Transcript of Episode 582: How Constant Health Optimization Makes Us Less Happy and Healthy

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it. Before we dive into today's episode, I wanna thank our sponsor, Momentous. When your goal is healthspan, living better and longer, there are very few non-negotiables. One of them, quality. And when it comes to supplements designed for high performers, nobody does it better than Momentous. Momentus goes all in on NSF certification, which means every single batch is tested for heavy metals, harmful additives, and label accuracy. And that's why they're trusted by all 32 NFL teams and top collegiate sports dietitians across the country. Here's the thing, they don't sell every supplement under the sun because they believe in nailing the basics with rock solid consistency. And those basics are protein and creatine. Momentous sources CreaPure, the purest form of creatine monohydrate available, an absolute must for both men and women who want peak physical and cognitive performance. So if you're serious about leveling up, go to livemomentous.com and use code JENN for 20% off. Just act now. Start today. Jen for 20% off. livemomentous.com. Hi everybody. Welcome to another, I guess, quasi-solo episode of Habits and Hustle because I am joined by my, my very favorite foiler, foil, and the voice in your head.

Yes. Shani Suissa. Who I just kind of gab with for about 15, 20 minutes on these episodes and just kind of do a hot take of some kind. And so she's joining us again. But before we even get into the episode, I wanna make sure I tell you guys all this because I always forget. Please guys, if you have not subscribed to this podcast, either through any platform, I don't know, it could be Spotify, iTunes, it could be YouTube, I don't care. Please press the button. It makes a massive difference in the algorithm. And it really helps. And I've been extremely remiss to tell people this for what, 6 years? So, uh, it's true. Maybe we should, if you guys listen to this, it takes 2 seconds and I will greatly appreciate it. Uh, so with that being said, let's move on to the episode. Shawnee, thank you for being here.

Thank you so much for having me.

Mm-hmm. You're so welcome. Okay. I wanna talk to you about something that I think is, uh, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna say it and then you can tell me what your thoughts are. Okay.

Okay.

So this episode is gonna be about, do you think optimist, like optimizing is making us less happy?

So funny, 'cause I was just thinking about buying an Oura Ring and in my mind I know you sent that to me. Yeah. I was like, do I want to do that? 'Cause I, I honestly hate walking around with my phone.

Mm-hmm.

I'd much rather like leave it, but I wanna track my steps. But you know, I track my steps. Is that the gateway drug? They're tracking every single thing in the world. Hold on a second.

Why can't you track your steps on your watch? I guess then you're again, I don't have a watch. No, you can want, you can wear it. Like I track my steps on this, on my wa— on my Apple Watch. But this is the thing, right?

Yeah, but I don't have one. I don't buy an Apple Watch.

I like, listen, you know what? That's true. It's either one or a ring, whatever. Yeah. I guess it's the same thing. I guess this is my point, right? Like I, I'm, I'm a big optimizer, right? Like this whole podcast, my whole life is about like how to make you better, even 1% better, you know, in, in a year, right? Like how do we make our physical health better? How do we make our mental health better? How do we make our emotional, spiritual, everything health better? But I do think that it's becoming such an obsession in the world right now. Or maybe it's, I'm not sure actually if it's the world I'm in or if it's really just like really becoming the big, big trend of like outside of my own vortex. Because honestly, like when I watch things everywhere, I see people, everyone's wearing an Oura ring, everyone's wearing an Apple Watch, everyone is, you know, are doing these things, which I think is good to an extent, but where is the line of it taking over and controlling your life to a place where you are kind of optimizing everything and trying to hack everything to get a certain score where you're not having like the hap— like your happiness is now like not even being considered or you're like, you're just an, or your overall just, you know, just being is not being, everything is, is now like gamified to a place where it's stressful.

You know, I, I just think that there's like, you have to find the balance, like what's healthy optimization and what's, psychosis, what's gonna make you go crazy. And I feel like that's the, there's, there's a, it's hard to find. I mean, Brian Johnson or Johnson or Johnson, whatever.

Oh, that's a really good point.

I mean, he just got this whole autoimmune disease because of all of his optimization. Well, this is interesting.

Let's talk about it. That's a really good point. So Brian, uh, Brian Johnson spends what, $2 million a year?

Insane.

On his, like his longevity, his health. And now he just came down with this autoimmune disease. Now, you know, you could argue maybe he always had, uh, some, some of, maybe he had it, but it was, but it was He gave himself life. Okay. But he, I heard him in an interview saying that maybe, you know, of course he's gonna say this, but like maybe it would've been worse if it wasn't that him, him doing all these things. Or did all of these kooky extremes create it? Right? Like it's like the chicken or the egg. You don't know. But I will say this, and this is what I, I think that like, this is the thing I really believe is honestly, and I think this is like such a cliché, oh, everything in moderation, but No, the people I know who are honestly like the most healthy or live the longest don't really do any of this stuff.

Mm-hmm.

They like, kind of like they know how they sleep. They, you, you know when you wake up if you slept well or not. You looking at your Oura Ring or your Whoop or your phone or whatever thing you're using to, to tell you is like kind of like becoming like silly at this point, right? Like you need to know if it's, if your sleep score is 71 or 86, is it gonna, what is it gonna do? Is it, how's it gonna change? Your life.

So she's going to hurt your life.

Well, because now you're going to be like, oh, it's going to make you frantic and stressful. Like, what, what it— how does that number change what you do the next night? Oh, oh, I was only at a 60, so therefore maybe my room isn't dark enough. Maybe I should go sleep in the closet. Like, honestly, or like, oh, maybe my room isn't cold enough. Like, are you going to constantly just, you know, modify what, like, what your circumstances is? That's even more annoying, and it's more of a headache. And how do you live like that? Why are people who are like healthy wearing glucose monitors?

Hmm.

Like, it's one thing if you have diabetes, but if you don't have diabetes, why is everybody and their dog on a GLP-1 to lose weight? Now the baseline has become like, now if you lose weight naturally, it's kind of like, it's, it's become like, like it's become obsolete, right? You walk around, everyone's thin.

Yeah.

But, but they're skinny thin. They're not muscular. They're not maybe healthy. My point is, We, we have all of these mechanisms in place to, to seem optimized, but really probably in the inside. I mean, maybe we, we, we on the outside externally look optimized, but I would be curious to know how optimized are we really inside in our head, in our physicality, in all these things. If you're just skinny but you have no muscle on your body, well, that's not so great either. If you are sleeping, you know, Okay, but you're constantly thinking about your sleep. Well, that's not good for your mental health either.

Yeah.

Like, I feel like everyone is so, it's become so extreme and over the top because it's a trillion, multi-trillion dollar business and industry. And this has become what people are now, this is where the money is. And so the, where the money is, more products, more technology, more everything, more businesses are being based around how do we get you to spend and how are we gonna scare you to think that you need this to be healthier?

Yes. I think the big question through all of that is like, why are people optimizing so much if they're not also enjoying the life that they're optimizing for? So, you know, if your entire life is about just optimization, but you're not actually spending any of that time enjoying the, you know, the optimizing that you're doing, then it's like, what are you even optimizing for?

Well, I know I make a joke all the time. It's like, here I am working out, eating properly, getting my hair done, doing all these things. So I'm really fit. And I'm doing all the things and then I stay home and watch like TV and like eat like by myself.

Right.

Alone.

Right.

So like, and I think that's become like the, the funny joke even on social media, all these memes, you know, I'm working out, crushing it, getting super fit to stay home alone to watch Netflix. Right. Like literally that is literally what's gone on.

Right.

I think it's like— No one's, no one like, it's like no one's even enjoying, there's no one, no one's like socializing because, because A big piece of it is because it's going to disrupt their routine of being healthy. I was about to say 100%.

Because then you're going out to eat, maybe you're having a drink, maybe you're doing this.

Or you wanna go to the gym in the morning. Right.

Right.

So like, where is the healthy balance? So you're not gonna go with your friends to dinner because you don't wanna eat that food. So then you'll stay home. You're not gonna go out because you wanna wake up early so you can get to the gym. You're not going to eat that piece of cake for your husband's birthday, your child's birthday. Why? Because then your glucose will, will, will spike. And everything is like now because you're scared of not being optimized.

Yes. And it's also, you know, I saw, don't quote me on this, but I did see a study on Instagram, you know, the notorious academic journal that we love to read from. And, and on Instagram academia, it said that, you know, You know, studies showed that people who were just told that their sleep scores were lower felt that their sleep was worse and were significantly more tired than people who were told that their sleep scores were higher.

100%.

And I strongly believe that because I know people who are just absolutely psychotic about their sleep scores. And to me, I'm thinking like, listen, sometimes I get a good night's sleep, sometimes I don't. I don't like, whatever. Like next day comes, next day goes, you know? Like, so I slept freaking true.

Okay.

If I just tell myself I slept fine, like I slept fine. Like I'm good. I'm awake. I'm here.

I'm ready to go.

What do we gotta do? You know what I mean? Just keep it moving.

You know what I really miss? I miss the '90s. I always say this. I miss living in the '90s and the early 2000s when life was normal. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I didn't wear the— I didn't have an Oura ring or a watch. I just like did my thing. And if you're right, if I slept well, I slept well. If I didn't, well, the next night I'll sleep better. You know, I like—

Everybody's house was perfectly aesthetic for Instagram with everything decanted.

Right. I wasn't scrolling, doom scrolling, like watching strangers who I'll never know, you know, talk about whatever is trending right now or try to like capture the algorithm in a video that I won't even remember it like in 3 seconds from then. Like, how many people here remember any reel that they saw 5 minutes ago?

Oh, I have such a good memory for reels.

Oh, I remember zero.

I remember so many reels.

I remember—

It's alarming, actually.

But, you know, I'm going to tell you this. If there are funny, that's one thing. But I think most of them are not. And also what I miss in the 2000s is socializing and human connection. You know, if I call somebody, they're freaked out. Like, oh my God. Like, this is what happens, right?

You're such a phone person though. You're such a phone person. Jen's a great, like, hour-long phone call type of person.

No, I'm a phone person. 'Cause by the way, calling someone is how you connect to somebody. I don't give a shit.

It's so easier. You know how hard it is to talk on text?

By the way, you have to Stop what you're doing, text the person. The conversation is so— I stopped answering people.

I stopped answering everybody. I don't answer. I just can't. It's annoying me.

So you know what I am? I'm the person that if I text you and you respond, I will call you.

Yeah, I love that. I love that.

I will do that. And by the way, I get shit for that all the time. And what is my biggest pet peeve is when I call the person and they don't answer. I'm like, bitch, I know you're there.

Hilarious.

You literally just texted me. I love that you call.

It's my favorite thing. One of the things that I can just, I know I can always just call you. Like, I love that. There's some people who just, you know, they're just weird on the phone. I'm like, just answer the fucking phone.

100%. Like, I'm telling you guys now, if you're my friend, if you have my phone number, if you want, if you have to ask a question, please do me a favor. Just call me. All of my brand, all of my sponsors, all of my partnerships, like literally they probably think I'm a crazy person because most people like have to send the email and then like, you know, schedule a phone call and then go onto a Zoom.

No, it's too much. It drives me crazy. Just ask me the 2 questions, pick up the phone. We can go back and forth. For a second. Yeah. It's so much easier.

Just, but pick up the phone and this could be done in 2 seconds. Like what's, what is, what is it you need to know? What is it that, that you want? Yes, no, good, maybe, okay, let's move it. Like let's keep it going. Like, you know, keep it moving.

Yeah.

The amount of like time wasted because of all of this rigmarole of like having to text someone and then the DM and then scheduling, like anyway, the optimization, like By the way, calling people is actually optimizing your communications, which is hilarious. I was going to say, it is a great way to optimize your communication. The best optimization thing to do.

I was going to also say it is a really important topic, but I also think because you're so in the midst of everything, it's like it's all-consuming for your world right now. Like, I don't think the whole world is on GLP-1s. However, I think— I think a lot of hours— no, I think a lot of people— I think people in Kansas, like lots of people in Kansas, you know what?

I'm going to tell you something, Shawnee.

Yes.

And I'm going to tell you why. Because it's become commoditized. You can now get a GLP-1, you can get like a trizeptide or— but we're in LA for like $30.

But we're in LA. You know how quickly people buy into this kind of stuff?

It's not just LA.

But it's LA, it's Miami, it's New York. It's places where these things get bought into faster. I don't know that it's really touched like all of middle America.

This is what I will say. You know, how about this? This is what I will say. I think if anyone has expendable income, even a little bit, they, they are, they are on it or considering it, right?

Right, right.

Okay, that's fair. Okay, so I'm not saying people who don't have money to buy dinner or lunch for their children are on it, but more affluent city dwellers, I would say, yes. Okay, so more affluent city dwellers, for sure.

Fine.

I would also say, no, say though that it's becoming very, very cheap to be on one because they're they're making it now. Like, you can, you can buy like a cup of coffee and then you can also buy your trisepatide or your retatrutide or your—

Trust it all.

So people don't give a shit.

That's the thing is like, I never, you know, I never got the COVID vaccine. I, I just like, I—

That's a whole other thing. But I don't even do that.

But I, but I also have not done the GLPs either. And like, I, you know, I gained a lot of weight this year and so then I had to lose a lot of weight and everybody was telling me to get on them. But I just literally was like, I feel like I have so many problems and I prefer to put like other bad things in me that like I would rather, like I'd rather have a Coke Zero than put in some random shot because that's like, you know, you give and take, like you have to, you know, for the Coke Zero chemical, I give up the potential risk of like a, you know, something going wrong over here.

You know what's hilarious to me? 100%. I was like, people will shun you for drinking a Diet Coke, but you can, you can like, You could basically shoot yourself.

But they buy peptides from the web. Like, what the heck?

You could shoot yourself with 97 peptides from China that you have no idea what's in.

Yeah, they have no idea what's in that.

And that's okay.

They just have no idea.

Because all people care about is being skinny.

Right, right.

But yet they can, they can stand on their soapbox and be like, oh my God, you actually had a Diet Coke? I cannot believe you.

By the way, wanting to be skinny is actually why I like Coke Zero. Otherwise I'd go for regular Coke. But it's hilarious. So we each have our vices. Like, you guys get Ozempi and I get my Coke Zero.

Exactly. It's like a bunch of everything is like, this world is so ass backwards. It is unbelievable. And like, I just find it to be just like I said, with all this, people are more miserable than ever, which we're gonna talk about in the next episode.

Well, okay. Because I wanna add one quote, the working to live slash living to work. It's the same premise, right? Mm-hmm. So many people are so caught up making money. So many people are so caught up optimizing their health. We're all caught up. Everybody's caught up doing all these things to better their life, but they're not actually enjoying the better life that they're trying to better, right?

I, I, I, I really, I really, really believe that to be true.

I agree with you. It's a real big thing. It also is why, like, you know, growing up, I always wanted to be a billionaire, which is great. Fine. I still do in theory, but I also don't want to have to go about my life in the way that a lot of people who have become billionaires have gone about their life. I don't want to sacrifice living. That's crazy. I don't want to end up with so much money and no memories. Like, I just don't want that. I don't want to end up with, you know, the hottest body and the hottest face in the world, but like, no happiness, no memories, no joy, no stories. You know, it's just a lot. Like this nose job. Now I can't really breathe well, which is fine. Fair play. Like, I look a little bit better, but like, I look a little bit better. I don't look like a million times better. I'm not like, oh my God, she's Gisele out of nowhere. Like, I don't know. Now I can't breathe. Now playing tennis is harder. Now working out is harder. Now partying is harder. Everything's harder. Right.

I love that you said, can I, I think, is it worth it? I really love that you said this because I think that's like a really, like, there's always a cost.

Always.

To everything. You know, there's always a pro and a con to everything. So like, that's really interesting because I wanna talk about that in the next episode. So let's hold that. Okay. You guys, that was, that's the rant for today. Um, let's, let me, let, let us know your comments. Do you really think that we're, we're getting optimized to the place of being completely out of touch, unhappy? Or do you think it's a good thing? Let me know in the comments. Please subscribe. And always, always thank you for, uh, listening, and we'll see you again soon. Bye-bye.