Transcript of I've Been Financially Supporting My Boyfriend For Years (He Refuses to Get A Job)

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Normal is broken. Common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. This is the Ramsey Show. Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to have you with us. We have a lovely studio audience today. Fantastic-looking people, full lobby out there. That's fun. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. We'll take your money questions, your work questions. They all go together. We start off with Madison in Salt Lake City. Madison, how can we help today?

Hey there. I've been dealing with some long, ongoing unemployment in my relationship. My partner has been unemployed for two and a half years. Most recently, when taking him through the finances. He shut down, got upset that I was doing things wrong, but that he didn't want to get a job because it would not benefit him. I'd misuse it somehow.

My biggest question is- Hold to the question. Did I hear you say he's not been working for two and a half years, and he said he doesn't want to get a job because it's not beneficial for what? I didn't catch that last part of that sentence.

Of course. He said he didn't want to get a job because it wouldn't benefit him that I would just misuse the money somehow.

Oh, wow. Can I ask another question? Why are you still in this relationship?

We have children together.

Okay, but you're not married?

Correct.

Okay. You can have children together and still not have this cohabitation, resentment bubbling up here. This is a fact.

Okay, but we stopped you. You were about to get to your main question before George and I, because we have lots of thoughts I can already tell you. What is your question?

My main question is, am I being financially abused? But I want to add a layer to that. We did invest in an Airbnb, like remodel and rental together. He spent a lot of his time over one of those years in reworking that house and getting it running. So he says that he's working and he's adding value to the relationship through that.

Is the Airbnb actually making money?

We are in our fifth month, and it's paying the bills, but it's not turning a profit. Well, okay.

Do you have any evidence? Let's say we were in a court of law and I said, Give me evidence that your boyfriend is abusing you financially. What evidence would you give me?

Just the lack of support and provision.

Yeah. I don't think you're being abused, but I don't think semantics matter here. I do think you're being manipulated. That That statement you gave George and I to start off the call where he looked at you with a straight face, presumably, and said with some conviction that a job would not benefit him because you would misuse the money is about as clinical as a case of manipulation I've ever seen. This guy is an absolutely broken human being, and that's not an insult. That's an actual diagnosis. I could insult him. I'm not going because I don't think it helps you. But he's broken. He's deeply broken. He's got to go get some help, and you can't give it to him. I think he needs some boundaries.

I really do. What would you suggest? I can't continue to support you financially.

We are not going to continue our relationship the way it is now. If you aren't going to support me and the children, if we aren't going to support these kids we've made, you're out.

Here's what's easy. His response will be your decision. If he takes ownership and action, there's possible hope and repair for this relationship. If he doesn't, if he plays the blame game, tries to guilt you, if he panics and gets defensive and makes it your problem, well, then you know. You've just confirmed all of your suspicions. Yeah.

Let me flip it, if I might, Madison, just for a moment. Okay. Let's say you had a girlfriend that was in this exact situation, and she told you over lunch or coffee what was going on. What would your advice to her be?

Man, it's tough when you look at it from that perspective. It's definitely shocking. If it was your friend and they were asking you for help, you'd want them to be treated better, 100%.

Yes, which is why I'm keeping you there. What else would you tell her to do?

Counseling. That was the first thing I would go to.

Not a bad idea. What would you tell her to do if the boyfriend or the husband wouldn't go to counseling? What would you tell her to do?

She doesn't have to live that way. I 100% believe that biblically, men should provide and protect. If he's not able to do that, then she's not in a healthy relationship anymore. Yeah.

Wouldn't you, after you left her, wouldn't you in the car wonder what else is going on behind the scenes or what might develop long term if he's doing this over money? What happens when the kids are older and there becomes major decision? Wouldn't you think, Man, there's a whole lot to this onion? Would you think something like that? Yes or no?

Yeah, it definitely opens up a can of worms.

Yeah. Listen, I hope this works out for you, but yeah, you are headed towards abuse. A professional might call it abuse. Neither one of us are mental health professionals, so I don't want to ever- We can't diagnose it clinically. Yeah, I don't want to label it that, but you are being manipulated and it's not okay. So you need to take action right away. He needs very clear boundaries that this is not okay, you don't feel safe, and you're not going to do this with the kids. And it's not a threat, by the way, because I could tell you somebody like this is going to go, Are you threatening me? And you go, No, because see, a threat is what a bully does on the playground. This is not a threat. This is what's going to happen. And don't play the game. Don't get sucked into this. Because if he says something like that, it shouldn't make you feel bad. No, it's not a threat. I'm telling you, we can't keep doing this. And so we go see somebody now. By the way, I'm the only one working, so I'll pay for it. But you could also point out to him in all this, and this is where I want to bring George in really quick, because there's some technical stuff to this that I know you can put some emotional language around.

They aren't married, so he has no right to her money. I want you to bring in the technical aspect as if you were sitting with this couple going, Hey, pal, Sparky, let me give you some realities.

Well, yeah, this is cohabitation, and I don't know what the laws are in Utah. Law about what his rights are and what he's protected and entitled to. But the longer you enable the irrespons, the worse this is going to get. Because here's what's happened. Your generosity has replaced his urgency. Because if you're hungry and you need to eat and no one's going to provide it, you go find some food, don't you?

And he has no right to her money. None.

Correct? If this was in the court of law, they'd go, All right, you guys are going to figure out how to cover the children together. But he's on his own to figure it out.

So one of the things you do right away is we're going to get counseling and we're separating finances. If there's anything you're sharing right now, I would stop that immediately so that he knows you're serious.

Okay.

And then I would say, put up or shut up. Not that way. This is us telling you, but he needs to go to counseling. Then we're going to find out from a professional whether or not he's willing to do the work. This is the ultimate. I love the advice you gave your friend. I think you're a good friend, Madison. I think you got a good head on your shoulders. The reason I put you in that little exercise is sometimes it's very hard, and I appreciate you called George and I today. It's hard for us to give our self advice. But the advice you gave your friend is the advice for yourself. You know what to do, so go do it. We're cheering you on. But this is not just about you anymore. This is about those kiddos. 100%. Take care of you so that you can take care of them. That's the advice today. So sorry you're going through this. George, this is a reason why, 7,000th reason why, that you need to be married, so we've got full commitment. We know what we're getting into. Some skin in the game here. Yeah.

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All right, we go to Toronto next, where Kate is waiting for us. Kate, how can we help today?

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm pretty upset right now about the situation that we're going through. Okay. Basically, my husband borrowed money off the equity line on our house and put it into cryptocurrency. I found out about it, I was not happy, and asked him to sell it right away.

How did that go?

Well, he said that he would, and assured me that it would be back in the bank account by Monday or Tuesday. But he had the flu at the time, was not feeling great. I don't know.

I don't know if that's what he was doing. Dog ate his homework. No. Okay. Got it.

Yeah, I don't know. But in any case, he accidentally pressed the sell short button instead of the sell button, apparently. And so after four or five and it hadn't showed up in the bank account, I asked him about it, and then he admitted to me that he accidentally pressed the wrong button and it had all been liquidated and it's gone.

Where did it go?

Apparently, crypto, the account just kept it.

Okay, so- I don't know. Well, selling short means he- I don't know how it worked. I don't know how it worked. Well, selling short means he borrowed an asset he didn't own, and he sold at the current price, and then he becomes obligated to buy it back later, potentially at a higher price. So this is just gambling in the market, especially in the crypto world. It was already speculation. So it's like double gambling at this point on top of the infidelity that he created by doing this behind your back.

Right. So my question is, is there any way to get that money back, or is it just gone for good?

Well, he'll be obligated to buy it back. And so I don't think that it's gone forever. And he needs to do his due diligence to figure out what he needs to do to get the money back.

Yeah, I just do not know the answer because of him selling it short. Do you got anything You got anything on that?

I don't know the ins and outs of what platform he's using in the wallet.

I'm on the phone with customer service, though. My guess is they got somebody and I'm going, Hey, this is what I did.

But let's just pretend the money's gone. How How much money is gone? Because it's really added to the heelock, this debt.

It's about $250,000.

Okay. You buried the lead there, Kate. Oh, boy.

I need a whole can of Tums for this one, James. This is like the whole can down the hatch. $250,000?

Yes.

Honestly, if James would have let us, we would be patching in this website right now and helping you out. God bless you. You need to be on the phone with them, not us. There's- Bottom line is- There's seven layers to this. There's so much here.

He's like a degenerate gambler at that point if he puts his entire house and family on the block to try to get rich quickly crypto.

Oh.

Yeah, it's very upsetting.

And there's a lot he's not telling you. I'll tell you that. Yeah, I don't know what to do. I'm not saying that he didn't hit a wrong button, but I'm saying that there's a few steps you have to take to do something that idiotic and then say, Oh, the money's gone, babe.

I love spicy George. I hate to tell you this, Kate, but I'm with George. I think this is, you need to go sit with a therapist with me. You owe me this. You put $250,000 on the line here, and I have so many questions, and I'm with George. I find it hard to believe he pressed the wrong button. Now, the reason I give it a chance, George, and you know this because you're sitting next to the guy who if someone was going to do that, it's me.

Yeah, you would be liable to fat finger something, but not at $250,000.

I would think I'd slow down long enough to make sure I hit the right button. But I'm saying there's a chance. I don't want to call him a liar, but boy, My BS meter is just singing right now.

I don't know what's worse, if he didn't know what he was doing or if he knew what he was doing. Both are frightening scenarios.

And either way, we got to approach it the same way, right? Whether If he hit the wrong button in a bonehead move or he didn't, we still have to solve the problem that he did this without your knowledge, and he didn't sell it when you told him to. There's two major gates of trust that he walked through with you.

I'm looking this up to try to help you ask the right questions to him. What do you got? Here's some questions to ask him to confirm today. Are all positions closed? That's number one. Number two, is there any remaining margin exposure? Number three, is this $250,000 a realized loss, meaning it actually happens, or is some of it still in flux? Then what exactly is owed right now? Who is the lender? What's the interest rate? What are the repayment terms? What are the risks here?

Can we do this to give you more assurance, Kate? George, can you get that to Christian?

Yes, we'll email you.

Christian, you can email her this because here's what I actually want Kate to do. I want Kate to get on the phone with the crypto company.

He needs to provide you with screenshots of everything he has. If he can't do that, I don't know that there's a lot of hope for you two because this is a symptom of something much deeper and darker.

But let's hope, Kate, he's telling the truth, and you can take these questions from George. Christian will get them to you, and you are getting on the phone now. You are the private investigator, and if he's nothing to hide, he's got no problem with us. But we can get on the phone with this company and go, Hey, my husband says he hit the sell short button. I got some questions. It's the best we can do. But this is a relationship problem, not a crypto problem.

Are you guys doing well financially otherwise?

Yes, we are.

What's your household income?

He brings in about $300,000 a year.

Okay, and are you working outside the home?

Not currently, no. I used to work as a nurse, but I've been I'm staying home with the kids.

All right, and how much debt do you guys currently have?

Well, that's the other thing that we don't agree on. We have a lot of debt. We have six different properties, four of which are rental properties, one is a vacation house, and then we still have a mortgage on our own house. Okay. And even though he makes good money, it's just all going to pay these mortgages every month.

Well, here's the fun homework he gets to do as a way to rebuild some trust. He's going to start selling off properties like hotcakes to pay off all of this debt. Now. Well, that's my other question. That's like a now thing.

Is that the best thing to do? Because he's wanting to take money out of one of his retirement's account.

No. This guy should not be taking money out of anywhere. I don't know who's paying them $300,000. I wouldn't hire this guy to flip a burger at this point.

He's like a reckless gambler with you all's money.

Yeah, he needs to go to Gamblers Anonymous because every single thing he's doing going, What other shortcut can I take that will put my entire family at risk?

It's really true, George. Kate, here's what's going on, and I think you got to bring this up to him, and certainly with a therapist in the room is what I'm going to suggest here. But, George, here's what I'm seeing. This is a guy who's actually making really good money, $300,000. This is a guy that at some point has gone out and created a professional amount of credibility, and he's getting paid well and can become wealthy off of $300,000.

Without taking any of these risks.

Yet he wants to get rich quick. I think you nailed it. I mean this, Kate, and I'm not beating up on him. I'm saying he's got something in him that a professional can identify to go, why is a guy with $300,000 taking big bets?

Saying, This isn't enough. I need more, and I need it now.

Six properties is massive exposure, massive risk. So, yes, back to your question that you asked George. I'm jumping in here to say, yes, it's the right move because theoretically, you have some equity in those. If you don't have any equity, at least we get rid of the risk and lower the mortgage. Get that out of your life, because now we have a $250,000 debt we didn't have a week ago or whatever it is. So, yes, it's the right strategy. Sell every one of them until this guy gets healed from this appetite for the home run.

There's an addiction here that scares me. There's three stooges of wealth building, Kate, and it's fear, greed, and pride. It sounds like he's got one or all of the above here that's behind all of this, and he needs to come out clean and let it all out into the light to disinfect this entire situation.

Kate, hang on the line. George is going to give you that awesome research. Christian is going to make sure you have it so that you can do your own research and hope this works out.

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Jd, how can we help today?

Hey, can you hear me okay?

I can hear you well. What's going on?

Oh, not much. I just started listening to the show yesterday, and the situation When I come in, I just feel really stuck, and I don't even know where to begin.

Okay. What is making you feel stuck?

I guess I just have a lot of payments that I am responsible for. I owe $31,000, a 28% loan on a $25,000 truck. I owe $16,000 on an RV that's worth maybe seven. I'm willing to sell all this stuff, but I wouldn't be able to get a personal loan to I got to make up the difference.

Okay. Well, here's the good news. You came to the right place. George is going to walk you through this, but you need to have this mindset as he walks you through this. You're actually not stuck. You're not stuck. You're just in a really rotten place that you put yourself in, and you got into it way easier than it's going to be to get out, but you're not stuck. You got to hold on to that. You got me? I got you. All right, George, prove it to him. How does he get unstuck? Truck in his mind?

Well, let's look at the math of this and then figure out the easiest way out, because it might be a solvable problem with your current money, or might need to go sell a bunch of stuff and go get three more jobs. Tell us about your financial picture. How much are you right now?

I'm making between 60 and 80,000 a year. I'm taking home about 44, maybe a little less. It fluctuates, 4,400 every month.

What do you do for a living?

I drive truck. Okay.

And what is your rent?

So my mom owns the house, and the mortgage payment is 850, and I give her 900. And I'm also responsible for the water bill.

Okay. That's a very reasonable rent as far as your income goes. I see on the screen here, it says you're behind on the rent. Why is that?

I think just one thing after another. I pay one month's rent, and then by the time I pay it, it's another month is due immediately. And I just feel like I can't get caught up.

No, where's the other $3,600 going that isn't rent?

$900 for that truck payment that I mentioned, and then $500 for insurance, which is a little ridiculous.

All right, so we'll clear $1,400 just getting rid of this truck?

Yeah. Ideally, that's what I wanted to do. I tried to refinance it. Couldn't do that. And I won't be able to sell it because I don't have six grand to pay off the difference.

You don't right now, but you I could. And I think that's the move. Was this a trade-in, or did you find the private party value?

The private party value is about $25,000.

Okay. And you're saying what do you owe on it? That you owe like 31, you said?

Thirty-one and change, yeah.

Okay. And then what was the other debt?

A RV that I owe 16,000 and change.

And what's that worth?

Maybe seven or 8,000. Then I have $3,500 in credit card debt.

But to George's question, you're also spending freely outside of some of these big payments, too, aren't you?

Yes and no. I prioritize just keeping the house payment made, the bills are behind on bills, so I pay what I can on the bills, and then they're due again. But yeah, I feel like I could settle down a little bit on my finances.

Do you save any money? When was the last time in a month you saved something? It hasn't happened in a long time. Are you open road? What's your truck driving schedule?

I'm home every day. I start in the morning and I get off mid-afternoon.

Okay. Mom owns the house and you're just paying her rent.

She She has a mortgage on the house, and the mortgage payment is 850, and I'm just covering that.

Okay. She's not able to work. Because you said, We are behind on the bills. I thought I heard.

Me and my fiancé.

Oh, No.

So you and your fiancé are living with your mom?

No. My mom lives somewhere else. My mom just inherited the house.

But is the fiancé living in the same house?

No.

Okay, so you live in this house by yourself?

Yeah, just with my fiancé.

I just asked you if you live with your fiancé, and you said no.

Oh, sorry. I thought you were asking if I lived with my mother. I apologize.

No, I did, but we cleared that one. Now we're on this. What does the fiancée do for a living?

She's a CNA. She brings in about 2,000 a month. Is she part-time? She helps. It's technically full-time. It's three days a week, three on, four off.

Can she work more?

Well, it sounds like she's not paying rent at all. Why isn't she? Is she paying any of the housing costs if she's living there?

When I need help with- You do need help.

This is $900.

She gives me what she can. She has a car payment herself. Oh, my gosh. She's also working on paying off medical bills.

Okay. All right. We've done enough diagnosis here. Jd, you have never even sniffed a budget. Even if you sniffed a budget, I don't know that you have the behavioral discipline at this stage to actually honor the budget. So you call it asking for help, right? Yes. What do I do, Ken and George, right? That's correct. All right, here's what you do. You have got to start being disciplined Oakland. You're just spending money like a billionaire, and you don't have anything. And so you actually can't get out of this. All right, George, you've heard all the facts. Give him the tactical, what does he need to do today.

So the baby steps are in this order. Baby step one, $1,000 starter emergency fund. Do you have $1,000 to your name right now across your bank account? No, sir. Okay, that is your first goal, which means the next paycheck that comes in, you are putting that aside, and you're going to cover your four walls If that's all you can cover, that's okay. Because so far, we're behind on the rent, but we're trying to make the debt payments. We've got to cover our four walls first. Now, this is to mom. Now, is mom paying the mortgage, even though you're not paying her? Because you said you're behind on rent, but that's really mom's mortgage.

Well, no, she's not paying it. It's just not getting paid when I don't spend her money.

The mortgage is not getting paid at all. Yeah. So you could get foreclosed closed on.

We haven't gotten to that point yet.

That's where it's headed. I mean, that's what happens when you stop paying your mortgage.

Your fiancée needs to start paying 450. We're splitting this because we're not married. But she needs to be working 40 hours a week. If she's living there, she's paying half the rent until you learn how to do it on your own.

Okay.

And so we need to come up with six grand after that to clear this truck. So you get a thousand bucks in the bank, and then you're going to keep living on rice and beans. You're not doing Jack Squat when you're not working, and you're going to be working a lot. Can you do overtime?

I don't really have that option. No, no.

The answer is- No, no. The answer is- Don't get three other It was then.

You get off in the afternoon. You already let me know that. So now you're not getting off of the truck situation. You're moving into the next job. You need money. You need to work really hard so this is painful for you.

Do you need a car right now to get from A to B, or can you just drive the truck?

Yeah, I have to daily commute to work.

Can you carpool together?

Can the girlfriend, can the fiance not take you? She's got plenty of time.

No, she works 6: 00 PM to 6: 00 AM. I work about 4: 00 AM to about 4: 00 PM.

Okay. Well, you're going to have to figure out a transportation situation out because if you can clear this truck, you can breathe again.

You're in bicycle territory.

And so that $6,000 is your focus after this thousand bucks is saved your small emergency fund. But that's your key to getting out of this. And so far, it's just, well, can't do that because of this, underwater on this. You're going to need to get more money and spend less. And if I looked at your bank statement, I could probably find 48 ways to do it. So hang on the line. We're going to gift you every dollar our budgeting app. It's going to be a coach in your pocket like us, but less yelling and more recommendations for how to find that margin. I'm rooting for you, man. We love you. That's why we are yelling. It's out of love.

I'm not yelling.

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Gentlemen, how are you today?

Doing great. What's going on with you?

I'm loving the fact that Ken called you spicy George, first off.

Thank you. I appreciate. And a word of warning to you, John, he's a little frisky today. He hopped up on Cathy. He walked in before the show started. I knew he was a man on a mission, so careful with George today.

I will have it no other way.

Okay. Great.

To get to my question, I'm in the process of selling my house, and I'll be getting roughly $130, $135,000 for that. I just want to see if I'm planning it right. This will put me in the baby stuff seven. And my girlfriend and I, we have plans to get married, potentially looking at rings and trying to see what the best option would be with that money. So my plan is, and just looking for some feedback. Thank you. Feedback on you from you guys. I'm looking to have 100,000 of that, maybe in a high-yield savings account, maybe investing. That's all I'm asking feedback from We're looking to potentially once we're married and buying a house in no less than four years when she can retire and we'll end up buying something again once we're married. So I'm thinking to put in 100 in it, high yield savings or something else you may recommend for that 4-5 years. And then the rest, just about five grand in emergency fund, some money into a ring and maybe a vacation, like a Ramsey Cruise or something. And then another 20 for a just-in-case car fund. I have a 2010 Toyota Highlander with almost 200,000 miles.

And loving it, just want to see how far it goes, but want to also be prepared. Okay. Any suggestions you might have on what to do, what not to do, right track, etc.

Yeah. Well, I'm curious, how old are you two? Because you're talking about her retiring.

In her job, she can retire at 50. She's 46 and I'm 49.

Okay, so her plan to retire at 50 and not work anymore?

Not work at that job, and then that job will afford us the opportunity to be able to move to a different state. And that's our goal.

Does she have a pension or something with some guaranteed income?

Yeah, she's also going to do some work, but it'll most likely be in a different state. Yeah.

And you're not getting married? When are you getting married? You're not until she retires, or I couldn't understand that.

No, that would be prior to that. We started conversations about that. We looked at rings a couple of weeks ago. So That would happen, most likely, I'm sure, prior to all that.

Then just one follow-up for me. You said put 5,000 in an emergency fund, but you said that this is going to put you in Baby Step seven. Presumably, you have a full emergency fund in Baby Step 3, correct?

Yes. I have 15,000. I'd like to bump it up to 20.

Okay, so I see what you're doing there.

Okay. So 20 total. Baby Step 7 would be a paid-for house. So right now, you would be going back to this four, five, land until we get the house paid off. So that would be your next goal, is to earmark as much of this as you can for that future down payment. Now, if it's going to be guaranteed, Hey, this is five plus years out, you could invest the money in index funds in a How would you count? My gut says you guys will want a place of your own once you're married before that, even before she's retired.

That's a possibility. We don't know. It's in that middle zone where it may be too long to rent, But would we recoup the money if we buy something?

Would you recoup the money if you bought something and sold it and then bought another?

Well, because remember, they're going to move to another state.

Yeah. Well, if you're going to have the house for at least a few years, it could be a good buy, but it may just be worth renting for the peace of mind knowing this is very temporary.

Yeah, and that's where we are. We're not really sure since it is close to that fine year mark.

Is that where you're going? You just sold your house, or you will. Are you going to live with her in her apartment or her house or that she's renting? What was she?

She owns a house as well. I'm living here now. And then she may or may not sell her house here shortly, depending on how it goes. And that's where we're thinking, Well, would we go in and buy a house. Obviously, we're not going to do it under both names, unless or until we're married. But do we buy another house?

I mean, I would just live with her once you guys are married. That's the easier solution. Yeah. Instead of just renting. At least you're building some equity while you two are married, and then you can sell it once you're ready to retire and move elsewhere. I like the idea of parking in a high yield savings account because there's a lot of unknowns right now and we might need this money sooner. And earmark that for your house down payment. If you don't have a good one, Fairwinds is an awesome partner of ours, and they've got a great high-yield savings product. You can jump on a fairwinds. Org/ramsey to get their smart bundle. That includes that. I like a $20,000 emergency fund. I like having this car fund set aside, knowing you're going to do this and you're going to pay cash. So let's not make it a surprise when it happens. Then Ring is definitely the next step. You don't have to go crazy. What are you thinking about spending on a ring?

I knew you were going to get nosy about this.

Well, people, I just... America wants to know.

It's his business. It's his money.

Do I tell America how much I'm spending on a ring?

I mean, it's crazy. I think it's a fair question. You've told us pretty much everything else.

You've told us everything else. I mean, go ahead. What are you thinking?

I'm thinking in the $5,000 range somewhere.

Great.

Oh, George is so happy. I don't know.

So it could be a little more, it could be a little less.

What does that get you these days? What does 5,000 get you?

A wife, if she says yes.

Hopefully something better than from the rare island of Zirconia, that's for sure.

I don't think you know. I don't think you actually know. You don't know, do you?

I have a little bit of an idea. I have a friend who's a diamond wholesaler.

Oh, he's going to get a sick deal.

Dave also says we can always upgrade. We've already talked, besides what we're looking at.

So This is serious. Okay, well, this is great news because you're saying that you have a good idea that the 5,000 is going to make her happy.

It will.

Oh, well, there you go.

We're good. She's very honest in that, but...

All right. Then I like your plan, John. I think you're thinking through this wisely. There's just a lot of variables right now, and so that's my hesitation to put this in the market, not knowing what's going to happen. I mean, you've seen the headlines just this week and everyone's getting spooked and they're selling off and now it's back up to record highs. I think because of that, your heart rate will stay smooth. If you just put it in a high yield savings account for now, you'll get over three % on your 100 grand, which isn't bad.

Great unintentional segue, George.

Tell me more.

Well, we were just talking off the air about the crypto roller coaster. I feel like we need a little update. You have been very public. We, as a show, have been public about crypto and the risks, and we've seen it go down tremendously over the last 72 hours. Looks like it may be stabilizing a little bit today, but who Who knows? What say you, George? This is your chance to crow a little bit.

Well, I'm not here to say the I told you so because- Well, that's not exciting.

I think America would like to hear that.

I'm not going to do it, even though I did tell you so. But here's the thing you got to understand. Bitcoin went over $100,000 and everyone's going, See, you Ramsey guys, you missed out. You told people not to- People were reaching out to me on social saying, Yeah, Ken Coleman and Dave Ramsey, you guys don't have a clue. Yeah. And then it was at 82. Then all of a sudden, it was down to $60,000 for a Bitcoin. Yesterday. Now it's back up to $70, and who knows where it's going to go from here? Nobody knows. All I know is this. The stock market, the S&P 500, is 500 actual companies producing real products and services that have real revenue, and there's shareholders that are trying to increase the value. That's what we're all rooting for. Bitcoin has no true utility. It's not really based on anything except hype and us saying, This is the future, so we should all put our money money there. And then you get a bunch of bros who get spuked and they start selling it off like hotcakes, tanking the value. And this is the problem with speculation. You place the bet and it's the roulette table.

And so it's the reason I don't own any Bitcoin, because I'm already an anxious guy. Don't need to add to it. You don't need it anymore. I'm good with the S&P 500, average 10% return over the long haul. I do the get-rich-slow plan.

What you're telling me is this was not shocking. These were not shocking headlines when we saw crypto on fire.

No. I knew eventually this was going to happen, and maybe it's going to go back up and be a million dollars one day. I don't know the future. All I know is I can control what I can control, and that's investing slowly, wisely. Wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but those who gather little by little will increase it. That's what Proverbs says. That's how I live my life.

That's what we also call a mic drop.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by George Campbell. We're here to help you out. You got money questions, you got professional money-making questions. Those work questions, we're here to help on those as well. 888-825-5225 is the number. 888-825-5225. All right, boy, here we go. Am I hooked on phonics? I always enjoy these. Alita, I believe, is who We're going to in Fayetteville, Arkansas. Tell me I'm right, Alita, please.

You are right. Thank you, Mr. Coleman and Mr. Campbell. Hey.

Thank you for taking my call.

You bet, but no more Mr. It makes us feel old. We won't allow it.

Yeah, Yeah, Ken's already old, so he doesn't need a reminder.

Well, old compared to you.

Compared to most people.

Yeah, that's right. All right, Alita, how can we help?

I've had trouble finding a job in the last 10 years. Ken, I've been looking into your work, and I started your book, The Proximity Principle, and I realized I've been playing the slot machine a lot, but I have a lot of skills in events. Then in 2018, I was certified as a butler, Hoping that would make me specialized to get a job, and I just feel like I am running on the wheel to nowhere.

What are you doing right now for a living?

I am a Canadian who is currently in the States, so I have talked to so many different places at Place Butler, and a lot of them in the States, at least, are saying, You need your green card so we can help you with the immigration side.

That's what I'm working towards. Oh, so you don't have your green card?

I don't. Even in Canada, that's They just don't pay as well, and the cost of living is ridiculous. So I'm like, Well, let's do the States, and it's a better opportunity.

Okay. So even though you have got the certification as a butler, and that's what you really want to do, to be a butler, Yes.

A personal assistant, executive assistant up in that field. Okay.

Well, those are two different things. I must tell you, did you ever watch downtown Abbey?

Yes.

Okay. I love the butler. All right? So when you say butler, that's what I'm thinking. I want to make sure I'm on the same wavelength. Is that what you're talking about? Correct.

So very wealthy- Butlers nowadays...

Go ahead.

Butlers nowadays tend to do multiple things. So they could be your personal assistant and also take care of things around the house or organize the staff.

Okay. And the reason I'm asking that is because that tells me there's a wide range of people. There are certain people that would pay for a personal assistant but would not pay for a butler, correct?

Correct.

Yes. Okay. You're a comedian, which is fascinating to me. I got to do some real digging here. How much are you making on average per month as a comedian, a working comedian?

I'm actually not a comedian. I'm a Canadian.

Oh, good grief. I heard comedian, too. You did? Wow, I'd love to hear some material. Okay, you're Canadian.

I'm so glad because I thought, Here come the old man jokes That's from George, but you heard the same thing.

Yeah, I thought it was like you're trying to be a comedian, but you're looking for a legit Butler job right now. Got you.

All right, got it. Back to the- Oh, no. Okay. So one of my wife's dear friends, one of her closest friends, is a Canadian as well. She's quite funny, just in case anybody wants to know. But she's a Canadian, and she's had so many issues with work visas. So are you telling me that you cannot be a butler or a personal assistant until you get a green card?

Correct. Now, if When they get in the right circles, they have the money that sometimes they can move that process along. So I was hoping that might be the case.

Okay, but what can you do, given the fact that you do not have your green card?

So I'm working to finish off. I have my associate's degree. I was able to take a year off to work here in the States, so that's why I'm in Arkansas. And then this fall, I go back to finish off the bachelor.

Right, but what have you been doing for a living? What are you doing now for pay?

I am an office assistant. Well, I work in a hangar for a company that fixes airplanes and helicopters.

There's no issue with... I guess you're here on a work visa?

Correct. Yeah, you can do a work visa. I specialized in business, is what I figured I would take to encompass my event. I love doing events and banquets and then the butler, so I decided to go for a business major. Okay.

All right. A lot going on here. My advice is somewhat limited if there are limited things that we can do. It looks like you can do what you're doing now. A1 is to get the green card. That's the priority while we're doing these other jobs. It sounds like you've done this, but you're not a typical person who calls me and says, Ken, I'm having a hard time getting a job. You have a limited scope. But the question is, could you be-And the question- Go ahead.

Yeah. The question for you is, because you say it's not what you know, it's who you know are using those people.

A hundred %.

That's assuming you have the legal ability to work, too. There's a different issue here, it's a prerequisite, which is they can't hire you. I truly don't think any, even a high net-worth household is going to go, You know what? We just like you so much. We're going to go through all of this hassle, pay extra, hope that months and months of immigration lawyers can solve this. I just don't think they're going to deal with that. I agree. They're looking to deal with less things. That's why they're hiring you.

It is a challenge for sure. The guy I'm working for currently, he told me, No, let's go for your green card, which was a 24-month wait. We're in the month 19, and he hasn't even started. The last guy, he's like, Let's do it. Six months later, he's like, I can't do it.

Okay, you just gave anecdotal evidence to George's opinion. George is right. Here's the deal. The question is, you love producing live events. The idea of working on live events, you mentioned that multiple times. It feels like the executive assistant stuff is on the list a little bit, but you're a person who loves tasks. You like ideation, making the idea a reality. Sound right? Yes or no? Yes. Okay, so here's the deal. The question is, does the green card prohibit you from doing that type of work? For instance, Ramsey Solutions has, I don't know, five, six, seven event producers that are full-time employees here. Could you be an executive assistant without a green card? I've told you many times, Baley is a company that has sponsored Ramsey Live Events, Entree Leadership. They're based out of Atlanta, but they're hiring people like you all around the country as virtual executive assistants. If I'm sitting with you today in Arkansas, I'm going, Tell me the top five event companies or companies that are putting on some type of corporate event or civic events, or who's doing what you want to do in your area. That's where we start.

Have you made that list?

I've written down a few of them. Some of them are hotels. I did put my name into the White House. Haven't been called up yet, so we're waiting on that one.

No, but that's the lottery that you mentioned. That's exactly what you heard me write about in Proximity Friends. I'm saying, no. Who are the top five event producers? What venues have the most amount of events in Fayetteville, Arkansas? That's where we start. Then we ask the next question, who do I know that works at one of those five places? This is like a little Excel a spreadsheet, or you can do it on a piece of paper if you're old school like me. We start writing it out. We go, Oh, I know Lynn who works over there. I call Lynn up. I go, Lynn, here's my situation. First of all, what's going on over there? What positions do they have? We get it direct from Lynn. We're not going through a website and filling out an application that might as well be spitting in the wind, riding down in a convertible on the interstate. It's just nothing's happening. Let's just methodically go through what I write about in the proximity principle. This is not difficult to do, actually. Just got to show up. In the old match game when you played when you were a kid, we're just going to keep this exercise up.

If it's nothing in Fayetteville, we start looking outside of Fayetteville. The other thing you might want to do is just get serious about maybe a relationship, George. That's how you get that great card.

Hey, that's one way to do it. One way.

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All right, let's go to Rachel in New York City. Rachel, how can we help?

Hi, Ken and George. Thank you for having me on. My husband and I, we've been talking about having a second child. I want to know, how can we balance financial readiness, mental health, and lifestyle priorities when deciding to have another baby?

Okay, that's a very interesting list. Did I hear? Run through those again because I heard commas between all of those. Is that fair? Yes. Okay, so what was the first one? Was it financial readiness?

Financial readiness. Mental health. Mental health, and the third is lifestyle priorities.

And that's all in context of how to balance those things when deciding to have another child?

Yes.

Yeah.

Okay. Well, you have a child now, so you know a lot of that is out the window.

Well, the mental health is not. The financial readiness. I mean, George is not sure you can have mental health while having it, too.

The financial readiness is the one that I can help you control. You're A lifestyle... I don't have a life. I go home and I'm in dad mode until I go to bed. That's my question, Marcus. What are your lifestyle priorities?

Sure. We had our first child in 2022. She'll be turning to this May. I unfortunately did suffer from terrible postpartum depression and only just recently starting to feel like myself again.

Oh, yeah. It can take a long, long time. That's tough.

Yeah. In terms of finances, end of 2025, my husband and I, we've made $225,000 gross. Our average take home pay is about $10,000 a month. With just one child, we are living comfortably. At the end of the month, we're usually left over with a little over $600 in excess that we're currently putting towards retirement, in addition to what we're already contributing. Part of me is nervous to go through postpartum again, but I know I'm just going to miss the financial flexibility that we currently have.

Well, you said you're investing. How much are you currently investing as a percentage of your income?

I do think it's a little more than the 15 % that you guys recommend. My husband, he That's about four or $500 taken out of his paycheck automatically in a $457, and that's dependent on his income because he has overtime. Got it. So his income fluctuates.

Do you guys have any Is that a debt?

No, we're debt-free.

That's fantastic. And you've got savings?

We got savings, yes.

The financial readiness is there.

It's there. That's why I was going to dig in.

My concern about the financial readiness This is when we have to expand, let's say, our current living situation. We live in a two bedroom right now in New York City. If, of course, if we have a second and the second, the same gender as our first, I don't mind staying in the two bedroom, but eventually when we have to upgrade to three, that's where I'm a little concerned. We're lucky that our rent is currently pretty low.

What is it? I'm curious. In New York City.

But, Mark, 1,600 for a two bedroom. Wow.

Why the I have two boys and a girl, so why the need, if it's a different sex, to have different rooms? They're still babies for a while.

They're just- I mean, in the beginning, yes, I agree they could share a room, but eventually, when we need to move out.

Yeah, but how many years would that be? That could be three years from now.

Right. See, that's why I'm asking you that. I'm not trying to talk you out of your decision. I'm just saying how many years before you you would need to have them in separate rooms?

No, the three-year mark would probably be where I'm thinking.

Great.

So again- Cross that bridge when we get there.

Yeah. And then what financial gains are you going to make over that time?

Okay.

My question is more on the health side of things, and I just don't know enough. How much of it is chemical? In other words, I just don't know enough, so it's It may sound silly, but the postpartum, how much of that is chemical in the body versus is it all mental and emotional? And did you get the tools to recover to where you feel like… Do you have a mental health professional who's guiding you through this and giving you advice on this? That's something I would want to know.

I actually didn't get any help when I was going through postpartum. I'm in depression. I was just doing everything on my own.

So we'll prioritize that this time, right? Now that you know, you're going to go, We're going to do all the things we can do, and we're going to shift our money towards making sure that we have the help that you need. Yeah. That would be the conversation in our house.

Rachel, I'm hearing the emotion in you. You struggled, and you just now came up for error recently, right?

I did.

Oh, listen, can I just tell you? I think before I would decide to have another child, I would go talk to a mental health professional and your doctor and go, Hey, what are the chances that with baby number two that I have a similar experience? I just don't know the answer. I think you need to know the answer. The second thing I would ask is, is it something we can treat with medicine? How much of this is chemical where medicine can deal with that? Or how much of it is, I need a really good therapist that if I go through this, that I've got a therapist ahead of time giving me some tools and helping me with this, and someone who's going to walk through it with me this time and not go by myself. If I were your brother, I would say, Hey, Rachel, do this before you guys make the decision to start trying again.

Okay.

Because you don't need to do this alone. So obviously, your heart wants a baby, but you're really sitting here right now. And by the way, I don't blame you. You have real questions about whether or not you could do it again. Yeah? Yeah. Okay, then. I think George has done a great job of saying, financially, you guys are fine. But I think the real crux of this question is, hey, you are amazing. You're superwoman that you did this without medical help, right?

Yeah. I don't know how I did it.

I don't know either. I don't know either because I can't even begin to understand what it does. There's millions of women that are listening to this right now.

They're nodding their head I see you, girl.

They see you. They've been through it. We have no clue. But I do know this. It's not just for you, but you are first and foremost, that you take care of yourself because you know how that's affecting your baby, how it's affecting your husband. It's about you first, but then it's also about them. In making a decision like this, you got to go in fully equipped this time. My hope is it doesn't happen at all, but I just don't know what the medical percentages are, and I think you need to know, don't you? Yes. As you talk to us today, you're not fully equipped. No. So you can't make a decision on that. Now, George is like, Hey, financially, you guys are fine. But the rest of this is really predicated on you and your past experience and what professionals can do to help you. Okay. So, hey, you got some appointments to make, don't you?

Yeah.

You know what? I think there's some community groups, probably in New York, of women that are struggling with it now or have gone through it, and you just came out of it. How about getting involved in one of those?

Yeah? Sounds like an idea.

Come on. Yeah? Okay.

I imagine just raising a baby in New York is already tough enough. Sure. You guys are doing a great job. You have an amazing income. You've stayed out of debt. You've got low rent, which means you have flexibility in your expenses. You talked When you're talking about lifestyle priorities. There's six, seven, eight grand here that we can play with and do what you need to do, take care of yourself. But I think there's wiggle room here as well. I don't think you're going to go, We're so tight every single month.

Rachel, I want you to hear what George just said. George, You're right. You've got money to spend on a therapist or a doctor to help figure this out. Okay?

All right?

You're amazing. Thank you, guys. You're amazing. But no more white knuckling through this, all right? Okay. All right, Rachel. That's really sweet. What a sweet, sweet lady.

This is real, Ken. That's real talk. My wife can attest. She'd be amenning right now if she was listening to that call. You got to take care of your health first. That's why doing the baby steps, having financial peace, allows you the flexibility to focus on your own health. It's hard to do that when you got payments to make.

Could you imagine if Rachel were 300,000 in debt, she's got margin to go take care herself, which is going to allow them to expand their family and be healthy doing it.

She can be more present as a mom.

This is what financial peace actually looks like.

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Today's question comes from Brody in Washington, DC. While I would like to pay off my student loans, I'm not sure it makes the most sense financially. They are currently at 2. 6% interest, and even a monkey can make more by investing rather than paying this off. I owe almost $100,000 on my medical degree debt. I make more than enough to pay it off, but I think it may not be wise to use my money to pay this off with such a low rate. This is classic. Well, you know what a monkey can't do? Go $100,000 into student loan debt. This is true. We can't be comparing ourselves to monkeys. Yeah, take it easy on the monkeys. All monkeys are debt-free. We'll start there. To your question, I get it. On paper, anything with a low interest rate, you could make the case, Well, I could make more by doing XYZ with But you're not thinking about a few things. Number one is risk. We don't know that you will stay employed and have the money to pay this off. We also know that student loans are largely not even bankruptible, thanks to student loan lobbyists keeping it that way.

The other thing you got to think about is there's still a payment to be made. This is still looming in your life as long as it's there. It's living rent-free in your head. You e-mailed in to get the question answered. The truth is, you took this debt out saying, I I will pay this back. You can drag it out as long as you want, truthfully. You can do that, and you'll probably still live to tell the tale. But I think you will live a more peaceful life and you will build more wealth if you just went ahead and knocked it out. And not just slowly. I'm talking aggressively. Because you hopefully are a doctor or in residency. I don't know where you're at in the journey, but you said you have more than enough to pay it off, so pay it off. Because on a balance sheet, you don't actually have that money. If you have 200,000 in debt and you have 100,000 in savings, you're still in the negative. Yeah. And so get rid of the debt.

Love it. All right. I love it. I'm not going to add anything to it. That was so air tight. Gregory is up in Lincoln, Nebraska. Gregory, how can we help today?

Yes. I'm currently on Baby Step 2 and about to start side gig work. My question is, should I be insured with my side gig?

Tell us about the side gig.

I I have multiple trade skills. I work in the trade. Currently, I'm a diesel technician, like my job and everything. But my other skill sets lie in welding and stuff. So I was thinking about starting a mobile welding It's a five gig, and in my area, it's heavy AG. So I know a lot of farmers that could use repairs and everything.

Yeah, I would definitely get insurance. General liability insurance for sure.

Okay, general liability. Okay.

I mean, because this is a high risk gig. Okay. A spark could cause a fire after you leave, right? That could be a problem. Property is damaged, especially if you're mobile. You're on other people's property. Okay. And someone could just say, Hey, I'm suing this guy because he ruined my driveway while he was welding. And so you definitely need the general liability insurance and maybe professional liability as well.

Okay. Is that even without Like, do I need to have a business license and everything?

I would be licensed and bonded. I would go full. I mean, if you're going to be doing this, you got to do it right.

Okay. Like, I don't want this to be my main job.

That's okay. It doesn't have to be. But I would not tie all this to your personal life. I would have set up whatever you need to. I don't know what it is for your situation in your state. I would look into that, of what the proper setup is, if it's an LL I'll see, have a business checking account. It'd be wise to do that as you get this set up, so that the business... At least you have more protections in place if this is through a legitimate business with legitimate insurance Okay, cool. I wouldn't skip it to save money. And I don't think it's going to be that expensive either. So I wouldn't worry about that.

Yeah, what are you- I was just wondering.

Go ahead. No, no, you go ahead.

So I was just wondering just because, I don't know, My wife was wanting me to maybe start a business, but then I'm like, well, it's a side gig. I want to start a landscaping business if I'm going like, mowing yards. I don't know.

Why does your wife want you to start a business?

No, it's not necessarily start a business, but if I'm all in doing it. I have a good job with plenty of room for advancements. It's just instead of one little side gig doing whatever, I can Potentially make more.

So what's the why behind all of this?

Getting out of debt.

Okay, great. Now we have a why. We have a reason to go do this. That's good. And then it becomes the how now. And the how is, All right, I got to set up the I'll see. I'm going to start that. You don't need to go crazy, but you just need a few protections in place so that this doesn't reach into your personal life. Yeah.

Okay.

This is not a lot of money we're talking about. It's a little bit of time. But again, it's more protection so that you can, with peace of mind, go do the welding. It doesn't have to be this full-blown, I have to commit to a PnL statement. No, you keep it simple and just go, I'm going to see if I can get 5-10 welding jobs in a month, or whatever it is you're trying to do. That's the idea. But this is all about just making sure that if something were to happen, that you're protected.

Okay.

Yeah. Appreciate it. And I love that. By the way, I love the spunk. I love this. More people should be doing this, that you're willing to go out and do this. In fact, real quick before we let you go, how much debt do you guys have? What's the total?

Including the house, it's a little over 101,000.

Take the mortgage out. How much do you have?

A little over 17,000.

What do you anticipate making as a welder on the side?

I'm just trying to do another 2,000 a month.

Fantastic.

On top of whatever. Right now, I'm between harvest and planting, so there's no real general overtime. I also don't want to do this forever, so that way.

If you made an additional 2000 a month welding, how much are you guys out of your current income and budget putting towards debt? That's 17,000.

Well, with the minimum payments, we're at $780 a month with all those payments. Then we just started a budget and plan, so cut a bunch of subscriptions and everything. We're currently amping that up right now. We're looking for excess money and stuff like that.

The reason I was walking you through this is, what's the total amount of money now that you guys are in a budget, out of your current income, that we can put extra? Is it $500 a month? Extra, we can put on the $17,000 of debt. We're using the debt snowball. George, I mean, make it an extra two grand.

If you just use side hustle money, you'd be done in about eight months. But if you can use your personal income as well and create margin there, let's make it an audacious goal to go. Could we be done in four or five months with our current income plus the side hustle money? That will really fuel the fire here, no pun intended, as you begin this mobile welding business.

While we're cheering you on and pumping you up and saying, Hey, do this, do this, I'd keep the side hustle going and knock out Baby Step 3. Get that three to six months expenses. Let's go. Keep going. Fast forward that, and now you get to baby step four, George. And mentally, if he's Gazelle with this side hustle, explain what happens to him mentally, emotionally, when he gets baby step two and 3 done in a short order.

Think about that. Then you have all the margin you were throwing at those things now becomes your money to build wealth, to go on vacation, to upgrade the car, to create a maintenance and repair fund. Who knows? Maybe the welding business, you go, I could do this full-time. I'm enjoying it. I can be my own boss. I'm good at this. I could scale this thing. You'll have that flexibility once you're debt-free with the emergency fund.

All right, let's have some fun with that one, George. All right, let's say he does everything you just described, and you realize, wait a second, I think I can make somewhere I'm going to keep our easy round number 50,000 again next year, but I hire a couple of buddies, blah, blah, blah, blah, pay them. Where's that extra 50? How does that fit into investing and really start to compound?

Well, now it's, all right, investing 15%, I'm going to knock out the mortgage, which you guys don't have a huge mortgage. We can knock that out in a few years. Now we're going, We can amp up. We can max out our retirement accounts, invest beyond that, take trips we never dreamed of, be more generous. And so your life just opens up to a whole new realm of possibilities by following these steps.

Gregory, we just looked into your future, and George says you're rich.

The crystal Paul says he's going to be okay.

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Com/ramsey for details. All right, if you are wondering, Where'd all my money go? That's Normal. Normal is broke, but this is the year. How about 2026 being the year that you decide to do something different and live differently and see different results? Get a head start by downloading every dollar. It's more than just a budgeting app. It's like having a personalized Optimize Coach, as George likes to say, in your pocket, right on the phone, like having one of us to answer your question. Of course, you get all the great budgeting applications and all the helps and prompts. This is crazy. They've proven this. I can't believe I've seen it. You'll find thousands of dollars on average that you can save in just the first 15 minutes of giving it a run. So don't go another year feeling broke and stressed. Start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google All right, let's go to John in Los Angeles. John, how can we help?

Hey, gentlemen. Thanks for having me on.

Sure. What's going on today?

So my girlfriend and I, we own a home, and we're pretty much breaking up. And I want to know what's the most fair way to split the net amount from the sale of the home.

Are you both on the title? Yes.

What about the mortgage?

Yes.

All All right. What are you going to sell it for?

We're going to sell it for about 625. We owe about 510 on it. And after closing costs and everything, we're thinking we can walk away with about 95,000.

All right. And let's talk about who put in what. So who paid the down payment, and how much?

So we bought the home almost three years ago. The down payment was $40,000. Down payment closing cost was $40,000. I put in $35, she put in $5.

Okay. Oh, boy.

Oh, boy.

Throughout the time, too, that we've lived here, we've done renovations, and I've We do keep our finances separate. But throughout the time that we've owned a home in the last couple of years, I've put in about 35, 36,000.

On top of your 35?

On top of my 35, And I know the answer, but we have to ask, how much has she put into renovations? Nothing.

Oh, boy. Okay. So you're obviously getting the money that you put into it back. She'll get the money she put into it back, and then you guys could split the rest.

Well, on paper, George.

On paper.

So legally, I mean, legally, we own it 50-50, right? And she gives me a hard time. Then I'm not even going to argue it. I'm just I'm going to say, You know what? Forget it. It is what it is, 50-50. But I just want to make sure that I'm not crazy, because what I think it's fair, and that's the key word, is that I recoup my money. She recoups her money, which is 5,000. And whatever that difference is, we go down 50/50 on that.

That's what I just said, right?

Sorry, I misunderstood.

I did quick math, probably wrong, but I got 70,000 coming back to you, right? Correct. Five to her. Five thousand to her. And so if we walk away with 90, we got 15 to split. So did I pick up you saying, If she gives me a hard time. So you've not talked to her about what we're going to do with the proceeds?

We have not, no.

Do you think it's going to be a shock to her? Where is she at? Where do you think she's at mentally on this?

I think from a mental standpoint, she's It's logical, too. And I think deep down, she knows that's the first thing to do. But I think from an emotional standpoint, she'll give me a fight over that. Well, here we go.

I got to dig. I can't help myself I'm like a moth to a flame. Who broke up with who?

I'm breaking up with her.

Yeah, that's problematic. I still think the numbers are right, but I'm just trying to keep it real. The audience in the lobby is with me.

It's going to be a knockout, drag down fight on the way out.

Were you a gentleman about it?

Yes, we've gone a couple of therapy. We've done, quite honestly, this has been ongoing for three months or so, where I've been ready. Honestly, I've been ready to walk away for three months, but I've also been trying to work it out, too. Okay.

Are we officially done with therapy? The breakup is done. This is all finalized, yes?

It will be pretty soon.

What does the written agreement say, if there is one?

Hold on. How do you just move on so quickly? Well, clearly it's over. It's not. He hasn't done it yet. Is that what I'm hearing?

Correct.

Is she listening to this call?

I hope not.

She's about to find out the hard way.

I hope not.

No, she's not. What's going to happen when you say, Hey, it's over? Is she even going to be willing to sell the house? Because that's another part of this problem. Yeah. Because if I'm her, I'm going to go, I'm squatting. I'm not going anywhere.

Why would you be like that?

Out of just anger. When you're her, that's what you do.

Yeah, I mean, she could, and I don't foresee that happening. I think in good faith, she seemed that I've been given it a shot To give you more details of our relationship, quite honestly, I was ready to propose to her five months ago, six months ago. But I've seen a lot of changes in the last couple of months that made me change my to the point that it's like, I don't want to waste her time or my time. And we shouldn't even have bought this house in the first place.

Well, that we all agree.

Not married. Wish you could have called us before, but you know. Too a little too late. It's fine.

Well, a little too late. But what do you call it? I think, to give you more context, she went to nursing school throughout the time, throughout the last year. So she's an RN now with no debt. And I took over, we were pretty much 50/50 on our bills for the most part. We never... Not to the nickel, but for the most part, the bigger bills. And I sustained our household, too, throughout that time. So I think she's logical, and I think she's fair. So to going back to the point of, if she gets me a hard time of not wanting to sell and all that stuff, I really don't see that. I don't think it would be a nasty breakup. But if it comes down to it, honestly, I make I make decent money, and you want to play that game, go for it. Let's go.

We'll take it to Judge Judy. We'll let her handle it.

Wow, this just went from, you just went from, Hey, if she gives me a hard time, I fold. It's 50-50 to now you're like, Let's go.

It's pony up with some lawyers.

I don't know where this is going, John. Here's the deal. I appreciate you telling us this. Here's my advice on this one. I absolutely believe that you ought to put out what you think is fair, how you choose to debate I'm not going to get in the middle of that. Hope it's not ugly, but I do think you should say, Hey, but I wouldn't do it right away because you've been in counseling and you shared with us. I love that you shared it. But for three months, you've been checked out. She's got to be either blindsided or just knows that this is coming. I don't know which way it's going to go. It doesn't matter to this call other than to say when the breakup is done. You got to give that a little space, George, is what I'm recommending, and then say, We need to sell the house, and here's how I think it ought to go. Maybe a good idea for you to get a session with your therapist who's been counseling the two of you and maybe get some advice on how to maybe play this thing out because that person hopefully has been very, very objective in sitting with the two of you and might be able to help.

That would be the ultimate ideal way to handle it. George, what do you add? What do you delete?

Assuming all of that goes decently well, then it becomes, how are we going to split this? And I just want to know, do you have things documented, your contributions? Is there a written agreement, all of that?

No, no. If she wants to play hardball, legally, I don't have a leg to stand on. And if she wants to play hard, we would have to split it 50-50, and that money is that money.

But it's just, that's a handshake agreement that we would split it 50/50. And what does 50/50 mean, based on contributions? Because you never talked about that, and it's not written.

Sorry. I guess what I'm saying is, going back to your question of, do I have anything written as far as how much I put down, how much I put into renovations? No, and no, I don't. If she wants to play hardball from the net proceeds from the sale of the home, I don't have a leg to stand on. My best case scenario is at that point, we'll split it 50/50 from the net proceeds, and I'm probably out 20, 25,000.

I mean, I would start collecting some receipts of the labor I paid. I mean, you can't just give up now. Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't leave 70 grand on the table.

And I'd be real nice. I mean, real nice in breaking up with her. Yikes. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. Let's go to Zack in Houston, Texas. Zack, what is going on?

Hey, guys. My question is, is it financially okay or responsible for my wife and I to get a golf club membership?

Well, that's just too simple of a question. How are we to know? So let's start here, George. I know that you're itching to start asking questions here. What do you want to know?

I want to know where you're at financially. So do you guys have any debt?

Our only debt is our mortgage on our house.

Okay. Good sign. Zack is looking up so far.

We got one green light. Let's talk about your savings. How much do you have saved?

Saved like liquid?

Yes.

Yeah, about five months worth of emergency fund. Okay.

Another good sign, Zack. Things are looking really good.

Household income?

About 215,000.

Hey. Tell him what he's won, George.

I still need to know more.

You are such a crotchety old man.

Ken is so excited for you to get on the course.

Zack, we're three for three, but I'm going to play this out with George.

Well, I mean, is this a- No, go with your question. Is it 500 bucks a month or is it 200 grand for the initiation? Wait, wait, wait. That's the question.

We'll get to that. What else do you need to know?

I want to know what your net worth is.

Okay. My networth is about 370,000 if you include the equity in the home and retirement account.

Yes. How old of a young guy are you?

My wife and I are 28.

I knew it.

Cool.

Yeah. By the way, good offer?

Yeah, are you good? That's another question.

I'm pretty good, yeah.

What's your handicap?

It's about a 10.

Oh, for heaven's sakes. This guy is chomping in the bed. He's paid his dues.

He needs his membership. Okay, tell us what it's going to cost.

Okay. It has a $1,000 initiation fee.

Oh, for crying out loud. They don't even make those that cheap anymore. It's fantastic, Zack.

The problem is, it's like $500 a month.

Okay. Who cares?

Oh, look at this.

The Georgie boy. I mean, as a percentage of your take on pay. I agree.

But you're worried about the $500 a month. I'm thrilled over the $1,000 initiation. You can't find that. Is this a goat track or a nice It's a pretty nice place.

It's a pretty nice place, but it is semi-private and semi-public.

Okay, well. Are there any minimums as far as food and beverage? Is this a fancy country club vibe?

Clubhouse is really nice, but no, there's no minimums.

Okay. This is an absolute slam dunk. Yes, you can afford this.

The bigger question is, what does she get to do with 500 bucks of fun money a month for her?

I guess whatever she wants, but she's been getting into golf, too, so this would cover both of us.

Whoa.

Thank you. Now we're bonding as a couple. This is wonderful.

I don't like how you quickly went to, What does she get for five?

Why do you got to be so- I'm putting myself in her shoes.

Well, that was my next question. She's in favor of this. Is that right, Zack?

Well, we both grew up really frugal, and so the 500 bucks a month is like a pain to spend.

For your wife as well?

Yes.

But is she for this or is she against it? I know the pain's there, but assuming you've talked about it before this call.

Yes, we did talk about it, and she seemed pretty excited about it.

Oh, well, this is a no-brainer. This is just because you guys have never spent this money on something like this before. It's brand new. But I'm telling you, the first month, I don't know, about day two or three, where you guys go out together and the weather's nice, you're in the golf cart, got a little snack, maybe you hit some good shots that day. It's a distant memory. Your brain will adjust to that spend pretty quickly. Right, George?

Most 28-year-old dudes are spending double that on a truck payment every A month. I want you to feel better about your decision making $215,000 completely debt-free, except for the house. I mean, it's a small percentage of your income of your world. As long as you guys are doing everything else right, you're paying down the mortgage, investing for your future, then the 500 bucks, you'll start flexing that spending muscle to where it doesn't feel as crazy over time.

I got a little something extra here before we let Zack go.

Okay.

Zack, have you thought about the ROI on this $500 a month?

I have not.

Can I tell you? I wrote a book called The Proximity Principle, but forget the book and the title, just the word proximity. You being at places where other wealthy couples, wealthy men, business people are frequenting, and it's the country club. You never know where the conversation's turned. The 6,000 you're going to spend and you gladly do it, and you say, This is about us, this is about recreation, which is good, very well could turn into some huge opportunities in your life. You and your wife, I'm telling you, need to sit down tonight. Whether you believe me or not, I'm right. You hang out at country clubs. Good things happen.

I sadly agree with Ken.

Thank you very much.

I don't go to country clubs, but if I did, I'd be a wealthier man.

Well, I've invited you before. How many times did I invite you to come play golf at Legends, and you never showed up? Once, maybe?

Maybe once. I think after the first one, you went, this guy doesn't have us. He's not coming.

You could have driven the golf cart.

Now that I would do.

Well, we gave you that option. Let's go to James in Dallas, Texas. James, how can we help?

Hey, guys. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. What's going on?

I work a sales job, and so my income fluctuates pretty dramatically throughout the year. I end up making good money, but I have to keep money set aside to go through the lean months. So I'm new to Dave Ramsey, so I do have some debt, and I'm trying to figure out, do I need to keep I keep about six months of expenses in an account. Do I need... Once I pay off my debt, do I need to get an additional six months or so of emergency fund money, or would you guys consider that to be the same? And anything above that number, I go and invest in retirement accounts.

I like keeping them separate. I like what you're doing now. I call it a peaks and valleys fund because you have that low month, you can float by and take it out of there instead of your emergency fund, because we know it's not an emergency. It's not unexpected. I would aim to have both. I like what you're doing. Keep your peaks and valleys fund right now, pay off your debt, then build an emergency fund outside of that. As far as that Peaks and Valleys fund, I would look at 2025 and go, Hey, what was my deficit? What was the biggest deficit I had in a single month. And I would keep that plus a little bit of buffer in there. I don't think you need six months of expenses. That feels over the top. I think you'll see, hey, I didn't have a zero dollar month, but I did have a few months where I I need to pull three grand out to cover my bills. And once you're debt free, your bills also get lower. So that's nice. You can be a little more lean.

And then once I do have my debt paid off and I invest Invest 15% into retirement accounts. I have a mortgage. Should I throw that money at my mortgage, or I've also considered starting a side business but not going into debt with it. What do you think?

Yeah, those are all separate things that are all good to do. So invest 15%. If you have extra money on top of that, throw extra on the principle of your mortgage, and you can start that side business. Just do it with cash, start slow, and as it grows and you get this bonus money, you can throw that at the mortgage, too. Reinvest in the business.

Yeah, I like it.

James. Way to go, man.

Good question. Love that he's doing the disciplined thing here. As a salesperson with that irregular income, you can win with it. Great call, great advice. You got to love it, James, when the ultimate worrier, Mr. Money Anxiety It yourself tells you. I'm carefree. This is what you need to do.

I'm a new man.

Take that to the bank.

Welcome to 2026. Last year is officially in the rear view, and you're fired up to finally make some changes with your money. New year, new goals. We love it. But let's be honest, old you said the exact same thing last January and the January before that. And before you know it, those money goals fizzle out faster than the fleeting flavor of La Croix. So here's the truth. New year motivation only gets you so far. You need an actual plan. And the good news is you don't have to figure it out on your own. Every dollar builds a personalized plan based on your goals and your real life, and it actually coaches you to stick with Plus, the EveryDollars app will help you find extra money hiding in your budget. And trust me, there's always something hiding. The average person finds $3,015 in the first 15 minutes. That's basically like giving yourself a raise and a much happier New Year. So don't let future you down. Make them proud. Go download the EveryDollar budget app and start for free right now.

The Live Like No One Else Cruise is back, folks. For all of you who are living debt-free, we'd love for you to think about and actually join us in the Western Caribbean. Do you say Caribbean or Caribbean, George?

It switches based on my mood, to be honest. It's Caribbean.

It's Caribbean. By the way, I asked the good folks that are natives of the Caribbean, and they told me.

Damn, they said it's Caribbean. It is Pirates of the Caribbean is accurate.

That is correct. That's how you say This is the only cruise where you can hang out with us and Dave for seven days in paradise enjoying poolside chats. Sorry. The way this is written is though you're going to enjoy a poolside chat with Dave.

If that's what you're looking to do, you might be sorely disappointed. It's not going to happen.

I want to go ahead and put that out there. He's not going to sit by the pool and chat with you. George, on the other hand, might.

I'll be tanning, for sure.

George likes to.

You can find Ken on the pickle The pickleball court. Yeah.

As a matter of fact, my favorite thing to do on this boat, it's the same boat that we went on last time, and there's a pickleball court on the top of the ship.

Deloney will be in the workout room. Rachel will be in the spa. You'll know where to find us. Where are you? You can just guess. Where are you?

Are you by the pool?

I'll probably be at the coffee shop, trying out different Espresos.

Yeah, I was going to say, I think the first... My favorite memory of the cruise was day two. I think we were out at sea, as I recall, and I ran into George around the pool, and he had He had so much sunscreen on him. I thought that he had a mask on.

That's my natural skin tone.

You know you're supposed to rub that in. You just slather it on as though someone basted you with mayonnaise.

I figure it works better if it's slathered. That's what I found to be true on Google.

Just rub it in for the rest of us. It was a little alarming. I thought you were having some reaction. But anyway, that was one of my favorite memories. Hey, you don't want to wait. You ready for this? The ship is already over halfway full. And the Neptune suites have already sold out. So take that for what it's worth. Those are sweet. Lock in your spot with a $600 deposit before it's too late. You can click on the link of the show notes or go to ramseysolutions. Com/events. By the way, I will tell you, It was a lot of fun. And I am not a cruise guy, but I had a blast.

The only way I can take a vacation is wait for the next Ramsey Cruise with an infant and toddler. Yeah, you're not- Hey, I got to go for work.

Sorry. By the way, you were not bringing the dogs. No dogs allowed? No dogs on the ship. Nobody wants to see your dogs. Forget it then. Specifically, your dogs. Ryan is up in Kansas City. Ryan, how can we help?

Hey, guys. I'm super excited to talk to you. My wife and I are having a little bit of a disagreement. Uh-oh. I have an opportunity to go for a promotion here in the next couple of months. I am 37, and so my belief is that I should still be going for promotions and fighting hard to improve my career. My wife really wants me to stay where I am. The reason is that I've got a pretty large amount of anxiety that I've had to have bouts with previously from my time in the service. I, in this position, have not had any problems with my anxiety. I have been really great at this job, and it's one of the few things that I feel like I can just do well.

Let me jump in really quick. What do you think are the reasons? Is there some evidence that both you and your wife could agree on as to why you've not experienced these anxiety breakouts and some of the symptoms in this particular job?

Yeah. The easy answer to that is that I've got the team here is great, and my manager is super supportive of me. My manager has a very strong opinion on mental health. He prioritizes it. He also lets me have open-ended goals for me to go after. I'm a project lead, I'm able to pick and choose the projects that I want. These have been big opportunities for me, and I've done very well with them. I think also a little bit of my success has led to my, I guess, my mental health being a lot better.

Okay. Have you been doing therapy this whole time as well?

No.

Have you done therapy before?

No.

I really didn't think it was a problem. Okay, here's the deal. I'll let you off the hook. Okay, but listen, I didn't ask I don't want this for a second for you to feel like I put you in a corner. Here's why I'm asking. Because if you've won and you've had very little anxiety issues in the current role, you just told me why, and you've been able to do that without any Well, because you've had some obviously trauma serving our country, which, by the way, you're a great American. Thank you for serving our country. But if you've been able to do this by the circumstances and certainly the manager and how the manager has led you, these are some good signs. And the question becomes then, if I'm talking to your wife, if I'm you, she's got a real concern for you, but we've got this evidence, and I would want to know if this promotion that I have before me, are the circumstances in the manager going to be similar? That's question number one. So what's the answer?

No, it's going to be a completely different. It's going to be a big change. I would be on a different team, different division, everything.

Okay, but I get that. But have you, in the interview process, asked enough questions to be able to figure out if the workflow will be similar?

I didn't really. I looked into it outside of the interview process. At the next step up, it's going to be a lot more customer-focused, and so I'm going to be customer-facing a lot more. So the expectation is it's going to be very different in my... I I mean, the workload is going to be a lot heavier, which is good, and I don't mind that.

Okay, but my point is, you have evidence that should now become a list. These are the reasons why you think you've not had any anxiety episodes, and you've been able to be pretty healthy mentally in this current role. It doesn't have to be apples to apples, but I do think it's worth digging a little deeper on this, especially with your wife having a concern. I want to bring George in because I think he has a unique perspective on this. Are you listening to this?

Your thoughts on I think there's an assumption that the leap would lead to anxiety. The other part to think about is, okay, let's assume there is going to be, and let's plan ahead for that, and let's figure out how to manage that if it does happen. But I wouldn't skip over this promotion just out of comfort. That also scares me. I think that can lead to a lot of regret on its own end. There's an assumption, too, that the grass is not going to be as green as it is now. I would be asking questions like Ken said, Hey, what's the leadership Leadership style over there? What's the team dynamic like? What is going to be the amount of time I'm interfacing with customers? Then we go, Okay, now we have a better picture. We have some clarity. Is this worth the leap for the added responsibility and paycheck?

Have you talked to your current manager about this promotion?

Yeah. I'm very open with him about everything that I'm looking at.

Here's why I asked the question. I would want to sit with him and go, Hey, you have been phenomenal and created an environment and certainly a workforce flow that has helped me. What do you think about me taking this role? Have you done that?

Yes. His statement was, At your age, you should still be going for promotions. You should still be trying to work your way up the ladder. I agree. But he did tell me, he goes, Hey, this next step is going to add a lot more stress onto you. I know that's something you struggled with in your past. Okay. It's great. If you stay For longer, for longer, there may be options deeper in the future, but I think we've all heard that before.

Yeah. Here's what I'm telling you. I want to bring back around the question I asked you about a therapist. Now is the time for you to actually go get that help, get the tools in place now. Get the tools and go, I just walked into a situation where it really helped me. But if I'm walking in, I need the ability to be able to deal with the past trauma and how that affects me. I would get into therapy Constantly.

Can I ask what the jump in pay is? What are you making now? What would you be making?

Yeah, so I'm making 107, and my wife also makes around the same. And then the jump in pay would be to 120 to about 125. But I've also got disability coming from the army, which is 24K a year.

Wow. That gives you some options. That really helps you progress with your financial future. Do you guys got some goals ahead?

Well, yeah. So I've been listening to the show for two and a half months, and I've always believed that that was a bad thing, but my wife got a brand new truck. We're going to pay that off. And so right now, we're looking to pay that off. And my goal is to have that paid off with in the next year to 18 months.

Nice. You got a new why now. I'm taking this promotion so that we can create financial stability for our family.

And pay off your truck. But I do think you need to seriously address with her what you're going to do to make sure that you have the tools to be able to handle any stress and anxiety with this new role. I think that's a fair question for her, and she's asking because she cares about you.

Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions. Com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions. Com.

All right, in the lobby here at our Ramsey headquarters, we've got Randy and Erika on the debt-free stage. Welcome.

Thank you. Hello.

Where are you guys in from? Boise, Idaho. Boise, Idaho. Okay, welcome, welcome, welcome. All right, let's hear the numbers. How much debt did you pay off?

$380,000 in 13 years.

Over 13 years. Okay. And what was the range of income?

100,000 to 200,000.

Okay. What do you guys do for a living?

I'm a school principal.

I'm an occupational therapist. Okay, wow. Fantastic. All right, so what debt are we talking about? Our house. Oh, one of those people over there.

I had a speaking suspicion. I was like, that amount of money over that amount of time feels like they were knocking out that mortgage.

That's right. That's incredible. What's the house worth? David wanted us to call you weird people. I won't do that. I'll leave that today. I felt like we had to do it. I only say that because I know he's thinking it somewhere. Yes.

We're the weirdest people around right now. That's a fact. All right. What is the house worth? $900,000, approximately. Oh, my goodness. And what do you guys got in your nest egg? Another $700,000. Oh, my goodness. We are looking at Baby Steps Millionaires. That's not even including pensions and cars and who knows what else. That's right. That's It's incredible. Cash.

I want to point out this is a man who's in education. So it can be done. Can it not? Definitely. And you did it. All right. We. That's right. You did it together. So what took place? What was the impetus 13 years ago to They were going to pay our house off. It was the feeling of panic, I guess, would be best to describe what happened. We needed to buy five plane tickets for a funeral for my father. And at that moment, we We had to put it on credit. We just didn't have anything in savings. We never planned anything ahead. We were not prepared for anything. Car broke down, whatever. We would just have to put it on credit. It was a major kick in the stomach knowing we knew this day would come, and we just weren't ready. It was pretty horrible to have to worry about money at that time instead of being with our family. I think from that moment on is when we seriously said, We have got to do something. We got back from that trip, and a friend had done financial peace or knew about Dave Ramsey, and we had no idea who he was.

She talked us into doing the financial peace class. That's when the whole thing started. Did you get the idea from the friend together, or did one of you get it and had to bring it home to the other? No.

It was a parent at my school and I became fast friends. We took the class with them, and then Erica went on to teach a few classes.

Yeah, as soon as it was over, I taught a class at his school. He worked at a Catholic school, so we taught the class there. We were just like, Oh, we just have to... It just helped our fire, just doing that. Sure.

It's hard to not stay accountable when you're teaching the stuff, telling everyone else to do it. You're like, We got to be doing it first. Yeah. That's incredible.

It was tough. In the beginning, when the lesson where you have to cut up your credit cards. He was like, No, not doing that.

This guy's gone too far, this Dave guy.

Oh, I love that. So you're in the class together and that lesson pops up and you're like, Whoa, this is a bridge too far.

It was a gut check. And years ago, Dave said, It's usually one credit card that you have a hard time cutting up. And for me, it was. It was my first credit card. My dad provided it for me. Sure. And I don't know why it had strings attached. It was sentimental. Yeah. Yeah. That was strange. But I cut up the American Express, and we were going.

Right. But every class I remember, it was like, Okay, we need to do that. We had done nothing. I mean, every class, we learned something and then went home and did it. From that moment forward, it just went from there.

How do you stay motivated? Thirteen years. I'm sure there was some fits and starts and some great seasons and some seasons where you're like, We're not making much progress here. What was it like? The season that we really turned it on was COVID. Obviously, as educators, we still showed up.

We were lucky. We were lucky. We still had our jobs. I was a occupational therapist, so I worked in the schools. He was working in the schools. And when others were struggling with no income, we still had ours, and we weren't spending money on anything. And at the same time, he was able to get extra jobs teaching online, teaching night school, doing-Yes, we were school deficient in credits, took a few jobs.

One was a lift operator at our local ski mountain, the worst job I've ever had.

Really? Why is that? I don't know much about that.

You're cold and you're seeing people having a blast skiing in powder, and you're saying, here's your chair.

I'm sitting here. Okay. I was picturing you maybe on some type of lever or joystick. And if somebody was particularly smug Did you just put it, stop, and they fall off? I didn't know if that ever happened. No. Okay. Good, good, good. Yeah.

And Lumber Yard, a lot of jobs. And Erica also.

Good for you. I worked probably for 10 years every weekend doing therapy in rehab settings, like an adult rehab. So I worked in the schools. And then when I had summers and Christmas off, I would pick up work doing extra at adult rehab so that I could make extra income. Yeah. I I always thought it's something I wanted to ask you both, but certainly, Randy, here you are in esteemed position in what you do. Here you are operating a lift, working in a lumber yard. I think there are people that are listening and watching you both right now. George, you mentioned this earlier in the show, you talk about pride, and we all have pride, but pride can really rear its ugly head when you need to swallow your pride and do what it takes. What would you say to people? Because I'm sure you dealt with that. What would you say to people that are feeling that? Because right now they're out driving, delivering something or doing something they feel a little shame over.

There's no feeling like being debt-free. We had our last mortgage payment in September, and we were gitty, and our kids have been so supportive. But you're right, it was a lot of pride swallowing. Erica was always there to say, Let's stay focused. I can distinctly remember a day, it was about 105 working out in the lumbar yard, and flies are everywhere, and I'm thinking, What am I doing? I'm 52 years old, and I'm picking this up.

But I also... Just to add, sorry, I don't mean to stuff on you. When you get your paycheck, though, and you can use that to pay for all the extra principal or all the utilities instead of something else. It helps to take away that. It was brutal getting up at 5: 30 in the morning to go to work for 6 hours. But when I got my paycheck, I felt like I did something and it made a difference.

You got a little dopamine hit. It was. You go, All right, that was worth it. I got some instant gratification here after all my hard work. I just love that Randy is either sweating or freezing with all the side hustles. I know. Could you not pick something a little more temperate?

We got to get this guy an indoor side hustle where the air is regulated.

Ken and I are indoor cats, so we really are.

We don't do well outside of this air-controlled studio. All right, real quick, tell people what the key to get out of debt is. Go ahead, Eric. You have to get to that moment where you are just, like Dave says, sick and tired. When you get there, there's nothing that's going to stop you. You're going to just do it. If you're ready, you're going to do it, and you're going to be gazelle-intense, and it's going to sustain you. You're going to make it there. I love that. Who are some of your biggest supporters on this journey?

Definitely our kids. I got to throw in there. Our kids, they didn't really tune in. They were 24, 22, 20. It didn't hit them until they were going to college, which we cash flowed completely. Where they had Roth set up, they were working, they were putting money in, and then they realized Hey, we're close to being debt-free. They were talking about going to school with a fellow friend who's $100,000 in student debt. That's when it really clicked for them. They've been our biggest-How blessed and privileged if they are. You guys change your family tree. Love it.

I think they realize how lucky they are. All right. I hope so. So this is the moment. You guys have worked so hard. This is the emotional finish line, right? As you get ready for the scream. Here we go. This is fun. We got Randy and Erika from Boise, Idaho. They paid off 380,000 in 13 years, making 100 all the way up to 200,000. Randy, Erica, take it away. Let's hear your debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

We're debt-free. We're debt-free.

There we They did it, George. So fun, isn't it?

I keep thinking of Thomas Jefferson. I'm a great believer in luck. The harder I work, the more luck I have. There it is.

I like that. Even if it's in the lumbar yard or on that ski lift, There you go.

Raising your butt off. Hard work creates luck, and they've created that for themselves. Hey, George Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's Real Estate Homebase is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to ramsey solutions. Com/realestate. That's ramsey solutions. Com/realestate.

Our scripture of the day comes from Romans 13: 8, Oh, no one anything except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. I love you, George.

Thank you. I appreciate that. I love you too, Ken. There you go. No debt, so just love.

That's it. It's all we got between us.

I'll put that on a shirt or stitch it on a pillow.

Our quote of the day from Mark Twain, Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.

That's a sick burn from Twain.

You have to love him because he was the original If Twitter was around, he would be the number one tweeter out there. Bonus points. Little known fact. Some people will care. What is his real-life name?

Oh, I know this in the back of the recesses of my mind. Is it Charles?

I think somebody in the booth. Does somebody in the booth know? I'll give them credit.

All right, hit us.

No, nobody has. It's Samuel Clemens.

Samuel Clements.

Are those keeping score at home? Hey, I like to bless America every once in a while with a little known fact. He can drop at a cocktail party. Maybe. Or not.

A Trivia Night?

Or Trivia Night. Yeah, that could come in handy at your local Applebee's. What was Mark Twain's real name? I see that showing up.

I want to count on my Trivia team. I'm just saying.

Trust me, you do. Strong in the area of political and history and sports. And not bad in entertainment, where I'm a real liability of science and math.

Who does trivia around math? That's the worst trivia night ever.

I don't know. I don't go to these things. Okay. Brooks is up in Chicago. Brooks, how can we help?

Hi, how's it going? Thank you for taking my call.

You bet. What's going on with you?

So I'll just cut right to the Chase short story. At age 34, I was diagnosed with stage 4 positive lung cancer. Oh, my. And I'm 37 now. I have four children. I've been on disability the last year and a half. I did start working in October, just two or three days a week, but back down to one day a week now. But my question is, I have a smart investor pro friend that handles my finances, and we were able to do a viatical settlement on a $500,000 life insurance policy. My cancer is terminal, by the way. So that's why we decided to do it. And we settled with $209,000. We As of today, right now, it's at $228,000 in a brokerage account. And I also have a traditional IRA at $73,000. Over the last 10 years, we've had some debt here and there. But as of today, we are debt free except for our mortgage. So my question is, what do I do with my situation? I can give you my distance, like how much I make a month or whatever you guys need.

How much is on the house mortgage?

284,000. It's valued at 599 as of spring of 2025.

Wow.

Man, this is crazy. This is a heavy one. This is crazy. I know you've been sitting with it. What does your family think about all this? Have you talked to your wife? Because there's some big financial decisions to make here, too.

Yeah, my wife is... She's on board with whatever we decide to do together. We have been in it from day one. We've been together for 20 years, married for 14, high school sweethearts. So whatever decision we do make, we make together.

So what is the fork in the road as far as financial decisions for you?

I guess knowing I have a 10-year-old, 8-year-old, 6-and 3-year-old, what to do with the brokerage account. Do I let it grow until I have enough to pay the house off and then do it? Or do I let that continue to grow? Not knowing exactly. I mean, I know none of us know exactly how many days we have, but knowing that I could have three, five years or less or more.

And what happens with the brokerage account if you would pass?

My wife, it's in the joint brokerage account.

Okay, so it goes straight to her, and then she can use that to pay off the mortgage. So that's one option. Versus taking in there now, throwing it at the mortgage and then using your future income to knock out the mortgage over a period of time.

Yes, correct.

Man, I would personally, if I was in your shoes, I would just hang on to that brokerage account for now. You don't have enough to knock out the mortgage, and so you're still going to have that payment every month. And so I'm totally good with you just waiting. If you have enough to knock out the mortgage and it would just give you guys peace, then I would do that at that point. Okay. What did your smart investor pro say? I'm curious.

I've asked him once before we got the money. I haven't followed up with him yet because we were just letting this grow. But he said to keep hold on to the money as well and let it grow.

Okay. Cool. Yeah, I like that plan. There's just a lot of variables coming up, and who knows how they'll use that money and what income stream they will have after that. Have you guys thought about that portion? Will any of her disability or your disability go to her?

She should be able to draw off my disability, yes, if I pass. If I understand the laws and everything right. And then the kids also, it's about, they get about $1,000 a month.

Okay, that's great. I would make sure to do your due diligence on how the future income is going to happen. That's more important than just solving the mortgage problem. You want to make sure they can cover all their expenses with or without the mortgage. But man, these are You don't want to be making these decisions with your diagnosis. I'm so sorry to hear, and I'm wishing you the best, the longest life you can have and the best time you can have with your family. Yeah.

Brooks, we're so very sorry. You're just so strong. It's unbelievable that we're even having this conversation with you. You sound like you just got a great frame of mind given this unimaginable situation you're dealing with. So, yeah, this is a lot of communication over these things. Seek the counsel of many. Make decisions as best you can without any time of fear, but just say, All right, we're going to make the best decision we can make for the future, and let the chips fall where they may. So sorry you're dealing with this. Thank you for sharing a bit of your story with us, Brooks. So unbelievable there. Let's go to Chris now in Atlanta, Georgia. Chris, how can we help?

Hey, how's it going? Thanks for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

So I am about $20,000 in the hole on my current vehicle, and I'm getting ready to sell my house. I just moved to Georgia from Michigan Again, I'm closing on Monday. I'm going to net about $66,000. Okay. And so I'm just wondering, should I just bite the bullet and get rid of this truck What's the truck worth? It's worth about 35. I just recently got it appraised, and I owe 53.

Okay. And what's your income?

Right now, about 60,000.

Yeah, this truck has to go, man. If you are making 200 grand and you love the truck, I would say, Hey, just pay it off with the net proceeds of the house and be done. But this truck is just much of your world.

Yeah, I was making closer to six figures when I originally bought it, but that changed.

What's the payment on it and the insurance?

It is $900 a month for the payment and another $230 for the insurance.

So here's the good news. You are going to take a hit, and if you can sell it private party, get as much as you can for it, it'll be less of a hit. But that 66K net is going to turn into 46K and you'll clear the loan and the mortgage, sorry, the insurance, which frees you up 1100 bucks a month for the rest of your life. And then with the other money, you're probably going to need something to drive. So let's get a $10,000 car, $15,000 car in cash, and then whatever money is left becomes our emergency fund.

Well, I'm hoping to buy another house down here in Georgia.

Not anytime soon. With what money? Because once you cover the deficit, get an emergency fund and buy a different car, that money has been earmarked. If you do it this way, now we'll have a clean slate, financial foundation. We'll never need to go into debt again. Then we can begin saving up a down payment. But making 60 grand, it's going to take a while to buy a house where you're going, and that's okay. Move slow. The reason we're here today is because we moved fast and made a lot of assumptions. Let's create some financial peace.

You can do it, Chris. Hang in there. Freedom is on the other side of all this. Thanks for the call. Remember, folks, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.