Transcript of #2563 - Dan Richards

Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day.

Danny.

Hey, Joe.

Good to see you, brother.

Good to see you again, man.

So right off the bat, you hand me this Smithsonian pamphlet. It's like a very small book on Peruvian elongated skulls, including like diagrams.

Yeah, but not Peruvian. These are from the Pacific Northwest.

Oh.

From Washington. One of the things where I wanted to really bring up to you, the majority of the elongated skulls in recorded history are from Washington State, Oregon.

What?

Yeah.

Now, were these manipulated skulls?

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. They were manipulated by people. As a matter of fact, when Lewis and Clark reached the Columbia River, they passed the Cascade Mountains. All of the Native Americans west of the Cascades had artificially modified skulls. Look at the title of the book, The Chinook Sign of Freedom. If you didn't have an artificially modified skull, you were a slave.

Whoa, the Chinook Sign of Freedom, a study of the skulls of the famous chief. How do you say his name?

Concomly.

Concomly.

And he was, he was, um, he met with Lewis and Clark during the, uh, during their expedition, um, and he was as famous as Sacagawea was 100 years ago, um, but he's just disappeared. Um, he had an artificially elongated skull. I got a bunch of images, um, that talk about it. He attributed his intellect to his artificially elongated skull.

What?

Yeah, that he— they believed—

How would you know though?

They don't.

They did it when you were a baby.

Exactly, but that's what they all believed. And there is actually something to this. This is one of the things that's really interesting that I've stumbled on is, you know, Neanderthal— if you look at the difference between a Neanderthal brain case and a human brain case, there's a huge difference. I have an image, if you don't mind, Jamie, you can throw it up there if you don't care, but It's all in the back. It's like there's a thing called Chiari malformation type 1 where the base of your cerebellum falls into your spinal cord and it causes migraines and all kinds of stuff. And scientists now are saying that it probably came from us and Neanderthal brain case skull not quite fitting.

Hmm.

And if you think about it, it actually makes a lot of sense, right? I mean, the Neanderthal skull's way wide in the back and that's where all of your motor skills, your smelling, your seeing, your hearing—

Yeah, they were more primitive. They're probably super athletes. And the real— the weird question is, like, were they smart? And how smart were they? Like, their frontal lobe is not as big as ours, correct?

Correct.

And that's where all the thought processing and decision-making comes from. So they probably had insane athletic ability.

Oh yeah, absolutely. And motor skills and visual ability.

The visual ability is important because look at the size of their eye sockets.

Now imagine if you wanted the best of both worlds, so you were breeding these 2 species together.

Look at the jaw on that motherfucker. Imagine trying to knock that guy out.

Good luck. Forget about it. Although they had chests like barrels too, right? It's like they all look like you do naturally. They don't have to lift. They just— they're just that way.

They probably look a lot more impressive than me.

Well, the guy on the left, he looked— he looked like me naturally.

I mean, do you remember that one? I think it's just nonsense, but there's this one guy who proposed the idea of Neanderthals being like gorilla-looking, like super predators. And he thought that the eyes were bigger so they could see at night. And he had like this crazy—

It was very eating us all. Yes, right, right, right.

Very sensationalist nonsense.

And the genetic evidence is what, you know—

Yeah, that guy. Yes, it's fucking dope though. The idea that seeing in the dark You know, like primate that lives in the woods and was like infinitely stronger than us. Like it could just rip our arms, right? Like gorilla strong.

But not smart enough that you could like, hey man, could you please— no, no, no, no, no. He's just going to eat you.

A dolphin, oddly enough, has a skull that has a larger capacity than us. And so then we have to think, okay, is it just motor skills?

Like, do we—

what do we know about the brains of dolphins? Well, we know that their brain capacity, it's quite a bit larger. Like, they're— I think their core— their cerebral cortex, I think, is like 40% larger than a person's.

Yeah, something like that.

Something crazy like that. So what is that? Like, what's going on with them? Like, how are they so much more intelligent than us, but they just can't manipulate their environment, so we ignore it?

Well, that could be it. Also, it could be a degree of chemistry that they can't— you know, I mean, you can't do fire underwater, really. So you're kind of stuck with your technological stuff.

There's no manipulation, right? So all of their intellect must go into other areas.

Social and hunting.

But then you find out how horrible they are to each other.

Yeah. You know what I mean?

Like, the infanticide, you know, like dolphins— female dolphins are very promiscuous. And the reason why they're promiscuous is because if the male doesn't know if the cubs are his or not, if he thinks they might be his, he's not gonna kill the cubs. But if a female has cubs, the male will kill the cubs So the female will breed again. It's like, hey, I thought you guys were like the super peaceful fucking smart ones.

Sounds like, sounds like kind of like us.

Well, I mean, I don't know a lot of guys who are killing babies so that the women will breed again.

No, but I—

But it gets close.

Chimpanzees do it.

Do they do that?

Yeah, they do that kind of stuff.

Bears do that.

Yeah, it's, it's—

Bears do 2 things, they think. They think one, they eat cubs to force the female into breeding again, but 2, they think they just do it for food. Dark. That's—

yeah, that's arachnid levels of dark, right?

Cannibalism is dark, always. And bears are all cannibals. And this is the thing about people and the anthropomorphication—

is that the word?

How do you say it? Anthropomorphication. I always— I want to say pro, but it's po, right?

Anthropomorphication. Yeah, yeah, I think you're right.

Whatever it is, people Humanizing animals. The weirdest one I think is bears. And like, you can train bears. There's bears at the circus. You like— they're an interesting animal. But in the wild, they are some of the fucking most brutal and ruthless creatures there. It's basically almost like a giant wild dog, you know? And they tear things apart and they eat things while they're still alive.

Like, they're fucking— They don't care.

They don't care. They're fucking horrible. They're horrible to each other. They go into dens and pull out cubs and eat them.

I mean, I— Yeah, just a different set of morality, I guess you could say, or lack thereof. But yeah, I'm glad I'm not a bear because I'd probably have been eaten as a cub.

Or you would have been hit by a car.

Or I'd have been hit by a car. That's the rough one. Or caught in a trap and trained to be a dancing ballerina bear or some shit, stand on a ball.

The ancient humans though, to me, are like— I feel like this is a This is an emerging topic, even though we've known about Neanderthals for so long. Now that they know about Denisovans, now that they know about Homo floresiensis—

how do you say that? Yeah, I'm—

pronunciation on that. That one? Island of Flores man, the hobbit people. Now they know, okay, we've got 2 very distinct human beings that lived with humans that aren't Homo sapiens. And the Denisovans one is fucking super weird. They're big.

They're big. They were taller than us.

And the bigger heads, like very almost like Neanderthal-like.

There's some of this stuff that I got to talk about here is like polydactyly, multiple fingers and more than 5 fingers and toes on each hand.

Yes.

That's in the Bible. They talk about the giant.

Okay.

Polydactyly, if there's a gene, GI— could you pull up the one that says polydactyly paper, please? Thank you. They've been studying this and there's a gene that Neanderthal and Denisovans had that a variant that increases polydactyly, it increases cranial deformations, it increases a bunch of stuff. This is, I mean, they, and this is all newer stuff. You see, that's 2023. And there's, this is huge.

I saw your video on this where you talked about there's one family in Brazil that has like most of their family members have 6 fingers and 6 toes.

And yeah, and they say it helps them.

Of course.

Of course.

I can grab the ball better. I can play an extra string, right? Right.

Imagine guitar, extra finger. That's nuts.

I mean, you could even be an ugly dude and seduce a woman when you got an extra finger.

Good luck. Chicks don't want to have kids with a guy who has fucking 6 fingers. Have some freak kid.

In South America, they actually honored that stuff.

Of course.

They honored genetic deformations. I honestly believe that they were actively breeding different bloodlines together in South America.

Look at that baby.

It's crazy. It's got 5 fingers and a thumb. That's crazy. I mean, the thing is, they look absolutely normal in every other way except the fact that they have 5 fingers instead of 4. Like, and it would take you a few seconds. It's almost like you're living in The Matrix and this is like an AI glitch, you know, like AI glitches. They would have people that have like additional appendages, like a weird elbow growing off your elbow, you know, because it just glitched.

The Clatt walks Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, like, it would take you a while before you really—

like, imagine if you were high and you went over this lady's house and you saw her playing piano and you're like, wait a minute, why is there so many noises?

Slow down with the noises.

How do you have so many fingers? Wait a minute, you have extra fingers? Like, this dude had special gloves.

That's expensive-ass gloves right there.

Bro, he must be a motherfucker of a goalie.

Oh, of course.

Right?

It's the greatest hand skill for goalies.

Yeah, but it's a lot of extra space.

But sure, more space, you cover it up.

But I think—

Definitely better if you could teach them how to punch. You have a whole nother finger that, like, the width of the hands would be greater, the weight of the hands would be greater.

Yeah, the guitar players say it's not the extra finger as much as it is the extra stretch, the extra reach that lets them pop a couple extra frets down.

Oh, that makes sense. That makes sense. Especially like long fingers.

Oh, the guitar's still made for a 5-fingered player, right?

Right.

So you're— yeah, it's not— Well, you can figure out how to do it with 6.

Oh yeah.

Like, look what Hendrix did. He just flipped his guitar upside down, played it left-handed.

I guess Stevie Ray Vaughan, local hero, right?

Right.

Yeah.

Turn that thing and stand— you've seen the Live at El Macabro one where he, he takes his like $15,000 Stratocaster, stands on the horns, and he's rocking the neck back and forth.

Whoa.

Pops the string, just fuck your pick, doesn't even care, just go.

Wow.

It's not a toy. It's not an instrument. It's a damn toy. It's a tool. It's a Yeah, yeah. Anyway, I could gush about that guy for a bit. I like Stevie. He's pretty good.

We have posters of— or photos of him from when he was on stage at the club way before we owned it.

Oh, really?

Yeah. Yeah, he was on that stage in like the '80s.

Oh, wow.

I think the picture's from '83.

Yeah, I popped into Antone's a couple of times to just, just, just to smell the air.

Yeah, Antone's is dope. That's a great place. I've seen Gary perform, Gary Clark Jr. perform there a few times. It's fucking sick.

Yeah, I haven't got to watch a show there every time I'm in town. It was up to no good, but I'm gonna have to catch a show there one of these nights.

Yeah, we did it and everybody got COVID. The whole crew, everyone backstage got COVID. One of their guys— yeah, one of their guys had COVID after the show. It was like during the whole— during the full lockdown, and they had a concert. I was like, I can't believe we're at a concert. And then we went backstage, we're hanging out in the green room, and then everybody got COVID.

I am not a fan.

Yeah, except me. I didn't get it.

Oh, it's because you didn't get it. You were, you know, it's funny. It's, I was something that I wanted to talk about on this anyway. So we may as well get into it now is the COVID thing. You know, they weaponized scientific literacy when they said trust the science on the, on the jab. That's, I, there's a lot of things worth talking about, but the whole war on science, like I keep calling, I get called a science denier a lot. Fuck that. I'm a science gatekeeper. You don't get to call it science if it ain't science. You stop at the door. Science is a method. It's a way we get somewhere. It's not the end result. Carl Sagan said, science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe. The average time for a peer review for a test on a vaccine is about 10 years. You crank it out in a year and a half, you haven't followed the proper fucking steps. You haven't done science. I'm not a science denier. I'm not— I just do it right and come back. Right.

It's not a coincidence that there was so much money involved. We're not stupid.

No.

We know why. It wasn't done because there was no other methods to treat this disease. That's ridiculous. It's not true. Well, and that's why they got so mad at me.

But that's where I was gonna go with it. Your doctor, they would say, threw your personal physicians under the bus, and I don't know anything about that except for that I can extrapolate. I can guess and say that the guy that your personal physicians probably wants to keep that job, probably doesn't want to see you croak from COVID in the meantime. I mean, I could be wrong, but, you know, it seemed really just ridiculous that it was like, oh, they're just pushing a bunch of pseudoscience bullshit. It's like, um—

You could look at it that way, and I, you know, everyone was scared, and it's not their fault that they, you know, they were presented with this pandemic that caused people a lot of anxiety. What was shocking to me was how few people were willing to say, What did that guy do? Instead of saying, oh my God, you're anti-science, you're promoting vaccine hesitancy, you didn't get vaccinated and you survived COVID and you're telling everybody how you did it, this is anti-science. But it happened.

Except they told you you were using a horse dewormer. Right.

Well, that was completely insane. That's just proof of propaganda. But even without that proof of propaganda, you also have this thing, like if we are all trying to get through something and you see someone who is a very public person, I'm online all the time, I have no of subscribers, right?

Yeah.

So I'm very scrutinized on my— and everyone knows that I work out all the time. Everyone knows I take vitamins. I talk about it all the time. Cold plunges and fucking hyperbaric chambers and all this different shit. Why wouldn't they say, oh, apparently if you're really healthy and you do these things, and for maybe whatever reason you can't get vaccinated, this works too. There was never even a consideration, right? Even, even let's assume the vaccine worked, which it didn't, like, let's assume that it prevented infection, which it didn't, prevented transmission, which it didn't, and didn't have any side effects, which is certainly not true. So let's just, let's pretend it did. Even then, you have people that are allergic to some of the ingredients in the vaccine, right? Aaron Rodgers was one of them. And so if you tell those people Hey, I understand that this medicine that works you can't take, but here is a guy who did something different and was fine. Like, this is okay too.

Instead, they shut all that down, demonetized people, closed channels down. It was bad.

It was interesting.

It was interesting. It's funny watching it from hindsight because we can look at it now and see where everything's kind of settled afterwards to a degree. But even still, like, Like, for example, the Fauci hearings. Nobody who was a big supporter of his that I know personally knew about that until I told them about it. It was like it just didn't show up in their fucking radar.

They don't want to know about it.

Of course not.

I mean, nobody wants to think that they were completely wrong about that, you know?

Yeah, and that was one of the things they did, whip everybody up into a fury.

Yeah, look, when you're wrong about something, you got to say, well, I was wrong about that for sure.

That's really honestly like part and parcel, not just to being an honest person, but like especially if you're in science.

Yes.

You know, like your boy, your favorite archaeologist who's not a scientist, that Flint Dibble guy, he recently did a thing where he was making fun of me, and he's like pulls up this thing talking about Easter Island and how Easter Island's earliest habitable layer has foodstuffs from South America and Asia. So like as far back as people were hitting Easter Island that we're aware of, they were hitting both of these continents 1,000 years ago. So I've this. Flint clips that, he's like, this is bullshit, Dan's confidently wrong, he's full of shit. 5 minutes later in this livestream, he catches that that is accurate. Well, actually, there is evidence of contact between the two, but he never mentions that it was on Easter Island. He saves his face rather than— I mean, that's not like a big surprise thing, but the point is, is that if you're—

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You're not necessarily scientific.

This is what I also think. I think there's all this personal stuff that goes on with these people that is so completely unnecessary. And I think the only reason why archaeologists get dismissed by these, whatever you would call yourself, amateur—

Interested amateurs.

Interested amateurs in all things life and looking at these, looking at the data and looking at the science of it. And you're really good at it.

Well, thank you.

That should be an asset. That's all that should be. That should be an asset to the archaeologists. And if you think they're wrong about something, you should talk to them. Now, I think when he had that conversation with Graham, I think that's the right way to do it. I don't think necessarily he did it in good faith. And I think he wanted to, you know, push a certain narrative. And one of the narratives was— the thing that disturbed me the most is he was trying to label Graham as racist for proposing these theories that there's an advanced civilization that existed before the one that we currently see.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I don't think that it can be racist. It's human beings. It's not just human beings, it's human beings specifically that live in the very area where those human beings live. Yeah, so it's their ancestors. So the ancestors of Africans are the ones who built the pyramids, right? Whoever the fuck they were, whether they were the people of 2500 BC or whether it was even earlier than that, whatever it was, it was the people that live right there, the same people.

It's—

this is crazy.

Well, the whole thing is, this is what's really funny.

Atlantis.

Well, they say you assume that Atlanteans were white. Ergo, it's only the brown people buildings that you ask questions about. You're not asking questions about the Colosseum. It's like, okay, well, the Colosseum has written records, so I know why the Colosseum was built, when it was built. The Parthenon, same thing. But you know what I don't know about that was built by white people supposedly? Baalbek. Baalbek was supposedly built by Romans. We're all doing it there too. It has nothing to do with color. It has everything to do with written records. They ignore this. One of my favorite things to throw at them—

But Baalbek has no written records of the—

Not of the trilithons, of the big stuff. Exactly.

And how do you not write that down?

You write down everything. You wrote down everything.

The Romans wrote everything down. They had scribes. Their job was to document everything. They were very concentrated on history.

Yeah, yeah. We went off about this when me and Jimmy Corsetti were here.

Yes.

But talking about, like, the Roman foot.

Well, if Jimmy's right, Atlantis was in sub-Saharan Africa. It's Africans.

Well, I think honestly that— I think Atlantis is kind of a catch-all term for a lost civilization that was globe-spanning. Yeah. And like, they would call us 10,000 years from now, they would just lump us in with the damn French and call us the electronic civilization. And with the exception of GSP, I don't want to be associated with the damn French. No, I'm kidding.

There's a lot of dope French people. I love Montreal.

I love it. Speaking of, GSP is going to be at that event.

Oh, is he?

Yes.

He's the best. I love that he's doing a podcast. He's a very fascinated guy. He's fascinated and curious about so many things. And he's kind, and he's open-minded, and he's really intelligent. He is so odd. Like, when people meet him, and I go, do you know who that is? And they go, no, seems like a really nice guy. I'm like, that is one of the greatest cage fighters that ever lived. They're like, no way. I go, one of the all-time greats, if not the all-time great. I think Jon Jones is the all-time great. But I think he's in the conversation. Like, Georges is in the conversation of one of the greatest that's ever done it. And meanwhile, he's the sweetest, nicest guy.

Dude, when I made a comment once to him on Instagram where he was like doing these leg workouts, and I was like, my legs will never look like that because I'm sitting on a computer all day smoking weed and reading. And he goes, I'd trade my legs for your brain any day. And I'm just like, shut the fuck up. Your legs made you millions. What the hell are you talking about, boy?

Well, everybody wants what they don't have, you know.

He's gonna have me on his pod here on the 17th too.

Oh, cool.

He's gonna be here the 16th through 18th for that thing. Yeah, tell everybody this thing you're doing. Here at the Quest for Ancient Civilizations Conference, October 16th through 18th at the ACL Live here in Austin, Texas. It'll be me, Randall Carlson, who— Base Forge, you just had him on here, Bas Forge, and a few other guys. Yeah, this thing has got a bunch of AI. See the AI-generated Amish dude in the middle there?

Look at all the pseudoscience on one picture. I love it.

Oh man, yeah, we're— we're just like It's gonna be—

oh yeah, that doesn't look like Duncan at all. That's like Duncan on TRT.

But Curt and Duncan are gonna be there, the Mystery Boys. Those guys will be— those guys are always there.

You hear Randall Carlson has a rap song out now?

Yes, yes.

Not Randall, I'm sorry, Billy. Billy Carlson.

Randall, I didn't know what he released.

I could put one out together.

Randall has a rap song?

My brain got scrambled. Randall has a rap song?

When we were in Sedona, Arizona, me and him were sharing an Airbnb, and he was— he wrote it in like the late '80s. He was spitting bars at me over breakfast. I was just going, God fucking damn, this was not on my bingo card. Randall Carlson rapping at me for breakfast.

Randall Carlson is a hip-hop head?

Uh, from the late '80s. He's been—

How do I, how do I not know that?

I've known that guy for fucking 20 years.

Poor Jamie's blown.

I don't know if I should look it up or not. Poor Jamie's blown the fuck away over here.

Randall Carlson hip-hop, please. Put that into Perplexity. Ask our AI sponsor Perplexity what Randall Carlson's history in hip-hop is. That would be dope, watching fucking Santa Claus spitting bars like that.

I'm telling you, man, I was, I, it was, I was still drinking coffee and nursing my morning bowl, and I was like, well, holy shit. Yeah.

Yeah, crazy.

But yeah, that's going to be a fun thing. GSP is going to be there now that he just got officially 100% confirmed about an hour ago.

That's fantastic.

But yeah, that's going to be a lot of fun. But I'm going to be talking a lot about—

Tickets are available for that? You can get them online?

Yeah, tickets are available. You can get them online. The Quest for Ancient Civilization. Thanks. Quest for Ancient Civilizations. If you go to my YouTube, there'll be stuff on there. Yeah, if you look for Quest for Ancient Civilizations, you'll have no trouble finding it.

So this conference, available online, people can get tickets, looks like a dope lineup, and it's all the stuff that I love to talk about.

So yeah. Yeah, I jokingly called it the Rogan Trinity when we got GSP. We've got the pyramids, we got the comedy, we've got the ass whooping. We hit all 3.

So these people, let's go back to this Smithsonian thing, these people with their altered heads. Is it your suspicion that they were altering their heads to try to appear like people that were already here, like the Peruvian skulls and—

No, before I thought— oh, go ahead. Sorry.

No, go ahead.

Oh, before I thought that, but because like there's skulls in China that were originally mistaken for Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal and stuff like old, and now they say they're artificially modified by people. But no, I think— could you pull up the image for Chiari malformation? It's got 2 heads with one circled, like 2 Cat scans. Well, I was talking about the brain falling down into the thing. They believe that this is a problem from Neanderthal and/or Denisovan mingling with us.

Right.

Skull too small, brain too big. So now, if you have this consistent problem, you've got to— always got pressure on the brain. See how it pops down there? You've always got this pressure on the brain. Now imagine if you— you might drill holes in your head, like you've seen all the truncation that's happened down there. There's an image of that.

Yeah.

Then, or you might elongate the back of the skull every generation so that your kids don't have the same fucking headaches grandpa did.

Ohhh.

And so it becomes a thing that— and this is why if you check out South America, Paracas is insane this way. They have so many things: the polydactyly, the elongated skulls, the trephination. There's a thing— could you pull up the Inca bone one? Where your skull's Melt— the plates in the skull melt in the back. If there is stress or a lack of equilibrium, you'll end up with what they call fermion bones. Ones in the back are wormion bones. The ones in the back are so pronounced. These are called Inca bones because they happen mostly in Inca territory. You also see it in Easter Island, the Pacific Northwest, and in Asia. But this part of the skull right there, there's one that's got a Neanderthal that shows this too. Neanderthals had the same issue. There's another one, and that is an island— oh, Jesus. But yeah, the— sorry, there's one with white text at the bottom, Jamie, sorry. But yeah, Neanderthal had it, and it's a— again, it's from a lack of equilibrium. They say it's from the brain and the skull not quite fitting.

That makes sense.

I think in South America, I think that they were mingling different bloodlines, the same as you can look at a guy that plays Reacher and tell that he's probably got more Neanderthal millennium than I do. And they would mingle these bloodlines, and then they would get all kinds of different— yeah, there's a Neanderthal one. They would get all kinds of different genetic variations. And I think some of these were bad, but some of them were honored. Like, you've seen the Jaguar People of the Olmec?

Mm-hmm.

Okay. Have you ever seen— could you pull up the dental dysplasia one, the kid with the 2 fangs? There's dental things that'll make you grow fangs as a child. And it also quite often will give you a harelip. Jaguar? Whoa. And so like, if you look— yeah.

And so like, what do you think that's from?

Again, this is from—

is that some ancient shit where people used to have teeth like that?

It's DNA. There, there again, where we cross-mingle DNA. There should be one right there about the mouths with the I have the paper. Sorry, I'll have to pull up the exact paper.

Right, but those teeth, that's not in any other human primate that we've ever found.

No, it happens in ours, but when they—

So, it's just a malformation.

A malformation. We have a lot of that, like the— some people just keep growing teeth, right?

Right.

Or you get different bones in the head, different shapes of the skull.

I've seen skulls, ancient skulls with rows of teeth.

Yeah, yeah. Some of those, like, they don't know for sure how many of those are legit, but the there's definitely no question that these things happen. That's, again, the real problem with this is it becomes a cover-up. Like, a little bit ago, I mentioned that they were all these elongated skulls in the Pacific Northwest. Mount Coffin in Longview, Washington, when Colonel Charles Wilkes, or Lieutenant Charles Wilkes, whose father happened to be a member of the Skull and Bones Society in England, when he got to Longview, Washington, he saw Mount Coffin, this place where they had these above-ground burials and they were 3,000 of them. All of them supposedly would have had elongated skulls because again, if you don't have an elongated skull in that neck of the woods, you weren't a freeborn person. And this was— you had to be noble to be buried there. 3,000 elongated skulls. When he left, this campfire accidentally burnt the place down. All those skulls disappeared. That image that Jamie skipped past a little bit, goes, just a dude sitting on a pile of bones. This is an Indian burial ground that they were just looting the things and selling them.

Left and right.

Where do you think those things are?

In people's house— people's hands.

Well, I've never heard of a story of a person having an elongated skull in their private collection.

I have a couple of people that have commented on my videos saying like, I saw one at so-and-so's house in 1978. But, but here's— but I'll give you the smoking gun though, right?

If you're like some Rockefeller type guy, you got a mansion in Rhode Island.

It's funny you brought up Rockefeller. In the '30s, when Tello down in Paracas He starts putting out, hey, we've got these elongated skulls down there, and I need money. He was getting $300 a year to take care of them. Rockefeller gets wind, and history says flat out, he took an unexpected trip to Peru. He dropped 3 grand and walked back with 4 bundles. Now, according to—

That's it? 3 grand?

Yeah, and 4 grave bundles. That's 10 times what Tello was getting a year. 10 times what the guy was getting a year to take care of all of them. He coughs up 4 out of, like, 300 bundles. Now, those 4 bundles were supposedly displayed at the Met, supposedly displayed displayed at the National History Museum in New York. No photos exist, no drawings exist. They may have been repatriated, they may not have been repatriated, depends on who you ask. The AI will run you in a damn circle if you're going with it. At the end of the day, we don't know which were they, what they look like, but I can tell you this much. There's about 300 of those bundles to pick from. Do you think Rockefeller, if one of them had great big old devil horns and a third eye, do you think Rockefeller left it or took it with him? Fucking no-brainer shit, right?

Right.

So the best of the best, always gone. And as soon as Rockefeller found out that he couldn't go get the ones in the Pacific Northwest anymore, but there was some somewhere else, he ran there. And right now, you sent me the video just a little bit ago, but this is more— these skulls are disappearing off the shelves in the museums right now.

Yeah.

Right as we speak. This cover-up, there's this cover-up. I'm sure you've seen the map. 100 years ago, they drew a map of artificial cranial deformation, and then Like 10 years ago they made another one, both of these on peer-reviewed papers. And the older map has more information. There's more— the more areas they've erased. The island of Niue had it. Ancient Hawaiian people had about 8.9% of them that they dig up had elongated skulls. Nobody fucking talks about that. Nobody knows about it. If you want to go look at it, the answer is no.

When you say ancient, like what year?

Not sure, but when they dig them up and they start doing that— prehistoric they call it, but prehistoric in Hawaii, you know, maybe 1,000 years ago. Wow.

So this is all over the world, people are doing that.

Well, yeah.

And then what you're saying about the brain size and the base of the brain completely makes sense.

Thank you. I mean, to me it seems like the most smoke— and not only is it a smoking gun, it's like it coincides with human evolution because what would be— imagine you've got a Neanderthal and a Homo sapiens and they're talking to each other trying to figure out a problem and they both walk away from that with like like mad respect for the other person's ability to see what they don't. Wouldn't they want to mingle that? So like, uh, Jamie, could you pull that picture that I got of the, uh, that family tree? Um, it's just, it's like an empty blank white family tree, and then right after it's the— like, imagine if you were trying to make a symbol to tell everybody, hey, this is where we mingle bloodlines. So like, this is a standard kind of thing, right? And could you pull up that candelabra next? It should be I know where it is.

Hold on.

Sorry. It's that same symbol basically with the Candelabra of the Andes. You've seen that, right? The Candelabra of the Andes is visible 12 miles out to sea, okay? Now, if you think, we're trying to draw the mingling of bloodlines and here's a symbol of where we're doing No. Fucking doesn't it? I mean, does that kind of look uncanny? And then, could you pull up that Paracas textile, Jamie? This one even more. This is when they buried people in Paracas. This was— they'd put them in these textiles, and this one textile, look at that back there. Look at what that— try to translate that and keep in mind what I was just telling you. Okay.

It looks like a monkey on either side and then a person in the middle. And it looks like there's some sort of a transference of something through the top of their heads.

Well, that's upside down.

Yeah, that's upside down. Well, there's— first of all, it looks like they did DMT.

Well, clearly.

It looks like they—

It is hours of ayahuasca right there, buddy.

100%, they were on DMT. But that does look like 2 monkeys, right? It looks like they have tails, doesn't it?

Yeah, it does.

And then the one in the middle looks like the bad motherfucker. That's the boss.

That's pregnant.

I've met that guy before.

You have? I have.

I met that guy. I met that guy over there.

But you see that— notice in the middle of the thing, he's got something in his tummy.

Uh-huh.

I mean, if you think about the same line of reasoning, we're mixing different bloodlines to make something more, that image kind of seems to—

Also, they always have 3 fingers and 3 toes, and then you get to the tridactyl mummies.

That's interesting.

Yeah, look at the monkeys. I don't know what to think about the tridactyl mummies.

Neither do I. It's honestly like, I'm of the opinion now that I think that the genetic stuff they were doing in South America, down in Peru, created a lot of artificial— created a lot of natural weird problems. And some of them would be like misshapen skulls, and then I think they would wrap the heads to artificially modify them. And I think that's why down there they get so crazy looking, is because it's a combination of genetics and of artificially playing with it.

Okay.

The rest of the world, they don't get that cone head shape.

So do you think maybe they had like a bulbous roundish head but extra large? Because there's those skulls as well that seem to be not deformed, but they do have a larger brain capacity.

Yeah, the ones that are bulbous in the back, those are— that's the most common type of cranial deformation that you see. It's what Con Comely's skull, the chief that I was showing you, It's— can you pull that one up, please, Jamie?

So, bulbous in the back, bulbous.

Yeah, that's huge. Yeah. And that, again, that would keep it— and now notice, even back 100 years ago, that picture that he was just showing, the other photograph, why isn't his skull elongated?

Well, it's hard to tell because he's looking straight on, but it could be.

All of the artistic work of him is lacking that for some reason, right?

Couldn't you see that if some— well, that one looks pretty elongated. Just go back to that. That's crazy.

That was—

that was meeting those dudes. You'd be like, yo, what are you?

Check.

Look, they're doing it to the baby right there. Oh, the poor kid. Imagine being a baby, you're fucking strapped into that thing.

Oh man, there's in this book here quotes from a book called Astoria that used to be required reading up where I live in The guy that witnessed them, one of these kids being— their head binding, it said that their eyes bulged out of their skull like a mouse caught in a trap. Oh my God. So when you think about that, honestly, but if your kid was going to have migraines incessantly for the rest of their life, you might just do that anyway.

Yeah, I guess they had to do it if you're right. If you're right about the base of the brain, which kind of tracks. But it, to me, the The capacity of the skulls being so much larger in some of the Peruvian skulls is weird.

It is. It's a funny one too because these guys will argue back and forth. You'll get a lot of skeptics that say there is no larger capacity, but the guys that measure it claim that there is and the other guys that measure it claim it's—

Well, that one that we always show all the time, Jamie, that one that I'm really fascinated by, that one image, it's so big. It's so big. It's so crazy. You're looking at it and you're like, what is that? Imagine meeting that guy. You would be freaked out. Like, that, that would not look at all like a person. You would think, oh my God, this guy's from another planet.

Yeah, like that guy.

And then there's the sagittal suture thing, that some of them don't have the sagittal suture that we have.

Yeah, that's, uh, yeah, again, um, these papers—

Look at that head. Look at that head, man. Also, look at the size of the eye sockets.

Yeah, it's, it's definitely—

The eye sockets are fucking huge. That person must have insane eyeballs. Imagine what their eyes would look like when they're looking at you. I mean, how much bigger is that than a human's eye socket? It's so much bigger. That must have been a wild-looking dude. Imagine bringing that guy over to your house for a party. Your friends would be like, yo, who's the guy who keeps reading everybody's minds?

I know, no shit. No, I'm not playing— if we're playing trivia, he's on my team.

That guy's the freakiest one, man. The one on the left. But what you're saying might be accurate, right? That that might have been a rounded thing that was manipulated to be a flat thing.

Yeah, that's— I think that it was partially natural. Like, even the sagittal suture, that— this is one of the things they find with Denisovan and Neanderthal DNA.

That one on the right, is that real?

This?

Yeah. Is that AI? Is that horseshit? That's fucking real?

Mm-hmm.

Come on, man. What are we looking at? And someone stole that. Someone's got that in their fucking Rhode Island mansion.

Of course.

You know those Bronze Age or Gilded Age mansions that they have in Rhode— Very weird, man. I got into a YouTube rabbit hole the other day of Bronze or Gilded Age mansions.

Oh boy.

In Newport, Rhode Island, where all these like fucking super rich creepy people set up their castles. It's nuts, man. I guarantee if you get in the room, there's a fucking glass box and inside of it there's one of these skulls. It looks like it's from another planet.

Well, yeah, and, and it's so— it's weird to me that they're hiding all this. It's—

Somebody's hiding all that.

Well, it's, it's Maybe not just somebody, but there's definitely money behind it because it happens like so fast. And it happened like the article— I will link an article in a video and it'll be dead in 2 weeks and I'll have to go fucking find— like I've got 3 different ways to find this one thing right now and I've downloaded it because it just keeps disappearing. And it's the— what talks about Rockefeller buying the skulls.

And it's just someone scrubbing the internet of the Rockefeller scub skulls.

Oh, it still shows up.

But I think it's because someone has them and they're like, shut up. Oh, fuck off.

I'm 100% those skulls. History says that he either repatriated them or he left them in the museum, and it's like— so then I asked— you asked, well, what's the catalog numbers? Oh, well, there are no catalog numbers for human remains. Okay, fuck you. I know better than that. And the ultimate— what really gets me is this. They gave you the same excuse for Papua New Guinea as they do for China, as they do for Easter Island, as they do for Hawaii, as they do for the Pacific Northwest, as they do for Paracas. Well, it's about, you know, it's about like protecting the indigenous people's beliefs, and they don't want you to have like their skulls because then that would be like you have part of their souls. It's like, okay, I can understand that some of them might think this way, but we got Mennonites in Pennsylvania that don't believe that, and they're sitting right next door to their friends that do believe that. How am I supposed to accept that the entire Pacific Rim fucking all falls into line, we can't get them to do that same shit in Pennsylvania? I don't buy it.

This is a European thing. This isn't an islander thing. This isn't a Polynesian thing that's covering these things up. These people are perfectly content to have their skulls displayed as far as we can tell, but it's always some white dude going, oh, we gotta hide those fucking skulls because we gotta appease the— at the end of the day, please put all your shit in the museum so that we can keep a good eye on it for you. Can I see it? Fuck you. It's gone. Fuck you. Let's go. Try to find this online. You'll find an image that says, no image available, that has a title, and that's it. There was one, last I looked, there was one copy that was in a library in Malta.

And you really think that's because someone's in possession of this stuff and they're trying to squash it?

I think that there's a narrative there that people don't want pushed. I think that it might have something to do with I mean, let's be honest, what I'm talking about when you start talking about mingling different bloodlines for different traits, this does sound awfully eugenics, right? This does sound like it's dipping your toes into this kind of politically incorrect stuff.

But how is it eugenics if people just interbred?

I believe there was a program in Paracas.

Really?

Could you pull up one of the pictures of the person presenting the— when they would bring their jackals? When those jaguar babies, right? The jaguar people in the Olmec society had the hair lip and the fangs like I was showing. There's more than one statue of them presenting them. Here you go. Ta-da! Here's my baby. This baby's all fucking mutilated, not like me. Ta-da! Here you go.

That baby doesn't look mutilated though.

That's not a very good image, but yeah, it's—

Is there any— that one doesn't look— that one looks normal. It just looks like a mother with a baby.

Well, if you look at the top down, both of those, they have hair lips and they're missing the teeth. They are jaguar babies.

Like that one, that last image.

Yeah, that's a trophy skull, the only trophy skull known with a cleft lip. You know, if you were born with a cleft lip, even the Spanish recorded, if you were born with a cleft lip to their people, they would put you in a temple as part of the workers. You were considered holy. 6 fingers was considered holy. Deformations were considered holy.

And this trophy skull, what is it? What do you mean by that?

I mean that this is like a mummified skull with a hole drilled in it. I wish I could get a real image, but this is the only one that exists.

So somebody has that somewhere?

Yeah.

In a museum or—

Yeah, or somewhere.

Yeah.

Somewhere.

But yeah, there's, there's a bunch of these trophy skulls that they kept down in South America. They would wear skulls on their belt. They didn't shrink them or nothing. They just drill a hole right in the fucking thing and hang it right on their belt. Ooh.

Yeah.

But that one was especially prized because that was a noble.

You're walking around with a noble person's skull hanging from your belt? That's how they would wear them?

I'm a badass.

Wow.

Yeah, that part of the world was never—

So you think there's a potential that they were creating— they were breeding people specifically?

Yeah, I think that they would like pick bloodlines and be like, you know what, you look more like, and you look more like, and you need to have a baby together. And then Here's the baby. Oh, we got a good one, it's a jaguar.

So what do you think the whole tridactyl thing is?

I think some of the tridactyl mummies look fake as fuck to me, just to be clear.

The early ones?

Yes.

The tiny ones?

Yeah, the little ones look like cake.

But the ones that they do the CAT scans of, you're like, wow. Yeah, those are—

You know?

And then you find out that they're like at least 1,200 years old. You're like, are you telling me that 1,200 years ago someone created this?

I think DNA would be a good way to get into that to begin with.

I know.

Yeah.

I mean, it's just weird that this is all going on and we don't have definitive answers. And there's not also like a mad rush among scientists to discover— are these 2 trophy skulls?

Yeah.

Oh, this one just has a drill hole in the forehead.

That's how they did it, man. They fucking clowned her out.

With the skin on it and the hair. So this person's just walking around with someone's head wrapped around their waist.

Description I just read said they were most— I mean, the ones that they found were young women, like 13 to 16 years old. But I don't know if that's what these are.

Wow. One of them looks like a woman. The one on the right looks like a woman.

Kind of looks like my last.

That's so crazy. But yeah, that's, that's where things get so weird when you go back and you realize that entire cultures, they engaged in ritual sacrifice at a mass scale, like what the Aztecs did. They did wild mass sacrifice, and they— their culture was so— it involved sacrifice so much that they would go out and get other people. And that's one of the reasons why Cortés was able to group all these other people to attack the Aztecs.

Yeah.

Like, these motherfuckers have been killing us. us ritually forever.

Yeah, we're happy to kick these guys' ass. Oh wait, you're not gonna help us out afterwards? Oh, like, one of my favorite stories about that afterwards is they're like, okay, we need all you guys to bring all your codices here so that we can, we can put them on these shelves. And so, like, all these Mesoamerican codices show up and the Spanish friar's like, torch, fuck it, watches them all burn.

Yeah.

And there's like a handful left that exist now.

I know.

They just It was like 3 years ago, they bought those ones from a family in Mexico that had had them for like 500 years, and one of them talks about the building of Teotihuacan.

Whoa.

And the Mexican government bought it for like $250 grand. It was like— like I was telling Matt Bell, and Matt Bell's like, that's fucking nothing.

Dope trophy.

Some of these are fucking sick.

Ancestor chief skull.

Wow. Hold on though, wait till I get to some of these down here.

Holy shit.

So now imagine if this is— these are crazy.

Oh man, are you sure they aren't from Hellraiser? This is like straight out of The Predator. Yeah.

So these were found in Asia. What?

My dear God.

I don't— some of this looks almost like this is like from out of a movie set.

Well, they've glued like tusks onto some of the skulls.

What the hell is that?

Whoa, go, go back up a little bit.

Well, that looks like something out of Warhammer.

Yeah, that one on the right with the, the horn coming out of his nose.

Human child trophy skull.

Human child trophy skull. What the fuck, man, how did I never hear about this before? Okay, how about the one with the headsets on? That one's got headphones on.

That's— I don't know.

What the fuck, man? Why does it say info email? Are you selling these?

Yeah, I mean, I stumbled across something here. It does say art.

Oh.

Tribal Art Asia, which is—

Oh, okay. Sounds like some weird shit.

Yeah, that actually doesn't look like a skull. That looks like it's carved out of wood. Like the nose part, it's all filled in. You imagine if they found—

you found out there was a website you could just order trophy skulls. That's what I was— I did— I was finding recreated ones on Etsy that people are making. Oh, it says it's a replica.

Lord, but what kind of a fucking Etsy person?

Made by Monster. That's the kind of person. It's like, I ain't even trying to hide it.

It's like a dude with an Etsy page of just skulls. That's wild.

Boy. But, you know, even some of these Olmec heads have hare lips. Like, I got a picture saved on one of those that has it. It was— and again, if you mingle Neanderthal or Denisovan DNA with human DNA, this is the thing, is you end up with facial deformations, including hare lips.

I think it's real, bro.

What?

Early 20th century Dayak in trophy skull, and it's got a name. It costs a lot of money, and they say where it came from.

You could buy that?

Yeah.

Talking about—

looking for the price.

Do you think that— can you imagine if we had a fucking skull, human skull, on the desk? That's too creepy. That is, because we don't know how the guy died or the woman died.

A private collection from Thousand Oaks.

Oh wow, see how many private collections are out there?

I was telling you, if you can find elongated skull for sale, I was telling you about Concomely.

That's how I got here. I was looking—

I was telling you about that Chief Concomely. He was a huge friend to the honkies that came through that area. He married off his daughters to fur trappers. He cried when they moved the fort 30 miles away. He was like— he was— a bunch of braves came up and said, we're gonna go kill all these white guys. He's like, hey, hey, hey, do you not see how tight their— tightly woven their cloth is? Do you see how strong their weapons are? Do you see any of their kids or their women? Do you think this is all they're capable of, or do you think they're gonna bring more to bear when they bring their families with them? Let's not fuck with these guys. He was really shrewd and smart.

Mm-hmm.

He died 3 years later. Some British dude chopped his fucking head off. They actually had hit him. They— instead of these above-ground canoe burials, they'd hit him because they knew. Dude chops his head off, ships the skull back to England, and it wasn't until this— this came out 5 years after they'd repatriated the skull to the Chinook people.

Oh.

But yeah, they actually carved on the back of his fucking head even. Like, here, Chief Concomely. Here's his skull. Here's a friend to the—

If you can't see it, they engraved that on the back of his skull. Oh my God.

It's like so horrific. And like, so you can see why the Smithsonian might be a little hard-pressed in letting this stuff out. But—

Well, the Peruvian skulls though, Do you— like, when you look at them and you look at the monstera, do you think there's more to this story? Is this as simple as cranial deformation plus they do it on purpose, or is there a potential for a different species of human that lived there?

There's almost certainly, in my opinion, a different species of human that lived there. And I mean, even, you know, I'm not into the ancient alien stuff, but in all honesty, I wouldn't be— if If there was aliens intermingling with humans, this would probably be the best smoking gun place for it.

There's also all the evidence that they were building art that you could only see from the sky.

Exactly.

Which is really weird.

Which is really weird. And even things like that Candelabra of the Andes that I was showing, that's visible again 12 miles out to sea. Easter Island's close enough. Imagine the guys jumping down from right here, from Portland, Oregon, just jumping down the posts to Paracas.

Where were you drawing the conclusion that that represents genetic engineering?

I wouldn't have drawn it to begin with, but it looks like a family tree, and it's like with everything else lined up, all of a sudden it's like, well, I mean, if you're trying to say, hey guys, this is where we do this, what symbol would you use?

Right.

And that's where, okay, again, if this was in a vacuum, this is not how I got there. This is kind of the icing on the cake is the Paracas candelabra and that textile thing. The honest-to-God evidence is, I mean, there's a lot of papers that I have, a handful of papers that I've got screenshots of there, but you pick your genetic deformation and then Google it with Denisovan or Neanderthal and you almost guaran-fucking-teed— hydrocephalus, that big skull thing that I showed there, you see a few of those in Paracas with those great big things. Hydrocephalus is something that's— they— is the frequency is increased when you mingle Denisovan or Neanderthal DNA. It's this constant issue.

That candelabra image, does that image appear in other areas?

It actually does. Crazily enough, it appears in Easter Island. On skulls that are carved with that same image.

Whoa!

I didn't put any in the file, but I've got them in a video. There's 2 of them that they have. One is like a straight line and then one's like a Birdman kind of, but it's the same image. It's the same skull.

When you say skull, do you mean human skull?

I mean, decorated like those we were just looking at.

So, a dead human that has that on their head?

That they scratched it in afterwards like that.

Whoa!

There's a— Easter Island had elongated skulls, but almost all of those are gone. They're— and they're hard to find images of, like impossible, but they do have these, and they were like— they would do artwork on skulls after they would die, and a few of them do strongly resemble the candelabra of the Andes.

And is that candelabra— is that anywhere else down there? Is it on other— Not that I'm aware of.

Not that I've seen.

Can I see that again, please? The candelabra? Because the family tree thing, it's like, is it the same configuration on the Easter Island heads, or is it similar?

The— it's, it's not identical, but it's really close. What— look for Easter Island modified skull, Jamie, and that'll probably pull up the— it'll be a paper. I doubt you'll find it I doubt you'll find it in the images section, but if you click all, there should be a paper that— maybe you have to go to Google Scholar to find it. I apologize. But yeah, there's artwork on these things, on a handful of them, that is—

I'll find something here.

There's artwork on 2 of them in particular that's got that same fork symbol And one of them they call a bird— a Birdman. There we go. Bam, there's the Birdman. And then they're on the same page. You should see. Good job, Jamie, you're fucking pimp. See, they did a bunch of art on these skulls, but 2 of them have that same symbol.

Do they show that here?

They're right there.

Oh, it's got that thing similar. Super similar.

Yeah, not identical for sure, but it does have the same 3 things forking together.

So it's just a theory that that's the Tree of Life, or that's the family tree rather.

Yeah, that's totally— again, that family tree thing is completely, completely my thing. I'm way—

This one represents a penis entering a vulva.

Right in the back of his head.

He drew it on his head. That guy was like the earliest bad tattoo art ever.

Maybe they were honoring a person's ability to deep throat. Oh, this far back! Fucker gave you skull, you knew it.

X marks the spot.

But yeah, again, the imagery and stuff, I can't be 100% on, right? I mean, you can never be 100% on any of this stuff, but the genetic— those wormian bones I showed you in the back, they call them Inca bones for a reason, because they show up in the Inca. The Incas have a higher— South America and Peru, they have a higher instance of cleft palates. They have a higher instance of polydactyly. They have— just pick your fucking thing that's in line with all this, and it happens more there than it does almost anywhere else in the world. And then when you see everything else, the elongated skulls that frankly beggared belief, imagery and stuff that seems to— the way that they praised genetic deformations, it seems almost unthinkable they wouldn't be trying to— imagine if everybody in your society praised kids that looked a certain way. Wouldn't you necessarily— I mean, wouldn't some people want to have kids that looked that way?

Right, and there was probably some benefit that also came with that.

Exactly. You know, again, an intellect, they went— well, something, even if it was just a social one, even, even the kid could be— think about this, one person born with those weird teeth and a cleft palate that's also a little Einstein-y, only takes one. From every now on, it's like, you— this guy looks like Einstein, right?

Right, right, right, he's cool. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Sometimes it could feel like you're carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders, and for guys especially, It can feel like you have to carry that burden on your own. There's a lot of stigma around men being the provider, to keep it all together by themselves. But that's not good for you, your family, or anyone. Did you know that 6 million men suffer from depression every year in the US? And it often goes undiagnosed because of these stigmas. Real strength isn't bottling things up inside, though. It's admitting to your faults and doing something to better yourself. So go talk to someone— a friend, your partner, family, a therapist. Therapy is an excellent tool everyone should utilize. It's a great way to learn more positive coping skills like how to manage stress and help you live a more balanced and fulfilling life. BetterHelp is a great place to start that conversation. Judging by the millions of reviews and the 4.9 rating in the App Store, it's helped many people across the globe. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise.

Talk it out with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/JRE. That's betterhelp.com/JRE. That's like when people in the, uh, 1400s were getting syphilis and they all started wearing the big wigs.

Exactly, exactly.

It just took that one royal family with syphilis to wear wigs and everybody's like, gotta wear a wig.

That's— isn't that— it's— we follow these trends, right? It's— we people are weird that way, but here we are.

That's a weird one, that the higher classification of a person who was born with other human DNA that's given them specific traits. But the thing about the Monsterat stuff, and that doesn't seem like a human. If that's real, the 3 fingers and the 3 toes, and don't they have extra ribs?

Yeah.

Something like that, or extra vertebrae. The size of the head, the whole thing looks so weird. You're like, okay, is— if this really has been carbon-dated to 1,200 years ago, if that's legit, What is that? Because I don't think that 1,200 years ago people were capable of recreating something like that that's gonna survive a CAT scan. Why would you do the kind of work that they did that you can only see from a CAT scan? Because the entire outside of it is covered.

Yeah.

Right? It's got the, the white clay, and it's all mummified, and there's tissue that's mummified.

Yeah.

How?

No, that's—

How the fuck did you do that?

That's a very— I mean, that's a good point. And again, the one gene that's responsible for polydactyly, when they— in mice, when they introduced it to— the GLI3 variant that happens in Denisovans and Neanderthal in mice caused extra ribs, extra vertebrae, skull misshapen, dental morphology fucked up, and sometimes extra fingers. Sometimes good extra fingers, sometimes bad extra fingers.

Did the mice figure out how to get out of the cage? They started getting really smart. They started leaving notes. Scratch notes in the window, let me out.

Pinky, today we conquer the world.

Well, do you think the Smithsonian has had giant bones?

Yes, I— not only that, but this is funny. When I was here last time, I would have, I would have told you I don't think so. I mean, maybe 6'5, but I've done a lot of research in it since then. Fuck. Okay. One dude who I'm sure I'll get his name wrong, his name was Álós Haidlicka. He was a guy from Hungary who was a medical doctor. He had this theory that's a lot like the same theory of phrenology, like Leonardo DiCaprio poking on the back of the skull.

Right.

Boy, that makes you docile. Except for it was all-encompassing with the skeleton. He believed that you could do it with arms and bone— arm bones and leg bones and all of it. He left medical science to become an anthropologist to push that narrative. He fucking said it point blank. And then he goes out and says, oh, all these Indian bones that you guys have that are bigger than white people bones? Didn't happen. This guy's got a vested interest in proving that white people are superior, and that he believes that you prove this by the skeletons, and he comes out and debunks all the giant bones. And the way he did it, he's like, oh, see these bones? These aren't giant bones. It's like, dude, that's— yeah, when I get pulled over by the cop, I pull out the— I don't have any drugs on me, officer. See, these are cigarettes.

What year is this again?

1930s.

And are there images of these bones this guy's displaying?

Very, very little. It's almost all of this has just been scrubbed.

So what was he saying those bones were?

He was just saying that— he said that people mismeasured them. This is where it gets really, really ugly. He accuses people— some of these guys were really good at their job, and he'll accuse them of mismeasuring them and not knowing how to properly apply a tape measure. And the worst example of this, in 1959, 20 years after this dude's done this, one of the dudes in charge of the Department of the Humanities at the Carnegie Museum, Dr. Don Dergue, dug up in one of these Adena mounds a skeleton, and he says, according to the in-ground measurements, this indicates an individual that in life would have been 7 foot 3 inches tall. They debunk it by saying, well, this is just an in-ground measurement. This is just— it hasn't— he didn't do any other any other work with it or anything. It's like the man flat out said it indicates. He was— it's 1959, 15 years after they had all the mathematical formula for doing skeletons. This guy, they threw him straight under the fucking bus to debunk that skeleton that you can't find anywhere because they won't show it to you. So it's like— and this was in '59, again, and a guy in charge of a big department of the Carnegie Museum, not Dan digging in the backyard.

So So is there a chain of custody of that skeleton? Like, can that be traced?

All the way to the Carnegie Museum where we don't know what happened to it now. This is a consistent issue with these remains. If it's a giant bone or an elongated skull and you want to know more about it, real good chance you're not going to be able to find anything.

So what do you think was going on? Do you think there was a completely different species of enormous people?

Maybe. Or maybe even just some of us that had the different— just some different DNA in us than somebody else, you know, just a little bit of, you know, I mean, honestly—

This 6-finger, 6-toe thing keeps coming up.

Yeah, that's, again, you know, we get that now with just a little bit of Neanderthal DNA, right? So you get different species that had more Denisovan in them than us and still technically might be the same species, but not—

Do you think it's possible that these giants were Denisovans?

It's possible.

Because Denisovans were a lot larger than us, right?

Yeah, at least 6 inches, they say.

And if you had a big one like this Shaq, right? And there's me, you know what I mean? Like, if you have a really big one, like, isn't it possible that there's a range of even those things? Like, we only have a couple bones, right? And I think there's something that just came out from China about Homo juluensis. You know, that they think it might be Denisovan, that it might be the same thing, right?

Yeah. Dragon Man, the same thing. That's been out for a little bit now. But yeah, they're—

There was something that was like super recent where they were proposing, because I think they're trying to figure out what we're talking about, but we're talking about it from just a couple of bones. There's not a lot of— it's not like they had a whole graveyard filled with Denisovans with various heights and weights, and they can get an estimation of like what the medium Oh yeah, the vast majority of what we know about them comes from DNA, right?

Vast majority.

Yeah, so we have a few bones.

Yep.

But then it's like, how big? How big were they? Like, is this a 12-foot-tall person? Is that real? There's 5-foot-tall people and there's 9-foot-tall people.

Exactly.

What's the tallest person today, like 8 foot?

Alive now, I'm not sure, but like Robert Wadlow was like—

But he had like a real problem.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, giant gigantism. That's like tumor on the pituitary gland.

Just keep on growing.

Yeah, but I think that just for just an outsized enormous person, I think the record today is like, okay, 8 foot 2.8 inches in 2011. Yo, Sultan Kösen of Turkey. Okay, come on, man. Guy lives in Turkey, just like the one of the oldest DNAs in the world where Göbekli Tepe is. How do we know? Is this guy a giant? Holy crap, the size of that guy. What does he look like when he's standing up? Put him over there. Okay, and he doesn't even look like he has gigantism, does he?

I don't know.

He just looks like a giant dude. He doesn't have like a misshaped head or anything like that.

Um, either way, pretty impressive.

Now, a man— you know, is that a Imagine, is that, is that a gene thing? Like, is that, is that capable of being— is that old? Is that some old DNA from some other kind of human, or is that just a really big person?

That's a different guy right here.

That's a different guy. That's a guy in China, right? And these 6 fingers, 6 toes ones, is that ubiquitous? Is that— does that occur in all of the reports of these bodies?

No, it doesn't. Um, some of them have, uh, 2 rows of teeth, some of them have 6 fingers and 6 toes. What is— like, I got pretty skeptical about— because there's a lot of giant reports in America where people were digging up mounds. And so I got kind of skeptical about who I was taking it from. Like, you know, Joe Farmer, I just was like, okay, you know, maybe not. But if the guy was— it's like some of these guys were really good at what they did, and they'd say they recorded something, and it was— So there's probably a dozen solid accounts that are from people that weren't bullshit artists that had more to lose than they did to gain. And some of them were— 2 of them in particular are like good scientists, like well-known anthropologists respected in their field, and they were finding giant bones. And even today, like that guy that I told you about, Dr. Dondragu, there is an anthropologist right now that like 2 or 3 years ago, she debunked his work by claiming that he just did an in-ground measurement and that was it. And it's like he clearly said, this indicates an individual that was this tall in life.

It's like, I did a measurement on this and it indicates dates. That's clearly telling you I didn't just take a dead measurement.

Right.

And they just throw his ass right under the fucking bus in order to keep this narrative going. And that's where it's weird to me, because I don't think Flint Dibble and all of his friends give two shits about the giant narrative like Rockefeller does. I think it's way more of an ego thing with them, because archaeology is not a fucking science, Joe. Not even close. It functions like a science like religion does. So these guys, they all know it. They know they're LARPing as scientists. They know that when they call us science deniers, they're full of shit. So they just have— the only thing they can do is puff their chests because—

Well, some of it is science, right?

Well, sure, some of it is, but let me put it to you like this.

So why are you saying—

Archaeology is a study of human culture by material remains. Okay? Now, science, the cornerstone of science is replicability, arguably. If I combine hydrogen and oxygen and you combine hydrogen, we should get the same Now, if I dig up something in my backyard, can you replicate that? Or are you beholden to— what if Joseph Smith digs up gold plates, and I dig up an arrowhead? You believe one and not the other? Right.

But you can put protocols in place where you have a bunch of people that are all responsible for making sure that everything goes according to plan, and they all report to someone else.

But, you know, but how is it replicable?

Well, it's not replicable, but they are exposing these ancient remains, and they are using—

Well, you can use some scientific—

Carbon dating.

Absolutely. They're using physics there. That's physics, right? That's what it really comes down to. Fundamentally, archaeology cannot be scienced any more than theology. Fundamentally, a miracle, you either believe or you don't. I dug up something in my backyard, you either believe it or you don't. You can't replicate either one of these things.

Right, but you can film people pulling things out of the ground.

Would you like—

You can prove that it's old. You can You can— but there's a lot of instances where like they're doing a construction dig in Mexico City and they find like stone, they stop construction, archaeologists come in. Like there's a whole chain of custody of where this stuff's coming from.

Absolutely.

So isn't that kind of scientific?

Kind of. I mean, again, okay, there's a chain of custody on the Epstein letters, right?

Right.

But at a point it falls apart because Do you believe or do you not? That's what it really comes down to with archaeology is I can't replicate the findings. And if you can't replicate that, I'm not saying it's worthless.

Right.

A historian knows better than to call themselves a scientist. They know it's not— they use scientific methods. A video game speedrunner, if you know what that is, somebody who's trying to like beat Super Mario Brothers, they use science.

So, you'll put an archaeologist more in the line of a historian?

Absolutely. Well, yeah, they are.

Yeah.

Both of them call somebody else when it comes time to carbon date. Again, the reproducibility is crucial. And the argument that they always go to is, well, astronomy is not reproducible. If you have a supernova, you can't reproduce that. Well, yeah, except I have 100 telescopes all trained on it. So if this guy's dataset and that guy's dataset jibe, it's been reproduced. If I've got one arrowhead dug up out of the ground, we either believe that this dude dug up the arrowhead out of the ground or we don't. And this especially matters when it becomes to these unique one-off finds. It's one thing when it's an arrowhead. It's another thing altogether when it's the Antikythera mechanism.

Right.

And so, this is where archaeology becomes— some people, you could understand why somebody might believe the Antikythera mechanism is bullshit. And at that point, it goes directly to what I'm saying. It's faith-based. Does this coincide with my worldview or not? Which is why archaeology is like this huge split between these people that are the guys that are trying to puff their chests and say that it really is what they claim it to be, and then there's the people that are actually just doing good work, and they'll be quick to tell you, you know, at the end of the day, our results aren't— you know, we do science where we can, but we can't say for sure that our results are scientific because we're— it's a lot of guesswork at the end. end. And that becomes a problem when they do things like Clovis First, when they're like, we're going to use our science to beat everything else off the table. It's not fucking science, bitch. So get it out of here. And that's where, yeah, the same thing like I was saying earlier with the COVID thing, you don't get to— too many of us know what the scientific method is for you just to come in here and tell us it's something else.

Well, when Dibble was trying to deny that they did that, like deny that archaeologists will attack people that have evidence of something that contradicts their assertions. Like, that's crazy to deny. There's so much history of that.

He called it— what's so funny, when you're in that debate, he tells you when you're pushing down on him like that, he goes, well, that's an example of an academic debate. Those things happen. It's like, dude, okay, that same guy I was telling you about, Ailes Hidelicke, that racist son of a bitch with the Giants? Before, he believed that there were no people in the Americas before 3,000 years ago. And even on the Wikipedia page of the Folsom tradition, it still says now that any archaeologist desirous of a successful career could not posit an earlier date for the peopling of the Americas, or him and one other dude would destroy their fucking careers. This isn't the first time. It's been going—

It's ego.

It— well, again—

And it's men mostly, right? It's human men and their egos and wanting to be the gatekeeper of information.

I'm an expert. The authority.

I'm the authority figure.

Yeah. Well, imagine the shot to the ego it takes to be a guy like Flint. You study all your time and you study all this crap and then Graham comes along and he studies and he writes a fake history and you write a fake history and his sells more. Oh man, that's just gonna cry right up in his ass. And it does.

Well, they just don't like also that someone comes along and they're super obsessed with a subject, and they're not confined by the academic world where they have to get funding to do certain studies, they have to get things approved, they want to get tenure, they have to get the approval of the higher-ups. There's all sorts of stuff that happens in the academic world that doesn't happen in the world of the Jimmy Corsettes and the Luke Caverns and these people that could just go to places and start filming. You know, Ben van Kirkwyk can just go places and start filming and become huge experts in this stuff. I mean, the information that's available about the Old Kingdom, about all these things, it's all available. Like, anyone can read it if you take the time and if you really dive into it. And these guys have dove into it.

Yeah.

And a lot of these other guys haven't. And that's the thing. And they're a little lazy. Maybe not lazy, but let's say this, not as obsessed. So, they should look at the Ben van Kirkwyks as a resource.

Thank you. I've been saying this one for a long time, but they do the opposite. I'll give you a perfect example. Jimmy Corsetti, 2 years ago on X, posts, I wonder if the Nephilim in the Bible were the Denisovans or the Neanderthal or something like that. At the time, they didn't know Denisovans were taller than us. So all the archaeologists, oh, Jimmy's stupid. The Nephilim were supposed to be taller than us, and both of these species are shorter. And I even said, I'm like, I'll just let this go a couple days, and I'm gonna show you guys what you're doing wrong.

wrong.

And I let him go at it, and then I was like, okay, let's try this. As a science communicator, let's try it like this. Hey Jim, those ones are shorter than humans, but there are other species of archaic hominid like Gigantopithecus that were taller than us that might fit the bill. Why don't you look into that and see what you find? You take somebody's passion, they're looking at the rabbit hole, you shove them in headfirst. That's science communication. Telling them the rabbit hole ain't fucking there, clover your eyes, that's being a cunt.

Well, I also think we should all operate, all human beings, under this assumption. We don't have all the evidence for all the humans that lived. We just don't. We only have a tiny fraction. We have fossilized remains, especially when shit gets really old. We don't have enough data.

Yeah.

And if you just operate on we don't have enough data, which is pure, pure, everyone should agree on that. So once you have it, then say, okay, this is the data we have, and this This points to the fact that new humans are emerging that we're finding, and we might be wrong about the number that existed. And potentially there could be a cave somewhere in Siberia or wherever, and they find another bone and they go, holy shit, what is this one? This is a totally different kind of person.

Exactly.

And now you have another one and you have another one, and who knows how many of them there were. And this will give us a richer understanding of what took place. And then I think Michael Buttons has a really good video where he's talking about how anatomically human— anatomically similar humans existed a long time ago. Like, why would we assume that civilization and complex thinking and toolmaking and technology only emerged in the last couple hundred years when the exact same species existed hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of years ago?

Yeah.

Isn't it possible that something, some human a long time ago had figured out some stuff and we have no evidence of it anymore because of just natural wear and the weathering and the Earth absorbs things and there's nothing left?

Yeah.

That seems more logical.

Yeah. I completely agree. Yeah. I love Mike. He's great. Michael Button. Yeah. He's great. It was one of the things, honestly, I'd just really quickly— I've loved watching the last year and a half since I've been on here, Left. Why, you just kind of went through my litany of friends and stuck them in this chair one after the fucking other. It's like, hey, that's Luke. Hey, I know that cock. I know that guy. That was really good to see, man. Um, but, uh, fun.

It's a fun time. It's a fun time to get cool people to talk about cool shit.

And, and the, the passion that these guys have, like you say, that's honestly, um, it's a huge thing. You know, Duncan gave me a really good, really good compliment. Duncan Trussell saying that I was like, that I was all passionate like a fucking Whoa, what's that guy that did all calculus and stuff? The old school Sir Isaac Newton. And I was like, damn, I don't think I'm like that, but thank you. Probably got as many chemicals in my body, but—

Was Isaac Newton a tripper?

No, no, he was an alchemist, so he like died of mercury poisoning.

Did he really?

This is one of the funniest things. I love saying this one on Twitter. I say it once every couple years. The world we live in now where they'll take a scientist and they'll say like, yeah, but this guy's political opinions are all skewed, so fuck this guy. It's like, you know what they would have done with Sir Isaac Newton? We wouldn't have the theory of gravity or calculus. They'd have been like, yeah, that guy denies the Trinity and he's fucking an alchemist. Why would I put up with this crazy guy's bullshit? It's like—

Right.

Yeah. But yeah, it's— this is one of the things I've actually come to a lot of terms with on my own little searching in this community is that there's a lot of people that I disagree with on fucking 80%, but that 20% that if they bring honest data to the table.

Yeah.

Like, and my best example of this goes all the way back to the 1880s, Carl Christian Rafen, or the 1830s even. He was an anthropologist. He believed that the Norse discovered America before Columbus, and the reason he believed this was because every time he'd see a rock with a glyph on it, he's like, man, them dumb Indians didn't know how to carve no fucking rocks. Granted, all their weapons are made out of stone, but anyway, they don't know how to make this, so must have been a white guy. So he does research, research, research, research, and eventually finds out that it was the Norse that be— now he was pissing up a rope with his fucking line of evidence, but he did honest research and he got us real data, right? So I'm finding a lot that I just have to like, I really don't like you, but okay, well, right, what do you got to say?

This is a part of the problem with the Atlantis thing, and this is why guys like Flint always connected to racism, because there were a group of people that were white supremacists that believed that the white race was responsible for Atlantis. But those are not, like, credible historians. These are also not in the same group of people as Graham or you or Ben van Kirkwyk or any of these people. No one is saying that. So to connect people to something like Atlantis, where there are problematic people that believed something that was racist, just because you're talking about Atlantis doesn't mean everybody who's investigating Atlantis is also problematic and racist. That's crazy.

Well, they say, well, it encouraged encourages racism. And I always jump with— they go, well, did you see how many— there's evidence, you see how many white supremacists cite this stuff. And I always go, well, you see how many white supremacists cite all kinds of statistics?

And drink water.

Poverty and crime and all these other things. Should we get rid of all of these statistics too? We should just quit gathering anything that a white supremacist might use? Do you remember the Mac Tonight commercial with the McDonald's Moon Man?

No.

Don't you remember years ago, like we were kids in the '80s, when I was a kid in the '80s, they had a big Moonman guy that was singing a Mack the Knife parody. When the clock strikes half past 6, babe, time to head for Golden Lion. Okay, about 15 years ago they started using a thing with like some weird voice chat and this guy's making racist memes. Does that mean that McDonald's is fucking racist, or does it just mean that racists will co-opt fucking anything, including Pepe the Frog?

Pepe the Frog is the best example.

Thank you.

That poor guy who made Pepe the Frog. That guy was like, that's not me!

And so, but so, and that's exactly what these guys do, man. We can't talk about anything without it being racist. It's like—

Well, that's just a way to dismiss you.

It's a way to weaponize and to drag other people in. Yeah. Hey man, this guy's talking shit about the pyramids. Yeah, whatever. Oh, he's also racist. Oh fuck, we got 5% of them came over. Cool. Yeah, it's really pathetic and You know, in all honesty, I get shit during the election cycles from friends and from fans for not supporting X, Y, or Z. And I always tell them the same thing. Look, Thutmose III or fucking Seti II, I talk about ancient history, bitch. I'm not talking about modern politics. That's not what I'm doing. It's not. And I'm certainly not going to endorse somebody on my platform. As a matter of fact, why do you care what Beyoncé says about this shit? Why do you care about any of these fuckers? Fuck, these people aren't political analysts. Why do you care that much? Why are you crawling up my ass about, well, yeah, but you know, you've got the— people want us to all be toeing a certain— it's funny, I swear to God, it's like the whole country's got like probably a third of us are little Hitlers. The whole world would be better if everybody just thought just like me.

It's like, fucking Christ.

And they think they're the open-minded, compassionate ones. It's really weird.

Yeah.

But it's just the nature of it. of the tribal world that we're living in right now, and it's so divided. And this is one of the giant problems with social media. And I think it's great that everyone has an opinion, and I think it's great that everyone gets to express an opinion. It doesn't mean that you should listen. It doesn't mean you should absorb it. It doesn't mean that it's a valid opinion. You'll find the valid opinions, but you have to sort through the bad ones. And this is how it's always going to be. There's always going to be that— how people have a take on it that you fiercely disagree with, the people who have the least charitable view of this person or this idea or this thing. You're always going to have a spectrum of ideas, and you have to allow it. That's how it is. And you have to counter that with a better perspective.

That's it.

And if you're coming at it from you want to silence and destroy everyone who disagrees with you, especially on something as complex as ancient history, like, that seems like you're doing a bad thing. That seems like you're denying the resource of all these obsessed people.

Yeah, I completely agree with you. As a matter of fact, I—

And if they're getting something wrong, like, yeah, have a conversation with those people and explain why they're getting something wrong. But be good faith about it.

The Society for American Archaeology's original bylaws, their very first law was, their intention was To cultivate a better relationship between interested amateurs and professional archaeologists and to offer help when requested to those interested amateurs. They're doing neither one of those things right now. Number one, they are pissing all over the relationship between people that are interested amateurs and the professional archaeologists. They can't even talk to each other anymore.

Well, don't you think that's also a little bit of jealousy because these interested amateurs have all of a sudden come to the forefront, and they're making money off of it.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. When Flint found out that I had supporters, he lost his shit. People pay him money for that? Oh my fucking God. Silly, silly to worry about that.

But it's also like just YouTube revenue. Guys like Ben Van Kirkwyk's videos get millions of views. Yeah, no, like there's, there's real money in it, and they're not making money.

No, not like that.

No.

They got to be pissed.

That's— I'm sure that's part of it. I went to school for this. But the other thing I— and again, in that bylaws, it says to offer help when requested to interested amateurs. When's the last time Graham Hancock asked one of these cocksuckers for their opinion? They don't. They give him the help whether he wants it or not. They've completely lost the plot. Even—

Well, the problem is the way they frame it. Like when they were talking about his Netflix show being one of the most dangerous shows on television, how is it dangerous to talk about evidence of a lost civilization? That seems insane.

Dude, their egos are at the fore— have you ever read that letter that they wrote to Netflix?

Yes.

Okay, they had 3 problems, right? And they list them: 1, 2, 3. Now, you would assume these are professional archaeologists and they're talking about Graham Hancock. You'd assume number 1 is he got a bunch of shit wrong.

Right.

No, number 1 is he talks shit about archaeologists and he doesn't listen to us. That was number 1. They couldn't even hide their ego in the fucking list.

It's like, it's just— Also not true.

They're petulant children, I swear to fucking God.

Also not true.

Yeah.

He listens.

Oh dude, he puts them on there.

Yeah.

The difference is he doesn't want to deal with the guy. If you're gonna come in and just poo-poo everything and say, no, that's not true, no, that's not true, no, that's not true, well then yeah, you're not gonna— I'm not gonna put up with that shit. You gotta have an actual conversation with me, sure. But if you're just—

What were the other 2 problems?

The other 2 problems, one was that he was wrong. Well, the other one was that it promotes white supremacy. And the best part about that is they say, because this theory— the exact wording is, this theory dates to 1882 and Ignatius Donnelly, blah blah blah. Ignatius Donnelly was a left-wing— he was liberal as fuck. He was a feminist and an abolitionist, but he was also a white dude in the 1800s. He's racist as fuck by modern standards, right? Just like all the archaeologists were back then. But don't bother with that. They pick him and they say, this guy's the one that started the problem. He's the one that created this theory. But you go back 20 years and Auguste Le Plignon and some other dude, I'm losing his name right now, but there were 2 French Americans that believed that the Maya were the Atlanteans, that the Maya had conquered the world, that the Maya were the master race, if you're going to look at it that way. But they're going to ignore that when they submit this stuff to Netflix because it doesn't— they wanted to make it sound like this entire shit was created to support white supremacy when it was actually not.

But they— so my point here is, in a debate where it constantly revolves around, you guys are lying about our past, they lie about what happened 15 fucking minutes ago on the internet where we can all see it, and then they wonder why we are like, ha, you guys do lie about the— fucking boneheads. Sorry.

So this guy, what was his theory? The first guy that is problematic even though he's a liberal and a feminist.

Oh, well, he believed that it was white supremacy. He believed that the 3 biblical races, you know, were of that, like Noah's 3 kids. Sam is the Semitic race, the Hamite race was the Africans, and then the other one ended up being the Aryans, that was the white people. And these 3 biblical races have— biblical racism, they call it. It's been like a thing for 1,000 years. But he just clung to that idea that it was basically these races of after post-Noah and all this. So, like, you know the story with Noah, like he got drunk afterwards?

No.

Oh, could you pull— you might want to pull this one up, Jimmy. Like, after it's all done, Noah gets all drunk and he's like laying around naked and one of his sons laughs at him and one of them doesn't. So, like, he curses the lowest of them and he praises the highest. And when you see the Bible verse, he was like, you're going to be the servants to this one and he can sleep in your tent whenever once, and you can see why this was used to promote racial superiority.

Oh, right.

But it's— that's where it came from. So, if they really wanted to, they could have been saying the Bible created racism and that was a problem.

But it's also very silly to connect the idea of ancient civilizations to one person. That's so silly.

It's so silly.

It's so silly.

Yeah.

When you're talking about evidence all over the world, We're talking about Baalbek. We're talking about the Maya. We're talking about the Egyptians. We're talking about all over the world, and you're going to connect it to white supremacy? Isn't it more plausible that we don't know what happened?

Just a little bit. I mean, but you got to understand, these guys are the ones that follow— like, I break your rule some and I argue with the people in the trenches, right? And the guys that follow Flint Dibble, they'll all the time, they'll make fun You believe in lost civilizations. And my answer is, do you think we found every civilization? Oh no. So you're just throwing around stupid shit, just talking crap.

The idea that there'd be evidence left over other than the stuff that we've already found, like, what are you looking for that's 100,000 years old? Yeah, it doesn't mean that there wasn't something going on 100,000 years ago. And it seems like there was definitely something going on at least 12,000 years ago. So that fucks up our whole timeline.

Oh yeah.

And they want to still attribute that to hunter-gatherers just for convenience. The idea that the Göbekli Tepe structures were made by hunter-gatherers, like, why would they do that?

Yeah.

How did they do that? How come they didn't make houses but they made that stuff?

Yeah.

How come?

Yeah, well, it's— that's a tough one, man. You know, uh—

What were their tools?

They're looking at, uh, you know, Karan Tepe. They're actually talking about covering that again, like covering like they did at Göbekli Tepe, which is fucked. I don't know if you know Megalithomania, uh, Hugh Newman. He's— there are not a lot of people that I would mention on your show, but he's definitely one of them. He's a badass. He's been doing this forever. And he's doing all this archaeoastronomy work out there at Karantepe, and they're covering it. They're getting ready to cover it, and he's just going, uh-uh.

Why are they covering it?

What they're claiming is for tourism, to protect the site and all this.

What do you think it is?

I don't know. That might well be I do know that—

How does it protect the site though if you don't allow— Keeps it from raining on it, I don't know.

But it's stone, right?

Yeah.

I mean, honestly, it gets weird when you look at the third world because— or poorer countries like that because my iPhone could feed a family over there for a month. So, it's like these guys are going to do— they've got a different set of priorities than us.

Right. But wouldn't you think that more more things getting exposed would equal more tourism, which would equal more revenue.

Yes and no. I did a video a while back about Zahi Hawass being a heel, like a wrestling heel. Deliberate. Dude, I'm 100% on this.

Really?

Oh yeah. I'm not saying that he doesn't do shady shit. I'm saying that he plays the villain. I'll give you some examples. There's a clip of him shortly after Arab Spring. He's talking about how to increase tourism. He has 2 things. One, you don't want tourists from any old country. You want Japanese, Americans, Chinese, Germans. You don't want the rest. You want people to come in and change your world. Second thing is, it doesn't matter what's happening in Egypt. Those New Age people, they come. It doesn't matter if it's Arab Spring. It doesn't matter if tourism's down by 40%. Those New Age people, they come. He's So then, did I find something? Yes, I found it. No, I didn't. No, I didn't. Yes, I did. Yes, I did. No, I didn't. No, I didn't. Yes, I did. It's— you're— come and investigate. Come and investigate. Come and look. Come and see for yourself. Come and pop into those little holes and look for yourself. Go look at the place that I told you there was nothing. I think honestly that's his whole reason that he's playing it to the hilt. And I think Lee Clare's doing the same thing right now.

If you watch Lee Clare on—

I don't know who that is.

Lee Clare is the archaeologist in charge of Göbekli Tepe. He's a big, big dude down on there. And if you look at him on Twitter, he's doing the exact same thing. He's constantly arguing, he's picking at Jimmy. I actually blocked the guy. I don't block many scientists, but I— that aren't constantly antagonistic towards me. He was— every day I'd wake up and more talking shit about me, just pissing everybody off. And the whole point, in my opinion, is to make it where people want to come and look at what you're— If something's being hidden, you have to have a villain hiding it, right? Give me a touchstone so What the fuck is Zahi Hawass? Think about it. What is Zahi Hawass hiding? Is that a crazy statement to make? No, it's not. And I think he cultivated that. I think that's an image that he made to increase tourist revenue.

So you think he created this character to make it so that people wanna combat against him and then go there and see and look around?

Spend money.

Yeah.

Really? Yeah. I don't think that's the whole scheme.

I think you went a little too tinfoil hat. I think it's a little more simple Yeah. I think he's been in control of the narrative there for a long time. And there's also some weird stuff with things missing.

Oh, no, I'm not saying that he didn't steal stuff.

The weird stuff with things missing is like, you would want to really control the narrative if, like, skeletons that you reported discovering, then you say there's no skeletons, right? Isn't there one of those in one of the sarcophaguses?

Yeah, Jimmy was hammering away at that one.

There was an original story from, like, the '80s That they found the skeleton.

And they're just, no, no skeleton.

And the problem is what we were talking about before, that there are wealthy people that will pay you an enormous amount of money for the skeleton. So if you got some dude, you know, he's got Saudi Arabian money and he's like, you know what would be dope? I want a fucking Egyptian mummy in my house, you know? And people had them. I mean, this was the thing that people were eating them. Yes, yes, yes.

God. When I told Danny Jones that, he's like, what the fuck?

Pull that up now! Yeah, people would have these mummy unwrapping parties at their homes, these very wealthy people, and they would eat the mummies.

I bet you a lot of those elongated skulls ended up in similar—

I know, but like, whose house? How many houses? Who are these people? Like, how does no one tell on them?

I don't know, but I mean, if you look at what, you know, 5 years ago I would have said, dude, I don't know about all this, man. But now you look at that island, you're like, ah!

What would you do if somebody gave you an elongated skull? Would you give it to a museum? Like, what would you do? Like, if somebody gave you one of those really dope Peruvian skulls that are crazy without the sagittal suture, you're looking at the enormous brain capacity, the size of the head, like, what the— the size of the eye sockets.

I had scientist after scientist finger-fucking that thing till we got somewhere.

Right, but would you bring it somewhere? Where other people could see it? Would you allow the scientists to take control of it and to take hold of it? Because this is my friend John Reeves up in Alaska. You know, he's had some real issues with that.

Yeah.

Where they'll take bones and then they'll go, nope, never getting them back.

Yeah, and they'll end up in the bottom of the harbor.

Yeah, and he won't— but this is before his time. But yeah, they did that. Was that the American Museum of Natural History?

Was that it?

the thing he does now is like, if you want to do work on these bones, you got to come to Alaska.

Yeah.

And he built a whole scientific research building.

And well, it makes sense.

Yeah. He's like, I don't trust any of you motherfuckers.

Hell, you know where the Baghdad Battery is right now, don't you?

Where?

Nobody knows. It was grabbed by alphabet boys at the beginning of the 2000s. Which alphabet boys? Ours.

But which one?

I'm not sure.

Might be one we don't even know about.

All I know is it— I'm just gonna say, I doubt that the soldier that went in there there had decided he wanted that thing for himself.

Right.

But speaking of the Baghdad Battery, I got a cool little theory on that. I don't know if you've ever seen that, but I don't think it was for electricity. I think it was to separate metal. If you were to use for the electrolyte, if you were to take mine runoff that had like gold and silver and copper and iron and nickel and manganese, all that bullshit, you put it in that thing, after a while, that exact cell that we had, the copper would have a buildup of gold, copper, and silver, all the other shit would go to the bottom. So you could— it would— I think it was a way for them to like separate. And I think that the discovery of this would be super easy. Drop a copper coin and a metal nail into a puddle of that and come back in 2 days, and you're going to see the buildup of gold on that coin. And so this explains why inside of the thing, like, there's no residue at all, which is one of the reasons they say it didn't happen. Well, they were harvesting the residue, is my— in my And this is why you couldn't—

Wouldn't there be trace amounts even if they were harvested?

Now that's where it would be nice to test it now. It hasn't been looked at in a long time, you know. It hasn't been— been hard— it hasn't been tested for anything in a while.

Where is it?

It's gone. It's in somebody— it's right next to those skulls and those mummies. It's on some dude's shelf that will—

Really?

Yes.

This is a picture of a street mummy seller in 1875.

Jesus Christ.

So this article on Big Think was saying that this was so popular from 1200 to about 18th— or sorry, the 12th century to 18th century— that they kind of ran out of mummies.

Yeah.

And imagine you could fly over there and pick up a mummy.

Well, that's before these parties were even happening. Imagine if they had one of those in the corner over there.

No, they thought it was medicine.

Yeah, mumia. And imagine about this once before, but there's these— this shit exists all over the place.

And I wonder if any of them would have been better than Coop.

Go to Lot 99 Apothecary Antiques, right up there in the upper left.

Yeah.

What? Look at that. Apothecary. So this is like medicine. Mummia. So it's like mummy juice.

This article gets fucking gross.

Mummy powder, you sprinkle it on your steak.

There were so many— they were so popular for a long time, they disappeared kind of. It was hard to get them, so they started forging mummy bodies.

Oh my god. How dark is it that people bought all the dead bodies?

Not all doctors thought dry old mummies made the best medicine. Some doctors believed that fresh meat and blood had a vitality the long dead lacked. Those guys went to the islands.

Napoleon was bringing them back, and then they would have some parties, quote-unquote parties, but that was just still like they were doing like research almost, if you could say, like some medicine research. And then that didn't last. That was like 30 years of that, and then they just started having actual parties to show how rich you were.

What the fuck? Hold up, pause right here. 1834, the surgeon Thomas Pettigrew unwrapped a mummy at the Royal College of Surgeons. In his time, autopsies and operations took place in public, and this unwrapping was just another public medical event. Soon after— soon even the pretense of medical research was lost. By now, mummies were no longer medicinal but thrilling. A dinner host who can entertain an audience while unwrapping was rich enough to own an actual mummy. The thrill of seeing dried flesh and bones appearing as bandages came off meant people flocked to these unwrappings, whether in a private home or the theater of a learned society. Strong drink meant audiences were loud and appreciative.

And then at some point, they tried to say that you were getting cursed by doing this.

Oh, yeah, for sure.

But that wasn't— Didn't the people that found Tutankhamun's tomb, didn't they all die?

That's what this comes up with. with Nexus 2 in common. Yeah, sudden death of Lord Carnarvon.

Mm-hmm.

Well, I mean, you can understand why people would think that too. I mean, you're going around and not just defiling the grave, man, you eat the motherfucker. Come on.

Oh, so it might— there might be something to a curse like that. Oh yeah, especially if you believe it. That's the problem. That's how I think voodoo really works. If you really believe that someone could put a hex on you. You're like, oh no.

I was joking with this hippie girl in Sedona about that. She was telling me about practical magic.

Look at this. Today, the black market of antiquity smuggling, including mummies, is worth about $3 billion. So today, still the black market right now, $3 billion a year.

A year?

Is that a year?

Yeah, yeah. That's a lot. Yeah, it's a fortune. That's a fortune.

And just in shit that should be in a museum, $3 billion a year. Yeah, it just makes sense, man. We see people that are just fucking insane, and they're rich, and they just want a thing that no one— that's like the whole thing about like rhino horn, right? They want to drink rhino horn tea because nobody could get it because it's illegal.

Yep.

You guys are talking about the Rockefellers earlier, and I thought there's a museum started in Jerusalem where they're the Rockefeller Archaeological Museum.

Mm-hmm.

They had 60,000 artifacts dating back to 2 million years ago, including a reported 100,000-year-old skeleton, almost complete.

Damn. Whoa, what happened?

They also had another one that was 6,500 years old that a while ago was being reported as Noah. This is where the Dead Sea Scrolls were for a while until they were taken over and then moved to the Dead Sea Scrolls, a different museum, now that Israel has been officially formed, because they were there when it wasn't actually officially Israel, I guess.

Wow.

And there's a copper scroll I just stumbled across I didn't know about that was moved to Amman and is now part of the Jordan Museum.

Wow.

What's that one?

That looks—

oh, metal and tin.

That was part of the Dead Sea Scrolls?

Mm-hmm.

And it was made out of copper? Whoa. Well, that's a replica.

Well, that part is probably, I guess. But yeah, I said it was found in Cave 3.

Mm.

Where everything else is written on parchment, this was written on metal.

Holy shit.

That's insane.

Copper mixed with about 1% tin. Although no metallic copper remained in the strips, the action of the centuries had been to convert the metal into brittle oxide.

Unlike the others, it's not a literary work but a list of 64 places where various items of gold and silver were buried or hidden. Not a story, it's a treasure map. Wow, a treasure map written on copper in a day when copper was a treasure.

Wow.

Yeah, and this is a facsimile, is now on display.

There's got to be so much we're missing.

Oh, so much we're missing.

So much buried stuff. So much. Like, just think of sub-Saharan Africa used to be lush and green. Like, what is under there? What's under there?

Yeah, that's dead on. Exactly. All across, there's so many places in the world that are that way, if you ask me. That's like Easter Island, when the sea levels were lower and that thing was a lot bigger and it was part of a series of islands that jumped from one to the next. You know what navels of the world are, right?

What?

Navels of the world, like—

Navel?

Yeah, like the world— like the Yggdrasil, the world tree, right? Like connects the underworld here and heavens. This idea is super common through— Cusco had one. The Wailing Wall is one. You're gonna go kiss the wall? That's good. That's a world navel. These are always— the Oracle at Delphi, world navel. These are always centers of the society.

Right.

Jerusalem, Delphi, Cusco, except for there's one at Easter Island, Island, the far-flung corner of the Polynesian Empire, has a world naval. But if you lower the sea levels and look at that as a string of islands, all of a sudden it is the center of the empire. So I really like to ask an area— out of all the places on the planet, I think Easter Island has the most that if we were to— because it's been dug at the least and has a lot there still. I mean, it's been looted hard, but it hasn't been looted like Rome has been or Egypt has been, not even close. And I think that— I think honestly that there's going to be a lot more the more that we look. I think unfortunately stuff happens too quick. We find the stuff and 2 days later it becomes like the tridactyl mummies. 2 days later it becomes a news story. Half the world, like you say, everything's all polarized now. You can even pick and choose your fucking scientists when it comes to medicine nowadays, Joe. It's completely polarized.

Yeah.

So when it comes to something like archaeology, hey, fucking, who do you want? What side of the table do you want? You'll find somebody with credentials or close enough that'll get in line with you and So I was talking to a friend of mine about the South American stuff.

He said the cartels are a huge problem because they realize this $3 billion thing of selling these antiquities, and they're selling stuff to people.

Luke told me— Luke Caverns— he told me that he witnessed that when he was down there. There was a couple of places he went that he couldn't go into because there were guys with guns out in front. Oh wow.

So they realized like, hey, someone's gonna give me $5 million for this Yeah, yeah, that's, that's—

and so we, again, we lose, we lose everything. We lose all the context.

How are they not losing those mummified tridactyl skeletons?

I'm not really sure. That's a good question.

You know, yeah, I would imagine those are super— imagine we have one of those sitting on the table right here.

That'd be pretty cool. That would be pretty cool.

I wonder how much we have to pay for one of those. Um, probably quite a bit.

Well, To that part of the world, you might get away with $250 grand like they did those codices. The Mexican government, like I was saying, they bought those codices pretty cheap, man. $250 grand's a lot, but it ain't a lot when you start talking about like— well, I said that to Matt Bell, if you know who Matt Bell is. He was like, that's nothing. Well, of course to him it's nothing, but immediately the guy that has the money, the $250 grand, right? Fucking put that on my shelf. Yeah, frame that bitch.

Meanwhile, he could have probably auctioned that.

No, it was a family who was afraid to. And honestly, that family had been holding it for like 500 years. years. And in all honesty, I bet they were afraid. I honestly, the way things go, I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some strong arming that went on there. Like, you can either get paid for it—

Right, or we take it.

Just like with the mob. Do you want paid off for this or do you want beat on the head?

Right, right. It's just, you wonder how much is lost. Like the burning of the Library of Alexandria, all these different instances throughout history, the burning of the Codices This is from Peru.

This is a website that's got art from ancient Peru for sale.

For sale?

Yeah, there's tons of interesting stuff here.

But the question is, how do you know if it's authentic?

That's a huge—

Because there's a lot of this stuff that's counterfeit. Whoa, that's dope. Look at that mask.

It shows the provenance of it. So this one came from an archaeologist from 1938.

How much does that cost?

It says $3,500 or something.

Should we get one?

$4,850.

How big is it?

I'm not buying one.

You are? Would you get cursed?

No, I've— that's— well, says $4,850 or something. I better be able to drive it around or smoke it once.

Egyptian bronze cobra.

Wow, somebody bought that for $2,000.

Wow. Add to cart right now.

Wow.

Bam.

Kind of sick.

I was honestly—

How old is it? Uh, 664 to 30 BCE.

Wow. Ex-private New York City Egyptologist collection.

Private New York City?

Yeah, the provenance is weird on all these. It's coming— everything's coming from different places.

Yeah, it's interesting because that's not that expensive for what it is. You got a piece of Egyptian history.

Yeah, well, the provenance thing's kind of a big deal. If the provenance on them's solid and it's after a certain date, you can't sell them.

Show me what that image looks Looks like. So how come you— how come this person can sell this?

Yeah, because the provenance is going to come before that date. Like, they're going to have been found before that date.

It's like legally acquired.

Yes.

So if it wasn't legally acquired, I bet they'd get you.

So the laws are probably much stricter now than when they acquired it?

Yeah, there's like— it's kind of like assault rifles where there's like a time when you can— it's okay to have bought them, but if you bought it after that date, you can't have it.

Or like pre-ban ivory.

Thank you. Yeah, same kind of thing. It's like, if you got that, you've had this artifact on your family— we're not gonna go raiding the Rockefeller shelves, but you know, the rest of you fuckers can't have any new ones.

You get a gold-winged deity pendant for $67 grand.

Gold Shaman.

Yo, damn, son. Bro, he got 6 fingers.

Thickest. What's that from?

Oh, and also look, he's got I guess we say a monkey on top of his head like that.

And a 2 on the side.

Why does it say price on request?

Maybe that's estimated here.

So when it says gold standing shaman, is that actual gold? Made out of gold?

There it is, 89% gold.

What? You can just buy that? Well, look how dope he looks. Look at the image on the side. Go to the side view. The other one.

It's like it's made in China.

Well, it's hollow.

I'm— that's what I'm saying.

Yeah, that kind of has to be hollow.

Oh, fuck.

Weigh £100. Yeah, look at that. What a sick-looking thing. Show me the front-facing view again. That is wild, wild, man. And how old is this supposed to be? Fuck, that's cool. That would bring you good luck. Put that on your desk.

Monkey luck. Oh man, he's got some nipples.

Oh, does he? Oh, when I was looking at things hanging around, I hope he doesn't have trophy skulls.

Could be.

Yeah, looks like his hands. Looks like those are cups, but they're faces.

They look— but they're staying with the heads up there.

They do look like heads. Does he have 2 heads in his hands?

He's got way more than 5 fingers. Yeah, he's got 7. Maybe even 8 if he's got a thumb.

Again, you can meet that guy, 3 hits of DMT. He's out there. Like, show me the face-forward version at the top.

This one's been in Alabama for a while, Sid.

Wow, crazy. I'm sorry, and how old is it again?

That's what I was trying to look up.

500 to 1520 AD.

Either way, that's nuts.

That's pretty interesting.

100— you could put it on a chain.

Weighs 148 grams. What's that in a pound?

I don't think it's a lot. 28?

We're all doing weed math now.

Half a pound, maybe.

We're doing weed math. Okay, what is it?

128 grams in pounds. Yeah, 0.£28, a quarter of a pound. Wow, pretty sick.

That is cool.

Just makes you wonder, like, what were they trying to— what is that? What is that guy? Is that a guy you see when you trip? Because it seems like it, especially he's all gold. It seems like something you would see if you're tripping.

Yeah, a lot of this See, a lot of it gets really difficult for me because then I wonder about like our iconography. And it's like, you know, somebody could look at something like that belt and be like, I wonder what the symbolism is behind that belt. At the end of the day, it's like, no, no symbolism. It's just, it looks cool, man.

Or a mascot for a team, you know?

Exactly. Why is everybody worshiping this Spuds McKenzie belt?

Right, right, right, right. Why is everybody making the bullhorns at the UT game?

Yeah. But some of these things are clearly religious and spiritual and stand the test of time. Like, there's a lot of things— the honoring of people with deformations down there went for thousands of years. I mean, this went from the Olmec all the way up till the time that the Spaniards show up.

I think what's really fascinating is there's so many things that point to South America, so many things that point particularly to Peru. So many things. When you look at the megalithic architecture, especially the oldest stuff, the weird crazy shapes, and then you also look at the elongated heads, and then you also look at the artwork that you can only see from the sky, and like, how many of these fucking things do you have to see before you went, what was going on here?

You should look at some of their textiles that they made in Paracas. Like I showed that little monkey thing, those guys were so good. If you don't mind pulling up a picture of Paracas textiles, Jamie. They were so fucking amazing that these— like, when I first read about them, I was like, meh. And then I looked at some pictures and these are like, they're otherworldly. These— to think that these things were being made over 1,000 years ago, 2,000 years ago. When you, when you see them, they are— they're a bunch of little people with just the feathers pointed to one side like they're in motion dancing each shit. Like, pick that— like that one you're on right now, Jamie, is a great one. No, the yellow one you were hovering over, the ones with the people. Look at that, that's a textile. Look at that shit, 2,000 years old. Look at fucking how beautiful that is, how well-made that is.

Again, you can see that if you trip.

Yeah, it's very—

it's very trippy, right?

Like, it is—

it's very psychedelic looking.

It's very psychedelic. But then you consider that that same culture was doing all these brain surgeries. They were doing the lines on the ground you were talking about. They were modifying skulls. They were building things. They were— and they had people, artisans like this. This was a culture. This was a full-blown civilization that was above and beyond anything that we'd given credit to at this time. I mean, look at— yeah, definitely DMT looking, but also, holy shit, man, look at how artistic that is. I know.

Look at the little faces that are coming out of his whatever the fuck's wrapped around his nose.

That boy's having a bad trip.

Just wild.

It is.

Wild art.

And beautiful. So beautiful. And so, like everything else in that culture, they were just— it just seemed to be so massively ahead of all their contemporaries. Again, they had that symbol, that Paracas candelabra is visible 12 miles out to sea.

Right.

And you could think about hopping down the coast looking for that. You could think about guys from Easter Island looking for that or from Polynesia looking for that. We've got DNA that supports all that. There's a genetic drift both directions. It looks like people went from Easter Island to Peru and then back is what it looks like according to the genetics.

And that was the big sign, like, welcome.

Yeah, that's my thinking. I mean, and again, it's like, hey, here we're mingling all— even if it was just here's is the guys from the islands and here's the guys from up north and here's us. It still seems like a symbol of like a mixing to me, like a convergence.

Wow.

And the DNA stuff, again, that's where it really all got me going on it because it's just— you pick your genetic deformation and you see it there. Again, with the back of the skull, that's just, to me, it's like smoking gun. It's like, why were they doing this? Well, here's a very solid, real explanation. And then think about like the evolutionary arms race. This culture is working on bigger brains that can— that has all the intelligence of this species and the ability to see and hear that this species has. And we're trying to get the best of both worlds, and these guys aren't. You're gonna get wiped out by us in 1,000 years, 5,000, 10,000. Evolution is gonna kill you off and prop these up. I think it happened all over the fucking world, and Paracas is just the last place that was still doing it. But I think that that elongated skulls, that's why we see it all over the world. world. As soon as humans, as soon as Homo sapiens and archaic lineages with bigger brains than us in the back started mingling, I think this was like a requirement.

This is all post-Younger Dryas impact too.

Right around— that's like the oldest skulls that we know of are around 10,000 BC.

The oldest?

Yes, that we know of are the oldest elongated.

Which is post?

Yes, just right at the— right afterwards.

Right afterwards.

In China.

So, that's the other part question is, like, if there was a cataclysmic event that wiped out vast chunks of civilization, how much was left? How much survived? Because it seemed like South America didn't get hit as hard as North America and parts of Europe and Asia, right?

Yeah, and Africa was almost unscathed.

Right, right, right, right.

Comparably, at least according to the megafaunas, right?

Right, which is— so that gets real weird.

It does.

It's like, so, okay, were those people down in South America fine? And what happened? Was that where advanced civilization existed on Earth and the only place? Because advanced civilization in these other places had been wiped out?

Yeah, that's— honestly, I think that that makes the most sense to me.

And what happened to them? That's the real question.

Well, the Paracas people?

Yeah.

What happened before the flood?

Well, what happened to the people that built these megalithic structures? What happened to the society that existed? Like, was it just time?

Yeah, I think so. Like, they still had, you know, by the time of the Spanish showing up, the Inca were still doing those trephinations in the skull so well that they were up to an 80% survival rate. The Civil War was about 40%, by the way, like our Civil War doctors in the American Civil War, the only Civil War, our doctors were about at 40%, about half as good as the Inca at drilling holes in heads and letting somebody through. I mean, fuck, dude.

And why were they drilling holes in heads?

Same reason, because it relieves pressure. So like, um, like I'm saying that they were doing it as one of the reasons to relieve the pressure from the headache, but if you just get it— somebody hits you in the head hard enough, you're gonna swell up in the brain. You got to relieve pressure, so they drill a hole, they get it out. Um, this was, uh, yeah, a lot of the musket balls that didn't kill a man outright would leave water on the brain kind of thing. So they'd have to do what they could to relieve the pressure.

Oi.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's ugly when you— I would not want to have— if I would have got shot in the Civil War battlefield knowing what I know now, I'd say just fucking shoot me right here and finish the job.

So my question is like, why don't we see people that live in Peru with larger heads and elongated skulls today?

Probably because it's illegal to do it.

Is that it? Is it just a deformation thing, or is it a deformation thing, you know, manipulated thing on top of a cranial deformation that's natural?

Yeah, no, if it was the partial natural cranial deformation, I think eventually that would have been bred to be smaller and smaller, less of a pronounced issue, as those— like I was showing those bones in the back that basically do the play and stuff. I think that over time that we would evolve more accommodating things for it, but that it's still— I mean, we still have people that have those Chiari malformations today. That CAT scan wasn't from 2,000 years ago. People still have this issue. But I think that over time, the ones that were too bad at it, their brains are just too fucking big, they're going to die off. And honestly, I think that there was probably some of that Inca type of clan warfare going on. Now that's just complete speculation.

Mm-hmm.

But I mean there was something— I don't know— there was something about 1,000 years ago that caused all the cliff dwellers and all that shit. Like there was— none of these people lived in the cliff dwellings like 2,000 years ago and then they all moved into the cliffs and they all stayed for like 100 years and they came back out. Like there was some war going on. You'd see a tribe of about 5,000 people would split up into a bunch of little bands of 500 or 200 or at the most 50. The Gila Cliff Dwellings they say had about 60 people that lived in them. 60. That's nothing, and they came from a place of about 1,000.

So you think they were trying to survive raiders?

I think that it was pretty clearly warfare. And an interesting side note, something that I've never— I went to the Gila Cliff Dwellings when I came through here last month, and I drove— a buddy of mine, we drove through New Mexico and the big old oil fields of Texas, and we stopped at the Gila Cliff Dwellings. And so I looked them up afterwards to make my video about And they redacted. The artifacts and shit are redacted. It looks like reading the fucking Epstein list emails. It's just like black bar, black bar, black bar, black bar. And what am I looking for? Just what they found.

And this is just the people that lived in the cliffs?

Yeah.

Like, why would they redact—

No, the archaeologists that— this is the peer-reviewed archaeology, like the papers that they submitted afterwards. They just— because of what they found. The explanation given is they redact information so that people don't go digging up shit, right? So they're like, okay, except for in the same paper, it says we didn't dig here and we think there's artifacts here a few different times. They're redacting the things that they found and the people that took them, and on some occasions where they were found. And it's not the only thing in the Southwest that's that way. The more I look, I see it's fairly common.

Why do you think they're doing that?

They're finding some they don't want people to know. Maybe they're selling on the black market would be the most obvious explanation, but like the most mundane, But when it becomes a ubiquitous problem, you say— the short answer is the same as why they cover up the Shoah and the Epstein list, to cover it up, to hide it. There's something there they don't want you to know. And what for sure? I don't know. I can't read into the black bars.

What could you even speculate? Like, what would they be trying to hide from cliff-dwelling civilizations?

It could be nothing more than an out-of-place artifact. It could be—

An out-of-place artifact?

An out-of-place artifact. How so? Like, what do you mean? I mean, like what we consider the Antikythera mechanism to be, something that's more advanced for its time. So, you know, if they just found something that— say they don't think that these guys could work iron and they found an iron arrowhead there that wasn't a trade piece, it was pre-Columbian.

You think they would redact that?

I don't know, but I know they redacted a lot.

But is a possible explanation that they just redacted where these things were so that people wouldn't go back to the area?

And it would be if they didn't have so much of the stuff that was— like, you have to— like, it'll say, we went to this site and we found black bar. And then we went to this site and we found black bar.

Right.

So-and-so took black bar. And then it'll be another site that it says, at this site, we thought there would be some artifacts, but we haven't dug yet. Well, why is that site not black bar? That's the one that's— I'm— that I'm— out of all of them, that's the one I want to go to, because that's the one you said there's still shit left to dig up.

Right.

But that's the one, and according to their explanation, that's the one they'd black bar. But they don't black bar that one. They black— so it honestly looks convoluted. It looks like they're selling a false bill of goods with that. I haven't—

What are the other possibilities of the reason why they would redact it other than out-of-place artifacts?

The first one, like, honestly, the most mundane is just to sell stuff. That's a really cool fucking piece. I'm gonna go sell it to Rockefeller.

And that could be it.

That could be it.

And that way they don't have to say what was there. They redact it, and then there's no need to explain where it went.

That's right.

That makes more sense.

That makes the most sense.

It makes the most sense.

It does make the most sense.

That's got money.

Straight and mundane. Yeah. Yep.

And people love those things.

But it's become— like I say, it's all over the Southwest. It's not just one or two sites. I just stumbled onto it because I was looking up the Gila Cliff Dwellings because it happened to have been there.

Mm-hmm.

And that's where— I mean, I haven't dug into it enough to put it all together, but it's, you know, when I was here last time, the cover-up stuff was something I was a whole lot less liable— I was a whole lot less accepting of a top-down kind of cover-up thing. But the skull stuff has honestly got me where it's just like, dude, there's too much of this information that disappears as I use it. I quote I'll put it in the link in the video, and 2 weeks later I can't fucking find it again. It's like, at a certain point it becomes quite obvious that something's being hidden when, when the maps change over 100 years and we lose information. You get on Google and ask for the Island of Niue elongated skull, and it'll tell you it never happened. But then you can bring up a bunch of expeditions of people that had them from the— it's, it's constant. It's a constant. The information is just not easily accessible. It's hidden, it's covered up, and I don't know why. 100% don't know why. I've got some suspicions. I think some of it probably has to do with, like, people's belief systems as to where we came from.

You know, like, to give you an example, like archaeology, like science in general fought against the idea of gradualism and catastrophism depending on— in the early days of science, it was out to prove the Bible. So, things like erosion weren't what was looked at. It was things like floods and the walls of Jericho collapsing. But then evolution and then geology, it's about the same time, it's really slow, gradual, so it became gradualism was the rule of the day. And I shit you not, these 2 did not become melded together in what they call punctuated equilibrium until 1980 with the discovery of the K-T impact disaster, the whole Chicxulub crater. When they accepted that, the scientific community finally figured out what a fucking 5-year-old could tell you that looked out the window every day. Sometimes things happen slowly and gradually. Other times things happen catastrophically and fast. It took science 100 years to wrap its fucking head around that because of preconceived ideas based on the Bible and where we came from. So I wouldn't be surprised at all if that same kind of psychology was here. Evolution's bullshit, or this proves— who knows? But it seems like the psychology side of it seems most likely to me that there's some underlying reason that they just just pushing a narrative and that this flies in the face of it.

But again, that's total speculation on my part.

One of the weirdest aspects of this whole UAP thing was that there were supposedly meetings with pastors where they were talking about some imminent disclosure that was going to be very disturbing to some of their people. And the speculation was that it was some sort of evidence of human engineering, like that human beings had been genetically engineered. engineered, and that religion itself had been made by extraterrestrials in order to placate mankind and keep everybody calm and together.

Sure. I mean, that's— it's interesting stories, but—

But the weirdest one, like all the religion stuff made by aliens seems goofy. People made by aliens seems less goofy. It seems like something we would If you went to another planet and you found monkeys and you said, well, let's take these monkeys and add a little, do a little of this, do a little of that. I mean, that— if there's evidence that people were doing that in Peru, if that's real, we know that the Nazis were eugenists. We know that that's a concept, that people do things like that. We know that we engage in genetic engineering of animals. We know that we brought back the dire wolf. Like, there's, there's a lot of weird stuff that we do. Now imagine something infinitely more advanced than us that finds us and goes, a lot of potential in these genes, but add a little. Cut, cut 100 million years out of the fucking evolutionary biological process. Let's just fucking ramp these motherfuckers up right quick.

Go the Zacharias Stetson route and make them lust for gold and silver, and then every so often we'll just come back, raid Fort Knox, It's also the Book of Enoch. Yeah, it's really interesting. There's a lot of these things that do seem to line up with it. It's, you know, the Ancient Aliens stuff is—

Super weird.

Well, it is. Like, I, you know, it's honestly using the same kind of thinking that you were just using on the black bars. It's like, it's always— the aliens are always the last thing I want to posit because it's just the most unlikely.

That's where you and me differ.

Well, like, you know, I was one of the Ancient Aliens guys. David Childress. I was in his living room talking with him about it, and he couldn't quite get where my brain is on this, because I'm skeptical but not, I guess. And I told him, basically, I said, look at it like this. If you walked into the bathroom right now and you came back in here and your wallet was missing, now I could tell you that a dog came in here and grabbed your wallet and ran out the door with it. I could tell you an alien came in here and grabbed your wallet and ran out the door with it, but you're gonna think that I fucking did it. And that doesn't mean there's no aliens. It doesn't mean there's no dogs. It just means that we all know what's most likely. And you really use that, that it's just like with the black bars. It's like, yeah, maybe it's an out-of-place artifact, or maybe he's just selling it to some fucking cocksucker.

Mm-hmm.

And so it's all— that's where I always— I'm not opposed to the idea of ancient aliens, but you gotta get me there. But then on the flip side, like what you said about them changing us, I mean, you could take that even to the nth degree. Look at like, you've seen the idea that the pyramids were chemical purification plants, the Land of Chem? him, right? One of the things that he says jokingly, but he'll say, you know, if an alien race came here and you were trying to set up shop, one of the first things you would do would be set up ways to like make chemicals and make the stuff that you need to make your society, and you would use what was local and what was available. And that does jive, right? It does make sense. So there's always— I mean, I'm not completely opposed to the ideas, but there's some things that the Occam's razor is a lot sharper on some things than others, I guess you could put it.

But it, you know, I agree. But I think the most complexing, most perplexing part about the pyramids is just that they exist at all.

Agreed.

That they exist at all and that they're 4,500 years old at least. Like, it's— it doesn't make sense.

Not even remotely.

It just doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense that something that is so involved and so massive and so complex And clearly has a tremendous amount of planning and geometry, understanding of so many different aspects of construction that we have no idea how they accomplished it. There's just too many, too many things that line up with that where you just go, what is going on? Like, isn't it possible that we're missing something?

Absolutely. We're definitely missing something with the pyramids. I mean, This is— they think it was 28 years that the Great Pyramid was built in. 28 years.

Based on?

Based on written records and their assumptions that Herodotus was right when he wrote about that part. They just disregard the rest. Herodotus wrote about that maze at Saqqara? Fuck that noise. 28-year pyramid? Yeah. And I've told so many archaeologists, why don't you go build a fucking fire pit in your backyard with cinder blocks and get back to me on that 28-year pyramid? It's like you guys have— you don't own a fucking tool belt. Go. There is no way. Well, you could have it and you'd have all these teams of people doing all that.

There's millions of stones.

I worked as a construction— I worked in construction for a long time.

And this is the one in China.

Architects and engineers fuck shit up.

Yeah. Yes, that one's nuts.

I saw this one recently, but the thing I thought was very strange, they said it was abandoned in like the 14th century. Uh, the Yangsheng Quarry. These nubs are on this thing. We've talked about the nubs being on many different pieces.

They're everywhere, all over the world.

They were saying that they had a— they must have clearly had a plan, obviously, when they were starting to make it. So the nubs were cut on purpose, but it's— they then abandoned it because they figured that they were— they made them too big to move, which is kind of that fucking They had good planning, but then they also had bad planning.

So do you think the nubs were involved in the lifting and maneuvering of these things?

I would— not of that one.

I mean, that would have to be the plan, I would say, if that's why they were purposefully here and they're all over it.

That one looks like it's carved right into the ground though, right into the rock. That doesn't look like a rock that was placed there. I might be wrong.

No, yeah, this was still like— they hadn't moved. These never got moved.

Yeah, right. So it's a— but it's a part of a quarry where things did get moved, right? That's what's really crazy. Like, look at that gap. If you go back to that last picture that you just had, look at the gap between those 2 stones. Now imagine that that was an individual piece of stone that was removed from that gap and somehow placed somewhere. And again, how long ago? And who fucking did it? Who did it? And how'd you do it? How'd you do that? What are you using?

Yes.

And to say that's not a mystery is fucking nuts.

I don't understand why they— why they want to get rid of the side of the mystery to begin with.

Look at how that looks. That looks like someone cut that out.

Well, I mean, they started to, but with what?

Right, but look how big it is. Look how big the slab is that's next to that structure, the one above it. The block where— yeah, that thing. Look how big that is. Like, was that cut out? It looks like it was cut out.

A little carving inside of it.

Yeah, there's a similar— I forgot, I'm trying to remember where it was in my head, but it looks like it's floating. I think it's in China too, where it looks like this, but it was put on top of like this very small little bit of water.

I know what you're talking about.

It's like a fortress or something. Damn. I don't want to sidetrack, but I'm gonna. Okay, I was looking into this elongated head thing. It was going on in France up until World War I.

Yep.

Whoa! And why? I'm finding a very interesting thing here.

A lot of Neanderthals in France.

Well, so they were— yeah, they were fashion, but baby bonnets were—

Turn to the left, fashion.

Why baby bonnets were tied on the babies' heads, they did it a little bit of fashion, a little bit for protection, But there's something here I kind of stumbled across on, and I'm like, if you go back further in history, it could make more sense that they're protecting them from spirits. And if you, you know, if you protect it, if you tied it tight enough, nothing's getting in there.

Oh boy.

And that reshaped the head, and it was—

Eyes bulging out like a trap.

Look at that poor kid. Oh God.

Not on purpose to reshape the head, but that's just what happened, you know.

Like, look at that baby.

Like I said, eyes bulging out like a mouse caught in a trap.

Oh, fuck, man.

Yeah, it might have been a protection to just like keep your— like, kids were dying for, you know, all sorts of reasons back then. If they thought something would get into their head to kill them too, they probably would do anything they could to protect them.

Yeah.

Now you can't increase the capacity.

Yeah, it didn't increase capacity is what I was saying.

Right.

Nothing.

That's what they say. It's— it— that one's—

I mean, could you?

Well, I don't know.

I'd probably stretch it.

Honestly don't know. I, I— it's, uh, that one's kind of frustrating just because it's— again, you You get— you can pick your expert. There's people that will say these elongated skulls have a higher capacity. There's people that say they don't. And since you can't go put your fingers on them, fucking pick your expert. Here we are again, right back where we started. You pick. What's your opinion? Well, that's the truth, my friend, and welcome to 2026.

Fuck. It's so interesting, particularly Peru. I mean, when you just— all the different things that point to a spectacularly odd society.

Oh, man. Yeah.

And you just go, what was it like, man?

What was—

what was reality for them? Why did they make those Nazca Lines? Why did they make those beautiful drawings that you could only see from the sky?

The Pacific Northwest has some shit that's pretty wild. There was Mount Coffin, which is the place that I told you where they saw those 3,000 burials. In the early 1900s, the Portland Star and Cement Company bought Mount Coffin. Coffin. And the pictures from before are— it's like a, um, basalt formation, and it looks partially modified. Um, I've got 3 pictures of it there, Jamie, if you don't mind. The first one was just, uh, Mount Coffin. It was like some people— I think it says basalt or something, but there's like some people on it. And the Portland Star and Gravel Company bought it, and they mined it all away. They— Daughters of the American Revolution tried to buy it. The Illuminati dude that was all like crazy— Yeah, that's, that's the picture of it there. There's a picture of a bunch of people standing on it, I think might be the next one over. Over. Um, it's like a bunch of, uh, dudes standing on this basalt formation. It's a skinnier pic, sorry, but you can kind of see there where it might be artificially modified. The locals say there was all kinds of cool treasure in there.

Now, the dude that built Longview, R.A. Long, Raw Long, um, built Longview in shape of a pyramid. The floor plan of Longview, not only has it got a pyramid floor plan, it's actually got a little, little, from the center going out like a little cul-de-sac that goes out like it's got the focal star from the pyramid coming out of it. It's fucking crazy, the floor plan of Longview. If you just— but the streets were paved, the 4 main pyramid arcs were paved with the gravel that came from that mountain. This, this, the town is like—

Can I see some images?

I'm stuck on the 1900s. Yeah, I'm trying to— I gotta restart.

Okay.

But yeah, the guy, it was pretty nuts. The guy was like, he was a member of the Freemason stuff. And they, again, they couldn't buy the mountain. They wouldn't sell it to him. But when he bought the gravel, he had the roads paved in these weird octagons or hexagons instead of, yeah, like a floor plan. You can see like that, see the from the center. Like, if you get a— and they're weird. And there's— if you get a straight top-down view, you can see—

I haven't found one yet.

Oh, I'm sorry. But yeah, you can see— there we go, getting better.

I think that's harder to see. Yeah.

Hmm. But yeah, just, just map of Longview, Washington. That picture there, the destruction of Mount Coffin, see how that— that's the one there that's got all these people on stuff, and they look like the basalt might have been partially made up, partially modified. They're not 100%, right? But there were a lot of rumors about treasures being pulled out of that while they were tearing it down. But by the time that this was all being done, there were already laws against destroying Native American mounds and sites and stuff. So, rail— this guy, uh, Long, was a lumber baron. He comes out there and wants to build up a lumber mill and stuff and all this crap. So he builds the town of Longview. It's a totally planned city. And then he built all this goofy pyramid shit. He's got— there's a statue of him in the middle of town with a girl handing him a rose, and she's holding a dozen roses and handing him the 13th, which apparently is some sort of weird Freemason shit. I don't know all their symbolism, but all kinds of goofy Freemason symbolism, right? And yeah, you see like the town's laid out as a pyramid and you see to the right, the center, how it goes out to that little circle on the side?

Uh-huh.

Like it's— this was— they've cut off the one line since then. No longer do they honor Long's original plan. They've actually— he had a statue of him that used to face the rising sun. They've relocated it. That town was fucking weird, man. And they went almost like they're trying to fight his mojo or something. But that's what he did when he stole the Indians' mojo. This was their burial mound. where they found their sacred—

Wow.

Fuck all that. Pave my streets with it. Make that my mojo. And then somebody else is in there now going, yeah, fuck your mojo. It's weird. And I don't need to believe in all the spiritual stuff, but H.P. Lovecraft has a great quote about that. He says, I don't need to believe in Santa Claus to know that people exchange gifts on December 25th. I can still follow your craziness even if I'm not crazy, right? And so in this case, they seem to be up to fucking some Crazy shit over there. But it just happens to be where biggest concentration of elongated skulls in history were.

Wow.

And if history doesn't record— when I say this shit, all the archaeologists, oh, there's no proof of it. Simple math. To be buried here, you had to be a noble. To be a noble, your skull had to be modified. 3,000 burials were reported, 3,000 elongated skulls. Not complicated here. Not tricky, but they'll argue with this to the end. Oh, Dan doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

Okay. What is your take on the Grand Canyon? The Grand Canyon stuff is really weird.

Talking about Kincaid's Cave and shit? Yeah. Yes, dude, that's again one of those things where it's like, you know, 2 years ago I'd have been like, yeah, it probably is Native American stuff. At this point now, I joked the last one of these, uh, Quest for Ancient Civilization things that we had, I joked on stage when They asked, they were talking about different things, and I said that the next time that we have some 9/11 type of shit and all the alphabet boys run back east, I'm fucking— brought off to the Grand Canyon. It's time, boys.

Well, right now you can't go into the area.

Yeah, because all the alphabet boys—

It's restricted.

Yeah.

There's a part of the Grand Canyon that's restricted because it's air quote too dangerous.

Or it's Native American sacred site, depending on who you ask.

Yeah, but I haven't heard that part.

Well, yeah, that's been the excuse. That's the explanation that I usually see.

Oh, that it's Native American sacred site.

Yes, sacred site.

Did they claim it sacred?

I don't know.

Because you would imagine the whole thing is sacred.

You would think.

Wouldn't you think that they were through— like, that's not stopped us before.

I was gonna say, all of a sudden we give a fuck? What about Mount Rushmore? But the fact—

right, the fact that it happens to coincidentally be the place where this guy said he found a cave with Egyptian art in it. Exactly.

That's where—

What year was that story?

Oh, I want to say 1920.

1909.

I'm off.

Sorry.

Let's see what is his report.

It's a hoax.

Yeah, of course it says it's a hoax. No, sorry. There were though.

There were hoaxes back then.

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah. There are a bunch of hoaxes. A bunch of people. There were contests to try to get your fucking hoax reported the most. Oh yeah.

I'm sure there's hoaxes. The Grand Canyon hoax though. The thing that's weird to me is that you can't go there.

Oh yeah.

A 1909 newspaper story claiming a a vast ancient underground city complete with mummies, copper tools, hieroglyphs, and Oriental, in quotes, or Egyptian-style artifacts have been discovered inside the canyon, overwhelmingly regarded as a period tall tale, not an archaeological discovery. In March 12th, 2009, J—

G.E.

Kincaid—

1909.

Excuse me, 1909. G.E. Kincaid, supposedly a lone explorer who had traveled the Colorado River from Green River, Wyoming to April 5th, 1909 paper dramatically expanded the claim. It said Kincaid had found a nearly inaccessible cave citadel in the canyon that Professor S.A. Jordan and the Smithsonian were investigating it. The article described hundreds of rooms, mummies in a crypt, copper and gold vessels, strange writing, a Buddha-like idol, granaries, and space for up to 50,000 inhabitants. Wait, what?

Yeah.

Said the inhabitants may have originated in Egypt or somewhere in the Orient.

But no, I do know that Jason guy, and he's, um, kind of a two-faced piece of crap, so I wouldn't trust everything that he says here. If he saw something that flew in the face of his narrative, he will not report it.

Who is this guy?

That Jason Colavito guy. He's a professional debunker that's, um, basically— yeah, I— he's, he's one— if, if you ask Graham Hancock to list off the top 10 pieces of shit that argue with him, that guy's name's going to come There's no known physical evidence, no cave complex matching the description, excavated material, field notes, photographs, maps, accession records, or peer-reviewed archaeological report.

The alleged Smithsonian personnel and expedition do not correspond to a documented Smithsonian project in the way the article claimed. But is there a documented Smithsonian project in the Grand Canyon?

Well, to me, to me, this is like really simple. This is the same as— it's simple to figure out whether or not these skulls have more like capacity or not. Just fucking let somebody go there. If it's too dangerous, or if it's a native— get a Native American archaeology team, get some drones, fucking investigate and close the door on it.

But— Let me ask you this. If they really did find an immense cavern that could have 50,000 people living in it, and they found Egyptian hieroglyphs and mummies and sarcophagus or whatever they have, whatever they found. Do you think they would hide that?

I— that's a tough one. Honestly, something that—

Don't you think that the people that discovered that would become famous?

Oh yeah.

And it would be a huge thing, and archaeologists would want to get credit for it?

Yes and no. So, like, let's put it this way. Say, for instance, you found something that proved those tridactyl mummies were real.

Okay.

You know you're going to get pushback.

Right.

Now, say, for instance, you're a mainstream archaeologist. Your whole job is reliant on going through the proper channels. Now, I've seen what Flint did to me when I called him out as a liar. Do you know how many people call me— they put me in the same fucking camp as Madame now. I'm dead serious. They'll call me total pseudoscientist. They say that I believe in all kinds of crazy shit.

Who's that person you just said?

Madame Blavatsky.

Who's that?

She's one of the old, like the turn of the century, during the, like 100 years ago when everybody was the— what do they call it? During the mesmerism era and stuff when all the people were séances and she was one of those bullshit artists. And so she— they put me in the same category. Right? Like the guy that I talked to about the metallurgy in the Ice Age is an ice core specialist. Flint crawled up his ass and got this dude to retract what he said and stuff. If you're a mainstream archaeologist and you fly afoul of these other guys, you're liable to lose your job. Yeah, like I was saying earlier, it says it right in the Wikipedia thing. If you posited an earlier dating of the peopling of the Americas than this, these guys were going to destroy your career.

I understand that, but to get the military involved? And to block off the Grand Canyon because there's an area that's too dangerous, or it's an area that's sacred to Native Americans, to me is a bit of a reach. That you get the Pentagon involved and they, they send fucking Black Hawk helicopters to circle the area and make sure that hikers aren't climbing up there.

Yeah, something's up there. Something's up there. I mean, it might be nothing more than they got a military base sitting in there. I mean, dude, in Sedona, holy shit, I'd never seen a UFO And I went— when I was in Sedona, they— there's what they call Secret Mountain, and they handed me— these dudes handed me these night vision goggles, and it was like you're seeing all these little things in the air. And then it was like 5 lights come out from this cloud, they move in unison, and they all disappeared together. And I was like, all this happens over Secret Mountain all the time? I'm like, yeah.

Sedona is a weird place, man.

Sedona's fucking weird.

And the people there are weird as fuck.

I have never seen so many hustlers that weren't hooked on meth in my fucking life. Everybody there's got out there, everybody there's got a way to make $20 here, $20 there. But that's because it's more expensive to buy a— to rent a home in Sedona than it is to rent property, to rent business property on the main drag. They can't get minimum wage people to work there. They— it's 20 miles to the nearest town, 15 miles to the nearest town. So like, they have a real hard time. Sedona is just kind of collapsing under its own weight.

Hmm.

Well, it's all new agey people, right?

All new agey people, and they're all trying to make a buck any way they can.

So why are the new agey people attracted to Sedona?

Because of the love, because of the, uh, what do you call it, the, um, yeah, the, the reputation of, uh, you know, it's funny, the, the guy, uh, my, my buddy Robert, he's organizing this whole thing that's going to be at the ACL. He, uh, he's lived in Sedona for years and he tells me like a lot of these vortices, like there was like 3 of them that were energy vortexes that were known about, and then this woman comes through in the '80s or the And he said she found a whole bunch more. And he says, it's really funny, she's grossly overweight, and that's why every one of the vortices she found is about 5 feet from the highway. The 3 real ones, they're out in the sticks, man, or in the desert. But Madame Blavatsky, she says it's right there.

How convenient.

Right next to my bag of juju beans.

That's funny. Has anybody tried Have you ever tried to find— I know there's this one guy who went to the Grand Canyon, he got chased out, but he found something really weird there.

Yeah, I'm thinking there's a— I just found a comment on a video that said this guy was actually hit by a drunk driver, and he has some of the best videos.

Oh, hit by a drunk driver and killed? Yes, he's dead now. Yeah, I used to watch this guy a lot.

This video has 4 million views in 2 years.

So a lot of people will use Google Earth and be like, hey, check this out, but motherfucker used Google Earth and then he'd go And what did he find that's so baffling?

I don't know. I have to watch the video.

You imagine if they whacked this guy because he found something?

Nah.

That's happened before. What did he find?

That's why I'd almost—

so is he in the area where you're not supposed to be?

I don't know. I said I'm trying to stumble. I'm going through all sorts of places real quick. I also would go if it wouldn't be 2 years later that we just found this amazing discovery. People would have shared this every day on Twitter, you know.

Yeah, right.

But what is it? What's the amazing discovery? I don't know.

It could be nothing. I don't— it could be, you know—

What is this?

I don't know. I don't know where he's at.

He found this?

That's a cliff dwelling, obviously, but that's in the Grand Canyon.

Yeah, I've seen this in other pictures though, so it's not a, you know, discovery.

Right. So, we know there were dwellings in the Grand Canyon. The real question is that grand claim of something that has 50,000 people.

Grand Canyon hidden cave.

1,000 hidden caves, although around 335 are officially recorded, and most are strictly off-limits to the public.

See, that's—

that's why are those off-limits to the public, but other cliff dwelling places allow people to— what's that?

All sorts of reasons. Where they are, like you said, it could be in a part of it's on native lands, right? It's probably very dangerous to get to.

Grand Canyon, come save Yeah, but it does get kind of weird when you look at like—

So some of them are legal. It says legal visits. Grand Canyon Caverns, located off Route 66 near Peach Springs, Arizona. The biggest, largest dry caverns in the US and offer public tours. Click on that.

Yeah, I'll say just because it's not open to the public doesn't mean you can't go there. You just have to ask for permission probably in some cases and just get a tour guide or something.

Yeah, but I think the area we're talking about is closed.

That's why I don't—

I haven't seen the— I'm looking for a list of the— At the mouth of the Colorado or something. It's at the mouth of the Colorado River is where Kincaid supposedly found his thing. So like right at the mouth of the Colorado River is where the Grand Canyon is, like, supposed— from what I understand is where you just can't go, like on the side of the hill there, on the side of the cliff. But I haven't tried going. I'm waiting again. I'm waiting for the next time till there's a national disaster and everybody runs back east. Because, man, I, you know, I living on the West Coast, I don't live far from Hanford. I live a little ways, but it's real clear. Like, when World War II happened, they're like, oh, we're gonna build this fucking crazy bomb that might blow the world up. Let's put it all the way on the other side of the country from where we live, over where all those cowboys and, and hicks live. And if we, you know, if Washington glows in the dark, well then, 50 years later, we got a bunch of blue-haired motherfuckers running out of Seattle.

So you figure that one out as you will. But they definitely, you know, they put all the poison over with us. That's, that's how they plan to do It's the same with the desert, right? They dump all that shit out in the desert. Why do they test all the nukes in the desert instead of over somewhere near the east? Because they don't want that shit blowing in their backyard. All those nice Rhode Island houses you're talking about, they don't need radiated. Radiate Seattle.

Right.

So, yeah. Yeah, Hanford's crazy. If you ever drive through there up in Washington, there's all these nuclear storage facilities.

I wonder if someone has a reason why you can't go to that area that they could tell us about?

That's— unfortunately, from what I've seen, I mean, I might— I'm not as— Jamie's pretty damn quick, so I'll get, you know, he might find something that I haven't seen quickly. But from what I've seen, it's, it's very much like he says, she says. This guy said there was stuff there, they say there's nothing there, they won't let you go there. There was one guy that claims to have tried to go there, and like, he supposedly had a video where like people stopped him before he got there. But I watched it, it looked kind of like maybe, yeah. But they say that about Secret Mountain in Sedona. They say that if you go walking around on Secret Mountain up in Sedona, that eventually a park ranger will come up to you, but he's a lot buffer and better armed than most park rangers you're gonna meet. And like, oh, okay, Joe Rogan security? No.

Do you think there's maybe some sort of an alien base Somewhere in the United States?

If there are aliens and they're actively working with governments at all, then ours, the Russians, and the Chinese would be the only ones they'd give a fuck about. Let's be honest. There's not— the rest of the countries are— the rest of the world all kind of just follows us. The oils, if you're an alien race, the oils are, oh, look at those cute guys and their coal. But beyond that, yeah, I think if— I don't— again, I'm pretty skeptical when it comes to alien stuff, but if aliens are visiting Earth, then yeah, I would assume if they're working with humans at all, then yeah, they're probably working with governments. And when I say skeptical about the alien thing, it's really one of two things. Either we're so far away and technology's so— like, look at where we're at now. We're maybe 100 years from actually some sort of interstellar travel, and we're also maybe 20 years from completely wiping ourselves out. I was thinking a 20-year-old kid with $1 million can buy CRISPR and sit there and make genes in his fucking basement. Fuck, we ain't looking long left on this rock, bro. We got fucking Hey, do you hear what they did with that fruit fly?

They took the fruit fly brain, put it in a computer physics engine, and it's all running around and flying like it's real. They max headroomed this fruit fly. They chopped its brain into little pieces. Well, now they got it playing Beat Saber and fucking Doom and all this other shit. And you ever read the book I Have No Mouth, But I Must Scream?

Mm-hmm.

At the very end, it's like these aliens genetically manipulating people, and at the end there's this person that it's just like a blob Blob, and that's what it says. I have no mouth, but I feel the urge to scream. Imagine being a fruit fly with all my balls itch. I press the balls itch button, it's Beat Saber. It's like, fuck, that fruit fly is gonna suffer more than any other animal in the history of humanity from kids pulling the wings off a fly. I'll just set that brain to, uh, experience 10,000 years of me ripping its wings off. And here we are, we're, we're doing it right now. We're doing that shit right now that they're ripping the wings, but Beat Saber and shit, that thing suffered. So anyway, my point is, as a species, as we look at going out into the stars, we're also guttural as fuck. So a species has to get through a lot of— has a lot of hurdles to jump.

Right.

But if they jump those hurdles, there ain't no way we're not gonna be impressive. We're not gonna be attractive because the universe is dead, man. So it's dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, life. Dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, life. They're gonna look at us. So I have basically 2 sides of the coin on that. On the one, I'm pretty skeptical of them getting it going, but if they did get it going, well, yeah, they'd come around. Yeah.

I don't know that they would be like us. Like, our idea is like that we're so violent and we develop these weapons, we do that, we're so close to destroying ourselves. What if that's a factor of accelerated evolution? What if that's a factor of you take intellect and this lust for technology and to transform its environment, and you implant that in a territorial primate.

Yeah, that— I mean, yeah.

Like, you're dealing with like a weird hybrid of an evolved species, like an evolved species that still maintains this tribal primitive behavior but also has this incredible lust for innovation.

Mm-hmm.

No, I could see So we're like too complicated because we're not good at—

Yeah, we did—

We're shit designed.

Yeah, we grew out of our— too big one direction I follow. And yeah, that's a good possibility. I mean, ultimately, my brain on these things ends up thinking about the probability of all these different things happening. It seems to me if we were genetically manipulated by aliens, You know, even not if we weren't genetically manipulated by aliens, you know, one of the things you have to do to get off of the rock is going to have to be a curious species, right? That's something—

Right.

Otherwise, they don't give a fuck. They're going to have to be social, because they're going to have to work together, or they're going to have to be godlike in and of themselves. So there's a few things that we can assume about them. But yeah, we only have one example of intelligence evolving. And if it didn't evolve, if it was created like you're Then we don't really know.

We have multiple examples.

Well, okay.

We have dolphins and orcas.

Yeah, we have a hard time—

And whales.

Well, we have a hard time, like you were saying earlier, we have a hard time understanding them. They might be extremely intelligent in a lot of ways, but there's a lot of things— they might not be the least bit intelligent. A raccoon might be way better, probably is way better at manipulating its environment than a dolphin.

Of course.

So at that point—

Because it's not necessary in their world. They move through 3D space.

Exactly. So their brain might not even have developed certain things that we—

Right.

Yeah. So—

Then the question is, did it develop something else? Like, is their form of communication superior?

That's— see, that's where really like the words like, what's the end goal? Is the end goal to have a good life? life? Or is the end goal to get off the rock? I mean, if the end goal is to have a good life, Ari Mathison's got it nailed when he talks about the people on the Love on the Spectrum. They're way happier than all the rest of us are. Ari Matti, excuse me.

Yeah.

But the Love on the Spectrum, or excuse me, is it about happiness or is it about survival? Is it about getting off the— what's the end goal?

It's Well, is the end goal collective for the human species to evolve and advance and move past the state that we're at now, or is your own individual existence and your happiness currently? Like, what's important? And we don't really move collectively as individuals. We think we do things collectively, but we think about ourselves.

Yeah. Absolutely.

You know, when people are like planning for their retirement, they're not like trying to help out the human race. They're like trying to provide for themselves.

That's correct. But on the other side, like when I'm working on doing research, and you do a lot of research, so you probably understand this yourself, or when GSP invents the Superman Punch, it's like when you bring something new to the world, you kind of feel cool. You know, you kind of feel like I've just contributed to the grand total of human thinking, and I didn't just add like a dot or something. I actually— I contributed.

Mm-hmm.

So you could see where almost like a subconscious desire to do that. So yeah, it is weird. It's like, you know, we do— you watch birds fly together and fish move in a school, and then you watch mobs. It's like, dude, there is some sort of uni-mind that's tying us together. And I'm not trying to get all metaphysical. It might be nothing more than pheromones and chemicals, but something's got us where people act— you can feel it at times. You can walk into a room and feel the fucking energy and just know, Oh, I shouldn't be in this room. These people don't like me. This guy— it's not— and it's not necessarily like a metaphysical thing, although that's the branch, the stamp that everybody puts on it. It's one of the unfortunate things is that if something becomes like water dowsing, if something starts as a metaphysical thing, science is going to knee-jerk to the end of time to resist it.

Right.

But ask anybody who drills wells about dowsing. If they drill wells for a fucking living, they dowse, period. Just like a cop knows that full moon fever is a thing. Well, the scientists— well, full moon fever, statistically— the cop's like, yeah.

What do you think is going on with dowsing?

Honestly, I think it's— remember when we used to have tube TVs everywhere and you'd walk down the street and you'd know your friend was watching TV because you could feel the fucking hair on the back of your neck stand up or whatever?

No.

You don't remember? You never felt the electromagnetic feeling of a tube TV?

No, I didn't walk by my friend's house and know he was watching TV.

No. Did You ever— you ever been able to walk into a room and know that that tube TV was on? You don't remember, like, the—

God, I don't. I don't remember that.

Well, I know that a lot of the viewers remember. It's a thing. I'm sure if Jamie looks it up, you could feel the energy. You can feel that the old tube TVs, you could feel them. And they don't have an exact reason, but, you know, it's electromagnetics, and maybe there's iron in your blood.

And so this dowsing, it's like with rods, those Those twisty rods and they move together when you're getting close to—

Walking over a water source. Yeah, they just do this thing.

Do you think it really works?

According to the guys that make money off of it, it does. And I wouldn't— I mean—

Has anybody tried to do a study on why that would work?

That's where the only things I've seen were pretty skeptical and pretty kind of just like, it doesn't work. But again, that's kind of where the rubber meets the road. It's like—

Seems like that would be easy to prove.

You'd think so.

Like, you get a dowser.

Yeah. Well, that's the thing is that they— science wants everybody to be able to do it. You know what I mean? They want to be able to— we're gonna get 50 people together and have them all go out in the field and dowse.

You would take someone who's good at it. So CRT sets used a high-voltage flyback transformer and magnetic deflection system to sweep an electron beam across the screen. Those parts commonly vibrated around the horizontal scan frequency Roughly 15 to 16 kilohertz in many TV standards, creating a very high, thin tone. Children and young adults tend to hear high frequencies better, so they were especially likely to walk into a house or pass a closed door and immediately know the TV was running.

Oh, okay. Static charge underneath that as well.

That's interesting that children and younger adults can pick it up. Like, they also, like, see ghosts.

Yeah, this might be what the difference is. You're just a few years older than me, and so you might not remember it as well.

Maybe. Maybe people just get duller over time, and they can't feel it anymore.

Yeah, well, these don't use those transformers and all that.

Right, of course these don't.

Yeah, these are a joke by comparison. But my point is, there's things like this that we can pick up on. There's things that we pick up on that we can be tested in, and honestly, I love psychology, although psychology, just like archaeology, is not a science. I don't care when— anything that's self-reported is not a fucking science. You think Epstein told his shrink what he was up to?

Fuck no.

No. Okay, there you go. So, but psychology does have some scientific bits. And one of the things though is ultimately it's the lens that all of it comes through. Everything that we do comes down through that psychological lens. Like me talking earlier about it taking 100 years for them to reconcile gradualism and catastrophism. It's all through here, and it's all through the zeitgeist of the time. Like right now, racism's the big thing, and all these social programs, and so that becomes part of science for whatever fucking reason. I mean, I'll still never forget the time I saw the article about feminist math, and I just wanted to fucking—

What was it?

Feminist math. You know, it's that—

What's that?

I don't know, maybe 6 oppresses 7. I don't fucking know. I don't really know. I guess 7's more pointy and 6 has the whole side. Probably the other way. At any rate, I just laughed. We don't have room for that shit in science. The whole point of science, I say this a bunch, the whole point of science is to like— the whole point of the scientific method is to strip individual biases away.

Right.

This is why replicability is so fucking important, because if I do it and you do it and you don't get the same result as me, there's a problem. problem.

It's weird when it gets into racial differences and they just ignore it completely, and they call the data racist.

Oh yeah, that's exactly what— and then the guys that are openly racist, they love that data.

Well, the weird thing about the data being racist is it's not white supremacists at all because Asians are doing way better.

Yeah, exactly, but you don't want to talk about that. Right.

The problem is the people that aren't doing as well.

The problem is the That they're, in my opinion, is they're trying to take Marxism and turn it into anything besides a monetary bullshit idea. You try to do it at a social level, social Marxism? Oh, come on, dude. This is how you get the oppression Olympics. You know, I've got it worse than—

Yeah.

You know how much money I had to spend to get custody of my kid? And I had no social programs for me? Oh, woe is me. And you go on to that shit forever. It's so stupid. But 95% of the people that are shot in this country by the cops are men. Do we need a Men's Lives Matter movement or is that a little fucked up? Okay, but that's—

Well, it's also men are the ones who create most of the violence. They're the ones that need to get shot.

Well, how about— my thinking is like this. When a cop shoots a person, shoots a guy, he feels more threatened than he does by a woman and when he shoots a black guy, he feels more threatened than he does by a white guy. racism, or personal experience, or town-by-town difference, whatever. At the end of the day, just saying this is pure racism is like, okay, well then this is pure sexism, right? Oh no, it's not pure sexism when they're shooting guys, but it's when they're black. I mean, in all honesty, Donald Trump has a higher chance of being shot by the cops wrongly than Kamala Harris. That's statistically like way more likely, like 20 times more likely.

In terms of men getting shot more than women, period.

White guys are 20 times more likely to get shot by the cops wrongly than a black woman.

Right, and this is not— that's not denying racism or denying sexism.

Fuck no.

It's just you're dealing with statistics.

What I'm trying to do is take the— I only bring these up because so many people bring up these statistics to say this is a problem and this is a problem and this is a problem, and that's why when you bring up this one, it's just overwhelmingly— it's like all of a sudden we look at things differently now.

It's the social Marxism thing. It's like— and it's also there's like a currency in being oppressed. There's a currency in recognizing oppression. There's a currency in signaling virtue that you recognize oppression that other people don't. Admitting your whatever biases.

Your grovel on the floor.

Whatever privilege you may have. Land acknowledgments, all that crazy stuff. It's like, you know, We're trying to be good people, but we're doing it in a way that points at everybody else like they're bad.

Exactly.

And that's where it gets real squirrely because people are using the premise of being a good person to be really shitty to people that don't deserve it.

Oh, yeah. And they don't do anything on their own. They're going to tell me that I should be doing X, Y, or Z, but Kansas University recently put out this big thing about how they feel so bad for living on indigenous And, you know, all these— They're gonna give it back. Thank you. Fuck no, they ain't giving it back!

You know what?

They ain't even repatriated all of the bones that they've got that they're supposed to have repatriated in 1990.

I've only been to one place where I saw an actual land disclosure, and it was at the South by Southwest premiere of The Age of Disclosure. And I thought this was so hilarious. There is a documentary about us being invaded by aliens, and before they play the documentary, they have to acknowledge that someone invaded this land and took it from the natives. And this is the ancestral tribal land of the Tongva, whatever tribes they said. We must acknowledge this first. Like, wouldn't you play the movie? This isn't a history lesson. This isn't a struggle session. Play the fucking movie. It's literally about us getting invaded by aliens.

Yeah, and this is supposed to make it like—

Better?

Better.

You're a good person because you acknowledge this. All right, I gotta wrap this up. Um, your thing, uh, is give out the dates, tell everybody.

It's October 16th through 18th at the Quest for Ancient Civilizations conference at the ACL Live. It's right here in Austin.

It should be a banger of a time.

It's gonna be amazing.

I'm sure it's gonna be awesome. All those people there— Randall Carlson.

Yep.

Billy Carson.

Who else? Yeah, a whole bunch. Kurt Metzger.

Kurt Metzger and Duncan Trussell together. That's Duncan Trussell on tap. and doing deadlifts for 10 years. David Childress, great, great cast of people.

David Childress is a really good dude, man.

What do they do to you, man? They made you look—

Well, you know, it's AI.

You look like Alan Watts.

I look like somebody else entirely. I almost Amish.

You look very odd either way.

Thanks. You sound just like the chicks at the bar last night.

It's a problem with the fucking AI. You don't have to do that, or do it, do it and do it right.

I, my, I say it to everybody. I, I actually had a production team, or I wanted to like get me to sign up to do, you know, for them to help produce for me and stuff. And when I told 'em that I was not gonna have any AI videos, no AI clipping, no AI thumbnails, and certainly no AI communicating with my followers, they're like, we'll have to get back to you on the price. I'm like, yeah, I just took your tool belt, didn't I?

They wanted it to be easy.

Yeah, I could buy AI too. Anyway, thank you, Joe, so much.

Always good to see you, brother.

You too, man. Thanks, Jamie.

Bye, everybody.