Transcript of An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

Coming up, it's fake trade season. Let's go. We're also brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new rewatchables on Monday night. We did a rewatchables mailbag.

I had a great time. Thanks to everybody who sent in emails. We came up with new categories, couple theme months, slightly tweaked the structure of the show, had some laughs. So it was me and Chris Ryan and producer Craig Horlbeck. If you wanna watch that, it is on the Ringer movies YouTube channel.

If you wanna watch anything from this podcast, the Bill Simmons YouTube channel, we did not do a podcast Tuesday. Making up for it today with a special basketball podcast. Our old friend Kevin O'Connor is coming in. We're gonna talk about a bunch of teams that are in trouble. We're gonna talk about fake trades.

What's realistic? What's not? Where are people like Jimmy Butler going? Could there be a surprise? The trade deadline is February 6th.

We're breaking all of it down. 1st, our friends from Pearl Jam. Alright. We're taping this. It is 4 o'clock Pacific time.

There's reasons for that, which I'll get to, but, very excited to have Kevin O'Connor here. You might remember him from many, many, many years at the ringer. He is now at Yahoo. We have not done a podcast during this basketball season. What better time, KOC, than fake trade season for us to reunite?

Best time of the year, Bill. And I have to say, you know, you know, I called you on the phone when I left for Yahoo, but I have to thank you for everything, you know, those 8 years of the year publicly. I have to. I have to.

Yeah. We're we're we're always good. Yes. Of course. So, unfortunately, we had to take this a little late on Wednesday because I was flying back from Boston this morning.

And then there was a Wi Fi issue on the plane, and I'm like, is this gonna work out? Am I gonna be able to do a podcast there? The Wi Fi miraculously came back, and then I was on my iPad for hours making fake trades. And I think a couple times, the lady next to me was like, what's this guy doing? Why what is what is this trade machine that he has?

But before we do that, a bunch of teams I wanna hit, just big picture, that kinda relate to this in some ways. Biggest 1, Dallas. I think Dallas is in real trouble now. This lively injury, it's a foot injury, and they're saying out 2 to 3 months. And as I've said a million times, I never trust feet injuries.

I always feel like they're not being honest about how long the timetable is because I'm not sure they know. And I always go worst case scenario. 3 months takes us into the playoffs. It takes us into round 1. And on top of it, Lucas hurt, and I just I I thought Dallas was gonna be there in the end.

This is the first time I got worried.

Yeah. I think with the this lively injury, there's been some trickling out for a few days that, like, oh, maybe they're gonna go after a center, but I'm like, maybe they wanna just have some versatility in the front court. But now that we know about the injury, it completely explains why Right. Going for a center here. And so my question is, what type of center are they gonna go for?

They're gonna go for another, you know, lob vertical guy like Lively, like Gafford. But if you add a 3rd guy like that and then Lively comes back,

you can't Right. Then what then what's your problem?

Make any sense. Yeah. Exactly. So I wonder if maybe for them, they still go after, you know, a pick and pop big or a switchable big, somebody like that to give them some front court versatility. But Gaffer looked damn good in the first half of their game on Sunday.

So, like, the Gaffer, we know he can step his play up. So I I wouldn't say I don't think I'd go as far as you to say that they're screwed, but it is gonna be a lot dependent on what they do to fill that center gap because it can't just be Gaffer. That's all they have now.

Well, they're screwed in this respect. Right now, they're 7th in the west. They're 23 and 20. Doesn't look like Lucas coming back until the all star break. There's teams that are just settled in way ahead of them now.

The top 4, Oklahoma, Houston, Memphis, Denver, I just don't think they're catching any of those teams, especially with the way Denver's playing. So now you're looking at I don't have homecourt advantage any round. I don't know when Labley's coming back. They also made a lot of trades already. They don't have, like, a shitload of assets.

You know? They've already made a lot of their moves, and they would have to dip into the Klay, PJ Washington, like, that kind of group to improve with their they need to improve. So I'm sure their game plan's just gonna be we're probably gonna be in that 7 to 10 range. Let's hope Lavender comes back. Let's hope Luca gets going.

We'll be there in the end. But pretty tough, man. If you're in those playing games and then you're on the road every round, we haven't really seen, we haven't seen a lot of success with that recipe, KOC.

I mean, even with a healthy lively, I'm curious. Like, do you still view them as, like, upper tier in the Western Conference, right on the same level as Denver who's really come along lately? Come along. The like like, Russell Westbrook, you've gotta give the dude credit. He is playing at the best best level that he has in years.

Jamal Murray getting a lot better now.

Danny Chad wrote about it for us. It's the most improbable relationship we've had in the NBA this decade. Jokic and Westbrook somehow, like, joining forces in a positive way. I don't understand it.

It it's kinda crazy, like, with Russ. It didn't work with LeBron. It works sometimes with the Clippers, but not all the time. It didn't end in 1 of their playoffs.

And not at the end.

And then with yeah. And then with Jokic, it's like you have Jokic after the game talking about, like, we could read each other's minds. Like, there is some chemistry that they have. It feels like every other game, once it's Jokic and Westbrook, then it's Jokic and Murray, then it's Jokic and MPJ. Yeah.

It's always a different connection. Like, their their offense sometimes I felt like it got a bit dry. Like, sometimes it was always Jokic Murray end of game situations, but there's variety now that makes me think, wait a minute. Is Denver actually just the only true contender besides OKC in the Western Conference? Are they actually the team that could take them down?

Because I'm not I'm not totally sold on Dallas anyway. I think they have too many holes. I'm still worried about Lucas' health. I mean, when you're coming back post all star break Right. With that type of injury, it's that's the type of thing they can get hurt again.

And Kyrie in and out still as well. Lot of questions there with them even prior to Lively.

But Yeah. But here's the flip side of this is why it was stupid to give up on Denver a month ago. If you have 1 of the best 6 players in the league, you just have to be taken serious in the playoffs. So the question for me is, can he get back to the right shape? When can Lively come back?

Can they sneak out? Like, if they're playing Houston in round 1 at 27, they could beat Houston. I don't know if Houston has another gear. So I'm sure they're not totally panicking yet, but it's not great. You know?

And then you think, like, Lucas 26 now. They made the finals last year. They really went all in on this season, and Oklahoma City kinda took their spot. But, yeah, I'm not I'm not a full level panic. I don't like the fact that they're not gonna have home court any round every round.

And I also don't know what the trade move is. So next 1 is Philly, who is borderline shut it down territory, but you also look at the east and it's like, yeah, they could make the play in game. And what if they have those guys in mid April and they're all healthy? And I don't really know what the answer is. But the the big thing is their first pick is top 6 protected, which everybody's been talking about all week.

And I I thought about how OKC gets that pick. Right? If it's, like, 7th in a really good draft that I'm sure I'm sure you've been become fascinated by. This is the Sam Presti revenge on Daryl Morey. The James Harden trade, 2012.

Right? And it became this thing that that became this curse over OKC. They never got to the finals, and Daryl kind of made his career in a lot of ways. The flip side of this, OKC gets this pick because Philly has to dump Al Horford. Right?

And now this pick is paralyzing Philly with their decisions because you maybe wanna just throw away the season, and yet you can if Embiid is gonna be healthy in 2 weeks. So what do you do if you're Philly?

I don't think you can throw away the season. You can't. Like like you said, with Embiid, if he's healthy, they've been good after he got back in December. Granted, he's missed

a lot

of times since then. But if Embiid's healthy, you know you're competitive. The problem is the fact that you get Paul George, and you're saying, well, he's just gonna be better than Tobias Harris. He's gonna be way better than Harris that has been for us, and then he looks like Tobias Harris for you. And so if Paul George is actually

Is that Vince also Tobias Harris? I'm not I'm not sure. Yeah.

It is. Because Tobias Harris is very average, below average with the sixers, and he's been pretty good with the Pistons. No.

What I'm saying is to would Tobias Harris listen to this to be, like, yo, yo.

I've been better

than Paul George, but who's that player?

That that'll be fair if if he did say that he's at least been on the court. But with Paul George, he just looks like a complete shell of his former self. So if the Paul George decline is beginning and this isn't just an off year at 35, 36 years old, whatever he is, you have to take advantage of these years, especially if like, Embiid is healthy come April, and you sneak in as the 7 or the 8th seed.

That that You can't waste your the 7 or the 8th seed. They're gonna be 9 or 10, but they could still sneak in because they'd have

to win 2 playing games. Yeah. That's what I mean. If they win the 2 playing games and they sneak in in that case and there's a 7 or 8, like, you gotta you have to go for that possibility. You can't completely tank out here.

But if Embiid doesn't come back, moving up on the lottery is your silver lining here for Philadelphia. That that but I don't think you can tank for that. It's not worth doing that. You at least have to go forward. Otherwise, it's another year wasted.

And for Daryl Morey in the front office as well and Nick Nurse as head coach, that could mean your job too. If they do miss the playoffs and if next year they go into things and it's not better, you might not get another job anytime soon. So I don't think they have much of a choice but to go for it now.

We have hit fall guy range, and it's gonna be the nurse or Daryl. And I don't know which 1 it's gonna be, but we're very close at this point.

And The nurse those guys don't play hard for a nurse at all.

But No. They don't seem like they it it just we've seen this happen over the course of the NBA history. Like like, Don Nelson was a great coach. He took over the Ewing Knicks at 1 point in the mid nineties, and I think he lasted, like, 45 games. It just didn't work.

I don't know if it's that bad for them, but when you don't have 2 of your best 3 guys, basically, never playing you know, they had this huge stretch last week. It was, like, 4 and 5 against all good teams, and Embiid missed all the games. And then he met and then they were, like, he's probably out at least another week. If you look at their schedule, any game where he would come back, it's a good team. If there's, like, always, like, a Boston or a Cleveland, there's some somebody on there, and I just I don't think he's gonna come back until he's healthy.

I think I don't think he wants to come back at his ass kicked. So I don't know if you're Nick Nurse, what do you do on that? But the Paul George piece is the shocking thing. I guess we should have known. He's been in the league a while that it was possible, but I don't know.

He was always hit or miss, but he hit, and he did he's not hitting anymore. There's it's more misses or I forgot you were out there than hits.

Yeah. I mean, at at the least, at a minimum, he was a far better spot up shooter than Tobias Harris. He was always above 40% from 3. Tobias Harris was very streaky and consistent in lower volume. This year, Paul George, only 35% from 3, has not been a knockdown guy on top of, you know, just stinking it up end of game situations, losing control of the ball in the final minutes of games, some real careless turnovers, and the defense is not at a lockdown level for that matter either.

So, like, the things that you thought at a minimum were getting elite defender and knockdown shooter who can sometimes go off, you're not even getting the role player stuff from here right now. And so that's where where your Philadelphia if he's not producing, I don't know if there's an answer for you to solve that at all with this roster. You're you were banking on Paul George. You waited for him in free agency. That's what the whole plan was, was to go out and get Paul George for 7 months.

This was the plan. So if he's not working out, nobody's gonna take him for that matter. Who do

you think's the most relieved? Orlando? The Clippers? I wonder who else would have been in the mix on that.

Well, Golden State was in the mix for Paul George too.

Golden State. Oh, yeah.

But but at the same time, can you be relieved if you're them, though? You're super average this year.

Yeah.

You're a 5th team. Yeah. So Philly needs to Philly needs to use those picks, though. They have 4 tradable picks. They need to use those, I'd say.

Would you use McCain, who's out for the year?

I don't know. He looks pretty damn good, Phil.

Long term, McCain Maxey is your backcourt. Does that is that a backcourt that makes sense to you from a basketball standpoint?

It's too it's too small. Yeah. It's too small. But I I think McCain's value would only go up. To me, I mean, I think, like, everybody talks about Jimmy Butler as a as a guy to Phoenix and, you know, all these other teams.

Nobody ever mentions Philly. What if Philly offered 3 first with Paul George to reunite Jimmy Butler with Joel Embiid? Maybe you don't do that if you're Philly. Maybe you keep your tradable picks and go elsewhere, but I'm just throwing the idea out there. And maybe Miami rolls the dice with Paul George as a longer term salary.

I have Paul George coming up later when we get to the fake trade section of this podcast because it's a fascinating topic. So we agree. Philly's not shutting it down. They still have a chance to be a 9 or a 10 seed. If they can get all those guys healthy for 2 months, that's still the plan.

If I'm Daryl Morey, like, that's a better chance than keeping my fingers crossed in the lottery. Okay. Next 1. New Orleans is in what the fuck land where they suck, But now that all their guys are back, they're actually, like, pretty solid and really talented, and Trey Murphy's been playing great. And they might be too talented to be a full tank team, a lot of Brooklyn and teams like that.

They have some good trade assets. Ingram has an expiring his hurt right now. Zion, year to year, he can get out. CJ McCollum, overpriced, but reasonable to for somebody who needs a scoring something. And then, I guess, Murray.

Their roster doesn't really make sense. I don't even know what the move is. What do they do? What do you do if you're running New Orleans?

I think you just keep it going. Honestly, I I wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily tank it out unless you're getting a really, really good deal from a column. Yeah. I think trading CJ McCollum would definitely be top of my list aside from the obvious Ingram by the way.

Gonna be upset at me again because he thinks I always throw him in trade rumors.

I mean, nobody's wanted Ingram for a year and a half.

Especially now that he's hurt.

Yeah. Yes. Is that gonna change in the next 3 weeks here? With McCollum, at least he has had some banger performances as of late. He's looked healthy.

He looks very good for them right now. So maybe you're trading McCollum. The issue is the fact that he's a tough guy to trade at $33,000,000 this year. He's still a smaller smaller guard. So for New Orleans, part part of me, Bill, looks at this as a year in which your horrible start with Zion missing time keeps you in the lottery.

It's gonna keep you having good draft odds. So if you do win towards the end of the yes. So if you win towards the end of the season, maybe you actually have some clarity on what you wanna do heading into the summer. So I'm not totally against keeping things together because you're gonna have a lottery pick anyway. Like, it's you're not gonna get into the play in.

It's you're too far back right now. So I'm okay with keeping things together right now. And if Zion is, you know, back to prime Zion for the whole rest of the season Yeah. I think that maybe gives you, you know, an idea of what you wanna do in the summer if you're the Pelicans versus dumping things right now just for slightly higher odds.

You just stumbled into the answer. These next 2 months are about building back Zion up as a genuine asset and then trying to get out of that get out of that situation as fast as you can.

So you're still ejecting from the Zion situation? I am. The I I No matter what.

Healthy for 2 months, that trade trade when the value is high. There are 11 wins be or 11 losses behind Phoenix for the 10 seed.

That's crazy.

So there's no scenario where they catch fire, unfortunately. We're I 1 of the things about trading McCollum is then you could play Jordan Hawkins more. It's weird. They're they're deep, but they also have a terrible record. They make no sense as a as a team of assets.

Anyway, next 1. I didn't know it was gonna be today. What's today's date? January 22nd. I thought it was gonna be after the Celtics game the next day when we celebrated the annual Lakers holiday, passive aggressive trade day, when some report comes out that LeBron and AD or just LeBron aren't happy with the roster.

It happened today. It was January 22nd. I wish I had had FanDuel put odds with all the different days in January when it was gonna happen, but it happened today. LeBron and AD apparently really want them to improve the roster. They're not that happy with it.

I don't know what the move is, KOC. When you're paying those 2 guys a 100 +1000000 dollars a year and you have Reeves, your roster's pretty good. And maybe look in the mirror a little bit. And I don't I went through everybody. I don't if it's Ruhi and Vanderbilt and Vincent and 2 firsts, I don't even know what you're getting.

Who's available? If it's a top 50 player, nobody wants to trade a top 50 player. So you're looking at people like Zach LaVine. And if they got Zach LaVine, I just don't think they're a contender in the West. They would have the same problems they have anywhere where they can't guard anybody.

I would never Reeves is a hang up for me if somebody called about Reeves at 12,000,000,000 a year. It's like, yeah. I'm sure you do want Oscar Reeves. Fuck off. Hang up.

I don't know what the move is for them. I don't know how they're a title contender, and I have some ideas zagging the other way. But what do you think?

If you're trying to add, which I I don't think they're gonna go the other way, Walker Kessler as a center. Try to go get him from Utah, then you can play 2 big lineups.

Are you winning 4 rounds if you make a Walker Kessler trade?

Just just just 1 of the names. You you can trade 2 picks. You can trade multiple swaps. You do have some tradable salaries. So maybe that's 1 of the guys you go for.

And I don't know if you and I feel the same way about this guy, Bill, but I think everything Zach LaVine has done this year, forget about what we're aligned on that. Okay. So, like, to me, like, if you're able to put a package together for Zach LaVine, and it's a tough deal, it'd probably have to be a 3 way. But if you go get Zach LaVine and add him to the bunch with LeBron James, Anthony Davis, and you're able to go get a 5 like Walker Kessler, you have Dorian Finney Smith already. You have Austin Reeves.

Like suddenly you have, like, a really good top 6, top 7 with a lot of dynamic scoring ability, versatility on defense, different lineup configurations that you can play. So I think the Lakers should be adding. They should try to trade their 2931. They should try to trade their swaps. They should try to go for something here.

If I was a Lakers fan, I would be losing my mind at this. Like, really? We're we're gonna mortgage basically the next 6 years so we can fulfill this charade that we're a title contender?

What if you

just against Oklahoma City?

What if you slightly protect those picks?

I wouldn't do it. I would zag the other way. And if Reeves is in a trade, they're just flat out

stupid. What's what's the other way? Does that mean trading AD? Trading LeBron?

I don't I have an AD idea. Okay. I think they should think about Zag in the other way in trading AD. And, you know, it's a really interesting thing to bring up to Laker fans because I think they're grateful they won the title in 2020, but I also feel like they don't wanna lose the entire decade trying to pretend that they can win a title with these 2 guys as their best players because they can't. You know?

And you watch them first of all, did you see that stat about how their their, their record versus what the record actually is? Like, how far the expected win rate or whatever that status, which backs up what I've watched. Like, they've lucked out with some schedule stuff. I don't think they're that good, and I think they know they're not that good. Whatever their record is, it you're like, they're gonna play the Celtics tomorrow night, and LeBron will have his a game, and they're just not good enough defensively if the Celtics play well.

Granted, the Celtics could go 7 for 50 for 3 and get smoked in a second game back to back, but, defensively, they're just not good enough. And I don't know if Walker Kessler is changing that.

Yeah. If you look at the the teams in the NBA right now with 23 plus wins

Yeah.

The only 2 teams with a negative point differential are Magic, minus 0.5, and the Lakers, minus 2.

And the Magic lost their 2 best players for most of the season.

Yes. Yep. And the Lakers, they they're the only team in the West top 6 right now with a negative plus minus on this entire season.

See it. I I I would not give away the rest of the future just because LeBron wants a better team. You know, part of it is you insisted on the Anthony Davis trade. You guys won a title for it. You gave away all of these assets.

You struck oil with Reeves. That was 1 of the luckiest things that coulda happened to any team to get a guy is was he undrafted or a second runner? He was undrafted. Right?

Pretty sure he went on drafted. Yeah.

Yeah. And then they get him on this crazy contract because he didn't go out and shop himself, so he's, like, 12,000,000 a year for you know, that's 1 of the best contracts in the league. So if you just look at those 3 things and the role players they have, you would think they would be better than they than they are, but can't guard anybody. Last team is Miami. So the Butler thing is this is about as bad of a player team situations we've had in a while.

It's also the NBA I grew up with, where stars would just get mad at teams, stars miss planes, you know, even data going into the 2000. This would happen with people like Vince Carter. I don't know what his trade value is anymore, and I don't think you probably do either. I don't know what he's worth. I can't decide because he can opt in next year.

He's such a headache. He's 35. You know, they have to trade him. Why am I offering anything for him?

And he also hasn't done anything since game 2 of the East finals against the Celtics 2 years ago in 2023. Like, he was inefficient the rest of that series, inefficient against Denver. He's mistimed the last 2 years for, you know, suspensions, for being a malcontent, for injuries, for age. I I don't know, like, what he's actually worth at this point for all those reasons. So I I don't even know if I'd wanna trade for him if I'm the Suns.

I get the appeal. He's better than Bradley Beal. If you're gonna you're obviously, they're gonna continue trying

to build the job. You're doing that.

Yes. If it's Bradley Beal, you're doing that.

Bradley Beal for Butler straight up, which would be just an insane trade for Miami to make. I don't know why they would take on an extra year to grab the Beal.

But that's why you have, like, all these rumors trickling out about how it could be a 4 or 5 team trade. Because it's like somebody else would be taking Beal on this situation, and,

I I figured out what that trade would be. This wasn't 1 of my favorite trades.

I got 1 too for, for this 1. I I wanna Well, you'll figure up with the same thing.

The the part that has to be true is, a, Beal would wanna waive his no trade clause to go to Milwaukee, which I find hard to believe. B, Milwaukee would want Bradley Beal for this year and the next 2. So that you just have to, like, assume that that might be true. I don't think it is.

Doesn't have to be the Bucks for Beal.

Doesn't have to be just the the trade I came up with was Butler and the Suns, Beal to the Bucks. Miami gets Khris Middleton, Steven Adams from Houston, and Cam Whitmore from Houston, and Houston gets Brook Lopez. Brokeback works.

Houston will be taking on

yeah. 7, 8,000,000 to turn Adams and Whitmore into Lopez, basically. And then all the contracts work

Bucks just get Beal?

Bucks just get Beal. That's it.

See, I'm saying no if I'm the Bucks. I'm I'm I

think I am too.

Yeah. Yeah.

But I think when people talk about 4 teamers, 5 teamers, it's a trade like that, and I think a team like Houston has to be involved getting turning Adams and 1 of their, you you know, younger, cheaper assets in a a better center.

Here's what I got for the Jimmy Butler 5 way deal. I got Suns

get Butler. 5 way?

5 way. Suns get Butler. Heat get Khris Middleton and Pat Connaughton. Okay. Bulls get Bradley Beal.

Bucks get Zach LaBean. And then the Pistons take Bobby Portis into their cap space. And then you distribute some picks to the teams that should get them, like, the Bulls for taking Beal instead of LaVine. But that would be the players that work salary wise. And so you got Beal, maybe he'd waive his no trade clause, get reunited with his college coach, Billy Donovan, you know, store his career there.

Who knows what his logic would be going there? But I don't think there's many teams that Beal would waive his no trade clause for. And I thought it was very, very interesting that Mark Bartelstein, his agent, came out again publicly tonight. It's the 2nd time he's spoken publicly about Beal, and he listed a bunch of teams, the Lakers, the Bucks, the the Heat, all these teams he's not waiving his no trade clause for. The Bulls weren't mentioned.

So that might be because the bulls aren't a team that a lot of people are talking about publicly in this whole scenario, but you do have the other stuff reported, earlier on Thursday about the bucks looking at Zach LaVine. I don't think the bucks would want Beal either. He's not necessarily an upgrade over this diminished version of Khris Middleton, but Zach LaVine damn well is an upgrade over what you have in Middleton right now. So maybe Beal to the Bulls is something that could make sense there, which is why I've came up with those 5 teams. And the Pistons is the 5th team.

You could put other teams there, but they're the 1 with cap space, so it's just easy.

That's good work, KFC. Here's he would be my, my counter. Why would I don't understand why the Bulls have to get rid of Zach O'Mearn. He's played really well this year. I actually think he's an asset.

I I will keep him. We did the ringer 100. I had him, like, in the thirties. I I've watched him single handedly beat, like, the Knicks, the Celtics. Like, he's the better the competition is, the more he goes up a level.

If I was Milwaukee, and I could turn Khris Middleton another contract into Zach LaVine. I'm doing that in 5 seconds. Well, and I'm the Suns. Way better than Bradley Beal. He and plus he plays.

Yes. If I'm the Suns, I'd probably rather get Zach LaVine than Jimmy Butler. I think you're right. I mean, I'd like, Jimmy Butler, obviously, has proven it in the playoffs. He was younger at that time.

Zach LaVine also has not been in those situations, but if you remove last year when he was out for the season with a foot injury, he's been awesome since 2020. Been awesome. And he has

and this year, he has the ball a lot, which is, like, for the Lakers, he makes no sense because he's not gonna have the ball nearly as much, and he can't play defense. Right? So Mhmm. If you're trading for him, it has to be a situate like, the Rockets won't do it, but he's somebody that makes a ton of sense for me if I'm the Rockets even though he'd hurt a little defensively. He's somebody in the last 5 minutes of a game can actually, like, match baskets with whoever the best player in the other team is.

I think that's his superpower. Not a lot of guys like, the Suns don't necessarily need that. Right? But if you're talking about the Bucks, we already have Damon Giannis, but you're improving the Middleton spot with him, basically, the way Middleton's been playing this year. Like, I think about it.

I like I I we're we're aligned though. I think LaVine's been good. I I hate seeing him get thrown into these trades like he's not an asset. I think he's an asset.

It it makes no sense. I mean, I just pulled up some numbers prior to the recording, Bill, just just because, like, with LaVine, a lot of people still think he's, like, some diminished asset. But 4 of the last 5 years, if we remove last season, 45% on catch and shoot threes, 37% on dribble jumper threes, 45% on mid range jumpers, 63% on unassisted shots at the rim. He's caught 26 lob dunks. That's the 4th most of all guards in the NBA.

So he's versatile. We know he's a great athlete. He's a an elite shooter off the dribble and off the catch. He's versatile with how he gets to those shots, screens, and handoffs, pick and roll. He can shoot from midrange.

He can do a lot for your offense and fit into different roles at this point. So just like I I just forget about last year. He's been injury prone, but last year was the only year where it actually affected his performance ever since 2020. So to me, if the I'm the if I'm the bulls, I'd be happy to keep them. I know that creates some roster trade issues with Kobe White and all that.

Maybe you end up flipping him instead, but Kobe White's also on a value contract. But LaVine's been awesome, dude. I I just I can't I I can't understand why he's still viewed as some horrible asset at this point.

The only reason to trade him is if you feel like your team doctors who've spent a lot of time with them are, like, so high right now. This is this is this is it. He's gonna get hurt in 2 months. That's the only reason.

Maybe you do. Maybe maybe that's what it ends up being. Like, if the Lakers say we'll give you 2 unprotected firsts, if if the Suns say we'll give you Bradley Beal and 222 or 3 first that we just received in that really interesting deal with the Jazz I

would keep him. I think he's gonna be worth more, especially, like, next year, there'll only be 2 years left on this deal. Yeah. They're gonna be a play in team unless Philly can catch them. And I wouldn't wanna play that game in a winner takes all that team in a winner take all where all of a sudden it's a tie game with 5 minutes left and Zach O'Vine is doing some of the stuff we've seen him do this year.

Alright. We're aligned on that. We're gonna take a break. We're gonna come back. Fake trade time.

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Alright. I have some fake trades that I don't think will happen, but I thought it would be fun to throw at you. And then I wanna hit a couple that I do think could happen, should happen, probably won't happen, but at least are realistic. Trade number 1. Bradley Beal for Paul George straight up.

Who says no?

Bradley Beal says no.

Bradley Beal says no. That's

right. He

alright. Let's say he didn't have no trade clause.

Okay.

So Bradley Beal has 2 years left after this year. Paul George has 3. The sixers called Phoenix and said, we'll give you Paul George right now for Beal. And the the Suns are like, really? Okay.

Well, we have and they decide to do it. Beal has that connection with Embiid. Remember Embiid was pushing for him a couple years ago. Yeah. Sure.

Mhmm. I think Phoenix blinks faster with a no than Philly in that trade.

I I think both say no in the end. Right. Philly need Philly needs that big wing. They have enough guards. They have, you know, Maxey.

McCain's out for the year, but they still have them.

So you think they say no faster?

I think Philly says no faster, but both end up saying no.

I think Phoenix says no faster, but who knows? Alright. Next 1. 3 teamer. Hell, this is Miami gets Kevin Durant.

Philly gets Jimmy Butler. Phoenix gets Joel Embiid and a 2029 fir and Philly gets a 2029 first. Philly's just out of the Embiid business. They turn Embiid and it's 2,029 first from Miami into, Jimmy Butler, and they're just out. Never gonna happen.

Philly says no. Philly's like, no. You you can't give up on it. It leads me

to this question. Would Philly ever consider trading Embiid? A. B, would anyone consider trading for Embiid when he plays 40 games a year max? Is he untradeable?

Is he tradable? I have no idea.

I think Embiid I think sick the sixers would consider trading Embiid this summer. Right now, today, I don't think they would. I just don't think you can today. But this summer, absolutely, you could. He starts a whole new contract, $59,000,000 next season.

And then then 64 and then 69 the next 3 years. Gary and

Gary both of them. Harris who also owns Washington who's playing for the NFC title on Sunday, and he gets, like, a call about sixers. And he's just like, I don't even care. Like, just whatever. Just just don't make any trades.

Like, I I'll deal with that this summer. I just care about football. That's it. Sixers are a loss. Get them out of here.

By the way, that you know, Bob Myers helped Washington with the football team. Right? He was on that advisory committee, and he and and I just feel like he's looming with the Sixers thing, and I don't think I'm alone. There's been some Bob Myers Philly buzz that I think has been building because I think he had a good experience with Josh Harris. Have you heard the same?

Very interesting. No. I I the only thing I heard of Bob Myers is that the Sonics could be a team when they expand. And when the whenever the NBA is gonna do that.

I think Bob Myers is lurking in general.

There.

But I I would not If if there is a fall guy, which we talked about earlier, it's gonna be Nick Nurse and Daryl Morey. Unfortunately,

it could be both.

The fact that Bob Myers is yeah. Maybe it's both. 1 thing that Bob Myers does builds the culture. That's what he was famous for, the warriors, and you bring him into Philly. So if it gets really bad, I'd I just wouldn't be surprised.

Alright. So

we both Bob a Bill, is Bob a tear down tear down guy? Like, if he did get hired by the sixers, was he somebody to reset things, or would he try

to make a move

on the beat?

I think he's a how do we get this to a better place all the way around guy before we decide to blow this up would be my guess.

Thinking too. Yeah.

Okay. So we both think Embiid, nothing happens until this summer. I think more because the rest of the league would be like, yeah. Cool. Indeed, no thanks.

3rd trade. Do we think Brandon Ingram has any value?

Not really.

Very little. Making, like, 33, something like that, but it's expiring.

I think the value is New Orleans takes back a contract with another year on it and you get a pick as well. But Ingram himself, the the the injuries, the iffy production, not a lot of value, and just not a lot of time left on his contract for that matter either.

If you're Detroit, would you rather have Ingram for 1 year or Tobias Harris for 2?

I'm liking it with Tobias Harris. I don't think I'd wanna screw up that chemistry right now.

Yeah. I think that's the right answer. Alright. So I'm gonna get rid of them in that trade, and I'm gonna knock it down to is there something with San Antonio and McCollum? Sorry, CJ.

I threw you into a trade. McCollum. Santonio has Trey Jones expiring. Zach Collins, this year, next year, like, 16,000,000. They have a little wiggle room where they could actually make a trade and take a bigger salary back.

So there's ways to finagle it where they're basically just giving up an expiring Collins who is a guy next year they could give up. They have a 1,000,000 picks. I wanna see the Spurs add 1 or 2 guys, and that's gonna be a recurring theme for the rest of my fake trades. There's another version of this where it could be McCollum and Ingram together, going from New Orleans to San Antonio, and then New Orleans gets Jones, Collins, Harrison Barnes expiring, and at least 12,025 first. I wanna see San Antonio do something.

When be exact, if you have a top 7 player, you can't pretend you don't have a top 7 player. If you have tradable stuff and a 1000000 picks, like, what's wrong with with at least tweaking it and going forward a little bit?

Is it possible you don't wanna be too good too soon?

Why?

For the 1st? I mean, what's wrong with having, you know, another lottery pick this year? In a in a draft where you could take Cooper Flagg if you end up getting lucky with those 5 or 6% chance with your lottery odds.

There's was it there it's impossible to go under 500 in Wimby. What's their record now?

19 and 20 2.

22. Alright.

So 10th best odds, 3% chance at the number 1 pick, which is unlikely.

But So you're saying there's right now, there's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. 7 teams they're definitely not catching from a loss standpoint, plus Philly.

I mean, I'd like to see them add 2 for for the right pieces. McCollum, point guard in his thirties. I'm I'm I'm iffy there, and I don't love the Ingram fit with

Okay. So you wouldn't do anything. That's why I put it in the No. I'm not sure I would do this camp.

I I I wanna do that. There's other stuff I think I would do if I'm the spurs, but I wouldn't do that.

Okay. Well, I have another Spurs trade for you. Okay. This will never happen. I just wanna none of the these 4 trades I did, none of them are happening.

Just just just a fun exercise.

I'd think about Zion. That'd be fun.

Well, Zion is coming later. Okay. This is the official blow it up trade for Philly where San Antonio gets Paul George, Kyle Lowry, and Tyrese Maxey. Oh, wow. Philly gets Barnes, Zach Collins, Jones, Kelvin Johnson, CP 3, and a slew of first.

Like, just the San Antonio, like, 6 first, 7 first, whatever you do. And, basically, Philly just gets out of this whole thing. They do the super tank, and they sell high on Maxi knowing they have McCain. This will never happen. I just wanna do it as a thought experiment.

Maxey Wenby, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about.

Yeah. San Antonio overpays. They pay a 140¢ on the dollar, a 170¢ on the dollar with all the extra picks they have just with the endgame being Maxey, Castle, Wenby, Vassell, and this is our team going forward. It'll never happen. You kinda like this 1.

Yeah. I love it. Yeah. I mean, I'm into it. It's kinda like the same reason why I like to read Shepard for them in the draft because I want that shooting, smaller, quick guard, speedy guy to pair with Victor.

I I mean, I know the Chris Paul stuff is working. I get it. It looks good. 40. But he moves so slow.

He Yeah. Can't get into the paint anymore. And I I I think Wendy should be getting a lot more lob opportunities than he's been able to, but that's because Chris Paul is very slow, slow, and he's not able to beat guys off the dribble and defense because defenses can just switch. You wouldn't be able to do that as much if it's Maxey or somebody like that.

You you would would you still have Shepard over Castle with that pick?

I think so. I think so.

Really? I love Castle.

I'm I'm all in on

that, dude.

I mean, it was so close for me between those guys. I think I had it, Shepard, Castle, Clinging. It was, you know, it's a lot of money.

1 in a redraft now? Just throw all the teams out. Who do you think the best asset is?

I don't know if I'd change that right at this point right now. I think I'd keep keep those 3.

Was it Reid Sheppard's 49 point performance in the g league that won you over?

Yeah. Yeah. Why did he he

has been better in Houston.

I just think it's a lack of playing time. They just have too many guys.

Yeah. I

mean, who's he gonna

go over the phone? Stock. I haven't sold an ounce of Reed Shepherd stock, but I love Castle.

Yeah. Castle Castle is awesome.

I would take Castle first heading into the draft. I would take him first now. I love how competitive he is. I feel like he's getting better. I think physically in, like, 4 years, I think he's just gonna be, like, just a beast.

I I can't wait to see how he grows.

If they like, let's say they got that Maxi Diehl or whoever the the small guard is. Castle can be, like, your Iguodala type to, like, Stephen Curry. Oh, yeah. He does he does everything for your team. He can defend every position, cut, spot up, screen, sometimes run pick and roll, handle the offense for you.

The Castle is just like a total true Swiss army knife Yeah. To that roster. I I don't know. I love him. He's perfect with Victor, perfect for the Spurs.

They're gonna

luck out at some point. There's gonna be a team going sideways that wants to rebuild and trades their expensive point guard. You know, could it 3 weeks ago, you could have said maybe it's Sacramento, but they kinda righted the ship a little bit. But at some point, there's gonna be somebody with some leverage and a team that is ready to, to blow it up. Anyway, that trade's never happening, so don't aggregate it.

Did you have a fake trade that's never happening, but you still were enchanted by it?

Let's see on my list. I mean, I think most of mine, maybe, you could say there's a chance. So none none of them, I would say, are super crazy.

Put them in the year saying a chance. Alright. Let's move into trades we could actually see happening even though if they probably won. I'll get you. What's your first 1?

Alright. First 1, Orlando Magic, Anthony Simons to the Magic for Cole Anthony, Jett Howard, and 1 first round pick going to the Blazers. So you upgrade over Cole Anthony with Anthony Simons, younger guy as well, that still fits the the roster for you moving forward in Orlando. And Portland gets Jett Howard, maybe he turns into something, a future pick, and they get some salary relief as well since you're gonna have Cole Anthony, Jed Howard, and pieces rather than that big Simons deal in the $25,000,000 range.

And Simons has some Orlando connections,

I think. He's from Florida. Yeah.

There's always he's always been rumored in a as a possible magic thing.

And for Portland, it's all like, a all in you know, let's get a full look at Scoot. Scoot's been better as of late. He showed signs of life.

Woah. So so that's part

of it. That's part

of it. Of life. Alright. Yes. There's been life.

That's part of it for Portland here. It's like you have Simons who's taking a lot of those touches. He's absorbing a lot of those minutes. Cole Anthony, great chemistry chemistry guy for the Magic. That's 1 reason why you wouldn't wanna move him, but he could be that in Portland too.

He could be the backup spark plug point guard. Simons is actually deserving of a bigger role. So I think he could get that with the magic that he can't get with Portland because you still need to invest in Scoot if you're the Blazers despite all the ups and downs.

I think what we've seen the last 5, 6 games, which I've been monitoring very closely, was the mushroom. And plus the Billups quotes too. Billups seems like really fired up about him all of a sudden. But stuff's clicking. Things are happening.

They're starting to move the team toward him. They're also in the tanking situation, so it's perfect. Just let him make his mistakes, but I'm with you. They probably Simon's probably needs to go for the scoop piece. I don't know what he's worth.

So if you're saying, like, Orlando gives up a first, that's gonna be a bottom half of the first round first unless it's this year's draft because their record isn't as nearly as good as it would have been because of all the injuries. So they have they own their own first the next 6 years. I would probably want this year's first from them if I traded Simon's.

Yeah. I think

so too. Going forward, they're probably gonna be a top 8 or 19. So alright. That's a fun 1. My first 1.

I wanna get Cam Johnson who's been floated around a lot, and Brooklyn clearly wants to trade him. I've decided Detroit should be the team that gets him. And Detroit has the Tim Hardaway expiring. They have a weird situation with their pick because New York owns their pick. So it's, like, protected, and then it just keeps rolling over, but then you can't trade 2,025 or 26 because eventually it'll be realized in 27.

So I was thinking, I wonder how the Knicks would help them out and remove the protections from the pick so that Detroit could trade this year's pick, try to get Cam Johnson and maybe that other Knicks pick. Then I started thinking, you don't see teams do this as much, but what if the Knicks traded Mitchell Robinson to Detroit as part of the deal? And as part of the deal, they got this giant trade exception, and they forfeited their rights to the Detroit first. And they got Deron Sharp back from, from the Nets. And they just got a backup center making $10,000,000 less than Robinson.

Then the Nets would beg, we'll give you D'Angelo Russell too. He's available, and the Knicks are going, no thanks. But is there something there where it could be a 3 team or not a 2? The Knicks could get something out of it, cut some salary, create an exception. Maybe it's just Cam Johnson for Tim Hardaway in a pick, and it's a later pick.

But do you is there something there? Because I feel like there is. I would like the Pistons. I wanna see them get better.

I mean, it's complicated. So, like, I I would can't would I'm just trying to figure out the salaries here. So Mitchell Robinson, to be clear, he's

going to He's 14,000,000. Detroit could actually take it because

To Detroit.

Because they're way

under the cap. Right? Well, they yeah. No. Yeah.

No. They they have the cap. Yeah. Well, if they're dating Cam Johnson, they won't be under the cap, though.

I did it in the trade machine, and it all worked because, there's trade exception stuff too. Anyway, it could just be Cam Johnson and Hardaway in a pick, and we make we could make it easier because that works too.

But this is something I mean, the regardless of the the surrounding pieces, the idea of Cam Johnson on the Pistons makes a lot of sense. I mean, that's

better Tim Hardaway, basically.

That that's the type of guy they should be going for for sure. Like, if it's a if it's an easier deal to make, then then maybe. But, like, I don't know about all the other pieces, but Cam Johnson of the Pistons, yes, please. Like, that's a good idea.

I made it too complicated, but Yes.

Like, just simply that idea I like. Yes.

I if I were the Knicks, I'd be thinking of a way to dump Mitchell Robinson in a trade

would too.

And get a cheaper big back and try to get some cap space, some apron relief, some luxury tax relief, and some flexibility with some sort of trade exception would be my dream scenario.

I have a Mitchell Robinson trade in part for that reason. I got the Knicks and the Jazz.

I got

Mitchell Robinson, Deuce McBride who had pinned me to trade, and Precious Nachua for Colin Sexton, Walker Kessler, and a salary filler in Sfeedback High Luke. So in this case, you'd be you'd you would do this deal if you're the Knicks knowing that Mitchell Robinson may not be coming back for the entire season. And so you get Walker Kessler back to fill a similar rule. You get Colin Sexton as an upgrade over Deuce McBride. I love Deuce.

I think Deuce is better than Tom Thibodeau. I mean, Tom Thibodeau barely plays them, though. He barely plays any of the guys off the bench. So I maybe you don't even make this deal for that reason knowing Tibbs is gonna have Walker Kessel playing 8 minutes a game and Sexton playing 15. But but maybe he would play some of those guys more.

But so I think if you're the Knicks, something along those lines, I'd be wanting to get another center because as much as I really like Precious A Chua, I want a true 5. I want another true rim protector next to Kat because what they've been doing lately in the lineups have worked well, but they've barely played Kat with Achua. Yeah. It's worked when they have. It's been really successful for that team, but I wanna see somebody that allows Kat to be in that role.

He was next to Go Bear in Minnesota. I know Chua doesn't offer the room protection that, say, Walker Kessler could. So maybe I've made that deal too complicated and you trim it down to

the other day. Trying to do with it, though. I just They did. I'm Utah.

Out of 5.

Why do I have to trade Kessler if I'm Utah? It's what I keep coming back to every time I see his name in Trade Rumors.

I mean, it's that's the case with a lot of guys. Like, what? Trading this guy.

Yeah. I'm sure you do want him. He's a young guy in a super cheap contract, and and he produces, and he protects the rim. Why do I have to trade him? Like, they're probably I would assume they're gonna try to be good next year or try to be better.

How many years in a row can you throw away? Yeah. There's something there. I I think the Knicks have to think that way. How can they Well, package

stuff. They gotta get go get BYU's AJ Devonsa. 1 more year of being crappy.

Oh, you think they're throwing away

another 1? 1 more year. Just 1 more if you're the Jazz.

That's the gist.

And and and also, next year's class has more than just AJ too. Next year's class, you get the Boozers. You got Kareem Lopez who's dominating in the NBA right now, is 17 years old in a men's league. So there's a lot of guys in next year's class that could be, you know, number 1 quality pick. So I think it's 1 more year for Utah.

Where where is the bands in the Brooklyn in the Brockton rankings right now?

It's gotta be number 1.

Haggar's no. Haggar's gotta be 1.

Right? Oh 0, I mean, right. Today, like, currently. All time. Yeah.

It's rising. It's the top

All time. Yes. The bounce is gonna prove it.

Marciano from Brooklyn Brockton? Yeah.

Yeah. Over my shoulder, these 2 bobbleheads. Like, Marvin Hagre, I'm

not sure. Are 1 too.

Yeah. Yeah. All time. Yeah. They're 1 too without a doubt.

I need to take a break before I throw this next straight at you, so we're taking a quick break. Alright. Coming back. I'm glad you're sitting down. Take a deep breath.

What if San Antonio traded for Jordan Poole and Jonas Balanchinos and gave up Jones and Collins and a 1st round pick, and kinda dabbled in getting better, but didn't really do it and didn't really give up anything. And if you're watched and you're like, this is great. Now we got rid of the 1 guy who can actually win games for us. We got rid of a center that keeps getting mentioned in these trade. We we we know what happens with these centers.

They always end up going for 2nd round picks. Nobody gives up a 1st round pick for the $9,000,000 pretty good center. But if you're San Antonio and you could add just Jordan Poole and Balanchunas for nothing, like, basically nothing, why wouldn't you do that?

So with Jordan Poole, Bill Yeah. Let's hear it. Throughout throughout throughout his entire basketball life, he's been a near 90% guy from the free throw line. He's had touch near the basket on floaters, but he's never been a consistent 3 point shooter until this season. 25 years old, over 40% from 3 for the first time in his entire career after he was a below 34% guy.

What if this is the new Jordan Poole? What if What if he figured

out 2022 finals, Jordan Poole is really Jordan Poole, and Draymond Green just punched it out of him for 2 years. Mhmm. I think he's worth taking our it's this year and the next 2 on his contract. He's

Yes.

Overpaid. There's no question. But if you're San Antonio, what do you care? You're not spending that much money anyway.

And for Poole, like, it's not like, you have him till he's 27, 28 years old.

Yeah.

So it it's not a long term I

could've just been legitimately good this year. I actually like watching them on the Wizards this year. Right?

I know. The the Wizards went from 1 of the worst watches in the league last year too. Oh, wait a minute. They're pretty fun. There's there's some like, Poole's been really good.

Alex Sarra's getting better. They've been a fun team to watch.

Well, you can tell who's not watching the Wizards when people are like, what if they can get Kyle Kuzma? And it's like, you obviously haven't watched the Wizards game this year. It's been 1 of the worst parts of the league.

Kuzma. Kuzma has not been good. But but Poole, I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued because for a long

time, that's Paul. This 1. This might be the first 1 we've fully agreed on.

I like this 1 because Poole is the type of guy that I think is worth a swing. Like, for the for the Spurs, These guys, I don't wanna get when they first drafted Wendy Bill, I was thinking, oh, they should accelerate. They should go after Brook Lopez and have another big. They should go after a veteran and really support Victor and be good right away. I've backed off that the last year and a half.

I want them instead to take these short term guys who are swings. I'd be open to Zion, Jordan pool types, guys like that who help you may be competitive, but you're not having to overspend all of your future assets. Because the time you're gonna be really wanting to trade in those assets, like the 2 future picks you got from Minnesota, the picks you have from the hawks, that's gonna be in the next 2, 3, 4 years in that range when Victor's into his mid twenties. That's when it's time to go build and try to go forward and take those really big swings on proven guys.

At this point you wanna be but I still think you wanna be competitive in a real way now, which is what Preston did with OKC the last couple years. Right? He's You He and it just because he lucked out in a bunch of different ways by his skill as a GM, but also, like, guys blossoming maybe faster than he thought. But all that stuff was good for them. Those those games that OKC played the last 2 years led to this year.

I think if you're San Antonio, you wanna start thinking that way. Totally. Can this year and next year lead to 2 years from now, we're a 60 win team.

And and they are competitive. They're just slightly below 500. They're really great when Victor's on the floor.

So they have to end of games. They they have the same problem Houston has where the it's you know, if he's not getting the ball in the right spots, it's really or Vassell is really the only other 1 I kinda trust with the ball. CP is too old now.

And Vassell's been disappointing this season.

No. He has.

But, I

mean, I

at least

I feel like he can get the shot that he wants. I don't know if it's going in. But it's really hard for them to create offense down the stretch.

And and Jordan Poole no issues creating

Jordan Poole no issues. I Yeah. It's alright. So we're aligned on that 1. I would love to see them do

I like it. I'm into it. That's a good creative idea. I hadn't thought about Jordan Poole as a target for the for the Spurs. That's a good 1.

Do your Zion 1. You must have a Zion to the Spurs 1.

I I I don't I don't have a Zion to the Spurs 1. I was just intrigued by the idea after you mentioned the Pelicans trades.

I'm all I'm all in. I mean, there's multiple ways that could go. I don't know how many picks would have to be involved, but I think putting Zion I talked about this couple weeks ago. Rolling the dice with Zion, with that team, with the spotlight of being 1 b's teammate, different organization, lot of history, titles, Tim Duncan sitting there courtside every once in a while, I would just do it. Can I give you a 3 way of just kind of it's like a Yankee swap in Christmas?

Sure. Milwaukee gets Tobias Harris, making $25,300,000 this year on on the books for next year too. Minnesota gets Khris Middleton, 31,700,000. Detroit gets Julius Randle, 33,100,000. This actually works in the trade machine.

So Detroit's taking almost $8,000,000 extra salary to, quote, unquote upgrade from Harris to Randle, maybe for this year, maybe this year, and next year if he opts in. Minnesota's saving a little money and getting rid of the Julius Randle issue that's kinda haunted them all season even though I think he's a good basketball player, just doesn't make sense for them. So they would save 1,600,000, which with the tax becomes, like, 20,000,000 or some crazy number. And just kinda people passing stuff around. I kinda like it.

Then and Milwaukee's saving money. But I kinda like the idea of Randall on Detroit because even Monday, everyone was going nuts about Cade. Cade had 10 turnovers in that game. He has the ball all the time. You know?

He kinda needs 1 more person.

You know? Want ran I don't want Randall on Detroit.

So you don't want Randle anywhere. Is there a team you want Randle? Brooklyn. So you think he's become a good stats bad team guy?

Yeah. That I think that's exactly what he is. And I mean, it's crazy to say that about a dude who was 2 time all NBA, and he's had some really good seasons, but he's just been horrible for Minnesota this year. And he's also had times where he's horrible for the Knicks. And so you have this really good thing going right now with the Pistons.

I know Cade's not perfect yet, but I don't want Randall clog in the lane for Cade when things are finally opening up for him, and he's looking like a borderline all NBA guy. But why do you look at some of the other teams, though? I'm just curious.

I like saving money if I'm Milwaukee, and I like saving a little money if I'm min Minnesota and getting rid of the Randall piece. And for Detroit, I think the bet would just be Randall was 24 and 10 and was an all NBA forward, you know, a couple times for the Knicks and got put in 1 of the worst possible situations in Minnesota for him as a basketball player where it just doesn't make sense. Maybe there's an actual asset here.

Or is that in part his fault that it's not working perfectly?

Oh, it's definitely partly his fault because he doesn't know how to play any other way. But that that's the thing. It's like, well, maybe on a different team, there's something more here. I would think about it. But I also think Detroit probably has better moves.

Like, I I like Cam Johnson for them more than Randall, but I Randall's not Oh, sure.

To me,

he's not a sunk cost. Like, Beal is a sunk cost to me. I don't see a scenario where he's worth that money ever again. Randall, I'm not positive. So I I've Nick, I'm sure you do too.

I know some Knicks fans who still swear by Randle and were like, guy's getting a bad rap. He was really good for us. I read those people are out there. Then there's other Knicks fans who can't stand them. Give me a trade.

Alright. I got a small 1. This is a Suns 1. Use of Nurkic. And 1 of the first you got in that Utah deal to the blazers for Robert Williams.

Send Nurk back to Portland, get time Lord, obviously injury prone, but he's a lob guy fits the Nick Richards profile

Or if he makes way less money money than Nurkage.

Yes. So you're saving money and you're getting a guy who

fits your roster. Probably has to throw something else in there to make this salary.

Work work work salary wise. Nurkage for Williams. So yep. It does.

I I mean, I would do it just to get off the Nurkic money next year and save the luxury tax. Nurkic is I don't know if he's not the worst contract in the league, but when you think about he's 1 of the most untradeable, I think.

Yeah. 2 years.

Yeah. It was hilarious earlier in the year when the Suns fans were thinking that they could turn Nurkic into Vucevic somehow. It's like, what planet are you on? Nurkic has been awful. Nobody wants Nurkic.

And now they traded for Nick Richards, and he doesn't play at all. So, I would do that for both teams because Nurkic had the only thing is if you're trading a center if if I'm Portland, do I wanna get a center back? Is it worth it just to get a random pick? Is there a way to make that a 3 way deal where Nurkic goes somewhere else?

Maybe Nurkic comes off the bench for you behind Clinging. You know, something like that. You know? But then you have the 8 in issue as well. But I I wanna see them go with too big sometimes.

I'd like to see them try that out more often. I don't know if I think Billups is resistant to doing that, but at least Nurkesh is a guy he's, you know, he's a vet. Maybe he plays a little bit off the bench for you, but, being back in Portland, maybe he won't pout like he is in Phoenix right now.

Is Ayton a trade piece to you in any way?

I don't think so.

So he's another 1. I I agree with you.

He's been productive, but who's trading for him at 30 plus $1,000,000? So many teams have fives right now. I don't think there's many teams out there that would want a 5 making his money with how inconsistent he is. Yeah. I I don't I don't know the team.

Not sure. New Orleans made sense a little bit before the season, but, not so much right now.

Yeah. That they're 12 and 32.

Yes. They're they're the only team that I really had thought of before the season. At this point, I I don't see something there for him.

I have 1 more big trade, so give me 1 more from you before I do my big 1.

Let's see. I got I got 1 right here. I got a Cam Johnson 1. I mentioned this on my my podcast with Bobby Marks earlier in the week, and he was iffy on it. So I'm curious about your thoughts.

Cam Johnson to the calves for Isaac O'Coro rookie, Jalen Tyson, N Yang's contract and their unprotected 2031 first. Bobby was iffy on it because the calves you could argue. And I think his reason is pretty sound here. You could argue the calves should try to get under the luxury tax this year to not get that clock started. So you become a team on over the tax multiple years in a row.

Once Mobley has to be reassigned and all these guys deals come up. And so Bobby was like, maybe you go the other way and try to trade a guy to get under the tax. I think that makes sense. At the same time, cam Johnson is very clearly an upgrade over Isaac Ocoro. He adds dynamic shooting ability to your team when you're on a 70 win pace.

This could be your chance to go for it. This could be the only year. Who knows what's gonna happen in the future? So I'd like the idea of at least going forward this year and trying to roll the dice with somebody like Cam Johnson adding more upside to your team.

I don't like it. And I'll tell you why. I think if that team loses in the playoffs, it's gonna be because of their inability to guard wings. Right? Cam Johnson's not helping me with that.

So if I'm using my last trade chip, and I agree. Their shooting's great. That would that always helps. But I don't think he's playing crunch time for them because now I have Garland out there and Cam Johnson. How like, if I'm playing Tatum and Brown, who's guarding Tatum and Brown if I'm playing those guys together?

So I I feel like if they if they're gonna do a trade like that and go into the major attacks, I need somebody who can potentially guard Jayson Tatum in the last 5 minutes of a game 6 in Boston. And I don't think it's Cam Johnson. That would be my count.

I don't know I don't know who it is though that you can go get. I mean, like, Isaac O'Cora is a better defender, but he also is somebody that you're gonna be helping off of on defense. It's always a, you know Right. Push pull with these guys. So for the Cavs, you have limited assets.

But what they need to do anything. They're playing really well. Like like, I guess that's my other question with them is, like, they seem like they all love playing with each other, and they're having a great season. Like, sometimes continuity is the move. Right?

Mhmm.

Yep. Sometimes it is. And sometimes you regret not trying to add another piece. It can go both ways. I think it depends.

And Cam Johnson's a good guy. I think he could fit into any locker room flawlessly. I don't think it'd be an issue. He's having a great team. Yeah.

He's been great. So I I I just think if if you're talking about, like, who defends Tatum, who defends Brown, like, it's hard to defend those guys, all these great players' bet level anyway unless you have a truly

elite easy to friend Jake Jaylen Brown lately.

Right now it is, but

what he's gonna do is Try that fall away again for the foul line. That'll be great. Yeah.

Try that 1 1 more time. Drive to the middle of the floor with your left hand again. Yeah. But but I think for the Cavs, if you're talking about that matchup issue, I mean, you do have Dean Wade who's been really good defensively for you. But even then, Dean Wade alone isn't stopping those guys.

It's having Evan Mobley Yeah. Shade over and help. It's having Jared Allen presence at at the basket. It's Donovan Mitchell helping at the nail and shading help over. Like, it's a it's more than 1 guy.

So I don't think Cam Johnson's some liability by any means. He's just an average defender, but he's definitely somebody they would pick on compared to the others. Yeah. And by the way, if you're picking on anybody, like, if it's an endgame lineup, it's Garland. It's Garland still.

No. But 2 guys I can pick on. I'm using Cam Johnson's guy to set the screen for Garland, and I it's like a a feast now.

Could be.

It's an interesting 1 because on the other hand, you could say, well, we're just gonna outscore everybody. Now we have Cam Johnson. We're scoring a 120 points a game, and we'll we'll figure out how to get some stops. I'd be really scared to do that much if I was Cleveland because it seems like 1 of the few teams we have right now that actually really likes playing with each other. Right?

How many teams when you watch these games, how many teams actually seem like they all like each other? It's less than 5. OKC.

OKC is 1. Percent.

They're the number 1 version of that.

Cleveland's I mean, obviously, 1 and 2 were both 1 seeds. That they

have all the other teams. Even though they're not playing that well, I'd put them on that list.

They they're just bored. I think Boston's bored right now.

No question. Do you have another 1? Because I have 1 big 1. Is there another 1 you wanna throw?

Go go with your big 1.

You ready for the big 1?

I got my I got my favorite ones out. Yeah.

It's a Anthony Davis trade. The thinking is we've gone as far as we can go. We've done everything we could for you, LeBron. You've been here since 2018. We won a title together.

We went and got your guy, Anthony Davis. We drafted your son and gave him a no cut contract. Every time you've pushed us to do something, we've done it, including the Russell Westbrook trade, which you've were hands off after that happened. We've taken this as far as we can go, and we're not gonna mortgage anymore of the future for this because for the first time ever, the Clippers have a better arena than us and probably a better team. And there's something cool happening with them, and there's nothing cool happening with us, and we're not gonna be held hostage by this anymore.

The story in sports, decades after decades is people trying to appease aging superstars. It never ends well. We're not gonna do it. We're gonna zag the other way. We're gonna trade Anthony Davis to the gold state warriors.

Oh, man.

And we're gonna get back your buddy, Draymond Green, Schroder's expiring, Kuminga, Jackson Davis, Golden State's 2527 first, and a 20 2,029 pick swap that's LA's call. We're cashing in. What do you think?

Are you sure this is the Lakers going the other way? Draymond's still a really good defender.

I think it's a pretty good trade. They're getting Draymond, Schroeder, Kumingo. They get to roll dice to them, Jackson Davis. And if you're the warriors, you still have enough left, and you're gonna build around Davis and Curry going down the stretch, and you could probably get creative with some other moves. It's kinda fun.

I don't think the warriors do it, but I'm intrigued.

Too many picks?

Yeah. Too many picks and

Alright. So let's just say that this year's number 1, which should be in the middle of the draft and at 27 unprotected first. So now I don't think the Lakers do it now.

You think Steph would break up? Let's say the warriors are in a position. They're no to blowing it up, no to, you know, training Steph and Draymond this summer. Right? Let's just say they're not gonna do that.

Do you think Steph would be willing to break up with Draymond in the scenario?

I think the only team that you could talk yourself into this being a realistic scenario is the Lakers. Because Draymond will get to live in Los Angeles Yep. And play with LeBron.

Draymond might want it to happen.

Draymond might be like, this sounds great. I've always wanted to be on the Lakers. Let's let's do it. I also think it's way harder to find an Anthony Davis trade that makes sense than people realize, because I see I have people in my other words, it's time to trade Davis. It's like, where?

Like, you're not trading me Houston. They can't even trade Shangguin this year. Like, it would have to be, like, this summer. Right? And at that point, LeBron's 41 and, you know, people probably know.

You go around the league, you you would have said in the past, oh, they maybe they get Karl Anthony Towns and some picks for him, but Karl Anthony Towns is playing great. You know? And you go around the league. I think it's really hard to find the right trade for him that he'd be excited about, to put him on a team that could actually win a title. Like, could it be Oklahoma City?

No. They're not mortgaging everything for for Davis when they have Shea's big contract coming up, when they gotta pay Jaylen Williams soon, they're gonna have to play Chet Holmgren soon, like, they're not trading Chet for him. So you go through all the teams, and I think it's way harder to figure out. I even was like, oh, Orlando will be a good 1. Go look at their contracts.

What's the Orlando trade? They can barely even match all the contracts to get to where AD is. So I go and say he's the only 1 that made sense.

Orlando's interesting, though. If they were to give Isaac, who's, like, 24,000,000 I'm doing this doing this off the top of my head. Cole Anthony is, like, 12, and then, like, Jet High, maybe maybe

the trade.

Yeah. Maybe that gets you there. Orlando would be interesting too. I I

The problem is, like, the way the league is now with the with the these different rules, it's really hard to make, like, a 5 for 1. Right? You need that 1 awesome $28,000,000 contract that you can put in a trade like that, and they just don't have it. So they could put, you know, they could put you said what'd you say? Cole Anthony?

Something like that. I'm I'm pulling up a trade machine right now.

Yeah. I'm looking at Scott Jack.

Eyes Isaac at 25, Anthony at 12.9, and then Jet Howard I think Caldwell Pope had to be in it. Right? I'm not not sure if he has

to go. 25 this year. That is pretty high.

25. I guess that would work. Yeah. 8 80.80 is 42 $43,200,000. And then for Isaac Anthony and Jet Howard, those guys are Well, wouldn't Carter

have to be in that trade, though?

No. I mean, it wouldn't have to be, but finance wise, he wouldn't have to be. Like, you you could put him in there instead of Cole Anthony, potentially, I think.

Is Sarutti on this? No.

No. No. You you can't you can't do, Wendell Carter can, you could do Wendell Carter. No. You can't trade him

on this shirt. Or no? I can't Carter?

I don't I don't I don't I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. Seruti, pop on for a second. Let's talk this up.

What's up, guys?

You knew this was coming.

What's up, Seruti? Alright. 8 8080 for Isaac, Anthony, and Howard, and then, like, a bunch of things.

Let's put Carter in there. I think

I don't think the list You cannot you cannot you can't trade Carter. Carter cannot be traded the season. Oh, because he had the extension. Yes. So he he can't be traded.

Yeah.

What do you think, Sarudy?

I think about it. I mean, I've been 1

of the

I feel like I feel like I

feel like you when we were in Denver that we were talking about that I was, like, the king of the like, yeah. Lakers should trade AD. Like, what's the point? Like, get what you can get for him. I never even thought of this as a possibility.

I mean, it's not really what they need, but just imagine that team, like, that could that has, like, all time defensive capabilities. Like, this would be absurd. I mean, just go all in on your identity. I'd be a little bit worried about, you know, I don't know. He just the injury concerns and the age profile stuff, but it would be kinda fun.

So you'd have to do 25, 27, 29, and 31. I think you'd have to do 4 unprotected first. Probably throw in the Denver first that you have that's rolls over and then maybe a swap. Like, how many how many picks is that KOC?

That I mean, you just listed, like, a couple of songs. 6? Do you wanna give all those picks for ED?

I think I think that's where I say no. I think that's where I say no. Because, you know, is is the timeline right? Like, when in 2 years like, they're not winning these this year. Maybe next year, they could be a top 3 team.

I mean, let's see about the health situation. But, like, it it feels like they're going in completely opposite direction. So where

they can kinda pause pause button you right now?

Yeah. Go ahead. You'd have

a starting frontline of AD, Palo, and France. The timeline is, like, now when all those guys come back. I don't wanna play that team.

I don't wanna

see that team in a playoff series. The timeline is this year to do that.

I wanna do it for all those picks. Out,

you're kinda screwed. Right?

You wanna do

it for all those picks.

Yeah. I'd

be I'd be cheap there if I'm the Magic. Like, 80 is 31 right now. He's got 4 years left until he's 34, 35 years old, and he's gonna be making almost $60,000,000 the next 3 years.

KOC, this is the part where I remind you that the Knicks traded 5 first round picks for McHale Bridges.

Oh, I know. Davis is like the bar.

11th best guy in the league.

I know. That's the bar.

That's the I think it has to be 5 picks.

I think I'm saying no. I think I'm saying Wow. And just wait for something else to happen.

Because we do know but here here's the 1 thing, sir Rudy. Right? Like, what is that next thing? Because if but let's say there's a player that anytime a player that becomes available who's better than AD, it's gonna be Utah or the Thunder or the Spurs, the or the Rockets, the Nets, these teams that have more picks in quantity and quality. Like, the Magic pulling out all the way.

This summer. They'll be Shen Yun and a bunch of stuff and go get them in July.

Exactly. So all these other teams have more quantity and quality. The the Magic can't wait for that top 5 guy

to come up with their step, but they're jumping

the line and grabbing them now. Yep.

Yeah. But I'm I think I'm okay long term with, like, you know, let those guys go go big fish hunting, and we'll just make moves around the edges and kinda like because you got the 2 guys. You've got

the guys that matter. You know? Like, I I So I don't I just disagree with you. It would be a better case if you were like, I'm not sure we should trade for Anthony Davis who was super injury prone during the year that Paolo and Franz both suffered the exact same injury and Moe Bonder got hurt, and Suggs got hurt. We do not we do not wanna bring our karma to carbonate Anthony Davis.

Make sure the obliques are iced up for every

game. I know. Yeah.

Yeah. What's Anthony Davis' oblique situation? Is it okay? God.

He just didn't know him to be a player or Oblique's at all.

Like, strains it. I Orlando is the only other 1. I went through everybody else. I just you know, there's, like, Sacramento, if you could do, like, a Sabonis Davis, like that, but I don't know where that gets either team. You know?

I think it's I like Golden State.

I like the golden state 1. It just feels it feels like that's a that's a timeline match thing that that just kinda works out

in the end.

Say this. That trade I laid out, if that actually happened, would be 1 of the most fun trade moments of the 21st century. There's so much going on in that trade in all different directions that we it just feels like we would talk about that for 10 10 straight days. Thanks to Rudy.

Thanks, guys.

Thanks, Rudy. KOC, any last trades before we go?

No. That's all I had listed, Bill. The 80 1 has me thinking though. I mean, because for the Lakers, Bill, you're right. Like, I I don't think they're gonna necessarily go the other way that you're proposing, but it's something they should at least think about.

Like, this week, I made the case writing, like, the warriors should blow it up because they're not going anywhere. Steph's declining. Draymond's declining. At least they're showing signs of it this year. Reminds me of the the 2012, 13 Celtics when KG and Pierce were still really good, but but they clearly were beginning to fall a little bit and they make the deal that leads to Tatum and Brown.

And so I think the warriors are in that spot where at least the front office and ownership should be thinking about it. And for the Lakers, obviously, LeBron and, I mean, 8 LeBron's not the same guy. He's just not. He's still a great player, but he's not the same level player. And AD, who knows when the injuries will start perking back up again.

So they should think about it. I just think that Lakers roster's still worth at least exploring, adding more. But if the Magic call up and offer you 4 firsts and 2 swaps, you gotta take that meeting and really think hard about it. Because if you do that, then that opens up your ability to say, oh, guess what? We are open to LeBron trades.

And then if you were to get something for LeBron too, suddenly, you'd have the most picks in the NBA. And then you're gonna have to make

the playoffs. Contenders teams that actually have a chance to win the title or a realistic option for a 40 year old guy making 50,000,000 a year with no trade clause? I can't find a single team. Even if he said like, oh, Cleveland. He wants to come back home.

I was like, if I'm Cleveland, do I wanna that's a pretty, like, aggressive No. Reshaking of the roster. I wouldn't do that. I I wanna do

it without LeBron if I'm Cleveland.

Yeah. Well, also, like, you have such a good thing. Now you're bringing somebody who who you know, the 2 generations of guys in the league like Revere. It's really hard for him to be like, alright. Just set some picks and hit a couple corner threes for us.

Like, he's gonna have the ball. I don't know what the team is for him. So and I don't I don't I don't think he wants to leave LA anyway, so it's not realistic. Davis as a trade is more realistic to me, but, I just don't the Lakers organization, I I don't understand why they kowtow to these guys.

Maybe the Suns for LeBron, somebody like that. Short fight away from LA instead of Jimmy Butler.

But that now the Lakers are taking Beal. Like, they don't want what do you mean? I don't wanna turn LeBron into Beal. No. Thank you.

Also, like, if you're the Lakers and you trade LeBron, all of a sudden your games like, if you're gonna actually rebuild or you're gonna, like Mhmm. Blow it up or whatever. Like like, there is still people go over the games to see LeBron. He's 1 of the greatest players in the history of the league. Like, that's still a draw, and they're still in this mix where they seem relevant.

People who don't actually watch basketball that much think they're still a contender. And there's an illusion of competitiveness that is, to me, not real, but you at least have that. Once you once you start blowing this up, now you're where you were in the mid 2000 tens.

Why is that? Is that because of LeBron not being top 2, top 3 anymore? Is that why, or is that more something about the supporting cast? Like, what why do you think that is?

Well, he's, I mean, he's 40. He's not the not close to being the same guy that he used

to be. Still 1 of the 10 to 15 best guys. 80, you said 11th best or something like that. So if you still have 2 top

But Lebron doesn't play defense anymore. I don't understand how anyone could put him in the top 12 to 15 at this point when

Oh, so you don't have him up there? I don't.

I don't. I I would have him in the top 25, but I I think Wow. I think it's really hard to to beat good teams when you have multiple holes on defense like they have. I think that's a fair statement. Like, when they have they're playing Reeves and Knecht and LeBron all at the same time.

It's like you you can't play defense that way. So and I I'm not what position is the perfect position for him ideally? Right? It's the 4.

Yeah. Point

3. Really playing with him. Really, you wanna have perimeter guys and you want shooting, but that would mean LeBron would have to guard bigger guys and rebound more and and, you know, step up on that. And it just doesn't seem like he has enough in the tank to do that anymore. So they're in a weird conundrum with him because he gets his stats.

You can catch the right night. He looks great, but I I don't see it night tonight. When we get to the playoffs, it's every other game. You know? So if, like, if I was the Lakers adviser, would either of us say, like, you guys have a chance to make the finals with this team?

You're 1 move away? I don't think they are.

They're 2 moves away from at least having a chance.

Everyone's 2 moves away.

Well, exact exactly why it's difficult for them. They're 2 moves away from having a chance, and even then, they're still not the favorite. I'm still not taking them in a series against OKC or Denver. I still think they're probably a 2nd round out. Yeah.

Even even if they do get LaVine, even if they do get Kessler, but you'd have a better shot in that scenario. But I still wanna pick them for all

the reasons we're talking about. Luck with. You'd you'd need an OKC injury. You'd need something weird happen with you'd have to go down, and there would have to be a dumb thing that happened with every team. I just think And it and

it can happen that, like, the warriors had a pretty good path in 2022, and like Kurt talked about recently, and they they win it all. Like, it it it's it's not impossible to happen. So that that's what they know way. But I I do think, you know, if a team calls up for AD and makes a significant offer, they need to be thinking about that. They have to.

Who do you have in the finals right now?

Still OKC in the west, though. Denver really intrigues me. Just the way they're playing lately, like we talked about earlier with Ross stepping up and everything.

And Murray looks way better than he did 4 weeks

ago. He looks way better. He looks more like himself. And then in the and then in the east, I'm still gonna take the Celtics for now even though I think the the shooting the the shooting I'm worried about most because, like, the you know, some of the other stuff, I think they're just bored. This happens almost every December into January with them.

Yeah. But the shooting they're closer to the middle of the pack and 3 point percentage this season. I wonder if there's some tired legs there. Drew holiday has regressed as a shooter. Derek white has as of late and Jerilyn brown looks like there's just something off with him.

I worry there, but I'll still lean towards Boston right now over Cleveland that may change by the end of the season though.

Yeah, it's tough when you win the title. You go 1 or 2 ways. You can either come out the next season like a bat out of hell, or you just assume you could turn it on anytime you want. And they've they started out 1 way, and I think they've settled into the other way where it's like, we're we're fine. We're fine.

I don't like that they don't have home court in the last 2 rounds the way this is shaking out, though. Mhmm. I don't think that's nothing. You know? It's all fine until it's game 6 at home with the game 7 in the other place.

You're down 32 for the series, and you fall behind by, like, 9 in the Q2. And the fans are like, oh my god. Like, our season might we'll see. I I'd like to see them have 1 streak, KOC, because I think that's what separates the the the real teams from everybody else. Like, these teams that could just rip off 11 straight, 12 straight.

Last year, they were a 25 game winning streak threat for every month of the season. And that this year, they can't play 5 good games in a row.

Who who who worries you most besides Cleveland in the east? Still Milwaukee?

Milwaukee always because he honest. Mhmm. Orlando a little bit because of the defense. I'm still like Orlando. I'm not just saying this to make Cerritos night.

Orlando's just kinda hanging out over there with this crazy defense.

They're not beating Boston. Their their offense, their 30th and 3 points They

they haven't had 30 guys.

And I know. But they even with those guys, their their offense isn't there yet.

The defense scares me because this Celtics team can look really clumsy and really static, and the toilet bowl offense can go into full effect. And with all those guys they have, they have just guys that throw at Tatum and Brown. And I don't like the way the guards on the Celtics have played for 2 months. You know? I I get we're taping this before I go to the Quipper game tonight, and I'm going to the Laker game tomorrow, and I really wanna see it in person.

Like, are these guys do they look different athletically? Is this just a funk that's going on? So I guess we'll find out.

The Olympics may have been very bad for those guys.

Very possible.

White white and holiday having a a long off season, a long playoffs. They'd something's off with those guys. That's where my concern is as well as with those guards and the overall team shooting ability.

And the Knicks, obviously, I wouldn't look forward to seeing them in a series either because they have good basketball players. And Brunson's really good, and Towns has been playing great. So, you know, I do think when you play that team for 2 weeks, little easier to figure out. But, you know, the east is way better. Do you think last year?

It was like a walk in the park, which wasn't their fault, but that's what it was. This year, a little different. Milwaukee, we'll see if they make 1 more move too. The team they have right now, I wouldn't be afraid of, but they're 1 move away from me being more afraid. Right?

If if they were to get LaVine, they'd be

That would be scary because he kills the Celtics. That would be 1 of those that all the Celtic fans like, oh, no. They got that guy?

Well, LaVine, Giannis would be beautiful together. Like, that would be incredible. Lopez has been great this year for them too. If they if they can subtract Portis and upgrade from Middleton Yeah. I think I think they're cooking.

They get something there.

Alright. KOC, good to see you again. You can follow his podcast. Subscribe, listen to it, and you can read him on Yahoo as well. Great to see you.

Great to see you too, Bill. Have a good night.

Alright. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to KOC. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Ghahal. Don't forget.

You can watch this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And I will be back tomorrow night with yet another podcast. We're going heavy on the football tomorrow as you would probably expect. See you in 24 hours. Must be 21 plus in president select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in president DC.

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