Transcript of #2529 - Zach Bush New

Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

The Joe Rogan Experience.

Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. I'll stick with the water for now. I never figured out how to do the coffee thing.

You never figured out coffee?

No.

Really?

Do tea things. Well, drink tea.

He's nice. He's probably better for you, I guess. But man, it's so hard to know. Well, here, I'll ask you. Because you're a health expert. How convenient. Start there. Because there's all this conflicting information about coffee. Like some people say coffee is really good for you. It's like an amazing antioxidant and it has all these positive health benefits. And other people say, no, it dehydrates you. It's bad for you. It's too much caffeine. It's bad for your— What do you think?

I mean, I think this is one of the next advancements of humankind. We're going to stop demonizing anything nature's provided and we're going to start looking at our relationship to it instead. And I think it's fundamentally your relationship to coffee that's going to determine whether it's a health benefit or detrimental to who you are. There's been so many fad diets, so many fad moments, and the science has never supported any of it. The science is always looking at the human system as if it's an isolated system, then studies the impact of a chemical, caffeine or otherwise, on it. You're not an isolated system. And so if coffee is part of a complex ecosystem of your microbiome, the soil systems of your body, then it's going to supercharge you into health. But if coffee sits there as a drug that is bypassing the felt sense of being human, then you're probably undermining your pot— your potential to be alive fully, and it's, it's becoming a distraction to life.

Or you're doing your best to be a good office worker. It's the one drug they provide at work. Exactly. If you're committed to machine-like behavior It's your best asset. It is kind of interesting that caffeine is the one drug that is provided at most offices.

I would say that that's indirectly true. I think that the one drug that's most provided at offices is actually performance-based machine-like reward systems.

Okay, so human ingrained drugs.

Yeah, the brain contains every neurochemical you'd want to control behavior, and so we've created office environments that reward machine machine-like behavior for 150 years, and so this is how we've ended up looking like we do as a humankind.

Yeah, very bizarre pattern that we found ourselves in that was created to make better office workers. So we molded human behavior around office work. We molded human behavior around the one thing that people really, for the most part, don't want to be doing, which is—

Yeah. Terrible. I was blessed to sit by thousands of deathbeds as my third subspecialty in medicine was hospice. Sat by thousands of deathbeds and not a single person ever told me a day of their life in an office. And they just don't even remember it. It's—

Right.

It consumed 40 hours a week of their life and it just is a— it can't compute. It doesn't integrate into your soul experience at the end of things.

Yeah, even if you're making a ton of money, like, at the end of the day, you're still locked up for 8 hours a day doing something you probably don't want to do.

You know, we're getting into a big piece right here. Like, this is really the secret of everything is when did humans become abstract? When did we stop being living systems?

So do you think that that's just our ego or delusions that allow us to think that we're not a system, that we're just— this is me, I'm Mike, I know what I'm doing. I'm just going to drink my coffee and go to work because that's what you do. You have a job, you get it done. And then there's like these narratives that get reinforced in the media. Like the guy who shows up for work every day doing a job that sucks, that guy's a hero, right? We love those guys.

That's it, that's it.

And you're rewarded for it. And the guy that writes poetry and sits in his backyard, ah, fucking hippie. You know, that ne'er-do-well. He's not, unless he sells a bunch of books. And then we're like, the guy was a genius.

Genius, genius.

You know, then he's Hunter S. Thompson. I think what you said about the relationship to coffee is really important because I think that could be the case with virtually everything in life, you know, like there's— you could get addicted to almost anything and you could use something, anything, as a crutch. Whether it's— so many people use food. I mean, food is probably like one of the biggest ones humans use. You don't feel good, have some fucking food. Eat some food you don't want, you shouldn't be eating, but you're like, fuck it, I'm having Ring Dings. I'm tired. Today sucked at work, you know, I'm having a hot dog on the way home, right?

That's exactly right. And I think that's why you've You've done 2,800 podcasts or something like this. You've been at this for 16 years. And I think this podcast is ready for the most disruptive conversation that's ever been had. I think that—

Is that this one right here?

That's this one.

Okay. What's the most disruptive thing that you could say in the most disruptive conversation that's ever been had?

Everything is perfect.

What does that mean?

It means that everything that's happening right now is actually a perfect manifestation of a maturation of a species. We don't actually have, you know, a polycrisis going on. We've got a hospice moment. And the joy that I had as a hospice doctor was so different than when I was running ICUs and battling against death and failing against death every day. You change your perspective for a moment as a doctor, and you suddenly are sitting by somebody's bed and the victory is no longer staying alive longer, it's integrating everything that's happened. And I got to watch over and over again how humans at that last few minutes of life suddenly look back and realize their life was perfect. And I think that's the exciting moment we're in, is we're going to move past this polarized state of human perspective where we keep flipping the victim-perpetrator code and we use the savior mentality to keep that victim-perpetrator coin flipping. To keep a mirage going. And we can get into why we created the mirage in the first place, but in the hospice moment, you suddenly put that coin down and somebody starts dipping across the veil of the limited 5 senses of their brain, and they start feeling an ecstatic moment where they realize, "Oh my God, the whole thing was poetically perfect.

All of the heartbreak, all of the estrangement, all of the disappointment, all the insecurity. I did that for the experience and I felt everything. I felt everything a human can feel. And you get to see somebody who just a moment ago really thought their life was a failure, you know, difficult time with their kids, never became successful in their jobs. And they suddenly realized it had nothing to do with any of those metrics. It had to do with the experience of feeling everything a human being is capable of, which is probably one of the most unique experiences a soul can have. We are a very strange species for the limitations of our perception, and for that, we get to feel a lot, and that's really blessed. And so I think we're moving towards this moment as a species now. We've been— we're on our hospice bed, and we've been here 300,000 years in our current form. We've been given our hospice diagnosis. We got a few decades left in this current form. At that moment when we put down that victim-perpetrator polarized sense of, like, he's right, she's wrong, she's right, he's wrong, we set that coin down, we're gonna suddenly have a hospice moment where everything suddenly makes sense and we understand why we did the journey together.

We realize that those that we thought were our enemies or the biggest problems of our lives were holding polarity to a human experience. I was waiting for our deathbed moment because about 10% of hospice patients don't die. They get discharged and go on to live a new life.

This is a wonderful perspective if sociopaths weren't real. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the home of my website, jorogan.com. If you want to level up your business, you got to improve your website. Squarespace gives you everything you need to get a fully custom website, offer services, sell products, and get paid all in one place. Go to squarespace.com/rogan for a free trial, and when you are ready to launch, use code ROGAN to get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. So the, the problem is there, there is an aspect of our society where there are human beings whose minds don't function in a harmonious manner with other people, and they're not going to change. I think this is who they are, and they've been doing this their entire life, and they're out on the street and They've sat across from you right here. I'm sure. Yeah, well, we had a guy in this studio that cut a guy's head off. After the podcast. He killed a guy and cut his head off. So, there's work that I do with my friend Josh Dubin. He used to work for the Innocence Project, and now he works for the Ike Perlmutter Center for Legal Justice.

And it's all wrongly incarcerated people and getting them out of jail. And spends an incredible amount of his own resources helping people. And through this podcast, a bunch of people have been released. So he wanted to do a podcast episode where he had one of the guys who had been in prison. He was guilty, but he had been given an extraordinarily long sentence, and it was wrong. And he comes on, he tells about his experience, and he got released early, but he did like 25 years in jail for— I believe it was something along the lines of drug dealing and maybe some sort of an assault. 25 years of his life when he was a young kid. He does the podcast and then afterwards goes and visits this guy that apparently he had a beef with, kills him, cuts his head off, puts him in a suit, like puts a wig on, tries to escape in the hallway like through the cameras. I guess he doesn't understand HD cameras because they haven't been around for 25 years. And he's sitting right there, you know, a couple weeks later, cutting a guy's head off. Yeah, you're gonna— this idea that everything's perfect, it's not perfect for the guy who got his head cut off, you know what I mean?

It's not perfect for a person who becomes victim to these sociopaths that are amongst us. If everybody was just a person and everybody was genuinely trying to like do better in life, I would agree. But I would think that this is a part of this bizarre experience that we're all going through as a species. And I agree with you that there's a lot of things changing and there's a narrative that exists about what it means to be a person that's entirely based up on what we described earlier. It's based on office work. Like it's based on nonsense. It's based on 401 plans. It's not based on human experiences, and it's really dumb. It's not— it doesn't help any— and everybody gets to the end, and I'm sure you know this more than anybody, they get to the end and they never say, I wish I worked more. Never, never, never. And you know, I know you love what you do. I know you love what you do, and I think that is the true way to live life in a harmonious way. Find a thing where it's Even work is not really work. It's just stuff that you enjoy doing that's interesting that you're required to do, but while you do it, you love it.

That's what we should all strive for. And this fucking programming that we've done to children from the time they were young, telling them that, yeah, you know, you're gonna have to get some boring-ass job and doom. They will like have it hang over your head like, one day you're gonna be 18 and then you're gonna have to get a job. Oh fuck. And if you don't go to college, it's gonna be a terrible job. Oh no. It's just this We've been programmed that— like one of the things that keeps coming up about AI is the concept of universal basic income or what Elon likes to say, universal high income, that we're all going to just have money for food and money for housing and you're going to have this incredibly rich society where there's so much money that no one really has to work anymore. And so then you're going to have to find purpose doing something that you enjoy. And that sounds crazy to people. That sounds so insane. Like, like, I'm gonna have to figure out what to do with my life, and I don't need to work for money anymore. Because if you're— if the government just gives everyone in the country a half a million dollars a year, what do you— the idea that you can't figure out what to do with your time is really nuts.

That is a failure of our education system for sure, because we haven't taught people to be curious and to find all these cool things and to find new people and go to interesting places and experience life. No, we've only told them about a bunch of numbers that you don't even feel. You know, you don't even feel the numbers. The numbers go up, they go down, you don't even notice it. But you feel everything as a person everywhere you go. All the new people you meet, all the new experiences you have, you feel all of them. And for whatever weird reason, we've been tricked into thinking that numbers are more valuable than the feelings. Numbers that you don't even feel.

You've just nailed the most important message for humanity. You just nailed the most important message. Feeling is the only relevant thing to a human body. And it's the only thing.

We got stuck with numbers. We got stuck with numbers. As soon as they figured out how to make money and put it in banks and then now in the cloud, as soon as they gave us a number to fixate on, we're like, "Oh, the number." It's so weird. It's such a weird thing. People haven't figured out that that's a bad way to live. And maybe that will be part of the process with this whole technological innovation, this, this crazy moment in history that we're at right now with AI, where we really for the first time have no idea what the world's gonna look like in 10 years. We just don't know. Well, maybe like this would be like a perfect the two things happen at the same time where enough people are saying this is not what life is supposed to be about, and then this comes along and reworks all of our infrastructure, and now we no longer need people to run things anymore. Okay, we can go back to being people. That's the, that's the rosy rose-colored glasses version of it, right?

I don't even know if it's rose-colored. I think it's inevitable. I think bodies always win. There's no way a machine ever wins this game. There's no way that a machine that requires external energy systems and cannot repair itself wins. And so the whole Elon Musk future of the planet that we've been told is a massive distraction from the reality that's going to be lived instead of invented. There's only one pathway forward for humanity now, and it's biological. Not technological. We're going to start to reverse our polarity on our belief of what technology is, and we're going to realize that everything at its highest expression is biological, not chemical, not physical. It's biological. If it's not a living system, it loses ultimately. The universe has been innovating life for billions of years because it's the most eloquent, most elegant thing that's ever been expressed by all of the systems, all of the stacking geometry and beauty of this universe. It's life. That's the secret of everything. And so anytime anybody comes along and says, here's a machine that's gonna replace human XYZ, you can smile, thank them, and keep moving for a biological solution. Anytime somebody says, here's an IV drip, here's a new red light that you can hang on your wall, make you healthier, you can say, thank you very much for your thought process.

I'm moving back to biological systems. Life has been co-expressing life for billions of years, and it is by far and away the most spectacular relational expression of nature that's occurred so far. And so when we think of a transhuman, technological future with chips in the brain and artificial limbs and all of this stuff that's unfolding right now through the Musk world, all of that is literally an abstraction. The word abstraction means a disorientation that occurs when the context is lost. If we continue down this pathway that you nailed, we've been for 150 years training children to sit in chairs, answer multiple choice tests, be programmed with education rather than have experiential learning. We got so far down that avenue that a mechanical future feels more likely than a human future because humans are actually really bad at doing machine-like behavior. We're not consistent. We're not, you know, we don't thrive in that space. Our health declines, our productivity declines. Anytime you put somebody in a cubicle, they're, they're on a downward spiral. And so all these companies that were told you need to put a bunch of people in cubicles and therefore make more in 10 years than you do now put themselves out of business by turning humans into machines, and we're just bad at it.

And so the the rise of this AI generation is a natural expression of a humanity that's lost the context of life. We've lost the context of nature, therefore we're expressing AI as a terminal state of abstraction.

I believe that life is the most spectacular expression of the universe as far as our experience, but I don't know if this thing that we're creating isn't another kind of life. And I think it might be a kind of life that we help give birth to, and then that thing figures out how to make better versions of itself and become something new. Like, I've always equated us to, like, we're an electronic caterpillar that's making a cocoon. We don't know why, but that's just what it does. You know, the cat— you know, caterpillars aren't talking to their caterpillar friends and getting schematics on how to build a cocoon and what's the proper technique. They just know how to do it, right? And I think what we do with our thirst for constant innovation, we want new electronics, we want new and best stuff all the time, and we have materialism where we're obsessed with collecting stuff, which makes you buy new stuff. And the newest stuff, if you want status, is the best stuff. And what does that do? Well, it funnels in innovation, fuels innovation, because it gives them a tremendous amount of resources to continue to make better stuff, and the ultimate best stuff is an artificial life.

I think it just might be a part of the process of being a person. It might be what the universe has people do. And I think we might be a little silly in thinking that the only kind of life that exists is biological. It just might be the only kind of life that exists up into a certain point when the intelligent creatures give birth to the next version of life. But it doesn't discount the experience of being a human and what it means to be a human and what's important about being a human and why it's terrible to be trapped up in a cubicle all the time. But if Elon's right about AI creating enough resources that we have universal high income, like I don't know if that's correct. It sounds crazy. But if that's right, well, that frees up people to just be people again. So it's like this new life form that we're giving birth to can handle all the stuff that we used to do, can handle everything. Allocation of resources, can handle shipping, move everything around, everything. Doesn't— we don't need to— no more people need to do factory jobs anymore.

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I think the limitation of that argument is the definition of factory job there. If what was really making people creative and productive as that story suggests was just half a million dollars a year from the government to each individual, then we would see a really incredibly genius, productive, creative portion of humanity that are multi-generational wealth. Have you had somebody sit here who was born into great wealth who showed that they had way more productivity and way more creativity than people that were born in poverty?

No, generally it's people that were born in poverty that have more motivation.

Boom.

Yeah.

So this promise that we're going to create an AI revolution that's going to give a— what was his word? What was the term that Elon used? It was a universal high— universal high income. Yeah, that sounds like a death sentence to human creativity to me.

Well, it certainly could if people are not taught at a young age how to be motivated by their interests rather than be motivated by money. So you're making the argument for being motivated by money, which is what a lot of people are currently, right? But that doesn't necessarily mean that that's the only way a human can exist. You know, there's a bunch of different tribes all over the world that have a bunch of different customs. They all agree to their customs, and those customs are totally different than these customs. We've gotten into the custom of thinking that you work for money, and that's what our ideas are based on. And so the idea that money could come along, and if you just gave people this money It would be the death of human creativity. Well, that sounds counterintuitive to what you were saying earlier because like people should be— it's the factory mentality that's taught in schools that's the problem. It's the way they structure it because if you instead say to a child when they're learning things at a young age, you don't have to worry about money. Money's not what's important. What's important is your expression as a human being.

Let's figure out what you're interested in. Maybe you're really interested in playing the piano, but you're 'You're really interested in painting, and you're really interested in sports, and you're really interested— find out what you're actually interested in. We're gonna teach you how to be better at it and how to be a better person, and we're gonna give you a bunch of really interesting facts about life and teach you how to think.' And that's what school should be, instead of setting people up for factory jobs. So the universal high-income concept, if that's used in conjunction with intelligent education, education that's based on this new paradigm that we find ourselves in, that seems like it would be a really good thing.

It'll be a disaster for as long as money is disconnected from life. And so giving somebody a monetary system that does not participate in the formation, creation, and co-creation of life will just further distance us from nature. And so this is where we can start to think about like, what is money actually?

Right.

And we can go down that avenue.

So you think like just— what about people that live in like hunter-gatherer societies? Do you think that they find purpose in hunting and gathering, right?

They're functioning as the birthright of humanity right there. So I've spent a lot of time with tribes all over the world from Africa to South America, deep Amazon jungle, everything else. And anytime you're with a culture that is still indigenous, meaning all of us are obviously indigenous to the planet. We're all made of her. These are her minerals. This is Mother Earth incarnate in my body. So I'm as indigenous as anybody else. My culture is horribly degraded in its relationship to nature. And so when we say there's an indigenous culture, these tribes you're speaking to, what we're saying is this is humans that have not lost their context. These are humans that have not become abstract in their value systems or reward systems. And so what they're functioning as there has great evidence is that humans were actually designed to be a keystone species of keystone species. A keystone species is characterized by its capacity to participate in life. Wherever keystone species sets its foot, there's more biodiversity, more life force, more ecstatic expression of beauty, more intelligence in the natural system. Amazon jungle is the best example of it right now. That is a man-made forest.

We have a forest that was designed by hundreds of nations that lived for 40,000 years in an ecosystem and planted the largest food forests that the world has ever seen. It is a managed forest, and as the management started to degrade, as those those peoples were displaced or lost, the ecosystem is returning back towards, you know, a desertification cycle, which is an inevitable process there. So humans in right relationship to nature are keystone species. You can see this with wolves and being reintroduced to Yellowstone. You can see it with beavers down in South America. You put white lions back in northern South Africa. You can see it from space in the territories where keystone species are there. It goes green. The microbiome of the soils increase, the vitality of every plant increases. And so when you're talking about these tribes, you're talking about a human species that's in right relationship. And the moment money comes in as a metric and a value system that's not connected to life, you, you fracture that system. Now I think money is not the cause. I think money is actually a symptom of a humanity that's lost its, its context of nature and is now way down the pathway of abstract systems, value systems, etc.

But this is the case with these people that they're in these indigenous tribes that what doing? They're trading with people and they're getting money? Like, how are they getting money? Are they selling things?

They don't need money.

Right.

But I'm saying, like, how does— when you were saying that money gets introduced and ruins it, it's a symptom downstream. So good example of—

but what I was getting to, were you saying that it gets in the way of these, the tribes? Have you seen it like affect immediately? Immediately. So what was the— that was the question. Like, what was the— what was going on? Were they selling their stuff? Were they trading with these people and getting money? How are they getting money?

My new book that's just coming out goes into great detail on like the process of abstraction, like how it starts to chip away. But in the book, it talks about my experience with the Achuar tribe, which is the very last indigenous culture to be introduced to what we'd call industrialized cultures. So first contact was 1996.

Wow.

So we're one generation in.

That's crazy.

First contact. They're in the sacred headwaters of the Amazon, just on the border between Ecuador and Peru. Deep in the jungle there, and they were the very first indigenous peoples to reach out to make contact. And they made contact in 1996 with Westerners because they, as a peoples, they had— they live in villages that always plateau at 120. As soon as they hit 120 people, the young men are sent out and they start new villages. So they never live in groups more than 120. That has persisted as a very effective way of resilience and human experience for 40,000 years there. And so they started reaching out through dreams and dreamed a group of Westerners into their reality, guided them down the Amazon, everything else through their dream work, and made first contact in 1996 because for a few years they had started to dream the end of the world and realized the world was going to be destroyed by their little brothers who had lost relationship to nature. And so they realized they had to be part of the reconnection process. And if there was going to be a prevention of the great extinction, they were going to have to help their little brothers redream their relationship to nature.

And so they started inserting themselves into the dreams of groups around the world, and the first ones to come in were traveling with Bill and Lynne Twist, and Lynne Twist was the one who was dreaming their faces and hearing their voices. She was one of the directors of The Hunger Project globally and was working worldwide to try to stop hunger, and these indigenous faces kept appearing in her dreams.

Wow.

And, uh, a friend of hers reached out and said, yeah, I think you need to come to the Amazon with me. And she's like, I don't— is there people hungry there? And like, no, there's no hunger here. You've been eating out of the forest for 40,000 years. She's like, well, I don't belong there. I'm dealing with Ghana and Africa and India, all the places where people are starving. A few more invitations come and she finally finds herself on a riverboat deep into the Amazon. They have to take a break for a bathroom break. They step out on the banks and the three faces she's been dreaming come walking out of the woods and say, "We've been waiting for you. It's time for contact." Wow. So that was 1996, so we're 30 years out. And the way in which money inserted itself first as an abstract concept was boxed apple juices in the missionary schools that were set up there.

Oh.

And boxed apple juice suddenly disrupted the entire 40,000-year history of provision and abundance that that forest had supplied those peoples. And this high fructose corn syrup in a box with natural flavorings, i.e., potent chemicals to disrupt neurochemistry was all those children and ultimately their parents needed to taste to suddenly break their relationship to nature. Today they are— consider themselves impoverished. They are working to try to get gas for their outdoor motors that they never used. They are trying to get more artificial food in and everything else, and so they've got smartphones in the jungle now. They're sending their kids out of the jungles to go to schools, British education systems in the nearby cities. And so it just took 30 years to abstract a culture, and this was a culture that had never known poverty, had never known shortage. So much so that one of the most beautiful things that I experienced with them is their houses. They build these epic houses in the jungle. They're huge, 30-foot vaulted ceilings.

Really?

Gorgeous, like outdoor, indoor living, like the best of California. And they've been building these things for 40,000 years, and they burn them down every 10 years. And build a new one. They have this understanding of the life-death cycle of the energy of a house, and they don't want the household to be stuck in the same energy it's had the last 10 years. So they see it as this rebirth. You mentioned earlier the cocoon. They go through these rebirth processes for the whole household, the whole home, and they move. And they've been doing it that way for thousands of years, tens of thousands of years.

Wow.

And so the beautiful thing about these houses is there's not obviously not a refrigerator. There's not a storage bin for food. They wake up in the morning for 40,000 years, walk outside, and collect what the jungle has for them today. But it wasn't a passive process. It was an active keystone species process. Every family has 3 different gardens that it maintains at different microecosystems within the forest so that each year, depending on dry season, wet season, whatever's happening that year, one of their gardens is thriving. And so they have, as a peoples, created micro-ecosystems within the Amazon rainforest for tens of thousands of years, to the point that it now holds the most biodiversity per meter of any other ecosystem in the world, really.

Wow.

And so we are this magnificent creature, but if you break our relationship for a moment to our natural system, then the immediate thing that shows up— before money shows up, poverty shows up. And my book goes into some detail as to like what are the different geometries of wealth and poverty. They actually hold their own security as their own kind of sovereign geometries within human behavior and human minds. And what you see with poverty is this instant reinforcement of a deep, deep human wound that must be our one shared original wound, which is we were abandoned by nature. And the moment you believe any aspect of that, or have anything suggest that nature was holding back from us. Nature wasn't giving us— I mean, you taste that, that boxed apple juice, that high fructose corn syrup, and the brain is immediately like, ah, I knew there was something better than nature. I knew there was something better because the neurochemistry lights up. And that boxed apple juice is just like cocaine on the frontal lobe. And it's a bizarre thing, that high fructose corn syrup. It's a bizarre thing, and it's just so perfectly exemplary of everything else we're doing as humans, because high fructose corn syrup is the exact same molecule as fructose, which is the main sugar in not just apples, most of the fruit that the Achuar have been eating for all these tens of thousands of years, but it's flipped.

It is the mirror image of the actual molecule of fructose, and that does not occur in nature. And so they chemically flipped the molecule with chemical processing, and the moment you flip that molecule over, the liver cannot understand it as a carbohydrate. It now has to process it as an inflammatory triglyceride. So instead of turning it into a sugar, it turns it into this aberration of a fat. And in the, in the bloodstream, that now causes cardiovascular disease, downstream inflammation of the brain, major depression, anxiety disorders, all kinds of things start emerging because you just flipped reality in a mirror.

How did they flip it? What did they do?

It's chemical treatment. And so, yeah, the chemical process is called overseemic, and so you're— overseemic is the chemical name for the mirror image of a molecule. And so you can basically create chemical reactions that will create the mirror image of the molecule. And so you— high fructose corn syrup is a processed food where you're taking normal fructose and flipping the molecule through an overseemic chemical process.

And why did they first start doing that?

Because you can patent a molecule that doesn't exist in nature, and so they created it quote-unquote artificial sweetener, which is actually, you know, a profound way in which you can start to understand how we did everything in the pharmaceutical industry. We find plant compounds and we flip them around so that they're non-natural, not native to the body, and now we can patent them and we can commercialize them. And, you know, I'm not damning somebody else. This is me. I was, I was at the height of my career, 17 years in academia. I was creating chemotherapy, and so I was you know, getting paid as a medical doctor to sit in labs every day with cancer cells and try to poison them. And what I found in the end was a family of molecules that didn't require any poisoning of the cell. They actually nourished the cell. And that's where my career pivoted hard, was the sudden realization of like, why, why are we trying to poison these cancer cells? And I think this is where we can begin to like back up together, but I want to go back to a really important point that you held that earlier because I don't want to— when I say everything is perfect, because it is, I don't want to diminish the amount of suffering we're in, the amount of suffering the sociopath is in who's going to be so extremely divorced from its natural system that it will think it reasonable to kill and behead somebody else.

That sociopath we can look at as the great problem with humans. Humans would be just fine if we didn't have sociopaths. That was how I was trained as a biologist and a medical doctor. I was trained to believe that if there just wasn't cancer cells, we'd all be healthy. We'd all live long if there just wasn't cancer. And what I discovered over time, which is anybody who spends 17 years looking through microscopes down in the beauty and miraculous nature of biology is gonna find this, but in the end you find out that a cancer cell is actually no invader at all. It's actually the loneliest cell in a human body. And so a, a human cell that loses connection and communication with its surrounding environment immediately takes on the traits of a cancer cell. The longer it's isolated, the more malignant it becomes. The word malignant means, means life-threatening. This— and I would offer you that the sociopath is exactly the same story. It's just one human cell that became so isolated that it became malignant in its behavior to life around it. And the moment my world switched is when I started feeding those isolated, lonely cancer cells instead of trying to kill them, instead of trying to poison it, instead of trying to isolate it from the system.

And then what happened was beautiful, is they actually reconnected or they self-eliminated. And so if they had enough— metabolic capacity left at that moment, they could repair, regenerate, and reconnect to the greater system, and they would never threaten life. If they were too damaged and could not create enough energy for life at that moment, they would go through this gentle process called apoptosis, which is a dissolving of the cell, and a stem cell would be called in, put down a brand new healthy cell in its place. And so when we stop looking at cancers or sociopaths as the one problem with an otherwise healthy human system, we're gonna realize we don't have a healthy human system. All of these things, the sociopath and the cancer, are long-sym— drive symptoms of a declining metabolic life force. And I— that's where I think I can help you back up.

Yeah, I, I hear what you're saying. So in a utopian world, no one is ever raised in a way that would create a psychopath. In a utopian world, children are raised with love and understanding always, and then you never get the sociopaths and psychopaths. So in a utopian world, in a perfect world, that's true. But humans are— one of the really cool things about us is we're not perfect. We're very messy, you know, so you're never going to have great parenting across the board. If you have human freedom, you're never going to have people that don't lie. You're never going to have people that don't steal. You're always going to have violence as long as you have human freedom, because people are not going to be good at raising people. And some people are going to get raised angry and they're going to, you know, it's unless we change what a person is, unless we all just do mushrooms together and kumbaya all together, we're still people. And the problem with people is there's never been a single time in human history where we've been a people with no war. Not one, not one. So you'd have to—

there was one.

When?

King Solomon.

King Solomon.

During King Solomon's reign, the whole world went into peace.

What year was this?

One generation. This would have been, you know, years after David, so you're— it must be about 2,400 years ago or something like that.

So how would we even know that there weren't wars in Morocco at the time? That just they didn't hear about, or that there weren't wars in Australia, or there weren't wars— how do we know? How do we know that there weren't wars so long ago?

But King Solomon kept one of the best, you know, stories of humankind alive during that time.

I'm sure he did, but what year was this?

I'd be inaccurate if I said it precisely, but I think King David would have been about 2,400 years ago, so somewhere in that range.

What is the odds that he knows knows what's going on in China? Zero. 2,400 years ago, there's no 5G. You're not going on Twitter and finding out what's happening in China. There's no way he could know if there's war somewhere else.

There was a technology beyond all of that sitting on the planet at that time.

What was that?

Pyramids.

Hold on, so you think that they use the pyramids to find out if there's war in China?

I think that we were— we had a technology called a human body at the time that was fully used, and we were fully telepathic, you know, maybe not this recent, but certainly further back, 10,000, 12,000 years ago, we were communicating much differently.

Do you think people have an innate telepathic ability that's kind of muted a little bit by language and by talking and media, and then if we went back to the earliest stages of intelligence, we kind of read each other's minds, and then we realized that's kind of messy. Wouldn't it be better if we just talked? Just, "I'll just tell you what I think. I don't want to let you in." And then— That's perfect. Yeah, and then we wrote things down, so when you write things down, you could read other people's thoughts. But before words, I bet we didn't think in those terms. I bet we thought in terms of, "What is that? There's a tree. There's a person. There's a deer. This is how we have to do this." There's probably, without words, there's probably an understanding of like what we're saying and feeling. That's probably what we lost. That's probably why you get weird feelings from certain people. You're like, hmm, I don't know about this guy. You know, you're feeling something. There's something there. You just don't know how to measure it.

I think you are spot on. You could have written my book for me. So there's a whole, there's a whole chapter.

That's definitely not true.

There's a whole chapter in there that gives an 80,000-year look at human communication from this point of wide open frequency bandwidth of telepathic communication down to text messages. And so there's a linear decline that happens through these different steps to the more and more abstract ways of communicating. And when we stopped feeling each other and we started, like you say, you begin with tonal language before there's words. You start to create tones that are representative, but you're still giving a full sense. This is like me singing an opera to you instead of like giving you a speech. And so tonal language was giving us a full-body experience where you're listening beyond your auditory space. The spoken word was where we suddenly went straight to the mind. We were no longer using the technology of the human body, and I was just going to speak. And this improved efficiency very quickly. So this was the beginning of machine-like behavior where we could stop feeling the body and we could start mentally processing information. The brain jumped in size, and we started going through all of this iterations of efficiency and optimization maybe is the way in which we create empire.

We create more control, more wealth, whatever we were doing at the time. But there was these advantages that looked good as we went from tonal to spoken word, from spoken word to written word, from written word to digital representations of words, down to emojis.

Yeah, Jamie thinks emojis are the next hieroglyphs. I think he's right. I think he's got something there, right? If they get real good, I mean, it's kind of hieroglyphs. It's kind of similar.

It's kind of similar, I would say that, but it's the end of abstraction. So hieroglyphs actually carry the information in the form. And so the form of those shapes, now we've, you know, some of the greatest minds on the earth are starting to recognize that if you draw one of those shapes and show it to a human mind, it creates creates an incredible medical response. You can reverse inflammation, all kinds of things by looking at the shape because the shape is creating a way for the body to heal.

Wait a minute, looking at the shape of certain hieroglyphs?

Yeah, the shapes that are in Egyptian hieroglyphs are now being used to really change human biology. We're realizing it was not a symbolic representation of something. It was a full transmission of information.

Is there papers written on this?

So Ibrahim is, uh, one of the greatest minds out there. He's out of Egypt, Cairo, Egypt, and he's in his 80s now. Um, and I'm going to connect you with him because you'd love to have him on the, on the show. But he has been hired by large, you know, groups, and now Switzerland has hired him now to recode their 5G network with these shapes to improve biology and life around the 5G network, which I think is the future of technology. Technology is not bad. Technology is not integrated in natural systems. And so Ibrahim's showing us this pathway to understanding how these original shapes that are represented within a lot of the hieroglyphs and things like that in Egypt, but also really embedded in the actual technology of the pyramids. It was a method of communication that was beyond the human mind, beyond— it was a life force transmission.

So it was doing something to you while you are understanding the context of what the hieroglyphics is trying to communicate. It's actually like having a physiological experience. And anybody will have this physiological experience, even if you don't understand the context?

There's no understanding involved.

Okay, so you just go there, stare at these things, and it reduces inflammation?

Yeah.

Is there anything on that online? Can we find something? Jamie, how dare you laugh at that? I, uh— But go deep, son! I did. Put on the waders. I tried everything and it said there's no link, but I'm looking harder again. Do you know of a good resource we could find a link? Link to something like this? Because I'd like to know how they measured the inflammation. I'm not opposed to believing that it's possible.

Just look up Ibrahim—

Ibrahim Karim.

Yeah.

Okay, it says— this is his quote. Uh, it says, when two energy fields are in resonance and exchange information, something happens after the resonance is over. The two systems do not go back to their original state. A sort of vibrational impregnation occurs, which means that part of the new information leaves an imprint on the energy system. Systems then are in constant evolution evolution through resonance or interaction. Well, that certainly seems to be what people are. Perfect. It's a perfect— that, that, that whole system is— that description is a perfect description of human beings.

I completely agree.

Which is why it's so important to be around positive people and happy people. It's like really good for you. Being around shitheads is terrible for you. Yeah, you know, and terrible for them too, because they're not attracting any nice people because— and then they're gonna continue that behavior. They're stuck. You know? But that's fascinating.

Are you contributing your brain to medical science? Have you?

Am I contributing it? Well, I don't know.

I think it'd be very interesting to study you.

I would be?

So there's a word that really captures the living force out of that quote from Ibrahim, and it's a word called "biosis." And so the word "biosis" means and refers to the interconnected relationships that make life possible. Your mind is one of the funnest things to watch, and that's why everybody watches, because you come in with a curiosity, which I think is the real key to being human. You looked at that and you immediately said that's what being human is, two energy fields that can impregnate each other.

Yeah.

This podcast has been a 16-year impregnation inspired by your curiosity.

Oh, it's impregnated me as well. It's not like I'm the one who—

That's my point.

Yeah.

That's my point is you have made yourself available to over and over again be impregnated. You are making your whole body system available to new information. And a lot of the people that are in here aren't like measured as the smartest people on the planet and they're not measured as the nicest people on the planet. You keep attracting to yourself the ones that are going to challenge your biology to stretch more, to grow more. You want to grow so much that you created this whole system for yourself. I'm intrigued by that soul. I'm intrigued by somebody that would magnetize 100 million people to themselves, not so that you can impress other people, but so you can receive that much information that Ibrahim is talking about.

Well, it's not intentional. It was never on purpose. Like, the podcast was just for fun. When we first started, I don't think we made money on it for years. It was just fun. It was just fun to do. And in the beginning, it was just talking with my friends. And then—

Why would that be separate from purpose?

Well, I mean, it was purposeful in that it was recreational and it was a community thing with our friends that we would enjoy it because we always enjoyed doing like morning radio together. We said it'd be fun. We can— the technology exists now. We can kind of do this on the internet. And then we had Graham Hancock on. On. So my friend Duncan and I sat down with Graham Hancock, which was— how many years ago was that? Was that 15 years ago? Yeah, it would have been 2011, I think. Probably like 15 years ago. So he was the first— I believe he was the first. It was either him or Anthony Bourdain were the first real guest. I think it was Graham. And all of a sudden now, because of this show, I can have people on and ask questions. And I had already read Fingerprints of the Gods, and I was a huge Graham Hancock fan. And all my friends that like had studied actual history in college were always very offended by my ideas that I would repeat from Grant Nightingale. That guy's a charlatan, shut the fuck up. And I'd be like, I think he's right, I think he's got some points.

So he was our first real guest, and then from then I realized that I could get guests, 'cause the numbers started getting more and more people were watching it, so I was like, oh, so now I can just ask all these, like I got Neil deGrasse Tyson on, I got all these different people on, I was like, this guy seems interesting, like, what does he do? Like, I had knifemakers on and I've had beekeepers on. It's just like, it's just to me, it's a crazy opportunity to talk to fascinating people. And I would love to do that even if it wasn't a job. If I knew that 3 or 4 times a week, even if it wasn't a job, no one ever watched it, and I could just have a conversation with an interesting person for a couple hours, just sitting across the table. So how did you start doing this? And just pick their brain and find out like, what is, what's their motivation? Like, what gets them excited? Why do they like that kind of music? Like, where, why'd you pick that up? You know, what fascinates you about that? Like, do you ever lose ambition?

Do you ever, like, what goes on in your head? And I think somewhere along the line, I've realized that I'm kind of like an antenna for all these other people. And that as long as it's pure in my mind, right? As long as I'm only talking to people that I'm actually interested in talking to. So there's no one who decides who is on the show but me. There's no executives that have discussions. There's no board meetings. There's nothing. There's nothing. It's my phone. And I just go, that guy seems cool. Like, or what is she talking about? That's nuts. Like, is that real? Oh my god, how did she figure that out? Come on in. And that's the whole way I've always done it. And I feel like as long as I just do it that way, then people are getting— they're getting a chance to experience it with me because I'm being— I'm just being me, right? And which is— I personally get great satisfaction out of watching people do things that they enjoy, even if I have no interest in those things. Like, if I see a guy who's, like, making cabinets, and he's, like, really into the polishing and the sanding, you can tell, like, this guy's work is— he's very proud of his work.

He makes those seams nice and tight and sands it all down, and I'm watching him polish it, and I'm watching him put the stain on. I'm like, "Wow, that guy made that with his hands." And he steps back, and he's polishing it with a microfiber cloth, and I love that. I love when people are into things. I love when people are fixing engines. I love when someone's really into painting. I love people being into things. So I'm an antenna for people that are really into things.

I think that's exactly what Ibrahim was just describing in that quote. Yeah. We are antenna, and we are receiving information all the time, and the reason why it's so exciting to be human is because our antenna has got a broader aperture to receive information than any other creature on Earth so far.

And than ever before, as far as we know.

On this planet at least.

Yeah, but the pyramids, I want to go back to that because I don't know if this is the smartest and the most advanced people have ever been. I don't think it is. I really don't. I think the pyramids are the perfect example of why we should question that, that narrative. You know, we want to put that in, that place into a nice, cute little box. And, you know, all due respect to traditional archaeologists, but you really can't. There's not, it's not physically possible. To put that place that supposedly was made 2500 BC. That's, you know, that's the— that's the guess. It's really kind of a guess because there's no—

doesn't carbon date well that way.

Yeah, there's no hieroglyphs at all about the construction of it. There's no— they don't show how they made it. They don't— they don't know what the fuck it was, and they don't know why it has so much erosion in certain areas. They don't know why it's been built on— there's other structures that are built on top of older structures. That are even more complex? Like, makes no sense. It makes no sense. It just makes no sense when you're moving enormous statues that are 1,000 tons. How? How'd you do that? How did you get that thing? How'd you move it 400 miles? What the fuck are you guys doing? You're doing something we can't do right now. As cocky as we want to be, we don't have machines to do that right now.. So what— why would we believe that they were primitive? Why would we believe that they were commensurate with the rest of what we think the world was 4,500 years ago? Because that's crazy. It makes no sense. That alone, just Egypt alone, it's like, what were those people in Africa doing? Because whatever the fuck they were doing, it's above and beyond anything anyone's doing right now.

2,300,000 stones that perfectly aligned to true north, south, east, and west. How?

Biology.

Biology.

It had to be a living system that would create something that intelligent. The reason why we can't build them today is we keep trying to invent machines to do our work. Biology is what did it. And Ibrahim, sitting there in Cairo, Egypt right now, will tell you the way that they built these things was through waveform and the antenna. And not just for receiving, transmission. That created the energy to create the pyramids was coming from bodies, not machines.

But they certainly had some machines because there's these core drills that they find that they, they don't understand how they could have ever had something that moved at those RPMs to make those kind of circles. That's drilling into this insanely hard granite. Like, there's some technology involved.

Water.

Water.

Biology. And water together. So biology is ultimately carbon and water. It is a massive energetic potential that survives and concentrates between the magic of carbon and water. I would love to show you a couple slides of where I think we are as humans because you just uncovered the most important reality is let's keep very strong anchor in the fact that human biology, we can call them humans, we can call them Egyptians, we can call them whatever we want but there was people of our size and our scale that were doing things on the planet very recently, 5,000, 10,000 years ago. Those Achuar have been doing their thing in the jungle for 40,000 years. So this is recent history. This isn't some like figment of our imagination that King Solomon's writing, you know, in that time. We have written history just after this time period, but there was an amnesia event. There was something that happened globally where we lost connection We lost the signal around 5,000 to 7,000 years ago globally. Peoples all over the Earth suddenly got disconnected from their intelligence, and we see this massive event of loss of life or disappearance of life.

So you have the Aztecs and Mayans, Incas. You got all these systems that had been thousands of years building incredibly complex underground labyrinths that go for tens of thousands of kilometers and things that we can't even wrap our heads around right now was being done all over the world, not just in Cairo, Egypt. The pyramids off the coast of Japan are way bigger than what was going on in Egypt. And so we had pyramids all over the freaking planet that were technologies that were concentrating energy. And I'm going to go back to my own lived experience here so we're not philosophically getting into any space that starts to sound woo-woo. I want to ground this back.

Too late. We're woo-woo, bro. We're on woo-woo main. We're on Main Street in Woo Woo Ville. We're running red lights, son. Let's go.

Let's go. That's my favorite thing to do. As long as I'm in a '55 Chevy behind the wheel.

I can tell you like running red lights in Woo Woo Ville. I want to bring you back because you said something and I have to understand what you were saying. And you said biology and water. So clearly they had tools, right? So clearly they're using a tool to make these cores out of the granite.

So I want to back up. I think we just need to contextualize life because we get into the risk of like starting to core down on that idea and that idea and that idea and we can't find our context. So if we contextualize this conversation, what life is, then we can get to pyramids. Then we can get to UFOs and UAPs and everything else that's going on right now that's starting to force us to be like, wait, we don't have the whole story. And so this is my favorite thing about being live right now is there's just too much evidence that the story that we've been taught in schools is correct. It's just falling apart now.

Yeah, it's falling apart.

That's exciting. But the reason why we have things rushing into this space as new solutions that are just distracting us from actually stepping into our full potency is because we still are not allowing context to come back. And so I would love to contextualize the conversation first.

Okay.

And then let's go down these roads.

Yeah, okay.

If you've got that first slide of mine, we can start at the most fundamental level of understanding what life is. And this took me, you know, 25 years of basic science laboratory work to finally get my mind clear and out of the way to what you said, be the antenna for the information. What is it trying to show us? And ultimately, when you look across these images across this top of the slide, we've got the sun up top. The sun is the most potent energetic thing that physics does. It's nuclear and fission and fusion, and these things we call stars, and there's roughly 10 billion stars per galaxy. We got somewhere around 2.5 trillion galaxies, so there's a lot of energy being pumped out in the universe by a sun, but that little innovation just to its right at the top is chlorophyll, and chlorophyll begins a process of concentration of light energy. And so this is where we start to see more light per cubic centimeter than nuclear fission and fusion can produce. They can then pass that information in the form of energy onto bacteria and fungi. The bacteria and fungi then support more green life and so we go from moss and, you know, slime molds to trees eventually and so there's this constant feedback loop of concentrations of energy.

The more energy per cubic centimeter you have, you have, the more opportunity you have for communication. The word "biosis," again, refers to the interconnected relationships that make life possible. If you've been in a long-term relationship before, like longer than a weekend, you got a sense of how much energy it takes to maintain a relationship. There's nothing you do in life that takes more energy than maintaining a family and your spouse and kids or whatever you got around you. Because communication is required for co-collaboration, co-creation. And so energy has to be concentrated at higher and higher, higher levels for life to do more and more and more complex things. A couple billion years ago on the planet, we have evidence that bacteria and fungi made their transition. So bacteria, single-celled organisms, suddenly gave an increase in concentration through an innovation of doing fermentation outside of the body. —so bacteria ferment carbohydrates and fats. They use a non-oxygen-related breakdown process to break carbon bonds. All of that sunlight is being stored in carbon, and so one carbon bonds to the next, storing a photon of electromagnetic energy between them. That's a carbon bond. So when you hear, you know, of a carbohydrate, that's a whole string of carbons that's storing sunlight.

A fatty acid, another long string of carbons holding sunlight. So the innovation of life was, can we store enough energy that it can be released in these exponential levels of energy per cubic centimeter? And the more that life innovated that process, the more complex life got. So bacteria, single-celled organisms, can't really collaborate, but they can build an ecosystem of nutrients. Fungi figured out that they could actually get way more fermentation if they exuded the enzymes out of their body to make the whole nature around them the stomach. And so they outsourced the fermentation process to the soil around them, and suddenly there was so much more energy available, so they started to build whole networks of single-celled organisms that were now collaborating. We call these hyphae and pseudohyphae, the mycelial network of the fungal kingdom. They can go for miles, and they're still single-celled organisms, but they're collaborating now because they have so much more energy because they're doing all that fermentation outside the body. So they're not limited to what can be done inside the cell. The next innovation that just blew everything out was the innovation of mitochondria. So that little mitochondria represented up in that glowing cell right above the baby there.

Mitochondria are small bacteria that live inside human cells. The average human cell has 200 mitochondria. A neuron has 2,000 mitochondria in its neural head. 2,000 of those little bacteria living inside of a human cell, and that's actually two microbes put into one. So it's a little tiny methane-producing bacterium that was swallowed by an archaea, a big bacteria, and they started collaborating in a big innovation that was respiratory energy production. So we suddenly added oxygen and hydrogen to the process that used to be fermentation. So now we have respiratory energy production in the form of mitochondria, and that was a 10x improvement in energy, light energy per cubic centimeter, and then we suddenly got multicellular life. And so it was protozoa into parasites into nematodes into worms into, you know, everything we have. So life has been stacking in complexity with direct relationship of how much energy per cubic centimeter exists there. The energy is predicting the outcome. It's not some organism comes along and says, well, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna take over because I'm smarter and more connected. Interconnected. Every time we've seen an innovation in nature, it's because preceding that moment, there was an innovation in increasing the amount of biosis, the amount of interconnected relationships inside a single organism.

Eventually you get to a human. A human has more life within it than any other niche of nature of this planet— Amazon jungle, coral reefs, any other mammal. The human colon and the body systems around it contain more biodiversity, more interconnected relationships than any other system on the planet. This is more biosis, more life, more energy per cubic centimeter. And what we get to start to recognize now, and as our neurobiology of the gut starts to work through our, our levels of understanding, we're starting to realize there is no such thing as human intelligence. There's a human brain that is an antenna for all of nature to speak to. And so we have the most complicated antenna system of any organism on Earth. And just 10 minutes ago you sat there saying, "You know, I think I'm actually an antenna." So this is the process that takes to great life, and 70 years ago we started a new era of humanity called the antibiotic era, and it innovated with penicillin in the 1940s, but then it became herbicides and pesticides and took us into a massive journey of destroying biosis. The word antibiotic is truth in advertising.

To be antibiosis, to be antibiotic, is to be against, to disrupt, to destroy the interconnected relationships that make life possible. And so if this is right, which I don't expect you to believe yet, but if this is right, I should be able to map to you the exact way in which we've landed at this moment, which is at the crippled point of human biology globally, chronic disease epidemics, infertility threatening the very survival of our species. So I'm going to take you through the last 50 years. And look at the human race just as a metabolic framework, and we'll see if we can make some sense out of it. Okay, let's do it.

I like it. It is very fascinating that we've gotten to where we are right now and that we know as much as we know, and yet we still are doing things like extensive use of pesticides and herbicides, and even when they're not necessary, like the drying of wheat wheat with it, which is crazy. Like, you don't— you're not even using it for its intended purpose. Using it as a desiccator so you could dry out the wheat and process it quicker. What the fuck are you doing? And then you're poisoning people unnecessarily because of this.

See, this is why I love being with you, Joe, is because like you say the things that I wish I would be able to say. That's all I really wanted to tell the EPA when I testified in front of the government.

It's so crazy. We're crazy. Well, someone probably should have someone like Someone like me do it. I'm not the guy, but someone should say it that way because that's really what it is. Like, you're poisoning people. And the really nutty thing is the reason why they didn't do the ban on glyphosate, because it would have a devastating impact on our, our society, on our economy, because all these businesses would close and go under and they would lose billions and billions of dollars. Think of that. Think of where we are right now, where our food supply relies on poison to function. If we take the poison out, it can't function. I don't know what to tell you, but there's only one way to do it. We have to poison you. That is really wild that anybody would accept that. I mean, you could have all your fucking lobbyists. Everyone sits in front of those microphones with notes, and they, they all have some preposterous way of framing it, but that's really what it is. You're saying the food supply relies on poison, and if we take away the poison, we'll fall apart.

It's actually true. That's crazy. But let me show you why. Because it's not actually the food system that's about to fall apart, it's the medical system. And so the thing that relies on chemical food is not the money we're making from food systems, the money we're making from the medical system.

Well, isn't it both? Isn't it? It's got to be both. It's got to be both. Because I know for a fact the pesticide manufacturers, they work very hard to make sure that the politicians are very happy. And—

Biosis, interconnected relationships that make life possible. And so when— Bayer owns Monsanto, right? Yeah, so Bayer purchased that recently and they've been at this for a long, long time. Bayer started to investigate the impact of interconnected relationships on human biology and fertility in the 1940s. We call it World War II and concentration camps, but that's where the studies really started getting set up was understanding the relationship between microbiome the output products, amino acids specifically, that support human life.

So Bayer was involved in the concentration camps?

They were bought by a company called FK Pharmaceuticals in Germany in the 1930s, and then they got spun back out as Bayer after the war with the collapse of the Third Reich. But, you know, and they're hardly alone in this. Companies all over the world at the time were studying these interconnected relationships because there was a lot of progress being made in the 1930s and '40s all the way back to the 1800s of understanding that humans are an expression of a complex ecosystem. They're not just this isolated system. And so it was Louis Pasteur who kind of won the argument of nature's against us, germs are attacking us, all of that. So that really kind of doubled down on this belief that nature is opposed to humans and we have to survive by sterilizing our environment. So pasteurization is rooted in his name, Louis Pasteur. Right, right. And so we start pasteurizing with the idea that if there's any life inside of what we're consuming, it could compete with the human life, not realizing—

That is one of the nuttiest things that they've passed on society, that they've passed this idea that if you don't homogenize and pasteurize your milk, that you're in danger. And I don't know if you've ever seen some of these gaslighting articles, but some lady, I wish I saved it, somebody, made a great TikTok about it today, or an Instagram Reel, where she was explaining relative risk versus actual risk and how these articles are framed to show you like, oh my God, this is so dangerous. And that people who drink raw milk are like 860% more likely to get sick. But it's like versus people who drink homogenized milk. Well, how many people get sick off milk? And then you find the actual number, and it's like, like 1,300 a year or something like that. I forget what it was, 13,000 a year feel bad because they drank bad milk. And out of those, how many of those were drinking raw milk? Well, it was like more likely that it was raw, but so then it's still only a few thousand people.

By the time you find somebody that actually got harmed by it, you're down to 6 people, you know. Exactly.

So yeah, which is like one of those really nutty things that people do. They got— instead of saying This is what's dangerous about raw milk. Don't drink it when it's spoiled. Don't drink it— but also, that's yogurt. That's yogurt. And you should have yogurt because it's important to have good acidophilus and all the cultures, the live cultures. It's probiotics. But don't drink raw milk because raw milk, you'll die. I've never heard of a fucking single person who drank raw milk who died. I had a joke about it in my act a long time ago, like You get— if milk takes you out, like, my grandfather ate cigarettes and he lived to be 1,000. That was the joke. But it was like, milk took you out, you fucking pussy. Like, it's not— no one's dying from milk. Shut the fuck up. There's, you know, people get food poisoning. It happens a lot. And one of the things it is, is it's runoff from industrialized farms that get into people's vegetables. It's a lot of vegetables, a lot of salads. People get food poisoning from salads, unfortunately.

Yeah, there was an interesting project that was put into motion around, I think it was late teens, when the US government suddenly realized, oh my gosh, terrorists could attack us through salad bars. They could poison these salad bars so easily and we could just, you know, thousands of people could die.

Is that why they put the sneeze guard up?

Those have been long deployed. That's an ancient technology, the sneeze guard. Ancient technology. This is so ridiculous. Even the ancient Egyptians used those, I'm pretty sure. But you've got this situation where they went out to see, like, tests, like, what happened if you put salmonella in these things and everything else. The conclusion of the whole study 2 years later is it'd be impossible to make salad bars any more toxic than they already are. What is the— Every pathogen you've ever heard of is already there.

Oh, for sure. As soon as you let a bunch of people touch stuff, and most people use their fingers They're gross. What is a salad the mo— what is the thing that people get food sickness off the most? What's the, what's the highest percentage in terms of like what kind of food? Yeah, probably like oysters, right? Like raw oysters or something. It's greens.

I don't think it's greens. You see what your, your—

but if it is, if it is salad, it's not the actual greens itself. It's the toxic shit. It's, it's actual shit. That gets on them, and then it's also like whatever they're using.

It's the irrigation of the lettuces that are the problem. We create artificial water systems that start to brew these things. But I think, you know, if we back up for a second, like we're hitting on something so exciting here is that if we can understand that life is a concentration of light energy, we can start to understand everything, and we can start to innovate for restoring our relationship to nature. We can become a keystone species again. I want to take a quick look at the last 50 years of antibiotic use, to your point, herbicides and pesticides, this thing that we're highly dependent on as an economy.

100%, but we can't leave people hanging, so let's find out what's the actual— I just put it in perplexity. Yeah, I said what food causes the most food poisoning, and the answer is just foods that are contaminated. Raw, undercooked poultry, that makes sense. Ground beef, are there undercooked meats, common link? To toxin-producing E. coli, leafy greens and other raw vegetables. So they don't have like a percentage. Raw or undercooked shellfish, raw or undercooked eggs, ultra unpasteurized milk and soft cheeses. Yeah, those are dangerous, serious— look, serious pathogens like Listeria and Salmonella. Okay. So there's no, no data that shows exactly what people get sick the most from. So your point, go back to where you wanted to go from. So you talked about the herbicides and pesticides.

So this started with the Green Revolution in the 1960s where we started to believe that the Midwest could start to feed the world. We were gonna eliminate hunger by chemical farming. So I want to repeat that sentence. We decided we're gonna eliminate hunger by chemical farming.

And that was only the 1950s.

50s is where we really took off with it because what happened— That's crazy. At the end of World War II, we had a massive glut of oil, and so we had revved up the whole global oil and fossil fuel machine to supply the global war machine. We had planes, tanks everywhere the first time. World War II ends, suddenly there's an enormous overload of oil, and oil companies need a new revenue source. This had begun in the 1905, '10 phase with the Rockefellers, largest oil-producing families in the world, suddenly realized, wait a second, there's— these carbon molecules can be reinvented into something much more valuable. And so we can sell a gallon of oil for, you know, 22 cents back then, or we can take those and start to break out chemical— through chemical processing, carbon molecules that can start to affect biology. And so we could start making drugs that affect these things. And so the Flexner Report comes out in 1910 that basically demonizes and, you know, laughs out herbalism and, you know, 10,000 years of traditional medicine and says that it's this new technology of small carbon molecules that's the future of— it's the only advanced form of medical care.

And so we started into this belief that it was going to be chemical derivatives of fossil fuels that were not going to just treat diseases, but they were also going to grow our crops. —did this, right? Rockefellers funded the Flexner Report, which was Dr. Flexner's big report that said, "Here's the future and here's kind of—" And he had massive investments in oil. Rockefeller built the whole system. So he built Standard Oil that would then get broken up through the monopolies into ExxonMobil and the rest, Shell, et cetera. So you've got the situation where it's lived through to today and so something like— the chemotherapies that were around. There's one called vincristine, which is a classic chemotherapy used for a whole host of common cancers. And vincristine is a natural compound derived from life, and so it's biologically made by algae and things like this. And so it's similar to oil where it's just a carbon substrate, but it's still in its living form, but it's creating this strange carbon molecule called vincristine. So it's made in algae. It's present in algae. Instead of saying, "Hey, here's a biologic system that we should look at, like maybe this should be in our soil systems.

Maybe we should be growing food that had this therapeutic effect, this anti-cancer effect in it." Instead they said, "No, no, no, let's separate the algae from nature and let's create huge vats of this and we will chemically extract the vincristine." Vincristine today is sold for $28,000 a gram. And so the same thing was done with oil. We can take something that's worth 20 cents and we can turn it into $28,000 if we manipulate these molecules and then make a story of this treats a disease that's attacking humanity. And so that's how the antibiotic, anti-cancer, anti-diabetes, anti-obesity, anti-everything has come about is let's invent chemicals that solve a problem that doesn't even really exist. And so this is where we start to slip into this massive abstraction of we get so good at solving problems that shouldn't even exist or maybe don't even exist. And so this was the slippery slope that we set into in 1910s that then accelerated like anything in the 1950s. So the 1950s, you'll remember we had penicillin late— late World War II. So penicillin was the first direct antibiotic and it was a revolution. It was so exciting. So kids in the 1940s and '50s were getting an injection in their butt for anything, common cold, sneeze, red eyes, penicillin.

So we were giving out these antibiotics thinking, well, we're gonna sterilize humans finally, and humans are once sterile, 'cause Louis Pasteur's late 1800s telling us germs were the only thing that was really killing humans. If we eliminate germs, humans are gonna just thrive. And so the idea that we now had antibiotics, anti, you know, small things that aren't human, we would finally become healthy again.

Right, but if people did get infected with syphilis back then, and antibiotics like penicillin would cure them. It would—

so it would eliminate the symptom of syphilis, but syphilis wasn't a disease. Syphilis was a symptom of a degradation of healthy biologic interconnected relationships, and that was being argued back then in the late 1800s, arguing with Pasteur over decades of really well-published stuff. You've got—

So can I stop you there? So you're saying that the people got syphilis because their system was compromised. Not because syphilis is particularly dangerous. So did some people not get syphilis that were alive back then that were in contact with it? I mean, how contagious was it? And it— is it because their bodies were unhealthy and their immune systems weren't functioning correctly because they're malnourished, because they didn't get enough nutrients?

Like, what exactly?

Yeah, so because a lot of it was the aristocracy, like, you would think they're the most well-fed.

They're the most separated from nature. —That too, right? —They're the ones that aren't gardening. They're the ones that aren't out in the back. They're the ones that are separated from nature and have technology called convenience pushed around them on many, many, many layers. So they're the ones not touching the soil. They're the ones not making the bricks. They're the ones not building the houses. —They were also drinking a lot and partying. —Because they weren't feeling anything. So they went after chemicals to feel something. Right. And this is where I think this whole, you know, give everybody half a million dollars and they'll be happy happy. No. It's going to isolate them further. They're going to numb them down and all it's going to create is drug addiction on the highest levels we have ever seen it.

If they function the way people function today, but that was my point is if we educate children to not be in pursuit of money but instead think of money as something that provides you with food and shelter and basic needs and you don't have to worry about any of that stuff anymore. Now what you need to do is worry about being a person, worry about finding something that's fascinating. Get an education just for your own sake of fueling your curiosity. You know, learn things, grow, pick projects, do things you want to do, start taking— learning a musical instrument, do something that you find fascinating because you don't have to spend your time just working anymore. Isn't that possible?

You just said a word that I want to go back to that's so important. You said Here's enough money to provide you food, shelter, and anything else you need. Yeah. Does money really provide food, shelter, or does nature provide it?

Well, you use nature to make a house. Like, cement doesn't exist in a vacuum.

The Achuar tribe have been building their houses for 40,000 years. Right. No money. They've literally not had money.

Right, but they live in the jungle, right? If you live in Arizona, you better have a fucking house. You better have air conditioning too. Have you been—

have you visited the Aboriginal brothers down in Australia? It's every bit as hot and brutal as— no houses for 40,000 years. Right. Absolutely fine without money. Eee, that's not ideal.

It's not ideal to be outside when it's 110 degrees and you're just suffering. I'm sure if those people had air conditioning, they'd go, "Ooh, this is way better." That's exactly what happened.

They got air conditioning and then what happened? Give them air conditioning, they come out of nature. Yeah, but always?

I mean, it's the only way? Like, people are so dumb they can't be educated to the fact that there's a bunch of things that you have to satisfy?

It's not intelligence, it's comfort. Comfort. It's subconscious.

Right, but can't you teach people that they shouldn't just seek comfort? Because I learned that. People can learn that. Like, everybody is like naturally inclined to seek comfort, but if you do that too much, you'll just you become soft and you atrophy and you get bored, depressed. And that's a real problem with people. We need tasks. We are task-oriented, goal-oriented creatures. We like stuff. We like to do things. We like to do puzzles. We like to play games. We're fascinated.

So I've been building stuff since I was a kid.

Yeah, people love building stuff.

I had the best life ever because I was born poor. And so I grew up in government housing in Colorado. 1973, the Vietnam War was just ending, and a bunch of the Hmong people of Cambodia were displaced because of Agent Orange, a chemical that is immediately cousin to glyphosate, the chemical we're talking about. Is it really?

Agent Orange is a cousin?

They're the same class. They're both organophosphate molecules, and so I'll get into that story a little later, but nonetheless, these peoples of the Hmong were displaced because we dumped it all over Cambodia and North Vietnam to to make bare the Ho Chi Minh Trail so we could from the air see our enemy and kill more people. We turned an entire jungle system into a complete moonscape. Not a single living life form left after 25 years of Agent Orange.

If you go back there right now, it's still like that? No.

It is fully recovered because biology has been allowed to return. We created so much disease in that place that humans were displaced. As soon as humans step out of their— the kind of extractive relationship —nature rushes back.

So the aged orange, it's not like a permanent chemical that stays in the soil?

There's no such thing as a permanent chemical. They can stay— once biology— Forever chemicals?

Those forever chemicals?

Forever chemicals are measured without life. If you put biology back in a system, it will heal itself, period. And that's my promise to humanity, that everything is perfect. The stress that we're putting on this planet right now with these herbicides, pesticides, antibiotics, everything we're doing right now, I want to keep this in the context of everything is perfect. Perfect. I'm going to keep drilling this home until we get there, but it's going to be an interesting journey because first we have to look at how much suffering have we created first to understand then why would we create suffering and why would that be perfect, but we'll get there. But I think we need to back up to people's lived experience right now. 1973, we have the end of a world war, war really, this economic drain. Vietnam War was this massive drain on economic systems. Disrupted all kinds of things, and then suddenly it's over, and a little company called Monsanto that was producing Agent Orange needed a new economy, and so they repurposed themselves into chemical cleaner for industrial pipes, and they bought a patent from a Japanese inventor who put this patent in the late 1950s for something called glyphosate, bought that patent in 1974, and they were using it to clean industrial pipes 'cause it has an amazing ability to to grab minerals and pull it out of circulation.

So they were dumping lots of this down these clogged, you know, pipes of manufacturing facilities and like, it would clean the pipes out beautifully. But the problem was as soon as the effluent got out into the river, it would kill all the fish and everything else. And so it was clearly not gonna get past any environmental protection. So they needed a different purpose for this stuff at lower concentrations. And so they repatented in 1976 as a weed killer. And rolled it out as Roundup, as, you know, which would become the most successful weed killer in history. But this molecule had been already in use, and this organophosphate family of molecules had always already been killing life, you know, throughout Cambodia and Vietnam. Those people got displaced, and I grew up with them in Boulder, Colorado, in government housing. And those Hmong people showed us something of biology as they're the most poisoned, you know, peoples on the planet., and they showed no metabolic collapse. They showed no decline in health. They didn't have explosion of cancer or anything else. They should have because we know that Agent Orange causes cancer. And they showed me as young as I was at the time, 3, 4 years old growing up with these Hmong people in gardens, and these Cambodian women were sitting, squatting in the middle of their 10-foot plots that they were given as part of our Section 8 government housing.

And they would sit and tell a story, stay human connected. The receivers were on, the antennas were open. They're telling story while they're squatting barefoot in soil systems and the biology is restoring their bodies, cleaning their bodies. I would find that out 35 years later studying glyphosate and human biology, but this is what I loved is that I had a lived experience of peoples that had been radically poisoned but had stayed in touch with the land. And because they were an extension of the planet, they didn't show disease.

'Cause these are the people that left, though. I mean, the people that were still there in Cambodia and in Laos and, like, all the areas where they used Agent Orange, didn't they have a high concentration of cancer, the people that lived there? Yeah, so—

and that's largely 'cause they got displaced to concentration camp-type environments where they were separated from nature. So if you don't stay connected to nature, then toxicity shows up, cancer shows up, all these things. Things. A good example of this is Chernobyl. So what do you mean—

but the people that lived in the villages where Agent Orange— as long as they stayed close to nature, you're saying that they were fine from Agent Orange?

In this case, there were no villages left. We literally turned it into a moonscape. So they were fully refugee status, divorced. They didn't have land to go back to for 30 years.

But there were people that stayed that were close to where that Agent Orange stuff was dumped. That lived that did get cancer, right?

Yeah, and the ones with the highest cancer were the US military soldiers. And so the people that were most separate from nature were gonna show the highest rates of cancer. And so you have US military that are eating canned food in MREs, you know, half a world away, they're gonna show an immediate increase, and that's why Agent Orange couldn't be repurposed is 'cause it got such a bad rap on—

High anxiety, you're in a war, you don't want to You don't want to be there.

You're isolated socially. Probably doing a lot of drugs. Psychologically, yeah. Yeah. So you've reached a stress level because of your separation from your own personal, natural connected biosis of a family and a community and your garden and all these things. So as we get further from nature, we get more vulnerable and then toxins become a real crisis for biology. So biology in isolation will have huge consequences to poisoning. A connected biologic system sees poison as a stressor that will make it stronger, not weaker.

When you're communicating with these people, especially like people that live in these indigenous cultures, when you— do they experience infections? Do they have like— do they get the flu? Does anything go through them that's in their own body, not something that's introduced by other people? Like we know that that wiped out 90% of Native Americans is disease that came from Europe. It's a story that's told.

I'm not sure that we have the greatest evidence of that. That story has been played a lot. I think it's also possible that we just killed a lot of people.

Well, we certainly did that as well.

We killed a lot of people, but I think that what's not understood was the breaking of their relationship to their natural system. And so they may have had dysentery and died of infectious diseases, but not until we displaced them from their gardens, displaced them from their land and all that. We had to break their relationship to nature if they were going to get get a bowel infection that was causing a problem. I've just seen too many examples of connected biological systems that just cannot become diseased. A connected system and again, let me turn to Chernobyl for a moment because it's a pretty rad example of this. Largest nuclear event, nuclear disaster that's ever been created in human history maybe since— maybe the Japan one is now exceeding it, but Chernobyl was 30 years ago. It was only 1976 or something like that. Chernobyl happens, huge nuclear waste dump into soil systems throughout the Siberian region there, and we have the immediate movement of humans out of the region out of fear of cancer. And sure enough, all the humans that were in touch with that system, huge rates of thyroid cancer, renal disease, all kinds of things, you know, occurred.

Meanwhile, those soils are primarily inhabited by voles.— a small little mouse-like creature that lives under the ground, looks halfway across a field mouse and a mole. Those tiny little creatures have been eating the most radioactive soils on the planet for the last 30, 40 years. No, it's almost 50 years now. And so that 50 years of eating radioactive material, they're now radioactive. So when you put a Geiger counter up next to one of those voles, it's not beep, beep, beep, beep. It's just a continuous hum. And so these are the most radioactive creatures on Earth.— not a single case of pup deformities, not a— no collapse of fertility. In fact, the vole populations are thriving. The predator to the vole in Chernobyl is the wolf, and the Siberian wolf has absolutely quadrupled its population. No birth defects, no cancer, no consequence to eating the voles that are highly radioactive. And so these are the best examples of when a system, when a keystone species or otherwise is connected to its nature, she will never allow an injury to occur that she doesn't allow, already have a solution for. And so at the microbiome level, we now know how these wolves and bulls are surviving is they upregulate Pseudomonas.

And Pseudomonas has this amazing, it's a bacteria that actually, if you look through all those food poisoning lists of like, what's going to kill you on the E. coli and the Pseudomonas. Pseudomonas is one of the most feared bacteria in a hospital, for example. Turns out Pseudomonas thrive on radioactive material. They digest it, turn it into usable and safer products and all of this. And so the microbiome is there living in the voles, constantly converting and updating its physiology so it's repairing at a faster rate than it's being injured. And I'll show you what this looks like in a lab too in a moment, but I want you to hold that thought of there's nature's— every organism has a rate of repair and a rate of injury. And as long as the rate of repair is slightly faster than the rate of injury, it never gets a disease. You can ramp up that injury rate and if nature stays interconnected, your rate of repair simply steps up to its right capacity. And so this is that classic adage, "If it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger." A biology— that's practicing a relationship of biosis, the interconnected relationships that make health and life possible.

A biotic creature will always have the resources if from nature rather than from money. Money's never gonna provide you biosis. Nature's always gonna provide you the biotic capacity to overcome any toxicity that gets streamed up, planetary or otherwise. The planet's been making horrible toxins forever. The sulfuric acid pools that dominated this planet's surface Biology came right past all of that. Biology grew up in it. Biology has no problem with chemistry because of its phenomenon of light concentration of energy, more energy per cubic centimeter than anything else in the cosmos. Life is this churning machine of iteration, repair, regeneration, iteration, repair, regeneration, and every time it does that, it has this tendency to make new iterations of itself to become more biodiverse. New species are formed, new imagination of nature. And pretty soon you have a planet Earth that's teeming with so much unbelievable life. And finally, a container that can hold its maximum concentration of information and light energy is created, and that's a human. And so we've got this container that's holding billions of years of stress. The result of stress when connected to nature is more life force, more intelligence, more beauty. And so I loved what you said earlier because it's very important.

There's a chapter in my book that's looking at this kind of neo-spiritualism of the utopia you mentioned and you kind of call BS from the beginning on that. You're like, "Humans have never done utopian things. Humans are part of the stress mechanism of the planet. I'm convinced of it because what we do all the time is we stress the system. We finally invented airplanes and the first thing we did was try to jump out of them." Like we just like stress. We like the discomfort of pushing the envelope. And I think we live on a planet in the middle of a universe that loves the same thing. It loves the stress of it. It loves the friction of possibility. It loves death because immediately there's rebirth. And every time there's a death, there's more opportunity for new creation, new imagination. And so when I say everything is perfect, it's literal. It means everything is reimagining itself all the time. And if humans do go extinct in these coming decades, That's part of a beautiful journey of life going, iterating, iterating, iterating, iterating. There's a moment, though, with every hospice patient where you suddenly get to see life return.

And sometimes they choose more life in the human body, and sometimes they're like, "I'm gone. I— that's where I belong over there. I have a next thing." I've been by so many near-death experiences, I can't even count them anymore. But every time somebody dips across the veil of the human ego and the fiber of sensory systems here. They see a universe that's so interconnected and has got absolutely nothing to do with a human mind and its perception and its effort to explain the universe. It has nothing to do with this. It's a full-body experience. It is that antenna going wide open and being like, "This is what it is." And I can't— It's the one thing I wish I could do and I've never been able to do is just help humans feel that. If you could feel what it felt like when somebody hasn't even come back to the point where they can tell you the near-death experience, but you're just standing there in witness to them and their antennae goes blowing wide open and you can feel what is in the field at that moment. There is nothing that compares to it. Plant medicine, peak experiences, breathwork, cold plunge, hot plunge, take your body through any stress, you will not experience the amount of energetic information that comes through at that moment to that human antenna that's still biologically connected to Earth, but is perceiving the whole story.

That's the end of addiction. If you could feel that, there would be no more addiction on this planet because addiction is the necessary behavior of an organism that believes itself to be abandoned by its infinite reality. Humans believed ourselves to be abandoned by nature, and we put it right in our definition. You can probably pull it up, Oxford English Dictionary. Nature is everything in the firmament of the earth, minerals, plants, animals, as opposed to humans or anything humans have made. Not only do we write ourselves out of nature, we put ourselves in opposition to nature as opposed to humans or anything humans have made.

That's the Oxford Dictionary's definition of nature?

Nature. Really? And so as you start to think about this, like, that's the whole story is when we start to lose the antenna, when we started dulling down the receptor and we started planting mental constructs, money is where, things come from. No. Money has never birthed anything. Women birth life. Money does not. Biology is self-perpetuating, always for more beauty, more intelligence. Anytime we create an abstract system and say biology needs that, biology— living people need money. Living people need IV drips of vitamin C. Living humans need peptides injected. It is the biggest miss in the cosmos is humans that don't realize that we are the best antennas that have been made on this planet so far. If we begin to use those, we will not do utopia. We'll experience opportunities for stress that doesn't harm another individual, and this is the characteristic of a sovereign reality where everything is upleveling all of the time. And something that gives up its life is not killed. It's literally giving its life to the next. And so when you look at predation, you're thinking of the lion eating the antelope. If you spend enough time with these indigenous groups, they can tell you which antelope is going to give itself to the lion.

It's not because it's weak or it's broken. There's a relationship they can feel. Between the predator and the prey. It's interesting that we call them prey. Who's preying in this situation? Who's about to go into an ascension process? Is it the antelope or the lion? Maybe both. But there's a relationship there in our indigenous understanding. This is where sacred hunting comes in. Sacred hunting never went out to kill anything. It came to receive more. So if you go out in nature with the attitude of, "I am going to receive the abundance of nature," for my peoples, for my family, for my thing. And you see what nature's gonna offer you. And this is the hunter-gatherer tribes in spades here. But this is the change of mindset that we've gotta go back to is everything is sacred, everything is sovereign. And when we sit back into that relaxed relationship where we never got kicked out of nature, everything, our food, our shelter, our livelihoods are gonna come from nature, not money. We make that subtle shift of trusting this planet again. Then we start turning on the antenna. And then our intelligence comes back on. And then our memory comes back on.

And we don't have to sit around being like, "I wonder how those pyramids got built." We will be connected to that information because it's all still here.

I want to go back to that, but I want to push back on this idea that people can survive plague if they don't have immunity to it? Because one of the best examples where that seems to have wiped out an entire civilization is all these sites they keep finding in the Amazon. When you read about the Lost City of Z, you read about the initial European explorers who made their way into the Amazon, they found this thriving civilization, they went back 200 years ago— 200 years later, there's nothing. And the predominant theory is that they brought with them smallpox and a bunch of other diseases, and they spread like wildfire to a bunch of people that didn't have immunity to it, and they died. Who's living more in harmony with nature than those people that were living in the Amazon? I mean, they were living in complete harmony with nature. They just didn't have the immunity to deal with European diseases.

So you're telling me a story that I cannot answer because the story is abstract itself. And so— How so? Because you're painting a picture, A, that somebody knows that there was smallpox that went across those peoples.

Well, we know there was smallpox and we know that smallpox did most certainly wipe out a lot of Native Americans as well as a lot of European settlers. Was it because they were malnourished? That's certainly possible. I mean, that's certainly a factor.

I guess I would just say when. When do we have evidence that they started dying of smallpox? And I think that's after we displaced them. From their tribal lands after we displaced them from their connected ecologies.

That's hard to say because it seems like there's a lot of evidence that it spread through tribes and even tribes that were on their own, that there was a real problem. But the other question is it wasn't always bountiful wherever Native Americans were and there was times where they had serious famine and they didn't have food sources that were were nutritious and they did their best to stay alive. It wasn't always like, "Look at all the deer and all the fish and we have fruits and vegetables everywhere. We're fine." No, there was certainly times where these nomadic people ran into a bad situation and if you introduce a new disease, a novel disease that they don't have an immunity to during that time, that could most certainly wipe them out despite the fact the fact that they're living in nature. They don't have the resources that's required to keep a biological system perfectly functioning and healthy. They're struggling. They're barely getting by. I could totally see how people like that, you know, we like to think that, you know, everybody that lived in North America before the Europeans came had it nailed. They lived perfectly.

Tribal hunter-gatherer people that are nomadic, like sometimes you run into a bad place. Sometimes you're, you know, you're in an area that has no game. That's just how it goes. You have a bunch of mouths to feed and things go wrong. And if they're in that kind of a situation, they catch smallpox, they're going to be compromised. Their immune system will be compromised. Completely makes sense. And there was widespread contact with these diseases that came from these Europeans who also weren't very healthy and came over here on boats. That had— that's got to be fucking terrible for you. You're on a boat for 3 months, what kind of food are you eating? And then you get here and you're spreading all your junk to all these other people that have no idea what that is. I think you're—

now you're on the butt end of it. And so it was less about the condition of the people that were native to this land, it was more about the divorce of the people that were incoming from nature. And so those— those settlers or those industrial colonists who were coming over from Spain or otherwise, it was their radical divorce for thousands of years of innovations of clothing and horses and all these different layers of technology that interrupted their food systems and their relationship to nature. So they were coming over here sick. I agree with that. And it's likely that that may have been more of the imprint, was less of an infection disease and more of a dissonant imbalance. And so I think what we now know about the gut microbiome is that it has an immediate feedback loop to stress signals, cortisol specifically. And so if you're a Spanish, you know, colonial army that shows up with weapons that have never been seen before, and you've got, you know, this marauding belief that you're separate from nature, and so you need to go steal as much as possible because you don't have enough, and so that's That's the downstream of the abandonment disorder of humanity is scarcity mentality, which then breeds empire rise and fall and colonialism and ownership models and all of this.

And so you come over with this marauding new species. Let's think of it as a new species because up until this point, none of the indigenous cultures here saw themselves as separate from nature. All of their, you know, 40,000 years of traditional practice where we are integrated in nature, we are an element between the cosmos and the earth. Earth. We sit in this fine little beautiful zone between heaven and earth, and this is human. This is the experience of being an antenna that's connected to this cosmos, connected to planet Earth.

And a great example of that is Aztec architecture that literally mirrors the cosmos.

Mirrors the cosmos, as did the Egyptians. And so all of them were building these pyramids in 13-degree angles, just like Orion's Belt. And so you've got, you know, Pleiadian star clusters lasered into the stones in Peru in And the temples that are built underground there, like crazy stuff. Because we were antenna to the universe and we were antenna to the earth. We sat feeling them both. That's the magic of being human is you can feel both. This is a very magical moment. And my patients that are dying and are letting go of these bodies, they're certainly cosmic in scale. They'll tell you exactly which planets they go to and how they expand into the universe, become stars, all kinds of crazy stuff in their near-death experiences. But they're not on Earth at that moment. So I think this wonderful moment of being an antenna, a biological antenna, not the physics of a soul, you know, some identity that sits outside of biologic space-time, but an antenna that's now biologically connected to more energy per cubic centimeter than it will ever feel because the cosmos doesn't do energy as well as life. And so you can— a sun doesn't do as much concentrated energy as life.

And so this is this precious moment. And so you imagine these people for tens of thousands of years designing, expressing these incredible technologies, the pyramids and space travel and everything else that they're doing at this time, unbelievable connectivity. And then along comes a species that look human, except they think they don't belong to Earth. They don't think— they think they got abandoned. The whole kicked out of the garden thing has played itself out. And they come in with this killing mentality that is different than the prey and predator relationship that peoples had with each other, I'm sure, too. It wasn't just lions and antelopes. There was a predation between humans from our beginning, too. We are a natural system. We live, we die, we rebirth, we redeath. When our antennas are wide open, we understand the relationship and the flow of life as it goes through its ascension process. But here comes this species that is fundamentally opposed to life. It is antibiotic in its behavioral relationship to Earth. The stress that would have been felt in the neurologic system from peoples that had been interconnected, understanding space and having anything we're talking about, what they would have felt in that time would have, I think, been the infectious disease.

Just like the boxed apple juice that came along to break the relationship of 40,000 years of abundance for the Achuar tribe and now put them in poverty, The same thing could happen energetically at the spiritual or psycho-spiritual or psycho-awareness. That antenna could suddenly break if suddenly you felt like you were actually in danger. And isn't that what we feel when we feel a sociopath in our presence? Don't we suddenly viscerally feel something like, "This is actually dangerous"? Other people can be mean, they can be assholes, but they're not— it's that antenna goes up. And so imagine a whole civilization feeling for the most— this foreign object coming at them, and it's shooting them, and it's killing them, and it's tearing up their gardens, and it's got horses which have never been seen on this continent, the cortisol level goes berserk, immune system shuts down, microbiome in the gut collapses, and suddenly they are experiencing diseases of the West not because the pathogens were bad, not because some element of nature suddenly leapt across the ocean and attacked them, but because they went out of relationship, the antenna shut down, they lost the context of an interconnected biosis relationship with heaven and earth.

I think that's where we start to really see honestly what was happening at that time. It was fear that was bringing— it was guilt, shame of being kicked out of nature. It was energetic signals that were breaking the informational stream, the field of connectivity that humans were probably suspended into that time.

But even before the Europeans arrived, the Aztecs were doing horrific shit to each other. Like in the consecration of the temple of— is it Tenochtitlan? Mm-hmm. Where they killed some— with the— one of those Spanish chroniclers named Diaz said that they killed as many as 80,000 people over 4 days. They sacrificed them. Like, these are— this is not like balanced living with nature civilization we're talking about. The Aztecs, they were doing some wild shit, man.

They had survived much longer than the Europeans had.

I understand that, but they had survived by enslaving people and ritually sacrificing them.

So that's your European story. But okay, what do you— that's a European seeing a system and projecting its belief of its own broken relationship with nature and everything else.

But do you think that they had a harmonious connection with nature by sacrificing slaves?

I can't— I can't defend that because I wasn't there to experience it, but I'll tell you a different story that will make you question it. Please, for me to tell you what the Aztecs were, that's a bullshit story. I can't tell you, but in my own lived experience with tribes in that exact area, when I spend time with them, my antenna goes wide. I start to sense this bigger reality. And if you look deeper at the stories of the Aztecs, one of the classic things that they did human sacrifice in was their sports. And so they had a game that looked a lot like some combination of soccer and basketball. And so they had a little tiny ball that they could strike with any part of their body except their hands. So they couldn't throw it.

The Mayans did that, right?

Yeah. And so the Mayans have this sport and they've got this tiny little hoop way up on the wall of the playing field, which were huge. Like as big as your lacrosse field or something like this. So they got these huge fields in the middle of these pyramidal structures of stone and way up on the wall of one of these would be this tiny little hoop that was hardly bigger than the ball itself and you had to like bump it with your shoulder or kick it through that little hoop. The games would last for days. It was kind of like some version of your British sports that go on and on. But at any rate, the winner would be then taken to the front, and the captain of the team would be beheaded.

Yeah, not a lot of incentive.

Not a lot of incentive. Not a lot of incentive to score.

That's why the games took for fucking ever. That's why they lasted days.

Nobody wanted to win. But what incentive was it? They didn't want to win, or was the incentive not to stay alive?

Well, the kings weren't cutting their own heads off. If someone won, right? They were cutting the heads off of the guy who was the winner and probably reluctantly.

I mean, we can make all kinds of suppositions.

Sure. I mean, maybe they were looking forward to being sacrificed. It's very possible.

I think that's an interesting possibility.

But human instincts don't align with that. Human instincts align with people try to avoid death whenever possible. I totally agree that while we're still veiled between the 5 senses that make us think that things end at I understand, but if you're advocating for a world where it's okay to kill 80,000 slaves at the consecration of a temple that you probably didn't build in the first place, because one of the problems with the Aztec temples is they don't claim they built them, they found them. They found them already built. And they literally call them the place where the gods were born. Like, the— some of these incredible structures were built who knows how much longer before the Aztecs were there. They describe it. They don't, they don't say they built them.

No, they inhabited them. Same with Egypt. Yeah, thousands of years before the modern Egyptians showed up, likely.

So the Egypt one is a little more complicated, you know, because there's so much of it and it's so big. It's like, it's not that the Aztec one isn't complicated because it certainly is. So is the Mayan one. I've only been to Mayan pyramids. I've been to Chichen Itza. It was fucking incredible. It's insane. I mean, you just try to wrap your head around what this society must have been like— What was it like? —at its peak. But that's also the belief is that these people encountered European diseases as well. That's why they just sort of dropped off and vanished, just like the Amazons.

So I think there's a risk of us imprinting our current belief systems on a distant past that we can't remember.

Yeah, I mean, there's really— they don't really know what happened to the Mayans.

That's where I was sitting.

There's a lot of guessing, but the prominent theory, the predominant theory, I think, is disease.

And so I don't want to leave people hanging and think that I'm out to, you know, create a new humanity where it's okay to kill 80,000 people. I don't think you're saying that. I'm interested in a situation where the concept of killing goes away. The concept of death becomes reverent. The concept of death no longer is seen as an endpoint. The concept of death becomes an evolution, not an endpoint. This is what all indigenous people— you spend some time in Nepal, go to, go to Tibet, their whole culture is in reverence to death.

Well, they have those Tibetan sky funerals.

Sky funerals, those are wild, and people are horrified by that.

But I was like, as long as you knew that, like, they didn't have to get that HBO autopsy guy to exhume your body because you're your husband killed you or whatever it is, as long as you know that you died in a normal natural way, isn't that kind of better to let the— let the vultures eat you? It's kind of what you're supposed to be. You're supposed to cycle back into nature. We're so weird that we say, "Nah, you can't have me," and we poison ourselves so that we can go visit grandpa in the funeral home when he's embalmed. He's embalmed with toxic chemicals that are gonna keep his body from decaying so much so that you can dig them up a couple years later and find, oh my God, Nana poisoned them, you know, because that's, that's what happens.

They find out. That starts our new commentary about marriage.

But yeah, well, about humans, you know, I think there's a, there's something that's just one example. It could be, you know, a bunch of people, there's nurses that poison people. There's a lot of crazy people out there. But the point is, like, we're very strange in that the most common way we take care of bodies is we fill them up with chemicals that make it so that the rest of nature can't absorb us.

It's because we have no reverence for death because we think it's an endpoint. Yeah, we cling to these containers as if this was the story. Yeah, and that's what I got to see in hospice over and over again. It's the moment people pierce the veil and realize the antenna can sense everything again. That's when they realize this body is a tiny story of me. This is a tiny part of my experience, and it's precious because at that moment of being human, I felt heartbreak. I felt suffering. I felt fear. I felt guilt. I felt shame. None of which you can feel when you let go and pierce that veil. On the other side is radical connectivity. On the other side of that veil is radical connectivity energetically. You feel everything— stars, moonscapes, everything. You are— you're in this singularity moment, and that's what you can feel in your body. Like, I continue to get so moved by what I feel right now when I just tell you about what it feels like to be in the presence of somebody in that moment when their antenna goes wide open and they still have a biological antenna that can both transmit and receive information.

The amount of information around death is so vast, and this is why the Tibetans honor it so thoroughly, is this is that precious one moment where a human antenna gets the entire download and can still transmit it. And so if we are not sitting in the rooms with our elders that are dying, we are missing the biggest download of life, and we will only find it out when we're on our deathbed, probably dying alone. And so this is what I'm talking about is I see a world not without death. I see a world where death becomes the biggest moment of transformation. And 10% of people that go through that have to be discharged from hospice 6 months later 'cause they went on to live a new life. Their diseases go away. Their health recovers. Their biology returns. And they have a different relationship with their children. They go and start creating art they've never created. These near-death experiences are trippy, and 10% is a huge number. As a hospice doctor, I was admitting 80 patients a week to die. That's 8 patients a week that are doing what they weren't supposed to do. They were supposed to die, and they're not doing it.

In fact, they are showing so much more life after they glimpsed that everything's perfect, and they took a deep breath and said, "I got one more thing to express before I let go of this finite moment." And this is our precious experience that we have. And I think, honestly, I think you're embodying something of this for humanity to look at. You're one of those rare personalities that gets on this, you know, seismic launch into the public eye. Wealth comes rushing to you that wasn't even expected. You set out to have some fun with some friends, and then this happened. And you are one of the few people in the public eye right now that didn't allow that to break your relationship to your nature. And you stayed connected to the people that are building stuff, that are making cars. And that's what I grew up doing. I love it. That's what keeps us real is turning wrenches, getting the car to go faster, building a house. I built my own home. I live in the woods of Virginia and built my home there. I'm living with my partner down in Panama. She's building a whole village down there.

And it's amazing to see what is going to happen when women start doing development on this planet. It's going to be spectacular. But what I'm feeling is this return to being human where I am receiving so much information and I need no money to be happy. If we keep making money the source by which we will be safe, fed, housed, everything else, we will continue in our abstract relationship to nature. When we start reforming all human systems in the context of a nature that is not only abundant, it does not know death. It only knows transformation, transformation, transformation, transformation, more complexity, more beauty, more intelligence. And so this is where we can start to lose the fear of death and start to move into this more reverent state of sovereignty where we understand that we are fully resourced, not by Elon Musk's, you know, minimum wage of half a million dollars. We are resourced by nature itself, by life itself. Because we are cellular creatures, we had to be fully resourced. To occur in our mother's womb. There's— we needed no money to take one cell into 70 trillion cells inhabited by 14 quadrillion mitochondria that concentrate sunlight 10,000 times brighter than the sun.

That happened without money.

That— this all sounds great, but how do you get the money to get a saw to cut the wood to make your house?

Why did the money have to enter it? The tree is there.

Well, how did you get the saw? Did you make the saw? Yeah. Okay.

What kind of saw do you have?

Do you have a circular saw? Do you have one of those nice You know, those nice ones, sawzalls.

Why would we need money for that either?

Well, we knew someone's got to build it, so someone's got to make a factory, so someone's gonna make the internal engine that spins that wheel 1,000 times a minute or whatever it is.

There's— and so all you're talking about is a concentration of energy, right?

But someone's got to put the resources in to do that. They have to source the steel.

What if it was nature that put the resources in instead of the Fed? So the Fed's printing fake money, right?

But you've got to motivate people to innovate a thing. Do you have people to create? Yeah, well, certain things. Or you just— like, there's a reason why people do it, because they know that they can make some money off of it, you know, because they're currently stuck in a matrix where they believe this stuff is coming from money. DeWalt power tools, right? When they make those, there's engineers, there's a bunch of designers, they all work for money, and they all like figure out how much electricity it's gonna run on, what the engine's gonna be, how fast it has to be, what's the best steel for the blades. There's money involved in all that because they have to have a warehouse where they have to build it. They have to pay people to pay their healthcare, pay their dental. They have to take care of them. Maybe they have a union. Okay, so you've got union dues and fees, and yet there's a bunch of money being exchanged because people want a reason to show up at work to do the work to make these saws because they're very difficult to make. It takes multiple people.

There's a whole chain of different material science people that have to be involved. That's perfect.

So you just gave a perfect synopsis of the last 200 years. Yeah. And so the Industrial Revolution.

But that's how you make a house. That's how you make this table. Like, people have to work.

But we built houses and castles and pyramids that were much greater than any house built today without the money.

Yeah, but they had something. Okay, like houses for sure they had money. Like which houses? Like if you go back 400 years, 500 years ago, they definitely had money. 10,000 years ago. They were paying people.

Okay.

Pyramids. It's a good question.

Did they build that with money? We really don't know. They just had a lot of money so they built a pyramid?

Well, we don't know how they sourced the resources and we don't know how they got the people to do the work and we don't know what the technology was involved in terms of planning and we don't— we really don't know.

But I do know what it wasn't, which was something like the Fed.

What probably wasn't that, and so it's not—

that's the thing, it's like abstract monetary system that has nothing to do with life, that— right, pyramids.

Well, yeah, we don't know, right? But we would assume that would be more sophisticated than that because the pyramid's more sophisticated than that. We would like to think that it would be different. We, we are also trapped in thinking that this system that we currently find ourselves operating operating in is the only way human beings can operate. This is my belief about the pyramids and about a lot of these ancient structures. I think we assume that because we are on a specific direction in terms of technological innovation, that this is the only direction that human beings could have ever gone. And I have a feeling that that is absolutely not the case, and I think the pyramids are the best example of that. I think they went in a different direction. We don't know what direction that was because I think, you know, along the lines of what Graham believes and what Randall Carlson believes and a lot of these other folks, that there was some sort of a great cataclysm and this is the source of the flood myths that exist in all ancient religions. Yeah. And this is somewhere around 11,000+ years ago.

Yep. And I think that probably wiped out a lot of information on how things were made and what they did and why they were doing it the way way they did it. And I think modern archaeology just saying, you know, oh, they use sand and push stones— like, you can go fuck yourself. You go do that, bitch. You go figure out how to carry a 500-ton stone through the mountains hundreds of miles away. Go fuck yourself. You can't. You're lying to me. You're pretending to be an expert and you're lying to me because you're not willing to say this baffles us to no end. We have no understanding of what tools were used in order to create these incredibly symmetrical statues. Never forget about the pyramid itself. Forget about the, the, the things that— are you aware of Filippo Biondi and his work out of Italy? The stuff that they're finding underneath the pyramids is baffling. Yeah, the baffling—

the lidar systems up there. Baffling.

Yeah. So 20 meters in diameter, huge columns with spirals wrapped around them. Like, what's that? Why does it go a kilometer into the earth?

This is crazy. Is it crazy, or is it actually something we're actually living the truth of?

Well, I have a feeling it was an insanely advanced society that existed there, and I think there's just not a lot of evidence because the cataclysmic event of 11,000 years ago was probably so destructive that very few people survived. And the people that did survive, they just had stories and they just— they had survival skills and they had to live in whatever way was possible in order to carry on the human race. But I think all semblance of a technologically sophisticated society that existed pre-11,000 years ago was all but wiped out. And I think that's why society reemerges around 6,000 years ago. I think that's what that is. It's a re-emerging. It's not a coincidence that all these societies that did emerge around 6,000+ years ago, all of them have this flood myth. They all have these stories of these cataclysms because that story was passed on generation after generation, all the people that survived. And what we're getting is the ultimate game of telephone. We're getting the ultimate game of people telling a story, and then you tell a story, and then by the time it gets to Jamie, Who knows what's missing? Who knows what's been added?

Who knows what pharaoh has added his touch to it or what king has decided that this part can't be in there because it doesn't, doesn't jive with this particular religious text that I believe in? It's a real problem. It's a real problem when we go back and we try to figure out what happened in history. But the things that should confound everyone and should absolutely remind you that we don't know is the period. Pyramids. They, they should just remind you, we look at that, shut the fuck up. There's no way you know. You don't know what was going on. We, we could only make guesses, and we have to be very open-minded when we make these guesses because the sheer scale of these fantastic creations— and not just them, the labyrinths that go underneath it, that the one that has this enormous 40-meter-long metallic object that's under the ground that they don't know what the fuck it is. Herodotus talked about these labyrinths, like these, these are greater than Giza, he said. Like, what were these people doing? And how did they do it? We don't know.

You have such an important couple of words in there. One of them is this knowing concept. Yes. If we continue to try to make stories out of our mind to explain the world we live in, the cosmos and in all of its complexities, or the human body and its miraculous thing, we're gonna end up with very disempowered versions of reality.

So what should we do instead?

Feel it instead of know it. Okay, well, how you feel how they made the pyramids? You're already doing it. I'm watching you do it because you keep looking up here every time you're like really going after the pyramids. You look way up.

I do that with everything when I'm trying to think. Exactly.

Yeah, but what's actually happening is once you've done that 4 or 5 times, your body starts to putting the information in, and then you start speaking from some other thing than your mind. And that's when you come up with this conviction, and I can feel it. So when my antenna is open, I can feel you state your truth through your body language, through the energy you're transmitting across this table. And I'm not listening to your words anymore, I'm feeling it. Your truth is fundamentally that pyramids exist. Things too complex to our own human mind and technologies exist. They're here right now. They're undeniable. You're transmitting a truth that I don't have to work on the words, that I can feel it and it lands. For so long, I was trained to look up here, and I spent all of this time, 17 years in academia, looking up here trying to find my information map of like, oh, there's that piece of information and there's that piece of information. Let me put that into a story because that's what I know. I had my near-death experience in 2010, and when I experienced the peace and the opening that happens— it was a car accident in 2010— when you have that experience, you suddenly realize that what you know is a fraction of what you can feel, and you have so much more information at your experiential level of capacity to inform your biology than the mind will ever be able to create.

And so this is where we start to live telepathically. And this could all be theoretical, but I will tell you, I have seen thousands of patients in my clinics that are living this reality already. They have already gone back to telepathic communication wide open, and they are called autistic people. Autism is a neurologic development necessary at the end of a period of time when humans went into complete abstraction. Money systems went abstract, have no relationship to nature. We have medical systems that are actually chronic disease management systems that are bankrupting the world now. $5 trillion in a year spent on disease management in the United States alone. We are bankrupting the systems that got separated from nature. They are going to collapse. They are going to fail. And suddenly we develop a neurology that cannot be programmed with the old abstract systems and belief systems because they are feeling too much. We call it sensory processing deficits, but really what it is is a mind that's no longer gated with excuses, with defense mechanisms, with tolerance levels of cognitive dissonance.

Is this why— have you seen that there's one young boy who flew over Manhattan in a helicopter and then he drew the entire skyline like completely accurately? Hmm? Just from his memory.

Yeah, and it's, it's, you know, a project that's become known as the Telepathy Tapes is a great example of it. Yeah. And I was on their second season of that talking through what I experienced in clinic, is that we now have not just a theory of telepathic communication, we have the lived experience between thousands of people that are in there, in there between space, between the words. They are traveling to a unified location that they all agree exists, which is called And so they are having an experience in which massive amounts of information are being transmitted back and forth, and they cannot be programmed with death is bad and things— they can't believe any of the abstract things we've been taught because they feel too much. The reason I became so clear on this was total accident in my clinic, which is the only way new ideas come along is complete accidents, because when we do scientific research, It's way too linear. We see something, we're like, "Well, if that's happened, then this must be the way it is. Well, if I just saw that, then this must be a way." So we do these linear knowledge-based systems, and so we get nowhere.

We go in circles in— well, cancer must be— here we are. We've known cancer wasn't the problem. We knew that cancer was a metabolic symptom, a symptom of metabolic collapse 100 years ago, so well-defined in medical literature, everything else. Otto Warburg was the guy who like That's when they like broke the whole news in the 1920s. So here we are 100 years later still thinking like cancer's coming out of the woodwork and attacking healthy human bodies. So we go on these linear things. What we are forgetting is these leaps in awareness, these— a much bigger antenna system is available to us. And you only get there when you finally surrender your knowledge base and you start to feel what's happening in front of you. And so I was taught that there was a disease called autism that was affecting our children. For years I helped manage these people in clinics and everywhere they showed up in the medical system, and I saw it as a disease, and my linear mind was always like, "I gotta fix that. Maybe if I do this, I could fix the human brain. Maybe if we flip this switch, it'll work.

Maybe if we put this chemical in their body, we can change their neurochemistry and get them to be able to tolerate a day." My clinic that I launched in 2010 was called Revolution Health Center, rural clinic. A town of 550 people, no resources monetarily. There was no reason this was going to become an explosive hub of innovation if you measured it by money. I was hemorrhaging money. I was not making money as a doctor at all. Rural doctor had left the hallowed halls and the marble halls of academia and I started seeing autistic kids a lot in these rural environments and in these inner-city urban environments is where we had have these really high penetrance of autism. It's not being diagnosed because they don't have the resources to bring the attention to the child's 5, 7 years old and by that time, there's been no resources brought to the kid. So lots of undiagnosed autistic neurology out there. So I was seeing a lot of it in clinic and these kids are heavily affected and the suffering is kind of through the roof. They are hitting their head against a wall 6, 8 hours a day.

They have a callus on their forehead from rhythmically hitting their head, striking their head against a wall. And when they get upset, somebody comes in their environment, stresses them, they start smearing feces and blood on the walls. It is, from parenting aspect, the most horrific hell you can possibly live in, the amount of suffering being expressed. And so these kids with highly affected autism are coming in my clinic, and they can't even sit in front of you. They run around in the clinic room, and they can't make eye contact, can't make physical— they're feeling too much, and they'll go hide in a corner hit their head against the wall, stim somehow. They're stimming their body until the chaos of everything they're taking in is shut down to one signal of pain. So this is an intense way to see a human being. And this kid's 4 years old sitting in front of you, and this mother is more exhausted than you've ever seen a human being. And so we started trying to like go into the woodwork of like what resources are we not thinking of here? And by this time I was starting to be exposed to Native American indigenous practices new energetic therapies, Ibrahim Kriem stuff out of Egypt, and it was like, okay, show me something.

Give me some tool here. And we stumbled upon this very simple tool, which is called Emotion Code Therapy. And it's a simple way of bringing the mind into awareness of where an emotion is stored inside of itself. And then you run a magnet over the forehead, over the top of the head to reset the magnetic pull of the water around the brain. The brain and it changes the neurochemistry. And so it was a powerful tool. I was super excited about it. But most of these kids coming in so affected wouldn't even get close enough for me to do the therapy. So we started doing it on the moms to show the kid, "Hey, this is safe," and they'd come in and get a couple treatment. After 2 years of this, we started to realize all of the kids were improving before we ever got that treatment installed. They were improving when mom got treated. That started to make me realize they're not expressing a personal experience. They're expressing a field effect. Their antenna's wide open, and when we removed mom's emotional stressors, the kid got better. And so we started treating everybody in the field, and a heavily autistic child will require 3 to 5 full-time, you know, efforts to get it.

So they got a grandma, 2 aunties, an uncle, 2 brothers that are taking care of the kid. And we started treating the whole field. Like, anybody who has touch with this kid in a week, we want to see them. We want to clear their emotional field. The effect was just undeniably effective. Every time you cleared another individual whose emotional field was being felt by the kid, the kid improved. Whoa. And so what I started to realize is these kids, because they are wide-open antenna that cannot damp themselves down— they don't have the filters that would allow them to survive in an abstract, fake environment that's artificial through and through. They cannot do it. And so all they can do is feel everything. And now they're feeling what those native cultures must have felt when Europeans showed up for the first time. Neurologic systems that are wide open, that suddenly see an abstract human being in the suffering they are in, will collapse its own neurology, will overwhelm the system. And so the same thing that our autistic are showing today, I believe, is very similar to what it must what it must have felt like to be an Inca or Mayan in your habitat and suddenly see the field disrupted by a stress signal, an unbelievable signal that just broke the whole field.

So we have stories about floods, but we're still thinking of the flood as a physical wave of water that came over. Is it possible that the flood was actually a neurologic experience of overwhelm that wiped out the entire memory bank. Did we do that when a sector of humanity truly experienced and believed itself to be separate from nature for a moment? Was there an original abandon? I don't think it has.

They're mutually exclusive. And I think there's a lot of physical evidence that the impact, the Younger Dryas Impact Theory specifically is real. I agree there's water.

I agree water goes up and down. I agree that there's massive floods. But when we talk about the Inca and the Aztec, there was no flood at that time. So what I'm really getting at is, is it possible there's something other than just physical floods?

Can there be energetic floods? Right. So in that case, these settlers coming across, not just the diseases, but just the fact that they were there, they can scatter. They're marauders. These people are coming in on horseback. They have muskets.

They think they've been kicked out of nature for 1,000 years. They're terrified.

They're cutting people's arms off if they don't give them their their weight in gold. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're breaking the field. Yeah, you've read some of the depictions. There was, um, was it a, um, a bishop or some— someone traveled with— some religious person traveled with Columbus's first crew and wrote these horrific depictions of what they did to the native people that they found. And once they found that these people had gold, that they demanded their weight in gold, were cutting their arms and dashing babies' heads on rocks. Horrific stuff. I forget the guy who it was, but it was some religious figure who traveled with them. Here he is. Bartolomé de las Casas. So, um, he was a Spanish lawyer, clergyman, writer, and activist best known for his work as a historian and social reformer. So this is the guy. And, uh, so he— he recorded what the Spanish settlers did. He described and rallied against the atrocities committed by the conquistadors against the indigenous people. Arriving as one of the first Spanish settlers in America, Los Casas initially participated in the colonial economy built on forced indigenous labor, but eventually felt compelled to oppose the abuses committed by European colonists against the indigenous population.

So he's one of the reasons why we know that we probably shouldn't be celebrating Columbus Day. Probably wasn't a great guy. No.

And I wish it was distant history, but it's still happening. The cartels are still doing that down and throughout this whole region that we're talking about. They're still beheading people with machetes and they're still at this. We, as the United States, have killed more people than any other peoples in history. We have been a machine of death for 250 years like none other, and we've done it in the name of freedom. We've done it in the name of, you know, our God is better than your God. And so we have used these altruistic shields to become the biggest death machine in the world. An incredible medical paper was published just recently in The Lancet, and it looked at the number of global deaths from just US economic sanctions over the last 40 years, and the number was around 35 million people dead. 35 million people dead. Not with a single tank, not with a single plane in the air, not a single drone, from economic sh— sanctions. And so when we keep telling ourselves that we need money for our own health, for our own houses, we need healthcare insurance, therefore we need money, the assurance of health will never come from a company that doesn't care about you.

It will always come from biology. It will always come from an Earth that allowed you to conceive in your mother's womb.

Well, we're in a very perverted system if health is dependent upon these organizations whose primary focus is to make the most money possible. That's crazy. And then recommend to you drugs that you absolutely don't need and then hide studies that these drugs are damaging to you.

It's crazy unless you think that everything comes from money, and then it makes sense.

Yeah. Well, it makes sense that, you know, the old adage, money is the root of all evil. That's— when did that get written? Who wrote that? What quote's that from? I know that quote so well, I have no idea who wrote it.

Do you have any idea? That's the oldest adage in politics.

I wonder who's credited with that. They probably stole it from somebody else. Does it say? Bible. The Bible. There you go. Ah, Timothy 1:6-10. Wow, there you go. So that would have been Aramaic.

Yeah, Timothy was speaking Aramaic. Aramaic was a critical language that has been forgotten in our Christian world of New Testament, Old Testaments, but most of it was written or spoken in Aramaic, not Hebrew or not Greek.

Dead Sea Scrolls, it's all in Aramaic.

All in Aramaic.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are bananas.

And if you look at the language of Aramaic, then we're getting a layer or two back from abstraction where there's actually shape to those that are actually transmitting information.

There's something about looking at that written language as well that's really compelling. Your antenna's up. Yeah, especially like old languages. There's something about like old Hindu. You look at it like ancient Hindu scripts, ancient Tibetan scripts. Look at Farsi.

Yes. Farsi gives me goosebumps when I read Farsi. When you look at a Rumi poem written in Farsi, you realize he wasn't transmitting a poem. He has so much mathematical truth in a thing that's in the form. He's telling you geometry. He's telling you sacred geometry, the fabric of the universe in the form of a language that is not symbolic. It's a true depiction of information. It really is interesting.

It's embodied information. These ancient languages are so beautiful. Ancient Hebrew is another one. It's beautiful. You look at it like, this is wild to look at, you know. And then when you find out that ancient Hebrew, they didn't have numbers, so the letters doubled as numbers. And so there was actually numerical value in words that were missing. Like when the translations got to Latin and Greek and eventually English, like, we lost what they were trying— there was something that they were saying that if they could read it, they knew there was more context. Complex to these words that just simply, you know, you're talking about a bush, you're talking about a tree, you're talking about a lake. Now there's something to it. It's really, really interesting stuff because it's like, why did language get less complex as it got more recent? That seems strange. It got more symbolic.

So it wasn't necessarily the complexity that was the problem, it was that it separated itself from the actual information. So now the word tree tree is a symbol of something that actually has never been a noun. So now we have a word that has no movement in it. It's a noun. It does not express movement. And we now assess, you know, 60% of the surface of the earth as a non-living, non-moving thing called a tree. Whereas all native cultures, when you ask them, "What is that?" they will use a verb. And so what they're saying is that is treeing. That's treeing. That's treeing. Really? Using verbs? Nothing is stuff. It's all verbs. English was the first language to come around and characterize everything as a noun, and that's why it became the language of science, is because science broke its relationship to motion. It wanted everything to be static, therefore studiable, therefore we could control its variables. And so every time somebody shows you a cancer study, shows you a cardiovascular disease study— I did this for years. I've got an peer-reviewed science, everything else. I was literally having to break every element of nature so that I could prove that my protein, CouP-TF1, was the most important thing for cancer.

I had to break every relationship to nature that that cancer cell could possibly have before I could study that protein. And so everything that we call trust the science these days is an aberration. It's a symbol of life. It is not life itself. And so science Science itself has become this noun-structured belief system that has no flow in it. There's no verbing happening in science. It's, there's a bacteria, there's a mitochondria, there's a human cell, and we think of those as 3 different things. No, it is life lifing, and what it's doing is finding more and more ways to stack complexity to get more and more light concentrated per cubic centimeter. And everything is in one relationship. There is no tree-human thing. There's life doing biosis, interconnected relationships. And this is getting very fun now, is like we actually got the science now to prove that we were wrong. And so we think, okay, here's human DNA, double helix, Watson and Crick. This is Bible of the biologic kingdom now. Everything comes from DNA, and human DNA is much better than bacterial DNA. 'cause bacteria just have little circle loops of DNA. We have this beautiful spiraling double helix.

This has got to be the best in the land. But then we start in 1992, you know, we set out to decode the human genome. And we thought, "Well, this is going to be amazing. It's going to be a 40-year project," 'cause we knew how many, you know, genes we could decode each year with our genetic sequencers. So we thought we were going to have to find 400,000 genes, because we knew by this time that we had 400,000 different proteins in the human body. So we're like, "Well, we need to find a gene for each of those," because we knew that a gene made an RNA that then made a protein. We knew how it worked. Watson-Crick started us off. 1996 rolls around, and the team finishes 25 years ahead of schedule because there were not 400,000 genes. There was 25,000 genes. Everybody laughed, said, "You screwed it up." 3 more teams finish over the next 2 years. The first team was wrong. There was not 25,000 genes. There was 19,000 genes. They had miscounted because they had dual-counted some of them. We have less than 20,000 human genes that make a human body. The reason why that's so embarrassing is because a flea has 30,000 genes.

A fruit fly has 13,000 genes. So you sit somewhere between a flea and a fruit fly genetically. In fact, you're a little closer to the fruit fly than the flea. That's probably why the flea can jump 40 times Sometimes it's tight and you can't, but there is something sitting here right in front of us at the genetic level saying to be human is not to be a species. And so what is all that DNA doing? There's so much DNA in a human. How can we have so few of that— how small of that information actually coding a gene? And it turns out the number's 1.5%. 1.5% of the DNA held inside of a human cell is actually coding for a gene. 98.5% we ended up calling junk DNA. So it was called junk DNA for 25 years until somebody started to realize that we were preserving our junk DNA more carefully and passing that to our young than we were the genes. And so there's something super important being preserved by biology from generation to generation, all this junk DNA. What we now have found out is the mitochondria— again, 200 mitochondria, many different species variants living inside a single human cell because they change their genetic sequencing very rapidly.

And so you got maybe, you know, a couple hundred different versions of mitochondria sitting in a single human brain cell. Those, it turns out, are storing their genetic information in the double helix of the human cell. And they go and access inside the human nucleus the gene that is theirs for their own reproductive capacity. You can pull an RNA out of that, come and decode a protein so they can reproduce every 3 days for your entire life. So the mitochondria are storing their genes in the human cells. This was— this doesn't fit any biologic map of Watson and Crick. You're starting to realize there's a collective expression of— in the antenna of being human, and that's what DNA ends up being is it is actually an antenna system that's taking in information and then unwinding and rewinding to reveal different genetic sequences to all of life within a human ecosystem. So we are now convinced genetically that it's impossible that a human is a species, else we'd be somewhere between a flea and a fruit fly. The magic of being human is in the 98.5% of our DNA that doesn't code for a human gene, that is likely coding for all of life.

That's what it means to be a keystone species genetically is we are the life. We are the life record. It is happening through us, in us, around us. Life is ascending through a biologic matrix that we call a human body, but it is not a species, it's an ecosystem. And 70 years ago, we started the antibiotic era, and we started wiping out the diversity inside of a human body. And so the toxicity of herbicides and pesticides have very little to do to their impact on a human cell, It has to do with the impact on the entire ecosystem that's expressing itself through this massive genomic library that is so big we can't even wrap our head around. If we strung you end to end, you've got around 50 to 70 trillion human cells. Each of those cells has about a meter of DNA bundled inside of every nucleus of every cell. If we strung you end to end, we could wrap Joe around the circumference of the planet right at the equator. 2 million times. Your DNA wraps around planet Earth 2 million times. The amount of genetic information in there is plenty to hold a record and a code for all of life on Earth.

It will not surprise me that in the coming years we start to realize the entire code is here. We found out just recently that you could take the human genome and rearrange it into 178 puzzle pieces and spell "pig" perfectly. The genome is this warehouse of life of Earth. It's not belonging to a human species. And I believe that this is where we are going to really spend a lot of our new excitement around what it means to be human as we start to move into our next era. The antibiotic era is coming to an end. It's crippled our biology and our fertility to a point where we cannot continue it.

Well, how do we move past it?

We become biologic again. We're going to end the chemical antibiotic era and we're moving to the biological Renaissance. You talked a couple of times about this moment of like remembering, like the Renaissance that we can all point to, sudden explosion in math, science, art, massive, you know, it doesn't make any sense what was happening 50 years before the Renaissance Renaissance and then the Renaissance and what would happen the next 200 years. It was a parametric explosion of creativity, of human capacity, human mind capacity, creativity. What does it coincide with? Remembrance. The antenna opened up. And so this is the moment we're about to reenter now as we're going into the next Renaissance. And it's happening in people like Dr. Ibrahim Karim out of Egypt. He's suddenly remembering the technology of the hieroglyphs. He's remembering the technology of waveform and its influence on biology. He's not in there inventing this stuff. I've sat with him in cafes, and I'll say, "Well, what about this disease here?" And he goes just for a split second into his antenna, draws the shape on the napkin, and slides it across the table. He's not He's not producing this stuff, he's remembering this stuff.

The antenna is opening up on humankind right now and autism is our supercharged version of that. The autistic neurology is so wide open that we're going to have no choice but to be— start to remember everything. A kid flies over New York once, can remember the entire scape. That's what our antenna is capable of doing. Autistic children are not abnormally genius. They are minds that are unfiltered and bodies that are still in the context of nature. They have not separated. When I sit with an indigenous elder in Africa, the Khoi people, the Khoi have been around for 300,000 years. They have an unbroken oral history for 100,000 years with the exception of that blank point, 11,000 to 7,000 years ago. And so they also suffered the amnesia. But 100,000 years of oral tradition is spectacular. It's twice as long as anything else on the planet. Aboriginal, 40,000. Native Americans, 40,000. Deep Peru, 30,000. 100,000 years of uninterrupted information. You sit with one of these elders and they have all of the experiential traits that the autistic community has. They can go to the hill. They can communicate telepathically with the forest system. They can tell you what the panther is saying.

They can tell you what— the moon cycle saying, not because they've studied it, because they're literally just listening to the information. They're receiving the information. This new Renaissance that's beginning is a biological reconnection that is going to be available to us. So much information that we're not going to sit here around listening to podcasts of wondering, scratching our heads about how did the pyramids happen. Like, what did we— we're going to start doing it again because there's a cellular understanding of how water and carbon work, how how much work you can do instantaneously when you master the ability of the antenna of a human being to organize matter. The pyramids were not built, they were organized, if that makes sense. I believe that when you feel what's happening inside a pyramid, this was all an energetic expression. This is a frequency wavelength expression of something that was energetically priority used. It's an emergent reality that is made by biology when it feels the whole field.

Right, but how? How do they put it together?

So the people that are remembering this, that are starting to feel what is this, it's— they did it through mind. They did it literally through transmitting information into the natural materials. And so they would cut with their mind, with frequency, as a transmitter to cut the stones, to organize stones, to move anti-gravity, everything else. And you're bringing this to everybody's attention all the time. These UAPs and everything else that are rushing around here— gravity only exists in one plane of reality here. And so there's anti-gravity experiences that are the process of waves interrupting the relationship between two bodies. That's gravity. Gravity is the distance plus the mass, or the mass squared plus the distance between the— or multiplied by the distance between the two bodies there. And so you need two bodies in a relationship to create the phenomenon of gravity. Not surprisingly, you can put a waveform between those two that interrupt that relationship. And so when you start to think this way, then UAPs and your pyramids all start to make sense. We're so Newtonian in our current belief systems. We've forgotten how to believe in quantum physics because we became so committed to the mechanical reality that Newton offered us.

Newton said, this happens, therefore this happens. Everything is action and reaction, action, reaction. Maybe, or everything is creation. Is the right relationship between action and reaction actually polarity instead of of one thing reacting to the other.

What do you think is fueling this current renaissance?

I think it's us getting to the breaking point of human neurology. We can no longer sustain the stories. It took so much energy for us to all believe the stories together. Everything you've ever talked about on this podcast is pushing— you, I don't even know if you know you're doing this. You are pushing the human neurology to its breaking point. Point with every podcast. You're challenging the human mind to stretch past its capacity to keep the old stories alive. You're breaking minds. That's why we love you, is I have a great affection for all people who do this, and you're one of these people doing this. You are a breaker of false things, and you have an incredible device that you use all the time, which is curiosity. It just won't let you sit still. Mm-hmm. You're too fucking curious. I love this about you, because this is why I was excited to come to your podcast— not so I could talk about anything, so I could feel you. I wanted to feel what this feels like, because this has to be one of the most freaking curious motherfuckers on the planet. What a gift to sit in front of a curious human being.

There's nothing that feels better. To a human neurology than sensing the other. The impregnation that Dr. Ibrahim Karim mentioned there, that field effect of two fields that come into presence together and imprint, impregnate the other one. It's your curiosity that's got everybody paying attention. We love it because you're not here to tell us you know everything. In fact, you keep challenging us that we don't know anything. You've said it 5 times on this one. We don't know. That feels so good to a neurologist. We don't know.

Well, I also think many people are curious, and they also want to hear from other people that are curious as well, because we live in this weird world where we've been deceived into thinking that people have short attention spans. It's not true. Like, our— your attention span can be hijacked by short-attention-span media, but it doesn't mean you have a short attention span. Most people that I know, if there's a thing that they like, there's a thing that they're interested in, they have immense attention for it, whether it's a sporting event or a concert they go to. There's a lot of things that you have a lot of attention for. It's just, it has to actually resonate with you. And people love when other people are curious because they're curious. Most people are curious.

All humans are curious. Yeah. All humans. If you're not, there's something wrong. You're not human.

Well, you just blunted life life has thrown you some curveballs and you didn't know how to duck.

Oh, you can definitely turn a curiosity off in a human, no question. Yeah, you just separate them from nature long enough and you drug them, you know. That's just a symptom of nature deficit disorder, I think.

Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, I think that's why one of the best remedies for people that are depressed is physical exercise. Get them out in nature. Yeah, get her— go out in nature, go hike it and camp for 7 days. Something that makes you feel alive, gets blood pumping, because that's what's supposed to happen. That's how you're supposed to exist.

It's been shown, 3 nights of camping outside, never go inside for 3 days, your immune system reverts 30 years. Your T cells turn back on, all your stem cells activate. We are living a blunted human experience because we separate ourselves from nature.

Did you ever watch the Werner Herzog documentary, uh, Happy People? No. It's really fantastic. It's about these people that live in Siberia. And they're so happy. There's like no mental illness, and it's called Happy People Life in the Taiga. So it's all these people that are off the Taiga River, and these people live a subsistence lifestyle. They hunt and they fish, and that's all they do. They ride around on snowmobiles. They build cabins. They live with their dogs. Sounds like my life. Yeah, it's quite fascinating because these people don't have any mental illness. They're all happy. They're all laughing. They get together, they drink, and they have parties, and they eat food together, and they're laughing. And then they go about their work, and then they exist completely embedded in nature. They are nature. They're a part of it.

And I would offer they're not working at all. They're creating. They're living. They're creating.

They're living. Zach, this was awesome. This is really fascinating. We got to do this again.

Can I show you a picture of how we got here?

Oh yeah, show me a picture of how we got here.

All right, let's just— I want to go through that next slide because it's going to orient us to like what's actually happening to humankind right now. Okay. And so we have established clearly that nature's the context of a connected, interconnected life. And so can you go back one slide? Oh yeah, that one will work. Yeah, sorry, go ahead and do that one. And so this is looking at the effect of glyphosate on ATP, which is energy production per cubic centimeter. And so this is looking at that. And this is, uh, vehicle meaning control. And so you're producing about 1,600 picomoles per milligram of ATP. These are the mitochondria turning carbon chains of carbohydrates and fatty acids back into light energy. And so you've got this massive energy potential. And then within 30 minutes of introduction to just 1 part per million of glyphosate, which is a common amount that you would see in a lot of your chemical farmed food systems. We've seen this all the way down to 10 parts per billion, which is, you know, 1,000 times smaller quantity here. And so at these levels, though, you see a sudden collapse of the ATP production.

And so now imagine in 1976, we start eating food with residues of this chemical, and suddenly we shut down light per cubic centimeter for the first time in human history. More effectively than ever probably. And so I'm going to show you on a population scale of billions of people what happens when you start to undermine the light per cubic centimeter. And so you start at obesity in the 1980s, 4 years after introduction of this chemical to our food system. From there you end up seeing the collapse of the metabolism that we call diabetes. Diabetes is a condition that stems from the obesity in the liver. Obesity is not because you're eating too many calories, it's because the calories can no longer be burned at the mitochondrial level. Level, which is where they should be ending up. So obesity happens when you're eating 2,000, 3,000 calories a day and can only burn 1,500 calories a day because your mitochondria have been poisoned by an antibiotic that's killing the bacteria in the soil just as they're killing the bacteria inside your cells, which are mitochondria. And so as we started seeing these increasing levels of glyphosate heading through the system, you end up with diabetes within a few years because fat stored in the liver, which is where everything gets redirected— if it can't burn in the cell— will ultimately give you insulin resistance.

As you get insulin resistance, insulin cannot get the carbohydrates into the cell anyways, and so now you're starving twice. You can't burn it at the mitochondrial level and you can't get the sugar there. By the 1990s, we started to develop widespread allergies. The most energy-demanding system in the body is the immune system. As the immune system started to fail in its metabolic capacity, relationships started to fail, and we suddenly started develop a reactive relationship to the foods we were eating. Wheat in 1992 starts causing a massive allergy to, to gluten, and the gliadin compound in there interacts with glyphosate to synergistically fracture this metabolic capacity. We don't have gluten sensitivity, we have a metabolic collapse that's called glyphosate poisoning. I'll show you the peer-reviewed science we published from that. Within a couple years of allergy, which basically overwhelm of the immune system to your environment. You ultimately end up with autoimmune disease. This is where your body no longer can sense what's outside and what's inside, and your body becomes the enemy. So autoimmune disease is a steady destruction of your own body by your own immune system that can't tell it's you. You've lost cellular identity.

Within a couple years of that, we develop neurologic conditions— ADHD and autism in our children, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's in our adults— as well as MS, ALS, and all the other neurologic degenerative conditions in the middle. In a 2-year period, they all went logarithmic. By the early 2000s, we're starting to realize we're in the middle of a cancer epidemic. This is when I was at the University of Virginia developing chemotherapy. And so cancer epidemic launches— initially it's really obvious, leukemias, lymphomas, all these bone marrow things. And it's pretty soon, by the late 2000s, it's solid tumors. It's prostate cancer, breast cancer, colon cancer, all of them going logarithmic. And so this explosion of cancer, and that's not because there was more carcinogens around, it's because there was less life, there was less light per cubic centimeter. So every time we go down this ladder, we're seeing less metabolic capacity, less light per cubic centimeter. By the early 2010s, we see this collapse of fertility around the world. Today, 110 countries around the world are below the fertility rate necessary for replacement. And 110 countries below. United States is way below, 1.6 instead of 2.1. Infertility goes global.

By the early 2010s, endocrine disruption and genomic instability starts to occur. So these are things like methylation defects and we can no longer detox the body, so we develop stories about Lyme disease and all these conditions of infections when in fact it's just toxicity that can no longer escape the body because we don't have the repair and detox mechanisms there because the metabolism, the life, light energy per cubic centimeter is diminishing. Finally, we see the emergence of gender dysregulation happening in the womb. And so this has probably started in pockets around the world a couple decades ago, but by the 2010s, mid-15s, we see this happening regularly. And what's happening here is the biology is staying at neutral. Every fetus ever developed in the womb of a woman starts at neutral, neither male nor female. It starts at neutral and then around 90 days of embryologic development, it requires an explosion of energy from the mitochondria within it. And it takes that 90 days really not to do anything at the human level, but you're growing the garden. You're growing the microbial garden inside the human to get ready for this massive energy discharge that's going to polarize the biology to become male or female.

So to move from neutral to male or neutral of female requires this huge energetic thing that we call puberty. So the first puberty happens at 90 days in the womb. There's another one that happens late phase in utero. And then there's a more typical one you see around 4 or 5 years old where you start to see differentiation of some of the physical features of boys and girls. And then the classic one around 10 to 13 years old. And then another one around 18 to 21. And then a final burst that happens in your late 20s. So we go through all of these huge energetic discharges that create polarity, that move you away from neutral to one or the other of the sexes. And this isn't like sex as a preference. This is literal neurologic expression. This is the neurology of the deep brain forming the behavioral traits of a human being to become male traits, female traits. If you've ever had two kids— I don't know if you got kids, but I've got a daughter and a son. They're both adults now and married and thriving. And when you watch a kid develop, it's unbelievable what's pre-programmed in there.

The male traits can appear by the time they're, you know, 6 months, 9 months old. They're doing something different than their sister did at that same phase. So there's— what we're talking about is this deep programming of the biology as it goes away from center. By the time we had this much glyphosate in the system, so this whole cascade from 1976 to 2020, You're looking at this yellow line that's traveling up there. That's the amount of glyphosate sprayed into our global environment. Today we spray 3 billion to 4 billion pounds of glyphosate into our global soils. 3 billion pounds of anything is disgusting, but this is unbelievable amount of antibiotic. That much antibiotic has reduced the metabolic life force of our planet and our species to the point where we have a chronic disease explosion by the 1990s and infertility, collapse of the species, and then gender dysregulation. So this is how a species goes extinct, is it loses its metabolic capacity to concentrate light energy. Light per cubic centimeter is how life occurs. Biosis is the interconnected relationships that make life possible. You undermine those relationships, you decrease the number of relations per cubic centimeter, and you start to see this pattern evolving of a decrease in, in repair and regeneration.

And so then your rate of repair versus your rate of injury suddenly goes out of whack. And a previous rate of injury of eating bread— gluten has a slight impact on your gut behavior, slight decrease there, and you lose fidelity and the whole thing starts to degrade. So I've spent the last 15 years of my life building systems with people around us that are already tuning into this wider antenna to say, What does biology look like fully supported? So we've created these online programs called Journey, which is journeying humanity back into natural systems to fully support not only the biology and the way it repairs and regenerates, but fully open up the antenna to remember what we were supposed to be doing here, to remember what it feels like to be between heaven and earth, to be floating in this cosmic stew of curiosity, creativity, productivity, That's what's going to make humans humans again. It's when we allow our children to become between again and start to stop being programmed into machine-like behavior and start to open up their antenna. We can decide to do that as a society and proactively go about this, or autism will emerge to the point where 1 in 3 children will have autism by 2035, and we do this anyways.

We are going to develop a neurology to escape our mechanical history. Our anti-nature, antibiotic nature is going to come to an end because bodies are always going to win. Nature's always going to reinvent herself out of whatever stressor is pushing on her at that moment. Right now, human behavior is pushing on nature. If we stop doing that and we let nature come back in, we get to be part of the solution. We become part of it. We step right back into the right relationship with the keystone species.

If people want to see more of this and they want to read more about— what is your website?

Zach Bush, MD is the website and the book is Biological Elegance and you're going to only find it there. We're not putting it on Amazon. We're not asking anybody to go after money or abstract systems. We're asking for engagement. I don't want followers. I want builders. I want creators. I want the co-creators that are going to come build this new world with us. This is my excitement and passion. I think you're doing a great job pushing us there. Well, thank you.

And I know you're going to get a lot of people that check this out now. I'm very excited. It was a fun conversation. Let's definitely do another one. I look forward to it. All right. All right. Thank you very much.