Transcript of Ed Lubowicki: Why the Best Business Lessons Come From Feeling Lost, Burnt Out, and Stuck in Your Career | E17

You spend your whole life thinking you're the best at something, and then you make it to a level where you're not the best, and you see your best friends on TV getting the accolades and you feeling like you're on the sidelines.

My next guest played Division I lacrosse at Notre Dame, 2 Final Fours, and a national championship game. Ed, welcome to Business MVP.

I just thought that's how everybody felt, you know, like how everybody hated their job and just showed up anyway.

What's the one pattern you see that separates the people who build something meaningful from the people who stay stuck?

I think like sometimes you need You need to feel that stuckness in order to find something meaningful.

So if you could go back and tell your younger self one thing about what building a meaningful career actually requires, what would it be?

You can be walking the wrong path or you can be doing something you're not interested in, and then 10 years go by like it did for me and you kind of wake up to it.

My next guest played Division I lacrosse at Notre Dame, 2 Final Fours, and a national championship game. Then he spent 9 years climbing the ladder at one of the biggest consulting firms in the world, and then he walked away, not because he failed, but because success without purpose isn't success. Today, Ed Lubowicki is the founder of Lubowicki Performance Advisory, the executive director of Athlete Soul, and he's helping athletes and high performers figure out who they are when the game ends. Ed, welcome to Business MVP.

I love it. What an intro. I gotta steal that. I gotta clip that for some of my stuff. That's great. I also started as a VP for This company, 42U, it's like VP of identity development in sports. So it's, it's just another play on how to help athletes articulate their strengths that they learn in sport and how they think because of sport.

Ed, your dad played lacrosse at Florida State and introduced you to the game before you could walk. You were an All-American in high school. You get to Notre Dame and the competition is on a completely different level. What was that adjustment like?

Wow, Sammy, you did your homework. You know where my dad went to school? You know, yep. My dad's an interesting guy. I love it. My dad's interesting. He, he played lacrosse like into his 50s. Like he was a lax guy for sure. I love that. He loved it. Loved it for a long time. Yeah, it was an interesting shift for me for sure. My freshman year, I played lefty attack and there were 2 other lefty attackmen, All-American, one being one of the best to ever do it. I feel like I say his name in every podcast and I'm not like clout chasing, carrying on his stuff, but he was like, Truly like one of the best players I ever played with. And it was a new thing for me for sure, seeing how he just like managed the game and everything. So it was definitely a big adjustment seeing how that was. It was a big adjustment, like having lacrosse be your whole life. Like in high school, I had my friends that were not lacrosse players. I went to an all-boys high school, so we cared about sports, but you had to do other things as well.

Getting to the college space, it like revolving, like everything you do revolving around lacrosse was another shift for me for sure.

Yeah, no, and Notre Dame is so good now at lacrosse, which is what a cool experience. Yeah. So you didn't travel your freshman year, I read, but then, you know, your teammates were playing on TV while you were watching from home after grinding all week in practice. So how did you handle that and what did it teach you about finding your value when you're not necessarily the best player in the room?

Dang, Sammy, were you following me around and, you know, you knew where I was going? I do my research.

I watched your Instagram posts.

I gotcha. I gotcha. Yeah, no, it was a weird shift for sure. 'Cause like you spend your whole life thinking you're the best at something and then you make it to a level where you're not the best. Then you see your best friends on TV getting the accolades and you feeling like you're on the sidelines. So it definitely is a big shift. I think it's a motivator in a lot of aspects where you, once you're a part of that and you're in the same room with that excellence, it makes you naturally want to get better and contribute in other ways and kind of support your teammates in, in whatever way you can. At Notre Dame, we had a, a, like a blue squad and a gold squad. So the gold squad was like the, like backup kind of thing. And we always got to pretend to be the other team. So my freshman year and sophomore year, as I was figuring it out, I got to like pretend to be— That's cool. Like the Thompson brothers. I don't know if you remember them. They were Native American players that would like throw like around the world and do like all this fun stuff.

So we took a lot of pride in the Gold Squad. I'm sure a lot of my teammates that were Gold Squatters would, would appreciate me shouting that out. So yeah, it was definitely, definitely tried to be creative about finding other ways to add value for sure.

Yeah, I love that. So your Notre Dame teams made 4 NCAA tournaments. reached 2 Final Fours and played for a national championship. So, what did competing in that kind of championship environment build in you that you carry into business?

Yeah, really quick, that's nothing compared to the senior class that just graduated from Notre Dame this year.

Right, yeah.

Being in 3 of 4 national championships, winning 2 of the 4. I'd love to talk, talk more with some of those folks on how they're doing it. I don't know. I mean, I think like it was just like an accepted thing that you were gonna do great things, you know? And I probably didn't realize that till I was in the corporate world for a few years. But because we were shooting for the national championship every year, it was just like an accepted belief that we were gonna get to that level, you know? Mm-hmm. And as I shifted into corporate, it was just an accepted belief that I was gonna work really hard and try to do the best that I could for my partner, for my team, for my clients. Like, it wasn't really like a decision. Yeah. It was just like, this is gonna happen. So in a weird way, like, it just naturally happened for me. I'd say like, probably it wasn't until like 5 or 6 years after leaving Notre Dame when I really like intentionally thought about what sport did for me uniquely, like what Notre Dame did for me uniquely.

I think right away after graduating, I just kind of like hit the ground running. I was like, I'm just gonna do work and figure it out and rise the ranks. And I didn't really think about what sport was for me. Yeah. So, yeah, it was interesting. It took me a little while to get used to that.

No, I know that's a big adjustment, right? Yeah, it's a huge adjustment for people. I think just, even just the physical part of it, right? Like, going from being so physically active all the time to not being as physically active is a huge adjustment. There's just so many things. So, no, that makes sense. So, what was your biggest failure as an athlete, and how did that shape how you handle failure in business?

Oh yes. Oh man. Failure. Really quick. Just, just something to mention about the physical component that you were mentioning. That was a big shift for me and it took me a lot of years to get back to that physical component. And I lived in New York City for a long time and there's, you gotta get a little innovative with how you can connect with your body in New York. Like, and if you don't, you kind of fall for what New York is like. You just eat a lot of food, you'd go out and drink a lot. And I definitely fell for that because I didn't have that physical outlet. Now I live in Charlotte, North Carolina on a lake and I get to run every morning and it's a lot easier to connect with my physical body. But that was definitely a huge shift for me. You know what, failure, the failure question, I don't know why, but the first thing that came to my mind was this like 7th grade elite program team that I didn't make when I was a kid. I don't know why that was the first thing that came to my mind.

It was like the first time I ever didn't make something or I wasn't the best at something. And

I

don't know, my, my dad, if you asked him about it, he would say it was like political or something with the coaches or something. But I remember that like really hitting me hard when I was in 7th grade and I didn't make that team. And I was like, dang, there's better lacrosse players out there than me. And I don't know, I mean, that's like what you learn. I think you just learn to keep going, you know, like you just keep on Trying different things and finding new people and surrounding yourself with new teams. So, I feel like I probably failed a lot more in my athletic career, like, as I continued, you know, as we were saying, like, as you join the college ranks, it's hard to figure out your value. But yeah, for some reason, that was the first thing that came up.

Yeah. So, how do you think that helps you handle failure in business? Like, do you, is it the same mindset? You're like, okay, I just have to keep going, or? How did that translate?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's actually probably a little bit easier in business where you don't have like a scoreboard or you don't have like a record at the end of the year, right? Like you have your performance reviews and your sales quotas or whatever that you have to hit, but it's not like as obvious of like, this year was a complete failure 'cause we went 5 and 12. Right. You know, like you can kind of iterate a little bit quicker than that and try new things, especially in like, I'm a new entrepreneur and you can kind of like shift really rapidly, uh, and find new things and new people to try. Um, and like every day is a new way to try new things. So, I actually think it's probably a little bit easier to just keep on going and find new things you're interested in or find new people that you kind of get inspiration from.

Yeah. So, you graduated from Notre Dame with an IT management degree, and then you went straight to Deloitte. Good company, good reviews, made manager in 6 years. I think it was, I read. So, I felt like, you know, regardless, on paper it was working. So, but what was actually happening for you?

Yeah, I mean, the IT management major, going to Deloitte, those are really things that I just thought were like the right answer, you know? Like, that's what the market wanted. It was

like,

my family thought was interesting. What you're supposed to do.

Yeah.

What you're supposed to do. Like, at Notre Dame, you had 2 options in my mind. Like, you can be a banker or you can go into consulting. Like, so many people from Notre Dame go into consulting. Interesting. So I kind of just like heard that as a rule that you had to follow and kind of, uh, continued on through that. So IT management, when I was graduating, cybersecurity was like massive. Like every company was getting hacked and didn't know what to do about, um, responding to those hacks. And I just kind of thought it was an interesting problem, thought it was something that I could help with and wanted to work hard with it. So I never really cared about the content. If that, like, as bad as it sounds, like, I wasn't, I wasn't like a programmer. I wasn't like coding or anything like that. I just thought it was like this big scary problem that I wanted to pull up my bootstraps and figure out and, and work hard at, um, and learn from people. Yeah. With, and learn how to have a job and things like that. So, that's really what was going on.

I mean, I think that came to a head probably once I made manager and had all the responsibilities and saw the writing on the wall that I would've had to get a little bit more technical. if I wanted to go any further at Deloitte in cybersecurity. So, I think it eventually showed my true interests and made me want to, like, find out something new or find something that I was more passionate about and find something that I was close to as passionate about as lacrosse, which I don't know if, like, ever can fully happen. But I had that yearning, at least in me, probably like 5 or 6 years after graduating.

Yeah. So, that's probably, I guess, so, you know, you said your unhappiness wasn't about the job, it was about losing sport. You no longer had a higher purpose or a place to put all that energy you once poured into lacrosse. So is that kind of when that became clear for you at that point?

Yeah, honestly, I think it was like the first time I ever thought about it, you know? Like, I just thought that's how everybody felt, you know? Like how everybody hated their job and just showed up anyway. Mm-hmm. Like, I don't know why that was like in the back of my head. That's like how you just had to accept how it was and keep going. And probably 5 or 6 years, like, I never loved living in New York. I wanted to leave every year and I never did. Like, the cyber content was something that I knew I wasn't really interested in. And I think like after a while it just came to this like eureka moment, like, I gotta figure this out or I gotta try something new.

Again, I think, you know, you ended up staying for a little bit longer after that, but a lot of people in your position like would've stayed kind of what you described, right? Like good salary, good title, good trajectory was what you're supposed to be doing. So, what gave you the courage to finally walk away?

Yeah, I mean, it was probably a longer journey than I needed to make it. I ended up switching roles at Deloitte into an internal role, which was really good for me. I got to see like how the sausage was made at Deloitte, learned from incredible partners selling like hundreds of million dollar deals kind of thing. So, I continued to learn in different ways that wasn't specific to cyber for a few years, but really this master's program that I started A few years ago that I just finished, uh, about 2 months ago, uh, was really like—

Thanks. Congrats.

The, thank you. Yeah, that was really the confidence point for me because the content itself, it was a psychology program where you had to get vulnerable about your life and what's happened in your life and where you want to go next. So my homework assignments were like to reflect on my experience in sport. Uh, so it like forced me to really think about it. and think about where I wanted to go. Got it. And it was just like something I was interested in and started talking to people about and started hearing other people think about their experience retiring from sport in a similar way. And weirdly, them also think they were the first people to go through it, right? Like how I thought I was like the only one to retire from sports, even though like—

Right, but there were a lot of people feeling the same thing, yeah.

Exactly, yeah. Like, and I talked to hundreds of people about it, all different sports, all different levels, levels, like Olympic, pro, semi-pro, college, and everybody had that kind of feeling. I started watching more of the documentaries and TV shows and movies about it, and it kept on coming up. It was like this cliché that every athlete has some identity revolution after retiring from sport, and it just kind of pissed me off the more I was thinking about it. how everybody is thinking this way, and it's still happening every year, and nobody's really doing anything about it.

Yeah, there's a huge gap there. We hear about it a lot on, on this podcast. So, for everybody listening, I just wanna clarify. So, basically, instead of jumping into another role, Ed went back to school at UPenn to earn a master's degree in organizational psychology and leadership coaching. So, you wrote your thesis on athlete retirement and identity development. So, why is it important to you to ground this in research rather than just coaching from experience?

Yeah, I mean, that's a good question. I mean, I kind of took it 2 different directions, one from like the scientific perspective and one from the media perspective. Like I, like I was saying, I watched a lot of movies. I saw a lot of biographies from players. I named the thesis Athletes Die Twice. Have you heard that one? Anyone say that one before on the podcast? No. Mm-mm. I saw it in Roger Federer's documentary. It's called like The 12 Final Days of Roger. And even that, it's like he's super alive. He's a billionaire. He's doing a lot of really impressive things. And there was this like weird narrative that he's passed away because he retired from sport. So like that kind of piqued the interest. And then I wanted to just see if there were any researchers thinking about this? And it was overwhelming how much scientific empirically-backed studies there are on this phenomenon of athletic retirement. If you just search on APA PsycINFO, a common source for journal articles and stuff, there's 200+ articles on athletic retirement. And I was like, I retired from sport and I didn't see any of these. So I think that kind of piqued the interest a little bit more.

And like, as I was like digesting more and more of this, like these scientific like articles, I was like, this should be easy for athletes to digest and use. It shouldn't be like hiding away and there shouldn't be 200 different studies on it. Like this should be enacted in the systems that we produce our athletes. So yeah, I think it's like a combination approach. Yeah.

Yeah. So no, that's just interesting 'cause I think there's also a lot of entrepreneurs out there that wanna coach and do stuff, right? But you know, sometimes having that educational and scientific background is really important. So, I just wanted to highlight that. So, before we kind of get into what you're doing now, looking back, did the 9 years at Deloitte actually prepare you for what you're building now, even though it didn't feel like it at the time?

1,000%. Yeah. And I mean, even while I was in it, like, I was constantly learning. It wasn't like 9 years of nothingness and—

Nothing, right?

Yeah. Like, I was constantly learning from people, learning how to have a job, manage my time, have multiple projects, learn how to communicate, all these really important skills that can be used anywhere. And that's kind of the beauty of consulting that you should be able to come into any business problem and know how to talk about it or ask questions about it and things like that. So definitely not discrediting that experience at all. I think it was incredible. I think The content itself, like cybersecurity, maybe that was more of the, uh, whatever, dead space kind of thing. But, um,

yeah,

still, even that, learning, learning to think through things through techno— a technology lens, like, that is super helpful in any domain these days. Like, it has to be in any domain these days.

Yeah, got it. So, walk me through LubaWiki Performance Advisory as a business, you know, How are you still doing that, I guess? And how do you get clients? How do you charge? And what does building a coaching practice from scratch actually look like?

Yeah, it was a lot harder than I was expecting. I don't know why I thought like I got this master's program with, with which had a concentration in leadership and executive coaching, and I was just like, all right, now I'm just gonna change the world and everyone's gonna kind of need my help kind of thing. Uh, and it was a lot more difficult than that. Yeah. Um, to be honest, like, mm-hmm, it was a lot more, outreach and expertise. Yeah.

Hard to get clients, right?

Yeah. Like, I really thought I didn't do a great job of like showing my expertise in this space. Like, I wrote a master's thesis on it. Like, I had been thinking about it for a long time and it took me probably longer than it needed to, to like develop that digital presence that I was like in this space. So like, it's worked out great. Like, I've gotten some really interesting clients across all levels of sport, and I know that I've helped them in their experience. But as I was going through it and coaching people and talking with like people about this problem, it didn't really feel like I was like moving the scale at all. Like it didn't, like this athletes die twice narrative, it didn't feel like I was pushing the needle against that. You know what I mean? It just felt like I was helping the few folks that I was starting with. So yeah, still doing, still, still doing the business. I've changed my audience to be more folks that are a few years after retiring from sport because of these other opportunities that we'll talk about in a second, Athlete Soul and 42U, which are a little bit of a different audience.

So yeah, still, still posting, uh, mainly on LinkedIn, mostly to, to show that expertise, um, and reaching out to as many people as, as possible and have a few clients that I'm still supporting. Um, yeah.

Yeah. So I mean, how do you, Like, for those listening that are thinking about building a coaching practice, like, how do you get clients? Is it reputation, word of mouth? Are you networking like crazy?

Yeah, I, to be honest, I think all of it. Yeah, I think, um, having a digital presence showing like very specifically what you're helping solve and who you're helping, trying to help.

Yeah, showing your value.

Showing your value and making people think like that they are going to get value from you. Um, I think that is really huge. I thought that it was gonna be easy to have the word-of-mouth organic growth. I think you need to be a little bit more intentional about that. Yeah. And networking, I've like been like my hair on fire networking as much as possible, talking about this problem. Like, I've at this point talked with more than 500 people about this phenomenon of athletic retirement and how people need some help. I think like athletic retirement is a very, very interesting niche for coaching because, like, you think executive coaching is an expense that's outside of your normal expenses, that's usually expensive. And when you first retire from sport, whether it's from college or pro or Olympics, you're trying to figure out how to make money, not lose money. So I got hit— Right. Pretty hard initially figuring out that model. And That's led me to these other organizations, Athlete Soul and 42U, that have a different financing model than asking individuals to pay for coaching. So, I think that's been my way of getting around that phenomenon of, like, finding clients.

Yeah. Instead, going the business-to-business route with, with Athlete Soul and 42U.

Okay. Yeah. So, that's interesting advice. So, let's talk about Athlete Soul. So, you participated in the Athlete Soul program yourself before becoming the person running it. So, how did you go from being in the program to leading it as an executive director?

Yeah, I just raised my hand really. I love the programming. I was like really active in the programming myself. It was like I had learned how to be a coach, how to manage group coaching environments in my, uh, in my master's program. So I joined, I was like,

uh-huh,

probably, probably talking more than I needed to in some of the conversations. Um, and just started talking with their founder more and more, their coaches more and more. Eventually joined as an advisory board member last fall. And as I was like figuring out what that meant, like to be an advisory board member, board

member,

I just kept on raising my hand and offering my time. And it was just really good timing on their end as well, where they wanted to start to scale and get their mission out there and work with more sports organizations. So, like, I had been doing some of the work as a board member, and then just raised my hand. I was like, I could do this in a lot more formal way, in a lot bigger way, and I want to do it. So, yeah, that's kind of how it worked out.

Yeah. So, I mean, it sounds like, you know, for people that are looking to get involved in multiple things, it's like, you know, get involved, raise your hand, you know, do a great job, volunteer for board positions, all of that, and then opportunities come, which is definitely how it should be. So, you also mentioned 42U. So, tell us about that, what you're doing there, and then how do you manage all these multiple businesses and things that you do?

Yeah, getting better at the managing every time. 42U's all about trying to help college athletes figure out their identity and brand as an athlete. Like how they think because of their sport, their preferences because of their sport, and articulating it in a way that other people can understand it. Like a hiring manager can understand it, their coach can understand it. Their parents can understand it. And just kind of like starting some of that reflection in a similar way of, of Athlete Soul, like starting with some of the reflection about what sport has done for you and how you can apply it to other domains. Just in a slightly different way. And we use a psych— psychologically backed assessment at 42U, just kind of trying to start that line of questioning about what's important to you. It's been really fun working with a lot of really interesting college athletes, all different types of sport. And I kind of get to see under the hood reviewing some of the psychological assessments, like wrestlers' tendencies versus lacrosse players' tendencies versus curlers' tendencies or whatever. It's like really cool seeing how sport naturally develops certain ways of thinking. Like going back to the priority perspective and raising your hand, I would say like something I really needed to learn joining this entrepreneurial life is like patience.

I raised my hand, I talked to whatever, 500, 500+ people, and I was just expecting it to work out right away. Even the coaching business, I was like, okay, I'm here, I'm ready to do things, like it's going to work. But like the relationships you build, like joining boards, like all of that needs time to like kind of matriculate. and turn into something, and turn into something like transactional. So, that was something that like, I really, took me a while to learn, like, that this takes time to develop these relationships, and to become an expert in a space takes time in and of itself. Yeah.

Yeah, no, I mean, I think that's really good advice for people, athletes or not, right? Like, get involved, but it all takes time. And it's like the work you're putting in today, you know, will pay you back tomorrow, right? But it's not gonna be today. So, yeah, really good advice. So, what's the hardest business decision you've had to make, and how did your athletic background shape how you handled it?

Hardest business decision I've had to make. I mean, it's hard not initially responding with moving from Deloitte into the entrepreneurial world. I think that, like, I don't know if that's like a particularly like, yeah.

Yeah. That's a business decision though. Like kind of getting out of the corporate world and taking a risk on starting something new. I mean, that's a business decision.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, connecting that with sports, I think like having a belief in myself that it's gonna work out, like you have to do that in sports every day. Like you have to believe that you're gonna be the best. You have to believe that you're gonna win the national championship. Mm-hmm. And then it happens kind of thing. So kind of like betting on myself in that way probably is why it didn't seem like as drastic. Like people keep on telling me like how much confidence it takes to do that and how hard it is to do that. You get comfortable doing other things. And I don't know, I like, I didn't, I don't know if I necessarily always had that like feeling like I'm the most confident person in the world, like this is gonna work out. It just kind of was maybe a little more natural that I was just following and betting on myself kind of thing.

So, we've been talking a lot about what you built. I wanna shift a little more to how you think. So, you, you said you've spoken with like 5, you know, 500+ athletes, high performers about you know, reinvention. What's the one pattern you see that separates the people who build something meaningful from the people who stay stuck? Like, what are those people doing differently, right?

Yeah, I don't know. Like, I think that's a hard question to ask. I think like everyone is experiencing it in different ways, um, and I don't know if there's necessarily like a right answer. Um, like I was stuck for a long time trying to figure out what my, my life at Deloitte and my life now as an entrepreneur. And I think like sometimes you need to feel that stuckness in order to find something meaningful, right? Like, I think you appreciate it a little bit more. Yeah. So maybe I'm just dancing around not answering the question, but I do think like everybody has like a point when they realize that they can find something more meaningful. And for me, it took like 10 years after graduating to find something Like, as meaningful.

Well, is it that you think, like, they don't have something that they're passionate about, or that they maybe just, they don't have the drive? You know what I mean? Like, what's keeping that? I know you're saying, like, it might be a good thing to be stuck. I don't disagree. But what are they lacking at that point when they're stuck? Like, is it the drive, the determination, you know, the work ethic? Like, what are you seeing over and over?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's really easy to get comfortable in a space, uh, and just kind of, like, clock in, clock out to whatever you're doing. And a big piece of my research was understanding liminal spaces, like times of liminality. Have you heard anyone talk about that before?

A little bit, yeah. No, tell us about it.

Yeah, it's kind of like between 2 places or like between 2 identities, like the time after a certain part of you stops and before your new normal begins. Like, it's like this interesting in-between area where you can really see like creative, like limitless possibilities because you're not stuck in that old comfort zone. So I think it's like, Yeah. it's, it's hard to really arrive at that unless you get kind of either hit in the face or you have some eureka moment or you have someone kind of like really showing you what could be. And a lot of times I think it takes one of those liminal spaces to realize what else you can do, or it almost like forces you to think about it. You know, it forces you to ask those like vulnerable questions. It forces you to get uncomfortable, um, to see what else is out there. Does that better answer the question? Yeah.

Yeah, no, that's good. Yeah. So I mean, just to further that, like I've read that your practice is built on 3 pillars, adapting your athletic strengths to your work, staying connected to your body, and finding a new community, which you've kind of talked about all of this a little bit. So, for the entrepreneurs listening who feel stuck or disconnected right now, which of those 3 is most often the missing piece?

Hmm. Yeah, probably a little bit of all 3. I say like the community piece is probably the hardest to find, right? Like, it's, it's hard to like find your go-to accountability partners or the communities that you're involved in that you just like naturally through osmosis get some inspiration from. Like, I think that's hard to do, especially in a virtual world, like where you're not like seeing people every day, uh, or like catching things in the hallway. I think that could be really difficult. Um, so that's probably the hardest to like do on your own. Um, like— Yeah. Point of a community is having other people. But I mean, like the, the connecting with your sport thing, I think is something that no athlete really does, you know, like think about why they're good at their sport specific to them. You know, like every athlete is hardworking, every athlete is whatever those buzzwords, but like unique to every specific person based on their sport, based on the position in their sport, how they played their position is unique to every athlete. Yeah. And I don't think we give ourselves enough grace to really think about those things.

Like, I was just talking to somebody yesterday who's a basketball player. He was a point guard distributor, and he never really thought about how that mindset of being a point guard distributor matters to his work now. He just also finished a master's program researching psychology, and he was like, makes a lot of sense why I'm interested in this because that's kind of how I learned to think from when I was 5 years old. As a point guard basketball player. Yeah.

Yeah. No, that makes sense. So, if you could go back and tell your younger self one thing about what building a meaningful career actually requires, what would it be?

Yeah, I mean, I think really just like doing things and thinking about what you did. Like, like, as simple as that is, like, just like really iterating, but making sure you have time to separate and look at things from a 10,000-foot view instead of just getting caught up in it. And never really reflecting on what's going on. Because I think just the reflection thing or just thinking about your passion is not super fruitful because you're not experimenting, you're not out in the real world, you're not seeing what works and what doesn't. Yeah. But without the reflection piece, you can be going down the wrong route, right? You can be walking the wrong path or you can be doing something you're not interested in, and then 10 years go by like it did for me, and you kind of wake up to it. So I think it's a combination of doing it and then like reflecting on what you did. Yeah.

Yeah. So what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given, and do you still follow it?

Oh, the best piece of advice. Yeah. Um, I think probably like something that's been important to me my whole life, and not necessarily from like a faith perspective, but just from like maybe the confidence perspective, but something my dad always told me that was like, became a rallying cry for our family was, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. And like, not the religious side of things, but more like that it'll work out if you have the faith in it. If you like really trust that you're doing your best work, things are going to work out. So I don't know. Yeah, that comes first to mind.

No, I think that's usually pretty good advice, right? Like eventually, if you're doing your best, you're working as hard as you can, like eventually it's gonna fall into place, right? You're putting in time, the effort, surrounding yourself with the right people. So, I think that's good advice. And you started talking about this a minute ago with the basketball example, but you said that on the lacrosse field, you were always more of a distributor. You liked seeing your teammates in the spotlight. Has that changed as a business owner? Is that still who you are?

I definitely think it's still who I am. Like, I, I really, like, want to support the founder of Athlete Soul, Miriam, as much as I can. I wanna support the founder of 42U, Steven Bianco, as much as I can. Uh, and I wanna see their like passions come to fruition. And any work that I do with athletes, I love seeing their like eureka moment in their eyes. Like, this, this makes sense to me. Like, that's my favorite part of this shift. Um, like seeing them like kind of like noodle on things and Like, think about a question they never thought about. Like, those things are really like my favorite things. Um, whatever the paychecks and accolades, and I'm on a podcast right now really just trying to spread this mission, not because like I want, I want to see my face on, uh, LinkedIn or Instagram or whatever. Um, so yeah, I think it's definitely still there.

Yeah, I love that. So I know we've talked a lot about where you're working on. Is there anything else you're working on right now that we haven't talked about or that you're You know, really excited about right now?

We're 36 minutes in. It's hard not to talk about AI in any conversation you're in these days. I mean, I really wanna get creative about using some of these tools that are making things incredibly easy for us and in a way that's helpful for people thinking about transitions or thinking about how to articulate their strengths. So, Still working on actually how to operationalize that, but I think there's something big there in this space and with sports in general using technology. I don't think sports organizations have fully comprehended how we can use that in technical things on the field, but also in this second mental performance-based field for getting better. as like a whole person. So yeah, I don't know. Yeah, testing things there for sure, but we'll see where that turns out.

Yeah, it's exciting in the sports space to see what AI does. But I think even if you're not, you know, an athlete or in sports, for those that are listening or watching, you know, really leaning into AI, 'cause otherwise you're just gonna get passed up at this point, right? You can't fear it, you've gotta lean into it. So love that you brought that up. So, Ed, last question. What does it mean to you to be a business MVP?

Business MVP. Yeah, I mean, I think just like continuing to set yourself up for great things. I mean, trying new things, like innovating in new things. Yeah, I mean, just doing your best, kind of to what we were talking about before, like, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Just like putting your best foot forward and making waves. Yeah, what does it mean for you? This is your thing.

Oh, yeah, I mean, I think it can be a lot of things, right? Like, I always get really different answers to that question. I think it'd be a lot of things. I think it can be like, when do you feel like you're succeeding? So what does it mean to kind of be at the top, right? Is it you're happy, you're enjoying what you're doing, you've surrounded yourself with great people, maybe you're reaching your goals, right? Or, you know, maybe it's you're making others better around you, you've created a great culture. I mean, I think it can just mean a lot of things to me. I mean, I kind of think it's all those things, right? You want to love what you're doing. You want to be passionate. You wanna be, you know, kind of at the top of your game like you would be as an athlete, and you wanna be contributing, right? Making a difference, having an impact. So, I think it's all those things for me.

Yeah, I really like that. I mean, I think, and encapsulating that in maybe a better answer is like finding a problem that really pisses you off and figuring out how to solve it. Like, I think that's a really cool way.

Yeah.

To describe entrepreneurship. Like, Finding something that doesn't make sense to you and figuring out how to solve it, I think, would be maybe a better answer.

Yeah, I mean, I think what you're saying there too is like, you have to be passionate about something, whether it upsets you or, you know, makes you happy, whatever it is, right? But like, if you're passionate about it, figuring something out, then you're, you're going to have that drive and determination, and you're not going to stop till you figure it out. And that's what makes people successful, right? So, that's another version of, you know, being a business MVP. So, I mean, I think it's for people that are, you know, if, if you wanna, if you're interested in something, you wanna pursue something, like, you've gotta do it, right? And then you've gotta do it relentlessly and probably differently than, than, you know, the person next to you is. So, yeah, I mean, I think there's so many versions of what a business MVP is, but I think, you know, that's, that's some great advice.

Yeah. You said relentlessly. I have this sign up here. This is probably another thing I probably should have said, uh, when you said best advice. You've ever gone, do good recklessly, do good relentlessly. Just keep on, uh, giving the, the world the best you have regardless. So.

I love that. Do good relentlessly. I love that. So, we can end on that, 'cause that's great. Um, Ed, thank you so much for your time and sharing your journey. Uh, really appreciate it, and good luck to you.

Yeah, yeah. Excited to see where Business MVP goes. This is, this is gonna be a great few months.

Thank you. And that's how champions think. Here are the key takeaways from my conversation with Ed today. Success without purpose is just a title, and titles don't keep you up at night. Purpose does. You don't have to be the star to be essential. Sometimes the person who makes everyone around them better is the most valuable one in the room. And don't wait until you're miserable to ask yourself what you actually want. If you got value from today's episode, share it with someone who's ready to think bigger, compete harder, and win in business. Make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an episode. And if you haven't, leaving a 5-star review goes a long way in helping us grow and reach more leaders like you. I'm Sami Peterson. Thanks for being part of the Business MVP Community, and I'll see you next time as we continue building you into an MVP in business and in life.