Transcript of "Brian Cox"

Will, I'd love to do a podcast with you today, but I'm a little sore about something. I've noticed in the past, you do a fake countdown for stuff. You will stop after three, and you won't go all the way.

We've been through this before. We did it on a previous cold open.

I don't think I've ever mentioned this to you before.

Five.

It may have come up on cold open once.

Welcome to Smartless. Now, I'm going silent from four down.

Welcome to Smartless.

Smart. Lies. Smart. Lies. Smart. Lies.

How did everybody sleep? We just saw each other 10 hours ago.

Really well. Good. Oh, good. Why? Do you have a story about your sleep?

No, I was good. It was okay.

No, but- Wait, did you have a mask on last night?

No, I didn't sleep with a mask.

Oh, you don't do the hose?

No, I stopped that. It didn't really work. Don't cover your mouth when you sneeze. I'm by myself. I know, but just practice.

No, because then I just get my sleeve dirty.

Because you're going to be on camera.

It gets all over the lourd of Piana.

Beautiful, beautiful catch. Beautiful lourd of Piana. No, but I did He's going to send me this beautiful jacket.

I like them, actually. I or him or whatever. Do you? I did take a value to sleep like a couple. Look at him go. I don't know.

He's sneezing. Will, did you get into the bottom of a bag last night? Are you all out? You have somebody on their way over?

I don't even know. It must be the AC in this room or the something. Is it the AC?

You got a whole junket to get there.

When was the last time you guys saw Dawn in New York City? I tell you, it's amazing. It's just so full of promise this week.

Dawn in his van?

Yeah. I love going out for beers for breakfast.

Oh, my God.

Sean, what did you do last night?

Scotty and I. I ran the show. I have to run the line, so that took a couple hours.

Then- Then he did about a pound and a half of Slopy Joe's.

By the way, I totally had a Slopy Joe. Higher. At 10 o'clock. That's crazy.

You just said that. It's not much of a stretch or a leap for me to go to Slopy Joe.

I really did have a Slappy Joe at 10: 00. Did you put it together yourself or was it leftover from theIt was leftover. The kitchen help you have?

It was leftover. But it's funny that you say that because I remember yesterday when I was like, I'm eating lunch at 2: 00 or 2: 30. That's why I had a Slappy Joe at 10: 00.

Then what did you have at your 2: 30 late lunch?

I had another full meal. I had a fried chicken salad.

You had a chicken salad?

No, fried Fried chicken salad.

Oh, fried chicken salad. They took what? They took the lettuce and the chicken, they threw it all in the fryer? What happened? Everything gets fried in that scenario, even the bowl? Then-we call it tempura. You had the fried chicken salad.

To pour a salad.

Right, Sean, you had this Snicardoodle at 11: 30. Yeah, I did. The big one. Then you kept going in and out of the bag to keep it fresh was your logic. That's exactly right.

While you're eating it. And the fried chicken at 2: 30.

Then at 2: 30, you have the fried chicken salad with what did you drink? What was your beverage at that lunch?

Milk with every meal.

At the lunch? Yeah. At the restaurant? No, it was here. Did they look at you? Did they say, Is there a child coming to this lunch? No? It was here at home. We don't offer stuff. We don't have a kid's menu.

Yeah, but here are the crayons.

You have that at 2: 30, and then you're trying to tell us that you have the fried chicken salad, and that you had nothing else until you had the sloppy jump.

At 10: 30.

Yeah, that's true.

No dinner. Nothing. No snack.

No, nothing.

No candy. You didn't go buy the candy jar.

I don't think I did. A candy bowl.

I don't think I did. I don't think I did is a real soft way. It's an entry into, actually, what was it? Just be honest.

No, maybe I had a couple of starbursts.

A couple of starbursts. There we go. He wanted to get some plastic in there.

He needs some binding, something to bind up that sloppy Joe.

Yeah, forget about rice.

Wow.

Anyway, what?

And you're like, I can't, I can't figure it out.

I don't find it. I'm so tired all day. I don't know why.

My sleep's fucked up. It's so weird. I don't know. What do you have? Let me run you through it. None of it adds up. Let me run you through it. I'll tell you what, though, Sean, I'll tell you what does add up. The acclaim for our guest. He has been nominated for four Golden Globes. Oh, is that right? And he's won one. He's been nominated for countless SAG awards. I think seven, won a couple of those, won an Emmy, nominated five times, BAFTA has been nominated seven, eight times. One, two of those.

This is a qualified guest.

This is a very qualified guest. This is a guy who his list of performances is one of those guys that has its own page, you know what I mean? It has nothing to do with the length of time he's been on this planet, but just about the amount that people want him to be in their projects. I love that. I love him from everything.

He is- This is one of the guys you're going to say, we'll guess it.

You're going to guess if I say he is the original Dr. Hannibal Lector. He's got a brave heart. He knows a little bit about the born identity. He's also in line for succession. It is the one and only Mr. Brian Cox. No way. Good Lord.

This is a guest. This is really exciting. Hello, sir. Good morning.

Hello, Jason. Hello, Sean. Well done, Will. Hello, Johnny. Nice to see you all.

Yeah, you too. Great to see you, Brian. Plus, I should mention also, Brian, that your new film that you've directed, Glenn Rothen, releases on April 17th.

What's the name of it again?

Glen Rothen? It's called Glen Rothen. It's about a Scottish... It's about two brothers who are... They own this distillery, but the younger brother, who's played brilliantly by Allan Cumming, he's the one that was the real talent in the family. And I also play Sandy, the oldest brother, who is just a plotter. He's just a manager. That's what he does. And the other brother had a bad relationship with our father. And I actually cast my own son as my father because I wanted him to see what it was like being a father. Oh, that's wild.

That's wild.

So So we did that. And he was very good. He was very tough and very scary as well.

Brian, this can't be the first time you've directed something, is it?

No, I directed in the theater, but this was my debut as a film director.

Okay, so how did it go? What were you surprised with?

I was surprised that I made it. I don't mean I made the film that I made it through the whole shoot. It was a bit scary. And it was a very odd situation to be in because I I came from an egalitarian viewpoint. I wanted everybody to do their best work. We've all suffered at the hands of various directors over the years and their conceptions that they wanted to include us. And I just want them to fuck off, really, basically. Fuck me about with all that shit that your ego stuff and control. Some directors I really like. I've worked with some really good ones. But a lot of the time you go, the best director The best director I ever worked with unquestionably on film was Lindsay Anderson. You know the director Lindsay Anderson? Have you heard of him? No. You don't know Lindsay Anderson?

No, I just get to know it.

God Almighty, it's just appalling. You young people, what you don't know.

Click, and then you just hang up.

You live in a wonder world. I don't know.

A man or woman?

A man. Lindsay is a man. He directed a very famous... Well, he directed a series of films. The first film I ever saw was a thing called The Sporting Life. Oh, sure. I heard of that. Richard Harris. It was about a rugby team set up north, written by wonderful David Story, who was a great... Well, he's passed away now. A great writer. Yeah, it was just What made him great?

What did you like about his style?

Because he just gave you the right note. He gave you the right note. He would come up with... We would do a scene, and the play I did was with Alan Bates. Do you remember Alan Bates?

To have a good name.

Alan Bates, the actor Alan Bates. Sure. Sean, you know who the actor Alan Bates is? Yes, of course. My God, you guys need some training. You really do. Anyway, Alan Bates, who was famous in Zorba, the Greek, and he did a lot of movies, Alan. And he played my elder brother, and I played the younger brother. Lindsay would come up with... He said he would come in and go, It's good, it's good. But there's a little bit of an attitude in the scenes. Can we remove the attitude inizing and just play the scene? I mean, that's the simple thing, the simple note where you go, I see what you mean. I'm striking an attitude that I try to hold on to throughout the scene. Yes. But actually, the scene reveals itself and the attitude reveals itself. And he was the first director to understand. Now, most directors wouldn't know what the fuck he was talking about. They just don't have a fucking clue. Sorry, I wasn't being too honest.

Had Lindsay ever done any acting? Do you know?

No. He started a magazine with a guy called Gavin Lambert, called Sight and Sound, which was the big first film magazine that was made really after the war because he was at university, did postwar. It was just extraordinary. The other thing he did was a film called If. I don't know if you saw that. That was a film with Malcolm McDowell, which was set in a public school, a public school. He did a film called Oh, Lucky Man, which was the follow-up to that. So catch-up, guys. Yeah. I know. I know.

I feel like I've seen If. Wait, Brian- You're thinking of the Ryan Reynolds's John Krasinski vehicle.

I was just going to say that. Yeah, you're right.

Maybe an imaginary friend. That was a lot of fun. That was a lot of fun. Good fun. Brian, did you have... So when you ended up making your feature film debut, directorial debut, Did you find that it shifted? Did you retroactively go back and shift your opinion of directors? Did it even anything out?

I had more sympathy for them, but I still think a bunch of them are twats. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I must be too... But I think you all agree with me. I think you've all been through that as well.

It's always interesting. A director definitely needs to have a plan and I'll pardon the term, a vision and all that stuff. But when it comes to performance, you realize that they think they can control it, but it is like one of the few lanes in making something that you can't control. You can't control performance, you can't control music. Everything else you can get in there and make a decision on. But performance and music, there's stuff that happens in between action and cut that you just can't micromanage. It's got to live, it's got to breathe. And that character is the actor's character. It's not the director's character or the writer's character. You have to own it. And to be able to give the actor the latitude to really feel like it's theirs, I think that frees up a really exciting performance as opposed to trying to get them to do the version of the character you always saw in your head.

Absolutely. I've suffered under that for the last 50 years or even 60 years.

Well, you pushed through it very, very successfully. My God, the performances I've been able to watch you do, Brian, it's It's just an incredible career. Let me just say thank you.

Yeah, you have done so many. These guys know I've gone on and on about some of my favorite films.

You have one of Will's favorite quotes, too, about what is it? I'm going to paraphrase it here. I'm too old, too rich, and too famous to give a fuck.

I'm too old, too tired, and too talented to give a fuck.

It's so good. Brian, I love that so fucking much. That is really good. I just fucking love it. I love how you don't... In the best way, you don't give a shit. But I know you do about the things you do give a shit about.

Well, it's just the silly stuff. Exactly. Exactly. Well, the thing I was determined to do with the movie was to everybody give their talent. The costume department, the wardrobe department, that's the same, and the design of the film and the DP. You just want people to do their best work, not to say, do it this way. Because once you said, do it this way, you immediately put a block up for them to go, oh, I've got to do it this way. I can't do it. So I didn't do any of that. I just said, Give me what you're giving me. Tell me what you want me to do. Tell me what you want to... In the design department, tell me what you want to achieve. And therefore, one had an incredibly happy crew. Probably a terrible film, but we had a happy crew.

No, but it's a true collaboration. I mean, you hired those people for a reason because you like what they do.

You provide an environment where they feel like they can.

That's exactly right, Will. That's exactly right. And not enough of that goes on. We don't trust. We really don't trust. We don't trust nearly enough. And if somebody comes on and says, This is the design, you just say, Well, let's see what you do and do what you want to do. Do what you feel is right. And of course, you can modify and all that. But at least you're not impending them. You're not stopping them from being creative.

Wait, so for Glenn Roth, did you find the project or did the project find you? How did that happen?

Well, I didn't find the project. It's written by a guy called David Ashton. We still do radio back, would you believe I don't... You know what the radio is? Sure. Anyway, I still do radio back in the old country. I've been doing a series for 20 years, which I'd go and do for three days. It's a series about an Edinburgh Detective called McLeevy, and it's been very popular. We get about a million listeners. Wow. David wrote this. They came to me, a guy called Neil Zeiger, who's also a pal. Neil said, You're going to be directing this film. I've never directed a film. I said, What? He said, You're going to direct the film. He said, And you could be in it. I said, Oh, that's That's kind. And thank you for letting me be in it.

You can cast yourself.

Yeah. Well, it's a wonderful... There's a great comedian in Scotland called Stanley Baxter, and there's a great scene which he used to do when he played a little boy. And also his grandfather's dying and his grandfather's looking at the window and saying, Son, one day all this will be yours from the hills to the river and All that land out there. And he goes on and on and on. And the wee boy says, You know, grandpa, that's an awfully big job for one wee boy on his own.

That's good.

So that's what I was reminded of, how an awfully big job is for one wee boy on his own.

Well, it's funny you mentioned that one wee boy on his own, because I was thinking about you grew up in Dundee, got born and raised in Dundee, Scotland. And now you're a, forgive me, a world famous actor, reclaimed actor. How did you go from that to that? What was that leap from your, what I've read, a very, very humble beginning?

Oh, yeah. Well, my dad died when I was eight. And my mom had a... She was only 51. He had pancreatic cancer, and he died when I was eight. And I had three elder sisters. I was the youngest and a crazy brother who used to go off and disappear. And he was nine years older than me, and I was the baby. And my dad died, and then my mom had a series of terrible nervous breakdowns, which resulted in her having electric shock treatment, which I She lost about 60 pounds in weight. She was unrecognized. She was a little overweight to start with, but she was underweight. So I had no parents for most of my... I had my sisters, and I didn't realize it, but it was the best thing that ever happened to me. It's a tragedy, in one sense, losing your mom and losing your dad. Certainly, it was heartbroken, but I was liberated. No fucker was telling me what to do. No fucker was... No parent was giving me- How old is she?

You were eight years old when your dad passed. Eight. And then your mom, and how old were you when your mom-Well, she died much later, but my mom went into almost immediately.

She had a huge breakdown, and she was just hopeless. And also we were sending my youngest sister Actually, my youngest of my older sisters, she's twelve years older than me. And there were my two older sisters who were married, had children. They were amazing. They were just amazing what they did. But they didn't look after me, but they looked out for me, which was better than being looked after. They made sure that I was okay.

Did you find that you were making a lot of really good decisions, or did you make some bad ones and learn from those?

Well, you just learn. I made good decisions, and I made bad decisions. But at least I could get the lie of the land, what was going on.

But I imagine that Dundee, Scotland, at that time, was a tough place to grow up, yeah.

Yeah, it wasn't easy. It's a lot tougher now because we have Don't get me started. But we have... Sorry. I wanted to be more humourful on this, but I'm in there. No, no. It's your fitting right in perfect. No, what happened is that we have the highest heroin addiction in Europe in my hometown.

In your hometown? Yeah.

Because of the poverty. And it's all about poverty. And it's what makes me a socialist. Socialists, I mean, what I can't stand about this country we're in is how they confuse communism with socialism. Sure. Socialism is not communism. Socialism is social welfare, taking care of the people. Communism is a dictate. I wish Americans would understand that, what the difference is. Good luck. What a socialist It just is.

As a Canadian, let me say good luck to you trying to explain it to them, Brian.

Well, they figured it out in New York.

Well, the Canadian seem to understand it rather well.

Yeah, we've got a pretty good understanding.

I mean, no disrespect to either Jason or Sean, but Americans don't get it. No. They just don't get it.

Well, they don't understand. I don't consider myself really anything, but I do understand that we have to take care. We're only as strong as the idea. We're only as strong as our weakest link, and that there has to be a net Because once you... If there is not a a social net, then the whole thing falls apart, and it decays from underneath. If you have extreme poverty, which we do in this country, then the entire thing is resting. The foundation of our society is rotted from underneath.

Brian, growing up there, you said it wasn't as bad, but what gave you the hope or the courage to seek something better?

Well, I had two teachers. I mean, my education was a disaster. It was a technical education. I was supposed to be... I was trained to be a bricklayer, really, was what I was trained to be. I mean, I never laid a brick in my life, but that was supposed to be my destiny. And I thought, fuck that for a Game of Soldiers. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing them in that way. And I just wanted to be an actor. I wanted to be an actor since I was three. And that was my desire just to act.

Where did that come from? Did you watch a lot of TV?

We had 21 cinemas in my hometown. Wow. Wow. That's a ton. Before the war, we had 42 cinemas. But after the war, we had 21. And now there's about four. And I visited every single cinema. And where I lived, there was a right angle to where I live from up the street. There was a thing called Arthur Stone Terrace. And there was my church, the library, the Broadway cinema. And opposite of that was the Royal. And it was double features. So you're going at 6: 00 and you would get out at 11: 00. So I used to go there all the time. In fact, I'm surprised that they were alive, that they even noticed I existed in my parents, because I was in the cinema most of the time.

Was it a form of escapism? Is that what brought you into the theater initially?

No, I don't think it's escapism. It's just joy. I just got so much joy out of it. You live in Dundee, which was pretty heavy going in those days. I mean, it's a great community. I mean, that view. But the city fathers always make a balls up. They took people out of the town and they put them in these schemes, which is why they're still paying for it now. In fact, the Lord Provis said to me, We're trying to get people back into the city. I said, you should never have taken them out the city in the first fucking place. I said, that's so important. That's who they are. They're from that. And then you put them, you isolate them without any proper conditions. And Therefore, the heroine, the drugs, the whole thing just spirals out of... And this is something that really gets me more and more and more.

Yeah.

We'll be right back.

And now back to the show.

So then you have this love of cinema. You're going to the theater all the time. And then you went to, if I'm right, you went to theater school in Scotland?

I went to Lambda. Oh, you went to Lambda? Okay. Yeah. What was wonderful was there was a guy called Bill Davis. There was a series of directors at Dundee Rep. And the last guy was a Canadian called Bill Davis. Now, Bill is a director and a writer in his own mind. He lives in Vancouver. And also he's part of that, the famous Davis family who run a lot of theaters in Canada. And Bill was great. And he said he invited me. I think I was just 16, if that, anyway. Yeah, I was just 16. And he invited me to a voice class. And I'd never been to. I didn't even know what a voice class was. What's a voice class? He said, come along to voice class. And I went along and there was this... He said, we've got this young woman who's coming up from London. She's just taken over now because the previous voice teacher who was a genius died. And this lady's taken over. And I said, who is she? She says she's called Kristen Linklater. Have you heard of Kristin Linklater? No. You see? So we I don't know anything. We're smart.

I'm surprised at how really ignorant you both are, except the Canadian. I find the Canadian isn't ignorant at all. But you two guys are really deeply fucking ignorant.

You're right on the money. You're right on the money.

You sit there and wonder going, oh.

We're here to learn.

Like a little baby boy. Anyway, she was... Look up Kristener because she was... She's sadly passed away. Her son is an actor called Hamish Linklater. I don't I don't know if you've come across him. No. No, you don't know him. Jesus Christ.

What about Taylor Swift?

Anyway.

They think that you're making these names up.

I know. Wait, yes. I think the Hamish Linklater. They're actors. They resonate. Pardon?

You guys know Hamish Linklater. I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

God, the Canadian. He's so sensible. What is wrong with you two others?

My Google's faster. But I know exactly who Hamish Link letter is. Anyway, so that happens.

I go to Dundee. My first day in Dundee was a very funny day because I went up for my interview and I went up to the front of the theater and this woman in a very broad Dundee. I said, What do you want, son? I said, I'm here for an interview. He said, You can't get into the front, stay in the front. You got to go in the back to get to the front. You can get to the front, stay in the back, but you got to get to the front, stay in the front. So go in the back and then you can get to the front. I said, Okay, I went round the back. And as I walked in, there was an Almighty row, a fight going on between an actor. Now, I'm going to say an actor's name, and you probably don't even know who the fuck he is, but anyway. Here we go. He was very well known.

He was pretty good so far.

Yes, he was You've scored brilliantly. Anyway, this actor was called Nickel Williamson. Oh, yes.

Oh, Nickel. If I had a nickel.

That's great. We've struck gold at last. Anyway, so I'm this Nickel Williamson, and a voice like that, and he's not going to use money. I'm making money. That is a great impression of him. He's not going to use money. I'm making you. I'm making you. I'm trying to get past them to get up for my interview. I'm 15 and I've never been in a backstage before. So I'm getting up and I'm climbing up the stairs. I get past them, finally. I'm standing on the landing and there's a wonderful article, Dawn Granger smoking a cigarette. And he looked at me and he said, Are you all right, darling? I went, That man just called me darling. I have never been called darling before in my life. This is clearly where I must be. I have to be in this place.

That's great. Well, I have to ask you because I'm the person that always asks this, what's your favorite stage show you've ever done and what's the worst thing that's ever happened on stage in love theater?

Well, the worst thing ever happened, and actually one of my favorite shows I did was I did a show by... Do you know who Conor McPherson is? No. There you go. He's a He's a very famous Irish playwright, and he's had a few plays on Broadway. And I did a play of his called St. Nicholas, in which I played a theater critic. It was a one-man show. It was a wonderful show. Really very, very funny, very inventive. And it's about this theater critic who becomes obsessed by this actress, and he becomes obsessed by her, and he follows her. The place he's in, he gives a bad review to in Dublin. And in his persona non grata because of his terrible review, having flirt with this actress. And finally, he goes, he follows them to London, and he follows them to their home. And he nearly rapes the girl, but he doesn't. So he ends up being kicked out. And he eventually goes to work for vampires. He meets a vampire on Crystal Palace Hill. And this vampire says, If you could bring people to our house. And we like to suck blood, but we never kill.

We just only suck. We don't kill. It just sucks. It seems reasonable. And I said, That seems reasonable to me. But the idea was that he would allow me a space so I could write. And the whole point of it is the fact that he's wanting somebody to write this story. So I did this play, which was a really good play. So I one night had come on and I start the play and I look to my right and there's my ex-girlfriend.

Oh, my God.

What is she doing here? And then I carry on. And then I turn over and there on my other side was my ex-girlfriend. And they're literally sitting opposite one another. I'm completely thrown. I just said to the audience, I said, I'm sorry, ladies and gentlemen, but I'm going to have to start again. No way. Yeah. I said, I'm going to have to start again because this is I can't explain what it is, but really, just please trust me, I will be better second to...

No way. Did you see them after the show? I did.

Oh, my God. I did. What happened was after the show, they came on and they said, Oh, that was lovely. We enjoyed it. Oh, and tremendous. I said, Why were you sitting? To one of the girls, I said, Why were you sitting opposite Irina? She said, I wasn't. I said, You were. She said, Well, I never noticed. I said, Well, I noticed. You were sitting opposite her and you're sitting right opposite. I said to her, I said, Did you not? No, I never noticed. I went through agony for no reason. They had no sense.

Yeah. That was it. But that's the... Sean, It makes me think, Sean, you're about to do a one-man show. You're about to do a one-man show. Sean opens. Well, it'll be on now, I think, by the time this airs. But Sean's doing a one-man show off Broadway.

What's it called, Shani, and what theater will it be in?

It's called the Un... Thanks, you guys. It's called The Unknown, and it's at Studio Seaview, which is 43rd and eighth Avenue. But, Brian, you'll understand having to explain doing a one-man show.

I was talking to Sean as he's preparing for it this fall, and just getting off book, just learning the fucking-It's another story.

I'm still not off book totally, and it's been three months I've been working on.

You're pretty good.

Yeah, decent.

He runs the show every day. You have to, right?

Yeah. I'm scared shitless. I mean, we're recording this and I haven't opened yet. By the time this comes out, I haven't opened. So if I'm alive, I'll let you know. But isn't it hard? Send a postcard. But, Brian, the It's a one-man show thing, it's colossal, isn't it?

Yeah, it is. I remember I came on one night and a guy, I walked on and a guy came on. He opened his program and he went, and I took the program out of his hand. Threw away. I walked past him. I just took the program, I thought.

You don't need it.

It's just only.

But I mean, yeah. But isn't it... I mean, did you ever go off, go up on the line? Oh, yeah. I said in rehearsal, I was like, Can I please have the script just off stage for emergencies, if I can't remember where I'm at, I just have to... I'm just going to... There's nothing you could do. You just got to walk off.

You're just going to dip off stage and take a look.

What are you going to do? I don't know what else to do.

What about a prompter? I tell you what's great now. I mean, because I'm a considerable old age now. Well, I don't really think about that, but other people tell me I am.

No, you wear it well. Yeah.

Earpiece.

I know. But I don't know. I can't imagine somebody talking to you while you're talking.

But only if you go up, maybe only if you go up, do they then talk to you, right?

I've done the earpiece a few times. The thing about the earpiece is don't think about it as learning lines. Think about it as volition in the play that you want to keep it moving. You want to keep it moving in a certain way. Because when you get to my age and your brain isn't working in the same way, it's a little slower. But by the way, Sean, I just want to say, I saw your show in London, by the way, and I thought you were-Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, I did. I just saw it and you were absolutely brilliant. That was just an amazing show. But I do have a funny story about it. And please don't be offended by the funny story. But anyway, so I'm sitting there and I'm watching this amazing evening and I stood up and I went, Oh, Christ, because it was so extraordinary. Thank you. And the guy later on, the guy said, and she said, that was a wonderful man. I said, what do you mean? The guy, the way he mimed to the piano, I said, that was him for real, you fucking idiot.

You know, people have said that, and it's like, if I were to mime it or I'd have to imitate it perfectly with all the notes, so why not just play it? Exactly.

It's crazy. By the way, it would almost be more impressive if it was a mind. That's almost harder than playing it.

Was there ever that discussion, Sean, to turn the piano such that the audience, some of the audience could see the keys?

Yeah. I thought you were going to say the other thing that they couldn't. Because I did. I panicked before we opened. Talking about Good Night, Oscar. And talk before, I panicked. I was like, if I hurt my hand or I can't do it or I get scared and I've been playing it too many times, can we just run a tape and I'll just fake it with the keys facing a wave? And the director's like, You're going to be fine. I'm like, But you don't understand.

No, but you did record it, though. You did have it recorded.

Yeah, just in case.

I never used it. Just in case, but you never had to use it.

No, I mean, clearly, your command was just dazzling. I mean, I-Thank you. That's very nice. I said, What have I been doing for the last 60 years? I'll be all fucking about.

Will and I were crying at the end of it.

Jason and I were crying.

Oh, yeah, I was crying, too.

A, how beautiful was and how talented was, and B, how talentless we are. I compared to them.

They were screwed. I felt distinctly talentless after having watched them.

Did you see Black Rabbit?

No. That's okay. I'm pushing through.

It's pretty fantastic. Or is this thing on with Will or not? Lord knows. Maybe.

He'll get around to it all.

Wait, Brian, I wanted to talk to you. I wanted to get in before because this is one of my favorite films and film series. I love the character of Ward Abbott from the Born movies. I didn't know. I think people thought I was going to mention playing Hannibal Lector, which, again, you are the original Hannibal Lector in Man Hunter, which I saw in the theaters-Great movie. In the '80s. I fucking love that movie. You were brilliant in that, really brilliant. Chilling. I'm not just saying that, but I'm such a Borend fan. I loved Ward Abbott because there's a scene that... There's so many great scenes. You're so great in those movies, but there's a scene where the kid finds out that it's you that's done it, and he takes you down and he says, I figured it out. Then what they did was they have a light switch and blah, blah, blah. You go, Okay, yeah. You go, Okay, run it for me again. He does it again, and then you kill him in the most brutal way. It's one of I remember the first time I watched it, I was like, Oh, my God.

It was so shocking. To walk me through The Born movies, if you can, just a little bit, did you have a great experience? Was it a fun experience?

Did you like it? Yeah, it was great. Doug Lyman is probably the most eccentric director you could ever meet. He flies a plane like this. He's extraordinary eccentric, but gifted. Just like, he's got these flashes. I can't remember which film. I think That's the first one. There's a sequence where Jason Bourne falls. It's set in Paris, and he falls off, and it looks as if he were going to kill himself. But he falls onto another actor who goes down, and that breaks his fall. You remember that? Yeah, of course. That was Doug's idea. That was Doug said, Why do we do that?

That was the first one in that stairwell, in that huge stairwell in the middle of the-Exactly.

It was amazing. I just couldn't believe it when I saw it, and I thought, My God. But because it was very brave of Matt to do it, but it worked like a dream, and it was wonderful.

Yeah, there's such a great series of films. I just had to bring those up because I love them. I love them. So much. Of course, because I I want to run out of time, and I know that people, because this is a big area and people are going to... We'd be remiss if we didn't mention it. And so forgive us for, hopefully, bringing up succession, which has been so beloved around the world. And talk a little... I mean, first of all, how did that come into your orbit, the success?

I just got a call one day to say that Jesse Armstrong was thinking about this piece, and he would like to talk to me. So I got on a phone with Adam McKay, who was one of the executive. Sure. Yeah. And I mean, Jesse always wanted me to play the role. I knew that. I thought this is going to be a hit. I just knew it was.

It's so funny to hear you say that because we ask everybody, did you know it was going to be a hit? People are like, you never know. But I love that you just said, I knew.

I knew. I just knew this was going to be one of the biggest shows of all time.

Because the material was so strong?

Yeah. And also just the part I thought, wow, this is a great part because it's a received part. He just comes in at the right moment. And then you've got this real intellectual bandit that he is. It was just an extraordinary... But the cast was amazing. I mean, the cast was amazing. I mean, and to watch all the actors grow through the whole show and see the lovely Sarah Snuk, Roman. I can never remember the names of the actors, but they're all so good.

How did How did you like the schedule of that? Did it seem just relentless, or was it since it was an ensemble, the workload was all shared and no one ever really got gassed?

No, no one really. It didn't become heavy in any way. When it was a heavy episode, usually you weren't in it, which is what was quite good. Like the Kendall's birthday party, I wasn't in that episode at all. No, it was very relaxed and such great players like Matthew McFadian, who's just a wonderful actor. All of them, they were all great. Even Jeremy Strong.

Yeah, sure.

And you were- Stop it now, Sean. Behave yourself. Please. I have a reputation. I've got to think about it.

Wait, so you get this material and you're like, Okay, I think this is going to be hit. You like the party. It's a great part. It's a great, great part. Then what? Do you guys shoot a pilot or did you go straight to series?

That's a very good question. I can't remember. I think we went straight to- Adam McKay directed the pilot, yes? Yeah, he did. I think we went straight to series. I think we did the pilot, and then it was literally like, I don't know, a month, and then we went on, did the series. But we knew we were going to be doing the series. Right. I think so. I may have got that wrong.

Were you living in New York the whole time?

Well, no. I was living in London to start with. I was cross-living because I lived between London and New York.

How do you like living in the States versus London? What's the pluses and the minuses?

Oh, God.

Where to start? Be careful because we don't want you to get stopped at the border.

No, no, no. We live in funny times. I don't want any ICE agents suddenly appearing in my hotel door. It's difficult. It's very difficult. I feel very sympathetic towards Americans and where they're finding themselves at this time. And in many ways, it's a very exciting time, but it's also in many ways an acutely depressing time. And I find that I go more to the depressing side than the exciting side. And I just find it extraordinary because I love this... When I was a kid, when I was 15, and I still wanted to be an actor, but I realized I wanted to be an American actor because I never wanted to be Kenneth Moore or Dirk Bogard or any of those English actors. That just had nothing. Who were they? No connection. Oh, God, don't worry. You're being pernicious, Jason. Absolutely pernicious.

We will be right back.

Now, back to the show.

I understand that, too, though, Brian. As a Canadian, I also have the same... I'm very proud of being from Canada, and I love But as a a newer American of almost 20 years, I always wanted to come here, too. I always had that thing like this was the place. It's such a great country, the US. There's so many incredible towns, and there's so much opportunity to do so many different things. I think that was it. Do you know what I mean?

And also the history of cinema. I mean, cinema is an American invention. You can't deny it. Because my great passion is, in fact, my wife is so pissed off at me because I spend my days I've been working really hard. I've done four plays. I played Bach. I've done a play about the financial crisis of 2008, which I played Adam Smith, the history of... Do you know who Adam Smith was? No problem. He was your education. Anyway, and I did that. I did that. No, it was great. I realized that I wasn't American. It was very depressing when I realized, what was I going to do?

Well, I would say this, to us, you had a leg up being British or Scottish, whatever.

Yeah, it did. But just in terms of where you were going to go with your work. It was just a very odd feeling. Then I was walking down the hill town of my hometown, and there was a film on called Saturday Night and Sunday Morning. You probably haven't heard of that film.

Sean It's his favorite.

It's Albert Finney.

When I saw Albert Finney, I thought, I'm saved.

If he can do it I can do it. That guy from Salford, Manchester, can do it, I can do it. Also, Albert and I, subsequently, he was a bit older than me, but we worked together a couple of times. I remember we did a play at the Royal Court. The Royal Court is a very famous theater Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah, of course. God, sometimes it's really hard. Anyway, I look at these. Audience can't see. I look at these bewildered faces, particularly the two on the bottom here.

That's just their resting face. They have resting bewildered face.

But Albert Finne, he changed my life. He just realized I said, That's my path. Of course, it was a time of, which was an amazing time in the UK, of the beginning of what they called the free cinema. It was Tony Richardson, Lindsay Anderson, who you didn't know, John Schlesinger, who you probably have heard of.

I put him in the same category as Lindsay Anderson, to be honest.

Brian, you have such You're incredible.

You're very funny, you're very charismatic. You remind me of another Scottish, one of my closest friends, Patrick Doyle. Do you know this composer, Patrick Doyle?

The composer?

Yeah. He composed Harry Potter and Cinderella.

He's a great friend of the Irishman, what's he called? I forget his name. Jesus. Ken Bran. Ken Bran. He does all Ken Bran.

You remind me of him a lot. I just didn't know if you knew each other.

No, we've never met, actually, ironically. We've never met.

You know what I want to ask you about? I want to ask you about... Will and I Moonlight a little bit with voiceover work sometimes. I love the stuff that you do for McDonald's. For McDonald's, I know. How did that come your way? Is that Is that something that you enjoy? I mean, it gives you some very handy pocket change. He's loving it. It pays for a lot of stuff.

It pays for a lot of stuff. I'm not complaining.

How often do you find yourself in the booth recording new stuff?

Well, it took a while because I've been here for nearly 30 years on and off. I had a huge voiceover career back in the UK, which I couldn't keep up. That was before they do things down the line, which they didn't do in the early days because it was too expensive. So I had a great voice career. And when I came here, it stopped. I lost my voice career. And then I had this agent guy called Steve Arcieri, who I would recommend to anybody. He is a brilliant, brilliant agent. He's in New York. And he'd been watching up for me for a few years. And he just came at me at the right point and said, and it was McDonald's. And that was it. And then I did Uber Eats. Have you seen my Uber Eats commercial?

I don't know if I have. I think I did.

You got to watch that. You got to watch the Uber Eats. That's very funny.

Is that on camera or is that voice- Yeah, it's on camera.

I play a belligerent character who's going back to university in order to get Uber Eats because it's free.. It's so good. The whole thing is a series of vignettes. It won an Emmy, that whole ad. I've got that as well. I love ads. I love them.

I Well, we do, too. I want to piggyback on what Jason was saying because we do, as Jason said, we both have Moonlight sometimes and get to do these voice gigs. But you have such great command of your voice.

That was Kristen Linklater. Was it? There you go. That was Kristen Linklater. That's when I found out that's why I went to Lambda. Then, blow me, but six weeks after I got to Lambda, she left and came to America. She taught at Columbia for a long time. Oh, wow.

But it's just... Even in something like the McDonald's ads, you understand such a way of bringing something to the voice in a way that is outside the norm. With no disrespect to anybody who else who does voiceovers, I've done it for a long time, and there are so many talented people out there.

You mean like me? Because you've never said that to me.

I'm just saying that Jason's never done it. Jason sounds like, talk about phoning it in.

He does it on his phone. It's literally on my phone.

It's like leaving a voicemail message.

He does it on his phone. Did they say do it in a higher octave? I don't understand.

Via Hyundai, it's a great car. There it is. I just speak it.

But do you sense... I wonder also if you have that thing, which after years of doing voiceovers, where you understand, where you can look at a script. I have this thing where I can look at copy that they send me, I'll see the timing and it'll go seven seconds, and then I'll go like, Yeah, I can probably do that in six and a half seconds. Do you have that thing?

Similar thing. I mean, usually the scripts are so good and so tight. That's the great thing with McDonald's. That's what-They've timed it out already. They've already timed it. I don't have to worry. All I have to worry about is the performance. Just getting the- Well, can't you just say, if it took too long, can't you just...

Wouldn't they just say, Can you make it shorter? Oh, yeah.

They would tell me to hurry up. But I like to get out. We have a great expression in Scotland, which is get on and get off, which means get on and get off. With voiceovers, I like to get on and get off and not hang about on them. Because that's the other thing. If you hang about too much, their density doesn't support you. With voiceovers, you have to drive them through. You have to do them and just be abandoned to them rather than... Because otherwise, you lose the job because you've only got an hour to do.

I find myself getting ordinary where I'll go. I'll be doing something and they'll say, You'll do a take and you'll go through and you'll get a perfect take. It's really good. You go, you'll lay it down and blah, blah, blah. Then they'll go, That's great. They'll say, Let's get one more for safety. I go, Safety? It's digital, right? What are you worried about? A hair in the gate? What are you talking about? You got it. Now, if you want me to do it differently or you have a thought, great. But otherwise, we're good.

Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more, Will. But again, we have director problems.

Now, Brian, was it a gentle pitch that they made to you when they asked you to do the iconic little jiggle at the end there? The ba, da, ba, ba, ba, ba. But was that... If I had to pitch Brian Cox, Hey, listen, we'd like for you to do this, I'd be scared shitless to ask you to do that. Or was that Was it in the copy?

No, they just wanted me to do it, and I did it. It's so good.

If I know Jason, Jason would be like, You know what? That's a different pay rate. If you want me to sing it.

Yeah, sing is a different rate.

Sean, am I right? Would J. B. Hold them up for weeks on that?

Sure, yeah. I have to read that. I'll call you back. I'm not going to show up to tell you. No, but what about... I auditioned for the voice of Affleck for that duck that goes Affleck, right? Yeah, perfect. I didn't get it. It was between me and Gilbert Godfried, who got it. I remember the audition, I go in there and I had no idea what it was for. Through the glass, I had my headphones on, and they were just, Read the copy there. I'm like, Affleck? I don't understand. They're like, That's all it says. I'm like, That's all it says. Like, Yeah, just do it. Do it like a goose. Like a goose. I'm like, Affleck? I don't understand. I don't understand what you want me to... They're like, Great, thanks. I'm like, Well, I didn't know I was supposed to sound like an actual animal.

Do you feel like your lack of intellect has held you back in other ways?

Or creative impulse?

It can be tyrannous, these situations. It's a question of just moving it. I love it. I love the discipline. I love the discipline of the voiceover. It's just a great thing to practice your craft.

I agree. I like I like that it's a tight space. I like that you only have a finite amount of space in order to get this point across. Often, it's not a lot of time. There's something about that that I find really GMC Sierra. Are you talking about professional great? Professional great GMC Sierra. We are professional great.

But, Will, you're blessed with a very fine voice. I remember when I saw you in that wonderful film that you did with Brad, and I thought, your voice is very strong. It's a very good voice.

That's a compliment coming from you, so I appreciate it. Thank you very much.

You've got great clarity. That was what was so wonderful about that part you were playing because he was on the run, but the clarity was so strong, and I was very impressed.

If he ever wins an award, the first person he's going to thank is cigarettes.

Yeah. They're the only ones who have never let me down, Sean.

They They've never let me down. They've never not returned a call. They've always been there for me. Brian, it's so funny. You go back and you've done theater. You've won Olivier Awards. You won BAFTAs and Emmys and Golden Globes and all of it and film and television. Now you've directed your film. It is one of these... We ask people all the time, What is the thing that you'd like to do? You've seemingly done, again, at risk of embarrassing you, it all. What gets you up in the the morning of now that you've directed this film, what's the next thing that you're excited to get out of bed to do?

The next job. Okay. The next job.

Do you have anything left that you're curious to see if you can handle?

It only comes when it comes. You can't do over contemplation. What would I do? How would I... You just do it.

But like you guys were talking about a one-man show. I literally turned down one a couple of months ago because I just didn't think that's something that I could really enjoy doing.

No, because you're not a one man. You're not a full man. That's why. That's it. If they said a half man show. Halfman show you could do. You could do a half man show for sure.

I got to get some theater under my belt before I take something like that on. You should. Why don't you? I'm dying to do that. But there are things that I am- You would be brilliant, I would love to challenge myself. That's one of them. I can't imagine there's a whole lot left on your list to challenge yourself with.

I don't even see as a challenge. I just see as the work. It's part of the work. It's part of the job. Jason, you're a very fine actor. No, no, thank you. You are. You've done the Ozarks, the work you've done. I think sometimes you don't trust yourself nearly enough, Jason.

Let's get into it.

Keep going, Brian.

I think that's your problem. I think you You're very contained. You're contained in a way that says, If I move too fast, I'll fall over.

Look at this guy.

That's a great note. I think that that's your... Just let yourself go.

You'd like to see me cut it loose. You'd sound like my wife.

She wants me to- Cut it loose because you're so gifted, you're so talented, and you should trust your talent more than you do.

He did a very fine performance in this program, the Black Rabbit, that Brilliant. Brilliant. Brilliant. Brilliant. Brilliant.

He is much more-He's a wonderful actor.

He's a wonderful actor. You are a wonderful actor. I've had the fortune of working with him many times. But I will say Jason has, and I always say this to Jason, too, and this is the great thing. He's so funny. As Sean, you'll attest it, he's the funniest person. His timing is absolutely impeccable that you cannot teach. I say to you, Jason, all the time, I wish you to get back and do a couple of straight comedies. You're so fucking good at comed. Well, if they still made them, I'd do them. But you're denying us of comedy. Why are you denying us?

They just don't make them anymore.

Yeah, well-Make a show.

Do an eight-episode comedy show.

Yeah. I love I'd love to if they made those.

They do.

But you said that you wanted to do some more theater. Is that right?

Yeah, I'd love to do that. I would love to do some more acting. I just haven't felt like... I don't know. It's a whole different subject about I've enjoyed playing characters that aren't that character-y, for lack of a better term. I got turned off to watching actors act. I like playing the straight man and the talent in doing less. But now I'm starting to think, I might want to take on some other characters and do bigger, broader acting swings. This is good.

I think you've earned the right to risk it.

Yes. It's not a question of risk or trusting talent. It's just a question of not... The roles that I've been attracted to, I would be overplaying them if I ran instead of walked.

Jason, I can't see you overplaying I'm not going to say anything, to be honest with you. Thank you. Because your taste is exquisite.

Well, you are very kind.

All you guys have got that. That is what is so good about you. Trust yourself a bit more than you do. Maybe we should have a private session. Yeah, this is not a bad idea.

I would pay handsomely just to be able to witness it and be a part of it. I'd love to have a session with Brian and Jason. Oh, my God, Sean, how fun would that be?

We're halfway there. I know we are. We're all got to figure it out.

Jason, this is what you need. You need a mentor. You didn't even fucking know it. Brian, you've mentored us all with your talent for so many years. We are so grateful for you coming on here. We wish you Just continued success and a lot of success with Glenn Roth in your film that you've directed. Congratulations.

I can't wait to see it.

Brian Cox, you are an absolute legend and icon, and thank you for being part of our show today.

Well, this is an honor, to be honest, to talk to you three guys of such incredible and talent. It's an honor. It's been an honor. So thank you.

Thank you, darling.

There we go. Thank you, darling.

Thank you, Brian. Thank you, buddy.

Thank you, Brian. Thank you, Brian. The great Brian Cox.

See you. Bye, pal.

Amazing.

Have a good day. Take care. Bye, bye.

Wait, you know what? First of all, he's an absolute delight. I had no idea he was so funny and like, breezy. He's so funny. Light and breezy.

I had the opportunity. I said this to Brian. He came to a screening of our film a few months ago, and I got to talk to him afterwards. When, like 30 years ago, he was friends with somebody I knew, I was out here. It was one of my first times in California. They said, We're going to go buy Brian Cox's renting house in the Hollywood Hills, and we're going to go watch the Oscars. At his house? At his house that he was renting. I went up. It was like one of my first time ever doing that thing. You've come from not here, and you go up into the Hollywood Hills to a house, and you're like, Oh, my God, look at the lights and everything. Then you go in and here's this guy who's this working actor, acclaimed working actor, and going to his house. I was about 25. Going to his house, and I was about 25, and going into his house and just being... He was just blown away, not knowing what to say. All you want to do is get a job. He was so kind and so gracious. I was just some stupid ass kid.

I'm not much different now, but I'm some stupid ass kid, and he was so welcoming and generous and made me feel... I was like, What a fucking great dude.

Yeah, you can tell.

Yeah, you can tell.

Class act. Why don't you You should have told him that story.

Because I didn't want to cry.

Oh, Will. Yeah.

Okay.

Or have him say, No recollection.

Yeah, I don't.

Turn the tables on us.

No, it doesn't sound like me. It doesn't sound like me.

Willy, you need to do... What about you doing theater, too? I think Jason would be fucking brilliant in a play, and so would you.

I don't know if I have the character for it.

Or the voice.

Or the voice.

You've got to reach the back row with your pipes.

Yeah, you got to reach the Italian guy in the back.

You always want to be like, Oh, whatever you do, do not take the Lessington bus and then go across out and then cross like a Neil Simon play. You know what I mean?

Well, he was delightful. I love that guy.

He is a delight.

He really, really was. What a great, great actor. What a great career. My God. I know. It doesn't sound like he's going to slow down at all.

No. Waiting for the next gig.

Yeah.

I love that he's doing radio plays, and it's just God, he just does. He loved it. He does it all.

I know Sean- Sean is just making us hang here, making us come up with a buy. You know Sean is coming.

I got one. I got one that may or may not have just popped up. Oh. Yeah. No. No.

You know what? Sean, I have one. No, no, no, sorry. I have one.

Okay, what's yours? It was great. What a great simple name to remember. If you can't remember his name, you could always recall. Oh, yeah.

What's his name?

By Incox.

By.

Wait, I don't get that.

I still don't get it. Because Bennett sent it to all of us and it said it to all of us, and it said, Brian Cox.

It said By Incox.

I still don't get it. What is it?

Instead of Brian, Brian.

Oh. So dumb. His music. Smart. Nice.

Lass. Smart. Smart.

Smart. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Michael Grant-Terry, Rob Armjarv, and Bennett Barbego. Smart. Lass.