Transcript of E1028 – Going Deeper with Sparkle Megan and Jordan: Love Is Blind Unpacked

You're crazy.

So is it still Sparkle, Megan, or are we still going by Sparkle Megan?

I don't think that name will ever live me down, unfortunately.

I was going to say it's crazy, the behind the scenes is that there was just another Megan and you needed to figure out a way to differentiate yourself. Then now it's like the media is like, Oh, Sparkle Megan, this, that, this.

Well, Sparkle Megan, Jordan, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having us.

We're excited to have you.

Very excited to have you both. Thanks for both coming. Sometimes when we love to do the he said she said versions, they're not on speaking terms. But did you guys take the same flight? Same flight. We sure did. Okay. So you guys are clearly like- Did you trade someone to zit beside each other? Yeah, did you sit next to each other? No. Okay, you did not.

Different rows. All But we're like, Man, the speculation is going to be flying.

Any pregame huddles prior to coming here?

I mean, a little bit. We talked about just we... I think we're like, What are the only couples not mudslinging? We really wanted to keep it that way. I think we still really just respect each other so much.

Okay.

Yeah, that's who we are naturally. Yeah.

Well, the next 90 minutes is...

Mudsling?

If you want to get it off your chest, it is a safe zone.

Game Come on.

We will... Let's just forget it happened. It's like what stays in this room. What happens on the Vial Falls, we'll just leave it on the Vial Falls.

It's like Vegas, you know?

No, it's kidding. How did both people like you end up on Love is Blind? What was your familiarity with the show prior to coming on?

I applied. I had just gotten out of a relationship, and that was like, something is not working. I've given everything else to try, so I figured it was a long shot, but here we are. Okay.

Were you a fan? Had you watched? I'm sure you knew what you were getting yourself into.

I had seen some. Yeah, I wouldn't say I was a fan. I'm not a huge reality TV person, but I'd seen it.

Yeah, I found out about it on this dinner date, and it was the first 20 minutes of the date she brought up, and I was like, Oh, the date's going so well. Then I'd never heard of the show or anything, and I told my friends about it, and they're like, You really got to apply. Then that just sat in the back of my mind for a couple of weeks because it was just a long process. I'm just so selfish with my time. Then I applied, and next thing you know, I'm there.

Wait, your dinner date?

Who was a fan of the show? Yeah, first dinner date, and she said something. She's like, Me and my friends are going to apply, blah, blah, blah. I was like, Oh, that's weird. But all right.

So I'm not the one.

Then she told you about it. You were like, My Tinder date.

I'm guessing she wasn't casted.

No. What a win for you. Yeah, I don't know.

She seemed super nice, but just not my person.

Imagine the devastation, her turning on the season.

That is hilarious. Have you talked to her? No. I would be so curious.

No, I have not.

What was your guys' experience in the pod? It's always fascinating to hear people's perspectives. We've talked to a few other people. I think it's a TV show. They have a limited time, but it's always fascinating to sometimes learn that there were other relationships or other conversations. Sometimes you get to see that, Ali and Anton. Anton was like, Yeah, I had a whole relationship up until proposal day, and it seems like him and Ali fell in love on the first day. Well, I know you guys, there were some love triangles, but remind us about your pot experiences and what that was like.

It was funny. We ranked each other 12 on the first day. Both. Yeah. So the first day you date... Close to last. Yeah. Both 12. The first day you date, there was 16 guys and 16 girls this season. So first day you everybody for 10 minutes, and then at the end of the day, rank everybody. I think Jordan came in hot saying, Hey, I'm a dad. I had a vasectomy. I was like, Whoa. That was interesting. And then I think my Sparkle Meg thing turned him off.

It did, which I appreciate it.

I said, not me.

Totally fair. But yeah, I think just the way the algorithm shakes out, we just kept getting match. Then as each day went on, we were like, Hey, I think there's something here.

What about that? I'm curious. For both of you, taught you about how you guys look for love, I guess, following your guys' breakup and you guys went out into the real world. I mean, it's fascinating because to be 12th on your list and keep meeting and keep meeting. And then I know you guys didn't end up together, but there seemed to be a real mutual, like something good there. There was a relationship that, I think as viewers, we all believed in. Yeah.

I guess I think we're both into the universe push us in that direction. I'm not super into the woo- woo stuff, but yeah, it was just, again, the odds that we get cast on this TV show, who knows how many people apply, right? And then the fact that there's 16 people, 16 guys, 16 girls. And then the fact that we felt so hard in love with each other, it just kept just getting more and more statistically impossible.

It taught me certainly. And so we would get pep talks every day from Chris, the creator, and encouraging us to not choose what we've always gone for and to get outside of our comfort zone. I think for me, especially, that hit hard because I was like, The mics of the world, that was who I had always dated. Every pep talk that we got from Chris, it really resonated. I think, especially as Jordan and I continued to see each other and date, I was like, Man, this is the guy that I probably never have gone for in the real world, but this is the guy you marry.

Yeah, I guess that's what I meant because outside of the pod, did either of you, when you started dating again, did either How do you lean into being open to trying something that didn't instantly...

Yeah, I think since we both ranked each other number 12, I think the fact that we had a second date just still blows my mind because they use some form of algorithm rhythm, I guess, that they match organ donors with. I forget what it's called, but it's very-I forgot that to admit. Yeah, very scientific and intentional. Hopefully, that's not a production secret. But yeah, so it was crazy that, again, we're number 12, and I think we're so different but so similar in the same facet that we just kept on going.

I felt like, Megan, you talked a lot about your dad and Luca and your dad and how you felt like maybe he put Jordan in your life for a reason. Do you feel like that is what pushed you to choose Jordan in the end?

I would say it was a piece of it. I think there's a lot of commentary online that people are like, Oh, my God, all they talk about is diabetes. And that was played up a little bit. For sure, it was a consideration for me. And I'm probably bigger into the woo- woo things than Jordan is. But just similarly, another sign from the universe that I was paying attention to, for sure.

Well, I mean, it's also clearly a huge part of your life, Jordan. Then you went through something so traumatic with your father. Why wouldn't you talk about it? It's not your fault. They edited the way they did.

Was there anything in the pod that we didn't get to see? I think a lot of people speaking of edits and how they choose to lean into a storyline. It can be, your ITV is really great at just hammering in a narrative. There's this like, Yeah, well, there was this really cool moment. Maybe, listen, what What meant something to you, maybe the producer's just like, I don't know, that's boring or whatever. But are there moments, whether it's on your individual journeys or as a couple, we didn't get to see that you wish the audience would have been able to?

I don't know. I think they did a good job putting the main focus points on our story. But I mean, also, it was so long ago. It's a whole another life they filmed. I don't know if Netflix will ever wait that long from production to releasing it again.

How long was it?

A year and It was like a year and a half. There's just a lot of I don't remember is going on.

February of '24.

Yeah, I feel like that's what's so hard about the reunion is that everyone is trying to put themselves back in that. I think we saw it a lot with KB and Edmund of him just being like, I don't remember that that way. It's like, that's valid. It was a year and a half ago, and I'm sure so much has gone on.

Did you feel like anyone was performing at the reading Union?

No comment. I love all my cast mates. I don't want to Everyone's uniquely themselves, and I appreciate that.

I felt like there was a little bit of a pile on on Casey, was my personal opinion. Do you feel like you're probably the closest with her out of all the other girls?

I'm not up on the closest, but I think it was a little unfair that she was getting so much hate. Truthfully, I think that some girls ganged up on her a little bit. She's human. We're all human. And did she screw up on some things? Absolutely. But I think people are being a little harsh.

I feel like there was also a lot of talk about the pool party or something that also I feel like was forever ago.

That pool party wasn't even that fun. I don't know. It wasn't that dramatic. I wasn't there. Yeah. It was just a bunch of the cast, people hanging out. I don't know where all these allegations or whatever are coming from, but Two paws on Brenda's chest, and there was crying in the corner. I don't remember any of that. I was doing my own thing, but I don't remember it being that dramatic. So I don't know why that keeps coming back up because it was just a pool party.

Yeah. What is it like? First of all, the reveal. We had a chance not too long ago to go see the pods and got the tour.

We stood in the reveal.

The reveal area. What a trippy place. But I mean, just I'm curious, your guys has expectations. Did you have an idea in your head of what the other person looked like? No. How do you do that?

Jordan, I felt like we were pretty good the whole time without keeping talk about physical appearance out of it. I think tattoos was the only question that I specifically asked that was a physical marker, and he even said, Oh, I've got a couple small ones.

And was that because... Did Mike say something about his tattoos, or did you just have a random?

I'm trying to remember. I think after the fact, he did throw something in there, but I wouldn't have known it was connected to Jordan. But he would throw, just in normal conversation, he would throw some funny things in there like, Oh, I'm 5'7. I'm a skinny skater kid.

Oh, yeah, I would just fit. I was really trying to get him to lean into the whole experiment.

Yeah. I think going into the reveal, I literally prepared myself. I was like, he's going to be a total gremlin. You were preparing your sofa ugly. For the worst. Well, because I can't hide my feelings. I was just like, all right, I don't know. And so I think I was very pleasantly surprised. And when you're standing in front of that reveal door, there's a tiny little sliver because you're backlit by all these lights. And there's this tiny little sliver that I could see his shadow through. And I was like, okay, he's tall. He's got hair, like a big head of hair.

They're going to change that next season.

Completely blackout.

And they make you stand there for like-5 minutes or something.

Yeah.

And they're like, the lights are on, the lights are off. And you're like, Jesus, just show All right.

How much time are you actually spending talking before they pull you guys away again?

20 minutes? I think it was a super weird time. It was 17 or something. I don't know how they calculated this amount of time, but it was 17 or 18 or 19. But it was an odd number to go through that with.

But I think ours was cool. The other couples, I feel like you can sense the awkwardness and the tension. But with us, he had pictures of Luca. I don't know. I was expecting it to be a lot weirder than it was, but it just felt...

Yeah, it was so natural because you just spend so much time in the pods having the most intimate conversations. I don't think people realize how much time you spend together, which was also while I was so comfortable introducing my son to the whole thing, just because I feel like Megan knows me more than... You even know me better than most people on this planet, right? It's probably vice versa. But again, it's so intentional with the guided questions, and you're dating in the morning. Sometimes, I don't know. I think there was one date we spent eight hours or in the pod, and you're just having these deep conversations. You're laughing, you're crying.

Was there a certain question that... I know you're in a relationship. Are you in a relationship, Jordan? No. You're not. Is there a question that you would take from the Love is Wine process into a dating environment?

Maybe not a particular question, but the strategy of just being hyper intentional. I really like how they had the guided questions, and no one told you what to do. Sometimes you could just freestyle, and then sometimes there might be a dip conversation, and you could just open your little notebook and have eight hours to talk about something. So it was very cool how they do it. They truly wanted to work out.

We know, Megan, you were between Mike, Jordan, and Blake was your three that we saw. Who else were you talking to, Jordan?

I think it was just Casey up until the last few days.

Oh, okay. There was a moment where... Because all us girls, I think, same with you guys, we kept pretty quiet in the lounge. I don't know, I think I've seen other seasons to know, don't show your cards. But there was a moment where Casey and I, I put two and two together, and I thought we were in a love square with me, her, Mike, and Jordan.

Oh, yeah.

And I was like, oh, man. Because she said something about Luca pretty far into the process, and I was like, oh, that sucks.

So what stopped you from... Because you were planning on friend zoning Jordan for a minute. What stopped you? What was the thing that made you reconsider that?

There was one date, specifically, and I think I even walked out of that and it was shown it totally changed for me. I think just like, I don't know, we just started to really click, and it was easy and it was fun. I think we were just... It was easy.

It was fun.

Then I think Concurrently, the opposite was happening with Mike. He was starting to show some sides of him that I was like, Red flag, red flag, red flag. Yeah, there was a day pretty far in where you give each other gifts, and they intentionally have you bring two. So if you're down to two connections, each one of them gets one.

What were your gifts?

Oh, man. It was my favorite thing.

Yeah, it was like a travel guide type thing with a Polaroid camera, which got stolen out of my car. Fuck you. Who ever did that? It was stolen out of your car? They also stole a canned chicken out of there. So I was like, You know what? You probably need that. You have it.

And you're going to take some photos.

Yeah. So I remember specifically that day. That day, I was like, Do not give Mike any of my gifts. Jordan gets all the gifts.

Do you remember what he gave you?

He gave me a locket with... Yeah, it was like a cute little heart locket. But then it was funny. I was like, Well, what do you want me to put in here? And he was like, I don't know. You could put a picture of my parents. I'm like, What?

Yeah. Sounds like something all the time. Sure. You're like, I'll just give you ideas. You can take any of you want.

You guys have mentioned a few times, even here, that you're the opposite of each other's type in the pods. We'll get into the whole money dynamic. That was a big part of your guys' storyline. But that aside, what do you guys mean? Because honestly, when I was like, when we're watching you guys- You seem to have such Kim's.

I don't see that. That's what I'm saying. I think it was the lifestyle. But have you put us in the same room or you put us the pods. We're talking all day long, and I think we're laughing the same jokes. It's just the lifestyle. It does drive me nuts when you say that.

No, I don't mean that. I talked about this during when we were together. It's like, I don't think we would ever be in the same... You're roaming in different circles. I feel like we would never even cross paths in real life.

Yeah, but that doesn't make us different.

I know.

That doesn't make us different.

True.

I don't know if you saw or not, but there were some things that came out Mike. Yeah, I'm just curious if you had seen any of those and if that... Because I know you went on a date with him after filming, right?

Yeah, I would say, again, dates are very generous. Coffee, yeah, coffee. Not even. I was out with two of my friends that are couples, and he came and joined us. So not sure what that is.

A group hang.

Yeah. And then one, I would classify as a date, but erroneous.

What was the question? Did you see those, and what was your reaction? Were you shocked? Were you like, I can see it?

Yes, I did see the comments. I don't know. I mean, again, I feel like people, when you're put in the public space, are quick to say anything. So I don't know.

And then, were you in the room when nick came in and Brenda was crying over Annie and nick came in?

No. I think that's when we just got engaged and I was like, Wow, this is sick. I'm going to get super drunk. I got super drunk. The next thing you know, I was out of there. I don't know what happened.

Is that when Joe got hammered?

I mean, which day of the week?

He was Joe not hammered?

That's my dog. I don't remember. They took me to some tent to sit there by myself, and I was just like, I wish I wasn't drunk right now, but I was just celebrating, and I think me being drunk and silly was not what they wanted to see in regards to the drama happening in the lounge.

They did say our cast was the most boozy cast. They had to take booze away from us multiple times, apparently.

Some more than others.

I thought it was very important to introduce alcohol to the experiment because that was one of the things that me and Casey got into it a little bit is I felt like she would drink and then talk to me slightly different. I was like, I want to drink a bottle of wine and eat lasagna with my wife and not have any disputes.

I think that's so smart. A woman who can't hold her liquor is the biggest egg for me.

I mean, I can't. I do okay. But I just think it's important.

We've all been a little sauced before.

Mexico, we all got real sauced.

But That's the thing. I don't drink a lot, but when I do drink, I'm trying to get pretty...

But yeah, that totally makes sense of if you're going to marry this person, you need to see them when they're drunk.

You want to experience how they are when they're drunk. Because the conversations just turn sour for no reason sometimes.

Which was Was the night in Baja with him and Joe doing their back and forth, was that the first time you, I'm guessing, had seen him drunk?

Super drunk, probably. Yeah.

I mean, that was the second day we were together in person, I think.

But that was also the first time she'd seen me joke around with my boys like that. Yeah, I apologize. That was super outlet, left field. I'm sure that was culture shock to the max. They edited a lot. I was saying some wildly inappropriate stuff.

Shout out to editors.

Yeah, I want to be open, honest, and transparent. I've been working blue collar my entire life, so it's just making the worst jokes, the most inappropriate jokes to make your boys in the field laugh. She was just getting the taste of that.

Okay, so when you watched it back, you weren't like, damn, Joe's being mean to me.

No, not really. Again, I have thick skin. The guys in the blue collar field, they are mean to you. Joe was just being... He was teasing me a little bit.

Remind me what you do again for work.

I was working. I oversee maintenance contracts, essentially. For a logistical equipment, it's like semi-trucks, trailers, box trucks, and things of that nature. I just had this huge maintenance department, and I would just get things fixed when they broke and get yelled at when they broke. You're not doing it anymore? I currently do just for a different company.

Luca, how old is he? Six and a half. Six and a half. What is your relationship like with his mom?

Super good. We have a blended family. Luca has, I don't want to call her a half-sister, but he has a sister with Luca's stepdad. We're We're very... I wouldn't say we're overly close, but I think we're closer than most people in our situation. Not a weird close.

What was that process like telling his mom that you were going on Love is Blind?

Yeah, so I was just super honest that I was going to apply, and she was like, All right, cool. Then the next day, I literally applied and had a casting person hit me up the next day. I think we were both like, You're going to go on. But she was just very concerned that I was going to get villainized due to my tattoos and stuff like that. She was... Jokes on her.

Yeah, jokes on her. I feel like you're the best loved. He's the angel type.

Yeah, no. Visectomy. I think a lot of people were... Vasectomy.

Vasectomy.

I think a lot of people just caught off guard that you had one was 25 after one kid. I mean, the joke was basically like, Wow, he must have really hated that. How did you come to make that decision after having one and being a young man?

Yeah, I mean, so truth of I, I never wanted kids growing up, which there's nothing wrong with that. I had my accidental son, which is the best thing that's ever happened. I just decided it's just not a mistake that I think I want to make again. Not to call him a mistake, but he was a happy accident, right? I just wanted to make... I I just wanted to make sure I was the one being responsible because, again, the hormones and birth control and stuff, the guys are always just like, Oh, I can do whatever I want. I was just trying to be more responsible.

Okay. Megan, did you feel like that hearing that he had a vasectomy, I guess, what was your reaction to that?

Yeah. I mean, that's why the first day when he came in and said that, I was like, oh, because I have always wanted kids. I'm not very well-versed on how easy Hopefully, that's reversed and the success rate and everything like that. So I was like, yeah, I want my own kids. I don't know if I love that.

I feel like it made a little bit more sense. I feel like, and correct me if I'm wrong, maybe it attracted you a little bit more to him when he was It was like, Listen, women have to take birth control. I'm doing my part so that women don't have to.

Did that change your perspective? We had this same conversation in the pod. Why did you do it? Would you get it reversed? Would you have more kids? And once I got comfortable with that and he would get it reversed, he would have more kids, it was fine. But that first day, I was like, Whoa, shit. I'm scared.

I told everyone the first date. I just tried to... Because if my person is not there, I was trying to get the fuck out of there. Totally.

You were always, no matter what. And is that how you treat dates off camera in general?

So I do now, but before, I just was not being intentional. I was projecting a lot and no pun intended.

Ejecting a lie.

My bad.

That's crazy.

Oh, the joke. The projecting. There's no off button, unfortunately. But yeah, I wasn't being intentional, truthfully. But now it's... I mean, obviously everyone knows business now, so there's no hiding anything. But yeah, it's just I try to be very open and honest about what I'm looking for.

Does this show in any way or the conversations you had with Megan about having kids, and I don't know if you're looking, but if you were to meet someone and decide that you want to spend a lifetime with them, do you feel like you're more open to having more children or not, based off of this experience or Luca in general?

Yeah. I don't know if I'd want more of my own, but I feel very strongly about adopt being or fostering because there's just tons of kids in need. I already have a little piece of me.

But what if you, like with the Megan situation-So if I meet someone that's like, it's a deal with their kids. She's just like, Listen, I really want to have At least who?

I'm not hard to convince, so I'll be honest.

You have to twist my arm.

It's not your thing, but you're not like a...

I would love to have another kid. It's just, again, I don't want to have a kid out of selfishness. I want it to be, obviously, collective agreement, something that's planned, this go around.

I mean, it's interesting because obviously you've spoken so glowingly about your son and the joy he brings to your life. But it sounds like you said, he wasn't planned. How old were you at the time when you had him?

He was 25.

For a young man, it's a pretty scary time. How well did you even know his mom that well?

Not very well. I mean, we probably were dating three or four months.

What was that like? I mean, that must have been a fairly nerve-wracking experience.

I guess you'd think that, but I was so fortunate in my career. I skipped college. I just went straight into... I was a mechanic for a long time. I was just making really good money. I've just always been a penny pincher, and I just felt so when she told me, it was like, All right, well, let's do this. I just, again, was so fortunate that maybe that was just my mindset, but I was never scared or whatever. I was just like, All right, we're doing this.

How old was he when you found out he had diabetes?

He was two when he was diagnosed. Two? Yeah.

Okay, wow. How is he today?

He's amazing. Yeah, he's doing so good. Thank you.

Are you going to show him the show?

Not yet. Too many potty words in there for him, but I would love for him to see it when he's older.

How did you find out? Did you just random phone call? Were you dating?

Yeah, that was… I mean, it was a really rocky relationship, and she just called me and said, Hey, I took a pregnancy test, and it's positive. I was like, Okay, I don't know what we do from here, but let's figure it out.

So right away, you're just offering her whatever support she needs.

Yeah, no, 100%. I said, Let's at least try. Let's try to make this work.

What was your parents' reaction? Were they like…

My parents are very conservative people, and they were like, You need to get married to her. I said, I'm okay. I said, I'm good. Good on that. We'll give this a go. We'll give it some time. Yeah.

I appreciate that just because there's always a lot of conversations that can be polarizing around this topic. But as a man, it's great that you did your to make her feel like she had your support. Because I think a lot of times women in those positions can feel very alone and very isolated, especially if they don't have a relationship or rapport with the guy they got pregnant with and they really feel like they're being told they're on an island.

I don't want you to put me on a bed as well because I definitely, if I could have got a redo, I did not treat her the way I should have. I was very like, Oh, you got pregnant. This is your responsibility. It's a very immature mindset. One time, she asked me to rub her feet, and I told her no. Going back, terrible, right? But I try to be big on accountability. Again, I was a young man. I've made a million mistakes. I'm going to make a million more, but I really wish I could have treated her just a lot better.

I appreciate the self-awareness, and thanks for being so honest about that. Again, I'm not trying to put you on a pedestal, but I just think there's a lot of times in those situations, there's one thing to not get a foot rub, and there's another thing to just be like, I'm literally alone, and I I don't know how to... There are a lot of women out there who may want to move forward and have this child, but truly feel like they can't, and they don't have the means to do that.

Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'm just too self-critical sometimes. But yeah, I just wish that.

But yeah, sure. Rubber feet next time.

I'm not like that. Lucas does that, I should say. We're strictly friends now.

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What is it like when you guys go from the pods? I think the weirdest part, I don't think a lot of people's favorite part of is blind is that vacation or whatever you want to call it, where you're immediately thrusted in. To living together. To living together. There's nerves, there's probably a lot of sexual tension. It's like, should we fuck? I don't know. Is it weird if we do? How did you guys transition from having this incredible amount of rapport through the pause and these conversations where you open it up in ways you've never opened up before, but simultaneously feeling like... I don't know. I just met you yesterday. How did you guys navigate that weirdness?

I thought it was pretty seamless. I think that first day or night in Baha, of course, it's a little awkward, but you're also getting used to a camera crew around you. I think that was the biggest adjustment because we're trying to have these intimate moments. Not even intimate moments, but just moments. It's struggling or whatever. There's a camera. Yeah. I think that was probably the biggest adjustment.

We were trying to outsmart them one time. We're like, Oh, let's just say we're getting in the pool so they take the mics off of us, and then a fucking hole boom comes out. We were just like, If we take our mics off, then what are they going to do? Well, they're going to get the audio guy with the boom. Yeah.

No, but I didn't think it.

I thought it was pretty-No, I think it was very natural and organic. Yeah, just like she said, seamless for sure.

I know that you all prompted to have the sex conversation in the pod. I guess going into your... What are we calling it? Baha? Baha. Vacation?

Baha, yeah.

Honeynoon? Okay. Going into Baha, were you all on the same page of like, Hey, we're going to sleep in the same bed?

Yeah, she asked me in the pod, she's like, Are we going to constimate?

Constimate? Is that what you said?

Constimate? Consumate, whatever. But I said, I don't even know what that word means. Are you going to constimate? She said, Are we going to have sex? I was like, Yeah. I said, If you're down, please. I've been like, Yeah, around whatever, how many dudes, just the whole time, no phone, no radio, no.

Did you all become friends with the cameraman or mic guys because you're just like, Hey, Todd, or whoever?

Yeah, because you got a crew. So especially when we were in Denver, we had an assigned crew. We got pretty close to them.

I suppose it's not too much different than meeting someone long distance and having a lot of conversations on the phone. I mean, you would know what they look like. Yeah.

It wasn't weird for me at all.

I think just the time frame.

Yeah, the time frame is pretty accelerated.

How long is it in total again?

It's like we're in the pod for 10 days.

Pods, 10 days. And then, bahas a week. And then Baha's a week, and then real life is...

Four weeks.

Four and a half weeks. It's crazy.

So obviously, back to your guys' main storyline, the lifestyles, let's just call it. I guess I'm just... Well, first of all, what car and car do you drive?

Why Why is this such a big deal? Because you guys made it a big deal.

No, it wasn't.

I swear. They definitely clipped it to be a big deal. I think I asked that. It was like an our inside joke, and they turned it into something where we would just say to make it laugh, or I knew it would be like you would tickle her a little bit. Yeah, that was definitely like an editing. They spun that hard.

Marrying someone on our team was like, It's a cyber truck for sure.

They didn't even have cyber trucks to that time.

That's how long ago this thing was. It's not even that cool. I don't even know why it's... I think it That was just one of those things in my mind, I was like, I just don't even want to say because despite what's being shown and what people are talking about, Oh, she just talks about money all the time. I thought I was going into it being very conscious about, if anything, I want to hold that close to my chest. The way they spun it, obviously, was not the case.

If you would have just said the car, it would have blown over so quick. True.

Yeah, it was like the mystery.

It's a Range Rover. Okay.

It's like the mystery behind it. That's what we got. I think I got this Range Rover.

Yeah, not a big deal.

But it was a fun game for everyone to try to figure it out.

Yeah, no, 100%. That's what it was to us. It was literally just a game, nothing more. I wasn't trying to figure out how much money she had. It was never truly about the money. I don't think we really... I didn't find out about the money-money until we were in Mexico, I think.

When you say money-money, are we rich?

Are we rich? We is crazy.

I'm not billionaire rich, but Oh, wow.

That leaves one. I'm just one to level under.

No, I mean, I'm very... Me neither. I'm proud of what I've done. It's certainly not like, can't work the rest of my life, Rich.

And you're self-made? Yeah. Pretty incredible.

Which is there's a lot of funny commentary, too. Like, Oh, her dad died and she took over his business. I'm like, my dad was not... He had his own marketing thing, but one, I Never did marketing. Two never took over that business. What did you do?

How did you make your millions?

Oil and gas. Yeah.

There's money in oil and gas. Sure. Everyone needs it.

How does one get into oil and gas?

I had just straight When I got out of college, I was fishing my resume out to all my friends' parents. One of my friends in Denver, her dad was an exec at a company there. So he got me in as an admin, and then I just worked my way up. Two years into being at first company, I got recruited over to a startup. I had equity in the company, which that was the game changer because truthfully, my salary was never anything, anything sizable.

So the startup got bought out?

Yeah, twice. We basically, we would flip oil and gas assets like you would a house. We'd go in, buy or lease up some land, drill a couple of holes, prove that there's oil there, And then your shells or Exxon or in our case, Devon, they came in and bought the whole company.

And then what is it that you do now?

Yeah. So during the show, I was working on starting a health and wellness business here in LA. Oh, yeah. Because you have a place. Yeah. I had a place. You sold it. Yeah. But then I moved back to Denver, and it was way too much. So my partners are still running with it, but I've stepped away.

And do you think you'll find yourself back it at some point or are you fully, you're fully removed?

I thought it was a really interesting... I was fascinating with you guys as a relationship. Obviously, as individuals, it was easy to root for you both. And as a couple, it was nice to root for. But I am curious just because I think there's a lot of conversations around how your relationship was portrayed. As a woman, you were independently successful, Millionaire. But again, I don't know what's true or what was narratives were pushed, but as a viewer and as a fan, I appreciate you guys opening up, but it almost seemed like you talked a lot about your money in a way that might make Jordan feel a certain way. It was almost as if you talked about her money in a way that would make her feel a certain type of way. As a viewer and as a fan, I'm thinking, Why can't they work past this? Why are both of them making it such a big deal or a point of insecurity. Does that make sense?

For me, I don't think it was the money thing. That's where even you're saying as a viewer, that's how it came off, and I think that's where I'm getting a little frustrated. I think it was just more the lifestyle things in general, but I know it's convoluted then because having money, it's allowed me to have the lifestyle that I live.

I never thought it was about the money. I think we talked about money a a couple of times, and then we were talking to prenup attorneys and stuff. Everyone knew exactly how much money everyone had. But I think for me and for Megan, it came out to time. I just didn't have the time that she needed. Nothing wrong with that. Totally fine. But I was just grinding the entire time. And then so I would love to play golf or I would love to play tennis. It's just like with how my life is structured being a single parent, it was not... There was no time for me to do that.

It was almost as if you were After selling or being a part of some buyout like you were, you can almost be on semi-retirement mode. Is that where you were at when you went on the show?

A little bit. I mean, it's given me the flexibility to do what I want. I was working on starting that business, and that, again, my partners are running with that. I'm not in it any longer, but it's given me the flexibility.

Well, I mean, again, I'm trying to be... Obviously, the time has passed. You guys are in a relationship. You're not in a relationship together. You're in a relationship with someone else. I want to be respectful to all that because it's not like I'm guessing no regrets.

Unless.

No. Second. Yeah, but I think, and this is where I think had I been 10% and gone through with it, I would have easily been like, Fuck it. Quit your job. Let's do this. I'll cover us until we can both get there.

That was never a conversation, by the way. I think I never wanted to be a sugar baby. I never wanted any...

I like working- No, and I knew that about you. But I'm saying if it came down to it, I would have no issue doing that.

How much did you want to travel?

Not even that much. But I think that was like, there was an Italy trip on the forefront when we were speaking about it. Yeah, and a few other things. It was like, he couldn't come, and respectfully so, because he took three weeks off for the pods and whatever, and he just didn't have any time. But I think that was like, I get it, but it was also a little of a bummer because I'm like, Man, here I'm doing this. I want my husband to be able to come travel with me and do all the things. I've been doing all these things alone for all these years, and that's what I want in a husband and in a partner. I think that was, at least on my end, one of our incompatibilities. Because I did want somebody to do a lot of those things with and not just a roommate, a warm body to come home at the end of the night.

How did you meet your current boyfriend?

How did you meet him? Yeah. So his friend, we both attended this wellness retreat called the Hoffman Institute. Oh, yeah. Or Hoffman Process. I was on a week with his best friend. I was living in LA at the time, and then after the show, I moved back to Denver. I moved back to Denver June of '24, so it was two months after we wrapped. And I think just through, you end up following everybody from your week on Instagram. And so he reached out and was like, Hey, it looks like you're back in Denver. Can't remember if you're single or married or whatever, but if you're single, I'd love to introduce you to my best friend. I was like, Sure.

And then three months later got pregnant, right?

Is that what you said at the beginning? Yes, we met at the end of July, which this is crazy. You talk about universe. We met at the end of July, and the same day we met a year later when our son was born. That is true.

How did it feel when you found out she had a child?

I truly-We're not happy for her. We really didn't speak for a year. I wasn't even trying to cry at her business. I just was hearing all these rumors circulating, and I was like, I just want her to be aware of this stuff. And then we just had a conversation. I felt like, yeah, I'm happy for you. I knew she wanted to be a mom, but there was no disdain. My feelings are, I'm totally happy, healthy, and thriving.

And were the rumors around town, or was this-Yeah.

So I was hearing the rumors around town. I didn't feel the need to reach out until I got this Instagram message with this person with very intimate details. I was like, That's weird. So that's when I had a center of text.

And then, I guess, had you felt the need to let Jordan know before he reached out to you?

Yeah. So it was always on my radar. But I think the timing thing was tricky because I was like, I don't I don't want to tell him too far in advance because I was keeping it very close to my chest. And I didn't want that getting out further with the additional pod squad people.

Yeah, it's definitely tricky.

And do I tell him when I'm pregnant? I don't know. It was a weird- Were you going to wait till the reunion, though?

Were you going to wait till the reunion, tell me? No. Okay, thank God.

No, but even production, they were like... Because I was adamant. I want to tell them before. Of course, they're like, No way.

That would have been bad for everybody.

Yeah, no way. He and I have always been very... We did have one time on filming where I blindsided him with a conversation. Ever since then, we both have been very like, Hey, let's not do that again. But yeah, I was always going to tell him, but the timing thing was hard because even I was a little superstitious. I had a good pregnancy, but even the birth, I'm like, God forbid, anything happens and this baby doesn't come safely or whatever. I think there was just a lot of weird stuff. So first and foremost was getting baby here healthy. And then that was two months or, yeah, probably two months before this was airing.

When you found out you were having a boy, did Jordan, Luca ever cross your mind?

I don't know if I would... I don't know. No.

I knew a question. And how did your current boyfriend Does he have a name? Paul. Okay. How did Paul feel about you being like, Hey, there's this person I have to call to let him know about this?

Yeah. I've been very transparent with him from the start, and he's been super supportive of everything. He was actually the one encouraging me like, Hey, have you told Jordan? Have you told Jordan? When are you telling Jordan? I'm like, I'm again trying to figure out when is the right time. If anything, Paul was the pushing me to do it sooner.

What did you think Megan's reasons were for ending the relationship?

I just think it was the time. I think she just needed me to be more available, and that wasn't possible at that current stage of life. Again, nothing wrong with that. Me and Megan talk a lot, and she had to make the hard decision to end things. But in turn, that was the right decision for my family in the long run, and the same for her. There are no right or wrong answers in What I definitely didn't want her to do is to say yes and then not actually want to get married, and then we dragged my son through a divorce a year later. I would have much rather what actually happened happened than for her to go through with a marriage. She wasn't...

Were you planning on saying yes?

I'm a chronic underthinker. She checks my boxes. I think that's the duality of man.

I'm the opposite. I overthink everything.

I was like, She checks my boxes. I'm there.

But I think Jordan, and this is even the term when we throw around lifestyle, I think that's getting a little convoluted to me.

It wasn't lifestyle. I think it literally was just time because at that time, I was just so buried in work and then fatherhood and then these crazy... The filming schedule was just insane. I just wasn't myself. I was just doing my own thing out of survival mode, essentially.

Do you think in a way, maybe both of your, maybe stubbornness is the word, I don't know, of not finding compromise on that topic was almost like, not a projection, but your inner voice maybe saying, This is great, but maybe this isn't my person. I say that because I feel like maybe he doesn't go to Italy or maybe you're busy right now. But if this is your person, you figure it out.

I think that's where that got hard for me because, like Jordan said, during filming it on camera, I feel like sometimes producers he even had to push us like, Hey, you guys need to talk a little bit more. And then when we had a day off camera that he was very quiet, then I was like, Oh, man.

She's not my normal self, right? Yes.

And this is where I think it's, again, circumstance because Jordan's telling me, That's not who I am. Because I was worried like, Oh, shit. I'm about to marry this guy in 10 days. And we can't even have a day alone where we're having fun and laughing. It doesn't always need to be conversation, but at least shoot the shit a little, especially with Jordan, who is so funny. I just saw this different side of him.

I was down bad, though.

Yeah. He was saying, I think I was a little harsh on him for not giving him the benefit of the doubt, but it's like, you're about to get married in 10 days. And do I trust his word that this is not who he is? Because his actions are showing a little bit differently.

That's the trippiest part about this show is nuance nuanced moments in a relationship. That scene where you were down bad and you were like, Hey, why don't we talk about our days? We were talking about on the show. We had a moment like that when Nelly moved across the country in with me. I don't know. Sometimes, a lot of times as guys, I'm a bit introverted at two. Oh, 100%. Or I'm just like...

I don't know if you've ever worked a job you hate, but the last thing I want to do after a long day of getting my teeth kicked in is talk about it. I think guys decompressed on the car ride home, and then I don't want to open that can of worms until I have to.

Or even a job you love. It's like, I just want to just sit in silence.

No, and I get that. But I think it was like...

She had probably had no idea what I did, period. I just never talked about it at zero. I just was like, Yeah, I fixed shit. She's like, What does that even mean?

Like, I can't talk about it.

Is she a drug dealer?

Yeah, my last job was not fun.

No. I've been in that... At the oil and gas company. I was in that nine to five grind, and I was the same. I would want to come home and During the week is... Oh, please. You said nine to five grind. I was. That's not a grind, but I'm sorry, guys. Okay, well, I was in that life where I would come home and to your point, I wouldn't want to. But when We have a whole day together, and we did all the things. We went to get our nails done. We went out to lunch. We went to Topgolf, and it was like, parts of it for me were awkward. And I'm like, this isn't how I should be feeling 10 days before I'm about to this person. Sure, we are still fresh in the relationship, but that was the first, yikes.

Does it feel like the 10 days in the pod, week in whatever hotel, and then three weeks in your city, does it almost feel like a simulated year of a relationship or the pods of the honeymoon phase? Because meeting in the pods and not seeing them, you're just always on. You have a singular focus. You no distraction. It's just easy to be chatty for eight hours because you can't see this person. Then all of a sudden, you go on the vacation and now you're living with each other in your hometown for three weeks to your point where it's just like, I don't know, what the fuck do we have left to talk about? We talked in the pod for... No, I'm not ready at all. I don't... Fuck. Is there a come-down in that regard where you're just like... There's a lot of like, You're not the person I meant in the pod. Yeah.

Well, I think it's hard, too, because part of me, too, I felt like Jordan was able to give me all of himself in the pods. Then when we got into real life, that's not the case. But then it's like, even production, they're the ones, well, maybe a combination, but I think They're the ones planning all these things. It's like, How do I even really know? Does Jordan, does he plan dates? Are we going to go on nice dinners? Are we going to do the things? I think I felt a little bit. I'm a big believer that I always want to feel like my partner we're dating, whether we're two weeks in or 20 years in. And I still want to be courted and romanticized a little bit. And I just... I was having a hard time knowing if that was the case.

It's valid.

It's valid.

What made you decide to end it before going to the altar?

I mean, I think obvious reasons. What you don't see, I think our breakup on camera came a little out of the blue. I know we had the closet conversation.

It was like the week before you're supposed to get married, it's supposed to be a Black week. You're not really supposed to see each other. But I think they knew everyone was like... Because I think one day she was in, and then I would be like, Well, you weren't in yesterday, so now I'm not in. And then we were flipper floppy. So we waited till the last second to call it off. But we had committed not to leave each other at the altar because my son was going to be there. And we had many conversations that week leading up to it. We don't mean to disappoint the viewers, but this was real. This was our real lives, our real feelings. Again, stability is very important for Luca and Megan and our whole family. We just didn't want to, not to let everyone down, but we didn't want to be on stage.

Yeah. We had conversations, too. Man, do we do that? Keep Luca at home, but go up there and we both mutually say no or whatever. But ultimately, yeah.

Did you have to fight for your ability to honor that agreement that you Yes and no.

I think...

Because at the end of the day, there's still a TV show. Yeah, it's just like, there's a lot of times people are like, I'm not going to do that.

Then there are people who are very good at convincing you to change your mind. People producers.

We love our production team.

No, they were amazing. I think it was a very unique situation with Luca, and I think they were very respectful of that.

It's good to hear. I mean, a lot of times you don't hear that. Yeah.

No, because it's unprecedented, but especially in Love is Vine, so I think...

Love is Vine history.

Yeah, they were very supportive and totally understood.

How has being a mom changed your perspective on, I guess, life?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's taught me how to be a lot more selfless and just like, it's no longer about me.

Are you taking less vacations?

I mean, he's still so fresh. He's still so little. He can go anywhere. But he came out to LA with us for the reunion, which was fun. Then we have a few trips coming up here. Yeah, we're excited.

You guys were only dating for three months before you?

Yeah.

What was that experience like? How did you guys navigate that?

Paul and I, it was one of those things when you know, you know. Pretty immediately, and especially so fresh off the love is blind thing, having all those questions in your arsenal. I wasn't fucking around anymore. If somebody wasn't my person, I was like, All right, if If you can't answer these or be emotionally available or we're not aligned in X, Y, and Z, move on. Because I do want to be married. Paul and I met and we had talked about kids, and I had had multiple doctors in the past tell me that I would have a hard time getting pregnant naturally. I think we were just a little more...

Careful. Reckless.

Yeah, reckless.

Wait, did he give you the what the fuck?

You said I thought you told me. You got me.

No, but we both...

Strange with a bisectomy.

We both were... Kids were on the radar for sure.

Bisectomy?

Bisectomy. You're saying it italicized.

Yeah, you're putting the little...

Well, it's an important operation, so I don't want to give it its emphasis.

Yeah, no. I think it happened a little more quickly than we were planning, but we were planning.

Okay.

Fans are suspecting that maybe you called the paparazzi on yourself.

Oh, my God. I did not. One, I didn't know there was a paparazzi in Denver. Two, I think it would have looked a lot cuter. That's what we always say. Because some of those shots were a little trolley.

That's what we always say. We're like, If we're going to call the paparazzi on herself. We're going to be looking good. We're not going to be at the end of the day.

How do you even set that up? There's a number to call? At the end of the day...

I mean, a publice in LA would know how to facilitate something like that. In LA, there are places where they'll hang out.

No, but I wanted to share that news myself on the reunion, and that honestly pissed me off a little bit that they took that away from me, and there was a couple of reality bloggers, or I don't know what you call them.

What did we call them?

You know who I'm talking about? Irrelevant.

Yeah. They broke it originally, and then after the fact it got out or somebody obviously said it was me.

But yeah, that annoyed me. Yeah, that would be scary. I mean, it's scary, and that's my news to share.

Totally. Were you nervous about knowing how the season unfolded between the two of you and the narrative and the conversations about having kids or not having kids and your one line when you broke up, which is like, I'm not sure if I'll ever want to be or be able to be a mother. Were you worried about how fans would react at all to finding out you were a mom, or was it just not even a concern? No.

I mean, people are going to say what they're going to say. Yeah, I think that was heartbreaking for me to watch back. It wasn't that I was questioning if I ever wanted to be... I think it just... In that moment, you had so many ups and downs, and it was so emotional. I'm like, Man, I don't know. This is tough. But I think deep down, I knew I always wanted to be a mom.

Did you and Paul have a conversation about what sharing your son would look like now that you have eyes on you?

Yeah, we're still trying to navigate that. The pictures we shared at the reunion, he was a pretty fresh newborn, and he even looks like a different kid now. I'd be curious to hear your guys take.

First year, we-Westopped after first. We were pretty liberal because it was just fun being parents. And after a year, we tried to avoid showing her face.

And they do. I mean, the baby stage, they change so much. Yeah, he's already different. Now that who she is now, I think, is who she is going to look like for a minute. So that's why we stopped.

It just gets weird when they mean well, but people come up and...

Yeah, that's weird. It's like, Hey, it's River. Yeah.

Yikes. Yeah, no way.

But yeah, it's tough because you want to, you're excited, you want to show people. There's no right or wrong. It's just a personal preference. But yeah, we've gotten a little bit more conservative with it.

We obviously still share our lives. I want to still show her, so we do a lot of back of her head types of things, which works out totally fine and very easy.

What's dating look like for you these days?

It's casual, man. It's just been... I don't know. I think it's a personal flaw right now, but I'm like, Oh, all these people all of a sudden want to date me. I'm like, I've been the same guy as I was my entire life. It's left a bad taste in my mouth, but I think that's just something I need to work on personally.

Bad taste, how?

I just think I'm being just too paranoid for no reason. I don't know if you could be too paranoid. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I'm like, Oh, this is- Well, paranoid maybe is the wrong word.

I think it's good to be careful being in the public eye, and I definitely think you can't be too safe with online dating as a public figure. I think, yeah, there's just a lot of people who-Well, that's the thing.

I'm not doing any online dating. I've been off the dating app for a long time.

Not even online dating or slamming your DMs or just meeting people out. I think 99% of people mean well, they just get weird.

For example, Joe's current girlfriend we saw did her own press for, which...

No comment.

Is interesting.

I love everybody. It's all good. Have you met her? Yeah, I love everybody. Sure.

And we love everybody, too. And we love everybody, too.

Totally.

But that might be something that me personally would maybe want to stay away from is my significant other who does not have a bone in the fight to start doing their own press talking about other people that I was on a show with. It might just make me feel unsafe in a way, my personal opinion. We did have someone call in to our show yesterday, and they said they thought you should be the bachelor.

There you go.

Yeah, I don't know. I've heard. I've seen the article, so I don't know about... I mean, you were on the bachelor, right?

Yes.

But I told her to slide into your DM, so maybe...

I don't Well, I don't read the DMs. I'm not a good place to slide.

Interestingly enough, listen, you are in a unique position as someone who is a father who has no immediate plans to have more children. How old are you?

Just turned 31.

You're an incredibly young man. Yes, yeah. You've had a vasectomy.

That's what they say.

Word around town.

But you are, as long as you're up front, in a really to really settle into a fun fuckboy era.

Oh, shucks. Yeah, I feel like I'm too old for that. My back hurts already just from sleeping. Too old?

31.

Yeah, no, I just want to be intentional with what I do and my actions. You're just a good person. No, definitely. No. I'm okay. I'm a law-abiding citizen.

You want to... But yeah, so it sounds like you would ideally like to find a committed relationship.

Relationship right now? It's so hard to say. I just think I don't want to introduce anyone to my son at the moment. I think what I put him through, because again, I know Megan has been catching heat for that. I was the one that introduced him to this. Luca's mom didn't have anything to do with that. It was 100% me.

Can't you date someone and just be like, Hey, listen, just up front, I have a kid, but like...

You're not meeting him? For sure.

Yeah, I think so. You might be, but I am very protective over that. It's not personal, and I don't want you to make it a thing. If someone can respect that, and if not, then I'll tell you.

Yeah, but I just think that's the bridge between casual dating and being in a serious relationship is introducing my son. It's like, I wouldn't introduce my son to someone I wouldn't consider a serious relationship. It's just, I don't know.

I think it's funny to see the commentary online, too, about people like, Oh, she begged to meet his son, and whatever. Sure. I think what you don't see... I was very adamant that I wanted to meet Luca's mom before I met Luca, just so she could get comfortable. Like Jordan said, She didn't sign up for this. This is crazy. It's fast. So I wanted her to be comfortable with me. And I think my frustration was that that time frame kept getting pushed. And before we knew it, we were like two weeks into Denver or real life.

Yeah, because we were teetering, do we include him in the show and stuff? And then his mom, one day would be like, I don't see the harm. And then, obviously, we're just trying to protect him. So at the end of the day, we told production, Hey, it's going to really end up with Luca's mom. And she said, I don't want to do this. I don't want them in there. And we all said, Okay, cool. We like that. Let's do that. So it was just a lot of prolonging, introducing him. And obviously, that's a huge commitment for Megan to just step into that. I don't want to call it a role or whatever, but I needed Megan to experience that because that's fair to her.

Same with Luca. I would want Luca. I didn't think this would be the case, but God forbid, he was like, I don't like her.

No, it makes it... Again, from a love is blind standpoint, it makes total sense that you guys had to make... I mean, Luca included, but all aspects of your life, you had to make a lot of exceptions to the rule because this whole experiment was an exception to the rule. I am curious for you, do you think, not in any way putting anything on Megan, because again, it's more the experiment you guys signed up for. To your point, it was your choice. Made a lot of sense for the both of Do you think, to that regard, that experience affected you? Because there's a lot of single parents out here listening to the show, and it's, imagine a very sensitive topic when it comes to dating. How do I handle this? What's the best way? What's the wrong way? You referenced on the show, just like, I think that what worried you the most or bothered you is just how impressionable Luca is. If you're dating, though, let's say you're just dating, you meet someone, you're casual, you're Hey, I'm just very cautious about my son, but you feel like it's going somewhere, you like this person.

Couldn't they just meet this person as a friend without you putting any...

See, I just like to be super transparent with my son. That's just how I lead. I feel like that'd be a white lie. I wouldn't want to... Because that's just like you're just breaking down that wall. Then you're just opening the door to, Hey, here's my other friend. She's not my friend anymore. Here's my new friend. I just don't want to do that. I'm just I'm overly protective, and I want to stay that way.

Now, the comments that Mike made about Luca. Yeah. I know you said you've forgiven him or whatever. How did you forgive him? I guess.

Can you remind me what those were?

He basically said like...

It's just a common misconception in the diabetic community. If you're not exposed to it a lot, that people aren't aware that there's two types of diabetes. A lot of the time people are like, Oh, your kid has diabetes. You should feed them healthier.

You fed him too much sugar and you made him okay.

Exactly. It's like, obviously, his pancreas just took a shit due to genetics, not anything anyone did. He just got the car or the hand he didn't deserve.

So you imply that you were just like, going to Derry Queen every day.

Pretty much.

I guess me being a mom, I feel like I am anyone who says anything about my kid.

I'm like, Will copy, will copy. Yeah, really. Again, I wish he could have told me that earlier just so we could have processed it a little, had a little more time to process it. But I just got completely blindsided. We're doing Press in LA, and I had three back-to-back reporters be like, What do you think about Mike's comments? I was like, What comments? I've been hanging out with him for a year.

He texted me and he was like, Did Mike say anything? Because everyone thought we pre-screened the show.

So I was like, What comments are you guys talking about? No one would tell me. It was driving me fucking crazy.

Because Mike would make the subtle, Oh, you're making the wrong decision. And especially that breakup conversation, and I was like, What aren't you telling me? But yeah, I mean, now watching it after the fact, he did throw some little...

Do you want to dance at the audio?

Oh, I did see that.

Yeah, no. Crazy.

Do you regret your decision? Absolutely not. Crazy.

Too crazy. He got to believe in himself.

Yeah, nothing wrong with believing in yourself.

But I guess what was that conversation like with you and Mike to finally get to a point where you were like...

Yeah, so he literally... I think we all stayed up till 1: 00 in the morning or woke up super early as soon as the pod episodes dropped. I think we all were just watching it at the exact same time. As soon as that comment came, he texted me and said, Hey, man, I totally misspoke. I was literally like, Brother, I forgive you. I get it. That was a long time ago. Everyone was in this emotionally weird place, maybe not acting like themselves 100%.

Trying to be funny or something.

Yeah, exactly. It was just like, Hey, I totally understand. Then again, he made it known that he was going to learn the differences. He held himself accountable. He made this donation alive for a which is my favorite charity I've ever worked with. Again, he held himself accountable, and they're just like, What's the point of holding that over his head? There is no point. He knows the difference now, so that's a win in my book.

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Are you friends with nick?

No, not really.

It seemed like there was an overall vibe. I think Joe even said something. You all hate him.

I hate him. I hate anyone.

He loves everybody.

Me and nick talk on the side. Nick does his own thing. He's in his own lane. Then I guess maybe our lifestyles don't align. You're using my phrase.

You're using my phrase.

No, I got-Your time. I love nick. All my cast mates I love, yeah. Okay.

Not to drill you about your dating life, but-No, you're good. Because you're in this very unique point in your life, honestly. I don't know why you guys signed up for this show. I think a lot of fans, having been in your guys' position before, will almost shame you into not... Into feeling guilty about taking advantage of the very incredible benefits that come with going on the show and becoming a public favorite of gear for a period of time. It often, for most people, fades pretty quickly, but it's a cool fucking thing. You can do a lot of... You can have cool experiences, and you can have cool opportunities. It started on with, Are you here for the right reasons? But it's carried over to all reality TV love competition shows where you're not allowed to have fun and benefit from this. Quite honestly, if you come out of this as a single person, it can, minus the fuck being a fuckboy, whatever. But you can have a chance to meet people, which can be challenging and confusing and a little you get paranoid. But what does this person in your mind look like? How could meet someone where you would feel safe and excited about who she is and what that would give you?

This could be worth it thinking about how I might introduce this person into Luca's life and things like that.

Yeah, I don't know. I guess I'm not set on an appearance. It's more just like, I want someone to treat me like I just need someone that's overly patient, someone who's almost motherly in tone. Yeah, and someone who holds me accountable.

I'm assuming you don't want someone to mother you, right?

Yeah, be my mommy.

I think there's a lot of women out there who feel like they have to sometimes.

Yeah, no, I mean, I'm a grown up. I can make my own decisions and I do my own stuff. I guess I spent the whole year and a half processing what we went through, being like, what do I want coming up? And now that we close that chapter of our life, and I'm like, I really don't know what I'm looking for. I'm just not looking to be a fuckboy and not really looking to be the bachelor.

When it shows up, you'll know.

I hope so. That's the scary thing. I really hope I do know. But I don't know if I... I just feel like my head, My priorities are just elsewhere right now besides dating, dating.

Did you get a brand deal with Ninja?

Ninja? Yeah.

And Crystal Light?

Not Crystal Light. That's fucked up then.

Did you see they did a chicken and Crystal Light?

I didn't create I didn't create the chicken smoothie. But you put it on the map. I put it on the map.

You put it on the map.

Yeah, more power to them. As long as everyone gets their bag, I'm happy.

Question for both of you, I guess, and how you guys want to answer it, but a lot of women listen to this show. A lot of successful professional women listen to this show. Obviously, your guys' dynamic was loosely based off of this concept that I think a lot of successful professional women feel like that it emasculates men or they have a hard your time dating because as soon as a guy they're dating finds out they make a lot of money or the man looks… It complicates that dynamic. I'm just curious, how did you feel about that? Did you feel like you represented that narrative? I guess a question for you since you're single, because you're obviously a very confident guy. You seem self-assured.

I'm glad I looked that way.

I don't know, confident I think being honest and vulnerable takes a level of confidence that a lot of people don't have. I think the reason I say that about you is because you went on a very intimidating, very popular show, and it seems like you were pretty open to showing us who you were. That takes a lot of guts. I think a lot of people go on those shows and are very performative. That's why my opinion is that. But yeah, do you feel like for the most part, as someone who was portrayed in this relationship with Megan who made a lot of money, has that made you think about that dynamic at all and how you would feel about that situation.

No, I'm just such a simple guy.

Jordan has done very well for himself, too.

Yeah, that's it. For the record.

They do make you seem like you're like, Penny Pinchin. No, poor Carlos.

Jordan is very well-wired.

You lean into that a little bit. I'm just a simple guy.

He's like, drive a Kia, sleep on the out.

It's funny. I thought we were always pretty good with it because we would joke about it. But we're not... I mean, yeah, he has done very for himself. But I think even that behind-the-scenes thing where my friends came and they were joking, like Jordan driving up in his Kia, when we went to look at that house, we both pulled up. It was just like, it's funny. I don't know, I think.

Yeah, I do think they spun it like I was fucking pulled for. I've been beyond fortunate. I just want to make sure I got food on the table. I've never been a car guy. Such a simple Yeah, I'm just a simple dude.

What would you splurge on?

If I won the lottery or something?

I don't know. What's the craziest thing you've ever purchased for yourself?

Craziest thing I've ever purchased for myself.

Where you're like, I don't know if I should have done that. That was crazy. Oh, my God.

I do have a pair of Gucci shoes. Then I'm scared to wear them outside the house. I was like, Those things were really expensive. Now I just look at them. That's probably the craziest thing ever. I did I feel slightly guilty about it. But no, I'm just not a flashy, flashy guy. I don't know if I ever will be. But if I did win the lottery, I would buy a new car. My Kia is in shambles right now. Would you get a Range Rover? I don't think so. I don't know.

He said he would never even walk.

I don't even know what car I would buy. Maybe a Toyota or something.

A Toyota, moving up.

There you go.

Malling out. All right, period.

Are you guys getting recognized a lot when you go out right now?

I haven't really gone out a bunch.

Yeah.

Have you met Paul?

I haven't. No, I'd love to.

Paul was at the reunion.

We tried to cross paths, but...

But he had to run home to baby. So I'm sure one day we'll.

From the girls, who are you closest with?

Casey and Ali, I would say. But I honestly, I've distanced myself from everybody. They're all great, but I feel like I'm in such a different place. Yeah, totally.

I know you guys don't want to talk shit, and I don't want you to talk shit. But we talked to Ali yesterday, and I think if you were made to look poor, she was made to look vapid. We had a nice conversation with her, and she seems pretty chill. She is. But who are the people who you felt like you should spend more time with them because I think their character on the show was a little more narrow than who they are.

Yeah, I mean, I think Ali and Casey, truthfully. I don't know. I mean, I feel like for the most part, a lot of people got pretty accurate representations.

Do you have anyone off the top of your head?

No, not really.

What is your opinion on Edmund?

I love Edmund. Yeah, I love Edmund. I think he's not a wordsmith, right? I say that about a lot of my cast mates. It's not a wordsmith, but he's so uniquely himself, and I love him for that. But yeah, we go running in the same park sometimes where he rollerblades, and it's just so funny. Sometimes I'll see him, What up, Ed? And he was like, One time, he's just like, What up, Jordan? Boom, fucking right on his ass. I love that man. He's so funny. Yeah, he's just himself, and that's what I love. He's hilarious.

What about Anton?

Me and Anton are working the same line of work. Semi-relatable. We don't really hang out that much. I see him here and there, but I'm the same. Just with my position as a dad, a lot of the group events I'm sure we're both invited to, I just don't make it.

Who plans all the group events? Is it just someone in your That's a great question. A pod group that's like, Hey, let's get everyone together?

I never really get invited.

I think it's the biggest difference between how you say it between you and Edmund. Anton. Anton, sorry. Is that you seem like the guy who's like, Yeah, I don't know, whatever. Fuck, I drink their drink of tequila.

Yeah, no, I would.

Then Anton always is like, Why you sound like you're lying?

There's always a little bit of like, Who gives a shit, man? Who colored on the wall? He's like, Not me, holding the crayons.

He's like, And I think you It's colored on the wall. Was it there?

Was it not there? It could have been you. I don't know. Do you not remember? It's like, are you what?

I don't know the thought process behind looking for a bottle of tequila you know is gone. He's like, You just said, I drink it.

You drink a lot.

I drink it, yeah. So let's get another bottle of shit.

What was the funiest or out-of-pocket thing that you all watched back, maybe from your peers, something you obviously didn't see?

Obviously, the Joe going in on nick at the... Oh my gosh. That was funny.

After the video.

God damn, Joe.

It might be someone's guy, it's not mine.

Someone asked me about what do you say about the chicken smoothies. I said, best fucking smoothie in the whole world. They ate my fucking smoothie. It's so funny.

It's like he just keeps going, though.

I think, again, this is filmed in another lifetime, right? So everyone's looking back being like, I wish I would have said that different. I would have did that different. And we've all matured quite a bit, I think. So This should definitely play out like a reality TV show, though.

You're a mom, so obviously life's busy for you, and you seem just content with everything. But back to there are a lot of opportunities that come with going on this show. Are there anything that either of you would be interested in trying out or hope that a door is open from this experience?

I think eventually I'd like to start a business of my own, another business of my own. To the Sparkle Megan point, I don't know. I'm sure there's something I could lean into. There's got to be a brand.

Yeah, truly.

Stickers, at least.

No, the tattoos, the Sparkle tattoos. You know what I'm talking about? The little henna ones, the fake ones?

Oh, yeah. Man, those are like a '90s throwback.

I know. Bring them back. Sparkle Megs.

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm sure something. Right now, I'm just happy to be a mom and focusing on my little guy.

What about you?

Yeah, I got to write a kid's book. Dear Yeah, inspired by my son and his strong emotional intelligence. We wrote the first one about being brave just due to what he has to go through with his diabetic treatments and stuff. I got these little brand deals or whatever, which has just been incredibly humbling. Also, I'm like, Wow, this is really fun to do and just to be creative and to have that outlet that I've always been looking for, just to be my regular Goofy self. Then if I could manifest anything, it's dancing with the stars.

Oh, sure.

I'll choose that over the Bachelor for sure.

You might have to go on perfect match for that.

Oh, yeah. I don't think I'm down.

Is there a partner that you would want to be paired up with?

I don't know anything about dancing. I'm not a star either. We'd call it dancing with the guys. Dancing with the simple guy.

I just think…

This is a simple guy. I like doing things that make me uncomfortable, and thinking about dancing in front of a bunch of people makes me very uncomfortable. But yeah, that's what I'm manifesting right now.

Where can people find the book?

Diraluca. Com, yeah, exclusively right now. But we are working with a book guy and very exciting. We do a lot of good things with the book. Just an amazing passion project. Again, I just wake up-Who is Ms. R? Oh, that's Ms. R, my fantastic business partner. She's been a teacher for 10 years, and she's just a subject matter expert in social emotional learning, which is just introducing emotions or talks about emotions as early as possible so we don't have guys punching holes in drywall anymore. We just wanted to to do something wholesome. Is that you? Yeah, it's based loosely on Luca and I. It is a boardbook, guys. I know people I've gotten some feedback saying it's really short. I'm like, Well, it's a boardbook. I don't know what What do you want?

Just out of curiosity, because you guys obviously have remained friendly, not that you guys are really in each other's lives, but to your point, none of your peers are operating that way who have been in relationships. Quite honestly, it's more uncommon to be doing what you guys are doing.

Yeah, we like being uncommon, though, I think.

But what do you think as individuals, why were you able to maintain that? Because I think a lot of times there's a hope, let's be cool, let's be cool, but then it only takes one shot fired or not even a rumor online, and it just gets messy real fast.

I just think a mutual respect. Like Jordan said, there was a while where we didn't speak, and I was a little hurt by that at first. I reached out to Jordan. It was probably 10 days after our supposed to be wedding date. Just, Hey, because I was having a really hard time. This sucks. Even though I ultimately made the decision to walk away, I was really struggling. I think just even the process as a whole, you're so in it and it's so intense. Then when you walk away from it single again and just from zero to or 60 to zero, you're almost like, what the fuck just happened? I had reached out to Jordan and realized I was blocked.

I did. I was also told I could process it however I wanted. That's what I did. I said, I got things I got to do.

Which was fair.

I knew- That wouldn't have been good for me. Then that would have just been a whole other-I was going to ask. Let's go get dinner.

There was no hookups after.

No, it was literally we-No.

I left.

We broke up and they were walking me down and said, I'm going to process this however I want it blocked.

Yeah. We had talked about, too, that week leading up to it because it's always the question, well, would we just not get married and then maybe continue to date?

It seems like a very logical It was an option. But it wasn't logical because I was in the same boat as during when we were filming. I think that was my response is, the reasons you're breaking up with me are still there, we're dating or not. Let's just call it and then move on one of our lives. I think I'm sure that was hard for both of us at the time, but look where we are now. I think we were able to move past it in this healthy, natural fashion.

Yeah, we weren't going to all those pod gatherings.

I don't think we saw each other, I think, one time between the time we broke up in filming. Then that was at a little get together. We just hugged each other and I think we just walked away pretty much.

Well, thanks for coming, guys.

Yeah, thanks for having us.

Is there anything else you all want to- Anything you want to go off your chest? I haven't.

Anyone else you want to talk shit about? No.

No. No.

Just very grateful for Jordan still.

Yeah, I'm grateful for you.

Well, yeah. Thanks for being so open and coming together. It's good to see you guys on such a healthy page. Yeah.

We are here being healthy and shit.

Are you going to introduce him to Bro?

Jordan? Yeah.

Sure. We get the opportunity. We've spoken about that. We're doing an offline little family dinner outing.

Yeah, I know. I told him I need to buy some books for Bro.

Well, you don't need to buy one. I brought you one.

Well, I look forward to finding out when you're in a relationship.

And on dancing with the stars.

And on dancing with the stars.

Maybe you'll... Be it. Go to the sun.

Maybe it'll be your dancing partner.

Who's single? Maybe it could be your dancing partner. Pull a globe.

Well, thanks for coming, guys. I appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. We'll see you tomorrow.