Transcript of JRE MMA Show #182 - Protect Ya Neck

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The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night.

All day. Hey, what's up, brothers?

So your boy Tommy was awesome. He was great.

Good.

He was really cool.

Yeah, I actually listened on the way out to that one.

He's really fun. Tommy Lee's fun.

He's like a big kid, man. He is kid.

Yeah, like a 15-year-old that just never, you know, had to grow up all the way up. 'Cause he got famous when he was 18. Exactly. So he really never had to grow up. He just stayed Tommy Lee.

Yeah, I'm glad you finally got to have him on.

It was very cool.

So it was good.

It's weird that he's really into bonsai trees.

Oh, big time.

Crazy.

Trims them up.

He's got like 100-year-old—

Where do you even find them at?

You make them yourself. His yard, he sets up like a whole like zen garden type of thing. It's pretty wild. But he's been into those and he likes to trim them up and, you know, it's pretty wild. He's just, he's a positive energy, nice guy. Like he's never, never been in my, you know, uh, what do you want to say, interactions with him. Never. He's never been a dick. Never. No, he never— he's like, I just— he was cool to work for.

Well, I only worked— I, I met him rather when you were working with him, when you were his bodyguard. And then, uh, this is the other time I met him. So he's super cool.

Nice.

Good. I remember him in the car.

It's because I remember that pecker's as tall as you are.

I remember him with his fucking huge dick with Pamela Anderson.

He's got a lot a lot of advantages in this life, doesn't he? Good Lord, good Lord. Goddamn, Tom Pershing. And one of the greatest drummers of all time.

That was like one of the first sex tapes.

Oh yeah, that was probably—

yeah, for sure.

For celebrities, actual celebrities did allow them to get famous afterwards. Well, they were already famous. That was why it was crazy. Both of them were super famous, right?

But I mean, a lot of like, to keep— to catapult them into like a different stratosphere, right?

Well, anytime one of them celebrities is dating another celebrity, it's like their fucking superpowers unite. Yeah.

He was with Heather Locklear too, right?

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, he was a fun dude. The trees thing is wild though. I didn't know that these people, they have like 100-year-old trees, 200-year-old tree, 300-year-old bonsai trees, and they pass them down through generations. They have like paperwork so you know like who's the guy who first started the tree, and they've got these trees that are like several hundred years old and they're like this big. And they're in like a pot.

What are you— what are you trimming them?

It's all like an artistic thing. They're trimming them in certain patterns, and every time they try to grow, you trim them down and they just like tighten up, and it makes a weird form.

Yeah, it comes out. They're pretty cool looking, actually.

I wonder if the tree likes it though. She's like, hey, motherfucker, I'm trying to grow. I'm 300 years old and I'm 16 inches tall. This is retarded.

I think for him though, he's had such a crazy high-paced life that it's the yin to the yang, you know what I mean? That's how he relaxes.

I loved hearing it. It sounded perfect. I was like, oh, you found a great thing.

And you see he's a gearhead too, like you. So you guys had a little bonding on the cars.

First cars he bought, he bought an old Corvette. He got a fucking supercharger put on it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a maniac. He's definitely a maniac. He's a very nice—

I mean, rock and roll man. Oh yeah, the guy was the drummer for Mötley Crüe. I don't— can't even— at 18, can't even imagine what that must have been like. Must have been insane.

A lot of these guys, they don't want to stop touring, all these rock and roll stars.

Why would they want to?

I mean, it's just that adrenaline.

But some of them really should though. Some of them, some of them— I saw some clips. Who the fuck was it?

David Lee Roth?

No, I think it was the guy from AC/DC.

Brian Johnson.

I don't know if it's that great.

Yeah, it's bad. It's pretty good, dude. AC/DC, favorite, one of my favorite all-time bands, and Brian Johnson struggling. I mean, but that screaming style he has, wow.

I mean, keep that going. You keep that going. Like, no acting or vocal coach would ever tell you you could sing like that. I don't think so. You just can't sing like that. You can't fucking scream like that.

I wonder if they get like 60-year-old groupies.

100%. 100%. Feeding that flame lit. Oh my God, they've been keeping that flame lit since the '80s.

Of course. But do they have like new groupies though?

Of course, of course. You know, there's no way they don't. Like, doesn't— what's his— what the—

what is—

what is his name? Um, Jesus Christ.

Rolling Stones.

I forget what. Mick Jagger. Yeah, well, I know Mick Jagger has a kid that's really young. Like, Mick Jagger just had a kid like really recently.

Wow. Yeah, he's like in his 80s.

I was thinking of someone else though. Someone else is another— oh, there's a bunch of guys like that. Like Al Pacino just—

oh yeah, that's true.

Yeah, true, true. But a lot of older guys like that, they wind up having kids. Like, they're still obviously getting young chicks to fuck them.

It's kind of irresponsible though.

I mean, I mean, but maybe—

I mean, he's probably—

he's gonna take care of the kid, but maybe it's the young chick that wants the kids. Yeah, of course, but it's still— if you did it on purpose, if you're the guy and you did it on purpose, that's wild.

Yeah, yeah.

I don't even want to be around. Yeah, I'm just gonna have this kid at 80. Yeah, it's more important than my genes pass on, that I be there for my child.

Think about that. By the time you're 85, you're probably gone. Yeah, yeah, by the time you're 85, yeah, you won't even see your kid go to school.

You'll be 5 years old, you know, the kid will be 5 years old and the dad dies.

Maybe the Maybe the wife wanted it. Well, sure, you know, you leave something behind type of thing.

Look, maybe it's better than not doing it. Maybe. Yeah, but also, if you're a fucking rational 80-year-old, like, bro, you barely have time to take care of yourself. You can't even keep your own shit in your pants.

You're gonna raise it. Yeah, both of them are gonna change your diapers.

You're gonna take the kid to the park and run around in the kid's diapers and yours.

Bro, you're gonna break a hip and your toddler is gonna be screaming and no one will hear it.

Right.

And you're gonna be alone with them at the park and you're gonna be lying there bleeding internally from a broken hip and the kid's gonna walk off and you're gonna watch the kid—

5 years old, yeah.

3-year-old wander off and you're 80. That's nuts.

Oh yeah, by the way, Longo, you got him upset because he's like, man, I've been feeling good. He's like, you know, I'm at the gym every day. And I go, fucking, I turn on Rogan and he's bitching about being 58. I'm like, what the fuck? He's 68. Oh, so he's basically like, he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's complaining about being 58. He's really 68. He looks great.

He looks fucking— looks real good. He's got dark ass hair, right?

I know, right?

He don't have—

he don't have a Rick O'Neal or Ronald Reagan hair. He's looking— he's looking good.

That's great.

And then he asked me about a—

what the I love long hair. Ronald Reagan had dark hair like deep into like the '70s. My shit is all white. If I grew my— if I had hair and I grew it out, it'd be all gray.

Really?

Yeah, mostly. It's like my face, like my stubble, it's like at least 60% gray.

Yeah, mine is all gray now too.

Yeah, it's weird. There's something about a gray beard that's like you're just saying fuck it.

Yeah, that's why I just started trimming it down. I was like, yo, this is ridiculous.

Yeah, I don't like the way it looks.

When I see myself in the mirror with a gray beard, I'm like, who the fuck are you?

You're supposed to have a dark beard.

For sure.

I had a dark beard most of my life.

I'm looking at pictures from like a couple years ago and it's dark. Now it's all gray. Like, what the fuck happened? They had a thing on A&E with me and George and they had— they showed a clip of me and you talking. I still— we both had hair. Yeah, it was crazy. It looked crazy. It's weird.

You look—

you want—

you're just slowly slipping into the grave.

We're looking good though. Holding it down as long as we can.

Yes, compared to people people that don't take care of themselves, and also compared to people from the past. Oh, that's what I'm saying. They didn't have TRT.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

They didn't even understand. They didn't have vitamins. You know?

No red light therapy.

But think about like in the '80s, what 40-year-olds looked like in the '80s.

Right.

Yeah, they was fucking huge.

And I think the martial arts also helps. Like we just had an event, Renzo's 30th anniversary for his academy in the US.

Yeah, that was great.

And they invited all the OGs. So we were— I seen guys I hadn't seen in decades.

Got a 5th degree?

But yeah, I got my 5th.

I got my 5th.

Matt got his 5th.

Look at that. That's amazing.

And I mean, we were talking like almost everybody looked good.

Everybody, everybody, everybody.

And there was 15 years training, 60 guys there.

It's the thing is you got to maintain. And if you don't maintain, you're never getting it back. Yeah, you don't, you don't, you can't like at 50, you can't take 3 years off. Like, right, right, right. It's just too hard to get back. And if you never worked out before and you're like 46 and you start now, It's tough. That's a hard road, man. You never worked out before. Like, first of all, go slow.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You gotta break everything.

Well, that's the problem. People want to jump right in and then you get hurt or get busted up a little bit and then it just defeats— you know what I mean? You're like, fuck this. Which is the big reality, not get injured.

The big reality about age is how long it takes to heal something. Yeah, my kids get hurt, they just fucking heal up like Wolverine. It's nuts. Like, within a few days, oh, my shoulder's fine again. Like, you fucking just did a backflip and landed on your shoulder.

You're all right.

I would be fucked up for a year. Yeah, they just, they just heal quicker. They have— they're alive.

Yeah, I mean, it's the fucking truth.

That's the truth, man. That's the number one thing that happens as you get older.

If you're lifers like us, you just got to be smart about your training.

100%.

Like, you know, I got young savages. I don't want— I don't fucking— I, I choose who I want to roll with. Like, you know, sure, sure. You don't got to be that guy to fucking just slay everybody on the mat because you're the sensei.

You're gonna break. You'll break. You know, it's like you have a Corvette, you take it around the track, you can only do so many laps. Every car, even Formula One cars that cost $100 million, whatever they got, they break. You can only go so far, so fast, so long before you blow a rod. You got some shit goes sideways. Everybody I know has had surgery. Yeah, everybody.

Like for me, like when I'm in Philly with the crew, Brady and Pfeiffer and them, like it's hard being in a room with these guys because they want to grab you and do moves on you. And I'm like, oh, chill out, man, let's grab one of the younger guys, bro.

The last guy you want grabbing you is Brady. Yeah, Jesus Christ, he gets on top of you, just starts squeezing you.

Yeah, right. Yeah, his—

that fucking fight with Joaquin Buckley, I was like, holy shit.

Yeah, he ragdolled.

Yeah, bro, it was whole— it was the, the level of domination was like shocking. I was like, okay, so this is his best form. Like, this is him at his best. At his best is fucking terrible. He's a little inconsistent. Like, he's— the Morales fight was tough, but when— and he said it's like his head wasn't in it, but when his fucking head is in it and he's like dialed in, for sure, man, he's like—

when he grabs you, bro, like, he'll squeeze you and you just start making like a little noise, like, what he did to Leon and what he did to Joaquin, you're like, holy shit, man, what is that like? That was beautiful.

Just beautiful. As explosive an athlete as the floor—

like everywhere they went, he was just following them one step ahead. It was like no escape.

Yeah, yeah, he don't want you out there. Smush. Yeah, his back is so big, he just gets so much coverage over you when he's on top of you.

And the balance, it's just every— it's just like so many steps ahead of them on the ground. The, the one time it really looked like a cardio drill. Like he was on top, like he was just— it would look like he was just getting like placid face. Yeah, super calm.

I believe where they were, he wasn't allowed to do the 12 to 6 elbows.

Oh, that's so crazy.

That's where I— right or wrong? Something like that.

So this— I think Jersey's still like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of places that are like that, man. It's so dumb.

Oh, they're still using the old unified rules.

It's so dumb. Like, that rule doesn't make any sense. It would be nice if it's, you know, Soccer kicks, okay, you want to have a debate. But if you can elbow this way and this way and this way, but you can't go this way, that's just retarded.

And everybody else is doing it, so why would you not do it?

It doesn't make sense. And you have to remember what state you're in.

That's the problem.

So like when you're in the fight and you're on instinct and the guy's like this, but it's wide open for a 12-6 elbow, you're supposed to throw it. That's what it's for.

Yeah, for safety's sake. And the fighters ability and the referee's ability to make a decision, have consistency in the rule set.

It's just another elbow. It doesn't make any sense. Like, there's one elbow that's outlawed? That's crazy, right?

I don't know why.

You can knee the hell out of somebody in their face.

You can jump, you can run and jump and knee them in the face.

Yeah.

Oh God.

And some of the craziest knockouts we've ever seen come from that. Like, we were just talking about Masvidal versus Askren the other day.

Oh man. Hey, he's supposed to be wrestling again. Oh, but how is that? I don't— real— is that a good idea?

No, it can't.

I saw him talking the other day.

Yeah, that freaked me out when I heard that.

When he was talking, he was coughing a lot. And I'm like, you listen, when you're— people who are athletes, they're afraid of wrestling because it's exhausting. They don't want to feel that, that burn in their lungs. You really want to push yourself like that? Yeah, I worry about it.

I just don't want him to get Totally with you.

I mean, he had double lung transplant surgery, like, how long ago?

That was like a year ago.

A year ago?

Maybe 2 years ago. Maybe 2 years ago.

I'd be worried the most about infection.

Yeah.

I'd be worried about everything. And I would also be worried if you're doing that, I think you have to take immunosuppressant drugs in order to keep someone else's organs inside of you.

So you're gonna go out into a giant crowd of people.

So my friend C.T. Fletcher. You know C.T. Fletcher?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

C.T. had a heart transplant. Transplant, and, uh, he has to take medication to keep this heart in his body, keep his body from rejecting it. And he has a bunch of complications from the medication, like makes him swell. And he posts videos and pictures about it, like it's a serious thing. And he had to be real careful during COVID Like, you have a heart transplant and then you're on immunosuppressant drugs, and then all of a sudden— or a bad flu, like anything bad will fucking kill you because your immune system is working in a weird way because it's trying to keep someone else's heart inside of you. Yeah, your body's like, who's this fucking heart?

Right?

Not our heart. Get it out. Your body's like, this is a disease. Which is wild that your body knows. Yeah, like it recognizes that it's from another gender.

Is that yours?

And we're just like, nah, we can hack nature, shove it in there and give you some drugs that make your body stay alive.

I think it was Bilal Muhammad. Yeah, it's Bilal Muhammad. Maybe he has like an agreement. Like, hey, listen, man.

Didn't they used to train together, right?

They did used to train together.

So they're friends. Maybe that's the deal. We were just reading about this last night too.

2 people have had pig hearts transplanted in their bodies.

No way.

Yeah, one guy stayed alive, I think, for 60 days, and one guy stayed alive for 40 days.

Did they gain a lot of weight? Did they become fatties?

They start fucking shoveling their face in the trash.

So, uh, so wait, they had— you're telling me whose idea was it to put a pig heart in another human being?

Uh, there's a bunch of doctors because apparently pigs' hearts for some reason, uh, are similar in function to a human heart.

Say that about a sheep's vagina. Don't they?

Don't they?

They do. I don't— I'm no farmer, but that's what I heard.

That's what I heard too.

So a pig's heart.

Yeah.

And that's fucking— that's fucking crazy.

It's crazy. And so they did it on two people. Yeah, but either way, the whole thing of transplanting organs from other people is like super risky and dangerous. And once it's working, the, the number of— like, we looked at heart transplants. I don't know what it is for lung, double lung transplants, but it look— you look at mortality over a period of years, and so it's like 91% of the people survive the first year, and then it starts, and then it starts going down. So 9% of the people die after the heart transplant. But then it starts to go down after, you know, that's for the first year. When it gets to 5 years, then you're in the 80s or the 90s and then the 80s, and it keeps dipping. It keeps dipping until like at 10 years, it's like half of them are dead. Jesus. Yeah, so you're buying some time, right?

But you know, it's also— what about other organs?

It's a good question. Like, so what is it like for double lung transplant? I don't know, but I would imagine it's fragile.

You want to put that in the fucking red? You want to push that? Where you're breathing heavy? It felt like yesterday he was making laps around the hospital floor.

Floor, right?

Yeah.

And that's a dude.

Well, he's a winner, right? And that's the problem. Like, sometimes when you're a winner, your, your will is so strong that you think you could force your body into unrealistic expectations.

There's got to be some agreement or something. Yeah, like, I just— in my mind too, he cheated. He— I mean, you basically, you cheated death.

Yes.

Your family— now you have your family back, you understand you have a second chance. Like, why would you put that at risk to do something?

Maybe him and you have nothing to prove, have like a friendly— what's that?

It's kind of what I—

wrestling role. Yeah, friendly wrestling. I don't think that though. He's an animal. Yeah, Ben Askren's a fucking—

I, I don't think that they have an agreement with each other. I think that somebody told Belal, hey, listen, man, don't push this dude.

Well, he said, like, I saw an interview where he said, bro, like, his first question was What are you talking about? Can he wrestle?

You know what I mean?

Has he even been cleared?

So I would, I would not accept that if I was Bilal. I'd be like, that's not— I'm at the, the pros. And this is no disrespect to Askren. It's like, I think that guy's an animal. Like, I was one of the biggest promoters of trying to get Askren into the UFC when he was the champion of Bellator, and the— and then when he went over to ONE, and the argument was like, he was boring. And I was like, no, he's not boring. It's crazy that he could do this to these guys. Yeah, he could take guys like Douglas Lima and just ragdoll them to the ground and they can't do shit to him. Choruskov, remember he did to him?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He wasn't boring at all. He was destroying guys. Yeah.

Dolling these guys. They had zero chance in him not taking them down. It was zero chance and it was beautiful.

Right.

It wasn't like Alex Pereira flying kneeing somebody in the face, but it's still another way to win.

But it was like a man and a child.

Yes.

Yeah.

It was crazy good. He was crazy good. And then we got him like a little late, right? We got him when he already had hip problems and he eventually had to get a hip replacement after he got out of the UFC. You know, he had already been 15 years in combat sports and then all the years of wrestling and like— but those days when he was running shit at Bellator, he was a motherfucker, dude. He was a motherfucker. Fight night is here. Title shots, debut killers, and the rising contender nobody's talking about yet. And only DraftKings has you covered every step of the way. The The DraftKings app is now available in all 50 states and includes all markets, bringing the game straight to your fingertips wherever you are. No matter where you're watching, you're always connected and in the game with one app. New DraftKings customers sign up with code ROGAN, spend $5 to get $200 in rewards within 21 days. That's code ROGAN. In partnership with DraftKings, the crown is yours. Bet with DK Sportsbook. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER, 1-800-MY-RESET. Connecticut, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino in Kansas, bet tax pass-through may apply in Illinois.

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His fight with Damian Maia was fucking awesome.

Amazing fight.

That's a great— no, what's the beautiful thing about that fight is they're both— it's almost like the closest thing to style versus style that we could have nowadays. Yeah, you know, they're both so, um, brilliant at the way they use their art, with him with his wrestling and him with his jiu-jitsu. And in that fight You got to see some of that with Ben. You got to see the takedowns. You got to see an Uma Plata reversal, a leg lock, ashi reversal. I mean, beautiful jiu-jitsu. Yeah, it was just such a great fight, dude.

Damian Maia got fucked harder than anybody ever got fucked by a referee's decision. Kamaru Usman. Yep, ever.

Right.

Nobody got fucked harder than Damian Maia.

Was it her? Who was it?

I don't know, and maybe we shouldn't even pull her name up.

I can't do my boys like that, man.

I gotta see them.

I want to think I don't remember the—

I don't remember who it was, but I think there's a guy who doesn't do it in the UFC anymore, but he had him on his back, one hook in, over-under. He had gotten to a position where like, you are fucked, you're dry, and you got the best back specialist in the UFC. Damian Maia was— the way he ran through Neil Magny, like, holy shit, man. Yeah, his jiu-jitsu is so high level. And for you to get off, get him off, and Kamaru's one loss, right, was to—

yeah, Alex Pereira's brother.

So it's like, how many years ago was that? Like, and now you're fighting Damian Maia and he's got your back. You're in danger. Yeah, you're in danger. And the referee separated them.

So crazy.

Never got to that spot again. Kamaru played it nice. He fought a great fight, won the fight. And you're like, damn, Damian had him. He had him in a, like, not 9 out of 10, but he had him in like a 6 out of 10 spot for him. Yeah, like half the time he gets your back and you're dry and you're not at his level of jiu-jitsu, you're in fucking trouble.

You should never separate anybody from that position. I know you're a big proponent of not standing people up, but especially positions that it requires time to get to.

100%. 100%. The idea that a guy can defend it for a few seconds and the crowd boos and that's enough for you to make him neutral again. Fuck you. I know, it's so hard to get to Kamaru.

Yeah, I know.

And the tightness is what keeps that position, you know. Any space he makes and Kamaru's gone.

Name the amount of times in the history of Kamaru's entire— all the years of competition where people got him in disadvantageous grappling positions, right?

I can't think of—

there's very few, very few.

Leon took him down.

Yeah, yeah. Chimaev. But even Chimaev, he was winning the third round.

Oh well, he almost won that fight.

It came— that's a fight where he won the last 10. Here he is, here he is. This is crazy.

Oh shit, do I need headphones?

Who is that? Does it matter? All right, so it sucks.

Back it up again so you can see how good the position was a little further. That hook, can you get it a little further back? Yeah, here. So I want to see, like, when he starts entangling. This is so bad for Kamaru. You have to understand how bad this is.

Yeah, this is bad.

This is a— this is not just simply he's like behind you.

And Maya had that, the progression.

Like, he was just about to beat that wizard, bro.

Look how good this looks too. Maya is just a gorilla.

His wrestling was underestimated too. Like, he was so—

it was technically everything. And his use of leverage and his positioning was always perfect. It just was so beautiful to watch. When you see a guy just super high-level jiu-jitsu in the UFC, just like, oh my god, this is beautiful to watch.

Yeah, I love how methodical he's working his way into this.

Dangerous.

Oh my god, he was gonna step in there.

Look at this, Slick.

That arm is the only thing, and he's just about to beat that arm. And not only that, And from here he could just start beating on him with the right hand, which he'll probably start doing.

So if the referee really stands him up from this position— like, this is a crazy way to separate people.

This is terrible.

This is bad, man. This is like— for Kamaru, this is super dangerous.

Still got half the round left.

Hanging on to that whizzer for dear life is the only thing keeping him from getting this guy on your neck.

Not at all.

And that whizzer is like at 40% power now, because look how far back he is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Not much into that. Yeah, there's not much. It's hard. It's hard to generate power like that with Kamaru. I mean, he's got full double underhooks.

How do they break this up?

How do you break this up? This is crazy to break up. Like, this is such a dangerous position.

Oh, this is bad. I don't recognize the ref.

Yeah, I can't remember. I recognize— I'm not gonna say his name. There's no need to, but this is a giant mistake.

You're clear, Herb.

Sometimes—

Herb, though, it's all right.

Sometimes in fights Man, these guys listen to the crowd.

Yeah. Oh yeah, it's kind of hard not to, right? And they feel responsible.

Yeah, they do. And then the organization, I'm sure they feel pressure because the organization wants like fast action fights. But there's certain situations where you, you got to just accept the fact that sometimes this sport is not the most exciting for moments because it's so exciting in other spots.

Punching his ass.

Oh, that's crazy right there. Right after he fucking crazy. That's crazy, man. That's the worst fuckover that anybody's ever gotten in the UFC. I mean, I think that's the worst.

There is the time that fucking Bustamante had to get two submissions.

That's right.

That's a pretty big fuckover.

That's who Maia reminds me of. His striking wasn't as good as Murillo's, but the combination of wrestling and his jiu-jitsu, like, once he got a hold of you, he was probably gonna put you out.

Murillo was so good.

He's still coming around. He's got a fighter in the UFC now. Nice.

Does he? That's awesome. Yeah, I saw him when I first started jiu-jitsu at Carlson Gracie's place. Did you? Yeah, the very first year that I started jiu-jitsu, it was like him, Vitor was there, Sergio Coen, Mario Sperri. Mm-hmm. It was crazy.

Yeah, they had a ridiculous room back then.

I just lucked out and wound up watching these guys train when like Vitor was about to make his UFC debut. I was just starting out. I was like, this is amazing. Yeah.

Seen all them guys in there, dude.

They were all in there, man. You could just come in off the street and see the best jiu-jitsu guys in the world training.

That's crazy.

It was crazy. And it was all— they were, they were all fighting in— there was the other guy, what's his name? Carlos— fuck, that's right, Carlos Barreto. He was there too. There was a bunch of those Carlson Gracie team guys there. We just got lucky that this was the place. Yeah, man.

Yeah, built like a He-Man figure.

Carlson had some savages, man. He really had a great team.

Yeah, yeah, it was a pretty—

Oh, that's, that's where I got my black belt from.

Libório.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, that's another guy to be proud of. He is a good guy.

Such a nice guy. Yeah, it's like, uh, it's kind of amazing when you realize that before 1993, jiu-jitsu had no schools, right?

And now, and now they're everywhere, every corner.

Yeah.

That is like ground controls. That's truly insane. Like, the Gracie family, like, the world owes them.

Yeah, no, there's no doubt about it.

Owes them.

The world, the whole world, the world is impacted. Like, think about the world, the world, the whole world. Yeah, everybody.

Because I think liking MMA has impacted culture, and then people training, much more people training in jiu-jitsu has impacted culture.

Hell yeah.

Where the fuck would we be?

Like, the UFC's here because of the Gracies as well.

I mean, obviously the Fertittas and Dana, but yeah, but Horion started the whole thing. He wanted to have a crocodile mode around.

It's amazing.

I remember hearing about it in 1992 with Horion and Royce, the seminar I went to, and they were talking about that. They were talking about the different ideas, what they were going to do, and I Even though I didn't think they were full of shit, I thought it was never gonna happen. I'm like, what is this, Bloodsport? I go, on TV, they're gonna be fighting? It sounded ridiculous, but now everybody's so used to it, it sounds ridiculous that it sounds ridiculous. Like, you know, that's true.

When I first found out about it, I didn't watch it until it was UFC 2, because I will only watch it on videotape. Like, somebody from the gym told me about it, and I went and watched it. I got the videotape, like Hollywood Video. Brought it home, and I was like, oh my god, they did it. Yeah, they did. That's what I thought. So do you like, oh, they pulled this off?

I saw—

no, no, they did the thing that we always wanted. Oh, so when I was—

when I first started— style.

Yeah, yeah. I first started taking karate, and I thought karate was good until I stumbled into this really good taekwondo school, and I was like, oh, taekwondo's the shit. And then I started boxing, like, oh my god, I can't box. And then I started kickboxing, like, oh my god, you kick my legs? I didn't know you can kick my legs. This is terrible. And then I started doing jiu-jitsu, like, oh my god, I'm helpless. Close. So it's like all these steps along the way. I was like, it would have been nice if we knew what style was real. And this is what Bruce Lee tried. And right, bro, when I was starting out in like '88 doing taekwondo, nobody knew nothing. Nobody knew what worked. Everybody just like, so that guy beats people in that thing, and that guy beat— I wonder what would happen if they fought. No one knew, right?

They thought wrestling was worthless, grappling arts were worthless.

Yeah, but luckily I learned it was not worthless in high school when I got my ass kicked.

Me too, man. I'm practicing on the wooden dummy to chain punch my ass. That's all I know. And, uh, every time I get into a real scrap, I'd go back to my season of 8th grade wrestling.

That's the case, but I also think that Wing Chun would work if you knew all the other— like, Anderson Silva can use Wing Chun, right? You know what I'm saying?

A lot of hand trapping.

Yeah, there's hand trapping and elbows from him.

Tight—

this, this stuff that does work if you know all the other shit. It's an added element, right? It's like there's mo— there's moves that you could do that you're just— that your opponent's not gonna— your opponent is used to this, right? They're used to punches, like regular punches. Every now and then weird shit can work because they don't see it coming, and then it opens up other big shots. And Wing Chun can— those guys, when you watch the really good ones like whack at each other's arms and shit, you're like, okay, there's like a little value in this. Yeah, there's a little value in getting good at this, as long as you know how to actually punch.

Yeah, I don't dismiss nothing because anything can work in the right context.

It's just not gonna work on Terence Crawford.

Yeah, not in a boxing match against Terence Crawford. It's not gonna work.

I don't know what is working against him anyway.

Fuckin' not much.

No one has figured that out. Not much. No one has figured that out.

Not much.

Listen, you could have fun with it, but as far as value, I'd say very little value.

Very little. Because it's only valuable if you're already doing the other stuff.

Yeah, if you're gonna do that, you might as well be doing Muay Thai, Western boxing, or jiu-jitsu.

No, no, I— for sure, by itself, useless. But what I think is if you already are doing other stuff and you could train with a guy who can show you some of it, I think you would be like, oh, I see value in this. Like, do you remember when Dan Henderson was fighting Hector Lombard and he hit him with like a back elbow? Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or back forearm. It was an elbow or forearm? It was an elbow.

Yeah, I think he like threw a punch and came back.

Just wild shit sometimes. You ever see people do standing back fists sometimes and they work? There's some shit that we're missing.

Yeah.

And like, I think Wing Chun is a part of it.

Yeah, I agree with that. Like, especially like when you're in close, like in clinching positions, but I think you're just like trapping hands inside.

You know what I think is the number one thing that people need— should be doing? The number one thing that people should be doing is point fighting karate. It's, you know, like you want to add something— I mean, not obviously, not number one over wrestling and all that, but number one thing to add in and out— don't add Wing Chun, but it's so—

but that's such a It's a physical thing that a lot of people probably can't do, especially if you come from a wrestling background where you're so used to being like heavy.

Yeah.

And square.

Yeah. To be able to turn sideways in and out, jump in and out like that. But if you can do it, that advantage is so huge. When you watch like MVP when he's in his fucking prime.

That's so funny. When he did the Chara Bullet.

Yeah, but the thing about— yeah, back elbow.

Crazy. Damn.

What a beautiful elbow from a wrestling position. Yeah, let me see that again.

How did he land it?

So yeah, he had his leg. Look at that, he's holding his leg and he catches— look at the fucking elbow. Oh, right, son. Fantastic. What a fucking elbow. That's one of the greatest elbows of all time. Underappreciated elbow right there. To get a knockout elbow while you're hopping on one leg.

Yeah, that's crazy.

Fighting off the takedown.

Yeah, that was nasty.

Nasty.

Wasn't Wing Chun.

But what I was getting to is these guys like MVP, that advantage is so huge. The advantage of being Wonderboy in his prime, yeah, bro, that advantage is so nuts.

Well, so I watch videos of people doing it online. I'm like, if you could do that in an MMA fight, right, no one will catch you, right? It's—

you'll be in and out before they catch you. You know who's closest to it? Cyril Gane.

It's true.

Cyril Gane is not a point fighting karate guy, he's a Muay Thai guy, but he's a basketball player. Yeah, we were talking about this the other day, like, what better sport to develop plyometrics and the ability to change direction than basketball. You're constantly changing direction, and they're big men.

Then why can't basketball players fight? They're the worst fighters on the planet.

They don't train.

That's true.

Just because they don't train. Yeah, but Cyril Gane, you look at the way he moves, like he moves like a basketball player can move, but he's £250 and he's a heavyweight, and he can fucking strike.

Yeah, I remember I used to train Walt Harris, who was a pretty good basketball player, and I used to always try to tell him, man, it's the same thing. Your pivots are the same. You got to be able to move, change directions. It's the same thing. But as a heavyweight, it also comes with being lazy. Yeah, those guys are just lazy.

Well, it's harder to do. Fuck you, Dean. It's harder to move all that weight, right? It's like, it's hard to get a 248-pound guy to move like Cyril Gane. There's not a whole lot of them. We were just talking about it the other day. I think it's an underappreciated thing because we're used to lighter weight fighters moving like that. But like, me, I'm like, name one, name one guy at heavyweight who moves like that. You know who used to— who, you know, used to— was the dark horse of the heavyweight division? Travis fucking Brown. When Travis Brown was in his prime, he was a bad motherfucker, dude, and he moved light. He was a big tall dude and he moved light.

And Arlovski used to—

he just had a lot—

he had some, you know, wars. Yeah, they take their toll on you. But if you go back to like Travis Brown in his heyday when he was knocking people out with those elbows from the clinch and the way he would move, like, he would move like super light on his feet, like bouncing around. And I think it was because he played basketball.

It's got to be it.

100%. It makes sense because I know Travis played basketball. Yeah, you know, he said when you get a big athlete that's light on their feet, that's a giant advantage. Yeah, it is, because you only need one entrance that you didn't anticipate when you get popped, and just now you're compromised.

Getting that first step and being able to get a clean shot.

Dude, those karate point— I've only fought a couple of karate point fights when I was a kid, when I was doing taekwondo tournaments. We'd enter into them, and I fought this one guy that was like— his name was Mafia Holloway. He was like a champion. I couldn't even touch him. I couldn't even get close to him.

His first name was Mafia?

Mafia Holloway. No, he's a very famous— I don't know if it was a real name, but that's what his name was back in the day.

Mafia.

He was like a well-known black belt point fighting champion. I couldn't even touch him. I was like, Jesus, we're playing totally different games. I'm playing a continuous fighting game, which where you're, you know, you fight in taekwondo for a certain amount of minutes, and he's playing this thing where you stop every time they hit you. And so you can't hit him and he keeps hitting you. Yeah, and it's just stop, stop, stop, stop.

It's like, oh, frustrating.

But I remember leaving going, ooh, I need to learn that. Like, that's crazy. I didn't know you could move that quick and just jump out of there the way he's doing it. I'm like, and you think about like these guys that fight him, like Kevin Holland that fight MVP. Yeah, after a while they're like, what the fuck?

Yeah, for real. He was in his corner saying that, like, I can't—

he's quicker than I thought.

What am I doing here? This is nuts. You just can't do anything to him and he's styling on you.

Yeah, that's how— when I trained Tyron to fight Stephen Thompson, Wonderboy, we did— so I was— I knew the mistake that everybody was making. They were using just regular tall kickboxers. I went to karate schools and we got just karate kids that did that. For him to spar with. And I was like, don't worry about takedowns, we don't even need to get there. Just be able to deal with this movement and his length and being able to deal with that because it's different. What is this?

Oh shit, yeah, it's got a crazy kick here, right? Dude was very good. There is— he was very good. He didn't get me with that. He got me with a couple of sidekicks to the body though. I'll tell you that. I was very impressed. I was impressed by the speed in which he was able to like move forward and back, because that darting in and just tagging each other speed is a totally different speed than like continuous fighting speed. Because continuous fighting speed, you would assume that if the guy's hitting you, that you're gonna counter and you're gonna exchange. And what these guys are used to is you never exchange. They just pop you. They pop you and they get the fuck out of there.

And that's That's an asset in MMA.

Giant asset.

You just knock somebody out.

That's it. It's a giant asset also. It's like if you try to play their game, you should just try to play their game just to realize how hard it is. And you're like, oh, this is a crazy— this is a different thing. This is all about the blitz. It's all about the entry.

They switch stances at will too.

At will.

Yeah, at will, you know. But I think all the good guys do now. I think that's gonna be a prerequisite. There's too many calf kickers out there.

Yeah, you gotta be able to switch.

You guys watch ONE? You watch kickboxing in ONE? Did you see Jonathan Haggerty and Yuki Yosa?

It wasn't good for Haggerty, was it?

No, he won. He figured him out. Haggerty was—

he's the guy to beat that dude that was wrecking everybody.

He's an elbow guy. Well, he's just a full-on Muay Thai guy, but he beat him by continuous movement and switching stances.

Oh, right.

Yeah, I think I saw the video.

I did see that.

Really technical fight. Like, if you really like striking, yeah, it's a really technical fight. He did an amazing job of just constantly giving them different looks and switching stances and moving and then catching them in exchanges. And dude, it was fucking beautiful because Yosef crushes everybody's legs. It was really sweet. He just kept switching stances, kept switching stances, and he did a lot of great boxing from the outside too. Yeah, it was just— but he never gave him the same look. Oh, see that? Look at that. And then knees to the body, a lot of knees to the body. It was Beautiful, brilliant fight. I was just chatting with him on Instagram. I'm gonna try to get him on.

Nice.

Bring him to America. Like, it's— this is what Zuffa should be promoting, you know? I mean, I know they love boxing. That's awesome. I'm glad they're doing that. But, you know, this is it. Yeah. If you want another thing that's really exciting, it's striking. Just have only Muay Thai.

I'm just surprised they haven't done that.

It doesn't make any sense. That's what everybody likes to watch.

Everybody likes to do—

Dana says He said to me, I don't know if he changed his opinion, but he said to me that people don't like kickboxing because they think of like PKA karate from ESPN from like the 1980s. I'm like, that's old people.

Is that what he said? Yeah, he said that's old people.

They don't even know what that is.

That's old people.

Young people love martial arts. Like young people love knockouts. Young people boo when fights go to the ground.

They do.

MMA is the best. No doubt about it. It's the greatest sport of all time. It's the champion of sports. However, if you're gonna have some value in another combat sport, it's Muay Thai. It's the most exciting shit. You could do the most options. You can knee, they could throw each other, they do all kinds of wild kicking.

You think Rico Verhoeven's boxing success will bring some eyes to kickboxing?

I'm having him on too. Nice. Hope so. I hope so.

That was great. He's really phenomenal.

I mean, dude, for 10 rounds, he really He was into the point where if you, if you're good judges, if the judges are real, he— Usyk needs a knockout to win.

Yeah, 1,000%, which is— he was up, I thought he was up by 8, like 8 to 1 or 2 at the time.

I thought the same. A lot of people thought the same. I mean, he was, he was bullying him around. He was moving.

He used his weight well. Did he shit on him?

Cardio's incredible.

And it was phenomenal because he put my style against Usyk and it was just a Jim Carrey in that fucking— what's the one where, you know, he comes boxing at the guy?

It almost looked like it too.

It was fucking phenomenal. But, but man, he really did amazing. I, I personally think if they rematch that now Usyk will like kind of figured him out, so maybe it'll happen faster. Look, I hope not because I was rooting for Rico. He really—

rematch, it was amazing. Rico was gonna know that he can do that. Like before that fight, he didn't know he could do and Usyk didn't know he could do that. And the difference is Usyk is not a real heavyweight. He's the greatest heavyweight of all time, which is crazy, but he's not a real heavyweight, right? He's— you can't say the— like, Tyson, in my opinion, is always gonna be my favorite in his prime. Yeah, he was just so insane. It was so insane to watch him just demolish the whole division, real. But then you look at Cassius Clay, and then when he was Muhammad Ali, and Larry Holmes doesn't get his due, and Lennox Lewis was a fucking beast. So maybe, you know, who knows who would have, right? But that guy stylistically is like the greatest heavyweight ever. Like, watching him move the way—

like, skill for skill, when you look at his skill, you're watching an artist.

Yeah, it's like the way— the way he put it on Dubois.

Yeah.

Oh my God, he's incredible. But he's still a really— a 220-pound guy. Yeah, you know, like, he puts on some extra weight, he gets a little— he was a little thicker for that fight, but, you know, Rico's huge. Rico's a giant. He's a giant guy from the Netherlands. Is that where he's from?

That's a real heavyweight.

Dutch, another Dutch kickboxer. They're all giants. They're all tough as shit too. What is he like, 6'5", 270?

He's huge.

260.

He's got crazy cardio too for a big giant guy.

He was bouncing on— I mean, he was— for 10 rounds he kept that pace. That's a heavyweight keeping that pace. And then once he slowed, you know, that's when Usyk was able to find him.

Did you watch it, Matt?

I can't watch— I have a hard time watching anything but fucking mixed martial arts. I love jiu-jitsu.

And Star Wars.

I love jiu-jitsu. Yeah, well, you know, Star Wars. I saw the new He-Man movie, by the way.

How was it?

It was fucking good.

Really?

The Masters of the Universe was good. I was worried because I'm thinking all the new reboots and this and that. I go, is it gonna be too woke? Is it gonna be this? Is it. It was fucking fun. It had a, uh, Thor: Ragnarok type feel where it's just kind of fun and a little goofy, but not to the point where it just takes you out of it. You know what it is? I grew up with that He-Man. Yeah, that was my— yeah, that was my— I was a kid. Yeah, around our age, right?

Yeah, right.

So it did justice to that. Like, you know, it made it fun.

Skeletor was awesome.

Yeah, yeah, Jared Leto.

Yeah, yeah.

I heard there was like some sort of crazy like he wasn't allowed to do interviews, wasn't allowed to talk to the rest of the cast.

Why?

Because they're worried he's gonna do nutty shit. Like, he went in the Joker, he was like sending people dead rats in the mail and stuff. Oh really? Yeah, dude, like, because he was, he was in character.

Yeah, you know, that's why.

So they were like, yeah, you're gonna be an evil fucking Skeletor guy. No, no, we can't let you be in character. I can't contact the rest of the crew. I don't know if that's true. That's what I heard, but it was fun. See if that's true.

No, I heard that too. I heard, um, Will Smith said something about that.

Yeah, I thought somebody said—

I know he did.

Somebody said, you know, he definitely did that with the Joker, rat or something. Yeah, he was the Joker.

Yeah, yeah.

Said, I know you're playing the Joker, but come on with the rest.

Yeah, yeah, you would chill out. But, uh, no, that's just—

there's some dudes that played the Joker and you're like, all right, it's over. Hey, I heard when Heath Ledger played the Joker, like, everybody stopped. Yeah, that's the Joker.

Yeah, yeah, you can't come back after that until Joaquin, Joaquin Phoenix.

Yeah, he's—

well, he's Yeah, they came out. I saw that, I was like, okay, now that's the Joker.

Yeah, yeah. Then you saw the sequel and you said, fuck that, bring back—

I didn't see the sequel. Tim Dillon told me it was the worst movie that's ever been made.

Everybody said that. Did it— like, I didn't see it neither. I didn't make it.

I didn't watch it.

If I was guessing, he probably didn't want to do it.

I don't know what they were thinking.

I bet it was like a dispute between like the movie company and the dude. I don't know. Why would you do that? Yeah, unless you're trying to mock it. Yeah, or you're trying to defuse it. Maybe the government was like, hey, after you released that movie, we had the BLM riots and everybody's lighting LA on fire. Hey, maybe don't have a movie where you're encouraging people to like light cities on fire. Maybe make a musical.

Yeah, so crazy.

Trying to defuse the Joker movement with a musical.

It's funny how the first— if I never seen I mean, sequels aren't normally as good as the original, but holy fuck, I never seen something so bad. I didn't make it through it. I saw some of it, and then I'm like, once I started singing, I'm like, I'm out of this motherfucker.

It's very rare where a sequel, you're like, damn, that's just as good.

Well, Terminator 2, Empire Strikes Back, those are a couple.

Those are a couple.

Rocky 2. You didn't like Rocky 2? John Wayne was obviously—

why did he take it to the zoo in the beginning? Why? I never get over that. A little—

I like the zoo.

The other—

it's a whole joke. Go stare at the giraffe.

The whole, the whole joke was that beat— that mean bodyguard saying, take her to the zoo, the retards like this. And then he takes her to the fucking zoo to propose to her. Is that not crazy?

Yeah, that is, bro.

That's how people were in the '70s.

They were animals.

But he's basically just saying that, right? You're right.

People were animals before the internet.

Are you still doing You do movie reviews on your channel? Oh, you trying to plug my channel? No, well, I'm saying, yeah, you know what I'm watching on there? I do, I do series reactions or movies reactions. Are you watching the new House of the Dragon?

No, I haven't seen it yet.

There's too many things to watch. Let me tell you something, I'm fucked. I'm in the middle of From.

I, I, that's— I want to talk to you about that too.

My wife, my wife's mad at From.

Um, you know what, don't tell me why. Is that your show? Season 4, Episode 5, I think.

I think— how many seasons is it? 5?

Oh, there's only 4.

4.

And then the 5th one is the final season. It doesn't come out until 2027, so don't tell me.

Sure. All right, all right.

Hey, House of the Dragon. Now look, I love Game of Thrones. The Night of the Seven Kingdoms was phenomenal. And House of the Dragon, out of all of them, is the one I like the least because it's a lot of just gloom and doom. It's, uh, you know, all the characters are pricks. They're all a bunch of fucking wacky talking. Yeah, there's no one to like. Exactly.

No one's noble.

But this one, this third season is fucking— I watch— yeah, I do the reactions on my channel. Thanks, Dean.

What is the channel?

The Matt Serra channel on YouTube.

Look at this, he's contemplating.

Oh, that's me!

It's like he's contemplating.

You know what this is? Do you ever see Mystery Science Theater? That was like Mystery Science Theater.

Yeah, well, they showed the back of their heads. The former UFC welterweight champion of the world, and you're sitting there with the headphones on.

Great.

This is what I think about House of Dragons.

Yeah, you didn't have to do that.

That's 200mg of edibles right there.

It's 55mg. You know what scene—

you know what scene I really love? When they were trying to find Targaryens, because the Targaryens had a bunch of bastard children. They're trying to see who's a Targaryen, so they put people out with the dragons.

That was burning them up, bro. The price previous seasons had some good scenes like that. Yeah, but this season, I just watched 3 of them so far.

I'll get in.

Each one of them is— it's all— it's nothing but fighting now. It's nothing about but going at it.

Let's go.

And it's fucking good.

Yeah, all right, good. I mean, I watched— I watched the whole season of the whole, uh, all the episodes of Game of Thrones recently.

Then you went back and started—

went back? Yeah, we watched it for like 4 or 5 months, watched every one of them. When you watch it like every couple nights a week, like 2, 3 nights a week when you're watching It's like you, you just like, you follow, you don't have to wait like years in between seasons. Yeah, it's incredible. Better that way. It's the greatest epic adventure show in the history of the world. I tell people that all the time.

I'm like, you gotta watch it.

Yeah, yeah, good dude, for sure. I forgot how good it was. And even though it's 10 years old, special effects are perfect.

Yeah, for sure. Here's— I'm gonna say something I never said in my life. There's a new book I'm reading. What? Hey guys, hold on, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Is it a graphic novel?

Son of a bitch. No, it's not. It is, um, and all right, I gotta be honest, I'm listening to the audiobook. Oh, okay. I hate when people say they're reading a book when they really listen to the audiobook.

Ronald Rollins gave me so much shit about that because it's not true. He's like, how you reading when you just listen? I'm just trying to abbreviate it. Yes, I listened to an audiobook. Sorry, I didn't sit down and read it.

Rising. Red Rising. Have you ever heard of this? No. Well, you're gonna document this episode because sooner or later someone's gonna pick it up and it's gonna become either an Amazon series or a movie. My— one of my black belts, Jedi Joey Beans, told me about this ages ago.

What a great name. Yeah, Jedi Joey Beans.

Oh, Joey Beans is a savage.

Jedi Joey Beans is a fucking great name.

Oh, he's great. But, uh, he likes all the shit I'm into, so he told me about this.

I'm gonna write it down. What is it called again?

Red Riot. All right, that's it. And, uh, I'll tell you, I don't know how many books there are, but I'm listening to the first one and I'm like more than halfway through. And it's—

what's it about?

Uh, set in future on Mars.

Whoa. Red Rising is a 2014 dystopian science fiction novel. You guys are a bunch of fucking bullies, first of all. You guys are a bunch of fucking— this is why I got into martial arts.

Telling us he's reading My Short Friend, telling us he's reading, and Dystopian comes out.

Somebody else read it. Bunch of pricks. Hey, listen to me, this is, this is a great book.

This is a great book, uh, and I like getting into something new.

Well, how long is the—

No, that's regular coffee. There's a cup if you want coffee coffee.

You know what, that would be—

Unless you want a little baby. I was trying to figure out what you're going to do with that.

I didn't know what I was doing.

I'm like, I'm down for that. I'm down for that.

Yeah, the Red Rising, man, that was really good. Pass me that coffee, man. It's like, uh, Game of Thrones in space.

Oh, I'm nice. I'm in.

Oh, you know what I started watching because of you guys? That, uh, Battlestar Galactica. Fucking great. I'm like, I'm, I'm only on the first season. There's like 20 episodes a season. I'm like, I'm like 10 in right now.

Yeah, that was the Sci-Fi Channel, bro. That show was so underrated. Underrated. So underrated. Like, to this day, if you go back and watch Battlestar Galactica, the entire series, it's fucking incredible.

Very good.

The new one, not the old one.

Yeah, not the original.

Hi, Orkaman. Yeah, that's right.

Here's what I'm gonna recommend. You could watch it with your wife or by yourself, whatever you want to do. Porn? What's that? You're gonna say porn?

That's always good. Or by yourself.

Um, Widow's Bay.

Widow's Bay.

Oh, what is that?

What is that?

Apple TV comes out with some fucking bangers. Bangers. Uh, Silo's another great one, but, uh, Widow's Bay, it's very rare. It's about an island that's kind of cursed, and a mayor is trying to get it to become like the next fucking, uh, Martha's Vineyard or whatever that is. And he— and, you know, this is it.

Oh, that guy, that guy was in The Beast Within.

This is great, bro.

That guy's in another great fucking series that also might be Apple.

It's—

it might be.

It's very rare that something— I don't like Like, my family's a bunch of ghouls except for my oldest. They like all the horror shit. I'm not into it, but it's very rare. I like spooky shit, so it's like spooky but it's fucking funny. The character, it's, it's got like a quirky type humor to it, and I, I was fucking dying.

I was like, the Beast in Me is another one. It was, uh, what was it on? Netflix. It's on Netflix. It's still on Netflix. Um, it's a series and it's about an author and this fucking psychotic guy that that is a rich guy who lives in her neighborhood. I don't want to tell you any more than that.

It's a movie.

It's—

yeah, I saw that.

Claire Danes and that guy Matthew— you watch that show? I didn't watch it.

I didn't watch it, dude. Is it good? Good.

It's— but Claire Danes can act her ass off. This summer, soccer is here and the watch parties will be going back to back to back. But don't worry, Uber Eats has your game day essentials covered. All the snacks and groceries to keep your crowd happy delivered straight to your door, like chips, dips, wings, guac, and fresh ingredients for the perfect game day spread. Order in so you can stay locked in on the game. All the hosting, none of the hassle. Order in so you can lock in for the games only on Uber Eats for a limited time. Terms apply, see app for details. You never know if she was lying to you, right? You'd have no idea. There's fucking— there's no way you're gonna tell. The lip quiver Well, she could lie her ass off. She's, she's fantastic on that. We've got 98% on Rotten Tomatoes. That's how good it is. It's a great show.

The Beast in Me.

Yeah, there's too much shit to watch.

So much shit. I just started The Pit, so I'm like, and I'm, and I'm late on that.

So what's The Pit?

About the, um, the ER room in Pittsburgh. Oh yeah, she plays a doctor in the ER room. It's really good though. Okay, there's some I'm into for a while, then I just fucking fall off.

I never heard of it. There's too many shows.

Yeah.

It, right? I did that with Landman. After a while, I'm just like, new season of Landman's good. I don't give a shit about the slutty wife, and the daughter's annoying.

She plays the stripper wife well.

After a while, it's just like, all right. I go, they get to some interesting shit with like the cartels after them, and then they're, oh, let's take the, uh, the seniors out to the strip joint. It's like, here we go. Oh, the wife's being outrageous again, right?

It's like, I mean, it's true.

I mean, I don't got my ADD, I can't take it.

That's fun.

Now that was my problem with it too. I thought that the, the women were like caricatures of women. Yeah, come on, man.

It was too much. Who's cheering their daughter on basically to be a hoe?

Yeah, I was kind of like, yeah, I have a question though, if you guys all seen it. Why does the— why do they live together? Like the, uh, the, the other lawyer, and why do they all live with Billy Bob Thornton and his family?

That's a plot point.

Yeah, yeah, there's no other reason why.

Yeah, because there's only one house on the ranch or something. I don't know, because I'm just like, they all have to live in the one house.

It's his office and his home, basically.

It makes it fun. But isn't he making a lot of money?

Shouldn't all of them be making a lot of money?

You would think his lawyer would be making big bank, you know.

Well, now he's got to be making money because now he's running the company.

Spoiler alert, right? Right.

So he's making more money.

Yeah, he's making sure they're eating their vegetables.

Yeah, it's mad about it.

Any, anything, it just I love Billy Bob though. Billy Bob in that show is so good.

He makes the show.

He makes the show. He is the show. Taylor said that he wouldn't have even made the show if it wasn't for Billy. Really? He went to Billy with the idea, 'Cause I'm not gonna make this if you're not gonna be in it.

He made the show. I thought Andy Garcia was good in it too. Oh, Andy Garcia is great.

He's great in everything.

Yeah, yeah.

You ever see Things to Do in Denver When You're Dead?

Hell yeah.

Fucking Longo loves that lemon.

Dude, that's a classic.

I can't get into that fucking movie. I like it too. I hate that movie. I never made it through. Loves that fucking movie.

I'm with you, I'm with you, Ray.

I'm with you. Lemon loves it.

I, I listen, in all fairness, in all honesty, I haven't seen it in decades, but when I saw it, I loved it. But the problem is sometimes you go back and you try to watch one of them movies and you're like, oh man, what was I thinking? What was wrong with me? This movie sucks a fat one. There's a bunch of movies like that. You try to watch them, they're terrible.

Yeah, sometimes it's just better, better off remembering how good they used to be.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, The Impact, you were just I was a more naive person before the internet.

Yeah, true. I watched one of the worst movies that was so fucking good that it was bad. It was Rowdy Roddy Piper.

Rowdy Roddy Piper?

Yes.

100 milligrams.

We saw him last night too, Joey.

Joey, that's right.

Hell Comes to Frogtown. Down. Now it's a, it's a, it's a combination of, say, like Mad Max, like a post-apocalyptic thing, and Escape from New York, where in the future Rowdy Roddy is the only guy who's not fucking sterile. Everybody else is sterile.

So I'm sure everybody's chasing them for it.

So they have to, like, it starts off when he's in like a fucking general's, he's in like a room because he got caught with the general's daughter. And fucking, they put a, they put a, um, a jockstrap on him with explosives. And he has to— oh my God, he has to do a frog. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. So he has— his mission is to go to this frog's town, and there's a harem there, and he's got to impregnate everybody or else they're gonna fucking blow him up.

Sounds like a horrible job.

It is crazy, this movie.

What a silly movie.

Oh yeah, no, no.

Oh my God, you can't unsee it.

So he could cut out Frogtown. This is amazing.

He cut out halfway through Things to Do in Denver When You're Dead. Oh yeah, but he's in for Frogtown.

Yeah, but I agree with this. You know what you're getting into. It's not a bunch of people pretending to be cool, you know. It's like, this is just silly.

How did you even find this and then sit down and watch the whole thing? This is the thing. Well, you know You know, it's well documented about my ass problems. So sometimes I spend a lot of time on the throne and I got my iPad, so I go to Prime Video and it's almost like when I was little, like I used to go through the channels and I'm like up all night, I'd find something wacky. So I look for weird or different movies and that's one of them. And I just, it just brought me right in. I watched that whole, in two shits I watched that whole fucking movie.

What was the one when he was an alien? That's a crazy amount of time to shit.

Is it called They or whatever?

I'm on the toilet a long time. It's crazy to shit for 2 hours, you're saying?

A little. Well, not for 2 hours, but the budget for this movie was double what that movie Obsession was that just came out.

That's almost—

my wife said that movie was great.

So the budget was $1.5 million back then? Yeah, in 1988. Wow. So was this a small release?

Yeah, it has to be.

Who made this movie? What was the company that made New World Pictures? That's a big company. Maybe they sold it to New World. I don't know how all that shit works.

Was this before or after They Live?

Well, They Live was good.

They live.

That's what I'm saying.

Maybe they bankrolled it. But I bet if you tried to watch— Return to Frogtown was released in '93. He was direct to VHS, bro, before even DVD. They're like, nope, fuck this.

Straight put it on tape. Now listen, everybody, don't go watching this and cursing me. I mean, you got to know what you're getting into.

That's exactly what it looks like. TV Guide only gave it 2 out of 5 stars. How dare they?

DVD Talk said 3.

But I'll tell you, he's hysterical in it though. He's fucking—

it only got released in tech for some reason. I bet if we watched They Live right now, we wouldn't like it. I bet we'd be like, oh, it's still pretty funny if you watch. Is it good? When was the last time you saw it?

I mean, it's one of them movies when you're flipping around, if it's on, because him and the— who's the— what's the to his guy's name. Remember, they had basically a wrestling match in the fucking alley. They were—

the black guy from Network.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's movies from like the '80s and the '90s.

There it is.

There's movies from the '80s and the '90s that become comedies. Yeah, like they used to be—

this is a comedy right here.

But this is kind of a comedy. This is like a little tongue-in-cheek. But then there's stuff like Roadhouse, right? Like Roadhouse is a comedy now, right?

For sure.

Roadhouse is such a bad movie. Yeah, it's so bad. I mean, it's insanely bad. The bad guy's bad, the writing is bad, everything is bad. Everything's bad except for Patrick Swayze's hair.

That's amazing. It was appropriate at the time, '80s, everything was cheesy.

We were dumb. People were dumb back then, you know. That's what I think. I think we were dumb.

Miami Vice, you know.

No internet, people were stupid. It's true, you're right.

We were only, we were only exposed to what we were exposed to in your area.

Yeah, with I thought, that's a solid movie. Yeah, you should go see Roadhouse.

I'll tell you what, that good guy, you're gonna root for him.

Yeah, he's complicated, but he's tough. He's quiet and he likes poetry. He fucks people up and he says, pain don't hurt.

Pain don't hurt.

The karate scenes are so bad. Like, everything is so bad. It's so fake. It's so dumb looking, but it's still awesome.

Hey bro, Sam Elliott in his backup, had an 80-year-old backup.

But dude clearly could barely walk. He's like KOing guys left and right. Crap!

That's it, mijo.

He's awesome in everything though. Sam Elliott's awesome.

Everything.

Every time you see Sam Elliott in a movie, like, yes.

I think the bad guys— didn't he tell Patrick, what's his name, that he was gonna fuck— that he used to fuck guys like him in prison?

Yes, yes.

Sam Elliott, that's the one who played Landman's father, right?

Yes. Yeah, yeah, he's awesome.

He's always good.

Yeah, he's great.

Always in everything.

He's real-life Marlboro Man.

Exactly, yeah, he's great in everything. Yeah, that movie was so bad. But the thing is, back then it wasn't.

Yeah, everything in the '80s was bad.

Probably. TV shows were insane. You watch them, you're like, what were they doing? Yeah, trying to brainwash America. Roger Ebert's review is that this is right on the edge of a good/bad movie and merely the bad. It's not a good movie. Well, he's right, it's not a good movie, but viewed in the right frame of mind, it's not a boring one either. Ah, that's the thing. Gene Siskel was less complimentary, calling it outrageous in terms of its cartoon-like plotting and dialogue, and lamenting Swayze's mindless posturing. A young star has sold himself to become a pinup boy. Someone sounds a little jelly. Come on, someone sounds a little jelly. That sounds a little jelly to me. Acting, it's called—

it's called getting paid.

Yeah, I made a movie and thought it was going to be better than it was, right? Okay, let's move on.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

Classic.

To this day, people are still talking about about it, bro.

Basically every actor that's ever lived has been in a couple lemons.

Of course, that's part of the process.

Except maybe Daniel Day-Lewis.

He's probably a little bit more—

maybe that's like one— a lot of people didn't watch that Lincoln one. That might be the only one I didn't like. I don't know anybody who was like raves about the Lincoln movie, right?

What about the Vampire Hunter Abraham Lincoln?

That was crazy.

Did anybody see that? I never seen it.

I never saw that.

That was Daniel.

Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter is crazy. That should have been made in the '80s. No, it should have been. It should have been made in the '80s.

Yeah, it's like a comic book. Did anybody see it? It sounds like a Marvel comic.

Yeah, I've never seen it. I didn't see it either. Sounds like something I would watch.

It sounds like something I would recommend. It was pretty fun.

It's funny.

Was it good? The Vampire Hunter thing?

Vampire Hunter.

Yeah, it was— Vampire Hunter. It was— to me, it was like a comedy thing.

I might have seen it and forgotten about it.

Yeah.

I don't even remember if I saw it.

I mean, you get high enough when you watch the movies, they're cool, but you don't really remember details all the time. So— Yo, you know what I'm looking forward to?

That, uh, new werewolf movie. Oh, Eggers' guy, the same guy that did Nosferatu, he's doing a— where they just released a trailer.

Did they?

What's it called?

Werewolf. Yeah, Werewolf. I saw that.

It's spelled weird, but it's basically a werewolf.

Oh shit, where's it take place?

I don't know, some foreign country. You can hear them speaking some strange language, you know. It's like, give me some volume.

Oh man. Oh, I want to see that. Yeah.

That looks pretty wild.

Robert Eggers is the shit.

Oh, Christmas though. How was the vampire?

Christmas should be a Halloween release.

How was the vampire one?

Fuck yeah, it was awesome.

You think I'd like it? Yeah, it just— I don't know.

It's good, dude.

It is.

I think it's the best vampire movie of all time.

Interview with a Vampire?

Yeah.

Nosferatu?

Yeah, I think Nosferatu is the best vampire movie of all time. It's my opinion. I think it's the best. It's like, I've seen a bunch of them. Gary Oldman one was amazing. That was a great— that Dracula one with Keanu Reeves, that was—

yeah, that was awesome.

That's still great. But man, there's something about Eggers' Nosferatu. It's like, it's more terrifying than all of them. You're like, it's just something— it's more hypnotic. Like, he's got powers over people. Like, it's weird the way he influences people. It's like, it's creepy.

Yeah, like the way that looks shot I can see what you're saying.

Like, you see the Nosferatu?

No, I didn't see it.

Show me a scene where they're— when he's making him sign the contract. There's a scene where the dude has to go to his house, and he doesn't know—

spoiler alert—

like what contract he's signing because he's signing it in a language that he doesn't know to sell a house to this prince that lives in Romania. He goes to visit this guy. It's the creepiest fucking scene ever. And this is the first scene where you like see him and you slowly gets revealed like what he is.

Yeah.

The best vampire movie movie of all time.

Just the best. All right, you'll love it. I'm going to watch it.

It's so well done.

Watch it with my boy. How careless of me, my lord. The language of my forefathers. Of course. Maiden's token. I see your bride. Just so hit— yes, may I? He wants to look at the bride.

Well, he wants this guy's wife. This is this whole contract. This is what this whole thing is about, of him going to this guy's town and buying house there from him. Like, this— it really just wants this guy's wife. He's like eternally connected to her. Oh, it's creepy as fuck, dude.

Oh shit, I gotta watch this.

Oh yeah, it's good.

I gotta watch this.

Best vampire movie. Is it?

I gotta watch this ever.

Yeah, some people disagree, that's fine. My opinion.

You ever see Lost Boys?

That was good.

That was fun though.

I bet if you watched it today, you'd be like, what?

Yeah, you'd be like, yo, this is corny as shit. John Rallo with long hair, I still believe. With the fucking saxophone. I was, is that you, Rallo? With the saxophone? With a fucking wig.

There's a Broadway show for it now. Lost Boys the Broadway show?

Oh my God.

Boo.

Dude, boo.

First of all, boo Broadway. I saw Spider-Man. I saw Spider-Man. I saw Rocky. Two things I love. It's like going to see a Spider-Man movie with the worst special effects ever. All of a sudden there's a guy swinging and everybody's like, oh! I go, dude, what the— really? Show me the one with Macy Barber in it. I'm fucking— uh, not Macy Barber, Marcy Barber. Who's the—

Macy Barber's a fighter.

Who's the black girl that used to sing? Macy Gray. Macy Gray.

100 milligrams.

She—

yep.

Yeah, I saw it. I couldn't see it.

How was this? There's a Rocky play?

It was fucking horrendous.

Do they box? Do they pull a ring out and everything?

Yeah, it's fucking awful. Wow. It's like—

does the guy try to imitate Stallone?

It's like what the movie is, but just what you're picturing on Broadway.

2012 or something, I think.

I've never seen anything I liked on that motherfucker. This.

This is it?

Oh, boo.

Oh, theater people, you're so silly.

Dude, I can't stand it.

And the guy sucks.

He can't box.

The beloved Oscar-winning story.

Dude, I just—

I mean, I assume Stallone did this.

I don't know.

I mean, he's got to own it.

It's like, it's a cover story.

I'm not into plays. I saw Dog Day Afternoon with Jon Bernthal on Broadway.

Oh really?

Yeah.

How was that?

It wasn't bad though. Like, he was really— he was really good in it.

He's really—

he's really good. You probably like that shit though. Did you—

did you ever get into The Punisher?

Oh, did you see the, uh, yeah, One Last Kill?

Yeah, I watched it.

That was good. It's a one-off.

Yeah, it's like an hour long. People think it's a movie. It's not a— it's not a movie. It's like—

that was good.

Yeah, I liked it.

That was really good. Season 1, him and the Daredevil was good.

Uh, yeah, he was good. He was real good.

Season was okay. Second season wasn't good, but that special was good. If you have to watch one thing, it's like 45 minutes to an hour Power.

Yep.

Uh, I did a watch-along on the Matt Serra channel.

I did, but it's awesome and everything. Jon Bernthal. Yeah, Walking Dead. He was amazing.

Yeah, he was.

He played such a good creepy friend. Yeah, when he came back to life.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That was crazy.

I met him a few times in real life. He's, you know, he can scrap a little bit.

Yeah, he's a very nice guy. Yeah, he was on the podcast. Enjoyed talking to him. Very smart. Yeah, interesting dude. Went to school in Russia.

Yeah, yeah, that's— I mean, that's a weird place to go learn acting.

Yeah.

And just so you know, on the— while we're on the topic, uh, The Punisher is going to be in Spider-Man: Brand New Day that's coming out.

Yeah, is that a movie?

Yeah, the new Spider-Man movie. Those—

they just keep swapping out Spider-Mans.

Yeah, but this, this Tom Holland Spider-Man, he's back in it again. He's yet to do a bad Spider-Man.

Yeah, I think he's good.

There's no job security in being Spider-Man.

No, hell no.

They got another dude waiting in the wings.

Or there is job security. They just brought Tobey Maguire back after 20 years, right?

Yeah, that's not a bad gig, the multiverse thing. But the thing is about Spider-Man is he's supposed to be like a college kid. Yeah, yeah.

Unfortunately, this guy looks like a little kid.

Tom Holland. Yeah, yeah.

Is the origin story— is he starts out as a, like, a college?

Yeah, he's a high school—

might be a high school.

Yeah.

Yeah, and then his Uncle Ben gets killed and he doesn't save— he doesn't stop the guy.

You know what else was fun was the Spider-Man Noir. Yeah, I was pulling that up.

Oh yeah, I just saw Jamie.

Me and you are right here, buddy.

Yeah, that's Nicolas Cage.

I watched that too.

That was fun.

Yeah, I thought it was pretty good.

That looks dope.

I thought it was good.

And you can watch it in color or black and white. They give you the option.

Yeah, Nicolas Cage is a fascinating dude, but another guy's been around forever.

He's the good Nicolas Cage in this. Yeah, some stuff you're watching him in, you're like, well, I think after, after that Pascal movie he did.

What's his name? Was in the title. It's like, I don't know, Being Nicolas Cage, right?

Right.

That movie brought him back. It was like Pulp Fiction for Travolta. Like, kicked him back off again.

What is that movie?

It was a great— where Pedro Pascal's like a drug dealer who's a big fan of Nicolas Cage. Oh, and he winds up like hiring him to come to his house to do something, and then he gets Cage's hemmed up in the cartel business.

The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent. That's what it's called.

Called. Is that it? Is that the name? Yeah, yeah, there it is. See, Being Nick Fucking Cage. So that's, uh, great.

B+.

That's not bad.

It was good.

Yeah, I'll probably check that out.

I watched part of it. I never got through the whole thing. No, it's just busy. But it looks hilarious.

Yeah, it's pretty— premise is hilarious.

You know, you're like an actor and you get these gigs, like, because people do things like that. They'll like show up at people's houses and parties. Like, someone wants to pay you a million dollars to go to Dubai and you're like, okay. Hey, so they fly to Dubai, then they have dinner with people and hang out with them and meet them, and people just cut them a check.

Damn. Yeah, shit, where can I get that?

I know, it's weird. Yeah, it's, uh, there's, there's, you know, so like Nicolas Cage, like that probably would happen where the cartel guy was like, that guy, he's my favorite. Like, remember when Sean Penn met El Chapo, right? What, he's hanging, hanging with El Chapo and did an article for Rolling Stone magazine where he talked about meeting El Chapo in No shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You don't remember? No.

Do you remember when Conor was wearing the El Chapo shirt? I do. He tried to do the pictures just like El Chapo did. Those were the pictures that he did with Sean Penn.

No shit.

Yes, that's the shirt. That's what Conor— what Conor's doing, that's what he's doing.

He's mocking him.

That's hilarious.

Speaking of Conor, how well does he do next week?

Boy, we're gonna find out. We're really gonna find out what's going on if it gets into the second and third round. That's when we're really gonna fight. We'll know, we'll know immediately at that point. But I mean, whether or not he can really fight for 5 rounds, like, I don't know if he can, man, with a great gas tank.

Yeah, Max says after 5 years of tearing your body up, it's—

you don't know, right? Because it's all in a vacuum. Like, there's some training footage of him beating guys up that you've seen, but who knows what he actually has been doing doing? We know he's been partying, but has he also been like really training? Because if he's been really training and it shocks everybody because he's still got his skills— yeah, I mean, my God, if he, if he somehow or another sparks out Max in like the first round, do you know how big he becomes? Oh, he's right back, right, right back. I mean, he's right back. Him and Justin Gaethje, the biggest fight in the history of the known universe. They go for the BMF title at 170. Right, Connor's like, I don't want to cut any weight, right? Fight would be crazy.

My only concern is, is his size. Like, Max struggled with bigger dudes like Dustin the first time, then Max came back bigger, which we know because when he went back down, he struggled, you know, with Arlovski, you know. I mean, went 5 rounds with Justin. So like, I'm just waiting to see, does— is Conor able to put that fucking weight on him and have a problem?

Is he a bigger dude though? They both fought at the same weight class. Yeah, they did start at 45.

Then you got When Max was fighting at 145, when he was a champion, he was walking around like 176. Yeah, he's a big—

he's a bigger guy.

Good.

I mean, I love Max, so like, it's hard for me to believe Conor's coming back.

I follow Max on YouTube. He's got a great channel, so recording all of his training and all stuff he's doing, and you know, you see him, he looks good, dude. He looks big.

Dustin Poirier thinks Max might be bigger.

Really?

Yeah, I mean, he says he's kind of thin, but he's got a bigger frame. He thinks he's gonna be bigger. He's tall.

Like, I mean, he came to my gym a couple couple times and he's like my height.

I think he made a big mistake going back to 45 after he did.

Yeah, I agree.

I think it's too hard. I just, I think it's just too hard on the body. And especially when he got— he beat— who's a thick 55 when he fought Justin. He looked good. Yeah, he looks solid at that weight. I think him fighting at that weight, he could actually fight. I think going down to 45, I think he's— I think he was fighting— it looked to me like he was in like— he was compromised. Like, I think the weight cut was just—

yeah, it was too much. Do you think the Justin fight and Max is different if he doesn't get caught with that kick early in the face? One, you know what I'm saying? Like, I would like to see that fight without Justin's compromise, right?

But I mean, that's what the beautiful thing about the fight game—

that was everything.

That was the intention, right? Could have been a KO, right? It shattered the bones of his nose, right? Yeah. So that for sure. I mean, but then, you know, you think— you see the way Max looked at 145 when he fought Ilia. But then you got to also factor in also he's fighting Ilia, and Ilia is so fucking good. Like, you look bad. Like, there's a lot of guys who don't look— he lands combinations on people and a lot of guys look bad. Doesn't mean they're bad.

I'd like to see Max and Justin again if Max pulls it off.

But then again, like, what are you gonna do for Ilia? Like, if Ilia wants a rematch, like, could I justify that?

I don't believe so.

I think you give him Paddy if Paddy wins.

That's what I think. That's what his next fight should be.

I think Paddy beats—

I think Paddy wins.

You think Paddy beats Ilia?

No, I think he beats Saint Denis to get to Ilia. I think his— he gets hit way too much to beat Ilia.

Well, Ilia's sharp. He's so sharp with his striking. I rewatched that fight.

Yeah, I like Paddy in this one.

Saint Denis is not an easy—

I don't think he's easy. He's a beast.

I just think his Paddy striking's a little better and his jiu-jitsu's better. I think the only place Saint Denis has has the advantages in the wrestling. Just my opinion.

I don't know, man. Saint Denis switched camps and then made that big adjustment after he lost to— who'd he lost to?

Moicano.

Yeah, after the Moicano fight. He's looked a lot better.

If Paddy puts him on his back at all, like, I don't— does Saint Denis train off his back? Because it didn't look like it in that Moicano match.

Paddy and Ilia would be huge.

Hell yeah.

Because they have history.

That's right, they got beef.

Fight. Yeah, that would be amazing.

That's the fight you make.

Do that shit in London.

I think that's, that's the, that's the right comeback fight for Ilia.

And also do that shit.

Joe's like, I'm going.

Oh my God, no, I don't want to get caught in a riot.

Yeah, not for anything.

They were careful. Might lock you up for your social media when you get over there.

They would too.

They were shitting on, uh, Paddy when he lost to Justin. And, uh, you know, he got compromised also that first round. I believe he got poked in the eye or whatever.

Whatever the case, he went 5 with him.

Yeah, he did go 5 with him. And, you know, and got battered and stood up to great shots. And he's gonna come out of that fight better. He'll know, okay, there's more work to be done. There's holes I have in my game. There's places where I got caught.

And he has improved over his— like, when he first got there, I didn't really think much of him, but each time out, he's— I think he gets a little better.

So yeah, dude, for sure. It's just Justin's in—

yeah, he's a savage. He's my favorite fighter, right? You know, been for a minute. Yeah, no doubt, because he's just always That's insane.

And especially after you see that second round when I rewatched it again, when Ilia was putting it on him in that second round, like, oh, those liver punches.

I know, like, how does he come back from this? If he—

more than one too.

So beautiful though too, like the way he delivers those shots, just clean. You know who else does it like that? Aaron Pico.

Yeah, yeah, great body work.

Yeah, 100%.

He's got the show. His— me too. He looked great.

He looked great.

Yeah, Pico. Yeah, because that was one of those guys—

I was fighting Pitbull, who's like, you know, a real legend.

But he— the way he mixed it together, the striking and the wrestling, was really good.

He just got crazy in his debut, and he just got a little just too hyped up, a little too aggressive against a guy who's way too skilled.

Yeah, you know, he's a hunter.

Yeah, I—

you know, he's like— I love that he's so aggressive, but, uh, that was a great comeback fight. Yeah, it was, because it shows that, that he's still in there, you know. You get worried when they— when you see people get their lights put out like that, you're like, oh, they can never be the same. And then when you see him come back and have a fight like that, being so intelligent, yeah, that's a good sign. But he has to make sure his defense is always good because his chin is still suspect regardless of how good his skill is. He still don't have a chin.

Well, he's been knocked down a bunch of times, you know. I mean, after a certain amount times it's easier to get knocked out. And you got to know he's been knocked out in training.

I always believe part of your chin is believing you can't be knocked out. And then when it happens to you that first time, instead of when you get your bell rung, you bite down on your mouthpiece, now you're like, oh shit, not again. Like, I think mentally it's, uh, maybe it's different, you know.

There's something to that probably. But then there's also like a—

well, if you get hit on the button, you get hit on the fucking button.

Yeah, it's like certain shit that violates your beliefs. Nobody do I see red, bro. Clang! Edson Barbosa wheel kicks you. I remember that one. That was in Brazil.

Terry Adam.

Yeah, he had a good one too.

That's one of those where you go, I don't think that guy's ever gonna be the same.

I don't think he was the same after that. No.

Yeah, I thought it right then and there. I was like, I think that was too hard. Yeah, that was too hard. That's a different shot.

And you've seen it where guys, they get one and then they're still in there, then you see them get a couple, and then next thing you know, their chin is gone. It's just— it's not it. And listen, Chuck Liddell's mentally strong, you know what I mean? I don't think he's being like, I wonder if this is gonna— you know, that's just his body saying— his body's trying to protect him.

Yeah, his body's saying enough of this. And then it's also the— apparently it's the lining inside your brain, all that fascia tears over time and repeated head traumas, and just there's a lot of swashing around around. So when you get dinged, your brain is literally going without shock absorbers, bouncing off the inside of your skull. That might not be the technical way that a neurosurgeon would describe it.

Hey man, listen, all those height jokes, I was like a little armadillo at the top of my head. I was covering that little motherfucker. Unless I'm running into a back fist, I was okay. Right, but it's so funny how everything just evolves. When I got stopped with the first— I was the first guy ever to get stopped with a back fist. And when I did, the people were like, yo, this guy must suck, nobody gets stopped with that shit. Now you see it on every card, right? And stop with back fist.

We used to have these conversations, like Eddie Bravo and I, at the beginning of the UFC about stuff that works that's not in there yet. Like, what about this? What about that? And you know the big one that I missed on?

What's that?

Front kick to the face. Face before Anderson Silva front kick V toward the face. I'm like, that shit doesn't work. Nobody does. Nobody does that. Yeah, no, yeah, it's too hard to land.

Yeah, then it's—

I don't know why I thought that.

You say you really thought that?

For a little bit, yes. I was like, it's not worth it. Yeah, I was like, that move is so powerful to the body. I was like, that's really where you should use it because you could land— it's a big target and you could really fuck a guy up. You get your most power with a front kick going straight. And I was like, to the face, it's like too hard to hit. Machida and Randy. I think it was like Vitor first, Anderson, Vitor first. I think that was the first one when we saw a real spectacular front kick knockout to the face. But then it was Machida and Randy, and then a bunch of people started doing it, and then front kicks to the face became like a staple of it.

Thanks, Sensei Seagal, for that.

How about Michael Chandler, Tony Ferguson? Yeah, yeah, or Chito Rivera, Frankie Edgar.

Oh yeah, yeah, that was bad for Frank.

Front kicks to the face are brutal. I just didn't see that coming. I really— cuz in martial arts tournaments, most people were throwing them to the body and not throwing them to the face. Even in kickboxing, not a whole lot of guys are throwing them to the face.

You know, the way Michael Chandler— I remember talking to him, he said he didn't even practice that.

That's—

he just says he just saw the opening and just threw the kick.

That's wild.

Yeah, that's so crazy.

And I think too, once a successful technique gets out there and people see it, you know, then all of a sudden, hey, I could fucking do that.

Yeah, 100%.

He had a rough outing the last one, Mike.

Oh yeah, that's a tough fight.

That was a bad matchup. That's like, that's Dana saying, Mike, it's time for you to retire.

Mike is 40. Hoofie is in his prime, and he It might be the scariest striker at 155. By the way, giant for 155.

I know, tall, like rangy. Yeah, good movement.

He's fucking good, bro.

He hit him with like 3 wheel kicks.

Yeah, yeah, he was just— I mean, it was target practice.

It's crazy how good he is.

And you talk about that taekwondo movement, he has that.

Exactly.

But with boxing hands, so it's crazy.

Yeah, you know, I mean, gotta tighten up the wrestling, the jiu-jitsu, and that's why I lost to Benoit Saint-Denis.

Yeah, but that was a good learning experience.

Yeah, when you see a guy who's that good fucking everybody up, you know, the way he put out King—

Jesus, that was real bad.

He does it like a video game.

And, and, and Fazeev—

and I thought that was gonna be a decent one.

And by the way, the Fazeev knockout, apparently he was like sick as a dog before the fight. Was— they were talking about pulling out of the fight.

No shit.

And he just took the fight anyway, had one of the best performances of his career. But that This guy's a— he's elite, man. And training with Volkanovski?

I know, only gonna make him better.

Perfect.

Yeah, for sure.

What better guy? Like wrestling strong, like animal featherweight that was like the king for so many years, won the crown again.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stick around with that guy, he'll show you how to get up. He'll show you how to not get taken down.

And Volkanovski, you know, he don't have much left in him.

Right, so he's gonna wanna coach guys.

Yeah, he's gonna wanna like pass it on. And you got the perfect guy to pass it on.

He's got a great fight eye. MQ. Yeah, very well-rounded too.

Volkanovski. Yeah, yeah, I think he's one of my favorites in terms of—

yeah, he's really grew on me. I didn't like him because of Max, you know, I was always rooting for Max, but, uh, you know, he's earned my respect. That guy's just— he's, he's good. He's good everywhere too. He really is.

The dude I got my eyes on the most is Carlos Prates.

I got my eyes on him.

Dude, that Jack de la Maddalena KO was crazy. Jack is so fucking good and he's so tough. He's so tough. And you watch Carlos just tee off on him.

He really did look like target practice for him against such a high level.

He was having fun.

I know, that's the— ain't that the worst part, dude?

Morales is a savage too still.

I know, but that fight— but save that fight. Morales versus Prates, save that fight. Yeah, wait till it's ready.

Not yet.

It's like, don't pull the brisket out of the smoker just yet.

I was telling Matt I saw some grappling, like, footage of Morales, and I mean, he looked pretty fucking good.

Well, he has a wrestling background, and if there's a way he's gonna get Prates, it's gonna probably be a combination of those things, because Prates just wants to stand.

Yeah, of course.

And he's built like a bit— like, if you had an engineer, like a long-range fighter.

He's built like a mosquito. His torso is just bigger than his own legs and arms.

He's so accurate.

He had his best round the 5th round versus Ian Machado O'Garry.

Yeah, he came back like a bat out of hell and really had him hurt bad.

He might get outpointed, but he's, he's calm in bad positions and he's always fucking dangerous. That was the last— are you thinking maybe he's a chain smoker or something? That he's— or he smokes cigarettes? Yeah, the 5th round, man, he had, he had Ian in trouble.

He's good, dude, and he's really hit so fucking hard.

Hard.

When he KO'd Leon, I was like, I know Leon's good, he's a good striker. To KO Leon like that clean was crazy.

They got a crazy rumor, was it the Fight Nerds they call themselves? And Hoofdee was there.

Yeah, yeah, he trains with them and he trains with other people as well. Like, Pratesh moves around, um, but he, you know, he had a giant Muay Thai record rather.

Oh no shit.

Yeah, like how many Muay Thai fights did Carlos Prates have? Like world-class. Like I've watched a bunch of his just pure Muay Thai fights and the comfort level that he has in there exchanging and moving and knowing where he's supposed to be and not to be, that like sensitivity that he has to like striking exchanges because world-class Muay Thai is such an advantage.

Yeah, I would favor him if he fought Ian Garry again.

Perhaps. Yeah, yeah, he knows he has to like try to get it on him. Yeah, can't point fight him.

Do you think that Islam's gonna just have his way, or do you think Ian Gary has a shot there?

He definitely has a shot.

I mean, Ian, he's—

so he had 29 Muay Thai wins, 5 losses, so 34 Muay Thai fights, and like high-level, man. You watch him fight and you're like, okay, this guy, he can fuck up. And he knows where to be, where not to be, and he knows how to like piece people up, man. It's like when you have that high level— we've seen it so many times with these guys like world champ, like Alex. See these world champion kickboxers, they enter into MMA, like nobody has a chance standing with them. It's like it's too scary.

Yeah.

And that's what you're seeing with Carlos. It's like, fuck, man, what he did to JDM, I was like, holy shit.

I mean, he was having fun. He was just playing.

I was like, What? Beating the shit out of the former world champion, having a good time, just smashing them. Had him screaming from calf kicks. Yeah, yeah. Where's he? He went to his corner and they're like, no, ah, no fucking scream. They're telling him to not scream.

Yeah.

Oh, you didn't just get kicked in the same spot 6 times.

Fuck you.

You know how tough that dude is? His nose is on the left side of his face and you're saying that guy?

Puffing up, right?

That's a fact.

That was one of those— I was— had him when he was getting him up against the cage, I was fucking flinching. I'm like, here it— it's coming, because you just, you know it's coming, but you just don't know where it's coming from.

And those knees to the body are so nasty. Prates is so nasty. He's so good, man. And he's getting better too.

And he—

and now he's starting to do this shit. Yeah, yeah, he's feeling it. He feels like he's the best guy.

Yeah, I feel like he's the scariest guy in that division.

I I think so. He's the scariest, but it doesn't mean he's gonna be the best, right? The bottom line about Islam is no one's able to get away from him. He gets a hold of you— he's very good standing up now— and he gets a hold of you, you're fucked. He has a different kind of wrestling, different kind of grappling.

Well, if Ian can't keep him off of him, I don't see how he beats him on the ground.

His submissions are fucking insane too. He's just got a vice grip, man. I know everybody that he rolls with, or everybody that he fights rather, they all say, I've never been grabbed like that. Never been— never felt anybody that strong.

Who's that? Islam.

Islam, yeah. I don't know if it's the same at 70, but he's so big, I can't imagine it's not. It's not like he's a little 70.

Yeah, like, cuz he's, he's tall and he's— yeah, he's got a good frame on him.

I think he's going to be better at 70 because he's not going to be depleted. Cuz when I would stand next to him in the octagon when he was the 55-pound champion, I'd be like, how? How do you weigh 55? That doesn't even make any sense. You're £190 right now, guaranteed. If I put you on a scale, you weigh 190. I think it's so big.

I think Ian's gonna make it competitive early, you know, like, because he's got good footwork, he moves side to side really good, he's long. But if he gets taken down twice and then it becomes a habit of him getting taken down, he won't get back up.

He won't.

If—

but the thing is, if Ian Garry can get off sharp combinations early, he could stun him. Yeah, because Ian can move, he's fast as fuck. Ass as fuck, and he's super accurate. And the way he throws his strikes is like real clean. Yeah, no fat in his move. Everything's like, like, he's—

he doesn't— very responsible.

Yeah, he's not like a physically overpowering guy. It's technique. His technique is sharp.

Yeah. Did you see his interaction that time with Khamzat?

Yeah.

What are your thoughts on that?

There was a little too much of a pat on the back.

That's what the fuck I'm talking about. Khamzat wasn't wrong, and I like Ian. I don't them.

But there's like a pat on the back where they're kind of halfway hitting you.

Yeah, he went up to him like, oh, you think he's trying to check him? What do you know? You got— oh, you got something coming up? Oh, you feel strong?

And there's a weird thing, like, you hit me a little too hard on the back. Yeah, you know, there's one— there's a hug and then there's a slap slap. Yeah, yeah, where like there's a slap slap that's like a little aggressive, like some male dominance. Yeah, yeah, but you don't like me.

What are you trying to do?

You don't like me? Are you Are you hitting me? You feel like— it feels like you're hitting me a little bit. Yeah, it's like if you were— if you hit a woman in the face like that, you'd go to jail, right? You're hitting me in the back, but if you like, hey, where's my fucking spaghetti? And you double slap her.

I think right now I don't even like— from so many right hands, if you see this little— oh Jesus, see this thing right here that's bumping out?

Yeah, it's broken.

I don't like— yeah, I fucked it up on Shoney's head. But I don't like when guys try to— when they first meet somebody's hand and they try squeezed, dude, because I want to smack him right there. Yeah, because it's— I'm like, because I feel pain with that shit.

Another one.

What are we looking at? No, he's talking about the Hamza.

No, no, no, that's Shavkat. That's Shavkat. How dare you? I fell down the wrong— yeah, wrong. I'm like, what are we looking at? No, it was, uh, Jamie wasn't at a fight. It was like his backstage. Yeah, but I felt— I honestly actually felt bad for Khamzat trying to make 185. From all that I heard before the Strickland fight, like, he almost died to make 185. Yeah, when he made 185 when he fought Strickland.

Really?

Yeah, he was apparently thinking that he was gonna go up to light heavyweight. Oh, and they were even talking about him fighting Yuri. Okay, so he was preparing like he was going up to light heavyweight. And if you watch him, he's another guy who's got a great YouTube channel. He details all his training training. He was hanging out with that Calavita guy doing a lot of cardio and strength. Here it is. Like, he gave him a thing before that though. I think it was like, good job tonight, good job. And I think he slapped him on the back before that. There was— or maybe it was after. I don't know what it was, but it was enough. So like, he's fine now. Like, they seem cool. Oh no, no. Oh, so they're talking a little shit right here. He gets pissed and pushes him. He's a champion, don't worry. So yeah, yeah, well, you know, Hamza doesn't—

well, I mean, he did give him a little, that little squeeze on the shoulder, bro. Yeah, that was not necessary.

Chechnya is not America, right? Okay, dudes that come from Chechnya, that is a war-torn country, and those motherfuckers don't play. The guy who runs it, the guy who runs it is, uh, it's Hamza's homie.

Yep.

Which is like Okay, so much so he lets him tap him out. Yeah, it's ridiculous, but that's how it goes, you know. You got to do what you got to do. But I like the fight. I think Ian has a real chance.

I do too. I think early he does, but if he gets—

if he gets taken down repeatedly, uh, if he gets taken down, he might just get smushed. He might just get choked and smushed and choked. I don't know.

I mean, struggled with Shavkat on the ground.

He did, but again, that's a couple of years ago. It's not like he's not getting better. I mean, that dude, yeah, he's smart.

Like, he knows how to— he knows how to get himself prepared.

I think he's got a— his edge is on the, you know, on the feet, obviously. So I think that's where he— if he's gonna win, that's where he will.

I don't know why people don't like him. I love him. He also is awesome.

He also almost finished Shavkat with a rear naked choke, if I remember correctly. Does that really? He did. He did have Shavkat on his back. Yeah, he had his back.

Oh, I forgot about that.

I forgot about that. I mean, he— that was the closest anybody came to finishing.

He also fucked up Shavkat's Shavkat's knee. Yeah, he hit him with that oblique kick to the knee, and that's the reason why Shavkat had to get surgery. Really? And he's had 2 surgeries since. Yeah, like Ian even made a post about it. Yeah, damn, that's so rude. So rude. This is why you had to get surgery. He's like, I think he had made a post. I saw a post that maybe somebody attributed to Ian, but it was, it was his work. I mean, look, it's a legal technique and he's really good at it, and the way he throws it, that oblique way sideways to the knee, that's fucking devastating.

And he's long enough to do—

he just kind of—

yeah, yeah, for sure.

Jon Jones style. But he's like, with his— the way he could move in with combinations, it's very hard to deal with. But even he had to fucking grab MVPs.

Like, fuck, I know, right? Yeah, even him. Yeah, even him.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, where you can't hit them. Yeah, you're like, what am I doing here?

Well, see, but that's why I like Ian. Like, in terms— like, think about that. Like, he's able to solve them problems. Like, he's— his IQ is so why he's beating guys like MVP and like the guys that other people— and Carlos Prates, guys that other people can't beat.

Very true, very true. Look at that, there it is right there. That's it right there, man. Can you back it up again so we hit it right there? Oh my God, dude.

Damn, that's a fucked up—

look how bad that is.

For anything, I used to do that on the wooden dummy. That's a Wing Chun kick. See, there you go. Don't you Wing Chun? That's a stomp kick. Yeah, it is a stomp kick.

It's real, it's real. Wing Wing Chun works.

Proof.

Oh, Gary's no joke, man. He's fucking dangerous. And that style of being that tall is so hard to deal with. Matt, my short brother, you know what I'm talking about.

Dude, let me tell you something, especially little trolls like us. They'd always try to latch onto my head.

Yeah, it's just so hard to even spar with tall guys because they can hit you from 6 inches further away than you can hit them. That's a lot of space.

Yeah, you got to come in behind behind that double, triple jab.

I love the fact that you, you can do anything and you should be able to kick to the knees. I hate the fact that it blew his knee out. We really haven't seen him the same since. We— I mean, he's been— right, 2 surgeries. I think he had 1 fight after that, right? Did he have 1 more fight? He's had the Gary fight.

He's had a— what, didn't he have a bad car accident or something like that?

Did you?

Yeah, uh, Shavkat. Yeah, I So I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, or maybe it was just his family.

Maybe, I don't know. I hope he's okay. I just missed the guy in the octagon. He's fucking good, man. Shavkat was good. It's just like one technique can change your whole life.

I thought he was coming back like trying to rehab from whatever, from the accident. Like, oh, so yeah, I mean, look, he obviously—

well, first it hurt his leg for sure, for sure. First he had ACL surgery before that. So he might have—

maybe that's, maybe that's what happened. Maybe he redid it.

Fuck, dude, that sucks. He's so good. But then again, it's like this fucking sport waits for no one. These dudes are coming up, coming up. You know what I'm bummed that got canceled this weekend is Ethan Ewing.

Oh yeah, that was good.

He's so good. Yeah, that was gonna be a good— that kid was fighting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he came onto the scene and it was a short notice fight. Well, maker at Madison Square Garden. Yeah. And Wellmaker— and while he's having a hard— Wellmaker's having a hard time lately. He lost his last one too, and he's a better fighter than that. So he's a young kid, so we'll see the best from him yet.

But well, he came out so spectacular, Wellmaker did. He looks so good in his debut, and he looks like he's, you know, in on the contender series. He looks like he's, he's really good. But fucking Ethan, you know, he's really good.

He is real good.

And he's another guy like we're talking about out, like these— this new breed of guys like the Sanhagens. Yeah, it's constantly switching stances, constantly giving you different angles and directions. It's like very hard to pattern them.

He's— is he on the Conor card too, right?

He was on—

oh yeah, Sanhagen is fighting Bautista.

Yeah, um, but he was, uh, Ethan was on the card and I think they pulled him off.

Yeah, he was, uh, the dude he's fighting was undefeated. Um, what's— there it is, Basarat. Yeah.

Yeah, fuck. And Basharat's good. Yeah, that's a really good—

he's tall, rangy. He like— that would have been interesting.

Yeah, the rest of the card, can we see?

He's injured, he'll be back. But I like the fact that he's not fighting injured too, because this is a pretty significant injury. And so when these guys, they say fuck it, I'll just do it, and then you have one loss, and then that loss leads you— you know, your career can go down a weird road. Pretty good, it's a very good card. Benoit Saint-Denis and Paddy Pimblett, right? That's right. And then Connor Macaulay is on this one too, right? Yeah, there was— it was going around that he was gonna fight Josh Hoket. I was like, please don't make that be true.

Yeah, but he's a -2,500.

Robert Whittaker and Nikita Krylov is good too, man. Yeah, that Robert is going from 170 to 85 to now light heavyweight. Isn't that crazy? And he's not that—

he's not that big.

Not that big.

No, he's—

is he like 6'1"? Even no, no. How tall is Robert? 6 feet tall. Yeah, 6. So he's, I mean, he's a thick fella. Yeah, definitely got to be walking around at like 230 or something like that. But these guys are so tall and so rangy, and that fucking Nikita Krylov guy can kick.

He's a legit 205. Yeah, he's—

Cody still was lighting up Erie in that fight before he got caught, remember?

Remember? Mm-hmm.

Yeah, he was lighting Yuri up for sure.

Yeah, Cody, I don't— I think it's time to—

Cody Garbrandt.

Adrian Yáñez, man, he went through a bad streak too, but that dude's very skillful, very good boxer.

Yeah, he looked good in his last one.

What's Cody doing too? What is this thing on his eye? Is he angry that he's good-looking?

Yáñez is— yeah, he's got to doctor it up. The kids these days, they like faces out 2s. He's at— Janja is 450, um, favorite.

So I'm saying like minus 450. Cody's chin, man, he's just been too many times, too many times.

Well, it's an age thing too. I mean, Cody's not actually that old. I think he's only like 33. How old is Cody Garbrandt?

33? No, he's got to be older than that.

I don't think he's old. No, I don't think he's old. I think he started his career at 34.

Oh my God.

Yeah, see, I think he started his career really young, dude.

Fucking a guy, 5 now.

Oh, July 7th, next week.

Oh, so next week Max started, he was what, 19? This guy's still great.

Yeah, well, you know, when I interviewed them for the UFC at the White House, which is the most ridiculous thing in the world, I'm sitting there in this ball, this like beautiful adorned room with like gold on the ceiling and shit like that, and on a chair with a camera in front of me. And then there's a monitor here that's Conor, there's a monitor there that's Max, and they're arguing with each each other.

You won't lay a glove on me.

It was, it was crazy to see the two of them going back and forth. It's fun seeing Conor come back, man. I know, he's—

I mean, he is the world's greatest.

He cracked me up, man. He was cracking me up.

I can't wait till fight week.

It's gonna be amazing. Yeah, look, I hope he looks great. I hope it's a good fight. But you know, it's a tall order to take on Max Holloway after he was just the BMF champion. He beat Dustin Yeah, he lost to Ilia, but like, you look at the wins that that guy's had in his career and how he's looked since their first fight. This is a totally different human being. Yeah, this is a world champion, like one of the all-time featherweight greats.

I think if Conor don't knock him out early, he's in for a long night.

Yeah, Max can fight with no weight cut, no weight cut. I could have said like, but never get tired.

People are saying like, oh yeah, but what about moving up? Well, I'm like, that's great for him. He don't have to cut no weight.

For him, it's great for both of them. Listen, this is the future. Future. I would hope, I would hope guys would abandon weight cutting. I really do. And I think the UFC should accommodate it by letting go of these ridiculous weight limits. Let's just find out what guys weigh. Yeah, let's find out what guys weigh and like have them fight.

Like, does ONE still do that? I mean, that was the way to go. Like, the beginning of the year, and then like, this is where you're gonna fight.

If I would run things like ONE, because they also allow steroids cards, allegedly. I might have just made that up. I don't want to get slandered. I don't want to get sued. I don't think they— well, did they have— they— I think they have drug tests at ONE. I think it's like a multiple choice.

Multiple choice.

I want guys to take testosterone. I want them to take peptides. I want them to take everything they have. I want to give them a hyperbaric chamber. Like, let's go, boys.

And then just release them.

Yeah, release the hounds. I want the best fighting that's humanly available.

Fucking Pride days.

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. I want the Enhanced Games MMA bouts.

Yeah, but, uh, with Conor and Max, one guy, even in his prime, Conor's always showed signs, shown signs that, you know, his endurance was never the best.

He's a sprinter.

And Max is, is, man, he's the guy in the last round, 30, he's winning a fight, 30 seconds. Yeah, he's, he's fresh. His 5th round Second round is as good as his first.

Max's discipline is beyond compare. Like, that motherfucker trains hard. You might train just as hard, but there ain't harder. I think there ain't harder.

The craziest one was when he put it on Calvin Cater and he was just talking shit.

Yeah, yeah, we were there.

I'm the best boxer in the UFC.

It was so crazy.

I was watching that cage side and I see him looking away, talking hitting him was just something, bro.

How about Brian Ortega when he was fighting him, showing him how to keep his hands up? Oh yeah, Jesus. He grabs him, grabs his hand and puts it by his head. No, do like this, you can block it, and then pops him with a jab again, bro. Max Holloway's a bad motherfucker, dude.

100%.

You know, I think it's gonna be interesting to see. Look, Conor in his prime was elite. Conor Eddie Alvarez, if it's that Conor right now fighting Max, I'd be like, holy shit.

Yeah, that's a— that's different. That's different.

But can he regain that form, right? We don't know. I mean, he's a special dude. Look at this, just pop, talking shit to him.

You met Dana? Was Dana was losing his mind over there.

Yeah, there's also COVID, so you could kind of hear him, right? Yeah, 100%, because this is not— oh, look at that, look at that right hand!

He wasn't even looking at it, it was slipping shit.

I'm the best boxer in the UFC. Look at this, bro. He said such a bad motherfucker, man. And if he starts talking to Conor like that in the middle of the fight and teeing off on him, if Conor gets tired, it could get rough.

Look at his last fight with Dustin.

Yeah, the difference is Conor— I don't give a fuck if he's 39, I don't care how old he is, that dude's got the touch. Yeah, he's got the touch of death, and he's very accurate, and he's accurate, and he's fast as fuck. And when he's sprinting, when he's sprinting, he moves quicker anybody. Yeah, it's like you can't do that for 5 rounds, but if he does it and cracks you, you're in— you're on fucksville. Look what he did to Aldo. Who the fuck's ever done that to Aldo? That's the touch.

Do you think there's any chance that Conor wrestles him? I think Conor might try to wrestle him a little bit.

That's what Nate said.

Oh, because he wanted to turn it into a wrestling fight.

Maybe, maybe looking at that and then maybe seeing that— that's—

I don't see that. I think Max has got to put it on him a little bit and then he'll shoot because he's not in it for war.

That's gonna get him even more tired.

He did in his first fight. He wrestled.

We say he's not in it for war, but he can surprise us, man. Like, you know, the humiliation of losing that second fight to Dustin with a broken leg and sitting there and having to go out for all the— who knows how he responded to that. Obviously he did a lot of partying. We don't know what kind of training, you know. And if he really is still the Conor McGregor that had something to prove when he entered into the UFC, and he can get himself into that mindset and get through a camp with that mindset mindset, who knows, man. I mean, he definitely looked focused as fuck when I was talking to him in the interview. It doesn't really mean anything until you actually see him move around. Yeah, but if he really prepared himself correctly, he wants to make a stand and show that he could still do it. This might get wild.

But if that's the strategy, fuck, man. If he's worried about his endurance already, or if that's a question, if that's the strategy, it's not like he's gonna take him down and just smoke him. Max has got— he has a ground game.

Max has survived with Charles Oliveira.

Yeah, right. I would like to talk to Kavanaugh and see what was the plan. Like, how did— what did you guys do? How long was the camp? Like, how did it start? What was he doing before the camp?

Yeah, so I had talked to Laura Sanko, who interviewed Kavanaugh. Okay. And she said that he wouldn't say it, but he kind of alluded to that wrestling might be a part of game plan.

Well, that might be a ruse. Yeah, yeah, that might be to lure— because the way that Charles handled Max in the last fight was crazy. But also, that's Charles.

That's what I'm thinking.

I'm just getting ready. Nobody else took Max down like that.

Nobody else is a fucking monster.

Charles is Charles.

He's so good on the ground, man.

Max had to survive some shit that other people would have tapped.

And a lot of people— here's what's crazy: Islam smushed him. I know, right, right. There's crazy levels to this sport. Islam smushed him. I know, he got him, made him look bad. He was tapping like immediately. He was like, yeah, yeah, I ain't getting out of this. Yeah, I'm going night-night. That's how good he is. I mean, his, his squeeze when he got Drew Dober in half guard. Oh, how do you get the arm triangle from half guard? It's like, just, there ain't no half guard here.

Yeah, this is just smush. Yeah, pressure. Just pressure is fucking phenomenal.

Incredible squeeze. Like, he just cuts off the blood. Like, you— there's nothing you could do about it. That forearm grip d'arce that he uses, do you fuck with that?

I don't mess with that, but I know how powerful it is.

Do you fuck with it, Matt?

No, that was never my thing. Yeah, anacondas and the d'arces, because we're short-armed little guys.

What the fuck is the problem with me with these things? You know, these are great for some things, but not for d'arces.

Y'all, because like all you have to do is grip here.

Yeah, I never tried it though, but I did used to like the Japanese necktie for the same reason, because the Japanese necktie, when you're funneling under for— when you go for that underhook on the left arm and you get it behind the head, you cinch down like this. And then instead of trying to go all the way through and cinch it up as a D'Arce, you take it from this position with this lever on the back of the neck and you tuck the neck into your chest.

Okay.

And then you grab a leg, you grab a leg and you do this. Yeah, like lean on this shoulder. So you, once you cinch it up, as soon as you get this forearm behind the neck, the first thing to do is you put your left shoulder to the mat. So your left shoulder, you drop down the mat, and usually they think they're gonna spin out of it, but you're trapping the head.

Yeah, put your shoulder to the floor, right?

There's a video of me, see if we could— there's a video of me showing it to TJ Dillashaw. We're at the Onnit headquarters and I'm showing him how to do it. It's great for short arm.

Wait, you're on his back, you're saying?

No, you're on the dark position, right? So he's got the underhook, you funnel under, you get it behind the head. Once you get it behind the head, you use this lever, you pin that down on the neck, and the first thing I want to do is put my left shoulder over on the top. So here— oh, here it is. So here it is. So once you get to this position and you clamp, I want to put my shoulder down, and then his head is trapped.

Yeah. Oh, is that a neck crank?

100%. It's horrible.

You hipping in?

Yes. And you usually grab a hold of a leg.

They can just step over, it's right there.

Jamie, back it up to where I'm showing it to him and then I talk through it. Back it up a little bit. Yeah, there it is. Give me some volume. Okay, try this though. The difference between what you're doing and what I'm doing is I'm going on my left shoulder. Yeah, sorry, sorry. Once you got this, yeah, if I hook this leg, I'm going on my left shoulder. Yeah, so I'm all the way sideways. Okay, yeah, yeah.

So there's a tremendous— so you're hooking the leg even before you fall down too?

Immediately, because you want to be able get it if you fall down. Exactly. So as soon as I cinch my hands together, I'm hooking a leg. Yeah, I want to tie him up. Yeah, I want to tie him up and I want to get him in a position where he's going to roll out of it like you would with the D'Arce. Right, you can't roll.

You can't now.

You already got the leg. Exactly. Because I also— because I'm trapping your head in my chest. So you're, you're just worried about me getting this, but I'm not even trying to get that. Yeah, I'm just getting this. Give some volume right here.

Yeah, dude, that's a Would you get it?

Right, right, right, for sure. See, people like when they put their legs in there. That's what he was just saying. That's why it's like, it's really good.

That cranks that neck.

That Danny Castillo?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You very rarely see this in the UFC, and it's available too because also the gloves, they get in the way of certain chokes. Like definitely rear naked chokes. It's so hard to get the hand in the proper position with the back of the hand on the head.

Does it matter which leg you step over? Like, he stepped over the first, you stepped over the far leg.

The far leg's better, you get better control, but it doesn't matter as long as you could tie him up and trap his head inside your chest. So once the head's in the chest, you're in a terrible position to defend because it puts your head at this nasty angle. Like, the moment your head gets to that angle— so TJ's showing like one of the ways that he does it. He's doing—

I say his grip is different from yours.

He tries different.

He's got hands—

he's trying a different grip.

Yeah.

Um, I like my grip better. Well, it's not my grip, it's Eddie Bravo's grip, but I like the grip better because you got the lever. So the thing is about having it go through this lever, when you get this forearm on the back of the neck, that's a lot of power. Yeah, there's a lot of power that way. So if you see how I'm doing, I'm doing it like a little bit different.

Yours too, you, you're all on his, on his head and neck. TJ is cradling him.

So he did it that way now, like in that, that time. Now he's doing it the right way. That's, that's nasty. And then once it gets in the chest, yep, trap the leg. He could trap either leg. It's the whole thing is just trapping the head. You just want to make sure you have contact with his body so his left legs, or his right, his legs rather, can't spin out. You don't want him spinning out because then his head's gonna get free. It's nasty, but it's just, I don't see it in MMA, and I don't know why, because it's available when guys are trying to get the D'Arce and they can't get it. Like, there's a lot of times the legs are tangled up and it's, it's horrible because you have this lever. You remember when Khabib tapped Conor and everybody's like, oh, you didn't even— that wasn't even in the choke. He was doing that same shit, but he was doing it across the neck on the back. Horrible. It's gonna break your neck, man. And that's what that feels like, but that's even worse because it's sideways and you got your body on it.

Yeah, but the worst that I've never seen in the UFC is the execution executioner. I don't think I've ever seen anybody get that rear— that, you know, you're in the back mount and you reach over, you go guillotine.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Like that the other day. Um, well, that was the, uh, the, the Scottish, uh, oh, Scottish twister.

The Scottish twister.

That's different.

Yeah, it feels Scottish twister is a little different. It's still nasty as fuck. That's the leaning back, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's horrible on your neck.

Attacks the spine and the fuck.

Oh, they're horrible.

But I think my man couldn't tap fast enough.

Yeah, the Executioner's the worst. Yeah, because you've got rear naked hooks and you've got the head back this way. Oh man, you're going like that. That's nuts. That's nuts.

Yeah.

Now that's a catch wrestling thing, right?

Oh, that I don't know, man. That sort of started popping up at 10th Planet at least like in the 2000s, like 2003 or 2004. So Epstein likes to call it the execute but he wasn't the only guy doing it. Like, other guys had figured it out. So you're in north-south, which a lot of guys, you know, that was back in the north. God, yeah, this is it right here, bro. This is— holy hell. When you're in rear naked choke position but you have the arm wrapped like that, the amount of pressure on the spine is just crazy. It's—

you could paralyze somebody.

100%.

Shout out to Long Island Knucklehead. They'll be fucking— everybody sign a waiver on that.

But look at how nasty this is. Like, it's such a bad position to try to defend. You have no strength to defend it.

Yeah, that's just— yeah, that's a wrap.

Hell, that's a wrap. Hell. And I don't see it in the UFC, and I don't understand why. I think it's available. I think some guys could get this. I mean, not always, but there's a lot of times you're trying to fight the rear naked choke, or that you're trying to get the rear naked choke, but the guy's defending. If you switch to something like this, if you could find a way to get into a position like this, you're not gonna defend that, man.

Well, the truth is that a lot of guys in the UFC or MMA in general don't really practice jiu-jitsu from that standpoint, right? They do anti-jiu-jitsu because they think that their chances of winning a fight on their feet are better, right? So their idea is just like, defend the takedown, get back to my feet. Yeah. Or just use basic jiu-jitsu. So like, stuff like this that's available to them, they don't know it, or they don't practice it enough for it to be instinctive for them to do it. The fact that they're just trying to get up to their feet's the first problem, right? Yeah, that's it. Yeah, because look at Gilbert Burns versus Damian Maia. Right, matches jiu-jitsu a little bit, then he finds the opening. If he doesn't match jiu-jitsu, he'll use that, but then he has to move a certain way, gives enough space to get to his feet.

God, I gotta remember this guy's name. The guy who's the Bellator champion is from Ukraine, he's fighting in the UFC.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yurislav Amasov.

Oh, I knew that was the name, but I didn't want to fuck it up, and I was panicking.

Yeah, it's not easy to—

yeah, you know when I really panic? Weigh-in days. Oh, you look at my face, I have—

are you really in a hot panic? I'll be feeling for you sometimes, stuff like that. He's gonna forget the name. Do you— you don't bring the paper up?

I do, I have to.

I have—

not only that, I have to listen to these fucking names over and over and over again.

Fucking— some of that shit's coming.

And you know, what, and Anik gonna be mad at you if you mess it up.

He's so good at it.

Yeah, I don't know how you—

he should be doing it. I should just give the microphone in. Yeah, he'll introduce the guy. I'll just interview people. Yeah, he's the best at naming the names.

I do that all on Filtered. I go, hey Jimmy, who do we have next? It's a fucking crazy name. I just get the first name down.

Jurislav is good.

Yeah, he's good.

He's good. His ground game is so sweet. Did you see him fight?

Which show?

You see, y'all pull up his last fight.

Yeah, he beat up—

yeah, yeah, it's— but back it up a little bit so you can see the takedown. Watch how he does this. Look at how beautiful this is, bro.

All in there.

I mean, here comes right into arm triangle. Look at this.

Wow, that's a bro.

And then he goes knee to the belly too, just crushing him.

Did you see his setup for, uh, uh, Neil Magny? Yeah.

Oh man, he's so smooth, man. He's smooth.

He's smooth.

He's smooth. He put it on Neil Yeah, yeah. And then he breakdances.

Gotta have something.

Oh, actually, look at that, man. Little windmill.

Yeah, that guy can move. And that guy's really good. He's dangerous.

Old Sean Alvarez, he would be doing the windmill.

He has 1 KO loss. That was Jason Jackson.

Yeah, Jason Jackson knocked him out. He just put it on him. Jason Jackson just, yeah, just murdered him. Just like ran across the beat him up.

Yeah, I was talking to Big John and Josh Thompson on the podcast. They brought him up like that. He's like the most unheralded, the most underappreciated of the guys that are out there.

Jason Jackson. Yeah, yeah.

So that's a problem when you're not in the UFC. That is.

And if the UFC picks him up, I mean, it's gonna be kind of late.

He had to dig through the rubble of his house to get it.

Holy shit.

Geez, that's nuts, man.

That's crazy.

That's nuts.

Puts shit in perspective real fast.

Holy shit, dude. How bad did he want that belt? For real, right? I mean, this dude went back to a war zone to get his belt. A bellator belt.

Christ, imagine if it was a UFC belt.

I'd have left that motherfucking area.

That's so crazy. That fucking dude's good, man. There's so many good guys now, it's crazy. It's just a— it's a wild time for the sport, man.

Yeah, you know You know, I like Big John. You know one thing I don't like that he does? Oh, it always irks me. Big John McCarthy. I like— he— when I won the title, he was my guy. But, uh, I hate this, man. As you fucking savages know, when you're in there, you're in a certain mindset, right? You got a guy looking to do bodily harm to you, you're looking to fucking take him out anyway possible. If there's a foul or something, now you're in this mindset. So now you got this big fucking guy, hey, uh, what do you see? You see ugly? Making jokes. Oh yeah, oh yeah, okay, let me go back to this guy trying to kill me. Big— good one, Big John! Get the fuck out! Really? You don't like him making jokes? About this? How about you go to the mothership, you bring back the Tony? How about you take a— put your name in the hat, you take the name out, and maybe you could use that on Kill Tony? I don't like that shit. Hey, fuck that. Every time he does it— oh my God, there's something in me that makes me just be like, dude, is it about you?

What the fuck's the matter with you? A good one, Big John. Oh, and you see a guy doing. Sometimes you see the guys go, oh yeah, all right, dude, fuck that. It's the same as— it's the same as the guy looking to give you a high five out there. Fuck that too. Well, that's boring. So I mean, I don't know, man, it always irked me and it just stuck out when you— his name came up. And I— he's not a bad guy, he's a great guy, I love him. But how about this? Now that you're back reffing, make a note of that.

Maybe put your name in Yeah, I could imagine that would fuck with your head, right? It'd be like, man, make me listen to that joke. Goddamn, fuck, I just got poked in here fucking working.

What are you, you see ugly, bro?

I think they're getting a little bit better about warning people for fouls, but not better about taking points. They did for a little while. Yeah, it was hot and they were like, yeah, yeah, one point, and everybody's like, yes, the crowd cheered. That's how it's got to be, folks. That's the new rule. The new rule should should be. Eye poke, 1 point. Don't poke eyes. You do this shit and you jab someone in the eyes, 1 point.

1 point. Yeah, no doubt. 1 point.

Right away you know not to do it. Sometimes it happens. Unfortunately, if it happens, you get a point taken away. Don't let it happen. And you go back to your corner, go, make sure you don't do that again. Nut shot, 1 point. Unintentional nut shot, it's a warning. Like, because you could kick while I'm kicking, right? You weren't trying to hit me in the nuts, right? We just collided legs. That happens all the time.

The rough one is the call. The call is the, uh, the back of the head when you're trying to put a guy away because he's moving his head.

It's hard.

That's hard. And that spot is a lot smaller than what most people think because we think— because we, we think about it, they just say the back of the head, so you're assuming that it's like anything back there.

It's just a mohawk.

It's like a little small piece.

Isn't that crazy though? Yeah, you kind of should be able to hit hit the back of the head.

If everybody had the O'Day Osbourne haircut, it'd be okay. Just don't get him in his hair, bro.

Do you remember when Renzo fought, uh, what was his name, Rikers?

Ben Rikers?

Yeah, Spikers. And it showed if you're allowed to elbow the back of the head, the rear mount, like when he's— oh yeah, bro. And when Henzo Henzo was dropping bombs on him and then stepped on his neck, put him to sleep with his jacket, with his gi tie.

I remember that, bro.

The beating he gave him before he choked him to sleep, bro. The beating in the back of his head.

Stop calling my fucking room all night long.

The guy was being a prick before the fight.

He was a piece of shit, yeah.

He did what?

What did he do?

Oh yeah, yeah, he was calling his fucking room trying to wake him up, like had his people harassing Henzo. He was a dick.

Henzo went to greet him and he said, 'Oh, you have not— you have eyes like my, my girlfriend, but they're prettier,' or some shit. So right away, Hensel's one of those guys that he can go from a smile to a fucking boha in 10 seconds. And about the fuck—

I mean, 0 to 100 real quick.

Well, and you know, only if you're a dick. Oh yeah, you're not a dick, he's the nicest guy in the world. Come on, that's just— that position just shows you if you're allowed to do that. Yeah, this is before— but show before that, watch what he does 4. It's once— here it is. Once he gets them back mount, watch this. Oh man, I mean, dude, that's a wrap. You can only take— imagine if that was in MMA. Why?

Now here's the thing, that dummy has a gi on.

Is that inherently dangerous? Is it that much more dangerous?

I mean, what we're doing is already dangerous, right?

Yeah. And it also is very effective. So are we removing a very effective technique that would end fights? And if So are we doing it to protect the fighter? Because if we are, why are we allowing a lot of other stuff? Why are we allowing flying knees?

Right.

Why are we allowing sidekicks to the knee? Why are we allowing wheel kicks to the head, heels to the head?

Smack him in the face again.

Yeah, hey, nice fight. I mean, there's a certain amount of things that we already allow that are so bad for for you. It's like, why don't you allow a shot to the back of the head? I need it explained to me like I'm a child. Like, why is it okay to slam your elbow full blast into someone's temple?

Yeah, but not this spot.

You could drive your elbow down into their eye socket, that's okay, but the back of the head is bad. But also, the back of the head's fine if you knock someone out from the back of the head and you didn't mean to, like a head kick. Like, how many head kicks wrap around the back of the head? Right, Wonderboy, and it's like his UFC debut. He goes over the shoulder, whap, back of the head, out cold. Yeah, that shit always works. The back of the head round kicks, that's a lot of times where they land.

This guy's getting hit in the back of the head, it is a little different.

Yeah, how many times are like, like Ernesto Hoost knocked dudes out with back of the head head kicks in kickboxing?

A lot. All the time, for sure.

I think that's how he knocked out Maurice Smith. I think he snuck it around over the shoulder and hit him in the back of the head.

Hmm.

I mean, I mean, anatomy's gonna dictate that, but that's what you're supposed to do, right? So that's legal. No one says that's an illegal blow.

My overhands, that's where they hit a lot. Fuck them. Yeah, I mean, I'm facing you, what do you want me to do?

This is what is part of the sport, right? No, if that's legal and you get a KO win, if you head kick someone, you land them in the back of the head. That, it's always happened. Yeah, that's happened 100 times.

I don't know, I mean, it's weird, right? It is. I mean, it's weird because, I mean, then we— now we're playing with all these different rules and people don't like them, and it's just like— but I mean, you got to draw a line somewhere, I suppose.

But see if you can find Ernesto Hoost, uh, KO's Maury Smith.

Less rules shows who's the better fighter at the end of the day.

But those— there's some rules that I'm like, okay, but now you're getting an unrealistic understanding of a position. Like when someone's in a turtle and you can't knee to the head.

Yeah, to me that one should be eliminated right away. You should be able to knee a guy in the head.

Yeah, watch this. Look at that shit. There it is, right at the back of that.

Yep.

Watch that again. Can you— is it in slow motion? Is that what it is? Watch, watch how slick this This is Ernesto Hoost.

Look how close he is too. Oh man, see how close he was?

Crazy. It was like Billy Jack.

Look at that, bro.

Yep.

And it's nice, you know, so if that happened in the UFC, everybody would cheer. Yeah, you couldn't say, hey, that's an illegal blow, right?

Even though technically that's the spot where they can constitute a legal blow.

Yeah, that's illegal. Yeah, that's illegal. And wheel kicks happen like that all the time.

All the time.

Because it's coming from that angle, from whipping around. Guy tries to duck under, hits him right in the back of the head, and no one complains. Yeah, it's weird. No one— the referee never says stop, no striking the back of the head. Never happens. Yeah, ever.

It's only when they're like turned around and they're throwing arm punches.

Yeah, which is the least—

which is less powerful than a full kick to the head.

But the reality is, if you were in that position and the guy could throw elbows to the back of the head, that would be a wrap. In that same position where you're on a guy's back and you're doing this kind of shit, instead if you're just back of the head, boom, boom, like Kenzo just did, right?

Hey man, what about headbutts, right? Headbutts, not even, even standing up, right? Like when I'm in a clinch and I'm buried in— it's good for short guys. Yeah, I fucking love it.

No doubt, I get in that fucking clinch all day, bro.

Am I getting that clinch?

Coleman, Mark Coleman would get in your guard and headbutt the fuck out of you, and the only guy to solve that puzzle was Maurice Smith. Well, Maurice Smith was the first guy to solve that puzzle.

Dragged him out.

Cardio, cardio, cardio and defense off his back. Good butterfly guard.

Mark Kerr murdered Fabio Gurgel with headbutts too.

Bro, headbutts when you're on top is brutal.

Yeah, I was at that Maurice Smith fight. That was the first fight I ever went to.

Really?

The UFC fight I ever went to was in Birmingham, Alabama. Really? I was there.

Yeah. Wow, bro. That was a huge upset.

Yeah, I know. Big time.

I was nervous.

I love Maurice.

Did you?

You was—

oh, I was nervous.

I was in the crowd rooting for Maurice Smith for obvious reasons. Well, I was friends and everybody, but I was the only one there rooting for Maurice Smith.

Yeah, I was friends with Maurice. Maurice came over my house, worked out with him. I was cool with Maurice.

Nice guy.

So it was like, I was sad. I was like, oh my God, Maurice is gonna fight Mark Coleman.

He's gonna get killed.

I was like, he's £260, he's a wrestler, he takes everybody down. And then when Maurice was leg kicking him, he said, come on, Mark, ground me and pound me.

Whap!

Mm-hmm. Ground me and pound me.

Whap!

He was talking to him while he was doing it. And then when Mark would move towards me, move away.

Yes.

Yeah, those leg kicks were brutal too. Maurice was the first guy to bring like world-class leg kicks. Kicks to the UFC. Yeah, world-class.

Did the Lions then guy—

actually, Pedro Rizzo.

Yeah, Pedro Rizzo. Yeah, Paul Varlan.

He had sick leg kicks.

What's the Lions— Pete, uh, Pete— I mean, Pete Williams knocked him out first.

Yeah, I think Maurice beat him first, but Maurice beat him by decision, right? Wasn't it a 5-round decision?

I think it was a decision.

I think it was a 5-round. He just beat him up.

Williams caught him with kick.

Yeah, he was head kicked with shoes on.

Yeah, the good old days.

That's right, yeah, shoes on.

Yeah, bro, what a crazy sport, man. I remember one of the first fights that I saw was this Japanese dude and Valigi, and the Jap— they were grabbing each other's like underwear, like you could hold up. They was giving him a wedgie. I think the dude he was fighting like was literally grabbing his shorts and like giving him a massive wedgie like during the fight. Holy Yeah, totally legal.

It was totally legal in the UFC.

It was bare-knuckle back then too. The first fight I worked was bare-knuckle. Yeah, that was '97. I remember that. Vitor was the only guy that had gloves on.

Was Vitor the first guy or Tank the first guy to wear gloves?

Tank was one of the first guys for sure. Tank might have been the first guy. I believe he was the first guy. And then Vitor wore them too. Vitor was, you know, bro, at 19 years old, and Vitor first fought in the UFC, he was a tornado. Holy shit, dude.

I mean, definitely put your solder on that motherfucker. 100. He looked like the fucking Hulk.

Well, not yet he didn't. When he first fought in the UFC, he only weighed £200. He was so fast. When he fought Scott Perillo, when he fought Trey Teligman, he weighed £200.

Yeah.

Then he gained tons of weight and fought Randy. And when he fought Randy, he was like 240.

And that messed him up too.

He was too big.

What did Randy got? Got cut in that one, remember?

No, that was a different one. That was in the UFC later on. Yeah, yeah. So this is like— so that was Trey Teligman. And Trey Teligman, if you're watching this, he lost his check— uh, his pec rather— in a car accident when he was a baby.

It's crazy.

Yeah, crazy.

He lost—

oh, this is Brad Kohler. Yeah, this is a different fight.

What is going on here?

Japan 1997. Oh yeah, this is not— that's not Japan '97, it's UFC 12 actually. Japan '97 was when Frank Shamrock fought Kevin Jackson, remember, in the armbar. Yeah, this was pretty crazy. This is a different card, it's Ultimate Japan '97. UFC 12 is the fight.

You remember the number? Yeah, Randy looks older there than he does now.

Pepto- It's not— it wasn't Japan though. I just heard you say something about Japan in 1997, that's all I typed in. No, no, there's a Japanese fighter is what I said. He fought Boleji— Walid Ishmael. It was either UFC 12 or UFC 13. Walid Ishmael UFC. If you find that, you'll find it. And the dude was giving him a super wedgie. You were totally allowed to grab shorts.

Shorts.

You can punch guys in the nuts.

Keep the acne punching Joe Sod in his balls.

Yeah, remember that, dude? What about Gary Goodridge in The Crucifix?

So yeah, here it is, Paul Herrera. So here it is, look what the dude's done to Luigi's pants. Luigi's pants, Jesus, all the way up the crack of his ass because the dude had a hold of his shorts. I do remember earlier in the fight.

Rather that be Mackenzie Dern he's giving the wedgie to.

But yeah, look at this, dude. Here it is, bro.

Oil check, bro.

Oh my God, so this was my first UFC that I worked. Okay, so look, the Japanese guy has the gloves on as well. So Vitor had them on, but Valijji is bare knuckle.

Look, you're allowed to grab it back then.

Look at the Japanese guy has gloves, Valijji's bare knuckle.

It's hilarious.

Isn't that crazy?

He's really grabbing his balls, grabbing his nuts.

I think you could grab nuts.

It's gotta be so uncomfortable. Hey, look how he's grabbing the fence. He's like, yeah, yeah, full on grabbing the fence.

John's trying to pry his hands away, he just grabs them again.

He just don't even let go.

At least back then I guess you couldn't grab the fence, so there was a rule. He's grabbing it again.

Look at the grab!

Look at the grab! That's the most blatant fence grabbing of all time.

I see ugly right there, bro.

Big John, would he get on it? John, John, slap his hands away! John, do something! John, John, he's grabbing the fence. They really— it was like a suggestion back then.

It was not even a rule. You're allowed to grab the fence.

I think he knocked his hands away. He was saying, "Don't grab the fence," but only like a little. Yeah, he's kind of not that enthusiastic about enforcing it.

And it was like, as he was letting go already, he was like, "Slap his hand away." Grabbed it.

Yeah, that was the first UFC I worked. The day— the rules back then were so weird. Shoes, wrestling shoes. It's weird how you, you know, like wrestling shoes would change everything. You get so much more grip on the cage, so much more ability to move. Yeah, but the wrestlers would love it. But also locks.

That's what— yeah, I mean problem.

Oh, heel hooks, a real problem.

When I first started training, I remember with Kukoc back in the day, he used to wear wrestling sneakers and stuff. And I remember being like, you know, I wanted as much for the street as possible. I remember that was my mentality. So I'd wear the wrestling sneakers. I'm like, yo, fuck this. Guys are grabbing your foot. Yeah, I'm like, oh, fuck that.

Fuck everything.

Also, like, lose your whole setting up arm bars and stuff. Like, when you try to grab the foot and throw it over, now you've got a grip on something. Yeah. It's like text— textile. Like, you could hold on to that motherfucker. A foot is— foot's hard to hold on to. They get sweaty and shit. They're all slippery.

Nah, no good. Yeah, when I hear Jens Pulver, I was like, he gonna wear shoes, right? Oh, word? That was— hey, hey, Jamie, could you find Dean Thomas's rolling kneebar on Jens Pulver? Oh, I bet they don't even have that. I think Jamie could find that.

Oh, it has to be online.

Everything's online.

Hey, Dean Thomas, those fights, those old fights, I mean, those are history.

I'm a judo fighter, you know. I remember seeing that interview because I— you remember seeing that? I studied it because I was gonna fight you. Oh, and I'm like, ah, try that kneebar on me, shit.

Jens Pulver had some laser beam punches back in the day.

I know, I remember when he knocked out John Lewis. Oh, I was like, I gotta fight this guy.

Sure, that was a bad one.

Jens Pulver, you got him in his prime too. Yeah, but I did not want that guy punching me.

Yeah, you can't be wearing shoes.

It's just a kneeball.

Yeah, it's just too much, too much of an advantage.

That was an old-school one too. You did it almost like you're gonna give your back to him and yeah, fucking roll.

I think you should let him— look at this, look at this, here it is, look at this.

Who is that fucking—

look how it's lean. Oh man, inside heel hook with shoes on.

That's a wrap. That's the worst. He has nowhere to tap.

Tap, tap, tap. A long time ago.

Thomas.

Oh my God, that must have hurt. Thomas, what did it feel like? Did you feel it?

I heard all the pop.

How bad was the injury? Oh, I don't know.

I never called him afterwards, but oh, it had to be real bad, dude.

It had to be real bad with the shoes and everything. Like, my God, look at that. How you rolled into that. That's so pretty.

Look at you.

Look at you right into the inside. Oh my God, he knows he's fucksville.

Oh God, I heard, I heard it pop. You mean Dean Thomas? Oh yeah, I heard that pop a few times afterwards. Yeah, that's awesome, Dean.

How good does that feel?

It feels good. I've watched myself get knocked out by BJ Penn over and over and over for years, so like, about time I get one, right?

Come on, those heel hook ones are the ones that you— while you're watching them, you're grabbing.

Yeah, you know, you're already—

I'm like, you're like, yeah, I hate them. I hate them with a passion. Yeah, because they ruin your whole career.

Hey, did you ever see a Kimura dislocate? Yeah, that's just ugly, man. It's like you almost like you want to push it back in.

You're like, Frank Mir, right?

Oh dude, oh dude, straight jiu-jitsu tournament, I'd snap the dude's humerus just like straight up key lock because he didn't tap. My coach is yelling like, protect your fighter.

Oh Jesus God, that's horrible. And you don't recover fully He had to get surgery.

Sounded like a pool stick snapping.

Ah, I'll just— I'll never forget the sound of Wideman when—

wide—

oh my God. Oh my God, that's like a chalkboard. Never forget that sound.

I remember that.

That was so— that one was so loud.

I wasn't in the corner.

So loud.

What are the chances Anderson does it to— you know, he does it to Anderson and then it fucking happens to him too?

Like, it's only happened to 2 guys in the UFC. It's very common. Cory Hill's the first one. Yeah, I remember the Cory Hill one because the referee didn't see it, and I put my headphones on, I'm screaming, stop the fight, stop the fight!

He passed away.

Stop the fight!

Did he?

Yeah, yeah, young.

Yeah, was it related to that?

No, I think he has some kind of disease, some kind of like something.

Bro, a break of a bone is a traumatic injury. Like, you have to understand, this is such a difference between breaking your hand, which I think we've all all done. I broke my arm when I was a little kid. Breaking your shin in half like that, it's such a traumatic—

stepping down on it.

And how about Frank Mir? Broke his femur in a car accident. A guy T-boned him on a motorcycle, snapped his thigh bone. Well, Frank wasn't the same for years. Years for him to come back to full form again.

That's rough, man. Rough.

So this is the other question about Conor: how much can you use that left leg? His left leg snapped in half, okay? And he— I see him kicking the bag and I see him doing all these things, and that's great, and I hope it's 100%, but I mean, I seen Chris Weidman kicking Hector Lombard.

They had a weird thing where I think it's only body punches and leg kicks.

You see what I'm talking about? Yeah, that jiu-jitsu thing in Russia.

Jiu-jitsu.

But it is, they do jiu-jitsu today. Yeah, yeah, they're allowed to leg kick and body punch.

It was the oddest thing.

It's the weirdest thing.

I just saw Chris just kept kicking him in his body, and Hector was like punching him in the neck. I'm like, I'm like, what the fuck kind of rules is this?

It's crazy.

I didn't know what I was watching.

Those, those ones where the dudes like stand next to each other and just leg kick each other into submission.

Oh yeah, that shit's pretty nasty.

Those are so— that's so crazy. Crazy.

Who does that?

I don't know, man, but there's a lot of those videos.

It's almost as dumb as slap. Almost.

I mean, kind of almost, because like you could really ruin your leg. Like, you don't understand. Like Pedro Rizzo, like one of those kind of guys.

Could you imagine like doing that with Pedro?

Look at the damage Rizzo did to Randleman's leg. That shit had a different vein pattern. Randy Couture, he got done with him.

Randy Couture, it was like 6 months for him to recover.

2, 2 2 fights with him earlier this year in an MMA fight.

Goddamn, man, a heavyweight fight. Oh Jesus.

Oh, are we going out to eat later, man? Fuck, you're gonna make me sick. It's a horrible, horrible injury, man. And I know how hard Chris kicks. Mongo was like backstage, he was killing the pads. It was hard to hold them.

That's such a great impression. And fucking then he went out there and Jesus, Rogan's making me feel Bad for being 68. Oh yeah, he's telling me he's so funny.

And then he was asking about a peptide. I have to text him later.

He's, he's the best.

He's— you two together, I swear to God, should be a show. Come on, it should be a show.

It's just fucking follow him around.

Yeah, just follow you guys around. Follow you to the pizza place.

I've seen him yesterday.

Be a great fucking show. It'd be a great fucking show.

Kidding me?

It really would. If you get one of them Keeping Up with Kardashians people who know how to do a reality show, film the two of you guys together hanging out hanging out, drinking coffee, talking shit, training fighters. Oh, that was epic. Yeah, epic.

I mean, don't wait too long, he's getting older.

And also think about how many guys you've worked with, like these super high-level guys like Aljo and Merab, and you know, just that, being with them, and Weidman, being with them at the UFCs. Yeah, great fucking show.

We had a great time. Who's best to have mics on in the corner? No one. Those two. Come on.

Ass. It's so funny.

I like that comedians are making comedies again. I'm looking at Harlan—

this is Harlan Williams. Harlan Williams, he put a gourd in his fucking underwear.

I love that guy.

I think that guy's hilarious.

The fake legs.

So funny.

His movie— you know, I love movies— his movie Wingman is, it's funny. It's funny.

It's a good movie, right? He's funny in everything he does.

Yeah, it's, it's— I miss those—

him and Nasty You know what it is?

These comedians are now funding it themselves. Like Theo Vaughn and David Spade did Busboys. Yes.

And Tom Segura is doing a bunch of shows.

Theo and David Spade did one together.

Theo's real life Joe Dirt, so that's, uh, you know, I like that they're just doing it where they don't have to get okayed by anybody. Yeah. And the other one I keep— I always—

and nobody's telling them what to do.

How to, how to, how to fucking be in a cult. How to snow the car. A lot of cults with, uh, uh, the Greek guy, the heavy Greek guy.

Oh, is that, uh, yeah, dude, that's a funny one, dude.

That one's— that one made me fucking laugh.

He's from Baltimore and he does a Baltimore Ravens fan after every win or loss during the season. Like, you have to fucking see it because it's fucking hilarious.

Very funny dude.

Yeah, man, I like this.

It's a good time for comedy because this is like pushback. Yeah, you know, when there's pushback, then people get excited when someone doesn't give into it. Mm, they make up, make their own shit. But if you want to try to make a comedy movie with a studio, you have to deal with so many people telling you what you can and can't say. You're way better off just doing it on your own. Like, they don't really know what funny is. They're trying to protect their job. They have a Mercedes.

They were cranking them out for a while there, like Talladega Nights, fucking Tropic Thunder.

You know what happened? The fucking internet happened. People started complaining in real life. Like, you know, it started— these morons online started affecting the way people view comedy.

So ridiculous.

It's the— meanwhile, it didn't affect the way we view violence, which is crazy. Like, you could have a super hyper-violent movie and nobody has a problem with it right now. It's the dumbest shit of all time. But if you have some crazy— like, if you tried to make a movie like, uh, like Superbad, fucking hilarious. To try to make that today, couldn't make it. You couldn't make it. Or Tropic Thunder.

Try to make Tropic Thunder. Make it fucking Robert Downey Jr. straight in blackface, straight in blackface, and then Ben Stiller full retard.

Come on.

I asked him, I said, do you think Robert Downey Jr., I said, do you think you could make that movie today? He goes, oh, you could make—

well, most of the '80s comedies about guys trying to get laid, I mean, that's the premise alone is not going to make it fucking—

you know what I'm I mean, it's funny, man. It's like we allow the most hyper-violent movies and celebrate them. Oh, this is awesome. Like, I just watched Collateral again the other day.

Oh, what a fucking— look, that's awesome.

We watched a scene in one of the, one of the episodes we did. We watched that scene where he shoots those guys in the alley, and I got so into it. I need to watch that movie again.

Yeah, sick movie, but hyper-violent.

And a movie that everybody says is a wonderful movie. Yeah, but comedy, really enjoyed it.

Yeah, let's make you laugh.

Yeah.

But doesn't it like— isn't it like spoilers? Like, I don't want to spoil it, but like, doesn't the other— doesn't Jamie Foxx kill him or something at the end?

Well, isn't that kind of cheesy?

He dies. Well, I mean, he dies somehow, but like, isn't it like kind of unbelievable that he kills the master assassin, the Taxi Driver?

I think like he wanted to die. I think when you kill a bunch of people over a long period of time—

oh, it's one of those. It's deeper than that. I didn't see your turn.

You know, it's supposed to be Russell Crowe and Adam Sandler in that movie originally.

Are you serious?

Yeah, that's crazy.

Interesting.

They should redo it. Yeah, right. Yeah.

That's interesting.

I'll tell you what, Tom Cruise was good.

Phenomenal.

He's pretty much good in everything.

Dude, they say they use that clip of him in that alley for training, like CIA shit, because it was that clean.

Do you know the scene?

No.

Oh, one of my favorite scenes.

I gotta watch it.

Jamie, pull it up. One of my favorite, one of my favorite scenes in any movie.

Idiots.

I love a good tactical draw because I love, I love a guy who practices.

What's the— it's underrated. It's a fucking— it's a live-die- Repeat.

Yes, the Tom Cruise one.

This might have been called something else, but Edge of Tomorrow. What is it?

Edge of Tomorrow.

Yeah, yeah, that's the sci-fi. It kept coming back, coming back.

Oh, this is a scene. So Jamie Foxx is strapped to the car. He, he's, he's zip-tied him to the steering wheel and took the keys. Oh, that's fine, but, uh, you can't have a bunch of guys trying to get laid. Yeah, that's unrealistic. You're sending a bad message.

Spring Break. So ridiculous.

I never thought of it that way, actually.

It's ridiculous.

The comedians, like, rebuttal to it, you know, to not being able to make the movies they want to make.

Well, it's only empowered the clubs. Like, clubs are packed. Yeah, everybody wants— because you go, like, you go to the Mothership, you're gonna hear some wild shit. People want to laugh. They don't—

nobody—

it doesn't mean you mean what you're saying, because—

right, right, right.

It's just fucking— it's calm. It's a joke.

Bob Marley didn't really really shoot the sheriff, right? What you're doing is fucking around. We all know we've always been talking shit. Talking shit has been a natural part of humans. We talk shit, we joke around. And the idea that that's supposed to be up to someone's standards or someone else's parameters of what you can and can't talk— fuck you. Fuck you. Just don't go. Just don't go watch it.

Tom Brady Roast kind of brought it, brought it back in a big way.

Yeah, in a big way. Yeah, the Tom Brady roast, I think, cracked the egg because that thing got like 55 million views on Netflix alone, like within the first week.

Joe, can I get some water, please?

Yeah. Are people still getting canceled now? I think it's kind of past.

I think it doesn't work.

You can't, because everybody can just—

people get mad.

Put your own stuff on. Yeah, you can just do your own stuff.

Well, it's also when people get canceled, people just flock to those people now. It like makes them more popular. Yeah, you know, every— look at Kanye. Kanye is selling out the biggest fucking places in the world doing pop-up shows. Yeah, he's doing arena pop-up shows.

He did one in Miami a couple weeks ago. My son went to it.

He's doing one this weekend in San Antonio.

Really?

Just pop-up show. Tony Hinchcliffe just went to the one in Tampa. He said it was insane. Yeah, this is the greatest show he's ever seen in his life. He's on top of a world. He's like standing on top of a globe and like it's spinning while he's up there doing 2 and a half hours of bangers. Yeah, like you, you realize— Tony goes, you realize how many hits this guy has?

Who is he?

You go to see Kanye, motherfucker. Shit, otherwise known as Ye.

Yeah, that's right, Yeezy.

Yeah, no one wants to do a versus battle against Kanye. He's gonna eat you up.

He's so prolific. Yeah, it's— and like Tony said, like every aspect of the show he produced, so every sound has a, like, a purpose, every lighting effect, it's all coordinated. He said it's amazing.

He's like a genius. He's a genius.

Legit crazy as fucking a shithouse rat.

It's like—

but that's how you have to be.

He's out there. I mean, but most creative people, 100%, you know, they're coming from a different.

You don't get that good by being normal, right? Like, he's too good.

But I mean, normal's overrated.

The guy comes back from wearing a diamond-encrusted swastika to selling out the biggest arenas in the world. He has a song called Heil Hitler. A year later, he's selling out the biggest arenas in the world, like, instantaneously. You know, say, while that— he's the GOAT. Like, no one's even close. He's like one of the greatest performers of all time.

Yeah.

Like, no one's even close. Like, with the stuff that he does, like, you can compare it to his contemporaries. Like, he's— I don't know.

Yeah, he's so far ahead of everybody else. Out there.

Prince was like that too. All the hits he had and all the hits he's written for people. Yeah, man. When that Freddie Gray shit happened in Baltimore, he called the city and wanted to do, like, a benefit concert or whatever. And I was able to go to it. And at one point on the stage, he's doing all these songs, and he goes, goddamn, I forgot all the good shit I did. Kept going. But the best story was on soundcheck, like, he tunes— everything's got to be the way he wants it. And Jay-Z, Beyoncé, and somebody else, I don't know who the third person was, but they were gonna come and be part of it. So they asked him if he could come. He's like, yeah, sure. So when they came, they started to go on stage for soundcheck, and a friend of mine at the building said Prince like, whoa, what are you doing up on the fucking stage? And they're like, oh, you know, we want to get our shit straight. And he goes, no, this is my shit. You want to come and be a part of it, fine. If not, get the fuck off the stage.

Whoa.

And they fuck— you know, they walked in and left and got out of there.

But you got to be careful with other stars because they do like the metal. Yeah, I wouldn't like this. Yeah, well, and the lighting—

and that dude, you know, shit was getting done how he wanted it done.

100%. It has to be. He was too good.

Yeah, he's a fucking genius. I remember the guitar solo he did at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Oh my God, he could do anything. Yeah, he could play any musical instrument. He used to play all the musical instruments.

Did you—

and he could play basketball.

Yeah.

Yeah. Did you watch that Michael Jackson—

I did.

Michael Jackson. I saw it. Did you watch it?

I did.

Yeah.

How was it? I thought it was good. Ray liked it. You didn't— you didn't see it yet? I didn't see it. Oh, it's good. No, it's good. Bongo set. Watched it?

No.

And then he told— you know what he told me? I mean, it's a good thing, I guess. After he's seen it, he goes, he didn't touch any kids. I'll tell you right now, he didn't fucking touch anything. So I'm like, let it all go. So that's all I said. I want to know your thoughts on it.

That's hilarious.

No, if— because like, my son's father was fucked up. Yeah, his father's all fucked up. But no, it's a good movie, and the guy who played his nephew nailed it. Yeah, man, nailed my family. Loved it. My wife, my kids, they loved it. I didn't see it though.

It's a cautionary tale. The Michael Jackson story is like, when kids get that famous, no one can handle it. That's what that is.

Yeah, yeah.

There's also the weirdness of the doctor saying that he was chemically castrated. His doctor, same guy who killed him, the same guy that killed him with the propofol, the guy that put him to sleep with the anesthesia, that guy said that when he was young young, his father chemically castrated him to preserve his voice.

Are you serious?

Yeah, they didn't get into that part, which totally makes sense when you look at him in comparison to all the other guys in his family. He's really thin, like he has no testosterone.

No, I never really thought about—

all the brothers are all big. Yeah, they're men. Like, you look at Jermaine, they're big men. He's really thin and he kept that high-pitched voice. Like, when you listen to some of is like Human Nature. Listen to Human Nature. Like, that voice is insane. Yeah, we can't play it on the show, but Jamie, play Human Nature by Michael Jackson real quick.

Why did— why did Varys get plump on Game of Thrones when they cut off his balls?

Well, I don't think that was real. You can still get fat, but you can't— you, you know, you don't get muscle. Like, you don't have any testosterone. It's gone.

You're a— you weren't feeding that guy either to keep him thin so he could dance, right?

Oh man.

Well, also he's probably performing every night, every night, so he's burning off shit tons of calories. If they put a Fitbit on that dude, the amount of steps that he's taking, dude, it's pretty crazy.

Like a front man for a band, the fucking running they're doing.

We're gonna play this song, Human Nature. Oh, the official music video. Oh man, that voice.

You—

I don't think you get that voice from a man.

No, but how do you—

a regular man that has Kevin Lee Cash castrate somebody the same way that they do it with puberty blockers that they use on kids and stuff. Like, no, like when you're— when they do puberty blockers, that's what puberty blockers do. Yeah. What they're doing is they're just blocking all of your testosterone production. And so they used to do it to criminals. So if they had a sex offender that was, uh, they would chemically castrate them.

I'm all for that.

Yeah, chop their dicks off.

Just eliminate them.

We just eliminate them. Yeah, they be eliminated. But the chemically castration thing they used to do with opera singers, they called them castratos, but not chemically castrated. They used to use a knife, they used to chop their balls off when they were young so that they could sing like, like a woman. It was a very haunting sound. Like, there's only one recording of a castrato that's from like— Jimmy, what was it from, like the 1800s? There's one recording of a guy singing that had no balls. Oh, and then they do it to them when they're really young. They do it to them when they're kids.

No kidding.

Yeah, like your family sells you off to some opera and they slice your balls off and keep you that way forever. Crazy.

Damn.

Yeah, and the sound— see, find that castrato recording. The sound is haunting, man. You hear the guy singing and it creeps you out. You're like, oh my god, this guy was a little boy and they cut his balls off. So he could sing like this.

Oh, that's so—

oh yeah. And I think that's what they did to Michael Jackson. At least that's what the doctor says. It makes sense to me.

I mean, it makes sense, like, even watching the movie, how hard his father was on him and how much he demanded of him. Oh man, you're gonna creep us out now.

Listen to this guy's voice. Okay.

Oh, Jesus Christ, that's depressing.

But we know that that was an actual process. That was an actual practice. They really did chop boys' balls off so they could sing better.

Went from Happy Human Nature to Sound of Night. Some funny— was fucking dying.

I know, it's really nuts if you think about the horrible things that people are willing to do. It's not disproving it or anything, it's just the guy saying he went to search where they were doing it. I think he said he was having very trouble, a lot of trouble finding a lot of information about castratos. Yeah, and where they did it or how they did it. But they hide that.

Yeah, I was chopping nuts off.

Oh yeah. Let me take you to the lab.

We'll show you what we do with the balls.

Are you doing those peptides?

Many eunuchs were castrated after puberty and thus castration had no effect on their voices. Oh, that's a eunuch though. Well, that's just puberty.

After puberty then, yeah, it wouldn't.

Right. So there you got to catch them young.

Yeah, right.

You got to catch them before they grow their nuts. That's so horrible. This is goes back to 400 AD. But boy, Constantinople, boy, who, who's— who came up with that idea? I have an idea, right?

I mean, how many of them died from infection from getting their nuts chopped off, you know?

Probably a lot, you know. Back then they didn't even know what fucking cooties were. They had no idea.

Yeah, they didn't clean the knife. The knife? Yeah.

No, disgusting. It started off with a a punishment. It wasn't a choice. And then they realized these guys sing really nice in prison.

It's kind of cool.

They sing in the shower. I really like it. Gentlemen, this was a lot of fun.

As always.

We always have such a good time.

Hell yeah.

Matt, how you feeling?

What are you talking— why me? Why out of everybody? 100 milligrams.

Hey, you're right.

Handle like a boss.

Like a boss.

Give me another.

Your eyes are a little thin.

I was gonna say, he looks a little Asian right now, my Italian paisan.

Guys, you handled it.

I had a great time.

It's always fun. Let's go eat.

Let's go eat.

Yeah, is it Italian? Uh, we can go wherever.

Whatever. Did you want to do Italian?

Well, let's cut this off.

All right, all right, all right.

Uh, you want to—

Matt Serra Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu?

Channel on YouTube.

That too. Yeah, and you can actually train at Matt's gym.

Yeah, you could come there too, but subscribe to that thing.

Subscribe to that. Yeah, it's Ground Control.

Yep, groundcontrolusa.com has all the locations. We just opened in Stuart, Florida. And shogunfights.com. Next show is November 14th.

Dean Thomas, fight expert slash movie producer slash Deep Waters every Monday.

My myself, Jorge Masvidal, Chris Weidman, and Dustin Poirier. Monday at noon, Deep Waters on Paramount Plus.

And your film.

And my film Flowers, it's coming out soon.

It's a good one.

I loved it.

Yeah, I loved it.

I loved it. The end, phenomenal ending.

Yeah, gentlemen, we did it. Another one. Thank you, guys. Bye, everybody.