Transcript of Episode 581: Dr. Joey Munoz: Nutrition Myths, Muscle Loss, and Sustainable Fat Loss

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

Welcome to Habits and Hustle, where I sit down with the world's biggest thinkers, entrepreneurs, and experts to uncover the habits and strategies that actually move the needle in your health, happiness, and success. And today I'm sitting down with Dr. Joey Muniz, who is a nutrition expert and full-time coach who helps people lose fat, build muscle, and create sustainable habits. Without falling for every new diet, supplement, or wellness trend. He has a PhD in nutrition and has built his work around evidence-based fitness and practical behavioral change and cutting through all the misinformation that keeps people confused. In this episode, we get into all of it. Why intermittent fasting may be overrated, understanding GLP-1 medications before you take them, and why focusing on the number on the scale can actually create bigger problems later. We talk about all of it and how trying to find the perfect diet can actually turn healthy habits into an unhealthy obsession. This conversation will make you rethink weight loss, nutrition, supplements, strength training, and the fitness rules you have been told you need to follow. What Dr. Muniz shares in this episode will really stop you from majoring in the minors, in what I call anyway, building habits that can maintain you for your life and preserve muscle as you age.

So let's dive in and please guys, don't forget if you have not subscribed, please press that button, subscribe and enjoy the episode. All right. Welcome to another episode of Habits and Hustle where I'm joined with Dr. Joey Muñoz.

Perfect.

I said it right?

Yes.

Okay, good, good, good. Okay. Um, and he is— he's, he's, he's up my alley, and I'm— he'll hopefully— he'll be up your alley too. He has a PhD in nutrition, so we're gonna— I guess you can guess what we're going to be talking about today: health, fitness, wellness, and all the best practices around that. Um, he's actually— you are a full-time coach, right?

Yes.

Right. And what I love about you, he focuses on evidence-based fat loss, muscle building, Sustainable Habits, which I love, and Cutting Through Nutrition Misinformation, which by the way, and all these, you know, chasing trends nonsense, which I'm very, I'm very against as well. So.

I know.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you for having me. I was just listening to your episode where you were talking about how do you know who to trust or who to listen to?

Yeah.

And I resonated with everything you said on there.

Really? Thank you. Well, because I think it's become like, it is the wild, wild west out there.

Yeah.

And now everybody and their dog has an opinion and the problem The problem is if you have a following, people like will listen as it's gospel and think it's gospel. And what's happening is people are just like pushing every— pushing affiliate codes all day, all night. And you know, if someone doesn't know and doesn't have the wherewithal, they are falling victim to this, which is a really big problem. Discernment is something that needs to be activated, in my opinion, right away.

It's hard. It's hard for somebody who doesn't have an educational background to be able to discern sometimes.

Yeah.

Because you mentioned this in your episode, some of the people that are spewing the most horrendous advice sound the most convincing as well.

Yes, they sound the most convincing. Yeah. Because they have like, they have the gift of the gab. They have the rhetoric, they have the right verbiage.

Yeah.

And so just because you're good in sales doesn't, and speaking doesn't necessarily mean you're speaking with the most valid information. Yeah. Did you see this whole thing that went, I feel like it went viral like the last few days.

So this might be, bananas.

Yeah. The bananas. Yeah. Did you see this? Was it Rhonda Patrick? Yeah. Because I heard Dr. Rhonda Patrick said this whole thing on Mel Robbins' podcast about like, if just for those, I'm just kind of, uh, this is me just giving you guys some background that like there's polyphenols in the banana.

In the blueberries.

In the blueberries.

There's a polyphenol oxidase in the banana and it degrades the polyphenols, which are healthy compounds in blueberries. There is some truth to that. There's more nuance as well. I want to back up really quick because claims like that blow up all the time, and a lot of my content is explaining why those claims are not true. And the reason why I do that is because of my personal journey. I have gone through all the diets. Yeah, starting at a very young age. Yeah. So when I was probably like 11, 12 years old, I was really overweight as a young kid. So I'm a first-generation Cuban-American. And so my parents came from Cuba in the— my mom in the early '90s and coming from a country where they had nothing and then being in the States and having like ample access to food, the way they showed love was through food. Yeah, specifically my mom. So I've always been really active, always into sports. I grew up in the gym because my mom cared about working out. So did my dad, but I was very overweight as a young kid. And then my mom started putting me on all sorts of diets.

And I started going on YouTube and I was doing the fasting in the morning, taking a ton of caffeine and doing cardio and the keto diets and every fad under the sun I've tried. And every time I did a fad, like most people, it usually backfires. It works for a period of time, if at all, and then it's usually unsustainable. It's really restrictive. And so I would kind of be in this yo-yo dieting cycle for the vast majority of my teenage years and my early adulthood as well. And for me, education has been what has helped me cut through that noise. And it's why I'm so passionate about talking about that stuff on social media. And it gives me— there are ample topics to talk about because there's a lot of that, right? To keep it professional. But the claim was that if you mix bananas with blueberries in a smoothie, it ruins the health benefits of the blueberry. And that's not nuanced enough because So polyphenols are compounds in blueberries and not just in blueberries, in plant-based foods that have positive health impacts. So like anti-inflammatory effects, antioxidative benefits. And there's this thing called polyphenol oxidase, which oxidizes them, which essentially means they just don't work the same way.

But that reaction takes time. It's not like you make a smoothie and immediately it's all gone. It also takes time. And the other important point is that there are a ton of other very health-promoting compounds in blueberries and other fruits that you still get even if you mix it with banana.

Right, right.

My, my main issue, Jen, is I've, I've been at fault of this as well, is that social media has turned into just taking clips of stuff and taking it out of context as well.

That's exactly what happens. But what was taken out of context with that? Because if you— I did see the whole—

yeah, I didn't see the whole thing.

Oh, you didn't see it?

I saw the whole clip. The clip was incorrect.

Yeah, sure, the clip was incorrect. I did a thing with Gary Brecka, uh, many years ago on my podcast about a banana that Different, a different claim was made though. And I got torched, right? It's like, as if it's my fault. But he said a claim, or he was talking about how when you blend a banana, the banana's composition changes and so much sugar is being released. And it's basically saying the same, basically saying something similar, not that, but like basically don't put a banana in your smoothies.

I have also debunked that one.

Did you debunk the one on my show?

Could have been.

I think you probably did. Probably. Okay, so what was the reason with that? And then did— what happened? I think he kind of retracted it, right? I don't even remember. It was like 3 years ago.

I can't remember the specific claim, but it was something about like the sugar content just being way higher.

Way higher.

That was what it was. Which is also just not true because typically, okay, so when you blend something, it's kind of like predigested kind of.

Yeah.

But not really because like cells are really, really tiny. They're microscopic. And when you blend something, you're not bursting all the cells open. And digestion actually begins in the mouth. So saliva is what starts breaking down carbohydrates, this level of complexity, the main point I wanna make is I think one of the reasons why people feel really confused.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Tell us.

Because it's unnecessary. Like whether, let's say you blend a banana and it does spike your blood sugar a little bit more. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter for overall health, for nutritional value. Exactly. Not really. Like let's say it spikes it another 5 or 10%. It really does not matter in the grand scheme of things. I think we put too much emphasis and focus on these small things that don't move the needle.

Yeah, 100%. We're majoring in the minors.

Yeah, exactly.

Right? We're all majoring in the minors. Like, we're worrying about a banana, how it's broken down, versus the fact that we're like then going to have like, you know, In-N-Out Burger, right? And not exercising for 2 weeks at a time. You know, it's like this whole thing also, like Diet Coke, right? Like, I have a Diet Coke and people like lose their mind. Like, I'm like the Antichrist, right? Like, don't make— like, you're allowed to have a Diet Coke once in a while, people. Like, I feel like people are focusing on the wrong thing to kind of feel like either they have the control or like the wrong— like, to me, if you do the basics and major in the majors, you can do a lot of minor stuff. Does that make sense?

100%, right? What you just said is like everything I preach, right?

Like, I, I just think that— I, I also feel that when you, you try to be too perfect and too extreme That's what backfires.

That's another really great point. Sometimes people sacrifice their psychological health for physical health, and psychological health is equal— is equally as important, if not more important.

More important.

Yeah.

Like, the people— like, if you're like not going out and you're like staying home for every meal because you're nervous about every calorie that's going to be consumed, like, if you're— if you're not in like a bikini competition tomorrow, or like most people are not going to be, or like, you know, it's like I think there is something to be said for like actually living and being like happy and social and, you know, like having friends and going out and enjoying yourself. Like there has to be some of that too, because otherwise you're just like, you're, you're, what are you doing it for?

Yeah. One of the things I always like to say is that, and I see this often working with people who just start focusing on their health and start improving their health and they become so obsessive over it that it impacts their quality of life negatively.

Exactly.

And I also think, Jenn, like for people who are potentially getting started or have just recently started their health and fitness journey, for lack of a better term, you kind of have to go through those— some of those trials and tribulations to learn.

Right.

But my whole philosophy— yeah, exactly. My whole philosophy is that health and fitness should enrich your life, every aspect of it, right? Socially, health. And if you are doing things in a way where you stress out about having a friggin piece of cake at your kid's birthday party, like, is that really contributing to your health? I would argue it's not.

Not to your mental health.

Yeah.

But I think there's also— people do need— and like, you know, there has to be like, you need to put guard— some people need the guardrails to keep themselves, you know, intact. Right. Like, I think that once— a lot of times people don't like cheat days because then once, you know, the train has left the building, it's, it's, it's not great either.

Right.

So people do have to have Knowing who you are and like what kind of guardrails I would call it, like kind of parameters that you need to kind of keep on point. Important. But I just think as we keep on going, it's just becoming, everyone's becoming more and more extreme, more and more severe. Like to the point where it's like, what's enough is enough, right? Like people's routines are like, they're, they're now becoming prisoners in, in their own lives because they won't do anything 'cause they're so scared that their, their longevity protocol will be screwed up.

Yeah. And I think it, it depends on the person too, right? Because some people definitely take it to an extreme. What you were mentioning about guardrails, it's a really interesting topic. And this is why, like, even for people listening, there are general rules and then we break those rules depending on the individual, right? What I mean by that is some people do need to be stricter with their diet than other people, right? Some people do need to do things that may be quote unquote not sustainable long-term, at least for a period of time to certain, to develop certain habits. But my general perspective with nutrition and diet and fitness overall is if you can't see yourself doing it for the rest of your life, then it's probably not the right thing to be doing.

Right. You know, when I say to people like, what's the best ex— people say, what's the best exercise to do? The one that you're actually going to do is the best exercise to do.

And I will add a caveat there and say the type of exercise that will help you build muscle as well, because that's so important. You know, when you see somebody who's really fit, people who aren't as fit will say that person's really lucky. They can afford to eat a lot and they still stay pretty lean. Well, that person who's really fit has a lot of muscle on their body.

Mm-hmm.

And muscle in many ways is so beneficial for our metabolism. And people throw around the terms fast metabolism, slow metabolism. Most people don't even know what that means. But in general, your metabolism is how many calories you'll burn at rest. If you have more muscle, you burn more. So one of the things that I always try to do when I work with somebody is optimize for muscle mass first. I think one of the things that people struggle with too, Jen, is that they just focus too much on weight loss. And yes, losing weight is important depending on the person, right? If you have excess body fat, it's unhealthy and losing weight will be helpful. But we don't want to lose weight in a way where we sacrifice muscle mass.

Right.

And the funny thing is not, not funny, like objectively, if you spend 2, 3 years really focusing on building muscle mass, you have so much more flexibility with your diet because you can just afford to eat more food and maybe get away with foods that are a little bit less healthy on a more frequent basis. And it won't have the same impact.

Also, you can be focused focusing on fat loss, not weight loss.

Correct.

Right? Because weight loss can mean muscle, right?

Yes, exactly.

Which is becoming the problem with all these GLP-1s.

Correct.

Right? Correct. Now, the baseline, I mean, to me, that's where you really get yourself in trouble because when you do gain your weight back, right? You're going to gain more weight because now your muscle is usually depleted. What happens though, I have a question. If someone's taking a GLP-1, but they're also, doing weight training, like strength training? Does it counteract each other?

100%. So this is another really nuanced subject. One thing I want to say, 'cause I, when you were talking about your episode where you were talking about like who to trust and who not to trust, at least in the nutrition and fitness space, anybody who presents anything as just black and white, it's usually wrong. Like there's usually some gray in the middle, nuance with anything related to nutrition.

By the way, anything related to life. Nothing is ever— everything is nuanced. That's why you keep on saying the word nuance. It's like my favorite word because life is nuanced. Relationships are nuanced. Like business is nuanced.

God, that would be a great name for a podcast.

Nuance. Yeah.

And just having in-depth conversations. Anyways.

It's true though. Yeah. Because nothing is ever black and white.

No, no.

And when people start thinking black and white, they're getting themselves into a lot of trouble.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

Sorry, go ahead.

No, you're good. The GOPs, I like— I can go on tangents all day. Me too.

We're going to be here till tomorrow night then.

So interestingly, so if, if you take a GLP-1 and you lose weight rapidly and you're not strength training and you're not focusing on pro— protein and adequate nutrition, you lose a ton of muscle.

Mm-hmm.

The data do show though that the amount of muscle lost is no different than if you just crash dieted, didn't do any exercise, didn't focus on your diet. So the amount of muscle mass is actually pretty similar on a GLP-1 or not on a GLP-1 if you're not doing things correctly, meaning GLP-1s do not inherently exacerbate muscle loss. Now here's an interesting point though. You mentioned we need to focus on fat loss. One of the variables that determines whether you lose more fat or more lean mass, AKA muscle, is the rate of weight loss itself. Meaning if you lose weight really quickly, a bigger proportion of that will be muscle mass.

Mm-hmm. Why is that?

Because we can go in a, a couple different directions here. Essentially, there seems to be a rate limiting process with fat loss. You can only lose body fat at a certain rate, and then your body still needs energy if you're in a deficit and you losing weight quickly. So it pulls from lean mass, right? It's like, hey, I can get some energy from the body fat. I can get some energy from the lean mass. And so in general, slower weight loss tends to be more sustainable weight loss. Now we don't want to do it so slowly to where like you're not seeing any progress itself because the progress itself is motivating, but you want to lose weight at a rate where you're not starving yourself, right? You're not just crash dieting. Anyways, I bring this back to the GLP-1s because what happens on a GLP is that they are such potent appetite suppressants. That you naturally eat way less and you lose weight really quickly. So you might be exacerbating muscle loss because of that. But I mean, we work with a number of clients who are on GLPs and they want to transition off of them by focusing on the lifestyle stuff.

If you strength train, if you focus on proper nutrition, you'll have really great outcomes. When it comes to GLPs, it's like a lot of people like demonize them. And a lot of people like to say it's the, they're the best drugs in the world. Think the true answer lies somewhere in the middle. It's about evaluating the pros and cons for yourself. I have worked with clients who have struggled with food noise and obesity their whole life. And when they use the GLP-1s, they genuinely tell me it's the first time in their life that they can focus on healthier habits without having a ton of food noise. It's okay for that person, pretty helpful. But then there's people taking it to lose 5 or £10 of body fat. It's like, there are side effects. It's just not necessary. So I think it really depends on the person and the context.

So if someone's taking, 'cause like, let's talk to, to the people who are taking these GLP-1s to lose the 5 or £10. Sure. 'Cause that's, to me now, it's like the majority of people I know, like I can't throw a stone and not find somebody who's on a GLP-1, especially in LA.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

I was gonna say, it's because you're in LA.

I was gonna, is it just 'cause I'm in LA? 'Cause I mean, it's like everyone's skinny now. It's like, yeah, very strange. It's like a pseudo life and reality here. Does that mean everything is, is a pendulum gonna swing eventually? Because do people acclimate to it and do you have to continually increase the dosage? To keep being thin on there? And like, does your appetite come back slowly if you're not increasing the dosage? Like, what happens to people if they're just taking it for the 5 or £10? Do they gain it right back when they get off of it again?

Yeah. So super transparently, I don't know if your body acclimates to the impacts of it and whether higher doses are required over time to have the same appetite-suppressing effect. I don't know the answer to that question. That's a really good question. What I do know though, though, is that independent of whether it's for 5 or £10 or more weight loss, the data do show that when people stop taking the GLP-1, you go back to your previous habits, the hunger does come back and you start to gain weight.

Fast.

Yeah.

By the way, very fast. I have a girlfriend. Well, she's not a girlfriend. She's a friend of mine that I know. She lost like £50 on this thing. And I didn't even think she had £50 to lose, quite honestly. When she went off of it, not only did she gain the 50, she gained another 20.

Hmm.

And fast. It was like in a month. Yeah. It was fast.

Yeah. That's tough.

That's scary. That's tough.

Yeah.

Right. It's not like it just kind of like, you know, comes back like kind of slowly and after a year you're like, holy shit. It's like boom. So like what is scary to me and like all these peptides and all these other things is number one, what's really in these things? That's the first thing. Yeah. Secondly, like what is the ramification afterwards? Yeah. I know you don't know, I mean, we all, to be honest, I don't think anybody knows.

No, I think a lot of people extrapolate and just act like they know.

I don't really know. Exactly.

Yeah.

You can't know about something that hasn't been studied yet. You know what I mean? Exactly. It's like, how do you know yet? Everyone's, it's, we're in the, we're, it's in real time.

Exactly.

Exactly. You know, it's IRL. IRL. IRL. Exactly. In real life. So I think that it's, it's yet to be determined. Yeah. Do you remember Fen-Fen back when?

I don't. Oh, it sounds, how old are you? 32.

Oh my God, you're a baby. Okay. Fen-phen was a big deal when I was like 25. Like, I never took it.

Okay.

It was like a diet drug. Everybody was on it because everyone was losing weight so fast. Everyone thought it was like the panacea, kind of like this GLP-1. And then they realized it was like giving people heart attacks and heart murmurs. But like, it took them a while.

Yeah. Yeah.

And then they banned it from the— the problem, they banned it so people weren't able to get it anymore. But everyone was skinny walking around. But what I was going to say is I, I'm curious later on what's going to happen. Does that mean like in 10 years from now, like, because GLP-1s are on the market actually for diabetes and now they're saying, oh, they have inflammation and all these other things. I don't know if it's true or not.

Well, here's the— that's a really good point. A lot of the benefits are driven because of the weight loss, because body fat itself like negatively impacts your health. One of the main ways is that it really drives inflammation. So if somebody is significantly overweight or obese and they lose £50, yeah, their inflammation is going to go way down. Is it directly because of the GLP-1s? No, but indirectly, definitely, right? Like, my hope would be that 10 years pass and there are no negative impacts. Like, I don't wish anything negative on anybody, but the truth is, as you mentioned, we just don't know.

We don't know. Can I ask you a funny— not How has Ozempic or those GLP-1s affected the new, like, nutrition coaching, fitness coaching business? Has it kind of like, is everyone's numbers really down because everyone now is just like thin because they're doing that?

So interesting question. I think because of my message and what I talk about, many of our clients that come to us tell us they want coaching because they don't want to go on a GLP-1. So a lot of them are like, yeah, I want to learn how to do this naturally. I want to learn how to still improve my habits and strength train because I know it's important for longevity. Because I talk about that often.

Yeah, I'm just curious more of a macro level.

It definitely has impact.

We should ChatGPT and find out, right?

Well, I'll tell you anecdotally, people will tell me like, why should I do this or should I just take a GLP-1? I'm like, they're not the same thing, right?

Exactly.

A simple question: do you want to be on it forever? No.. And then aside—

you're not gonna get toned from it. Yeah. I'll tell you that much.

Well, even aside from the weight loss, like most people want to do what they want to be able to get on the floor and get up and play with their kids or their grandkids without pain. Of course. Like the GLP-1s are not gonna do that. You need to build muscle, you need to get stronger. Right.

So, right.

It's like the weight loss is just part of the equation.

Woody's K, let's, let's, let's like take, like take a pivot or a turn here.

Sure.

Because I could talk about this all day, the social aspect of the socialization aspect of the GLP-1s. Let's talk about like nutrition, 'cause that's your specialty. Mm-hmm. And the myths around it. Is intermittent fasting overrated?

Yes, it's overrated in the sense that it's positioned as a unique solution that has unique health benefits. And it doesn't when you compare it to just traditional caloric restriction. Like if you restrict your calories by just eating less, mm-hmm, or you intermittent fast and the food intake is the same, the fasting itself doesn't seem to have any unique health benefits in an intermittent fasting, um, protocol. That said, I think it's a really practical tool for a lot of people to keep the calories in check.

Yeah, but what do they— what about all this talk about autophagy when you're fasting and you're not eating for these— when you're eating these small windows, how your body, the senescent cells and the autophagy, isn't that real?

It is real, but I think this is an area, again, Jenna, and I don't want to position myself as like, I know everything, everybody else doesn't, because that's not true at all. The thing is, sometimes we take like an ounce of truth and we extrapolate.

Yep.

When it comes to intermittent fasting specifically, reducing food intake, reducing caloric intake does stimulate more autophagy, but the fasting itself does not seem to be the reason why it occurs. It's just the reduced food intake.

Got it.

So there are studies where they take two groups of individuals and they put them on the same caloric intake. One group is just able to eat normally throughout the day and the other group intermittent fasts. And they look at measures like autophagy and it's, it's pretty much the same across groups. So it's the reduction in food intake. From a practical perspective, if somebody has an easier time skipping a meal and it's just a simple rule they can follow and they're able to stick to it, then I'm all for it.

So I, I'm gonna use my own practical, my own experience. Okay. Because you, you won't remember this because you're 4 and a half years old, but it used to be what the bodybuilders—

just getting roasted over here.

Yeah. Not really. I wish I was 32. But like, I remember, and it still is the case for bodybuilders, it was 6 meals a day, like small, 6 small meals a day. And that's how people kind of, and they said, oh, if you do that, it revs your metabolism. It keeps your metabolism humming and going. And then of course, over time, evolution, everything changes. And it's like, no, you have to eat 2, you eat between the window, a 4-hour window or 6-hour window. And that's how you're gonna, whatever. I'd like to get your opinion on this. When I skip a meal, maybe because I'm not used to— when I skip breakfast, I'll just eat double the amount at lunch.

You're ravenous, right?

If I skip lunch, I'll eat double the amount at dinner.

Yeah.

So for me, if I eat throughout the day, I'm way— I'll keep— my calories will naturally just be lower because I'm not like ravenous.

Yep.

Now I do work out, so there's a difference to that too. So what is your take about revving your metabolism, eating 6 meals a day, small ones?

Yeah, number of meals does not impact metabolism at all. Here's—

here's— or how about just eating throughout the day versus fasting for 12-hour windows or whatever?

It also just really does not matter when it comes to meal frequency, how many times you eat in a day. The only thing that matters is consistency. So if we're talking about, first off, in the perspective of having a healthy body composition, okay, not having a ton of body fat, having a healthy body composition. What matters when it comes to meal frequency is regularity. For most people, whether you have 3 meals, 6 meals, 2 meals, it does not make a difference. I mention regularity because our bodies adapt, our hunger cues adapt to our normal eating schedule. So, if you skip breakfast, you're going to be really hungry for lunch. But if you skip breakfast for 2 weeks straight, your body will adapt to that.

Got it. So, right. So, you're saying maybe if I just If I had more willpower, just let it go for 2 or 3 days.

It's what's the point, right?

Like, yeah.

If you, if you're, if your schedule allows you to have 3 solid meals and you enjoy that, there is no benefit to cutting one out and there is no benefit to doubling it up to 6. Now, in terms of meal timing, what is extremely consistent in the research is breakfast consumption. It is associated with 2 things, better hunger regulation. Like if you have a big breakfast, you're less hungry throughout the day.

I don't know why, how people are skipping breakfast. I also find that this intermittent fasting works better on men than women. Yeah, yeah. Again, this is just my own personal, you know, polls.

Yeah.

And questions, you know, because men are— I don't know why that is. I just find like the guys I know who do it, it's working for them. Women, it's not working. Maybe it's hormonal, I don't know.

Yeah, I'm not sure. Um, I know there's also debate on that. I'm super straightforward, like based off the research, like it doesn't seem like there's a big difference, but also there is a lot of research missing in women, so who knows. With the breakfast thing, what I was going to say is like there's better hunger regulation. I think let's use common sense. If you have a big meal, you're going to be full for a period of time after that.

Yeah, it's common sense.

And so if you skip a meal and then your biggest meal is dinner, yeah, you're going to be full after dinner, but we go to sleep after dinner. So you're not taking advantage of having a big meal strategically earlier in the day. And then really interestingly is if you have a big breakfast, you actually burn more calories throughout the day naturally, probably just because you have more energy and you move more unconsciously.

100%. I think, again, I'm going to use myself as an example. If I don't eat breakfast and then I exercise, I'll never work out as hard. Yeah, I exercise, I get way— A, I'm not nauseous.

Yeah.

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Yeah. So from a health perspective, it's hard to beat a Mediterranean-style diet. Improvements in cardiovascular health, blood sugar regulation. My rules for the perfect diet are pretty simple. Like one, you need to have a diet that covers all your bases. We can't be deficient in micronutrients or macronutrients. I think pretty simply, just make sure you have a whole food-based diet. I think it's completely unnecessary to eliminate any particular food group. With all these different diet camps, it's like, don't eat vegetables because of anti-nutrients. That's a ridiculous statement. Like vegetables are super healthy for you. There'll be people that say, don't eat beans because of these other compounds. Don't eat oats because it's poverty food. That's a really common one, which is ridiculous.

That's a super common one.

Yeah. Eat whole foods. All whole foods have health-promoting impacts. Like, there are unique benefits of meat that you don't get in vegetables, and vegetables have unique benefits that you don't get in beans, and beans have unique benefits that you don't get in dairy. Like, have a wide array of whole foods unless you are sensitive or allergic to a particular food, which a lot of people are. So, whole foods, 5 to 7 servings of fruits and veggies to make sure you get your micronutrients in, 0.8 grams of protein per pound of ideal body weight. So I weigh around £220. I'd be consuming around 170 to 180 grams of protein. How tall are you? 6'4".

Yeah. You look really tall. Yeah.

Yeah. I am really tall.

Yeah. You, that's why you look really tall.

I would say those are, so, so one, making sure we're covering our bases, right? If you focus on whole foods, fiber, and protein, that's pretty solid right there. Then you need a diet that is tailored to your particular goals as well, because just because you eat healthy doesn't mean you're gonna make progress towards a particular goal. And unfortunately, if you are really overweight or you're obese, even if you have the healthiest diet, you're not healthy by definition, right? Because the body fat itself is bad for your health. So when I say tailored to your goals, that's where we talk about things like calories.

Okay.

There's also the argument of like, it's not calories, it's food choices, it's hormones. It's like, no, it's all of it.

It's all of it.

Like to say it's only one thing is ridiculous.

Well, what would you say? Okay, so what would you say is the best breakfast to have?

Good question. So a good breakfast is going to have a solid amount of protein. So for me personally, I like having about 4 whole eggs and some Greek yogurt. Eggs are extremely nutritionally dense, like great source of choline, pretty much great source of every micronutrient. So eggs are, if you want to call it a superfood, I don't like that word, but they definitely are a superfood. I love Greek yogurt because it's high protein. If you can't have dairy, then a plant-based protein would be fine. And then I always try to have at least 1 or 2 servings of fruits and veggies with my meals. With breakfast, I just like fruit. So I'll have like an apple or a banana or something like that. So I tend to have a smaller breakfast because I'm just not super hungry in the morning.

Right.

I'll have that. And I work out about an hour after that. And then when I get back from my workout, I have a protein shake and then a pretty big lunch. Like lunch is my biggest meal.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah. Me too. I love lunch. It's my— try to be my biggest meal too. Is there anything to be said for— because I eat the same food every single day. I'm like the most— more because I don't want to think about it. And if I like something, I just like it and I eat it constantly.

Simple.

Is that a bad thing though? Because I heard that your body obviously— well, not I heard, I know research has shown that your body does need to have variety. So it— is it actually a negative thing if you eat the same things over and over again?

No, as long as you have variety within what you're eating.

How? If I'm having salmon and green beans like 5 days a week, so you don't vary up the veggies at all?

It'll be just green beans and that's all you have?

For, for now. I mean, sometimes I have asparagus. Yeah. Sometimes I'll have a, like, you know, like, but I'm talking if I, I travel a lot and I do. Yeah. You know, have to switch it up. But I always say I'm like, right now I'm on a green bean kick for the next— Sure. Before I was on a Greek salad and a chicken kick. My point is I can eat the same thing for like a year. Sure. Before I get sick of it.

I eat pretty much the same thing. I just try to make sure that I have variety within what I eat. Meaning like I'll have a different veggie with dinner than I do with lunch. Is it really bad what you're doing? No, not at all. Like, here's the thing for health, like your body composition, you're obviously healthy, you're in good shape. Like that is the most important thing. So whatever you're doing, that is the most important thing.

Because I think people can look superficially good and then not be healthy inside.

Sure, sure, sure. And there are plenty of cases of that. But in general, and this will be maybe a controversial statement, if somebody is overweight or obese and they have a really healthy diet on paper, If they lose weight with a less healthy diet, they will be healthier on paper. Like, you take blood work, their blood biomarkers have improved. The easiest way to tell, Jen, whether what you're doing is working or not is to get in-depth blood work done and see if you're deficient in anything or anything's too high or too low, right? Because it just depends on the individual.

Well, this whole idea of like eating so much protein now, I mean, the— it's like, especially at my age, I mean, anyone in their 40s and 50s, it's like protein, protein, protein, protein. I mean, like, I couldn't consume that much protein. So I'm— I take, like, I, I take this amino supplement.

Yeah.

No, by Kion. Do you know what they are?

I do know the company. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't tried their product.

What do you think of that? Tell me the truth.

Yeah.

The truth of taking aminos.

Yep.

So for leucine and all the things, they're not bad.

They're a great supplement, but they don't replace total protein intake because by definition they are just a couple of the amino acids and some are essential.

No, it's not. They have 9.

All 9 essential.

Yeah.

Okay. That's a, that's a, that's a good product because some will just have a couple. They might not have 9. Solid. Amino, amino supplements are fine. They're just not necessarily better than consuming protein. And sometimes they are positioned as superior to protein and it's, it's not.

Oh, I just think it's more about like making sure you're covering your bases. Yeah. Making sure you're covering your bases. I don't think it's— I don't think it would replace, replace my food or anybody's food. But like, if you—

I was going to say, I do think protein is like way overhyped right now.

Isn't it crazy overhyped?

Yeah.

Like, so like, that's one of the trends I was going to ask you. So like, what do we do about that? Just not like— tell me about that. Tell me why it's so overhyped, protein.

Because in the health and fitness space, trends come and go. And as something becomes popular, companies market it and profit off it.

Yeah, well, they put protein in everything.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

I mean, protein— like protein car— it's like protein chips, protein popcorn, protein, protein.

But like, it's like, if I want a muffin, I'm just gonna have a muffin every once in a while, not a big deal.

I don't think putting protein in a muffin is going to change the fact that you're eating a ton of sugar and carbs, right?

Yeah, for sure. But I— so the thing is, Jen, a lot of people will target like 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight, or even like 1.2 or higher. That's really high, but aiming for 0.7 to 0.8 grams per pound of body weight.

People just say 1 gram per—

Yeah, yeah. But that's like—

It's a lot.

It's a lot. And it's also not necessary. Like, there isn't a ton of research to support that. We definitely know that 0.8 grams seems to be like the sweet spot for optimizing health and body composition. 0.8 grams per pound, not kilogram, because it used to be kilogram, the RDA, which was about half of what you actually need. So for me, weighing 220, eating 170 grams of protein, I just make sure I have 50 grams with breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and then I'll have a snack with another 20 or 30 grams. So the breakfast that I was saying earlier, 4 whole eggs, that'll be around 714, about 28 grams of protein, like 7 grams per egg. And then I'll have a serving and a half or so of Greek yogurt that gets me another 25 grams. I've always enjoyed eating a higher protein diet. It's like, it doesn't bother me.

Mm. Me too.

And for lunch and dinner, like 8 ounces of any lean protein source. Chicken, fish, beef, doesn't matter, is going to get you about that 40 to 50 gram range. So for a woman who's a lot smaller, let's say you're aiming for 100 grams or 110 grams. Do you know how much protein do you aim for?

Oh God, I ate so much protein. I usually eat more than I should.

Yeah.

Only because I'm starved. I have a huge appetite.

Yeah.

I'm a volume eater though.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, I like volume.

So like, volume is good.

And then what I'll do is I'll fill up on protein and vegetables. I'll have an exhort— and fruit. I love fruit. I can have £5 of grapes. I know, a lot of sugar, but I love them. Or I'll have like 4 chicken— not 4 chicken, but I'll have— I can easily down 60— 20 ounces of chicken at like at lunch.

That was impressive.

Like, no, no, I can eat more than any man alive. It's actually like a known thing in my— in my life. Like, my appetite I'm ravenous, but I think it's because I exercise a lot.

Yeah.

And I like food.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm definitely not someone who's afraid to eat.

Good.

Put it that way.

That's good. That's good. That's good. Well, I was going to say, if you knew what your protein target is, to maybe give some— I know my target.

I don't go by that. I don't like to use— I don't, I don't— I actually don't actually calculate or do any of that. That will drive me up a wall. Yeah, I do it. I can't do it. I just have to just like I'm hungry, I'm going to eat. I have no willpower when it comes to— I feel like, listen, I do— I exercise like a fiend. I'm eating pretty clean. I walk a lot. If I'm hungry, I'm going to eat. Yeah, that's how my— that's basically—

Have you ever tracked your food?

No.

No. Okay. What's your perspective? I'm just curious. So have you ever struggled with your weight or anything at all?

A little bit. But I think this is— I mean, I wouldn't say I struggled with my weight. That's like an— that's an overstatement, overreach. I think that like, I, I have like a 7 to £9 difference.

That's good. You have a range where you feel comfortable.

I have a range.

Yeah.

Like I feel better when I'm like on the lower end. Mm-hmm. But like I can easily creep up to that 7 extra pounds. Yeah. 9 extra pounds based on the amount of food I eat. So like for example, I just got back from a week in Vegas with my daughter doing a summer intensive and I was with her friend, my friend, her, you know, whatever, like the two moms and the two kids.

Yeah.

And even though I exercise, this is what I tell everybody, exercise will help you get toned and be good for your mood and like good for like, you know, I gained, I gained £5 in like a week.

Yeah. Why?

Because boredom. Like I was sitting around waiting. I was like, hmm, I'll eat like an extra, like, yeah. Am I eating healthy food? Yes. But I, I ate like an extra piece of, or two extra pieces of chicken. I had like sauce on that thing, which I had tons— like, I— so even eating healthy, I ate so much more than normal that I gained £5.

You check yourself when you get back home.

I mean, yes.

Like, you just get back into your routine.

Like, I just go back into my routine. Yes.

That's where people struggle.

That's where people really struggle.

I know.

People— I know. So what people end up doing is like, they, ah, forget it. I'm already like—

yeah, they think they're a failure. They're like, I screwed it all up.

Or they go the other extreme and go very restrictive. And they're like, I'm going to run for 10 miles today, not 5. Well, that's the cycle that people go through.

It's extreme restriction.

Yeah. Or like, fuck it, I'm already—

Yeah, well, it goes back and forth. It's extreme restriction for a period of time and then you can't do that forever. So you either burn out or you go on a vacation and you say, fuck it, and you do whatever you want. And then you come back and you're like, I already screwed up. So that behavior then extends for weeks, if not months. Then you get to a point where you get uncomfortable. It's like, I'm going back on this crazy diet, right? And it's the most common cycle that people are stuck in.

Yeah.

And it's because you're just going between this back and forth mindset of like, I either have to be perfect or I'm not doing it at all. Yeah, it's just not helpful.

It's true. But I think it's also human. Like right now I feel like, like heavy, you know, because I, because I just feel like I'm not as lean as I was 2 weeks ago.

Sure.

Right. So it plays a— especially if you like, it's, it's how you identify yourself as, right?

It's the standard that you hold for yourself.

Exactly. But a lot of this is psychology, right? Like So like for me, people can look at me and be like, what are you talking about? You look so great. But it doesn't matter what they say. It's because I have a certain identity. I identify as someone who's a certain way with certain standards for myself. So if I see like the fact that I can't close my pants, which happens all this more often than I'd like to admit, because of my habit sometimes, but I'm used to it and I try not to kill my, like beat myself up, but go back into the, you know, routine without the extreme exercise and dieting. I think women have a hard time with this.

Yeah.

What I was going to ask you is, you lost a lot of weight. You said when you were a kid you were overweight. How did you lose so much weight, and what are you doing?

So the first thing—

besides you had a growth spurt, I'm sure.

Yeah, well, first and foremost, I— okay, so I'm 11, I go to the doctor's with my mom, and the doctor whispers to my mom— I overheard him saying that I was 2% body fat away from being obese. And that I had to go on a diet and I had to lose weight. That was all the advice. My mom doesn't know anything.

Right. So she put you on all these diets.

Yeah. And she had a trainer and the trainer was like, well, carbs make you gain fat. So for like a whole year, I remember clearly my dinner every day was just like a whole rotisserie chicken, nothing else, just straight chicken. So first thing I did was go super low carb diet. And then on top of that, exercise was kind of used as a reward mechanism. Them. Like, as a kid, if I wanted something, say I wanted a toy or whatever, I had to do a certain amount of exercise. So then I started developing this like weird relationship with exercise that it was kind of like punishment for doing bad things. So I— it was low carb. If I went to family parties, I wouldn't eat anything. Being from a Cuban family, like, we eat a lot of rice, we eat a lot of starchy vegetables, we eat a lot of plantains, like high-carb foods. And so I would go to family parties and not eat anything because I just thought it was going to make me fat. If I did eat it, I would feel bad and then wake up the next day and go for like crazy long runs.

Not because I enjoyed running, but like out of punishment. Right. So that was how I lost weight. And I started swimming. I've always done a ton of sports. So it was definitely a combination of the swimming with the diet stuff. But, uh, my cousin who's about 3 years older than me, same story. He was pretty overweight as a young kid, and he started swimming competitively. He lost a ton of weight. So my mom was like, you're gonna swim because swimming makes you lose weight. And I lost a ton of weight.

Are you still a swimmer?

I don't swim anymore. I, I can still swim very well. I did not like swimming. No, no, because I, I definitely have undiagnosed OCD.

Yeah.

And so when I would swim, like, I'm— I get way in my head on distance sports. So like running, swimming, all I would do is just count every single lap. And every single stroke. And it was just, I don't want to do this.

You don't want to do it.

No.

So what's your diet like now?

Yeah.

And what do you do for exercise now if you hate swimming?

So I'll start with the exercise piece. It gets a little bit easier. The foundation of my exercise is strength training. I've been strength training 4 or 5 times a week for the past 15 years. I love strength training. Like it's, it's what I look forward to every single day. And it's—

you do it every day?

4 times a week right now. When I didn't have kids, I used to train a lot more, but I have a 4-year-old and a 2-year-old and they keep me busy. But I did build a home gym and my son, my son is my 4-year-old. He'll be 4 this month. It's awesome to just see him watch me working out and he comes outside and he's like, I want to do pull-ups and I want to do squats. And living in Florida, outdoor gym, I work out shirtless and my son comes outside and he's like, I want to take my shirt off. So that has been an awesome bonding experience that I really look forward to. But strength training is the core of what I do. I do 2 upper body days, 2 lower body days, pretty much just focused.

How long do you work out?

At the moment, I cap it at like an hour. If I had unlimited time, I would work out for 2 to 3 hours. Like, I just like it.

You just like it. Yeah.

Yeah. And I could socialize at the gym. I like it. But I just focus on the big compound movements.

But wait, you work out at home, you said, or at a gym?

Now at home.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, I was going to ask you, because, you know, you were— you struggled with weight. Do you have food noise? And psychological? Like, are you— do you have disordered eating? I would say not eating disorder, but a disordered eating.

I did for a long time, Jen. I did for a long time. I think, at least based off my experience, it came from an dissatisfaction with my body and being too hyperfixated on the way I look. I think since getting married and growing a business and having a team and having kids, my priorities just have totally shifted to where, like, I see my body as something that serves me to be healthy and be physically fit. And of course I care about the way I look, but it's not nearly as obsessive as it used to be. I struggled with food noise for a long time, and I've always prided myself on having good self-control, so like people wouldn't notice it, or I would just avoid stuff, but it would be there all the time.

Yeah, yeah.

When it comes to my diet now, I really, I eat whatever I want whenever I want. Like I just had In-N-Out before coming here, but I have overall really healthy dietary patterns. Like I enjoy eating healthy food. You know, my breakfast of eggs, Greek yogurt, and a banana. I don't do that because I'm on a diet. I like that. I really like that.

That's how I feel about my breakfast.

Exactly. One of my favorite meals, lean ground beef, spinach, and sweet potato. I eat that multiple times every single week. And somebody will see that. It's like, oh my God, that's whatever, restrictive for your diet. It's like, no, I actually really like eating that. So I think we've trained ourselves. Yes, exactly.

So I think all of this has to go. Yeah, we really like it because that's what we do. That's what we know for— yeah, we've literally trained ourselves to, to like look at that and like, of all, of all the evils, that's the— that tastes the best.

Yeah. But also, if my son's like, Dad, I want some ice cream, we'll just get some ice cream.

Will you eat the ice cream?

Yeah, all the time.

I'm also 6'4".

I mean, I'm also very active. Like, I train very hard and I walk a lot. Like, you were about exercise. Like, I just move a lot.

I do. Yeah.

And for myself, similarly to you, I have a range where I feel comfortable.

What's your range?

210 to 220.

Okay, £10.

Yeah, exactly.

Everyone has like that range. Would you believe in a base— like, I believe, and maybe you, maybe you do too, that everyone has like a baseline that they're the most comfortable with. Yeah. And once you start you're fucking around with it. Yeah, like, you— it's hard to manage it, right? Like, if I go too low for my, for my body type, it's tough. It's so hard to maintain. Like, then I'm like having to like watch every green bean that I eat, right? Or every chicken breast that I consume, because like it's really hard for my body type. That's how I can tell when I look at people if they are— like, I can tell really quickly if someone's naturally thin or if it's like not really their body frame, right?

I do think we all have a baseline, and I also think that baseline can change.

You think so?

100%. Specifically for people who are developing— like, not— okay, when you're talking about like being on the lower end of the range where you feel comfortable and that feels more difficult— I mean lower than that. Yeah, exactly.

I mean lower than the baseline. I don't mean like in those 8 to £7. I'm talking if I go down 15 extra— okay, okay, 10 extra pounds.

You're talking about getting very lean. It gets to the point where like that is unsustainable because your body is saying, I need more fat on me for optimal health, right?

And the Why can I even put something in my mouth? I'll gain that weight back anyway.

But the opposite of that, what I meant to say is I think the baseline can change from a place where your baseline may be relatively unhealthy and you get to a healthier spot. Because I've seen it with my own eyes with literally hundreds of people that I've worked with where like you're at a weight where you are, you have been there for years, it's easy to maintain, but you are objectively unhealthy and starting to focus on healthy. Because when you, when you change your habits, your baseline changes. If your dietary habits change, you're going to feel full. You're naturally going to eat less calories. If you start sleeping better, if you start You do more strength training, you have more muscle, that baseline will change. And I wanted to emphasize that because I don't want people to hear like, oh, I have a baseline, I can't change type of thing.

Yes. Okay. One food everyone should eat more of.

Eggs is definitely up there.

You said it already.

Beans.

Beans.

Beans.

Why?

They are the only whole food that is high in both fiber and protein.

That's a really interesting one. Beans are so bloating, got a lot of carbs, and I think that if you don't watch your exact like amount, serving size, you can gain weight. That's with nuts also. I feel the same way.

Nuts are super calorically dense. Yeah, super dense.

So if you're someone who has a problem with portions like me, I try to stay away from beans and nuts for sure.

Here's the part about bloating. If you go from not eating any beans to eating a ton of beans, you're going to feel uncomfortable. But here's the thing, Jen, I'm sure you would acknowledge that any time you eat very differently than how you typically eat, you feel— Not good. So it's the fact that your microbiome and your digestive system is not used to the new dietary pattern. Okay. And beans are super high in fiber. So if you go from a low fiber diet to a really high fiber diet, you are going to be gassy, you are going to be bloated, and your body gets used to it for the most part.

But I just think beans is super overrated. You think it's underrated and I think it's overrated.

Very interesting because, because of the amount of protein and fiber they have, they are very hard to overeat. Now, if you're having like barbecue baked beans with like bacon and stuff. That's gonna be super caloric. But beans in general, like if we look at, um, like lentils.

Yeah, that's a really good bean.

But lentils, chickpeas, black beans in a fairly like basic way that's not like super tasty by adding a bunch of stuff to it. Yeah, extremely satiating, very hard to—

I love, I love, I love chickpeas and I love lentils, but I can overdo it and have like way too many of those. Okay, one health trend that will disappear in 5 years.

I was gonna say cold plunging, but I feel like it's already disappearing. Is it as popular?

Listen, I don't see it as much on social media as I used to. Only because people are sick and tired. Like, how many people can you see jumping into cold water?

Yeah.

I feel whenever anything becomes too mainstream, it starts to kind of dissipate. Like now every gym is, is like putting a cold plunge in their, in their backyard or whatever. I was never on board with the cold plunging. I have one. I hate it. I find why that, that to me is just ultimate suffering at its very core. I don't I'd rather be in the sauna.

Yeah.

You know, but that's me.

Can I tell you a funny story?

Sure.

I was at the gym and this guy comes up to me and he's like, dude, I know you from somewhere. And I was like, where? And he is like, were we at the, at the cold plunging place? There's a place in Tampa called Sauna and Chill.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. They were like at Sauna and Chill. I was like, dude, you did not catch me at Sauna and Chill. That's the first thing that came to mind. But I think cold plunging, I don't know if it's already dying or whatnot. I think from a dietary perspective, like I hope the whole carnivore diet trend goes away much sooner than 5 years because there is just no reason to not eat any plant-based foods.

I think that's just pure stupidity. Like, any— I don't know where this whole, like, eating a piece of spinach is bad for you or broccoli is bad for you.

It's extrapolation.

It is. Or tomatoes are bad for you.

Yeah, it's extrapolation. It's like they have these compounds, oxalates, phytates, whatever they want pinpoint, and then they're like, these things are toxins and poisons. Like, it's not true. So here, here's the thing, Jenn. This is where context and nuance matters. If I told you, and maybe, you know, the answer to this question, maybe you don't. If I told you there's this thing that causes the following, causes inflammation, causes tissue damage, causes fatigue, would you say that's healthy or unhealthy? Unhealthy exercise does those 3 things. Exercise induces inflammation.

Okay.

Exercise induces stress. You spike cortisol when you exercise. And there's so much talk about cortisol going around. It causes muscle damage. You break down your tissues and you are very fatigued after you train, but it's healthy. Why? Because the dose is what makes the poison. There's this concept of hormesis. Hormesis means that when we expose our bodies to a stressor, our bodies can recover and get stronger from those stressors. Stressors. And in fact, a lot of the health impacts that we get from consuming certain plant-based foods seem to be due to those minor stressful effects of some of these compounds that some individuals, without naming names, say that they're really bad for you and they're not. So it's like, it's the same as exercise. It causes a little bit of stress, but not so much that your body can't recover, recover from it. And so you recover from it and you're stronger.

That's such a good point. Do you think green powders are worth it?

Depends on how you measure worth it. Do they, are they healthy? Yeah, for sure. Are they over-marketed? Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

That's the issue. It's like they're way more expensive than the vegetables, which is fine if you can afford it and it's practical for you, go ahead. But they're overly hyped in many ways. But yeah, they're, I mean, you're, you're getting vegetables, you're getting different plant-based foods and drying them up and putting them into a powder. They're definitely healthy.

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Go to prolonlife.com/JenniferCohen and use Jennifer Cohen to claim your discount and bonus. That's prolonlife.com/JenniferCohen and use code Jennifer Cohen. Which supplements are a complete waste of money?

Okay. Which supplements are a complete waste of money? So it's easier for me to tell you what I think is useful because it's a very short list.

I'm going to ask you that question next.

Okay.

So I'm trying to make clips here.

Okay. So I do think green powders in many ways, in many ways are a waste of money in my opinion.

Okay.

Yeah. So green powders are totally—

I just said it's helpful. You're like kind of being counter—

I'm the nuance guy, Jenn.

Yeah, you are a nuancer.

So it's like, can we have some context? Yeah, but they're— they can't— I think they're a waste of money. I would not recommend somebody consume a greens powder. I would say like, get some veggies in.

Yeah, right.

Hydration supplements, for the most part, for a lot of people—

can't you just put like Himalayan salt in water? Yeah.

And most people get more than enough salt from their diet already. That's the thing.

This whole electrolyte hydration powder nonsense. Again, yeah. What were we doing 4 years ago before this became a thing? Like, I don't even understand how it became so crazily popular.

It's— here's the thing. Right person, right context is helpful. Athletes who sweat a ton, who are exercising. But that's the thing, Jenn. It's like it's helpful there. And then a company will say, If you want to be like an athlete, here's a hydration supplement. It's like it doesn't do anything for the normal person that's eating enough salt and not sweating a ton and not working out for 3 hours.

You know what it reminds me of is like when people go on their little 45-minute hikes and they pack like their little trail mix and they have like the camel water that they have. I'm like, dude, you're going for like 40 minutes up the mountain, like in the suburb. I think we can relax a little bit here.

Gotta have a snack, Jen.

Gotta always have a snack. But like, that's exactly it.

Like, yeah, it is.

I don't drink any electrolytes. That's not my thing. I don't know. I just find some of this stuff is nonsense. Okay, give me some more things that you're going to hate me.

I think for the most part, a lot of amino supplements are as well.

Okay. I would— I actually agreed with you up until very recently. And I'm not just saying this because I take the Kion supplement. I'm saying this because I did my own research and they have all 9 essential amino acids and leucine. And I just know how I feel like with the lean muscle mass. So a lot of this, a lot of this stuff is not great. Other comp— but I do like that one.

BCAAs, for the most part, can be a waste of money.

That's a, that's a waste.

The other part, the thing is, Jen, you can make an argument for any supplement. It's not that it's a waste, it's that—

no, some of them are a waste.

Some of them are a waste, but some of them are also just overly hyped.

Overly hyped.

Where it's like they have an impact, but the way they're marketed is completely wrong.

True.

Okay, without saying any names, okay, I will say this. A name that you mentioned earlier already has an amino— anybody who follows this stuff is going to know.

Oh, AG1, of course.

No, no, not AG1. This person has an amino supplement.

Oh, God, I know exactly what you're talking about. That's a joke.

The claims are that, you know, this is cleaner than protein and it doesn't have all the junk that protein supplements have.

You're talking about Perfect Aminos?

Yes.

Yes. You could say it. I don't care.

Okay.

First of all, I take— that's why I'm a Kion girl, because I think that that's not the case.

Yeah. My issue are the claims.

The claims. Yeah, that's my issue too. Okay. Name other ones.

I would say those are the, the most mainstream ones. There are 100 different forms of creatine as well. Creatine, super helpful, but there's like creatine this and creatine that, and this one digests better, and they're like 5 times more expensive than just plain creatine monohydrate. And there's not much research to support the other forms of creatine compared to just creatine monohydrate.

Yeah. The creatine I like is Momentous. Have you tried that one?

I haven't, but I will promise you it's creatine monohydrate.

If you look at it, it is. And it's also something pure. So it's the way— Pure, pure.

It's, it's, it's just produced in Germany. It's a really high quality product, essentially. Like, you know where it's coming from. It's—

what's it? Well, yeah, it's third party tested. It's NSA certified, blah, blah, blah. But I thought they had a particular way and way that they actually manufacture it where—

potentially. I'm not sure.

Yeah, it dissolves. It basically dissolves in the water or your water or whatever you have, where most of these things I find a lot of these, these supplements or a lot of the creatine clumps.

Yeah, yeah, they do.

Gross.

They do.

Yeah.

I got nauseous from taking creatine, so now I use creatine gummies.

Oh, I was gonna ask you about creatine gummies. Momentous has one also. People love that one too.

So my postdoc mentor, his name's Dr. Michael Ormsby. He's a great sports nutrition researcher. His colleague is coming out with the first research study now on creatine gummies and its efficacy.

And what do you think?

And we'll see. So like, do you think it's, do you think they're effective?

As effective?

So third-party testing, if they test and it has 5 grams of creatine, it certainly seems to be effective. The whole question is, do we absorb it the same way from gummies? And that's literally being tested right now. Like we don't have any research on it. My logical brain says it doesn't make sense that if it was a gummy, you wouldn't absorb it the same way. So I would almost bet my money that it is as effective, but We'll see when the research comes out.

What about multivitamins?

Well, I think multivitamins are great. I think multivitamins are, first off, good product, right? Because like, who knows where you're sourcing stuff from? I think for all supplements across the board, it's like, we're going to make the assumption that it's a good product and it's being sourced properly.

Yes, properly. Don't make that assumption, actually.

Yeah. Well, actually, get something third-party tested, right? Like in the context of like multivitamins, obviously there are things that are like dirt cheap that aren't third-party tested that that you shouldn't be buying.

I'm not to say again, I'm a big Momentous girl because I know how it's been.

Yeah.

How it, I think they have got great vitamins, multivitamin actually. I've been taking, I don't take multivitamins that often, but I recommend those ones.

Yeah.

I think multivitamins are great because they're, yeah, you take it for people who don't really have a proper diet. Correct.

And they're a very cheap failsafe. Like if you are deficient in anything, you're going to get it from a multivitamin. And if you're getting too much of it, you'll pee it out.

So, okay, hold on. Which ones do you think are under, like overrated though? Continue.

Overrated.

Overrated.

Okay. I think, uh, just go boom, boom, boom. Okay. Boom, boom, boom.

Yeah.

I don't think too much about supplements cuz like I just don't care about supplements, but greens powders, overrated. Hydration supplements, overrated. BCAAs, overrated. Many amino supplements beyond quality ones, overrated.

Like Kion.

Many specific, just like Megadosing vitamin D or vitamin C or vitamin B12. Those are really popular. Completely overrated because if you just take too much of it, you pee it out. So I would say those are some of the main ones. Maybe throw me a rock. I can't really even think about too many supplements beyond those.

Okay. How about underrated?

Underrated?

Yeah.

Multivitamin, way underrated because they're super cheap and they're hard to market and make a lot of money.

Oh yeah.

No Names methylated B vitamins. Overrated.

So overrated, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anytime you take any supplement and you you make it 10 times more expensive by calling it something fancier. Overrated across the board.

100%. What about magnesium?

Very good, very, very good.

Now, what's the difference between taking a magnesium L-threonate or magnesium glycinate for bed?

I've seen both. Really good question. From, from my understanding, magnesium glycinate, it seems to be more effective for calming effects and sleep overall. I'm not as familiar with magnesium threonate specifically. I take magnesium glycinate because the research that I've read and the most common products are magnesium glycinate. So that, that's what I use. I love a magnesium supplement because I, God, I'm gonna butcher the, the statistics, but I think it's like 56 to 60% of Americans are significantly deficient in magnesium. The stat there could be completely wrong. It's a, a large amount of people are very deficient in magnesium. Magnesium's so important for so many biochemical reactions. It's not just sleep, but muscle function, bone health, optimal hormone health. Like it's super important and we don't get enough of it. Of it in our diet.

Okay. What about this? I take this all the time too. These Magic Minds, they're like basically, read the ingredients. It has like lion's mane, ashwagandha. Look at all the ingredients.

Here is my only concern with stuff like this. The ingredients are good. It's just like, is it at a high enough dose to have an impact? I don't know.

Take it. Take it now.

All right. Let's take it.

I should have given it to you at the beginning of this. This one has no caffeine though. Do you want some with caffeine? Sure.

Even though I already opened this one, can I have two?

Yeah. I'll spare another one. Hold on. I don't think you could take two in a row though, because the caffeine one—

Ooh, I like the flavor of that.

It's really good, right?

Yeah.

And so I think this is really good for like, just like the nootropics. Do you believe in nootropics?

Because I was going to say, one of my new favorite supplements that I've been taking is caffeine with L-theanine together. I really like it.

Really? Why?

So L-theanine seems to support just like focus and almost like calm energy is the term people like to use. Essentially.

Yeah.

You feel the caffeine, you feel focused, but you don't feel jittery, which I really like. Could there be some placebo? Sure. But I, I've really been enjoying it.

Really? Yeah. So like what's your take on these nootropics? Like the ashwagandha, lion's mane?

Yes.

All the ingred— did you, when you saw them?

Yeah. And I will be super transparent. I don't know the specifics of every single ingredient, but ashwagandha— ashwagandha— yeah, like supplementation is a whole other world. But ashwagandha, I love ashwagandha. It's a really good product. Ashwagandha seems to have some pretty good impacts on sleep as well, if you didn't know that.

Ashwagandha is more of a calming because there's ashwagandha in here. I thought it was— this is supposed to be good for my mental focus and my lower stress. Yes. And for my, yeah, basically my calm energy. Calm energy. Yeah. That's what it says.

Rhodiola is another really good product.

Yeah. That's really good. I love rhodiola.

Turmeric is healthy. Obviously. L-theanine. It has L-theanine in here. Nice. You know how much caffeine is in this?

That one's only 50.

Okay.

That one's like a killer. I mean, when terms of like, I think it's, I take one every single day before, and this is not because I work with them. I, I work with it because I'm obsessed with it.

Okay.

They— I take it before I work out. It really does keep me on point.

Surprised how good it tastes.

I'm so— everyone is. Yeah. Oh my God, you're gonna have like 5. They're gonna like kill me for giving you like 2 in a row. You're gonna be like— no, I think you'll be fine. You're 6'4".

There's only one way to find out. Yeah, and we're about to find out.

You're fine because I also have the Triple Max one. Sorry, Triple Max has 3 times the calorie, uh, caffeine, but it's like, what do you call it, it's time released. I'll give you a box of those if you want.

Sure, I would love it.

They're so good. So what are you gonna tell me about muscle that— what, what are you gonna tell my audience about muscle that we don't know already? Gotcha. When I say that, it's like talking like what, what I, what I mean by that is I know the importance of, it's like the longevity thing and all this stuff, but people talk, people, there's a lot of content around muscle. Yeah. What can you add that's additive about muscle that maybe we don't know?

God, that's a really good question cuz I don't know what your audience knows.

Well, let's try and see.

One thing I always like to talk about from the body composition perspective, what I mentioned earlier of having more muscle mass means you can eat more food. That is absolutely true. Also, if you have more muscle mass, you can have a higher body weight and still look relatively lean, which is a really big benefit.

Mm-hmm.

I'm sure that's fairly common sense, but you know, when we talk about body fat percentage, percentage is relative to your total body weight, right? So if you put on £10 of muscle, you can have literally the same amount of body fat on your body and look substantially leaner.

Yeah, 100%.

So that's why I always tell people like one of the one of the easiest ways to have a leaner and healthier body is to focus on just building more muscle. What does—

but we've said that already.

Yeah. Yeah. And then what does your audience not know? I think focusing on building muscle is the single most beneficial thing you can do for long-term health from the following aspects. One, improved cardiovascular function. Like you don't need to do a ton of cardio to improve cardiovascular health. Yes, cardio is helpful, but so is strength training and building muscle. So reduced risk of heart disease. Atherosclerosis. It's the single most beneficial thing you can do for blood sugar regulation because we store glucose in our muscle as glycogen. So you'll see people who are thin and type 2 diabetics, you know, like what's going on there? I thought diabetes only happens when you're overweight or obese. It happens when you're under-muscled relative to how much weight you have. So best thing you can do for glucose regulation is have more muscle. Bone health, osteoporosis. Do you talk much about bone health specifically for women?

Do I talk about bone health? Are you kidding me right now? Do you?

You do.

Do you know me?

I know, I know. I guess I don't know you, Jenn. Yeah.

Yes. I mean, both. That's what I'm saying. Like, there's such— there's so much.

Listen to how sad this is.

Okay.

Older adults who fall and break a hip and are admitted into an assisted living facility, I think it's about 40 to 45% of them die within one year from complications from the hip fracture, which is completely— again, don't quote me on the stat. The specific number might be off, but it's a large number of people die within a year. Due to complications associated with the hip fracture. Totally preventable by lifting weights.

Yeah, right. Well, I think a couple things. Number one, lifting weights is number one.

Yep.

I also think it's important to do functional training. Sure. That's another one, that mobility training. Sure. I think a lot of times it's not just lifting weights. Yeah, lifting weight is so much more— it's beneficial for sure, but working out in different planes of motion, 100%. So when you're— I think that's under-talked about, if you want to know the truth. That is something that hasn't been spoken about enough.

And I would say The, the two are not different. My whole perspective, actually, this will be a really good topic, is that proper strength training really improves mobility and function. Oftentimes people strength train in a way where it's not conducive towards improvements in mobility. Mm-hmm. 'Cause they're just using weight that's too heavy. They're limiting their range of motion.

Yep.

To give you perspective, I think most people probably listen to, a lot of people watch the podcast as well. I'm a tall dude. I'm 6'4". I'm extremely flat-footed. I used to not be able to squat. Past 90 degrees without coming onto my toes. Just really bad mobility. And my favorite sport to play is basketball. I love playing basketball. I used to not be able to play basketball because I would get intense, intense shooting pain from my hip to my knee.

Mm-hmm.

This happened when I was in my early, early 20s. So not age-related at all. And I don't experience any of that anymore. I have I have really great mobility for my height. Like I can easily put my whole hand on the floor.

That's great.

Without bending my knees. I can squat ass to grass, like really good range of motion.

Ass to grass.

And the only thing I have done to be able to do those things is strength train, but I strength train in a way where I intentionally really push the end range of motion.

Right?

Like Jen, a lot of people will squat to 90 degrees and come right back up. I used to only be able to do that. And I didn't add weight to the bar until I could go all the way down. I can go like my hamstrings touch the back of my calves.

That's a great point.

Exactly.

Well, that's what I taught. That's why I wanted, Like to me it's not like people miss the other half of the conversation.

Yeah.

Like, yes, is it important to weight train and resistant train? Of course it is. But how you do it is so important too.

Yes, yes, yes.

Right? Like I can tell, you can tell a trainer is a really shitty trainer when they're just adding more and more weight to the, to the bar and the machine when they're training with their clients versus getting them to be able to do full ranges of motion with where they are for lighter weight.

One of the things that bothers me most is when we start working with a client and they are afraid to do certain exercises because they've always gotten hurt. And they're like, and I can't do the exercise because I worked with a trainer. And so the trainer was teaching me how to do it. And I always got hurt. It's like, I feel so bad for that person because they've just been so misguided and they've spent so much money on somebody who wasn't really helping them. Because the truth is that no exercise is inherently bad. Like squats are not bad for you. Deadlifts are not bad for you. They're only bad for you if done incorrectly. And some people, should they do alternatives? Sure. But like, I would love to be able to show you examples of people that we worked with in their 70s, Jenn, who were like, I can't bend my knees more than like 20 degrees because of crazy pain. And like a year later, they're literally squatting with a dumbbell, you know, all the way down.

Yeah.

And it's because you just have to learn how to do it correctly, which means come down slowly. Don't just go down as quickly as possible. When you get to the bottom and it's uncomfortable, pause there, control the weight on the way up. Up, push yourself every time to go a little bit deeper rather than just add weight for the sake of adding weight. So there's all these little variables that when you do them correctly, strength training is extremely regenerative. I think the biggest misconception around strength training, one is women think they're still going to get too bulky, which is ridiculous.

Ridiculous.

But two is that it's harmful if you do it too much or too hard, which is not true at all.

That's good. Okay, so I like that. Give me something else about what you want to talk about muscle and So maybe not even muscle, but strength training as a whole.

I credit, I think fitness, strength training specifically is, has been my biggest mentor in my life. So maybe getting a little philosophical and deep here towards the end of the episode, but, um, so I grew up the majority of my life with a single mom, had no idea what a healthy relationship looks like. My dad was in and out of my life. My dad and I are cool now, but he's had issues with alcohol and drugs and abuse his whole life.

I'm sorry.

No, no, it's, it's, I'm so used to it. But yes, it's not, I don't, I don't wish that on anybody. Right. So never saw a healthy marriage growing up. My mom, single mom, did the best she could. We had a lot of challenges. I grew up feeling like I was stupid my whole life. Like I'm definitely, or was, I don't know if dyslexic, like I would get my numbers and colors mixed up. Uh, in school I was class clown. I would always act out. Now I realize it was because a lot of it stemmed from the instability at home. And on top of that, I was chunky and overweight and uncomfortable with my skin the majority of my life. And I say that fitness has been my biggest mentor because fitness for me is strength training. Like, that's what I've done my whole life. It's what's taught me discipline. Here's a perfect example of what I mean by my parents weren't the best example for a lot of these things. In 5th grade, I was asked to test to be in gifted classes, and I told my dad about And he was like, why would you want to do that?

That's more hard work. So like this whole idea of discipline, nonexistent, right?

That's what your dad said?

Yeah. He's like, why would you want to do that? That means you got to do more work. I'm like, all right, let's do more work.

And that's why you didn't do it?

No, I did.

I did. You ended up doing it?

My mom has always pushed me strongly academically, but discipline, I feel like, is something that I learned through strength training. Delayed gratification, right? The idea of like doing hard work now and for an unforeseen result in the future. Consistency, all of these skills that are extremely transferable.

Do you know I did a TED Talk on this, right?

I didn't know that.

Did you do it?

I know that I watch your Instagram content.

Okay, okay, well, on my Instagram content, I do— I did do clips about this. I actually, in all fairness, it didn't come out yet. Okay, but I, I, I basically— the fitness TED Talk is called titled "Why I Believe the Squat Rack Taught Me More Than My Business Degree." Yeah, because of these exact reasons.

That just gave me chills. That's what I want to help people realize, that yes, it's cool to build muscle and get in better shape and look better, like, that's super cool, but it's the actual skills that you develop by focusing on life skills.

Yes, 100%. This is—

I do a lot of my stuff on this, and I think strength training is just like such a visceral example of that.

Did you not read— if You should see what I just posted today. Did you see what I posted today?

No, I haven't.

Okay, well, you should listen to it. You should put that on your to-do list.

On IG?

Yes.

I will watch it right after this.

And you have to like and comment. If I don't see a comment from you, because that's literally what we talked about, what you're saying. I think it's like, to me, that's what I talked about, is that fitness for me isn't about the fitness piece. It's about like, it's It's the byproduct of what it taught me in life. But people, and I wanted people to know, like people, you come, it's the gateway drug in my opinion for success. That's how I say it. It's the gateway drug. Like, yeah, maybe you, you show up because you wanna get a nicer ass, but you leave a whole different person.

100%.

And that to me is like the message. The other thing that's interesting, I don't know if you know this, cuz well, I, I told you before we started your whole thing about strong is the new skinny. I'm like, that was like a book I wrote, a bestselling book, like 10 years ago. I'm like, did this guy just— are you guys— are you just stealing all my content?

I tailored my topics to your expertise.

Oh, sure. Okay, okay, okay.

I'm not trying to rip you off over here, Jenna. The last thing I was gonna say with this whole strength training piece, because I do think it's like, it's who you become, and it's also the ripple effect of the impact it has on the people around you.

So that's a great point.

This is a really cool story that for me is incredibly touching. I'll say his name because he's not anybody on social media. One of our clients, his name is Axl. And Rose—

just kidding. You don't even know who that is, I bet.

Do you know the name? I don't know who it is. Oh my God, check me out. Listen, listen, my wife roasts me for this 24/7. I don't know any celebrities, I don't know any actors, I don't know any social media people except like the people in my bubble. I just don't pay attention to anything.

That's really good. But Axl Rose is like— was the lead singer of Guns N' Roses. Okay, I love Guns N' Roses. I know who he is.

I know who he is. I like Slash, the guitar player, because I play the guitar. You don't know who Slash is? Come on, Jen.

I don't know who Slash is.

I'm messing with you.

Oh, I know, I know who Slash is. But Guns— Axl Rose, it's like me saying, do you know who Michael Jackson is?

Of course I know Michael Jackson.

Okay, well, no, actually—

okay, anyway, my 4-year-old loves Michael Jackson.

That's what's crazy. He's like— anyway, we're digressing. Okay, because Michael Jackson has had a resurgence, but people seem to have forgot all the charges against him. But anyway, let's go.

So this is, this is what I think fitness does for people. Axel came to work with us for weight loss, whatever. Didn't really have a love for working out at all. He actually like did not enjoy working out, committed to the process. 6 months later, he was strength training in his garage at home. 6 months later, his teenage son started asking him if he could work out with him. So now he's working out with his, I think, 15, 16-year-old son. And then a couple months after that, his, he said that his son was naturally like shy and timid. And timid, his friends at school started asking his son for training advice. And then he felt cool and like he belonged with this group. And what he told me, he was like, Joey, never in a million years did I think I would bond with my son over exercise. Like, for me, that gives me chills. That is what I want people to realize.

That's beautiful. I love that.

It's like, listen, it's fucking hard to get started, right?

I love that reason.

Yeah. But you just don't see, you don't see beyond the horizon of like what's actually possible for your life when you focus on fitness.

Well, I think it's with anything, right? Like, you know, I have a 13-year-old boy who wants nothing to do with his mom, right? But the one thing that actually is kind of connecting us now or bonding us is because I have a 13-year-old boy who is now much more focused on having, being fit and having like, you know, being broad and like all and like having like looking a certain way because he likes— he's starting to like girls. Yeah, yeah. So what do we have? What's the only common theme we have?

Getting jacked.

What's the only thing that I can add to the conversation? He comes to me, he's like, Mom, like, I never— uh, like, uh, should I have protein shakes? What should I put in my protein shake? What's a good exercise for that? And I'm like, oh, so we now exercise together, be it not often, but it's starting. And it's— I like— I I really kind of appreciate what you just said about Axel because that in its own right, you know, the fact that you can bond with somebody or you can, like, I actually believe also besides the sons or whatever, that community, like when you're around, like you kind of in overall, like the like-minded people that you attract or like that are, that you kind of associate with because of this, because you have people who are naturally disciplined, who are people who, are patient or team players or whatever it is, you know what I mean? I think it's definitely the ripple effect.

Community is super important.

Community.

And yeah, we can end there. We try to do, we try to incorporate as much community as possible with our clients because a lot of people who struggle with their fitness don't have anybody in their personal lives who they can rely on for fitness either. So like when you're part of a group of people that are going through the same experience, the same challenges, it makes it that much more enjoyable and easy overall.

I totally agree. I don't even have to ask you this question. Cardio or lifting? We know you're going to say lifting. I know that's like an obvious one. Why do people know exactly what to do, but they still don't do it?

God, that is a loaded question.

I know.

I think oftentimes— okay, I will do this as succinctly as I can.

Please.

Knowledge alone is not enough. First off, a lot of people think they know what to do and We don't, hey, because like Dunning-Kruger effect, we think we know more than we actually know. But from my perspective, I think oftentimes, Jen, people don't take time to reflect on what their actual priorities are. I think that's a big one. I have a lot of conversations with people around just getting to the bottom of why they're trying to do what they're trying to do in the first place. I think when you're really clear on that, it helps you identify what your actual priorities are and you realize health is a priority. I think another part is Um, lack of accountability and support. It's so easy for us to give up on ourselves, right? Like, if you're a busy parent, and it's not excuses, but it's the reality of life, and you have to provide for your kids and work, and you really prioritize your profession, it's easy to just be like, oh, I'll skip my workout today because I can just get some more work done. I think that's where, again, being really clear on your priorities is super important.

Um, so I think a lack of accountability, a lack of prioritization, a lack of a deep enough desire to change. Oftentimes people only change when something really scary happens. So if you are a little bit overweight and you don't focus on your fitness, but like you're naturally a confident person, you don't really feel bad about the fact that you're like, there's nothing really pushing and driving you to change because you also don't know how good it feels to be in good physical shape.

Well, you don't know what you don't know.

Exactly. Exactly. So a lot of people wait till they have a freaking heart attack to make a change, which is so sad. I think it's a combination of those variables, honestly.

I, I, I think that is a con. I think that that's accurate too. You're not wearing any wearables. You're not wearing an Apple Watch. You're not wearing an Oura Ring, a Whoop.

I am like the least fitness fitness.

Well, no, no, no. What I was going to actually say, which is really funny, a lot of the most fit people I know don't do any of this nonsense.

Yeah.

Which is funny. Like, do you believe in tracking your sleep, tracking your calories, tracking your blood sugar, tracking your I don't think those are all on the same playing field.

My perspective is, so when we look at the research, the people that are the healthiest and in good shape, or let's say, let's put it this way, people that maintain weight loss, they track something. So that something can be your steps. It could be your protein. It could be your weight. Like I don't track my calories, but I weigh myself because I don't like letting myself get above 220. So I weigh myself every day. It doesn't bother me at all.

Right.

I wake up, I weigh myself and that's what I do. I think tracking calories is a very useful tool for a period of time to learn about your own eating behaviors. Because a lot of people have no idea, right? They're just like, orange juice, healthy. It's like sugar bomb, a lot of calories, right? So I think it's a really useful learning tool. I don't think it's something you should do forever unless you want to do it forever. I know people that like tracking their calories. Other things like tracking your sleep, I don't think it's bad. I just think we become so obsessed with data. It's like if you wake up tomorrow and you had bad sleep, What can you do about last night's sleep?

I know. Do you know what actually happens? I forget to check the data that I have on my— like, I'm wearing this ring now because of the aesthetic of it.

Yeah.

And I'm like, oh shit, I forgot to check my sleep because it doesn't help me. Me knowing that I have a score of 68 versus 88, all it does is get me pissed off. Like, oh crap, I slept like shit. I knew I slept like shit. So what's the benefit to that? Like, just having the data just so you can be annoyed with yourself?

For some people, I would say it is a reminder to prioritize your sleep habits. Like, I think for some people it's helpful in that way. But yeah, I think most times we just get too obsessed with numbers. I forget who said it, there was a sleep expert I was listening to on a particular podcast, and it was like an hour talking about sleep metrics. And then at the end he was like, but honestly, if you go to sleep and you wake up and you feel good, you're good. And if you wake up and you're tired, you didn't get good sleep. It's like, yeah, it really is that simple.

But everything is like, like common sense isn't so common anymore. You know what I mean? Like, we, it's, we all know this is the problem, right? Like, too much is becoming too much.

Yeah.

You know, that's why when you said earlier, like, oh, I don't know any of these people, I don't know any of this. God bless you. The less you know, the better. I don't think you knowing every social media person and this celebrity and that celebrity is gonna help you in any way in your life, really. You know what I like to watch on social media?

What?

Comedy.

I like comedy, and all I get on my social media is food.

Oh, you have food?

Okay, I get sushi, steaks, like non-stop.

Oh, I get tons of comedy. Yeah, a lot of fitness, but I also get a— but I, I get a lot of comedy, and I get— actually, it's got a lot of comedy. Yeah, I love it. It's like my favorite things. That's what I always heart when I'm laughing.

One of the best things for your health.

I was gonna say, that's what I did. Stealing myself. I say laughing is the best thing, best thing for for longevity is laughing.

And it feels great.

Yeah. Well, who doesn't like to laugh?

That's why one of my favorite things to do is shit talk.

Yeah, me too. Okay. I think that's good. I know we gotta like wrap this, but, um, okay. Dr. Joey, um, where do people find you if they wanna know more stuff about you?

So Dr. Joey Munoz on pretty much all social media platforms.

After you just finished saying that, like, yeah, YouTube, Instagram, podcast.

And then two things. One is if somebody is interested in working with us, you can head over to strongstandard.com. That's our coaching page and just submit an application and we'll see if we are a good fit to help you. What I always say though is before encouraging somebody to reach out to work with us is to learn more about our philosophies to see if we're a good fit. For those of you guys listening, if you are on Instagram and you comment the word Jen on any of my posts, I'm gonna send you over my ebook. Book, and you can learn more about what we do, how we do it, nutrition, training, all that stuff, to learn more about what we do before deciding whether or not you want to move forward with coaching.

Don't put the pressure on me. You could do it or not do it. But all right, thank you so much. I appreciate you being on the, on the podcast. You were a pleasure.

Thank you.

And, uh, good luck with your, I guess, your continued health journey.

Thank you. Thank you. And thank you for having me on. This was a ton of fun.

Absolutely. Now go to the next podcast.

Yeah, gotta drive.

Yeah. Bye.