Transcript of Debt Is Never the Problem, It’s Always the Symptom

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, It's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Chris Campbell, Ramsey personality, author of the number one best-selling book, Breaking Free from Broke. He is my co-host today, and we're here to help you guys. Also, check him out on YouTube. That show is going to Zoom, Zoom. Phone number here is 888 Darlene is in Philadelphia. Hi, Darlene. How are you?

Hi, Dave. I'm great. Thanks for taking my call. I feel blessed today talking to the both of you.

Well, we're honored to have you. How can we help?

I just I wanted some financial advice or thoughts. I'm 54. I've never been married. I have no children. I live in a different state than where I grew up. As I'm aging, I'm realizing that I will likely move back to my home state to have that support in aging in about 10 to 11 years when I retire. But a job opportunity came up this past fall that I applied for and wasn't expecting to get, but they did offer me the job I just have some financial concerns about it. Not sure if it's wise for me to move back now. So one is the salary, and this is through negotiation. They're offering me what I was making last year at my current employer. Currently, I have a pension. If I leave now- What do you make? Right now, I make almost $105, but we have a lot of overtime. I work in health care, and I'll be making gross about 11,000 in the overtime this year. We have a pension. If I leave now, it'll be about $400 a month as opposed to, I think I figured out, possibly $1,800 a month. The overtime, they're 403B.

They don't start matching. I have to be there a full year before they start matching.

What are they going to pay you? What? What are they going to pay you, Bish? Five. Where is it?

It's in upstate New York. It's in Binghamton, New York.

I'm guessing less expensive than the Philadelphia area that you're in now.

It really isn't. About the same? Housing is, but I go back frequently because I have an elderly father and my family's there. Really, there's a lot more taxes. Income tax is going to be more than what I pay here. Utilities, I I'm just looking at my dad's utility bill, and they tax a lot compared to what they do here in Pennsylvania.

Can you afford to live there comfortably? Are you debt free with an emergency fund? This wouldn't really cramp your lifestyle too much?

Yes.

The numbers are fairly equal. You're not giving me… You're not telling me- It's not a 50% pay-off. Yeah, it's not like 150 versus 100. It's 102 versus 104 versus a little bit of difference in cost of living one way or the other, a little bit of taxes one way or the other. The The question comes down to where does Darlene want to live and where does Darlene want to work?

Okay, because I was concerned about the pension, losing that money for the pension, as well as the overtime that they don't give. I wouldn't make overtime there. I wouldn't have to work as much.

But the over time- What does Darlene want to do?

Okay.

Do you want to be working overtime? What do you want to do?

I'm used to the money, and I got to be honest, Dave, everything that you speak is It's how my parents raised us. I mean, it's to a T. I just want to make sure I have enough money going- Are you nursing? Moving back.

Am I what? Are you a nurse?

I'm in rehab. I'm a speech therapist.

Okay. You can pick up side hustles, too, if you wanted to.

I can, but I did side hustle for 22 years, so I wanted to do it.

I'm saying if you're going to do overtime, overtime is called side hustle. It's the same thing. Yeah. If you were up there and you picked up a side gig, doing some tutoring, so to speak, then you could offset the overtime difference. It really does come down to quality of life because the numbers you're giving me aren't like, Whoa. There's not a real thing that breaks the camel's back here. No straw here.

That's what I wanted to get clear because the thing was the pension and the overtime, and was throwing me off.

You're saying that's not a good thing. You're a very analytical person, and I am too. But I want you to just say, Okay, God, which of these two things gives me peace? What causes you to exhale? And as Deloney says, your shoulders drop. Is it staying or is it going? That's the answer to my question, if I'm you. What do you think, Jordan?

I think there's more than the numbers here that she needs to dig into. Is it the fear of just change at 54? Is it going to be- She's going to do it anyway. Is the grass greener on that side? What if I move and life isn't different? That's the stuff you got to grapple with on top of just doing the budget. I think the numbers are going to work themselves out. It's more the other pieces that I think she's really concerned about.

There's no grass that's green up there this time of year on either place. Exactly.

It's going to be cold either way, darling. So just make the move, be closer to family, and you're a hard worker, you're going to be fine, financially.

Yeah, you're going to be okay. Yeah, nothing's set in stone. And by the way, if you don't like it, you can change it. But I think that's a good idea. It is real smart to look at cost of living because everyone automatically assumes, and she's very wise to have done the research she done. You're going to automatically assume if you're going to a different area that it's going to be a lot more, it's going to be a lot less. Sometimes it is, but main factor in that, as she recognizes, is usually real estate.

Oh, yeah.

Usually, that's the main difference. I mean, the difference in Los Angeles or San Francisco and small town USA is gas prices, little bread and eggs, little housing, a lot.

That's the one.

Yeah, That's the one that throws you, and it just changes everything.

In Tennessee, we have no income tax, so people don't realize if you get a job in Tennessee, even if a pay cut, it might be equal comparatively to California or New York, where you have a lot of income taxes.

Yeah, I was noticing a We see an article this morning, a million people have left New York and California. Wow.

Because we've been covering this since COVID with the migration there. In the last 12 months. It just has continued.

Yeah, it's continued. They're landing in income tax-free states.

Look at that.

Texas and Florida are the two primaries, and Tennessee falls in there, too. But they land in income tax-free states, and they land in states that were open during the draconian shutdowns. Freedom issues News.

Financial and political. Let's drive a lot of this.

A million people have been displaced. Wow. A million. And left those two states and went somewhere else. Yeah, that does enter into it. It turns out you can't tax the Rich.

They leave. They will just peace out. I'm gone.

They leave.

They have options.

So much for your theory on that. I'm done. Load up the U-haul. Oh, wait, I'm rich. I'll let someone else load up the U-haul.

That's the real flex. Yeah, That's where I want to be in life. No movers ever again. I'm not doing it. I'm not lifting a finger.

Yeah. Also, somebody said, Dave, you have a pickup. Do you have those friends that ask you to help them move? I said, no, they wouldn't be friends. No one's ever texted you.

I'm not moving anybody. Saying, Dave, can I borrow the truck?

You want me to help you move? Do you mean you want me to pay your mover? You want me to help you move?

Is that what you mean? I would rather support a go fund me for you to get movers than me help you load up that truck.

I'm not doing either one. If you need a go fund me to move, you got other issues.

Don't ask Dave to borrow his raptor. He will not allow it. No.

It's your Or my 64-year-old back, either one. You can't have either one of them. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, I'm excited to talk about a new sponsor, Berna. You all probably know I'm a gun guy, but I'm big on safety, so I'm also a Berna guy. Berna is the ungun, a less lethal option that protects you in more ways than one. A burna is effective self-defense when you need it. It also helps protect your assets from lawsuits if you have no choice but to use force because a burna pistol immobilizes attackers without fatal harm. I have several burna pistols, and I love them. In fact, I had a burna before they started advertising with us. They're easy to use with no recoil and no noise reduction needed. They're legal in all 50 states with no permits required. Because they're not firearms, they can be shipped right to your door, and you can train Berna right in your backyard. Plus, our listeners can get the Ramsey Berna bundle for 10% off, which includes a Berna pistol, CO₂ cartridges, and ammo, and other Berna products like safety alarms, defense sprays, and body armor are also 10% off for Ramsey fans.

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Is Sharon the online shopper in the family now?

Apparently. Wow. Apparently, that happened. So there we go. I love a good deal. So Cyber Monday, one day sale, price This is as low at Ramsey is $4.99. Our best-selling hardcover books. Assessments like the total money makeover, building a non-anxious life. The GetClear assessment, all on sale just for $10? Really? The $10 sale? It's pretty wild. Cyber Monday is real. Audiobooks, just $4.99. That gum. This is a great sale. First time ever, George's book, Breaking Free from Broke, only $12?

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This is like real. I'm impressed. You go from a negative networth to a millionaire in less than 10 years, you should talk about how to do it in here for $12, that's good information. Man, amazing. All right, ramseysolutions. Com/store. You can actually buy guests for people that have meaning, not last year's ugly tie. Come on, people. Listening on YouTube or podcast, click the link, or you can go to ramseysolutions. Com/store. Jared is with us in Oklahoma City. Hi, Jared. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hi, how are you guys doing?

Better than we deserve, brother. What's up?

I know that. I'm 23, and I'm saving up to buy a house, and I was looking for guidance because the first time buying, I have no idea where I'm going. I've almost got my 20%, and that's where I'm at.

Good for you. What do you do for a living?

I do pest control.

Good for you. How much have you got saved?

Filling bugs, it finally pays. I've got 26,000, and I'll have the rest of it by mid-January.

Wow.

What's the rest?

About four or five grand.

Yeah, good for you. What do you make?

Seventy.

You're single, obviously.

Yes, and I do nothing but work 60, 70 hours, sometimes 80 hours a week. Right now, it's grind time.

Jared is no fun, but he has money.

That's fun. Jared is going to be a homeowner in his early 20s. That's fun.

Way to go, Jared.

What you're saying about living like nobody else?

You're doing it.

All that, I'm just working like a dog right now so I can enjoy a little bit of my fruit.

So you have any debt?

No. Good.

You have an emergency fund in addition to this down payment?

That was going to be my next I saved roughly my next. After I buy it, I was just going to pick up a side.

We'll take some of the money and make it the emergency fund, and then we'll save up the down payment. You don't move into a house without an emergency fund because houses are in an emergency looking for a place to happen.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like, crap breaks. As soon as you move in, it's like Murphy's law. A repairman at my house today, and it's brand new.

They don't make them like they used to.

Well, I mean, it's just part life. It's just like stuff. The more stuff you have, the more repairman you have to know.

It's an exposed wooden box. Stuff's going to happen. You need the emergency fund, 3-6 months of expenses. Add up what your expenses are for one month. Multiplie it for a single guy like you. You could lean towards a three to four month mark. Anything above that becomes your down payment. 20% down is a great goal because you'll avoid PMI, which is private mortgage insurance.

Which means you're now looking at March. Okay, that's reasonable. But that's still okay. Yeah, that's good. Listen, dude, you're killing it. I'm so proud of you. Way to go. Who taught you to be this smart?

Honestly, nobody I'm just like… It's not a bad thing. I was just… I mean, you. I took… Your class was in our high school.

There we go.

I remember, and then we had this I have a class called DECA. It's like a…

Oh, yeah.

It teaches you how to present. Oh, yeah.

I think Rachel did that. Rachel was in DECA, yeah.

I was the President of the class senior year, and I went to National It was supposed to be in Nashville, but COVID hit tragically. I was first in the school, second in the three.

Way to go, Jared. Way to go. Man, you are doing so good. The only thing I would coach you on is to do that, what we talked about, let's have the down payment plus the emergency fund, puts us into March. Then when you are getting ready to buy, do not buy a project, something you have to work on all the time.

No, that's a different one. Okay.

Do not buy. Buy something that's easy to resale, which means it's boring. It's not some weird- My thought was 150 and 200. Do what?

My thought, my price is between 150 and 200.

That's a good price range. But when you're spending the money, don't buy something that you look at it and go, Oh, I got a good deal because this is weird. Because when you get ready to sell it, somebody's going to get a good deal because it's weird. You're going to sell it when you get married because you will find out you bought the wrong house when you find her. That's okay. Go ahead and buy the house, but buy something that you can resell and make money on fairly easily. You You'll be sitting there at 27 with a big grin on your face, having made a bank on this $150,000 house that's now 300. I don't experience that exact same thing.

Yeah, our first townhome. You buy in a good area with good schools, you start to look at the stuff.

It was a nice place, but in terms of it wasn't super special or unique. It's nobody's dream home. It wasn't weird. It was just like, okay, boom, that's one.

That's right. Three bedroom townhome is all it was.

During the time you owned it, it went up how much?

Oh, my goodness. I mean, three years we lived there, it went up over 200 grand.

Yeah, that's what I just- We bought it at three.

You're talking almost 100%.

I just did that. It went 150 to 300, just like when he's 27 in three years.

That's amazing. Do it the right way. You wanted this to be no more than a quarter of your take home pay on that mortgage, and make sure you choose a 15 year. Because you're too young to have a 30-year mortgage sitting around your neck.

Fifteen-year fixed because a paid off home mortgage is one of the keys to being a baby Cribs Millionaire. Caden is in Greenville, South Carolina. Hey, Caden, what's up?

Hey, Dave. How are you doing today?

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

I just wanted to come on and just ask a quick question. I took I had a class last year with a Sunday school class, but I'm a recent graduate from Clemson. I just graduated in May. Congratulations.

Thank you, sir.

I wound up in a pretty good situation financially with my present work. But I'm pursuing medical school in the near future. I'm looking at possibly starting in about two years from right now. But I'm just wondering, how is the best way to save up for something of that magnitude.

Aggressively.

Okay.

How much are you making? You said a good situation. What'd you land in?

I'm making about 60,000 salary, and then But I think when overtime comes, which is I'll get salary in overtime, I could easily… We're working extra hours, probably wind up in the 70 to 80 range. Good.

Okay. And just live like a college student and bank all of it, right?

Yes. Would it be best to try to knock that down, pay off all of that, or take out a loan for the four years of medical school?

Caden, you went through our class?

Yes.

You never heard me ever tell somebody to borrow money, have you? No, sir. Probably not going to start today, brother.

Dang, that would have been amazing, though. Caden was the first one ever. He made it.

He said, All right, I'll make it. I want you to save like a maniac, and I want you to go to a medical school that you can afford. I've got a feeling you're going to be almost ready to pay cash for it if you watch what you're doing. Now, the problem with medical school is people get so excited when they accepted, and sometimes they get accepted to a place they can't afford. Very few times do you go to your doctor and go, Wait a minute, Doc, before we do the exam, where'd you go to school? No one asks. All they ask is, Do you have that MD.

If there's a frame on the wall, I go, All right, I'm good.

I'm assuming to start with that you have a clue. An MD. Do your research. That's what you're after.

Find out what these schools cost and choose an affordable one.

It's a big difference out there. Huge spectrum. It's mind-blowing what some of these places charge. It's like all college, for that matter, and what some of them don't charge. This is the Ramsey Show.

For free tools and resources to help you reach your home goals, go to ramseysolutions. Com/realestate or click the link in the show notes.

Hey, guys, I've never done this before, but I'm partnering with a nutrition company, Field of Greens. Each fruit and vegetable in Field of Greens is selected by doctors to support heart, liver, and kidney health, plus metabolism for healthy weight. And your doctor will notice your improved health or Field of Greens will give you your money back. I can get behind a promise like that. Go to fieldofreens. Com/ramsey and get 15% off with promo code Ramsey. Worldofgreenes. Com/ramsey. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Lauren is in Saint Paul. Hi, Lauren. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hello, Dave. How are you today?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay. I have a question regarding long-term health care insurance. My husband and I, back when we were married, bought whole life insurance policies because that's what our parents did for us. We changed them over on and on. Our financial advisor is suggesting that we cash those in and invest in a long-term care insurance for nursing home and that in the future. Just wondering what your thoughts are on that situation.

Cashing the whole life in is a no-brainer, assuming you have enough life insurance to take care of you. What's your else net worth?

Right now, about 600,000.

Okay. How old are you guys?

We are 62 and 64. Okay.

If he dies with no life insurance, are you okay?

Yes.

I mean, financially.

Yes, I would be fine. Yes, because that does not include what he has… He's a minister, and he would get a retirement to there also.

That survives him? Yes.

He cannot collect that until he's 67 and a half.

But you can collect it if he dies?

Yes, I can. Okay, all right.

So you're okay to eat. You don't need life insurance. So dropping the whole life is a no-brainer, okay? Right. Now, long-term care insurance, what you want to do there is you want to shop it among several different companies, and basically try to get the best deal, in other words. I don't know what's your financial advisor. If they're selling only for one company, that's a problem. Do they sell only for one company?

No, she suggested several different ones. Good.

Okay, that's good. Here's what you get today. You get three years of coverage, and that will cover 90 some odd None of the cases. Very few people live three years once they get to a nursing home, statistically. It's 2.8 years on average. Okay. What normally happens is mom and dad go along like you guys have, and you got a good nest egg here, and 75% of you ladies outlive their husbands. I don't know exactly what's going on there, but we'll talk about that later. Papa goes into a nursing home, burns up $300,000 or $400,000, because it's $100,000, $100,000 a year. If he's there three years, it's 300 grand of your $600, and then dies and leaves mama with the nest egg having been scramble and fried. I think you guys are a real candidate for nursing home insurance. The three years of coverage that you probably can buy, and it's fairly reasonable if you shop around. Look for a feature that has in-home care as well because it's sometimes cheaper and oftentimes a better quality of life to have in-home care. I think you're getting good advice.

Okay. No red flags here.

What our concern was, it would swing us up to quite a big payout every month for this insurance.

Just that's- How much are they quoting you?

679 a month for both. That would be $200,000 long term care policies.

How much are you getting out of the whole life policies?

What are they valued at right now?

What's your cash value you're going to get when you close them?

Between the two of us, around 52,000.

Yeah, so it pays for it.

But the cost seems very reasonable. I'm seeing the stat here in 2023 63. Average 60-year-old man paid 1,200 bucks per year.

That's about right.

For a level policy.

I don't hear anything that your financial advisor is saying that's shooting rockets off wrong. It's all correct. The only thing you need to do is get down in the details and understand it and get comfortable with it. You're going to use some of that 50 grand to offset your first year of costs to move that in, maybe some of the second year. Then you've got to decide how far out you want to stretch this. Now, you are 64. If you don't touch the 600, by the time you're 71, you will drop the long term because you'll have a million two to a million five.

You can stomach the risk at that point. Exactly. That's the point of insurance. It'll transfer risk to the insurance company instead of you. Right now, you guys How do you stomach that with your networth to take a $300,000 hit.

Yeah. George, it suddenly occurred to me. I tell people all these years, don't buy long term care insurance until you're 60. I really haven't talked a lot about if you build substantial wealth that you self-insure until I just woke up and went, dadgum, I'm 64. What happens if Sharon and I are in a situation where we're incapacitated? Well, we've got money. I don't mean that in a bragging way, but you know what I'm going to do? Get a bed that lets up and down and hire somebody to live there and take care of one of us.

He's not leaving the house.

It's a lot. You think I'm... No.

You don't want to play Bingo? You can do that at home.

Yeah. Online or something. No, I mean, it's just I can hire a dadgum medical butler and not think anything about it full-time. Put them in the house, take care of us or her or me or whoever it is, and the other Just equip this, create the same exact environment, but better in your own home because you got the money to do it, you're self-insured. I just determined, Oh, that's what we'll do. We're not a candidate for a nursing home under any circumstances. I can think of. I guess there'd be some extreme thing, maybe. But at this moment in time, financially, we don't need to do that.

Well, think about the cost, 350 grand. So think about that as part of your net worth as the listener, if you can stomach that from your nest egg without it affecting your life, you could self-insure.

That's your average. That's the average. With the average stay, which means that some people don't make it that long and some make it longer. You've got early onset and good health, you could be there 10 years.

I'm seeing the stat here. 20% will need it for more than five years. Okay. So one in five people will have a longer stay. Like you said, most people, it's two years.

Average is 2.8. Yeah, so good. Christina is in San Francisco. Hi, Christina. How are you?

Hi, Dave. I'm pretty good. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I'm a disabled veteran. I got my disability in 2020, and I got a sizeable check and wanted to buy a house with that. I make about 4,200 a month on that disability, which is very good. I ended up just buying a piece of land because the whole process of trying to find a good real estate agent didn't work out well. Then I waited to build, and then here I am four years later, and I have not built a house yet. There's no utilities on the property yet. I'm living in my travel trailer on the property legally, but I still don't have a house. We're trying to work through the process My dad is now helping me. I cannot afford really to build on my own. I need him to help me. I need a cosigner.

And you can't afford to build.

Yeah, I can't afford to build.

You bid off more than you can chew. Pretty much.

The property, it's in a city, it's a half acre, so it's a great size. I bought it for 250 with 25% down, which was required by the lender. Now, I only owe about 160,000 on it, and it's worth 265, or it's assessed by the county at 265.

Then it's worth 365 or 400.

It would probably sell for more than I bought it for.

Oh, I think so.

You need to sell it and buy something you can afford. There's no point in keeping it.

If you can't do it without a cosyner, you don't need to be doing it. You're going to get yourself in your dad in a pinch, okay? I wouldn't Well, but yeah, the concern is that right now I'm paying about a quarter of my monthly income for just the land loan. Yeah, so sell the land. Yeah. And go buy something you can afford. You can't afford to build on it. That's what you told me. I don't want you to do that. I appreciate you serving your country, and I don't want you to get handcuffed to a bad deal, and I don't want your dad handcuffed to a bad deal. Let's don't do this.

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Today's question comes from Glenn in New York. Should I change my investing strategy? I'm 50 years old and debt free with an emergency fund. I currently put 10% in a Roth IRA and another 5% in my 401k from work. Should I contribute more to my 401k to max it or get with a financial advisor and start investing in individual mutual funds. Currently, I have around 600 grand in my 401k, and the Roth has about 20k. All right, so we're debt-free. We're 50. That's good. We're investing 15%. So the question is, does he have a mortgage and is the house paid off? If so, I would continue to invest more and max out those accounts before working with the individual mutual funds outside of retirement.

Yeah. If you're in baby step seven, meaning and your house is paid off, we don't use the 15% rule. We say max out all available retirement accounts. Everything you can put in a 401k, everything you can put in the Roth. If your company has a Roth 401k instead of a traditional 401k, I would shift to that, too. That would be my plan. But I'm with you, George. If your home is not paid off, then you need to be working and pay off your home and leave this at 15%. You're fine. You're in good shape, dude. When When you are 57, you're going to have a million, too, if you don't add anything to it. When you are 64, you're going to have 2.4, if you don't add anything to it. If you're invested in good mutual funds, it sounds like you are. It sounds like you're doing the right things here all the way around. But no, I don't think you need to move to mutual mutual funds. The only reason you would move some to that is if you were going to quit work before 59.5. I don't see that happening here. I didn't hear anything in this email that made me think that was going to occur.

If that's the case, you would need to do what we call Bridge investing, which is have some money that's not in a retirement account that you can get to before 59.5 to have something to eat with. That's always a nice plan, too. That eating thing is good. Yeah, that's it. George, that's the second time in this hour we've used that. Here's a little quick lesson, boys and girls. There's a thing called a math anomaly called the rule of 72s. If you take an interest rate or a growth rate on your mutual fund, divide it into the number 72, it will tell you how long it takes a lump sum to double. If you're making 10% on your mutual fund's average into 72 is 7.2 years to double. That's what I just did. I'm assuming he's going to be making at least that. If he's 50, at 57, he would have not 600, but 1.2. At 64, seven more years, he would have 2.4. We could go all the way to 71 and have him sitting there at almost five million dollars.

This played out in real life, Dave. I went back and looked at the actual stats. Under Trump's presidency, the first term, three and a half years in, the stock market was up 53%. Under Biden, three and a half years in, it was up 50%. So 103% return in exactly 27 years. Exactly what you say. The stock market doubled in those seven years.

Yeah, and that's about what it'll do.

This is not just an opinion or a math formula. It plays out in reality.

That's the average. We don't know what's going to happen from here exactly, but that's a good thing to coach yourself a long ago. I think I'm going to be okay. The key is to be investing. Raj is in San Francisco. Hey, Raj, what's up?

Hi, how are you doing? First-time caller, long-time listener. Glad to be on the show.

Well, thank you. How can we help?

Okay, so I'm a tax professional. I'm an enrolled agent. Recently on the news, I've been hearing that in order to reduce government inefficiencies and The Trump and team might remove income taxes and replace them with terrorists. That's all good. That's okay. But for a tax professional, how would I... I'm 33 years old. I have about five years experience in the How would I facilitate a career change if that were to happen? I don't think it might happen, but just in case it does.

Well, you figure out what your talents and passions were that drew you into this in the first place. I'm guessing you're like me, you're a bit of a math nerd. You're quick with details, your mind grasps decision-making flowcharts on things like taxes. That tells me you need to move towards accounting.

Yeah. Maybe some other things in a county that are not taxes, like maybe audit.

Exactly.

Something in private accounting.

Yeah, and/or finance of all kinds. So your mind naturally goes there. You know what? I'm with you. I don't see this as a high probability in the near future. There could be a trend in that direction. It could take a while. The chances on three days after he has sworn in that you don't have a job or zero, so you're okay. We don't have to worry about this today. But what it does do, it's interesting for you personally, is it gives you that wake-up call to go, Hey, maybe I want to do something with my life that's more than just taxes. Maybe I want to broaden my horizons.

Yeah, I've been in the field, and the whole time I've been in the field, I was thinking that there's only two things that are true is death and taxes. Well, now we know one of them might not be true.

Well, It might be true. It'll just take a different form. But again, the talents that you have, the way your mind works easily for you and hard for others, it takes you towards detail and towards finance and accounting. You might sit for your CPA, dude. You might go ahead. This is just a thing that says, Hey, time for me to take the next step in my career, regardless of Trump, regardless of what they do. We're not going to sit and wait around them with White House to fix or destroy our lives, either one. We're just going to go with our lives. What's the right thing to do? Maybe this is just God giving you a little nudge.

Say, You need to get some education, some skills, and maybe expand the horizons a bit.

I would. I think it'd be good for your practice anyway, because right now you got a very seasonal thing that you work like a maniac, and then you're off the rest of the year, basically. I mean, 90% down. It's not like September is big in the tax prep business. We do a little work around this time of year in the tax prep business because people are getting ready for year-end stuff, especially small business people. Those kinds of things are some moves you can make right now. You need to check with your tax pro right now, baby. But by and large, you got this sprint in the first quarter, takes you down to April 15 or so, and may spill over into May with some late filings and stuff. But after that, you're just out. I'd be looking for something to supplement anyway.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Maybe find a niche. You might find you working with a certain type of client, and that might be your specialty that you dive into.

Now, we've got tax ELPs, people that we endorse to do taxes, endorse local providers, thousands of them all across America, and we are not advising them to prepare for their business to end.

I'd turn off the news if you're getting paralyzed by that.

Yeah. Again, I have no idea anymore more than anybody else what the new president is going to do, but it's going to be a bit. It's going to be a bit. Things move slower than that. I don't think you're going to get a call one day and go, There's no income tax. Although on a personal note, it wouldn't piss me off at all if there was just suddenly no income tax. I'd be going, Oh, wow. You mean all the things, the money that I make helping people, I get to keep the money that I That's right.

It's not triple-taxed.

Instead of sending it to you people.

Have you ever thought about that, though? When you're taxed on your income, you then use that money, it's taxed again. Then the person who gets that money pays taxes on the money they get as the business owners.

It just keeps going. Then when you die, they tax you again.

The death tax on your estate. It's just an endless taxation of the dollar.

Yeah, I have thought about it. Am I turning into a boomer? You are. You've been sitting next to one for too long. It's rubbed off. The The spirit of rage is leaving my body and moving into your house.

Oh, no. Soon on me, yelling at kids to get off my lawn.

Yeah, that happened to me this week, actually. But, oh, well.

It was your grandkids, Dave.

It's different. No, my neighbor yelled at me to get off his lawn. There you go.

A bold move.

Yeah, bold move. He was kidding. Maybe. This is the Ramsey Show.

This show is sponsored by Better Help. Hey, it's that time of year. It's starting to get a little bit colder. It's getting a little bit dark earlier. Sometimes, if you're like me, you just want to stay inside and get cozy. For me, my perfect cozy night is me and all of my family piled under blankets, watching a movie, sitting by the fire, maybe even reading a book. Listen, whatever your perfect night in looks like, sometimes therapy can feel a bit like that. A time when you can settle in, finally, exhale, replenish your energy, and begin to take care of yourself. Therapy is a great way to bring yourself some comfort during the chaos and rush of the holiday season or any other time of year. Taking the time to pause and be mindful is one of the reasons I recommend Betterhelp. Betterhelp is 100% online therapy with licensed therapist. You can talk with your therapist just about any time and just about anywhere, so it's convenient for your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a therapist, and you can switch therapist for no extra cost. Find comfort this December with Betterhelp.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book, Breaking Free from Broke, on sale on Cyber Monday right now at ramseysolutions. Com. He's my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Anne is in Phoenix. Hi, Anne. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi.

Hi. What's up?

My question is, is it worth dipping into our emergency fund while we fight insurance to make sure I'm okay medically? A little more into that, I think I'm having an ectopic pregnancy. My husband's all for dipping into the emergency fund because he's already done the math, he's 20 steps ahead. Instead of fighting insurance, he would rather just make sure I'm okay, literally Thursday, and then fighting insurance for a month, and I have to go in for emergency surgery.

Well, I think your husband is 100% right.

It sounds like an emergency to me. It's urgent, it's necessary, and it's unexpected. Yeah. It checks the boxes.

What are you, a Navy seal? You don't think you need to do this? I mean, no, you need to take care of yourself, girl.

To me, it's the insurance's problem. He's military, so we have insurance, and it's great to cover it. I think it's your problem.

You're sick.

Yeah.

Okay. I think you fight with them. I would argue with them up and down, and I would go all… I'd go all in right and be tearing their freaking heads off. But at the end of the day- We've been doing that for about two weeks, and now he's at the point. Don't stop. Don't stop. Just keep doing it up until the day of. But you need to go and take care of yourself.

Okay.

Sounds like your husband's worried about you.

Yes, he is. He's very worried. Okay.

What's the cost out of pocket?

It would be, initially, just for the ultrasound, it's $500 I had a really bad spending habit. I love shopping. I get it from every female I'm related to. Spending money now feels like a heart attack in my chest.

Because you You've overcome impulsive shopping. Listen, an ultrasound when you're having a baby is not impulse. Okay. Now, I would do this. I will tell you that if you will shop around the wonderful town of Phoenix, you will find that you can probably get that ultrasound done for 250.

Yeah.

There's lots of places do ultrasounds. Their price range, again, if you say no insurance, cash when I walk in, what's your best deal? I want a coupon. If you're a shopper. Okay? Okay. You're going to find that... We find this all the time. I've actually advertised for a few ultrasound places over the years in certain cities, and not one in Phoenix and not lately, so I don't know the name of it. But I remember this concept. They came to us and go, Oh, the reason everybody charges 500 or 600 bucks is because insurance will pay it. But if you walk in there with cash, you can get it for 200. That's what that company told us that does ultrasounds. They advertised that for a while to try to steal business from the insurance ultrasound people or whatever. But yeah, shop around, get a better deal, but take care of yourself, kiddo.

Okay.

Husband's right. You're worth it. By the way, give him a good hug. He's a good man. Okay. Showing up on the scene, taking care of his wife, saw Luke Yes.

He's a fantastic husband.

Yes, he is. They're out there.

There's also an app.

They're all taken, but they're out there.

There's an app called... Yeah, that's true. There's an app called Billy Dave. They're not a sponsor of ours, but they have this cool app where it shows transparent pricing for procedures, so you can type in the CPT code. It'll tell you in your area what the cheapest facility is for that specific procedure. It's pretty cool. It might be something you can check out as she does her research. I've never tried it personally, but I've heard good things, so might an option to at least know you're not getting screwed.

See, I have a concept, and George has an actual technical hack.

There's an app for that, Dave.

George has always got a technical hack for my good concept.

I've got about 400 apps on my phone.

I didn't even know that. That's so cool.

Way to go, George. Billy.

We've talked to them. What's it named after?

Bill Clinton? I don't know. I don't know if it's Billy as in the Bill, the medical bills.

Oh, it is. That's what it is.

I don't know.

Billy Goat.

We'll find out, but it could be- Billy Goat, bro. I'm all about transparency because I'm the one who hates getting screwed, feeling like I overpaid for something. Just to know I'm not getting screwed and this is actually a good deal makes me sleep better at night.

I've been paying cash for medical stuff for a long time out of pocket, and all you got to do is just go, Hey, I'm paying cash, it's not insurance. Most of the time it's like boom.

Discount. I used to work at a doctor's office when I was 14 years old as the receptionist, and if they were cash paid-Oh, wait a minute. Yes. Can you imagine walking in and seeing me?

George, how tall were you at 14?

About the same height, Dave.

Could you see over the desk?

I maxed out at five and a half. That was it.

You You were the receptionist in a doctor's office at 14. I had to lean up a little.

I think I sat on a pillow. That's right.

Things I learned while I'm on the air in front of millions of people about George.

That was my first real job, Dave, $12 an hour. Wow.

You could pay big money back then.

That was good money back then for a 15-year-old, are you kidding me?

Well, I mean, they were seriously overpaying you.

But I remember we'd get the bills for the procedures, and if they were a cash pay, the doctor would have me note it, and it would be a severely discounted rate.

You got that at 14?

At 14, I figured that out.

This This is how George ends up with a book called Breaking Free from Broke. That's wisdom. He knows about Billy, and he knows about-I can't mow along to save my life, but I know a CPT code. 14-year-old George learns the hack for the medical system.

Wow. Not on your Bingo card.

I did not see that coming today. George answering the phone.

I'm a renaissance man, Dave.

You answered the phone. Did you have a little headset?

No, I mean, it was people walking up. It was more in person. I'd answer the phones, which I was really good I mean, seriously, folks, and babies are one of the things that we've discovered this with the most, and this was all the way back from the early days doing this show before health care was what it is now, good or bad, whatever you want to call it.

But in those days, sometimes people did not have labor and delivery coverage on their health system, on their health plan. What we learned was if you go to the hospital to have a baby, it's one of the few times that people want to go to the hospital. It's a good thing to go to the hospital. Most of the times you're at the hospital, it's a bad thing. Labor and delivery is like good PR for hospitals. If for some reason you find yourself not covered, go to the hospital in the first trimester and say, I'm going to choose a hospital based on the deal that you give me for labor and delivery, and I'm going to pay cash, and I will pay 50% of it upfront before we get here, and the other 50% on the day arrive. So you will not be trying to collect in its cash on the barrelhead, and you will see a 50 to a 70% reduction. That's what we normally see from hospitals. Again, because they really like babies to come to their place, because it's the time that people come to the hospital, everyone involved. The visitors are smiling, the participant is smiling, everybody, right?

Families all visiting there. Yeah, it's a good thing. Keep in mind, this is business they want, in other words. And you're a cash buyer, you don't have insurance. This is how it's going to be. They don't have to chase you for the money. They got the money up front.

They like that. Serious discount.

That works in a lot of stuff out there, ladies and gentlemen. But yes, if you are pregnant and you're having in trouble with your pregnancy, that is by definition an emergency. If you need to use some of your emergency fund, that's what it's for. This is the Ramsey Show. Are you working the baby steps? One of the smartest and most impactful changes you can make is to ditch your cash value life insurance plan, if you have one, and replace it with a term life policy. Listen, the only thing a cash value policy is good for is overcharging you for the life insurance and then paying you a crappy rate of return on your overpayment. Stop wasting your money and really focus on getting out of debt and growing your savings. For over 25 years, I've trusted and used Xander Insurance to find the best rates on term life insurance from the top-rated companies. They keep the whole thing simple. You can apply online or over the phone, and they even have low-cost plans that don't require an exam. Go to Xander. Com or call 800-356-4282. Even if you don't have a cash value policy, if you're one of the 70% of people who have no life insurance or not enough, it's even more important to get this done.

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Hey, guys, George Campbell here, and it's that time of year again. The store shelves are packed with Little Debbie's Christmas trees, matching pajamas for you and your dog, you know who you are, and giant inflatable Santas for the yard. I'm not mad about that. Speaking of inflation, Americans are about to spend close to a trillion dollars this Christmas. And get this, one-third of that spending will be swiped on credit cards. Yikes. Now, I get it. You want the holidays to feel magical and you want to have a good time. But trust me, there is nothing magical about staring down a mountain of credit card debt come January. So here's the deal. If you don't want January you to hate December you, I've got a money hack for you. Download the EveryDollar app. It's free to get started, and you could find an extra $400 of margin in your first month of using it. See, with every dollar, you'll keep your holiday spending under control. You'll track your expenses, you'll make a plan, you'll stay accountable, and maybe even set yourself up with some sweet New Year goals. So skip the post-Christmas regret and download every dollar for free in the App Store today.

Your future self will thank you.

George Campbell-Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Dj is with us in Austin, Texas. Hi, DJ. How are you?

Hi, Dave. Thanks for the call.

Sure.

What's up? Ironically, I'm a long-time listener, all right? And didn't know it, but I followed the steps without formal introduction to those steps, all right? I didn't realize- You had common sense. That I was, I guess, because by accident, as I look back on it. All right, jeez. I said, I've been doing exactly what you're talking about and what you outlined. Great, great advice. I agree with 95 % of everything you said. Cash is king. My question is, once we get to your level or we get to the level that you would think is the top, what's your thoughts on maintaining that? A whole lot harder, all right, to compound at this level than it was to get here. And I'm just amazed at what's going on in our world today and the leaks and the shots that everybody's taken to take it away from you.

Okay. Well, the hard thing is not the actual compounding because a million dollars invested in mutual funds does the exec does the same that 10 million does, does the exact same that 100 million does. It's the exact same compounding. A million dollars invested in good real estate does the exact same thing $100 million dollars does in good real estate. So the compounding is not the problem. The problem is a stink in taxation and estate planning and maintaining your sanity as you manage more and more assets in terms of not letting it drive you bonkers because the more stuff you own, the more repairman you have to know thing. Actually getting peace from it rather than anxiety from it. You know what I'm saying? Yes, sir.

I know very much what you're saying.

The spiritual aspect of it is more challenging. The tax and estate planning is more challenging because, as you said, more people are taking shots at it. Really, risk management becomes a thing because all of a sudden somebody wants to just sue you because they got a hangnail and they think it's easy money. So you got to have risk management. Those are things that I've noticed have come into play. I think you just manage those things It's as if they're individual sciences. That's what I've done. I've said, Okay, risk management, here's what we're going to do. We're going to study that. I'm going to learn about how to split up the pie into small enough pieces that it doesn't have a big target on it. It's not as attractive to everyone to sue. I'm also going to not settle with anyone. I'm going to destroy them if they come after me and try to get easy money. I'm going to make an example out of them and their Jack leg ambulance chasing attorney, and I've done that. I'm I just set some policies in place and said, Okay, here's what we're going to do. Obviously, we buy insurance, and obviously, I don't own anything anymore.

Everything's in some a trust or an LLC or a C-Corp or S-Corp, one of the two. Then estate planning, I've spent a couple of hundred grand over the last 20 years on estate planning, maybe more, to save 20 or 30 million in estate taxes. Then the same thing on income tax, which is just an ongoing thing. All I've done is I've just had to get better at those things as the size has gotten better. But the compounding is really not any trouble with the money making money. It's bizarre.

Well, you don't have debt attached to it, all that real estate cash flow is way better. If you just leave the investments alone, it'll grow.

It's one of the things that comes with the... I'm a Christian, a person of faith, and so I believe I'm not the owner, I'm managing it for God. If God asked me to manage something larger and more sophisticated, then I have to grow my skills, including the size of my backbone to handle whatever anxiety or stress it comes with. To protect whatever comes with it. Well, and to fight, if I need to fight, including just growing my brain about some of these subjects that I didn't know before and that thing. It's part of becoming a manager. If you're manage one restaurant, it's different than managing 500 restaurants. It's a different skill set. Even if you're a manager and you're not the owner, you're working for someone else, which is how I view it. Also, by the way, DJ, I'll just throw out… Again, my faith journey with that has really kept me from, most of the time, from being stressed out about this stuff because I just go, God, you got a problem. You have a problem. I'm the manager. What do you want to do with your thing over here? They got this situation.

In prayer, I just say, Okay, Lord, what do you want to do with your deal here? Sometimes he says, You want to fix that for me, God? Because I don't know what I'm supposed to do here. It's your thing. What do you want? It's not all on your shoulders. Call the owner and go. The heat and air is out. The renter called and said the heat and air is out. Call the owner. I call the owner sometimes, and I remember it, I'm not God. I don't have to have all the answers. I'm not perfect. I'm going to just do the best I can do the next right step. That's released me from a large percentage of the stress that a lot of people feel in those situations where your wealth has come from.

You feel like you could just screw it up overnight. Yeah.

I'm not going to screw it up overnight because I'm not going to make one single thing that blows the whole thing up. I'm not doing anything that's that reactionary or that I'm too risk averse to do that. But yeah, it's interesting. Good stuff. All Jennifer is in Portland, Maine. Hi, Jennifer, how are you?

I'm doing great. Thank you so much for taking my call, Dave. Sure. I've been following you for about 20 years. When I first heard you, I became debt-free, and we moved to Maine. We paid off our home in 10 years, and it's given us financial freedom, so thank you. Well, thank you.

The reason I'm calling is I have an older cousin.

I'm her only living relative. She has left everything in her will to me. She has a home that's paid for that's worth about $150,000. She has a $30,000 heelock on there that's variable. She owes back taxes for last year of 4,300, and she's going to owe another 4,300 come due in January. She has $30,000 worth of unpaid credit cards that she stopped paying on about three years ago. She did have somebody convinced her to lease a Jeep, and she paid that off, but then she went back to them and took a really high interest to loan out. We're just sitting here wondering what we should do if she lost this home, she'd have nowhere to go, she's got bad credit and no money.

How old is she?

Seventy She's not in overly the best of health. She does have an income of $3,500 a month that we've been trying to convince her to budget all these the last three years. She has not done anything really to help herself.

That's her problem then.

Well, we're wondering, would it behoove us to pay the taxes and the Heelack off knowing that- Knowing that she's going to go borrow it again in summer? Yeah, I would hope to.

This woman has a track record that's abysmal. It's like every time something gets cleaned up, she messes it up again.

Right.

I don't want to be a part of that.

Right.

I mean, okay, so you pay off the heelock and then the Jeep gets repoed and they sue her, and so she goes and takes out another heelock to pay the lawsuit. That's what's coming.

Yeah, I hate to say it, but I don't think she's smart enough to realize she could even do that.

She's smart enough to get the It was locked the first time.

Well, her husband, who is deceased- Did he do the Jeep?

No. Did he run up the credit cards? No.

I wouldn't do this, Jennifer. Jennifer.

Okay. You're throwing good money after bad. I would coach I would love her. I would be cheering for her. I would write zero checks.

The estate will pay off her debts, and whatever's left, if there is anything, you'll get it.

I doubt there will be. I wouldn't have any expectation there. No. I think she needs to... I would scare the P. Waden out of her. Hey, guys, it's Rachel Cruz. Just about everything costs more these days, and health care is no exception.

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Org/budget. Hey, Guys, Dave Ramsey here, and I got a big announcement. I'm coming to a city near you live on the Money and Relationships Tour with Dr. John Deloney. This is the most interactive event we've ever done. You get to decide what we talk about. You do not want to miss this. We'll be coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fortworth, and Kansas City in April and May of 2025. Get your tickets and more information at ramseysolutions. Com/tour. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. It is that time of year. In a few weeks, we're going to be doing your all's favorite show here on the Ramsey Show, The Giving Show, where we hear from people who have received gifts that were life-changing or given gifts that were life-changing. For three hours, we talk about that to inspire you to live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else. We need to hear from you if you want to be part of that show and share your story of giving or Receiving that'll make our eyes leak and inspire people. I love it. Go to ramsey solutions. Com/ask. Put giving in the subject line.

Leave us a little bit about your story. Team will get with you and set you up to be part of that program. It's going to be on December the 18th, so you need to get your submissions in now. We do want to hear your story. Please go to ramsey solutions. Com/ask. Put Giving in the subject line. Braided is in Houston. Hi, How are you?

I'm good. How are you, Gordon? David?

Good. How can we help?

Hey, I appreciate it. Me and my wife have come to the agreement that my current position as a business owner, and it's not likely to get us to the goals that we set that we want to end up in our lives. My question to you is, my wife is not willing to move away to find the right job that does that. She wants to stay close to her family. She's very close with them. They're close with her, and I'm close with them as well. But I'm more willing to go out and find that job far away from here, if that's what it is. She's very resilient to making that change. There's not much job offers nearby where we live, but there are an hour, hour and a half away from here. How- You're in Houston? I'm in Brenham. It's about an hour and a half outside of Houston. Okay. Houston is my nearest big town. What job are you looking for?

Got all the job.

I'm a mechanical engineer. I've got experience in oil and gas, and I've got experience in manufacturing and aerospace safety systems. I'm actually looking right now for a role potentially in oil and gas, but also I know that there's a lot of space exploration that is picking up.

What would you be making in the new role, approximately?

I would be a four-tier engineer, so somewhere between 80,000 to 90,000.

What do you make now at your small business?

It's a carpentry business. That was a passion that I jumped into. It varies, of course, based on the job. I've been able to maintain around $65,000-$70,000 a year, but that's starting to show we've got a boy and we want to have more kids. That's starting to show that there's something else that needs to take care of the expenses than just what I'm making now in the job.

How long have you been married?

We've been married about three years now. And she's funny enough, she's actually a German citizen with a green card. It's funny. I talked to her about finances and stuff, and there seems to be a disconnect where obvious things to me are not so obvious to her. I see it from her German background. It's very different there, and there's not as much of it.

Her German family is in Brennan, Texas?

Part of the German family, yeah. She's got family all over the world. But her sister, who she's very close to, they were her sponsors coming over. I met her through her family, and so I ended up marrying her, but we're close to her family who's here in Brennan. Yes, sir.

Her family is her sister?

Her sister and her brother-in-law. They own a property in Brennan.

That's the whole family hold.

No, she's got a mom in Germany.

I'm asking why in the heck you're staying in Brennan. Her sister is why you're staying in Brennan? It's not exactly her mom and you got the grandkids you're running off with.

This is the- Very true. Her background or their family is very rough. A lot of bad stuff with their parents.

Okay.

Her sister was her acting mother thing. Okay.

You guys are just got to sit down and talk about, Okay, these things all don't go together. There's not a $90,000 job for me here.

Right.

If you are in agreement that I need to get a different job, you are saying, We need to move closer to Houston. Instead of being 10 minutes from your sister, you're going to be 45 minutes from your sister, and I'm going to have a 30-minute commute. You're going to move between the two.

Sure, yeah.

That's reasonable.

Yeah, absolutely.

But if you can't communicate that basic stuff, you got other issues, like marriage issues.

Oh, no. It's not so much she's willing She's not willing to move. No, she's not.

That's why you called me.

She's faithful as a wife, but she also has this strong- That's not the point.

I didn't say she was unfateful. You called and said she's unwilling to move, but we're in agreement that I need a new job. That's exactly what you said right here. I heard you. Right. Yeah, okay. So quit changing the story.

If she can move across the world, I think she can move an hour away. From her sister. You'll be okay. You can visit her on the weekends. Yeah. I think there needs to be some compromise here.

Yeah. Again, I'm not saying move to freaking New York City. You're moving closer to Houston where you have a 30-minute commute instead of an hour and a half. Then when she sees her sister on the weekend, for God's sakes, you drive an hour over there. I mean, this is not... He wants to be a rocket scientist. So here we go. I'm kidding. It just flashed through my head. Houston, we have a problem. I almost said it, but no. We have a problem. No. I mean, you are in the hotbed if you want to be in the space world. My God, you're in Houston. There's nowhere else other than Cape Cnavril that you could do better. But you're going to not commute an hour and a half so she can be near her sister. That's asinine.

I think we're going to FaceTime for a while. It'll be okay.

Whatever. Again, I'm not suggesting you completely disconnect that you never see them again or whatever. But if you actually add up the number of hours you spend with them during the week versus the number of hours you spend at work during the week, these two things are not compatible. It's illogical. It's silly. We're both in agreement that me working all the time as a carpenter My passion job, I think he said, is not working out. Okay, good. Get you an engineer job up towards Houston, move your butt up there. Then, for God's sakes, hire her a driver and send her down to to the sister if you have to, whatever you got to do. It's not really not... This is not hard. It's not hard. You can't have this both ways. You can't say, Oh, you need to make more money. We live in a dinky town that doesn't have a whole list of mechanical engineers. Now, if there's mechanical engineering, you can do remote in the oil field. You might be able to do some remote work there. I don't know how that works.

I was thinking about that.

Then maybe you can land that and I'll just shut up and you just stay there. But you need to go find some actual jobs and make her turn them down. Not theory.

Especially if it means a 50% pay increase. Well, that's what he's looking at. That's what he's looking at. From 60 to 90. It's serious.

That's what he's looking at. So, yeah, that's it. All right, open phones at 888-825-5225. There's a reason, folks, from an economics perspective, one of the classes I took way back in college when the dinosaurs were on the Earth and I was getting my real estate degree, urban economics. Urban economics are different than rural economics. There is more opportunity in a Metropolitan area with a larger population. There is also the downside of a higher expense for real estate, typically, and there's the downside of there's a dadgum many people, and not all of them are fun. You move to the city if you're going to move into some careers. If you're going to move out towards the country, you're going to get cheaper real estate, a more rural setting. I love that personally, but you're going to have a commute in if you're going to be involved in the economics of the opportunities that are available. That's what he's finding.

You got to pull all the different levers and find what works for you.

You got a 5,000-person town I don't know how big that town is. He's in. I'm making this up. But if you got a 5,000-person town, it's different than a town of what it was freaking Houston, 12 million or something. It's huge. Of course, it takes seven hours to drive across the whole thing. But yeah.

Yeah, Brenham's got 17,000 people. Okay. Not a crazy big town.

Yeah, there we go. Look at you with your quickness on the Google. This is the Ramsey Show. Folks, the Ramsey Christmas Cash Giveaway is here, and you could win big. We're giving away $500 prizes each week and one grand prize of $5,000. Enter daily for your chance to win at ramseysolutions. Com/giveaway. It's that easy. Plus, our 50 days of Christmas deals is on Right now, get up to 30% off best sellers and life-changing gifts that won't break the holiday budget. Ramsey solutions. Com/store. The best way to build wealth is on purpose. Reporters often ask me, Dave, what's the number one mistake Americans make with their money? As if they think I'm going to say a single thing. Don't they ask you that?

Oh, yeah.

That's like a classic- That's like a classic thing. It's like a journalism question. They got that in first year journalism school.

What's the best advice you've ever gotten?

What's the best advice you give? What's the number one thing that people... I finally developed a really good answer. You know what's the number one mistake Americans make with their money? They don't freaking pay attention. They just drive with their eyes closed and then wonder why they hit the dadgum ditch. I'm just going to spend everything I make and I'll get to retirement and go, I sure hope the government, which is well known for its ability to handle money, will take care of me. That's dumb.

I'll just buy now, pay later, and swipe my life away and hope for the best.

Just carna, carna, keep carna. That's right. Keep carna, carna, carna, then karma.

And affirm. I want to be affirmed.

I want to be affirmed with karma. Carna, then karma comes. Carna, karma.

Oh, The Credit Karma, Carla.

You're killing me here. I was buying a T-shirt with a smart elk saying on it. Can you imagine that? They offered me payments on the T-shirt, George. This is the problem. Okay, Let me tell you how you build wealth. You pay attention. You're intentional. You make your money behave instead of wondering where it went. That's called, one of the things you do is you do a budget. You sit down, you go, Okay, I manage freaking $100,000 a year, and I have no idea. That's dumb. If you work for somebody and that was your job, you get fired for being incompetent.

If you're in the government, you get promoted.

Well, we're not talking about that. You just get me mad now. Don't do that. Sorry. We're talking about real people, not government people. These are not bureaucrats. These are humans. We just don't pay attention. Pay attention. Write it down, agree on it with your spouse, give every dollar an assignment before the month begins, and then crack the freaking whip on those dollars and make them dance a jig so you end up with something out of it. I mean, get the chair out and the whip. You remember the old cartoon, The Lion tamer? This money, it's going to eat your butt if you do not take care of it. You know why other You know why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer? Because the rich people keep doing rich people stuff. You know what rich people stuff is? They pay freaking attention. They learn about investments, they invest, they do a budget, they agree on spending with their spouse, and it keeps working, and they keep doing it over and over and over and over and over again. You can't say, Thank God, it's Friday. Oh God, it's Monday, and end up anything but broke.

Spend everything on the weekend. That's just short-sided lack of vision. You need a written budget. This is why we named Every Dollar, the world's best budgeting app, Every Dollar, because you give every dollar an assignment, you make every dollar freaking behave. You can download Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play, or click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube. By the way, those of you listening to the show right this second, this is the last segment in this hour before we move to another segment. That last segment, the third segment of the show that's coming up in a few minutes, is It's only available on the Ramsey Network app, and it's completely free. But if you haven't downloaded the Ramsey Network app yet, you need to, so you can get the third element of the show, third segment of the show every day, video and audio, and you can search it by call subject, and you can send us an email and all kinds of stuff. Download the Ramsey Network app for free in the App Store. Download the Every Dollar app for free in the App Store.

See, now you're just all apped up as if you were at Applebee's or something, and you just ordered that sampler platter. Got all the apps.

Don't tease.

Got all the apps, I'm just saying. I'm sure somewhere Robert Kennedy just passed out. Okay. Abigail in Tallahassee, Florida. Hey, Abigail, what's up?

Hey. I was just needing some help trying to get my husband to be on board with the debt snowball. We're about $70,000 in between a car loan and then credit cards and other loans. Then we make like 113 together. I outlined the budget of how to get it. We can get this done in probably about two years, but he just keeps blocking me and I'm like, Why? I don't know why. Yeah, you do.

He told you.

We have a You know him better than we do.

What do you think is behind this?

He didn't just say, I want to be broke. I'm going to block you. He didn't say that. What did he say? Why didn't he want to do it?

When I tried to talk to him about it this weekend, his response was, Well, just hand me over the finances and we'll get separate accounts and I'll pay what I pay out of my paycheck, and then you pay what you pay out of your paycheck. That was the most recent reply.

Okay, then basically he's saying, Yes, we have a problem, but I have a different solution than you.

Yeah.

That's different than he's blocking you.

Well, but again- He didn't agree with you.

And his solution is to Venmo you like a weird roommate situation.

Yeah.

Okay. All right. Well, so here's the thing. How long ago did you start listening to our stuff?

It's only been a few weeks.

That's what I thought. Okay. Here's what happens. You came running in all excited with a brand new thing with your hair on fire, and he went, Oh, God, she fell for a scam. She's joined a cult. Didn't he? That's why you laughed. I got you.

Yeah. I appreciate your enthusiasm.

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but you ruined it. What you need to do is go in and say, Hey, listen, I owe you an apology because you do, by the way. You had information that he didn't have, and you tried to cram it down his throat. You didn't mean to. You were just excited, enthusiastic. You found some hope for the first time. I don't blame you. I'm happy you got excited. I'm glad we were able to do that for you. I also want to do it for him, okay? Let's start with, I'm sorry, I went out this wrong. I really need you. I know you love me, and I know you care about our future, and I really need you to listen to what I I've been learning and listen to this stuff and then tell me what's wrong with it. Then turn on a YouTube debt-free scream and turn on this segment of the podcast, which will be posted today and that stuff. Because what he is prescribing, there's no data that said there's zero research that says what he's suggesting works. Matter of fact, there's a lot of research that says what he's suggesting won't work.

But he is at least wanting to try something.

Yeah. We've never had everything separate.

We've always had everything together. You don't want it to be separate. It needs to be together, and we need to be together. I need you as my man to hear me, and I need us to get aligned on where we're going, because this is scaring me to death where we are. Separating everything makes me feel like a divorce. I know I don't want a divorce.

Yeah.

Just start talking about this stuff and asking questions and draw him in. Because he went up to a water fountain to get a drink, you turned on a fire hose because you were excited, and I'm glad you're excited. Don't misunderstand. That happens a lot, though. Then if you're not careful, you keep at it and you'll turn my name into a cuss word. Okay, that's the next step. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that guy cult leader over there, that bald guy. That's what happens. It happens all the time, which is weird because very few cult leaders are actually bald. Most of them have really nice hair.

It could be a wig. We don't know.

Anyway, What we'll do, let me give you every dollar, and I'm going to give you Financial Peace University for free as our gift, and then say, Hey, let's open these up and watch one of these videos together. Then you tell me if this right or not. You tell me what's wrong with what they're saying. Because I got some hope out of this, and I got really excited. This is you talking. Because hope is powerful, girl. It's wonderful. I'm so happy you got that. But he's not a bad guy, and he really doesn't want a divorce. You just swooped in there pretty heavy on him. Yeah. I think if you back off a little, let's- Approach it calm Now, don't take a machine gun into a fishing tournament, right? That's the idea here, right? Don't spray and pray. That's not what we're doing. We're actually going to use a little bit of finesse here. Finesse. You're the wife, you know what finesse means. Husbands don't know what that means He's usually the husband. You can do this. This is the Ramsey Show.

Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app..