Transcript of Has The U.S.A. Men's National Team Changed Soccer Forever? | Hour 1 (feat. Amin Elhassan)

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So much crazy stuff here that not even making the rankings of crazy stuff is that a few years ago, the lacking in credibility front office of the Knicks decided that they were going to trade 5 first-round picks for Bridges because they wanted to specifically knock off the Celtics on the perimeter with their perimeter defenders. And they did. I just can't believe that that happened, that that worked, and that New York finished what was a very promising time for Boston. Uh, we will get to the United States victory, a giant soccer victory. And I will remind you, Mike Ryan is doing Morally Abhorrent, a very specific soccer podcast that's inside and outside of the show, and he went live with reaction. So if you want detailed, good coverage, immediate coverage that, uh, has, uh, some strong stuff in it that isn't just us yelling "Go States," that's already out. We're bringing in Amin now, though, and before we do that, Jeremy, can you just give me the Bill Simmons timeline on his public thoughts about everything happening with the Celtics over, I'm going to say, the last 6 months or so?

Oh yeah, it's Tell me.

Simmons said Giannis's value was tanked. The Celtics then offered Jaylen Brown for Giannis but wouldn't give up Hugo Gonzalez and thus missed out so that the Miami Heat could get Giannis for a big haul. Then Simmons said that Jaylen Brown is worth a ransom, and then he was traded for Paul George, which Simmons described as one of the worst contracts in the NBA.

I hate it. I just want 6 to midnight.

Uh, Amin, uh, that's a disturbing visual. Zaj just went from 6 to midnight. I thought he was, uh, I, I didn't think he was at 6. I, you know, I, I was not— it was unaware that he was at 6.

Quarter past 3.

You gotta—

I, yeah, well, I just, I don't know what time it was. I don't want to think anymore about what's happening with that particular— Was he even at 8? Clock. Uh, I was gonna use another word that, uh, didn't have, uh, the L in clock. Uh, can you tell me, Amin, if you've read anything, heard anything that makes sense to you about what Boston just did?

No, no, I haven't, Dan.

This is—

it's not gonna get quite the same vitriol because it doesn't come with the same unexpectedness, but it is eerily similar to the Luka Dončić deal in this aspect. You can internally surmise this guy's not good enough for us to move forward with. What you cannot do is just accept anything when there is no pressure, there is no deadline hanging over you. They did not have to do this deal. A lot of people are going to, you know, have ridiculed the Milwaukee Bucks, but guess what? They decided they wanted a certain haul for Giannis Antetokounmpo, and if they weren't going to get it, they weren't going to trade him. And so they dragged this thing out And was it awkward? Yes, it was awkward. And was it uncomfortable? Yes, it was uncomfortable. Were people frustrated? Yes, they were frustrated. By the end of the day, Milwaukee got what they were looking for. When it comes to Boston trading Jaylen Brown, you cannot tell me that Paul George, who is nowhere near the equal or even approaching that of Jaylen Brown at this stage of his career, and then picks that aren't quite as sexy as they made it seem— we say, oh, you got two first-round picks.

Not quite. Look through the details of that first pick that's coming through. It is very convoluted. In most scenarios, it's a swap. It's not an actual new pick that they get. And then they get another first-round pick in a couple of seconds. It just— I don't know why they would agree to that, that poultry a whole without any sort of real pressure of a deadline of his contract is going to expire. We got to move him for something now. For that to happen. And the kicker on all of this, there's reported— Sham Charania said that the original Celtics demand was VJ Edgcomb, and, and they ended up with Paul George and 5 first-round picks.

Not, not just, not just Edgcomb. Edgcomb and 5 ones.

Delusional.

I mean, sure, that it is delusional, but the idea is that you start there to end up with like Edge come in two picks, right? You don't do that so you end up with Paul George, a pick, and then a weird pick swap.

Yeah, but the contracts have to match. You need, you need contracts to match.

So we make the deal bigger. Like, guys, this isn't hard. The contracts have to match, so you guys have to take Bobby Portis too. Okay, right? This is how this works. This is how the NBA works. The contracts have to match. That doesn't mean, well, this is the only way the contracts match. What are we supposed to do? They kind of threw their hands up. And, and, you know, it's— and usually when it's deals like this, we're like, oh, I don't know why they would do that. There's some element of, oh yeah, but they also got this guy. And, you know, right now this guy isn't a big deal, but in a couple of years he's got to be something else. That's how these deals work. We're looking here at the, at the Celtics, and I'm like, where's the upside in this? Tell me where the upside is. It's not in the pick that's going to be a pick swap, most likely. Maybe it's in a future unprotected first-round pick. But again, this team was a team that 2 days ago we're saying, hey, if they bring the band back together, it's going to be awkward.

But this is a championship contending team still. And now I don't know if you can call them that, not in the Eastern Conference as is.

Zazz, can you ask me the question? It's a very good question that you were asking in the first hour about the Paul George and just Paul George.

Yeah.

I mean, if a team called up the Sixers and said, we will take Paul George, but we're giving you nothing. Would the Sixers have said yes?

That's a good question. I, I think financially, obviously, that helps them tremendously. The op— the flip side of that is, does that make them better basketball-wise? Could they do something? Is there something actionable with that added flexibility they can do right now? And I would say probably not. Maybe there is, but probably not without What I'm saying basically is without a plan, without— oh, with this added flexibility, we can go out and get— sign and trade for Norman Powell or whatever was available out there. Without that very real salient plan, I don't think the Sixers would say yes, because again, they're a team that fancy themselves as, hey, when we're healthy, we can contend and compete for a championship. And that's where I thought the Celtics were before this. Apparently I was wrong because they made some sort of internal calculus that makes them feel like they're not as close to a championship as what I guess the rest of us thought.

Uh, Chris, can you do me the favor please of asking the guest bookers to get me somebody in Philadelphia to give the other side of this that I can talk to that is excited about what the Sixers presently are? See if we can get somebody in the next hour from Philadelphia to speak on behalf of Philadelphia.

I mean, you said, you know, there's no deadline, the timing of it is weird. So why is someone as plugged in as Brian Windhorst saying that he is being told that this deal was made under duress by Boston?

Right. So the duress is not— when I say there's no deadline, obviously the trade deadline is in February. Obviously Jaylen Brown's under contract for this year and next year, and I believe an option after that. He's up for an extension, but there's no rule that says you got to get it done right now or else lose that ability or lose some sort of asset or lose some sort of flexibility. They had plenty of time to find a proper deal. And this comes back to a conversation, Zaza, you and I had, uh, a couple of— maybe it was a week ago or so— about the idea that, hey, did the Celtics have open conversations with this guy prior to the Giannis thing? Do you have that kind of relationship? Because then these things can be addressed and, and, and cut off at the head or, or, or what have you, at the pass. I talked to Tony Allen last night. And I said, Tony, you guys had a team that was famously filled with big personalities— Ticket and Paul and Ray and Rondo and even guys like Big Baby and Tony himself. How did you guys resolve conflict?

Like, who's going to get the ball? All those kind of things that happen in the NBA locker room. And he said, yeah, we did it. It wasn't Doc, it wasn't Danny. We did it in our locker room. We addressed these issues. We talked it out. When Ticket came over, He said, hey Paul, I know you were the best player on a team that lost 18 games in a row. You're going to be our top offensive player. It goes to you unequivocally. Ray Allen, same thing. Both those guys were coming from winning situations. They walked in and said, Paul, you're going to be our, our lead offensive player, and then we're all going to get in where we fit in. And those kind of open conversations are necessary, and it doesn't look like anyone in Boston had an open conversation. If the duress was Jalen's really upset, then address it. Talk to him. Stop being non-confrontational. Figure it out. And at worst, you could do what the Nets did with Kevin Durant a couple years ago, which is, okay, we'll trade you. We're not going to do a bad deal though. So in the meantime, be professional, show up, play hard, and we will search for the deal that will get you out of here to somewhere you like.

And they did.

He did.

He respected— he showed up. He played well. He played hard. And the— eventually the Nets found the deal from the, the Phoenix Suns that got them the picks and got the Mikael Bridges, who turned into a zillion picks, and it's paid off for them. I do not understand. Just like the same way I felt when, when Luka Dončić got traded. I can understand trading Jaylen Brown. I can understand Luka Dončić getting traded. What I cannot understand is this is the deal you came up with.

All right, couple of questions though, and this one's a quick one, just quick back and forth. It's a yes or no. You said the Luka trade was a cratering trade for franchise. Is this one?

No, because they still have Jason Tatum, and if he's anything near what, what he was before the injury, I think they'll be fine. But it definitely, it is a massive blow. It's not cratering, but it's a massive blow.

Last question, uh, take on the role of Brad Stevens right now talking privately with, uh, someone he actually trusts. Cody, I can hear your stomach. You need to start eating breakfast. 'Your Brad Stevens, the honest answer, best guess, why did you do this, Brad? Why did you do this?' This is his wife asking him, his kid who's heartbroken. 'Why did you do this?' What's the honest answer, Dan?

When typically smart basketball people— I think we all agree that Brad Stevens is a smart guy, as is the rest of his front office, Mike Zarin and Dave Lewin— these are all really bright basketball minds, when they do something that seems totally outta whack, it's usually one explanation. My owner was on my ass. I had to do it. He was on my head and he was not patient and I could not get him to just understand, hey, there's a long play for this. So we had to do it.

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Dan Levitar.

I heard that as a woman faking pain. I didn't think that sounded real. I really didn't.

You know, it was not fake. It was in no way fake.

You can spot a woman faking it.

Great, Cody. Yes, I can, Jess. I've been married 40 years.

This is the Dan Levitar Show. That does actually make sense. It sort of tracks, right? If there's no duress anywhere, where's the duress? You've got otherwise smart people. You've got a market that has cratered and is giving you something in return that makes the entire internet laugh in chorus at you and consensus. It is so rare in sports to have one of these situations that's this kind of mystifying from smart people.

Jimmy Haslam deserves a little bit of credit too because his whole logic in not taking Boston's offer was, I don't want this problem. I don't want to have a superstar that doesn't want to be here. He didn't want to happen in Milwaukee what just happened to Boston, which is people know that I'm leveraged in this situation. He's disgruntled. Let me take a more sure thing and not invite this problem. Smells like roses today.

It's wild though. It really is wild to see the spectrum of, oh, John Moran is traded for that little because he's too dumb, and Jalen is traded because he's too smart. Like, it's just weird to, to have that be what's presently happening in the NBA.

Sweet spot right in the middle.

Well, I remember people were worried about drafting Jaylen Brown. Like, this isn't a disease as everyone is calling it. Jaylen Brown has thought he's the smartest guy in the room from the jump because in many cases he is. This is a guy who was top of his high school class. He played on the chess team at Cal as well. He was offered a NASA internship. He took a master's class in his first semester at Berkeley, and he taught a lecture at Harvard as the youngest person ever to do it. He is a brilliant guy, but he tweets like an NFL wide receiver, like I've been saying.

I'll bet he reads books too.

Ugh, loser.

What did Chris Cody just shout in?

Yuck.

No, but there was an alarm sound in there.

Nerd alert!

Okay, uh, Greg's a lib.

Lib.

Greg Cody. I have been remiss. Where's the other guy? I have been remiss in not talking about soccer from yesterday.

That's awesome.

Well, I mean, yes, Belgium was awesome. It was awesome before it got to the United States. I don't know what kind of historic setup this was. I don't know whether you guys preferred Belgium or Senegal for the United States. I know they just beat Senegal before the World Cup started. That was very exciting.

We want payback from Belgium, right?

Senegal is, is very good, but I don't know what the historical context is for being down 2-0 in a World Cup game in the 80th minute and you score 2 goals and then win the game and don't need penalty kicks. Like, I just don't think that happens very often. Well, it obviously doesn't happen very often, but I don't have the historical context for how often that's happened in the World Cup. That doesn't happen a lot in soccer. Anywhere in soccer.

That was awesome. But Mike, like, they got jobbed at the end of extra time, right? Like, was that a penalty?

I thought it was a penalty. Yeah, yeah, I thought it was a penalty when it happened. I was surprised that the commentators didn't go right there. It was a penalty.

I—

you get into this trouble spot here where you're slowing things down, as we saw with Balogun and that red card yesterday. It was kind of bullshit.

Terrible call.

It was bullshit. Puts the United States in a difficult spot. I understand the recent data points. Belgium crushed the United States very recently in a friendly and the United States looked really good against Senegal. That kind of started this whole run that carried into the tournament. I said the same thing before the match. I'll say it right now. Give me Belgium. I think individually they're not as good as their, their badge suggests. I think Senegal athletically and just talent-wise, top to bottom, provided more challenges for the United States, especially with Balogun out. So Give me Belgium. And yes, the Wandałowski miss, the Tim Howard sacrificing his body against Belgium. And we want an instant classic match. I want the revenge against Belgium.

I don't even think it's close. In my opinion, I prefer the US to play Belgium. Belgium's an old team and a slower team. The United States youth and speed, I think, is going to really show.

You and I weren't saying that to start that Belgium-Senegal game.

We were watching that together. You and I were both like, I think Senegal, I'd rather play.

And then like 20 minutes into the game, we flipped our take.

But no, that's absolutely not true. That's not the way I remember.

Why are you lying?

I was not lying.

Greg was into the beers.

I have trouble remembering.

Okay, I had a nice safe 14 beer buzz.

Okay, before I even left the house and Senegal scored 1-0, I said, man, Senegal looks good. Senegal So did that poor at the bar.

So you were misquoted by your son. I just want to be clear here. Your son just put forth what was your opinion. You're calling him a liar.

I'm saying he's mistaken.

No, you're saying he's lying.

I would much rather play— how many times do I have to say that? I would much rather play Belgium than I would Senegal.

No, it's not how many times you have to say it today. What were you saying about 12 hours ago? Your son is saying you were saying the opposite 12 hours ago. I was ormin ormin. Like with like 13 of my friends, like, we should open up a bar together.

I just remember you and I together having the moment of like, I think I've changed my mind here. And you— we were like in lockstep with it.

I cannot be held accountable for what I say 14 beers deep. Okay, you know this about me.

It wasn't 14, it was like 12. Come on, don't besmirch me. Um, no, it— it— I would rather play Belgium.

They're okay.

They're old and slow.

All right, we got it.

Can we listen to my dad celebrating the first goal? He said they can't take that one away because they had just taken a goal away a few minutes before.

Number 10.

Can you guys freeze it on him please? Because originally there he looks a lot like Freddy Krueger. I'm told that we have a number of different— we have a —tell me he doesn't look like your nightmare's Freddy Krueger right there. If I told you right now that he had claws for hands, that he had a hook on one of his hands, you would not be surprised by that. We have a number of videos from Greg Cody telling the states to let's go. Let's see. Let's see some more of the video of Greg Cody drinking a ton of beer.

Don't go showering to try to please me. Don't change the color of your hair. Thank you. Good night, everybody. That's the beauty of being in a watch party. You can say anything.

That's what we did during our hydration break.

Seems like I wasn't the only one 10 deep there, huh?

Like father, like son. And you know it. Well, Greg, I heard the slur at the end of that. You may have heard the slur as well in his thank you. Before we get to the third video and before we get to the slur, though, The, the thing that's most encouraging to me about this United States run, whatever it is you thought they were going to do when they initially come out and surprise us by being that aggressive in game 1, winning 4-1 and announcing to the world, oh, maybe they will be an aggressive offense. The thing that's most encouraging to me about winning this game ugly is that when a week before a tournament that's every 4 years, they still didn't know who their goalkeeper is in 3 of the games where they were trying their hardest, 3 World Cup games, they've allowed 1 goal. Like, 1 goal. They didn't know who their keeper was going to be before this thing started, a week before it started. And in 3 World Cup games— and I think they were favored against Paraguay, right? They were favored. They've been favored in all of the games to win the games.

But it's not just that they scored that way in the first one. They're not allowing anybody to score against them either when they're trying.

So it's hard to tell what's happening there because you'd like to say, well, there was a certain point against Bosnia where Freese made 2 saves. The elements provided a tricky situation for the goalkeeper with the shadows and the swirling wind. Uh, Freese made 2 saves pretty early on, and the commentators said, uh, and that is the same amount he's had of saves throughout the entire tournament so far. He only had 2 saves up to that match, and he matched it within the first couple of minutes against, uh, Bosnia. I still think the United States plays a style that'll afford teams chances. I think that what happened against Turkey was against the second team, so that's not a real data point. But I think in the ramp-up against Senegal, against Germany, this style has its drawbacks for the United States. Tim Ream is older. He can get caught out of position. He can get caught flat-footed, or flatly, he's just not fast, folks, and it'll lead to chances. I do think Belgium will score. I don't know if I want— I certainly want to believe that. I think the world of Chris Richards, I think he's a hugely important player for the US.

Want to believe what? That, that this defense is for real. But I do think that we're going to concede some chances against the next opponent.

I thought when the US was on the red for the final 30 minutes of the game yesterday, I mean, granted Bosnia-Herzegovina, they, they had control and some chances for like the first 5, you know, or so minutes when they were on the red. But the rest of the game there, the U.S. had possession. They were getting scoring chances down a man. I thought the U.S.

looked fantastic. Would you be interested in some reaction from Greg Cody, an indiscriminate number of beers in, but the spectrum seems to be between 12 and 14 beers in, reacting? That was by your own admission. You knocked it down from 14 to 12. Kidding. Well, I heard the slur in your voice, and we're gonna go do an investigation of that slur in a second. They got extra tall ones, so if it's 24 ounces, that's still one beer. So here is the sound and the reaction of Greg Cody reacting, I'm sure quite reasonably, to the red card. All right.

Hey, that's what I'm talking about! U.S. up 1-0 at the second half hydration break. And hey, that's what I'm talking about. Except that red card. That was absolute bullshit. Thank you. Why are you always thanking us? All right, here's the thing. Levittard always says I'm a homer. Okay? I'm not a homer for the local teams. I have one home team, and it's the United States. Whether it's the men or the women playing soccer, whether it's on ice, I cheer for my country unabashedly. Okay, so let's get that out of the way.

But it wasn't— What makes you say that? I couldn't tell from the way that you were dressed. Okay, I feel like there's a real need for you to say that. You cheer like an old woman unabashedly. You look like an old Ukrainian woman who happens to be wearing a United States scarf around her neck for some reason. Yeah, everybody, okay, listen to this, uh, listen to this. This is Elvis during the peanut butter and Nana stage when he was hooked on pills. Thank you, good night everybody.

All right, I do want to say one thing about the Mulligan red card, which will eliminate him from playing against Belgium.

That's crazy, by the way. I worry about that. That's not a small— that's not a small thing. It's a terrible—

it was a pyrrhic victory by the U.S. because it's a win that comes at great cost. I am very concerned that because of that— what a striker he's been in this World Cup for the U.S. And I am concerned that they are much less a team without Mulligan. And I think it shifts changes the way I'm thinking about the Belgian game a little bit. I still expect them to win, but I think that's a, that's a real loss.

This guy, is he doing the things that everyone was expecting and has been expecting for the last 4 years from Pulisic?

Well, we need— Pulisic needs to— this is so huge now for Pulisic that Balogun is out next game. Christian Pulisic has been the state's best player for a long time.. And now with Balogun out, he needs to go out there and win the U.S. a World Cup game.

Balogun's been their best, most consistent attacking player. I thought Christian was actually kind of bad in the early parts of that game and started coming alive when they actually went down a man. But Balogun, not since Brian McBride have I had this much faith in a striker that when he gets into a threatening position, is going to get a shot on frame. The goal that he had, to the casual observer, they don't understand the amount of power and skill that takes to keep the ball at his feet, dribble through 2 tackle attempts in the box, and go 5-hole on the goalkeeper. That is class, and it is what was promised when Balogun came on the scene. Now, Pepi, I am a huge fan of Ricardo Pepi. I think highly of him. He's had some injuries and he has— he's had some puzzling dips in form. But Pepi, I think, is our best option. If Weah were on better form, I'd argue, hey, let's kick Pulisic up top. He can play that striker role a little bit and you don't lose that much with Weah on, on the wing. But Weah has been bad for like the last 6 months.

So it's going to be Pulisic. It's going to be Pepi. I have faith in them. I think it's enough. Pulisic is going to need to be better.

Yep. If you guys want more instant analysis and deep in the weeds on soccer stuff, Morally Abhorrent is already out and it covers the particulars of the game.

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Denk an den 31. Juli! Wieso? Last call für deine Steuer!

Oh no, ich weiß gar nicht, wo ich anfangen soll.

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Bis zum 31. Juli abgeben.

Dan Levatar! This is the quickest it goes. Hey, this is the quickest it goes. Great Cody! Everybody, this is the quickest it goes. Yeah! This is the Dan Levatar Show. One of the things that I'm surprised by, and Mike, you weren't here, when we were having this argument because everyone here was hopeful and everyone here was saying, uh, not unlike, uh, Landon Donovan had given some voice to and some other people had given some voice to when they said it's not ridiculous to think that the United States can win the World Cup. And then Tim Howard said it is ridiculous, it's totally impossible. I happen to agree with Howard. However, ever. And, and I still agree with him because I believe that when this gets into the deeper stages, they're really outclassed. And that's no indictment of them. The part that I can't believe is we're headed into our 5th game of the World Cup. So this now classifies as a run, whether you think it's diluted or not, it classifies already as a run. But this is the most surprising thing to me, and it's just not a place that I had American soccer, and it's certainly not how we've been talking about American soccer for 20 to 40 years, which is they've been favored in all 5 of the games.

They're going to be favored against Belgium.

They are slightly favored, not as much as they would have been if Balogun was available.

They're -130 on DraftKings Sports and, and Belgium is +105. But still, to have the United States favored 4 or 5 straight games and then meet the expectations and exceed the expectations makes this already better than anything I thought they were gonna do, and they have already exceeded expectations for what American soccer is because they've turned themselves into a team that has the respect of being the favorite when they've never been that. Like, that's, that's just not a position in the sport they have ever occupied, that they could play 5 World Cup games when I'm guessing in their history they probably haven't been favored in the entire history of United States soccer. I'm guessing in the World Cup they probably have not been favored 5 times.

They do have a fortunate round of 16 draw though. They do. I mean, Belgium-Senegal was going to be an easier draw than a lot. They could be playing France right now. I mean, it's, it's, it— they lucked out in that sense. Agreed.

But still, given the placement of American soccer and the way everyone's talked about American soccer, and to my dad's point of like undercutting your point a little bit, the host nation does get a favorable group.

Yes.

So Whereas if they weren't hosting, they'd be in a tougher group.

True. Probably wouldn't have been.

We were talking about this team probably having trouble qualifying for this tournament over the last 4 years.

Pochettino is already the winningest manager in U.S. World Cup history. I love that guy.

It's a whole new world. Love his outfit over here.

What a vibe. I understand why people like, wait, man, we're feeling good. Tim Howard, why are you taking away our feel-good? And I do think that, hey, when you're a host nation and you look as good and as threatening as the United States do, all the cards are on the table. Anything is possible. But while they've had a favorable draw thus far, and Belgium counts even though they're a name brand, once they get past that, you're looking at either Spain or Portugal and then France in the semifinal. Again, pack it, 100,000 people, Jerry World. You're already in the semifinal against France. I mean, this is beyond our wildest dreams. Let's go for it. Let's shoot for the moon. But the, the, the fortune bumps, the fortune, if it didn't end with Mulligan's red, will end beyond Belgium if they get that far.

Yes, that's— yeah, I agree with you because then the opponents get super super tough. For me, France is far and away the best team in this tournament. You take away France, and I think the U.S. is in the mix with anybody else. But I don't agree it's already been a successful tournament. No, great, great. No, they've been here before. Keep in mind, this is a 48-team tournament, not 32. They have been here before. They were expected to beat Bosnia. It's an even matchup. I don't care what the odds say with Belgium. Belgium. If they beat Belgium, which is a name brand higher ranked than them, if they beat Belgium, I think that qualifies this as an unequivocal successful tournament for the US. If they lose the next round, I think the feeling is going to be one of great deflation. My dad, he's not wrong.

If you look at their world ranking, it's about where they're at right now. 15, 16, 14.

So you're talking about the Coca-Cola FIFA men's rankings?

I'm saying, so like based off those rankings, they should be in the top 16. This is where I disagree with him though, because, uh, The idea that the United States is playing for round of 8 and you have the expectations that make you disappointed if they don't win is the United States as a soccer power is further along than it's ever been when they've created the expectation, not the hope, the expectation that will leave you dispirited if they don't beat Belgium. Like, don't tell me that's not a success. Because it's a success right now. It's— it— they can lose, and I understand the idea that it's disappointing, and I understand that you're between hope and belief, but I've never expected anything from the American team. So when you're talking about historic power, and, and you guys are sitting here with what I believe is the delusion of saying that what comes after that isn't monster after monster after monster that would and should be heavily favored against the United States. The idea that you guys are already beyond hope and hope into belief, into belief where you're going to be disappointed because you got expectations, that is a seismic difference in how you're viewing U.S. soccer.

Dan, how could it not be considered a disappointment if they lose to Belgium when they're favored? Like, they're favored against Belgium. That, that would be a disappointment if they lose that game.

I'm just placing for you both the historical context, the resumes of the countries, and where American soccer has been for my entire lifetime. You are not allowed—

Are you giving me the finger, pal?

You are not allowed to say— I am giving it to you a new way. I'm trying to revolutionize the finger.

Fingers like with them, you know, you rarely see it like that anymore.

Yeah, double guns over there.

Yeah. What I am saying is that if the United States as the host country in 2026 is playing for the round of 8 against what can be considered a soccer power And they're favored to win because of how they've played in this tournament, not because of their reputation before it. Because if I place this game in front of you before the tournament, you would not have had them in almost any circumstance in the round of 8 favored. It's because of how they've played in this tournament, neglecting the last 40 years of American soccer.

Well, when do we get to raise the expectation then? What—

when? No, it's not— what I'm saying is by raising the expectation, that is the success. I'm telling you right now, I understand everybody wants to win. Win. But once the expectations are raised to, I expect them to win and advance to the final 8 teams in the World Cup, you have advanced U.S. soccer further than it's ever been in the history of the sport in this country, no matter what the bracket is, no matter that you're the host country.

I think you're acting like this is 1994. The U.S. soccer program is fully grown right now. It's a fully grown program. They're 15th ranked in the world. They were 13th ranked a few months ago. I don't know why they dipped. In the Coca-Cola FIFA men's rankings? In the FIFA Coca-Cola men's rankings. That's right.

Which is it? Is it FIFA Coca-Cola?

It's a Coca-Cola FIFA men's rankings.

Yeah, I'm drinking a Coke when I look at the rankings every time. Uh, no, I— Good one. Listen, this is a real soccer country right now. We're not a country like— this isn't the NASL days. When we hope to compete with everybody, we're— granted, we had an easy group stage, I think, a moderately easy group stage. Moderately. And Bosnia was not a great opponent. Now we're tested. Now we're tested. And if Mulligan is on the pitch, I think we beat Belgium. Now I'm not so sure. Thank you. Good night, everybody.

Exactly. Let me do this another way for you guys, okay? Because I understand that the play recently has altered expectations. I think we're in agreement on this, and I understand why we get caught up in the enthusiasm of the patriotism, and it's just wonderful when you can combine both of the two best things in sports: the surprise and patriotism. If I told any of you before the tournament this run gets through the group, wins a game. I'm not giving you any, any other information. I'm just telling you they're playing for the round of 8. Success or not success meets expectation.

Yes, I would have expected that. I thought that was the— that was a hope. Let's, let's at least get to the round of 16. That meets expectation. This is where the program should have been. The only reason why we had so much doubt was the mess that was the last 4 years. But this is exactly where this program we hoped would be when we were the host nation. We're like, this is the best shot we got to making some noise in the World Cup tournament. So they're exactly where they need to be. And guys, it's the style of play, it's what they're doing. It is a generational investment. They are taking on multiple defenders, they are skillful with the ball at their feet. We did not play this out. Now, we had players that were certainly capable of doing stuff like that, but it's not something that you you saw on the field were analytically— you can point to and say, and this is one of the more skillful sides in this tournament. They have center backs that can hang with global elites, attacking global elites. This is a different type of U.S.

men. And here's something that encourages me about the Belgium game. Even without Balogun, Seattle can make an argument as being the best U.S. soccer city in America. And the U.S. national team happens to have a 7-0 0 record when playing in Seattle. This is going to be a home field advantage like you can rarely see for the USMNT in, in this country.

We are doing how, Chris Cody, on getting a guest from Philadelphia to react to this Jalen Brown, uh, news? Somebody who can speak on behalf of Philadelphia in the next hour? I don't know who it is yet, but I did just get a thumbs up that we have landed someone and they will join us next hour. Okay. Also joining us later in the show, we're going to talk to Linda Cohen. I believe she's, uh, a bit of the last of her kind in terms of how much television has changed. Somebody who can be on television as a SportsCenter anchor for 35 years in a way that Echo is going to celebrate her career with her in a little bit. But, uh, I, I remain stunned and ask you guys to please try and find me somewhere on the internet a credible voice who's making an argument, one, on the entirety of the internet, making an argument for the Boston Celtics just did a wise thing, or the Boston Boston Celtics, better yet, on the entirety of the internet, find me one voice willing to argue that the Boston Celtics just did a neutral thing. Something— no, better yet, the Boston Celtics did something just now that wasn't intergalactically stupid.

Find me one voice on the internet that's credible. You have the rest of time and you have the entirety of the internet. This is ridiculous.