Transcript of Rich Paul Reacted To Our Show? | Local Hour

Summer is pretty much my favorite time to be a sports fan. The biggest soccer tournament of the summer just wrapped up. Baseball's on every night. Racing never takes a weekend off. And my calendar basically revolves around first pitches, green flags, and whatever game everybody's texting about. I realized I'm the MVP of my group. I'm always the friend that says, "Hey, I've got it. I've got a place. I've got some ice cold Miller Lite. I got the TV. I got a big comfy blue leather couch. Come on over." That's the behavior of a Miller Time MVP. I almost never watch the big ones alone. I'd much rather be with my friends. And if I am alone, we're texting, we're sipping on our Miller Lites, toasting the day, toasting the big games. For me, Miller Lite is just a part of a big game routine. It's brewed for taste with simple ingredients, clean, refreshing, and easy to drink, especially in the Miami heat. It's a true American pilsner and the original light beer since 1975. An all-American summer starts with an all-American beer, Miller Lite. Go to millerlite.com/dan to find delivery options near you, or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer.

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How am I supposed to feel about what happened with Chris Cody?

I— people must be mad, right? People get mad about this stuff, Dan. People take this stuff very serious.

Do you not think that they should? I mean, he's sitting here trafficking on our name, on his father's name, on credibility, and then just getting it wrong and saying the following.

So I can't be wrong?

He's saying he doesn't know what a source is, and I don't know what a source is, like How am I honestly supposed to feel as we build a media company? Like, you understand everything we're doing here, right? We're building a media company. We're zigging while others are zagging. Journalism is collapsing everywhere. Credibility is collapsing everywhere. It's harder to see what's true information. Bingo! And what's not true information. And he does something like this where he has a source, but you can't trust him or his sources.

So originally, I don't know why you would feel like it's a poor reflection on you, on your name. But then when you explain it in the sense that, you know, you're building a media company here, then I could see where it kind of looks.

Well, I feel like ESPN should fire him again. And this time I wouldn't bail him out like this time. They should. They should just thunder in there firing everyone else. Karl Ravich is gone today, evidently.

What?

Huh?

Yeah.

No way.

Is that not known? Is that not a thing?

I did not know that.

I'm going to check this one out.

They're letting go of a whole bunch of people. Ryan Clark was yesterday during, during a show.

It was supposed to be Tuesday morning, so it makes sense what you're saying.

Yeah. They're letting go an assortment of people.

20 minutes ago.

And so—

Man, I'm flipping my lid.

You know about that lid flip?

This is Mike Ryan's exclusive domain. He hasn't broken any news on this front in a while. He hasn't told us anybody recently who has had a great deal of work done.

I don't think I'm shocking anybody with that one.

You're not. But I do wonder, even in this time of, you know, just total chaos in the media as a whole bunch of things shrink, I do wonder where does someone like Carl Ravitch land? Like, that's an accomplished career. But I don't know that because ESPN does such a good job of making sure that the letters are what matter and no individual person is what matters, I don't think he can leave with the same following that Ryan Clark can leave with because he's more of a traditional sports anchor personality versus someone who would just take audience with him because he's an opinion giver.

I think play-by-play, maybe a regional—

it would have like MLB Network, right?

Yeah, that, that seems to be a logical landing spot. Ryan has his own media ventures, but today is going to be hard for a lot of people that are fans of that brand, that grew up with that brand. You lump in Linda Cohn with it. Linda Cohn, Carl Ravitch, Ryan Clark. These are not small personalities. These are big, successful people with over with in some cases decades at ESPN. Ryan Clark was at ESPN for over 11 years. That is a tremendous broadcasting career. It is tough to be at that network that long. We know.

Ravich, speak for yourself. Ravich is someone who became a play-by-play guy only because he was there. He's not considered— and this is not my opinion—

what was he before that? This is—

he was a studio guy that had to started adding that to his repertoire. I'm sure he went to school for it.

Ravich— I don't know that he did, actually. I think Ravich got a job because he happened to be there, kind of like Fowler did, right? Like, you're there so long and you try to extend and expand your career, kind of like Sidano's doing.

Yeah, but all those guys ended up doing, like, play-by-play in college.

But Ravich particularly, though, was somebody who was viewed in the industry as getting a job that others had more sculpted resume skill set for because he was a name who who worked there. I think he learned how to do that job on the job. If I don't have my information wrong, I'm not totally sure. But I remember being surprised the first time that I heard him do play-by-play because he's not— I mean, he's not really a play-by-play guy. He learned that job. You know, Boog gave Sedano great advice at ESPN at the time that it was a heyday, a sprawling, sprawling place that was hiring a bunch of people. He said, just go knock on the doors, go physically to Bristol, knock on doors and go into rooms and start telling people what it is you want to do, otherwise you'll fall through the cracks. It is a fascinating media time. I think I need to fire Chris Cody.

I sit by my tweet. I'm hearing things.

You are listening to the Dan Levitan Show in partnership with the DraftKings Sports App, now live in all 50 states.

As soon as I told Tim Kirkshin that the Marlins were a playoff team, they lose 7 straight.

So I can't be wrong.

Chris Cody has embarrassed the company. And I wanted to ask all of you, because, you know, we're kind of associated with this Heat team. In fact, I can say flatly, in the history of South Florida sports, nobody has taught me more about what it takes to win than Pat Riley. And we can make the argument that the Heat helped us build this studio just by being the only thing in town that actually had national relevance in sports the entire time that we've We were sort of growing and the Heat ended up getting us to the place that we got. And now we are again in this LeBron conversation as Rich Paul says he won't be rushed on a decision. LeBron, not Rich Paul. Rich Paul says he doesn't know when LeBron's going to make his decision. And Draymond Green is saying that Adam Silver saying that it holds up the schedule is something that will make LeBron wait longer as opposed to doing it quicker because LeBron wishes to show, uh, the league who's in charge still even though he's the oldest player in The Heat remain the overwhelming favorite to land LeBron James. I don't know what changed exactly.

Was it Windhorst's tone? Because Windhorst at the beginning kind of dismissed this idea and has spent all the time since walking it back. What changed here that made LeBron go from, uh, Miami's not really one of the favorites to, oh wow, Miami is the clear favorite?

As strange as it may sound, because of the way people are talking about LeBron and Miami really for like the last week, I don't remember another instance where national media is overwhelmingly now in support of said player joining Miami. It's always about how Miami's a terrible fit, Miami shouldn't do this, whatever it is. Yes, LeBron Miami was largely ignored by the media at first, but now over the last few days, it's like everyone is telling you—

But what happened? Nothing changed, it's just—

No, the thing that changed was what was anticipated to be a relatively quick process has been drawn out. And the longer that goes, the less likely it makes a place like Cleveland feel.

But is it just about trying to cut— because it's, because it's going on so long, is it about trying to find new content and new angles? So let's talk about how he's a great fit for Miami.

I think it's really just thinking, like when you were looking at LeBron's situation from the beginning, it was, oh, it's going to be one year, he's going to retire Cleveland. Then it was, oh, he'll take his chance to play with Steph Curry. Who cares if they're any good? It's the old guys getting to play, you know, with each other one more time. And as more time has gone along and we've realized, oh, this is going to be a legitimate basketball decision and a legitimate business decision for LeBron James, people looked at the Heat and went, wait a minute, that's the best fit. I think it is a fit thing because you start looking at all the options that he had and you're like, is he really going to go play with James Harden? Is he really going to go to Philly?

The fit is the same now as it was 2 weeks ago. Nothing has changed. It's, it's, it's—

everything is exactly the same except there's been a bunch of silence for LeBron and the Heat's pitch, no doubt, but initially everyone was pretty much resigned to Cleveland and a lot of people that were in the know were being fed that. Like there were people that are very plugged in to Klutch that were kind of saying that this was a done deal with Cleveland. And it's allowed a lot of influential commentators to chew on Miami a little bit and they're warming up to it and they see the fit if it goes beyond just the scope of one year.

I guess one of the things that changed is that Miami got Giannis. Like that's— all of that became official and, you know, just in the time since LeBron was told by the Lakers that he wasn't wanted there. Because this has been an amazing narrative shift to watch. He was rejected by the Lakers. He was kicked out of the Lakers and took control of the story. And the first piece that was put into the news stream is, wouldn't it be interesting with Curry? He's learned a lot over 20 years. I told you that when I saw Rich, uh, Rich Paul at the airport, he could not stop talking about content is king. Like, that's the thing that Rich Paul was talking about. And what LeBron knows is the longer he delays this, especially during this time of year, the more we will be talking about all of this, even though all the parties acknowledge all the information's in. There's no more recruiting to be done. There's no more contemplating really to be done. He's just waiting because he can. He's exerting the power because he can. What were your thoughts, Zazz, on what Riley had to say here?

For those of you who have not seen it, he spent the postgame show with us yesterday, spent an hour with us. What were your thoughts after hearing and seeing all of that?

I thought Riley did a good job of not answering the questions you are trying to get answers to. And he's like a master at it because you were talking to him for 50 minutes and I feel like I learned like one new thing. Otherwise, and I don't know if, I don't think it's his age. I think he's just a master at answering the question the way, giving you the information that he wants to give you. You even called him out on it one time where he went in a totally different direction. And finally you're like, you're doing a thing. Like you don't want to answer that and now you're talking about something else. And then he's laughing and you're laughing. And like, I thought he did a real good job of evading questions.

Well, I think he came in with an agenda and there were certain things that he wanted to do, certain posturing moves that I think he wanted to get off.

I want—

I don't necessarily—

Well, you thought— you thought he was doing like— Yeah, you thought there was—

I don't necessarily feel this way. I was talking to some Cleveland fans and like the takeaway was like, well, Riley really took this opportunity to sometimes subtly, sometimes not so subtly negative recruit Cleveland.

How?

By highlighting— you may just say he's just talking about LeBron's story. People that are from Cleveland are saying like, oh, you're highlighting the initial reception he got when he first left Cleveland, the fact that he's already accomplished everything he basically needs to in Cleveland. So there were some Cleveland people that were like, Riley, like, why don't you just sell Miami? Do you have to take some negative recruiting slant against Cleveland? I don't necessarily feel that way. The one thing that has bothered me throughout this, and I'm not sure lands great with LeBron, and you guys have disagreed with— I think it's kind of patronizing to be like LeBron has earned the right to make his own decision here. He's an unrestricted free agent. He's always made his own decision. I don't, I don't know what, what, what the motivation is behind saying that. I'm not even sure it lands great.

I don't agree with you there. Like, you think it's patronizing that, that he's reminding LeBron and everyone that it's his right to pick the next team?

Yes, it sounds even more patronizing when you described it that way.

To me, it's him essentially agreeing with everything Rich Paul and LeBron, for that matter, is about, where this is a business and he's allowed to make a business decision. He has earned that right in this business to do what he wants as a free agent.

Right, but he always had that right.

Well, not when he's not a free agent. I don't know.

No, but he's always done that. He's always had the power to do that anytime he's had the opportunity to move teams.

I don't—

I don't— something about saying it as a 42-year-old man, like, now you've earned it. I feel like that part's a little patronizing.

I think it's more about what Rich Paul has been saying, which is we're not going to be sped up. We're not going to go by anybody else's timeline. LeBron is going to make the decision that's right for him. And I've actually found both Giannis and Riley's approach of just praising LeBron, talking about him as this great leader, this great player. Hey, man, it's his time to choose, as opposed to some of these other teams that have seemed sort of needy and desperate for him to show up there. They've said, hey, we'd love to have him if he comes.

This is— and I know it's Cleveland people who are making that case to you, Mike— this is a Cleveland inferiority complex. That it's the whole year, you know, why are you talking about us? Sell LeBron to Miami, this doesn't have to be putting us down. I didn't hear it that way at all. That's Cleveland inferiority complex.

You don't think that the Heat feel— come off just as needy as the other teams? I mean, Riley said let's land another plane, like Pat's doing an interview at a curious time. I feel like Miami is just as needy as everybody else. And I, by the way, I think that that part plays with LeBron, who very clearly, I think, wanted this ego stroke a little bit. Yeah, to remind himself and everybody else he still has that juice after his experience with Luka.

Yeah, you could call it that. The Heat are coming off needy in that respect. The Heat are doing whatever it takes, whatever they believe will attract LeBron's attention in a positive way. And yeah, Riley at Giannis's press conference mentioning how we want LeBron is probably going to be positive to LeBron.

When, uh, Max Kellerman sat out for a while— Max Kellerman, I would, uh, say, is an industry titan, okay? He could have decided to do anything with his career. We just talked a moment ago about Karl Ravitch being let go by ESPN, Ryan Clark being let go by ESPN, and wondered what's going to be next for them. Max Kellerman chose to do a podcast with Rich Paul, LeBron's agent. That was his big choice when I imagine he, he had a number of different options, and the one he chose to me was a super curious one. But Max has always been ahead of the curve. He was on television in New York when he was like 15 years old doing a cable access show on boxing. He's always been ahead of the curve. All of these debate shows started with Max. IMAX was a thing before PTI was a thing. Max has always been ahead of the curve. For him to see the shift in everything that's happened and align himself with LeBron's camp in a way that makes them do the Game Over podcast, where this is the latest of what it is Rich Paul was saying.

I saw the clip from Levittard. They're releasing clips from his interview with, with Pat Riley, and Pat Riley ends the little clip by saying—

Dan Levittard is good, by the way.

Yeah, Dan's great.

Yeah, he's great.

Yeah, of course. And that's my guy. And but at the end of the clip, Pat Riley ends it by saying, look, I'm not calling Rich every day, bugging him about what LeBron's going to do. I mean, so but this is the thing.

Well, like, there's no getting around the fact that people right now are curious about LeBron.

Well, let me say this. I won't get into what's the latest, but let me say this. Pat's not doing that, but neither is no one else. And it's not because there's not a want. It's because I'm telling them, you don't have to do that.

He hasn't made his mind up.

We don't need what people are trying to perceive to put out there on all these other shows. And you got the older guys saying what they think. No one, I'll say it again, none of these people know anything. Nobody knows nothing. And I say that respectfully because we haven't made it to where anybody knows anything.

Wow.

I had that report first, Zazz. Are you ready to capitulate?

Nobody knows nothing?

I was first to report nobody knows anything.

Put it on the poll @LevittardShow. Can you say nobody knows anything? I say that with respect. Do those two sentences go together?

Now, when he says nobody knows anything, did he record that before Chris Cody appeared yesterday here?

Well, he recorded that after.

The timeline of events there.

Because we've been putting clips out, so this happened fairly recently. I'm encouraged by Rich Paul saying that you're a good guy. I feel like that moves the market price.

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Dan Levitar.

I got a Slater scoop.

Chris Cody.

He fucked us.

This is the Dan Levitar Show.

I don't know what to do about Chris Cody. To me, this is an egregious offense, getting something this wrong. I don't know why we believed this person. I don't know why anybody believed this person.

I sit by my tweet. I'm hearing things.

What do I do about the fact that Chris Cody, who is a progeny of Greg Cody, comes out and journalistically with his first major report gets it wrong, gets a lot of traction, but is now known for getting it wrong?

No, I can't be wrong.

I'm warming up to this is a really bad look for us because we're fairly credible on the LeBron front. We're— I think we're still appointment viewing when it comes to all things LeBron. Dan is an authority on it. Dan had access to Pat Riley were to be taken seriously, and on the other side you have Chris Cody doing whatever he was doing, and I mean that just on the gummy front, like whatever he was doing.

Well, how do we push— how do we push the agenda that he's Chris Cody, producer of the Greg Cody Show, as opposed to Chris Cody of Metal Ark Media?

We should distance ourselves.

Right, that's what I'm saying.

I would like to distance ourselves formally, professionally, by firing him for— I believe that if you do this and get it wrong, it is a fireable offense.

And he leaves us in the foxhole because he went on holiday and he set off a grenade, right? Like, that's our mess to clean up.

World Cup's over. You don't need to call it holiday.

Again, I'm going to keep asking you guys. I think you're just going to be in support of your teammate and you're just going to keep saying, yeah, there should be no consequences.

I mean, to be fair though, Dan, to be fair, he got 500,000 views on that. It's eyeballs what's going on. And he has the perfect out. The out is, hey, it didn't happen. LeBron must have saw my tweet and said, you know what, I'm not going to give this guy—

that's the perfect out, Tony.

Proud of our show's collective credibility when it comes out with conviction and reports things. Like, it's a bad look for Dan. And anytime one of the shipping container members comes out with a report, which is something I've done in the past, this is a knock on that credibility.

Oh, but Mike, you haven't gotten it wrong. In fact, I would say that you have used this platform to establish yourself as somebody whose information is good. One the few people actually that when you say things, you have not gotten a dent to your reputation. You've reported giant stories around here, including Messi coming to Miami. You haven't gotten any of them wrong. By the way, Andrew Marchant is saying that when he called Carl Ravitch this morning, uh, that Carl Ravitch hadn't known that he was being fired.

That's happening. That's, that's going around. This is not being handled well, and I think it's going to be a really bad day in a lot of instances in which they are not handling it the right way. Carl Ravitch certainly deserves much better.

So, uh, for those of you who do not know the details on our story, the place that I was most hurt by everything that happened at ESPN is that one of you told me that Chris had been let go. That's like— how do you know?

We didn't find out in the press. Like, we were in a— you were taping Highly Questionable and we were in a Zoom meeting of sorts.

But he— no, but he was let go and then you guys told me. That's not the right way either. What is the right way to fire somebody. You're supposed to tell them first. Ryan Clark evidently, reportedly, was told during taping.

They did tell Chris before they told us. Chris was alerted first. This one, I don't know, like there were reports that ESPN is worried about leaks, so they're not doing this the right way.

Well, there was a leak.

Yeah, I guess.

There was.

This is bad. I feel really bad for Carl Ravitch.

There was a leak, and that's why Ryan Clark was informed in the middle of his work shift shift because they weren't going to make it until this morning where this is all apparently happening.

That's a real tough look. I don't, I don't know what the play is there, but to have a dude in the middle of a show and then disappear, that's real tough.

Like, what do you do in that spot? Like, I, I don't, I don't know the correct—

I, I don't know. They're— the breakdown in communication is Ryan Clark was on that show.

Well, I think the breakdown is the leak.

Well, they didn't, they didn't want— just so you understand how it is that that happened— they did not want him to find out by getting off the air and then immediately checking the internet and finding out that way. So they tried to get out ahead of it by telling him before he read it in the press. But now, now what, what Ravich is getting today is he's getting the call from the reporter instead of getting it from his employer.

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying on the Ryan Clark front is you have whoever knows that this is going to be the decision reach out to one of the producers, one of the schedulers, and make sure that talent that is on this chopping block is not scheduled so you don't have to deal with a problem like that.

So I see the picture of Chris Cody behind Tony, and, um, I don't know why any of you would trust this person. Can you explain to me, Zazz, why this only got the traction that it did? Because he's on our show. That's the reason that it got the traction. That's the reason this wasn't just another gasbag who was on the internet who is saying a thing that has no credibility. So he has taken more credibility, used it to get the attention, gotten it wrong. And now Tony says, because we're teaching the wrong things around here, he's got the perfect out. He got the attention and it doesn't matter that he's totally wrong.

It's also the fact that he has followers on that social media like Mark Stein or Dave McMenamin, Don Van Natta, Mina Kimes, David Dwork, like real power brokers in the industry, in the information game.

Tony laughed a little hard at David Dwork while Roy didn't laugh at all at David Dwork.

I love Dwork.

Dworky. Well, it's just not a name you hear, like Dwork. I mean the surname.

Yeah, Dwork isn't— his name does work against him. But look at Chris Cody in this photo and tell me, does he have a bit of cocaine on his lip? Is this the Robbie Williams brand cocaine that is falling out of his mouth and is on his lip as he tries to break a story and instead breaks a media company's reputation? Because it looks like— it looks pretty clearly like a something on his lip that could be spittle. I thought it was spittle with Robbie Williams, and then you guys thought it was cocaine, and then he apologized saying it was just a mint.

Let's, uh, let's actually close the loop on Robbie Williams, because in true Robbie Williams fashion, he did release a video in, in such a charming fashion. Here is Robbie Williams, and for those listening in the, uh, in the audio audience, there is a sight gag at the end of this where there's a grand reveal. We'll explain it later, but first First, a fake sincere video from Robbie Williams.

Just like to apologize for the object that fell onto the microphone yesterday.

Um, it was deeply unprofessional and, um, people worried about me. Uh, but it's okay because I had several more.

So he's revealing mints in his mouth.

Mouth.

But questions still remain. Why would you stick the mint to your forehead, Robbie, is a question that I still have. But it is more believable than what the internet suggested, just given the security measures.

Down levitar!

For 5 minutes I was watching everyone just like, nope, not letting you in, not letting you in. So when I got up there, I had to say something, and I said it: cheaters never prosper. Chris Cody, my buddy, was saying, not today, not today. I think that was what he was adding. Yeah. I'm telling you, the response I got from this guy, what I said was amazing. Cheaters never prosper. This guy yelled as angry as he could.

I ain't cheating! This is the Dan Levitan Show.

I agree with Zazz on his take on Riley. I will say also that Riley and just about every coach I've ever met goes into whatever the press conferences are and the messaging of answering reporter questions questions with what it is that they want to say, and it does not matter what the questions are. They're just going to say, uh, what they want to say. So I don't think it's old age. I think it's a lot of experience from Riley on dodging questions.

And we all agree there. I think he came in with an agenda, and you were going to ask him what you wanted to ask him, and he was going to say what he wanted to say.

I mean, Dan, you asked him, where did it start to go wrong after Bam blocked Jason Tatum in Game 1 of the 2020 Eastern Conference Finals, and he started talking about acquiring Alonzo in 1995.

If I'm Pat, though, I think the smart thing is to not highlight the last few years where the Miami Heat have dipped in form and not put out the results.

Well, he wouldn't cop to a mistake. I asked him twice. I followed with the idea of what has been your greatest mistake on how you fell behind the Celtics, and his response twice was we should have lost more.

Yeah, I project success. The last thing I do is highlight recent failings if I'm Miami. I'm a big brand, I'm an attractive destination, I'm exactly what LeBron needs. I'm not talking about Jimmy Butler. That does not serve my interest here.

The only thing I found revealing was— because we all know the story of when the Big Three were introduced on the stage and at the last minute, because the deal hadn't even been finalized yet, the guys wanted the extra years, and so it ended up having to be a sign-and-trade, and Riley had to give up some draft picks. We all knew that. The part that I thought was revealing where then he also added, if he didn't have to give up those draft picks, he had moves lined up and ready to go with those draft picks to bring in other players. That part I had never—

yeah, it's, it's one of the big underreported things about what happened with the Big Three, about how Pat Riley essentially rebuilt the Cavs for them, and LeBron used that kind of okey-doke move. Give me additional years that I'm gonna end up opting out of and not actually take and rebuild my next destination. It put them behind the 8-ball, no doubt. But it leads me to ask you this question: LeBron did what he did. He, he won one for Cleveland that was immense, huge for his legacy. The, the Lakers one is always going to be looked at weirdly. COVID probably has a large deal with that. But Miami made it back to the Finals after losing LeBron, after losing Wade, after losing Chris Bosh to Klotz. They were in a tough situation after losing to the Spurs. No doubt we were all asking the same questions. Wade's getting older. Is this really the best place for him to win? It was a, it was a solid conversation back then. But the point I'm trying to make is, do you think LeBron wins 2 or fewer if he never left Miami? Because I think he ends up winning more than the 2 titles he won.

So over the years, Riley has said a number of things about this. One of the things that he has told me is that if LeBron had re-signed, he was ready to retire because he was going to leave it so that it would be a dynasty using— trying to use some of those other picks to have him end his career here and be here the entirety of the time. What I hadn't also heard from that conversation, he just called it extortion by Leon Rose, who runs the Knicks since. So now you have the Knicks are your reigning champions, and what Riley described is they're all getting ready to go out on the pyrotechnics stage, and that's when he lost the draft picks. That's when he lost the ability to trade those people. He calls it flat extortion because those guys didn't even know, evidently, that it was going to be a stage and pyrotechnics. They didn't know what exactly was going to happen there. And in the, uh, minutes, I'm gonna say, before they come out on stage, LeBron, uh, or Pat Riley ends up losing the draft picks because they don't be— they don't come here strictly as free agents.

He's got to give up the capital all of a sudden, uh, to, to get them, but he thought that he was building something that was going to last for 10 years. As what do you think is the answer to his question? Because I do think that LeBron made himself forever golden specifically by winning the one in Cleveland. He was aided by how hard it was here, that they didn't go from stage to winning 72 games, that they lost at the beginning, that it was hard. So he gets credit. But I believe that LeBron, uh, doing this, the ring chasing, the superteaming, and all the things that he did, I believe he doesn't get reputationally what he gets from one in Cleveland. Cleveland if he wins even 3 more here.

No, the redemption arc is a huge part of LeBron's legacy, and I, I can be talked into the one in Cleveland is tantamount to more elsewhere. That's not the question that I'm asking because I think that's a more complicated discussion and one that Miami's probably not viewed in a favorable light with. My question is, do they win more than 2 titles, the 2 titles that LeBron won elsewhere, understanding that the one in Cleveland counts for more in terms of going back home, and that's huge for him. But if we're just counting rings and we're having the LeBron-Jordan discussion about 6 rings, that's an iconic number in that sport. I'm of the belief, with a great deal of conviction, LeBron is routinely in the Finals and LeBron wins more than the 2 he won elsewhere. And the only thing that I need to lean on is they survived LeBron leaving, Wade leaving, all the concerns, even the Bosh Klotz, and they were back in that conversation 5 years later.

Okay, I think it's, I think it's a fun question, but it's not just about what the Heat and what Riley have been able to put— would have been able to put together if LeBron had stayed. Would whatever Riley been able to put together been better than those exact same Warriors teams that he ran into 4 straight years? I think that's also a major part of the equation.

You have to keep in mind the Warriors had some luck with like the broken teams that they ended up playing in the Finals. I don't— Miami with a LeBron-centric team and Erik Spoelstra at the helm, we don't really know what those rosters would have looked at. It takes a great deal of belief that they would have figured out to put the pieces around LeBron like other lesser reputable front offices.

Put it on the poll: if LeBron had spent the last 17 years in Miami, does he win more than 4? Yes Yes or no? That's the, that's the question Mike is, is asking there. I want to sort of explore what it is that I was talking about earlier. In my history in South Florida, there is no one inside or outside of sports who has taught me more about what it takes to win than Pat Riley. The idea is that at 81 years old, he's still doing this. Go across all of sports. You're not going to find a lot of older executives. It's going to be like Jerry Jones, Mike Brown, Jerry Reinsdorf. It's going to be people who are owners who insist on having the power. The oldest person in baseball who's an executive is Dave Dombrowski. He's 10 years younger than Pat Riley. The oldest executive in hockey is Gary Bettman. He's the commissioner of the league, and he's almost 10 years younger than Riley. He's still doing it because he wants to get the punctuation right, and he thought he had it right. The reason he was so wounded, beyond the ego blow of LeBron LeBron leaving is because he says he was going to leave too.

He was going to get out. Now, I don't believe him.

I don't believe him either.

I don't believe that.

But still, that's— that is what he says, that he was going to leave it in LeBron's hands because he would stay here and build around it. And instead, it looks like we're looking at the oldest player in the league, uh, being here because of, of how well it fits and how obviously well it fits. But to me, it's really weird what's happened specifically over the last 2 weeks where nothing substantive has changed except for the conversation. How do we go from LeBron being rejected by the Lakers and all of us saying, oh, it'd be interesting if he played with Steph, to nobody now thinking that he's going to play with Steph? And all the things that Rich Paul is putting in the news stream— this isn't about dollars, this isn't about championships, chasing, then what's it about? If it's, if it's not about either one of those things, what the hell is it about? It's not about playing with his son anymore either.

It's about golf and oil.

I think what's interesting with Riley that I saw yesterday, he comes across like the Heat fan is all nervous and waiting and anxious, and Riley, whose job it is, who's at the center of this, he comes across very matter of fact. Where it's, you know, he'll decide. I'm not calling Rich Paul and bugging him. Like, he'll decide when he decides. He's earned that right. And, you know, we hope he chooses us. And you throw in the part about Riley wants the punctuation to end his career. Wouldn't you figure, like, if Riley is attached to the lie detector, wouldn't he be super anxious because this punctuation to his career, he has no control over. Literally no control over. Just has to hope— hopefully soon this guy decides to give Riley the punctuation that he feels that he does— well, not deserves, but has, has earned, has longed for.

I don't know why you keep doing this at 81 years old from out of the playoffs unless it's because because you want to get the punctuation better than it presently is, where everyone in the conference has, uh, has passed you. And I don't know how many of you are at a craps table or gambling, and, uh, you've got the big stack, and by the time you leave the table, it's never with the big stack. You always lose. Like, very few people leave the table table with the big stack. They leave with less than whatever was the biggest stack. Uh, this stack for Pat Riley is about as low as it's been at any time in Miami, like pre-Janis trade or pre-proof of whatever it is this team is. The last season that we just saw, where in a league where everyone's tanking, the Heat barely win more games than they lose and are, you know, middle of the road in the conference, below average in the conference, in the— in a weaker conference. Uh, I, I think that it is rare for the stack of chips to be as low, but he's just pushed them all to the center of the table in a way that is really aggressive.

And I just don't believe for a second that it isn't with the idea that LeBron is coming here. Because another thing he did say, we need a playmaker. And so if it's not LeBron, is it DeRozan? Is it Westbrook?

Have you watched Trey Donaldson in summer league?

Is it—

is it Bradley Beal? He's going to go—

got LeBron at home.

He's going to go with older players. Look, Look, man, I remember when he was starting to build this nonsense here, it was always, let's go get Dan Marley, even though his back does not function in any way. And I'm gonna have Dan Marley guarding Allen Houston at the end.

Thunder! Oh, you overplayed him, Dan.

Because the guys, the guys I trust are always going to be the older guys. He's not trusting— look, he trusted young guys the last 7 years. How'd that go for him? Like, he trusted Jimmy Butler and a bunch of young guys.

And you got to stay in front of— you got to stay in front Houston there. He overplayed that inbound so bad. He gave— he have Houston— he gave Houston the lane there. Alonzo didn't come over and help, but ball bounced around. I just took a knife in my heart. How do you overplay that, Thunder? Come on, stay in front of your man.

That's what Pat Riley trusts. He always trusts the old people. You know this. He's going back to all in with a bunch of old people. Uh, before we finish the local hour here, I do want to tell people why we're wearing these bracelets here, these Camp Fiesta bracelets that Jesse made us. It's because, uh, Jeremy every year does some camp counseling where he raises some money. What are the details on what it is that you're doing this year, uh, Jeremy?

Thanks, Dan. Uh, Camp Fiesta is a 9-day sleepaway summer camp for kids with cancer based here in South Florida. Uh, it was our 40-year anniversary last year, um, so this camp has been making an impact down here for years and years and years, um, thanks to partnering with several local hospitals, um, and, and getting kids from all across South Florida, now kids all across the state of Florida who are going through pediatric cancer treatment, and it's a way for them to all come together and share experiences, you know, sometimes not even talking about what's going on with them, but just knowing that they're around kids who have been through something like them. So many kids who go through treatment have been ostracized, um, you know, spending time away from school and, and having difficulty socially. So this is a chance for us to bring everyone together, and it Camp Fiesta is a total nonprofit, so we raise all of the money for Camp Fiesta through fundraising, through donations. If you are someone who's listening and can afford to spend a couple of bucks, it's campfiesta.com/donate. But I'm there every year. My— I'm very lucky to have been born into this camp.

My family's been helping to run it.

I've never seen anyone who looks more like a camp counselor than you. You look— in the history of my meeting people, you were the person among all human beings I've ever encountered who looks the most like a camp counselor and also gives off the general energy of a camp counselor as well, where it's like, uh, you know, go get him, kid.

Yeah, that's right.

What about Tim Tebow?

Tim Tebow is a good one.

Fernando Mendoza is, uh, that man.

All right, that's king of the mountain.

Is it Fernando?

Yeah, king of the mountain.

I would say his quarterback, uh, partner there, Kirk Cousins, is in the ballpark there too.

He does sort of look like that. I was thinking like, because camp counselors are in all sorts of shapes and sizes, like I'm Kaitlyn Clark is a really good one. Kaitlyn Clark is a really good one.

Steph Curry.

What about Tim Lincecum?

Yeah.

Tim Lincecum.

Yeah.

Let's give him a sneak it off. Go smoke weed.

Yes. Are you— have you ever been to camp? Yeah. What's a camp counselor?

I was a camp counselor.

All right.

That's— and what did you and I do?

You were—

exactly.

Yeah.

And your dealer was Tim Lincecum.

The, the idea that at the ESPYs, you guys tell me, did the Knicks beat— the Knicks were awarded best team, correct?, for the ESPYs, the best team of the year. How do you do that to the Indiana Hoosiers? Like, in what world are the Knicks a better story as best team than the Indiana Hoosiers? Did— put it— put this on the poll as well. Did the ESPYs make the Knicks the best team just so they'd show up to the ceremony? Is that what— is that what happened? You can't make— in what world are the Knicks— explain it to me, Zazz. Are the Knicks a a better team story than the single greatest surprise in the history of college football?

I don't know, Knicks winning the championship is a pretty big surprise. It's 53 years.

But it's the history of college football. Are the Knicks the biggest surprise in the history of basketball?

I don't know, who cares? Indiana Hoosiers, give a shit.

What do you mean, who gives a shit? We care about college football, and Indiana's never been any good at football, and they just put together the best season in the history of college football. Beat everybody, undefeated. Their quarterback wins the Heisman Trophy, and I'll say it again— it's Indiana!

If Roy didn't say the thing they wouldn't even have won this game.

Exactly right. That's true, Roy.

All right, I saw the interception coming. Don't blame me, blame the guy who threw it.

No no no no yeah yeah yeah you because you said it my deathbed it's both your fault okay?

You did say it and you said it before it happened and the concussion had a part to do but Roy had the bigger part to play but Roy probably saw the concussion.

We all did.

We all did.

And I was like, you don't take him out of the game.

You don't— you don't take him out.

You don't take him out.

You didn't say anything.

Exactly right.

Emory was already on his way to East Carolina. Do that.

Dan Leventar is good, by the way.