Transcript of Statement Statement | The Steve Dangle Podcast

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Hairy down there?

Yeah.

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Okay. 11 million men. This ad sucks. 11 million men worldwide who have trust manscaped. Use this, the code, Dangle. 20% off in free shipping. Use Dangle manscaped. Com, 20% off free shipping. Happy Valentine's Day. Steve Dangle podcast. With your host, Steve Dangle, Adam Wild and Jesse Blake.

Hey, Maddie, what happened?

What happened, Maddie? What happened, Maddie? Hey, Maddie.

He's taking a sip of my first coffee.

Oh, right now. Did I make it for you?

Oh, wow. Wow. Sleeping on the job. For anybody who's listening, when the intro goes with Adam, or Steve Dangle, Adam Wild, then Jesse Blake, Maddie usually switches the camera to each of us so that we appear when it says our names. And this morning, today, Maddie was asleep at the wheel. Listen, I- Do shit. I get a get out for jail free card because I got the date right for the Boston Pizza thing. Without me, you would have- You didn't get it right. Without me, you would have- You just noticed that we didn't say it. Just had a bunch of shit in the comments.

I I think what Maddie is saying is we set a low standard for this show. We just are constantly screwing things up, and now she-Oh, come on. Takes license to screw things up also. Well, 3v1 is so unfair. We need to step it up.

Let me give you something.

Oh, yeah? Let me give you something.

It happens to be all the time, Maddie. Let me give you something that's indeed correct. February 12th. Is what? It's a Tuesday.

For what, though? What am I doing?

Four Nations Face-off is kicking off that day. We will be at Boston Pizza Stoville doing a show. Okay. Yay. We've done a couple of shows at Boston Pizza Stoville. We love it there. It's a special location. And obviously, we're going to do our little show at The doors open at 5:30. Show starts at 6:30. Canada plays at 8:00 because it's a Tuesday, and the NHL hates your bedtime.

All the Four Nations games start at 8:00.

I know, but they hate your bedtime. Oh, we're worried about the West Coast. Okay. I watched during dinner.

All right? They're trying to make it a more primed-time event. All right.

Okay. You guys stay up late now. I'm kidding. It's so much better to watch games in the West. When you live in the West, watching sports is just so much better.

I feel like they don't know that.

No, they know. They talk about it all the time out there. It's the best.

It is. The actual best is central if we're talking about the best time zones. You think so? Yeah. Why? Because with the West Coast, sometimes you get that. If you're a of an East Coast team, you're getting that it starts when I'm at work time slot. It'll be a four o'clock start if it's a seven o'clock game. If you're a fan of an East Coast team, it's a little difficult. But in that central zone, everything's just primed time. Everything's in the wheelhouse.

Yeah, but then you got to live in the central.

Damn. What are you saying?

Adam's saying F Chicago.

You don't like Chicago? No, Chicago is great. Denver counts as central, right?

I don't know what- And Minnesota would count as central.

By By the way, I think you're on my headphones because I'm- You deserve it. It's cut now.

You deserve it. It's Denver. Denver is in the mountain standard. They're mountain standard. They're that. They're even... Denver, it's a good debate between Central and mountain, which one's actually the best for sports because you even get a little bit, a little extra more time within the mountain.

Well, Stilville is in the Eastern time zone. Yes. But I will say this, Molson Canadian is the big sponsor here. They're an official beer for hockey and the partner of the Toronto Maple East and the PWHL. They're involved, it's fair to say. I'm really excited because Molson Canadian is going to give you the chance to play Call the Shot, where you get to make some predictions for your chance at $40,000 worth of prizing. That's at BpStoville, February 12th. Molson Canadian wants to bring everyone in on hockey. If everyone includes you, and it does, you should be there. You can buy tickets right now. They're in the link.

You can get a brand new luxury car for two months' worth of groceries. The choice is yours.

$40,000 worth of prizes. It doesn't mean it's $40,000. There's a difference. Oh. Yeah. Prizes in value of, I would assume, tickets and memorabilia and... Groceries. No, I don't know about groceries. I don't know about that. Anyway, this location is also owned by NHL alum and friend of the show, Keith Hachten.

Who has a Stanley Cup ring.

That's right, with the Everton Oilers. And he also played on a line and centered a line with Guy Lafleur, as he told us, which is bonkers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Also, Craig Beru.

And was an assistant coach for the Toronto Mapleies for years during the last really good era of Toronto Mapleief Hockey before this one. Now, usually because we are Lee fans, and this show really is like the NHL through Lee fans' eyes, we would start with the Monday Night game. It's like, right? Don't you think? Kind of. Yeah. We're Lee fans, and we've got our perspective on other things happening in the NHL. I don't think that's wrong. That's incredibly right, actually.

The only thing that annoys me is when we talk about another team and we criticize them. And people go, Yeah, what about the leaves?

I'm like, What about the leaves? I wasn't talking about them. Never heard the show, huh? Never talked to another leaf fan. No. Today, we got to start with the Edmondson Oilers. And this absolutely bananas, bonkers, what the hell is going on here, statement. It's short. I'm going to read it all to you. It has to do with an event we spoke about last show, which was the Connor Garland, Connor McDavid, the Connor v. Connor.

This went in the A little opposite direction I thought it was going to.

Well, we'll get to that. The statement says this, The Everton Oilers have released the following statement. I don't know why they need to say that on the statement. That's actually a very good point. Regarding the three-game suspension of Connor McDavid, the oilers Our organization is disappointed, and we share our fans' frustration over the three-game suspension of our captain, Connor McDavid. We support him through this process. And the organization and our fans look forward to having him back in the lineup versus Seattle next week. Now, they go on to talk about McDavid scoring 20 goals and 45 assists, 43 games. Yeah, his stats are amazing. Slated to miss Tuesday's game versus Washington, Thursday versus Vancouver, Saturday versus Buffalo, returning next Monday versus Seattle.

Now, Thursday versus Vancouver is very interesting. I didn't realize one of the games he was being suspended for is against the Knucks. So doesn't it feel like the Knucks are being rewarded?

Well, I think you trade Myers for McDavid anyway.

Yeah, but the game that's in question is the Buffalo one, right? He was probably going to be out for the Vancouver one regardless. Yes.

That's probably a two game.

We're going to get into it.

I think we need to start with the three game suspension itself. Because I remember Jesse saying on the show, and I didn't disagree with him. He was like, One game or two games is probably going to be fair, right? That's what you said on Monday. Yes. I can see that it was When Matthews did it, it was two games. Earlier this season, it was one game. Timo Meyer. Timo Meyer. Timo Meyer. Timo Meyer.

I was pretty at it. And in the playoffs, Carson Susie, a game. Playoffs are different. David. Playoffs are different.

I don't give a shit. But now it's three. I look at this, and this is my personal It's a general thought. This is him getting a suspension for two games for cross-checking Conor Garland to the face and also chicken winging that guy last week and knocking him out the game before. Marcus Johansson. Yeah. When he took out Marcus Johansson and regardless. This is the NHL going, All right, we let that first one go. Now we're doing summary punishment.

That doesn't make sense.

That's how it feels. Otherwise, how else does three games make sense?

It doesn't. That's the thing. It doesn't make sense. It's the wrong amount of games. It should have been a two-game suspension.

Yeah, we're going to meet in the middle here. Adam has a theory. Jesse says, That's nonsensical. That's why I think Adam's right.

This is exactly the thing. Tyler Myers was also suspended for three games. Yeah, but no, I know. And he didn't chicken wing anybody on Wednesday, so the logic doesn't logic.

But here's where I think three games might have come from. It's both of them. They both did it. If it's only one guy, you can handle it. You can be like, this is different from this. I think if Myers got more than McDavid or McDavid got more than Myers, there would be several small fires blowing around the country, beginning in the West. It would not be a good time for anyone. The overall conversation was, what's Connor supposed to do? There was a lot of support for what he did. So they're like, you know what? Three. Maybe it should be two, three.

No, but that's the wrong decision.

I agree.

I agree with you. I, too, agree with that. That's the right statement.

So that everything you're saying to try and justify is wrong.

I'm not trying to justify it. We're trying to get in their heads. Yeah.

Where did this come from?

I don't believe that they had a rational explanation for any of this.

Well, they employ eight people. Somebody must have tried to rationalize this. You know, it's more than just George and Ryan Getzlaff in a room. There's a whole committee. There's a lot of people that work in this department. So somebody somewhere must have been, Well, here's why... The question has to be, Okay, two games clearly isn't enough. Here's why three is. Then the answer to that question is the question that we all have, which is, what was the answer? How did he fill in that sentence? What did he madlibs? I'm assuming it's a guy. What did he madlibs into the end of that? You ever play madlibs where you fill in the blank? I have. What's the fill in the blank after that? Here's why it needs to be three games.

I don't think there is one. What I was going to do is welcome with open arms the Vancouver Canucks and Edmonton Oilers fan bases into to the, If this is the standard going forward club, every time a leave gets suspended, well, if this is the standard going forward, then fine. And it never freaking is.

I see there was a lot of criticism about the Oilers releasing this statement, and I'm completely on the other end of that. I think they were completely justified in releasing a statement and saying something because the decision was not consistent with any of the decisions that the NHL has made for suspensions, for cross-checking. So I I think that they should express their frustration with that because everybody should be frustrated in this situation because there is no logic to having a three-game suspension.

The problem is I don't think they did that. No, they didn't do that. They just said, Oh, we're disappointed, and it comes off as journey. If they say how they really feel, they're going to get fined.

Exactly. I think this is the most they could do. I'm crediting them for doing the most that they could do. I understand. The Edmondson Oilers organization is disappointed is how that statement reads, and then there's one other sentence after that. Doing those five words there is the most they can do, and they went there and they did that. Credit to them for at least standing up to the Department of Player Safety, which cannot do its job.

Well, I think the line that got everybody and got me, and I still think it's hilarious, is we support him through this process. Give me a break. It's three games, you'll be fine. Now, does that make it not fair? It's still completely It's fair. But all you needed to do in that statement was say, We're really disappointed and disagree with the thing, and Connor will be back Monday. We support him through this process. He's a grown man. He's a captain. He went to game seven of the finals. Connor McDavid is good. We know that Edmonton supports Connor McDavid. We're well aware his agent is the freaking president. I get it. The team's built around this man. That, to me, in the PR statement, and I know it's a small thing, but it was hilarious, is we support him through his process. No. Come on now.

That was a delicious tidbit.

I think it should be in there because in there, you want to express how disappointed Connor is as well in there without saying that. So saying that we're supporting him. He's in the back in tears. We have to help him because he's missing this game against Buffalo. We're supporting him through that process. That's what they're trying to express in those couple of words there because they can't say anything, as Steve said, and they got to provide as much color as they can to this two-sentence statement. I think it's great.

Can I throw something out there? The fact that McDavid and the team can't speak their mind on this is bullshit.

No, that's pretty normal. I know it's normal.

Yeah, but a lot of normal things are bullshit. I guess. And this is bullshit. They can't say how they feel. So leave it up to us. This league doesn't know how to officiate this player.

Yeah, or any player.

Do you enjoy your monster, Dr. Frankenstein? You created that. You let him get figure Four leg locked. Now, wait, though. The we support him thing, I always try to look for this than that, right? There was a report that came out from, I think it's a podcast called The Two Mutts.

Yeah, that's what I'm getting to.

Oh, that's what you're getting to. Okay, bring it up, because I think these two things are connected.

So Two Mutts says, and I don't know how real this is, but they said, We are hearing that Connor McDavid and his camp are strongly considering scaling back their NHL tour events such as media interviews to push things for this league. This was communicated before the NHL because the lack of protection of superstar players gets in this league. This is a story we'll follow over in a few weeks. Now, they have a point.

It's important to note that came out before the statement.

Yeah, it did. I think the one thing that I have been annoyed with with NHL players, generally, specifically the superstars, is this, I give a shit attitude. I'm sorry, I'm an athlete. I just don't care about the future of the sport or the health of the sport or the health of the players union or how we're officiated. I'm respectful to Cydney Crosby and Alexander Ovechkin for all the things that they've done. Neither of them have taken a stand on anything against the league, except for Ovi going, I'll take my one game suspension and skip the All-Star game. I don't care. It doesn't mean that it hasn't happened behind the scenes, but I think you've probably got the agent working over I'm here, trying to getting things out, right? Because it's not Jeff Jackson anymore. It's Jud Moldover. Moldaver. Moldaver.

Who represents... Let me check. Everyone.

Everyone. Yeah, he's got some good clients. And I don't blame him. If I were the agent, I would want to be doing the same thing. I think in this situation, Edmonton releasing that statement, the NHL lets that fly off its back. Where league tend to run into issues is when the star players of those league sit down across from them at the table and go, I'm not going to do this. We're not going to stand for this. The NBA is great at it. The NBAPA has all the superstars ahead of it. It was Chris Paul and LeBron James and so many other these big guys coming in and going to the owners, Hey, listen, this is bullshit. And since we have the power right now because we're the product, we're not going to stand for this. This part of it, if Connor does threaten this, he's obviously... There were some people claiming that he sit out the Four Nations with, come on, ridiculous. But there is, and we've all discussed this many times on the show, a real problem with NHL player safety. Here's a real...

And officiating.

Yeah, but let's start with just player safety. Sure. I know that the officiating or lack thereof led to this.

Well, I think one is getting better, the other is getting worse.

But player safety is an easy win for the NHL. Connor, standing up to the NHL, can force some change and go, You to release guidelines on this. If he pulls his services back, the NHL hurts for that. That's not good. The NHL is on a roll, and they don't want to get off this roll. This is going really well. They got TV rights deals to worry about. Their ratings are up. Things are looking good. If Connor McDavid isn't waving the flag, that's a problem for them. Here's a real easy win, NHL. Let's have a standard and let's hold to it. Why hasn't this happened? Connor can get a win here and it'll look a champ. The NHL can get a win here because they'll actually be accountable for this. It's a win-win for everybody. I just don't know if the NHL is smart enough to take the easy road here and actually put this shit down on paper and have a legitimate benchmark for if this, then that, but also every people is different.

None of this is a problem if they simply give him two games. None of this is a conversation. We all move on with our lives. There's a lot of people who like clowning on Connor McDavid, and they'll call him a crybaby in this situation because it's sports and they don't like the other team, and that's how you should react as a fan. But you also should realize how important this individual is to the health of the league. He's the next generation. He's the superstar currently driving the big marketing for this entire league. If you want this league to grow, he's going to be a large part of that. There needs to be some respect here for this player and what he does on and off the ice.

First of all, a cross check to the face has been nothing, a fine, one game, two games, three games, five games. That's how you know the next player is getting four, because it's always something different. Four is the only one that's left. I'm great at poker. The other thing with Connor in this whole situation. So with that report, God, this feels familiar. Well, it's just some podcast talking about it. What do they Wow.

Hey, listen, did you hear about the three on three league?

Every. Sometimes, those podcasts are talking out their ass, and sometimes they have good shit. Yeah.

Right?

So when that statement came out, I was like, okay, we support him through the... He's pissed. He's really pissed. He's not going to die. He's going to survive. He's going to be fine. Yeah, he lost nearly 200 grand. He's going to be fine. He's pissed. So let's go back. Let's go back a year. And again, I'm so smart and so informed because of the CJ show. Cj talked about how this was a really big deal for McDavid, the All-Star Game last year. Him, and I want to say Matthews, but let's just focus on McDavid. He was out there recruiting players and telling them how important it was for them to participate and participate enthusiastically.

Kutrav didn't get that memo.

In the All-Star Game, Kutrav doesn't get any memo. He marches to the beat of his own drum. That's why he's so good. That's why he's so insufferable. That's why I would have his jersey and his decal on my car if he was a leaf. But McDavid went above and beyond. Mcdavid last year was the star that we've been begging for. And the NHL is doing so great. Well, how come? Ratings are up. Stanley Cup final did really well. Well, how come? Me, me, me, me. It all comes back to 9:07.

Well, maybe Matthew Goodchuck, too. Featured in People magazine.

Come on.

Adam. He was in People magazine.

Adam Bee, for real.

Nothing to do with the all-star game.

Matthew Goodchuck is a gift to the league.

We're We're talking about the finals, too, right?

Yeah, we're talking about all of it, but be for real. It is Connor McDavid. And if you want, also Connor McDavid. It was all Connor McDavid. So he went above and beyond. I did that for you. Stanley Cup final, I did that for you. And this is how I get rewarded. I get Figure 4 leg locked, and you have the same dinosaur you've had fucking all the other Canadian teams officiating my game and not calling it. The older and more experienced an NHL ref is, the worse they are at their job. It's just a fact. It's a fact. Not interested in a debate about that. I've told you about this. This is a concern of mine. I'm not being a baby about this. I'm not whining because I lost. This is It's a legitimate concern of mine. What's your concern? You want the All-Star game to go well. I did that for you. You want the sport to thrive with a genuine superstar at the head of it. I did that for you. I stick up for myself because you guys won't do anything, and I get more than the standard that's been set. Fuck you.

I'm not doing shit. Have fun selling tickets to this event where you're trying to... The fans in Montreal have the Habs, they have the Laval Rocket, they have the Victoire, they had the World Junior. Whose brilliant idea was it to have the World Junior's and Four Nation Face-off in Montreal in the same year?

I thought it was Ottawa this year.

Wasn't it split? It was Ottawa. Wasn't it split, Ottawa, Montreal?

Ottawa had the World Junior system.

I thought it was split.

Okay, I can check that.

Okay, well, anyway, it doesn't matter. Regardless, the tickets aren't fucking selling in Montreal. The tickets aren't selling in Boston. You know who could help with all that? The model student that has been going above and beyond. I could collect my paycheck and work on my knee that I fixed my damn self. I could ice my ribs that I keep getting brutalized from every damn cross-check. Iced my back. You know what? I think I'm taking the day off. I think my schedule just cleared a little bit. We have been begging for this and begging for this and begging for this, and he gave it to you, and you spat in his face. Don't blame him.

Yeah, that's why I didn't appreciate both of you coming into this with the energy that you did where you're trying to find leeway for the NHL.

I don't think that is a complete misrepresentation of how we came in.

That's completely not what we did. I thought you were trying to find justification for the three in Johansson, and then, Oh, maybe it's because the both of them did it. I don't think the NHL deserves any leeway in that. And that's trying to find logic in what they did because they simply did the wrong thing. I don't care what justification they had for doing the wrong thing. It was wrong. I think everything that was said for the last 17 minutes after that is the point that the NHL got this wrong.

I don't want anyone misconstruing, Oh, so McDavid should get away with it? No. Since when has it been three games?

Exactly.

It's never been three games. It's probably two, maybe one.

Of course, a cross check to the face is a suspension. What the hell? Since when has it been three games?

And On the last show, you spent 15 minutes talking about how the ref failed in the first place with Connor Garland jumping on McDavid. And then Blase saying afterwards, Yeah, so I cheated, and it worked. Yeah, it was totally fine. Yeah. This is where, Jesse, the reason that I started the show that way was because when you look at things that don't make sense, it's natural to go, Okay, there's got to be some rationale that this other side is applying to this. I think a major problem for Gary Bettman today, and I don't know if he sees it as this, but it is a problem, is when you hire bad people, you get bad results.

I don't think he sees anything as a problem.

Okay, but listen to me. When you hire bad people, you get bad results. Okay, let's be careful with bad people. No, bad at their job. Oh, okay. What do you think I meant?

Well, listen, Adam, you got a spoon feed. Especially in volatile conversations like this one.

When you hire incompetent people. How's that?

There you go.

Incompetence. Gary has just created a headache for himself by hiring incompetent people to run his department. The reason that that's the case is because a lot of the NHL runs on, Hey, he's my drinking buddy. That's a problem. Adam. Gary now has to go and mend this relationship. He's going to have to go and mend this relationship, whether it's Gary himself or one of his people, and try to get Connor back on board because the NHL is on a roll and they've got rights issues that they want to talk about. Alan said it in the last show, Gary came to the Board of Governors' meetings and said, The amount of money that we will to get for the national rights package in Canada will be 3X the last one. Right now, it's about $450 million every year.

David's salary going up three times?

We're talking about $1.2 to $1.5 billion per year for a National Right package, which does not include your regional games. That's what they're expecting to get. If McDavid's like, I don't think I'm going to be involved in that, that's a problem for him. When you hire incompetent people, you then have to clean up their mess. This has It always takes the best player in the sport for change to happen. No one cares. No disrespect. No one cares. If this happened to Matthews, Oilers fans would be like, Aha. If this happens to Nathan McKinnon, people who hate the house are like, Aha. But it's Connor McDavid.

Wasn't it Jared Spurgeon got speared in the face by Gustave Nyquist?

No one cares.

There's a large majority of NHL fans right now laughing at the Edmunds and Orleans going, Aha, it's McDavid. I feel like Because of that statement. Because that's hockey. That's fandom. That's sports. And I think that's okay. There's going to be plenty of people respond to this. I'm like, Ah, McDavid's a cry, baby, all that stuff. But I think the rational way to look at this is how detrimental doing this to him and both of them, honestly, because neither of them should have got three games, and how the Department of Player Safety is doing the wrong thing here.

The reason I was giving you a smushy face on, Bettman has a headache. Please save this clip for when Paros is inducted into the Hall of Fame as a builder.

Well, Gary won't be alive in the past.

The game is rigged, man. I want this guy to retire. I want that guy to retire. It's an ecosystem. Here's the problem's breed, right? And they create offspring. What is Bill Daly other than Gary Bettman's professional son? You know what I mean? Yeah. Or whoever is next. I just don't see this problem ever getting fixed. Paros gets hired. What's player safety jammed with? His friends, his younger friends. You know what they're going to do once Paros is gone? Hire their My younger friends. I hope... As a hockey fan and someone whose professional life revolves around, professional life, revolves around the NHL doing well, I simultaneously need the league to do well and do better than it is doing and need things to change in order for that to happen. I don't I don't know if both those things can happen at the same time. I just don't. They got to suffer a bit in order to figure this out. And I just don't trust them to be smart enough to solve what ails them.

See, I think Connor can push this.

I hope so. And listen, like, Knux fans are going to be all over us for this. Listen, McDavid can't do what he did. He can't do what he did. But let's be serious here. Garland was like, na, na, na, na, booboo about it after the game. He very much was. What he did was wrong. I hate the depiction of what he did as, oh, it's a two-minute minor. No, no, no, There's not 12 minutes left in the second period. This is less than 20 seconds left in a one goal game.

Even if he gets called for the penalty, they got to take a face off.

And he, by his own admission, is like, Yeah, well, I simply cheated to win, like frigging Eddie Guerrero, except it's real and counts. It is inscripted. This is a bigger issue than that. If it's Quinn Hughes getting decked in the face, you're going to have a much bigger problem with it. You don't think the Knucks... You don't think Francesco Aquilini is releasing the same thing, but potentially more on-I think the Knux have enough going on to worry about that.

They've got their own problems, man.

Well, I I think that's the thing Francesco goes, You know what I'm going to do? And Rutherford goes, Well, hold on. So maybe he would have prevented it. But I think, anyway, she would have been on the other foot. But McDavid has power here. I hope he uses it.

I think he's trying to. This is where we wrap this part of the segment. I want to know what you guys think happens here. Obviously, McDavid is going to play in the Four Nations. That is ridiculous. To be honest with you, when anything happens in Edmondson, it is fun to see the freak out. But this was, I think they were wronged. I think everybody knows that they were wronged. Still interesting to see the takes. We go to, where does this end? Let's say the Four Nations is a wild success, ratings-wise. I don't know how the ticket sales are going to go, but wild success ratings-wise, Connor McDavid scores the winning goal, that thing. Sure. He is the most in demand person in the sport. Let's say he does withhold doing NHL appearances. What then happens? You've got this. It's weeks away, weeks away, the best players in the world, weeks away. Most of the best players in the world. A couple of countries shot out of there. What then happens? You got playoffs to promote, you got next season to promote, you got the Olympics, you got a whole bunch of things. What happens?

Well, like Connor McDavid, every time he's in in front of the net, or every time he tries to enter the zone, or every time he tries to do anything, maybe the NHL should just sit there and take their lumps.

You think so?

Well, they have two ways of responding to this. Either the problem gets worse, and they say, F you, and the whistle for McDavid gets even worse, and there's precedent for this. We know it works this way. Dennis Wideman, Knux fans are very familiar with Stéphane O'Gerre, with with regard to Alex Burrows. And that whole game, you can look it up. It was a travesty. Or they can sit there, eat their shit, take their lumps, and at some point reach out to McDavid and go, All right, Connor, loud and clear. New standard going forward, and then prove it to him.

Jesse, what do you think?

I honestly think we're going to arrive on Saturday. They're going to play that game in Buffalo without Connor McDavid. They're going to play their next game. Connor McDavid does his media veils. He talks about it, disappointed, all that stuff. And then we move on because that's how it always happens. We move on after a week. We'll sit here next week, next Wednesday, and this isn't going to be a story, and it won't be a story forever until the next time somebody gets suspended for cross-striking somebody in the head, or the next time McDavid is in an incident that might require supplemental discipline. That's the next time we'll talk about it. But in terms of a news story and withholding services and all that stuff, we're moving on seven days from now.

The news cycle moves quickly. And Jesse, you make a good point. The most boring outcome is usually the most likely. Yeah. Okay. All right. Get ready for Puck Drop at Bet MGM, official sports betting partner of the National Hockey League. Jesse, you just dropped a pen.

Like I dropped the Puck.

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First of all, let's go.

Well done. Well done.

We could talk leaves, but I'd prefer to do this for my own self. The report is out there, guys, that the Pittsburgh Penguins are considering a fire sale. But that fire sale does not include Malcolm Crosby, at least, and potentially Littang. And Carlson, you can't move. So is that a fire sale?

No. No, that's a garage sale. Okay. Hey, can Can we have a fifth rounder for a third liner? Sure. What will you give me for this? You're not at a car dealership. You're on my lawn. I got some old garden shears. What are we even talking I got it. Who is a pending free agent on the Pittsburgh Penguins?

Well, I think Marcus Patterson is the one that... Yeah. So the report is- He's good.

I like him.

Marco D'Amico from g. Org.

Okay.

D'amico asserts that Crosby, Malk, and Rust, Tomasino, and Pickering are the only players. Pittsburgh has no interest in moving. Sorry, I incorrectly said.

So what fire sale is this?

We're not moving like 10 guys. You've got Petterson, Gryslick, Anthony Bavillier with expiring contracts, Raquel, Carlson, Littang, and Graves, who would be available and have years left on their deals.

Raquel was stupid.

They should Who of heaven and earth to keep him.

Who are the other names? Raquel, Carlson, Littang, Graves, Petterson, Grislik, Anthony Bavillier.

Okay, Adam, bear with me. Start the list of guys who are available again.

Marcus Petterson, Matt Gryslick. No, no, no, no, no, slow.

Marcus Petterson.

Yes.

Okay, cool.

Matt Grislik.

Powerplay Specialist, meh.

Traded for a fourth at the deadline, Anthony Bavillier.

Meh.

Ricard Raquel. Good.

Eric Wilson. Redonculously expensive.

Chris Littang.

Old.

Ryan Graves.

Absolutely not.Oh, is that the end of the list?That's it. That's not a fire sale. Hey, the penguins are open to trading their problems?

Mm-hmm.

Oh, okay. Plus, Ricardo Cal. Guys, what are we doing here?

Well, and this is where I wanted to ask you guys about, is Is this the start of a rebuild in everything but name? Okay, Crosby and Malkin want to stay there till the end of their careers. That's fine. I get that. Littang is making 6.1 million, guys. He's not playing up to his 6.1 million. But if you get Littang retained, then at 3 million, you're like, Oh, man, I'll take that. That's great.

Everyone knows they're rebuilding except them. The rebuild began when they traded Gensel. Guys, I I don't care what they think this is. You traded Jake Hensel. Who? Didn't he want to stay?

Yes. His teammates wanted him. He wanted to stay. They wanted to extend him. By the way, that's a rebuild. Since last show, Ryan Graves has played two more games, still has not registered a point.

That's a rebuild. What are we doing?

Well, and I'm just trying to figure out.

Okay, so- So the rebuilding team is open to ditching players who don't help them He's moving forward.

Well, so I think I'm looking at this, and I wanted to ask you guys about this because this felt like, okay, Eric Carlson at $10 million. Eric Carlson at 11.5 was a lot. Eric Carlson at 10 is a lot, right? Just due to age. But he's got 32 points in 49 games. I know a team, the Leifs, who could use an offensive defenseman. Is Eric Carlson at $7 million an attractive thing where you give up major assets for? Jesse Blake.

Do the Penguins have retention slots available?

That is a good question. I would imagine that they do. I think the only team that is retentioned out is the San Jose Sharks at this point, but I will check that. The reason I asked this is if they start to go down that road and retain on some of these contracts. Three buyout retained. Oh, they have three buyout retained.

Yeah, so they don't-They don't even have retention. That's not possible. Oh, my God.

That's not even possible.

Yeah.

So they would have to They have to move these guys at full Jack.

They would have to get a third team involved, and they'll get pennies on the dollar because you have to get a third team involved, but you weren't able to retain yourself.

You got to pay that team to retain, obviously. It's significant. You're boned. Here's the other thing. Here are the three people that they have retained on/boughtout. Jeff Petrie was a retention when they traded him to Detroit.

That probably He comes off the books what?

This summer? After this. Yeah, this summer.

Okay, so maybe they do something- 1.5. Yeah.

Riley Smith, they had, which they moved. They wanted to move him. They wanted to get him from Vegas. That was one of Dubas' first moves was to get him from Vegas.

They retained to send him to New York.

1.25 million. Oh, Kyle, bro. That expires this summer. Then Jack Johnson, which was a buyout, which was a Ron Hex doll move, which was stupid. They bought him out. When's that? That's two years from me. Almost a million dollars a year.

What are they doing, man? Well, what they're doing is they're still... It's not all doom and gloom for the penguins. Really? Going forward, it's a world of shit.

But with those slots you were just talking about, one of them is a buyout, right? Yes. So they still do have one retention spot. Oh, they got one? Yeah. Because you get three retention spots, but the buyouts don't count for that. So I was wrong. They can retain salary. You said the Jack Johnson one was a buy. Yes. Okay. So they got one a retention spot left. Okay.

So there you go. If you have a retention spot- Can we get back to that? Eric Carlson, who is valuable on one side, not so much on the other. As long as he's never taking an offensive zone start, I'm happy with a guy like that on my team at seven million bucks, especially where the cap is going. I know he's 34. I know he's had injuries, but the guy is still scoring a lot of points. Hey, the Leaps could benefit from a player like Eric Carlson.

He's not a bad player. It's just a ridiculous amount of money.

What What you're going to need, though, is significant assets back. In order to get those... Like Marcus Petterson, I think CJ said... Julian asked CJ on the show the other day, What does Marcus Petterson get? Cj is like, Probably a second. If you get a bunch of bidders, maybe you're able to push that to a low first.

That's pretty good.

Okay, that's great. But you don't want to trade all of these guys who are like, Hey, we don't want to trade. I don't want to give you any of my good cards. I got Pokémon cards. I don't want to give you any of my good cards, but I want your good card.

Get ready to get a bunch of energy cards back.

If you could take Eric Carlson for just the salary, would you guys do that?

For the Leaps? Yeah.

Any team. The full salary, 10 mil? Just take it. I don't think so. The pens are just giving it to you for a seventh round pick. Are you taking that?

You got two more years after this one at 10 mil.

If I'm dubious and I'm unloading this deal, I'm sending it away for just the cap space that I get, right?

Yeah, but what competitive team can He didn't do that.

Even if we're, okay, we'll retain on some of that. Let's say it's seven million that Adam's saying. If I'm dubious, I'm giving that away. I'll just send it away.

I think he has to.

I don't think there needs to be anything coming back the other way that significant. Oh, I understand. There's no trade that needs to be done.

Because the cap space is more valuable.

If I'm Dubas, I'm looking at this and it's like, I just want out from under this deal. I'll take all of that cap space back.

Part of the reason the sharks retained so little is people forget the contract's has just pitched out the door. At the time, it was like, whewf. Thank goodness he got those out the door.

Man, I hate Grandland.

One of them was Grandland, who was not a good Penguin, though.

Yes, he wasn't.

It's important to note he was not a good Penguin. He's been a great shark.

But the money was almost been going back and forth between the Shards and Penguins.

Jan Rudha, and there was another big-ish player.

I can't remember. Wasn't it the Petri deal?

That's Detroit. Is it?

Okay.

It was different. It might have been three-way. Oh, maybe it was Yeah. There was a lot of money going the other way. You would have to do something like that again.

Here's what I want to bring up if Chris Littang is well and truly available. First off, he has a no movement clause, full no movement clause. So he gets to choose. Even then, if you work out a deal, Chris Littang is- Mike Hoffman.

Oh, Mike Hoffman.

Yes.

Hoffman, Grandland, and Ruta in a first. I forgot. Was the Carlson deal. Yeah, that was 4.5 for Hoffman, 5 for Grandland, and 2.7 for Ruta.

It's pretty much Carlson for a first.

This deal, by the way, for Littang is not a Dubas signing. This is Ron Hexdall. You can't talk about Kyle Dubas with some of these deals without talking about Chris Littang, or sorry, without talking about Ron Hexdall and Brian Burke. However, it's not like Kyle came in and made it better.

What GM comes into a good situation?

It's rare. Here's what I'm going to give you. Do you know that Chris Littang has three more years after this one at 6.1 million dollars? He is 37 years old.

That's not going to age great.

It's also Robita, right? That goes on LTIR.

I would think so.

Well, I mean, of all the players who go on Robita Island where I'm like, that's some bullshit. Chris Littang, it's a miracle he's still playing. Yes. Miracle.

He's had heart attacks and crazy, crazy injuries. You didn't have a heart attack. You know what I'm talking about, He had at least two strokes that I can think of. And 51 points last year.

Gee, he's incredible. He's probably a Hall of Famer.

I think so.

At minimum, he's a Pittsburgh wins legend, multiple-time Stanley Cup champion. But if one day they're like, Yeah, he's not playing again. We're putting him on LTIR.

I'll be like, Yeah. I think everybody understands.

Everyone's, Yep, deserved. Don't even investigate it. Just let it happen. Don't even Here's the thing with. What?

That's nuts. Who is... Oh, it's... Oh, okay, fine.

The thing with Chris Lutang is he shoots right.

Oh, stop.

No, I'm serious. So is Carlson.

Someone is always going to want him, but he might be one of those guys who... What I'd be interested to know is what is the money owed on those years?

Good question. Because-we'll look that up.

Okay, I got to uproot my family and play another year somewhere else for 2 mil.

It's not great. 4.2 3.8, 3.8, and 3.8. So there are some savings, roughly 40 % in the last two years. But this year, it's 6.2. Next year, it's 4.8, and it goes to 3.8..

So okay, I'm going to agree to a trade. Okay, let's rank.

He has a 10-team no-trade list starting years five and six, by the way, I should mention.

So he'll have a decision to make, report to the team. You Your name is going to pop up in those rumors. Do you play those final two years somewhere else because they're moving you? They are. Or do you just retire? How is that going to make Sid feel? How's that going to make Gino feel? Now, sorry. What I was trying to say a few moments ago, the Penguins are four points out of a playoff spot. Yeah, the teams ahead of them have a game or two in hand, but I keep saying it, everyone's a hot week away, except for the Sabers. Everyone is a hot week away. They're right there. The Penguin's problems moving forward are obvious and painful, but I wouldn't be surprised if this fire sail goes away real fast if the ship writes itself.

Isn't it funny, though? We've been saying that for 18 months. If they could just write themselves.

Where's the evidence that that's going to happen?

I know, but they're right there. I think some penguins fans- That's a very child-lubish way of looking at it. I think some penguins fans are... No, Adam, if it was me, I'd blow the thing up. But I think some penguins fans are like, All right, we get it. We're fucked. We're screwed going forward. What do we do? If you're... Okay, they're four points up, right? Okay. How do we get four points in? How do we leapfrog all the teams ahead of us and get one of the wild cards?

They have to be a good team to do that.

Well, they made the first step towards that by saying, Tristan Jari is not playing here anymore. Okay, there you go. We can assume that our goalies, most nights, not going to let in a goal in the first three shots.

How about Montreal? They got a guy back from injury. They made a pretty nice trade-With Carrier.to boost their defensive depth.

Kirby Doc is starting to look like Kirby And they got a little bit of luck by calling up a goalie who I don't even think the Habs knew he was that good.

He hasn't lost yet. So Is there some luck involved there? Sure. Of course there is. Where's the Penguin's version of that? You're telling me whatever the Penguin's version of the Carrier deal isn't out there? Kyle, Barry Trotz. 1,800 Barry Trotz. Is there anybody to deal with them? Before you get to the bottom of... Yes. He's feeling good this morning. They came back from a 5,1 deficit.

Call him. So he's not going to trade then? Maybe. Because now, listen, they're just a hot week away. Not the Prets, not the Prets.

No, no, no. There's five or six teams around the league who are not a hot week away. They're one of them.

I think the Penguins would be much better accepting what they are. I think we've known that for a year and a half now, especially with the goal differential is the minus 32 is ugly. It's last in the Eastern conference by a wide margin. I think there's so much evidence here that this team doesn't have the ability to turn around. I would like for them to pick a direction, whether it's we're going to... If they want to buy, do that. Go all in. If you have Crosby for two years and you want to say, We're doing everything we can to to win with Crosby, then there are things you can do to go in that direction. If you want to keep selling futures, you can.

It's your- But they said that they don't want to.

Right. It's irresponsible to do that. But if you were to say, We're going for it, then do that. And then the fire sale, if you're going in that direction, then tear the whole thing down. My least favorite thing in pro sports is the team that's finishing 11th in a conference, 12th in a conference, 10, even. That little middle area is where it's going to kill you because you don't have an immediate direction you're going in. I'd like to see the penguins, after all of these years of success, to pick, Hey, we're going to fully rebuild, or we're truly going to try and sell everything for the future to try and win for two years here. Pick one.

I think you got to try Okay, listen, we already know they're not going to decide to lose. They're too stubborn, they're not going to do it.

I don't think that's necessarily true. I think the team can show you that we need to decide to lose, and Kyle can pick that direction if he's He's continually being forced by the performance on the ice to do that. I think Kyle Dubas, because of his giant-ass contract for $100 billion in 20 years, can sway management to do that because he should have that pull if he truly is running the show as the President of the entire club.

Last show, I brought up Jack Rosselvic in a JT Miller trade. I'm not saying this player is available or Kyle Dubas should go out and get him. But what if you were able to go out, get guy who can help you win now, right? Get into the playoffs, and if the trade deadline, first or second week of March, shows up and you're still in the same spot, you blow it to frigging smithereens. I don't have a problem with him giving the team the next six weeks or so to show us what they're made of. But if what they're made of is still this, volcano.

Yeah, you picked a direction. That's That's exactly what I'm just asking Kael Dubas to, whether it's, yeah, you want to give them till Four Nations, and after that, then you pick your direction, fine, cool. Use the time that you got available to you, but just pick a direction here. You have a lot of contracts here that a lot of teams will want, or you can just simply get rid of because the money is not worth it, and you can use that cash space for future assets and start really rebuilding.

I think, Jesse, I wanted to back your point. I think it's irresponsible to It's irresponsible to trade futures. But if you decide to be irresponsible, which is continuing this idea that we're going to support Sid until the end, then you need to be irresponsible in that direction. You need to trade futures. Holding them is the irresponsible thing to do because you're fucking with Sid's legacy, right? And you're not picking a direction. And I think- You're middling. You're middling. And you can't be middling. You can hit on draft picks in the middle of that round. Might take three years to develop them.

There's a lot of teams that are in a really difficult spot right now because they don't know what to do because they're all a hot week away.

The Rangers- But you got to put yourself in a position where you can't be a hot week.

You got to look at the standings realistically if you're the Pittsburgh Penguins. There's one, two, three, four teams between you. And look how terrible. I brought the goal differential before, but the minus 32 goal differential is disgusting for the the Penguins there. And you got to understand that if you want to get into the playoff, you have to bank on the Canadians not being hot anymore, the Bruins not turning into the Bruins towards the end of the season, Columbus not being really good, the Rangers not turning things around, the Flyers probably being the flyers and not capitalizing on anything. But you have to jump all of these.

They're one three straight.

I don't think the Pittsburgh is looking at these standards and be like, you know what? We're going to pass Montreal any day now.

By the way, having seen what the Rangers have done in the last 10 I have a hard time believing that the Rangers are not making the playoffs this year. They hit me on that, but I have a real hard time.

They're really good at not closing out games in the last week. It hasn't been pretty in losing.

But that game last night versus Vancouver, you saw a real fight from the Rangers. Even the goalie challenging Bradley K'Chuck.. That was hilarious. Yes, the Rangers are bad at closing out games. And usually, teams that aren't performing to their max are bad at closing out games. And you look at the 6, 1, and 3, three of those games are overtime games. They could have won, right? Are the Penguins that, as Jesse says? Are the penguins the good luck Blue Jackets who had They've been a tragedy to start this year. They've come together as a team. They've been disastously managed for well over a decade, probably two, if you're to read what Aaron Portsline said, the team that Parody forgot. And yet here they are. They're I love teams like this, Band of Mary Men, who are like, We're too ignorant to know what our weaknesses are. Let's just go for it. You finally got the Senator sniffing blood. Playoffs hasn't happened since 17 playoffs. Montreal-canadians haven't seen a playoff game since the finals in 2021. They're jacked.

This is a fantastic year in the NHL. It is. I don't think people are paying enough attention.

Race-wise, it's awesome. The race is great. Are the Penguins any of those teams?

Real Statistically, no.

They got a worse points percentage than the Red Wings. Yes.

Oh, my God.

Dude.

The Red Wings, who are hotter than them, by the way.

Yeah, I don't. Yeah, Penguins are three, four, and three in their last 10, man. The Red Wings?

Oh, my God. They were in such a deep hole. 6, 1, and 3 in the last 10. They still have 47 points.

No, what did you just say?

6, 3, and 1.

The Red Wings are what?

They were in such a deep hole.

The Pittsburgh penguins are just right there with them.

No, no, no, no, no, Nestled into that nice little second wild card spot.

I look at the seven that I say the penguins are in such a deep hole.

Now, I would like to buy it.

If you're Kyle, you give them a couple of weeks, whatever.

I'd like to bring something up. Yeah, Kyle. Yeah, maybe. To quote his favorite-You're a hot week away. Maybe.

I need that on a shirt. Oh, maybe.

Sorry, I missed it. The Chinese farmer. Yeah. Okay, so let's chat a little bit here about the of me, please. Yes. Sorry. This made the rounds, and I'm pretty sure Sportsnet is engagement farming when they're doing this, and they know how to... There's nothing wrong with that. Fine. Go on engagement farm. But Leef fans were pissed off. They were That.

They made us all automatically follow Austin Matthews. Angry.

Yeah. Leef fans want to suspend Sportsnet for three games.

Oh, yeah.

For incompetence.

They cross-check us in the face.

In their NHL power ranking. Have you seen this? No. So the NHL power ranking, Sportsnet puts these out all the time. And the oilers are at the top of it. What a surprise. The Capitals are number two. If you've been watching Caps game, you understand why they're unreal.

They beat the oilers last night after the oilers were the better team the whole time.

If the Leifs can't win the Cup this year, I sure hope Logan Thompson does, because I will never forget, traded at his own autograph session in Vegas last year for a third.

Logan Thompson? Ovechkin might break Gretzky's record in fewer games this year and then win the Cup, and your answer was Logan Thompson.

Have you seen Logan Thompson's numbers?

Yes, I have. Bunkers. But it doesn't... Logan Thompson. Ovechkin.

Sorry, I'm cheering for the guy that wasn't selected for Team Canada. But the Toronto Maple Leaps power rankings as of January 20th according to Sportsnet. Toronto rankings have them below the St. Louis Blues. What? But above the Philadelphia Flyers for 15th.

In the League?

Yes. Now, fair enough, they had a bad week and a half leading up to that a little, maybe.

This came out two days ago. They won the last two games before that.

This is what people are saying. Hey, man.

Fifteenth is crazy.

That's why I'm suggesting. Here's me going, this doesn't make sense. Let me rationalize it. Engagement farming.

The Blues have been fine. They've been pretty good. They're Jim Montgomery.

The players have been fine. What are we talking about? Behind the Blue Jackets, Panthers, Devils, Avalanche, senators are ranked, I think, in the top 10. Nites, Kings, Hurricane Stars, Lightning, Jets, and Caps and Oilers.

The leaf schedule leading into the writing of that was win, win, win, win, win, lost, lost, lost, win, win. What are we... 15. Nearly halfway down the 32 team league. To say the least, disagree. Where are the Devils?

Devils are...

Are they above the leaves or below? Above.

Why? 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11th. Just below the abs.

They have two wins in their last 10 minutes.

They put the senators above the abs and Devils.

Above the Devils, yes, because the Devils have been slipping badly. What? Who are the 14 teams?

The 14 teams?

Ahead of the leaf. Okay.

Oilers, Capitals, Jets, Lightning, Stars, Hurricains, Kings. Lightning? Senators, Avalanche, Devils, Panthers, Blue Jackets, Blues, Maple Leaves.

Okay. Yeah.

So engagement farming?

No, I mean, we all give our opinions on the Internet, and sometimes people agree with us, and sometimes they don't.

Jesse, what do you think? I don't think- Does that rankle you? No. That doesn't emotionally move you?

No. I think somebody just made something up. Yeah? That's not a very good power ranking.

No, certainly not.

No.

That's not I want to talk you regularly with power ranking.

I'm not taking it seriously because that doesn't make any sense. The St. Louis Blues are 21st in league standings, and the Maple leaves are fourth.

Now, these are power rankings week by week? Who had a good performance this week?

Yeah, that's fair.

Am I misunderstanding what this is?

Yeah. If they're taking a whole look at the season that doesn't compute. So I just think they're not very good power ranking, so I'm not going to get worked up about it.

But if it's what's happened recently, there's zero justification for putting the Devils higher. There's zero justification for putting them anywhere near the top 10, if that's the case. They've been one of the worst teams in the league over the last 10.

Right.

I don't think whoever was in charge of doing those power rankings did a very good job. I'm not going to get worked up on this core work.

I disagree. Yeah. Okay, that's fine. I disagree. I disagree so hard that I went through all the levels of anger I have and reached numbness. Okay. Oh, that's so bad. I I don't care.

Then let's talk about that game against Tampa. What do we draw from that? The Leaps win 5-3.

Really fun game. Really fun game.

You get really a great game on both sides. I think that- Great match. The Lightning were in the first half of a back-to-back. They did start Jonas Johansson. You almost get a perfectly executed Michigan from Austin Matthews. Jonas Johansson stops it. He read it.

You're allowed to stop them as it turns out.

It's crazy. There are The best players for the Leaps are stepping up. Tavares is still not in the lineup, but the lineup looked good. Minton is back. Where do we want to start, guys, with this game?

We could start with Fraser Mitten, I guess.

Here's the thing with Fraser Mitten. I want to set this up, and then I want to hear what you guys have to say. Fraser Mitten has got an opportunity here to be the Leaps' third-line center that they need right now, and it allows them to not make a trade at the trade deadline. It allows you to It's down to the wing where he's better. It allows you to potentially add on either wing or defense, although I think their wing has been good unless you can really upgrade. Or just hold steady and go, Hey, we got our own... You know how they call people who are going to free agency and own rental, which is bullshit, by the way? Fraser Mitten would be an own rental because here's a guy that they did not have playing in the lineup, coming in and filling a role that they need. There's your rental. That's That's a real own rental. Own rental for a guy going to free agency, that's not an own rental. That's a member of your team who's contract-Retting them from your farm team? Yeah. Well, and that's how I would look at it. That's a better definition.

So if it is Fraser Mitten, that, Steve and Jesse, Jesse, you want to go first since you were in the building?

I got no problem with Fraser Mitten being 3C. I think he's mature enough, ready enough to take a step in that role and have a shot at it, especially because I don't think Domi can be trusted right at that position. I think he's much more useful on the wing, and there's enough evidence of that. Tavarez not being around really, I don't want to say it hurts them because they've been winning, but having Tavarez there would be so helpful right now. But with this lineup, they don't have him. But Fraser Mitten in his time in the NHL, has not shown anything that he can't hold that role. I don't remember him having a big mistake that's costed the least anything. That's all you want out of somebody who's so young and so fresh in the NHL is just to not make those big mistakes. And I think he's adapted to Craig Burway system really easily on the defensive end where he's been very responsible, especially between Domi and Robertson. Yeah, it's been great. So I got no problem with Minton getting an extended run here and being 3C.

He had every excuse to, I think, be crap in that game. He was on the ice for a goal against, but he had every excuse. He gets called up from the minors and sits there for a couple of games. So he's not used to the It's his first NHL game in over a month.

Craig Berube said he wanted him to practice with the team before he put him in.

That's why he didn't play this weekend, right? Yes. Okay.

Yeah, fine. That's fair.

I'm just giving you the explanation.

No, I just remember we really disagreed with it last show, and I'm like, all right, fine. I mean, any explanation seems okay when the outcome is good, right? The outcome has been good. But when it It comes of Fraser Mitten, like, man, that third line at times this season, I have dreaded them being on the ice. Just dreaded it. And he had an excuse to be crap. Domi had an excuse to be crap. How many games has he played at left wing this season? Probably less than half a dozen. Every time they took to the ice, they looked A-OK. They were great. And Berube, I noticed it's a one goal game. He was using them with about five minutes left. This is a guy who will shorten his bench if he doesn't believe in you. So the fact that... That's one of the later shifts nick Robertson has had this season in a game where the Leaps have been winning. Barube hasn't been shy to be like, All right, we're going to go with the third line. No, Not you, nick. We're going to throw someone else in there. No, he just threw them out there as is because they've been good.

Another guy who's been really good after playing well, I thought, and then being a healthy scratch and then being a guy where I'm like, What do you even do here? Pontus Holmberg. He's looked good when given the opportunity. The Leifs keep doing this. One of the questions I got asked a few LFRs ago was, Why does it take the core four becoming the core three in order for them to be great? I don't have a good answer for you.

It just feels like-Because they're stale playing together.

When all four of them... Yeah, but they're not.

When all four of them are-When all four of them are-then they're stale.

God, when they're all great at the same time, you can't beat them.

But it's so rare. So you shouldn't resign John Tovar.

I think you resigned But I think you don't put them all on the same power play units.

God, Marner's crazy.

That's what I think.

He's crazy. He's never looked this good.

52 assists now on the season for Mitch Marner.

Listen, people are Every time I say that, what are you talking about? You haven't been paying attention. Sorry. Nope. Never been this good. Never been this good.

No, I think you're right. And I wanted to shout somebody else out here, too, guys. Matthew Nies, who did go for a bit of a bump. He went into that game in 10 career games versus Tampa. He had six goals and six assists. So now in 11 career games, he has eight goals and seven assists.

Screw this team in particular.

The reason is Amelie Arena, which is where he lost the frozen four. And so he hates that arena and therefore has turned it into... Because athletes do this, I hate that team. It's personal.

That one in particular.

Let's talk a little bit about the resurgence of the Matthews Marner his line, which a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about them versus Carolina throwing up minus six, minus six, and a minus five.

Well, they look bad, you see.

I don't feel bad about it. What do you attribute the turnaround to, guys? And it was quick. It's a quick turnaround.

It is a quick turnaround. Everyone looks really healthy. Marner looks fit as a fiddle. Matthews, listen, we keep going through the timeline. He was out for a month, came back, did not look good, sat out again, came back. He hasn't looked as good since last year. Whatever was ailing him, I'm not going to say is cured because they said they're going to have to manage it this season. Whatever they've done, he looks good. There were games earlier this season where, yeah, he's getting shots, he's getting chances. He doesn't look good at all. Yeah. He looks frigging great. That line, at their best, skates the dog shit out of you. Dog shit out of you. And they do a lot of it. They create a lot of their offense with defense. When they bring the puck into your zone, yeah, you can take the puck off them. You can interrupt what they're doing. They're going to take it back. Matthews and Marner, they're so good at having two guys on the puck. If it's Matthews and Marner or Marner and Nies or Nies and Matthews, whatever it is, they're so good at just hunting and hounding you.

And There were times, somewhat recently, where Nies was playing timidly when he came back from his injury. And I think that caused the whole deck of cards to come down a little bit. When he is playing the modified Jeep that we know he is as a human being, 22 years old, 6'3, 227 pounds. I'll be still my beating card.

Benoît said in Morning Skate today, he doesn't realize how bleeping strong he is.

I love Benny. You can never make me hate Benny. But when Nize realizes who he is, I don't know what you're supposed to do. I don't know what you're supposed to do with that whole line.

Other than if you're Sam Bennett, torpedo him in the head in the playoff.

Yeah, choke, slam him. No, it's fine. That happens every game.

So, Jesse, Did you get a sense from... First off, you told me yesterday offhand that Willy didn't have a whole lot of time for the media on- No, he couldn't be bothered with us.

After a win. On what day? Was that Monday? Yeah. So he came out and... Because Craig Berube pregame had said that quote. It went around about how he's been trying to talk to Willy and learn about Willy, and he doesn't do a lot of talking at Willy. He tries to listen a whole bunch. So obviously, the first opportunity we get to talk to Nielander, that's the first thing we're going to ask him. He had really no response to that. It was less than a couple of words in response to Masters, I think it was who asked him about Brew Bay saying, Hey, what do you guys talk about? He was just talking about things. That was his response. Then he answered three more and then was like, All right, guys, and walked away.

He said it's three wins, big deal.

Yeah. He had no time for three losses. He had no time for three wins.

Are you aware of the gem from Mike Augello. That's Mike and Buffalo. What's that? We were talking about, Yeah, Willy in interviews. He doesn't go for very long. He goes, Yeah, that's why I call him 92nd Willy. And we all went, No. Mike, I don't think so.

I don't think that one should stick.

Yeah, I don't think people are down with that one, man.

You also get different vibes of Nielander when if he showers before his post game or after. On Monday, he went and put on his suit and take a shower afterwards or before the post game, he comes out and he's wearing his suit and he's not shirtless this time. I think he has less time once he's already halfway out the building. I think he had even less time on Monday.

He's ready to go home and walk his dogs. Yeah.

Couldn't get more than four words at any answer. Couldn't get more than, I think it was five, four questions in, and he walked away.

Yeah, Willy, you gave us one zinger. You keep playing like this. That's enough. Yeah.

He doesn't care because they won and he scored. So what does he have to say to anybody? But that's him.

Where are you going again? Was it Succo or whatever it is?

Succo?

Succo, sorry. Get some pasta.

You can tell you're not from Toronto.

I know. I know. I've never I've been to Succo. I would love to.

No, you would like it. It's Italian. Italian food.

What's that supposed to be?

You are Italian. You like Italian food.

That's a stereotype.

Oh, you don't?

Oh, I didn't say that. I just said it's a stereotype.

I give that line, turning around Matthews Marner, Neylander. I give that Matthews Marner. Nye's turning around being so good. I'm giving most of the credit to Austin Matthews being on his unbelievable goal streak since he's come back. But Mitch Marner hasn't really changed. I think he's been really consistent all year. We're not giving him enough credit. Like as Steve said, he's at his best right now, and it's been a whole season's worth of it. But I think the real reason that the entire line is now going, and not just Mitch, when Austin's out going by himself, is that Austin has returned to his form from last year. And since returning on January fourth, he's on a better goal scoring pace than his 69 goal season. So right now, he's on a 72 point something goal. It's eight goals in nine games. That's unbelievable for any top goal score. So I think Austin Matthews is all the way back.

He has 19 this season, not in the top 10. You have to be at 20. I had it right here. You have to be at 23 to be in the top 10. Willy's got 28, tied with Sam Reinhardt. Leon's got 34. Can Austin Matthews get, assuming he plays every game, can he get at least into the top five by the end of the season. He's so good. Assuming the top five will be somewhere in the 50 plus goal range.

Who's fifth?

Currently, it's a tie between Shifley and Point with 27, so it's real tight at the top.

Those guys are real good in these eight goals back. It's going to be... I would bet no. But if there were anyone who could, who would just be like, actually, I'm from outer space, him.

I want to talk a little bit about the leaf's breakaway chances, specifically, Willy, who is a breakaway king. I'm noticing, and I don't know if you guys have seen it, too, shot deception techniques that they're using. Have you ever noticed when Willy's on a breakaway, he's on the foot that makes it seem like he's going to shoot right and he ends up shooting left? It looks like not to be Mighty Ducks about this.

No, I just go, oh.

Yeah, because watch him the next time he does it. There seems to be like, Mighty Ducks was like, well, he's fancy. He's going to go glove side, not block. Gunner Stahl should have gone blocker side. You know what I mean? It feels like he needs to do less than other players.

He just shoots it, right? He doesn't have to do all this. He's really good at shooting the frigging fuck.

But you have to deceive a little.

No, of course. There's something behind that. And obviously, he's tricking goalies, right? Right.

And it's because... I mean, he Austin, I think, are doing it. I'm wondering if the rest of the team can learn it from them. You know who's- Robertson could learn that.

You know who Willy's really rubbing off on is McMahon. And I hope they stay together.

He's doing a lot of rush goals, McMahon.

It's not just his shot because his shot is really good. He's getting a lot more like, break aways and half break aways. It's developing. He's getting better. I know he's not a kid. He's Bobby McMahon is deceptively old just because of how late of a bloomer he was. He's like 28, 29. Watch for Bobby McMahon, man.

I think I had a screenshot of what you were talking about, but I can't find it on that breakaway goal. What you're saying, Adam, is correct in that when he does his leg pump on the... I'm trying to...

It's usually his left leg, isn't it?

Yeah, depending on what angle you're watching the camera from. Whatever foot he is, that's typically a shot that goes on the right side of the goal tender. And that's how goal tenders react. I'm looking at the body. I'm not necessarily tracking the buck and where it's going. The goalie is leaning towards that side, and he simply shoots it on the other side, which is not how you're supposed to shoot the buck. He's shooting the buck in an unorthodox way on the breakaway, which is fooling the goalie. The breakaway he had on Monday is the exact same technique he used in the previous breakaway in the previous game. He's just been fool goaltenders by shooting on the wrong side that his body is supposed to be shooting at.

I love when star players just take, Okay, so the usual rules don't apply to me. Oh, you're preparing like I'm normal. Well, I'm going to make you pay for that.

The Toronto Maple East are playing a team in Columbus that is on a hot streak, feeling themselves. It's interesting that they're doing this with two goalies. If you don't count Jet Griefs, Mers Meers-Leakens and Tarasoff. Merzlicans has a 306 goals against average. Tarasoff has got a 364.

You have to score four goals to win most games.

Merzlicans has an 890 save percentage. Tarasoff has 72.

So they're doing- Tarasoff is on the way up.

Yeah, I guess he's better than he was. He is. He is. Grimes is the only one, and he's played five games. He's the only one that has an above 500 save percentage. Above 500, excuse me, above 900. I hope so. Warenzky and Marchanco have 51 and 50 points. Monahan has 41, Varonkov 31, Ken Johnson, 27, and Fentilly, 23.

Warenzky has 50 points.

Yeah, he's in my fantasy team. He's the best pick I've ever made. He's going to get Norris votes. He is.

We've been paying too much attention to the goals. He's got a lot of goal.

Holy shit. Thirty-six assists, Mr. Warenzky.

He's got 14 goals?

Yeah, second on the team. 15 goals. Fifteen goals? Yeah. Oh, man.

Yeah, Yeah, that's a really underrated Norris candidate.

Holy crap. If the Leaps can upset their goal tending tonight, they can win this game. But Columbus kicked their ass the last time. And it was, by the way, coming off a game against Tampa where they looked really good.

And who was in net? I don't remember. Hildeby. And Hildeby is in net in this one, too.

So it's a bit of a redemption.

You hope so. You hope so. Hildeby, in his last game, had a better start, if I remember correctly. He'd given up not very good goal against Buffalo, and then a not very good goal. I think it was against the Flyers. Get a good start. The Leaps, as a team, haven't had a lot of very good starts recently. Tampa, I thought they were great. So honestly, the Leaps, outside of the first 10 minutes of a game, have been fine recently. Perfectly fine. But for most games, it's bad start, and you go from there.

The Knucks and senators lost last night, gentlemen. Knucks have been losing except for against the Leifs. Maybe that's why they're powering.

Except on Hockey Night.

Yeah.

They beat the Leaps, they beat the Oilers. Yeah.

They beat the Leaps, they beat the Oilers. Braided K'Chuck and the senators lost last night. Senators, obviously, braided K'Chuck hasn't had a 0.8 games, which is rough. Different teams at different parts. But there's some similarities here. Both are fighting for the playoffs. You I always look at and go, they're more talented than their results suggest. We know what the issue is in Vancouver. We know that the JT Miller thing is going to play itself out. It sounds like, and this was crazy, did you see the Patrick Alvine press conference?

Which one? It feels like he does one every week.

The one where he talked about Rick Tucket, and this is one that's on the horizon that I was shocked by. He said something to the effect of, I'll paraphrase it, We want him here long term, but it's a two-way street. Meaning, Rick Tucket at the end of this year is a free agent coach and might just decide to lead.

That organization doesn't learn, eh? They don't learn. Remember when Jim Benning was their GM? And I was like, Stop putting him in front of a mic. It's mean. He can't do it. Every time he does it, it's a mistake. Stop. And now they have an entire roster of new people. And We're just going to say so many words. Stop trying to talk your way out of shit. Go on the ice and win. If you don't, it's not going to work. You can't talk You're not going to knock your way out of losing. Oh, yeah. Well, with talk it and bless the media for asking the right questions, obviously, to elicit these answers. Canux management, please learn from your predecessors and shut up. Dude, you keep backing yourself into corners and trades and now with the coach. What are we supposed to extrapolate from that quote?

Well, that Rick Tucket is holding out. What else would you extrapolate?

Or on happy He, or this, or that, or that.

It sounds like they've offered him a contract, and it sounds like he's going... I'm not sure.

Damn.

And that's an indictment, man.

You've got to shut the hell up.

Well, and listen, it doesn't It would shock me that owner that is known for chaos creates chaos in organization. You see it with the Rangers. Owner known for chaos in multiple sports creates chaos at the management level. The owner in Vancouver for as much as he loves the Knucks, and no one can doubt that, is absolutely known as a chaos creator. There are people in your life who you know right now who are probably in your family who are like, I try to stay away from them because all they do is cause shit wherever they go. It just out of their pores. It's the way they are. I'm looking at the Knux and going, you have the best defenseman in the league. You have three of the best forwards in the league. Demko needs to be better, but he's coming off of an injury. You got lucky with Lincoln and how strong he's been. He's been awesome. You were in the second round. You drove the Oilers to game seven. And if Brock Bester is playing, I think that's a different outcome, guys. One game away from the conference finals last year, and now we're losing games like this.

Well, what do we start the show with? The Oilers supporting Connor McDavid, and a lot of the hockey world laughed at them and said, What a bunch of losers. Who supports who with the Knux?

By the way, I just want to say before you keep going, they lost to the Sabers last night.

Canox. Yeah. Sure.

So keep going.

They're pretty bad. I meant the savers, but yeah. If I'm Rick Great talk. Thanks, Pat. Atta boy. Way to throw that grenade in my lap. You haven't thrown enough of those. I'm trying to have a private contract negotiation with the team, and the general manager just comes out and says that.

I'm trying to manage one of the most volatile locker rooms in the sport.

Can you throw that one out there into the media. I can't wait to get asked about that. It's so bad that I'm like, is this intentional to distract us all from the Petterson Miller stuff, which has very quickly become just the Miller stuff because they made a choice. Yeah, it's clear they're trading Miller if they're going to trade anyone. I mean, it seems clear Petty was the problem for a little bit, and we just alternate blame.

And maybe the Knucks, the whole strategy is just juggle until they hopefully make it.

Did you know, as of this morning, there are six Canadian teams in the playoffs. That's great. I don't remember the last time that was the case. Who's the one? I'd been hanging out. Vancouver. They're the only one. The only one. And what sucks is if the Vancouver Knucks leapfrogged the second Wild Wild Card team, it kicks Calgary out.

So unless Colorado goes on some crazy losing streak- Somebody's not making it.

Six is the best we can do. Jesse, I want to pivot to the senators, unless you have something you want to add to the Knux. With Vancouver, the thing that stood out to me about that game last night was they were leading after two periods, and they blew the game.

That is something that Vancouver has done consistently all season long.

Their win percentage wins when leading after two periods, their 18th in the league, and I had their win percentage. Win percentage when leading after two periods is 31st in the league. What is it? They have a 682 win percentage when leading after two periods. In comparison, the only team worse than that is the San Jose Sharks, who have a 500 win percentage when leading after two periods. How many games? If you look at the teams who are near the top of there, the Toronto Maple Leaves, Minnesota Wild, Seattle Kraken, all are 1,000% when leading after two periods. Then you have the top teams in there like Winnipeg, Florida, Colorado, New Jersey, who are all above 900. That just speaks to me strictly, you don't know how to defend at all. This team, I don't think right now is a playoff team at all. The West is so tight, and there's a lot of good teams in there like St. Louis and Calgary that I think are easily going to leapfrog them in the standings by the time we reach the end if they don't learn how to play defense. I know the Tyler Myers suspension doesn't help them here because they're already thin on D, and now you lose Tyler Myers on the back end.

But Rick talk- You missed Hronik for a while? He missed Hronik all season long. Now, Now he's back in the lineup, and obviously, it's going to take a little bit of time for him to get back up to the speed that he was at last season, playing at an all-star pace. He's got no choice for the next three games. He's going to be taken on a bigger role. And he's got to be playing. And that chemistry that he has with Hughes needs to get up back to speed. But Quinn Hughes can't do everything on his own. Right now, it is Quinn Hughes and then five on their defenseman trying to play defense on this team. And Rick Tucket has them playing a type of hockey that he didn't have them playing last season, where they are a leaky ship off of the rush. Teams are able to take advantage of this team and come back in games time after time after time more than any other team besides the San Jose Sharks in the National Hockey League. It's a bad formula, and they've been doing this all season long. This isn't a small sample size.

This is from the beginning of the season. They've been terrible at this.

What's their team safe percentage?

I don't have that in front of me.

Oh, I thought you might have. I feel like you can't put this on goal tending. Lankinen has been in there for the majority of it and been so good. Is Demko bad? I'm trying to think of who else they've had in net. I don't think Sheilov's team safe percentage is 30th in the league at 89.

Really?

Well, okay. That'll do it. There you go.

Yikes. Can't win like that.

So the other side of that is the Ottawa senators. I'm surprised. Me too. The Ottawa senators are our first wild card team. Second is Montreal. Boston, Columbus, US, New York, and Philly are all within two points, which is a crazy race. It's a great race. It's awesome. The senators are five, three, and two in their last 10. Really respectable record.

Totally fine.

The headline today is senators need more from Bradley Kichuk. Zero points in his last eight. I have a hard time with that headline because Bradley Kitchuk has been the senator. If we're talking about a player who goes on a... It's a devastatingly cold streak. Listen, I get I have a hard time going, Well, yeah, it's Bradley K'Chuck. This is the problem with the way the senators have been built, and they have major talent around him.

I watched them fight three guys at once yesterday.

What's he supposed to do?

I guess, listen, the headline is A, correct, B, leaving out the fact that Bradley K'Chuck, for a lot of his tenure with the Ottawa senators, has been the only guy. Only guy. We talked about this at the beginning of the season. He's going to get fed up with being the guy who tries hardest every single game, and I'm not saying he's not trying now, he's just unlucky. Would it kill the rest of the team to have his back in this moment? You know what I mean? And support him and get a few goals.

Not that these two are any way the same, but that was Matthew's problem in Calgary, right? Oh, K'Chuck. Yeah. Would it kill you to... Oh, well, that was different.

It's like, well, it was similar.

Because then the flames, apparently, internally, were like, well, we're tired of his antics.

With Matthew Kchuck, it wasn't a matter of his offensive prowess. It was he kept trying to drag the team into the fight. And instead of going into the fight with him, the team went, and then he went to Florida, and Florida got way more violent and won. The Flames got the Flames prior to Dustin Wolf. Dustin Wolf has made them fun again. I'm not saying the Sens aren't joining them. I'm just saying sometimes guys go through cold streaks and someone else has to step up. Drake. Jake Batherson is allowed to score. Tim Stutzel is allowed to score. Josh Norris is allowed to score. Who's it going to be?

But I'm wondering if the senators, and they've taken a really hard stance, guys, about we're not going to make any big moves. And I get why? Hey, man, let's see what we got. It would be nice to get him some physical help up front because sometimes it's not, and we saw this with the Leaps, sometimes it's not... I'm not trying to go out and get Kyle Clifford from five years ago to come and play three minutes and punch a guy's face and get suspended in the first game of the playoffs.

Someone to be feisty in your middle six.

It can't just be him, right? And I feel like that's where the sense, if there was any effort time to make a bold move, now is the time. Show these guys you've worked hard. You've surprised a lot of people this year. You deserve it.

I think when the senators talk about not making a big move, I'm not totally sure about this, but I think the context of those quotes is like, well, you need a right shot defenseman. Okay, we're not going to panic. All right, you need a goalie. All right, we're not going to panic. And in both cases, they've held and done fine. Defense has done okay. Levy, Maryland. Because Jacob Dobisch is doing so great in Montreal, it's taken away from, Hey, just down the road, they have a similar situation with this young goalie who's come in and done really well. Long and short of it is, even though Bradley K'Chuck is not scoring, he's still having an impact. The rest of the team has to pick up the slack, and I'm sure he'll be right behind you.

Jess, thoughts?

I think there's... Do Bradley K'Chuck in this situation deserve some criticism because he's on a seven-game pointless streak. Julian McKenzie was writing, That's his longest pointless streak since his rookie season, where he was on an eight-game pointless streak then. With the senators, my thing is that the only thing they miss is offense. That's strictly what they need right now during this little stretch where they're playing really good hockey. They still sit since January first, 30th in goals four per game. It's since January-How are they even in the conversation? They've been a really good team. They're five, four, and two, but they've held that playoff spot. I think they've played a lot of good games. Levy, yesterday, that game against- Maryland. New York. Not good. Got pulled, I believe, after 16 shots, two goals. Not a good start. No, that's good. That little umbrella might have struck midnight, who knows? But he had a great stretch there. What this team needs is their entire offense to pick up. That's got to start with your star. Does it not? I feel like Stéos, to get this team more offense, probably can get them some winger depth They need some help in the middle.

Six, getting David Peron back can be their own rental for the trade deadline. That would definitely help. If you want to look at it like that, that'll help things. And Braed Kutchuk needs to be better offensively because this is the area where this team struggles. They've been winning despite only scoring 1.91 goals per game, which isn't a way to win games. They've been finding a way to win. Now, imagine if they did that plus had goal scoring.

Yeah. A little bit of just interdivisional chirping that I saw this morning. Lane Hudson has more points than braided Kachuk. That's not good. A rookie defenseman, a special rookie defenseman. Oh, crap.

39 points, by the way. 39 points. That's pretty good. Yeah.

That's pretty good.

Now, you can go into the weeds about why braided Kachuk is struggling offensively. Maybe he doesn't have the right players around him and he needs more help in that situation. But I think point blank, he is struggling offensively as of recently as evidence by not scoring any points, and that needs to stop.

Is it time to trade him to the New York Rangers?

I feel like the Rangers... It's funny. They seemed like they were holding everything up. And now they're really holding everything up. It's not just them like, Oh, let me weigh my options.

It's, Oh, wait, are we good? Yo, man, if the devils who are apparently rumored to be on the JT Miller sweepstakes, if they to get him, they all of a sudden go from-The devils? The devils apparently are in there somewhere. According to some rumor watch... Who freaking knows? I mean, listen, if you're a general manager and you haven't called about JT Miller, especially heading to the playoffs, you haven't done your job. Jt Miller with the Devils, for me, is a great fit. Yeah, they still- Because you need more psychotic in that lineup. Yeah.

When I watch them, they're still a little to very early stage Matthews' Leaps.

High flying, super fast.

I'm trying to avoid the word soft, but they're soft. Here, they could be harder.

It's difficult He embodied the city from which they are from. Yeah. Better, harder, tougher.

Yeah. No. Sheldon Keef, who has been begging for that basically his whole NHL career. Hey, JT, good to meet you. What you Heaten. It's a human bone marrow sandwich. God, I love you. I get 100 % C. That being the introduction.

No, he'd be- Here's uncooked liver, too. Me and Jake Chickering.

Oh, God, I love you. I mean, it would make them formidable as hell down the middle. I wonder what the hell is going back the other way because that's one where... Carolina has been mentioned heavily in JT Miller talks, the devil's a better shit to offer. I mean, if you're not giving me... Are you giving me Seth Jarvis?

No.

No.

It feels like a niche situation, doesn't it? He asked for the trade. But now he's found a spot.

Yeah, but that's not what you're looking for if you're the Knux. Yeah, he's really good. He's really good, but that's not what you're looking for. I'm giving you a vampire who's like, 20 pounds. Most of them are skinny and svelte. I'm giving you a big one. No, the Devils, if they wanted to, would be able to come up with a way better package than probably any other team that's been rumored. Interesting. I'm into it.

I'm into it, too. I'm into it, too. Interesting. Okay. Anything else you guys want to hit, or should we do the press conference?

That's my answer. There it is. Presser, S-D-P. The Steve Dangle Press Conference.

This isn't hockey, but what are you guys My thoughts on media people/writers in pro sports being annoying?

It's actually my favorite.

I'm going to need more than that.

And pedantic and difficult and getting in the way of history.

Oh, I think I know what you're going to talk about.

I have no idea where you're going.

So Ichiro Suzuki was voted into the Baseball Hall of Fame. He was one of the greatest hitters we've ever seen play the game ever. He has more professional hits than anybody. If you combine his numbers in Japan and America, he would have the most hits all time. If you're a baseball fan, you know Ichiro. Getting into the Hall of Fame yesterday, he received every single vote except one. One writer decided to not include Ichiro on his ballot, and he failed to become, I believe, only the second or third player to ever be unanimously voted into the Hall of Fame. The writer who left him off his ballot hasn't been revealed yet. We don't know who it is because you have to agree to publicly disclose your ballot. There's a checkbox on your ballot that you can submit that says, yes, you can reveal it. We might not know who that is right now, but maybe it'll come out eventually. What do you guys think about this situation?

It's complete trash, complete garbage. Ichiro Suzuki, you suck. Other players have been inducted unanimously.

Yeah, I believe it's either two. I'm going to I can see who it is. I think it's two or one. Which means- I know Mariano Rivera is one. He got 425, 425, but I don't know who... I think it might be only Rivera. Yeah, okay. How is he the only one? Mlb. Com, because this just happened, they have the highest voting percentages in Hall of Fame history. Mariano Rivera is 425, 425, 100% total vote, 2019. Ichiro is now tied second. Also, yeah, great point. How is Rivera the only one? You know how many great players we've ever played? Why would you ever disagree that they're not a Hall of Famer? So Ichiro and Derek Jeter, who also fell one vote short. What are we doing? What are we doing? We got a lot of petty writers.

Was that 3400 hits that Derek Jeter had? Each row probably had more.

Ken Griffy Jr. Was three vote shy. Out of here. 437.griffy Jr.

Three people said, No. No. I'm leaving him off my ballot because I don't like him. Three people said that about Ken Griffy Jr. Tom Siever had five vote Nolen Ryan. Oh my God.

It's true off. Nolen Ryan?

Nolen wasn't unanimous in the Hall of Fame.

Nolen Ryan, it says there, 27-year career. Nolen Ryan had seven no hitters.

What? That's the most by any pitcher ever. Yes.

He probably has more no hitters than most teams.

He has more strikeouts than anybody in the history of baseball.

And Mariano Rivera. I don't want to disrespect the guy, but it's like, Oh, there's only one player who's ever gotten into the Hockey Hall of Fame unanimously. Who is it? Oh, it's Peter Bondra. Yeah. What? Are you saying Peter Bondra? No, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying I I'm not going to throw him that name out there.

Ty Cobb fell short. George Brett had a high percentage. Hank Aaron.

What?

The all-time home run leader. Nine people? The man who had more home runs than anybody in the history of baseball at the time of his retirement did not get into the Base Hall of Fame unanimously.

And had it for another 25 years after.

Sorry, he is a 25-time All-Star? 25-time All-Star.

I don't know.

He has a four-year century of All-Star?

No, I'm not putting him in. I don't know.

Nine people said no to Hank Aaron.

To me, it gets a lot worse when you look at the class. When you look at who else was eligible to vote for, I don't know if you have that.

His paper? Yeah, I can pull one up. If you want to pull that off, I'll find one.

Because I was looking at that. One of the guys who got Hall of Fame votes, very few, but was eligible was Troy Tulewitzky. And again-Very good player. Very good player. Very good player. Pardon? It's a road Suzuki. I don't understand.

And it's one guy. It's funny. We talk about hockey, and we've learned a lot since we started this show, and Whatever. I grew up watching baseball. I can remember really bad Jay's years where I watched as many games as I could. Baseball, to me, the older I get, becomes more and more like a different universe. The stats are one thing. It's a real numbersport. But the way it is covered sometimes and the The way that things are done in the Hall of Fame ballots and the fact that you can get kicked off of a Hall of Fame ballot forever if you don't get in after a certain amount of time. There's some insane shit that happens in baseball where I'm like, you don't have to do it that way. It doesn't need to be this difficult. This is another prime example of baseball being really fucking weird. It's weird. It's a weird sport. It's a weird sport. The coverage is weird. And if you talk to people and you say, that's weird. They're like, what the fuck is wrong with you? What do you mean it's weird?

You ever go to a hockey game and there's a father-son sitting next to each other, marking down the shots next to each other. Or go to a basketball game and it's three percentages low tonight. And they're manually... Why are you doing that?

Why do you do it in baseball? Look it up.

Why did you pay to be here and then do that? It's weird, man. It's weird.

So this is an official ballot. If you want to take a look at what they look like. Good names on there. This is from A writer tweeted out their ballot. This is the official Baseball Writers Association of America 2025 Hall of Fame ballot. Bobby Abreu, Carlos Beltran, Mark Burley, Carlos Gonzales, Curtis Granderson, Felix Hernandez, Tori Hunter, Adam Jones, Andrew Jones, Alex Rodriguez.

Which Alex Rodriguez? Is that the Alex Rodriguez? Yes. Like, Horse above my bed, painting of myself, Alex Rodriguez?

Yes. I own the Miami Marlins at one point.

I'm surprised he's not... He, by the way, should It would absolutely be a Hall of Famer. I know why everybody hates him. The same with Barry Bonds.

Put Barry Bonds in the Hall of Fame.

Put an asterisk next to it, but put him in there as a museum.

You get five votes?

Ten.

You get 10 votes?

Yeah. You can vote for up to 10 players.

You can vote for up to...

You are not required to vote for 10, but you can use 10 checks.

So you're not required?

You can use two if you really...

If you didn't give one of checks to Ichiro Suzuki.

Somebody had 10 checks.

You thought Ben Zobrist.

What?

Well, this- No, they could have just abstained.

This isn't the ballot. This isn't the ballot. This is just a ballot.

This one, this voter voted for Ichiro. You can see it. No, I know that.

Here's the thing.

I'm just hypothetically- It's not exactly...

I could have put that... I have a base level knowledge of Microsoft Word. I could have done that document myself. I'm wondering if it was a mistake. Did somebody just look at it and they got called away because they had to go to a meeting and they came back and go- That's a way better theory. I feel like it has to be, right? Because it's not... Look, the names are there. There's no reasons why. I feel like with a document like this, it's like, Here's the case for Andy Pettit. Here's the case for Dustin Pedroia. Here's the case for Alex Rodriguez. I understand why that would be extra work and stuff, but it It feels like the Hall of Fame is a big deal, and perhaps everybody should get a refresher course on why these players were good. Some of these baseball writers are going to be older and they forget some of these guys. Some of them are going to be younger, and they were in high school when these guys were great. Maybe it was just like, Shit, I forgot to click it.

Wait, so you think they forgot to put a check on each row?

Isn't that... Well, because it's just like, Click, click, click. It's not click.

It's with a pen and paper.

It's with a pen and paper, too. Is it possible that they just fucked up? Is that even possible?

I like Adam's theory. I like Adam's theory, and here's why. Because the moment I saw one guy... You know how bad your Hall of Fame ballot has to be for me to automatically be like, There's a greater than zero % chance you're racist. Dude, how? It's Indro Suzuki, for God's sake.

I think it's a mistake. I think somebody screwed up. I think When this comes out, he's going to be like...

If you are making a mistake on your Hall of Fame ballot, you don't deserve a Hall of Fame ballot because this is history, right? If you are so flippant about handing in your ballot, your test, your survey, whatever you want to do, then you don't deserve it. Then you shouldn't be tasked with this. This is a serious job.

Let's power rank likelihood. Fucked up his ballot Okay, that's one. Number two is is racist.

Number three-I don't know what you jump to. I think it's like somebody who's salty because each row hit a homer against the team that they cover that they love. Okay, Sorry, though. All journalists don't have any... They certainly don't fall in love with the teams they follow. All of them are non-biased.

I was going to do three. Let's do four. Fucked up their ballot, is racist, is salty, legitimately thought Itchero Suzuki wasn't one of the best baseball players on the ballot.

Number three is the most likely. I think the mistake one is me throwing a wild card in there. Number three is the most likely That team that year, they had it, and Suzuki screwed it up, although Seattle didn't make the playoffs very much. Maybe it was when he was with New York. I don't know. But it feels like this is a sulting thing, which is what I think most people are assuming.

I think This is, I tried to interview Ichiro, and I could never get to talk to him, that situation. It sounds personal.

I don't like all the reporters that follow him around.

Yeah.

For you to do this, it sounds personal.

I'm sorry. If there's 395 people and 394 of them disagree with you, you owe us all an explanation.

Yes, I think that is very true. If you're being a giant baby about this, and then you're also hiding behind it, you shouldn't vote on this. You suck.

I don't love that if the person were to come out and be like, Yeah, here's why. They'd probably get death threats, let's be totally honest. Because people are nuts. So I don't love that. But when the NHL started releasing ballots, not the NHL, the writers, started releasing in your palate. Some didn't want to do it. I'm like, that flies completely in the face of your profession. Make your choice based on your expertise. You're here because you know a thing or two about hockey and the sport that you cover. Make choices based on your expertise and stand on them. Then guess what you get to do in the 2000s? It's such a great thing for you. You get to create content. You get to write or make a video or whatever it is that is going to create money for either you or your employer or both. No, I want to do this anonymously because what?

But also Don't just do it for the content, please. Just don't do it for the content.

No, don't do it for the content.

Because I think we had that similar situation in the NHL two years ago. After his 153 point regular season, McDavid received first-place votes in 195 of the 196 ballots cast. Not having him first was shocking enough, but it resulted in even more public outrage when it was confirmed that the one writer who didn't give him a first-place vote instead had him at fifth. The PHWA has since revealed that writer, Seth Roherbaugh- I think Roherbaugh.

Who's from Pittsburgh, right?

Of Tribune Review Sports was the writer who left him, put him at fifth. This isn't the first time the Pittsburgh Penguins columnist has taken heat for his voting at the NHL Awards, as he also had McDavid and Austin Matthews outside of his top five in Heart Trophy voting a year ago.

So, Jesse, what does that tell you? I'm not saying do it for the content. I'm saying give your legitimate opinion, and also you get to make content. Which is what we do. But the fact that you're like, Seth Roher. It didn't help, did it? No.

That's not a name that rolls off my tongue now because you did this.

It might be if you live in Pittsburgh.

Sure. If you read the Tribune Review Sports.

Which is a long time, big time paper.

I'm sorry, that's a default. Default. That's a default. If you're a huge Lee fan and you don't know who I am, I fucked up.

Oh, okay. I see what you're saying.

If you work for one of the... How many people get the privilege of covering the Pittsburgh Theangleids fans do know who this is.

I think it's the rest of us who probably don't as well.

That's what I'm saying.

And I've quoted from Seth's work before.

Of course.

Yeah. He's wrong. That's stupid. He's gloriously wrong. And I would say, Hey, Seth, you're wrong.

Cool. He's catastrophically wrong.

Right. But Yes. But you know what I think? First off, the Itchero thing, that aside, Seth missed a great opportunity if he didn't immediately write, Here's why I voted for Connor McDavid in fourth. That should have been the callFifth. He did.

But it's so wrong I didn't even bother. I'm not interested in your explanation for why a player with 153 fucking points is the fifth best player in hockey.

Do we know how he voted, Jesse? Do we know who he voted for?

It was just there. Did I read it?

Well, you said he voted.

I didn't say it?

Yeah. Who was his number one, and two, and three, for that matter?

Oh, no. Yeah. Actually, it was the next sentence. That's why I thought I read it. He had Pasternak, Jason Robertson, Elia Sorokin, Matthew Kchuck, and then McDavid. That's his five. What?

Shit. Okay. Listen, we all need a take. We do. We need a point of view. We need... That has not aged well. And no disrespect, Past is great.

Connor McDavid has a shit on his hot dog. That's crazy.

If you remember- That had a great year. I'm not trying to take that away from it.

That was the season that McDavid had 153 points. It was the most points in a season since Mario put up 161 in '95, '96. What season was it? The '23 season. '22, '23.22, 23. Yeah, 153 points.

Jason Robertson.

Quick question. He had 25 point lead over Dreisaitl.

Robertson had 46 goals and 109 points.

Mcdavid had- That's Robertson's best year. Sorokin, though, he had a great year, and the Islanders went, what, to the conference final that year? Or was that second round? Well, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, though, because they have to do it by game 82.

Wait, he got that when he voted. He must have won the Vesna, right?

No.

Of course not. No. What fun house your ass ballot. Seth, what the fuck, man?

See, now, here's how you make good content of that. You put him with another Pittsburgh writer who voted right and say, Seth. Seth. That debate would be fun. Who's the guy I did watch that.

Who was the guy who cut a promo on the Capitals in the playoff? Rob Rossi. Rob Rossi. You listen to me, Seth. Just start cutting a Macho Man, Randy Savage promo on him.

Yeah.

Sixty-four goals that season. 153 points. Pasta, who was ahead of him in the Heart Trophy voting, had 113 points.

So he had Conor McDavid- You put two wingers ahead of- Conor McDavid had over 50 % of his points. So 50 % of Pasternac's points. Connor McDavid still has more goals than that. You see what I'm saying? I know that's a bonkers way to look at it. What is that? What are we talking about?

Also, I want to go back and look at Matthew Kchuck's numbers because I can't imagine they're anywhere near McDavid.

Now I'm trying to remember what team he was even on.

I think that was still Calgary, wasn't it?

Because Kchuck's best-No, 22, 23 would be Florida.

Oh, is that what this is? No.

Oh, yes. Sorry. It was his first year with the Panthers. Well, he had 40 goals, 69 assists for 109 points.

So that's akin to what Jason Robertson had. Didn't he have a 109?

Yeah, he did. Oh, wait. So it's three... You had three wingers.

And a goalie. Man, I didn't even think about that.

And a goalie.

Oh, man. You had three wingers and a goalie.

Do you want to pull up Seth's reasoning? Because I'm sure he-No.

No. Maddie wants it. All right.

The first thing when you type in his name is Seth Roherbra McDavid. Well, maybe it did work then.

That's enough, though.

Yeah.

The fact that he's done this more than once, that's enough. Come on, man. Jesus.

What are we doing? Mcdavid also had a unanimous heart trophy win in '21. '21 it?

This is what happens, though. Writers are like, Well, I'm not doing it Again. Yeah.

He had the opportunity to get too unanimous, and I believe it would be him and Gretsky are the only people to ever do that. When he did it in '21, he became the first person to ever be unanimous since Gretsky in '85. Three wingers and a goalie. Seth ruined history. Yeah.

This is part of the reason why... One of the things I had to dig through for the book when writing about all-timers is, are we going to have any idea that happened in 40 years when we're looking back and we're going to be like, oh, yeah, one writer shafted. You have to explain to people the Aginla Theodore stuff. That was a weird one, too.

People misremember that all the time. I love bringing this up because a lot of people go, Aginla didn't get all the votes and everything. Theodore was also left off ballots. It happened to both of them.

And neither should have been left off of any ballot.

But that context is being lost to history. We get further away from it and people yell about the Aginla thing, but Theodore was also screwed in that situation. And that, as time goes on, we're probably just going to forget that this happened.

I think part of that, too, is that Theodore's career after that was not as good as The Guinness. Theodore was unfucking real that season. He was unbelievable.

And also you can't just look at, Oh, this player won this award this year, that meant they were the best one. The reason I always bring up the 1996 Vesna that Jim, the Net Detective, Kerry got, fucking no.

Absolutely not. I think sometimes people just want to be hipsters about it.

He wasn't a top five goalie in the end.

I just want to be different.

He shouldn't have been nominated.

I think sometimes it's like, No, I'm smarter than everybody else. Listen, let me ask you this. Forget the hard vote. Who'd you on your team? Connor or any of those guys?

Well, it's not about that, but- Isn't it?

Most valuable to their team.

It's a little about that. It's most valuable to their team. I don't hate that language at all.

I'd trade all five of those guys for Connor.

I'll rent a sprinter van. I'm in. Are you kidding?

Four of them. Four of them, right?

Yeah, four. Who cares? Because Connor was- It doesn't matter. Jesse, literally add another player, and I'll trade them, too.

So you would do pasta, Robertson, for Chuck Sorokin for McDavid.

Think of all the caps face.

You'd never have a problem signing a free agent.

You know what? Yeah, you get McDavid, but I think the best part of that trade is the caps face. It's true.

It's true. Those other guys make money.

Hey, who the hell is playing center on that team, Jessie?

There isn't one.

You got too many waders. Oh, my God. I think it speaks to...

Freaking Pontus Humberg centering K'Chuck Steve Robertson.

Steve, it speaks to what you're talking about, because when I look this up and I'm trying to find a rebuttal from Seth, I can't get it. It's not easily googlable that I can get his response article or even his tweets. I've got to go searching, searching because everything that comes up are just articles about him fucking this up. The first click isn't, Here's what I did, the Tribune. That should be the headline. First thing I type in, McDavid, Seth, blah, blah, blah. It should be, Here's why I put McDavid in fifth. That should be the banner. That should be the most click thing, but it's not. You should submit your ballot, write that article at the speed of light and publish it the moment the votes are public. It comes out. You didn't even get clicks out of this.

Oh, you would just kill that day. That would be your best day of the year. It'd be a lot of hate.

It'd be the most red writer in the sport.

Yep, absolutely. I mean, listen, if If you're doing it not to be the most red writer in the sport, then you're doing it for the wrong reasons. At least if you're going to troll, troll properly. Oh, my God. Man, that's crazy, Jesse. I forgot about that completely.

We probably had this exact same conversation in 2023. Repeat for those listeners, but it deserves it. There's also HF Boards. They did a good summary of the time Seth was a contrarian. We can end on this if you're ready. It just runs through the headlines. Yeah. 2018, he was the only voter to give William Carlson a first-place vote. 2019, he was one of two voters to give Johnny Goudreau a first-place vote. 2020, he was the only voter out of 170 to vote John Carlson in the top three. 2021, he was the only voter to vote for Jonathan Huberdo and one of two voters to vote for Patrick Cain. 2022, he was one of two voters to give Gabriel Kaprizov a first-place vote. He was the only person to give JT Miller a vote. 2018, didn't include McDavid. 2019, didn't include McDavid. 2020, didn't include McDavid. 2022, didn't include McDavid. 2023, put David in fifth.

You didn't include him.

You didn't include him. Okay, fine. You didn't give him a first place. You didn't include him? Every year, that player should be top five MVP. End of story. Are you Are you kidding me? Especially by its definition, which is most valuable to their team.

I say this as a elite fan who has been personally wronged by the Boston Bruins many times. There's no player in the league I hate that much. If given the opportunity... I can sit here and say with zero reservation whatsoever, Brad Marchambalog is in the Hall of Fame when it's all said and done. Absolutely.

So what the fuck? And I'll be rooting for him. What's going on? Like I was when he was at the Olympics.

Yeah. We He scored the tournament-winning goal, and all of Toronto went, Yeah, why I got a yeah?

Although really, not really, because we hadn't lost a bunch of playoff series to them at that point. That was 2016.

Yeah, it was It was just the one. It was only one.

Simpler times. Simpler times.

It's been a few more. Yeah. Don't be this. Please don't be this if you're out there and one day you become a professional writer and you have the ability to vote on awards. Don't be the guy who left each row off. Don't be Seth who's leaving McDavid off for no reason. Don't do this.

I think number one is guy who left each row off, salty. Number two, for me, is made a mistake. Number three Three, I think, is legitimately... No, I think I still go racist. No, number three is racist. Number four is legitimately thought each row wasn't one of the best players in baseball.

I don't think anybody thought that. Yeah, it's got to be last.

Racist is definitely higher than that. That's crazy. Holy shit.

Yeah, dude, I think that's just salty.

Damn. Salty number one.

Okay, well, listen, it's hard to get 100 people, 20 people to agree on any one thing.

You can agree on each row.

The fact that each row got that many, when you put it in that perspective, maybe that's a win.

No, Hank Aaron. Hank Aaron, man.

25 All-Star Are you kidding me? 25?

No, and Ryan. Yeah.

Who was like... No, and Ryan's last perfect game, and he had nine of them, was against the Blue Jays, and he struck out Robbie Alomar. To finish the game.

It's the only unanimous person inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame, Ed Belfort. What the fuck?

Mariano's.

Yeah, all right.

Yeah, all right. Yeah, what about Hank Aaron?

About each hero. Yeah, you're right. Okay. That's a good point.

I didn't say he's bad, but what the fuck?

Thank you.

That was fun. That was really great. That was a fun thing. Thank you, Jesse. Thing. That was definitely great.

That was Steve P.

The Steve Dangle podcast. Follow the guys on Twitter at steve_dangle@adamwylde and at Jessie Blake. Connection complete.