Transcript of Inside the Special Forces Crisis Response Team | Dave Harris

Hey guys, welcome to the TeamHouse. I'm Jack Murphy here today with our guest, Dave Harris. Dave had a nice long Army career here. He served in the 82nd Airborne before transitioning over to 3rd Special Forces Group, where he spent 17 years. Lots of Afghan deployments in different contexts. And then he was part of the Crisis Response Force when it kind of took over responsibility for the African continent. And then finished out his career as a Cephalic instructor and today works with a training company, you know, through Vortex Optics. So, Dave, thank you for joining us on the show today.

No, thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here, man.

So, Dave, the first question I always ask folks is if you tell us a little bit about kind of like your upbringing and sort of like how that took you towards military service. Like, what was it like for you growing up?

Um, so, uh, I grew up in the Bay Area, Richmond, California, to be exact. Uh, I've always had an affiliation with guns. Uh, loved them to death my whole life, so much so that my family wouldn't let me play with them. So, so, like, I loved guns my whole life. I always wanted to be like military— I mean, more like law enforcement, uh, when I was growing up, uh My mom was a single mom, had me when she was 18. I will say my dad went to prison and was away, so he was gone. I don't really know him, didn't have much contact. So when people say like a village, like my mom had me at 18, I was the first grandbaby. So like my uncles and my aunties and my grandparents, like everyone raised me. Like I was the only one for like 7 years. So everyone chipped in to raise me. So like we lived with my grandparents, so they had the most influence. But my Uncle Donald, my mom, from Grandpa B. Everyone just chipped in and raised me up. And then I was in— I went to college playing basketball somewhere.

I got off the, like, gun thing and I went to college playing basketball. And so I was playing basketball in college at Western New Mexico University, and I realized that it was levels to this basketball thing and I wasn't going to go pro. So I was like, man, what am I going to do? So I decided— I was sitting there and I'm not going to lie to you, I was sitting in my dorm room and I was watching Black Hawk Down. And I'm so simple-minded. I watched Black Hawk Down and I was like, I'm gonna go do that. And the next day I walked down to the recruiter and I was like, hey man, I want to go do that. And he was like, okay, you want to be infantry? And then I went to MEPS in New Mexico, got into New Mexico, went to MEPS. She was— and this is what I mean by simple-minded. They were like, hey, how long you want to do? And I was like, just sign me up for 20. Let's go. And she was like, How about 3? I was like, all right, 3 it is. And so she said, what do you want to do?

And I told her, look, I want to put on a ruck and I want to run. She was like, you want to ruck and run? I was like, yeah. So what job you got that's going to let me do those 2 things? And she was like, okay. And they didn't put me infantry. They made me a 14 Sierra Stinger Missileman. So I got to that. And then you want me to keep going about the Army piece?

Yeah, sure. I mean, I think, you know, it's— yeah, definitely. Go ahead.

Okay. So when they put me as a 14 Sierra, I went to Korea for my first duty station. Okay.

Okay.

One year in Korea. And I was sitting in Korea and I was like, this is nothing like Black Hawk Down. So I'm getting out, right? So I was like, I'm getting out. So I went— my first sergeant was like, hey, you're going airborne. You're high-speed private. I want to put you in airborne school, get you you in. So a month into Korea, I knew I was going to the Airborne School, going to the 82nd. My first sergeant had called, and that's before I knew about calling DA and talking to your branch manager. I didn't know any of that. First sergeant took care of it all just because I sang cadence on some runs. So he too, like, oh, you're good, I like you. So he pulled some strings and got me there. I did a year in Korea, went to the 82nd, I went to Airborne School in route. Married my wife while I was en route to airborne school, hit airborne school, and then went straight to the 82nd. And I never left Fort Bragg after that.

Oh, man. Yeah, you were flying. I mean, you were a recruiter's dream too. They'll walk through the door and be like, yeah, man, I just want to carry a rucksack. What can we do here? They're like, yeah, I got something for you.

Yeah. My recruiter would leave me in a the recruiting station by myself because he knew I was the type of kid, like, because he was like, dude, I don't even have to sell you. You already a believer. Go. I was like, look, man, I'm like, if I'm gonna do it, let's just do it.

So what year did you arrive in the 82nd?

So I got to Fort Bragg in 2003.

Okay, okay, cool. So now the war is popping off, um, and you're going to, you know, a rapidly deploying airborne unit. What was it like? Where did you touch down the 82nd?

So I touched down in the 82nd. I got there. I, so I touched down right on our dens. It was, I want to say 5588, 2nd Brigade at the time before they break everything to those BCTs. And so I got there and my unit had just got back from Iraq literally like 2 months before I showed up. So they had a year train up before we were going to go to the next trip. So we had a lot of combat experience through that. And that was during the time where people were making rank real fast. So I was in for maybe 2 years and I was an E-5.

Wow.

Right. So I was going to Iraq as an E-5. And then we took our unit to Iraq as an E-5. And then they took half the, half the guys they took and put in prison because it's no air defense mission in Iraq. So half the guys just got cut and they became prison guards. And I don't know how they determined who was going to be the PSD convoys and all that stuff. But I got put as convoy escorts and all that good stuff. So I just did that all the whole time, PSD missions and convoy escorts. And I was like, and the whole time, and we used to, we used to, I had an SF major who used to ride with us. And we used to bring him and he would do all these meetings in like the capitals and everywhere. And, uh, We do that for a while, and me and him would be up because he would plug into our comms right in the car. Like, he would have his own Peltors plug in so we couldn't talk shit about him or nothing because he was plugged into the net, right? He plugged in, and we would be— because you could talk internally and you could talk externally.

We're talking internally, and I'm just like, look, man, here's the deal. I, I don't mean to talk bad about it, but I was like, I was like, I can do more than this for my country. I was like, I get it. I don't understand because I'm a— I'm E5, but I've been in Army 2 years. I don't understand by taking him to meet the provincial governor, the implications of that meeting and all that stuff. I don't understand that. I'm just like, I'm just a taxi driver, bro. I can do more than this. And that's— so he was like, well, if you feel you could do more to this, you should go ahead and try out for SF and blah blah blah and all this stuff. So I— we were doing missions and I bump into 5th Group CRIF guys in Iraq and me and him are talking and I'm like, hey man, what do you do? And he's saying, I do SF. And I'm like, I don't really know what that is. By this point, Black Hawk Down is not even on my head no more. I'm like, dude, I'm getting out, right? So I was like, I don't know what that is, blah, blah, blah.

But by the end of Iraq, right, because the bonuses were real good, I was like, okay, I want to re-enlist. And I want to go CAF scout. But my intentions was when I get back to the States, I'm going to SF. Like, I already knew I was going to do this selection. And my— and my— and if it wouldn't have worked out, they would have screwed me, right? Because he was like, well, just take the bonus, because if you re— if you reclass, you're going to owe that new MOS some time, right? So I was like, okay, I don't want to do that. So he was like, just stay your old MOS, get your reenlistment bonus, and go SF. And I was like, you know what? That sounds like a plan. So I re-enlisted and if I wouldn't have got selected, I'd have hated life as an air defense guy still.

So you went to SFAS in like '04, '05?

Soon as we got back from that trip. So I got there in 2003. '06.

'06. Okay. And so it sounds like maybe you didn't have a lot of time to like prepare for SFAS before you went.

No, so I— because we were doing missions in Iraq, but when we were like go on a convoy, we take them to like major places. Like we go to the embassy or we go to a major compound so they can meet this governor. Well, they had gyms and everything, so I would do, uh, I would do like work out there, lift weights and stuff. And then when we come back, I would just be like, okay, me and I actually had a captain— well, lieutenant at the time who was training up too. He was like our XO and we would put on our rucksack and just walk around camp. I think it was Victory at the time. Yeah. So I was just like, all right, let's do that. And then my platoon sergeant at the time was really a good guy and he could— and it's the 82nd, so he could run like crazy. So he would just like— in 82nd, that's all you do. So I would— he would make us run all the time because he didn't believe in like not doing PT tests because we were deployed. So we were doing every 6 months we were doing a PT test.

Or something. So like, we were still working out, but I was like, I'm going to do this. So I would like get up, do our mission, go lift weights, come back from that, and then I would do my cardio at night.

Yeah, you kind of had to when it was like 110 degrees during the day.

Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh definitely.

So how did, uh, how did SFAS go when you, when you got there?

So, uh, we got back from our deployment. I put in my packet the, like, during leave. And I literally, we came off of leave and I already had my selection date. And my platoon sergeant, I remember him being like, when you were going to tell me that you were going to selection next week? And I was like, I'm telling you now, like, I'm leaving next week, right, for selection. So, uh, I went to selection and, uh, I always tell people it was, it was doable. I'm not something special. Like, I don't believe like, oh, I'm super special. I believe like God just gave me one thing, is like, I'm gonna work hard, right? I just want to keep going. So it's just like, yo dude, as long as you don't quit, you may not make the times, but don't quit, right? You don't know what the times are, so just keep going. So that was my mentality, just like, don't quit, don't quit. So I just was like, all right, here we go. And I was like, I just don't want to be— I don't want to be last. I don't know what is good.

And then I had this, uh, thing, I don't know, fear. Because, you know, in selection, you know what everyone— you— they don't let you know where everyone's units are, but you find out. Yeah, yeah, they're from Ranger Bat and they're from this and they're from that, right? So on all the rucks, all I would do is like run and I'd look at a guy, I'd be like, okay, I'm gonna catch him. And then I'd run and catch him. And I remember to this day, anytime someone caught me, I would look and I'd be like, oh shit, he's a Ranger Bat guy. That must mean like all of them are right behind me. I better run. I'll just be like, whatever I'm doing, just stay running.

I mean, I went to selection from Ranger Battalion and even I remember thinking, they have you fill out that form asking you, what do you bring to Special Forces? What skills do you have? Blah, blah, blah. There were guys there who grew up speaking Russian in the house, had all these advanced skills and language and cultural know-how. And I'm like, oh, I was a Ranger. I know how to shoot guns. And I felt inadequate. I'm like, I don't know if I really stack back up. But then when I went back to the barracks and listened to the guys talking, some of them wrote like, I can carry heavy things. I was like, well, maybe I'll be okay.

Yeah, yeah. They make you do those questionnaires and stuff. You're just like, I don't even know what you want me— like, what do you want from me, bro?

Yep. Well, my favorite was an old school SF guy told me the story. On the psych exam, one of the questions was, do you prefer it when people speak frankly? And the guy went up to the proctor of the exam and said, who's Frank?

That's a good one.

You may have failed the exam at that point. I don't know.

Well, that— so the only thing that happened to me at selection that was iffy at all was, uh, my psych eval. They, they pulled me aside because on my psych eval I said I get angry with my wife, and they said, well, do you ever hit her? And I said no. And she was like— they were like, well, what do you mean you get so angry? I was like, because she's the only person that I have to actually listen to it. Like, I can't get away. He's yelling at me. I can't just be like, this conversation's over, or walk off, or get this be done. She's just gonna follow me from room to room and keep this conversation going.

Yeah, exactly. The, uh, the psychological exam was kind of messed up in the sense that, um, there were questions on there like it's written for civilians But now you have all these combat veterans coming through taking the test, and there are questions on there like, "I know who is trying to kill me." Now, as a civilian, if you answer yes, you sound like a lunatic, and maybe you are. But if you're a veteran and you just came out of a war zone, yeah, I know who's trying to kill me. It's Al-Qaeda. Yeah.

Yep, I agree. I agree. The guy with the gun, yes. Yeah. Probably.

Yeah, it's not a hypothetical. You're not schizophrenic. People really are out to get you. Yep. Okay, so you get through SFAS and what MOS do you get and what language do you get?

Okay, so I get through SFAS and I'm sitting there and they're asking me about all these different MOSs and he's like starting to talk to me and he gets to like Delta and I've never confused, like I'm not that dude. I was like, look man, stop. How about you just put Bravo on that paper in Spanish? We'll call it good. All this stuff you talking, just put Bravo in Spanish, man. Half the words in this medical book I probably couldn't read, right? So he puts, uh, he's like, okay, Bravo Spanish. So I get 18 Bravo, but I get Indonesian.

Okay.

So I get 18 Bravo in Indonesian, and then, uh, uh, so I knew I didn't want to go to, uh I'm not nothing against First Group, but I had been at Bragg my whole time and my daughter was born with cerebral palsy. So she had already had all the medical attention. We had already been to doctors at Duke and she's seeing physical therapists and all this stuff. So I was like, I'm not going to Okinawa. I got my daughter, like, I can't do that. Right. So I wasn't going to do that. So I'm going through the Q course and I'm talking to my cadre and I passed. I didn't fail any phases. I go through everything. Only issue I had was swimming. That's a true one. It's a stereotype because it might be true.

Yeah, because you guys, uh, you have barbecues instead of pool parties. Yeah, yeah, it starts young.

Yeah, so that was my only issue I had. But of course I passed all the phases, and, uh, every phase I would come back to Cadre like, I can't like go to a first group I just can't go to Okinawa, my daughter has this. And he was like, not a problem. So I was the— I got done with, uh, passed it all, and then they put me as only Indonesian speaker in third group.

That's hilarious.

And then they switched me over to Dari, and I had to go back to language and learn that.

So you are a Indo-speaking 18 Bravo in 3rd Group.

Yeah.

And what, what team, what was your first team? And, uh, I mean, I, you told me earlier you went out, the first trip was a JSET.

Yes. So I went to 3231, a mobility team, Charlie Company, 2nd Battalion. I went to 3231. I, uh, got on that team. They were a mobility team at the time, and, uh, we were, they were half the half of the teams were in Afghanistan and this team was back. So I went to that team that was back. And then instead of going to join the rest of the battalion in Afghanistan, they had JSETs and we got hit with Pakistan.

That's pretty cool.

Yeah. So we went to Pakistan.

What was the mission in Pakistan? Were you guys training? I think it's the SSG. Is there SF guys?

Yeah, I think it's their tier 1 element. Yeah, our tier, whatever. Yes, their element, their special operations. We were training them and they had— it was weird because we didn't even get interpreters. So we were using their, like, basically their intel dudes. We were saying their intel dudes that were there taking the class, they were our interpreters to like get everything to go through. So that was— it was, it was very interesting. Side note on that is, you know, you make your E&E plan if you need to get away, right? So we're sitting there and we make our plan. And the plan for our E&E is like, if something goes wrong, we're going to E&E to Afghanistan. And our medic says, so we're going to E&E to the war. And we were like, yep, that's what we're running to. There's nothing else in the air.

I mean, that's, that's a technique.

Yeah. Yeah. So we did our JSET to Pakistan. We were there for almost 5 months and then we came back.

How do you think the training program went? Do you think it, like, we've seen some good positive results with the guys by the end of 5 months?

Yes, and they were doing ops as well while we were training. They would go do ops, so, uh, and then they would come back. So it was going well. I think it went real well. I'll be honest with you, I would say that that was the first time that I understood, like, you know how you— everything's always being assessed. So I remember giving a class on small unit tactics. And like everyone on the team just standing there watching me, but they're— and I'm going through all the tactics and then I'm— and I finally look up at them and I'm like, hey, is something wrong? And they're like, no, keep going. And I'm like, oh, they're, they're watching to see what I'm putting out. They're like assessing my performance now because you're the new guy on the team.

Yeah. Uh, any other interesting stories about Pakistan? I mean, do you get to go, um, like some of the guys Talking about patrolling around up in the mountains and stuff with those dudes.

We didn't do it. We didn't get to do any ops with them at all. Actually, when I was there, we didn't do anything other than train them and let them go. And then they would come back and then we would debrief and then set up the next day's like a week of training. Then they would go on ops.

Cool, cool.

Other than the only cool— nothing really cool happened other than going through a checkpoint. And getting hit in the paper because they caught us with a gun in our vehicles and they hit us in the paper. Apparently we were there to assassinate the president. That was the only thing weird happened to us. I remember looking at Bobby, looking, getting out the car and he just looks back at my vehicle and his face. I was like, what happened? I have my pistol on my lap and I grab it. I'm like, are we about to get in a shootout at like in Islamabad, like in the capital with the patrol, because I'm like, what's going on here? And then finally, the guys that you call at the embassy, that's the LNOs. They came out and got everything settled. And then the next morning, we saw that we were trying to sneak, sneak Uzis in to assassinate the president.

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Yeah, I—

and this team, I mean, it's interesting that it— from what you were telling me, it went through some transitions numerous times while you were there. Um, yeah, what was sort of like the next thing that came for you and your ODA?

So we got back from Pakistan, we were there for about 6 months, and then, uh we got tagged, or we got a new team sergeant, and he was huge in the ASO game, like the ASO thing. And somehow, I don't know why, but our team got picked and we became the— we were to go and become the ASO team. Um, so, so we became the ASO team, which meant everyone had to go to Level 2 and Level 3 and do all these different schools. And, um, that was cool. I tried to quit because I knew I didn't want to do that. So I tried to do it the right way, which backfired. I went to my team sergeant, his name was Chuck, and I was like, hey, Chuck, we're about to beat this ASO team and I don't want to do it. So I would like to leave the team. And Chuck looked at me and he was like, no. So I stayed on the team for 2 more years. What's that?

Do you want to explain to folks what like ASO is? Non-SF dudes probably won't, uh, won't know.

Yeah, it's just basically, uh, for simplest way to put it is you're writing reports and you're talking to people. You're basically working sources and dealing with like— you're, you're doing CIA stuff, but you're not CIA, and it's nowhere near as high speed as CIA. Don't— like, I'm not getting into that. You're just talking to people and writing reports and sending them up.

Right, right. So there's all the like human intelligence side of it.

Yeah, it's all the human intelligence. So we just gather and do.

And so you guys transition to the ASO team and you reluctantly go through the training that's required to get qualified. And then they send you guys to Afghanistan.

Yes, we go to Afghanistan as an ASO team, but we are, our story is we're just a regular ODA. So all we did was regular ODA stuff, and then we had, uh, because some of us really didn't like doing the ASO mission, obviously, right? So they gave, uh, guys like, hey Dave, you like to talk, he likes to talk, nothing should come of this, you talk to him. So I just was like, all right man, you gonna come around here, hey, every 2 weeks we'll meet and you can tell me stuff. So that was mine, and then we just did regular ODA missions for the whole time. And it was just going on patrols, 3-day patrols out, come back, and then people would be writing reports. And I'd be— because we built a camp in Guriguri, Afghanistan. So I'd be basically— I was base security doing all that stuff. So it really wasn't a lot of ASO I could do because I was doing that.

This is during that time where they were putting smaller SFOBs out there in the hinterlands of Afghanistan?

Yes. So they were putting us out there. So what, the golden hour, if everything went perfect, we were at 59 minutes.

Okay.

Yeah. Like, so we were like, if everything goes perfect to get a guy out, we were at 59 minutes from the closest base we could get to to get medical aid.

And what was that like? Kind of like standing up a camp from scratch.

So I'd done that twice. So from— it's strange because when you get there, nothing's there. So everything is like old school, like just infantry tactics. Like, hey, you build your perimeter, everyone's on security. Hey, you guys can sleep, you guys can stay awake. Hey, when are these pallets coming? You gotta— and I'll be honest, it teaches you a lot of the intricacies, intricacies of SF, as in how do you get funding, how do— who needs to do paperwork, contracting agents, what classes are needed for the contracting agents, and all those ins and outs that like a lot of guys don't never have to deal with.

The logistics.

I had to learn all that kind of stuff on the fly as a SF dude with a year in the group.

And also in combat, uh, we should mention.

So you're figuring out how to— because most of that stuff they making you do, all these classes, it's power— and it's not— it's PowerPoint online classes. So now you figured like the Echo is makeshift and some internet because we don't have a camp. So you're sitting there trying to get this done. Because you need the money so we could get a building built so you can do this. So you're learning all that stuff.

By the time you left, what did that camp look like?

So when we started, we— so we did 10-on and the first 10 was— it was just— we had— it was just the desert. So by the time we left, we had probably a 2K base and to the north we had It was to the north of us, we had like the junkyard. And then if you went more east, you had the village that was to our— the village. And then to the back, we had the road. And then out to the other side, it was just more desert. So it was just more desert. And then we were— and the camp was pretty big. We cut the camp in half. So it was a 2K base with about 1K we split in half. And that was the Afghan side. And then we had the American side.

Gotcha.

And Seabees come out, the Seabees came out and they built us our makeshift huts so we could live in those. And we had those going around the perimeter of the American side. And then on the Afghan side, we had a foreman and they built their own buildings with, with the concrete.

Lots of filling sandbags, I'm guessing. Yeah.

And Hesco, Hesco.

Hesco. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A lot of Hesco.

Yeah, I mean, some of those bases really looked like Vietnam-era firebases.

Oh, it was, it was. And then, uh, yeah, we used to get— it was this one day, I was impressed actually, I'm not even gonna lie, I was impressed. We used to get attacked once a month by this dude shooting 105 rockets. And he would shoot 105, he would shoot 3. I don't know if he only could save money to buy 3 at a time, I don't know why it was always 3, but he only shot 3 rockets. Well, And he was shooting them off. He was using a car battery and rocks, but he was super accurate. So that was impressed me. Well, I was like, okay, he missed, but he stacked 3 rockets right here, right? And he was bracking at us. So one month it hit off to the right, next month it would hit off to the left, right? Then the next month it just go right over the base. And I'm like, man, this dude, I'm impressed. Like this Is he doing this with like rock? Just that? And then we answer with mortars eventually. Yeah.

So that took care of him. Yeah. And in the meantime, you said you were going out and doing these patrols. What was it like sort of trying to balance the Special Forces, you know, by, with, and through working with the INDIG, but also this sort of ASO mission that you guys have as well?

It was— I'll be honest, it was, uh, I'm not gonna— for me, it was not hard. And the reason why is because I didn't know nothing else. So if you could say like, oh man, it was all this stuff, but I was like, that's what I walked into. It was like, this was my first trip and we were doing this, so I don't know anything else. So it was like, hey, 3 days a week we're going on patrols, you need to make your meetings happen on these days. Your meeting can happen on these days. A day after you meet this guy, you need to have your report written up. Go into the SCIF, have your report written up, and then the level 3 will look it over. So that was just normal life for me. I didn't know anything different. So like we would do our con ops, uh, we do our con ops the week prior, they get sent up. Then, uh, and our team sergeant was actually like mentoring us. So each guy, if he gave you like, hey, this is where we're going. Right to Khanok.

Gotcha.

Yeah, yeah. And then he would look it over and send it up. So he was making us learn how to do all that stuff, right?

Right.

Like, we learned how to do our own Khanoks. We learned how to do all that stuff. And then, I'll be honest, at first it would take like reports. Everything took— if, if anybody's like any new job, you take 6 hours to get something done that might have— should have took 20 minutes when you started, because you don't know what you don't know, right? And so, yeah, it takes me almost half a day to write one con-op, right? And then by the time we were leaving, I could get a con-op done in 30 minutes. Yeah, yeah. By the time we were leaving, I could have the report done in 2 hours. Mm-hmm. At first it was like, okay, this report's going to take me all day to write because I don't know what you want to see. So at first it was hectic just because it took so much time to know what you're like trying to get out. But by the time you get done, it was, it was easy.. And then by the time we left and came back the second time, because we came back to the same base as an ASO team, the camp was really built up by then because by that point you got so many millions of dollars and put into that camp.

And then we left and we decided to tear it down. Yeah.

On, on— was that on the third trip that you tore it down?

No. So when I left the last time, we ripped out with a team from Fifth Group and they ripped down the base. Oh, they would have charged with tearing it apart.

Do you think that, you know, was the team able to like kind of provide some situational awareness for the CJ Sodiff or whoever you were reporting to about what was going on in that AO? Yes.

So from the— so, okay, so funny story on that. Did you remember I told you they gave me the guy that wasn't supposed to— nothing was supposed to come of it? I said they gave me the guy because they knew I didn't like the mission.

Right, right, right, right.

Nothing's gonna come of this. Well, fast forward 8 months and guess who's the only guy still having meetings? 8 months later, I'm still the only guy having meetings with my dude, and we actually were able to accomplish what they put us there to accomplish.

That's pretty cool.

Yeah. So I was like, okay, but it was cool. But then once we accomplished it and we were like, hey, we got this guy, that's when colonels and people with bags of money flew in. And I was like, I don't— Dave, you're not needed at this meeting. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, that's, that's always the complaint about, you know, the complaint within SF, I think. Like you said, CIA is doing this like strategic level stuff and you're doing like tactical level stuff. And if you get to a point where you're building a strategic source, the eye in the sky comes in and takes it away from you.

Oh, yeah. You know exactly what I'm saying. Like, it was like, hey, can you do this? I'm like,. And they gave me a mission. They probably, they were like, you're not going to be able to get it done. And then when we were like, oh shit, someone, someone can do it. They were like, oh, you don't need to be doing that no more. Yeah.

Well, thank you for your service.

Yeah. Yep. That was the end of that.

And then what was the third trip to Afghanistan with that team?

So we switched back to being a mobility team. So when we got back, we did 10 on, 10 off, 10 on, came, and we got back, they were like, our colonel, which he was— it sucked, but he was the— like, I respected him more than any, any, like, any commander I had. And the reason why is because we only got 5 months home, right, on this one. But he, uh, he came in our team room, he took the time, him and the Sergeant Major walked in and was like, hey, do y'all feel I'm fucking you guys? Excuse my language. Do y'all feel I'm fucking y'all over? And, you know, I'm like, yeah, I feel that way.

Some honest feedback.

Yeah. But guess what? He took the time out of his day to come in and just be like— and he said straight out of his mouth, I'm taking every team to Afghanistan. I didn't like it, but I respected it as a leader. Like, you came down here and told me like a man to my face.

Yeah, yeah, he owned it. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, I respect that. I can get down with that. I don't like it, but I'll execute. So after he did that, we went and I remember going in and they were giving us our papers to sign that you don't care about your dwell time. Like, I'll sign off my dwell time. So I'm there and I'm like, so if I don't sign this, I don't have to go? And everyone starts laughing. It's like, David, you're going. And I was like, I know. So I just don't know why they even bringing this paper up.

It's, it's, yeah, mandatory, mandatory but not.

Yeah, yeah, like you signed this paper so that way if something happens— he didn't want his dwell time anyway, that's all that is. Yeah, I signed the paper and then we go back to Afghanistan and this time we went to, uh, man, where we went to a police base but we had to build another camp. Oh man, we went to a police academy but we went to the top of the mountain and it was maybe an hour away from Bath and everything where we had to drive. So we were about an hour there and we built the academy there and then we built that academy up and we were just doing ops nonstop.

Any particular like operations that kind of stand out in your mind where things got a little sketchy?

So yeah, we had some, I'll be honest for, The— I, I'll be honest with you, I hated being in the vehicle. Yeah, some people like being in the vehicles, I guess, and like, like, look, I just felt like every time we got into contact in a vehicle, I couldn't see anything through the CRO system.

Right, right.

So, so I would do my best to be like, hey dude, I want to be out, and like, put me out. And I was a sniper qualified. I'd be like, I don't care, I just— I'll go do overwatch. Just give me another guy, we'll go do that. Give me the side-by-side. I'll ride that. The only op I will tell you that I ever got nervous about, uh, it was, uh, it was before this trip. It was another trip where it was a time where the year that the highest green on blue was happening that year. So, uh, I remember we were waiting on an airdrop and I was on a side-by-side and it was Afghans were coming down the road on their trucks., and I was on a side-by-side.

Side-by-side is like a, it's like a Gator, right?

Yeah, it's, uh, no, it's just the four-wheeler.

Oh, gotcha. Yeah, quad.

I'm sorry, not a side-by-side. I was on the four-wheeler. Okay. And I'm going and I'm driving, and, uh, as I'm driving the four-wheeler, I stopped the vehicle. I don't make— I don't know what makes me think, because I'm an American, I guess I got power to make them stop in a, in a truck, right? So I stop them, they want to drive past, I'm like, no. And then as I pull up on them They had their disco on top and everything. And in my head I was like, oh shit, this could go real bad. I'm on a four-wheeler with a rifle slung on my back. This could go bad. So, and then other than that, I mean, I've had, uh, the only time I ever would say it was a real bad mission was, uh, I was involved in one where, uh, where I was not even there at the exact moment it happened. We were all, all of us were in one location and a green on blue incident happened.

Oh man. Are you okay? You like talking about it?

I wasn't. So when we had like all of us were in one location and I can't really speak on what exactly happened because as soon as they got in, we left the camp and that's when everything broke out. Oh, wow.

So did you have to go back and like respond to all that?

No, we were out doing our thing, fighting outside at that point.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Jesus, it's crazy that you— it's a just one more hazard that you got to worry about.

Yeah, yeah. So, and, uh, that was the only time I ever was like, oh man, that's a bad— everything else that has happened, uh, they tell me I don't have any issues because I cope with it well. And I was like, ah, I just understood it was war and that's that. It just is what it is.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's pretty common, like at least soldiers understand that you show up on a battlefield and some soldiers are going to die. Everyone kind of knows that. It's sort of the other things, I think, that when you see the collateral damage, that really bothers people.

I mean, yeah, I would say that's the only thing I've ever been messed up with is seeing kids. Yeah. Kids got injured. I'd be like, damn, that's younger than my daughter, or they the same age as my son.

Yeah. And the abject poverty that they're living in is just— yeah, it's pretty rough. Yeah. So you come back from that. I mean, you've definitely gotten your feet wet at this point as an 18 Bravo on an A team.

Yep.

You come back home from that. And what is sort of like, you know, this thing, the Crisis Response Force, like, how did that kind of come into your life? Where did you first hear about it?

So when I was coming to SF, I like, I remember the 5th Group guy I met in Iraq was a CRIF guy.

Yep, yep.

And he said, go to 5th Group, tip of the spear, and go to the CRIF. I don't, don't know if it was true. Never been in 5th Group. I'm an 82nd E4, E5 at the time. I'm like, okay, go to the 5th Group, CRIF. That's all I know. So as I'm going through the Bravo course, One of the cadre was like, uh, is there anything I ever could do for you? Let me know. So I said, yeah, there's something you can do for me. I want to go to the crib. He responded with, that was not a good idea. You should go to group, learn your job, and then you— then that. So he talked to Sergeant Major Peters at the time, which I had never even met Sergeant Major Peters. He talked to Sergeant Major Peters, made a call. And when we showed up, everyone I was with, because 4th Battalion was trying to get manned, everyone that showed up with me went to 4th Battalion and I went to 2nd because that's where the CRIF was.

Oh, I see. So they're putting you close to it.

Yeah. So I went to 2nd and I went to Charlie Company. And then I was like, okay, then I'm doing my team time. And I'm like, hey, I know I want to go to the CRIF. I really don't know what they're doing. I really don't know anything about it. I just want to go do that. That's what that guy told me. That's what I want to do. And as I'm there more and more and more, I'm like, oh, they do CQB. Oh, they do this. And I always could always say the problem that I found when I was on my team was you wanted me to be good at so much crap. Yeah.

Yeah. There's a lot.

Yeah. I was like, man, just give me 4 tasks. I can master 4 things really good.

Right.

But you be good at so much crap. And I, it's, it's like, I can't— I'm maybe a B+ in all of it, like, and some things I'm an F, like, some things I'm an A. Yeah, yeah.

People don't understand, like, how much responsibility, um, each guy on an ODA has. And you think if you're an 18 Bravo, you just, like, clean the guns and make sure the guns are operational. No, there's so much more to it. You're training the Afghans, you're in charge of base security, The Charlies have their job there. Yeah, they do demolitions, but they're also having to build the camp and get the construction materials. The commo guys, I mean, yeah, they're in charge of the commo, our radios, but they're also in charge of the networking within the camp. So everyone has tons of different lanes that they have to be in.

Yeah. And no one's telling you about those actual— no one's ever hitting you with the actual, the literal S-shop duties. No one's telling you those.

Yo, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No one's ever giving you all that.

The, uh, the medics are often there, aren't they?

I think his phone died.

That, or he got a phone call. Yeah, you can plug your book right now.

Yeah, I'll keep it in.

All right, guys. Uh, so I want to tell you about my novel, The Most Dangerous Man. Came out in June. It is, uh, up on Amazon or Barnes Noble, uh, for $1.99. You can go find it right now.

I apologize.

Yeah, no worries, dude. You just got to plug in your phone.

No, something just happened. I don't know what.

Okay, so, uh, talking about it, 18 Deltas, they have the admin duties and everything.

Yeah. And no one tells you about like, that in itself is another job.

And then the ASO stuff is dumped on you too.

Yeah. So like, no one tells you about like, oh, don't forget, you need to learn how to do risk assessments. What?

Right.

Oh yeah, this guy needs to learn how to do all this other crap. Oh yeah, he needs to learn how to do purchase requests.

And it's—

yeah, you got—

you need to go down, down, down the road and get the hazmat class and learn how to take this huge book and look through it.

Yeah. Like, no one tells you all those extra duties, and then it's like, well, there's no way I can do all that crap. Yeah, I can't be. So I was like, okay, the CRIF is all it is, is like, it's like, yes, the CRIF has all those other duties, at least. And I'm just gonna be blunt, in my opinion, they just blow off all the other stuff and say— at least when I was there, it was like, yeah, we're supposed to do ASO. Do we ever train ASO? No, CQB it is. So you get really good at CQB and shooting, right? So that's why I was like, hey, I just want to go and let me just hone, let me just work on one skill. Let me work on one or two skills. I could be really good at those. So I really, after about, I was on my company for 6 years and then I was sniper qualified already. So I was like, hey, I remember I went to a group sergeant, battalion sergeant major. And I was like, hey, I want to re-enlist. And he was like, okay, what do you want? And I was like, I don't know if you know Thor 3 is like a workout program.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, so I happened to— like, Thor at the time needed help with trainers. They didn't have enough trainers. So I was my Sergeant Major's trainer because I had been using Thor for like 4 years.

I heard it was a really good program.

It was. I went there every day for 4 years. So I started working with my Sergeant Major because he would come in and I would be the guy that worked him. So I knew him pretty good. So I was like, hey Sergeant Major, came into his office. I was like, hey, I want to re-enlist. He was like, okay, what do you want? And I was like, move me to the CRIF. And he was like, that's it? And I was like, yeah. And he was like, so when will you re-enlist? And I was like, when you move me. I played this game before.

I like your bargaining techniques, you know. Yeah, the Sergeant Major being like a used car salesman.

Yeah, but here's my question, and I told someone in the cryptus, I was like, if he would have said no, I was screwed. He knew I wanted to stay in. I already put my cards on the table. I'm staying in. This is what I want to stay in. But he was cool. He told me, okay, you'll be moving in February. I stayed there for the rest of that year. February, I moved over to the CRIF, re-enlisted, and that was that.

That's awesome. So what was your first position when you got to the CRIF?

So they put me in the arms room until I could get Sephardic qualified.

Gotcha.

Because I'm sniper qualified, but I'm not Sephardic. So I guess by doctrine, I wasn't able to go on operations. Yeah, like going do CQB. So they put me in the arms room for 6 months while I trained with the guys, getting better at pistol shooting. And, uh, because my pistol shooting was bad, so they had to really work with me a lot. Um, so they worked with me a lot. Actually, one guy, Andy Milk, took me under his wing and like trained me up. That's cool. Like, to the point when I got to Sephardic, the shooting wasn't the problem. I wasn't worried about that. And they kind of trained me to the point where they were like, we want you to only care about CQB. We don't even want shooting to be something you're thinking about, so that way you can just learn the CQB, right? So I went to— I trained for 6 months with them there, and I was like shooting. I was with the teams every time they went to do anything. And after that, after that I went from there to CQB. I went to Sephardic and I went and after I got out there, after that I got out there, I graduated from Sephardic in 2000.

Let me think here, 2014, okay, '15. I graduated from Sephardic and then after I graduated from Sephardic, I went straight to 3222. Okay, I went straight to 3222. Uh, And I was on the assault side.

Awesome. So what did you think of Sephardic?

I will be honest. So comparing sniper school to Sephardic, Sephardic was a way funner school, but it's super subjective. Sniper school is way— it was fun too, but it's not subjective. Sniping school was like, you take the shot, you either hit or you miss.

Right, right.

The Fardak is like you go in a room, you dig a corner, like you didn't dig your corner. You're like, I did. I didn't see you dig your corner. Digged you. So it's way more like, okay, you're kind of like, okay, I have to actually do this and collapse the sector and do all this stuff. But to me, the school was way more fun blowing up doors or going in buildings, shooting. It's just way more interactive.

Right, right, right. And we should take a second here just to tell people, explain to people who are not military, SFARDAC. I'm going to try to get the acronym right. Special Forces Advanced Reconnaissance and Exploitation Course. Is that it?

Course and tech next week. Yep.

And that is the Special Forces course for— it really is specifically for the CRIF. To get them qualified to do hostage rescue missions, really, and to support JSOC and help them out as necessary. And then sniper, the SODIC course, which is now the Special Forces Sniper Course.

Yeah.

And same thing, but on the sniper side. And then the CRIF itself, the Crisis Response Force, used to be called the Commanders in Extremist Force. And they are— the special forces sort of rapid response element.

Is that all?

Is that right? Did I get anything wrong?

No, you're good. You're right on it. Okay.

So you had a good time at Sephardic and then you get back and they put you on one of the assault. I think they call them assault cells, right?

Yeah. Assault teams. And you have cells in the team.

Gotcha. Okay. And Were you, I mean, when you got there, what was like your conception of like what the unit's mission was?

So to me, I was like, okay, I got there and it was the tail end of Iraq. So the mission was changing. So it was the tail end of Iraq. So those guys, a lot of those guys had been doing Iraq. They were just hitting buildings. Yeah. And I mean, guys, probably gonna get some hate for this, like, I'm just gonna be honest though. Like, guys say like, oh, we were doing this and doing that. They were doing real stuff, but you're doing what the big boys don't want to do. Like, let's be real, like, if they really thought it was that important, CAG would hit the building. Yeah, Delta would be there. Like, you're doing the ones that they're not really interested in doing. So you're doing a lot of ops, but they also were doing ops with them too. So I wasn't a part of any of that. They were getting it on and doing a lot, and then, uh, they were helping out and doing a lot. So they had a lot of that. And then when I got there, that was dying. So that was when I got there, was more, you know, QRF for, uh, the big boys when they go do stuff, right?

Right.

You were, you were on, you were on standby waiting. And then I wasn't a part of that deployment. I was the next deployment up. So I went on that. My team had just got back from Iraq and that's why I joined them when I graduated Sephardic. And then the other team pushed out the door that had trained me.

Ah, okay. And so what was your first deployment with them?

So my first deployment, when I got to, when I got to my team, we were going straight to Germany to rip out 10th Group and take over the continent.

Take over the African continent.

Yes.

And this is all— and I'd like to have you actually tell the, the, a little bit of the background in the history. But that happened, a lot of it happened because of Benghazi, right?

Yes. So, uh, so when I showed up to Third Group, uh, I don't know what happened because Africa was part of Third Group's AO when I showed up.

Right.

And we were doing Afghanistan and we were doing other things. And then one day we had a group formation and they told us we were AfPak, which basically meant we were— we were— what were we? AfStan or something weird, right? But all it really meant was we had Afghanistan and everything that ended with a stan. So Tajikistan, Pakistan, all those. We did all those now. So that's how I got the JSET to Pakistan because TIF group took over Africa. They were going to watch the kind of Africa just because we didn't have the manpower to do all the JSETs they wanted and cover down in Afghanistan. Right. So the colonels, I guess, met and they decided to split everything up. Well, then when I got— when we were going back toward the end of my career, about toward the end when we were taking over Africa again, there was like switching everyone back to French from Africa, from Dari and all that stuff. And we took back Africa as the continent and gave 10th Group— what, 10th Group actually sent teams to Afghanistan because we flip-flopped. So we, I guess that what got argued was they took, they started sending teams to Afghanistan and we took back the continent of Africa and kept some of the stands.

So what was that experience like kind of standing up that element and, and you know, you're having to do it in Germany but be postured to respond into Africa.

So the TIF group team we ripped out with was awesome. So like they had it dialed in. They were like, they had their stuff dialed in and they were put together. So like when we got there, what they handed us was a great product. It was a great product. Everything was legit. If they were, if we would have probably had to stand it up from scratch, I don't know what would have happened. Honestly, because they gave us a good product, but they have been doing it for so long, I have no idea what theirs was like.

10th Group had the first CIF team, if I recall correctly.

Yeah, and they had two. So they had one in Colorado and one, I think, forward in Germany. So they had two. So we got put into— so when we ripped out with them, we had a barracks and then Ramstein that had the airfield, and one bird stayed at Ramstein ready to go. All times ready, waiting for Africa. And then in there we had a hangar, and in the hangar was all the Humvees already with the guns on them, ammo's already ready to go. Everything like stayed in the hangar, loaded, prepped. Mm-hmm. Everything was on standby, ready to go. You had a bag packed and everything. And underneath, uh, in our barracks, you had a third floor, the bottom floor. That's where we kept all our go bags. Everything's prepped, ready to go. It actually was more actually like a— that's what the CRIF is supposed to actually be like, where you're on call, ready to go. Right. You couldn't go further. Yep. You couldn't go further than an hour away from base because we could be recalled at any moment. Yeah.

I mean, it's like real life G.I. Joe mission.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, and I'll be honest, you said what was life like there in Germany? Extremely boring.

Really?

Yeah. Because you're just waiting to see if you're going to get the call. Right? So for me, I'll be honest, it would be like we lived like right down the road from the gym. So I would wake up, if we were doing, uh, training, I would go do the training. If we weren't doing training, like, it got to the point sometimes it'd be like a Saturday, I'd be like, all right, today I'm gonna go to the gym, I'm gonna do an hour on elliptical, an hour on the bike, and then I'm gonna do an hour on the treadmill. I would just do 3 hours of cardio one day just because I'm like, I got nothing else to do.

Because you— yeah, I mean, now that you, you say it, um, because you can't travel more than an hour away. It's not like you really go sightseeing in Europe. Uh, yeah, yeah.

So you're just like, okay, so I just like, I'm just gonna stay on the base and I'm just going to just be here and just work out and train. And then we do our, we do our training, training, trainings, and then that was it. I got lucky, so I got to blow out to, uh, a couple of deployments with them. I got to do the, I got to go to Nigeria by myself to do embassy, uh, the embassy whole security plan thing because that's part of the mission. So I got to do that and then we got to blow out to South Sudan and then I got to do 2 weeks in Berlin waiting for my passport for Nigeria.

Okay, so let's start with the first one. Was it the Nigeria or South Sudan?

South Sudan was the first thing I got. Well, Ghana was the first thing we did. Ghana was the first thing we did. So when we landed in in Germany. We ripped out with them and then we went to Ghana to do a joint training with the Ghanaian special forces.

Oh, cool. Because that's another mission that the CRIF had over the years, correct me if I'm wrong, was to train the tier 1 elements of foreign countries and their hostage rescue units.

Yeah. So that's what we did. We trained with them and then we did I wouldn't say operations. I would say we did training events and everything with them and, uh, Six and SEAL Team Six.

And how did that go? What was your impression of Ghana?

Uh, it was great. Uh, they put us in a— called it resort. It wasn't a resort, okay? It wasn't a resort at all, but they put us up in a resort. Uh, it was baboons just walking around everywhere. That was different. The baboons would attack you. Uh, uh, you wake up, they had, uh, these 3 ladies that would make food, and like you ordered food in the morning. Like they make pancakes and fish and whatever you like, whatever was on the menu you could order. Um, that was there, and then we would literally just train nonstop, like with them for— that was 2 weeks. Every month I got to kind of go somewhere, so that was my first month there. We did 4 months there before coming back. So that was my first month. And then we did that for 2 weeks with them, training and doing, uh, missions.

That's pretty cool.

Training missions.

What was like the security threat in Ghana that you were kind of training these guys for? Was it terrorism? Yeah.

So they would look, uh, the, the operation we were actually training them for was, uh, they were more about terrorism and CQB and hostage rescue situations. That was like, we were hitting a lot of, uh, I guess you would call them hotels and apartment complexes. Like, that seemed like every time we did a training, that's what we were hitting.

Yeah. Maybe there were some fears after, like, Nairobi and things like that, that this was the threat profile.

Yeah. Because the hit that happened at the Hilton when they had that accident. Yeah.

So in Mali, it was a hotel, I think. And then it was a shopping mall in and Kenya, if I recall correctly.

Yeah, so we did a lot of training with them doing, uh, like every hit it seemed like we were hitting either apartment complex or some kind of a hotel complex.

And then you went back to Germany?

Yep, for 2 more weeks. And then I got to be— and then South Sudan happened.

Oh, okay. Well, yeah, so I mean, yeah, your feet are barely touching the ground here.

Yeah, so, and then South Sudan happened. So, uh, South Sudan happened. They were having a civil war because how they do their politics is, uh, Trump won the election, so Harris would be his vice president. So that's how they do their politics.

It's like a— it's a parliamentary kind of system. Yeah, yeah.

But what happened was— what happened was, yeah, everything starts good like that. So what happened was the guy who won the election won, but the guy who was getting put as the vice president was the military general who decided he was like, he was basically like, bump that, it's a coup.

Yeah, I think I should be in charge actually.

So that happened. And then, uh, so we, we actually had to, we got blown out for that. And the only reason honestly we got blown out is because the general that was post, that was, because we are, because when you're in Germany, you are the commander's crisis response force for the whole continent of Africa. So he doesn't want to send you out because guess what? If he sends you out, he doesn't have someone to respond to in Africa. So he wasn't, he wasn't there that day, and the general in, uh, Jabhat, the general there said send them. And he was like, and I'll just talk to— and I'll deal with him on the, on the flip side. Because we slept in the hangar for a day and a half. We just sat in the hangar for a day and a half waiting to be like, okay, are we going?

What was that? What was the feel? What was the feeling when you guys got the call and they were like, yeah, you got the green light, go?

Well, at that point we were sitting there, everything was on the birds and everything. We were just sitting in the hangars. I had my hammock up, attached to two things, laying in a hammock, just like, I don't know what we're doing, right? So we were just sitting there and then they were like, go. And I was like, oh shit, for real? Like, we're really going to do this? And so it was weird to go there. And then it was strange, like when we got off the bird and drove, when we landed, all the Americans, because so much stuff had happened, the Americans, they actually had a civilian plane for the Americans to get on, like that we escorted in with us. But the Americans, as we got off our plane, the C-130s, They got on and one lady and one late— no, one lady had got it real bad and she was like, she was like, I'm not getting off this plane. No.

Wow.

So she wouldn't get off the plane. So that civilian plane, no one even took because she just was like, I will not get off this plane. Like, this happened to me and it was a lot like, as you can know what I'm probably talking about.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So she was like, no. I'm not getting off the plane. Wow.

And you guys deplane, obviously you hit the airfield and this kind of like really is sort of the quintessential like CRIF mission, right? That they were designed to, if need be, fight their way to the embassy, complete the mission and fight back off the target. Right.

Oh, so yeah, we came off the— as we exit the trucks, I'm on top of the gun truck loaded with a .50 cal. Like ready to go, like whatever we're going to get into, we're here. As the trucks come off, we all pull the security right off the airfield. The Americans come in. The ambassador didn't want to leave. So then we had to convoy to the— to where the American compound was. And then we sat there for 2 weeks doing ops with the ambassador.

Wow. Like you were like escorting him to meetings and stuff.

Yeah. Escort nonstop.

Was that kind of dicey? I mean, in the midst of a civil war?

Yes, because before we even took off, the general had his Jag come out to talk to us, which is never a good sign. Right. And, and basically his— I remember this quote verbatim. They are at war. You are not.

So you can only shoot if you're shot at, basically.

Exactly. Yeah. So like, seeing, seeing, like, I saw them shooting at each other, but I'm just sitting there like, this is weird.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And also, also weird in the sense that, like, they probably don't care so much about you because you're foreign.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They're like, look, dude, you have nothing to do with this. Yeah. Yeah.

You're not part of this quarrel.

Yeah. But here's the problem you have is now the ambassador want to meet with one of the sides. Right. So you put me involved where now I got to make sure that, hey, you're not really trying to shoot at me, but we just happen to be in this building. Yeah.

Yeah. And it looks like you're taking sides even if you aren't.

Yeah. So, so it took— we were there for 2 weeks and then finally Obama— I don't know, the commander and then would talk, go to team sergeant, the commander would have meetings and stuff. And finally, I guess they got Obama to get on the phone with the ambassador and tell that person they needed to leave.

Yeah, we're pulling the plug.

Yeah, and then we all got to leave.

I heard a story about you guys and SEAL Team 6 actually working over there at the same time. Were those guys there at all?

I wouldn't say— in South Sudan?

Yeah, yeah.

I could say if they were there, I don't know anything about it.

Okay.

But when I went to meet with the guys to talk about when I was going to Nigeria, we were talking a lot. And, and from everything the guys were telling me was the only people— because, you know, find, fix, finish, right? So the only people that were really actioning a lot of stuff was the French.

Yeah, yep.

So that's what I was told when I was doing that, because I was trying to figure out the, uh, evacuation plan for the embassy in Nigeria.

Well, tell us about, uh, first, you know, blowing out of South Sudan, what the, the extraction was sort of like, if you you can call, or exfil maybe is a better term. Okay, so, uh, for us or for when the Americans, uh, for you guys when you, when you left with the ambassador?

Okay, so for us, when we left with the ambassador, at this point everything is already gone, uh, all the people are gone, but all their, all their belongings are still there. Everything is still there, like their rooms still full, clothes, everything's there. We didn't take any of that. Uh, so for us it was like we had to wait for our bird. So we, we were in the Americans, uh, living quarters, give or take, and it's basically a big compound which we couldn't secure because we don't have a platoon of Marines. So we have 12 dudes. So we basically have guys on every corner of the, of the compound that we— that's all we really can do. And then, uh, so we were just sitting there We have our gun truck stationed. We have one in the center and the rest are in the corner so we can actually do overlapping fire. And we just had rotations going on that for the 2 weeks. And then when it was time to blow out, we waited for the aircraft to land. And then our CCT had overhead just circling and doing show of forces to make sure like, hey, nothing bothers us.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So he was doing a lot of show of force, and then, uh, he did a show of force like when we all prepped and got in all the vehicles, all the up-armors and, uh, up-armored Humvees and up-armored SUVs to leave. Like, we had up-armored SUVs as well. So when we got that and all the planes had landed because they were escorted in, he did a show of force. And after the show of force, we immediately like took off and just started going down the road. And it was like a straight shot. Go out, make one left, and you were straight shot to the airport.

And the bird was there waiting for you?

Yeah, bird was there waiting for us. Everything was there. We just drove straight on.

Wow. And flew back to Germany.

Yep.

No, that's awesome. You got to do the job. That's pretty cool.

Yeah, it was. Didn't get to shoot no rounds, but yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, who knows what would have happened to that ambassador though if you weren't there.

That's true, that's true. Hope maybe they would have left.

So you, you get back to the mothership, uh, and what— and the next thing that happens is, is Nigeria.

Yes. So Nigeria. So, uh, I get tagged to go be be the guy to go do, uh, the Nigerian mission, uh, which you just basically go to the embassy. And every year guys go to embassies and we do security protocols, making sure the security is up to date, making sure everything is still where everyone's saying everything is, right? So if we ever have to go in there, we, we know where the doors are, what doors are what, who's going where, how many rooms are in there, everything. So I get hit with that. I fly to Nigeria by myself which I was like, oh, that's different. So I have to go to Berlin for 2 weeks. So I go to Berlin and I only got— I was there, I was supposed to be there for 2 days. And, uh, I get there and the, the embassy there in Berlin is closed, so I can't get my passport stamped to go to Nigeria. So I got to hang out in Berlin for 2 weeks, which was awesome, right? Right. Because I don't get to see nothing because we only can go an hour away. So this got me out of the base, right?

So I got to see Berlin for 2 weeks, just wander around Berlin, finally get my passport stamped, get back. The next week I get on a plane to go to Nigeria. I land, and, uh, when I land in Nigeria, there's a white guy there with my— with a thing says, uh, Sergeant First Class Harris. He's got a piece of paper, right? But it was a guy from 3rd Group that was in my company, in Charlie Company, that knew me and now worked down at Tampa. So when I got there, he was like, hey, are you Super Dave? And I was like, yeah, I'm Super Dave, because that's what the team sergeant called me on that other team, right? Because we did a lot of trips and a lot of deployments together. So he— I won't say I did nothing crazy, but he knew about— he knew me. So he was like, hey, you Super Dave? I was like, I'm Super Dave, yeah, that's me. And they was like, hey, so-and-so said what's up. Gray says what's up. And I was like, oh, Gray said what's up? Oh yeah, he does work Tampa. So we get in the vehicle and we drive to, uh, the hotel, the Hilton, which the Hilton was baller, but it was totally different than what you see here.

It's like you walking through, it's like going in the airport. Oh, like going to the Hilton? Yeah, like when you're going into the Hilton, it's like going through the airport.

All, all the metal detectors and TSA kind of stuff.

Yeah, everything is just like that. So you go in there, you get into the Hilton Uh, they're like, hey, we'll be here tomorrow to pick you up, blah blah blah blah blah. So what I didn't know was how it actually worked was, so they have a team from Tampa there, right? Then they had a guy from the Navy, like an air Navy guy. Then they had a CCT there, and then they have a— and then they have a MARSOC guy there, and all of us working together on this packet.

Gotcha.

And then everyone has a little piece Yeah, and then they had 4 civilians who are actually the guys like you come in and you'd be like, hey man, here, because they know, like, we're just— I'm like, yeah, here's the paper, this is the way the camera looks. And then he gets on the computer and does his whiz-bang stuff, and so that way it's all the diagrams in there. And then it'd be like, so I got put in charge of routes, cameras, and, uh, cameras at the embassy, and, uh door breaching, like how to get through each door. And that's what I did for almost a week and a half, just going around being like, okay, going to different embassies, meeting with the ambassadors and all that stuff, and just going in and going to every door. And then, uh, spun around and was like, all right. And then I don't know, I— one day the Marine guys there heard about what I did and they were like, hey, can you teach us CQB? So we stayed and I started teaching CQB to the Marines on site.

And so it's interesting because you're a CRIF guy, so it makes a lot of sense. They sent you sort of as a recon dude to do recon in case they ever had to go in and evacuate that embassy. You know, your team knows where everything is and exactly how that building is constructed.

And that's why you have the computer imagery. And so that way, all that stuff gets put in the computer database. And if anyone else has to do it, guess what they can pull up?

Oh, you mean like 3D imagery and stuff?

Yeah.

Oh, that's pretty cool. Yeah. So, and then I take it the CCT guy had the air piece and the MARSOC guy had like the ports and the amphib.

Yep. Yep. Everyone had all their own pieces and we just like, okay, hey, we're going to do routes today. And me and the Marsoc guy would get in the vehicle and I'd be like, all right, and I sit in the passenger seat and I'd be like, all right, turku right here. And I'd be like telling them and I'd be like, all right, here's this. This is the quickest way to the airport. That goes into the computer.

You know, we have been doing some operations in Nigeria over the last year or so. I mean, well, a few years now. Yeah. What was sort of like your impression of Nigeria and what it would be like trying to work there?

It was where we were by the embassies and all that stuff. It was urban. It was an urban environment. It was like, it was like any built-up major city. I would tell you that it was closer to, uh, I was in New York. It was closer to New York-ish than it is to like Charlotte. And what I mean is the buildings are really close. Like, it's not really like distance. I didn't really go into neighborhoods. I only was really down in the downtown areas, like where the Hilton was, where the Embassy was, where the American, right, right, that stayed, those areas. So it was really more like that. And then the highway-wise, unless you know the route you want to go or have maps and GPSs and stuff, everything was written. I mean, you ain't reading signs, so you better know where you want to go.

Uh, and then, uh, after you— after that, you headed back to Germany again?

Yeah, then I went back to Germany, and then we did our last, uh, week and a half, and then I came back to Bragg.

And was that kind of like winding down your time at the CRIF?

That was probably— I was, by that point, I was, uh, I was a 3 in my cell, and I was there, and then I had— I did about— I think I did 2 and a half more years there. I made it to, I was the one in my cells. I was the cell leader for about 2 and a half years. I was a cell leader and then I volunteered to go to Safarik.

What was like kind of the last, the subsequent like 2 and a half years like?

A lot of training, getting ready to go back to Germany.

Oh, okay. Oh, to rotate back over. I got you.

Yeah. Because it was 3 troops because they broke us down into 2 ODAs making a troop. So it was like, you do 4, you do 4, you do 4, you do 4, you do 4, you do 4.

So they also have you training for the, the counter WMD mission.

Yes, we did that as well. Yeah, that we did that. We went up to Virginia Beach and used the Sixes compounds up there to do a lot of that training.

Yeah, yeah. That's cool, man. And so you reached the kind of end of your time at the CRIF and then you go to CFAWC. So again, we should tell the listeners who don't know, the Special Forces Advanced Urban Combat Course.

Yes, sir.

And CFAWC is different than SFARDIC in that CFAWC is training the ODAs, not the CRIF, but the ODAs. On urban warfare CQB stuff. And that's an important course too, because the ODAs go through intact as a 12-man team, not like onesies and twosies. But I mean, let's hear it. You're the expert, Dave. You tell us.

Well, you exactly, you're 100% right. The difference between Safarik and Safarik is Safarik teaches basic POD CQB. At least when I was there, it was basic POD CQB. Safarik teach free flow CQB with an emphasis on hostage rescue. Sefowick does not. We do not get into the hostage rescue portion. Does that mean they won't never do it? No, that doesn't mean that. We don't get into teaching it.

Yeah. I mean, the ODAs don't have that mission. I mean, things would have gone really wrong if they're doing that.

Yeah. So I'm not saying it can never happen. I'm just saying that wasn't our mission to prep them for. So I got there at Sefowick and you do It's really hammering CQB and basics, like basic POD, point of domination CQB. How do you do that and the safest way to do it? And I did that for— I got to teach there for 3 and a half years.

That's cool. So it's just like company after company coming through your course?

Oh yeah, so it would be a company. It was like, uh, I saw probably every company Like, because it's mandated that every team goes once a year. Mm-hmm. At least when I was there, it was once a year. So they had to go every— I think it was once every 2 years because we couldn't see everyone. So it was once every 2 years. So literally, it's like we did a 6-week course, take 2 weeks off, another 6-week course, take a week, take 2 weeks off, another 6-week course. And that's just the rotation.

6 weeks is a lot too.

Yeah, so it was when I was there, we were teaching 6-week course. It was 2 weeks for CMMS, combat marksmanship, 2 weeks of CMMS. Then we followed that with 4 weeks of CQB.

And then there's like some kind of colex at the end, right?

Yep. So it was a colex. So we would do, so you do 2 weeks of CMMS and we, at the end of those 2 weeks, it was enrolled in that same 2 weeks, you would do a— it's called a, uh, stress shoot. And if you didn't pass the stress shoot, some guys wanted to kick dudes out, some guys we disagreed. It basically got voted if you don't pass the stress shoot, you get— have to shoot Sims and you couldn't shoot live bullets in the house.

Oh, I got you.

Yeah, because you're still with your team, you're not getting fired from your team. Yeah, so we can't not do that.

Yeah, yeah.

So we said, hey, you're not shooting live bullets in the house, you'll shoot Sims. So we made them shoot Sims and that was it. We just let them and that the training continued. And then after the week one, we did a, uh, it was called, um, an eval on CQB to make sure you understood basic CQB with a 3-room set before we started moving into breaching and choosing shotguns and explosive breaching and things of that such.

That's awesome. So it sounds like you like doing that.

Oh yeah, I loved it. I still love it. I was the primary instructor for CQB for 2 years and then I became the primary instructor for combat marksmanship for a year. And then after that, I did my last 6 months and then I got out.

You want to tell us about that, like last 6 months, what it was like leading up to your retirement and kind of how that felt after your, you know, pretty long Army career?

Uh, so for me it was strange, as in I, uh, I knew what I wanted to do the whole time I was at Safarik. I knew I wanted to get out and train people. I knew I wanted to continue that. So I was like, okay. So I kind of started prepping it while I was in. Like, I would teach on a Friday and drive and do a class some other state on a Saturday and drive through the night on Sunday night to get back for Safarik Monday morning. And I was doing that on my own. And, um, my last 6 months, I'll be honest, when I signed out on terminal leave, and I already been working with Vortex Optics. So the day I signed out on terminal leave, Vortex called me and was like, are you ready to go?

That's pretty cool.

And let's get— let's do it.

And what is, uh, I mean, obviously they make optics, but can you talk a little bit about like the products that Vortex makes?

Uh, they make a— they are— I, I call them the Walmart of optics. And I mean by that is if you have a budget like, hey, I have a $200 budget, it's an optic we have for that. If you are like, hey, I want to buy $3,000, like top of the line, we have optics for that. So they are the number one optic company, the biggest optic company in the world right now.

That's pretty cool.

And they, uh, sell a lot of optics. And they also have a golf line. I don't know where that came in. And so does that—

that's— I mean, first off, that's great that you had a post-retirement job lined up right away. Yeah. And what has that been like? I remember you were saying that they have you traveling all over the country.

Yeah. So my, my— I'm a contractor for Vortex, but how it was explained from them to me is my company runs their training. So I had to make my own LLC and started my own company, and I run their training through them. So cops hit me up, I handle all scheduling, all the planning, everything, and we go around this country teaching cops free of charge.

And is it teaching them how to use those Vortex products?

No.

Oh, it's anything, really?

Yeah, we go to any agency and teach them, hey, you got red dots and you need to write Pistol Red Dot Transition Corps. We don't care what dot you have. We want you to get training.

Okay.

That's pretty cool though. Yeah. Vortex wants you to go home at the end of the shift.

Yeah. Yeah. No, that's super cool. And you're still doing that today?

Yeah. I started when I got out and we've been going and we are now booking into February of 2028.

Oh my God. What? 2028? Yep. What else do you got going on over there? And you're still in the Fort Fort Bragg area.

Uh, yes sir.

What, what else is keeping Dave Harris busy nowadays?

Uh, so when I'm not doing that, I am, uh, when I'm not training cops, I go to shoot competitions on my own free time, or I train like dry fire and stuff. And then in the meantime, I've been married for 21 years. My daughter's 20. I've been married going on 22 years December 3rd. My daughter's 21, my son is 17. So every once in a while I have to act like I love them and do stuff with them. But for the most part, if I'm not doing something with my family, I'm training.

I'm shooting guns. So you're shooting IPSC or long range?

Yeah. USPSA, IPSC, 2-gun. I left, stopped shooting 3-gun just because I was like, I don't see the purpose of the shotgun for what I do. Yeah.

Anything else that you want to talk about that I didn't ask?

No, I mean, I hope— is there anything you— that I didn't talk about?

No, no, I think we covered a lot of ground, man. And I really appreciate you sharing your story with us.

I appreciate you having me, man.

Yeah, absolutely. And shout out to Jay for putting us in touch.

Yes, Jay. Yeah, he's a great guy, man.

Yeah, yeah. Jay's awesome. So yeah, Dave, where can people find you if they want to, you know, inquire about training? Are you on like LinkedIn? Is there a website or anything that people should check out?

Yes, you can go to HarrisStrategicSolutions.com. You can go there. You can hit me up on Harris Strategic Solutions on Instagram. Right. You can hit me there directly. Both of those go directly to my email. You also can go to iwi.us. And they have a tab on there, IWI Vortex Optics collab, and you can go there and it tells you a breakdown of every class we teach, everything we do. And at the bottom, it's a request form, and the request form goes directly to my phone. And as soon as I get the email, I'll hit you back.

That's awesome, man. Um, well, we'll have some links down in the description for people that are watching this or listening. Um, but Dave, I really appreciate your, uh, time. Spending some, uh, you know, some of your Wednesday night with us.

Um, I appreciate you having me, man.

Yeah, thanks for doing it. And, uh, everyone else out there, we'll see you guys next time. Thanks for joining us. Hey guys, I want to take a moment to tell you about the TeamHouse Podcast newsletter. If you go and subscribe, it's totally free, and what it will do is aggregate all of our data, all of our content that we put out, the things that are on the TeamHouse, on our geopolitics podcast Eyes On, things that I write journalistically with Sean Naylor on The High Side, anything else that we have going on, books we recommend, upcoming guests that we have coming on the show, and also filtering in some fun stuff in there as well. If you've got and check it out. We send it out just once a week. We don't want to spam you guys. It's just a kind of roll-up of all of our content on a weekly basis. You can find our newsletter at teamhousepodcast.kit.com/join. Again, the website for that is teamhousepodcast.kit.com/join. Uh, so we hope to see you there. The link will be down in the description.