Transcript of Jeff Staple: Stop Pleasing Everyone. Build What You Believe In.

I don't know what the secret to success actually is, but I do know what the secret to failure is, and it's trying to please everybody.

Damn. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another exciting episode of Mick Unplugged, and today we are talking to an icon. He's turned New York's most overlooked bird into a global icon and helped change the sneaker culture forever. Nearly 3 decades into Staple, he's still creating what comes next. Please join me in welcoming the visionary, the endlessly curious, the guy that's behind the Pigeon, my guy, Mr. Jeff Staple. Jeff, how you doing today, brother?

Thank you very much. Hey, Mick, how are you?

Man, I am honored to be here with the GOAT, man. Like, I— I don't know, Jeff, if you've realized like how many lives you've touched and, and how this, this— I, I say the sneaker, the sneaker culture, the hip-hop culture, just the, the New York culture, the, the world culture has revolved around you. I don't know if you, if you actually realize that.

Damn, that's a lot. That's, that's a big statement. I don't know if it revolves around me. I do get glimpses when I travel of, you know, fans coming up to me and saying, um, how the work that I've done affected their lives, which is— yeah, Mick, it's crazy to me because at the end of the day, I mean, if you really break it down, like, I'm just a designer, which is like lots of people have— you're shaking your head.

I'm not gonna let you get away with that, sir. You are not just a designer. No, sir. But I appreciate the humbleness. I really do, and that's one of the things I appreciate about you, but you're not just a designer. But I'll let you continue. Go ahead.

I don't know, I just have immense gratitude because I have a lot of peers that are art directors, creative directors at agencies, or, you know, maybe aspiring to become one. And, you know, I was just telling my friend this recently, but like, if you were able to get yourself like a full-time creative director position at a big ad agency, You've made it. You're like in the 1% of the creative field, you know? So to now sort of have people come up and say like, your work changed my life, is like, it's kind of mind-boggling to me a little bit because I feel like I'm in that world of like, oh, I'm just hoping I could like make a living doing this. But yeah, the things that I've seen and experienced have just been like, it's priceless. It's honestly priceless. There's almost no words to describe it.

And, and that leads literally into the first question I ask everybody, right? So everybody knows the show, they know the first question I ask is, what is your because or your purpose or your mission, right? Like Simon Sinek did the whole start with why, and I appreciate that, but I think you're actually fueled and driven by your because, and that can change over time. So if I were to say, Jeff, man, like the end of 2026, yeah, you're still setting the standard. You still are taking risk. What's your because today? What's your purpose today?

Don't ever let them tell you no. That's it. All through my life, every step of the way, why are you making t-shirts? Why are you painting on sneakers? Why are you into sneakers? It's so weird, right? Why are you trying to start your own? What is streetwear? What is this fashion thing? Like, Get a job, like all of these things, every step of the way, people keep saying no. And my mission now, my why is to let the 17-year-old version of me, let them know that whatever the world is telling you you cannot do, I am living proof, my man or my girl, that this can be done. You can do this. I am like, I love the words you just said about me, but I have to admit, Mick, I am not special. I am an average GPA student. I did terribly on my SATs. I barely got into any college that I wanted to do. I'm a 2-time college dropout, never did well at jobs, right? Like, I am average as F can be, like, to the metrics of the world that we live in.

So I'll challenge you and say, if you're looking at it from a scholarly standpoint, I'll let you say that about yourself. I didn't see your grades. I didn't see all of that stuff, but I will let you say that about yourself. But I personally think the measure of a human is the impact that they make selflessly. Mm. And you define that, bro. Like, like, that is truly you. And I know, and I know everything wasn't easy. And I also think the mark of humans is, do you continue to persevere? And so that's where I want to get with you is like, when did this start for you? When did you know that this was going to be the path that you chose?

I often think the path chose me because I wasn't, I never sat down and said, I'm going to make a 5-year plan. Or, you know how the kids today make a vision board? Like I never made a vision board. I just sort of kept hustling my way through things. downtown New York City in the '80s and '90s. And this is in an industry, which, you know, now is called streetwear, street culture, sneaker culture, what have you, that wasn't an industry. Yeah. It literally had no name, nothing, right? So it wasn't like I could even be like, I'm gonna be like that dude. Like, there was nothing, you know? So I have to be honest, and I wasn't really following a path. It was just this need that I had to express what was inside of me. in a medium that I could do, which people are like, oh, it's genius that you started a t-shirt line. It was the only thing I could afford to do. I couldn't make denim or suiting or shoes. I could only make a t-shirt. I bought blank t-shirts on Canal Street. Okay. I bought ink on Canal Street. I had to break into my silkscreen lab at school to make t-shirts at night.

It was the only thing I could do. So, but the bottom line there is that I had this thing in me. I wanted to get it out. T-shirts was the perfect medium. And then the business of it grew from there. But it was, it was the most organic thing you could possibly think of.

So perfect segue into the business of that. So I was literally going to ask you, okay, so 17-year-old Jeff, right, has a vision, right? Wants to take some risk. But if we're being honest, there's a lot of that 17-year-old Jeff, right, that, that have the thing, that want to do the thing, But then the business side had to kick in. Like, talk about that when it goes from, oh, this is a cool idea, to, all right, now it's a real thing, and holy crap, I have purchase orders now, right? Like, I gotta go get money. Like, talk about the business side of that.

I mean, that's really what separates the boys from the men, right? Like, that's another one of my whys. Like, I know so many young people out there that are so talented. They have such raw, incredible creative artistic talent, And they need some, I guess maybe the word is like business acumen or like just some financial literacy and knowledge to get them to be able to apply that skill to what it is that they wanna produce. And I, unfortunately, you know, next year's the 30th anniversary of my brand. So I learned it the hard way by getting burnt, hand on the fire, you know, like all the sort of, mistakes that one could make, I made them all. So my thing is like, if I can help this kid, instead of making these 10 mistakes, you just have to make one. Because also, PS, guaranteed you're going to find 9 new mistakes on your own to make. So let me at least try to reduce some of them so that you can get to where you want to go quicker. Um, that's really what I want to do. But like, yeah, I think one of the earliest ones was probably, to be more specific, was like delegation.

Uh, you know, when you start something on your own, you tend to be like, a control freak and you want everything done a certain way, and you think that you want everything from your balancing your checkbook to your taxes to the way you get the trash taken out to production to packing orders to customer service to design and production— you want it all done your way, and I get it. But at a certain time, man, there's only 24 hours in a day. Yeah. And I don't care how much of a hustler you are, you cannot out hack the 24 hours in a day. So the only way you're going to expand is to bring other hands into your operation. And that took me like 5 years to learn, you know. And it's one of the things that I see most about young creative people is that they're holding it all together and they— maybe it's lack of trust or, you know, whatever it is, but like they don't want to like let it go. And actually, frankly, I even see really high-level, top-performing people still be like that today. Like, they might— you know what the adult version of that is called?

Micromanaging.

Yes, sir.

When you pay a man 6 figures to do a job and you're sitting there being like, it's like, no, let him do his job or let him fail. But either way, let it happen, you know?

I totally agree. Totally agree, man. And, you know, you've talked about This is the 30-year anniversary, man. Yeah. And one of the things I continue to appreciate you is how you stay relevant, which is a whole nother thing that's challenging in the fashion, right, industry, right? The design industry is how do you stay relevant? Because a lot of people, and when I say this, I don't want anybody throwing anything at me because it's okay. There are a lot of one-hit wonders. Well, guess what? One-hit wonders can make millions of dollars, right?

Oh, man. I mean, first of all, I just want to say it's a blessing. 30 years is crazy. My parents are immigrant Chinese parents who had basically a fortune cookie warehouse in Chinatown, right? And, even if you had a laundromat or a hardware store for 30 years, kudos, you know what I mean? Just having a business for 30 years. But, To your point, having a business that is predicated on the taste and aesthetic of youth, because as we all know, youths keep growing up. So if I started in '97, the kid who was 20 then, he's 50 now, right? That's not really my customer anymore. It's his son who's now 20. Mm-hmm. So I have to keep like backpedaling to youth culture to be like, what does this kid want now? And, you know, you could say fashion and sneakers is probably, you know, the most fickle, you know, industry, right? Like, you think about, even if you're a musician, like, hell, if Chaka Khan performs right now, I wanna see Chaka Khan perform, right? She's not making music for the youth, right? Right. So, like, you know, food, any other thing is like, I think there's more of a respect for OG-ness or experience, but I think in fashion, it's like, it's really, really rough in fashion.

So it is hard. How do I do it? I mean, the clichéd answer, which is like, you know, it is honest, is staying true to myself and being authentic to what I want to do. Does everything that I put out feel right to me? Deep in my soul feel right? You know, not like, oh, the bag is good, the opportunity is good, I'm going to get seen with this person. Those are all like sprinkles. But is what I'm about to embark on, can I like sit on a stage and proudly talk about this thing that I'm getting involved with? So that's authenticity is the number one thing. But I think to that point, especially in my industry, being authentic to the youth means maintaining some kid youthful level of thinking in your mind. So it's like you have to sort of think like a kid if you're going to be like creating stuff for these kids. Right? Yeah. So I always try— I think that's maybe the one deliberate thing that I do is I try to remain youthful and try to have like an eyes-wide-open mentality on everything that I experience, you know? And that means holding no judgment.

That means not being like, you know, judgmental about things. You know, to me, like, the killer move is the eye roll. You know the eye roll? Like, Here we go. Like, I don't even do it well because I'm not good at it. Because like, if somebody comes to me and they're explaining to me what they're doing and what their thing is about, sure, I may have heard it before. Sure, I may have seen people fail at this, but you know what? Let me hear you all the way through because you actually might drop some knowledge on me too. So I'll never be like, here we go, another one. Like, I think that's so dismissive to do that. So I try to keep that like— kid-like, like, nah, tell me, like, teach me what you're doing. I want to know, you know?

Yeah,

yeah,

yeah. I love that, dude. You know, you, you talked about your parents being immigrants and you talked about dropping out of school, right? Or, or not finishing school.

Twice.

2 times.

2 schools. Yeah, 2-time dropout.

And I know, because I, I know, uh, I'm a huge fan of you, right? I would say I'm your number one fan, but I don't want you to to geek out on it like that. But I know that there was a challenge, right? Like, Dad probably wasn't so happy about Jeff not continuing with school 2 times. Talk to us about that.

It was actually Mom that wasn't happy because Dad already gave up on me long before that, to be honest. Yeah, Mom was not happy. I went to NYU first for journalism, dropped out because I discovered design. Right, that this could be a career. Yeah. NYU wasn't offering any design courses, so I transferred and left all my credits and moved to Parsons School of Design, which was right up the street on Fifth Avenue. And yeah, to Asian immigrant parents who scraped their whole life together to be able to get their first, you know, the first one in my whole clan, like not just me in America, but In China, in Hong Kong, everyone, this is the first kid that's going to graduate an American high school and then go to an American college and get an American dream job, right? I was the one. Mm-hmm. And so for me to get into NYU for journalism and then drop out to then go to art school, to them was like, what the F is going on here? Like, Jeff, like you might as well have just told them like, I'm doing drugs and I'm going to jail.

Like art school? What is art school? How are you going to make a living even if you graduated art school? So my dad at that point was already like, peace, like, you do you. Like one step before disowning, I would say, like just whatever, you're on your own, right? My mom, obviously, because moms are the best, you know, she stuck by it and just said, let me see what this is about, right? So she gave me the grace of that. Her name is Grace, by the way. So she gave me grace. Did 2 years of art school, and then the Staple thing started to happen. I started to sell t-shirts around, these t-shirts that I was breaking into art school to make, I was selling them around town, and people were reordering them. And Mick, when I tell you the numbers, I mean, people were ordering 12 t-shirts and reordering like 24 t-shirts. Like, this is not a big business, right? Yeah. But I saw an opportunity here, and it actually, the reason why I left art school is because this Japanese dude hit me up one day, and he was like, I want to order 1,000 shirts from you, right?

Okay. Based on what he saw in New York. So, I was like, all right, this is a thing. I can't do 1,000 shirts while being a full-time student. So, I'm going to take a break, leave art school, and try to pursue this. And that was, you know, 29 and a half years ago, and I haven't looked back since. But no, it definitely like, you know, my dad and I didn't really have a relationship for a decade after that. Like, 10 years went by It wasn't until a Chinese newspaper in China wrote an article about me, and then he finally gave me, you know, a call about it. But yeah, it definitely severed, you know, it's a big sacrifice basically, you know what I mean? Sacrificing your family. Yeah. I know a lot of people, a lot of young people that I talk to, it's like the number one thing. Like, I'm not gonna pursue this because my parents don't think it's a serious pursuit. And I'm like, if you really believe in it, man, and if you wanna be happy and content with your life, You have a hard decision to make right now, man.

And you know what? If it's meant to be, if it all works out, they'll come back. It'll, it'll, it'll work itself out. Trust.

1,000%. 1,000%. I love that story. And I've heard you tell it before. And I get chills and goosebumps every time I hear it. And to have Jeff freaking Staple on my podcast, hearing that story for real, man, like it's numbing. And so Here's what I need everybody to do.

Oh, but— oh, go ahead, finish.

No, I was just gonna say, everybody, really quick, go to staplepigeon.com.

Yes, sir.

Really quick right now. Uh, some really cool releases out there. Uh, one of my favorites, I always love— like, I'm a, I'm always in black, right? So the black on gray, like, I'm always in some of that stuff. But just wanted to give the store a quick shout out. We'll come back to the store, but finish where you just were. Thank you.

I was just about to say, there's that saying, like when you board a flight and the flight attendants tell you, in case we lose cabin pressure, emergency masks will drop down. And they always say, put the mask on yourself before you put it on others. And they always, in the video, they always show a little kid and the mom's got to put it on first before she puts it even on her own damn child. And the reason why is because if you pass out, guess what? Your kid is effed too, you know? You have to take care of yourself. Right. So going back to the story that I just said about my parents, yes, it's tough that I lost touch with my dad for 10 years. Yes, it's tough that my mom didn't understand what I was doing and we severed our relationship too. And not to mention the girl I was seeing and everything. But like, you have to take care of yourself first before you can take care of others. Dude, like, I would say more than 50% of the people, they're like trying to make other people happy before they make themselves happy, and then they wonder why things aren't working out.

How could they? You yourself are not happy, you know?

Yeah, yeah, it's crazy, dude. It's crazy. Again, Jeff, such a huge fan of you, and you've taught me a lot about perseverance, and you've taught me a lot about Also giving people what they want. I think sometimes, not just in fashion and the thing and designing the things that you do, but as leaders, we try to overcomplicate things, right? Yeah. So as much as I love all the things that you do, I think there's also, when I think about Staple and the brand, there's also this unique simplicity about it, man. Like, it's like, You get the pigeon and sometimes that's it, right? Like, sometimes you get some logos and that's it. But you put so much respect in the quality that the simplicity also just sometimes gets lost. Like, talk about that a little bit.

Thank you for noticing that, by the way. Like, I do always try to drill down to the most simplistic value of what people want, you know? And, I mean, don't get me wrong, I respect that go on in couture land and high fashion and runway shows and stuff. It's beautiful. It's an artistic expression. But for me to just see like a kid on the subway, on the 6 train, head to toe Staple, I'm just like, damn, that's dope. Oh, you know what? Let me tell you the story. So during the pandemic days, right in the height of the pandemic, you know, UPS drivers were essential workers, right? And they were still making deliveries. Yeah. And I was outside my building and I saw the UPS driver drop off a package. He's all masked up and everything, right? and he's got his brown UPS uniform on, and it's hot on this day, and he like unzips it to like just get some air, and he opens it up like Superman, and he's got a Staple pigeon shirt on underneath, right? So I had to go up to him, and I'm like, I was like, dude, great shirt.

I love it. I love that you're wearing that. And he's like, you know what? The second I got my stimulus check, I went straight to Staple and started shopping. And I was like, That to me, the fact that this hardworking person took his stimulus check and like, he doesn't know who I am, right? Like, he didn't know before. Like, he just supported something that came out of my brain. Like, I was just so— that to me meant more than any other runway show, Vogue cover, whatever. Like, regular dudes and dudettes just like effing with the brand is my dream, you know? Yeah. So, in order to achieve that, you just have to— you have to keep things as simple and direct and as plausible as possible, you know. And sometimes I do do things that are like, I would say, ornate, complicated, high concept, right? But you gotta— you gotta balance it, you know. Like, um, another— another lesson that I— that I want to share is like, um, I— I was blessed enough to do a project with the RZA, who's the founder of Wu-Tang Clan, right?

Yep.

And if you're a fan of Wu, you'll know that their albums are like encyclopedias. Like, they're so dense with knowledge and mathematics and everything. Yeah. But, but RZA said to me, knowing that, every album we have to put at least 2 songs on there like an Ice Cream or a Method Man that are club bangers, because you can't release an all high-concept art album. You have to have the radio hit That's the carrot that lures the kid in so that you can then give them the vegetables, you know?

Yep.

Yeah. So I apply that to everything that I try to do.

Pretty much.

Like, like the best sneakers that are out there. Yeah. Like in the collabs or the brands that you work with, To design, man. Like, when did you decide to expand from t-shirts into full-blown lineup and roster and men, women, accessories, the whole deal?

Again, this is a— this is part of that strange plan, but like, it was the stores that asked for it. So I was just doing t-shirts and the stores would be like, yo, Jeff, it's getting cold. If you make a hoodie or a jacket, I bet people will love it. So I was like, okay, let me give that a try. I vividly remember one of the store buyers saying like, you should make a bag. Like, what would a Jeff Staple bag be like? And I was like, yeah, let me try that. And that's how the line really organically expanded. Beyond clothing, you know, into some of the other things that we've worked on, this is a different part of my brain that sort of gets like lit up. It's like, you know, I don't know if you were following like graffiti artists from back in the day, but if you were like a graph artist, your goal was to get your logo on every train surface everywhere, right? If you were traveling, you want to hit up so that your tag was out there. To me, the pigeon and the Staple logo is my tag.

OK. So my goal is to get that on every surface, whether it's a shoe. I mean, we've done collaborations now with like Shake Shack hamburger. Like, I just love the fact that like you can find that pigeon everywhere. And it's like, it's just, you know, getting up. That's the term from graffiti artists is like, I want to get up, which is like getting your tag up. And, you know, it's not too different than like in a more traditional fashion sense, like Ralph Lauren and the Polo Horse, right? Like you could go to the Polo Mansion, you could go get Ralph coffee, right? You could get a suit or you can get boxer shorts. So for me, I really aspire to that vision. I sort of want to be like the modern-day version of that and apply my stamp of approval to all these different surfaces.

I love it. I love it. So I want to give you the floor and like talk about what are some of the cool things that you have coming up? Like what, what can we be on the lookout for? And then I got to figure out how I can get a custom pair of Breaknecks or something because, you know, like, oh yeah, those are my kicks right there, bro.

I got you on that. Nice.

Those are my kicks.

Um, so coming up, I mean, as I mentioned, 2027 is our 30th anniversary. So on a high level, It's fun to always look back and see like all the work that's been done, and then figuring out a way, which I'm still doing now, on the best way to showcase that. Because here's the thing about being 30 as a brand when your customers are averaging 17 to 22-year-old, right? Like, honestly speaking, you have to be a little bit nuanced in how you promote that. Yeah. Not to say that I want to hide it, But not to say that like I want to be like on some unct shit and be like, did you know back in the day I used to do like— you don't want to be that either, right? So you really gotta, you gotta like straddle that line well. Like, I, I've been here, done that. There is legacy, but there's also freshness. That's the, that's the balance that I'm trying to figure out. And so we're working on that celebration for next year. And the other thing that I've been really, really bullish on is physical retail stores. So in this, in this day and age of e-commerce and Amazon overnight shipping and AI this and virtual reality that and crypto this, I'm all about the experience that one gets when they walk into a retail store, have a great sales experience, you know, dap it up with a fellow consumer, and just gets like an incredible in-real-life experience.

And I want to expand that globally. So, I want to have different satellites all around the world that allow for that interaction to happen. So, now, we're at like 6 physical retail stores now all around the world, and it's just amazing to witness firsthand.

Where are those 6 stores?

So, there's New York, there's Hong Kong, and then there's Shanghai, Guangzhou, Beijing. There's a lot of them in China because, you know, I'm Chinese in nature. So it obviously makes sense. But like, I was just in our Guangzhou store last week and it was so cool 'cause we had a DJ there. He was playing vinyl only and he brought out a Common, Common, you know, the, the, the rapper. Yeah. Yeah. He brought out a Common record that he was DJing and I designed the COVID for that Common album in 1999. 1999. Now it's 2026. 27 years later, this man, this Chinese man in Guangzhou, China, who's never left China, is DJing a vinyl Common record that I designed. And I felt like that was such the manifestation of how this message of hip-hop culture, sneaker culture, fashion can really travel the world and affect people like that. That was, that was it for me. Seeing that was just like, wow. Mission accomplished.

Dude, how did I not know that?

It just happened last week. It's okay.

No,

that you designed the COVID Oh yeah, I know. That's, that's what, uh, that's what Maggie here and I are trying to work on, educating all the shit that I do.

So, so what else has Jeff done that I might not know that Jeff has done?

We're working on that. Okay, we're working on that. Yeah.

All right. Yeah, to be determined, to be announced, right?

Yes. Yes.

Yeah, I like it. I like it. I like it. So again, I know how gracious you are with your time. I know how busy you are, man. Like, I want to get you out of here on my Unplugged 5 rapid-fire quick questions. Okay. Come up with quick answers.

All right. All

right. So the pigeon, the first thing I ever wanted to ask you, man, like, you also being from New York, did Mike Tyson ever get mad at you? Did Mike Tyson say, hey, that's my pigeon right there? No.

Dude, I spent 5 hours with Mike Tyson one-on-one on the rooftop of his Brownsville childhood building. He still has at least 500 pigeons up there. And so I wanted to do a video with Mike because he obviously heard about my love of pigeons. And I remember his manager allocated 1 hour of time for us to speak. He ended up just chilling for 5 hours with me, just talking. Like, it was amazing. There's a video of that floating around that I'll be happy to send you, and maybe you could intersplice some, some clips of that. But it was such an incredible conversation with Mike.

That's awesome.

So no beef with Mike, no beef at all. You don't want beef with Mike.

Nobody wants beef. Like, I've heard stories— you're in New York, so I'm sure you probably have seen some of these— Mike Tyson out at night, just like You, you look at him the wrong way, he might, he might go off.

I've seen, I've seen him on interviews where the interviewer asks him a question he doesn't like and he just, he just goes into Evander Holyfield mode. Like,

I am telling you, it will always be virtual if I'm with Mike because I don't know. It's always gonna be virtual. Shout out to Mike Tyson though. All right, second question. What's in your closet that would surprise your fans?

How about a skirt? No, not on some, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, not on some weird funny stuff.

I'm letting it marinate. Yeah,

yeah, yeah. No, I've recently discovered the beauty of wearing, I guess the man version is like the kilt, right? Which is basically like a long dress. And man, the ladies had it right this whole time. I got this really fancy dope one that like I've worn to galas and stuff, and it's the most comfortable thing, and it's like progressive. You got— obviously you gotta like style it all in the right way, but I've got a couple of skirts and dresses in my wardrobe right now that people will probably be surprised about. If you look on my Instagram, you'll see me rocking them sometimes. But yeah, it's— I only pull it out for special occasions.

We have pictures of that right here too. Look at that. Look at that. If you could put one of your designs in the Design Hall of Fame, what would it be?

Wow. The first thing that I wanna say is actually not the Pigeon Dunk, which is what everyone would think. I'm looking around to see if I have one, but I don't. We could put up the image over here. But it's a sneaker that I helped work on called Nike Considered. And it was Nike's first foray into a fully sustainable, ecologically minded product. And working with that team on that project was just amazing. It was life-changing for me. So it would probably be that one in the Hall of Fame.

See, now I gotta ask a different question, 'cause like my favorite shoe is the Breakneck. So I was gonna ask you, what's your favorite? Well, like, so let me just ask this question. It'll be rapid-fire 5, but I wanna know the origin. How did you— what was the concept of Breakneck? Because that is not just— I don't mean like my favorite Jeff Staple shoe. I mean my favorite shoe.

That's amazing. Thank you so much.

Is freaking Breakneck, bro. Like, it's stylish, it's comfortable. Like, there's so— there's options. The, the black pair, the white— like, because I'm a white sneaker guy for the most part, so you give me the white on black, oh my Bro, I could—

yeah,

I could talk about this shoe, the Breakneck, all day.

Well, the Breakneck— do you know what breakneck is?

A fast pace? Break it down for me.

Okay, yeah, you're right, breakneck is that. I'll tell you the concept for how I named it Breakneck. First of all, Breakneck is a hiking trail in upstate New York. It's, it's, it's called Breakneck. You can look it up. It's about 45 minutes outside of the city. So I hike there a lot, you know, I love hiking there, and I wanted a shoe that could transition from the city to the trail. And you'll see if you turn over your Breakneck sneakers, the tread is really, really aggressive and grippy, right? Yeah. Like you could literally rock scramble. And the outsole company that we work with to make that is called Vibram. They're the pinnacle outsole company. That outsole that we made is custom made by us. So a lot of other brands, buy off-the-shelf stock outsoles. They have a regular, you know, pattern. If you look at your— this is gonna blow your mind, Meg. When you take your Breaknecks and turn them over and hold them left and right side by side, they form pigeon wings. It's a wing pattern like that.

Bro! Yes.

Oh. Yes.

Okay.

So that was custom made by us. Okay. The grip is amazing. But again, if you wear that from the trail, now go to the city and head to the Village or whatever, You're fly. It's dope. Like, you know, they transition really well. So that was the concept for that shoe, the Breakneck.

So here's what I'm gonna do, because this is my favorite shoe. The next, the first 10 people that message me Breakneck, I'll message you back if you're the first 10, I'll get your size. I'm gonna order you some online because I need other people to love this shoe. I mean, I know people love it. I got you. But I need my viewers and listeners to understand why I love this shoe, and now I got the story of the pigeon that I didn't even know, and my mind is blown. That's crazy.

I, I co-sign that. I'll support. I'll hook it up too, Mick, on my end too. Let's do it.

Well, then I gotta do something else because I wanna show my love to you. So this is me showing love to you. Like, we'll get the— we'll get the Mick Unplugged right back out there.

Maybe we'll do— how about the ones that come from me are signed? I signed them.

There you go.

You can't do that one, Mick.

I can't do that one. And one of them's gonna be a size 12, and the address is gonna be mine, okay? Just throw that out there. I love it. All right, so Jeff, last question for you, man. As when this biopic comes out—

Damn.

And, and we're watching the story of Jeff Staple, and, and we get to that moment where we start to understand who Jeff is today, What's, what's a word or a sentence that you want to make sure is in that moment that defines who Jeff Staple is?

It's probably going to be this saying that I live by very often, maybe on a daily basis. It is, I don't know what the secret to success actually is, but I do know what the secret to failure is, and it's trying to please

everybody. Damn.

I hope people remember that.

I, I think you actually were probably talking to me right now without knowing that you were talking to me. Like, I, I kind of needed that. Yeah, I kind of needed that, bro.

Word. Yeah, man.

Ladies and gentlemen, this has been the GOAT, the legend, the icon, Jeff Staple. Jeff, bro, We gotta do this again.

We do.

Um, because there's, there's like 20 other questions personally that I just wanted to rap with you about, but I know that you have so much going on. I wanted to respect your time. I wanted to, to just appreciate you and let all of my viewers and listeners know like who my number one is. Like, you, you go to my closet, I'm not, I'm not 17, 18, 19, but I still rock staple P. I still am that, that kid that likes to, to, to be in the culture, man. And I just wanted to thank you for allowing the 18-year-old me to always be here, bro. Thank you.

That's right. Keep, keep that kid in you, man.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And to all the viewers and listeners, remember, your because is your superpower. Go unleash it.