Transcript of Hour 1: Blowed Out (feat. Jeff Pearlman and Leon Cote)

Now is a good time to remember where tequila's story truly began. In 1795, Cuervo invented tequila. Cuervo. What are you doing here? Cuervo.

Anytime someone says Cuervo, I show up.

Well, I do know that to be true, but even during an ad, reads like... Cuervo. I think you could lay out, especially for one of our great partners.

Sweet, delicious Cuervo.

Since then, Cuervo has stayed true to its roots. The same family, the same land, the same passion. Cuervo. So enjoy the tequila that started it all. Cuervo. Cuervo. The tequila that invented tequila. Proximo. Cuervo. Com. Please drink responsibly. Cuervo. This is the Dan Levatore Show with the Stugats podcast.

Jeff Perlman is Always exhaustive. When he does his bookwriting, he talks to tons and tons of people, and I don't know if he's ever talked to more. Then you will find his new book, Only God Can Judge me: The Many Lives of Tupac Shakur. I also enjoy his work in around all things sports. Check out his YouTube offerings. He's a great storyteller. I want to talk to him a little bit about sports before we get into his book. How nostalgic were you last night on the basketball, NBA on NBC, and more specifically, were you expecting anything from Michael Jordan other than a stiff one-hour interview that they will cut up all season because an hour of the GOAT's time is something that you will just sprinkle over this and many other seasons, I suppose.

How dare you?

How dare you speak of him that way? Wait, Dan, don't you think we've learned through years and years and decades and decades that legends, it just doesn't work before it might? It just doesn't work. Never, ever, ever with almost with rare exception, works. Wait, do you disagree? I actually thought from the beginning, Michael Jordan, this can't possibly work.

No, let me think for a second. Who has been the greatest of the athletes that has actually transitioned into broadcasting?

Who was excellent- Athletes or coaches. Nick Saban is doing a bang-up job without the gift of charisma. Gretzky's fine with hockey.

No, he's- He was bad at first.

He's done a lot better. Michael Jordan has been awesome so far.

This Jordan thing has been cool.

Insights into excellence. There were very few of them. There was just a story about making a free throw.

Bill Simmons was like, I don't care what you call it. I don't care that he's not talking about the game. This was clearly taped months ago. I'm good.

Just keep talking. Okay, so he can be loving him that way, and I could love it slightly less as somebody who wants broadcasters to be good at broadcasting. He is.

He's not a broadcaster. What are you talking about? He's talking. Mike Torrijos is a broadcaster.

He's not a broadcaster.

He's not a broadcaster. He's not there to be the goat, Dan. He has to live up to this image that the people have built up to Bill Ryder and his whole family.

Exactly right. Such a dumb shit.

Damn. I remember when I was a kid, and they used to have Monday Night Football. I used to always cycle in former athletes to be the people on Monday Night Football. Do you guys remember when Emmet Smith had a season on Monday Night Football? Oh, yes. That might be.

He got blown up. The Rice of Passage. Who could forget?

He got blown out.

That was not good. What can you do? It's It's not meant to be. Great athletes are so great, they can't talk about what they're great about. It's almost like the disease of it all.

Did you get nostalgic last night at all?

No. Honest to God, just being totally honest, I'd mainly been focused on promoting this book because it came out yesterday, so I wasn't as tuned in as I wanted to be. I was just checking on my phone.

Jeff, you're a great writer. I've read many of your sports books. What led you to want to do a book about Tupac as far away from sports as possible?

This is going to sound weird. When When I was a kid, Garth Brooks had a rock album. I'm not even a Garth Brooks fan, but he did a rock album called The Greatest Hits of Christopher Gaines. It was terrible, and everyone killed it. It wasn't terrible, but everyone killed him for it. I always admired the fact that he tried something way outside the box. I've always thought about that, just trying things. I love Tupac. I've always been fascinated by Tupac. I feel like there hasn't been a great, great Tupac book, and I just decided if no one else is going to write it, why not a sports writer? So I just gave it a shot.

The name of the book is Only God Can Judge me, the Many Lives of Tupac's record. Before we get to that, let's just play the montage that Jeff Perlman is talking about when he remembers that Emmet Smith said that someone got blown out.

Blowed out.

Well, boom, when you talk about Humble pie, you hear the patrons promote Humble pie, and they have promoted Humble pie all year long.

A slice of that Humble pie is having the ability to have a short term memory, which means, don't worry about the game we just won or the team that we just blew out or blown out.

Let's think about what we need to do going forward. And they had He's blown out. All he has done is led his team to nine road wins. He has his team in a position right now. If they win today, they can possibly go into the Super Bowl and make an appearance there. Frank, go ahead.

Thirteen carries now, 13 carries for 72 yards.

Now, the reason why he didn't get any more is because you didn't get enough first down.

It is a L cool JJ shot.

That's what you were said about help back. That's a safety.

I tell you what, they better get their minds right because they will be on the cover of an Insane magazine.

This inconsistency play going up against a team like New England will get you completely blown out. The Rams are not very good. Eli Manning has been given the rights of passage. The Patri's defense was one of the weakest links of the team. But what happened the night, the strength of the Patri's team got debattled.

Blow it out.

You never want to be on the cover of Insane magazine.

It got debattled.

I love Insane magazine. Long-time subscriber. Jeff should write a book about L Cool JJ.

When you go into Tupac's life, what are you expecting, Jeff, and how were you surprised in ways that the reader might be surprised by?

Wait, Dan, I just have to say because you played that clip. Around the time Emmett Smith was on Monday Night Football, I appeared with him on an ESPN segment because I had a book come out about the '90s Cowboys. And he actually lit into me about the book. And this was in the middle of him doing Monday Night Football. I had so much ammunition that I could have pulled out that I actually was running through my head. I just said, Okay. I held back. I want to thank you guys, all of you, one and all, for playing that. I know you didn't do it on my behalf, but that was a beautiful moment for me and my family.

You walked away from the exchange from an angry Emmet Smith, and you've been haunted all these years later that you weren't able to say the things you meant to as comebacks?

I'm just going to tell you that promoting a book is very stressful, and that may have been the salt bath that I needed right there. So thank you for taking me to the spa and giving me that.

Why is it stressful if you've poured so much work into this. You're getting all the applause. You're getting to talk with great facility about subject matter that you know better than just about anybody. Why is it stressful?

Number one, you don't know if the book is going to sell. Number two, to be honest with you, it is way outside my comfort zone as far as... I know how to promote a sportsbook. I know how to come on the different sports, but I don't have inroads in hip hop. I don't have inroads in rap. There are a lot of hip hop outlets, podcasts, et cetera, that you need to promote a book on. It's a lot harder than promoting a sportsbook for me. I'm just being honest. It's a lot harder than promoting a sportsbook.

Well, I heard you the other day on a hip hop station, and I don't know how much resistance you're being met with when you write a warts and all Tupac book and you're walking into a lot of Black environments as somebody who's the white guy.

The term is a culture vulture. That's where you get a lot of, Oh, here comes a culture, a lot. Then you just have to show your knowledge on the subject, which I've really been trying to do, and show how much work you put in. Why is a white guy writing this book? I understand actually that question. I think it's a fair question. But I think you have to show your research and show, Look, I wrote this book because I wanted someone to write a great, great, great deep dive, look into his life, go to Marind City, knock on his apartment door, go to Baltimore, knock on the door of his row house, meet all his neighbors, interview all his old classmates, that book. So I've been fighting, and I think it's been going okay.

Jeff, on that note, I saw a video you posted. I don't know when you posted. I saw it last though, where you talked about getting death threats about this. And beyond just talking about that side of it, you also talked about the role of journalism, actual journalism, doing what you just described, going to his childhood home in Baltimore, going to his childhood home in Moraine City. Right now, I've been working with Pablo Toro on this whole Quai Leonard aspiration story. And even my friends don't understand. There's a difference between, Hey, this is happening. Now we're all opining, which what sports journalism is now today, for the most part for the consumer, versus what you're doing, what Pablo is doing, which is, No, I'm finding out stuff that nobody would have found out for, if not for my work. How do you get that message across to people without sounding egotistical, I guess?

It's a great question. It's not even a matter of ego. I swear to God, it's a matter of everyone digests things now in 20-second clips. So everything you say is cut down to 20-second clips, thrown on Instagram, TikTok, whatever your choice. And there's no elaboration, and nobody wants elaboration. So they may see some little tiny clip of me saying something about Tupac. Tupac wasn't very good at fighting. Let's say that's a clip, right? And, whoa, how could you possibly say that about Tupac? How can you say that about PAC? But you don't hear the lead up who I talk to or the lead down who I know. And that stuff is like, I've never promoted a book in this world, actually, where everything is digested in small quantities. I think Pablo is going, Oh, you guys are going through that, too. Who is this guy? How could he be saying this? Blah, blah, blah. All you got is a 20 seconds. You don't have the elaboration. It makes it incredibly frustrating.

Oh, but you say it's frustrating, but you're great at journalistic TikToks. You have a huge following because on the news of the day, you are very good speaking in these sound bites.

True. But my videos are actually three, four, five minutes, a lot of them, six minutes, which sounds short, but today is an eternity. So the thing I found on TikTok is actually telling stories resonates the same way you tell stories. But a lot of people, I'm just saying we live in a culture where the attention span is eight seconds and they're on. I know you guys see this. It just can be very frustrating.

Jeff, for huge Tupac fans, what will they be surprised, let's say, to learn from your book?

And what were you surprised by? To get back to the original question that made you What did you think of Emmett Smith and all the things you could have said to him back when he was on Monday for football?

I sat down with his sister, Setsua, in New Orleans, and she doesn't do many, almost any interviews. And she told me something early on. She said, I went to therapy years ago. The first thing I told my therapist, the first thing I told my therapist is we had rats running along our floorboards. She was talking about when they grew up in Baltimore and the poverty of Baltimore. The poverty and the pain that Tupac went through. I always knew thug life Tupac, I get around Tupac. Growing up without a father, growing up in deep, deep, deep poverty, growing up with a mother who is a crack addict, the pain that informs his music explains everything about him as an artist is the pain And I just think people don't understand the trauma that he went through. And I just dove deep into his trauma. I hung out with the crack dealers in Marind City who taught him about life beyond life. It was just a real eye-opening experience for me.

I think you told us last time, but you can tell us again, how many people did you talk to for this book?

A official total of 652.

So it's more than you've ever done for a book, even though all of your books are exhaustive in this regard. Are they not?

I mean, I try. I think I think one book, I did talk to 704 people, so it wasn't the personal record, but it's number two.

Was there anyone that you tried to get a hold of that you couldn't?

Yeah. What interesting was I was in... Jada Pinker went to high school at Tupac. He loved her, right?

Or she claimed names that he loved her.

I think she exaggerates that point a little bit, but he liked her. She was doing a book event at the Miami Book Festival. This is a true weird story. I thought, All right, I'm going to go to this event and maybe I'll get her. I go to the event, and this is after the Will Smith whole thing with the slap. It's me about 500 women and Jada Pinket on the stage speaking largely about how to have a good marriage. She literally has gone through all this stuff. All the women there are like, You preach, sister. You say, Yeah, standing ovations. I'm looking around like, What alternative reality have I entered? Where Jada Pinket is telling everyone about how to have this great marriage, and they're all eating it up. It was a very weird commentary on celebrity in America. It was strange.

But you didn't get her?

I did not get her. I read her book. I talked to friends. I read past interviews. I They went to Baltimore School of the Arts together. She was not well liked at Baltimore School for the Arts. Actually, I interviewed about 50, 60 students who went there with both of them.

It's called Preaching to the Choir, by the way, with that experience that you envisioned there. Jeff, question for you about an I've never been a legend that I've heard for years, but I hope you can confirm for us.

He did not get in a fight with Michael Jackson.

No, I wanted it to be real.

Not true. Did not get in a fight with Michael Jackson. I am sorry. I will say this, among other things. He dated Madonna, wrote her a a breakup letter from prison, and she was basically like... He dated Lisa Lisa from Lisa Lisa and called to him. Madonna did in fact... I mean, not Madonna. Janna Jackson did in fact demand that she wouldn't do a kissing scene with him unless he got an HIV test in poetic justice. I talked to the production assistant who went in and had to tell him that Janet insists you get a AIDS test, and his response was, F her, F you. They wound up doing the scene anyway, but he never got the AIDS test. There's some other ones for you.

All right, well, let's do this off the cuff here. Only God can judge me the many lives of Tupac Shakur. Let's have you sell the book by giving us what you believe to be in order the top five best facts you have in the book, because you just told a couple of very good stories there. So let's go 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and I'm putting you on the spot. I know this is impossible. You're a quick thinker, and you've got a ton to choose from. So choose your five, and I'm done filibustering now. Number 5, Jeff Perlman.

This is in no order, though. Okay, I found the- That's not what Dan wanted. I know.

He's going to have to adjust, Dan. Number 5. He's telling them to give away the most important parts of the book, and now he wants them to rank them two on the fly after doing that to Zaz. I know the audience heard it. I heard it, too. Zaz asked a question, and he was like, that question, my question now. That's right.

I may as well go, myself.

All right, Smirnov. Official vodka of the NFL, the world's number one vodka. Here's the deal. Game day is everything. The noise, the rituals, the passion, the dip, the wings, the dip again. Smirnov belongs in that mix because if you're tailgating or hosting or just sitting there checking your fantasy lineup every 30 seconds, We need Smirnov. Otherwise, it's not a real game day. They've been doing this since 1864, which is, I don't even want to do the math. A long time. They're award-winning. They make cocktails super easy, and they're all about bringing fans together. So, yeah, we do game days. That's their thing. And if you're over 21, you should, too. Grab a bottle of Smirnov at your local retailer and head to smirnov. Com to find recipes of delicious cocktails perfect for game day. Please drink responsibly. Smirnov, number 21 Vodka. Distilled from Grain. 40% alcohol by volume. The Smirnoff Company, New York, New York. Please do not share with anyone under legal drinking age. Howdy, listeners. It's Mike Ryan and Chris Cody. Hey, everyone. Hey, Chris. We love hanging out so much. You were at my birthday the other day. You're old. You know what I saw in your hand?

What? A can of Miller light. Whether it's a can, whether it's a bottle, a draft pour of Miller light. The draft pour, you see that beautiful, iconic color right away. The cold. The ice coldness to it. She's so good. Yes, Chris. The ice coldness to it. Whether you're hanging out with me on my birthday because I'm old or you're at a game, that Miller light just makes every special time a Miller time. That's how you make the special time. So making them Miller times. Game day just hits different with Miller Lite in your hand. Hitting different. From jaw-dropping touch downs to fantasy heartbreak, it's a beer that has been there for every moment. Fifty years of great taste, simple ingredients, and that iconic golden color. That coldness, Chris. That icy coldness. That icy coldness. The original light beer since 1975 and still hitting different five decades later. Miller Light, great taste, 96 calories. Go to millerlight. Com/dan to find delivery options near you, or you can pick up some Miller Light pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories and 3. 2 carbs per 12 ounces.

I see coldness. All your favorite NBA players are back. Enjoy DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports bet and partner of the NBA, is the place to bet on NBA stars this season. New customers download the DraftKings Sportsbook app now and use code Dan, that's code D-A-N, to bet five bucks and get three months of NBA League pass, plus get in bonus bets if your bet wins. In partnership with DraftKings, the crown is yours. Gambleing problem? Call 1-800 Gambler. In New York, call 877-8 Hope & Why or text Hope & Why 467-369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg. Org. Please play responsibly.

On behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas, pass through a per-wager tax may apply in Illinois.

21 and over. Agent eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Restrictions apply. Bet must win to receive bonus bets which expire in seven days. Minimum odds required. Nba League Pass auto renews until canceled.

Additional terms at dkng.

Co/audio. Limited time offer. Don Levatard.

John, can you rate my Al Pacino from that billiard scene in Carlito's way, if I do it for you?

I think it's pretty good.

Yeah.

Stugatz. You think you're Big Tom?

Or you're going to die. Big Tom.

That is on my infamous scale of 1-10, that's a 7.

6.

Solid.

Good job, Dan.

Good job. That's a Sui nominate right there. That's really good. This is the Dan Levatard show with the Stugats.

All right, I'm going to do five. I'm going to do it in order. Damn it. There you go. Okay. Number five. I found the EMT, he'd never been interviewed before, who got to Tupac when he was shot at Quad Studio. There's always been rumors that Tupac shot himself in the ball because one of his shots... When he got three shots, one in the head, one in the hand, one in the testicles. There are always rumors he shot himself in the testicles. I found the EMT. He lived in Maine. He'd never been interviewed before. He was surprised no one had ever interviewed him before. He confirmed to me there was no entrance wound through his pants or underwear when he shot himself, meaning he had to have had the gun in his waistband and shot his own testicle.

That's number five. Tupac shot his own testicle as number five.

Faith had twins. I probably I have two pucks.

Holy shit. Number four.

All right. Number four is, this is the fact, this is a good reporting fine. I hope that counts. Everyone told me he had a girlfriend in high school. You need to talk to Mary, but Mary doesn't talk to anyone, but you need to talk to Mary. I tracked down Mary. Mary was his high school girlfriend. She was a ballerina. She now lives in the middle of nowhere in Nebraska. First, she's like, I don't really want to talk. Then she said, You know what? I'll talk to you. I like what you're doing. She said, If you come out to Nebraska, you might want to see this. I don't know if this interests you, but my mom found about 150 love letters that Tupac wrote me under the bed in a folder that I hadn't seen in 30 years. If you come out to Nebraska, I would let you read all the letters. I flew out to Center City, Nebraska the next day, met her at a deli, and read through 150 love letters, breakup letters, pain letters, joy letters that this woman had written Tupac when she was a 15-year-old in love with him. The letters were amazing, beautiful, heartbroken, I hate my mom, I love my mom, Mary, I want to marry you.

Let's get married. Let's have kids. Let's have sex. It was absolutely insane.

Was any part of you like... It's Nebraska, though. Can you just send me a PDF? Just take me a photo.

I went to a deli in Nebraska. I met her there. They microwave the bagels.

Oh, no.

Number three.

I thought number three could be they microwave the bagels.

That was number three. Number two. That could be number one. No, I got one, I swear.

All right.

Tupac dies in Las Vegas. The family, Shugnight, is there at the hospital And they give Shugnight one responsibility. It is to get the ashes from Vegas to the family home in Los Vegas, in Los Angeles. Two days later, a two-day FedEx man shows up package, shows up at the door in a cardboard box, a FedEx cardboard box, and inside the cardboard box are Tupac's ashes. So that was his big way, like a classy way. Two-day FedEx opens the box. The ashes are in the box.

To be fair to Shugnight, have you guys seen what FedEx First overnight cost? That's a lot of money.

Is it a lot of money?

These guys are priced out.

Especially in the '90s. Strong cardboard, too.

Number two.

All right, number two. I was in Lumberton, North Carolina. Everyone knows that Tupac's ashes were spread off at sea in Malibu, or most people do. I'm in Lumberton, North Carolina. Tupac's mother, Fennie Shikur, had a home in Lumberton, North Carolina that she built years later after Tupac died. No one's there anymore. It's been an abandoned lot for nine years. I got a tour of the lot by the caretaker, and he said to me, Do you want to see where Tupac is buried? And I said, What do you mean? He goes, Do you want to see Tupac's grave? And I'm like, What do you mean? He's like, Just come with me. Before she died, Fennie Shikur took her the remaining Tupac ashes bury them, has a tombstone up. So if you go to an abandoned lot in Lumberton, North Carolina, you can see the grave of Tupac Shicore. I don't think anyone knows it's there.

There's one better than that. So this is a good list he's put together. Journalism, folks. Everything What this guy does is good. I tell you that Jeff Perlman, the book is Only God Can Judge me, the Many Lives of Tupac Shakur. Number one, the number one best fact that Perlman unearthed in talking to more than 600 people.

All right, I'm going to have to tell the very abridged version of this, but there's a song. Do you guys know the song, Some of you, Brenda's Got a Baby by Tupac? Yes. Okay. Brenda's Got a Baby. Tupac was filming the movie Juice, and he's reading the New York Daily news outside his trailer in New York City. And there's an article called Cries in the Night about a 12-year-old girl who was raped by a cousin, delivered the baby on the bathroom floor, threw her baby down a trash heap. Tupac reads that article, goes into his trailer, writes the song, Brenda's Got a Baby, that becomes Tupac's first really well-known song. I thought it would be amazing to try and find the baby who was throwing down the trash heap. I work with a genealogist who called me one day and said, I think I have a number. I reach out to this guy crudely via text. His name is Davon Hodge. I go to Las Vegas, we sit down. He, in fact, was a baby who was thrown down the trash heap, and Brenda's got a baby. After he was thrown down, he was adopted by a family in Las Vegas.

I saw him in Vegas. His parents had died recently, so we did an ancestry. Com search, and they all came back to this public housing unit in Brooklyn, New York. He has this grand reunion with his family. They show him the place where he was thrown down the trash heep. They're like, Oh, they said, Do you know Tupac? He's like, Of course. They're like, Do you like Tupac? I love Tupac. We think you're the baby from Brenda's Got A Baby. His family tells him this. Sheesh. It's this amazing moment. Wait, it gets crazier. I say to my genealogist, it would be amazing. My genealogist is named Michelle She's amazing. It'd be awesome if we could find the mother. She's like, Well, that might be hard, blah, blah, blah. She gets a number one day. She calls this woman. She says, By any chance, is this Jeanette? Who's this? My name is Michelle. I'm working with the writer Jeff Perlman about a book on Tupac Shakur. By any chance, did you have a baby when you were 12 years old? She starts screaming, Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Do you know where my baby is?

Do you know where my baby is? She's screaming and crying. Michelle says, Yeah, we do. We found him. She goes, Oh, my God, oh, my God. I need to get home. I need to get home to Newark. I live in Newark. Well, where are you now? I'm at a concert. What concert? I'm going to see the Red Hot Chili Peppers tonight. Where are they playing? They're playing in Las Vegas. No. She met her son that night.

No way.

Holy shit.

That is a holy shit story. Look at him, and then he drinks from the mug like Kermit. Look at him because he knows he nailed that story. He knows he nailed that one. It is a good story. Do you have a best theory on how Tupac died?

Yeah, but it's not sexy. You guys saw it. It was Mike Bruce Seldon fight. After the fight, Tupac is in the MGM Grand. He's with a guy named Trayvon Lane, a death throw guy, a mob pyro guy. They see Orlando Anderson there. Orlando Anderson was a Compton crip who had recently gotten in a fight with this guy, Trayvon Lane. Trayvon Lane points it out, says, That's Orlando Anderson. That's the guy who stole my chain. Tupac says, Which guy? That guy right there. Tupac walks up to him, punches him in the face. All the death throw guys pounce. I interviewed Orlando Anderson's closest friend, the guy who was punched, and he said, There's no way Orlando could come back to Compton having gotten beat up publicly by a rapper. Like, by a rapper. He just couldn't. Later that night, Orlando Anderson is driving around, looking, looking, looking for Tupac. Tupac just randomly is driving down the street, wish to night, hollering out at Women, along the Strip in Vegas. Orlando Anderson is like, That's him. That's him right there. And they pull up on him and they shoot him. It's not even a sexy story because everyone wants a grand puffy or biggie conspiracy.

The truth of the matter is he punched the wrong person at the wrong time. And that guy happened to be a member of the Compton Cribs and got a revenge killing and killed him.

You're reporting that as fact, it feels like, and I don't think that... Correct. But that is not fact. I've not heard that reported as fact anywhere.

No, it's been reported a lot of places as fact, and then it's surrounded by a myth. I've talked to investigators. I've talked to people from Death Row. I've talked to people from the Compton Cribs. I talked to Orlando Anderson's best friend. I personally, obviously, when you have a young death and a lot of conspiracy and Vegas and everything, you have a lot of rumors. But if it were not Tupac, if it were a guy named John Smith and another guy named Bob Jones, this would have been reported as fact long ago.

Jeff, thank you for the work. It's always excellent. Only God can judge me now the many lives of Tupac Shakur. Thank you, sir.

Yeah, thanks for having me out. I appreciate, guys.

Writing a book sounds like a lot of work.

Microwave bagels?

He said it is right before he hung up.

I mean, the way that Stugatz wrote a book is the way to write a book, get everyone else to do the work for you. That's the way to do it.

Well, when I wrote The Pride of a Lion, I interviewed three people, so I can relate to what Perlman went through.

One of them was a lion.

That's correct. Well, he said no comment, the lion. So three people in addition to the lion. That's right. Thank you, Billy. Wait a second.

I should hit both of you with loser game show sounds.

It's okay. I'm retiring. Thank you, Billy, after today. This is the World Wide Farewell.

I've got the boost mobile hotline to get to. But before I do that, I thought, and it'll remain, I suppose, that Liam Cohen's most famous moment as a Jacksonville Jags coach was the following: Duval. But after losing 45, 7 to the Rams, this is a close second.

Everything we said we didn't want to do did occur. Well put. Man, seeing a lot of those games. Everything we said we didn't want to do did It did occur. It did.

It really did. He didn't account for the Rams getting that good sleep.

I love the pause. Everything we said we didn't want to do did occur. I like this guy.

It's almost like he considered it for a second. Wait a second. Was it everything?

Everything we said we didn't want to do did occur.

We wanted the Rams to get bad sleep on their flight over.

It did occur.

Don Levatard. You are a fool.

You're nobody.

You are an infant. You have no thick skin.

You have nobody to me.

I literally put together a freaking stage for your toenail. Mike Ryan is nobody to me.

I am your career right now, pal.

Look at me.

No. I am your career. No. Stugats.

You have messed with me, David, and now you're messing with me, and I'm more dangerous, pal. This is the Dan Levatard show with the Stugats. The Boost Mobile Hotline number is 305-486.

Gotts, 305-486-4689.

That's right, Dan.

The Boost Mobile boldest take is presented by Boost Mobile, the newest 5G network in the country.

Three-pointers should not be described as from downtown. Three-pointers should be described as from the suburb.

When I was a kid, I thought that all dogs were boys and all cats were girls. There is way too much time between the end of the late afternoon game and the beginning of Sunday night football.

The fan getting upset about the Panthers being shit on is one of the funniest things ever. It's the Carolina Panthers. Jeremy Tasche is the Chris Woodingham of Pablo Torres.

Last week, Dan said he had two outstanding bets from across the decades. I just want to remind Dan that he has a third outstanding bet that has never been paid. Dan guaranteed that a certain team would not lose or he would eat poop. That team lost and he never ate poop. So Dan, eat poop. I have this scorching Trevor Lawrence take.

Oh, my God, he blows.

He happens to blow. Trevor Lawrence, he happens to blow.

Put it on the poll, please, @Levitation Show. Is there way too much time between the 4: 00 PM, the end of the 4: 00 PM game and Sunday Night Football because you're too addicted. Also put on the poll, is Jeremy Tasche the Chris Wittingham of Pablo Torres?

It's a compliment to Jeremy, honestly. Is it?

How can there be too much time between... You need to shower. You need to get your life in order.

You shower then? Talk to your wife.

You've spent six hours, seven hours in front of the television. You need that time to regroup before the single game that is Sunday night.

Those 45 minutes are literally the get my shit together time.

Or have a quick dinner. Yeah, quick dinner. Guys, your ignorance is showing here. That little window right there is what we call the NASCAR window. That's right. You can watch the end of many NASCAR races during that window and races like Talladega delivered. Guys, we're on the precipice of an amazing Championship 4. We already have Denny Hamlin, who is searching for his first ever Cup Series Championship. We have Chase Frisco, who has been unbelievable this season, was without a team, found a new home, racing the 19, his first Super Speedway victory. Now we have Martinsville this weekend. It's the final chance for two drivers to punch their ticket. Who in that final eight will win the race potentially and automatically get to the final four? Who knows? Will there be a spoiler? Will Kyle Larson find his way into the Championship 4, even though he didn't make the Championship four last year after winning the most races? Guys, this is shaping up to be unbelievable, and it can only be brought to you by NASCAR. That's right, NASCAR. Gearhead is presented by NASCAR. For all the latest insights and story lines to find out when and where to watch, visit com.

The Punch Their Ticket reference is a train reference, correct? When you say someone punches their tickets on a destination. So it is a largely 100-year-old saying when people were most traveling by train, right? There are no other punch tickets. You punch a clock when you're punching in for work, but that's not a ticket. The only time a ticket is punched is when you're taking a train somewhere, correct? It's not even a bus. Jessica's got some disputes, Aslo, with your bus story. Evidently, she doesn't believe some parts of your first-class bus story.

When Anthony Peeler fought Kevin Garnett, he also punched a ticket.

A big ticket.

I would love to hear where this doubt is coming in play.

You're going to in the next hour, we will find out a little more about this accusation. I've heard it whispered around the office. Whenever a lie is told around here, it spreads quickly in terms of accusatory people. You're not a known liar yet. Really?

I always tell the truth, even when I lie. That seat, though, it comes with it. You're not a known liar? Greg.

I'm not talking to me.

Greg, we're just two weeks away from Denny Hamlin racing for his Championship life while he is actively suing Nascar as a team owner for Michael Jordan's team. It's great. I can't wait for the Nascar Commissioner if there is such a person. Is it still the Francis? Francis, yeah. They're super powerful. Yeah. And handing the trophy to the guy suing them, That's going to be lovely.

How many of you had any criticisms of last night's debut of NBC Basketball brought back to life? This is really reaching across generations because the young players who were interviewed have no recollection whatsoever about the nostalgia being triggered for the over 40-year-olds. Chris Cody mentioned that the technical difficulties at the beginning gave him, I felt like, bomb I am honestly surprised that more of these giant endeavors don't have more wrong in them. I already saw that NBC last night was a little bit physically closer to the players, right on them than I'm used to seeing, even though plenty of people are trying to push the boundaries. I assume that the streaming services are going to all push the boundaries on more access. How do we make the game more futuristic? What do we do in order to give you more inside the huddle?

Dan, I'm going to seize upon something you just said there about streaming networks because a lot have been made about, Oh, it costs $650 to watch every single NBA game. This is ridiculous. We had opening night on broadcast television. We haven't had that in a gajillion years. You are getting more NBA basketball if you are a basic cable subscriber, and that's it. You're getting more NBA basketball for free than ever before. That A $650 number, that's if you're getting League Pass. That's if you're getting Amazon Prime. That's if you're getting Peacock. It's if you want NBA every single night. Every single night. But if you're saying, Hey, I can't afford it. All I have is basic cable, you're getting NBC, you're getting ESPN, and you're getting more than enough. And ABC games, you're getting way more than enough. The word streaming should not be in anyone's lexicon. Right now, the NBA is back, and it's back on big-time television. Well, until football comes back.

I want to talk to you guys about how you're viewing some of this stuff. But just my wife, just this last week, decided I have to get control of this cable bill. I want to know what you guys think or know your paying monthly, because I do believe that this is such a sprawling thing now. My wife was alarmed when she realized what we're paying for as we're changing our cable package, and more alarmed when I said, and get Ray's baseball. She didn't understand why I was doing that, but I'm like, make that we have Tampa Bay Ray's baseball.

Can you just get Ray's baseball?

What is the amount? What is the number? Do you guys know? What is the highest number I can give you to shock you? Because I was surprised about what I'm paying a month once I find out There were some overlap. She's trying to get rid of some of the overlap in the places where you get ripped off because you have multiple same subscriptions.

This is what we're going to do, Dan. So first of all, you have obviously regular cable, or whatever the equivalent of regular cable is. You get TBS, TNT, all those channels, right? You got HBO. I know you get HBO. Do you have-I have all the movie channels.

He's got Apple. All the movie channels, all of them.

Even all of them. The movie channels? Everything.

All of them.

You have all the movie channels? Yes.

You're going to be in those movies? You pay so much. You must pay two grand a month.

Tell me what the numbers are for you guys- That's our guess. Before we get to my number. No, it's not that high. It's not that- We're counting Netflix, right?

Four digits? Is it four digits?

It is not. No, it is not four digits.

$850.

No, it's- $1.

We're playing the game poorly.

It's a little more than $500 a month. It doesn't seem as bad.

I got a guy for you. Talk to me. I pay the lowest here out of everybody. I think you're paying more than them. Free 99. You may need to get a second job.

Do you know how much you're paying? Do you have any earthly idea how much you're paying?

No, but my chief of staff does. Whatever my mom tells them, it's probably double.

I'll bet I'm paying what you're paying, and it's making me a little nauseous. Really? Yeah. Do you have all the movie channels? No. Wow, then you should really be nauseous. Because I got all the apps.

God knows what I'm- It's soccer fans have to pay $300 more. Guys, it's not- I wasn't I'm not wanting Red Zone in any of that stuff.

I'm not actually- That's baked into your cave.

I think I have that baked in.

Red Zone by itself is between $400 and $800 a year. Is it not?

Yeah, but you want to... Do you have YouTube TV?

I do, yes.

So you can watch the individual games.

I have to go non commercials as well, because now I'm in... At this point, I wonder how the audience feels about this. At this point, I simply can't do commercials anymore.

No, don't say that. We love commercials. Commercials are awesome.

Have you seen what Chaos, the Hockey Show, figured this out? That's a good show. It is a good show. It's the guy with the guy in the hat. Oh, white hat. They figured out something. They meant the hockey show. If you like to bet on hockey, as I'm wanting to do, as a lot of us do, you want to watch the games live. Espn's app decides they're going to run a uniform time for ads every game. So they discovered, why when I check the score online, is it so far ahead of where I am in the game? You think you're watching a game live? You're not. They're baking in the ad time to however they see fit, and they'll catch you up when you get there. The game runs on tape delay. You're not watching live games anymore.

So streaming already is delayed from live TV via cable. But what these guys discovered was that on top of that delay, ESPN Plus is delaying you even more because they don't care. So if you go live after the ad is over, it's not right where you are. It actually jumps ahead. Really? Yes. They are playing. They're gaming the system to make sure their ads are watched at the expense of you being up to date on your watching thing. That's why I don't like... I'm not a big fan of the streaming. I am one of the last people who is a court keeper. I keep my court because when I want to watch live sports, I want it to be live for reals.

I believe that-Why did you say that that way?

I don't know. I channeled Greg Cody there. For real.

Well done.

Thank you.

Really good. Thank you. Should be a new character. It should. What would the character be called, though?

Leon Cody.

Okay, thank you. I'm honored. Ryder Cup. Nice. Yeah, let's say where the Ryder Cup guy owns the house. Remember when Dan did that? Silly guy.

Not as bad as making Ray Bork, Ron Borges. That's true.

Ron's happy. Also just trampling Zaz's question.

That was the highlight of the show. That was the highlight of the show. We had so much fun back here just laughing at the way you just said, Yeah, Zaz, that question sucks.

He was just asking a form of the same question that I didn't get answered when he went on the Emmett Smith divergent path. I was just following up again on the same-So you did it with hostility.

Actually, a better question than that would be... It's actually worse. Dan carried resentment into doing that. I feel like I'm going to go back.

I'll listen on the podcast later. My part of the question is going to be edited out.

It was the same exact question. Actually, not what we would find most surprising, what you would find most surprising. Because I asked you before, and yeah.

Is that where we got the top five?

He did really well with that top five. That number one answer was- You asked him for a top five. What a top five. I'm serious. All five of those facts were interesting. I'm going to have to buy that book.

That's it.

Wait till it comes out on paperback. Hanging out with crack dealers.

Yeah, he did some real journalism. That's a little bit harder to do than it used to be. Most of the things you're reading and consuming, don't talk to 600 and some odd people before they get public. It's dying and Very few people actually want that thoroughness because he's getting frustrated by our attention span that last 20 TikTok seconds.

Did everyone get the Greg Cody joke there about when it comes out on paperback? Because I don't think that exists anymore as far as... No, as far as... It used to be It's a big thing in publishing. It's a hard cover, and then you wait, the paperback comes out and it's cheaper. I don't know if the listener now is aware of these. 20cv? 20cv. Where's that segment, Tony?

You're here. We could do it. You did do a promo tour real quick for your paperback release, right? This is a new and unimproved Dan Levatard show with the Stugas. Gamble on by DraftKings. Now is a good time to remember where tequila's story truly began. In 1795, Cuervo invented tequila. Cuervo. What are you doing here? Cuervo.

Anytime someone says Cuervo, I show up.

Well, I do know that to be true, but even during an ad reads like... Cuervo. I think it could lay out, especially for one of our great partners.

Sweet, delicious Cuervo.

Since then, Cuervo has stayed true to its roots. The same family, the same land, the same passion. Cuervo. So enjoy the tequila that started it all. Cuervo. Cuervo. The tequila that invented tequila. Proximo. Cuervo. Com. Please drink responsibly. Cuervo.