Transcript of La La Anthony: Life After Professional Athletes (FBF)

What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy.

La La, welcome to "Call Her Daddy."

First of all, can we address the glasses? Okay.

Okay, let's talk about it.

So I came in here with glasses on, and I was like, "Oh, you're wearing my stylist hoodie, local love club."

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's my stylist. I was like.

Joanna Knave.

Yes, I love her.

I love her so much. I honestly, like, woke up this morning and was like, it's raining, it's a Monday, I need to feel cozy. And then you just walked in and you were like, "Let's level that shit up."

Can I keep my sunnies on?

And I love you because you were like.

No, no, I didn't. No, no, no. I said when I walked in, I was like, "If I wear my sunglasses, are people going to be like, 'Where the fuck does this bitch think she's going?'" And then you were like, "Well, I'll wear some too." And I was like, "Fine." So we're just going to both wear sunglasses the whole interview.

And now we're just, we're vibing on a different frequency now. Everything feels a little bit better. The lights are better.

No, but it was crazy when we walked in. You said it was so bright. It was crazy. Okay, so we're on a different frequency now.

So now we're here. Okay, so now I need to introduce you because there's so many things to say about you. I'll try to keep it short, but you can't. You got your start in radio, obviously. Look how much of a natural.

Yes.

Let's, I kind of want to go back to the beginning a little bit because I think it's helpful for people to feel extremely connected to your story, right? You start working at 15 years old, your first internship. How the fuck did you get the internship? How did you get your foot in the door? Please tell us the story.

Okay, so I, I always love music. That's my thing. I love, love music. Back in the day, day, day, we're not going to talk about it too much. I thought I was going to be a rapper, but that was like back in the day. So I was like.

Give us like a little something.

Oh my God, no, you'll die. You'll be like, "Keep me out of here now." So I thought I was going to be a rapper. And so I just love music. And I remember going to the opening of this music store and I saw these people like putting up posters. Remember back in the day, it was different when albums came out, like there would be posters everywhere and stuff everywhere. So I was like, "Who are these people doing that?" And I came up to them and I was like, "Who do you guys work for? Like, what are you doing?" Because I thought it looked like so cool, especially as a teenager, like 15 years old. So they were like, "Oh, we work at this radio station and we're interns."

Why not?

I live in a hood and I know how to get a fake ID. So I got a fake ID and then I got the job as an intern, lying, saying I was older than I really was. But that's the only time kids, where a lie can work in your favor. And then I just started working at the radio station. And from there, interning, I got on the radio. And then I moved to LA to be on the radio. And then from there, I got my MTV job and I started hosting TRL, which everyone knows. Started doing that.

I also love how so casually, I think there's so many young women that listen to this show that are like, may currently be an intern. And you just like slid that in. Like, so I went from being an intern, then all of a sudden I'm a radio person. I'm like, "Hold on, hold on." You just skipped a huge step. How the fuck did you go from intern putting posters on the wall to then being a radio personality?

So just working really hard. Like I just worked really, really hard at it. And I was like, "Whatever I do, I don't care if I'm just putting this water here. I'm going to be the best at putting the water here. Like I'm just going to be great." I just made myself available. I worked really hard. And I had a personality. So they were like, "We like your personality." Like there's two guys on the radio. At that time it was Ludacris, but his name back then was Chris Leva Leva. So they were like two guys, him and Poon Daddy. They were like, "They need a girl on their show. Like nobody wants to hear just two guys going back and forth all day." I was like, "I can do it."

Okay, we all need to have that energy because I'm like, "Oh my God, it'd be so intimidating." You're like, "What the fuck? I deserve to be there. I had the personality for it."

Even if I was intimidating, nobody else was going to know it.

You're going to fake it.

Yeah, you got to fake it till you make it. Even if I felt like that, which I'm sure at different times I did, I was like, "This is my way out." It was bigger than, it was bigger than a job for me. It was about survival. It was about like having money in my pocket to live. Like it was deeper than like, "Oh, I just want this cool job." It was like, "I need this job so I can afford my apartment, so I can get food for myself, so I can take care of myself and ultimately take care of my family." Like it was bigger to me.

Totally.

Like when the purpose is bigger, your drive is different.

Yeah, you like you just see straight. Like you can't, you don't even look back. You're like, "I got to go forward."

Exactly.

So you're still a teenager. You go to, you leave Atlanta, you go to LA. I love how you're like 17 at the time. Had you ever been to LA?

No, I'd never been to LA before. I didn't have money to like travel and do stuff like that. I would hear about LA, but I had never been there. The thing about it is like when I, when I lived in New York, I was born and raised in Brooklyn. But during this radio time, I was in Atlanta. My mom had moved us to Atlanta. But like you would hear about LA, but it just felt like this distant land somewhere that like, yeah, I know like famous people live there, but it's not a place that you ever thought like you would go to or anything like that. So when I got the job in LA, because I had sent my radio tape to different places, when I got the job in LA, when I got off the plane, that was my first, I was moving to LA, getting off the plane, that was my first time being in LA.

Did you know anyone?

No.

Were you?

Who the hell would I know in LA? I didn't, I didn't talk to people. I was like, my circle was New York and Atlanta.

Damn. So what, when do you remember personally being like, "This is my big break. Like I just made it"?

I felt like that with LA because Atlanta, as big of a market it is, radio wise, it was a smaller market than LA. New York is one, LA is two. When it comes to radio, so I was like, "I'm about to be in the number two market. Like this is crazy." And when they called me to give me the job, they were like, "Well, how much money are you making?" And I remember at that time I was making like, no lie, I was making like $18,000 a year. And I was like, "Um, um, I, I make like $30,000 a year." Like I just said something. And they were like, "Oh, well, this job is offering like $90,000 a year."

We're like La La. This is literally the whole episode is like La La lie.

Through and through. I keep lying. A lot about my age, a lot about how much I was making. All good lies.

All good.

All good lies.

All good to get you through the door.

Yes, exactly.

A little white lie with that can't hurt anybody.

Yes. So then I got on the radio in LA and then I was on the radio doing really good out there. And then one day, now this day I remember clear, I walked into the radio station and the receptionist says to me, "Somebody from MTV called for you." I was like, "Call for me for what?" They were like, "I don't know. They want to talk to you." And it was like the little post-it with like the number. So I called, I was like, "Hey, this is La La. Like somebody said you guys are looking for me." They were like, "Yeah, we want to meet with you. We just heard a lot about you from the radio. We've heard you on the radio. We thought you were really cool.

Dude, it's so crazy because I was talking to Kate earlier.

I want to see your legs allow.

We're like, "Okay, now we're like less."

I know, I know.

La La slid to my face 10 times already. We're like, "Let's just do it." Okay, we're done. We're done. The shtick is over. We're moving forward so we can see each other. Hello, bright lights. Okay, Kate and I were talking about TRL.

Yes.

And to the Gen Zers listening, just shut the fuck up for a minute because you need to be humbled and listen to what TRL was because I remember I have an older sister and I would, she'd be like running home from school, like, "Come on, Alex, we got to go. We got to watch." And it was like the biggest thing to watch when you're looking at breakout artists or like Christina Aguilera coming on and you're just like, "Holy fucking shit. This was the thing."

It was huge for all artists. And then like it was in New York, it was in Times Square. So everyone in high school at that time wanted to rush to Times Square to stand out there to see like who's going to be in the infamous like window where you would wave from. And you had everybody, like you said, Beyoncé and then actors, Will Smith would come, Tom Cruise. I mean, at that time in sync and it was like Justin Timberlake and no, it was crazy.

That's so cool. I think like hearing about your career is always incredible to hear, especially from a woman just like battling to get to the top. And like what's a setback that you remember facing early in your career? Obviously it wasn't all roses and like get on the flight, move to LA, get the job, happiness. And like how did you overcome it?

Well, I think a lot of my struggles came coming out of MTV because MTV was so big that you were always told like, "That's it. That's your peak. This is it. Like it doesn't get any bigger than this." And you would kind of see MTV VJs come and go and then it would be like, "Whatever happened to so and so?" Or they would have these specials like going back down memory lane and you'd be like, "What happened to?" And I was like, "Oh no, like after this job, it's not going to just be over for me. Like that's just not going to be the only thing that I'm known for."

I think that's a very relatable concept of like people wanting to put things in boxes and you're trying to pivot because you want to pivot and you want to do something different. And it's like, "No, no, no, you have to stay in that lane." I was going to ask though, like as a woman of color in the industry, especially when you were just starting out and you didn't have this status, did you face discrimination?

Well, it was different, but it was, it was interesting for me because I was at MTV, but all of my friends and people in the business were at BET. And I was like, it was like 106 and Park. And then there was like TRL. And I used to feel like I kind of want to be over there. Like that's more my music, that's my culture, that's who I am. But then I was like, maybe I have a responsibility here to bring my culture, more of my music, diversity to MTV and put them on to like, these are the songs we're listening to.

That's really cool because I feel like a big theme so far already. What you're saying is like every time you've walked in doors, like you're like, "No, I'm going to, even if I don't feel it immediately, I'm going to pretend I deserve to be here." And it's like a mentality thing, even if you don't feel it all the time, which I think is important no matter what you're doing in your life. It's like, just pretend you fucking deserve it.

And it's even if like on bad days, we're all entitled to them. We all have them. But it's like certain jobs, and I hate to say it, but certain jobs, they don't care about a bad day. So it's like, fake it, fake it, fake it. Then go home, talk to your friends, your family, your therapist, whatever you need to do. But in that moment, like act like you're okay sometimes, even when you're not. And then deal with it in the moments that you give yourself to deal with it.

This is a stressful industry to be in and you've got to be on and you've got to be ready. Have you ever experienced burnout?

Always. I'm always burned out. I'm always tired. And I'm not good at the balance, which that's not a great thing. I mean, you have to be able to have balance. I always feel guilty when I'm like not working or having fun or even on vacation. Like I just feel like, "Oh, I got more work to do. What am I doing? Why am I hanging out?" Then I'm on Instagram and it seems like everybody's on vacation all the time. I'm like, "How the hell do you guys go on this many trips? Like I don't go anywhere." I'm like, "I need to go on more trips."

I feel like either one, I feel like I'm always behind when I'm looking at Instagram. I'm like, "Wait, like why do these people know about this thing?" Or I'm like, "Why is everyone relaxing on the beach?"

Always.

Because when I go, I feel like so stressed, but are they actually relaxing on the beach? Because then when you're relaxing on the beach, you're not actually relaxed on the beach. You're like, "What the fuck is true and what's not?"

It's all a facade. It's all an illusion.

It is a complete illusion. Before I even obviously met you, I was trying to just get on a phone call with you, just quickly say hi. And I was like, it's like 8 o'clock at night and they were like, "Hey, everybody, La La is not available because she's at Rikers." And I was like, "Holy fuck." No, I was like, "That seems way more important than me just being like, 'Hey girl, like see you tomorrow.'" Like it's just like, yeah, I was like, "Go fuck myself. I'll see you in the studio. I really appreciate what you're doing. Can you explain how you got into it and like what are you doing?"

Well, it's only because you can't, for those of you who have never been inside a prison or a jail before, you cannot have your cell phone.

I need to clarify, I was not that eager.

But I was like, otherwise I would be like, "What's up?" You can't have your cell phone. Which by the way, you don't realize how hard it is to go eight, nine, ten hours without your phone. Like it's good for me because we're so attached. And I'm like, I realize that this attachment is not healthy. But so yeah, Rikers, I work a lot in the RNDC building, which is generally 18 to 21, so the younger population. And there was a pastor that was running an initiative called Fatherless No More. His name is Pastor Tim Johnson, who I love.

It's really incredible what you're doing. It seems like you're such a good mother. You're a great person and you're a great friend. And I talk about it a lot in my podcast of I have a lot of young women that write in, which I'm like, I totally feel you on this. Like friendship, it ebbs and flows. It's some of the most beautiful relationships you can have because you aren't sleeping with this person, hopefully. Hopefully. You never know. But like it's a genuine two-way street and at times it's not always going to be 50-50.

I think if you were going to ask my friends, they would say like, "I'm very caring, loving. I'm a cancer. Like we're super loving, we're super emotional. We're, when we love, we love hard." But I'm also honest, like my thing, even going back to the young men at Rikers, like I always say, you know, no judgment. Like I'm not here to judge you. I'm going to give you real advice, but I'm not here to judge you. And if I say something, you might not agree with or don't like, it's not because I'm judging you. I'm just giving you the real. So I think it's the same with my friends. Like when they ask me advice, they know I'm going to give them real advice coming from love, not like judgment.

I really respect that because I think some people can't take the honesty. And I feel like a lot of times I'm similar in friendships where I'm like, "I know this is going to upset you, but do you want me to lie to you?" And be like, "Sweetie, you're totally in the right. You're fine." Like that's not me being a good friend. And I feel like it's good sometimes to have people around like you being like, "You can cry and I'll hold you while you cry." But it's going to be from the information I'm about to tell you, but it's just me being honest. And I don't see why. I don't know. I think it's like look inward if you don't want people to tell you the truth because it's like work on yourself.

And I'm also not like, I'm competitive, like, but not meaning I don't want what you have. I know what's for me is for me. That's also the issue with a lot of friendships and stuff. It's like competition or jealousy. Like I think there's enough for everyone. Like what I'm doing is not going to be the same as what you're doing. Or if we do the same thing, how you do it, how I do it is going to be different. Like I don't get involved in that. I want all of my friends and anyone I care about to win. I want to see everybody do good. I'm like cheerleading from the sidelines for everybody.

Everyone's going to have their successful moments and everyone's going to have the lulls where they're down on themselves. And it's like, why hold any of your friends back? If anything, it's great to surround yourself with people that are thriving and succeeding rather than feeling like jealous. I love that. How do you know when it's time to end a friendship?

Ooh, I think that you'll know when it's, you know, I think it's time to end a friendship when it's no longer making you feel good. I think it's the same thing with a relationship. A friendship is a relationship. Like when it's no longer making you feel good and it's causing you stress and agony and sadness, then it's time to let it go. Like the world right now is stressful enough. Day-to-day life in this world is stressful enough. So your friendships, your relationships, anyone in your life should be adding positivity. Not saying again that they're not going to tell you what you want to hear.

I agree. And I think there's moments where every friendship, if it's a good friendship, you will have hardships. Like that's weird if you've never had a tip. Like, "Oh, you're best friends." Well, then is it a real relationship? Because like we're humans, we're going to go through shit. But I appreciate when there's times to work through shit. And then there's time to be like, "This is not healthy." And to find that balance.

Especially when you start seeing a pattern. If there's a pattern, then you're like, "Okay, this is who this person is. I might need to exit stage left."

When your friends come to you for advice, I'm thinking like, I feel like everyone has that person in a friend group. Like, what are people like, "I'm going to La La for this." Like, what is your go-to? They're looking for guidance. They go to you for.

Probably relationships. And I don't know why I'm not even in a relationship. My marriage is, my marriage did not succeed. I don't know how I'm the relationship expert. I always tell, I told a friend of mine the other day, I go, "I don't know why everybody wants to ask me about relationships. I need to be asking them about. I'm not even in a relationship." Maybe they're like, "I don't know. Our shit fucked up so bad. We want to make sure that doesn't happen to us."

They're like, "So give us the guideline of what not to do, La La." No, but I think you mentioned it.

Don't be with an athlete. No, it's a joke.

Just kidding, guys.

Just kidding, guys. Love you all.

No, I love you all too. No, I've talked so much like healthy, I think, shit on the athletes I've dated in the past.

No, no, no, no. We don't want to talk bad about athletes.

No, no, no. And I think it's actually more, which I would like to clarify, in the past, I think it's too easy almost as a joke because.

It's like the.

They're giving it to us at times. Do you know what I mean? And I think that it's one, there's times where it could be maybe a stigma that's not there. Like, I'm sure accountants are cheating. You know what I mean? Like, I know our dentists are getting after it.

Just don't hear about it as much.

Yes, yes.

Exactly.

So I did want to ask you, there is a New York Times article about you from 2011 and you were described as the first lady of the NBA. I'm in the presence of a goddess, okay? The king herself. You were the original NBA couple.

Well, we see how that turned out.

La La's like, "Hold on."

They probably won't even let me in games anymore. So there goes your first lady, guys.

Goodbye. You were the original. Are we back? Are we back? For the athlete section, we're like, "Hold on, let us just tighten up." You were the original NBA power couple.

Yeah.

Was it hard to have eyes on you during the beginning of your ex-husband's career? Like all these people interested in your life, et cetera?

Yeah, that was hard for us. That was hard for us. I feel like when we moved to New York, because we came from Denver at the time, we moved to New York. I was from New York, so being back in New York is nothing new. But when we lived here under all of that, that's when things became complicated. I think that was kind of the start. Now that I look back, that was kind of the start of the demise of the marriage.

I dated a New York athlete and I do remember.

I need to Google you later.

Don't do that. But I do think that there's something people always say, like, "If you can make it in New York as an athlete, you can make it anywhere." But I think there's also a different connotation of like, yeah, because it's the hardest to deal with.

It's the hardest.

And it comes with a lot.

With the scrutiny and the media and the press and just everything. It is really, really hard. That's not the only reason things didn't work out, but things got tough with New York. And like you were saying, just constantly being under the spotlight, people watching every little thing. And then, you know, being in New York, I don't know, like Denver was so like laid back. New York, it's like, I got to get on my grind. Then I started really like going overdrive with my career and wanting things to go that way. So it's like, he's doing his thing, I'm doing mine.

And how old were you guys when you met? How did you meet?

So funny. There was a DJ named DJ Clue. Yeah, shout out Clue, who was like, "I got this guy who really wants to meet you. He's seen you on MTV before." And he's 19 years old. I was like, "Okay, 19 at that time was 22." Yeah, I was just like, "That's kind of young." I mean, when you're, you know, okay, what happens is here's how it goes. This is what I'm finding. I don't understand this.

No, it's a real thing.

But okay, but we got to go back. We'll get to that.

Yeah, because we do have to.

But I don't get what this thing is like.

No, it's a real thing.

The older you get, the younger the guys get, and it's wild. But okay. So he was 19 and I was like, "Cool." And I was like, "I don't want to be with an athlete." Back then, even back then, I was like, "I'll never be that. I'd never, never, never, never, never." Should have listened to myself then.

What was your type of time?

Street guys. Just guys that I probably shouldn't be with either, but that was more my flow. I love a street guy back then. Not anymore, guys. So I was like, "I just don't want to." But we became friends and that's the thing. We were friends for a while and then friendship turned into more and we had some great times. I mean, we have a beautiful son, Kian, who's amazing. Like it wasn't all bad. Like we had great, great times. It ended bad, but we're still, you know, friends and we co-parent great. So it wasn't all bad. And I think that, you know, life is just about lessons and going through different phases.

What was your biggest misconception about dating an athlete? Because I was, I always like to write my questions and then think, "Well, what would the fuck my answer be?"

Let me take my glasses off now. Back to it. Back to it.

Back to it. Okay.

No misconceptions because everything I thought turned. Like you want to be like, "Oh, they're not all like this or all like that."

Sure, they are.

And I'm like, "Wow."

Check.

Check.

Check. Because my thought when I was writing that, I was like, "Okay, my misconception was in the like not committed dating phase, I found that I was stressed always. Like if I don't fly in, like who's he going to be with?" Whatever.

Okay, yeah, I see what you're saying.

And then once I was his girlfriend and it was committed, I thought I was like, "Oh, I'm going to sleep better at night. I'm going to be like."

Oh, no, no. I never slept.

I think there.

I never slept.

You're like, "Don't get it twisted. I may look amazing, but I did not sleep."

I never slept.

And I didn't, I almost got more stressed once we committed because I felt like, "Oh my God, now everyone's coming for me." Like people are, it was just more, it was, I guess it was my misconception. I thought, "Oh, lock it down and I'm going to be, I'm sleeping beauty."

It never ends. It never ends. And then what you'll find is like, it's so funny. I used to think like certain cities, I would be like, "Oh, those are the problem cities." Like Miami, I'll be like, "Oh, I'm definitely not sleeping tonight or I'm going to figure out a way to get there." But here's what I found out, dear. Be careful with these other cities that you think don't have as much going on because those are the ones, guys, where the shit is going down.

If anything, it's worse. I'm like, "Nothing is happening in Kentucky."

That's how I would feel. And those are the nights I would sleep a little.

And all of a sudden you're like, "Oh, no, there's a whole ass girlfriend there." Miami, it's just like, "Let's club. Let's go hang out." There is like a whole ass fucking girlfriend. I'm like.

Have you been here before? Have you been here before? You get it. So yeah.

It is a wild, I love the sleep concept is a good way to describe it.

Yes, it is.

You will be sleepless nights. And ladies, we don't need that problem.

And I'm not going to, I can't generalize everyone. I'm just talking about what I went through and people I know, but I'm sure, you know, they're great relationships. I mean, my best friend is married to an athlete and they have Sierra and Russell and incredible bond, something I've never seen before. I'm so happy to even witness it because it makes me feel like, "Oh, wow, that type of love does exist." Because I didn't think it did for a long time. I'm like, "No way." So it's not across the board.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I can only also speak to my.

Yeah, totally. What was the culture of the wives and the girlfriends? Because I remember my experience and since I was a girlfriend, people were like, "Well, you're not shit." And I was like, "I know. Like, sorry." And I thought like at first, because there were a couple like head women that were like married, that one was so nice to me because she was like, "I don't give a fuck about you. Like you're just here and whatever. Maybe you won't be the next week." Or another woman that you don't even know is sitting over there and she's also with him. I'm like, but then there were some that were like aggressive to let me know, like, "Bitch, you don't have a ring on your finger.

Well, I was a girlfriend for a long time. I didn't become a wife till way later. So I didn't really experience that. Like you just have the people you gravitate to, like you said, with you and the people that you're cordial with and that's it. So I just found like my crew, whatever, whoever that was on respective teams are like, "She's really cool. I want to hang out with her." But I tried to be cool with everybody, but there's levels to being cool. Like there's the distant, like, "Hey." Then there's the, "Call me later." Then there's the, "I fucking hate him. I'm coming to spend the night at your house." There's different like levels of cool.

No, I appreciate you saying that because I eventually found my group. Day one, I was like, "Hello?" I was like, "I'm going to go sit with the fans. Like they'll be nicer." And then I think by the, I would say like, yeah, a couple months in, I found like my crew of like, "Oh, this is my drinking buddy." And then I had the woman that was like, "Found out he's like being shady. What do I do?" And so I'm interested to know, like, do you think there was a culture of like turning a blind eye to cheating within the NBA or even just in sports in general?

Not for me, because when I saw it or found out about it, I have to worry about my own relationship, then I dealt with it. Like, yeah, I can't, my shit was falling apart. I can't worry about what everybody else has going. Like, I got to work. I got to save myself. Like my relationship, you know, we're two parents to my son. I got to make sure we're good. So that's where my focus was. But I never turned a blind eye to it. I addressed it. And ultimately, that was part of the reason why I could no longer be in the relationship anymore.

How would you handle, because I would get like messages. This is like therapeutic for me. Sorry. I'm like, so how would you deal with this? Because there's women that would message and it's like, sometimes it's not true and sometimes it's true. And like if you would have women reach out, like how did you handle that?

I think that, yes, sometimes it's not true. Sometimes it's true, but there's always something inside us that knows. Like I would see stuff and be like, "He's not an angel, but no way." But then there would be things that you're just like a little too much information or a little something that you're just like, "I don't know." Like you kind of feel it. And maybe I wasn't always right, but you just kind of can know. Yeah, your gut and you got to follow that.

Yeah, I think a lot of times my advice to anyone when you get those messages, because social media just, I guess I was going to say fucks all of us. I guess it helps us.

Right. Well, it's both.

It's like, let's not publicly let my life be over, but like slide in the DMs and let me know. Like obviously there's been situations where people don't need to take it public, but I do appreciate the message. Like I'm never going to be mad at my woman.

But everyone doesn't though. Some people, like, what do they say? Ignorance is bliss. Like some people, like, I'm happy how I am. Like as long as it's not directly affecting me or I don't feel directly disrespected, then I'm cool. I don't judge anybody. Everybody has their way. But some people don't. Like if you're having the most incredible day and your relationship feels great, like who wants to go in their DM and just see people that are miserable and want to see these relationships fail? Be like, "Oh, you know, I saw your guy the other night doing whatever." Like some people don't want to deal with that.

Do you feel now that you're kind of out of it? And again, like every relationship has such goods and such bads, but even us joking in the beginning of like the sleep I lost, I do think there's something and I had an insight of like, "Wow, like I didn't need to, I don't need to feel that way. I don't need to constantly like be calculating like this day they're going here, this day they're going there." Like you almost aren't able to completely live your life if you're constantly trying to track them down and imagine how little they think of you doing it.

Yeah, you know, and then like there is a piece in like, listen, it's pros and cons, everything. Being single now, yes. Do I sleep better and I don't have to worry about somebody cheating on me? Do whatever. But then I'm lonely sometimes. Like I want to be laid up with somebody or I want to worry about if somebody's cheating on me or not. Want to have somebody to be like, so it's like, it's pros and cons. Like when you're in a relationship, you're like, "Oh, if I was single, it would be so." It's pros and cons to both. My mom always says, and I'm sure she's heard it from a lot of people, but like single people want to be married and married people want to be single.

In what ways were you intentional about creating and maintaining your own identity separate from him?

Always, always. I was always like that. I mean, I had a career before I met him. I was on MTV when I met him. So always, I always wanted to have my own career or something. Like even if for people listening, even if it's not a career, a hobby, something you're passionate about, charity, whatever it is, just something that kind of gives you your purpose. Even just whether it's being a parent, whatever it is that you're like, "This is what I'm going to give my all to and this is what I'm going to do." Just because it's always good to have, you know, your own thing kind of going on. I think it empowers you in a way.

I also was just thinking back to something you said about like not stressing about what, like you couldn't worry because like you're worried about your relationship. And like I think something we should all take, I like personally have realized this is like I talk into a microphone every week. And there's some shit that I've said in my past and I'm like, "Fuck, like I wish I didn't say that about that person." Because I feel like recently it's really come to be obvious that like people's relationships fail, succeed. And then we watch this influx of people on the internet making these videos of like, "This is my opinion on it."

And everyone will tell you, excuse me, everyone will say what they'll do until they're in the situation. That's why it's all bullshit. When you're not in the situation, you can hyperanalyze, you can this, you can that. Oh, if I was her, I would do this until you're there. That is a whole different ball game. So I don't feed into any of that. And I don't ever want to be that person for someone else's relationship. I always say, "Whatever you decide, I will support you." This is my advice and opinion on it as someone who's been there. But whatever you want to do, I support you. And I just leave it at that.

Someone needs to come to a conclusion on their own. And if anything, they're going to resent you as a friend if you told them to leave. They're going to resent anyone but themselves. And it's like, let them do their thing because timing for people is so different. And so I don't know, I just think everyone listening, like I hold myself accountable of like saying dumb shit about like celebrities in the past of like, like as if I knew, like just shut the fuck up. And because if someone did that about my relationship, I was like, "You guys have no idea." So I think it's just a good wake-up call. We have too much access to give our opinion on stuff.

Exactly.

Write it in the goddamn group chat.

And a lot of times people give an opinion because it makes them feel better about their situation.

Absolutely.

Like, "Oh, they're just like me." Or, "She's not all that." Or whatever it is. Like they get like happiness out of seeing someone else being miserable. And that's definitely not the kind of person I am.

I would love to hear just your opinion on how you know when you're ready to end something. Because I think ending a relationship is so fucking hard. You ended your marriage. Like how did you know it was time?

Time? Same thing kind of what I said about the friendship. When I was no longer feeling great about it, sad every day, crying, like just feeling somewhat lost, not feeling loved the right way. I'm like, "I don't want this to be for the rest of my life." And I don't want my son, I have to be an example to my son seeing me, you know, sad or whatever. Like I didn't want that. And I was like, "This is just not feeling good anymore." And there was a lot of things that had been done. And I was just like, "I got to move on from this."

Do you think that if you weren't in the public eye, would you have handled the situation at all differently?

I would have still made the same decision, but it would have been less maybe pressure or less eyes on me. Like, "What's she going to do? People are saying this. And is this true?" Or whatever it is. I think it would have been less pressure maybe, but I do think I still would have came to the same conclusion because some boundaries were crossed that I just couldn't.

What's something that you've learned about yourself since the divorce?

I learned how strong I am. Like you said, when you hear friends going through stuff, it's like, "I'm never going to make it through. I'm never going to survive." And then all of a sudden you wake up and you're like, "Wait, I'm actually surviving." And I'm not saying it's not hard. Like I say it all the time, there's still very difficult moments. It's not one of those things where it's just ever just like super easy. Because again, there's a child involved, you know, my son. So, but you just find yourself getting stronger and stronger. And it's like, "What do they say?" Like, "You don't know how strong you are until being strong is your only option."

Well, I really respect that too. Because I think, listen, when you're betrayed or burned, like it's so fucking hard not to be petty. And it is like, "Oh, motherfucker, you don't even know who you're messing with." And I think that I'm sure, like I really respect that you have that outlook of like, "I have a son." And it's like that holds you almost probably accountable to be like.

Yeah, and then I don't want to do something and look back, like you said, and be like, "Why did I do that?" Or, "It wasn't even worth it. It made me feel good in that moment." Like the people who need to know, know. And that's it for me. Like I don't have to like put people on blast or like make people feel like shit. Like obviously what happened was bad enough. I don't need to add anything else.

Has your view of love changed?

Yes, it has. And I hate to say that. I hate that that's what happened, but it has. And I'll have my friends like, "You can't say that." Like I don't, I'm just like, "Love."

What do you say?

Like I just don't know if it's in the cards for me. And everyone's like, "Why would you say that? You can't have said it before. Like you can't say that." But it's like, I don't know. That's how you feel. You just feel like, "I don't even want to do this shit again." Or like, "Let's just be friends forever." Like once you start going to a different place, it gets so complicated. But I do think there's power in words and you have to manifest what you want. So me being negative about it is not good. So I'm working on saying like, "You know, what's meant for me will be." And someone's going to find me one day and love me the right way.

Can we agree that I actually fucking hate when I go through a breakup and my friends are like, "You're now going to get to find the love of your life."

Oh yeah, no, no, I don't like that.

No, no, no, I'm depressed.

I'm just, but I'm mourning.

And you should be and you should be okay with that. Like I'm like that too. Because I have friends like, and it's like, that's just not what I want to hear right now. Maybe eventually, but right now I just want you to be like, "Yeah, fuck everybody. I hate everyone." Like just be in this moment with me right now. Tomorrow we can talk about something different. But right now, let's just have this moment.

Wait, I don't need the hype up. Like put on the side music. Let's sob. I wanted to be depressed. I want to have a pity party.

I think everyone should have like a day or two of that. Like you deserve that. But then it's like, all right, snap out of it now.

But I do think there's a good thing of like it would be unrealistic for you to immediately be like, "Oh, I'm great."

Because that means you really don't really feel that.

Exactly. So it's helpful, I think, to keep it realistic. Like you said, you are honest with your friends. Maybe you're being a little too honest with yourself. You're like, "Love doesn't exist. Everybody, fuck love. We're all alone in this world. Even if you think they love you, they don't."

Oh my God.

But then I'm like, "But I'm so happy for you. You found the one."

But I do appreciate, I appreciate your realness with it. Because it's like, I hate when it's just the upside and the positive.

But you know what it is? I realize everyone's take on that is going to be based on an experience. So if you had a great experience and you're in a relationship, when I'm in a relationship, you can't tell me anything. I'm like, "What? What do you mean? Relationships are the best. Like what are you talking about?" And then when it's done, I'm like, "Fuck everybody." So it's like, it just depends on where that person you're talking to is at in their life now or not. And I respect everyone in different phases of their life. I have friends that are happily married, you know, whether it's Sierra or Kelly, like very happily married.

I'm going to have you on in like two years and you're like, "I've literally never been more in love." Like life is so good. And you're going to be like hearts in the eyes. You're like, "Relationships are for everyone." And you guys can definitely find them. It's like, you're right. It changes.

It changes.

But right now we're like, right now I'm just like, "No, fuck that." Are you dating?

Not really, to be honest. Like people think like I'm just like out here. Like I know you can have anyone you want and you're doing this and that. Like not really, because the guys are trying to talk to me are 21 and 22 years old.

Let's talk about that. Because shout out to my spray tan woman. You're the most amazing woman, Britney. God bless you. And she was telling me how everyone younger is coming after her. She's like, "Do I have a sign on my head?" Like, but what she thought was interesting when she was like, "I have these guys that are my age that like aren't really fucking doing it for me and putting in the work." And this 22-year-old is like, "Let me fly you out. Let me buy you dinner." She's like, "Can you afford to fly me out? Like what the fuck is going on?" But she was like, "It's crazy.

No, it's a good feeling. I mean, look, it's, I honestly, I don't know. I'm going to be, I'm telling you, I don't know anything about relationships anymore. I am done giving relationship advice, even to myself. I don't know. What I do know is I'm going with the flow. Like I'm not dating anyone currently. I'm not in anything serious currently. But if someone wants to take me out and I'm like, "All right, cool. I'm not just going to say before," I would be like, "No, like what's the angle? What's this?" I'm trying to be like more open about it. And whatever happens, happens.

How do you deal with like a date? Like would you go to a pub? Like you can't go to a public joint?

Well, it depends. Like.

If you want to be seen with them.

I mean, yeah, it just kind of depends. Like, I don't know. At first, I wouldn't want to be like out too public because you want to fill it out first and make sure it's even. But friendships are friendships. Like I'm allowed to be friends with people. Like, and girls and guys can go out and it could be platonic or you could just begin to know somebody. Like everything is not so heavy. And like if you don't go to public places, then where do you go? Come to my house, come to the hotel room. That to me, that's even more heavy. Like.

No, no, no, no. That is a deep flex.

So it's like for the first date, like meet me at the hotel room so no one sees us. It's kind of like.

This is catch.

Yeah. Like what tone are you setting? I don't know. I don't know. I told you, I don't know. I'm just going.

But I appreciate it.

With the flow. And everybody's different. Like you can meet somebody and be like, "All right, I'm cool going out to whatever restaurant with this person." And you might not even know why. It's just a feeling you have. Then you can meet somebody else and be like, "Oh, no, I don't want nobody to see us out." Like, I don't know. It's just a feeling. It's not like a, what I'm saying is not a one-size-fits-all.

Would you ever date an athlete again?

Would I date an athlete again? I don't know. I don't, probably not a basketball player. Probably not a basketball player.

Okay, football. Let's go. Here we go. That is fun.

Not basketball. Probably not. I mean, I don't know. We're probably not basketball.

And football is, I look at me like already.

Wait, I'm like, "Do you have somebody?" Because you're so, you got so excited. I'm like, "What's going on?"

Like the schedule's better, less, less sleepless nights.

Is that a world that you're.

No, no, but I'm just thinking for you. Like I want you to find love. I don't have anyone for you. But if I do, I'll fucking text you and be like, "I got this. I got this." But I do think there's something about, yeah, we're done with the NBA. But you know, other sports could, we could entertain.

Exactly.

Are you on dating apps?

No, I'm not on dating apps. Although I have a lot of friends on Raya and this and that, and they love it and they're dating. I don't, I haven't got there yet. Again, no judgment. It's working for a lot of people I know. As a matter of fact, my dad married the woman he met on a dating app. So I've seen where it can work. Like my dad married her from plenty offish.com, which I was told was an app specifically for something else. Think sex, but they hit it off and they got married. So I know it can work. I just haven't ventured there yet.

Okay, that's fair. Would you let your friend set you up with someone?

100%.

You trust them.

Yes, that's the best way. Because I feel like my friend knows me, knows what I like. That's the best way. I think getting hooked up with somebody like that is the best way. Like friends being like, "Hey, I'm bringing so-and-so." Or, "You got to meet La. Like you would love her." Or whatever. Like that's the best way.

What friend do you think would know your type the most? And like you're like, "Okay, I trust you."

All of them, but I think all of them, but Kim would be really good at that. All of them, but she would be good at that. Also because she's single now too. So it's like, it's different. Like, you know, we can talk a little bit more about like, what do we like? What do we not like? Like, what are we looking for? What are we not looking for? Like, it's different.

I think it's good to have a friend like that so knows you. Because I also feel like Kim's the type of person that like, she's like, "Let me do the work for you, then you just show up at the date. I'm going to do a whole background check. Just sit down, sweetie, and you can count on me that they will be the right person for you." You're like, "Thanks, Kim."

That's about right.

What is something after like everything you've been through, what is like a non-negotiable that you've learned about yourself that you're like, "I have to have this in a relationship and like I can't also deal with that in a relationship for your next friend?"

I think I definitely have to have like a family element, meaning someone that's into family, loves like hanging out with fam. That's like important to me. Someone that laughs, like I want to have fun. I want to like laugh. Like the world is so serious. Like I just want to laugh and have a good time. That's important to me. And then like something I won't tolerate, I won't tolerate lying. Like liars, I'm just like, no matter what it is, I respect you more if you're just honest and tell me. I could deal with that. But the lying shit, like I can't, I just can't take it.

As we wrap up, I think that like you've been through so much relationships, career, your life. What is something that you like wish you could tell your younger self? Like if you had a second to be like, "Oh my God, wait, I've gone through all these experiences. I lived life." What would you tell your younger self?

That no matter what you do, everyone's not going to like you. Like I'm such a people pleaser. I'm a cancer. I keep saying that. So like we love people. We want to be loved by everybody. And it's like, why don't you not like me? You don't even know me. Like I stopped, I stopped caring about that. Like no matter what I do, people are going to have something to say about it. All the good I do, something's going to be said. Whatever I wear, something's going to be said. It doesn't matter. It's just like what it is. And you have to realize that no matter what you do, you can't please everybody. And you have to like find your own happiness and please yourself. And it sounds like so cheesy, but it's just so true.

Amen.

And seen.

You're amazing. And it was really cool to get to feel your personalities.

Yeah, I'm so glad we did this.

So good. So the daddy gang is going to love you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I can't wait to watch your yet. And find me a man. Goodbye. So the NFL player I was talking about.