Transcript of Hour 2: Against The Breakfast Spread (Feat. Ken Rofgers)

You're listening to DraftKings Network.

This is the Dan Laboratory Show with the Stuttgart's podcast. Alright. You know what time it is. It's time for against the spread. Sponsored by DraftKings.

Stay tuned because you'll hear more about DraftKings and all it has to offer offer throughout the show. DraftKings, the crown is yours. I'm going to start with an easy 1. The New York Rangers at the Buffalo Sabers, not much needed to be added here. Rangers are favorites at a goal and a half.

Take the Rangers tonight against the

the Really? Minus goal to have.

That's all. Nothing more needs

to be said. Nothing more

needs to be said.

I mean, the Sabers are 1 of the worst teams

I've ever seen.

Yeah. Nothing needs to be said.

Nothing needs to be said. Nothing needs to be said. Nothing needs to be said. Nothing needs to be said. Nothing needs to be said.

Nothing needs to be said. Nothing needs to be said. Nothing's playing

for their city, Roy.

Yeah.

Well, it's going solid. That's tuned.

Yeah. The I mean, this the I mean, the Bills. They got the Bills. Don't worry about that.

Alright. Roy, you mentioned the Bills. I'm gonna take the Bills. Plus 2a half over the Detroit Lions. Sunday in Wow.

85. Wow.

Why do

you ask? Great question. We talked about this, week and a half ago or so, more or less. This is a big statement game for both teams, but not necessarily the statement that you wanna make because it's also the opportunity for revenge game for both teams. Should this be the Super Bowl that a lot of people wanna see?

Now here's what you ask yourself. Both teams, do they wanna win this game or do they wanna lose this game? Because if you lose the game, then you create a revenge game for yourself. And both of these teams were need for quality losses to kinda motivate them

a little

bit more. 1 and 17 against the spread. We should hear

them out. On

it.

Be a quality loss for both teams, and it's a it's a game in which we discussed. You don't pull out all the stops. You leave some stops in there. So then should you have the rematch in the Super Bowl, then you think, we saw all the stops. They were all pulled out.

No. Boom. New stop. Not anticipated. You catch the other team off guard.

However, both teams are kind of in the same position where they could do this to the other team. So you wonder, how many stops will be in? How many will be pulled? Who knows? I'm gonna go with the Bills plus 2a half against

the spread. Does that count toward your record?

No. This is not.

No. No.

Against the spread is different, and and here's the thing, I won last season of against the spread. I won big prize. Still waiting on it to arrive, but I won the big prize last season. My against the spread, honestly, is probably better than my big board best record. It's kinda crazy.

Jessica. I think your reasoning sounded

The spread.

I'm taking army this weekend to cover 6a half against navy because Bryson Daley, the army quarterback, the army team this year, they have been so good except for that 1 game against Notre Dame. We don't count Don't worry about that 1. Bryson Dealey, by the way, a 100% completion percentage last weekend. He threw 2 passes, but the army offense is elect so is the navy offense really, but I think armies is just slightly better. Statistically, they've just been slightly better this season.

Navy's fallen a few times. I think this is Army's, and I think they're gonna cover.

Thank you for your support.

I guess it's better than that.

Both sides in that game. Samson, why are you laughing at Stugots' maniacal coughing and choking and he would Billy made me laugh. We're we're in a contract year. We're trying to do the sponsor crying. The sponsored segment correctly, and Stugaats is just coughing and wheezing as Billy says both teams need to lose so somebody has a revenge game.

Correct. And my stomach hurts so badly that I'm doubled over him.

Same here.

Here's the candy.

Yeah. Something's going on, because someone else today had a tummy ache too, and everyone's being a brave boy today and just kinda working through it.

The bacon sandwiches?

Coco was sick also.

Wow.

I I think there was there's something going on, but I'm just saying that I I thought it was more show related, but it it could be the potatoes with the pork.

It is not the potatoes and the pork. Right.

Sam gets something against the breakfast spread.

I like it.

I'll leave. No. That was a good 1. No. That 1 was a good 1.

Roy, get them.

You can, you can stay here. And I'm also gonna create another penalty because you guys, deciding when it is you leave sort of defeats the purpose of punishment. So I'm gonna I'm gonna get a punishment that you guys don't actually wanna walk into where, you guys offering the bad joke and then I'll leave because you get rewarded for it. We're gonna fix the way the punishment

is set. The penalty box right now, so please kick me out.

Okay. Yeah.

I need to finish getting mashed.

Well, I might kick Stegatsek because he was a wild Genesis. He refuses

I will take his punishment.

He would no. Again, not understanding the way punishments work. That's not what we're gonna do right now. I do wanna ask you guys a question here before we get to the useless sound montage. Odell Beckham, when I say that name, it was not long ago that that was a New York superstar, that that was an athlete that, was, Kardashian world adjacent, pop culture famous, Internet famous in a way that made him a giant sports star.

The New York Giants have been basically an unmitigated echoing failure since they were photographed on a boat wearing wearing whatever it is, jeans, shirtless, and, like, construction boots. They were all wearing it. Take care, Stegats. I hope you're okay. I hope you don't die.

Maybe you should have Genesis, take it out of your, system. Now it's now now now well, and now you're coughing too because there are a number of elements playing defense against me being able to do this well or professionally today. Mostly all of the people I'm paying. It's almost all of the people that I'm paying. It's been perfect.

There's a whole lot of been going on that nobody sees, behind the scenes that has made today an unmitigated disaster in every way that these things are produced. But the question I was asking you is about Odell Beckham, a huge sports star, once upon a time. For the Miami Dolphins on Sunday, he had 1 catch for 1 yard. And I'm asking you, would he have preferred to see 0 catches for 0 yards in the box score when he left that football game? Or does a huge sports star once upon a time leave that football game, feeling proud that he contributed 1 yard and 1 catch to a victory.

We did not plan this, Dan, but you're talking about superstars pinch hitting. I'm gonna move it to baseball and then relate it back to answer your question. There are players who say do not pinch hit me on an off day. The big guys who are getting paid a lot of money, they don't want to prepare and do what's necessary to have the 1 at bat and then stare at a doughnut and an o for 1 going against the closer throwing 99. So they ask for the full day.

Odell Beckham, the question is before the game starts, is he told by coach McDaniel, hey. Listen. You're put shoes on. You you're gonna be in the you're gonna be in this. Or was it, oh, Christ.

Go back.

Put your shoes on.

It's not. He expected to have a big day. I'm assuming he always expects to have a big day because he's Odell Beckham. I don't think that, I don't think that he's happy at his role with the dolphins. And anytime you're taking a prop bet on Odell Beckham this year, it's over under.

Will he have 11 and a half yards for the game? Because he's their 3rd receiver or, actually, he's their 3rd wide receiver allegedly, in name value, but they got about 7 guys they're more likely to throw it to on any given route. I'm just asking you the question about, the box score itself. When it's 1 catch for 1 yard, would Odell Beckham prefer that that that be 0 catches for 0 yards?

I think he wants the yard and the catch.

No. Because I tend to think about Michael Irvin in this situation. I think he wants the yards. I think he wants more yards. I think he wants more catches.

Yeah.

You think he wants no targets as opposed to, like, a stat line that's 9 yards, 1 reception?

No. No. Not I thought it was 1 yard, 1 catch. I thought it was 1 catch for 1 yard.

I don't think he's happy that he received that little amount of targets.

Well, of

course. I think the does he have a streak going on? That that if he is he our hypothetical No.

He doesn't have a baseball

player with the streak, 10 year

streak.

He doesn't have any kind of streak because he's got plenty of games. 0 catches,

0 yards. Going on.

The 800 game hit streak.

Are they a

hall of famer, that 1?

Yeah. Mhmm. If Odell Beckham is that guy, then I think he wants the 1 yard, 1 reception.

I think he knows. People know. We tell him before a game he knows he's 3rd string. He knows how many targets he's going to get. Do you think he do you think Odell Beckham goes into the game thinking I'm the number 1 target?

No. I think this has sadly been, like, the reality for the last few years for him.

But Stugats, is in the other room. I'm being told that he's in the other room now.

Hey, Dano. And he's ready

to go with Genesis and he had oh, wait a minute. He's getting the good stuff. Oh. That's not the that's not the stuff that hurts. That's the stuff that feels good right there.

No. The Theragun on the kidney is a

Yeah.

It hurts.

It's a bad spot.

Mhmm. The Theragun? Who

On the kidney.

That's not his kidney.

The Theragun feels good. The Theragun the the Theragun

Not in the kidneys, Dan.

Oh. 0. When when I'm watching that Dolphin game on Sunday and think Sampson's got this wrong, they don't know how many catches they're gonna have. I'm guessing that John U. Smith thought he was gonna have, like, the last month worth of games, 10 targets in that game.

Then they don't target him all game. And then in overtime, all a sudden, they're thrown 3 times to him, and and, he wouldn't have had any warning whatsoever that they weren't gonna target them all the entire game. And then in overtime, because Jason Sanders manages to make the 16th consecutive kick of his career, longest active streak in the league, then all of a sudden he gets a chance at some catches. Otherwise, John Johnu Smith was leaving the the stadium with 0 catches for 0 yards. 0 targets too.

I think the players are in communication a little more than that. And I think when you're in the game, if you're in the play, you know where you are with Tua. You're are you the check down guy? You're gonna get more? Or are you the 3rd option?

You may get fewer. Odell Beckham, you are told prior how

He doesn't think Odell Beckham does not think that he's going into an NFL football game and all he's gonna have is 1 catch for 1 yard.

Do you think Odell's waking up and he thinks he's gonna get 12 targets this week?

Not 12 targets, just not 1 catch for 1 yard. Like, that's not what he's going to the stadium for. If you told him beforehand, this is what it's gonna be. He's gonna say, I don't even wanna play. What's the point of playing?

Dan, what if he had a second catch, but it was for, like, negative 3 yards? Do you think he'd rather have 1 for 1 yard or 2 for minus 2 yards then?

Good question.

Oh, this is a good hypothetical.

It could be incentives since contract for snaps played.

Perhaps. I don't think he's going to meet those though because he hasn't actually played that much. I'm, the the reason I'm actually bringing it up is because of how fleeting stardom can be in that sport. But let's, Any sport, Dan? Yeah.

But no. That 1 in yes. Any sport, but

of podcasting as well.

Yeah. I think football, the average career in football is 3 years.

Same with baseball.

It's, it's Same with podcasting.

Yeah. They don't reach arbitration.

But he he I mean, he's he's still a name. Like, his name still has brand recognition. He may not be a star in terms of, like, stats he's putting up, but, like, do you think he's just gonna be forgotten?

People are gonna remember him

for why.

All I'm all I'm all the the only place I was trying to take you guys is I believe Odell Beckham is embarrassed by seeing his name and that stat line given where he's been in the sport. And and and I, I know that career mortality, you've heard me say some version of this before that confidence is the last thing to go, I'm sorry. That confidence is the last thing to go and the mirror is the last thing to know. That these guys generally keep thinking that they're going to overcome odds again and again. Odell Beckham look, I don't know what he expected his career to be after making what was being described as the greatest catch any of us had ever seen in a Monday night football game with the New York Giants.

But what happened to his career after that is he went to Cleveland with great expectations, was supposed to carry them over with the great expectations, and that entire Cleveland team ends up falling apart. And then he does resurrect himself by going to the Rams, and in that Super Bowl, he was going to be Super Bowl MVP. He the way that game plan was structured, if he had not gotten hurt in that game, Odell Beckham was gonna win the Super Bowl MVP. To have that as your career and go to the dolphins and be fighting at 6 and 7, 1 catch for 1 yard, that seems like it happened pretty fast to me. Maybe it doesn't feel that way to you, but that feels like it evaporated pretty fast.

So his contract is full of incentives. He gets $450,000 if he catches 6 touchdowns. He gets $400,000 if he gets 4 touchdowns. 1,000,000 if he 55 receptions. 400,000 for 36.

800,000 for 45. It seems like he was signing a deal knowing I'm gonna have to prove it to get all of this money, and these are incentives that I mean, he's not gonna reach it. I think he's played 9 games and has 9 receptions at the moment.

I don't think they're purposely holding him down.

No. No. I don't think so either. I think I I think he also came in knowing, like, hey. I'm, like, the 4th option here.

And that's why I don't think he was surprised to have 1 catch for 1 yard. He was not he didn't sign with the Dolphins. It was a really weird deal down here in Miami when he signed as though you were signing the player he was with the Rams before the injury. He's sort of he's done. He's in the, you know, 16th minute of No.

I know the the Will fuller contract with the Dolphins where you come in and cash in at the end of your career. I'm still telling you, and I will move off of this subject in a second, you are underestimating the amount of personal pride that these people have. 1 catch for 1 yard is embarrassing to him. Like, seeing those numbers based on what used to be the threat of that name, I there is no pride in that. And if you have pride as an athlete, those numbers looking at them, you're, like, a little bit ashamed of what your career has become.

How many athletes go out on their career after, like, a 13 reception game with 2 touchdowns?

But also, like, if Odell Beckham goes out and it's like, hey, Odell Beckham is at this club, come, like, see Odell Beckham. You think, like, oh, 1 catch, 1 yard.

I don't think so.

I don't wanna hang out with Odell Beckham today. Like, no 1 knows his stat line. He's Odell Beckham Junior.

Right.

He made the catch.

Who the hell cares about Odell Beckham junior? That catch was the worst thing that ever happened to him and his career, Dan. I mean, what do you care? Odell Beckham junior chose to come to the Dolphins. Tarique Hill is on this team.

Jaylen Waddle is on this team. Jonah Smith is on this team. A. Chan's on this team. The guy who led the NFL NFL in touchdowns can't even sniff the field.

Who cares about Odell Beckham Junior?

It sounds like the Theraguns in your mouth. Oh, really?

Audio. Oh.

It's too exciting. Yes, please.

I mean, I leave for

a minute. You talk about Odell Hotel Beckham. I mean, you really nailed that phrase, that saying there, by the way.

You say nailed

in that position.

It's not my perfect visual. It's hurting my tongue.

Okay. I I need, you to stop making, this, overt sexual

is Genesis is laughing.

He's he's doing the the the the the the the glute is good. Yes.

I like Nick Tortura just watching.

His rage faces are great.

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Don Lebatard. But it's just his titties are sitting on the shelf that is his belly.

Stuttgart. You said titties there. It, like, shocked me a little bit. I wasn't quite prepared for titties.

This is the Don Levatar show with the Stuttgart.

We're trying to get the Turturros. I wanna see if we can get them on because, Yankee fan rage is something that's fun to consume. Roy, give me the useless sound montage, please. All of the football coaches, all of the football players who said, irrelevant things that are immediately forgetful, give it to me. Cliche fest.

You know, he never blinked,

and we gave him opportunities. Just because we're in 1st is 1 thing. To stand 1st is a whole another deal.

The strength of the pack is the pack.

Remind myself of how hard this thing is and and how much of a competitor you gotta be for 4 quarters and go and take it. Nothing's ever given to you. Losing period sucks. And, when you're up in the Q4, all of a sudden it starts to feel like you you have a a losing problem. It's like you have, like, a a gene.

Resilient group. We play for each other. You guys step up when other people are down, and that that's what football is all about. It teaches life lessons. Just gotta build.

Gotta progress. I have to find a way to come together and come in sync as a unit and play complimentary ball. We got our ass kicked today, and, there's no way around it. We got our butts kicked. That's all the way to say it.

Big part of it is my my appreciation for them. You know, they they work the right way. The process is is intact. The guys are are working hard during the week. Walk throughs, meetings, the whole thing.

Detail's high. Energy's high, execution's high. It's not translating to the field on Sundays. I

thought the guys were ready to play. Trying to put it all together, all 3 phases. I thought we took a step today on special teams.

I went through my reads, helped Travis release it, like, the corner and then the halfback and a couple other guys. And then as I went to ready to run, I just saw 87 just sitting right there in the middle of the field open, so I just fired it to him.

You you never go broke take taking a profit.

We didn't make enough plays today, and and so that's on us as an offense to to take a look at it, watch the film, be critical about ourselves, especially in the first half and and see what what what went wrong, where we can improve, and what we can do moving forward.

I mean, do you see Josh Allen as a as an alien?

This is football. Like, we're we're all grown men.

It's an opportunity for the world to see that we're gonna keep fighting, you know, and this is who we are. And when the Bengals walk on the field, you know, you're gonna get our best shot.

Appreciative of the efforts, in game. It didn't start off the way we would like in terms of fluidity. We weren't converting 3rd downs there early on, but the guys found their traction. I appreciate the defense providing some short fields and some splash.

Reminded of, sir Andrew Barton. Find out my men, sir Andrew said, I'm a little wounded but not slain. I'll lay down and bleed a while, and we'll rise and fight again.

Yes. Jim Harbaugh nailing the dismount. I've got some more useless sound, for you from basketball. Bonus. Here is Sacramento Kings coach, Mike Brown being fully useless 26 times.

We just need to be methodical by stacking or playing the right way, possession after possession after possession after possession after possession After possession. After possession. After possession. After possession. After possession.

After possession. After possession. After possession. After possession. After possession.

After possession. After possession, after possession, after possession, after possession, after possession, after possession, after possession, after possession, after possession. You guys got what I'm saying. Right?

No. I, I 1

more time.

Thought it was AI. I thought it was I didn't believe that that was a real it? That I didn't I didn't believe that that was a real thing that had happened. I'm figuring that if you're gonna go all in on that, why stop? Like, what 6 times.

Why why stop it? Why stop it once you're doing it? They walk out? Yeah. Just keep doing it until the press conference ends.

Like, stand up. Keep doing it as you walk out of the room. Just end the press conference that way.

This is the kind of thing that I was known for doing as a child. My parents always tell me this story. 1 time we were on a road trip, and I kept repeating the same song from, like, summer camp and singing it to my sister in the back seat. And my parents in the front seat were, like, just ignore her. She's gonna shut up if you ignore her.

Don't yell at her. She'll keep doing it. And I said, oh, you wanna bet? So then I sang the song all the way from, like, the Kentucky Ohio border to, like, Tennessee for, like, 45 minutes. And my parents and my sister wanted to murder me.

A singing tribute to your stubbornness, basically.

Right? I was like, I bet I can outlast you with my annoyingness. Yes. There's no change. Wildest expectations.

And, yeah,

I have nothing has changed since then. I'm still super, super annoying and stubborn.

Speaking of which, let's go out to Jeremy. Nothing more fun than hearing Jeremy enjoy being right. Jeremy is doing the, the wicked green witch of the west as part of his, punishments here, I'm assuming. I don't even know what punishment. It's not a punishment.

Not a punishment. For Wednesday.

I think he even picks teams. I think he just likes dressing up. The Bills lost.

He does. That's true. So what are you doing a victory lap about? What did you get right?

I got right what was gonna happen with the UCF Knights, Dan. And before we get to that victory lap, I know Roy has some info on this Peloton victory lap.

Yes, this victory lap is brought to you by Peloton. Find your push, find your power with Peloton.

So Dan, yes, I am I am dressed as Elphaba from Wicked and if you were wondering, yes, everything, and I mean everything, everything is green. But UCF, nobody was wondering. Remember when I went up to the UCF,

Colorado game? Nobody was thinking about

your day here. You guys didn't pay me to go up but I went up anyway and made a bunch of content.

Mhmm.

And at the end of that content I was really upset that UCF had lost the game. And I was the first person on the fire gust train. But I also said something else that the video team has prepared. I don't know if I'm allowed to say this because I'm on the sideline, but fire Gus. Bring back Scott Frost.

Bring back. They're all saying it with me. Bring show them. Bring back Scott Frost. So what eventually happens?

That was September 28th. What happens now in mid December? Well, we're here. And what did UCF do? Listen to me and bring back Scott Frost as the head coach.

I also tweeted on October 1st that their offensive offensive coordinator under Scott Farrash would be Mackenzie Milton. And, hey, what happened yesterday? Mackenzie Milton gets hired as the quarterback coach for UCF. Dan, UCF is back, and they're back because they listened to me. I am the biggest voice in sports media representing UCF, which doesn't be much.

I know that. But my opinions, my beliefs have now been access

It's a long victory. That's

what it's supposed to be, though.

And push.

He's he's supposed to

be tired. The UCF administration, Terry Mahajer, listened to everything I had to say, and he knows that I more than anyone can defy gravity.

Alright. Congratulations, Jeremy. Not surprising that this entire show would be a tribute in some ways to your narcissism. I thought that Pablo Torre was the most narcissistic person that we have here at the network. But, Billy, you've seen how everything that's been Jeremy related today has been an inception of his narcissism where it's just Jeremy throwing it to sound of Jeremy or Jeremy throwing it to the face of Jeremy or Jeremy being self involved about Jeremy.

Today has been a picture of Jeremy when his teeth was taken out. We showed that to a guest, then we saw a video of him predicting a coach would get fired, a tweet of himself, and then he sang a song.

That sounds like the entirety of the Jeremy period. And he did. And and all of a sudden, he has a green penis, which was strange.

He didn't talk about the heat, so it was a win.

Yes. A win for

everybody. Actually.

Yes. We will at the whiteboards.

We all will take

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The Libertad.

I had Rachel and Emma both home, and I was in a fight with Rachel. And I said, if you roll your eyes 1 more time, there's gonna be a problem, a big problem. And she said, really? What are you gonna do?

Stu Guts. Oh, goddamn. Damn. I mean, that's

where she I didn't have an answer.

This is the Don Levittar show with the Stu gods.

Ken Rogers. The gambler, this is not Kenny Rogers. Gotta know when to hold up. No. No.

I need to introduce the guest. Nobody knows why I mentioned Ken Rogers. Yeah. Okay. You just wanted to get to your gambling jokes so you could leave I wanted to talk to Ken Rogers.

Football. Okay. You'd you're leaving. You don't want No

1 to

walk away, Dano. No 1 to fold them. Yes. Thank you for your helps to gods. Appreciate all your good work on the show.

Hi, Ken.

God bless football Monday through Friday. Can I inter introduce Ken Rogers, not Kenny Rogers, so I can tell the audience who the hell he is instead of you just singing a song by Kenny Rogers? He's an NFL films producer and director. He's had, nearly 20 years of hard knocks under his belt. 4 teams are being followed for the first time.

Hard knocks is streaming on Max, and we're basically just doing this for Jessica because she's the 1 around here who is mainlining all of the hard knocks. And 1 of the reasons I wanna talk to Ken Rogers is because, Ken, if we were to go through all of the footage that we're not allowed by the NFL or the teams, how great would this show really be beyond how great it already is? It's plenty great the way it is, but if you could put everything on air that you guys have that's in the vault of all the secrets, how great would that show be?

I think you would love it. I think the the general fan would be a little bored. I think the people overrate how exciting a a facility is, whether it's training camp or even in season. It's a lot of looking at a board, looking at the plays, going over another play, going over yet another scenario. If you love the intricacies of football, you might love it more than than another person.

As far as the the the the real juicy stuff, a lot of that makes the show. These guys are pretty serious, especially in season. You know, joking around in training camp is 1 thing, but in season, all 4 of these camps, you you can tell that the division is on the line or their pride is on the line, jobs are on the line. It's pretty serious there. So you might get a lot of insight, but it it you have to really love football to to to love it, the, bonus material.

Do the owners ask for final edit, final cut? How much power do you give them?

No. I mean, this is a collaboration always, so they know what's in the show, and we're very careful to not give away competitive secrets. So there's a lot of that sort of discussion of that play that you heard, we we can't show that, especially in division. We can't hear that play call because we're going to use it. That being said, the sensitive stuff is is pretty is pretty unremarkable when it comes to the personality stuff.

You see the best stuff. Owners don't really get involved. I'm not sure that, any any of them have necessarily watched the show beforehand even in in, in in season. I think they sort of watch with everybody else. It's definitely a football driven show, a personality driven show.

It's a, it's a workplace drama.

Have you ever had somebody from any team complain about what they seen on the show and had they take it out the show?

No. Sometimes afterwards, we all regret things. I'll tell you the best example, and it's and it's so famous is Rex Ryan's gotta go get a a a snack. Right? So we got that and we put it on and we were like, this is this is great because he's he's so vehement.

And it was taken out of context by a lot of people then that, Rex is overweight. Rex wants to go get a cookie. Let's go get a a snack. Actually, it was just next on their schedule, and people forget, like, that's what happens on a team is you have a team meeting, and then literally on the schedule, it says snack. So I think they regretted, like, boy, that became a big thing.

There's a lot of things that become memeable that weren't intended that way, and there's nothing you can do and go back. And I know what you're gonna probably ask. You're probably gonna say, you know, well, have teams regretted it? Not many teams after they're on have ever expressed 1 iota of, boy, we wish we didn't do that. I think they realized that it's it's good for them and for their fan base.

Well, I have a bunch of questions. But first, I'm a Steelers fan. And I I get the sense that Mike Tomlin has put on this front that he doesn't want the cameras to be there. But then when I'm watching the show, I'm like, I think he kinda secretly really loves this. What is your sense from working with him on, the Steelers stuff?

I think he knows how to send a message, and I think he's, embracing the message without letting it disrupt the team. And that's what the very best coaches on hard knocks have done. He's not about to act differently. He's not he's not gonna be quiet in a meeting because our camera's there. He's not gonna all of a sudden let his team see him clam up or play to the cameras more.

He's going to be himself. So he's he's been a great example of being himself, allowing it to exist, and not letting it distract. I think the more you worry about what am I doing on television, the the worse it would get. And luckily, after a day or 2, everyone in the organization is kinda relaxed and go, oh, I I get it. It's not that big of a deal.

Yeah. And now he's just being himself. My favorite part of the in season hard knocks has been all of the archival footage that NFL films has. And, like, 15 years ago, my boyfriend was actually an intern at NFL films and used to log all the footage. So I know there's, like, just

So he knows all the secrets.

Oh, yeah. He knows that he he wears his NFL films stuff everywhere and gets compliments on it everywhere he wears it. And I will be stealing that hat 1 day, Lee. But anyways, I love all of the archival, you know, AFC North divisional footage because there's so many iconic moments from those rivalries. So how much fun was it going back and putting together all the sort of archival montages that are in each episode?

Yeah. You really realize the the depth of history, and we haven't even gotten into the Paul Browns of it and all. But I think the best example was really this week when we sort of rediscovered, some of us knew, but rediscovered that the Steelers logo comes from Cleveland. And it was like, wow, like, there's a lot of history here and and I bet a large percentage of Pittsburgh fans heard that and said, wait, what? Our logo came from Cleveland?

Like, we to heck with that. I I I I'm amazed at how much history there is between these teams. Of course, the the North the AFC North isn't that old, but the old division that they played in, it's just been so much hatred, and I think it's because of the proximity. And what you see in this show is when they play each other, holy cow, it's up to another level. And that's where we've sort of created these cinematic, game openings when they play each other.

It's just at another, another step up in intensity for everybody on on both teams.

There's this thing called Marvel fatigue. The MCU plays a lot of movies every year, and people are getting tired of watching them. There have been a lot of episodes of, Hard Knocks. Are you afraid of Hard Knocks fatigue?

I'm I used to be. I used to be I used to say, Steve Sable would say it too. Well, you know, we gotta be reaching the end here. Right? Like, there's there's a bubble.

The the great thing is that every year, every team is different. And although the basic structure of a training camp or an off season or, an in season is kinda the same. Everyone's situation is so different. We're so blessed as storytellers in the NFL that when when 1 person retires, when Tom Brady retires and we can no longer tell his story on a day to day basis, oh, you know, here comes Joe Burrow or and, oh, well, week 7, what are we gonna do? No.

Here comes Jameis Winston. Like, the revolving storylines are so great that I don't think we'll ever get bored of hard knocks.

All I keep thinking about is the sack exchange and Mark Gastineau going out

I knew that was gonna come up. I knew it.

How was I not gonna ask about dealing with Gastineau? If he like, does he have something against you? Is he coming back at you 10 years after sex?

What's the backstory? What's the back you're you guys know what you're talking about. The audience might not know what you're talking about with Gastineau.

Mark Gastineau, former member of the sack Exchange New York Jets, has a little beef with Brett Favre from decades ago. Our esteemed guest directed a movie called The SAC Exchange.

Nobody knows that. You know that. He knows that. You have not told anybody that he's directed 6 30 for 30 films. He's directed Belichick and Save and Sorry.

The Art of Coaching for HBO. You've, you did Bill Belichick of Football Life, dozens of film, projects. Now ask the question, David.

You've completely ruined it, but here we go. Hey, Ken. Just out of curiosity, are you scared of Mark Gastineau given your resume?

Mark is a, great guy who has a lot of passion, about how he feels. So yeah, I think if I were in a room with him, I could both be charmed and and find him very empathetic, which I do. And I could also fear that he might kick my butt because he's able to kick anybody's butt still. The New York sack exchange film that that that airs Friday, you know, was quite an experience to to walk walk in, side by side with Mark Acenow. I know the the Brett Favre clip came out yesterday, but there's so much more to the story and these 4 guys that, yeah, I'm I haven't gotten a call yet from mister Gasineau.

But if I do it, I might conveniently, you know, put my phone down.

A couple of fill in the bank, blank questions as quick as you can go. The coach who it the coach who has wanted you around least is blank. Oh, jeez.

I don't have an answer to that.

Not Mike Tomlin?

No.

None of them really want you around. Right?

Well, yeah. I mean, I I think here's the thing with coaches, they this isn't a quick answer, but the coaches want everything to just stay the same every day. So, yeah, they don't want any change. So why why don't I say everybody? Every coach does.

The the most interesting story I think we've told in our history is blank, the team.

The 2001 New England Patriots.

The most surprised I have been by an individual success story was blank.

Ryan Leaf and his recovery.

The most heartbroken I've been by something that we have filmed is blank.

Every player that gets cut on hard knocks.

Oh, sweet.

Why do you do it that way?

Why do you what? Players get cut. Okay.

You can't be emotional about it when you're making movies, when you're doing nobody. Oh, smart list.

Come on.

Come on.

Time, Ken. Yeah.

I mean, I don't

see country

ballads in

the shower, you know. In the in the shower, I sing country ballads, sad and cry after after these things.

Ken, thank you for being on with us. We appreciate the insight and appreciate the work, sir.

Alright. Thanks for having me.

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