Transcript of Abbie Fish: Your Guide to Building Coaching Businesses Online in Any Industry | E12

I launched a new membership site. I was like, this is gonna go, I'm gonna pour everything into this. And then COVID happened and I was like, well, not a lot of people are paying for swim lessons if they can't get into swimming pools.

My next guest has reached over 250,000 athletes and coaches worldwide, coached 140 Olympians and Paralympians, and consults for entire countries on how to develop swimmers.

There was a timeframe within like my coaching career where I really had to look in the mirror and decide like, what are we doing this for? And if we're doing this for you, coaching is not the right path.

Abby Fish is a 6-time 6-time Olympic trials qualifier and 2-time USA Junior National Champion who founded Swim Like a Fish and proved you don't need fame to build something global. You need to be undeniably good at one thing and figure out how to teach it.

I was actually in Alaska last August, and I received an email asking me to run a program in Africa. I looked at the email address, and I'm like, is this spam? Like, is this right? Like, is this, is this really what I'm reading? Like, it's still really surreal to tell you that, like, I did that.

What are you working on right now that you're most excited about?

Oh man, I don't know if I should say it.

My next guest has reached over 250,000 athletes and coaches worldwide, coached 140 Olympians and Paralympians, and consults for entire countries on how to develop swimmers. She built all of this in just 6 years. Abby Fish is a 6-time Olympic trials qualifier and 2-time USA Junior National Champion, who founded Swim Like a Fish and proved you don't need fame to build something global. You need to be undeniably good at one thing and figure out how to teach it. Oh, and her last name really is Fish. Some things are just meant to be. Abbey Fish, welcome to Business MVP.

Thank you for having me. I appreciate the very kind intro.

I love that. Your name couldn't be more perfect for what you do. It's amazing.

Yes. Whenever I was younger, I would stand behind the blocks and there'd be an eager timer to ask me whether that was like actually my last name as I was racing. So it's, It's transcendent through time.

I love it. So, Abby, you founded Swim Like a Fish in 2019. You've described it as a sink or swim moment. You had the coaching experience, but no business background. So, what brought you to the, to that crossroads?

Well, I had a business partner, so I was working online. I had learned how to generate income through the internet and kind of reach people through social media. Um, and so, yeah, the business partner was going through a personal life crisis, and so they were kind of taking a step back. And so, it was that moment of like, do I wanna, Absorb all of this and have it be ours, or should I create something and have it be mine? And I decided that that was probably the appropriate time to take the chance and do all the extra stuff that he kind of helped me with. Um, and yeah, it was super scary. I had no, no content. I started from zero again. I was like, what do I even want to name the business? And I just started one, one evening, I built a website and it's kind of just gone on from there.

That's amazing. So what did that first year actually look like, and how did you get your first clients, and what was the scariest part of starting from scratch?

Well, the good part about it is I had built up a name, and so I didn't have a brand, but I had a name. And so I was at least known in the swimming world, um, whether that be through like my professional and college career to just starting to coach through other organizations. And so it was funny because it was like I had clients, but I had clients under other umbrellas. And so I was like, oh, so actually I've launched my own thing. It's called Swim Like a Fish. And it took a lot of courage to finally like start saying like, this is mine and let's go. And so the first year actually blended into COVID. So we had a very bizarre first year. I was like super stoked, full steam ahead. We launched a new membership site. I was like, this is gonna go, I'm gonna pour everything into this. And then COVID happened, and I was like, well, not a lot of people are paying for swim lessons if they can't get into swimming pools. So we weren't— we didn't make any profit for really like the first 8 months of existence because we didn't have access to any pools.

So the good part about it is I was like, all right, well, what can I do with this time? Because I want people to understand that I have a new brand. And I actually churned out a bunch of free content and made a ton of new videos and kind of just said like, this is SLAF, here is Swim Like a Fish, this is what I'm doing now. And that really paid off to, to date, because a lot of people are, they know the brand, but they also know me. So, it made that connection point a lot easier for people to understand.

Yeah, it was like, it worked out for you in the end, 'cause it, like, with the COVID transition, that's pretty interesting. So, Yeah. 6 Olympic trials, SEC finalist, 2-time junior national champion. You competed at a very high level for a very long time. So, what did that build in you that you use in business every day?

I think definitely, like, the mentality of, like, just keep going after failures. I think the growth mindset that sports can instill from, you know, different adversities, or not achieving a certain level, or time, or placement, is definitely something that is, it's in all facets of my life. It's actually not just kind of in my business. And then, just grit. I think there are moments as an entrepreneur that people sometimes don't like to talk about, but there's, like, those questionable moments, or the moments where you're like, oh, God, gosh, like, I really need to make this much more income to generate for this, and you're kind of moving forward, and you're growing and building, that you have faith to push through those, knowing that, like, you feel capable in yourself that you can get to the other side. And sports definitely, definitely helped build my confidence in that way.

Yeah, no, I think that's so true. So, what was your biggest failure as an athlete, and then how did that shape how you handle failure in business?

I really wanted to make my first international team when I was a junior in high school, and I had trained all season to go a specific time, And I went the time, I just didn't go the time at the right time. So you had to go it in finals, which is like the evening session in swimming. And I went the time in prelims. So it was a trip to China, and it was like the first time I would've ever been to China, what I like slept, dreamed, and like just everything about.

Yeah.

And I missed it by 0.11. And it's still like one of those, ugh. I still feel it, like even repeating it, I'm like, dang, if I just, you know, if I could have done this.

Yeah.

So yeah, just working through that, that was the first time that I had really gone all in in something and I didn't get what I wanted. And so having to work through like the mental and the psychological component of that, I think has helped transfer it into the moments where it's like, hmm, this didn't really hit right. Okay, so let's take some space, let's process why, and kind of work through what we need to do for next steps. but allowing the space to happen versus, like, just trudging forward.

Yeah, that's great business advice. I was a swimmer growing up, so what stroke was that, by the way?

It was a 200 butterfly.

Oh.

Yeah.

That's the worst. That was like the nemesis. So, you've coached 140 Olympians and Paralympians. How did you build that kind of credibility? Was it from being a no-name, like you kind of mentioned, in some circles, or was there something more?

The way I like to describe myself is kind of like the Kool-Aid Man, how they come like busting through the wall, and they just like show up in spaces. I definitely— the way that I coach swimming is very unique. I don't have a traditional coaching path. And so with that, I have— I've had great opportunities, but not in like the linear way that other coaches may have as they've like been building their repertoire and getting on different teams and being named to different staffs. So, I think slowly but surely, I've been given opportunities. First big one started in Paralympics. And so, I started analyzing strokes for Paralympians. I was flown over to Portugal to work on a world championship staff. And that, like, adds kind of like a, like a star by my name. It's like, all right, well, they've got, they've got something there. And then, that slowly built up. So, I feel like I have had opportunities given to me, but those opportunities are not, like, always gonna be consistent. So, it's like, I, I have to prove myself during that one to get the next one, which is kind And that's kind of how things have added up.

So, it's been really fun, but it's also been, like, very honest the way that I've, like, kind of built my name, which I enjoy. It's like I get on the hot seat, and I'm like, all right, I got a week. Like, we gotta go. Like, we're on for this week. And the inner athlete in me, like, absolutely loves that.

Okay. Yeah, I like that. That's fun. You saw a gap nobody was, you know, nobody else was filling. Swimming had always been coached on a pool deck, right, in person, like you described, pre-COVID. You moved it online. How did you convince people that virtual coaching could work in a sport where everyone said, you know, you have to be there? Because I think there's a lot of people with the same scenario in other business forms. So, very curious on that.

Yeah, it's still definitely like the adoption with swimming is, we're pretty behind, I would say, as a sport from like a technology standpoint and just innovation. A lot of times the water just causes that like stopgap, and people are like, we just gotta go back to what we've been doing. So, the cool part about it is like Trudging before COVID started putting out webinars, started getting the conversation going, and then post-COVID, a lot of people have kind of jumped on the bandwagon, whether that be writing blogs, creating videos, but really kind of sharing their knowledge through a digital realm. And, I think it's helped not only just with what I've done and is the adoption overall that there are coaches that are like, I never really thought that this could be a job. I never really thought that you would be successful doing what you're doing, but I also see the benefit of what you're doing with the athletes that you're working with. And so, I, you know, outta any accolades or being able to say I work with all these Olympians and Paralympians, that's one of my biggest compliments, because I've changed some mindsets from these coaches that have been on deck for 30, 40, 50 years doing the same thing.

And then, yeah, they're looking at me and they're like, nice job. I'm like, thanks.

Yeah. But consistency, proving your worth, I mean, showing up, right? Like, you're sticking with it. So, all great lessons. And the proof's in the pudding.

Like, if you have an athlete that gets better or they have a better, more sound technique because you worked with them or you showed, they showed you a video or I did a virtual lesson, like, that speaks more than me just saying like, hey, this should work. Like, That's sales pitch. You could buy it, you could not, but like, I'd rather just show you the results.

Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's great advice. So walk me through how Swim Like a Fish actually makes money. So you've got courses, consulting camps, and how did you build out the different revenue streams?

Yeah, the different revenue streams have changed because actually my goals with the business have morphed as I've kind of grown. Um, originally I wanted to be a digital nomad, so I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna have a membership site and I'm gonna sell courses and it's gonna be this e-commerce website. That's based around swimming, but there's really no face-to-face interaction, which worked for a while. And then I was like, you know, there's not always like, once you buy a course, now I gotta make a 2.0 course, and then I'm gonna have to make a 3.0. Do I want to keep doing this? Like, and with an athlete, there is a relationship. Like, there has to be a growth in that relationship to get them to continue to strive and move forward.

Yeah. A trust. Yeah.

Yeah. So I felt like the more I pulled myself away from being a person and more just being a digital face, the less I had really the understanding of what that relationship is and how you grow it and how you build it. And so I started missing the in-person interactions, like even virtual one-on-one interactions, that that's where that side, like you said, we do consulting, we do swim camps, we do swim lessons. That are me actually coaching someone came back through. So we've got the e-commerce still exists. We've got in-person, virtual stuff that we end up making money through. And then I also work for USA Swimming, which has added to my name and who I am and the brand, creating content for them. So I've got like a few different ways that money can come in. That allows us to put it in different areas depending on where and how we want to grow.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's, it's good advice, like, to diversify a little bit and have that hybrid of the virtual versus, you know, the human interaction. Because, you know, just in any business, you know, trust with your clients is everything. So, Yep. I love that you, you mentioned that. So, you started this in 2019 as one person, right? And then, how did you build a team around you? What did you learn about scaling from doing everything yourself to leading others? You know, did your sports background help you with that?

This is probably the area of growth that I think I've had the, the most movement in. Um, I think, uh, when you're younger, it's easier to hire people who you think you trust. And so it's like you hire friends or people that are closer to you. Um, and I did that for a while. I was like, you know what? I, I know I need to kind of like let go of some responsibilities, but at the same time, I feel like this is a baby and it's like I've always protected like my baby the most. Um, so I struggled with giving up, um, some of my tasks, and then I made some not so great hires at the very beginning, um, which made me reflect on the type of people that I need to have around me, um, and also better understand, like, what responsibilities I need to just let go of and let somebody else take ahold of. Um, yeah. Yeah.

Delegation is tough. That's a big part of being a great leader is being able to delegate, and it is tough.

Yep, yep. And I still find myself, it's still something I, like, there's a project that I've needed done for a couple months now, and we have somebody who's transitioning out, we have another person who's transitioning in, and so, I tossed it to somebody else, and they've had things going on. And so, I was over the weekend, I was like, you know, you could just get this done. And I'm like, but you don't need to get this done. Like, just, yeah, let somebody else do it. It's your time, and your time is valuable. Spend it, you know, doing other things.

Yeah, agreed. And it is tough, especially for those of us that are kind of Type A and, you know, control freaks. So, I get it. You know, now you're consulting for Swimming Singapore, I think I saw, you know, US Paralympic Swimming, World Aquatics. So, how does one person land contracts with, like, countries? Like, these are very big contracts. Yes.

Yeah. Actually, the World Aquatics contract was my biggest one that happened last fall. And I, I had applied for what was like an elite list. of consultants that are in each country, and then they can, it's basically like a lottery system. So you have to have a bunch of approval and, um, basically written, uh, recommendation letters saying like, hey, you are considered elite at what you do. Um, and so I've been on the list, but I've never actually been chosen from the list. So I was like, a couple years ago, I was like, I made the list. And my parents were like, good job. What does that mean? You know? Yeah.

You're like, nothing.

I'm like, I'm just on this list. I know this list exists. Like, yeah. Um, and so I was actually in Alaska last August, and I received an email, um, from the coordinator there asking me to run a program in Africa. And I remember, like, I looked at the email address because that's how I always check spam. I'm like, is this spam? Like, is this right? Like, is this, is this really what I'm reading? Like, because it was just that, like, uh, moment of I— Yeah. But someone there had tossed my name to the guy who normally does this program for like more of an age group specific track. And so just kind of like how the stars aligned and just with what I've done, I ended up landing that contract. And so I ran a 6-month program for coaches and athletes all through all the countries in Africa, which was crazy. And I got to mentor them. I ran camps, and I helped out all the swimmers with their technique, which is— it's still really surreal to tell you that, like, I did that. But yeah, it was really amazing to be in a different part of the world, third world country, with less resources, and coming in as, like, the expert to help these kids that are still like our athletes here.

They just want to get better.

So, how does that work? Like, you, so you end up traveling all over the world, which is what a phenomenal experience.

Yeah.

So, you, you get these contracts, and then you, you go, it's, I'm assuming it's like for a length of time. And so, then you go—

Yep.

Into these countries, you do everything you just described, and hopes to make that impact. And then, you know, the contract's over. Is that accurate?

Yeah, this one was, we had a few different camps, so I went over a couple different times for a few durations of time. In between, we had mentorship calls, and so we did follow-up Zoom calls and presentations to kind of add some continuity, which I think makes sense, 'cause I've done a lot of camps in consulting where you like show up once and then it's one and done. And so, their goal was to track it to see how the performances from the start of the program to the end of the program went. They went well. So, my favorite part about it is I still get texts now. I've been 6 months out of it, of these athletes that are performing at that Africa Youth Olympic Games. They're like, hey, I just won a best time in my 50 breaststroke. Like, thanks for the help in camp in October. And I'm just like, that's—

Amazing. Go.

Like, this is awesome. Yeah. So it's for a certain duration of time. That program was gonna potentially continue this year as well, but they were checking funding and it didn't go through for 2026. So if and when they get more funding, it'll probably circle back and then I may be able to go again.

In terms of like preparation though, like is it different for you when you're kind of going to coach an entire swim program versus like just coaching an individual? Or is it still kind of the same approach? 'Cause you're analyzing all the individuals.

It's definitely different. I would say with what I do, kind of being more in the weeds, it's definitely easier with smaller numbers. So if I go into like a one-on-one lesson or a small group clinic, I think we can be more hyper-specific around like what we're trying to achieve and why. I ran a camp in Georgia about a month ago, and that one was large groups. And so we've got assistant coaches from the team that are also helping kind of amplify the message. But it's just harder to keep a collective group of 40 to 60 swimmers on point the entire time. So yeah, I would say energy level, it's the same output, but what we achieve is different depending on the scenario.

Yeah, I know, and I think a lot of people can relate to that, you know, like a product that affects one versus the many, right? So, interesting. We've been talking a lot about what you built. I want to shift to how you think. So, you've built over 1,000 videos, you have 114,000 Instagram followers organically, you know, no shortcuts, no clickbait, you know, it's just value here. So, you built this business by being the most knowledgeable person in the room, right, and creating content that proved it. You said that. So, For the entrepreneurs listening who have deep experience or deep expertise, but don't know how to turn that into an audience and a business, where do you start?

That's a good question. I think, A, like, having some sort of personality when it comes to social media is important. I definitely know what you're saying as far as the clickbait, the like spicy, draw-the-line stuff. I mean, I think that's the fastest way to followers, but that doesn't mean customers. And so, you gotta be super clear on what you want from the reputation and the platform that you're building.

Great advice.

Yeah. So, in some ways, I've always been envious, 'cause I've seen people like come in and they just skyrocket, but then I look at what they're saying or claiming, and I'm like, I wouldn't wanna back that. So, I think being very honest and trustworthy, but also not always acting like you're the smartest person in the room helps build that relationship.

Yeah. I mean, trust and credibility are everything these days, 'cause there's so many people doing the same thing.

Yes. Yeah.

So, definitely agree with that. What's the hardest business decision you've had to make, and how did your athletic background shape how you handled it?

Well, there's probably 2. The first one, I think, is having to let go anyone from a team is a really tough decision. And going back into, like, the earlier hires that I had were a lot of, like, friends. Maybe like adjacent family.

The worst. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, just, yeah, navigating that conversation I think is similar to navigating a conversation around like, hey, this swim didn't go well, but let's like be honest about why. Um, and having that self-reflection kind of be part of the conversation for the athlete. Um, coach like walk, walking them there. Um, So I think that has definitely helped me in the, in those senses. And then I also had a pool contract 3 years ago that got cut because we ended up— there was a facility that got bought out by a private firm, and they didn't want any outside contractors. And I was panicking. Like, it was where, like, my home pool was where I did everything— my lessons, my videos, my this and my that. And part of the conversation, they tried to bring in the fact that if, well, if I film at a private location, then they own a portion of the business. And so, just panic going on everywhere. And so, navigating that took a bit. Figuring out where I was pivoting to also took a moment. Had to get a new contract with ended up being the city here in Louisville, Kentucky.

But I think just learning to be patient is something that you learn in athletics when you're, especially when you're going for like elite-level times and like small drops, it's like you can't, it may not happen for long periods of time. And so, with that, I didn't wanna be patient, but I remembered I should.

Yeah, great advice. So, if you could go back and tell your younger self one thing about what building a business actually requires, what would it be?

I would say that it's like brutal honesty. Like, you cannot build a business and be true, like, to yourself and your customers and all this stuff if it's constantly like, like a tinge. Like, if you inflate things or you're not actually being honest with like where the budget is or what you need income-wise or—

Yeah.

Your expectations, like, it's just not gonna work. So, in a way, it's a good thing. I work well with brutal honesty, but yeah, it can be, it can be hard for others.

So, further to that, like, what habit or principle from your athletic career do you think every entrepreneur, athlete or not, should adopt immediately?

I would say that if you're gonna be an entrepreneur, I used to believe that everyone should do it. I was like, hey, you know, entrepreneurship is great. Like, you get this flexibility, and you can kind of do something that you love. But I really do think that there's a specific personality set of people that would enjoy this kind of job, because it's kind of all-encompassing, never-ending. Like, yes, there's flexibility, but you've got to be 100% all in. So, I would say if you are thinking about being an entrepreneur, or you want— you have a business model you're thinking about pushing, just know that the thought versus how much action is going to be required are significantly different. So, like, you've got to be 100% invested, and you need to believe that what you're going to do is going to sell. Otherwise, the time input versus output you might get from it, it's not gonna be worth it.

Yeah. What's the best advice you've ever been given, and do you still follow it?

Yes, I would say I, I, I like, I have a few mentors that are like really well-known coaches that, I mean, I feel like have instilled a lot of things. Since I'm like, it's kind of bizarre, I'm like very anti-traditional coaching. But at the same time, I was coached by traditional coaches. So one of the main quotes that I always think about is attitude is everything. And so yeah, I mean, just like any job, there's days where I get up and I'm like, oh, I got a lot going on today. Da da da da da. But I am just very grateful and thankful for this to be an opportunity and to be my life that I try to keep myself in check even when I am stressed or I'm dealing with something that. I don't really wanna deal with.

For sure.

Yeah.

So, you started as a swimmer, you became a coach, and now you're building this global business. So, how has your identity shifted through those chapters, and which version of yourself surprised you the most?

Well, I never thought I would be doing this, so I think that that's definitely worth being stated.

Yeah.

I didn't think I wanted to coach. I was very, like, burnt out from swimming when I was done. So, my plan was to go to PT school. So I think shifting into coaching was a huge, like, really? Like, you wanna coach? Are you sure you wanna coach? But I think for a while there, I was also chasing dreams that I didn't achieve in the pool. And that was kind of like a repair stage. So there was a, there was a timeframe within like my coaching career where I was doing traditional coaching, where I really had to look in the mirror and decide like, Is this like, what are we doing this for? And if we're doing this for you, that's coaching is not the right path. But if we're doing this for others and for the athletes that are in the water that are wanting help from you, then like, let's trudge on forward. So that was a huge just shift point for me to understand that changing my identity from Abby the athlete and Abby being the one who was chasing the dreams and the goals to the people I work with, it was an honest look in the mirror.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's great advice, right? Because a lot of people, they're in it for the wrong reason, right? Like, if you're not looking to make the impact and deliver value, and it's all about you, like, eventually there's a ceiling, right? Or there's a breaking point. So, I love that you brought that up. I think about that a lot. What are you working on right now that you're most excited about?

Oh man, I don't know if I should say it.

Oh, okay, well, don't spoil it, but.

Yeah, it might be a year or two before it actually comes through, but I— It's funny, whenever I have an idea, I feel like I have this idea and I'm like, okay, but younger me would be like, go. And I would just not sleep for like 6 months to build whatever I was doing. And it was just insane. Um, so now I'm like, okay, we have the idea, but the timeframe to execution is gonna, um, take a bit. And so what the idea is, is I'm writing a book. Um, I've never written a book before. I'm very excited to write a book.

Amazing.

Yeah, we just started like 2 weeks ago. And so, this may not come out for like 2 years, but I'm very, very pumped up to like venture into a new space, something that I'm not totally comfortable with doing, I've never done before, 'cause I think it's gonna deliver a lot of value to the swimming community.

That's awesome. I'm looking forward to that. I'll totally read it. Everyone else should too. We'll wait for it. You'll let us know when it's out.

It's amazing.

That's really cool. Congratulations. So, Abby, this has been awesome. Last question, what does it mean to you to be a business MVP?

Ooh, that's a good question. I think I'm just, I'm happy for the fact that I get to, within coaching, I get to affect a lot of different people in a really positive way. So, I'm glad that my business is a way to facilitate that happening. So, I feel very, very, very blessed to be a Business MVP.

That's great. Thank you so much for coming on.

Yeah, thank you.

And that's how champions think. Here are the key takeaways from my conversation with Abby today. You don't need to be famous to build something global. You need to be undeniably good at something and figure out how to teach it. Your expertise is enough. Package it, teach it, and the audience will find you. And Abby built all of this in 6 years. Imagine what you could build if you started today. If you got value from today's episode, share with someone who's ready to think bigger, compete harder, and win in business. Make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an episode. And if you haven't, leaving a 5-star review goes a long way in helping us grow and reach more leaders like you. I'm Sammie Petersen. Thanks for being part of the Business MVP Community, and I'll see you next time as we continue building you into an MVP in business and in life.