Transcript of The Biggest THREAT to Christianity is Happening RIGHT NOW (ft. Philip Anthony Mitchell) | Live Free with Josh Howerton

This is what's happening with this ideology. It's like a python sitting in the corner. It's just sitting there while we are running around acting like we have a false sense of security until the day comes when it lunges and then it wraps its grips around all of our systems, all of our policies. It wraps its grip around everything and then chokes the life out of Christianity, chokes the life out of Western fundamentals, chokes the life out of everything until it's too late.

Well, hey, Live Free Nation. Before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lake Point Church in Dallas, Texas, but the Live Free Nation is spread all over the country and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, man, I wish I could be part of something like this, we want to invite you to take a simple next step, and that is join us for church online. Every weekend we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook, and our church online platform. And it's more than just watching a service. There are live hosts in the chat, prayer teams ready to stand with you, and people all around the world worshiping together in And so whether you're exploring the faith, coming back to church, or just looking for a place to start, Church Online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Pointe. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend. And now enjoy the podcast.

Pastor Philip Anthony Mitchell, I've been waiting for this for a real long time, man.

Man, thank you for having me on your podcast, man. I appreciate it.

Well, we, you know, we basically had a whole podcast before the podcast.

Yeah, we did.

We did. Dude, so, uh, Man, I'll just— I'm not this kind of guy, but my eyes are going to sweat when I tell you this. The number of times that I've been either discouraged or I've been sitting in my garage doing a workout and listening to a Philip Anthony Mitchell sermon.

Oh man.

And you preach like a freight train. That's why I like listening to you. I might talk about this in a second. I like people As a preacher, I like preachers who preach like everybody they're listening to is dangling over hell and their only chance is what they hear in the next few minutes. And, um, that's how, that's how you preach, man of God. And, uh, so I thank you, uh, for spending time with me today. But more than that, I thank you for how God has used you in my life.

And thank you for sharing that, man. That's very encouraging, man. Um, I think sometimes we all need to hear that. Right. I think sometimes we never know the impact that we may be having on the other side of a camera or microphone. And, uh, the fact that I've watched so many of your podcast clips and, you know, I've been impacted by some of the things that you have taught right here on your podcast, man, it's, um, it's very humbling to hear you say that. So I appreciate that, man.

Yes, sir.

Yeah.

Yes, sir. Well, dude, um, I got a lot of things that I've been waiting a long time to ask you.

Yeah.

Uh, but let me start right here, man. Um, I got this weird thing where, uh, and I'm gonna shout out this guy, like when I travel, if I'm at an airport.

Yeah.

When people come grab me and they're like, hey man, I listen to you, and then they always say the same 2 names. Hey man, I listen to you and Joby Martin and Philip Anthony Mitchell. That's what they say, the same 3 names every single time. Uh, so what I'm saying is, dude, I feel like the internet like kind of discovered you like 3 years ago?

Correct.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I know, uh, you didn't pop outta nowhere 3 years ago. So man, will you just like take as long as you want? Will you just tell me your story? Like what's, what's the story of Philip Anthony Mitchell before the internet discovered Philip Anthony Mitchell?

Yeah, man. I, uh, first, I don't think there's any such thing as an overnight success in the kingdom. Uh, I think what we see is sometimes God will elevate a man or woman who have been faithful in obscurity for a period of time. And, uh, and that really is my story. Um, my wife and I and 10 other believers, we planted a church from scratch, um, in Atlanta back in October of 2012. And for all of 10 years, man, I've been preaching in obscurity and being faithful and dealing with trials and tribulations and betrayals and hardships and just doing my best to survive very difficult seasons. Um, I really had no real desire, um, for where I am right now. Um, I do feel like there was some vanity in my heart during those 10 years, and some jealousy in my heart during those 10 years. And I did spend a lot of time wringing that all out of my heart. And, um, and, uh, my wife and I survived some very difficult seasons, man. And, uh, but I've been on the battlefield, man, for quite some time. And even now, I feel like what I'm experiencing right now, God has not done for me, per se.

I feel like he's done it for himself. And I'm just trying to do a good job of stewarding what God has entrusted to me in this season.

What's the— because dude, I've heard you mention this in snippets and I've always wanted to be like, tell me the story. Where did you come from? And what's the— I don't know. What's the 4-minute story of from where I came from all the way up to the time that you planted 2819?

Man, I was— so I'm originally from Queens, New York. I was born and raised there. I was born to immigrant parents from Trinidad. My parents were believers, had a small ministry in their home, but the environment around me was very tough, very urban, and it had a hole in my soul. And, you know, my parents tried to teach me scriptures and all the things, but it just never registered to me. I was longing for community, and I found that in the street, and I found that around men who was in the street. And, um, at the age of 12, man, I went out in the street at the age of 12. Man, I was, man, selling crack cocaine at the age of 12. I'd been arrested multiple times by the age of 17. I spent my 18th birthday in a prison cell at Rikers Island, you know, and because of legal trouble, my mother had to get me out of New York. I ended up in North Carolina, and another 10 years in darkness. It was trafficking weight up and down the Eastern Seaboard, running around with women, shootouts in the streets, man, all the things.

And I'll never forget during those times, I said, seen God trying to peek through. I remember being on campus and a young lady walking up to me saying, you know, God is calling you to do something with your life. And I would blow that off. And I had a similar experience like that with another person in the student union at my college. But it got to the point where I was, uh, I was empty and I was suicidal. I was about 24 years of age, had a beautiful girlfriend at the time who would become my wife, had a dope apartment, had a dope car. Um, had a little bit of money in the bank, but I was empty.

Mm.

You see what I'm saying, Josh? I was so empty on the inside. I had all of the trappings of worldly success, but I had no peace. I had no— I had no joy and no sense of direction. And, um, I'll never forget during that time, I used to have like what they call dreadlocks. And, um, I was sitting in my apartment alone and, uh, I had a shotgun on my lap and I had a fifth of Hennessy, and I was trying to get myself drunk enough, uh, to just pull that trigger. By God's providence, my door to my apartment was unlocked, and, um, the female that used to do my hair, she came to visit me that night. I don't know why. And she walked right through the door and she looked over and she saw me sitting there on the floor with that shotgun on my lap. And she came and she sat down right next to me, and she grabbed my hand, and she didn't say one word, right? And she just sat on the floor next to me. There she is, and there I am. I got tears in my eyes, this shotgun in my lap, and this empty bottle of Hennessy.

And it's like God used her to keep me alive in that moment. It's like her presence talked me off of that ledge. You know, sometimes people don't need our words. They just need a ministry of presence. And, uh, that kept me alive in that moment, but it didn't sustain. And 6 months later, I found myself in the same place, empty, suicidal, wanted to unalive myself. Um, this time God would use my girlfriend at the time. She got into a car crash, and we was living together, and she came home and she put on gospel music. And it was the first time in my life I had ever heard gospel music. And she walked the apartment, she lifted her hands, Josh, and she was praising God and thanking him that she didn't die in that car crash. And I'm staring at her, and this thought comes to me, whatever that is, I want that for myself. Right? And I crawl into the bathroom, I shut the door, and I started yelling at God. And I'm saying, like, if you exist, you will meet me right here. And I'm crying and I'm weeping and I'm yelling. And then I would just feel like this strong presence just engulfed that bathroom.

And then all of a sudden, tears of sorrow began to like dry up. And, uh, God met me in that bathroom on the floor over a toilet seat. And I knew I had passed from death to life because that night— I tried to lay with my girlfriend, and for the first time I felt convicted about sin. For the first time I felt this was wrong. And, uh, I started sleeping on the couch. And, uh, it was just a couple days later, a stranger put a Bible in my hand, man. And that's how God brought me into the kingdom. And then 6 months after that, April 14th, 2004, I was reading Proverbs chapter 3, verse 5 and 6. Trust in the Lord with all of your heart. And lean not on your own understanding. In all of your ways acknowledge me, and I will direct your path. And for the first time, I felt God speak to me for myself. I felt God speak to me about pastoral ministry. I felt God spoke to me about a church. And I started hearing God. And as fast as I can hear it, I wrote all of this down on a piece of paper.

I folded it in half, and I put it in the back of a picture frame. And then I ran from God for the next 4 years. Um, I felt insecure. I felt unworthy. Um, I didn't foresee that God can use a person like me to do anything in ministry. And so I ran from God for 4 years before I finally surrendered to him. And, uh, and after that surrender, God will ultimately lead me down a pathway of serving other men for 8 years until I planted our very first church from scratch in October of 2012, man.

So like, there's like 8 things there that I like, just, you know, make my eyes sweat. Do you have any idea who that was that handed you that Bible?

Yeah, man, it was a preacher, man, who I would learn he was married to a woman who I would later learn was friends with my wife. And so it was just sovereign, man, that he and I would bump into each other. He put that Bible in my hand and he said to me, if you're gonna know God, you gotta know this word. And, uh, and I just began to read it starting with Proverbs, and then I read the Book of Revelation. I don't know why I did that. Then I read the Book of Daniel. I don't know why I did that. But from the very beginning, um, I was thinking about the end. And from the very beginning, I thought about eternity, and I thought about all the things I read about in Revelation. So from the very beginning, I felt like God was doing something in my heart. And it was also around that time the movie, um, The Passion of the Christ was released. I remember going to see the movie The Passion of the of Christ and, uh, and seeing the dramatization of what Christ suffered for you and I and for all those who will belong to him.

And that rocked me, man. And, uh, I thought to myself, the price he paid on the cross was so graphic and so significant. And man, I just wanted to be faithful to him. And I thought I would have this perfect race, but I fumbled. You know, and, um, um, but yeah, man, I almost— I look back on that season and, man, I could just think about my salvation and I just burst into tears anyways. Like, for me, I don't need another home. I don't need another vehicle. I don't need a bigger Instagram following, man. I don't need another dollar in my pocket to be thankful for what God has done for me.

Amen.

Right? Like, as God is my witness, I tell you, no lie, if God did not do another thing for me, man, just the fact that he kept me alive when I was crazy in the street and that he brought me into the kingdom, man, that's enough for me to give him thanks and praise for, for the rest of my life, bro. Especially when I think about where I could have been. You know, uh, I could have been eternally separated from him. And, you know, sometimes I get flashbacks of some of the things I dealt with in the street and think all that time God was— his grace was keeping me alive, knowing that he was going to call me to the kingdom. And the fact that he gave me anything to do in the kingdom at all. Man, I'm thankful for that for the rest of my life, man.

Amen.

Yeah, man.

So then, dude, you can talk about whatever you want to talk about and not, that's up to you. But if I understand, I'm a preacher and it's like I'm interested in preachers. So if I understand it right, the church that you sort of came of age in is pretty different than kind of who you are now.

Yeah.

If I understand it correct. It's like, how did you, how did you get from where you started?

Yeah.

To where you are, man.

That first church I planted, I led that church for a decade and, uh, sorry, I'm talking about like the church you like first started going to. Oh yeah, man. So man, the churches I went to in the beginning, um, are very different than the way I am right now.

That's what's interesting to me.

Yeah, I, uh, I went to, uh— nobody's ever asked me that before.

So I'll set it up and then maybe you can figure out what— so like, like, dude, the reason I like listening to you—

Wow.

Is, I mean, it's like, bro, you just open up the world. Like, It's what I saw. You open up the word and basically you read a little bit and then you talk a little bit and then you read a little bit more and then you talk a little bit more. Read, talk, read, talk. And you just, it's like, we know, me and you both know this verse line by line. And he gave the sense.

Yes.

And it's like, from what I understand, we don't need any names or anything like that. But from what I understand, that's maybe not quite the same theological—

No.

So whatever you're comfortable with, I'm just curious, bro, how did you get from there to here?

So the churches I went to was nothing like what 2819— and, uh, you know, I'll honor those men. I will not disrespect them.

That's right.

I feel like each person played a part in my life along the way. But what happened for me was, uh, 2 things was happening at the same time. There is a, um, uh, I went to, uh, I went to Israel in 2018. And, uh, I was at, uh— my wife and I had toured the whole country from the north to the south. When we got to Jerusalem, uh, we went into the Garden Tomb, and I came out the Garden Tomb, and I heard, like, singing off to my right in another language I did not know. And, uh, you know, none of them looked like me, but I didn't really care. I just kind of crept into their gathering. I was the only Black dude in their gathering, Josh. You know what I mean? And, uh, I was, I was in the back. And I could feel the Spirit of God, although I did not know the language. And, uh, and the person who was leading the gathering, you know, he motioned to me to come to the front. And I came to the front, and by God's providence, there was a gentleman on our tour bus who spoke the language of the people who was having the gathering.

It was Portuguese. And the man said to me in Portuguese, he said, I've been to your nation, and I saw the church in your nation and how a large section of the church is dead and is dying. And God says to you, young man, do you want to go go back to your country and do something about it. And I said to him, yes. And I fell on my knees, and, uh, and that group of Portuguese believers laid their hands on me, and they began to pray God's— they began to pray God's fire all over me. And it was like in that moment, a couple things happened. Number one, that was for me like an Isaiah 6 moment, right? Where for the first time in my Christian walk, I really understood the supreme holiness of God's nature right there at the Garden Tomb. I also like God gave me a clear charge that to go back to the United States and cry aloud and spare not, right? No matter what it costs me, even if it costs me my life. So I made a vow to God that I would obey. And, um, and coming back from that, God also exalted for me, um, his word.

Like, there's so many people, we see the Bible as just um, fodder for devotions. But for me, I understand the scriptures at that point was God's word written. It was his voice written. And from that point, I wanted to have— even as I'm staring at this, this Bible that's worn and has this leather thing, which means you use it, I start to see the God, God's word as his voice written. And I wanted to have a fidelity to it until God called me home. And, um, And so God burned me there, right? And at the same time, I was listening to a pastor that's right here in Texas. His name was Matt Chandler.

Shout out.

Yeah, he was— I was listening to Matt Chandler around that time, who now would become a friend and a brother to me. He was walking people through— I think at that time he was walking through like 1 Peter, and something about that intrigued me, you know? And I began for the first time to just walk people through New Testament letters and then Old Testament books. And I felt that that was germane for me, that fit me. And, uh, I just made a decision that I'm gonna, I'm gonna kind of go that path. And then something supernatural would happen. Um, 4 years after that encounter in Israel, um, my wife and I were getting ready to go to vacation on Jekyll Island, and it was a Thursday morning, and I felt God speak to me that, um, You're gonna have to leave this old church behind. You're about to start a brand-new ministry. And I didn't tell my wife. And, uh, we get to the island, and we're at breakfast, and my wife said to me, she said, honey, I gotta tell you something, uh, but I don't want you to be mad at me when I tell you.

I said, okay, well, give it to me straight then. She said, I want you to just, like, hear me out. I said, okay, I'm gonna hear you out. Give it to me straight then. And she said, how would you feel if we abandoned what we used to do and changed the name of the ministry and start all over? And I said, when did God speak that to you? And she said, on Thursday morning, the exact same morning God spoke to me. And I knew that day that the ministry I led was going to be put to the side and I was going to start this brand new ministry. And then this is where the preaching comes in. We launch 2019 in January of '23. Um, and in the months leading up to that, I was driving around Atlanta just listening to the book of Matthew. I don't know why, but I was doing that. And then God spoke to me, I want you to preach through this book. And, you know, I think about my context. I said to myself, well, Lord, you see my demographic. They're not gonna last if I do that. It's gonna take so long.

And the Lord told me, I want you to do that. I want you to preach through the book of Matthew. And so I did that out of obedience. And then one month into doing that, he told me, now I want you to get rid of your outlines in the pulpit. Do them at home. Don't bring them into the pulpit. And, um, I disobeyed for 3 months, and I finally surrendered. And he told me, I want you to stay in this lane until I say otherwise. And so for me, bro, the way I preach right now, um, in terms of like exegetical preaching, I do that out of obedience. Um, the veracity of my preaching is because for me, I feel like every time I stand in a pulpit, it's life or death for me. Um, I think about the fact that anytime I stand to preach, it could be my last time, or it could be the last time somebody in the audience is listening.

Right.

And so for me, my preaching is anchored in this one passage. You know, when the Apostle Paul wrote to the church in Colossae, he said to them in Colossians chapter 1, verse 28, he said, him we proclaim, right? He said, warning everyone, and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone mature before Christ. And so I felt like God put that passage in my heart, and I felt like that has been the anchor for my preaching. I want to warn, I want to teach, and I want my preaching in the end to present as many people as possible mature before our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. And so for me, proclamation is not a game. Um, there's no game. There's no— it's not a game for me. It's, it's, it's actually, for me, Josh, it's actually life or death for me. And, uh, anytime I stand to minister, I want to preach like it's the last time I preach, uh, not knowing if I get another chance to proclaim the name of Jesus or to call a sinner to repentance. So it's that serious for me, man.

Bro, you know that, uh, I love— I could, I could talk preaching all day. You know that? Have you ever heard that quote? It's, uh, Richard Baxter, 16th century Puritan. He said it's the greatest preaching quote of all time, in my opinion. He said, he said, I preached as never sure to preach again, as a dying man to dying men.

Richard Baxter.

Richard Baxter.

I've never heard that quote.

As never sure to preach again, as a dying man to dying men. I'm no Philip Anthony Mitchell, but the last thing I do when I get on stage before the lights come up, is I quote a verse and I say that to myself. I preached. As in, we don't know, man. God willing, this will never happen to either of us. Somebody could take our life in the pulpit next week.

Yeah, it could happen.

It's happened to many men before us.

It has. It has. And, uh, I wear bulletproof vests when I'm on tour.

Yeah.

Because I'm aware of that. And I think about even some of the threats that people have made against my own life, you know? And, um, before I preach, man, I'm about to cry, man. Dang.

Come on.

Before I preach, wherever I go to speak, I, uh, I'll kneel down at a chair and I'll thank God for finding me usable.

That's right.

I thank God for finding me usable and for the glorious opportunity to proclaim his holy word. You know, and I'll remind myself that I can't do that without him. And I will bring up my fear and my anxiety. That's crazy. I still get afraid sometimes when I go preaching.

Same.

I'll bring up my fear and I'll bring up my anxiety. And I always thank God. Like, I just thank him that he even saw in me anything worth using, you know, to proclaim his word, you know, and, uh, I would just never imagine, you know what I mean? Like, considering all that I've done and the lives that I've ruined, you know, that God would use me to open his word and proclaim it. And so every time I preach— and I'm sorry, man.

You good, man. You good.

I'm sorry, man. Every time I preach, man, I, uh, I just feel this deep sense of humility, and I feel this deep burden to To honor Christ, but to honor the preaching of his word. And you know what, man, I, uh, it's a struggle for me sometimes because if I could be fully transparent, like, I don't have a seminary degree. I remember going to seminary for one semester and I had to drop out because of my family. You know, it was like, man, you always locked in a room, you working on a paper, and I'm gonna drop out. And so for me, can I just be fully transparent?

Mm-hmm.

Man, sometimes I feel so insecure in my preaching. I feel like my preaching is so unpolished, right? I listen to you talk, man. I listen to you talk. And when I hear you talk, like I listen to this podcast, it's crazy that I'm sitting here at this table. I've listened to you sit here at this table and speak with such depth, like how you just quoted Baxter. And I've sat here listening to some depth and I would, I would, I would listen to clips from you and clips of men that I see that have depth and I would push back in the table and I would just cry sometimes. I would get down on the knees, on my hands and knees, and I was like, Lord, like, I want that type of depth. You know, I want to— I want that type of depth, you know. And is it gonna take seminary? Do I have to read more books? Like, sometimes when I feel— I feel like my preaching is so unpolished, you know. And, uh, It's so unpolished. And man, I just kneel at my chair and I just ask God to just, to just help me to the best of my ability, man.

But I, I want more depth. I would, I would love to go to seminary. I would love to learn. I would, man, I'm just a hood dude from the street trying my best to be obedient to what God has called me to do. And I'm trying my best to steward to the best of my ability what God has entrusted to me, man. And through all of the warfare and, uh, you know, the backlash and the attacks and everything, man. It's like, man, people demonizing me for platforms I didn't even ask for, bro.

That's right.

You know what I mean? It's like I didn't even ask for any of this, you know. I'm just doing my best to be, uh, a faithful witness to Jesus, and now living a life in a fishbowl trying to protect my family. Man, and I just want to be faithful to proclamation till God call me home. You know what, Josh? I like, uh, I, uh, there is a lot of things in ministry men may see as like reward, you know, uh, you know, size of ministry. You know, you have a very large church and, you know, my church is growing, or size of platform. You have a very big podcast audience, and mine is growing and all these things. But, you know, at the end of the day, bro, um, I had to redefine what success in ministry is going to be for me. And, uh, I see so many people start well, but they don't finish well.

That's right.

You know, um, you said something so profound, bro. You said something so profound not that long ago. It could have been recent. I saw you say a clip— you was in your car, Man, this blew my mind. And it was like, I want to expose something about pastors. And you said you've been around megachurches your whole life, and you talked about 3 megachurch pastors. You didn't call their name, and I think I know who one of them was. And you talked about what they're doing right now. And then you said something so profound, it rocked me. You said, you know why these things don't make the news? Because nobody talks about planes that land safely.

Planes that land safely don't make the news.

Man, that rocked me when you said planes that land safely don't make the news. And I sat back and I thought about that. That was one of most profound statements I've ever heard from a pastor. And you know what, you're right, right? All we like to do is talk about scandal, but we never talk about those who are, who are doing as well.

That's right.

And, uh, and they're so in line with what my definition of ministry success for me is, that if by the grace of God I could come down to the end of my life and say with the Apostle Paul, bro, I fought the good fight. Right? I finished the race and I kept the faith. If some way, somehow, Josh, the Lord would keep me to be able to say that in the end, like, land the plane.

That's it.

You know, without blowing it up along the way. For me, man, that would've been ministry success for me. And then the reward for me, Josh, I'm gonna speak for myself, and the ultimate reward for me, I look forward to the day Where it will no longer be like I feel his presence in my prayer room, but I actually look forward to the day when I will first see the feet of Christ, right? And his knees. And before I even look up, just look him in his eyes, I would, I would take the crown off my head and I would cast it at his feet.

Mm-hmm.

You know, and I will get a chance to thank him personally for rescuing me and giving me anything to do in his kingdom. And that for me is gonna be my highest reward. It's not gonna be the size of 2019 or how many conferences I do or how large my Instagram following is gonna be. It's gonna be the day I could put that crown and lay it down at his feet, man, and just show him the gratitude that is due him. Man, I'm actually looking forward to that day, Josh. You know, as sure as God is my witness, that to me is gonna be the ultimate reward for the sacrifice, the labor, the toils, the warfare, the hardship, the suffering that we are enduring right now. All of it temporary, but I look forward to that day, bro. I wanna— I wanna do what you said. I wanna land the plane well. Land the plane. Yeah, man.

Dude, I'll say something that I, you know, I think you'll receive it in the right way.

Yeah.

I hope you never become a polished preacher.

Really?

I hope you never do. Dude, there is— I'm reading, uh, right now, it's— I'm not even doing my podcast talk. I'm just talking too much, preaching to talk right now.

Yeah.

I'm reading a biography of Charles Spurgeon right now. And, uh, yeah, I mean, you know who that is.

Of course. Yeah.

People who are listening, Charles Spurgeon.

The Prince of Preachers.

The Prince of Preachers. He was like a British Philip Anthony Mitchell in 1880 and pastored a church, preached to 10,000 people. No, no microphone, no nothing. Gout, wife bedridden his whole life, severe bouts of depression.

Yeah.

Bro, know he would travel? I didn't know this until— he would travel to a home in France and stay in France for 3 months out of the year and pray and fast and just fill up and then come back and preach for the rest of the 9 months. I didn't know that. 3 months.

I never knew that, bro.

3 months. And dude, what is so weird to me as a preacher is I'm reading this biography and I grokked it. Preachers hated him. They hated him. If you go look tonight, like, this is fun, like, do it on the plane or something, like, ask Grok or whatever AI, like, give me direct source quotes of public attacks of Charles Spurgeon, you know, direct source quotes. They hated him. And bro, here's what they hated about him is he was called the vulgar preacher.

What was that?

Yeah. Well, in Britain back then, vulgar didn't mean like, oh, he uses inappropriate humor. it just meant he talks like a normal dude. He talks like a dude that swings a hammer or breaks his back throwing drywall or a farmer. And all the preachers in his day, they would come out of these seminaries and they would use this superlapsarianism and da, da, da, da. And preachers hated him because they said, this guy's vulgaring the pulpit. They hated him. And bro, he's got this fire quote. I'm going to butcher it. where he said he was responding to all these critics about how he preached so vulgar. And I'm going to quote you right now, and I hope you're okay with this. I saw you one time. I saw a clip of you where you said, ain't nobody's pipe game worth going to hell over. Now wait, listen, I'm about to honor you.

What I said— Yeah, man.

Listen, listen, come back to me. When you said that, I thought of this Spurgeon quote. And here's what he said. He was responding to all these guys talking about he's vulgar. And he said, I think we've had enough polite preachers.

Hmm.

He said, these polite preachers can reach these polite people. And he said, you know who I'm for? I'm for the men from the highways and the byways. I'm for the men from the fields and the factories. And he said, if I am vulgar, let me be vulgar. These men belong to me.

I never knew that, man. I never knew that.

So like, dude, I honestly, it may, you know, it's that thing. It's like sometimes, sometimes you end up complaining about the things you used to pray for.

Oh man.

I hope the opposite happens to you. And I hope you receive this. I hope God never answers that prayer.

I appreciate that, man.

Because that, like, I just wanna speak that over you. You're calling a generation of people who would never listen to me. And they listen. I'm going to name some names. There are honorable men who are better men than me and better preachers than me. You're reaching dudes that they're not going to listen to Charles Stanley. I love— I listen to Charles Stanley every 3 weeks. You bet. You know who you're for? Philip Anthony Mitchell. He's for that man from the highways and the byways. He's for that man from Rikers. He's for that man from Queens. I hope the Lord never answers that prayer. Because that's who God put you on this planet to draw to him.

Man, I appreciate that, man.

I mean that, man.

I appreciate that. That's very encouraging, man.

So let me go back to something real quick.

Yeah, man.

So you spent a couple minutes in a seminary or whatever, but dude, when I'm listening to you, you're like, oh, I don't have a seminary education. But I can tell, game respects game.

Yeah.

I can tell when you're preaching, you have a settled theological system from which you are preaching.

Yeah.

So who are the influences? Where did that come from?

Man, uh, man, first, thank you for your kind words, man. That, man, that was very encouraging. I love Charles Spurgeon. I never, I never knew that part of his testimony.

Oh, he was viciously, viciously attacked.

I never knew that, man.

Vicious. Most people think that's why he died. He died early in his 50s.

Yeah.

Do you know the story about the fire thing?

No.

So he— we're getting out. This is— these are fun tangents. He, uh, he struggled with severe depression his whole life.

Yeah.

It all started when he was preaching. I think it was called the Surrey Hall Gardens or something like that. It was the largest group he'd ever preached to.

Yeah.

And people who hated his ministry— by the way, what I'm about to say, people do it online to preachers now. What I'm about to say they did in person back then, they do it online now— is some people who hated his ministry walked in, and as soon as he started preaching to this packed room, they started yelling, fire, fire, fire! And the whole room thought the place was on fire. caused a human stampede, killed 7 people.

Wow.

So Charles Spurgeon is literally in the pulpit watching people who came to hear him preach get trampled to death.

Yeah.

His biographers say he was never the same after that. There were moments that he didn't just have depression, had severe anxiety. There are stories of, if I'm going to get this right, of elders and men around him, he had so much anxiety before preaching that they would have to almost drag him out to the pulpit. it. And that was the time when he started taking 3 months off a year so that he could be filled. But it's like, in some ways, I look at your ministry, I'm like, that's the Charles Spurgeon of 2026 in America. The vulgar ones belong to me, man.

Man, thank you for sharing that, man. I'm gonna, I'm gonna own that in my prayer time, man.

Yeah.

Um, that's very encouraging. I never knew that.

So wait, that dovetailed. So, you know, theological— I'm— I can tell you're preaching from a theological system. You got a settled conviction.

I do. Um, I do. I am, um, I have attended churches that were very, uh, let's just say, um, very Spirit-filled.

Yeah.

And I've attended churches that were very serious about biblical exegesis, and both of them had an impact on my life. And I feel like I am a product of both streams, uh, in Right? And so for me, I want to preach and lead and try my best to be sensitive to God's Spirit. But at the same time, I love theology and I love the scriptures. And there is something in me that wants to do my absolute best to properly exegete God's word without eisegeting texts and butchering texts. That doesn't mean I get it right all the time, but I try my best to.

Before you continue, let me explain what he just said. What he says is really important. Exegete is, I'm going to start with the text and draw the meaning out of the text. Eisegete, eis is a Greek prefix that means essentially into. And he's saying, what I don't want to do is start with what I want to preach and then go find it in the text.

Sorry.

Sorry. Sorry.

No, no, no. That's perfect, man. And so for me, I think for me, I have such a, how can I say, such a high view of scripture. Um, that I want to do my best to be an echo of what God has said and not put things in there that's not there and not take things out of it. Um, and so I, I work very hard in my study, you know. I work very hard in my study even though I don't have a seminary degree. I work very hard in my study. I'm going to— I want to look at cultural context. I want to look at theological context. I want to look at the background. I want to understand the people involved in every text. I want to understand it to the best of my ability. And, um, and, uh, and I want to do my best to honor God's word to the best of my ability. And, uh, and I have leanings that, uh, I mean, somebody can call them conservative, um, but I have very strong— I guess we can say, I can't think of a better word— very strong conservative leanings. Um, I think if anybody listened to me, that's not a secret.

And, um, but for me, it's more so of I have a high view of scripture and I just want to honor it when I proclaim So, I'm gonna work very hard and study. I'm gonna work very hard at understanding the text, the individuals in the text, what it meant to the original audience from the original author in that time. That's right. That's right. Understand that first, and then try to build a bridge to ours— our current time without butchering what the original author meant. And so, those things mean something to me. And I'm a nerd on the low.

Yeah.

I'm an undercover nerd.

Same.

What I say by that, okay, so you can understand where I'm going.

Yeah.

So what I mean by that is, uh, bro, I love all things theology.

Yeah.

I love all things archaeology.

Mm-hmm.

Right? I love cultural things. I love anthropology, sociology. Um, I love all that stuff. And so, um, these are things, man, that I'm digging through during the week. And, and, uh, to be honest, if I wasn't proclaiming God's word, I would love to be somewhere lecturing. and just teaching, man, because I love those things. Um, and sometimes I feel like I have to tone down my preaching a little bit, uh, from some of the, the heavy stuff that I'm digging out from a text, man. But I just, I love all things theology and archaeology, and I want to study deep and I want to read deep.

You got go-to guys that you like to like, dude, I like, I like that con— I like listening to that guy. I got— I like that commentary. That's my—

Yeah, maybe. So commentaries, Um, man, I use a, I use a software called Logos Bible Software. I love Logos, man. And, uh, I have some go-tos. I forget their names off the top of my head, right? But Logos, definitely. And I'll tear up Logos, man. Um, and then in terms of speakers, I told you about Matt Chandler. And, uh, I like listening to Billy Graham. Yeah, I like listening to— yeah, I like listening to Billy Graham. I like listening to people who are dead You know, um, uh, and, uh, I think about some others. Uh, I like R.C. Sproul. Um, same. Yeah, I like R.C. I like him a whole lot. Um, it's crazy because, you know, R.C. and Billy, you know, they wouldn't have agreed. One is almost like Arminian and the other one is hardcore Calvinist.

And, bro, do you know this story?

Have you ever heard the story of when somebody asked him would he see Billy Graham in heaven? So far, so good, dude. Yeah, yeah, man. And then somebody asked R.C., R.C., when you get to heaven, do you think you'll see Billy Graham there? And, uh, he got quiet for like just a moment. And then he shocks everybody when he says, no, right? And you could just probably hear the, like, the room was about to split into an uproar. And he said, no, 'cause he'll be so, like, something like, he'll be so far.

He'll be so near the throne of God and I shall be so far.

And I said, yeah, something like that. And, uh, I just, that was, that's, that's so dope, man, that he did that, man.

Like, like, I love that moment.

It was like, let's say, like unity around essentials and grace in the non-essentials, man. And I thought that was so powerful, man.

But yeah. So I learned this when I deep dived that thing.

Yeah.

So he did that in Nashville.

Yeah.

He got it. Somebody once asked during the First Great Awakening, somebody asked George Whitefield the same question about John Wesley.

Wow.

And that was George Whitefield's response.

Wow.

And R.C. used the Whitefield.

Are you serious?

That's where that came from.

I did not know that.

First Great Awakening. I never knew that.

That's legit. Crazy, man.

Dude, let me go back to something you said.

Yeah.

So you said, if you've heard this quote before, I want them to hear it.

Yeah.

Bro, you said, hey man, I grew up in Spirit-filled churches influenced heavily by Word churches. Have you ever heard the R.T. Kendall quote about this?

No.

You know who R.T. Kendall is?

No.

Bro, you're going to love—

you need to find some R.T. Kendall.

R.T. Kendall?

R.T. Kendall. Okay.

So R.T. Kendall, for listeners, we're doing preacher nerd stuff. R.T. Kendall is the guy that followed Martyn Lloyd-Jones.

Oh, Martyn Lloyd-Jones.

He succeeded Martyn Lloyd-Jones in London. So he came after Martyn Lloyd-Jones.

Okay.

So R.T. Kendall starts out Reformed Presbyterian, has a radical encounter with the Spirit, totally changed him. And he's 91 now. He preached here recently. Ro, listen to this. You're going to love this. If somebody went, Josh Howerton, you get one quote that you get to see in your lifetime, this is what I would say. R.T. Kendall. There are word churches and there are Spirit churches. There has been a great divorce in the church between word and spirit. And like any divorce, some kids go with a mom and some kids go with a dad. Listen, listen, listen. Revival happens when you bring the two back together.

That's dumb. It's dumb.

I'm gonna send that to you.

Oh.

There are— I'm gonna read it one more time. It's that good.

Hey, get it to me one more time, bro.

There are word churches and there are spirit churches.

Yes.

There has been a great divorce in the church between word and spirit.

Gosh.

And like any divorce, some kids go with the mom and some kids go with the dad. Revival happens when you bring the two back together.

Wow.

Legend. So wait, hey, why do you only preach in black?

Man, you got it. Can you text me that quote when it's done? Yeah, text me that quote. Uh, after I had that encounter at Israel in December 2018, um, at that time I had started wearing black as an exercise in limiting decision fatigue in my dressing. I only been doing it for like 2 weeks. But after I had that encounter, I felt like when I was in Israel, a man died there in Israel, and God sent a new man back to the United States. And so for me, I kept the pattern of wearing black symbolically as a daily funeral, a death to culture and a death to myself. And so that's why I wear black. And so I haven't wore another color, man, in over 5 years.

Mm.

And so, um, it is, it is symbolic. Um, it is symbolic for me, and it's a reminder to me that I'm dead to 2 things. Uh, I gotta be dead to the world around me in terms of being led astray by the culture, but I gotta be dead to the things inside of me too that will be a landmine to destroy my life. So that's why I wear black, man. Yeah. Even, um, even in the summertime.

Amen.

Even right now.

I noticed your jacket. I was impressed, man.

Yeah.

I'm impressed. So there's not many books. And by the way, I didn't have you on because you're writing a book. I just wanted to talk to you. But there's not many books that I pre-decide the second that thing comes out, I'm reading it. I'm reading your book.

Man, I appreciate that, man.

So dude, this is, by the way, that's fire. That's a great— it's called Contend. You posted this on IG recently and it's a quote from this book. For listeners, Contend He's quoting Jude, which is one of the most savage verses in the New Testament. I think about this every time I preach.

Yeah.

Contend for the faith.

Yeah.

Once and for all delivered to the saints. But I didn't mean to ask, I don't plan to ask you this. What's the 60-second story of why you called it Contend?

Obviously it's born outta Jude chapter 1, and contend for the faith would've just been too long to put as a title. So I just took the strongest part of that word. I just took contend.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Strong.

Yeah. And you know, it's like, for me, that's the imperative of the text, you know? So I just went with the imperative.

Here's what you said about this. So you quote the verse, you said, beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. And then you said this, Policies that could eventually muzzle the scriptures, satanic delusions running rampant on social media, a growing hostility toward Christians globally, and time is running out.

Yeah.

Now is the hour to contend. So tease this out for me to whatever level you're comfortable. Why did you say policies that could eventually muzzle the scriptures, satanic delusions running rampant on social media, growing hostility towards Christianity?

About to stir up a little bit of trouble right here. Um, there is, uh, there are ideologies in certain political streams that if left unchecked, they will pass legislation and laws, I think, that would inadvertently muzzle the scriptures.

Already happening.

Right.

Yep.

It will get to the point where those who are faithful in gospel proclamation will be considered preaching things that will be hailed as hate speech.

Yes.

And illegal.

Canada.

Right. And they will threaten us to say, we'll remove your 501, we'll shut down your church if you preach this way. And what will eventually happen is that men will have to make a tough decision, either be faithful to proclamation or capitulate to that kind of pressure. And, um, we're not there yet, but we're headed there. And I think that is a very difficult situation and scenario for people who have fidelity to God's word to be in. And I'm watching that happen right now in real time in other countries, and I feel like it's encroaching on the West. So that's that. Delusions on social media, bro. Right now as I'm talking to you, uh, there are people on social media who claim the name of God, but they are heralding doctrines of demons, seducing spirits that are leading people astray in the name of God.

That's right.

Right? I see that there is an increase in spiritualism. That's really nothing more than syncretism. People merging crystals and mystics and psychic behavior and all these other things and mixing that in with the kingdom. And so there is a syncretism I see on social media amongst people who don't even know, unknowingly, they're being used by the enemy to lead people astray. And then those who are direct pawns of the devil who are willingly leading people astray. And these delusions are running rampant so bad, and I'm watching a generation being carried astray by these delusions, Josh. And the thing about it is that if we don't know the scriptures, we won't be able to determine that this is heresy packaged eloquently and is leading people astray. And these delusions are running rampant all over social media. We got influencers and leads in people who speak with authority the things of God who have never read the Bible.

That's right.

Right? And so I'm watching this happen to a generation, right? So that's the delusions running rampant on social media. And then the ideologies that are hostile towards Christianity, Josh. Oh man, Josh. Josh, there is another monotheism that is almost an antichrist monotheism. It is one of the fastest growing ideologies in the world, and there are fringes of that ideology that is radical and hostile towards Christianity. And we can—

Are you talking about Islam?

Yes.

I'm gonna go there in a second.

Okay.

You and me are—

Yes.

I am very— you and me say a lot of very similar things on this.

Yes.

You keep going.

Right. So I'm talking about radical Islam. And there are people who, for the sake of inclusion, think that we are doing people good by allowing that ideology to— can I use the word infiltrate and invade our political sphere?

Facts.

And our social sphere for the sake of, let's just be inclusive and be loving, at the expense of we will keep giving away seats seats in office, and we will keep giving away seats in various legislatures across the country until the day comes where that ideology has enough political power. How— Can we just be honest? Until that ideology has enough political power to introduce Sharia law in America, right? And then And come out from the camouflage.

I want to say, because there's some people who are going to listen to what you just said. Some of you are listening to what he just said and you're rolling your eyes and you're acting like, that guy, he's overreacting. That's overstating the case. I just gently want to say, I love you. You are wrong. We literally have 1,400 years of history. And if the same thing happens for 1,400 years, you are very naive to think that it won't happen this time. time?

You know, the people need to learn concerning the future from what has happened in the past. All right? And oftentimes the past is a good predictor of what's going to happen in the future. Right? We're talking about an ideology that has conquered the East, has conquered most of North Africa, and has conquered— let's say it's conquering, -ing— all of Europe. And now it's encroaching on our shores. Right? To talk like this, they will say we are closed-minded and we are hateful and we are bigoted. Yeah. At the expense of not contending and not taking a stand, not praying, um, our children and our grandchildren will suffer.

That's it.

Right? They will suffer the consequence of our complicit nature right now. If the church in America, in the West, does not wake up and realize the infiltration of what the enemy is doing through politics, through social media, right under our nose, to hijack from our country what I think an ideology that is incompatible with Western fundamentals and incompatible with Christianity. And you know what, Josh? They will hate me for talking like this, and they will hate you for talking like this until 10 years from now.

That's it.

15 years from now.

That's it.

They will be underneath the— what's a good word I want to use? They will be underneath the tyranny of that ideology, and then they will go on YouTube and search for my messages, and they will search for yours, but by that time it will be too late. Now is the hour to listen, right? And now is the hour to be awakened, and now is the hour to pray, and now is the hour to vote right, pray right, stand right, contend right, all the things to hold back that invasion as long as we could. And if we don't do that right now, I feel like we are gonna just invite the devil in. Man, let me tell you something, bro. When my friends and I were in Bible— when I was in college, I went to HBCU in North Carolina, and my roommates and I, we had pet snakes. I don't know why we did this, but we had pythons as pets, right?

As one does.

Yeah. Yo, now peep this, Josh. We had pythons as pets. And this one first python we had, she would sit in the cage, and the cage was big, and she only ate rats. And we would get rats, and I remember we would toss the rat in the cage. That python, Josh, would sit in the corner of the cage in the darkness. And that rat would just run around the cage. I watched times when that rat would even run on top of the python and off the python, thinking that the rat was safe. The rat would think to itself, I'm safe in here. Just running around, not knowing that there's something sitting in the corner that would destroy you, right? So I would watch this over and over and over. The rat is running around the cage, running on top of the snake, running around. And what this rat has in this moment is a false sense of safety. sense of security. And then that python would then stare at that rat, and at an opportune time, it would lunge at top speed, coil that rat up, and then squeeze the life out of that rat until it was dead, and then swallow that rat whole, right?

And this is what's happening with this ideology. It's like a, it's like a python sitting in the corner, right? It's just, it's just sitting there while we are running around acting like we have a false sense of security until the day comes when it lunges And then it wraps its grips around all of our systems, all of our policies, or it wraps its grip around everything and then chokes the life out of Christianity, chokes the life out of Western fundamentals, chokes the life out of everything until it's too late. And now we're in the grips of that python wishing we would've did something when we had the opportunity. And, and for as much as people are gonna push back against this one moment right here, John, I just, I just invite them to come back to this podcast 5 years from now, 10 years from now, if the Lord tarries, 20 years from now, and see, did God not raise up true voices to warn America that this is coming to your own detriment for the one who does not have ears to hear and eyes to see?

Bro, whenever you say stuff like that, I'm sure you get the same thing I get. I always get the, hey man, stay, you know, that, that ventures into the political realm or that ventures into the societal realm. Stay out of that stuff. And man, what I always say is the same thing. Hey man, if godly people won't contend, godless people will.

They will.

Your choice.

Your choice.

And dude, I just, whenever I say stuff like you just said, I get a lot of people, they think I'm an idiot. They think we're idiots. I had no names. I had the leaders of one of the more significant theological entities in America literally text me making fun of me. Uh, for saying stuff like that on a podcast one time. For— I'm gonna do something real quick. This is gonna take me like 2 minutes, and I wanna see what you think about it.

Before you do that, can I say one thing about that? They thought the same about Jesus and about the apostles and even about Jude. And unfortunately for many of the people that lived in the first century, those warnings fell on deaf ears. this, right? I just want to remind everybody who's watching your podcast right now, Josh, um, that Christianity is not a Western faith. It was not born in the United States, right? Christianity was born in the East, and now the East almost looks like a tomb when it comes to Christian influence, right? What happened to the Eastern Orthodox Church, Josh? You know, now I've been in church Turkey. I've walked through the Eastern Orthodox Church, the building— let's just say the building they used to house the Eastern Orthodox Church. I think about men like John Chrysostom and all those who stood in their time. Was the Holy Spirit— did the Holy Spirit fail? No. Did God fail? No. Is Jesus weak? No. What, what happened in the East? You know what happened in the East, Josh? Believers abandoned their first love, embraced false doctrine. They was alive on the outside but dead on the They were lukewarm.

All the cyclical patterns that Jesus warned about to those 7 churches in ancient Asia Minor, 5 of them to be specific. And then the warnings of the apostles and even men like Jude fell on deaf ears. And you know what happened? The generations that came behind them, they paid the price. And now when you travel through the East, there's almost very little semblance of a strong Christian presence there where the faith was founded.

That's it.

Right? And so I would say to my brothers and sisters, Like, you can, you can throw arrows at Josh Howerton, you could throw arrows at Philip Anthony Mitchell all you want. Yeah, you can do that. You can. I just invite them to travel to the East, come out of the United States and go back to the homeland, go back to the places where Christianity once had an ironclad grip, and ask yourself what happened here. And don't think for one second what happened in the East can't happen in the West.

That's right.

Right? And, and one day, one day will Um, where the same people who throw arrows now might just— their eyes just might open and they will, they will say, God, you know what, we were persecuting that person, but that was a real man of God that you had raised up. Just like those soldiers realized when that temple split, when that curtain split in the temple in that earthquake. I'm like, oh my God, we crucified the Son of God.

Mm-hmm.

So I just wanna encourage you, bro, um, for the heat that you take and for the heat that I'm gonna take for my stance. Um, if we suffer for Christ and for righteousness, for not being afraid to warn men of what's coming, then that's a price that I'm willing to pay. Worth it, right? I would, I would rather stand for Christ and warn men in love than remain complicit in silence, um, watching the systematic takeover of the West and nobody said nothing. I just can't do that, bro.

If people don't know, like, if you're listening, you don't know what he's talking I'm sure you've been there. To this day, if you go to the 7 churches that Jesus speaks to in Revelation 2 and 3, that was the center, center, the center of Christianity.

Yes.

And now what you're going to go when you visit every single site is you're going to hear a Muslim prayer call.

Yes. In Turkey.

In Turkey.

Yeah.

Every single one of them.

And, and you know what, Josh, when people go there, people go to Turkey and I've been there and they walk the ruins of those ancient 7 churches. churches. And one of the things I talk about in my book is that when I was there, I realized these ruins, these buildings are not the only thing that lay in ruins. The influence of Christianity also lay in ruins.

That's right. Yep.

In Turkey, a 98% Muslim nation.

That's right.

That was once ancient Asia Minor and a home base for ministry operation to the Apostle Paul. What happened there? What, like, like, I, if, if, you know, we could just pause right there, Like, can we just pause for a quick second? Ancient Asia Minor, the former home base for operations of ministries of the Apostle Paul, where Jesus sent 7 letters to 7 ancient churches, giving them— 5 of them warnings. And now that same place that was once a stronghold for Christianity, 98% Muslim. What happened there? What happened there? I'm gonna leave that a rhetorical question.

No contending.

Yeah.

A lack of contending.

Exactly.

Yeah. So let me do a little— I'm gonna do a little theological thing real quick. Yeah, let's do it. I want you to think about it. And then, because for people who are like, if you read Philip's book, you listen to him preach and you're rolling your eyes at him. So like, there's a theological thing here. So you, I think you definitely know this. So you go Old Testament, God gives the covenant to Abraham. Abraham has 2 sons. He has, obviously, you have Ishmael, you have Isaac. Okay. I'm going to trace a theological trail that people do not typically. Okay. He has Ishmael and he has Isaac. Okay. Well, now you got a problem because you have one covenant, but you got 2 boys. One covenant, 2 boys. The Bible tells us ahead of time, 5,000 years ago, that's going to result in conflict. Well, guess who the lineage is of those 2 boys?

Come on, Josh.

So what you have is you have Isaac, Isaac and the entire Jewish race. They all descend from Isaac.

Yep.

What Muslim— Muslims trace their lineage back to Ishmael. Ishmael, the Arabs. So you, to this day, 5,000 years later, you have one covenant and the descendants of 2 brothers in perpetual conflict.

Now— Fighting one another.

Fast forward to Jesus.

Yep.

In a verse that people typically do not— they don't apply it with their eyes on. Jesus makes a prophecy. He says, the day will come when those who will kill you will think they are offering service to God. Now let me, let me do this real quick.

Okay, bro.

So what most people in my generation have done is they've been like, hey man, the big problem in America is secularism and atheism. Well, Jesus just said that the final boss, like Bowser, Jesus said the final boss is not going to be atheism. It's going to be some form of religion that thinks when they kill Christians, they're offering service to God.

Josh, I got to jump in here, bro.

Go. I got— I'm going to keep going.

Yeah, bro. I just got to stick something in. You know, I was just meditating on that passage a few days ago when Jesus said the day will come when people will kill believers and think they're offering service to God. Can I just add one more thing right there? You know, there's a scene in the end of the Book of Revelation where there's innumerable amount of believers who arrive before the throne of God.

You're going where I was going. Go.

Okay. They arrive before the throne of God, and the scripture says about them, these are they who were beheaded for the witness of Christ. Now pause, right? If the scripture talks about in the end a one-world religion, one-world currency, like if all of these arrived in glory beheaded for the witness of Christ. What religious belief takes delight in decapitating the heads of people?

Only one.

There you go, right? There you go. And we are either men who are hating on people, or we are men who are well-informed trying to get other believers to be well-informed.

Bro, well, you got— you can go from there. You and me both know this.

Yep.

The Apostle Paul makes a prophecy, Galatians 1:8.

Yep.

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you another gospel, let him be damned.

Yes.

Fast forward to AD 600, dude named Muhammad walks in a cave and he walks out and he goes, man, this real weird thing happened.

He was terrified.

He originally thought it was a demon.

Yes, he was terrified.

Jinn. And he goes home, tells his wife, I think I saw a demon. And you know what she says? She goes, actually, I think that was probably an angel from heaven.

Yep.

So AD 600, Muhammad essentially goes, man, this real weird thing happened. I saw an angel from heaven who proclaimed to me another way to God. Well, what is that? That's a fulfillment of Galatians 1:8. An angel of light will appear. And so you got that. Now, dude, if you read— I think you probably do based on your theological system. If you read the end of Ezekiel as an eschatological prophecy, virtually all but one, if I understand it right, of the nations that are mentioned that gather— Every single one of them today is an Islamic nation with the exception of Russia.

Russia.

What's the fastest growing religion in Russia? Islam.

And China's also mentioned there, I believe.

Is it?

I believe so.

And then, bro, I got this from, bro, I don't know if you heard this before. I got this from John MacArthur. So dude, you know—

Shout out to J-Mac.

J-Mac, he's hugging Jesus.

Yeah, he's in glory right now.

So what you got is the Islamic, in their end times prophecy, they have the Mahdi.

Hold on, John. Josh. Oh my gosh, Josh.

Y'all may do it, you may wait.

Man, do you know everything the Quran describes about the Mahdi?

I'm getting ready to read it.

Everything the scripture describes about the Antichrist.

So I'm gonna read it.

Did you know that?

Yeah, I'm getting ready to read it.

All right, come on.

So here's what they say.

Come on.

Here's what— now, obviously in Islam, different— it's just like Christianity, different streams have different eschatological views, but all of these are prominent beliefs. Check this. They believe the Mahdi in Islamic end times prophecy will emerge as a charismatic messianic world leader during global crisis. He will take control of the world and destroy all who resist him. He will invade many nations. He will rule and reign for 7 years. He will broker a 7-year peace treaty with the Jews.

Israel.

Yep. He will conquer Israel and massacre the Jews. He will establish an Islamic one-world government headquartered in Jerusalem. He will establish Islam as the only religion. He will come on a white horse— hello, sound familiar?— with supernatural power, doing signs and wonders, and he will be assisted by a powerful prophet. Now listen, if that sounds familiar, that's because it is a precise description of the biblical Antichrist.

Yep, identical. Identical, right? And man, Josh, they can hate us if we want in this moment, but, um, I think it's hard— you'd be hard-pressed not to see the Quran and read the scriptures and not understand Um, that the biblical Antichrist is the man mentioned in the Quran. It very well could be. The one world religion I believe mentioned in the scriptures, I think will be Islam. The persecution of the saints, I think will come at the hand of Islam. And, uh, and this is why it's the fastest growing ideology right now in the world. Um, not to mention, I just think we need to— we need an awakening right now in the church, John.

Gosh.

I think now is the hour to be serious about the spread of the gospel, about winning souls, making disciples, teaching people the scriptures. We don't know how much time we have left. I think we're very close to the end. But everything you just described is truth. And there are voices that are talking about this, but there are a lot of voices that are not. And And we are watching this unfold right now in real time, man.

Well, bro, the weird thing, man, is, you know, when you talk about it, you get laughed at and eye-rolled.

For now.

For now.

For now.

For now. That's fact.

Yeah, for now.

So the other thing you said in that thing is you said, you were like, you said, hey, time is running out. Like, this is a theme in your preaching.

It is.

Walk me through biblically why you— that is a heavy theme for you. Time is running out.

Yeah, so, um, there's this clock right here on the screen, and, uh, I know just like you and I, when we get up to preach on Sunday mornings, you probably have a clock somewhere in the room. It counts backwards. You know, when that clock hits zero, your time on that platform is up. Um, from the time Christ ascended back to the Father, a clock was put on humanity. Why? Because he promised that he will return, right? And so because he promised he will return, um, every day that passes, we are just closer to that return. The scripture says we do not know the day nor the hour, but what we do know for a fact is that Jesus did say he will return at some time in the near future to establish his millennial kingdom here on Earth. And so, Josh, tomorrow when you and I get up tomorrow, by God's grace, we will be one day closer to the return of Christ. And then if we get up next week, we'll be one day closer to the return of Christ. If you and I live 5 years from now, we'll be 5 years to the return of Christ.

So just the simple, the simple psychology of the fact that Jesus said, I will return, from the time he made that promise about himself, a clock was set on humanity.

Mm-hmm.

And so for me, I'm saying that biblically, that time is running out. And when I say time is running out, I'm talking about the time we have between the church age that we live in right now and the return of Christ to establish that millennial kingdom. This is important to me me because I preach like a man running out of time. I pray like a man running out of time. I lead our staff like a man running out of time. I engage the unbeliever like a man running out of time because we literally do not know when that day will come. And so for me, I want to do everything I can to, to increase the number of virgins with oil.

Mm.

You see where I'm going with this, Josh?

Yeah.

I wanna do everything I can to increase the number of virgins with oil so that I could say I did my part to make sure a lot of people were not caught with their skirt up whenever that day comes. And so for me, this is not just like a Philip Anthony Mitchell thing. This is a biblical thing because Christ is going to return at an undisclosed time in the future. Every day that passed, we are closer to that time. Therefore, clock is running backwards. It will hit zero. time, for a lot of people, it would be too late. The person that they reject now will become their ultimate judge. And you know, in the end, Josh, death is the ultimate equalizer because there's a lot of people that may disagree with you and may disagree with me about some of the things we talked about on this podcast. But you know what? In death, we all will have perfect agreement around theology.

Mm-hmm.

When we all die, there will be no more disagreements about theology. Everybody would know that Christ was the Son of God, right? They will know that he is the ultimate authority. But by that time, for too many people, it would be too late. There, there will be no purgatory. There will be no pray people out of hell. There will be no, um, paying penance to get out.

No, no, no.

All that will be over. And at that point in time, everybody's fate will be sealed. And so I'm going to keep warning America and everywhere I travel around the world that time is running out. Um, that it would— here's my hope, Josh.

Amen.

It would— my words and my cries will shake as many people as possible out of apathy, out of lethargy, out of indifference, out of compromise, to get off the sideline and get into this war that we're in right now, to be faithful witnesses for Christ in every sphere of influence while it is still daylight.

And it's time for us to What are the things, like, biblically that you look at the world and you're like, that right there, that's a sign that we're near?

Okay. I'm from New York, right? And in New York, we get all 4 seasons. Like, I don't know if it really gets cold in Texas. I mean, does it get cold in Texas? It's Texas, right?

40s.

40s, okay. I'm from New York, and in the fall, the leaves start falling off the trees. tree. And when the leaves start falling off the tree in New York, we know a brutal winter is coming. So people in New York, they start preparing. They go buying boots and they start buying big jackets. We start gearing up for the fact that the winter's coming. We know snow is coming. We make sure we got our shovels. We prepare because we know snow is coming, right? In the same way, although Jesus said no man know the day nor the hour, um, I think there are certain things that are happening in the earth that to me they're like leaves falling off the tree. And I'll name just Just a few. Um, the rapid rise of Islam. Okay, that's number one. The talks of nations wanting to come together around currency. That's another one. The fact that I don't remember when was the last time I've been in a store and seen anybody pay cash for anything.

Yeah.

Right now, you either pull out plastic or you tap, right? The more we tap and the more we swipe, the more it makes it easier for one world currency.

Mm-hmm.

It's hard to have one world currency when you have paper. So the fact that you see society drifting away from paper, That to me is a sign that we're close to the end. There are talks right now about a 10-nation confederacy, right? So I think about things like that. There are talks right now in other nations trying to do what's called like an identity chip. There are nations right now talking about enforcing on their people—

Facts.

A chip for identity that would allow you to watch, buy, sell, and have commerce. And that without that identity chip, you will live like a nomad in society. There are talks about that right now as you are sitting, you and I sitting at this table, right? So when I think about things like that, things that are clearly written in scripture, things that are gonna unfold in the end times, eschatological scriptures that are in there, Josh, when I look at the news in the United States and when I look at the global headlines, to me, these are like leaves falling off the tree.

Mm-hmm.

The winter is coming.

Mm-hmm.

The question I have for the body of Christ is, are we prepared for the winter? And are we preparing people for what is coming? And, uh, and that's what I'm trying to do with my book. And that's what I'm trying to do with my voice. voice. The winter is coming, Josh. Are we preparing people for what is coming? And we could prepare more people if we would preach the Bible.

Mm.

We would exalt the person of Jesus Christ. We would do what you're doing right now, taking a stand for biblical truth, even if it offends people that don't understand what we're saying. All of this right here is preparing people for the winter. Talking about the rise of Islam and radical ideologies, all of this Josh, is preparing people for the winter, and people will scorn and they will mock until the snow starts falling and they're not prepared. This is the same thing that— this ain't new, bro. This is the same thing that happened when a man spent 100 years to build a ship on dry ground, who the scripture called a preacher of righteousness. I want to put myself in the text and believe every time they walked by him like, what are you building? We never seen no torrential Why are you preaching to us about righteousness? Scorn, mock, ridicule. Until the day he closed that ark door.

Mm.

And the first drop of rain hit them on their forehead. And then it rose to their kneecaps. And then it rose to their waists. And then it rose to their throat. And now they're probably banging on the door of the ark. Let us in, let us in. But by that time, Josh, it was too late.

Mm.

Right? And that's what's gonna happen again. As it was in the days of Noah, Jesus said, so shall it be in the end. Men are gonna be marrying and giving in marriage Let's interpret the text. In essence, people will be going about their daily life, not paying attention to the fact that you're so close to the end.

Mm-hmm.

Until the door shuts. And then people are banging, looking for Jesus, but it'll be too late. And the most dreadful thing people are gonna hear, many are gonna come to him in that day and say, Lord, Lord, did we not do podcasts in your name and did conferences in your name? And we did all these things in your name and wrote books in your name. We did all this stuff in your name. And he's gonna say the most dreadful words that any human being is ever gonna hear. Depart from me, you workers of iniquity. I never knew you. Like, people worried about the atheists, bro. Man, when I was in the world, I wasn't looking for God. Man, I am deeply concerned not only for the atheists, but I'm concerned for the people that's gonna sit in your services on Sunday in their mind with a false sense of security.

That's right.

Who thinking that they have a right relationship with God and they don't. They, they have no idea what's coming. They have no idea the tsunami of eschatological events that is coming. They're gonna die and stand before the Lord and think they're gonna get in, and they're gonna hear those dreadful words, bro. And I'm concerned about them. And so somebody gotta take a stand. Somebody gotta contend. Somebody gotta stand up and lift up their voice, even if it comes at the expense of persecution. persecution. Man, I just want to be one of those somebodies, bro. I just— I don't want to die judged. And, and you've read this because you're a man of the word, like Ezekiel, and said, I got all this blood on my hands because I was afraid to preach the truth of God's word, or I was afraid to have conversations like this and then stand before God with all that blood on my hands. I don't want that blood on my hands, bro. You know, the only blood I want on my hands is the one that came the cross, but not the one that comes from being a coward. I don't want that blood on my hands.

Yeah.

So dude, I think you've seen the same thing where it's like the more clear you get, the greater the opposition becomes. Something that we probably have in common is I did an episode of Live Free defending you from people falsely accusing you of ridiculous things.

I appreciate that, man.

ridiculous things. Uh, one thing, it's like, man, nothing's new. Ain't nothing new under the sun.

Yeah.

But how, how the nothing new manifests does, does get new.

Yeah.

And it's like, one weird thing that you and me both got to figure out how to navigate is the, the level of opposition. They can— like, bro, just, I don't know, talk to me. Like, how do, how do, how do, like, like, on it, how do we navigate?

To be honest with you, bro, um, being a target for public ridicule is new to me, right?

Same.

It's the last 3 years of my life. And, um, you know, I think I said earlier in our talk that I'm just a, I'm just a dude from the street that God saved that's just doing my best to steward what he's given me. But let me, let me tell you what the breaking point came for me. Um, in 2025, we had just moved into a new facility, and I was kind of upset about the sound. I didn't sleep the night before, and I got up to preach the first time on that platform, and I was telling a story about something that happened to me when I was a teenager in New York, and I did not frame the story right, and, uh, my words hurt a lot of people. And it seemed like half the country was trying to crucify me. And this unfolded during Holy Week. And the persecution against me and the warfare was so great, I left my family that weekend and I went and spent some time by myself. I was in a room alone, away from my family. I had a bottle of— a few jugs of water, a legal yellow pad, and a Bible.

And, uh, I was sitting on the floor, Josh, and, uh, it was like Thursday. And, uh, I just kept getting text messages all week, bro, we praying for you, we praying for you. And I knew it was getting bad. I hate that. Yeah, man, I hate those men. Let me just say something, like, bro, no, listen, people are trying to help.

Whenever my phone starts blowing up, stand strong, bro. Yeah, I know, bro. I love you. Thank you for praying for me. You just ruined my day.

You ruined my day.

I didn't know about anything.

I didn't know until you texted me. And my phone was blowing up, Josh. My phone was blowing up. And, uh, I got a call from my— like, people was telling me, like, you probably gonna have to put out a statement. You're gonna have to. It's bad. And, uh, I remember that Thursday I got a text from my daughters, and they texted me in a group text, and they said to me, they said, uh, they said, Father— that's what they call me— Father, uh, we know your heart. heart, and we know your character, and we love you. Mhm. And we can't wait to see you on Sunday. And that thing gave me the strength I need to get off the floor. And in that moment, I had this revelation that I've been holding on to as I deal with warfare. This unfolded during Holy Week, so this would be the same week in history where Jesus was rolling into Jerusalem on a donkey to the shouts of Hosanna, and by the end of that week, he was listening to people say, crucify him. So within the span of 7 days, he knew what it felt like to be loved by some and to be hated by others.

And I remember the beginning of that week, man, people loved P.A.M., and by the end of that week, man, people was calling for death, you know. And, uh, and I remember when I got that text from my daughters, I remember sitting on the floor, Josh, and I was crying. And I had this thought to myself. I said, Lord, this is what it must have felt like for you during this Holy Week.

Mm-hmm.

And I said, I, I, I said these words. I said, I don't know where this came from. I said, uh, I said, Lord, thank you. Thank you that, uh, in this painful moment, you, you counted me worthy to suffer the way that you suffered. And now I know what you felt like riding in on that donkey with branches hitting the floor, and what it must have felt like for you to hear people you loved say, crucify him. And I will always remember during this Holy Week, you allowed me to identify personally with your suffering. And then, Josh, all these scriptures started coming back to me. Blessed are you when men persecute you and revile you and say all manner of evil against you for my name's sake falsely. He said, Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven. And these kind of words of Jesus started flooding back to my soul, and I had to tattoo to my heart, from this day forward, this is the beginning and it won't be the end.

Mm-hmm.

Men will continue to persecute me at this level.

Sure.

And if I'm persecuted because I made a mistake, I will publicly apologize. But if I'm persecuted for righteousness' sake, I gotta say, Lord, thank you that you allowed me to suffer for the name.

That's right.

And that in the persecution of the ignorant and those who don't understand me, what they're actually doing is increasing my reward in heaven. And so I got to say that to myself every time I'm persecuted, from my own podcast to my own platform to every single thing that I do, man, is so heavily critiqued. Now I just got to— I got to pray for my enemies, and I got to just hold fast to the fact that what they're actually doing for me is increasing and my reward in heaven. And bro, if it was not for the words of Jesus, if it was not for that encounter with my daughters, man, I don't know how I would navigate what I'm dealing with right now, bro. Because it does hurt sometimes, bro. We're humans. It does hurt. But, um, man, the words of Christ give me solace. And listening to the voice of those who love me the most—

That's right.

Man, gives me solace. But you know how this goes. Sometimes it'd be the voices of those who hate you sometimes sound so loud. And it's brothers like you, who you and I was talking out there, and the pastor who I met in here just remind me that— you, what's his name?

Ed Newton and Matt.

And yeah, they remind me that there are more for me than are against me. And I gotta thank God for voices like that that just remind me there's fruit out there, man. And I'm thankful for that.

There was, you know, it's like, this is one of those things where it's like, unless, unless you've had that moment, you don't know what that moment's like.

Yeah.

So I think my— I think I can't remember what happened to me the first time that I got— I caught it in the teeth. I was in, uh, I woke up one— I was an international negative trending topic for like a couple hours. And, uh, I'll do my best to get through this story. And I take a long walk and I'm praying and I'm like, man, did I just— you know, because what goes through your head is, did I just ruin my ministry?

Yeah, exactly.

Like, it's never going to be the same. That's what gets in your head. And so I'm in a bad spot and I come home and I open the door from our garage to our house and my 3 kids are there. And as soon as I open the door, they yell, welcome home, Dad. And I walk in and Jana's there and all the candles on our dinner table are lit. And she did up everything real nice. And she made this meal that is my favorite meal that's real hard to make. And I'm looking around, I'm like, babe, what's going on? And she looks me right in the eyes and she quotes that verse you just said. She said, Jesus said, blessed are you when people persecute you, revile you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. And then she said, and he said, rejoice And be glad, for great is your reward in the kingdom of heaven. And then she said, so tonight we feast.

Wow. Thank God for a godly wife, man.

Bro.

How did you feel in that moment?

It was like my whole world flipped back right side up.

Wow, man.

And you know this. I can tell from talking to you and seeing some things online. Every man either marries a launch pad or a lid. And we married launch pads.

Definitely, man. Definitely, man. We married launch pads.

Steel in our spine.

Wow, man.

Not poison in our bones.

Can I ask you a question about that moment? Were you present in that moment emotionally when you sat down for that meal?

I just broke down in tears because it's really hard to describe the emotional reality when— it's weird. When your phone just starts and it's like, dude, and they're trying to bless you. Yeah, they are. They're trying to bless you. Stand strong, bro. Hey man, praying for you. Hey man, more for you than against you. And it just feels like a dark cloud over your head. But when I walked in the house like that, it was like that dark cloud broke open as a deluge of mercy. And dude, I'll say this, man. I've watched this in your ministry. At the end of when I get in a moment like that, I go to Psalm 86.

So do I, bro.

So you know that passage, a band of ruthless men seek my life, men without regard for you. And then he says something like this, I'll butcher it. He says, vindicate your servant.

Vindicate your servant and show me a sign of your favor so great that my enemies will be put to shame.

Dude, you know what I honestly think? I don't know how it happens in the spiritual realm. I honestly think when men like you get falsely accused, I honestly think it's one reason why your ministry blows up like it does. Because the Lord looks at the promise of Psalm 86 and he is like, you know what? Ruthless men seek Philip Anthony Mitchell's life. Men without regard for me. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to vindicate him to put his enemies to shame. And I honestly don't think you would have the anointing you had without those people. It's a crown of thorns on your head is what I feel like it is.

In Jesus' name.

And so, dude, there's a spiritual reality there that I don't get. But every time my ministry has done this thing, what happened right here before it did this was ruthless men sought my life.

Gosh, man. And you go to Psalm 86?

Every time.

Man, I run to Psalm 86 every time. Man, that's crazy, man. I love it so much. Man, look at God, man.

Look at God.

Man, thank you for that affirmation, brother. That means a lot.

Dude, let me—

you're the first person I ever heard say you run to Psalm 86, man. Psalm 86, bro.

I memorized it in college, and man, that thing has kept me—

has kept me through many nights That's the one.

That's the one.

Gosh.

Let me ask you just a couple other things.

Yeah.

So, you know what people will say about guys like you, or sometimes guys— I'm nowhere near to the platform yet, but they'll say, oh, celebrity pastor. You guys just wanna be a celebrity pastor. I'll just say this. I'll say something that Philip Anthony Mitchell can't say. What people don't know about a guy like that is when I walk back before this podcast to go say hey to him, shake his hand, hug him for the first time, I walk back there and what he's doing is he's— the room, is filled with the sound of Philip Anthony Mitchell in intercession asking for God's kiss of heaven on the podcast that's about to happen. Nobody sees that stuff. Nobody sees the story of— I met Bryce Crawford pretty recently. Nobody sees the story of you and Bryce speaking at a thing and Bryce looks across the room beforehand and who's over there praying over the room? Philip Anthony Mitchell. Nobody sees that stuff. I just want to say it publicly, The reason that you see things in the public spot for a guy like this man is because he's doing things in private that nobody will ever— he's paying a private price that results in a public anointing.

And what's really interesting to me, man, is you are the opposite of the celebrity pastor caricature. You're the opposite.

Yeah.

It's like, guy's back. He's not in a green room asking for the red Skittles only. He's back there And I'm sitting there just assaulting heaven for a blessing on what's about to happen. So you're basically breaking every rule that is the whole celebrity pastor caricature. This guy just gets up. How long did it take you to preach through Matthew?

3 years.

Wait, can I ask you something?

Yeah.

Why is that? What's the emotion you're feeling? What's pulling the tears?

You understand me? And I feel like there are a lot of people who don't, and it's a source of a lot of the persecution I go through. And it's not for me to boast about what people don't see. It's for others to talk about that on my behalf. And so I'm just thankful that you talk about that on my behalf.

Very honored.

That's what I'm feeling right now, man. That's what I'm feeling, you know. Uh, sometimes I think, Josh, if I could invite my enemies into my prayer room, they might think differently about me. But I'm not even sure if they would, you know? And, uh—

They wouldn't.

Yeah, I'm not even sure they would. And, uh, for all the talk about like celebrity passion, all that stuff, man, like, to be honest with you, bro, I don't see that stuff, you know what I mean? It's like I say this as God is my witness, I tell you no He could take my life if I lie. There is nothing about what I'm doing that's glory for me. It's just not there for me, bro.

Mm-hmm.

I feel like my ministry is more of a cross that I carry because I didn't want it, right? And traveling and preaching is a cross that I carry cuz I didn't want it, you know? And what I'm experiencing right now, I did not ask asked for, right? And so my platform and the warfare that has come with it for me is a cross that I carry. It's not, it's not glory, you know. It's not personal self-aggrandizement. It's not me trying to build a monument for myself. I, I'm— it's just not there. I'm not that kind of person, to be honest. I've said this on platforms before, and I would—

I actually would rather be alone with Christ in my prayer closet than on The people who know you best that I know, that's what they say about you.

I enjoy being alone with the Lord, and I'd rather be there than on a platform. And so me being on platforms or stages or conferences or wherever I am, it is a cross that I carry. That's why I wear 2 chains. You know what I'm saying? Like, I wear 2 crosses around my neck, a reminder that Christ carried one and a reminder that I carry one. You know? And so my whole ministry is a cross that I carry. And this is coming from a man that ran from ministry for 4 years, right? And this is coming from a man who has not asked for what he's stewarding right now, right? And so for me, it's a cross. It's not, it's not for glory. It's not for fame. It's not for a bag. Um, now that does not mean that God has not blessed me in the process and has not taken care of my family and has not put me in rooms with people I admire or rooms with brothers like you who I've watched them online and now we're sitting here together. brother. So God has definitely blessed me in the process, but I'm not in there for that, right?

It's not that for me. It, it is a cross for me, but it's not one of glory, right? And so that's not what ministry is for me, bro. It is for me a cross that I carry, especially when, you know, I don't, I don't know if, you know, we could talk about this, but I still struggle with a lot of insecurities, bro.

Yeah, same. You know, people do this thing, do you, where whatever grabs me in the lobby and they're hey man, I'm praying for you to stay humble.

Yeah, praying for you.

I, you know, honestly, I got to where I say the same thing. Hey man, thank you. Would you please pray for me to stay confident? That maybe that's my bigger struggle.

Yeah, me too, bro. Me too. Like that humble piece, my insecurities do that to me. My— sometimes, you know, I don't want to, you know, go into a dark place too bad, but sometimes still feeling unworthy does that to me. Um, I still struggle with fully really understanding God as a Father sometimes, you know, um, you know, and understanding his love as a son, you know. In my wiring, sometimes for many years, I saw God as like a boss and it's like a taskmaster. So I'm like, I want to be a good soldier. And sometimes I got to remind myself that he is my Father, you know, and that I'm a son before anything else. And so I still wrestle with some of this stuff. So for me, man, you know, like, man, my own brokenness will keep me on my my knees, you know. If anything, like, I love what you said, pray for my confidence, um, but pray for me to stay humble. I appreciate that, but my fallen nature is doing a good job of keeping me humble right now, bro. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's doing a bang-up job at keeping me low.

I just don't talk about it, man. Bro, I can't even tell how many times I walk off a platform on Sunday and feel like, dang it, I blew it, bro.

It's me.

I blew it, bro. Like, I missed this point. I could have said this different. Like, the amount of times I get to the bottom of stairs. And I talk about this in my book. I can't tell you the amount of times, bro, I get to the bottom of the stairs and I shake my head like, dang it, Philip, man, you messed that proclamation up. You could have did better. You missed that point. You were supposed to say this. You didn't package that right, man. That's for me, probably, bro.

I've never met somebody else— that's me for real, bro. I finished, uh, there has never been a time where I don't finish my first sermon Saturday night, get off the stage and think, I blew it, man, or I That's how I feel all the time. Dude, I heard— I can't remember, it may have been TD Jakes. I can't remember who said this. I heard somebody say one time that in every great preacher, what they feel is the agony between the message God put in their heart and the one that came out of their mouth.

I've never heard that before.

The agony between the message God did here during the week and what, to quote the Psalm, this poor lisping, stammering tongue.

Yes, man.

There's an agony between that. Yes.

I deal with that every week.

Every—

I, I have never finished this. Literally, I've never finished a sermon and thought that was a good sermon, man.

I deal with this every single week. I get to the bottom of the stairs and I'm like, dang it, Philip, you botched that. Yeah, you know, and then I gotta, I gotta— in between our gatherings and our services, I would go into a room and I'll kneel down in there and I'll put my face to the chair and I just start crying out to God, Lord, where I messed up, forgive me. Yeah, well, I didn't say this right, forgive me. Help me to do it better in the next gathering. Like, there is There is this, like, I liked what you just said. What was that word you used?

Agony.

Agony in between what I felt like I got in my prayer time and what actually came outta my mouth is like, sometimes they don't match.

They never, yep.

You know, and man, it's so, nah, man. So nah, it's not glory for me. It's not celebrity. No, it's none of that for me.

Do you have anxiety around preaching?

I do.

I have extreme anxiety around preaching.

I do, so do I. I do have a lot of anxiety about preaching. And a lot of it is rooted in my insecurities, But a lot of it is rooted in the pressure of, you know, am I going to be able to proclaim this right, what I feel like I got in my prayer time? You know, you can study, you can pray, you can get the outline right, but it's like, then can I get this out right? So I still deal with a lot of anxiety around my preaching. That's like I told you, before I preach, I kneel down in a chair and I gotta work that anxiety out of my heart at my chair. How do you do it, man? For me, I just gotta— I can't— it's hard for me, bro. It's—

you know what, when you get an answer, you got to Dude, I, I, um, we may edit this out later, but I, uh, uh, in 2009— this is public— in 2019, I had, uh, 8 months of very extreme, uh, anxiety attacks before and during preaching. And, uh, every 6 or 7 years it comes back. It's kind of if I go a little too hard, a little too long.

Wow.

And I'm, I'm— it's nowhere near like it was in 2019. 2019 was like a level 10, and this is like a level 3. But I'm having a little bit of that, you know, right now. And dude, it is, uh, it's a thing, bro.

You know, I deal with the same thing. I deal with the exact same thing. And for me, it'll come back like maybe every 2 years. What's this, 2026? Last year, 2025, I dealt with a full year of preaching anxiety. Yeah, for 12 straight months I was dealing with anxiety and preaching. And it was so bad, Josh, I've never even talked about this on a podcast, bro. So I mean, I don't know, I feel so ashamed even talking about this, but we could leave it and edit it out, whatever y'all want. to do. But it was so bad for me. I, I was watching, I was watching messages of me from 2024 and 2023 saying, where is that guy?

Mm-hmm.

Um, that was the guy before he was well known. That was the guy before he had so much warfare and persecution. That was the guy. And I'm saying, where is that guy? You know what I'm saying? So for a whole year, 2025, man, I had anxiety in my preaching. Like, I just don't feel the same, you know? And trying to get back, you know, some rhythm that I lost. I said, Lord, well, what is the rhythm for where I am right now? And I, I realized in retrospect it's like a cycle. Like every, every couple years it would just come back to me. I don't know if it's demonic.

Right.

I don't know what it is, but it would just come over me like a, like a, like a wave. It would just bellow over me. And man, I would be on the floor in my prayer room at home just wailing and crying out to God like, Lord, you know that prayer like when David prayed, restore to me.

Yeah.

You know, just, just that word restore.

Yeah.

And I would just pray, Lord, restore, restore, restore, restore. So man, I've never talked about that publicly, but I've dealt with the same thing, bro.

It's me, man.

I've dealt with that, bro.

What I think some of it is, is—

What is it, bro?

The rhythm that— I think some of it's spiritual. I think— I don't think people understand when we're preaching to people, they don't just bring themselves, they bring their demons. That's where the weariness comes from. We are like, bro, it's like the, the image that I always get when I'm preaching is I want to pick up that thing. I want to pick up that sword and choose violence.

Yeah. Me too, man.

The kingdom of God—

Suffered violence. That's it.

Yeah. Yeah. But the other thing, man, that I don't know if you— I'd be interested to see if this is true in your life. The 2 seasons I've had, there was 8 months in 2019, and this is level 3 right now, but both of them were attended by seasons where God just did this. And there's some of me that's like, my soul is trying to metabolize Yeah. Everything that— because like, dude, what's happened in your life is you've had 3 lifetimes worth of, for lack of a better term, promotion in 3 years. A man's soul was not necessarily designed to do that. And then, man, I don't care who you are, I don't care who you are, I don't care, I got pretty thick skin. It does something to the soul.

It does, man. It does, it does, it does. And it does something to your your family, especially when they're old enough to be on social media.

Yeah.

Like, I got kids, man. They can't go on YouTube without seeing something negative about their father.

Yeah.

They can't open a social media app without seeing something negative about their father, you know. And all that has happened in my life within 3 years, you know. And I was, I was content where I was, you know. And so, man, what you said is so profound because I think some of the anxiety I've experienced in my preaching, it was like in waves. And in 2025, is when, like, when God was, um, really, like, pouring out his favor, and he continues to, to this day, man, I was struggling the most in my preaching.

Yes.

You know, almost like it was easier for me when I was in obscurity.

Yeah.

You know, um, but, but what you said, man, I deal with that in bellows and waves, and I don't have an answer for that, but I know what it feels like, bro.

Mm-hmm.

You know, and when you get an answer, you tell me. But I still deal with that, man.

I, uh, my fear is that it might be a thorn in the flesh he gives a man to keep from becoming too elated at the surface. surpassing things. That's my— I don't want that to be the answer. I think that might be the answer.

Could be the answer, bro.

Let me finish. I just want to ask you 2 last things.

Yeah, let's do it, man.

Uh, so like a lot of people that like listen to this pod, uh, it's one of the things I love. It's like, to quote Charles Spurgeon earlier, it's vulgar. It's for the— it's a bunch of— yeah, it's a bunch of blue-collar dudes swinging hammers, driving trucks. It's, you know, it's like people who they've never done Team Jesus before, ever. Uh, you know, we have a fundamental listeners in the military and in correctional facilities and prisons. Oh, Jesus. And, uh, they look at guys like us and they think, man, I'm never going to have a story like that guy. Uh, God's never going to be able to use me like that. Uh, Philip Anthony Mitchell, that's great you say all that stuff, but hey dude, you know, that ain't gonna be me because you don't know what I did, man. What do you say to that guy?

I say to that guy, first I said to Yeah. I would say to that brother, I think how you feel is very normal, and I understand how you feel, and the way you feel does not say anything bad about you. I would say to that brother, amen, that you don't need a microphone and a platform to be useful to God. I would say to that brother that long before there was a Philip Anthony Mitchell that the world knew, long before there was a church, long before there was a 2819 I was trying to be faithful to Jesus when I was a school teacher. I was trying to be faithful to Jesus when I was a janitor. I was trying to be faithful to Jesus when I was unemployed. I was trying to be faithful to Jesus when I was just walking around in parks. And so I would say to that brother that your ministry is where you are. If it's behind bars, your ministry is there. If it's at the office, your ministry is there. If you're a blue-collar worker, your ministry is there. Your ministry is wherever you are. And your mistakes does not define you, right?

And you can choose when it comes to your story. You can either let the things that you have done be a coffin that buries you or be a classroom that teaches you. So my brother, if you're behind bars because of things that you've done, you can either bury yourself in a coffin or you can say it's a classroom that has taught me. And right where you are, I want to remind you the Apostle Paul has seen the back of bars, and Jesus's disciples have seen the back of bars, and I've seen the back of bars. And right where you are, you can be faithful to Jesus. Right where you are, you can pray. Where you are, you can lead people to Christ. Where you are, you can start a Bible study. Where you could be useful to the kingdom. I want to remind you that God needs his servants everywhere, not just on platforms. That's the smallest amount of God's servants, but the majority of God's servants are in the marketplace, and they're in the the street, and they're on college campuses, and they're in high school. They're everywhere outside the platform. And this is why he's called us to be a witness wherever he has planted us.

So you are useful, you are anointed, you are called, you are chosen, and your ministry is wherever God has your feet. That is your mission field.

Yeah.

I'm even talking to the stay-at-home mom whose husband walks out of the door and goes to the office. I'm Right as you're cleaning the dishes and mopping the floor, you could be praying for a gospel ministry to spread. You could be praying for churches to be planted. You could be praying for your children to know Jesus. You are useful right where you are. So to the stay-at-home mom, to the businessman, to the entrepreneur, to the multimillionaire, to the billionaire, wherever God has planted you, be a witness for Christ and be an agent wherever you are. Be fruitful.

Amen.

Fruitful wherever you are. God needs you to contend, and God needs you to be fruitful wherever he has planted you, in every circumstance. And in doing that, we will bring God glory.

I want to finish right there, man. Uh, I don't usually do this, but, uh, man, there's a— like, God's used you in my life, and, uh, you get— you're a few years ahead of me. Um, would you pray for me?

Yes, bro. Yeah, let's do that, bro.

Yeah, man.

Eternal God and ever-wise Father, I thank you, Lord, for the great honor and privilege you've given Josh and I of being called sons of the kingdom. Help us to never take that for granted. I thank you for your divine providence that allowed my brother and I to cross paths, first on social media and now right here in the studio where we have felt your presence over this time. Father, I pray for my brother, that you continue to deepen his intimacy with you. I pray for my brother that you would make him more sensitive to your Spirit than ever before. I pray you would strengthen him in his inner man with might by the power of the Holy Spirit. I pray you would comfort him, Lord, where he is hurting and bring healing where there is brokenness. I pray you would cause Josh to love the things that you love and to hate the things that you hate. I pray his preaching will be more ferocious and more bold than ever before. I pray he will count himself worthy to suffer for the name and that he will see his ultimate reward as the crown. As the crown he's gonna lay down at your feet for his faithful sacrifice in this life.

I pray when he feels alone, he will feel your presence, and when no one understands, he will feel your presence. I pray you'll give him the strength the wisdom, and the grace to lead this massive church that you have entrusted to him, all these souls.

Amen.

And I just pray, God, that you would take people out of his life who the devil has slipped in.

Mm.

And you bring into his life everyone who's needed, every mentor, every coach, every person that will help him make it to his finish line. I pray blessing and favor over my brother and over his marriage and over his church. children and over his church and over this podcast and over everything you've placed his hands to. Help us both to be faithful in the face of persecution, in valleys and on mountaintops, until you call us home. I ask this, Lord, in the mighty and the majestic and the matchless name of our soon-coming King, the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen and amen.

Amen.

And amen.

Thank you, my brother.

Man, thank you, bro. Yeah.