Transcript of It's Never Too Late To Start Over

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is The Ramsey Show, and I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with my good friend and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Campbell. So we'll be answering your questions at 888-825-5225 about your life and your money.

Let's pregame before the happy hour.

I know.

This is it.

We leave for a recording right after this, so we're together all afternoon, me and George.

I apologized already to Rachel.

Don't worry. All right, let's go to Kurt in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Kurt. Welcome to the show.

Hi, hey, thanks. How you guys doing?

Hi, we're doing great. How are you doing?

Good. Uh, I'm doing good. So I got a question. So we, we have some, uh, some debt and, uh, I'm not quite sure how much. I know we do have a loan for $25,000. Uh, we have a car payment. Well, we have two car payments and, um, my wife says she has— we have about 3 or 4 years left on the one car. Um, but every time I bring up Dave Ramsey, she, my wife, cringes. Her ex-husband, you know, lived by Dave Ramsey. And every time she says, I hear that name, I don't want to talk to you. I don't want to have anything to do with you because I hate that name. I want to follow what Dave says, but she doesn't want that. So I just feel like we're continuing, just continuing to just pile on more debt. And I mean, she wants, you know, We want to do things, but it's like, how can we? I don't say it to her, but it's like, how can we? We have— we don't have any money. We're just going deeper into debt.

Yeah. How long have you guys been married?

20 years.

How long would— oh, okay. How long was she married to her ex?

Uh, just a short time, I believe a year and a half.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

So she has thrown the Baby Steps out with the bathwater here. It's unfortunate.

Correct.

Yeah, just a trigger for her. She associates with her past trauma. And so therefore, anything you talk about the Baby Steps and Dave, but does she actually want to get out of debt on the underneath the surface of that?

I don't, I don't think she does. I think she's, I don't want to say used to living like this, but yeah, it's probably, it might be the normal for her.

Yeah. And I think there, there's a lot of situations where people just can kind of coast. They're not, they're not in a disaster zone, but they're also not thriving. They're kind of just average. You know what I mean? It's just kind of that normal feeling.

You got to take the hard left. It's one of the hardest places to be.

Yeah, I was gonna say, and it is sometimes tough if there's not a massive motivation for change. And for some people, it's spiritual and emotional. Some people, it's circumstantial. Like, I mean, it's, you know, it looks different for everyone. And so, I think more of the concentration would be how you guys get on the same page, right? I mean, we obviously, agree on a way to handle money here at Ramsey Solutions. But what we wanna see you guys is win in your marriage and win with money. So I'm just, I wanna talk through a little bit more of how to get you guys on the same page.

Okay.

So when you do bring it up, what's your wording? 'Cause sometimes, Kurt, I'm not gonna put you in this bucket, but some of our listeners sometimes, are very enthusiastic. And it's almost this like, I'm going to— a level of shame. You're doing it wrong. It's all about her. You, you, you versus less about what you're thinking and feeling and desiring. Does that make sense?

Yeah, that does make sense. And she doesn't. So she does not right now. She doesn't work. And so she hasn't worked for many years. And so she says her job is to take care of the house. And pay the bills. So when I try to bring up, well, how much do we owe on this? I don't like flat out say, what do we owe on this? What do we have on this? How much is the monthly payment? I just kind of nonchalantly, you know, try to get it out of her, but she just— I don't know the exact— any numbers. I don't want to say any numbers, but some of the numbers—

you don't know a lot. Yeah, I mean, as you were listening, you're like, I don't— yeah. And, and Kurt, you know, asking how much you guys owe on something, that's not wrong. That's—

I don't think you're overstepping there.

That's not an overstep. An overstep would be like, I can't believe that "you keep doing this and this is your fault. And the fact that we're here is because of your decisions," right? Like it's more pointing at her. But you asking how much you owe on a car loan, Kurt, I think that's okay. I think that's okay.

So, I think Rachel's right. Lead with the I statements. "I feel like I've been in the dark. I feel like I haven't been doing a good job leading in this area. We've been married this long and I feel like I'm just kind of floundering here. And I wanna be on the same page. I wanna accomplish some amazing things with you. Are you willing to go on this journey?" And I wanna know what's going on.

With our money. Like, that, that's okay to say. Do you feel like you tiptoe around her and other issues besides just money?

Uh, money is pretty much the only issue I tiptoe, tiptoe around with her on. I don't know why.

Okay, how old are you two?

Uh, we're 50.

Okay, so what does she want at 52 or 55? Does she have any goals, dreams, desires?

I know her, what she talks about to me, and is, oh, we want to, you know, when our daughter— she's 13— when she goes off to college, we want to, you know, move here and have, you know, an acre or two and, you know, buy another house. And she says that, but I think— I'm thinking that while she says that, I'm thinking in my head, how are we going to do that? We don't even have any money saved.

But what if you go with her on the dream and go, I love this, now let's reverse engineer this dream. What must be true for us to have a second home and send our kid to college debt-free? Well, we need margin. What's taking up the margin? Oh, you know what? What if we got rid of the car payments? Man, that'd free up some money we could then invest. And what if we save this much over time and we could afford that second home in cash? And what if I could retire at 56 instead of working 'cause I have to at 78? Now it's a different conversation. That has nothing to do with Dave. The byproduct might be we follow a plan that works. But right now I think we need to do some dreaming together.

Yeah, I know. And I do agree with that. It's just, maybe I'm more of a realist and think we can't do that. That's impossible.

There's always a how person and a wow person in the marriage. And you are the how.

You're like, "Yeah, that's not gonna work." And she's like, "Wow, way to be a dream killer, Kurt." And it's probably what she thinks Ramsey is, is a bunch of dream killers that we can't do anything or anything fun. Funny daddies.

It does.

You know, and so, yeah, so Kurt, and I want you to, I really want you to step in and it doesn't have to be combative, but two adults in a marriage should have equal say in what is going on. And so, she has carried the weight, but also, carried all of the influence. And that needs to be really evened out. That yes, she can still pay the bills. Like, my husband's the one that goes on and actually hits the buttons and does it. Thank God.

Sweet mercy.

Or I'm gonna get paid. So that's okay. But sitting down together and agreeing on what is going on with your money and knowing where it's going, that's not an out-of-bounds conversation. That's actually leading to a healthy marriage.

Yeah, I agree with that. So having that conversation with her, just to, you know, be involved with her and see how she does things and see how it— and then slowly make suggestions based off what, you know, I'm observing her doing.

Yes, you need to get really good at improv, Kurt. And the key to improv is yes and. So when she says it, go, yes and what if the way to get there was this? What if we crafted a plan to get to your goal instead of "Ah, we're never gonna own a house 'cause we got two car payments." Now it's a fight instead of a dream session. And I think that that vision and dreaming needs to come first. The why has to come first before, "We need to get on a budget. Your spending's out of control." It's never gonna go well.

And George, we find in Money and Marriage, when you have those conversations and the conflict arises and you actually learn why she's frustrated here or why she's scared here or why she is annoyed with the, like you actually start to get to know your spouse more. When you avoid the hard conversations, you never get to the depths of really what's going on within them. So it's actually such a positive because you, you get to know your spouse at a better level, at a deeper level. And then that's when you can really start to create solutions because you're a team working together, not just two individuals running on separate tracks.

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Up next, we have Wanda in Seattle, Washington. Hi, Wanda. Welcome to the show.

Hi.

Hello, how are you doing?

Well, I'm doing okay, just a little stressed.

Oh, I'm sorry. What's going on? How can we help?

Um, I'm trying to figure out how to get some money in my savings, or any savings anywhere. Um, we make, um, $102,000 a year.

Okay.

Um, and I have $57,000 in debt. Okay, I have $175 in savings and that's it.

All right, are you, are you working and your husband?

No, we're both retired. I'm 73 and he's 76.

Okay, but you make $102,000. Is that from pensions or—

it's— yeah, he has— he's retired military, he has disability and his pension and Social Security and I have Social Security.

Okay, so is that $102,000 going to be for the foreseeable future?

Yes.

Okay. Well, that's—

Until we get our next pay raise.

And when—

It's like a cost of living adjustment? Is that what the pay raise is?

Yes.

Okay.

Okay.

Yes.

So it'll just slowly go up to meet inflation, basically, but it's not like you're getting a true raise where you're going to have a ton of extra margin, necessarily.

No.

Okay, so what kind of debt's the $57,000? Lay it out for us.

Um, I have $14,000 in credit card debt, and, um, I have $32,000 on a travel trailer that I really don't want, and then I've got $16,000 on a personal loan.

Okay, and that's everything?

Yeah, that's, that's, that's everything. I, I do have it. I have a truck that I'm leasing, which I If I knew how to get out of it, I'd get out of it.

Okay. Um, so a lease truck. Okay. Um, for the $32,000 trailer, have you— I'm assuming you've looked to sell it because you said you don't really want it. How much could you get for it?

Yeah. Um, but I don't know if we were— if we're— I mean, you got— what do you call it?

Um, underneath, you know, underwater on it. Okay.

But is it worth $30K or is it worth $10K? 'Cause there's a big difference.

It's worth—

it gets it worth $30,000. It's only 2 years old.

OK. So you might be able to get out unscathed. Or maybe you put in $1,000 to get out of this. But that gets rid of over half your debt.

Yeah, that's amazing.

What's the payment on that?

Um, $287 a month.

OK. And what's the $14,000 in credit card debt? How did that happen?

Well, this shows you how smart we are. We refinanced our house, paid off all our credit cards, and in 2 months it was back up to $7,000.

Wow.

So we never actually fixed the behavior underneath.

No.

We just played a little shell game and we're back to where we are. Well, are you guys ready to change? Because that part we have—

that's the root of all this. Yeah, he says he wants to be debt-free. So I'm glad I pulled him in.

Let's put the money where the mouth is there. Well, because you guys have a great income. If you called in and you were both working making $100 grand and had $50 to pay off, I'd go, great, we can solve this thing within 6 months. Sell the trailer, live on nothing, and throw it all to debt. You guys are done. And then you have all this margin for the rest of your life to build wealth with.

Yeah. How old are you guys, Wanda?

73 and 76.

73 and 76.

OK. Yeah, so there's a shorter life expectancy here.

No!

I don't think we'll make it 30 years.

I mean, you made it this far.

We're going to go positive! You never know what's happening.

Life expectancy doesn't reflect reality because you've got people who died super young; people who died super old. So, the fact that you made it into your 70s— and you guys were in decent health, sounds like?

Yeah.

OK. Wanda, here's what we're going to have you do. George, tell me if you agree with my assessment.

No.

Number one, Wanda: we're going to cut up the credit cards. K? Okay, you have to stop.

As of right now, I put a stop on him.

Great, but cut them up.

Cut them up and close the account.

Do you have one near you right now?

Uh, no.

Hmm, that's unfortunate.

My husband has— my husband has his, and mine are in a lockbox somewhere.

Okay, perfect. So tonight though, Wanda, you promise me and George that you guys are going to sit down at the table You're gonna take all those out and you're gonna look, and you should be mad at them, Wanda. They've not helped you. They've not helped you.

No, they haven't.

They're horrible. It's terrible. They're terrible. And so, you should want to just demolish them. And if you do it in a creative way, just DM me and George and let us know. But yeah, get rid of the credit cards. That's the first thing. Okay. Number 2, I want you guys to do a written budget and I wanna figure out how much money you can get out every single month that's extra, okay? So you guys, what you bring home every month, what can we, if we don't go out to eat, whatever we do, month to month, how much money can we get back? And it would be fun just to add to it that if you sold this trailer and you got an extra $300, right? Add that in. So it's like, could you get up to $1,000? Could you get to $1,500? What does that look like for you all? And I want you to find that margin because I want you to get this. I think you said you have $175 in savings. I want you to get that up to $1,000. And I want you to do that fast. I want you to look around and see if there's stuff you can sell, how you can get that.

And I would say, I don't know, George, what, 2 months?

I mean, you should be able to do this in less than 30 days based on your numbers. And that's— so that's all right. We got to add $250 a week to this thing. What can I sell this week? How can I cut our budget to create that much margin so that we can get to a little bit of safety? Because when's the last time you guys had $1,000 to your name and kept it for a while?

Um, quite a while ago when we were actually debt-free.

Yep, yep. So yep, so that's gonna be your first step, Wanda, okay, is that. And then I want you to keep that momentum of that $250 a week or more, whatever you can find, to start throwing at this debt. And if you If you can sell the trailer, then you guys will have $30,000 of consumer debt, okay? So if you have $1,000 a month, obviously it's gonna take you, you know, a little over a year. If you have—

If you do $1,500 a month, it'll take you 20 months. So less than 2 years, you guys could be debt-free. And if you could do more, I mean, you guys are bringing home how much every month? What ends up in your bank account?

85.

Okay, so think about that. $8,500. Could you live off of half of that to cover just your basic bills and your minimum debt payments?

Most likely. We have before.

OK, so now we're talking $4,200 going at this thing. If you used half for living, the other half for debt, you're done in 6 months, 7 months. OK, so we're not talking sacrifice forever. We're talking about 6 months of sacrifice and then 6 months to build up an emergency fund.

That's good, George. I was way less aggressive. I was like, "$1,000 a month, Wanda, we can do this!" Weak! George just found you $4,000!

Because you told me you can live off half of your income if you guys got serious about this.

I mean, seriously, Wanda, and then you guys are in retirement making $102,000 a year. It's great! And if you guys wanted to do some extra savings on the side, which I think you should, you should be on that debt, get a fully funded emergency fund, but you just kind of keep that lifestyle going for a bit. And if you could do this in 6 months, you could get that emergency fund in 5 months.

Yeah, you'll get there in no time. Do you guys have a mortgage?

Yeah.

OK, what's the mortgage every month?

$2,482.

OK, and how much is left on that?

Uh, we just refinanced last May, so $350,000.

$350,000 left. OK. Well, you guys will be in good shape to keep affording that mortgage and even throw extra at it and invest once you knock out these consumer debts. So right now, let's start to really build for this future ahead of us. Let's imagine 2 years from now you guys are completely debt-free with the emergency fund, investing for the future, paying off the house early, and no stress in the house.

And I'll say one thing, like the future is now for you all. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, it is like—

It starts today.

It starts today, but it is. Yeah, it has to happen now. I mean, it really does. For you guys to, yeah, to not have stress about this. I mean, you know, you're, You guys are in your 70s. It feels chaotic financially. You've made some bad mistakes, repeated those bad mistakes. But this honestly is the moment that you both look at each other and say, okay, we're gonna have to do something different because the credit cards aren't helping us. The personal loans aren't helping us. What are we gonna do?

We deserve a better life for us in retirement.

Yeah, to do the opposite. Yes. Where you're living on less than you make, you're getting out of debt, you're staying out of debt. You have cash in the bank for an emergency fund. And it's all so doable, Wanda, it really is. So you guys had some hard work in your lives to create that 102, and so we want that to go as far as possible for you.

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If you are working the Baby Steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using EveryDollar. And so what's great about EveryDollar is it's not just just a budgeting app. It's now a plan that is built right into the app. So beyond just budgeting, you can walk through your financial journey with EveryDollar. You can track your progress and get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation that's gonna help you free up more money and work the plan faster. It's like having, you know, me or George walking with you every single day on what to do with your money. So make sure to check out EveryDollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Alright, let's go to Olivia in Miami, Florida. Hi Olivia, welcome to the show.

Let's get her on the line here.

Oh my gosh.

The button's stuck. The button is stuck, I promise you. Rachel, click it.

I did. OK, there she is.

She's back. We got you, Olivia. How you doing?

Hi Olivia.

Can you hear me, guys?

Yes, we can. George fixed the button, so now you're on.

IT support.

How can we help?

Um, my husband and I have very different spending habits. He is more of an in-the-moment kind of person. Like, he sees something, he likes something, he buys it. And then what happens is Friday comes and I can't pay the babysitter. And he likes to spend, and I like to be more organized with money. And I respect that, it's his way of living. But let's say yesterday we had a negative in our account, we're over $100,000 in debt. And he hired guys to like do construction to extend our house. And, you know, I respect his way of living, but I think you need to stop respecting his way of living.

I don't.

That sounds—

he's putting your entire family in jeopardy and in danger.

Very stressful.

Nothing about this demands respect.

This isn't like, oh, he likes a shirt and he's gonna go buy it. This is, this is bad. Like, you can't— you, you're not even be— you're not able to pay for your actual needs in life of which— of what you're needing to do.

So what do I do?

How long you been married?

5 years.

Okay, it sounds like you're at the end of your rope. Like, you're like, I've talked to him, I've tried everything and nothing's worked. Is he combative? Is he defensive? What is he like when you approach him going, hey, we're $100,000 in debt and we can't pay for our bills? Are you not scared?

Are you—

do you not feel a sense of urgency about this? How does he respond?

He's like, "No, I'm gonna get a deposit next week, or in a month from now. We'll be fine. Everything's gonna be fine." And sometimes, he's right, but not always.

No. Well, and so, what's gonna have to change within him is that he may be fine, but his wife is scared to death. And his wife is stressed out. And so, in order to love your wife well, you actually have to surrender some of the things that you want in order to take care of her, right? And that's where this money stuff stops being money, and it starts being marriage. It's marriage issues, that your husband does not listen to you and doesn't respect you, Olivia, in order to change his behavior, in order to— and again, you're not— and what you're asking for is not crazy. Like, this is pretty basic math here that he's just completely going against.

What can I— is there anything I can do without changing him to like, I don't know, protect myself maybe, just so that I, I don't stress about it all the time?

Um, for the short term you can, but for— that's not a long-term, long-term solution because if anything, it just continues to divide your marriage. The, the goal would be that you guys as a married couple heal and, and find a path forward. And then the money habits and all of that follow. I don't want you to just avoid the issue by opening up your own accounts for the long term. Now, for the short term, we can talk through some of that if you really do feel like—

You need enough money in your own account to pay the bills so you don't get foreclosed on.

Yep. How much do you guys make a year?

It fluctuates, but the last few years it was in the high High 200s.

Okay, are you both working?

I work for him.

You work for him? Okay, so how much— yeah, do you— do you bring home— do you bring home a paycheck? Like, does that—

I don't— I don't get a salary, you know, I just work.

So you work for him for this business?

Yeah.

And then all the money just flows into y'all's checking account?

Right.

Okay.

What kind of work do you do?

Um, he does construction and I do his, I do his books, ironically.

So you tell us, what is the path forward for him to see this thing for what it is? You guys make $285,000 and you have nothing to show for it. You're going backwards every single month.

I don't know, I guess I need to have a conversation with him, but how do I go about that conversation?

Usually, the most productive way is more concentrating on you, Olivia, cuz the sad thing is you can't change him. You can— you can tell him and express to him exactly what you're feeling, what you're thinking, what your desires are. I mean, and at this point, Olivia, I mean, what your ultimatums are, right? Like, you don't wanna live like this for the rest of your life, where you're scared you can't even pay your bills. And so, you know, an ultimatum that if he doesn't do X, Y, and Z, meaning like he doesn't spend over X amount without you both agreeing, he doesn't spend extra until X, Y, and Z is paid, you know, these kind of things, that is a normal way to live. And if he refuses to do that, then yeah, then, I mean, I would be taking a salary then from the company and paying myself and having my own account until you guys can get on the same page, right? And so, there's some— and it's not like, "I'm gonna throw this in your face," in a threatening way. It's more of a, "I'm scared to death, and I'm stressed. I'm losing sleep at night.

I feel like I'm losing you as my husband. I don't feel like I'm being heard at all. I don't feel like we have equal value in this marriage. You know, this is how I'm feeling." And so, in order for— Yes, and in order for— for us to move forward, if you don't do X, Y, and Z, then these are the steps that I'm going to need to make this work for the short term. Yes, for the short term, absolutely.

Do you guys have kids?

No, we have one kid.

Yeah.

Okay, how old?

How old the kid is? He's one.

Okay. Did that change anything for you guys in the marriage?

Uh, yeah, it did, because now when he spends on the kids, I can't say anything because it's for the kids.

For the 1-year-old? What does the 1-year-old need?

Yeah, other than formula and diapers, $300 worth of toys.

Okay, but you can say something, Olivia. This is your money too. Just because the— just because the purchase was designated to another person, it's your money. This is your money that he's spending too. It's y'all's money. I mean, is what I'm trying to say, like "Hey, you have as much say in what is going on with this." And so, yeah, i mean, at that point, if you lay out your heart— and again, we're being a little bit, probably, like hardcore, because i wanna— i want you to fight for you. But you can do this with a lot of, you know, calmness and humility and all of it, but yet, be stern in what you're needing, 'cause it's— That's survival is what you're talking about.

Right.

And this is a solvable problem. 'Cause if you're high income, you guys could be debt-free in 12 to 18 months. So this is not a lifetime of sacrifice, if that's what he's thinking. It's, hey, we gotta reset here. We don't have any financial foundation. We are at risk all over. We got payments up to our eyeballs while making almost $300,000. We should be doing better than we are. And if he can't see that, again, to Rachel's point, you're not gonna change him. And at that point, you need to decide what you're gonna do. Yeah, but I would not just be putting up with this going, well, he's just a stubborn guy, he has a preference to make us broke forever. It's not like he prefers Thai and you like Mexican. This is far beyond that.

Or he saw, you know, I try to be—

I don't want to be the kind of wife that's like, oh, you can't do this, you can't do that, you can't stand on that.

Olivia, you're not, you're not, you're not. It's not like you guys have all this cash sitting around and he wants to go buy a Ninja Slushie on Amazon and you're like, you can't buy that. That's stupid. Like, this is, this is paying bills. This is keeping you guys afloat that you're not in the negative in your checking account. So to be at a 10, that is okay, Olivia, that this, it calls for a 10. That is not you nagging. That's you having money.

Yeah.

The fact that you guys make $300 grand and you're still going into debt every month. That's a problem.

And Olivia, that it, you guys may wanna go see a marriage therapist because the fact that that's even a thought within you, I, needs to be probably worked out. And that, I'm not saying that to shame you. I'm just saying like what we're hearing, the language around your marriage and how he needs to be treated. It sounds like you're tiptoeing when he needs to, he needs to, he needs to get it, George, you know?

Man up.

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Next up, we have John in New York City. Hi John, welcome to the show.

Hello, how are you?

Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

Um, I'm kind of curious if I'm about to commit financial suicide. I, um, I've been following the Baby Steps for a while and I am looking at changing jobs, and I've been at this company for a very long time, but, uh, it's gotten to a point where I'm super frustrated and don't want to be here anymore.

What's a long time? How long you been there?

Uh, coming up on 20 years next year.

What do you do?

19 and a half years. I work in manufacturing.

Okay. And you want to jump ship to what?

Um, working on boats, like, like completely different mechanics. Yes.

Okay. And do you have the skills to do that, or would that require some licensing, some education?

So I have, um, I have a job offer. Wow. A company that is willing to train.

Great. What are they going to pay?

But it's a, uh, it's a, it's a big pay cut for me.

Okay.

So I'm currently making about $135,000. Um, this new job would be about $48,000.

Okay.

Are you single?

I have a fiancée.

Okay. What does the fiancée think about this?

Um, she's kind of down for, for whatever I'm down for. I'm the, I'm the breadwinner of the house and I need to, you know, keep things afloat.

What does she make?

So, um, she doesn't make very much. She makes about $15,000 a year.

What does she do?

Uh, she's actually on disability.

Okay.

So for the foreseeable future, $15K is the ceiling?

Yes.

Okay. When are you guys getting married?

I'm not sure about that.

Okay. How old are you guys?

Haven't set a date. I am 44. She's 52.

44 and 52. Okay.

And what's your financial situation? Do you have any savings? How much debt do you have?

Yeah. So like I said, I've been following the Baby Steps for a while and now I'm kind of struggling with the other side of actually being okay with spending some money. So, uh, I managed to save up. I got about $550,000 in the 401, um, that's split between traditional and Roth. Um, I got about $25,000 in the stock market, about $30,000 in a high-yield savings account, and about $10,000 in my working checking and savings account.

And no debt.

Um, I owe $57,000 on my house, which is worth Had a realtor come out. She said we would list it between $350,000 and $375,000.

Nice. Okay, no consumer debt. So you're in really good shape on that side. Where is this job going to be? Do you have to relocate?

Yeah, so it's actually down in the Bahamas. Wow!

So this is like a life change.

Yeah, this is a complete life change.

Okay.

I'm unaware of the cost of living in the Bahamas. Is it more or less than New York?

So that's actually— there's a shared living arrangement with this company, and I would have the potential to stay there and not have to pay rent. Um, fiancée is welcome as well. However, it's shared living and I'm not really—

what does that mean? Yeah, like you're in-house with other people?

Yeah, so it's basically a 2-bedroom apartment and there's 2 of the employees live within that apartment. So you have your own bedroom, your own bathroom, but you share a living room and kitchen.

Okay, maybe doing that while you're still engaged. Once you guys get married, probably not, right?

Right, that's, that's the idea.

Yeah, so what—

I wouldn't be comfortable with that.

Yeah, that's fair, that's fair. Okay, so have you figured out cost of living down there, how much it would take you to pay rent and everything a month?

Uh, yeah, roughly I'm thinking probably around $3,000 a month.

Okay.

Um, so what you make basically will for the most part be going towards living, and you may get, I don't know, a couple hundred bucks or $1,000 extra a month because after taxes, if you're making $48,000 gross, right? I'm like, I don't know what the Bahamas tax—

I mean, yeah, but if you're making $48,000 gross, you're going to be probably netting around $3,000.

Yeah, so they only pay, um, an assurity bond, which is like 3.5%.

Okay, so it's not as much.

I would also still be concerned about potential, um, US income tax, whatever that might be. But I believe—

Because you're not going to be a citizen there?

And you don't have to pay it.

Okay. Correct. Yeah. Man. Okay.

Well—

There is also, I am a disabled veteran.

Okay.

And I do have substantial income from that as well.

Okay.

That would be equal to, that's $4,500 a month.

Oh. Well, you buried the lead there. That really helps us out here with the expenses. We were scared you were running it up to the line. But if you have that kind of margin—

I'd say ahoy!

Sayonara!

I don't know what they say in the Bahamas.

Captain John!

I mean, it sounds like a fun adventure if your fiancée is on board and it's not going to destroy your relationships. Even if you did this for a couple of years.

I was going to say, yeah.

You've got some wiggle room to do this and then go, "Oh, that was fun.

Alright." I think you'd be fine. Yeah, again, long-term, I don't know if that's what you want to do. But the great thing is you've set yourself up well that your investments are going to continue to grow. You're gonna be able to live well within what you are making, probably, hopefully, maybe still investing. I don't know how that works with taxes and I don't know, but kind of figuring that out. And yeah, and then maybe you look up in 5 years, 6 years, you're like, you know what, I could probably go get a job in manufacturing again for $90,000, different company, less stress, and keep moving. And then you're gonna get some equity from your home when you sell it. To do this move.

You'd walk away with maybe $300 grand right there. You could just invest that.

Just leave that alone, bro. For the time being. And yeah, I mean, you'll come out for sure over a million-dollar net worth, John, by the time this is all said and done.

Yeah, I mean, I'm sitting at $950,000 right now and I, maybe that's part of the block, right? Is continuing to move the goalpost and when is enough enough, right? That's kind of what I'm struggling with.

I'm just wondering, is there an alternative where you go do a different job that you enjoy and the boat stuff is still a really fun hobby maybe it's a side hustle versus jumping ship, pun intended.

I would say that. But if it was, it'd be different. He's working on the, I don't know, harbor in New York versus the Bahamas, you know?

Yeah.

I mean, it sounds enticing.

It's— well, it just sounds like a different life. Like, it's almost like you're just itching to get a different lifestyle, too.

And it doesn't sound like this is a permanent pay cut. The goal would be, how do I get back to making, you know, close to six figures or more? While doing something I enjoy.

If you came back, though, but would you be okay with him on a Bahamian island?

Well, what's the upside there? Is there room to grow there?

But I hate to say it.

She's like, "Does it matter?" It doesn't matter. Rachel's gonna do it for free.

At this point, you got $1 million sitting in the bank. You live off of what you're making. I mean, I don't know. Do you have kids, John?

No.

I mean—

She has 3 that are out of the house.

Okay.

Okay.

I mean, it sounds like a fun adventure. To me, there's a low-fail scenario.

It doesn't bother me.

Knowing that this may not be a forever plan.

Why do you keep saying that?

I'm just wondering, is he going to be 68 working on boats in the Bahamas?

He might be.

He might be.

What do you think, John?

The ultimate goal would be to own my own boat and sail it around the world, or at least, you know, island hop and cruise.

Now we're talking.

Now, all right.

That's some vision right there.

That's what you can invite me and George on. We'll bring our spouses.

You can thank Rachel for her great advice. It'll be a super yacht.

Okay, so that's great. I mean, in a sense of having— there is an external goal, right? So, you're not just sitting idle. Like, there's something you're still working towards, which is your point, George, of like, how can we be growing, working towards something? And the boat thing is great. And you'll have plenty of margin in your budget with what you're getting from the military and what you're making. To make that a goal to, yeah, save up for the boat and do charters. And I think it's great.

Congratulations, John.

All right.

Well, put in your 2 weeks.

Thanks. I'm about to go to HR.

Ah, see? All right. Good luck, George. That's what scares me. You know, we have fun and we get to say whatever we want. And John has to go meet with HR to go and actually take the advice.

And then he's got to tell me, Rachel Cruze told me.

I do.

I stand by that.

But I do, I stand by it.

But it's a good reminder, you don't have to do work that you hate just because it's good money.

That's right. Absolutely. And you don't have to go to the Bahamas to find a great life. To your point, he could have found a totally different manufacturing job. Yes. But it sounded like this was a dream of his for a long time. He's single. I wrote down, what was his age? 40?

44.

44.

Fiancée's 52.

You know, and there's not much tying them down.

So it's like, you know, If not now, then when? You know, he's still got the energy to, to do that.

I think it's fun.

Send us some pics, Frank.

I could do it.

I want to see you working on this boat in the Bahamas.

I know, beautiful water. Oh, enjoy it. You worked hard. You got— yeah, you got plenty of money. You're going to be fine.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with George Campbell. All right, we're gonna go to the phones and in Jackson, Tennessee. We have Ron on the line. Hi Ron, welcome to the show.

Hi Rachel and George, hope you guys are doing well. I have a quick question. Have you guys ever seen or heard of a store offering a significant discount if you finance as opposed to pay cash, even if it's 0%?

What kind of store are we talking?

Furniture. Okay, so just to make, just to make the numbers round, if I, my wife and I went to the store, found a nice piece of furniture we wanted let's just say the numbers was $1,000, right? Offer to write them a check. And they say, no, we don't want your $1,000 today. We'll get, let us pay, let us pay $800 and do it over 12 months. Have you ever seen that?

And again, I'm not at, yeah, I'm not asking about this.

If this is debt, can I free up cash flow? That's not the question. It's my business sense is going off as people don't offer 20% discounts for nothing. And so I'm wondering what is the incentive for me to do something like that?

They have the data that shows how much they're going to make in interest charges when and that person can't pay it off in the promotional period. And so they're making their bets that they're gonna make more than the 20% discount they're giving you off of the debt they're gonna sell you.

And they probably will because what they end up doing is putting, it's almost like a 90-day same as cash kind of scheme, right? So you go and if someone that can't just sit there and write an $800 check and they take this deal, then, or the $1,000 to take the $800, Yeah, their likelihood of them at some point getting behind on the payments. And if they miss one payment, then it's all back interest, all back fees. I mean, they make so much money off of those kind of deals.

Now, is this one particular store or are you seeing this at every single furniture store you walk into?

Just one particular store. I mean, we do not buy furniture very, very often. I think the last time we actually went into a store and bought furniture was years ago.

Okay. Well, what I would do is I would wave that amount of cash in their face and say, hey, I have $800 cash here. If you don't like it, I'm I'm walking down to the next store. That's it. And just walk away.

Yeah, I literally went into them and said, hey, if I do this— I hate doing this, I've never dealt with finance companies in my life, and I know you guys have, and that's why I'm calling. I literally said, hey, if I do this, the very first opportunity to get this balance to zero, here's the check for it. And they said, okay, we'll still do the discount anyway. So I'm just really confused, that's all.

Yeah, I mean, it's just a system.

This happens at car dealerships too. They'll say, here's the price, and you find— they find out you're paying cash and go, oh no, no, that price was only for financing, because they make more with the financing. They get kickbacks, they're going to make money off the interest. And so I just don't deal with places that— even at 0%, I don't deal with places that don't have integrity. I say, here's the price, that's what I'm paying.

Because if you go and read the fine print of what you're about to sign up for, I guarantee you that it says there will be a, it's zero interest if you pay on time. If you don't pay on time and you miss something or they don't get the check in on time or doesn't clear their system, then it's all back. And the interest sometimes on those, George, is more than credit cards.

Oh, it's insane.

30%, I mean, it's just wild. So, no, they know what they're doing.

And what they're really doing is they're just inflating the cash price. They're not actually discounting it. They're just inflating the cash price to where the financing price looks so much better that everyone's going to go, oh, well, why wouldn't we finance? So it's all psychological. It's just mind games they're playing.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

So I, again, I never deal with this stuff. I know you guys do, and I appreciate you shedding the light on this.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Yep.

And you know what I always worry about, George, is you, some people try to take the deal to get the $200 thinking they won, thinking they won. And then, I mean, y'all, these companies, sometimes they come back and like, well, it didn't clear our system. Within that 24-hour pay period, it happened.

And if you didn't read the fine print, you have to pay by this certain date before the terms are up.

And what you sign up for, you, yep. And so if you play with snakes, you get bit. So listen, just stay away from that.

I just played this game buying a car and they were like, well, here's the price. And I was like, I'm not paying these random stuff you threw on there. And so I left and went to a different dealership that treated me with fairness and integrity. It's a beautiful thing. Here's the price we agreed on. I'll write you a check for that amount.

That's right. That's one thing of not being emotional when you're buying something, something as small as a chair at a furniture store or a house, right? Like, we get so invested, or a car, in this one particular thing. I can only have this, this right in front of me. And then you lose all negotiating power and the power to walk away and find a better deal. And so you just can't get emotional about this stuff.

And I'm personally just not a fan of a lot of these furniture stores because the margin is high. The salespeople can be slimy. So what I— here's what I do.

Don't prey on people that can't afford it either.

Yeah, do your research. Take that exact couch, take a picture of it, get the tag, research You can even upload a picture of the couch to Google and it will show you similar couches at a cheaper price. So do your research, people. Don't just walk in and get hosed by a salesperson with these financing deals. "Oh, it's only today. It's only good for today only." I'm sure it is, bud. I'm sure it is.

All right, let's go to Lynn in Knoxville, Tennessee. Hi, Lynn. Welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. My question is, I have about $50,000 saved up for a down payment. On a house, but I'm not planning on buying a house right now, it would be at least 2 years. But it could be, but not necessarily, less than your 4- to 5-year recommended timeline for putting money in the market.

So 2 years is kind of your window for— you want to buy in, let's say, 2028?

Um, possibly. It kind of honestly depends on my relationship status at the time because I would either need significantly more savings or to be married for, uh, the down payment to make sense and be within your parameters, unless I want to get a little tiny fixer-upper.

Got it. So 2 years from now to afford something on your own with your own savings would be really tough, but you're sort of hoping that you'll be married with 2 incomes by then?

Yeah, in a perfect world, that'd be great.

Is there someone special in your life right now?

No, that's why I say at least 2 years, but maybe less than 5.

Well, $50,000, that's a lot. How long did it take you to save that?

Um, about the last 5 years.

OK, good for you.

So you can sock away another $10,000, $15,000 a year at this point?

Mm-hmm.

Um, maybe not quite that much because I did open a Roth IRA. And start maxing that out.

You're sounding like an eligible, eligible bachelorette.

Well done. So would I invest this money knowing that it could be 2, even 3 years? I personally wouldn't. I would store it in a high-yield savings account and just let it grow at, you know, 3.5% instead of what could happen in the market. Because here's what inevitably will happen, because this is life: you'll go, yay, time to buy a house, and the market will be down 15% for no reason. And now you've lost money, quote-unquote, on paper. And it's going to be heartbreaking. The more time you have, the higher the chances that your money will make more money. That the balance will be higher than when you started.

So, if it takes me 6 or 7 years, I shouldn't get upset about the amount I could have made because it's better to have the money flexible when it's not a guaranteed long-term timeline.

Now, if you told me for sure I'm not going to buy a house for the next 5 years, I'd say, all right, let's invest it, let's let it ride. But it sounds like there's just a lot of variables right now in your life that you're unsure of.

Yeah. How old are you, Lynn?

29.

29. Okay. Do you see yourself in that area for a while where you are?

Um, highly likely, but not 100%.

Okay. Yeah, I'd probably just— I'd probably lay low for a year or two. And if you look up maybe in a year or two and you're like, some— nothing really has moved about my situation, then maybe invest, right? Because there's nothing looming. But I probably would just give yourself a beat.

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Today's question comes from Shawna in Indiana. I've been listening to the show for years and have never heard anyone mention cell phone debt. My husband and I were reviewing our bill recently and realized that between the two of us, we owe $1,000 on our phones that we bought 2 years "Should we add this debt to our snowball?" Juicy. This is a newer thing because everybody's just weaving their phone price into the plans and the companies love it.

They do. Well, and prices of phones have gone up.

It's the price of a laptop now. So much.

It's crazy.

Because you literally have a laptop in your hand.

It's true.

Oof.

As do I.

So is this debt? Unfortunately, yes. It is a necessary payment you have to make. For a previous decision and try not paying it. That will tell you a lot about if it's a debt or not. What happens if I stop paying? Well, it will go to collections. You could get sued. I don't know if they're repoing phones yet, but that's probably the near future.

Come get it!

Apple's now leasing phones. I don't know if you saw this. It's just like anything else now. Lease your car. Lease your phones. Never own anything.

And remember, they're doing this not out of the goodness of their heart. They always find a way that they are going to make more money money doing what they need to do. So, just as the consumer, don't fall for it.

It says, "Should we add this to our debt snowball?" Yes.

Yes. I would.

Pay it off. And then pay cash next time.

Alright, let's go to Sam in Washington, D.C. Hi, Sam! Welcome to the show!

Hi!

Hello! How can we help today?

Well, I've been listening for a few weeks now and trying to get started. And I have had historically the high-yield interest savings account as one of the accounts we've had. So I have that. And we don't have a lot in there. My husband and I are both IT support, as in the industry of IT support. Total income is around $200,000 a year. But I went into the EveryDollar app and put in our stuff for August, and it's showing us that we have more payments than we have income. Wow. How much debt do you guys have? Uh, just under $325,000, not including the house.

Wow.

Student loans. What What is the— what are the debts?

About a third of it is my student loans.

Okay, so will you list out your debts for us?

Uh, there's a lot of them.

Um, you can give us the big chunks. Yeah, okay.

This much is in credit card debt, car debt, personal loans.

We have 2 cars, about $60,000 total.

Okay.

Um, we, I, we got— we've made a lot of bad, bad choices.

That's okay.

Um, we get talked into buying things.

Okay. Timeshare?

We could probably have put up— oh God, we got out of timeshares years ago.

Okay, who's talking you into this?

Salespeople, go figure.

You need to stop talking to people. That would solve a lot of this.

Okay, there's a lot of credit card debt, Sam?

Yeah, we do have credit card debt, um, but we also have some home improvement debt as well, so The last, latest one was a roof that is insured for 50 years and is good for 100.

Are you trying to sell me on a new roof?

Oh my God.

You're leading with the features of this roof. What did it cost you?

$50,000.

Okay. I won't be around in 100 years, so I could care less about this warranty. But okay, it cost you 50 grand for a new roof. So we definitely got ripped there. That's an insane amount.

Yep.

On a roof.

Oh, and we have new HVAC from 3 years ago that we— we have an attorney involved with that.

Um, but you owe on that as well?

We do owe on that, and the company that sold it to us oversold and didn't install properly, and the thing isn't working.

And I'm gonna be honest with you, so far it sounds like your debt has been everyone else's problem. You were talked into it. I got scammed. I was told this. If you want to get out of this thing, the first step is to realize it's not all your fault, but it's your responsibility.

Yes. No, I can't— we completely understand that.

Okay, so I want to know how you guys have been month to month now, because if you plugged in all your numbers and I go, gosh, we are in the red— how deep in the red are you?

$800.

$800. Okay, where has that been coming from the, the past couple of months? I mean, if the payments have been consistent, where— and you guys have been short $800, are you going deeper into debt, or do you have savings that you're taking from to cover that $800?

No, we don't have savings, um, because every time we try to start, something happens.

Okay.

And it gets drained. So, um, I just don't know how y'all been living.

So are you using the credit cards to cover any gaps?

Uh, we don't have gas, we have two electric vehicles.

No, I was saying to cover the gap of like $800 that you need, you're using credit cards to fund that?

Uh, for some of it, yes, I believe. Yeah, that's where all the credit card debt is ending up from.

Okay, okay.

Has your husband looked at this stuff too? Have you guys sat down and looked at the budget together? Or is this just you so far?

Yeah, no, it's, it's, we both of us are tired of paycheck to paycheck and not being— I get more anxiety over it than he does, but, um, he does get frustrated.

Okay, well, I'm glad you called, Sam, because yeah, we're going to be able to really just walk you down what we call the Baby Steps and, and you're gonna have to, in order to make this work, is it's gonna have to be a complete 180 of what you guys have been doing, how you guys have been making decisions, buying things, how you've not been budgeting, how, you know what I mean? Everything you've been doing, you're pretty much gonna just do the opposite. And so the fastest way to do it is that first step is $1,000, and you keep it, yep, in that high-yield savings account, and don't touch it. Watch it. And then you're gonna be looking at a mountain of debt. And as you list it out smallest to largest, and you said we have a lot of debt, so if it's multiple credit cards, multiple student loans, I mean, like literally write them all individually out and actually look at it and say, okay, this is where all of our money is going. And it's probably gonna be pretty shocking. You may have already done that 'cause you guys said you plugged in your income to EveryDollar.

And then from there, you're gonna have to figure out, okay, we're gonna be working extra. We're gonna be selling some stuff to get some cash in fast. We're gonna cut our lifestyle. And instead of, you know, acting like you make $200, we're gonna act like we make $80. We're gonna live on nothing, nothing, in order to get this margin up to start knocking out this debt. But the great thing is too, Sam, is as you guys start paying it off, paying off some of these debts, it's gonna free up those monthly payments. So it's gonna cause you to have more and more margin as you go down the debt snowball. To pay it off. But yeah, I mean, as you're looking at it, it's gonna be a bit.

And I would look at getting rid of these cars just to give you a quick win.

Yes, yes.

Especially if you're not underwater on them, if you can profit off of them and use that cash to buy yourself some cheap cars, $5,000 each, that's going to be your ticket out. Because then you've got $265,000 left. And if you threw like, let's say you take home $12,000 making $200K, take home $12,000 a month. If you can throw $7K at the debt, you're done in 3 years.

—yep.

So that's the napkin math. And now we now have to reverse engineer and go, okay, we need to come up with $7,000 and live off $5,000.

And there's a good chance $1,000 of that is in the car payments, right? So if you get rid of that, that's gonna free up cash immediately. And then, yeah, looking at your lifestyle. But, but that's it. And, and, and Sam, what's wild is that this is so doable. And what's crazy too, when we see people do this, especially as they are working their way out of debt, and when it's over a 24-month period Some people do it, you know, 18 to 24 months. But when you're looking at a 3-year journey here, it's amazing the amount of people that get raises in this time. They find some side hustle.

They get focused. They start working harder. They get the promotion. It's crazy.

So your income's hopefully gonna be increasing throughout this process too, which is gonna help bring extra margin. But it's gonna take, it's gonna feel like whiplash of how you guys have been functioning with money. But you know what? You want the opposite result. You're tired of where you are, and so that means there's gonna have to be some changes, and it may be uncomfortable for a bit, but you're gonna start to have this normalcy of what this looks like to have control of your money.

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One of the biggest mistakes that people make is thinking that they can skip out on having a will because they're too too healthy, or they just don't feel like they own enough to make it worth it. But listen, a will helps protect your family. It gives you clear instructions and can keep your loved ones from having to guess what you wanted during a difficult time. So, if you are ready to create one, go to mamabearlegal— mamabearlegal.com. And if you don't know where to start, text "quiz" to 33789, and we'll help you figure out what's best for your situation. But again, if you want to You want to create a will, go to mamabearlegal.com. Yeah, Mama Bear Legal Forms, they're amazing. I always throw in forms in there. That's why the website at first I was like, oh no, I got tripped up.

They're shortening the name to make it a little simpler for us to type in.

I appreciate that. But they're great, easy, state-specific wills, you guys. It does not take long. And I'm telling you, it is so worth it. Everyone, everyone needs a will.

If you listen to the show long enough, you know the heartbreak that happens when someone didn't have a will, didn't update the will. Yes. And the family's left grieving while picking up the pieces and it causes a additional nightmare. Yes, please get it done.

And we'll throw in life insurance. If you have a family, if someone's dependent upon your income, or if you're a stay-at-home mom, life insurance, guys.

My first question, I find out someone passes, did they have life insurance? And they say no, my heart sinks because then the road ahead is going to be so much more difficult.

Yes. So yeah, you can go to Zander Insurance for term life.

Um, we'll just throw it all out there, George, but it is all things, it's important, the adulting package.

It is. So please, please Get it. All right, let's go to Nick in Dallas, Texas. Hi Nick, welcome to the show.

Hi Rachel and George, thank you so much for taking my call. I really appreciate it. Huge fan of what you guys are doing and you guys have my dream job. But anyways, I am calling in, bottom line up front, not— my wife and I are not super sure what we should do with our house. We want to sell it. A little bit of context, we live outside of Dallas, Texas. We've been in the home for— since February 2025. We're planning to be in the home longer than we are, but life happens. Um, we're planning to move to Atlanta, Georgia to be closer to family. Fortunately, we have the house paid off. I understand that you guys do not recommend— yes, I understand you guys do not recommend doing long-term, uh, long-distance rentals, and we don't want— we don't want to do that either. However, we live in a new construction community. Our home's been listed for coming up on 2 months. We've had zero interest, and, uh, we want to I can explain more of why I want to go to Atlanta, but I'll pause there. Looking forward to your guys' recommendation.

Have you talked to your agent as to why there's been zero interest in 60 days? Yes, yes, so—

What do they think? Living in a new construction— Yeah, so living in a new construction community, they can, the houses that are going up right across the street from us are able to do about like a $30,000 incentive that we just can't compete with, so—

So people would rather build basically custom and have more options at a lower price.

Exactly, exactly. How long will the development be in process?

Do you know how many more— is it how many more lots they need to build out in that area?

Well, they're, they're developing a new phase just a stone's throw away from us, so I mean, it'll be years before they're completely done building new homes.

But there's still people who want a house now and don't want to go through that process and don't have the timeline to wait for a new build. Yeah, so I don't buy that as a full excuse of just like, well, they're still building homes, so people don't want mine. Is it priced too high? I mean, that's realistically for the current market, which is obviously cooled a lot.

Yes, I mean, it's definitely priced fair. We bought the home at $323,000 and we listed it initially at $314,900. So I thought we priced it fair, but we got zero, zero zero interest, and that's like definitely runs, runs right with some of the comps. I mean, but to mention though, there aren't, there are no resale homes that have sold in the past 90 days, you know, and it's hard to find good comps because there's not a lot of action out there. Exactly, exactly. Man, that is tough.

When do you guys have to make this move? What's the urgency?

So urgency is we've got two, two young kids. We've got a daughter who's a year and 4 months old and a special needs son who's 4 months old. So we're just really itching to be in Atlanta to be closer to family who can help there. So that's— And the house is paid for? Yes, ma'am.

Okay. So what I probably would do, Nick, is— 'Cause I mean, how much do you guys make a year?

Close to— Depending on the commission, anywhere in between $175,000 and $200,000.

Okay, 'cause what I would do is I would go ahead and go to Atlanta, and I would just, I would rent there for a year. Go sign a year contract, and it's gonna not be fun because you went from owning to renting. It's gonna feel like a little bit of a step back, but I would give yourself some time and not be rushed on this house, 'cause you don't have to be urgent. Like, it's not like you're trying to balance two mortgages, and you're like, we can't afford both mortgages, so we gotta sell one quick. Time is on your side, which is an amazing thing. Amazing thing. That's part of why not having debt, that it allows that time margin, which actually allows you to probably get a better deal on this house. So I would go to Atlanta and I would rent somewhere for a year, keep the house up. I would look at one of our trusted real estate agents, not saying that yours isn't great, but I know ours in the program, like we interview them and make sure that they are high quality. And I would look and maybe get a different option with a realtor.

And I would be patient and I would sell this house. So I think eventually it will sell. You don't have to sell it in 60 days. You don't have to sell it in 90 days. So I would take my time with it and then reevaluate. Maybe if it's been, you should be able to sell it. So I'm like, I don't even want to put it out there that it'll be 9 months and it won't sell because I really do think, yeah, eventually it will. I just don't want you to be in a rush to do it.

Right.

So I would just budget for the, you know, insurance, taxes, some utilities to keep this thing float while you guys move— make this move to Atlanta. But you've put yourself in a position where you have that option, which is amazing. So you look back on this and it'll just be like an annoying thing you guys had to deal with during a hard time in life. But I like the idea of not making it a fire sale and just knocking down the price until it's at $275,000. And now you're really— you're eating a lot of this cost through fees and selling it for less than you paid for it, right? Okay, so it's just a— it's a harsh timing of just— you guys bought where things were expensive and the market cooled during the last year, and especially in Dallas where there's just so— there's, you know, not a ton of demand. People want to buy homes, but there's not a lot at the price they want it. And so I would be trying to figure out why are homes selling that are selling in my area, and how can I start to match that to get this thing to move?

Okay, that makes sense. Great. I'm a little surprised that you guys went with the long-distance rental, but hey, I'll take it.

Well, I wouldn't, I wouldn't rent it out personally. Personally.

No, because you're gonna eventually want to—

I'm saying you just sit on it.

Oh, just hold. Okay, so don't— okay, don't rent it out. Sorry, Rachel, I thought that—

I thought that— oh, sorry.

No, just sit on it.

She was saying go rent in Atlanta for you. In Atlanta? Yeah.

Okay. Okay. Yes. Okay, gotcha. Have the house sit.

Um, it's gonna be harder to sell when you got a tenant in there too. Yeah, so that's just gonna slow things down. Yeah.

And if you guys aren't coming back to Dallas anytime soon, because it sounds like family's in Atlanta. No, I wouldn't wanna be tied to Dallas. It's like, just sell the house, be done, take the equity, and go buy something great in Atlanta once it sells. So yeah, no, do not, do not rent it out. If you need to change real estate agents just to get another flavor in there, do that. I would—

Get a second opinion.

Yep, I would rent in Atlanta until this house sells and then use that equity and then any other cash you guys have to buy, to buy something permanent in Atlanta. 'Cause it sounds like that's where where you guys want to be. I heard a stat, George, and I hate to throw it out 'cause I need to check, but it was something around like the idea that Dallas-Fort Worth had more new homes being built than the whole state of California.

That is wild. 'Cause of how hard it is to get anything built in California with the regulations.

Mostly that, yes, but also— In Texas, it's like, throw 'em up. It's just like, yeah, it's just booming. I mean, people are, houses are growing up everywhere there. It's pretty wild.

We're seeing that in Nashville in like the downtown area. They threw up all these apartments and condos Gosh, it's crazy. There's just too much supply. It's a lot.

It's a lot. So yep, in those, in those areas, you will feel a little settling back to normalcy. Um, but it is still, it's a wild market out there. But yeah, Nick, I hope that, I hope that helps. I hope it gets sold quick for you guys. Um, but yeah, I, I would make that move with those two kids being close to family. Go rent somewhere.

If you want to free up margin in your budget, one of the first things you should do is take a hard look at your monthly bills, because every dollar you overpay is another dollar you don't have for reaching your financial goals. And overpaying for your phone bill? Well, that makes zero sense, and it's why I recommend Boost Mobile. Their unlimited plan is just $25 a month forever. No contracts, no hidden fees, no surprise price hikes. If you already have a phone you love, you can keep it and keep your number when you switch. And if you're skeptical, Boost Mobile offers a 30-day money-back guarantee so you can try it risk-free. Listen, your phone bill should fit your budget, not the other way around. Reaching your financial goals is easier when you can pay less for the same service. Switching to Boost Mobile now is just a smart money move. Go to boostmobile.com/ramsey and make the switch today. That's boostmobile.com/ramsey.

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If you enjoy this show and it's helped you, then will you please do us a favor and share it with your friends, with your family? Subscribe, leave a comment. Just engage, because it is one of the best ways to get the word out about the show. And because we want to see people win with their money. We want to help them.

And if you're listening, I assume you enjoy it. Otherwise, this is like a hate watch for you, which is strange. Yeah. But people do it.

Might be. Share with your mortal enemies.

You know, share with those who need it the most.

That's right. That's right. All right, let's go to Claire in Seattle, Washington. Hi, Claire. Welcome to the show.

Hi. I am so excited to be on here. Unfortunately, not under these circumstances. Oh, no. So my question is, should we disinherit our son completely? And the circumstances— we are the cautionary tale to not do too much or give too much to your kids. So we're, we're retired, we have worked hard all our lives, and, um, my son got a divorce about 5 years ago and quit his job. He had addiction issues and and needed, you know, to get those under control and lose weight and do all that. And then he went to school, and we supported him through all of those emotionally, financially. He had a daughter as well, supported him through all of that. Never did get a job, and we spent a lot of money through all of that. And like, probably close— over— close and over to 3/4 of a million dollars. And we asked him, we told him that it was time to get a job, and he quit talking to us and also kept his daughter away, who we raised through a lot of that. Oh, Claire, I'm so sorry. So we're kind of all done because we just cut him off.

We just said it's time, you know, it's time. So, and he lives in our carriage house above our garage And hard to cut him off at that point when he's 50 feet away from you. Wait, what? I know. Yeah, he lives above our garage, so he gets— he's gotten free rent, free everything. And, you know, it's like, it's, it's bad. And yes, we take full responsibility for that, you know.

Well, no, yeah, I mean, no, it's not your fault. He, he did make decisions. Yes, were you guys still giving money? Yeah, but also you were not forcing him to make these decisions, or, or lack thereof. That was not you, that was him. That was him. Yes.

I mean, we told him that, you know, he turned this into this situation that was supposed to like get him started to— Yes.

You know, so how long ago did, did you guys cut him off? About probably 5 weeks ago. Okay, so it is fairly new. And then what's going to be happening with the living situation?

Situation? Well, he has a fiancée, and we told him he had until the end of the year or until he got married to be done with that.

Okay, so likely it's going to be the end of the year. I'm assuming he's not going to be married in the next couple of months? No, unfortunately. So December 31st is his last day living in the carriage house? Is that clear to him? Possibly.

That is clear to him. In fact, we're writing up an agreement to that fact.

Okay. And he's not working right now still?

He's looking for a job because he has no money. Yep. Yeah. Well, he did get money from—

And his fiancée is living in the carriage house too? No, no, no, no.

She's living in her own house. Okay. Yeah. Woof.

Well, the positive is that, yeah, when you cut off the source of course, you don't have many options but to go and find a job to work, right? So I mean, you— that was— that is the right move. And for him, is he in— is he in recovery? Has he been sober, or what's his—

Yes, he's been sober, sober for probably 4 years now. Oh good.

Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah.

So you've already cut him off now, but you're saying for the trust, once you guys pass, you're saying, right, should we disinherit everything from— to him?

Well, because he hasn't had a job, so, you know, and then he has to keep a job, so he has to prove himself to keep a job, not just have a job, get a job, but he has to keep a job. And he hasn't been financially responsible with money he's had. And so it's like there, you know, that creates a pattern as well because he's been living the life of Riley.

I mean Well, you're not obligated to leave anything to anyone. You can give it all to a charity if you so choose.

But also, to your point earlier, Claire, he is— he was living the life that was, you know, given to him. So I do wonder, on his own merits, if you look up in a year, that this could have been the best thing that's ever happened to him. Yes.

And, um, and you see, I know I My gut is I would not do a full disinheritance. Yeah. What I would do is a structured trust that has all kinds of distributions and clauses tied to sobriety and work and education. All of those things you can set up within the trust where he's not getting a dime unless XYZ are true.

Yeah. And the executor of the trust can make sure that these things are, the obligations are hit in order for him to to get this money, right? And this is all—

never all at once. It's, hey, at this age or at this, you know, milestone, I mean, how much—

how much will you guys, uh, be leaving, Claire? Um, like, assets-wise, like, net worth-wise, if the house is sold and all that?

Over $20 million. Okay.

How many kids do you guys have? One. Oh, it's just him? Yeah. Wow. And his daughter. He's okay. Oh my gosh, sorry, in my head I—

so if this doesn't go to him, where would it go as of now? To his daughter. All to the daughter.

And I just see the way it's kind of ruined him. So it's like, I, you know, we were thinking of possibly a lifetime discretionary trust. Which it doesn't, you know, it keeps generational kind of thing.

Have you worked with an estate planning attorney to figure out what's the right one for what you're trying to accomplish?

Yeah, we're kind of in the throes of that right now. Okay. But because it's easier to add somebody versus take them out, but it's like, what do we do?

I like the idea of it being a structured trust for now. And again, you can always change that in the future because that already has a lot of stipulations stipulations before he would get a dime. There's also generational skip, you know, skipping trust to where it would just go to his daughter, your granddaughter. But again, we don't know her future. And so I would still have provisions there. And obviously she's a minor, I'm assuming. So it would be a while till she could access this.

You know, and, and Claire, you could do something in it, a clause that says, you know, for the next, like if something happened to you and your husband in the next 12 months that he doesn't get this money, for 6 years, and he has to establish himself for 6 years before he even sees a little bit of it. You know what I mean? To make sure that there's somewhat of a pattern happening in the positive direction that, again, that where he is today, if $20 million got dumped on him, you're exactly right. It would be horrible for him. It would not be a blessing. So, for him, for the dignity of him and his character, character to live out a certain way before he sees a dime of it, I think is, is very reasonable.

How old is he? He's— he'll be 33 this year, and I'm not excited about his new wife.

Well, that's something else to think about. Exactly. So what makes you not excited about it? It is a, a character thing, a financial thing, that you're not a good—

I think she's—

she might be in it for the, the rainbow, the gold pot at the end of the rainbow. And so that, that worries me.

Well, I wouldn't, I wouldn't worry too much until they actually get married. You know, his, his track record has not been great with, with following through, right? So, but if they get married, I mean, yeah. And, and, and this size of an estate, um, it's going to be cumbersome, it's going to be annoying to have to go back and redo something, but it would be worth it, right? Like if you have to make decisions today— It's a $20 million decision. Yeah, I would push it out and make sure that he can't really get anything until, I don't know, I'm making this up, 40. Just for him, he needs to hold a job. He needs to learn to work. I mean, all of that so that this money doesn't ruin him. And then if he ends up getting married and there's still feelings feelings towards that, you know, if you have some kind of addendum in the estate with that. But an estate attorney should be able to work through some of those hoops. But oh, Claire, I'm so sorry. I know that's such, so heavy to carry. But yeah, call us back if you need us.

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Ramsey.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with George Campbell, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. All right, let's go to Sarah in Los Angeles. Hi Sarah, welcome to the show.

Hi, how you guys doing? We're doing great.

How can we help?

Hi, so I recently got into some money through a settlement from work, and I wanted to see how I go about that with wanting to pay off my mom's house. Um, she owes about $200K, and then trying to afford a house in the expensive neighborhood I live in. Like, how should I go about that?

Oh wow, okay.

Um, what What happened? Um, it was basically just, I'm getting almost about maybe about a million dollars. I honestly can't really talk about that. That's fair.

That's fair. Okay. So yeah, that's fair. Sorry. Um, are you okay? Are you good? Oh yeah. Health-wise and everything?

Okay, perfect. It's been a long time coming. It's been a long time. I actually started listening to your show because I knew this was coming and I've been reading the books and listening for the past 6 months.

Oh wow. Amazing. So you're getting $1 million in a settlement.

Is that going to be taxed or is that all tax-free? Tax-free. Okay. And how much do you have in savings right now? Nothing. Do you have any debt?

I do, about altogether with my car and consumer everything, about $31,000.

$31,000 for you. And then do you rent right now? I do. Okay. And why do you want to pay off mom's house? She's just—

she's done everything for me. I just, you know, I just want her to be stress-free. She's just amazing. I already know her, she's not even gonna want me to, but just as a gift.

So this is just like a nice thing. Is she okay financially otherwise?

Um, kind of. They— yeah, yeah, a little bit, kind of. Not too— they use credit cards and they know they shouldn't, and they've talked about that. Um, so So I think they're fine. They own a house and everything.

But if you pay off this house, is there any chance they would go take a second mortgage because they need help financially? Not at all. Not. Okay. Okay.

Not at all. My mom is so about—

Are you single? Perfect.

You good with money? Good.

That's the only always my caution. Yeah. Yeah. My mom has instilled— she hated that I even opened up credit cards.

She's instilled me not ever doing stuff like that.

She's even ashamed she had to open one up recently because she's against it. So no, she wouldn't.

Do that. Absolutely not. Okay. And you're single, no kids?

Yes. Okay. So you've got $31,000 in debt to pay off, plus we need an emergency fund. So that's a great place to start. Let's put our own mask on first. And how old are you?

Um, I am 36.

Okay. And you want to buy a house in the greater Los Angeles area?

I mean, either that or I'm thinking of moving in 3 years. Do I— I don't know if I should just invest the money in mutual funds, like or keep renting. I, I guess I just don't know my next move. And also, I should say, I do want to pay off my brother— some of my brother's stuff too, as well.

Not a lot, maybe his car.

Just, you know, I, I can't not go without paying his, like, some of his debt off.

Well, see, now I'm wondering— well, now Cousin Jerry, he's wondering why you're not paying off his loans too. And Dad's going, hey, I'd like to buy a truck. And so that's my fear, is that this turns into people coming out of the woodwork knowing that you've got some— you came into some money. So I would just be cautious. I love that you wanna be generous with it, but I also don't wanna enable and cause relational chaos in the family.

Right. I'm, I'm decided I'm keeping it between my brother and my mom, and I've decided that's what, what, who's gonna know, and that's it. I've kept it that way for years. So, yeah.

And, and the way to kind of look at this too, Sarah, just to think about, um, it's almost the same mindset as like a lottery winner, right? And I hate to even say that 'cause I know you went through a lot to, to get this money. I know you didn't just go buy a ticket and win this, but mm-hmm. But the idea that a lump sum is just given to you, you know, when we think about money, money is like a magnifying glass. It makes us more of what we already are and our habits more of what our habits are. It doesn't change us. It makes us more of who we are. And so you are a generous person, which I love. I mean, your natural instinct was to like give this money, some of this money away, right? And so you are a natural generous person. So when $1 million is handed to you, that's gonna be magnified, which is beautiful. Beautiful. But also, if there are bad money habits, you gotta be aware that this money's not gonna fix those. And over time, this money may be gone and the habits still remain.

So you do have to remember to change your behavior. You have to have some absolutes in your life. Like, I'm absolutely not going back into debt. I absolutely will always have a 3 to 6 month emergency fund. I will abs— like, have some absolutes that you fall back on, um, that are different than today. And I— because you don't have money saved and you do have $31,000 in consumer debt. So I don't want those attributes to be magnified with this money. I want the opposite, if that makes sense. Um, yeah, yeah, I agree.

And that's what's funny, because I've been scared of this happening so soon because I'm like, man, I want to get out of the debt on my own and start building a fund before this happens. Because like, I've been doing pretty good with not using my credit cards, listening to you guys. And you know, so I agree, I do this This is something I do want to change, a habit, 100%.

Yes. Well, how much do you make a year in your job?

Um, probably around $90,000.

$90,000, okay.

Um, so yeah, $90,000 to $100,000, about $90,000 to $100,000.

Okay, so what I— I don't know, my instinct right now is I think you're pretty set on helping your mom. Um, so I would be okay. I would— again, I would tell her not to talk about it because just like George said, I feel like people are going to be coming The Woodworks. I would do that. And then I would pay off your debt and get that fully funded emergency fund and a high yield savings. And then the remainder, which may be $700, I almost would park in a high yield savings for like a year. Okay. And just, I don't know.

It sounds like you've got some life changes coming up the next 2 to 3 years from what you mentioned.

I wouldn't buy right now, especially if you're gonna be moving in 3 years. 3 years. And there's a part of me that I would still have a handle on my lifestyle of what I make per year in your job. And again, you're gonna have no debt and you have a fully funded emergency fund, but learning to live off of that 90% of what you make, I think will create and instill some like very disciplined habits. So that way, if you do choose to pull some money out to buy a new car something, there's still that constant rhythm of living within your means. Mm, that makes sense.

That's a good idea.

And if you just park that money— I like that. If you park $700,000 in a high-yield savings account with the current rates, you'd probably net about $2,000 a month just doing that, just letting it sit. Oh, wow. So make sure it's in a high-yield savings account and not a traditional brick-and-mortar bank. And fairwinds.org/ramsey, you can set up a whole Smart Bundle including including that. But I would have wise counsel around you. So if you don't already have these three, you definitely need them. You need a good real estate agent. You need a good CPA for the tax side, because even gifting money to your parents, gifting $200 grand, you got to make sure that you're filling out the right forms, uh, otherwise it's going to go against your estate. And so you may want to be strategic with how you give. And then you also want a good financial advisor. As soon as you're talking about making these big money moves, a lot of zeros on the end, they can help you make sure that you understand what what you're doing while keeping you in the driver's seat. So you're gonna have to build some muscles you don't currently have.

But I feel like the fact you've been researching, I gotta watch this show, it tells me that you are very cautious. You want to be wise with this.

Yeah, and go slow with this, Sarah. You know, we even say if people go through an event, like they lose a loved one and they get life insurance, we say, don't make any major decisions for a year and just sit. 'Cause there's just something emotional about seeing that many zeros in an account that you've never had before, you know? And there's like, there's kind of a part of you that just wants to just settle in and not make any big knee-jerk decisions right now. But getting some of those people in your corner are gonna be smart. But that's awesome, Sarah. I'm so, so happy for you with this.

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We wish that we could get to every call and question here on the show, but if you do have a money question and you want it answered, make sure to check out Ask Ramsey. So this is on our website and it's our free AI tool and it's built and trained on Ramsey principles. So you'll get the answer the same way as if you had called in on the show. And even some of the follow-up questions of getting the right information about your situation to give you the perfect answer. It is there, it's amazing. This is a great tool. So go to ramsaysolutions.com and check it out. And we'll put a link down below if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. All right, let's go to James in Boise. Hi, James, welcome to the show.

Hey, Rachel, George, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely, how can we help? So I have a job working for a hospital making $150K a year. And I have a $47,000 emergency fund and no debt except for a couple hundred thousand left on a house. And God has provided some side hustles where I consult on the side for some hospitals and little hospitals, and most of them pay. And the one— there's always that one. So the one is about 7 months behind and charge 1.5% late fee. Now we're up to about $1,500 a month in late fees. Would you just keep rolling with the late fee Or would you press them for the $87,000 they owe you?

I mean, are they going to pay you anything at this point? What's been the communication?

I, well, I mean, I keep sending invoices. They've, they've been behind before up to maybe $40,000. But, um, you know, I think, I don't know if they're just, you know, using the money. Maybe they get more use out of it, you know, than 1.5% than I'm charging them. But, uh, you know, I think they pay on the squeaky wheel and I'm just collecting late fees.

But they've paid the late fees They have. Okay, so there's a precedence here that they're willing to pay the late fees knowing full well they signed the contract with you saying we agreed to the late fee.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with collecting late fee. It's not quite gotten— okay, they just not built up quite this much debt yet.

Yeah, it's not fun when someone owes you that. I mean, this is a lot of money they owe you. You said $87,000? Yeah. Okay.

Is it a hospital, did you say, or an individual? Hospital. Okay. Are you—

would you be willing to take them to like a small claims court for this?

Well, I mean, I don't think I would have to, but I mean, you definitely would. You wouldn't want to just blow this off. But yeah, so next month—

yeah, I would ask for the full—

collecting 60.

Yeah, I would, I would go and ask for it, and then I think I would be done with business with them because I think it just adds some stress and it makes your, your books all wonky, and it's taking a lot of time on your part to deal with this?

Well, I mean, it doesn't—

I mean, it just tacked on the one point. I mean, if I'm collecting $1,300, next month $1,500 in just late fees.

Well, you're only collecting it on paper until they actually pay. True, true.

And if they do pay, you know, I mean, I imagine they would, so I can press them for some and they'll probably pay. It's just, I don't know, one advantage, it's nice when it gets up there.

But yeah, but it's just a lack of integrity if they're not paying you on time and it's been 7 months. It's not like a mom-and-pop. This is an actual hospital, correct? That's making a lot of money. Yeah, well, so they have the money to pay you. Yes. Okay, I would press them for the full amount and go, hey guys, I just need this final payment, but our relationship here is done. And if there's anything in the contract that stipulates after this many months it goes to small claims court— I don't know what they signed and what you set up with them, but I would enforce whatever they signed.

And you said you feel kind of weird of like, do I just sit here and just like keep collecting late fees? I mean, I guess you could, but I would always have something in the back of my head of like, okay, they owe me, they like, I don't know. I think I would just add it to the tab. Yeah. I think I would, I would ask for the amount and, and be done. And then if they want to start over this whole process and you choose to engage that, then that's one thing. But I'd be having them pay upfront from now on. Yeah. Just for you to have your money. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Let's go to Alex in Minneapolis. Hi, Alex. Welcome Welcome to the show.

Hi Rachel. Hi George. Thanks for taking the call. Absolutely. How can we help? Yeah, so, uh, my wife and I are just starting off with, um, the Baby Steps. We're on step 2 right now. We have $106,000 in debt. Of the $106,000, $34,000 is a car. That car is $12,000 underwater. We want to sell the car and then save up to buy a car with cash. Um, one But we're kind of like unsure on how to do that because it's a secure loan. And so if we sell the car, I guess we're kind of thinking that we have to have the $12,000 to make up the difference.

Yeah, they can't clear the title until you have that loan paid off. Yeah, so a lot of people go to the actual lender that's holding the, the loan and they do the whole transaction there. Okay, that's the easiest way to do it. Have you got actual quotes on what the car is worth? Where is this $22,000 number coming from? Kelly Blue Book. Okay, and is that private party or trade-in? Private party. Okay, okay. And you've actually looked up— have you looked up listings for similar cars to see if they're actually selling for $22,000 or if they're listed for more? That might give you a good picture. Okay. And then I would get quotes from every single place possible, every dealership, the Carvana, the CarMax, to get a sort sort of a floor of, okay, I know I can get at least this much for it if I did it this way versus listing it on my own. But worst case, you need to save up the cash or get a loan for the difference from a credit union.

Yeah, you may have to go get a $15,000, $16,000 loan just to have some margin to go buy a car, you know, a $5,000 car, pay this one off. And at least that takes your loan from $34,000 to $16,000. You know what I mean? Feels better. How much do you guys make a year?

Together, $275,000.

Oh, fantastic. So either way, you could get rid of all this debt.

Yeah, you may not even have to get— I mean, you could get rid of the car, but the car's not killing you. I mean, you guys could just pay it off if you want to not go through the trouble of paying interest.

Our parameter is, if you can pay off the car in under 2 years and you love the car and it's less than 50% of your total income as far as all your cars are concerned, then you can keep it. But the fact that you're wanting to sell it tells me there's another piece to this.

Yeah, I think it's just following the debt snowball method. You do pay off the lowest debt. Would it be reasonable to basically reprioritize the car so we can pay it off within 2 years?

I wouldn't reprioritize it. I would still put it where it falls in the debt snowball because the truth is your income is the winning piece here.

You don't think you can pay this car off in 2 years, Alex, with all the rest of your debt?

No, I don't think so.

Okay, what are you guys taking home every month?

Um, oh boy, uh, I want to say $13,000. So we're, um, yeah, we also have 6 kids. The, the van, no surprise, it's a minivan. The car is a minivan.

Okay, yeah, I would consider leaping it and just going, how can we be more aggressive in other areas? Because you still got to come up with the difference. And so that's still going to be a hurdle.

Yeah. What are the debts before the car?

Personal loans or credit cards, or what are they?

Credit card, credit card, personal loan. We have legal debt, we have a student loan, um, and then we have medical debt, and then we actually have a substantial tax bill. And the car's the the hardest pieces.

Oh, okay. I would put the tax bill at the top. We always prioritize the IRS before anybody else because they can destroy your life, garnish your wages. So I would attack that first and then do the debt snowball traditionally. But I'm just wondering, if you guys bring in $13,000, could you live off of, let's say, $5,000 or $6,000 and throw the rest at the debt? Yeah.

Uh, I, I want to say yes. I think that's, uh, I'm sure we probably could figure something out.

Have you guys done a budget, a pretty detailed budget for the month?

Yeah, we, we just started it. I think we're on like our second week of doing it. Oh, okay, okay, nice.

That's great. I'm just doing napkin math and I'm going, okay, if we throw $8,000 at this debt, it's gone in 13 months, just over a year. Sure. But that means we have to learn how to live off $5,000 for our household bills for one year.

Can we when we do that. And it's gonna be— Yeah, it's gonna be tight. Shopping a lot of Aldi beans and rice, rice and beans.

PB&Js all around for the kids.

Yeah, it's not gonna be fancy dinners, but we are, we're gonna make it through and save on the grocery bill with 6 kids. That's probably where a lot of your money's being eaten. I mean, man, it— We're shopping in bulk.

I'm sure you guys already have to be strategic with the food, but that I feel like is the biggest area to save too.

Yeah, but if you have this much debt making $275,000, they may not be that strategic with it. They may just be— let's eat out. I don't know. I don't know. So yeah, places that you can cut, things you can sell.

Eating out for a family of 8, that's like $200 anyway.

I mean, your Chick-fil-A bill in and of itself.

Yeah, imagine.

Hey guys, Rachel Cruze here with big news. The 2027 Ramsey Goal Planner is here, and you can get it at our lowest price for a limited time. Guys, this isn't just another calendar. It's the only planner with exclusive monthly content from John Delony, Jade Warshaw, and me to help you set clear goals and actually stick to them all year. So don't wait. Order yours by August 23rd to get our lowest price. Just $35.97. Go to ramseysolutions.com/store to get the deal. That's ramseysolutions.com/store. Up next, we have Mary in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Mary. Mary, welcome to the show.

Hi George, hi Rachel. Hey, I just wanted to add that I actually grew up listening to Dave Ramsey, so I have low-key resentment for all the Ramsey kids because my parents would listen to something Dave did to his teenagers. And guess what I then had to do?

So sorry, Mary, my therapy bill is so large, so yours probably won't No, I'm just kidding. No, it's great. So sorry.

My parents, no, my parents for my graduation present gave me Dave's book, The Whole Money Makeover. And I read it right after I graduated. And I remember rolling my eyes and being like, this is the stupidest book. Everybody knows this. I don't understand why somebody makes a whole much money by writing the obvious. And then of course, by the time I made it through my freshman year, I was like, oh. Oh, wow.

This is— I know.

Oh my gosh, this is so funny. Yeah, it was the foundation of my marriage, right? Like, when I started dating and we like talked about Dave Ramsey and I fell in love with him because he like already had a retirement account. So Dave would be proud.

That's hot. That Roth IRA, totally funded Roth IRA, ladies.

IRA, man, really.

Like, the first thing he introduced me to is like, do you have a retirement account? I was like 18 and I was like, he's the one.

That's when I knew. Oh my gosh. So funny.

I love it. So good.

So good.

So my question is for you. We've been raising the Dave Ramsey and we kind of use our own language over the 18 years, but like we're in like 3, 4, is it 3, 4, and 5, right? We're like supposed to be paying off our house that we bought 4 years ago in 7 years. Like we're doing really well. But one of the things, my question for I have a question for you. How do you go about knowing how much money to put towards a dream? That is kind of my question for you. So you can ask me our finances and you can ask about the dream and how much money it wants. What would you like to hear?

Okay. So you're debt-free with an emergency fund and you have a dream to do what? Correct.

So I just finished writing my fourth novel. Wow. And the third novel— thank you. The third novel I wrote, I spent the last year and a half trying to find representation. So editing, right, sending it through some things, rewriting. I mean, you guys have all published books, so you know the industry is really difficult. And so I sent it to one agent that she was asking for a book. It sounded like my book was exactly right. She was open for a week, and she posted later that she got like 800 submissions in the span of a week. So I know this is a really hard process to go through, especially from the blind. So I'm not like thinking it's gonna be magical and amazing. And using your method of like getting yourself out there and meeting these agents, right? It just takes money. And I, as a stay-at-home mom who's like really conscious with our money, I'm having a really hard time putting money towards a dream I can't prove is gonna be worth it. But my husband is incredibly supportive. Like we literally were just in the car having this conversation where he's like, He was like, "Dave says if you had $5,000 and it burned, would it be okay?" Right?

He's not wrong. Yeah, but my heart is dying. With $5,000, I could make a beach trip, right? It seems really selfish to put it towards myself. So, that's kind of how I was like, how do you go about thinking about how to do a dream and also not throwing money at a dream and it being a stinking fund, if that makes sense?

Very wise. I always remind myself this: there are guys that spend way more golfing that are terrible at it and make no money doing it. If that makes you feel better with your hobby— That's a good idea. That's a good way to think about it. Have you published a novel yet, or are they all just sitting there?

No. They're all just sitting there. I'm not in a huge hurry. I know if it's not this novel, it might be the next one. That's how a lot of authors work.

But why haven't you published?

Published any? Well, um, I— you mean like self-published?

Is that what you mean? Yeah, yeah, Amazon, they can do— they'll do like the—

yeah, print per order. Self-publishing. Yeah, so one of the things is it would take— it takes quite a bit of money, and then it takes a lot of like going out and using social media and paying for that to get advertisements and like going and doing stuff, which again, from my research, I haven't seen that a lot of people actually make it that way. And so again, that's kind of the where I'm like, I don't know if that seems worth it. I've seen numbers as low as $20,000 to get out there, up to $50,000. One of the things that I was looking for towards that my husband was talking about me doing is like, you can go to these conferences and meet agents face-to-face, or like go through these classes where they go through your novel and at the end of it you meet these agents. So it would be getting to be face-to-face, but again, they're anywhere from like $500 to $5,000, and there's no griot. It feels like a scam.

What are you paying money for in this regard? Yeah, don't buy like a $10,000 publishing package where you might get to meet— I would say the agent is not your problem. Think about it like a musician. I know independent musicians who are not on a label who crush it, and they own everything they do without giving up their soul. And I just don't want you to think that a publisher or an agent is your ticket, because they might write you a check for $20 grand one one time and they never recoup the costs and you never make a dime and nobody reads the book. So I'd rather you out there hustling, getting in, in rooms and social spaces where people are reading those types of books, create a following online, and then you make it.

Yes. And then either you can choose to keep going, or if you have evidence of books that have been sold, that is more enticing to a publisher than someone who hasn't done— you know what I mean? Had anything sold.

Yeah. Um, they're looking to see, can we sell books. And if you're an unknown author with no social following, that's gonna be a tough time. Yeah, I would spend my time building a social following and getting in spaces where people are interested in these types of books and trying to network as much as I can.

Okay, without paying a dime. Yeah, who— one who has done that, and she did tell me that she has ended up spending like $10,000, like, from like things like going to conferences to get in there, like printing them herself so she can sell them to bookstores.

Yeah, and that's a better use of your time and money. Yes. But I wouldn't just like buy some package that's supposed to get you in the right rooms. No. Go to the conferences. Yeah. Sure. Pay to do that. Pay to self-publish the book. But at, at some point you gotta build a following. Yeah. People that wanna read your books.

Cause there's almost 4 million books that are published a year. Totally. It's, you know what I mean? So, and I know, you know, this industry probably in and out cuz you've been, you've been loving it. It's been, you know, your hobby. Um, totally.

So it, it, it is, do you have any advice on like, should you like put a number on it and you're like, you go here and and then you don't go beyond it or you just—

Yeah, I think that's a good way to do it. How much do you guys make a year?

We make about $175,000. $175,000. Okay. And you guys are— I'm also a homeschool mom, so I like do homeschool. So like, again, these conferences that we can totally do, do add— there are other things that are part of the equation as well. Um, but I can do this on the other side of homeschooling too, right? There's no like time limit. Limit on this, but again, my husband's like, feel free to spend money, and I'm like, I don't know, I don't see that it's like proved that it'll actually work.

Well, you're not looking for a direct ROI. If I put a dollar in, I get $2 out. Okay. What I would do is set goals for here's what I wanna do this year. I wanna go to 2 conferences. I wanna do, I wanna print 100 books. And then you got to decide.

And make 30 social reels. Yeah. And do all the hashtags of book, you know what I mean? Like the type of novel it is and start, yeah, have some goals. Yeah.

That you're shooting but I think the truth is it's just a lot of work on things that don't cost money, which is creating content on your own around the contents of the book, which that won't cost you money. It costs you time, but there's no way to leapfrog that and just say, well, if I just put $10,000 in this vending machine, I'll sell 1,000 books.

Yeah, but if you know that money is going towards conferences that you should be at, you know, whatever, plane tickets to get there, you know, whatever that looks like for you and that you and your husband feel good with, "Okay, if we put this money out," you know, you're, I mean, you're kind of, it's a little bit of a gamble, but you know what I mean? You're like, "What else are you gonna do?" Like, you guys have done well financially. You're not talking about taking out a $100,000 small business loan to get something started. You're moving at the speed of cash. Grassroots. And just keep reevaluating. So yeah, be okay spending, you know, 5, 10 grand if you guys are good with that. And just say, okay, let's see where this gets me. And then let's talk, you know, March of 2027 is kind of our next pillar, right? Have some timelines.

Here's the milestone.

Here's what I wanna be. That's right.

And just start mapping it out. But I think you'll naturally get weary over time if something isn't happening and you're like, okay, I am throwing money at this thing and it's not happening. But put some out there. You guys have the cash for it. Yeah, try to make the dream happen, which is always fun, exciting. As a fellow reader— Rachel might read it.

Love, love a novel. Send her a DM with the book.

Love a good novel. Hey guys, Rachel Cruze here, and I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people, and way more chances to make memories. But you know what else there's more of? Spending. Oh, between the extra groceries and gas and camp fees and family trips, it all starts to add up so fast. And before you know it, money stress starts to steal the fun out of everything. And that is why I love the EveryDollar budget app, because it helps you plan your money, track your spending, and find more margin in your budget so that you can put extra cash towards the goals that matter most. Enjoy your summer without the money stress. Download the EveryDollar app in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today. Our Scripture of the Day comes from Jeremiah 1:19. "They will fight against you but will not overcome you, for I am with you and will rescue you," declares the Lord. Elon Musk said, "The first step is to establish that something is possible, and then probability will occur." Probably will occur. All right. Yeah.

It's a very Elon quote. Yeah, I saw probability.

Probability.

Is that a tough word? I don't know.

It just feels like something Elon would say.

I can hear him saying it.

"The probability of this situation." I don't know. I feel like you just like are— you love math. If that's— that word is used a lot. Oh, man. All right, let's go to Kate in Indianapolis. Hi, Kate. Welcome to the show.

Hi, Rachel. Hi, George. Thank you for having me on the show. Yes, absolutely.

How can I help today?

So I just found out that my husband gambled, um, $121,000 in daily trading. Oh no. Oh yeah, so sorry. And yes, these were the money, uh, we had from our previous townhome that we sold, and we're in the process buying a new home that we paid $50,000 deposit. It's a non-refundable deposit. So we need to like, um, process with this purchase of the new home.

So you already paid the $50 grand, it's locked into that new house, and now you don't have the funds to put down on top of that? Correct. Oh my goodness.

Okay, how'd you find out? Yeah, yeah, what happened?

Well, um, I kind of like, I saw like the money were not there. He was telling me he invested in stocks and crypto, and I kept asking him to show me the money, and he's everything is fine, the money are safe. Um, like, I'm like, why did you take the— because we had a deal to put 20% down, uh, for the new house, and the rest of the money he would like invest in stocks and cryptocurrency.

Um, yes. So, and so he lied about that?

He was actually day trading?

He did, he did, he did lie about that. And it's not the first time we lost money in the past, not this amounts of money, But yes, here we at.

So he has a gambling addiction. Has he been seeking out any help for this? Or is he unaware? Does he think he doesn't have a problem?

He thinks he doesn't have a problem. He thinks he invests, but he failed at investing. How old is he? Yes, I, he is 43 and I'm 40. We have 2 kids.

Mm-hmm. How long have you guys been married?

Um, well, it's been 17 years now. Okay. Do you work outside the home? Yes, I work full-time. Yeah, we bring home together like $240,000 a year before tax.

What do you make on your own?

About $90,000 to $100,000.

Okay. And what is he— what is he saying this next step is going to be? Because he knows that there's house on the line.

He'll take care of the payments. He says he's gonna pay for kids' activities, and our kids go to private school, so obviously we need to switch them to public schools. And he says he's going to take care of everything. And I sat down and I showed him, like, financially he cannot take care of everything.

Does he still have access to all all of your money?

Um, no, not to what I make. No.

So you've separated accounts or has it always been separate?

Yes, we separated a while back, but, uh, sometimes he wouldn't be, um, on time with payments, so I would have to cover what he couldn't cover.

Because how much debt do you guys have?

Well, he has personal debt, like $20,000, uh, and like credit cards and also in business loans, like $127,000. I don't have any personal debt.

Are you sure that's all the debt he has? Because what I would do is pull credit reports for both of you from all 3 bureaus to make sure.

That's what he told me.

I'm not going off of what he tells you anymore. I know. Yeah. So tonight you're going to pull all 3 reports from all 3 bureaus, both of you, okay? Because you need a full picture of the damage here, because I think if he's lying about this, there's other debt, and we need a clear picture if we're gonna move forward at all. Because I don't know how you're gonna afford this house now, because the rest is gonna have to be on a mortgage. And he's saying, 'I'll handle it.' Correctly, yes.

What's the house cost? We're gonna— it's $550,000.

So you're talking about taking on a half-million-dollar mortgage?

Yes, correct.

Okay, and he's totally fine with doing that, and you know that you guys will qualify based on your income? Yes. Oh boy, this scares me. I mean, there's so much more than that. The house is the least of your problems at this point. Okay. You have someone who is a gambling addict, a pathological liar who's committed tons of financial infidelity while you have two young kids at home. I understand. So if we don't solve that problem, the house isn't gonna fix anything, even if we solve solve that one.

Well, how do we solve this problem if he doesn't see it as an addiction?

You're going to need to reveal that to him, and it might take other people to reveal that to him. I don't know that you can.

I think you guys— I mean, regardless of whether he admits it or not, I think you guys need—

you need marriage counseling ASAP because we had a session and he didn't like it, and he said he doesn't want to do it anymore.

Well, I think he's telling you something then, Kate.

I know.

And that's a really sad reality.

He's choosing his gambling addiction over his family at this point.

He's opting out of the marriage. Yeah, Dr. John Delony always talks about how your actions are basically the words you're not saying. And if he's not willing to fight for this marriage Kate, um, that, that puts, that puts a hard strain on decisions in the future. Probably I probably would not go through with buying a house with him right now because you already told me that he has not been consistent on payments.

So what happens when you guys have a bigger mortgage payment and he doesn't have the money because he gambled it all away that much?

And Kate, he's in, and from a marriage perspective, he's telling you he doesn't want to work on your marriage.

I know, I know. He, he's convinced me that I don't— like, I see it differently.

No, you're not the crazy one, Kate.

The kids call that gaslighting these days. Yeah, that's right.

Yes, he lost $121,000 by quote-unquote day trading.

Yeah, before that he lost like $50,000, and before that he lost like other— like $10,000.

So there's, um— and again, I'm always so cautious when we get to this point in a conversation with a call, cuz we have about 3 more minutes with you, and then you have to go make these decisions about your life, Kate. But I mean, there's some ultimatums that— I mean, if you wouldn't put up with this, if it was drugs, right? That, "Well, he, you know, this and this," or you put something else in the money slots, the gambling slots, and—

Yeah, that's how I see it.

And it should be how you feel. And I'm so sorry. And so, I think, for you, Kay, I would go see— I would go find a great therapist because I think you're gonna need some language and some identity work to be able to stand really strong for you and your kids. And then, he's gonna have to make some decisions based on what you need because he's the one that broke the trust, not you. He broke the trust. And so, there's gonna be some things that he's gonna have to do to repair that trust. Trust for this marriage to move forward.

And, um, yeah, you can't force him into recovery, but what you can do is put up some very clear boundaries that you're going to separate your money so that you— he can't do damage to your family any longer. And that if he wants this to continue, then he's going to need to see a gambling addiction specialist who can assess him.

Yeah, yeah, that's how I see it. Yeah. So do we process We have to, like, go buy this house because there's no way back. Do we buy it and sell it?

Because at this point, I would talk to the lender and see what your options are and see what the contract you signed says. See if there's a way to get out of it.

You may have to forfeit a penalty or something, but I wonder if there is a way for you to get out because I would not put my name on a house with him right now. I think your marriage is on the rocks.

And even if you lost that deposit of $50K, he's done more stupid tax in the last year than that $50K deposit. That you would lose. And he'll continue to do it if we don't put an end to this. Yep. Yes.

Yeah, the behavior is not changing on his end. And he doesn't care to change it, is what it sounds like.

He'll make $50K in the next 3 months. So we can rebuild that. Yeah, exactly. But what we need to do is focus on his inability to lead this family well. Okay. And not destroy them.

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. But I would, I would find a great counselor in your area and have them walk to walk with you through this process. But oh, I'm so sorry. Well, thanks for a great show, George. Thanks everyone in the booth. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that is to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.