Transcript of The NFL Trade Bonanza (feat. Carmen Vitali and JD Bunkis)

Well, bad news. The alleged experts have already declared this year's QB draft class is no good. Good news. We can use this time to get our ducks in a row and create a time capsule addressing this question, which QB draft class is the best in the history of people? Good one, Dave. But you know, Dave, it's going to be tough to answer what was a bunch of the guys still playing. So part of this is predicting what we haven't seen yet. But what we've already seen from the 2024 class has them collectively in the conversation for history's greatest. To this point, the 21st century's gold standard is the Ot 4 group, which does unfortunately include J. P. Lozman, but also Eli Manning, Phil Rivers, and Ben Rothsberger. A combined four Lombardis and five Super Bowl appearances. Most people, though, will still say the '83 classes tops. John Elway, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino. Also, Champagne Tony Eison, who, for what it's worth, started Super Bowl 20 for the Pats, and underrated Ken O'Brien, and also Todd Blackledge, who does not own one of the classes three gold jackets or 11 Super Bowl appearances. The group won just two totals, La Vardy's, one of which might have been for John, but both were more thanks to Terrell Davis than any QB out there.

The 24 class is off to a historic start. We can give Michael Penick's an incomplete to this point. And while I know old number 9, JJ McCarthy's already got some skeptics, he gets one, too. There's also Drake May, who just started Super Bowl 60. And by the way, he was hurt. There's Bo Nicks, who I think would have started that Super Bowl if he hadn't been hurt. Then there's Caleb Williams, who appeared transformed by Ben Johnson. And don't forget the guy who a year ago, we all agreed, was the best of that bunch, Jaden Daniels, who pulled off the rare feet of starting a title game as a rookie. At the moment, at least, we can't rightly say any of these guys are busts, which would be a distinguishing quality compared with the other classes. Then again, how about 2020? Burrow, Herbert, Jordan Love, and early second rounder Jalen Hertz, he of the two Super Bowl's and one Lombardi, Even the biggest flop of the early round group, too, it can't rightly be called a bust, at least not yet. He just gotten boned on the head a little bit too much. The 2018 guys who seem ancient at this point have maybe the best shot: Mayfield, Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen, Lamar Jackson.

One Super Bowl appearance, one Lombardi, and three MVP trophies between them. Safe to say, Allen and Lamar, at least, will get gold jackets, if not sizable bobbles. But what if either of those guys does win a Super Bowl? Well, then I think it's game over for this whole debate. One thing seems clear, you better have that '83 class versus 'aut' four class debate now, because I suspect it's going to be antiquated in about a half decade or so. Meantime, let's start the show. Yes, hi, and hello, my fellow football Americans. Welcome to Football America. We're presented as ever by our pals at DraftKings. Draftkings The Crown is yours. This stands as our free agent primer for you. We've got two great guests coming up real quick. It's episode number 54. Mike Fuentes, your brother Gino, remains out. Best to him at home. Tell us, who is the greatest player to ever wear the number 54?

Well, Brian Erlacher has to be considered. Buffalo, look at me. I'm still thinking about that thing. Chicago Bear's legend, also Randy White considered. As of late, Bobby Wagner still playing. But for me and Ethan, it's got to be Anvil for a head, Hall of Famer, Zack Thomas. By the way, took him way too long to get into a Hall of Fame. Insult him.

By the way, Ethan, thanks for filling in as usual. You get to answer for the fellows behind the glass down there in Miami. And by the way, I should also say eight times, one more time down in Miami with everybody filling in for Dan Lebitard. Last week, thanks to everybody there in that weird little office space down in the parking garage somewhere in downtown Miami. But Dalski, quickly, which is going to be 10 years, let's say, from right now, the greatest QB class ever.

Well, I would still lean 83 because Elway and Moreno, you're just not going to get much better than two of the 10 greatest quarterbacks that have ever played the game. I don't think, at least, but it's hard to say in the moment that when... You never know. Alan and Lamar Jackson being in the same draft class, it might be the same thing plus Baker Mayfield plus Sam Darnold Exactly. It's hard to say, but I would lean that 84 or that would be 2018. But 2020 class, I'm pretty low on, to be honest with you. I'm not as high on those guys as some other people are, but also they could start stacking Super Bowl. But I would say 84 or the Lamar Allen class.

All right, let's get into some NFL free agency. I suspect we'll sprinkle in some hockey as well with our pals Bunkus and Vitale. Here we go. All right, how can we have a proper roundtable about all things free agency and maybe some other stuff that involves the game of life with just one person? No, I think we need to tap into Dave's digital Rolodex and get two of the best voices in the biz, people talking into microphones. First of all, Carmen Vitale from Fox Sports Radio. Like I say, as good as it gets on Tampa Bay Bucaneers, Chicago Bears, really, NFL at large, and then up in the capital. Is it really? It's not the capital of Canada. It's not the capital. It's the capital of hockey.

Yeah.

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From Sportsnet 590, The Fan, it's our guy JD Bunkus. Also, make sure you're checking out the podcast he does named after himself. So vain. How are you JD Bunkus?

Yeah, you would never do such a thing.

Never. That's not my way. How are you, Carmen Vitale? What's happening?

I'm great. Yeah, doing well.

Dj More is a Bill. I guess we can start there. What are your thoughts, Carmen?

No, listen, when I saw that the bears got a return of a second round pick for DJ More, it seemed like the writing was on the wall, regardless, especially from Ryan Paul's comments this offseason during the combine in particular, where he talked so much about, Oh, there's going to have to be some really tough decisions made. And we were all just like, All right, so DJ More is gone. And now that that's happened, I thought His value really capped out at four. And to see that they got a two in return, which means the bear has been picking twice in four picks in the second round, that was a deal that you do all day. I think that that was one of the bear's deepest position areas. They have a plethora of offensive weapons for Caleb Williams, and that wide receiver room in particular. Dj was the veteran there, so I think from a locker room standpoint, he will be missed. I will personally, selfishly miss him because it means his kids He won't be running around as much, and you won't get to see all those interactions, which were really fun. I think he was needed this last season because that room is so young.

But offensively, I don't really think that the bears are really taking much of a hit at this point, especially with going into year two under Ben Johnson and understanding the scheme that much more and those young players having that much more experience. Especially given the return, I think that this was a whole run for the bears.

Yeah, I suspect they'll just keep loading up at the line of scrimage there. Bunkus, how about you love looking at the NFC West stuff. So how do you react to the Rams getting Trent McDduffy there? Who wins that deal? The Chiefs or the Rams.

Well, I got to tell you that it's weird to me for both teams. One, I'll just never understand the NFL salary cap. The idea that the Rams are just grabbing McDduffy and they're trading out a first, I'm like, Oh, I was not aware that they were one of the teams that had the luxury of making a move like this, but here we are.

It's super weird. This has gone on with the Rams for eight years now. That's what I mean. They seem to have double the money of everybody else.

Every year, they're allowed to just trade out draft picks, take on salaries, and there's just no repercussions. The Minnesota Vikings, how would you feel if you're a fan of that team? Where it's like, they're gutting it. You just watch Sam Darnold win a Super Bowl. They're trying to gut their roster and move off of pieces. All I see is after they've made these moves, they're still $20 million over the cap. And I'm like, What did they do? They got a quarterback on a rookie contract. They let Sam Darnold go, and yet they're completely capped out and the LA Rams are just grabbing McDduffy for a late first. Is that deal actually done? Again, I don't know the rules. Is that deal officially consummated, Carmen?

I think so because of the fact that it's a trade, so it has nothing to do with free agency and all that. So that should go through. I don't think there was any deferment either as far as what they were trading. So, yeah, from everything I know about how this all works, I also have to say Trent McDuffie is one of my favorite players in the entire league. So good. So I'm so thrilled, and I still don't... I'm with you guys. I don't understand how the Rams do this stuff. The reason they do it is it's just an F them, picks philosophy, and they're back to it after they had, what, three years without a first-round pick? And this year, they had two first-round picks, so you no less need wasn't hanging on to that. There was just no way they don't value first-round picks at all. So I If you can get a proven player, I don't know if it's enough to change the philosophy of people teams around the league, but it certainly worked out for them to go after proven players versus trying to draft and develop.

Well, I'll say this. I mean, it's really, I think, very within the realm of possibility, obviously. And I bet it has among the shortest odds of Super Bowl '61 matchups is Ram's Chiefs. I think both teams win out of this. I know The Chiefs get lighter on the back end. But if Stafford's back holds up, I think they, as much as I have laughed about the Seahawks, the defending world champs having longer odds to win the NFC West than another team. They just won the Super Bowl. How do they have longer odds than anybody? But anyhow, I can buy the Rams as being the NFC favorite. Real quick, as we look back at Super Bowl 60, though, I'm going to be, by the way, for these next 20 minutes, both of you and the listener should steal yourselves. I'm going to be all over the place here. I'm bouncing all over the place.

We agree- That's what I like about what you do.

Yeah, good thing we all have ADHD here, right?

Yeah. There's already four different things that I want to go. I'm like, I want to go back to the Bills. I want to go back to the bears. I still want to talk about the Chiefs. But yes, the Seahawks.

Well, the Seahawks beat a team, the New England Patriots. And we agree, Bunkus, I'm going to start with you, Drake May was hurt, right?

If they ever say so, then get ready. But he was, right? He had to be. He had to be. Although, Kay, can I ask you this, though? Do you really think the game would have gone all that different if his shoulder was 30 % better? Yes.

I mean, it was, think about where we were as halftime approached. If you can figure out as the Patriots to scratch out a countdown, the game is completely different as you go to the half, right?

Yeah, I guess maybe we could play the ifsends or buts game with that team. They'll never admit it because, first of all, they're already the number one cheater organization for what? Like the next two decades of football that we're going to be looking at them that way? So the idea that they fudge an injury report, even though, like weirdly, karmically, now the time they cheat, it hurts their optics. Like, they have to be quiet about it. I think that Seattle was just so far and away the better team and that the Super Bowl, as I had said many, many times, is going to be played during the NFC Championship game. I don't doubt- I know you said that.

You hammered that point. A lot of other people did as well, not to discredit you.

Yeah, it wasn't exactly original. I agree. Yeah. I don't think that I was the only one who was saying that. I was so unique. On your Mount Pius being the one who had the only take that way. I do look at the Ram still as the favorite to come out of the NFC. I just think of the way that that game against the Seahawks went. It was razor thin. They still have a lot of talent. There's some question marks about Seattle, too, now moving forward, right? Kenneth Walker was pretty important during that playoff run, and Charbonet is coming off of an injury, and they don't seem all that interested in paying Kenneth Walker. There was this weird interaction they had at the Super Bowl parade that I think went a little under the radar, where John Schneider drunkenly was like, And he's begging me to come back. And then a day later, Kenneth Walker issued a statement with his agent that was like, Yeah, we never said anything like that. We want money. We want opportunity. We have not negotiated in good faith with the Seattle Seahawks. I think Shahid was really important. If you look at that game against the Rams that ultimately gave them homefield advantage, that tilted on a Shahid pun return.

The Rams were weak when it came to their special teams.

It was game over, right? You felt that. Was there any game when He wound up in the end zone. You're like, No flags? I thought this league had ruled out touch downs on kickoffs, but here we are, and now the Niners are cooked.

100 %. I don't know, man. I'm a little nervous about what exactly the Seahawks are going to do now because John Schneider's track record has been, Hey, I'm a really good draft and developed guy. I'll make a really good core. And then all of a sudden, he starts to get trade crazy. And I've already seen things like, Hey, they don't really love this draft, and they really like Max Crosby. And that makes me think about Jamal Adams and this window being shorter and them making one of those stupid trades and a heat check moment from John Schneider where he's feeling himself. And he's like, I could do whatever I want. I got a ton of cast me. I got all my draft pics. I'm going to do this stuff. And to Carmen's point about the bears, that's why it's like, they're one of the most interesting teams from a, if you were a fan of any team right now, who would you want to be standpoint? And for Chicago, it's like you move DJ Moore for a second round pick, as Carmen pointed out. That's better value than you thought you were going to get.

You feel like you're well run. You feel like you hit a home run with the offensive coordinator that people were like, well, is he too much of a dork? Is he going to be able to actually connect as a head coach? Well, that's already passed with flying colors. You've got two young wide receivers that everybody's excited about, a quarterback that everybody's excited about, money to move around on your defense, draft capital to add to your defense. Yeah, that one feels good. The Bills, though, are you guys really interested in the Bills side of that trade? Because that, to me, is like, you traded for Shaquire plus.

Yeah.

I mean, I think I'll let Carmen go on this at greater length. I like the move. I think it's time. It's desperate hours if you're the Buffalo Bills and you got to reach if you need to. You got to go get somebody. And do you want to definitely... I know we've gotten very glib about, well, get rid of that guy and bring in AJ Brown. Are people paying attention to AJ Brown? Are you sure you want to bring that in-house right now, Carmen?

It's interesting because I think that it looks great to say, Oh, yeah, DJ More is a wide receiver one, and he can handle all of those responsibilities, and this, that, and the other. But if you look at DJ More's profile and what Josh Allen has It's historically been good at throwing to, or it's been a successful connection, DJ More doesn't really fit that. He's not big enough to me, but to go up for those 50-50 balls, he's not going to win those. And so it's interesting. I don't want to say DJ More is not a wide receiver one, but spending that much on a guy makes me think, Why didn't you then just go after Alec pierce? Why didn't you go after something like that? The best wide receiver. If getting a wide receiver one meant that much to you and that's what you wanted to prioritize, especially with some of the people that the bills are conceivably letting hit free agency across the roster, where you're freeing up potential money and ability to do that, why not just go after the best you could possibly get if you're going to pay a price like that, especially?

So I don't know. I like the move from this. I think I like the move less now that I know what the compensation is.

I think that's what it boils down to. I hear you, but the The pushback I would do is whether you think DJ Moore really stands as a true number one. What it does weirdly allow for Keon Coleman to slot as your number two instead of him.

Do you have the faith that he's going to do that?

I was going to say I feel like Keon Coleman is slotting in on their number off the roster.

That would also be true.

The Bills are Toronto's team. We just had a Raptors' Knicks game in town last night, and it's Bills' night. Tracey McGrady and Vince Carter, who who are, I guess, partial owners of the Bills to some effect. I'm not exactly really sure what they own. It feels like a Jay-Z ownership stake where they've got the 1%, but either way, they have Bills Night, we've got the T-shirts out. Everybody loves the Bills here. I don't think Kean Coleman is an option for their future. I think that ship has sailed. It was so bad there this year with that guy, not just from a talent standpoint, but everything that happened behind the scenes. I just don't know how you could bring him back, and if he burns you again, justify Why that happening with your locker room where that veteran team is having to stick up for that guy. The thing with DJ Moore is I agree with Carm where, I don't know, I think that he's had an opportunity to be a number one now in two different spots. If he's your number one guy, it's a little overwhelming. If he's one of the guys in a really talented group, you feel like that's awesome.

But that's not really what the Bills have. And then I think about, like I mentioned, Khalil Shaqir, that's the guy there. Love it or don't, he's been the guy for the Buffalo Bills, their most reliable target. And there's a little redundancy with me with those guys. I agree, they need the 50-50 ball guy. And yeah, I get what you're saying, Dave, about going out and getting A. J. Brown, where he comes with different issues. But normally when you go get the issue guy, the first year can be a bit of a honey moon. So it's like if you've got Josh Allen-George Pickens. Right. Well, for at least 10 games, right?

I'm still waiting on that. That's going to happen. That's an inevitability.

Yeah. Ten games of George Pickens and now franchise tag George Pickens. I'm sure this is going to be delightful for Cowboys fans. But I don't know. I think I would have gone for something that was a little higher upside if that was the price point. And to me, it's like, okay, if DJ Morv is a move and you've decided we're going to use a second round pick to go get this guy, and now we're going to do... We want to be in on Mike Evans. We're going to pay to go get Mike Evans. He's going to be our jump ball guy. That's when I say, okay, this looks good. Sure. But up until that moment, the DJ Mor If that's their move, which has been the Buffalo Bill's-y thing, right? They go out and get one guy and they're like, we did it. Yeah. If that's the move, I don't think that this actually changes the ceiling of that offense, especially since they're likely to lose their center.

Carmen, what do you think of, like I said, bouncing around here, Drake May, do you think he was hurt? Do you buy... I mean, it certainly seems that was the case, and the Patriots were bitten by their own snake that they couldn't say publicly he was hurt. But Josh Dobbs take in reps the weekend before the Super Bowl probably was the tell there.

My question is, are you allowed to be hurt on a Mike Brable team? Is Mike Brable going to allow you to say that you're hurt?

He thought he was going to say that he was hurt. Every game is a must-win game, according to Mike Brable. Exactly.

And then the actual must-win game of the Super Bowl, are you even allowed to say that you're hurt or to come to Mike Brable and be like, Hey, man, my shoulder hurts? He's going to be like, I don't care. Go shoot up with something.

What happens if Josh Dobbs starts that game, Carmen?

I don't think that it goes any differently, honestly. Because I also... I mean, this is my wheelhouse is the trenches, right? And you look at how Seattle's defensive line just completely outmanned the Patriot's offensive line in that second half in particular. I think they did an admiral job to your guys' point in the first half, where you're like, Okay, maybe this is something that they could be a little bit more back and forth, and maybe they are a little bit more evenly matched than we gave the Patriots credit for. But At the end of the day, I think it just showed how much work they still have to do on that offensive line because they weren't even a year removed from how terrible it was, or I guess a year removed from how terrible it was in Drake May's first season, where I was terrified for him to get thrown in there because I thought he was going to get killed. So you don't fix a lot of those issues overnight and in one year. I think that that showed. I think just in general, the Patriots were a team that... They're just young. They haven't been together for very long under Mike Brable, and they were just a little bit more volatile, and they managed to make the Super Bowl.

But Seattle, I'm with you, JD. Seattle was by far and away the better team, the more complete team, especially when you consider how dominant that defense was. And then on top of that, you had the offense that was really, really good, I'm not going to say elite or great or whatever with Sam Darnold. And Sam Darnold did exactly what you needed him to do to keep up and to score enough points that the defense could be like, All right, we only have to allow. We have to allow. The defense was never going to allow more than 10 or 15 points. So as long as you can score more than that, which Sam Darnold showed he was capable of, I think that was always the Seahawks game.

Well, I bring this up to tee up this conversation. Patriots fans, like I said about Broncos fans after the AFC title game, they will lament for the next 2-7 decades that we would have won that game if our starting quarterback would have been available, and I suspect that Patriots fans, if it ever is revealed, Yeah, Drake may had a messed up shoulder, they'll be like, It would have been different. The thing is, nobody cares outside of your fan base. No one will ever remember that. As far as that goes, JD Bunkus, if number 87, Kid Crosby plays in the gold medal game, Canada surely wins, right?

I really believe so. I believe that till the day I die. Of course, he's doing the boogie man for the United States. I think that there's... Yeah, see, they...

Crosby's golden goal was four on four. That's all I hear.

You know what, though? That is the truth of the matter in terms of the knowledge of some hockey fans of the border. They think four on four and three on three are the same thing. They're like, Hey, this is no different than these two things. So that's Sydney Crosby doesn't matter. He Why isn't it four on four, by the way?

Why isn't it five on five? Neither were five on five. So were both of them bullshit if neither of them were five on five?

No, but I think we would agree that four on four is more legitimate than three on three. I just think you add a guy. It's all the same shit.

Everybody plays with the same role.

Well, here's the thing. In a hockey game, you can have a double minor where two guys are removed from the play, and all of a sudden you have four on four hockey. There's no such thing as three on three hockey in a regular season game. It just doesn't happen. You You can't go to the playoffs, you can't do it. So I do think four on four is more legit. I will say this, America won. They get the flowers. They hung around the game. The goal tender counts. And guess what? Going into the tournament, the biggest question for Team Canada was, do they have a goalie? And how do their goal tenders compare against the American goal tenders? Right now in our country, we have one thing that's viewed as a true hockey crisis. We're still pumping out the superstars. Team USA still has not... They can point to these Jack Hughes type players Austin Matthews types players. They have not been able to develop the superstars like the kid we brought up, Maclin Cellebrini. He was 19 years old. He was the second best player in the tournament. They have not had a Sydney Crosby.

They have not had a Connor McDavid. They have not even had really a Nathan McKinnon, if we're being honest. What they have done is they've completely tilted the board when it comes to goaltending. The US has probably at least six goaltenders who could have played for Team Canada.

It's so weird, right? It's very strange that that's the case.

Well, That's because the Americans are unhinged. You have to be unhinged.

You're a goal. That's a great point.

That's why.

And you guys have a better development system right now when it comes to goal tender. And this is where I get into regional politics of Canada. Quebec didn't give us anybody for our roster. It's one of our biggest provinces. It's what they're supposed to do. That's where Patrickois is from. That's where Martin Brodeur is from. And really, this is not a failing of Canada so much as it is a failing of Quebec. They have not given us the French next goal.

I blame the French.

Blame the French. And that's the way that I'm looking at this. It's like, I blame the format, of course. I blame not having Cindy Crosby. I'll have excuses till the day I die for that Olympics.

You guys were so happy Crosby didn't play so that you had an excuse built in. You were so happy about that.

What's a valid excuse?

Excuse built in right from the beginning. It's not a valid excuse.

I'll tell you right now, he didn't. No, everybody here was desperate to see him.

Of course. As I keep saying, if John Cooper were given the choice, you can have pie in the sky, who do you definitely want available for the gold medal game? I think it goes Kael Mccar one, Sydney Crosby two over McJesus or anyone else. How say you?

No, they would still choose McDavid. He's just a different player. He's so unbelievable.

Different when the games matter. Yeah.

Yeah. He's got three games now. Listen, someone made the Josh Allen parallel with him, and I went, Yeah, that's actually... No, you're right. That's a good parallel.

He is a different player. He's a loser. Yeah. Just like Josh Allen, a loser.

He's a loser. No, but that's it. It's like, we all agree that right now they're the best in their sport. The difference is McDavid is better than Josh Allen is in his sport. The gap between him and the next guy is monumental. There's no trade in hockey that would be made where you're like, you traded even for Kael McCart, even for some of the best players, Quinn Hughes. It doesn't matter who you put together. If you move them out for Connor McDavid, you end up losing that thing. So he's still just number one with a bullet. He's still the guy that you wanted with the on his stick in any big spot. I think that he did choke a little in that game, if you want to have that conversation. In three on three, he tried to make a play that was like, this is the Edminton Oilers facing the Vegas Golden Nights in the midst of the regular season.

Well, who's on the ice in that three on three. I'm with you largely about the argument.

That should have been your advantage.

But I mean, those are the three guys you have on the ice when the goal is scored. It's pretty wild. 100 %. Carmen, indulge me this, and then we'll talk some free agency. I have so many things I want to get to with the two of you, and I can tell already I'm going to get to a very- This better be a hockey question because I have things to say about three on three, too. Are you offended by his tweet in the moments following that golden goal. You see my tweet? I'm going to put it up here right now. I'll read it for you and the listener. Honestly, if you're an American celebrating that win, you're a casual who doesn't know Puck. Totally fine. Grow the game. Jd Bunkus. And he heard about it.

I kept saying throughout the entire game, I was like, We don't deserve to win this game. We do not deserve to win this game. We played like dog. Can I swear on this? Sure. I was like, We play like dog shit for most of the game. And then it took the most volatile overtime period that you could possibly have, which I don't understand for the Olympics, because who doesn't want more Olympic hockey? True Olympic hockey. I want a full five on five, overtime period, at least before you start taking men off the ice. This is insane that it goes directly to three on three. That was absolutely nuts. And then, yeah, it becomes more volatile, and it just becomes a toss up at that point where it's like a coin flip. And I don't like that. And I also was screaming at the Americans more than anything during that game about their transitions and how their goalie was literally the one that kept them in the game. So that was amazing. And you talk about the goaltending development here in the States, which is It's awesome. But most of the time I was like, Are you kidding?

I was yelling at the Americans that they were lucky to not be down more for most of that game. So, yeah, the Americans got outplayed for the entire time up until when it mattered. And so I don't have really an issue saying that. But listen, at the end of the day, what matters? Thank you, Connor Hillebuck.

Thank you, Connor Hillebuck. Thank you.

In terms of the tweet, Dave, you know me, so you knew what I was going for, which is I'm trying joke around. Of course, Americans, we're going to celebrate that. Like, the idea that you wouldn't celebrate a win is crazy. I wrote that tweet sitting in the back of an Uber with my best friend laughing about the most cry baby things that we could say. It is a cry baby tweet. It's 100 % that. It's me being salty. It's me trolling 100 %. When Dave Portnoy starts retweeting it and I'm getting called out on part of my take, I'm happy. Who wins?

Bunkers wins after all.

Well, here's the thing is you do a troll like that because you want a kernel of it to be true, which is most people that were celebrating that game south of the border don't watch hockey. They tuned in for just this hockey game. And so it's like any type of gatekeeping. When you're a gatekeeper, you know it works to trigger people because there's a kernel of truth to that thing. And so you throw that out there and it gets people pissed off. And the funny thing I find about the whole you don't know, fuck thing or whatever, because I really don't care. I think the more the merrier with hockey. And in truth, I think K and out played them. They should have won that game. They do have a couple of excuses, but ultimately, Karm is right. What matters is you get to win. And if K had a one three on three, we'd be celebrating it all the same. Thank you. It doesn't diminish it. Thank you. It would have been the exact same thing. But what I will say is that we do the exact same chirp to each other. I think it's the only time this has ever happened in the history of sports.

If the Americans win, we say, You don't care. And if you guys win, what do you say? We don't even care about hockey. And so it's the only turf where- America wins again.

Yeah.

It's the exact chirp that goes both ways, and yet both sides get upset about it, no matter which side that you're on.

It is funny because I said the Bunkus about the tweet that it's like, and then you flip it, Austin Matthews, the captain for the Toronto Maple leaves, which is Canada's team, much like the Dallas Cowboys or America's team. So it would be the equivalent, I guess, of Dak Prescott representing Mexico and beating the US in football. Right, Carmen? I mean, you can get why the emotions are- Yeah, I see that.

Except for 40 % of Canada's population lives in Southern Ontario. 40 %. Imagine if the Dallas Cowboys had nearly half the population of your country all congregated in one place.

Well, to the outside world, most people think that, to be fair. People are like, How big is Texas? It's big. It's just the population.

What's weird, Carmen, is that most provinces hate the leaves, although people will push back. Let's talk some football here very quickly here. We can go quick on this because I want to get into your personal thoughts on free agency. But let's nuts and bolts it here. Start with you, Carmen. When the dust settles, where will these guys be for the 2026 NFL season? Malik Willis. Okay.

Oh, gosh. I Minnesota Vikings.

That sounds uninspired. You can push back on that one, Bunkus, or you can tackle Mike Evans.

I want to say that I want to see, weirdly, Malik Willis. I think what would be fun is him in Arizona, where it's like he replaces Kyler Murray, but he's asked to basically do the same thing. Same thing, right. Yeah, but they have weapons there. And he's the most interesting free agent quarterback. I guess you could make the case for Kyler, but I feel like we've seen more of Kyler, so there's less mystery there. Malik Willis is the black box where we're like, Hey, maybe this is Matt Flynn 2. 0. Maybe this is actually the next Sam Darnold, where he gets an opportunity and he's awesome. I'd like to see him with the Cardinals. I also think it would be fun to see him with the Dolphins. Just, Hey, go out and be the guy there. But I don't... Oh, those guys, the Dolphins feds are not into that.

I'm not into it. What do you want the Dolphins to do? I would let yours ride this year out and just go full tank mode and see If you have anything there, and if not, try again for a quarterback next year, or I'd bring in... I would rather have Kyler Murray for super cheap than Malik Willis for $60 million, honestly.

I'd rather not do anything and just do yours. If you're going to tank, do the full tank, because Kyler Murray is good enough to win you some games that just got to tank your draft pick. So just go full Ewer's last season. It's not like I haven't had the last 25 been lost on me anyway. So what's one more going to hurt?

I'm still stunned that Carmen, of all the available options to Malik Willis, I assume he would have to be promised to dig, right, to sign there. He's not going to be like, I'll compete with JJ McCarthy with number nine for the starting gig. You would have handed it to him, which would indicate... And Carmen, my ears perk up when you say that because do you know something about KOC? Betray I mean, what he says publicly doesn't align with... They seem to be claiming like, Yeah, JJ is our guy.

Yeah, they do. But also, what have their actions told you? Which is what I go off of, Which is like, hey- I don't have to make it work after Darnal did what he did.

They have to lean into it now.

They do, but they also don't have a GM effectively right now. So that's the other thing, too, where I'm like, okay, what is... I guess the reason that... And it's an off-the-wall answer for sure, but it's one of those things where I'm like, All right, if you're going to root for something like chaos, I think that that's it because the teams are so familiar with each other. What we've seen as a trend in this division is the interdivision trades. If you look at where KOC is comfortable and who he knows, well, who does he know really well? He knows Matt Lafleur really well. They come from the same tree. I think that there's something there. I don't know how actually realistic it is, but I also don't think that they essentially think that JJ McCarthy's the guy anymore or don't at all. Because firing Quaisi Adolfo Mensa after seeing Sam Darnold get to the Super Bowl, it It tells me that they're like, We made a mistake.

And if you made a mistake- That is like, Who traded Luca? I thought they fired him because he took Pat leave for too long.

Well, yeah, that was the concern. But that tells me that we made a mistake. And the other part of saying we made a mistake is that we don't have that guy on the roster because you still believed in JJ McCarthy. Then don't you keep the guy that got him there? That, to me, there's something wrong there.

There's something you're right about that. Okay, next up, let's go with Bunkus, Ken Walker.

Oh, God. Can I say this is the one guy where I really want him back in Seattle? I don't get why these two sides can't figure this one out?

At $8 million, right? $7, $8 million?

Well, again, this is a guy who... It's a free agent running back, and it's a fairly deep running back class. So the idea that he's going to get something astronomical that you just can't get off of, to me, that doesn't compute because we just saw Saquon Barkley when he hit free agency, what he got. This guy's not Saquon Barkley, so isn't he going to get something a little bit more reasonable? If you're Seattle, are you really going to use your first-round pick to draft a running back and have the unknown of bringing that in. That feels like what the Chiefs kept doing after their Super Bowl wins.

And they- Schneider's not opposed to using high pics on runners. Yeah.

And guess what? It worked out to the effect of getting first-round runningbacks that had zero careers with the Seattle Seahawks. So I just want to see Walker return. This one just makes too much sense to me. Charbonney is coming off of an injury. Why would you want to assume? And Charbonney is a good change of paceback. I like him. He's a good pass blocker. There's things about him I enjoy, but I don't look at him and be like, wow, he's such a dynamic runner. He's not going to make those plays like the game against the Niners, where it's like, you could just make people miss in the hole the way that Kenneth Walker can. He's a dynamic weapon. He makes so much sense for this team. You have a proof of concept. He fits in with the room. I just don't know why this would be. And again, I don't understand NFL free agency at all. I understand. I don't get it. I know they got to pay JSN. I know they got to pay Devon Witherspoon eventually. But as of this moment, I think that they're like, sixth most salary cap in the NFL.

That's the crazy part.

I can't get over the fact that the Seattle Seahawks, coming off of a Super Bowl, have the sixth most cap space of any team. And also the fact that they're willing to let Kenneth Walker walk. Because I'm like, Wait, if you have the money, why wouldn't you keep him for all the reason?

It's very strange.

Which makes me, again, sense off alarm bells. If you have the money, are you going after someone that you can't afford to keep him? Or what's happening here?

The only thing I can figure is that potentially he made a lot of noise about wanting to be a bell cow back and didn't like the- And one of the highest paid. He carries. Yeah. So he wants to be higher paid, and he doesn't feel like maybe they're evaluating him as one of those Belcow backs that they're trying to pay him like he's a timeshare running back. But in terms of fit, money, opportunity, what you know, again, I can't think of a place that makes more sense for Kenneth Walker. What? You want to go be a Tennessee Sea Titan. Enjoy. I just think Seattle Seahawks make by far the most sense for Kenneth Walker in that, God, I just really do hope that cooler heads prevail there.

How say you Who Carmy V, on the before mentioned Mike Evans?

Don't do this to me. I don't want to. Buffalo. I was just talking about it. Listen, you made the case for him in Buffalo, and it's a good one. I don't want to admit it, though, because I don't want to see him in a uniform other than Tampoy Bucaneers, but I'm biased. I've spent six years of my career there, and I spent six years of my career with Mike. I adore him as a human. He's incredible. He's hysterical, first of all. He's got the best interests. Him and I align I very much on the Harry Potter stuff, and that's essentially how we bonded. His wife is actually funnier. His wife is hysterical. I love her so much, and she runs that house, and she's like, Five foot, nothing, and she just runs Mike. It's awesome. I love her to death, Ashley. But I also think that there's a stubbornness with Jason Light when it comes to Mike Evans because of the fact that that was his first ever draft pick. Jason doesn't necessarily operate like that normally, but I do think that the Tampa is going to do whatever they can to keep him. And I also think that Mike essentially wants to stay there.

He wants to finish out his career in the place that it started. He's an incredibly loyal guy. And I do think that there are situations that could lure him away from there, i. E, Buffalo, especially if now that you have DJ more, you add Mike Evans, and you add a couple more pieces, and you think, Okay, this team could really be, I know we say it every offseason. It's like, Could really be a contender this year. This could really be a billsier. And I think that there are some extraordinary circumstances that could lure Mike away from Tampa, but I think they would have to be just that. They would have to be extraordinary because of the fact that I know how loyal Mike is, how much that staff wants to keep him. And also that I don't know that Tampa would... They don't want to lose that piece of their offense for myriad reasons. So I really think that Mike stays in Tampa. I truly do think that's the most likely option. But I do think that there are a couple of teams that could present a really tempting case I don't know.

The dynamic about quarterbacks making receivers better than they might actually otherwise be is well known. I think Mike Evans is the number one since back to the A&M days of making whatever quarterback he has to look a little bit better than the quarterback actually is, which is why, here's a wild card for you, you don't have to react to this. The team on the Banks of the Three Rivers is desperate for a wide receiver. They haven't had one now. We're now in the year three of them not having a viable second wide receiver. I think they're all in on Aaron Rodgers. Is that, first of all, your take on that one? I'll go with you, Bunkus. As a human being, if you happen to catch him on McAfee or elsewhere, do you think it's a done deal?

That he's going back to Pittsburgh? Yeah. Yeah, I do. I think that he's going back to Pittsburgh. He's going to play one more year, which I can't think of something that feels less attractive than that. You've got the guys in the room talking about how they're willing to put up with a year of Quin Ewer's. I think I would rather the year of Quin Ewer's than the year of- I appreciate, man. Eric Rodgers. I really do. I think that now I thought that was the most depressing thing that they were like, We're so beaten down. There's so much apathy. We've seen so many bad teams. Just let us watch 17 games of Quin Ewer's throw the football that Aaron Rodgers is actually the most depressing of the scenarios. If I'm Mike Evans, I wouldn't even take that phone call. You want to go play with the mercurial Aaron Rodgers on a terrible turf where Mike Evans has to deal with injury.

I'm just saying that they're going to be, don't be surprised at the swings they take at that position.

Sure, take a swing all you want. But if I have ham string issues, why would I want to go play on that turf up in the cold, like those cold weather games. That's actually the argument against Buffalo is if I'm Mike Evans and I want to have a long career, I want to stay where it's warm, and I want to stay where it's familiar. And also, does he have a Hall of Fame case?

Yeah, of course.

He definitely does.

But I also don't think- For whatever reason, I don't think about him that way.

I don't think that he's super caught up in the longevity of his career, just from things that he said to me, things that I know about him. Now, again, money changes things. But I really think that a lot of this was him hanging on to have Jerry Rice's record, and then he ended up getting hurt. He went under the knife for the first time in his entire career because, like you said, he's had ham string issues, but he's never actually had surgery until now. I think he doesn't want to go out like that, which is why I think he'll continue to play. But I wouldn't bank on him being more... I wouldn't bank on him being like, Oh, I don't want to play there because I want my career to last three, four, five more years. I don't see him playing well.

He's got a ring and all that. So what's your answer? Clearly, you're the Evan's whisper here, Carmy. Where's he going? Do you think it is Tampa?

I think he's staying in Tampa. I truly think that. Like I said, I'm warning against fact that I'm biased, but I really, truly think he's staying in Tampa.

Where's AJ Brown?

Oh, go ahead. Sorry. I was going to say, the reason You know what I ask about the Hall of Fame question with him is if you guys all agree that he's going to go in with certainty, I do wonder if there's a value for a guy like that and the organization to just say, Hey, wouldn't it be cool if you wore one uniform? Wouldn't it be me?

Like I said, he's got his ring already.

If you became the Tampa Bay Bucaneer, the guy that we point to, it's like Mike Evans had his whole career here. It's not like our situation is one where we can't win games. Come back and do this. The case I was going to make for Buffalo is, does he become the first football player where they do load management, where they're just like, Hey, we need you for the playoffs. We're good enough to be able to get there. We'll sit you a bunch of games. We'll let you collect paycheck. We'll let you go hang out with your tiny wife and do your thing and just show up when the games matter the most and be Josh Allen's jump ball guy. But I think the Tampa thing makes the most sense.

I think that Mike Evan should say, I will come back to Tampa, but only if you commit to the cream sickles for 17 regular season games. I agree. Who doesn't agree?

I don't mind their uniforms now, but this is also... I started working for them during the alarm clock era of their uniforms, and that was horrendous for so many reasons. Nobody liked them, first of all, not even the guys. And then trying to see numbers from the press box was insane. It was just the worst possible combination. It was horrendous.

And I'm so glad that that's a word. It was upsetting. Yeah, it was awful stuff. Now, free agency, my pal, handsome Hank Hodgson, king of international football. I forget what his title is with the NFL properly. But either way, he's always advocated for, if you're a free agent, make sure you run the gamut of all of America's best restaurants. Make sure on the team's dimes.

Travel all over football America, eat at all the best restaurants, then announce where you're going.

Don't be in a rush to announce the tampering period or in the first hour. So I want to advocate for that. But where would you, and I'm going to start with you here, Carmen, if you, just from a human standpoint, not football situation, but just where would you most want to play in the NFL if all options were available to you? Just from a city standpoint? I don't mean this team might win, but I mean, I like that stadium. I would never sign on a team. I would never sign with a team that would send me to go live in a dormitory for August. I'd be like, Well, no, I'm not doing no. Please. I'm an NFL football, but I'm not sleeping in some dorm room that is in air condition. How soon?

Okay. I've got a couple because of, A, how I know the organization is run from just whatever, and I like them, and the stadium standpoint. Okay, so Philadelphia He has one. Most of my family is actually from Philadelphia. My dad is from there, so all of his family is still in the tri-state area. I love the link as a stadium. It's awesome.

It is underrated. I agree with you. It's sick, isn't it?

It is because it's just solid. It's It's really sick. And the Philadelphia soft bretzels are just from that childhood thing that I just adore. So you get those in the press box.

Second best sandwich in the state of Pennsylvania, those Philly cheesesteaks.

Those Philly cheesesteaks. Except the best Philly cheesesteak I've ever had actually is here in Chicago. Don't tell anybody. I do not tell my family.

It's done.

I love Philly. Okay, so Minnesota is my favorite stadium in the entire league. I think the game presentation and the atmosphere, and even as a player, getting to play there as a Minnesota Viking is incredible. Just the skull chant and the fake snow that comes down. And that organization, just as a whole, the way that they treat their staff and everything like that is really good. Their facilities are really amazing. All of that is great. I think Minneapolis has a really sneaky food scene. Also, if we're going to stay on that thing of food, they have some really good restaurants as someone who has to go-Well, I mean, as a human being, you eat pretty much every day.

So it is a- Right.

I also don't care about the cold. I don't care about the cold. I am someone that grew up in Chicago, and I would much prefer We're having seasons, one of those seasons being where it gets below zero and it snows and all that.

But then you get to play in the dome, which stinks.

I don't like that. But the stadium is really cool. Then on top of that, I think Baltimore is another one that I really love because, again, that stadium is- It looks like their stadium looks like the Jawa's Robot Mover.

But it's also right- But it's also right.

It's right in Baltimore, which I think is a very underrated city.

I love that. You can walk up. You can walk up. It's beautiful.

It's beautiful. Camden Yard is an incredible venue, too, that I've been to. I've spent a sneaky amount of time in Baltimore where, again, great food scene right by the water, more than even the Inner Harbor is that Fells Point area, which I love. And it's just like colonial America and cobblestone streets and really good dive bars. And people are just out in the alleys. I love it. I love it. I love it. Then at the end of the day- Well, go to Pittsburgh if you want that vibe.

It's like Baltimore, but- You're not by the ocean. But infinitely better.

I want crab, okay? I want crab. The little creatures to eat, okay? I don't want it.

No, no. Too late. Clip it off.

That's going in the club this week.

I can't also get out of this by saying I would stay right where I am, which is Chicago, Illinois, because I adore Chicago. I love this city with my whole damn heart, and I always have. I've been called away and moved all over the country because of jobs, because of work. But I've always tried to get back here, and we... Damn it, we've done it. We bought a condo. We live here. My fiance works here. His studio is here. I am trying like hell to stay here for the rest of my life.

You're not going to get to. Gary, Indiana is where you're headed every Sunday, apparently.

I know. Apparently. Either way, this city is incredible, and I love it so much. So from a human standpoint, I'm never happier than when I'm in Chicago.

I love it there, too. It couldn't be more different in this answer. You're going to go LA.

Where are you going to go? Oh, warm weather?

I live in Canada Canada. It's cold. I'm tired of the snow. Do you know what a lot of Canadians do in the wintertime? They become what's called snowbirds. Snowbirds. And you know where they go live? Southern Florida. And that's where I would be going. Miami. First of all, if we're doing the stadium thing, that's the worst stadium I've ever been to. I had to wait in that, what is it, a Sonic parking lot for two hours to wait for an Uber. Have you been since the upgrades, though?

Because the upgrades are beautiful. It's a world-class facility now. It used to be a shit hole.

That doesn't help him waiting.

I went three years ago is the last time that I've seen a game at Hard Rock. I was there for the Lamar Homecoming on Thursday Night Football, sell-out crowd, parking lot. Horrible to get to, horrible to get out of. Again, I don't want to be in gridlock traffic because I live in Toronto. We've got some of the worst commutes on planet Earth, so I'm going against that with the whole idea of playing at that stadium. But you know what my biggest takeaway was when I was in Miami the whole time? It would be really nice to have money here because I went as a middle class Canadian- You have to have money. And I had a pretty good time. And I was like, God, look at that yacht. Look at that yacht. Look at that one. That's nice. I would like to go to one of those someday. So if I was an NFL player, I would like to go somewhere where the weather is beautiful. There's an incredible nightlife. I could have fun. I could have an amazing car. But also there's not a crazy pressure to win there. Like, these guys are talking about quinewers.

I can go out there and just have some decent stats on We Love Forever. That's It takes the pressure off.

There's no state income tax, which matters to Americans.

Exactly. I'm not taxed. And as a Canadian, I'm taxed out the ass. So I would like that part of it as well. But that piece, I think, is really attractive if you were a player. When you said Philadelphia, I'm like, Dead last. Jalen Hurts put a Super Bowl there, and the next year, they're like, he sucks. We hate him. We hope he leaves.

I would say that's the caveat with Philly is the fans. The fans are so insane. And they're also well-informed, too.

And the media. And the media.

It's hard to argue with.

I want to go somewhere where I can be like LaMelo Ball, where I drive around town, I create havoc and accidents, and the whole city's like, That's our guy. We love our guy. He's got no pressure. We're happy that he's here. I want to be a menace. And if I was a menace, I would want to be in South Florida. I'd want to play for the Miami Dolphins. I'd want no pressure. I'd hang out on my yacht. I'd spend my millions of dollars. I'd be at 11. I'd be doing it all. I'd have the best of times.

Oh, man. All right, listen, like I predicted, we got to a small fraction of the stuff I wanted to cover with the two of you. Great stuff. I think I made a mistake. Next time, it'll be Jess Carmen Vitale or Jess JD Bunkus, or hopefully both of them sooner rather than later. I liked it. Individually. But yes, a fun roundtable, just the same. Carmen Vitale, Fox Sports Radio. Track her down with my guy Martin Weiss and beyond. Great stuff always from her. Jd Bunkus, Sportsnet 590, the fan, as well as the JD Bunkus podcast. Make sure you're checking out their great work. Thanks the two of you. There they go. And here we go to real quick, please do subscribe, if you haven't already, to the audio podcast, wherever you find your podcast, as well as to the YouTube page, Football America. Doing real well our last episode all about the Tarantino character draft with Zaz and Amin. Please check that out and all the rest of it. Until next week. Thanks so much, my fellow football Americans. It's been a thin slice of heaven.