Transcript of 20 Years at War: A Ranger Regiment Story | Luis Saucedo

Hey guys, welcome to The Team House. I'm Jack Murphy here with our guest tonight, Louie Salcido. He served in a number of different infantry units, uh, WIRS, and then went to the 75th Ranger Regiment, served in 375, went over to snipers, lots of deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, and some other interesting stuff too, um, before he went over to the SFAB, which was a new unit a training and advisor unit that we'll get into. But Louie, first off, thank you for joining us on the show.

Hey man, thanks for having me. It's a real pleasure. I love everything about your books.

Oh, thank you.

I need to get— Yeah, awesome. I really like the genre and everything that I know you— I've met Jack Carr a couple of times and that dude's an awesome guy too, but just how y'all write, Fantastic.

Oh, thank you. Yeah, no, I really appreciate that, man. So let's start at the beginning. If you can tell us a little bit about how you grew up and how that took you into the military.

Man, so yeah, so that's a funny story. So I grew up to, my dad's a cop in Dallas. He's like a 37-year veteran. Of the Dallas Police Department. My mom was a dental hygienist of all things and kind of middle class. But we had the, I always tell people, it was like we had the, me and my brother had the picturesque, like growing up kind of American experience where we went to high school. I played soccer, I played a ton of sports. Me and my brother got into wrestling roughly about the same time. And we did wrestling all through high school. And so that, I think, especially the wrestling portion, because you hear a lot about guys— I think I ran into mostly guys in regiment that had— they were all wrestlers, every single one of them. And so it's— it's— I, I kind of laugh about that. It's like, I think the same amount of suffering that you did in wrestling kind of translated into suffering in other parts of your life. So you could do it real well. Like when you were— a lot of the times we were running around, not eating, sitting in bags and wearing trash bags while we're doing everything.

So it's like it was a level of suffering that you put yourself through to attain a goal, to just get out and fight on the mat, to get to that wrestling match. And that, I think, really, really translated into, the type of suffering that you would do later. Um, past that, like, my dad had had a lot of aspiration, big aspirations for us. He wanted us to be an officer. Or one of us to be. He was like, hey, if you're gonna go in the Army— I always knew that I was gonna go into the military, uh, and so he had always had big aspirations for— he was like, you're gonna go an officer, we're gonna try to send you to West Point or Annapolis or this is— I, I wanted to be a pilot until I found out I was dyslexic, uh, and that doesn't work real well for the pilots. Uh, so it, uh, I've gotten into all of that, uh, wrestling and everything, kind of knew that my path was going to be in the military, and then 9/11 happened, and I was a junior in high school when 9/11 happened. So, and everybody, you get the same kind of response from everybody where they're like, hey, uh, where were you during 9/11?

And I can remember exactly where I was, and then the thought process of, okay, now, now I know I'm going into the military, right? Um, I didn't know how long I was going into the military for. I thought I was going to do a like a 4-year stint, and I was going to follow my dad's footsteps and go to the Dallas Police Department. So that's, that's kind of really like the, the growing up portion that led me into going into the military. Had there not been a war, I probably wouldn't have stayed as long as I did. But definitely the way my father and my mother raised us, we were Americans. We lived in a place called Little Mexico for a little while, and then we moved to Carrollton. And my dad was always like, "You're not a Mexican. Like, don't listen to what everybody says. You're not Mexican, you're an American." So me and my brother pretty much raised on that, took that into heart. And then we just liked doing the hard stuff. We got into, I had the risk factor that was always there, I think with all guys that, do what we do.

Uh, I got into a lot of trouble, like a ton of trouble. Uh, I, uh, I went to parties, I drank, uh, and I really knew that college kind of wasn't going to be for me, so I didn't never planned on it, uh, plan on it. And then, uh, yeah, so I joined— I tried one year, one semester of college, and then I, I called it.

And you and your brother both joined, um, were there a few-year gap between the two of you?

So there's a 2-year gap between when— so me and him are actually 2 years apart, and there's a year and a half to 2-year gap between when we joined. Uh, so I had joined in 2004 and graduated everything in May, and I was stationed at Fort Riley, Kansas, and then as soon as I got there, I was gone. Probably, I think it was like 3 months later. Like I got promoted to Sergeant First Class, or not Sergeant First Class, Private First Class, like on the airfield when it was snowing, getting on the bird to go to, go back, go into Iraq.

And what was Iraq like for you in 2004?

Oh gosh, that place was the Wild West. Like the, so, Everything had just stopped and it had just transferred over to OIOP2. We got there, landed in BIOP. They're still doing the, I don't know if you had ever gotten into BIOP, probably did, but they were still doing the drops. So they were the combat drops when they would fly and they'd just, they'd take that aircraft and then they'd be like, okay, everybody hold on. And they just nose that thing right into like right to the ground. And we— that was— I think that was the first time I realized, like, that, hey, this could be real. Because I'm sitting there and I'm just like, have all my crap. I'm like, like 19, 20 years old. And I'm looking down the road and there's people throwing up into their shirts, on the floor. It's going all over the place. You've got the lotis are laughing on the other side. And I was just like, oh, okay, so this is— they're either trying to scare us or we're scared of something. Yeah, we landed in the middle of the night, got there, and then that deployment was pretty— I was in Camp Taji, Iraq, and so we're right there on MSR Tampa.

And it was funny because we just knew that that was the big IEDs. Hadn't the EFPs hadn't started happening yet. I would meet those later on, early 2006, '07. And so we were really just scared of the 155s and it was just random firefights and it was All of it was super surreal when I think back about it because we would go down Route Irish, we'd do stuff, we'd be heading down into the green zone, taking people in or pulling people out or going on mission. And right there on Route Irish, there was a bridge. And as soon as you cross that bridge, first little tick I got into is, "We're coming out." And as soon as you cross that bridge, everybody's shooting. From both sides of the freeway, and it's just all fires coming in on you. Everybody's— you're driving, you— the gunners are shooting, they're— we're shooting back at them, they're shooting at us. And then you cross, probably about a mile over, you cross back over and it's over. It's like somebody turned like a spigot off. And so I was just like, this is— it, it got really surreal at one— at a couple points where it was just like, this isn't real life.

Like, we're living, we're living in some alternate universe where this is happening.

—where you're just sort of like, I can't believe that happened. Yeah.

Like, it's like I was like, so that's my first firefight is me sitting in this, like, the rear, the rear of this vehicle. And we're just getting dinged. You know, we're getting stitched up a little bit, but we're not really scared of what they're doing. And it was funny because the unit that was bringing us in, because we were ripping out with them, was just like, everybody good? And they, like, it was a normal day. Like, that was just— there's like, hey, somebody passed me that rip-it down there. We're like— I'm like, sure, here you go, buddy. Uh, so yeah, so just, just a very, um, surreal experience as soon as, like, how Iraq was then. Um, and then through the entirety of it, it was, it was that— it was kind of that the entire time. We had a couple things, uh, there was a road right on MSR Tampa going north towards Anaconda, there was a mosque, it was called Mushatta Mosque. And for some odd reason, they really liked shooting down Blackhawks and they did it a couple times. And so every time it happened, the response was, is we'd go down there and we'd get into a huge firefight with them.

And it'd be like a 2-day tick. And then we'd be like, "All right, that's it. The show's over. Everybody go back home. We did what we said." And then we'd go back to, we'd go back to Taji and hang out there. And the surreal part about it was funny. And later on I thought about this, was that we were having like Friday night boxing matches at the USOs, at the, uh, or at, yeah, the MWR, right in front of that PX right there on Camp Taji. Uh, they were having like volleyball tournaments, and so it was like a little town. We had a haunted house, uh, in October. I didn't get to go to it because we were running missions out, but like they put together in these old abandoned buildings in on that camp, they put together like haunted houses and stuff like that. So we were getting— I was getting like this weird feel of like, hey, like outside the— I go outside the gate a lot and it's like every man for himself, the Wild West. And then you come back in here and it's like, hey, there's just people.

It's like a Boy Scouts jamboree or something.

Yeah, like it's, it's— it was, it, it was an introduction that I probably will never forget. 'Cause you go into, you read books and you watch movies and you think war's one way. And then you get there and you're just like, oh, this is nothing like what they told me it was gonna be.

Yeah, those were the—

You'd be mad if you didn't get the next Hodge DVD, you know, that month.

Those were the years where like you guys would be playing video games, hit the pause button when you had to go on a mission go and do it, get into a firefight, come back, sit right back down on the couch. Yeah.

Start the game again. Yeah, it was all— yeah, you just come right back and you'd start playing. Or what was the— my favorite thing was we would just come and hang out and we had chess games going on for like days and we'd go leave just like that. We'd go leave and then we'd come back and we'd play chess and we'd be like, all right, whose move is it? Or the biggest one is you start a fistfight over Risk because somebody, somebody moved your part. I think our platoon got banned from Risk a couple times because they started a massive, like, fight. It was like, you're a cheater. It's like, they were like, all right, well, we can't do this anymore because, uh, the privates are out there getting wild with each other. And that was the other thing too, the Army was a lot different, uh, then. Uh, it was, I would say, it was more kind of what we, we knew it to be. Um, where like if I had a problem with another private, I just walked outside and we just fought it out. And so wall-to-wall counseling was a thing. Oh yeah, like E5s would— I'm not gonna say they'd hit you, but they would, they'd rough you up a little bit just to get it through your head.

Some privates were physically corrected, that's all.

Yes, they're physically into the wall several times. I was one of those hard-headed privates. So I think any good NCO, when you did well in the military, you always remember, you're like, yeah, I was that hard private. I was the one that was slightly out of control. And me at 20, I had the biggest ego on the planet. I was like, I can outdo you at everything. Could I? No, not really, but I tried.

Well, that's a good personality asset to sort of have that to take you into special operations, but we'll get there. But you, after that deployment, you went over to WIRS.

Yeah, so I went out to 4th ID. I was an E-4 and it was funny because you get there, I'm pretty much volunteering to get onto the next thing. So I moved from Riley to Hood, get there and I was just like, hey, like I want to get on to the next thing. Uh, got picked up, uh, physically fit. I'm at that point like I'm in a, a good place, kind of, uh, like I said, physically, which is really the only thing that matters. I could have been dumb as a box of hair, but as long as you can run your 2-mile in like, you know, 11 minutes, you're great. Like you're the, you're the, you're the next best thing. Uh, so got into that and immediately, uh, 2006 redeployed over to, um Ras al-Mayah, Iraq. So we were right in the middle of Baghdad, and we get there, and this is not the most scared that I was ever, but when I realized I was just like, oh, things, things are slightly out of hand here because the surge was just starting up. We get in there and we get into it. So the normal thing, we get into a biop, get taken to biop.

By this time I've done it already. And so we're getting in, and they get us in in the middle of the night. Well, as we're coming in, there's rockets slamming into this camp. And if anybody— if you know anything about Restomaya, it sat in between two large radio towers. And so bracketing— that's a bracketing— that's perfect for bracketing. And so we were getting at— we were driving in that night and getting rockets rockets were hitting vehicles that we were coming— not our vehicles that we were coming in on, but where they were having the motor pool. You could see them slamming into the motor pool. And as we're coming in, they're like, the people, like, get— it was almost like a Vietnam movie where they're just like, get off, get off, we got to go. And we're getting off and running right into a bunker and getting into these bunkers. And that's, hey, welcome to Ras al-Mayah, Iraq. And it was funny because that day, the next morning we're getting everything set up. We hadn't slept. We're finding where we're going to be living for the next year. And this guy, they come and tell us, they're like, hey, we had a casualty last night from one of the other companies.

And we're like, what happened? This guy had been in country for 18 hours and a rocket had snuck its way between because it was built, it was hardstand buildings, but they had the sandbags that were built up with barriers, and one had snuck right between the barrier and the roof of the building and hit his door and put frag all over him. Uh, so he was in— I think they said he was in the country for 18 hours and was being evaced that day. Jesus. And so that was kind of the realization that we were in— things, things weren't like— the surge was real, things were getting kind of crazy. And we, as soon as we got in, they were like, hey, y'all are going out. I think we, we did a sort of left seat, right seat ride, and then we were, we were to the races.

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What was that? I mean, what did that consist of? Because a WORST team, of course, is long-range reconnaissance. I mean, that's what they're designed for anyway. But what was the actual mission that you guys had when you got to Iraq?

Though it was strange because it was, we were, but we were basically like an area denial. We sat in a COP and then we were running operations out of that COP and we were tasked to watch an MSR. We were tasked to do operations on that MSR. So they essentially, we got used as just a normal infantry company. So not saying it was mismanaged, but I think that was the sign of the times. Like, yeah. At that time during the surge, we were just trying to regain control. And Russ and I, that area was one of the areas that was really contested at that point in time. I can't remember the cop's name, but we were in a COP, and we had been in this COP for maybe— this is a great one, and we actually have a yearly retelling of this story. So we're in a COP. We'd been in there for maybe like, uh, 4 or 5 weeks running operations out of it. Uh, it's, it's pretty much like there's a barracks on the top floor, uh, the bottom floor has another set of barracks, and then we have like a bay that operated, and all of our trucks were in this like courtyard, and that's kind of where we did everything out of.

It had— we had fuel tanks, we had like small guard shacks, but this thing wasn't very This thing wasn't very big, it was maybe 500, 600 meters.

Yeah, those COPs were like Vietnam-era firebases.

Yeah, no, and so one night a guy named Pritchard and another guy named Sprouse were— they were sitting on top of this deck smoking, and normal night, like we had gotten out of the mission, everybody comes in, some people are eating. I was in the barracks playing cards and So we hear a thump, thump, thump, and then like explosions on the building. Like not, not around the building, it was on the building. And then we start hearing the guns go off on the towers. Uh, as we're running out, Sprouts and Pritchard are running back in and they're screaming at everybody like, don't go out there! So what kicked this off was they were smoking and Sprouts and Pritchard look up and Sprouts even says— and Pritchard says this every day— he's like, He told me, he looked at me in the face and told me this. He goes, man, that's a weird shooting star. As they're looking at it, it keeps getting closer and closer and closer, and as it does, it lands right in the middle of their smoke pit. It's an inert, uh, mortar. Doesn't it— doesn't go off. And by all rights, that thing should have killed both of them.

So they're running in, they're scared, like they've just had this near-death experience, trying to keep us from all running out. So we're pinned That's the only way out is that little stairway. We're pinned inside of that little thing while there's a huge fight going on. And the tanker company that we're attached to is downstairs. They don't have tanks at this point, so they're doing their best. They're out trying to get out to the walls. And it was funny because my best friend, he was my best man at my first wedding in true Ranger fashion. Um, he's the best man at my first wedding. Uh, his name's James Dyer. Uh, he's now Major, which he— this man, he's amazing. He was an amazing soldier. He still is. Uh, I laugh every time I say Major because I'm like, nobody should have ever given him that. But, uh, so James is— luckily enough, James had been, had been a washout in EOD school in like the last week washout. Like, he got drunk and they, they got, they got upset at him, so he washed out the last week. So he's got— he knows a little bit.

So what does he do? He's like, okay, well, I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna see if I can at least put some sandbags around this thing. So he goes out there, does the EOD thing, puts a bunch of sandbags, and we all take off and run. Uh, we spend the entire next— that night repelling an attack, uh, where they knock down of the 4 walls that was at that COP, they knocked down 3 of them. Holy shit. And one of the major things that happened, and James and Sean Myers, another guy, so we were all in the same squad. Sean was the squad leader. Me and James were his team leaders. And so during all of this action, the trucks are all sitting right there. They get hit by mortars and they get a fuel tank goes off on them. And so they're kind of, they're burning. On the side. And we— so we now have no vehicles either, uh, but all of the AT-4s are in there. And somebody's like— is the— they're like, hey, are all the AT-4s still on the trucks? Like, yeah. And they're like, if those things go off, we're fucked.

Uh, and so James and Sean run into this raging fire and start plucking out all these AT-4s. Uh, both of them end up with Bronze Stars, uh, for it, which was that one of— one of the many actions that they did during that entire deployment that actually got recognized. But that was one of the nights where it was just like, holy crap. It was like, this is like Viet— like you said, like Vietnam style. Yeah, yeah. Attack on a base.

Were you guys like preparing to be potentially overrun?

No, I mean, was it that bad? So once they are, I want to say that our own maybe mortars had knocked down our own walls at some point in time. And so I wasn't sure because we're busy on one side side. But there was a point where we had thought, we were like, hey, if this goes down the way everybody thinks is— luckily we had gotten air support overhead, so we'd gotten attack helicopters. But we end up like, we're saying, hey, if we have to, we're going to have to drop back into the buildings. And once that happens, we are in a bad way. Luckily, we had repelled enough of the attack, and I think we had, we had had enough firepower out there. We, you know, we come with a bunch of machine guns and everything like that, um, that we had gotten them to get away from us. And once the attack aviation shows up, they pretty— that was their recipe. It's like, hey, we're not, we're not messing with this. What's the kibosh on that? Oh yeah, uh, what ended up happening with that COP is they— that was unusable anymore. They weren't going to send anybody out.

That thing was gone. And we ended up having to move to another one that we lovingly called Castle Grayskull, uh, because it was a— all it was was a 5-story, uh, unfinished parking garage. Oh shit, that they put barriers around. And you finished your deployment out of there?

What's up? You finished the deployment out of there?

Yeah, we ended up finishing the deployment out of there. Um, lots of good stories with that, actually. Uh, have you heard of Tales from the Grid Square? No, uh, it's a like collection of ghost stories from the GWAT. Oh really? Super. Yeah, it's, uh, it's on, uh, IG. I love reading their stuff and I listen to, uh, Wartime Stories, gets a lot of their stuff off of YouTube. But, uh, I love reading stuff. I'm about to write one because we're pretty sure that place was haunted. Uh, what it ended up happening— parking garage? Yes. Well, so the reason why we had gotten it at such a good price was because during the invasion, before the American forces came in, the Ba'athists had taken all the people who were not friendly to the Ba'athists, and the story was, and we had gotten told this by an elder, was that they had gotten all these guys and rounded them up in that building and then took them to the top, right above the top floor. So you had the overlook, the top floor where all of our machine gun nests were, but right underneath that, they brought them all up there and then they had, uh, shot them and set them on fire.

Jesus. In there. And so what was the crazy thing is when we were first looking at it, we walked up to that and I, I've smelled a dead body or two burn before, uh, and I walk up there, I was like, that's a familiar smell. And a couple of the other guys who had been around burning bodies been like, this smells weird, uh, and then we were like, what's all these marks on these, these burn marks on the ground? And turns out, like, any— the— even the Iraqi police, the IA, they would— whenever we were staging to do missions, would not go into that building at all, period. And we definitely heard some weird stuff up there. So I don't know if it was like large animals or something, but there was, there was a point in time where guys would not go up there with their NODs on. They would turn their NODs off, they would, they would follow the stairwell, and then they turned their NODs on as soon as they got to the the very top.

I mean, were they like hearing voices or something?

What do you think? So at night when we knew nobody was up there, uh, you would hear like things moving around. Um, one of the big complaints was either knobs would completely go dead— they were the old PBS-14s, so like they would go dead for any, any reason— but the— it was the, uh Everybody had seen it, and I saw a little bit of something. And I'm, you know, you never want to say that you saw something to anybody else outside of it, but, uh, you would see shadows do things that like they weren't really supposed to be doing, right? And so, and I would always chalk it up to, oh, there's a light somewhere way out in the distance, it's shining, and it's, it's moving shadows like that. But, uh, a lot of guys would be like, yeah, I just don't turn my NODs on.

Yeah, like you're trying to talk yourself out of it.

Yeah, you're like, I have to go to this guard shift. If they don't, if I don't go up there, somebody's gonna be real mad. And I'm more scared of that sergeant than I am of whatever's up here. So I'm just gonna go up there and just pretend it didn't exist.

I did many years ago now, I did a Halloween episode for a different podcast where I kind of COVID some of these stories. And I got a guy to tell a pretty cool story about Okinawa. There's a lot of ghost stories out there.

Oh, about the, what is it, Gate 3? I hear a lot about.

Some abandoned buildings and stuff. There's some weird stuff. And actually from Iraq, there are quite a few UFO stories, which is probably, probably it's our guys seeing our own aircraft, you know, more than likely. But there are some stories that you hear and like, like things that an entire Marine battalion saw that like doesn't really make sense.

You know? Yeah. I like too how like a lot of these stories get, because you'd hear a lot of stuff. Um, we spent a night out in the old, uh, Iraqi intelligence, um, uh, their complex at like— so on a lot of the videos you watch tomahawks slamming into like a, uh, like almost triangle building, and then there's, uh, uh, they would be like, that's still Iraqi intelligence, uh, compound. And we actually stayed the night in that, and they have legit cells that were very strange and that's where we were sleeping, and none of us slept in there. We slept in the— we went ahead and slept in— it's jail, it's jail cells, cells. And then there's a walkway that you go up, and you can see that there's, um, uh, eyelet, uh, metal eyelets on the ground, and you could pretty much guess what they were for. But you would look up, and it's a walkway, and it's completely— there's no cover, there's no nothing. It's a walkway, and then there's these eyelets on the ground, and they're spaced pretty evenly. And later on we asked about that. We were like, hey, what's going on with this?

And they're like, oh, that's where they chained them. That's where they just sat them out in the sun and chained them down there. And I was like, yeah. And it was funny because our platoon sergeant, he's like, yeah, we're not sleeping in there. We're like, we'll just sleep out on our trucks, man.

I think I know some platoon sergeants that would have loved to lock their privates up in that place.

Oh God, yeah. There would have been privates Oh man, it's so wild.

I mean, Iraq does have this, like, parts of it have this quality. It does have a haunted quality to it. I remember like seeing places where you can see just the very top of the foundations of buildings that no longer exist. Yeah. And then, and then the new buildings built like perpendicular or opposite to it. Like the, the city plan actually changed. And these new buildings are built over these old ones. It's just like, this place is so ancient.

It's unreal. Oh man, we got into, so one of the ticks that we got into was right outside of the Babylon Gate. So there's Babylon Gates right to the north of, to the north of Bayab, right when you're getting into the Green Zone, there's like ancient, there was a wall there that they were like, yeah, that's part— that used to be— this is where the Babylon Gate was. We got it. I was like, I remember like being by that gate or by that wall and being shot at from it and be like, this is— I was like, this must be where he said that this was. I was like, this is super cool. So, uh, but yeah, I think that's one of the coolest things about the military in general, going to that area. Like, the GWAT was— the GWAT was the GWAT. But the things that you got to go and see, like who— how many people can say that they've been to Baghdad? And Baghdad is— was almost the— that's in the cradle of civilization. So you're— all of the history that you hear about and read about, the Bible, everything like that, a lot of that stuff went through there.

Uh, and I was— so I, I love history, and I was always really a— really cognizant of stuff like that. Um, when I was in Northern Iraq, I'd be looking up, uh, names and stuff like that, and they can almost get translated into the Bible. And that's part of— oh yeah, Northern Iraq is part of where, like, uh, a lot of the Old Testament—

I mean, Nineveh is in the Bible, I believe. Yeah, I believe the Nineveh Forest is actually in the Bible.

Yeah. And so that's— it's, it's weird because you're traveling all through these places. And, uh, I think one of the cooler trips I did is we were going to check on, uh, on some of the Kurds, and we were going towards the Iranian border. It's gorgeous, beautiful, like mountains. Like, I've, uh, there's a couple pictures of us where we're— looks like we're at the top of the world there. I know exactly what you're talking about.

Yeah, yeah.

And, and you're just like— and I'm like, man, I was like, it's crazy that there's this much conflict and war going on in such a gorgeous place. Um, I think like part of where we were at, there was an old ski resort there, and it's like these people used to be pretty, uh, especially Iraq. If you think about Iraq in the '80s, um, that was like a thriving metropolis. Like, it was— they had nightclubs, they had, uh, they had industry, uh, and then, you know, the wars kind of set them back probably about like 60 or 70 years.

But, you know, yeah, man. Uh, and, and so after that deployment, you get back, and when does like the 75th Ranger Regiment start sort of like entering into your mind?

I'm fantastic you asked that question. I know exactly when it happened. So we were walking down a route that had an IED strike, probably an EFP. It wasn't an IED, it was an EFP. So one of the terrible things about the EFP when that started filtering in from Iran was that they were blowing holes and chunks through all of our armor. And so I was there during the period of time where it was like All our vehicles looked like they had come out of Mad Max because they were trying to find any way, crazy ways. It was like ammo cans with glow plugs in them because hopefully, like, maybe we can catch them if they have heat, if they're not victim-operated. So going through that, we would see these vehicles just get crushed by EFPs, you know, a couple of them the size of like 55-gallon drums that would just nuke an entire thing. You'd hear about all— they would drag I think that was one of the worst things that they drag them into, Rastamaya, and there's still blood and gore all over it. You were like, yeah, they didn't. And it's funny because whenever I think about that, did you ever see, uh, the movie Memphis Belle?

Um, no. World War II movie, uh, about the bombers, uh, the bomber crews. Uh, and it was about one, one bomber that had made it all the way through. Uh, but the— it reminded me of— because I saw that movie when I was a kid and then it reminded me of that, of them pulling these planes out, like, back down the runway after they've gotten into a fight. And there's— you could tell somebody died in it. And that was a lot of when they were pulling these vehicles out from EFPs, uh, was that you could tell nobody— like, there's a huge— there's a hole that goes in one door, out the other, through the radio mount, and there's gore and blood everywhere on it. No one made it out of that. Um, so that was happening a lot. So what did they do? Instead of it, they're like, hey, this, uh, they're gonna walk us in front of it because we're going to do a route reconnaissance. So in a V, in an inverted V, we're walking down a route picking at things, hoping that that EFP doesn't hit us first. Uh, and when I asked the question, because there's a, you know, million-dollar vehicle behind me, the Buffaloes, and I was like, these things are meant to take that.

Yeah. I was like, why am I walking in front of it? And they're like, you cost less than that would to blow it up. Your— whatever we have to pay your family.

I never understood why, why they did that. I mean, if you study World War do. The Nazis always have their infantry behind the tank. It's not in front.

Nobody does that. That's stupid. Yeah. And we were doing it down the routes. And I think whenever we got the training and everything for it, it was that you did that and maybe that first guy would be far enough away from the road to catch anything that was victim-operated. But if it was pressure plate or anything like that, you're done. Yeah, you're toast. So I'm walking down there and I'm just like, so wait a second. That Buffalo is more important than I am at this point, or any of my friends or anybody else. And it was, uh, they were like, yeah, yeah, pretty much. So, uh, we've gotten into a couple things, and command I think was making some bad decisions. We had a friend of ours get killed. Um, I won't put out any names, but in an instance where a person of leadership had put their TC into the back position into the TC position because they knew they were targeting those— they were targeting the TCs. And that's exactly what happened. And then that guy, that leader, survived while a bunch of our friends did not. And so we had taken a couple casualties at that point.

A guy named Josh Plesika, who was an E-4 at the time, he got killed by an EFP. And so we had a lot of, we started getting casualties and that's when it started becoming real. And I had an epiphany at one point in time where I'm sitting there, I'm just like, like, I gotta get somewhere where like my life matters a little bit more. Like that I've upped the price tag on me and myself so that if I'm gonna keep doing this, like I'm gonna survive. So my brother, had just gotten in the Army and just passed RIP and had gotten into 375. And so that was one of my phone calls to him. I was just like, hey, I was like, I think I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go to selection, like, and if I don't make selection, I'm getting out. I'm not going to do this anymore. My brother's a very— was a very liked person in 375, even from a private. Everybody really liked him. Um, he's just one of those guys. And so as I'm talking to him about this. I'm getting close. I was just like, hey, I'm going to selection as soon as I get— the second I get back, second they'll let me, I get off that plane, I'm going to selection.

My brother's like, so you want to go what, be a teacher? He's like, you want to go teach people to do stuff? And I was just like, what does that mean? I'm a regular Army dude. So at this point, I think Green Beret is just like, I'm going to be kicking in doors. I'm going to be doing all the cool stuff. Like, it's gonna be fun. And my brother's just like, yeah. He's like, so here's the thing. He was just like, Green Berets don't do direct action. He's like, and he's in the regiment. He's like, we do direct action. He's like, that's all we do. And I was just like, at that point I was just like, cool, how do I do this? He's like, let me get back to you. Let me figure some stuff out. I'll email you here in a bit. The next email I get is from Ben Durham,, from 375, or he was at the point, I think at that point he was the, um, career counselor. And it's basically an email.

I'm almost positive I know Durham. You probably do. Ben is, uh, he was, he was, uh, on the, uh, jump into Iraq. Yes. Yeah, I know Durham.

Yeah, he's a good guy. Durham's, uh, one of the best guys in the world, one of the most shadiest people I've ever met.

Maybe that's why they had him working in the arms room.

Uh, so he was actually, uh, he climbed up all the way to be the regimental, uh, career counselor. Good for him. And like, yeah, he did, uh, real well. He was, uh, in charge of the fight teams. Yeah, yeah, he was a boxer for regiment. Yeah, he did all of that. Yeah, yeah, uh, ran his own fight program and everything. He did a lot, but I didn't know him at that time yet, but he He sends me, it's just an email and it's like, click here to apply. Like, and it's like, I click it and they're like, have this printed out, have your commander sign it, give it back to me. So I'm just like, all right. So I go get my commander to sign it. And it was funny because I was at that point, I was really good friends, me and my friend, my squad leader at the time, Sean Myers and James, we were kind of all at the same point where we were disenchanted with the war and how things were going. And kind of the regular Army lifestyle. So, uh, I get everything together, I get it, everybody signs my paperwork, and I'm, uh, pretty much on board.

Like, I think I was gonna get back, I was gonna have the 2 weeks to leave, and then I was going right to, um, uh, RIP. And so I— we do that, I'm having a conversation with them, I'm like, hey, I'm gonna do this. And they were both like, no, I think we're done. And I'm like, I was like, why don't y'all just come with me? I was like, I'm pretty sure they're looking for people. We can, we can all get into this. Both of them said no. I'm the only one that said yes. And, uh, to this day when I talked to, uh, James— Sean actually died a couple years ago, uh, but when I talked to both of them when he was still alive, they were both like, I should have gone with you. Like, we should have done that. Because it was the— we were in a squad that was was like-minded, like regiment was. Like, and I always tell people, it's like, the, the thing you can't— the thing, the difference between regiment and the big army is in regiment, or the big army, you'll find one or two guys that are about it.

They're, they're about the lifestyle. They are warriors. That's what they wanted to do. For whatever, whatever reason, they didn't get into that. They couldn't make their way, because getting into regiment's luck too. Like, I tell people that all the time. Like, it's like getting through selection, that's luck. Like, partially luck. Like, you could— I watched a guy walk out and rip and he was wearing the wrong t-shirt. I'm thinking that was the end of his— that was the end of his rip. Forgot your 2-core? Out. Yeah. Like, yeah, you bring the wrong one. You don't like, oh wait, you didn't bring X, Y, and Z. Yeah, you're done. Thanks for playing. So, but that's the difference between what I thought the difference between regiment and big army was, is that I, in the big army, I found a group, few and far between, but I found a group that was gonna watch my back during combat, was gonna fight. Like we were always fighting. We were always trying to get to the forefront of the fight. We were trying to do close with and destroy the enemy. Regiment, it's everybody. Every single Swede guy out there is about that life.

That's what he does. And if he doesn't, he doesn't belong and he won't be there anymore. So it's like a very stark difference between the big Army, but you can still kind of find those pockets. But going back to it, that's pretty much my epiphany where I was like, this is what I'm gonna do. And then I, 'cause I was an E-5 at the time and it's, I don't know if you ever heard of E-5s going through as a, import? Hard.

Very hard. They go through ROP, though, right? Or RASP-2 now?

Well, so no, if you're an E-5, you go through RIP. Oh, no kidding. Or not RIP, RASP. You go through RASP-1. Okay. I went through RIP, so that's still the 4-week course. And the way it happened was, is I got back from Iraq, 2 weeks later I'm at Benning for jump school and then immediately picked up, it was in August, immediately picked up and then I got into, and then you go, I went right down to, got into RIP and then 4 weeks in RIP, the 4 weeks in RIP and then immediately after that, it's because I'm an NCO and I can't be an NCO in regiment without a tab. So right after RIP, I'm right into CERT. Right after CERT, I'm right into Ranger School. And then it was funny 'cause I got outta Ranger School and Sergeant Major Merritt was the, it was 1st Sergeant Bohannon comes in, pretty much tells us we didn't do anything special. Like, you're not special, everybody does this. Immediately after Sergeant Major Merritt walks up and he's just like, he's like, congratulations Rangers. And we're like, yeah. He's like, here's the, He's like, who here's in DCO?

I like raised my hand and he's like, you'll be meeting your platoon in 72 hours. You get a pass and then you're gonna be on a plane. I was just like, perfect. And then a week later I found myself, since I was, that was my first deployment and I didn't do any of the train up, but I still have to shadow and they still needed guys. I found myself in DCO and they were like, you're a goose, you're the AG for a goose and you're going to learn how to be a team leader. So there I am with goose rounds, like walking up a mountain a couple of weeks after Ranger School, just being like, well, this is great.

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Oh, rough. Uh, the learning curve was just massive, um, especially not having been able to do any of the workup. Like, I wasn't in the train-ups, I didn't do any of it. So my first, like, induction into the regiment was meeting them overseas, uh, in Afghanistan and starting to go out on missions. Like, here's your kit, here's all your stuff, like, follow us, don't fall behind. And that's kind of when, like, I had kind of pumped myself up. I was like, all right, like, it's gonna be normal. It was a, the beast of regiment as far as going and actually doing operations was something just wildly different. In the big Army, you sit around and it's like, you know, hours of boredom, like, or days, months of boredom with a couple of stark moments of terror mixed in here and there. There it was like off the gate, we're, and I was a decoy. First Sergeant Bulley was the first sergeant. And we did not like walking at all. So everything was ex-landing, like, we called it the decoy bum rush where you just took off off the back of that bird and beat feet right to that target.

Like if they're shooting at you, doesn't matter, keep going, get to the doors, like, we'll be fine. Um, but yeah, the learning curve, that— it was a, it was a rough learning curve, and I can see where a lot of guys don't survive that, where it's like, hey, you just can't keep up, you're not— this isn't for you, you don't— it is a very different place than the big Army. Um, just what they expect of you, what the knowledge you're supposed to have as an E-5 the getting anybody to actually respect you at that point because they know you're an import. So I got lucky again because my brother was well known. And so they were just like, hey, like, this is Sauce's— this— by that time, I think he was in— he was a TAD Spec 4 too. And he was just like— they're just like, hey, he's, you know, he's Sauce's brother. So I got— I probably got a little bit of leeway on that, but it was that deployment. And as hard as it was though, that's kind of where I knew I was like, no, this is where I was supposed to be.

Yeah, this was, this was the road I was supposed to take. Um, but that, that road— I did 8 months of schooling to get into the regiment as an E5 because they don't— I don't know if they do it anymore, but it was almost a gauntlet. It was the Airborne School, uh, RIP, uh, cert, then it was Ranger School, then it was deployment. Hey, cool, you get, you get 72 hours with your family and then you got to go.

Yeah, it's hardcore.

Yeah, but I mean, as a Ranger, like, again, like, and especially like right after getting— I was pumped up. I got a Ranger tab. Hell yeah. Uh, and then I was— and then as soon as they said, hey, you're going, I was like, fantastic, this is gonna be great. Uh, I'm gonna get to— and the biggest thing I was impressed with was the chow hall at, uh, man, where were we? Um, oh, we were down in, uh, um, Helmand. Camp Leatherneck. I love the chow hall there. It was great. That's what I was doing. I was just eating the whole time.

So this first deployment, you guys were doing time-sensitive targets, I take it, and you're learning the ins and outs of doing direct action raids.

Yeah, so it was, we were doing a lot of direct action. If in fact it was all direct action. And so I had actually gotten there Cubic and Santora had gotten killed probably about a week and a half before, and we had gotten sent to that mission set because MARSOC had had 2 snipers killed in that area. It was when they'd gotten actually surrounded, tracked down, surrounded, killed, almost kind of a Red Wing situation. And then they had been tossed off a cliff, I think, at that point. That's what they brought two strike forces in to go and start like handling that mission set. And that was a, it was a really kinetic, that was a kinetic, kinetic deployment where we were out getting, getting into fights, going, I mean, we had one, it had to have been a, we got there pretty early right after, right after the, what's it called? Nighttime had fallen. Get there, land, and immediately start fighting. And we didn't leave until that next morning. We'd been fighting the entire morning, um, or had been fighting that night into the morning. And that was one of the— and I'm sure you've had it— the— I had one of the most, again, going back, like, weird but surreal things that had ever had, that I'd ever seen.

And it's the the moments you take. So I always tell new guys or guys getting into it, it's like, hey, take that— like, even if you're in a firefight, don't, you know, don't get dangerous or anything, but take a moment to look around and realize where you're at. Um, and one of the things I realized when I was there is, so it was like a movie. Uh, we had exfilled. These guys decided to follow us from, like, because we had kicked up the hornet's nest. It was right out— I think it was right outside of KAF. And we get on top of this hill and we're fighting, like the back of our formation is fighting the entire time and pretty much just withdrawing to our HLZ. Get onto our HLZ, it's on the top of this hill. The sun's coming up over the mountain, so you can, on the right side, you can see the mountains and the sun's already lifting up. We're already into day and there's bombers, F-15s that are making runs on the top of these mountains, dropping bombs. On the side of these mountains, and we're in this kind of a half-moon shape.

Uh, I'm a goose gunner at this point, so I'm helping load a gun, and then I'm shooting, and we're repelling another— an attack on this hill. And like, I look around and everybody's shooting, and you see, uh, A-10s come over. They're, they're like— you see the A-10s just laying waste to people. We're all firing on the side, uh, or we're all firing And then I hear— we— you hear the womp womp womp womp womp, and we look back and this Chinook comes right over the top of us, turns its ass around, and the gunners just start shooting off the back of it. And we all, like, as soon as they land, we all start running onto the birds. We get it, and we got— we got the guy that we were looking for. Like, I think he was, like, at the time he's like number 2 or 3 in the country. And we get him on, we're on, and we're flying away, and everybody's just jacked up. We're, we're high-fiving each other. We're sitting there like, uh, everybody's fist bumping, high-fiving each other. We're all sitting on the ground. And one of the things I did is I looked out, and we're flying pretty high at this point, and both of these A-10s are pretty much doing circles around the formation as we're doing it.

And I'm like sitting there, and as I'm like thinking about all of that stuff, I'm like, this is like a movie, like I was like, this is unreal. And this is my induction into regiment. This is my first deployment. I was just like, at that point I was just like, I'm gonna do this forever. This is all I ever wanted to do. So it was, I think if you can, especially as an import, if you can make the road, it's worth it at the end.

Yeah, yeah. If you can get through the culture shock, as you mentioned. Yeah.

And a lot of guys don't, not their fault, 'cause big Army, that drop from big army is rough. Yeah, yeah.

And then you get, after that first deployment, what happens when you get back to the States and now you're kind of like that Ranger Battalion garrison life at Fort Benning?

Oh man, completely different from, again, completely different from big army. A, you're always training, but the good old boy's club, like I'm at that point, you know, I'm a tab D5, so you know, the world is my oyster. Um, you know, I'm getting privates, you're running around, and I just remember it being— you just wanted to be the best at everything. Yeah, like you wanted to be the fastest runner, you wanted to do all the rucks, you wanted to, um, you wanted to be the team that did the best, um, so that you could get the best missions. Everything's a competition. Yeah. And then, uh, especially then being there with my brother too was a good time because We palled around a lot. Like, I'd always go and hang out with him. Uh, I think he had just made the move over to, uh, Recce, and so I'd always go and like hang out with him in his office and stuff like that. And then, uh, just kind of the small stuff that you would see where it's the, um, you're walking around with your tambourine at that point and you're nearly untouchable on that base.

Like, everybody knows that they give you the wide berth. They pretty much say you know, you're behind the brown fence and everybody knows it. Everybody knows who you are, which is kind of the difference in the big Army is that nobody knows who you are. Nobody cares. And I had an interesting thing. So when I graduated RASP and was going to CERT, I graduate RASP and they're saying, hey, you know, you're— or no, it was Ranger School. No, it was RASP. It was RASP. I graduate RASP, so I have a tambouré at that point, and they're like, hey, uh, I got a, um, I got a couple weeks before my class picked up for CERT. So they were like, hey, you need to go out to— you need to go back to Fort Hood, help process that. Um, so I'm walking around Fort Hood with a tambouré and a scroll on, and man, like, couldn't get any better. Like, I didn't have to do nothing. Like, everybody was just like, oh God, that guy. They didn't know And it's funny because in the big army, you know, especially I didn't know anything about it, uh, and then I didn't know that like if I— if you would have been in the know, you would have looked at me and be like, that dude doesn't have a tab.

So, uh, it was funny because that was the garrison life, was so much— it was fun but it was also hard. And it was definitely that warrior culture. Yeah, like you're— everybody's trying to be the best. Everybody's like— I never seen so many guys go to the gym in my life. It was like we went for Morning PT, and then you see everybody in there going to the gym. If they were in ACO, they were all getting hairless and canning out somewhere. The drinking was a lot. That's another part of the culture is, man, we drank. When we got back from that deployment, that was the funny thing too, is that they always had pizza and kegs waiting for you when you got back so that you could have a couple drinks while you're trying to go clean weapons. Yeah. Yeah, the rigmarole of getting all your weapons in there. And then you'd have the, uh, we'd always get into the, uh, the platoon fights over in the zoo where people are going over. They block off all the stuff on the side so nobody could get through. So it almost looked like a World War I movie where you got people blowing whistles.

They got the, uh, the caving ladders that they've extended so that they could go over the top. It was great.

Yeah, the platoon brawls get a little out of hand sometimes.

Oh, it was so much fun though. Uh, we got into one, uh, while we were doing elevators out on the airfield with, um, CCO of all people. And I was in HHC, but I was attached to BCO, uh, as their sniper. And we get into this huge platoon brawl, and it's that they, they have their guidons there, and there's the first sergeants are talking shit to each other. Uh, and I remember getting into that fight And I don't know, do you know Cessna at all? No. Uh-uh. So Cessna, he actually went to TAG later on. Giant. He's a giant. He was an ACO. No, he was a CCO dude. He was a massive man, like 6'3", 200-something pounds. I am at that point probably £170 in kit. And I'm all, I'm every bit of 5'5", like 5'6", 5'7" maybe. And during the whole brawl, everybody, you know how it is, everybody's like falling, they're beating each other up. And I like lock eyes with Sethna after he had just flung somebody else, and he comes running at me and I just latch onto one of his legs. And so he's dragging me around. It was great.

We had, uh, the Platoon brawls were probably the most fun I'd had, uh, but the medics probably hated it because they were always fixing somebody like, oh, these fingers are broken.

What was it when we had like battalion field games? You remember that? Oh God. Field day. Yeah. Field day. Yeah. Get those banners. Yeah. And the— Banner day.

That's what it was. Our battalion—

I'm trying to think now. Was it the battalion or was it between companies or was it from platoons? I think it was platoons in my company. And he had us play this game Washington over the Delaware, I think he called it, where they put like, or maybe it was two different companies because I think it was our first sergeant and the company commander in one Zodiac from our company and another first sergeant and company commander from another company in the other Zodiac. And the NCOs had to hold the zodes up and go from like point A to point B, like 200 meters. And all the privates were lined on the edge of the field. And if those boats, God help them, got too close to those lines, dudes were getting pulled in. Bam, bam, guys getting thrown off the Zodiacs. I mean, I saw guys get their PTs ripped right off of themselves, so they're walking around naked. It was, it was totally nuts.

We did, uh, I think one of ours was dodgeball, and they had that got like uber serious. Like, people are sitting there calling other people cheaters, they're like trying to like slam this ball as hard as— well, there was one guy who's going up to get a ball, slips, and gets his face like demolished by this ball. Like somebody's camp like runs right over him, hits him with the ball. It's in true Ranger fashion, everybody takes everything just as seriously.

Yeah, like any advice I'd give to like a young like Ranger lieutenant, it would be you got to be very careful when you pit Rangers against each other. And tell them like, hey, it's game on, go get that, you know, win that banner for us. Like, something really bad is going to happen.

It was so— when you got new guys, it was like their first week was rough because it would be the— you'd get all these new guys and in the company, you get them. I remember I was a squad leader, I'd get new guys and I'd be like, hey, go into, uh, go into first platoons. I want you to fight every single one of them. And I'll get like— I will give those guys credit. The new guys didn't— wouldn't even blink at it. Roger Sergeant! And they run over there and tackle the first person they saw. And it was— and then all of a sudden it's more brawling. Other people are coming in. And I think one of the best ones we had was in CCO. We almost had a hostage exchange at one point in time where all the squad leaders and team leaders sitting there, and we're like— we had them locked in the lockers, and we're like, all right, I'll trade you the fat one for my skinny guy and be like, no, he's going to be 2. So it was great. Like when we got bored, we got bored.

Yeah. No, my privates did that in Iraq where they were kind of sneaking around. They put on their balaclavas and were sneaking around. If you remember, the old cold weather gear was all black. So they were dressing up like ninjas and stuff and they were going out in the middle of the night in those chews and they'd wait for guys from other squads to go to the showers. So they're like walking with a towel around them, waddling over there and privates would just ball this guy up and flex cuff him and drag him into their chew. And they'd take like trophy photos with them and stuff. It was, yeah. And then yeah, it becomes a hostage negotiation where like, you gotta let my guy go. No, fuck you. I'm not doing that.

Oh gosh. Uh, yeah, we took everything from— I think that's what I missed about it, is like, it was fun. The culture was always like about, about the fight, but it was— everybody was in, in good, uh, even in Snipers we did stuff like that. Uh, we had a guy named Baker who had a birthday, and this is my favorite Sergeant Major Merritt story. Um, and a guy named Baker, uh, had a birthday And so, uh, right outside of the chow hall, they had those, uh, uh, the, uh, pull-up bars. And we caught Baker out there, and we had duct tape and, uh, and buckets of water. And so we toss them up there, we duct tape them, and then we throw rag over his face. We start like waterboarding him right there. Uh, and so we're sitting there doing all this stuff to Baker, and, uh, they— Sergeant Major Barrett drives by. And then Sergeant Major Merritt drives by. Baker thinks it like, oh God, thank God somebody's gonna stop this. Looks over at him and Sergeant Major Merritt like rolls down his window, like looks from side to side and goes, happy birthday, Ranger, and then just drives off.

It was just like, we like kind of look around like, all right, I guess we're gonna go back to what we did, what we're up to.

So yeah, Sergeant Major Merritt was awesome.

Oh yeah, everybody loves that guy. I don't think there's any— I don't know anybody who didn't like him. I'm sure everybody has like that Sergeant Major Merritt story on— Yeah, yeah. On objectives. He went out a lot. He always went out on mission. There was a guy named Bailey in DCO that we were up on. We were pulling security out because we had already taken the compound. So we're pulling security out and there's a big moon out. Like it's pretty high-vis. And, uh, Bailey's on the ground. I'm— we're wandering around on the ground too. And Bailey looks up and he goes, he goes, hey, whoever that is, he's like— he starts cursing at him. He's like, get down! And all you hear out of the darkness is, oh yeah, yeah, Roger, Roger, Ranger! And like gets out. And he goes, oh shit. Like, it's like, that was Sergeant Major Barrett. And so we go back to— we're going, uh, we're going back to get the debrief, like download all the debrief stuff. Sergeant Major Barrett walks in and he's just like, Where's that Ranger who told me to get the F down? And Bailey's just, everybody looks over at him and Bailey's like, mm, like that.

He's like, good job, Ranger, coins him and like walks out.

My Sergeant Major Merit story was when we were doing airfield seizures and I was in snipers at the time. And I mean, it's dark out, it's on Lawson Airfield. You have no idea who's who in the air, but I came underneath Sergeant Major Merritt and Shark Désert. And he dropped, he dropped like an anchor. I don't know how many feet, but came all the way down and I heard him come down and like, blah. And you can hear it. Yeah. That Sergeant Major Merritt, like, rah. Yeah. And he told me later all of his pens in his pocket exploded when he hit the ground. I felt so bad. Like I was horrified, but he was a good sport about it. He was like, lower jumper has the right of way.

That guy. Uh, yeah, good times, man. That was a— yeah, yeah, I miss him a lot.

So, uh, after that first deployment to Afghanistan, uh, and you know, now you're living the Ranger life, what, what was the next deployment, uh, for you?

Uh, so, uh, after that deployment in Afghanistan, the next one was back to Afghanistan, um, where we I'm trying to remember where we ended up. It was Salerno. Oh yeah, so we ended up in Salerno, um, out there doing a bunch of missions. Uh, at that point I was with, uh, 2 Delta, and, uh, pretty connect— that one was also pretty kinetic. Uh, we were actually there with, um, then, uh, Sergeant Major, uh, oh man, I just brain dumped his name. We were just talking about him. Not merit sergeant major, then right now the current sergeant major.

Oh yeah, your buddy. I didn't know him, I'm afraid.

Yeah, yeah. Anyways, he was the platoon sergeant there for 1 Alpha or 2 Alpha. I can't remember which, which Alpha Co. So, but we had like, we were all there. Major Taylor was there, one of the, he was the HHC. And that was a fun deployment because my brother was actually supporting Salerno 2. So he was the, uh, recce guy supporting them. So, uh, you know, he went out on a bunch of missions. Uh, we tried— we didn't go out on missions together as much, uh, on that deployment just because I think they were being kind of cognizant of the atmosphere, what was going on during those deployments. Uh, and so yeah, uh, did that deployment, um, and that was a fun one. Had a real good time. We got into a lot of stuff on that, like kind of the normal thing though. There wasn't anything like big about it. It was the normal. We got into tics. We did a bunch of stuff. There was a bunch of shenanigans on Salerno as a base, just that the Rangers do. Kind of like, I think one of my— we were talking about video people playing video games.

There was times where the weather was— because Salerno is right there by the KG Pass, and that's where we were doing a lot of our operations. But during that time period, you know, weather could come in and they'd be like, "Hey, weather's red," or you'd be waiting for weather to clear so that we could go on mission. And so there was a lot of times during that deployment where we were sitting there playing like Nazi Zombies in full kit. Like we were just all sitting there like playing Nazi Zombies. Like, "Is the weather— is it still black?" And they're like, "Yeah." He's like, all right, like push 2 hours. Like, fantastic. Thank you.

I think I saw— I think it was one of the medics in Charlie Company. I saw him get flexcuffed to the chain-link fence at Salerno on his birthday.

We had a guy named Tujoh who's also an officer now, uh, and, uh, we found out that it was his birthday, but he kind of knew it was coming, so he went and got, uh, tasers from the, uh, box And so as soon as the privates rushed in, he started just tasing the crap out of the first couple of them. Eventually he went down and they got him, and then we put him on a backboard, wrapped him up, and then pink-bellied him, put all sorts of stuff on him, and then paraded him around the, uh, uh, the camp. And that was funny because that was the— they were just testing out CST on that deployment, and so we had one, and she was horrified. He's naked getting drug around this thing, and she's just like— I'm sure she was like, oh my God, what have I done? Yeah, you're shaving the guy's eyebrows off. Oh gosh, we did that to a guy. I feel bad to this day. I was the squad leader. I watched the team leader do that. To this day, I was just— I had actually pulled him. I was like, hey, like, maybe not shave one of his eyebrows off before he goes to Ranger School.

Like, no, it's like, because he's kind of a representation of us, and right now he looks weird. Uh, but yeah, like, uh, they, yeah, they found out his birthday and he like— I just remember the first guy that came in because I was outside watching it because all the team leaders or squad leaders are outside watching all these privates rush in. And that first dude who came in got it, took it right in the neck and went right down, like was, I was unconscious for a little bit. And like some of them stopped and then the team leader started to be like, why are you stopping? And then they just all rushed in. And it was funny because I— one of the tasers that he had actually ran out of battery. He had tased so many guys, it actually ran out of battery. So, but, but yeah, I was, uh, that was a really fun deployment too. Uh, I think by that time I'd kind of already gotten my feet wet, uh, went through an entire workup for, um, for the deployment. So I was getting, getting better at being a team.

And were you a team leader or squad leader around this time?

So I was a team leader around that time. Gotcha. And then after that deployment, uh, I went into snipers. Okay. So did, uh, actually went over to, uh, Snot.

Yeah. So tell us a little bit about that. What was the process like for making the transition from the line company to snipers?

So, uh, Snipers was looking for people. I'd actually wanted to get into Recce, uh, because I wanted to go be with my brother. And but they had been like, hey, you know, maybe you do something in HHC, but you're not going to do— we're probably not going to send you over to Recce to do that. So I was just like, all right, that's cool. Um, went over to Snipers, got it, you know, they talked it up. I never thought I'd be a sniper. In fact, I'd for a long time had been like, yeah, I don't have the patience to do any of that. But we did the selection, or you do another selection to get into snipers. So you do the RPAT, you do your PT test, you do your RPAT, and then we would do a grouping just to kind of see if you could. Luckily, I was an okay shot then. I wasn't a great shot by any means, but I was okay. But did well enough to get in and then started getting in. And then they started putting us through almost like a pre-sniper of 375. You would be in the section and they'd be— that's all they're doing is getting you ready for sniper school.

So a lot of shooting, a lot of just learning. Mike Pemberton was my, pretty much my training partner. He was my early training partner. So, and Nick, I think, had just left as I was getting in there. So kind of the whole Mike, if you've ever met P Murder, I've never met Pemberton, but I've just heard many stories about him from guys over the years.

But I'm really happy to hear that they had a really good induction program for you, because when I went to Snipers, it was kind of like, okay, you're here. Now we're going to haze you for a year and maybe we'll teach you something at some point. But I mean, I had to wait to go to Sniper School to learn my entire job.

Um, yeah, and what's crazy is that you don't learn, especially in regi— like, what we did was a close-in support, like we were direct support. And so we really didn't— as the shooting stuff, which is I think what regiment really concentrated on, was making, making accurate shots at distance under pressure, was one of our big— and that was— this is before all of the PRS stuff and everything, all that stuff was coming out. But we did, we concentrated on that because I think they knew that, uh, uh, I think they knew that that's what we did. We made, we made, we were having to make accurate shots under pressure, uh, around an assault force. And so when you go, it's funny because when I went to sniper school and then having done a kind of a process to get to what they wanted us to be. And then going to sniper school, I was like, this is two different skill sets, like, of what they're asking us to do.

Like, this is— oh, because in sniper school you're still doing like stalks and ghillie suits and stuff.

Yeah, you're doing stalks, ghillie suits and stuff like that. And but in regiment, I'm a— you're a direct support for the assault force. I'm trying to make, like, I'm trying to figure out if I can make this shot into this building as guys are moving in and how far off their barrels I have. Then also too, you're kind of doing a scouting mission. So if the assault force is walking in, you're pretty much up there with the dog. I have a funny story about that. But the skill set is completely different from what sniper school is. But I think you go to other schools in the Army and then you you kind of realize that that's more— it's more of an assaulter mindset there than it is sniper school. But I think everybody should go to sniper school if you're going to be a sniper because you have to traditionally know how to do the job.

Did you find that the ranges also were quite a bit shorter in your job as opposed to— I think the standard at sniper school is shooting out to 1,000 meters, but when you're doing direct support, it's more realistically like what, 300 meters at most, I think.

Yeah, I think, uh, so it was funny because during the, um, any of the TFTs or the, uh, the, uh, VALEXs for platoon live fire, you had as far as the optics then could get you. So they could probably get you 600. So you're, you're shooting out, you're making shots out 600, um, if your, if Lume would, would let you do it, if you had the right optics for it.— we were making those shots out to about 600, but on mission, there were sometimes guys that I've heard of, guys that were shooting out to like 400, 500, but nothing really past that because you were really focused in on like, A, when everybody's going up, you've climbed a roof and you're sitting on that roof watching doors, watching windows, making sure that like there's nobody in, and then making that shot into those windows if you have to. You really become, I think, an asset as far as target identification. Like, hey, this is what you have here. This is what I'm seeing, you know, kind of calling out door heights, wall heights, where entries are, if things are locked. They used us a lot for that kind of setting up the assault force to get into the target.

Yeah, yeah, as overwatch for the assault teams. Yeah. Any other sniper courses that they sent you to? Where you had some interesting takeaways?

So I think during the time period that we were going to, we did rifles only and then the Todd Honnett, we went out there with him 'cause he was out in Texas. We did those courses. We really didn't get sent to a lot of like Army courses. I think towards the, now the guys go to Sephardic, they go to SODIC, I think. And some of the guys had actually gotten into SODIC. I know Chris Topher, who was— had been my partner, he had actually turned out to be my partner for the longest. Chris had gone to SODIC and done all that stuff. So it's, uh, I think it was at the point in time they tried to get you what they could. But during that point in the war, like, we were, we were getting out.

We had it. We had a, we had a couple guys that they sent to, uh, Marine Scout Sniper Dawg, uh, man, we did—

we had one too, and that's all he talked about. It was rough. It was rough being around him. Like he's a Marine? Yeah, he was just like, oh, it's so great, and this is the things they do. And I was just like, when's the last time you ghillied up, man? So, uh, we were just like— and not to take any way, I think those guys are fantastic. Yeah, they are. Um, the— again, I think they— that school, from what I saw later on really concentrated on skill craft. Like, skill craft was their thing. Like, yeah, yeah, getting, uh, gilling up, how to move. Um, and I think the Army, and especially because they were going more towards the, uh, like, again, the rifles only, Todd Hodnett stuff, uh, they were going a lot towards more accuracy. They were going to accuracy first, like we were going to accuracy first. We were going rifles only, stuff like that. And that was— we were really concentrated on accuracy, getting the ABCs like tuned up and actually, um, pushing that gun to the limit. Um, as opposed to, I think from what I saw from Marine Scout Sniper, it was a lot of fieldcraft.

We were a lot of shooting. And right now I want to say that sniper school, that's what it's based off of, is a lot of technical shooting. Yeah. Um, which I think is great. I think that's kind of what you needed because this day and age, if you're talking about warfare now, um, a sniper is a dangerous thing. Um, but as far as skill craft is concerned, like, we have thermals, we have— everybody's got thermals, everybody's got all sorts of things. So it's like you can sneak around the woods all you want in a ghillie, like, if that thing doesn't have thermal shielding on it then you're, you're kind of dead in the water.

Uh, and then what was your first deployment like with, uh, snipers?

So, uh, again, uh, going, going back to that was another one where it was learning a new skill set, having to, um, readjust my mindset from door kicker, always wanting to get into, hey, like, you got to look for your almost a vanguard. You're ahead of everybody. You got to get into, you got to get into good positions. You got to climb. You got to look for where you're going to climb. And then afterwards, after everything's set, you got to kind of get yourself into a position that you could be able to defend the assault force and make shots, whether that's on, like, you put yourself on BPs, or whether you put yourself up on top of a roof or wherever it is going to be on the target. The— I always thought the interesting thing about especially being an E-5 coming from being a team leader and then being an E-5 is that as an E-5 in regiment, you kind of get told, "Hey, this is where you're gonna be at." And then you have your left and right limits of the decisions you get to make right there and then on that spot.

As a sniper, it was new to me because I went into mission planning, and then I told the PL where I was going to be. I was like, hey, I think I'm— I should be, you know, here, or I think I should travel here in the formation because I have the best. So that was the growing, growing up and having that experience. Um, and that was, I think, the learning curve, was having to realize that, hey, like, now you have real input into this mission set, into this mission planning. Especially as a sniper, because you know, you gotta decide where, you gotta think like the enemy, where's that contact gonna come from and where can I place myself best to make the best shots on that to end whatever contact that is as fast as possible. So a lot of, you know, you didn't always end up at the BPs. Sometimes you were out of BP, sometimes you were on a roof, like I said, or you were in, you were in some area or you had to decide, hey, I— we had one mission where they decided that the building next to us was higher than the compound and that we were going to go in.

And so we actually went in, made entry, pulled pistols, cleared all the way up top, got on top of it, and then they were like, hey, we don't want to clear back down because we don't know what's down there. We don't have anybody on the bottom floor because we're pulling our own security. So we shimmied down like a pipe, which was probably one of the more sketchiest things I've done. I did that, it was Pap. I don't know, did you know Paparella? No. BCO Paparella. He's a, now he's also a Sergeant Major. And so, but that was one of the things where he was like, Pap was the platoon sergeant at that time and he had put himself on that mission and he was like, let's go. And we did that and I was like, this is one of the sketchier things I've done in my life. I was just like, and I've done some sketchy— I've kicked some rocks that were real sus and this is more sketchier than that.

Yeah, in full kit, that doesn't sound fun.

Oh no, it wasn't. But that was one of the things too, is that as a sniper, you started kind of learning like your kit setup and like what you need and didn't need and what was advantageous for your mission. As a team leader, it's shooter preference, but hey, this is— this is what you're going to wear. You're going to wear all of this stuff and you got to carry— by the way, you got to carry the shotgun, you got to carry a Svedco. Yeah, you're— or yeah, you've got a Svedco on you. And the— as a sniper, it was— I could tailor my kit to my mission. I could figure out how best what was going to work for me, and they let you do that. I think it's like, that's part of your learning process as a team leader. Like, you pretty much— you're getting told a lot of what to do, You're just like, hey, you're going to be here and you're going to do this. And then like, that's it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're like dropping down to a plate carrier and a couple magazines. Yeah.

Or you're running plate carrier, a couple magazines, or you're running— you're trying to figure out like how you're going to carry some stuff on your belt differently or where your radio really needs to be because you don't have all that stuff. So you have a lot more way. Um, a lot of the time, you know, uh, I think one of the biggest things with snipers is that that's where I learned is like, hey, you don't want a lot of stuff on the front of your plate carrier. You want to be as light as you can on there because I got to climb up walls. Um, if you're on Squatter and Addiction, I got to go chase somebody. Like, that's, you know, how hard is that in full— like, in if you're carrying everything known to man? Yeah, yeah.

Uh, any memorable missions from that deployment?

Uh, man, not particularly. I remember one where we almost got left, uh, we almost got left for, um, a remain over day because we hit the target really late. And then some stuff happened on the target where we were looking for, for a couple things, and they were just like, hey, like, if we don't get to the HLZ in like, I think the HLZ was like 3K away, and I think we had like 25 minutes to get there. And so it was a legit kit run that we, we just— the entire assault force just running, and you could see the sun coming up, and everybody's sitting there trying to get everybody— like, guys are like, the gun team's just dying, and so people are trying to take stuff from the gun team. And, uh, I just— I, I remember that the only reason I remember that is because, A, snow everywhere. It was just the most snow I've ever seen. Um, and a lot of that deployment was like my first deployment with snipers was like that, where we were— everything was snowy because we were in deep snow. Uh, I hopped off one of the, uh, birds on one mission and sunk right in.

I'm a short guy. I sunk right in the snow and real far in this— far enough to where it startled me, so I was like, I'm gonna get, like, left in here. And so I took my, uh I took my rifle, my rifle, and I just shoved it up so that somebody could grab it and pull me out. And I was like, don't leave me. It was like trying to get somebody on the radio. But I remember that one because the air crew got onto our net and was like, hey, it's, uh, it's -25 degrees, boys, have a nice night. And we're like, thanks, appreciate you. Uh, but that, that deployment was relatively quiet. Um, we didn't— we got into some stuff, we didn't do anything real crazy. Uh, it's— and it's funny because the relatively quiet for regiment is we'd get into tics, but nothing was ever like— you never really thought too much about it. Um, it was the next deployment when I was in snipers where I was a senior sniper that it got— it got like real. We got into some hairy stuff. Where was that? So I started out in Shank with B-Co, but they weren't doing too many missions.

And so we had two snipers that were down in Jaybad. And as they were in Jaybad, we— there was a really bad strike on Jaybad where— so two of our guys, it was two of our snipers, had gone to— they were doing something. It was a normal morning.— and mornings are nights, so everybody's getting kind of tying down, getting ready to go. And so they go, they're getting ready for bed, and a TIC starts off on the Legionnaire— we were on the Legionnaire side of Javad. And so they're outside the gate, a TIC starts. And so a couple guys run up to see what's going on. National Guard's on the towers. And 2 of our snipers run up to the tower because they're like, hey, maybe we'll get some trigger time in. They get up there and one of the National Guard, it was a girl, and she was, from the story that we were told by these guys, she was cowering down on the side because they were shooting at that time. They were putting effective fire on the tower. So one of our guys gets on the machine gun, starts shooting, takes the machine gun over, starts shooting.

The other guy's sitting there, he's on his rifle calling out shots. And they looked down, and as soon as they looked down, they're like, hey, how long has that boxcar been here? And as soon as she was just like, oh, it pulled up like 15 minutes before this started. And as soon as they had said that, the boxcar blew up, uh, ended up throwing both of the snipers— kills— they killed the female, throws both the snipers out of the, uh, tower. And, uh, one of the guys was— it took— it almost took his arm completely off. Uh, so, uh, it blows a hole inside of, uh, on that, uh, that side of the thing. And the— it was elements of, uh, it was the SEALs, elements of the SEALs, and then the, uh, Rangers end up fighting over a like 4-foot hole in the wall trying to push these guys back. Uh, one of the— one of the, uh, Tyrant, the, uh, uh, JTACs ends up getting like, uh— I want to say he got like a Silver Star for— calls in a random flight randomly going by, gets them to come and respond to it, and actually repels the rest of the attack.

So at that deployment, we— or on that one, we had lost 2 guys. 2 guys ended up going home because they were both really messed up. So me and Chris get the call and we're down in Shank and they call us up and they're just like, hey, you guys need to head up to J-BAB. So we take their spot down there, and then the rest of that deployment was, was a little crazy. Um, we had gotten into a lot of ticks. We had been kind of running around J-Bad, and that was around the time that, uh, UBL had gotten, uh, 2011-ish. Yeah. And so, uh, that was just a— that was the deployment where I think I kind of learned, like, how to maneuver under fire a lot better. And then, um, me and Chris are— we're still best friends to this day, but me and him, like, hung around each other. It's kind of where we learned to trust each other a little bit, because that platoon likes sending the snipers up. And there was one where I'm— it was actually— it was funny because, uh, there was two twins in regiment when I came through.

When I came through RIP, and they were the— they were called the Drahti Brothers. Um, and one went to B Co, one went to C Co, and I went through RIP with both of them. Uh, and so we're good friends, and one of them's in the platoon with me, and they end up sending— he's a team leader at that time— they send me, uh, they send me as a sniper, him, and one of the dogs in the, the, uh, one of the canines up, and we're operating 400 or 500 meters. We're walking through a town, like, in the middle of the night. And we're sitting there but like whispering each other like, this is it, this is how it ends. Like, so, uh, but kind of the being in that sniper role, that kind of— that was the deployment where I really got used to it, um, and actually being able to, uh, move like it, operate like it, get to— that was kind of the identity that I had taken on. And I, I did snipers for a real long time after that. Um, but yeah, that was, uh, that was probably one of the, the more memorable moments in that, in that deployment.

And again, I go back to memorable moments. We were getting into fights every night, so it's one of those things where from the first part of my career where I can remember every single firefight, uh, that I got into towards in regiment, it was just blending together. Yeah, that it was, it was just like, oh, like you'd be— I remember being in one fight and being ducked behind a wall going, trading shots and ducking down, uh, to reload or just kind of move positions and looking over at one of the guys and be like, what do you think they're serving at, uh, midnight chow? Like, you think we'll get back before this? Like, so it's just that you just became numb to everything at that point. Yeah, just how, how all that would happen. And, and then I think you take that for granted too when you got new guys in, and then you'd see them kind of reacting a different way. You'd just be like, what's his problem? And it's because he hasn't— his, his, uh, you know, uh, neurological system hasn't gone— like, his CNS is, is not tuned up, like, it's not tuned down to it.

He's still hopped up on it. So I think that was the— psychologically, I think that was a cool point where you go back to the first part of your career, you think about your first firefight, you're like, I remember what it smelled like. And then you go to the middle of your career and you're just like, I can't even remember this one. Like, this one blended in with that one, blended in with this other one. It was just really like— some of them were just like anticlimactic. Like, yeah, yeah.

But now, now you're learning like the operational art of the job sounds like.

Yeah, I think at that point, like, I was— you always think you're good, but at that point and during— with as much as we were doing it, we go back to like Green Berets and all like that, other, other, uh, like Tier 2 units, regular Army units, um, like, I think we just were better because we did it so much more. Often. Like, every night we went out, we were looking for a fight, or we were going to get into a fight, one or the other. Um, and so it's the— I think it's really that— that's what sets us apart from it. So you have the Green Berets, and it's not their fault, but they weren't getting into things like that every single night. The operational— their tempo wasn't that bad. Um, I think the worst part for them is they were just stuck out all the time because you'd always hear the transmissions where they'd be like they're off on their own in, in the wild west doing like, doing like 3 or 4 day patrols sometimes.

Yeah.

Yeah. And as opposed to us where we were sitting there and like anytime we got into a fight, it was, we could just bring the, the might of everything that we had in country down on top of you depending on where we were in the mission set.

Yeah. Yeah. If you really get into it, I mean, AC-130 is going to be overhead.

Oh gosh, we saw one. Um, it was my, and that was That was one of the first times— the first time I'd ever seen it was that first deployment, was watching an AC-130 and then the green beam of death, uh, that they, that they put out there, where it's just like playing whack-a-mole with people is basically all it was doing. It's like some guys would pop up. We saw a group running parallel to us, and, you know, I'm tapping, uh, Haley, who was one of the gunners. He gets it and he starts firing on them, and as he's firing on them, you the blinking light and then just the ground exploding and disappearing around these people and they're gone. Or you see the gun go off and the 30mm and it looks like they tossed somebody into a blender. And I was like, that was the— but then you're on these missions where like, I don't have to worry about too much because I know somebody's coming for me. It's the Green Berets. I think that's where I give them a lot of credit is that like there's times where they, they didn't know if anybody was coming.

They were their exiles. Right. So, yeah. And what were your other trips with snipers? So I did, man. So I did one more after that. And it was to, uh, KAF. Okay. So, um, and again, that was another one where it was me and Chris. We kind of just prowled around. Uh, we were out with BCO again. Um, and again, it was, uh, we were just kind of hanging around and getting into these like little ticks, but it wasn't— I think during that point in time of the war, everything was starting to not wind down but kind of settle into a very At that point in time, the networks, the Haqqani Network, ISIS, all these people— not ISIS yet, but the precursors to it, and al-Qaeda— they kind of realized that we were the guys that you didn't fight because we would kill you. It was almost better for you to just get captured because then all we were doing is we would detain you, hand you off to, um, the Afghans, and then the Afghans would release you, and we'd pay you for the pleasure. Um, and so they were kind of figuring that out around that time.

So it started to be less fights, uh, not dry holes, but we were actually going in and we'd be like, yeah, this is the dude. And the dude would— we have one where we, uh, at that deployment where me and Chris climbed, we climbed ladders, we're going in, and this guy like popped his own, uh, him light, threw it out there, had zip cuffs, put a zip cuff on one hand and then worked the other one and then walked out. And all the, the females and males started separating each other, and I was just like, hey, uh, it looks like they've done this before.

Yeah, yeah, they know the fire drill.

Yeah, so we're like, they, they know what's going on here. And the guy just seems like, yeah, was like, uh, you know, the terp, uh, they get the, uh, EQM bit out there, you got the terp out there, and then They're like, yeah, he knows we're here for him and he's ready to go. That's crazy. So, but that, I think that was the sign of the time of the—

this was, uh, the futility of what we're trying to do over there.

Yeah, it's like '15, '16. Yeah. And it was almost the— they're just like, it's better off for us to just go with you guys. Like, because we'll— like, we were just going to show up and kill you, and we weren't— if we showed up at night to come and get you, that was bad., and you'd rather not just deal with that. And so you were still having— I know the BSO, the, uh, Battle— uh, Battle— Battlespace owners, um, the regular Army guys were still having a lot of tics and stuff like that, like small attacks on their COPs, uh, or other forward operating bases. But they would, uh, pretty much like— they're pretty much— everything was settled into a an even keel lull of— we thought that we were gonna be— that was what, like 15, like 18 years into the war, something like that. Like, so like everything's pretty much settled at that point. We're just— it's— we were almost doing like, hey, oh, here's the— we killed the last guy in an airstrike, you know, 2 weeks ago. Here's the new guy, let's go get him. Like, and so it was like Every time they promoted somebody, we would just either kill them or go get them.

Um, and like I said, I think at that point they'd kind of realized that it's, it's pretty much better off if we just go get you.

Yeah, the game's rigged. Yeah. Um, and then when you went to, uh, Europe as an SME, was that with regiment?

Uh, no, so it actually, it was, uh, almost a detachment off of, uh, SM.

Oh, okay. We'll get to that.

Take it back off the first cab.

Yeah. So when you got back from that deployment with, to CAF, you went to the Army Marksmanship Unit. Was that the next thing?

Yeah. So kind of just like anything else, you get offers to do stuff. And so me and my partner Chris had actually gone there together, went down to the I had done some deployment, a deployment with CCO, uh, was an E-6 now, had done my squad leader time, and, uh, they're just— it was an offer that was on the table, and I was just like, yeah, sure, that sounds fine, it's on base, and, uh, that sounds fun. So we went, me and Chris went down to the instructor training group, uh, and we actually were there with other regiment guys. A lot of snipers were there, uh, there was a couple cat, uh, Delta guys there. Um, and it was basically they hired people who were going to go out to the Army to teach them marksmanship. Um, and I always say this, I was like, I thought I could shoot when I was in the regiment. Um, I basically didn't. I, I realized I didn't know anything because they start training you up there. So I get there, I go through, shoot through, uh, they look at my resume. It's almost like, uh, applying for a job, and then they say yes or no.

So they say yes. And so we immediately, we come in and we start training with, um, uh, uh, oh man, Iron Sledge. We start training with like Dan Horner. Okay. Uh, and there's a couple other, like, uh, uh, Green is there and all these are like kind of superstars within the, the shooting world is there. And so we start going through all the shooting and I was like, I thought I was a good pistol shooter. I had no idea what I was doing with a pistol until I got there. Um, and you start learning that you don't know what you— you didn't know what you didn't know. And I was always like, because I was a— I had gone through, uh, RMIC, the Regimental Marksman Instructor Course, so I thought I was a good shooter at that point. And then so I get there, I do that, uh, and realize that I'm not nearly as good of a shooter. So that's almost the kind of work up to what I started doing, especially with sniper stuff. So I did the time with the ITG, trained, went around and started teaching regular Army units how to train.

We were in charge of teaching IBOLC, or the Infantry Basic Officer Course. We started to treat teaching the Captain's Career Course guys coming through, the Sergeant Major's Academies coming through, because, uh, and I really appreciate this about how regiment does is they want to send guys out to know, to get to know things. We want to be the best at our craft, so any Ranger does. And where do you send— you got to send them to the guys that are going to know how to do that. So we started, we learned to shoot really well, uh, and when I mean we learned to shoot, like, we were shooting every day. They had a really cool program where I could go to their bunker with my— I'd sign my guns out from my, uh, cage. I would walk over to the bunker and we'd walk up and I'd be like, oh yeah, I want 2 grand of 5.56 and I need, you know, 4 grand of 9 mil. And then I would take that and I would go and shoot all day long, just all day. So it was great, uh, just that. But you, you learn the skills of actually marksmanship, of how to run a gun, how to hold a gun, all the small nuances of footwork when you're shooting.

And that really, I think, is something that Regiment later on took back home and said— there's like, um, one of the biggest things we got taught from AMU was that, uh, shooting, marksmanship, combat shooting is almost like a martial art. There's footwork involved in this. There's where you place your foot, where you place your hand. Of the little movements that you make with your head. Those all come into play, and that's something that you all have to train so that you can optimally take targets down, um, and make good shots, uh, on good shots on a body. And so we took all of that out. We, we went and we were giving that to the Army because, like I said, coming out of regiment, I thought I knew how to shoot. I did not. And if you look at the Army holistically, there's a lot of NCOs, officers who think, and Sergeant Majors, who really think that they're very good at shooting, and they are not. They are not, they were not the best. And so having an instructor training group like that to go out to the Army to actually do that was great.

One of the notable things I did is I was the NCOIC for the XM17, which became the M17 project. So I went down to Aberdeen and I actually did a lot of the testing for that. Um, uh, and while I was in, uh, the AMU, me and Chris also shot International Sniper together. So it's really cool, my partner from regiment, uh, we both go over to AMU and then we both shoot an International Sniper, which was a great time. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, so, uh, but I really appreciate my time in AMU because that's where I learned to do to actually enjoy the skill craft, the craft of marksmanship. And then that actually carried me over into kind of the rest of my career. That's what I ended up teaching and being known for wherever I went.

And how did that take place, that you went from AMU to the SFAB?

So went through some stuff personally, as most Rangers do. Sure. A marriage fell apart. And I'm from Texas, and so the closest place to Texas is— is our closest base in Texas is Fort Hood. Um, so there's an SFAB standing up at Fort Hood, uh, asked a favor, uh, and they let me come. They let me leave and come, uh, kind of follow my family. So as soon as I got into that, um, it's actually a strange place because there's a lot of Rangers. There's a ton of Rangers there. Not the— not RFS Rangers, it's guys were like, oh, hey, I need to get out to do something else. I need to go somewhere else and do, for whatever reason they had. So ended up in there, the SFAB, and started doing pretty much took control of a marksmanship program there, got a team and started running that. And that's how I ended up in the European deployment.

Do you want to tell folks out there what the SFAB was?

So the SFAB is a is pretty much a security forces, uh, advisory battalion. Yeah, advisory battalion. So we would go to partner forces and we would advise them on how to do it. So they're really big into, uh, troop leading procedures, uh, operations procedures. We were teaching at first, I think it started when it first got kicked off, guys were doing low-level tactics, almost like an SF job without having been SF. Right, right. But then they kind of started taking, when I got there, it was more strategic level. So it was battalion and brigade up for the partner forces. So teaching— Oh, I got you.

Teaching like their staff.

Yeah, how to move formations, how to actually be able to get your equipment and sustainment out to that. That was one of the big things. They would send you to sustainment forces. And they had for each operation, uh, for each level and operation, they had their— we had a counterpart for. So whether that be intelligence, so each part of the operations order, we would have like, we had an intelligence guy, we had a sustainment guy, we had a command and control guy, we had a maneuver. And so they would take people from each part of the Army who were subject matter experts in that, and then they would put them in those positions to be able to advise other units. So essentially, it was taking— I don't want to say it was taking work from SSF, but it was taking the, the strategic level work from it. So now they wouldn't have to put people strategically in their commands. There could be this, this overarching. And it wasn't for— I think Special Forces kind of had their knit, their, their thing in in special— in a special operations mindset. This was a big— like, we were a big Army mindset.

We were like, hey, like, this is how you put an army together.

There's, there's another organization, I believe it's called SMATCO. Yeah, I mean, did you guys dovetail with them at all?

Uh, we ran around with them, but we weren't— we never really like worked, worked with them, but we we would be in common places.

'Cause those are like, as I recall, that organization would have like, here's our expert on the Bradley fighting vehicle and they'd send them to like a country like Ukraine and be like, teach these guys how to do that.

Yeah, so, and that's what I said is I think that's taking, that you're starting to take it down more. We were more in the end of the operation. So like when we would send guys over, it was just like, hey, here's how to conduct a defense. Gotcha. Like this is how we do defense. This is how we do offense. This is how we do route reconnaissance, and we would take that and we would have our, uh, whoever our counterpart was, we would be training them on that portion of it. So generally your maneuver guy was an infantry guy, uh, generally your, um, sustainment guy was somebody who did sustainment at whatever brigade he was at. He did a high-level brigade operation. So it's Uh, that's where we were going. I know that's where SFAB was going with it. I think they're kind of coming away from that now though. Um, I know they're closing down a lot of them.

But when you were there, you were the sniper SME, I take it?

So they had, they had stuff that was going on. They got requests for things that were going on. And so I was a sniper. I'd done all the stuff, and as much as much as I was that, I'd done a lot of shooting too. Um, it was funny because when I got sent over there, I competed in the European Best Warrior, uh, while I was there. So they actually pulled me out to go to Germany to do European Best Warrior. So I do European Best Warrior there, but I'm not allowed to win it, uh, which was funny. They actually told you that? They did. They told me, they was like, hey, you're competing, but this is more for, for us to get our name out there and not for you to— like, you can't specifically win because you have to be— the European Best Warrior has to be in a unit that's currently stationed, like home stationed in, in Europe. So I go there and I do the whole dance, um, which was— it was fun. But like, uh, I got, uh, I got top shot and, uh, I did really well in combatives, got top, and I got the top shot out of the thing.

It was out of the competition. It was funny because when they were giving the award, they were like, hey, no surprise here, uh, you know, Sergeant First Class Salcedo blew y'all out of the water with the shooting. And so it was funny because, uh, during the qual, I was really cocky at that point in time because I knew I was winning. Uh, I got down and they have this, uh, known distance range with an M4, and it's iron sights M4. And so you have so many shots and I was knocking all of them down. I was just out there, I was just like, bam, down, down, hitting all of them. I was like, this is super easy. Hit the last one out at 400, and as soon as I do it, I immediately like unload my rifle. I'm like, yeah! And the cadre looks down at me and he's like, target up. And I look out and I had like the last round I had, I had ejected, and the magazine's empty. I had ejected this round, it falls on the floor. I look out and this pop just goes just right up there. And it's like, it's the— it's like a 100-meter popper.

I immediately reached down, grabbed the bullet, shove it in, finger, uh, put my finger in the magazine well, slam the bolt shut, and then fire from almost the shoulder position. I wasn't even on the stock. Thing goes down, and I immediately go, yeah! Stinked up in the— it was funny because the cadre was there, it's like, I've never seen anything like that. He's like, that's— he was like, that was crazy.

So you kicked ass the first couple days, and then the last day you had to go get drunk off your ass and not show up so that you lost the thing?

Oh man, no, it was the road march. I didn't prepare at all for it, so I came in top of the pack but not first. But the— so they did— I'll give it to them, like, the way they put this competition on was good. There was an unknown event at the end of the competition after the road march. We all knew that. So I was just like, man, I was like, it's probably gonna be an O course or something weird like that. I was like, I can handle O course. Came in probably top middle of the pack, not great but not terrible. Like, in true Ranger fashion, I'm like, I'm kind of sprinting the whole time. And I got like short little legs because I'm a 375 Ranger and all of us are tiny, uh. And so we, uh, get to the end, and as we're getting in, they've made have a uniform on the very top of our, uh, uh, our ruck. So I get in and they go, hey, go inside. As soon as you get in, it's immediate. It's like as soon as everybody gets in, they're like, go inside, uh, to the gym, get into that new uniform, and then you guys are going to line up, uh, underneath the stadium steps.

And I was like, all right. So we go and do it real quick. They were like, they gave us something like 10 minutes to do. So we get dressed, we go out there. Well, as soon as we go out there You walk out and they're introducing everybody and there's a mat on there and they've got shin guards and gloves and it's a round robin combatives tournament. And it is, uh, you can do, you can kick and it was fists. You could do fists to the body and it was open hand slaps. And we had, so it was a European Best Warrior, so it was a lot of, it was a little bit of everybody. There's females with us, 110-pound females, and they were— it was a round-robin fight. So we're like, we're going out there watching like a chick get picked up and hucked across this mat on one match, and then everybody had to fight each other. Uh, and so like, and it was right after a ruck march, and I was just like— it was, I think it was like my third or fourth match. I was just like, I'll give it to them.

This sucks. Like, this is rough. Like, I'm so tired of fighting this guy. Uh, but I was a— it was, it was an experience. Uh, that was a really good experience. That whole deployment was a good experience. Um, being able to work with an Eastern European army who, uh, like, didn't have the equipment but definitely had the guys, like, the, the want and then the want and the know-how without the equipment, and then kind of showing us how we showing them how we do things and then showing them how they do things. It's a completely different mindset. Like we talked earlier about like the close-in support, like direct support for assault forces. That's not a thing to them. They— when we— when they talk snipers, Eastern Europeans talk like, like old-time.

Yeah, we're shooting a Nazi general from the bell tower of a church.

Yeah. And then you're feeling like, you know, back to your lines, uh, or you're, um, you're in it. Like, they— we did one scenario where we talked about— we— they had it on their actual, um, compound where they had a bell tower, and it was like, hey, you're gonna shoot from this bell targets from this bell tower. And they were just like, yeah. So we go over mission planning because that's our job. We're like, all right, so how would you do this? And they're like, oh no, it's I was like, so what's your exfil plan? And he's like, exfil? Because I was like, no, I get it. Yeah, they're, uh, I was like, you're on a bell tower, you're probably not getting out of that tower. Yeah, like, maybe you should make some kind of plan, or maybe we don't even do it from this bell tower. Like, so, uh, that was, that was a really, really cool experience. Um, and then just the ability to travel Europe, uh, because in regiment we, you don't really do that. A lot. It was all, it was all mission, mission, mission, mission. Um, and we were the only place we went to is, you know, bad third world countries.

Uh, and not a lot of opportunities to meet women, uh, in the Ranger Regiment. Oh no, not, not even a little bit. Um, and then you go to this other place and it's like, it's, you know, Germany. Um, it was, uh, oh man, uh, the base was MK and that was in, uh Romania. And I always tell people, I was like, hey, if you want, uh, if you want a good vacation for a bottom dollar, go to Romania. So you're gonna have a lot of fun. We had— it was, it was bad. There was like a, a beach there that was a topless beach. And so like, you never— nobody was at that unit that was there. Nobody was ever there. Like, we were like, hey, it's, you know, Wednesday, where is everybody? It's in the summer. They're like, oh, they're all on the beach. Like, of course they are. What kind of PT we doing? Oh, we're doing beach PT.

Okay, cool. Hey, ask the Secret Service about Moldova. They had a great time out there.

I have a buddy that I work with now. One of the guys that I work now on the team is, uh, he's an ex-Secret Service guy, and I always give him hell about Colombia.

Oh yeah, Colombia.

Like, you know, they'll just pay the hookers, they'll—

they won't tell on you. My understanding was that was kind of like a setup, like it's a scam where like the girl pretends that she's just a normal girl that wants to sleep with you and then you get to the hotel room and it's like, oh, but yeah, you gotta pay me. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I would've been like, ah, just get out and here's some money. I'm, I'm gonna pay you to leave. How about that? Yeah.

Here, here's a 5 spot. See you later.

Yeah. Yeah. Those guys though, it was like SF though. Like SF, like those guys like constantly getting the 7th group, man. Just constantly getting in trouble. I know. I always give, I think, you know, Alejandro. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Me and him are good friends. Like, me and him are good friends. Every time I go to Colorado, we stop and visit him, uh, but, uh, and I talk to him all the time, but I always give him that— I was just like, yeah, man, it's like a Ranger, a Ranger and a Green Beret is like, sounds like you might have had a hooker problem.

So after— or no, you're still in the SFAB and you got deployed to, uh, Erbil.

Yeah, so my last deployment was in, uh, Erbil, Iraq, and we were working, uh, hand in hand with encouraged. So at that point, I kind of worked my way, and being a sniper, I think everybody kind of says that they're just like, oh, you're kind of like a, you're, you know, scout intel guy, you know stuff about intel. And then I went to school or two, and then I found myself as the chief intel guy for my, for the SFAB in Erbil. Uh, so apart from a lot of the stuff was— I wouldn't call it human stuff that we were doing. It was a lot of, um, checking in on guys. And then that's kind of where I learned a lot about the culture.

Oh, like liaison?

It wasn't a liaison because we were definitely— we were being used by, uh, other entities, uh, to collect, to give out like good information. So there was a lot of entities that we'd get downloads from. They'd be like, "What'd you see? What'd you do? Okay, I need you to ask for this when you go back. I need you to do this." There was points where we were pretty much running sources just because we were very in with the Kurds, and so we talked a lot to them. And like I said, as we are in Army, we trust people to a point, but then we're also keeping tabs on everybody. Everybody too. So that's a lot of what we were doing. So we had our side reports that we were writing, um, kind of collecting on other people, uh, which was a super interesting job, especially for a Ranger, because I'm going out there and I'm just like, okay, like, uh, you know, we'd go and look at their storehouses. One of us would pair up, like, peel off and go look at what they had, and then you'd compare it to numbers of what we— they actually said, and you'd be like, this dude lying.

And then not only is he lying, he's asking us for more stuff. And it was funny because one day I asked one of our Kurdish counterparts, I was like, what are you getting ready for? I was like, you got enough AT weapons in there to kickstart the next war. I was like, so what is it? And he was just like, oh, y'all are leaving soon. And he's like straight up looked at me in the face. He's like, as nice as you guys are, y'all aren't going to be here. For very much longer. And he's like, and then the Kurds are going to be left alone. Like, Kurdistan's gonna be— they called it Kurdistan, nobody else wanted to call it that. Um, but they're like, the Kurds are going to be left alone and we're gonna have to fight them. And I was just like, there was a point where I was like, now you're right. Like, yeah, like, okay, fair enough, man. Yeah, yeah.

It's always like one of those things where like, man, could you guys not like start a war with the Arabs at least while I'm here, please?

Yeah, like, and then So it was funny because the— that was right when I think the precursor to what's going on in Iran was going on then, uh, because we had an ICBM like alert where we all had to get in. They were like, hey, oh, is this—

is this when we smoked Soleimani and then they fired the ballistic missiles?

They fired the— they fired an ICBM and they were like, everybody get to a bunker. And I was like, why? Because it's like you know, we should really just get on top of one of these, uh, one of these chews and enjoy, enjoy what we— while we can. Um, but it's, it's that deployment kind of, um, as far as my military career is concerned, uh, really kind of opened my eyes to a lot. I know people get into a lot cooler stuff, but like having a career kind of like that, yeah, you're in like this intel world of you're playing like I was playing checkers and now I'm watching chess getting played with everybody. And it was, it's funny to come from kind of that, to be able to see all of that in a career. Just very odd. Like I said, there was times where I was listening to things and I was just like, this should be in a book. I was like, sometimes somewhere like this is like the truth is stranger than fiction. Like as much as we can write about things and make these stories up, it's like stranger things are happening.

Any stories like that that you can tell or that you can share?

One of my favorite stories was me and my partner got sent out to with some other agency guys to talk to two people. And it was because we were the only ones around. So they were just like, like, hey, we need you to go look at this. It ended up being two Russians that had stuffed their face full of, um, they were trying to get in, they had fake accents, they were trying to use fake accents saying they were from Tennessee but in a really bad way, uh, and what they were trying to do is they had gotten a bunch of dip and they were putting in their mouth, like the chaw in their mouth, so that they would, they were spitting and trying to do it. One of them never done it before. So it's puking, throwing up everywhere. Yeah. And cursing in Russian. So like, they called— they were the gate guards, like, hey, can y'all come and talk to these people? And we go over there and just like, oh. And immediately it was what you think. They were trying to gain access to the camp and get on. But we had a lot of stuff like that going on because our offices were outside of camp.

Like, we weren't on Erbil. Yeah, we were out in, we were out in the town, so we were like constantly going.

We were in civilian clothes going around doing, um, yeah, the Russian SVR has a, uh, station out there in Kurdistan.

Yeah, yeah, we knew, and we knew exactly where it was too. So, um, but the having been, having been there and to see all of that and others other stories of you were watching international play happen kind of right there, like, right, Portugal, like, and you can't— I can't really get into a lot of it, um, but, you know, in 25 years maybe I can write a book about something. Yeah, I hope so. But it's the, uh, being— going from, like, like I said, uh, we were talking before, going from the start of the war, me getting there as a, as a as a 19-year-old and being in Baghdad fighting and stuff like that. And then the end of my career, I think one of the times I was sitting on top of the, one of the airfield, not bunkers, but we climbed up on top of the, oh gosh, I'm trying to remember what it was, the hangars. And we were, there was a group of us sitting there smoking cigars on a hangar. And I was just like, it was, I didn't know at the time that that was gonna be my last deployment, but I knew I was coming towards the end.

Just, I had had a back injury and it had progressed to the point where I didn't know if I was gonna be able to keep going. And I was up on the 8 list, but it was just like, I knew it was, I was like, hey, my time's coming close to the end of this. So standing up there on the, again, going back to that, like you take snapshots of your service and the times you did stuff. And you think about from the time, from the firefights to the guys laughing, to watching sunrises come up over the Hindu Kush, or watching the sun go down over Baghdad by the Babylon Gates, or doing all of that and then being in Kurdistan and being over by the Iranian border, but looking down and out of the mountains and seeing how gorgeous it is. And then I think one of the last things I remember is being like on that hangar and smoking a cigar, watching these Sea Rams go off and being like, this was cool. This was a, this was a cool experience. And realizing that like the things that you touched through it, maybe it didn't affect so much, but it affected a lot to you.

So I think that's, that was kind of the, the end cap to my military career.

And when you got home, you went through the med board process?

Yeah, so, uh, went through med boards. The worst thing I think you can ever do. Um, the— what was rough about that was I thought I had more left in me. I, I was still doing a bunch of stuff. I'd like, uh, I think I was in my— I was like 36. I did Best Ranger at like 36, 37 years old. Holy shit. Um, And I still had, I was still doing a lot of stuff. Like I was still going out and training, running, CrossFit. I'd gotten into jiu-jitsu and I started competing in jiu-jitsu and I was just like, man, I got a ton. But there would be times where I couldn't get out of bed and I had to call somebody to my house to be like, hey, I need you to come and help me out of bed. And so I had been getting shots in my L or my S, It's like L5-S1. Yeah. And I'd been getting epidurals for a long time. And when we were in Erbil, we'd gotten into a little car wreck. We were with the Brits, you know, crazy, crazy Iraqi drivers don't know how traffic circles work, want to go in the wrong way, hit my car.

Back was a little messed up after it. And I was like, I'll be fine. I'll get back and it'll be good. I was on the E8 list, you know, getting ready to look at where I was going to go next, what I was going to do next. And I was actually looking at selection, another selection. And a doctor comes in, he's like, I've done all the x-rays and stuff. And she comes in and she's like, hey, she's the first thing she says is like, do you, do you want to walk when you're 60? I was like, what kind of question is that? Yeah, I want to walk when I'm 60. She's like, okay, then you're done. Like, you're med board— we're recommending med board right now. Um, we're gonna start going through the process and you're and you're essentially, you're finished. And I was just like, that took, that took a little bit to, um, kind of internalize.

Yeah, that took the wind out of your sails at that moment, didn't it?

Yeah, I wasn't ready for that. I was just like, I, I didn't think I was gonna do— in fact, I'd made a promise to my ex-wife that I was going to die at my desk so that she didn't get any retirement. Um, so, uh, I was like, I was, I was fully intending on following through with that. Uh, so, uh, you know, I had— that had kind of taken, taken me aback a little bit. But then at that point, I had met somebody. She was in Dallas, and I was just like, I was over the moon for her. And so I was just like, okay, maybe this isn't too bad. Uh, kind of started getting the feeling that I was on my way out, trying to make peace with it, and then started trying to like make those plans, but the Army makes it really hard to make plans for that. Yeah. So eventually, uh, they approved it. Uh, I got out. Uh, what I will say is the Army does need to do a better job in TAPS. The regiment does a fantastic job, I will say that. Uh, regiment is, I think, one of the— and that's just because now I work a little bit with them, but the Ranger for Life program and the the way they do it is so much better for Rangers in general.

I didn't have that option at that point, or I had the option. I just, I think there was a point in time where I was in a little bit of a denial. I was like, well, maybe this won't go through. And then it came to a point in time where it was just like, oh no, it's time for you to leave now. Like, you're done. So yeah. Med boarded out, started my transition. The transition's probably, like I said, one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. It's— I can see where guys just self-destruct at the end of it. You come from— you're coming from, like me, I think I have 71 months deployed, 71 to 75 months deployed overseas. Holy shit. And it's— that was like, you can't tell me that like at 19, like when my frontal lobe's not even really developed yet, at 19, this is the way of life I learned. And then at the end of it say, hey, thanks for playing, talk to you later. Yeah, good game. Uh, and then all of a sudden one day you find yourself and you're like, I'm not that thing anymore.

I'm not, I'm not Ranger. I'm not a Ranger. I'm not a I'm not operating in austere environments anymore. There's no next deployment for me. And I think that's kind of what took a long time to— even when I got out. So I got out, actually, I did the very private thing. I feel like when I got out, I did everything in one year. So I, I guess I met somebody I was over the moon for. We kind of— we have a a very, uh, that's an interesting story, and that's something I'm kind of— I'm writing about now because of how funny that was. Uh, but met, uh, got married, uh, moved, uh, blended families, bought a house, uh, all in that year that I got out of the— like, right before I got out of the Army, and then got out of the Army. So it was— that probably didn't help the situation any much more, but, uh, just of going through it and having to realize that that wasn't me and then find a new purpose. So that was the, that was the hard part.

And I mean, how did that come about? You mentioned to me that you worked in project management for like 6 months and that helped teach you what you didn't want to do.

Oh yeah, I don't recommend it for, for, for men of our ilk and, uh, people, men of our, uh stature and, uh, I'm gonna say men of action, I don't recommend going to be a project manager. Like, that's the— like, you gotta kind of be dishonest to everybody. Everything's for Lowe's better. Um, and then like, you're like, yeah, this building may fall down, but like, I got it done under budget.

Yeah, we got a lot of that here in New York City.

Oh God, yeah. And so I hated it. I hated— when I realized what it was, I was just like, this is not for me. And I would go to work and just dread it. I would, I'd wake up and tell my wife, I was like, I don't wanna go to work today. Like, I really don't. And then, you know, being, learning that like nobody was gonna yell at me if I didn't go to work was fun because then I would just be like, you know what, I'm not going to work and I don't have to give you a reason why. Like, and so that was the funny part of the whole thing. And it was fun because I was working with one of my best friends, Anthony Wilstrom, who's a mentor in jiu-jitsu for me. And me and him kind of worked together a little bit too. And we had those conversations all the time. I was just like, man, I was just like, what would happen if I just broke my leg and didn't show up? And he's just like, you don't have to go that far. Just don't show up. So it got into that and really learned that that's not where I wanted to be or what I wanted to do.

I wanted a little bit more purpose in, uh, in my life. So, uh, kicked around being a cop, uh, talked to my dad, who's a— he's a retired Dallas police officer, and he's like, don't be a cop right now. He's like, it's rough. Uh, he's like, and you, you stand a good chance of going to jail, like, more than anybody else, just because of our service. Uh, talked to some other guys, and it's like I think especially coming from where we came from, violence is a thing that we do well, and it's our spoken language. And so with normal beat cops, that's something that they have to learn over time. When you put a guy like us in it and we already know it, um, our threshold for 'I'm going to kill you' is so much lower. And so when it's the— when that threshold is lower, you're— you I think we don't understand why, like, the, you know, this guy pulls out a knife and I blast him, like, but I did it, like, I shot him 20 times instead of, like, the, the cursory 3 or 4.

Uh, you don't, you don't comply and the nightstick is coming out, bro.

Yeah, like, yeah, like, it's that or, like, uh, ooh, a fight, like, I'm into this. So it was funny because my dad was just like, hey, maybe that's not is something you want to get into right now. And honestly, I still kick that around a little bit. My wife is in law enforcement. She's in federal law enforcement. And so, you know, she's always the one kind of telling me, she's like, yeah, maybe not that. Maybe we don't get sued this month. So learning that though from the project management point and then trying to figure out what I wanted to do, I got really lucky and stumbled into what I'm doing now. And so essentially, that is, I work for Allegiance Project Security, and it is a company, security company that takes veterans and we try to put them into schools and churches, which is, it's funny because after Uvalde happened, I remember having a conversation, I was in AMU, having a conversation with my partner Chris, and it was just like, hey, why, like, we should put like special operations guys in, like they don't want to be cops or anything like that. They should— we should stick them into schools.

Well, um, Matthew Easter, uh, who's the president and the owner of the company, had that idea. He's not a special operations guy. He's never been in the military. He never did anything like that. What he does have is a wife that's a teacher that he's worried about, and he was just like, why aren't we taking these guys who already did this and put them into these schools and churches. And it's funny because I say that when I think about Uvalde and situations like that, because now it's my job to think about those security risks in schools, in churches, and red team that— take that intelligence background, red team it, and say, what would I do if I was— if I really wanted to cause damage, what would I do? Um, and I take Uvalde as a I always tell the story around people, but people were talking to— I take Uvalde, and what I take from that is it's not that police officer's fault. Um, he learned that he was not about that life at that door, at that breach. Realized that's not what he's built for. What now kind of the, the mission is, is to take guys that are built for that.

They pretty much did a year, years in their lifetime of running through doors. Uh, and not only that, but made that decision of life or death. Like, hey, I could die in this room. Because you remember what they told us when we were doing CQB and stuff like that. They're like, you're running into a room with, um, 4 guys, like 4 or 5 guys. You're running in a group with 4 or 5 guys on your team, and then a room with a couple guys who have guns. Somebody's getting shot, somebody's getting killed. And there's a really good chance that a lot of you are, are getting shot in that room. So the— that when I say that, that it's not that cop's fault, it's because he had that thought right at that door. We had probably the same thoughts that we did during training, where you kind of internalize it. You're like, oh God. But we got indoctrinated into it. We lived it. We were, uh, that's— that we understood that that was our purpose. Like, we— our purpose was to run into doors. Like run into danger, run into doors. We were going to breach that threshold.

We were going to jump out of that airplane. So the question of life and death never stopped entering our mind, and it was like, how do I get in here and how do I stop the threat? Um, so that's what this, this organization basically does, is we're trying to take guys like that, usher them into, uh, civilian life by easing them into it, not taking everything away that they are, not taking the gun away from them, not taking the brotherhood away from them, uh, not taking, uh, that culture away from them, and slowly kind of saying, hey, like, you're not running through those doors. There's not— this isn't a TST right now. Could be, um, but what your job is, is we're going to give you that new mission to protect these children, protect these churches. Once you do that, like, you start kind of easing them into it. And then eventually the, the point of the whole thing is for that guy one day to say, hey, I'm done, I think I got it out of my system. I think I've transitioned enough to— like a stepping stone. Yes. So it's almost like, uh, essentially we're drug addicts when you leave the regiment, when you leave, uh, the military.

We're— I'm an adrenaline junkie. I still do. I fight. I go fight people on my off time for competition because I like it, because I like the way it makes me feel. Um, I'm a drug addict as far as like that adrenaline. I'm always looking for that next rush, that next thing. We are all like that, and you got to kind of step yourself down from it. So you never just take a dude off cold turkey. And essentially, that's why I have a problem with the TAPs in the military, the way they do, uh, offloading of, uh, in retirements and pushing people out of the Army, because they essentially just drop you off at the bus stop and say, hey, good luck, man. Like, and so, um, getting into that though has really kind of made me, uh, really kind of given me that new purpose. Uh, and then aside from that, I do the, uh, the mercenary thing. Um, I'm a gun for hire. I always tell guys, we'll have gun, we'll travel. Um, I've done a lot of executive protection work, um, done some overseas stuff. And that's, I think, for a lot of us, and especially Rangers and Special Operations, that's where we, we end up there, um, not because we want to, but because that's what we know.

I know a lot of guys that do a good job in the transition, um, I just— stepping away from it's always been one of those things where it's, it's hard to do, and I'm only a year out, so I'm— yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm still in that point where I'm not looking for a fight but still kind of stepping myself down from it.

I, I totally get it, man. And I mean, like you said, you're a year out from retirement. And I swear to God, I was only in the Army for 8 years, but it took me at least another 8 years to de-Army myself and become something else and do something else. So for a guy like you, somebody that did 20 years or whatever, it's just fundamentally a part of who you are. Like you said, I mean, it's You can't really deny it, you know, that's, that's who you are.

I don't think you're ever going to really get away from it either. Like, um, I tell my wife all the time, I was like, I, I still have dreams, and I dream in green sometimes. I dream, I dream of running off a ramp, uh, I dream in, you know, white phosphorus. Like, I, I dream in those colors. White hot. Yeah, yeah, in those places that I don't think they'll ever believe you. I think, I think that'll always be a part of us, and it's just a figuring out how to, to combine those worlds if that's what you want to do. There's some guys that get out. Uh, Kyle McMaster is a farmer, uh, you know, and he was, he was in B-Co for a long time, did a lot of stuff. That guy's a farmer now. Uh, one of my buddies, Chris, uh, he's I would say, like, I used to say that that guy killed more people than the plague, and he's a therapist now. That's amazing. It's just the people— there's people who do well at it.

Well, sometimes people go into a profession because they're trying to learn it for themselves. Yeah, no, and that's definitely—

that is, that is definitely Chris. Um, and he's another one that he got injured at just the beat— the beating that your body takes out from a lifetime of that, you're not going to be able to sustain it. You're not going to be able to keep going. There's a point where your body's going to fail you. Uh, so yeah, so it's the— I think for guys like us, the most important thing is— and again, that's what Allegiance Project Foundation does— is we're, we're trying to offer you— where we try to offer the guys a community again. To say, hey, don't step away. Like, we isolate— every Ranger that I ever knew that killed themselves isolated themselves. Yeah, it was a— they, they took themselves from the pack. They, they decided that they were going to do it by themselves and then never made it. And we don't make it through Ranger School by ourselves. We never made it through those deployments by ourselves. So I'm not— I don't understand why guys think that you're gonna make it through the rest of this by yourself. Yeah, yeah. So what was So Three Rangers, Allegiance Projects Foundation, both of them are offering that tribe.

We're a tribe, like special, especially in special operations. The big Army's their own tribe, or whatever service that you did, you have that tribe in there. And then I have friends, I have really good friends that are SEALs that I met here, and they're their own tribe. They have their own jokes. And then we have Green Berets, they're their own tribe. They have their own jokes. Rangers, we're— we have our own tribe. We're all tribal and we stay within those. But especially when you get out, it's important that I don't have friends that are just Ranger. I don't just stick around with Rangers because I never find them. There's not— they're few and far between out here. Most of us are scattered. Um, I have friends that are SEALs and we sit around, we talk about everything, anything. Um, so finding more destinations, a And that's, I think, one of the biggest things that's helped me. It's fine because I was in a deep, dark hole too. My wife, God bless her, she married me and probably at the worst, the furthest down I could be at that point. And so, but finding, A, finding those communities, getting with those, getting with your tribe, find your tribe, find the other special operations guys, and then fight off the drop zone together, which is now life.

Um, and then the other thing too is that like a lot of these guys, uh, I don't know what it is, we get divorced like it's going out of style. Um, just maybe that's the Ranger way, but realize that like you've made mistakes in your life and to find that person. Um, like you said, uh, my wife, I met her— this is actually a really funny story and something I'm writing about. But, uh, we met on Hinge, and I'm not afraid to say that. Like, I was getting out, kind of knew I was coming back to Dallas. So I get on Hinge, we get— we get on Hinge and we meet each other. And it's funny because, um, at the time I was still working kind of some of the intel piece, and her Hinge profile said, uh, it said like law or something like that. I didn't know what that meant. And so we start meeting, we start talking, and through conversations we're not being 100% open with what we are, but you can kind of tell. And so I go to the first date, hug her, realize that there's a gun on her.

And so when I hug her—

She brought a gun to the date?

I was like, there's a gun. There's— I was like, there's a gun. I was like, maybe it's just super 2A or something. And so I was like, this is Dallas, you know, maybe. And so we sit down and we start talking and I start realizing from training, I'm in an interrogation. Like, it is going exactly interrogation. I'm in danger. Yeah. Immediately, it was like, oh no, like, who is she? What is this? What have I gotten myself into? And so I start going through your usual, like, what they train you. You start answering with one words, asking, like, certain questions. Like, if you're going to ask questions, you're asking questions. And then, you know, if they say anything, it's, you know, deny, deny, deny, make counter accusations. It's like, no, you're gorgeous.

Uh, yeah, you're ready to karate chop her in the neck and run.

Yeah, yeah. I'm like sitting there looking at exits being like, all right, so how am I getting out of here? I was like, because she's definitely armed. Uh, and so through the course of this date, um, we're kind of very subversive, uh, and during the speaking to each other, just texting Meanwhile, I don't know that later on I find out behind the scenes, like, an entire dossier is getting made about me. She's like open sourcing me. She's looking up all this stuff. She's found a video that was in— that I had made in AMU like years before about like teaching. And so we start going through this song and dance and there's a point where at the end of it I was just like, yeah, I was like, I think you're something else. And she was just like, I think you're something else. And I was just like, I was like, I am in the Army. I was like, I work intel stuff. And I was like, I'm a, I'm a Ranger. I was like, I was a Ranger. And she goes, uh, and she just comes out with it. She's like, oh yeah, I'm federal law enforcement.

So then that starts the whole thing where, uh, we've, we kind of have grown in that where I did all that. I made a mistake one time where we were, we were talking and I hadn't sent her this, but this picture showed up late. Uh, it was at Halloween and I was like, oh, I'm a Navy SEAL. And apparently so many Navy SEALs have said that they're Navy SEALs here that— and as far as dating is concerned, that she was just like, oh yeah, she another Navy SEAL, go great. You know that joke that there's, you know, a thousand Navy SEALs and I've all— I've met all 7,000 of them. Um, so she kind of went through that, almost dropped me off the app, but it's kind of cool because I found somebody who understands the work, understands me, uh, and then we actually started, uh, she's a firearms instructor too, and so we actually trained together. Cool. Um, she got me into this Police Week, uh, thing where I went in and got to shoot with her in armor. We did some stuff, and so I have this picture that's pretty funny where we're sitting on a car, a shot-up car, and it says— I have the black box over our eyes and mine says "Merc" and hers says "Stun." So it's— but the story is too that I think we're hard on ourselves in our lives.

As a Ranger, you're so hard, you know, you're so hard that you don't find the connections. And you don't connect with somebody. And so I think as far as finding your tribe, finding your community, the other important thing is find that person, find that person for you. Because we do a lot of damage to ourselves in our relationships while we were in the regiment. We put everything first. Like, you, everything, nothing circumvented the mission. Nothing circumvented. You wanted to go on that next deployment. You wanted to do the next thing. And to survive all of that, you had to put your family on the back burner. So once guys get out, they still get in that mindset, and it's like, hey, you don't have to ruin everything now. You can, you can go be happy. Um, so I really think out of all the friends that I've seen that have— Rangers, uh, that have taken their lives— those are the two key components that I think they need to realize, um, and, uh, reach out and actually say, hey, I'm gonna give life a try now. But that happened.

That's like such a— like, when we say it out loud, it's such an odd thing to say, but it's, it's totally true that, you know, you have to give yourself permission to enjoy life and to find something that you like. You know, it's beyond, you know, that sense of duty, but something for yourself. Yeah, it's—

and I think it's just hard for us. It's because you don't, you don't do all of that without coming out of it without some kind of identity crisis that you take it away from. Um, it's just a— it's so ingrained in us, everything. Like, if you think back to like anything we did in the regiment, um, it's funny because I laugh about the like it's so indoctrinated in us and anything in the regiment. We sing songs about us, like, we're like— and not only do we sing songs about us, the Army sings songs about us. So we're this big giant thing and we don't stop to realize that we're also human in that. Yeah, like, there's a point where we got— we have to say, hey, like, I was that for that reason for that time, and now it's time to be something else. It's time to— I'm— and, and I'll admit I'm it's not time to lose the Ranger in you. It's not time to lose that identity, but it's time to take on another mission. Yeah, I'm a Ranger and I can be used at anything. And that's, I think, our biggest strength.

I can literally do anything. I can do anything that anybody wants me to do. And I've suffered so much that I can suffer through a whole lot more. Um, but that gives us a unique skill set in this world now. Where now you can— you, you are probably more driven than 99.9% of society. Absolutely. And all, and then all you have to do is go out and find that thing.

Um, so yeah, Louie, tell us where people can go to find, uh, what is it, Alliance and, uh, Three Rangers.

So Three Rangers Foundation is, um, the one you can go to, uh, threerangersfoundation.org. Dot org. Yeah, yes, dot org. And then I'd ask— I had to ask my better half, uh, and then, uh, the, uh, Allegiance Project, uh, Foundation is also— is a dot org. And then there's AllegianceProjectSecurity.com. Okay, the security side is actually a security company. So if guys need any help with like getting into the security industry Man, I got it in spades. You guys come to me and, uh, uh, I'm sure there's a way we can leave my email up. Email me, talk to me, um, I'll get you to know how. I'll even help get you your Level 3, Level 4 in Texas if you need it. We have guys for that.

We'll put some links down in the description, but if you want to give out your email, I mean, feel free.

Yeah, so, uh, my, uh, my work email is, uh, Luis, L-U-I-S, at allegianceproject.org, uh, all one word. And, uh, just like I said, email me there, uh, for any guys that want it. And I can— we're very connected. Uh, the other thing we're doing, uh, if anybody's in Texas, uh, during October 3rd— everybody knows what October 3rd is, uh, I'm assuming it's the, uh, Gothic— yeah, it's Gothic Serpents. So we're actually putting on, uh, 3 Rangers and, uh, Allegiance Project Foundation is actually putting on the first Mogadishu mile in Dallas. So we're going to be in Corinth, Texas. Uh, we got a great place. We're trying to get as many Rangers out. And again, that's that community thing, finding your tribe. We're inviting SEALs. I'm gonna make fun of some SEALs. Uh, you know, I'll be like, hey, do you need me to carry you out of here? Like, do we get to the halfway point, you want me to carry you back? Like, how are we doing this? Don't get on a ridge or anything. Uh, but the— it's finding that, it's being able to, to kind of chat it up and find this.

But we're putting on that run for the guys that aren't at Benning that think that they can make it here so that we can get communities going everywhere. The goal is that one day, like on October 3rd, we're celebrating all of that. Like all of us are celebrating Gothic Serpent. We're celebrating that portion of our history and actually just making it almost like a big reunion that we don't have to get together during funerals. Can get together.

Hell yeah. Are you also on social media at all? Anywhere else people can go to find you?

Yeah. So IG, from the later days, is Diego de la Vega. So I'm a reader and aspiring writer too. So Diego de la Vega was the real name of Zorro, but that's my name on Instagram, uh, and Facebook. So anybody can go on and find me there. Also, uh, we run a company, a training company, San Strategic, uh, and that's on IG too. And you guys all can answer there too. And if anybody's in Texas and just wants to come out and shoot, that'd be awesome.

Well, Louie, thank you so much for this interview and telling your story. It's been great. Uh, is there anything else that you'd like to bring up, anything that I didn't ask during this interview that you'd like to talk about? Oh man, uh, there's some—

like, again, you go through that and I'm sure you, you run into this. It's like you remember things, you're like, oh, remember that story, and remember that story. Um, I'm sure I'll be sitting around one day and I'll be like, oh, I could have, I could have, uh, I could have said this is this, you know, X, Y, and Z, or I could have gone through something else.

It's okay, you come here to the studio if you're ever coming through New New York City and we'll smoke some cigars and we'll tell the other stories.

You know, I saw you, you were smoking cigars. I'm a big fan of cigars too. I smoke a lot of them. I smoke them out back because my wife hates the smell. I have to come in and shower if I do do it, um, which was great because when we were dating, uh, she takes me— when we— so 2 months into dating, uh, my now wife, uh, says, hey, you want to go to Vegas? I was like, yeah, what for? I've never been to Vegas, but sure. And she goes, oh, we're gonna go to SHOT Show. It's like, this is like 2 months into dating, and I was just like, I'm gonna marry you. So I— the cursory thing is, 2 months into dating, you don't know a lot about each other other than you like each other. So I don't know some things, and I was just like, oh man, I really want to go to a cigar bar in Vegas. And so she's like, yeah, let's go. Little did I know that she was in the bathroom like snorting, uh, Zyrtec because she's extremely allergic to cigars. And then let's meet— we go into the cigar bar and like, she's, she's a champ about it.

Like, I didn't realize it until like a year later where she told me. She's like, yeah, I'm super allergic to cigars.

Yeah, there's like 30 people in there puffing away.

Oh yeah, she— and she was a champ too when I was deployed. Uh, she, uh, um, goes to every Uh, every few— like every month she would go over to, uh, this place with Cigar Internationals and she would get the cigars I like and she'd buy them in boxes and then ship them over to Iraq. Bless her soul. Do what? Bless her soul. Oh yeah, no, she is fantastic. I realized that I was getting married real quick. Uh, but it was funny because she ended up winning a Drew Estate humidor, and she doesn't smoke cigars at all. And so she had got— she had entered this, uh, they'd given her a couple tickets because she buys cigars there. And they call her and they're like, oh, you won this. And she said she was walking out of there, she was like, I almost got jumped. Everybody wanted this thing. It's really cool. It's a, uh, uh, it's— if you do any of the Drew Estate stuff, uh, they got the Deadwood series, and it's all the, like, the old Deadwood uh, hookers basically. And, uh, but the, the humidor that she got holds— I think it holds like 240 cigars, but it's, uh, Spanish wood and it's in the shape of a coffin.

I have seen those. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So she won that, and like, she doesn't smoke. They were just like, oh, do you smoke cigars? She's like, no, it's for my boyfriend. That's awesome. So super cool.

Uh, but yeah, well, I'm gonna go and check out Drew Estate Humidors. Uh, well, Louie, thanks again, man. Really appreciate it. Yeah, thank you.

I really appreciate, really appreciate the time, guys, um, to be able to tell my story and, and really to get them, uh, kind of the reliving of the mission of A, Rangers and helping out my tribe, because I owe everything to the Ranger Regiment. And then the other thing is, is like being able to get that message out of helping the guys at the end of it. Like, we, we should all be able to tell our stories, tell how we got there, the times we got to look at things, the, the hurts, the pains, whatever it is. And then at the end of it, say, because of that, I'm this. And I hope that everybody like you, you're like, like a writer, which amazing. Like, I want to do writing too. I'm just, I don't think I'm as articulate as I could be.

It's a skill. It's a, it's a learnable skill like anything else.

Yeah, I promise you. But I think being able to say, get the message out there that we, we are Rangers, but that means that we can do anything. We were given the— we were picked, we were specially selected to, to do that job. But specially selected means we can almost do anything we want. That wasn't just for the Ranger Regiment, it was a specially selected person, a type of person who, who would have succeeded at anything.

Yeah, to not pigeonhole yourself that if you want to go and get MBA or you want to become an astrophysicist, like you can do those things. Yeah. Don't get down. You know, some of the guys I find get down on themselves and think, I'm just a dumb Ranger. I can't do anything else.

It's like, no, that's bullshit. No, you are a Ranger. You can do everything. Yeah. Like we have innate abilities that were given to us, A, by the generations before, other Rangers that we learned from, and then we passed down to other Rangers that learned from us, that we would— we are the type of people— I think this is true of most special operations— we're the type of people that would have been successful almost at anything. You could have put us anywhere. You always look at these other Rangers that are— or other, uh, special operations guys that are doing businesses, doing this, this and that. You're literally taking somebody who would have been He would've been a professional athlete if it wasn't for the war. He would've been a, like, if he had gotten the college education that he can still go and get, you would've been a Fortune 500. You would've been leading titans of industry. We can do anything. I think it's just we pigeonhole ourselves into what we were and being that warrior, the fighter, the soldier. And we say, that's the only thing I could've done. It's like, no. Yeah, it means a lot more.

So absolutely, I appreciate being able to get that message out anytime I can though.

Yeah, hell yeah. Yeah, absolutely, man. And thank you to everyone who joined us tonight. Uh, appreciate you coming by and checking out the team house again. And, uh, we will see you guys next week. So thank you, Louie. Hope you have a good time. Hit us up if you're ever coming through the city.

Yes, sir, I will.

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