Transcript of #354 Reckless Ben - The Internet's Most Controversial Investigative YouTuber

Reckless Ben, welcome to the show, man.

Yeah, thanks for having me. Uh, I'm excited.

Thanks for coming. Dude, you've been in some shit.

Yeah. Uh, I would say still am.

Yeah. Yeah, I saw you got legal stuff going on, but how long ago—how long ago did you start this whole thing?

The, like, YouTube or?

Yeah.

So I started slacklining before YouTube, and then I would film myself slacklining and just post it to YouTube, like, just doing tricks and stuff.

Yeah.

And then, I don't know, after that I was like, I kind of liked, like, how people would, like, watch me doing slacklining, so I was like, how can I make this cooler? So then I would do weird stuff where I'd, like, set up the slackline over, like, a busy bike path where people were biking underneath me and doing backflips over their heads.

Slackline's like you just—it's like a cable that you put in between trees or two armchairs, whatever, and walk it like a slack.

That's how most people slackline, but I like doing, like, backflips and, like, crazy flips and spins on it and stuff. Um, and then once that got boring, it was like, okay, where are the worst places I can set this up at? So we'd set it up over, like, spiky rocks, like 20 feet in the air, like, but then it's like, if I fall, only I'm getting hurt. So then we would set it up over, like, a bike path, and then other people would, like, over people's heads, so if I fall, we're going to cause, like, a crazy bike accident, you know? So that way there's, like, big pressure not to fall. It's like, I really have to be good, you know? It was, like, a real test of how good I am slacklining.

Holy shit, dude.

And then, I don't know, so then I started posting stuff like that, and then after that, I don't know, I just moved to California for slacklining, and California is big for Scientology, and I was like, what goes on inside? And I would always Google it, and I couldn't find anything. I was like.

That was your first thing?

Yeah.

That's a big one.

And I was, uh, homeless living in my car at the time because I just was like, I just wanted to go out to California, you know? I just wanted to live out there and just become the world's best slackliner, you know? I would just live in my car and just train slacklining every day so I didn't have a house or anything. It was like, all my energy I just wanted to put into being the best slackliner ever. And then, um, so I was like, at this point, because I heard that, like, Scientology will, like, sue you or they could even, like, just, like, try and ruin your life.

Mm-hmm.

I was like, I have no life, so how can they ruin my life, you know? So, because that was the reason why—because there's all these, like, documentaries that have, like, million-dollar budgets, you know? That try and, like, find out what goes on inside, and they can never do it.

Yeah.

But I think it's because they had something to lose, you know? Uh, because they could get sued, and they have money to lose. But me, I was like, I have nothing to lose. I can go in Scientology, and what are they going to do to me? You know, I'm already living in my car. Like, how can my life be ruined?

There is a saying: never mess with somebody that doesn't have anything to lose.

Yeah, it's been my whole.

Was that one?

That's been my whole YouTube career. Yep. That's how I get away with everything, because I've, yeah, I just, I'm such like a minimalist, I guess. I don't need anything to be happy except for doing fun stuff.

That's a good way to live, dude. Let me give you an introduction here. Reckless Ben, you're an investigative documentary creator and YouTuber at the forefront of a new wave of independent investigative journalism. Your investigations have taken you inside Scientology, Twelve Tribes, McCamey Manor, and Provo Canyon School, documenting allegations of abuse, manipulation, and exploitation. Most recently, you've investigated allegations of human trafficking and sexual abuse connected to the Ideal Living controversy, pushing the boundaries of traditional journalism while facing significant personal, physical, and legal risks.

Oh, thanks.

It's, and, um, so, and I didn't even know about this one, but the Yellow Deli?

Yeah. That's like a restaurant, I guess.

No, I know. So, a long time ago, when I first moved here, there's this town, like, maybe an hour south of here called Pulaski. Have you heard of it?

No.

They have a Yellow Deli there.

Well, I think their headquarters are in Nashville, I think. I think that's.

Are you serious?

That's where the whole thing, like, started. It's in, it's like their home base is Nashville.

So we went, so Pulaski is an interesting town, and, uh, supposedly, like, supposedly it's like where the KKK started, and it's like, it's like, it's a weird spot. And so, um, before I knew any of that, we were actually, I don't even know if we moved here yet. I think we were, like, looking for a place in Tennessee to live, and, and, uh, we couldn't really afford anywhere here.

But is it still, like, active there?

I don't know. But, um.

It's just crazy people, I guess? Like.

No, I mean, I think it, that was like, what, 9 years ago? And I have been back there, and it's, it's, it's developed, uh, quite a bit from what it was.

That's good.

But, um, but it was dinner time or whatever, and we wanted to stop somewhere and get somewhere to eat, and there was, like, dude, there's, like, nothing in that town at this time. And we ran into this place called the Yellow Deli. It was, like, the only place that was open. And so we pulled in, went in, really odd. Like, it looked like the whole restaurant, I don't know if they all look the same, but the whole restaurant looked like a jungle.

Yeah.

Like, the stairs, how they treated you, like, weird shitty eating grins and smirks on their faces and stuff.

That's the thing I noticed, because, and once you, like, live there for a little bit, you can kind of tell that they're all miserable, because they're all overworked, they have no sleep, they're just kind of like, okay, like, we're being tortured right now, but it's okay, because that's going to get us into a better afterlife, you know? Like, if we have miserable lives now, but it'll be worth it in the end. But they have to pretend to be happy at the Yellow Deli, because that's where they're recruiting you. So there are these miserable people that have to put on a smile, and you can kind of tell when someone's, like, faking a smile like that.

They seem drugged.

Yeah.

Like, they.

Well, I don't think they are, because they don't do drugs, but.

It was like, it was a very, like, very hippie kind of vibe.

They don't do drugs, though. They're all sober. Um, so.

Like, like in a trance. Like, not, not like high on, like, meth or opiates or anything like that.

When I was there, they had us work, it was like 12-hour manual labor in the, well, I was there, like, during one of the hottest months, but it was 100 degrees, and I don't know if everywhere's like this, but we had to, I was, like, shoveling, like, things for, like, 12 hours a day. And then after that, then you have to go to the restaurant and work for another, like, couple hours. So everyone was just, like, dead. Um.

So hold on. I'm, I'm just, like, I'm personally curious on this one, because we went there, and I, I still talk about this, because it was such a weird experience. And me and my wife left there and were like, what, like, what is that? Like, what, who is the authority, and what the hell is going on in there? You can tell it's occult. It's occult.

Yeah.

So, how did it pop on your radar?

So one of my friends, his name's Danny Burke, I was doing a couple videos with him. Uh, he's just, like, some surfer dude from San Diego, and he knows that I was, like, that I did the Scientology video, and that was, like, occult, and that I did some other things that were occult-related, and he's like, dude, I got a pretty crazy cult you could infiltrate. I just went to this restaurant with my, uh, girlfriend, and we think it's occult. And.

Same experience.

And I, I just looked at him, I was like, no, like, I'm like, come on. I'm like, he's, oh, you're probably exaggerating or whatever. I'm like, there's no way. You just have, like, a bad restaurant experience. Maybe you had, like, a bad waiter or something, you know? And so I was, like, skeptical, and we were just talking, I was like, yeah, yeah, okay, you know? And then I'm like, okay. He's like, it's on the way home. Just go and, like, eat there on the way home, you know? So, as I'm driving back to Los Angeles, we stopped there, and then within, like, 30 seconds, I'm like, I think this is occult, you know? Like, this is crazy. Uh, like, our waiter came, and he's like, I love you, you know?

Tell me about it. How did you get in? They just invited you?

Yeah, he said, come back to the farm. So we went back to the farm with him.

That, that night?

Yeah. And then he said, so it was me and Danny doing it. So we had spy glasses, because we wanted to, like, document it. And so the thing with spy glasses, they only last, like, an hour and a half. So we had, I think, like, four pairs with us, but then you have to charge them, and they don't have any electricity there. So Danny said that he was, like, dog sitting. So I would actually spend the night, and I slept there for, like, three weeks. Uh, and then Danny would be like, oh, I'm dog sitting. Like, I already have this prior commitment. Like, the dog will die if I don't go back home.

What was, I mean, so, what are you doing there? What are the living conditions?

So most of it was manual labor. Um, we had to, and obviously, we have to run this farm, and there's, like, 20 people running this huge farm. Uh, so that way they can have food for the restaurant. So we're constantly, like, digging, and I was a guy, so I was, like, constantly, like, digging and doing, like, the manual stuff. Um, and then we all lived in a yurt. So it was a giant yurt, and there was, like, probably 20 of us, and they all had bunk beds. And so we just all slept in one room together.

What did they talk about?

Um, so they believe in the same Bible that Christians believe in, uh, but they just have a very weird interpretation of it. So they're talking about, like, what God was actually meaning by these, like, verses. And I grew up, uh, I heard, you're Catholic, right?

Yeah.

Uh, so I grew up Catholic also. I went to a Catholic school, first through eighth grade. And so I was taught one version of the Bible, and their version is just, like, the weirdest version I've ever heard in my life. Like, it's so strange. Uh, it's, I don't know, like, um, like, I guess, for example, some of the weird stuff that they believe is, like, um, obviously they were, like, the KKK is, like, good. Like, basically.

The KKK is good?

Yeah, because they were, like, one of the things they told me was Peak America was when slavery happened. And the only.

So that's why they're in Pulaski.

Yeah.

That makes, that's, no shit.

But they, they told me that America was awesome and exactly how God wanted America to be until slaves got freed. And that's when God got mad at America, was because we freed the slaves, and now all these sinners are in, uh, America now. And, and America can't be a functioning country if, if black people aren't involved, you know? So that's, that, it's, uh, now it's like a sinful country, I guess. And, uh, I don't know.

That was some of the more extreme stuff. Um, some of, I mean, there is some stuff that's, like, not as extreme. Like, uh, basically, like, they're like, women have, like, belong in the kitchen. That's their role, and the man has to, like, work and stuff. Like, a woman can't have the man's role. A man can't have the woman's role. That was, like, a huge thing. So then we, like, uh, like, obviously, like, we wanted to be, like, entertaining and funny. So we made, like, parody TikToks accounts for ourselves. Like, we pretend to be, like, famous TikTokers, like me and Danny. So his, on his TikTok, he's like, you know what?

So how do they, how do they suck these people in?

Um, the Yellow Deli, I think. People go to the restaurant, and the food's really good. Like, uh, I mean, I don't know if you liked it, but I really, really liked the food. There was no pesticide. It was all organic. Um, like, handmade, you know? And it's amazing food. It's cheap too, because they don't pay the workers. So, uh, um, yeah, because they, their, uh, their payment is heaven, I guess. Like, eternal life in heaven. So, uh, yeah, it's, you can get really good food for really cheap. Um, and then people are like, oh, this is awesome, you know?

And that worked on you?

Yeah. And we knew it was a cult, and we still got brainwashed, kind of.

Are you serious? How did you know you were brainwashed?

I don't know, because they kept saying things like, uh, because if you're just told stuff, like, every single day, you kind of start to believe it. I think it's, you've probably heard that metaphor. It's like, show me who your top four friends are, and I'll tell you what type of person you are, you know? Like, you are, like, the people you surround yourself with. I think it's just how our brains work. So if you're just told the same lie over and over, you kind of start to believe it, I guess. So after, like, week three of me living there, because I, I kind of lost sense of, like, what was happening on the outside world.

Are you serious?

That was crazy. Uh, it was pretty insane.

Wow.

Um, there was a little bit more to it. I guess there was a part two where I was like, yeah, they don't believe in medicine. That's another big, big part. Because we were like, the doctor said all she has to do is, like, take this, like, pneumonia medicine, and she'll just be better tomorrow, like, in, like, an hour. And they're like, no, tell her she can't take the medicine. That's, like, evil. Like, like, medicine is, like, a man-made creation. Like, if God wants her to survive, like, God will, like, uh, he'll, like, heal her. So, like, if she's dying, like, God wants her to die. And, like, by her taking medicine, that's, like, humans intervening with God's plan, I guess, is what they were taught.

Yeah, I've heard that one.

So it's like, uh.

Before too.

Oh, that's what came to my mind with that. I think the same thing with medicine. It's like, you know, it's like, I mean, like, God created humans to be smart so we can make medicine. So shouldn't we use it? Like, I don't know.

Are you still Catholic?

Uh, I don't know. I've been in so many, like, different, like, religion. I've studied so many different religions and cults and stuff. And it's like, I think my ultimate conclusion is I'm too stupid to know what the real answer is. Like, uh, the analogy I like to think about a lot is, like, say you have, uh, like, the internet, right? Like, that's this crazy complex thing that an ant is never going to be able to understand.

So you've fallen out of Christianity?

I wouldn't say I've fallen out. Uh, I, I think I just don't like saying, like, I'm 100% sure that this is, like, correct, because, I don't know, like, what if something else ends up being, you know, like, uh, like someone that's, like, Hindu or some other religion is also 100% that they're correct too, you know? And so I, I think if I believe this, because that's how I was raised, is that a real reason for believing, you know? And when I was looking back at myself, it's like, I was only believing because that's what I was taught, you know?

It's the biggest investigation of all time.

Yeah. But I don't know. I'm, I mean, I'm not against any religion, I guess. I think, I think they're all probably just equally awesome, I guess. Um, but I don't think there is any way for me to know. You know, it's kind of like the ant analogy. It's like, hopefully, whenever God is up there, can send me enough, like, I don't, I don't think I'll be able to. I think it's, like, too complex for my, like, brain to understand. I don't know. I don't think I'll ever know the answers. Maybe when we die, we'll find out, I guess.

When did you start, when did you start thinking that? When did you start kind of falling away? I mean, you can't really say you're a Christian if you don't believe in Christ and you're open to all these other religions.

So, I guess.

Or philosophies or whatever you want to call it.

So my parents were raised super Catholic. Like, my dad was, like, an ultra boy and stuff. Like, uh, my grandparents on both sides are super, super hardcore Catholic. And then my dad started just kind of being, like, uh, I don't know, like, like, I guess we were just taught, like, like, this is what is true because I said so, you know? Um, like, this is what the Bible says, and if you question it, you're going to hell, type of thing, you know?

Good values.

Yeah, yeah. And I think even a lot of Catholics would say that about the Bible too, you know? Like, you can't take everything, like, literally. Like, it says God created the world in seven days, but maybe the seven days are metaphors for, like, seven time periods that God created the world, you know? Um, with, like, the Big Bang, because they're like, okay, the Big Bang didn't happen in seven days. So, like, maybe that was, like, the seven days or seven different, like, segments of, like, the way he created the universe, you know? Um, so that's kind of what I was taught is, like, kind of take it as, like, a metaphor, but it might not be, like, 100, like, word for word 100% true, you know?

I don't know if it contradicts itself.

Well, not contradicts, but they're, like, different, what's it called? Like, uh, there's different.

Perspectives.

Perspectives, yeah. And so, um, which if you do have, like, I actually heard that's the reason that makes the Bible more trustworthy, you know? Because people are like, well, how do, like, Luke and Matthew, how do they have, like, how, like, they're, they're saying two different things happened, you know? And it's like, well, you have to think this happened, like, they wrote the Bible, like, years and years after they witnessed this, you know? And if you have four people witness an event, they're going to have different, like, memories of it, you know? So it's actually more proof that the Bible's real, because if it was made up, then you would expect it to all be the same, you know?

Do you know how many times the Bible cross-references itself?

Uh, how many times?

62, over 62,000 times.

Whoa.

See that thing right there?

Uh.

The rainbow-looking arches?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's all the time in every book, and then I think every chapter in each book, and those arcs all represent a cross-reference.

Whoa. That's sick.

No other book in the world does that.

Whoa.

Pretty wild, huh?

I learned some storytelling techniques from the Bible.

But, uh, so how did you get out of the Yellow Deli 12 Tribes thing?

They, uh, they found us out that we were YouTubers, I guess.

Oh, they found out?

Yeah. I don't know how.

How they're over?

They, they never found out our last names. Uh, we just, I just told them my name was Ben. I think I told them I was a Slackliner, so I think they looked, but it's weird because they don't use the internet or anything. But I think there's, like, one guy at the top, probably the authority that you were talking about, that, uh, I think they have to use the internet because they're a restaurant and they have to. So I think he, like, the top guy, from what I heard, is all used the internet. So he probably looked up, like.

Orchestrators.

Ben Slackline, yeah. Because we were pushing things kind of far. Like, like, like, we had, like, this girl died because she had a gay thought one time, you know? And that, like, and we were asking them some stuff about, like, their thoughts on Black people and stuff. And, um, I don't know. I guess we were being suspicious. And.

Yeah.

But we lasted three weeks, and we got a lot of good information out. So it was kind of perfect timing. We got kicked out.

How'd they kick you out?

Um, they just said, hey, we, I think we were wearing the glasses. They look kind of like the ones you're wearing right now. And the guy's like, can I see these? And then he pulls out the SD card, and he's like, what's this? And he's just holding the SD card in their face. We're like, oh, man. Like, we're like, we're sorry. And then we're like, we'll leave, I guess. Um, you caught us.

That was it?

Yeah, it was, like, the worst. Yeah, it was probably, like, the most awkward thing ever. It was, like, we, like, did the walk of shame out, and they had to, like, walk us out. And because, like, we kind of became friends with these guys. Like, because my whole thing was, like, none of these guys were, like, bad people. They were just brainwashed, you know? Um, like, they genuinely thought that, like, God hates Black people. And by them also hating Black people, they're doing the morally good thing, you know? Because in their eyes, that's the morally good thing to do.

So what, I mean, what happens if somebody does have a baby there?

So the guys we were talking, there's a lot of baby deaths because.

Okay. No medicine.

They're all at home, and they're all without pain medicine. And yeah, they said that God wants women to feel the pain of childbirth, I guess. Um, I think that's, like, a holy thing, I guess. And yeah, I mean, we were talking to a lot of people there. I mean, there's only, like, 30 people there. And it was surprising how many people had kids that died because they were, like, I mean, they should have told us, like, yeah, if we would have had medicine, we could have saved our kid, but that wasn't God's plan. God wanted the baby to die.

Wow.

Yeah. I, I think that's, like, a direct quote from my video series. It was, if we would have had medicine, we could have just saved the baby. But yeah, it's not what His plan is.

Wow.

It's just, it was so sad, but.

Did you learn how, like, how, because these restaurants are all over. I think they had a map in there, and I was like, you guys got restaurants in, like, I remember one in Costa Rica, and then all over the country.

Yeah. Um, I think there's some in Australia. There's some in, I'm not sure if there's any in Europe, but a lot of them in the United States, because yeah, it's originally from Tennessee, but there's, uh, the one in California. And we're like, yeah, it's close enough to our house. We'll, we'll just go to that one. And then, uh, once we got kicked out of that, we were actually like, let's go back because they don't use the internet. So then we went back to, uh, one in Colorado, which was, apparently, there's this really, uh, famous, like, fire that, uh, it was, like, the biggest fire ever in Denver. It like, destroyed, like, the whole city or whatever. And it was started by the Yellow Deli is what people think.

Interesting.

And we lived there for a little bit, and then they caught on to us there. So then we got kicked out again. But yeah.

Right on, man. Let's talk about Provo, because it sounds like a big one.

Yeah.

So you got in, you, you got an e just a random email because you read, how do you read all your emails?

Well, this was before I blew up, I guess. So I, I, I, I only had, like, a little bit amount of emails compared to, uh, what I have now.

So you got a random email.

But I, I, I did read every single email that I got when I first put that feeler out. Yeah.

About a, like, a troubled teen facility in Provo, Utah?

Yeah. And the guy's describing it. He's like, they put kids in solitary confinement. They do, like, they basically will beat you up and, like, for doing nothing. Like, if you just don't do everything they say, you can't talk to anyone. Like, they take away your childhood. And the part that, like, really sold me was he was like, when I was there, I was hoping to go to jail because that would have been way better. And I was like, whoa. So this place is, like, because you always think of jail as being, like, the worst place ever. So, like, this place being worse than jail and, like, a kid's going there just for, like, smoking weed one time or something, like, that's insane, you know?

So you're going after the stuff that's just so outlandish that it's unbelievable.

Yeah, yeah. And I always say that too in my videos. Like, if I have an idea to, like, take down a corporation or something, and so I, I, every, this is how I pitch my ideas. I'm like, okay, so I'll tell, like, four or five of my friends, and if they're like, that sounds like a really good idea. Like, you should do that. Then I know it's a bad idea because it's believable. Um, because then if I do it, if I tell you I'm going to do this, and you're like, oh, yeah, you could do it, and I do it, then you're not shocked, you're not surprised. But I know it's a good idea when I tell my friends, and they're like, oh, no, you can't do that. That's, that's bad. Like, you can't, that's horrible.

Where'd you hear that? Because that's a, that's a saying.

Really? Uh, no, just from experience.

Some of the best ideas are making bad or going after bad ideas and making them work.

Really? Just from experience. Because I would, like, tell people ideas, and they're like, okay. And then, I don't know, because it's just believable. Like, if you already believe that I can do it, then why are you watching? Like, you're, you know, I can pull it off. You want to watch because you don't know how it's going to work out. You know, that's, that's science. Like, uh, I was a mechanical engineer. So in science, you don't test something if you already know the answer. You test something that you don't know what the answer is, you know? Because that's why you have to test it. So if I pitch an idea, my friends are like, oh, how is that going to turn out? Like, that might go really bad, you know?

So what, I mean, what did he say that made you think it was so crazy?

Just, like, they'll put you in solitary confinement for, like, a month. Um, they'll beat you up randomly because the workers are mad. Um, you can't talk to anyone. Like, it just doesn't seem real. Like, oh, you have to go to school for, like, three years of your life, and the whole time you can't talk to anyone. Like, it sounds terrible.

How long was this kid in there?

Uh, usually they're in there for, like, two to three. I think he was in there for, like, three years. Because it's like your high school. Like, it's, uh, they advertise themselves as a high school so you can graduate with a diploma. But apparently they're faking the diplomas. So then you're like, oh, yeah, I got a diploma. Let's go apply to a college now. And then the college is like, that isn't a real diploma. That's like a fake certificate.

Is this place still in operation?

Uh, it closed down one day after we posted our video. But, um, yeah, that's what I was thinking too. I was like, there's no, like, maybe back in, like, like, 50 years ago, this could exist. But today, like, this would have a place we could shut down if this existed today. And then we went there, and it's still just as bad as he's describing.

I mean, even how you got in there sounds like some pretty extravagant tradecraft.

Yeah. We, we just called him and said, like, hey, take my son. And they're like, okay. And didn't ask for any paperwork. Well, okay, we probably had to, like, sign, like, one thing, but they didn't ask how old I am. They didn't ask for anything. I never had to show my ID. The dad never had to show his ID. We never had to show a birth certificate. No, we didn't verify anything. They just said, sign this. Okay, you're in. I'm like, okay.

And you, but you had somebody on the inside too.

Yeah. I, uh, so.

So walk me through the whole process from, from idea of we're doing this to your inside.

So I wanted to apply as a teacher. And then I was like, shoot, they're going to background check me and find out I'm a, I'm a YouTuber. And they're going to be like, why is this YouTuber who, like, takes down companies going to want to work for us? Because they were already, like, pretty bad in the media. Paris Hilton went to this school. And so she's been, like, all over the media, like, shut down Provo Canyon and stuff. She's been trying to work with people to shut them down. So they're already skeptical that people are, like, trying to shut them down.

And you were in there too.

Yeah, at the very end, I was able to get in. Um, and yeah, we just, we, we did the same thing. We told him that I did, so we told him I had, like, a gay thought because we saw on the website that you could be in there for, uh, like, homosexuality or whatever. So we were like, out of all the things you get sent there for, I thought that was, like, the least evil thing, you know? Because we're like, that way if they, like, punish me harsh, then we can be like, oh, I didn't even really do anything bad. And, uh, also in Utah, which is where the school's at, uh, there's, like, all these, like, weird, like, uh, like, uh, conversion camp bans and stuff.

Is there a lot of these?

Um, yeah, I think they're kind of all over. Uh, um, they have a bunch of, so the one owner has, like, four or five companies. So now that this one's shut down, I actually snuck back in last week. We went back there and because I was just curious, like, because it's shut down. And I was like, is it just an abandoned building or are there still people there? And we went back and there was a bunch of people, like, unloading books. And they said it was going to a sister company, I guess. So they don't really ever shut down. They kind of just move locations and rebrand.

So that's the sad thing is, like, these people are, like, billionaires. Like, they know how to, like, get around stuff like this.

So I mean, what you got, so you meet this guy who wants to be a YouTuber. He goes in as an employee, as a teacher.

Yeah. And also the funny part is, is he's a, his criminal history is so bad. Like, he's not allowed to work with kids. Um, he's like a changed man now. Like, he used to do, like, heroin and meth and stuff and fentanyl and, uh, and then, like, he was addicted, you know, and he needs the heroin. So he would, like, steal cars and stuff. And he, he has, like, grand theft auto, and he's been to jail for that and stuff. And, and so he's not allowed to work with kids. And he has literally the worst criminal history of anyone I've ever seen in my entire life. And, but now he's sober.

So how long was he there before you infiltrated?

Uh, about a month. It was like three and a half weeks.

How long were you in there?

Only two days because what we did is, so it's, uh, a thousand dollars a day to be there. And when I would film the video, I only had $2,000 in my bank account. So I was like, shoot, I can only be there for two days. But to make it worse, they needed a full month down payment before letting me in. So I needed, I think they said they needed 50, or it was like a month and a half of payment or something. They needed $50,000 for me to go in, uh, before they would let me go in. I had $2,000 in my bank account. And so I was like, and basically my entire YouTube career has been me getting shadow banned.

How'd you escape?

Uh, I just climbed a fence. There was like, if there's like 15.

Easy?

Well, there was a basketball hoop next to it. So I climbed the basketball hoop and then I just jumped the fence. It was like a three, it was like a three-foot gap from like the basketball hoop and the fence. So I was just able to jump over. And then, I just did a parkour roll and it was soft grass, so it was fine.

So what happened after that?

And then, I don't know, they like chased me.

Did they know you escaped?

Yeah, they like chased me for like a couple miles and then I like got away. And then Sheldon picked me up. I, I think I like went to like some, like fast food restaurant and I was like, oh, out of breath. I, I think I threw up like three or four times because I don't, it was like 20 degrees outside. I'm just in like a, uh, I, I actually think I had a sweatshirt on, but I have like an asthma thing where I can't like exercise in cold weather. So I just start like throwing up all over the restaurant. And then I'm like out of breath. I'm like, hey, like I'm doing a scavenger hunt.

Wow.

But.

So I mean, what did you, what did you uncover?

Um.

When your, your buddy was there in there for a month, what kind of stuff was he witnessing inside this place?

One of the worst ones was the solitary confinement. So in Utah, every state's different, but in Utah, like I think solitary confinement is allowed for like murderers and stuff, but only for like a couple hours a day, you know? Like it can't go on like extended. And for kids, like no solitary confinement at all. Like that's like super illegal. Uh, because like, and that makes sense. Like there's scientists have done studies on solitary confinement, like literally damages your brain. And so for kids going through solitary confinement, like that's when your brain's developing. Like you don't want to, that's why like we can't smoke or drink alcohol when we're kids because it's going to ruin our brain, you know?

What was solitary confinement like for him?

So I guess it's not, it's not what you think of normal solitary confinement. It's not like, okay, I'm in a prison cell all by myself, you know, and I can't do anything. Actually, I would argue solitary, that type of solitary confinement would be better. Uh, because at least you could do like push-ups, you could work out and stuff. This was, I know you told me not to sit up because of the microphone, but you have to sit like this in a school desk. There's like probably 10 kids all in a room and you have to just sit there and just look forward. And, uh, if you like look at like another kid, if you like turn your head to look, the teacher will, hey, look forward.

Are they beaten on the kids?

So there's stories of it. We didn't witness that. Um, but yeah, we didn't witness that there, but they do what's called restraints, I guess. And they were like bragging in the training, they were bragging about the restraints. So they would be like, yeah, like if you tell this kid to sit down and he doesn't sit down, like the protocol is we're going to like restrain him. And sometimes these restraints will last up to 45 minutes, you know? So they get down and they would like practice like how to restrain the kids and stuff. And, uh, they try and do it in a way that doesn't hurt the kids, I guess.

Shit.

Um, I think that's also led to the provocating getting shut down. No, sorry. That was a different school that got shut down. Uh, it was like a sister school owned by the same company, I think, where, uh, I think the kid like threw a brownie or something and then they went and like did a restrain on him, but they were like choking him and he ended up dying. Uh.

Dude.

And then he was, the only reason he was in there was because, uh, his parents died, I think. So they're like, oh, where should we send him? He wasn't even a bad kid. They just sent him there because like his parents, he was like a foster kid and they just killed him. Uh.

Holy shit.

You know, that's crazy.

Where did that happen?

I don't know. I'd have to look that up, but I remember that was a very famous story. When I started researching it, that was like a big story that kept coming up. Um.

Wow.

But yeah, that was really sad.

How many kids were in there when you got there?

I think 300.

300?

I think 150 boys, 150 girls, I think. Yeah.

Are you conversing with them? You talking with them?

No. I didn't talk to a single one.

Why not?

Because you're not allowed to.

So even outside of solitary confinement, there's no socialization?

Yeah, I don't think so. He'd be like, go to bed, no talking. And then we'd have to go to bed and like, I think some of the kids would like talk and then he'd come in like yell at them. And then, uh, yeah, I just didn't talk. Which was nice because I was like, I was kind of scared that they were going to tell I wasn't like 17 years old because that's like the oldest you're allowed to be at 17 in there. And I'm 30 years old. So I was like, it was kind of nice because then they couldn't like catch that I was 30 years old.

Shit.

Yeah, I just kind of just sat in silence the whole time. I guess there was a couple times where the teacher would talk to us and he'd be like, like, what are your goals for today? And he'd be like, I'm going to try to go to sleep without talking to anyone. This is what I think I said my goal was. Uh, they're like, I'm going to be a good kid today. I don't know. And that's like pretty much all I would say the whole day.

Are they teaching? What are they teaching?

So I never got to experience school. I escaped before school started because I was just in solitary confinement the whole time. But Sheldon, he was in school for a lot of it. And he said they would, have you heard of like what they call Riz Brainrot TikToks?

Mm-mm.

Uh, I haven't really heard of it either, but it's basically, so what the kids are watching nowadays is they would watch YouTube compilations of these like 15-second TikToks, which is, I don't even know how to describe it. It's definitely not educational. I guess the audience can look up Riz Brainrot and look it up for themselves, but how do you describe brainrot to someone who doesn't know what brainrot is? I guess you can, it's just, it's, it's like, uh, kind of self-describing.

That's what they're doing?

Yeah, I guess they're just playing that for kids and stuff. At least that's what Sheldon said. They were.

For how long?

The whole day. I guess just like eight hours. They just play it because, I mean, Sheldon got hired as a teacher and.

So they would take these kids in and sit them in front of brainrot TikTok shit for eight hours a day.

Yeah.

In solitary confinement.

Well, these aren't teachers. They don't know how to teach, I guess. I don't know. I guess the only thing I was told when I got there was the teacher pulls me aside and he's like, hey, like class is going to start tomorrow. And he's like, class is going to be a joke to you. Like it's a joke, but you have to do it, you know? And that's what the teacher told me. So yeah, it's kind of unbelievable, but, um, and then they, they give you a fake diploma at the end. They're like, you graduated, congratulations. You can't.

So there's no.

College or anything.

Like math, literature.

From my understanding, I don't think so.

Nothing. Holy shit.

And some of the sister companies, from what I heard, they'll have, uh, they'll, they would take exams. So you learn by taking the test. So instead of giving you the material to learn, they'll just give you the test and then you just learn what the answer is. So you'll be like, okay, like you, you, you will get it wrong. You'll be like, okay, number one was 14. And so like the answer to number one is 14. So you're not really reading the question. You're just memorizing what the answers are. And then that way, okay, when I take the test again, now I can get all the right answers, you know? Uh, so you're not really learning anything.

I mean, when you're like, when you're in there and your buddy's in there and you guys are, you know, turning this into, you know, a video, I mean, what's, what's, do you feel like any kind of responsibility to save these kids that are in there? I mean, this is messed up shit.

Yeah, it was so sad.

They're on their lives.

Yeah, it's, this is probably one of the hardest videos I ever filmed. The first reason is because, yeah, you're dealing with kids under 18. So it's like, I wanted so bad to be like, I pitched this to Sheldon as like a joke and instantly we were like, we can't do this, but we were going to be like getting all the kids together and be like, if we all escape, like we can all get away and I'll return you, like I'll send footage to the kids' parents and we'll show them what's really going on inside. And then we'll all escape and we'll all return the kids back to their parents and stuff. And, but then it's like, but then if I escape, now I'm some 30-year-old who just kidnapped all these 17-year-olds because they're, they, they have legal custody of these kids.

No, but I mean, you know, do you think about where you could get this material to? Who it could be reported to? I mean.

Yeah. Um, I mean, that was the goal. Yeah. To shut them down. I think I, after they got shut down, I made a video. I was like, we were just like, well, that was easy. Like we thought we were going to have to go on this like huge adventure to shut them down. Uh, because that's like kind of our brand is we don't really stop until there's like a satisfying ending. And the satisfying ending with this was like we just weren't going to stop until it got shut down and it just happened way faster than we expected.

Do you feel like you educated, uh, an audience about, you know, maybe some parents on what is actually going on? Or do you think these people's parents even give a shit?

I think it's 50/50. Um, like Paris Hilton's parents still are like, we're glad we sent Paris Hilton there. Like this was best for her, you know? Um, because I think, I think half the parents are able to see like, okay, this is messed up, you know? And the other half are like, by them saying that it's wrong, they would be admitting that they did something bad. And I think that's a hard pill for a lot of parents to swallow. Like we ruined three years of our kids' life because we couldn't be better parents.

That's pretty substantial.

I think a lot of parents, it's easier for parents to lie and just be like, like, lie to themselves and be like, this was a good place for my kid. Like my kid deserved to go here because the alternative is too hard for them to, like, it's too like big of a truth for them to understand, I guess.

I'm like a pretty good parkour athlete, I guess. So I like rock climb. So it was easy for me. I could see it being hard for the average person, um, but I think I'd probably do it. I think it also comes with like what happens after you escape, right? Like you're just some kid alone in 20-degree weather and you, because it was really, I guess if they escape in the summer, it's not bad. But when I did, it was 20 degrees. Like, like you have no money on you, no phone.

Yeah, I guess that makes sense. Well, let's move to ideal living. This sounds.

Oh yeah.

Really bad.

Yeah, it, it's kind of crazy. I saw the email and I was like, these people are out of their minds, you know? But.

So hold on. Before we go on, what is ideal living for the audience?

So ideal living is a company that makes air purifiers and water purifiers. And they're just some, they, I think they do a lot of charity and stuff. So they're seen as like a good company. Uh, when the wildfires happened in California, they were doing a bunch of air purifiers to help people breathe better. And, um, yeah, they're just seen as like this, like heartwarming company that just helps the community out. And, uh, I got an email saying that they're actually, the only reason this company exists is to fund the world's biggest human trafficking ring.

People on the inside of the company?

Yeah. Well, they don't work there anymore. Apparently they like whistle blew to the head guy and they, uh, got fired for doing that. But, um, yeah, basically they just seem like crazy people. And at first I was like, okay. But then everything they said, they could back up with evidence. So I was like, okay, I'll document their side and then I'll document ideal living side, you know, I'll just share both sides of the story. And I shared their side and then I tried to get ideal living side and they were like, yeah, we're going to call the cops on you if you, uh, keep asking us about this.

How many views?

Uh, so the two videos have, I think, like 37 million views or something on them combined.

37 million views?

Yeah, it's the, it's by far the biggest viewed thing I've ever done, but no one's reacting to it online. No one's, like no news stations are picking. It's weird how like it's the least talked about thing I've done, even though everyone's like seeing it. It's so weird. Uh, so I don't know if people are like scared to talk about it or, um.

So they're suing you? Are they suing you?

Basically they sent me a very scary like email basically being like, you got everything wrong. Like here's these seven bullet points of what you got wrong. And if you don't share our side, then we're going to use like applicable remedies or something. Like lawyer speak, I guess. Um, basically like share our side or we'll sue you is like the dumbed down version, I guess. Um, so I shared their side, uh, which was, we're right because we said so. Um, but yeah, maybe more will come out now that I just, I just posted that video.

So what did, hold on. So what did you do? Did you infiltrate the company?

Uh, we were, we, we have some footage of the inside that we haven't released yet, uh, of not the company, but the, like the JKP group, which is the like religion, I guess. Basically they believe that he's like Jesus, I guess. So he's in a human body, but he is God is what they believe. So this guy just.

You have footage of this?

Uh, yeah, we have footage and they're like, well, he died, I guess, a couple years ago because he was like 90 years old, but they have a cardboard cutout of him that they like worship. They're like feeding him cake and stuff and, um.

The employees?

Yeah. Yeah. So the employees of this company all are a part of this like organization, I guess. And they're like, they're like the high-up people. Like they all like, they run the company, but they also run the organizations. They run both of them, I guess. And I guess from my understanding, the way that.

So you're saying that allegedly.

Uh-huh.

This company exists to fund human trafficking.

That's what all the interview, all the people I've interviewed that, I mean, it's verified that they used to work at this company. That's what they're all saying is that, yeah.

What's the sample size? How many people?

Uh, right now there's like six or seven, but it's a small cut. There's only like 30 people that work at the company. So, uh, it's, I guess compared to the people that work there, it's a lot.

So six or seven people out of a 30 people company, 30 person company.

I'm not.

Have all reported the same kind of shit going on?

Yeah, I'm not 100% sure. I think it's around like 30 people probably, but, uh, yeah, there's been about six or seven past employees have come out.

And so where did you go? Where, how did you, how do you come in?

They just emailed me. I just shared their story.

So you just, so you just interviewed them and shared their story.

Yeah, because the claim was, is that this was supposed to be like a big news story and stuff. And then, I mean, the guy is like a billionaire at the top and he's like pretty powerful, I guess. So what they were telling me is that because he has power, he's able to kill the story every time a big news station is going to like air it. So they were like, no news station can air this story. Like every time, like we get so close and then every single time they always just don't air the story, you know? And we can't find out why.

Breaking the story.

Yeah, because that was the stunt, you know? Um.

So what, how did you get on the inside then? Where did the footage come from?

Uh, we would just, they have a temple. It's like an ashram. So.

At the company?

No, it's the, the organization is called JKP. It stands for Jagur Krupalu Parishat. So the guy's that, he's Indian. So it's an Indian name like Krupalu. Um, and then Jagur means like God walking on earth. So, um, that's like what the, it's like the name of their religion. Uh, they were trying to get like actual religious status from what I was reading, but, uh, because there was like so many Miracle Blades everywhere, when the IRS came, they were like, this isn't a religion, this is a company. So they didn't really get tax exempt like they wanted to.

Hold on. So how did you get in there?

We just walked in.

Why would they talk to you?

I don't know. We said, hey, we're interested in your religion.

You just walked up to their temple.

Yeah.

Who supposedly, according to the people that you've interviewed, is the biggest child trafficking ring.

Well, I think most of the people there don't think it's bad. So they just.

What do you mean they don't think it's bad?

Yeah, they just think it's a religion. They actually think he's a God walking on earth. So they actually think that this guy was a God. Um.

Why do they think that?

Because that's how they were raised. Because this has been going on for, I think, 80 years or something. Uh, maybe like 70, 80 years. And so, uh, they just grew up like, kind of like I was saying earlier, like, uh, I think a lot of people are just grown up to be like, hey, this is the truth and don't question it or else it's bad, you know? And so that's probably what happened with a lot of these people. They just grew up, hey, this guy is our God, you know? Like Krupalu, he is God in human form. So, and they were told not to question it because questioning it is evil, you know?

What?

Yeah, it's, it's huge. Yeah. So.

Hold on. How does a company with 30 people that you're saying coincides with a religion have a hundred million people?

Yeah, well, the company was just to fund it. So they're pumping, uh, I mean, the guy's a billionaire. So, um, just from this company. So this company makes them a lot of money and then that money goes to the organization so they can like build ashrams and they have these huge giant temples that are like super beautiful and, uh, it like attracts people. So I'd say most people that are part of it probably don't know what's going on, you know? Um, but yeah, I mean, the company, the 30 people at the company, their main focus with the company is to make these air purifiers and water purifiers, but they all just so happened, like, and it's not all of them too.

What do you think?

I think they've shown me a lot of evidence for that to be true. And unless Ideal Living shows me evidence for it not to be true, I think it's.

What evidence are you seeing that makes you believe it's true?

Um, so Peter is the CEO of Ideal Living and he is, uh, yeah, CEO of Ideal Living, but he's also the treasurer of JKP. So he handles all the money of JKP. Um, I mean, they have billions of, like, I guess they have this trust. They showed me this trust in India where they put like billions of dollars and it's, they claim it's to do like tax fraud and stuff, but they also claim it's to like give them all the money. I, I, it's hard for me to recount because it's so like convoluted.

I don't know. Apparently they sue everyone that talks bad about them. And I've probably made the biggest hit piece on them they've ever seen, but they haven't sued me. So I don't, I don't know if they, like there's like companies are starting to learn now that like by suing me, it's just like helping me. Uh, because, uh, like every time I get sued, it's just like great for me, you know? Like I just get more public support and it just ends up like going to discovery or whatever. And then now they have to produce a bunch of documents. Like that would be horrible for them if they had to do that, I'm assuming. So.

How many times have you been sued?

Um, I get threatened to be, I get served papers probably every single video I've like ever done since like day one, um, with Scientology. They tried suing me for like a million dollars, but I always find a way out of it, you know? I always find like a creative way that no one would ever see coming. Um, like I usually just find out like, because here's my, my thought process. So bad companies exist for a reason, right? Because if they were just bad and nothing else with no loopholes, then why would they exist?

Give me an example.

So Scientology, uh, is when I was really dissecting it, my conclusion was this is a business hiding behind a religion. So they're selling you these courses and stuff that are completely fake. Like the first course I did was you have to be in a sauna for anywhere from four to eight hours a day to sweat out your, your bad memories and your toxins, you know? Like if something bad, traumatic happened to me, you can actually sweat that out, which, uh, I think Harvard did a study.

Holy shit. Do you have an attorney?

No.

You're just doing all this by yourself?

That's why I did it. Because I, I, I was homeless living in my car when I did this video. I didn't have money for lawyers. So like I got to find some other way out of this, I guess.

Oh my gosh.

But yeah, and the formula works. Like literally every single bad company has some type of loophole that I can just also use against them. It's happened to every single video. Uh, but yeah.

So you've been sued for just about every video you've done.

Yeah. The only one was the 12 Tribes. They, they believe that, uh, God will punish me, not the law. They don't believe in the law, like the human law, you know? So they think laws are stupid. They're like, God will punish you. So they're the only ones that didn't sue me.

Wow. And nothing, nothing has stuck so far.

Um, just, uh, the Brixton Mini Figs one, that one we're still dealing with, but, um, yeah, I think I'm going to win. Uh, I mean, we did an anti-slap suit, which is basically, uh, so a slap suit is when they silence for what I'm saying. So I made a documentary on them and they're suing me for that, for like exposing them for doing a bad thing. So anti-slap is then anti doing that. And then if that gets approved, which I think by the end of the month, we'll find out if it's approved or not, then that's going to be exciting to see.

And you're just filing all this stuff yourself?

No, I have lawyers now.

Oh, okay.

But, uh, I finally did get a lawyer after the Brixton Mini Figs one. The whole, I had like the whole internet was like kind of hating on the fact that I was just doing everything myself because I thought it was cool to do everything myself, you know? I was like, I don't want to get lawyers involved. I wanted to do it from the perspective of like just some kids sitting at home. Like I like my stuff to feel like it's like a high school project just on steroids, you know? Like I'm going up against like a human trafficking ring or I'm going to take down this corporation. Like, but like kind of the like fantasy of like a high school project taking on such a big project like that.

You've spent a quarter of a million dollars?

Yeah.

Okay. What is this?

Well, I had to get two criminal defense lawyers for, uh, because I made a GoFundMe and I tried serving court papers. Those are two separate charges. Oh, and then, uh, they said that I tried to burn the building down in Provo, which obviously I didn't do. So I had three criminal cases that I had to have lawyers fight. And then, uh, just the civil lawyer, the civil lawyer is like the expensive one. They're suing me for RICO charges. So I think that's kind of expensive, I guess. Uh, just because we had like six days of mediation and that just each day, I mean, the lawyers, it's like almost a thousand dollars an hour.

Sheesh.

Yeah. So it is kind of funny. Like the video costs this much and the lawyers cost this much.

Damn, man. What do you got coming up?

Um.

What are you excited about?

So, um, we're trying to take over the whole Brixton Mini Figs Corporation. Basically, I, I just, something I quickly realized after these videos came out is no one wants to shop at Brixton Mini Figs anymore.

What is it?

Uh, Brixton Mini Figs. It's a Lego store. So basically this corporation stole.

Oh, I've been hearing about this.

Yeah.

This is.

Okay. So there was the world's largest Lego set owned by this family and they put it in a Brixton Mini Figs to sell. Basically, Brixton Mini Figs is like GameStop, but for Legos. So they're not affiliated with Lego. They just resell people's Lego sets. So this guy had a collection and then he was like, okay, can you sell this for me? And they keep a percentage and then, but he gets to keep the majority of the sales and they keep a percentage for like a thank you for helping sell it. And, uh, he shows up to the store one day and.

Consignment shop.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Consignment. And then he shows up and there's new owners there and he's like, hey, they're like, you guys still selling my stuff? Like, how's it going? Like kind of my monthly check. And they're like, oh, yeah, like we took over the store. The old store owner doesn't work here anymore. Um, and these Legos are ours. So if you ask any more questions, we're going to call the cops on you. Like you're trespassed from the store. And he's like, what? He's like confused. He's like, okay. And so, uh, uh, basically he was like, he like calls him back.

Like what?

Um, I don't know. So one thing is the police were saying it was civil instead of criminal, uh, which means the police can't do anything. You have to sue them. So I saw, I was reading through, this happened in Oregon. So I was reading through the Oregon state laws of like what civil crimes are and criminal crimes. And one thing I saw that was a criminal crime was stealing from a lottery. So I made a state-approved lottery. We got approved by the state and we auctioned off one of, uh, his Lego sets. That was like, I think it was a thousand dollar set, which turns into the felony amount of like theft.

Damn, dude.

Like if they all change, I don't think they can stop them all. But it's kind of like a science experiment. Like we don't really know what's going to happen. We're just kind of doing it and documenting the results, I guess.

That's a hell of a wave you've created.

Yeah, but it's rated like a half a billion dollar corporation. Uh, so I might just be the owner of like a half a billion dollar corporation, which is crazy. I was just like some stupid broke YouTuber before this, you know? And I might own this. I don't think I'd make any money because I'm taking 0%, but I would, I would be taking 0% of half a billion corporation that I would own. But I feel like that's like a big responsibility, I guess. But, um, yeah, it might happen. But it's funny. Like it's just like a, like just something like me and my friends were joking about and now it might actually happen, I guess.

Dude, that's crazy.

Yeah, it's insane. So that's, that's what's next for me, I guess. Um, but yeah, I would be the first CEO that takes 0%.

God bless you.

Of my company. I, I, I own a company and take 0% stake, I guess.

Man, that's powerful, dude.

As long as I can make my YouTube videos, I'm happy, I guess.

You like doing this?

Yeah. Um, yeah, it's really fun. I don't know. I don't really think I do anything for video. I just do it because it's fun. And then kind of like a side effect of what I do is I get a cool video out of it. I've always just done crazy things my whole life, I guess. And then like it's kind of cool to share the crazy things I do with the world now. So it's fun.

Does it feel good helping people like that?

Yeah. Yeah, it's fun. I don't know. Yeah, ultimately I just like doing things that are fun and like I just like going on adventures and stuff. But I think helping people is kind of the ultimate adventure, you know, because there's like a problem they can't solve and I'm like, oh, I'll be the one to solve your problem, you know? And it's just like fun. Um, and then it's, it is like a cool like reward because then it's like, oh, if I help them, then they're happy and you feel like, I don't know, like when other people are happy, I'm happy, you know?

Makes you feel good.

Yeah. I'm a very like empathetic person. Like I feel like my mood is kind of like, like determined by how like other people's mood is. So if other people are sad, then I'm like really sad. But if other people are happy, then I'm really happy. So.

Right on, man.

That's good to make people happy, I think.

Well, Ben, this was awesome.

Oh, yeah.

Thanks for coming, man.

Yeah, thanks for having me. This is an awesome podcast.

Yeah, it's my pleasure. Um, yeah, I'd love to have you again sometime.

Yeah, I'm down.

Give you some time, get some more stuff and.

Well, I definitely have a lot of crazy things planned. I think I have 10 videos already filmed that I just haven't edited yet. So I definitely have some crazy stuff that no one knows about in the future. I can probably tell you off camera, but I can't tell you yet. Some of it's like very illegal probably. And we're waiting for statutory limitations on some of it, but some of them end very, very soon. So, and then it's like, oh, you can't get us any more statutory limitations is up. So.

You're smart, dude. Cheers, man. Thanks again.

Yeah. Oh, thanks.

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