Transcript of Scott Eastwood

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard, and I'm joined by Monica Padman.

Hi.

Hi.

Uh, we have a handsome actor alert. Big time handsome.

I love handsome actors.

Scott Eastwood. Oh, is he handsome. Scott Eastwood is an actor. Oh, and he hates being— I'm, I'm, I already, I forgot the lesson I learned in the interview.

He doesn't like being called—

no one does too, and I already knew that. Being called handsome, just what do you do with that? Anyways, I know what I would do with it. Uh, his credits include The Longest Ride, Regretting You, Wrath Man, Gran Torino, Fury, and his new movie out now, Lucky Strike. Please enjoy Scott Eastwood.

Hi.

We haven't met before, have we? No, no, no.

Hi, Monica.

Monica. Nice to meet you.

I remember meeting a man as handsome as you. It would sear in.

How are you guys doing? We're good.

Just fresh from the dentist. Oh, my teeth were jagged at the bottom. I didn't really even think about it, but my man pointed it out and he's like, you know, I could make that smooth. And I was like, yeah. I felt like I got upsold a little bit.

Do you grind? Is that why?

I mean, truthfully, I think when I've been in fights, I bite my fucking front of my teeth. There's a few events in my life where I'll bite the front of my teeth, and I think I just chipped off the ends.

You know, they say if you're grinding and you're not sleeping during the full moons, you probably have some sort of parasite, like worms.

Walk me through that. Wait, if you're not sleeping during a full moon, during the full moon, and you grind your teeth—

yep.

Why are the parasites responding to the full moon?

You know, I don't know, but I do know that that's a thing, and they've been talking about it since the dawn of time. Really? Native Americans have had that. They've known about that. Every sort of ancient culture has been talking about parasitic stuff during the full moon.

Oh wow.

Yeah, I think we chalk up a lot now to like, oh, that's woo-woo.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it's a thing.

It sounds adjacent to astrology for sure.

It's definitely. But then you talk to like doctors who, you know, are pretty intelligent, they're like, oh yeah, if you're grinding and you have trouble sleeping during a full moon, like check your gut.

Have you had a parasite?

I have.

There we go. Yeah, there we go. It feels personal. Yeah, it is, it is.

It's probably still ongoing. I've had H. pylori multiple times.

It's called H. pylori.

H. pylori.

And tell me about H. pylori.

H. pylori is a bacteria in your gut.

Okay.

A lot of people have it. They say 1 in 4 people have it.

Okay.

Then I've also had like some sort of version of worms.

Okay. Yeah, from traveling.

Traveling.

Do you know where you got the worms?

I don't know where I got it. No.

How did you figure that out?

I've struggled with gut issues through the years. I mean, because of all the traveling. When I was, you know, much younger, I was traveling all the time for surfing.

Okay.

So I would go to like Indonesia.

As a hobby or you were like competing?

No, as a hobby.

From what age?

I started surfing when I was like 10, 11.

Oh, you were in Hawaii at that point, right? You were in two areas that you could have really—

You're going to pick up some bacteria in those waters.

We just interviewed someone.

Yes.

Oh, who was in Bali? Yeah, on a trip. They got some kind of— not an official tour guide. And this gentleman was like, let me take you ladies to this incredible— you know about the such-and-such. And it's all these natural water slides that have eroded out of the volcanic— it was very cool sounding. And then pools of water, and it's great. So they do this, they have a great time. She had also had an incredible sunburn, so she missed the rash phase. Most people would have recognized they got a crazy rash right afterwards, but she didn't because of all this sunburn. And then what was it, like 5?

Like 6 years later.

6 years later. Staph?

It had been— no, it was—

it was some kind of wormy parasite that had just been in there for 6 years. And it had gotten like really debilitating. She couldn't move. And then they figured—

Totally fatigued. Yeah, yeah. No energy. And then they're like, oh yeah, you've had this thing for 6 years.

Oh, wow.

What actually got you to go to a doctor and go, something's fucked up?

Yeah, my friend, regular.

I mean, okay, sure, sure, sure. Some issues, some bowels. Yeah, evacuation schedule issues.

And then you think you're okay, and then all of a sudden you're like, maybe I'm not okay.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, so what does one do if they have that?

You gotta get on an antibiotic protocol.

Oh, you do?

Yeah, I think you had to take like 3 antibiotics all at the same time for like a couple weeks.

That's a lot.

I'm hopeful because I was on a PICC line for like 4 months. You know, antibiotics where you gotta shoot it in your body like 3 times day or twice a day.

What from?

Oh man, motorcycle accident that then I got a bunch of metal put in, and then that metal was infected. Then I got in a bicycle accident which broke all the metal, and then they went in there to fix that, they discovered this huge infection. So I had to, yeah, do that for months, shooting it in. And I'd like to think that although it also killed that, it would have killed something like that as well, because I was just carpet bombing my body for months.

I mean, a lot of people still try to take turpentine for things like that. They'll drink it. It's medicine from the 1800s. Yeah, it's like, yeah, it might work, but it also might kill you.

Also strips pain. I mean, I think that's the primary use of turpentine.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, so I want to start with an assumption and a disclaimer, which is if I were you, I would fucking hate talking about my dad, or I'd just be so sick of it.

Yeah, like, I know I'm gonna get asked.

It doesn't upset me at all. It doesn't?

No.

I mean, you know, I think more than anything If I get upset about something, it's the lack of thoughtfulness in a question in an interview. You've experienced that where you're like, have you done any research?

Are you a thoughtful interviewer or intention? You get the sense, oh, they're just trying to trap me into a really bad soundbite. I'm going to regret.

Exactly.

Yeah.

I don't want to trap anyone. I don't want any clickbait.

Yeah.

You're 40 now, right?

Yep.

But there's been waves of it where also it's like, shut the fuck up about my dad. And then other periods where you're like, oh yeah, I'm older now and I don't really.

Yeah. You kind of reach a tipping point where you're like, why do I care about that? Or I'm comfortable just being me now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. Okay, so let's start though. Your mom's Jacqueline.

Yeah.

You're born in Carmel-by-the-Sea.

I was.

Oh, beautiful.

Have you been to Monaco?

Yes, I have. Gorgeous.

Can you have awareness when you're young and you're born somewhere that it's significantly prettier than everywhere else? I mean, it's just what it is there, right?

I think, yeah, that comes with some age and perspective. Leaving, like anything, I thought it was quite small and I wanted more.

It is tiny, right?

It is. It's connected to the larger Bay Area, right? You can be in Santa Cruz in 30 minutes and then from Santa Cruz into San Francisco or San Jose.

But when you're there, you're there. I mean, it's like kind of—

yeah, it's a couple roads on an island a little bit, or a peninsula, I guess.

What were the kids and the parents like? What do people do there? It feels very like you're there to retire. I don't know what the industry is there. Like, was it mostly like wealthy families and that kind of thing?

It's not just wealth. I mean, there's middle and lower class for sure. Seaside and Marina and Salinas has got a lot of lower socioeconomic demographic. So it all sort of blends. Then the closer to the coast you get, the more upper class. But, you know, people do the same thing. I mean, they look to find ways to get into trouble and sneak out and go drink and in high school and do things you're not supposed to do.

Yeah, yeah. Were you there 0 to 10, then 14 to 18? Is that what it was?

Yeah, I was there I think 0 to 8, then my mom and I lived in Hawaii, and my sister—

she into dogs?

That's not the one that's into dogs.

Okay, because Kristen's like, I think I know his sister through dogs.

Yeah, that's Allison. She has a big dog rescue in Malibu.

Oh, okay, cool.

And then yeah, back to Hawaii for 8 or so years, and then back to Carmel for sort of the second half of high school.

Okay, so Jacqueline was a flight attendant?

She was.

With what airline?

She's gonna kill me because I'll missay this, but it's Hughes Air West, which then became maybe TWA, and then Northwest. I think they, uh, they sort of buy each other.

And did your parents meet on a flight?

No, no.

Damn it.

No, that would have been good because you've had the fantasy I have.

You're chatting with the attendant they're attractive and you're like, oh, could this be a romance?

Yeah.

Could we have like a night in Paris when we land?

Yeah, I think you're thinking more of like '50s flight.

Yeah, Pan Am.

Yeah, right now it's like not so much the fantasy.

It's like, no, get out of the way, move, get off the plane. Yeah, put your shit in front of your feet, don't put it in the overhead.

Exactly.

Well, how long was she doing it?

She did it for 14 or 15 years.

Okay, so a full career.

Yeah, she had a career.

So how'd they meet?

They were both living in Monterey, and they just— I think mutual friends.

Where's she from originally?

She's from Washington State.

What kind of gal is she?

Simple. Now she walks and collects shells on the beach daily. Still single. She raised two kids after her career. You know, she was a mother, and she did some interior design sort of on the side.

What took you guys to Hawaii?

She taught tennis there when she was in her early 20s, and she always loved it. And then my dad and her split, and she said, I'm going back to Hawaii.

So they had an amicable—

Yeah, they're great friends.

Oh, lovely. And what island were you on?

Kauai for a few years, then the Big Island. She moved to the Big Island because the school system on Kauai isn't very good. The school systems in general in Hawaii aren't some of the best, and there was a good school that she moved to for us in middle school and high school.

And were you going to a public school there?

I was, and then a private school, and then a public school.

How'd it work out being a haole? Because I've had some real dicey experiences down in Hawaii.

Yeah, yeah, that's a thing.

Yeah, yeah, that's still a thing. I'll give you an example. I was sitting in Paia on Maui, and I'm talking to this skinny white dude that works at this Paia organic pizza place. It's great. And he like grew up there. I'm like, how'd you do as a skinny white dude? On this island. And he's like, oh man, you need a niche. I happen to be really tiny, so I would go pig hunting with the dudes because I was tiniest I could get in to stab the boar once they had it down.

Yep.

He's like, so I had a role, but you really need a role.

You need a role. He's not wrong.

Was it intimidating when you got there?

Yeah, I know. I mean, nobody liked me. Luckily, my mom, I think she really pushed I had to be in sports, so she put me in football. So early age, I was doing Pop Warner.

Perfect. You've got built-in friends. Teammates.

Well, yeah, at the beginning, built in, you're one of two white kids on the team. Why are you here? Beat it, Howley.

Uh-huh.

But then I think as time progressed and they saw, oh, cool, he's willing to put the work in and take some hits, you become part of the pack. So that's good.

And did you find your way into the pack?

Yeah. Then you go and play another school. They might be like, beat it, Howley.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You gotta read.

So it's always touch and go in Hawaii.

Did you get your ass kicked?

Oh yeah. Oh yeah, from an early age, getting in lots of fistfights. You had to learn how to defend yourself, learn how to kind of navigate the waters and be like, okay, either I'm gonna get in a fight right now or I'm gonna figure out how to defuse this. Yeah, most the time it was getting in a fight, but then I think you start to earn your stripes and then it is like anywhere.

It seems scary.

It still is. The surfing culture in Hawaii, it's still very protected. Yeah, yeah, it's like a resource, right? Waves are a resource and there is a respect and pecking order that you have to respect, and that's part of the whole thing. And white haole guys are at the bottom of the totem pole.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Unless you're— who'd we interview? The big surfer.

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, Kelly Slater.

Kelly Slater.

I think even Kelly, he's not, you know, in Hawaii they don't care about the champ. They actually probably want to kick his ass if he steps out of line.

Absolutely. That makes sense.

Absolutely.

I've heard epic stories of dudes getting like literally punched on their surfboard, like gone away.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a thing.

And what about girls? Did you have girlfriends? Could you have romances?

Yeah, that's also— again, on an island, could be a resource. Uh, yeah, if you, you know, totally take interest to the wrong girl.

Yeah, that's nice.

It makes me think of— have you ever seen Officer and a Gentleman?

Uh-huh, of course.

And they kind of tell the backstory of why Richard Gere is such a badass, I think. And it's like he was a little boy in Thailand or Vietnam during the thing, and he's just getting his ass kicked by all local kids, and then, you know, you just had to raise up. It sounds a little bit like that.

It's a little bit like that.

So what grade did you leave there?

I left when I got in trouble. I got in some trouble.

What kind of trouble did you get in?

I'd like to think it was my first entrepreneurial experience selling pot.

Oh great. Yeah, yeah. Where were you getting it?

We raided a pot farm.

Great. You stole a ton of it.

Yeah, yeah.

Perfect. Perfect.

We're gonna buy it.

No, no.

Yeah, so we did a little boo-boo.

How How many of you?

There was, I think, 5 or 6 of us that hatched this plan in the night under moonlight. Going to steal the pot. Stole the pot, took it down to the beach, dried it out, and then we divvied it up. And then we were going to make some dough.

And were you going to move it on the beach or in school?

No, at school.

At school.

Sure, sure, sure.

Yeah.

The least easy to move things.

And then I don't remember somewhere along the line someone got pinched and then they ratted. Yeah, they rolled on everybody. Yeah.

Rats, right? That's why 8th graders don't make great criminals because they roll pretty easy. They roll pretty easy.

And were police involved?

No, they didn't really have any actual evidence, but they still kicked us out of school. I think there was enough people. I denied that.

Oh, wow. To this day.

Still?

You didn't do it?

Yeah.

So were you sent now to live with Dad, or did Mom go with you?

I went to go live with my dad.

It sounds like you were— were you living a pretty modest life in Hawaii?

Yeah. I mean, comfortable, but we didn't live lavish.

I guess I'm wondering if I knew my dad was your dad, I was like, where's the golf carts? Like, why don't I have all this?

You don't have a golf cart?

Yeah, why aren't I living out the toy?

Well, my dad's not like that, even when I was living with him or at all. He's not a material guy. He comes from a very different generation. I mean, you got to remember, he was born in 1930. Yeah.

Yeah.

So he saw the real lows of the Great Depression, and that stuck with him forever. He still to this day would be telling you to turn off a light if you left the house. Like, why the hell didn't you turn off the light?

Yeah, dads love to tell you to turn off the lights.

They do. I do too.

I'll go waste a ton of money in one domain and then I'll be like, that fucking light's on.

It's so crazy.

I mean, it's like primitive. There's something going on. It is like put the fire out. Is there something weird is going on?

I care more than I should about this weird frugality in just this one area.

Yeah, that's pretty insignificant in your total nut. It's not like you're going to move the needle if you really tighten up your electricity bill, especially now with LEDs, right? I mean, yeah, yeah, let them rip.

Sometimes I'll just leave them on just to spy.

Me too.

I literally will.

I'll just be like, gonna turn the light off. I'm like, you know what, I can leave it on. I get to make this decision now for me, for myself.

How was it when you dropped back into Carmel going into high school?

You know, you jump into a new high school, that's always a little wonky. Are you gonna be the one who's gonna get picked on? And that actually did happen. I think one of first months or two of high school, a guy, a bully, singled me out because I was the new kid. I didn't want to fight because I was like, I'm a new kid to school, why are you picking on me? One day after school, I said, enough's enough, let's go. And so then we went down to the place where everyone fights. It was like a big field.

Okay, great.

I remember it actually vividly because he's now one of my best friends, but he had an old camcorder and he was gonna film the fight.

Oh wow. Yeah, it could be nothing more awkward than you're going to fight a kid. For us, it was the Milford Cinema. That's where all went. And he's like, yeah, just give me 5, I gotta set up my tripod. Let me just block this really quick. Do you think you were gonna fight over there or— yeah, I'm just trying to figure out why my frame might shift. So he set up his camcorder.

Yeah, he had it in his hand. Oh yeah, I remember all the kids were parking and running down.

Not the bully, right? Just another friend?

No, just another friend. Now he's my best friend.

I thought the bully was like, yeah, filming and punching.

Well, no, no, I thought he's like making his tape, so I thought he would set it up on a tripod, then kick ass, and then watch it at home and love it.

Exactly.

You could see that as an incentive, right?

This is just another friend.

So does the tape exist?

It probably does, but we have no idea where it is.

Yeah. How did that fight go?

It went pretty good for me.

Oh, good, good, good, good. Oh, I would have had to get that tape.

I didn't want to fight because I had been in a lot of fights pre that, and I was like, I don't need to do that, start this school out like that.

We already did that.

We already did that. Like, why can't I just— okay. To my mom's credit, she had put me in martial arts very early, did a lot of taekwondo and boxing. I had a really good foundation for fighting, especially after being in all these fights with kids in Hawaii. So it was good because actually, now that I think about it, I did get in a lot of fights with different schools. That was the only fight I was in, I think, in that school. But then Carmel High would fight Monterey High. Oh great. And it was like rivalry because we had a football rivalry. So there would be like the outside fights.

Yeah, wonderful rumbles.

Yeah, it rumbles.

Oh, what a time to be alive. I know, what are we doing? We're just chimps. We're all like, this chimp's big, should I try it?

Yeah, I don't know why we have that. It doesn't end too, right? It's like a fight for resources, right?

Yeah, yeah. Interesting.

Who's cool? Who's gonna get the girl?

All the dude's got to hear is like one girl going like, oh yeah, his dad's bike, and then he's off to the races.

Oof. Yeah.

Yeah.

I guess when I think my conclusion is, is it's not as fun as I thought it might be.

It's just, if anything, you know, just because your dad has done something great doesn't mean you've done anything great. It doesn't mean, you know, either you're a good dude and you're cool or you're not. And that takes you a lot farther than whether your dad was cool or not in life.

Did you get to be on sets a lot as a kid?

I did. Summers we would go, and I remember getting to go and see him in Houston working on the space movie. Oh, space.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cowboys. Space Cowboys.

Space Cowboys. Exactly.

We got it.

Yep.

Wait, it was him and Tommy Lee Jones?

Tommy Lee Jones, Donald Sutherland, and James Garner, who was great. I got to meet him and get to know these legends.

Your dad presents, of course, as very alpha, but is that his vibe in real life? I mean, I'll cut to the chase. I'm curious how he dealt with Tommy Lee Jones, who I hear is really, really hard. And I'm just wondering if he had the, like, alphaness to keep him.

I think everybody has got a lot of respect for him, so I don't think people try to—

They don't act up around him.

Yeah. You know, he's very calm and even keel, and he doesn't raise his voice ever. I mean, he would with me.

As he should. That's what dads do.

I heard a legendary story. I'm sort of going to paraphrase it. And I'll probably tell it a little wrong, but Kevin Costner sort of going through maybe the Kevin Costner rise to fame and maybe got a big ego.

Sure, sure.

Blah, blah, blah. But they were doing Perfect World, and they're both starring in this movie. My dad is directing it. Apparently, Kevin wouldn't come out of his trailer for some reason. And my dad doesn't do trailers and things. He's like, "Just be on set. Stay on set." He always told me too, as a kid, "You want to learn how to make movies? You want to learn how to do this?" You stay here with everybody else and you make the damn movie. Yeah, yeah. Apparently he didn't want to come out of his trailer for some reason.

He might have been entertaining.

He might have.

He also could have been, um, going to the bathroom.

He could have been irregular. He could have had a parasite.

He could have had a parasite.

We don't know.

That's true.

But I think his reputation is he's hard on directors. This holds.

So he just said, we'll send him home then. And everyone said, what do you mean? Well, he's in the scene. Send him home. So he sent him home, and I guess they just went to Kevin and said, "Hey, you're gonna go home for the day. You don't need him." He said, "What do you mean? I'm in the scene." "Well, I guess you're not anymore." Oh, boy.

That train left the station.

Clinton changed that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, you know, that's the pecking order. And so I think the next day he was on set, ready to go.

Your dad also infamously does, like, half a take, right? This is the— I've had friends who have done his movies. I've even heard stories where it's like they're doing, like, kind of a rehearsal, and they're gonna do a pyro rehearsal, and they shoot that, and he's like, "Okay, next thing." We got it. So yeah, you're not out on set. Like, he's moving quick.

He's moving quick, and you better come ready to work. You better know your shit. Yeah. And actually, I think, you know, I mean, you both are performers and done this a ton. Sometimes if that's done right and the space is held correctly, it's all respected and everyone's quiet and you're rehearsing, sometimes the best stuff just comes.

Absolutely.

If you're able to do that. He would always tell me this trick. He would just go to the cinematographer, just I'm rolling. And you wouldn't tell anybody. Everyone's comfortable. They're not thinking about anything.

Exactly.

There's no nerves.

Yeah, that's the move.

Yeah, it is.

Did you have interest in acting as a kid?

You know what movie I would say really made an impression on me was Endless Summer. I don't know if you've ever seen it.

40 years ago.

Okay. So it's Bruce Brown making one of the most iconic surf films of all time. It's more than just a surf film, though. It's a movie about traveling the world and about travelers that happen to be surfers. But experiencing all this culture.

And the premise is they just chase the summer.

They chase the summer. So cool.

Yeah, it's bigger than surfing, that concept.

It is. They just happen to be doing surfing along the way, which is a beautiful sport. It's in nature. But they go to all these continents and they travel the world, and you get all this, like, spice of culture and this life. And I always thought, that's my dream, to chase summer around the world. Yeah, I don't know if it happened to be like, be a surfer, but it was Experience. Oh yeah, it was an experience.

Yeah. How do I stay in summer all the time?

Oh, I love that.

Or whatever summer represents at all time.

Yeah.

So you go to Loyola.

I ended up at Loyola. I bounced around. I did Santa Barbara City College.

Me too.

Oh, no ways.

Yes.

Yeah.

One year at Santa Barbara City College. Beautiful campus for a city college.

Amazing. Yeah.

You're on that little bluff looking out at the ocean. I remember I got a microwave burrito on my first day there and I was sitting on the grass and I'm from Detroit and I'm like, get outta here. This is a fucking school. This is a college.

Yeah.

This is a community college.

I know.

Okay.

So you started there.

Did you live downtown or in Ivy?

No, I lived on the Mesa in a little apartment there. I remember it was $12 a unit or something, you know.

Oh yeah, for school.

For school. And you could enroll for, I don't know, a couple hundred bucks.

Yeah.

I worked as a barback at the Brew House. I don't know if you ever went down to the Brew House.

It's State Street?

No, not on State Street. That's Santa Barbara Brewing Company. I think it's still there, actually. It's down by where the Spearmint Rhino and all that area is. I had a couple friends that worked there, yeah. Bit of a seedier area.

Yeah, I love it. There's train tracks out there. Yeah, I lived on Bath right behind that.

Oh yeah, I barbacked there.

I had a bike. Motorcycle?

Nope, no, no, bicycle.

Yeah, didn't everyone have bikes there? That's like a thing.

Yeah, you're right. And also my dad wouldn't buy me a car. Yeah, because I made that pitch and that didn't go over well.

This is fucking hysterical.

What is?

If your fucking dad is Clint Eastwood, he doesn't buy you a car?

No, I like that.

Yeah, I know you like it, but I would be furious.

Well, I think at the time I was. At the time I was like, come on, dude, you won't even notice this.

Yeah, you can't even find this withdrawal from your account.

But that's not the rationale. It's not like I can't afford it, and then you'd be like, well, that's bullshit. But he'd just be like, no, you don't deserve—

that was my switch. I bought a car, couldn't afford it, but I wasn't resentful because my mom wasn't loaded. But if my mom was loaded, I think I would have been pissed.

But you're not just like automatically entitled to a car. Exactly. At 16 or whatever.

Probably for the best. Probably for a lot of reasons. One, the value of money and what that is and like learning respect for that and like your job. But also probably giving a kid a car at 18, 19. What do you do? You're drinking and driving?

Are you doing something stupid?

He might have been worried that you are going to get in trouble with anything like that. Yeah.

And I think probably the value of time and money. I think that's like the principal lesson that he wanted me to know. This doesn't grow on trees and you better go on and earn it.

How many nights a week as a barback were you making love to strangers? Several of the nights a week.

Yeah, I think 4 nights a week.

Yeah, yeah.

Rest days.

You're like kind of all my fantasies I have. Like, I'm just imagining being as good-looking as you in Santa Barbara as a barback.

You are projecting a lot of fantasy on him.

I'm trying to own it, but yeah, yeah. I'm like, oh my God, what? You needed a 2-seater bike? You needed a tandem bike. What if you took the girl out from the bar and she's like, what, why do you drive a tandem bike? Yeah, because I generally have passengers, girl. You riding? Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking that your keys are actually in your hand before you close the car door. Have you ever stood in a parking lot full of sun staring at your keys sitting right there on the seat, 4 inches away and completely useless to you? It's a very specific kind of humbling. Yeah, checking first is a good idea. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. And for fast, reliable help when you need it, add an Allstate Roadside Plan today. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary. Insurance and roadside assistance plans are subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Insurance provided by Allstate North American Insurance Company, Northbrook, Illinois. Roadside assistance plans provided by Allstate Motor Club Incorporated, an Allstate affiliate.

So how long were you there? A year?

I was there for about a year or so. I had this one moment, actually, that kind of woke me up from being just a kid in college and being a barback. I went to a restaurant, actually, in Santa Barbara.. And this guy I had known from growing up, he was in Hawaii growing up, and he'd gone out many years prior. He was like 6 years older than me, and he'd gone to college in Santa Barbara, and he was there barbacking. And I was like, hey, you're working here. I was like, but you didn't you go to college here? And like, why are you still working as this barback? And I was like thinking, oh man, I better get my shit together.

That's going to be me, right? That's going to be me.

If I don't start working on my career now while I'm in college. So I packed up after a year and a half or something at Santa Barbara, and I moved to LA, and I was like, I got to get this going while I'm in college and do both things in parallel.

Meaning acting in college?

Yeah, just act. I mean, I didn't know exactly if acting was going to be the thing I was going to do, but at that moment I was like, I want to give it a shot.

Yeah, yeah.

And see if I can become an actor and make it. And support myself. Not that anything is wrong with being a barback, just I wanted more.

Yeah. In fact, there's a lot that's right with being a barback. I almost even think you might get to our station in life and go, oh right, no, it was never better than me, you know? Yeah. Oh yeah, it was simpler. I didn't have all these status concerns.

Yep.

And that was pretty groovy.

Like when your parents tell you, these are the best years of your life. Yeah, exactly.

Enjoy them. Yeah. You don't listen.

You can't listen.

Yeah. How was Loyola?

Yeah, it was cool. I went to Santa Monica after that. Santa Monica City College.

Me too.

There you go.

Guys.

Yeah, yeah. I couldn't get into a 4-year, so that's why I went to Santa Monica.

Not as pretty of a campus.

Not as pretty. Not as good as Santa Barbara. This place is cool. And then I actually applied a couple of times. I might have been rejected twice. I can't remember. I know I was rejected once to get into that school. And so then I had to wait another semester or another year, whatever it was. And and apply again, try to get in, and then I finally got in. I just really finished there. It was funny, by the time I had gone to Loyola Marymount, I had worked all over the world because I had been in City College, I don't know, 4 years, a couple in Santa Barbara, a couple in Santa Monica. I had gotten acting jobs, and I had been to Iceland. I had been to Europe and London and making movies.

I'd been all during Loyola.

I would get a job and ask my job That was valet parking cars at the time.

Chase Crawford, he also—

he was a valet.

So jealous.

Jeffrey, job I always wanted.

Well, it was great because it was like outdoor, you know, and you're like moving and you're in the sun.

Yeah, he crashed a car. Did you crash any cars?

I didn't crash any cars. Maybe Nick, but nothing you had to report. And so I would ask my job if I could leave, if they were cool with it, and then I'd have to ask the school if I could bob and weave and figure out how you get my work done but also go do this movie, which was like an opportunity. So by the time I got to Loyola, I was more, what am I doing here? Like, all these kids are freshmen in a dorm.

You feel old?

I was like, I'm old, and, and working. People are asking me to check in for class, and I go, I'm paying to be here. I don't need you asking me. I've got a real job. So I was kind of like, this is weird, but I got through it.

I similarly— it took me like 3 or 4 years as well to go through the city college, get my associate's, transfer to UCLA. And yeah, when I got to UCLA, I was only like 3 years older than everyone, or 4, but I was like super into the Groundlings. That was kind of my real life. And I remember, yeah, feeling very old on that campus. I also smoked and nobody smoked, and I'm like an old piece of shit at this place. Yeah, I remember feeling like—

you're like Haggard.

I felt like a dirtbag.

Yeah, you were looking at the sorority parties.

Where's everyone going? Everyone's going— you guys went to a football game? I mean, I just wasn't having that total college experience.

Yeah, yeah, I think similar.

You know, '06, you did Flags of Our Fathers, which would have been during that period. Did you go to Detroit for Gran Torino? Did you shoot there?

I did.

How was your experience? It was fine.

It was fine. It was good. We stayed in a really— actually, you know, because Detroit, but it's like a really nice part, Birmingham, and a really bad part. So they kind of ride like a fine line.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you were shooting in The exciting area.

Exciting.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, sure. Walk me through again. I know at that time you're like 20-something years old, but yeah, initially you were going by Scott Reeves. You're like, I'm not, not doing the dad thing. I'm not gonna do it.

I don't know what I was thinking. Now I look back at it going, I don't care, right? Gone by my name, it's fine. Eastwood, whatever. But I think I wanted to understand if I could make this work and do it on my own. And you know, you want to prove something to yourself, probably, of course, father, probably people in town. And then you start working, and then you realize it's more about doing the work and living in a hotel room across the globe, and all this stuff doesn't really matter at the end of the day. It's like, you've got to do the work.

Yeah.

Yeah. Do you think it was motivated out of your fear of the public's perception of you being a nepotistic— sure, baby— or Was it more motivated out of dad? Like, "I'm gonna show Dad I'm gonna do this without any help." Maybe a little bit of both. Maybe a mix.

Yeah.

But definitely, probably like, "I'm me. I'm gonna try to go do me." Yeah, you're your own person.

Eastwood's also— It's not Smith. It's just so clear immediately, you know?

It's definitely not Smith.

Yeah. I've never had a friend with the last name Eastwood.

Have you? No, until now.

Yeah, until starting today.

Until now.

But I've heard you say that you're like ultimately quite happy it went this way. But your dad was a hard-ass, right?

It was tough on his sons. Oh, sucker for his daughters.

Oh, that's cute.

Would you resent your sisters at all? Like, God, why, they got it made.

I think now I'm like, what did you put me through? And look at that, what's going on here? Yeah, balance of fairness is not mathing. Yeah, but no, I love them all.

You're fine with it?

It's all for the best.

You do 3 movies in a row with your dad. That's also complicated, I would imagine.

Well, I don't think it was probably in a row. Definitely not. You know, you start working in little things. There was probably a lot of credits that weren't because they're student movies and stuff that never saw the light of day. But you start working, you start taking acting classes, you do improv classes like The Groundlings, you start auditioning like a madman. I remember there were times there were like 2 or 3 auditions in a day. This is way before the phone and the cell tape and stuff. You had to drive around the city still with the Thomas Guide.

Yeah. Oh, I spent like 50 hours a week driving to commercial auditions, and I just never got one for like 6 years. And I'm like, my goodness, the hourly rate— when I finally booked the buyout for $2 grand, I'm like, I'm making 1 cent an hour.

It's terrible.

I had this up terrible the last—

there's so much PTSD driving around LA because you're like, oh, that's where I auditioned for that. They're always popping up.

And like you said, I mean And at a certain point you're like, okay, I'm gonna give this till 30, but if at 30 this ain't working, I gotta find a new gig.

Yeah. Did you feel like you fit into the actor world in LA? Did you feel like an outsider, or did you feel immediately embraced?

Never felt like I fit in. Still don't even feel right. I love the act of storytelling, whether it's acting or being a part of the creative process. Love it. Intellectualizing about it, having long talks about acting and things. Not really for me. Yeah, that doesn't mean, like, you don't have to put in the reps in the gym.

No, you got to figure out what works for you, I think. But that doesn't mean that's interesting for you to hear about how I figure out how to be believable.

Yeah, my dad was never one to intellectualize about it. He's like, just go tell the truth, man. Figure it out. Come prepared. Do the job, right? There's other things outside of the industry that are interesting.

Yeah, he's unique in that he didn't live in LA.

Well, he did when he was quite young, but then he moved out 60 years ago as soon as he could. And I did the same.

Yeah. You live in San Diego?

I live in Texas. Austin, Texas.

Wow.

But I lived in San Diego for many years. I pretty much left after college. I didn't live here very long. I was like, the city is just too much for me.

And do you think you paid any price for that as far as like working? I mean, clearly not. You've worked consistently.

I've debated this with people. I've talked about this ad nauseam. I'm sure not being in the same rooms with creatives and being here.

All right, I'd— weird dinner and talk to this person.

You'd be great for this thing you should look at. I'm sure there is, but the saying goes, if it costs you your peace, it's too expensive. And this place was costing me my peace. Okay, Fury, incredible experience.

Yeah, hard. I want to hear about it. Oh, I made a movie with Peña, so I got to hear his whole version of that, and then interviewed Jon Renthal and heard his take on Shia during that, which is really fun. We didn't talk to Pitt about Fury, but what a fascinating life experience. Yeah, who's the director?

David Ayer.

Did he want you guys to box?

He did. We did that quite a bunch, I think, in the early days before we started filming. We wanted people to bond. He also wanted people to maybe feel the jungle, monkey politics.

Uh-huh. Having to box your co-stars should be highly memorable.

Yeah, you know, no, we did, we did rounds, so everyone would box everyone. And look, it was called boxing, but it was no punching in the face, right?

Oh, okay.

It wasn't really sparring, it was touch.

Just wanted the boys to get intimate. Exactly. And how did you do with Shia? Because John was like, at first he's like, oh God, fuck this guy with the fucking method. And I can't remember if he said it was like midway through, he's I was like, this guy's fucking great. There's just no way around.

Like, the results are there.

Look, Shia is clearly tormented and has maybe got some stuff going on.

Certainly addiction.

Yeah. And it was tough. There was sort of an incident that happened. I've talked about it. Brad Pitt sort of broke up a little— a tense moment.

I didn't even know about that.

Well, he was very method, from what I recall. He pulled out one teeth. I think I heard that before we even started shooting. And I remember being in the— in the— look on your face. No, no, sorry, that was a different thing. He pulled out his tooth, but then he cut himself. Okay. And I remember thinking, okay, this guy's crazy. Yeah, I'm just gonna keep clear from this guy. I don't play this game. You go and do that. But yeah, there's plenty of ways to do a performance in a movie and be professional also, right? But one day he was having an episode and thought that I shouldn't be spitting tobacco on the tank.

Okay.

Which was in the script.

Oh my God.

Dipper.

Dip.

Yeah, but it wasn't real. And then finally I just said, enough's enough. I said, hey, fuck you. I said, stop pulling your shit. I said, I'm gonna whoop your ass. And then, you know, he got, you know, he popped froggy, and then everyone broke it up.

And oh wow, David Ayer must have been like, flowers are blooming. He's planted the seeds.

Rolling.

You wanted a lot of attention. He likes that.

I could never do it, but I am fascinated with the idea of being the director who's like Svengali-ing all these weird onset dynamics.

You would get in a fight with Shia.

Oh yeah, or love him. One or the other.

Maybe both. But if he was talking—

oh no, I don't have a lot of tolerance for— yeah, I can just say it, like, whatever your process is, fucking great. Handle that before you hear action. Handle that before we get called to set. I don't need to be in a 50-minute blocking rehearsal because your character won't hold that pan. I've been in that situation. When you figure out whether your character can hold that pan, come get me.

Everybody's contributing, everyone's doing a thing, but you can't stop the train, right? It's a moving train. Exactly. And grow the fuck up. Yeah, you know, it's like, just the director wants you to do something, if it's something crazy, okay, then hey, maybe that's too far, but But be collaborative. You can do whatever performance you want to do holding the pan or not holding the pan.

Yeah, right.

Exactly. How far into production was that little dust-up?

Oh, it was probably midway. Everyone had moments with Shia that were, I think, at one point gonna come to blows or not.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh my God.

It's funny, the film industry, it attracts psychopaths because it's art, right? It's art and business, and they kind of intersect. Yeah.

A lot of delusion and self-grandeur.

Yeah. You have a desire to be observed.

Yeah, so narcissism.

Yeah, yeah, like low-grade narcissism up to maximum narcissism.

Yeah, yeah. Or just mentally ill too. Yeah, a lot of mental illness.

True.

There is. And in fact, there's a handful of kind of legendary actors where it's like, yet the performances are so good, they're so emotionally available, and they're unhinged. I'm not shocked. Like, I can't do what certain actors can do. I've never even gotten there in real life, much less on command.

Exactly. And that's why they're so fascinating to watch.

Yeah.

So that's why some of the forgiveness for behavior, which I don't excuse, because when bad behavior is bad behavior, it's like, this is a place of work. The crew got to go home. Everyone wants to be happy. People deserve to be respected. Doesn't matter if you're picking up a piece of trash or if you're saying the lines or if you're holding the camera. Everybody has the same respect.

Yeah.

Decency. So it's like when you start infringing on that as a place of work, That's when it gets tough for me because I'm like, beat it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, no one's got tolerance for that.

Yeah, yeah.

But at the same time, when you see that performance and you're like, holy shit, that's magnetic, that's really interesting to watch.

Yeah, it is. It's a tricky—

it is a hard— yeah, you can't really say hard and fast. It really comes down to like, how good is the person? I don't know, Sean Penn apparently is not a walk in the park.

Yeah, like, I've all met him personally, and so I've always had a nice thing with him personally, but I've never worked with him. I know he's quite—

I just happened to read this thing about the moment he got his Oscar, and he said, look, I know I've made it really hard for you guys to like me. It was his own self-awareness. For him to do what he does, which I can't do, it's uncomfortable for him. And when people are uncomfortable, they don't act their best.

Yeah, a lot of insecurity too, right? Comes with acting sometimes, because people, they're so tormented, and then they're so insecure about their performance or what they're doing. Then they overcompensate with this confidence or fake bravado. And then it, it's an ugly sort of cycle because you're like, hey man, just be nice and cool, right? Just be cool. Let's just all just be—

and yeah, it's a scary job. You could embarrass yourself every time they say action, and that could be on a huge screen that everyone could watch. Let's all acknowledge, yeah, it's a very vulnerable, embarrassing endeavor. How will we navigate it?

Yeah.

Were you in love with Brad Pitt like I am?

Oh yeah, he's the best. Consummate pro. You're watching performances, you you're lost watching them while it's happening. You're like, oh, fuck, I have a line coming up.

Yeah, I'm just watching fucking the movie.

So good. You can't— it's unbelievable. And then he's the nicest guy on top of it and just a total pro. Brad's great.

Can I ask about your girlfriend? Sure. How long were you guys together?

Well, are you talking about my girlfriend passed away? Yes. We were together for 3 or 4 years.

This is one of the craziest ways I've ever heard someone's died, is her airbag went off and it was defective.

Yeah, yeah, I had a, um, a recall on the airbag, and, uh, and, and what would have been a, a fender bender, probably most people would survive. Yeah, she, uh, she was essentially shot by the airbag.

Oh my God, that's That's horrifying.

And—

So sad.

How are you juggling what I would imagine, like, for me, if I were you at 28?

That sounds about right.

You just finished Fury.

I was on another film set at the time. And as you know, being on a film set when someone passes or something happens, it's really tough. And this had happened before, actually. I had lost Paul Walker on Fury, and he was one of my—

Oh, you guys were—

Yeah, close friends. When you're on a film set, you don't— You don't have time to grieve because the show must go on.

You might be shooting the happiest scene your character has an hour after you hear this.

Yeah. So you can't fly home. You're stuck. You've gotta work. I got the call actually during a filming day. And I think I did a classic defense mechanism, just punt that to later.

Compartmentalize.

Compartmentalize that to later.

Yeah, that's gonna be miserable, and we're gonna deal with that at some point. That's not today.

Yeah, brutal having to deal with that and then not being able to go through that. I grieve later, and that's not a great thing because I think you do want to grieve with the people that are around that you didn't know that were part of their lives as well. Yeah, that's like an important part of the grieving process.

I agree. It's kind of the sweetest, nicest part. And then you go to the funeral and you think that's gonna be miserable. It's like, no, you see all these people that are dealing with the same thing. It can be weirdly beautiful if you get to do that part.

I never got to do it. I think I compartmentalized it so much, I couldn't go to the— I don't actually remember if I couldn't because of filming or if I just completely blacked it out, but I had to process that grief later. That was tough.

If I were you and I was in that situation, there'd be some interesting balance between having just done Fury. I'm on a set, things are finally going great. And I would've been like, "Oh, right. Yeah. I don't get to have anything great." Like, "The shoe's gonna drop, and here it is." Do you have the kind of "shoe's gonna always drop" mentality?

No, not anymore. Maybe with my parents a little bit because they're older, and that does scare me, being on a film set and having to deal with that. You know, I don't think people talk enough— like, you know, you know, you could be in a hotel room across the globe. It's a lonely endeavor, right? It's not always— people see on the thing and they go, "Well, that's amazing. Oh my God." Oh my gosh, but it's months sometimes of living out of a hotel room, and it's like that. And then you combine what happens in real life because people die and pass and you miss things. It's tough.

Yeah, the thing that started getting to me about it was I felt like, well, A, it was so fun for a while. I just loved going out of town. I love the bubble. I love the anonymity. I love that I don't have to deal with any of my problems for 2 months. Like, that's all the upside. That's very attractive. But I kept feeling like, oh, I'm just hitting pause on my life all the time. It's like I'm taking these 2 and 3 month pauses where my real life can't really grow and exist and have roots and propel forward because I've hit pause.

Yeah, you're missing people's birthdays, weddings, you're missing kids' graduation from high school, you're missing all the things of life. So there is a toll you pay. Pay for doing that and having this called fantasy pause thing. Yeah, but you do pay for it.

Yeah, it's a very punctuated existence.

And then there's like the slowdown too, which I find can be— if you're not careful and you don't stay— for me, I got to stay busy, I got to stay active, I got to stay moving and doing things. The heightness of being on set and everything's happening. Go, go, go, go, go.

Currently, like, you're pretending right now you're getting ambushed by Nazis during the day.

That's pretty heightened.

Yeah, in this movie.

Oh, in this movie? Yeah.

Did you at all wrestle— another thing that would have happened to me is if you took my girlfriend from me at 3 years, I might have idealized that and made that something that really kind of no one could compete with because it was taken and I don't know where it was gonna go. So I just think in the absence, or when something's taken from you like that, did that mess with you at all?

Yeah, I mean, losing somebody when you're that intimate with them and you think they're just an incredible person and you admire them and you share time with that person, it's, it's always tough. I have lost a lot of people in my life. I lost a pretty good friend in my late, late teens. I've just lost a lot of people. Yeah, maybe I've become I'm better at accepting life and death because I've gone through it a few times. Yeah, I don't know if I answered that question.

You did. I just think when relationships don't run their natural course, that's confusing.

It's confusing. I'd probably put a wall up.

Or they end not because of a reason you would have picked, but they had to end. They can become just a little abstract in your mind.

Yeah. And will anyone ever be—

yeah, unfinished business. Maybe a little delusion about it, I think, as well.

The mind's got, like, a very powerful way of remembering all the nice parts. All the nice parts.

Yeah, you're kind of forgetting. If I died, my wife will forget I clear my throat every 9 minutes. In a year, she'll forget I did that.

And she wants to kill you right now.

She hasn't yet, but yeah.

Or no, really what happens is she'll remember it and just be like, I miss it. I mean, that's what— that's what will happen.

Yeah, she convinced herself she liked the throat clearing.

Sometimes I do that when I'm around my parents. My parents and they're driving me nuts, I do say like, "I'm gonna miss this one day." Yeah. So it's like good to remind yourself in those moments.

I don't know how you feel about ghosts or if you believe in them at all. I probably for years was like, "That's not a thing." Yeah. But I got to go to a healer in Bali—

Ooh.

—and have an experience only summarized by It was an out-of-body experience with the people I have lost. Wow.

Oh, wow.

And I would recommend her to anyone and everyone that is planning on going there. You have to book her out because she's very in demand, but it is an incredible out-of-body experience. So I feel like I've gotten to see some of the people from my past.

Is the experience a joyful experience? Or is it more of a peace of mind experience? Like, oh good, they're still floating around. Like, what is the takeaway?

I think both of those things. It's highly emotional. It's most clear-headed but also the most lucid you've ever been.

It's hard to— shrooms and coke at the same time, zero, nothing.

No, no, I mean, yeah, I know, comparing these experiences. Yeah, yeah, more powerful than any drug.

Whoa, and there's no drugs involved? Zero drugs.

Zero drugs. And I feel always woo-woo, like, telling people about it, but I'm like, people have to understand. People have to get to experience this because it's so beautiful. We're gonna get you to go.

Have you been to Bali? One time with my mom. Okay. I'd like to go as a grown-up, big boy.

Okay.

You can see your dad if you go. Oh, I would love that.

I really would love that.

If you want, I'll get— that's amazing. It's extremely powerful.

Wow. Now that you said that, I'm intrigued. Yeah. Yeah. I want to apologize.

You get some peace and closure. Are you conversing or it's like more— I mean, maybe you can't even put it into words, really.

You have to experience it. Okay.

Wow. That's incredible. That's incredible. I'm glad you got that.

It's a great lesson for people listening, right? That's like, say the thing you want to say. Pick up the phone, tell them you love them, even if you're in a fight or pissed off. They ain't going to be around forever., and that might be a regret.

Yeah, the math you don't do is like, oh, I'm going to be living long after, and I will live with all those decisions. Yeah. Okay, this is just a full circle thing that I must acknowledge, because I have been telling my daughters for 7 years that the song Wildest Dreams is about me. Then we interview Alexander Skarsgård, and I found out, my God, that song's actually about him. Really? I mean, yeah, that's what That song about—

did they date? Yes.

They had a dust-up like you and Shia. No, but it wasn't broken up by Brad Pitt.

Dust-up. Not a good dust-up.

Sexy dust-up.

Yeah, she wrote a song about him. Yeah, exactly.

He's so tall and handsome as hell. I'm surprised when you did the video she didn't like go, hey, by the way, you're playing Alexander Skarsgård, so if you could be as tall as possible, stand up a little bit more.

He spoke very highly of her. Yeah, yeah.

But anyways, what full circle. So I finally met who it was actually about, and now I'm meeting you, who was in the video. In the video, yeah.

How do you know it wasn't about me?

Well, exactly. It seems like—

because this song predates the video. I could figure that out. Yeah, busted. Although it could have been a romance and she wrote a song about you and then she cast you.

Exactly. She did cast me.

Are you here to break the news? Is this the moment? Is this the fire you off?

Quite the moment.

It's almost the moment, but it's not You let us know.

You recognize the stakes of that. Yeah, well, that's the thing, right?

The stakes of even dating Taylor Swift is you could have a song written about you. That's right.

And you could have the Swifties love or hate you forever until the end of time.

That's right.

And if you take a red scarf or something, whatever the line is, you're enemy number one. How did you get that?

She just picked up the phone and called me.

She did? She did. And did she say to you, oh, I saw you in blank? Well, first off, she called.

I had no pre-warning. You know, a A lot of times people are like, hey, somebody wants to call you, and then they call you and you're like, yeah, okay, I'll take that call. She was like, hey, this is Taylor Swift. It's like unknown number. What? Okay. Uh-huh.

Wow, what a call.

This is so cool. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

I might need to FaceTime.

Yeah, I was intrigued because of the creative behind the video mostly too. She wanted to do like an Out of Africa type thing, right? It was make this cinematic film. The music industry, they don't do that anymore. It's not the '90s, and we don't have these big sort of videos. There's only a couple artists like Taylor Swift that you can do that or afford to make these sort of things. And then I remember telling my agents, and none of them wanted me to. They were like, this is a bad idea.

Do not seem like a vertical step.

No, they were like, do not do a Taylor Swift music video. And I said, nah, you know, I don't agree. Think that she's she's cool and she has a really cool idea for this thing. And I said, I think it's a cool creative thing.

Yeah, yeah, let's do it. Good for you. That would have been a regret.

Did you hang with her on set and stuff? I did. And did you enjoy her company? She's amazing. Yeah, she's a monster, man. I, I'm in awe of her. She's incredible. How many Fast have you done? 2, 3? I've been in 2.

You've been in 2 Fast and Furiouses.

Is there another one coming?

So they say. Wow.

That would be Fast 11?

Maybe Fast 10 Part Dos. Oh, okay. Is that 11?

Wait, you didn't meet Paul on that?

No, I knew Paul since I was probably, like, when I was 18. 17, 18. From surfing?

Surfing, jiu-jitsu.

We were just kind of brothers. He was like a mentor to me. He was like a big brother. He just was like a great mentor to me in the business, in life. We would go surf the Channel Islands together a lot. We would go down to Mexico and surf. And then it was post when he died that I came in and did this thing for Fast. So it was very nostalgic.

Yeah, that's lovely.

What's that set like?

Big. Yeah. A lot of personality.

Yeah, a lot of personalities. They've been doing it for like, what, 25, 30 years now? It's a very unique property. Very unique. Vin Diesel, no disrespect, he's an enormous movie star. I mean, probably like the highest paid movie star other than Downey, yet he's only in those movies.

Those are his thing.

He's in like a TV show, episodic TV. Yes, biggest. Yeah, every episode's a billion dollars.

How lucky to get a job like that.

One character for 30 years, I mean, you make like $500 million.

Knock on wood.

Yeah, you know, how do you do with all the alpha energy? I'm good with it.

I don't try to— I just say, lock horns, you stick out of it, you guys do whatever you're gonna do. I'll be where you need me when you need me. When little— I'll be here on set hanging out. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

Okay, Lucky Strike, this is your second movie with this guy, Rod Lourie. Yeah, Rod Lourie. Tell me about him. Why is he making only war movies?

You know, Rod started out in the '80s or '90s as a filmmaker. I don't know if you remember movies like The Contender, Nothing But the Truth. But these were movies at the time, in the '90s. He really likes boxing, politics, and war.

Uh-huh. Those are, I think, like the three things—

maybe football, right? So, you tell what you know. At the time, he was put up for— like, one of these movies were gonna win an Oscar. Steven Spielberg was like, "This is the guy." And, you know, he made some great movies, and— Then, like any director, you know, you get cold in the business.

You go to jail for a minute. You go to director jail.

Thank you for clarifying that. Like, he went to jail? That's— he went to jail.

Jail is a little different. We had any overlap when I was in there for the chips? Chips jail.

You know, he stayed a great writer, and he's come back kind of as a director. And I worked with him on The Outpost, which is a good film. It was a big bummer because that film came out in 2020. Yeah, in March 2020. Oh my God. Yeah. Oops. Oops. Yeah. And I remember actually I was in Australia and I flew home because our movie got into South by Southwest and was premiering opening night. Yeah, baby. And it was a good movie. It was a good movie.

Uh, true story, two Medal of Honor winners. Is that in Afghanistan?

Yep, Afghanistan. And we got so screwed. I remember getting all the ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding as you get off the plane, and it was like, the festival's canceled. And I was like, what do you mean the festival's canceled? That's insane. Why? They're like, what do you mean? Have you been living under a rock? And I'm like, what do you mean? Yeah. And they're like, yeah, there's this thing called COVID.

They shut it down. They shut it down. And it became a sleeper hit on VOD. It did.

I really liked working with Rod. And actually, it was a funny story because I had done a few war movies When he offered this movie Lucky Strike to me, he started with, "It's a World War II—" I said, "Uh-uh, uh, let me stop you right there. I've done my tours." Yeah, yeah. Okay? I've done the Pacific. I did a tank movie in Europe. I've done Afghanistan now. I said, "I'm done. I'm done for a while. I gotta take a break. I'm not gonna do any more war movies for a minute." And then he said, "I think you should read it." And I said, "No, no, I'm good. Thank you." I said, "I wish you the best. Vaya con Dios. Please find the next guy who can do this. He'll do it better than I will." I will. And then about 3 weeks go by, and my agent calls me and says, "Hey, man, I think you should really read this Lucky Strike. It's really good." I said, "Really? I gotta read this? Okay." I said, "I'm gonna read it, and then I'm gonna like it, and then I'm gonna do it." Yeah, exactly. And I read it, and it's great.

Then you shipped off to— where'd you guys shoot that? We shot that in Bulgaria.

Bulgaria. Bulgaria.

Appropriate, 'cause it's about the Battle of the Bulge, and we almost have Bulgaria in there. You like that?

I did. I like that. Yeah, thank you.

I made all that work. With B and G. Yeah, so it's set in World War II, December 1944. The war's coming to a close-ish. Coming to a close-ish.

I mean, everyone was, I think, kind of like, this was the last push. We got the Nazis on the ropes. We need to make one last push. It was going into winter, which typically— I don't think even Ukraine and Russia are fighting, and those guys don't fight during winter.

Yeah, they don't even know it's winter.

They don't even fight during winter. It was last push. We Gotta keep going forward. It was just pre-Battle of the Bulge. It's a story about a whole group of guys that got wiped out, and there was one sole survivor that got trapped behind enemy lines for 3 or 4 days. And I don't want to give away too much.

It's a true story, right? It is.

Our producer, Marc Friedman, who's a lovely French guy who was living in France— he's an older gentleman, but he was living there post-World War II. And he interviewed a bunch of guys. He was a writer, and he took down this account, this incredible account of a soldier's experience behind enemy lines on the French-Belgium border.

I don't want to say too much. Well, I think what's relevant is, yeah, your unit gets ambushed and killed, and you have a radio. You have— this is a Motorola. It's brand new, right? It's true.

It was brand new technology for the time.

And you call in and they go, great, we're also under heavy fire. You're extraction point, or where you should meet up with us, is 30 kilometers away, which is 18 miles, and it's in the mountains and snow. Yeah, fucking World War II, dude. Like, even your clothes suck. Yeah, I watched it last night and I'm like, not good enough clothes to be fighting in the winter. No, you know, like, we have Gore-Tex now, we have all these waterproof— you're just in like fucking cotton. Cotton, just everything's wet.

Oh yeah, cold and wet.

You got half gloves on, but those are useless. Was it freezing where you were actually shooting? It was.

I had made a promise, by the way, to go back to why I told Rod, no, I'm not doing this movie. I made a promise I was not doing another movie in Bulgaria, especially fucking winter. Yeah. Oh God, you broke all your promises.

Yeah, I don't even want I'm gonna do a summer movie.

Oh yeah, probably good. Yeah, it was going straight to deployment daily, to the mountains, shooting, and it just was endure the suck, as they say.

Yeah, you're crawling up mountains on your hands and knees, you're flying off shit, you're getting more and more injured throughout the whole thing. More crawling, more cold.

I did find silver lining, and you always do. Anytime you're telling stories where people died and sacrificed themselves for our country, it comes with like a heavier wait. And I also find that they might not be making World War II movies in 20 years from now. We actually don't even have half the equipment anymore to make them with. Everything is either broken, you can't find it. It's harder and harder to make these movies. So, you know, I'm like, okay, this might be the last time I ever do a World War II movie. Let's pay it some respect.

Let's honor that. Yeah, let's honor that. I was thinking that a lot during it. I'm like, okay, 1944, 18 years away from it being 100 years. And for me, World War II was very alive because both my grandpa— my grandpa on my mom's side was in the Battle of the Bulge. He ran transmission wire. My other grandpa was in the Pacific. So it was like, World War II is a thing, dude. My grandparents were in it. They told me stories. I saw pictures. But certainly, yeah, no one now— now it's going to be a war like we think of the Revolutionary War. Like, we never met anyone from then. What is that even real? It's just in history books. So yeah, I think you're right. I was having that thought, like, I wonder how many more World War II movies there'll be before You were like, I don't know, that war was a quadrillion years ago.

Tough times and hard, hard people. I feel like we've gotten away from that because we have such good times in this country because of what they did.

Well, I loved it. I watched it and I like a war movie, man. I spend the entire time going like, could I do what I do it? You're just evaluating the whole time, like, yeah, what? I keep going. It's hard. It's kind of unimaginable. Yeah, you've got a pretty sweet Sprinter van? I don't. You don't have that?

No, I had an Airstream.

Oh, you had an Airstream?

Okay. In the same trailer park that Matthew McConaughey— in Malibu? No. Oh, in Texas.

Oh, in Texas.

In Austin, Texas, on Barton Springs.

Oh God, not directly across from Black, but close.

Close to Terry Black's. Yes. Yeah.

Okay, I know it well, and I've eyed it like a dozen times to see if— I'm trying to figure out if I could pull my tour bus in there, if it's big enough for that. Were there any 45-footers in there? Mine was 33 feet.

I, I know there was bigger tour buses in there. Okay, the hard part is getting a spot. And now they do have nightly spots they do reserve that you can get in there.

That's what I was looking at doing. Yeah.

Um, what is it, Monica? Obsessed with Barton Springs and Matthew McConaughey and, and RV life.

All the things you just said was like, yeah, I live at Barton Springs when I'm there. Do you love it?

I do love it. It's a busy for me. Okay. Where I would just go up to a buddy's house on the lake. They call it the river. Yeah, Lake Austin. Lake Austin. It's actually the Colorado River.

That's right.

So I would just go do that in the same water. Yeah.

Where I lost— well, yeah, it's a spring, it's always 69 degrees. It's true. There's a lot more to look at there.

There is. It is actually— it is beautiful. I, I would try to go earlier or late just because it's so packed sometimes.

Burnie Man. Yep. I saw some photos of Burning Man. Done that a few times. Yeah, how's that? I have great interest in going. Did you do it the, like, fancy way? That's what I would want to do. I've done it both.

The first time I did it was the very fancy private plane to another private plane, landing on the desert with a car right to your thing. Very cool.

How do I get that experience?

Can you hook me up with whoever you called? You're in.

Is that Taylor Swift? Does she have to call Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know if Taylor Swift's been.

I'm gonna guess no.

And then you've done the tent version?

Not the tent. Okay, but we did the drive-in, like, hey, we're gonna do the whole thing a whole week, which might have been a little ambitious, might have been a little much Burning Man.

Yeah, what's the right dosage of Burning Man, like 3 days?

I think 3 days, but I think it's 2 nights, you leave end of third day.

Perfect. Okay, good tip, good tip. The real burners would like shoot me for saying that. Yo, I know there's a lot of shoot away. And then jiu-jitsu. How long you been doing jiu-jitsu, man?

Since I was in my early 20s, 22, 23. Are you a black belt? I haven't got my black belt yet.

You haven't gotten your black belt? Okay, okay.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, they're kind of asking. I've sort of dodged and weaved. It's funny, it's like the longer you do it, you realize the more you don't know. Uh-huh. And it's just like anything, you're like, you still feel like a beginner no matter what level you're at, because there's very different levels of black belts. And you're like, oh man, that's just like a permission to still learn. And the guy I trained under for the last 20 years, Nelson Monteiro, he's a coral belt, and he's coral, 60 years old, and he's ripped, and he will fuck you up. And his name and his legacy, he wants only the best. Yeah, yeah. All these guys, any of the Machado brothers, any of these guys, it's the same thing. It's like, they're not gonna give you something you haven't earned.

Yeah, if you're representing the Gracie family, you better be fucking good. Yeah. Is this how you broke your ankle before Outpost?

No, no, I didn't.

That drinking accident? I think that might have been a drinking accident.

Those are the best kind.

I don't know what he's talking about.

Oh no, was it like a bird scooter?

Oh, is that what the—

I'm gonna let you get hammered and drive scooters around and then they wake up when they need an MCL. It happened to our friend.

Yeah, she was drunk on a bird scooter and yeah, yeah.

So he's like, oh, I've never been on a scooter, let's go for the bird, let's go 30 miles an hour for the first time, hammer It's a very common decision. Smart decision. Yeah. How'd you break your ankle?

How did I break my ankle?

This is the most secretive you've been this whole interview.

This is our scoop, how he broke his ankle. It was a long time ago.

Here's the thing about divulging too much about that. His dad broke his ankle. There we go.

There it is. There it is. There it is.

Sorry, sorry, sorry. That little incident shut down the movie for a while, but we got it back on track and we made the movie. That's what matters most.

Yeah, what matters is by the end of the movie you were able to run on it for a few scenes.

For a few scenes. It kind of screwed up the director's vision.

You fall off a staircase, uh, are there legal ramifications for telling us? There just might be.

You are saying a lot.

I'm not saying any of these things. How abstract. We've interviewed a lot of people that are gorgeous, and it varies. I'm being serious. Yeah, many of them are convinced they're not good-looking, sincerely. Yeah, famously he told it on here, but like Bradley Cooper, when he got nominated for Sexiest— or not nominated, when he won Sexiest Man Alive— won, he won, he won it, fought and won— he really thought that there was like a bit of foot, like, oh, there's a joke, they're fucking with me. Oh, well. And I'm like, Cooper, how many girls need to want to fuck you before you— I know, it's true. Recognize that that was like— warrants it. Yeah. What is your relationship with this being handsome?

When people say it, I, I think I get them like uncomfortable. Yeah, it's like, it's called me handsome. Like, well, thank you, that's nice. But I also don't take compliments well.

Yeah, I noticed that.

Yeah, my dad and I both don't take compliments well. We're like, okay, great, but we gotta go to work. Yeah, so thanks for all that, we're gonna go make a movie.

You're allergic to indulgence.

Yeah, we don't do that.

But there's a few different motivations for that. Like, one is I don't feel worthy of that compliment, I don't connect with that compliment, right? Sure. There is like, it doesn't do anything for you. I don't feel better because you said this.

Yeah, so it's kind of pointless, I guess, because because you can't control how you look, but you can control how you affect people, what you put out there in the universe, whether you do good, whether you create art. So that sort of stuff, I think if someone said, hey, I watched your movie, it really affected me, I lost a father, or I connected with this, I felt— you felt less alone. Yeah, whatever. Or made me laugh. Shit, who cares? Yeah, that's more interesting to me. And I said, oh my God, I'm so glad that affected you. I'm so that we could do something that made your life better. That's more interesting of a compliment to me than, hey, you're so—

you know, because you're like, I didn't earn it.

That's why I wanted to ask, because I think it's complicated, because everyone in the world would love to be beautiful, right?

But you know, you know, being famous, you're like a zoo animal. After a while, you're like, why is everybody looking at me? Oh, I forgot I'm a famous person. You're like, yeah, you know, you're like, yeah, quite just relax when you're in public because you're like, oh shit, what if I say something and they're listening? You know, there's a lot of complicated— I always tell people, they're like, you know, everyone wants to be famous. You don't want to be famous, you want to be rich. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who doesn't want to be rich, you know, and not have to worry about where you're gonna get your next sandwich from? Yeah. Yes. But being famous, that's not really—

that's the famous Bill Murray quote: if you're thinking about becoming rich and famous, I recommend the rich part. Yeah. You'd also already been disillusioned, let's be 100%. Yeah, you'd already watched in your home the impact of that.

Yeah, I saw the bullshit. My dad could never sit down for dinner and have a meal without 100 people coming up to him. Yeah, yeah, he's very gracious, but at the same time, it does wear on you at some point because you're like, yeah, yeah, I'm having a meal with my family. There's a price you pay. Like you said, you saw the bullshit on the other side of it.

Also, you know, you kind of look like— it hit me a few times in the movie last night, and then it hit me— it's hitting me here on the couch. 3. Oh, that would be fun. Will you count to 3? Uh, 3, 2, 1, then we say it. Okay.

Okay. 3, 2, 1. Anthony Starr. Oh wait, we didn't even get yours. Mine was Taron Egerton.

I think you look a lot like him.

Okay, both are very— who'd you say? I said Anthony Starr, Tony Starr from The Boys. Homelander. Yeah, have you ever gotten Homelander? Homelander? No. Do you watch The Boys?

I do watch The Boys. Oh, I watched it.

Yeah, fucking great, right? You don't get either of these. He's a beast. He's a beast. He's a talented motherfucker. Bad one. He's Homelander, the big Superman character. The big, big bad one. Well, Scott, this has been a blast. I love Lucky Strike. If you love war movies, you're gonna fucking love this. It comes out June 26th nationwide. And I guess, did you travel here for this, or are you on a little I'm doing a bunch of stuff.

Yeah, I've got to leave the East Coast to go do press and make my rounds.

Okay, well, it was a delight to meet you. Yeah, thanks for coming. This has been great. Good luck with the movie, and, uh, we'll see you again when you do Fast 11. I brought you guys some stuff.

You don't—

you don't strike me as the kind of guy that would bring something.

No, no, we've got this, uh, supplement company. Oh, I got you guys both things. Oh, cool.

Oh, what does this supplement do for me? Me, obviously. Well, it's an all-in-one. It's an all-in-one. North Performance. Why North Performance?

It's find your north.

Oh, okay, like your North Star. Yeah, yeah.

So I don't know about you guys, but I take a ton of supplements, and my very wealthy buddy got sick of doing it, and he was like, let's make it all-in-one.

Oh, you got creatine in this bit?

Oh, I love creatine.

So you can get everything, you know, you don't forget. You're like, okay, one thing in the and then you're like, hit your foundation. Nice.

I don't see tesamorlin in here, or ipamorlin, or SS31, or testosterone.

Where are those? Those you gotta inject, my friend.

Yeah, he knows. He's doing it. Yeah, yeah. Amazing. Thanks, brother. Yeah, no problem. Just a quick reminder that as part of our summer break, here's a run of one of our favorite fact checks.

Here we are, welcome home, back in the attic.

Is there a famous welcome home song? Welcome home, welcome home. That's our cure-all song. That's right, there's that Edward Sharp home song. How's that one going?

Oh, I love that song.

I don't, I don't think I don't sing either.

Well, homeless where I would— that's my, um, melody, my favorite song of all time, Talking Heads. Which, by the way, this fresh off the press, this is a couple hours old. Driving the kids to school this morning. Yeah. And there is a new version of my very favorite song, This Must Be the Place by the Talking Heads. It's by Sure Sure. Can I play you 2 seconds of it? Yes, please. It's an exciting version of it. Oh, I like that version. Right? Yes. I mean, to me, you're really taking— you're like, you're rewriting the Bible for me on this one. You're remaking Godfather. This is a dangerous endeavor, and they passed my test. It's very playful. Incredibly playful. You should even hear how it takes off. I don't want to bore everyone with the entire song, but boy, does it take off. The playfulness. Exciting.

I just ordered Calvin a banner that says, "This must be the place" yesterday for his bedroom.

It's like a big camping banner. Wobby! What's a camping banner? Like your camp, um, a flag. It's like a flag. Okay, cute, cute. Like you declare like Camp Rascal, like that's the division. That is Rob's camp. Of course it is. Camp Rascal.

Do you want to tell people about your pants?

Speaking of Rascal, I mean, I think you would be way better off describing my pants.

Okay, so you bought something out there and you've, you've made an alteration yourself.

I thought these pants were going to be like thin summer linen-y. Linen, okay. And when they came, they were so voluminous around the haunches and then up like mid-calf at the end. They were crazy looking. I put these on, I was like, what do we do with these? And I had spent a good deal of money on them. Sure. So they were sitting, right? Yeah. As they do with things I spend a lot of money on and I can't accept that I'm never going to wear them. Yeah. And then I think on Friday I was like, let's cut a foot or two off these and see where we're at. Yeah. And I did that. And then I wore them all day Friday and I just love how they feel. And they're either hideous looking on me or they work.

I can't tell. No, I actually don't think it's either or. Oh, okay. 'Cause they're not hideous. Okay. Of course they work. They—

Well, I mean, yes, they're covering my genitals.

Yeah, yeah, but they are intriguing. They're one-offs.

I mean, they're an original.

They are, because they hit you at about— let me stand up. Let me stand up.

Let's get a real— let's not guess. Okay, so it's about, what, 4 inches below the knee? 5 inches? Yeah, but it's definitely 2/3 of the way up the calf and shin, maybe 3/4 of the way up.

You know what you're doing? What? You're being Brad Pitt. It. You're being so out there with your fashion right now. And you even called it. You said, uh, I'm going to be wearing skirts.

I'm going to be wearing skirts here in a minute. And that— it— I'm— you're right, I'm inching towards— wow. I could in fact just have these seams opened up and maybe have them joined and have my first skirt. Aww, okay, cute. Okay, this might be the first iteration of this karma.

I think so. It's definitely that billowy material that works for a skirt.

They're comfortable as all get-out. I mean, I'm really comfortable in these. That's good. I slept in these last night, if you gotta know the full truth. Yeah. Sure. And then I woke up and I ran outta time. I did. Look, I, I was in this outfit when I dropped the kids off at school. Yeah. And when I got outta the car, I was like, I'm going for it. I, are my kids self-conscious about this outfit? That's very Brad Pitt-y.

Yeah. It's Pitt-y. Pity. Real pity.

And then I ran into my good friend Scott Schaeffer, who was an AD on Parenthood, a great AD, and now is head of physical production at HBO. Cool. A, I just love seeing him because we're good friends. And then I get to talk to him about all the inside scoop at HBO, which is fun. Yeah, behind the curtain. But I was wearing this outfit. Well, two things happened. God damn it, now we're here. Yeah. What's wrong? Okay, back up. I have the new goal of waking up at 5:50 in the morning so I can write for 2 hours before I drop the kids off at school. Well, I woke up at 4:50 and I was kind of fucked. I'm like, what am I gonna now stay up till 4:15? I knew we had a long day, so then I had to wrestle myself back to sleep, which means I didn't wake up till 7, which means I only got to do my journal, not my prose writing, and my meditation. Okay, so I much ran out the door. I hadn't even looked in the mirror, and I'm wearing the same outfit I slept in. Run into Scott, I'm like, I look like a bozo, I look like a circus clown.

That's just the outfit. Then I get back in the car. I don't normally have sleepies. Oh, oh my God. I looked in the rearview mirror as I got the car, I was like, fucking A, I had sleepies. All— poor Scott was talking to me in this crazy outfit and I had sleepies. He must have have been grossed out.

No, he wasn't.

He must have thought I was unhoused. No, he thought you—

he thought you were sleepy.

That's what sleepies mean. I got in that car and I was looking in there and I was like, oh fuck, I had a sleepy on my left. And then I was like, oh my God, I want the right eye too.

Was it really yellow?

No, it wasn't like a goober in the middle. It was literally below where like the folds of my chubby eyelid eyelids would be. It looks like a little crust, but white crust. It wasn't so gross as just, that's crust. No, it's— oh my God, people are gonna stop listening. You're gonna have to at some point.

No, it's fine. Between the shitty my pants— it's an audio podcast, they can't see your crust.

But at some point, are they like, you know what, this guy's disgusting? No. Okay, well, that's what happened. You're not disgusting. I was a little embarrassed.

Oh, I'm sorry that happened. It's okay. You weren't going to tell us that. You were keeping that.

I had no intention of telling anyone that. That would have been something that never came up.

Why? Because you thought you might cry?

It would just be my quiet, quiet shame. I don't know. But it's out there. It came up. Let's talk about the fact that you're home from your European vacation. And massage. And people are not going to— And massage. They're not going to be cool with us not asking an update because our last Fact Check ended with heavy speculation That's right. And heavy encouragement.

You have a new, you have a ring on your finger?

Yep. I am engaged.

Oh my goodness, a huge development.

I do have a new ring. Thank you for noticing, Rob. It's a beautiful ring. Chanel. Oh my God.

Shout out to Chanel.

Bought it myself. It was not by my massage therapist. Okay. But I will give an update on that.

Please, please, please, please. Can I suggest that you start on, say, Saturday when— because you've now told Molly, Amy, and Kristen that you're seeing him, and they've all had massages by him, right?

I mean, I get— sure, they arranged it. Yes, because they've had these massages, they believe it was a life-changing massage.

And so now they're starting to get really excited for you as the appointment closes in. I want to point out that so much hype started building that you went into it, I would imagine, with the mindset of like, isn't it, this is gonna be terrible compared to, I think that's important.

Yes, it was very hyped up, but it's been hyped up for years. And then yeah, I'm going in, I'm like, ugh, okay, well, really I think I was looking for it to disappoint. Okay, yeah. Like I think a little part of me wanted it to be disappointing. So then, well, I didn't tell the girls this. Okay. I said it on here, right? That he told me that it was early in his experience when he massaged them, but he has since ratcheted up his performance. Oh my God. And I didn't tell them that.

You don't want them to feel like they got a bunk version. Yeah, but they did.

Okay.

Because then we already know that he looked you up on Instagram from the previous.

Yes, yes, yes. He looked me up on Instagram and we know that because last episode you made a joke about the oil. Bring a lot of oil.

Oil or not a lot of oil.

I'm just wondering how much oil to bring. And then I said, well, he's looked at my Instagram, so I think he knows. Okay, my massage was Sunday. So Saturday he said, tomorrow's the day.

Oh yeah, foreplay.

Uh-huh. And I was like, oh yay, you know, I'm so excited. And so he sends me his address. It says it is at his home. Yeah, it's his home, but it's his studio.

Sure, I'm not taking anything away from his home. It's just, it's not a brick and mortar storefront. No. Yeah, it's a residence.

I arrived at a residence. Okay. Yes. And I was early. Oh, I text him, I'm early, no rush though, I'll just be standing outside the door. Standing. So then he opens the door, he says, voilà.

Oh my God, that's how he greeted you?

No, actually I don't remember. He said something. He had some bed head. Oh, interesting.

But it looked good on him. Yeah. Yeah. This guy's got a man—

I was I was like, he's hot. Okay. Yeah, he is hot. They were okay. They were right.

Yeah, he's objectively hot.

Yeah, but also like in a French way, like bed head. Like, then I come in, he picks out my shoes for me, like my little sandals.

Oh, okay, okay. Because you got to transfer from your, your street shoes. Yes. Okay.

He sits me on down on the couch. There's all these oils in front of me, um, and then he's just like wants to chat for a bit. Great. So then we're chatting. He's asking about my vacation, you know, general.

Okay, get to know you stuff.

Yeah. He asks about Kristen. Sure, updates. Yeah. He asked what I do. So we, whatever, we're chitchatting and I'm feeling so on edge a little bit. Okay. Then he makes me pick out my oils. Okay. I pick a body oil and then also a scent oil.

Are lavender?

What did you— I picked lavender for my body and then this like kind of woodsy one. Oh, smoky. Okay, the whiskey. Yeah, woods. Okay. He doesn't speak great English, which is kind of great.

Yeah.

Yeah. So then he leads me into this other room, the sauna.

Okay, that's in his home?

Yeah, it's part of his studio.

No, I know, I know, I know. I'm not being, um, demeaning to—

No, I know you're not. I'm just telling you how big is the sauna? Big. It's infrared. I help him learn the word infrared. Great. We go in there.

Now both people are getting something out of this experience, which is great.

He says, 20 minutes in the sauna, and then you'll shower. There's a shower. Oh my God. In front of the cameras. And I said, okay, do I wear this? So there's a robe hanging. Yeah. And I said, do I wear this robe? And he said, no. He really hated the idea of me wearing the robe.

Oh my God. Yes, yes, of course.

And so I said, oh, okay, yeah. And he said, nude. Like, he kept saying nude. He doesn't say naked. Yeah, that's, I guess, an American word. And I said, okay. And then he said, you can wear this. And there's this, like, little kind of paper underwear. Okay. Um, if you want to wear this, you can wear this. And he said, and then you'll put on the robe, right? You can wear this underwear if you want, but it's better if you're nude.

Yeah. Yes, yes, of course. And does he stay in the room? No. Okay. No. Okay, okay.

I think he sensed that maybe I was a little hmm about—

The nudity.

Yeah. So he said, you'll be covered with a towel the whole time. And I was like, okay, great. At this point I'm like, I'm just gonna have to surrender to this experience. Because I will say, when he's texting me tomorrow is the day, I thought, is there a world in which Kristen has told him to have sex sex with me. Oh, right. And I really did not like that. I need to make a charity case. Yeah, I have a lot of baggage about being a charity case. Yeah. And so, and also it was just like, no, like, I don't want—

I'm making the decisions.

Yes, yes, yes. So I had some fear about that. So I, I went in being like, I need to make it pretty clear I'm not interested in that. Yeah, right. So anyway, Anyway, he leaves the room. I get into the sauna and it's really nice. Yeah. And then I get in the shower and then I was confused about the shower because I'm like, do I wash my hair? I thought he was going to do some hair play and I don't want my hair to be wet during hair play. Of course. So then I do get my hair wet, but I don't wash it and I wash my body and then I put on the robe and I put some makeup on, my perfume. You're in the opposite headspace.

No, no, no, it's so obvious you weren't in that headspace, which is why I made that joke.

Things do take a turn. So then I, I go in, I go in. Oh, he asked me, he says, do you want the music with lyrics or without? Okay, great. And I was like, I don't know, you don't have a preference? Yeah, what do you think? It's my first time in your apartment. Reminding everyone that he has referred to this as an experience many times. He was like, this is an experience. Like sometimes people cry and feel free to have all the emotions you're gonna have. Okay. Okay. So then I pick with lyrics. Okay, good. Go in. He tells me to lay down and put the towel on. And I look and like in American massages, you get under a sheet.

That's right.

And it's like really covering your whole body. You slide under that sheet.

Yeah. Like some Brooklyn.

A beautiful Brooklyn. Yeah, yeah, this was not bad. It was a towel.

Yeah, that you had just dried off with, or a new towel?

Okay, but it's, you know, a towel doesn't cover that. It's not like it's flowing off the table. It's just, just covering my body. Yep. Comes in, turns on the music. It's already— it smells so good. That woodsy oil smells lovely. Yeah. And then he starts, and it, um, was—

is it instantaneously? Connected and hot and lovely.

Yeah, it is. He, but he pulls the towel down.

Does he go down all the way past your butt?

Yes.

Right out of the gate? Yes. So you're just, your whole back is totally exposed?

Yes. Oh my gosh. Okay. And I was like, okay, okay, here we go. Let's go. Buckle up. And he does like, he massages sort of to the, to the music. It was so, so sensual. I mean, extremely. Wow. And he massaged everything except your vagina. My pussy pachydermis.

Okay. But when he was on your butt cheeks, did he— how close is he getting to your anus?

My butthole? Yes. Um, I wasn't like, oh, his finger is touching my butthole, right? Okay, good. But oh, the whole Well, so the back's the back. The back's the back.

You can only get so crazy. Yeah.

Now— Now it's time to flip. Oh, okay. So he whispers to turn over. Oh God. And I do. And there's multiple seconds before the towel comes back down on you.

Oh, Rob. What's your heart rate at right now, Rob?

He's just staring.

Oh my God, does he make eye contact with you?

Well, my eyes are closed. You—

okay, you can just feel that he's staring. It's not like he— you flipped and he walked to another side of the room.

No, no, no, he lifted the towel and so you could roll over.

Yep, all the way on your back.

What I'm used to with the flip, they say on the side, they lift the towel, they're on the side and they're like keeping the towels still pretty— I mean, the sheets still very close to the— so you're kind of squirming together. This is not that.

The towel comes up, right? You flip over out in the open.

I flip over, and then I'm there for some time before the towel comes back on.

How long do you think? 5 full seconds? 1,000, 2, 1,000, 3, 1,000, 4, 1,000, 5. Wow. What's happening at your titillation meter just being bare nude in front of him, knowing he's just enjoying the show?

Well, at that time, since it was like halfway through, You're warmed up. Yeah.

Yeah, I was. You were in no hurry for him. I wasn't.

It was fascinating. That's very erotic. It was incredibly erotic.

Just someone deciding they'd like to stare at you nude might be more erotic and exciting than— yes, than even like touching in the middle of kissing.

This is such a weird thing to say, but I feel like we had sex. Sex, right?

I really did, because of the level of intimacy and exposing yourself and trust. It was so intimate. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

One thing he did, I was facing up, he put his hands under my back.

And lifts you up a little bit? Yeah. Yeah, so you're arching. Yeah. Oh my goodness. But your breasts are now being jutted out. Everything's out. Right, and as he pulls your back up, they're now shooting out, right? Like, am I understanding this right? Like he's kind of rolling your spine.

Yeah, I guess. It was like what you would do during sex. It's a sexual move. Yeah, yeah, he did not touch my vagina.

I will be—

okay, great, very clear about that.

Great. Now tell me about the breast portion. Yeah, he, he was rubbing your breasts? Yes, over the nipples and everything? Yes. Oh my God, does he do men's massages?

I don't know if he's ever done a man. I don't know how.

I need it. Did you feel like you might climax during any of this? Um, you were too afraid to go like, fuck it, let's go for it? Let's embrace it and actually try to climax. You weren't willing to go do that. No. Could you have climaxed? I guess that's the question.

My body was ready for it. Ready, yeah, yeah. Yes. That's all I can, that's all I feel comfortable saying. Sure. It's very hard to explain. It was like if something actually crossed the line, it would've ruined it.

Yep, yep, yep, I feel you. Got you. Yeah, you guys were on the perfect line between inappropriate and appropriate. I mean, you're on the other side of appropriate, but not like whatever your bottom line was.

Exactly.

Also, if anyone has the opportunity, I would say, oh yeah, take it. Don't miss it. I'm gonna send my mom to him. Your mom would love it. I know. I wonder if he would give her the same treatment he gave you. I mean, probably not. I mean, I'd love to believe he's just like a spreader of joy and eroticism. And that he would give my mother that same. Yeah, but he wanted— well, he would— well, no, he certainly wanted to date you.

Well, he said after, he said, you have a perfect body.

Wow.

And I was glad he said it after. Yes, yes. And not during, right? It was once I had my robe back on and we were out of the room.

Yes. And then, am I right that he asked what you were doing?

Yeah, but I think—

You think that was just innocuous? Yeah. What do you think? I was doing later that night, directly after he said you have a perfect body.

No, it was a little—

it was a little bit after. Yeah, Rob, that was a request for a date. Yeah, it sounds like it.

Yeah, yeah. Once he said I had a perfect body, I was incredibly flattered. Yeah, like, I was— you were on— you were floating. I was already a mess.

Yeah.

And so then he said that, and I was like, I gotta go, I gotta go. Like, I got to go now, right? Right. Yeah.

Wow, this is a— this is one of the best stories I've ever heard on this show.

It was a big big day. It was funny because of your joke about massaging the boobs was so clearly a joke.

And then so when that was a real thing happening, I was like, I can't believe it's actually happening right now, that he did need to bring a certain amount of volume of oil. Exactly. Okay, so here's what I thought might happen. So you were very clear on all your things, and then you left, and it was perfect. It was perfect. My prediction— and it wasn't like a 70%, I wouldn't have bet, like if I was doing odds in Vegas— I had a 30% thought that you're gonna have like a full half day to marinate on the, the post kind of euphoria of it all. And then you go to dinner, and you'd be drinking a glass of wine. And then he'd reach out and he'd say like, how are you feeling after your experience. And then I, I thought there's a 30% chance that the thing could still take a turn that evening, right? Did he reach out that evening?

He reached out, but it wasn't that evening. It was later, but it wasn't like late.

Okay. And it wasn't while you were having a glass of wine?

No, no. Perfect. I didn't want that. I know, I know you didn't.

I, I believe you 1,000%.

I just think it's hard for you to understand that as a— yes. Yeah.

I won't even say as a guy, as me. Yeah, yeah. So anyways, you came home. What an experience. So the fact that after all the hype, the buildup, it was everything they said and then beyond that.

And I will say, I asked him, how long have you been doing this? And he said, this, 3 years. Massage, 17 years. Wow. So when he said he is doing something different, he is doing something different. Yes. Yes. I did think though, like, if I had a boyfriend and I went to France and I had this experience, yeah, yeah, it would have, I think, felt like I just cheated a little. It really does. Like, it's like, oh, I'm, I'm awake, right? I'm online.

Yeah.

Wow, what a guy. It was something. It was something. I was not expecting to be able to report all of that back. I thought it would just be like, yeah, it was like a little hyped up, but it was great. I expected it to be like an incredible massage, but this It wasn't that, right?

It was an experience, by God. It did cross my— I gotta tell you, because I'm so protective of you. Yeah. The only thing I thought was like, okay, so 30% chance some wine happens. You're not on the pill anymore.

Oh, I know.

That's what crossed my mind, is are you gonna come home right now with this guy's kid?

Luckily, abortion is legal in California.

That's true, that's true.

But see, that's why abortion should be legal because like they need to go to— sorry, your massage therapist.

No, at that point it's a masseuse. No. Yeah, because what they don't like is that masseuses imply some kind of sexual flavors. So if he, if he did climb on top of you, then we could rightfully probably call him a masseuse.

And I, I was, I was like, culturally this is so interesting. Like, what if it just feels so erotic? Yeah, what if it's standard because it's French?

I know. No? Incredible story.

Incredible story. Okay, now, ding, ding, ding. We mentioned Six Flags in this episode. Six Flags New Jersey, because that's where she's from. Six Flags Great Adventure. And that is a ding, ding, ding, because we just brought that up on another Fact Check. About the roller coasters. Yes. Yes. Biggest roller coaster is there. Okay, pros and cons to cost. Coffee. Oh, it has a lot of nutrients. The coffee beans do. Vitamin B2, vitamin B5, B1, B3, folate, uh, potassium, magnesium, phosphorus— lots of stuff. It can add up to a significant portion of your daily nutritional intake. But coffee really shines in its high content of antioxidants. In fact, the typical Western diet provides more antioxidants from coffee than from fruits and vegetables combined. Whoa. Yeah. That's the only place I'm getting my antioxidants.

I know.

I haven't had a vegetable in a while. I know. I did think like, you're not even seeing it in its peak form. Yeah.

You've seen it after a food orgy over the last 10 days.

Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Caffeine, a stimulant that can enhance brain function and boost metabolism, may protect your brain from Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. Mm-hmm. Ooh, it says coffee drinkers have a much lower risk of type 2 diabetes. Low risk of liver diseases, low risk of depression and suicide. And this fact check was brought to you on the American Council of Coffee. Okay, but then it says coffee can cause anxiety and disrupt sleep. Yeah, we can live with that. Addictive. Oh, sure. And missing a few cups can lead to withdrawal. Oh yeah, who cares?

Just keep having the cups. It's not like you can't get your hands on a cup of coffee.

Exactly. Yeah. I guess if you add a lot of sugar, that's bad.

Yes, of course. But this isn't an episode on sugar. This is about coffee.

That's right. Yeah. Anyway, it sounds like a lot of pros. Yeah, which is good.

I'm glad I'm drinking so much of it.

Okay, cold water versus room temp water.

I'm always told the Chinese believe it's not good to drink cold water.

I don't think it's about Chinese.

That's what I'm always told.

Oh my God, it is. Okay, all water is good. Dr. Jill Blakeway, a licensed and board-certified doctor of acupuncture and Chinese medicine and founder founder and clinical herbalist at Yanova, says cold water is refreshing and cooling. It's great on a hot day and a good choice after exercise. Okay, so drinking warm water may be better in some instances, whereas drinking cold water might also be more beneficial. It says room temp water can make you less thirsty. Cold water is beneficial after a workout. Room temp aids in digestion. In Chinese medicine— wait, you're right— in Chinese medicine, we advocate drinking warm water because of its effects on the digestive system. Drinking cold water can congeal the fats in food, and because of that, can make the digestive system sluggish.

Well, look, this I think we can say without getting into too much hot water. Ding, ding, ding. Different populations of people around the world struggle with different issues. Yes. Kind of pandemically. Yeah.

Warm water improves circulation and can relax muscles, which combat constipation and abdominal cramps. Jumping. Cold water can stuff up your sinuses. Room temp water boosts metabolism because it increases your overall body temperature. Cool. Okay. That's enough. Yeah. Does scoliosis skip generations? Is scoliosis genetically passed from parents to their children? Strong evidence suggests that scoliosis runs in families, but no direct evidence has been found. Also, nearly a third of patients with adolescent idiopathic scoliosis scoliosis have a family history of the condition. Only a third, so that's not huge. And that's from the Scoliosis Institute. Okay, she went to a good college and she says it's one of the Seven Sisters, and I didn't know what that was and I felt like a bad unifile. I don't either. Okay, the Seven Sisters refers to seven highly selective liberal arts colleges in the northeastern US that are historically women's colleges. Okay, Barnard, Barnard, Bryn Mawr, Mount Holyoke, Smith, Wellesley, Vassar. Vassar College is currently a co-educational college, and Radcliffe College was absorbed by 1999 by Harvard College. Oh wow, okay. I only knew two of those.

I knew Vassar and Barnard.

Barnard.

You knew Wellesley, right? Oh yes, I think that might have been in Catcher in the Rye.

And Smith, I knew. I knew, but I didn't know— well, Bryn Mawr I think is where she went. Okay, now we know it. Now we know. I didn't know Mount Holyoke. Nope, still don't. Yeah, these colleges were created to provide women with the educational equivalent to the traditional male Ivy League colleges. It's pretty cool. I like that. Okay, the New York Times article about the indicators that lead to climbing the economic ladder, it's called quote, Friend Okay, and it was in August of this year. A large new study offers clues about how lower-income children can rise up the economic ladder. Growing up in a community connected across class lines improves kids' outcomes and gives them a better shot at rising out of poverty.

That's what's cool about our kids' school.

It is very cool.

It's half haves and half have-nots.

Yeah, so if you guys want to read this article It's interesting. Okay, you said when traders have wins, mm-hmm, they get a bump in testosterone, right? So I could not find evidence of that. What there is a ton of evidence of is when city traders have high morning testosterone levels, they make more than average profits for the rest of that day. Oh wow. So the testosterone affects the outcome in some ways, weirdly. But I couldn't find the reverse.

Okay. Do you know women have more testosterone than they have estrogen?

Yes, but the percentage is lower than males.

Yes. But what's interesting is we, we think of estrogen as being the female hormone, right? Testosterone being the male hormone. And obviously there's a big difference, but I don't think anyone realizes women have more testosterone than they have estrogen.

Yeah, we learned that in our fertility podcast.

Oh, you did?

I learned it on Huberman talking. Yeah, it was Oh, okay.

And depends on the person, the levels. I have a lot, I think. Self-diagnosed, like my SAD.

Uh, testosterone is the big opponent of fertility in men. So for people who are thinking about doing testosterone replacement therapy, you absolutely cannot do it if you want to have kids. It destroys your fertility.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, the rate of opiate addiction in vets while in Vietnam is 30%, and they come home and 4% remain addicted. That's the numbers?

That's what you said. Oh, okay. I've lost complete faith in those guesses.

There's this huge publication I found, and there's a table in here. You're definitely right. Let's just say you're definitely right that the number goes drastically down.

There's a staggering drop-off when they return.

But I'll read some of this because I have it broken down to any narcotic use, any heroin use, narcotics more than weekly for a month or more, addicted to narcotics at any period, urine positive for narcotics. Okay, so let's just use any narcotic use. 10% since return. Okay. And 43% in Vietnam. Okay. And 11% before Vietnam.

That's really weird.

It came down, it came down after. Wow.

Yeah, but yeah, 43% narcotic use. Yeah, that's, uh, a lot. Yeah, 2 out of every 5.

Okay, I have a surprise. It's not really a surprise because you told me to look it up, but although it is a surprise because I've forgotten what I called it.

You have the best speakers I've ever heard on it, man. Really? It's so loud. The traffic, I can't The boss, the baby, the dog. That does it, Calgon, take me away.

Look at that bathtub. Calgon softens the water to leave skin—

she's in a 6,000-gallon circular bathtub in Roman pillars.

I love it. Pamper yourself with a Calgon bath. Lose lose yourself in luxury.

They were one sentence away from saying have an orgasm. It's kind of ding ding ding. Very ding ding ding. They're promising that that Calgon can give you the experience you got in that man's apartment.

Good luck, Calgon. Oh no, you lost something.

You lost the whole document. No, what happened? Well, I would imagine it'd die after the volume of the— all my tabs Went away.

Oh, I don't think I have very many left.

But did your Chrome crash? Sometimes if you reopen it, it says reopen tabs.

I know, but it didn't. You guys both use Chrome? Yeah, you should use Chrome. It's good. Fuck. Sign that you're a good employee. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Was it Chrome though?

Yeah, because Safari comes default on Apple.

Yeah, and Chrome you've got to add. And Windows Explorer is the default, um, browser. I don't know what Windows—

Internet Explorer I think is discontinued now. I think Firefox maybe.

Oh, Firefox.

Yeah, that was the most best employee, wasn't it? Firefox. You're really out on a limb.

Chrome. Okay, all right. I just like because it integrates with Google everything. Right.

Fuck. Okay, I'll start using it. Just use it. It's always begging me when I open Gmail to switch over.

Do you think maybe you're You're not using it because you're like, I don't want to be an employee anymore.

No, no, I don't. It's probably an inflated confidence in Apple. Like, well, Safari's got to be the best. I like all the other Apple suite of products. Yeah, Safari's good.

Safari's good. You know what's cool about Chrome? Tell me. I could pull up my history.

Oh, well, you can do that on Safari. Yes, of course. Right there, you have Chrome. You can. You can do that on AOL. That's OG shit right there.

Definitely. It's chrome.

I just want to earmark out loud, but on the next fact check, because this one's been so wonderfully good and robust. Yeah, but just want to earmark that I have a grievance to air. Oh my God, outrage hit at me. So just speaking of that, while you look at your thing, there's two things that sound racist that aren't in Formula One. Oh, why? Because they say regularly, like, the Spanish driver— they— because it's an international sport and all these guys are from different countries. Countries. Yeah. So they'll say like, Carlos Sainz, like, uh, the Spanish driver is, you know, running— they'll refer to their nationality a lot.

Oh, I see.

But when they say the Mexican driver, because Perez is from Mexico, it just feels racist. That's right. And the other one is, uh, Zhou Guanyu. Um, he's from China. And when they say the Chinese driver, I don't— especially if he's like, he's spun out or something, and they'll say like, oh, the Chinese driver went I don't want to— it sounds deeply racist, but it's objectively not because they're saying everyone's nationality. But for some reason, when they say the Chinese driver or the Mexican driver—

no, there's a reason. It's because in America we do that to those nationalities.

Well, you just rarely hear someone saying this Mexican— it's never positive after someone—

that's what I'm saying. Yeah, which is— that's very American though.

Always I'm like, oh Chinese driver. Why'd they just say that? It's good that you had that reaction.

I like that. Okay, hold on.

The history is not going as well as I wanted it to. As good as you remembered it to be on Chrome? Maybe thinking of Safari.

No. Okay, I found it. Okay, so the question is, is America's GDP is the Wall Street— so sorry, I'm pretty jet-lagged. Of course. Do you—

does it look like I'm getting frustrated?

No, I'm frustrated with myself because I can't talk right now.

What do you think about this reframing? I kind of like it. I've heard that it's a good idea, and I know you're aware of it. Instead of saying, I'm sorry, I blank, say, um, thanks for your patience.

Oh, that's nice. Thanks for your patience. Patience.

Yeah, no problem. Um, you don't owe me an apology. I don't know why that's a thing. I just know, um, intuitively I like it. Like, instead of coming in and going like, oh my God, I'm so sorry, I'm like, it's, oh my God, thank you for your patience. Right. Uh, you feel like it's taking less responsibility?

A little. Huh. Yeah, a little, because like, I am sorry if I'm making mistakes.

Well, you don't need to be because I'm not I think it's for more mundane things that you're not supposed to over-apologize because I've heard that too. Like, this is a thing I would love to help Lincoln get over. She says I'm sorry so much and drives me crazy because I'm like, you don't need to be sorry.

She does say it as—

she almost says it's a default. Yeah. Like when we're playing soccer and she doesn't kick it perfectly to me, I'm sorry. I'm like, baby, you don't need to be like—

this is perfect. Do you know what she's doing? She's doing what I just did. She's saying I'm sorry to herself.

And that's what I've— in so many words, I said to her, it's okay for you to have a goal for yourself that you might even want to say, like, I know I can do better to yourself, but you don't owe me anything. Yeah. I don't have an expectation of you being perfect at passing a soccer ball 300 times. Right. So you don't owe me an apology because there's been no unsaid contract that that's what I expect from you.

Yeah, it, it's totally dependent on the scenario. I, I think it's courteous to say I'm sorry if you've impacted somebody. Yeah. Okay, the percentage of America's GDP that's Wall Street.

Oh, finance.

In 1970, the finance insurance industries accounted for 4.2% of US GDP, up from 2.8% in 1950. By 2012, they represented 6.6%. The story The story with profits is similar. In 1970, the profits of the finance and insurance industries were equal to 24% of the profits of all other sectors combined. In 2013, that number had grown to 37%, despite the aftereffects of the financial crisis.

Wow. Yeah. So 30%, 37.

Wow. In 2013. Yeah. So it could be more.

That's why people should be critical of the finance industry. Industry, but the notion that we should get rid of it or totally—

this came up. Yeah, yeah.

Is like, it's naive. You can't really talk about getting rid of any industry that's 30% of our GDP without— I don't think— humongous, colossal collapse of many systems and people's life.

Yes, I'm not interested in getting rid of it at all, but I don't subscribe to the thought that it has to be toxic to work.

Right, right, right. Nor do I think we should be held hostage by any industry. That's not what I'm saying. I, I'm talking to the people that are like, dismantle Wall Street, totally no private banking. Like, this is a— I agree, it's a cornerstone of our overall economy. Yeah. And really, it's all England is now. They stopped manufacturing. They have some luxury goods. Burberry That's a luxury. Yeah, Burberry trench.

Okay, that's all for today. Okay, now you have it. We have an Easter egg for next Fact Check, which is always exciting.

Love you. Thank you for that great story.

You're welcome.