Transcript of #2423 - John Cena

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Mister Roland, what's up? John Cena in the fucking house.

Put these on, yeah.

Yeah, let's put these on. Pretend we're professional. What's up? Good to see you, man.

Thanks, man. Thanks so much for having me.

My pleasure.

Being here.

And there's no way I'm having a pro wrestler on without Tony Hinchliffe.

Of course.

It is impossible. He's the expert. He knows more about pro wrestling than I know about UFC.

Yeah. Sometimes I translate little things here and there.

That's cool. It's all right.

Yeah, he has to. He has to. And he's a giant fan of yours too. You know what else is a giant fan of yours? Is Brian Simpson. Brian Simpson was going on last night about how intelligent you are. It was really interesting.

You sure it was me?

Yeah, man. But you do speak fucking Mandarin, which is kind of crazy.

Yeah, yeah.

How long did it take you to learn that?

Man, I was doing that for quite a long time. I've since kind of declined on the studies. A wonderful takeaway from the study of Mandarin. Just because you know a language doesn't mean you know the culture.

Ah.

So that was a fantastic experience with. But I studied Mandarin for like a decade. And I would say, like, not even conversationally fluent. It was a really tough hill to climb for me.

Well, it seems like a really big hill.

Just, it's just different.

And you get used to the language and the structure. And you get to read it. You know, the reading is crazy.

No, no, I didn't even bother to read. And, like, reading all the characters, understanding everything. Yeah.

How long did it take you to learn?

Around 10 years.

Whoa.

Yeah. And then, like, I mean, I would dream in Mandarin and, like, have conversations and kick down in that. So it became like a second language. But, you know, I lived in China for a little bit. I filmed a movie with Jackie Chan, so I was there for like six or seven months. I lived there. And, man, we were in Mongolia, Yinchuan Province. So, like, in China.

Wow.

And it was fun. Yeah, yeah.

You were in Mongolia?

Inner Mongolia, yeah.

What's the difference?

I don't know. Because I've never been to Mongolia. But Inner Mongolia was, man, I was the only person that looked like me there. And everyone would say, look, it's big white guy. Handa Bai Ren. Handa Bai Ren. That would call me.

Wow.

Yeah, yeah.

Wow. So what motivated you to learn that? It seems like such a task.

Honestly, man, it was everything in my life seems to be wrestling related. It was wrestling related. Like, WWE's reach spread everywhere. I mean, I've been able to, lucky enough, to perform everywhere. From, like, Moscow, Philippines, South Africa, Bangor, Maine, every place in between, except China. China was like the one place that didn't understand what we did. So it's literally like it's a universal language. Because you can turn, it's like UFC. Like, you turn the volume down, but you can see, like, oh, this is two guys, best guy wins.

Was it your idea?

It was my idea, but the WWE offers, and I think they still offer it. They offer a free second language program. So, like, when they rolled out the initiative of, like, financial advice and, you know, they'll pay for portions of your secondary education and free second language. This is like 2011, 2012, big talent meeting in, like, an auditorium. I'm one of the old guys at the time, sitting in the front, being like, these kids don't know how good they have. I should stand up and tell them. I'm like, nah, fuck that. I'm actually going to lead by example and take a language.

Wow.

And like I said, it worked, but it kind of only worked. And I think actually right now, China is experiencing what wrestling is to them. Because, like, there's, I've read articles that there's promotions over there that are thriving. So, like, now they get it.

Oh, so they have their own promotions now?

Yeah, yeah.

And this is a fairly recent thing?

I think so. Like, I just read recent articles that, like, pro wrestling is thriving in China. And they have their own, like, their own way of doing it.

Wow.

Yeah, yeah.

Wow. That's wild. It's wild how, like, expansive the pro wrestling business is. That they would be that open-minded to say, like, let's give second language programs to the athletes.

Well, you know, I just, it's weird. The origins of the business are carnival related. It is like a carnival attraction. And then it was, like, ruthlessly territorial. And then when it became national, it was still trying to find its way. It's almost like you see pro sports doing it. You know, the more a sport succeeds, the more benefits they offer to their competitors and athletes. So, you know, WWE kind of hit that stride. Yeah.

It's just such a smart thing to do, you know?

Yeah, well, you give your talent the opportunities to gain knowledge and wisdom. And the sad thing is, I don't know how many people did it. Or do it still, you know?

Was there anybody other than you that you know of?

Two other people.

Who?

Claudio Castignoli, who speaks, I think, four or five languages already. And he just wanted to take, like, a brush-up course. And Natty Neidhart.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's it.

That's it.

Everybody else is like.

Not going to do it.

Too much work.

Yeah.

What was the not knowing the culture aspect of it?

So, man, I got put in a bit of a hot spot with I made a pact to myself when I was like, OK, I feel fluent. We would do these global press tours. And I just happened to be on a global press tour. And I'm like, you know what? I'm going to do 70% of my media in Mandarin. Like, in dialogue. And I got to say, I did it. Like, I went over there, spoke. People were taking off the translator headphones. Like, life was good. Everything was great. And at the very end of the day, as with all these press tours, you do, like, a bunch of prompter reads.

Did they even refer to it as Taiwan? I think they referred to it as Chinese Taipei, right?

Man, what was in the, I know what I read in the thing.

Oh, OK.

So that's, again, I don't know enough depth to know that. And now, like, people are like, oh, man, can you speak Mandarin for this? I just won't do it. It's a skill that I have. And it's, but it's a skill that's going to remain with me. Because it's, I don't understand. I don't have the depth to feel to know what to call that place in that region of the world. And I haven't done enough research. And I don't have the wisdom. And I don't have, like, the cultural fluency, you know?

Mm.

So it was a cool lesson. It sucked. Because I thought I was just trying to do something good. But it was a cool lesson.

Was it really that big of a deal?

Man, I thought, like, I was filming Peacemaker season one. And when they came out with all of this stuff, I went directly to James Gunn. And I was like, hey, man, if you have to fire me, I understand.

Wow.

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Is that serious?

Yeah, and it was.

But it wasn't even words that you wrote. Someone out, the WWE wrote it?

That doesn't, no, no, it was for the movie I was promoting.

Right, so the movie, the people that made the movie wrote it.

So I don't know. Like, when you do these press tours, let's say, if I'm doing a movie for Warner Brothers, let's say. Let's use Peacemaker as an example. I'm doing a global Peacemaker tour. And we go into China. Or we go into South America. You meet, like, the PR person there. And they have all the stuff you're supposed to do. And they curate your experience. And they hold your hand. And you're like, OK, now we're going to go to this station. And then, by the way, they just want you to do some shout-outs. So anytime I go anywhere globally now, as much as I want to thank fans for their attention and, you know, investing in the product, I really shy away from, like, speaking the language.

So was the teleprompter in English? And you translate to Chinese?

No, everything was in Mandarin. And in Chinese, they have the characters, which are virtually impossible for me to learn. There's, like, an infinite number. But they also have what's called pinyin, which is, it's kind of spelled out in English with phonetics. So it has the four tones.

OK.

So if you were to put something in front of me in pinyin right now, I could definitely read it. And I got good at reading pinyin. So I was like, man, I could send all these messages in Mandarin. And then more people will know about this movie. And more people will know about me. And more people will know about wrestling. And more people will be excited. Looked good on paper. Just my follow-through was a bit weak, you know?

It doesn't even seem like that was your fault.

Right.

Well.

It's probably a PR's assistant assistant that's typing, that's probably in charge of doing the grunt work of typing in all the different languages and the different countries. Like, it's tedious.

And from what I know, I know I'm going to learn a lot about you guys in this episode. But from what I know about you, you're into looking at things through different lenses and different perspectives. It also could have been somebody being like, I'm going to get this kid. Ooh.

But here's the thing. I do appreciate you saying, like, it's not your fault. That's not true. It was my fault. And I think that's when I can start to work on, like, well, what did I learn from this? And I could easily blame a PR, an assistant. I could say somebody had a target on my back, all that stuff. I fucked up.

Did you suspect that somebody might have set you up?

No, man.

But you're saying it like it's a possibility.

Well, man, when it happened, every theory came. Like, here's the thing. The world doesn't revolve around me. But my little world, everybody was like, they fucked up. They did this on purpose. I was like, well, first of all, who's they? So I was able to kind of eliminate all that. And once I realized I could still go on working, I really made a lot of people angry. And for that, I'm sorry. Like, again, I was just trying to.

That's crazy, just by saying that Taiwan's a country.

In Chinese, though.

Right.

You know?

Yeah.

Like, those are murky waters to begin with.

Yeah.

You know, like, I'm not even thoroughly fluent on the US policy. I think it's like, like, territorial ambiguity or some shit like that. Like, it's so weird. And it's so fragile. And I got into some water I shouldn't have been swimming in. But that's on me. It's not, it was my fault. And I think that's important for me to bear the burden of that and be like, yo, what, how can I course correct? What did I learn? Who do I really, really genuinely have to apologize for offending?

Because you apologized?

Yes, in Chinese.

OK.

And I understand it. I mean, completely, like, bowing down to the demand of this, that, gosh, what a shitty move by me. Like, I just, I should have taken a breath. Again, what did I learn? Don't be reactive.

Mm-hmm.

Take a breath. Find out what's going on. Find out the best path of action. Maybe give it a few days. Maybe give it a hot second.

Mm-hmm.

And then move forward. But immediately, I was like, oh, they're mad? You want us to do this? Fine, no problem. I'll fix it right now. Man, not only did I not try to fix the hole in the boat, I sunk the Titanic. So it was, but again, it was a learning experience.

Well, it speaks to your character that you don't blame anybody else. Because I blame everybody else. I'm like, who fucking wrote that? Don't you know what you're saying or what you're making me say?

The release you guys have for the show, I read it. And you're.

You might be the only person.

So that was, whoever handed it to me, that was what they said. Like, I think you might be the only person that's ever read it.

Yeah.

Man, if you're going to, if you're going to take liberties with me, at least I want to be able to read that you are.

Right.

You know what I'm saying? And I can't say I'm perfect at doing that. But, like, I was handed a release. I'm like, ah, man, can I just glance this over for a, oh, this says what I think it says. OK, let's go.

Trump didn't even read it. He just was.

To each their own?

Yeah, no, it's very smart of you to read it. You know, who knows, you know?

Who knows?

So this is, Tony, is this the full trifecta now? It's like if you've gotten all of your heroes on this podcast now?

There's a couple more we can knock off out of the pro wrestling world. There's a couple more.

Todd, let's, if you don't mind, if I can indulge.

Please.

Talk pro wrestling heroes. Who do we need to knock off? Who do we need to do anything?

Well, I mean, in all reality, and it's a diabolical.

Because, man, he can kind of invite, you can't invite anyone you want in here.

Yeah.

You just kind of got to give him the wish list.

I mean, you got to start with the number one, without a doubt, Vince McMahon, who started this gangster shit and spread it around.

I would definitely have him in.

It was a little.

Man, he would be great.

Yes.

Whatever magic you have out there, and you have a lot of gravity.

Do you think he'd be interested in doing it?

Are you kidding me? I think he would love it.

Really?

I think he would love it.

OK.

I don't know when the right time is. But, man, don't miss out on that opportunity. At least send it out to the universe.

Yeah. Well, I would definitely. Vince, if you're listening.

Vince, if you're listening.

Let's go.

I think this would be a great, I think this experience would be a great one for you.

Is he still involved? Is he out?

No, he's out.

Is he in? He's out.

He's out.

He's out totally.

Yep.

It seems like he's the guy that'll be out for a little while. And then something will happen. They'll bring him back in.

No, well, I don't know. Again, that's way, we were talking about, like, why is your last event in this place? I'm like, man, because I don't choose the events. Like, I don't, all that stuff is so far above me. But I know now he's out. In my eyes, I'd like to think that, like, time heals everything. And I believe in forgiveness. And I also believe in, like, looking at the body of work. But I also notice a lot of fragile stuff going on there. I don't know, man.

Yeah, it's a hot subject.

It is.

It could get us into another Chinese Taipei incident.

Well, no, no. Man, I'm, again, I've learned to become a little bit more accountable for what I say.

Yeah.

And just how, just because I feel a certain way about a person doesn't exonerate them from being accountable for their actions.

Right.

And just because he did start, quote unquote, all this gangster shit, that doesn't mean he doesn't need to be accountable for his actions.

Right.

So let's figure out what that means. And then figure out if we can move forward and bring that back in the fold, or if it stays the way it is.

What do you think, Tony? You think he's coming back?

I think he would come here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think he would come here, too. And I think he, you know, that's one of the more entertaining people of all time. He created the entire universe. You got to remember, Hogan's Hogan because of him. Cena's Cena because of him.

I'm mean because of him.

Yeah, every single stone cold, he's like, that sounds good. Yeah, keep it going. We'll do the glass breaks thing, and they'll throw you beers. I like it. Let's do it again next week. So everything that we think.

When he sits here, you got to do that impression.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Stone Cold's another one that hasn't been on.

Steve would be great.

Oh, my God.

I think you would dig Steve.

Oh, yeah.

I'm sure. Yeah. He lives out here, too, doesn't he?

Yep.

Does he?

Well, actually.

Doesn't he have a ranch out here?

I think he does somewhere.

I think he does.

Yeah, but I think he's based out of somewhere else now, New Mexico or Arizona. He's on the, he like, he's like kind of cool and reclusive. He like doesn't really do a lot. It's amazing.

He would be a good get. And I'm pretty sure, I guarantee he would do it.

Yeah.

Steve, if you're listening, I know you're watching. Come on. Come on. Come on in. Let's talk some wrestling.

The man. I mean, everyone has him on the, you know, the Mount Rushmore. Triple H, who runs it now, the son-in-law of Vince McMahon.

Yeah.

I mean, he runs the entire thing.

I mean, you want answers to those high-level questions.

Yeah.

There's your guy.

Yeah.

That's the guy you need to get in the, a lot of the stuff you'll probably, you probably ask today. I'll be like, that's way above my pay grade.

That's over $100 in free gifts. Just head over to drinkag1.com/jorogan or visit the link in the description to get started. Well, you know, if you don't know the history, Tony at one point in time was offered a job with the WWE before he really made it.

No way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was offered a job to write for the WWE. Because, you know, Tony was a giant pro wrestling fan. And, you know, he'd already had a Netflix special. So he was known as a comic.

It was before that.

Was it before the Netflix special?

Yeah.

The first one?

Yeah.

The one that you released yourself?

Yeah.

Really?

Yeah, it was only a couple years into me doing stand-up, like seven nights a week at the comedy store all the time. And somehow I ended up, someone's like, hey, I have a friend in WWE. If you want to have a meeting with them and just talk. And I went in with straight-up ideas. This, that, the Undertaker's brother comes back again, this, that, the next, like, everything back and forth. I can't even remember any of them. It's been so long. But I went in with the whole thing. And this guy's like, where the hell did you, like, what, this is crazy. You just, like, did this? I'm like, yeah, I found out a couple days ago we were going to talk.

Did he really?

Yeah. Yeah, for like a couple years, I think.

What did he, he just wrote lines for them? Like, what did he do?

The whole shebang. When you're a WWE writer, they make you write. It's not like a cute job at all.

No, there's a lot of, there's a lot of television. Or there's a lot of content every week.

Yeah.

Right now, I think they got, they have three weekly shows.

Mm-hmm.

So that's 20, I think one of them's going back to three hours.

Yeah.

It's like 50 segments of TV.

Yeah.

Every week.

Yeah, but I remember when you were talking about it.

Yeah.

When you were talking about potentially doing it, it was like.

Yeah, it was tricky.

And I was like, dude, you do not want to live in Connecticut.

No, that's the main thing. If it was anywhere else other than Connecticut, it kind of would have made more sense. If it was in New York City, it would have been a no-brainer. If it was in LA, definitely.

But, like, fast forward, now you're more and more involved.

Yes.

Well, this is the crazy thing. Like, we had talked, like, during the old days, like, we would talk in the green room. I'd be like, that would be your ultimate dream job.

Yeah.

Like, to make it as a comedian and somehow be involved in the UFC the way I, or excuse me, in WWE the way I'm involved in the UFC. Like, very similar.

Yeah.

And look.

Crazy. It's insane. I'm going tomorrow night. I'm going to be in the front row at the arena in my hometown.

Are they here tomorrow?

Yeah.

Oh, man.

Are you messing with me? Are you going to, is your music going to hit and you're going to pop out?

No, no, nothing. I've got one more left.

This is what they do, by the way.

Oh, yeah?

Oh, yeah.

And they didn't even know they were going to be in town.

So he's correct. There's a lot of, you mess with people. You're right. But then somebody like me will actually shoot you straight and be like, I'm not going to be there. And I won't be there. And you'll be like, ah, now I'm just, I'm building the equity for people to mess with people.

Exactly.

Like, I'm giving 20 Mulligans out there.

Tomorrow.

Never.

The music plays.

Yeah, exactly. I heard a great story. You'll probably love this. You might even know the story. But the Undertaker, his wife, and his podcast co-host went to WrestleMania. They're up in a fancy suite. This was, which one was it? The Rock? Main event appearance? Did you, yes, you were there, right? That huge finish at WrestleMania.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like three years ago, where it was just boom, boom, boom, boom. And all these legends were coming out. And this huge finish, just, like, they can't even, like, follow it. The ultimate climax of a WrestleMania. And one wrestler comes out, interrupts this huge main event, and then another one, then another one. Anyway, the Undertaker, his wife, and his podcast co-host were up in the suite. Undertaker goes, I'm going to go use the restroom. They're like, he's been gone a while. The lights go out, the bell tolls. They're watching from the suite. He's been gone for like 10 minutes, 20 minutes. He went and changed real quick. And then now he's.

Came out as the Undertaker.

Yeah, came out as the Undertaker. They're in the suite, like, oh my God, it's the Undertaker. Like, they don't tell anybody. It's so old school and awesome that they keep secrets so locked up that their own loved ones, his wife didn't even know.

That's hilarious.

Yeah.

That is so crazy.

It's fun to be able to surprise a live audience.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I mean, it's got to be a big part of it. How did you get involved in pro wrestling? Were you a fan as a kid? And then.

I sure was. I think we have this same gravity of, like, man, I was a super fan as a kid. But then I fell out of it, admittedly, kind of when Hogan went to WCW. So, like, I was into wrestling, and then I wasn't. And then I got into sports or whatever. And then I got back into wrestling when everyone else did. When, like, Stone Cold Steve Austin became big, The Rock became big, the Attitude era hit. And I was just working a dead-end job over at Gold's Gym Venice. And, like, didn't know what I wanted to do with my life.

How old were you?

21.

Wow.

21. I'd moved out to California, not to be famous or anything. My degree was in Cannes. And I wanted to, like, that was the center of the fitness universe in '99, 2000. So, like, all equipment manufacturers were there. I'm like, man, I'll go get a job with Hammer Strength or Cybex or, like, maybe Gold's or, like, put that piece of paper on the wall to, like, get a good paying job. It did not work. So I ended up, like, front desk, cleaning toilets, selling protein bars, in that order. So don't ever buy a protein bar. I'm just kidding.

Oh, I know those guys.

Yeah, yeah. They literally were like, dude, you talk about WWF all the time. You know, we train down in Orange County. And at that time, Chris Bell was kind of like writing for this promotion. And like, would you want to do it? And I, man, I, that doesn't happen without them accidentally saying, like, yo, we train to do this.

Wow. His documentaries are fucking incredible. Bigger, stronger, faster. And then the other one, the pill one, what was that one called?

Magic Pill?

No, what was the one, the addiction one? That Chris released. But Bigger, Stronger, Faster is such a fucking great documentary.

The Bell family, I've been friends with them for a long time.

Great guys.

Yeah.

That documentary, like, blew the lid off of, like, the reality of steroids. Prescription thugs.

Prescription thugs.

That's another great one. Yeah. Crazy thing is, he got addicted to pills while he was doing that. Because he had surgery while he was doing that and got addicted to pills while he's making a fucking documentary on people being addicted to pills. That's how potent pills are. A guy making a documentary about addiction. He just thinks, well, I'm just taking these because I got hip surgery and I'm in fucking agony. And then gets hooked.

Oh, yeah.

Like, that's how crazy it is.

Yeah, they're strong.

Yeah, I would imagine. Did you ever have an issue?

No. No, as a matter of fact, I've had fusion in my neck, right pec completely detached, reattached, both triceps reattached, both triceps scoped, nose relocated. Like, I got, I probably am in like 10 physical surgeries where they got to go and correct something. Never taken one pain pill.

Wow.

I have all the prescriptions in the bottom drawer of my house filled. And it's weird because at every facility, the first thing they, the first hill they climb is pain management. You wake up from anesthesia, you're like gray and murky. And I've been in a bunch of surgeries and a bunch of different facilities. The protocol is always the same. Do you want something for the pain? Here, we got to make sure you take this with you because you're not in any pain.

Yeah.

Like, I understand because you, if you leave, if you're feeling okay, maybe you're high off adrenaline, I don't know. And then the operation sets in of like, holy fuck, this is a 10 out of 10. I can't, I need something. I get that. But I guess from falling down and hurting my body a lot, like, I know my pain threshold.

Yeah.

And when I, the worst one was probably the putting the whole pec back on and then attaching it. But when I woke up, I was able to, like, mess around with a stress ball. And I never took one pill.

That's amazing.

And I still have the full bottles of, like, some are labeled 2008 is when I had my first surgery. And they're just all there.

There's a lot of people listening right now going, I want to fix this.

You can count them all.

They're still good.

I'm going to find out.

Got to find out what John Cena's torso.

Yeah. It was weird because the medical staff couldn't believe it. Like, they're like, you don't want anything. No, because, man, it's a, I know how I am with this.

It's, yeah, it's a fucking slippery road.

And I would just, I'd be high on opioids all the time.

I got my first knee surgery, I think in '93 or '94. And they gave me, I got an ACL reconstruction. And they gave me Vicodin, I think. Pretty sure it was Vicodin. I took one one day. And I felt so stupid. I was lying on my couch, watching TV. And I felt so dumb. And my knee still hurt. You know, it was just like it was distracting me from the fact that my knee hurt. But I'm like, I can't be this dumb. I'm dumb enough as it is. I can't add to my dumbness with pills.

Gosh, I should have taken your idea. Could have made some cash.

I only made like a couple hundred bucks or something. I don't even remember. It was like in the '90s. But I remember just that one pill. And so then every surgery I've had ever since then, they always offered me stuff. And I never took anything. I got my other ACL reconstructed in 2003. Never took anything. I got my nose fixed. And it's like 2008, I got my nose reconstructed, deviated septum.

Yeah.

The guy was insisting that I, he gave me two prescriptions for pain medicine. And I was like, I don't want anything. I was like, is it going to get worse than this? He's like, it could get. I go, right now, it feels like nothing.

Yeah.

It's like, but if you've been, again, like you, you've been beaten up so many times. Your body, you're so used to just being in pain. And I think for some people, it's just the daunting anxiety of pain itself. It's like they just want a pill before they even realize, like, I could kind of just, yeah, it sucks, but it's not going to suck forever. It's going to heal. So let's just deal with the suck and just lay here. Put some ice on it or whatever and just relax.

And along with that, it's kind of like your body's natural way of saying, like, okay, maybe push a little bit more. Try to get a few more degrees of range of motion and physical therapy. Like, if those senses are numbed.

Right.

And, like, shut off.

Right.

First of all, you do feel just like, I don't want to do anything. So you won't work, in many cases, you won't work to do the work to get better, to get sick.

Right.

Or.

You just numb.

You don't know the messaging. You can't listen to your body.

Yeah.

Like, if it's really, really in pain, maybe your body's trying to tell you something. I don't know.

I always assume that people feel pain differently. I mean, I just would imagine. Like, people feel hot sauce differently. Like, some people, they can't have any spice. Some people fucking can have, like, you know, death peppers. And they're fine.

So, all right, I'll throw that out to the group. Is pain a personal experience?

I mean.

There's no way I'm as tough as you guys. So, yeah, it has to be.

But I think in other dimensions, you might be way tougher. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe, I think there's something.

You don't know, Tony.

I can't imagine the dimension. I went and visited a firehouse the other day. And I was going down the pole going, wee, like, you guys wouldn't do that.

I would do that.

So in that aspect, you're tougher than me.

Yeah, you can take ridicule. We can take ridicule really easily. But I don't know how what it feels like for other people. You know what I'm saying? I mean, I would assume that everybody feels the same. But you know, one of the reasons why I think maybe it is, like, it's different because my mom, my mom has a crazy tolerance to pain. Like, my guy who, my stem cell guy in LA, my mom had a real knee issue. And he was treating her as well. And he goes, it's hilarious. Your mother's just like you. She just takes it. Like, she doesn't even flinch.

Pretty sure I would be. Yeah.

But I don't know. You know, I don't know what it feels like to other people. But, like, when I got my ACL, my right ACL reconstructed, it was a lot easier because it was a cadaver. And I recommend it to anybody. The difference between a patella tendon graft recovery and a cadaver recovery is literally like six months. The difference is.

Really?

The cadaver was so much quicker.

Wow.

Oh my God. Because the cadaver, they take it. I mean, it's all swollen and everything afterwards. But it's somebody else's tendon. They take an Achilles tendon off of a cadaver. So it's 150% stronger than an ACL. They fucking screw that sucker in place. Little tiny arthroscopic holes, not nearly as invasive. And then five days later, you know, Matt Lichtenberg, I went to his party for his birthday party five days later, just walking around. And he was like, did you just have surgery? I go, yeah. It's like, it's not that big a deal.

Man.

Like, it feels fine. You know, it was so much easier. The left one was brutal. Because they take a slice out of your patella tendon. And then they take a chunk out of your shin bone and a chunk out of your kneecap. And then they use those to screw this new tendon that they created into the shin bone and into your thigh bone. That was rough. That one was painful as fuck. And it took a long time before it felt normal. It took a long time before I could go down on one knee again.

When was that?

You said that was in the '90s?

And then the other one was.

Early 2000s. 2000, like '02-ish, somewhere around then, '02, '03.

I mean, 10 more years of performance surgeries, 10 more years of medical.

Yeah. I just think it's the difference, because they still do that patella tendon graft. And I think George St. Pierre had it done that way. I know a bunch of people that I'm friends with had it done that way. And I was like, oh, don't do that one.

Yeah.

Do the cadaver. But people are worried, like, what if you get AIDS? Like, Jesus Christ, you're not going to get AIDS from it. Stop. And it's also, it's like, you feel better before you are better, unfortunately, because the way the tendon works. So when they replace a tendon with a cadaver, it's not like you have this guy's tendon in your body. What it is like is that tendon is a scaffolding. And then your body re-proliferates that with your own cells. So over the course of six months, my body had filled in all of what used to be a cadaver with my own cells.

Man, that's.

Because it's still soft.

That's always the concern.

It's always the concern.

In any, you feel good.

Yeah.

You're like, man, I can do this.

Especially animals.

And it's a little too hard.

Guys who are just used to pain and used to pushing, you know, and they just pop it out again. I know multiple MMA fighters that have had knee surgery and then blew it out while they were recovering.

And just a few months more, they could just, they'd be all right.

Yep.

But it's impatience. You want to get back in there.

And then it's even worse because you got to drill into the same holes and pull it out and open you up. And it's a more invasive surgery. They got to remove the screws. And fuck. Yeah. But I just, I don't think everybody feels pain the same. I think it's a genetic thing. It's just an assumption, obviously, because I don't feel what other people feel. But I think some people, just any kind of pain, it's just they can't function. They're just in agony. And I think those people are way more vulnerable to the pills.

That's a decent perspective. I definitely, I would agree with pain is a personal experience. Like, there are people who, I mean, I've seen people like, I can't believe you go through that. And then people will be like, but you get the shit kicked out of you. I can't believe you do that. It's all relative. I would be shitting cufflinks if you get that stem cell needle out. I would be sweating right until the fucking final moment. Like, some stuff I can't take. You know, it's like, I guess it is, it could be combined with like what we fear in life or maybe fear of hard work or fear of effort.

I think it's also being accustomed to pain. You know, so if you, did you wrestle when you were younger?

No, I played football.

You played football. Well, that's just like that. In that you're always in pain. I mean, if you're playing football, you're always colliding with people. You're always, you got to shoulders fuck with you. Your back's fuck with you. It's like, it's never-ending.

I've always said that there's something, there's some value into losing a fight.

Oh, yeah.

Like, I grew up with four brothers. And we kicked the shit out of each other. And I was not always on the winning side. So very early on in my life as a young person, you know what it's like to lose a fight.

Oh, it's very valuable.

And I think that there's a lot maybe to do with the pain conversation there of like just flat out getting your ass kicked and then being able to dust yourself off. I mean, like, I'll get you next time. You know, like, it's not over. You know what I'm saying? We're brothers. We're going to fight again. You know, like.

It's also knowing, like, why did he beat me? What can I do to beat him next time? You know, like, if you don't have that in your life, also, if you don't know what it feels like to get your ass kicked, you get a little mouthy. I mean, how many mouthy people do we know that have never been fucked up? And I think that's why. Like, there's real consequences if it actually comes down. You start yelling and you get mouthy. If it actually comes down to it. And we've all seen many of these videos on the internet where someone just don't, they don't know what the fuck they're asking for, what they're getting into.

And man, I'm not perfect. And there are days where I'm short of patience. But when it gets to that weird spot of like, yo, someone's going to get hit in the face, I always try to like lean on diplomacy.

Always. Always. Yeah.

Please, let's not do that because that fucking sucks.

And I bet a lot of people say to you, if I was you, I'd be fucking everybody up. That's the dumb people always say that. Like, it doesn't end with that. Then this guy gets his brother or he shoots you or they run you over with a car.

Or you think you're going to fuck somebody up and you get fucking handled.

Right.

Like, you never know, man. You never know anybody else's story.

You know? You never know. There's so many people out there that train today. It's so much different than when I was younger. Like, you would assume that, like, I assume that a good solid 10% of all men you meet have martial arts skills now. Because of the UFC.

Popularity of it.

Yeah.

Certainly in Western society.

Yes.

You know, the gym, there's a gym every plaza.

Also, there's so many kids that like watch UFC and then play practice with themselves. And you could learn a lot just doing that. Guys learn a lot just watching it on TV and then emulating it at home with their friends.

You can tell those who watch WWE because when those moments happen, they try to do some crazy move.

Oh, yeah.

It doesn't work.

Yeah. How many guys have fucking thrown their buddy onto a conference table or something? Because they thought it was the way to do it.

Oh, it's crazy.

You know, I mean, the fucking sheer amount of punishment you guys put yourself through is staggering. I mean, it really is staggering.

But thank you very much. It is all for the, like, it's like a pro football player, pro hockey player, UFC. I think the beautiful advantage that we have is that we can make choices on what we do. So when you're in UFC and they close the door, it's kind of fucking best person wins. You know, you got to, it's survival. When we're in WWE and we both step in the ring and they ring the bell, we're working together. We're working together to put on the best show for the audience. And in that process, you can calculate the risks you want to take.

Yeah.

So it's weird. Like, you can choreograph the risk, but you have to do it time and time again. And the schedule in WWE just changed. Like, to do 70 matches a year now in WWE is like, man, you're a workhorse. We used to do 220, 230.

Which is so crazy.

It's.

220 days of trauma in a year.

Yeah.

Because you're getting, no matter what, you're getting some trauma. No matter what.

It is.

A guy body slams you, something happens, you're colliding, you go off the ropes, you're smashing into each other.

I get such a warm feeling when first-timers go into the ring for the first time. It's like, oh, it's like a bouncy floor. And then they fall down once. And like the wind's knocked out of them. They're like, my brain moved. Yeah, yeah. Now you got to do that again and again. But it's weird. I've gotten to work with a lot of stand-ups. And WWE is kind of changing. I would say it's on the progression of a stand-up, making it to just like a stadium tour. But man, when I performed, my sweet spot, we ran very parallel lives.

Yeah.

And it's like, Friday you're in one place, Saturday you're in another place, Sunday you're in another place, Monday you're in another place, Tuesday you're in another place. One day to drop your shit, one day to catch your flight out, do it again. Like, it's kind of, we're kind of like touring stand-ups in that regard.

Very similar.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you're responsible for your own trans. Like, and I'm speaking from my day. I don't know how it is now, because I got one left and then I'm done. But you were responsible for your own transportation, booking your own hotels. Like, you were, they were just like, hey, we're starting here, we're ending here, good luck. Which is awesome, because you create, people are really independent when they go through that fire. And you weed out the people who don't want to be there.

Yeah, because just the sheer work, the sheer workload.

Making those clubs and like making, doing a tour. It's.

Also the adrenaline. Like, it's like, what do you do after a night?

Dude.

Like, most jobs, people can't wait to be done and then go home and relax and fall asleep. Where if you were doing stand-up or obviously wrestling, you were just.

You're done late at night and you're like, man, what the water rush?

Yeah.

Fuck. What can I do better? This fucking killed. And then it's 4 in the morning.

Yeah. You're buzzing.

Yeah.

You're buzzing. And it's also, it's really hard to have any kind of a normal relationship because you're just constantly not home. You're constantly gone. Like, even your friends, like you really, as a touring comic, the best thing that I ever did is start taking friends with me on the road.

Yeah.

Instead of just working with like random guys that I didn't know in different towns. Those are fun sometimes. Sometimes, like, you know, 2 out of 10 times you meet a new friend.

Yeah.

8 out of 10 times you're with some annoying alcoholic who, you know, who fucking sucks. And they're annoying. And then they want to take you someplace. And you know, you get in trouble.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's certainly the normal life aspect of it. It's also like at full tilt, it's a very absorbing thing. It's a very selfish thing. So I think not only you don't work regular office hours and you're a nomad, a gypsy, but especially from a WWE perspective, you have to, like you're a startup founder. You have to wake up thinking about it. You have to think about it all day. You have to go to sleep thinking about it.

Right.

And it's people who are in your sphere, at least through my perspective and my journey, man, if you were in my gravity from like 2002 to like 2019, I wasn't a part of a team. You did it my way. Like, bus leaves at 10. If you're there at 10:01, you're a fucking left. Like, we're doing this and we're training here and then we're doing this. But it's so the end product is good. So like the dream job of like, man, I never the six-year-old kid holding the paper belt can be an adult holding the real belt and get shekels for doing that.

Yeah.

You know, so that it's also, for me at least, it was that as well of like laser focus, all things WWE.

Well, it's that in everything that you do where you want to really be successful.

It takes, saying yes to the thing means no to everything else.

I had Jensen Huang on the podcast the other day, who's the CEO of Nvidia. Like, one of the biggest companies on planet Earth. Huge company. Fucking dude still to this day works seven days a week. And he was talking about when he goes on vacation, I go, do you go on vacation and just put it all down? He goes, no, I work. He goes, even when I'm with my family, I have to work. I'm working. I work seven days a week. I don't take a day off. I love it. And he goes, and I'm terrified of failure. He goes, that's my motivation. My motivation is not, I want to succeed.

Yeah.

And every day I show up saying, if I don't do this, we could fail and I'm going to work seven days a week. Everybody thinks they want to be a CEO. You think you want to be a billionaire? Like, you want to do that? You want to do that when you're 60 years old? Do you want to be working seven days a week? All day long from the moment you wake up, he wakes up at 4:30 in the morning. He says he answers thousands of emails a day. I'm like, what? How are you, how is that even fucking possible? Gets up at 4:30 in the morning, answers all these emails, works all day long, constantly problem solving, making AI chips.

Yeah.

But that's with everything. You want to be at the top of the heap?

When you see mess.

There's only one way.

Yeah. When you see something difficult look easy, there's a bunch of 4:30 in the morning wake-ups that made that happen.

I think with everything in life.

Yeah.

Anything in life where you really want to excel at it, there's no shortcuts.

Yeah.

It doesn't exist. That weeds a lot of people out.

It does. It does. And there's a lot of, man, armchair quarterback is the easiest and best position on the field.

Yeah.

I could do that. All I needed to do is do this. Sure. Go right ahead.

Yeah.

Take your best shot.

Yeah. Good luck.

Yeah.

It's interesting because it must weed out so many talented people. There's probably a lot of talented people that you've seen over the years that just didn't have that drive to constantly improve and succeed and really be thinking about what they're doing all the time.

I like that statement because I think the talent is doing it all. You could have a.

No, you got one. You could smoke if you want. I don't care. We have fans in here.

Yeah.

We have fans. Let's suck out all the smoke.

Okay. I think the statement of, man, so many talented people didn't make it. They may have, they may be an acrobat. They may be a fast talker. But that's not the only attribute that makes one special. You may be a great joke writer, but man, if you don't master stage presence, I mean, you may be a great joke writer with stage presence, but if you can't lug the tour.

Yeah.

You're not talented for it.

Well, it's really the grind.

It is.

In everything.

The all-encompassing thing. So when someone with great athletic ability decides that it's not for them, because eventually that is one thing about WWE, for all the arguments of like backstage politico, everybody understands the sound of money. And no one refuses it. Like, I fucking hate this guy, but I got to give him another match. It may not be, but I now have to give him a 10-year contract. But when they go out there, if the noise is there, even if the they's fucking hate you, you get another match.

Yeah.

Like, everybody fucking hated me.

Why'd they hate you?

I was just real different. Like, I was just really different.

In what way?

So I didn't rock, I didn't ruffle any feathers when I kind of entered the business, kept quiet, did my stuff, but I also didn't connect with the audience. And I don't know, maybe you guys see this in stand-up or not, but then I got like a personality of like the white rap guy, like the white hip-hop guy.

You know about that?

Yeah.

But like.

Ergonomic.

I fucking went, I fucking went all in. You know, Urban Gear, like, and I'm a hip-hop head. So it's like, oh, man, this is my sweet spot. This is the avenue. This isn't all of my personality, but this is one level that I can show that I think everyone will get. So if you go to Madison Square Garden, you get it. But if we go to Wheeling, West Virginia, you'll also get it. And you may like it in some places and hate it in some places, but everyone will get it. I will not be selling apathy. But in doing that, I never followed dress code.

And then the people behind the curtain were like, ah, the kid's disrespectful to the business. He doesn't care about the business. All the while, I just want to keep my fucking job. You know, so the they's behind the curtain weren't really invested, but they were also humble enough to be like, there's noise out there, got to give them another match. And one match at a time, times 23 years of compounding interest, we're here.

What did Vince think about your hip-hop persona?

Hated it and then loved it. He hated it and then loved it. And I think, I think I'm thinking for somebody, but I think from his perspective is, like when I hear somebody's idea for a personality, man, I want to be this sports agent guy or whatever. Oh, yo, I have the idea of what that is in my head. And if their projection of that idea doesn't match my projection of that idea, I'm like, ah, fuck, I hate it. But that doesn't mean it can't work. So I think what maybe would happen was my perspective of the white hip-hop guy from the mean street of West Newbury and Vince's perspective of John Cena, the rapper, we probably missed.

Well, it's probably that fear of being fired that like keeps you on the edge.

Dude, that was it. Of like the Nvidia guy of like, I don't want to fail.

Yeah.

I got the sit down of like, hey, we're going to cut you because it's not working. Like you're out there for your matches. You hear the same thing. It's not working. And there's no argument there. I'm like, fucking, all right. I got to touch the sun. I got to make it. I got to play for the Yankees. I got my one at bat. I'm Moonlight Graham. And then they heard me rap in the back of the bus. I was like, man, Stephanie heard me rap in the back of the bus.

Yeah.

And was like, yo, you want to do that on TV? I'm like, lose my job or fucking rap? Yeah, let's go. Let's do this.

Yeah. So Stephanie's idea?

And it was a fucking accident, dude. It was an accident. It was my final, my final overseas tour for the WWE. And the boys just spend time. Like that's the one time they get the whole group together is overseas because you don't want to be hurting cats like in Amsterdam or something. Everybody rides on the bus. You go from town to town. So like to pass the time, the boys just do whatever. And they were freestyling on the back of the bus. And I normally just fucking kept to myself because I was raised in the environment of like, keep your ears open, keep your mouth shut, don't do anything unless spoken to. So I did that.

Yeah.

And Stephanie was like, how the fuck did you remember all that? I'm like, no, no, it's freestyle. You just make it up. And she's like, well, make up something about me. And we were boarding a plane. And I literally like utilized the plane, the people getting on the plane, what she was wearing, what she was eating. She's like, would you do this on TV? And that's where we got a chance.

Wow.

And it wasn't like off to the moon. Like I got a shitty chance on a small spot and that worked. So then I got moved to like the dog shit Saturday night program that nobody watches. But the cool thing is no one's watching. So like I could do whatever I wanted. So I started saying more racy shit and dressing more outlandish and having more personality and like claiming ownership of the show. I call myself Mr. Saturday Night. And it's the shitty show. You don't want to be Mr. Saturday Night, but I did. And then that got another match and got another match and one by one kind of brought me here.

Wow.

Just a fucking happy accident, man.

That's crazy. All the way to.

And even when the bells were like, hey, you want to, the whole thing's a fucking accident. You want to start training? Fuck, yeah, sure. All right. Great. You want to start rapping? Yeah, fuck it. Sure. This is what happens.

That's amazing.

It's a happy accident.

And for it to go all the way to last year's massive heel turn.

Yeah.

He went heel, dude.

That was this year, by the way.

Yeah. Yeah, that was this year.

Yeah. It's been a great year.

It's been a year. Yeah, that was. That was a mania. And man, one literally, perhaps, other than maybe Hogan, right? The greatest heel turn in wrestling history. When a good, good, good, good, good crowd-pleasing guy goes bad, bad and dark, you had moments, the things you were saying, the way you were saying them, epic. Iconic, iconic heel turn. Cold, dark, working with the rock, he was in cahoots.

You can like see the people's faces. That's the fun thing.

Yeah.

The stuff is so simple, but it's the, if you take out the crowd in that situation and just put those three guys, it is really fucked up what we do. But when you add the audience in the back and all of their faces and what's going on, that's what makes it really good.

Bro, even your face, you got like a mean guy face all of a sudden. It's like you look like a different person. That's interesting.

I was having a bad day.

Well, this is also when you'd already done a bunch of acting.

Oh, yes. This is this year.

Yeah.

Yeah. This is February this year. Yeah.

How much of the creative control do you have over the aspects of that heel turn? Like, for example, one thing that I thought was the coolest.

My idea.

I was in the front row of WrestleMania behind the Spanish announce table. So I'm directly across from the entrance, you know, the giant WrestleMania is a football stadium in Las Vegas. And there was no music and it was a black background. Normally, he's the most color with the most iconic, loud, wild music, no music, black background, and in white letters it just said Cena. And you just walked out with, literally, the statement was, I'm not here to entertain you people, basically is what it felt like.

You're so entertained. I mean, I want to entertain you. Fuck, I fucked up.

Yeah, I have a degree in pro wrestling, but my master's is in heeled them. Like it's like the bad, I just love a bad guy. And even ever since that bad guy turn, I feel like, and I feel like most bad guy fans do, now newly connected with the back to the return of the good guy Cena.

Yeah, there it is.

Oh, I mean, it was literally just.

I used to come out like a Tasmanian devil.

Yeah.

And then it's just reversed it all.

And it seems like nothing, but it's iconic. Just cold as ice. Everyone else for four hours coming out with colorful music and pyro and all this stuff. And there's the guy that normally did it the best and the biggest, just really not giving a fuck.

And WrestleMania, if you're going to do it, like you give your best entrance for WrestleMania. And this was, I guess we were going for the shittiest one.

Oh, but it just rang the opposite and simple and true. The Octagon isn't just in Las Vegas anymore. It's right in your hands with DraftKings Sportsbook, the official sports betting partner of UFC. Get ready because when Dwavish Willie and Yan face off again at UFC 323, every punch, every takedown, every finish, it all has the potential to pay off in real time. New customers bet just $5 and if your bet wins, you get paid $200 in bonus bets.

So like, for example, those things, those details, that's you mostly pitching to the creative team? Like, for example, like the, even just the white letters, the black entrance, is that, how does that kind of come together?

So I think that's, and I've been lucky enough to kind of take this perspective of not knowing everything and realizing that even with 23 years of fluency, I'm not the smartest guy in the room. I don't know the technology they have and what they can do. Now, granted, a black LED board, I could probably come up with that, but what I like to do is lean on my resources. Like, hey, let's go to production and see what production is thinking. And I don't want to tell them what to do because I want to hear their ideas first.

Yeah.

And production was like, what if we just went basic? I'm like, how basic can you go?

Yeah.

What if we just blacked everything out? Yeah, but I know from what you guys have said, you also like to light the, no, no. What if we just black everything out? You guys would do that? Oh, that sucks. Yeah, let's do that.

Yeah.

So it's not me with all of these things. I don't have enough depth of field to touch all the bases, but I will go to every department.

Yeah.

And say like, okay, entrance is a big part of what we do. What do we do for lighting? What do we do for production? Go to camera. Like, how do you guys want to shoot it? And then it trickles down when you talk to the talent you're working with. How do we portray this message? And then, of course, it starts at the top with creatively, I want to make you a bad guy. So we're going to do that. Okay, sure, we're going to do that. How do you want to do that? But I think it's getting, we have a lot of talented people and just allowing them to do their job and let you know like, oh, I was kind of thinking this. And then tell them, yeah, that's a good idea.

Yeah.

You know?

That's amazing.

Because I don't know what I miss if I'm making all the demands.

To show you the contrast, his opponent that night came out to, I think it was 40 people on red, white, and blue dirt bikes.

Dirt bikes.

All dressed like American people.

Nitro circus.

He comes out elevated from inside of the stage wearing this super gaudy mask that he has to take off. Fireworks, fireworks, fire, sparks, smoke, all of these different things. And he just comes out blank face.

I just got my bunk sock on the back.

Yeah.

Right on. There you go.

It's so funny hearing Tony talk about this because for people who don't know, the way Tony runs Kill Tony is basically a version of a WWE.

Event.

Event. I mean, it really is. Like when he does the arena shows, he has everything set up like a WWE event.

Yeah.

I mean, even the thing we did with Shane, when Shane was playing, when Shane was playing Trump, when Trump and I were supposedly feuding online, Trump had said something about me online, and then Trump's talking shit, like as Shane's talking shit, and then the music plays, and I show up behind him. It's pure pro wrestling.

Oh, yeah.

It's pure pro wrestling. And MSG's on their feet, shocked, you know? You're surprising this crowd that thinks they're just there for a comedy show.

Yeah.

Well, there's the panel. I guess that's what we're going to have tonight. But the surprises, the ups, the downs, and then he brings up Joey Díaz. So it's like boom, boom, kind of like that big finish at Mania that I was talking about.

Yeah.

Superstar bringing up a superstar, you know, music, music, smoke, fire.

Yes.

All these little things.

The more you make it important, the more important it becomes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

As what he's saying is like when Trump was there, this was as Trump was running for president, Trump thought that I was endorsing RFK, so he got mad at me. So I said, I am here to endorse someone, and I brought out Joey Díaz.

Which is great.

Because you get a good reveal, but you get a different reveal.

Yes.

And it's like.

And everybody went nuts. But it's like the audience, they're into it like they're into pro wrestling. They want all the heel turns. They want all the chaos. They want all the pageantry and the fire and the explosions and all the shit.

Man, you get any live audience, they're into all that. Like watch a college football game.

Right.

Watch a soccer game overseas or football, as they would say. Like the fans, it's like a group think of energy that's fucking nuts.

Yeah.

Like audiences want it. It doesn't matter where you're at. Like what, man, when comics just go out and light up a stage and they have that fucking stage presence and they just slay a set, the fucking audience is rolling in the aisles. Like you let them in and they can help make a joke that might not hit the night before slay. Like it's all about the moment. It's all about being there and reading the people. And the fun thing about WWE is you can go out there with an idea and kind of, I can only imagine this as kind of like stand-up where if you got your set and you tell the first joke to crickets, you may try another joke.

Yeah.

So we go out and do something and, oh, man, they're into it. Great. All right, we have them. We just got to maintain their attention until we get to act three, essentially. But if you hear fucking crickets, you're like, all right, we're switching it up. Fuck it.

Yeah.

Pivot right now. And that's the beauty. That's one of the things that I love the most is the, it's not just me and the other person out there. Like the audience is the act. Like that moment only means something. If you put a blue screen behind the people, it is super fucked up. Like what the fuck are they doing and why does that mean anything?

Right.

But when you let the level of the audience and everybody's on their feet and they go, no. Like it's fucking everything. It's everything.

That's why Tony's so interested in the coordination of it all and the setting and the sabotage and all the chaos that's involved in all of it.

But these are human emotions that are universal. Everyone understands betrayal, jealousy, anger, disappointment, failure, excitement. Like these are universal things that if we don't speak the same language, you still have felt these things. And you could watch that. No one spoke in that clip. But you could watch that anywhere in the world and be like, that kid just got fucked over.

Right.

Oh, what's going to happen next? Like that's the beautiful appeal of it. You know, we don't hit too far above our weight class. Like we try to send large scale universal messages based on true real human emotion that we all know.

Yeah.

And up to that day, that moment, like even that thing that we were just telling you about me bringing him coming out, that being a reveal, him bringing up Díaz was coordinated literally, I think, 15 minutes before go time.

Yeah.

Like literally me with a big piece of paper going, hey, Joe, what if we did this? He confirms it. So I go to hair and makeup where they're finishing up Shane as Trump, which in itself is just hysterical. I pitch it to him. He loves it. I go to Díaz. I say, Rogan's going to bring you up. And the thing happens quick. Whereas with almost, you know, every form of entertainment that we're used to, other than wrestling and like kind of, you know, Kill Tony in this instance, everything's so pre-planned.

Sure.

That if we over pre-planned it, we wouldn't have had the topical RFK endorsement because it was like news that day.

Yeah, sure.

And so again, that inspiration, you know, totally comes from there. Because what else is doing that at MSG? 10 minutes before the show, reorganizing things.

You're on a special show.

So now we have to go to production and go, have Rogan's LED ready and then Díaz in that order, you know? It literally comes from that.

And when it goes right, there's not a better feeling in the world.

Exactly. I just get to sit back and watch.

Yeah.

But it's so funny that that connection with pro wrestling is really why you've made Kill Tony the way it is.

Yeah.

Like without your love of pro wrestling, it would be such a different show. Like if it was just run like a traditional stand-up show.

Right.

There's so much else going on that makes it the biggest show.

Yeah. Well, it's long-term storytelling. We had a guy on on Monday that had been doing it 14 years. And man, he just, his timing was off. He struggled. Even after the minute, I go, you've been doing it 14 years? He goes, yeah, man. I go, how do you make money? He goes, I do this. I go, you do this for a living. He goes, yeah. I go, you must have better material. I'm going to give you another shot. Do another minute. Here we go, ladies and gentlemen, and I introduce him again. And he bombs again.

Yep. And then, boof. And that's kind of the sadder thing, right? Is starting hot and then never being able to touch that again. Have a moment like your first time.

It's like we were talking about people with talent. We all know someone who killed during open mic days that we were like, wow, this guy's going to be huge.

Yeah.

They have like undeniable talent and they just can't manage it. They can't figure it out. They self-sabotage. They get addicted to drugs or alcohol, whatever it is.

There are so many things.

Yeah.

It's not just the ability to go out and do the task well.

Right.

There's so many variables that will fuck you up.

Yeah.

Dude, you're right. So many gifted people have just that roadblock in front of them.

Which is why I think conversations with successful people are so important because you get to hear those stories. You get to hear, like with Jensen the other day, he was talking about how Nvidia was basically bankrupt. They were on their way out and someone gave them a chance. Like some one guy that was an investor gave them a chance and then they wound up becoming successful. And then there was these moments. And people need to know that you're going to have those hurdles. You're going to have those roadblocks. You're going to have to figure out how to adjust.

Yeah, but a lot of the time, man, sometimes we'll be in it. So I've been through like three generations of knowledge and learning, 23 years in the business operating at a high level. I have seen thousands. And like it is the, man, if you're a stud in PeeWee Football League, then you go to this junior high school and then you're the number one player in college. And then you're the number one player in high school, number one player in college. Eek out a spot in the NFL and then a year later you're gone because the funnel just gets so thin.

Wow.

In five or six years, I need one because my top guy right now, my Roman Reigns and Cody Rhodes and the Charlotte Flairs and Becky Lynch's of the world, like they'll last half a decade to draw. Maybe if we're lucky, maybe we'll get it more. They can, you know, maybe parlay it into a decade or two. But that's an anomaly. You got to play the legit math of like after five years, I better have somebody in the on-deck circle. So out of like 5, 6,000, I just need one. But it's still, everybody's biting their fingernails of like, we don't have the person yet.

Yeah, that's the parallel of stand-up.

Yeah, it's, man.

So, you know, there's so many people that we were talking last night in the green room.

It's thousands. And when I see them like in the ring do stuff, I'm like, I could never do that. But they just won't, they just don't make it.

It's just there's so many things that fuck people up. So much self-sabotage.

Dude.

So much inability to stay the course.

And our own worst enemy.

Mm-hmm.

You know, I don't know.

Yeah.

I don't know. Yeah. Happy accidents though. Fuck it.

Well, yeah, happy accidents, but not just that. It's you being able to stay on course and you being able to recognize that, you know, okay, this didn't work. What do I do? You want me to wrap? Okay, I'll fucking wrap. Like a lot of people would have been like, I'm not fucking wrapping.

That's beneath me.

Yeah.

I'm here to be a wrestler.

Yeah.

I'm not a gimmick.

I'm not going to be a buffoon.

Yeah. I'll be a buffoon.

Yeah.

Because it beats working a real job.

It's not only that. It's part of the entertainment of it all. Even the cringe aspect of it.

Yeah.

Where people are like, what is going on here?

Yeah.

Like it's great. He loves that shit.

Oh, it's the best. The best. You know who my guy is right now? Dominic Mysterio.

Love Dom.

Oh my God. So he's.

Were you?

No, you're here. You weren't at Peco, were you?

No.

Oh gosh, we had fun over there.

I bet. I caught a lot of it, yeah.

Man, that kid's good too. Like good human beings.

I happened to be in Salt Lake City doing a gig. I was doing stand-up in one arena and the WWE happened to be in the other arena in Salt Lake City just a few weeks ago. And I'm like, ah, darn. But I look it up and it's a 5 p.m. taping of WWE. So I hit up my friends at WWE. I go, I'm coming in. I'm bringing my openers, right? Anyway, Dominic Mysterio's in a triple threat match. And his whole thing is he's wrestling royalties.

Left twice.

Yeah. A brand new way to cheat. And the crowd, everybody's cracking up.

Yep.

It's a whole new, right when you think you've seen it all, this guy who you would love. He's literally like built like me. He flexes like Nate Diaz without flexing. And he's just braggadocious. Oh yeah, he thinks he won. But the ref's like, no. And hold on. I got to cut to Dominic. He just loves it.

Yep. There's our guy. Dirty Dom.

Dirty Dom.

Yep.

And the crowd just loves him. That's all of us right there. That's Matty Edgar, Joe DeRosa, Pauly Shore, me. It was DeRosa's first real wrestling event. He had the time of his life. Childlike wonder.

I love getting people in their live for the first time.

Yes.

There's something funny about a pro wrestler that's not built to.

Oh, oh yeah. And he's the champ.

Oh yeah.

And all these other guys, that guy pent it.

Man, he just whipped my ass. Dirty Dom, he just whipped my ass. For real. I just lost the intercontinental championships to that son of a bitch.

Look at him. Covered in gold.

Yep.

Probably what, 5'9", 100.

No, he's a tall drink of water. He's taller than me, but he's 170 pounds soaking wet.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

It's such a uniquely American form of art.

Yeah.

It really is.

It's weird because in pockets of the world, like Japan has their own style of doing it. Latin America has their own style of doing it. The UK has their own style of doing it. But this.

Yeah.

Like the Japanese is very strong style with respect to martial arts. The English style is very like catch as catch can, a real like technical exposé. The Latin American style, the Mexican style is high flying.

Mm-hmm.

The American offering of like steak, sizzle, apple pie, ice cream, 4th of July, everything, like huge.

And that's all Vince, right? A lot of it.

So is it all ever one person?

Right, it's not.

A lot of it is.

Yeah.

A lot of it is. But like promotions like World Class Championship Wrestling, we're some of the first to use music. Vince was the first to be like, rock and roll, get over here and get on cable and let's blow this thing out. I want to do it. It's not just something we have in a local VFW with cigar smoke and guys taking side action on carnival tricks. No, this is a fucking thing. And we are going to make this a fucking thing.

Yeah.

You know?

It's also a fucking thing where a lot of it is not televised because you're just traveling around the country doing these shows.

Yes. So the business model has kind of changed where media content is king now. So from what I understand from TKO, and I know their executives will correct me, but from my perspective, we have scaled back on the live event only offerings, which helps, you know, lick the wounds. It's weird. Like you don't bump enough or you don't bump as much, but you kind of need to get in there and bump to get your callus and to get your wind and timing. So it's kind of, you get your signals crossed.

Yeah.

I'm going to fake ring the bell.

Right.

Will people even get that? Who cares? Let's try it. Like he's the only one of those guys who will, or very few of those guys will stand on an idea like that. Where the other guys are like, no, I want to have a good choreographed performance because I want my stuff to look good because it's on television and going around the world. You know, I loved the non-televised events. But there's just, there's not a good business model.

So how does a young person coming up now learn how to fail?

That is, I think, a conundrum that we're facing. Because you're failing in front of the world.

Right.

You know, it's weird. You can have, it's like you work out your set, but you can't do it on small clubs before you go to an arena. It's like you would work out your set at home and then you just play the Intuit Dom or you play Barclays Center. Like you don't have a small room to be like, all right, it landed. Oh man, I got to rework that one. You don't ever have that. You just have this, you put it together in your head, you think it's okay, and then you're out there. So I don't know.

How did you come up with that?

It was a dare. My brother, happy fucking accident. My brother dared me to do it. Like when I was in the middle of the rapping wormhole, I made, I'm a platinum rapper. I made my own album. So like in making, yes.

That's amazing.

Drink it in, drink it in. In making the album, we would bring home all the tracks. And like my little brother was our test audience. And he would do this dance where he would like shake his head and keep his hand in front of him. I'm like, that is, man, look at you. He's like, you won't do that on TV. And again, I was on the programs that no one was watching. So it's like no one's watching anyway. Yeah, fuck you. I will do it on TV. And I did it on some meaningless Saturday show and there was a little bit of noise. So I took it with me on the road for the next week and did it on the live events that weren't televised.

Amazing.

Yeah. So I did it on a dare.

Wow.

But like I also had, I was in a place to be able to tell my brother, okay, I can waste two seconds on an inside joke between you and I. That's the dare. It's not going to ruin the match, but if you're watching, if you're the only one person watching Velocity that night, you'll be like, inside joke, got it. All right, let's like shouting out your gaming group. Like seven people get the joke, but this is one of those things where it kind of fit and it stuck.

Wow. It's just so many of those things in your life. So many of those like fortuitous moments.

Well, you know, admittedly, I have an optimism bias. I will admit that. But life will deal opportunity. It's a matter of understanding that it's happening. You know, don't get in your own way.

Yeah.

Like say, yeah, come here, sit with you guys. This is a new experience for me. Like, yeah, let's do it. Okay, great. Man, first wrestler to ever retire. Yes, that's a good idea. We're just going to do it. Yeah, but you'll never be able to come back. Yes, but let's just do this thing. Like life is throwing me an opportunity to create a year's worth of programming narrative that I think will be interesting. The alternative is to do what everybody else has done and maybe hang on too long. And people are like, man, you should have left a few years ago. No, let's do this. Rap, let's do this.

What'd you do?

I shuffled out there with an index card over my dick.

Oh, that thing. Yeah.

Yeah. But like, man, in a room full of not even peers or contemporaries, like the pantheon of the professional goal that you try to reach. I don't know any of these fucking people. I don't belong in that room.

Right.

And he's like, yeah, man, just kind of walk out there naked. It'll be a fun bit. And he's right. It would be a funny bit. But I could have got in my own way of like, now I got to fly. I'm exhausted. I'm going to make a fool out of myself. I don't know any of these people. It's my first impression. I can sit on the couch. Like that's the easy part. The tough part is like life has dealt you this opportunity. Fucking say yes. 15 minutes before the show when you get a good idea. The easy thing to do is be like, do the show. The hard thing to do is be like, yo, let's fucking swing.

Yeah.

So it's not like I think those moments happen to a lot of us. And it doesn't have to be a lottery ticket. Granted, holy hell, I've been given a lot of lottery tickets. But it could be something as simple as like, yo, you're in a crummy mood. Find a way to be kind. Like life just gave you an opportunity. The person getting your coffee was like, yo, have a nice day. You could stay crummy or you could be like, fuck, thank you very much. Appreciate that. Appreciate your time. Like that's an opportunity. You know, life is just a matter of like us reacting to what life throws at us.

Pivotal decisions.

And it doesn't need to be a world-changing decision. I think now, I don't want to say nowadays. I think we always think that like the decision needs to change the world. No, you just need to fucking commit and do something. As a 12-year-old, I want to start working out. And I liked it. And I just fucking keep working out. And now I can't live without it. It's part of my life. It's a fabric of my life. But in working out, I've learned structure and discipline, accountability, essentially budget. If you take in too much and you don't spend enough, you're going to have some excess.

Yeah.

You can move forward. And I can move forward and wholeheartedly apologize to those I've hurt along the way. And they don't need to forgive me. That's on their terms. I can't control that. But man, the sleep is a little more sound at night. Knowing like in learning this lesson or having this opportunity, fuck dude, I kind of trampled on your shit and I'm so sorry. Like I had such a shitty relationship with my dad. And just recently we've mended fences and he's 80, so I'm glad I've done this. Because I mean, we don't last forever.

Right.

The tough thing to do is like life is handing me a moment right now. And dude, I don't bat a thousand. I mean, it's more like Major League Baseball. I'm hoping 300 gets me in the Hall of Fame. Like if I can capitalize on 30% of the moments that life gives me and squander the other 70%, I believe I will go into the ground being like, man, I earned life.

If you can capitalize on 30% of the moments, you are in the 1% of human beings that have ever lived.

I earned life.

Yeah.

So I'm just trying to get that, make it to Cooper's town.

Yeah, that's the reality. And also the reality is if someone doesn't give you what you need, it gives you a desire to get what you need.

Sometimes it's a gift to not have like doting parents.

Yeah.

Oh my goodness. Like I said, I would never have gotten those, the beautiful guidance I got in life. I always had father figures because I was searching for it. And they found me. And I was also savvy enough to be like, this guy needs to stick in my life for a little bit. It sucks and he fucking pushes me, but I got to keep this guy around. Like just weird stuff like that. I hear a lot of wrestlers a lot of times. What do you want to do here? I want to be champion. Okay. The math of that's really slim.

Yeah.

Just give me a chance to go out there and get the noise and whatever else falls into place, fuck it, cool. Because what I want to do is just go out there and be in the arena.

It's funny because they talk about the noise the way we talk about the laughs.

Yeah.

It's the same thing.

It's the same thing.

Totally.

It's the same thing.

Yeah.

You know? And I don't need to be the most decorated person, but it's weird because in not even trying, I have a resume that people will now measure up against like, oh, you got to win X amount to pass the hurdle. So it's weird. Like I didn't even try to do any of that. All I tried to do is like, you'll just get me out there. And when you look at what I've done and you've followed a bit, like it was weird. I was in the main event of WrestleMania this year. And to talk to people, they were like, oh, man, that's crazy.

Yeah.

Like I did all sorts of shit, you know? But because it was never about like, I'm not a success unless I'm in the main event of WrestleMania. No, that's just a position with a ton of stress. Just fucking get me on the course. Just get me in the arena. Have me in section one shaking hands with people from Australia and I'll make it the best fucking time they ever had. It doesn't matter. Like just get me out there. What I don't want to do is sit on the bench.

Right.

You know?

So how did you go from that into acting? Like what was your first?

So originally it was a business choice. Vince opened WWE Studios and with the idea of if we make these guys movie stars, more people come to the arena. Now as a young 20-something on the road, people chant your name every night. I'm like, more people in the arena? That sounds fucking great. And his first movie was supposed to be with Steve Austin and it fell through. They were about to shoot in two weeks. So movie pre-production is way longer than that. But he was like, you're going to Australia to film this movie, The Marine.

Yeah.

And therefore my passion wasn't in it. I wasn't fully invested in it. I am fucking here with you guys right now. We are talking about this. My mind isn't elsewhere on other shit. I want this to be what I want to give y'all I got. So I'm here with you. I was never there in those movies. I was always back in, fuck, maybe if I had the feud with this guy or if I could have done this. I was never there. And you could see it in the performance. So I kind of got run out of the movie business. I did so many shitty movies in like 2009, '10. My best friend, agent Dan Bam at the time, I was like, man, we're never doing movies again, right?

Right.

I'm aspiring to try to be that. But it's basically the pivot happened when I was like, yo, if you just invest in this, the hustle and patience you put into wrestling, at least you know you gave it your all. You know, be coachable, be professional, be reliable, be interested, and see where the chips fly and fucking say yes.

Well, it's also you had the objectivity, like the introspective objectivity to look at your past performances and say, I wasn't really in there.

I wasn't. And I got run out of town.

Yeah.

I lost the job. So like, here's that mulligan. What the fuck? I'll never work in this town again. I will? All right, let's go. Let's try. What else could go wrong? They've already fired me. You know? So again, an environment and no one does it alone. The people I was around, Tina and Amy, the same way, like only show the funny shit, but try whatever you want. Like fail, it's okay. And just because you're around people who do comedy for a living, all we need is three seconds and we'll be patient enough to give you what you need to give us that three seconds.

Yeah. It's just such a fun story. You know, and there's only a few guys that have managed to make that leap from WWE. Obviously, The Rock is the big one.

Sure.

You know, I mean, he's the biggest one. Make that leap and now become a giant movie star.

Well, I think it's a leap a lot of people can make. It's not from lack of talent. We talk about like obstacles and like we're in our own way. WWE is all-consuming. And you got to remember, like I was their biggest act. So at 220 shows a year, for me to be like, hey, I need six months off to film this action movie, that really fucks with the bottom line.

Oh yeah.

So the answer's no.

Right.

You know? And now with less live events, it's still you want to be on television. It's like, okay, I need to somehow leverage my relevance with this to what it's going to do to film that. In WWE, if you're not, I'm going to retire on the 13th. They will be moved on by the Royal Rumble. And that is real facts. I will be forgotten. That is not a plea to sympathy of like, always remember me. By the Royal Rumble and the Rhodes WrestleMania, nobody gives a fuck. Because they're focusing on what the show is.

Yeah.

So I was just at the point in '15, '16, '17, where I was like, man, my body's kind of banged up. I'm a little older. I would like to take some time off. And how I talked about like every five years, you need to tell me to be on Dex Circle. So I'm running at the front for like '15. They needed someone in the On Dex Circle. And then they finally got some folks. So they're like, yo, we got folks. Yeah, go do the thing. It's fine. Go do it. So my passion for it was ignited at the perfect time when the office side of it was like, that won't affect our bottom line too much.

So now you're in the situation, you're going to retire.

Yep.

And then are you just going to go all in on acting now?

So that's, again, beyond my control. If I could.

Is that the goal though? Is that what you would like?

The goal is to live useful. That's it. The goal is to live useful and not lack like a depth of purpose in my life. You know, I can't control if the phone rings and they say, we want the kid in the picture. That's way beyond me. What I can do is when someone bets on me, do my fucking damnest. For every dollar, I want to give them 10 back. I want to show them that I want to show you your time was well spent today. I want to give you my heart and soul. And when I leave here, you may be like, not my cup of tea, but the fucking kid's all right. You know, like that's all I'm trying to do.

Right.

And when my time is up, it's over with, man. I'll do the rest of whatever life is.

Do you think about that? Like what the rest of life is? Do you have other interests?

Sure do. Sure do. Love messing around with music. I never read as a kid, so I'm reading more than I ever have. Love cars. I love to just drive. Like just being in a car and driving, not track stuff, just like going on long drives. Love that. I see a bunch of sticks. I love an occasional stick with some conversation. I love, boy, did I miss out on loving connections in my life? So I'm like, I have them now and they're fucking so cool. So if a day is just spent with friends or a week or like, man, with WWE, I've been around the world like 12 times.

Yeah.

I want to know what Tokyo is all about. I've been there like 20 times. I haven't seen shit. You know, like I'm, and I don't know if I'll ever get tired of that. Like I always have a curious nature onto what's next. I don't know what that'll be, but I never want to wake up and be like, man, life's taken forever. You know what I'm saying? I think there's always something to do with the day. So I don't know. Would I love to continue to tell stories and get paid for it? Fuck, that's a great gig.

That's a great approach to life. How did you develop this philosophy?

Dude, I'm not supposed to be here. Like I'm from fucking West Newbury, Massachusetts. I'm not supposed to be here. And that's another thing. There's not a day that doesn't go by where I look at someone I love and connect with and be like, man, what a life. I understand how lucky I am. And I understand I have been awarded more opportunity than one human being should get. And it's from what I've tried to boil down to it. The best way to honor that opportunity is to do your best to try to live a good life.

I think a key factor you're talking about here is gratitude.

I was born to honor the luck that I've been given.

Yeah.

And just try to do my best to live a full life. Like that's it.

Yeah. And that having gratitude about the life that you live and being happy, God, it's so hard, but so important.

And it's tough when you use that word because it's such a.

I know.

Think outside the box. Like, but nah, man.

It's a real word though.

Real thanks.

Yes.

Is hard.

Yeah.

Because you have to be thankful for the suck, for the pain. You have to be thankful for the lesson, for the journey. Like, and these are, again, these are all like slangy, hashtaggy terms. I don't know what the fuck else to call it. So I'm just calling it what it is.

But they've been co-opted by people to just sort of bullshit and use those words, but the reality of those words is strong. It's very powerful.

It's like grind. Grind is another hashtag word, you know, but like there is some realism to it. But from what I've figured it out thus far, that's my path. And when the facts change, so does my opinion. So we can come back here in a few years and I'd be on some other shit. But right now, that's kind of where I'm at.

Well, it's such a, the gratitude word has been really co-opted by goofy people, unfortunately. But it doesn't mean you shouldn't use it.

Yeah.

It's the real word.

And if the word makes you feel weird, come up with your own word.

Right. Thanks. Yeah.

Whatever.

Just having thanks.

Because I'm with you there. Some words make me feel gross.

Yeah.

Just about how overused they've been. But like I can't stray away from that one. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, we talk about gratitude all the time. We're always like talking about how we're living the dream.

Yeah.

Like just being happy.

What are we doing? Just shooting the shit.

Yeah. I know.

People are paying attention.

I know.

What the fuck you guys doing?

A lot. A lot of people.

If you're still with us, I can't believe it. This is great.

Yeah. I was thinking, I was talking to my buddy the other day, Peter Shore, the owner of the comedy store, and I was telling him about how just a few weeks ago, because now that I have a place that I like and a car that I like and a job and everything, everything's finally, it appears how I have always considered what the dream is that I was saying to my buddy the other day, who I came up with, who I really started with, and I'm talking about like 14, 16-hour days at the comedy store.

Don't know what you're going to see.

Don't want to make noise. You don't know what you're going to see, whatever. And I was talking to Matt a month or so ago and I go, I think I still owe Sandy a little bit of rent money because I just simply didn't have it back then. Isn't that crazy? He goes, you do. He mentioned it last time because we were talking about how successful you are.

There's an accountant right there.

So I Venmoed him out of nowhere. We haven't even talked since pre-pandemic. He's got a family. I'm out here, this, that. I Venmoed him a thousand bucks out of nowhere. And I go, 2007 rent money as the memo part of it. And he hits me. I'm saying thanks and we're communicating. And then I remembered that at one point I couldn't even afford the $400 a month for the couch. And there was another comedian that was a door guy at the store that did have the $400 a month because he was getting help from his parents.

Great for the spine.

Oh, just horrendous. Exactly. A sore back for two months, just in pain all the time, but doing what I loved. So much of what you're saying about enjoying the process, enjoy what you're doing. Because I really did back then. And I think about that now more. I've been thinking about that bean bag and that couch and that living room more than ever the last few months. You know, it's like that's talking about gratitude. It's like those are the things that, that's who you are, is enjoying that process, you know, and making the best out of it.

And in my case of a similar story and from what I'm hearing from you is like you wanted to be there. You were not going to give up the bean bag.

Oh, yeah.

There's a lot of folks out there who are put behind the eight ball and really have to dig themselves out of a trench. When I moved out to Venice and I was working at Gold, I was sleeping in the parking lot in my 91 Continental. And everybody's like, oh, man, you were homeless. I'm like, no, no, choice. It was my choice.

Yeah.

I didn't want to leave. My old man had a room for me. Nobody ever leaves West Newbury. My dad was like, yo, come back. You got a roof over your head. You get some fucked up job over here. You don't have to pay rent. So I had choice. I stayed in the car because I wanted to.

Yeah.

Life was great. I got to see like the bodybuilders of the 2000s. I got to train at the gym and shower at the gym and the rock came through. There's like an old picture of me in the rock somewhere where I'm in my Gold Jim club store shirt and he's fucking doing this one. And like I got to see all these people and it was fucking cool. And I wouldn't have left if they took the car away and I got to sleep in the parking lot. Like I was by choice. You know, you slept on the bean bag because you wanted to be there.

And the fun fact is.

Look at that.

That's just me in the background right there. No, no, no, keep that. Hold on. I'm taking the phones off. I'm going at, yeah. That's me right there. He had just taken a photo with me. And that's me.

Wow.

That's DJ.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's crazy.

That's 1999.

Wow.

Yeah. Fucking rock was white hot selling out every place. Probably staple center Anaheim coming in to press some weights.

Wow.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's crazy.

Yeah. So like that's where the perspective exists.

Yeah.

Because I shouldn't have even been in the fucking club store selling candy bars. I should be, you know, in West Newbury doing what everyone else does. Like that's the tale, you know? And I'm not. So I'm grateful for it.

Yeah.

Yeah. There's a lot of people out there on bean bags right now listening to this. You need to hear it.

Stay on the bean bag, man.

Stay on the bean bags.

24 more hours. Who knows? 24 more hours, something could happen.

Yeah. And the success will be so much sweeter. All so much sweeter if you do it that way. I mean, if you were a trust fund kid and you had plenty of money and your parents gave you a hundred grand a year to go out and pursue your dreams and they paid for your apartment and.

Man, you know, I don't want to fuck on anybody's flex. You're right, but at the same time, if you understand that, right? If you understand I was put on the board ahead of everybody else, I was born on third base. Again, that shit's beyond your control.

Right. But I think you need some failure to understand that.

So if you're grateful for what you have, you will swing and miss and be accountable.

Right. Because you can't really control what you have.

You can't control where you start.

Right. You can't control where you start. You control where you're going.

So if.

Or how you respond along the way.

Yeah. And the kind of person you are to somebody who was born on third base, I think also will dictate your perception from the eyes of others. If you feel you are greater than, fuck, we're all human beings, dog. Like nobody greater than nobody.

Right.

You know, everybody's out there struggling. And all of us, especially in this area of the pale blue dot, we all believe in capitalism. So the fact that you were born on third base means everybody's doing their job and the whole system's working. Like you can't think you're, when you start getting the like, I never use this word, I feel bad even saying it, deserve. When you start getting the deserve mentality of I deserve this. Fuck it. What the fuck do you deserve, man?

Yeah. That's crazy.

You know, have you earned this? Have you earned it? And if you feel as if you haven't, what steps are you going to take to earn it? If you're born on third and you feel bad about it, take some steps to feel good about it. I don't know what that is. But if you're born on third and you feel you deserve it, to me, that's fucking sprinting through a minefield, dog.

Yeah. That's not a good path.

And I don't ever, I don't ever want to fuck with somebody who turns like a hundred thousand into ten million or a million into a billion. That's good investing. I mean, that's the system. You learned how to work the system. It's just in the process, if you think you're better than, yeah, murky waters, man. In my perspective.

Well, it's just a terrible perspective anyway.

Like you're.

Because it's all.

Right.

It's all kind of fugazi. Like it's all just paper IOUs or whatever. It's just digital ones and zeros. Like if it melts down, are you really better than anybody? You know what? Well, a lot of times it's also a defense mechanism. You know, you pretend that you deserve it. You pretend you're better than other people.

Because maybe you don't feel enough. Again, everybody's walking through their own mile, but like I don't feel validated or I want attention or I don't know. I don't know, man. I don't know.

Yeah.

Yeah. It was crazy hanging out with Steph McMahon and how human she was and hilarious and human. I was telling her, because I was telling her like, man, you know, I always wanted to be a pro wrestler when I was a kid and then I realized I wasn't going to be tall enough and I wasn't going to be big enough. And then lately I've been meeting these guys and they're not that huge. And when I tell them that, they go, look at me. You know, Sammy Zane, hilarious guy, literally told me that. He's like, you could have done it. I'm like, yeah, I guess I could actually done it.

You could probably still do it.

And I was telling Steph that. She goes, do you think you can do a little something? I go, I can hit a super kick on anybody at any time from any place.

What's a super kick?

It's Sean Michael's little finishing move.

You would literally, you would faint from laughter because you actually know how to fucking kick through a wall. But it's a kick and.

And the goal is not to hit the guy.

Right.

Exactly.

Come real close. And she's so cool. She goes, oh, that'd be funny if next time, you know, I'm with AAA, you just super kick me out of nowhere. I'll sell it. I'll fall down the whole thing. I'm like, I know. Stephanie, this is crazy.

Here we go. There it is.

Yeah, that's a perfect example.

Man, this is, you're on it. Okay, so a guy flies through the air and you kind of catch him.

That's just one example. Like that's a really good example right here. But it could be from standing anywhere. It's just pretty much that high kick.

You can do that?

I can do that.

Are you flexible like that?

I'm flexible. At least I think I am. I don't know. We'll see. I was throwing a rock at a tree the other day for the first time in forever and I'm coming up about 15 feet shorter than ever before.

There it is.

That's what she looks like.

Whoa. That looks real.

Yep.

Yeah, that's on there.

It's really hit, man.

That's on there.

Two of the best right there.

It's on there.

Yep.

You really got that kind of flexibility?

Yep.

I don't.

You have to slap your leg at the same time and it makes everybody actually think that you did it. Like if I did it to somebody, you'd be like, dude, you just fucking kicked them.

Because it's a slap to land.

Yeah.

Like slide a hand.

Slide a hand when you punch.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Slide a hand.

Yeah. There's magic in the business, man.

There is.

I want to see you out there.

Hey. I wrestled with my pillow for like eight hours a day as a kid. I would do the entrances. I would record off of the cassette player. Remember how you used to have to record?

Dude, I had a whole, we had a whole league in our basement.

Yeah.

I didn't need the pillows because I had four brothers. We had belts, a league, personas. Like, and in one persona, I would get my ass kicked all the time and then there was one persona that could not fucking lose. Like we kept standings and stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's, it's.

Oh, yeah.

I don't know, man. I don't know.

That's amazing.

My brothers and sisters were all much older, but we had a music class teacher in my grade school that didn't give a fuck about his job. He would just sit in the corner and play piano the whole time and let the kids do whatever we wanted. And again, we had entrance music. We were all different people all the time. We'd run it back again the entire 45 minutes, jumping off of desks, cabinets, chairs. It's crazy how many injuries didn't happen. It's amazing how resilient kids can be when we were that.

The energy of youth, just bulletproof.

God.

Yeah.

It doesn't make sense how arms and legs and heads and necks weren't broken.

You also don't weigh that much back then.

Yeah.

That's a big part of it.

Man, he was so full of energy. Man, I can tell I'm getting old because I can be like, is that chair okay? I'm going to be sitting for a while. Am I going to be all right? Is everything going to be good? I'm like, oh, man, this bed's going to kill me. Just laying down like this. The bean bag? Oh, my God.

Oh.

I'd spend four hours in that thing. You'd have to cart me off.

I think I'd just sleep on the ground rather than the bean bag.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Back then it seemed like the better option.

It was the better option.

Yeah.

Probably. That's hilarious though.

Yeah.

Have you talked to them about possibly doing something?

I mean, no, not exactly. At one point, there was a little chatter, but.

Come on, dude. I think you can come up with it and say.

Royal Rumble's right around the corner. I have big shoes to fill over here.

It's 30 entrance. We need bodies.

Yeah. IShowSpeed did a good job at that.

Man, he got drilled out of his boots.

He took the streamer, famous streamer, internet guy, he took what's called a bump from hell. He got speared at the, was that the Rumble?

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, he was. Yeah.

That guy does some wild shit.

He does.

He got in the cage with Dan the Hangman Hooker.

Yeah. And he's like, he's game for anything.

Yeah.

He has like kinesthetic awareness. Like he's obviously an athlete.

Yeah.

And he's brave. Like look at this shit. Watch his mother just leave screen. Say it.

Oh, man. Oh, my God.

You can't fake that.

Oh, my God.

But like you also have to, the reason that looks so good, a lot of that is because of Braun, but also a lot of that is because of IShowSpeed. He committed to the fall and really tried to fall with snap and with quickness. Like he's good, man. He really is good. And like you said, like I've seen a lot of the other stuff he does. He does well. He didn't get in there and mess around, you know?

Oh, yeah. Well, he really sparred with Dan Hooker and Dan beat the shit out of him, but he hung in there.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's just.

Crazy enough to try, you know?

It's also interesting, these YouTube guys, they're just becoming famous and there was no avenue for them before. They would have had to have been cast in a TV show or become something.

With limited spots.

Yeah. And now they're doing it completely on their own and becoming huge. I mean, he's got like 50 million Instagram followers or something crazy.

Yeah. And a bunch of content and a bunch of revenue to match that and like.

And always working.

Always doing something.

He's always doing something. Put himself out there.

Bro, those guys hustle. And to all the content creators out there, people don't understand the hours. They may end up getting some financial reward, but when you break it down to hourly wage, they're working 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Like they don't stop because a lot of the content they make will have short shelf life. They're not essentially putting gone with the wind out in the universe. Like you're only as good as your next one. Not your last one or the one you did.

And if you drop off the map, someone will replace you.

Oh, my God.

There's so many fucking streamers. There's so many people that are doing content.

And they work hard. They do. They work hard. And even the ones where it seems like, man, to a perspective of like, I don't understand this, it's still the effort that goes into that. And it's not just what you saw. It's like, okay, you got to have a repeat performance and then you got to keep coming and keep coming and keep coming. Like I do a movie and like I said, it's out in 18 months. In 18 months, they've already put out 10,000 videos.

Right.

Like it's bananas.

It is interesting that nobody saw that coming too. Nobody ever thought that that was going to be a thing.

I just think it's because we get so used to stuff. We get so used to consuming in a certain way. When something is new for us, it's like, ah, man, I don't know if that's going to take off, but there are young people who are experiencing everything at the same time and like, no, this is cooler.

Right.

It's way easier to do this.

Also, he's really young. And when you start young, there's not a lot of expectations on you.

No.

You can kind of just do whatever you want. And if it works, great.

Not young and courageous too.

Yeah.

Like just go for it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's also a great example for other people that are thinking like, I'm kind of entertaining. I just don't have an avenue. Let me just start making videos.

You got a phone.

Yeah.

You got a chance.

Isn't that crazy? That's all you have to do is have a phone. It's nuts. You see the videos where he was sprinting with Ashton Forbes, you know, that super jacked guy that does that morning routine that everybody made fun of? Because he has this like morning routine where he dunks his face in water and then someone hands him his gold watch and he puts it on. It's like really kind of silly. Yeah.

You know, and he had a whole series of races with him because he couldn't believe that this YouTuber guy could beat him. Because he's like this fucking super jacked, ripped guy who a lot of his online content is him running and he just looks like a force of nature. And IShowSpeed beat him like three times in these races, but he didn't want to believe that he lost. So he wanted to do it again. Let's do it again. Let's do it again. And IShowSpeed's talking shit to him. He did it again.

Man.

So you can find it. It's very funny. It's very funny because when you look at the guy, you're like, oh, this guy looks like he could run like a horse. And IShowSpeed is actually faster than him.

I think he.

He's printed an actual Olympic sprinter. I mean, he started fucking around a little bit, but he held his own.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

That's crazy. He was like right there with an Olympic sprinter. That's nuts.

I think he won the gold, the guy that he raced.

Really? He's like right next to him. That's crazy. Like, and he's not even fucking training like that guy is. Imagine if he was. Like that fucking guy, if he wanted to like fully invest himself into sprinting. He's only what?

20.

20 years old.

That's wild.

Wow, really?

Imagine if that kid fully invested in that and then became an Olympic gold medalist as well.

So that's where my mind goes as well.

It seems like you can.

But also, why?

Why not? Because it'll make his streams even bigger.

Will it?

I don't know. I mean.

Or will sprinting against a gold medalist, getting in the cage with a fighter, getting in the ring with a champion, going to that guy's house and besting him at his own thing? Like he should keep doing that. He shouldn't go into one, the lane he's in, I think he's doing pretty well.

Right. It's almost better losing to the fastest man alive by that much.

Or like, so I can tell by watching that, like I love potential. And you see that and you're like, oh my God, potential.

Right.

This guy could, he could win it all.

It's funny video with him sprinting against that Ashton guy. Because it's kind of wild to see.

But like, for what? This guy's got the world by the nuts.

Right.

He should do what he's doing. Exactly what he's doing.

I only know him from that appearance at the Royal Rumble. Like he got booked on the Rumble because he has a big following. I'm watching the Rumble. I go, who's this IShowSpeed guy? And I go, wow, that kid took a hell of a bump. So I know him from.

No, this Ashton Forbes guy. No, look at the way this guy's built.

Oh my.

He's talking shit while he's running.

Oh, man.

And he fell. He's yelling.

40 million people. Is that right? The number of views in the corner? 40 million?

Unbelievable.

Wow.

Oh, man. Look at that.

Wow.

Yeah, they raced a bunch of times. And the other, didn't that other guy, he played football, right?

Not in the NFL, but I think like college football or something.

Look at this fucking size of him too. The other guy's fucking super jacked. Like that's his whole thing is online content. It's him running, being super jacked. And he has to deal with IShowSpeed talking shit to him. And he's saying like, play some of this.

The first one I slipped. Second one, you barely beat me. Let's run it again.

Well, I got to beat you three times.

See, when I see that, right?

Dan, let's go again.

Excuse me.

Yeah.

And they said, what is it, 25? 26?

That's hilarious. Talking so much shit.

So I see this and be like, this kid should be a wrestler.

Right.

Because he is athletic and he can talk shit and back it up. My God, this kid would, he would be a 20-time champion, whatever. No, he should do this.

Are they running barefoot on the fucking concrete?

I think so.

They have shoes on.

Oh, really?

Yeah. That'd be a bad decision.

Come on, Ash.

I think they're in there.

That was pretty close.

Yeah, but he started before.

Yeah.

Started before me, he still lost.

Started before me, he still lost.

Like he should be doing that.

Yeah.

But like you see the sprinting potential. I see the WWE potential. He should do neither. He should just do that.

Right.

And just keep crushing it.

Once he's already done WWE, I can't see that he'd probably want him to do it again.

Oh, my. I think he did a thing. He just went to like the performance center and did a thing. And like he's really good.

Really good.

He's got great instincts. He's got great timing.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

And he's only 20.

I mean, there's now like this is like full multi-camera, really good shooting. And he's speed verse pros, I think, because he's kind of doing that idea you just said.

Yeah, like where he goes to people's expertise.

Look at that, 46.2 million subscribers on YouTube. That's wild.

Yeah, so I think like he should just do that, you know? Whatever he's doing.

I mean, he's obviously doing it. Does he have like a team behind him that's editing all this shit now?

I'm sure. I'm sure.

Probably. Oh, look at that. He's learning how to do flips. Oh, that's crazy. So he's really in it.

Yeah. And I think it's just like show up for a few days and then go on to the next discipline.

Wow.

So he does everything.

Smart. Very smart.

He spent all summer going to a city every day. Everything was live streamed for like 24 hours straight. They'd go to a city, show up. What's the coolest thing to do in the city?

And do it.

Do it.

Like what kind of shit was he doing?

Go to the fair, ride all the rides, try all the games. There's a bunch of kids following him around. Next day, they were here in Austin going to Terry Black's. I think he went and did stand-up with Mark Norman in like New York City.

Like that's cool, man.

He went on stage for a second.

That's wild that he's so young too. Only 20.

Yeah.

And that talented.

And just brave and courageous and going for it. Like that's regardless of what you and I think, he's doing exactly what he should be doing. You know, he should just keep doing that.

And obviously not getting in his own way.

Not.

Yeah.

Not at all.

Right. Not at all. All the things you're saying, like capitalizing on every opportunity.

Story yet to be told.

Yeah.

Story yet still got a little life left.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

A lot of life left.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But still.

But we'll see.

He's doing great so far.

Yeah. Amazing. I think we wrap this up. It was a fucking awesome podcast. I really enjoyed it. Thank you very much.

It is a real big opportunity for you to have me on here because the WWE folks that you have had, I think I'm still, I only got one date left, but I still think I'm the active one. I hope this experience has been good for you guys.

That was amazing.

I hope you have more of the guys and gals from us in on your show.

Absolutely.

Every one of them's got a great story to tell.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think your philosophy is contagious and I think it's really good for people to hear. And I think there's a lot of young people out there that are really going to benefit from a lot of the things you said. I think it's rock solid.

That means a lot coming from you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

My pleasure. Tony, you're the man.

Awesome. Thank you, guys.

Appreciate you.

Just call it.

Bye, everybody.

Good power off. Thank you.