Transcript of To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. So earlier this year, our oldest daughter, Sawyer, went through the single biggest heartbreaker of her life. The guy that she had been in a relationship with for two years, they broke up. And I'm going to tell you something, we were all devastated. His family was devastated. We were devastated, but they were really devastated. It was one of the hardest experiences I've gone through as a parent to watch my child mourn and experience heartbreak. I really didn't know how to support her. I wouldn't have been able to talk about this with you months ago because I want to respect her privacy and his privacy, and we were just in it. But it's seven months later, and Sawyer and I have dug into this, and we've done the research and reflected on her experience and my experience. I am so excited to be able to tell you that we have put together the official Mel Robbins podcast, Breakup Survival Guide, that is going to help you move through heartache, and it's going to help you support people that you love who are going through a breakup.

Because the fact is, as painful as these experiences are, you can move through it. And on the other side of it is an unbelievably powerful, wiser, and more loving version of you.

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Make it a BSQ day. Hey, it's your friend Mel. Welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I am so thrilled that you're here. I have been wanting to talk about heartbreak and breakup with you for a long time, and today is the day. And so thank you for being here. If you are brand new to the Mel Robbins podcast, I want to welcome you to the Mel Robbins podcast family. You have picked a remarkable conversation to listen to. I am sure you're listening to this if you're new because somebody that you love sent this to you. And so thank you for choosing to press play. The fact that you press play on this particular episode tells me that you really do know that you deserve an incredible life, that you deserve to be happy, that you deserve to feel love. And the conversation today is going to leave you empowered. It's going to give you very specific things to do. This is stuff that I wish that I had known way back in the day when I've gone through breakups and heartaches. These are tools that you're going to learn based on what my daughter found incredibly helpful as she was going through the biggest heartbreak of her life earlier this year.

Speaking of that, Sawyer, thank you for being here with me.

Thank you for having me, Mom.

Of course. Thank you for doing this because you're a private person This was a extremely painful experience for you to go through this breakup. I just really appreciate you being willing to come on and talk about not the details of the breakup, but how the breakup impacted you. We're going to cover a lot today. I just want to start by saying, whether you are listening to us right now and you're in the middle of the tsunami, You just found out that the person that you love is cheating. It's over. Somebody pulled you aside. Relationships, over. You've had the conversation about commitment or taking the relationship to the next level. They don't want it. You might be going through a divorce, or you're in this stage where you just keep dating people over and over and over, and now you don't want to date again. This conversation is for you. This conversation is also for you if you are watching someone that you love, go through heartbreaker breakup. I want to start by saying that I am not going to tell you to love yourself because that's the last freaking thing you want to hear right now, and it's the world's worst advice.

Why is that the worst advice, soar?

Because you hate yourself after a breakup. You feel insecure, you feel disgusting, you feel unwashed you feel wanted, you feel undesirable, you feel rejected. Trying to, quote, love yourself when the person you really wanted to feel love from is impossible. I think no one knows how to just fall back in love with their self immediately. I think another thing that people say is, get back out there, distract yourself, get back into work, pour yourself into so many different avenues just so you don't think about the person. But the reality is, you think about them all day, every day. It's unavoidable. Other people pressuring you to get back into your own life, and you're expected to go back to your 9:00 to 5:00, and perform, and get back in the family. Pretend you're having fun with friends when you're inside crying and It's really hard. I think that is another thing that I would avoid saying. Just letting people feel what they need to feel in these moments is the answer.

I would love for you to speak directly to the person listening. In particular, I want you to remember what it felt like seven months ago when the breakup hit and you were now single and you were staring down an entire summer with canceled plans and the person that you love moving on. If the person who's in the middle of that, devastated, if they take everything to heart that we are about to share today, and all of the little tools, and the framework that we're give you for how we want you to look at this moment in your life, what could they expect to change if they put this to use?

Well, the first thing I will say is I've been there very wholeheartedly, and not crying and talking to my friends about it, but on the ground, convulsive crying, and my mom holding me as I'm flailing, having a panic attack. So been there, done that. You are not But what I will say is no one knows how to support you as you're going through a breakup. I think what you will get out of this guide is not only how to support yourself through this, but also how to ask for help from other people as you're moving through this, which I am horrible at doing and never asked for help and felt like I could do it all my own or cry alone in my room with my therapist, but not actually ask the people who are right in front of me. I think that these tools and tricks, what I love about them is you can do them immediately. They suck just like any other healthy way to go through a breakup, but they work. Versus someone saying, Push through it, girlfriend. You got this. That is so unhelpful. Often, that's what people say. You just got to go through it, Sawyer.

Move through it. What the hell does that even mean? Okay, do I need to be sitting on the floor absolutely sobbing? Maybe. Yeah, and I did, but that didn't help. That was not a tool for me to activate and for me to use to move through it. That was me processing it.

Oh, hold the phone. That's a huge, huge takeaway. One of the first things to understand is the difference between processing a breakup and then what you do to support yourself or someone you love as they move through a break up and start to build a life without this person. Because that's what you're doing. I think that is a genius distinction because we collapse the two into one, which is the advice sucks. The advice, push through it. Get on a revenge diet. Another horrendous thing to do, by the way, because a revenge diet is all about you getting in better shape and taking better care of yourself and looking better because you're taking better care of yourself to get back at someone else, which basically means you're still attached to this person that dumped you. The motivation is tied to this person who's no longer in your life, which, by the way, keeps them in your life. If you want to get healthy, if you want to prioritize yourself, which you should, do it for you. But don't you dare do it as a revenge diet? That's going to backfire because it keeps this relationship and this person in your life when If you're in a breakup, you got to move on and build a life without them.

But there you go. That's not what I want to hear. The thing about breaking up is that I want to keep this person in my mind for as long as possible. I want to feel bad about myself. I want to punish myself by going on a revenge diet or doing this or stalking them on Instagram or checking their location or making fantasies up in my mind about what their kids are going to look like with some other girl. I think that that is the issue is that people going through a breakup, we all want to keep the idea in our mind of what the life we had could have been. We do that through everything.

What are the ways in which you kept your boyfriend front and center in your mind? I'm talking after you broke up because I want you to to normalize, because we're going to break our conversation today into two huge revolutionary epiphanies. The first one is to teach you what it means to process a breakup. We're not going to just talk about it on terms that you can all relate to. We're going to dive deep into what's actually happening in your body, because processing a breakup is a neurological, physiological, and chemical process where you unlearnt the patterns of your life. Because when you're in a relationship, you become intertwined neurologically, physiologically, and psychologically with the other person. You're going to have to process the untangling and de-programming of having this person in your life day to day. It's why everybody who gets broken up with does whatever they can to keep the person front and center in their mind? Because you're used to it, you're intertwined. What are some of the things that you would do every day that kept your boyfriend right there on your mind and kept you in the middle of the breakup instead of truly processing it through your body, mind, and spirit?

First, I'll talk about what I was doing wrong to keep us intertwined. Then I will tell you about what my therapist shared with me to start the unwinding process which was painful but very, very effective. How I kept me and him intertwined in my mind was what I think a lot of us do these days, which is stalking them on Instagram constantly, posting photos of myself that with the goal of not, Oh, I love this photo of myself, but more so, Did he like it? Did he like it? Did he see it? Did he see it? And I think other days are just thinking about him 24/7. And instead of doing a meditation or trying to switch the channel in my mind or go for a walk or distract myself, I would just spiral in in my mind, and I would end up sobbing. It would just be, how can I make myself think about his future with other people? That's not me. It's true. It's like, how can I keep our relationship alive in my mind while it's not even existing? Other ways I did it were just constantly looking at old photos of us, constantly looking at videos of us, writing in my journal about him.

Obviously, again, that's helpful. It's processing, but to what extent? Another way that I would keep us entwined in my mind and to not let go of this idea that our future is over is I would bring him up in conversation all the time. Let's say his name is Darren. I would always bring up, Oh, me and Darren used to do that, or, Oh, Darren loves that. That's his favorite meal, or not necessarily even about our breakup, but just ways to bring him up as if we were still together when we were very much not. Or, Darren's mom loves that, or she used to get me that sweater. It was every little thing to try to keep him alive in my mind. I was very aware of it, too. No one ever brought it up with me or made me feel bad about it, but I noticed it myself and realized this is not healthy and I need to stop myself. Myself, whenever I have a thought that rises, and instead of just blurting it out, I need to calm it down. I need to let him. I need to move forward.

There was a very interesting twist on all this because as you were going through this, and I would go from watching you wear pajamas for five days in a row and never changing, and you're clearly in a depressive state. Then I would think you were okay because you were going to go exercise. Then I'd walk to where you were exercising, you're on the floor crying. I just wanted to fix it. I just wanted it to be okay. I had so much anxiety and discomfort watching you go through heartbreak that I didn't know what to say. I didn't know how to say it. To put an even bigger twist on this, Sawyer and I at the time were working on researching the section of the Let Them Theory Book, All About Love and Breakups. Here she was going through the biggest breakup of her life.

Do you want to hear something really ironic?

Yes.

That the morning of I was writing the breakup section of the new Let Them Theory book and writing this entire list, Let them go and with other people. Let them move on. Let them get fit and hot, and let them love another person more than you. Let them not send you flowers anymore. Let them, let them, let them. That night, I get broken up with. Next morning, Dolly. I was like, Absolutely not. That's not what I want to hear. Let him go and do whatever he wants. No. It's so ironic that we were writing this book together, and I I literally was writing the heartbreak chapter as I was not only getting broken up with, but moving through this. I was like, That's the universe. Hello.

It sure is. I want to read A section from the Let Them book because we're talking about the first step, which is just understanding what the breakup actually is. This first part, which is processing it. This is in the section on love. I'm reading from page 283, and it's a section called Surviving Heartbreak. I want to speak directly to you or someone you love who's going through heartbreak. This will be One of the hardest things you ever experience. You're going to get through this. The worst thing someone can say to you when a relationship has just ended is that you should focus on loving yourself. That is the world's worst advice because when you're going through heartbreak, you often hate yourself. You question everything. You wonder if you'll ever find love again. You want your old life back. You wish you could go back to the way things were. You want what you used to have. It feels like your heart is shattering because it is. What you're feeling is grief. The life you thought you were going to live has died. Just like the experience of losing a loved one, when you go through heartbreak, you will experience all of the same stages of grief, and it's going to consume you.

For days, weeks, even months, you will think of this person nonstop. You're going to have to resist the urge all day, every day, to text or call or listen to their voice memos or look at the photos or check their location or watch their online stories. I didn't know what to do to support Sawyer. I reached out to my therapist, and I write about this in the book. I was speaking to my therapist, Anne, about this. This is what she explained. This is where my entire understanding of what break hiccups and heartbreak really are, and why it's so hard, and why you need to understand that you have to give yourself space to process, and that this is critical. Listen to what Anne said. We write about this on page 284. It hurts so deeply because everything about them is intertwined in your nervous system. They have been a part of you and you have been a part of them for a long time. It's why you can still feel their presence and you can hear their voice. You're so used to talking to them every day, and so you naturally want to reach out.

Yes, you miss them, but your nervous system also misses them. The ways in which they've become intertwined with your experience of life. This is normal. What my therapist was explaining is the neurological, psychological, physiological, and chemical aspect of what it feels like to experience heartbreak. It's the same thing as grief. You have to unlear your life with them so that you can start living your life without them. That's why you have to Give yourself time to process this enormous change in your body and your mind and your spirit and your patterns. As you walk down the street or you drive in your car, you're going to imagine that they're there next to you. As you have a thought, you can almost hear what they would say back to you. If something good happens, you're going to feel yourself wanting to share it with them. If something changes in your family, you'll wish you could tell them. I even felt this related to you and him. I know his parents did, too. That as things were happening in both of our families, we were so used to texting each other and sharing photos that I... I mean, I'm not even in a relationship with them.

I felt bad that I felt that, but it's true. If you think about the fact that you have to process the experience of someone no longer being part of the experience of your life, that context makes you think about this differently and have more compassion for yourself. It makes you realize that you're not some weak weirdo. Your body is wired to do life with this person. You are learning how to not do life with this person. That's what all of these first several painful months in the heartache is all about, because it's not just that your heart is breaking. It's all these patterns in your It's the circuitry in your body. It's your nervous system. It's the thoughts in your mind. It's the images in your heart. It's the songs you used to listen to. I used to feel like I was hurting you if I listened to Noah Khan, Sawyer, because he's the one that introduced me to him. It's true. It's true that it's a process. When you get dressed for work, when you climb into bed at the end of the day, when you wake up alone in the morning, they're going to be the first thing on your mind.

Yeah. I think the biggest thing that my therapist said to me is that when you go through heartbreak, it's the exact same thing as when someone dies because one day they're in your life and the next day they're not. You can't reach out to them, you can't call them, and all you want to do is do just that. It's almost like you go through these stages of grief while knowing they're actually still there.

One of my favorite songs by John Maher is in the Atmosphere.

Living in the Atmosphere.

I don't know. Is that what it's called? Yes, it is. Okay. Because you've listened to it on repeat?

Yes, I know it.

It is a song about a breakup because he has this one line that haunts me where he talks about watching your life play out from pictures from afar. Then he talks about how he goes to the city where this person is, and he says, I'd die if I saw you, but I'd die if I didn't see you there. Oh, my God. It just makes me cry. Sawyer, you really worked on this part of the book in the middle of this, and you write this paragraph. You'll live in the fear and in hope of bumping into them. You'll watch their life play out in pictures. You'll be terrified of the day that you learn they've met someone else. The hardest part about a breakup is that you have to go through it. There's no avoiding it. You experience it in every cell of your body because you must unlear what it was like to be with them and learn how to live your life again without them. This is why so many of you hold on for so long. And let them will not make this easy. Let will not remove the pain. Let them helps you process the reality that they're no longer there.

Totally.

That brings me to this rule of thumb that my therapist, who also happens to be your therapist, we talk about her as the smartest person we've ever met. Her name is Anne Davin. Anne has this incredible rule of thumb that we also write about in the Let Them Theory book. This is not easy. You're going to hate this. But here it is. No contact for 30 days. None. No contact, 30 days. The reason why is that any contact at all, whether it's seeing a photo, but particularly their voice, she said, you cannot watch videos, you cannot listen to voice memos because their Their voice is so supercharged in terms of its coding in your body and your nervous system and your brain, that the second you hear their voice, it will activate all the old patterns in your nervous system, and it forces you to take a huge step back in the processing and unlearning of life with this person. Can you talk about that a little bit? Because you went through it, and I'm going to be honest with you. When you told me that Anne said, no contact, 30 days, no photos. I was a good mom.

I went to our Aura digital frame, and they got a handy feature where you can hide photos. I remember sitting on the couch, just tearing up, hiding all the photos of the two of you so they wouldn't be on the frame in the kitchen.

Thank you for that.

You're welcome. Can you talk a little bit? Because I was thinking there, I don't know if I could go 30 days. I was the most anxiously attached person. I would have been a stalker. I would have been that psycho girlfriend that shows up on your doorstep. I don't know that I could have gone 30 days, but you stuck to this. What was it like and what did you do and why did you do it?

The thing about this heartbreak is it's not my first, but it's definitely the worst. I definitely learned from my first heartbreak in that I reached out immediately, we got back together, and that set the standard for the next five years of my life. It was a constant coming in and out of each other's lives. I could not get over him. I was so miserable. I think that I really learned from that in that clearly the contact is the death of me. When our therapist, Anne, told me the day after I got my heart broken, this time around, that you cannot reach out for 30 days, of course, that was very effective advice. But I was like, shoot, I really want to reach out. I have 25 impulses every single day to reach out to him, call him, text him on Instagram and on social media. Every single funny video, I would literally go to send it to him and then realize we're not together anymore. I can't send this. And it's unlearning all those patterns, untangling our nervous systems, And I think when she said, You cannot reach out for 30 days, it was really hard, but it also was a challenge.

It gave me something to work towards. And I think that that really helped me because I had nothing else to go off of. And I was considering reaching out multiple times and every single- Every day. Every day. I think that I was just so determined to unlear the pattern of what I did previously of going back. I wouldn't say wasting, but going through five years of my life with the same person that I knew we both weren't meant to be together, and I wasn't going to allow myself to do that again. That is the only reason why I stuck it out for 30 days. But But, not being said, morning of the 30th day. What's up? You checked the box. Oh, my gosh. July 12th. Ring, ring, ring. I know the exact day. I was so proud of myself. But I think that it really... What I will say is, and what Anne said to me is, I'm so proud of you for waiting 30 days. I think it honestly did really me unlear a lot of the patterns because when I picked up the phone, of course, I'm an emotional person, sobbing immediately.

But what was it like to hear his voice for the first time, having not spoken to him for 30 days?

Yeah. Well, I remember having pretty much a panic attach and nerves and anxious bathroom breaks and absolute everything was going on. But I can now look back and again, realize I probably shouldn't have reached out. I think it did set me back. While I did feel better, I personally don't really believe in closure. I think it didn't give me the closure I was looking for.

Well, let's stop there because I think we want someone else to say something to make you feel better, and that's why we seek closure. But what closure actually means now that we're defining a breakup and this 30-day rule as giving yourself this space to start processing the separation in your nervous system and the grieving that you need to do, is that I think people seek closure because they don't understand the fact that they're grieving and that they are having to process this de-programming of life with another person. The closure, you think, is just going to somehow reset your nervous system and you're going to be fine. That's going to be that. It doesn't actually happen because that work is internal.

100%. I think no one else can ever give you closure.

Here's the other point I'm going to say, because I know somebody is listening to us right now and go, Oh, no, no, no. When he told me he was in love with somebody else and was cheating, that closed the door. Well, what it actually did was force you to process it because you knew then there was no going back. It was you holding out hope and you checking in and you having this relationship alive in your mind that didn't allow for the closure. You didn't actually process because you didn't follow this rule of absolutely no contact for 30 days. This feels like a really good point to take a quick pause and hear a word from our sponsors because I really want you to just settle in what we just shared with you. Because I think we all have that past relationship, that if we could go back in time, we'd do it differently. For me, what's helped me a lot so that I don't just wallow in shame and beat the hell out of myself is to really look for the lesson and the fact that had I known this, had I had this breakup guide, had I had these tools, I wouldn't have acted like that.

I didn't know. In the famous words, of Maya Angelou, now that you know better, you can do better. And by sharing this with you as you're listening, I hope we save you the heartache that we have caused ourselves and other people unnecessarily, and that You don't have to do that because you now know. If you share this with someone in your life, you actually save them from causing themselves or other people the headache and heartache that they will otherwise go through because they don't know. That's how we help each other through this thing called life. All righty, don't go anywhere because we got so much more to share with you, and we'll be waiting for you after this short break.

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Welcome back. It's your friend Mel. Today, I'm here with my daughter, and we are sharing the Breakup Survival Guide. We were just talking about this huge topic of your nervous system and unlearning and toxic patterns that you get into, whether it's thinking about the fantasy in your mind or the way you keep latching on to other people or going back to them or torturing yourself or stalking them legally. I'm talking like the social media stuff here, and how you shouldn't and you don't have to do that. This toolkit and everything we're teaching you is going to make you wiser and more self-aware so you can support yourself and choose a different response. I would also love for you to just talk a little bit, Sawyer, about the difference between taking the 30 days of no contact and truly separating versus what you did throughout college, back and forth with somebody that you never truly separated from. Because it wasn't just on your side or his side. It was that both of you wouldn't move on. Do you think if there had been, if you had followed what you're about to talk about now, that processing and force separation would have allowed you to move forward and not be in a dynamic that wasn't healthy for either one of you for all those years?

Yeah, I literally wrote that down right now. I wrote down if I had had these tools that we're about to talk about, including the 30-day rule, including the reality that you and another person's nervous systems are intertwined together, and therefore, you need to unlear all of these neural pathways and these impulses that I think I would have gotten over my previous boyfriend a lot quicker.

And him over you, too. Yes.

Both of us would have been so much better off had we had this toolkit and the survival guide. But instead, I took For five years.

It makes a lot of sense. We've talked about the 30-day rule, and I'm glad you keep coming to the nervous system because here's what I also want to highlight. It's normal to want to reach out because you're used to reaching out. It's normal to want to text their parents because you're used to it. It's normal to want to send the meme. It doesn't mean you're meant to be together. Those are impulses and signaling and habits in your nervous system. That is not a sign from God that this is your person. When you understand that it's just like any other form of withdrawal, you're going to feel it, and the work here is to notice it. I'm hoping that when you, whether it's you in the breakup or you supporting someone, understand that this is an unlearning, that you can give space and compassion to the impulse without acting on it. That's where the let them theory comes in, because you got to say, let them. Let them leave. Let them break up. And then you move to the second part. Let me. Let me keep my promise to myself, no contact 30 days. Let me take a breath here and remind myself that I promised myself that I would have no contact.

Let me take a breath and send this meme to my sister or my mom. Let me take a breath and drive down a different road instead of driving down their road. Let me support myself through this 30 days. I'm going to keep reading from the Let Them Theory book. This is page 285. This is the hard part. You're going to be in the thick of it for at least three months. We gave you the 30-day rule from our therapist, which is about the processing that you need. But I want you to really understand whether you're in it or supporting someone else through it. This is at least three months of not going, You got to love yourself. Push through it. Put yourself out there. Why you're moping around the house? Why am I saying three months? Because that's how long the research says it takes to grieve a breakup before you start to feel better. Now, I don't know about you, but if I know it's going to be three months before I start to feel better, I now have a mile marker that I can look out to and say, All right, I'm going to be processing for three months.

Here's what the research says. By the 11-week mark, 71% of people feel better. 71% of people. I'm offering that as a benchmark to give you some comfort that, yes, It will get better. It may get better in 11 days. No contact for you might be like, Okay, I've unlearnt that. I don't miss it. Let's go. Okay. It might take 11 weeks for you to go, I actually feel better, and I'm going to be okay. It might take you a little longer, but it will get better. The let them theory is going to help you move through this and learn from it because you're going to keep going, let them Let them. Let them date other people. Let them hook up with other people. Let them break up with me. Let them not reach out. Let them look like they're having fun on social media. Let them look like their life's a party. Let them date somebody who's really wealthy and now they're going on trips that we could never do. I'm sitting here alone in my parents' basement. Let them, let them, let them. No contact for 30 days, three months to process this. Eleven weeks, you'll start to feel better.

Here's the other thing I want you to know. All this sadness is a mentally healthy response to heartbreak. When you're ready, there are a couple of things that, based the research Sawyer and I are going to teach you just six simple things that you can do that are proven to help you move through this processing part in a more powerful, productive, and supportive way. Things that help you with the processing, things that help you move forward, things that help you connect with yourself and remind you of who you are. When you reached out to him, did you guys get back together?

No.

After you spoke, because you have had the 30-day break of zero contact, I mean, no photos, no nothing, no social, no nothing, how did you feel even though that conversation didn't result in a, I miss you. Let's get back together. Oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God. It was like, Thanks, bye.

I definitely was upset at first, I will be honest. But I don't think I was nearly as upset as I think I would have been had I reached out five days after we broke up. I think the time and the space, I know a lot of people say that helps, but I do think forcing myself to cut ties, to not reach out. I think it also helped that he didn't reach out. So I wasn't, well, I wish he did. Great. He didn't. And that completed the full 30 days for the both of us. I think that when we had our conversation, which I wanted to call and just talk a little bit about the breakup because our initial parting was very short. I wanted to, quote, get a little more closure. Did I get the closure? No. But Did I feel like I could really move on at that point? Yes, because I had the official no from him. And that being said, I was not on an upward path after that. It was a continuous rolling hill. So that day, after hanging up, I was feeling good, I was feeling better. Okay, I can move on.

The next week, sobbing on the gym floor again, hyperventilating, crying, making up fantasies, stalking him constantly, maybe stalking his location sometimes, and being a weirdo like most of us are. But it wasn't just an upward trajectory after that. It was three months and then some to really start to feel like I was going to get over this and going to move past this. What I will say about that is the only Let Them, the tool of Let Them helped me so much in this breakup because every time I saw a photo of him with someone else or on the stories, because they would come up. I was I couldn't control that. The first thing that would come to my mind is Let Them. I can't control who he's going to be with. I can't control what he's going to do. I can't control who he's going to sleep with. I can't control his life. He's no longer in my life. And that is his decision. It's not mine. And so therefore, just constantly saying, let them, let them, let them, and let me be really sad. Let me grieve. I remember telling you all the time, just let me be sad.

Stop trying to solve everything. Stop trying to make me feel better. Let me grieve. Let me be sad. I need to feel this. And I know everyone around you, when you're going through a breakup, they just want to make you feel better. Because your emotions make them feel really uncomfortable, and it brings up stuff for them. And so they just want to squash whatever you're feeling and distract you, and take a shot or go do this. What you need to do as someone who is going through the breakup is you can say to people, Let me be sad. You are one of my best friends. Let me bring him up in every conversation because I have to talk about him right now. I have to bring this up. And that's a way that you can let them while let me still be grieving and be sad and moving through it and processing. To be honest, I kept doing that and kept doing that, and it was helpful. But the only thing that actually got me to the acceptance stage, which we'll talk about next, and everything that you can move once you actually accept that this relationship is over, is the fact that the future I had made up in my mind was never actually going to happen.

That is the only thing that I was completely unwilling to accept. Always thinking about us getting back together or five years from now running into each other in the street of New York City. Oh, nice to see you. 20 founds lighter, hair blown out, Botox, all the seeing. Even that, so You still, even though you accepted the breakup, you had not accepted the fact that at the end of the aisle, he would not be there.

Yes. That when your children are born, they would not be with him.

I did not accept that. That is what kept him around for so long.

Is I- In your mind in a fantasy. In my mind.

In my mind.

Because he was not around.

No. Not in my text, not in anything. He was dry.

Just like your vagina. No, I'm just kidding.

No, literally. Cobwebs. Especially when you're living at your parents house. But it honestly is all about the fantasy. I think that that was what happened in my last relationship. That's what happened in this relationship is after it was over, I was accepting of the fact that we had broken up. I was accepting of the fact that, you know what? There probably someone else out there for me. You know what? We didn't agree on this or that or the other thing, and maybe there is someone better. I don't know. Everything happens for a reason. I was able to accept that. Whenever anyone came to me and said, Maybe this is for the best. I was able to receive that and process that. But what I wasn't willing to accept is that later on, he wouldn't come back in my life. I think that that is what fantasizing about that life that I thought we were going to have is what kept me so anchored in this heartbreak and in this depression. It made me... I loved feeling that sadness. It was like crack. Because it made me feel like, This is not actually over, Sawyer. You can hold on to this.

And that's what I held on to. But as soon as you kept saying to me, Let them, let them, let them. This This is over, Sawyer. It sucked to hear, but it also made me realize he's not reaching out. There's not anything I can do that's going to change him because I can't control him. It's true. That's what you'll learn in Let Them Theory Book is you cannot control another human being, their thoughts, their feelings, their actions, anything.

I kept saying to you, if he wanted to, he would.

Yeah.

And he's not. You have to let them, and you have to move on. Just to widen this out a little bit, I've got friends in my life, I'm realizing, as you're sharing that this sadness was an anger and you refused to let go of it because it kept you tied to him, who have been divorced for years. Yes, they share custody, which is a whole another complicated ball of wax. But they hold on to so much anger. It's as if that anger means they're still married to them. The anger keeps them in a relationship with them, and they refuse to give it up and refuse to accept that this person not only has left you, they've divorced you, they have met someone else, they do not like you, and yet you are still unwilling to go through what we've talked about in the first part of this conversation, which is the processing and the unlearning and the letting go of any hope or any fantasy and learning how to live without them. When you do that and you do it for real, what you have access to is peace and power. Because I know a lot of you may be, Oh, yeah, but my deck is a jerk.

Let them send crazy texts. Let them not parent how you are. Let them marry someone you hate. Let them. You've moved on. You're no longer anchored to them. You just are sharing children with them. Let them. And focus on the let me part. I'm building a life without you. So I don't need to worry about managing you. I need to worry about the safety and the happiness of my children. But I'm not holding on to this anger because the anger is to this isn't fair and it's not just, and I can do something about it, and you can't. That's really insightful.

I think another thing, too, that's super easy to hold on to, going off of some of your friends you may be hanging on to some anger, is the fact that when you break up, the only thing that you hold on to is the good memories. Oh, that's true. You replay and you replay all these amazing memories and make it just seem like a Barbie movie and unbelievable. You just completely block out anything that may have been dysfunctional or you disagreed on or the reason that you broke up. I think that also because you're so in denial in the beginning of it all and going through those stages of grief that you convince yourself that absolutely everything was perfect, so why are we not together?

Again, the fantasy.

Yes.

Which is, again, why this is a huge part of the Let Them Theory book, because the inability to accept reality and the inability to process what just happened and learn a new way to go through life is what's going to keep you trapped. This feels like a good time to just take a beat and let everything that we're sharing with you settle in. We have so many more tools to share. A little later, you're going to hear questions from three listeners that are so spot on, and I can't wait for you to hear the advice that I have for them. So much more to come, so stay with us. We'll be waiting for you after a short break.

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Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. Thank you for sharing this with people that you love. I am here teaching you this Breakup Survival Guide with our daughter Sawyer. So one of the things that I wanted to share, because these were six things that you found to be extremely helpful as you process a So remember, 30 days, no contact. Eleven week rule is based on research where the majority of people start to feel a little better. But there are a couple of things that really help that are things you can do right now. The first one is something we've talked about, but it's like, remove everything in your environment that triggers you to think about them. Remove their photos, get them out of the digital frames, Put pause on the playlist that you listen to all the time. If they have clothing or trinkets, just put them in a box and put it away. I'm not talking about taking it out to the front lawn and igniting it on fire or taking it to the dump and throwing it away. Just remove it. If you can't remove it, ask your parents or your roommate or somebody else to do it for you because they'll be more ruthless than you will because you'll be like, Oh, I'll just keep this little thing in It won't really matter.

The reason why this is important is because of what we've talked about with processing. Any physical reminder of them fires up your nervous system. It is a reminder. Keep remembering this is grieving a person who's still here who has basically died in your life. There will come a time where you feel strong enough to go get the box and to either look through it and think about the good times or to pack up some of the stuff that was meaningful to them and send it back to them with a nice note. But you don't have to worry about that right now. Right now, you're in the three months, so let's remove all the triggers. The second thing, and I think this is really good advice, give your bedroom a makeover. You don't have to have a lot of money to do this. Buy a can of paint and paint a wall. Move your bed to a different place. Go down to the outlet store and buy a set of sheets or a blanket. Do something that signals that this is a new chapter because I guarantee you, you spent a lot of time in your bedroom with this person, so it's like ground zero for feeling traumatized and sad and depressed.

Do you want to say something about that?

I think that is such good advice. It's as simple as moving your bed to another angle or part your room, or you don't have to buy anything. Just remove the stuffed animals, remove anything that they may have given you, and give your room a makeover. It's also a fun project that makes you feel like you are changing your environment and starting a new chapter, but not in a way that is related to them.

If you're supporting somebody, this is one of those things where you can help by helping provide an environment for change. So you could say, How would you feel about giving your bedroom a makeover? Instead of taking your friend out for drinks and covering the barbell, take them to a store and buy them a new blanket for their bedroom, or that sticky wallpaper that could give their room a makeover. The third thing is that since you're unlearning life with this person that you just went through a breakup with, there's a big hole to fill. So reach out pro actively and let people know what is happening. Your roommates, your siblings, your coworkers, your parents, you're not a loser. Tell people for the next three months, will you check in on me? Will you invite me to do things so I don't die like a mole in my bedroom crying under the sheets down here like a nocturnal animal? We've all been through it. But if you have people that understand that you just need help getting out of the house, you need help getting out to dinner, you need help getting to an exercise class, that is something that I think makes a big difference because even the act of doing it is a sign to yourself that you're moving on.

For those of you like me, supporting, just pang those friends of yours, not right after the breakup, but seven weeks after the breakup. Want to go to a yoga class? Want to go away for the weekend? My folks invite it. We can go to my parents house. It goes a long way.

And better yet, show up at their house to pick them up for the fitness class. Don't just text them. And obviously, someone is going to say no. When you're going through a breakup, you don't want to be around anyone. You want to be alone. You want to be sad. Show up in person because it really matters. And whether that means drop off toilet paper or drop off a meal or order them Uber Eats for dinner because I guarantee you they're not spending a ton of time cooking. And when you go extra mile to actually show up for people and drive them to the workout class or invite them to your parents for the weekend. It really helps because like when someone is morning a death, with heartbreak, you don't want to do anything. You can barely get out of bed in the morning. And so showing up goes a lot farther than just sending a text and hoping that that cuts it.

Another one One that you talked a lot about and you write about in the book, Soi, is fill your calendar. And you basically just said, just look in your area, whether it's a city or rural area, for events near me. And then ask friends to go with you. Because If you don't have anything to look forward to, you're going to feel like a depressed loser. If you have a calendar of things where you're going to go visit a friend, or you're going to go to this exhibit, or you're going to go take this class, you start to step back into life.

I can attest to that because I did not do that. I had no plans during the summer. I sat at home. I poured every single ounce of me into my work, and I never ever took a break, and it all came crashing down on me. And so now I have set my weekends up moving forward to really go and prioritize and see my friends. And it's a little harder because we're up in Vermont. I'm living at my parents' right now. For all of you guys at home, in your 20s, living at home, you're not alone. But yeah, so fill your calendar with things you're actually excited about versus filling your calendar with work or things that feel like an obligation or anything that working out. Go do fun things that bring you joy and laughter, not things that you feel like you have to do.

Another thing that we write about is picking a challenge you've always wanted to do. Whether that is climbing a mountain, training for a triathlon, taking a class, learning guitar, going on a trip. There's something that you didn't have time to do when you were in a relationship. Let's assume that you're going to be in a loving and amazing relationship very soon. What is it that you would like to do now that you didn't have time for? Now that you see that, wow, I am learning how to live without this person. I got a lot of extra time. Why don't I fill it with something that I didn't have time to do before? It gives you purpose that is beyond that person you're getting over. The final thing, and I love this, you found this question, Sawyer. Keep asking yourself this question. If you knew the love of your life was around the corner and this breakup was bringing you one step closer to meeting them, How would you spend your nights and weekends while you're single?

I love that question, too.

Why do you love that question? Because you were like, We have to put this in this book. This is so important.

Because I think what drives people off the rails when you either get broken up with or when you're even marching towards a breakup is the fear of being single and the fear of never finding your person. When you get broken broken up with or you break up with someone, you feel so much farther away from the person that you actually are going to meet because you're going through it and you want your old life and you wish that things would actually just go back to normal. You're not looking towards the future. You're looking towards the past. And so if someone told you, Hey, in approximately 75 days, the love all of your life is going to walk into the coffee shop and come up to you, and you're going to go on your first date, and the rest is history, what would you do in the next 75 days? I would go skydiving. I would go move to Australia. I would run a marathon. I think about all these things, and I'm like, Oh, great. If that's already set up for me and I am confident in the fact that they're actually coming, then I can live my life happy and be in the moment.

But instead, we live in this fear that they're never, ever, ever going to come. And so you just hold on to the past or hold on to the next person you meet.

That's incredible. It's true. It's absolutely true. What's interesting is that I know that nobody wants to hear that you got to learn how to love yourself. But the fact is, and this is almost entirely what the let them theory is about, it's about Learning how to stop chasing other people and seeking validation from other people and controlling other people and seeking love from other people and learning instead how to Start by giving it to yourself. I know it's a cliché to say that you're the only person that you're going to spend your whole life with, but it's also the reality. Whatever it is that you're afraid of or scared of that you think only someone else can give you, whether it's acceptance, approval, fun, companionship, love, the fact is, if you give it to yourself, it opens the door for someone amazing to step into your life. I know that we have a couple of questions from listeners on this topic, and let's take the first one from Gabrielle.

Hello, my name is Gabrielle Joëlla, and I am 25 years old. I think some of the hardest parts about going through a breakup is the constant comparison when you do meet someone new to your previous partner, as well as the what ifs. What if I never find somebody as good enough as my previous partner? What if I was a better partner? Maybe I wouldn't be going through this breakup. What if I never find somebody ever again? And what if I end up alone? My question is, what would be your advice to someone going through that battle of the what ifs and how to overcome that?

It's a phenomenal question. The first thing that comes to mind is that when you say what if, you're not in a dating relationship, you're in a thruple. Because you're there with the other person and this third thing that is the fantasy and the possibility. It's almost like being in a triangle. Imagine being on a date with your critical mother and you're talking to your date, and then you turn to your mother, and she's like, Well, what if he's not a good man? Well, what if this? That's what you're doing when you allow that thinking pattern to enter your mind. If you are going to say, What if? I invite you instead to say, What if this all works out? What if this person is leading me one step closer to a relationship that I deserve? What if this person isn't quite right, but maybe they're somebody that's just like a slow simmer. They're going to open up and open up. What if the purpose of dating right now is not for me to find someone, but to actually find myself and create a deeper connection with who I am and what I like and what I don't like.

I'm the person that figures that out by being in situations where I don't like what's happening. I think that your purpose for dating right now is not to find the one, it's to find yourself and to figure out what you want and what matters to you and what doesn't matter to you. What comes to mind is I want you to keep in mind this 80/20 rule. I've talked about this before, which is focus on the 80% that matters. Is this person kind? Do they make you laugh? Do you feel like yourself? How do you feel when you hang out with them? Do they care about you? Do they prioritize you? Those are the things that matter. Do you have the same goals and aspirations in life? Do you see eye to eye on the deeply important things? That's the 80%. That throughout and the critical what if, that third party in your relationship, that's the 20%. That's the fantasy, that's the fear, that's all the stuff that you're focused on that actually doesn't matter. The only thing that matters, and I think it'll really help you to go, for For the next year, I'm not dating to find the one.

I'm dating to learn more about myself, and I'm going to meet a bunch of awesome people along the way. Eventually, one person at a time, the right person for me is going to show up.

I think the one thing that I disagree with my mom on is just the love yourself message, because again, whether you're dating, whether you're going through a breakup, it's really hard to hear that when all you want is for someone else to love you. I think Yes, of course. You could absolutely love yourself, but you could still be really upset that you haven't found your person.

Totally agree with you. Here's the thing. I'm so pragmatic that I know that saying all those things doesn't serve you, even though it's completely valid to feel those things. What you're feeling is a healthy and normal response to losing something you cared about. One thing that might help you is really unpack what was it about the thing that you lost that really is important to you? Because sometimes it's only when something's gone that you actually appreciate what it was.

Totally.

There's something about what you lost, something deeper that you really value. Maybe what you value is just this feeling of safety that you felt with this person that had been in your life a long time. That's very different than feeling like, Okay, I just don't really connect with this person, because you're not going to immediately. But what you're looking for is a feeling of safety and a feeling of trust and deep connection. It's not the person, it's how the person made you feel. That's what you're trying to discover when you focus on the 80%. Great.

That's what I want to hear.

Okay, great. Let's roll the next question from a listener named Yuna.

Hi, my name is Yuna. I'm 29. My question is about how to date other people after a bad breakup. I feel like last time I had a bad breakup, I forced myself to date to get over them. It was a disaster. I was crying in the middle of dates. It didn't really help. How do you make yourself date again? I just don't really feel interested it. Nobody seems interesting to me. I just don't want to date anybody else, basically. It's been over a year.

Fabulous question, and I think very common. The first thing I'm going to say is you need to follow the advice of this episode because if you're dating to get over someone, you're not going to find the right person. I wonder, if you really let what we've shared today sink in, did you process this? Have Are you grieved it? Or are you going through life knowing, Okay, I've accepted the breakup, but I have a fantasy that I'm going to walk into a restaurant one of these days, and they're going to be there, and it's going to be instant, and we're going to be right back in it? If you haven't given up on that fantasy yet, you need to let them. You have to truly do the work to accept that this is over. They are not coming back. In Until you do that, I don't think you're going to be interested in dating. Because what I hear in this question is you don't want to date, and that's okay, too.

What I was going to say is, I think for me personally, when I first met Darren, I also was uninterested in dating. I also was completely over it and still not over even another guy that I was seeing before that. I think you feeling like no one is good enough or I don't want to date and I'm so uninterested in these people is not only normal, but I do think that paying close attention to who makes you feel safe, who sparks your interest, who makes you smile and laugh? Those are all little pieces of data that can tell you, oh, maybe I want to explore this. And are they going to be here forever? No. But I remember when I first met Darren, way back when I wasn't interested. It took me a long time to become and develop and develop that safety and that love and that support. And it's just not immediate. It with anyone.

One of the things that I think happens after a breakup is if you haven't given yourself the true time to process and mourn this and truly let them and accept that this is over and get the fantasy out of your mind, You will always and forever have their ghost in your relationship now. That's number one. Number two, it is okay to not be out there dating. In fact, there's a lot of people that feel this way. Here's what I want you to know. You don't have to be dating to meet somebody. There are people all around you. There are people at work. There are people at the spot you buy lunch. Simply being out and about in the world as yourself and happy. If you're the person that's just open, you will be very surprised. It's in these moments in life where you're not looking that the person that's meant for you starts showing up. I met my husband right after a breakup, and I'd swore to my girlfriends, I'm swearing off dating for the rest of my life. I'm never dating again. Then boom, a month later, he was behind me in line at a bar, and that was that.

I think it's also important to understand that we have this fantasy of chasing the spark. If you are somebody that's trying to date to get over someone, what are you looking for? You're looking for a spark. You're looking for fire to fill up the hole that's inside you. Some of the best relationships, in fact, only 11% of relationships began with a spark.

Really?

The rest of them are slow burns. It's the person that grew on you over time at work. It's the person that was a friend of a friend that you kept seeing at a party. It's the person that lived down the hall or that you kept seeing in the stairwell. It's the person that grew on you over time. Be very careful of trying to date to get over someone because you're looking for something big.

I think that the spark is important, though, and that's what we feel when we're growing up and we're little and you are trained to look for that.

Disney trained you for that. That's not how the real world works. Spark is attraction. Our relationship is about compatibility and commitment and mutual support and kindness. In the modern world, you hear the word love, and you think it means chemistry. You think it means this grand thing. Love is two things. It's consideration, and it is admiration. Consideration just means you have someone in mind. Consideration is bringing somebody a cup of coffee. That's an act of love. Admiration is when you look at somebody and you see attributes of this person that you admire. That's why the spark and instant thing is about attraction. But true love is about admiration and consideration, and that grows over time.

I love that. So question number three is from Tim, who is 27. Even though we've broken up, so much of what I do still involves my ex. I want to look good in case she sees me. I want to post on social media for her to see. I want to date someone else to make her jealous. How do I stop living my life for her and start living it for me?

Tim.

Bless you.

I have been there. This was you. Yes, this was you. Let them Tim, your life is not going to begin until you let her live hers. She's gone. The reason why you're living for her and you're posting for her and you're thinking about her is because you have not actually grieved this relationship. The more you think about her and the more you navigate your life based on how she would react or how would impact her, the more you are holding yourself hostage to a relationship that's over. You have to let her leave, and you have to accept reality that this is over. That's really hard to do. I would recommend you go back to the beginning and you relisten to this, and you go through the 30 days and you unfollow her on social, and you remove all the things from your apartment or your house, that you drive in different patterns, that you start to step into and learn how to live life without her, because that's the piece of this break-up survival guide that you haven't done. It's only when you allow yourself to process the reality of what's happened that you'll stop giving your power to somebody who doesn't deserve it, and you'll take it back, and you'll learn how to create a life without her and a life where you are happy.

The sad thing about hearing this is that you can't see it yet. But in listening to your question, There are now millions of people listening that see you in a jail cell that you locked yourself into. The good news is you hold the key. She's gone. You're not getting married, but you have your whole life ahead of you. I would focus on the things that this taught you. I would move through the 30 days and remove all reminders of her. I would allow you to truly grieve this because you're still living as if she's here, and she's not. Here's the choice. You can live the rest of your life in this and emotional jail, or you can use the keys that we've given you, and you can use the let them theory, and you can let her go and set yourself free. You have a huge, beautiful amazing future ahead of you. I want to ask you a question. If you knew that the love of your life, somebody that just filled you up and made you laugh and made you feel so happy and seen and supported, somebody that was going to grow through life with you, was just around the corner.

You're about to walk into a room, 75, 175 days from now, and there they are. How would you be living your life right now? I'll tell you something. You wouldn't be wasting a damn second of it worrying about the woman who already left. The greatest love of your life is on the road ahead, and it's your responsibility to start walking toward them. I just want to say this is hard. I could sit here in my chair with my mic talking to Sawyer seven months after she's through it. Seven months ago, this was like an emotional blizzard in this house.

It was warzone.

It really It was.

Everyone had to survive.

You can survive, and it does get better, and you're stronger than this moment. The more you realize that every single ending is also a beginning. It really is. The fastest way for you to move through a breakup is to truly understand what it is. Learning that this It's really the process of teaching your body how to go through life without somebody that used to be in it. It's grief. It's learning new patterns. There is a period of withdrawal. But all those emotions you feel are normal. It doesn't mean this was your person. It doesn't mean you should get back together, and it doesn't mean you won't get back together at some point. But your job right now is to use all the tools, and it begins with first understanding the process of what a breakup is, and the 30-day no-contact rule, and the research that says it takes three months before it starts to get better, and the six things that you can do immediately to support yourself to go through something you don't want to go through. I get it. But the only choice you have is to go through it. That's why it's hard.

If you're sad, be sad. If you want to snot cry and lay on the floor of a gym, do If you want to emotionally eat your way through the next three months, go for it. Do whatever you need to do to process this because it is painful to go through life with somebody and then suddenly have to learn how to not go through life with them. I'm going to give you that. I'm also going to tell you this, it's going to get better, and you are going to meet somebody amazing because somebody else in your life isn't the reason why you deserve love. You deserve love simply because you're alive. I know you don't want to hear that you got to love yourself, so I'm not even going to tell you to. You can hate yourself right now. That might be part of your process. But remember, in three months time, when you use these tools, and most importantly, I think my biggest takeaway is it's the fantasy in your mind that is killing you. You got to learn how to let them go and let me step into reality. The reality is you have the ability to move through this.

You have the ability to feel these emotions. And by the time you lock up in a couple of months, you're going to feel stronger, you're going to feel better, and you're going to realize, wow, I'm going to be okay because you are. And on that topic of consideration and admiration, I just want to tell you, Soi, how much I admire you.

Thanks, Mom.

I learned a lot about myself through the process of learning how to better support you through that breakup and to step back and give you the space to feel what you needed to feel even though with every cell of my body, I just wanted to jump in and fix it. I wanted to text his mom. I wanted to text him. I wanted to somehow arrange something so that this could all just go away and everybody could be like, okay. You really taught me how important it is to stand by somebody's side instead of stepping in and trying to make it go away.

What I will say to you, Mom, is thank you so much for using the let them theory with me and actually letting me process and saying let them every day and giving me the space that I really needed to move through this and process this, and I couldn't have done it without you.

Oh, well, I think you could have. But I loved being there to put my arms around you. I love you.

I love you, too.

Thank you to There are three amazing listeners who submitted those awesome questions, and keep them coming. Just go to melrobbins. Com/podcast if there's something you're struggling with or a question that you have, and you could hear yourself on an episode coming soon. For you listening, there's something I want to say to you. You're not going to go through this alone. I love you. I'm not breaking up with you. I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to be here several days a week, put my arm around you and support you. Sawyer is here occasionally when I drag her on this show. I believe in your ability to create a better life. I really do. If you use the let them theory and all of the tools and research we just walked you through, there is no doubt in my mind, you will not only create a better life, but your love story is far from over. In fact, the greatest love of your life is on the road ahead. All righty, I'll see you in the very next episode. How are you doing, Soi?

Wonderful.

Okay. No, I'm not so sorry. Not like that. Sorry. I'm sorry. That's okay. All right, we good? Oh, yeah, Yeah, great. Okay. Great, great, great. What's that like? Great, great, great. That's awesome.

Can you see my feet in the shot? No.

Okay, sweet.

That's right in your lap.

That better? Like that? I think I'm going to be better.

I feel like my feet smell.

I don't smell them. Awesome. Okay. Great coaching. Amazing.

I like what's up.

You did amazing. We did amazing. Oh, and one more thing. No, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. Stitcher.

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