Transcript of South Beach Sessions - Tony Hawk New

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A genuine legend in our midst, somebody who basically made a sport matter in this country. I feel like I can say that without overflattering the skateboarding legend and now a gaming and cultural icon in Tony Hawk. You winced on that. Thank you.

Well, I mean, it's a lot.

But those things are also— I said nothing that was wrong. That is, everything is correct. Your body has paid the price for that to be the glory. Was it worth it?

I will concur on that. On that point, was it worth it? Yes. Always. I'm here. I still get to talk about it. I still get to do it. It is wild.

It is crazy, right? Like, if you took me back to the early 1980s on whatever it is you thought your life would be, what did it look like from back there?

Well, I was very young, so I certainly didn't think I was choosing a career because there was no career to be made. When I turned pro, it meant that I just moved up a division in competition, and then I was gunning for $100 first place prize money. So that didn't feel like a career move. And I was young enough and naive enough to just think, oh, this is fun. And then as I started to get into my later years of high school, it became a living. And I realized when I graduated that, oh, I already have— everyone's figuring out what they're going to do with their life. I have a career path, although I didn't know how long it would last. But, you know, ignorance is bliss and youth is wasted on the young.

It is wasted on the young. But you, I would imagine, had a little bit of your childhood stolen, right? You're doing this one thing professionally, but you're so professional that all of a sudden you're not a kid anymore. You've got a bunch of sponsors at 16.

Yeah, I would say especially in the summer because— or even, even in the— during the school year, because I was expected to travel to these big events. In Florida and in Chicago and in Atlanta. And I would have to miss a Thursday or Friday from school, go there, compete, you know, be there, try to do my best performance, a lot of fans and whatever else, and then go straight back to school on Sunday or come back home Sunday and go to school on Monday. And I was in a different world. I was, I was living this paradox and And then we'd go on tour, it was just every single day, big exhibition, big crowd, drive to the next city, just like a touring band. And I definitely didn't have the same formative years as any of my classmates.

I mean, yeah, that's putting it simply, but in what ways did that end up distorting the adult? The fact that—

It's a little tricky only because, well, I have to say, I think that the silver lining of the downfall of skateboarding, and I don't mean downfall of skateboarding in general, I mean the popularity of it in the early '90s, was that I was faced with reality very quickly. And it was like, oh no, you're an adult now. You are now providing for a family and your chosen career path is fading. And so I had to kind of hustle and figure out how do I make this work while still skating? And I'm thankful for those years because I loved it so much. I wasn't willing to pick up a 9-to-5. I just tried to make it work however I could. And what I mean by that is I would do odd jobs. I was actually a consultant for a few Hollywood shoots. I was the skate consultant because I was too old to be the skater at age 24. Um, and, but that didn't matter. That allowed me to be in the skate world and, and, and still do it, but, but have a different role in it. Um, but it got, you know, it got weird because I was, I was thrust into— I, I kind of bypassed a teenage childhood and then got thrust into responsible adult all at once.

I mean, it really happened very quickly.

Well, take us back there. You're talking early '90s, you have to refinance your house. What other things like that were there where you're looking around and you probably didn't pay attention to your finances the way that you had to when it's all coming in?

Oh no.

You have to concentrate on being great at the thing you do, right?

Yeah. Well, I mean, there were definitely some milestones. I remember driving to the water company to pay my bill in cash. For the better part of a year because I was behind on a couple payments and I got fined because it was a drought and we had a big property. And so that kind of thing sticks with you. Yeah, I mean, really just, just cutting back on all expenses, eating a lot of instant noodles and peanut butter sandwiches.

Oh, so what— so take me through your mental state at that time. So you go from Pulled out of high school, stardom, 20 years of wow, what a—

Well, not, yeah, not 20 years. So I would say that career cycle of the late mid-'80s to early '90s, that happened, that was a span of like 6 or 7 years where it seemed crazy and then it was really crazy and then it was nothing.

Just like that.

Just like that, yeah. I mean, it was like the span of a, of a band with one good album. You know, we toured on it. And I don't mean that in the sense that I was— that my skills were fading or anything. I just mean that no one was interested. And kind of regrouped. Yeah, like you said, I had to refinance my home. I ended up selling it for what I owed the bank and moving into a more modest place and just kind of saving.

But how scared were you, and how much were you looking back with regret on, wait a minute, how did this all end? I didn't expect this was gonna end here.

Yeah, I don't know. I guess I had the inkling that it wasn't going to last only because I had lived through the first wave of popularity of skateboarding in the '70s. And that's when I got into it, was when it was popular. And when I really fell in love with it is when it sort of it dove in popularity, but I didn't care because I was young enough and I was naive enough that the skate park near me was still open. I can still go there whenever I want. I'm still learning these tricks. That's enough for me. Um, and then I realized that, oh, this is dying in popularity because that skate park closed. And then I ended up, uh, localizing a different park, and I got very lucky in that that was one of two skate parks open in the U.S. In those years.

And do the X Games— are they the thing that help all of that readjust in a way where the popularity then returns? That's about '95.

'95, yeah. I would say that that was definitely a catalyst, yeah. The years '92 to '95 were very tricky to make a living as a skateboarder or having a skate company. It just wasn't popular. Parks couldn't afford liability insurance, skate parks. So everyone took to the streets. That became the movement. That was kind of not my style, obviously. So I ended up starting a skate company in those years and getting more of a street team so that I could still be in the industry and I could facilitate them with opportunities, hopefully, because of what I had learned. But it was tricky. I mean, I guess I don't think of those years as such a struggle. It was just more of a learning process.

Well, it sounds like you were confident throughout, and I guess to do what it is that you did in general, you weren't doing a whole lot of measuring of consequences. You're almost not allowed to doubt the way that you're built, given what it is you've done. Like, how much doubt were you allowed?

Yeah, I never thought of dire straits. I never thought of what happens if this doesn't work? I guess just through skating, you learn perseverance. And if there's one thing it teaches you, it teaches you to get back up. So yes, I was hitting all these setbacks in terms of livelihood. And, you know, in a lot of ways, how do I navigate all this? But at the same time, I gotta skate. I mean, that, like, we went on tour, let's just say 1993, we went on a tour a team tour. We were driving a van, beat-up Toyota van that was our delivery van. There were 6 of us. We're going to different skate shops throughout the US. We would skate in a parking lot and they would set up some wooden ramps or curbs or whatever they had. We would skate maybe for anywhere from 40 to 100 people. And then we would beg them for $300 so that we could get a hotel room, gas, and food to get to the next place. And all that sounds like a struggle, but at the same time, we got to skate. We were having a blast. You know, we all stayed, we all shared in one hotel room, and we would go out skating at night, shooting video, street skating in these new towns.

I mean, it was all sort of, I guess it was sort of magical. I don't know. It was—

if I asked you for a quick snapshot on when you were happiest, any time in your life, would, would it be around there, or would it be somewhere else?

No, it'd be somewhere else. But, but definitely, I was— as far as I was concerned, I was living the dream in those moments. That was the best you could hope for in skateboarding, and we made it work. No, I mean, my happiest days are these days. You know, just the idea that skateboarding has come so far and transcended just popular culture. The idea that there are skate parks everywhere now and people are supported in skating into their adult years. I mean, people are literally professional into their adult years. And I get to spend quality time with my kids. I'm a grandparent. You know, these are the days.

Do you have your skateboard on you now? I've been told that you always have it.

I don't need to park. I park super close, so it's in my trunk, yes.

So when was the last time you were fundamentally apart from your skateboard? Do you really take it every— do you take it with you everywhere?

I do, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Everywhere?

Yeah, I mean, while I'm traveling, absolutely. And I carry it on because I don't— I always am worried that it's not gonna show up with me on a plane. In fact, I've had a few go missing. So yeah, I pretty much have it all the time. It's funny 'cause I did park, I parked far enough where I was like, I guess I could skate, that was only a block away. And I was like, that seems a little obnoxious and excessive.

It would be great, that would be great if somebody could be driving and see Tony Hawk just skateboarding a block on Sunset Strip.

There's that element too. But this guy saw me between my car and here and stopped me for a photo. So I guess that did happen anyway.

How many tricks have you invented? Do you have a number? Do you know the number?

I used to, but I just feel like these days with the progression of skating and the evolution of tricks, it just feels pretentious to be like, I invented 80 tricks or whatever.

But I'm asking you, you're not being pretentious. I'm specifically asking you if you know the number.

I did count at one point, it was somewhere around 80 or 90. But there are only a few that have really had staying power. You know, 'cause some of them were kind of silly. Some were so difficult that I only did it a couple times. Like I got one on video and that's all. But there are a few that have actually pushed through the time and the eras and the styles. And so I'm proud of that.

Can you take me through your body on a journey of the things that you have harmed or have needed surgery? Like if you were to— Do it from the bottom of your feet to your head?

Sure, well, okay, starting at my feet, I've definitely rolled both my ankles to such severity that they are almost too loose for safety purposes. I thought I broke it once when I was on tour in France. I mean, I rolled it so far, I just figured, oh, I broke my ankle for sure. Luckily I didn't. I don't really know if that's luck or not. My shins are a disaster. They're just countless stitches. Mm-hmm. I've had knee surgery too, knee surgeries on both knees, mostly for torn cartilage and torn ligaments. I broke my femur. I broke my pelvis. I recently fractured part of my pelvis, actually. I don't know, you might have saw me kind of limping in here. That's getting better though. I, let's see, where do I go from there? I broke my elbow. I've dislocated my fingers. I've gotten stitches on both eyebrows numerous, several times. Had a few concussions and knocked out my front teeth 5 times.

The first when you were 12, 11?

11, yeah.

And what did the parents think of that?

I got lucky because my parents, I have 3 older siblings who are much older than me and all were raised in the '60s and '70s. And so they had been through a lot with raising kids and defiance. And so when I came along, they were kind of just happy that I found something that kept me busy because I was a ball of energy and I always wanted them to take me somewhere or do something. And so—

You tested well, but hyperactive, right? Like not a—

Yeah, I mean, what is that? I don't know what that is these days, but yeah, I tested well for IQ, but definitely was, a lot of energy. Um, they had a lot of different diagnosis for that back then. Uh, I think none that really helped us. But my— once— and then I got hurt. And my— like I said, my dad was in the Navy. My, my other siblings had grown up doing— like, my brother was a surfer. Um, so that wasn't a big deal really back then. I mean, it was to some other parents. They said, you know, a lot of my friends, once they got hurt, their parents said, "You're not doing that ever again," or they broke their skateboard. My dad was kind of like, "Oh, you know, you rang his bell. Get back out there." He wasn't pushy, but he was supportive.

And Navy dads, with whatever that comes with.

Yeah, very stoic and very unemotional.

but also—

saw some shit.

But also let you follow your dreams, right? Like even—

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, he just saw what it brought to me in terms of my sense of self and self-confidence and joy. I mean, it really just brought me joy, even though I was obsessed with it and I was intense with it. It was the one thing, it was my release.

What do you think of when I say the 900? Like, what is it that that means to you?

It was a goal that I had for over 10 years. It's weird now because when you see skateboarding, I mean, I just watched, there was an event, a competition literally yesterday, and this one kid And he literally, as a kid, I think he's maybe 14 or 15, he would go down the starting ramp and start his run with a 900. That's out of the gate. Like, this is where we're starting.

I should tell people that that's 2 360s and a 180.

2 and a half.

Okay, yeah, 2 360s and a 180 is what I'm saying.

Yeah, 2 360s and 180. It has become standard, but there are dozens of people that can now do it. But for me, I did my first 720 in 1985, uh, and that was a step forward because the year before someone had done the first— Mike McGill had done the first 540 backside. So the next following year I did a 720. The years after that I tried to do 900s, but I just could not figure it out because to do so— and, and we didn't have the kind of ramps that are available today. I'm not trying to say like You know, we, back in my day, we just, but we didn't have those kinds of resources.

It's just factual. You're not saying that you were better than today's kids.

We didn't have big ramps to go real high. But I would try it. And because it requires you being blind to your landing twice, there was no way of spotting it. And so you had to go literally on blind faith that it's gonna work. and that if you let go and you stand up, you're in the right place. Um, when I finally got the courage to try to land one, uh, in 1996, I fell forward and broke my rib. Oh, I forgot that there was another injury.

You forgot.

I, I bypassed my ribs. Um, so I broke my rib and kind of put it on the shelf because 1996, I'm not really making a living skateboarding. I want to do this because it's been burned into my psyche that I want to get it done. I want to figure it out. But at that point in my life, there would be, I mean, it wasn't that I was trying to get accolades for it, but it started to become risk versus reward. Like, I remember when the day I broke my rib, I had been trying it at this ramp And because I had to sort of lay there and regroup and process that, I was late to pick up my son at preschool. And for parents, when your kid's the last one at preschool, that sucks, you know? And the preschool, and the teachers just kind of like, "Yeah." So there was some sort of sign there. It was like, "What are you doing? Like, why are you risking yourself for this? You have," someone that relies on you, and now you're late to pick them up because you're trying some dumb skateboard trick that is— that can be tragic.

Way to go, Dad. Yeah, you idiot.

Well, I mean, I didn't really, you know, I didn't think in such grim terms, but definitely there was a part there I was like, I don't really want to try this anymore because if I keep trying it, I'm not going to be able to skate, like do events or anything, because I was still— yes, it was '96, like I was doing some exhibitions in parking lots of amusement parks to make a living, and that was something, and I had to be healthy enough for that. So it wasn't until 1999 during the X Games Best Trick event that I actually figured this move out.

As you go through all of this, are you always grateful when you're ending up in the parking lot of an amusement park and you used to be Tony Hawk, or is some part of you lamenting like, ugh, this could have felt more positive than this? Are you being made sad by any of where it is? No, I don't think so. You're just happy because you get to do it anywhere?

I never was like, woulda, coulda, shoulda. I was, or, you know, like an Uncle Rico vibe where it's like, I was the guy. I was thankful. I was thankful to still have some opportunity.

That's great. It's just— it— but it just tells you what you came from in skateboarding, that any opportunity would always feel like an opportunity. And so you just have that hunger. It never— it never gets fat.

Yeah, I mean, I got to— well, I'd say I was definitely an outsider, especially in those years. Like, Matt Hoffman, uh, who is the legendary BMX rider, he had a whole, uh, competition exhibition series And at some point, he and I became friends, pretty fast friends in the early '90s. And he would invite me as the special guest skateboarder. And so I'm doing bike demos as the skateboarder. And then fast forward a couple years, I was the guest skateboarder at Rollerblade exhibitions, like literally for the company Rollerblade. And it was like, oh, we've gotta, you know, We've got a surprise. This, this skateboarder you might know, an icon for cool, really, though. I mean, I was just happy to skate.

Always.

Yeah. Yeah.

Can you articulate for us what it is about the connection between you and that board, what it is between this sport and you that feeds you spiritually?

Um, I think it was always a sense of freedom for me and the artistic expression, even though I didn't know how to articulate that when I was a kid. But honestly, it's the sense of control that I have. Like, when I go skate, I'm in complete control of my movements, of my direction, of my moves, of how I feel. And yeah, there's obviously things can go wrong, mistakes can be made, or something goes amiss, but it's the one time in my life where I am centered, like completely centered, and know exactly what is coming. And not to say that I don't embrace my life outside of that, or the surprises that come with it and the challenges that come with it. I love it. But when I'm skating, It's just a sense of calm. It's like, that's my zone.

What's second place for you in terms of that is the place that I'm as present as I am when I'm skating?

Oh, well, just having your kids. I mean, my wife and I, between us, we have 6 kids, 5 boys who are in their 20s, and my oldest is in his 30s. And then my daughter is turning, probably by the time this comes out, she'll be 18. And just to— when we, you know, when they get that old, it's really hard to have a captive audience or to get them to agree to anything you're going to do. So when we have any of them around, my wife and I have this sense of joy that's just understood. You know, we don't make a big deal about it. We don't— we don't try to scare them away. But we definitely— there are moments where we're like, we did it. They're here, look at this. And they wanna be here.

Riley's a professional skateboarder.

Yep.

How do you feel about that?

It's fun. It's really, well, he, his discipline is different than mine. He is more of a street skater and even a park skater. So his techniques and approaches are different. I'm really proud of how he has managed to carve his own path and even create his— or curate his own audience in terms of the types of skaters that look up to him are not the types of skaters that think what I do is cool. And I think he was discouraged in his early years, especially his early teens, to have the name Hawk because it just carried so much weight for him. But he's managed to I think, navigate in the best ways he could.

It seems though like he wouldn't have had a normal life growing up as your son, given that he marries, you know, Kurt Cobain and Courtney Love's daughter, and the wedding is officiated by Michael Stipe. Like, that's not a normal thing, I don't think, all the time.

No, but that has nothing to do with my involvement. I mean, they met on their own, and now we have this beautiful grandchild that is at our house most days. And he's the most fun thing ever.

When you mentioned the pelvic injury, that's the one that hurt the most, right? Physically, from among all of them?

No, breaking my femur was by far the most pain I've ever felt. Mostly because when it happened, I felt it disconnect. And when you feel that, you really like, your limb is gone. It feels like your limb is gone. I can't say what it's like to actually lose a limb, but that's the sense I had. And when they had to move me, especially onto a stretcher, the majority of my leg is just dangling. So someone else has to actually support it and they're jostling it. And it was so intense that I feel like I kind of went somewhere else. And then going to the hospital, obviously, they give you an IV and you're on painkillers. But then moving me to the X-ray machine was the second most intense pain I've ever felt. Yeah, that was, I mean, I think that breaking my pelvis set me up for that and understanding of like, oh, this is the kind of pain where you can't move your body at all. I mean, when my pelvis, 'Cause when you have a femur, when they fix it, they want you to get up and they want blood flowing immediately. When you break your pelvis, you just sit.

And if you sneeze, if you cough, if you have to go to the bathroom, it's traumatic. So the recovery was daunting, tricky, painful, but the femur was kind of, Everything.

When I asked you at the beginning, was it all worth it? Is it all worth it? The reason I ask is because with the wisdom and perspective and pain of age, you can look back at the cost of what it costs to be you. And it's— all your dreams came true, but it comes with the cost that later in life you have— you're carrying a pain of your body wears these scars.

Yeah, you know, but nothing has been so debilitating that I wasn't able to recover from it for the most part. I mean, since I broke my leg, there are a bunch of techniques that I just had to let go of. Some because I can't physically do them, some because they're not worth the risk anymore. I think it was a hard lesson, but a necessary one. But yeah, I mean, I could have done without a couple of bad concussions and some silly incidents of just fucking around and finding out. You know, there's stuff that I did, like I was on Wild Boys, the Jackass MTV show, and we were dressed up as monkeys skating because they had a chimpanzee that could skate. So they brought this chimpanzee to the ramp, Bob Burnquist and I dressed up in monkey skates, we're skating, we ended up going into his full loop ramp, which is something that we had done before, but that day didn't work out. And I ended up with a super bad concussion, breaking my thumb, breaking my pelvis. Yeah, that day I could definitely do without.

Do you realize the absurdity of all the words you just strung together there?

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I lived through it, so, and I've seen it on video plenty of times, so yes.

You gave yourself over to the cause pretty thoroughly there on behalf of being a stable character. I did, yeah.

It was funny, they actually, I mean, they used that segment in Wild Boys without me falling at all. That was sort of near the end of the shoot. So we got what they came for, I guess.

What is the story that you can tell that would be interesting to people about what you declined with the gaming business that came your way to buy out because they wanted to buy your likeness and then watching the explosion of what has been your gaming status?

Well, when our first game was about to be released, I think they could tell there was a groundswell of interest and good feedback. I didn't— I'm very green to this. I mean, I played video games my whole life, but I had never actually worked on a video game. So they could tell that something was happening. And just before the release, they said, uh, we want to offer you a buyout of future royalties. I said, what does, what does that mean? And they said, well, we want to offer you $500,000. And then that's, that's on the basis of the game might sell that much and you can get that upfront. And then when I read the fine print, it means that's all you get going forward. Um, and to be fair, at that time in my life, someone even saying half a million dollars sounded outrageous. It's like someone saying, oh, I'm going to give you half a billion dollars. Okay, sign me up. Um, but there was a sense that things were kind of turning around in the skate industry. Things were definitely turning around in my career opportunities. I was doing pretty well. I just, I just bought a house that I could really afford the mortgage of.

And I had my second kid at that point. And I thought, maybe I just let it ride. I mean, it seemed like an insane gamble, but I felt pretty secure. And so I did that. I said, "No, I'm just gonna see how it goes." And I mean, it was the best financial decision of my life, for sure.

Is there a way that you can explain that without being overtly reaching into your private stuff? Just like, so you turn down $500,000 and that ends up being a decision.

I mean, the game changed my life. The royalties were absurd. At one point, we were releasing our 5th game, which was Underground, and the previous 4 games were still in the top 10 of all video game sales. So we had a good run.

Okay, so they knew what they were doing when they offered to buy you out at that rate?

Yeah, and you know what, I know, but well, I don't think they thought there was gonna be sequel upon sequel upon sequel. I don't think anyone was trying to pull a fast one. They're a company, you know, they're trying to be profitable. I am so thankful for my relationship with Activision. Like, there's no way I could sit here and denounce that they tried to do that. And to me, that was a, I guess it was more, that was a boost of confidence that maybe I needed back then, 'cause everything was uncertain. The video game was uncertain. Our skateboarding's future was uncertain.

Have you always bet on yourself?

Yeah, I'd like to think so. I mean, I definitely don't just take, I mean, at some point, especially in the early '90s, I had to take whatever I could, but it wasn't like I was in a position to negotiate. But yeah, absolutely, because I didn't give in. I never gave up on skateboarding.

Where does that come from, do you think? Your willingness to bet on yourself.

Stubbornness, obsessiveness, determination, all qualities I had as a kid. My mom, I mean, definitely there were other parents that were like, "He's a nightmare. He's very difficult." My mom said, "He's just determined." So that was my spin.

I mean, that's what champions have though, don't they?

I think so, yeah. But sometimes at the cost of—

Everything.

Everything else in their life, their relationships, their, you know, whatever. But it's something you— it's really hard to turn off. That's all I can say about having that sort of drive, is once it gets in you, once you know it works, how do you stop it?

But that's the cost to being a champion, isn't it, right? Like Drew Brees would say, and Drew Brees, great at what he did in a number of different ways, but not quite you or your equivalent at football in terms of reinventing the entirety of the industry. You have to be— it's lonely. The greatness is lonely. Only, that you, that you end up having to do a bunch of different things, that the cost is relationships, it's things missed, it's life missed.

Sure. And, but there's also, there's another part of that, that because I had been through a wave of success and then a dip of success and challenges that came with that, once it turned around, it was so hard to say no because I had been through the hardest years of what doing what I'm doing. And so how could I ever turn anything down? And you get lost in that because then it's like, oh yes, going there. Sure. This, this deal. Okay. Yeah. Shoot a commercial in New York. Let's go. Okay. Yeah. I'm going to Europe for these events and you really lose yourself in that cycle. Which you can hear about bands, comedians burning out because they're just traveling and they're taking every opportunity and they're trying to record new stuff. And I definitely felt that, but at the same time it was like, I gotta strike while it's hot. And it stayed hot for a lot longer than I ever imagined.

But that's what hunger, that's how you stay hungry, right? Is in some ways never being satiated because you've arrived.

Like, I don't know. Yeah, the hunger wasn't for, more success, the hunger was, was skating. And I guess the irony of all that was that I was finally able to skate for myself and not just for fun, but really be creative because I didn't have to rely on it to make a living anymore, which was strange because in those, in those earlier days, everything relied on my skating. And my performances, everything. And so I was skating even when I was hurt. I had to get back out there. And then when it wasn't the thing that I was doing to provide for a family, it became the most fun thing because I could just do it in any form and really test new techniques and new limits. And I mean, those days, I mean, like, I'd say my years of sort of 2005 to 2012 were some of the most creative.

It's interesting to hear you say that because, um, you're obviously a great, uh, brand ambassador. So you don't say anything about the burdens or very much about the burdens of being you, but to hear you tap back into your childhood skating.

Yeah.

After before the responsibilities, before the burden of money, before the burden of being you, the liberty in that to be an artist again, like you were when you were a kid. It's interesting to hear you see it from that perspective in adulthood.

Yeah, and I don't think I appreciated it then because I was just always doing it. It wasn't until I got older and realized I'm not capable of these things or they're they're far more dangerous than I ever acknowledged, that I appreciate. So yeah, it's more in hindsight, but it was just so much fun. And even now it's still so much fun. There is definitely a burden, I guess, if there's any burden that I was not chosen necessarily, but at some point I was supposed to represent skateboarding to a broader audience, or that was sort of expected of me because I had the opportunities that other skaters didn't to go on to talk to bigger media outlets or whatever it is. And I did feel that sense of responsibility. You know, I never took that for granted, that, okay, yes, I will be here. Yes, I'm more of a halfpipe skater. I'm more of this era, But this is what's happening in skateboarding. This is— this is the contemporary of skateboarding, is street skating and these skaters and this crew that we invited to be part of our video game and all that. And I always felt like I had to represent it authentically, and no one really put that on me.

I think I just sort of grew into it because you loved it so much and because you needed it to Too forward?

I had too much respect for it as a whole than just being successful myself. I would say probably my mentor in that was Stacy Peralta. Stacy Peralta was always driven to represent skateboarding in the best light and show it to a bigger audience. He just never had a vehicle like I had with the video game.

But how did you come to realize that it was your calling to be forever a salesman for the sport?

Um, wow, I know, because you love it. Because I don't think of those terms. I, I guess it's just more that, that I knew— I mean, in those days, and, and, you know, these are, these are just media examples, but I was invited to do Leno and I was invited to do Letterman, and, and at some point I felt the need to speak on behalf of the skateboard world, which was far bigger than me and far bigger than my accomplishments. Um, I, and I don't know what, what I can't explain. No one really planted that seed. No one said, oh, you know, with great power comes great responsibility. You have to go out there and do this. It was just more like, I just wanted skateboarding to be more— I just wanted to be more awareness of it and for kids to be encouraged to do it. I think that was one of the big shifts, especially with, um, the popularity of our video game, the popularity of X Games, is that parents finally encourage their kids to try it. In my day, like, I got lucky that my dad did. None of my friends' parents wanted them skating.

It It was no future, it was a bad influence, they're punks, they're trespassing, they're skating public property, and so it was like—

It's counterculture and you helped bring it to the mainstream. You are part of that bridge. I don't know if you blanched when I said salesman on behalf of the sport. You're a great advocate and activist on behalf of what it is.

I'll take credit and blame, how's that?

Oh, but it's—

Plenty of people didn't want it to be on that level.

But it's so beautiful to hear you love it so much that the skateboard is still a block from where it is that we are, and you want to be everywhere as a sermonizer for this thing that you love still, that you love and fills you.

Sure. I mean, it's definitely— it's a big part of my identity, if not the biggest part, because it's the thing that I've done the longest in my life. And I'm proud of that, you know, and I mean, I'm proud that— well, selfishly, I'm proud that I still can skate, um, on a professional level-ish. And, um, but honestly, to see, to see a new generation, uh, gravitate to skateboarding, the fact that they have skate parks all over— we're still, we're still trying to build more and get in more underserved areas. But the fact that they have that available to them at any given time, and it's not elitist, it's not exclusive, it's not the '70s, you're not gonna get bullied necessarily. It's more like everyone's welcome, jump in.

If I ask you to sort of itemize or list the things that you are proudest of where numerically on the list would be raising more than $13 million for, you know, more than 600 skate parks all over the United States?

I don't know, it's probably a top 5. I think, yeah. I mean, firstly, being available to my family and providing for them, but mostly being close to them. Just skateboarding, being able to skateboard is up there. But providing skateparks is so, is so close to my heart. It's such a passion. I mean, when I was growing up, I got very lucky that I lived near one of the last skateparks that existed at that time. And it was never lost on me that I had a place of belonging because skateboarding was not cool in the early '80s. It was probably the furthest thing from cool you could do. I got hassled a lot at school. In fact, I would hide my skateboard before school in the bushes near the bungalows, San Diego High. And I would hide it, and then when the bell rang, I would go retrieve my board, 'cause if I walked through campus with it, I would get harassed, they would steal it, I'd get thrown in a trash can. I mean, it was the '80s, you know? That's how it was. You got picked on. And so nowadays, that whole attitude has shifted so far the other way where, I mean, for the most part, like the cool kids in school skate, which is wild to me.

And so if I had anything to do with that shift of consciousness, I'm hugely proud of it. But just the idea that, that skateboarding's part of the zeitgeist.

I mean, you helped make it popular. You helped make it okay.

I mean, that's my best work then.

It's pretty impressive work.

900 schmeinhundert.

Were you indeed bullied? Did you feel like you were? Oh yeah. You were, so you—

For sure, yeah. I got, I mean, I was really small for my age, so from, 7th grade on when kids are hitting their growth spurts. I mean, I literally looked like— people used to think I was visiting my older brother in high school, like especially in 9th grade. And then I was a skater, so, you know, in the hallway, skater fag, all that stuff like that, that was rampant. And those aren't my words, you know, those are my bully's words. Um, but like I said, we, you know, we was— we didn't have any resources. We didn't, you know, we didn't know how to navigate that. No one was getting in trouble for it. Um, it was just the way that you've— and, you know, that's sort of the story of Generation X, I guess.

When did you become cool? I don't know.

Has that happened yet?

That's funny, uh, because you became an icon for cool somewhere in there. You became—

I mean, yeah, I never was comfortable with that idea, that moniker, because it just, I wasn't, I never felt cool, you know? And I always felt like an outsider, even in skateboarding. When I found skateboarding and I found this thing that I love, that I want to focus on, the way that I did it was uncool. So I'm in this, I already am existing on this island of misfits being a skateboarder, and then I'm an outcast on that island because of the way I do skateboarding. Yeah, I just never, you know, I was always very self-conscious. I think I finally sort of grew into my own ease through my adult years, not even through the video game cycle, but just more coming out the other side of that and realizing what is truly important, and that is my family. That's when I felt much more comfortable in my own skin. And I had a sense of confidence. I always felt pretty confident with my skateboarding, but more that I'm not trying to prove myself all the time, and more that it's just fun. And that is very liberating. And that kind of puts you at ease and makes you feel, I guess, better about yourself.

'Cause there is sort of a, issue with not anxiety, but just, just your, your social skills, your socializing. The only way I knew how to socialize was skateboarding. So people thought once I got really good at it, people thought, oh, he's just pompous. He doesn't talk to anyone. I was like, I don't know what to say. I feel just as uncomfortable as you do. Just because I'm good at that, this doesn't make it any different.

Did you have an epiphany or anything when it came to family and the things that you're talking about where you're discovering the idea of— it's not just the having of kids, right?

No, no, no. And well, you know, I was always good with my kids when I was around, but when things started taking off, I was chasing them further than I ever should have and getting caught up in the cycle and the hype and whatever else. I think it was more coming through that and just realizing I could just say no. That was the moment. Like, I don't have to go to this thing. I'm saying yes to every single thing. And a lot of it is unnecessary and also not to the benefit of skateboarding. It's just to the benefit of my ego. And that was, I think that was the moment. It was, you know, it was probably within the last 15 years, It was really, it was powerful.

And you discovered that you had to say no because you'd done one too many things that you didn't want to do. You left something.

Yeah, and I would catch myself being really far away, doing something that wasn't productive. And it was like, what's the point of all this? This isn't where I was. These aren't the priorities I had or should have. And then really just making myself available. And things took a, I mean, to be honest, everything's much more rewarding now. Skateboarding, just the act of skateboarding means a lot more to me because I have a different perspective on it. And knowing that my kids, can rely on me for whatever it is they need, even if it's just being there.

What's the different perspective that you have? Like, where did you come upon what you're talking about there, where you're, you're expressing the wisened— wisened wisdom of an elder?

It just comes with making poor choices, and, and to the point where you're making more poor choices than good choices. And recognizing that. And I think that everyone has their moment, their epiphany. Mine came gradually, then all at once.

So forgive me on this because you thought I was seizing on the perspective change on the family. I was seizing on the perspective change as it related to skateboarding, where your experience with life so far has made it so that you clearly have an appreciation for being able to still do it.

It was— that moment came when I broke my leg because it was, it was even when I broke my pelvis, I knew there was this timeline and I still had events planned that I was like, okay, that's the goal. I'm going to go get, I'm going to be well enough to do this event. When I broke my leg, like everything stopped. And I think I, when I got back to it, I came back too quickly. I sabotaged my recovery. My bone never really lined up again, so I had to have it reset. I had to have a second surgery 8 months later. And once I had that surgery and realized that it could all— it all could be taken away from me so quickly like that, it gave me such a deeper appreciation for even being able to do it on a basic level. Um, so that— I think that that's the answer, is, is, is it wasn't just the day I broke my leg, it was the moment I realized that it's not going to heal properly and I have to go through this again. Um, I remember, honestly, I remember my first ollie after that when I had strength in my leg to snap up and get my board.

It was like, oh yes! And then ever since then, like, every ollie is a gift.

My guess would be— I don't want to speak for you here, but my guess would be that what happened there is that you realized for the first time that it there was a possibility that you would never be able to skate again, where you'd never considered that.

I never did, no. I mean, probably that benefited me in a lot of ways, 'cause I would be willing to push limits that other people would consider consequences. I mean, Sam Jones did a whole documentary about me, basically, that that's not really considering consequences, but I'm much better at that now.

Yeah, well, that's what you're articulating. When you just said— I wanted to seize from a couple of minutes ago where you seem to still be saying that you didn't realize the danger involved in what it is that you were doing.

I mean, of course I know that anything can go wrong, but I always was confident enough with my skill set and cavalier enough that I was— I just didn't— I wouldn't let that enter my mind because when you do, that's the future. That's what's going to happen. When you allow these worst-case scenarios to come in, those are the ones that will play out. Yeah, I mean, when I first figured out the loop ramp, in no way did I think, "Oh, I might fall from the top and break my pelvis," because if I thought that, I would never try it. And I figured it out. I definitely got, I got rocked along the way. Or MTV said, "What kind of stunt do you wanna do?" I said, "I wanna jump between two buildings." And they set it up, downtown LA, two 7-story buildings. And I not once thought, "What if something happens?" 'Cause I just, it wasn't, it wasn't gonna happen.

I'm really not sure if you're supremely confident, courageous, or dumb when I ask the following question, because courage isn't the absence of fear, it's the ability to overcome fear. But it sounds like you didn't consider fear.

My way of overcoming fear was visualizing the successful outcome. Always. It didn't always work, but, but in terms of, for instance, jumping a building, I'm gonna get over it. I mean, I'll make it, but I'm getting over that gap no matter what. Or, or something with the loop or the 900, it was like, I'm gonna get close enough to this that I can feel confident in trying to land it.

How many times did you fail at the 900?

Uh, hundreds. I don't know about thousands because it's such a violent, uh, crash when you, when you try to make it and you don't, that you only get maybe 5 real good attempts when you're trying to learn it before your body just says No more. So, um, through the years of 1994 to 1997, I would go through phases of trying it, but I would only get maybe 20 attempts in a session because then I'm just beat up.

The reason I asked the question is because there's no reason for you to have confidence that you're going to be able to do it if you failed 100 times before.

When I when I, I always knew, I always felt like it was possible. And then when all the pieces came together that I thought, I thought I had the pieces of the puzzle and I broke my rib, that really set me back because I was like, that, that was the moment I had everything I needed and it didn't work. I don't know what I did wrong. I mean, I obviously know what I did wrong in leaning too far forward, but I don't know if I have it in me to get to that point again. And so when, uh, when the X Games, the '99 X Games came along, I had tried it a few times since then, but, and got somewhat close, but I didn't really have the, the drive or the desire to try to set it down again because of what had happened to me. And so when I got to X Games, the best trick event, I was not going to try that because I That was not my best trick. I'd never done that trick. So how could I go forward with something that was unknown? So I had a different trick in mind.

I made that trick halfway into the event. Then I had nowhere to go. And the announcer, Dave Duncan, who was the MC of the live event, not the one on air, but the one that was for the live crowd, he said, "Oh, I bet he's going to try that 900. Like, let's see that 900." I'm like, "Oh no." I don't want to try that. Like, I haven't figured that one out, but I guess why not try it for the crowd? And somewhere around my third or fourth attempt, I had a consistent spin, I had consistent speed. The ramp was built better than any ramp that we had skated in those days. Um, and I thought, you know what, if I'm ever going to try to land it again, even if I get hurt, it would be here because this is the biggest thing we've ever had. And I've got my peers supporting me. I've got the support of the crowd. The time had ended, but I just wanted to make the trick. Like, I didn't think it was going to count for the event. And I remember thinking, all right, I'm just going to throw one down.

And I threw one down and I fell forward again, but I didn't break my rib and I got up pretty quick. And that was— that was the moment. That I knew I could do it because I thought, oh, I can— I'll get another chance at it, and I'm going to shift my weight to my back foot as I spin. That's the key. And I did that, and then when I landed, I fell backwards, and it was like, I just gotta split the difference. And then I made the next one.

Where does that rank in terms of the best individual feelings you've ever had in any moment of doing this?

Um, that was definitely the, the best— that was my best competitive, um, performance. Um, that was— and it was definitely one of the heights of, of progression and learning tricks that I could ever experience. I mean, I never expected it to be in front of an audience like that. When I first tried it to make it in 1996, I was literally on a ramp in a warehouse by myself. With my friend shooting video on a Hi8 camera. And then fast forward to 3 years later and it's live on ESPN. We like, it was just absurd.

And maybe you couldn't have done it if not for all of those factors pushing you into the air, right? Like all of that.

I mean, I suppose there's definitely a, there's, there's definitely a, a synchronicity that I tried to do it so many times. For a video or just for myself, and I just came up short, and it had to be that time.

Do you think about legacy at all?

I try not to because it just makes you feel so old, you know?

But consequences again, thinking about mortality and thinking about—

I mean, legacy, it's such a lofty word too. I hope my legacy is someone that brought more attention to skateboarding, represented it well, and provided more places to do it. That's the best I can hope for.

I mean, you know that that's so, right? It's not just Tony Hawk's Vert Alert that takes place in Utah this summer. It's also what we were talking about, the skatepark project. Skatepark project, yeah.

I mean, that's definitely my proudest work. Also, the idea that now that skateboarding is so prolific, that I'm drawing more attention to this discipline of skateboarding, which is vertical halfpipe skating, because that's still one that I think is underappreciated. It was almost gone from the X Games, um, when they brought it back. I'm campaigning for it to be in the Olympics. Uh, it won't be in LA because it has to go through a different process, but I feel like it is, it is a valid part of skateboarding and one that crowds appreciate, one that, that even skaters themselves appreciate. And so that's what I'm doing with Vert Alert. We, we started this competition when there were very few vert Events, um, 6 years ago. Uh, yes, it's in Salt Lake City at the Huntsman Center, August 21st, 22nd. It's free to the public. Uh, it's the best vert skating, the best vert skaters. Um, but since we started that, a bunch of other events have come to pass, and I'm really proud of that. In fact, like one I just watched last night, uh, vert's back in the X Games. They're, uh, they have a series called Jackalope.

There is a series coming up in Brazil called STU, like And that's— for me, that's more of my selfish legacy, is that I was able to help vert skating get back on the map.

What would the 17-, 18-, 19-year-old you say if I told him from what is now Tony Hawk's adult perspective, "You're not gonna believe what unspools in your life here over the next—" 3 or 4 decades.

I say, you mean when I'm 30? Yeah, right.

Yeah, you weren't thinking that far ahead, right? Yeah, you didn't think that you'd be this age to be able to even look back on it.

I remember Thrasher printing a photo of Mark Lake, who was a legendary skater from Florida, and I was maybe 20. And it said, "Mark Lake, 30 and still ripping." And I remember thinking, "Wow, he's still skating at 30.

That's wild." When did you get more comfortable, no longer being shy or uncomfortable in front of microphones or just whatever the discomforts were at the beginning that you had with fame?

There wasn't some aha moment for that. Just gradually. Figuring it out and realizing that this is what will be expected of me, especially with video games. I mean, I was going on press tours, like I was going to Australia for a week. I was going to the UK, all over Europe, and being interviewed endlessly. And I think I just got used to that.

How long were you bad at it or shy or uncomfortable? Did you feel shy and uncomfortable? Oh yeah, yeah.

I mean, that— well, you know, all that stuff's documented, but if you look at interviews me in the '80s, like, I was not good. No? I mean, but also I was very self-deprecating. I think there was one interview where I said, you know, who's your main competition today? And I say, I think I'm gonna have a hard time beating anyone that entered this contest.

You just didn't, you didn't like the process though, right? That you weren't, that's not what you were there for. You weren't there to talk about it.

But also we had no, We had no guidance. I mean, we had no one to look up to that had already made these things happen and was good at it. It was like, I don't know. What do you want me to say?

I'm here to skate. Why are you interviewing skateboarders? Nobody ever interviews the skateboarders, right? Yeah. Because you're speaking of the most primitive of times. You're really talking like the original caveman, the original caveman of skateboarding. I suppose.

I mean, but I was just really young too, and I was so intense with competition that it was like, "Why do you wanna talk to me? This is what's happening. This is my thing." I mean, there was one event where I was kind of, I don't think I was really happy with my skating at the time, and I was just sort of bitter about, the event and how I was feeling. And they said, you know, how you feeling today? I was like, I don't feel like skating. That was my interview. Cool.

It's a shitty interview.

Yeah. Oh yeah. Thanks for the soundbite, Tony.

You never hear an athlete do that when they're doing— they're talking to them. Yeah, I don't feel like doing this.

Yeah, it's like, great, glad we flew you out here.

Yeah. And you were just And was it you were just feeling moody that day? You decided to be honest?

I think I just wasn't happy with my skating. And I was always my worst critic.

You are obsessive, right? You would have to be.

Obsessive, yeah.

And in order to be the kind of great you were at what you were doing, you have to be compulsive, or still are, really. Your body doesn't— can't do the things that it did. But you have to be compulsive as like a sculptor, right?

Well, I didn't have to be, but I was. And I didn't know any other way. And I think what I missed in that process was the camaraderie that everyone else felt because we were all suddenly thrust into a spotlight and traveling the world and everyone's having a blast. And I'm just like, I have to do the best I can do. I have to get, you know, I have to learn new tricks. I have to figure out strategy and And I was locked in, and I mean, definitely it saved me from falling down a party route. But at the same time, when I look back, I wasn't really one of the guys. I was sort of on my own island trying to figure this out.

Is it because you were more competitive than they were?

I just thought I had to prove myself at every turn because when I was growing up, um, especially at events, I felt like no one likes what I do. They don't like the way I do it. And so I have to step it up. And then when I got sponsored by the Bones Brigade, it was, there were a lot, there was a lot of talk like, that kid, Bones Brigade? So I was like, I have to prove myself to be on this team. You know, there were always these sort of stepping stones that was like, well, I have to prove myself worthy of that.

But it was still joyful, right? You were just an outsider from the—

It was joyful.

It wasn't a team sport. It was—

It was intense for sure, but it was— the most fun was skating. I mean, honestly, the most fun for me was the day after a contest because all that pressure was lifted and I could go try new tricks. And so I was back on the ramp or in the pool the next day.

That's funny to hear you say that though, because that's adding expectations, pressures, money, commerce, all of it to it makes it less pure than what it is that you love about it.

Oh, I mean, at some point it drove me away from it, yeah.

Thank you, Tony, for the time. Thank you for the work. I will tell people again, State Park Project, check out everything he's doing at TonyHawk.com. Thank you for spending the time with us. Thanks for having me.