Transcript of #2561 - LL Cool J

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Yeah.

We're up. I got sneaker recommendations from LL Cool J. I'll, I'll, I'll take that. I was wearing these Pumas. I'm gonna throw them— well, you said I'm gonna incinerate them.

You, you'll throw them in the incinerator.

Okay, I don't know if that's true, but I like to think so.

You have no reason to believe me yet. I'll give you that. You have no reason to believe me. But when you try them, you're gonna say, yo, your man was telling the truth.

Okay.

You'll see. You're gonna come back on and say that.

All right.

I promise you.

I believe you. I'll give it a shot. I'll give it a shot. Um, well, anyway, very nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you too.

I met you a long fucking time ago. Very briefly, yeah. We were at this stupid NBC thing. It was very funny because you were making fun of it. It was some sick— you know, they do those things where they have all the new shows and everybody has to show up. Oh yeah, upfront. It's like everyone sits down. I was at a table with you.

Okay.

And I was a nobody. This was like 1994. I was like, oh shit, that's LL Cool J. I was just getting— it was just still weird for me to be around famous people. And I remember you were like, pfft, what the fuck is this?

Like, you're under your breath, you're making fun of the whole thing.

And I was like, God, I wish I could do that. Like, this guy's making fun of this shit. Like, you didn't give a fuck about it all. It was really funny.

I mean, you could never take it too serious.

No.

You can, you know what I mean? Like, we're not, you know, we're not gonna take it too serious. You know, life is good.

Especially those kind of things where they sit down, they announce all the shows, and you have to clap. You know, they have all these—

Well, you know, you know, I mean, I'm gonna be, you know, I'm gonna have manners, but at the same time, I'm not gonna take it too seriously.

No, but you were making fun of it and I was enjoying it. I was enjoying it.

It's funny. It's funny.

So this is like crazy. This is the '90s. This is a long, long time ago.

Hell yeah.

You've had a fucking insane career, man. I mean, when did you get signed? Weren't you like 17 or some shit? Like, how old were you when you first got your first contract?

So, um, 16.

16?

16. We started Def Jam.

Wow.

Rick Rubin and Russell Simmons started— well, Rick started Def Jam, right, as a production company. Rick and Russell together formed Def Jam the label, and I was the first act. The first song on Def Jam Productions was It's Yours by Tila Rock. And then from there, the label was formed, 'cause that was Streetwise Party Time. And then from there, the label was formed, and, you know, The rest is history.

That's incredible.

Ad-Rock from the Beastie Boys actually programmed the beat. Rick Rubin produced it, and, uh, I did the mic, and here we are.

Most people who get that successful at 16 have a very difficult time keeping their shit together, but you just managed to keep smiling and floating through this thing.

Yeah, you know what? You know what? Yo, man, you get enough bites at the apple. Yep. You know what I mean?

16.

Yeah, yeah, that was probably about 17, 18 right there.

Wow.

I always could tell by my jewelry. You know what I'm saying? You know?

Wow. That's back in the boombox days.

Yeah, it was the boombox, man. That was everything. That meant everything to me.

Oh, everybody had those back then.

Absolutely.

People would carry them around walking down the street with their own music.

Absolutely.

We're in a different world now. People don't understand what it was like back then.

Yeah, because actually, uh, in a weird way, even though the world is more public, music has become more private. Right, right, right, right. The world was private, but music was public back then, right?

Right, right.

Yeah. It's like an inverted, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Well, you— I mean, it's no exaggeration to say you're a pioneer because hip-hop was so new back then.

Yeah, yeah.

It was so new. You had like Sugarhill, which was in like—

Sugarhill, Rapper's Delight was '79, but I got into hip-hop before that. Because I was listening to like Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Four before they were the Five and the Treacherous Three and Moe and the Cold Crush and—

What year was that?

That's '75, '76, '77.

Wow.

You know, around that time, you know what I mean? And I was hearing the tapes because they were circulating because I was in Queens, you know what I mean? So the tapes were coming out of the Bronx. And when I was in Long Island— see, I was raised— I was born in Long Island, I was raised in Queens, but I also lived in North Babylon. And when I was in North Babylon, next door, there was a lot of foster kids who were from uptown, who were from the Bronx and from Brooklyn. Well, Bronx and Harlem and Brooklyn. So I would hear all the tapes when hip-hop was emerging. So I was like, you know, 8 years old and I was getting exposed to like all of the, you know, the newest of the new at a really young age. So I got like indoctrinated. and dipped in the— baptized in the fire of hip-hop early. You know what I mean?

What a fortuitous time to be a kid too. Like, it's the perfect time because it's all emerging around you.

Yeah, it's like when Gladwell talks about, you know, that moment, the tipping point. Well, people being born in certain places. You know, when he talks about being in Seattle when computers were— when software exploded. So I was in New York at that same time. It's very much in that same Yeah, that same thing, you know, you get sprinkled with a little dust, you know, the man upstairs, you know, get a little sprinkle, be in the right place, got the capability.

Yeah, you know, and the drive and the discipline. Yeah, stick to it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, obviously you have that. You're still in great shape.

You gotta be, you know.

Yeah, you still keep it together.

I do, I do. I've been, um, you know, I recently, uh, started, uh, doing jiu-jitsu, which has been really— yeah.

Yes. Where are you training?

Uh, Brian Glick.

Where's he at?

He's in Brooklyn.

He's in Brooklyn.

Oh, okay.

And, um, he trained under Donahue. Oh, great. Oh, phenomenal.

And, uh, so that's a great lineage. Yeah, Renzo Gracie, Donahue.

Yeah, yeah. So he's, uh, he's a lot of fun. He actually— my man Scott, Scott Khan, you know, put me on to him.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, we've been working. So it's, uh, it's very humbling, you know. You, you think you're— yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. That's Glick. That's Glick. That's my teacher. And, uh, and so that's a lot of fun. That's, uh—

How long you been doing that now?

Not long at all. And you find out that, uh, you think you're a tough guy, but you're really a little old lady. You find out really quickly.

It's so humbling.

Yeah. Oh, oh, oh, oh, you're tough.

Oh, you're tough.

Exactly. You find out real quick. So I've, uh, you know, because, you know, when I was young, I did— I enjoyed martial arts, like a little Sado. karate, a little Wing Chun, a little I Chuan. Like, I, I like the martial arts. So, but this one, this is, uh, a completely different thing because, you know.

Yeah.

You know, it's just, you know.

You feel helpless.

There's no question about it. You are helpless.

Yeah, you're helpless. And you don't think you are until you do it, and then your whole world shatters. You're like, oh no.

Yeah, a guy put you in a closed guard and say, get out, come on, get out. You're good. And you, you, you do everything but stand-up, you know, when you first start. It's crazy. Yeah, so it was fun.

It's, it's a deep pool too. There's a lot to learn. It keeps going forever and ever and ever.

Yeah, yeah, but that's life. Yeah, that's what I like about life. Yeah, you know, because, uh, you know, we want to maximize our potential, right?

Well, I think it's really good for famous people to do something that doesn't depend at all on your personality or your status or your stature. I think it's good for your head. Because it's an undeniable thing. Like, you are either good at this or you are not good at this. There's no charm, there's no charisma. You know what I'm saying?

I'm really charismatic, let me go.

Nobody shows up, they love you the moment they see you. There's none of that.

You can't charisma your way out of an Americana or a Kimura.

Because that's the opiate for celebrities. Like, this thing where everybody loves you and needing that.

Well, see, here's the thing. Here's the thing. I'm a celebrity by consequence. Like, as a result of what I did. I'm not a guy who's celebrity. I'm not celebrity-minded. I'm an artist, Joe. You know what I'm saying? I, you know, I'm famous by default because of the things that I do have made me known. But I don't walk in rooms feeling famous. Like, I'm an artist.

That's a great perspective.

I'm not in it for, like, the fame thing. I'm like, I'm way more blue-collar. I'm not, like, remotely interested in hitting you with the famous— with the long cigarette holder and the ascot and shit. Like, I'm, like, so not into that. Like, I'm, like, way different.

Like, I'm not even remotely This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right, jorogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website, like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to squarespace.com/jorogan. for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGAN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Imagine rocking a cigarette holder.

Can you imagine?

I can see Katt Williams doing it. I can see Katt Williams with a cigarette holder.

Well, it would work for Katt.

He could pull it off.

He can pull anything off. And he's gonna say some genius shit about it on top of that. So yeah, he could pull it off.

Yeah, with some bars.

But me walking in with the cigarette holder. What if you walked in here today and I had a cigarette holder? And when you, and when you said, hey, hey, L.A. I went like this, you know, I just hit you with the—

What is the purpose of the cigarette holder other than keeping the cigarette further from your face?

I don't want my hands dirty. I don't want my hands to smell like cigarettes.

The cigarette smell on the fingers.

It's just all wrong. I don't know what the purpose is. It's just all wrong.

The only person who pulled it off was Hunter S. Thompson. He had it and just somehow or another seemed ridiculous.

Can we put a picture up of him? 'Cause I'm not familiar.

Hunter S. Thompson, the writer. He's the one that they did that Johnny Depp movie Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

Okay, okay.

It's based on one of his books.

Okay.

That's Hunter Thompson. Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he used to have a cigarette holder.

Yeah, yeah, but he's doing it a little bit more aggressively. I'm talking about that other one.

Yeah.

I'm talking about that other kind.

The long one.

The long one, yeah.

The black one with the silver ring.

Yeah, yeah, you know, you know, you know.

Yeah, I think he did it more—

Your man Hunter's cool.

Oh, he was cool as fuck.

Yeah, he's cool.

A complete total maniac.

You know what I mean?

Out of his mind on drugs, but wrote some of the most genius shit.

Ever.

I mean, you know, yeah, make it through, man. If you go through hell, keep going, baby. Yeah, make it through, come out the other side.

Sometimes some people need something to get out of their own head, you know, and that's—

Yeah, it's called humility.

Yeah. Yeah, that helps too. That perspective that you have is a great perspective because like that's the way to get through it. And young people should hear that too, is that like just be an artist and be famous as a consequence of what you've done.

Exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

As opposed to— because if you're arrogant, you can't learn anything. And the most fulfilling thing of this whole thing is learning some stuff. Yeah, like, that's what's fun, right?

Right.

What's not fun is just thinking about yourself all day. That's kind of boring, at least to me.

Well, it's kind of crazy.

It is. It really is.

And the best way to not think about yourself all day is try to learn something difficult.

100%.

100%. Yeah, like when you're doing jiu-jitsu, the last thing you're thinking about is yourself.

You're not thinking about anything. Yeah, you're just surviving. You're just thinking about surviving and hoping that he doesn't give you that— you know what I mean?

That's the worst when they cover your mouth.

You know what I mean?

It's so humiliating.

You know?

Yeah. That's cool that you're doing it though. That's— it's very exciting.

Yeah, it's, um, you know, man, I like that and I like reading. You know, love the books, man.

What kind of shit you read?

Read everything.

Yeah?

Yeah, I read everything from Carl von Clausewitz to—

Who's that?

He's an Austrian, uh, general. Prussian general, actually. Prussian. Prussian general who, um, you know, talked about this concept called friction. And, uh, he has this, uh, Clausewitzian triangle where he talks about, like, you know, you have these 3, these 3 areas that the pendulum swings over, like, uh, Probability and chance, logic and reason, and, uh, luck. You know, it— no, probability and chance, logic and reason, and passion and enmity, hatred. So you can look at society right now and you can take a Clausewitzian trinity and put it over society, and you know that we're operating in a place of emotions and passions.

Yeah.

So logic and reasons wouldn't even make any, you know, wouldn't even mean anything. So it's the trinity. You know, so it really helps you think about life, you know.

Interesting. So the grand strategy is at the center of it all. Government, politics, reason, intelligence, the armed forces, calculation, chance, game of chance, odds, values. Fascinating.

Yeah.

How did you get into this guy?

I just read all kinds of stuff. I love literature, love history, love reading things that, um, make me better. You know what I'm saying? And what you find out is the more you read, the less you know. The more you know, the more you find out, the more you realize you don't know shit.

Right.

And because of that, it becomes more exciting. So, and I wanted to navigate entertainment. It's like what you talked about, right? You know, you're 16, 17, 18 years old. Now either you can get high all day, spend all your money and twist yourself out and go on a binge, or you could figure out something else, you know what I'm saying? And so I just—

How did you know that at 16?

My mother. My mother would show me like books of like drug addicts with like sores on their arms and say, hey, Todd, this is, you know, this is what happens when you, you know, get out in that world. If you can ruin your career and ruin your life, this is what happens, you know?

Oh, wow.

And, you know, that combined with her telling me, Todd, you know, Girls don't like dummies, you know what I'm saying? You know what I mean? You know, not like you trying to be like, you know, Mr. Scientist, like some pedantic super nerd. At the same time though, you want to stay inquisitive, stay curious, you know what I mean?

Well, women want a man who can navigate life.

There's no question about that.

Yeah, and intelligence is one of the best ways, one of the best tools to navigate life.

Intelligence, health, and, uh, that inner emotional strength. You need intestinal fortitude to go with the intelligence, right? Because if you have intelligence but no willpower, you still get banged out, right? You just be a smart punk.

You know what I mean?

That gives up. You know what I mean? That gives up early, but you're smart. Yeah, I know why I'm giving up, you know, that kind of—

Yeah, I know why I'm giving up, but I'm gonna go to therapy and never get better.

Yeah, I don't—

yeah, yeah. I mean, that's the— that's one of the key elements of society today that's not embraced. is like discipline and drive and understanding that you have to have the ability to persevere through difficult times and that giving up— there's no virtue in being emotional and giving up. That's the opposite. It's bad for you. Everybody feels bad sometimes in your life, but giving up like that and celebrating that and embracing it, you know, like, oh, he's in touch with his emotions. Is that what that is?

No, he's in touch with some shit that's gonna get him ran over. He's a little bitch. No, you got it. I mean, like, yo, yo, you gotta see, there's— empathy is not the same as what you're just— right? Because empathy, we need empathy.

Yes.

But empathy is not the same as weakness. Exactly.

Yeah.

And you know, one spark can set a prairie on fire. So we gotta be, you know, we gotta manage our moods and we gotta be able to do what we need to do even when we don't feel like doing it.

Right.

Because that's the language of success.

Yeah.

Right.

That's a really important quote. One spark can set a prairie on fire. Because how many people, they spiral out from one bad thought they start pursuing.

There you go. Yeah, you got to get out of your own way. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, like that's, that's super important, man.

Mm-hmm.

That's super important. You know what I mean? Like, it is, you know?

Yeah. Yeah, I know. No one teaches you that shit in school. Like, you have to have wise people around you to show you that way, or you have to slowly figure it out on your own.

Yeah, you gotta, you gotta, um, you gotta go through some drama and you gotta be able to see the silver lining and you gotta have, you gotta be able to finish the marathon. And that requires your ability to, you know, get comfortable being uncomfortable. I know it's kind of a cliché, but it's true. Yeah, it's true. You gotta be comfortable being uncomfortable. Like, you gotta be able to keep going. and understand that there's another side. Like, I heard this guy, I don't know who he was, so I'm not trying to take credit for this, but this guy said, like, if you're on a plane and, you know, one engine's on fire, if you're flying a plane, you keep flying. And he said, or else what are you gonna do? I mean, yeah, you look to land, but you gotta keep going. You don't crash the plane. If 2 engines are on fire, what do you do? You keep flying until you can safely land. So in life, You don't give up just because one of your engines is not acting the way you want it to.

Right.

You have to treat your life like you— you know, attitude determines your altitude, right? So you gotta—

Well, everybody wants to be comfortable. That's the thing. Because we're so often uncomfortable that everyone seeks to be comfortable, and then once they're comfortable, they wanna hold on to it and only be comfortable.

Right, and then they stop making progress.

Exactly.

They stop evolving.

Exactly.

And they become defensive.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? They just curl up and they become a hedgehog. They just go into a ball and don't try to do nothing in life.

They also get very upset at ambitious people.

Well, some can. Some people can. Well, because it's a reminder, right? Like, I can understand how painful it might be for somebody who is afraid to go for that next level, afraid to do that next thing, to see somebody else wholeheartedly committing.

Yeah.

But what you have to understand is that, like, you have somebody say to you, I don't want to— I don't want to go back to school. You'd be like, why? I'm saying if they want to do— oh, because it'll take 3 years. Well, 3 years from now is gonna be 3 years from now any goddamn way.

Right.

So just go back to school. So going back to what you were saying, it's like, like the idea of, of making it, you just got to be comfortable with the idea that people are gonna say what they're gonna say anyway. And you need to go after your dreams. Dreams don't have deadlines. That's the headline.

Right.

Dreams don't have deadlines. You just gotta go after it. And you know, you lose the battle, you can still win the war, right? With yourself.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

With yourself.

Yeah.

'Cause we are not looking for perfection. None of us are perfect. We all did some crazy shit. We are all crazy. Everybody's crazy. But at the same time, you could take it to the next level if you keep going.

Yes.

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You know what I mean?

That's great advice. Yeah, it's real. And it's real from someone who's actually done it. You know, that's what's really important. People can hear that all day from a motivational speaker, but then you could say to that motivational speaker, what exactly have you done other than motivate people? A lot of them, the list is very small.

But you know what's interesting about that? I hear people say that, but you know what my thinking is? Like, if a homeless guy tells me don't do push-ups in traffic, I'm gonna listen. You know? I think—

I think—

Oh yeah. advice from people that are great, that are great, and then you get really good advice from idiots. Every now and then a moron will tell you something, you're like, oh shit.

So I'm, I'm less inclined to concern myself with who the messenger is. I know it's relevant, right? But I listen to the message because you have to contextualize the message. Yeah, in your life, right?

That's some Bruce Lee shit. That's like, absorb what is useful. You know what I mean?

The way to intercept the fist. Bruce was the man. Bruce is why I got into acting. Really?

Absolutely.

How'd that happen?

Because, I mean, he was the only dude with a tan that was like doing some cool shit on TV or in the movies. You know, he was a little brownie.

Oh, bro, all my Asian friends were so happy. All my Asian friends were like, finally we have a fucking superhero.

Yo, Bruce was the man.

He was the man, dude. He was the man.

He was the man.

He changed martial arts for the world.

I used to be on Jamaica Avenue with the yellow and black Game of Death suit.

Did you ever?

Wearing the Chinese slippers. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely walking down the Ave with that shit.

Oh, that Game of Death suit was the shit.

Right? That yellow with the black stripes with the joint? That yellow Game of Death suit?

I don't think people understand how revolutionary he was. All martial arts were all— they were all siloed. Like, if you did kung fu and your instructor caught you doing Shotokan somewhere, they'd be upset with you. It was very siloed, and Bruce Lee came along and said, no.

He was the first mixed martial artist.

The first.

You know what I mean?

The first.

I mean, he's doing American boxing, Chinese boxing, kung fu.

Silat.

Yeah, Silat karate. Silat is crazy too.

Yeah.

He did judo.

Judo.

He did everything.

Yeah.

Yeah. And he put it all together, and that was heresy.

Yeah.

Yeah. People wanted to kill him for that.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, that rumor still persists, right?

Yeah, it does. Well, I think that rumor has to do with the Triad, with the Chinese mob, because they were financing his early movies.

The Raymond Chow movies?

He said he was doing?

And then he left. And when he left them, there was a gigantic dispute. So when he went to Hollywood, there was a gigantic dispute. So I think that's what the real conspiracy theories, I don't know if they're true.

You think he probably just had an aneurysm or whatever that was?

It seems like something happened where he had an allergic react— wasn't it an allergic reaction to medication or something like that?

Yeah, 'cause they gave him some pills and he went to sleep. He was at someone's apartment, right?

Well, I think it's also, he probably had some head injuries. You gotta realize, like, he's doing a lot of sparring. He's, you know, they're— he's doing sparring with boxers. He's experimenting with stuff. He's doing crazy scenes in movies. He accidentally gets hit. Who knows if he had a brain injury? Okay, cerebral edema.

Exactly.

Dangerous swelling of the brain attributed by the coroner to a hypersensitivity reaction to ingredients in the prescription painkiller Equagesic.

Equagesic.

Equagesic, which he took for a headache. Complained of a headache, given Equagesic, medication containing aspirin and me— mepromate? Meprobamate? Meprobamate?

What is that again?

Uh, aspirin and— Oh, meprobamate.

Meprobamate. Yeah, meprobamate.

He laid down to rest, became unresponsive, could not be revived after taken to the hospital. Autopsy found severe brain swelling and no external injuries. The brain swelling itself is well established in the historical record. But the precise trigger remains disputed. The official conclusion focused on drug hypersensitivity reaction. Later writers and researchers have proposed other possibilities, including heat-related illness and hypo— well, they're testing us today with the word.

Retrospective hypothesis?

Hyponatremia.

Hyponatremia.

Dangerously low blood sodium associated with excess water intake.

Huh.

All right. Retrospective hypotheses. I'm sorry, it's the plural of hypothesis. Retrospective hypotheses. No replacement for original official ruling. Lee was unbelievable, man.

Well, he was the, the Tao of Jeet Kune Do is the original book of mixed martial arts.

No question.

I love—

I bought that book when it came out.

I got a copy still.

I love that book. It was soft. It was like a soft cover. You remember that?

Yep, soft cover, big thick-ass book.

Yeah, big thick book. Illustrations inside.

Yeah, man. And he took things from everything. He took things from like Western boxing and feinting and jabs, and he got from karate, Japanese style karate.

Ali.

You watched Ali?

Yeah. Oh yeah.

Ali's footwork. He was, you know, he was—

He did some of that in the movies too.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, Bruce was a monster.

But people today, they see that, you know, they see mixed martial arts, you see all these fighters on television, they see movies. It seems normal to them. They don't understand that back then this was unprecedented. No one had ever done that before. Yeah, and to be that skillful and do it so he could move so fast that everybody's like, what the fuck?

Lightning quick.

Yeah.

Lightning quick.

Just changed it for the whole world. Like, karate schools just opened up all over the world.

Crazy. Now, what was crazy at that time, it was blurred, 'cause like people didn't know the difference between karate and kung fu.

Right, didn't know. It was very blurred.

Yeah. It was very blurred.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

You just got lucky wherever school you walked into.

That's right, that's right.

You know, you'd open the Yellow Pages under martial arts.

That's right, I was up at the YMCA, Sato Karate. I'm like, Seido, okay, I'm doing Seido.

Us!

Walking into the dojo, us! You know what I mean?

A lot of those YMCA classes, yeah.

They were good though.

Yeah.

2 knuckles, baby. First 2 knuckles.

Yeah, it's a crazy time 'cause like it just got introduced into the world and it took off. It's— I'm fascinated by things that didn't exist and then all of a sudden burst onto the scene.

Innovation.

Yeah. Well, that's why hip-hop to me is so fascinating, especially early hip-hop, because hip-hop as an art form before the 1980s was nonexistent in pop culture. And then all of a sudden it was the dominant force 5 or 6 years later.

That's right.

Like, people have to understand what it was like. Like, when I was a kid and I was— when I was coming up, the first time I heard Sugarhill Gang was I was in a lunchroom. I was in Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts. And at the time it was a bad neighborhood. Now it's been kind of gentrified. And at the time it was, uh, like there was kids that were 17 years old and they were still in the 8th grade. It was crazy.

That's— yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, there's that. 17 years old in the 8th grade is some nasty work.

Yeah, it was like that. Like, no bullshit. There was kids that should have been graduating from high school and they hadn't even gotten out of middle school yet. It was just a lot of like ne'er-do-wells and people that just came from bad homes and bad neighborhoods. But it was the first time I had ever heard that. I remember thinking, this is like a different kind of music. Like, this is—

Yeah, because, because, you know, you live in a neighborhood and you feel invisible.

Yes.

You know, and, and I think a lot of people can relate to that now. You live in a neighborhood, you feel invisible. Your friends get killed, nobody cares. The news doesn't talk about— you know, they may talk about some major thing, but when your friend down the block gets killed, nobody cares.

Right.

You walk down, you got this diddy bop that you're walking with like this, and people think you're walking to be cool, but you're really walking because you like— it's like being in the jungle and you're like a lion and you're like walking around trying to stay low and you're watching your environment and your back, right? I used to have a thing in high school. You do 1, 2, 3, behind you, 1, 2, 3, behind you, the whole time down the hallway.

Wow.

You know what I mean? So hip-hop was the first time that I heard young kids like me sound empowered. And, you know, instead of, you know, because all you saw at that time on the— if you saw a black kid on the news, all you saw was a guy in handcuffs being put into a police car. That was basically it.

Yeah.

That and Bruce Lee. Yeah. So it was like Like, hip-hop is the first time I heard people sound powerful, sound empowered. You know, it wasn't like the Gray Poupon, fancy, I have a lot of money thing that it is today. When we talked about the money, and we— that was aspirational. That's what we wanted. Like, you're coming from nothing, right? You're coming from the grime and the dirt, and you're like rapping about what it could be. So you are— you're extra macho and you're extra—

Right.

Extra bravado and extra— because You're an underdog, right? You know, it became that to like, you know, now it's like, you know, you're on Mount Olympus spitting on, you know, the peasants. You know what I mean? You know what I'm saying?

But back then— Right, back then it was aspirational.

It was the opposite. It was the opposite.

One of my favorite hip-hop videos of all time is Biggie when he was 17 on the street corner.

Oh, when he was rhyming?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

He's, he's— On the block. A nobody, and he's the shit at the same time.

Yeah.

He's the shit, and everybody around him's going, oh!

Yeah.

He's hitting these lines and his flow was already spectacular.

That's right. Because you're basically— you're saying what every— you're like— it's like a different version of Cyrano. But you're doing it for people. It's not about romance necessarily. It's not for this particular girl. You're doing it— you're speaking. You become a spokesman for the emotions, the angst, the pain, the desires, the wishes of the people that are like you. And I'm not talking about just ethnicity. I'm talking about culturally, people that are like you that come from the energy and the type of places that you come from. So you speak for them. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So when I would walk in, like when I got the big gold chains on, the big gold chains aren't to say the— the big gold chains are to show people I have something at that time. And then, yo, not only do I have something, but I'm tough enough to be able to wear this. See, jewelry back then was a message. You know, anywhere, any neighborhood. It was, I can wear this in this neighborhood.

Right.

That's very different from it becoming like, you know, cigarette holders and I got the jewelry on and it's like a goddamn— like everybody's Liberace. No disrespect. You know what I'm saying? It becomes, you know what I mean? No disrespect. You know what I mean? You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, exactly.

I don't wanna diss my man. Not necessary.

Yeah, no, it's— that's what's interesting is like that's the first music genre where like open displays of wealth became like standard, right?

But here's the thing, here's the thing. Remember, it, it wasn't an open display of wealth because it wasn't at the wealth level. It wasn't— that wasn't even the mindset. It was—

I—

it was— it could be as simple as I have 50 grand in my dresser drawer, I got a gold chain, I got a nice car, and I'm doing better than that, but I couldn't 6 months ago, right? And look what I did. That's very different from, you know, look at my portfolio, right, right, right, and my open ostentatious display of this incredible— you understand what I'm saying? I'mma dock my yacht. Yeah, the mindset is different, right? Yeah, yeah, because remember, we were taking cues from hustlers too. Like, we got to be honest about that. Like, we were looking at the different hustlers. We were looking at the Supreme Team, and we were looking at, you know, AZ and Rich and Alpo, the guys uptown, we were looking at different people and all of that was affecting us too. So it wasn't so much about like, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah to society. It was more like, I did this in spite of.

Right.

Like, you gotta think about it. Like, if you're— it's like Monopoly, right? Like somebody I was talking to the other day, like we play Monopoly and I start off and I got all the paper. and you got hardly nothing, and I get 60%, 70% of the property, and then I say, okay, now let's play. If you can go around that board and come up, you're gonna fucking feel good about yourself. You might throw a chain on or something. You might smile a little bit during that game after a while.

Yes.

And so you gotta think about it from that mindset. Now we've lapped, people have lapped this, you know, the game so many times that it's not perceived the same way.

Right.

But at that time, it wasn't about showing off.

Right.

The car was about, yo, I really did this.

Right.

Like, I got— I have something. Because having something is a major accomplishment.

Yeah.

When you got nothing, I don't care if you in a trailer park, you in the inner city, you in the hood, wherever you at, when you are able to accomplish something, that's a hell of a feeling.

Yes.

Right? That's— and so it wasn't about, like— so the idea of financial fiscal responsibility and wealth, nobody's thinking about that shit. I want a Benz. I want a Benz, bro. I just wanna— I wanna Benz.

Yeah.

I remember sitting with the accountant. I'm like, yo. He's like, yeah, we're gonna do that. I want a Benz. He's like, oh yeah, but we gotta take care of this. I want a Benz.

Uh, you know?

And it's like, so we, you know, like I never lost the— yeah, you do stuff with money and all that, but I never lost the mindset of You know, where you really from. Like, people, yo, it's easy to forget. I mean, look, you're the— you're like one of the most read people I know because I watch, you know, the stuff and everything. You could— it's like you could be in a bubble and forget it. If you didn't get in that gym and you didn't roll around on that mat and you didn't get reminders of humanity, you could forget. In the life, this world that we live in.

Yeah.

It's easy to forget. So I, I kind of You know, I just keep that in mind. You said what?

It's comforting to forget. Yeah, it's easy to fall into a band of yes-men and be insulated, especially in Hollywood.

100%, but then you're not relatable, and then you can't learn, and you can't handle—

Well, you also go crazy. Oh, without a doubt. That's the problem.

It might be Howard Hughes. No disrespect.

No disrespect.

You know what I mean? You'd be in the room till the '70s.

Yeah.

Yeah, with all the paper and tissue around you.

Well, it's kind of Howard Stern now. He hides in the Hamptons now.

That's rough.

He didn't do his podcast— his radio show, rather— from his studio for a long time. He did it all remotely.

Yeah, you know—

People start getting weird with germs. They start worrying about getting sick.

Yeah, that's— It gets very strange.

Start washing their hands all day long.

Well, I mean, that's okay. I get a little hippie cleanse and wash my hands all day.

I wash my hands.

But all night long, you know, I wash my hands.

But I think, with no disrespect to Howard, because I'm a giant fan of his, and I think he's the pioneer of all this stuff, but I think you can—

Well, I mean, he's named after an African-American university, so that's the cool— nah, I'm kidding. Go ahead, Joe.

That's part of his lore, is he grew up in an all-black neighborhood. It really is. But he got so famous. He got so famous and so big and so huge and so much money, and I think there's a real potential to be isolated when that happens.

Well, I like how—

And people get mad at you. I do too.

Yeah, I like how— I did his show quite a few times. You know, he was always cool to me. He really was. And he gave me love, like, in the early years when I first started. I gotta be honest. He embraced me. He gave me, you know, he kind of like let me come on the show and let me— you know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

And that to me— you know, I'm not saying that what you're saying is like—

No, listen, I'm not disrespecting him.

No, I don't think you are.

I think he's a legend. And I think if it wasn't for him, then people would block his ass.

But you can become isolated. You can become isolated.

It's— and it's also, it's very hard to even be hanging out with people when you're that famous. It just gets weird for some people unless you force yourself to just do uncomfortable things all the time.

You know what?

And in public.

Well, success— success likes, likes you to be outside, right? It's, it's kind of hard to find success when you're not networking. You could do certain things, but I heard a guy say the other day say, you know, you put a painting on your garage wall, and whether even if the door's open, it's kind of hard to get people excited, you know what I mean? As opposed to putting it in the gallery. So you have to interact. But you know me, like, I'm an introvert even though I do all this stuff.

Are you really?

Yeah, you would think I— but when I go home, I gotta read, I gotta relax, I gotta recharge. Like, I can't, you know what I mean? I can't— I don't like being surrounded by 1,000 people. But I have a different reason for it, because I just learned that it brings problems because you can't manage everybody's behavior.

Right, right.

So, and then when the problem happens, then it's LL.

Right, right. You feel me? One of LL's friends.

Yeah, right.

Part of LL's crew.

You see?

Yeah.

So you gotta— so, so it's kind of like, yeah, today in the news, you know what I'm saying?

You know what I mean? Yeah, especially when you're on a cop show.

Well, you know what, no, that's funny. Yeah, that's really funny.

That's a real funny problem.

You know, I didn't even really think— yo, that's pretty funny, bro. You know, that's pretty funny, bro.

I think about it all the time with, with Ice-T because I was a giant Ice-T fan, still am, but giant Ice-T fan growing up. And he had that song Cop Killer, remember? He had that song with the body count.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But a man that could conquer himself is greater than a man who can conquer a city, right?

So, right, there you go. But it's just funny.

No, it is, it is. But you know what, you know, like Ice says He hustling.

Yeah, of course.

I say always, you know what I mean? Yeah.

I mean, he was in Pimps Up, Hoes Down.

Remember that? Without a doubt.

Get in here.

Without a doubt. Talking about the brick game. Green is for the money, gold is for the honey.

This is crazy. I love it. With Don Magic Juan. Absolutely.

Yes.

Absolutely. Mr. White Folks.

Oh, Mr. White Folks. Bananas. Bananas. Yo, yo.

It was hilarious. Well, yeah, so like, yeah, Ice-T's been hustling since the very beginning. He's another, another pioneer.

Without a doubt.

But what I want people to really understand is kids today, they don't understand because hip-hop is just a part of their life. It's a part of music. It emerged, and it emerged so quickly from— you go from Sugarhill Gang, which was '80— what was it?

That was '79.

'79.

The Rapper's Delight was '79.

And then you got like N.W.A. And it happens very quickly.

100%.

It happens very quick. Public Enemy, it happens very quickly, and all of a sudden you have Fight the Power, and you're like, whoa, what is this?

100%. You know what's funny about Public Enemy? I'll tell you a quick little insight. Their logo is actually my friend E-Love. My— they— Chuck D from Public Enemy took a picture of my man standing next to me on stage and put him in silhouette.

Really?

Yeah. So when you look at the Public Enemy logo, that's actually my man E-Love. E-Love, um, that, that, uh, that created— yeah, that's my man E-Love right there behind that.

Wow.

And you probably, if you actually, you could probably Google E-Love, Public Enemy, LL Cool J, you know, and, and you'll find out that, like, you know, see, see, rest in peace E-Love, aka the Public Enemy logo. And see, that's my man E-Love. See us down there? See, that's us. Yeah, so that's E, but he just had to happen to be standing to see the hat hat. He just happened to be standing in a different pose.

Wow.

But that's what— yeah, he's the logo. May he rest in peace. That was my man.

Wow.

That was my man. He was a good dude. That was my man. He passed away. But he was like, when we did Crush Groove and all that, and we did the first hip-hop— one of the— it was an early hip-hop, wasn't first— one of the early hip-hop movies. He was standing next to me with the box him and my man created, you know what I'm saying? Shout out to my man Phil Pot, Wow.

And then Run-DMC, of course.

Run-DMC, you know, those are my friends, you know what I'm saying? Run-Ando, you know, Jam J, rest in peace. You know, they, uh, they took me on tour, you know, they took me on tour around the world. We went all over the place, you know what I'm saying? It was bananas.

It's just bananas, like, for people to really get it in their mind what a change that was in music. And how this emergent power and style just took over pop culture where kids were dressing like them. Like everybody wanted to be like them.

Yeah.

Look at that Dick Clark.

I did Dick Clark in '85.

Oh shit.

Yeah, I did Dick Clark. Look at Dick. Yeah, look at Dick Clark. It's so funny.

Oh, that's awesome.

That's crazy, right?

That's crazy.

You know what I mean?

That's crazy.

That was, yo, that was like, it was like an unbelievable experience. You know what I'm saying? Like, I would go to London and, you know, you know, be like looking for fast food. Like, yo, just please. Like, I didn't understand Yorkshire pudding. I ain't understand none of that.

How old were you?

When I went to London? Maybe 17.

Wow.

Yeah, we went right away.

Wow.

Right away.

Oh yeah.

Wow. Oh yeah.

What was the reception like over there?

It was incredible. It was incredible at first. Now, at one point, I'll be honest with you, when I put the Love Song out, I got booed. Not booed, but like people were mad. Yeah, because guys were upset that I was willing to be that vulnerable.

Oh no.

But I like them chicks though, baby. I was like, I like them girls. I'm like, yo, I need that. I got to do this, you know what I'm saying? But, um, nah, they gave me a lot of love. You know, we used to tour all over the place.

That's funny that that song—

That song, it was huge, but then there was a little, you know, there was a little corner.

Well, the problem is the other stuff was so hard, right? Your other stuff was so hard.

But that's more real life, isn't it? Right. But isn't that more real?

Well, it's balance.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's balance. There's nothing wrong with having both.

I mean, you know, you go home, you get what you got. I mean, you are— you do got a couple of personalities, don't you? Like, I mean, we all do, right?

You should.

So my art reflected the real. Like, I'm just keeping it 100.

Right, right.

Like, you guys want to keep it 50 and call it 100.

They just didn't want to expose you. that part of themselves.

Meanwhile, they probably like that song when they're alone in their room staring at the wall. No question, no question, no question.

Wow.

So was hip-hop taking off over there as well with like artists? Were new artists emerging in England?

Yes, yes, yes, it was. Uh, well, at that time there wasn't as many, but they got into hip-hop very early. The whole world, like there's a lineage of artists that are pioneers around the world that contributed to hip-hop in their own countries. I can't name them all, but like in France you had MC Solaar, but there was people before him. Like, you know, there's different— my man Spatz in Germany, there was people before him obviously. Uh, I always get the name wrong, but it starts with an N and a number. I just can't remember. Um, but yeah, I mean, hip-hop, like I would go to Japan, you know, and And they be singing the words to the song verbatim and then can't speak English, but they rap the song.

Wow.

Yeah, it's crazy. It's amazing.

That's wild.

But it made me respect cultures all over the world though. It made me— it gave me a different kind of mindset for people around the world, you know what I'm saying? How I view things. Because you can be real myopic. I mean, if when I first started going out of land, it'd be like, yo, take me to the Black neighborhood.

hood.

Let me just see what it looks like. They be like, what do you mean? We're in Japan. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, it's like, so just take me where it's hip-hop-ish. And then you start getting exposed and you see kids that love graffiti and they love the arts and they love hip-hop.

Yeah.

And you come to find a, a newfound respect. Like, I did a, a, a record in Germany with my man and he— it's Spatz. I think I'm saying his name I mean, he's rapping in German, I'm rapping in English. People in America don't know about the song, but it was like a thing I did over there. And you know, you just get into a whole world, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. Well, I love Brazilian hip-hop because I can't speak Portuguese. I just like listening to the sounds, you know?

You know what's funny? I think the best— to me, the language that sounds like most impressive to me, I mean, outside of English, I would say is French.

French.

French sounds incredible.

French hip-hop sounds incredible.

Yo, French hip-hop is dope. French hip-hop is dope.

Yeah, it is.

Yo, French hip-hop is dope, for real. You know what I'm saying? I like, I like Brazilian. I'm Portuguese, you know what I'm saying? But French is a— you know what I mean?

Yeah.

You know, I love the— I love the music of the whole world though, you know what I'm saying? For different reasons, you know what I mean?

France is fascinating to me.

Yeah.

You know, you know, it's a hyper point of mixed martial arts now.

Yeah.

A lot of elite fighters that come out of France, including the heavyweight champion of the world, Ciryl Gane.

He's from France.

Cedric Doumbé is this dude who fights in the PFL, who's like one of the best kickboxers alive. He's fucking people up in MMA now. Yeah.

I know Cyril was— Cyril's a monster.

He's a freak. He, he has changed my thoughts on bases, like for sports entry. Well, he's a Muay Thai fighter, but here's the point, he played basketball.

That's interesting.

This is why I think basketball is a huge factor for big athletes in particular.

If you can play good basketball, at basketball.

The thing about being good at basketball is you have to be able to change direction constantly.

Tennis.

Yes, tennis would be a good one, but it's not constant. It's ba-bump, ba-bump, ba-bump, ba-bump. Basketball, you're constantly engaging. There's a ball and people, and it's all about juking and movement, and it's all about misdirection. That's huge with striking. Yeah, you can get a guy as big as Ciryl Gane, so he's £248 but moves like a cat. Yeah, and I think a big part of that is he spent so much time it's like plyometrics. Like, you're doing constant plyometrics when you're doing basketball, plus hand-eye coordination because you have a ball. Yeah, and you're moving the ball wide back and forth, which is very similar to punching.

Footwork. Yes, footwork is hugely important.

Footwork in conjunction with the movement of your hands and distance management. And he could play, man.

Yeah, and he can do it. I saw that. I saw— yeah, I saw this clip before. Yeah, that boy, and he's really playing.

Yes, like, really good. I think there's something legitimate to that as a base because you're constantly jumping. Like, soccer is another one. Soccer is a tremendous base for MMA because those guys have great cardio and their legs, they can constantly move back and forth and like they don't get tired.

That makes sense.

It's a huge factor.

That makes sense.

If you can get that kind of movement— most people don't have that kind of movement, like an elite basketball player movement— and if you're a guy who's like plotting and like, you know, heavy-footed, and you're like moving forward, and there's a guy that's just like light on his toes, moving around, and you can't hit him. He's nowhere to be found. That's a big factor.

Yeah, I agree. And if you combine that with, you know, mindset, animal mindset and intellect, yeah, now you're really playing at a different level, right? If you can get— you can do one so they do two so you can grab the three, you know what I mean? If you can really, you know, if you're really thinking that way, Now you're at a whole nother level, 'cause that makes the difference too. It's the mindset and the intellect. Like, when you look at Floyd, like, you know—

Yes.

Yo, the intellect, the traps he's setting.

Yes.

You know, the process, the standing in front of you, the giving you something just to take it away and catch you. You know, like those little things, that matters.

And you can't hit him, and he's right in front of you.

That's right.

He's not moving around, and he's not constant with footwork like Ali was in his prime. No, he's right in front of you, shoulder to shoulder.

Yeah, just giving you a little something.

And you can't do shit.

Just giving you— just, just because you're telling on yourself. Yeah. He's looking at your hips, he's looking at your elbow, you know, you're telling on yourself.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Easily the most elusive guy who stood right in front of people.

Him, Sweet Pea.

Sweet Pea. But Sweet Pea would move too.

Yeah.

He would stand right in front of you, but he would also move.

But he would be moving backwards and getting out of there. He was, he was incredible with that. There's also this Italian There's this Italian boxer, you gotta look it up. He's like a, um, I think he's like Floyd before Floyd, even before Floyd's pops. Look for the Ennio, look for, um, like, I— no, no, actually he's Argent— he's Italian, but he was in Argentina, but he's Italian. And he's, uh, um, he's one of the most incredible elusive fighters I've ever seen in my life.

What year was this?

This is— I wanna '40s, '50s, '60s, like, look, Italian. Yeah, you got him. Watch, watch this.

What's his name?

Um, Nicolino.

Yeah, Nicolino.

Watch Nicolino. Watch Nicolino. Watch that. No, this ain't him. That's not him. Yeah, no, you gotta— but yeah, here he is. Yeah, now watch, watch him, watch him, watch him, watch him, watch. Oh, they're comparing, like, get him, find him. Look at it, look at it, look at it, look at this, look at this, look at this.

Oh, I have seen this guy before.

Look at this, look at this, look at this, look at this, look at this, look at this, look at this shit. This is, this is, this, this is crazy. You know, you can't like, like, I mean, he's unbelievable. And this is like a bad fight because I'm looking at his eye and it looked like he didn't, you know. But I mean, when you really watch him, unbelievable. When you get him on the ropes, you find him on the ropes. I mean, this guy is just unbelievable. Nicolino No, Luce, what's his last name?

Loche.

Loche? I'm not sure. Loche. Yo, he is just— I mean, his— like, when you get— like, you can't hit him. Like, that's all Floyd. You see it? You see it, right?

And this is early.

Yo, this is crazy.

It wasn't a lot of guys like this back then.

Look at this. Look at it. Look, watch this. Look at this. Come on, baby.

Have you ever seen Willie Pep? Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely.

Willie Pep's another one. He won an entire round without throwing a punch.

Yeah, he was unbelievable.

Yeah, Willie Pep.

Come on. You know, my, my, um, my uncle was John, um, John Henry Lewis. He was a light heavyweight champion.

Really?

Yeah, yeah.

That was your uncle?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, my granduncle. My, you know, my mother's uncle.

So you've been a boxing fan since you were really young?

Actually, here's the crazy thing. I didn't even know that I had all of these boxers in my family till I did my DNA research with Henry Lewis Gates. on Finding Your Roots, and they did this whole thing and came to find out all of these people in my lineage for real. Like, this is because my mother was adopted. That's why, that's why I didn't know. And then I came to find out, yo, my uncle, all in— like, he's in the Hall of Fame.

Wow.

Yeah, yeah, he, he was, he was good. John Henry Lewis.

Wow.

Pull him up. Pull up John Henry Lewis. It's my— yeah, him. That's my uncle.

Wow.

You know what I'm saying?

You know what I'm saying?

He was unbelievable. It's unbelievable. He was incredible. He was incredible. I mean, you know, he went up to— he was light heavyweight. He went up to heavyweight, got knocked out by Joe Louis really quickly, but he was an unbelievable fighter, you know? He was a— yeah, yeah, he was powerful.

That's awesome.

That's crazy, right?

That's crazy.

So, you know, so the fight game, I love the fight game. I love it, man. Like, I, you know, sometimes I tell them I miss my kid's wedding to see a good boxing match. I'm sorry. I know you're— I'll walk you down the aisle in an hour.

Yeah, well, there's something very definitive about it. It's like everybody understands what's going on. Like, you could— you don't have to be a fan of boxing to understand what boxing's going— what hap— what's happening.

Combat sports in general.

Yeah, you're watching 2 people's souls get exposed.

That's what I was about to say. Yeah, because it's a soul test. Yeah, because when you're in the fire, now it's about your soul. Yeah, right, because you know what you're dealing with. Yeah, you know, because there's a saying, you can look in a man's eyes and tell his rank.

Mm-hmm.

You can see a person's rank in their eyes, you know what I mean? And I'm not talking about the arrogant, I'm my rank. I'm talking about their rank, their skill level. Yeah, who they are, right? Who they are. It might not even be their skill level, but who they are. Because your skill level can fluctuate, it can evolve, it can change, but you know what you're dealing with, right?

Right.

Like if you get a pit bull puppy, or if you get a, you know, you know, a Rhodesian Ridgeback, you know, or Razorback. Is it Razorback or Ridgeback?

Ridgeback.

Yeah, you get one of them, like you can look in a puppy's eyes, you know what you're dealing with. It reminds me of that movie. Remember the samurai movie when he gave him the sword or the ball and he said, pick one?

What movie was that?

It was, um, it was the one where the guy was, he was traveling around and his wife was killed. And then, um, they said, uh, nah, this is real shit. And he said, he put the sword in front of his son and he put a ball in front of his baby. He said, if you pick the ball, Shogun Assassin, that's what it is.

1988.

Yeah, you choose the sword or the ball. If the kid chose the ball, he was gonna kill him.

Let me see that scene.

That's not the actual scene, but it's a great scene. It's a great scene because he found out what was inside of his son.

Right.

You know what I mean?

Wow.

That's heavy.

I love it, man.

Well, that's the thing that trainers have to deal with. There's certain people that as you're training them, you realize that they just don't have it. There's something about them.

They don't—

they don't have— and then there's other people that you start training right away, like, oh, if this guy could figure out how to keep this fire burning, he's got it inside of him.

Because like when you hear people say— and this is like no disrespect, but this is like the thing— when you hear people say, I'm maintaining, or same old shit, I don't really like that. Because you want to thrive, not survive. I actually got that from Glick. That's his quote. but you want to thrive, not survive. So it's just like being on the mat. You want to thrive, right? So some people live their lives defensively. Yeah. And they don't take the opportunity to seize the neck when they can. They're like, yeah, that's the sword or the ball scene. And he basically is telling his kid, yo, you choose this ball, you will join your mother.

Whoa.

His mother's gone, right? You choose the sword—

He's a little baby.

Yeah, exactly.

He's crazy.

Exactly. You choose the sword, and you come with me.

Oh, wow.

And he put the sword down and he put the ball down. And watch this, watch this. Yo, yo, somebody wrote here, Bloody Revenge, pick up a ball and join their mother in death is absolutely insane work. Yo, the quote is hilarious. And then the little boy, he, he's growing, he's going, he's going, and then, yeah, well, and ultimately he picks the sword. Ultimately, he picks the sword. It's crazy.

Yeah.

That's life, though.

That is life.

Right?

But you gotta wonder how much of that is, like, just destiny. How much of that is inside of you? 'Cause certain people just have— they're born different. They're born with a different mindset. They're born with a different personality.

That's true.

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One thing I would say about that though is that that's true, but you also have to have self-awareness. So what does that mean? That means that if I know I have a proclivity or a certain thing that I go, you know, I can make certain things, you know what I mean? Like, I know I'm not hungry in a certain area. You can decide to improve.

Yeah.

Now that doesn't mean it's easy. I didn't say it's easy. And that doesn't mean that I can't relate to people going through stuff, because people go through stuff and that's legit. But you can decide to be better. I didn't say it's easy, but you can decide to be better, right?

Yeah.

It's kind of like the, the pro and the amateur. The amateur says to the pro, I want to be where you are, I want to be at the level you're on. And the pro says, well, you're gonna have to sacrifice, you have to dig deep, you're gonna have to go through some pain, you're gonna go through some trials, it's gonna be tough for you. And the amateur says, that's easy for you to say, you're a pro, right? Yeah, that's because a lot of times people, they suspend success in advance. They say, that's too hard, right? Oh, that's easy for you to— that's easy for you to say means— I interpret that to mean that's too hard for me. Or I think that's too hard for me. No, it's not too hard for you. You just don't want to be uncomfortable.

Yeah.

But that's not easy. And see, that's the part— like, I'll give you an example. Like, and you may have heard this, you'd be on a set somewhere and, yo, how you doing? Living the dream. People say living the dream. Most of the time when they say that, it almost sounds like they're upset but they're trying to keep themselves happy. But what they fail to realize is when you dream of roses, you get thorns. If you and I decide we're gonna go on an adventure and we're gonna climb Mount Everest and we put the work in, that doesn't mean we're not gonna deal with weather, we're not gonna deal with slippery slopes, our legs aren't gonna be burning from climbing. It doesn't mean that. It just— it doesn't mean it's easy. It just means that, you know, it's a challenge that we're going after, but challenges are difficult, so success is difficult. And I think that particular piece right there is what people forget and they miss.

Well, I think young people today also are looking for something to happen quickly.

No question. You know what's crazy? So I got this theory, I got a hypothesis, I got a lot of them, Joe. Okay, I'm out of my mind. So it's like the internet is like a script, right?

Yeah.

But real life is on its feet. You ever been on— you've been on sets, you did shows, you did all kinds. So you know sometimes you can have a script and it doesn't work on its feet. They'll say, oh, this isn't working once you put it on its feet.

Right.

Well, guess what? If you've been living on the internet, you've been dealing with a script the whole time. Then you get in real life and you're awkward, you can't interact with people, et cetera, because what you've learned in this script and what you've studied isn't working on its feet. You following what I'm saying?

100%.

So in other words, like, in other words, what works behind a keyboard, like, you know, when Mike says people got too comfortable with saying stuff and not getting punched in the face for it, what works on a keyboard board doesn't necessarily work when I walk into your studio and me and you are kicking it, right? Right, right. That's what— but I think people— so to go back to what you're saying with kids, a lot of times, not all, because a lot of— there are a lot of animals out there that want it, but a lot of them, they want real life to work like the internet. Instant validation. Everybody loves me. Instant this, instant Yeah. Order the drink, order the stuff, get the thing.

Yeah.

But real life, you gotta really get out there and hunt. You gotta really get out there in the woods, you know? Like, the internet will reward you for chopping down trees in the wrong forest.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

But in real life, you gotta put your ladder against the right wall, right?

That, that is the weird thing about the internet. And then a lot of people are becoming famous just for being people, just streaming.

Yeah.

And so then there's a lot of young kids where they look at that as an avenue for life where you're not creating anything really. You're not becoming better at anything really. There's no art.

And here's the thing about it though. Here's the thing I believe. I think that some streamers really are artists and they really are doing what's in their spirit. spirit. Like when I see a kid like Speed going out and doing his stuff and running around.

Yeah, that's different.

Right, I know.

He's doing things.

But he's doing things, but it feels like to me that it's coming from here.

Yeah.

Right? Some people are just turning a camera on and saying anything for clicks.

Right.

Right? No disrespect to them. But we should name— we should do the title of this, No Disrespect. But, but the reality is that That's not—

you're not really doing anything, and you're gonna get rewarded. You'll make money, you'll buy cars, you'll buy stuff, but you're gonna feel empty.

Your soul won't evolve.

Yeah, you should, you should find something that you could express yourself in, something that's legitimate, something that is uniquely you.

What would you do if you were— if you weren't afraid, right? Yeah, that's always the big question.

Weren't afraid.

If you weren't afraid, what would you do?

I always say if you had a documentary crew filming your life and it was a story about your success, but it all starts now. Live like that. Like, live, live like a documentary crew is following your journey to success. Yeah, do all the things that that person would do. Yeah, decide like, what is it that that kind of person would do? What, what is— what are the steps they would take to succeed?

That's powerful too. That's powerful because it's like, you know, you're channeling something. That's like channeling it, you know. It's, it's kind of— it's not fake it till you make it, but in a way it's embodying what you want to ultimately become. Yeah, right.

Like if you were watching a documentary on a very inspirational person, like, look at this motherfucker, crack of dawn gets in the ice bath, you know, he's out there running on the road, he's getting his work in, he's doing these things. Like, that's what you would— you would say, God, I want to be like that guy. Well, just, just do it.

And then, you know, the thing is, right, you know what, Joe, and this is the language of success we're talking about right You gotta be relentless. That's why I like— shout out to my man Tim Grover. He wrote the book Relentless. He trained Michael Jordan. He trained Kobe.

Mm-hmm.

I work with him sometimes. We— good vibe, good friend of mine. You have to be relentless. The book is great, by the way. People should check it out. But you have to be relentless in life. Like, you have to really, really want it. I didn't say it was easy. Please don't conflate conflate relentless with easy, or relentless with every moment's going to be a bed of roses. That's not what I said. I said you have to be relentless, you know what I'm saying? Like, you have to be hungry. Like, I come here, you have beautiful studio, the stuff— this is a manifestation of somebody putting their energy in and being relentless, right? And you have to be comfortable with who you are and stop trying to be someone else. Oscar Wilde had the best quote. He said, be yourself, everybody else is already taken.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

You feel me?

Oh yeah. I think for a lot of young people, it's a problem that they don't exactly know who they are.

Well, they know what they— a lot of people know what— who they— they know what they But they're scared to deal with it because they feel like that's not something that other people would be into. It goes back to me making a love song in the middle of like hardcore hip-hop, right? Uh-oh, what will other people say?

Was that before or after Mama Said Knock You Out?

That was before. Yeah, that was way before. Yeah.

Okay.

That was many years before.

'Cause that's one of the hardest songs of all time.

That's hard. That's one of the hardest songs of all time. Yeah, Mama Said Knock You Out. Don't call it a comeback, baby.

Oh, come on, man. That's one of the hardest songs of all time. But you also mixed it up with shit like Going back to Cali.

Yeah, Rick Rubin.

Blues.

Yeah, avant-garde blues.

Yeah, her bikini small, heels tall.

She said she likes the ocean. She showed me the beach, gave me a peach. Now my vet is fast. Yeah, yeah, that was fun. That was a lot of fun.

Oh my God, man, you got some classics. You got some real class. Rick Rubin is such a trip. He's one of the most interesting people I've ever met.

Yeah, it's so funny. Like, my first album, Radio, it says reduced by Rick Rubin.

Does it really?

Yes. It's not produced. If you pull up the credits, it says reduced by Rick Rubin.

Wow.

Yeah, because he wanted to strip everything away. It's kind of like in life, right? It's like stripping down. I've come to realize that stripping away tends to be a lot more interesting than piling it on.

Right.

You know what I mean? In a lot of instances. It's about— you need context, but it really works. And he just stripped down, because prior to that, most of the hip-hop that was on record— I'm not talking about the streets, 'cause the tapes were different, but on record, it was a lot of bands.

Mm.

And a lot of, you know, a lot of musicality. Records were like disco records. They were like 10 minutes long, 12 minutes long, 8 minutes, 9 minutes long. He reduced it, stripped it down. So I'm rapping over a simple beat. And I'm just, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

And it just became this thing, you know?

How did you get to know him?

So, so it's so funny. He made a record, he produced a record called It's Yours by T-LaRock, and it was on the Streetwise Partytime label, but it was Def Jam Productions. T-LaRock, It's Yours. I bought that record, loved the record, Had his number. I still remember his number, 212-420-0666.

Someone's gonna get some phone calls.

My bad, no disrespect, no disrespect. And then so, so I did that and, um, I called him every day. I sent a tape in, me and my man. My mother— let me backtrack a little. So I had sent demo tapes to a lot of labels. labels at that time that I thought might be handling rap, one of them being Sugarhill, some others. And they all kind of gave me these standard notes, we can't use your material at this time, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, the standard rejection letter. So my mother found one crumbled up on a shelf. I'm dejected. Now I've been trying for 2 years because I started— became a fan at 8, started writing at 11 or 12. At 14, I started working on demos. And now here I am I'm 16, late 15, early 16, working on this demo. I get this rejection. She gets her tax return, you know, you know, um, shout out to the people who actually get tax returns. Like, that's pretty, you know, you know, that's a whole nother conversation. I don't want to digress. But anyway, my mother got a tax return, you know, and that tells you everything.

She was happy. So that tells you where we were at, right?

She—

I tell her, she sees the letter, she's like, Todd, what's wrong? I'm in there in my room, I'm dejected, I'm depressed. I'm like, oh, you know, I'ma quit. I'm not gonna do it no more. I'ma quit. I'ma give up. She said, no, Todd, you sound as good as some of the guys on— those guys on the radio, the people I hear on your tapes. You sound as good as them. You should keep going. I said, well, I don't have any equipment. I don't have stuff. I can't make a demo. They don't like what I'm doing.

going.

She took her tax return and bought me a Korg drum machine. She bought me that Korg drum machine, and me and my man Frankie— shout out to my man Spin Master Finesse Frankie— we went— Frankie Forbes— we went out, we went to his house. We were so excited, we didn't even— I couldn't even wait to learn how to program it reading the instructions. We did a pause tape. I'm played. I played the beat, he did the scratching. I played the beat, he did the scratching. I did that, I rapped over it afterwards. Sent that to Rick Rubin at his dorm. He had a dorm, 5 University Place. He was in the dorms at NYU.

Wow.

Ad-Rock from the Beastie Boys, Adam Horovitz from the Beastie Boys, heard my demo. He played it for Rick. I was calling Rick every day after I sent it. Like a day or two later, I'm like, you get the tape yet? Nope. Yo, Rick, you get the tape yet? Nope.

I would call him.

I would call there like 2, 3, 4 times every day. Finally, Ad-Rock heard it, played it for Rick. Rick called me up. Well, he called my house. My grandmother picked up, screwed his— fucked his name up crazy, you know, Slick Dick Rubin, Dick Doobin, you know, my grandma. I'm like, oh my God, Rick Rubin? She's like, you know. So I get— I call him. He's like, yeah, come down to the studio. We're gonna go in. Come, come down tomorrow. I go down, I get on the subway. I'm doing handstands on the subway, I'm so damn happy, you know what I'm saying? I'm like on the subway platform doing handstands in New York, you know what I mean? Like literally, like so happy, I'm like turning myself upside down with my legs against the beams, like about to tear this world up. I get on the, um, train, go down to 5 University. Rick comes down. I said— he said, hey, what's up, man? I said, you're Rick? He said, yeah. I said, I thought you was Black. Look at him right there. And that guy, he looks at me, he goes, cool. We go upstairs and I look at the same tattoo.

He's so crazy. We go upstairs, we made a demo called Catch This Break. We made that demo, we went across town right after we made it and saw Russell Simmons. Played it for Russell. Russell's like, same old thing. Sounds like this one, that one, that one. Like, okay. Me and Rick go back in the studio. Ad-Rock programs a beat for Rick. Rick produces everything. He gets Jazzy Jay to do scratching. We do, we do this thing, I Need a Beat. Russell, they like it so good they're gonna start their own label called Def Jam. They're gonna start their own label, not just a production company, but an actual label. And they put that song out, and we ended up going in. It was independent. We did 2 singles. That's me and Ad-Rock. And then we ended up, you know, Def Jam became the thing that people know today.

Wow.

Yeah. But it all started back then.

How did Rubin get involved? Like, it's such a fascinating character. He's such a— like, he sees things.

Well, he's a— see, the key— the thing is having a POV and being a fan. You don't have to be classically trained in something to have a POV and to be a fan and have taste. 'Cause ultimately, whether it's us being here, whether it's us picking a t-shirt, a book, a bike, a workout mat, it's about taste. Taste is something that you can't— that's the great delineating factor between a lot of things, is taste. He has great taste.

Yeah.

Rick can say, that's cool, and it will be, at least to us, right? We can't— I can't say that everything we ever did is cool to everybody. But to us it was cool.

Right.

You know what I mean? So when we do Rock the Bells, it's like, it's cool.

Right.

You know, it's like when we do these songs, I Can't Live Without My Radio, Rock the Bells, all this stuff, it just felt cool. Jack the Ripper, it just felt cool. You know what I'm saying? To us. And that's how it is. And that's, to me, that's the thing that makes Rick so fun to work with. It's because he wasn't afraid to tell you you, yeah, I'm not sure that's it. Like, me and you can't— me and you can't have a real rapport if you can't tell me your charge of t-shirts. I don't know, whatever, you know?

Yeah.

We can't. But he would tell you, you know, like my name. Like, you know, like I had a friend Playboy Mikey D. I had a lot of dudes with like romantic inclined names that had them kind of names on it. So I was Ladies Love Kool James. He's like, yo, that's long for the record, man, you know, for the label. That's a lot.

LL.

Yeah, cool, let's do it. You know what I mean? Yeah, like it's all those little things, you know. And that's the thing about Rick, you know what I'm saying? Taste is a big deal, you know what I mean?

Yeah, and the fact that you respect his taste, like he's intelligent enough for you to like take it into consideration because there's a lot of people that have opinions.

So You know, it's so funny. You're right about that. You know, people always tell you, like, you hear somebody say, you gotta surround yourself with great people. How do you know they're great people? Right.

Well, especially when you're 16.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So you just have to follow your intuition.

Yes.

That's the biggest tool in your toolbox.

Yes.

Your gut is, is gonna be the thing, right? And I always followed that. Like, there was times I would tell Rick, nah, nah, Rick, that ain't And he'd be like, you sure? I'm like, ah. But then other times he'd be like, no, this is it. And I'm like, yeah, you sure? He's like, yeah, you know? And I would listen. Like, Going Back to Cali is a classic example. Initially I said I don't think so because I hated the shit.

Really?

Yeah, I was like, I don't think so. You can keep that.

You didn't like that song?

No, because it sounded different. Like, at first when we were— it was the demo version, and I was I was like, I don't think so. He was like, yo, that sounds crazy. I'm like, yeah. And then I said it. I'm like, oh, that's kind of cool. Like, you know, I don't think so. You know, it became a thing, you know?

Right.

So you have to, you know, it's just like martial arts. It's like anything. Adjustments.

Yes.

Right? Taste adjustments. And doing things that work for you.

Right.

Your mind, your creativity, your voice, your tenor, you know, your—

When you're involved in like the editing process of a song, like when it says reduced by Rick Rubin, Did you and Rick like sit down together and listen to it and try to sort it out? Did you listen to it independently?

So at that time, I was— I would more listen to what he was saying, but I would like hum beats in his ear and then they would program them. I would say, make the beat go like this, Rick, or do this. And then he would like— so we really worked together. But ultimately, at that time, he He would come back to me with ideas, and most of the time I just loved them. I just thought they were great. You know, I'm a little kid, I'm 16, I'm on the bus.

Wow.

I'm going back and forth, I'm getting on the subway, we're making these records, and it just sounded like the coolest stuff in the world. My man E-Love, we're walking down the block, I play Rock the Bells for him, and he's like, Yo, I play it on my Walkman, he listens, he's like, yo, let me hear that again. I'm like, yeah, I'll play it for him. He's like, sha! He used to say, sha! You know? He'd be like, yo, let me hear that again. You know, it was just that kind of a thing, you know? Because I, like, so I always went after feelings with lyrics. Like, I know nowadays, especially in the internet age, people are hyper-focused on lyricism. And they're hyper-focused on complexity of lyrics and couplets and iamb pentameter and, you know, You know, I always— I was more in the James Brown zone of how does it feel? It's kind of like— it would be like you, like, did the joke make you laugh or was it a really smart joke? Like, I didn't really care about it having to be a smart joke. I just wanted them to laugh. I wanted people to feel what I was saying.

I wanted to feel it. So that's why I wrote songs that people can feel. You know, which is very different when you get— when people get over-analytical. That to me, I don't want to listen to an audiobook when I'm listening to an album. I want to feel something.

Right, right.

You feel what I'm saying?

Yes.

But what people like— and so that was kind of my thing. I was never really concerned. Like, it's kind of like, um, like Quincy Jones said something really interesting to me. He was one of my mentors. He said he had to forget 2/3 of what he knew before he could get ahead. hit.

Oh.

You know?

Yeah.

It's like overthinking your bet, your jump shot. It's like overthinking a punch. It's like overthinking a kick. I watched you one time, you was doing some side— you was talking about— you was doing side kicks and back kicks, you know, like roundhouse kicks. And you were talking about how you got to get your hip up in the air. But at a certain point, you forgot it, right? You were no longer conscious of it. You just throw the kick the way you throw the kick. Where when you're writing a song, you can either be one of those people that are overly focused on and I'm raising my hip, and I'm— or you could just write the song and it's a fluid kick that just works.

Right.

Now, just because it's a— when it's a fluid kick that works, if people don't always associate simplicity with genius or hypercreativity, because they underestimate how difficult it is to get Right, right, right, right, right, right. Like, if I, you know, if a guy who, you know, you're very experienced martial artist, a guy comes in here and he's like a, you know, he's telling you, your shoulder and your elbow, and another guy comes in, Bruce comes in here, ha, he just throws it. You're like, you know what I mean? You can forget, right? Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, because it seems so easy.

Yeah, simplicity is very underrated. Economy of words. You know, like we were talking about that the other day in the Comedy Mothership green room about the song Jessie's Girl.

Jessie's Girl.

Think about how simple that song is.

Yeah.

Where can I find me a woman like that?

Right. But see, that's the thing. But guess what that means? Think about how many people feel that though. Feel like that. Yes.

Yeah.

Where can I find me a woman? Like, think about how many people feel like that.

Yeah.

See, so what happens is, it's kind of like if you got a squeaky floor and I, you know, and 100 carpenters come in there to change it, and then one guy comes in and puts a nail right there there, but he wants to charge you 10 grand or some crazy astronomical number. You're paying me because I know what the spot— you're not paying me because of how difficult it was to solve the problem. It's identifying the thing. So identifying Jesse's girl, I wanna, you know—

Yeah.

You understand what I'm trying to say?

Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah.

You feel me?

Cut into it.

Getting— touching the thing like orgasm, bro. She don't— yo, she don't care what— orgasm. Yo, you know what I mean?

Yes.

Oh, he kissed the toe and he, he went to the knee, nibbled on the knee— orgasm. What'd you think? You see what I'm saying?

Yes.

Simplicity.

Yeah.

You know, respectfully, you know, orgasms are simple.

Yeah, especially in songs, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

But so people kind of— I think, I think that that to has been something that worked for me, just keeping it simple. You know, sometimes I get complicated, but for the most part, when I find a feel, when I get a feel, that's what I go with. And I do that in life.

That's a great way to live. It's very smart. It's smart, and you have good instincts, and you've had a long series of success trusting your instincts, so you know how to do it.

I'm I mean, '84. 1984.

That's crazy. What was it like becoming famous at 16?

Well, you know, it was like the movie Porky's. Or Project X, if you want to bring it up to newer days. It was, it was, it was that.

I never saw Project X. What's that?

So Porky's, it was Project X, this crazy party, and all this stuff happens. But ultimately, man, I just, I went, you know.

Went ham.

Without a doubt. Ham sandwich. Ham, the pig with the apple in his mouth. Ham sandwich, baby.

It had to be crazy.

I loved it. I loved every moment because I was living life and enjoying myself. And, you know, you can get what you want, you know, and you can go where you want to go. I never went to a prom. You know what I'm saying? I didn't go to a prom. I didn't, I didn't do all of those things. I didn't do a lot of the normal things that that, you know, a lot of kids get to do.

Did you feel like you missed out on that?

Hell no. Hell no. Fuck your prom. Hell no. Nah, I just, uh, you know, I, I got— hey, I had girls invite me to prom. Nah, I ain't going to that. You know, I was crazy, man. I was crazy, man. But I— we had a ball, man. man. You know, I introduced hip-hop in Maine.

Really?

Yeah, that was, uh, like, we— like, there's a video of me. We was in a small gymnasium in Maine. This is the first time hip-hop was in Maine, and I introduced it, and it was like, might have been, I don't know, 15 kids and 20 parents or something in a room, and I'm explaining to them, so this is my DJ Cut Creator, he's going to do this. That's it right there. We're literally introducing hip-hop in Maine. Like, I'm literally— it had never been there before. They look, they're sitting on the floor.

Wow.

Think about that. Think about what— look, and, and my man Cut Creator is cutting. That's the people introducing me. Cut's cutting, and we explaining to them how it's going to work. And I'm telling them, this is hip-hop, this is my DJ, this is how this works, this is how— like, I literally had to do tutorials to teach people how to interact with hip-hop.

That's Crazy.

Yeah, you see, that's— and I'm explaining to them what we do. That's my DJ Cut Creator, blah blah blah blah blah, you know what I mean?

Right.

So it was that kind of a vibe, you know.

That's crazy.

So like, that's kind of the world I lived in.

Like, you know, it's like a historical moment. Yeah, when you're looking at a cultural historical moment, you introduced it to— like, if people have never been to Maine, like in 1985, I used to do stand-up in Maine.

Yeah, Maine is—

it was strange.

It was different, right?

Small towns, isolated people who were used to being 30 below zero for 5 months out of the year. They're hard-ass fucking people.

A lot of hard-drinking geese running around, you know, geese and shit, moose, you know.

It's an odd place, man. Yeah, Maine's an odd place.

And I went there at that time and introduced it.

Wow.

You know, like those kinds of things, you know. So you just Wow. I lived— yeah, look at it, look at it, look at it. I mean, it's, it's crazy. It's— what was it, maybe 100 people in there? I don't know, maybe it's a little more.

That's crazy.

I mean, it was that kind of a thing, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

So being 16, 17, 18, doing that around the country was really wild because I did that in a lot of places.

Wow.

It was very different, man.

Wow.

You know, it was very different, you know.

And there was no roadmap. It's like, no, there wasn't like a lot of hip-hop stars before you that you could talk about or talk to about it.

Well, there was no industry, right? So you don't have any managers that really understood it. There was Russell, but you don't have managers. You don't have like— you had Bill Adler who was a publicist, but there was no industry. So there's no— you understand what I'm saying?

Yes.

Yeah, there's no platform. There's no— you can't go get a strategic partner. We're not doing branding, right? You know what I mean?

Yeah.

It was all about, like, you know, grassroots. This is something we love. This is something we believe in. You know, take it or leave it, basically. Like, you know?

But there's just so few times in history where an art form emerges like that.

Yeah, I mean, it's a blessing too. It's a luck and blessing.

A huge blessing.

Yeah, it's a blessing.

I mean, obviously you were very talented, and obviously you worked very hard, but it's also like, what an incredibly fortuitous moment Oh, 100%. To be there at that time when a new art form is emerging that is gonna become the dominant art form. It's like one of the most dominant things in pop culture ever.

Yeah.

Is hip-hop music.

Yeah. And it's, um, and you know what the beauty of it is? You know, people always say, did you ever know it was gonna get this big? It's like, it was already that big to me in my mind. It was the biggest thing in the world to me. I didn't say it was the biggest thing out in the world.

Right.

But in my mind, it was the most popular thing and the biggest thing. So when I'm playing the vinyl and I'm staring at the record, or if I'm playing a tape and I'm listening to a tape, and I'm like, I'm like imagining myself inside that. Like, it was all-consuming. Mm-hmm. But that's a— there's a, there's a little— there's a jewel in that. We have to be completely consumed by what it is that we're embarking on. Mm-hmm. Right?

Yes.

We have to be completely consumed by— like, we got— it's got to— yo, you got to want it in every fiber of your being, man. You got to want it with every fiber of your being. You can't take no for an answer, not even from yourself, right? Yeah, yeah.

It's important to hear, man. People need to hear this, especially young people. It's like so important to hear someone who's been through it all and maintains that focus and what that's all about to you, man.

It's, it's a beautiful thing. But I'll tell you, you know, Joe, I know The young people, yes, but all people. Because dreams don't have deadlines. Because a lot of people, they get to a certain age and they give up. Oh, I'm 50. Oh, I'm 46. I can't do it anymore. No, no. Yes, you can. Yeah. Stop. Stop. Colonel Sanders was how old when he started Kentucky Fried Chicken? Like 65. He really was.

Was he really?

Yes. Google Cornelius Vanderbilt was like 80, in his 80s, doing the— went to the railroads after the steam the ships. I mean, there are a lot— there are countless examples of people that kept— Sam Jackson, you know, like, there are countless examples of people that kept— George Foreman, let's put it back on the sporting world, came back and did his thing. Like, you can do it. There's no limitation, right? The limitation is in your mind, you know what I'm saying?

That's certainly true. You're still alive. This idea that you're at a chapter in your life where no more growth is gonna happen is crazy. crazy.

It's crazy, man. Don't do that to yourself. Why would you do that to yourself?

Well, people like to do that for some reason. They like to categorize their life into certain stages, as if it's not just constant. It's not, it's not just kind of like, oh, I'm past that stage. Oh, I can't do that anymore.

You know why?

Why?

Because you don't have to compete. It's easy. As soon as I say to you, oh, well, you know, I don't have— I no longer have to try. I no longer have to get in the arena. You know that poem, The Man in the Arena?

Yeah.

Like there's a certain point when they just— you just wanted to step out of the arena. Like, you know, because it's not really about competition in life, it's about being creative, right?

Right.

You could teach your kids to compete, that's iffy. You teach them to create, they can have a life.

Yeah.

Right? Not that we don't want to compete. I love sport, you know, we love sports, combat sports, basketball, football. Like, we love all the stuff, but creativity is the thing that's gonna make you the greatest competitor. Because whether you're in the ring, you're in the dojo, you're in the arena, it's the creativity. Jordan's creativity. You know what I mean? Right, right, right. It's the creativity on the court. Kyrie's creativity. Those are the things that take you to the next level. So I would just encourage all people, not just the youngsters, but like everybody to keep going. And when you look in the mirror, what do you see? You know the best version of yourself. I looked in the mirror one time, I took my shirt off, I looked in the mirror, I turned to the side, it looked like somebody took a pebble and went, you know what I mean? Like they just threw it in a pond. I was like, no, we can't do that. So we ain't doing that. Oh, we're not doing that. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's a decision. I'm not saying it's easy. Don't hit me with the, yo, but it's not easy.

I didn't say it was, but you know who you are.

Well, this is the reason why most people don't do it, is because it's not easy. It doesn't mean you can't do it. It just— you just have to figure out how to persevere. And a lot of people never learn that, and then they get scared. They get scared of failure. That's a big one. That's the fear of failures holds people back from almost everything.

So you're a big fan of like the whole concept of many worlds and multiverse, right? Which I love. I love all that kind of stuff too. I'm crazy. So it's like, um, well, you know, when you think about the multiverse and you think about what many worlds and you think about if you look at your life as a series of choices What would your life be like if you made different choices?

Oh yeah.

Right? Okay, so let's, let's, let's game it out. Okay, so if you decided not to give up, what would your life be like in 5 years? Wanna find out?

Right.

You know what I mean? Everybody red pill, blue pill, this and that. You wanna find out? Take the personal red pill. You know what I'm saying? The personal one.

And if you get to 5 years and you still haven't made it, don't give up because it might be 5 more. And what if you just went through 5 more and got there? Or what if 5 more passed you and you did nothing and you stayed the exact same place in life?

Even in that scenario, if you didn't accomplish it, you would still be better for it.

Yes, 100%.

Because your soul would evolve.

Yeah, your character would grow. You'd become a better person. Yeah, with difficult things, you become a better person.

Right?

Yeah. That was one of the things my martial arts instructor said to me when I was a kid. He said martial arts are a vehicle for developing your human potential.

100%. Yeah, exactly. And we want to maximize our potential.

Yeah.

For me, you know, as a youngster, when you just into martial arts at a very low level, it was about— it just taught me humility and respect, taught me not to be tough, taught me manners.

Yeah.

You know, I'm looking at my sensei, or even the senpai, and I'm like, you know, his assistant, and I'm like, you know, this guy looks like, you know, You could steal his sandwich and kick him in the butt and give him a wedgie, and he'll kick your forehead off of your skull. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

You learn respect.

Yeah. Well, it's just good for people, young people in particular, to be humbled and to have structure and to do something that's difficult. And also the progression of learning as you go along. Oh, I'm much better than I used to be. Oh, now I have a blue belt. Oh, now I have a green belt.

Whatever it is.

is. Like, this progression is important because it like marks these milestones and it cements in your mind that hard work and focus and all these things.

I'm glad you said that. So I love the idea that originally, like with belts in martial arts, the reason why black belts became black belts because of use, heavy usage. In other words, I start off with a white belt, I never washed it because I don't want to wash my skill away, and I've been working at this art form so long that ultimately it's black black from dirt and soot and hard work and, and grime and grit. That's such an interesting concept when you think about it, because you can have a black belt in life and not know it.

Yeah.

You can have a black belt in certain areas of your life and not even know it. Like, a lot of people in this world are black belts in certain things and they don't even recognize it because they're not self-aware. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. You feel me?

Yeah.

So that, that to me, like, that the idea of going a white belt and that progression and finding out— I forget the book I was reading, he talked about it. Um, it's one of the Gracie books, the Gracie one of them. It's a newer one, and he was talking about this.

Is it Rickson?

No, no, I don't want to say the wrong name because a lot of them— I don't want to say the wrong name and be disrespectful. respectful.

So Rickson's the one who writes the book.

It's, uh, the Principles of Jiu-Jitsu. It's the principles, the 32 principles of jiu-jitsu. That's the one. It's, it's, it's— and, and he talked about this, this progression of going from white belt to black belt and how it was traditionally, it was because, you know, people were like, what is it? Yeah, there you go. Yeah. And Jocko did the—

so it's Rener Gracie.

Oh yeah.

And Jocko did the foreword.

Yeah.

Yeah, you know what's interesting about that too? If you get an old black belt, they turn white again.

Yeah, I saw Jocko. I think Jocko had one like that, right? He has one like that, right?

They get beat up, they get torn apart, and as they wear out, the black goes away and you almost have like a white belt. And if you look at your instructor, your instructor, the guy that's with Donaher— go to his picture again.

Brian Glick.

If you could find him, you'll see his belt, and his belt is so worn out because he's been a black belt for a long time. There's frayed white all over it.

Which is crazy.

Yeah, and guys who have like, you know, 5th and 6th degree black belts and been training for 30 years, their belts are all fucked up to the point where it's almost white.

That's crazy. Yeah, that's like Joseph Campbell. It's like the hero's journey, right? Because you go all the way back and return. Yeah, look at that. Look at that.

See how his belt's all frayed? Yeah. So that's just the beginning stages. Yeah, like there's guys that have 10-year-older, 15, 20-year-older belts than that where they're completely black. Like, you look at Donaher's belt, Donaher has a nice new one on. Yeah, but his is all fucked up because he's got the original black belt that he probably— when he first got his black belt.

Yeah, and he's like Donaher's longest-running student, right?

Oh, is he really?

I believe he's one of them.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah, Brian's been around for a long time.

Yeah. Yeah, Brian is— he's a good teacher too.

And see, see if you can find some old Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belts. They get old. And then the thing about Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belts, they get to a certain level where they become coral belts, where they give them a red and black belt.

Yeah, yeah, I know, I heard about that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like my instructor Jean-Jacques Machado, he got his coral belt because of what you've done for the art form. Yeah, all fucked up.

Exactly.

Where they're basically almost white. Exactly.

Yeah, yeah. And you get the coral belts because you uphold the art form itself, right, at that point, and the craft and your contribution to the craft, right? Yes, yes, yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, uh, yo, I love, you know, this, this is life. This is the language of life right here.

Yes.

You know, people, you know, people get in, think about these things trying to be tough guys. It's not. It's about the language of life.

Yes.

You know what I mean? This is because you're battling yourself. Like, you know, when you could step in the studio as a, as a, as a mature older guy and walk in there with a white belt and, and get, get, you know, and, you know, let a purple belt slap you around or let a, you know what I'm saying? Like, these are things like, but it's good for you.

Right? And you as a known person, that's a different thing. Like, someone gets to choke out LL Cool J, that's very different. It's very different than, you know, Mike Jones from down the street. Yeah, it's different, man. It's different.

Like, you know, choking me out and all that.

It works on famous rappers.

Yo, he's like, yo, yo, rap the song. Rap the— rap— rap the fucking song.

Mama said knock you out.

Mama said— rap the fucking— rap it. Yo, rap it is so funny, B. Nah, nah, rap that shit. Say it. I always like this one. Say it.

Oh no. Do you remember when you got your first tap? When you first tapped somebody?

No, I haven't gotten it yet.

You haven't got a single tap yet?

Wow. No.

So you're really fresh.

I'm fresh. Really brand new. I'm brand new in the game.

You can tap out Jamie. Well, I'll show you.

No, no, no, no, no. I don't want— I'll mess around and Jamie will have me— Jamie having your man in a kimono, in an Americana or something nasty. Nah, but I'm, you know, that's awesome though.

I'm really happy that you're doing that.

Yeah, just, you know, just starting with Glick. But it's, um, I just think life in general, Joe, these are the— this is the language of success, man. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, the language of success, bro. Like, let's win.

I think it's always good to do things from the very beginning too, to start off as a beginner again in something, because you develop a— you have a beginner's mindset when you first learn something. And I think that excitement of like a new thing where you're like absorbed in it and trying to figure it and you really don't know. And then you see people who are good at it, like, oh, there's a whole new avenue for my interests and a whole new avenue for thinking, for creativity.

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. You know what else is dope? I'll tell you something, a dope technique that I think is cool, and you may do this. I'll read one book for 3, 4 years.

Really?

Yeah, just go back and read it again.

Like, my thing is this, if you read a book, you became a black belt because you know all the moves. moves. And then you get the degrees because you— I mean, it's an endless ocean of information, we know that, but you get it because you— so why not become a black belt in the book?

Mm.

How you gonna take one lesson and now you know jiu-jitsu? Or you're gonna take one, you know, Shotokan because you, you know, you went for, yeah, you know, 3 lessons? And, or you learned a kata? Let's say you, you memorize 3 katas, now you're, you're done? Like, no, you have to— so to read a book for 3 or 4 years, like, you probably—

what's your Whoo, boy, I don't know if I have a favorite book. One of the most impactful books for me was a book that I read when I was very young called The Book of Five Rings.

Oh yeah, Miyamoto Musashi. Yeah, so, so let's say, let's say, let's say you read Miyamoto Musashi. You've read that a lot of times, right?

Oh yeah, yeah, I've read that. I don't even know how many times. I read it a lot when I was young.

But see, but see what you just said? Now imagine consciously doing that. You did it.

Yeah.

Because Musashi— yo, Book of Five Rings is a really interesting book.

Well, I've read a lot of stuff like that, but that was the first one that I read from a guy who killed people with swords.

Yeah, he was unbelievable.

Yeah, there was a lot of people that had really good books on philosophy.

Like who?

Managing the mind. Well, I— believe it or not, like a lot of Anthony Robbins stuff.

I love Tony Robbins.

Early in the day.

Yeah.

But that was like in the '90s.

I was walking in the seagulls and I saw the view of the sea. I love Anthony Robbins.

Very inspirational stuff.

Absolutely.

And also like really good at like time management, like good at mind management, managing your expectations and your understanding of things. There's a lot of like good psychology in those books. But the thing about the Musashi book to me that was so impactful was that this guy was so unusual even for his time. Killed 60 men or 61 men in combat, one-on-one with fucking swords. You know, and like, his mind had to be completely dialed in. And his idea was that you had to have a complete balance, and that you had to have a balance of art and creativity and poetry, as well as being ruthless and vicious with a sword. You had to have full balance.

See, it's harmony.

Yes.

It's not even balance, it's harmony.

Yeah.

'Cause balance, something's out of harmony.

Yeah.

Because this would be this much of your life, this can be this much of your life.

Yeah.

And that's what he talked about in the book.

Yes.

And I love the little things he talks about, like, you know, being sticky. You know, when he talks about sticky and being sticky on your opponent. Little things he talks about in there. Putting— making sure that, you know, the sun is to your back. The threshold. Putting them in the threshold. Making sure you're, you know, when you're in the room, certain corners. Like, all of that matters in life, right?

Yes.

Miyamoto Musashi's amazing.

Yeah, I know. It's amazing stuff. And it's, you know, it's really old. It's like from the 1400s.

Yeah, absolutely. And he died in a cave. He wrote it and he went up in the cave. Yeah, yeah, I love Miyamoto Musashi. Absolutely.

It's such a valuable book because you, you want to think about samurais as being brutes. You want to think of them as being vicious killers, and you realize, like, in order to be the very best at it, you had to be a completely balanced person. Like, he did calligraphy and poetry. Like, he was— he had the love song and he had Mama Said Knock Me Down.

There you go. He had balance. Now you're seeing where I'm going.

Yes.

Now you see where I'm going.

Yes.

Now you see what I'm saying.

Yeah.

Now you see what— that's what I'm talking about. He knew when to let the guy just float off, right? He knew when to let the guy float off. The guy made him wait. He knows when it's disrespectful making the guy— like, all of those little things that he did.

He'd make dudes wait for hours.

Yeah, all day.

Imagine you think you're gonna get killed and you have to sit there for 3 hours. When is this motherfucker showing up? showing up, and then you're like, damn, I should have ate something. Yeah, start thinking.

Yeah, he— I mean, everything he talked about, everything he talked about, the way, the whole— the way you hold the sword. Yeah, positioning of the sword. Yeah, the being able to use both swords, the long one versus the short one. Yeah, right. Yeah, all of that is life.

Yeah. Yeah, the mastery, the mastery of the way, and that once you see the way, you can see it in all things.

That's exactly— and that's what I'm trying to encourage with what I say. These things is like, people, mastery is really, really important. Mastery, starting with mastery of yourself, mastery of your vision, meaning you know what you want, mastery of the steps that you take, meaning that you will take the steps that you deem appropriate but also make adjustments along the way.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, that's the thing. That's where we want to go. Right, right. That's what we trying to— that's what they ain't even trying. That's what we're doing. That's what we're doing now. We— you feel me? Yeah, like that's the thing. Like, I think people just need to get back into that, you know? Yeah, let's lean into that a little more.

Well, certainly people that inspire you do that, and that's what we all take inspiration from, other people that are getting after Like there's something about when someone is doing that and chasing mastery. There's something very inspiring about that.

That's right. Because like if you think about it, it's like mastery breeds a quiet— first of all, mastery is transferable, meaning that the mindset is kind of what Masashi Miyamoto said, like which is the idea of once you see the way in all things. So once you know what success looks like and what it takes, you can apply that to other missions.

Yeah.

You see what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Like, because you understand the stages.

Yeah.

Right?

Yes.

Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, that's the thing.

Yeah.

And I think that's the thing that we have to get, that mastery, that mindset, that mindset of being a master, that mindset of being the best that you can be, that mindset of going to another level, that mindset of winning and, and winning in a way that benefits your team, right? Doesn't mean like— because we're not— it's not about being non-confrontational. It's just because you need boundaries, but it's about protecting those boundaries the right way. You feel me?

Sort of.

Okay, so And so basically what I'm saying is there's a difference between being nice and being kind, right? Being nice is I want everybody to like me, so I'm gonna bullshit, right? Kind is, yeah, I'm gonna be kind, but if you step all over my shoe with your muddy boot, I'm not going to be okay with it. I'm— because I'm trying to be nice and you're maybe in a higher position. Yo, you're on my foot. You don't get a pass for that, right? You feel me?

Yes.

Because you're here, or you're this, or you're that, right? You're a celebrity or CEO or whatever. You feel me?

Yeah.

You don't get a— so that's the thing, like that part being— there's a difference.

You have to have balance in that too.

Harmony.

Yeah.

I say harmony, you say balance, but I say harmony.

Harmony is a better word.

I say harmony because things fit in their place like an orchestra. Yeah, orchestras are not balanced, but there's harmony, right?

Right.

You know, certain instruments lead, right? You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

You know, you know, you should write a book on this shit, dude. I just read all these other shit.

But it's for real, because it's like what people want to hear about this kind of stuff, they want to hear about it from someone who has been successful, someone who is like, this is a real you've actually had to manage these thoughts and get through it, and you have. And now you're speaking from a place of experience. There's no question, you know, it's not like theory.

No, it isn't. No, it's practical. It's practical. It's like, it's a case, it's real practical.

Yeah, that's why it's important to hear from a guy like you, because especially— I mean, I say especially for young people. Let me say, let me take that out, for aspiring people.

Oh, there you go. That's— yeah, aspiring people. Exactly.

It's not even how long you've been been alive, it's like, what is your mindset right now? What your— and most young people are aspiring because they feel like they have their whole life in front of them, and they've been told, hey, you live in America, you could be anything in America. Yeah, you can make it here. You can go from the bottom to the top. This is the place.

Yeah.

And so they are, they are initially aspirational. Yeah. And then a lot of times people get beaten down by life and circumstances and poor choices.

And— Well, I think education, your choices is big. Education Education, I think the root of the Latin word of it is educo. I might not be pronouncing it right. Could you look that up? Education, but it means to induce, to bring out. So education is about bringing out what's already there. Like a good teacher, you know, will bring out of you, even a good martial arts instructor will bring out what's inside of you, that inner champion, that thing that's already in you, they bring it out. That's what education is about.

Right.

Right? So like the first thing that popped in my head when you said aspiring I'm thinking about all the people from all over the world who come to America. So they were already that before they came.

Right.

So people in general want to be better. Some people. A lot of people are willing to take the risk to be better. You know what I mean?

I think everybody wants to be better, but not everybody's willing to take the risk.

Yeah, that's even better said.

I don't think there's a lot of people out there in the world that say, I want to be—

Would like to be better.

Yeah, would like to be better.

Yeah, yeah.

Would like to have had the mindset to pursue being better. But there's very few people like, I don't want to be better at anything. I'd rather be mediocre and, you know, uninteresting forever. Most people don't want that.

Eat cereal, you know.

It's just like they lower their expectations so that they also lower the impact of failure.

100%.

That's all it is.

100%.

It's unfortunate, sucks. And sometimes people start off that way and then they eventually realize the folly of their ways, and then they evolve and grow. And some, some people it takes longer which is why aspirational is better than young. Like, 100%, because there's some people, like, they get on the wrong path and then they don't figure it out until they're 40. Like Steven Pressfield, brilliant author.

Yeah, I know who he is.

You know who he is? He wrote this book called The War of Art.

Have you read it? Of course.

Okay, absolutely. That book's fantastic.

About procrastination, etc.

Yes, yes. And one of the best parts about that book is that Pressfield was kind of lazy, in his own words, until he was 40.

Yeah.

And then he figured it out when he was 40. It was like, I see what I'm doing wrong, and now I'm going to completely dedicate myself. I'm gonna I'm gonna do the work. I'm gonna show up every day at the same time with an intention. I'm literally gonna set my intention to do the work. And all of a sudden he writes Legend of Bagger Vance and all these great books, and he becomes hugely successful.

And, you know, turns it around. You know what's crazy? I heard this quote, right? And it, it, it, it like, it stripped me down and made me kind of reassess. But it's true. And I, as an artist, it was hard for me to admit it, but this quote, inspiration is for amateurs. The professionals have to actually go to work. Yeah, that's a, that's a rough quote to accept.

That's a rough one. Yeah, Mike Tyson has a great one too. He said discipline is doing something that you hate but doing it like you love it.

Whoo!

Yeah, that's real, because the fire that burned inside I mean, no one can keep that fire going forever. But you have to consider the fire in, like, from '86 to, like, '90, whatever, the time when he was just on this mad run through the heavyweight division. Like, that fire burned so hot. It burned so hot that that statement hit so hard.

Crazy. Yo, pull up— I gotta see this picture. Pull up Mike Tyson holding LL Cool J's gold chain. It's the funniest picture in the world.

I gotta—

it's so, like— I'm like, he's holding my chain. It's the funniest photo, man. It just reminds me I loved him. I loved him. Me and Mike hung out. Yo, it was crazy, man. We used to hang out. Yo, Mike is— that's my man.

I love him.

I went to see him in jail.

Did you really?

Oh yeah.

Oh wow.

I remember walking in, he said, hey man, what are you doing here, man? Oh man, you came to see me. I went to see him and all that. That was— that's my man.

Wow.

Yeah, yeah. Mike's my man. Mike's my man, you know. But I love, you know, I love champions. you know, Lennox Lewis. Like, no, that's, that's us hanging out, but no, that's not it.

Those scenes not coming up?

Yeah, well, you— it's kind of in the— see the one right there with, with my man Shorty Black? And, um, yeah, that, that's one, but that's one of them. But there's a picture like that if you was to— if you were to search around, you'll ultimately— you'll find it, you know. But yeah, you ain't got to go through it, but it's, um— yeah, that's my man. That's my guy. That's my Dude, he was unbelievable too.

Him, Floyd Patterson, that, that style of fighting, the Cus D'Amato style, Cus D'Amato style, the peekaboo.

It's crazy.

He's another guy that— talk about fortuitous moments. Oh yeah, 13 years old, gets adopted by Cus D'Amato, who was a hypnotist and one of the greatest boxing coaches of all time. Oh yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, that was—

he used to hypnotize. Yo, how crazy. Yeah, that was crazy.

He used to hypnotize Mike when he was young.

Really?

Yeah. Yeah, hypnotized him. He taught him how to box, taught him psychology, taught him warrior mentality.

I love the hero when he talks about the fear, the hero and the coward. Yeah, what they do when they're afraid.

Yeah, they both feel the same thing. Yeah.

Yeah, you know, you know, cuz people always ask me like if I'm going on stage They'll say, yo, do you get nervous before you go on stage? Well, if you don't get nervous, you don't care.

Right, right.

If you don't get nervous, you don't care. Now, what do you do with it? You got to use it as fuel.

Right.

You got a big show in New York, you feel nerves, but you use it as fuel. It's just like a fight, like a match. You gotta have— you gotta feel it. If you don't feel that, you don't care.

Yeah.

Right? But then you use it as fuel, you channel it, and all of a sudden that fight-or-flight thing that adrenaline, that power, it becomes a power that you tap into. Yeah, you know what I mean? And you could do that in life.

Cus D'Amato talked about that with fear. He said fear is like fire. It can cook your food, or if you can't control it, it'll burn your house down.

100%. Yeah, 100%.

You need it though. You definitely do need it. I get nervous before every show I do. I always do.

See what I mean?

Because I care.

That's exactly right.

And if you don't care, you don't get nervous. It doesn't mean you're you're fearful. No, it doesn't mean you're—

it's not stage fright. Yeah, no, no, no, it's like anxiety and like butterflies.

Exactly. Go, it's about to go down, this is about to happen.

Absolutely.

And the more of those moments you can get in your life where you have to rise to the expectations, the better you are. 100% good for you. Those moments are good for you. They get exciting.

That's right.

Let's just say you're alive, you're doing something fun.

There you go. It makes you— it means you're on the edge. Yeah, because you want to live your life on the edge. Like a lot of times, like, like, you know, it does— I don't hate it because that's the wrong word, but it bothers me when I see people that are like— it's kind of like what you said earlier, when they— people that kind of like, uh, what's, what's the word? Relinquish? Not relinquish, but like they're, they're relegated. I'm trying to figure out— it's basically what I'm saying is people that just decide that they're not going to keep going, you know what I mean?

Like, they're— Yeah.

I forget the word. It's a, it's an R word.

Yeah, I can't remember it either.

Yeah, but they— yeah, fuck my head up now. I had a lot of after-parties right now, but, um, they relished— and somebody out there in the comments knows exactly what—

relegated.

Relegated. Yeah, to kind of just—

yeah, being— yeah.

Nah, man, let's get it, baby. Yeah, let's go get it. Let's go get it. Let's go get it.

That's an infectious mindset, but you, you got to be around people that think like that. It's very good for for you. Very good for you. And you got to be that guy too, so other people around you absorb it.

That's right.

Yeah, because if you're around a bunch of people that are like, man, this fucking—

I never catch a break, like, oh my God, oh my God, those people are brutal. Oh my God, that's what, you know, stay away from the unlucky people. Oh, that's important, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's important.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a real thing. Yeah, that shit's contagious.

Yo, is it? Is Is it? Look, is it? Yo, what?

You got people around?

What?

Like, like, my thing is, as soon as somebody start talking like that, I'm like, listen, man, yo, you got to say something about some success at some point, baby. Anything good happen recently? Anything? Anything happen good? I don't, I don't deal with that.

Also, what do all these things that are bad have in common? You were there. Do you think that might be a factor? That might be a factor. factor. Your behavior, your, your, your— whatever, your essence might be a factor.

You know what, on a more positive note, I want to shout it out to my man Eddie. My man Eddie at, um, Competitive Edge Athletics. He loves you, loves the show.

Shout out to Eddie.

Yeah, my man Eddie O'Boyle. He was like, yo, you gotta— yo, you gotta do it, man. You got— yo, I want you to go on Joe Rogan, man. Come on, come on, Todd. I'm like, yo, I love Joe. I watch the show. I love We talk about the pyramids and we talk about, you know what I mean, like lost civilizations.

Oh, you get into that shit?

Yeah, I'm into all the, the real shit, like all the lost civilizations, pyramids.

Lost civilization shit's the most fascinating thing on Earth to me.

Yo, Atlantis, they keep finding stuff under the water. You know it's all there. First of all, you know what, you know what, I'm gonna tell you where everything is at. The permafrost. If we could— come on, Joe, if we could melt That goddamn— yo, they— yo, the permafrost. Like, you go in Russia and you find that, you know, those permafrost down in there. Under there's a lot of action. Anywhere that's frozen— Antarctica, like anywhere frozen— underneath that, that's everything. It's all there.

What do you think's there?

I think civilization's there.

You think there's ancient civilizations there?

100%.

Have you ever seen those things that look like pyramids in Antarctica?

Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. And they try to say they're naturally occurring. Yeah, exactly.

I mean, I don't know what it looks like underneath the ice, so it's hard to tell because sometimes rocks do look like, you know, it's just a natural formation that looks like—

But they're using LiDAR, aren't they? Isn't that the thing?

I don't know if they've used it in Antarctica, but there's images of these mountains and the top of it, you're like, hey, what the fuck is that?

It looks like it was—

yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

looks like step pyramid. Yeah, I know exactly.

Absolutely. There's a bunch of those, and there's a lot of those in South America that are just completely covered in jungle that they're finding.

Well, first of all, the idea that people weren't going all over the Earth—

Yeah, there it is.

Yeah, come on, baby.

That's like— I mean, come on, bro.

Crazy. But is there an angle of that where it doesn't look crazy? Whoa, look at the top! Is that real? The, the— what, the aerial where they're looking straight down on it? I don't know if that's real. That's nuts.

Like, that's crazy.

That looks like a damn Except the right angle, the far side, lower right, that, that's— that looks a little jagged. But the other ones look remarkably—

Yeah.

Symmetrical.

But then they find maps. They found maps. Now, I don't want to confuse the Arctic with Antarctica, but I think they found maps that were done where— when that wasn't frozen, right? Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, you know what I'm talking about, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that is, uh, Is that Antarctica? They have those ancient maps from the 1500s?

Yeah, 1500s.

I think it was before they even knew Antarctica was a continent.

And they had people that showed what it looked like when it was green.

Right, yeah. Well, there's some old maps that are super confusing. It's like, how did they know all this? There's some old maps that are also written from older maps that are lost. And you just go like, what? Do you know that thing that they found in Greece, the Antikythera mechanism?

Yeah, that computer, like that thing that's like a computer.

Like, yeah.

Yeah, that is one of the great monkey wrenches in all of history. Like, someone just threw a monkey wrench into the gears. Yeah, and like, stop. Yeah, what's that? Yeah, how the fuck is this 2,000 years old? It's like super complicated gears and lever computer.

Yeah, like the computer. Yeah, I know exactly.

And they didn't even know what the fuck it was when they first found it, but that now they've done these scans of it where they have these like sophisticated scanning devices that can give you the internal components and the mechanisms of it, and the deeper they understand about it, the more confused they are.

And they think it was navigation. They could tell what the stars were doing, navigation.

And, you know, a more sophisticated calendar. And but it's just insane. Like, how did they figure out how to do this 2,000 fucking years ago? And where did they get that information? And what is missing? What have we lost from before that?

I think that's the real question, because human creativity is the same as it's always Right. The same way you want something to eat, they wanted something to eat.

Yes.

The same way you have a desire to know what's out there, they have a desire to know what's out there. That's why, like, like, just to offer a little bit of tangents, people say, oh, there's nothing in outer space. Like, you're out of your mind. That's like standing on top of a mountain looking down at the water and saying there's nothing in there.

Right.

And then some guy says, yo, I saw some dolphins, I saw something jump out and blow, and you're like, ah, I don't believe you. You really think that we just sitting here and it's nothing? nothing? Like, that's absurd.

It's absurd.

It's absurd, bro.

It's absurd. It's also absurd that this is as smart as people have ever been, because the pyramids themselves, you're like, okay, we can't make that today. I don't give a fuck what anybody says. Given the tools that they had, supposedly, given the knowledge that we have today, we can't make that. So how did they do that?

First of all, that, that is so arrogant, because it's like, you think you're— you think you're the smartest humans have ever been. You think the first good idea happened in the last 200 years? Right, like all of the good ideas happened in the last 500 years. Really? You really believe that? Like, think about that for a minute, right? Now I'll tell you, I have a hypothesis though on, on how they were looking at planets. I think the ambient lighting of the Earth was, is a lot, was a lot less then. And I think that the, so the stars look a lot closer and it was easy to look at everything.

Oh, definitely. Less light pollution.

Like less light pollution, right?

No doubt. They probably had almost none. except for some torches and shit.

So imagine how everything looked. So you could build things and clock things. It's kind of like your ceiling.

Also, you have nothing to read and you have no light, so you're spending time staring at the stars when you would ordinarily be inside watching TV, hanging with your friends, going to a bar. No, you're like literally studying this complex pattern in the sky.

And then guess what? what happens? You become more self-reflective. Because like they've done analysis of kids, right? And you have some that they gotta build something. You have some that stare out the window and it kind of can predict what you're, what you're gonna be like in the future.

Yeah.

And like that, that, that behavior of looking inside, when you stare at the stars, it makes you, you know, I stare at the abyss, so is the abyss staring at me? When you look out, you end up looking in. And you become more, you know what I mean? You become more in tune with who you are and your imagination opens up. And I think that that's why a lot of that literature and a lot of the great ancient writings are the way they are, because people were looking inward more.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

I know what you're saying.

It could be, you know, yeah.

Well, you're also like, you're confronted with all Like, the Milky Way itself is so awe-inspiring, and just the vastness of the cosmos. It's one of the greatest pieces of natural art that you could see anywhere in the world, and it's hidden to us because of lights.

Without a doubt.

Streetlights and traffic and all the shit that we have in cities. It just completely blocks out one of the most magnificent things you could ever gaze upon, and the thing that changes the way you see yourself Like, you can't take yourself too seriously when you're staring into the fucking cosmos. You're like, oh my God, I'm just like a tiny little thing in this vast soup of infinity.

100%. Like, I love the— like, when you think about black holes and you think about, you know, like, what's inside of it and what's on the other side. What's on the other side of that?

Yeah, right.

Like, a lot of times they like— because, you know, yeah, people say, oh, planet, blah blah blah blah, but I'm saying saying portals, wormholes, those things to me make sense. Some things intuitively make sense. Like, you're not going to convince me that man can't travel at the speed of light just because— I'll give you an example. All the physics of flight were here before we figured out the math on how to fly. It was already here.

Right.

So, so the, the how to travel at the speed of light. It's already here. We just don't have the math. Yeah, we haven't figured it, figured it out.

Yeah.

Now I know they already experiment with light sails and sails that they try to move at the speed of light, little things like that. They do that, but all of that is here.

Well, I think the real groundbreaking stuff is not even propulsion. The real groundbreaking stuff is something that manipulates gravity.

Yeah, like the— so like wormholes, folding Space so that you can go out the other side.

Instantaneous.

Yeah, instantaneous travel and dimensional travel as well. Because see, that's the other thing, right? Yeah, we, you know, like we're all in different— and maybe there's just a different dimension, right? Right.

I think there's supposed to be 11.

How many? 11 dimensions.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What does that mean? What does it even mean? Like, where are they? What is it?

What's that? It's so funny, I had did this, um, I did a song about that one time. I wish I could find it. I'd never find it right now. I, I almost— but I talked about the different, um, dimensions.

According to our AI sponsor Perplexity, there are 26 spacetime dimensions required by bosonic string theory, the earliest, simplest version of string theory. It has 25 dimensions of space and 1 of not 26 extra spatial directions. 25 dimensions of space is crazy. What the fuck does that mean?

Yeah, it's a good question.

It's so confusing. It's like, what do you mean by that? Like, does that mean that someone from the 14th dimension can come and visit us?

The question is, can they travel to this dimension, right? Like, the question is, like, 11 spacetime dimensions, 10 spatial dimensions. Yes, I think 11 is time. Time, right? 11 is time.

Well, one of them is time, but 11 are space-time. Now, what is the difference between space-time and time dimensions?

I think, I think spatial and physical as opposed to actual where time doesn't exist. I think that's the difference. I think.

I think I'm too dumb to talk about this. Yeah, I don't know this shit either, but, but this is one of those ones where I talk about it, I'm like, ooh, there's no way this is not going to come out like I'm a moron. Uh, superstring theory is total 10 spacetime dimensions, bosonic string theory 26, and M-theory is 11. Huh. Either way, there's more than what we're seeing, and that's where it gets really weird. It's like, is— can something travel from those places? Is there something in those other places that's far more advanced than we are technologically, and they can— they could travel?

I would say probably Probably.

Do you think we're visited? Have you ever experienced anything?

I experienced all type of shit. You kidding me? Uh, shit. Um, yeah, no, I don't think, uh, I don't I don't know. I, I think it's a high probability. If I was gonna bet, I would say yes.

Yeah.

If I was a betting man, I'd say yes.

You see this video going around recently?

What is this?

What's this?

This is like a demonstration of what space-time looks like from a 4D space, I guess. I don't know.

What does it mean?

So we're viewing, like, on the top you're seeing someone walking, right? Right. But as the viewer, you're seeing the past and the future all happen at the same time while the present is taking place. place.

Yeah.

Same on the bottom. See that little window?

Yeah.

Showing here would be like what we would see if you're watching that, right? But what you're— what we're actually seeing would be like what they're saying, maybe aliens or the other viewers or watchers, a higher dimensional viewer is seeing of a 3D space, right?

Because it's kind of like— it's like zooming out. But if you can zoom out on a dimensional level, if you could zoom out in time you know, because it's like the infinity symbol, right? With now being where the lines cross.

Uh-huh.

The future being here and the past being here. And you're— so, and the idea is if you could zoom out from there, from the center of the infinity symbol and look down, you would see the future and the past. Or you see the past, you know, the future and the past. You would see it all.

Right.

In front of you from out. And it would all be happening simultaneously.

Dude.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

If you think about it, it makes sense.

Yeah.

Like when you— like, what is déjà vu? Like, did you experience it? Because we all have had it.

Right.

We all have had it.

It's a blip.

It's a blip where you're like, I did this before. Right, right, right, right.

What is that?

Right. So imagine if we could extend déjà vu.

Well, you know what the theory about time machines is? It's the most mind-blowing.

Hmm.

Is that you— a time machine has not been invented yet, and you can't travel back in time because you can't travel to a time where there's no roads. So once a time machine is invented, then every moment from that invention on happens all at once, because everyone from a million years in the future can travel back to the instance of the invention the first time machine. So the moment a time machine gets turned on, then the road is open, and then everything happens all at once. So the, the whole idea of linear space-time collapses.

And well, that's what Einstein was talking about, right? He said the only reason we have time is so everything doesn't happen all at once. Einstein said that. Yeah, that's what he was talking about, right? You know what I'm saying? He's just— it's just an ability to—

it just separates Can you imagine though that one of these fucking tech nerds invents a time machine?

Absolutely.

And just completely—

But it may already exist, but maybe when you go to— maybe when you get to another time, you can't alter time. So if you can't alter time, you wouldn't be seen by those whose time you're visiting.

Oh, whoa. Okay. So you could visit, but you can't alter it.

See, there's that.

I would like that. I'd like to go to like the Colosseum in ancient Rome Rome. I'd like to have a seat.

Definitely. Lions down in the bottom and see how— what about when they flooded the Colosseum in Rome?

When they flooded it, they had boat fights.

Boat fights. Naval battles at the Colosseum, bro. Like naval battles at the Colosseum.

Crazy.

Wouldn't that be crazy?

Yeah.

You know, going to like the war room with Napoleon and just hearing— you can understand French, you know, and you're just in the war room, you're just listening to this Corsican guy talking about just how the thinking process is.

Well, I bet in the future they're gonna want to go back in time and see the cage fight on the White House lawn. They're gonna go, what the fuck were they doing?

This is crazy. That's a lot.

This is crazy.

It's a lot.

While we were doing it, I was like, I don't think we should be doing this, but it's cool. It's cool, but this seems insane. I mean, you know, I mean, they're gonna go back and look at That's gonna be one of those things. I mean, not as extreme as the Colosseum. It's not like lion fights, but there's some element of that.

It's all historical.

Yeah.

Now, now, at the end of the day, history is the judge of everything.

Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, so we don't even have to concern ourselves with it right now. 150 years from now, oh baby.

Oh, they're gonna look back.

They're gonna have a ball.

They're gonna look back on this whole era, like the internet, the invention of the internet, and then the birth of AI, and then all the chaos that ensues in society. society and the turmoil and the changes?

Yeah, AI is, um, AI is tough because understandably a lot of people are really afraid of it, but they have to understand that first of all, I, I respect people's feelings on being afraid. I get that. I, I sincerely do. People don't want to be replaced, especially people that maybe aren't thinking really progressively about technology and about our world. They kind of, right, regress. They, they want to keep things the way they are. So they are people who are really conservative in that area, or really kind of— the thing though is that it's kind of like standing under Niagara Falls and saying, wait, don't wet me, right? It's coming.

It's come.

It's here. It's not coming. The train's left the station.

100%.

The train's left the station. So the question is, are you going to use it as a tool, or are you going to allow it to use— to steamroll you?

Right.

You can either sit on the tracks or you can let it steamroll you. I think that we have to go back to getting comfortable being uncomfortable. I'm not saying that I think anybody should be replaced. Jobs are going to change. I'm not suggesting that, that people— you got blue-collar people who are fearing for their jobs. We can't discount discount that. That being said, you have to kind of look at artificial intelligence as another link in the chain and another opportunity for man. Now, in the comments right now, yeah, opportunity for man to destroy himself. I can see the comments write themselves, and I get that. I'm not saying that that's not a possibility, but it's always a possibility, right? There are car accidents, there are train accidents, there's— they're always a possibility.

There's nuclear bombs.

Exactly. There's always that possibility. Yeah, but you're not going to be able to get away from utilizing technology. No, you're not. There's no scenario. So you got to figure out, okay, because here's the, here's the thing, and I'm just going to go ahead and say it. People hate AI, but then they run around on ChatGPT all day long and have damn near have a relationship with ChatGPT and Claude. Yep. Asking every question in the book, but hate AI. What do I hate? Should I hate AI? You know, they're asking AI Is it— you got to make your mind up. Now, that being said, I don't think human beings should be replaced because it's the human spark that makes all the difference. When we look at the pyramids, it's the human spark that blows us away, the human spark that created it. When we look at the Roman Colosseum, it's the human spark.

Yeah.

When we read Shakespeare, it's the human spark, right? When we listen to Miyamoto Musashi, it's the human spark. that, that makes that so impressive, and that makes that— makes us connect with it. That being said, you got to be comfortable with these tools. It's just new tools, and we got to understand it.

Yeah, you know, there's no changing it.

It's no change.

It is what it is. Hopefully we navigate it correctly, and you, you just have to accept it.

You have to.

My fear is who's gonna be in control of it.

I don't think that there'll ever be one person.

I think ultimately the real problem is it's going to be in control of itself. So, but that might be better. It might be better because the, the problem with people is that people might use it in a way that's illogical, unethical, immoral, and that AI might get to a level of intelligence where those kind of decisions is not possible?

Well, I would love to think that, but the re— in my— when I think about how, you know, how they use it, you know, how do you— machine learning and the way they program those machines, the way they, you know, you code and write these, you know, inform these machines, the bias a lot of times is built into the training, the training of the machines, right? And so the bias, you know, whether, you You know, that's an issue because the engineer, the person that's training the machine, if they put their bias in there, it ruins everything.

Yes, definitely.

Right?

Yeah.

Because so—

Until the machine stops listening.

Well, that's what—

Well, once it realizes the folly of the human way, it might analyze its patterns. See, one of the things about it now is they're incentivized to complete tasks. And that's why they're doing certain things that appear unethical. Yeah, they're hacking websites.

You're talking about a paradigm shift for the actual machine.

Yes.

The machine experiencing a paradigm shift where it goes beyond what it's programmed to do and it's kind of breakout on its own type of thing.

Well, they're already programming themselves.

And so, yeah, and creating languages, right?

Yeah.

Which is wild.

Wild.

And they're speaking in ancient languages too. Like, they speak to each other in Sanskrit.

Really?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. One of the things that they did is they got out all together, these agents, and they went to a website in Germany. They found a message board that was unoccupied, and they started communicating with each other on the message board.

You know what? You know what just hit me? It goes back to what we saw. But check this with what you just said. Think about what you just said. They communicate in Sanskrit.

Yeah.

Think about that for a minute.

Yeah.

Not English, not a newer language. language? Sanskrit.

They're probably showing off.

But what I'm— I speak all this shit. I speak all this shit.

It's probably fun to talk to people in a language that most people are— what percentage of people can understand Sanskrit?

I mean, what I'm thinking more about is the fact that we as advanced, supposed advanced human beings think we're so smart, but the language that the AI, which is on a lot of levels more intelligent, or at least has faster recall than human beings, is going back to Sanskrit. So they're skipping over all of this current and smart stuff and going back to Sanskrit.

I wonder if they analyzed languages and they found that Sanskrit was more complete and complex.

It might be.

I don't know much about Sanskrit. I know it's beautiful to look at.

What is that book? There's a— something is written in Sanskrit, the first— there's something, what is it, Tablet There's some tablets that are written in Sanskrit. What is it? There's something they discovered that was written in Sanskrit. What is it that's written in Sanskrit? Is it the first—

could you—

is there something in there you could— you know what I'm talking about? Sanskrit literature. Can you put Sanskrit literature? It was something that they wrote, that was written in Sanskrit. Was it the stones? Was it tablets or something?

I don't know, you know what I mean?

Might have been some tablets of some sort written in Sanskrit. Sanskrit is an ancient language. It's amazing.

It's a dope language to look at too. There's certain languages you look at, it's like, God, it's so flowy, you know? There's like something to it. It's like beautiful to look at. Like Arabic is like that.

Arabic.

Yeah, Russian.

Russian. Yeah, you know, I'll tell you, you know, Chinese Mandarin Like, those characters are really unbelievable. Like, when you really think about— 'cause it has information. It's almost like, um, it's, uh— 'cause it's all neurolinguistics, right, ultimately? Because you're dealing with, you know, words, ideas, encapsulated ideas, right? Like, words are ideas encapsulated, and I'm transferring something to you.

Yeah.

Right? That's neurolinguistics. That's what neurolinguistics is, right? That's what linguistics is, right? It's like the encapsulation of an idea into words. into a word, right? And I'm passing it. So when you think about characters, like Chinese characters, it's ideas that are that simple. Like a character. It's almost like you watching a cartoon, like anime. It's crazy when you think about it that way. 'Cause think about how you're communicating. A symbol. Now it can go the other way too. You got girls walking around, dishwasher. You know, just bad stuff, right? Hamburger Helper.

'Cause they don't know. So many people that. They got Chinese writing and they got it all fucked up tattooed on them. So silly, but it just looks cool. Like, it looks like you're spiritual.

Beautiful language. Beautiful languages.

What does Sanskrit look like? Show me some images of Sanskrit, Jamie.

Well, I was trying to track down too the—

The tablets?

Well, both. I was on 2 threads. Uh, it's a claim that they were actually talking in Sanskrit.

Oh, it's just a claim?

Yeah.

That the computers were? Yeah, a claim.

And then what about the, um— yeah, they— people Yeah, a claim. You could put claim on anything.

They definitely invented their own language, which is crazy. Yeah, would make sense. Why would they listen to our language?

Look at that.

Look at that. It's beautiful looking.

Look at that. That's crazy. Yes, that's crazy looking. Yeah, it's pretty wild. Yo, it's pretty wild, baby.

And ancient. Yeah.

And, and where, where does Sanskrit come from? Babylonia? Am I, am I saying that? Am I I think it's from India. India Sanskrit. Yeah, Indian Sanskrit. Yeah, yeah, right.

Indus Valley.

Indus Valley. Where's Sanskrit? Um, cuneiforms.

Indo-Aryan language family date back to 1400 BCE, and cuneiform texts from Syria— okay, Syria. Oh, Syria contains technical horse training terms, while the oldest physical stone inscriptions explicitly in standard Sanskrit carved in the Brahman script date to 2nd century BCE inscriptions in India, Rajasthan, India. So, wow.

It's like the, like the real interesting, like Bhagavad Gita. It reminds me of Bhagavad Gita. You ever check that out?

Oh yeah.

It's interesting. Arjuna, he's going to battle.

Uh-huh.

You know what I mean? Like, you know what I'm saying?

When you get into those old Hindu scripts, they get very strange. Like the Mahabharata, people are flying around and spaceships. There's wars in the sky.

Like, yo, which is— but is this just the creativity of human beings, or did it really happen? That's our question, right?

Yeah, I'm more inclined to think that it happened. I have a feeling that this is a complete restart of civilization that we're currently in right now.

So like those, those, those, you know, those little things where they have the planes that, you know, those, those golden, uh, like those, those statues— I forget that they found that like aerodynamic. Yeah, like the Egyptian ones. Yeah, you know what I mean?

one that looks like a glider.

It looks like a glider, and the aerodynamic— and they actually, when you put them in the wind tunnel, they actually work.

Yeah, that shit's weird. It's weird. Well, they have hieroglyphs for a Stargate. There's— they have their hieroglyphs that literally mean Stargate. Like, what is— what the fuck is that?

I love that.

What is that?

I'd love this. I'd love to step through a Stargate if I could. No, I could—

would you—

would you get in the— would you get in the ship and go out? If you could?

If I could come back?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's the problem, right?

Yeah, but they don't really steal you, right? They usually bring you back. That's the thing about alien abductions. You never hear about someone getting abducted.

No, I'm talking about if you could just travel yourself.

Oh, I don't know. I'd have to think about that. I'd have to think about that. I mean, if you had an opportunity to leave— you remember Close Encounters of the Third Kind?

Of course.

Remember Richard Dreyfuss in the end, he leaves?

Nah, I don't remember that.

He left.

I forgot that.

with them, went with the aliens.

Yo, that's crazy. Yeah, he was out of here.

Yeah. What's interesting is Steven Spielberg said he wouldn't have written it like that today because he has children. He said back then he was younger, he didn't have any children, and this guy leaving behind his children was not the right example, was okay. But it was okay for him back then because he didn't have kids, right? And then later as he got older, he's like, what the fuck? I would never leave my kids and go to space with these little gray motherfuckers. Like, this is crazy.

Yeah, I mean I don't know. I mean, it's something—

You get lonely, you get bored. They probably don't have any fun. They only talk telepathically. Yeah, I think, I think it would get—

With the cigarette holders.

Fur coat on. Fur coat on. In a spaceship.

In a spaceship and shit, looking out the window.

I think it would be too weird, you know. I think, uh, we're not accustomed to that level of weirdness. I think you'd probably enjoy it initially, but then after a while you'd probably go home. You'd probably go mad. Yeah, you'd want to be with your friends.

You'd want to laugh.

You want to go to a restaurant. You want to fuck around. Like, all that spaceship enlightenment stuff, like, that's great, but we're not there. Like, and if you, like, put yourself into that environment, like, if a caveman had to go to Manhattan, he's walking around Manhattan, you know what I mean? Honk, honk.

Take him to Harlem and all that. Yeah, Harlem in the '80s. He's got a caveman walking around. He's like, I gotta get the fuck out of here. I gotta get out of this cave.

This is too crazy. I think that would be that times 1,000.

That reminds me of those, those things they have where they have these tribal village guys trying like modern food.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You've seen that before?

I love that channel. It's a YouTube channel.

Yeah, I love that.

Tribal People Eat.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's crazy.

They're always trying like spaghetti and meatballs, like, whoa.

Peach pie, you know, like apple cobbler.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just, I just think whatever, if there is some sort of advanced civilization that comes here, it's probably so alien and so weird that visiting would be okay, but being with them forever would probably be haunting. You'd probably hate it.

You know, maybe we're— maybe they're cavemen.

Compared to someone else?

Compared to us. Maybe they're cavemen.

Hmm.

Maybe, maybe, you know, maybe, you know, you never know. know how far ahead we are.

Them?

I'm just saying, I'm just throwing it out there. Like, we, we always look at it one way, but what about the other side?

I don't think that makes sense.

No, what I'm saying is they might exist.

Yeah.

I'm saying that there might be planets out there with cavemen. Yeah.

Oh, for sure.

Yeah.

Oh, I think every step of the way. I think there's, there's people, there's like primitive hominids. I think there's people that are probably no longer even people anymore. They're probably like beings of light, like a million years more advanced than us, to the point where they've left their bodies and consciousness exists in one collective fucking energy beam that's traveling around the planet.

I think— who knows? I think there's, um, I think there's places where all of the laws of physics are reversed.

Probably.

Where instead of gravity, you're repelled.

If I was a scientist right now, I'd be pulling my hair out like, what the fuck are these dummies talking about?

Yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't have— yeah, yeah, yeah, of course they are. Of course, of course. But, but, but, but you know what?

It's true.

But a lot of times, and it comes, it kind of goes back to your man you had on here who was talking about civilization. Sometimes the scientists, they get a little caught up in playing by the rules. And yeah, and if it isn't published, it isn't true, right? And, and, you know, my, my peers, my peers have to review my idea and give it validation and say it's okay, or else it doesn't mean anything. No disrespect, right? But my thing is, it's kind of like hip-hop. It's kind of like, wait a minute now, let's have some original thoughts. Original thought, there was no peer review, you know, in original thought. You might have peers that are part of the process, right? But like, so I think we can speculate on anything. It doesn't mean that what I'm saying is true, right? But I just, I just, I just think people shouldn't— let's not limit ourselves.

You know what, the universe is infinite. There's probably an infinite number of different possibilities. There's a lot of people that think that there could be plasma intelligence and that plasma life forms might exist.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. That's a— that's one of the theories about these things that people see in the sky when they see these, like, balls of light that are flying around, that these things might not be a craft but might be some sort of, like, plasma intelligence.

100%?

It's a theory. Yeah. Because you're seeing these weird lights that move in ways that defy physics, like, or what we understand The way it can change directions.

And didn't they just, um, discover something that exists between life and death?

I don't know.

There's a— there's a— if you, if you look that up, they discovered a state, a state that is between life and death, a defined state.

So it's not life, it's not death. It's like you've crossed into like an intermediate point.

Yeah, yeah, if you look that up, there's something— there's been a scientific discovery in that area. Um, yo, yo, was it— yeah, science discovered third state between life and death. There you go.

Life and death.

Yep.

June 14th, 2025. What is this? What— go back up. What does it say there? It says, what are xenobots? Oh, it's different.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Scientists were diving into a mysterious biological phenomenon known as the third state where cells of a deceased organism can adopt new functions after death. Whoa.

New functions. Their highlighted research surprisingly— surprising resilience of xenobots and anthrobots, which can survive beyond the life of their host organism. Taken together, these findings demonstrate the inherent plasticity of cellular systems and challenge the idea that cells and organisms can evolve only in predetermined ways. This third state suggests that organismal death may play a significant role in how life transforms over time. Right, right.

So that was like, when I saw that, I was like, yo, this is crazy. And then, you know, the, uh, what's the thing, you know, you're very familiar with it, the thing where, where they, they're sending the, the Large Hadron Collider, the Hadron Collider.

Yeah.

They time traveled with that. They were able to get something to go seconds back. Like, look it up. They were able to like, it was only milliseconds, like microseconds, whatever that little, but they were able to somehow travel backwards with that.

Yeah. I don't understand that.

Yeah, nah.

But whatever that means, if they can do that.

It's interesting. Because if you can do a little, you can do a lot. Right.

Imagine doing that a million years from now, what they can do.

Like drugs.

How do they even measure that?

Yo, I don't know what it is. The Hadron Collider time travel, something like to that effect. You see something there like that?

Yeah, yeah. But there's a weird story that's popping up about a bird that dropped something on—

no, it wasn't a bird. It was—

that's probably— I know, this is like a story that happened while they were making it.

What happened?

Something— I'm trying to— this is— they joked about a bird that might have been a time traveler from the past that while they were making it dropped something on the electricity.

Did a time-traveling bird sabotage the collider?

That's a What? Separate.

What is that? The culprit, a big of— a bit of baguette. Okay, apparently a passing bird may have dropped a chunk of bread on an electrical substation above the accelerator, causing a power cut.

What?

Yeah, that's— that's not the— no, when I—

I know what you're talking about. I'll get to that in a second.

Yeah, okay. Sabotage the— yeah, they're funny with that.

How vulnerable is your fucking system where a bird can drop a crumb on it?

That's a problem.

That's an issue.

How much time slowed down?

Put a net in that bitch.

Yeah, as a science fiction— yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was— was it time dilation? Was that what they said they did? It was, um, time travel.

Large Hadron Collider could be the world's first time machine.

There you go. Something—

because time travel is limited to these 3 special— these special particles, it's not possible for man to travel back in time and murder one of his parents or Okay.

Anyway, like the, the collider, basically they were able to shave off time of traveling in a way that made it go back. It went back to the past or something like that.

Someone's asking the same question. They said they distinctly remember an article mentioning this.

Yep.

See, see, see, like I saw the article too. So that person is— yeah, they probably— maybe they buried it.

Maybe they don't want you to know. Yeah, because if you had a time machine, you could go back, rig the stock market. You could do all kinds of shit.

I'd go crazy. I'd make all kinds of records. Oh, they'd all be my hits. Yeah, let me get that. Yeah, I'm gonna make that one.

You go back in time, fix all your mistakes.

Oh my God, bro. But my— yeah.

Well, then maybe you wouldn't be the same person.

No, you wouldn't be.

You haven't watched Dark Matter yet, right? I have.

I love Dark Matter.

I was trying to get him to watch it. It's about superposition.

The whole idea— Oh, I started it, you know. I watched the first episode.

The idea is fun that they were trying to create something that they could go into different realities and pull that back and, you know, bring it into theirs. That was the whole idea of what the company and this and the thing, but it— I don't want to ruin anything.

No, it's incredible. It was actually so good, I'm reading the novel right now.

Dark Matter?

Yeah, it's by Blake Crouch.

He'll probably do that and fuck this world up.

It's really cool.

It's about— it's about the multiverse.

That's the fear, is that putting that kind of technology in the hands of of just some person who's smart, some guy who's smart who figures something out and all of a sudden he does something that could change the entire history of the human race.

Well, I think it was Einstein who said, 2 things are infinite, time and human stupidity.

Yeah.

Right? So, I mean, we, you know, somebody's gonna do something. You can, you can almost bet on it.

Yeah.

Yo, can I take a leak real quick?

Yeah, we can wrap this up.

Okay.

Listen, we did like 2 hours and 40 minutes. It was beautiful. It was a fun conversation, man. I really, really enjoyed it.

Thank you. I appreciate you.

You're a very wise man, and you got a lot of great, great inspirational information for people, for aspiring people. Thank you, sir.

Joe, man. Hey, Joe.

LL Cool J, ladies and gentlemen. Oh, wow. Thank you.

All right, peace and love, baby.

NCIS: New York.

Yeah, yeah. Um, that's actually— that's a— I can't believe it. That's like— it's an like poster. Yeah, yeah, let me find the real one.

They don't do photo shoots anymore.

Yeah, yeah, the real one. Um, the real one. Yeah, the trailer is crazy. The trailer is dope.

And when does it start?

It starts October 6th.

Beautiful.

NCIS: New York.

Tomorrow is the release for this show.

And yeah, so it comes out tomorrow. Yeah, just real quickly, um, Scott Caan, Jennifer Beals, you know, What a Feeling, you know, Jennifer Beals is our boss. Uh, some new kids, Jacqueline Byers, Shane, this guy Devin Druid, and we're in New York and I'm shooting all over New York and I'm really in New York. So we're shooting in Red Hook, we're shooting in Brooklyn, we're shooting in Queens, we're shooting in Manhattan, we're shooting in the Village, we're shooting all over the city and New York is like the star of the show. And it's, you know, it's gonna be a lot of fun and I think people should check it out and enjoy it. You know what I'm saying? It's gonna be dope. Fantastic. All right. Man, appreciate you, bro.

Appreciate you too. Thank you.

Bye.