Transcript of How Far Are You Willing To Go To Win?

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality, co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Ashley is in Boston. Hey Ashley, what's up in your world?

Hi, Ash—

hi, I'm sorry. Hi, Dave. Um, not much. How are you doing? This is crazy to be on the phone with you.

I'm honored. Glad you got through. How are you?

I— yeah, I'm good. How are you?

Good. Better than I deserve. How can we help today?

I'm just looking for some advice when it comes to, um, finances, money, and dating. Um, I'm 30 years old. Um, I work full-time. Um, I've all— I've always saved, saving. I mean, ever since I was very young, I've worked really hard to save and be responsible with money. But as I'm dating and hoping to get married soon, I'm realizing that not every guy shares that sentiment. Um, I, I think financial attitudes toward finances is really important, like right up there with politics and religion. I think similar spending and saving habits are really important, but I'm just hitting a wall with these guys. Um, I've been really, really blessed throughout my life. I've also worked really hard to save money. I think I've accumulated a pretty solid net worth for my age.

Um, and I don't know, what is your net worth?

About $1.4 million.

And you're 30?

Yeah.

Way to go, kiddo!

Thank you, thank you.

Great job, Ashley.

Yeah, and really smart to not find some loser to bring you down.

I can't take credit for all of it. Um, part of it was— is about half was inheritance. Um, the other half just saving since, I mean, my entire life. Um, I worked a second job for quite a while.

So Rachel, how is the younger version of you? Uh, because I haven't had a date with but one woman in 45 years, so I don't have any idea how to date, um, other than my wife. So, um, I'm 17 off the market. I know, I know. But I mean, the younger version of— How are the youngins doing at these days?

No, no, I don't know, Ashley. I think I would say, you know, when I started dating Winston, he had a credit card. He paid for most of our dates on that, right? And coming from a Ramsey family, like, that's like up there with a sin.

Then one of his friends pulled him aside and said, "Do you know who you're dating?" Yeah, and he said, "No, I don't.

My dad's Buddy Cruz. I don't know who Dave." He didn't know who Dave Ramsey was, which is actually a gift. So, that was great. Anyways, all that to say, there there is something about not just cutting someone off immediately because number one, people can change, okay? So just know in general, is the way they think about money, the way they interact with money, do they have the humility to listen to you, hear what's working for you, and have the humility to maybe, in essence, change and adapt? You know, like, that's on the grace side of the scale, right? Now, if there's a guy and he's like, so leveraged, doesn't care, it's all ego, all what he brings represents, and that's all he cares about, you're probably not gonna change that guy. But I would not be like super, super legalistic in today's world about it. I think it's more about the value system, right? So he may be a spender and you're gonna be the saver. I'm the spender in our relationship with my husband. He's actually the saver. And so you're gonna have different money tendencies, but I think the value system of the way you see money is really important.

Like I would say, that money isn't the, it isn't everything. It's not an idol in my life. It's not something that we worship, right? And there's men and women out there, and it's the only thing they focus on. And if that's the only thing they focus on in life, 24/7, is to get more and more and more, that's a different value system. If they are okay living on the edge and being super risky with investments and leveraging debt, and that that's where they drive energy from, probably not a value system you would align with. Does that make sense? Like, when you get into the nitty-gritty of things, I would have more grace.

Well, there's a difference in having $10 million in Bitcoin versus having a car payment.

Mm-hmm.

Well, $10 million in Bitcoin, I mean—

I mean, that's living on the edge.

$10 million on anything.

No, that's living on the edge. That's in the stupid zone. And that checks the box. I'm done.

Yeah, so I don't know.

This guy's nuts. And so, I don't want to marry a crypto bro.

Well, if he's got $10,000 in crypto and it's the only thing he talks about, he's obsessed with it, then that's the crypto bro to me. But like, do you know what I'm saying, Ashley? There's a level of humility humanity in this when you're dating someone, because they're going to be different than you. But it's the value system that I think I would really harp on, of where their heart is when it comes to the subject. And you've obviously done well. And when you can find a partner that actually sees your strengths as strengths, and they're not threatened by it, like, that's a, that's a pro. And like, that's a, that's a check mark for me in the positive side, the positive category.

I think I have a tough time seeing like what's values, what's not, because if someone's just telling me, I mean, the student loan debt in their late 30s, like I just, some of the things they say, the $30 on lunch every day, we like, I just assume that that's, we have different values, but I guess maybe I, it sounds like I should keep more of an open mind.

Now the student loan debt still being there and the $30 lunch is not a value. That's a symptom. Of what they've learned to this point, and it could be the symptom of a value. And if the value is a loss of hope, "I don't believe I can win. I'm stuck. I need the president or some socialist to come save me." If that's the value, this is not a keeper. But if the value is, "Hey, I'm stuck and I don't know how to get out," and you start going, "Well, you could do this," and they go, "Oh, that'd be cool." Well, that's what Rachel's talking about. That's the humility that goes with the mess. Just because someone's in a mess, I don't rule them out. But I do rule them out if why they're in the mess and whether they intend to stay there or whether they actually brag about the mess and go, "Look at me, how cool I am. I've got a big car payment and it doesn't matter." Yeah, it does. Yeah, it does. And so, you know, I think so in that sense, the value system, the way the Ramsey family would go about it is we're people of faith.

We would say, "Okay, you know, what's God telling you about this?" You know, and if you can't submit yourselves to God's word, you can't submit yourself to the directions of the Lord, then that's a lack of humility. That's an arrogance that's gonna get your head taken off, and I really don't wanna be connected to you when your head gets taken off. And so, and that's what you're saying. So, if the guy doesn't have a work ethic, if he refuses to work, that's a killer. That's a killer. And there's a whole bunch of those out there for various reasons.

Yeah, and money's an interesting topic, 'cause I'm like, it can expose so much about somebody, and there's a shallowness at which, especially, I would think, as you're dating and talking to guys about money.

I would imagine.

Like, the, you know what I mean? There's just like, there's a gross shallowness to it all. And if you're feeling that, like, that would be a value system of mine of like, you just, you feel gross, like, with money. Like, it's just like, it's all about appearances. It's all what you can get. It's all about, "This is my only thing in life that I want." Like, that category, it's like, "No, I don't want you as a partner in life. I don't want you to be the father of my kids." But who he is as a person is gonna overrides so much of that. And if he's a person of character, he respects you, he listens to you, like all of that, a lot of these issues really do start to take hold. 'Cause Ashley, a lot of calls on this show we get, a spouse calls in and they're having a massive issue, either about financial infidelity or something else. And it's rarely a money issue. It's so much a breakdown of their marriage. So finding a quality man would be my number one. Now, if he budgets and he's out of debt, That's a double plus.

That's icing on top.

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Pretty good, Dave. You doing good yourself?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so me and my wife, I'm 30, she's 29. We have a paid-for house with 15 acres, but the caveat there is it is a double-wide trailer that was, uh, manufactured in '97. Um, and this, this 15 acres is part of my grandfather's farm that I bought, um, back in 2017. And here in the last couple months, the house that, um, that he built in '82 has come back up for sale that's attached to this farm that was a part of it at one time. Um, we're thinking about buying it and moving into it. I just need to know if you think it's a good decision or not.

And how much is it?

Uh, he's asking $185,000, and I think we could fix it up for like $50,000, um, re— um, to fix it up and live in it, move in it.

So probably $220-ish all in is what you're thinking? $225?

Yeah. And how much money do you have?

Uh, we have about 15% down.

Okay. And what do you guys make a year?

Uh, about $130,000 to $140,000.

Okay. Well, um, it sounds like you're a bit familiar with what we do. I can't tell for sure, but I think you are. Um, we tell people when they're buying a home, don't take out more than a 15-year mortgage where the payment is more than a fourth of your take-home pay. In your case, you're doing that from a paid-for property, which, you know, it's kind of hard to do because I'm sitting here with no payments and all of a sudden I'm getting ready to saddle myself with payments. Yeah, that's emotionally hard to do. You've got a particular reason to do it. It's adjacent to property you already have paid off. That's cool. It's family property. That's cool. It's a rehab. That's not cool, because those things always cost twice as much and take twice as long as you think they're going to. But the whole thing, I mean, it's within our guidelines of what we teach. Never take out that. I don't tell people to borrow money, and the only thing I don't yell at them for is a mortgage where it's no more than a 15-year with no more than a fourth of your take-home pay.

But I don't want to do this flippantly, and if I were in your shoes, I would get that rehab done ASAP, and then I would begin to pay that mortgage off because I'd want to be back to no payments. It's got to feel good to have no payments.

Yeah, me and my wife just sat down and talked about it. We think we can pay it off in 7 to 10 years if we hunker down like we paid off the last one. Mm-hmm.

I think you can too.

And then we'll be back debt-free.

Yeah, I think you can too with what you're talking about. And so yeah, it fits within our guidelines, so I got to tell you, I mean, And it's— there's a lot of reasons to do it.

Yeah. And I just ran the numbers real quick, Tyler. You guys bring home what, probably $8,400 a month?

Uh, yeah, give or take a little bit depending on the month. Yeah.

And your mortgage will be about $1,200, right? Uh, if you put 15% down on that, plus taxes and insurance.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Probably around all that.

Yes.

So that's within there.

And then we would, then we would take the, the double wide there and rent it out as well. That's, that was the plan.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. So it does. It fits within that 25% of your take-home pay.

I wouldn't do the deal. I wouldn't do the deal if it was dependent upon the double-wide. But the double-wide cash flow that comes in just helps you do the rehab faster.

Yeah.

And actually the numbers I plugged in was the $225,000 with the rehab. It wasn't the $185,000. So yeah. So you guys, from a financial perspective, yeah, the numbers play out totally fine.

Yeah.

I just, I just know Dave says not to take out money on rental properties.

Well, this is not a rental property, you're moving into it.

But I would have the double wide as a rental property. And I would have that.

Oh yeah, yeah. But I mean, if it was detached and it was somewhere else, I would tell you to sell it and put all the money on this house. But what we're doing here is we're gathering back up old family land that's contiguous to each other. So I would do what you're doing here, but for reason of the land being attached, not because of the double wide rental.

Yeah, and the good thing is, Tyler, too, that it's not dependent upon the renter, just your income. Income itself, you can do it on that.

Yeah.

So if the renting becomes a hassle and it feels like it is a second job that you hate, you know, you can always be done with that.

Well, there's a number of years from now that that double wide's not going to be inhabitable.

Yeah.

And so you're going to tow it off somewhere and mow over where you used to be, and you're not going to have a rental anymore.

Yep.

That, that's just, that's out there in the future somewhere, and you got to decide what that is. But yeah, Oh, and here's the thing, all of you listening, the whole thing we want you to do is just not normalize keeping debt your whole life. Mortgage doesn't mean slavery forever, and it shouldn't. Have a plan. He's got a plan, 7 years, he'll be done again like he was last time. Yes. But we've just normalized. You're all like— neighborhood I grew up in, people say, "You're always gonna have a car payment." 'Just the way it is.' You know, 'You're always gonna have a house payment, might as well get—' And so, if you normalize it and you give up and you surrender to these banks, they will own your butt for the rest of your life. And so you have to villainize them and say, 'This is a war for my freedom, and I'm gonna fight for my freedom.' And in Tyler's case, he's surrendering some of that temporarily, only with a plan to get it back as soon as possible versus, "Well, it's okay. It's no big deal. Ramsey just said—" You know, no. There's a reason we do this, because not having any payments is the shortest method to becoming very, very wealthy.

It's the shortest path. And the more payments you have, the more held back you are.

Especially a 30-year mortgage. If you run the numbers, if you just— if you had it for 30 years, how much you pay in just interest? You know, if you go, go on a mortgage calculator and just look it up, I mean, that just makes you sick where you're like, oh my gosh. So part of it too is getting that money back. Yeah. In your pocket. Like what you're saying, when you, when you have nothing, you're not paying out all of this. Like it's, it's wild.

Mathematically, your most powerful wealth building tool is your income. If you invest $100 a month from age 25 to age 65, you'll have $1,176,000. So if you have a $500 car payment from age 25 to age 65, because car payments are normalized, that's a $5 million car you're driving. Hope you like the car. If you keep a mortgage your whole stinking life because every time you get one paid off, you can't wait to go get another one. The number of people in America that pay off their car, get out of debt, and the way they celebrate getting a raise at the office is going and taking out a new car payment. And that's just stupid, people. You're playing the car companies' games, you're playing the banks' games, you're playing the FICO score game, you're playing the Samuel L. Jackson What's in Your Wallet game. And what's in my wallet is none of Samuel's dadgum credit cards. Instead, there's some pictures of Uncle Ben, John Monroe Franklin. That's him. So that's how that works. I mean, you just gotta think this through, guys. That's how that works. And so that's what we want. And so when— that's the way we think and how— what we're gonna measure your question against, that idea, when it comes in.

And, you know, and we— you know, whether you go in debt or whether you go broke, it doesn't really affect us. We're just going home. I'm gonna turn off the microphone in a few hours, I'm going home. And Rachel's kids will never know what happened to you, and she'll be okay. You know, it's okay. So this is all for you. We're doing it, we're helping you because we love you and we want you to win. And we've done that for almost 40 years now. And consequently, there's tens of thousands of Baby Steps Millionaires out there that have followed these ideas because they freaking work. And these ideas come from the Bible and from your grandmother who got them from the Bible. It's live on less than you make. Get out of debt. Always be generous. Always be saving. Always have a written plan with your money. These are common sense things, and I can back every one of them up scripturally if you want me to. I mean, this is how this works. And people that, you know, on TikTok that want you to do something else. Come on, guys, really think about your sources.

Garbage into your brain. You know what your brain turns into? Garbage. So, you know, you just—

At least you didn't say Tic Tac. I need to clean that up.

I'm sorry, Tic Tac. You've come a long way. If you're using Ticky Tacky—

You've come a long way.

It's a dad joke.

No, I know. But, well, and I think the hardest thing for people is when you feel stuck, you want the fastest way out. And the fastest way out, the quote-unquote "get rich quick," you get quick results.

Yeah, you can always borrow your way into anything.

Right, it does not end up on the other side. And so, actually, the more methodical, slow-paced, consistent plan that is backed by common sense, that's the one that works. It's not as shiny and flashy and exciting, but it is what it is.

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Results may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. Maria is in New Orleans. Hi, Maria. How are you?

Hi, I'm all right. How are you? Better than I deserve.

How can we help?

So I owed $27K on my car and it was giving us a lot of trouble. I've been working the plan since the beginning of the year, and because it was in my husband's name, he went to trade it in for what was supposed to be a cheaper vehicle, and instead he came back with one that was $50K negative equity, $90 a week in gas just to get me to work and back. So I went back to the dealership to see about trading it in for something less or giving it back. I was disgusted, and they told me, well, you can give us $20,000 and we'll take it back, or you can trade it in for something that is more fuel efficient. And I just want to get out of this situation that my husband put me in.

What's your husband saying about this? What was his reaction when you probably flipped out?

When I went back to the dealership and they told me exactly how much it was, his response was, I didn't know. They had just told him what the monthly note was going to be.

So I'm not sure. I'm not sure if we need to trade the husband or the car.

Uh, both would be nice.

She's like, I'm so tired of it.

How long have y'all been married?

Oh, a very long time, almost 20 years. Yeah. Okay, so usually I'm the one that takes care of all of the finances, but you know, it's been a long time and you know, we've grown, we've supposedly matured, and I trusted him to go in with, okay, I have work take it in, trade it in, get something cheaper that we can pay off.

And he comes back. Well, I will say, not that this is an excuse for him by any means— he's a grown man and he should have known what he was paying for at the end— but car dealers are notorious for figuring out that monthly payment and then they add on this and this and this, and you really don't, you know, know when you walk out. But when he signed the papers, he should have seen and known and asked for. So, it's not an excuse. I just know if you're not, if you don't care, it's almost like if you're not engaged at all in the purchase, that can just happen, right? But that's what frustrates me about it is I'm like, you weren't engaged in the process at all. Like you did completely the opposite of everything we talked about. So, that's the issue that I see, and he rolled negative equity into it.

So, how much have you sold This car, she said, they said she's $20,000 upside down, the idiots that sold it to her.

I know, but I wonder if you Kelly Blue Booked it for a sale of an individual, a sale, what it would come up as.

So let me tell you that your finances are not, your finances are not going to get better if you keep handling them the way you are. Mm-hmm. Where this guy is loose out there running around doing whatever because you sent him over to the car dealer and you thought he could handle it. The two of you need to sit down, look at numbers, and when the item is over $1,000, you need to wait overnight, talk about it, and the two of you pray about it and look at the numbers. Slow your butt down and both of you be involved. And the two of you need to be looking at your monthly budget, and the two of you you need to be leaning into getting this cleaned up. All of your verbiage has been, "I'm the only adult in this conversation, and I'm dragging this little boy along with me." That's your verbiage. That's what it feels like. Yeah, and that's gotta stop, because you're not going to win financially doing that. All of our data points of all the millionaires we've studied, all the people that are successful in their marriage, all the people that are successful with their money are teams.

They work together, they respect each other, and they make deals with each other, and they keep their word, and they don't cop out with incompetence or direct conflict against the goals that we have agreed to. But you guys are not on the same page, and so, right, the boy child is gonna have to man up, and you're gonna have to get used to other people speaking into this other than just you. The two of you together gotta look at this and go, "This is a freaking mess, and together we're gonna clean this freaking mess up." And then if you take that set of principles and apply them to this mess, then it's gonna sound like, "Well, let's look at 14 different ways we can get rid of this stupid butt car because we got screwed." You let it happen, both of you. You by sending him over there, him by being asleep at the wheel in a coma in a car dealer's finance office, which is a good place to get screwed. And, you know, both of you together, watch this happen. And then the car dealer just— that, you know, if you ask an alligator if it's hungry, it's gonna say yeah.

And so guess what? That's what they're gonna do. So that's, you know, now you gotta figure out how to get out. How am I gonna get out of this? The two of you got to sit down and go, okay, we're gonna go to 14 dealers, we're gonna analyze this car, we're gonna get this car sold, and we're gonna get a freaking hoopty, a $2,000 car, and we're gonna roll up our sleeves. Everybody's taking extra jobs. We're not gonna see the inside of a restaurant unless we're working there. We're not going on vacation. All that money you piled over there to buy your fishing fishing boat's gonna go to clean this dadgum mess up. Whatever it is, you gotta scrape all this money in the middle of the table, clean out the nickels out of the corner of the couch, and get the mess cleaned up as a team. But until you team up, you're not gonna win. You're not. It's gonna happen over and over because it sabotages the progress that you make. That's why one person— people ask us all the time, how can I do this without my spouse's approval or involvement? You can't.

Yeah. It's tough.

Yeah, that's where it is. And so, I'm sorry. I'm sorry you guys are in the middle of this mess. But that's your answer on how to fix it. Fix this relational dysfunction. Yes. And that'll fix the overall thing.

Because resentment's gonna start to build if it hasn't already, Maria. So, honestly, like, that's— for him to come to the table and have a seat at the table and actually have an opinion, and you listening to it.

And responsibility.

And responsibility, all of it. His involvement and vice versa with you. I'm like, that's, that's part of it. But I'd be pissed too. So I think— I don't blame you.

I get it. That part of it's true. I'll go with you on that. Dave is in Fort Lauderdale.

Hey, Dave, what's up? Hey, how you doing? I've got an issue with, with the bank. I went to apply for a cash-out mortgage because I had a surgery and I wanted to pay that off. And did you not have insurance?

Medicare. Okay. So how much is your out-of-pocket with Medicare on the surgery?

It's, um, my out-of-pocket, uh, was about $7,000, $8,000. Okay. And you don't have any money? No, it's not that I don't have any money, but what I, I didn't want to have to use my monthly expense because, uh, everything that I own, um, I pay for every month. I don't have a car payment. I have a car. How much money do you have? Uh, I haven't asked my— I have my assets of about $165,000.

Okay, just pay off your medical debt.

You don't have that in cash though, Dave, do you? No, no. What do you have in cash? What's it in? I think what's it in? House and car and stuff. Dave, how much, how much money do you have in the bank, cash available to you?

In the bank right now, about monthly expense. Uh, I have a total leftover to get to the end of the month, about $1,500.

$1,500. Okay.

Do you have any money that you can get your hands on that's in investments or anything you can sell?

Uh, no, not right now. No. Okay.

What's the $165,000 in?

It's my, uh, the place that I own.

The home that you own and your paid-for car? Yeah. Okay, so you have $1,500.

How old are you? Um, in my 70s.

Okay, what— how old are you exactly? 77. Thank you. And how, how is your health now that you've had the surgery?

It's great.

Good, I'm glad. Okay, um, and what is your monthly income?

It's about 20, $2,600. Okay.

All right. The, the first thing I'm going to do is go revisit that inventory, see if there's anything other than the house and the car that I can sell to pay this debt down. The second thing I'm going to do is I'm going to call the, uh, medical people and say, I don't have any money. This is a Medicare deal. All I— I don't have any cash. What kind of a deal can you offer me on this? And see if you can get a discount And if you can, I'd scrape together the money, barely, out of your monthly, which your monthly's really tight, I agree with that. Um, but I'd do my best not to borrow on the cash out. I don't want you to go back in debt at 77. You finally got out. Let me tell you what I get asked all the time. When should I get term life insurance? How much do I need? Is it affordable? Those are the right questions to be asking. So let's take a quick review. The fact is, term life isn't a baby step. So if anyone is dependent on your income, you need to have 10 to 12 times your income in life insurance now.

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I'm good, Dave. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so I wanted to ask, how do I get comfortable investing, um, for the future when the future itself just feels so uncertain?

What do you mean?

Um, and I know this is a bad, like, comparison or example, but, um, you know, there's just so much negativity on social media and And I see so many things that like socialism is making such a push and climate change is, is, you know, risking our future. It sometimes feels pointless to have this big chunk of money in the future when it just feels like I'm just really anxious about it. And so uncertain. How old are you? About what the future 36. Okay, cool.

All right. Sarah, as a fellow conspiracy theorist fan, I would tell you, though, I'd get off— I'd get off social media. I'm not kidding you, for 6 months.

You need to go fast.

Don't engage it. And it is amazing.

The news sites, too. Anything.

I mean, I'm telling you, and that's not putting your head in the sand, right? If you need to know something, you need to know something. But to sit there and worry about something you cannot control. It does no good. It really doesn't. And we were not even, I don't think, created to hold everything that we see on social media, right? Whether it's different murder trials going on to things happening across the globe. Like, I'm like, it's just, it's a lot.

And so— Dr. Deloney talks about, John, he said, "Your body was designed to learn about danger within your circumference." not someone that got murdered in Japan. But if someone got murdered in Japan, we all heard about it 20 minutes ago. You know, I mean, it's amazing because of the inputs, and it's fast, and it's frequent, and it's everything. So every possible negative thing or potential negative thing or hyped-up drama negative thing is going to be pushed out. And of course, those of us in that business and around those people all the time, we know that if it bleeds, it leads. We know that these people basically, a lot of these sites are basically fear porn.

Well, it's clickbait. They have to get their clicks. And so, it is gonna be— They're driving traffic. And it's gonna be extreme on both sides of this, even if you look politically, on both sides of the spectrum, it's extreme. And when you honestly, I mean, really, Sarah, when you talk to everyday people, most people are in the middle on all different types of— like, it is more hopeful, genuinely. It is more hopeful.

Regardless of where you stand, on climate change, we can all agree that in 2006, The Inconvenient Truth that Al Gore put out was absolutely bogus because he claimed that Miami would be underwater by now, and obviously it's not. Right. So I mean—

So, but in both extremes, yeah.

That's, you know, regardless of what you believe about climate change, you just have to observe actual facts. So anyway, yeah, the reason I ask how old you are is because about the time I was your age or so, a guy came out with a book called 88 Reasons Jesus Is Coming Back in 1988. Oh, man.

People are obsessed with the rapture. I feel like the end of the world.

Everyone loves it. It's the Christian conspiracy theory market. Okay. It's the '90s. So, the Bible's real clear that we're not going to know the date or the time. But this guy did. Okay. And he was sitting on his houseboat waiting on the exact date that Jesus is supposed to return. I guess he's still sitting there. I don't know, because it still didn't happen.

So, you know, and so But your point is you can't know what's gonna happen.

Dale Carnegie used to say, "80% of what we worry about never occurs, and the other 20% we don't have any control over." And so I'm gonna go ahead with my life. I know there's some things out there that are actual facts. I know there's a whole bunch of it that's dramatized and upsold, and Miami's not gonna be underwater, I'm pretty sure. Pretty sure in my lifetime we can still go down there and swim off the beach. And so that kind of stuff, right? So I'm pretty sure we're gonna be okay. I'm pretty sure socialists aren't gonna take over, because as soon as people figure out what that is, they don't want it. It sucks, and there's no track record on it, so I'm really not worried about it.

People got good common sense. And again, you— I mean, we're—

And even if it did, probably not in your lifetime.

Well, let me tell you this, Sarah. We're watching— Tom Hanks has a World War II documentary. It's like, oh my God, we're in the middle of it. Winston and I are watching like a few episodes a night. It's so good. It's good. Could you imagine telling the greatest generation that like, where we're like, think about living then. That's more like into the world.

Like, you watch that and you're like, "If you were living then—" You're looking out your back window for Japanese airplanes.

That feels into the world to me, you know? And so, like, you can go into different parts of history and you would think what this specific generation's going through.

They taught us to hide under desks in the '60s in case there was an atomic bomb, as if a desk would protect you from an atomic bomb. I've always thought that was the dumbest, but that's as dumb as wearing a mask during COVID Okay.

Okay.

I mean, it's just as dumb. And so, you know, it's God Almighty. There's no chance. So anyway, the thing's fun. So anyway, Sarah, the answer is it's human hope versus human anxiety. Yes. And so what are you placing your hope in? What do you really believe? And I really believe that God has not got that as our plan. I suspect before this thing comes to an end, that I'll be on my houseboat waiting on Jesus to come back. So, I mean— Yeah, it's— well, just— yeah. This is a flippant answer, but it's also the only one I've got. But the real thing is— I'm not going to plan my life around all the negative things bringing the world to an end. Yes.

And the sources at which we're getting this information have a reason on why they are having certain headlines and leaning a certain way. They know their audience, and they feed their audience what they want to hear. I mean, it's It's a game, the media, it is. I'm like, it's just this massive game.

And so— It's called provocateur.

Just choose not to— yeah, choose not to engage. I mean, for real, do a 6-month social media fast.

I don't have a supply of water. I don't have a supply of food. I do have a supply of bullets for the zombies. Okay, oh my gosh.

But other than that—

Geez, this is the most—

The zombie apocalypse, I'm ready. Cut this whole segment out. I just don't know what the zombies are gonna look like yet.

Well, I did think about— stashing some— I don't know, Y2K. All that. Why? You had water for Y2K?

I had— we had bottled water.

Yes, you did.

I was joking with one of my buddies. He said, I've got more water than you. And I said, do you have a gun? And he said, no. I said, good, I got your water.

Why do we have to keep going back? Why do we have to keep going back to that? Because it's how it works.

I'm not worried about it. It's fun. Enjoy the ride. Sarah, there's not a perfect answer. It's human. There's always going to be things that are awesome and always going to be things that are troubling. And the good news is, if you think about it overall, here's the actual truth. Today, if you are alive in the United States of America, you are alive at the best possible time in the history of the world. Your standard of living, your medical care, your quality of life, your hours worked, the way your children are treated, is better than at any point in human history in any physical location. These are the good times. We live in the middle of them. The stock market is setting records. People are becoming millionaires faster than some of them learned to spell millionaire. These are the good times. If you want to start a business right now, You can just start a business. When I started this business almost 40 years ago, the internet wasn't even there, much less apps, much less AI, much less anything else. I can just, I can just have an idea and deliver it to you folks by morning, and I'm a boomer for God's sakes.

What could you millennials do? This is the best time to be alive, but you know what'll kill you? Hope deferred. Stolen, put off— that's deferred. Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but when desire comes, it is the tree of life. And so when we have this sense of hope, it drives our belief system and it causes us to do things that cause our dreams to come true. When we've lost our hope, and we're frozen and our hope is stolen by these fear porn sites or by bad inputs from TikTok or whatever, then we act on that lack of hope, which guarantees that our nightmares come true and we miss the wave of existing in the greatest time, in the greatest location, the United States of America, in the history of the world.

Wow.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. This hour we're going to devote to one of my favorite topics, and most people's, one of their favorites to talk about around the water fountain, over the kitchen table. With one of our favorite people. With one of our favorite people. He's great. Is real estate. Brian Buffini, America's real estate coach. He coaches, he and his team coach more real estate agents than any other company in America at Buffini and Company. Brian's been a friend for many years. He speaks at our EntreLeadership conferences. I've spoken at his conferences. And he was on here a few months ago, and about all we were sure of was we were gonna do that again again. Welcome back, Brian.

Glad to be back. Love being here with you guys.

It's good to have you, sir. So I want to talk real estate this hour together, and, uh, towards the end of the hour, guys, we're going to open up the phones and clear off the phone lines and take some questions from some of you. Brian's one of the leading experts on real estate. So this whole thing of you and I and this, uh, doing a segment on real estate kind of happened when we were having a, um, a discussion over the golf course one day, and you said, "Well, there's inventory shortages," and I went, "Well, yeah, there's been inventory shortages for 20 or 25 years. Anytime there's a shortage of something, the price goes up. No duh." And you said, "Well, there's some things the president could do," and I went, "Oh, don't tell me that. I don't want to depend on Washington to do anything." "Well, one thing we could do," you said, "is we could keep the large institutions from buying tens of thousands of homes and taking them off the market and turning them into rental houses." houses. That's one problem. One thing we could do is a lot of the boomers would like to sell and move down, but they've got over $500,000 in equity.

Anything over $500,000 in equity, and that's a 30-year-old law. Yeah, 1997. That's how old that number is. It should have been updated. It hasn't been indexed for inflation or anything else. We could remove the capital gains tax on home, personal residences, and a bunch of people put their house up for sale because they could get that money out tax-free, move down, and that would help add to the inventory. And that was a couple things we talked about. I talked about them on the air right after that, and lo and behold, the president put out a— I'm not saying it came from us, but he did call us right after that and want us to talk about it to get the bill through. And that did actually happen, the Road to Housing Act. And then when it did come through, he didn't want to sign it because they filled it full of pork, as they always do. And so that's what happens when you're in D.C. But so that the Road to Housing Act, I want to start with that. I'm going to take part of the credit with Brian Buffini for having at least sparked an idea in Washington because what it was supposed to do, the primary thing was to keep these institutional buyers from buying the houses, getting them off the market.

Yep.

And it did some of that for sure. It was definitely watered down, right? It wasn't a nothing burger, but it wasn't the bill we were hoping for. They have eased some— they've eased the restraints for local communities to be able to help build more homes. That's a big deal. That is a big deal. California didn't listen. Thanks, bud. You know, you know, it's 72 degrees there today. I got bad taxes and I can't build a house, but it's 72. That's the— that's what I'm hanging on to. But I'll just say now, I will say this: they didn't get the cap gains thing done. No, they did get a restriction on the big companies. And what's happening, these companies who bought— for 2 years they bought 25% of all homes in America— they are now trying to divest themselves. So what they're doing is leasing out these homes, and now they've come out with incentive programs. Okay, we'll lease you the house and we'll give you a credit towards buying it if you buy it, because they're trying to get out of it. So for someone trying to create a down payment, the market rate— because rents have come down, so typically, typically when they do a lease option, there's a premium on the lease.

They charge more for the lease on the home, and then they— you get a credit for a down payment. Well, you kind of paid extra for that. Now what's happened is, because the rents have come down across the They're being forced to rent these new homes, but they're giving credits to people who say, if you sign a 1-year lease or an 18-month lease, we'll give you $10,000 towards the down payment and then you buy it from us. So that's—

but the economics are forcing that, not this bill. No, no, that's— the bill didn't cause them to divest. No, it just stopped them from buying more. So they can't—

houses on your street. So now because they're these big Blackstones and whatever else, they're like, I can't buy more. Well, I'm going to get rid of what I have. So they're going to slowly get rid of what they have. The second thing is that's an unintended consequence.

I don't see that coming. No, it's good.

And the next thing that's happening is the midterms are coming. Uh, all real estate is local and all politics are too. So now they're actually talking about actually doing an executive order in the next couple of weeks on the capital gains thing that didn't get put through the first time.

Really? So you do an executive order on taxes?

You know, so the way you do it is you put it into the reconciliation bill. You don't make it a permanent change to the tax laws. You follow? Oh, as always, it's not a permanent thing. So what it could do— now the downside, it could create a the shock of people going, I'm going to get my money. So yeah, right quick, $250,000 per person, $500,000 for a couple, put in today. Yeah, that's today. That started in 1997. They're talking about moving it to a million. Okay, now if it was indexed for inflation, it'd be $620,000 each.

But if it's a million, what— how motivated do you think then boomers would be to downsize?

Here's the thing. So now you're going, I have a rental property, I have a vacation home, I'm in a big house that I don't know—

not just personal residence, everything, everything.

Everything. And so now it's like, I'm gonna— uh, here's what I'm doing. I'm gonna put it down. I was only going to get a $500,000 drop. Now I'm going to get a million-dollar drop. And here's the gift, and here's the hope for the folks out there.

No, if you got— if it's a rental house, it's a million dollars versus nothing. Yeah, yeah.

And so now what you're looking at is the potential of getting that discount. Again, it'll go year by year, so it's a reconciliation bill. I think it'll soften prices because I'm like, hey, I'll take 50 grand off my price if I can be assured of the 9.7.

I don't have to pay the taxes on that. Yep.

You know, so that's They're looking at doing that in the next reconciliation bill. I just got a call on that today.

If that actually happens, that'll— even if it's temporary, if you put $1 million on the houses that I own that are rentals, and I've got $1 million worth of gain, I'll sell them.

Yeah, well, that's what they're trying to do. 'Cause they know they got a big problem on their hands. And young people can't buy homes. They're feeling disconsolate. You know, I should—

You were on, what was it? June of this year with us. We were on. Okay, so it's been a few months. What has anything big shifted even in the last 90 days? It's gotten worse.

Has it? Yeah.

Oh, you're a light of sunshine. Yeah, there you go.

Yep, here's the little—

piped a little Irish sunshine in here.

Hey, I'm from a land whose number one export is alcohol.

Okay, there's a reason. Okay, what are a couple of those points? And we'll probably dig into them more in the segments, but I'm serious.

So what we're seeing is this increase in under-30s living at home. Yeah, it's gone from 39% up to 49% of people under 30, you know. Okay, in 90 days? No, no, no. So that's in the last 6 years, but that's gone up 3 points this summer. So kids are coming out of college who normally would graduate and get a job and stay at the college town, they all moved home. Yep. So this year we've seen a higher percentage of these college kids who got graduated came back home and didn't go.

Well, and, and this is not speaking for all Gen Z by any means, but there was a clip going around viral of this girl, she was probably 24, and she is just having a cow in her car about how she is not getting a $150,000 offer for these jobs, and on and on and on and on and on. People are reacting like, you're basically 2 years out of college. No, you're not gonna be making that. So all that to say, they have this belief of still, some of them, of what they should be making slash what my life should look like, and then reality hits, and it's like, no, you're making $65,000, $50,000.

A buddy of mine sent his son over for an interview at the company. Now, I don't interview people, but comes along, the kid goes, I want in my contract an offer for an executive position within 2 years. And that's what his professor told him. And I said, I got room in the mail room. I was like, kid, I don't know where to start.

You know what a mop looks like? Wow. It's hard. Yep.

Wow. Not making the incomes they think, and then they try to get in the housing market, they can't. It's tough. Rentals are Yup.

It's Brian Buffini is with us. We're talking real estate. I think it's going to be a sociology lesson when we're done. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Like so many things in life, there's a lot of things you can't control, and the world The business of real estate is one of them. So how do you function in this environment? Well, we're talking with Brian Buffini today, one of the nation's leading experts and leading coaches on real estate issues. I will tell you this, that you control the controllables. Anytime you're facing something that feels out of control, first thing is facts are your friends, not feelings. So this sense that you've been boxed out or it's unfair, all these little childish things that we all feel when we're feel disenfranchised. Yeah, well, that's feelings. Okay, so you have to back up from that and go, okay, but what are the facts? And what are the things I can actually control? Well, the facts are that the typical entry home, if you take out California and New York, is about $199,000 right now. That's a typical starter home in America. And the typical starter home in America is not fancy. Fancy and has never been fancy. Even when my first home was purchased, when my parents purchased their first home, they weren't fancy. And so, one of the controllables is you adjust your expectations for your first home because you're not going to buy a 4,000-square-foot with a Jacuzzi and a skylight.

You're broke.

Skylight, okay, yes. But for So Brian, what are you seeing? The typical— I have not seen that $200,000.

That's a Zillow number, which I don't trust Zillow that much, but it's a Zillow number.

What would you say for the average starter family? Because I mean, I look up homes.

So the average home in America is about $428,000. Yeah. I think it's good to take out the two coasts, right? I mean, yeah, because I live in San Diego. It changes the math.

It does. I agree. I agree.

So I think you're looking at the latest numbers and Zillow, again, they're not friends of Brian Fannie. So they position numbers because they have certain programs going, right? So you're probably looking at your typical starter home is about $290K. Okay. It might be about $100K more. The dynamic that we're seeing is this: there's more inventory than we've seen in the last 7 years. Okay. There's more houses for sale, which means prices are starting to soften. Prices are starting to flatten. This is the time. And you guys were talking earlier on about the lady listening to social media. If you're a buyer and you're listening to social media, there is no hope. Give up. Everybody's given up. That's the thing to do. Rent is your friend, the math's not mathing. And that's not true. Now is the time to be making sure you're doing the Ramsey program, you're saving the money, you're eating spaghetti, okay? You're doing it because if, if you really want a house, you got to sacrifice.

Get out of debt, have your emergency fund, don't buy a car payment. Just so you know, every first-time buyer buys a car.

They buy a car before they buy a home.

Yes. Why can't I get a house? I have a $1,200 car payment, right? And that is why— that is the typical thing.

So you got to keep grinding. The second thing, there is dynamics out there. I was talking to you guys offline, 23% of all mortgages in the United States are assumable. Now they're specifically, they're FHA and VA, and you were on the radio a few years ago, a few months ago, talking about this.

No, I screwed that up about 2 weeks ago. I'd said they're not assumable and I got hammered for it because I was wrong.

Well, you were right and you were wrong. No, you were right when it comes to conventional. Conventional loans are not assumable.

None of them are. They used to, none of them be assumable with the rates, but you can take an FHA or a VA and they'll keep the rate.

So here's the thing, if you're a military person, you go to the listing and say, find me someone who's in the military selling their home and you can take over. The average loan on an FHA/VA is 3.2%. FHA, which is the number one first-time buyer home. So let's say someone's a first-time buyer, they bought a home, they fixed it up, it's worth more, it's gone up in value. They're going on to buy a conventional house. They're going to get a conventional loan. The FHA loan that's on their house is assumable. You got to qualify. So you have good credit, you got— or you got the down payment, you cleaned, you're good. You got no stupid car payment, you can go get an assumable loan on a VA or an FHA loan, and you're not paying the current, you know, 5.6% on a 15-year fixed. You're getting a 3%, right? And 90% of them are getting a 6.8, Dave. You know, they're— most of them are getting 30 years. I mean, your plan is better. It's right. It's the only way to save money. But the typical buyer, right, is out there doing that. Yeah, it's 6.8.

And I think for the first-time home buyers, we were just running numbers in the break, uh, you know, if you make $100 grand, which is a little bit up than what the average or what the median household income is, your starter home is going to be around that $270,000, $300,000, which is, you know, that's around what you're saying. Even that, that's correct, right? That should be your first, but it's going to take longer to save. And if that $270,000, $300,000 house is not in the neighborhood you want, good school district, right? If you have kids, like all of it, it's going to, it's going to take you longer. And I feel like I think that's one of the most frustrating parts about this.

It might take you longer to drive to work because you might move 3 counties out or 2 counties out.

My first home was on Texas Street in San Diego, and we were 3 weeks married, moved into the new home, and Beverly goes, "What are those fireworks I hear in the distance?" They weren't fireworks. It's just, "Yeah, they're celebrating here in inner city San Diego." San Diego. But you know what, we fixed it up, we made it worth more, we sold that house, and I got her to another neighborhood. That's right. Yes, yes. So, you know, you got to start somewhere. You got to fight, scratch, and claw. You got to fight. I'll just say this: there is— the average homeowner has 46 times the net worth of the average renter. Young people are deciding to stay renters. That's a way to stay broke. Fight, bite, scratch, and claw. Here's the— I, I was showing I always tell you guys, people like, here's this little graph for those of you who can see it. Look at this thing. The green is the amount of years in the last 75 years that real estate went up. Okay? And here's the red. And the red, 4 of them, 5 of them were the Great Recession. So it's gone down 6 years in 75.

That's a pretty good investment. So it's not going anywhere. Now the beautiful thing for people, it's only gonna go up gradually the next few years and the incomes are going up at a higher rate.

Even more, which is great. Yes.

So get, fight, bite, scratch and claw.

The current inflation rate of real estate nationwide is around 1%. Yep. Yep. And the current wage growth is around 3.5%. 3.5%.

Okay. Give it 4 years. Yeah.

So if you say wages don't match real estate prices, that, that's going in the right direction. Yes. Which is great.

I mean, that is, that's very—

that's gonna help the issue.

Yes. That's a very important thing.

But it's not going to change if you have unrealistic expectations to get an executive position in the first 2 years in your contract. Yeah.

And get an executive house. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

If you want, if you want a 5,000 square foot home, home in a premium neighborhood. You can't afford that if you make $80,000 a year.

Right, right. And I think that that's the hard part is when the rubber meets the road and you're looking at your income, you're working hard, right? You're paying for daycare. I mean, like, we get these callers in and they are trying so hard to do well. And when the facts come out, yes, your feelings are gonna fall. It's gonna be frustrating. We're like, man, this is less than what we were expecting. Expecting, right? And so there's that reality that you have to live in for a bit. And then once you kind of get over that hump, right, of what you're saying, you fight hard, get in the market, and then you could look up in 4 years and be in a totally different place with your income, your job, your house, everything.

I told— I was a house painter, right? My dad was a house painter. And my first house, I told my wife it was 5-star accommodations because you could see 5 stars through the hole in the roof. Yeah. And so we fixed it up. We cleaned it up. We made it better. Right, right. And then we sold it and we made the next one better and we made the next one better. Yes. And the next thing you know, you wake up one day and you've got millions of dollars in equity in real estate. And that's the American dream.

But to get there, what you're saying is the plan, like if you still have student loan payments, you still have two car payments.

You gotta clean it up.

Credit card debt. It is gonna feel almost impossible to try to be a homeowner today.

You don't. You get that stuff cleaned up.

That's right. And that's what we say.

You shouldn't buy a home if you're in that mess. That's right. You should clean the mess up first. 'cause the home's not gonna be a blessing. It's gonna be a curse. So you get out of debt, you build your full emergency fund, you save for a good down payment, you adjust your expectations of location, and generally that means you're gonna go a little bit further out. And the further out you go, the more house you can buy in most markets.

I, one out of every 10 homes in America is sold through my clients. We tell every member we have in the real estate business, business, to get every first-time buyer, buy them a copy of Total Money Makeover. I was walking my son through the building today and I go, I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of copies of that book I've sold. Because— and why am I here today apart from our friendship— is it's the best stuff out there to get people on the path. And, and in the modern world, Dave is old school and chew your credit cards up. Let me tell you, that old school works today, tomorrow, 50 years from now. Get out of debt, get the student loans on. Don't drive the old car. Buy something to park it in front of.

Yep. Now, when you do that, okay, so if you're sitting there and you clear your debt and then you get ready to buy a house and you go look at what you can afford and you don't like it, mm-hmm, now you got two choices: remain a renter, mm-hmm, or buy that home that's not fancy that I don't like and get started. 10 years from now, which will be the best route for your wealth building and your family. Yeah, buy the house that you don't like. For sure. I used to send out—

I used to send out a postcard to neighborhoods and says, your landlord says hi and thanks again for paying his mortgage.

This is The Ramsey Show.

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Brian Buffini is our guest, America's number one real estate coach to real estate agents, but also a real estate expert, good friend of ours. And we're talking real estate this hour. Now we're going to take some of your questions, uh, in the next segment if you want to call Call in, 888-825-5225, and ask Brian a question. So here's some of the ones that have already come in, Brian. Should I wait for rates to come down before I buy?

I heard in the previous section you were talking about the guy who knew when Jesus was coming back and he was sitting on his boat. Yeah, that's like the buyer waiting for rates to come down. Okay, so, you know, if you know when rates are coming down, you give me a call. Call, you let me know. I, I don't think anything's going to change for a long time because of the amount of debt the country has. The rates are built off the Treasury bills. The Treasury bills are who the government is borrowing money from— countries, institutions. I have T-bills, and they've guaranteed to pay me a certain amount. The 10-year Treasury is what sets the market. And so you take the 10-year Treasury, you add 2%, and you'll get a 30-year mortgage. So like right now it's 4.7 6. And so you're going to go and get a mortgage. A 30-year mortgage would be 6.8, and the 15 is, you know, 5.7. So if you wait— I, I'll say this, I have never had anybody in my real estate career say this ever: I'm glad I waited. What the typical thing is, man, I could have bought that house down in Cool Springs for $300 grand and a packet of peanuts, and now it's worth a million, you know, and I didn't.

And that's all you ever hear. You hear stories of regret. Never have I heard anybody happy they waited.

Is renting forever a viable option, and can I still build wealth without buying a home? I'll jump in on this with you. Yeah. Okay.

So, of course it is. You know, living in your car is an option too. So, you can rent. It's just when the number says the number one source of wealth in the United States is a private residence, and that the average homeowner has 46 times 10 times the net worth of a renter. The numbers are in your favor. Can you go do it on the market? Can you invest in stocks? For sure you can. You can do all that stuff. It's just a lot harder and not as stable.

When we did the largest study of millionaires in America ever done, 89% of them did it on their own without inheritance, 9 out of 10. We found over and over and over again two things. One is they'd loaded up their 401. And it had built up to a substantial amount. And the second one is they bought a home, paid it off. And so we're talking to a guy or gal with a $1.5 million net worth. They got a $600,000 paid-for house, and they got $700,000, $800,000, $900,000 in their 401. And that's the typical millionaire in America today. The first place you get your first $1 to $5 million is investing in your 401. Steadily and getting a home and getting it paid off. So, and 100% of the time, those houses have gone up. Yeah. And 100% of the time, the next-door neighbor renting, his rent went up. Yeah, sure. So the math works against you when you're a renter full-time. You have no control. Yeah. Now that doesn't mean you don't need to rent until you get yourself out of debt. That's right. And get your emergency fund and get rid of your student loan and all that.

You do all of that for rent. But renting for 30 years is a dumb idea. Idea.

Really mathematically dumb. And, and rent less than you can afford.

What should I actually prioritize when buying my first home? A yard versus square footage versus older versus newer, home itself versus the neighborhood?

Yeah, well, it's— again, it's boring. I wish I had something sexy. Location, location, location. I always bought the best home— the worst home on the best street. So I buy as much location as I can afford, and then I go put in the sweat equity to make to make it better.

And so— To do the upgrades and everything, yep.

Fight it, you know, like I understand the home builders, they do a great job and they, it's sexy and they got muffins in the oven and you come through and you drink juice and they got this and they got the designers and whatever else. You wanna buy the ugly duckling in the best neighborhood you can afford. Yep. And fight, bite, and scratch and claw to get it improved.

'Cause that is, I mean, that's the common sense. I feel like, I don't know a ton about all of this, but that is the, you never wanna buy buy top of the neighborhood. You always want to buy on the low. I mean, that is the common sense rule. So do not forget that if you are looking.

Yep. I used to have people say, well, I want to have, you know, I want to buy a house on the ocean and I got a budget for the mountain. You know what I mean? And I said, well, here's my advice. No, I want, I have to have 5,000 square feet. Well, I would say just keep driving south till you can afford something because it's Mexico down there. Okay. So you just keep driving south. You'll be able to afford something soon.

From California.

That's so great. Should I buy or sell by owner to save on commission fees?

Oh, we love this. Just toss that one up to the real estate coach.

Both of us could chew on this one. I'll gnaw on the leg.

Yeah, well, I'll start with this. The average number of first-of-home for sale by owners for 30 years was 12%, and 50% of those were inter-family transfers. Last year, with all the technology and all the Zillow and all the demand, On the other hand, the average for sale by owner was 4% of all sales, and 80% of those were inter-family transfers. Was it an inter-family transfer? You call a lawyer, not a realtor. And the second dynamic is the average real estate agent gets 14% higher sales price than a for sale by owner.

So yeah, go ahead. And they cost 6%. Yeah, yeah. The average real estate commission in America is 6%. And the average— and they get an average of 14% more for the house So you didn't save the commission. No, I—

here's the thing, I can change the oil on my Mercedes too, but, uh, you know, it would cost me more in spilling on the driveway and getting it on my clothes than it would be getting it done in a jiffy loop. So yeah, it's better.

Let's add to that question too, because I had this call the other day I'll tell you about. But how should someone analyze when— how should— if they've got 3 different realtors or 4 different realtors that they're interviewing interviewing real estate agents, how should they analyze which one to pick?

Well, I always start with a referral, right? That's my basis, like someone who's a trusted source, right? You have Ramsey Trusted is the name of your system. You gotta find a referral, someone who's trusted. The next thing is what's their experience? Okay, how many homes you sell last year?

Here's, this will stagger you. This is mind-blowing.

Okay, 64% of all real estate agents have not sold a home this year. This year. Now, you know, that is not who you want to be working with. And, you know, this used to be an 80/20 business. It's become an 85/15. It's heading to a 90/10 business. We had 1.6 million members of the National Association of Realtors 2 years ago. And by January of next year, by January of '28, it'll be 1 million. So 600,000 people are out. And that's because people got in, oh, real estate, I love I love houses. I love people. This looks great.

It's so easy. I'm a frustrated decorator. Okay, good luck with that.

Mm-hmm. Real estate is hard. It's a hell of a lot of work. It's an up at dawn, down at dusk siege.

You have to fight through everything. You work when others don't.

Yeah. Evenings and weekends.

And you sell 50 to 300 houses a year, and then you're qualified.

What does a top agent, like, if you are interviewing, what's a number that they would say, this is how many houses I sold this year, that you're like, ooh, that's a, okay, that feels like a good—

It depends on the average sales price. So if I'm in California, if someone's selling 20 homes a year, their average sales price, $5 million, right? But I'd say, you know, for me, I think they got to be above the $25 transaction threshold across the board. You guys have an even higher threshold. Yeah, we do. For Ramsey Trusted, which is fantastic. Bottom line is they got to be a pro. They got to come with references and they got to tell you, here's who I work with and here's what I've done. And you get a real pro, like, it just— when you get a real pro, you get to sit in the back of the car and they drive you to the airport and it's done for for you, and there's no legal afterbite. There's no disclosure problems. You— when you sell the house, the house is actually sold. You sell the house by yourself, it's not permanently sold. They can come back after you if you don't cross the T's and dot the I's.

It's a big deal. All the title and everything. Yep, yep. That's good. I love it. I love it. Um, how about this question? Okay. How often should I check my homeowner's insurance, the coverage amount? How often would you recheck that?

Well, I mean, Dave will go berserk on this because he's right. I mean, it's just all the time. You know, right now, California, for example, yesterday, they have like what's called a California Fair Plan, which is like a subsidized government freaking insurance policy. And they just went up 29% one day. Oh my gosh. Okay. So you gotta be shopping all the time. You gotta be looking. Same thing. You gotta look, I would say every 90 days now. So if you live on the coast.

The idea of the California socialized homeowner's insurance program program just went up 29%, right?

Because that's what it is. Yes, sir. Yeah, those of us who grew up in Europe and have experienced socialism don't understand why y'all Americans are playing footsie with that stuff.

Wow. Ron Buffini is with us, uh, number one real estate coach and real estate expert. We're going to take your calls and a few more of our questions in this last segment of this hour, coming up.

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Ryan Buffini is with us as well this hour as we're talking real estate. Before we jump to the phones, I'm gonna throw in one other thing right quick. Um, We've noticed and we've talked about on the air here several times in the past 2 years, we've begun noticing and we didn't make the connection initially, the percentage of folks that are living together not married versus married. And if you didn't know, more people live together in America not married than live together married. And that number has been that way for about almost 10 years now. That number crossed about a decade to go. And but what we're seeing is that that's hampering— the data is in now from that because it's been going on long enough— that's hampering people's ability to build wealth. And we're also seeing in Brian's numbers that it's affecting, or it's— I can't tell if it's cause or effect really in these numbers, but it's also showing up in these housing numbers. So the percentage of people buying a home that are married is down. Dramatically. But the percentage of people that are married is down.

Right. Yep.

And so the people that have a double income to buy a home together is down, because two singles buying a home together doesn't count like a married couple for the mortgage company.

Right, right. And it's different issues and different underwriting issues. It's, it's more problematic.

Yeah, because they're getting themselves into a mess. The mortgage company knows that. Their data on it is bad. So, um, I mean, look at it.

In 1960, people under the age of 30, married couples, homeownership rate was 52%. And now, again, less people married, all that kind of stuff. But 2025, the number is 12%. So we've gone from 52% to 12%. And so that's both.

But in 1960, like, 90% of the people living together were married. Rate. Yep, yep. Or more. Yeah, for sure. And so it was the '70s that that shifted, thank you.

And what's funny is women homeowners are up. So women are like, listen, I'm gonna— I'm doing— I'm not buying crypto and sports betting. I'm saving for the future.

I'm not marrying a crypto bro. I'm buying a house.

Yeah, I mean, so they're getting in the market.

At 2.5 times the rate of single men. 2.5 times the rate.

Gosh. Yeah.

And I do wonder from 1960, you know, from even women, like women couldn't probably support themselves the way they, like they couldn't even have a checking account. So, right. So, you know, you could have a checking account, but it wasn't, no, I think you had to be signed, right? It was 1973 when it, that's just the ERA.

But my mother had a checking account. Okay. In the '60s. I remember that.

Didn't it have to be signed by a man though? No, no, absolutely not. ChatGPT.

I really, everything on the internet's not true. Abraham Lincoln said that. That. So yeah, all right. Josh is in Washington, DC.

Hey Josh, how are you? Hey team, how's it going?

Great, man. What's your real estate question for Brian?

So I'll start off by saying my wife and I have a pretty good situation, but we want to tackle this the right way and consider all factors, make sure we aren't missing anything. So we are currently in a rent-to-purchase option agreement, uh, dated back in 2024. We got an appraisal in 2024 on the house. That's the set price on the house. We're set to buy it in December 2027. We'll have about 25 to 30% down ideally with a good amount of cash left over, emergency fund, and then just left over decent amount of cash left over.

You're awesome, man. Way to go. Freaking unicorn. Excellent.

But with this house, uh, the thing is, is if we do buy it, we're going to want to put some money into it. Now we don't really know if we're going to be there that long. Um, it is a— it's a really nice home, but, uh, with good bones, but we haven't really been able to kind of make it our own home because we don't own it.

Yeah, right. That's wise.

So given that, you know, we want be there forever, we're worried— well, quote-unquote worried— that if we put some money into it, we pay the mortgage, that, you know, when we go to sell it, we might either not make our money back, given the fact that, you know, most of the payments upfront are going to be interest-bearing.

Okay, so that's fine. So the question is, what renovation will carry its own weight? Yes. That's what you're looking for. You spend money that multiplies itself. So if you could spend $100 and it raises the value $1,000, we got the right thing. If we spend $10,000 on a pool, nobody else has a pool, the pool's now a liability. You devalued the house rather than increase the value of the house because no one else on the street has one. Agreed?

Yep. Yeah, look— Is a pool a devaluer? Well, it's— here's the thing.

It could in that situation.

So I would say the pool is the lowest resale resale upgrade you can make to a house. Average cost of pool in the United States last year was $72,000. Average resale value, $7,000. So, so here's the thing. If you're going to put money into a house, here's how it works, right? Uh, paint. Now, not just because I'm a painter's son, but paint is $20 in a can, $2,000 on the walls, right? So paint is good. Kitchens and bathrooms. Women buy houses. Men are just tagging along. My father, the day I got married, said to me, son, I gotta tell you some marriage advice. He goes, when your mother and I got married, I made— I— we made an agreement. I would make all the important decisions and she would make all the non-important decisions. And I want you to know, in 47 years, I haven't had an important decision. So women buy houses, dude. So you buy kitchen and bathroom, bathrooms. Yep. You paint.

How would you say you have to— we would have to live in the house to see some value back, given, given our structure?

Typically you'll get your money back in 2 years. Typically you get your money back in 2 years, and the upgrades also add to the speed of the sale. And the speed of the sale— what people don't understand about real estate, the faster you sell a home, the higher the price you get. So kitchens, bathrooms—

you should go ahead and buy the home, or should we—

oh my gosh, yes, buy it.

Can we purchase a house that's a little bigger?

No, you buy that house. You buy that house and get your foot in the door, dude. Absolutely. But the renovations to quote unquote make it your own own. Don't make it your own. Fix it up to sell it. Yeah. As if you were an investor. Now, what would an investor do? They're not going to do renovations that don't add more value than the renovation costs. So, you ask yourself, when we're getting ready to change something, is that something we like, or is that something that's going to add more value than the cost? And you can actually talk to a good real estate agent, and they can come by and tell tell you. Another example typically is, because so much is digital now and is dependent upon pictures and looks, is your curb appeal.

And your photographer. I know that sounds silly, but to get—

A good photographer. Landscaping is a big deal. Yes. I mean, if you've got nasty butt landscaping in front of this thing, please expect that to show up in the picture, right? And that's a few dollars and a lot of sweat. Yep. And you can get that right.

Kitchens, bathrooms, paint the outside, landscaping, and the garage door. Those are all— those all return higher than 100%.

I've heard this about the garage door.

Average garage door is 4 times the resale value. So how funny is that? Why do women wear makeup? So, okay, you know what I'm saying?

Some barns need paint.

Okay, so come on, you know, Lord have mercy on my soul. No, so right. I mean, does it make it more appealing? For sure. So, Minch, problem. Yeah, I've worn makeup.

I put it on my head so it doesn't shine on the camera.

I hope that helps, Josh. I don't know if we helped.

I think that helped. That's it, Josh. That's exactly what you do. So think about the things like that. But you know, you want a unique audio system through a home where no one else in the neighborhood has a unique audio system? You're doing that for you, and you're gonna lose money on that. You're not going to get the money back out that you spend. I mean, if you're in a $200,000 home and you want to put in a 60-inch, $14,000 Sub-Zero refrigerator, you're not going to get your money back on that one. Because most of the people in that neighborhood haven't seen a Sub-Zero. And so, you know, that's what you're thinking about. There. And so what we're trying to say is don't overbuild the neighborhood. Don't do something that's so unique that it doesn't play. Brian Buffini, thank you, brother.

Thank you, Brian. It's always a blast.

Love talking to you folks. Give a lot of hope to people.

We give a lot of hope to people.

I love being part of the best dad-daughter comedy show in America. So it's my favorite.

Well, it's like eating dinner with all of us because we always pull out Google, and I will say 1974, the Equal Credit Opportunity Act was signed and women on their own could get a checking account.

But guess what? But guess what? That wasn't necessary for them to do it. It just required for them to do it. And for them. And so my mother did have a checking account because you're in the '60s because your dad—

no, he didn't.

He didn't have to. I told you it's the best game in town. That's not factual. I am woman, hear me roar. As your business grows, everything becomes more complex. There was a time when Ramsey Solutions had too many disconnected systems and not enough visibility across the business. We wasted too much time chasing information instead of making decisions. That's why we got NetSuite. NetSuite brings your financials, inventory, CRM, CRM, and more together in one place. More than 44,000 businesses run on NetSuite, including Ramsey. And now they're taking the next step with NetSuite Next, making it easier to put AI to work across your entire business. NetSuite Next helps you make the most of your time, automating routine work like forecasting demand and following up on overdue accounts. With NetSuite Next, AI is built into everything you do, so you can ask it questions just like when you're talking to a member of your team. And right now you can try NetSuite Next for free. If your revenue is at least 7 figures, go to netsuite.ai/ramsey. That's netsuite.ai/ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today.

Andrew is with us in Tyler, Texas. Hey, Andrew, how are you?

Hello, sir. I'm doing well. How are you?

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Hey, I'm just wondering, I have like a money anxiety problem, so I'm wondering how I can change my mindset with money. So I can like not be so stressed and anxious about every purchase I make, big or small.

What are you afraid of?

I don't, I don't know. It's, I think it's just like, it's every purchase I make, I'm like, it could be like going out to lunch with friends or bigger purchases of, you know, uh, like furniture.

Okay, so you're buying a $3,000 piece of furniture furniture, and you have anxiety about that. And again, I want you to think about this because you, you probably do know the answer. What is it that you're afraid of when you're buying this? I think I know, but I'll wait for you to figure it out.

And I think it's just like the, the big number. I think it's the, the purchase, and it's like, am I gonna be able to make that money back? Which I is a silly thing to think.

No, it's not silly at all.

That was just classic scarcity mentality.

It's a scarcity mentality, yeah. And that means that you're a saver. It also probably tells me that you're probably a very analytical person, am I right? Yes, sir. You might tend— you tend to overanalyze versus underanalyze all of these things. Yes, sir. Yeah, that's pretty typical. Okay, and so what all that is, is you Do you get emotional satisfaction and joy from saving and stacking cash more than you do from spending it?

Yeah, but I do— I mean, I like to spend money on things that I like to spend money on.

No, you don't. You just told me you had anxiety about it.

Well, when I— I mean, I enjoy like giving gifts to people that I care about.

I didn't say you weren't generous. I said you get more peace from stacking cash than from purchases.

Yeah, that's true. And that's okay.

All right, now that we know that, we now know that the fear is caused because we're depleting the stack of cash to buy the couch. Mm-hmm. And, and I wonder if I'm ever gonna get my cash back. Okay, so when you're facing something like that, I I mean, I wish Dr. John Delony was here to coach you through anxiety, and we'll send you a copy of his book Redefining Anxiety, which is a wonderful read and you'll enjoy it. But he says that anxiety is not a negative thing. It's like the smoke alarm in the house, and the smoke alarm in the house goes off. Well, we don't ignore it and stand there in the flames and burn to the ground. Around, right? But we also look around and go, oh, wait a minute, the battery is low. So when the alarm goes off, we have to decide then, okay, we're— A, we're not going to ignore it. So the anxiety is a good warning sign. It's your body telling you that you're worried about something. That's not a bad thing. Then you say, all right, what, what's going on? Facts are our friends. So what are the facts?

The facts are I I have $3,000 to my name and I just spent that all on a gas grill, so I am by definition stupid. If that's the facts, then you should have anxiety, right? If you have $85,000 in your account and you spend $3,000 on a gas grill, the facts are your life didn't change except now you can cook a steak. Calm down. Those are the facts. And so, if you stop a minute and think about what's the source of this smoke alarm going off and say, "Okay, then what are the facts and am I okay?" And it's attached to something.

Either what was wired into your brain as a kid of how you grew up, something that happened. I don't know, maybe you had your first job and you really were broke and you're like, "I never wanna go back there again," and your body remembers that, right? Or whatever it is, if you can kind of pinpoint that I think is, yeah, is powerful.

If you can go back and find that in the past and see where it is. And so, you know, for instance, I bought and sold and flipped real estate, nothing down real estate, in my 20s and went broke and lost everything. And so if I have a new plan, a bright idea, it scares the pee wadden out of my wife. "Life." And it should, except that for the last 35 years, all my bright ideas have exceeded my dumb ideas. But prior to that, I had one big dumb idea that took us down and we lost everything. So her reaction should be, even today, 35 years later— That's what's up with her stuff.

Yeah, that's right.

Her body remembers that terror of our lights and water being cut off, of us being broke, not having the money hardly to feed our own kids. Rachel was a baby. All of that, her body remembers that. And I, as her spouse, have to understand that and go, "Okay, if this is going too fast, we need to slow down, and she needs to get more information so she understands what we're dealing with, or we don't need to go forward." Because— and we just slow down a little bit. So slow down a little bit, gather your facts, ask where the anxiety is coming from. Is it from a real thing, or is it from a thing that happened early earlier, and it's just reactivating.

Yep, and this is always an interesting, on the scale of money controlling you, and once, on one end of the spectrum, money does become an idol, a god to people, and they use it to feel better about themselves, right? Whether from an income perspective, or what they drive, or the house, or the part of town, like, it becomes this, but they're spending on one end of the spectrum, and it becomes this idol. It has them. It has their identity, everything. And then Andrew's a perfect example on the other end, it has you just as much. Like, you have no freedom. You have no ability to have peace because there's a level of control.

I wanna buy lunch.

I have anxiety. Yeah, to have a level of control. It has you as much as it does the other people, right? And that's where the extremes on the spender and saver, and where you put money on the spectrum of the importance in your life is so important to have that balance in both of those spectrums. Because on either side, it's unhealthy. It becomes a thing that you literally think about 24/7. And it shouldn't be. It shouldn't have a grip on you like that.

No, no, either way. Mm-hmm. Either side.

That's right.

That's right. Neither one. It's almost as if it's not two ends of a spectrum. It's two points on a triangle. And the other point is peace and health.

Right. Yeah, that's fair.

There's one, you can go to that other place and go to peace and health and Yes, yes. Proper view of it and those kinds of things.

Yeah. So I don't want money to have that grip on you, Andrew. Right. So for the good of you, it's almost a spiritual exercise too.

On the shallow end, you've got a great saying I've seen you use, especially on Instagram. It works really well. Is if I buy something, if I'm shallow and I'm worried about myself trying to be something right with what I own or whatever, if you buy something and no one ever sees it. Yes. Would you buy it anyway? And the answer is yes, then you're buying it for the right reasons. If you're buying it to show off, then you're just being shallow.

Inflate, yes.

Yeah, you're just being shallow. And I've done that. I bought stuff to be, to do that. I don't hardly ever do it anymore, but I remember doing that distinctly in my past. And by the way, that's a symptom also that leads to being broke. It leads to get rich quick and it leads to being broke. That end of the spectrum, not Andrews, the other side. Yep.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com. If you're working the Baby Steps, the best and fastest way to do it is using EveryDollar. And that's the best and fastest way to become wealthy using the Baby Steps. It's more than just a budgeting app. It's our Ramsey Plan built right in. You track your progress, you get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation that will help you free up more money and work the plan even faster. It's like having one of us walk with you every day showing you the next right step and holding you accountable. Start EveryDollar for free free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Jamie is in Orlando.

Hi, Jamie, how are you? Hi, everyone. I'm kind of nervous. It's okay. How can we help?

Hello? Hello, how can we help?

Oh no, Jamie, are you there?

Jamie? Jamie, Jamie, Jamie.

All right. Can you guys hear me?

Oh, there she is. Are you there?

Can you hear us? Yes, I lost you guys for a second. Perfect.

I'm so nervous. That's okay. We are good.

What's up? Um, I just want to know if we're rushing into buying a new construction home by selling the condo we regret buying, even if we barely make anything from that sale.

Okay, so you regret— you're in a condo now, you regret buying it, so you want to move to something, and the one you're looking at is a new construction build, and you've already signed up for it.

Uh, we haven't. We're just—

you're in a condo? You don't— yeah. How long, how long have you been in this condo?

Uh, 2 years and a half.

2 and a half years, is that what you said?

Yes. Yes. Okay, what's the rush?

Um, so it— we have a huge HOA fee. Um, the condo needed more repairs than what we expected. Um, and then and we thought we would be able to make a good rental out of it, but because of the HOA and the mortgage, we wouldn't be able to get anything from it. And then my husband and I are thinking of having a kid within the next year, so we might need more space for it. Okay.

You don't buy a house for a kid you don't have, okay? But if you wanna move, that's a different subject.

Um, how much, how much if you sold the condo, do you have any equity in it or would you even—

No, shit, they're gonna break even.

Would you even lose money after commissions and fees and everything after selling?

So what we're trying to get at least is like $2K, um, after paying, uh, commission fees and everything else.

Okay. Do you have any other money saved that would go to the down payment of the new home?

Yes. So we have $57K in savings. Savings. Okay. Um, and then we are currently investing in like 401 and everything else.

Sure.

So what, what's your household income? Uh, household income is $12,300 per month.

Yes.

Is that what hits your account or is that before taxes?

Um, what hits our account monthly.

Okay. Okay. So you're making about $180,000 a year. And, uh, what price range is this new new construction?

Um, $480,000. Okay, and why new construction? Because we were kind of done with all the repairs that this condo needed, so we were like, oh, maybe a new construction is going to have or require less repairs.

Well, um, so would a 2-year-old or a 5-year-old home as well require less repairs. Repairs. So the problem with new construction is you're paying a premium, usually. That's retail. And you probably can get more bang for your buck in used housing, in most cases, not in every case, but I want you to look into that. So yeah, new construction just feels shiny after you've dealt with a ratty condo. And I understand how you get there, but I'm not sure that's your best route. So, but if you want to sell a condo and break even on it and get out, you got $60 grand to go buy something with, and you're making $180, sure, sure, yeah, go make the move. Don't keep the condo though. The condo is not a rental. You have properly assessed that.

And don't, yeah, and don't be under the assumption that a new build is gonna have nothing wrong. Depending on the builder grade and everything, I mean, it's, you never know. So just go in not naive to that.

The builder may cover the things that are wrong wrong, but there's always something wrong. Yeah, I mean, you know, if you build a home, there's always a punch list, and then there's a punch list 30 days later, and then there's another one 30 days later. And that's just part of, you know, building a new home. Expect that. Do not expect this— every single thing on there, every button to work exactly right. It doesn't. Just go ahead and have your expectations proper, and then you'll be easier to work with. Alex is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Alex. How are How are you? Hey, how's it going, sir? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh, so looking to make a career change, um, and I'm not sure if it is the right move at this point or if I should stick it out at my current job. Um, and I'm kind of basing it off of my current income and current savings.

Okay, what do you— what, what is your— how long have you been in your current job?

Uh, I just hit 2 years a few months ago.

That's right. What's What's going on with it?

Um, kind of getting sick of it. It's sales. I am trying to get out of sales, start a different career, um, and kind of spread my wings. I still live at home, so, uh, looking to— what do you make? Branch out elsewhere. Uh, this past year, or year to date, I'm at about $100,000. I should end at—

why do you live at home?

Save money. Friends expensive. Okay, how old are you, Alex? I'm 24 years old. You need to go—

you need to go get your own place and be a man.

I got you.

I got you. Yesterday. Yesterday. You make $100,000 a year. Your mommy doesn't need to fold your underwear. It's time.

I do all my own laundry, cook, and clean. It's just, uh, just being a— you know, being in Columbus, I don't see the point in, uh, I do.

It's called— it's called personal development. And by the way, you're not eligible for dating when you live in your mother's basement either. So, um, yeah, go get you a place. Now, why do you hate sales? I'm just—

I did what I need to do. I made my way.

What do you want to do for a career?

Or, Alex, what do you want to do? I'm looking at analyst roles. I'm looking to go into something that has a little bit more of a career development and growth. Um, and that's kind of really the more, the main point of it. Um, sales, I kind of figured it out.

What are you, what are you selling?

I just, I am in logistics sales. Okay.

All right. Have you found some opportunities as an analyst anywhere that would hire you? Like, have you looked?

Uh, yeah, yeah. I'm currently looking. Um, I haven't really found or landed on anything.

Um, what's your degree in?

International business and Spanish.

All right, you've probably been trained to do some analyst, then. Good. Okay, if you can get a job making what you're making now and move in a different direction that looks like it fits your personality style better, that's okay with me. I don't mind that a bit, but making more, not less. Gotcha. Okay, we don't take a pay cut and call that happiness.

Okay, don't take a pay cut, is what you're saying?

Yeah, exactly. It's not happiness. It's not the definition of happiness. Happiness is— it's not. You need to look for something that you can go apply yourself to and make a living serving others, and that is worth it. So here's the thing, I do want you to pause on the sales thing just a second though, okay? Because the narrative that you're using there— I want you to go get the analyst job because I think that's going to be good for you, and I think you've come to that conclusion. Conclusion. However, I will tell you that more CEOs come out of sales than any other position. Yep, you are correct. Very few of them come out of analyst. Yep. And so just, you know, so as far as— as far as— well, I mean, as far as career development, it's a good— I feel like I tapped out.

No, you haven't. Yeah, it's a good—

if you know how to sell, you can work through any organization and be the best there is in there because you learn people skills and you learn, you learn a little level up, and sales is a great career field. But if it's not for you, that's okay. I'm not mad about that. But I don't want you to use the narrative that I was topped out at sales, because you weren't. You weren't. Or you're not good at sales.

Unless there's some weird pay structure in the company.

Well, you might be topped out in that pay structure, but if you can sell, the doors will open in organizations all the way through for you. Yes. And so, but I think you're gonna probably— listening to you talking to you, I think you're gonna get, you know, good stuff from being an analyst, and I think you ought to go do that. I agree with your analysis, haha, by the analyst.

Hey guys, Rachel Cruze here, and I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people, and way more chances to make memories. More memories. But you know what else there's more of? Spending. Oh, between the extra groceries and gas and camp fees and family trips, it all starts to add up so fast. And before you know it, money stress starts to steal the fun out of everything. And that is why I love the EveryDollar budget app, because it helps you plan your money, track your spending, and find more margin in your budget so that you can put extra cash towards the goals that matter most. Enjoy your summer without the money stress. Download the EveryDollar app in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

The Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by Yrefy. If you've fallen behind on your private student loan payments, every month can feel like you're standing still, because you are. Yrefy helps borrowers explore refinancing options that can help you start making progress again. Go to yrefy.com/ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash ramsey. May not be available in all states.

Today's question comes from Brent in Utah. He said, "I have $300,000 in savings and no debt. I want to invest the money in mutual funds, but I'm not sure if I should dump it in all at once or little by little each month. What's the best play in this scenario?" That's a good question. Well, I would say if there's nothing— the reason I wouldn't is if there's something you're needing to buy and use part of that $300,000 for, or if you need some of that money, maybe hold some of that for that purchase. If there's, you know, if it makes you more comfortable 'cause you're scared or something, you know, we talk to some people and it's like, okay, maybe you do 60/40. But for me, no, if you really do have $300,000 just sitting in savings and you want to invest it, I would, I'd do it tomorrow. So there's no big advantage of little by little. If anything, get in the market as it's doing well. But also, don't look at the market either, because I bet when you put it in, something's gonna happen and it's gonna go down. And so you gotta just forget about it because it's long-term investing at that point.

Yeah, if you can feel comfortable that this is a long-term investment, and if it goes down tomorrow, you're not gonna cry because it's a long-term investment. We're riding the roller coaster down, we're gonna ride it back up, mathematically the answer is put it all in today. There's no mathematical advantage, okay? The S&P 500, the stock market, is up 16% as of this moment since the beginning of the year. However, somewhere back in March, the president decided to bomb Iran, and the stock— if you'd put the stock market in the day before, you'd put $300,000 in the day before you decided to do that, you might have woke up the next morning and your $300,000 was worth $200,000. $270,000, and you'd have had a minor cow. Okay? However, if you didn't pull it out, mm-hmm, and now you're sitting there, and you had put it in at the first of the year, it would be up 16% of $300,000, which would be about $50,000 you would have made since the first of the year. But if you'd have freaked out because the president bombed Iran and the market dropped, you know, after you put the money in in January, January, and he did that in March— took it out—

you would have lost.

Then you would have freaked out, and you would have lost money on the stock market. I'll never invest again. Because you have the worst possible timing on the planet, because you bought while it was high, and when you freaked out when it was low and got out, and of course you lost money then. So the answer is, but if you leave it in, keep your stinking hands off of it, you're much better off to put it in there and forget it. Set it and forget it, and you make serious money. All right, Stephen is in Anchorage, Alaska. Hey Stephen, how are you? Good, how you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve.

What's up? Um, yes, I had a question about long-term investments. Um, you know, what do you think about buying vacant land versus buying stocks or, you know, rentals? I'm not sure if I want to be a landlord.

Vacant land can fall in a whole bunch of different categories, okay? You could buy farmland, you could buy a hunting preserve, you could buy the corner of a busy intersection where they're looking to put a McDonald's someday, a commercial piece of property, right? You could buy land where warehouses could be developed, you could buy land where apartments could be developed. So, you know, all of the— there's a million kinds of different vacant land. So the answer is I don't know, because I don't know what kind of vacant land you're thinking about. So there's certainly a lot of vacant land in Arkansas— or in Alaska. In Arkansas too, but much more in Alaska. And so, as a matter of fact, I was up there fishing last week, and I learned that the federal government reserved land in Alaska Alaska, you could put 6 Texases in it. There's that much of it. It's like 166 million acres in Alaska that is owned by the federal government. It's crazy. So, you know, I don't know about vacant land in Alaska, but I guess if you're in downtown Anchorage— Have you done some research, Stephen? What type of land are we talking about?

Yeah, so I'm actually in on the Kenai Peninsula, um, not quite Anchorage. But, you know, just like little plots to develop for, you know, like, you know, housing, like 1 or 2 acres, or like maybe like a 5-acre lot, you know, that had electricity on it, or I could put electricity.

For residential homes, is that what you're thinking?

Yeah. Okay. Then that would depend on how active the new home market is in that immediate area. Okay? Okay. So in other words, if they're— if half a mile away there's a big subdivision going in and you've got some lot price baseline that you can look at, that's fine. If there's no home building going on in the area but you think you're just gonna walk out there in the middle of a field and somebody's gonna build a house because you want them to, no, you can't build it and they'll come. That's called a Field of Dreams. So no, we don't do that. But I mean, you need to have some trend lines that in the growth pattern of that area that tells you that people are actually going to want to buy this and it's not just your gut feeling?

Yeah, you know, in the last— I've been there about 3 years now and like this year has been— it's as soon as the plot goes for sale, it's sold. That's good. I like that. Super hot market. Okay. There's going to be a big pipeline potentially coming in.

That's good. I like that.

And this will be with cash, Stephen?

Yeah. Yep. Correct. Great. And you're out of debt?

Yeah. Own my own house. I think I have my retirement all done. Okay. Um, yep. Great job.

Yeah. Excellent. Excellent. So when I buy a piece of commercial dirt like that, I'm looking at the growth heading that direction or is already on that direction. And that's what I'm asking you to look at. In that case, land, you're speculating own land. You're buying it not for a 15-year investment, you're buying it for a 2 to 5 year investment.

And it could be a great one in that case.

You might make a lot of money on it. You might double your money on something like that. But it's going to be based— that's the beauty of real estate. But it is going to be based on— the higher the success rate of this is going to be based on your analysis, your correct analysis of what's going on in the neighborhood. Neighborhood and what's really happening, what direction we're really going there. So Rachel's husband and I have done many, many real estate deals together. He owns his own real estate company, runs all of my real estate. And we looked at a piece of ground that could be developed into about 7 lots or 8 lots, and that was about 10 or 15 years ago. And it had a bunch of trash dump dropped on it, and we determined by the time we cleaned it up to get it ready to run a road into and paid for the land that we would not be able to recoup at current lot prices anytime soon. Since then, you know, all these years later, the value of that property went up dramatically, and someone else bought it, cleaned it up, and sold it and made money on it.

But we didn't have more of the— we had a 2 to a 5-year mindset. That person had more of a 10-year or 15-year mindset. And now there's homes built in there.

Some of our best friends live in one of those.

You know the house, you know the property I'm talking about.

Oh yeah, 100%. And there's some nice, big, beautiful homes in it. I mean, it's great.

It turned out to be a good piece of property.

But at the time— Well, and you're speculating. Yeah, totally.

At the time, it didn't make sense in the short term. The only way it made sense was with a 10-year or 15-year horizon. And we didn't want to tie the money up that long on a project like that. Backed away, someone else picked it up, had a longer time horizon and made money with it. So that's what you're looking at. You're trying to analyze just exactly like we did there. And it's okay to walk away from a deal that doesn't fit your objectives and let someone else make the money and look back 15 years later and go, well, that worked out, you know, because it did work out. The property was fine. There wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't tainted. It was just a mess. And, um, uh, so, Anyway, that's what you're doing. You're trying to analyze. And the beautiful thing about real estate is such an imperfect world that that's where the money's made. Your judgment's better than somebody else and you jump on it.

If you pay taxes to the IRS every quarter or run a small business and you're not using a CPA, what are you doing? The more complicated your tax situation gets, the more you need expert help. With a Ramsey Trusted Tax Pro, you can get top-notch service year-round for payroll, bookkeeping, quarterly tax payments, and of course tax filing. Let an expert take the stress off your shoulders. Go to ramseysolutions.com/tax to find a Ramsey Trusted Tax Pro today. That's ramseysolutions.com/tax. Ax. Our Scripture of the Day, Hebrews 13:7, "Remember your leaders who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith." Ronald Reagan said, "Money can't buy you happiness, but it will certainly get you a better Class of Memories. There you go, Rachel. There you go. John is with us in Des Moines. Hi, John, how are you? Doing good, how are you? Better than I deserve.

How can I help? So my question today is, I'm 19 years old, I'm a business owner, first year. I have about $11,000 in debt right now. My question is just, how do I get ahead.

What is your income in your business?

Um, right now I'm projected to make about $45,000 this year. Doing what? Long care and landscaping. Okay, your first year? Yeah, I just started in April.

Okay. Oh, so not even a full year.

So I assume it's growing rapidly?

Um, not as well as I want to, but yeah, it's going pretty— it's going pretty Pretty decent.

What's the 11,000 in cash?

Um, I have about $10,000 on a car and a little less than $1,000 on credit cards.

Okay, well, the simple answer to your question is what you already knew before you called, and that is there's two ends of the equation: the income side and the outgo side. And the difference is margin, the money you've got to play with to get out out of debt. And so as your income goes up and your spending goes down, you have more and more money to become debt-free. Agreed? Yes, sir. So anything you can do to cut your spending— I don't think you're probably overspending, I don't hear that in anything you're telling me— but I think you've got a new business that's not making much money yet. And so I'm gonna make sure, if I'm you, that I'm spending a certain percentage of my week every single week getting new customers customers, not just mowing grass. Okay. If you don't budget a certain percentage of your time every week to do the essential parts of the business, the business will dry up.

Okay.

And that means you got to say, okay, every Friday morning, every Thursday morning, every Wednesday morning, for 4 hours, I'm going to work on getting new customers, or whatever it is, instead of mowing that day. And I don't care, I don't know what it is, but you know, you've gotta budget time out to figure out where are your customers coming from, talking to your existing customers about referrals, picking up the two houses on either side of the last house you mowed the grass for, or the business on either side of the last business you did, the landscaping.

Yeah, if there's a good neighborhood, most neighborhoods these days have some kind of Facebook group or GroupMe or something, right? And if you can ask a homeowner if you've been satisfied, would you mind just leaving a recommendation? Because people are always looking for things. So that's a good way just to get your name out if there's a neighborhood.

Yeah, it turns out the guy that does our landscaping in our home ended up doing the homes on each side of us because he had ours and they asked us who did it.

Right, I understand that. Um, but the one thing is, um, so my, my girl and my son moved down to Atlanta and I'm trying to relocate down there. And I don't know if I should just continue growing or should I try to—

That's a completely different thing than you asked about. Yeah, we didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. So no, I mean, if you're going to move, you need to go build your business down there.

Right. I just don't know how to get ahead to be able to save up to that. I only have about, I only have about $3,500 in cash and about $1,500 of that is the businesses right now.

Yeah, but I mean, when the season's over, you should have some cash piled up. You can load up the lawn mowers and go.

Right. Yeah, I would stack cash right now, John, in order to make that move to be closer to your son. And then you need to have some aggressive goals to get this debt paid off, the $1,000 credit card debt and the car.

And be working all winter to have accounts to start the spring with. Yep. If you're gonna open up down there. But it's actually possible to do that. That, but that's a very aggressive thing. But no, I wouldn't go build a business someplace I'm gonna leave in 2 years. Okay, that's a lot of work for nothing because your customer list's not worth anything in this business. Nobody will buy it because they can just go get your customers. They don't need to ask you. And so, um, no, that's not— you're not building anything that's marketable there. So no, I was maybe working 2 jobs for a bit too, just to make cash till the end, you know, the end of the season, whatever that is in Des Moines. And then I'd be on my way away and get married and let's start a life, me and the wife and the baby, and we're gonna— I'm gonna work all winter at every job I can possibly stack up while I'm trying to get customers to restart my business. You may start your landscaping business in Atlanta as a side hustle after you get a good job there and then grow it again there.

And but that's an okay thing. But no, I would not grow a business where you already are before you leave. Hey, one of the biggest mistakes people make is thinking they can skip having a will because because they're too young, too healthy, or don't own anything. If you're 18, your will helps protect— or older— your will helps protect your family. It gives clear instructions and can keep your loved ones from having to guess what you wanted, and it'll keep them from fighting with each other too. If you are— if you're ready to create one, go to mamabearlegal.com. If you're not sure where to start, whether to use an attorney or Mama Bear, either one's fine. Text quiz to 33789 and we'll help you figure out which which option fits your situation. Don is in Atlanta. Hey Don, what's up?

Hello, you got me?

Yes sir, how can we help?

Hi, so I just talked with my dad recently and he is a listener of you as well. And he, I was talking to him about student loan debt that my wife has of $30,000. And he thought about it for a second and said, hey, what if I just gave you $30,000 and whenever, whenever it comes around to the will of my sister's, you'll just have $30,000 left on, less on there. And he's gonna put that note in the will. Um, do you recommend that? Because I just get money from family member, I figured I'd run it by—

is he gonna, is he gonna bother you after this or is this one and done or is this a control mechanism?

No, this is one and done. He's always been very helpful.

Okay. Alright. Yes, I would accept that gift. I think that's a wonderful offer and a great idea of his. I think it's a great plan. The downside is that you— you said your fiancée? Wife. Your wife. Okay, good. I'm sorry, my wife. I'm sorry, I didn't hear. You did say wife. I goofed. Okay. So you and your wife have to get on a budget and never go in debt again or this will grow back in the form of a car payment or credit card debt or something else. Because it sounds like your dad is the one who dreamed this up. Up, and this is the first time you've ever heard of Ramsey Today.

No, he said his dad's a listener.

His dad is, not Don. Yeah. Uh, well, he introduced me when I was younger, and actually at the beginning of this year, our employer gave us the, uh, the app, the EveryDollar app. So I signed up on that, and we started running the Ramsey plan. Actually, we're 6 months into it now.

Good, good. That's what's helpful.

So I would say, yeah, from— I mean, when you think about it from a math perspective, just like, your inheritance, if it's invested on his end, is going to be growing. And so, I would take it now from that, right? If all the emotional checkboxes or boxes are checked, that it's okay, and it feels like, "Oh, yeah, this isn't gonna be hanging over our head," or, "He's not going to use this against us or feel like he can have a say in our life because he did this," then yeah, I mean, I think that's a very— I think it's very smart.

The trick is for you and your wife then to follow through with the newfound freedom and cause it to build, cause yourself to build wealth. Yes, sir. Yeah, you know, working the Baby Steps, working your EveryDollar app. And so you were ahead of me. I, I misjudged that. I apologize, Don, because you've already been on EveryDollar, your employer furnished it. Sounds like the SmartDollar people are in there helping.

Yeah, and make it a goal to be like, hey, let's invest what it would take us to pay this off. Let's have a goal to have that, that $30,000 invested of your own money, right? So you're re— so you're using your paycheck to build your future. Exactly.

—rather than going, "Oh, we can go buy something now." That's right.

That's right. You know, it's kind of a nod to him.

Like, "Okay, we'll put $30,000 in the market now." And he's gonna be glad he did this. Yes, yes. And you're gonna be glad you did it, and everybody's happy. And we got Sallie Mae on the first bedroom.

And again, that line can be tricky, because when we talk about giving money to family, we never say to loan it, but the giving, if it messes up a relationship, if it gets odd, right? Like, you gotta— you have to have some hard boundaries. But this is one instance where it's like the whole change your family tree. If you can get your kids out of debt and they're not entitled, you know, they're hardworking, they have dignity, and then they can start building with themselves faster. That's part of that generational knowledge, which is so big, that they can fiscally do.

That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to Walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.