Transcript of Tucker Confronts Mike Huckabee on America’s Toxic Relationship With Israel

We're about to play you an interview we did with US Ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee, two days ago in Israel. In general, it's never worth talking about the backstory behind an interview. It's kind of not the point. It makes it about the interviewer, not the person being interviewed. For one thing, for another, it's not that interesting most of the time. And for another, it's kind of off the record. The other person hasn't consented to you telling the story. So in general, we don't do that. Who'd want to hear that? Let the interview speak for itself. But in this case, we want to tell you just a few things about how this interview came about, because they are pretty interesting, revealing, and now weirdly relevant, apparently. So this interview with Mike Huckabee came about a couple of weeks ago on Twitter. One of our producers showed me. He said something to the effect of, You're talking to Middle Eastern Christians, Tucker Carlson. Maybe you should talk to me. Why don't you come do an interview? And I paused for a minute. I've thought in the past about trying to interview Mike Huckabee, whom I've known for over 30 years and worked adjacent to at Fox.

And I had mixed feelings about it, mostly because it's hard if you're me to interview Mike Huckabee because of just the personal affect. Mike Huckabee is jovial, comes off as friendly, he's a grandfather. When annoyed, I can be nasty in interviews. And so it's, it takes a lot of self-control to interview someone like Mike Huckabee, not because I hate him, but because it's hard to ask him tough questions and not come off as a jerk, which I often am. So, but I thought in this case, yeah, I should definitely do this for a bunch of different reasons. Mainly, the United States is moving toward a big war, a real war with Iran, a regime change war. The biggest war we've had since the invasion of Iraq in the spring of 2003. And Israel is driving that. We are doing this at the behest, at the demand of the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. So it seems like now is the time for more Americans to understand the dynamic between the US and Israel and to call attention to that. And for another, Huckabee's behavior in the last year in Jerusalem as the ambassador has been very, very striking.

He famously had a meeting with the most damaging spy in American history. And why did he do that? He hadn't been asked by anybody up until two days ago, why did you do that? So I wanted to be able to ask him that. And so we accepted and then began the usual negotiations about when and where the interview would take place. And we were constrained because we weren't expecting this. We wanted to do it quickly. But we had tons of travel. So we threw them a date, them being the American embassy. We can do it on this date. And they were very accommodating. And then the question became, well, where do we do it? And maybe a Christian holy site. We said, We've got to get in and out really quick, got to be back to do a bunch of other interviews, but we've got this time frame. They said, well, why don't you do it at the U.S. embassy? Or maybe we said that. Great. U.S. embassy. So the U.S. embassy is about an hour, 55 minutes from the big airport in Israel, Ben Gurion. So we said, okay, what about security? Now, at this time, the Israeli government, the prime minister included, were attacking me in this show.

Netanyahu suggested I was a Nazi, for example. And so we thought, you know, how about security? Obviously, not because the Israeli government necessarily would do something bad, because there are a lot of people in Israel who think, because they've been told, that I'm an anti-Semite or a Nazi or want to kill Jews, this kind of crazy overstatement, all untrue, obviously, but it would be good to have security. And I should say, having done interviews on six out of seven continents over 35 years, I'm not very security conscious at all. Never really feel uncomfortable with this seemed like a prudent thing to do. So we were told by the embassy spokesman, no, we're not going to provide security. And so we said, okay, I guess we'll get private security, but could we get someone from the embassy to ride in the car with us from the airport to the interview? And we were told, no, could we get what they call a control officer, just an American, with us in an official capacity as a embassy employee with us. No, quote, for legal reasons, we can't do that. So I thought, well, that's very strange. And then they said, but instead we're turning you over to the Ministry for Foreign Affairs, MFA, and they're going to arrange everything in Israel.

Well, this was within 24 hours of the deputy foreign minister, Sharon Haskell, releasing a video calling me an anti-Semite and an enemy of Israel. This was the person who the embassy was telling us was going to handle all of our travel. So it was at this point that I just called. I called the spokesman from for the US embassy. In Israel. And I said, okay, I'm an American citizen responding to an invitation from the American ambassador to Israel. And by the way, I'm the son of a U.S. ambassador. So I have some sense, not an expert, obviously, but I have some sense of how this works. And I think that the U.S. ambassador has discretion to send somebody from his office to the airport to accompany someone in. I think that's right. And if it's not right, tell me what law you're talking about, what legal reason you're talking about that would prevent that. And now you're sending me over to a government official who's been calling me a Nazi. That's the person in charge of getting us to the embassy. Like, what is going on here? And the embassy spokesman, who's totally nice, said, well, this was the decision of someone called David Brownstein.

He's the DCM, the number two guy in the embassy. And I said, well, put him on a text exchange. Like, what is going on here? And so Brownstein got on. And didn't answer the question, but basically said, well, okay, let's just do the interview at the airport in the diplomatic reception area at the airport. Okay, I said. We're going to be flying in from Europe, and we had to be in and out really quickly. So at great expense, we chartered a plane, which I never do because I'm cheap, but we did. And so then I said to them, okay, I want to send you the flight information, tail number, flight number, route. And I want you to pass that on to the Israeli military just so, you know, they don't mistake us for an Iranian drone or something. I mean, not to be paranoid, but again, this is probably the most violent country in the world, Israel. Is there a country in the world where a higher percentage of the population has held a gun or shot someone? I mean, I don't know the answer, but this is a country famously waging a seven front war with all of its neighbors, you know, so this is also the country that bombed the USS Liberty, knowing, we know this from NSA intercepts, that it was an American ship.

So don't, you know, just send the military our flight information and, you know, we can all just sort of know it's on the record and we can all calm down a little bit. No, they said. The US Embassy said, no. This is, your flight is not a matter of concern to the Israeli military. I said, okay, now. Now you're making me uncomfortable. Isn't the airspace of Israel the purview of the Israeli military? Aren't they in charge of maintaining the integrity of their airspace? When you fly over the country of Israel or any country, its military keeps track of you because that's their job. So why wouldn't you send our flight information to the Israeli military? You're making me nervous. I sent this exchange, I took a screenshot of it and sent it to a bunch of people, including in the US government, because I'm not a paranoid person and I'm not a jumpy person. I said, Is this weird behavior? Yeah, it's really weird behavior. All of them said that. So I got pretty aggressive and just said, Look, you got to do this.

Okay.

And they, to their credit, got back to us and said, Yes. We will do that, but I just thought that was completely bizarre and menacing, by the way. Now at the same time, and I think this is relevant, certainly it goes to motive, I was attempting to set up a meeting, as I have been for the past three months, with the Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, who I've dealt with a lot in the past, and who denounced me as a Nazi in public, a member of the woke Reich. Why was I trying to do that? Not an interview. I knew he wouldn't sit for an interview, but I wanted just to meet with him in person. One, to show that I'm willing to go to Israel. I don't hate Israel as a country. But two, just to say directly to him, this is bad. This should be de-escalated. This kind of rhetoric doesn't help anybody calling people, calling me specifically, a Nazi and an anti-Semite when you know that I'm not. By the way, if I was, I would just admit it. I've said many times I think antisemitism is immoral. It's against my religion.

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And so I really pushed hard for this meeting and I called a lot of people who know him and who are in regular contact with him. In fact, I went to go see some of those people directly. Please, can you help me get a sit down for five minutes with Benjamin Netanyahu? And I probably called or met with six, seven, eight, maybe more people on this question. People in official capacities, people in the Israeli government, I know a number of people in the Israeli government, people in Israel, a friend of mine in California who knows him, I mean, I really, really tried. And I did so for two reasons. One, because there was a threat to my family, the Israeli government, and Netanyahu himself tried to punish two members of my family. I won't be more specific, but actually punish two members of my family because he has said in public many times, believes in blood guilt, Amalek. When someone commits a crime against you, you punish not just him, but his family, his bloodline. There's no idea that's less Western than that, more anti-Christian than that. Christians reject that. Netanyahu doesn't. That's why he's talking about Amalek.

And he was going after my family, literally. So I felt very threatened by that. But moreover, I think it's bad for my country to have people using that kind of language, round them up, bring them to the camps, gas chambers, Nazis, anti-Semitism. It scares the heck out of people. It makes people crazy and hysterical. And certainly in my case, none of that is true. I hate collective punishment. I hate attacking people on the basis of their bloodline. I hate antisemitism and anti-white racism and all of this or any kind of racism, period. And I've said that a lot. So using that kind of language against someone who is not fundamentally your enemy, who just in my case, I want Christians in areas controlled by Israel to be treated with dignity, to have rights, and I don't want the US government involved in a war, a regime change war with Iran. Those are my priorities, and I've said them out loud. I have no secret agenda. So to attack me as a Nazi for saying that suggests a total unwillingness to compromise. You know, anyone who doesn't agree with us 100% must be destroyed. His family must be attacked, my family, and must be written off as a Nazi.

Well, when you do that, it makes people hysterical. It increases the temperature to a point that, you know, someone's going to get hurt if you keep talking that way. And it's just bad. It's bad for the United States. It's bad for the world. So I wanted to deliver that message. I finally wound up, wound up talking to a guy called Yoram Hazony. Who is an Israeli who famously organizes the American National Conservatism Conferences. And I said to him, Look, you're having a National Conservatism Conference in Jerusalem this summer. You asked me to speak at the first, I think the first National Conservatism Conference in the United States. And I did, obviously, I believe in National Conservatism, America First. I think every nation should put its own people first. That's why you have governments. And I would like to speak at this one. And moreover, I would like you to ask your friend Benjamin Netanyahu to meet with me. And we had this sort of long back and forth. And it was, no, you cannot speak at the National Conservatism Conference because you're an anti-Semite. No, I'm not. I said, yes, you are. You said. And I said, well, I really would like to speak to Bibi to to kind of deescalate this.

And he said it would not be in his political interest to meet with you. It's almost verbatim what he said. Therefore, no. So then I realized, you know, you're dealing with people who are unreasonable, who are inflexible, who are in fact fanatical. And then add to that, of course, that my tax dollars are paying them. It's all pretty distressing. So that was the backdrop behind our very brief and highly intense trip to Israel. So we show up on Wednesday. Fly in from Europe, again at great expense, and show up at the diplomatic terminal at Ben Gurion Airport, where this interview is going to take place, which is bizarre in itself, filthy building. The windows are so dirty in the terminal, you can't see out them barely. There's exposed drywall. The whole thing is depressing and grim. There's litter outside. Like, what is this? This is the diplomatic terminal in Israel. I thought that was very strange, having been in a lot of diplomatic terminals, I've never seen a radder one. We go in and Huckabee's there. And of course, he's totally friendly, as he always is. Very, very friendly guy and cheerful, and we sort of chat.

And the whole place is filled with these guys in t-shirts, thuggish looking guys in t-shirts who are some kind of security. So we do the interview, you're about to watch it. It's very long at two and a half hours ish. And I try my hardest to be friendly. I think I kind of succeeded. You can judge for yourself, but I really got the sense. And again, you can decide as you watch it that Huckabee was not, well, able to answer any of the questions, but also not really in charge. He really got the feeling of a guy sort of trying his best to repeat the talking points, but very constrained, like unable to say certain things. Not because those things might harm the interest of the US government. He was happy to attack, for example, the US military and say they're more brutal than the Israeli military, okay, but unwilling to say certain things because they might reflect poorly on the Israeli government. And you sort of thinking about this for a second, you're like, wait, you're the US ambassador, you're our representative to a foreign country, Why is your red line criticism of that country?

Shouldn't you be representing us? And it was very obvious he was representing the Israelis. Obvious, and again, you can judge for yourself. But anyway, so we do this interview, it was cordial, and at the end, we're set to fly out. We have a time, we have to get out, and the plane is sitting right outside, and we're ready to go. And for some reason, the Israelis still have our passports. There are five of us there. And four of us are flying out on this plane. One's flying out commercial with our gear. So my business partner and I, sort of standing there, we've never left the airport, never went anywhere. But our two producers have spent the night before in Tel Aviv. And they're called into rooms and given the third degree. Now, keep in mind, they're about to get on a plane and leave. In fact, we're late. We have to get out of there. We have a slot to get out. And security, whoever this is, won't let them go. So I don't really know what's going on at this point. I'm like, Where are our guys? We've got to get out of here.

So one of them comes out and he says, that was the weirdest experience of my life. They asked me questions about the interview. Who did you speak to? Keep in mind, this was like eight feet from where we did the interview. Well, the U.S. ambassador. I'm like, Huckabee, what did you talk about? Why did you ask those questions? Was it a hostile interview? Of course, everything in the diplomatic terminal is taped. Everything in Israel is taped. It's a police state. It's a surveillance state. Obviously, you go to Israel, they put software on your phone. Everybody knows this. They're constantly spying on you more than probably any other country. And so they know the answers to these questions, but they're asking my producer, like, where do you work? How many people work there? Do you go to the office? Where is the office? What are their names? They're doing like an Intel op and humiliation exercise on my producer. This isn't security. We're leaving right now. And they're holding his passport. The interrogator is holding the passport in his hand as he's asking these questions. So he's telling me this. And I said, this is the most outrageous thing I've ever heard.

Puckabee's gone by this point. You're an American citizen who's just had a conversation with the US ambassador and some thug is demanding details of that conversation. And I hope you didn't answer. And he's like, no, I didn't. I don't know what to say. Meanwhile, our last guy, the youngest man who was traveling with us, our last producer, is still in a room being questioned. So I pull over one of the guys and said, we got to get out of here. So I don't know what this is about. It's outrageous. And there's nothing I can do about this point, but we got to go. And this woman comes up to me and says, Look, let's just go. We're going to bring you to the plane and he'll come later. I said, no, it's my producer. He's being interrogated, asked totally over-the-top, fully inappropriate questions that have nothing to do with security at all. Pull up your website, show us your text exchanges with other people on your staff. What are your politics like? And again, what did you say to the US ambassador and what did he say back to you? Those are not relevant questions if you're trying to keep your country secure.

Those are intel questions. And they're over the top. And I said, I want this guy out now. Let's go, we got to go. And they said, no, no, just leave him here. We'll bring him to the plane later. Twice they told me that, Just leave your guy behind. No, I don't think so. So I was enraged by this. Get on the plane, we get a text from a reporter who somehow knew that this had happened. I have no idea how. I had no interest in publicizing it, actually. There was, you know, a long trail that showed that the U.S. Embassy had been coordinating against us in a public relations battle before we even got there. They were leaking that we demanded to do it at the airport because we were afraid to go into Israel. We're cowards.

Okay, we're cowards. Right.

And so I just said to the reporter by text, they pulled my guys into a room, interrogating them. This is outrageous, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The interesting thing is I never heard from Huckabee or anybody to this moment from the US embassy about what security did to my producers. They didn't ask us. And instead Huckabee went out and called me a liar. So it raises again the question, who exactly is Huckabee working for? We're American citizens in a foreign country. He's our ambassador. He represents our country. We pay his salary, but he's taking the side of the foreign government without even calling to say, Hey, what happened to you at the airport? Did you get hassled? Did your guys get hassled? No. He just immediately repeats their lies without even consulting us. So like, what are we looking at here? We're looking at the reality, which is if you're an American in Israel, you can be certain that your government will take the side of the Israeli government and not your side. And really, is that so different from the experience of Americans in the United States? Can you be sure that your government will take your side over the Israeli government?

No, of course not. They will always take the Israeli government's side over yours. And that's the core problem. Even if you support a war with Iran, I think we really, the most pressing issue for Americans is that we kill the Ayatollah or whatever. You still have a fair expectation that your government, because it is yours, you pay for it, it exists to serve you and for no other reason, you have an expectation that your government will take your side against a foreign government. But the daily lived reality, the obvious truth visible to every single American is that's the opposite of reality. In fact, if you criticize Israel in your country, your government will work to censor you. If there's a standoff between you and Bibi, you know whose side your government's going to take. Bibi's side. That is not sustainable. That is too humiliating. It's too clearly an inversion of the natural order. Your government exists for you, not for a foreign government. But that's not how we live in this country or in Israel. So that's what we learned. And one last thing, the Israelis apparently went, probably with the help of Mike Huckabee went to the surveillance tape inside the diplomatic terminal and pulled some clip, of course, getting all their little bots online to promote it of me with my arm around somebody to show that actually I'm lying about what happened.

That person was our driver who drove us from the plane to the terminal, a short drive, very nice guy, good guy, Israeli guy. And right when we arrived and he said, Can I get a picture?

Of course.

He's a nice man. So I just put my arm around him and took a picture. That's what that is. That was before the interview. It was before our producers were hassled by the thugs and asked ridiculous questions. It was before any of this happened. So that's just another installment of the propaganda war. I thought we'd give you the backstory on that. People seem to be more inflamed, not just emotionally, but physically and more tired than ever. Food is part of the reason. Bad food tastes good, but not good for you. For most of human history, people ate actual food, stuff that your body recognizes. But now you eat a ton of chemicals. Paleo Valley is the solution to this. Paleo Valley's bone broth protein is made from, let's see, 100% grass-fed and finished beef bones. That's it. No fillers, no additives, no weird industrial byproducts. It's actual food turned into something you can consume every day. Most people use it the way we do. You blend it into a smoothie or coffee. The chocolate flavor is top tier. It actually tastes awesome. They also have vanilla and salted caramel. Plus, they make a savory original turmeric ginger in an unflavored version you stir into soup, rice, or even just mix with hot water and drink like bone broth.

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Thank you.

I was grateful, 'cause I don't like all the name calling. I've engaged in some of it. I want to apologize for that. But in general, I don't think people should be going immediately to motive, calling each other Nazis or anti-Semites. I said I hate the Christian Zionists. I lost control of myself. Of course I don't, I've apologized for that. I have problems with my anger, and so I just wanna apologize to you since you are a Christian Zionist.

You and I have known each other for over 30 years.

Over 30 years, that is totally true.

Back when you were in Little Rock, so, you know, the newspaper. Yes, that's why I wanted us to have a conversation, talk to each other and not about each other, and I appreciate very much your coming here to,

Of course, and I'm only staying a couple hours, unfortunately, because I kind of shoehorned this in, but I hope that I'll be back soon and I hope that I can come back soon, 'cause I wanna, I actually like, despite what you may hear, I actually like the country. I've been here a lot and there are a lot of things I love about it. And I wanna talk to people in it for like a week.

Good.

And get a better sense of it. So I wanna ask you, everyone I've talked to in preparation for this has said the same thing, Jonathan Pollard, I'm just gonna show the name to you and have you explain.

No, I'm glad you asked. You know, interestingly, There's been a lot of things about it. You're the first person who has asked me about it, which I find amazing. So I'm glad you did.

Really?

Yeah, the very first one.

Good. Well, it's better to hear it.

Sure. I met Jonathan Pollard two times. Once I was making a speech in Jerusalem. This has been a few years ago. His wife was still alive at the time and he was there. And someone introduced me to him and his wife. I said hello to them. That was it. Hi. Nice to meet Esther, his wife. And that was it. I went and made my speech and I left. Later, his wife passed away here in Israel. And I sent him a note and just said, I'm sorry to hear about your wife. I remember meeting her at the hotel and sorry to hear it. He then asked, could he come and see me? He wanted to come and thank me for being kind to him. He came to the embassy. I think we met for maybe 30 minutes. We had a nice pleasant visit. The funny thing was the New York Times reported that it was a secret meeting. Tucker, if you've ever been to the US embassy, you would know there's no such thing as a secret meeting at the US embassy.

Sure.

There are cameras everywhere. You walk through marines, you walk through security, you walk through the front office, and there's a dozen or more people that are gonna check you out when you come. And before you get there, you're gonna have to give us your passport information, you're gonna have to be vetted and screened in all of this stuff. So the idea that it was secret was ludicrous. The whole idea is, look, Jonathan Pollard did something that was terribly wrong. He sold secrets. He shouldn't have done it. He was sentenced to 30 years in prison and spent 30, actually, it was, I think, yeah, I think he was sentenced to maybe more than 30 years, but he spent 30 years in prison. Most people convicted of something similar which was one count I believe would have spent two to four, but he spent 30. I don't have a problem with him spending 30 because I think what he did was despicable. I'm not defending anything about what he did. But even people like the former director of the CIA, a number of other senators on the Senate Foreign Relations of the Senate Intel Committee said that he should be allowed to leave.

And moved to Israel if he wanted to. So it, to me, was not as big a deal that I had this basically courtesy meeting. He wanted to thank me for being nice to him when his wife died. That's pretty much the story.

You advocated for his release when you ran for, I remember it, in 2011, long before he had served 30 years. And I agree with you that there are a lot of people languishing in prison, you know, in our country and in this country, in many countries, you know, for longer periods than they deserve. And I think it's a Christian impulse to want to see them free. But this was the greatest traitor in modern American history who sold our battle plans against the Soviet Union, our main enemy in the Cold War, to the Israeli government, which according to our Reagan CIA director, Bill Casey, then gave them to the Soviet Union. So this was the most profound betrayal of the United States in my lifetime. Why advocate for that guy's release before he serves his full sentence?

If that were the case in 2011, it would have been because I had a number of friends that suggested that he had more than served time and he didn't want to live in the US anymore. He wanted to live in Israel. But my association with him, again, I had never met him until I met him in Jerusalem at a hotel. That was the first time I had ever encountered him.

I'm friends with a million bad people, or I've talked to a million bad people.

I'm sitting here with you. I mean, come on.

I mean, she's the same with tax collectors. So I, trust me, I am, do not judge people who are friends or know or enjoy the company of immoral people because it's not an endorsement of their immoral behavior. Pollard is different, I think, once you become US ambassador, the representative of the president of the United States, in the United States of America in a foreign country. And then you invite not only the most damaging betrayer in our lifetimes, but also a guy who continues to advocate for betrayal. So he gave an interview, as I know you know, in 2021 to Israeli media in which he said, I would encourage Jewish Americans with security clearances to spy for Mossad against their own country, the United States, because, and I'm pretty much quoting him, All Jews should have dual loyalty. That's a, I mean, that's not repentance. That's not someone who feels bad about what he did. That's someone who's encouraging American Jews to betray their country. That's pretty heavy, don't you think?

Oh, I do, and I disagree with that wholeheartedly. I think, let's remember, it was President Trump who probably facilitated his departure. And I'm certainly supportive of President Trump. I think you are.

Pollard's not, he called him a madman after your meeting.

That's why I say Pollard is not, for me, the real issue. It was the fact that he did something that was despicable. I'm not denying that. Of course he did. And he paid dearly for it, 30 years in prison, and he should have. That's what he should have done. No question about that.

Why meet with him in the US Embassy? Your colleagues said they were shocked.

They said, who were the colleagues that said they were shocked?

Quoted on background in the New York Times. I think the meeting was in August. This could all be fake. That's why I'm asking you.

Well, the same New York Times said it was a secret meeting. And I'm telling you, there's no such thing as a secret meeting in the U.S. Embassy.

Do you see why the U.S. Ambassador hosting a convicted betrayer of his own country who's encouraging Americans to continue to betray their country would seem shocking?

Well, I would say that it wasn't that I, You make it sound like I'm hosting a meeting. I simply met with him. I meet with people all the time.

Someone can just walk in without a-

no, they have to have an appointment. Of course they do.

Oh, so it is hosting him then, I think.

Well, I don't know if it was hosting, but it was certainly he was able to come to the US Embassy to have a meeting at his request. I did. And frankly, I don't regret it. I met with a lot of people over the course of the time I've been here and we'll meet with a lot more. That's it.

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It's the best. There have been Americans in prison in Israel. There have also been, and there continue to be, dozens and dozens and dozens of sex offenders, accused sex offenders from

the United States who fled to Israel,

including one recently, an Israeli government official,

who was caught trying to molest a 15 year old girl and fled to Israel and is going not back to

the United States to stand charges for attempted molestation of a child. Have you advocated for the Israeli government to return him to the United States? I'm not familiar with that case. It has not come to us at the embassy. So I'm not aware. Is this the person in Nevada? That is correct. Okay. I heard of the county. I would imagine so. Yeah, I heard about it, but I heard about it through open source media. It was never something that was presented

to us, but I would have no problem with him being extradited back to the US.

You're the president's and our country's representative

in the state of Israel, so I think it would fall to you to advocate with your friend, the prime minister, to say, wait a second, we have a very close relationship. We're obviously the single largest source of outside funding for this country. How can you take an accused child

molester and shield him from American justice send him back to the United States.

Have you ever had that conversation? No, because the prime minister would not be the proper person to write Israel. That may be right, Israel. Pardon my ignorance, but that would deal with an extradition. It would go through their court system. And so the prime minister is separate, very similar to what we have in the US, where there is a separation of powers. So it would go through something other than the prime minister. Have you advocated to the courts, to judges, to anybody in the Israeli justice system? There has never been a request for

me to engage in that. I would be happy to do it. If the White House sent a message to me, I do work for the president. I serve at his pleasure. If anyone at the White House were to say to me, would you please

go and make a case for it?

But probably if that were to happen,

it wouldn't come through the embassy as much as it would likely come from the Department of Justice at the U.S. in D.C. They would make the request. They might involve us, but they very likely would not. Does it seem strange to you that people accused of child molestation in the United States are allowed to have refuge within the borders of our closest ally? That doesn't make sense to me. Well, I would say that... If you've molested an American child, shouldn't

you be required to face justice? It's an allegation. Let's be clear, one of the things about our system of jurisprudence, you're innocent until you're proven guilty beyond a reasonable tumbled out. So if the charges are there, should he be extradited? I would say so. The charges are there. Yeah, okay, so they should be. But that's a Justice Department decision, and

they're the ones who should be pursuing it. To my knowledge, they haven't. They certainly haven't engaged the U.S. Embassy over.

Why would the Israeli government harbor fugitives from justice in the United States?

I'm not sure that- There are dozens and dozens and dozens of- In fact, there's an Israeli group that keeps track of them.

That is dedicated, Jewish Israeli group dedicated to combating the molestation of children and keeps a long list. And you can look it up and I would- Tucker, I hope you're not saying that you think the Israelis support the molestation of children. Obviously, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the Israeli government allows shields, shields accused child molesters from justice in Israel. I'm not sure I could say that that's something that is provable. I don't know, but I am not aware that the Israeli government is shielding people you obviously want to sleep well and fashionably. Brooklyn bedding can help. Here, TCN, we take sleep time seriously. Try to get eight hours. And a lot of the people here cannot help Rave about their Brooklyn bedding mattress. The first thing you'll notice about your mattress is how stable they feel. That's because they're built to last for decades, not just years. It's American durability. By the way, we, when we bring in a new advertiser, we Brooklyn Bedding sends stuff to the whole staff and people test it. And they love this. Brooklyn Bedding's founder built the company here in the United States from the ground up.

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a, and I just want to make

sure that I pronounce this, man's this name correctly. It's Tom, I believe, Alexandrovich. I think that's right. And I've written it down, but of course, my handwriting is so terrible, I can't read it. But yes, he is an Israeli, I believe, cyber security official who was at a conference in Las Vegas last year and was caught up in a sting designed to catch people soliciting sex from children. He was one of a number of people arrested for this, he was arraigned and charged. And then two days later, he fled

to Israel and did his first hearing by Zoom. He was allowed for some reason to leave for a foreign country, having already been charged for attempted molestation of a child.

And he remains here now.

And there have been many news stories about this.

And I just wonder if you would ask the Israeli government to put him

on a plane and send him back to face justice for attempting to molest an American child.

It doesn't seem complicated.

No, I wouldn't mind doing that, but I wanna find out if the Justice Department in the US has already sought to extradite him.

Is there anything in process? I don't know.

Why wouldn't they seek to extradite him?

I have no idea. That's a question for the Justice Department. I have many questions for the Justice Department. Like, why are millions of Epstein files still classified? Why do you think that is? I have no idea. I haven't kept up with that. I've never met the man, I don't know him. You haven't kept up with the Epstein disclosures? I mean only from a distance. I'm 6,000 miles away from DC these

days and I'm pretty sure that there's so much more to come. The current president of Israel, current president, who you know, President Herzog, apparently was at Peddow Island. That's what it says in the disclosures. And of course we know that the former prime minister Ehud Barak was living

on and off at Epstein's house. Still living high level Israeli officials are directly implicated in Epstein's life, if not his crime. So I would think that you'd be following this. Only I was not aware that there was any connection with President Herzog. I would be surprised to hear that and knew there was about the former prime minister who apparently had a lot of dealings with Epstein. Business dealings. And by the way, I I'm not alleging anything, but I mean, it's in, yes, in the Epstein files. And I don't know that I've heard the current president of Israel respond to

it, but he is listed as a visitor to PeddO Island. So that, that's kind of a big deal.

I wonder, con, considering there are so many suggestions in the files, as I'm

sure you know, of sexual abuse. And given that Jeffrey Epstein was a convicted sex offender, I wonder why the administration you work for would be holding millions of files, which I believe belong to the public, hidden for, quote, national security reasons. What would those national security reasons be, do you think? Honestly, I think you've probably got more

access to the White House sometimes than I do. You should ask them.

Well, but you're the government official representing that White House. In Israel.

And I represent the US in Israel to the Israeli government, from the US government.

Honestly, nobody has presented that to us.

Well, now that you know that. The dynamic situation here, I don't know if you know that or not, but there's a lot going on in this part of the world, and frankly, that has not been top line item. But you're surprised to hear that the

current president of Israel, whom you know, is listed as a visitor to PeTa Island. Had never heard that, never heard it even in the Israeli press. Are you going to ask him next

time you see him?

I'll be happy to. I talk to him almost every week. I guess what I'm asking is not simply as a representative of my government

or a high US official, but just as like a man and a father and a Christian, how could you resist

saying like, were you on Peddow Island with Jeffrey Epstein? Well, if I'm not aware of it. And secondly, there are a lot of

things that go on in the world. I don't question every single person about every single thing that may be a country. I understand all that. This is the first I've ever heard of this. So why do you expect me to have knowledge of something like that?

Well, because you attacked me personally for suggesting that Jeffrey Epstein had ties to

Mossad, and you said that- you- think he does? Well, it's very clear he does from

the- you- think he does? Where do you get that?

Well, the fact that he was contact in repeatedly with members of the Israeli

government, including the current president and the

former prime minister, and all kinds of Israeli Intel connected people. I'm not saying he worked for Mossad. I don't think we know that.

But there's no question that he had

extensive contact with CIA. I think you said a turning point event. Everybody knows Jeffrey Epstein.

I said everyone thinks. And it turns out everyone was right

that he did have. I'm not sure everyone was right or everyone thinks. Okay, but you said that I was

lying, and I don't want to make this about me. I don't think I said you were lying, Tucker.

I don't recall.

I'm just saying, Why don't we release all the files and then we don't need to guess?

I got no problem with that.

Go ahead. Would you call on it?

Well, because you weighed in on it and said that this was not true, when of course- I said there was no evidence. Well, there's quite a bit of evidence, but you haven't apparently bothered to read any of the files.

Is that what you're saying?

I have not read the Epstein files, apparently you have. Well, they're on the internet. But when you say that, Everybody knows that Jeffrey Epstein was a Mossad. Everyone believes that. I don't think everybody does. I don't know. Well, everyone knows that he had contact with, and by the way, not just Israeli intelligence, American intelligence, which is much more distressing for me. I'm not Israeli, I'm American. I don't want my government having any contact with someone like Jeffrey Epstein. So the shame- I wouldn't either. Is on the United States, as far as I'm concerned, just to be totally clear about that.

Everyone's very sensitive about the Israel connection, not at all sensitive about the US connection, which I find very revealing. We should care about what our government does first, I think. But since you weighed in on it and said there's no evidence, I'm surprised that since that evidence has been open to the public for a month, since you've already weighed in publicly on this question, that you've made no effort to evaluate that evidence. Why is that? I just told you, I was certainly not aware that there were some specific allegations. I knew about the former prime minister, but I don't know him.

I'm not sure I ever met him in my many times. You know, I've been to Israel over a hundred times since 1973. The first time I came here was 1973 July, and it's almost 53 years of coming and going to this country. So I know the country well. I know a lot of people here. But I don't know everything and I

don't know everybody, but I do know

a lot of people. Of course, no, and I can see

your love for it and I think that's great. But I'm talking about the US government and its responsibility to, there's a lot of complaint about conspiracy theories and everyone, he's a hater, everyone's a signing motive. But there's a way to end these

conversations very quickly with facts.

And I'm highly confused by- have you

brought this up to the president?

No, I don't work for him. I've said this many times. I know you don't work for him, but you go to the White House and you see people there. You and J.D. Vance are very good friends.

So have you brought this up to them? I have brought this up in public meetings. It's not on my portfolio, but apparently

it's highly, very strongly on your mind

and I'm not sure why. Child molestation is a significant concern for me.

Should be for everybody. But if you- well, there's an, there is a charged child molester. But I'm saying if you are very involved in the details of this, I'm

not, and you think it's the US government that's hiding and shielding somebody, then bring it up to the people that you personally know. Oh, I don't think that, I know

it, because the Justice Department has said we have millions of documents we're not releasing.

Why are they not releasing them? I'm asking you as a US government official, well, but what the answer is- I'm a government official. At the embassy in Jerusalem that has not one thing to do with the Justice Department and what they're investigating on any given day. Unless it involves Israel. And I don't want to argue or talk in circles, but you were the one who brought it up and said it's absolutely not true.

I was only responding to what I've heard you say. Okay, but now that you know there's evidence and we can settle this debate,

you haven't looked at the evidence. you're And not pushing for the release of the total corpus of evidence. And I'm confused because I want to believe that your goal is to get to the truth. And the fastest way to do that is by releasing the evidence.

Do you think you suggest that I can release the evidence?

I'm suggesting that you could call for it right now. Well, fine, call for it. Let's have it all open. I thought it was being all opened up for everything. Once it's open, I hope you'll read it because it's really interesting and then it puts to rest a lot of the debate and it ends the name calling because we can say, here it is right there. And we don't have to call people names, we can just assess the documents. Let me ask you- Would you bring it up?

I hope you will bring it up to people at the White House that-

oh, I've brought, I've brought- I'm bringing

it up right now.

I'm bringing it up now and I'm

asking, I just wanna say this one last time, as the US ambassador to Israel, I hope that you will make a formal request to the Israeli government send to every accused sex offender in

this country back to the United States to face justice. And I don't understand why that hasn't been done. I'm confused. Well, we'll try to clear up all the confusion that we have. Well, if someone's been accused of trying to molest a child, I think it's-- Then certainly, and I'll check with the Justice Department because it is a DOJ issue and it would be handled through DOJ, the US, to the court systems in Israel. That's how it would be handled. But the first step is the Israeli government saying, yes, we will allow you to extradite this person back. The person is being shielded by the government. That's why the person's here. That's why he fled here so he wouldn't have to stand trial for trying to molest a child. I want to get to the, as I said at the outset, I said something awful that I regret that my wife barked at me about. lashed I out at Christian Zionists and evangelicals. And I just want to say again that I'm sorry. I've always liked them because they're pro-life and they're also really nice people. So for the third time, I'm sorry that I said that.

I think part of my problem was I don't understand the theology and you are not a fake Baptist minister. You're an actual minister. You had a church for many years. You're an actual theologian. So And I mean this with sincerity. I hear people say, those who bless Israel will be blessed. I know it's a reference to Genesis.

I don't understand the connection between that concept and modern Israel and the geopolitical world. And so I'm going to stand back

and- Let's first define because, you know, from my days as a debater in high school and college, one of the

things I knew you didn't start the debate till you define the terms. Amen.

Let's define the term.

Thank you.

What is a Christian Zionist? Okay. What does that mean to you? What does it mean? I don't know. It's the people who call me a Nazi for asking what Israel means. I mean, that's kind of my point. I don't even know. But here's the point. If you say a Christian Zionist is a person who has a brain virus and is guilty of heresy, that's a pretty big charge. I know, I shouldn't have made it. I shouldn't have made it. I made it out of anger and ignorance. So, and I'm- Christian, I think we can agree as somebody who follows Jesus Christ. Exactly. Has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, believes in his death, burial, resurrection, has repented of one's sins, and have accepted

him as one's savior. Would that be fair? Exactly.

Define that.

Zionist. A Zionist simply means a person who

believes that the Jewish people have a right to have a homeland where they

have security and safety. Did you believe that the Jews have a right to live in Israel? Do you believe that Jews have a right to live in Israel? That would be a Zionist, that's all a Zionist is. I have a million questions about what all of those terms mean. But conceptually, I wish Israel no harm. I don't want to see them very- Do you want them to have a place where they can live? With safety and security? Let me add, so I saw this recently in an extremely telling exchange between the Lieutenant Governor of Texas, who I know and have always liked, and a woman I don't know, never met, who's on the Religious Liberty Commission or something.

And she said, I'm a Catholic, but I'm not a Zionist. And they had this ferocious exchange. And he kept saying, and everyone on the panel seemed to keep saying, you have to believe in Israel's right to exist, which I've never kind of questioned just for the record, but it did raise two questions I think are really important, and I hope you'll answer them. One is, where does that right come from? I would say it comes from, essentially, you could say it comes from the Bible. I would say that it does. But it comes also from a long iteration of historical precedents going to the Balfour Declaration of 1917, It comes from the League of Nations 1927, it comes from the United Nations 1947, the Declaration

of Independence of the Israel state in May of 1948. They were immediately attacked, they won the war, they were attacked again in 1956,

they won the war, they were attacked again in 1967 by five countries, they won the war, they were attacked again

in 1973 in the Yom Kippur War, they won the war. The point is, does Israel have a right to exist?

They also had wars in 1982 in Lebanon.

They've had De Fattas, two of those. They've had Lebanon in 1948. I was there. No, I'm very familiar with the modern

history of the state. Pretty familiar, I think. But a Zionist simply means somebody who believes that Israel has a right to exist. Now the question is, do you believe Israel has a right to exist? I guess, I mean, I want Israel to exist.

Well, no, but I want to know what that means. So like, do other countries have a right to exist? Well, they do exist. Do they have a right to exist? You keep saying Israel has a right to exist.

And I want to know what other countries have a legal right. They have a legal right because every international body in the last 100 years has said the Jewish people have a right to their indigenous home. I understand my question. So that's a legal right. Do they have a biblical right? I would say that yes, but you may say they don't. I don't know. I'm actually sincerely interested in finding out what you mean by a biblical right. But first to the legal right, does any other country on the planet have the same right that Israel has to exist? Well, you could say, does Jordan have

a right to exist when it was

Transjordan and the Brits came and divided up the Middle East and they gave some land to Jordanians and they gave some land to the Saudis and they gave some land to various Middle Eastern countries and it was all carved up.

And the French gave Lebanon its right to exist. Do they have a right to exist? Do they?

Well, why not?

Okay, so that's my, so every country- Do the US have a right to exist? I'm asking you. Okay, and I'm telling you, I think

the US has a right to exist. Okay. We came here, we came there, we're in Israel now talking, but does the US have a right to exist? Does anyone question whether we have a right to exist? I don't, yeah, but, But of course I'm for America, you know.

Good for you.

So every current country on the map

has the same right to exist that Israel has. Is that what you're saying? I think what we're saying is that when a country has established itself and it is following international law, it has

been deemed by numerous bodies that it is indigenous to its homeland as Israel is.

This is its homeland. It goes back 3,800 years to the time of Abraham. It's not that- well, hold on.

Now I'm getting- the Jewish people just showed up here in 1948 and said, we're gonna have some land. Hold on. So those are two different tracks and I just wanna make sure that we separate them so I understand each one separately.

All right. So you're saying there's the modern legal framework and so you said a country that abides by international law has a right to exist. I would say that that is a part Would the inverse be true that a that country does not abide by international law forfeits its right to exist? Not necessarily if it has the capacity to stay and make its case known. But there have been Jewish people in

this land- okay, but that's the very land- for 3,800 years. Okay. But you're saying as the modern nation

state with borders and a military and a Knesset and just all the trappings

of a modern country, all of which I support. That country has, every country on the planet has the same right as Israel to exist because it does exist. Is that what you're saying? I'm just trying to understand the concept here. Well, I think what we're trying to

get to is Christian Zionism, and you've taken this way off the road here. I know that I have, I don't mean to. Christian Zionism is a separate thing, but I just keep hearing people say, Zionism is the belief that- that's the fundamental

argument that's going on. Does Israel have a right to live

in their indigenous, ancient, historical land, a land that has been affirmed throughout international organizations, a land that has direct ties to the Jewish people? I just want to know if this

is a universal principle, I guess that's what I'm getting at, because if it's

not, then it's meaningless to me, because as a Christian I believe in universal

principle, something is right for everyone or it's wrong for everyone. We don't believe in special cases. But here's the question. If the Jews didn't have this land, would the Jews have a right to any land? I don't know. I'm not attacking the Jews. I'm asking if this applies to every people and every nation.

Does every nation have the same right

to its own homeland, to its own physical land that you say Israel does?

I feel like we're in a rabbit hole here. No, I think it's a very straightforward question. No, but does that right extend to other countries other than Israel? But the most important thing that is going on in our culture right now is whether or not the people that are yelling in the streets from the river to the sea, whether that that's a legitimate point of view to say that there should not be a Jewish homeland, there should not be a Jewish state. I'm not a Jewish state. You'll never hear me say that. I just want to know. I know you haven't said it, but that's the argument. One of the arguments going on globally in the United States, excuse me, has Pretty narrow view, I would say in our media culture, what's happening around the world.

There are plenty of countries having this debate. Stonehenge is a lot older than the

first temple in Israel. And it was built by the same people who live there now. It's the same people. And they are being pushed off their island and outnumbered by people from other places. And so in Great Britain, in Ireland, which is also a country with a nation of people, a race, if you will, that is being displaced, replaced.

Who are they being replaced by? Immigrants.

Okay.

From other places. I just wanted to clarify, 'cause I was one of the- well, just as a demographic matter, it's just like you can look at the numbers, it's not controversial, just look at the numbers.

There'll be a minority in their country,

and their people have been there longer than Jews have been in Israel. And so they're having this debate too, that's all I'm saying. And lots of places are having this debate. Sure. So does that principle apply to everyone? Or is it specific just to Israel? I think it applies specifically to Israel. It applies to anyone who can prove that they have some connection to the land and connection to the history and connection to international law. But Israel, I think, does have an excuse. I think we're bringing up international law. So if, again- But let me finish this, yes, sir. Because here's the point. We're talking about Christian Zionism, the idea that as a Christian, I believe in both the Old and the New Testament. Why wouldn't I? Of the book. There are 80 million evangelical Christians in the United States. What makes us who we are is our adherence to the scripture. Our belief that the Bible, all of it, not part of it, but all of it, is the word of the living God. Yeah. So if I believe in the Old and the New Testament, I do believe that there is a very specific call to the Jewish people that started with Abraham and he called them out of what is now modern day Iraq, said,

Come where I send you. He came, this is the land.

Genesis 12:3, he says, I will bless those who bless you, curse those who curse you.

In Genesis 17, he looks out at

the world, he says, Look, and this

is where I'm giving you land. the I think it's since that time there have been people living in this land connected to that moment of history. So there is a historical connection that's not even broken. I'm not even broken. You've said that and I wanna ask you what that means a little more specifically if that's okay.

But first let me just say that you could say the same thing of Britons who've been in their land longer. Is anybody trying to tell the Brits, the Brits, they can't live there anymore?

No, what's happening is- But they are

saying that to the Jews. Okay, okay, but I just wonder if you would extend the same sympathy or the same principle.

You seem like this is, you think I'm trying to trap you, I'm not. At all trying to trap you. It'd be as simple as saying native Britons have the same problem with the native Brits having their land. Having the right to take that off the table. And I think there's still a basis for the Jews having this little bitty strip of real estate. And it is a, I'm not even arguing with you.

I'm just trying to at all. I'm just trying to understand what it is that you're saying. Saying, because it's not obvious to me and maybe it's an IQ problem, but I'm having trouble understanding this. But let me just go back to just clarify one thing. You've brought up international at least twice, maybe three times, as a basis for Israel's legitimacy. If Israel was out of compliance with international law, whatever that is, would it be less legitimate?

Depends on if the law and the way it's applied is legitimate. There are some applications of so-called international law that are not legitimate.

I agree. Look at the ICC or the ICJ. I agree. I agree.

Utterly ridiculous. One of the reasons I'm so grateful

President Trump and Secretary Rubio are pushing hard trying to get rid of the ICC and the ICJ is because they have become rogue organizations that are no longer really about an equal application of law and justice. I don't know enough about it to say if that's true or not. But I just, I'm interested that you yourself appeal to international law as a basis of Israel's sovereignty. Well, what I'm looking at is the

whole of the last 100 years. The Balfour Declaration is not exactly international

law, by the way.

It was a letter, I think.

It was maybe not law, but it was a declaration. It was an assumption and a declaration that was done by Lord Balfour in Great Britain at that time. This land was under the British mandate. And he said that Jews should have the land that was theirs from 3,800 years ago. It was simple as that. Right. And I'm not debating that. It was not international law. It was a colonial power saying, okay,

we're going to divide up the national law under the League of Nations, under the United Nations. And then because of the victories that

Israel had against those who tried to annihilate them, And it wasn't just that

they were trying to take a little piece of their land, they tried to annihilate them. And there is still to this day, the shouts of from the river to the sea. And Tucker, that means only one thing, not the shrinking of Israel, but the annihilation of Israel. I don't think you can say that you know what it means actually, because you don't know what's in people's hearts. So why don't we just deal with the facts? Maybe some people mean it. I know what's in their mouths. I know what's in their minds. But I'm not, look, you'll never hear me say that. What you will hear me say is I'm confused by what the definitions are. So let's go through this. You've appealed to Genesis. Genesis 15 says, it's Abram, it's pre-Abraham,

it's Abram, receives from God the news that his descendants will inherit the land.

And you tell me as the theologian, if I'm getting this wrong, but from

the Euphrates to the Nile. I think that's right. And that would include basically the entire Middle East. That would be the Levant, so that would be Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon. It would also be big parts of Saudi Arabia and Iraq. It would be, I mean- I'm not

sure it would go that far. I mean, it would be a big piece of land, but here's the point. It would be a lot of places that are now countries. But this particular area that we're talking about now, Israel, is a land that God gave through Abraham to a people that he chose. It was a people, a place, and a purpose. We can look at it that way. Christian Zionism, I want to go back because that's where we started on this. I'm not going to let you off on this because you have said it three times that God gave this land to this people. And so it is entirely fair for me with respect to ask, what land are you talking about? Because I just read Genesis

as I have many times.

And that land, I think it says,

from the Nile to the Euphrates, which

is once again, basically the entire Middle East.

So God gave that land to his people, the Jews, or he didn't.

You're saying he did. What does that mean? Does Israel have the right to that land? Because you're appealing to Genesis. You're saying that's the original deed. It would be fine if they took it all, but I don't think that's what we're talking about here today. What would be fine, what's exactly what we're talking about today? But here's what I don't think you're-

I think it would be fine if the state of Israel took over all of the land. They don't want to take it over. They're not asking to take it over. But you're saying that the reason that Israel is legitimate, has this inherent right to exist is in part because God gave it to his people.

And I am going to the same Bible that you're referring to and noticing that that is a huge piece of land. So if God gave them that land, then they have a right to take it now by your definition, unless I'm missing something.

I think you're missing something because they're not asking to go back to take

all of that, but they are asking

to at least take the land that they now occupy, they now live in, they now own legitimately, and it is a safe haven for them. May I ask though, because you're explaining what Christian Zionism is in your theological And I think you just said it would be fine with you if the state of Israel took all of Syria, all of Lebanon. That's really not exactly what I'm trying to say. I'm asking, is that what you said? I thought that's what you just said. It was somewhat of a hyperbolic statement

in that, you know, if that's what you feel like that we're talking about, but it isn't. We're talking about this land that Israel, the state of Israel, now lives in and wants to have peace in, they're not trying to take over Jordan, they're not trying to take over Syria, they're not trying to take over Iraq or

anywhere else, but they do want to protect their people.

And they're not trying to take over Lebanon. But you're saying that as a religious man, as a Christian, a Christian Zionist, you agree with a lot of religious communities here in Israel that the Justification

for this country is theological. It's a contract between God and his people. And I'm telling you that that contract includes a tract of land that is much larger than the current nation state of Israel. So you may be a bigger Zionist than even the Jews are that live in Israel. I'm trying to understand the implications of

your theology for geopolitics. Because you're saying that the present government of Israel has a moral right to take over what are now other people's countries. No, I didn't say that. Then what are you saying? I'm simply saying that the people who live in Israel, I think, have a right to have security, have safety, they have a right to be able to live in this land that they have a connection to for 30- I told myself when I said a prayer that I would not get annoyed, but as someone who is the father of daughters, when I see child molesters, hiding in Israel and escaping American justice, I think I have a right to safety in my country too. So you can understand that, I think

most people feel they have a right to safety. I do think Israel has a right to safety and I hope that for them.

And I'm sincere, but I'm an American

and I have a right to safety in my country too. Of course you do. Of course you do. And I think, but I just wanna get to this point. If Israel were to say, If God gave us in Genesis 15 all of Lebanon, all of Syria, all the way up to Iraq, would that be legitimate in your view? I don't think in this particular day and time, they're asking for it. Would it be legitimate?

I'm not sure that it would be. Why? Because you just said that God gave it to them. Well, God gave it to them. Because I think that there is an understanding that the people of Israel today, now if they end up getting attacked by all these places and they win that war and they take that land, then okay, that's a whole nother discussion. But you and I started out with the whole nother discussion. We started talking about something simple, Christian Zionism. But it turns out it's not that simple. And now you- Because I don't, the core of Christian Zionism, you said, and I'm quoting you, is the understanding, the belief, the theological understanding that Jews have a moral and legal, we went through the legal biblical, moral deriving from the biblical promise is in our Bible, which we share with the Jewish people, the first part of the Old Testament, that it derives from God's promise to the Jews. And so I have two questions. What are the borders of that? And who are those people in 2026? And you're not the first person I've asked, but you're the most reasonable, most gentle, most theologically informed a warm person, so I'm really hoping for an answer.

The first question was the borders. I can't get an answer. Yeah. Those borders are.

So I'm going to give up. But the second question is every bit as pressing, which is who are the people? Who are the modern? Yes. Who are the descendants? So we know, and I believe, and I agree with you as a Christian, that God promised this land from modern day Iraq to modern day Egypt to this people, the Jews. To Abram's, actually not to Abram's descendants, as it says in Genesis 15. Who

are his descendants now and how do

we know who they are?

I think they're the Jews and we know who they are because they've always been a Jewish people. There has been an unbroken line of Jewish people and they've lived in this land for 3,800 years, sometimes not very many of them, 'cause they were chased out all over the world, they were hunted down, they were almost annihilated during the Holocaust, They came back to this day, Tucker, they represent, you know how many Jews there are in the whole world? Hold on, please. I understand. First of all, the greatest genocide of Jews no one ever mentions was by the Romans, where they were literally banned from Jerusalem for 500 years. Yeah, of course. And it is all awful. And I am opposed to all of that. I am opposed to mass killing of anybody, period. I am opposed to- Do you hear you say that? I mean it. And I hope you agree on that. I believe that. My question is, and it's not a bumper sticker answer, it's a sincere answer, how do we know? Because what you're saying is that certain people have a title to a highly contested region. They own it in some deep sense.

So I think it's fair to ask, who are they and how do we know? So the current prime minister's ancestors weren't from here within recorded history.

He has no deed. Bibi Netanyahu on one side is family from Poland, they're from Eastern Europe.

So how do we know that he has a connection to the people who God promised the land to, Abraham's descendants? How do we know that? Well, if you take the genealogies that come not only from the Old, but the New Testament, you see that there is a historical connection through the entirety of the Old and the New Testament

that details the Jewish connection to this land. Does that include Bibi's family? How do we know that if his family were scattered, But how do we know it's the same people?

Why

is that crazy? If you say to me, if they speak the same language, if they worship the same God, if they follow the

same Bible, if they follow the same cultures and traditions, and they always pray next year in Jerusalem, and they pray

for the peace of Jerusalem, and they pray facing toward Jerusalem, does that not

give you a little bit of a clue as to who they are? Well, let's go through those things, because I would like to have a rational, this is a conversation. I've wanted, bless you, thank you for doing this. Let's just go through those things. Okay.

So one of the things I admire most about Israel is they resurrected a dead language in 1948. Good for them. Well, they really didn't resurrect it. It was existent. Okay. I'm not, that's not a compliment, I'm not slighting. No, no, no, but it is the first time in all of human history that a language has survived through this length of time. It's, I would call it, you might not, but I would call it, a miracle. One of many.

Okay.

That you can get into this. I think it's wonderful, as someone who loves language, Netanyahu's parents did not speak Hebrew. Okay? They didn't live in this region. Netanyahu, the founders of this country were mostly secular. Some of them were avowed atheists.

They were not praying for the peace of Jerusalem. They weren't praying at all because they didn't believe in God. There's no genealogy linking their families to the people of this land 3,000 years ago, they're none.

So how do we know since they didn't share a language, they didn't share a religion, they had no religion whatsoever, how do we know that they had a right to come here from Eastern Europe? But they were scattered- They took the land. They were scattered to different- They were scattered all over the world. There were many in Ethiopia, they were in Russia, they were in Poland. They were throughout Asia. Jews were all over the place, but they were still Jews. They were still Jews. Okay, let me get to the nub of the question, since again, a lot is at stake. A lot of money is at stake. Land is very valuable. Israel has a lot of resources.

By the way, if you're accused of a crime, you can hide here. That's pretty good passport to have. It's a good thing, right? So who's entitled to it? I don't understand, and you're very discouraged

in the United States from asking this

question for some reason. Totally rational. I'm not discouraging. You're not discouraging others do. You're like the only person I can

have this conversation with.

Deborah will be like, shut up Nazi. It's a foundational question. Are you speaking of an ethnic group or a religious group? Well, I think you're looking at, for

many people, it is religious. There are people who may not have

a deep religious connection to Judaism, but they're still Jews. Okay.

So it's an ethnic category. It is ethnic, but it is also religious. It is rooted in religion. You can't take it out of it. Now that means that- Then how can an atheist- well, I will tell you this. There are some people who say, I'm Christian. They never go to church, they never pray, they never read their Bible, they don't tithe. But they're not entitled to citizenship on the basis of that. They're not entitled to citizenship. They still call themselves Christian even though they identify as atheist. Okay, but wait, here's the difference. You're saying that people who have this, identification have a deed to a huge

chunk of land on the Mediterranean. Okay? So there's, you know, it's a right.

You keep telling me it's a right.

And so it's totally fair to say, if you come to my house and

say, I've got the title to your house, I get to ask, may I see it? Where'd you get it? And that's exactly what happened here. People from Europe, Eastern Europe came here, in a lot of cases, atheists. And kicked out a lot of people who lived here. They bought land. They did not just throw people out. They bought a lot of land, there's no question about that. But they also, in 1948, kicked out a lot of people. And the war. It was a war, I agree. Look, I'm not, I don't want to re-litigate the history.

I'm just saying it's fact, a including a lot of Christians, a lot of Christians wound up fleeing and they lost their homes and they've never been allowed back. And all of this was justified on the basis of this identity that forms, that is the ticket to the right that you keep referring to.

So my question is very simple, I'm

gonna wait patiently for an answer. Does this right derive from religious affiliation or from genetics?

And I would say it's both. But I would also say that when

you said the Christians were kicked out,

Tucker, Christianity is growing in Israel. Okay, but, and there is a big lie that goes out there, but let me finish this because I keep hearing that Christians are really not treated well in Israel.

That's simply, that's a lie. Well, there are lots of different- It is a lie. There are lots of different- There are 34,000 Christians in Israel in 1948. There are 184,000 Christians here today. And by Israel, what are you counting?

You're talking about the land? What territory, are you counting? You're talking about Israel proper? Are you counting the West Bank as well? In Gaza? When you say Israel, those numbers apply to what land mass? It would be in Israel proper. Okay. There are 184,000.

Now, I'll tell you where Christians are not doing very well. They're not doing very well in the Muslim controlled countries.

There's almost no Christians in Qatar, for

example, except those who live in the

Christian ghetto who are the service workers. I'm sorry, I don't want to argue with you. There are many more Christians in Qatar than there are in Israel. That's not true. It actually is true.

And I refer you to Wikipedia, Mr.

Ambassador. Wikipedia. I refer you to the government of Qatar, the government of Israel. These are noble facts. And I'm- In Jordan, by the way- the numbers are down in Syria, the numbers are down in Lebanon. They're just telling you that- About twice as many Christians- But they live in the enclave. They are not native Qataris. Okay, we're mixing so many different categories here. I'm just saying, I get things wrong all the time. You've just gotten something wrong, and I think it's important to acknowledge it. There are many more Christians in Qatar than there are in Israel, in fact. How many? Now you caught me. I don't know. I could look up my phone, but I was just there and there are many more.

Like whatever.

But I just want to get to the point that forms the basis of this whole conversation, which is who has a right to the land? And you said it's a mixture of religion and ethnicity. Because as I noted and you agree, many of the founders, maybe the majority of the founders of modern Israel did not believe in God at all. So they were not religious Jews.

They weren't religious at all. They were atheists. They said they were atheists, I believe them. So that suggests it's ethnic.

But it's also true, as you well know, because there's a famous court case

about this, that ethnic Jews who convert to Christianity do not have the right of return. That was settled by the Israeli Supreme Court. I'm very confused. So that would suggest it's not ethnicity

because you invalidate your Jewishness by converting to Christianity? There are a number of Messianic Jews who live in Israel. I'm aware of that number. But you're not contesting what I'm saying because it's a very famous court case. The right of return has to do

with your mother, your grandmother. It has to do with family ties. There's a lot of, sure, ethnicity is

a big part of the right of return. To make Aliyah to come to Israel. Then you live here?

Then if both of your parents are Jewish and you have an ethnic right to land, you are one of Abram's

descendants, but you convert to Christianity, how

is it you don't have the right to return?

I'm totally confused.

But I know a number of people who have returned as Christians, but have Jewish history. Are you saying that Jews who convert to Christianity have a right, a legal right, to return, because I know that they do.

When you say, do they have a right to return? Do they prove? It's a legal category as in any government. Which is by their family history, their

grandmother, their mother, and there are many aspects of that. I've read it, I think it's a very interesting book. But I know that these are people who are Christian, and they came here,

made Aliyah, they had Jewish blood, Jewish history, they were Christian, Messianic, but they came here and they were welcomed here. And they were given full legal rights.

Absolutely.

And a passport. So clearly it's not true that you invalidate your right of return by converting to Christianity. That's just false.

I'm not aware of that. I know that there are a number of Christians here. I go to church with Christians every week here. Of course. And there's a lot of them. So you have a right to come and say, I am an ethnic Jew, Even though I practice Christianity, therefore I have every bit as much right to move into a settlement in the West

Bank or into East Jerusalem or anywhere I want, Galilee, anywhere, because I am returning to the land of my forefathers, I have a legal right in the state of Israel, even though I've converted to Christianity. You're saying that's true?

I'm saying I know people have done it.

Now, can I tell you what the law specifically is? I'm not sure, because- well, it's really specific.

I'm a Christian.

I don't have any Jewish roots.

So therefore, I cannot quote you the law.

If you want me to do that, I'll look at it. Well, it really matters because you're saying,

in fact, people in the United States

are being called anti-Semites, a lot of them, including me, because they somehow don't

believe that Israel has a right to this land.

Do you think Israel has a right to this land?

No, you haven't defined what the land is and you haven't defined who Israel is. So I really don't know. It is the they're land living in now, the borders that they have. The borders are moving. The borders have moved in the last year.

What do you mean the borders have moved? Well, they are the 1967 borders. I'm including, you know, the West Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria. What are the borders of Judea and Samaria? Well, you basically take the Jordan River and it's west of the Jordan River.

To the Mediterranean Sea, to the Lebanon border. And Israel did have control of the Sinai.

They gave that to Egypt. They had control of it. No, no, I gave it away in 1979 in the peace agreement.

But whatever you call it, the land that was taken from Jordan in 1967,

you call it Judea and Samaria, there's

a significance to that that I don't fully understand.

I'm against it. It's the biblical. I don't know what it means. It's the biblical. 80% of the Bible happened in Judea and Samaria. But we've also established that the Bible gives Jews the right to occupy the land from the Nile to the Euphrates. So I'm very confused by why we've shrunk the land and why we're- Israel has shrunk the land.

They have made that decision. That's why they gave away the Gaza Strip.

Now's the part for giving away a lot of things. Abram's descendants are the ones who have the right to have this land, correct? Yes.

Okay.

Why don't we genetic do testing on everybody in the land and find out who Abram's descendants are?

It's really simple. We've cracked the human genome.

We can do that. Why don't we do that? Would you be against doing that? I have no idea what that would prove. I mean, maybe it would be. What do you mean?

It would prove who Abram's descendants are and who has a right to live here and who doesn't, according to the theology that you yourself just explained.

And so I'm very confused as to why we don't do that. If you believe the theology that you've just explained to me. Would we do that all over the world? And everybody would be great. This is the only country in the world that you've said has this covenant with God, that this people have a moral and legal right to the land. What about people who convert to Judaism? Would they have a right? Well, you've just, you've just said that they can't. I mean, there are converts to Judaism, so you just told them. They can make Aliyah, they may not have been told. You've just told me. That it doesn't matter. You told me moments ago, trying to keep track, that it doesn't matter whether or not you believe in God or whether or not you practice Torah Judaism or rabbinic Judaism, which is something else that I don't even know if we should, I don't even know what that means. But it doesn't matter whether you're, quote,

a religious Jew or not. What matters is that you are part

of the Jewish people. To whom God gave this land that extends from the Nile to the Euphrates.

And so if you believe that, wouldn't you want to know with a burning passion who those people are? And because of science, we can now

know who those people are.

So why aren't we finding out?

I guess you could propose a DNA

test for everybody who comes here, everybody who lives here. But point the is, I'm comfortable with secular nation states. Where none of this is done on the basis of blood. I'm uncomfortable with that, I'll just say that.

But there are people who may not have bloodlines but who have converted to Judaism. Are they gonna be able to live here? Are you gonna kick them out? By your standards, they can't live here. Because you never said me. No, no, no.

They have a right to live here because God gave them the land because they're the descendants of Abram. They're the descendants of Abraham.

But if they're the spiritual descendants of Abraham and they've now decided that they're converting to Judaism, then do they have a right to live in Israel? Well, there's a whole legal literature in Israel on that question. And my understanding is that certain types of modern Judaism qualify a person and other types don't.

Is that your understanding? I don't believe that people converted, and I could have this wrong, but I know people who've faced this personally, people, I don't believe people who've converted in a reform synagogue have the right of return.

I don't think that is, because I know people who've married into Jewish families and they find out they don't have

the right of return.

So that is perplexing to me. Yeah, I know, you know, my experience

is little a different than yours. I know people who have definite Jewish connections. Family relations, but now they're Christian.

Some are not necessarily practicing Jews. They're more secular Jews, as you've discussed, but they come back here. Okay, I'm not against that. I'm just wondering, since you began this

conversation by asking me, did I think they had a right to come here? Yeah, that's a good question. My question was, on what basis do they have the right? And you said, because God granted it to them. And I also said, because there should be a land where Jews could live, in peace and safety. And I asked you what Jew a

was and you couldn't answer it. You said, I didn't, I didn't. It partly is religious but doesn't have

be, to it's partly genetic but it doesn't have to be. And so that you can see why I'm confused. I think I was very clear that

being Jewish is an identification either through blood or through faith that you're Jewish.

It may be that you're a blood Jew but you don't necessarily practice Judaism just like there are people who say they're Christian But they don't do a thing to demonstrate what Christian- There are a lot of bad Christians, including me, some of the time, a lot of the time. But I don't have a right to real estate on the basis of my claim of Christianity. You don't have a right to real estate if you're talking about a specific parcel, but if you're talking about a land, I think what we're talking about is that's all I'm saying. And there was a designation to the family of nations of the world that there would be a Jewish homeland. Let's get to that point, because I think you've taken us on several trails here, and I'm not sure we can follow them all. But is there a reason that the Jewish people that represent, and I want to get back to this because you

didn't let me finish while ago, they represent 0.2% of the world's population. In the entirety of the world, there

are about 16 million Jews total, and

8 million of them live here. The rest live mostly in New York or South Florida and a few other places. Okay.

So this is a small population of people. They have connection to this land, historically, biblically.

Do they? Yes, they do. If BB's family, we know they lived in Eastern Europe, there's no evidence they ever lived here. He's not religious. But in what sense?

But essentially, how do we know? Do you have his family tree? No. We don't. Do you? He doesn't.

So no one does, that's the point.

So how do you know that he

has any connection to the land at all? And if there has been a practice of Judaism and a connection to the language, the Bible, the land... His ancestors didn't... He doesn't practice Judaism in any rigorous way. His ancestors didn't live here, they didn't speak the language, and there's no evidence they ever lived here. So on what basis does he have a right to the land? Very much speaks the language. He has fought for the land. His family has fought for the dodging of the obvious question, which is where does this right come from? And the reason it's meaningless to you, Andrew, is because there are a lot of people in the territory that Israel controls today, particularly in the West Bank, who through genetic testing, we can know their families have been here for thousands of years. We don't know whether they practiced Judaism,

whether they were Samaritans, pre-Islam. We don't know that. A lot of them we know have been Christians for 2,000 years. They have less of a right to

the land than someone whose ancestors, the only thing we know about them

is they lived in Latvia or Poland. They're Eastern European.

How does that work? They're Jewish. By what definition?

They're Jewish by their- But how do we know they have any identity?

They're Jewish by their faith. They're Jewish by- the connection to the language Jewish by the connection to the Torah. But how do we know that Bibi, specifically Bibi's ancestors ever lived here? How do we know that? I'm not sure if I understand your question. How do we know if the Prime Minister of Israel's ancestors ever lived? Maybe I could ask you, how do we know they didn't?

I mean, there's- well, it's on the basis of the claim that they did that All kinds of things happen. People are displaced. There's a money flow.

I mean, it's a big question.

A lot hangs on this.

It's not some theoretical thing like, oh,

you know, do my grandparents do this or do that? It's like, no, no, we have a

right to be here because my ancestors were here. Okay, how do we know they were here? I'm totally unable to process what you're trying to get at.

It goes back, do Jewish people have any land on this planet that should be theirs? I feel that way about all peoples.

I feel that way about Jewish peoples. I feel that way about. Okay, then don't you mind them having this land? Is there any country, let me ask you this bluntly, is there any country that European peoples have a right to exclusively? I think they have attained their land through Conquest? I mean, let's ask ourselves. Have Britons attained their land through conquest? No, they've always been there. The Romans, the Greeks, we had all these- no, no, let's speak- well, you could certainly say that here, the Romans

controlled this, as you know, and they expelled the Jews. They don't anymore. Amen.

I want them to control it. I'm anti-Roman. Okay, we're on the same page.

Okay. But my question is very simple.

Is there any European peoples that possesses the same right to their land that

the Jews, including people whose ancestors lived in Eastern Europe possess here. The Britons, we know, the British people, the Scandinavian people, the Irish people, their

ancestors have been there for thousands of years. That's provable through genetic testing. Do they a have right to their land exclusively?

Is anyone saying they don't? Yes, of course. Yes. No one will say they will.

And I'm asking you, do they have that right? And I'm not sure what what that

question involves because no one is trying to force them out of their land, of their homes.

But here, hold on, you have to, why won't you answer that question? Because I just did.

So the Irish people have the same

right to their land that the Jewish people have? I don't know that they have a biblical connection. Okay. But I'm a Bible believer. Okay. So that is- But it's also a principle, and that is, and you've said

it Sometimes people have land because they were able to attain it through war. They were able to attain it when it was challenged.

I understand that. There's all kinds of consequences. But we can't say that about the Irish. The world borders change all the time.

Actually, the borders of the island of England have not changed.

Nor, but the island of Ireland.

Those are just two examples.

You've got the indigenous people there. Do they have a moral right to

that as their homeland. And I think they would probably say,

yes, we do, because we have ancient history to it. What do you think?

I've never thought about whether or not. Now that I'm raising the question and you've spent a lot of time thinking about the right of the Jewish people to their homeland, do the Irish have the same right to a homeland? As long as they can defend it. And as long as they, you know, as long as they can defend it. But Tucker, here's the point. Wait a second. I'm telling you. Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on. Now you just flip category. You're the minister. As long as they can defend it. And if they can't defend it, I'm allowing me to tell you that I think that what is very, very special here is that there is a biblical as well as an ethnic and a historical. So you can take any one, but if you add them all together, biblical, historical and ethnic, you have a very strong case that the Jewish people are living in a land that is indigenous to them, that has been their historic homeland for 3,800 years. You can repeat it as well as I can.

And you can also look in the archeology, the stone, The stones cry out. Okay. Have you been to the city of David for a visit? I have.

Okay.

So you know then that it's an amazing place. It may be the greatest archeological discovery in all of history. It's stunning.

And they still continue to find things that date the Jewish people to this land archeologically for 3,800 years. We can date the British people to their land much longer. Much thousands of years longer. Stonehenge is 3,000 years older than any building built by the descendants of Abram in this country.

And so I just, it's fine. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's right.

I'm just wanting you to affirm that right, but it makes you uncomfortable and you won't.

And I don't know why. Because I've never honestly sat down and asked myself, are the lines around the- It's an identity. So we know what the lines are.

I'm saying, but are those lines Are those rooted in something other than the historical connection? Well, great, then they should have it. But that's not the case. They have a right to have it. But then you said, if they can defend it, and if they can't defend it, they lose the right. But I didn't say it was exclusive, one or the other. I think you're really going off the track.

I just want to know if these principles apply universally or if they only apply to the people of Israel. My answer appears to be just the people of Israel. They're the only ones with these rights. And I just reject that.

I didn't say that, but I'm saying

we are talking about Israel, we're in Israel, we're talking about Christian Zionism because

you've made some disparaging statements about Christian Zionists, you've apologized for them for which

I appreciate, and now we're trying to define Christian and Zionist, and it

seems

like we've gone way, way off of that. I'm trying to get, as you suggested as a former debater at the outset, I'm trying to get to terms and a common understanding of what the words mean. And I'm no closer to that than I was when I began.

GT: you:'re not closer to the term Christian, what that means? I think it's someone who follows Jesus. And that's my next question. There are a lot of Christians in the West Bank. And there were a fair amount of

Christians in Gaza, and some of them have been killed. GT: There were 5,000 in Gaza? Yeah.

And Church, two different churches were hit by the IDF. Christian hospital was hit seven times by the IDF. And I don't understand. They were not hit seven times. They were different. I know. And one of the times it was

a rocket that was shot by Hamas and all the news agencies reported that

the IDF shot the rocket.

They said- Did the IDF ever hit the hospital or the churches? They did. Accidentally.

Because, and they apologized for it. And it was very unfortunate. But I also, you've got to remember, there were times Hamas often hid caches of arms under hospitals. Were you bothered by the fact that the IDF hit Christians? I'm bothered that anyone got killed in Gaza, but you know why I'm bothered? Because you're a Christian, sir. I can't say that the Christians are Islamic extremists. No, but I can say that I would reason that side with the Christians over the secular government of Israel. But I would look at it even more broadly. I would ask you this. Why was there so much suffering and

continues to be suffering in Gaza?

It's because Hamas, which could have built a Singapore, built a Haiti, they have

a landmass the size of Las Vegas.

They built tunnels underneath that are larger than the London Underground, over 500 miles of tunnels. They didn't build it to move people from one hospital to the other.

One marketplace to the other, but to

hide terrorists, to hide weaponry. And on October the 7th, they went over there and they massacred 1,200 civilians, massacred, mutilated, humiliated them. You're never gonna get me to defend Hamas, sorry. Please don't. I'm not going to. I'm telling you, I'm appalled by it. How many civilians have been killed by the IDF in Gaza?

We don't know. We don't know.

You know why we don't know? What's your guess? Well, the only numbers we have come from this dubious entity called the Gaza Health Ministry. You know who that is? What does Israel have some kind of count on it? We also know that a lot of the people who were killed were in fact warriors, sadly.

How many kids were killed?

We don't know. What's your guess? I don't know. I'm sure it was thousands and it's thousands of kids were killed. Some of the kids who were killed had been recruited to be in the military. Kids as young as 14 years old. Carriers.

Do you hear yourself?

I wonder. I just said that there were kids as young as 14 that were recruited to be Hamas soldiers who were given arms.

How do you feel about kids being killed?

I think it's horrible.

You know what? I also think it's horrible. I think it's horrible that 1,200 people were slaughtered by people across the border. And 252 people were taken hostage. 48 of the 1,200 were Americans.

And then when Are all lives equal? When Hamas could have ended this on

October the 8th and given all the hostages up, they didn't, leaving no choice.

You're never going to get me to defend Hamas. I hope not. I'm totally opposed to slaughtering innocents, whether

Hamas does it or whether the government of Israel does it in much larger numbers.

And the reason I'm opposed to it is because I'm a Christian and I believe that all souls are created by God. Do not disagree with that wholeheartedly. But I said, how many children have been killed? War is a horrible thing, period. And we don't know, we know that a lot of the numbers were reported by the government. You said you think thousands of children have been killed. A lot of them have been killed. Yeah, and a lot of times, you know why they got killed? Because Hamas would gather up the children and put them in the targets. Do you know what Israel does? They send page messages, and they send texts to every cell phone in Gaza and they say, We're gonna hit this particular target. They drop leaflets and they announce where they're gonna hit. Nobody does that. The US doesn't do that. Israel does that in order to prevent... Let me finish this. They do this in order to prevent civilian casualties.

What Hamas does, they say, oh, this is the target.

And by gunpoint, they push people into those various places. And then when people get killed, they

say, Look, Israel just slaughtered these people,

even though it was Hamas who moved them into harm's way, knowing that it was going to put them in a

place of danger and death and destruction. And they do that because they don't care. You say, you care about life, I care about life. It's interesting that they don't care about life. I'm not saying that Hamas does. You're never going to get me to defend Hamas. I'm anti-Hamas. You said that three times, and I, I believe it.

Your dig at the United States is very revealing. Why is it revealing?

Because your priorities are very clear.

No, no, no, no. Yes, they are. No, no, no. Yes, they are.

And as an American, permit me a moment of outrage.

Okay. Because I said many civilians have been killed.

Yeah.

And you said right in the middle of your elaborate defense of the IDF's

killing of civilians, including children, you said

they do a better job than the United States does. That's my country and my government. It's my country. Which I consider, What flag am I wearing here? Well, I'm asking why is it- what flag am I wearing? Well, that's of course my flag as well. And it's my flag, it's who I serve.

So why the dig at the United States in the middle? It's not a dig at them.

No, no, no, no. You've totally misrepresented it. What did you mean by that? I did not take a dig at the U.S. What I'm saying is- so

the IDF is more humane than the U.S.? I'm saying- Military? No, I'm just saying that Israel takes steps that we don't take and no other country that I'm aware of takes to try to prevent, because no matter what Israel does, they're gonna get accused of genocide. That may be right, and I'm- I'm just telling you that they- But then

let me ask you on that question, that's such a politically loaded question. But I resent the idea that you think that I'm not loyal to the US.

Or that I said, look, I'm not saying you're not loyal, I'm merely noting what you just said, which was that the IDF takes greater pains than the US, our military does. To spare civilian lives.

And I guess my question is, when was the last time the US military killed this many civilians? Do you know? Well, it could have been Nagasaki, Hiroshima, could have been Iraq, Afghanistan. We don't know the full number. And I think most Christians would say all of those things were atrocities because innocents were killed in large numbers and

we don't believe in that.

And So that's not really a defense, is it? I know it is a horrible thing, Tucker, and there are people who end up, unfortunately, being killed that shouldn't have been. I would tell you that I wish that none of those people in Gaza had been killed after October 8th. Well, I say not none of them. I'm glad Mohammed Sinwar was killed. I'm glad that some of those warriors, the people who masterminded and carried out

the atrocities, I know it's a horrible thing, Tucker, and there are people who

end up, unfortunately, being killed that shouldn't have been. Four or seven old Hamas operatives? How do you feel about their deaths?

If they participated in that, then God help them.

I'm telling you Tucker, I don't know

that they were 14 years old.

No, but I'm telling you that when someone commits the acts of atrocity and

then they hold hostages, if these were

your children being held hostage in Gaza, what would you do to get them out?

I wouldn't want to kill 14 year olds, I'll tell you Let that. me ask you something. Would you do whatever it took to

get your kids back if they were being tortured, raped, starved, I would not kill children, period. Well, I'm just telling you. And I would never make excuses for killing children either. And I'm not talking about targeting children.

I'm talking about. You told me that 14 year olds

deserve to die because they're working for him.

I'm telling you. My question is, can you hear yourself? I do hear myself. So do you think a 14 year old child has agency? Do you think that he deserves to

die because he's being used by adults?

Isn't his death a crushing tragedy? He's holding a gun and he's pointing

it at someone who's trying to save a hostage? And the only way to save that hostage, I'm telling you, war is a horrible thing. It's a horrible thing. And I think I'm the one who

thinks war is a horrible thing. No, no, no, no. I think what you don't understand. I'm trying to explain how horrible it is. And you're saying that the 14 year

old deserved to die. We don't execute 14 year olds.

You're putting words in my mouth that

I don't even know.

I don't know what you're saying.

You never said deserve to die. I say there are people who die that is unfortunate. But I'm saying that you are not giving Israel credit for having done everything they possibly could to a level that quite frankly in urban warfare, there has never been a war that is criticized Israel, but it's a foreign country and I would much rather criticize a foreign

country than my own. Feel free to do that.

They can pivot it against our country.

No, I simply gave you the illustration and I helped you understand that Israel

goes to links that no other country, including ours, goes to in the middle of an urban war, and yet Israel ended up with fewer civilian deaths in

an urban war than any urban war of record. You said you didn't know how many civilian deaths there were, so how can you say that?

If you took Gaza's numbers, Hamas's numbers, you said you didn't know what the numbers are. We don't. You just told me that. Then how can you say it's a lower number? But if you took the numbers that they reported, which is like 50,000, 24, 25,000 of those were actual warriors. How many civilians? If you take the numbers range from

120 to 78, those ones I just

read, I don't know if that's real. I don't know either. I'm asking you. Yeah, and I'm telling you, those numbers I've not heard, have not read. The numbers that I think are more reportable are somewhere in the 60,000 range. Where are those most from? From the Gaza Health Ministry, which is those Hamas valid numbers. I think they are. I don't think that they're accurate, but I'm saying, let's just say they're inaccurate, but they prove that Israel's doing a great job. Let's assume that the most widespread numbers,

the largest numbers that have been reported out of Gaza by Hamas, let's assume they're true. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying they are true, but assume they're true. Let's just take them at their word. Then you still have a lower number

of civilians killed than in any urban

warfare environment in

modern history, fact. Is that a fact?

Yes.

What are you comparing it to? To any urban warfare. What do you mean one? Iraq? Where in Afghanistan? Where in Iraq?

Where in Afghanistan? There aren't many urban areas in Afghanistan. I don't think there was any fighting in urban areas in Afghanistan. Kabul? I don't know. Were there pitched battles in Kabul over long periods of time? I don't know.

20 years.

In Kabul? I don't think so. Throughout all of Afghanistan. But what were those rates?

You're talking about what are the rates there? The number of people who were killed

into the tens of thousands. I'm asking you to... I don't know the answer. I've never heard of any of this. You brought it up. You said the IDF has killed a lower proportion of civilians in urban warfare than in any urban conflict in modern history. I'd never heard that before. I don't know what your what are the controls for that.

And you said, well, would you marry the US military killed more civilians? Would you agree that the real tragedy was that Hamas continued to force this war?

Hold on. You just once again said that the

IDF is more humane than the United States military. You just said that. You said in Iraq and Afghanistan, the US military killed more civilians than the

IDF did in Gaza. You just told I never heard that before. And my question is, how do you know that? What are those numbers? And I'm trying to explain to you that there were extraordinary efforts to keep the numbers- I don't know the numbers to you. I think there were tens of thousands. I'll get them for you.

Well, you brought it up.

That's the only reason I'm pushing it.

But you, I'm wearing a flag. I've worked for a country and you pretended or alleged that somehow I'm not loyal to this and I'm criticizing my own country. I've done a better job than the US military. In Iraq and Afghanistan. And I said, what are the numbers? And you said, I don't know. So on what basis are you making the claim that the IDF in Gaza spared more civilians than the US Army

and Marine Corps did in Afghanistan and Iraq? Why are you saying that? Like, on what basis are you saying that? From the conversations that I've had with the people who fought there. And I don't have the exact numbers for you, but what I'm trying to help you to understand, and I don't think you're willing to go there, that is there was no desire to kill people indiscriminately in Gaza. I don't think there was any desire to kill people indiscriminately in Iraq, Afghanistan. Let me just say, I think, and I know a bunch of people who serve in the IDF, and I don't believe your average IDF soldier wants to kill innocents. I just want to be really clear about that. I don't think most soldiers want to do that. I think a lot of them in our country, in Israel, wind up doing that, because that's what war is about, and it really hurts them. And I know people who've done it, personally know them really well and it wrecks their lives. But I don't think your average soldier wants that in this country or any other. The leadership is a different question and I want to refer you very specifically to a number of speeches the Prime Minister, your friend Benjamin Netanyahu gave in the aftermath of October 7th, including one in November of that year when he referred to Amalek.

Now Amalek is a reference, a biblical reference, of course you'll be very familiar with that. The Amalekites were a tribe described throughout the Bible, particularly in 1 Samuel, that obstructed the Jews as they fled Egypt. And God tells Samuel to give the instructions to Saul to kill the Amalekites. And he says, and I'm sure you remember this, this is in 1 Samuel 15, of course, I'm sure, I know you know it, he says, kill the men, kill the women, kill the children, kill the infants, kill the donkeys, kill the camels, kill everything.

And Saul spares the king and he spares the animals. And for that, he is punished by God.

That is genocide. God is calling for genocide of the Amalekites of Amalek.

And the Prime Minister of Israel at least once, I believe on other occasions,

described the Palestinians in Gaza as Amalek. That's calling for genocide. And you know that. I totally disagree. Tell me then what it means.

Because to say that Israel was attempting to commit genocide, first of all, that's simply not true. I'm saying, what is the Prime Minister talking about? Why would he refer to the Palestinians as Amalek? What is Amalek?

You would have to ask him. I don't know. I know what Amalek is.

I do understand 1 Samuel 16. I get all that. 1 Samuel 15. But I do understand. It's very, and it's widely known. So if you say our enemy is Amalek and we are proceeding on the basis of God's commands to us, you are calling for genocide. Tell me how I'm missing something. Because if Israel wanted to commit genocide, they could have done it in two and a half hours.

We can debate what's happened in Gaza.

I'm asking you why the leader of this country, ask him, well, what do you think?

I don't know. Does that bother you at all? People, I don't know what he meant. I don't know if it was an illustrative metaphor.

I think what he was saying was that we're not going to let anything

keep us from getting our hostages back, their sons and their daughters who are being brutalized, raped, tortured, starved, beaten. Come on, Mr. Mess. No, I think there are many examples of justice in the Bible. But there are very few... Israel gets accused of genocide regularly. I'm not accusing Israel of anything. I'm saying that the Prime Minister of Israel described the Palestinian people as... You think he wanted to do genocide? I'm asking why, of all the references in the Bible, and there are many to justice, and there are many to reconciliation, that is a reference to genocide, as you know, killing every man, woman, child, and infant.

Voting and their animals wiping them from the earth. And when they don't do that, they're punished. When you say that at the outset of a war, and then you wind

up with massive civilian casualties, maybe not

as big as they were in Iraq,

then I have to ask you, what is that? And is that kind of thinking consistent

with Western values and with Christianity?

Do we as Christians believe it's okay to kill people's children?

No, we don't. And neither do the Israelis because they didn't go after their children. If they'd have wanted to kill all

their children, Tucker, they've got the military capacity. They could have done it in less than a day.

I've heard you say that. I know. I mean, I guess they could have done it. Okay, but why didn't they? Why didn't they? I think there are a lot of decent people in Israel who don't want that, but I'm talking to you. Do you think that the prime minister

wanted to wipe out every single person in Gaza? I'm asking you what you think is the US that's what he wanted to do. Because you asked him.

Why are you referring? We never had to ask him that. Why? Because I never saw any evidence, any evidence that Israel tried to wipe out every single person. I just gave you examples that they tried to save civilian lives. But I'm not, and they did, wait, I'm not, as I've said, and I mean this, I think most soldiers in most armies, including the Israel Defense Force don't want to kill civilians.

I just don't believe that.

I think there are some lunatics. Can I ask you something? Yes. You platformed a guy, you had him on your show, Tony Aguilar. Don't platform anyone. Well, you interviewed. Not a liberal, so I don't platform people. Okay, you interviewed Tony Aguilar, who claimed that IDF soldiers killed a little boy in his presence. That didn't happen. It did not happen. I don't know if you know whether it happened or not. Well, I can tell you why I know it didn't happen. Because we found that little boy less than a week later. I was heavily involved in helping to extricate him from Gaza. Four different countries were involved in getting he and his mother to safety. Get them out of there. Tony Aguilar is a liar. Tony Aguilar claimed that he saw an IDF soldier shoot the little boy.

He was fired from the GHF for cause, and he begged for his job back, and they wouldn't give it back

because they didn't want him. And he told them that if they didn't give his job back, that he would burn them down. Okay. So he goes out.

No, let me finish this because it's important for you to understand.

Right. So this guy then goes out and makes up this story. That he witnessed IDF soldiers shooting a little boy. I don't know that he made it up. He seemed to believe it to me. It's possible he's wrong. I've been wrong many times. Well, this is a little bit more than just missing a fact.

He claimed to be an eyewitness to the murder of a little boy.

A little boy that a week later we found. And you're sure it's the same little boy? We're absolutely sure. How do you know that?

Because we have pictures of him, we had descriptions of him, We know his name, we know his mother. He was extricated out of Gaza. It was a very delicate situation to get him out because if Hamas had

found out that he was still alive,

they would have killed him in order to validate Aguilar's story. How do you know that? So he gets out. How do you know Hamas would have killed him? Why wouldn't they? Wouldn't they have wanted to kill him? Because that way they could have said that this story was true. Aguilar, I'm just telling you that- what you're saying is true and I have

no basis of doubt. Knowing. I'm really glad because I don't want little kids to get killed, even 14 year olds. You shouldn't want anyone to get killed. Let me ask you, is it true he also made the claim and he had audio of it and video too that US contractors were using live ammunition to disperse crowds and he had video of that.

Do you know if did he make up that video? There were times, here's what happened.

Crowds would come toward the sites. They were given verbal warnings, and then

they were given additional verbal warnings, and

shots were fired either in the air,

sometimes in the ground. And if they continued to come and

threaten, there were times when there were

people who were engaged in firefights.

That happened. Oh, they were armed? Sometimes they were. They were.

Do you know of specific instances where they were armed?

I can probably get you some specific information about that. I think I know the answer to that. I don't think there's any evidence at all that they were. But I also know that you're okay with using live ammunition at aid distribution sites for families, women and children. Very rarely did this happen. How about at all? Are you okay with that? No. I'll tell you what, I'm not okay with that. No, no, no. I think you are so trying to

put words in my mouth. You said that they were firing back. But then no evidence that they were. On a Sunday afternoon, I can remember when there was widespread reports on BBC, CNN and the New York Times and they said that 27 people were killed at a feeding site. We had video extensively over that site. Not one single person, not only were they not shot, nobody was shot at. There was not one bit of violence that happened at that feeding site.

Trying to get me to defend BBC. I'm not gonna do that.

It's like defending Hamas.

I agree with you. I don't believe anything I see in the media. It's just that it's really simple. If people are using, and these were American contractors, by the way, these are not Israelis. I'm aware of American contractors run by

some crypto minister or something was running the group.

If they're using live ammunition at an aid distribution site, that strikes me as totally unacceptable. They were not firing. Does it seem acceptable to you? They were not firing with people. People got killed. There's a way to- Some of those people got killed because Hamas were trying

to keep them from getting to the

aid distribution sites because Hamas was controlling the food. Hamas made $500 million selling the food

that was supposed to be given away for free. To defend Hamas. And what they were trying to do is to keep people from going to the sites where they were getting food for free. When we set G.H.F.

up- Hamas bad. That's the first thing that happened. I know, but I'm telling you the first thing that people said was, Wow, this is the first time we've had food that we got for free. Is it okay to buy it? Is it okay to buy unarmed people? I just told you it wasn't. That's awful. Yeah, it's awful. Of course it's awful. Are all lives equal, do you think? Of course they are. So the death of a Palestinian is

every bit as important, significant as the death of an Israeli? Why wouldn't it be? Of course it is. I don't know. Of course it is.

There's no such thing as a human soul that God made that is less valuable than another. I'm pro-life. Me too. So I believe that every life has

intrinsic worth and value. There's no such thing as a worthless or a completely disposable life. That's what makes me pro-life Tucker.

I totally agree. And I believe that from the conception until the end of natural life. Why I would never say when confronted

with the death of children, war is terrible because it minimizes the deaths of those children.

It's awful and I don't think it minimizes. I think it is outrageous. It's a terrible I wish we never had war. Why do we have war?

We're about to have one with Iran, it looks like. How many Americans do you think will die in that war?

I hope none. None died last year when we participated in the 12-day war, not one.

You said 20,000 would die and they didn't. I said could and they could have and they could die now and that's a real risk. How many boots on the ground do

you think the US has supplied for Israel over the course of its life? How many times have we put soldiers

on the ground for Israel?

Well, we had the Iraq War, which was for Israel. No, it wasn't for Israel. How was it for us?

Well, because it was a retribution against 9/11. Now, was it the best idea? Was Iraq involved in 9/11? Our government thought so. Why are 9/11 documents still classified? I have no idea.

Should they be unclassified? I think so. All of them, right? I have no problem with that.

Me too. I like transparency, I like sunlight. I do. I hope you'll call for that. I like free press, I like free speech. I totally agree. I really, I like all of that. But if there no was connect, I've never seen, I'm open to anything, but I've never seen any connection between the

government of Saddam Hussein, the secular Ba'athist government of Saddam Hussein and the terror attacks of 911.

I don't know that there were, I don't know. So I'm not sure, but I don't know how many. So why did we see that Israel's fault? Well, Benjamin Netanyahu, now prime minister, of course, exerted lots of pressure openly on the US government to take out, to regime change the Saddam government. I was there, I was in Washington, and they complied. I don't think there's any way to read it.

Do you think Israel leads the US and pushes them and tells them what to do?

Not on everything, of course. You think, what I think, let me be specific. I think the Israeli government the government strongly pushed the United States to take out Saddam Hussein. There's no question about that.

I think the Israeli government right now, Bibi Netanyahu, who's been in the White House seven times in one year, pushing for regime change in Iran, I think they're on the verge of convincing this administration to affect regime change in Iran. Do you think the president is weak and is being pushed? I'm not saying that. I know the president is being pushed. Why do you think? A foreign leader was in the White House seven times in one year. Are you okay with that?

That's a lot. You know, Israel is not just a friend or an ally, it is a real partner. We have an incredible relationship with Israel in intelligence and in military, in culture, in values. You know, to be shocked that the

Israeli prime minister would have that many

meetings, it's a lot. But I want to ask you the question, do you think President Trump is weak enough to let Bibi Netanyahu push him into something that he doesn't want to do. I don't, look, I think, and I don't know, of course, the answer to every question, including this one, but I think the president, President Trump really doesn't like nuclear proliferation, and I don't think he wants Iran to have a bomb. I think he really sincerely wants to prevent that. I hope you don't want them to have a bomb. Want them to have a bomb? I don't want anyone to have a bomb, including Israel. I don't know why we're okay with Israel having nuclear weapons, I'm not.

I'm not okay with Pakistan having them. I'm not okay with Saudi having them. Israel's nuclear weapons were created, of course, with nuclear material stolen from the United

States, from a nuclear plant in Pennsylvania,

as I know you know.

I'm opposed to all of it. I don't like nuclear weapons, it's mass

murder, as far as I'm concerned. So no, I don't want Iran to

have a bomb, obviously. The question is, what are the potential costs? And you have to factor that into any decision. what And are the cost if they were to get a nuclear bomb?

They've said for 47 years, death to America. Well, I don't think they target us. I don't think is that they've targeted President Trump specifically. Yeah, they've hired a person to assassinate. Iran, BBC and Hamas not defending them.

Good.

All I'm saying. We're in agreement on that. I want our country is not thriving and we're spending, you know, tens and tens and tens of billions of dollars over time defending Israel and helping it

prosecute all- you- know where that money goes?

It goes to a lot of places. But let's talk about that a minute. $3.8 billion a year. That money goes right back to the US to purchase weapons systems. For example, every round of ammo that

the IDF shoots is manufactured just outside where I live in Little Rock, Arkansas. The components, a lot of them, for the Iron Dome and the Arrow 3 missile defense systems. Are manufactured near Camden, Arkansas.

Which needs it, by the way.

Camden's economically depressed.

You know the area.

I do. And there are thousands and thousands of

American jobs, and there are billions and billions of dollars of expenditures that Israel

makes in the US and buys the things that we can't make. I know how defense contracting works. I'm from Washington. No, I know this. I guess what I'm saying is America's not thriving think I it's driving at all. And I mean- Do you think it's Israel's fault? I don't think it's Israel's fault.

Okay, well good, because I think- I just think that what we're doing isn't working at all. And America, I think it's not- I

think the president is doing some amazing things to get us back on track. We're not attacking Trump.

Okay.

I'm merely saying that over, say, the last 20 years, America has not gotten richer or freer at all.

And I come to Israel and the infrastructure, we were flying in and I

said to My buddy, I was like, Man, first of all, it looks great.

I love the agriculture in Israel because it's beautiful.

I love green. I love plants. I remember when it didn't look like that. Yeah, yeah. First time I came in 53 years ago.

It's great. It did not look like that. Great. Looks a lot nicer than our country. And it has higher standard of living.

It has nicer roads than the United States.

And so it's like, okay, why are we sending all this money to a country that has a higher standard of living than ours?

I don't know that they have a higher standard of living.

They do, actually.

They have free health care. They also free abortion.

Are you okay with that? I personally don't like that. Why would we be subsidizing? Why would we send any money? We're not. Why wouldn't we send any money to

a country that provides free abortion? Because the money that we send does not pay for health care, does not

pay for abortion, it pays for military things. It's like if they don't spend it on this, they'll spend it on that. They do spend it on that. And then we get many more times back on the return on investment when we say we're not sending you any

more money as long as you have free abortion. Abortion. Well, that would be a policy decision. I would be for that. I would be okay with it because I hate abortion. I think it's horrible.

How much do you hate it?

I hate it. Are we sending the money if they're paying for free? Because they're not paying for abortions with the money. And because we in turn get billions of dollars. The return on investment is estimated somewhere

between 400 and 1200. For these numbers, I just live there. And I know, and I'm, by the way, I'm four. American manufacturing, the defense industry is totally corrupt and seedy, as you know. However, I like to see American companies thrive. It's complicated. I'm not an extremist or an absolutist on really anything other than abortion.

However, net net, as we say, our country's not really thriving.

And we're also totally broken. But why is that the case?

Is it because we've done a lousy job controlling our borders, a lousy job of It's a lot of things. It's a lot of things, but we own that. I think President Trump is doing remarkable things to turn it around. I cannot imagine any president- It's not President Trump.

I know, but if you're saying the country is in trouble, listen- Saying we're out of money actually is what I'm- I give credit to what the president is doing to get us out of debt, because I think that what he's doing economically- I'm not supporting Hamas and I'm not attacking Trump. Okay. Just with those baseline agreements.

It's also true that our debt is not sustainable. And so given that, what do you think it will cost? What did it cost to move the fleet off Iran into the Persian Gulf? A lot less than it would to bury a lot of Americans if they

ever got a long range ballistic missile. A lot less. I want you to understand that when Iran has told us for 47 years

they're gonna kill us, do you think

they would do it if they had the capacity militarily? What would happen if If took Iran out any of the energy facilities in

the Gulf, took out a bunch of them, what would happen to the United States economy, do you think? Well, our economy probably would survive because

we have energy independence thanks to President Trump. We would survive.

Our economy is based on our- what would happen to markets? What do you think? It would be a terrible thing to happen globally. It's why Iran is a global threat. It's why Iran through its proxies, Tucker, this is another thing. People are worried. They're not blowing up energy infrastructure right now, but if we try to regime

change them, they have said that they will.

I don't know if they will or not.

I don't either. Is that a risk that- But they

have their own problems to defend. If they try to do that and they lose their own energy capacity. They're worried about, so if they took out, and again, I don't know what's

going to happen, and I guess we're not supposed to think about worst case because that makes us pro-Islamic or something, but I'm an American and I don't want a depression in our country.

It's too fractured and unstable right now. I don't think we want that at all, okay? None of us want that. None of us want. Not right now, we don't. Not at all. No, I don't want it. I don't want it next year, next week, 10 years from now. All these states are basically in a state of insurrection against the federal government. They're not enforcing the most basic law of the land, which is immigration. And thank goodness President Trump is pushing back and he's- I agree, I'm just saying- To force, if all of a sudden compliance, markets just tanked and gas

tripled or whatever, and you had a severe recession or something worse, that's a massive cost.

And I don't see anybody factoring in that possibility.

Iran has said it will do it. You've said 10 times they're evil. Okay, I believe you. Then why wouldn't they take out the

Qatari gas fields they share with Qatar?

Refining, petrochemicals, extraction in any of the Gulf countries, that would cripple us. Let's, well, energy wise, again, we have independence because President Trump put measures in place that gave us the capacity- Have

we set international energy prices in the United States? In some ways, we do, because our own market and our own production has

a whole lot to do with what those world costs are going to be.

If you took Saudi energy production or Qatari energy production or Emirati energy production all along? That is making an assumption that if there were regime change, that they would be more effective at attacking than we would be defending. And that's a pretty- Can we defend the Straits for Muz?

Can we defend all of that energy infrastructure? Is anyone even asking these questions or it's all like a Mark Levin episode? They're bad. They are certainly asking the questions. That's part of the whole process. What I'm saying is that I've raised a I've never heard this before and it's like, shut up, KarlsOn, you're taking

money from the jihadis. I've never taken a dime from anybody, obviously.

I just care about the United States and it freaks me out and no one else seems worried about this. In caring about the US, you should care about the fact that the proxies of Iran have moved globally. 12 Central and South American countries have Hezbollah deeply embedded.

Venezuela, one of the worst. They're in the Western Hemisphere already. Do we know how many- Where would you rank that on the list of concerns for the average American Hezbollah and ISIS? I doubt it.

Most Americans think about it. I think about it because I know what they do. I know that if it weren't for Iran, there wouldn't be Hamas, there wouldn't be the Houthis, there wouldn't be Hezbollah. We wouldn't have the problem on the border with Lebanon. We wouldn't have the problem with Yemen. We wouldn't have the problem on the border with Lebanon.

I'm an American. I'm not having any problems on the border with Lebanon right now. I live in Maine. We don't have problems on the border of Lebanon. Like, what are you even talking about? No offense. There's 700,000 Americans who live in Israel, for one thing. Does that matter to you? Well, of course, every American life matters too. Every life, you say, matters the same, so that should matter. When they start shelling civilians and civilians get killed in this place, that should matter to all of us. But I mean, there's a genocide going on in all kinds of different countries. There's a lot that's sad and broken, we know that as Christians, Satan rules the world. But our job as members of a nation state is to look after our community, our families.

So I don't think any of the concerns that you've just raised, which I think are all real, I'm not disputing them at all, are even in the top 100 for America. So how will the US government be

spending this much time and money worrying about things that are not on the list? List of Americans concerns, do we have self-government?

Does it matter what Americans actually think or doesn't it?

Of course it does, but it also matters- How much does it matter? -what the threat is to Americans. Do you think there's a threat to Americans because of the proliferation of the proxies in Iran? Conceivably there is.

I'm not pro-Iran.

But beyond conceivably, do you think that they mean it when they say for 47 years? There are cartels like in my town, and no one's doing anything about it at all. And I'm hearing a lot about- Are they doing anything about that? No one's doing anything about it at all. Okay?

That's a fact.

We have a huge country.

This is a country the size of New Jersey with no resources.

You know, it's just a tiny little country.

We're from a huge continental sized country that's totally diverse, very, very hard to manage and police. And we have a lot of problems. And I just think if you If ask Americans, what do they wanna spend their time and money worrying about, fixing, improving? No one's gonna mention the border with Lebanon that I know, do you think? I doubt they will. But why are you doing this? Don't there like to think that- But I think there are people that the

US government has monitoring what the threats

are to Americans long term. Sure, yeah. Do you think there's a threat? The question is, when people talk about 37 years, Well, but I don't know

that Saddam ever said he was gonna take down America.

But the Iranian regime has said for 47 years they are. If they had the capacity of a long range ballistic missile and nuclear capability,

do you think they'd light that puppy up and send it to us?

I don't know.

But I know this from sitting here last year, four wars that I went through in less than a year, the

Iranians rained down ballistic missiles. Can I ask you a question? How much does it matter what Americans think? Well, it matters every bit what Americans think. That's why Americans vote. It's why Americans have the opportunity to have free speech. We want them to have that. Okay, so what percentage of Americans support a war with Iran? I don't know.

Do you know?

I do.

I think it's around, I saw the numbers yesterday, I think it was like 21%. Okay.

Is that enough to have a war with Iran? We don't live in a world where

you have a poll taken to find out whether our policy should be a particular direction. Oh, I thought you just said that we rectify the mose. No, we care deeply about it. But on the other hand, do we make the decisions of foreign policy and even domestic policy based on what sense? If we're ignoring it, then in what sense do we, quote, care deeply about it?

Well, I think we care deeply when we see there's a threat. No, but about Americans opinions. So you've got 350 million Americans. They vote, voted they in this last election on the basis in part of the promise no more wars.

So now we're about to have a war looks like 80% of people are against it in that range, let's say it's 70%, but nowhere near majority support for this war. And it's not direct democracy, but it is a form of democracy, it's representative democracy. The ultimate form of democracy in our

system in a republic, because we're not a direct democracy.

True democracy, right?

It's a mediated democracy.

It'll be an opportunity for Americans to

vote if they think that we've made

the wrong policy decisions.

I personally think the president is making the right policy decisions. But you just said it matters deeply what Americans think. And if the overall majority are against it, in what sense does it matter? 'Cause what I hear is it matters

what they think, but it really doesn't

matter what they think because- no, you take it in, you certainly ingest that. And then what do you ultimately do once you ingest it? Then you make sure that you have-

no, it just goes out the other end, obviously. No, it doesn't.

No, it doesn't, Tucker, but you also have information that the average American may not have. They may not know what the threat is.

How many Americans know that Hezbollah is in 12 Western hemisphere countries? How many Americans care? Well, I would hope they would all care. How many Americans know how many people from Iran from terrorist cells have come across Joe Biden's open border. How many Americans care about that? I definitely care about that. Okay, you too. Why haven't they been rounded up? But they're trying, but you got all these blue state mayors and governors making it very difficult. I get it. But thank God President Trump is trying to get it done. Look, I'm totally all for that, completely.

Okay.

I guess what I'm saying is that most Americans, I've never met an American who thinks other than like the people who have ideological reasons to pretend they think it, that the imminent threat to America is anything having to do with Iran. The imminent threats to America include like bankruptcy from too much debt, your son ODing on fentanyl, your neighborhood completely changing

because unlike Israel, Americans don't have a right to their country. It can just be completely changed by their legislature. New people can show up from foreign countries and not speak your language. There's nothing you can do about it because you don't you don't have a right because you're not BB. Can you feel the resentment because it's real? I'm not against Israel. I'm against the total destruction. You hide that very well.

I'm mad at my lawmakers for not

protecting my country with the care they've protected Israel. I don't think that your country, my country, our country, has spent that much time protecting Israel.

I asked you a little bit ago.

There's no time protecting my country.

No, I ask you. Well, actually they do.

How?

They are the tip of the spear.

Every enemy they have is our enemy. Our country?

Things that are targeted toward us often go through them. How do we have 60 million illegal

aliens if they protected my country?

Well, we didn't protect our country because we had a president that opened up the borders and didn't give a rip. It's been going on since Reagan.

Since Reagan, 1986.

Yeah, but that's 40 years. President Trump the credit for having closed the border. I'm giving, I love the fact, I campaigned for Trump, 'cause he said he

would close the border. He did amen, thank you, Trump. But we had Reagan, then we had Bush, then we had Clinton, then we

had Bush again, ugh. Then we had that guy, Obama. And then, you know the presidents?

Yeah.

And they all presided over my country's total transformation from a nice, clean, affluent, orderly society into like, pretty kind of third world actually. That's not protecting us. That's behaving with total contempt for my country. You said a moment ago that we do more, are you inferred, that we do more for Israel than we do for ourselves.

Do you believe that? No, I didn't say we do more for Israel. It's like, but where's the care?

Where's the concern? Where's the holy smokes?

There are drug cartels in your neighborhood.

You're telling me about the border with Lebanon and like Hezbollah? Or Hezbollah, or whatever you call it in some Latin American country, I don't care. They're drunk in my neighborhood. I know people who've died of fentanyl ODs. Where'd the fentanyl come from? Probably from China. From Mexico. From China through Mexico.

Yeah, the precursor chemicals, they say, come from China. I it. get And who's in that axis with China? Iran. Larry Fink is in that axis with, no, actually, actually, the heads of our biggest corporations are in that axis with China. don't I care about Iran at all.

I care about America.

And if blowing up Iran makes my country richer and safer, I'm for it.

And if it doesn't, I'm totally opposed.

It's that simple. I think most Americans feel that way now. I asked you a question a little

bit ago, you never got back to

it, because I think it's an important one. Because one of the things that I sense a tension with you, you feel like that we do too much for

Israel, we're getting nothing from it.

And I ask you, how many- no,

no, I don't think we're getting into that.

How many boots on the ground has

the US placed on behalf of Israel? However many went to Iraq, we did that for Israel.

No, I don't think we did.

You said we did it 'cause of 9/11? That was the US justification for it.

But it wasn't 9/11. It wasn't 9/11. So what was the actual reason? Well, that's- the US government told us

it was for 9/11.

They told us that they were part

of it, that they had weapons of mass destruction. They knew they had 9/11 on their minds.

Obviously, there's no evidence. So what was the actual- Israel was not in that component. But Israel had no influence on our

decision to invade Iraq. That's not what the people who made the decision say. They say Israel- well, let me get

back to the point.

Gave us that information about the fake weapons of mass destruction. What do you think the question was? The question came from BB. How many Americans put their boots on the ground for Israel? The answer is zero. Everybody who served in Iraq put their boots on the ground for Israel.

They did not.

Did not. Where did we get the information about the weapons of mass destruction that wasn't real? We didn't get that from- You're saying we got that from Israel, that Israel was one pushed us into that? Well, absolutely. You really believe that? I know that for a fact. Or so does every...

Yes, this has been widely written about and discussed. And I'm not attacking Israel. They thought it was in their interest to take out a government that was paying the families of suicide bombers. I get it. I'm not mad at Israel about that.

I never have been. I'm mad at the Bush administration and all the people who went along with this to the detriment of my country. That's who I'm mad at, not Israel. Bibi is doing what he can for his country, whether you agree with him or not. I want my leaders to do the same for my country.

That's it.

I think the present leadership is doing just that. I truly do. And I don't think that it's at all accurate to even intimate that tiny little Israel is pushing the US into something it does not want to do. I totally- Our leaders appear to want to do it.

Our public does not want to do it. At all. The public does not want war with Iran, Bibi does. He's gotten seven, seven trips to the White House. The average American question would be- Hold on, the average American doesn't have that level of access. And a foreign leader does seven in

one year, and now we're moving toward war with Iran.

The average American doesn't want that war. The average American is outraged. Don't you understand? I'm not attacking Bibi at all. The strongest president I've I've ever seen

in my lifetime going back to Eisenhower, for God's sake. If you're in America, listen to me, Tucker, for God's sake. I'm not attacking Trump. I love Trump. I know, but you're making it sound like that he is being pulled into something that he really doesn't want to do or pulled into something because he's persuaded. I'm neither saying that nor implying. I was in the meeting last week. I was in the meetings last summer. I can assure you, President Trump is not being led into something at all by Prime Minister Netanyahu. To be clear. I'm neither saying that nor implying it. Good. What I am stating out loud is

true, and that's that Prime Minister Netanyahu, Bibi Netanyahu, has way more influence over Americans foreign policy than Americans do. And we know this because he wants a war with Iran. The overwhelming majority of Americans don't want a war with Iran, and we're very likely to get a war with Iran. So who has more influence, Benjamin Netanyahu or 80% of Americans. I'm saying that's outrageous. That's all I'm saying. I would counter that.

Bibi Netanyahu does not want a war with Iran. To say that he wants a war, you know who's gonna be at the very front of that? His people. And I don't agree with that. I'm with him enough to know he does not want a war.

He doesn't.

Does he think that there may be a necessity of taking a war? In order

to prevent an attack on not just Israel, but the entire argument.

I don't want to argue, but I think I know too much. I mean, let's be real, okay? So there was, Steve Wietkoff, in my opinion, is just a sterling guy, just a good guy.

Excellent. He's a good guy. That's my view.

And kind of pro-American and just couldn't be nicer and wants the right thing and he's probably Trump's best friend. He and maybe Jared too are involved in a negotiation With Hamas, or you mean with Iran? With Iran, I'm so sorry. Okay. And the Israeli government short-circuits it by hitting Iran. So like, what do you mean they

short-circuited by hitting Iran? They did everything they could to shut down the negotiations between the United States, the Trump administration, and Iran. And look, I wouldn't, they're acting again in their own interest, but our country should also act in own its interest. That's all I'm saying. And so don't tell me that Bibi doesn't want a war with Iran.

He doesn't. If Jared Kushner and Steve Whitkoff could be successful in getting the president's demands, and keep in mind, these are the president's demands.

What are those demands? No enrichment.

No nuclear weapon, quit killing your own people in the streets by the tens of thousands. You and I both agree that it's

a horrible thing to kill your own citizens, which Iran is doing. It's a horrible thing to kill anybody's citizens. Anybody's citizens. We agree on that. Except that they're 14 year olds working for Hamas. But no, it's still a tragedy. No, it is. Sorry, I'm being a jerk. You really are being a jerk. I am, I know, I am such a jerk. I'm going to write down...

I know, I know. He's a jerk. Oh, I am a jerk. Everyone knows that. I mean, I'm trying to really trying.

Okay. Okay. No, but I agree with you 100%. Of course it's a jerk. If that could be done, and I pray it can. Yes. And you know why? Number one, because it would be wonderful for everybody. Number two, if there is a war, you're gonna be 6,000 miles from it.

You know where I'm gonna be?

In the bullseye. Do I want there to be a war? No. Do Israelis want there to be a war? No. How many? I keep hearing Israel's fighting a seven front war. Right now, what are those seven fronts? Well, you've got Lebanon, you have Egypt. Now, Egypt is not an active war, but you have the Muslim Brotherhood within Egypt. You've got the Muslim Brotherhood in Jordan. You've got Syria. They're fighting a war with Jordan? With the Muslim Brotherhood that is in

Jordan, not directly with Jordan, not the government of Jordan.

But are they- you-'ve got Hezbollah, you've got- In Lebanon. Hooties. In Yemen. You have Hamas in Gaza. You have the threats that come from Iran.

And how many is that? That's seven. That's seven.

Okay.

I give you an eighth one. You know the eighth one?

The media. Now I would tell you there's an eighth front war.

They fight- How many journalists has Israel killed in Gaza? I don't know.

Over 200. That seems like a lot. Now, are they real journalists? Because a lot of those people that supposedly were journalists were actually Hamas fighters that are documented Hamas fighters. So that's why I ask you, how many are actual journalists? You know, I don't know, but a lot of them were, I mean, they worked for big news organizations and they had press written on their chest. Yeah, some of them had UNRWA cars and they were also working for Hamas. So, Hamas, do you think that over 200 journalists killed in Gaza are all fake journalists? Who deserve to be killed.

I have no idea how many the total number is. I don't have their credentials, but I know that there were quite a few that were actually Hamas fighters that protected Hamas. Ask the hostages. The hostages came back and they started telling about the number of people that were doctors in hospitals that held them hostage in their homes. Or the number of people who were pretending to be journalists who were actually holding them hostage. As someone who's telling you that there's a lot more to someone As whose tax dollars helped pay for killing all those civilians in Gaza, I feel like I have a right to know how many were killed and Israel won't let outside observers in to figure it out. And I'm frustrated, I just want to say that. My last question is about Christians, both Christians who visit and Christians who live here, particularly in the West Bank. I spoke to someone recently, a Christian minister who grew up in a town right outside Bethlehem, we would know it as Shepherd's Field, in the New Testament, where the shepherds were tending their flocks in Matthew. And of course, the angels come and announce the arrival of Jesus in nearby Bethlehem.

His family's been Christian, he says, for 2,000 years. He says where he grew up is now surrounded by settlements of people who are not from Israel at all. A lot of them are from the United States, Jewish settlements, they have different roads, that the Native Christians are not allowed to use.

I don't

quite know how that works. And he described a story where his mother was shot outside their house by

an IDF soldier for reasons no one ever explained.

She survived, but no one was ever punished for it or even explained why they did it.

And he basically described being terrorized by settlers. And I wonder if that's a concern for you. For the native population, the indigenous population. Did you say this happened in Bethlehem? It happened in Shepherd's Field, so it's

a Christian village, Bet Sahur, I think is its name, right outside Bethlehem. If it's in Bethlehem.

It's not in Bethlehem, it's, again, I think it's Bet Sahur, I believe is the name of the village.

Because there are no Israelis in Bethlehem, none.

There are no Jews in Bethlehem. Are there new settlements outside Bethlehem where he is from?

Over in area C, but not in area A, there are none. Well, he describes the town he grew up in, and I guess I wonder

why a Christian whose family's been there for 2,000 years... There are Palestinian Christians throughout. But why is today in Samaria? That's true. I've been over to visit them. I know you have, and some have

been, We've advocated for some that are

Muslim, but they are American citizens and we advocated because there was... But why can't they just drive into Jerusalem to go to the Church of the Holy Sepulcher?

Why do they need a permit to

do that if they're from there? Because of the acts of terrorism that has made it impossible to do it. You know how many suicide bombers? No, no, no, let me... You ask this question. So what do we do? Just say you're a Christian, oh yeah, I'm a Christian, but you're wearing a suicide bomb?

Do Christians do suicide bombs?

They could. If all they have to do is just say, announce I'm a Christian, there were over a thousand- why don't just get an identity card?

It says I'm Christian. Let me just finish this. Before Israel put the green line up, and before they took great care to put checkpoints in place, there were over

a thousand suicide bombers in one year.

It was awful. I remember it. I don't think any of them were Christians.

They may not have been. Okay, but my point is- But we could find out if they were.

So you're saying we just trust somebody. If they come up and say, I'm

a Christian, I just want to go

to the Holy Sepulcher, let me in. What I'm saying is that Christians have a right to go to the Holy Sepulcher. Israel does not own it. They've had possession of it since 1967. It doesn't belong to Bibi. It belongs to me and you and every other Christian. Bibi was probably a young person. I'm not even sure he was a Christian. No Christian should ever be barred from the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. Should Christians be barred from Joseph's Tomb in Nablus? I don't know, let's just start with

the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. Okay, let's start with the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. And I don't understand on what grounds they can go to our part. Well, they can't if they're Christians at Betsahur. So I don't understand why they're a threat, they're not a threat. And why won't you as the Christian Minister, US Ambassador to the State of Israel, say to the Prime Minister, you can't allow this. Your country exists in part because American Christians support you, so you have to treat us well.

Part of the problem, Tucker, is that

in the Palestinian Authority, and that's what we're talking about, there are Christians. Look, I know some Christians who live in Bethlehem, and that is Area A. Bethlehem was 80 plus percent Christian before Oslo, 80% Christian, less than 20% Muslim. Today it's flipped. It's now 80 plus percent Muslim. It's very few Christian, and some of the Christians that I personally know and know well are Zionist. Let that surprise you. They're Zionist and hardcore Zionist. Some are- Let me finish my train of thought here.

Okay. so in the Palestinian Authority, they still teach children from the time they're five years old that the greatest thing in the world is to kill Jews, and that if they end up being a martyr, and if they kill Jews, They will get a pension for life if they die, and if they don't, they'll get a paycheck for life and their families will. And it's called the Prisoners and Martyrs Fund. We call it Pay for Slay in the US. It is against our laws. A lot of Christians collecting on that? I don't know. Zero.

So my question remains, and I'm a little bit frustrated at this point, 'cause I'm not defending Hamas. I hate suicide bombing, I hate suicide, I hate violence, I hate the killing of children, period.

Why can't a Christian who was born

there, whose family's been there for 2000

years following Jesus for 2000 years, drive,

because it's really close to the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, he poses no threat. And why can't the United States government advocate for him to do that? We do advocate for Americans because that's our job. And it doesn't matter whether they're Palestinian

or Israeli, we do that.

But as far as when they How many Americans are being held in Israeli prisons right now?

Total, I don't have an exact number on that. I don't know. How can you advocate for them if you don't know how many there are?

Well, everyone that we know, we go visit. Our consular goes there almost every week and visits the Americans. It's not a large number as far as Americans. But when we have them, we go, we go to their trials when they're on trial. So yeah, we do a lot more

than giving us credit for. Oh, I'm giving you credit.

No, no, no, you're not doing that. Okay, please, I'm giving you credit. We don't get much. No, we don't get much. By the way, not every embassy does that. I happen to know for a fact, they don't advocate for Americans in jail. We take our consular services across into the Palestinian Authority and help people over there. Some of those are Christians, some are not, some are Muslim.

But if they're Americans and they have American citizenship and an American passport, we help them. That makes me so happy to hear. I go to Ramallah, I sit down with the vice president and the prime

minister, of the Palestinian Authority.

We try to work ways to make things better.

But the reason that sometimes it's not just an absolute free passage, I'll tell you why, because there are too many incidences of terrorist acts and Israel is not going to allow themselves- But the Christians didn't do it and they're not going to do it and Christians pay for all of this. They pay for a lot of this. Normal. It's very, you can say it's unfair, but here's the thing. You can't punish the innocent. How's that? But you got to somehow make sure that you screen people. And that's why the checkpoints, let me tell you what happened not too very long ago. We had a humanitarian aid truck that came across from Jordan. The driver was supposedly vetted. He was a former Jordanian military person. He came across the checkpoint. Everything should be fine, right? He gets out of his truck. takes He a gun and he shoots two of the people, I believe it, who are the Israelis at the checkpoint, one of whom was a young person

less than a year in the job.

His mother teaches in the American school where our embassy people go in Herzliya.

I get to make the phone call to the mother. I'm gonna tell you something, it was not the most pleasant day of my life.

It sounds awful. It is awful. And so those kind of incidences are the reason that it is difficult to go from Judea, Samaria, or the West Bank, call it whatever you want, but if you're in Area A, which is under the control of the Palestinian Authority,

and your education has been that killing Jews is a wonderful thing. I'm talking about the Christians.

And I'm talking about the Christians, if they go to those schools, they're still gonna get that education. When was the last time there was

a suicide bomb detonated by a Christian? I don't know.

Never.

Let me ask you this. Look, I'm not trying to defend, but I'm saying to you that if the

curriculum doesn't get changed, If the pay for slay doesn't get changed, that doesn't apply. You have a culture. Well, you say it doesn't apply. Maybe it never has happened. I don't know whether it has ever happened.

When will Palestinians in the West Bank have the same rights as Israelis in the West Bank? Are you talking about the ones that live in the Palestinian Authority? I'm talking about people who live in the villages they grew up in. They changed hands, went from one government to another. Whether they live under the Palestinian Authority of whether they live under Israeli, if they live under Area A, do you know the difference?

I do. Okay. I'm saying- if they live under Area A, they live under the Palestinian Authority government. They don't live under Israeli government. But it's controlled by the Israeli government completely. There's no airport, they control the utilities. I mean, it's silly. I understand there's a form of self-government, but the big decisions are made by the Israeli government, obviously. I've been there, I know this, and you know it too. So how long does this go on? You say that God gave the nation of Israel the right to this land.

Why not just take it, declare it

Israel and make everyone a citizen? I don't understand why that's not happening. Well, you know what? There are people who think that that would be a much better future. What would you think? I think it very well could be. And if you ask certain people living in the PA under their very corrupt government where 91% of the people think the government is hopelessly corrupt, that's what the numbers are. They would tell you that they would

be better off if the Israelis were the governing authority.

Everyone gets voting rights. Would that be the case? If they were all under Israeli authority? You know, there are, do you realize there are lots of Arab Israelis? I know. And they vote, do you know they serve in the Knesset?

I'm very aware of that. And I'm just wondering. And they serve on the Supreme Court. And did you know that it was an Arab who sentenced a former president and prime minister to prison? I know this, I just want to know what's going to happen. You know how many Jews get to help govern Saudi Arabia or Qatar? Or Syria. I'm not attacking Jews.

I'm just saying it's a much more open government in society. And you make it sound like the Israelis sound that way. I'm just asking. I do. No, I'm not attacking the nation of Israel. I'm just wondering what the plan is.

So I've been hearing my whole life how bad the PA is. Okay, great. But what's the plan here?

So they're moving all these Americans, people from around the world into settlements subsidized by Americans. In the West Bank. Now they're not moving them from around the world to the settlements, they're people who make Aliyah, they come.

I'm just saying these are Israelis who live in Israel. Well, there are a lot of people- and Area C is Israel.

Okay. Okay? But does it remain a territory under military control forever?

Does it just become part of the state?

You're talking about the Palestinian Authority? That's the big question. Do you believe in the two-state solution? And if you do, I would show you a map and I would ask you, 'cause this is, I don't know. I don't know what I think. I just think you need to treat people like human beings and that's not happening, obviously. And that would be, you don't glorify their killing.

Yeah, let them go to their church if they want. See the yellow parts? Yeah. That's Palestinian authority. The tan parts, that's Area B. That's the area that is mixed. Israel has military authority, but the Palestinians can live anywhere they want to in there. And the blue area, that's Area C. Area C is Israel. And Israelis can live in Israel. That's what it is.

Now, when people say they want a

two-state solution, I love to show them a map like this, and I ask them, where does that state line up? There is no contiguous territory.

I don't know how it works. You know, we've got a lot of states in the United States that need help, so I'm not gonna weigh in

other people's states, to be totally honest,

I just don't wanna pay for it anymore and just wanna fix our own country. But let me ask you one last question, which is how Christians are treated in Jerusalem. I've talked to so many who've been spit on. Really? So many? How many?

Well, two yesterday.

Two, okay.

Yeah, both Catholic clergy and both told me the same thing. Anglican clergy I interviewed. I just had dinner recently with a Greek patriarch. Well, there have been a million stories about this. Yeah, I know. There are instances where Christians get heckled. Usually it's people who are wearing clerical robes and they're wearing crosses and it shouldn't happen. It's horrible.

It's as bad for that to happen as it is to spit on somebody wearing a Kippah in New York City.

I agree.

Terrible. It's horrible.

And actually, I should be fair, there

is, and I just learned this, a

Jewish Israeli group that keeps track of

Christians being spit on in Jerusalem because they're offended by it. And God bless them for keeping track and for being offended by it. But there are an awful lot of examples of that. And my question to you, you're against it, of course, you're a Christian clergy. Horribly against it. What is it? So is the prime minister, the president, the foreign minister. So is, I get it. I think every, no one would defend that. And no one is thinking person.

But what is it? Why are they spitting on Christians?

It's very limited. It's very, very isolated. Where does it come from?

But for the most part, You know

what, as Christians, we have freedom of movement here. Tucker, I go to church every Sunday.

I play bass guitar in my church band.

I get it.

I don't get hassled being a Christian.

Everyone here knows I'm the first evangelical to be ambassador to Israel. Do you think they hate me here? No. Are evangelicals recognized by the state of Israel? Yeah. They are? Yeah. Okay. And welcomed and appreciated. No, but as a religious group, Are there evangelical churches in Israel? My gosh, yes. There's 184,000 Christians in Israel. I know, I know. And much larger than that. But there are churches that are non-denominational evangelical here.

Of course.

There are.

And it ranges from, when you say non-denominational, some of them are affiliated Baptist,

Assembly of God, some of them are

truly non-denominational, Pentecostal, some are Messianic churches.

Right.

Where most of the people are ethnically

Jewish, but they are Messianic. They believe in Jesus. There are a lot of those churches and they're spread out all over Israel. But there's freedom. You don't, oh, I know a lot of Christians in Israel, by the way, yes. And as I said, I really hope I can come back and talk to more. And come to church with me. Oh, I definitely would love that.

And I mean it too.

Why would people spit on?

Like, where does that come from? I think it's from an evil heart. Yeah. What else would it be? I agree. I mean, I don't think anybody would ever spit on another person, even if it was, you know, I don't care

what a person's religion is or what a person's nationality is. I don't hate anybody. I wouldn't spit on anybody. I wouldn't heckle anyone. And I find it repulsive. Nothing about it is defensible. I will say that the one, this was off camera, but I interviewed this Christian, leader here. And I said, oh, that's so awful.

And he goes, you know, I feel blessed because Jesus was spit on. And it's an opportunity for humility for me. And I thought, wow, that's a Christian.

Let me tell you this. I've been coming in and out of Jerusalem and Israel for 50. Well, soon to be 53 years.

Before I came as Ambassador, I made

over 100 trips here.

I've never been spat on. I've never had someone yell at me. I've never had an experience where I felt uncomfortable or that I was unwelcome.

If you spit on someone wearing a yarmulke in New York City, you go right to jail.

They would not put up with that for one second. And they do put up with it here, 'cause it still happens.

That's true.

They do go to jail in New York City. They should. And they should go to jail here. I'm against it. They should go to jail here. Amen. So there were all these Christian ministers who were, brought over here, evangelicals in December. And I think mostly to attack me, but also probably they had other- oh, they really weren't here to attack you.

I'm just joking. They were attacking me, but whatever.

Yeah.

But they were flown over by the state, the state paid for it, and

they had a conference here.

I got one of the guides that they received when they arrived, and I think it's real, and it says, don't preach about Jesus when you're in Israel. We don't, We don't allow that.

Don't do that. Really?

Yeah.

Why would a Christian minister agree not to preach about Jesus?

I'm not sure because I've never heard someone tell another Christian minister not to do that. Interesting. Good.

Well, I was totally baffled.

What would be the purpose of going to church as a Christian if you didn't talk about Jesus? Agree more. Thank you. I can assure you that that the church I attend, we talk about Jesus. I mean, we pray in the name of Jesus. No, no, I don't get it. To anyone else outside the church, are you allowed, like, could I stand in the corner and just tell people about Jesus here? You could. I'm not saying you'd get applause or that people would. Right, that's fine.

But I'm saying there are people that. There's no laws against that, though.

Not that I'm aware of. The only laws that I know of, you can't proselytize someone under the age of 18 and you cannot offer give people things of value in order to cause them to listen to your presentation. For example, I can't say, Hey, for $10, would you let me give you this gospel track and scream at you? Can't do that. I don't know if it's enforced. I'm not sure. I don't ever hear anyone arrested for it. But there's no law against just like preaching to people.

Walk down to the old city. You'll hear people out there preaching on the street. Now, are they effective? I don't know.

I'm not sure that people are stopping and falling on their knees and saying, this is what I've been waiting for. I don't know. But what I'm telling you is that the idea that you can't say it, I know that there are places in the rest of this region where you can't do that. For sure. Yeah, Qatar, you can't wear a cross in public. For sure. You can't pray in public. I think a lot of people wearing crosses in Qatar, but- In Qatar? I don't know. I have. I don't know what the laws are. In Saudi Arabia? Don't think so. I doubt it. The one place is an exception is the Emiratis. And I love those folks because they are so progressive and they're doing so many things to change the template of things. They have a Abraham House that is a combination synagogue, church, and mosque.

That's pretty amazing, isn't it? That they have the same building and they use it for all three of the major religions of the world. And I think that's incredible.

But they're really trying to do things that are beyond what anyone else in the region. They change their textbooks. They teach that Israel is not a nation they should hate or seek to annihilate. They've done some remarkable things. I'm following all this stuff in the, I agree with that.

They have a Hindu temple in Abu Dhabi. You've been following all this like hate the Muslim stuff going on in the

United States on the right.

I hear some of it and it's unpleasant. We shouldn't hate anybody. Amen. Yeah, it's not a good thing. Hate is an evil thing.

Yeah, I don't, you know, sometimes you

say, I don't support child killing, okay,

I don't either, but I don't support hate in any form. I think it's a horrible thing. That is such a great standard and I want to hold myself to that.