Transcript of Uzo Aduba

Hi, my name is Uzu Aduba. I feel interested in being Conan O'Brien's friend. Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walking loose, climb the fence, books and pens.

I can tell that we are going to be friends.

I can tell that we are going to be friends.

Hey there, and welcome to Konan O'Brien Needs a Friend, a podcast where I'm joined, as always, by my bosom buddies, Sonam Obsession. Hi. Matt Corley. Hi. Nice to see you both.

It's nice to see you, too. Yeah.

Let me ask you guys a quick question. Why did you laugh? When you travel, do you do things to make sure you don't get sick? No. No. You don't really do anything, right?

What do you mean? Do I wear a mask and stuff, or do I take vitamin C?

Do you take sanitizer? Do you wipe down the seat? No. Do you do all that stuff?

No, I don't.

Because when I see people do that now, I think, I should probably be doing that, too. But I don't do it. Then I go a step further. I put my mouth and my tongue on the seat. Oh, no. Yeah. Just because if it's an aisle seat, it tastes good. I don't know why it has a cool- What? It's just an aisle seat, the armrest. It has a slay of minty, but also it's a little bit of... What is that? Is that pork? What are you talking?

Are you a seat sniffer?

No, it's not sniffer. I won't stand for that. You're a seat licker. I think those people are sick. I lick and slobber the armrest.

Do you ever soil the seed or you just- No.

What are you talking about?

I'm sorry to insult you.

No, that's disgusting. No, I think what I do is in its own way, classic.

I've heard of a seat sniffer through a friend of mine.

I asked for a reason, which is that- She knew someone who did it. Who did what?

He sniffed seeds.

How did she find out? Did she catch that person or did they confide?

They had a camera set up. What? I know. This is not... This is- What? Off somewhere.

No, it's not off.

No. They noticed something was off. This was at their house. Then they left the room and they left a camera rolling, and the guy just snipped seats when they left the room.

I have 15 questions in a row.

It's not even like a... He dug his nose in.

What? Okay.

It was just like...

Okay, hold on a second. A lot of questions. When they said they noticed something was off, did they notice that he had a cushion from the couch hanging out of his nose? He's like, Yeah, so you guys might want to leave the room now. Oh, my God. Why is that bolster cushion hanging out your nostril? Seriously, they noticed something was up. You don't know what they noticed? I don't know.

He was a weird friend, and I think he was a friend of a friend.

When they set the camera up, they didn't know what they would find.

They had no idea. But chairs were weirdly placed. Things were weird. They were like, This guy's just a little off.

Maybe the imprint of his face was in the couch cushion. Do you know what I mean? Every cushion was like the shroud of turning. I was going to say it's like a Roman death mask. They just They just saw this face, this death mask, perfectly imprinted on their couch. Seat sniffing, I never even think about that.

But now that you hear about it- Well, now I'm like, What was I doing?

Why am I licking the armrest on the aisle seat when I could be sniffing the seats. No, none of that appeals to me. The reason I did ask- Braved stance. The reason I did ask is that one of our guests recently, Rachida Jones, I was chatting with her, and she was talking to me about... We were talking about travel, and I said, I travel a lot for these max travel shows, and I'm always catching a bug. I get run down. The hours we shoot are really long. I'm on all these planes. I shake a lot of hands. She gave me a list of things that I should bring with me when I travel. It's a very long list of all kinds of stuff, including a piece of copper that you put in your nose that I think kills bacteria. I don't know. The reason I bring it up is that my wife is really into this, too. Liza is really into... She reads up about home remedies and ways that you can keep bacteria bay or boost your immune system. She's always drinking various special herbal tease at night. I don't do that.

But when you go to a hotel, because I've heard the remote control is the dirtiest part of the hotel. Does she wipe that down before you guys use it?

I use the remote control to stir my cocoa. I'm like, I'm going to stir this up. I guess I'll use the old remote. They'll say, There's a spoon right there. I like the remote better. Are you a remote sniffer? I'm a remote sniffer.

I don't think there's enough immunity stuff in the world to stop you from getting sick.

Because you've traveled with me all over. I always get a cold or something. Nothing that bad. I just get- But it's not because if your immune system, because I actually think you have a pretty good immune system, it's because you're talking to everybody, you're close, and everyone's breathing on each other, and then you just shoot for hours, and then you are- I push it a little bit. You push it so much.

I don't think there's any homeopathic cure for that thing. You're just too much in contact.

What's called if I had self-esteem. I think what Rachida should have done is said, Oh, they also make self-esteem in a pill. You could have that. But no, I appreciate it. A lot of her stuff looked really good. I just think you're right. I will talk to everybody. I'll get two hours of sleep the whole time. I I'm not licking the aisle armrest, but I'm talking to people very close.

I'm just thinking when the apocalyptic plague finally comes, you're going to bring it to the States. I think it's going to be you.

Oh, your patient zero. I'll be patient zero.

You're Patrick Dempsey in Contagion or whatever that was.

Wait, what a weird reference. I know. No one really knows- Outbreak. Outbreak. Yeah.

What a weird reference.

Yeah, Sona.

Sona, would you just- What I just Wasn't it Outbreak?

You're right, but how weird have you been bringing that?

Who else is in that? So he's Patient Zero?

Yeah, he just says- Then Dustin Hoffman was in it. Rene Ruso. Kevin Spacey. That movie traumatized me a little bit. Morgan Freeman, Donald Sutherland.

Yeah, a movie that prophesizes a worldwide outbreak. Good thing that never happened. Happened, happened, happened, happened, happened, is that nothing I do will help me when I travel. Nothing will help you.

Sona runs in a circle of seat sniffers.

Yeah, that I want to know. I love people. That's what I want to hear more about. I've never done that. I've never set up a camera in a room because I suspected something. I should start doing that. God forbid, someone does it to me.

Here are some four cameras in this room right now.

Wait, there are cameras in here? Yes. Oh, no. I come in here at night a lot.

I mean, just the idea that he's like, Everyone's gone. It's time to sniff some seats. Did you guys just step out of the room for a moment? I wasn't there. This is like something I heard. But yeah, they strategically left him alone in the room.

What are they doing? They're just waiting while he sniffs seats?

I think they're just giving it a minute, and then they went back and he was like, Everything's cool. I wasn't doing anything. He didn't quickly get back in position?

No sneet sniffing here. Did I say sneet sniffing? No sneet sniffing here. That's how nervous he is. No sneet sniffing here. I was going to say. It makes you seem a little guilty. No, no, no, no, no, I see.

I move between these two seats.

Yeah, you move between seats. But this seat right here, that's pure Konan. That territory is marked.

Come on. Come on.

I would go-Fully spread.

You know what? Honestly, if I was going to sniff a seed, I'd sniff whichever one Ted Danson always sits in. Yeah. Yeah. Is it Konan?

Oh, never mind. I don't want to sense a Konan seat. Whatever cool, beautiful, amazing aura scent that he has, I've ruined it with my old potato scent. Is it weird I just said that?

No, not at all.

No, not at all. I mean, if it was genders were reversed, you'd be a creep. It's true. But you'll get away with murder. All right. My guest today is an Emmy award-winning actress who as Crazy Eyes on the hit Netflix series Orange is the New Black. She now has a new memoir titled The Road is Good: How A Mother's Strength Became a Daughters' Purpose. I am thrilled she's here today. Uso Aduba, welcome.

Can I just tell a really quick story? Sure. Okay. The reason why I'm interested in Being A Friend is because the first time I did your show, it was the first This time, someone made me feel completely comfortable. I had always been so nervous. Wow. Yeah, I had always been so nervous on television and I don't know, just nervous. It was so new to me, generally. I just felt relaxed. I felt like you were really listening and generally interested in what was going on, and I just felt myself. I'm interested in being coming over access.

That's what I mean. That's really nice. That's what I mean. I like that. No, I'm glad you had that experience, and that was always what was aiming for was to just tell people, It's just me. This isn't a big deal. We're hanging out. Then there happens to be some lights and cameras here, but I'm glad you felt comfortable. You told me just now in the green room that there was a strange series of events because it was your first time doing my show on late night, and you had to leave and go directly from there to the The White House. Is that right?

Yes, correct. It was this crazy mix of events coming into place. One of them was I had the exciting experience of getting to be on a Konin show. Then the next day, I'd been invited to the White House for the African Summit dinner. There'd been a summit all week there in DC at the White House by President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama, which was massive, mind-blowing. I'm such a fan of your show, too. I was like, Oh, my God! This is so wild. We're going to be on the Konan-O'Brien.

No, it really is. No, it really is two events of equal importance. No, seriously. It's like late night appearance with Konan is here and then right there on the same level.

It's like you have to pay.

The African conference, which, by the way, I was not invited to. Again. Really? Unbelievable.

Unbelievable.

Yes. Anyway.

It was uncomfortable.

Everyone there was like, Why isn't cone in here? This isn't right. You know what's so crazy? Which is... I'm just curious what your feeling was going in and meeting the Obamas at the White House because they are very good at making people feel comfortable. Do you know what I mean? Especially, First Lady Obama, since then, in the interactions that we've had, she calls it as she sees it. She's just very easy to talk to.

A thousand %. I don't know how somebody can simultaneously match the level of the office and the esteem the elegance and the sophistication and importance of an office while simultaneously making you feel like you're just coming into their den or something and just coming to pay a quick little visit. You came from around the corner, which I absolutely did not. But it was amazing. Honestly, I think I can count it. Now, I've had a baby and since gotten married, so it was Those are incredible days. But I guess tied with that was the best day of my life because I brought my mom with me, and that was the first question. I was like, Can I bring my mom? They're like, Yes, you can bring. I was like, That's happening. My mom, that was her president. She kept always be like, My president, my President Obama. That's how she would always say it. She loved them, and I did, too. That was the first president that I'd ever stomped for and came as for and gave the $10 they had, struggling actor, whatever. I just remember walking up to meet them, and I'm going to do a terrible President Obama, but he's like, Hello.

I was like, Hi, how are you? I was like, My name's Uzo. He's like, I know who you are. I was like, What? Then he was like, Who's this?

You owe the federal government $3,000 in back taxes. That's why you're here today. That's where he's focused on.

Yeah, exactly. Then he was like, Who's this? It was my mom. It was just wild because my mom shaking his hand. Honestly, you guys, I was like, My family's from Nigeria. Both my parents immigrated. Tough stories, some humble, humble beginnings. I was just looking at my mom, I was like, this woman from Obusi in Anambura state in the country of Nigeria is now in the White House in a single generation of living in this country. I was like, this is the time. I don't think it gets better than that.

That's the American story at its best. There are many American stories, but at its best, it's someone can come from Nigeria and in their lifetime have children and then go with one of those children's invited as an honored guest of the President because of what they've made happen on their own with the help of their family, whatever. But in the arts, whatever, that's the idea. It's funny because we are talking today about your book, which is about to come out, and it's called The Road is Good. The Road is Good is the translation of what your name means in Nigerian. Is that right?

Yes. My tribe, Anebo, my tribe, it means the road The Road is Good. What it really even more nuanced means, it means the journey was hard, but it was worth it. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. It's like you would say that, Ozaamaka, say you were coming to visit my house and you're running late and then you're stopped in traffic and then there's rain all over the road and there's a pile up and what was snow suddenly here in Los Angeles? All of it. Then you get there tired and wet and drained. I opened the door and I'm like, Hey, makah, oza. How was the journey? You'd say, Oza, Maca. It was hard, but it was worth it because I'm here now.

That's beautiful that your name means that. Thanks. Konan is Gaelic for the face is wide. Is that?

Well, both of those are very true.

Both contain a beautiful I've got a fat Irish face. But we both come from... You're from Medfield, Massachusetts. I was telling you, I was in Massachusetts yesterday. I came back last night. I had a gig, a performance that I did in Rhode Island. Then I went up north to see my parents and my brothers and my sister, and there in Massachusetts. I was just there, and I'm thinking, we probably have similarities in the way that we grew up in Massachusetts. I'm also imagining big differences. You talk about this in your book, you're growing up in Medfield, Mass. Are you the only Black student in your area? Or did you feel like you were an alien that had dropped onto another planet, or did you feel comfortable?

At times, an alien, and then at times I was comfortable. I mean, first of all, A, yes. Outside of my siblings, yes, I was the only one. There were two others in my entire school. There was a level of it that was comfortable because That's all I knew having grown up there. I was used to it. But then there's moments that happen as you mature and you grow and you start to notice the absence of you that you're wondering, why Why am I the only person here? Where is everybody else? How come I only see them on the weekends when I go to these Ebo meetings with my family? Or just even in smaller things, I would watch. I remember there was one year Disney, the Wonder World of Disney, on Sundays, would do their movies, and they had done an adaptation of Polyana, an all-black adaptation called Poly, and it was with Felicia Rasha. It's amazing, by the way. If you've never seen it, I love it. I have it on DVD to this day. It's called Pauley with Felicia Rishad, Keisha and I pulling them. Brian Adams, who was my first crush. I remember getting excited because my friends at school, we'd always watch all the movies, whatever.

Sure. Then I came one day ready to talk about Poly, and nobody had seen it. I was like, How did you miss this genius work that just came up? But that just wasn't on the radar. Those were the moments where you started to notice the gaps. I noticed the gaps or talking about hair or braids or moments where people have my hair out and then have braids the next day. They'd be like, How did your hair grow so fast? I was like, I don't know. I just realized that there was a different understanding of culture. Sure.

I would think. Because you talk in the book, which, congratulations, by the way, it's an amazing story. Thank you. It's a beautiful story because you're really writing this. It's your story, but it's also a tribute to your mom who You passed in 2020. One of the first things that I clocked when I was reading the book is your mom, she died too early, but she got to see all your success. That's right. To me, that's the big blessing. She got to see your crazy success because it was a long road for you. But I was noticing in the early part of the book, you're talking about How you really didn't... You're uncomfortable with your name because people had a hard time pronouncing it. You told your mom you were thinking of changing it to Zoe? Zoe. Yeah. Your mom had this genius response.

She had, and she was ready. I was in the kitchen. I had a teacher who just would never say it right. It was so tough. You just want to blend in when you're a kid. You don't want to stand out for anything. I didn't anyway when I was little. I remember her coming home and she's in the kitchen and I was like, Mommy, and she's like, and I was like, Can you call me Zoe? She was cooking and she stopped and she was like, Why? I was like, Because they can't say Ozaamaka. Without skipping a beat, my mother was like, If they can learn to say Tchaikovsky, Andustoyevsky, and Michelangelo, and they can learn to say Ozaamaka. She just went back to cooking, and it was the end of it. Yeah. Mic drop. Mic drop. A total mic drop. She had been through it before. I have an older sibling, my older sister. Her name is Onie. She wanted to be called Tony. That's just confusing.

The same. Hey, Tony.

She'd already said the same thing to her. What she was really just establishing right there at the door was who you are is okay, is enough, and everybody better get used to it.

Good.

God bless.

You were good student, great athlete. You were interested You were a very serious figure skater for years and years, and you were interested in going to the Olympics, and you had a lot of ability. And then your parents come to you and say, We can't afford this anymore.

Yeah. I'm one of five kids. We had a pretty humble upbringing. We were ready. Two of my siblings were in college. Figure skating is a very, very expensive sport for people who don't know. There's skates and ice time and coaches fees, choreography, costumes, travel. Ads up. My parents were doing the best they could to keep up. But as the hours were growing and just in that year when I had to stop. My coach at the time had said, She actually needs to skate more, put in more hours, and we can see where this goes. At that point, my parents were already pretty stretched thin. They were like, My mom sat me down at a competition, and she was like, This is going to be the last one. This will be the last one. She's like, We can't afford it anymore. This is like a college education. We don't have it. It was tough at the time. As a kid, you I didn't have that same understanding, and I didn't have the level of understanding or maybe even the appreciation, some level, of what had already been expensed and sacrificed for me. But when I look back on it now and think about it, I'm like, wow, there was skating, there was violin, there was cello, there was ballet, there was hockey.

There were so many things that my parents saw when they came to this America, as my mom would always say, that as opportunities and exposures and experiences experiences that just did not exist, wholly did not exist for them as kids, that it was like, wow, they did everything they could. They stretched it to the line to try and make it happen for their kids and just give them a taste, even if they couldn't serve you the whole meal. They wanted to give you just a taste of the possibility of America.

Also, I have this theory that good work is never wasted.

Yes.

If you, at a young age for many the years work very hard on figure skating and the training and the dedication and repetitive honing of a certain skill over and over and over again, is an amazing thing to learn, and that's going to be with you. Clearly, you take that because that doesn't work out. But then you get interested in theater and you apply that to acting. All hard work is preparation for something else. People get too literal and think, Oh, that was all wasted because you're a professional, you're not an Olympic figure skating champion. No, that all went into something else.

A hundred thousand %. Having played, done track and field as well and figure skated for so long, which are individual sports for the most part. Self motivating is something that I've learned since I'm five. You know what I mean? Good head talk, being able to talk my head into doing something that I want to achieve because you have to do that for the three and a half, four minutes on the ice. You have to develop a good head talk. You have to develop a good head talk when you're on the blocks running track to get your mind in the place it needs to be to achieve. Listen, guess what? If that's not true for me, I have a daughter now. I can shove these dreams under her. Joking. I'm joking. Kitting,. Not really.

You just be a total tiger mom. You It's crazy. It's this part of the book that is hard to believe, but you're doing theater and you're auditioning, auditioning, auditioning, auditioning, trying to get these different roles. You're getting by, but a huge part of auditioning is disappointment, disappointment. You audition for Orange is the New Black, haven't heard back yet, and you decide, I think I'm out. I think I'm done. You decided, more or less, to quit.

Yes.

Then you get the phone call. Is that correct?

That is 100% correct. It was also, by the way, the first time I'd ever quit. I have never quit anything before, and I I never quit this, more specifically, acting. I had doubted, I have questioned, I have been exhausted, but I've never in my mind been like, I'm done. It was a Friday, I was just wasted. I had been auditioning for film and television the whole summer. Well, exclusively, I saw my bank account disappearing, gone, pretty much, and just kept hearing no after no after no. I had made it up in my mind. I was on Monday going to call my agent and call my manager and tell them that I was going to go to law school. I'm good.

The ultimate humiliation. And cheap. That's right.

But I know. Yeah, that was like- Can you imagine there are lawyers listening right now?

They're like, Damn it. I had hung you in another day.

Yeah, right? But I did. I was like, legit. That was what I was going to do. I called my sister Chichi. I ordered some wine, I ordered some sushi, and we were going to be like an I'm out party. Then 5:45 PM on the nose. My phone rang and it was my team saying, Hi, how are you? I was like, I'm good. How are you? They're like, Remember that audition you went on for that show Orange is the New Black? I was like, Yeah. They're like, You remember the part you went out for? Because it was a different part. I was like, Yeah, I remember. They're like, Well, you didn't get it. I was like, I'm leaving at the right time now that agents are calling you to tell you when you don't get jobs.

This is a new part of our service, but you failed. We want to talk about it for 40 minutes.

I was like, Okay. They were like, But they'd like to offer you another role. I was like, Wow. I'd never done anything on TV. It was wild. I was just like, This is crazy. I definitely did not know at all, for real, for real, for real, for real, for real, that that was going to change my life in any way. I knew that it kept me in, but I had no idea that it was going to do anything.

You talk about this in the book. You get the role of Crazy Eyes, and the time between you getting that role, I think it's within a year, maybe less, between getting that role and sitting at the Emmys nominated when you hear your name as the winner. Yes. That's- Crazy. Yeah, that's fantastic. Who gives you the Emmy?

Morgan Freeman. My God. Morgan Freeman. It was wild. I was walking up there and I was, for some reason, listing his resume, and I was like, Glory, Bruce Almighty. It was a driving mistake. Shosh In Redemption, a favorite. Going. Yeah. This guy's amazing. Yeah.

He was just handing it to you. We started talking about the life cycle of the Penguin. No, Morgan, no. Yeah, but I mean, it's such a funny thing about this business, but talk about famine and then feast. It's just there are long periods or stretches of disappointment and misery. I'm always reminded of there's this movie that was made, I believe in the 1950s, and it's one of the later Humphrey Bogart movies, Humphrey Bogart, Katherine Hepburn. It's a great movie called The African Queen, and it's about basically it takes place in the beginning of World War I, and they're trying to make their way down this river because They have this idea to accomplish this mission together. They're in this tiny little boat, and it's impossible odds, and they're going, and they're going, and they're going, and then finally... And John Houston directed this movie. It's brilliant. There's this scene that just resonates with so many times where the river has gotten really low, and so Humphrey Bogart is pulling them through the river, and he's covered in leaches. Then finally, the weeds just get too thick, and they feel like, We'll never get to the main river.

We're going to die here. They resign that it's over and they get back in the boat, and he takes the leaches off of them, peels them off, and then they just cover under a blanket, and they've lost. The camera pans up, and you can see that they're about 20 feet from the river. That always me. That has happened to me so many times in my life where I didn't know how close I was. What happens is overnight it rains, and their boat just floats onto the river. But I think about that, just that image a lot, which is you got close to saying, Well, this isn't going to happen. If you could pan up, you'd be like, No, you are seconds from being there. You just didn't know.

I needed that message. B, thank you. Yes. I didn't. I really didn't. I felt like all the time that I had put into this thing that I loved, and I love it. I really love it. I love it still. To not feel like I was getting to do it, you know what I mean? Was really tough to wrestle with and make peace with. I didn't want my... I've said this since the beginning. I'm like, The minute, and I do mean the exact minute that I no longer enjoy this, I will go find something else to do. I was just feeling this fear and this worry, really, that I couldn't love this, this idea of just trying to make something happen that maybe God, the universe, reverse energy, whatever we're calling it, was telling me very clearly, No, this is not for me. Then when that happened, it made me think of that quote from The Godfather. It's like, Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in. I tried to get out and I was like, No, you're supposed to be doing this. It came right in the minute that I needed it to happen, like I said.

It was not something that I had any expectation of other than the 2-3 episodes that I was to come on to do. That felt like enough when I got them, too. When I did two episodes, I was like, That was enough. They're like, We're going to see you back. I was like, Oh, my gosh, I'm going to get to do that third episode. Awesome. You know what I mean? I was cool with that. It was totally enough. Then it became more than enough. I was like, Wow. Just blown away.

Then what really happens in the showbiz cycle is then nothing becomes enough. What? You call this first class? I can't lie down completely. It is there as a sick thing. I've witnessed. God bless, and it's never happened to me. More tea, please. Then later, you get to, you play Shirley Chisholm, just this great historic character, and you get an Emmy for that as well. Wild. Like I say, when it starts to rain, it really pours. To me, because so much of this book is about your mom and getting strength from your mom and perspective from your mom and reading your mom's journals and going back and reading after she passed her journals. There's a part where you're reading her journal and she's writing in her journal. You didn't know this at the time, but man, I'm really worried about who's so. I don't know that she's going to make it. She would to leave food, put food in your refrigerator?

Yeah. After I moved, I'm reading these true stories, reading these journals, and it's like she's in there just constantly. This path that I've chosen, she's praying. The thing I think is it's praying Every night. She's like, I pray every night. I'm ending your journal. It's like, That Uso, also, I'm worried about Uso. She never calls me. She needs money. She called today, and I gave her what I had. It's like she stressed out. She would come up the first time she came when I moved New York, and I didn't have anything. I was waiting tables. I didn't have anything in my fridge. She was like, Where is your food? I was like, I just eat at work. It's fine. They give a pre-meal. I don't know if any of you guys waited tables, pre-meal. They give you a pre-meal there. I was like, They give me pre-meal there, and so I eat that. In the morning, I just have a little oatmeal or some couple of hard-boiled eggs. It's fine. Right before she's leaving, she took me to the Stop & Shop. I was in Queens. She took to the Stop & Shop over there in Sunnyside, on the Astoria Line, which is a big grocery store.

She was like, Get whatever you want. I was like, No, I'm fine. She's like, Whatever you want. She would come and either bring food from home or help me stock up my fridge because she was like, I can't do much, but I can do this. Would just contribute in that way. I'm forever grateful. My mom was an amazing lady. I just need to go on record as having said that she was not a good mother. She was an excellent mother.

Well, I mean, that's such a big part of this book, talking about that. You said your mom was not a tall woman. She's like 5 feet tall. Yeah. But she seemed really tall to you.

A huge She was a giant to me. In my child memory, and probably because I'm like 2 feet, but I'm looking up at her. You know what I mean? I don't think it was until well, well, well adulthood that I realized it was like, You're? Not only are you not tall, you're actually short. You're small. She was wearing incredibly high platform.

She got these Elton John shoes. That's right. The Elton John estate sale. That's right.

She wore them to intimidate. Took them off when we were all… Yeah, she was that. But she was like, spunky and had such a big personality. I I was trying to be... I'm the big, big personality, too, in my house and would talk and be like, No, we need to do it this way. My mom's number one comment to me all the time was, Ouzo, there's only one captain on this ship, and you're looking at her. That's her go-to line.

What's interesting is you talk about so much... People always think they need to change or mold themselves to make it when sometimes, for example, like the way that you said, I was interested in changing your name when you were younger, you were interested or you had people tell you early on in acting, you've got this gap in your teeth, you should probably do something about that. There are a lot of people who go through these cosmetic changes to try and fit into something that someone else thinks they should fit into. But now that whole idea just seems crazy.

It does. I can't imagine if I had done that. Frankly, for me, there were so many pictures of me when I look at myself as a small kid. I just did not smile because I was so conscious of my gap. I'd do this closed-mouth smile. My mom would always be like, smile, smile, smile. Then my senior year, I had a photographer for my senior yearbook portrait. You know when you get your senior pictures, it's the fancy one. We had the outside guy come and do the yearbook picture. Every time we'd be talking, I'd be smiling. Then as soon as he picked up the camera to shoot, I'd close my mouth and not smile. He's just like, Why do you keep doing that? What's that about? I was like, I don't like my smile. He was like, Really? I think you have a beautiful smile. I didn't smile in that picture, but I did immediately the rest of that school year start smiling. Even now, when I walk on carpets and I'm supposed to give face or whatever, I find myself wanting to smile, and it's because I want to make up for these lost smiles.

I feel like it's such an identifier for who I am. If I change that, that's so much of my ancestry in this space. Between my teeth, it's who I am. It's the smile my aunt has. It's the smile my great aunt had. It's a smile so many of my cousins have. We call it my mother's maiden name, Anyonku Gap. I would have taken a piece of myself away. Now I just wear it proudly. When asked to take it out, in the beginning of my career, I had a choice. There was an early part of my life when I wanted to really fit in and thought taking away the parts me that made me unique would make me better. At this stage of my life, when I was approached with this idea of closing my gap, I really understood that the parts of myself that made me unique are actually what make me better.

It takes a little bit of living to figure that out. For sure. I had this experience where Mike Wallace, the great journalist and host of 60, one of the lead hosts of 60 Minutes, he was on our show once. This has been much commented on, I'm not just white, I'm translucent. I go beyond white. I'm a whole other thing. A side effect of one of that is that I have this vein underneath my eye that you can see. I remember I was talking to the great Mike Wallace, and we're having this interview, and then I Okay, well, we'll take a break. We have more with Mike Wallace right after this. Bam. Mike Wallace just takes his finger and he reaches over, and he puts it on the vein underneath my eye, and he said, What are you going to do about out that. Jesus. The thing is, he wasn't being mean. Yes, he was. Well, no. I know what you're doing. I have a lot of respect for Mike Wallace, and he was very nice to me. What he was doing was just saying, as a guy who had been in broadcasting since the 1940s or '50s, he was just saying, Oh, yeah, that's something you're going to…

Because I was early in my career, he was probably saying like, Oh, yeah, so what do we do about that? Is there a makeup you can put on or something? Or can you get rid of it? I thought, Well, I think it's supplying blood to my brain. I could just see going to a surgeon and having it removed, and I'm just like, Welcome to the whole That section of the speaking part of my occipital lobe is gone. But, man, his eyes look good. But, yeah, I just remembered thinking, there are all these things about me. I had a weird name growing up and looked a little different and wasn't sure where I fit in. I'm like an Irish Catholic kid, but I don't really like sports. I like to read and I I have a weird brain. I remember just thinking like, I don't know where I fit in the whole thing. But then later on, those things become, Oh, thank God. I mean, I'd still like to fix the vein.

But what are you going to do about that?

I'm having it removed tomorrow. But I know it's interesting that there are many different forms that can take for lots of different people who are listening that if you can ride it out, those things... I think, unfortunately, social media and also the rise of all these different cosmetic surgeries or injections people can get has... I see so many people that have clearly injected their lips, injected their faces, done things, and they just look like everybody else now. I think, Well, that's too bad.

I love character. I really do. I love those little touches, whether it's in the face, in the hair, in the mouth, whatever. That just makes you look, stand in a different way. I actually think those things make you more interesting in a beautiful way, personally. That's my thoughts on it.

Well, I disagree. I think you're out of your mind. In the book, you mentioned that as the years go by, you think more and more about maybe, would you visit or would you maybe move back to Nigeria? When I say move back to, I mean, you're born here, but you think about maybe going back to that country for a while?

I do think about that. Like repatriate there? Yeah, I do think. I do. I really do. I do. It was something I used to say back here in the back of my head, abstractly, that I wanted to do with my kids. When I have them and now that my daughter is here, I do think about that because I think about the line of connection for me to the country was direct from my parents who lived there the whole lives and then immigrated. To the US. Then when I think about her, for just a section of time, I would like to because it's like she's now once more removed. I want her to be steep. It's more about I don't I don't want to lose the culture for her, but then I also don't want to lose it for me. I think especially now that both my parents are gone, it's a way, almost like a socket of plugging in for a little bit and getting a charge that maybe will be enough to last me the rest of my life. But I also do know in having something that I'm learning right now in real-time, especially with motherhood, is that they're with me still.

My mom, I was so nervous. When I was pregnant, there were times where I was wondering, How am I going to do this? Am I going to know what to do? My mom's not here. Who's going to show me how to do this? The reality is that I've come to learn is that she soaked me in who she is and put so deeply into each of us, my siblings and I, so much of her belief system, her values, foundation, how to mother, that a lot of it does come out, even if she's not here. So yes, I want to go back. This is a super long answer, but it's like, yes, I want to go back. But if I don't, I also do simultaneously know that I'm soaked in it still. Yeah.

I had a experience not too long ago where I was shooting this travel show for Max, and we went back to Ireland and my brother, through the help of my brother Justin, and we also used this really good genealogist in Ireland. Between the two of them, they figured out exactly where my town was that my great grandfather came from. I was thinking, I'm not going to feel much. We're going to go and we're going to see a field where... My Why people had no money and they were tenant farmers, and they worked on this tenant farm in Galbally. I was just not expecting to feel anything. I've been to Ireland a bunch of times, but I thought, Okay, I'm just going to see a piece of land that I don't really have any connection to. They took me there and we have it on camera, but I was blown away by how powerful it was to stand and think, Oh, they were here. Then in one day, this This Thomas O'Brien, I think, just looked out and said, We got to get out of here. Like an idiot, I was looking at the gorgeous mountains and everything saying, Why did they leave?

And this woman said, You can't eat the view. They didn't have any food. They had to go. And so he just struck out. Now I'm back and I've got a camera crew, drones, producers standing around. I flew here on a... It's insane that I'm coming back in this way. I was surprised because the sentimentality of it and the power of it was a bit of a shock to me. I didn't think that was going to happen, and it does.

See, and I believe that.

I think you're going to feel that way when you come with me to Ireland and look at that piece of dirt. It's going to be very powerful for you.

Almost like the African summit.

I love a special where I take Uzo to my town in Ireland and try and like a lot of probing, like how do you feel? Is it hitting you? No. I mean, it's a feel, but no, this isn't Nigeria. Yeah, but isn't it the same? No.

Not at all.

Wouldn't your mom be proud that you came back to Galboli, Ireland? No. Who is this idiot, Cohnan?

No.

Wow. Yeah. Well, I'm, first of all, blown away that you wrote this beautiful book and shared because it's a gift to people. There are a lot of people out there who don't understand. They look at what you've accomplished and they think, well, she caught her break, or they don't see the whole arc. I think it's really a big part of this podcast is I want people to understand how much all of us have in common and that there's a lot of insecurity, a lot of frustration, there's a lot of ups, there's a lot of downs. And your book chronicles so much of that. I think it's going to be a tonic for a lot of people out there. Good for you.

Thank Thank you very much. Thank you very much for that. Thank you for having me today, too.

Well, I just thought I'd probably get a free book.

That's why you did this. Well, as a metna.

That's the only reason I did.

I only book people if they're going to bring me free... You took your watch off. I could take that watch. She gave us books. What's that?

She gave Sona and I a free book.

Yeah, I saw that. We got books. Yeah. Plus, beautiful jewelry and watches.

So much jewelry. There was free trips to places. We're going to I'm in Nigeria with you.

Yeah, exactly. You're going from here to visit the Obamas.

It said, Don't tell Konan.

Actually, the three of us are going to Ireland without you.

We're going to Galvalier.

They're going to Hawaii to visit the Obamas. The Obamas just... But Konan is not coming, right? No, he's not coming. Okay, fine. Well, Uso, thank you so much for being here. The book is The Road is Good, and it's fantastic, and it's out in just a few days. Do yourself a favor and grab it because it's a terrific It's a perfect story, and it made me feel really good reading it. And thanks for being here. Thank you.

This was awesome.

It's only awesome when an awesome person comes. That's true. It is true. Thank you. I can't take non-awesome and get it to awesome. I just can't. I can't. I don't have that power. I do not have that power. Okay, it's time to do a segment here on the podcast. Do you know what a segment is? Usually, we have an idea of what it's going to be. It's like, Oh, let's review the reviewers. Oh, pretty good. Yeah, one of your little trickaroos, one of your... Yeah, It's some category, if you will. But today, we really don't have an idea. There was nothing loaded up. And so Sona had the idea, Let's just do some verbal jazz. Let's just start riffing, talking. And the three of us, because we're great verbal tacticians, musicians, will find it just in the groove. So this is Verbal Jazz with Konan, Sona, and Matt. And we're just going to start talking about things. We're going to find it. We're going to find a great rhythm, and people are going to say, Hey, I love that. These guys can take empty air and turn it into atonal jazz. As you can tell, I don't love jazz.

But we're just talking here. We're just talking about what's going on in our lives. Sona, how are you? Yeah, I'm cool, man. You're wearing the same old Quarteroy shirt you wear all the time? That's denim. Close to Quarteroy.

I don't know what you're talking about.

I just said something. It's verbal jazz. It's verbal jazz.

It's chilly in this studio.

Very cold. It's very hot outside.

It's hot as balls outside.

But I think they overdid it on the air conditioning here. I disagree.

I have to say. It's so hot that I'm still burning from having been out there an hour ago. It's so nice and cool in here.

Well, it's really hot where you live, I have to say, in Pasadena. Of course, you live in Altadina, and you're at a higher altitude. It might be a little cooler for you, but Pasadena, oh, that's a frying pan over here. You're not kidding? No, I'm not kidding. This isn't a joke. This is just verbal jazz. We're serious. We're just,. Really hot out there. If you cracked an egg on the sidewalk right now, it would scream. Oh, that's it. I see what you did.

That's an egg?

Yeah, it was verbal jazz. It was fizzling.

Okay.

How come you didn't get it?

I did. What's this? The bass.

Here, I'll do a transition from Seinfeld.

Who are these people?

This is terrible. I was going to say we're doing so well so far. Can I say something? I think the minute I misidentified, misgendered your shirt and said- Which is male? I said Corderoy instead of denim. I I don't know my cheap materials that well. Wow. I know all my silks. In a thread bear T-shirt.

Oh, please.

I don't wear your cotton shirt.

This isn't a T-shirt. I just painted my bear chest. Verbal jazz. Verbal jazz. Not as good as having something worked out ahead of time.

Were you doing a boom, boom, boom bass? But isn't it a boom, boom, boom, boom, boom bass?

Yeah. It depends, man. Not if you're Oscar Pastore.

Yeah, that's right.

Who? Oscar Pastore.

No. Oscar Pastore. The former- Yeah, the- The Blade Runner. Killed us. Went to prison for- Killed us.

Murder. Jazz.

Jazz. Purple Jazz. Hey, you don't know what? Hey, we're on the weather one minute. Then it's Oscar Pistorius. You never know, man. Who's thinking about that guy?

Let's get back to Patrick Dempsey in Outbreak.

Wasn't that in the intro? Yeah, that was in a different intro.

I know, but same episode, bitches. You know what? It's the same episode. I don't know. I just called back a rift from the beginning of the show. You know what?

I just realized he's really the only professional. He was working in podcast for a long time before us. He's the guy that puts all these things together. You're constantly fucking up. Yeah. Calling back references that are from an episode that we take from the same day.

Are you saying this segment got fucked up somehow? Say what about pepper?

Also, he's not the only professional. You were in broadcasting for 30 years.

Have you seen what I did? Does anyone think I was a professional? No, not once has anyone said, Hey, you're that professional from the television. That's never happened. Everyone, I look like someone- You're a professional amateur. Yeah, exactly. I am. You are. I refuse. I refuse to be a professional. Jazz, verbal jazz. I think, look, like jazz itself, I don't know if this is good or bad what we're doing. I know that I've been charged a cover fee to be in here. I'm having a drink. I don't understand it, but I see a lot of people around me snapping their fingers. So maybe it's good. Blake, how do you feel this is going so far? Well, you know what? I think Miles Davis once said, there's no wrong notes. There's no wrong notes in jazz. It's more what comes after it. It's context, man. Yeah, I guess it's... Do you want my honest opinion? Yeah.

No.

This is unusable. It's terrible. It is terrible. It's terrible. But you do have the rift going of you say then it's jazz, so it's on life support. I don't think we've really hit the point of which it's a real segment yet. Are you serious? This feels all like prolog. I agree.

That's the thing about jazz. There's not a hook. There's not a melody per se.

There's nothing that would make you want to listen to it. No, there's hooks in jazz.

Eduardo is upset because he actually likes jazz, and you're shitting on jazz.

I cannot take this slander anymore.

I can't even.

Wait a minute. I'm talking about the basketball team. Oh, Utah Jazz. Okay. I'm not a fan. That's what I've been meaning the whole time. As a music form, jazz? Fantastic. My favorite. You can't name a jazz song or performer I don't love. Utah Jazz? Don't Get Me Started. They're atonal, arrhythmic, and hard to listen to. Okay, fair.

Jazz.

We'll be right back. Wow, unusable.

Conan O'Brien needs a friend. With Conan O'Brien, Sonum of Cessian and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross, and nick Leal. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our Supervising producer is Erin Blair, and our Associate Talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and Mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brenda Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnik. Talent Booking by Paula Davis, Gina and Brit Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Konan? Call the Team Coco Hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It, too, could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at siriusxm. Com/konan. If you haven't already, please subscribe to Konan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.