Transcript of #2538 - Joe DeRosa New

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Cheers.

Good to see you.

Um, I went through a whole, um, like a series of different coffee machines that I tried out. I tried out one of them that was like this little thing that's like a tea dipper almost, like for an individual cup of coffee. You put the grounds in this little thing. It's a little tiny press.

Okay.

And you boil the water, put it in the coffee cup, and then you sit in there like it's tea, and then you press it. Okay. And it makes like a French press.

Eh.

Yeah.

Eh.

Yeah.

So then I went to an AeroPress. I like that one a lot.

What's an AeroPress?

I use that every day. So with an AeroPress, I boil the water, grind the beans, and then I pour it into this glass tube. And the glass tube has a filter at the bottom of it, like in a, like a mesh, like a steel or an aluminum, some kind of metal mesh. And then that's what it looks like. And so you press down and it makes a cup of coffee real quick. And it's one cup. And so that's what I like, because I was making coffee like I was doing French press for a while. I had a a coffee machine, but the issue is that you're not supposed to really be drinking out of hot plastic. All that shit's plastic. There's plastic, the water goes into plastic, there's plastic here and plastic there. I'm trying to eliminate as much plastic in my life as possibly— as I possibly can.

I'll tell you too, I a couple times in my adult life splurged on, you know, some fucking—

one of them Italian espresso machines.

Yeah, yeah, it grinds the beans every time you're gonna— Those fucking things go sideways on you in a year, and then you're like, I gotta get it fixed, and they're like, yeah, there's a shop, it's 90 minutes north of you, you drive the machine up there. You're just like, fuck this shit, man. So I went back, I just, I have an espresso, and you put the fucking pod in and whatever, but—

There's a company that makes one, I should shout them out, that makes one that's all steel. I think it's called Simply Good Coffee. I follow them on Instagram. I haven't used their machine, but that's all steel. It's an all-steel coffee machine. Okay, which is what you want. But I've got it down to the AeroPress. The AeroPress, to me, very simple, the minimal amount of like parts. It's just a tube, the grind, the grinds, the coffee tastes pure. It's simple. I make one cup of coffee a day.

Here, here is, here is what I miss, because I will drink a lot of coffee if I'm able to. Here's what I miss about like a traditional Mr. Coffee pot of coffee.

Okay.

You set it, it starts doing it in the morning, you wake up, it's already going, you know?

Right.

I get 2 cups hot in the morning, I put it in the fridge, and then in the afternoon when I start feeling sluggish, I got 2 cold cups. And it's just a nice—

it's— so you just want volume?

I love volume.

Then make a French press, it'll taste better. This right here—

but then you got to make it every time.

What do you—

You gotta do one cup at a time.

You don't have a job. You lazy motherfucker. You don't even have a job. You literally talk shit for a living and you're like, "Ooh, making coffee so hard." Someone had to skin a fucking buffalo just to stay warm in the winter.

Yeah.

Just to stay alive. They had to shred the skin off of it with a stone knife and they had to pull it and stretch it and tan it. Put animal brains on it to make sure that it softened up and salt it down.

And guess what? If you would have said to that guy, hey, we got this thing called Mr. Buffalo, it'll just do it real fast, he would have been like, okay, this sucks.

Mr. Buffalo. He would be fucking sitting in his teepee going, bro, Mr. Buffalo's the shit. He'd get fat and lazy. So true.

But yeah, I like to make more than one cup at once. So that thing, that AeroPress.

So easy. You talk about making it hard. This right here, this is an all-metal French press, no plastic parts at all. It's the fucking easiest thing in the world, dude.

So this can make a full pot though?

Yeah.

Okay, well then that's— yeah, I would do this.

This is— and this is not expensive, it's just a steel French press. This is the best-tasting coffee you're ever gonna get because it's got all the oils from the beans, man. You get like the— like the real coffee dorks You know, the filter— something happens in the filter. So in the filter, yes, you remove the grinds, yes, but also you remove some of the flavor.

Yes.

Just a touch.

Yeah, it's funny, man. When I— back when I was— when I was still involved with the sandwich shop, one of the things I learned that I never knew, 'cause you had to take a test to get a food handler's license and all this shit, was I didn't know that food started breaking down the moment you cut it. I didn't know that because I was getting into at the time meal prep and shit. Like, if I cut up, if I chop the tomatoes now, if I chop the carrots now, the cucumbers now, it'll be way easier to just throw a salad together every day. It'll make me eat the good thing because it'll be fast. And then I learned, no, as soon as you cut something, it starts to break down.

Is this just vegetables?

I think it's mainly vegetables. I don't think raw meat is fine or whatever, but vegetables.

That makes sense because the inside's exposed to the air.

But it's gotta be the same principle with coffee beans, I would think, right? Like once they're ground?

That's a good question. Yeah, I think people like to grind them right before they, I always grind them right before I make the coffee, which is easy. I have a grinder. It's a one-step, one-button. I press it, it takes 13 seconds. I count it, it goes, nah. 13 seconds is the exact amount of beans that I want for one strong, I like a strong cup of coffee, one strong cup of coffee with that AeroPress thing. But it's the same thing with a French press. You take it, you just get a determined amount, and you can dial the knob on the grinder. It's so easy. Grinders are so simple. So listen, all you do is you take that ground coffee after it comes into the little cup, you pour it into the bottom of the fucking French press, and then you pour the hot water in. Done. Yeah, that's it. And then you wait 1 minute, and then you push this fucking plunger down, and you drink the best coffee in the world. And it doesn't have any plastic, and it doesn't have any bullshit, and there's no moving parts. Yes, there's nothing. It's just that thing.

And if the grinder breaks, you get another fucking grinder, okay? And grinders don't break. I've never had a grinder break.

But you gotta boil the water first, correct?

Oh my God, are you okay? Are you gonna be okay? You gotta turn the knob on the stove. You gonna be okay? What the fuck is wrong with this guy?

This guy hit a button on the boiler, on the water boiler that you bought.

He's so ridiculous. He's like, whoa, I can't be the water. I gotta boil it. Dude, I get out of bed Get an automatic kettle. You get a kettle. Okay, there's literally— I have one that has a setting that says French press on it. It's a steel kettle. Okay, and it works all electronically, so it's temperature regulated temperature, and it beeps when it's done. Press 200 degrees, and then I press start, and it goes, okay. And when that happens, I pour the water onto the beans.

Well, now we're talking.

Now we're talking.

An electric kettle. I'm thinking I got to put a fucking pot on the stove.

That's even easier. You fucking lazy bitch.

It takes too long.

Dude, I get out of—

it's not laziness.

You're so lazy.

I swear it's not laziness. I wake up with the dread of humanity in my fucking brain. I'm just like, I need a cup of coffee immediately to just start the day and just clear the head. And the longer that takes, the longer I gotta sit in that wake-up anxiety.

I understand.

So, but Now we're talking. You know what I'm gonna get? I'm gonna get a boiling pot that you can set a timer on.

Yeah, they're easy. They're electronic kettles. They sell them online. And they have like settings for tea, settings for this, settings for hot cocoa. You know, it's like 5 or 6 different settings or something like that, depending on the model.

All right.

They're fucking so easy, dude.

You sold me.

Yeah. And it's the best coffee. It tastes good. And I don't have to think, I got a whole one of these really nice machines and it can make an espresso, can make a coffee, can make a latte. It's got a little fucking foam thing that I've never used once. Never, never even thought about using it. Never even thought about steaming milk in my fucking house.

Never.

But I always was thinking, I'm just— it's all plastic. Every time I filled up the water thing, I'm like, this is all plastic. Everything's plastic.

Do you know what I saw though that made me want to get the thing again with the cream steamer? Because I don't put cream in, so I don't have any use for it.

Black coffee, right?

Black coffee.

Black coffee, man.

Always, yeah.

Me too.

Yeah, Tony shits on it.

Of course he does. Tony needs a fucking umbrella in his coffee. He's got a—

He needs an umbrella.

Umbrella, pineapple, a cookie with it. He holds it with one pinky out when he drinks his coffee.

I go, I drink it black. He goes, ah, you fucking hate condiments.

I was like, what are you talking about? I like the taste of coffee. Yeah, I do. I genuinely, genuinely like black coffee.

You know what I saw though that made me want to get the, the foam steamer was not for foam. I, you know, Alton Brown? Yeah, I love Alton Brown. He did a thing, he did a video where he made this thing with eggs and he used the foam steamer to like foam the eggs up. And I was like, this looks fu— I wanna get it just for that, just to do the thing with the eggs.

Interesting.

But then you gotta—

So you're lazy when it comes to making coffee, but you go way out of the way for some foamy eggs.

I'll cook. I'll cook.

You'll use the steamer?

I like to cook.

I'll cook.

There it is right here. Oh, wow.

Look at that, dude.

Wow.

Wow.

He said this is like apparently incredible. It's like 2 eggs, a little cheese.

Interesting.

Interesting. And so you whisk it up like that, and then you add the foam, and the foam cooks it? Is that how he's cooking it, with the foam?

He cooks the eggs with the foamer.

Oh.

So what is in the foamer? Is it just— Hot water?

Yeah.

That's it? Yep. Okay, so this hot water from the steam is cooking his eggs.

That's the egg cooking. Look at that.

Pretty fucking dope.

Look at that.

He's eating— Or you just eat eggs. Fuck's wrong with you? Just crack some fucking eggs. Fry some eggs. What's the problem?

You don't think that looks good?

It doesn't look as good as sunny-side up eggs.

Foamy eggs?

I was looking at it and I was like, fuck those foamy eggs.

Oh, okay.

I want a real egg.

Could you imagine dunking toast in those foamy eggs?

Come on. No, 'cause I don't even eat toast.

Come on. Toast once in a while.

Occasionally.

Yeah.

You know when I get it? With steak tartare. I like those little toast points.

Oh yeah.

You ever get some steak tartare with toast points at J. Carver? You ever go to J.

Carver?

Oh yeah.

Bro.

Of course, yeah, yeah. Bro. What's your favorite spot in Austin to get a meal? Like, is it—

It's impossible to say. There's so many good spots. There's so many good spots. Austin is crazy with the amount of great restaurants, like really high-end restaurants. I've eaten steak at every fucking restaurant in town, and I gotta think the best one is Jeffrey's. Jeffrey's is—

I still haven't gone. I gotta go.

It's perfection. It's perfect. They're all great. Like, I've never had a bad steak at J. Carver's. I've never had a bad steak at Eddie V's. They're all great, but there's something about whatever Jeffrey's is doing I think they got rated like the number 2 steakhouse in the country, something crazy like that.

I got to go to Jeffrey's. I've been dragging my ass. I love Jay Carver. I love—

Jay Carver's amazing.

You know, amazing.

Their steak is different. Jeffrey's steak, you know, like Jay Carver's steak is— he's using one of those Argentine grills, so it's all live fire over wood, delicious flavor.

Yeah, yeah.

But man, there's like another level, like whatever Jeffrey's doing.

Fuck, I go— I love Gary, the bartender at Eddie V's, and he makes killer martinis. I love to go in and get a martini. Shrimp cocktail.

Beautiful.

Yeah, and, and some steak. But I love— I gotta tell you, it's the same owners as J. Carver. I actually think I like the steak at Red Ash a little bit better than J. Carver.

How?

There's just something different about it. I don't, I don't know what the difference in the prep is, but just the steak. And then also having the option of all the Italian foods that you can get with the steak.

Yeah, Red Ash is phenomenal too. Yes, they have another place called, um, the Kimberly. That's— that place is phenomenal too.

Kimberly's very good.

Yeah, there's too many good restaurants. You have a— an abundance of choices here.

It took— it took a minute because when I first moved back, because I was here in 2000 for a year, when I first moved back, you know, I was in New York for so long I forgot, like, Austin is more of a destination city. You have to kind of find the places. And Tommy Pope was like, dude, give me your phone. And he went into my Google Maps and he bookmarked 10 spots and was like, get this here, get this there, get this here. And every spot I was like, okay, now we're rocking and rolling. It was great.

Yeah. Imagine back in the day before the internet, you couldn't just Google like, what's the best steakhouse in Austin? You couldn't. I mean, that's kind of an amazing thing now. You had to be told about a restaurant. Right. You know?

Yeah, yeah. What's, what's tough— I do that in cities when I'm on the road. I'll look up what's the best Italian sandwich in the city. Sometimes it's right, sometimes it's like, you know, restaurants, popular touristy place. Exactly. Sometimes it's just a place that paid for publicity, so they're getting on these lists and it's not accurate. But when you find it, it's great. The internet is a great tool to help find these places. Like you said, it used to just be word of mouth. You just have to say, "What's good?" And now you're depending on some guy's opinion, which is not always the best, but—

Yeah, but there's some certain places. It's like people are your own little Siskel and Ebert for movies, but for restaurants. Like, you've got to find a fat guy who loves food. That guy's going to tell you where the best spots are.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know who knows everything.

There's like East Coast places though that you're just never gonna get anywhere else other than the East Coast. There's certain like kind of small Italian restaurants in particular. There's this place I used to go to when I lived in New Rochelle, Frank and John's. I think it was Frankie and Johnny's. I think that's what it was called. Okay. In New Rochelle, this Italian place. It was so fucking insane. It was so insane.

They made a movie about that. Well, there was a movie called Frankie and Johnny with Al Pacino. And I think it's about that restaurant. I think he works at that restaurant. Really? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, it's got to be a lot of restaurants, right?

But it's called— I'm 90% sure it was in New Rochelle because that's where I lived. I lived in New Rochelle. If it wasn't in New Rochelle, it was in the surrounding areas, like maybe Mount Vernon or something like that. But oh my God, dude, it was so good. When I got my first development deal, my manager thought that I had a gambling problem, but it was really just because I was eating steak and lobster every night.

He's going, where's all your money going?

He's like, what are you doing? You're spending so much money. Do you have a gambling problem? And I was like, no, I'm eating steak and lobster every night, dude. I've been poor my whole life. I'm fucking eating like a king until this shit runs out. I don't even know if it's gonna last, but I'm riding this bitch right into the rocks.

My favorite thing about when I finally got to a point of some financial stability with this crazy career that you go through for a long time without knowing what's next. But my favorite thing was when I could go, I can eat whatever I want now. Like, that was, that was a huge moment to me.

That's one of the biggest. Brian Cowan said that to me once. He goes, the most important— because other than obviously taking care of your family and mortgage and all that stuff, the— after like life necessity, the big change The big change is being able to go to a restaurant and order whatever you want and not think about it, not worry about the bill.

Yeah.

And if you can do that, like, you have real freedom. Like, that's like the big— the first big leap.

Mm-hmm.

And then everything after that is like these little things. It's great. Oh, look, I live in a nice apartment. Oh, look, I have a nice car. Oh, look, I got the shoes that I wanted. Oh, look, that's all fine. Yeah, it's nice. But the weight that's lifted off of you when you don't have to worry about your bills, that's number one. Yeah, that's the big one. Yeah, that's the giant leap. That's the between the two buildings, like, I don't know if this is gonna work out, to we bump. Yeah, okay, I'm gonna be okay. Yeah, now it's just about how hard do I work and what kind of success do I have, but I can feed myself now with no fears, dude.

I actually might have said this to you the last time I was here, I don't remember, but It's the, the, the most profound moment for me in practicing gratitude for, for my life. I swear to God, it's the supermarket. When I check out at the supermarket, I try to remind myself, you just pulled whatever you wanted off the shelf to fill your cart, and you didn't have to worry about, can I pay for this or not? We're checking out and you're paying for your groceries, and it costs what it costs. You know, where I was like, people— there are people that don't have this, man. Remember this.

A ton of people.

It's—

here's the question though. Do you think that there's value in not having that when you're young and then developing that sort of drive and ambition and desire to earn money and get something because you know what it's like to be poor?

Yes.

Or do you think the world would be a far better place if instead of people having to concentrate on necessities like food and shelter, society reaches a point where that is a given and no one ever has to worry about food and shelter, and now it's all about what do you want to pursue and how much energy you put into it? Or do you think that you have to have that struggle?

I think— look, I don't think that that struggle and the transition out of that struggle is ever bad for anybody. I think it builds your spirit and it builds who you are. That said, the other version of it, I don't know because it's just not a thing that we have here.

It's not a thing that people have ever experienced here. And I don't even know if they really experience it anywhere else. I mean, I think there's like forms of socialism, but they all involve oppression. They all involve government overreach. Any real socialist system always involves like serious restrictions on what you can and can't do.

I will tell you this, and this might be a byproduct of the culture we live in because we don't have it. I will say I— there is a noticeable difference to me between people I am friendly with that grew up with money and people that I know that grew up that didn't have it.

Right. But is that because of our society?

That's my question.

This is the question that I have, like, is it necessary that that has to be your struggle in order to develop the kind of discipline that you need to be successful in life? Or is it just our society is fucked up and that desperation that we're putting into people, you're just making the motivation different, like you're enforcing the idea of greed because people become selfish because no one was looking out for them and they have a chip on their shoulder, all that shit. But you don't necessarily have to have that. To have interest in pursuing something to the best of your abilities.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's a tough thing to define. It really is. I think, um, I think there's bonuses to both, but I also think too, in, in, in the socialist society thing, hey, isn't it great if you can go, hey man, um, I'm a waiter and I'm able to live a normal life and buy a house and, and, and be normal, you know, whatever.

Yeah, but that's not socialist, that's just a We're fucked in terms of like the amount people earn versus what you can buy, right, versus like the 1950s. The 1950s, you know, the way a person could make a living and feed an entire family off of one paycheck, it was, it was way easier. Yeah, it was a lot easier.

Yeah, well, it always makes me laugh because one of my favorite TV shows of all time is All in the Family, right? And the whole thing with All in the Family was supposed to be that they were kind of struggling. Like Archie was a cab driver and they didn't have a lot of money, whatever. You look at that fucking house they lived in, you're like, that house would be $10.3 million now. They're living pretty fucking good.

It's a nice house, right? It's all clean and nice inside.

It's got two floors.

Yeah, the guy's a cab driver.

Yeah, yeah. So it's a tough, uh, it's a tough thing. But, uh, as far as the society we live in personally, I think it's better to have known what nothing is and then go to appreciating what you do have?

I don't know, because I've never— I've never grown up any other way. But I wonder if you have a con— if you have conscientious parents and you're a young kid and, you know, your dad just sits you down and tells you, hey buddy, you can be whatever you want, but you're gonna have to fucking put in the work. Like, there's only one way out of this thing, and nobody— nobody rides for free. And if you do ride for free, you're gonna be depressed. Yeah. If somebody gives you everything that you have, those are the people that are the most aimless. The rich kids that I've met that have no— like, they've had money their entire life, like their parents just give them a trust fund so they don't have to work and they're worth like a ton of money, they're all sad.

Right.

They're all sad, then they have— they're all super insecure, they all act real weird.

Yeah, I know one or two people that had trust funds, grew up like that, but still worked their asses off because again, you're saying it's what the parents—

you know, I think a big part of that, right, is what the parents are telling you.

There's all this talk now of nepo babies and all that stuff. I was good friends years ago with Eden Brolin. She's Josh Brolin's daughter, and she was very close with her dad. I remember she was in my house one day in LA, and she's like, I'm not supposed to tell anybody, my dad's going to be Thanos in the Marvel movies. And I was like, that's fucking crazy, right? So like, But she— dude, she worked for every fucking thing she— I became friends with her because she was a hostess at The Stand in New York. Like, she always had regular jobs. She plays in a band now. She does some acting, but she is not in a situation where her dad put her wherever. And I think it's because they're very close, but I think it was because she was just raised in a way where he's like, you're going to earn your shit and, you know, and you're going to do your thing. And she's an amazing person. Like, there was none of that— none of that, my dad's famous. An uncomfortable arrogance.

But he's a cool guy. He's a very normal guy.

I never met him.

He's a very nice guy. Yeah, very, very smart and very normal. Like, you can hang out with, talk, and jokes around. He's like, he's very present. Yeah, and there's, there's a lot of people like that that you think of, you know, you think of actors as all being these fucking aloof weirdos who live in this bizarre liberal, like, progressive leftist bubble, and a lot of them are. There's a giant number that are, but man, there's a ton of like really solid, cool people that are actors. Like Billy Bob Thornton.

Yeah.

Cool as fuck, man.

He seems awesome.

So cool. He actually got me this shirt. Shout out to my boss.

That's awesome.

I said, nice shirt, man. And so he hooked it up.

I'd love to meet him.

He's great.

I'd love to meet him.

He's great. There's a lot of those guys that are really great. Woody Harrelson's fucking great.

I was just gonna say.

McConaughey's great.

I became friendly with Woody and his wife through Tony.

He's so nice.

He's the fucking best. They're both amazing. Yeah, they're like— he's, he's so, so normal and cool, man.

Yeah, like, so, so cool and present, has zero ego. He's just always chill and hanging out, always like super friendly and nice to everybody. Woody's so nice.

He, he, he said a thing to me the first time I ever hung out with him. He came to Kill Tony, and we were drinking after the show, and we had a great time. And at the end of the night, he just goes— and Tony had plugged my special at the beginning of the show or whatever. And at the end of the night, and I mean, we'd had a few. We were in Mitzi's. We were all kind of just getting into that, swaying around. You know? And I was like, "It was great to meet you, man." And he goes, he goes, yeah, man, it's fun tonight. And he goes, I'm gonna watch your special. And I go, thanks, man. And he goes, I never promised you a rose garden. And I was like, yeah, that's the name. And he's like, I'm gonna watch. I'm like, this fucking guy remembered the name of my special from a plug 5 hours ago. And I was like, that's fucking awesome, man. Like, what a fucking—

this is a good dude.

Yeah, what an awesome dude.

Yeah, they exist, man. You know, there's a lot of them out there. You'd be shocked. Matt Damon and Ben Affleck, very cool guys. Like, talk to them on and off air. I've talked to Matt before. I actually randomly ran into Matt Damon a few years back in Italy at a restaurant where he was seated under a picture of him. Hahaha. So I'd already met him before at the UFC, and then we were in Italy. I was with my family and he was with his family, and he sat down We were already sitting down and we were right across. I go, oh, look at that picture of Matt Damon. And then literally Matt Damon walks in and sits right under the picture of Matt Damon. And I go, hey, Matt. And he's like, hey, what are you doing here? Gave me a big hug. And I was like, but this is so meta.

Did you ever see a—

So strange to like look at a photo of a guy on the wall and go, oh, I know him. Yeah, that's Matt Damon. And then he comes in and sits right there right after you say it.

That's so funny.

What are the odds?

That's so funny.

What are the odds?

Did you ever see, uh, did you ever see Autofocus, the Bob Crane movie?

Yes.

With Greg Kinnear.

What a crazy movie, man.

I love that movie.

That movie's crazy. Do you think the guy killed him, his buddy?

Yes. Yeah. I do. I do.

It seems like it, right? I do.

I think so. But that's— when they show how he would get laid on the road.

Crazy. He would wait for the reruns of Hogan's Heroes to be on TV and then he'd sit in front of the television.

He knew when they were on. And there's that scene where he tells the bartender, he goes, "Could you put on channel 22?" Whatever. She puts it on and he's sitting under it, and then this hot chick comes up and she goes, "Oh my God, is that you?" And he goes, "Oh, how embarrassing." I don't even— Oh my God.

Well, back then, you gotta think Hogan's Heroes. First of all, how much has society changed and how much more sensitive have people gotten when you think that Hogan's Heroes was a show about a Nazi concentration camp and it was a comedy? Comedy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was a comedy. Yeah, it was a comedy about prisoners of war that were captured by the Nazis.

Yeah, yeah. Then they made like— they had like lovable Nazis.

Lovable. They made them like bumbling buddies. Nobody died. The show was on for like 5 years. Nobody died.

Nope. Did anybody—

how many seasons did Hogan's Heroes go?

68 episodes, 6 seasons.

God damn.

168 episodes, 6 seasons, and no one died. They didn't kill anybody. How many people died on Hogan's Heroes? Run that through our AI sponsor Perplexity.

Yeah.

How many people died during World War II in a Nazi prison?

Not a one. Not a one. Nobody got tortured.

In 6 years and 148 episodes.

Yes.

Yeah.

It's so insane. Do you think— They get into a little bit of this in the movie, but they play it down. But do you think there was a lot of pushback? Do you think there was, like, they were like, "What are you, fucking crazy? We can't make this show. This is nuts." Or was it just, "Eh." In the movie, was there pushback?

I don't remember. There's a little bit where he's like, "It's kind of crazy." Almost nobody dies on screen or as a plot event in Hogan's Heroes. It was a broad comedy, and the regular heroes, Hogan, Klink, Heroes: Klink, Colonel Klink, Schultz, the fucking Nazi guard. He's a hero. And the prisoners survived the series. The notable fictional death of Major Wolfgang Hochstetter, who was reportedly killed during an Allied bombing raid in The Commandant Dies at Dawn. The title is misleading. Colonel Klink is not killed. So the practical answer is one named recurring character with occasional unnamed wartime casualties implied rather than shown. Yeah, nobody died, obviously.

That's—

Clink was like, remember, "I see nothing." He saw nothing. He was always like, "I gotta get outta here. I see nothing." Like they're all plotting fucking devious things to try to get back at the guards.

And he was like, "I see nothing." It's like having a show where the Klan kidnaps people and then the Klan is like kind of funny.

The Black guys are like breakdancing. The Klan's having a good time with them.

Yeah. The closest I've ever seen to it is Tarantino in Django when he makes the Klan scene funny. When they're all kind of dumb. Do you remember that scene?

God, I don't remember that scene, unfortunately.

There's a scene with the Klan, and they're— I think Jonah Hill has a cameo in it, and they're all kind of dumb, and it's like funny dialogue with the Klan. You're like, I don't know how he just pulled this off, but he did.

It's the scene with the bags where they're trying to talk about the, like, my wife made mine.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, my point was that If you go back to that year, like what year was Hogan's Heroes? Was it the '70s?

'65 to '71 is when it aired.

'65 to '71, okay. Being on television was a very new thing.

Oh yeah.

Very new thing. A sitcom star was a very new thing. It was only at the most, what, 2 decades old? How old is The Honeymooners? What year was that?

Honeymooners are the early '50s, I believe. Right? I think. And it was a spin-off of the Gleason variety hour, whatever the fuck that was called. Yeah, it's a sketch they did.

'55?

Yeah, it's only on TV for a year. What?

Yeah, what year did it start?

It says it originally aired from '55 to '56. Wow.

That's the thing.

The Honeymooners, there's only one season?

So I have both Honeymooners box sets because I love the show.

39 episodes in one season.

That's a lot.

The main box set is called The Classic 39, because that's all the episodes that weren't sketches on the show or anything like that. He did 39 episodes, and he was like, "We did it. It's done." It's like, nobody does that now.

Right.

You know, Seinfeld did it, and Ricky Gervais does it. He does 3 seasons, and he goes, "That's it." They did 39, and it was a massive success, and they were like, "You have to do more of these." And he's like, "Nope." We did it.

We're good.

We have nothing left to say. Really? Yeah. And then they did reunion shows and shit, but like, that was it. That's wild. That's wild.

He went on to do all kinds of other shit though. He went— oh yeah, he was in The Hustler in '62. He played a serious role.

Minnesota Fats.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, he was, he was like the only guy that's ever been in a movie about a pool player that was a real pool player. Mm-hmm. Like, he could fucking play. Like, you watch him play in the movie, like like, oh, okay, that's a real pool player. Yeah, like the way he strokes the ball, he strokes the ball like a pro. Got— he could run, like, I think he ran like 75 balls in straight pool. It might be 100, but like the 100 balls is like the number. If you could run 100 balls in straight pool, people are like, that guy's legit, he's— he can run 100 balls. Yeah, you know, and he could do that.

Gleason was an incredible—

what's that, Jamie?

It's kind of interesting about the show, the The sketches were over 35 minutes or more, and the writers felt restricted by the half-hour format.

Wow.

So that partially had something— also had a contract issue too.

So they were— they felt restricted, but because they didn't have enough—

they had one more time to— they said it was too slapstick and fast-paced, according to TV Guide. Huh.

Look at this. He had $7 million left on his contract in 1956. Which is crazy money. The excellence of the material could not be maintained. I had too much fondness for the show to cheapen it. Wow. I mean, that is baller shit back then. Like, that is not something people were doing back then.

Or he's— he just got lazy because he had so much money. He's like, yeah, he had it.

CBS was gonna give him a 3-year contract for what would have been $132 million today. He was gonna get close to like a million dollars an episode. Wow.

Christ, a million an episode back then?

It was close to that. No, no, no, no, no, like What today is. I forget where it was on here, but—

But even that's like kind of unheard of. When Seinfeld, when it was announced they were all going to get a million an episode, I remember that was like groundbreaking. It was like, this has never been done before, right? Whatever. This guy was offered the equivalent of that back in '56 and said, nah, I'm good.

Well, he probably already had so much money, and he was drunk all the time. Yeah, that guy drank all the time. Yeah, he was so fun.

Did you ever watch his final interview? Yes, yes, yeah, he's in the tracksuit, just chain-smoking.

Oh yeah, he didn't give a fuck. Yeah, tracksuit, chains. Wow, he's making $839,000 now, the equivalent.

But he had to pay for production costs, it says.

Oh, that's different.

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

Art Carney received $3,500 a week, which is $42,000 a week now. Audrey Meadows, $2,000 a week. Wow, women got fucked over back then.

No, but Jackie Gleason Enterprises was running the show, so I mean.

Yeah, he fucked her over is what I'm saying. Art Carney got fucking almost twice as much as her.

Goddamn.

She was his wife.

Only one person got residuals.

What?

Yeah, reportedly only cast member to receive residuals when they were being broadcast.

Oh, because they had to change that shit later. Yeah, they, you know, that's where those strikes and the writers union and the SAG, all that stuff really plays a part because you get— I got residuals for NewsRadio and they're not what you think they are. Like, people think it's gonna like change your life, you never have to work again. That's only for the people like Jerry Seinfeld that own the show. Yeah, the regular people that get residuals, it's nice, it's a good thing, but it makes sense. They're showing the fucking show over and over and over again. It's still your work.

Yeah.

You know, it does make sense. You're reselling it, so it's not the original deal that you had to put it on NBC for one hour. Now it's like a thing where you're gonna sell it again, and so all the actors get paid again. It makes sense.

Dude, I've told you this before. I'm gonna tell you again so it's documented. And I know you're not that interested, but you need to fucking keep acting, dude. You're fucking great on that show. That is not easy. I, in my opinion, multicam sitcom, despite it being the easiest job in show business as far as payment time versus reward, it is the hardest type of acting because it is an acting where you have to land jokes and gags and you have to make it convincing. That is very, very, very hard to do. You are so fucking good on that show. I, I, I'm— and I watch NewsRadio all the time still. I told you last time I was here, it got me through— was one of the things that got me through COVID was doing news radio front to back. You need that. You need to keep that.

That's very nice of you. Thank you very much. But I think your idea of what's very hard to do and my idea what's very hard to do are two totally different things. Well, because the acting on a sitcom is easy as fuck. Okay, so it's boiling water. You know what?

You know what?

This is Joe DeRosa in the green room of the Mothership. You know what? How many times do you have to say that in a fucking night?

I go to that green room, you're all fucking—

They all go after you, dude.

You walk funny, you look diseased. It's just not stuff.

It's fucking easy. If you're a comic, it's easy. If you're used to doing stand-up in front of a live audience, that's a lot harder. And then the acting, they give you, especially if you're working with great people, You know, I was doing scenes with Dave Foley and Maura Tierney and all those. They were amazing. The cast was incredible. Kathy— excuse me, Vicki Lewis, Andy Dick, Candy Alexander, but I will say even Root, they were incredible.

I will say this to you though, the fact that what you just said, it's easy, is why I think you should be doing it. I think you are a natural fucking actor, and I think you're— you—

I just pretend, dude.

It doesn't—

yeah, listen, it's not Daniel— I've never done Daniel Day-Lewis acting. Acting. That's like the real acting. Val Kilmer acting, right? In Tombstone. That's real acting.

I think you could.

I don't want to do it. Well, that's interesting.

That's my life.

If I had another life, I love movies. I fucking love movies. You know what's a great show?

What's that?

Great show. It's called Lucky. It's on Apple. It's about— what is that lady's name with the big eyes?

First episode.

She's really beautiful but very unusual looking. What is her name again? Anna Taylor-Joy. Is that her name? I think so. She was in The Queen's Gambit. She fucking killed it in The Queen's Gambit.

Anya.

Anya Taylor-Joy.

From The Witch, right?

Is she in that too?

She's— I think that was her first movie, was The Witch.

I didn't watch The Witch. No one in my family will watch it with me. I want to watch it. I try. I'm a giant Robert Eggers fan. I think he fucking murdered Nosferatu. I think it was the best vampire movie by far of all time.

Nosferatu was dope. The Lighthouse was dope.

You've seen The Werewolf? The Werewolf trailer that's coming out?

Okay.

Don't you okay me, you son of a bitch.

I have, I have.

Don't you okay me, you son of a bitch.

Here's what I will say.

What the fuck are you gonna say?

I love Robert Eggers. I'm not knocking it. But it's the fourth movie he's released. We're in the trailer. I see black and white footage and a lot of people twitching. And I'm like—

That's what you need. That's what I'm looking for.

I'm like, all right.

I just—

come on, I don't know if it's gonna be different.

This looks phenomenal. Yeah, it's phenomenal. Of course he's twitching, he's turning into a werewolf. There's— fuck is wrong with you, DeRosa?

There's no world where it'll be a bad movie.

No world doesn't exist. That guy knocks it out of the park, A+ every movie. The Witcher, The Northman, have you seen that?

I did.

Fuck, you didn't love that?

I didn't love it.

Get out of this room.

I didn't—

no, go home.

You stop.

Go home. I'll tell everybody about your special after you leave.

You son of a bitch, how could you not like The Northman?

I wanted more battles. I want it more like—

it was perfection, an A+.

You know what took me out?

He might be my favorite director of all time.

You know what took me out of The Northman?

What, uh, you being a pussy?

No, take it easy. Fucking— no, I'll tell you what took me out of it. Nicole Kidman having full plastic surgery in 1650 or whatever. It was taking me out of it. It was fucking me up.

Let me see what she looks like back then.

Any Taylor Is she?

She's in The Northman? Of course she is. She rules. She rules.

But I love— I think Eggers does great work. Or Eggers, excuse me, does great work.

Oh dude, he's the best. I think he's my favorite director of all time next to Tarantino. Tarantino is always going to be number one.

He's—

but this guy's— because I feel like there's like levels to movies, and I think Tarantino is— he's the undeniable peak of the mountain, and then everything else is pretty dope.

The, uh, here's Scorsese.

He's got some murder, he's got some killers.

Scorsese.

But a bunch of those guys have a few lemons. You know what I mean?

You're gonna have some lemons when you— I mean, Scorsese's output is incredibly high, and it's like, of course you're gonna have a few duds.

Well, this is one of the reasons why Tarantino's the GOAT, is 'cause he figured out how to have no lemons. Other than Death Proof, which Tony loves. We argue about it all the time. So I don't see Plastic Surgery Nicole Kidman there.

They showed her for a second.

Yeah, she looked good.

I don't think she's in the trailer a lot. That was—

let me see, Nicole Kidman. And that was a long movie. That was a long time ago, this movie, right? What year was this?

Uh, it's probably the Northman, pre-COVID, I think.

I think so. I think it's like 2017 or '18. Does it say, Jamie?

I'm amazed with Robert Eggers that he gets wide release theatrical releases with the types of movies he does.

I think it's because they sell.

I—

they fucking sell, dude. I mean, they're so good. They're so good. People love them and they go to see them. I mean, that's— it's really that simple.

It's—

what year was it, Jimmy?

4 years ago.

Oh really? That was only 4 years ago? Oh shit, it's post-COVID.

Crazy.

Um, see if you could find a photo of Nicole Kidman from that.

And I'm obviously not saying the movie's bad because Nicole Kidman had plastic surgery, but it did— it does take me out of it when I see somebody doing a period piece with See, that doesn't look like plastic surgery to me.

She looks totally normal.

Maybe it's just because I remember.

Maybe you just want her to have plastic surgery because you're a hater.

I'm not shitting on Nicole Kidman.

You seem to be a little bit of a hater. She looks perfect.

She's got a, yeah.

What are you saying?

A little work.

She looks perfect.

A little work, a little work there.

I don't see work, dude. I see a beautiful face. You son of a bitch. Fuck is wrong with you?

Don't you go.

So down there when she's with Anya Taylor-Joy, right there, that's her right there. So that, that looks a little fillery, unfortunately. That look I think has gone away though. I think ladies are realizing that nobody likes it. No, the filler face.

Did you see the trailer for this thing, The Neuromancer?

No. Uh, so what's this?

Nerds are super pumped. This is like the story where like, oh, I've heard The Matrix shit came out of this. So I, it's gonna be a TV show actually. It's not even a movie. Wait, how do you mean The Matrix came out of like, uh, Jackin' In and stuff like that.

Yes, who wrote that book?

Uh, off the top of my head, from 1984, William—

William Gibson.

Gibson.

Yeah, this is supposed to be a movie that people were concerned was like impossible to trans— or a book rather, that people were concerned with impossible to translate into a film correctly.

Okay.

I don't know why, because I haven't read the book, but I've read that argument like there's no way you're ever going to really nail this.

You know, it's just jacked in. And now he's like in some new space, which I don't— again, I haven't read it either. I don't know— spoiler alert or anything, so I don't know much about it. But people are very pumped that they attempted this and it looks cool.

Hmm, but, but wait a second. So did The Matrix just take all of its ideas from this?

No, here, I'll find out what I mean when I said that.

Okay.

Lucky— watch this show Lucky. It's on Apple TV. It only has 7 episodes and it's only gonna be one season, I think.

I just started watching The Shards, which I'm feeling.

The term cyberspace came out of that book, and then like, there you go, a consensual hallucination experienced daily by billions of authorized— The Matrix actually itself, I think, came out of there.

Ooh, well, that's coming, right? That's coming. He was ahead of his time. He figured it out.

So now this is a weird thing, okay? And this is the thing you notice with these Directors that break through and do an amazing first movie, and then it's kind of followed by a lot of ho-hum stuff.

You mean The Matrix?

Yeah, well, the Wachowskis— The Matrix was this cultural phenomenon, it changed everything, and blah blah blah blah. Their movies after that, except for maybe V for Vendetta, none of them really ever lived up to that. So now we're seeing this, and I'm like, well, did they just get all the great ideas for The Matrix from this other thing, and then they made a great movie, and then that's why they were never able to kind of hit that again? Every Matrix Matrix sequel is terrible.

They're literally jacking in the same exact way, through the back of the head. Yeah, it's the same thing.

And they're saying the term The Matrix came out of the—

this—

that's crazy.

Like, I thought they made that up.

You know, they got sued too because some lady wrote, um, I think it was a graphic novel. It might have been a short story or graphic novel, I forget what it was, but she wrote a story and brought it to them apparently.

Well, she also said she wrote The Terminator for both.

So is she just a kook?

That's a kook.

A manuscript titled The Third Eye from the 1980s. And she— yeah, I saw the story. I remember when—

yeah, let me, let me tell you why she's a kook.

Harlan's story—

well, because he mentioned The Terminator. Harlan Ellison wrote an episode of The Outer Limits called Demon— it was called Demon with the Glass Hand. Harlan Ellison sued James Cameron when The Terminator came out, and he goes, that's my fucking story. I did it on The Outer Limits in the '60s, and Harlan Ellison got paid. And they were like, yeah, it's actually kind of the same thing, huh? So this lady did not write The Terminator in the '80s.

Well, it could be multiple influences, but it could be multiple inspirations, right? It could be.

The worst one is, and I'm a fan of the guy—

'Cause if, let's just say, we're not accusing anyone of plagiarizing, but we're saying if someone was gonna plagiarize, why wouldn't they plagiarize from multiple sources? You can't just say, just because he stole a giant chunk of it from that one episode of a show, that doesn't mean that he didn't steal a bunch of other stuff. And I'm not saying anybody stole anything.

Right, right.

I don't think James Cameron stole a goddamn thing.

I don't think he stole anything, I think he saw it—

I think it, he might not have even seen it. There's a lot of parallel thinking when it comes to this concept of AI and robots being like people, and they go— it's in Battlestar Galactica. Sure, sure. You know, I mean, it's like there's a lot of that where people become robots. It's in the original Alien movie, 1979, remember?

Right.

There's a fucking— an artificial intelligence that is their guy.

Yeah.

That they don't know is a robot until it has a— I think they beat it to death. Frank, how'd they find out that it's a robot? It's, um, I think they kill it. They knock its head off. That's how they find out it's a robot.

Blanket on the act. It's, it's, um, oh God, the guy's a great actor. He's one of my favorites and I'm blanking on his name.

So this is '79 that they did that, right? So that's the Terminator. Like, these concepts have been around for a long time. The concepts of artificial intelligence taking over.

I think it was more the plotline of this This robot comes back.

Oh, in time?

It was something like that, yeah. Oh! And I don't think James Cameron stole it either, 'cause there's no other evidence of him ever swiping something. But I do think, like, we all do this thing where we see something, we don't remember, it goes into the subconscious, and maybe you go, "I got a great idea," and you're not realizing, "Oh, actually, that's a thing I saw when I was 10." He's pretty intensely creative, like, and original.

I don't imagine that he would do that.

I would hope not.

I don't think so.

But Harlan Ellison did win the case.

Interesting. I wonder how much he got paid. How much did Harlan Ellison get for that lawsuit? Did they disclose it, or did they pay him just to shut the fuck up?

Well, Ellison is— I mean, he is everybody's— everybody loves sci-fi. He's their favorite sci-fi guy. Really? He is the guy.

Bold statement.

He's the guy. Ellison is the guy. You'd love— you should read up on Harlan Ellison. You would love—

I probably should. There's not enough time to consume all the things. Yeah, there's so many things to consume. Um, dispute ended out-of-court settlement.

There you go.

Rather than a court ruling on what— so they just paid him to shut the fuck up. So they probably gave him a fat check.

Yeah, there it is. Soldier and Demon with the Glass Hand.

Involved combatants from a future war arriving in the present, including a relentless futuristic soldier sent to kill. Ellison argued that The Terminator borrowed this core setup. Commentators often mention his Outer Limits episode Demon with a Glass Hand, but Ellison himself reportedly said his principal claim concerned Soldier, not that episode. So it seemed like it wasn't— maybe there was more than one thing.

Hmm.

Either way, you could— you know, it's like every werewolf movie is a guy gets bit by a werewolf.

Sure.

You know, I mean, sure, you could say no one can make a werewolf movie anymore because The Wolfman, because you're all stealing from The Wolfman.

Well, I think the difference is that's werewolf mythology, right?

Overall, that's true.

Versus, you know what I mean?

That's true. Yeah, of course. Yeah, I mean, that's— yeah, but a bad example. Yeah, it's not an original story.

But you would love Harlan Ellison because he was just— I'm sure my favorite story of his is he talked about when he was in college and he goes, my literary professor said I had no talent, so I got expelled because I punched him in the throat. He's a maniac. Maniac.

How many bad teachers have ruined a kid's future by telling them they have no talent?

Yeah. Right?

How many?

It's nuts.

So many. There's so many stories like that. So many stories of some shitty teacher.

It's nuts. Did you have— when you were getting into— well, Wolf, how old were you when you said, I'm gonna go do comedy, I'm not gonna do any of the shit that I studied in school, I'm gonna actually—

I barely studied in school. I only went to school because I didn't want to be a loser. Literally, I went to UMass Boston, like the continuing education program, so I didn't have to take my SATs. I only went for 3 years. I was wasting my time, and the whole time I was doing it, I was fighting, and that was my primary concern. That was what I was thinking about, and I was teaching at Boston University.

Oh, you mean like MMA fighting? Kickboxing. Okay, gotcha.

Kickboxing and taekwondo. Okay. And that was my concern. I really was— but you tell people, you know, oh, what do you do? Oh, I'm a taekwondo fighter. Fucking loser. You fucking loser. I'm totally— I would not tell people what I did. I'm going to school. I'm going to UMass Boston. That was literally— that's what I was doing.

Oh my god, that's so fucking funny, dude.

I was a 4-time state taekwondo champion. I fought all over the country.

I didn't know that. Yeah, I knew you've had fighting in your background. I didn't know you were a champ and stuff.

Yeah, I was really good when I was young at taekwondo. I was really good.

What made you switch gears from that to go into comedy?

Well, first of all, there's no future in it. There was no future. I tried out for the Olympics in '88. I made it to the nationals. I won the states and I went, made it to nationals. I made it to the third fight in the nationals and I lost. That was in Miami in '88. And then I realized like I wasn't as enthusiastic about it anymore. Oh yeah, you got extra cigarettes?

Thank you.

Look at that. Look at that, here.

Yeah, hey.

I knew you might want some.

Leave them there for everybody. Yeah, yeah. And then I was also getting brain damage, and I was very aware of that. I would lie in bed at night after sparring, and my head would be ringing, just throbbing, just boom, boom, boom, boom.

Jesus Christ.

I was like, I'm doing this for free. There's no money in this. I'm not making any money.

Holy shit.

Yeah, I was sparring a lot, especially kickboxing sparring. I was getting hit a lot. It was a lot of like kickboxing wars. And it was just not worth it. It was just not. And I was realizing, like, I got to get out before I become that guy at the gym. Because there were some guys that I had met, and then I'd watch them deteriorate a little during the time that I knew them and I was training with them. I watched their personalities change. I watched them get, like, slower.

Mm-hmm.

Like, I could see their movement was compromised because they got brain damage. They've been knocked out a few times. And I was realizing, like, oh, this is a real problem, and no one seems to be thinking about it. Everyone's like pretending it doesn't exist because they just want to be a tough guy and they just want to fight and win. And it becomes the thing you do, and the thing you do is the only thing you know. And if that thing is bowling, then you bowl every night, you know. If that thing is golf, then you golf every day. If that thing is fighting, you're fighting all the time.

Yeah.

And it was— by the time I was— and I was also realizing there's no future in this. I'm not gonna ever have any money. I'm always gonna be poor. I'm always going to be like wondering where my next paycheck's coming from. This is— there's no money in this. And there was no UFC back then. And I got talked into doing stand-up by my friends. That's literally how it started. This episode is brought to you by Black Rifle Coffee, the only coffee we drink here at the JRE Studios. America's 250th birthday celebration may be over for some brands, but not for Black Rifle Coffee. They've celebrated America since their founding in 2014 and continue supporting the communities that make America strong. Last year, they eliminated $34 million $1 billion in veterans' medical debt. That's real relief to families who served our nation. And this year they're doing it again, aiming to eliminate even more. Beyond financial support, Black Rifle lives its mission. Every month they send their employees to support initiatives by the Boot Campaign, Folds of Honor, and others, giving back to veterans, first responders, and their families. Every bag, box, or can directly supports that mission.

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And then that was it. I mean, you moved fairly fast, right, through stand-up?

Well, um, see, I did Half Hour Comedy Hour, MTV Half Hour Comedy Hour. I was like, oh, 5 years in, 5 years in the stand-up. And then I got got on the television show Hardball, the show I did with Jim Brewer.

Yeah.

Did that, flew out here, or flew out to California rather, and that got canceled after 6 episodes, and then I got NewsRadio right away. So I only auditioned for 2 shows ever.

Wow.

Hardball and NewsRadio, and I got both of them. It was the luckiest streak of all time. No acting class. I took a couple of acting classes that I had to take when Disney gave me the money the first first development deal. They said, do you know how to act? I'm like, I don't know. Why are you guys giving me money? It made no sense. They just wanted to put me on a sitcom. And, you know, this was in the '90s when sitcoms were like Roseanne and Seinfeld. It was a gold mine. If you could find a personality that you thought was someone who would click on a sitcom that people would want to watch, you know, every Tuesday night or whatever it was, they were— they were willing to pay you a lot of money. And then all of a sudden I was out in LA, but it was never a desire of mine. So because it wasn't a desire of mine, I didn't get nervous. Like, I didn't get nervous during auditions. I was not an— it was not a thing where I'm like, this could change my life, this could be it. It was like, what am I doing here?

Yeah, what is this? What am I doing here?

It's— it's— you're, you're good at it. That's what you're fucking doing there, man.

It's not hard, dude. It's again, it's not real acting. It's not, you know, Marlon Brando. It's just, you're just pretending that this thing is happening in the newsroom. It's not hard. It's fucking easy. I mean, in the meantime, I'm doing jiu-jitsu. I was still sparring back then. So I'd go to the Jet Center and kickbox and spar. And so I'd go to work, I'm like, this is so easy. This is so easy compared to standup and kickboxing.

And did you notice when you said you were, you were noticing damage happening because of your head throbbing and ringing, whatever, did you notice any other effects or did you cut it off before any effects could actually, you know, like, like actual things that were affecting you?

No, I didn't notice anything like I was compromised or I couldn't think well or I was forgetting things. It wasn't like that. I think I cut it off before I got that bad, but I definitely got some brain damage, 100%. And I think it plays a part of my impulsiveness and my I, you know, I like scary things. I like things that make me nervous. I like things that are really hard to do, and I think that might be part of that, right? Is that I got rattled a bunch of times in my formative years. Yeah, because from 15 to 21, who knows how many times I got hit in the head. Yeah, a lot.

You're— we're very different in that way. You're a guy that I think very much likes a the challenge, the conquering the challenge, you know, you know.

Well, it keeps me sane. That's what keeps me sane. I think you make your— the voluntary things that you engage in that are way more difficult than the rest of your life, it makes the rest of your life easier because these hard things that you do voluntarily, voluntary adversity, you force yourself to do hard things all the time. So then when other things that are seemingly hard come up, you're like, ah, this ain't shit compared to a cold plunge. This ain't shit. I just did a workout, a hypoxia workout. And so it's that I have a box in my studio that goes to— it takes all the air out, so it puts you at the equivalent of 15,000 feet above sea level. And you do this interval training, so you do sprints on the AirDyne machine, you get off of that and you do these kettlebell cleans and presses or swings, and you get off of that and then and you do the sled and you push the sled, or you do backwards on the sled, and it's got varying resistance, and you do them in these 50-second, 40-second, and then 30-second sprints. So like, everything else is easy.

Goddamn, dude, I'm just— I can't. I admire it. I admire the shit out of it.

Well, it's just, it's— for me, I think everybody should do something hard. It keeps— it keeps me sane. For me, I need it. I don't know, you know, I'm not other people. I don't, I don't pretend to know how they feel, but I know how I feel if I don't exercise regularly. I have more anxiety. I don't feel comfortable. I don't feel good. I'm more irritable. I don't like it. I don't like that feeling. When I am like, when I work out really hard and I do the things that I'm supposed to do, I feel great. I feel friendly. I feel happy. I feel light. I feel like life is easy.

Yeah, it's a thing. I'm not blowing smoke. It's a thing I've noticed about you. You're a very, I would even say happy-go-lucky kind of guy. Like, you're very friendly. You're always in a very good mood. I've very rarely seen you, and I see you frequently now at the club, very rarely seen you come in where you're like, "Eh, fuck." Like, I don't think ever, to be honest with you. And it's, I guess, everything you're saying. Like, it puts you in—

That's a choice. It's a choice to feel like that. That don't do you any good unless you're trying to do something with that. Fuck this. Unless you've got some shit you have to get done that's hard and you want to have this attitude where you're going to attack it like, fuck this. Like, regular life. Like, why? Why? Why? Why upset?

Why? Why?

You're not in Gaza, right? What are you doing? You're not in Ukraine hiding in a fucking bunker. Like, what are you talking about?

Yeah.

What are you bitching about?

Yeah.

You're living an easy life in America and you're rich, right? Like, what? How dare I be upset?

Sure.

How dare I? Sure. Imagine.

Sure.

With the fortune, the luck that I've had in this life, me being pissed off at things. That's why it doesn't bother me if people talk shit about me either. I'm like, okay, like, talk that shit. You could have fun.

You could teach. Remember when YouTube was doing those master classes? Where like a guy would sit down, like Steve Martin would be like, "I'm gonna teach you how to do, write comedy," or whatever, and David Mamet did one on writing, or whatever. You could do a master class on YouTube in how to let the shit roll off your back, because I am astounded at how much it does not bother you when people are releasing clips and talking this, and it's all bullshit, whatever, and you're just like, "Yeah, whatever, man." Have fun, knock yourself out.

It doesn't— you can't stop people from having an opinion. There's always gonna be people that have an opinion. And then in this market of hot takes, there's always gonna be people, and their opinion is— negative opinions are more valuable in terms of the commodity of attention. Attacking someone, being, you know, calling someone out, it's more valuable in this commodity.

Yes.

And then there's people that have legitimate differing opinions of me, and they, you know, they don't like this and they don't like that. You know, like I said this, or they don't like this person that I had on. What am I supposed to do, address all of it, even think about it? I police myself as much as I can. Believe me, if I fuck something up, I'm mad at me more than anybody's mad at me, right? So that way I get it out on my own. I don't need a lot of external validation. I don't need any. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in doing the best I can. I hope people like it, and that's it.

I went— the little shit gets me, man. I know, good.

I get like, you know You need an outlet, Joe DeRosa. You need a physical outlet to calm your mind.

Yes.

That's what you need. You need to get a trainer. Just hire a trainer. We talked about this.

We have been talking about it.

Get a trainer.

Yeah.

Because you're not going to do it on your own. Get someone who you show up 3 times a week and they put you through the paces. And a smart trainer will do it nice and slow. So the first few workouts, it won't even be that hard. You leave there, you'll feel like energized. You won't feel exhausted. You'll feel like, ah, all right, I did a little something, feel good. And then he's like, okay, we're— this is a process, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna keep ramping this up slowly but surely. But you're never gonna be like, oh my god, I can't fucking move. I went to my fucking trainer, he's killing me, my back is killing, I can't get off the couch. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. A good trainer is gonna look at you, ask you how— what have you been doing? When was the last time you worked out? How often you do? Okay. Like, let's start here. And they'll start you off with some simple bodyweight stuff. They'll put you through some different mobility exercises, different stuff to just get the joints lubed up, get everything moving, and then build your body up nice and slow.

Nice and slow.

Yeah, my boy Chuck, you know Chuck, Mexican OT's dad Chuck.

Yes.

He, Chuck, right when you and I talked about, when you were like, you should get a trainer, Chuck said to me, unprompted, he goes, Joe, let me train with you.

Dude, take him up on it. Yeah.

And he goes, he goes, I'll come to your apartment. Let's just go. I'll come to your apartment.

That guy's jacked. Yeah, take him up on it. He knows what he's doing.

And he said everything you just said. He goes, we're gonna go slow. It's not gonna be this overwhelming thing. Because I get overwhelmed easily, obviously. And I was like, Chuck, it's gonna be too much. I'm gonna start— and he goes, we're not gonna do that. We're gonna take it really slow. Let me just come to your place, whatever.

And so I think I'm gonna start doing it with him because I just need to If you go to the wrong trainer, there's some trainers out there that are meatheads, or they don't really know what they're doing, and they'll beat you down. And they're like, we're gonna fucking push it today. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you can't push it when someone doesn't work out. When someone doesn't work out, you go nice and slow, nice and easy, and then you slowly build up to the point where you could push it, right? You don't take a fucking Prius and you drive it around the racetrack sideways, right? It's not designed for that. The The suspension's gonna fall off, the wheels are gonna— there's no traction, you got no tires, right? You're gonna have to build up everything. Yeah, and then once it gets built up, then you can push it. So once you get in— look at Jelly Roll. Jelly Roll lost literally almost £300, which is crazy.

Mm-hmm.

Now he's running on the treadmill. He did 6 miles when we came in to do a podcast. We were all working out together, right? And he's fucking running on the treadmill while we're talking. We're talking, he said, like, he can breathe, he can talk, and he's running at a good clip. Got in the sauna with me, did the whole thing. When I first met him, he's £500.

Good.

Oh yeah, could barely make it up to the stairs to the comedy club. He couldn't, couldn't walk up the stairs. Now he's fit. Now he's healthy. He runs all the time. Yeah, so it's just a process of building to get to that place, like He did that show— McConaughey has this benefit every year, and we went to the benefit, and he performed at the benefit. And he's on stage, and we were backstage watching it. And so we're like in the— me and Tony and his girl, my wife, we're in the corner watching this. Jelly gets off stage, and there's a railing, like a ramp to get off. He grabs the railing and hops over it and lands on the other side. I go, dude, do you know what you just did? I go, you used to be £500, and now you just jumped over that railing like a cat. That's why it was amazing. That's why he was so happy. He's like, isn't this crazy? Like, it's crazy. Look what you've done.

That's why.

And that's what you have to do. You have to— and it took him years, and that's how you have to do it. You have— it has to be slowly but sure. But along the way, you'll feel better every step of the way. It's not about— it's not about breaking your body down. It's about about slowly introducing movement and some physical exercise and then building upon that. 10 push-ups in a day, then the next day you try 12, and then a week later you're doing 15, and then 2 weeks after that maybe you can do 20 in a row, or 3 weeks, a month, 2 months, whatever it is. You— everybody's got their own timing. Bodyweight squats, very simple. Start with 10, no big deal.

Deal.

Get to 90 degrees, pack up. Just, just enough just to get the blood moving. Walking is fucking great. You know what's really great? Walking with a weighted vest. Not that hard to do. Put a 20-pound vest on, 25-pound vest on, walk around the block. Yeah, it's fucking great for you. Yeah, there's a lot of different things that you could do that don't crush you, and then you're just gonna feel a little better. You'll have a little bit of more, you know, vitality, more blood flow, and then you build upon that. That's the key.

I was building slow. I was doing 3 days a week, and it was getting better and better and better. And then end of the summer hit, August hit, I started going on the road again, and all of a sudden starts to taper off because you're like, now I got to fly on this day when I'm usually do my thing. And never— and I got lazy, and I got to get back into it. I gotta get back into it. But the good thing is this, with what you're saying with the slow building build, when I start again, I'm able to start where I stopped. I'm able to start there again. You know what I mean?

Right. Rather than where you began.

Exactly.

That's great.

Yeah.

That's—

listen, man, it's all about momentum. Discipline is very important, but really momentum makes discipline a lot easier. You know, it's like you say, oh, you've got really good discipline. Like, mm, sorta. I got started. Once you get started, it's more about momentum than it is about discipline. And then it's also about writing things down. If you just write it down, you have to do it, right? You write it down and make a check. That way, instead of like keeping this thing in my head, oh, I'm just gonna figure out my own workout, I'll do this, I'll do that. No, I have a whiteboard. I write down on the whiteboard, this is what we're doing, and then you just do it.

Yeah, I had a list in my phone. These are your exercises, 20 reps of each of these, and I just kept adding, yeah, exercises.

I don't know a good app, but I'm sure there's some out there that are like a really good workout app that'll vary your workout every day. Based upon your level, based upon like, you know, how much experience you have? I try—

it's—

there can't— the apps get confusing.

I tried a couple of them, and there's got to be a good one out there. I just don't know what they are.

It's a lot of questions that I'm like, I don't fucking know, man.

That's because they're trying to make it good. Yeah, they're gonna try to make an app that, you know, gives you what you need.

But yeah, exercise apps, again, there's, there's good ones, I'm sure, but exercise apps kind of became like dating apps where there's a million that are all saying we're gonna change your life in 3 days.

And you're like, I think most important is a real good trainer is more important because he can correct your form in real time, tell you why— don't do it like that, you're gonna hurt your back. Don't do it like this, you're putting too much pressure on this and that, and you're not balanced. Whatever it is, he can get you to do it correctly, which is more important than anything. Yeah, when— especially once you start actually lifting weights, you know. Pavel Tsatsouline, who's the— he's the guy who really brought kettlebells to popularity in America. It's Russian Kat, and great system of training. And but one of the things that he said that really stuck with me, he said strength is a skill. You should think of strength as a skill. Okay, so like when you're working on your skills, like kettlebell cleans and presses, you shouldn't be exhausted. You should do— he does, instead of doing it to failure, you know, like a lot of people like to work to fail. Like, imagine you can clean and press press £50 10 times until you're like really exhausted, and on the 10th time you're like kind of cooked.

Don't do 10, you do 5, right? Just do 5 and then wait a long time, wait like 5 minutes, rest up completely, and then do another 5. Do it that way. That's interesting, because that way you're always fresh and you're, you're working on skill. You're still getting the same amount of repetitions, but you're not torturing your tissue, you're not taxing your system, you're learning, and you're not taking any shortcuts cuts. You're not moving weird, you know, you know, like leading into something in a weird way. You're gonna hurt yourself because you're all out of line. You're doing everything with correct form because you're not exhausted. Yeah, but you're still getting the same amount of work in.

The rest time is interesting because I always thought, well, it— like, I was doing two different types of push-ups. I was doing the fucking 45 finger spread, down, hold, up, whatever. Mm-hmm. And I could get through 20 of those initially. I could I couldn't. And then when I was able to get through 20, I was like, holy shit. And then I was doing a different push-up with the arms back like this. And those, when I got to that, I'd hit 10 and I'd be like, fuck. And then I'd sit for a minute and then I'd— a minute would go by and I'd be like, you gotta do the other 10. Because if you wait too long, I always thought waiting too long was a bad thing. But you're saying no, actually rest 5 minutes, take a break.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it as long as you have the time to do the same amount of reps. You just want to get enough work in so that your body forces adaptation. It doesn't have to be all to failure. Now again, depends on what we're trying to do, right? If you're trying to build up muscular endurance, then yeah, you go to failure. It depends on what you're trying to do. If you're just trying to get stronger, that's a different thing. And then, you know, obviously I do different kinds of workouts. Like the workout I did today, this— it's all exhaustion stuff. It's all sprinting. It's not like the kettlebell stuff. Stuff. This is all high altitude, and it's all like maximum intensity on the AirDyne bike, maximum intensity on the sled, maximum intensity on the kettlebell cleans. You're beating yourself up because you're only doing for 50 seconds, and then— or 60 seconds, 40 seconds, and, and then 30 seconds. So it's like I do a bunch of different kinds of exercises, but when I do like strength stuff, I've— I don't ever do it to failure.

Can you do— is there a thing like, like some people go the 100 push-ups a day, whatever, that's their thing. I always wondered, well, is it the same if you do 100 push-ups just throughout the day?

100%.

100%. Doesn't matter if you start at 9 and finish at 3.

Farmers don't lift hay to failure, right? They pick up a bale of hay, they chuck it onto the pile, they go back to get another one. They pick up a bale of hay, they chuck it on the pile, they go back to get another one. They push a wheelbarrow. They fucking hammer a post down. They do a bunch of different things. They do it all throughout the day, but they're never doing anything where they're just— very rarely at least— where they're lying flat on their back breathing like they think they're gonna have a fucking heart attack, right? They never have that. They never get to the point where they're dropping the bale of hay because their arms are shaking and they're like, one more rep. But yet they get ridiculously fucking strong, right? Why? Because of all the work.

Work.

It doesn't have to be work to failure. And in our mind, we think, oh, you have to go to failure in order to get stronger, right? And again, we're talking about very specific things— getting stronger using kettlebells especially, but you could do dumbbells and other things as well. If you're— now, if you're doing something else, like if you're trying to get maximum amount of bench press, if you're trying to like win a competition, or maximum amount of chin-ups you can then it's a different thing. We're talking about a different thing. But if you're just talking about overall building strength for your body, the most important thing is volume, I think.

Okay.

And it's— if you can, like I said, I think this principle that Pavel Tsatsouline has is a really good one, that instead of doing 10, if you do 10 to failure, do 5, wait a while, do 5 again. And I think it lessens the opportunity to get injured you're, you're much less likely to get injured doing it that way. I'm very rarely injured from working out, very rare, from just kettlebell stuff, like very rarely. Right.

All right, all right, you're inspiring me to hop back in and, and, and start doing it again. I got a— I've really just got to get somebody to help you, you know.

Get Mexican OT's dad. Yeah, get him to help you. Yeah, he knows what he's doing.

Yeah. Yeah, no, that dude's fucking jacked.

Yeah, that's, that's a perfect guy. And he's the way— what he said is the right— like, he knows what he's doing. That's why he's the guy to get you to do it nice and slow and just build you up. And also he's fun. It's cool to hang out with. Yeah, that— you like that too. You don't want to be an annoying trainer. It's always asking you to post about him on Instagram. Yeah, fuck off. You know what I mean? Yeah, you think you post— I got an energy drink I'm trying to promote.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you get those DMs from guys.

Exhausting. Yeah.

All right, I'm back.

There you go, you're back.

I'm back in, baby.

Bro, I read the craziest thing today, and I need to find out if it's true. I sent you the thing that where Nick Fuentes was talking about, Jamie. So apparently there was this plot where Iran was trying to kill Trump. Remember when he was supposed to get in the Air Force One, the that Cotter gave him, and then instead he flew in the old Air Force One.

Okay.

Well, they're saying that he actually didn't even go in the old Air Force One, that they snuck him out on a truck.

Okay.

Like some fucking cargo truck.

Okay.

And then put him in another kind of plane and flew him out of there, and then they put the press in Air Force One because they were I think they were apparently worried they were gonna target Air Force One as well. So imagine, Trump put the press on Air Force One, and they were thinking about possibly targeting them.

Holy shit.

He hid in an airport catering container and was taken to a military jet for a secret flight out of the country after the NATO summit last month. And this is being reported by the New York Times. The thing is though, I think they put the press on Air Force One. So if they flew him out, it was because they were worried they were gonna try to take down Air Force One. And there they took the press.

They put— so if you take the press off, then they know that.

That's—

you know, I know that we're right. We're not playing games.

Just everything's normal.

Exactly. And if the press dies, so sad. Oh my, you just get more press.

That's fucking wild.

If that's true, that is so wild that he didn't even tell them, hey guys, guys, uh, we're not really gonna get on this plane. No one's getting on this plane. You guys get out of here. Go take American Airlines home. No, he's like, hop on, it's safe. Yeah, it's Air Force One, guys.

My gift to you. Take Air Force One, enjoy it. There's food out there, sandwiches on there. Enjoy yourself.

Is that absolutely what happened?

Uh, it says reporters on the older plane were not told that Mr. Trump had not flown with them from Turkey to an air base in Britain. Making them unwitting participants in the ruse and leaving them along with some White House staff members to serve as unknowing decoys.

Holy shit.

After they arrived in Britain, he was secretly moved back to the older version of Air Force One.

Bro, Jesus Christ, those press people were signing up for something they didn't know. They didn't know what they were signing up for. And they didn't tell them at all that when you want to know like who's more important sudden you were the president, that's when you find out. Oh yeah, they just throw you on Air Force One. Shrimp cocktail. It's like boom, all of a sudden you turn into fucking protons.

It's like fucking Goodfellas when he's telling Karen to go, go, go down and get the dresses.

No, I'm okay. Karen, holy shit.

That is fucking wild.

Isn't that crazy?

That is fucking wild.

That's crazy.

Yeah. Are they—

are they—

is there— has there been backlash? Are they— are they— are they— Jamie, are they saying anything?

Who's saying anything? The press.

I would imagine they're a little perturbed. That would perturb me. Jesus Christ, that's so crazy.

Holy shit.

Imagine if it blew up. It's like, I should have been there. I wanted to be there with them when they died.

They're heroes.

He would probably talk shit about them.

Oh my God, that is fucking—

maybe they had written nicer things about me, I would have told them.

Oh my God. Did you— I just watched, um, I just watched, uh, Michael, the Michael Jackson movie.

How was it?

It— look, it's the first part of his life up till Bad. They don't get into any of the crazy shit. They're saying they're making a sequel that they might get into the, some of the crazy shit. But it was, it was fun. I'm a big Michael Jackson fan. It was fun to watch. But I started reading up on Michael Jackson afterwards because I was like, it just was very nostalgic to watch. Do you know this? When he died, he was pronounced dead at Neverland Ranch, and they lied to the press and said that he was at a hospital already and pronounced dead because they had to get the body out of Neverland Ranch. And they knew if he pronounced him dead at Neverland Ranch, they wouldn't be able to get the fucking body body out of the goddamn house. Why? Because they said the press would leak it and the clamoring of fans and whatever else would literally have blocked them from getting the fuck— from transporting the body. So they had to lie and say he's dead already but he's at this hospital, and it was a decoy because that's how fucking famous he was.

They were like, we can't drive his dead body from this location to another or we're never going to get it there.

Steal the body.

I want to get a Yeah, something.

We get a finger. Yeah, but have garden clippers, something, try to steal.

And here's another crazy thing, because I know you've talked about the Michael Jackson, like, the conspiracies around his death on the show before. There's another crazy thing I didn't know. He owned, you know, he had that vast music catalog that he bought, right, of music publishing, right?

He owned the Beatles.

Beatles. Eminem.

He bought Eminem.

M&M made fun of him in a video and he bought Eminem's fucking catalog. Fuck you. Yeah, the most pimp move ever. I'm gonna buy all your fucking music. Yeah, yeah, right. So he owns his catalog, right? It's, it's, it's— I think he might have owned Dylan. It was crazy that the, the rights to the music that he owned was nuts, right? He's with Sony. Sony wants the publishing back on all these artists, and he owns it. And when he did his last album, he had to take out a loan against the record company of $200 million to do the album because he didn't have a lot of money left. And they said, you got to put up collateral. And he goes, all right, I'm gonna— I'll put up a portion of the catalog as collateral. And then he— before he died, he goes, they're not promoting my album, and because they're not promoting my album, it's not selling. And then everybody close to him said it was a ruse. They didn't promote the album on purpose so that he would lose the fucking catalog because he wouldn't be able to pay the loan back. And then right after that, he died.

Really fucked up.

That's the business he was in. Yeah, you buy people's shit, they fuck you over. That's how it works.

Yeah, yeah, it's—

come on, man.

Well, it's dark.

You're playing You playing war. If they blow up Air Force One, you gotta go, hey, maybe we shouldn't have fucking killed the leader during Ramadan. This is how it works. This is the game we're in.

This is the business we chose.

Hey, listen, he's in the business of fucking over his enemies. They decided he was their enemy. They fucked him over.

The doctor that administered the drug that killed him is out of jail already. Already. 2 years. And they're like, no, this guy was just a fall guy.

Well, you know, the thing about the doctor is he was asking the doctor to do that. The doctor shouldn't have done that.

Mm-hmm.

It's not like the doctor killed him on purpose. Like, he wanted to get anesthetized. I think he was so crazy that he couldn't sleep. I mean, he was so out of his fucking mind. And he was probably on a bunch of stuff. He probably wasn't just on propofol. If you're willing to take propofol to go to sleep, what else are you taking? You're taking some other things.

Yeah, right.

The doctor, the one thing that he said that I found very fascinating was that he said that Michael had been chemically castrated when he was young to maintain his voice.

I've heard that.

Yeah, and it makes sense. It completely makes sense. If you look at his body, it makes sense. His body looks like it's devoid of testosterone. Yes, it has no testosterone. He's very thin. If you look at his brothers, they're all all thick. They're all like big dudes. Yeah, Jermaine, they're all like men. They look like men, like thick men. Yeah, he looks thin and he looks very different than them. That's not normal. Yeah, that's not normal. That is— that's not even normal if you don't work out. And he was a dancer, so he was incredibly athletic, right? So, you know, all the working out that he did, he should have been supple. I mean, he was— obviously he could move so good. I mean, he was— his movement was incredible. Did you ever see that Bob Fosse movie that apparently he got all those moves from?

The one— well, okay, so which— the miniseries that Sam Rockwell was in, or All That Jazz?

There was a movie— no, before that, a long earlier, and it's Bob Fosse doing all the dance moves that Michael Jackson did.

I know what movie you're talking about. It's him and like a little kid. He's in the desert and doing— yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's literally all of Michael Jackson's signature dance moves comes from this one movie. Watch this. Watch how he moves.

Yep.

So there's this— he's doing this, but then he also moonwalks. Like, look at this. Like, all this— this is Michael Jackson.

Wow.

I mean, 100%.

Yo, wow.

Look at this. The kick and the point with the toes and putting it down, the movement.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, that's— it's literally every movie does. Look at that, that, that point with the kick and the toes.

Even the outfit.

It's a 1974 movie, The Little Prince. Yeah, Little Prince, rather.

Even the outfit with the fedora, bro.

I mean, literally, he mirrored his movements.

It is incredible that Bob Fosse had the stamina and ability to to keep dancing like that for his entire life until he dropped dead. Because if you watch the Sam Rockwell miniseries Fosse and Verdon, which is an amazing miniseries, that guy, bro, he was— I mean, it was intake. That's all it was. He'd wake up, he's popping fucking pills, speed, boom boom boom, coke, booze, cigarettes all day long. Chain smoking, chain smoking, chain smoking. Drunk through the whole fucking day, popping pills, doing coke. And the fact that he could still stand— and not just stand, choreograph Broadway shows for hours and be that agile, whatever— is— that's insane to me.

He loved it.

It's insane.

That's the thing. Find the thing you love. Find that thing, and you will have the energy to pursue it. It's really it.

But, but But aren't you a little amazed that his intake of substance would not hinder it in any way?

It's kind of crazy.

You know?

But I mean, we've seen that before.

You know?

Yeah, yeah, there's— yeah, yeah, I hear you.

There's people that have unreal tolerances, like Shane with booze. It's unreal.

Yeah.

When you see him pound 16 Bud Lights and not a slur, not a stammer. It's wild. Doesn't miss a beat, puts the sunglasses on, it starts getting crazy. Like, we do Protect Our Parks, and he'll have a stack of empties at the end. You're like, that is insane. You should be dead. You should literally be dead.

My favorite Shane story ever, ever— I don't mean to tell his story, but this is my favorite Shane story ever. And I was— the other day I go, dude, you have to do that on tires, it's so funny. He said he ate chicken fingers And he felt sick. And he goes to the doctor, 'cause he's like, "I think I have food poisoning or something. Like, something's wrong," right? So he goes— the doctor goes— you know, he's asking all the questions. "How much do you do this?" Whatever. And he goes, "How many drinks do you have in a week?" And Shane said he took a beat, and he's like, "I'm gonna be honest for once." And he goes, "80." Right?

80. He's so crazy. Oh, that's so crazy.

He said the doctor starts laughing. He goes, no, come on, man, seriously. And he goes, 80. And the doctor goes, it's not the chicken fingers, man. You drink 80 drinks a week, right? And I go, what happened? He goes, I went home, I threw up. I was fine the next day. It was the chicken fingers, dude. We were at, uh, we were at Chappelle's, uh, summer camp thing, the ranch thing, and we're hanging out, and I'm about to go on. Shane goes, "Come on, man, have a drink, have a drink." I go, "Dude, I already had 2, man. Like, I gotta go on, dude. I gotta be cool. I gotta be careful." Like, he goes, "Have another drink, dude. You'll be fine." I go, "Shane, I don't wanna be tipsy." He goes, "What number drink is that for you?" I go, "3." He goes, "I've had 17 Bud Lights. Have another fucking drink." Jesus!

He doesn't wanna be alone in drunk land. He wants you to be there with him in happy drunk land. He's a happy drunk though.

The best.

I love him. He's so fun. He's such a fun dude. He's such a unique person. He's very different than anybody I've ever met. He's like, you would think by, you know, you hear him talk, you think like he's similar to someone you know, but he's not.

No.

Different dude. Fucking smart as shit too. Knows a fuckload about history.

Loves history.

Loves it, man.

Loves history. And yeah, he's a very unique specimen. He's, and, And as you said, a very fun drink. I was just down at the beach with him and he was on the beach all day and I was at the house. I called it early and I was just kind of chilling out inside with McCusker and Tommy watching a movie. We're just chilling. And Shane came back from the beach and he was all fucking tuned up from White Claws or whatever he was drinking. And I was laying on this loveseat in the room watching the movie. Movie, and he just kept coming up to me and he's kept tickling me. He's going, "Come on, dog.

Come on, dog.

Come on, dog." I'm like, "You're awesome. You're fun." It's just— he's so fun, man.

Yeah, he's life of the party. Him and Joey Diaz in a room together with everybody else is like, "Oh my God, you got two enormous personalities, life's at the party, in the room together." Diaz kills me. He's the best, man. He's out here all the time now.

I know.

Yeah, I mean, he's getting a place here at the end of the month, and he's gonna do a residency. So he's gonna do like 2 weeks a month. He's gonna be here.

That's awesome.

Oh, it's fucking incredible. It's incredible.

He's the best, man. He's the fucking best. It's, it's so fun having him around. I was doing— the last time he was here, I was doing my monthly My Ann Friend show at the mothership, and, and he was The first two— the first comic was on or whatever, and he goes, he's like, Joe, could I go up on your show? And I go, of course. And he went up, and it was just seeing the pop from the audience, and just— I was like, man, this is fucking great, dude. It's fucking fun having him around.

We're very lucky. Yeah, we're very lucky. We got an amazing group of people around us all the time. It's a lot of fun.

And he said the funniest fucking thing. We were talking about like diet and exercise and lifestyle change. You know, and, uh, COVID, I was doing too much of this or that. And I go, when was your big change, man? He goes, he goes, Joe, you know what fucking day it was? It was the day of the fucking resurrection. And we go, what? And he goes, fucking January 6th, the fucking resurrection. And we go, do you mean the insurrection? He goes, "Whatever the fuck it was called, I don't give a fuck." Oh.

He used to call Khabib Nurmagomedov "Khabib." The fucking Khabib guy. You know, it's part of his charm, fucking up people's names.

Oh my God, he's so funny. The best dude, man.

Yeah.

He lives right near where my parents live in Jersey, and I was like, "Oh, dude, man, when I go see my folks, I'm gonna get in the car and drive up and hang out with you for a night because it'll be such a great break from just being with my mom and dad. And he's just the— he's the best, man. He's just got a truly big-hearted dude, man.

I was really worried once he moved to New Jersey we'd never get him out here because I went with him, we went out to eat in New Jersey, and he's the king in New Jersey. I'm like, fuck, everywhere we go, Joey! Yeah, cheer, yelling his name. Went to the restaurant, everybody knows him. It's like immediately everybody's like running over to take care of us. Joey's here, Joey's here. And I'm like, oh, he's the king in New Jersey. He's never gonna leave. He's never gonna leave. He loves it here. But there wasn't enough comedy there for him. Yeah, what, it wasn't enough comics? And one of the things that I always say is that we don't exist in a vacuum. We always exist with each other. Comics in particular, you, you can't really do comedy by yourself. You can, but you can't do it to your best. You need other people doing it around you. You need to see it. You need to be around it. The hang, the talking about bits in the green room is so huge. Like, Assan has given me two killer taglines after like seeing a bit and saying, what about this?

Like, oh my god, that's perfect. Yeah, like those things, like we're always like tuning each other's shit up or reminding each other of a bit. I remember Tony's bit bits better than Tony does sometimes, right? Like, I had to tell him how a bit goes. He's like, oh my God, I forgot that. I'm like, dude, go do that, go do that right now. He went up and did it right then and murdered.

That's great.

Like, you forgot, you forgot the bit.

Yeah, it's a, it's a very, it's a very, it's a very individualized sport in the sense of golf where you're playing, like, you're always playing against yourself, but it's a very communal sport in the sense that you're not playing necessarily in a literal sense with the team, like a sketch group would, but you're playing with the team. You know what I mean? The team is in the green room. The team— You're playing with the team in the sense that your buddy is on before you, your buddy is on after you.

You're all doing sets together.

And the game is, I gotta play my best game because I've gotta follow the guy that just had a good game, and I need the guy after me to have a good game, so I can't fuck up his game. And it's a very interesting— dynamic of team versus individual play.

There's also just the atmosphere elevates you. And I noticed that for sure about The Comedy Store in the glory days. And the glory days, like, 2014 to 2019 when we left, like, whoo! There was so much activity there. There was so many guys that were going up. There was so much good comedy that you would just get elevated just being around it. Like, it raised your own personal bar, like what your high-water mark was. And it just, you know, you're around like guys with really tight acts, and it just, it really helps. Helps everybody. It just, it's so important to be around other great comics, you know. And that's why these hubs like New York is so great for that, LA, and now Austin. It's like these hubs are so important because you really— we go on the road on the weekends, right? That was the thing about the store. But on Tuesday and Wednesday were some of the best nights. Nights because on Tuesday and Wednesday it would be Jessel Neck, Diaz, fucking Greg Fitzsimmons, Dom Herrera, over and over. Murderer's Row. Burr would pop in and maybe Chris Rock was in town. It was like, goddamn, these nights were insane.

They were so good.

I'll tell you, the reason I moved to Austin, and the thing that continues to be the greatest challenge for me here, in a good way, in a constructive way, because people say all the time to me online and shit, they'll be like, oh, you moved to Austin for Kill Tony. I'm like, I didn't fucking move to Austin because I knew Tony and I were friends and I had done the show. I didn't become kind of a part of that show until after I lived here. Here because Tony started to put me on and we started to have fun and then it grew from there. You and I were, were buddies, but like, we're much tighter as pals now than we were.

Well, we're around each other all the time.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Um, so I moved here primarily for— well, number one, I love Austin and I always— and I used to live here and I always wanted to go back. And once you could do comedy here, it was like a reason to go back, right? And you could The other reason was I was— I was like, I did New York, I did LA, I want a new challenge, and there's a new scene now and all that stuff. But the thing that puts me on my toes the most, and still does, is this is the best place for young comics to be able to pursue comedy because they can actually live here. They can afford it. New York has become unaffordable. LA has become unaffordable. A young comic can come here, can live, live like a human being and pursue their dream. And those are the guys that keep me on my— because you're like, dude, it doesn't matter if I'm the only guy on this lineup that has done TV or whatever. You got 5 people going up that are fucking swinging for the fences. Because when you're young, you really are like, I gotta fucking prove myself.

Yeah, you're following— even if it's 4 unknown They're doing their A shit. They are trying to kill as hard as humanly possible. And you're like, all right, I guess I gotta fucking bring it. You know what I mean?

There's that, and it's also their enthusiasm for it. You know, and the thing about Austin is we have a real system at the club that actually develops talent.

Yes.

Like, we have two nights of open mic nights, and we have a real talent coordinator. Adam really watches everyone. He watches the open mic nights. He gives people advice. He gets them spots, he helps them. He gets them on showcase nights, he puts them on— he gives them sets, gives them feedback, and then they get to work all around town. There's 5 other fucking clubs on the same street, man.

It's crazy, dude. You can walk from your place to Sunset to the Creek to—

Vulcan.

—Black Rabbit to Vulcan, and then if you don't mind walking 20 minutes, you can be at Roscoe's, East Austin, like, it's fucking nuts, man.

It's crazy. And then there's also Cap City, which is on the other side of town, which is fucking awesome. Yeah, it's amazing here. Yeah, and you know, there's so many young people that have moved here now. And then the Kill Tony thing— the Kill Tony thing is so huge because it's— first of all, you have one minute. You have no room for virtue signaling, no room for fucking clapped her. Shut the fuck up. Just, where's the jokes? Come, come with the jokes. And then no one takes anybody— no one's taking themselves seriously. Everybody's getting cracked on. Everyone's cracking on everybody. It's very fun. Yeah, it's a fun environment, and it's just emphasizing funny. What is funny? What makes people laugh? Yeah, and there's a bunch of different styles that do it, you know. There's a bunch of different weirdos that go up every week, and most of them have no chance. But there's some gems, and that's the thing about having like a true meritocracy where all that matters is if you're funny. That's it. It doesn't matter what you look like. It doesn't matter what your background is. There's— I mean, Kill Tony is like one of the most diverse lineups you're ever gonna see.

For all the people that think that Tony's a Nazi, it's kind of hilarious. Trans people, disabled people, you know, people from all walks of life, homeless, literal homeless people have gone on stage, started a career. Because of Kill Tony. Yeah, literally homeless while they're doing it, sleeping in a car, and the next thing you know, they have a career.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's an— it's a truly amazing thing. It's, it's, you know, we just did— he just did MSG, and I was there and did the show, and then, and then paneled with Jimmy Carr and Attell.

And you know how crazy that is, that Kill Tony sells out Madison Square Garden two nights in a row? It's crazy when when I first did it with him, we did it in the fucking— the belly room at the store. And the only people in the audience were like comics. There was nobody in the audience. It was like 10 other people maybe.

Dude, I remember— excuse me— I was down here to do South— it was when I still lived in New York. I was down here to do South by Southwest, and Tony hit me up and he goes, buddy, are you in town Monday? I go, yeah.

He goes, okay, did his voice Yeah, yeah, buddy.

He goes, he goes, come do Kill Tony, right? I go, okay. I hadn't seen him in years, you know, and the last I saw him, I did it in the belly room, maybe the main room, I don't, you know, whatever. But it was at the Comedy Store, dude. I walked into the fucking Vulcan because it was before Mothership opened. I walked into the Vulcan, it was like fucking Thunderdome, dude. It was two levels, people like like you could feel the excitement. Dude, I walked in the green room, Tony goes, there he is. I go, what the fuck is going on? What is going on? I go, is it like this every week? He goes, it sells out in 1 minute. I was like, what? I go, did these people fly in? He's like, yeah.

I was like, dude, it's broken Arctic our ticket service multiple times where it's just the overwhelming demand, the people that are trying to get tickets versus the tickets that are available, is so crazy it crashes the system. That's nuts. We had to like revamp the system like multiple times just to deal with the Kill Tony sales.

That's fucking nuts. It's nuts.

Well, it's just because it's so good. It's that simple. And if you've gone, you want to go again. It's so fun. It's—

that moment, it was like in— remember in Casino when Pesci goes out to Vegas for the first time and De Niro goes— and this is whatever Sharon Stone's character's name is. And then Pesci looks at Sharon Stone and he goes, "Holy shit, Ace, what the fuck you been doing out here?" It was that. It was like I saw that crowd. That crowd was Sharon Stone, and Tony was De Niro, and I go, "What the fuck you been doing out here, man?" Well, the Vulcan really opened up our eyes to the fact that we needed a collaboration.

Club. And what happened was no one had done any stand-up at all for months. And then Tony and I did, uh, the Houston Improv, which is great. It was a lot of fun. We did a weekend. It was in the middle of the COVID It was in July, and everyone was scared. And I did it, and it was a lot of fun. I hadn't done stand-up in months. It was so much fun. But then I started thinking, what if I get COVID and then give it to one of my fucking guests and I was back when people were really worried. Yeah, yeah, sure. I was like, oh no, because I have like these people that come in, some of them are older, you know, and I had this lady on who was a scientist and she was older and I was like, what if I gave her COVID and killed her? Yeah, because that was back in the day, that was also, but people were really convinced that you could be asymptomatic and still spread it, which turned out really what was going on was there was a lot of false positives for the PCR test, 80+ false positives.

Right. And so I said, let me just take time off. I don't want to do that. I don't— this just feels totally irresponsible just because I would want to get my comedy fix. Let me just ride this out. And then we wound up moving to Texas, and by the time we moved to Texas, it was around November, and Dave and I were doing these outdoor shows. I remember at Stubbs, right? Yeah, we were doing shows at Stubbs, which was a lot of fun. But everybody had to be tested. People had to wait in line, you know. It was like, it was a big deal. And a few people tested positive. We had to kick them out, right? Then the Vulcan just started doing shows. Fuck your tests. Let's just go back to where it was. And this is in November. And Ron White went up, and he hadn't gone up in like 8 months. He hadn't done any stand-up in 8 months. And he went on stage and the audience went fucking berserk. They went berserk. Like, people were standing up. Yeah! And he murdered— I mean, Ron White just laid it down for 15 minutes.

I'm sure. And then he grabs me by the shoulders offstage. He goes, whatever the fuck we have to do, we're gonna keep doing this. He goes, you got to open up that club. And I was like, all right, okay, we're gonna open up a club. And that was when I decided, Mike, that's it, we're gonna open up a club. And then I immediately started looking at real estate, immediately tried to find a place.

Place. Wow, I didn't know that. I didn't know that that's how the whole—

that was it. Ron White grabbing me. Because Ron White is why I moved here in the first place. So I knew Ron moved here in 2018, um, and, you know, me and Ron were talking on the phone. He was like, I fucking love it here. And, you know, he's telling me how great Austin was, and everything else was locked down. I was like, look, if I moved to Austin, if no one's doing stand-up again ever, at least I can hang out with Ron. Like, sure, it'll be a comic that I can hang out with and, and live in a place where it's like more relaxed and it's easier to get around. And sure, you don't have to wear a mask everywhere. It was like, it was at least, it was more chill here. Yeah, even if we never do stand-up again. And so him doing that and just grabbing me and saying, we're gonna, we gotta fucking do this, whatever the fuck we have to do. That's what he said. Like, he was just on fire coming offstage, just on fire, and just grabbed my shoulders. And I was like, okay, we're doing it. That's fucking great.

And that's when I did, because I was always— we were talking about it we should open up a club. Where would we— and I looked at a bunch of different places, but they kind of sucked, and they were trying to fuck me. They were asking way too much money for these places. Like, during the beginning stages of the pandemic, when everyone was moving here from California, everyone got crazy with real estate. They got really nutty. Oh, it was, it was batshit. They got really delusional. The prices went up like 100% in a lot of places.

Yeah, I'm going through it now because I bought a condo here, and I'm trying to sell the condo and buy a house. And it's very tricky now because the market has shifted so much and values are— There's way too many condos for sale. Way too many. Way too many. I'm worried that I'm gonna end up buying this house and not be able to get rid of this goddamn condo.

You're gonna have to keep the condo.

I don't have any need for it. I'm like, I don't know what I would do with it, you know? But I also don't wanna live in this condo anymore because originally— That's where you take sketchy women.

Women that you think might rob you. You? Because I know you, you date a lot of sketchy gals. Take them to the condo, have a house where it's like calm and peaceful, a little bit off the track, get a little yard, you know, get some peace and quiet.

And take her to her condo, she goes, why is there only an air mattress in here?

How come you only have 4 pairs of underwear?

Yeah, it's not a bad, it's not a bad point you're make. I've had a few people in my condo. You don't want them coming here. I know this was a mistake, give this address away.

Once you got people showing up at your house, like, oh no.

It's, um, it's— oh, um, oh wait, you were just— oh, you were talking about starting the club. Oh, oh, what's so weird, um, is it's, it's a, it's an odd, like, kind of full circle moment, but when I lived here in 2000, your club was the original Alamo. Yeah. And the Alamo Draft House at that time was the only movie theater ever in the country that served food and alcohol during a movie. And I remember that being a place that I went to frequently because I thought it was so amazing that you could get food during a movie. And the kinds of movies they played, I loved. And then on top of I always saw that as the reason that I loved Austin. It was sort of just a— it was just sort of a symbol of why I loved Austin, the concept of it all. And it's so weird now that I've moved back after all these years, that that's where the mothership is. And now that's my symbol for living in Austin and being a part of this club and that club begetting all these other places that we get to perform in the scene and all that stuff.

Stuff. It's a very weird, like, kind of full-circle thing. I didn't realize until right now as we were talking about it.

We need to have a birthday party for the building. The building turns 100 next year. Oh yeah, yeah, we have to have a birthday party for the building.

Yeah, yeah, you absolutely should.

Yeah, yeah, we should do something.

A lot of history in that building, a lot of cool shit.

You could feel it. I felt it when— when you never got to be here when it was bare bones. But when it was bare bones, when it was just the movie theater before we did all the renovations and raised the ceiling or lowered the ceiling and raised the floor and changed it and made the tunnel and all the structure that we put in place. When we first got in there, like, you could feel it. You could feel it, like, baked into the walls. I mean, Stevie Ray Vaughan performed there.

What was it before the Alamo?

It was a bunch of different things. At one point in time, it was like a a punk rock club. Wow. So like Black Flag performed there. Like, who's this? Chili Peppers in '86. Chili Peppers, '86.

So that's why all of those punk flyers are in the green room.

Yes. The green room is all flyers from people that performed at the club, their shows. I didn't know that.

Yeah. I thought it was just a cool decor thing.

Yeah, it's pretty cool. It's that too, but it's also, look at it, he's got the sock over his Cock. Rob Butthole, right on our stage. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, all those things on the wall, all those different people. Willie Nelson, all those different people performed there. That was their, their flyer for the show that they did when they were at the club.

There's so many bands on that wall where I'm like, yeah, Butthole Surfers.

Yeah, it's tons. So it was a punk rock band, it was a punk rock club, it was a rock and roll club, it was a pool hall wall for a while. Uh, it was a nudie movie theater. Yeah, amazing. Yeah. And then obviously it became the Alamo, and then the Alamo went under. I think before the pandemic it went under, and then it was available, you know, like a year. And I looked at it and I was like, it's like too much work. And, and then, um, that was from what 74.

Wow. So that's Fat Man.

Yep, that's what it used to look like.

Fuck, man. I mean, it looks different obviously, but it doesn't look that different.

Like, it looks a lot more narrow. Yeah. What I don't understand, like, what, what happened? I wonder if it was two rooms back then. I don't know. It looks different. It looks very different in terms of the— like, that looks more like it, right? Oh, different one. Yeah, the middle one looks like it. Oh yeah, but the middle one looks more like it. Go back to that again. Yeah, that looks more like the dimensions. Fuck, man, we fit 250 people in the, the big room, but I think we could fit a lot more if we have seating like the Comedy Works in Denver, which I think is the best seat. That's what it looked like when we first got there. We first got there, it looked like that, and we walked in and we were like, holy shit. The stage was really high, obviously, because it was like movie theater. Sure. And the seating was at an angle, a very sharp angle, like a movie theater. And so we had to raise the floor up so it was flat in the center, and there's just a slight raise in the back. And then we kept those two balconies.

Go back up to that picture. Picture right there. Those two balconies that we have, obviously we have the green room balcony and then the VIP balcony, which is such a dope thing to have. Yeah, because there's always, always friends that come by that want to, want to come by and see the show. And you always have 40 seats, you know, you could always get 40 people up there. So there's always those balconies fit 40 people?

Totally. Holy shit, that's crazy.

We always can stuff plenty of people back, back up in there.

That's fucking Wow, I had no idea the building was as old as you just said it was. Yeah, I had no idea all that other shit was—

1927.

Is this still the main room or is this Little Boy? Kansas City.

Okay, sorry, similar looking. But you know, we tried to figure out how to do it. Do we do it just like— like initially we thought, well, maybe we should do it just like this, like have seating like movie theater seating, and then we're like, no, we should probably like raise the floor up and make it flat in the front. It would make more sense, you know. And then we had to figure out like what to do with the stage. And then Louie gave me some really good advice. We were gonna keep the ceiling the way it was, and Louie was like, how can you lower it? And I was like, I think we can lower it like and still get some view out of the balcony. So we had to figure out how to lower the ceiling just enough so— and it made a difference. And then he said, "Lower the ceiling in the little boy too." And we did that. And then we also made the stage smaller in the little boy. This is all Louis' advice, and he was dead on. I was like, "Tell me what you think." I left— listened to everybody.

Everybody had got a say in what to do, you know, what to have. Like, Bryan Simpson, it was his idea to have the lights in the green room. The light that shows you someone's got the light in the big room, someone's got the light in the little room. Room. And then I think it was Tony's idea to put the timers, one or the other. Maybe it was Tony for the lights, Brian for the timer, I forget. But everybody had a little piece of the— like, I think it was Brian's idea to have monitors. It's like everybody got a say in how it's done. That's what it looked like when you— when we first walked in. Now, what does it look like now? I never go in through the front.

It looks— it looks—

I know, go to— go to what it looks like now. It looks— you can find an image of the mothership.

Ship. Similar enough. It's been redone, obviously, but it looks similar enough that you can see. Oh yeah, you can see the bones. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's essentially— it was set up perfectly for two, um, rooms. There's no pictures of the, the UFO. That's kind of crazy. So we have a big UFO as you walk in. Yeah, yeah, there it is. That's the UFO, and it has a projector. So the UFO is a projector, and up on the screen it projects all the people that are coming soon. That's— it's been amazing. We've been open for 3 years now, and it's been the most fun thing that I've ever been a part of.

It's hilarious, dude. I've walked under that projector a thousand times, and I never realized— or the UFO, I mean— and I never realized it was projecting shit.

Yeah, it's a projector.

That's so funny. Yeah, we just wanted to—

wanted to make it cool. Well, and it's also— I think it's a fire extinguisher. I think the center of it is a fire. I think we had to have one, so we put it in the center of the UFO.

That same, that same time I was talking about during South by Southwest, and, and when I did Kill Tony, that it was me and Adam Ray were on panel, and, and the next day Eric invited us over to see the club. It wasn't done yet, you know, but he walked us in. I remember him walking me through Little Boy. Mm-hmm. And being like, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this. This. Yeah. And I remember he goes, you gonna play here? And I go, I fucking hope so. I hope so. But yeah, it was, it was wild seeing it like, you know, in the construction phase and, and, and whatever, and then seeing the final product and remembering like, oh, I remember he told me they were gonna change that.

It's been really fun.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and you know, it's, it's, you know, It's, it's— I think few people are in a position to have created a club that can operate the way a club ideally should operate, and you're one of those people, and you made it work, which is—

well, you have to do it not to make money. Yeah, like, my goal in the beginning was just break even. That was the goal. Like, let's just break even. So the idea is that everybody gets paid what they're supposed to get paid, particularly the comics. Get— that's what everybody's here to see, is the They're not there to buy drinks in an empty room. They're there to see the comics, so the comics should get the most money. Yeah, that's, you know, what I used to always think when I'd go to other clubs. I'd be like, this is crazy. Like, but I would always tell comedians, be nice to club owners because you don't want to be one. Like, you don't, you don't want to be, right, the guy that has to run these fucking places and deal with these maniacs. Yeah, come in, and especially some of the nuttier ones on the road, you know. Like, could you imagine if you had to run the Funny Bone in Columbus, Ohio? Fucking animals that show up, just miss their flights, and they're fucking— they do ecstasy the night before, they can't read.

Yeah, yeah, it's 8:30, the headliner's not there yet, like, what the fuck?

He's trying to score coke. Yeah, it's—

I always said that too, I was like, I would never want to be in a position where I have to deal with comics from that side of it.

Especially comics coming up. There's like most established comedians, once you've been doing it a long time, you have a career, you're like, you're reliable, you know? You know what I'm saying? Like if you book, you know, fill in the blank. Yeah. You know, whoever it is, it's like national headliner, they're gonna show up. Yeah.

Well, also too, like the profile, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the profile that you were able to bring to the club probably helped you circumvent some of the horseshit that club owners in Idaho have to deal with, with agents and all that shit, where it's like, hey man, sorry, there's an improv there, so we can't take our guy out of the improv, or what. And now you're— there's a whole other battle now that you have to do.

Well, there's that. If you pay people more, they'll go to your place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what they found out. Yeah. And it pisses off the other clubs, but look, that's That's not my fault. Like, I— this is— I am a comedian. I made a living doing this for a long time, and I know the value of the comedian. I know the value of the comic. The comic should be getting most of the money. Yeah, you know, I don't deserve most of the money. We can make money. Well, we're gonna make money on 20% of the ticket sales and the liquor and all that jazz. We'll make plenty of money, right? Like, let's not be greedy. Let's just make an awesome environment, right? And that's what we wanted to do. So the goal was never to make money. So most people, when they start a business, their goal is to try to make money. Yeah. And this was a conscious decision to just not lose money. Yeah, just make it cool.

It's, it's, again, you're, yeah, you were, you were in a, in a very advantageous position to make it the right way.

And it was also like I kind of had to do it that way because I had the resources. And it's like, look, you're supposed to do the right thing. This is, this is the thing you should do. What would you like someone in would that is your kind of money to do? I would like someone to make an awesome club for comics. Like, you're a comic, you know how important it is. Make the fucking— the best creative environment welcoming everybody, pump everybody up. Yeah, that's what you should do, dude.

It's, it's, it's funny because I always say, if you're— if— and you did this as a comic, right? I always say with them, with a movie star, right? Right? Somebody who's got, you know, real movie star bank. I'm just like, man, why the fuck don't more of these guys that have endless cash start creating film situations that they want to be a part of? Not— I don't mean like, we're gonna do the next blockbuster thing, or we've got a franchise, or whatever. It's like, why don't you take take $10 million and make the fucking art fucking movie with all of your friends that you always wanted to make, because who cares? You will break even. You will break even at the— at the very least. I never ever ever understood why more people in that position don't do it. I don't get it, because rock stars do it all the time. Rock stars start a little label. Yeah, and they start putting on other bands that they love, and they do passion projects because they want to work with their friends. I've never— maybe not never, but it's very rare that you ever see a movie star do that.

And I'm like, why not do it? For years, American Psycho was the big one, the Bret Easton Ellis novel. Why haven't they made an accurate adaptation? Well, the studios don't want to touch it because it's too violent. It's too— it's like somebody with $500 million who's a movie are, fucking go. I'm gonna do it, and I'm gonna do it the way it's supposed to be done, and it's gonna work because that's what people want to see. And fuck it, man. Like, I just— I don't get it.

Do you think that the Christian Bale version was not accurate?

I like the Christian Bale version a lot, but it is not the book. The book is fucking dark. It's brutal. Yeah, there's shit in that book.

Oh yeah, I was reading that book and I was I was like, "Brett Easton Ellis has murdered somebody." There are details in here where I was like, "I don't understand how you would know this." One of the darkest scenes in that book is when he goes to get rid of the body and the real estate guy sees him in the room, 'cause they're selling the apartment. And so he realizes the real estate guy's already gotten rid of the body. And they look at each other and he just leaves. —And you're like, "Oh, God." —Yeah. And there was—

By the way, I was just joking about Buddy Snell. I don't think he's murdered somebody. I feel like we have to say that. It's very important to clarify. Yeah, yeah, I was just joking. Just humor. But the thing the book did— And they cut a major scene out of the movie. It's the one extra scene on the Blu-ray. And I don't understand why they deleted it. But there's a scene in the movie where his friend says— They're at the club at the beginning, and his friend goes, He goes, "I'm outta here." And the guy climbs up like these like rafters or whatever and crawls into like a fan vent in the club and you never see him ever again. And that's the part in the book that makes you go, "Is this all in this fucking guy's head?" What he just described happening is nuts. And this guy is now gone and nobody knows where he is. And I'm like, That's such a key scene, and they cut it out of the movie. And so whatever, they're remaking it now again.

Oh, they are? Yeah. Who's gonna be American Psycho?

I think maybe Adam Driver is connected to it. I think maybe.

Oh, he'd be good at that. He's got a lot of psycho behind his eyes.

But The Shards is the new Bret Easton Ellis adaptation on Fox. What is it? It's his last novel, and it's a— it's a, it's a fictional autobiography where he, the main character, is him as a teenager, and there's a serial killer loose and all these murders are happening. They're targeting teenagers, these brutal fucking murders. And there's a cult happening that's reminiscent of the Manson cult. And then he's also coming of age and realizing he's gay. And like, as he's trying to deal deal with the fact that this murder thing is happening, and he thinks he knows who it is. And it's a wild story, but they're— and he's— he co-created it with Ryan Murphy, the TV show, the adaptation. It's really fucking good so far. Really good.

So it's a period piece?

Yeah, it takes place in like '83 or '84.

You know how I could tell? The Ferrari. Yeah, old Ferrari.

Oh wow.

But it's one of the adaptations where I was like, I feel like they're really capturing a lot of what's actually in the book. 'Cause Less Than Zero was a cool movie, but it's not the book. Rules of Attraction's a great movie. And that's— he said that was the closest thing that anybody had gotten to.

The books are— it's— One of his books. American Psycho would be very hard to capture the darkness of it. Because you also are capturing this guy's internal dialogue. Mm-hmm. You know, which is some of it. Yeah. It's dark. So what would you do? Would you have a guy narrate the internal dialogue? You're missing something. Well, they did that with Bale.

He narrates the entire thing.

I know, but you're missing something there.

It's very funny. You— How do you mean?

Because I think instead of hearing it, when you're reading the internal dialogue, you understand that there's no— you don't hear the voices. Right. You know what I mean? Like, this guy's gonna some fucking creepy shit going on in his head. I mean, yeah, he's a fucking sociopath, psychopathic murderer. Yeah, it's like you get into his head in this way that I don't think you ever do in a movie. Like, you're in his head when you're reading it because you're imagining it all happening in his head. You're imagining how he's viewing, like, the real estate scene, like he's locking eyes, this real estate guy. There's this creepiness to it that It's like, oof.

He plays the best scene acting-wise, in my opinion, in that movie is when they're comparing the business cards and they're like one-upping each other. Look at mine, man, it's bone white and whatever. And Christian Bale starts sweating and he gets like hoarse and he's like, it's very nice, it's nice. Because it's this fucking pissing contest who has the best business card.

And he's so upset that he doesn't have the best business card that he wants to kill that guy. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.

I'm listening to this podcast about Luigi, the guy who murdered the healthcare executive. It's a very, very interesting podcast. You know, it details how they caught him, the whole deal. But one of the things they brought up is one of the first things they thought of after that guy got assassinated was it was probably somebody he worked with. Really? Yeah, they had had to find out whether or not someone had some sort of a grudge, someone got recently fired, when, you know, because when people get murdered like that, you oftentimes think it could be a coworker. I have a— or a former coworker.

I have a question for you about Luigi. I'm glad you brought it up. I'm so sorry, I have to pee really bad.

Why don't you go pee really bad?

I'm gonna pee really fast.

I'll be fine. Question about Luigi. My fucking manager does it.

It's— everybody does it. It's really fucking annoying. Sorry, Joe.

Is it more annoying than boiling your own coffee?

No, not— no, nothing's more annoying than that. The, um, turning on the stove, filling the pot.

Oh, when does it end? When does it end? What were we talking about? Luigi. Luigi.

Yeah, this is what I wanted to ask you because Jamie has a theory. Well, there were all the—

okay, not publicly.

There were all the people You know, that Luigi sparked that whole debate about justified violence or whatever, which I thought was bullshit. But everybody that was rah-rahing Luigi, going he's a hero and how many people has this healthcare guy killed and all that bullshit, I wonder now what everybody's saying about the fact that Luigi is doing the insanity plea. And it's like, well, he didn't really stick to his fucking— I mean, if that was his thing and he was gonna be the big crusader or for him to not go.

Yeah, but he's just playing the legal system. I mean, that's the smart move, play the insanity.

Well, it's the smart move if you're gonna—

It also might be accurate.

But also, is it the smart move if you're trying to— I know it's the smart move. I'm saying if you're gonna go out there and go, "I did this because it was justice," and whatever, and then go, "Oh, wait, actually, I was a little crazy." But here's the point.

If you did shoot a man who had nothing to do with you, because you thought it was justice because he was a healthcare executive. I don't know how he picked that guy. I don't know the details of what that guy has done. He was— was he particularly bad? He was killed. I think he was a CEO.

No, he was— he was— it was— it was definitely targeted that this man is— this man is responsible for decisions made.

Was he the CEO, Jamie, of UnitedHealthcare? Is that what he was? So If you think that you should go murder somebody like that, that you should— you're probably mentally ill. If you think that that, that kind of violence is justified. The problem that a lot of young people are having right now, and a lot of people that agree with, you know, what Luigi did and they celebrated it, is because everyone knows that the system is rigged and no one is doing anything to change it. Mm-hmm. And this is what drives people fucking crazy. If you get health insurance insurance, and their whole business model is to deny as many claims as possible, even if they know that your claims are justified, because they want to make money. So they're really in the making money business, and they're pretending they're in the we're going to take care of you and give you insurance business. Yes. So they're not really in that business. Yes. They're in the business of making the most amount of money. If they can fuck 10% of the people over over, or 20% of the people over, that's 20% more money. And that's how they look at it.

And that drives everyone nuts, and rightly so. And if they don't fucking correct that, people don't have a whole lot of options. I agree. As to how to lash out and how to get back. And especially if, like, let's say it's your wife. Let's say your wife gets injured or gets a disease or something, and they can treat and they deny the claim, or maybe she needs a surgery, some crazy surgery, and they deny the claim and it bankrupts you and she dies. You want to murder somebody. And it makes sense because you're paying for this fucking insurance all this time thinking that you're insured if something goes wrong. That's the whole reason why you give them money. I don't give them money for freebies. It's not, it's not for no reason. It's not because you like them, you want UnitedHealthcare to have a yacht. Yeah, no, you give them the money because it's supposed to be an agreement.

I agree with that completely. I have no beef with the concept behind his motivations for hatred of a healthcare CEO. I have no problem with that. My question is, is it— does it take away from the people that were rah-rahing him for him to now go, "Oh, I was just crazy, sorry." No, I don't think it does. Do you know what I mean?

I don't think it does. No, it's trying to not go to jail, and a lot of those people think you shouldn't go to jail. That's interesting. I think you should go to jail. I don't think you should be able to be walking up to people on the fucking street and murdering them, right? But I can understand where your anger comes from. Sure, I get it. I really do. Yeah, and there's a— there's a thing about capitalism, right? There's a thing about corporations in particular that are— you're beholden to your shareholders. You have to make more money every quarter. That alone, that motivation alone, it motivates sociopathic behavior. The people that are gonna be the most successful are the ones who are gonna be the most ruthless, and they're gonna squeeze the most money possible without— well, crushing the company's reputation. And that's their goal. And in the healthcare market, the problem is like, what are your options? There's no one amazing option where they always take care of everybody and they're real— It's ethical capitalism. They're just trying to— look, we make plenty of money giving people real insurance and really taking care of them and really paying for— and so let's make less money, but let's make everybody healthier.

Nobody does that. No, no, no. So your options, if you have to get insurance, are very limited. You're just giving money to psychos. So which psycho gets my money? Which psycho that doesn't give a fuck about me or my family or anybody I love if they get hurt or or sick.

Every year, every year that I don't do a writing gig on a TV show, which is not every year, I don't do it frequently, I do it sometimes, but every year I don't do a writing gig on a TV show or I don't act enough to clear SAG insurance, I have to make a decision. Is this worth $600 a month for fucking health insurance? Is it? I don't know. I don't know that it is, especially now with—

just imagine how angry you would be if you paid all that money, right? And you broke your ankle or something like that, and they denied you. Yeah, you're like, what? Yeah. And this is why people cheer about this Luigi guy. There are a ton of stories of people who had treatable illnesses and they were denied coverage. They had surgeries that could have been done to save them, they were denied coverage. There's a ton of stories like that.

It's a dirty fucking game. It's a dirty, dirty fucking—

it's not the game they're pretending is they're pretending the game is we're gonna help care of— take care of you. You're gonna have a safety net, so you pay a little bit of money and hopefully nothing happens. You never need us. And that's our gamble. Our gamble is if you do need us, you're gonna get more value out of it than you put into it. Yeah. And they don't want that.

Health insurance has become like the, the protection plan at Best Buy when you buy a TV. You want the 2-year protection plan in case anything— no. I don't fucking know, cuz no. I'm—

some places have a good protection plan though. They just give you a new TV. Healthcare's not even that. It's not even that. It's worse. It's worse than Best Buy. I don't know why they're—

maybe you just went, well, some places have a good protection plan. They do.

Some places you just bring them the computer, they give you a brand new one. This thing sucks, it broke. Yeah, okay, hold on. I file out this— fill out this form, we'll get you another You got another one?

Every time I've tried to utilize it, I bring it in and they go, "Oh, well, actually." Oh, really? Yeah, this doesn't— yeah, the screen's cracked. That's not really part of it.

Well, you probably broke it. What the fuck? You probably did something stupid. They make it so. It's probably your fault.

I probably threw it across the room in a fit of rage because I had to boil water in the morning. But, you know, it's a dire— you know, when the Neiman Marcus gang thing was happening where these kids were running into Neiman Marcus and stealing and shit, which again, I don't think is an okay thing to do. But, you know, like my mom, I remember, was being like, can you believe these kids are— I go, Mom, they just told an entire generation of kids they'll never own land. Right. They're fucking hopeless. Yeah. They're hopeless. Like, what do you— where does your head even go? Where does it go? I have a— in my act, I have a line. It's not even a joke. I just go, where are the Gen Zs? And they clap. And I go, you'll never own land. And it gets a huge laugh because it's so true.

Isn't that crazy? And it's like, it's fucked up. And then they hear that private equity companies are buying up houses so they could lease them out, and so they'll own all the houses. Like, fucking what?

And the parking lots. Yeah. They're buying up all the fucking parking lots. You can't park anywhere for free or for cheap. You know, it's fucking crazy, man. It's— we are living in a rent-to-live culture anymore.

Well, it's really just about— it's again what we were talking about, about maximizing the amount of money you could squeeze out of people, and that's their business. And it doesn't have to be like that, but it does have to be like that if you're public. It's almost like we're better off with a bunch of private corporations. And if you're private, you could do whatever you want. Like, there's private corp— like, look, you could decide, I'm gonna do, you know, I'm gonna give X amount of my profits to this, I'm gonna give Y to that, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do whatever I want because it's my money. Money. But as soon as you have shareholders, as soon as you take that IPO money— ooh baby, that's a big windfall though. You got all this money, all this stock, all this capital has been invested in your business. Your business is gonna grow, and the business does grow. So do your fucking problems.

Yes, they've ruined— shareholders have ruined— I'm not saying shareholders inherently are evil, but the board of directors and shareholders and all that shit, they have ruined everything. They've ruined everything. It's It's like everybody goes, why the last 3 Star Wars movies suck? Kathleen Kennedy came out and said, we were met with demands by the shareholders to rush the fucking sequels out and we couldn't make the movies we wanted to make. So that's, that's how—

Imagine if they did that to Jim Cameron. You can't do that. Fucking— you can't rush that guy. Imagine you rushed Avatar. Fuck you. Fuck you. That movie takes forever to make. That's why it's awesome. There's, there's certain things that you can't do just for money, and healthcare should be one of them. It should be one of them.

Well, you know what, and I don't say this to ball wash you in any way, but you just said it 10 minutes ago about the club. And for all the criticisms that people can level at you, whatever the fuck they want to say, whatever, it's like, hey Hey man, here's a guy I know that has a lot of money that started something that helps other people in the industry he works in and said, I'm not worried about making money, I'm worried about breaking even, and I want the people that I'm working at my club to benefit. You actually did it. You actually did the thing that we're complaining that other people don't do. You actually did the thing where you said, I am not going to try to turn massive profits off of this club. What I'm going to try to do is create an environment where people can make what they deserve to make. That's fucking pretty awesome and pretty crazy.

Well, the thing is, anybody can do that that's successful already. Yeah, you could all— you could all choose to run a business that way, and a lot of people do. I'm not unique in that way. There's a lot of like really ethical, like moral, happy people. Sure. And you make a happier environment too. That's the other thing, like the environment, the club is very happy. Everybody gets paid really well. Everybody's making money. The waitresses, waiters are all making money. Everybody's happy. Yeah, that's beautiful. You go to a place where people are happy to be there, that's, that's what you want. You don't want to go to a place where you're making maximum profits and everybody is in hell. And that's a lot of people that work in corporations, right? You're, you're working way more hours than you should. You never see your kids. You're constantly fucking stressed out. Your cortisol's through the roof. You're about to have a fucking heart attack. Attack, but you bought a house in the Hamptons. Yeah, look at that, I got a $15 million house overlooking the bay, right about that, right? You fucking win. I got the new Ferrari, you want to see it?

Yeah. And meanwhile you're dying. Yeah, right. But that's, that's the environment of just chasing money. I think you can make plenty of money. I mean, obviously I'm in an unusual situation, but I think most business owners that do well once you're doing well, what is enough? Like, it's— make it— just make it better for everybody. What's enough? What's enough money? What's enough— you know, if you're running a corporation, is it really good to cut back on the ingredients and fuck people over? Like, I was seeing this thing about powdered sugar. Some guy went to a grocery store, he took all these bags of 2-pound bags of powdered sugar, and he weighed weight them, they're like 1.£3, 1.£2, 1.27. Yep. They're just fucking you. Mm-hmm. Are you telling me that's not on purpose? Your machines are so off that it doesn't know what £2 are? Yeah. But this is this mentality of just squeeze the most. Yeah. Squeeze the most. I don't think you have to do that. I think if your business is successful, just, it should be like you're good, you're good. Let's like keep it, keep the ball rolling. Yeah, keep it good.

Don't try to just keep making the most money possible every quarter. And that's what they do in corporations because they have to. If you don't, you're a bad CEO, you'll get kicked out. Yeah, like, hey, good news guys, we made the same amount of money this month as we did last month. Like, what?

This guy sucks. Yeah, it's good.

Fucking sucks. Where's my return? Yeah, you know, I'll be fucking— we're gonna vote him them out. And then you get a board meeting together and people complain. You have to do that. That's their job.

Yeah, ideally what should happen is you say, "Hey guys, we made more money this month than we did last month, but the reason we made more money is because we made a better product that brought in even more customers and it was beneficial to everybody." Right. And it's not that.

It's not we squeezed the same amount of customers out of more money. Yeah, yeah, it's the fucking potato chip thing. Well, the other thing that, you know, these avocado oil scandal that's going on right now. So all these people that are buying things made with avocado oil, that they think, oh, this is gonna be super healthy. Turns out a lot of these corporations are fucking you over, and they're using seed oils and fucking safflower oil and rapeseed oil, all these different oils, and they're pretending that it's— yeah, coconut or it's avocado oil.

I watched a thing about food —where they talked about— by the way, what I meant by the potato chip thing was, when you— we were just talking about this in the lobby before we started recording. When you buy a bag of potato chips now, and it's half full, and it's all air. And of course, the excuse is, "Well, no, that's so it protects your chips." Fuck off. Get the fuck out of here.

Fuck off, protecting my chips. Yeah, don't crush the chips, you fucking idiot.

Yeah, maybe pack the chips and ship them properly.

No, no, we can't do that. Those Vandy chips? No, what's Vandy? Oh, they're chips made with beef tallow. Okay, they're just cooked in beef tallow. It's just beef tallow and salt and potato chips. They're the best potato chips you've ever eaten in your fucking life. Where do you get them? You can buy them online. I buy them online.

Yeah, a lot of these are so legit, dude.

If I want potato chips— oh, they're so good. And you don't overeat them. It's crazy. Like, when it's real food, you eat enough enough. Yeah, you know, especially they're like soaked in beef tallow. They're so rich in fat. Yeah, it's actually probably good for you.

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's the thing. Most of these quality food products that we want to buy and, and enjoy now, you have to buy them online. You can't get them in fucking stores.

You can get them in some stores, but the problem is they get bought out, you know. So say a company comes along and you're making something that has like really healthy ingredients and people really get into and then Pepsi buys you. Exactly. Some, some fucking Kellogg's buys you and they turn it into something that's just close enough. They change the ingredients, make it cheaper. Did that happen with— is it Rao's? R-A-O's? Rao's. Pasta sauce? Rao's? Rao's.

Yeah, yeah. Rao's got bought by, I think, like, whoever makes ragu or whatever. Nabisco or some shit.

Rao's made a great sauce. Is it still legit or is it— they fuck with the ingredients?

No, I don't. I never thought there was any jarred sauce that was awesome.

Like, you know, they always have Steve Chirippa's when he had his. No, you know Steve Chirippa from The Sopranos? Do you know Steve? Did you ever work for him? I worked for him when he was, uh, uh, the booker at the Riviera in Vegas. I remember that, before he got on The Sopranos, before he ever did any acting. That's hilarious. Yeah, I was friends with him a long fucking time ago. He's the best. I love that that guy. He is the best. So he had an amazing sauce. It was— I forget the name of it, but it was all organic, and it was, you know, like really super top-shelf ingredients. Okay, fucking delicious. Okay, such a good sauce. But it was too much of a pain in the ass for him to keep the business rolling, and he got rid of it. I'm like, goddamn, dude, that sucks. So I think he had a problem keeping up with demand too, because it was— he came on the podcast and talked about it, and then he eventually just bailed on the business.

Look, man, it's one of the reasons I left my, my sandwich shop was because I felt like operating in New York was too hard of a thing, and we had to keep the 4 years, 5 years, whatever, that I did it, we had to keep kind of upping prices and, and whatever. And it wasn't— it was not out of greed, it was out of there is no way that we stand a chance to turn a profit unless you keep up with what the demand and the economy of New York City is. And I just got to a point where I was like, you know, man, it's just not what I thought it could be.

You wanted to be fun. You want it just to be fun. Yeah.

And, and that was it. And it was— I wish them well, but, uh, they're still going. But, um, it was— it just, for me, I was like, I just can't. Like, this isn't, you know— so that what happens is with a lot of these companies that get bought up. It's this Steve Chirippa thing where it's like, hey man, I'd love to keep doing this at the quality I'm doing it and at the, at the, you know, the tick at which we're moving at or whatever. And then somebody comes along like Pepsi and goes, we'll buy out for $50 million, and you probably go, you know what, my ship just came in, take the fucking—

I don't know, right?

You know, I can't, you know. So I don't blame people for selling to a big corporation. It's kind of the position you're left in. You know, this mom-and-pop thing is going away, you know.

Well, COVID put a big dent in that. Oh, destroyed it. Destroyed it. Destroyed it in terms of like small restaurants. I know so many of them that went under in LA. I think at one point in time LA lost 70% of its restaurants.

It's that, it's the meat monopoly thing is brutal. You know what, like what happened with prices of meats, and because they saw like, oh, actually we can say that there's a demand and low product availability and all this and just charge everybody this much more.

But there also is a demand, and there also is low product. I mean, there's also the reality of the marketplace.

Yeah, well, that— what I think it is, is there's the reality of the problem, and then— and some people are affected by that very genuinely, but then there's a lot of people that go, this is a chance for us to capitalize and squeeze, squeeze. And that sucks. That sucks.

Yep, that's the thing. And you know, once you escape the world of need and you're in a world of decisions based on what you enjoy doing, then you could choose to do a business where you do it however you want to do it and don't worry about it, right? You know, because you're not doing it for money, you're doing it because it's a cool thing, right? And ideally, that's what we would all like to to do. Yeah, ideally. It's not— obviously it's difficult to achieve, but if you can get there, that's the way to do it. It's just that everybody has this thing about chasing the fucking whatever number it is, whether it's number in your bank account or the address that you're living in or the car that you're driving. Everyone's always chasing the new thing. There's a new thing to justify why you're pumping all of your energy into a business business, you know?

Yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's the unfortunate, uh, other side of, of capitalism.

This is why capitalism's fucking great. It's way better than everything else. Well, that, that I agree with, but we're just talking about— yeah, it's got flaws, and the flaws are human nature. That's the flaws.

Is there a way, do you think, is there a way to have the free market with capitalism but actually have some sort of regulation so these problems that we're talking about can't occur, or is it just you have to take the good with the bad and that's all there is to it?

I mean, there should be definitely be regulations without a doubt, uh, but I think too much regulations, then you stifle business, and that's what California has. If over— overregulated, because the government is just too huge of a business there. I think at one point in time, California, during the pandemic, they lost lost a bunch of people, like a bunch of people moved out, but they doubled the size of government. They just keep adding more government and more— it's like, that's where they create jobs. They create jobs through government and just keep adding programs, adding government, and then you just keep siphoning off tax money, and it's a slush fund. Yeah. And there's a whole economy based on it, and those people are the people that are in charge of running the city, and they don't want to let it go, right? Because that's how everybody's getting paid, and nothing's getting done, and the fucking homeless crisis never gets any better, and the streets never get clean, the schools never get fucking funded correctly, but yet they keep growing their fucking business, the business of being a fucking person in government.

Yeah, it's— I, one of the things I learned when I worked for the— because when I lived here in 2000, I worked for the Senate during the legislative session. It was the 76th legislative session, I think. I was a media reporter for the, for the Senate Media Department. Department. But one of the things I learned was how low a senator's salary is versus what they actually make in a year because of donations and whatever the fuck else. And I was like, of course these people don't want to ever step down from the seat. This is the fucking— this is a— this is a fucking joyride right now. Yeah. And once you're in that position, now you got to problem, because now it's like, well, who's actually in there to do something versus who's in there to keep the job? And if you want to keep the job, keep the constituents happy. Well, how do you do that?

Well, then you start compromising things and cater, and you learn how to be a good bullshit artist. Oh yeah, you learn how to say the things they want you to say. That's why people support ridiculous positions, because they fucking lick their finger and find out which way the wind's blowing. And that's the way my constituents want, so that's how I feel. Meal. Yep. You know, I think God's non-binary. Like, whatever. They just start talking. Yeah, they start saying things. You're like, what are— why are you saying this? This makes no sense. They're saying it because they think it's going to help them and get them to win. It's kooky stuff, man.

Yeah, man.

And nobody wants the job. That's the other thing. What? No, but no really successful person who would really be good at it wants the job. It's too much work. It's, it's a hassle. You're also dealing with insane corruption once you get there. Try untangling all the fucking webs that have been spun for decades where they've been moving money to this and moving money to that, and you gotta pay a little of this and you got to pay a little of that.

Yeah. Did you ever see Charlie Wilson's War, Tom Hanks movie? No. It's great. You'd love it. Mike Nichols directed it. Tom Hanks and Philip Seymour Hoffman. It's my favorite Philip Seymour Hoffman performance ever. It's a fucking awesome movie. Movie. But it's about how when we were sending arms and funding the Afghanis when Russia was attacking Afghanistan, and he's in there to do a good thing, he's like, these people are getting fucking taken over, the Russians are coming in, blah blah blah blah. And he does all this good thing, he gets all this funding to them, he helps them. There's the Afghani start shooting the Russian copters out of the fucking air and all this shit. And he's like, "This is great." And then all of a sudden, the powers that be are like, "We're cutting the funding." And he's like, "What are you talking about? We just helped these people liberate themselves. We can't cut the funding now. We have to rebuild." And they're like, "Yeah, we're not rebuilding. We're not spending any more money in this." And the end of the movie is Philip Seymour Hoffman telling Tom Hanks that— he doesn't say the name, but he says, "The fucking loonies are in the henhouse." He's talking about bin Laden is now taking over Afghanistan, and this is gonna go real fucking bad.

Fuckin' sideways on us. And it's just such a great encapsulation of that's how it works. That's how it works. You do a good thing and then all of a sudden it creates an even bigger fuckin' problem than they ever anticipated because of funding. It's a— it's— you would think—

also, why were they doing it in the first place? Why the fuck are they funding the mujahideen? And that's how bin Laden turned against us, right? That's what it was all about. He realized realize how dirty our fucking politics are and what we're doing. We're doing regime change in other countries and proxy wars and all the insane shit that we've been involved with forever.

It's fucked up. The way it's portrayed— the way it's portrayed in the movie is the Russians are attacking these people, it's going to be this genocide, it's blah blah blah. That's how it's framed in the movie. In real life, you know, I know there's always multiple sides. Both sides.

I mean, there's probably a lot to that.

But it's just one of those things where I brought it up because you said, "Who would ever want this job?" And I watched that movie and thought that. I was like, "Who would want the fucking job of this guy?" That he thinks he's doing the right thing, and then it just blows up in their face.

You just hope that good people come along and want the job. That's what you hope. But for the most part, they're swimming in a sea of psychos.

Right. Yeah. Well, the question is, is if a good person does come along, can they stay? Can they stay pure, or is the system just built in a way where it's like, now there's no way to do this, you know? It's— I was acquitted to the Hollywood thing. It's like, it's like, in my opinion, there's no way to become— or it's a very hard thing to become a massive movie star and maintain your morality and your ethics and whatever. You're playing in a system that is so fucking foul and so dirty and whatever. That's why we're like, it's so rare to meet a Woody Harrelson or something like like that who's a genuine person. And 9 out of 10 of those guys, they don't fucking live there. They're out, they go somewhere else and they dip in, they do it, they get the fuck out again. So I always wonder, like, is there— we always say, like, if only a decent man would come along and lead us or take this seat in this office or whatever. Is it possible to even remain pure at that point? I don't know. Or is it just, hey, this is how it works.

This is all there is to it. And you either play this game or you will be phased out. That's it. You know?

Well, the Hollywood game is interesting because you have to have the same political opinions of them. Yeah. If you don't, any variation whatsoever, if you're like, hey, maybe we shouldn't take this weird experimental vaccine, you're cast out of the kingdom. Like you have to be full compliance, full compliance to whatever ideology that they have because they're completely in control. They get to choose whether or not you work. The beautiful thing about comedy is— and music is another version of that, but less so, I think— is that you just make what you make, and if people like it, they come see you. Real simple. Real simple. You get a chance. Everybody gets a chance. Everybody gets a chance to open mic nights. Everybody gets a chance. If someone says, hey Joe, you're really funny, you want to open for me on the road? I'll say, oh my god, I'm on the road. Yeah, everybody gets a chance. Chance. Yeah. And the thing about the movie business is it's not that way. Like, you could be a really talented actor and you never get cast in something. You know, maybe they don't align with the way you think.

Maybe you didn't kiss their ass enough when you went in for the audition. Maybe you don't have a good agent. Whatever it is, right, you might not ever work.

Yeah, there's, there's a great—

what is it called?

It's the documentary. I think it's just called Frank. It's the documentary about Frank Stallone, Sylvester Stallone's brother. Oh, and Frank Stallone is an immensely talented guy, and he sort of got reduced to— he does stuff, he works, and he seems like a happy guy, but there was a big part of Frank Stallone where he kind of got reduced to the punchline of like Sly's brother.

Yeah, exactly. Well, you know, that was Charlie Murphy always used to say that about Eddie.

They talk in the documentary about Frank Stallone, they go, everybody's like, how did this guy not become bigger? He's so fucking talented. He was a musician, he's a great actor, he's this, he's that. And they say in the middle, they go, dude, it doesn't just happen. You have to have a team of people operating around you that make it fucking happen. It's not just dumb luck. It's not just, oh, he's good. If you don't have the people strategically, let's put it, that buying you through the system, right, it doesn't fucking happen. It just doesn't happen. It's like, look at when people get nominated, that the process of getting nominated for an Emmy. It's like you, you, you get the consideration vote, and then I would see it when I was living in LA, and then people would do these PR campaigns just based on the consideration.

Oh yeah, those billboards, "For your consideration." Yeah, you'd see them everywhere.

Then you get nominated, and then you— that's a whole other thing. That's why I thought it was such bullshit when, um, and I'm a big fan, I'm not knocking the guy. But like, when the, the whole thing happened with like Brendan— the, the year that Brendan Fraser won for The Whale was the same year the kid that played Short Round won for Everything Everywhere All at Once. Do you remember that year at the Oscars? And they both— it was like, it's the year of the comebacks at the Oscars. And they're up there going, I thought I was done and here I am. It's like, you fucking had a campaign. Like, this costs millions of dollars to get here. This is not some underdog story. This is— this was orchestrated. That's how it works. It's crazy. It's crazy. Nobody's like, "Oh yeah, I was driving a cab, then all of a sudden I got nominated, I won." That's not how it fucking works. That's batshit.

Yeah, well, it's a batshit business.

It's the worst and best business of all time. It's the best that we get. It gets us to get to do what we want to do.

But it doesn't. Stand-up is better now. It's like stand-up and podcasts is such an easier pathway than that. That was the old pathway. You had to be a part of that.

I was talking to Tony about it after MSG. We were at the after-party. And he— Tony, I love— This is one of the things I love about him. He gets— You have a few drinks and it's a real love fest. He's like, "Buddy, we're doing it, man. We're doing it." They told us no, and we're fucking doing it. And I go, Tony, here's what's wild. I go, the mainstream of entertainment could become the, for lack of a better term, wokest whatever. That whole thing could come back of PC culture and whatever, and they could tell any one of us or all of us, you guys are out. There's no way you're going to get anything on streamers or anything anymore. And we'd all still be fine. Fine because we all said we found another lane, so fuck it, it doesn't matter. It's a bigger lane too.

Way bigger. It's way bigger. Way bigger. Yeah, because it's authentic. Yeah, it's real and it's not curated. Yeah, it's real. It's simple. People—

that's what people want. If Hollywood could send a missile to destroy YouTube, they would.

Meanwhile, it's come up with some of the fucking greatest talents, like that guy who made Obsession. Mm-hmm. Came straight out of YouTube. Yeah. Dude, I gotta wrap this up. Oh, okay. Your special— Speaking of which, yeah. Joe LaRosa, I Never Promised You a Rose Garden, available right now on Netflix. On Netflix. Where'd you film it?

We shot this in Phoenixville, Pennsylvania. It was on my YouTube. Netflix scooped it up. It's still on my YouTube, but please go watch it on Netflix, and I hope you all enjoy it, and then, And my podcast, Violent Horrendous, is now out. YMH Network. Nice. And @JoeDeRosaComedy on YouTube is where you can find it. So please listen, and I hope you watch the special and enjoy it. Thank you for having me today. My pleasure, brother. I love you. Love you, bud.

All right. Thank you. Bye, everybody.