Transcript of How Did Your Parents Mess You Up? My Daughter Got Brutally Honest About What I Got Wrong

Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Hey, it's your friend Mel Robbins. I'm thrilled that you're here with me. And I am so excited. My daughter Sawyer Robbins, co-author of the Let Them Fear You— you're here.

I'm here.

We did an episode, the last episode that we dropped, you asked me a bazillion questions about love and relationships. So this episode, what topic are we covering?

We are covering parenthood.

You're not pregnant, are you?

Nope.

Okay.

Are you?

Are you kidding? The well is dry, baby. Oh my God. We're gonna throw to our amazing sponsors. They wanna share a few words, and then we're gonna start the show in just a minute. Stay with me. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited that you're here. I am sitting in the TV room at my house in Vermont. Our eldest daughter, Sawyer Robbins, who's the co-author of The Let Them Theory, is here with me. And I'm fired up for what we're gonna do today because you have a ton of questions that you've gathered from friends, from family members, from listeners around the world, Sawyer. Mm-hmm. And we're gonna rapid-fire through them today. And I know that you're gonna hear something or laugh at something or learn something, and you're gonna think, oh my gosh, I've never thought about it that way. Or you're gonna think of somebody that you love and go, I need to send them this episode right now. And so I'm thrilled that you're here. And if you're new or somebody shared this with you, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. All right, Zoë, let's just jump right into this.

Um, hi everyone. I'm Zoë Robbins. I mustered up all these new parenting questions from friends, family, my siblings, my significant other about advice we want on parenting.

Okay, now I'm not a parenting expert. Correct. But you have experienced my parenting. So would you like to go on the record and at least like give some background? Because I just want to make sure that as you're listening, you know, this is your friend Mel.

Yes.

Sharing mistakes made, perspectives gained, things that I did well, things that I didn't do well. But, you know, 0 to 10, how did I do? Throw out the 7.

Mel did with what she could. She was a 9.

What?

Yes.

Not an 8?

No, you are, you were such a good parent. So let's get it. And we're gonna start off with the first question today. What do you think parents get wrong about preparing their children for adulthood?

What I believe that I got wrong. Is underestimating how capable you are and reinforcing the message that you can handle it and that there's a certain amount of struggle that is necessary for you to grow and become an adult and to become responsible for yourself and the life that you want. And what I probably got wrong and what I always work on is the balance between Standing on the sideline and making sure you know that I'm here to support you and not rescuing you from the things that are challenging about life, but reminding you that you are capable

of

figuring it out. You're capable of navigating your way through these challenges. You're capable of learning how to make more money. You're capable of dealing with friend drama. You're capable of figuring out your career.

Mm-hmm.

Learning from your mistakes, not stepping in and solving it 'cause it robs you.

Mm-hmm.

Of growth.

Mm-hmm. Before becoming a parent, what did you imagine parenthood would be like?

Um, before I became a parent, I imagined that parenthood would probably be like a Norman Rockwell painting. Lots of time for coloring and playing and pushing on the swings. Lots of calm, happy moments. Everything just sort of flowing. And it's really not like that at all. It's better and worse at the same time.

I love that. What surprised you most about becoming a mom?

My nipples. They turned into sausages that were spraying milk like a spigot. It's disgusting. They like literally get like this big and this— it's just, oh, God, they go back. Not, not to the full form, but they go back.

What was your first thought when you saw me come out of the womb?

Thank God it's over.

That's a good answer.

Well, you had to be vacuumed out of me. You were 2 weeks late. And you did not want to come into this world. You were going to come in on your own time, damn it. And They had to jumpstart the labor with Pitocin. And it was a particularly busy night at Mass General Brigham here in Boston. And everything went wrong that could have gone wrong. Everything. I remember my mother hitting the button on the wall because I was screaming in pain and they had done 3 epidural attempts. It was like 1 o'clock in the morning and I was just a mess. And She hit the button on the wall, everybody came running, and they had to vacuum you out. And then the placenta tore and I started bleeding out. So I don't actually remember you coming out. I remember being wheeled out to surgery. And I was gone for 2 and a half hours before I got wheeled back in. And I was so out of it that I don't even remember Coming back into the room. I remember waking up in the room the next morning. I guess it was morning by then. And they brought you in.

That's what I remember. Everything went wrong that could have gone wrong except for one thing. You. That's what went right. You were perfect. You were truly perfect.

Thanks, Mom. That's crazy that that all happened. I don't think I fully knew that full story.

Yeah.

I knew the vacuum.

Yes.

I knew that you lost a lot of blood and then you went into postpartum, but I didn't realize that you immediately went into surgery and then woke up, like, without having known what basically had happened.

They basically handed you to Dad, who was in a state of shock, and everyone was super traumatized by how, like, much of an emergency it was.

Yeah.

And my mom, and they sat and waited alone in the delivery room.

Oh my gosh.

Until I got wheeled back in and I was basically like, my skin was like the color of a dolphin. I had lost so much blood. I was gray. Yeah. I had really wanted and planned for this beautiful birth experience. Like I wanted to go natural. I don't know why, but I had a midwife. We were also at a hospital. We had taken all the classes. And it just— sometimes that happens. So I was really scared when I got pregnant with Kendall, and we knew some of the medical issues that had gone wrong. So we were able to prepare for 'em. And her birth was like just flawless. And I don't say that because there's a competition. I just say it because sometimes things go wrong, and that's why you wanna be in a major medical— facility, at least for your first birth. So you know what you're dealing with, 'cause everybody's bodies are different and every birth is different. And there's this magical thing that happens in your body. I don't know what it is. Some doctor can explain it, but it's true. You forget. 'Cause I think if, if women did not forget the pain of childbirth, none of us would have children.

Not a second one. But you forget and it's worth, it's worth it all and a hundredfold worth it. A thousandfold, infinitely worth it.

Mm. What parts of your own childhood did you want to recreate for your kids?

Playing in the front yard before and after dinner.

I love that.

I loved being outside and playing games on our lawn. I loved it. I especially loved it at dusk.

We did that a lot. What did you deliberately want to do differently from your own parents?

Um, you know, I don't know that I was able to do this, but I really wanted to be, uh, a little calmer, a little less reactive. I didn't achieve it, but, um, I think it's a very common experience to feel like— I've even heard my own mother talk about this, feeling like I had no idea what mood my mother was going to be in. And don't even get me started about my grandmother. And knowing what it must have felt like for her being in a big raucous family with a mother who literally is going to an institution and would come back after shock therapy and then, you know, be a little nicer but was mean. I think a lot of people have an experience like that. And even when your parents don't mean to be stressed out, you can be a really sensitive kid, which I was. And so I really wanted to just have a household that felt light and fun. And mine even was growing up, but there were— I remember being nervous a lot and nervous about people's moods and nervous people were upset. And I didn't want to put that on my kids.

And I know that I did. And I know that I still do. It's definitely something that I work on a lot. And it's very challenging because if you really think about it, like you're inside your mother and whatever state she's in, I believe this. I believe the medical experts that are now talking about the fact that the state of your mother when you were inside of her, Has an enormous impact on the way that your nervous system works. And how could it not? If your mom was under stress, if your mom, you know, was going through anything, of course it's gonna impact you. And I happen to have an extremely reactive nervous system. Like the second something seems off, I'm on high alert. The second somebody's mood is angry, I'm like— Amplifying. The second there's something stressful at work, like, I get very agitated and I don't wanna be that way. And so I didn't have the tools when I was younger. Nobody went to therapy in their 20s 30 years ago. Nobody could afford it. Nobody knew a therapist either. And there were no resources. You don't go to the self-help section at the public library 30 years ago because you would seem like a nutcase.

You kept it private, which means you suffered in private. And I was in this constant loop with myself where I would wake up and be like, okay, you can do it. And then the stress of life would take over and I'd snap at you kids and then I'd apologize and then feel like the world's crappiest mother. Or I'd be mad at your dad 'cause we were struggling financially and I was mad at him because he couldn't get his career together. And I felt a ton of pressure, which is kind of similar. to a lot of the pressure I feel now, come to think of it, that it's all on me. And it really triggers me.

Mm-hmm. I have a question.

Yeah.

Because I myself am also reactive. And I— You've noticed? I'm also reactive. I blow up. I get very emotionally flooded. And then I go silent.

Uh-huh.

And I can't process my emotions. fast enough to be able to communicate properly. And so I stay silent and then I just blow up. And I've noticed this pattern in me. I will not say where it has derived from, but when I think about my own— like, my own path and my own journey of becoming a mother, what can I do from now until then to help ease that even though I don't have kids to practice with or etc.? Obviously, I have you and other people who I'm reactive with, but I'm in therapy, I have tools, but like, I still have not mastered that.

Do you want me to listen, or do you want advice?

Great work! She's learning. Um, no, I want advice. Like, I, I, I know that it has taken you a lifetime, and you're still working on it, and I know it will take me a lifetime, and I'm still working on it. But like, I guess my ask is, what is the number one thing that has helped you?

Well, the number one thing that has helped me not be as emotionally reactive as I used to be is recognizing that I didn't want to be. When you make a decision that you no longer want to be this version of yourself, that's the first step to changing. And being in the cycle where you continue to be emotionally reactive, and then if you're like me, you blame it on work and then you apologize and then you're emotionally reactive and then you blame it on the stress of work or the stress of your parents or your stress of childcare or whatever it may be. You're just in a pattern, but you have not made a decision to change it. Yeah. Do not wait until you are a parent to try to change this. Your everyday life right now provides the opportunity for you to become less reactive. And one of the gifts of having a lot of emotional sensitivity is you're a deeply feeling person. You have incredible instincts. You care very deeply. It's a matter of going from 0 to 100 in a nanosecond and not being able to get yourself back down to a 50.

Yeah.

That's the issue. It's recognizing when it's happening and you're hitting 100, and then it is finding tools that get you to a 50 faster and without harming or sliming other people around you. Oh, that's a good point. And so number one, make a decision that you don't wanna be that way. Number 2, if I were doing this in my 20s, I would borrow— may I, may I? quote one of the experts on the podcast?

Yes.

For this purpose? Okay.

Always.

So I love the Gottmans. Gottman Institute, one of the most esteemed and respected and renowned researchers in the world on relationships. And they've been married for 40 years. And when they came on the podcast, it was like literally interviewing the Muppets.

I know.

They were so— I remember. Squeeze them. And they role-played. All of these scenarios where somebody gets emotionally agitated, and that would be me, I'm a volcano, and the other person gets emotionally flooded and shuts down. That's you and your father. And if you're a person that's a volcano like me and you get agitated and you're dealing with somebody like you who shuts down, your shutdown makes me more agitated 'cause I feel more alone.

I know.

And that just scares you more 'cause you start going, there's nothing I can do here. I don't know what to do here, which is exactly what happens to your dad. And we've been dealing with this dynamic for 30 years. This is incredibly common in couples. 'Cause if you think about it, 2 volcanoes together is an explosive relationship.

Yeah.

Doesn't work. But a volcano with somebody that goes silent, both of you have an opportunity to heal these patterns from your past and to work together at moving through moments where you're emotionally flooded and finding that connection.

Yeah.

And that's what a great relationship can do, is you can start working on it now. And Dr. Gottman did one of the coolest things. He has this trick because he is the one that goes like a turtle.

Okay.

Break my shell. She's mad. Hide.

That's me.

And dad. Yes. But you guys look stoic. So when you shut down, you have a face that doesn't look scared.

No, I look like I'm gonna like kill someone.

Yes.

Yeah.

And Dad just looks like he's on a different planet, which pisses me off because I'm like, no, you're not hearing me. No, I don't hear anything because I'm shut down and I'm a turtle in a shell right now. Um, but you probably feel unsafe.

Yeah.

And the irony is when I get like upset about something, I feel unsafe.

So Let me just ask you one question. When you, for those of us who shut down and we're with someone who blows up, what does make you feel safe? When someone yells back at you and someone's like—

No, no, no, no. I don't wanna be yelled at. No, no, no, no. Don't yell at me. Okay.

So what would make you feel safe in those very heightened moments?

It's 2 things. It's to have somebody acknowledge the stress or frustration or the thing that I'm upset by.

Okay. Calmly, of course.

Yeah. Calmly. Like, I understand you have a right to be upset. And that acknowledgement immediately makes me feel less alone. And then you saying, and I'm gonna give you a hug and then I'm gonna leave the room because you need to calm yourself down before I can help you talk about this.

Great. Okay. Back to the Gottmans.

So Dr. Gottman is a person that shuts down. He becomes a turtle. And he said whenever his wife, the volcano erupts, and we gotta talk about why did you leave the— and he is like, shut down. He has a technique where he has a little notepad. And he slowly pulls the notepad out of his pocket and he flips it open and he pulls out a pen as the other person's going crazy. And then he says, now slow down a minute. I just wanna make sure I'm getting this. And he then starts to write down what the person who's upset about is saying.

Mm-hmm.

And he said what that does is it slows his heart rate. And it helps him organize his thoughts. And it signals to you that you're not alone and that he's listening. And it's a way for him to calm himself down and get his thoughts down and stall until he can think of something to say.

Yeah, I love that tool because I, I feel like that's what's happening when I shut down is I'm like just stalling, like My brain is not working fast enough than what my body feels. And so it's not that I, like, I genuinely don't know what to say.

Yes. And that means your body is working correctly because if I'm a volcano, you're under threat. So your thinking skills go out the window because if you're under threat, you need to defend yourself.

Right.

You don't need to be thinking about anything. You need to run. Your heart is racing. You have the impulse to get outta there. You don't know what to do. So that's just a sign that you're in fight or flight. And so pulling out a notebook and be like, I understand. I know you're upset. You have a right to be upset. Hold on a second. Let me just get my notepad. That is just a— what that's doing is it's giving you a physical thing to do that helps you create a pause

between

the stimulus, the other person yelling, and you physically doing something, the notebook, flip it open, get the page out. Okay, I see that you're upset. I understand. Tell me what's going on. And that is how you can start to practice the pause and how you can start to go from 100, oh my God, I'm under threat, to start to bring yourself back down to 50.

What's one thing me, Kendall, and Oakley each individually have taught you about yourself?

Hmm. This is a great question. Well, let me, let me start with Oakley. So So Oakley almost dying when he was 5 days old, I think like really taught me how much I wanted to be a mom. Um, and how much you can love somebody in just 5 days, you know? And, uh, He is such a light, like even in the NICU, those big blue eyeballs. And he's still like that. He has taught me to be in a good mood for no reason. That's what Oaks taught me. Kendall, who I would say I'm probably the most She and I are the most similar. I think she's just, she's really shown me like what it's like when you have a deep calling and you have no choice but to follow it. Like I am, I am extremely moved and proud of her for pushing through all of her fears. And pursuing a very, very difficult career of wanting to be a recording artist and a musician and a singer-songwriter. And just watching her do it on her own and figure it out and wake up every day and chart a path in a career that doesn't have one.

And to know, as she says, there's no plan B. Like, she is a burn the boats person. And she's definitely taught me that a lot of success in life and a lot of meaning in life comes from having something that means a lot to you that you're committed to no matter what, through all the doubt, through the ups and downs. She's definitely taught me a lot about that. And also, I think what a gift it is to share your gifts with people. Like, I have this friend, Carl, who says, you know, when you get to heaven, you got to make sure your pockets are empty. You got a lot of gifts to give in this lifetime, whether it's your smile or a book you're going to write, or in her case, a song that you're meant to sing. Do not get to heaven with your pockets full. You want to give your gifts while you're here. And so that sounds straightforward, but it's not always that straightforward. There's a lot that you have to confront in order to feel worthy of the gifts that you want to give, to give yourself permission to give those gifts, to keep giving the gift even when nobody wants to receive it, to see the value in it when maybe nobody else does.

And then that brings me to you, Soy, and what you've taught me. You have taught me to be brave. I cannot believe the things that you have taken on. I cannot believe it. The other thing you've taught me is having conviction about something. I remember in 7th grade, we went to visit your grandmother, JJ, and she was living for 4 months in Cambodia teaching English at an elementary school. This was what she did to find purpose after losing her husband, your grandfather of 40 years. And we went over there to visit her and we came back and you turned to us and you said, I wanna go back and go back to Cambodia. And we're like, well, that's great. That was a once in a decade trip, dude. Like, calm down. We don't have the money. We're— that was a once in a lifetime trip. We're not doing that again. And then you were like, no, no, no, I'm going to the principal. And I, no, I don't think you understand. I'm going. And then you did it again when you said, when I graduated from college, I am— Going. traveling solo around Asia. And you worked for 3 years and you saved all the money.

And then to my complete horror, you and your backpack got on a plane. And what I also love about you is that you have the courage of the conviction and then you make it happen and you spend the first 3 days hyperventilating and crying.

Yep. Always.

Talk to me about that.

I feel like I'm so— I know exactly what I want a lot of the time, and I think about those things for years. So, like, the Asia thing when I was 13, that was just a very rare, like, I have to do this in my body, soul. Like, I am gonna make this happen. I'm gonna homeschool myself. I'm going to go to the principal. I'm going to go for 4 months and teach English to Cambodian kids. I'm gonna bring all my textbooks. Like, that was— I think set me on a very clear trajectory of always putting myself out there. And—

And then, just to be clear, for the first 2 weeks, we did Zoom calls every day where you would be sobbing uncontrollably in this very dark hotel room. And I felt like the world's worst mother. And then I started to have nightmares. What happens if J.J. dies and she's over there alone? There is nobody else. What am I doing? I have sent my daughter to Cambodia with a 77-year-old. What kind of mother am I? Like, what, what happens if something happens? She has epilepsy. What, what, what if she has a seizure? Like, and I started— but anyway, within 2 weeks you were a different person. You weren't crying. Yeah.

I think that I always like panic. I can get myself there. I can get myself on the plane. I can get myself to do the hard thing. I can get myself in the chair. But once I'm sitting there for the first, it's finally then that I realize that I'm doing it. And then all the fear and all the angst and all the reality of it happening hits me then versus before my decision. Hmm. And so then I have to, like, own my decision because I'm sitting in it. And I think that there's a lot of experiences in my life that have made me sit in those experiences, whether it's Cambodia, whether it's going to camp and crying for 2 weeks straight and sending letters home because I have no technology that, like, I hate my life, pick me up. And then after 2 weeks, I'm like, I love it, don't pick me up. And there's just like a lot of experiences that I've put myself in that have forced me to move through those really hard moments in the beginning, but I always know that I'm better off for it in the end.

You know what's really cool about this is that it kind of shows you there's 2 types of people.

It's the same thing about going on tour.

What do you mean?

When I literally cried myself, like, to sleep for 2 weeks straight when we went on tour for the first time and the second time because I was so nervous about speaking on stage. But I had already committed. I had already planned the whole tour. I had already gotten all the content together. Like, we had co-created this, and then it was the night before where I'm about to go out on stage where I have a full-blown—

Diarrhea attack.

Hyperventilating panic screaming attack.

It was so bad that In the morning in Australia, I actually thought, okay, she's, she needs to go home. Like she can't do this.

Yeah.

But I'm gonna have to do this entire thing on my own. And it's a tour that's written for 2 people.

But the whole time that I'm screaming, crying, I'm saying like, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I just need to like move through that.

What's interesting is that you, there's 2 types of people. There are people who feel that fear before they commit.

Mm-hmm.

And they never commit. And they spend their entire life thinking about what they want, but feeling emotionally flooded and talking themselves out of it before they even do it.

Mm-hmm.

And what you are talking about is this ability to be brave, and bravery does not exist without fear. You have this ability through the courage of your convictions to commit. Knowing that once you land in the seat, you're going to hate it. You're going to get emotionally flooded and become a turtle with diarrhea who's crying for 2 weeks and regretting it. But you then remind yourself, I can do this. I can do this. I can do this. I can do this. This is just the hard part. And my hard part comes after it starts, not before. That's a gift that it comes after.

Yeah.

Wow.

I think it's a gift, but it's also, I've like trained myself. To be like that. Like, I've put myself in situations where I had no out. I was in Cambodia. I'm not flying home tomorrow. We barely have the money to fly me over there. Like, I'm at camp. I have no way of contacting you to come home. I'm going on service trips in other places in the United States, and I am unable to leave. So it— I think growing up has always been, there's no other options. It's all always through. You have no out. Yeah.

The obstacle is the way. Hello, Ryan Holiday.

Yes.

What do you hope I understand about you as my mom that I may not fully understand yet?

Just how much stress I'm under right now and how hard I'm trying. And that I don't mean to have a terrible tone of voice. It's actually the one thing I don't want to be is harsh and hostile and to take my emotions out on you guys. And you're not, it's not your fault. And it's not your responsibility to fix the things that are stressing me out or to make me happy or to calm me down. And I apologize that for a lot of your life, you probably felt like you had to walk on eggshells, or you were tired of having a mom and you didn't know what mood she was going to be in, or you were bracing as I was walking in the door because 9 times out of 10, I was stressed or pissed off at your dad because we were struggling. And I wish I could have handled that better because as a child, It's not fair that I put my adult stress on you. And I'm still working at it.

You've come such a long way though, like truly. And I've seen you put in all the work. I've seen you regulate your nervous system. I've seen you use the tools that you've been given from your therapist. And she's meditating every single morning and night to try to calm it down. So I do really want to give you credit for continuing to work at it. And no one's perfect. And Like you said, everyone does the best job that they can with what they were given, and you have done the best job you have been able to do with what you were given.

Okay. Well, I am horrified whenever I experience myself acting in a hostile or reactive way because it's the last thing I want to be. And I don't want to leave people in a state where they're nervous around what kind of mood I'm going to be in. And it's a hard thing to manage when you're going through a very stressful period in your life or career, which I am right now. And so it's very much front of mind.

Yeah.

And I think you guys see me as somebody who's like super strong and very opinionated and bulldozing through life. And that's my outside demeanor. Like when I come home, I am still wanna have fun. I still, I need hugs. I need more compliments. I, you know, want to have more girl time and be softer with each other. Mm-hmm. And you guys favor Dad so much and lift Dad up, and he's an amazing human, and I lift him up too, and he's my favorite person. And I also imagine that because I get so much public, Like attention that you're compensating for what dad may not be receiving. And it does feel a little bit like he's everybody's favorite and I'm the monster.

Mm-hmm. Well, I thank you for sharing that, and I know you've shared that forever, and I am sorry that you feel that way. And I think that me, Kendall, and Oakley, we are never intending to make you feel on the outside or making— it is never our intention to make you feel like Dad's our favorite. I think that we have grown up receiving love from you and Dad in very different ways.

Mm-hmm.

You, because your mother did this, Your love growing up was gifts.

Yes.

Your love growing up was solving problems. Your love growing up was, let's go on a big shopping spree. That is how you showed your love. So we learned that if we want something, go to mom. It is very hard to rewire that. And so if you want that to change, then Let's talk about it and let's work on it. But that is in our nervous system. When we grew up with Dad, the way in which Dad showed us love was listening. He was also the stay-at-home parent, so he was with us 24/7. And as a result, for anything that's joyful or news or whatever, we go to him because he listens. You are a practical problem solver.

Yes.

And he is a passive problem solver.

What does that mean? I love this. Okay.

You are a practical problem solver. I come to you for tasks.

Yes.

I come to you for checkboxes.

Yep.

Because I know—

It checks.

It checks.

My head checks.

I would never go to Dad for a doctor's appointment. I would never go to Dad for a medical reason. Whenever I've been in the hospital or anything, which has been like twice, but like I've called you. Like, you are for emergencies, you are for flights, you are for like, I need stuff to get done. I trust Mom. I don't trust Dad. And you look at that as a bad thing. Hmm. We go to Dad when we want to be heard because we don't want a solution. We don't want me to come to you with boyfriend troubles or other thing troubles and you to be like, well, Here's a therapist that you should really get him into. Oh, here's a doctor's appointment that I'll set him up with. Oh, here's 5 tips from this podcast guest that if you don't listen to that episode, your relationship's not changing. Like, we go to you for different things.

Yes.

Nothing is better or worse. You look at it as worse.

Fair.

Dad has expressed he would love for us to come to him for helpful tasks. He wishes that we would go to him for money and we don't. Ever. It demoralizes him that we don't go to things to him that we go to for you. You guys both feel the same way, but you don't communicate about that. You just feel like Dad is our hero and you are like a failure.

Well, I don't communicate with Dad about it because it's not an issue that I have with Dad. It's an issue I have with you guys.

Well, I think you need to change your perspective, or we need

to— That's very helpful.

Because, like, if you want us to come to you for good news, then I think even using that tool we talked about today about, like, great, let me just listen. And I think another difference between you and Dad is, like, like you said, Dad is a slow processor.

I should say deep processor. Deep processor. Slow's judgy.

But he's very— you solve a problem with him. With you, you solve the problem. And it's like, I'm going to you when I have 5 minutes, I'm going to Dad when I have 2 hours. And I feel like because of that, he is forced to listen. He is forced to be there. He is very present with us. And I think sometimes with you, if we come to you, it feels like you have, because of your ADD, ADHD, like you literally have 50 million things on your mind. So it doesn't actually feel like you're present with us.

Hmm.

So if I want to talk about something that's really hard to talk about or deep, or I really want someone, my parents' attention, I'm probably not going to come to you because I don't feel like you're going to give me the presence that I think I want or deserve.

That makes sense. I can work on that.

Yeah.

When I have time. I'm just kidding. No, I appreciate that. It makes a lot of sense.

I also feel like it has a lot to do with the fact that for some reason, As a daughter, and I know you feel like this with your own mom, like, I care so much more about your validation than I do Dad's, and I care so much more about what you think of me than Dad.

Really?

Yeah. And I know Kendall feels the same way, and I don't think it has to do with the fact that you have a big career. I don't think it has to do with the fact that what you've created in your life or who you are as a person. I see this in all my friends.

Do you think it's because a lot of us are emotionally dysregulated? Yes. And unstable. And so the approval is actually, you're, you're seeking calmness and safety and belonging rather than, I don't know, like I—

Well, I feel like there's a lot of like, like women have been suppressed for decades. And I think now we're in a generation and an age where women more than ever are empowered to be choosing their own adventure and making decisions in their life and choosing who they get to marry versus being forced. And I think the— it's almost like the overwhelming amount of agency we feel as women.

Hmm.

Brings resentment. It's like flip-flopped. Like before it was all, I have no agency and I'm completely reliant on my husband. And now I have all the agency and all the possibilities and all the ability to make my life the best it could possibly be. And I'm the caregiver and I'm doing the dishes and I'm doing the lunches and I'm still taking care of the kids. And I now have to make just as much money as my husband to be able to afford a house. Like, it's almost like there's so much more added onto our plate. And I don't know why that connects directly to mother-daughters, but I can look around like everyone in this room right now and think about every one of my friends. And there's 9 times out of 10, it's about the mother that is brought up. Rarely are my friends talking about their dads. Hmm.

Huh.

And I just feel like there's so much— there's such an imprint of you on us and such a desire for us to be our own person and find our own way and not feel like— I don't know, I, I bet a lot of it has to do with honestly growing inside of you and just feeling so much energetic connection. Because we talk about this all the time, as soon as my mom rolls her eyes or I, like, my tone goes completely angry, we notice it immediately. The energy shifts immediately. I notice it with my friends. We had this huge mother-daughter weekend. I went to Boston College and I had 10 girls and their 10 moms up in Vermont. This was a few years ago at this point. And you just looking around, you could tell immediately who was in a fight. who was having fun, who was pissed off at each other. Like, it's crazy how much our energies are intertwined.

Hmm.

And I have heard stories of, like, some colleagues being like— who don't necessarily have a great relationship with their mom— like, as soon as someone says one word incorrectly, it's like my whole nervous system is shut down.

Hmm.

And I feel like it has a lot more to do with how connected we are than how disconnected we are. What do you think?

I agree with you. I think there's a much bigger role that society plays in it, in how women are treated and feel, and the amount of stress that women are under, and shifting gender roles and dynamics, and the both opportunities, as you said it, and the pressures that it creates. And the thing that I find interesting though is just how hardwired we are to each other's moods.

Yes. And how hardwired we are to take care of each other. Like, you feel so much pressure to take care of your kids and provide and be the mother, but we feel equally as much pressure to take care of you and Dad and make sure that you guys are feeling good, your moods are happy, you're feeling positive. Like, It goes both ways. Hmm. And it feels like you as an adult feel this innate need to take care of us, but it flips. Like, you guys get old and then we're taking care of you and wiping your ass. Like, we're all both trying to take care of each other and trying to make sure we're both okay. And you feel that responsibility, but I think What parents don't understand about their kids is that we equally feel that. We equally want you to be good. We equally want you to not be going through a hard time and trying to do everything in our power to solve that. But half the time we don't have the tools to do so, but you do.

Yeah. You know, one thing that I love about our relationship is the ability to sit down and just crack this open.

Yeah.

And talk openly about it. Is there anything else that, uh, I could do that you may be afraid to ask or that, um, you maybe even didn't know that you needed from me or I didn't know that you need?

No, I think what I'll share is something that actually Kendall brought up the other day, which was so helpful and I've never really thought about. And she shared that she learned this from her therapist, to ask for what you need more. And so, and I think this could go for anyone, but so many times we come downstairs and we're in a pissed off mood or we blow up or something's bothering us and we just repeat the pattern that we always do. Mm-hmm. Whether it's shut down or vent or scream or cry or whatever it is. And we become completely irrational and then stomp all over everyone who is around us instead of coming down and being like, hey, I need a hug, or I need to be alone right now, or I need to work for 6 more hours. And just asking right up front for what you need versus assuming that everyone knows what you need. Mm-hmm. Because I think that we had a really long, productive conversation about how When one of us goes into one of those tornado modes, everyone else is not only walking on eggshells, but also trying to fix the other person's mood.

And so many times we never actually acknowledge when the tornado is over.

Hmm.

We just move on with our day, and then for the rest of the day everyone's worried about the one person who's in a bad mood.

Hmm.

And instead, just knocking it out of the park right in the beginning, of, hey, Soy, I need to cry right now. Or, hey, Soy, can I— would love some assistance with organizing my closet. Can you please come and help me? Versus like just blowing up crying, being like, oh my God, I'm so stressed out about blah blah blah blah blah, let me just like flood and vent and puke all over you. And then you're left feeling disheveled and crazy. And so I think that that's something that not necessarily you only need to do, like me, you, and Kendall need to do, and our trio dynamic is just ask each other more for what we need right up front.

That's great. I agree.

Well, I love you. Thank you so much for joining me in this amazing conversation. Is there anything that I need to do differently as your daughter?

Um, my wish for you, and you're already doing it, is to really go to town and attack that emotional flooding that happens.

So exactly what you need to do also.

Pretty much, because I basically made your nervous system. So with a combination of Dad's DNA plus you being in my body, and the birth was pretty scary, so God knows, like, what happened there. But I, I feel that what a gift that you at the age of 27 can be talking about this and recognizing this in yourself. And so I would say, stay focused on that and the rest of your life will work out because you will not be ruled by your emotions. You will feel them, but you will be able to communicate through them and think through them and choose how to respond rather than having them run you over the way they have. Mm-hmm. My whole life. That's what my life has been like for 50-plus years. And that's why I'm working hard to not have it be like that.

Amazing. I love you. Thank you so much.

Thank you. And thank you, Mr. Noodle, for staying on my lap. And thank you. Thank you for being here with me and Sawyer. Thank you for listening to this. Thank you for sharing it with your daughter or your mother or your sister or anybody in your life that you care deeply about. And in case nobody else tells you, as your friend, I'm gonna tell you that I love you and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And so I hope that there was something that we shared today that resonated, that was helpful, that you're walking away from this conversation feeling closer to yourself and having something that you can start to practice or share with somebody else. And that's it. I'll see you next time. Bye. in the next episode. I'll welcome you in the moment you hit play. What is the topic today?

The topic is parenting.

Questions about parenting?

Questions about parenting.

You're not pregnant, are you?

Nope.

Okay. Because I'll answer questions about parenting. I don't know how I feel about grandparenting at the moment.

No, no baby in the oven.

No baby yet. Okay. Yet. Well, that's your choice. Your body, your choice. Okay.

Um, um,

do you agree?

I— oh yes.

Okay,

sorry,

your silence makes it seem like, yeah, she's lying.

I'm trying to think of my next question. Yes, I completely agree.

Why don't you go to therapy?

Okay.

And then when you're done, we'll have you sit back in the chair and do some reactions, and we'll close it out and come back to that one.

Okay, let me just rapid-fire some of these, and then you— and then don't answer. Um,

should I make these positive or negative?

You have to say something.

Is your yeast infection gone? Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know, what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.