Transcript of Are you Stuck in the Paycheck-to-Paycheck Grind?

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of The Ken Coleman Show, is my co-host today. In the 1860s, there was a famous poet, a lady named Sarah Hale, She was the editor of a book called Goodies Ladies' Book. She pinned the famous nursery rhyme, Mary Had a Little Lamb. For 17 years, beginning in 1846, she wrote to the President of the United States, and she was influential and known, so they would have received her letters. Plus, back then, people actually could just walk into the White House. It was a different world, of course. For 17 years, she would write to the President as a well-known figure, asking the President to formalize a day of Thanksgiving as a national holiday. In the middle of the Civil War, 18 months before the Civil War was to end, in 1863, Abraham Lincoln decided decided to do that. His Secretary of State, Seward, who wrote a lot of his speeches with Lincoln, Lincoln was known for his ability to speak, but Seward did a lot of his writing.

Seward wrote out the proclamation, and the President of the United States, Abraham Lincoln, declared that on October the third, 1863, that Thanksgiving is going to be a national holiday. Here's the proclamation. The year that is drawing towards its close has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies. To these bounties which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come. Others have been added which are of such extraordinary in nature that they cannot fail to penetrate and even soften the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever watchful providence of Almighty God. In the midst of a civil war of unequaled magnitude and severity, which has sometimes seemed to foreign states to invite and to provoke their aggression. Peace has been preserved with all nations. Order has been maintained. The laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed everywhere except in the theater of military conflict, while that theater has been greatly contracted by the advancing armies and navies of the Union. Needful diversions of wealth and of strength from the fields of peaceful industry to the national defense have not arrested the plow, the shuttle or the ship.

The ax has enlarged the borders of our settlements, and the mines as well of iron and coal as of the precious metals have yielded even more abundantly than heretofore. Population has steadily increased, notwithstanding the waste that has been made in the camp, the siege, and the battlefield. And the country, rejoicing in the consciousness of augmented strength and vigor, is permitted to expect continuance of years with large increase of freedom. No human counsel hath devised, nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the most high God, who, while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy. It has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemly, reverently, and be gratfully acknowledged as with one heart and one voice by the whole American people. I do, therefore, invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands to apart and observe the last Thursday of November next as a day of thanksgiving and praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the heavens. And I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly do to him for such singular deliverances and blessings.

They do also, with humble pertinence for our national perverseness and disobedience, commend to his tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged, and fervently employ the interposition of the Almighty hand to heal the wounds of the nation, and to restore it as soon as may be consistent with the divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquility, and union. In testimony whereof, I've here to set my hand and cause the seal of the United States to be affixed by President Abraham Lincoln. I read this every year, and I have for almost 30 years on Thanksgiving on this show because I'm a cornball and I love stuff like this. There's two things that never cease to strike me about this, Ken. One is, I just wish we could speak like this. Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's the only time of the year I get to use the word beneficent. I mean, what a word. That's a great word. The second thing is this is the President of the United States telling the nation to say thank you to God unashamedly, straight up.

That's what this holiday is. Thanksgiving and praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the heavens. Thank you, Lord.

What strikes me is the third sentence of this amazing piece as he's talking about, We've been in the midst of civil war, and certainly we're We're not experiencing that. But if we think about the last election season, then we've just come through, and we've been in the midst of a cultural war, certainly a divisive season. I'm struck by the fact that I'm very thankful today that, as he goes on to say, order has been maintained, laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed. Now, I don't know how much harmony is going to be around the Thanksgiving table around politics this year, but we are a peaceful nation, and I think we should be grateful for that, given the stakes and given the divisiveness. I'm struck by those words that are relevant today.

It's perspective. I mean, the time you look back, this lady for 17 years asked, she kept knocking on the door, knocking on the door, knocking on the door, and finally a president in the middle of the Civil War decides this is the thing. But that was Abraham Lincoln's unique spiritual position. He's square in the middle of this huge conflict and still stops and says, Oh, look at all blessings around us, and guess where they came from? We're going to stop and be thankful for that.

Thankful that he did this. This is a great tradition that we should be thankful for as well. We've been blessed mightily, this nation. When we look at the world picture. God has been good to us. Even Abraham Lincoln, in a time of unbelievable torment, of ripping a nation apart, family fighting against family, he was grateful for its goodness. Also, very positive as he looked forward there. A lot of positive vision he expressed.

Heal the wounds of the nation. Ask the Almighty hand to heal the wounds of the nation. It's a good word. It's a good word to remember right now. That's why I do it. What are you thankful for? That's your entry onto the show today. Yes, I'm a cornball, but it got my name on it, so I can do what I want to with it. This is the Ramsey Show.

This show is sponsored by Better Health. This month is all about gratitude, and most of us have people in our lives who we're grateful for. One of those people for me is the great Jean-Noël Thompson. He taught me how to be a dad, a husband, a professional, and had a balance caring for a bunch of people all at the same time. We all know if somebody else we can be grateful for, but there's one person that we often don't take time to thank, ourselves. We don't always acknowledge that we're surviving, that we're moving forward, and that we're working towards a better life and better relationships. In a world where everything's gone bonkers, it's not always easy. Here's my reminder to thank the people that you love, thank the people in your life, and thank you. Sometimes we need some professional help to talk to somebody trained to help us discover true gratitude for ourselves and others especially in the holiday season. That's why I recommend Betterhelp. Betterhelp is 100% online therapy, and you can talk with your therapist at any time so it's convenient for your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with the licensed therapist.

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Ken Coleman, Ramsey. Personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. What are you thankful for? Joe is going to start off this hour. Joe in Albany, New York. Joe, what are you thankful for?

Hey, Dave. I am thankful for God first and my 10-year-old daughter.

Awesome. What's her name? My daughter's name is Aubrey. Very cool. How can we help you today, sir?

I guess my question is centered around God. Main question is, does God want me or us to be wealthy? I wanted to ask you that because I feel like you have a pretty big business and you have ties to people who are in church. So maybe you could offer some biblical insight.

That way my finances and my spiritual life can be aligned a little bit more. Yeah. Okay. Well, there's two ends of the spectrum in the Christian world, both of which create an inaccurate teaching of scripture. One end of the spectrum we call the prosperity gospel that God wants you to be rich, and if you're not rich, you must not be right with God and all this stuff. That's not biblical. You can't back that up scripturally. The other end of the spectrum is that God says you have to be poor in order to be holy, and that's actually not scriptural either. That's a form of heresy called Nosticism. What actually happens is it's not really a spectrum between those two, but it's maybe a third point on a triangle off in a different direction. I was on a TV show with a pastor one time, and he asked me what he thought was an underhand pitch question. Is it okay for Christians to be wealthy? Kind of what you said. I said, No, we have to all be poor. It freaked him out because he thought I was going to say, Yes, it's okay to be wealthy.

But my point, and then I went on and expanded. Here's the true idea. God doesn't care if you're wealthy or if you're poor. He doesn't care one way or the other. All he wants is your heart. All he wants is your worship. If poverty gets in the way of your worship, that's a problem. If wealth gets in the way of your worship, that's a problem. That's stated by Paul in the New Testament, as a matter of fact, I've been well-rich and I've been poor. Lord, keep me from having one or the other if it gets in the way. If you remember reading that scripture, Joe, you probably have heard that. The point is that Those of us that are people of faith, that are people of the Book, believe that we don't own anything. We are merely managing it for God. He's the owner. We're the steward is the old English word that has been Christianized because it was in the King James Version of Scripture. We're merely a manager, so we don't own anything. We're managing it. Managing wealth is a privilege, it is a responsibility, and it's to be managed for the good of God and for his kingdom.

The first thing he says to do is to take care of your own household, feed that daughter, or you're worse than an unbeliever. It says a godly man leaves an inheritance to his children's children. That's not necessarily It's not necessarily just an inheritance of character, it's also an inheritance of money because Solomon built the temple, but he built the temple of God in Jerusalem with his father, David's money. David was prohibited from building the temple because of Bathsheba and his order of the murder of Uriah. But Solomon used David's inheritance to build a temple with. So a godly man leaves an inheritance to his children's children is fine. Of course, you don't want to leave an inheritance to your kids if they're misbehaving because you're just going to fund their misbehavior. But that's what we're talking about here. We've taught our kids that we're managing this money for the good of our family to eat, the good of our family to enjoy some of it, to be generous with. God loves a cheerful giver, says in scripture. So this continuous generosity. There's an indication all throughout New Testament and Old Testament to tie the 10th of your income as your baseline for your generosity, offerings above that.

We got a job when you get money and your job is to manage money, and then God gives you the directions on how to do that, How to manage his money. You take care of your own household, you're generous, you leave an inheritance, you stay out of debt, you build wealth. But this idea that I'm getting rich for me to be a snotty rich person, no. But are all rich people going to hell? No, that's heresy. Because anything that teaches that the blood of Jesus is not powerful enough to cover any sin is heresy. We're suggesting that a prostitute that comes to Jesus, a murderer that comes to Jesus can go to heaven, but a wealthy person that comes to Jesus can't. That's what the Nostics taught, and That's what some of these people who teach theology on Twitter think. Yeah, I've been torn between. Yeah, and it ends up you get this mixed message like you are spiritually inferior if you become successful. And yet you're not because the Bible says, The diligent prosper. What is diligence? It's excellence in the ordinary. You're good at your job. Do your work as unto the Lord, Colossians 3:23 says.

How would you do your work? You would do it wide open. Like, I'm working for Jesus. I'm going to go crazy, man. I'm going to leave it all on the field. If you're faithful with the little things, you're going to be given more to manage. If God was against wealth, why would he give you more to manage? That's Jesus's own mouth. There's all this biblical evidence that we're not supposed to worship wealth and that wealth can be dangerous because it can become an idol. But if we can maintain the distance from it as a manager instead of an owner, if you don't say, My, my, my, my, my, instead you go, I'm holding this with an open hand. What do you want me to do with it? It's yours. Then you're managing it. If you're faithful with the little things, you'll be given more to manage. Then you don't have to live under this ridiculous, communist, left-wing guilt trip for successful people. Then they try to put a Bible spin on it, which is really hilarious. But on the other hand, you're not better than someone else. I know some of the highest character, smartest people who are not wealthy.

You're not better than them if you're managing more money than they're managing. You just have more responsibility. Does that make any sense?

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. I didn't realize that there was two, I guess, crazy sides of each spectrum. Just knowing that God really doesn't care, it just matters where my heart is.

That tells me a lot. Yeah. He wants you. That's what he wants. He can give it. I always tell people, it's like people get so torqued out about this or that. Listen, I'm giving money to my church. Well, listen, if God wanted your money, he would just take it and there'd be a greasy spot where you were sitting. I mean, it's like he's not worried about the money. This is God. You got to think sometimes he's sitting up there, Ken, with Gabriel, just laughing at us. Absolutely.

I feel like after that sermon, there's only one thing to do, and I should take an offering right now. That was really good. Three points. We should have a little background music. Three points on a poem.

It was almost a Baptist thing.

I could do an altar call and a love offering at the same time. It's a rare talent, but some of us have it because of the amount of hours I've logged.

Since you're growing your hair out, that would probably fit. You could probably- Uh-oh.

Are you worried that I'm heading over to the health and wealth crowd with the longer locks?

I'm thinking, no, you keep slicking that on back there. I'm telling you.

Well, it's a new toupee. I'm trying to get it figured out. The glue, it's obnoxious. You got to really work it out. But yeah, I think it's a good word, Dave, and I love that he locked on to really, I think, the simple thing. If anybody has grasped me this for the first time, I think what you said in one line really captures the whole thing, and that is it's about your heart. Whether you have little money or you have a lot of money, it's about how you view the money. That's just really good theology, and it just cannot be. By the way, that's not debatable. It's about managing the money. There's too much scripture that just lays it out that we're stewards of everything it gives us. That's just a beautiful answer to that question. No guilt, no overth, just locking on what Dave said there, because that's about as strong a teaching on that as you'll get.

The 1% are all going to hell. Let me scare you about that one. If you make $38,000 a year, you're in the top 1% of income earners in the world. Whoops. You're not going to make it. If you believe that toxic, agnostic heresy, this is the Ramsey Show.

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Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Black Friday Week is going strong. Going so strong, we're going to run out of stuff, I think. Thank you all. We appreciate the number of you that have stepped into the store and have bought gifts that have meaning. When you give away, I mean, you can give them an ugly tire, you can give them a book, it'll change their life. These are choices, right? And so thank you for doing that. Best-selling books like the Total Money Makeover, Baby Steps Millionaires, Ken's John's book, Own Your Past, Change Your Future. Ken's Book, From Paycheck to Purpose, all $12 each. The total money makeover book, of course, has helped tens of millions of folks learn the step-by-step baby steps. Only $12. Ken's GetClear assessment is on sale as a part of our Black Friday sale, too. It's the perfect gift for someone who... This is the printout. When you take it, what you get. It's the perfect gift for somebody who feels stuck in their career. It helps identify your unique talents, passions, and mission, and helps you outline a good direction for where you're going to go with your career.

A lot of people rethinking things here in all the change that we're going through. Here we come towards the end of the year. A lot of people resetting and going, Hey, I'm hopeful I'm thinking I need to make my move now. Well, that will help you do it. Don't wait. Check out our Black Friday deals, ramseysolutions. Com/store. Ramseysolutions. Com/store. Kalamazoo, Michigan. Darryl is with us. Hey, Darryl, What's up? Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. I'm grateful for my wife, my children, and I'm grateful for his forgiveness so that I can say I'm debt-free. Hey, I love it. Good for you. All right, perfect answer. How can we How can you help today? I'm calling about one of my children who got married this last year, this last summer, to someone who has not got a green card. He's grateful for the United States because he wants to live here and make money But she's working on getting his green card, and the paperwork to do it requires her to have a long time of wages, like over a year's worth of consistent wages. She just graduated, so she doesn't have that. It's a 10-year commitment, and they're asking us, my wife and I, to sign up for this and be a co-sponsor with him to get his green card.

We're looking at retiring in about three to four years. We're on the bubble with what to do, and we know that it's a relationship-impacting thing, too. We thought we'd ask your advice. What is it you're promising when you do that? They have to make 125% of the poverty wage, and anything short of that, we have to true up. Okay. That's about $28,000 a year he has to make. I don't know if it's her and him or just him. We're trying to get that clear through immigration lawyer. We just don't know. Okay. And they have to file paperwork to prove that each year, I assume? He does. Yeah, That's what I mean. That's part of our questions, too, is do they come back and ask us for our wages each year? I don't know how that works yet. We're trying to figure that out. I want to know how they prove that. In other words, how tight is the mathematical audit on this? Or is it just like, I promise to do it, and we keep going? Then the second thing is, how long have you known the young man? It's been over a year. He's very kind-hearted.

He's very proud. He doesn't like to take money Where does he come from? Which country? He comes from Jamaica. Okay. All right. Is he industrious? Ambitious? Very. Yeah, very ambitious, very industrious. He's been He's working under the table and he's been doing really well financially, paying his way before she even came into his life. Okay. If you're going to put a percentage on it, it sounds like you're going to say 90 or 95% chance he covers this and you never have to. Correct. That's my take on it, but it's that fraction of % that my wife and I, we probably are on different ends of the spectrum here. I mean, really, what you're doing is you're betting on him. You think, Ken? That's what it sounds like.

Yes, but I'm just sitting here going, and I tend to be old school on this. I think he can do this. I mean, it has to happen. I mean, it's all in. You guys don't even really need to be in this conversation, in my opinion. I don't know what end of the spectrum you're on.

They have to sign promising that he's going to do it. Oh, okay. That's what the sponsorship is, if I understood you. Is that what you said, Darryl? That's correct. If he doesn't go do it, then Darryl's got to write a Correct.

That's the only way. Are you positive of that, that the only way he could get his green card is if somebody else signs this?

Correct. Positive.

That's really new to me. That is a wrinkle I was unaware of. If that's the only way...

I mean, you're looking at him. Are you willing to take this risk on him? You know him a whole lot better than I do, obviously. Everything you've had to say about him is positive. Sounds like a go-getter. He is. My experience with folks from Caribbean countries is they're like a Gen Z person. They're either the best on the planet or they're the laziest on the planet.

A quick clarifying question. If he were to not do this, is the option for him to go back and you not have to pay anything, or is the US government coming after you regardless because you signed the document?

If he goes back, the agreement It is over.

Yeah. But that means my daughter would go with him, and we don't want her to leave the country. I get it. That's why I asked that clarifying question. I'm just real curious. Where's your wife? You said opposite end of the spectrum. Give us who's on what spectrum, on which side.

She's really worried that we're going to get caught. We just paid our house off, so we are in baby stuff seven, and she doesn't want to have to look back and have an obligation. We understand the freedom and comfort of that green grass in the yard. We don't want to be in a position where we are pulled back by something. I'm going to have a real strong conversation with him and her that's going to be uncomfortable, that's so strong. I'm going to kill you, too, if I have to write a check. You guys don't understand how pissed off I'm going to be. I'm going to get all up in their grill so that we set the table appropriately where now they're not only scared of the US government, they're a little scared of you. All right. Got it. And by God, then they'll go, Dad told us he's going to kill us. We got to go get… You better be driving Uber, man. You better be cutting some grass, cleaning some toilets, or whatever it is you got to do to make some dadgum money here. Don't tell me I'm unemployed for six months. It's not an option.

Dad's going to kill us. I'm going to have a It's a conversation that's very, very blunt and very strenuous so that I don't have to have one later.

I agree, Dave. I just put myself in- But I'm going to do it. I sign it, but under the agreement that you're leaving. If you don't do what you're supposed to do, you're leaving the country. I don't want my daughter to leave, but this is not my problem, not my financial problem. You have to go figure it out. Because I think it provides a safety net that I don't like. I don't like it. I understand the government- It feels like cosigning in a sense.

It very much does. It's a contingent liability, and that's what his wife's worrying about. But again, it has everything to do with the quality of young man this is. If you smell a rat, just don't do it. Just don't do it. Maybe you're the one breaks them up then by doing that because he's got to go back now. I don't know. I'm not an immigration specialist, but I would be willing to... My sons-in-law are both very industrious, very ambitious, very successful in their own right, nothing to do with me. I could easily have bet on them in the old days and I've been fine. That's right. That's what we're looking at here. You're going to be fine if that's what you're dealing with. But this guy better be a stud. That's all I'm saying.

I agree because I looked at that young man and say, Now, I'll take care of her. But if I have to take care of her, you're nowhere in the picture, pal. You're back in the homeland. I just don't like this. I don't like this, but I don't like a lot of things the government comes up with. It's a stupid idea. Pass a citizenship test and give him the dadgum green card. It's a whole other issue.

If he joins the military, he goes away. If he can't make the payment, he has to go join the military. That's a promise.

I like that. I could be good with that.

This is The Ramsey Show.

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Well, it is the season. In a few weeks, we're going to be doing our special Giving Edition of The Ramsey Show, where we want to hear stories from you about how you have given Generously this season. Maybe you tipped a waitress $100 or $1,000 or bought Thanksgiving dinner for a family who couldn't afford one or whatever you did. I want to hear your generosity stories, or maybe you've been on the receiving end of generosity. Someone came along and changed your life or helped you or gave you lift. I want to hear both kinds of stories to inspire giving during this season. It's our annual Giving Edition. If you want to be part of it, go to ramseysolutions. Com/ask Put giving in the subject line. Put a little bit about your story, and our team will get in touch with you and make you one of the storytellers on our Giving Edition. It's coming up on December 18th. Remember, we're celebrating living like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. Marybeth in Virginia Beach. Hey, Marybeth, what's up?

Hi, good afternoon. I am thankful for God always providing, even in the hard times. Then I'm also super thankful for you, Dave, you, Ken, and the rest of the Ramsey personalities and how you are helping people to see what the true American dream is, which is to live debt-free so that you can do what you guys do, live like no one else, but you can give like no one else.

Very cool. Thank you. How can we help today?

Okay. I guess I'll give you the question first, and then whatever the details you'd like. I am trying to figure out whether we should sell our house soon, hold on to it for a couple more years, and then when we do sell it, do we rent or do we buy again? The reason is that we are including the mortgage about $440,000 in debt. Let's see. $440,000 $7,000 is a HLAC and $14,700 in cars, $38,000 in credit cards and personal loans, and then $339,000 in the mortgage. My whole salary, my husband makes 6,000 a month after taxes. I am self-employed. I make about 4,400, but then all of my 4,400 is going towards It's paying down debt and for estimated taxes. My whole salary is basically going right up to- Paying down the debt you mentioned? Yes, all of that debt. I am paying I pay weekly on the various credit cards.

So you got a $10,000 a month take home pay?

Yes.

Are the two of you working on this together?

Well, I'm definitely a Ramsey addict. My husband is hands off the finances, and I have tried to get him involved. I tried to get him on the Every Dollar app. It didn't work out.

He turns his whole check over to you to do with what you will?

Yes. I pay down all the debt, I pay all the bills, and I actually have a side hustle. My 4,400 is- Okay, so you have a $10,000 You have a month income, and you need to clean up, what, 50?

I'm sorry. About $100,000. About $100,000 in debt, not counting your mortgage.

Right.

Okay. Why can't you do that in less than three years?

Well, I can. That's the best thing. In about 32 months, 30 months, I've calculated it out, I can get rid of everything but the mortgage. But here's the thing. If we were to move, I could wipe it all out and have $100,000 to start funding our retirement because the clincher is that we have zero dollars for retirement. How old are you? I'm 58, and he's 61.

Well, the clincher is in three years, you're going to start saving for retirement.

My thought, though, was, and that's why I wanted your opinion- Well, you're going to be homeless, and you're with your thought.

Your thought is, I want to be homeless with $100,000 in a paper bag.

Well, not homeless. We buy another place.

And you go back in debt.

Well, but the mortgage would be... If we put the $100,000 into a new place that's smaller and down size, then the mortgage would be lower and we would have zero debt other than that. And then my $4,000.

Do you like your house?

I do, but it's a lot of work.

I think you need to keep your house, and I think you need to invite your husband to carry the weight of your household with you. Your shoulders tired from carrying it by yourself because he worst and handed it all and set it on your back.

Yeah, and I think that's my biggest thing about why I'm pushing towards selling is because I feel overwhelmed by the debt.

Yeah, because you're carrying the whole thing by yourself, and I think you need to invite your husband to step up and shoulder part of this weight.

I wish you could sit at the dinner table with him because I have tried every which way from Sunday, and I just don't know how to get him on board.

I would say it just like that. I'm tired of you being a wuss. I'm tired of being the only grown up in the family that carries the weight. Thank you for handing over your check and then me treating you like a little boy. I'm not your mommy. I need some help carrying this.

Absolutely.

My wife says that similar thing last night when we're cleaning up dishes after Thanksgiving dinner. Hey, wuss, get in the kitchen and help me. I look like your slave over here. That isn't exactly how she said it, but that was what the look meant, right, Ken? You know her. You know the look?

They were strong inference. That's what I'm hearing.

I mean, you just got to communicate, Nancy. This is not a bad guy. No, he does not. He loves his wife, and he does not know. He does not grasp, because you've not been clear with him, how much this is stressing you because he's not emotionally carrying the responsibility of this household with you.

Correct.

You're tired. He needs to hear it very clearly from you. Then you guys need to roll up your sleeves together and plow right through this and keep your stinking house. Then get your retirement started. You got 15 years to do a retirement plan, you'll be okay. You're going to have some money for retirement. You have a paid-for house by then, and you keep the house. If you want to sell the house later, that's fine, but you're selling the house for the wrong reasons.

Yeah. I love being really honest with him about the stress because I think he has stress, and he's unloaded all of his stress onto you because I don't think he likes talking about it. That's why, Dave, you so beautifully, years ago, and you came up with this whole plan, you got the nerd, right? You got the spender. I think this is a guy who he just has zero nerd in him. Because he doesn't, there's a natural tension there, and he just shoves it over to her. She has to shoulder it all. I think if he could acknowledge, I know how I feel thinking about doing this. It's unfair that you're the only person feeling that way, and I'm stress-free.

I need you to man up.

Yeah, he needs to learn how to deal with his own stress around talking about money.

I need you to man up and help. I need you to help. It took 43 years for Sharon and I to get that figure somewhere along that line. We figured out that... She figured out I'm not a mind reader. She just said it out loud. Then once she found that out, she says it pretty loud.

It's so true.

But I invited it, so I would rather at least know what's going on. If you go, Okay, why are you in there throwing dishes? Oh, because I'm supposed to be helping. You should have just said that instead of breaking everything. Okay. Right. Drop the pan 14 inches above the sink. What's wrong?

Nothing. Nothing. And of course, guys aren't smart. But ladies, for just all women out there, please take this from a man. We are not the smartest people in the world, but we are not stupid. We know when something's wrong. You act like it. We just don't know what to do. We don't know what it is. How about sparing us all and just tell us what it is? My personal favorite day, I'm so grateful for Stacey's learning to work through this phrase, but I love when she says, Hey, we need to go weed the lawn. It's something that she never does, but it's always, Hey, we need to do this. I'm sitting there going, Here's what I'd prefer. I'd prefer that you just ask me to go do it. Because for that slight moment-I get pissed off.

Yeah. Because we know you're not happy. I know because there's no, What do you mean, we? You got a mouse in your pocket? Right.

When are you going out there and pulling up weeds? There's a couple in the front row there. We've hit a nerve. We've hit a nerve. There's no we. Don't ever say we need to do this.

Well, you got to say we about something. We teach people to say our money.

About the budget. We need to do the budget. That's allowable.

Because we are going to work on it together. It's not yet. That's the only we. Really, honestly, 98% of this whole thing here is, in your case, Marybeth, I would just sit down and have a real clear conversation with him, and I think that's going to take a lot of weight off your shoulders, and you're going to sprint right through this and keep your house. That's what I would do on it. Happy Thanksgiving. This is the Ramsey Show. Do you ever feel like you're finally making progress towards your goals only to get quickly distracted by something else in your feed? Well, that's why we created the Ramsey Network app, your single source for content that keeps you motivated. The Ramsey Network app is designed to keep you laser-focused on reaching your goals. Loaded with over 7,000 hours of Ramsey shows, this free app is the best place for uninterrupted content and no distractions. Plus, you can search specific questions to get more personalized content in seconds. So for the days you need some extra motivation, you'll have proven advice at your fingertips. It's time to get serious about your goals and shut out the distractions for good.

Simply search Ramsey Network in the App Store or Google Play. If you're listening on a podcast, just click the link in the show notes to download our free Ramsey Network app today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show. We help people Build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one, best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, is my co-host today. Happy Thanksgiving to you, America. What are you thankful for? You got a lot to be thankful for. You ought to really just make a list of your blessings because it's a long list. Really. Thanksgiving's a thing, and we're so happy you're here. What are you thankful for? Nancy is with us in Tampa, Florida. Nancy, what are you thankful for?

I'm thankful for every day I still have with my husband.

Oh, that's good. Cool. Tell me your story. How can we help?

Well, my husband and I have been together around nine years, married seven. There's a significant age difference. When we got married, he had five grandchildren, and they insisted on a prenup, which I didn't mind. I had my own house, he had his own house, my own investments, his own investments. No biggie. Well, about a year and a half after we got married, he got diagnosed with dementia. I had to quit my job early and take care of him at 62. I started doing my social security early. I still had investment checks that come in from my investments. But his daughter pays all the bills as well as house, and I still take care of mine. In the meantime, I have my house.

You have your house? You have your old house?

No, I just sold it in June. I owned it with my mother, and she was getting elderly, and she moved in when my sister. It was too much house for her after I got married, so we sold it. By the time we paid off the debts, split the profits, I have about 60,000 left.

Okay, and so you have 60,000 there, and you have investments of how much?

I have about 200,000 investments.

And you're 62?

I'm 62. Okay. I'm drawing from my investment account, I get about 1,800 a month, and then I have 1,600 a month from my security.

How old is your husband?

He's 90. Okay.

He's not doing well, I take it.

No, I don't need this much time left. I'm sorry.

Very sorry. That leaves you like his house that you're living in is in the prenup, I guess, huh?

Correct. The kids are going to sell it eventually, and I don't know what they're going to do with But my question is, I live in Florida, rent's super high. Do I try to rent? Do I try to buy something small, like a manufacturing home, a condo, with a small mortgage? With what I got left.

Well, I would try to buy something and work towards getting it paid off. Obviously, the least expensive thing you buy, the faster you get it paid off. Because the largest item in anyone's, not anyone, but most people's budget is housing. If you're renting your 64 for the next 25 to 30 years, every single year of your life, your housing cost is going to go up.

Correct.

If you own, you're locking it down, and the only thing that goes taxes and insurance. If you own and get it paid for, the largest line item in your budget is no longer the largest line item in your budget. From a stability standpoint in your life, I want you to get something and get it paid off as quick as you can. Then you can live on a lot less and have a good quality life from that point forward.

Right. Okay, well, that was my question. I was debating.

What did you do for a living? What were you doing and what profession were you in before all this happened?

I was a medical office manager for 20 years.

Do you feel like… I hate to think too much in the future, but this is a reality. Do you think you can get back into that world and make a good income?

I'm not 100% sure. I've got serious back issues. I've got some disabilities.

Okay.

But then-Well, if any income you can add to the equation makes the equation run better, that's obvious, right? Exactly. Yeah. That's something to consider if it's not exactly that field or some version of that field of Virtual Assistant.

I was thinking that same thing, Dave, because Nancy, here's what we're trying to encourage you with. You've got a lot of administrative giftingness, you're organized, you've got a lot of experience you can play with there and look at opportunities to work from home. Even if you're bringing in So somewhere between $45,000 to $65,000, it's going to go a long way here as you start to move into the next chapter.

So the prenup leaves you absolutely nothing?

Pretty much, yeah.

Now, what's pretty much mean?

As far as I know, that's it. I have 30 days after he goes to move out. Okay.

So it covers death as well as divorce?

Yeah, pretty much.

Okay. All right.

We pretty much live separately as far as finances goes since day one. I mean, I've had my bills here today. When I sold my house, I paid off 30,000 in debt. I still owe 10. So I'm concerned. Just go ahead and pay that off and it would leave me 50,000. Oh, definitely. But I don't want to pay it off too quickly.

No, go ahead and pay it today. Okay. One less thing to worry about. You got that 50, you got the other 200, and you've got some ability to earn an income doing something. Those are your mathematical benefits as you walk through a very sad and tragic situation. What it amounts to is when she signed the prenup, she felt like she was more independent than she actually is. It left her in a problem. Honestly, I mean, I get the idea. I get the concept. I don't know how wealthy her husband is. We didn't get into that. But do you have a feeling that he's pretty wealthy?

That's why it's so stringent.

No, I think he was solving for the grandkids and kids raising Cain about him getting married. That's his way of getting them off his back. That's what I'm guessing. I don't know. Just got that running down my spine right now. The other thing is most prenups allocate something to the person, not nothing. That's an unusual-Out within 30 days is stringent. Yeah, it's unusual. It's unusual to get absolutely zero. That's all, of course, based on the fact that she thought she was in better shape than she actually is, financially. She's not in destitute, but she's not got $2 million of her own, and she's 62. There you I think you're looking at something to earn some income. I think it's going to make your life a whole lot better. It'll help you open up the next chapter of your book as well, because you've been defined by this whole thing for a while. It's time for a second act. Act 2, Click or Act 3. Click. This is The Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, Oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through, how am I going to pay my bills in the middle- How am I going to eat next week? Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. It's terrible. Life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

It doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud, and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of a stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282, or go to zander. Com.

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The Ramsey Question of the Day is brought to you by YreFi. If you've made student loan mistakes with zeros on the end, we're not judging you. We are saying, do something about it. Contact Yrefi. They were created Specifically for people with defaulted private student loans. If that's you, go to yrefi. Com/ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y. Com/ramsey. Might not be in all states.

Today's question comes from Mary in New Mexico. My husband and I have been listening to you for 30 years. Being empty nesters now, we have found that we had to pull back the reins a little bit, went back to using an envelope for groceries. We also eliminated credit cards and mostly use cash. The one expense that my husband refuses to use cash for is golf in all caps, with an exclamation point. He has been an avid golfer for 40 years, being the main breadwinner. He feels somewhat justified and deserving to continue this hobby. He never remembers what he spent, so we're constantly having to adjust for extra money that's coming out because he changes everything at the club, and then we get an invoice. Could I please get your expert advice on dealing with this type of scenario? Well, I was a member of a local club for a while. One of the things I'm very thankful for, we had a corporate membership at a great golf course here, and Stacey and I had to put this in the line item. So he's got to put this in the budget. If it's not going to be cash, because I understand the way these clubs do this, he knows what it costs to golf.

He knows what it costs to get a cart if they were adding that in. He knows what the taxes are on that. He also knows what it costs for a Twix at the turn or a turkey sandwich. So these are things that are all very controllable And he's got to play ball. And so you know what it costs to play golf beyond your membership, whatever. So he's got to put that in there, and you guys got to come to an agreement on this is what we can spend as we're having to tighten up right now. He doesn't have to give up golf, but he's going to have to maybe cut back. So maybe that's rounds, maybe it's a drink after the round, whatever it is. He's just got to be disciplined with it, and it's pretty easy to track. He's just not wanting to do it because he's never had to. That's my take, Dave. I don't know what you think about that.

Well, there's a difference between continuing the hobby and she wants him to quit. It feels like- This thing's dripping in, I hate golf, wife language.

Yeah, the all caps gives it away.

There's a difference between he has a right to continue his hobby because he's the red winner. He says that's a different argument than, Hey, you can't buy all the expensive stuff and play.

That's right.

Because we're having to tighten up. We can put a line item to this, and we can manage it if he chooses to be responsible. There's a difference between choosing to be responsible and choosing to play golf. That's right. I mean, you You can be irresponsible, not bother with it, which is what he's doing. I think step one for him, for you, is not try to get him to quit. It's try to get him to rein in the additional expenses, whether you're buying food or drink or whatever he's doing while he's there. What can we do to limit that and put a number on it that we're not going to go over? That's very doable. It's very doable. But I think there's more going on here than the golf capital letters, all exclamation points. It's pretty much, I hate golf, wife language. I saw it.

Oh, no question about it. In his defense, you don't walk into the golf club with your cash envelope.

They bill it to you. Well, a lot of courses don't... I mean, if you're a member of something, they won't... No. You have to sign.

Yeah, that's exactly how it works.

You don't have a choice. It's the only way to handle it.

But it is trackable.

But that doesn't mean you can't manage what you're spending, and you should. He needs to be responsible, and you probably need to lighten up on the golf heating. Sarah is in Detroit. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi. Thank you.

What's up?

Well, I've got a question around an EIDL business loan that was taken out. It's an economic disaster relief loan in 2020 for a business that has since gone under due to the pandemic. I spoke with two attorneys. They both said, I don't owe on the loan because it wasn't personally guaranteed. It was in the name of a business that went under. But I am a Christian, and I'm grateful for the blood of our Messiah. Hallelujah. Amen. God's law seems to say differently. I'm going to negotiate with the SBA. I've been given the paperwork to do that, and I'm just wondering if you have any advice on how to negotiate, and then depending on what that number is, how I should go about paying it.

You don't have the money.

Well, I don't have the money for the whole loan, no.

But I have the money for a portion. Okay, how much is the whole loan? Okay, $25,000. All right. $25,000?

Yeah, I have 15. Well, actually, it's $24.

Okay, and you have how much money? $2,9, $2,9. And you have how much money?

$1,500. Okay. My emergency fund.

Okay. Well, there's two or three issues. Okay, from an ethics standpoint, the government gave you money for disaster relief for your business that failed, and it's not got a personal guarantee, and you're not liable. The government forgives that. From an ethics standpoint, you are not doing anything wrong by just simply accepting the forgiveness. Because this is not a bank loan from a... The bank is not going to get tagged on this. If it's got an SBA label on it, the SBA is going to cover it. Because this is a government thing that is waived in this instance. Another For example, would be like, if you have a federally insured student loan and you become permanently disabled, the terms of those loans are there for given if you're disabled. You are not under an ethical Christian obligation to pay it anyway. The term of the loan was that it's forgiven if you're disabled. The terms of the loan on this are it's not personally guaranteed because it was given to a business in the midst of a disaster relief situation. Therefore, they did not require personal guarantees because it was virtually a grant is what it was, and it didn't work, obviously.

It did not turn your business around. I'm going to ask you to spend some time in prayer and make sure you're hearing from God, not childhood guilt, about what your Christian obligation is here. If you really feel like God is telling me to pay this, then for goodness' sakes, pay it. Not really.

No.

But if you feel… That's okay. I've been in those situations. I've paid stuff that people look at me like I'm a nut for having gone back and paid that. But I felt like God said to do it. Then other times, I don't feel any tinge of guilt at all. I'm just done. This is the deal. It's the way the deal went. Sorry. Good luck. That's where this one could fall. But I never step in between someone and the Holy spirit. That's a dangerous place to stand.

Yeah, I guess I should give you a little more context. I got to a point where I was three months to fall because I didn't feel like I did owe it. I don't lie. I do my best to follow God's law. I got on the phone with the SBA, and I learned everything that they do and how it wasn't personally guaranteed. It goes My information goes to the Department of Treasury after… The SBA lets it go, Department of Treasury gets my information. Then I started to feel fear, and I know that's not of God. Then I talked to my family and started to get advice just from other people. Then I actually suggested I called you. I'm calling you.

Well, I think you're telling me you're doing this out of an emotional trip, not out of a Holy spirit leading. I think that's what you just said.

Yeah, I think so.

I'm not sure. But again, I'm not going to stand between you and the Holy spirit. If God tells you to do something, kiddo, you go do it. Dave does not get a Trump card on that. I don't get to lay down on that hand. You got to figure that one out. But if you're just scared, it's the government. Tell them to stick it. That's pretty easy for me. This is the Ramsey Show. You want to leave happy memories for your loved ones when you pass away? Not a mess. Your family will be grieving, so don't make them spend days trying to access your computer or sift through drawers full of junk. That's why you need a Knockbox. Knockbox is a complete home organization system and estate planning tool that helps you organize all of your accounts, personal history, wills, estate planning documents, and all other info in one place. Inside each kit are 15 categories covering everything from life insurance policies and funeral plans to your dog's vet and the code for your storage unit across town. The best thing about your knockbox is the checklist that tell you everything to add to each folder so your loved ones won't have to guess where things are.

So this holiday season, make sure you have some space in your budget for a knockbox. They'll be offering exclusive deals each day this week, plus a special Black Friday promotion. Go to knockbox. Com/ramsey to save on a system that helps you get it all together. That's knockbox, N-O-K-box. Com. Ramsey. Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here, and I got a big announcement. I'm coming to a city near you live on the Money and Relationships Tour with Dr. John Deloney. This is the most interactive event we've ever done. You get to decide what we talk about. You do not want to miss this. We'll be coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fortworth, and Kansas City in April and May of 2025. Get your tickets and more information at ramseysolutions. Com/tour. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, and we invite you to drop by and watch the show anytime. We do the show live live Monday through Friday from 1:00 to 4:00, central time on the glass. We usually have 50 to 200 folks coming by and eating some homemade chocolate chip cookies and great coffee all on us, and they get to watch the show.

In that Same lobby, we put a little stage called the Debt Free Stage, where hundreds now, thousands of people have done debt free screams. That includes Matthew and Jody are with us today. Hey, guys. Happy Thanksgiving. Hi. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. Welcome. Where do you live?

We live in South Bend, Indiana.

Very nice. How much debt have you paid off?

We paid off $153,000 in three years.

Way to go. Range of income during that time?

We started at 162,000, and we ended at 192,000.

Okay, very cool. What do you all do for a living?

I'm a high school teacher. I teach history, economics, and a little course called Ramsey's Foundations and Personal Finance.

Love it. I work for a dental supply manufacturer and solutions company, and I oversee their service department. Very cool. All right, so, Jody, how long have you been teaching Foundations and Personal Finance?

I think I've taught it three years, two times a year.

Now, when you're working a get-out-of-debt journey and you're having to stand up in front of high school students, that's got to change the intensity.

It does. I think it gives the a better perspective on this is possible. You can really do this.

You shared your story with them.

I've shared my story. Matthew often tells me, I share too much with my students. You overshare. I overshare. They know everything. I can't wait to tell them that I did my debt-free scream.

Oh, make them watch it. Oh, well. We'll play it in class. Absolutely. Were the students... I mean, high school students are brutal sometimes. Were they encouraging or were they messing with you or what?

Very encouraging, yeah. They're super excited about this whole process. They're very excited about the fact that we're going to be debt-free. I think they're very excited about their journey into adulthood and walking the path debt-free as well. It's been an amazing thing.

What debt was the $153,000?

It was our mortgage.

Oh, you're weird people.

Yeah, we're really weird. House and everything paid for. House and everything, yeah.

What's the house worth?

The house is probably worth, Matthew, what do you say?

Conservatively, five. Okay. Million or 100? Unfortunately, we'll stick with 100. Just checking. South Bend, I'm just checking.

I want to ask you about the students and the interaction with them. Obviously, high school kids have a lot of anxiety. Yes. How old are these kids that you're teaching this classroom?

I have all juniors and seniors.

Okay, perfect for my question. That's when they're in this vice grip that culture has put on these kids to choose a college, then choose a job, and they're freaking out. They just I've never see more anxiety than this time in history in that age group. I'm curious, when they start to get it, you're teaching them the foundation, and when they start to get it, do you see the anxiety drop as it relates to money? I'm just curious your take.

Yeah, I think the idea that you can walk this path debt-free, it frees them in a way that other paths don't. When they think, Well, I don't necessarily have to go to that big name college and take out all this debt. I can find a path, and I can find a career I love, even if that doesn't mean going to college. I think it really opens a lot of doors for them. The idea that maybe not college is an okay choice, that really frees them to do what they really want to do and have an amazing life debt-free.

That's fascinating.

That's some actual real common sense coming from a world-class high school teacher. Well done. Thank you. Very, very well done. What got you guys plugged into this whole Ramsey thing? Is God, we're going to knock out our house.

Yeah, well, I think so. Really, it's all Matthew's fault that we found you, Dave. You want to tell that part of it?

Yeah. Just years ago, heard you on the radio, started listening, and You reminded me of the Southern preacher when I used to live down in Tennessee. Just started listening to this guy. It makes a lot of sense. Asked Jody if she would maybe read the book along with me, and it was a total money makeover is what we got into. We got gazelle intense. We knocked out consumer debt very, very quickly. Then we went on autopilot for a little while with a 15-year mortgage. I was actually very unhappy with the work I was doing. We made the decision that I would step away from my work, and we were pretty safe by it. We had a fully-funded emergency fund. At the time, economy was booming, and I also was getting offers from headhunters every week. I was like, This is great. On January 31st, 2020, I left my job, and something happened with the entire world almost immediately after that. You have the worst possible timing.

Murphy moved in, barely solidly in our house. To the whole world at that point. Yeah, it really did. We just lived in that for a couple of months. I was obviously teaching virtually, and then we thought, Okay, well, you're not getting a new job right now. How do we make this work? We gotten really good at budgeting. Matthew is a very good budget grocery shopper. We found that out. We ate more spam than I'd like to emit during that time.

Mustard or no mustard? Mustard. Yeah, good call. I grew up on it. I had to ask.

Good man. I started doing grocery delivery during the pandemic, and so we were able to pay our mortgage just with the grocery delivery that I was making. Matthew started delivering pizzas, and we found a way to never touch our emergency fund. Matthew didn't find another job in your field until about a year.

Wow.

February 2021, you got a new job. We said, Man, the only thing that stressed us during the mortgage. We're getting rid of it. Let's get it done. Let's be done with it. I'm the budget nerd. I'm the every dollar nerd. I'm the one that's on the budget all the time. Matthew started playing with- The payoff calculator all the time.

A Saturday Every morning, I'm looking at the Ramsey mortgage payoff calculator and like, If we threw an extra this on it, we threw this on it, and three years later, knocked it out. I love it. Way to go. How does it feel to be free?

It's absolutely amazing. The freedom that we have now to just do whatever we want to do is amazing.

Take your shoes off, walk through the backyard. The grass feels different. Yes. It's yours. It is quite a life lesson you've lived in front of your students. Thank you for doing that. Yes. Yeah. Thank you. For those of you that don't know what she's talking about, we have a high school curriculum that's now been taught to almost seven million students nationwide and almost 48% of the high schools. We've got wonderful teachers and administrators and sponsors that pay for it to go into these schools all over America. Of course, teachers like Jody right here that are world-class. We all remember teachers like Jody that were the good teachers in high school, and we all remember the teachers that sucked and that were just mailing it in. We always get the good ones. They're the ones that want to teach foundations because they love the idea of taking common sense to their students. The students like the material, don't they?

They really do. I have to say that George is their favorite. They absolutely love George.

George is our favorite, too.

How can he not be, right?

They like George better than you and better than me. I've got too much of a dad vibe, so I'm not surprised by that at all.

I got kids their age, so George is super cool and fun. I love that.

Well, the good news is that they actually engage. But I remember taking algebra and I'm going, What is this? Calculus. I'm like, Unless I'm an engineer, what am I going to be using this for? I really have never run a calculus formula since the senior in high school.

I can't even spell calculus.

The Pythagorean theorem doesn't come up much. Another one I can't spell. But I'll tell you what, balancing a checkbook and staying out of debt, having an emergency fund, knowing how to do a budget, that comes up every dead gum day. You're teaching them common sense, and they know that. They do. That's why it's popular. Way to go. I'm proud of you all. Thank you. Thank you so much. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is?

I think intentionality is the key. There it is. Just being focused and working the plan.

Matthew and Jody, house and everything. South Bend, Indiana, 153,000 paid off in three years. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one.

We're dead free.

Yeah, baby. Yeah, that's how it's done. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, guys, it's Rachel Cruz. And guess what? It's my favorite time of year. The lights, the music, the decoration. I mean, I love it all. And as a natural spender like myself, it's really easy easy to overspend. And I want to do all the things and give my family the holidays they'll always remember. And at the same time, I don't want to look back at my bank account in January and think, Oh, what did I do? So that's why I use the EveryDollar budgeting app. It helps me plan for all of my spending, and that's what a budget is. Then once I have my plan in place, I don't have to worry about overspending. I am free to spend guilt-free and have fun doing it. Plus, with EveryDollar, you can customize your budget however you want. So Whether it's buying gifts, hosting dinners, or even turning your living room into a winter wonderland, EveryDollar helps you plan for it all. So you guys go out and create some great holiday memories with your family without the stress of overspending. Download the EveryDollars app for free today. Go download it today.

Well, the Ramsey Black Friday sale is going gangbusters. Thank you guys for all of your interest. We're not going to run out, but we're watching it. Thank you. Meaningful gifts for family and friends as low as $8, best-selling books like the Total Money Makeover or Baby Steps Millionaires for just $12, audiobooks and ebooks of everything, $8, the Rachel Cruz Wallet and Black Camel Brown and champagne are on sale. Questions for humans conversation cards start at $12. Rachel's brand new children's book that just came out last week is there, plus the original two books. There's three in the trilogy. All of this is there at ramseysolutions. Com/store, and there's a big sale going on. Click the link in the description. If you're on YouTube or podcast or go to ramseysolutions. Com/store. Reminder that this is the last segment of the show that you hear on podcast on YouTube, unless you jump over to the Ramsey Network app. Every day, the third segment of the show is on the Ramsey Network app, and a lot of other goodies and interviews and and early arrivals of early releases of things are there. It's completely free. Ramsey Network app.

You can get it in the app store at Google Play or Apple, of course. We want you to check it out. You can ask questions there. You can organize and search by... You can search some of the calls that have come in by subject. A lot going on with this app, so be sure and check it out. It's completely free. There is no subscription, no salesman will call. There is no upgrade. There's nothing. It's just there. So check it out, the Ramsey Network app. And that's where we will go in just a few minutes. In the meantime, let's talk to Elise in Colorado Springs. Hi, Elise. How are you? I'm good. How about you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I'm calling because I'm in Baby Step 2. I make $96,000 a year and have about $25,000 left in debt, which I should be debt-free by June. Good. I'm single. Thank you. I'm single and a full-time student Doing my master's degree in social work and have a year and a half left of that.

Master's degree in what?

Master's in social work.

Social work. Okay, cool. Good for you.

It's going to be great. I get to serve and help people. It's going to be awesome. My question is, do I need to buy a house? I currently live in an apartment. Do I need to buy a house? And if so, when would I do that? Then also, since I am single, do I need to save the six months of emergency fund after I'm debt-free? Or Can I do less?

No, you need the six months. You need the umbrella in case it storms, and that's Baby Step 3. If you're going to buy a home, the soonest you would do that is what we call Baby Step 3B, which is after your emergency fund is in place, you start saving for a down payment on the house. That's the soonest. There's not a requirement in the short term that anyone buy a home. I'm a strong proponent of you owning a home as a long term issue because they go up in value and you're stabilizing the most expensive line item in your budget, which is housing. If you rent for the next 50 years, you can count on 100% of those years, the rent will go up. Every year. That is true. You're going to have stress added to your life from just being displaced by a landlord deciding that they're going to sell the house or they just move you out or whatever because you're not in control because you're not the owner. So your stress level goes down, the line item in your budget stabilizes, and it goes up in value and adds to your wealth building program.

So there's a lot of great reasons to own a home, but there's no reason to rush into it.

Yeah, that's the thing I'm worried about. I'm a veteran, and I've heard you say that the zero down payment is a bad idea. It is. Using the first time buying. So I shouldn't use my VA loan?

No. Va loan is way more expensive than a conventional loan. Just save up a good down payment and take out a conventional 15-year fixed where the payment is no more than a fourth of your take home pay once you're the other side of Baby Step 3, if you want to buy. But if you're in a bunch of transition time in your life, you're finishing, you may move. Finishing a master's, you might move to pick up a job in that field in a different area, and you're just enjoying being single right now and all that, that's It's okay. If it's three or four years or something before you get around to thinking about buying or five years, that's not the end of the world. Now, real estate prices will go up during that time. But what I'm discussing is a 10 or a 20-year decision, not a three or a four-year decision. I don't want you to go buy something just because you need to go buy something. We don't believe that. Take your time. When is the rhythm of this right for you? It will be after out of debt and have the emergency fund in place before you think about anything else.

Yeah. I like that she's got her path figured out. It's like, get through the masters, get in there, start helping people, figure out what that new life looks like. What is your income going to look like? She's going to be somewhat capped. You know what I mean? I don't mind renting during that first year to two just to figure out what my professional situation is going to look like.

You paid $90,000 a year in social work with a master's? I'm not aware of that.

I don't think so. I don't either. I would not have.

Sounds like she's signing up for a pay cut.

Yeah, it feels that way. If I'm guessing, and I'll look during the break, but if I was going to guess, I'd say the 60-70 range would probably top out is what my guess is. Now, that depends. If she's working for a local municipality or state government, you're going to be very much capped. If she can somehow take that master's in social work and she's in the private sector, then I think you could probably make a case for that.

Yeah. Garret's in Seattle. Hi, Garret. How are you? Good. How are you doing today, gentlemen? Better than we deserve. Happy Thanksgiving. What are you thankful for?

Definitely my family in this show.

Oh, thank you. How can we help?

I'm going to be joining the Air Force next year. I'm currently on Baby Seps 2, where my family is. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to go about tackling our debts to really set ourselves up for success once I head off to officer training and make sure that my wife and kid are in a solid position to How much debt you got? Right now, I'm sitting right at about 100,000 for the family.

Wow. How do you clear that in a year?

It's hard work.

Yeah. What do you make?

Right now, I'm currently making about 72,000 a year.

Okay, so where do we get 100 plus living expenses in one year?

I'm sorry. I think I might have-I thought you said you wanted to be debt-free before you went in the Air Force one year from today. No, sorry. I'm not trying to be debt-free before I go into the Air Force. I'm just trying to navigate the best strategy because we just sold our house about a year ago, so we have a good amount of money that we're sitting on.

How much are you sitting on?

Right now, about 33,000.

Okay, and what is the 100,000 in debt?

Twenty-five is for our car and then the other remaining 75 is for student loans.

Okay. Well, sell the car.

Okay. Sell the car or use the 33 to pay it off?

No, sell it. Use the 33 on the student loans and get you a $10,000, $5,000 paid for a car. You don't need to take a car payment for one thing. I mean, if you could almost be done with a student loan, if you sold the car, that's 25 of the 100 and the rest is student loans, right? Correct. Okay. Let's Can you just pretend you bought a $5,000 car and you sold the $25,000 car and you throw 25 at the 75, at least 50 to pay off. You could almost be debt-free by the time you take officer school. Officer school all paid for?

Yeah. Officer school will be all through the Air Force. Then after that, it's when I'll go into my technical training and start the career.

Okay, good for you. What are you going to be training for?

Either cybersecurity or intelligence.

Excellent. Hey, thanks for your service to the country. Yeah, I think the more of this you have in the rear view mirror, even if it's uncomfortable, the Where's our officer school is going to go? That's what you're asking, actually, and I agree with your principle here.

Yeah, I agree. I think this is a knock it out. Use the baby steps the way we teach it. That snowball. Just lean into it.

Just do everything you can. You're renting and you're moving anyway to go to officer school. That's why he sold the house. Good stuff. Garret, thank you for the call. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.