Transcript of Jackie Tohn Returns New

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard. I'm joined by Lily Padman.

Hi.

Hi.

We have a friend in today.

Our friend is here.

She's returning.

Yes.

Yeah. Returning guest Jackie Tone. Jackie Tone is an actor and a musician. Nobody Wants This, Glow, The Boys, Gen V. We didn't even talk about The Boys with her. I love seeing her on The Boys because I'm obsessed with The Boys. I forget she's on it. Yeah. So she pops up and it's a pop-out and I love it.

Fun. Pop-outs are fun.

Yeah, and she's here today and, um, she's telling a very, very personal story that she's gone through, uh, simultaneously to all this wonderful stuff.

Yeah.

Uh, and it's a harrowing tale. Please enjoy Jackie Tone.

Hey.

Hi, ladies.

Don't you dare.

Hi, sir. Is that a new shirt?

It's an old shirt.

Oh my God, it's a new old shirt.

It's a new old shirt.

It's explicitly not a new shirt.

No.

But it's new to me.

That's right.

Do you have a new shirt on? I do have a new shirt on. You always have a new shirt on. And you guys have very similar shirts on.

I know, we did very similar costumes today. I almost didn't have a bra under mine, and then I thought, we're talking about the new yitters, maybe I should have a bra on.

Well, or maybe you shouldn't, you know, because we already— Yeah, I kind of feel like you shouldn't.

Gone raw dog on me.

Well, there's still time. In the middle, feel free.

Never know. Although it is like yours, it's the almost exact same material. It is see-through. You will see.

Oh great.

It's not just like if I wore that shirt, you'd see the nips.

Well, we want these numbers.

We want to see that, you know. We want to see the bra. We want to see your bra.

I have to apologize, guys. I made a huge mistake.

Not by coming here, but by—

yeah. What's funny is there was a half moment where You were saying, "We have the same," and you were about to say "material." To Monica.

Yeah.

But I was like, "Hold on, what is she about to say? We have the same breasts now?" No. Like, I was wondering if that's where it was going.

No.

Well, there is a bit of a size difference.

Are we D?

We D?

We double D?

We double.

Oh, yeah.

So double D. Are we doubling our Ds?

Are we doubling our Ds?

Yeah.

I used to be a 32D, believe it or not. In theater.

Okay, yes.

But now they're a B.

Wait, hold on.

They're smaller. Okay.

You had 32D. We've known each other for—

but here's what's crazy.

Jackie had big—

yeah, 18 years.

I will say that makes me want to cry and feel excited at the same time.

So what, 18 years?

Yeah. I don't know what you're talking about. That's not a real number. I'm 17, so having known someone 18, the math sort of doesn't— but my titties were from here.

Okay. From the side of your rib cage. For the listener, actually.

Oh, we're recording.

Oh yeah.

Oh, I live. So my titty used to go from under my arm into here. And so in order for underwire not to dig into me, it had to be a D-size underwire. So it was a big old— And then when I was getting my reconstruction, the doctor was like, if we went with your same width, your tits, your implants would be enormous.

Really?

Because my breast tissue literally was under my arm to here. And so I had these like nice wide and they were perky forever.

Yeah.

Oh, do you think the width has to do with the perkiness?

I do, because there's so much— It's not like a little hanging.

Lateral support.

Yes, you have the lateral support. You have the whole rib cage sort of getting behind you.

This is science.

Counter-theory.

Please.

Just, you look at people. The look on Monica's face is like, okay. I want to hear the counter to the science Jack, you just showed us. First of all, you guys are probably right. So I'm not saying that this would invalidate that theory. It's just, you see humans, we come in a lot of variety and there's just taut skin and loose skin. I've been fortunate enough to have been with enough nude ladies. I've seen a lot of different body types.

Mm-hmm. Seen so many nudes.

And I, I wonder if it's just like an elasticity in your skin that you have a lot of or you don't.

I don't know the answer and I don't think that that's invalidating what we're saying at all.

Maybe some combination of—

Yeah, combo.

Well, I will also say, of course I already knew, I was like, I'm gonna come on this podcast and say too much. Mm-hmm. Cuz these are my people.

Yeah.

But the doctor said to me, she was like, well, the good news is you're in your forties, you'll get a little lift, they'll be perky for the rest of your life. Yeah. And then I took my shirt off and she was like, okay, So not as much for you.

We're not going to get as much vertical lift.

That was a huge compliment.

Yeah.

She was like, she thought they were going to droop to the floor. And I was like, no, the girls have stayed put. God bless them.

I know.

There's a lot of things genetically I was not gifted with.

And a lot you were.

Yeah, a lot.

Yes. You're very attractive. You're very witty. You're very fast. You have a good voice. In fact, as we make this list, it's almost hard to feel bad for whatever.

Wow.

That's true.

It feels like you kind of tricked us into giving you a lot of compliments.

Yeah, okay, I did. And we're staring into each other's eyes and I'll have it no other way. I'm gonna put my lip on.

Okay, put your lip on.

Since you love physics—

Uh-huh, I do.

So much.

Yeah, yeah, I'm a physics nerd.

It looks really nice. I think Jackie's theory really makes sense. I believe it, 'cause mine are also wide. I believe it.

I remember doing a play years ago And, you know, like, you don't know what your friends— I mean, you have an idea what your friend's tits look like, but you really don't know.

Yes.

And then I did a play and all the girls backstage were like, I can't believe those are your tits.

Oh, people were really stalking.

And I was like, hey, that's really nice. So I learned in my 20s, like, oh, and then I saw everyone else's and they were gorgeous to me, but definitely shaped differently than my personal yitters.

Isn't it so stressful, our body parts? Like, at first you're a girl and you're like, I must, I must, I must increase my bust. You want knockers. But now, how buoyant are the knockers? What are the areola sizes? How long are the nipples?

Like, there's other— there's banana shapes.

How misshapen are they? They're all going to be a little asymmetrical. Yeah, those are great. We call them ski slopes or bananas. It's great. It's where the breast kind of just naturally comes up at the end.

Yep.

That's fun. That's exciting.

It's super really exciting.

Yeah, a lot of guys I know covet ski slopes. I don't even know why ski slopes works, because if you think about a ski slope, just down— it should be ski jump.

Sure.

Yeah, downhill long jump.

Of course. I think the catchy way to call it is a downhill long jump.

That's right.

I think it's the respectful verbiage for it.

But the amount of stress we all have over our body parts, because it's like you have a penis. Of course, as a boy, you want the biggest one among your friends. Immediately you understand that's the goal. No one sits you down and tells you that. Those penises come out and everyone's like most drawn, like backstage at your play. All eyes go to the biggest penis.

Like, oh, guys are pumped, right?

Yeah. Wow, look at this, you know? And then you have the shape of your erection. That's its own—

oh my God, its own thing.

It's its own journey.

Also balls. Balls. Oh my God, I remember when I was a teenager, I had a friend who had like enormous balls.

Oh yeah, chimp.

And his name was Brandon, and he showed everybody all the time. We look back, and obviously I think this would all be very not okay Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was like, it's like someone would be like, yo, you got to show everybody your balls. And he would just open up his zipper and take them out of his zipper and put them in his hand.

He was good. He was good.

Fucking huge.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Really big balls. Okay, now let me ask you, hanging balls.

Yeah. Does that do anything to you? It doesn't, right? Yeah. Like, it doesn't. You don't think there's some primitive level? No. Let's just start with—

because there's so much semen in there. Great.

Yeah.

If you're in a competitive breeding situation like chimps are, they don't know who's who's— they're all competing and everyone's fucking. The balls are enormous. They have the biggest balls mass ratio of any primate, right? The gorilla, which is enormous, can't even find them. They're two little peas because he's not competing with any other males. He's in charge. He has access to all the females. And so that predicts the balls is how much competition there is. So do you think in some primitive level when you see those— well, this is what we were hoping as guys, but I'm learning now is not the case. You would see those enormous plums and go like, well, there's a fit.

There's a lot of babies in there.

You know what though? This semen could be, you know, fragmented, crooked. Could it just be all, you know, crooked cum? It could be crooked cum. Yeah, it could just shoot completely that way. I've never really—

that's it. That's so—

is that direct straight to your asshole?

He's in you, yet you're like, God, I'm getting my hair. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh my God, this episode is a mess. But on the flip side, two tiny pea-sized balls, then like the gorillas also then kind of is high status. It's like, my balls are so small, I get, I get to pick where I don't have to. Yeah, exactly.

These guys are all shooting it out like the Old West from the hip. Sure, sure, sure.

They have to.

Well, I covet that guy's balls. What was his name? Brandon.

Brandon.

Yeah, I wonder how they've held up.

I would say they're probably like Don't you feel similar to—

no, similar.

You got that weight on that scrotum and it's got to be pulling them down.

Sure.

And the scrotum's so interesting because the scrotum's all over the place. It decides how long it wants to be, whatever the temperature is. So you don't even know if you have perky or saggy balls. It's like, ask me the temp.

Yeah, the temp. What's the humidity?

Colorado? Or am I in Hawaii? Truly, they're long.

It's kind of like nipples, I guess. They change.

But isn't it sad? Like, I feel bad for all of us. The stress over your areolas and the workiness and the size. And you even said D-cup thing, but maybe you're—

and my whole life people were like, there's no way you're a D. I'm like, check my bra tag. I don't know what to tell you.

But you could just wear a G, right? And be like, check my bra.

Yeah, there's just so much room. The front fabric is like a sail. It's just like, it's just so much fabric. Yeah, exactly.

You have a Birkin bag in your bra.

Sure.

Oh, like a Mary Poppins sitch.

We were fast forwarding, so let's catch up because that actually was one of my questions and you've kind of already answered it, Alas, tell us how you even discovered that you had the BRCA gene.

Tell us why you're here.

Yeah.

BRCA1.

Okay, my friends, it's nice to see you both. And I think, Rob, we can start recording now and we can go ahead and just turn the— hit the record button and the button that records and go ahead and start that now. And then I start acting totally different. Well, thank you guys so much for having me here today.

You know, I think it's really important that I spread this message of healing and journeying in my health.

That too. And wise assery.

Let's start with your parents.

Okay.

That seems like the appropriate place to start. We've had you many times, and I'm sure we covered them a little bit, but both physical ed teachers. That's right. Yes. In Long Island. They were teaching in Brooklyn.

They were teaching in Brooklyn. But I grew up on Long Island, so my parents are the best. And unlike so many Jewish families, cancer wasn't in the genes. We didn't think. Heart disease. We've talked about this. Our dads— heart disease, stroke, high blood pressure, any number of psychosomatic conditions. Oh, please.

An actually psycho condition.

And then meds and anxieties, all of it.

Yeah.

And so last year, my dad found these lumps under his arm, which my mom, for the first few months, only called nodules. I think Jews have an aversion to saying the thing with the scary name. She was just like, "And so Daddy has these.

Daddy found these." Your father's nodules are back.

Oh, boy.

We got a call this morning. Who was it? Your father's nodules.

Your father's nodules. They called on the phone. I said, "Oh, shit." So my dad found these bumps under his arm, and then By the time they were like, let's just get them out and we'll biopsy them, it turned out they were metastatic carcinomas. And we were like, what? Oh, okay.

Metastatic means the cancer's traveled away from the original site of origin, right?

And what's crazy is to this day they cannot find the original site of origin. So he's some medical enigma where he has metastatic carcinomas that they do not know where they metastasized from.

Oh, I love medical marvels.

Why don't they think it's just breast cancer?

They kind of do now.

Okay, okay, okay.

They kind of do now, but also if it's breast cancer, then they're not metastatic. It's just breast cancer. Yeah, but for some reason they know it's metastatic.

So that must look different or something.

I don't know.

Can I add a weird interesting thing?

You better.

We talked to someone recently about extra nipples, and what we found out is that when people have those extra nipples, they often grow in the armpit. They're not like on your pec or your breast.

Interesting.

They're generally in your armpit, upper arm. This person—

like, we're talking about breast tissue.

It's just like additional breast tissue. Exactly. And they lactate.

Yeah, that's where the nipples grew and they were functional.

They're functional.

Yeah.

So anyways, so he finds this out, they can't figure out where the primary cancer is. And so he does this panel of genetic testing because if he's positive for this, it more likely would be pancreatic. If he's positive for this, it more likely would be colon. And he came back as BRCA positive. BRCA1. Positive.

Tell us what that is.

BRCA is a genetic mutation, and you are positive. So I believe everybody has the BRCA gene. I'm positive for a mutation of the BRCA gene that then unfortunately gives you a very high predetermination, very high chance of getting BRCA for women, breast and ovarian cancer. My dad tests positive. They say to him, tell your kids to get tested. Yeah, because if you have a daughter, that's really where the problem is. Men, often it doesn't even materialize.

Really?

There's an increased chance.

But you don't have ovaries or breasts.

Correct.

Except for your father, who might have extra nipples under his armpit.

Did he get his nodules removed?

He did.

Then he was fine.

Well, then he did radiation, and I have the little video of him ringing the bell. And so he was like, they did a full CAT scan, PET scan, all the scans, cancer-free.

Great.

And yet it metastasized from somewhere.

So strange.

I get tested. I'm BRCA positive. And then I'm like, all right, I don't Google. I'm not Googling. I'm a hypochondriac. I'm a neurotic.

Yeah, let's pause for half a second because, yeah, we need to know your disposition a little bit. We— you know this famous story. Monica and I were watching Kristen read her results from her 23andMe. She misread it, but she truly believed this. She's like, oh, I have early onset Alzheimer's thing. Okay. And then, oh, I have the BRCA gene. And then, oh yeah, mostly Polish.

There was another one too. There were 3. She just rattled off.

Horrible.

Yeah, the ones you almost don't want to take the test.

Oh, we— oh, in case you find that Alzheimer's. Huh. Oh, I have BRCA.

Oh, I have palsy or something. And then the next thing, and then, oh man, I do that cilantro thing.

It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

We've never seen anyone take news like this in our lives to this day. She was nonplussed.

Is she really BRCA positive?

No, no, she misread her thing, but she sincerely thought she was.

Yes.

And We got to see the real reaction. We were like, oh my God, we're kind of bracing for like, wait, we're gonna lose you in 18 months. So Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and we have a couple months. Yes, let's start planning.

Oh my God, girls, come in here.

I set her as like the far end of a spectrum. Yes, right. And then so where are you at on that spectrum?

Well, I'm very proud of myself because I realized As I think a lot of us do, when you are imagining something happening to you, you can catastrophize. You can have anxiety about it. You can be hysterical crying about it. And then the thing happens to you. And I was a machine.

Yeah.

Joe and I were supposed to go to England, Ireland, and Scotland last summer, and we canceled the trip. And I went on a tour of Los Angeles meeting the doctors that this oncologist told me I would need. I say that it's like someone handing you a nail and being like, "Build the house." And you're like, "Who?

How?

When?" Yeah.

Where is the plot of land?

Where's the wood?

Where's the—

how?

Yeah.

So that's basically what happened. They were like, "You are BRCA positive. I found out. Good luck." And then a couple of days later, the doctor's office calls to schedule a surgery. And I'm like, "What surgery? I just have this gene." Right. My dad got the nodules. My dad got the metastatic carcinomas removed. Like, what surgery? Then I start really crying.

Right.

And then I find out that I need a gynecological oncologist, which is not a combination of terms I'm interested in.

Right. Yeah.

A regular oncologist to holistically look at the whole thing, a breast surgeon, a breast plastic surgeon, 'cause those are two completely different jobs.

Yeah.

The person that removes the tissue and the person that does the reconstruction.

Do they leave you open while they just clock in? It's like tag team wrestling?

It is like tag team wrestling.

Okay, good. I just don't want them opening you up twice.

This is a very interesting— interesting thing that I actually am excited to talk about, which is you can do the surgery two different ways. Then the fifth doctor— because of course there's more than four— the fifth doctor is a genetic counselor. And it was the genetic counselor, this rad woman at Providence, who— she looked at all my genetics and everything that they tested for, and she was who deemed that I had an 85% chance of breast cancer and a 65% chance of ovarian cancer. So I'm doing the ovaries soon, but I haven't done them yet.

Okay.

And I did the boobs first. Top down, top down, top down. Yeah, that's why they called me a convertible in high school.

You didn't know why until now.

They knew this time would come. That was good.

That was really good, Jack.

Back to your assets.

I love you guys, I love you guys. It's just genetics. So then I get these numbers, and now, well, now I understand why the doctor's office called and said, when do you want to schedule your surgery? Your girl has a 100 fucking percent chance. Yeah, 85. I get chills every time, and I start to sweat. 85%.

It's not a great number.

Even 50/50, you go like, all right, I got to get this done soon. 85, you're like—

but glass half full, it is a number that you can't ignore.

That makes me want to cry. That was exactly how I looked at it.

Wait, repeat that. I got distracted 6 minutes ago with your convertible joke because it was so good.

Thank you.

And I thought there was another version of it, and then I was distracted by that. I'm owning it and I'm apologizing.

I appreciate that.

I was gonna say that I thought they called you Gas Pump because you like to top off. Oh, Wow.

Okay, well, glad we got that out.

We just wanted to get a bit rocky, you know, a bit—

as she not about to cry, that was terrible.

Okay, sorry, sorry.

No, I just said glass half full is 85 is a number that you can't ignore.

Yes.

So you can't just be like, oh, maybe I'll deal with it, maybe not. No, you're dealing with it.

And that's exactly the silver lining I looked at, cuz I said, with my neuroses and my mental shit, you're giving me a number like 45? Yeah. I'm going.

Oh, you could go crazy.

I could do advanced screening.

Yeah.

For years. They said, before we do the double mastectomy, we wanna make sure you don't already have cancer. Mm-hmm. So we're gonna give you an MRI. And then I found out that they didn't like what the MRI looked like on my way to present at the Creative Arts Emmys.

Ah.

So I'm in the car.

You shouldn't be picking up the phone.

I shouldn't have been picking up the phone, but these doctors are really hard to reach. Oh, true.

Yeah.

And She said she'd call either way, so I didn't think it was a thing of only calling with bad news. Also, if I saw I missed a call, I would be so fucking preoccupied.

You're right.

So I was like, I just answered. And she was like, I think everything's going to be okay, but I don't know. And there's some suspicious cellular groupings, and I think we want to do another MRI. So I was scared. And then I went and presented.

How'd you present? Were you good?

I think I smashed it because I might be a psychopath.

Yeah.

I've asked my therapist.

You're a compartmentalizer.

I mean, that's great. Compartmentalizer, though. I've realized during this journey to a point of like sociopathy. Yeah, yeah, truly. But I've asked my therapist, I've been like, I don't even know looking back how I did it. Yeah, I just did it. I just was like, these are the doctors I'm going to, and I am a machine, and I am getting these surgeries, and I am doing this. So cut back to I get the MRI, she doesn't like it again, and she's like, we're gonna buy it.

She's so fussy this one. I don't like it. What do you like about it?

Standards are so high. And that's the other thing, I'm like, get off back. Yeah.

Yeah.

So then she doesn't like it again, and now she's like, we're gonna do a biopsy.

Can I ask quickly?

Yes.

Why? We're getting in there and removing everything.

That is a good question.

Just so that we would know to start chemo as well, or nothing?

I think maybe— I actually don't know the answer, but what I think the answer is, is that if you have cancer, a double mastectomy is sufficient, but sometimes you can't keep your nipples depending on where the cancer is. If it's right there by your nipple, you're gonna lose your nipples. And if the cancer is here, they have to really focus on getting that tissue out and getting everything out. And also then you have to be starting with the PET scans and CAT scans, seeing if it's anywhere else.

Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. All right.

With ovaries, the challenging part is there's no good screening for ovaries. It doesn't exist. It's 2026 and the screening does not exist.

Meaning they can give you an MRI on your ovaries or no?

They can do an ultrasound.

Oh.

A pelvic ultrasound. And they put the wand in and they do the diagnostic. The problem is your ovaries, speaking of gorilla balls, they're these little tiny grape-sized things in your body and they just don't have the advanced surveillance. Like with breasts, when you get an MRI and a biopsy, you can find out if you're stage 0, stage negative 1. You can find out if there's a grouping of cells that they don't like that they're gonna keep an eye on.

Yeah.

That they're just gonna get 'em out of there before you're even stage 1.

Right.

Like Breast surveillance is best of the best in cancer land. I want to tell everybody about the whole journey and what to expect because it's crazy. And I somehow made it to my 40s without anyone talking to me about BRCA. I vaguely heard that it was maybe that thing that happened with Angelina Jolie, right? But I remember thinking like, oh God, that's so extreme. How her? How her to be like, you know what, I'm getting them taken off completely. Which is what a lot of people thought was very extreme when I was doing it.

Do you think the underlying current of that is like some weird jealousy over where it looks like, oh yeah, you're so hot, you don't even care if you cut off your boobs? Like, do you think that was driving the anger?

Very possible socially. But my thing was more like, you know, she wears like Billy Bob Thornton's blood around. Turned out you're like, she's so edgy. But like, it turns out you have a 100% chance of getting cancer. What are you gonna do, leave them there?

Exactly.

Turns out she wasn't edgy, she was super safe. Correct.

Yeah.

Just brilliant as she is. So basically, when I got the MRI, then I went back for a second one, then I had to go back for a third one. And then when I got my breast biopsied, I was just unlucky. And I was waiting in the biopsy office afterward. They numb your breast, and it was my right breast. And so I'm sitting there, and then I feel something soaking wet at my stomach, and I look down. It is not good. I am bleeding.

Oh, from the biopsy?

Oh my God.

Yeah. And they had already stitched it and closed it.

And am I crazy in thinking that that's a very controlled procedure? It's done with a scope, and it seems like not something that would lead to great bleeding.

That's right. And I'm out of it because I took a Xanax before the third MRI. Yeah, because you're in the machine for 45 minutes, claustrophobic, the crazy loud noises. You're laying on your stomach. Your tits are in like a hole in the MRI.

Like a trough.

A trough. Thank you. A trough.

Yeah. Titties are in a trough.

Tit trough.

And I'm in a trough. The tit trough, of course. You have my other nickname in high school. And I'm in the tit trough, and they do the biopsy. I don't feel anything. Everything's fine. I'm sitting in the waiting room because this is another crazy thing— they give you a mammogram right after you get a breast MRI, huh, with a biopsy.

It seems reverse squishing it all.

We should flip that order.

So I'm waiting in the room to do the mammogram, and that's when I realized And I am, like, out of it, and I'm on a chill pill, and I'm terrified. And I, like an episode of Grey's Anatomy, I just, like, run into the hallway, and I'm screaming. Oh, God. I don't scream. This is me. It's loud all the time. But I'm not screaming.

Yeah, yeah.

And I'm just going, like, "Is there a nurse? I'm bleeding!" And a woman comes by with, like, a trash can. She runs over to me, and I'm like, "I need a nurse. Thank you so much." And she starts laughing a little bit. She's like, "I am a nurse. These are soiled linens. I'm not a janitor." And I was like, "Okay." And then she takes me into some woman's office. Office. She was like, excuse us, the nurse in the office leaves. And she's like opening this thing, and someone has to come up from downstairs and restitch. And it was like a whole—

oh God, in her office?

In somebody's office?

Oh wow.

Yeah, it was wild.

So it just wasn't stitched correctly.

They were asking if I took like Advil the 5 days prior because my blood was— and I was like, I didn't. I'm a student.

Yes, you tell me you are a student, don't take Advil, I won't.

Also, I'm always insulted when the first line of inquiry is like, I fucked up. I didn't sew my own breast. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, I didn't have the needle and thread.

You must have had aspirin for breakfast.

Oh, yeah.

Didn't you? You little piggy, you love your aspirin.

Exclusively.

And I added milk and cereal.

Crunch, crunch, crunch.

Crunch, crunch, crunch. So after that experience, even though I was already set on the surgery, I was like, well, I'm not doing more of these. I'm not doing more of these MRIs, biopsies. We think we find something, we don't find something. Those weeks where I was— months, because you have to wait weeks in between— that time, time— I have chills again— was the worst time of the whole thing, except the recovery was tough. But that time was the worst because I was like, oh no, what I'm out here waving my flag about is I partnered with the genetic testing company Myriad that discovered the BRCA gene. This company is unbelievable, and you literally spit in a tube and it comes back. It's not even a blood test with your historical, from your family, your genetic mutations and these cancer risks.

Yeah, and you had multiple things going on, right? Because also Ashkenazi Jews are 1 in 40. So you had a lot of compounding genetics, right?

So this is what is nuts. So Myriad, or any of these genetic testing companies, insurance will cover your test if you have these 3 things: young, rare, multiple. So if someone in your family has cancer young, your mom or dad, you can get this covered by insurance. If there's multiple cancers, you also qualify. And if you have a rare, like my dad— male breast cancer is considered rare.

Yeah, obviously.

First time I've ever heard of it.

Ever. Yeah. Alan. Uh-huh.

And there's still not even saying it. I think there is like, there's some like stigma or something. Like, they're like, they won't say that.

They don't want to emasculate them.

My mother does that enough.

They'd rather lie and say it's a metastasized. Yeah, it's like, not at all.

100%.

Sounds so manly.

Yeah.

Your cancer rode in on a Harley, goes by the name of metastasized.

All of this to say, there's a fourth sort of unspoken reason that you should obviously get genetic tested other than rare, multiple, and young is Ashkenazi Jew.

Yeah.

So less than— I don't wanna say the exact number cuz I think it changes.

Forgive me, are the Ashkenazis mostly the Russian diaspora?

Eastern European. Yeah.

Okay.

Russian Eastern European. Okay. And so what's crazy is, don't quote me on this, but the point is the number is unbelievably small of the number of people who test positive for the BRCA mutation. It's like between 0.2% 2 and 0.3% of the population.

Oh wow, very rare.

Nobody has this. 1 in 40 Jews.

Wow.

1 in 40 Ashkenazi specifically Jews, which is 2.5%. I don't know if it even is.

1 in 40 is 2.5%. So if you're— your national average is 0.2, this is tenfold.

Yeah, it's 10 times. That's exactly right. I thought you were saying Ashkenazi Jews are 2.5% of the population, and I was like, oh no, there's about 18 of us left.

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So with Myriad, it's basically you spit in the tube and then you send it away and you get all these answers. And the reason that I really wish that I got miniature flags on Amazon, the reason that I'm out here waving the flag so hard, is because I managed to get to this age and nobody said anything to me. How is that possible? I know. I will tell you a couple things. The doctors that I use used for the double mastectomy and the reconstruction. Not only are they just such badasses, amazing women, because of them and because of these genetic counselors and this amazing team that I was able to put together, I do actually feel the gratitude. I think I'll feel real relief when I have my ovaries out and then all of the surgeries are behind me and I'm good to go. Even though I did already do the breasts, I am I am in between. Yeah, the two.

Okay, so to make this trivial and not as important as it is, I am curious if you came to me at one point and you said, okay, we're going to remove your penis and you're going to design a new one. That's a very interesting proposition. What's that experience like for so many women who messaged me?

Because I now talk to everybody on Instagram asking who my doctor was and what size I went and what kind of implants I use.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And the thing I think that's really, really oppressive about the whole diagnosis is there are 100,000 decisions. Every single thing is 5,000 decisions. Everything. So it's like, which doctor you're using is so many decisions. Then you go with them and then it's like, when's the surgery? How long is the— do I do straight to implant while I'm asleep? Do I do two separate surgeries? Do I do expanders? And then do— when do I do the ovary? I mean, that's the part that I think is fatiguing. Yeah, yeah, every day the amount of questions. So then I talked to a person who got the straight-to-implant, and then I spoke to somebody who did the two separate surgeries.

How long did they wait in between? If they wait a while for the two separate surgeries, my understanding—

I didn't do this— my understanding is you get your breasts removed, and then what they put in, you wake up with expanders in your skin flap because there's no breast tissue there, and then they just keep adding— I think it's either air or water or silicone, whatever they're adding to the extender to fill out your boob. But I think there are these like plastic things that are in there, and they feel interesting from what I understand. You're also apparently with the expanders, they're not like cute round, like it's like an interesting thing. I hear it's like a little bit—

why would anyone do that?

I am afraid— I don't want to be judgmental at all.

No, there's no judgment.

I I don't know, right? I don't know, like, what the pro is. What the pro is— my understanding is that the pro often comes from doctors who say— because doing the 2-in-1 is not new, but within the last 15 years, like, it's not what they used to do. They used to absolutely be 2 surgeries.

Okay, okay.

And then, in fact, my doctor, this amazing woman, Dr. Kasliff, she wrote the She was like the head of plastics at Cedars for a couple terms.

Amazing.

And she was like, this is doable. We don't need to be giving women two separate surgeries.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then there are other doctors who are like, my experience is that the healing is better and there's less chance. 'Cause there's a lot of things that can happen when you get a double mastectomy. So when you're looking into it, like necrosis is something which is terrifying. You're getting your tissue removed so close to your skin that like if they go too close to your skin, that piece of your skin dies. You could possibly need skin grafting. There could be pain. Pain. I mean, chronic pain afterwards. There's the phantom— there's something called an iron bra.

Oh no.

So I'm looking all of this up beforehand. What's an iron bra? Your tits are so heavy. Everything is like heavy, but it's not heavy. It's just— it feels heavy.

Oh wow.

So it's like a phantom limb or something.

It's like our pain expert.

Fantastic episode.

Yeah, one of the best of the year.

Oh, I can't wait to listen. There's so many things that could happen. And speaking of gratitude, none of it happened. My tits look adorable.

Yeah.

None of my skin is necrotic. The size was Exactly right. Dr. Kaslith and Dr. Richardson, they said when they were looking, she goes, "We're gonna prop you up when you're out, and we're gonna put 'em in." And it's 3 women. It's her nurse, and it's Dr. Richardson and Dr. Kaslith. "And we are gonna look at your boobs, and we're gonna be like— and we tried this bigger size, and they just looked huge on you." And so then we went with this size. When I woke up, she was like, "I hope you're happy. We made them a little bit smaller." And you know how many friends I have that said, especially with male doctors, they wake up and their tits are bigger than they agreed to.

But also I think the norm is— am I wrong? Women want bigger boobs. But you're in a unique situation.

I was going to stop you earlier when you said it. You said, you know, girls are like, I must, I must—

Yeah, when they're kids.

Yeah, when they're kids. That is not, not even my personal experience, but my experience with women. I have not heard that.

I have a thought.

Yeah.

When did you start growing boobs?

Young. 7th grade.

I didn't get my period till 10th grade, so I wore a padded bra and stuffed a little bit in 9th grade because I was bored. Right. It was embarrassing. I was absolutely a plyboard.

Yeah.

And it wasn't even real wood. It's so sad. And it was just like bad. And then I remember I wore the padded bra and boys started saying like, oh, you got boobs over the summer.

Uh-huh.

Sure.

And I was like, okay, okay. And so I always wanted boobs because I never had them. Then there was a girl in my high school who had like triple D, E, G, tiny as you. I don't know if I've ever seen it again in life.

Yeah.

And 16 years old.

It's like if you are a woman or a girl who's flat, you're like, oh, I want boobs. I want some boobs. And if you have boobs, you're like, oh, I want less, right? That's just the way it goes. But also, most people I think who get— well, I shouldn't say most, I don't know any of these percentages— most people who get implants aren't getting double D's, they're getting around C's or B's.

Yeah, definitely now and in LA.

Correct, it's changed.

But we had 30 years where actually everyone got double D's.

The only reason to get implants was like, if you're just going up a size, what's the point? Yeah. But now the other thing that's is when you get breast implants, I was showing them pictures of the boobs that I liked and the sizes.

Okay, so where did you find those pictures?

Well, what's really funny is there's a drag queen named Bosco, who's a trans woman, and she wore her real tits out on the runway of Drag Race. And I said, "I have never seen fake boobs like this in my life." So I DM'd her.

Oh, wow! And I was like—

I love your breasts.

She wrote me right back, and she sent me a picture. This is the other thing about this fucking journey. Journey. It makes me cry. The sisterhood. She wrote me right back. She sent a picture of the back of her implants card. Then when I spoke to my doctors about it, they were like, totally, we love that. I'm not sure how a teardrop would be on you and this. And just like, we talked all through it. And the other thing was, I have friends who have breast implants, and my concern was that, because I don't have breast tissue, so when you put a breast implant— you would never— but if you did, it would go seamlessly in because you have plenty of breast tissue to go around it, smooth out the edges. I could look like I have two half cantaloupes, just round.

Totally.

And I was like, ooh, gaggy. But there's nothing they could do.

It doesn't look like that.

If it does, it's because you're skinny and your rib cage, your chest bones are there. Right. This is ribs, right?

Yeah.

I'm not bright.

Well, only one of us has made it to the semifinals on Jeopardy in this room, so—

That's right.

You can only—

I was so confident. I was like, your ribs. And then I thought, oh God, Dax is going to know that's not—

No, that does feel high up for ribs, right?

Well, like collarbone, right? There's that whole—

and so now I'm just like a genetic testing person where I'm like, we have this opportunity to find this out.

Can someone just ask their normal GP, I want this test, or do you go online and order it?

The Myriad one, you go online. It's learnmyrisk.com. It's so easy.

Learnmyrisk.com. Go on there, you order it, you spit in the tube, you send it out, they send you back.

Yep. And there's an app. I had my information right on the website. Oh God, it's devastating. But you know, there's a big red plus sign in a circle and you're just like, oh boy, I have this.

Oh, that's the iconography for positive. Sure, like a sunshine.

Yeah, could you imagine? It's a— it's a— a smiling emoji with the cry-tearing. It's so happy. It's hysterical laughing.

So happy.

I know that certain people I guess, want— I don't know, they have a different theory of just like, "I don't wanna know. I'll deal with it when I get there." And that's just not me, especially given that when I got my breast tissue removed, they found stuff in there. I have a screengrab of the pathology test results, and the words are terrifying. "Precarcinomic this and that." And when the doctor, Kasliff, called me with those results, she was like almost— not shrieking, but almost. Almost like, we did it, right?

We did it.

Like, so sometimes we take people's breast tissue out and there's nothing in there, and that's wonderful. And who knows if in 10 years it would have been something. Also, with BRCA, they recommend you get your ovaries out before 40 and your breasts removed before 40.

Whoa.

And I'm 45. Yeah. And so it's like, you know, it becomes a borrowed time situation where you're like, uh, 'cause the numbers increase after 40, obviously. And so she was like, there was stuff in there. We I did it. That had to be one of the best days of my life. Even though I had to go through all this, I'm like, yo, that's crazy, dude.

Yeah, yeah.

You're just living with it.

And we talk about this too, which is so scary. My dad is the greatest, but my dad has been through so much shit. You know, he said, I made it this far so you could find out. He felt so bad about the Bracca. I feel so bad you got this from me.

Like, he went shopping for it. I regret buying that. That was an impulse buy.

I regret purposefully putting that gene gene in you.

Yeah.

So he was just so upset. And then when we look at the bright side, it's like, dude, you absolutely saved my life.

Yeah. What's your anxiety level out of 10? Do you feel like that took it to zero, or do you feel like, oh, I just don't like that I have that gene?

Well, here's something which is crazy because you both know how neurotic I am. I have a friend who years ago, every single thing that ever happened to her. She had cancer in her brain. She was like, oh my God, I have cancer. She had a really sore throat for a long time, and she was like, it's 100%, I have cancer. Everything was cancer.

I don't know why.

Neither of her parents had cancer. I just was never that, not with cancer. I was just like, you know, I have nuts and I catastrophize, but it was never cancer. And so this happened, I had to recalibrate all of my mental bullshit of like, wait a minute, now I have this thing that people get scared of their whole life. I don't, God forbid, have cancer, but I I have this, you know, predisposition. I was gonna say proclivity.

Yeah. Yeah.

God forbid. I love you that every time I knock, you knock. I know it's gonna make me cry. I know. Because you know why I knock?

I'm a knocker.

I'm a knocker too.

Oh, I know. I knock all the time. But if I see you knock, I have to knock.

It's making my heart explode.

So— You guys are— yeah. You're knockers. Yeah. Well, ding ding ding! Yeah. Sorry. It just all— it all synthesized perfectly.

Just wow. We should call it that.

Do you guys want to think about a side podcast called Knockers?

Yeah, of course I do. Oh my God, that'd be great. Just like the sisterhood of the traveling tits.

Yeah.

Of it all. One of my best friends, Ilse, I told her about this diagnosis and she was like, oh, my friend has this. Do you want to talk to her? And I was like, yeah, more than anything. So my whole life became— I met up with this woman, Nina. We sit down at Alfred on Ventura Boulevard. Boulevard, and I am kind of hysterical, and I don't know what to expect. But now I've learned my numbers, and I'm like, oh, I gotta do this. So now I'm looking for a medical team. I'm past that weird month where I didn't know if I was just going to do advanced surveillance, as they call it. And I'm sitting down, and I have tears in my eyes, and she goes, let's go to your car. And I go, oh, okay, because I'm crying. And she goes, no, I'm going to show you my boobs, and I think it'll make you feel better because they're outrageous.

You're gonna love what you see, baby.

You're gonna want to buy them.

You're gonna like the way you look.

You're gonna like the way you look.

So we We get into the car, she lifts up her shirt and they're gorgeous. Yeah. And they don't look fake at all. And they're just perky. And her nipples were going. I was like, you got to keep— I didn't know.

Yeah.

You got to keep your nipples. And she goes, oh yeah. If you're getting preventative double mastectomy and you don't have cancer, which is why they do the testing, then you can largely keep your nipples.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

So my boobs look the same as they did before.

This is very personal, but sensitivity, have we lost any sensitivity? We have. But that could return?

It could return. I had a facial a couple of days ago and the woman was at my house and I felt her pull the sheet up and my tits were out. I didn't know.

Oh wow! This could lead to all kinds of funny future wardrobe malfunctions that you don't know about.

Ask Kristin whatever press we just did. I had a low-cut thing and I said let me know if my tit's out. I won't know. Yeah, I will not know. Okay.

We're just going to need to be using a lot of tape—

A lot of the tape and a lot of friendship of just being like bup-bup-bup-bup.

Bup, bup, bup, bup.

Even the nipple? You can't?

No, no, especially the nipple. Nothing.

So if we punched you, baby, let's go. Wow.

If you had to get punched. But I've had many surgeries, as you know. Yeah, my whole shoulder was completely dead. Like, the whole left upper quadrant of my body was just like zero feeling from all the nerves that were cut. They've all come back, unfortunately. Now I need to get one cut, but they all came back. So you might be shocked.

And these doctors, they're out of this place called the Bedford Breast Center. That's all they do. They're just boobs all day. They're not at a hospital and there's like random plastic surgery they do. It's the Bedford Breast Center.

Yeah.

And so, not that it's experimental, but not all places do this. They do nerve sparing. There's an extra hour and a half added to my surgery because they reconnected nerves after they were cut. And I was like, is that going to equal phantom pain? And they were like, no, it actually lessens the chance of phantom pain. And And so I can feel like here a little bit now.

Oh.

And it'll be exciting when I'll be like, oh, and this girl Nina, who famously showed me her boobs immediately, said she was so excited. Like a year later she was like, I ran into the kitchen and I told my husband. I'm like, Evan, I feel my nipple. Yeah.

Okay. I have a question. So overall anxiety, this could go either way because you are an anxious person, as am I.

Queen.

I feel like I always thought, you know, something could be wrong or something might be wrong. Stronger. And then when I had my seizures and I got diagnosed with epilepsy—

I'm on the edge today, everything's gonna make me cry. Well, that's just so hard. I know, it's so hard.

Okay, but it really helped my anxiety because I was like, oh, the fuck is wrong with me? It was like, oh, for one, it was like I knew something was wrong, and then now it's vindicated.

Now it's vindicated.

And then it's like, oh, but that bad thing, like the idea of having a seizure, and then it's like, oh, I did have I have it and I'm fine.

This is exactly what I was saying before. It helps. And it's the catastrophizing in life that we do. When you actually have the thing that you're terrified of and you figure out the steps to get through it and you're better on the other side. If someone told me a year and a half ago that you're gonna have an 85% chance of getting it, I don't know what I would've done. But then when you just tell me there's not a chance, you have it, go ahead, figure it out. There was no anxiety at that point.

There's no time for any of that. Yeah, it kind of makes you realize kind of how indulgent anxiety and fear is, because I say this all the time, it's like all these things you fear, I've walked through many of them now and they're fine. They're weirdly fine. You show up, you arrive at the thing, you pick your dad up, you take him to the chemo, you're there, you talk to the person while you're there, you make that person laugh, you just walk through it all. Yet when you think about it, it seems completely insurmountable, completely undoable. And what is the fucking utility of it? Like, why do we have such an outside—

I think to prevent us from getting ourselves in situations.

Sticky pickles.

Yeah, sticky pickles. But it's too much.

But don't they say, like, the reason we have it, we have anxiety and fear, is like from the times when a lion would attack you, and now you have that level of anxiety, but it's because you don't know which cold medicine to buy.

Yes.

And you're like, I'm going to get this, it's going to fuck up my whole—

I do think in the absence of real threats, all the mechanisms are still there, but there's nothing real to focus on.

Correct.

I mean, we're worrying about whether you're going to die at 80 or 90. It's like, what?

It's almost like, are they going gonna make the teenage—

yeah, yeah, teenage years in the hunting and gathering society. So yeah, I think we have all this architecture for it and no outlet for it, so we just start searching.

To me, there are some things like— I started that doc. Have you guys seen the doc about the girl who like drove the car into a crash or something? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Of course.

So this girl drove a car into a wall or something with her boyfriend and a friend, and those two died, and she survived. And now she's being, like, charged with murder or something. So, okay, I couldn't actually finish it because I started it, and because it was clearly about teenagers in car accidents and dying, I felt so anxious. And I was like, there's too many teenagers in my life right now. Oh, I started to really have some panic, and I was like, I don't think I can watch this, because that's a real fear. These kids out on the road driving around, these like little babies being drunk on mushrooms. They shouldn't be out there. I don't like that. But because those are real premium fears, I think your brain can't really handle that level of like, these teenagers might end up in these horrible situations. So it's like, yeah, cough medicine. It like funnels into Yes, because your brain can't sort of handle. Does that make sense?

Yes. Howard Stern used to say this all the time, but like, your brain can't even focus on dying for any length of time. You'll think of something else because your brain is not going to let you sit there and really focus on it.

It's not a good zone. It's not a good zone. Yeah, I've been thinking this a lot lately, and I guess the reason I've been thinking about it a lot is because of the fervor of anger and how upset everyone is. Politically and just kind of countrywide. And some part of me just keeps going, yeah, dude, you're on this planet for a minute and you literally get to think about whatever you want, and you get to get angry or upset or in love. You're just on this ride and you're going to be gone. And we're here for some period and we'll be gone. And this planet was here for a minute and it'll be gone. It's like, on some level, I think it's healthy to zoom out a bit and go like, "Yeah, all your concerns, although they are valid, there's a reality of how you're spending your time on this trip, on this planet, which also needs to be evaluated and balanced." There's an old Bob Newhart sketch this is reminding me of, and he was a therapist on his show, and people would come into his—

I feel like I may have told you this already, but people would come into his office on the sketch, on The Bob Newhart Show, and he was a therapist, and he would sit there with his paper and pen, and they would start saying all the things, and he would go over to them and shake them and go, "Stop it!" Yeah, that's how he would break through. And they would be like, "But my mother and my father, and they didn't, and it wasn't good, and what they did to my—" "Stop it!" Yes.

Yeah.

And you just go like, "Stop it." This whole country just needs someone to grab them by the shoulders and just go, "Stop it." Exactly.

And I have to say it to myself, and I think of that sketch and Jackie, "Stop it!" all the time. But what's really crazy is that is that this whole journey has not been an anxiety-riddled journey. It's the antithesis. It's like, I am a machine who handles things. Yeah. I just handle it. Confidence, really.

Confidence building.

Who's she, bitch? I know. It's crazy. That's so cool.

I want to get really philosophical. Death. Yeah. Even if you walk through all of that— Jackie, step in that coffin.

Step over there.

Rob's going to pull out a subcompact machine gun. Oh, man.

OK, well, now I want And to know.

even if you work through, like, so much of the catastrophization, right, of everything is like you stop at the big event and then you don't walk beyond that. Okay, someone died in a car accident. What's after that? And I think you have our own death to think about, which is like, truly, you're not going to know, right? Like, you're fearing something you can't experience. So what a waste, right? Because you're not going to know. And that's that. So there's nothing to feel bad about on your behalf because you're not going to suffer. There's no moment you're going to be reflecting and going, oh, I wish I was still there. That's not what's going going to happen. So, okay, I don't need to feel bad for me because I'm not going to experience any discomfort. So now we're just talking about the sadness of death is for the people that are left. Yes, there, right? But even that, you need to think about all that. I've lost people. I've lost my father. I kind of love my dad more now than I ever have. I don't know. I don't know if that's where we would have gotten to if he made it to 100.

I don't know. The love and the infusion of the people that are here, that's not going anywhere. You can't take that from me. I can miss my day-to-day interaction with you, but I think the past version of me would be like, fuck yeah, I got to meet that person on this trip. So it's like, even if you start working through what it'll really look like on the other side of these things we're so afraid of, it's like, well, the person that died, they got no issues. It's the people that are alive. But then there's also all kinds of beautiful ways that the people who are then living get to channel that person and talk about the person. Like, you know, it's all manageable. We're not so fucking fragile.

No, that is my takeaway. People ask all the time, they're like, so are you now like, don't sweat the small stuff? And I was like, someone put that bumper "Are you sick? Are you either sick or dumb?" No, I'm gonna sweat the small stuff for fucking ever. Yeah. No, I am still just as upset about Minutia as I was before this whole thing. But the big difference is that exact thing. There's this perspective shift where I'm not that fragile. I got it. Like, I am, uh, you know, I think in our lives, we're always told, "You don't say good things about yourself. That's conceited. That's this, that's that." But I am a fucking badass warrior who did these crazy things. Crazy difficult things, and I just did them. And if you are going through this, you can do that. You'll just do them. When I'm DMing with anybody that's going through it, my first thing is I'm always just like, you got this. Even if you don't think you got— you do. You'll be on the other side of this. I was DMing with one girl who was like, I'm 2 weeks out and I'm so miserable.

Am I ever gonna feel better? And I was like, queen, you will be dancing a soft shoe without having breast cancer. I mean, truly, in 3 weeks. Yeah, but 2 weeks sucks. Oh, sucks. It sucks. And you don't want to talk about that because I want people to do what they need to do, but it's part of it. It sucks. The recovery is rough.

I will say the most eye-opening part of my dad's cancer thing was taking him to chemo, and in that room was almost 100% women in their 30s. Scared. And I was like, sick. Whoa, this is not what I was expecting. I thought it was going to be a bunch of old men who smoke cigarettes hooked up to these machines. And I was like, oh, there's a real epidemic. I know people have been saying it, but like to see it in person, the chemo room's just full of women with breast cancer.

It's crazy. It's like the numbers of people who get breast cancer, it's like 20,000 people per state per year. Oh my goodness. I mean, it's just a massive— that's an ish. So there's states where it's 10 or 11. It's crazy. And I always say this too, but I'm a doctor person. I got a doctor for every part of my body. I go to the doctor. For something like this to get past me, right?

It's not like I'm a head-in-the-sand person.

Exactly.

I have a girlfriend who was helping me with some interior design stuff, and she was like, yeah, my mom has it, but I just haven't been tested. And I was like, your mom has BRCA? Yeah. And you're just raw dogging it? Yeah. I didn't judge. In my mind I did. I didn't out loud judge. But it's like, you gotta— yeah, I do really have trouble understanding. Whatever you do with the information, I guess, is your choice. It's just really hard for me to wrap my brain around. You know, that way.

But I I totally get it, and I'm fine. Not which way. My way is I'd rather know. I thought you were saying not know, and I was like, bro, no, but I understand. I understand people who choose to not know. I think it's fine. And I think I have that feeling because with my dad, I really tried to get him to do certain things, and after he was gone, I was like, A, what a waste of time that was. B, it was tension we didn't need. And guess what? That was his fucking journey to do however he want. Guess what? It wasn't my fucking business or my choice. And so when my stepdad got it, he made some nuts decisions. I became the spokesperson for the Prostate Cancer Foundation so I could get him into a trial. I get him into this trial no one can get into. He goes to one appointment, he's like, yeah, I'm not gonna do it. And because I had already had my dad, I was like, cool, man, this is yours, dude. This is your ride, and I totally honor it. And I wasn't resentful. So I do I do totally respect people who are like, oh yeah, it doesn't interest me.

I'm on the journey I'm on and I'm cool with it. I'm fine with that. That's not what I would do. It doesn't bother me too much because I do think that's all you have for your autonomy is really you deciding. And whether that to me makes no sense or not, it's like it's the one thing you have.

Yeah. And you decide if you don't want— and apparently, I mean, thank God a million times again, I don't know about chemo, but it's not uncommon for people to say, I think I'm all set. Oh, it's gonna make me cry. I think I'm all set here.

Yeah, I've done it. I've already done it.

I don't want to do this anymore. The Atul Gawande way, you really do have to evaluate, is this a quantity play or a quality play? And both are legitimate.

What are we talking about for 3 weeks? 3 weeks. Yeah. I mean, even if you think it's years, but if you're going to be in a bed the whole time, it's like, well, I want to be in a bed.

18 months to 9 months. But 9 months I can go on walks with my family in Europe. In the other version, I sit in a bed for 18 months and people come and cry next to me. Who's to say which one is—

And look at me like I'm already gone. It's— Oh, that whole thing. I mean, everyone gets to decide.

Everyone gets to make their own decision.

You occasionally hear these stories where it's like the dad didn't tell anyone he had cancer, right? Everyone's so mad, so mad, and everyone's so shocked by that. But I did say to Kristen, I'm like, you know, I'm not ruling that out because I don't wish to spend the last year of my life breaking everyone's heart I'm in love with. So sue me. I don't want my last year of my life with my girls looking at me with total sadness and I'm ruining their existence. Distance versus I'm still dying on the same day and I might tell you 3 months before so you can do whatever closure you want. It doesn't seem as crazy to me as when I would first hear about it. Like, guess what? It's my last year of life, motherfuckers, right? How do I want to spend it? Being pitied? That's my most hated fucking feeling. So I don't know, it's a fucking tough one.

If it's for them, you might want to ask now.

Well, I brought up the other day, it didn't go well. How would you want—

because like, I prefer having time, being on the other side. Like, my grandfather was basically dying for so long. Too long. Too long. And it was hard, but I'm glad it happened that way because I did get to mourn his death before his body died. And that was good for me personally, right?

Because then by the time he died, I really could feel gratitude for him, that it was time you were able to spend with him, given you had the information, and really say goodbye.

Yeah, really feel all feelings. So if it's for the people in your life, you might want to give them the option.

I'll just say for the record, I don't currently have any terminal diagnosis. Right, right, right. Yeah. Huge. And there might be a day when you ask me if I have that, when I say I'd rather not answer that because I refuse to lie to you. And then you'll—

now I have to ask you every day.

Goddamn it. And I have to carry around a piece of wood. Exhausting. My poor Nuts. My poor goddamn nuts.

Uh, I have a quick question. Yeah, please. When you got the diagnosis, did it do anything— or even when you got the surgeries, did it do anything to your identity? Did it do anything to your female identity?

I love that question. Believe it or not, it really didn't. Good. It didn't at all. I'm so glad. And I'm also speaking with people who are very worried about that, and I feel for them because My boobs are not why I feel like a woman. I mean, no part of me is really why I feel like a woman. I don't know. I've never been classically feminine in a lot of ways where like a wedding doesn't really speak to me. Right. Well, you wore a tux at your bat mit, so. I wore a tux at my bat mit. I had to learn from a friend the hard way how to celebrate when someone has an engagement ring. Mm-hmm. Because I was like, oh, it's so pretty. Mm-hmm. And then she like called me later and was like, I don't even know how to have this conversation with you. Everybody but you screamed and went crazy. Okay. But that's on I'm sorry.

I don't know who that is.

That's on them. It is a little bit, but it's also like, I get it. I'm reacting to it in a way that I don't really want an engagement ring. I don't really care. It's not something that ever meant anything to me. And I think similarly, I've never been a woman who is like, my sexuality and my femininity. You know what would make me lose my sense of self is if I woke up and I wasn't funny tomorrow.

I would jump off a bridge. Totally.

But if I have to get a life-saving surgery, surgery. Also, I remember going on a carpet truly way too soon after the surgery because I'm disturbed. And I went to one of the award shows, and a girlfriend of mine who was at the award show, who'd been through the whole thing and was who actually recommended the doctors to me, she DM'd me afterwards and was like, oh my gosh, you look amazing, so excited, let me know when your surgery is. Because she was like, you obviously didn't get it yet, you're at an award show doing amazing with perky tits. And I was like, oh no, I did it already. And so because of things like this and because of what an amazing job they did, I think I'd feel differently if I was like, oh my God, I got hatcheted. Yeah.

And your value, you know, your value isn't placed there. But for some people it is.

I know a lot of people are writing to me too being like, I'm not getting the reconstruction. I don't wanna do it. Yeah. That sounds like a headache. I'm like, okay, great. Yeah.

Again, everyone makes their own each.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert. If you dare. Okay, I want to transition to a couple professional questions. Please. One is, I don't think we've talked about any of your previous trips here, but when you were 18, after a semester at Delaware, you and Aggie Gold, your agent from Fresh Face Talent— I hate you. And your mother— Never hated you more. Came out to LA on a break after the first semester. Semester, and you meet Jessica Biel, and you end up living with her and her family in Calabasas. But the thing that was— there's so many interesting things to that.

I don't know how you could possibly have a question about such an obvious thing.

The one I'm, I'm most obsessed with is it said you guys met at a TV Guide Awards. Okay, so just explain to me what the award show was that you met at and why you would have been there if you're a student at Delaware.

The answer to the question is yes. So So, when I was 18, I came out on this break, and I was friends with Ben Salisbury, who was the son on The Nanny. And I had been on The Nanny twice.

Playing, to remind everyone, young Fran Drescher. Yes. And then— Sort of young Fran Drescher.

Sort of young Fran. But a different incarnation of Fran. So, first I played her second cousin, and then I played a girl in the classroom that was supposed to be— The flashback. —basically exactly like her. I'm friends with Ben. He's one of my only California friends. And he knew that I loved Jessica Biel. And he was like, "Just, you know, people call her Jessie." I'm like, "Okay, sick. Hope one day to be able to utilize that." So he was invited to the TV Guide Awards, which were hosted that year by Drew Carey. Of course. But it was the most— I mean, low rent doesn't even cut it. We'll have to Google what a TV Guide Award even looks like.

So you were his date?

I was like his friend date, and our moms were friends. And so it was me and Ben, I believe his mom and mine, my mom, and then Jessica Biel was there, who I love.

Was she nominated for a TV Guide Award? Probably. She must have been. 7th Heaven? 7th Heaven.

Ben was probably nominated for The Nanny because that was still on. So maybe it was like, you know, best kid, the TV Guide Awards, like best kid actor. They used to also have like the Young Hollywood Awards. And that I coveted. Oh, I coveted going to these. I so badly wanted to be involved, but I wasn't getting hired at that time at all. So I was Ben's plus one, and then I met Jessie Biel there. He was like, Jackie, this is just Jesse, and I just was immediately like, oh dude, I love you, I'm obsessed with you. Yeah. And she was like, oh thanks so much. She has a deeper voice than me, which is crazy. Yeah. Oh, thanks, thanks so much, dude. And then we became immediate friends.

Okay, but really quick, that's already a rare event. She's already on TV, she goes to TV Guide Awards, she meets you, and she's like, yeah, I have space to start hanging out with you. Is weird. No, weird.

Yeah, but we were immediately like, our personalities, similar to me and KB, where like you wouldn't necessarily think, but then it just works. There's a Similar thing with KB. I mean, she wasn't a TV star yet, but when we met, we were like, "Oh." There was, like, an immediate game recognizing game. Like, funny, snarky. But very complementary.

You guys are in very defined lanes that are not the same. Correct.

I, for example, am not America's sweetheart. Sí, señora. Okay. We, however, are in similar lanes. So, Jess, we became super fast friends. We exchanged numbers. And then the next day, I was leaving in, like, 4 days. And I was like, "Oh, what are you doing?" And she was like, "Oh, let's go. I'm going to LA." to Tybo. Oh, remember Tybo?

Tybo boxing. Billy Blanks. Billy Blanks. BB.

I have not heard, babe, the term Tybo in 20, 30 years.

Truly. And then she was who convinced me— I don't know that she admits this, but she is who convinced me to drop out of college. Oh, and it wasn't a hard convince. It literally— I was like, I can't live here, I have nowhere to live. She was like, live with my family. And I was like, see you, Delaware.

So that part is the interesting— so she was on 7th Heaven.

What ages were you guys? I was 18, she was 17.

Okay, so that's why she lived at home and her parents were like, absolutely, invite your friend you just met to live in our home. Because I got to be honest, when my girls come home from the TV Guide Award show and they tell me someone's moving in, I'm gonna go, that's not happening.

I think perhaps it is happening, Kristen. Of course.

So yeah, I'll go to Nashville, I guess, and ignore the whole situation.

I mean, when I first met Kristen, there were 7 people living in her home at a minimum.

Yeah, same. And I was just like, do I approach this. I'm like, any of these 7 folks paying rent? I know. No, no, not one of them.

And it paid off because those people are Ryan and Amy and other people.

Exactly, that's right.

Did you feel awkward living in a family's home, or did you drop right in? You're no problem for you. You already know.

I am a person. Can you bring me soup?

Kim Beale, Jess's mom, taught me how to write a check. Oh, because I moved out of the house. So literally, like, taught me how to pump gas. I moved out of the house so young. I went to college for one semester. I'd barely had my, like, driver's license for a year. I was so young. And my parents, to their credit, well, once they knew I was moving in with this, like, TV star's family and my parents met her parents and everything was super sweet and I wasn't going to stay for long. It was just to, like, get me on my feet and get me out here.

How long did you say? 3 years?

7. 7 years. It's coming up on 7. It's coming up on 25. At the end of this month. It was like less than 6 months.

And were you guys just out on the town together?

Always. Oh, that's amazing. We were like putting on wigs and dressing crazy and going to friends' parties at like UCLA. That's so cute. What a picture. The pictures from that time are crazy. Also, when she invited me to Tae Bo, this is so good. I think it's gonna be a Tae Bo class. Like, it's like taking a Pilates class and they're like, this is Joseph Pilates. You're like, no. Right. It was Billy Blanks who taught the class. In the class was Brandy, Sinbad, me, and Jessica Biel. Fuck yeah! Oh my God, I wish there was a picture from that. And it was on Ventura Boulevard.

That's a better class than was at the, um, TV Guide Awards. For sure. Now, another thing I want to say about your career is I think it started with a question I was going to ask. The question: you've toured both as a musician and you've toured as a stand-up. I just want to confirm my hunch, which is, is it easier to to do music?

Oh, by a million miles.

Like, you can even enjoy your free day before you perform that night.

If I was still playing— I'm not doing stand-up as much anymore, hardly ever, and I'm not playing music as much anymore, and it's a little weird. I remember when I was a kid and my aunt was like, I was learning guitar when I was like 18, and she was like, I used to play guitar. And I remember thinking like, you used to? You play guitar, you play guitar. I haven't picked the guitar off the wall. Oh, wow. In, I mean, a long time. My guess is I was, as you've known for 20 years, clawing. My whole career has just been this absolute— I was gonna say grift, but it wasn't. I wasn't pulling one over on anyone. It just was like, "Ahh! I'm touring as a musician. I'm touring as a stand-up. I'm trying to get on TV. I have an agent. My agent dropped me. I'm on American Idol." I'm just like, "What can I do? Because all I wanna do is make art and be a professional personality." So how do I monetize it? "Nobody wants this." And like, I just calmed the fuck down. Even on GLOW, I was like, "Hagagaga. How do I get?

How do I get? What do I get? How, of all the people on this show, can I be the one who pops? There's 15 of us.

How do I maximize this opportunity?" 'Cause it's the last one I'm ever gonna have.

No, no, well, of course. And then, it was for a while, and I lost my health insurance for years after GLOW. And then finally got a weird energy commercial campaign, which was literally California only. Only, which made me got my health insurance back in like 2022 or '23.

Yeah, so what started as a question about touring got sad. You're right. Oh, it got quite good. It makes me think of— I think the first time I ever cried on the show was Gordon Keith. We were interviewing him live in Dallas, and he was telling a story about he was staying in our house. We were out of town, and he just went through my big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, and in the first page are like all these different dates that have been scratched out. I got sober this time, then I got sober again this time. And so what's funny is I look at that page and I'm a little bit like, oh my God, I was such a failure. I just couldn't do it right now. Yeah. And Gordon Keyes is like, I looked at this thing and I was like, dude, this is a guy who won't quit. And I was like, oh, fuck, dude, that really fucked me up because I will never give myself that kind of pat on the back. But yeah, throughout all things, I'm a dude who won't give up.

And there's a date that isn't crossed out. Oh, you know, it's pretty cool.

It's smudged because I did lines of coke off coffee, but it's not crossed out. But I'm looking at this long road you've been on. Now you're touring. And again, I did the same thing where I was just like, dude, I'll do whatever thing's working slightly better than the other things. Like, I write, okay, or I direct, or I do this, or I do stand-up.

I was like, oh, that's what it is now? Okay, I'll sing now.

Yeah. So I look at your thing and I'm like, this fucking bitch wouldn't quit. It's so bad. This bitch wouldn't fucking quit. And that makes me freaking feel so That's something to be more proud of than having succeeded right away.

Yeah, I agree. Oh my God, understatement, not succeeded right away.

Yeah, and it's kind of like a testament to— it is a war of attrition.

Also, most people have moved home by now, and we've talked about this, and I talk about you often in interviews where I talk about how the first time I did your pod, you said a similar thing to me, similar to what your boy said about the crossing the dates There was a turning point for you where when you're 37 and you still haven't gotten the job, and you're in your one-bedroom apartment with your 15-year-old RAV4, no one's high-fiving you for your persistence. No! Yeah, exactly. They feel—

they're worried about you.

They feel bad for you. No one is congratulating you. And then the next year, I get Glow, and then I'm doing all this press, and everyone going like, "Your persistence is so admirable, and good for you." But 6 months later, months prior, it was like, we hanging it up, we getting a job, ready. And you pointed that out to me, and I was like, oh yeah, that's crazy. The other reason, when I talk about it in therapy, I'm like, I might be like, something's broken.

Sure, maybe in a good way, probably in a good and bad way. Uh-huh.

Yeah, we're like, a lot of people just, they're not gonna— I have family members that went on 2 job interviews and it's too much. Yeah, they were told no both times, and they're switching careers now because it's just— yeah, that's not an exaggeration. Yeah. And now they're doing else because the first job didn't work out. And now I am putting a fucking garlic and a cross to that whole career. One rejection? I couldn't count them with a gun to my head. You can't be thousands.

Yeah, you can't survive here with that.

Yes and no, because what I admire about you, and I think it's what I did as well, which is like, I just kept pivoting. Also, you were like, I'd be happy being a singer that tours. You want to invite me to that party? I'm there. 100%. You want to invite me to the acting party? I'm there. 100%. I also think, yes, you shouldn't give up after 2, but I also think a lot of people just aren't willing to keep trying different things. You're like so hell-bent on this one version it has to be.

The other thing is it's impossible to say if you're not getting hired because you're just not good.

It's hard to know. Hard to know? Yeah, it's really hard to know.

How do you discern? And then it's like, well, it is a little psychotic if you're like, okay, you're almost 40 and you still haven't been really hired in any meaningful way. Way. That means with any security, any stability or security. So it's like that same thing happens to people who just don't have the goods. I know, it's very—

it's very tricky.

But with me, I was lucky because I was getting enough validation from big people that were like, we're gonna give you a development deal, we're gonna make you a show. Exactly. And then just the show didn't go. Yeah, I was like, well, somebody thought I was cool enough to like try and make something with. You had bites. It's not like my opinion.

I'm like taking in the feedback of this business and You have the advantage of performing live, which is very encouraging.

That's the ticket too, is when I started really doing stand-up, this was probably a couple years before— well, 5 years before GLOW. That changed my whole life too, because speaking of pivoting, I was no longer waiting for the phone to ring. I'm a joke machine.

Yeah, I'm just gonna go out there and—

Pitching for people. So I'm out, I'm on the town. Managers, comedy people saw me. I went and did Montreal Comedy Festival. You're in action. I'm in action. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the number one piece of advice I give. The pivoting is really good too, but the number one piece of advice I give is like, diversify your bag. Portfolio, bitch. Do not sit there and be like, I'm an actor, I'm waiting. You can't wait for the phone to ring. And if you're an actor, you better start writing and directing and make your own shit, because no one's looking for you, especially now.

There really is no excuse. You can make stuff all day long. You can put it on Instagram, you can put it on YouTube, and we will dismiss you as influencers.

Yes, exactly. Yeah, that's fine.

You're going to have to get used to that. Thicken that skin, because it's happening. Okay, my very last question.

Oh, I think about this Often I mostly think about it when I'm at my men's meeting because there's a bunch of men on different rungs of the ladder, of the success ladder, of the success ladder, the Hollywood success ladder, and the financial ladder. There's many status ladders. And I can see for some of these guys, I can feel that they think their position on that rung is important to me, or that I even evaluate it. But when you're having those feelings, you're certain other people have decided you're not high status enough for them. And just on the other side, I'm lucky enough now to be on the very high rung of that ladder, and I've been on a very low rung of the ladder, and I now realize from the high rung, I don't think about what anybody has accomplished or how much money they have. Like, it's all in our own heads. 100%. So I'm just wondering, have you had any kind of reckoning with that? Because like, you and I have been friends for 18 years. I'm not more friends with you now that you're on Nobody Wants This, and I'm not less friends with you.

It has no impact on— none.

I'm less friends with you because you're busy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the only thing. It's like I'm kind of swamped.

Like, she like can't hang out.

But do you know the thing I'm talking about? And then once you get it, you kind of go like, oh.

I will say what it has afforded me is more of a calm. I'm not so fucking thirsty. I don't have to be funny in all situations.

That's very self-aware of you to say, by the way. I'm impressed by that. Thanks.

I And also, I remember years ago meeting, like, some of my favorite comedians, feeling this need to rise to the occasion. Because I know they're funny, they don't know I'm funny. And there's that thirst of, like, you don't even mean to. And I'm not over there, like, doing a soft shoe, but I'm being, like, real bitty. And you just get to a point in your life and you're like, "Well, it's just nice to—" You know who's a really great inspiration in this way is Sarah Silverman. Have you guys had this genius on? Yeah. Many times? Okay. Well, just something that's amazing about her about her is like she's never been a bitty person. She's one of the best to ever do it, in my opinion. She's absolutely a genius and a trailblazer, and she's so calm. Tig is another example. You realize that the greats are fucking chilling. What are you doing? And then when I'm somewhere now and someone's like, "Bit City," I'm like, "Oh, okay." But I get it. And similar to what you were saying a second ago, it's like they feel insecure, so I don't fault them for that. Like if someone's guesting on Nobody Wants This, and they're doing a lot of bits in the hair and makeup trailer, it's like, "That's me." There's something in it.

I hear you. That's me. Yeah. And I'm not like, okay, try hard. It's like, yeah, you want people to remember you and think you're cool.

And I get that. You have one shot. You keep having this one shot. It's sweet.

And it's like, ah, this industry.

I know it's a nightmare. It's an absolute psychological warfare nightmare. And I think that for me is what— now that I'm here and I'm moderately successful and I feel I'm doing well and I have my health and all the things, I'm just like, oh, I don't— you know what's really interesting? I went to acupuncture. This woman recommended this amazing acupuncturist. She and her daughter, they're this tall. They have black, like, bob hair. Cool. They look like that woman from The Incredibles. Yes, I was just thinking that. They're Korean, and they have thick Russian accents. Oh, wow.

Interesting.

They are fascinating. Makes massive sense. And they are acupuncturists in Silver Lake, the mother-daughter team. Ooh. Okay? And you want to talk about crying. I went in there and the woman was like, the first thing she was asking me about my ailments and I was telling her about the breasts and the ovaries and everything. And she goes, you need to, and she's just going like this, waving her hands wildly. She's like, calm your nervous system in her thick Russian accent. Calm your nervous system. And I was telling her this whole story. Then she gave me a hug. This woman just met me. And she goes, you don't have to entertain anybody.

Oh. Oh, well then I'll have no value.

Truly. I mean, well then what am I, one of those fucking seaweed people that Ursula turns the mermaids into? Big eyes. And I'm just fucking— I was like, what is—

what, what, what's the point?

But I just like— it was—

wow, she saw right through you immediately.

I was probably like, well, I did this and I had to do this and I did the— I did— I had to do the boobs, but I'm going to do the— like, you know how I'm like trying to lighten it for someone else so they can handle it? So she's like, what have you been going through, and I'm doing the song and dance. And she said, you don't have to entertain anybody. Yeah.

That's wonderful.

That's a very sweet way to say it too. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah. Because what if she had been like, just knock off the beads.

Yeah, truly. Enough. Enough, enough, enough, enough.

Knock it all off. Enough. Just so rude.

Stop it. Stop it. Stop shaking. Stop it. Yeah. But it was just so profound. And even though now I'm sitting here being like, so I don't have to do this thing anymore. That was a month ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this acupuncturist I was doing a soft shoe number for. Wow. I just was telling her about my trauma, and so I was trying not to make it heavy. I could just as easily have, like, taken a breath and calmly just given her— she's like, you need to have a new mantra, and it's this, and you have to say it like this. And it's— it sounds so trite. It's, whatever, I don't care, in that, like, breathy. Also, Joe and I were talking about, like, when the student is ready, the teacher appears. Like, how many times in my life people have been like, you want to calm the fuck down? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I told you to relax.

Yeah.

But this time you could hear it. I just was like, oh yeah, I need to breathe, bro. Yeah. On one. Yeah. That's great. Well, Jackie, we love you guys.

I love you.

We love you so much.

Okay, everybody, the 4 reasons that you should be getting genetic tested: rare cancer, repetitive multiple cancers, young cancer, or if you're an Ashkenazi Jew, get your test at learnmyrisk.com.

I'll probably do it anyway. I'm not gonna lie. You should. I'm just— you should.

Why not? Why? It's so easy to spit in a tube. Exactly. I spit in them all day long.

Just— you really do. You love— he loves his dipping. Yeah. You and Tim. I love you. I love you guys. This was so special. Thank you for having me. Happy to have you. All right, we'll do it again soon. Bye everyone.

I love you.

See you on season 3. Wow. Oh yeah, I'm on Nobody Wants This.

Just a quick reminder that as part of our summer break, here's a rerun of one of our favorite Truth Fact Checks.

I have an update.

You have an update? Mm-hmm. What is it?

I was right again. Oh, wow. Great. Yeah.

It feels so good to be right, doesn't it?

Yes. So remember when I said you were right about my period and I gave you a whole thing about that?

You were wrong. Oh, okay. So it's a bad day for me and a good day for you.

And I was right the whole time. Yeah. The day I said is the day, which is today. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you.

It came. So now we have— we still don't know why you had your clothes on backwards. Yeah, that's still a big question.

The original mystery remains.

My mom liked being right so much she made up a song, and you'd hear her singing it occasionally throughout the house, and it was, "It's such a good feeling to know that you're right." Wow. Yeah, there were more lyrics, but that's the— I guess the chorus, what I remember.

Do you think you really, like, because you grew up hearing that, you really embodied it? I just know it feels great to be right. Yeah, but it's like, do you know because of the song wrong, or do you know?

I heard the funniest thing once, um, from an editor, uh, a film editor who had cut some— a couple movies from an actor. And he said, yeah, you know, his thing is, if he, if he has his way, his character's arc is that he'll find out he was right the whole time instead of learning a lesson. Yeah, his lesson will be he'll found out— he'll find out he was right the entire time.

That's really Funny, it does feel good to be right.

It does.

It's just important not to gloat, you know. I guess that's all you can do.

And I guess it's good to tell other people when they're right, like I do. Yeah, even though you were wrong.

I was wrong. Yeah, you know, this was just a topic last night in a, uh, in a 12-step meeting, which was in the book. It said something about big shotism, you know, like What's it say? You know, just like that we have to avoid big shotism. Don't be a big shot. Yeah, yeah. And I was thinking maybe the best you can do is you just don't say anything. Like, you're going to think things. I don't know that you can control whether you think something. It's just like a thought pops into your head. And really, again, the space between your thought and your actions, therein lies peace, or whatever the saying is. Freedom. Therein lies freedom. Um, so I was thinking like, no, I still have some pretty grotesque thoughts. I've just gotten good at not saying them. And that's— I feel like that's all I can— I'm capable of, and I'm proud enough of that.

Yeah, I mean, yes, I don't think we can control our thoughts, but we can control everything else after the thought. So we must—

yeah, increase our bust. We must, we must.

Um, we don't have to do that. Everyone's boobs are great.

I'm trying to increase my bust pretty regularly. I'm doing bench press which is for the pectorals.

Yeah, but you don't have to increase— no one has to increase their bust. No, it's not a must.

No, it's a choice. But it is from Grease.

Oh, no wonder I hate it.

Oh yeah, that's right, you don't like Grease.

I don't know if I'm allowed to say that.

The only person in the world that does, because I don't like musicals, and even I'm like, it's, it's fun. Really? Yeah. We made out under the dock. Oh, please stop. Is that song in particular one you hate?

I don't like any of the songs. You know, my brother, when he was just a young baby boy. Yeah, he would be crying in the car because he was a baby, and my mom put the Grease soundtrack on and— to soothe him. Yes, and it worked. And especially this one song. And so we— I had to listen to it on repeat. Okay, to keep him from crying.

I got it. You've associated it with your brother's annoying behavior.

It's separate. No, I already hated it. What's going on? I already hate it. You know what's so funny? When you think back, like, my brother also was obsessed with the Backstreet Boys. Interesting. As a little boy. Oh, that's cute. It's so cute. And I'm sure I was mean to him about it.

Of course you were. Does he want to go to the Sphere?

Aren't they— I exactly— I thought about it recently. I was like, oh, he should go to that. That's his favorite band. Yeah, when he was 6.

I still like everything I liked when I was 6 musically. Like, I never came to hate anything that I once loved musically, right?

I— have you? I'm trying to think. I mean, I just liked so much top 40 that I'm sure— I mean, it's hard to say now. If I heard it, I'm associating it with that time, so of course I'll like it. Yeah, but, but do I like it? Probably not.

Well, this brings up an update for me. So my deepest superstition, as you already know— do you know what's my deepest superstition? Uh, putting hats on. There's one worse than that where it really is like, it's— it— oh, I'm like, oh my God.

Can you give me a hint? Because I do want to Guess it's musical. Oh, you have to listen to a song. There's a certain song you have to listen to twice.

If I hear it accidentally, I have to— And which one is it again? Stepdad used to play this song like at full volume, and it was like, again, it's associated with like maximum chaos. My brother and him fighting, and that song was always playing, and I just got it in my head that like if I heard it once, I had bad luck, and then I had to hear it again. But I was not allowed to touch his record player, and he had the album, so I had no control over. The song is Jump by Van Halen. Wow, Jump. Yeah. Um, so I was in Nashville, and because I'm in my old cars, uh, and they don't have any way to play my phone through some of them, I was listening to the radio a ton. Oh. So I was driving down the road by myself, and all of a sudden Jump came on. Did you slam? My first thought— well, my trick is if I hear it on the radio— I know this is a total workaround that everyone will call bullshit on— but I'll turn the channel to another channel, then turn it back, and I try to count I'll bump that as a second.

Oh, which is— we both know that's bullshit, but that's the best I can do.

Okay, listen, there's no rules because it's all made up.

It's all arsenine. Yes, yes. I don't know why, but this song came on when I was in Nashville, and I go, we're done with this. Good job. We're done with this. Yeah, I know. I'm not gonna try to listen to it twice. And then I go, and in fact, I'm adding it to my liked songs. So now it is in my liked songs, which I listen to all the time, and it comes on once, and I'm like, it's a great fucking song, and you're gonna get over it, and you're gonna love immersion therapy. You're gonna enjoy it. So I've been listening to it one time randomly a lot.

And does your nose slowly bleed when you listen only once?

No, my eyes tear black like Wednesday's.

And have you had any bad luck since you started this? No, nothing discernible.

No, in fact, I feel like I'm on good luck. Uh, I'm on a good luck wave. Um, I, um, I've discovered this documentary, the Cowboys documentary, not the cheerleading one, which is also great, right? But a history of Jerry Jones buying the Cowboys. Are you watching it, Rob? I am not, buddy. I don't— I haven't liked a doc this much since The Last Dance.

You don't— what? You just asked Rob because he's a boy? Uh-huh.

Because he loves football. Because that makes sense, right? Not because there was a doc on the row. I go, Monica, have you doc on the row.

But I love Last Dance, you know that.

I know you do.

Have you seen it, Monica? Can you, can you admit that you could have just asked everyone?

I could have, but I would— if there was a row documentary, I wouldn't ask Rob.

Rob does like football, that's fine. He loves— also, he might love to watch the doc on the row. It's probably great. It's probably gonna be great. I'm gonna make it and produce it.

I had a really strong feeling you hadn't watched the Cowboys Cowboys documentary. Unfortunately, I was correct. The America's Team: The Gambler and His Cowboys. The Gambler and His Cowboys. Okay, it's awesome. I do think you should watch it. This was all to encourage you to watch it. I'm not leaving you out. I just wanted to see if I could get a two-way encouragement to you to give it a shot. Yeah, because you do not need—

but you know I don't like peer pressure.

Okay, so you don't want me—

okay, so just, this is the regular—

you wanted me to ask if watched it and then no, not recommend it.

That's not what happened. I, I just didn't want you to specifically ask the male in the room about a doc, the football, when you just equated it to Last Dance. So we know it's not just for— I don't like basketball.

You don't like basketball? Yeah. And I—

and The Last Dance is basically my favorite show that's ever happened.

I know. That's a great one.

Anywho, okay, so you want me to watch it, or you think everyone should watch it?

It's incredible. Okay. What characters. Jerry Jones is such a character. Can I just give you a taste of what happens? So he is a very young guy, and he is, uh, I guess a wildcat they call him. Maybe that's not the right term, but he is buying oil fields hoping to strike oil. Okay. He is so overleveraged. He's like $50 million $100 million in debt at a— as a young man, and he just keeps gambling. And when he describes the oil well he hits, the noises it was making, and when it just started gushing, and then that one oil well made him $100 million. Wow. And then he immediately took that money and bought the Cowboys. Wow. And the Cowboys are the most valuable sports team in the world. Yes, I knew that. Every sport part included. Yeah, like a $13 billion value of that team.

Wild.

Yeah. And then he, he grabs this coach out of college, Jimmy Johnson, and it's just a great— you think it's because he has two J's? It makes it really great that the alliteration's there.

But like, he has two J's, so he's like, the only people I can hire— it's like a small pool because it has to have two J's.

They were on a championship college football team together, and they knew each other forever. And did you ever watch the U? The—

uh, yeah, the 30 for 30. You did?

Yes. So he was the coach that was like, yeah, you guys— did you? I did not, no. Well, well, well, look at that. If you remember, um, Jimmy Johnson was the one that was like, yeah, be Black, don't listen to this shit that you're a thug, right? He's cool. Yeah, he is cool. Yeah. And those two, the owner and him, you know, stay on some tough to share glory. It's tough to share glory. It's tough to share glory. I'm not done with it and I don't ever want it to end. That's fine.

I love when there's a show like that. Yeah, that was too much for me. The show Too Much on Netflix.

Oh, I did start it per your recommendation and I love it, right? It's great. It's so— it does give me anxiety. Okay, tell me. Because she's so fragile, like anything could— she could unravel over almost anything. And so it does trigger my like, oh my God, if I was around someone who was always like, I don't know if they're gonna unravel at this moment, is very stressful to me.

I don't know how far you're in, but it's, it's interesting the way they—

I love him. He's so hot. He's so hot.

So hot. I listened to this one thing on it that I thought broke it down really, really well where they were like, this show does such a good job of highlighting the highest or like the most manic parts of a relationship, the beginning and the end. Because she has this other relationship she has come out of and it's very tumultuous.

She's making some really wild— Isn't she so funny? Oh, she's incredible. Oh my God. She's incredible. And Lena's great.

She's on.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's a really good show.

Really great cast, really great station.

Well, that's when I was rewatching Girls and I was seeing all these people that she— that they cast before. I was like, God, yeah, some people just really have that knack. I have an eye. Like Mike White. Yeah, Mike White. Mike White had Will Sharpe and Megan Fahey on the same season of White Lotus.

Which means he's a genius. He is a genius.

Anyway, Cowboys, you love them. I'm gonna watch.

It's so good. It's so good.

Now I am coming off of some good luck as well. You are? Okay. Because it's birthday luck still. Yeah, I still have birthday luck. And, um, people who listen will remember that at the Bowery I got a tassel, 11:11, the room, this is incredible. Yep. Wow, big story. Tassel. For my birthday, we went to the Four Seasons and went to the pool. I had to get a room for that. Yeah. So guess what my room number was? You already know. 1111. Um, 1211. 1111 again.

Oh my gosh, this should be your first tattoo. I actually thought that.

I bet you did.

I already thought it, which is why I can't get it, because I guess it's a cliché. Do a lot of people have 1111? No, but it's like, if you thought Scott and I thought—

we all thought it. Or it's just so on brand for you. I don't know.

I don't know. I'm not gonna get any tattoos, but if I was, um, I think it might be that.

You could get XIXI. It wouldn't be so obvious.

I know, but you know, I'm not really into Roman numerals.

That's pretty— that's pretty basic stuff. It's not even—

it's just like, it's basic. It's not for me. It is basic.

Oh my God, wait, is this real? I think so. Okay, so for the listener, uh, Rob just put up a photo of Jennifer Aniston, Jen Aniston, and, and seemingly she has 11:11 tattooed on her wrist.

Oh, or maybe— oh my God, oh my God.

Yeah, now you can't, because if she— if we ever interview her and you have the same tattoo as her.

But now I have to. Oh, that tipped it. It was always meant to be. Yeah. My God, should I get one? Like, because I— since I don't really want anyone to see, you think I could just get a really tiny one in between my, um, big toe and my second toe?

Toes are rough. The skin rubs off a lot. Uh, fingers, digits, they can be tough. Like, my bell's not holding up like the rest of my tattoos. What happened?

I've never gotten one in here. It's hard.

Yeah, I guess that skin's, uh, it's hard for the tattoo to stay there for whatever reason. I don't know why. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. Do you want to hear my maximum Sim event of my entire life, other than when I get the song you were— you had made up, Xanthan Gum. Yeah, that still is like, that can't have happened. I know. Um, Xanthan Gum. Okay, so, um, I wrote this script called Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money, right? And it was about my last week of drinking in Kauai. Uh-huh. And while I was writing it, I'm just like swimming in the Warren Zevon song Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money. Do you know that song? No. Okay, I'll cover my face and say it to you. I took home the barmaid, ding ding ding ding, like I always do. How was I to know she was with the Russian dude? Hey! And it's send lawyers, guns, and money. The shit has hit the fan. So as I'm writing this script, and it's about my last week in Hawaii of using, I decide I should learn to play that guitar. I should learn to play play that song on the guitar.

So I go on YouTube and I'm trying to find some footage of him playing that so I can look at the chords. And I find this video of him in a small venue and he's talking to the crowd and he says, I wrote this song after— oh, I gotta add, my last week of, of, of drinking in, in Hawaii was I was taking a vacation between movies because I was exhausted and I needed a break. Okay. It didn't turn out to be a replenishing trip, as you can imagine. Yeah. So he goes, um, yeah, I wrote this song after a couple years of hard work, and I decided to take an isle— a trip down to the islands of Hawaii. And after a week of improbable danger and something, I decided I shouldn't take vacations. I took home the barmaid. And I was sitting at the computer going, what the fuck? This song is about his week in Hawaii?

Wild.

I thought it was gonna evaporate into the clouds at that point.

My dad was helping your Sim even before we met.

Well, it's all been orchestrated from 1987. You don't even— we don't even know if I existed before 1987.

Exactly. Yeah, because even for you, that was the best year of your life. Yeah, so like, yeah, it's all really stinks.

It's stinky. It's fucking stanky.

Really stinky in here. Anyway, so birthday luck is continuing. Yeah. Birthday weekend was really nice. Ended up at the— oh, I wanted to check something. Maybe another Sim moment. Okay. Um, can I look up when War Dogs was? I'm gonna— I already did. 2016. Dang. Oops, one year off. Okay, because in 2016 It was my birthday. Doo doo doo doo. And Kristen planned— You were turning 29?

I guess.

No. Yeah. Yeah, I was turning 29. And Kristen planned an escape room party for me and her and you and a group of people. It was really exciting. We get there, go inside, we're ready to escape. And she had accidentally booked it for the wrong day. Which was fine. It was like, what are we gonna do now?

Textbook Belle.

It is.

This is kind of her move. It happens. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, you know, it's like, what are we gonna do now? And we pivoted plans. It was your idea. You said, let's go to the Chateau and have some dinner, have bolognese. I had never been there and I've been trying to go for a long time. Sure. And it was really exciting and fun. Then we saw War Dogs. That was like a big birthday, I remember. And it was a good pivot. And the bolognese was so good and it was It was very exciting. And on my birthday, it was a lazy day. I stayed at the Four Seasons. So then I like woke up and I was just lazy. Callie told me I should order a milkshake in my robe. Oh wow. Room service. I didn't. Oh, okay. But I woke up.

That's a rough way to start your day.

That's why I was like, it's too early.

It'll be downhill from there.

But it also sounded nice. But yeah. Yeah. Anyway, and then I went to Sunset Tower. Oh, I went shopping. I got myself a cute outfit. Outfit, and I went to Sunset Tower, and then Sunset Tower turned into the chateau where I had bolognese for dinner. You did? I did. And I thought— Did you see anyone? No, I don't think so. I don't really— You don't see very well. Yeah, I don't have good eyes. And I thought it was its 10-year anniversary, but I guess it was its 9-year anniversary. Right. So that is not as sim as I wanted it to be.

Okay. It's still great. Still great. Great day. That's a fun tradition.

It is a fun tradition. Maybe I'll— maybe that'll be a new tradition.

Yeah, yeah. You want to ask Monica out?

Oh yeah, speaking of this. Okay, I probably shouldn't do it like this with this like long— this like long face.

No, it sounds like bad news is coming.

It's not bad news, great news. It's great news for the world. Travis and Taylor are engaged. Oh right, yeah. And everyone is happy, and I'm so happy. She seems so happy. It makes me feel really, um, fuzzy. Like, she got it all and she deserves it, and I, I love it, and it's hopeful. Yeah, great. You know, Lincoln said that they like announced it— they either announced it or like a teacher— the teacher came like into the classroom and told everyone.

Oh really? Yeah, it's an all-girls school. All-girls school!

This is incredible. Anyway, Um, but I, I forgot that the whole reason they're together is their podcast, New Heights. He— so he went to the concert to try to give her some bracelets, number. Yes. And but he didn't. He couldn't see her. So then on the show, his brother asked, how was the concert? He said, well, I'm kind of butthurt because I really wanted to talk to her, but she doesn't talk to people before or after shows, and I wanted to give her my bracelet. It has my phone number on it. Yeah. Okay, that's cute.

Oh, did he put his phone number in the bracelet? Yeah. Oh, that's adorable. It's adorable.

Yeah, yeah. And look, that got him a wife. Yeah.

And here we are, one of the more coveted wives of all time.

Yeah. Yes. And here we are, almost 8 years in, uh, to this show, and I have zero husbands. Yeah, but, but But, but, okay, so what she did is she heard that.

Yeah. And then she reached out and he said yes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there's a lot of people in the comments that are saying you're hot, they want to meet you. But see, you— go ahead— you have said many times you don't want to date a listener unless they're Taylor Swift.

Okay, okay. Also, she wasn't a listener, just just got back to her. Okay, okay. So who— like, I mean, I could on here. You know what's unfair? I, I would look crazy and he didn't look crazy, and that's— well, he had a lot going for him.

No, it's not going for me.

What do you mean?

No, it's, it's, it's inherently adorable that this enormous football player, this gruff bone crusher made a Taylor Swift bracelet. Yeah. So you have to do something as completely out of the box as that. That's what made that so adorable. It's like, oh wow, that guy made a bracelet with his number for Taylor Swift. Really cute. There's a lot to the product, you know. It's not—

I'm supposed to do like go beat someone up? Well, we gotta have scars on and like talk about that.

Yeah, I mean, um, get good with a butterfly knife and pull a butterfly. Like, you gotta, you gotta put the same the effort he put into it.

It takes like 4 minutes to make a friendship bracelet.

You have to start by pursuing someone, which he did. Yeah. So yeah, you're gonna have to pursue like he did, and then he got the woman of his dreams.

Okay, you're— yes, that is all true. This is all correct. But— and I'm kidding. And I do think— maybe I'm wrong, but I want to be honest.

Feeling to know that you're right.

I want to be honest. I think if a girl did that, did that exact thing he did, yeah, went to Chris Martin's show, wanted to give him a thing, didn't get to, went on her podcast and was like, ugh, like, I didn't get to give him my phone number, I'm sad about that. I don't think people would think it was as cute as what happened.

Again, you're trying to frame it as female male.

I'm just asking. I'm not trying to say it's sexist, but I'm really trying, like, I'm being honest.

If a The world did that. Yeah. Yeah. So you are framing it as there's a double standard between men and women.

But I'm not trying to make it— I'm just being honest about the fact that I think I even would be like, that's not cute.

If he had gone to a Shania Twain concert hoping to bump into her and give her a number, that's not what it was. You're really ignoring the fact that it was a huge NFL player that was a Swiftie. That's such a unique thing. That's what's happening there. It's not that he's male or female, it's that here, here's the last guy you expect to be a Swifty is a Swifty. Well then, okay, so then that's— so if you're like, you going and find some grungy punk rock dude and you come and bring them flowers or something, you know, that's, that's just not my type, right? But that's why that's not a story. But it's not because you're a woman, it's because it's not this crazy first time you've ever heard this.

Yeah, was he a Swiftie or was he just wanting to date her?

I think he's a Swiftie. Well, now he knows to make the bracelet.

Now he's a Swiftie.

I bet he's a lot of— Andrew Schultz is a huge Swiftie. I know.

So then if a lot of people are Swifties, then why would it be mostly women are Swifties?

I've been to a show, it's 90+ female. Um, yeah, I guess that might be different.

It's very female. Okay, well, whatever. I guess this is getting twisted.

So if you were like— if there was like some punk band that only dudes liked— Megadeth. Ew.

See this? I don't even know what that is, but I'm never going to date a death guy. Pro death? Not even pro.

We're trying to make this apples to apples, so you would have to have entered into the most masculine scene, and people would go like, oh my God, this cute little girl, okay, likes these bad That guy kind of looks like you on the right. Oh boy, that's not flattering. No, different hair.

What do you mean? He's not—

he's not unattractive. That's a story. That, that's my point, is you showing up at that show— is you showing up at a Slayer show and you're in love with the drummer is hilarious. This is them now, so they're maybe a little older for— uh, you know, yeah, you got to find the equivalent of Megadeth or Metallica of this era. And people go like, oh, that super cute liberal little podcast host loved that crazy maniac rocker.

That's a story. But I'm going to push on back on that. Like, it's not— it's not crazy for any man to like Taylor Swift. She's a— she's a very cute blonde pretty girl with a, with a talent.

I think it's crazy, and the, and the reaction would substantiate that, that a, that one of the most gruesome NFL players was a Swiftie. That is, that's why it was so contagious.

Versus wanted to, to go on a date with her.

Yeah, I'm saying Swiftie. Yeah, when I heard it is like, this guy knows about the bracelets, he made her a bracelet, he's a Swiftie. Okay, can we—

can't you're You're saying it so like, you know, 100%, and we don't, because he went there. He said he went there because he was a Swiftie.

He's in love with her. He wanted to give her a number.

He, he, he wanted— yeah, he wanted to give her— you're saying he just wanted to fuck her?

No, I'm not saying that.

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying he liked her. Like, he was like, I want to date that girl. That girl seems awesome. She's pretty, she's talented, she's cool. I want to date her. Like, I think a lot of men think about Taylor. I will say, and I don't know about the Megadeth community, but my guess is, um, great backstory.

Dave Mustaine was in Metallica and left. He got kicked out of the band and then started that band, which became their big rival. Oh, right, Rob? Is that— yeah, he's in the doc talking about how it haunted him, even though he sold 15 million records still. Oh wow.

Still thought about getting kicked out. Yeah. Yeah, well, um, I'm sure a lot of women want to date and marry them. Mm-hmm. Marrying Megadeth, I'm gonna just say as a whole, is, um, a real choice.

Like, yeah, you don't want to.

And I, I don't know, I've never met them, so maybe I'd love them.

They're also way older. Okay, I don't care. Again, I'm saying the equivalent of Megadeth.

I know, but I'm just saying, I think that's like a real choice. And, um, I think dating Taylor is, is like dating, um, Bradley, or like Timmy, or like someone huge in the popular zeitgeist, not niche. Okay. Uh, they're enormous.

They sold 50 million. Okay, great. They're not— Metallica is not niche at all. Metallica. Yeah, yeah.

But no, still niche to date.

What I think— we have a different opinion. I think what was charming about the entire Travis Taylor story is that this big NFL player was a sweetie at heart because he was a Swiftie.

He's a sweetie.

And I think an equally big story would be that this sweetie liberal little girl is into this crazy off-the-chain band. That's the story that I'm seeing. Other people would also find I find that charming. And the members would be the guys— the women that came to shows, I've been to these shows, the ones that came that were attracted to Megadeth, they looked like they were in Megadeth. Yeah, exactly. You don't. If you showed up in the row with flowers, that's a story.

Yeah, but I just—

and no one, like, no one thinks you're crazy. They'd be so charmed by how unexpected this obsession is of yours, right?

I guess you're right, there's element of unexpected. I'm just— the problem is I'm not unexpected.

Yes, you are, in areas that you don't have any interest in. What do you mean?

You don't like Metallica. That's what I'm saying, that's expected. I'm saying I'm not— I'm saying the problem is I'm not unexpected. The things I like are expected, right? Yeah. So this is the problem, is my point. Yeah, you'd have to— I'm not gonna be able to, because you're gonna give it—

you're gonna give flowers to the same guy every girl likes already.

Should I say it that it's Josh O'Connor?

Say it.

I don't know why we're holding back. He's dating someone.

He's not always gonna be dating someone.

Maybe he isn't. I, I wish them well if that's true. Josh O'Connor is extremely attractive. Yeah. And I find him very cute and endearing and fashion. Yeah. And he is exactly expected for who I would like. That's right. So it's not gonna come as a shock. Yeah. But I guess I'm calling it in, but I'm not because that's actually rude because he's dating someone. Like if you tried to date Ben Shapiro— Dax, I'm saying if you tried to date Ben Shapiro, you're putting me in a tough situation.

He would absolutely notice that happen. He'd be like, you're kidding me, she, she wrote me a letter and likes me? Of another right-wing per— it wouldn't break through the clutter.

Yeah, that's fine. I'm not— I can't go against my values. I don't think Travis went against his values, and I don't think I think even me, it wouldn't be going against my values for Megadeth either, because I don't know— well, unless I— again, I'm not really pro-death, so maybe it is against my values.

But I think about it a lot, and so do they, so that's a good match made in heaven. Um, they're just more mega of what you already are.

That wouldn't be a good match. I need someone to, to— you need someone for the death talk, you know?

That's true, that's true. Should we do some facts? Sure, you should date the singer of Ghost. That's, that's some equivalent. Or if Monica hit on one of them. Oh, I was gonna say Gwar. Gwar. Like if Monica tried to date one of the Gwar guys. I think they're older. Show a picture of Gwar. I know they're too old, but that guy doesn't look terribly young either.

Creeps, Rob.

Where do you see Gwar? Yeah, I gotta get a good one. Truly, you'd stop the whole show if you got up up on stage during GWAR and presented one of them with like an ax, like a custom engraved ax.

Oh my God, I'm gonna have nightmares about that, people.

That would make national news. Oh my God, I—

take that down. That is truly scary.

They like shoot blood on their guitars. Penis. Oh yeah, they have like— here, wait, I got one more. Spikes Show the whole band. Wait, that one's a little intense. This guy, you— his penis is out. Oh, he's got several penises.

Penis is out. He's got several.

I mean, it's not, not his real penis. No, they're prosthetics. They shoot like blood. Yeah, and he's got two of them. You guys. Oh, there's the whole gang.

This is so unfair.

I have to date Gwar? No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying you have to date Gwar. I'm saying if you want it to be the the same story, but it's so— it's got to be that crazy where people go like, I can't believe Monica likes Gore.

I don't think it's going to work out with me and Gore.

Oh, let's put it another way. Now he's turned a corner, but there was a period where Marilyn Manson could have been the thing, because he— right after Bowling for Columbine, and all we really knew was like, wow, this guy's way fucking smarter and more thoughtful than we knew. And you were super into it, and you came this little good girl from a podcast and you approached him, good girl, it would, it would, he, it would catch his attention.

I am not interested in people who like to scare other people, okay?

Yeah, so it's not gonna happen anyway. Um, Gwar, call me, I guess. Hit me on Instagram, Gwar.

Okay, so he's— he has nasal polyps, unfortunately.

Jason? Yeah. That sounds rough.

Nasal polyps are soft, painless, non-cancerous growth that develop in the lining of the nose or sinuses. They are often associated with chronic inflammation and can cause nasal congestion, a runny nose, and impaired sense of smell.

Do you think I have nasal polyps? Um, I thought I had allergies, but maybe I have some. I doubt I have polyps because I get the screen time the, uh, the butt exam colonoscopy, and they've never found a polyp. So I don't think I'm polyp prone.

Are they looking in your nose?

No, but I'm, I'm thinking if you're a palpy person, you're a palpy person.

I don't want to make that connection.

Everyone get a colonoscopy. Um, wow, those are all my symptoms.

No, you have a— you can smell things.

I don't know, remember I smelled your shirt the other day and I couldn't smell anything?

No, you walked in, you were like, something smells funny that no one else smelled. And then I assumed it was my ventricle. Maybe I was smelling my polyps.

Maybe they smell musty.

Well, that's possible. While anyone can get them, they are more common in adults, particularly those with conditions like asthma or allergies. Treatment options range from medications to surgery, depending on the size and severity of the polyps. So he want— he needs surgery, but he doesn't want to get it. Scary. Very scary.

And when you're— that's your career. I know. Getting in there and messing around. Monkeying around.

Although, you know what's funny, speaking of surgeries and people getting plastic surgery, yeah, you know, it is like people are really willy-nilly with their, their face, and their face is what got them there in the first place.

The moneymaker. Yeah, it's tricky. I think facelifts have evolved. I think they too have like gone through the same radical progress all medicine has. I think they're different than in the '70s when Burt Reynolds was getting them, you know?

Yeah, more people are getting them.

That's— I think that they're different now too. I think there's like different versions that you can get that aren't just like, you know, the Burt Reynolds kind.

I don't know, I think it's still like— it's still an intense surgery, I think. But yeah, like, you got to be careful.

Yeah, I keep hearing they're very common.

Are you hearing a lot of people apparently— yes, apparently have them. I— Have you had one?

No.

Okay. No. But then—

I would love one, but when could I do it? When would I be able to recover? We're on camera every day of the year.

Yeah. I don't think you should get it. I'm not good looking enough.

That's not my brand. If I was like a pretty boy or gorgeous, I'd have to. That's my thing. Well, no. And I'm just kind of like— Someone wrote in a comment— Oh, because I talked to camera to explain why the episode wasn't up. And a guy wrote, your face face looks like a scrotum.

Okay, but Dax, that's also because—

is that accurate?

No, it's not. But I did watch the video and I was like, why is he holding it like that?

You thought it looked like a scrotum?

I did not think that, but I did think, um, he, he is putting zero effort into like making himself look how he actually looks. Like, it was like held at kind of a weird angle. You know why? And then you're like rubbing your eyes. Yeah, you know why? Why?

Going to the toilet? A, I was on the couch and I'm like, I gotta address this. It's so frustrating that people think we just didn't put an episode out. Right. And then I'm in my house and my kids are running around and like, I'm not trying to show too much of my internal personal space. So I'm like trying to find an angle where no kids are running by. Yeah. You know? And so I think it was a function over fashion. I know. I understand. Decision.

I understand.

But the problem's been fixed and it's down now anyway.

The episode— oh, it's— you took the—

yeah, because it no longer was relevant.

Oh wow. Well then no one can see what we're talking about.

You were a little disappointed with the angle. Well, I was like, he's really gotten reckless.

I wish he could have talked to me about this before he did it. And then also like we could have held the camera a little different or something.

Anyway, um, because people find everything— like what's funny is so many— I kept seeing in the comments like, yeah, shut the door, the AC's on. And then I immediately get defensive and I'm like, the door was open? They think that we had the door open, the AC was on? No, they're talking about a little piece of paper that says on the door, shut the door, the AC's on, that they're reading backwards. That's not lit. Oh wow. I had to dig in this video to see what the hell they were talking about. Oh wow. And that's what it was. That's why, like, I had to hold it.

We're just, you know, you should have just come in here and done it. This space is already exposed. Like, so it feels very formal. You You know, just like maybe check in with me. I have a lot of— you have a lot of thoughts about it. I have a lot of experience in, um, PR. Okay, Broken Bow Records. We said he joined in 2003. 2003. 2003. 2005. 2005, according to the internet. Okay. Did Waylon Jennings have a history of cheating? Yes, he had a reputation for infidelity during his marriage to Jess Jesse Colter. While they were a couple known for their strong partnership and love both in life and music, Jennings also struggled with substance abuse and infidelity, which was openly discussed in Jesse Colter's autobiography. Oh, I should read that. Yeah, you should. Um, okay, the Vegas shooting— I was really grateful that he talked about it. Me too, because that's a really vulnerable, hard thing to talk about. Yeah, and I was happy that he did, impressed that he did. Yeah, it was in 2017. It was really bad. Deadliest mass shooting, uh, by a lone gunman in American history. Horrendous. Horrendous. Um, and I can't imagine being at the show.

Yeah, being the person that has all these people here.

You know, that happened at our Alive event.

The guilt I'd have over Oh my God. Um, but then we talked about SNL, him doing SNL, and then he was saying that he wrote his own. Like, he was like, I'm not having anyone write anything for me for that. Um, so he wrote with his people, I guess. And he said this: I'm Jason Aldean. This week we witnessed one of the worst tragedies in American history. Like everyone, I'm struggling to understand what happened that night, how to pick up the pieces and start to heal. So many people are hurting. There are children, parents, brothers, sisters, friends, and they are all part of our family. So I wanna say to them, we hurt for you and we hurt with you. You can be sure that we are going to walk through these tough times together every step of the way, because when America's at its best, our bond and our spirit are unbreakable. And then he played Tom Petty's I Won't Back Down because he had just passed away. Yeah. A lot happened. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, oh, and it was Gal Gadot was the host. Mhm. Um, okay, well, that is that.

That's it. All right, love you, love you.