Transcript of Can James Harden Shake His Choker Reputation? + Should Wemby Be Suspended? | Hour 1 New

This is the Dan Lebatard Show with the Stugatz Podcast.

This episode of the Dan Lebatard Show is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings, the crown is yours.

Uh, Tony, what did you find for me before we get to Wemby and what happened with him yesterday, and before we get to, uh, the Sixers and the Knicks? Because I do want to talk about both sides of that. Joel Embiid has still not ever gotten out of the second round and had some post-game comments that were super unusual, I would say, that we'll get to in a second. But am I correct in what it is that I said about USA Today never winning a Pulitzer, the BBC and NPR never winning a Pulitzer, Time magazine, ABC News, NBC News never winning a Pulitzer?

Um, no, just because there's 23 different categories of Pulitzer Prizes, and actually NPR won one for the same category that Pablo won one, which is audio journalism, audio reporting. They won in 2021. So I'm gonna go through all 23 categories and see if there is overlap there.

Okay, but how about Disney? Has Disney won one? Because I was surprised to hear that ABC News in the entirety of its history had never won a Pulitzer. Now I will admit that, um, I did not know that you could win the Pulitzer for something that was not written. That's— I thought the Pulitzer was just something that was a written award. Didn't you guys think that as well? Were you not of the impression that that was only something that could be had by writing something? Because that's— that is what I thought. And I was floored. And I don't know if any of you were floored by this, but the placement— okay, I'm just going to— before I get to Sixers, Knicks, and Wemby, here's the first paragraph. And the third paragraph of what was reported about this. The New York Times won 3 Pulitzer Prize awards on Monday, including for an investigation into how President Trump is profiting from his deal-making, and news photography documenting starvation and destruction in Gaza, Gaza, and also for analyzing the rise of authoritarianism. So you've got Gaza, uh, Trump corruption, and authoritarianism in the first paragraph. The third paragraph is Reuters and the Washington Post winning for exhaustive coverage of the Trump administration's overhaul of federal agencies and how they were reshaping the country.

That's the first and the third paragraph. So authoritarianism, starvation and destruction, reshaping of the country, corruption. And then the second paragraph, an NBA player not planting trees. That's nuts. It's just totally nuts.

Yeah, so far The only punishment from any of those categories that you mentioned was the Clippers getting the 5th pick.

So now put this up on Pablo and you tell me whether we're in this realm. Pablo Torre just won a Pulitzer for his Ballmer story. Are we about to hit apex mountain for inflated self-regard?

That's funny coming from the Simmons Reddit.

Put it on the poll at Lebatard Show. Pablo winning a Pulitzer. Are we about to hit apex mountain for inflated self-regard?

So Disney has won a couple of Pulitzer Prizes because it was— it owned the Los Angeles Times from 2000 to 2016, where they've won a couple there. ABC News has won a couple between staff and journalists, and ESPN has won a couple as well.

You were way off.

Yeah, I was. Okay, so I wasn't right.

I'll check the other 22 categories.

It's actually not that impressive.

Yeah, it sounds like it. It sounds like it's getting diluted by the misinformation that I give as I talk.

You said it.

So the Sixers and the Knicks yesterday. This one's interesting for a few reasons before we get to the Wembley stuff, which is also interesting. The Sixers go from ending Boston season on the road, ending maybe Boston's architecture on the road, to never getting to celebrate that with their home fans and then coming home and getting slaughtered. And not only getting slaughtered because they can't trust Joel Embiid. This one was interesting to me, Zazz, because, oh, Paul George can look like that for a couple of games if he takes 25 of them off. And Joel Embiid can look like that. For a couple of games to knock off Boston, but over the course of a series, they'll get worn down so that in a Philadelphia arena that New York fans take over, you can have Josh Hart of the Knicks say this after they sweep the Sixers.

Nah, man, because everybody was begging for Philly to not sell their tickets and all that stuff.

So, man, yeah, it's—

I used to think Philly was a sports town. I don't know if it is anymore.

It's awesome. So I mean, it's such an awesome thing to say by Josh Hart. And you got Joel Embiid at the end of Game 7 last round begging and pleading with their fan base not to sell the tickets because Joel Embiid said, if you need the money, I got you. Now I don't know what that exactly means, Dan. Like, did he give some fans money? I, I— and then they still turned around, sold tickets. I don't know, we may need to look into that. But then for Josh Hart To say that I, I thought Philly was a sports town, that's something.

Well, look at how New York took over Philadelphia during this local news clip as well. And Action News reporter Cheyenne Corrine live inside Xfinity Mobile Arena tonight. Cheyenne, this game was brutal. Let's go, Walter!

You would think that I'm in New York right now instead of Philadelphia. This is absolutely not the way that fans were hoping to end this next year's season.

I am surrounded by Knicks fans right now. So after that you have Joel Embiid, or maybe it was during that. Here's Joel Embiid in the locker room saying something that is just a little bit mystifying from someone who played 38 games this season.

You know, I said it and I'm going to say it again. I know we lost, you know, and I know that's not the right mentality to have. But, you know, for me, this was a success. I came into this year not knowing where I was going to be, you know, how long I was going to play, if I was even going to play based on how the knee was the last, you know, the last few years. And, you know, I came in, you know, hoping for the best. And I feel like we're in a position where we figured out the knee.

The kid— the kid coughed, though.

Yeah, the Kolicki baby is the healthiest part of that sound.

To be fair, in context, he's talking about his knee.

Who cares?

But he says he feels healthy about the knee.

Talk about his knee? His knee kept him out for 50 games this season. What are you talking about, talking about the knee? How could you say that if you're Joel Embiid? They just— not only did they get swept, he's never been out of the second round in his career. They lost 144 to 114, and this was a success? He's due to make $58 million next season.

I think it was a success. You just contextualize how difficult their season was. They were down 3-1 to the Boston Celtics. They went on the road and Embiid had one of the classic closeout game performances in Philadelphia sports history. He did that on the road. Now, I understand a sweep to the degree that they had one against the New York Knicks is how you kind of burn up all that goodwill. But we cannot overlook what they did in that first round. We can't.

Mike.

They gave $200 million before last season to Embiid. They gave $200 million to Paul George, and this season ended with them getting curb stomped in 3 of 4 games in a sweep in the second round. Another second round that Embiid goes home in. It's not a success. There's no way you could shape it as a success.

There is one way I could shape it as a success, and it's just to pair it against everything year by year that he has done in the league. Are you ready? 2015 did play. 2016, did not play. 2017, missed playoffs. 2018, second round exit. 2019, second round exit. Uh, 2020, first round exit. 2021 through '23, second round exit. 2024, first round exit. 2025, missed playoffs. 2026, second round exit. It's the best he's done. It's— when he, when he plays through all of his injuries, and, uh, I— there was a comical headline before Game 2 which the closest game the Sixers played. The one without him in that series is the closest one they played. The headline before that game was something that would be written by comedy writers, which is just Joel Embiid out with multiple injuries. Like, they just say multiple injuries. And he was saying— and this part's fair— once I have surgery, once I have, uh, appendectomy emergency surgery, he said nothing else in my body was right. I came back too soon and nothing was balanced, uh, and every year, uh, he is playing with an assortment of broken body parts.

And that's what Philadelphia's core is built upon— him trying to get through 38 games this season. Last year, the year before, Bell's palsy. The year before that, he's playing with a mask because they've shattered his eye. He's saying— this is what must be so frustrating for Joel Embiid— is that he's saying after that game, nobody cares more about being out there or winning than I do. And his reputation The situation is exactly the opposite of that because he can't get out there because his body keeps betraying him.

Everything you're saying is completely reasonable, but that doesn't make any of this a success. It's not a success. And a main reason that it's not a success is because unfortunately he's never healthy. But because he was able to play in the final game of the year, a year that he missed more than half the games, and miss 4 of 11 playoff games. These are good reasons for missing games, but it's not a success.

Does this go back to the Giannis quote a couple years ago? It is not a failure where it's just like every, every year of your job you get a promotion. I'm doing my Giannis right now.

Don't do that. I mean, I'm just saying, do you know it's still a success, right?

You still had a good, a good year of work.

No, it's not the same old one.

It's not the same thing.

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Dan Lebatard!

Ahoy, it's Captain Slappy!

Stoogatz!

Is this Chum Bucket?

This is the Dan Lebatard Show with the Stoogatz!

Let's play this maxi sound. So you guys tell me if, uh, this sounds like success. Tyrese, can, can you describe what it was like playing again against the Knicks here, where their fans come down here and kind of take over your home arena? Do you, do you use it as fuel?

Yeah, it sucks. If I'm being honest, it just sucks, bro. It just sucks, man. Yeah, it just sucks. I can't— I— that's really all I can say about it, man. Like, I just— it's hard. It's definitely difficult, you know what I'm saying? And, uh, it's only one way to put a stop to it, and this is we have to go out there and win these games. Like, we— just being completely honest, we were better when we played them in, in the Garden this entire season. Like, I know we lost Game 2 and 1, but like, Game 2 was better. Regular season was better here. We was You know, I was telling them it just felt louder here for them than it did in the Garden. And it's like, um, well, we got to put a stop to it as a team. Like, winning these games, that's what's going to make, you know, our fans like louder than theirs or whatever. I don't know how to keep them out. I don't know the logistics of it, but, um, you know, it does suck. I can't even lie, it definitely does suck.

This is the best that the New York Knicks have felt since Larry Johnson hit a 4-pointer against the Indiana Pacers, uh, to get them to the Finals. What year, what year was that? Was that 2001?

Was that '99?

'99. So that's this century. This is the best that the Knicks have felt right now, this minute, where they have won 7 straight playoff games. They're the first NBA team ever to win 3 straight basketball games in the playoffs by more than 25 points.

I'm pretty sure like this generation of Knicks fans is going to look at this version of the Knicks the way that, you know, that fan base in the '90s looked at that version of the Knicks. Like this—

this is—

this is—

this is a more lovable team, though. That one had Latrell Sprewell on it and Larry Johnson, and they liked that team. They embraced that team, but they didn't have anyone on that team as beloved as Jalen Brunson leading that team. And the first quarter that the Knicks played to close out the Hawks is the best quarter of basketball that I saw from a team this season not named the Oklahoma City Thunder, where they were up with 4 minutes left in the second quarter. 72-22 is after— and, and it was on both sides. It wasn't just offensively. Yesterday they hit 18 threes in the first half when their record for threes in a game is 19, or the record for threes in a game was 19. They hit 18 in the first half. They had 81 at the half. That used to be more than the Knicks. The, the era you're talking about, Knicks basketball, there are any number of playoff games that didn't have an 81 next to a victorious Knicks team when they were finished with the basketball game.

They're rooting hard for the Cavs.

Yeah.

Yes. Because styles make fights. Now, Cleveland did make an acquisition that they, they hope mitigates New York's advantages over them. But Cade Cunningham, like, that, that could be a really interesting Eastern Conference Finals for a team that was on life support against Orlando.

The Knicks look good against 6s and 7s, and Detroit will be a different problem. They will not have any problems with Cleveland. They wouldn't have had any problems with Toronto. They match up extraordinarily well. Even with Harden, I don't need to watch that. But since you brought up Harden, does he buy himself anything with that last game, or does Harden have to do it again? Do it again.

No, but do it again.

So he's doing it.

So he's got to do it. So Harden, all Harden does. So I just want to be clear on this. When Harden disappears for 9 minutes at the end of Game 2, that's Harden being Harden. But when Harden wins Game 3 with everything he does at the end, he buys himself nothing, correct? Nothing at all. Yeah.

If you're a Hall of Fame player, which he is going to the Hall of Fame, okay. If you're a Hall of Fame player, you should be— it should be expected you're great every game. Every game.

He also has these disappearing acts and reappearing acts throughout playoff series his entire career, right? Like a couple years ago, had a 40-point game in a Game 6 and then has a dud for a Game 7.

No, but his—

that famous Game 6 didn't buy him anything. He's certainly not gonna get anything bought with a Game 3.

I believe that James Harden has the reputation throughout all of sports, not just American sports, all of sports, as the biggest choker there is. That right now, present. Now, this changes every few years, but Harden's held the title for a while. A reputation for a guy that, you know, is great. Hall of Famer, top 20 scorer of all time, multiple-time MVP. He's got a reputation as a choker that you guys are telling me cannot be shaken unless he does it in Game 7. And I don't agree with you. I think he's got to do it multiple times in a Game 7.

Yes, yes, no, you do agree with us. When Taz said that, we were all nodding along. You agree exactly with us.

When you nod your head like this, that's agree.

You cannot cherry-pick a Game 3. Where were you Game 1 and 2? He was terrible.

But I'm saying game— if he does it, if he does it to eliminate the Pistons in a Game 7, or it's not a second round, not even a Game 6, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, the reputation is is so embedded. It's a really unusual thing, guys. Usually a player of this caliber doesn't come with the reputation of this guy's more likely to not be trusted in an important moment late in a series. James Harden having that distinction, I don't think— I mean, McDavid sort of headed there even though he was playing incredibly hurt during the playoffs.

You don't think it's unfair, the Harden reputation, right?

It's not that I think it's unfair, it's just that I haven't seen it a whole lot. A a player of this caliber not be able to get under— out from under the stigma.

That's why it's a thing.

Where— where— but it's a thing, but it's a thing where you're not willing to change your mind unless it becomes a Game 7, because he just did it. Like, you cannot say— he just saved their season.

But the thing is, he can't do it in Game 7. He did it in games. Like, however impressed you are with this Game 3, that Game 6 that Tony mentioned was so much better, so much more impressive. And no one cares.

He just made that trade for him a winner by saving their season late. And after the game, when they're asking Donovan Mitchell about, hey, you didn't do anything late, he's like, we've got James Harden now. We've got a guy who takes the ball from me late in the games, and that is what we're going to trust late in games.

But that's why we all agree he has to do it more, because there are so many more opportunities for him to burn up goodwill. Like, it's not some contrivance, it's data fact.

I know, but the last— but the last game that you have as data would serve as disproof if you— if you were willing. Because he just—

well, then how can you eliminate game 2 and 1?

Because he just saved their season. How could game 1 and 2 be big but the one that saves their season's not a big moment?

I, I— oh, it's— it is a big moment in the complexion of that series for now, but he has to keep doing it. His reputation is overwhelming. For a reason.

And again, it's a series, like it needs to be more than one game. He has to be great for the series.

He can go out tonight and go 3 for 18 and everybody's talking about, "Oh my god, Harden again saved the season," quote-unquote, but now ruined the season again.

Like, he's not the caliber of player that it's like, "All right, he could win you, you know, one or two games in a series." No, he needs to be great the whole series.

He's a Mount Rushmore shooting guard, potentially. He is graded against all-time greats and what they do in the postseason, and he has a reputation that's unlike any of the other Mount Rushmore 2 guards. He's— you can make it a solid argument that he's a top 3 offensive player in the history of the game.

I mean, look, spin it in a— for a local perspective, and I'll use Dwyane Wade because Dwyane Wade seems to be this comp for James Harden, but I'm gonna do it anyway. Like, if the Heat were playing in a playoff game Dwyane Wade was expected to be amazing every single playoff game, and if he wasn't amazing in that game, that's a massive disappointment. Harden should be expected to be great every single playoff game. Don Lebatard.

I don't think I ever got that many roses in my whole life.

Stugatz.

Certainly not from your lovely grandfather, God may his soul rest in peace.

This is the Don Lebatard Show with the Stugatz.

I'm just surprised anytime a guy saves a season and it does nothing to improve his reputation. That's all I'm saying. And I'm saying it's because of empirical data that makes it so that he is a player who can shrink, uh, comparative to his greatness. But it's also because the reputation is now so imprinted and embedded that he's basically in Lamar Jackson territory.

It's a two— it's a two-man island right now.

But Lamar's the only other one.

Lamar, he's bad in those big games. Josh Allen can be accused of having that reputation, but Josh Allen, outside of this Denver game where he made some puzzling decisions, still had a decent box score. But he's been incredible in some of these games. Lamar, like Harden, what is happening here? You're one of the all-time greats. Why are you so much worse in this moment?

You guys have for me a couple of other names that you can throw into the mix that I'm talking about, this mix. yes, all active— of Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and James Harden, where it's not just that he has to do it at the end of games, it's not just that he has to do it at the end of playoff games, he has to do it at the end of the playoff games. Like, at the end of the playoffs is— is the standard is in a place where everything you do before the last games of the season doesn't matter at all. We're not erasing what your reputation is, we're not even going to give you this much room to move I don't know if he's there.

I think the standard for him is why are you bad compared to where you are during the regular season? Like, it's not just like do it in these late moments, and it's not just missing shots, it's, it's, it's turning the ball over. Yeah, I think the standard is why— this is puzzling— why are you worse?

Agreed. Uh, all I would say to you is that Detroit defense is really good, and the end of playoff games is the hardest time in all of basketball to score, and he won that game. Like, that, that Detroit team game playing to finish the Cavs, uh, James Harden would not let them. That's what happened at the end of the game.

Yes, but if they get eliminated in 6, no one will ever remember that game.

No one. I feel like Auston Matthews is that guy in hockey. He's probably— I think McDavid, it's not fair. I wouldn't put him there.

It was Mitch Marner.

I mean, it was. McDavid ended up winning a postseason MVP in a season when they won the Stanley Cup. Right, right. This is for— I'm trying to think in playoffs, the only superstars that have this thing about their chokers and the reason why they're chokers, it's because they're bad and they're really bad in these big games. It's Lamar and James Harden right now.

Yeah. Like there's no one currently in baseball, right? Since there's no more Kershaw.

But what, what you guys are doing though, that is to me interesting is I'm telling you right now that he can do it. Do it for the remainder of the games in this series, knock off the Pistons, and still in the next round, you still won't take it off for James Harden. Like, he can do it. That would go a long way.

No, no, no, it is the second round, but I, I would give him flowers.

Yeah, I'm not saying the flowers would rot quickly in the next round if he doesn't keep doing it, is what I'm saying. It's a super unusual situation for a player of his caliber to find himself in that I'm telling you, the next 3 games, he can do exactly what he just did Finish the Detroit Pistons and you guys will still be waiting for him to choke in the next round against the Knicks.

What's the same conversation with Joel Embiid, right? That's another guy who we look at and we're like, you're so good, you had, you had a 33-10 season, you won an MVP, you can't play. And when sometimes the big games do come up, you come up short. He has come up with big games in the past like he did with the, uh, with the Celtics in that series, but then he comes to the Knicks series and where were— was he, was he playing? Was he there? I don't know.

And I don't know exactly what it does to the conversation, but at this stage in his career, he was brought there to take pressure off of Donovan Mitchell. Donovan Mitchell is the face of that franchise. Now it seems to be a loaded team, a lot of guys for that playoff team is stepping up right now. James Harden is not asked to be the guy that puts the entire team on his shoulders. Now he was that in Game 3, that was amazing by him, but it's also why he gets to live in a space where we're not really talking about Games 1 and 2 all that much.

If the Cavs win the series, which they won't, but James Harden is great and they advance the next round, and like you said, what if he's terrible the next round and they lose? You, you, you say that our negative reaction to him, you say that as if that would be unfair. I think it's completely fair. Even if he carries them in this second round to a victory and then he's terrible in the conference finals, yeah, we're gonna crush him. I think it's completely fair.

I'm not saying it's unfair. I'm saying it doesn't have a lot of precedent for a player of this caliber where the thing that you attach to him is not merely the not winning of a championship, but also is gonna disappear for 9 minutes at the end of the game where you're not even sure whether he's on the court or at concessions because of what happened in Game 2, for example, where you're expecting what happens in Game 2 and you're surprised what happens at the end of Game 3.

We're probably getting close to that with Aaron Judge.

Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. And basically, that's a great one.

He's got to win the big one.

You can cherry-pick some individual moments like, oh look, he came through in that moment just like he did in the last postseason, right?

If he carries them in the ALCS, then he stinks in the World Series, he's gonna get hammered.

Well, but that one was unfair because he was great last postseason. Season, wasn't he?

He was not good at the start and then he was good in the World Series, right?

I mean, so you're— so the, the earlier games are the pressurized ones, but the World Series games are the ones where the pressure's not on him?

No, no, I, I think, I think in that part it's unfair.

Didn't he have a major goof in the World Series where he, he short played a ball that went over his head?

He dropped the fly ball. I think it's a, it's a good name because statistically not as good in the, in the postseason. Same with Lamar and same to James. All Dan is doing is marveling how at rare it is, and we're all agreeing, yes, it's super rare, but it's not a contrivance. It's not some media-made fabrication that you can just point to stats and say, well, look, he's the same guy. He's very clearly not.

I'm not saying it's a fabrication. I'm just saying that usually when you save a season against the Detroit Pistons, their brand of basketball defensively— playoff basketball— by making all the tough shots at the end where Donovan Mitchell's the one the one that gets pushed off to the side because, uh, you've got a situation where the Pistons are saying, okay, James, go ahead and beat us. Because it's not like, it's not like these teams don't also have the scouting report, right? They're going to dare James Harden to be the one that beat them, uh, beat them. But he did the last game, and I don't think he gets much for it. I think it gets immediately erased. It's not— you mentioned the 40-point game in Game 6. I still hold the Game 7 against the Warriors against him when he's the MVP of the league with the Rockets.

And that's why a large part of his his reputation is what it is because he was supposed to be the man there, and Chris Paul took a little of the heat away from him. I, I do think that even if he's great this series, even if he is the reason why they beat Detroit, it'll probably be unfair that he doesn't get anything for it, because then he's going to be in the Conference Finals against the New York Knicks. The pressure is going to be ratcheted up, and he is going to be the guy that they brought in specifically to overcome the Knicks.

CP3 is a guy that gets kind of like put— I know he retired this year, so maybe we can like angle him in there, but he's another guy that was elite point guard. The guy was supposed to be the face of the team and, and make all the right plays and would always come short in big moments.

I mean, yeah, he saved their season in Game 3, but we could also make the case that he wouldn't have had to save their season if he wasn't so terrible in Games 1 and 2. Like, if he, like, if he was, if he was good in Games 1 and 2, Game 3's not gonna be on the line.

They're the lesser team though. They, I mean, the Pistons have been better all season even after the Cavs traded for Harden. Mike, let's see here. Tony's making faces. You know, are they the better team of the Pistons? You don't think— I mean, the piss— all regular season they were. Maybe that doesn't mean anything anymore given what I saw from the Celtics this year and how the playoffs can change a basketball team. But it doesn't appear like— for all the talk we had about, hey, the Pacers made it as a 5 and the Mavs made it as a 5, it appears that this year it's going to be 1s and 2s and 1s and 3s, and it's not going to end up being Cleveland, and it's not going to end up being the 3s distort everything. It's just going to be at the end. I suppose Minnesota could beat San Antonio, but it's looking like it's going to be 1s and 2s and 1s and 3s.

I mean, we got to see what the NBA hands out.

That game was awesome when it comes to Wemby, because you could look at—

like, it looks pretty bad on a replay. Looked bad as it happened. That— do you think he's going to get suspended?

No, no, no, he—

no chance.

Tony, did you just do play on? You just did play on.

That was pretty crazy.

It was egregious.

When you slow it down, it looks as intentional as it felt like live.

It was intentional. It was dirty. Look, I'll ask you this. If this was— if this was— this took place in February. And today I'm asking you, is Wembenyama getting suspended? The answer is what?

No.

Really?

He's not getting suspended.

I think he gets suspended for that. I think he gets suspended for that.

If it's a regular season, I think he's 100% getting suspended.

In postseason, we'll see. He's bought a lot of goodwill, you know. Yet the part of this is, did Wemby really mean to do that? He seems so nice.

Sure looked like it.

He's benefiting from it even being a discussion.

It—

dude, that look— that was really bad.

Terrible.

He should be suspended.

That should have been at the UFC 328 on Saturday night, that spinning back elbow.

Super dangerous. Now also, he's so tall.

Yes.

That I'm not— but I can't make that— he's 7 feet tall. I'm not gonna make that excuse for him. Did he not mean it? His face looks so intentional.

Yeah, absolutely, man.

I, I will say this, he absolutely meant to swing the elbow, but I'm with Mike on this. He's also of a height that when he swings his elbows, he's hitting a dude, uh, most people at the top of the head, over the head. Usually when he's swinging his elbows, he's not hitting someone directly in the—

kind of gives a peripheral, like, oh, he's there, okay, good.

Yeah, you want to try that word again?

It was an extra peripheral.

Natural. Shut up. I think you threw an eye in there.

His face scared me a little bit. Like, there was like, like some rage there.

Who, Dylan Harper's?

No, Wemby. Let's play it one more time. When he cocks that, that elbow back, like, that is— he means to do that.

He absolutely meant to do it.

And he takes a look at like the target again.

I'm— no, I'm agreeing with you that he meant to hit him with an elbow. What I'm saying is he didn't mean to hit him where he hit him with the elbow. He did not. I don't believe that he meant to hit him in the face, in the chin. He also seemed to be confused about what a flagrant 2 was.

What a show that was. What a show. Oh, you know everything about everything. You ask Gobert about water filters, but you don't know flagrant 2 kicks you out of the game? You've been in the NBA for 3 years. What are we doing?

He's never gotten a flagrant 2.

He doesn't know what it means.

He's never been in a game where somebody's gotten a flagrant 2 before?

Well, but if it didn't involve him—

You think he's lying?

Yes.

So, but it's very clearly— but he didn't say it. They caught him. Hold on, hold on.

It was a performance, Dan.

Come on, Tony. They didn't— they did also interview him, but you're objecting to his confusion, and he was caught in a private moment on the bench turning to a teammate and saying, what happened? What's up? What's the flagrant two?

What happened?

I'll put a guy in the net. And they're kicking you out of the game.

This is— you're being fooled by the person's reputation. This is the Miles Garrett thing all over again.

100%.

Miles Garrett got such a benefit of the doubt and to this day still does. And he was rage-filled for one really ugly second that he is somehow quelled a little bit because everyone just wants to believe this is such a nice guy. That was evil from Wemby.

Thank you, Mike.

This is why he's going to become like the great supervillain.

You think he might be evil?

I think he is. Dude, I'm trying to tell you. I'm enjoying this run right now because I kind of want to vanquish OKC at the moment. This is his only moment to be a babyface. This is like Survivor Series Deadly Game where The Rock has a crowd.

Oh, he had me fooled.

Yeah, he has a crowd right behind him. We get a mega face right here. This is going to be incredible. And then he turns to the help of the McMahons to screw over— I was shocked, mankind.

I did not see that coming. Tony, you're telling me that this is the same thing that Wemba Nyama— I know you've been on his case.

Evil.

You, you think Wemby could be evil?

Yes, that's what I've been trying to tell you. He does. He says all these things to make sure that, oh wow, he's, he's so conscious about whatever. You're not conscious about a crazy elbow you throw at Nazemian's neck.

This changes everything if true.

Uh, let's listen to the Spurs coach Mitch Johnson, uh, defending Wemby.

In general, I do think it's, it's getting to a point that it's— if the people that are in charge of controlling the game and protecting the physicality again, don't do that, then at some point he's gonna have to protect himself. We've been asking him to do that now for a while. Um, so that call, and Glenn Nasri was okay and sound like the call was warranted. But in terms of, um, the game plan of every single team we face since that kid's— that young man's been in the league, and the physicality that people, uh, try to impose on him, and the lack of protection is really disappointing. At some level, it's starting to get actually disgusting just in terms in terms of when he tries to fight through things and be professional and mature and deal with some of that stuff. I'm glad he took matters into his own hands. Again, not in terms of hitting Nas Reed, but I wouldn't be very clear about that. I'm glad Nas Reed was okay, and I didn't want him to elbow him, but he's gonna have to protect himself if they're not, and I think it's disgusting.

Why has he got that Doc Rivers disease?

Does— I get it, you got to come out and help your, your best guy, your face of the franchise. This is embarrassing. This sound was embarrassing.

Also, what are you arguing? Was it a mistake or wasn't it?

Because he's arguing that there's so much roughhouse going on with Wemby the whole season—

Welcome to the NBA playoffs!

No no no just because he's 8 feet tall doesn't mean you could just jump all over him. I know what he's saying there but he gives the game away by saying exactly what you just said. He makes it seem even more intentional because this is a player they play me physical that's the only way that they can stop me we've been coaching them to defend himself so this is what he does now he took it into his own hands he literally says that well that's the intention behind it and was a direct elbow elbow to a chin. That should be a suspension for at least a game.

I don't think he gets suspended.

Uh, he did miss half of a game. He did miss, or 3 quarters, second quarter, 2 and a half quarters. Yeah. Uh, so here is Nick Wright agreeing with you. I'm not sure what I find more outrageous, he says. Wemby, who once upon a time said he studied the rules of the All-Star Game skills challenge, pretending he didn't know a flagrant 2 gets you ejected, or for his coach justifying the dirtiest, most dangerous play of the playoffs. This is the most, uh, dangerous, dirtiest play since when in the playoffs? Because you don't— you see guys swinging elbows all the time in the NBA. You never see this. This is just something that does— never mind the playoffs, you never have a star player ejected from a playoff game, a face of the league ejected from a playoff game for a clearly dirty play. You can argue whether it's intentional or not. I don't actually think you should be arguing whether his reaction on the bench was sincere or not. I think he was confused about the idea that he might get ejected. I don't think he expected to get ejected.

I think the last time I think of a big elbow was when Ron Artest dented James Harden's forehead, but that was the end of the regular season. Oh, was that— I thought that was first round.

Maybe the suspension was 7 games. It was 1 regular season game and then 6 playoff games.

Gotcha. So just missed it.

Yeah.

On the superstar scale of intention, this is the second worst act in sports in French athletics history. He didn't think it was gonna be a red card there, Dan.

I was trying to think of Boris Diaw.

Headbutting, uh, just randomly.

That—

a chill just went down my spine when he said Boris Diaw. Oh, I feel like I saw a Ghost.

My favorite part about the Zinedine Zidane situation is that soccer players, even when fighting, don't use their hands. Like, the idea that he went to the headbutt to be dirty—

not talked about enough.

Uh, well, the Wemby thing will be talked about plenty if the NBA does the shocking thing and knocks him out for another game.

The commissioner's done nothing.

They're too big into the Wemby thing. He's in Wemby pocket. He had to do something, which is why he got taken out for the game for a flagrant 2. There is 0.0% chance that he misses a second. Can you imagine like the letter, the note that Wemby's sending Adam Silver this morning, Tony?

Oh, a plate of cheese.

Oh, Bordeaux wine.

Get out of here. It's calligraphy.

Uh, put it on the poll, uh, is there a 0.0% chance that Wemby is suspended for one more second?

Second? Iota? One iota of a second?

For one more? You guys would be shocked by that, correct? You guys be suspended. Yes, but it's dirty enough to— I think it's dirty enough to warrant that. Like, I wouldn't have a huge objection if you guys— if, if all of a sudden the news was Wemby's also going to end up missing the next game because this was so flagrant, and you can— you simply cannot have something this dirty, uh, being, uh, in any way, uh, condoned.

All right, so here's the question if it was Draymond Green or Dylan Brooks.

See, the reputation— and that's exactly what's happening here, just on the other side. His reputation is making this a discussion and a very sincere chance that he gets to escape it because everyone agrees, oh, he seems like a good guy. That's how they get you.