Transcript of S1E4: The You You Are

This episode of the Severance podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is brought to you by Confluence by Atlassian, the connected workspace where teams can create, organize, and deliver work like never before. Set knowledge free with Confluence. I'm Ben Stiller. I'm Adam Scott. And this is the Severance podcast with Ben and Adam, where we break down every episode of Severance.

Today, we're recapping Season 1 episode 4, The You, You, Are, written by Kerry Drake and directed by Efa McCardle. Now, you wanted to talk about how you found Efa and how you guys... Because the episode really feels like a continuation, visually, of what you did with the first few episodes, of course, with some different visual twists. Efa is incredible.

Yeah, she is Irish, and Katie Pruitt, who I've worked with for a long time, who is one of the producers on the show and ADed and has done a lot on the show, showed me some of her work. She had done a bunch of music videos and commercials and this little independent called Kissing Candice. I just thought her visual style was pretty incredible. When we were trying to figure out how to make the show, I knew I was going to direct six of the episodes, and then the other three, we were going to get one or two with her directors. When I saw Efa's work, I thought, Oh, she really has this just amazing eye. Tonally, I felt like she could get what the show was about. And we had a really great talk on the phone, and she came over. And we decided to have her do the middle three episodes. So I never met her before this process, and we jumped in. And I think she did just really, really beautiful work, especially that you see... We were shooting everything at the same time, in terms of the first three episodes, we were creating this thing on the fly, even though we'd prepped for a long time, we were figuring out what felt right and what didn't feel right.

And she was jumping in at the same time. So it wasn't like she looked at the first three episodes and started on her episodes. We just were sharing all the illustrations and references and talking about movies and images and all working together, Jessica, Lee, Gagne, our cinema photographer was shooting with her also. So it was like we were all jumping in together, really.

I do remember season one shooting. We sometimes would switch back and forth between you and Efa in the same day if we happened to have stuff that needed to be shot out. We would go back and forth day to day, but also sometimes in the same day.

Yeah, and that wasn't ideal for anybody, but as the shoot schedule went along and time started to go by and run out, we would try to do that sometimes and try to join forces with our crew and be able to take advantage of shooting at the same location. But that's tough. I'm sure that was tough for you as an actor to have to jump between episodes sometimes.

Well, it's challenging, but I thought it was certainly... Sometimes jumping between Innie and Outie in the same day and then back again was challenging, but it just forces you into a corner to figure stuff out, just get it done. But I loved working with Efa, too. She was really, really inventive, and there were some shots in this episode that really blew me away, having not seen it in a while. Well, let's take a quick break, and then when we come back, we'll jump into episode four. At Lumen, things are not always what they seem. Mark, Dylan, Haley, and Irving in MDR make a great team. But what else lies beyond the four white walls of their department. There seem to be more questions than answers as the secrets of Lumen are slowly revealed.

There's definitely a lot more going on than you see. It's a little bit creepy.

I agree. There are more Qs than As in this place.

Yeah, for sure.

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For the past three seasons of gone south, we've covered one story per season. We tried to figure out who killed Margaret Coon.

She told me, I'm going to kill you. I said, Well, do it, bitch.

Go ahead and do it. We delved into the violent world of the Dixie Mafia.

I'm an outlaw, and I was a thief, but I'm far from being the psychotic nutcase that I've been made out to be.

And we tracked a serial killer in Laredo, Texas. Just turn around. Please.

Turn around.

Now, Gone South is back for a fourth season, but this time, we're doing things a little differently. So in Gone South Season 4, we'll be bringing you news stories every week with no end in sight. I'm Jed Lepinsky. Welcome back to Gone South, an Odyssey Original podcast. Listen and follow now on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts for new episodes every week.

Okay, so episode 4 picks up with Heli in the break room, just where we left her in episode three, reading the compunction statement, which is such a luminey title for what she's reading. It's so great. It's so Dan. It's fantastic.

There's just so much great Dan stuff in this episode in terms of just lumen verbiage and scripture. There's a lot of scripture in this one. There really is.

This is the episode, and I forgot it was, where the first big Hely and Mark really butt heads over fundamental lumine principles, and it's really fun to see that burst out into the open. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so she's reading the compunction statement, and Milchick allows her to take a break for the day, and she goes into the elevator But for the innie, and we get to experience this along with Heli, and it's fascinating to see. Breaking for the day means pausing for two minutes to walk to the elevator, and then the elevator closes, opens right back up, and she's back at work. That's what finishing a day at work and starting the next day at work is like for an innie.

Which always just rattles my mind and makes me tense when I think of that, that for these innies, they're just leaving and coming right back.

And always be awake. Yeah. I wonder what that would be like to have the rest physically happening inside your body, but your mind doesn't get a break.

But also, doesn't that just make you think about how weird sleep is?

Yeah, sleep is super weird.

Whenever it gets time to sleep, for me, I'm always so happy to go to sleep. I don't know why, but it's just that thing, I guess because I'm tired. But what is that, that we have that rest and that break from consciousness. Then I always look forward to my dreams.

Yeah, I had the same feeling last night. In fact, I was exhausted and so happy to just lie down. And I chose last night to watch Friends as I went to sleep. It was so pleasant. I think as I get older, I get more and more excited about sleep, and then more excited about talking about how much sleep I got the next day.

I think that's exactly right. I just proved that I'm old.

Yeah, I think we both just did. I love going to sleep. Sleep is wonderful.

People can play this podcast to help them fall asleep. That's right.

As they're doing right now.

Can I tell you something in the break room, the other thing that I just really connect with are Milchick's headphones. Kat Miller, our PropGenius person, found these old '70s headphones that I used to have, these Senheiser yellow foam headphones that just took me back to 1975, and that's what Milchick wears.

So were those literally the ones you had as a kid?

No, no, no. But the same model and the same type. That's what I mean. You know when you see, and when you see something, yeah, the same type. And when you see something like that you haven't seen from your childhood, it just triggers so much stuff. And I was like, yes, those are the ones. And they look just... Tramell looks so cool in that scene.

I was just going to say he looks so cool with them on. I think Tramell just looks cool. You put anything on his face or he just looks awesome in everything.

Yeah, he does. And Brit, let's just comment on what an incredible performance in that scene. For sure. This is like we're just seeing the underside of what the reality of being an any is. Yeah.

One thing I want to say, too, about how incredible Brit is in this scene and why it's such a painful scene to watch, or one of the many reasons it is, is because as an audience, so far, we've experienced Heli as this superhero figure. She is the voice of reason and justice down here just in the first few episodes, and we see them break her here.

It's disconcerting because you see this is someone who is very strong and really rebelling against this, and you're with her on that, and then all of a sudden you see, Oh, this is something that's going to be very, very hard for her to survive or fight against. But it also makes you, I think, in a way, just realize how serious this whole thing is and the underbelly of what's going on here. Yeah.

After the break room, we're back at MDR, and then Bert just walks in the room, Christopher Walkin. We have this hilarious moment of Dylan just grabbing a stapler and wielding it as a weapon.

I think we might have slipped in a little gun sound effect there when he opens up the stapler. It's like a... Really? Yeah. Just a classic Dylan, How in the wet fuck did you get in there? Yeah.

I was going to comment on the use of How in the wet fuck, It's just so Dylan and very Danish.

And all of a sudden, we got Christopher Walkin in MDR there, and he's trying to connect with the group. To me, anytime I'm just such a Chris Walkin fan. Oh, my God. The fact that he's in the show, anytime he shows up, to me, it's just so much fun. And I think Chris really enjoyed the dialog, Bert's dialog, in his turn of phrase. And I think as an actor, that thing just from the little I've worked with him and seeing his process, that the words are really what does it for him and how he grasps onto those and finds ways to bring them alive that I think turn him on. That's me speaking for Chris Walkins, his process, but just watching how he works. It's just so, as we know, iconic.

Yeah. Yeah. Watching the episode, he's just incredible. He's so present. And getting to work with him and actually watch it happening, you see just how brilliant it is. You can feel it just watching the guy He is just completely there and relaxed and just in it. Like you said, wrapping himself around the words and really owning them. It's really a unique thing. You see why he is who he is. He's just unbelievable.

And I think he really loved the idea that he was bringing in the handbook totes.

He's dropping off literal tote bags that were constructed and made to carry around your Lumen handbook. And it's the new handbook tote. So I'm assuming that every season or every year, there's a new handbook tote that comes out?

I guess. It seems like that's the thing down on the severed floor. Little things like that are a big deal, and everybody gets excited for the smallest thing because that's all they have.

That's it. That is absolutely it. Irving is really excited that he gets to see and receive a handbook tote before the official release.

Yes, exactly. It's definitely cool merch. There's a lot of merch that I feel I mean, we get into it in this episode, too, with the finger traps, right? Yeah. And that's all the Dylan world of how he really accrues merch and prizes. And it's, again, something I think it's very specific to this office culture, too, and the idea of these little rewards.

Yeah, they're like trophies, almost.

Yeah, and their goals for people to attain. And I have a bunch of Lumen mugs. And you We must have stuff over the years.

What about merch that you've received from work or around? Is there any merch? Because in entertainment, it seems to be, but I think it's everywhere with any big company. There's always like, ephemeral that's coming in. Is there any merch that's been particularly useful in your life or that you've hung on to for a long time?

I'm wearing my Nicks hoodie right now, but I don't know if that's merch or just that's swag. No, No, no. Swag is free stuff that you get. Yeah.

I bought this. Yeah, that's merch.

Merch and swag. Somebody should name a production company. Merch and swag. Merch and swag. I think Christine was on Search Party, the show Search Party. Yeah, great show. I got a tote bag from Search Party that I use all the time, even though I wasn't even on it. I just benefited from being married to her.

For whatever reason, that particular tote bag has just stuck with you.

Yes, and she'll make fun of me about all the time. So I see you've got your search party tote bag. Which is a great show.

It's such a good show. I have an Eastbound and Down fleece half zip that for whatever reason has just stuck with me, and it was like 15 years ago, but it's so comfortable and it has the added benefit of saying Eastbound and Down on it, which is cool.

Yeah, very cool. Actually, it's really great to have those things as the go by and they're like, Oh, my God, that movie, we did that long ago.

I just have to say that we've now been talking about our own merch that we have in our lives in a pretty excited fashion now for five minutes, and we were just making fun of the people at Lumen for being so excited about their merch.

We're no more evolved. We're in our own version, right? We're in a simulation. Yes. It's obviously we think we're so evolved, but that's just our version of handbook totes.

I think you're right. You and your search party tote and me and my eastbound and down fleece half zip couldn't be more excited about those things.

I can just hear Irving saying, How dare you? How dare you judge us?

Exactly. And he's right. Okay, so Haley comes back from the break room, and Mark just asks her how many times. And looking at Dylan, you get the sense that both of those guys have spent time in the break room, and it is tough.

Yeah. I mean, and she says, what, like 1,072?

Yeah, that's right. Which is a lot.

Yeah. I mean, and then you're like, okay, I don't know. I feel like there's already something going on between Mark and Haley. Where you know she's changed something in you just from the minute she showed up. It's underneath the surface.

I think so. And I think Mark is trying to push against it and push it away because he... Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then we jump to O&D and Irving visiting Bert at O&D. He takes Bert up on his directions on how to get to O&D, and he goes in and pays him a visit.

Yeah. You want to watch that clip?

Yeah, yeah.

Rise up from your deathbed and sally forth, more perfect for the struggle. Exactly. I can't believe you. You have I'm sorry. What time is it? I have to go.

Wow. They briefly touch hands there, and it's so beautiful, but obviously, it freaks Irving out this intimacy.

Yeah. In a lot of ways, they're in this version of a prison, really, where the smallest thing, everything is under surveillance. There's that aspect to it. I just think there's so much great chemistry between those two guys. And even just hearing them quote the Egan verses, it's It almost sounds like it's classical. It's just great to watch them do that. And John and Chris, it's never not exciting working with them. And so directing-wise, and I know Efa felt this two that you just set up the camera and let them do their thing and maybe give a little feedback. But it's really two incredibly accomplished actors who just are connecting.

Yeah. And These guys and their relationship brings so much emotion and tenderness to the show and humanity to the show. It really just is so lovely whenever they have a scene together. And also it's really interesting watching these two characters and their relationship sprouts from their shared love of art and how they reflect and react to the art around the the Severed floor, and the fact that Irving has long admired the art around the Severed floor, and he gets to actually meet one of the people responsible for the placement and timing of the art. And you start realizing the art and all of the details around where it comes from and what it means is so important And like you were saying before, there's such limited stimuli down there that this is like their entertainment. This is movies, TV, art. This is everything, are these paintings and what they mean and where they came from and how long they hung in a particular spot. It's all the importance of all of this is huge.

Yes, exactly right. It's the only visual stimuli, really, that they get outside of these white walls and their computer screens. Yes. I also think what John brings to Irving is this piousness, this incredible belief in the religion of what it is to work at Lumen And his belief in that as an actor, to me, is what makes everything so real. It just gives it depth. And then in the next scene where he's going back to MDR and he passes by this conference room where Milchick left the copy of the UUR, it's, again, a momentous moment.

Yeah. So momentous that he doesn't even touch it or go into the room. Right. Like, He has to just go tell Mark.

Yeah, because he wants to follow protocol, right? Because you're Department Chief, so he wants to talk to you first before he even talks to Milchick. That's right. It was important to have that book be a standout down there, even in terms of the color. That jacket cover shot is just also one of my favorite little images in the show. It's just this ridiculous self-help book. I love self-help books.

Yeah. Have you always read self-help books? I know that you and Jeanine Garofflo wrote one back in the day that I had.

That's right. Feel this book? Feel this book, right. Which it was not a best seller. Well, I bought it. Thank you, Adam. And you, you are, to me, what's so funny about it is it's almost like real. You know what I Yeah.

I remember shooting this scene where I'm reading the UUAR in the bathroom stall, and I was reading the book, and Dan Erichson had written a few chapters just so we had them in the book for me to read. I remember I would have trouble keeping it together because the text was deeply funny. I mean, it's really funny.

Yeah. I mean, it's Dan's specialty. He He could write the whole book, and I think Ricken's UUAR is available on Apple books. Yes. There's some version of it. And I mean, it's just so weirdly self-important And personal, where he's working out his own stuff in his life in the guise of a self-help book. Yes. And then it's impossible not to hear Michael Churnis' voice reading it because it's just so pompous and ridiculous. But the other thing, and this is a part of this episode that gets kicked off, is that for any Mark to read this, it is anything but funny. It's literally changing his world.

For sure. I mean, your job needs you, not the other way around, is something he reads in this book. And that is a brand new, world-shattering idea.

Yeah.

He has never thought of this job, which is everything to him, being turned around, the idea of his employer needing him rather than... That is brand new. And that combined with the influence and ideas that Heli are bringing in to MDR, things really start to snowball a bit for Mark.

Yeah. And that's something I think is really interesting about the tone of the show is that it is funny, We're saying how funny and ridiculous this silly take on a self-help book is, but we're also giving it the weight for the characters who don't have that sense of humor, who wouldn't know, like any Mark in his innocence. And it actually becomes a huge plot point in the show and really shifts a lot of things in terms of what goes on from here on in. Yeah, for sure. And just how Irving gets Mark and Dylan to come look at the book and how they're all staring. And Efa did a great job with that shot of the three of you just staring at the book on the chair. And that scene plays out really beautifully in that three-shot where you're going back and forth about, well, what should we do with this thing. And again, how Irving is so by the book and everybody's quoting what the handbook would say to do in a situation like this. Irving says, maybe it's a loyalty test, just like the spicy candy. That's right. What is the spicy candy?

What was that? The spicy candy?

Jesus.

Yeah. It's like the bad soap. Yeah. And then Dylan, just great Dylan dialog of, no, it's Boody. It's Boody with your name on it. That's right. I love that. That's right. It's a big deal to figure out what to do with this thing. And then Dylan is secretly obsessed with it, too. And there's that scene where he goes in and roots around in your drawer and finds it and reads the acrostic poem.

Yeah, let's listen to that. D is for dreaming, the start of it all. E is for energy, breaking down walls. S is for stewardship of home and of Earth.

T is for terror, which gives us more worth. I is for eyes. Which observe us with love until N, meaning newness, rains down from above. And Y, That's a question we need it now ponder. For destiny, friends, shall deliver all yonder.

Hey, how are you? Good. Yeah. It seems like you're getting a hang of stuff here. I mean, it's wild. Again, under these crazy conditions without access to any media, something as ridiculous as an acrostic poem or juvenile is profound, truly.

T is for terror, which gives us more worth. Yeah, it's crazy. It's like, what does that mean?

Well, As with any acrostic poem, there are two or three that just really seem jammed in there and don't make a whole lot of sense.

I is for eyes, which observe us with love. No, that would be E.

Yeah, I is not for I's at all.

And Y is now the word Y, which should be W.

And Y, that's a question we need now ponder, which means I couldn't think of anything that starts So why?

Yeah, I love the childlike quality of it all. And also what it's intercut with in the episode is anything but that.

And also I love Rickon, and I think that Rick-in means well, and there's a ceiling for Ricken as to self-awareness. I think he isn't the fool that you could judge him as. He is a really interesting character.

God, Michael's incredible.

Just incredible.

Yeah, I agree. All of these characters, on the one hand, could seem really silly or childlike, or it could seem like just one note, but then there is always something else underneath them that's grounded.

Yeah. With that, let's take a quick break. Don't go anywhere. We will be back soon to talk about the rest of episode 4. Okay, We're back, and we are back with a fact check. Ben, it turns out that feel this book was in fact a best seller when it came out.

Oh my God, really?

Yeah.

Wow. Wow. And you know what? We must have gamed the system somehow.

That's right.

Maybe I bought up all the copies or something.

And I still have that book, actually, another fact check. Really? Yeah.

I don't think people knew what to make of it, really. When they read it, they probably thought, oh, maybe this is... I don't know. I think we thought we were being funny, and I don't know if we were.

I think it was funny. I got it. I mean, you guys are both looking into the camera in a similar way to Mark Dier and Rick and just like with black turtlenecks, am I right?

Black turtlenecks, that's right. But that's a whole... We could go into what we thought was funny back then and ridiculous talk show appearances and things like that.

Did you guys go out and promote it Like as the Black... Yes.

Oh, fantastic. I think when that came out, I might have gone on Konan with Janine, and we might have just pretended that we were serious the whole time. Or there was one, I think, around that time when we went on Konan and did I said I was doing a stomp, like a revival of a stomp show, which was like the... But it was like with garbage or something and did a whole dance number. It's really so much energy being expended. That's great.

That's great.

Another time.

I'm sure I watched it and thought it was hilarious. Okay, we're back in MDR, and Heli finds the map that Mark had found in the group photo, finds it in Mark's desk while he's in the kitchen, and she and Dylan are looking at it, and it just causes an immediate problem. But at the same time, Mark has been looking at the sneaky looks at this map, so there is something in him that is curious about this, and he just read the book, and so he's been thinking about it, too. But he doesn't want them to think that, and he's fighting against it himself. There's this moment where Haley says the work is bullshit, and that offends Mark, and he says, The work is...

What is it? Mysterious and important. The work. You say it in a very self-important way. It's like, Hey, the work is mysterious and important. Don't forget it.

I'm assuming, or I assumed reading that dialog, that that was an important say. That's something we say to each other. That's something that we feel about the work we're doing.

I think so. I think it's probably in the handbook. It feels to me like that's... It might even be what is is the answer when the question is, what are we doing here? Exactly. Because no one's really being told what they're actually doing.

What are we doing with these numbers? What are we doing with all of it?

The deflection is the work is mysterious and important, and that's what you need to know.

The result of this fight is Mark takes the map and puts it into the paper shredder. In that little cabinet where he got the paper shredder, there is a paper cutter that Halee spots, and she grabs that paper cutter. In a continuation of this whole thing that's been going throughout the series where we're using office ephemeral as weaponry. She grabs a paper cutter, storms into Kabel's office, and threatens to cut off her four fingers if she doesn't get a video camera to make a message for her Audi.

Yeah, which is the only thing That's the thing that an INI can probably do to somehow get some leverage is to threaten physical harm to the body that they share with the Audi.

Yeah.

It's smart. It's smart. She goes right in there and confronts Kabel And Cobell definitely gets it. You can see. I think this is also the Cobell in this episode is she's very much the stern administrator. And also, we get to see a little bit more of how far she'll go, and she'll let Heli have her rope a little bit. But ultimately, she's going to get what she needs to get, and she's not going to get her way.

Yeah. And just from the ultra-specificity of Patricia's work, I get the feeling that usually by this point, people are brought to heal, and Heli is pushing it a bit further than anyone has, and it's starting to wear on her patience. But she's going to cut her fingers off. I mean, what's she going to do? She's got to get the video camera and get this done.

Exactly. And she knows that that'll be what's going to happen the next step. She's already thinking three steps ahead. Yeah. And she gets to record her little video message, and then they all walk her to the elevator with the video message on her little mini disk. And what does she say? I guess it's the part where I should tell you all to go to hell, but you're already there. What a great line. Yeah, it's great. It's like... And doesn't she say also like, Oh, and I was never sorry.

Yeah, She says that to Milchick. I mean, I guess she's saying it to everyone.

Yeah, it's like the break room. I don't care. I said it 1,072 times, but I wasn't sorry. Doors closed, we're in her POV, and Saifa did this in a really smart way, where from her POV, she looks down, and all of a sudden, she's got a different mini disk in her hand, and the doors open, and there you all are Yeah, slightly different clothes. Yeah. And in my mind, always looking like the Adams family or something. It's just this group. Freaks. It's like, you're back. Here we are.

Yeah. So she arrives with this different mini-disc, and everyone gathers in MDR to watch the video that the Audi made for her INI. So shall we take a listen to what Kelly's Audi has to say here?

Yeah. Haleigh. I watched your video asking that I resign. I also received and responded to your previous request. I assumed that would resolve the issue, but now Ms. Kabel says you threaten to cut off your fingers? I understand that you're unhappy with the life that you've been given. But you know what? Eventually, we all have to accept reality. So here it is. I am a person. You are not. I make the decisions. You do not. And if you ever do anything to my fingers, know that I will keep you alive long enough to horribly regret that. Your resignation request is denied. Turn it off.

(lemmer) Wow. It's rare to have it distilled down to such frank language. I am a person, you are not. That is what they really think of us down here is, and that is so harsh.

No, it's the reality. It's like also in the beginning of the episode when you see what's going on in the break room. This is the episode where you get to really understand how bleak this is for this reality for these innies. And yeah, she is really making it clear that she, and probably What is the world outside? How does the culture look at INEs? This is something we hint at earlier in the season, too, just the debate as to what are the rights of an INE? How much of a person are they?

I think for Mark and for everyone there in MDR, they already know this. They already, to a certain extent, assume or know this about how they're viewed in the outside world. For Mark, I think Hely pushing and pushing and pushing is destructive, and it's frustrating because this is all we're going to get. If you keep pushing, the best we can hope for is this. And now you've brought this all out to the surface again, and it's going to depress and discourage everyone in the office, and it's going to take us another week or so to get everyone back into the spirit of Lumen and MD. It's just a reminder of something as a boss, you'd rather not have everyone subject to.

Yeah, you want to keep your head in the sand a little more. Yeah. That's Mark at this point. And I like what you did right after that at the end, where you see how you're reacting to it because you can see that you're feeling that, but you're also feeling... I think you're just, again, being affected by the questions she's asking and feeling a little bit of empathy for her, more than a little empathy, but also just... It's something is not ringing true to you or feeling the same. At least that's what I get from what you're doing there, is that Mark's starting to just feel a little different about all this.

That's right. And again, the Rickon book has and the map. This is the beginning of the everything cracking here for Mark.

Yeah. And it was fun, I think, for us when we were shooting that to see what Audi Heli was like, just to get it for Brit to play around with that.Super interesting.Yeah. And just get a different... It's a different character, really. Different feeling.

Very condescending. Talking to her Annie like she's a child.

Yeah. That's just one of the things about this world in this show is that there's an opportunity to explore these different dualities in what is supposedly the same person. It is the same person, but very different. I just think that's an interesting idea. These are not different characters. I just said it's a different character, but really, It's the same character, it's the same character. It's just different aspects to this person's personality.

Yeah, different part of them. All right, so let's talk about Petey's funeral. This is super interesting. It's Mark, Audi Mark, is at at the funeral. Why do you think he has decided to go to this thing?

Well, I think Mark is curious because after what happened with Petey, and he basically saw Petey die in front of him. And Audi Mark at this point is, there's this phone that's in his basement that's buzzing, and he's starting to get curious. And obviously, to have somebody come into his life and then die mysteriously like that. And also, after everything he was saying to him, I think he's really... It's interesting, the dual trajectory of Innie and Outie Mark. Innie Mark is starting to get awake into something. Outie Mark is starting to get awake into something. And so he's curious, and he goes to the funeral.

I think there's some guilt in there, too, maybe?

I think so. I mean, just off of that ending of episode three, when Mark goes back and hides the phone and gets all freaked out. He didn't really do anything, but he didn't really help him maybe enough. Yeah. And he's trying to figure out what to do, and he meets Pee Dee's daughter there and his ex.

We see this video that's really effective, where Petey and his daughter, played by the great Cassidy Leighton, by the way, she's so good. Yeah. Just excellent. And his ex-wife, Nina, played by Joanne Kelly, who is also just excellent. But this video that they show at the Memorial service of Petey and his daughter playing guitars and singing Enter Sandman, the Metallica song, what made you zero in on that song?

I think we were looking for a song that we knew would be the soundtrack to Cobell showing up. And by the way, Patricia is just amazing in this sequence, or Selvig. She shows up to get that chip out of Petey's head. And we thought, what could be a fun, spooky, cool song to have that sequence play out to? Who doesn't like Enter Sandman? It's one of my favorite songs.

It really works. It really works so well.

Yeah, it's great. And they did a great job of playing it together and singing it, and Yule playing on the guitar. And it was fun to see how that sequence came together and the way Efa shot it with seeing through the hole, the drill hole in his head. Yeah, it's such a cool shot. Honestly, this was a moment when we were making the show, I was like, Oh, man, I hope people go along with this because it feels right to me, but Cobell is going to drill a hole in a dead man's head at his funeral. And this is like we're saying something about who this character is and also the tone of the show. And then when you think about it-It's a big swing. It's a lot. But when you think about it with the break room and the mean message from Haley's Audi, it's a very dark episode. And we committed to it. And I think it really defines Cobell in terms of her commitment to this company and to also just getting things done that she wants to get done. She will do what she needs to do, and she does it on her own, really.

She's not really telling anybody about it.

That's right. It turns out that this wasn't asked of her. She went and did this rogue. That's right. Kind of rogue. Yeah. One other thing that's great about Enter Sandman is that this version of Enter Sandman is like a happy giggly version with this father and daughter having this great time. And that cut with the gruesomeness of Patricia drilling into Yule's head is really effective. And I seem to remember Yule was there, but there was also a dummy of Yule there. Am I right about that, or was it just Yule?

It was Yule, and we had a head, like a Yule head. And I have to say the sound on that scene, there's two sounds, one, the drill sound, which is just so ominous. And then the creaking, just little detail, the creaking of the opening of the casket. Yes. I find so creepy. Yes. And that's just a place where our sound mixers really and designers really Just those little things that just make it that much more palpable.

Makes a huge difference when that stuff is dialed in that well.

Patricia is so funny also at the casket when she comes up and you see she tries to talk to June and says, he was your... She says, he was my father, and she goes, so I guess you were close then.

So weird. She's so weird.

So weird, Ms. Selvig.

Okay, so we are We're back in Lumen now.

You know, the scene after that is the scene where Ms. Casey is told by Cobell to have a wellness session with Mark.

That's right.

What I love about that is that she's wanting to test Mark, it seems, in some way, because we see the candle that she got out of his basement in episode three. And there's that candle, and the candle's burning in the room, and she asked him to sculpt a little ball of clay. And in this episode, we didn't talk about this, but Mark has that moment after the funeral where he drives out to the spot where Gemma's car crashed. Oh, right. You have this incredibly emotional moment, really the most emotional moment since the first episode, where you're there at the site where she died. And then in the room with Ms. And Just needless to say, Adam, you did an amazing job with that scene. I think it's also beautifully shot by Jessica and Efa.

For sure.

It's so evocative and so simple and so stark. And then you're asked to sculpt this ball of clay by Ms. Casey, and you sculpt it into that tree, the shape of that tree, which is this little... Okay, now we're starting to see the permeation of the iny and the Audi a little bit.

Yeah, it broke through a little bit there. Yeah. The the candle she got from the basement, she took it from the box that said...

Gemma's Crafts, right?

Gemma's Crafts, that's right. So who knows if that had anything to do with that breaking through, but she wanted to see if it would have any effect on it.

Yeah. At this point, we don't quite know what's going on with all of this in terms of what Cobell is up to and what Ms. Casey knows or doesn't know, or it's all, I think, starting to percolate.

That scene is intercut with Dylan finding Rickens' book in Mark's desk and starting to explore that and read from it the acrostic poem, and then also Heli gathering up a couple of items, an extension cord and a trash can, and walking to the elevator and preparing to hang herself in the elevator, which is really horrifying to watch that process.

Really disturbing. And again, just the more we talk about this, I just realized how dark this episode is. Yeah, it really is. How unsettling it is and what it's dealing with, these themes of just Heli wants out of there enough that she's ready to end it. And yeah, the way that that sequence was shot by Efa and Jessica and the way that Erica Friedmarker and Jeff Richmond edited it with Etha, I think is just very elegant in that you intercut her doing all these things with the poem, but then also the last moment is you checking in with Hale and her saying, oh, I'm fine. And then we cut to the trash can being kicked out. And I feel very impactful on a lot of levels in terms of what people deal with and what they keep to themselves and those themes that are much more than even what the show is about in terms of someone who's in that state.

Also, it shows that Haley will not stop. She believes that this place is bullshit, and she is being treated inhumanely, where being treated inhumanely, and she will not stop.

Yeah, and she's tried everything. She's tried everything to get out of there, and this is her last resort.

Well, also in the midst of all this, Irving is wandering the the severed floor just love-sick, wandering the halls, and he comes upon... He goes into O&D to maybe try and find Bert, and he opens a door, and he comes upon this massive white room filled with people in lab coats working on something. He does not know what, and neither do we.

I don't think it's taking swear words out of movies.

It could be, though. I mean, that's a pretty good theory. But that is a huge moment.

Yeah. It's a question of what is really going on back there.

Okay, well, that's it for episode 4 of the Severance podcast. With Adam and best-selling author Ben. The Severance podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is a presentation of Odyssey, Pineapple Street Studios, Red Hour Productions, and Great Scott Productions.

If you like the show, be sure to rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, the Odyssey app, or your other podcast platform of choice. Our executive producers are Barry Thinckele, Henry Malowski, Jenna Weis-Burman, and Leah Reece Dennis. The show is produced by Zandra Ellen and Naomi Scott. This episode was mixed and mastered by Chris Baisal. We have additional engineering from Javi Kruises and Davie Sumner.

Show clips are courtesy of Fifth Season. Music by Theodore Shapiro. Special thanks to the team at Odyssey, Maura Curran, Eric Donnelly, Michael Lavey, Melissa Wester, Matt Casey, Kate Rose, Kirt Courtney, and Hilary Shuff.

And the team at Red Hour, John Lesher, Carolina Pessacoff, Jean Pablo Antanetti, Martin Valderuten, Ashwin Ramesh, Maria Noto, John Baker, and Oliver Agger.

And at Great Scott, Kevin Cotter, Josh Martin, and Christie Smith at Rise Management.

We also had additional production help from Gabrielle Lewis, Ben Goldberg, Stephen Key, Kristen Perez, Emmanuel Hapsis, Maria Alexa Cavenagh, and Melissa Slaater.

I'm Adam Scott.

I'm Ben Stiller. And next up is episode 5, The Grim Barbarity of Optics and Design.

And you can, of course, stream all episodes of Season 1 on Apple TV Plus right now.

And Season 2 premieres on January 17th.

And we're releasing these podcast episodes daily until then.

Yeah, and now I'm going to go to sleep. I'm so excited.

Oh, my God, I can't wait.

By the way, did you ever read the Sleep Book by Dr. Seuss?

No. Well, maybe when I was little. Is it that or is it more of a grown up thing?

No, it's definitely a children's book, but I loved it so much because it was all about how different people were going to sleep, different creatures. Interesting. I I was obsessed with that book. Anyway, that's another thing that I love about sleeping, is the sleep book.

I really loved that Maurice Sandak book about the kid who makes the cookies, and he's in a cookie airplane and all his clothes melt off and he falls into the milk and stuff. I forget what that one was called.

It was called In the Night Kitchen. Oh, I loved that. Mickey was flying his little cookie airplane into the milk, and then he jumps into the milk and in the milk. At the end, it's like, That's why we have cake in the morning. The three cooks look like Oliver Hardy from Laurel and Hardy. Yes, they do. It's so great. It's like all of the food in the cabinet is like the nightscape of a city. Yes. Oh, yeah.

Loved it. Man, I just loved that book so much. Anyway, I'm going to go to sleep, too. All right. Good night, Ben. Good night. Bye.

Hey, Adam. Yeah. Is your experience at work a bit dysfunctional lately? I don't know.

I think it's...

It's... Okay, I'll take that as a yes. Your team could undergo a highly controversial surgical procedure that would mercifully sever any and all memories of that work experience from your home lives. Or you could try Confluence by Adlassian.

Oh, my God. Well, if it's a choice between those two things, I think I would 100 100% choose Confluence by Atlassian.

Confluence is the connected workspace where teams can collaborate and create like never before, where teams have easy access to the relevant pages and resources their projects call for while discovering important context they didn't even know they needed. A space where AI streamlines the things that normally eat up their time, letting teams generate, organize, and deliver work faster. In fact, with Confluence, teams can see a 5.2% average boost in productivity in one year.

That would equal out if we're playing with, let's just say 100%, 5.2 of those percentage points, that's the improvement.

I mean, I'm not great at math, but that sounds very close.

Well, I'm doing the math in my head right now as we speak, and I think that's great.

Why not keep your team unsevered in Confluence, the connected workspace where teams can do it all? Set knowledge free with Confluence. Learn more at atlassian. Com/confluence. That's atlassian. Com/confluen. Com.confluencie..