Transcript of Not Alone | EP 7 | Saskia's Story

This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human. You want to advance your education, but not on a traditional path? At Rasmussen University, you'll find flexible and engaging online experiences, tuition savings options if you qualify, exceptional student support, and much more. You may also qualify for a new laptop when you enroll in select online or on-campus programs. Enroll for a fully online program or on one of their 20 campuses across six states. Start when you're ready and get the support you need. Visit rasmussen. Edu.

Ego Woda is your host for the 2026 iHeartPodcast Awards, live at South by Southwest. Hello, is anybody there? Raised by a single mom, Ego may have a few father related issues. Are we supposed to talk about your dad? Her podcast, Thanks Dad, is full of funny, heartfelt conversations with actors, including fellow SNL alums, comedians, musicians, and more about life and their wonderfully complicated relationships with their fathers. I think and hope that's a good thing. To know Ego. Follow Thanks Dad with Ego Wotam and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

You know RoleDoll. He thought of Willy Wanka in the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? In the new podcast, The Secret World of RoleDoll, I'll tell you that story and much, much more.

What? You probably won't believe it either.

Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been.

Okay, I don't think that's true.

I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Listen to The Secret World of Doll doll on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Hilary Duff, singer, actress, and multi-platinum artist. You desire in family, this picture, and that's not reality. My sister and I don't speak. It's definitely a very painful part of my life, and I hope it's not forever, but it's for right now. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If Saskia's story sounds familiar to you, it might be because of another case that's been in the news.

The mass rape trial, which has stunned France, has ended with 51 men all being found guilty for what they did to Giselle Pelicot.

Our top story today is the mass rape trial that has horrified France. Giselle Pelicot's story was shared around the world. For almost a decade, her husband drugged and raped her and invited dozens of other men to do the same. In those years, Giselle thought she was seriously ill. She thought she was blacking out because of a possible brain tumor or maybe early onset Alzheimer's. She'd been married to her husband for nearly 50 years. She never suspected he had anything to do with her symptoms. Like Sasi, Saskia, she only learned the truth when she saw videos of herself being raped.

Ms. Palico chose to have the trial held in an open court and hopes the public trial will help change society.

When Giselle's story made headlines in December 2024, we were a few months into talking to Saskia. We forwarded her an article about the case. It was the first time she'd ever heard a story like her own.

It was empowering. I didn't know that there were other people out there like me.

But Saskia and Giselle aren't a club of two. In the last two years, there have been more and more stories like this of people raping their partners and publishing images and videos of their crimes. For example, German authorities uncovered a group chat on the app Telegram, where men were sharing intimate images of their partners. Some were even sharing live videos of sexual assault. This wasn't a group chat of 10 or even 100 men. There were 70,000 members. The same thing happened in Italy. 32,000 men on Facebook were part of a group called Mia Mogli, My Wife, where they shared non-consensual, intimate images. It took 3,000 complaints in six years for the group to get shut down. People are just waking up to this crime. And as awareness grows, other survivors, like Saskia, are coming out of the shadows.

When you go home at the end of the day and you crawl into bed with the man that you love, that should be the safest place you'll ever be in the world. I found out that that was the most dangerous place that I had ever been. And that is your real mind fuck.

I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal Season 5, Episode 7, Not Alone. We're not finished telling Saskia's story. But before we dive deeper into this season, we need to zoom out a bit because what happened to Saskia wasn't a one-off. There are people all over the world committing these kinds of crimes, and there are more survivors who are just now climbing out of the dark. In the past few years, we've heard from other people like Saskia. They're women of different ages and different backgrounds. Their stories unfolded years or even decades apart, and they each made different choices in the aftermath of what happened to them. But they've all endured something similar, an unthinkable crime at the hands of someone they loved. We want to share the stories of three women who wrote into us. Let's start with Ember. Growing up, Ember never imagined she'd be the victim of a crime like this.

Everyone described me as just a very strong strong individual. And I myself thought, If you're strong, you're not going to fall prey, that thing.

At 21, Ember was confident, outspoken. She knew who she was, and her faith was a big part of that. She's Christian, and she drew clear boundaries in accordance with her beliefs.

I really did not want to engage in intercourse until I was married, and I was honest about that with every guy I dated. Like, This is what I believe, and if you don't like it, there's the door.

With her fiancé, she found a guy who understood, a man who'd respect her values. His name was John.

At this point, we had been together for about four years, on and off.

During those four years, there had been ups and downs, periods where John's mental health suffered. But finally, Ember saw him becoming the man she always knew he could be. He was stable and thoughtful, and he was getting more involved in the church.

I thought that it was really from a place of him growing and healing and changing.

Everyone around them saw the shift in John. Their friends and family were so excited about the engagement. Even their pastor gave his approval.

It's like all relationships go through really hard times. You guys seem like you're really good together, and I think this would be completely okay. And we're like, okay. And I'm sitting there going, if there were red flags, this person would point this out, and nobody pulled a red flag out.

Their engagement was the start of a new chapter, A Beautiful Life together. Then, a month into their engagement, Ember got sick. It started one night at John's house. She remembers sitting down to study. But after that...

I don't recall anything that happened other than I somehow made it home.

It was like her memory just jumped. One second, she was at John's. The next, she was home. She explained it away. She must have had a long day, dozed off. But nights like this kept happening.

There were so many occasions where I would fall asleep studying, and he would wake me up and be like, Oh, my gosh, you fell asleep again. You need to hurry up and get home. And I would be so out of it. I wouldn't know what was happening, and I'd just somehow make my way home.

Over time, Embra started experiencing other symptoms, like chronic pain without any clear cause.

It was a pain that was indescribable. I couldn't sit, I couldn't stand. I just couldn't find any comfortable position, and I couldn't remember anything that had happened.

And that wasn't all.

I'm breaking out hives all over my body, having migraines I've never had before.

Through it all, John was there for Ember.

I remember him coming over to comfort me. He just sat with me and rubbed my back and was like, I'm so sorry, you're not feeling well.

He supported her as she searched for a diagnosis and went to doctor after doctor. No one could figure out what was going on.

They were just like, Oh, you're probably really stressed out. I was in the throes of school and working full-time and getting married and all that stuff. I was still able to function, but internally, I was falling apart.

Things went on like this for a year, with Ember at a total loss. Just like Saskia, she wanted a solution, some answer that would tie all her symptoms together. And then, one day, an answer began to emerge. During In this time, Ember was taking classes to become a massage therapist. On this particular day, her instructor was talking about the psoas muscle.

The psoas muscle is a highly protective muscle that a lot of people don't even know exists. It attach is on the front of our spine, and if we are in fight or flight, it is engaged instantaneously.

The instructor asked Ember to come up to the front so she could have someone to demonstrate on. This happened all the time in class, and Ember didn't think anything of I'm laying on the massage therapy table.

All of the other students are watching, and she goes to address my psoas muscle, and I immediately dissociate. I don't remember anything that happened on the table. I don't remember anything that my body did that I said. All I remember is at the end, her saying, Okay, that was interesting. I get up from the table and she's like, Hey, do you have a minute? Can you come outside? And I said, Okay, sure.

And she's like, Do you know what just happened in there?

I was like, No, you were working on my so as. She's like, You were somewhere else. You were not present. I really have a strong sense that I need to tell you that something's probably really wrong if your so as is responding in this way and causing you to go somewhere else.

Somewhere else. Lying on the massage table, her mind and body split off into separate directions, just like it did on those nights studying with John. Things were happening around her, but she couldn't remember them. Looking back, Ember now has an explanation for what was going on.

I was dissociating from my trauma.

Dissociation occurs when the mind separates from the body as a way of protecting itself from harm. The brain mutes physical sensations, thoughts and memories, such that many people coming out of dissociative episodes feel like they've just woken up from a dream. But the body stores memories of trauma, even if the brain tries to push them out. That day on the massage table, Ember's body demonstrated that something was wrong.

It was the beginning of my body and brain saying, We need to be in this together instead of separating. In fact, it was shortly thereafter that I actually woke up mid-attack.

The night started the way so many others had. She was hanging out at John's house when her mind went dark. But on this night, in the midst of her dissociation, she woke up and her brain and body snapped back together. When she came to, there was someone on top of her. Her eyes focused, and suddenly she see. It was John.

I freaking out, and I was like, What is happening? She's like, Nothing, nothing, nothing happened. And I'm like, There's evidence that something happened.

His pants were pulled down, so were hers. And remember, Ember didn't want to have sex until marriage. Immediately, Ember could tell John had taken that choice away from her. In the moment, she was still groggy.

I'm still not fully there, but I'm conscious enough to know something is really, really wrong. I lost it.

In a daze, she threw on her clothes and ran out the door. Went home. She called people she could trust, and one of those people notified the church. The next day, a pastor called John and Ember in for a meeting.

And we sit down with the pastor and he's like, What's going on? All I can do is look down at my shoes. All I remember is the floor.

She was quiet. But to her surprise, John spoke up, and he told the pastor everything. John came right out and confessed.

He was drugging me and raping me. The pastor goes, How often has this happened? He goes, This has happened probably once a week, almost the whole time we've been engaged. That is now almost an entire year. It was so much worse than anything I had ever imagined. And I'm just completely just numb. Just numb.

John and their pastor kept talking, but Ember tuned them out. All of her senses blurred together into one loud hum. Finally, their pastor asked John to leave the room so he could speak to Ember alone.

So he leaves the room and the pastor looks at me and he's like, You need to get out of this relationship. This is not safe. This is not good. This is not going to stop.

But as shocked as Ember was, she wasn't ready to hear that yet. After all, she loved John, and leaving him would mean calling off their wedding.

We're like three months before our wedding at this point in time, and breaking that off now means I have to tell everyone what has happened. That, to me, was almost as devastating as realizing what had happened. Now everybody's going to know. This intense desire to hide in that amount of pain was just insurmountable.

Ember couldn't allow herself to face the reality of her situation. She was still holding out hope that maybe if John got treatment, it all be okay. They could forget about this and move ahead with the wedding. So John started going to therapy, and so did she.

I was seeing a therapist that specialized in sexual abuse, and he was seeing a therapist that specialized in sexual addiction.

But therapy gave her different answers than the ones she was seeking. Ember and John's therapists worked at the same location. One day, while waiting for her session, John's therapist her best came through the waiting room.

He walked past me, and then he stopped and came back. You could see his wheels turning. He's like, I'm not supposed to say this, but I feel like you need to know. We've run through a series of diagnostic tests on your fiancé, he's not a safe person. He's officially diagnosed as a sociopath, and you should get as far away from him as possible.

You want to advance your education, but not on a traditional path? At Rasmussen University, you'll find flexible and engaging online experiences, tuition savings options if you qualify, exceptional student support, and much more. You may also qualify for a new laptop when you enroll in select online or on-campus programs. Enroll for a fully online program or on one of their 20 campuses across six states. Start when you're ready and get the support you need. Visit rasmussen. Edu.

Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the spirit daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver.

The Irish traveler said, When I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men.

Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic, Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom-loving and different perspectives. I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius are misunderstood. A sun in Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership.

He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the is-ness of it all.

If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen. Listen to the spirit daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast.

I'm Clayton Neckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor.

Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan, he became the first bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The Internet turned on him.

If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would.

But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here.

This case has gone viral.

The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you.

Please search for it.

This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said, she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. I I've done nothing except get pregnant by the bachelor. Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Ego Woda is your for the 2026 iHeartPodcast Awards, live at South by Southwest. Hello, is anybody there? Raised by a single mom, Ego may have a few father-related issues. Are we supposed to talk about your dad? Her podcast, Thanks Dad, is full of funny, heartfelt conversations with actors, including fellow SNL alums, comedians, musicians, and more about life and their wonderfully complicated relationships with their fathers. I'm thinking, hope that's a good thing. Get to know Ego. Follow Thanks Dad with Ego Wotam and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

Ember was waiting for her therapy session when she was approached by John's therapist. He told her that John was a diagnosed sociopath, and she needed to protect herself. The therapist had to have felt strongly because he was taking a huge professional risk. Telling Ember threatened his license, he violated client confidentiality.

But it was a godsend. Because honestly, if I hadn't heard those words, I think I probably would have assumed that everything was going to be okay for a lot longer. I really thought that I was doing the good Christian thing by staying with him, that I was sacrificing myself so that he could experience love. And that was the point where I was like, I can't marry this man.

We'll hear more from Ember at the end of the episode. But now we want to introduce you to another survivor, Natalie. At 23, she started dating a guy we'll call Steven. When she was with him.

I felt like I was a queen. He would make me feel beautiful and smart, and he would type up these really nice poems or just say how he looks forward to spending time together and getting married and having a family.

Their relationship was a long time coming. He was her best friend's older brother, and in every way, their lives just seemed to fit together. They played on the same softball team. They had a lot of the same friends, and when they talked, the conversation flowed.

It was very natural, and it was just easy. I felt like we had a really strong foundation.

Eventually, they got engaged, then married. But when Natalie got pregnant, That was when Steven really became her rock. She was nervous about being a mom. In the months leading up to the birth-I would rearrange the nursery.

I don't know how many times I rearrange it, and I vacuum it every day.

Steven grounded and supported her.

We had a lot of late nights setting things up, and I would feel bad because he would have to work in the morning, but he was all about it, all about helping and getting everything ready and being very hands-on.

When their son When he arrived, Steven really stepped up. He made everything feel manageable.

He would get up with him. He would feed him in the middle of the night, even when he had to work the next morning. He would be wanting to help with my son and changing his diaper or just being with him to give me an hour of time for myself.

Steven was a dream dad. They were in this together, and for a while, they lived a great life as family. Then came one night when their son was five. Natalie was helping him get ready for bed. He had his own tablet where he could play games and watch TV. All the family's devices were linked in a cloud.

And I had his tablet because I was going to put it in on the counter to charge it.

She was plugging it in when she saw something on the home screen.

There was a little window that had a man, and you could see a penis on the screen. I'm like, Oh, my gosh. Horrified that my son could see that. And I'm like, I hope he didn't click on this. I didn't notice it before.

Her husband was at work. Natalie messaged him right away. Steven put her at ease. He thought it must be spam. Once her son went to sleep, Natalie went back to the tablet to reset it to factory settings.

I was looking in the cloud where the photos and images are because I didn't want to delete all of that. And then that's when I saw photos and videos, dozens of these clips and images.

It was all graphic sexual material.

I was like, I got to get this stuff off of here. But then as I'm looking through, I noticed my bedroom.

She froze, and she zoomed in on the photo.

You can see his hands, his wedding ring. And then I I realized that I am in these images. I'm just horrified because I'm not awake. Some of them, I'm barely conscious, and I'm like, How do I not know what's happening to me. There's no way that he's doing these things to me, and I have no idea what's happening. I would have woken up.

She kept clicking through more photos and videos, and then the images led her to fetish websites. She could see that one of the videos was posted for anyone to see.

The title of the video that he had posted was something like, Creeping around without her knowing. And I was nauseous. I was so embarrassed, and I was... I just shut down, really.

The most upsetting part of it all.

I was pregnant with my daughter. I went I found this. One of the things I remember thinking was, Oh, my God. Was I an active participant in making my daughter? And just remember thinking like, Oh, my God. Okay. I'm this many weeks long? And counting back like, Oh, my God. Okay. And I remember the weekend, and I remember like, Oh, thank God. Like, Okay, yes. I remember this was when it happened.

When Steven came home, she confronted him.

I remember us sitting in the back room of the house, and I just gave him the tablet, and I had the images pulled up. And I'm like, What is this? And he just looked at it and was like, I have a problem. He was asking me, Let's go to counseling. Can we do counseling? And I'm thinking, I think you need counseling. From the day that I confronted him, I never slept in the same bed as him.

But leaving altogether didn't feel like an option.

I remember shutting down and thinking, What am I supposed to do? I work two days a week. He's a hands-on dad. He's supporting us. I need his help. What am I going to do?

So she She picked up as many shifts at work as she could, and when Steven would come home at the end of his workday, she'd find an excuse to go out.

I wouldn't want to be home when he was home.

As the months passed, Natalie began to uncover the full extent of Steven's abuse.

I found in his bedside table underneath some files, he had a bottle of Tylenol PM, and they were all broken up and they were in pieces, and then there was some other powder stuff in the bottle, too. And I'm like, That is probably what he was using and putting it in my drinks because I was not just asleep. I was literally unconscious.

It shattered her sense of safety in her own body and in her own home.

I didn't even want to drink anything that was opened in the house because I was afraid that he would put something in it.

In the aftermath of her discovery, her friends and family could tell something had changed in her, but she kept the truth to herself.

People would ask me, Are you okay? Or, You're quiet. Oh, I'm just tired. Oh, I didn't sleep well last night, or, Oh, I'm just nervous about the baby coming. It was so embarrassing to me. It was like I was trying to avoid really thinking about that. It was just this deep secret that I had.

When her daughter was born, she continued to stay silent. Her priority was giving her kids a good life. And for a long time, she thought that meant smiling through the pain. But eventually, she realized she couldn't keep living in that house. She had to leave.

I remember starting to pay things off that were in my name, and I was starting to try to save a little bit of money money, my own money, because he was in charge of our finances. It took me well over a year just living in the same house with him and being paranoid and then being just angry and then being bitter.

Three years after her discovery, she finally saved enough money to move out. The new house wasn't much, but it was hers. She was free.

My realtor unlocked the door and we had walked in and she's like, Here it is. Here's your keys. Is this your house? I was like, Oh, my gosh, this is great. And then after she left, I sat in there on the floor and I cried, and I was excited and scared. Just really proud. And thinking like, Okay, this is going to be really hard. But I told myself that day, I'm going to do it. This is mine. This is something that he's not going to take from me. I'm going to do it by myself, me and my kids, and I'm going to be the best mom that I can be. This is the first day of the rest of my life.

There's one more Are you a woman to introduce you to, or maybe reintroduce you to, because we've told her story before on the first two episodes of Betrayal Weekly. She was the woman who got us thinking about this crime, two years ago. When she discovered what her husband did to her.

I couldn't think. I couldn't function. I mean, the kids had to sit me down at the table and force me to eat, and I just laid in bed and cried. I didn't just lose my husband. I lost my job. I lost my home. I lost my community.

I lost trust.

I lost safety. I really had to start over from square one.

Stephanie was married for 23 years, but then she discovered something horrifying on her husband's laptop.

He had a Flicker account that was filled with nude photos of me, hundreds of pictures. He explained that he puts the picture up in a chat room, and 25 people at a time can be in the chat room, but people come and go And so as they come in and out, these other men are explaining how they would rape me.

We asked Stephanie, what is it that only people who've experienced this crime can understand.

Every woman has that fear, that awareness that there could be a stranger that could jump out and assault me, rape me.

But for her and for women who've been through what she's been through, it's this other thing.

It's that when you go home at the end of the day and you crawl into bed with the man that you love, that should be the safest place you'll ever be in the world. I found out that that was the most dangerous place that I had ever been. And that is your real mind fuck.

Ember, Natalie, Stephanie, and Saskia, four women who wrote into our show with strikingly similar stories. All of these women survived drug facilitated related sexual assault. For three of them, non-consensual photos and videos were shared with strangers online. All of these women spent months, even years, in the dark, not knowing what their partners were doing to them. And they all thought they were the only one.

Nobody that I knew had been through anything similar. So even though I had all these people around, I still felt so alone and like a freak. The shame was really unbearable. Like, who am I going to tell this to?

It is such an isolating experience to feel like nobody else can relate to what I've been through.

So we decided to bring these four women together together.

To connect with somebody else who says, I get it. I see you. It's a gift.

You want to advance your education, but not on a traditional path? At Rasmussen University, you'll find flexible and engaging online experiences, tuition savings options if you qualify, exceptional student support, and much more. You may also qualify for a new laptop when you enroll in select online or on-campus programs. Enroll for a fully online program or on one of their 20 campuses across six states. Start when you're ready and get the support you need. Visit rasmussen. Edu.

Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the spirit daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver.

The Irish traveler said, When I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men.

Actor, storyteller, and unapologized apologetic, Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom-loving and different perspectives. I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius are misunderstood. A sun in Venus and Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership.

He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the is-ness of it all.

If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen. Listen to the spirit daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your podcast.

I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor.

Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The Internet turned on him.

If I could press a button and rewind it all I would.

But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here.

This case has gone viral.

The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you.

Please search for it.

This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said, she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. I have done nothing except get pregnant by the bachelor. Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous this lie that destroyed two families.

Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime.

He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground.

He identified Tremaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years. I'm like, Lord, this can't be real.

I thought it was a mistaken identity.

The best lie is partial truth. For 22 years, only two people knew the truth until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. After speaking to these four survivors, we knew we wanted to gather a group together because we're at an inflection point. Like us, the public is just waking up to this crime, opening their eyes to the fact that intimate partners can do things like this and share them on the internet. To get more victims to come forward and to expose how pervasive this crime is, we need to talk about it. So we set aside a Saturday, and we gathered Ember, Natalie, Stephanie, and Saskia on a video call. First off, I just want to say I am so grateful that you guys made time today. To make sure this was a safe experience for everyone involved, we also invited a facilitator. Hi, everyone.

My name is Megan Cutter, and I am the Chief of Victim Services at RAINN.

Rainn, the Rape Abuse and Incest National Network. Which is the nation's largest antisexual violence organization, and we operate the National Sexual Assault Hotline. Rainn has been consulting with us throughout this season.

I'm really honored and grateful to facilitate this conversation today.

For the rest of this episode, we'll be playing you excerpts from our group discussion. As a note, we'll be sharing more excerpts in a bonus episode. I thought we could kick off the conversation talking about this idea of community. What has it been like trying to find community or support groups after what happened to you. Saskia jumped in first.

I hadn't heard about any of this before it happened to me. And when I did try to reach out for help, I felt like because it was such a unique experience, nobody really wanted to touch it with a 10-foot pole. One of my favorite parts of all this is meeting other people who can relate to having these acts done by someone who is dear to you.

It's like, wow, you did this to the person you're supposed to love most in the world.

That's Stephanie, the woman who told her story on Betrayal Weekly.

I had no bad feelings about my husband. I trusted him 100%. And so what that told me is that my gut for who was good and who was bad was busted.

I felt a lot like you did, Stephanie, of clearly my ability to judge is broken.

That's Ember, the woman you heard at the top whose fiancee was assaulting her.

I had always prided myself on being a good judge of character and being able to read people. So that was a hit to my sense of safety, honestly.

It has been a real journey for me to get to the point of realizing that it's not my gut that's broken. It's him that's broken.

Natalie brought up something we hear about in so many of these stories.

Just talking with my perpetrator, I know that he normalized that, Well, I'm not the only one. There's more than just this site, or there's a lot of people doing it like it's normal.

My husband actually said to me, You know, otherwise, just participate in this and like it. Really? Well, not me.

It's almost like, because you don't want to participate, this is happening to you. I wouldn't have to do this if you were just a willing participant.

And also that idea, like Natalie said, they're trying to normalize their behavior and make us feel like we're the one that's wrong.

I completely get why people don't come forward because we've been so traumatized already, and it's so retraumatizing to have to then put your life on display. Going through the criminal proceedings. I had no idea how ashamed I would be in the process or how difficult it would be.

Saskia, you are so brave. I did look into trying to press charges against my husband, but I didn't have what it takes to sit there and to be shamed and have every decision in my life looked at.

100% I think that's one of the hardest parts that I still carry a lot of shame about is that I didn't have what it took to batter back against the justice system. I was being drugged and raped, and at one point, I woke up in attack. I remember going to law enforcement about two days later when I finally had my head about me, and I tell them what I knew, and they're Well, if it's been two days, the drugs are out of your system. It's really a he said, she said situation. You guys are in a relationship. We can't prove anything. There's nothing we can do about it.

I didn't report either. I try to remind myself about that being the best decision at the time that I made. I just was feeling guilty for not even thinking about being able to file a restraining order because I was financially dependent on him as well.

Then that's another part where people diminish what's happened to you because it's like, Oh, well, did you press charges? If your answer is no, automatically you lose credibility. If you really did that to you, you would have pressed charges. That's essentially what people believe.

There's no sure thing. So even if you had filed charges, I think if you look at the statistics of people who do report how few people that the perpetrator actually is convicted.

Our facilitator from Raine, Megan Cutter, jumped in to share a statistic.

Ninety 58% of perpetrators walk free.

And for every 1,000 sexual assault, 50 reports lead to arrests, 28 cases lead to felony convictions, and only 25 perpetrators are sentenced to some form of incarceration. These numbers shocked us. We knew that few perpetrators ever faced justice, but we had no idea it was this few. On the next episode of Betrayal, we dig into one reason why.

I said, That is not allowed. That is illegal. It's a crime. He can't do that. Come to find out. They're married. Come to find out. Here we are in 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, he probably was allowed to do that.

For resources on sexual violence, visit reine. Org/betrayal. Com. Betrayal. That's R-A-I-N-N. Org/betrial. You can also get free confidential 24/7 support through Raine's National Sexual Assault Hotline. Just text Hope to 64673. Or call 1-800-656 Hope. You are not alone. If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team or want to tell us your story, email us at betrayalpod@gmail. Com. That is betrayalpod@gmail. Com, or follow us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod. To access additional content and to connect with the Betrayal community, join our Substack at betrayal. Substack. Com. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. Don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five-star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeartPodcasts. The show is executive-produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Kaitlyn Golden, with additional production by Olivia Hewitt. Our supervising producer is Kari Hartman. Our story editor is Monique Laborde, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate producer is Leah Jablo.

Production management by Kristen Malkuri. Additional support by Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Allie Perry and Jessica Kreincheck. Audio editing by Tana Robbins with additional editing and mixing by Matt Dalvecchio. Special thanks to Saskia, her friends and family. And special thanks to Will Pearson and Kari Lieberman. The roundtable discussion was led with the help of RAINN, the Rape Abuse and Incest National Network. Thank you to our facilitator, Megan Cutter, and to Angelina Marcano for her support. Additional thanks to Jennifer Simmons Kaliba. The Trail's theme is composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by Mybe Music. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. You want to advance your education, but not on a traditional path? At Rasmussen University, you'll find flexible and engaging online experiences, tuition savings options if you qualify, exceptional student support, and much more. You may also qualify for a new laptop when you enroll in select online or on-campus programs. Enroll for a fully online program or on one of their 20 campuses across six states. Start when you're ready and get the support you need. Visit rasmussen. Edu.

Ego Woda is your host for the 2026 iHeartPodcast Awards, live at South by Southwest. Hello, Is anybody there? Raised by a single mom, Ego may have a few father-related issues. Are we supposed to talk about your dad? Her podcast, Thanks Dad, is full of funny, heartfelt conversations with actors, including fellow SNL alums, comedians, musicians, and more about life and their wonderfully complicated relationships with their fathers. I think and hope that's a good thing. Get to know Ego. Follow Thanks Dad with Ego Wotam and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

You know Roald Dahl. He thought up Willy Wanka in the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? Today? In the new podcast, The Secret World of Roald Dahl, I'll tell you that story and much, much more.

What?

You probably won't believe it either. Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been.

Okay, I don't think that's true.

I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Listen to The Secret World of RoleDoll on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Hilary Duff, singer, actress, and multi-platinum artist. You desire in family this picture, and that's not reality. My sister and I don't speak. It's definitely a very painful part of my life, and I Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.