Transcript of The Cool Teacher | Episode 1

Before we get started, a quick heads-up: this show contains mature content about educator sexual misconduct.

I remember roll call, specifically. When he called my name out, he referenced my sister and knowing my sister, and right away it was like this, like, "Oh, hey, we're going to be buds." Planting that seed right from the get-go of, "You're different than everybody else in this classroom."

You're hearing from Stacey Love. She's talking about her first day in sophomore year English class at Centennial High School. That same year she was learning to drive in empty parking lots, goofing around at Taco Bell with her best friend, and cheering on the football team in her faded jeans and a white T-shirt. It's 1995. It's AnyTown, USA. It's high school.

I met my ex-husband, weird to say, as a teacher of mine. You know, my school was very much a culture of, like, it was almost a compliment to be picked by one of the teachers. There were many teachers that were flirting with students, having inappropriate relationships with students, and so it almost was, like, a little bit exciting because it kind of validated some self-worth that I think we all struggle with at that time and that age when you're still trying to figure out who you are and how you are going to be in the world.

So now Stacey's in her 40s, and she's been wrestling with what happened to her over the last two decades, pouring over research and rehashing the past, trying to understand her role in it all. How does she tell her kids about something she can't even make sense of herself? As she traces her own path backward, she's left wondering: was this the life she chose, or the life that happened to her? Stacey's dreams for high school didn't include marrying her English teacher, and it took her years to see that what she thought was a love story was actually something much darker.

I kept quiet for years because I didn't want to hurt anyone. Not my parents. Not my kids. Not him. Not my school. Because I thought silence was the loving thing to do. Because I was scared of being dramatic or bitter or sensitive or just another woman with a very sad story. But silence didn't protect me, and it doesn't protect anyone else either.

I'm Sydney Gladow. And this is Not Just A Terrible Story.

Hi, Stacey.

Hi. How's it going?

Good. How are you?

Good.

I've been reporting on this story for a year and a half.

So nice to meet you.

The first time I met Stacey in person, she showed me her senior photo. She's leaning into her right arm, smiling. It's soft and nostalgic. You can definitely tell it was taken in the late '90s.

There's me. In my polo.

So cute.

She's wearing a blue vest over a white T-shirt. She has a baby face and a deep sidebar in her light brown shoulder-length hair. Stacey and I are both from Oregon, and she's like everybody else I know from home. She grows tomatoes and flowers in her garden during the summer.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah. Are they pretty?

So stunning.

It might be my favorite also.

They're so pretty.

She loves to camp and be outside.

I really like outdoorsy stuff. That's kind of always been who I am. Like, riding my bike and mountain biking.

She collects these rocks that have an unbroken line of quartz that run through them.

Especially if it goes all the way around the rock, it's, like, extra good luck.

They're called wishing rocks.

I'm a Taurus, which I don't really care about signs except for, like, I am truly, like, so earthy and, you know, literally collect rocks. And I made a rock garden this, um, I'll show you guys a picture.

She's a mom and an interior designer.

And I didn't know interior design was a thing. I only knew about interior decorating. But my friend had gone to the art institute, and I remember her complaining about having to design a toaster. And I remember thinking, "That sounds really cool."

That's actually how I met her. My first job out of college was at a textile library for the same company she worked for. But it wasn't until six years later that I would hear her story for the first time.

When did you guys get in?

This morning.

Oh.

Yeah.

It's a long morning.

It started when my co-producer, Katie Klein, and I drove down to Portland very early one morning in September 2024.

Thank you, too. If we don't mind, I'm literally wearing pajamas.

Stacey arrived at the door of our Airbnb wearing a soft white pajama set and glittery eyeshadow, holding a tote bag and a rose from her garden.

Do you have any water, coffee?

I have water.

Okay.

Um, coffee would be great.

Yeah. Yeah.

We're here to help Stacey answer a question. And on its face, it seems simple. But it's the type of question that, when you look at it closely, when you hold it to the light, it changes. Because it's not a question Stacey can answer on her own. At first, we thought we were asking, "How did she end up marrying her teacher?" But what we realized is we're really asking, "How did her life unfold this way?"

So it was, um, in the '90s when I picture it, I picture, like, I had this nautica jacket that I really loved and, like, polo and, you know, just kind of, like, that preppy, vanilla, white people stuff.

And the school was.

The story starts in 1995, when Stacey was a sophomore in high school. She spent many afternoons skipping seminary class at the Mormon Church. She was always with her best friend, eating 99 Cent tacos and filming silly home movies with the family camcorder. She was extremely social, but not a partyer.

I was such a goofball. I was the class clown.

She was and is sensitive and thoughtful, the kind of girl who spent time watercoloring birthday cards for her friends. And then one day, at the start of sophomore year, she was walking down the hallway.

My best friend and I were walking to one of our classes, and he was pushing a cart. And I just remember him, right from the get-go, being flirtatious with, you know, making eyes. I just remember that interaction being different than with any other teacher in the school. He was a teacher that just stood out. He was younger. He was very engaging. He wasn't just a teacher who's walking down the hallway grumpy. He was, like, whistling or making comments at people or, you know, he was the cool guy.

That teacher was Brett Fischer. 15-year-old Stacey remembers that Mr. Fischer preferred to be called Fish. He was a young teacher, only 24. He'd graduated from Centennial High School five years before. It wasn't until Stacey's sophomore year that she was assigned to his English class.

It was the old school, in rows, in your desk with your individual seat facing the front. I was somewhere towards the middle and front. And when he called a role, it was almost like he was doing a performance. So each name got, like, a little joke or a rhyme or something. And when he got to my name, he was, like, "Clough? C-L-O-U-G-H? Like Raquel Clough?" And that's my older sister. And it was instantly like I was the only person in the room.

She felt like Mr. Fischer's class was the epicenter of cool. It was 1995, and he was into alternative music and artistic films. Not the romantic comedies or the made-for-TV stuff she usually watched at home with her family.

If you would bring in a burned CD, you would get extra credit points.

This was all before cell phones. It was the time of passing notes, landlines, and listening to the radio. Without any internet to drift off into, his class became her escape from the suburbs.

He taught English, which is so cliché because I feel like every story I hear about this is, like, either a drama teacher or an English teacher. One of his big assignments was for all of us to take a piece of music and break that piece of music down, like, what it meant, what are the lyrics, what are they trying to say. Everyone would play their song, and then they would tell the classroom what their breakdown of the song is.

Stacey was a good kid and a good student, but not a great student. English was different, though. She tried hard to bring the right CDs and pick the cool songs.

I loved The Cranberries. Loved. Listened to The Cranberries nonstop. And I picked a song that starts out with "Oregon," so it's, like, really moody and then goes into the lyrics. And I remember him not liking the song, and I got a bad grade on the assignment because it was, like, he didn't like the song. If you played a cool song, that's a song he likes, and you do a good job breaking it down, you're going to get a good grade. But if you do something where it's, like, not cool, not what I would do, you know, then you don't.

She remembers trying to stay in his good graces. It felt like the classroom had this unspoken competition.

He definitely was one of those teachers who had favorites in the classroom. I was definitely a favorite of his. And then later, his favorite students, he would usually ask to become his teacher's assistant.

By the end of sophomore year, Stacey was set to be Brett's teacher's assistant.

Which I felt, again, very excited to be chosen to be his TA because he is someone that I did like to spend time with, and I thought he was really interesting and, um, funny. And a lot of the cool girls were his TAs. They were all really pretty, usually popular. When you were his teacher's assistant, you would sit at his desk in his chair. You would insert grades into their computer gradebook type thing. You might grade assignments. I would go get copies for him, staple things together.

That classroom is still burned in her brain. The walls lined with movie posters. And then there was the podium he lectured from, covered from corner to corner, top to bottom.

With photos of students. And it was almost like giving him your photo was some weird thing that girls were doing. And if you got picked, you kind of got put on the podium. I could be wrong, but I would think that if you talked to almost every girl, and maybe guy, too, I think we were all giving him our photos, especially his senior photos, because you'd get the special photos taken. And I remember being proud of those photos because it was, like, the first time you're getting more professional photos.

By junior year, he noticed things. His eyes lingered. Something fluttered in her stomach, different from butterflies.

I used to always wear this little gray top with, like, one of those little tiny pockets on the left side, like, by your breast. And I remember him complimenting that shirt a lot and later in life saying, "I loved it when you walked up to my desk and you were wearing that gray shirt with a little pocket."

Stacey didn't tell anyone about these moments. They lingered in that gray area between his podium and her desk. She got excited when Brett called on her in class and when Brett asked her to bring him ice cream from her after-school job.

And at that point, Brett and I had established a friendship. I definitely got extra attention, which I didn't mind.

But then it felt like it started to cross a line.

The amount of attention that he was giving me, and I was giving it back, you know, we were flirting in class. We were flirting in front of other students.

This flirtatious dynamic in his classroom became normal for junior year. Then, just before Stacey started senior year, in late summer of 1997, Fish asked a favor.

He had asked me to help decorate his room, organize and get ready for the school year, put up fresh posters, you know, clean the classroom, organize the desk. And I remember bringing my friend Rochelle along with me because I felt, like, a little uncomfortable. I didn't really want to be in the room, like, doing all of this work with him alone. And I was wearing just some, like, tight corduroy pants. I think they were brown or something. We were more towards the front of his classroom.

In hindsight, Stacey sees her experience with Mr. Fischer in high school as grooming. Experts we spoke to told us that grooming plays out in eerily similar ways in every story. Isolate flatter secrecy gifts, special errands, test the boundaries, push further each time. And by the time you notice, reality is so distorted that it makes the unthinkable seem normal. It can take many forms: inappropriate comments, digital harassment, sexual assault. Stacey's story centered on ethical violations of the Oregon Teachers Code of Conduct.

There was something in me that was, like, I don't know, being alone in a room with a teacher that's extra friendly with girls, just something didn't feel quite right. But it didn't feel like I was stepping into something super dangerous either. And I also, like I said, I really did think of Brett as a friend. I liked him. I liked his personality. I liked, you know, the artistic movies that he would put up. They were interesting. We were playing music. I felt special that he had asked me to come help do it.

It sounds confusing because it was confusing. She liked the positive attention, but it also gave her a bad feeling. Stacey's 45 now and very aware of how this story might sound.

Like, I wish I had more, like, jaw-dropping things to share, but I think that's also part of the story. I wish I had worse things to tell you. You know, that would make me feel better. The fact that it's a lot of subtleties, I'm like, "Oh, my God, I hope people just don't think, like, she should have just known better and she has a crappy family."

If it hadn't been for what happened next, she may have never realized her experience in high school wasn't OK, that these seemingly little boundaries he was crossing appeared to be part of a bigger pattern.

High school years are so formative. And then 18 is, like, when you're moving out and you're deciding what your degree is going to be and you're potentially starting what your career is going to be, and, um, you're starting to make really big steps. You know, you feel like you're, you know, what's right and wrong and you're, you know, you're an adult now. But the reality is you don't, you know? And especially if you're coming from a culture like I came from and you've been slowly kind of pulled into, like, this side of the water, it's like you can't even see clearly what's actually happening.

In May of 1998, one month before graduation, Stacey turned 18. And as she was leaving high school, the world had never been more wide open.

I probably could have left graduated high school, gone on with my life, and never seen him again. And I would not be having this story. I would not be having this discussion.

But here we are, having this discussion, because a year after graduation, she moved back into her parents' house. The plan was to save up for an apartment while commuting to school in the city. She was a legal adult now, a year out of high school and making her own decisions. One Friday night in the fall, she found herself back at Centennial High School.

My brother had gotten really into football, and my parents actually were, like, super into him being into football. It was kind of, like, a big deal for my family to go watch my brother play. So I went by myself, but I was going to meet my parents and I'm sure run into friends, and it's kind of a social scene. I remember walking in, there's, like, a path to the left after you buy your tickets, and you'd go walking into the side of the field. And I remember running into Brett on that pathway.

This is the moment when 19-year-old Stacey ran into then-28-year-old Brett Fischer outside of the football game.

And he was like, "Oh, hey, how's it going?" And we just kind of caught up for, you know, a little bit about how college was going, about what I was doing.

Now, Stacey sees this as a turning point in her life, one that she says set her course. In another version of the story, maybe she would have missed Brett completely. But in this version, the one that became reality, a chance encounter changed the whole trajectory of her life.

Going to his house was probably the single worst mistake I've ever made in my life.

It had been a few months since Stacey bumped into her former teacher, Brett Fischer, at the high school football game. And in those months, not much had changed. She was still in college, still living at home, until one day when Stacey and her younger brother were in the car driving to pick up balloons for her mom's birthday.

I had, like, a Honda Civic at the time. He was in the passenger seat, and he was like, "Oh, hey, by the way, Fish called." I'm like, "What?" I remember, like, slamming on the brakes. Like, "What? What are you talking about? Why would he call me?" And he was like, "Because he wants to take you on a date." I was like, "No, I'm not going on a date with him." And my brother was like, "You should just go on a date with him. He's the cool teacher. It's fine."

This was Stacey's younger brother, who was a junior at Centennial High School.

And so that was just a moment where I thought, "Well, maybe I'm making a big deal about this. Maybe I should just have a phone conversation with him." So it started with a phone conversation. I remember specifically him saying, "I really want you to come to my house." He had bought a new house, and he hadn't had any students over yet. And I would be the first one to go to this new house.

It was actually an old house, built around 1920.

The basement had, like, old newspapers. He really wanted to take me down there and show me these old newspapers where you could see, like, the dates and the different words. And we had a great time. I thought, "Wow, this really cool, cultured guy is kind of showing me the ropes in life, you know? And he's got this cool house that he wants me to come to, and he wants to take me to dinner, and he wants to teach me about wine, and he wants to play music together.

And without thinking about it, 19-year-old Stacey went from spending all her time in the city and going to college to spending all her time with Brett at his house.

He was really into wine, which now I'm really into wine. He's teaching me, you know, so it feels really exciting because you're being taught all these things. It's not like I'm at a party drinking Coors Light with my buddy friends, you know? It's like, he's got a nice house, and we're watching really cool movies and making great food and, you know, trying to get me into restaurants that maybe I could order wine and not get caught. But a lot of it was happening at his house.

That spring, she turned 20 and got a job at the local bank because of the good pay and flexible hours.

I was a teller there. The way that the bank was is like any bank you've been to, the tellers face out, right? And I was just going about my day, and I look up and I see Brett in the line. And it was just kind of that sinking feeling of, like, that's someone who's not supposed to be here. This is a branch where people are coming in, they're, you know, cashing their checks or they're depositing their money, and it's a constant flow of people. And so he made sure he came up to my window, and he had taken the deposit slip, like you fill out with your account number and stuff like that.

Edgefield is a boutique hotel outside of Portland. Think beautiful gardens and nice restaurants.

But I did take the slip, and I was excited to go there because I hadn't been to a place like that, and it sounded really cool and exciting and different.

Was there any pressure around that trip?

It was kind of a big thing. I mean, it was something he was very adamant about. He really wanted to take me there. And I remember downstairs, they have, like, a little wine bar. It's, like, super dark, candlelit, kind of romantic. And I remember later saying, like, "That's where I fell in love with Brett Fischer." Knowing me now, I love candlelit rooms, and I love wine, and I love the setting and spending quality time with people. So there's a big recipe there that would have worked no matter what.

After this weekend, they got serious. She started bringing Brett around her family and introduced him as her boyfriend. He was at every barbecue and family event, and she never missed a Monday taco night at his parents' house.

I literally worked, and I went to college, and I hung out with him. I was really into it. He wanted to be around me all the time. He was obsessed with me. He was showing me all these really cool parts of the world, and I just fell for it, like, hook, line, and sinker. I fell for it. And I overlooked so many things and so many red flags and behaviors because of that. There is a part of me that, and I've really struggled with this in life of, like, how hard I fell for it.

That story she tells about falling in love with Brett Fischer feels far away, like something she shoved in the same dusty boxes she put her old yearbooks in. In reality, the drive back to Gresham is only 20 minutes from her house in Portland. You don't even have to get on the highway. But these are two very different worlds. Gresham is a midsize suburb, but when Stacey was growing up, it had the feeling of a small town. Portland was her big city, the one she knew she'd always moved to. In the blocks between these two worlds is where her life unfolded.

How is it back there?

All right.

Stacey filled us in on the small-town lore.

One of my classmates that lived over there became Miss America in the early 2000s. That back road is, like, where all the baseball games and stuff like that would be. But that's a middle school there. And that's an elementary school I went to. This is my house here to the left. Not that much has changed, really. Up on a hill, there was, like, all the bigger houses and the families that had more money.

We've also heard it called Snob Hill from other students we've talked to.

And then down lower by the school was more working-class families. I think most of it was built out in the '80s and '90s. And it's really beautiful. There's, you know, these hills all around.

I know Stacey still thinks this place is beautiful, even after everything she's been through here. But I mostly see dead grass and strip malls.

And it was really interesting when our high school reunion came up. You know, it was like, there is no way in hell I'm going to the high school reunion, even before that stuff happened.

Gresham is a town where people stay. They stay close. They stay in touch. They even have a saying at the high school: "Once an eagle, always an eagle." But Stacey's been avoiding Centennial High School for almost 20 years.

I had definitely been there after I graduated. I don't think I've been there since he lost his teaching license, I want to say. We graduated in '98, and then that thing happened in 2004 or '05. But I just remember a feeling of being mortified of, like, "Oh, my God, that would be the most embarrassing thing to go and be like, 'Oh, hey, remember, I'm the one that married the teacher?'" And then he turned out to be a total creep.

We'll get to the teaching license and how Brett Fischer lost it. What I can tell you is we've reached out to Brett Fischer for an interview several times throughout our reporting. As of the time I'm recording this, he has not responded to any of our emails or phone calls. So for now, we're on this tour of Gresham with Stacey. We drove through the neighborhoods. All the blocks started to blend together, endless streets lined with nondescript beige houses. And then there it was, Centennial High School, a low-slung brick building on a sprawling campus.

Something I never thought about much.

We walked up to the side of the football stadium. Everything's painted red, white, and blue.

Is there a specific thing that's coming up? I guess, to put it into words, it's, you know, you spend four years here with all your peers, and you're growing up, and you're changing, and you're developing, like, who you are. And I think it's because of all the fallout of everything that happened. It's just something that I have put in a category that I don't think about. So I think just being here kind of opens that up. Not that there's bad memories. It's more like a lot of building up to getting into a relationship with him happened here, you know?

Walking with Stacey, I'm aware of the memories that must be flooding back, memories that feel different now.

So it's just interesting.

Was there any rumors about him during high school that you heard?

Yeah, there were rumors about him and a couple of girls that were in the same grade as me. But there were also rumors about the basketball coach and one of the girls. And there were also rumors about the photography teacher and one of the girls. So it was, like, almost like it was a very weird culture where it was almost, like, popular to be the one picked by them, which I know sounds really gross, but that's reality.

We talked for a while until I feel it's the right moment to ask something I've been wondering about. The first time Stacey heard the rumors about Brett.

Do you remember at what point you found out that he had had sex with Kate?

That's next time. This season on Not Just A Terrible Story.

He did everything he could to worm his way into our family.

I mean, he was a good-looking guy, but sheesh, there was a lot of rumors around Brett Fischer at the time.

There were lots of rumors, lots of teachers.

And I remember saying at the time, "Get out. There's red flags here. You need to listen to your intuition. Something is not right. You don't need to do this."

Deep down, I knew something was wrong. I knew something was going on. And then there was a knock at the door. They asked if Brett was there. I opened the door, like, "Yes, he's here." Had I known the truth, I think I would have made very different decisions.

There certainly are some very concerning facts in the two-page document that you shared with me.

And now I can say I was a victim, and so were my friends, and so were many other people in that classroom and in that school district and in that school.

Thank you so much for listening to Not Just A Terrible Story. We are an independent production. You can support us by sharing this podcast with a friend and leaving a five-star review wherever you are listening right now. Or hop over to our Substack, terriblestory.substack.com. There's a lot of great free stuff over there, archival photos, resources, and stories that didn't make it into the show. And you can also get early and ad-free episodes as a paid subscriber. To get in touch, send us an email at terriblestorypodcast@gmail.com. This podcast was created and produced by Katie Kline and me, your host, Sidney Gladow.