Transcript of #2540 - Travis Barker New

Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

The Joe Rogan Experience.

Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night.

All day. What's up? It's good to see you, brother. What's cracking?

Good to be seen, man. Stoked to be here.

Stoked to have you, man. Yeah, what a fucking cute kid you have, dude.

Oh, thank you, thank you. He's the best, man.

So blessed. He loves you. When you're trying to put him down, he's like, no.

I think it's because I just spent We just went to Utah and I had 3 or 5 days with him, just like a lot of time with him. And he has separation anxiety from me, as I do with him. I'm like, it's the best, man.

I know people that don't have kids, it's like you don't understand the level of love that you have for them. Yeah, it's really crazy.

Or people who have kids and don't hang out with their kids like that. I just, I don't get it.

I don't get it either.

I'll spend every second I can with my kids.

Yeah, it's weird. It's weird that people— maybe it's something that happened to them when they were young or something. I don't know.

Yeah.

So what's cracking? What's the latest?

I mean, my doc came out today.

Today?

So yeah. Yep. Long time coming.

What was that experience like?

Well, the beginning of it was shortly after my book came out. So I kind of understood why people wanted a doc from me at that point. And I was honored and I was flattered and I was, you know, going down the journey of filming this doc, but it didn't really have an ending. I guess the light at the end of the tunnel during that time around 2017 was that I was sober and I survived a plane crash. But really, I was struggling with ever flying again, struggling with survivor's guilt, struggling with a lot of stuff. And at the time, the directors had mentioned to me, like, can you just look at a plane or act like you're going to go fly in a plane or walk towards a plane? I was like, fuck no, I would never. I can't even consider it. I can't even do it for you for, for like fantasy purposes for the end of this doc, you know. And I think that set in after a while where I had to acknowledge and just understand I was afraid to ever fly again. And this thing had huge power over me to the point where it, you know, dictated how I got on tour, how many days I'd travel on bus to New York, how many days I'd be on the Queen Mary 2 going to England.

How long would that take?

Oh dude, so long.

The England one's crazy.

Comfortably on the bus from here to New York, probably 6 or 7 days if you want to stop at hotels. And you know, I toured with my kids, you know, their whole life. So stopping and doing some cool stuff for them, 6, 7 days, and then a 10-day boat ride from, from New York to the Hamptons. Fuck. Crazy.

Yeah.

So yeah, my band would leave, they'd be in England in 10 hours, whatever. It would take me 3 weeks. Sucked. And then sometimes I'd be on the Queen Mary 2 and we'd have wild weather, 30-foot waves, 170 mph winds. And I was like, is this any better than being on a plane?

But the ocean freaks me out. Yeah, the big ones in particular, they freak me out.

Yeah, we got into a couple storms on one of the transatlantic crossings that— yeah, believe me, like, something was festering inside where I had this urge to, to, to try to figure out what had this power over me, which was flying.

And yeah, well, it's totally understandable.

Yeah, think about it every day after a certain point, and then Plus my kids, you know, they grew up not flying. They, they grew up associating a plane to a metal container where people die, I think, you know, unfortunately, because that's what happened, you know, to my two best friends and the two pilots who were on my plane. So yeah, it was, it was, it was hard. And then I knew the day I did it, I could show them that they could also do it, and it would probably break the the trauma and the spell that my accident caused however many years ago. And yeah, I think after my accident and that whole process, I just— everything people said I couldn't do after that, I would just check them off one by one. Oh, you're not going to run again. Oh, you're not going to play drums again. Oh, you're not going to do this again. And the one that I gave myself, the restriction I gave myself is I'd never fly again, you know? And I I broke it and I fly again.

And how many years did it take you before you got on a plane again?

20. And I even think back to that, I'm like, 20 years. I lost 20 years with this thing having power over me. But it just— it was like a monster. It kept getting bigger and bigger, and I was like, I gotta—

well, you gotta look at it like in terms of the odds. You survived a plane crash, which is— the odds of that are astronomical. The odds of you getting in another plane crash are super low. Yeah, I know nobody thinks about it like that because it's the opposite, because you've actually experienced it, so you know what it is. Like, oh my god, this is a real possibility.

Yeah, I can see that now because my son who's 22, he doesn't love to fly. And I always say, like, we just were in Utah, I took a flight, you know, he ended up driving. I was like, son, that's way more dangerous. Like, fly with me. I'm never going to put you on a plane that I think is unsafe. I'm so adamant about making sure the pilot's great, the plane's had maintenance, whatever else.

How do you check all that stuff?

Well, just if we're flying private, you're able to like, you know, really make sure it's a great plane. Sometimes even we'll fly on like someone's plane that we know. So that makes me feel better. But yeah, he just, he just drove 16 hours round trip. I was like, son, that's way more dangerous.

It is.

But yeah, that's what I tell myself, and I just got to have faith.

And yeah, what was the first plane trip like after 20 years?

It was nothing like I'd imagined it. I, I made a deal with my wife, and I just said, hey, if there's ever somewhere we can't go— because she was a champ, man, she was She was on tour buses with me. She was on whatever, just, you know, going kind of close by for trips that we'd go on. And I said, if there's ever a trip that you want us to go on that I'd need to fly, just don't tell me and tell me the night before and let's leave in the morning and I'm going to do it. So that's what it was. And the flight was awesome. Had contained none of the awful nightmares that I had fabricated in my head that it would be like. Over the years. And yeah, I think I just needed a positive experience to cancel out the last bad one that I had. Yeah, you know. Yeah, that helped a lot. And I think, I think also coming to terms with being so close to my godson, who was my assistant's son who passed away in my plane crash, and his mom and Che's mom, and just knowing that there was no hard feelings and the survivor's guilt I was feeling was my own.

And to just think about them and if the roles were reversed, would they want me to really just sit around not flying again or have this thing have power over me? Or if I was in their shoes, would I want that for them? Like, of course not.

Yeah, it's a— it's an experience that so few people ever have. I mean, I can't imagine what it's like, especially losing your friends. And yeah, the, the trauma of the actual impact, the whole thing just stuck in your head.

It's— yeah, I mean, to this day, I always like— my wife's a great flyer. My band, they're all good flying, you know. I think they can— my wife can probably envision a trip, plan a trip, envision how rad it's gonna be, how cool it's gonna be doing rock climbing or whatever. We're gonna do, all I can think about until I get there is like, am I gonna make it? Is, is this gonna— you know, I did this once and I almost died. So, you know, I had to just stop that pattern of thinking to the best of my ability. It still happens a little bit, but I still can't— I have trouble booking planes, I have trouble booking flights without thinking of those things, you know.

Yeah, I can only imagine. Well, it's awesome that you got through it and got over it and did it publicly so that other people can get inspiration from that.

Yeah.

And just realize like, hey, maybe, you know, maybe for them it was a car accident or a bus accident or whatever it is. Like, you can keep moving.

Yeah, for sure. And I, at the time, you know, AM survived with me and then he lived for another year and passed away of a drug overdose. But during that time where after I'd gotten out of the burn center and did most of my recovery, it was hard to find anyone who had been in a plane crash that was severely burnt, like, you know, and lost people. There was a lot of groups and a lot of people that like support systems for people who were grieving and lost someone in a plane crash, you know? Yeah. So it was kind of, just lonely trying to navigate, figure it out. Just recently, just like a few days ago before my doc came out, someone kept tagging me and I saw it. It's this young lady named Reva. She had a similar experience where she was in a plane crash, 50% of her body was burnt, and she lost her mom in the plane crash. I was like, this is really similar to me. And I've never met anyone that had even remotely kind of the same experience. So I flew her out and she was at my premiere and it was just, it was just cool.

And I said, You know, it's, it's just as cool for me to meet you as for you to meet me. Like, this is— I don't, I don't see anyone or meet anyone like you, you know?

Yeah.

So yeah, it's cool.

That's a very cool human experience.

Yeah.

I'll just share it with somebody and realize like you both been through something pretty horrible, but you came out on the other side and yeah, confident in each other.

I think the closest thing that I came to that was right after my accident and I was out to dinner. The guy who flew the plane and landed in the river, Remember that, Sully? Yeah, he came up and shook my hand at dinner, didn't say a word to me, but I was like, oh wow, that's awesome, you know.

That's a bad story. It's fucking crazy.

Crazy birds.

Yeah, birds took the plane down. Yeah, you would think they would have figured that out by now.

Yeah, the smallest error, you know. It's insane.

Yeah, flying's weird. But I prefer it over the boat.

Mm-hmm.

The boat thing—

and you gotta do the boat. Fuck, Queen Mary 2's wild. There's a morgue on there too because, yeah, most people that are on there are 80 years old and they're doing their one transatlantic crossing.

And so some of them die?

A lot of them. There's a lot of— I think every transatlantic crossing, because I'm on there with my crew and my assistant, my tour manager, it's like, yep. Someone passed, you know.

Wow, a morgue on the boat.

A morgue on the boat. It's a must. There's a morgue, a jail.

A jail?

Yeah, there's a jail.

How many people are on the Queen Mary II?

Thousands.

Whoa.

Yeah, I mean, if someone pops off on the boat, they got it, you know. There's, there's police. It's legit. It's legit.

Wow.

And the whole experience, they, they almost celebrate when you crossing the Titanic. Where the Titanic sits. They're like playing the movie on the ship. Oh, they're announcing it. I was like, this is, this is just different.

Yeah, fuck that.

Yeah. Oh my god. But it was honestly, I would, I would practice all day. I would practice all day. I would run miles across the ship, just on the outside of the ship. There's a lot of cool cool times on the boat as well.

Well, I'm sure, you know, you usually fly to tour, you land—

that's what I do now— and it's like, go! Where I would just train every day, play drums 4 hours a day, run 2 hours a day. By the time I got ready, you know, to where I was going, I'm like, I'm so ready for tour. It's like, whatever, whatever life throws at me, I'm good.

It's just crazy that even the Queen Mary 2 getting across in 10 days, that's got to be like way faster than the old boats used to do it, right?

I don't know, dude, you're going so slow. It doesn't even look like you're moving sometimes. You're like, are you serious? You don't see shit for 10 days.

Just water.

Mm-mm. Once in a while you'll start seeing birds when you know you're getting close to land. But other than that, nothing.

How many times have you done that trip?

7. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I think I'd rather fly for sure. I just— the idea of something going wrong in the middle of the ocean.

Yeah, I started to think about it. You're fucked.

Yeah, you're fucked.

There's no place to land a helicopter on there.

How can someone even get to you? It's the middle of the— it's thousands of miles out to sea.

Yeah, both suck to me, right? Falling out of the sky in a plane, crashing into the ocean sucks. Also being sinking in a huge ship with thousands of people fending for their lives sucks.

I've just watched too many boat videos of like them navigating insane waves that look like like a building coming at them?

Dude, I was in it. Yeah, yeah, we were in it. I think, I think we had— we lost a couple windows in the ship, and, and you're basically confined to your room, but huge, where you just see the boat go up and then you go crashing down. And you're, you know, you're 4 or 5 days into the trip, so you still got— you're in the middle of your crossing.

What does that feel like? You're on a giant boat with thousands of people.

Sucks. The internet goes out usually on the boat and you're just watching something in your room, just waiting for everything to get more calm.

How big were these waves?

I think we were in 35-foot waves.

Yeah, like this.

Yes, exact— it looks exactly like that.

Yeah, this freaks me out, man. Yeah, it's like some— when they— this is not that bad. Well, look how much the boat's moving Yeah, hurricane-force winds, it says.

Yeah, that's like choppy weather. I mean, there's positives too. We saw the Northern Lights from our cruise one time, and it was like— I've never seen it anywhere else, but it was beautiful. It's cool.

Yeah, I want to make a trip to somewhere like Norway or wherever you can see it. Yeah, this is—

oh yeah, I almost did that one time. I almost went on a— not a passenger ship, but a cargo ship because I was trying to find ways to get to Australia.

You were gonna go to Australia?

You know who told me about it? You know who else doesn't fly and was on the Queen Mary twice with me was KRS-One. Really? Yep. He was like, "I'm right there with you, Trav." And I was like, "Did something, you know, happen to you? Or why you're just confined to being on ships?" He's like, 'Nah, I just don't like flying.' So him and his family actually— he had told me about the cargo ship for some of the other places that didn't have actual cruises.

How long is a boat ride to Australia?

Dude, month. I think it's a month. I mean, I never went. I never went. The plane flight is hard enough, 20-something hours or whatever it is.

Yeah, fuck that. Fuck a month.

Mm-hmm.

It just makes you really think about the insane adventure spirit of the people that just took off on canoes and made it across the ocean.

Yeah, or the wild-ass people that do it by themselves just here to Hawaii.

Yeah, there's a lot of those people. Yeah, yeah, I know a dude who just did that. But that's— I mean, the people back when there was no internet, back when there was no newspapers or no nothing, like the Polynesian people that just got on boats, made it to Hawaii.

Insane. Yeah.

Like, did you have— what was Plan B? Yeah, what's— you know, what do you do if you're out? Where are you getting water?

How do you—

how are you staying alive?

Yeah, I think Plan B is making Plan A work. That's it.

That's it.

Plan B.

There is no plan. But how bad does life suck that you're willing to get in a boat and just hope there's some food? Yeah. When you land. And they didn't have big boats either.

Yeah.

So what the fuck were the waves like for them? Also, no weather app on the iPhone.

Yeah.

You have no idea what's coming. True. Zero idea what's waiting for you. And, you know, you're with your family and you're paddling out there.

Yeah, it's the unknown, absolute unknown.

And then how do you get back? Or do you? Or do you just say, well, this is where we are? I mean, it must have taken months and months and months. To get out there. How do they stay alive? Like, human ingenuity, like, people's ability to thrive and survive is pretty insane when pushed to the limits.

Yeah, like, people, uh, I have a friend who, who fasts half of the year. He's just drinking juice and water for 6 months, 160 days a year. He does it every year. How? He's Chef Ito. He's a chef. He's actually a chef that took a vow of silence 30 years ago. Uh, a plant-based raw chef. And for half of the year he doesn't eat. He just fasts. And it's more for like health reasons, like cleansing and, and to prevent disease, whatever else. Um, but he gets really thin. And then just goes back to his normal weight the second half of the year.

I don't know if that's good.

I don't know either, but who told you that's good? He does it every year. He might not even— it might not even be good or something. He just does these things.

Yeah, I don't think it is.

Half of the year fasting.

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Yeah, I have a hard enough time fasting a day before surgery or something, you know?

Well, it's all dependent upon whether or not your body's eating a lot of carbohydrates or not.

Yeah.

If you're on a ketogenic diet, it's a lot easier. Your body just immediately goes to burning fat, and your, your appetite is not as strong. It's not as insane a pull, the gravity of it. But I can't even imagine why you would do that. Fast for 6 months? Like, I think there's a lot of data that shows that fasting for 3 days and 5 days and things along those lines is good, causes autophagy, makes your body clean out bad cells. It's very good for people that are recovering from cancer or going through cancer. It's one of the first things a lot of doctors tell you: get on a ketogenic diet and fast, because cancer cells want glucose. That's what they want to survive, and you starve them.

Mm-hmm.

And when your body's like on a carb— you're still on a plant-based diet, so your body's eating mostly carbohydrates all the time. So you get— you have to kind of refuel all the time. It gets used to it. So when someone like you takes a day off of food, it's like the pull of the carbohydrates, like the insulin dump. It's a lot.

Yeah, I mean, I eat so much protein though. I get so much protein from lentils, like an insane amount of protein from lentils, beans, all the natural stuff, not like mock meats. Mm-hmm. So like all all my blood work that I do, my protein is top-notch.

Well, that's awesome.

Yeah, I figured it out though too. Like, there's a lot of— I mean, there's a lot of junk food meat eaters, a lot of junk food vegans. It's about dialing your shit in, you know what I mean, and figuring it out.

But even you, when you were recovering from your burns, you started eating meat.

Well, because I had doctors that were super old-school in the, in the in the hospital with me that figured out I wasn't eating because they were trying to feed me a bunch of meat and they stuck a hose down my throat. And that just sucked. So they stuck a hose down your throat to like feed you like that because I was like secretly just eating kind of like what I wanted but not eating a bunch of the meat because I told them, "Hey, I don't, I don't really eat meat." Um, so there was like a miscommunication where they just put a hose down my throat and were feeding me like that. And then During that time, my, my, one of my nurses was super cool and he started making me bags of beef jerky. So I would eat beef jerky in the hospital to get whatever protein that they wanted me to have, and then down a peanut butter blast smoothie from— what is that, is it Robux or something like that? Like one of those, and it's 3,000 calories. So I was, I was averaging— I, I basically had this— I had a 6,000 to 7,000 calorie diet.

I needed to hit every day. Wow. In order to heal, because I just had 30 surgeries in 6 months. So it was just, just trying to, to get enough.

Just, just 30 times being anesthetized for 6 months is fucking hard on your body.

Yeah, it was. I was so out of it, I didn't really know until towards the end, you know.

But, but yeah, geez, man. Did you ever try using a hyperbaric chamber?

I couldn't do it after, you know, my, my, my, my best friend that was in the accident with me, AM, he was, he was, I think 6% of his body was burnt, and he went in the hyperbaric, and I think he had a small graft on the back of his head. He was out of the hospital in a week and a half. But I had 70% of my body burnt, so there was no way I was getting out of the hospital no matter how much I did it or didn't do it. I tried doing it, and I was just in such an awful place after my, my accident where I was— I had so much trauma with like losing my, my best friends. And I was, I was definitely— my reaction was much different than, than Adam's. And I couldn't, I couldn't go in the small tube. There's, there was no way. I think at the time it reminded me too much of the inside of the plane.

Really?

Yeah. I just felt really claustrophobic, and, and I was also having a hell of a time. A.M. was sober, sober for 15 years when it happened. I was, I was a drug addict, you know, before my plane crash, and You take a person who's self-medicating, put them through 30 surgeries, give them a bunch of pain meds, and they're not working. That was me. So I was waking up every surgery screaming, swinging on doctors. Oh, just complete madman, you know, until, until they weaned me off. And by the time I got out of there, I was— I never wanted to put anything in my body again. And I had a great relationship with all my doctors and Dr. Grossman, who owns the burn center, the Grossman Burn Center. It was, yeah, it was full circle.

But that's a crazy trial by fire to get off drugs.

Yeah, that was my— that was my— that was my rehab. Wow. Mm-hmm.

Fuck, dude, that has to be— I mean, you're confined to a bed, you're stuck, they're giving you pain medications, you're going through 30 surgeries, you have 70% of your body burnt, your friends just died, and you're in this hospital by yourself.

Huge wake-up call.

What a fucking— what a wild ride your mind must have been going through.

Yeah, it's, uh, you know, I was coming home from a show, I was coming home from a gig, and yeah, who would think you'd get in, get in a plane coming home from a show and you're going to end up in a burn center for 6 months, you know, 4 people are gone and 70% of your body's burnt. Takes a minute to process, you know.

Why did they think you were never going to be able to play the drums again?

Well, there was a point where they were going to amputate my foot because they didn't think they could— they could, uh, they, they had enough skin left. To heal my foot or save it. And then because of the amount of burns I had over my body, they weren't positive I was even going to make it. So it was like once they knew I was out of critical condition and I was going to make it, they were, you know, all my nerves were messed up in my hands. Like my ulnar nerve was shot in both hands. My hands were numb. There was a lot of— it's just the unknown, you know.

I can only imagine. I think it sucks that you couldn't use the hyperbaric because it definitely accelerates healing.

Yeah, even now I go in, I go in sometimes. Now there's a hyperbaric in Los Angeles that seats 2 people, and that's perfect for me. It's just like I could stay in there for 2 hours and I'm fine.

It's just a confined space thing for you.

Yeah, I just don't love being in confined spaces.

Yeah, I don't love it, but I do it. Yeah, but it's— I've never been through what—

you know what the mindfuck is, is the, the time it takes to depressurize it. So even if you're like, okay, I'm done, they're like, 7 minutes, 8 minutes, whatever, while we depressurize it. I think that's, that's why I just feel better in the two-seater.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah.

Fuck, dude.

What—

now when you're doing this documentary, are you— does it relive all this stuff for you?

Every time. Yeah, I was so excited to come on, on this with you because I'm like, I'm gonna talk fights with Joe, I'm gonna talk whatever, cars, whatever. We could do that, man. But some of them have been— I mean, they've all been great, but I mean, to tell the truth, I think since I I'm not sure why, but maybe since I was a kid, you know, I lost my mom at a young age, like 13. Like, I could— a stranger could come up to me outside this place and be like, "Dude, I just lost my dad," and I'd probably start bawling, 'cause it's sensitive to me. It, like, triggers something to me. Right. So, yeah, it's like— talking about certain parts of the doc is like gutting me with a knife, you know?

Were you conflicted as to whether or not you wanted to go through with this and relive all that stuff?

I think I was already far past it. It was, it was, it was to the point where my doc was done in 2017. But I'm like, there's no ending. The ending sucks. I won't look at a plane. I won't do anything. And then fast forward, you know, that was their dream ending. Just stare at a fucking plane for me, right? And I'm like, nah, you know? So and then fast forward to now, 2024 or whatever it was when I flew, or 2025. It was like, yo, I fly. I fly again. My kids fly. I'm married. Like, so many things have changed. And that kind of triggered me to finish it because there was a huge light at the end of the tunnel now, right? It was like, yeah, I had this thing that had power for me for 20 years, but I fly again. And, and, and I think the other parts of the doc, like an amazing, like rough relationship with my dad when I was younger turned into something like beautiful where he's like my best friend.

That's awesome.

I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth. I grew up, you know, not— we didn't even have like running hot water in my house. So it wasn't like my dad was in the music industry and my mom was an agent. It was like, nah, I fucking didn't know how I was gonna get out of where I where I grew up, and I just played every day and I was relentless. And I joined every band and I played with everyone and I practiced 2 to 5 hours a day, you know? So just even giving some kid hope, knowing that he can do the same thing, was like a big part of my documentary that I felt like could help a lot of people.

For sure.

And then just to see me get knocked down and just have to fight you know, over and over again when fucked up things happen to me and just watching me have these things just make me stronger and stronger and unbreakable. I think that's the resilience. I think that, that, that is something for, for people to see.

Fuck yeah. Yeah, there's two great messages in there. The big one is that you can overcome that No matter how fucked up things are, if you keep going and if you keep— you stay positive, you do the right thing, you trust the process, at the end of it you'll come out better.

Yeah.

And then your— the formula for success is the same formula almost everyone has that is really awesome at something. Become obsessed, become driven, and just throw everything you have in that thing, and you come out better. And yeah, you eventually get to where you want to be, or get to where you are. It's, it's, it's an undeniable formula. Yeah, and kids need to hear that, especially kids in this world where everybody thinks everything comes quick and everybody wants a, you know, it's a TikTok mindset and everybody wants a pill to lose weight and everyone wants— it's all the process is the most important thing and just get— become— becoming obsessed and in love with the process.

Yeah, and, and so many people, I don't know, they there's not a lot of balance, right? Like, I've found more balance now, but it's like, no, you've got to be fucking obsessed and you got to be relentless and you gotta— while all your homies are out doing whatever, you should be practicing, you know what I mean? You got to be disciplined. Like, I'm so— you know, my parents were, uh, they were, they were really strict with me. Like, yo, if you want to go skateboarding, you want to go ride BMX bikes, go whatever, fuck off with your friends, you got to go play drums for 3 hours. Wow, so thankful they did that. Can you imagine if they didn't, you know? Because the one thing also in my doc is like, every time, like, my mom dies, what do I do? I just throw myself into music and drumming, like obsessed with drumming, you know? Join marching band, orchestra, jazz band, you know, like just literally eat, sleep, and breathe it. Same thing after my accident. What did I do? Day I got home, I'm outside with scabs all over my body and I'm playing the fucking drums because it's like what I know.

And also I think for kids even that don't have to hopefully endure anything I encountered, it's like it gives you confidence when you're good at something. It's like when— I don't know, anything. I think when kids bully you and whatever else, if you're good at something, you're like, fuck you. Like, I know I'm really good at football, I'm really good at jiu-jitsu, I'm really good at guitar. I feel like it just gives you confidence.

100%.

And, uh, helps you just kind of navigate through life better.

Yeah, you know, it's a vehicle for developing you as a human being in whatever it is, whether it's art, whether it's music, whether it's literature, whatever you're doing, writing, whatever you're doing, yeah, carpentry, whatever it is, just become obsessed with a thing, get better at it, and you realize that, okay, I— there's a process. I can get better at things. I'm valuable. I'm— I can do something. Yeah, I'm not just a lazy sack of shit.

The problem is the masses aren't like that, right? So like sometimes you feel lonely being like that, but yeah, I feel like— have you ever read Relentless by Tim Grover?

No.

Fuck, it's my Bible. But I just had my premiere in LA and he introduced my doc.

What is it?

It's, it's, it's a book and he basically talks about being a cooler closer, a cleaner. You know, and like cleaners are, are like people like you and I that are obsessed with shit. And you know, if we won a Grammy today, we're not gonna like party for the next week. We're like, what's next? You know, what's next? We're not— we're on vacation and we're practicing and we're not feeling bad about it. We're— it's just, it's, it's a mindset that not a lot of people have, and that must make you feel like you're doing something wrong because you're so obsessed with something.

Yeah, um, well, people will make you feel like there's something wrong with you.

Oh yeah, like, and I've— and it took me a while, honestly, after I read his book, I'm like, oh, I'm not alone. There's a bunch of fucking psychopaths like me that just— I love the fucking drums. I love to make music. I could stay in the studio for 25 hours, you know, um, and, and I don't feel burnt out, and it makes me feel alive, and it's therapeutic. And I always— I'm never content with where I'm at. I always know I have room to grow. I know there's things I can get better at. Yeah, there's— and then there's like, you know, there's people that are very content just being like, I'm not gonna get any better. I'm just— I'm cool with where I'm at. I know this is kind of peak level for me. I can never think like that.

Yeah, I mean, I I guess that's just how it has to be in order for there to be outliers. There's always going to be people that just whatever, for whatever reason, never follow through, never do what they really want to do. You know, what is that Thoreau comment, the Thoreau quote? Most men live lives of quiet desperation.

Mm-hmm.

There's a lot of that. There's a lot of people that wish, they wish they had the energy or the inspiration or the discipline or whatever it is to do the things that they want to do, to get up and just to do something that really brings them joy, really brings them excitement, really makes them feel fulfilled, really like ignites that creative fire inside of them. That where you do something and it's done, you're like, fuck yeah! There's a lot of people that never experience fuck yeah. Yeah, it's a rough life.

I feel like that's the journey, find that, you know. Yeah, or like that quote, find something you love and figure out a way to get paid for it. Like, that's the— that's great. But I think, yeah, things like that have just— especially after my accident, I'm like, yo, life is short. There's—

and it can go at any time.

I can go anytime. I've, I've learned. I've been smacked in the face over and over again, you know. Yeah. And just always feeling like— remember, there's this guy named Harry Shannon that was like very instrumental in helping me get sober, or me trying to get sober before my accident, when I got sober. And he's like, You know, I have to ask men, like, if you died right now, would you be the man you'd want people to remember you by? And I'm like, I need to get to that place, you know? That's just where I want to sit. That's where I want to live.

Yeah, well, I always tell people, live your life as if there's a documentary crew following you around and you're doing something awesome. Like, if you wanted to be inspired by somebody and watch a documentary on somebody doing some— just someone who's like, wow, that fucking dude's getting after it. Yeah, be that person in real life. The other thing I always tell people, become the person you pretend to be when you're trying to get laid.

It's so funny, or who you're pretending to be on the internet or social media.

Just actually become that person. It's so much easier. Yeah, pretending, because there's obviously someone that's like that. That's why we understand the archetype. That's why we understand like this very exceptional person. So become that person. Yeah, you could do it. Anybody could do it. We all change and grow. And that's what's, I think, really important about people like you telling your story, is that there's a lot of young people out there that don't have anybody like you in their life, and they can see it and relate to you, and under— and it gives them fuel. It can— your story and just you talking about things passionately can change a young person's life. There's a young girl or a young guy out there that can hear you, and that just— that your story makes them take a step, makes them go in the right direction, makes them make a move. There's something— we all need something from other people. We feed off of other people's energy.

Yeah, I feel that. Like, it's like when people see David Goggins for the first time and you're like, oh, I'm gonna get after it, I'm gonna get out, you know what I mean? Like, that's important. Yeah, and I didn't know— I said You know, I've watched my doc like 15, 20 times now, and I just— I even watched it the other day at the premiere, and I'm like holding back tears, and I'm like, fuck, it's so heavy, you know. But just the reaction from everyone is like, yo, that changed my life. Like, I can't look at life the same. And I'm like, if anything, that's— yeah, I love that.

Yeah, you know, we all need that.

I'd hate to put out Also, it's not like I made my own documentary, but I was honored and flattered someone wanted to do this documentary with me. But like, hate to put out something that doesn't help people, right? You know, right? Is this water right here?

Yeah. Yeah, there's a glass right in front of you. There you go.

I ran— what is it called? Lake Austin? Uh-huh.

Lady Bird.

I ran it today.

Yeah, it's dope.

So nice, isn't it?

Beautiful.

So beautiful.

This is such a great place.

If I lived here, I would be out there every day, and tons of people running. I know.

So there's a lot of healthy people in this town.

And I didn't— my goal was to just wake up and walk. I went to like this good espresso spot that has like cortados, had a coffee, and then I have like long shorts on, like sweat shorts, cutoff sweats, Suicidal Tendencies sweats and high socks and just regular shoes. And where I come from, where I grew up, was called the Inland Empire. Like, and I'm like, oh my God, I look so Inland Empire, right? Totally. No shirt, long-ass sweats, Suicidal Tendencies. People are like, he's not from here, you know? But I'm like, hey, I'm here with you guys.

Yeah, but you blend right in. Everybody blends in here. This is a very blend-in town.

I love Austin.

It's great.

Cool.

Yeah, but that lake is a really fun spot. And again, very inspirational too, because there's a lot of people getting after it. Yeah, a lot of people that look good. They look healthy.

Yeah, it was like, uh, I don't know, honestly, I was surprised from the moment I touched down yesterday, just walking like my wife and Rocky, we just went walking and there was— everyone was running even yesterday. And then today it was like similar to when that feeling where you in LA where you have like those boot camps or whatever, but there's no organized boot camp. There's just people out there getting after it. Yeah, I love, I love being around that.

Well, this is a very fit town. I mean, it's become the jiu-jitsu hub of the country.

Really?

Yeah, it's kind of crazy. And it all happened during the pandemic. You know, there's a lot of things that changed about this place because people got sick of whatever the restrictions were for where they lived, whether it was New York or LA, and they came here. And a lot— well, it started out with Gordon Ryan. Gordon Ryan, John Donahue, who are the— like, Gordon's the greatest jiu-jitsu athlete of all time, and he moved here. And John Donahue is the greatest coach of all time, and he moved here. And they set up shop, and then all the guys they train with came here. And then a ton of other people just moved here and started up schools too. So there's a a ton of jiu-jitsu going on here, a ton of MMA going on here. There's gyms everywhere, all these functional fitness gyms. It's like, it's like a feeling here. There's an energy of people that want to do something, that really want— they want to be active, they want to be excited about something, they want to make something happen. And I think a lot of that was accentuated by the fact that this town became like a symbol of change for them.

Like, wherever the fuck I used to live before, now I'm gonna move to this new thing and I'm gonna really take advantage of the fact that this is different, that this place is different. This is my new place. This is my new feeling of my life. It's a new environment. And then all these other people that moved here have this similar desire to like excel and, and make their life more exciting. And just, it's an awesome place.

Yeah, I feel that. I think you usually see it in New York or LA, but you see it here. Yeah, it's like everyone's in shape, or it's like— feels like it's ahead. Mm-hmm. You know, there's energy here.

Yeah, and there's energy here because of the people that moved here. You know, when we opened up the comedy club, I mean, we, we all came here because there was nowhere we could perform in LA. LA was locked down for comedy. And just like you playing the drums and doing music, comedians are addicted. They're addicted to performing, they're addicted to writing, they're addicted to like And a lot of these guys were young people where their career just was shut off. And, you know, they're in their 20s and they're pursuing their dream and they're barely getting by. They're making no fucking money, but they're in Hollywood. They're at the Comedy Store. And also, the Comedy Store's closed for a year and a half. It was fucking nuts. And so when we came out here, you know, it started off, it was Ron White and then me and Tony Hinchcliffe, and then it was like We lit the fire and good, good, come on. And then next thing you know it, there's like 20 world-class comedians moved to Austin and we set up the club. And then now there's 5 clubs on my street, on the street where my club is, there's 5 other clubs there.

It's crazy. There's so many comics here and it's just exploding with creativity and enthusiasm and momentum. There's like so much momentum. Cam Patterson, who came out of here, just got SNL. You know, Shane Gillis obviously just became like the biggest comic in the in the world, and it's all— Kill Tony's the biggest live comedy show in the world. That's out of my club.

So wild.

It's all like—

Oh, that's out of your club?

Yeah, every Monday it's out of my club.

I get all the clippings from it all the time, and I'm like, he's so funny. Also, Ron— I saw, I saw Ron White and Shane Gillis, uh, at the Netflix Sucks. Oh, right, the Hollywood Bowl. Yeah, so good.

Yeah, I worked with Ron last night, and he's great. He's the best.

Yeah, Shane Gillis is my favorite, obviously. So he's so funny.

He's the best.

He doesn't even have to say anything, just his face.

Well, he's just a great guy. Like, you just love— you, when you're around him, you're having fun. Yeah, he's just a big— he's a big smile.

Yeah, you know, I could imagine. Yeah, so they were like, hey, do you want to go meet him before the thing? I'm like, no, no, I'm okay. I just want to— I just want to watch the show.

Like, yeah, I'm sure he'd love to meet you. Yeah, it's just having a place where a bunch of like-minded people are trying to do the same thing is so important. And if you don't have that in your life, that's what I was talking about, like your story and your documentary and just hearing you talk about stuff is so important for people because we all need other people that are doing a similar thing, or at least doing a thing that we wish we were doing, that it gives us— and it might not be for them, it might not be playing the drums, it might be painting, it might be something else, but it's like, oh, that guy has that feeling about drums the way I have this feeling about I have this feeling about playing guitar, or I have this feeling about drawing pictures, whatever the fuck it is. Yeah, you need to know that this feeling that you have inside of you and wanting to do something special is not unique. There's other people that have it. You just have to find them. Yeah, to find those people. And if they're not around you, at least now we have this amazing ability to connect with these people through the internet.

It's, it's incredible.

Yeah, it's like they say, like, you are who you— you're the closest 5 people that are around you.

Yep.

It's like the same thing.

Completely true. Completely true.

Yeah, I feel that too. And they don't have to be doing exactly what you're doing. Uh, yeah, I'm like, in our old neighborhood where— because were you on Khalifa?

Yes.

Okay, so I'm on Khalifa, you know. I moved my studio. You literally left. Yeah, like COVID hit, you left, and I moved in over there.

Yeah, I know, I heard.

So, um, I wonder how close we were too.

Well, I think we were real close.

Really?

I think we were right down the street from each other.

So, uh, Even just being in that neighborhood, like, I run a lot in there, right? And one day I was running, so it was so weird. I think I saw your pod and Jean-Jacques was on it, right? Jean-Jacques Machado. And, um, and then the— maybe 2 days later, I'm at, uh, I'm, I'm at Blue Bottle grabbing a coffee, and him and all his boys from his, his gym crew up there, like, hey, come train, come train. And I'm like, okay. And then the next day I'm running and I don't even know where his spot is. And I'm running, and then there's his dojo, like, you know, his gym. Mm-hmm. And, and I just walked in and started training. But being around him and like his story, like being around people who have inspiring stories and motivating and, and are, are productive and are hungry, and you know, yeah, it's the biggest, the biggest difference in the world.

John Jock is an awesome soul. He's an awesome guy.

What a great guy.

Yeah, I started training with him in 1998. Yeah, wow.

Yeah, I was training a lot and then was also running a bunch and I tweaked my leg. And I kind of learned, I think, like, me running all the time, it wasn't the best for jiu-jitsu.

No, you need some strength training.

Yeah, so now, now it's a good balance.

But, um, what do you do for strength training?

It's tricky. I used to just work out. If I was here, I'd find someone I'd work out with them, or have friends I'd work out with, or trainers back home. But a lot of people see me and they're like, bro, let's get— let's get you jacked. Well, that's not— that's not functional for me. Not functional for the trials. I need to be fucking fast.

Yes.

And I need to be fluid. And right, yeah, so a lot of people— I figured out after years and years and years of of working out with different people, what's best for me is, is fast twitch and lots of reps, lots of sprints, quick explosive energy. I love boxing, love jump roping. And then a few days is more like slow strength training, but only followed by like— I have to finish with something fast, whether it's 10 rounds on the bag or whatever else, or I literally— I remember there was a tour and I was working out with someone and, um, we hadn't yet figured it out. We work out still together and we do, we do something called tempo training. So whatever music is on, you're doing it to the tempo, you're doing it for the length of the song. So it's much longer than you would normally do something, and it's much quicker than you normally do something. But that's how I play the drums, and that's gonna that's going to help me once I go back to what I do and it's functional for what I do.

I like that.

But when I wasn't doing that and I was just throwing around heavy weights and I was putting on muscle, I was— I got behind a kit and I remember I hadn't really tested it out and it was the worst feeling in the world. I was so tight. I was so slow. I didn't look like this, but I felt like this. You know, it was terrible. I was like, oh my gosh, this isn't me. I need to be, you know, right? Right. And my goal, my only goal is to be able to think something and do it, execute, uh, stamina-wise, endurance-wise, and skill-wise. So I'm always practicing and my stamina is always on point.

So drumming is like sprinting with your arms. Yeah, I mean, you're just like long-term fast running with your arms.

Yeah, it's like volume punches.

Like all drummers have a similar build. They're all like wiry and strong and have like crazy endurance with their arms. Yeah, what you could do with your arms is probably bananas. I bet you could hit a fucking speed bag all day long.

I could do battle ropes. I love speed bags. Oh yeah, I have one at the gym. Yeah, and it's all, it's all, yeah, tempo. You have to find the rhythm. If the rhythm's not right, you can't keep the bag going, you know. Battle ropes. Oh yeah, for 30, 40 minutes without stopping.

That's insane.

Yeah, just fine.

It's like the perfect thing for drumming, I would imagine. It's such a similar motion.

Yeah, you know, but it's so different than like the average person that wants to work out. Like, I don't get to do that, you know, even though it's cool or you look cool, you put on certain amount of muscle, whatever.

I—

it's just, I can't do it.

Well, it could get in your way for sure. I mean, I think a a drummer wants to be built like a welterweight boxer. Mm-hmm. You know, you, you want to be like lean and wiry and just have crazy endurance. And if you just get an intelligent trainer, they understand what you're trying to achieve, they could achieve both goals. Like, you can strengthen things so that you don't get injured in jiu-jitsu if you want to do jiu-jitsu, but not overwhelm you with mass. Yeah, you know.

Yeah, figure it out. Like, there's— yeah, there's definitely certain exercises I could do once I start training jiu-jitsu again to make sure my legs are cool.

Well, a lot of like really elite jiu-jitsu guys are not bulky at all. There's a lot of like really thin guys that are like very, very high level, especially because there's weight classes. And you know, what's really important is technique.

You know, it's tricky is the hands too, like not, not crushing my hand and making sure I'm always like gripping properly and not leaving my fingers out.

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Yeah. No, he's always so good about that.

It's like, well, you just have— if you're rolling and stuff, you just have to make sure you're not rolling with anybody that's spastic. Anybody that's just like, that doesn't have controlled energy, you know. Yeah, that's the great thing about rolling with black belts. Like, if I'm rolling with a black belt, it's very controlled. Like, we both know what we're doing, so everyone's like moving in a very controlled pace. You very rarely get injured. When you get injured is when you're rolling with like some young blue belt who's on steroids, he's fucking jacked out of his mind, trying to choke you out, and he's just amped. Yeah, I want to choke out Travis Barker.

Dude, I've been that. I was at a UFC gym, I forget where I was, I was somewhere on tour, and he's like, okay, let's spar a little bit. We're supposed to be doing light sparring, whatever, just kickboxing, boxing, and he does a spinning back fist. Oh, jeez. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I have a show in 45 minutes, man, like, chill, you know?

You can't be getting concussed 45 minutes before.

But I do love it.

Spinning back fist is very hard to control too.

Yeah.

Once you start that rotation and that spin, that arm going around.

I was, I was almost done, though. Yeah, my son was there. He's like, oh, I was like, yeah, it probably wasn't— that wasn't good. But yeah, but training is— yeah, it's, it's so awesome.

Um, it's great for getting rid of aggression too. Like, it just cleans your mind up and makes you relaxed for sure.

And it humbles you, I think. Oh yeah, I feel like everyone should train, or at least do it at some point in their life, because it humbles you. And yeah, I feel like there'll be a lot less like hotheads or testosterone out there, you know what I mean?

100%. Jiu-jitsu people are some of the most laid-back and chill people that can kill you that you'll ever meet.

Yeah, totally.

Most of them are like very easygoing, really kind, and very relaxed.

And I feel like it's something you can do even as you age.

Oh, 100%. Yeah, as long as you're training with good, smart people. Yeah, you know, that's the thing. You got to pick your training partners wisely because that's what gets you injured, is spastics. People that freak out. And you know, I used to be a spastic. I get it. You know, when I was young, when I was first starting out, I was very aggressive and trying to just, just force everything. You do everything fast. And then, but then one day you'll train with someone like Jean-Jacques, and Jean-Jacques just, he never explodes. He's never out of balance. He's never out of position. Everything's just smooth and effortless. And he's talking to you like, while he's rolling, Joe Hogan, look out for your arm, Joe Hogan. He's like He's having fun. Yeah, and it's— that's— it's an art. It really is, especially when it's done well, like the way Jean-Jacques can do it. It's like, it is an art. It's beautiful to watch. You watch someone with a beautiful guard pass and then nail a triangle, and it's like, oh my god, it's beautiful.

Yeah, and I think I'd done it in the past, and it was— it was a— it was a lot of fun, and it was almost like chess up here. Mm-hmm. But I didn't feel like it was much of a workout, whereas with him it's like 2 hours. He's making it like a show. There's no stopping for long periods of time, and we're just dripping sweat. Mm-hmm. And I weigh a buck 50 and he's whatever, 200, you know. Yeah, he's just— yeah, it is a workout and it's just challenging and you're engaged the whole time and Yeah, it just feels good.

And you— when then if you watch fights, you really appreciate what's going on because you've tried to do that and you know, like, yeah, because a lot of people get very delusional when they watch fights. Like, oh, I'll fuck these guys up. Like, yeah, most men have a very delusional understanding of or belief in their ability to fight. So doing it gives you like, oh, this is fucking really hard. And then you watch people at an elite level, you know, you watch Sugar Sean O'Malley or someone like that, and you're like, oh fuck, that's hard to do what he just did. That's crazy. Yeah, it gives you a real true appreciation of the amount of effort and the amount of discipline and intensity that this guy's put in over years and years and years to achieve this level where you're watching something spectacular in front of 15,000 people and millions of people on television.

Dude, I couldn't imagine. Yeah, I was with Dom one time, me and Dom Cruise, he was just like, "Try to sleep me." And I'm like, "Okay." And you know how fast he is and how like I swing and he's over here, you know? It was like, oh, it was so humiliating. And then he just was just grappling me and not letting me move. And he's like, "Don't ever, when you're in a fight, be like, 'Do something, do something.' This is what it feels like." You know? He was just keeping me there and I'm like, Oh, I have much more respect for just— yeah, when someone's even just holding someone against the fence, that, that feels awful. Yeah, no, it drains you. It drained me. Yeah, and then to start a fresh round where I'm trying to sleep him was— it was impossible. It was impossible to begin with, but it was even more impossible, you know.

His footwork is ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And he really invented a lot of his footwork. Like, his footwork is very— Dominick Cruz, when he was the champion, when he was the bantamweight champion, had some of the most elusive footwork that anybody had ever seen before. It was so unique and so different, and you couldn't get anybody to emulate it in training. 'Cause Dom's system, he pretty much developed on his own. And there's a lot of videos of him training it, a lot of videos of him moving, and it's so unusual that you see guys in front of him, and they're just mesmerized. Because it's step, step here, step, step there, pop, step, step here, kick, step, step here, elbow. And you're like, fuck, where is he? Yeah, you know, and that was such a smart— because he's such an intelligent guy, which is why he's such a great, like, MMA analyst.

Yeah, he's so good, so smart.

And he just really figured out, like, okay, I don't have the most power, I'm not the strongest guy, I'm not the biggest guy. What What can I have? What can I develop that gives me an advantage over everybody? Well, I can be like the most elusive, the most slick-moving guy that's ever existed.

And I feel like a lot of people in his division adopted it from him.

Oh, for sure.

Figured it out, you know?

Well, they had to adapt.

Yeah.

You know, when that guy's, you know, dominating people and you can't do anything about it— I mean, he humiliated a lot of people. Yeah. He was in front of them, and they developed this style that was fine if someone's standing right in front of you and engaging with you, like, right in front of you and there to be hit and taking a shot and then giving one back. Don was doing none of that. He's like, whoop, here, I'm over here, boop. He was like, you know, very much like Lomachenko did in boxing. You're just doing weird shit that people hadn't seen before. And really kind of, again, developed it on his own. If you look at like his— the camp that he came out of in San Diego, there wasn't other guys doing it like that. It was really just him. Yeah, very, very unique guy. But I love that there's styles that sort of rise, that exist, that someone just sort of creates. They just realize, like, "What do I have physically as my tools, and how can I implement these tools in a way that's different than anything that these guys have seen before?" Yeah, 'cause there was nothing like him.

No.

There was nothing.

But then you see guys that came up after him, guys like T.J. Dillashaw, who was also awesome with footwork, and, you know, a lot of his footwork work, Guaranty was inspired by watching Dominic. And a lot of these other guys that are— these Corey Sanhagen guys that are constantly switching stances, same thing. They all— this, the style developed out of that because before Dominic Cruz, there really was no one who had footwork like that, not even close.

Mm-hmm.

And so when you see TJ, you know, like, who in my opinion was one of the greatest bantamweights of all time, like, when he beat Hennen Barão, like, one of which was— Hennen Barão at the time was thought to be if not the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world, at least number 2 behind Jose Aldo, and he was undefeated. And TJ just styled on him. I mean, it was— and he went out there like he was sparring. It wasn't even like he was fighting for the world title. He went out there like super loose and focused and relaxed and just switching stances and cutting angles and hitting him with shots and moving to the left and hitting him with a head kick to the right, like, fuck.

Yeah, he put on a show that fight.

One of the greatest title-winning performances in the history of the sport, for sure.

I wish, I wish he didn't, you know, struggle with so many injuries. Yeah, and everything, because he was—

it's a tragedy.

Phenomenal.

It is a tragedy. I mean, he has significant shoulder injuries, like to the point where I think he's gonna have to get artificial shoulders. As he had no supraspinatus on both arms, that was just completely ripped off, and he would just like strengthen all the other muscles and just deal with it. And then it would just pop out. You know, when he fought Aljamain Sterling, he told the referee in the green room, he said, my shoulder's gonna pop out, but it's okay, I'll put it back, let me keep fighting. Imagine that, you're going to fight Aljamain Sterling for the world title, who's a beast and one of the best grapplers ever, and you're thinking, I have to deal with the fact that my shoulder is going to definitely get dislocated in this fight. 'Cause it just doesn't stay.

Yeah.

It's just this loose fucking thing that just pops out all the time. And he's trying to fight. And just all will and discipline and intensity.

Wait, that was Dom's shoulder too, right? Towards the end?

Dom had a bunch of injuries. I mean, he had the ACLs and— Yeah, he had ACLs. The shoulder was the last one. That was the last straw. His last shoulder surgery. Yeah, I mean, look, it's— the human body is not designed to be punched and kicked. And to be grappled and strangled and twisted and armbarred, it's like at a certain point in time it just gives out. Yeah, that's just how it is.

Yep.

And it sucks because, you know, some of these guys have so much more to give in their mind and their body just fails them after a certain point in time. And you see that with some of these older guys. It's like they've just had a bunch of knee surgeries and maybe a back surgery and this and that, and then they're a shadow of themselves inside the octagon.

Yeah, sometimes it's sad to watch, you know, but I also understand the feeling of that's all you know and you just want to keep fighting.

Well, it's also they have this insane belief in themselves and they always think that it's what got them there also, you know, that's how they became a champion in the first place. Like people telling you you'll never play the drums, you're never gonna run, you're never gonna— and you're like, I'll show you. And that's how they all are. They're all like, I'll show you. Like, it's over, you got to hang it up. 'it's over, your time is gone.' Like, no, no, no, I got one more in me. Yeah, I got, I got 3 or 4 more fights in me. I'm gonna fight until I'm 41 or whatever it is.

That would be so hard. I think of Dustin and I think of like even his fight against Islam.

Mm-hmm.

And his fight against, uh, what's the French fighter?

Benoît Saint-Denis.

Yeah. Yeah, dog, I couldn't tell myself I need to hang up. The gloves, if I fought like that in those fights, he's a fucking beast.

Yeah, he's a beast.

Like, Dustin to me isn't— he doesn't look like he's at the end of his career. He's still very competitive. And that was— I think that was the best fight against Islam anyone's fought, you know.

It was a very good fight. He's elite. I mean, Dustin's an elite fighter.

So I could see being Dustin and struggling with like, ah, this is hard for me to stop fighting because you're that fucking good.

Well, Dustin, the physical issues aren't even really like joints and neck, and it's his head.

Mm-hmm.

He's had too many brain injuries, and that's— he's got some sort of a separation between the two halves of his brain. There's like some issue with the center of his brain.

I don't even know about that.

Yeah, he's talked about it pretty openly. But I mean, you know, he had that, that incident where he got drunk and got crazy.

That—

but that's a lot of that is CTE, I guarantee. And, you know, he's, he's doing a lot of things to try to mitigate that, and he's seeking help. And really, there are some ways that you can recover, at least in some way, and improve on what you're doing. But I think for him, it's best to not be fighting anymore. You know, it's just at a certain point in time, you're only gonna accumulate more damage, and then whatever your dealing with now is just gonna get worse, and then maybe you can't recover from it.

True.

And, you know, he's got a family, and he's in this situation where it's like, I want to be there for my family. I don't want to be this guy that's like completely compromised when I'm 50, 60 years old, where I can't walk anymore and someone's got to take me around or hold my hand. Yeah, because there are guys like that, you know, especially like older boxers. You run into some old boxers, and it's like, it's really sad, man. Yeah, you know, you see guys like Tommy Hearns talking, it was like not much older than me, and you see him talking and moving around, you're like, fuck, like, he paid a price. Yeah, these guys pay a price. It's a rough way to make a living.

Yeah, the fight game is crazy.

It's the craziest.

I'm happy my drums don't hit me back, straight up, you know. I'm like, yeah.

It's also, you can do what you do for a long time. I mean, you can play drums for a long time. When you're fighting, your peak is such a small window of life, and it's just, there's so much that you have to pour into it, and then eventually you have to realize that that window's closed and you have to move on, even though you're still young and you still have all this life. And look at a guy like Dustin, he looks fucking great. You know, he looks great. He sounds great when you talk to him. He seems like he's all there physically. He looks like he's never been better, but the window's closed. You know, there's, there's these young guys coming up and they don't have the injuries that you have. They don't have the problems that you have. They don't have the wear and tear, and, and they're gonna get to you before you get to them. And maybe they wouldn't have gotten to you 5 years ago or 6 years ago, but they can now. And it's just not there anymore. And it's hard for guys to accept because their entire identity is based on this one thing that's very fleeting.

So that's how— that would be the most difficult thing in the world.

Yeah, but the glory that they experience is above and beyond anything we're ever gonna know.

I heard someone talking about it, um, and they, they were saying, imagine being a cage fighter and it's all you've prepared for for the last 20 years, to be locked in a cage in your underwear to scrap with someone and have the most grueling fight camps, and then you're just— we're just gonna take you out of it and you can't do that anymore. Yeah, it's like, that's all you've known, you know.

It's, it's a—

they experienced a different life. Mm-hmm. Than, than us, you know.

Their highs are way higher.

Yeah, and highest of highs, lowest of lows.

The rest of the life is kind of gray and dull in comparison to the bright lights I mean, it's like Conor keeps trying to come back. It's like all these guys, it's like that thing. Like, Conor's worth like half a billion dollars. He doesn't have to do anything anymore if he doesn't want to. Yeah, but he still has this thing inside of him where he wants to reclaim that lost glory.

Whatever the discipline that Khabib had where he could just— he completely walked out on top, right? Yeah, on top. That, that's beautiful. And, and if everyone could have the the discipline to do it like that, that, you know.

Yeah, that's rare. That guy's got Mount Everest discipline. It's like a different kind of discipline. And he's—

why is one of the greatest?

Yeah, one of the greatest of all time. And that's why, you know, what's interesting is he stayed training. He's been training ever since he retired, and he says he's much better now than when he retired.

Wow. Could you imagine?

Isn't it crazy? He says he watches his old fights and he sees mistakes that he made and how he would do it differently now. How he does things differently in training now. And I know guys who train with him and they say he fucking mauls people. He's mauling these, like, you know, top 10 UFC contenders, and he gets in with them, they can't hold on to him. He's fucking— he's an animal.

I believe it.

And he's not even thinking about fighting again. But he's an awesome coach now too. And having a guy like that in your corner, imagine the inspiration that a young fighter gets having Khabib Nurmagomedov coach them. Like, you're being coached by one of the most ruthless, disciplined guys that's ever competed in the sport. Retired undefeated, one of the rare ones. And he's your coach, and you want to make him happy, you want to make him proud.

Yeah, having his guidance.

Yeah. Well, he's gonna be in Islam's corner this weekend. I'm leaving tomorrow.

I can't wait.

It's gonna be sick. Wait, that's a good fight. Very, very interesting fight because Ian Machado Garry is a very difficult guy to get a hold of. Very tall and long. Yeah, fast as fuck.

Good striker.

Very smart. Knows how to win. Knows how to adapt and change.

Islam's striking is fierce too, though.

Oh yeah. Yeah, it's a lot better than— yeah, it used to be, and at like the same level as all the other guys in the sport, which is really crazy because his grappling is above and beyond. So it's like you're dealing with a guy who— there's no picnic on the feet. He'll fuck you up on the feet. I mean, he knocked out Volkanovski with a head kick. He's elite on the feet. And then when it comes to the ground, there's no one like him. There's no one like him in the division, in any division. He's— he is a crusher. And he just crushes people.

Yeah, he's nasty.

I mean, think about how good Charles Oliveira is, one of the greatest submission artists of all time. Islam got him down to the ground and just smushed him, just crushed him quickly, just made him tap quick.

Yeah, I thought that fight was gonna be more competitive.

Everybody did. Yeah, yeah, but that's how good Islam is, you know? And he's also a guy that, like, you cannot train harder than him. Him. It's not humanly possible. So he goes into every event knowing it is impossible for someone to train harder than him. It's impossible for someone to have tougher people in camp than he has. I mean, those guys out of Dagestan are on a completely different level. I mean, there is an entire room filled with absolute savages, and they're just getting after it every day. Full discipline. No one drinks, no one parties, no one does everything. They pray 5 times a day. They're super religious and they're just driven. Yeah. And, you know, he comes into that fight with that kind of confidence because of that. It's gonna be a fun weekend.

Yeah.

That main event is very tricky because Ian can move, man. He's a really slick guy, really tall, and he's also very fast and long. So he's gonna have a significant height and reach advantage. He's gonna be moving all over the place, landing, and if Islam is not careful in how he engages, he could get caught. And you can only get caught by a guy like Ian a couple of times, if at all, you know, yeah, in trouble. So it should be very interesting. Those are the kind of fights I love that are a puzzle.

Yeah, it's like styles make fights. Oh yeah, that one, that's like a great example. Yes.

And it's also— Ian has this insane confidence. He has this insane belief that he's special, that, you know, this is his destiny. And that, you know, I mean, he's— it looks like that at every weigh-in. It looks like that at every stare-down. It looks like that at every press conference. Like, this is his destiny. He really believes that, which is another huge thing that a fighter has to have, like almost a delusional belief in themselves.

Yeah, I saw an interview where he was because he actually said he believes in the balance with his family, with, with every part of his life, where most fighters will only focus on fighting during the 8 to 10 weeks they're fighting or they're training. And he's like, no, I actually need everything to be in order to make this one thing go great. So I believe in more balance than imbalance? I think it's interesting.

Depends entirely on the person and also depends entirely on what does your family look like, you know? What is the relationship with your wife and your children like? Is it harmonious? And is it— do you get love from it and strength and inspiration? Or is there chaos? Is there like arguing all the time and bickering and pettiness and bullshit?

And like the Mark Carr fight, the movie, yeah, like a fighting machine. Oh my God, when she's fighting, when she's squabbling with them right before he goes out there fight, I was like, ah, I was like, I could feel for him. Oh dude, I've seen that before.

I've seen that with multiple fighters, multiple. I know one guy who, during the night before the fight, his girlfriend at the time would always start fights with him, like huge fights, because she didn't like that this one thing, fighting, was more important to him than her. She wanted to be the entire focus of his attention, and where there was this thing that was taking away— she was a complete narcissist— this thing that was taking away from his attention to her, she would sabotage it. So she would start fights, she would storm out of the hotel room, slam the door, and just be gone, shut her phone off. And here he is, evil, freaking out. He's got a fight for the world title in, you know, whatever, 20 hours. Yeah, he's, he's dealing with this nonsense.

It's the worst. I can't imagine.

Well, I think that's why some guys, they'd rather take that isolated approach. They just— they would rather just do the Spartan thing and just be alone in camp and sleep on a cot and wake up in the morning and run and just live this, like, very hard 6 to 8 week life.

I feel that part. Like, I can't even— even leading up to shows, I can't be too comfortable. Really? Oh no. Like, I can't get a massage before I go play or be chilling in my hotel room. I need to be uncomfortable. Really? Yeah.

Why is that?

I don't know. It's just, that's all I've known too, you know. It's like that. I don't know, I came up like lugging my own gear around, setting up my drums, and then waiting for the show to start. And I don't— I can't just watch a movie before I play or wake up from a nap. It's just, it's just not in me. I'm up jump roping, I'm up like watching fights, I'm up up, going for a run, practicing, learning something new. That's the best headspace for me to be in.

Well, I would imagine with the difference between drumming and I think any other kind of musical instrument is that it's so physical. It's so physical that it's like a workout. Like, you, you have to be in shape to drum. You have to.

Yeah, I can't feel sluggish. Like, right, I don't know, I'm, I'm a fucking weirdo though. I'm like worried about like what I eat, like Do I have enough energy? Have I— you know what I mean? Yeah, and just jump roping right before I play.

Dialing it in, right? And knowing what you need because of the experiences that you've had. You've had so many experiences, so many performances that you can just dial it in. I think that in that way it's very similar to fighting, is that every fighter has to have their own approach, and Ian's approach is to have his family with him all the time and Islam Makhachev's approach is very different. It's like Spartan, all those guys together. You eat and train with the guys, just separate yourself from everything.

Yeah, it's super personal.

Yeah, it's got to be personal because everybody's got a different— everyone has a different personality, different mindset, different, different triggers, different things that fuck with them, different things that calm them down, you know.

Yeah, also I have all these weird hard, whatever, where I'm jump roping, running, practicing for hours before I go on stage. And then there's the times where everything— I get thrown a curveball and I get to the venue 5 minutes before and I can go up and do it like, like no problem because I think I've done all this other preparation, right? It's like I also know it works without it.

Yeah, right. You're always ready. Stay ready so you're always ready.

Yes, I live by that.

Yeah.

Stay ready so you don't have to get ready. Yeah, that's, that's the goal.

Yeah, well, fighters have that too, because the fighters that get like really out of shape in between fights, they're the ones that really struggle.

Because Paddy, yeah, you see him blow up like a week later, it's like, yeah, but the same person.

Paddy, it's a little deceptive.

Really?

Paddy gets fat, but he doesn't get out of shape. Mm-hmm. Paddy's got incredible endurance. And an insane work ethic, but he also really loves to live and live life, you know. So have a few beers, eat some pizza, get fat, but he still could go to the gym and probably outwork everybody. Like, it's— there's no way you're in the kind of shape that that guy's in if you're not training all the time. So even when he gets fat, it's just eating. Yeah, just eating piles of food. I'm sure if you if— I'm sure when you see him with his big moon face, if he got to the gym and worked out, you'd be like, fuck, yeah, still a beast. Yeah, it's not like he's gonna be exhausted and lying on his back after one round on the bag. No, like, he's— it's only fat. Yeah, you know, and then he's got the— and then there's also this part of the discipline of the weight cut is like this locking in and focusing where you're measuring all your food, and like, there's there's a certain like shift in the mindset that takes place when he goes from being fat to ripped.

And he goes from being fat to ripped. Yeah, I mean, he does it better than anybody because everyone looks at him like, ah, that guy's never gonna make weight. And then he shows up at the weigh-ins shredded, chiseled.

Yeah, I don't think I see anyone with as big of a transformation.

No, no, his is beyond. And people love him for it too. That's also part of the craziness of it. They celebrate it because I mean, so silly.

Yeah, he's so likable. Yeah, he's, he's— yeah, he's great.

So fucking skillful too. What he did to Benoit Saint-Denis was nuts.

That— and it's— Gachi fight was like— oh yeah, that was one of the best fights I've seen in person.

It was an awesome—

I was like, what the fuck just happened?

You know, well, you see what Gachi just did to Ilia Topuria, and now you realize how fucking tough Paddy is. Yeah, Paddy's tough. He's, he's silly and he's playful and he's a lot of fun and everybody loves him and he's all likable and he's dancing around, but yeah, when it gets down to it, that motherfucker is tough as nails.

Yeah, scary how quick that was. Yeah, and Gaethje's just— fuck, thank God for him. Yeah, he's so— I was so happy.

Me too. It was incredible. And seeing him do that in the White House, on the lawn of the White House, and win the world title when everybody thought he was like a 6-to-1 underdog on some sportsbooks, which is nuts. I thought that was very disrespectful.

I love this interview.

It was crazy.

Yeah, and when he was like, I couldn't, I couldn't let him fucking win just based on what I— how bad he was gonna disrespect me after he beat me. Mm-hmm. The shit he was gonna say on the mic, whatever. I was like, nah, it wasn't gonna happen. I love that. I love that.

Sometimes you fuck with a guy's head so much that you give him fuel to recover and survive when he might not be able to ordinarily. But the thing about Gaethje is he has zero quit in him. You can't get him to quit. He's never going to quit. It's like you could break his body down like Max Holloway did and knock him unconscious, and there's nothing he can do about that. You get knocked unconscious, you're knocked unconscious. It's just physical.

I've never seen— I've never seen Gaethje like that, you know, in the Max fight. That was— no, and I love Max, and I just— yeah, that was like shocking.

Yeah, it was pretty crazy. It was pretty crazy. It was— that was— and then to have him go from that to become the world champion just a year and a half, 2 years later, whatever it was, amazing.

Sick story.

Yeah, it's a great sport, man. I mean, there's nothing like it in terms of like the true intensity and the emotions and the excitement. There's nothing like it. I think the last time I saw you was at a UFC at the Apex. I think that's the last time we ran into each other.

Ngannou and Stipe fought.

Was that what it was?

Mm-hmm.

Wow, wasn't that crazy?

Oh, being in that small venue when that happened was like—

small venue, no audience. There was probably like maybe 50 people in the whole room, maybe 100 in the whole room.

You could hear a needle drop when it happened. I think that's the first fight I took my wife to, and she was like, what? Like, yeah, yeah.

Oh, that was a devastating fight too. And there was also— you have a heavyweight fight in the small octagon. So the Apex, for people that don't know, has an octagon that I think is 30 or 40% smaller.

Damn, is it that much smaller?

Yeah. How much smaller is— let's put that into perplexity, ask it— how much smaller is the UFC Apex octagon versus the regular octagon? Octagon that they use in arenas.

And you're trapped in there with Francis.

Exactly, exactly. And also Francis looking for revenge. Yeah, cuz this is— Stipe beat Francis in his first loss. Okay, 30%, 30% less space. That's a lot, man. 30% is crazy. So you can see the images there. The— when you see the Apex next to the, the big one, the pay-per-view one, like, that is a a lot of space, and you're just stuffed in there with a guy who is one of the absolute scariest fucking guys that's ever lived, and you can't move. You know, there's not a lot of movement. A lot of people like that because it's kind of, you know, forces action. But I think the space provides more of a canvas, you know, no pun intended, for them to paint their masterpiece. You got to be able to have angles to get out. And if you're just constrained by an object, which is a fence, when maybe if that object wasn't there, you could move to the side, move in and counter. You know, I think like when Sugar Sean O'Malley knocked out Aljamain Sterling, and Aljamain is pressing forward. Now, if the cage was closer, he wouldn't have been able to move back as far.

It like— it cuts off a lot of the possibilities. Yeah, that's off a lot of things.

That was another shocker, right?

Oh, it was amazing. Yeah, Sean did that at the White House and saluted when he knocked out that guy. And then—

and the walk-off, walk-off. And hard, so hard.

And he said he envisioned it, which is even cooler. Like, he saw it in his mind.

Mm-hmm.

That's what he was gonna do.

Yeah, that was great. He had actually— we were texting back and forth. He's like, I need to knock him out. And I was like, when it happened, I was like, oh, that's, yeah, that's just like right off into the sunset, you know.

Well, in his position, he really needed something special because Merab versus Petr Jan wasn't formula— wasn't formally announced yet, and it was thought like maybe if Sean had a spectacular event, he could get the next shot at the title because he has a victory over Petr Jan. That didn't come to be. So now Petr Jan and Merab are having a rematch. Rematch. And after that rematch, if I had to guess, it's most likely gonna be Sean fighting for the title again.

And he has that win over Peter, so that's exciting, right?

But he doesn't have a win over Merab. So if Merab wins the title again, he's gonna be like, fuck.

Yeah, it's like you said, styles make fights.

That's— yeah, I mean, it doesn't mean that he can't beat Merab. I mean, I think Sean could beat anybody, but it's just he's got to figure out whatever it is that he needs to figure out to solve that puzzle that is that little Georgian Tasmanian devil that never gets tired.

Yeah, just— he's like the Energizer Rabbit, like just keeps going.

Dude, have you ever seen what Merab's face looks like when they did like an X-ray of his face, an MRI?

No.

His broken nose?

No.

It might be the most insane broken nose I've ever seen in my life.

I would say he's not gonna get it fixed.

He's not gonna get it fixed. 'Cause then he'll have to take a year off of fighting. Not only a year off of fighting, I don't think he can even spar for a long time. So he can't— that's what his nose looks like.

Whoa, yo, it looks like— do you know who Puss Head is?

No.

Okay, Puss Head's the illest artist ever. He did like Misfits, he did like Metallica stuff. He did these skulls. Tell me that doesn't look like— that looks like Murad's face, the top right, right there. So he's the illest. He did like Zorlak. Back skateboarding, did a bunch of thrasher stuff. Yeah, that's dude—

exactly.

We got it. Yeah, Rob's got to do a skull t-shirt or some kind of merch with that.

Look at— he totally should. That should be his logo. Look at that nose, man. Look at the break of the bone, how hard it's turned towards his right eye. I mean, it's really insane. I mean, he must not have any ability to get oxygen out of that nose. Yeah, his cardio must be all mouth breathing, which is even more insane when you think about how much endurance that guy has. Yeah, look at his nose. I mean, it's crazy. The twist in that thing is fucking insane. I mean, it's like it covers part of his vision.

Yeah, I feel like he's— what, he's been out, what, 6, 7 months now?

It's been a while. Yeah, I would have been a while since he fought again. I mean, but it was because he lost the title to Piotr, and now they're gonna have a rematch.

And what, he had defended the belt 3 times in that year, right? Mm-hmm. That's—

I think it was 3 times. Yeah, well, it was definitely a strength. The schedule was, was tough because, you know, you're going through these camps, you have these brutal weight cuts. It's like your body gets worn out. And but then there's also Petr Yan, who had fought Murab before and lost to him and realized what was necessary to beat the guy and fought a perfect fight.

Yeah, that performance was amazing.

Jan is a fucking assassin too, man. He's a scary guy. He's a ruthless, mean, technical, vicious guy. And now he already knows that he can beat Merab, so it's gonna be interesting to see like who makes the adjustments in the rematch. When is— is that happening? Is that scheduled, the Merab fight? I think it is. I don't know when it is, but I'm 90% sure that they've scheduled that fight. That might be Salt Lake City. Is that the Salt Lake City fight? I don't know, but it's exciting. Yeah, yeah, it's a, it's a great time for the sport. I mean, the sport is, it's on fire right now. It says TBD. TBD, but it is announced? No, I mean, no, the Salt Lake City has a TBD for that. Oh, but does, if you look up Merab versus Kyoteryan too, does it say where it's happening?

Usually it says his next fight on the thing I'm looking at.

It doesn't have anything popping up. I'm pretty sure they've announced that that's happening.

LA card, it looks—

yeah, you going?

Yeah, I think so.

That should be fun.

Yeah.

Are you— how far are you touring right now at all? Like, what's going on?

No, I'm just in the studio this year. Okay, finished writing and producing a few albums and then was finishing this doc So what is the LA card right now?

It's Pantoja versus Joshua Vettori. I'm seeing a post that says it's reported to happen in Abu Dhabi in October. Oh, the rematch with Petr Yan and Merab?

Yep.

Okay, that sounds— that makes sense. That'd be a good one for Abu Dhabi. Yeah, yeah, the LA card's gonna be sick. So it's Arman Tsaroukian versus Mauricio Hoofey. That's gonna be insane.

Maikano versus Ortega.

That's this weekend.

Oh, sorry, which one did you want?

Um, the LA card. No worries. That's it. Yeah, so the rematch between Joshua Van and—

dude, I can't wait to see what happens.

Yeah, man, that Pantoja arm break was such a bummer. Yeah, to have him fall back like that. Yeah, Moicano versus Brian Ortega. Yeah, it should be fun. Gable Stevenson's again. Cheeto. Yeah, against Charles Jourdain. Yeah, should be fun. LA crowds are always fun too because UFC doesn't get to LA very often. It's always pretty hyped up.

Yeah, I'm excited when it comes to LA. I love Vegas, but something about LA, you know.

You still like living there?

Yeah. Los Angeles?

Yeah.

Yeah, I love it.

I mean, do you feel any difference over the last 5 years, 6 years since the pandemic?

Yeah. I mean, for me, my goal is to not drive past DeSoto. That's the goal. That's like my living is wake up with, you know, with my wife and my kids, go to the studio, come back. Well, I actually, I just bought a garage where I keep all my cars. So some days I'll leave my house. It's a, it's a 3-mile run. I'll run to my garage, pick up one of my old-school cars, drive to the studio, then drive back home. That's the perfect day. Oh, I don't drive past DeSoto.

That's nice.

Yeah.

Yeah, if you could do that and avoid the real chaos, that's the, the center of the hive. Of LA.

Yeah, once in a while I'll get out if it's like, you know, someone's— a show or something that, you know, me and the wife want to do, or me and the kids. But other than that, studio, home, studio, home, train.

Smart. Yeah, yeah, that's definitely a better life. Yeah, I have friends that live in the heart of it, like in West Hollywood. I'm like, what is it like? Like, it's not the same. Yeah, it's not the same. It's just—

yeah, I couldn't do it. The days I'm in the city, I have a bunch of stuff I'll hit, you know, like I'll go to Crossroads, I'll go do whatever, but it's rare.

Yeah, I can only imagine.

Yeah.

Did you ever think about getting out?

I don't know if I could do it yet. I think like for what I do, you know, besides like playing in Blink or touring when I'm home, I'll get a call and they'll say, hey, hey, can we come by the studio? I want to make this with you. I want you to play drums on this. I'll see Game walking in my neighborhood, Trav, I need you on this record. I just— there's so much that happens right there for me. I think there'll come a time where I don't need to be there, but right now I feel like I'm in demand and I'm playing on a bunch of stuff and I'm recording a bunch of stuff. Mm-hmm. So it makes sense for me.

Do you ever have some thought about like living in the country and retiring somewhere, just like laying back?

Yeah, we, we were on tour and there was a huge storm in Nashville area, so we were in Franklin for a few days, Franklin, Tennessee, and we immediately started looking at houses. We gotta go here, but we kind of do that everywhere we go. You know, we, you know, you travel, you go on vacation, you're like, we want to live here, we want to get a spot here. But I do, I do love Southern California. We have a spot up north, like in Santa Barbara. I love Santa Barbara as well. I love the desert.

Santa Barbara's all—

I feel like moving around in Southern California keeps things fresh, like going to the desert for a week or a few days, going to Santa Barbara, and then during the week staying in Calabasas or like Los Angeles and, you know, working out of there.

The Montecito area is insane.

Yeah, Montecito. So gorgeous. And I also feel like the desert, like Coachella out there, is— you feel like you're in a different world. You feel much further away from LA and all the chaos than you are. Yeah, it's cool.

Yeah, no doubt. I mean, how many people have gone out to the desert just to try to find themselves?

Yeah, true.

That's— it's a very unique environment out there.

Yeah.

Yeah, just kind of weird that they decided to put music festivals out there.

I know, it's wild. You know, one of my best friends— I, when I, when I left home at, uh, at around like 16, 17, my dad had given me a couple options to, uh, he said join the military like me, start paying rent, or take off. So I took off, right? Uh, was a trash man in Laguna Beach for a while, then I moved to Riverside and I lived with my friend Bill Foles old. He had this, this promoting company called 98 Posse, and he would do everything from raves to punk rock shows, hardcore shows, anything. And he ended up starting Coachella. And oh wow, he's just been— he was obsessed. Like what we talked about earlier, he was one of those people that were obsessed. And, uh, and I watched him build this amazing festival. And yeah, he's just pretty, pretty awesome. But the city of Coachella is— it's crickets though all the rest of the year. There's nothing. It gets so hot, it's 115. Most businesses close down halfway, you know, through the day. They're open for the morning, and then when Coachella happens, the city thrives, and it's just, you know, chaos.

Are they happy with that? That seems like there's probably a lot of conflicted people.

I, I don't know. I don't own a business out there, but I bet for everyone that's struggling when it's 115, 120 and no one's coming out of the house, right? I feel like they're almost like Coachella saves them, like the festival saves everybody.

Oh, definitely.

Just the volume of people in the town, the volume of people that comes through, I think saves all the businesses. For sure. If you have a business, when we're out there and it's not like the season or whatever they call it and it's considered too hot, most businesses are open from 9 to 1 PM.

That drive out to the desert though is like, you better make sure your air conditioning works.

Yeah.

And no old-school cars. Don't be taking none of your old-school cars on that trip.

Well, don't— the only thing I've driven from LA to La Quinta out there is, uh, have you ever heard of Velocity?

Yeah.

I got a K5 from them.

Oh nice.

You could drive that out there, but nothing—

Tom Segura has one of those.

Yeah, they're sick.

Yeah, he got one of their their blazers.

They make such a great K5.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, he loves his. Yeah, they—

I think I've seen this. Yeah, it's all black. Oh, it's brown.

It's brown.

I'm colorblind.

Are you really?

I'm fucking severely colorblind. I have to ask my 2-and-a-half-year-old son what color things are sometimes. That's how bad it is. Like, I'll be like, what, what color is your favorite? And then he'll tell me what colors they are.

Does that look black to you?

Kinda. Yeah, that really looks black to me.

Yeah, well, that's pretty dark. That's in the shadows. That's like back—

I have an all black one.

What a sick looking truck.

So a lot of people build these K5s and they do restomods, but they're either overbuilt and they don't drive great, or it's like, uh, it's either overbuilt or it doesn't run great, or they do too much. Like, this isn't overdone. They make the perfect restomod.

It's reliable.

Yeah, it's reliable.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, there's mine.

Oh nice. Oh, you got it very old-school looking. I love it.

Yeah, I wanted it to look almost like bone stock. It does. I have a couple K5s, but this is the Velocity one. I have a, I have an OG orange one with plaid interior that's '72 that still has the, the old-school engine and everything.

Oh really?

Mm-hmm, and it just stays in Palm Springs, and that's where we drive that one.

Does it have the old-school brakes too?

No.

Yeah, fuck that.

That's it right there. Oh, but see how it looks like it shouldn't leave. Yeah, Springs is, you know, my wife drives it a lot.

Oh, that's cool. Yeah, K5s are dope. I have a '72 Bronco from Icon.

Sick. Icon was great. Yeah, they made a Blazer.

Yeah, they did.

I almost bought it. It was so good, and he's so cool. Is John— yeah, yeah, I feel like he, he kind of set it all off.

Jonathan Ward.

Yeah, that's the one. Okay, so I built, I built that. With Delmo and a couple people around LA. I just took it from shop to shop. This was my version of a Velocity, but that thing's sick. It didn't drive as good as a Velocity restoration.

Well, it's also— you're so lifted. Yeah, like the handling on the thing must be rough, like going around corners and shit.

It was really cool. I was really proud of it.

It's beautiful.

Thank you.

That's very cool-looking. There's something about that iconic design There's something with the way those things look. Look at that. God, it looks awesome.

I just remember as a kid seeing topless Chevy trucks. Like, I was like, what? This is— it doesn't get any better than this.

Yeah, it is. There's a weird thing about old-school cars. They just— they spark something in you. Yeah, they're more exciting. Like, I like new cars. I love new cars. They're cool, but they don't have the same feeling. There's something about those old-schools that's just like it's mechanical, like you're connected to it, you know?

Yeah, I mean, I'm a sucker for old Chevys and Cadillacs, and I have a bunch. That's like—

how many cars you have now?

I think I have 12. I have a lot of old-school Impalas.

Really? Like '65s?

I have a '59. Oh, whoa, Paula, real old school. Yeah, I have a '62 wagon Impala. 63 convertible Impala, '60 Cadillac GNX.

'60 Cadillacs are wild.

Oh, it's so—

do you have a picture of that thing?

I think it might, it might be on the interweb somewhere.

1960 Cadillacs were crazy.

That's my old— that's my old 1960 Caddy. I used to have that.

Wow, look at that thing. That is wild. Good luck parking that.

Yeah, nothing feels like that when you drive those cars. Oh, I'd imagine.

It's a boat that feels like you're in the middle of the Queen Mary.

Yeah, look how— that was my '53.

That's yours, the far right?

These are all my, my, my cars in my collection from at some point in my life.

Yeah, so you're an old soul, dude.

I am.

There must be— there's something about you that connects with these things.

Yeah, old cars move. I don't know, I like the smell of them.

I like everything They're just hard to maintain. You got a really good mechanic.

It's hard. You know what kind of feels old school that I got recently, that, um, but that's new, is the Chevy Fox truck.

What is that?

Things are fucking beast. See if you could pull it up. It's the Fox, the Fox Chevy Silverado.

Is this a new car that's come out recently?

It's Chevy's answer to the, the Raptor or the the TRX. That's mine right there. So it's usually— they usually have orange accents, but I did all mine matte black. So it's just— I think it has 600 or 700 horsepower. It has like Baja suspension. You could drive it anywhere.

So it's just like a Raptor.

Yeah.

Why do I not know about this? That's crazy. The Fox Factory Silverado.

That's my— that's my daily.

Fox shocks.

Yeah, it is.

So Fox shocks did a collaboration with them.

Yeah, the guts, like you could literally jump this truck wherever the fuck you want, you know.

So that's your daily driver?

Yeah.

Yeah, I have a Raptor.

I love the Raptors too.

I have a Hennessey Raptor R. Oh, those are hard. That's fun. That's a beautiful truck.

Yeah, thank you.

There's something about those kind of trucks too that's exciting. I mean, 1,000-horsepower trucks are ridiculous. It's like, how do they— look at that thing flying through the air. That's so crazy. Do you ever take it on the dunes?

I haven't yet. When I bought it, they came out to the desert and brought a couple, and we just whipped them around the desert. And we're supposed to plan a day where we go out and jump and do everything. And they're like, we'll even let you use one of our trucks so we don't fuck up yours. So I was like, oh, that's nice. Appreciate that. Yeah. 'Cause it is all carbon fiber fenders. It's pretty cool.

Yeah, so they stretched it out and widened the wheelbase and everything.

Yeah, and you can't even buy them in the States. Like, you have to— I mean, in California, you have to— I had to ship it from Vegas because of all of the extras, because it's supercharged.

So California won't let you buy it?

Mm-hmm. Well, I had to go through this process of pretending I bought it somewhere else. Yeah, what a goofy fucking statement. But I'm, yeah, super happy with it.

We are doing another studio. We're gonna do a studio at the Circuit of the Americas racetrack.

Mm-hmm. And so like this?

Uh-huh.

Cool.

Yeah, exactly, at that place, that racetrack.

Sick.

So which is in Austin. And so what we're gonna do is have it set up where you're gonna be able to go around the track track. We'll, you know, do some laps and then pull in and then have a podcast.

Cool. Yeah, I love that.

Which would be great because there you'll— I feel like for your mind, your mind will be so jazzed up after you do a bunch of laps on a racetrack that you'll come in, you'll be like, ah, oh, ready to go for sure.

It'll be really fun because I bet some people rile themselves up like to come up in here and get really nervous or like, I don't know.

Yeah, some people do. It's crazy. Yeah, well, you've done it a bunch. You, you and I have talked and hung out before, so it's like it's easy. Yeah, but for some people it's like doing anything that's got a lot of views gets them weirded out. It's hard.

Yeah, yeah. I think you were honestly one of like the first podcasts I did besides like Rich Roll, um, back in the day.

But how's Rich doing?

He's great.

Is he okay? He was— he had some health issues, right?

I think, I think he just had like a back surgery or something. Yeah, but, uh, he's all— man, he's so cool. Uh, he reached out. I mean, he just reached out a couple days ago saying, I, I love your doc and I'd really love I'd love to talk to you again. So I'll definitely visit him. But when I was— when I started my running journey, he had reached out and was like, anything you need.

Oh, that's cool.

Yeah, he was—

he's super nice guy.

So cool.

Yeah, very, very nice guy. But yeah, I'd read something about him having back problems, and I always get sad when I hear about people that have back problems and I hear they had surgery. Oh, he looks fucking great.

Looks like he's healthy.

Yeah, fucking shredded.

I feel like if you're running all the time or training all the time, you're bound to have some type of injury too.

The back thing scares me though when people get surgery because there's a lot of options other than surgery that are probably gonna be better for most people. Yeah, depending upon the situation, of course.

I broke my back in 4 places in my accident.

Oh Jesus.

And I didn't know about it because I was laid out in a burn center for 6 months and I never got any surgeries. Like, my doctor exactly said what you just said. It's like, you healed perfect. Like, it's me doing surgery, I can't guarantee you'd be any better place than you are now. Yeah.

So I have friends that have had back surgery and they have gotten better because of the back surgery, but I also have a lot of friends that got back surgery and they never were the same again, and they had to get another back surgery and then another one, and they have nerve damage and their arms go numb, and then they have atrophy in their limbs.

And surgery's sketch.

Well, it can be, but there's other ways around it when it comes to like disc issues. And this is one of the things that I try to highlight to people. There's PRP, there's, there's a place in LA and Santa Monica called Life Cycle. Is that it? But they do something called Regenekine. And Regenekine is a type of— I've gone to them a bunch of times. How can I not remember the name of it? Isn't it Life Cycle? Life Cycle Santa Monica? Um, what's that? Lifespan. Lifespan. Sorry, Lifespan Santa Monica. Lifespan Medicine. Phenomenal place. Shout out to Moshe, my friend there. But they do PRP, but it's a different kind of— it's called Regenakin. And what they do is they take your blood, they pull it out of your body, they spin it in a centrifuge and do some sort of process to it, and then they re-inject it into you the next day. Into the discs, and it's an insanely potent anti-inflammatory agent. And it was the first thing that I did that ever fixed my bulging discs, where I had bulging discs in my neck to the point where I was getting numbness in my fingers.

Yeah, all from jiu-jitsu.

Damn.

And it was really getting me to the point where I was like, I don't think I could train anymore. Like, every time I train, I'm in agony. Like, I— it keeps getting worse. And I would go to a chiropractor, and he was full of shit, and they weren't helping me at all. And then this Regenekine thing, and like within a week I started feeling better. Two weeks later, no more numbness, no more tingling in my fingers. And then within a couple of months after that, I was fully healed. I got another MRI. My disc had come completely gone back in place.

Wow, that's game-changing.

Yeah, because it was pulling, it was pushing out and pressing against the nerve, and it was causing pain, like nerve pain in my elbow. And in my— it was the ulnar nerve, same nerve that you were talking about.

Scary, right?

Yeah.

Getting like tingly feelings in your fingers, you can't feel them.

Yeah, it was also one of these things where I was like, okay, I think I might be done with jiu-jitsu. Like, this is a real problem. But I got back into it because of this. So the Regenekine fixed that. And then I've also had stem cells now. Like, stem cells can— especially if you go to a place that really is on top of everything and that they're using state-of-the-art stem cell technology. Like there's a lot of places you have to go out of the country, like CPI down in Mexico.

So I was gonna ask you, is there places in the States now?

Ways to Well. Ways to Well right here in Austin is the best place I've ever been to. I haven't been to the places overseas, but I've had phenomenal results with Ways to Well, and I brought a bunch of people in that have had phenomenal— we just brought Jon Jones in recently. He's got hip problems. His hip feels much better, he said. We brought a bunch of MMA fighters in. Al Jermaine Sterling, who was just here a couple days ago, he was there at Waste to Well on Monday. And so Waste to Well is like— my friend Brigham who runs it is— it's literally like state-of-the-art. Whatever the fucking science is at the moment, he's on top of it. And they've got hyperbaric chambers, they've got red light therapy, they've got every, every single method of treating injuries and recovery. They, they're always on top of everything. They have a full gym down there. It's really sick. It's an awesome place. But for you being, you know, either when you're out here, if you ever want to get treated, if there's something wrong, if you have an injury, you could definitely go to here to Waste Well.

You could also go to Tijuana, like Tijuana where the CPI is. That's the place that has the— they have a partnership with the UFC, the Cellular Performance Institute in Tijuana. Amazing place. I know the guys who run it, and that's another very similar, state-of-the-art place, but they aren't restricted with the type of— there's different restrictions in America in terms of what you can and can't do. Down there, it's the Wild West. You can kind of do anything. And so I know a lot of people that have had pretty phenomenal results going there.

Yeah, I'm wondering, I have this, I have this gene, Factor V, where I clot really easy. Mm-hmm. I wonder if I could do it.

Let's find out. What— why would that—

like, for example, I can't do IVs.

Really?

Mm-hmm.

How come?

Because I have really thick blood. I have a blood disorder. Oh, it's not really easy.

And that's a genetic variant?

Yeah. Well, I didn't— I didn't really know about it when, when my accident happened. I had a bunch of clots clots. And just so they put a filter that lives in my body forever, it's like a permanent filter that kind of like funnels the blood so it doesn't get stuck.

Where's the filter?

Uh, it's like between my back and my stomach.

Wow.

Yeah, to stop anything coming up like big clots from my leg.

Holy shit.

My heart or my head. So, um, a filter?

What's it made out of?

It's plastic. Like, unfortunately, because I've read a bunch about them. I went on this whole journey because when I found out about it and they said we had to put this in you or you could have died because you had huge clots, uh, but you can't remove it and they have a life expectancy of about 20 years, and then sometimes the filter breaks inside of you or— oh, it could cause whatever. But, uh, yeah, just PMA, positive mental attitude. It's not gonna happen.

How long ago did you get it put in?

It was like my accident, whatever year that was, 2008.

So it was almost 20 years ago, so you might have to get it taken out.

You can't take it out. Oh, it's cemented to the wall. Oh yeah, so like you can't, you can't do anything with it now. Now about 10 years later, they started making ones that are removable. Yeah, mine's not removable. IVC filter. Yeah, that's exactly—

they can't take it out and put a new one in that's removable.

Mm-hmm.

You sure?

Positive.

That seems crazy.

They say the, the surgery to take it out would be more life-threatening than leaving it in. Whoa. Yeah.

And so what happens if this thing breaks and fails?

So Ironically, it could do the same thing a clock would do. It would go up to your heart or your head, kill you.

Oh, fuck, man. That's it, huh? IVC filter device to stop blood clots and prevent them from traveling to the heart and lungs. Wow. Do you have to take any kind of medication for this?

Just blood thinner when I, when I fly. Just because I know, because I know I clot. Or if I'm, if I'm on a tour bus for long, long periods of time, I got to take I take a blood thinner, but then I don't take them every day because it's also a risk to be on blood thinners. And if you get in a car accident or whatever, any kind of cut. Yeah, right. But I honestly, I forget about it. I forget it's even in there. Just— but yeah, just like— but you know how some people will go on, they'll do a marathon and then they'll get an IV? I can't do that. Or—

wow.

I just have to really be cautious about getting poked. Yeah, I had a— I had an incident that happened years ago where someone was just trying to find my vein, and she had poked me tons of times, this nurse, and I had 30 clots just in one of my arms.

Holy fuck, dude.

So yeah, I've also learned the lesson of not being really cautious and what happens, you know?

Yeah, so I can't believe you still spar when you have that. That seems nuts, because like you get leg kicked and develop a clot in your legs.

Yeah, I could, but my doctor's pretty cool and he doesn't over-worry about too much or anything. He said, I'd rather you not have a blood thinner in your system if you're playing drums and you cut yourself open, or if you're boxing or light sparring. Mm-hmm. So yeah, I mean, knock on wood.

So it's called Factor V. Factor V, yeah. And it's just a rare genetic condition?

Yeah. Wow. Well, I think a lot of people have it. I think there's— I don't, I don't know how rare it is, but yeah, the people do— you can have half a gene or a full gene, and I have the full one. So I'm really prone to clotting, where my kids, like my one daughter Alabama, she has half half of it. So it's not as concerning, but she has to be cautious.

Huh.

Whoa. Yeah.

And is there anything you can do with supplements or anything like that that aids that?

Uh, like a natural blood thinner is beet juice, or like beet shots. So I pretty much have one every day. Uh, baby aspirin.

Beet juice is supposed to aid also in like oxygen utilization, right?

Yeah, I mean, it was actually the guy who told me about that. It was the pre-workout before pre-workouts.

Really?

Yeah. Yeah, people would just slam beet juice or a shot of beet juice. I do it every show.

Beet juice?

Mm-hmm. Beet juice, beet juice like an hour before you go on stage.

Drinking about 1 cup, 250 milliliters of beetroot juice daily can help lower systolic blood pressure the top number by a few points. The natural dietary nitrates in beets convert into nitric oxide in your body, which relaxes and widens your blood vessels to improve blood flow. Oh, so it's like nature's Viagra.

Yeah, it is basically. Yeah, that and ginseng, my go-to.

Ginseng.

I love ginseng.

Ginseng is awesome for energy.

So good.

Yeah, it's kind of amazing how many different natural remedies there are that really work. And we were all sort of brainwashed when we were younger to think that the only thing that's good for you are drugs from the pharmaceutical company. That if you have anything wrong with you, the medicine is all medicine that's petroleum-based pharmaceutical drug medicine, and that's what's good for you. All that other herbal stuff is all for retards. It's all for nonsense and hippies and people that don't read books.

Well, because they brainwash us, right?

Yeah.

I don't take any medicine. I don't take Advil, Tylenol.

Good for you.

Anything.

That stuff— the thing about Tylenol, or Advil I should say, for people that take nonsteroidal anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen, that stuff is terrible for your gut.

Isn't Tylenol super bad for you now? Well, Tylenol—

well, there was a really sad story that I read during the pandemic of this lady who had COVID, and she was in so much pain that she kept pounding taking Tylenol and she died from liver toxicity. Because Tylenol, which has acetaminophen in it, kills people every year. Like, how many people— we've— I know we've looked this up before, but I don't remember the number, but it's not a small number of people die from acetaminophen poisoning from things like Tylenol every year. It's quite a few. Damn. Yeah, it's like you would think, oh, Tylenol's not gonna kill you, it's just like a pill, and it won't if you just take one or if you take 2 or whatever you're supposed to take, but if you take a lot, you're fucked. 500 deaths per year, largely through overdose-related acute liver failure. Some estimates put it at roughly 4— what does that mean, 458? About 500, reasonably shorthand. Yeah, acetaminophen is fucking poisoning. It can get you, you know, if you take a lot of it. And yeah, the— is— I don't think that's the same with ibuprofen. I don't think there's a lot of ibuprofen ibuprofen, desk.

But I do know that my friend Cam Haynes, who runs—

I love Cam.

Have you ever met him?

Yeah, yeah, we run together. Oh really?

Yeah. No shit.

He actually did one of my, you know how I was saying I'm like really into tempo training, where like you'll tempo train, you'll do like a vigorous like resistance weights, and then you'll sprint, you know. He came and did one with me and he was like, fuck, Trav. He was like, that was, that was a lot, you know. And we went on, we run anytime he's in LA. I love Cam. Like people get so pissed that we're friends.

Why?

Because they're like, how do you like someone that hunts? I'm like, cuz that's my guy. I love him. I don't care if he hunts. I don't care who he votes for. I don't care what he eats. Like, that's my dog. He gave me a bow. It was so cool. We shot it at my studio. It was so— he's so cool. And I think likewise, probably a bunch of people are like, why are you homies with a vegan, Cam? Whatever, whatever, whatever people think, you know, like Like, we, uh, I love Cam.

I think there's way more accepting people on the other side than the vegan side. The vegan side is very hardcore. Those people get very adamant about, like, not being around other people that don't share their values, or—

I don't care what anyone does. That's good for you. You know, I love everyone the same. I don't care what president you vote for. I don't care if you're gay, straight. I don't care about anything, you know. Judge people if they're a good person.

You know, I agree, and that's how we all should be.

But yeah, I met Cam. I showed up to— I actually showed up to Tom and Bert's like 5K. It was the first time I ever ran, and I just showed up. My homie Toby invited me, and I said, fuck, I'll go run a 5K, whatever. I've never ran a 5K. I always run by myself just because I like running. And I show up there, and right when I get to the starting line Cam greets me, and I don't know who he is. He's like, what are you gonna pace today? What's your number? And I'm like, fuck if I know. And he's like, what about you? And he gave me some number, and he's like, what are you gonna do? I said, I'm gonna try to keep up. And I just ran my ass off. Like, I just like tried to keep up with Cam. And then, and then we just stayed friends after that.

Oh, that's awesome.

And I did pretty, pretty good in that 5K, actually. Did way better than I thought I would have, you know.

That's awesome. That's awesome.

And then we became friends, and he's one of my best friends. Yeah, he's—

I love him to death.

Such a good guy.

What I was getting at was that he was taking ibuprofen. He was taking 800 milligrams a day, and I didn't know he was taking that much. And I was talking to him on the phone once, and he was telling me, yeah, I take 800 milligrams a day. I was like, whoa, wait a minute, how much? I go, you do that every day? And I go, why? He goes, I'm in pain. I'm in pain all the time, and I want to keep running. And so then I sent him some information that Rhonda Patrick, Dr. Rhonda Patrick, put out about the problem with ibuprofen, the problem with taking large doses of it on a regular basis and what it does to your gut biome. So he stopped taking it. He said, well, fuck, I don't want to ruin my body. Let me just stop taking it. The pain that he was experiencing went away after he stopped taking 800 milligrams of ibuprofen a day, and he realized that the pain that he was experiencing was accentuated by the fact that he was causing inflammation in his body by taking anti-inflammatories that were destroying his gut biome. So he's taking—

because his gut was messed up. Exactly.

So he's taking all this 800 milligrams of ibuprofen every day. It's torching his gut biome. That's causing this cascade of inflammatory responses in his body. And he's in pain all the time. He gets off of the ibuprofen, the pain goes away.

Damn.

Isn't that wild?

Yeah.

But you get brainwashed into thinking, I need all these things. Meanwhile, turmeric and curcumin, and there's a bunch of different anti-inflammatories that don't cause any sort of gut disturbance, and they're much better for you and healthy, and you can, you know, get them from food.

Yeah, all the natural stuff. And then I feel like contrast therapy be so helpful, you know?

Yep.

Like doing sauna, cold plunge, sauna, cold plunge. Oh yeah, anytime I'm injured, that's, that's what I go to. Yeah, I hit up Cam actually one time and I was like, Cam, I just did a half marathon, I'm about to do another one, what do you suggest? He's like, Trav, get yourself an elk. I was like, Cam, remember who you're talking to, you know?

So for you, is the vegan thing just all animal? Animals? It's an animal love thing?

Uh, nah, I wasn't even— it is, it is that. Like, I am kind of under the, the, the thought process of if I love one, if I have a dog and I love a dog, I love— I kind of love all animals, right? Like, I, I love all animals the same. I'm not like, I'm gonna eat that one, I'm gonna shoot that one, but I love my dog, right? It's a little contradicting to me, you know, but, uh, but I I didn't even know any of these things at a young age. I remember food will be put in front of me and there would be ham, whatever, and I would just naturally put the ham in my pocket and eat like the mac and cheese or whatever else, the spinach. And because my dad had this rule, he's like, you eat everything, you don't get up from the fucking table. Straight up. I don't care if you're there for 3 hours. That, that's what it was, because your mom spent time making the food. You got to eat the food, you don't leave the table. So I'd pocket it and then my mom, my mom would find it when she'd go wash clothes.

So it started like that. And then next was, oh, ham is actually this, hot dog is actually this, hamburger is this. And I'm like, whoa, I just thought hamburger was a hamburger. I didn't really know.

Cow meat. Yeah.

Yeah. So I just naturally didn't like— I was already like not liking the taste or the texture, right? So I was like, okay, whatever. And so vegetarian from the time I was a kid all the way up until my accident, and then after my accident, vegan.

Mm.

So it wasn't really about animals. It was just at that time, it was like I just— I wasn't drawn to eat that stuff. It's not— it's not what I was into.

What about eggs?

I loved bean and cheese burritos. I grew up on bean and cheese burritos from Vegas.

I love a good bean and cheese.

Yeah, from where I grew up, you know.

Yeah.

Um, I love Mexican food.

Good bean and cheese burrito with hot sauce.

Yeah, you can't beat it. So that's kind of like what I was raised on.

There's cheese in bean and cheese burritos.

Yeah, so I wasn't vegan until 20 years ago. You know, so I would have dairy.

But do you ever eat eggs?

Never.

No, you know, if you have your own chickens, it's a pretty karma-free food. It's like, I have chickens. I have 19 chickens and they're pets, so they wander around the yard, bawk bawk bawk, have a good time. Like, hey ladies, like, there's— they have no cruelty. No one's doing anything bad to them. They go in their nest boxes and they lay eggs, and then you just gather the eggs. The eggs will never be a chicken because they're not fertilized. It's just food. Yeah, it's just free food. I mean, it's not free. You pay for chicken food and you take care of them and all that stuff. But I mean, in terms of like, it's karma-free. Yeah, no one's getting hurt. Like, literally no one is getting hurt. The chickens will lay an egg almost every day. Yeah, and so we have like baskets of eggs. Eggs in my house. We always have eggs.

I think for whatever, for whatever reason now it's like anything. And there— wait, and there's this amazing— it's actually, I think they, they market it as a protein, a vegan protein, but you make egg whites out of it and it's phenomenal.

What's it made of?

And it has the same amount of protein as egg whites do.

Does it have the same amino acid profile?

I think so. Maybe if it— see if it comes up. What is it Um, I have it in my phone somewhere, but I don't have my phone.

Jimmy would probably find it.

Yeah, so it's like, it's like, and it's not just egg or one of the basic ones. It's one that my daughter had sent me, and it's bananas. You make, uh, you make omelets out of it, and it's just incredible, and you get tons of protein. But I think after I, after I ate beef jerky in a hospital for 6 months, I was like, peace, I'm gonna be vegan, I'm gonna be vegan, watch this. And then I stopped, like, I stopped kind of having anything that came from animals, period, just to see what it would be like. Mm-hmm. Like, I don't have honey. Even— yeah, no honey. And I just feel fucking good. Like, I have tons of energy. I can— I have no lack of energy. I, you know, I feel great. I feel like I operate— like, I have— I don't know, just feel the best I've ever felt, like, how I am right now.

You know, I mean, I think everyone's different. Yeah, and that's one of the cool things about having a bunch of different diets out there is a bunch of different options for people to try and find what— whatever works for you.

Yeah, even within my family, like, my one daughter is vegetarian, my son eats meat, my wife eats meat, my youngest son has meat sometimes. It's like whatever, whatever everyone decides is what I'm cool with, you know?

That's awesome.

And that's just what works for me.

That's a great attitude. But I think you also have you have it dialed in, like you have whatever diet you're on dialed in, where you know you're getting the right amount of protein. And there's quite a few different plant sources of protein that have a complete amino acid profile.

I know hemp is one. Yeah, or those Perfect Aminos that Gary makes.

Gary Brecka, yeah.

Those are a game changer. You take 5 in the morning, 5 at night, game changer.

Yeah, no, that stuff sucks.

But it was, I won't say it's like not hard to dial it in, it is difficult to dial it in, is you got to navigate just like anything else, right?

Right. There's too many people that they go vegan, but then they just eat like vegan pizza, and they don't, you know.

Yeah.

Crossroads, your restaurant, I still have never been, but everybody that I know that went says it's fucking phenomenal. Like, even Dana, who does not like— Dana White, who does not like vegan food, he's like, dude, it's fucking incredible. He goes, it's incredible.

Yeah, I think, I think when, uh, you probably don't know what to expect, right, when you go to a plant-based restaurant, right? But Tal Ronen, the chef from Crossroads, is just— he's incredible. And the food, it's an afterthought that you ate something that was vegan. It's not even on the menu that it's plant-based.

That's awesome. There's a place in the Valley that I used to go to all the time. God, I can't remember the name of it now. Escaping me.

Was it Follow Your Heart?

Yes. La—

every day.

Yes, that's so good. That place is great. Yeah, it's another completely plant-based restaurant. We used to go there all the time.

Yeah, it's— I lived in LA.

Yeah, Follow Your Heart was pretty close.

Yeah, they have a little cafe where you can eat in a grocery store. Yep, yep. Supplements and stuff. It's cool.

Yeah, it's great. Their nut burger, very good. Yeah, it's like really— I would crave it.

Yeah, that's cool. I'm like, I love just everyone being open-minded and you know what I mean?

Oh yeah, I'll try anything. Yeah. For me personally, what I've tried I eat more meat than anything. I eat meat, mostly meat. Yeah, mostly wild game. But I eat a lot of ribeyes and steak, and that just makes me feel the best. You know, I don't love animal cruelty. I don't like it. I don't think it's good in any way, shape, or form. But I also realize that animals eat animals. Life eats life. Yeah, this is just— and the thing about hunting is I'm in complete contact with where my food's coming from. I know the source of it. I'm there when the animal dies. I'm there. I do it. I participate in the whole thing. I carry it out of the woods, you know, I cut it up, bring it to a butcher shop and have it, you know, packaged into steaks.

I'm thinking of Cam right now because when he was in my neighborhood, you know, we have deer in Calabasas. He was eyeballing them. Oh yeah, he was eyeballing them. I'm like, don't even fucking think about it. Course he was. Yeah, he was like, oh, look at that, look at that.

Right behind the shoulder.

I'm looking at him like, oh, look at the cool family of deer. He's like, oh shit, that's like food. Yeah, it's food. So funny.

Well, especially him.

But yeah, I totally— like I said, I get it, you know.

It's cool that you're so open-minded about that, that you do it, and you're not judgmental. It's— I think that's a great attitude to have that more people should adopt with everything. With political ideologies, religion, whatever it is. Yeah, just don't fuck with me, I won't fuck with you. I'd like to hear your opinions on things because I'd like to know where people— where they form their thoughts from. What's your perspective?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hate when anyone from either side of things are so aggressive that we're like— you just bum everybody out, you know?

They do. And I also think that a lot of times it's not coming from a healthy place to begin with. I think a lot of people find a thing that they can use as an excuse to be an asshole. And whether that thing is their political beliefs or their religion or whatever, their social ideology, whatever it is, they find a thing that they can call you out because you fuck you, you're the fucking reason, man. Fuck you, man. And it's just what's really going on is they're just looking for a reason to be an asshole. And they're not a balanced person or a happy, healthy person. It's one thing if someone is confronting you personally and yelling at you and you're yelling back at them and you're in an argument, but if you're starting that, initiating that because someone doesn't disagree— does someone disagrees with you or doesn't see things the way they're doing, first of all, you're a shitty communicator, and two, you're probably a shitty person because that's why you're behaving the way you're behaving, and you're using this this point, whatever it is, whether it's being a vegan or being a Republican or being a Democrat or being a Muslim or being a Christian or whatever the fuck it is that you've decided is more important than being civil and kind and courteous, you're— what you really are is just a shitty version of a person, whether you realize it or not.

You probably don't, probably don't even— probably think you're justified and that's why you're doing it, and you probably think I'm doing the right thing, and everyone's like, I love it that you have no chill. He's got no chill. Like, no, he's a cunt. This guy's a cunt, and he's a miserable, insufferable person to be around regardless of what his belief system is versus the other person's belief system. And if he had a perspective that was, I don't know why you think the way you think, but I think differently, let's have a conversation, you might find common ground.

Yeah, totally.

You might be able to realize like, oh, you can have friends that don't think the way you think. I have friends that are Muslims. I have friends that are atheists. I have all— I have gay friends. I have a ton of friends that are completely different than me, and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. I love them. It's great. You do— you don't— everyone doesn't have to be you. Everyone doesn't have to be the same as you, nor do they have to agree with you. Yeah, but there's too many people that what they're looking for is some reason why they're right and some reason to be an asshole to other people that that don't think the same way they think, and they think that they're justified by it. And I think there— it's a real problem. It's also a real problem with social media because those people, their voices get amplified and people pile in, yeah, you go boy, or you go girl.

And I feel like anyone who can like look at— I mean, social media is, it's corny to begin with, right? But you're gonna go on Instagram, then you're gonna say something extreme or fucked up to someone. It's like, yeah, you're so You're so lame, like, that you actually took the time to think about writing something bad, then wrote it, then press send. Like, you're fucked up, you know what I mean? Like, straight up, like, anyone that's gonna say or spew negativity, I'm like, yep, yeah, I just— it's just weakness for it.

Yeah, it's just weakness. And I guarantee you, you're not doing the maximum amount you should be doing with your life, with whatever you're pursuing.

You're, you're not they're lacking somewhere.

Optimized, for sure.

100%.

Like, that's why they choose the time to just lash out at people or mischaracterize people or have the least charitable take on people. It's usually they're lacking. They're usually at least somewhat mediocre. There's always usually some flaw in their game and what they're doing, and they're lashing out at other people, which is fine, but it's also like other people can learn from that too. Like, God, that guy seems like a cunt, and then don't be a cunt. You know, yeah, realize that and go, okay, yeah, I kind of see that myself sometimes. Maybe I should do a little self-correction.

Yeah, you're like, I don't ever want to be like that. Exactly. That's great.

Exactly. Or the opposite, when someone's like, has like a really objective, charitable take on someone, like, hey man, maybe he thinks this way, and you know, maybe the right way to approach it is to approach someone civilly and we can find common ground. Like, some— you read someone saying something like that and you go, oh, I want to be more like that guy. Like, that guy, like, I like the way that guy thinks. Like, that, that's inspiring to me. Like, that to me, like, that's probably a cool person to have a conversation with. They're not gonna be— they're not gonna use it as an excuse to be aggressive, an excuse to be shitty and insulting and mean, because you're not changing anybody's opinion when you do that. You're just not, you know. And what you— will you get the peanut gallery to pile in Great. So you've got team cunt. You've got a little cunt farm behind you, and you're all attacking all these other people, and you think somehow or another you're justified because there's some other flawed people that agree with you, that you're allowed to be shitty to people because they don't think the way you think, or because they only eat plants, or because they worship this god, or— like, come on.

Yeah, the world— like, David Goggins has it figured out, how he, like, how he just listens to all his haters or whatever, and he, like, runs or exercises, like like, that's the, that's the shit. Like, use it as a tool, you know?

Yeah, I think you're better off not even listening to the haters. He's insane. Every time I talk to him, like, you're so insane.

Yeah, I mean, like I said, yeah, anyone that's gonna say anything is so, so lame right off the jump.

Yeah, but there's a lot of lame people in this world, unfortunately, because there's a lot of people that don't have a, you know, it's hard to be a person. It's complicated. Yeah, don't have a guidebook on how to be a person and be happy.

And I think you have to— like, I'm disciplined. Like, sometimes I'll read something and I'll be like, you motherfucker. Like, I'm like, oh no, I can't do— I can't do what they do, right? Like, I can't— I can't stoop to that.

Especially you're Travis Barker. Yeah, you're a famous guy. Like, if you do what they do, it's a different thing. Like, if you go back at them, it's— that is one of the lamest things when you see celebrities never going at like fans in the comments. Like, what are you— take your phone away. Take his phone away. Yeah, who's letting—

we don't want to see you do that. The people who love your music or whatever.

Oh no, no, no, no, no. How many people have like ruined other people's opinions of them because of doing something like that? Or going on some lame fucking rant against someone because of the way they voted or the way they view this or the way they, you know, whatever it is.

Luckily, like, the hate— the hate— like, I get the weird— I get the weirdest hate. It's not even really hate, but it's just something like they know they're like throwing darts from across the room at me. It's like, oh bro, he's like a Kardashian now, or he married a Kardashian. I'm like, motherfucker, that's the most punk thing I could do is marry a Kardashian and just say fuck you, you know what I mean? It's about like the— like, that even shows you I clearly don't give a fuck, you know what I mean? Like, and my wife isn't like— I can't label her like that. She's my wife. She's my soulmate, right? I love her to death. But to think, like, have you seen me change?

Well, that's not at all.

Have you seen me, like, dressed— dog, I dress so different, obviously, than my wife or her family. Like, I'm continued to be my own person. I've looked the same. I've wore the same Dickies pants, the same band shoes. Had the same tattoos that stopped me from getting a real job since I was 16 years old. Fuck you. You know what I mean? Straight up, fuck you. And, and that's why— I mean, punk rock is not about music either. It's about like, you don't, you don't care what anyone thinks, right? As long as you're going through what you're doing. Yeah, you are who you are and you're not hurting anybody. That, that's punk rock.

I think a lot of people thought it was cool that you guys got together. Like, look at this, two people from totally different worlds that love each other. That's cool.

Oh, it's the best. It's the best. It's just only a hater would think that other way though, right?

You know, but if you started getting all your tattoos lasered off and you started wearing designer clothes—

yeah, I started dressing like a lame, and I start— yeah, of course, like, dude, come for me, you know? Please, please. But yeah, that's like, that's one that's always like funny to me.

I'm like, well, there's the problem with like you know, whenever there's anything that's happening publicly, you're living your life publicly, there's always gonna be hate.

Oh yeah, and Wayne said it. Lil Wayne said it a long time ago. I remember he told me, he's like, dog, you, you, you haven't made it until you have haters. You know you're successful the minute motherfuckers start hating on you.

You ever seen Katt Williams' bit on haters? Mm-hmm.

Oh, pull that up. Oh, I bet, I bet it's great.

He's got a fantastic bit on haters. About people complaining about haters. It's the same kind of thing. Have you found it anywhere? You can't say Katt Williams on haters? No, I did, but what I've come— oh, I guess it does say haters. Hold on. Yeah, he's got a whole— I think the bit's titled Haters. Okay, give me some volume.

You gotta get your motherfucking hustle. Understand, niggas is gonna hate you.

Regardless.

Get that out of your head, that fantasy world where niggas ain't hating on you. You gotta be grateful, you need haters. What the fuck is you complaining about? What the fuck do you think a hater's job is? To fucking hate. So let them motherfuckers do they goddamn job. What the fuck is you complaining about? Ladies, if you got 14 women hating on you, you need to figure out how the fuck to get to 16 before the summer get here.

What is you mad about?

Amen. If you got 20 haters, you need 40 of them motherfuckers. What is you complaining about? If there's any haters in here right now that don't have nobody to hate on, feel free to hate on me.

Sit back there and say my hair ain't luxurious when you know it is, bitch.

That's so good. So true, so true.

It comes with the territory. Yeah, this is the job we chose. This is the life we chose. Those, you're gonna get haters.

Totally.

But it's your, you know, it's your obligation to manage the waters. And you, you don't have to dive in and fucking— never swing in their own shit and waddle around with them like pigs.

Totally.

It's not necessary. No, but it's a complicated world.

Never would I, you know.

No. A lot of people do, unfortunately. It is. But it's also, this is a new thing. Like this new thing where people have direct access to everybody like that online. If, you know, people choose to be on social media, like, you have direct access to all kinds of people and they're gonna read your comments, and people know that. Yeah, if you're a person who reads comments, and so they go and attack you. And it's a weird world that a lot of famous people don't know how to navigate. And a lot of people, they get like severe anxiety because they do read that shit, and then they're like holed up in their home by themselves staring at their phone You're in a fucking giant mansion living like a baller. You got a Ferrari. Meanwhile, you're in hell.

Like I said, yeah, if you're not hurting anybody and it's like, you know what I mean? Like, life's good.

Yeah. Yeah, and also you'll feel better if you're not doing that.

Totally. Or they say like, if you do read it and you find any truth in it, like, it's your chance to fix it, right? It's your chance to whatever, or use it as like motivation, you know, like Goggins does. Yeah, even if the shit they're spewing is so false and fairy tale. It's like, still, you know what I mean?

Mm-hmm.

Go, go lift, or go box, or go play drums, or go do whatever you do, you know?

Use it as energy.

That always feels good because, yeah, none of it, none of it really like sits with you, you know?

Well, I suppose too, and I understand haters too. Yeah, I've always said this, that if I was a 15-year-old kid and somebody gave me a Twitter account, I could get a hold of someone like me and talk shit to them, I 100% would.

Oh yeah.

Fuck yeah.

As a kid, like, I don't even know what it would be like because we didn't have it. But I also know, like, from where, you know, punk rock was— has always been very finicky, very, very sensitive, right? You know, the band gets popular, everyone's like, I fucking hate them, they're on the radio, fuck that band, they have fans now, they can act, they can eat, they can fucking— you know what I mean? Pay rent, fuck them. You know, it's like that. You know, skateboarding, which I like, changed my life and raised me. Skateboarding is also— they're very strict, you know, about, about who can call themselves a skater, or, you know, there's just all the— all these things. There's like, when, when all these things should just be celebrated. Like, skateboarding is fucking cool. It's like, some of the coolest people in the world, you know, skateboard. And, and skateboarding's taught most of the world like how to dress properly. And serious. Like, I mean, a lot of rappers basically nowadays just dress like skateboarders. Skateboarders like set it off. Like, they had the best taste from the jump.

How do you think that happened? Well, how did skateboarders develop such a great sense of style, in your opinion? I don't—

I don't know. It's just— it's just one of those things.

Like, even from back in the day, like, why that particular activity would have like a whole like style associated with it.

I mean, I grew up with like huge pants and like t-shirts and, and just Vans, you know, skateboarding, and beanies, you know. That's like— I don't know, but everything from the time skate videos were released, they were secretly— maybe they didn't know about it, but they were teaching everyone what the coolest music was. And at the time, music was so categorized, like you're either a punk rocker, you like country, you like rap, you like that. Skate videos were everything. The illest, best music of every genre. So you— a bunch of skate kids were growing up listening to Operation Ivy and loving The Far Side, you know. So it was like happily confused. They just knew the best of every world. It was different, you know.

It's just interesting that a style of clothing is associated with a physical activity.

Well, then you had Lil Wayne who learned how to skateboard halfway through his career, and I feel like everyone around him looked to him for also style and started dressing like him.

Uh-huh.

You know, so, and some people don't even know. I feel like punk rock and skateboarding— I mean, Playboi Carti wears punk rock clothes. His whole aesthetic is punk rock, you know. Where did he get it from? Got it from punk rock, you know, like it was born there. And I hate gatekeepers, right? I love what he's done with it, and I love that all these new groups of kids that love Cardi and love Ken Carson are— they're dressing like punkers. They might not even know it. They just think they're dressing like, you know, their favorite rapper, but it stems and it's rooted from punk rock and skateboarding.

Wow. Yeah, I can't think of another activity that has a style associated with it like that.

Yeah, there really isn't. Like BMX people, you know, well, they have riders. Yeah, they're wearing pads. I mean, BMX was really cool. I love BMX. But yeah, there's not like a—

there's not like skateboarding style that's associated with—

yeah, and skateboarding and punk rock were like this, right?

Well, it's rebellion, right? Yeah, being an outcast. It's doing something that's either frowned upon or only other people that are like you understand it.

But it could have been, right? Like, skateboarding could have been— well, couldn't have. I can't even say this, like, but like, it's a skateboard. It could have been athletic. It could have been sporty. Yeah, it was from the get-go. It was really— and it was gritty, and it was— it's also one of the hardest things as far as like the amount of falls and injuries you take. Oh, gotta be a tough motherfucker to skateboard.

Yeah, a lot of concussions. Yeah, a lot of guys when they're doing tricks fall on their fucking head.

The board hitting your shins over and over again, breaking arms, breaking legs. It's—

yeah, it's a gnarly sport, especially if you're doing it in these urban environments where people are trying to go down railings.

And yeah, street skating, it's like— it's just whatever you find while you're skateboarding down the street. Yeah, no, pretty cool.

It is interesting that it has a style of clothing and dress associated with it. Yeah, yeah. And it's that it kind of mirrors like punk rock aesthetics.

Yeah, and both the genres are very protective, you know.

Yeah, weird.

It's cool.

It is cool.

But maybe it should be protected. Maybe that's why it's still so cool, you know.

Well, for them, for the people that are protecting it, like, and it's— it means something to them. It's probably their haven from the the standard society, the pressures of fitting in and conforming that they don't want. And so like this thing is like a church to them. It's like sacrif— it's like religious.

I mean, when I was 13, I felt like an outcast, and it was skaters against jocks where I grew up. It was like jocks and you played football, or you were, uh, a skateboarder, which basically you listen to punk rock music, you listen to Faction, you listen to DRI, you listen to whatever, and we looked really different. So we were, we were outcasts. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. Yeah, so we wrap this up.

Yeah, it was amazing, brother.

Always good to see you, man.

So good.

Always good to see you. This documentary, when can people watch it?

It's out on Hulu right now.

Right here, and we're looking at—

it's The Crash. And when I think about it, I have the worst flashbacks.

I've got two on the ground with burns over here.

Get a finger in his neck! The last thing my mom said to me was, "Just play drums." The drums are literally the heartbeat of the musical body.

A lot of people came just to watch him.

He just had this, "Oh, you're gonna get picked up by a band and you will be a star attraction." I told him, "You better get yourself a job, boy." And he said, "No, Dad. I'm gonna go play in a punk rock band and I won't have a plan B." It's fucking rad. Mark and Tom come up to me and said, "Our drummer just left. Would you consider playing? The show starts in an hour." ¡Ay, ay, ay!

It felt effortless. Things were just exploding. That was quite a wild ride.

I was touring with Blink nonstop. I was taking so many pills that I had a security guard whose only job was to watch me sleep and make sure I was breathing. It was all a blur. And then came the crash. Just fire and chaos everywhere. 65% of my body was burnt. 27 surgeries.

Falling from the sky like Icarus probably does something to your head.

I walk in the room, and I don't cry ever, but we cried, bro. Che and Chris were like brothers to me. And then AM passing away a year later. Why am I here when everyone else isn't? I had to ask myself who I was gonna be after this accident.

I could never truly understand what he went through.

I had this burning desire to become the greatest person and father I could be. It changed the whole family, and I feel like brought us closer together.

We loved him trying to cook for us, going on bike rides.

Bike rides. Knowing how close I got to not being here, my appreciation for life is something I can't even explain.

Every hit is him communicating his story to the world.

Dude, he has got a crazy story. One more time.

Wow, that looks awesome.

Thank Thank you, fuck.

Thanks, brother. Yes, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Bye.