Transcript of Face the Debt You’ve Been Avoiding

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. We're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney. We're answering your calls at 888-825-5225. All right, first up, we have Kate in Indianapolis. Hi, Kate. Welcome to the show.

Hi, John and Rachel.

Hello. Hello. How can we help today?

Yeah. I'm a stay-at-home mom. I have a one-year-old, and I have another baby due in July. I've been married four years. And my husband just sat down with me in the last two weeks and revealed to me that he took out $350,000 in loans, and he lost it all. He was using it to invest in day trading. Oh my God. And so it was a real, real shock to me. I just would like some direction from you guys or some answers as to what you think I should do in all aspects. Should I get a job? You know, marriage advice, stuff like that.

God, Kate, I'm so sorry. When did you find this out?

It was a little over a a week ago.

How did you find out? Did he come to you and tell you, or did you find something?

He came to me and told me. Oh my God. And I did discover that it has been going on our whole marriage. I just found that out last night before there.

So where was he getting these loans from?

So my husband is a self-employed. He started his own business like two years ago, and his business has done really well, and we would have been fine. Our business was successful. He does excavation, and I don't know, I'm still not at the bottom of the purpose of doing that. But anyway, his business was doing really well, and so that's why he was able to get such loans, if that makes sense.

So he took out business loans? Yes. Or he told banks, I'm borrowing this money from my business, and then they traded it. So he committed a crime, too?

I wasn't aware that was a crime.

It's fraud. Okay. If I go to a bank and say, Hey, I want to open a restaurant, and they go, Cool, and they give me money for my restaurant, and I go, They trade it? Yeah, that's fraud.

I'm not sure if it's a business loan. I just know he has three loans, and I know the names of the places he has them through.

So you don't know if it's a personal loan or a small business loan?

I know that some of them are... I think they're- I mean, they'll all be personal.

I'm not sure. Yeah, but you're not taking it out on the business, to John's point.

Okay.

Gosh, Kate. How much do you guys make a year?

He pays himself as a W2 employee with his company, and he... 60,000 a year, is how he does it. Jeez. Okay. We will be filing bankruptcy in March. It's not even optional. There's no way out.

Yeah. Have you guys spoken to an attorney?

We have, and that was That was the question I had. Should I get a job? My husband doesn't think it's in my best interest to get a job because he thinks it actually might hurt the situation more than help it.

Because you're what? Like showing more income or something?

Because we file our taxes jointly, and so he thinks it's going to increase our household income.

Dude, you're so far past that situation. Here's what getting a job would do for you right now. The world you knew as of two weeks ago doesn't exist anymore. The integrity of the man you anchored your life to doesn't exist anymore. And you owning that reality is really important.

I understand that.

And taking money advice, and well, it's going to bracket us from the person that just did that. That's like your spouse cheating on you and then giving you dating advice. You know what I mean? I'm not taking that advice from you in this moment right now.

Well, you guys are much smarter and wiser than I, so what do you have to say? I'm not sure.

We call it financial infidelity. Yeah.

Yeah. So, Kate, if I were you, I would be separating everything right now because this part of your marriage no longer has trust, right? And John can talk about what it looks like to rebuild that. But for you, and you're expecting, right, a baby?

Correct. Yes. And I already have a one-year-old.

Yeah. Probably what I would probably do today is I would go down to the bank and get a separate checking account. And when he pays himself, I would split it 50/50 and just have your own money in an account for right now. Then you guys need to look at what it looks like going forward because for you, to what John's saying is creating safety for you, Kate, is what I'm looking for here in a financial situation. Now, you having a baby and being pregnant like that, it does. It adds so many complexities because you go and put the kid in daycare and try to get a part-time job. I mean, realistically, probably not. Like, daycare is going to cost as much as... You know what I mean? I know how expensive that stuff is. So what I would do probably right now is I would tell him I need 50 % of the paycheck, and I'm having my own account. Because you need to start rebuilding your own side of the finances in marriage. And then unless Unless you guys can get to a point where you are rebuilding your marriage and the trust of the money comes after all of that, but you're going to probably be in a holding pattern for a bit.

I would want every login information. I would have every account. I would freeze his credit so he can't go and borrow more. Okay.

That's freeze yours, too.

Freeze yours. Your child's, too. People take out loans in their kids' names and commit fraud that Okay. And the thing with what he's done, and obviously, we don't know him, and John, you probably could speak this way better than I could. But when you find yourself in a hole that deep, you almost become crazy. You start to make decisions that aren't even rational to Out of the freak out of trying to get yourself out of this much of a mess.

You go into survival. You're not thinking anymore.

Yeah, there's no rational. So him- It's not an excuse, but it's a contact.

Yeah.

So him taking money out on one-year-old, most people are like, That would be crazy. I'm like, Yeah, but he would be in that desperate situation that he'd probably go and do things like that, right? So you're just trying to, at this point, I would put as much protection around yourself from a cash flow perspective that's realistic and that he can't tap into anything else. And I would make sure you have every login account. Do you guys have Do you have investments? When you file bankruptcy, they're going to be taking it. So much.

Do they- You're talking about what investments as far as- Like 401k, Roth IRAs.

Do you guys have any of those?

He does. Okay, so I I don't have one, but it's just in my name, so they're not going to touch it because all the loans are in his name, not mine.

So I would even get just the- I don't know if that's how that works. The login information on all of that. Do you know what I mean? I would get as much information as you can to have access to what you need to get to if the time comes.

You just explained it. You learned something two weeks ago, and then you found something out last night. I think I can probably count on one hand the number of times somebody has come forward with a spouse and said, Hey, I screwed up. I've been cheating I screwed up with our money. I haven't been employed for a year, whatever. And they get the whole story the first time out. So for you, I would predict that there are going to be waves of you uncovering and finding things out. And so the conversation you begin with your husband starts like this: You, husband, have burned our trust to the ground. For the next seven days, here's a roadmap that I want you to follow that we can start practicing in teeny, tiny, tiny little ways to rebuild trust. I want every login. I want our credit reports. I want my own checking account. And then seven days from now, you're going to give him another roadmap, very clear, that he can follow. And then he gets to decide whether he's going to follow that or not.

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Hi, Marshall. Hi, how are you? We're doing great. How can we help today?

Well, I have about $50,000 in debt and about a $92,000 mortgage, and I have a little bit in savings because my wife had some medical issues that we are still waiting on the bills on. So I didn't know the best way to handle upcoming bills that we don't know the totals on.

Okay. What's the medical issue? What's going on?

She's having some heart issues. She's seeing the cardiologist and other things like that.

Okay. How much you guys have saved for that?

I have $8,000 in savings right now. Okay.

And are you guys at the beginning of this, or these will be final medical bills once they hit?

It's still going on. She's still seeing the doctors.

Okay. The 50K in debt, can you break that down for me?

What each- That is $18,000 on a truck and I spend $32,000 in student loans.

Okay. How much you guys make a year?

Right now, she's in nursing school. I don't know, yearly, but I make $864 a week.

Okay, so what do you guys bring home a month? What hits your checking account each month?

Almost $4,000.

Four thousand. Okay. I mean, honestly, Marshall, just seeing everything right now, I would sell the truck.

Okay.

Yeah. How much could you get for it, do you think?

Maybe 30.

You could get 30 for it?

Probably.

Oh, my gosh. All day.

It's pretty new. I've been paying a lot extra on it every month.

Sell it this weekend.

I could probably have it paid off in the next six months.

You could get it paid off in the next six months?

If I depleted the savings, and I also have 10,000 in retirement that I was told I could pull out it today.

No, no, no, no, no, her debt. So I would leave that $10,000 there. That's not worth the truck at this point.

Because she's also in school right now, and we'll start working come May when she graduates nursing school.

In May. Okay. What will she... Does she have any idea what she'll be making?

Forty-something an hour.

But I mean, that's assuming she doesn't have heart troubles, and she doesn't have medical issues, right?

Correct.

Yeah. Yeah.

There's just a lot of what ifs down the road. I would act on what you have in your hand right now.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I mean, honestly, if you could get 30 for it, that's unbelievable. I mean, I would take it. And then, I mean, I would spend maybe- Five grand. Five, six grand. Yeah, four grand, whatever you can just to get something significantly cheaper, obviously. Okay. And then, yeah. I mean, and then out of that, you'll have probably 10-ish left over, 8 to 10,000, and then throw that at the student loans, and you'll be down to, at that point, probably 22 to $24,000, which is amazing. That's a significant jump. You just basically cut everything in half, debt-wise.

Yeah. And then if in 24 months, if she's making 40 bucks an hour and you keep working hard, then go get whatever truck you want, man. You can just write a check for it. Yeah. Okay.

Sounds good. I appreciate. Thank you.

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Marshall. All right, let's go to Joseph in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi, Joseph. Welcome to the show. Hey, guys. How are you doing? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

So my wife, Tali, and I are moving to Columbia, South Carolina in mid-March. We're actually in Texas right now. We want to buy a house on a VA loan, and we want to do this for two reasons. So one, we want to start building equity on real estate, and in Columbia, it's cheaper to buy than it is to rent in terms of monthly mortgage. Here are the caveats. We still are $40,000 in debt between two cars and her subsidized student loans. And we do have around 16,000 in our joint brokerage in our high yield savings. But I was wondering if you guys have any advice moving forward for us.

Don't do anything you're about to do.

Don't buy a home.

You're going to hate art. You're going to be mad that you call this.

I know, because when broke people buy houses, they become broker, is what happens. So, yeah, the monthly payment may not be, but when the roof leaks and the water goes out, and then life starts happening as a homeowner, you guys have no money.

Or put it this way, you want to build equity on one side of the equation, and at the exact same time, you're paying a fixed interest rate on a depreciating asset on two different cars on the other side of this teeter totter, right? All right. Okay. So it's like, I want to fill this bathtub up really high, and I just shot two holes in the back of it.

Yeah.

Okay. So it's like getting your whole house I would say that. Get your whole house in order. And then, man, if you guys move with focused intensity, you'll be saving up and get a down payment in no time.

Yeah. And moving to a new city anyways, Joseph, we always recommend just rent for a year just to get the bear things. I mean, Columbia is such a great city, but I even think about Nashville.

When I moved to Nashville, my wife and I rented for a year.

Yes. There's so many different parts and neighborhoods, and you're just like, Okay, what side of the city do we live on? What does commute look like? What does traffic look like? There's so many things to consider when you buy a home. I mean, that's such a long-term purchase, and to rush into something in the name of building equity, right? It's the wrong approach is what's happening. You're going from the other end. So you guys moving, rent for a year. How much will you guys be making?

So between the two of us, we make about 160 per year.

Amazing.

Yeah, she makes about 75. I make about 90, give or take, if the year is good.

Will you make that same amount in South Carolina?

Yeah. I mean, I work from home as a civil engineer, and she's in the Air Force.

Amazing. Okay, so here's what I would do, Joseph, honestly. If I were you guys... Do you guys have kids?

No, not yet.

No? Okay. So, yeah, I would go. Go to Columbia. I would rent for a year. I would take my 16,000, and I would throw it at the smallest dad. What do you owe on the cars?

I owe about 20,000 on my truck, and she owes about 15,000 to a Navy federal loan we took out for a used Atlas.

Okay. And then what's the student loans?

I think it's about 10,000.

10,000 there. Okay. So I would throw 10,000 of the student loans tonight, just get those knocked out completely. And then you'll have $5,000. Because I want you to keep $1,000 as an emergency fund. Take her car down to $10,000. Okay, so then you guys have $30,000 left in debt. And what I would do is you guys make 160. I would live on $60. Like, live on nothing. Like, get a crappy one-bedroom apartment, have no lifestyle, and you would... A hundred grand, right? So you go... I mean, of course, this is before taxes. But the idea is that you pay off all the debt. You'll have $70,000. Part of that will be an emergency fund, and then part of that's an amazing start to a down payment. And then you do that even for not even one more year, six more months, and get at least a 5% down payment. I would avoid the VA loan. There's so many fees. It's not a great option. I would just do a traditional mortgage, 15-year fixed rate mortgage, and put at least 5% down on a home. I think, Joseph, you can do all of this in 18 to 24 months.

Pay off all your debt, get an emergency fund, get a down payment. I promise you, the piece you will have doing that, having no payments, no debt, no risk, a A fully-funded emergency fund heading into homeownership, that is so much more of an enjoyable process than having two car loans, student loans, not a ton of savings that could be wiped out in a second. You know what I mean? And you're just living on the edge there. So, yeah, that's what I would do.

Sure. Thanks, guys.

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for the call.

We had to tell two people to sell their cars.

I don't know if they're going to do it. I don't know if they're going to do it. Neither of them are going to do it. No, I wouldn't tell them to sell it. They can pay theirs off. Yeah. Joseph, I can. Yeah. Yeah, because they'll get hers down to 10, and then they have his $20,000 truck, but they make 160.

I mean, they can- They can.

You're always about selling stuff.

No, I just don't. I think when somebody gets their mind set on, I'm going to buy a house no matter what. He's going to. It's so hard to back up and say, I'm going to do that, but in two years.

Yes.

And it's so hard on this side of the equation to be like, I'm telling you that 24 months is so worth it. It's It's so worth it. It's so worth it. And it's almost like someone has to go through it. And then their car that they owe a payment on breaks down and they roll that negative equity, and they're going to call us back in two years, and they're going to be like, Man, I should have listened.

I know. Joseph, you may not take the advice, but I'd implore you, don't buy a house.

Bro, you are 18 months away from changing your life forever in a positive direction. Hang in there, man.

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Well, we know that through work here, surveys, studying people, all the situations- What are you talking about? There are so many people, though, in their marriages that are frustrated, they're overwhelmed, they're lonely, and we have the answer for you. We've got it. We've got the whole answer, yeah.

Let me say this. For years, I pushed back on this. I said, I don't I think we could get something that would help in the way that I think people need help. And the zeros and ones guys here, we've been working for a couple of years now, and what they've come up with is unbelievable.

Is unbelievable. We have a new app. John Deloney has a new app out.

Yeah, it's called the Together app, and it's in the Apple Store. Android folks take 30% off. We're going to make one for you. We're working on it, but it's cool. But right now, it's in the app store, and it is incredible. It's microhabits for your marriage. It will walk with you on daily habits, and it will learn you, and you get to decide what avenue you want to take, where you want to focus on, whether you got small kids, whether you're dealing with mental load, whether you got a partner who's just completely unplug, all of it. And it is incredible. It's so good. And here's my favorite part. Besides that, it's awesome. My favorite part is we We walked into this thing knowing that everybody's struggling financially. And so instead of saying, We want to do all of this stuff, and it's going to cost $100 million, we started with, It cannot be more than six bucks a month for both of you. And so this app works. If you are the only one working on your marriage, it works with just one player mode, but you can bring your spouse along for no extra charge.

And so it's a cup of coffee a month to literally transform your marriage, not in big fire work shows, but in daily micro habit change. And the feedback has been astounding. It's been awesome.

Yeah, because you guys have had people-We've been thousands and thousands of people we've been testing it. And the amount of tweaking and doing, I mean, all of it. It's incredible. It's amazing. Yeah. And what's so funny is It is an app, so you're on your phone, but it gets you off your phone in order to do it.

The purpose is to get off your phone and to actually not think about... Go do this thing- Action-based. For your spouse, for your marriage, for you. So good. And it's transformational. It's called the Together app, you can search The Together app in the app store, and it's a cup of coffee a month. And you can bring your spouse with you for the same price.

Let me just say this, John. It is for couples that are struggling, but it's also for those that are like, Hey, we just want... We need a reminder. How do we just level up? How do we just become more intentional? So even if you're not in this like, Oh, gosh, we're in a terrible place, you get it because what it does is it reminds you, it keeps things top of mind for you, and it actually gives you creative ideas.

It's nice. I'm glad you brought that up. The most common thing I hear from couples is we've become co-managers of our house. We are passing each other in the night with soccer schedules and budgets, and both of us are working too much. And this is a tool to help you all laser in and refocus on why you all even liked each other in the first place. That's right. And it gets you out of your head and into action, and it gets you off your phone, which is my favorite part of it.

Great. So you have to go to the Apple Store and download it today. It's the Together app. All right, let's go to Travis in San Antonio. Hi, Travis. Welcome to the show.

Hi. How are you guys doing?

Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

So, oh, man, where to begin? See if I can summarize this quickly. Basically, we had an emergency. We were renting from my grandpa. My baby got lead in her blood, so we had to vacate quickly. Oh my gosh. She's okay. We caught it in time, thank God. But we're living with the in-laws and have been for about six months now. I know that throws red flags for people when I talk about it, but it hasn't been terrible. But now it's getting to the point where we're really just itching for our own space. Sure. And we're not really sure what next steps to take. I've been working my way through Baby Step 3, trying to get to a $20,000 emergency fund. That's three to six months expenses for us, roughly. And that's me being extremely on myself. I was trying to consider roughly $1,000 a month for a potential payment on something. Is that stupid?

Is it It's stupid. I mean, I don't think so. It depends on... I mean, how much margins you guys have. How much do you make a month?

I make roughly 3,900 a month. And my wife stays at home. She doesn't work. We have no debts. Okay. And I'm at about $4,000 in the emergency fund, but we're nearing that threshold of desperation, where we really just want our own space again.

Sure. No, I hear you. So in your area, would you guys be able to find something for a thousand, twelve hundred dollars?

Maybe. We're looking at rent homes, but my boss This is also offered...

He has offered me a owner-finance situation. No, no, no, no, no, cross those streams like the Ghostbusters, dude. Okay. Let your boss just remain your boss. Yeah. Okay. I'm glad you guys. It's a generous offer. I'm sure he's trying to help you out, but don't tangle things up even further that way, because untangling that just becomes a nightmare.

Okay.

Travis, what do you do for a living?

I work in doors and hardware. We do commercial for schools and stuff. Okay.

And do you have kids?

I have one daughter. She's about a year old.

Okay.

So for you guys, if you're looking to move out, we always say that your rent should be no more than 25 % of your take home pay or your mortgage. And For you guys, that's 1,000 to 1,200, right? If you go a little bit above that. I would want to stay within those parameters, which means you're going to have 3,000 left to live on. Have you guys done a monthly budget? Well, I guess you obviously don't have rent or utilities and all of that. But I would do a mock budget and just say, Okay, if we were to move somewhere, what do we think everything's going to cost? And list out everything you guys spend money on the month and see if you can get it within that. I mean, it has to be within the 3,000. Ideally, it would be less than that so that you can continue to save and get your emergency fund built up. Because you guys have what? $4,000 in there, you said?

Roughly, yes.

After living with your in-laws for six months, how have you only been able to save four grand?

Well, there were some complications for... My wife had some medical stuff she had to deal with postpartum. Okay, great.

I'm glad you were able to take care of that stuff. That's good.

Yeah. And then there's been, like here and there, I've had to buy new work boots and new tools because I just started in this job less than four months ago.

Oh, wow. Do you see a raise coming Any time soon, Travis?

There's potential for one. This company is fairly new, so we're growing. And I think I'm just trying to find my groove within the ranks.

Are you 40 hours with them?

I'm close to 50 hours, but I'm salary. I make roughly about $900 a week. Okay. And like I said, my life doesn't work, but I'm also starting to take on side jobs because I'd really like to start my own business.

Yeah, that's great. Honestly, you'll I'm going to make... If you get that going, you'll probably make more than what you're doing now, which is awesome.

Rachel, tell me if I'm wrong here. What I hear with you, brother, is, like simply put, you all have a math problem. Okay. And you have a value in your home that you want your wife to stay at home. You all want her to stay at home. You want to work with this new company and get them off the ground, and you're working 50 hours a week. But you're making about as much as if you want to become a manager at a Starbucks. And so you're not making 50 grand a year, right?

Right. No, not quite.

And so you've got these competing values that you all are trying to stretch out. But the math is you all can't afford to live out on your own, which tells me you and your wife have to go back and say, Okay, which one of these values that we've laid out? If for six months, for one year, for two years, we're going to pause on so that we can get ahead for the future. But this is moments when people make desperate situations.

This is where the baby stays with the in-laws and she works. For three days a week. Yeah, totally. I mean, you find ways to earn this, especially to get you guys to an appointment that you have your emergency fund. And by that time, hopefully, you've gotten a few raises and time has passed and your income has gone up.

Some good side hustle jobs.

Yes. But in the meantime, John's right. You guys have an income problem, Travis. So a creative way to fix that is what I would be looking for.

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So there are certain elements of money that I would say each of us as hosts have a thing that we're He's just like, That is so annoying. Whatever it is, right? Dave's is always people that can't find a job. He's always like, I don't know how people don't work for six months. I'd go cut yards. I would do something, right? We all have our thing. My thing, for some reason, John, more and more and more, it's sports betting. I find it so annoying.

I hate it. You find it annoying.

It is getting under my skin more and more. Why? The bros, and all the app, now that I know, I'm like, we're watching football, and it's like every commercial is an app for sports betting. The amount of money that's going into it, and the target audience is a bunch of freaking 20, 30-year-old dudes, for the most part. They have a target, and I'm just like, and they're all complaining that they can't afford a house. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. You all are annoying. It's annoying. I hate it. The sports betting world.

I hate it because it's predatory.

Yes. They want that.

Yes. And I hate it because of the way... The playbook is like an old-school after-school special. Like, the first joint is free, right? And it's like, your first bets are free. It's like, it's such an old-school playbook, but it's so predatory.

And they rope you in. Yeah.

And you keep betting. And then they prop bet you. It's like, hey, will his shoe fall off in the fourth quarter? The stupidest stuff. It just laches into every nook and cramp.

And people get in such trouble with it. And that's what's so frustrating.

That's why I hate it, because It's like, I love watching the fights with somebody, and they're like, Dude, should I put 10 bucks on it? I love that. That's funny. That's like a thing.

Yes. That's like old school, just like, Hey, we're sitting around. I bet on a horse for Steeple Chase.

When it goes from fun to, Hey, I bet we can make a bunch of money, to, I bet we could get a whole generation hooked on this, to the tune of billions and billions of dollars. And then we talk to their spouses who have lost everything, or we talk to them and they can't They can't go to school. They can't get a job. It's so destructive. Yes. No, I hate it.

Okay. So as the Super Bowl is approaching, an article came out, an ESPN said that approximately $1. 76 billion is expected to be bet on the Super Bowl this year. It's the highest. It's a 27 % increase year over year. So it's getting worse and worse. $1. 7 billion in sports betting for the Super Bowl. I'm like, I I feel like we could cure clean water. I feel like we could use this money and help a lot of people. You know what I mean? I'm just like, Oh, or help your family. Help yourself. I don't know. So much good could be done. I can't do it. And Bill Miller Bill, who's the President of AGA, said that no single event brings fans together like the Super Bowl. And this record figure shows just how much Americans enjoy sports betting as a part of the experience.

That's like sitting outside of a methadone clinic and being like, nothing brings people into a long line. It just shows... It's so not true.

Not true. The destruction and all of it and all the... I'm like, Oh, my gosh, please take your money and fund your Roth IRA, seven-year-old, please. Yes.

Take half the money, buy some great nachos, and then put the other bit of that money. Pay your credit card off this month. Just say, I'm about to bet on the game. I'm going to pay my credit card off.

I'm going to do something smart with my money. Oh, sports betting, the Bros. It used to be the Crypto Bros that bothered me. It's now the Sports Betting Bros.

I can't do it. The next segment, we'll talk about the women that drive me crazy. We can. We won't. We for sure won't. For sure we won't.

All the essential oils. You know what I mean? That's what we always do. Everyone has their thing. But the sports betting, man. Oh, my gosh. We'll bet the Super Bowl. Coming up. You're going to see it. Don't bet. Don't bet on it if you haven't already. Save your money. Save your money. All right, let's go to Cincinnati. We have Amber on the line. Hi, Amber. Welcome to the show.

Hello. How are you guys doing?

Hi, we're doing great. How are you?

I'm doing well. I just had a question. I know you guys always talk about, like whole life insurance policies and how they're not great.

Some life insurance policies. Term life is awesome.

Term life is awesome. Yes. We have a term life policy, and both of us have policies, obviously, through our employers, too. We've done a good job with the term life, making sure we have kids and making sure that they're taken care of. God forbid, something would happen. But the question I have is, my husband was, I guess you could say, gifted. A family member, when he was a little kid, bought him a whole life insurance policy, and he still has it. I think the value of it is like $80,000 or $50,000 or something like that if something would happen. And he's never paid anything for it. Now, what's happening is the annual premium, which looks like it's about $88 or something like that, it just comes out of the interest that's earned. So he's just kept it. I go the route of, well, do we cash it out and then invest it? I mean, heck, even in our high-yield savings account, the money's there. You know what I mean? Yes. I guess we're having that constant debate on what is the right thing to do with this. And I think he's going on the cautious side, but I'm like, We have term life.

We have life insurance through our... We don't necessarily need.

Yes, you're covered. How long is your term life for? What's the policy for it?

It goes all the way up until we both retire. Because at that point, we will be in a good situation. Our kids will be graduated from college. You know what I mean? We'll be in a different situation. Cash it out today.

Cash it out today. You were right.

Yes. Yeah, your hunch was right.

You can tell your husband that we said you were right.

That felt good, Amber.

I would cash out for the end of the day.

Yeah, and you'll just forfeit the death benefit and all of that, and you'll pay some taxes and all of it. But what you get out of it, though, literally, if you just put that in the market, and we don't know what the market is going to do this year. But in the past few years, some years, it's been like 20 %. It's crazy what the returns have been in there. And like you said, or even sitting in a high-yield savings account earning three and a half %. Anything is better than this, because what they sit there and do is try to mix your investments and insurance, and they try to bundle it all together. And it actually is, even though you all aren't necessarily paying for it, I hear that you're paying out of the interest. But it's expensive. It's a horrible investment. You could be making so much more out in the market. And so I would. I would take this 40 grand for sure, drop it into an index fund or go to Vanguard, or put it in a- But I like it.

You put it in a high-yield savings account. The way you were thinking about it is the way I would think about it.

I'm just thinking that extra cushion. We have a cushion, but even more cushion.

Yes. And then it would be something you could actually use. They dangle that death benefit out in front of you, and then they take your money, and they invest that in the market, and then they make the spread.

I think his thing is always just, God forbid, something would happen to him. He wants to make sure that he and the boys are taken care of.

You know what I mean? Yeah, he has term life insurance, though, right?

Is that $50,000 going change your life? If he passed away today, would that $50,000 be what makes or breaks you?

No. I mean, the term is going to pay for the house. There you go. Pay for everything. I mean, we've got plenty. We don't owe anything besides just a little bit left on our house. Okay.

How old are you guys? How old are you, Amber?

I'm 47.

47. Okay. I'm just doing a quick calculation. If you just put it in right now, just in the market, and you just didn't touch it until you were 67, it'd be $435,000. And that's not adding anything. That's just like what John said. If you just moved it from one account to the other today and then just left it, You got almost half a million in there.

Well, and typically, I guess this is the debate we keep going on. He goes, Well, it is making money. You know what I mean?

And I'm like, Well- Not a lot. He's had it since he's a child.

Yeah, for the steward.

He's had it since he's a child. It's only $40,000.

It is making money. It's making money for them, not for you all.

Because how old is he? Very true. How old is he? He's 52. Okay, and when did they open this? When he was two years old?

I have no clue.

I actually was. But seriously, think about that. I didn't exist then. Let's just say he did. Let's say they did. Because a lot of family members will do this. A grandparent or a child is born- I think he was more later in life.

You know what I mean? Maybe a teenager or something like that.

Let's Let's just say, yeah, 12 years old. 40 years. It's $40,000.

It's terrible. It's shameful that someone would call that an investment product and look at you and say, You're going to be winning here.

In 20 years, you'd have almost half a million, right? It is a rip-off. Whole life insurance, you guys, it's terrible. It is terrible. So get term, what you guys have, Amber. It's inexpensive. You get it, you set it, 15, 20 years, whatever you need. And then whatever you would have paid for a whole life. Just invest the difference there and you're going to come out spades ahead. Amber, you are right. I'm happy to say it. So there you go.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Rachael Cruz, hosting today with Dr. John Deloney. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. Up next, we have Cameron in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Cameron. Welcome to the show. Hi, Rachael. How are you? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

So I am 74 I have $131,000 in debt, and I have two jobs. And I used to be $131,000 in debt two years ago, and I'm 74.

Look at you, girl. That's like 60 grand. I know.

I know. It's been really hard. I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease a year ago.

Oh, my gosh.

And it's been getting worse over the last couple of months. And I'm trying to figure out, should I keep working? I've been working my butt off paying on about 20 $2,000, $2,500 every month towards the dead. And I'm struggling to work. I'm having issues every day. And I love what I do. I love both my jobs. My bosses are amazing. And I just want to make sure that everyone's been telling me, You should work less. You should work less. And I just... I don't know what to do, honestly.

What do you do for... What are your two jobs?

So my first job, I'm a claims associate. And then my second job, I'm a retention specialist for a middle My insurance agency. Okay.

Which job pays the most?

My 9: 00 to 5: 00, my claims role.

Your claims, okay. And then how much overtime are you working with the other job?

I don't get overtime. I only get salary. And then I get 21 an hour at my second job.

You're doing the other one? Okay. And how many hours do you work that extra job?

So I work an additional... So I work from anywhere between 16 to 22 hours every week.

With them on top of the four. So you're working 60 hours.

Karen, this is going to sound bananas. Can I tell you I'm proud of you? Not for working yourself to where you have a chronic illness. Not that. But you've been working really hard, doing whatever it takes, and I want to applaud you. Thank you. That's pretty impressive. It's really, really impressive.

Are you single?

It's been so hard. I know. I know. I am engaged. I've been working so hard. I also have been down in bipolar disorder, and I've been doing all the work, going to therapy, talking to my psychiatrist, doing all the medications. And that's been extremely tumultuous as well. And the hardest part is that sometimes the Crohn's medicine messes with the bipolar medicine. And it's just been really hard. Everyone keeps telling me, Work less, work less. But I'm like, I want to be debt free. They're like, You should live, you to live. And I'm just like, I just don't want to have to use that.

Well, there's a middle ground there. There's a middle ground. When people say, You should just live, often people have in their mind, like beach vacation and just eat whatever you want. Right.

I was going to ask what that means. Yes, yes.

For you, just live means I want the world to hear your story, and I especially want this guy who's won the lottery getting to marry you and your community who gets to interact with you. You're close to pushing your body over a threshold where it says, I quit. And so I want you just to live. I mean that for real. Do you hear what I'm saying? Not Yolo, but I want you to be healthy and okay.

This is really hard.

I know. I would much rather you take six months and just work one of the jobs, even if you have to take a medical leave or whatever. Take six months once and exhale so that you can come back stronger. I've met with guys who train Olympic athletes, and they say the hardest part about training an Olympic athlete is getting them to rest. Getting them to let their bodies recover, and your body is systematically saying, Hey, we can't. This is a heavy, heavy load. And so I want to applaud you for going all in. And I also want you to hear me and Rachel say how proud of you we are, and we want you to listen to your body so that you can cross the finish line, not in a casket, to be frank, but cross the finish line with your arms held high, right?

It's just so hard because I just want to take responsibility and get it done. And I used to blame... Before, I used to blame everyone else about all my problems. When I finally figured out that I was the problem, I just wanted to start working on it. Every day- Oh, you are. I'm putting my words in my words. Oh, you are. You are.

It just feels But taking some time to make sure your body's healthy, that's you continuing to take ownership of you.

Yeah. And, Kimmeron, I do want to give you that permission. People that call in, and they have even a child who's sick, and their attention has to be on that or themselves. There are moments to pause baby step two to take care of yourself or someone around you, okay? So that is what we tell people, okay? Getting out of debt is very important, but it's not literally of real life and death. We make it sound like that on the show a lot because we want to be so extreme to be able to get it. But it's really... You don't even need it. Taking care of Cameron is really important. And I'm not worried about you being lazy or not doing anything, right? You're not calling us up being like, Oh, We work 15 hours a week, and it's just too much.

No, you want to work one 50-hour a week job. Good grief. Yes. That's awesome.

I mean, you're doing great. And I know it's frustrating because you have momentum. And what's hard to Cameron, I can hear it, is mentally, you are so strong. You're like, I see this, and this is what I want. My mind wants to go here, but my body's not letting me. And it's usually the opposite for people. They're body-abled to do whatever, able-bodied, but they don't have the mindset. But you got it, girl. So taking care of your body is not going to ruin this whole thing. It's not.

I'm so scared to just losing that extra income to you. Like, just I've been doing it for so long and paying so much. It's just I'm scared, too, because my bills feel like they're so high, even. I feel like it's so much. And when I look at my budget, I'm like, Okay, so I will only have a thousand left if I just had my main job, and I wouldn't be able to put... And that's all I would have after bills. Sure. What's left, Cameron, of the 74,000?

What debt is it?

So I have about $5,000 of credit cards left. Two personal loans. They're about... One is 2,600, the other is 6,000. Okay. What's that? 4,800. Excuse me. I've been paying double the payment for it. Then I have a car, so I have a Tesla Model Y. I pay... So that's 2,500. Okay. And then I have two repos Those that are on my credit that I've been wanting to get settled there. One is 19,000, the other is 13, and then that's it. That's all I have right now. Okay. Are you said you- I'm sorry, I have an IRS debt of 5,000.

Oh, okay. We may move that up to the front just to get that out of the way. You said you're paying extra on that personal of the 6,000. Are you paying extra on everything?

On everything. So I'm putting... So for my loan for the IRS is 131, but I pay 300 every month. Okay.

So what I want you to do, Cameron, I want you to list back out all of your debts, and I want you to just do, if you just did the minimum payment on everything and you put everything towards the IRS debt. I want that momentum to be building because you're spreading everything out, which is amazing, and you've done a fantastic job. I just want more intensity focused on each one. And so pay minimum payments on everything and pay the smallest one-off first. And you got this, Cameron. We are here. Call us back if you need any more help because we are cheering you on.

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All right, let's go to Philadelphia, and we have Janel on the line.

Hi, Janel.

Hi, Rachel. Hi, John. How are you guys?

Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

So I am currently going through a divorce, and my question is, what would be the best way to buy my ex-manchild spouse out of my home?

Shots fired.

Just a burn.

Oh, my gosh. You talk about sports betting.

Oh, is he one of those?

Yeah, typical. Sports betting, marijuana, video games.

Stop it. What a man child.

We were married for six years. When I met him, he was working full-time, I started going to nursing school and I continued. I went for my bachelor's. And then along the course of, I think, our third kid, when our third kid came, I figured it would be easier for me to pick up an extra shift or two as a nurse than have him work. So I regret it. I'm regretting having him become a stay at home dad because that was the end of it. And every time I asked him to start working again afterwards, there was an excuse. And now we're at this point, and he hit the jackpot.

Let me free you from this. You didn't cause that in him. Okay? Mm-hmm. Don't hold that. That's a man, that's a father of three kids, choosing to not get up and co-support his family.

Yeah. I was actually... Well, he's... Not that you need to know this, but he actually adopted my oldest son. In the beginning, everything seemed good, and I was getting out of a very abusive relationship who I had a child with, and it just ended up the way it was done.

We'll walk you through what to do with your money, but I wanted to set you free from that today.

Thank you. I really needed to hear that.

Every husband, every father needs to go get a job.

Yeah. Unless- I kept saying I was married to three people, him and my in-laws, because anytime there was an argument, his mom would say, What's going on? She would come to the house. It was just like it was the worst. Oh my God.

You're not married to a mad child. It's like an actual child child.

I He didn't even make it up. They're paying for his lawyer, and we're going to be going through custody battles. He thinks he needs 50/50 custody, but he doesn't really support them. He works as a part-time janitor. As of the week, he filed for divorce. He finally went back and got a job for four hours a day.

Well, all the text messages you've sent him over the years saying, Please get a job, all that will come out in discovery. Yeah, I hope so. So just work out on that process here. Let's get you to the house. Tell us your house situation.

Yeah. Okay. So I have to buy him out because I was guilted into putting his name on the house that I paid for. He did not put a dollar towards, but marital debt.

Yeah, totally. And I'll give you that freedom, too, that we would tell people when you're married, even if one spouse stays home, you both- Right. So that was not wrong of you. I hear the frustration because you put- It is frustrating. Yes. But that was not necessarily a wrong move. It's not in the heat of thing right now. Yes. Okay. Yeah. But to your point, he has 50 % of that asset, too.

Yeah. So we just went to this divorce hearing, and I owe him about 40, $8,800 and some dollars. The house is worth $2,55 as of the last appraisal, and I owe $139 on it, or $138.

Okay.

So So since this whole thing started, I've been stacking up. I was hustling to pay off one of our personal loans because I knew that was going to come up and that would look good for me when this happened. So I paid off a $16,000 personal loan we had as marital debt. I paid my lawyer over $10,000 and set aside about $18,000. So I have cash, and I don't know if it's better... Oh, also I have to pay him alimony. So I have 15 and a half months of alimony, which is probably going to be about $1,000 a month when he moved out, which he hasn't yet. So should I save this cash as just to lose my alimony payments or so I don't have to worry about that when the time comes.

No. How much are you making a month?

$6,000. So I'm a nurse practitioner. I bring home $6,000 a month, and I do have a date Dave would call it a hobby where I do medical esthetics, Botox and fillers. And that can bring home, depending on how much I do it, like $1,000 to $6,000 a month. And I'm just doing it really part-time because I have a kid.

Oh, good. Would you say 2,000 would probably be average, just for calculation purposes? Oh, yeah.

It has been since I started doing it about two years ago.

Good for you. Yeah, there's some cash in that. That's great. Good for you to know. Okay, so how much will the mortgage If you keep the house, how much will the mortgage be? Without his $48,000, but just in general, how much is the payment?

Well, it depends. I mean, right now, it's 1364 a month. Okay.

Yeah. And then if you add- Well, I don't...

Should I...

Go ahead. Well, I was going to say, if you add in that 48,000, if you buy him out and just tack that onto your mortgage, as long as that payment doesn't get up to 2,000, which I don't think it I don't think it will. I'm not able to do the calculations right here. But calculate it out to say, okay, if I add that 48,000 to the $138,000, calculate out what that mortgage payment would be, because I don't want your mortgage payment to be more than 25 % of your take home pay, because at that point, Janel, you probably can't afford the house. But honestly, I think you might be okay, and especially if you commit for a period of time to doing the side hustle stuff that you can, because if that can bring in six grand a month extra, I'm like, That was probably my best month. Well, even five grand, four grand. Do you know what I mean? The two grand that I just calculated as a rough, that's more on the conservative side.

How much is that you have in cash right now?

I have about 18,000 to set aside. But that's the thing. Is it better to refinance the house or take out a HILAA? I know you're not going to say Hila.

No, I wouldn't do that.

A personal loan for that?

Normally, we would say, Don't borrow to buy your partner But when it comes to homeownership, 48 grand is a small number.

Yeah. And if that payment is still low enough, I would be comfortable with that because I'll be honest, Janel, I'd say 90 % of the calls we get in the situation, and the wife, the mom wants to keep the home, she can't afford it. Most of the time, we tell them that they have to end up selling it. But honestly, with the numbers you're giving me, but I want you to recalculate it. If you just go to ramsey solutions. Com, we have a mortgage calculator. You can plug some of this stuff in. But I don't want your payment more than 25% of your take-home pay, because you're going to have that. Then you're going to have alimony for 15 months, and some stuff is going to start stacking up. I don't want this house- Then I'm going to have to pay for childcare, too.

Because- Yes.

I don't want this house to be a burden, right? It's not worth it. It's worth having all the chaos you guys are going through to have peace, and I don't want financial stress on you, okay?

One of the hardest things we have to tell folks in your situation on a regular basis is, I want you to put on the table, as hard as this would be, what if I sold this house?

Right. I do, in the future, plan on doing that, but I just wanted to get- If you plan on doing that, I would really think twice about doing it now.

Okay. Because, listen, what you're trying to do for you and the kids is to minimize how different your life is now. I would go ahead and just metabolize. It's 100% different. The life you is over. If you think from that, it sounds stark, right? But if you think, Okay, the life I had is over. What do I want this new one to look like? Would I go buy this house with these memories and share that bed? At this price? Probably not. Okay. Or would you go rent for a year? It's going to be inconvenient. You're going to have to call somebody to help you move. It's going to be a huge pain in the butt. But I'm going to start from scratch. Right.

Then the rent is going to be $2,400 minimum.

Yeah, it'll be expensive. A month. There's no question. Yeah.

There's no question. That's where I thought about that, too.

Yeah. I think it's making that call, Janel, for you from that perspective, from a mental perspective. Do you want to be walking back in that front door every day? How is that for you? And then do this calculation. Those are the two big questions that I want you to discover on your own, and you can, but you're smart. Gosh, I'm so sorry of what you're going through.

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If you're working the baby steps and you want the best and fastest way to do it, you need to be using every dollar. It's more than just a budgeting app because it's a built-in of your entire money picture. So the whole plan is built into this app, and you can track your progress, get personalized recommendations, you can get coaching, actually, for your specific situation, and it's going to help you move the progress of the plan so much faster. So if you want someone walking with you every single day during all of this, just like we would be here on the show, then make sure to download every dollar. It is free. You can download it in the App Store or Google Play. All right, let's go to New Orleans, and we have Brandee on the line. Hi, Brandee. Hi. Hello, hello. Welcome to the show. How can we help?

Hi. I'm calling. I am an average listener. My husband and I are on board. We are paying off debt, and we are super gazelle-intense.

Good for you guys.

I'm excited Good. I have a 96,000-dollar tax debt leftover from my late husband.

Oh, whoa.

Yeah. Yes, yes. And I went to a company in around June and started a fresh start program.

What is that? Like a debt relief?

Exactly. Oh, man. Exactly. The name of the company is Better Tax Relief. Oh, there we go. Right.

How ironic. Have you given them a bunch of money, and you've made zero progress?

I have. No, I haven't made zero progress yet. I've given them half of the money that I needed. They were quoting me $15,000, and they were going to get me into a hardship program, and it was called the Fresh Start program.

How much money do you make a year, Brandee?

I make about 65, and I just recently got married in December. Together, we have not combined our checking accounts because of this IRS debt.

Okay, how much does he make a year?

I don't want them... About 75.

Okay. You don't want them to see his income, is what you're thinking.

Exactly. I don't want them to get a hold of his checking account money. It's not on his checking account for that reason. We share our money. We pay the bills together. Sure. But my name is not on his account because I don't want the IRS to go after his account.

Can you get your money back from these folks?

That, I don't know.

How can we help you, Brandee? What do you need from us?

Okay. So I contacted one of your people. I used to ELPs.

I don't know what you call them. Yes. One of our tax-trusted pros. Yeah.

Right. Okay. So I contacted one in Alabama. He was the nearest one. And he's just a CPA. And he's like, he says, I've heard of this place. They have good reviews on Google. They have a lot of good reviews. My second question, my second part of my question was, he recommended another tax attorney that is local to me. I live in Mississippi, just outside of New Orleans, about 20 minutes outside New Orleans. So he recommended a tax professional, a tax attorney. When I contacted them, they quoted me $5,600 to take care of the situation, to handle it from start to finish. Wow. Okay. So I went back to better tax relief, and they knocked my fee down and said for the balance of about $5,000, they would finish the case, and that they do have tax attorneys on staff.

Yeah, but you're still just talking about fees. Have they talked about what settlement they've negotiated on this $96,000?

They have not yet because- Okay.

I have all of my trust. I don't know this company, never even heard of them. I have all of my trust. A tax attorney. I would look at incentives. When you hire an attorney, that attorney works for you.

Okay.

You are working for this other group right now.

They're like the middle. You're basically paying the middleman.

Right. And see, my husband's been saying, I've had a bad feeling about this since the beginning because I was pressured, and I was like, Oh, my God, they're going to come after me. You made me $6,000. It's a lot of money. Right.

You were scared. You made a decision out of fear, right? I did. Urgency. I did.

I don't know the process, but just personally sitting here, just as a dumb guy off the street, I'm stunned that after more than, what, seven months of working with a company, you don't have a relief number yet. You don't have a negotiated settlement yet.

I don't. I don't have anything yet.

That blows my mind.

Yes.

And you said you've given them half of the 15? Half of the 15,000, yeah. And then they said they can do it for five, meaning the additional five, or are they going to pay you $2,000 back so that you have- No, I would still have to pay another five to whichever one I choose to go with.

If I choose to stay with better tax or- Okay, because your original seven grand that you paid them is just done. I don't know. I can see if I can recoup any of that. I don't know about that. But I'm looking at $5,000 more to get an answer. But I think that... And here on YouTube, just now, just sold me. I'm going to go with the attorney's office.

I would call this company, and I want a full accounting of what you have done for me for my 75 $100 I've given you over the last seven months. I want every phone call logged. I want every message. I want every negotiated settlement you've offered. I want to know what you've done for the last seven months. If you can't provide that, I want my money back, because I think what they're doing is just trashing your credit.

My credit's trashed. I'm not even worried about that.

Yeah. Then you don't have, what I would see as, you don't have to do any moral slipperiness with, well, let's don't do his money. Let's get somebody who can get in with the IRS, get a negotiated settlement, get a dollar amount.

And you'll probably get it put on a payment plan.

You can put on a payment plan, and we're going to pay it off ASAP.

I'm really hoping for Innocent Spouse, but this company hasn't said that, and the attorney's office was like, We could go for Innocent Spouse. I don't see why you wouldn't get it.

Right. See, okay, and Brandy, I mean, honestly, it's like working with an attorney, if you think about it. They've gone to school for this. This is what they do day in and day out. They work for you. This This relief company is like a who-knows-who opened it up. They make so much money. It reminds me not of a payday loan by any means, but it's all in that same bucket. These debt relief companies, they're a cash grab. They grab people in desperate moments. Honestly, I hate Saber. I mean, exactly you. I'm like, yes, you're freaking out. You're like, My wages are going to be garnished. The IRS is after me. Help me. And then help debt relief companies right there with their sign. And you're like, That's what I need.

There is no recourse for you if they call you back next month and say, Well, we tried. Nothing doing. They've kept your money.

Exactly. And you know what? Yeah. And that's it. That's right. So I think it's just stupid tax that you just knock it up to if they don't pay you back the 7,000.

A great attorney is worth every single penny you pay because it's like they take up a sword and a shield on your behalf, and they say, game on. And that's what you hire them for.

Yeah. And even the term they just threw out to you, right?

The innocent spouse. They're like, There you go. I can't believe it. I'm trying not to get angry on the phone.

I'm still an innocent spouse. I applied for an innocent spouse, but then the IRS shut down, the government shut down, and that hurt me things.

Right. But then having an attorney on your side, right? That goes forward and tries again and all of it is worth every penny.

Just thank you all. Just thank you all so We are doing so much. We are doing so good, and you all just- So proud of you, Brandee.

How much have you guys... I know this is the big debt you're looking at. How much have you guys paid off?

We had 140,000, and we're down to 72,000 since January of last year. Oh, my gosh. So we paid off about $70,000 in a year. Good for you guys. We plan to be debt-free except for the house by the end of this year, with the exception of the IRS. We'll have that settled, hopefully.

Sure. Okay, but settlement doesn't mean it goes No, no way. Settlement means they're going to come up with a number, right?

Right, right. Well, I thought that the $15,000 was my settlement, and that was going to be paid off this year, too. I'm learning now that that was just their fee.

Wow. Right. Yeah, they swindled you. Right.

So that's a $7,000 deep of tax.

That is- I'm not trying to get my money back. Having sat with widows, that makes me so enraged on your behalf. That someone would take somebody in that moment of pain. They just lost their ride or die. And then to find out there was 100 grand they didn't know about. And then to come in and be like, Oh, we got you. Give me $15,000. I'll call you back in seven months, eight months. That's so enraging to me.

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All right, today's question comes from Kaitlyn in New York. Kaitlyn writes, My fiancé and I recently moved into a house together. I am not on the mortgage, but I live here, and he pays the bills. His My dad helped him buy the house, and my fiancé pays his dad instead of a mortgage lender. On top of that, my fiancé uses a credit card that's also paid for by his dad. Oh, jeez. His dad is a big fan of yours and a very smart businessman.

Sounds like a raving fan.

Loves us. But this is one thing he does opposite of what you advise. When I bring up getting rid of the credit card or buying a house the right way, he gets defensive upset. I don't know who, if that's your father-in-law, soon to be, or your fiancé. What should be my first step to fix this problem? Rachel, I think this is as simple as you telling your fiancé that if we're going to get married, it's going to be our marriage, not I'm not marrying your dad, too. We have to put some boundaries in place right now. You're getting a very clear picture of of what your future may look like if you go through with this, which is marrying a little boy in a grown-up man's body who's dad still pays his bills, his dad still tells him what to do, his dad still... The shadow of his father leans over your house. And if this is my sister, if this is my daughter, if this is my friend, I would say I would draw some real firm boundaries.

Yes. Because if you can't handle it during engagement, he's definitely not going to handle it well. Yeah.

Wait till you have a kid. Yes. And wait till you get a job in another state and Daddy says you can't move.

And even if it was a debit card and his dad's paying, funding his checking account. So that's the issue, the dad. And then also the fact that debt is being woven through this entire picture. And if you're not okay with that, you guys have two separate values when it comes to money, which is a really big deal. I feel like a shallow person, and I'm always like, oh, my gosh, money can ruin the relationship because it feels like, no, that shouldn't love It should conquer all. But the truth is, when rubber meets the road and you guys, day in and day out, are dealing with your life, this is one of the biggest issues in marriage that can cause so much conflict if you're not on the same page. So can it be done? It can, but it's just an exhausting uphill battle. Sometimes it's like you just fight and fight and fight all day long about it, and it doesn't create peace in the household.

But in this situation, what churns my stomach is, if you go to a a mortgage lender to get a loan for a home, there is regulatory bodies that monitor that, there's agreements, there's contracts.

Yes.

Those things guide your relationship. Yes. In this situation, your future father-in-law owns you all. He tells you all what you're going to do, when you're going to do, because he is your bank, he is your lender. And I'm not having that because there's no regulations to that relationship other than what he feels that day.

Yeah, mixing family money And also, can I...

I'll just say this, on behalf of the dad in this situation, I have a 15-year-old. You know what? I'm going to tell the story. Josephine and I, my daughter, she's 10. We went on a date the other day. And after we got done eating, she said, Dad, there's this cool dress shop. She didn't know this. It's the dress shop. It's Anthropology. Back in the old school, back, O-G, Anthropology, I used to get my wife gift cards. When we had nothing, I would save up and save up and save up, and that would be a Christmas present for her because I think their clothes are rad, right? Or they were back in the day. I don't pay attention. And we went in there, and there was a dress that was obnoxiously expensive. And she lit up, and she goes, Can I try this on? And I was like, You can try that on. And I was 100 % going to buy it. I mean, I was like, I'm buying that for sure. I'm totally buying that. There's no reason financially. She can't wear it. She has a uniform at her school. I'm buying my daughter that dress.

And of course, it was 17 sizes too big.

I was going to say a little joke.

I get the sentiment as a parent of wanting to make sure I'm clearing the deck, I'm clearing the path for my kids as much as possible. I don't want them to struggle. I don't want them to have the same heartache I had. My dad wouldn't have had the money because he was a policeman. He wouldn't have the money to buy me something, even if he wanted to. And I get the impulse to want to do that. We, as parents, have to understand that that impulse, when taken too far, hurts our kids. It's walking into the weight room, taking all the weight the bar, and then wondering why they're not getting stronger. Yes.

Well, that's what I was going to ask you. Let me do the lift for you. Because I read all this, and sometimes I blame the parent as much in the situation as the son. So to this dad, how hard is it? Or how often do you see married couples? And it is like an entanglement of the son or daughter continues to listen to the parents over the spouse.

Is that pretty common? Super, super common. And not usually to this degree, where your lender and they're financing your life. But even on things as strange as someone's been married 20 years, and we have to go to Thanksgiving and do it this way because my mom said... And so in a weird way, your mother-in-law is still running your life. So that happens all over the place. We probably have mutual friends that still have been married. They have three kids, and they still hide the wine when mom comes over. And so there comes a point when you have to say, I'm an adult. If I'm old enough to ask the question, Will you to marry me, then I have to... It is. Dad holds the blame here. But now that this guy said, I want you to marry me, he has to stand up, take responsibility, and look at his father and say, Thank you for bringing me here. I have to develop the skills and muscle and grit and resilience and responsibility to take it from here. And if his dad does a temper tantrum, then he's going to have a hard grown-up decision to make.

But that's the call of a new husband.

Yeah. And weirdly, if I'm her and he does that, and even if the dad throws the... Temper tantrum. Temper tantrum. Why can't I say that word? There's something about if the fiancé continues to push through, though, and continues to choose her, that shows Game on. He's even bigger of who he is, right? So it is a little bit of this, like, yes, yes, in it all. But oh, my gosh.

When you ask somebody, Will you marry me? They go to number one on your list above your parents, above everything, that person anchoring to that person becomes a priority.

Yeah. Okay, we got about two minutes, John. What'd you say, from a relational standpoint, we're talking about parent-child relationship, I mean, adult child, but child. But when it comes to marriage, when we're talking about them as a couple, what do you see on your show and other places? Probably one or two of the biggest issues that continue to drive a wedge financially in a marriage.

I mean, the biggest one, number one, is people have my money and your money. So you're 40,000. This is my 60,000, right? It's a billion dollars, right? But they're driving two cars down the highway right next to each other, trying to pretend that they're in the same car, and they're not, right? So that's the first one. The second one, without a doubt, is financial infidelity. Secrets. I bought this and didn't tell them, I'm going to buy this. Don't you tell your dad? Everything from a cup of coffee all the way to the new car, the new guitar, or we We took a call earlier about the, I'm trying to day trade with borrowed money, and I got myself. So it's secrets. It's lies. It's deception.

Yes.

Of continuing to hide. And what's so interesting, too, about that dynamic, because I've heard people say that. It's like, Oh, just, yeah, don't. Yeah, put the shopping bags away before dad gets home so that he doesn't see it. Because that means dad isn't looking at the bank statement or the credit card statement.

That's the other side of it, right?

That's wild to me. Whenever people say that, I'm always like, But that's so... Unless they have a hidden account, right? Which is one thing. But the whole shopping is, I mean, it's like a I feel like among women, is like, Okay, if you go to Target, hide the Target bags, thing. Which whenever I hear that, I'm always like, Yes, but doesn't that show up? And isn't someone looking at the checking account, right? And if just one person is, I give that a red flag of You both need to be involved in seeing what's going on. That's one reason I do love every dollar with all the transactions that come in because Winston and I- Because it pops up on each other's phone. Yes. And sometimes it comes up a weird name. I did this yesterday. I was trying and I screenshot it and I text, and I'm like, What is this? They go, That's insurance. And I was like, Oh, shoot. Okay, there we go. And I wasn't sure what that was. But it just keeps you in this rhythm and on the same page. So married couples out there, there are so many things with money that can drive a wedge, and it can be one of the reasons of divorce in America Day, one of the top reasons.

But it doesn't have to take your marriage. There There are things you can do. You can work together, be on the same team, do a budget together, have a plan together, have goals together, and be in one car like what John was saying, versus driving in two cars down the streets. Be a team. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting today with Dr. John Deloney. You can give us a call at 888-825-5225. We are taking your questions about life and money. All right, let's go to Salt Lake City, and we have Austin on the line. Hi, Austin.

Hey, Rachel. Hey, John. How's it going?

Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

Hey, so I got married just this last summer and just enjoying married life, and we've combined our lives, combined our finances. But I'm I'm having a hard time. I feel like my wife isn't super involved with the finances. I feel like it's all on me, which is fine. I feel like we're in a good, healthy, responsible spot. I'm just wondering if I should strive harder to get her more involved How could I do that? And then I also have a fear that if something were to ever happen to me, she would be in a good spot, but not really know what to do with as far as finances go.

So I'll answer this question backwards. I have sat with multiple wives who have said the words, I don't know what to do. I don't know where the money is. I don't know where the accounts are. I don't know who holds any of our anything. And so your fear on that, I've experienced that second-hand sitting with somebody, so your fear is 100 % right. But I would say that's not the chief reason why I would want your wife involved. But I want to ask you a question first. Is that cool?

Sure.

Is she not involved because all you do is throw spreadsheets around and talk about this and you're annoying to be around? And I'm saying that laughingly, by the way. Or does she just- Not care. Not care?

Laughingly, probably the first one, but also the second one. I feel like I am that way. But also, I feel like she just doesn't care.

Well, and sometimes people don't care because they really just... I just don't care. My mom didn't do it, my grandma didn't do it, so I guess I'm not going to do it. And then Sometimes people just take their stuff and they go home because they realize my voice doesn't count here at this table. I don't get a vote. I don't know how you're using all these Excel formulas and Claude and Anthropic. So I'm just going to... Whatever, right? And so I think for you as a new husband, establishing in your relationship, telling her, I'm sorry, I set this up this way. Your voice matters here. I want you at the table here, and we're going to co-make decisions. And one of you is going to... In In my marriage, my wife pushes the buttons. I don't send the bills to the electric company or whatever, but we talk about it, right? So one of you all is going to do the nuts and bolts of it. But you all being together is critical, man. Yeah.

So the opposites attract thing is real Austin. She probably will never be someone that's so excited to see her Excel sheets. That's just not going to probably be her. And I can say that because that's me. That's not me. Winston is that. He loves all the details and does all this projecting out on things. I'm like, That's great. I'm not super excited about it, but we sit down every month. And now, it's been 17 years, so now it's quick 17, 16. I'm jumping ahead, but yeah, 16 years. But it's quick conversations, but we do a budget. We have every dollar. Transactions come in. I usually track them. We are still on the same page. But to John's point, he's the one that presses the buttons in our life of like, Yeah, here, I'm going to pay these bills and everything. But I'm still involved. And And so I think that's the balance, is you have to understand opposites attract. And what she brings to the table, Austin, is going to be really good for you. You may need to loosen up a little bit, too, right? She's a gift to you in that. But then what she needs to understand is that she's an adult.

She's a grown woman. She's married, which means you have to do adult things. Even though you don't like it, even though it's not your strength and it's not exciting to you, you have to do adult things. And adult things is learning how to manage a household financially. And again, she may not be pumped about it, but that is part of growing up. And so for you guys to sit down together and look at the numbers and do a budget together, have her change two or three things on the budget, whether it's amounts or She needs to add a category. You do need her involved, and then you guys can start working out of that. So that's what I would say. You probably need to chill a little bit with her and not be so detailed. But then also on her end, she has to pull her weight to say, Yeah, I may not want to do this, but I need to because I'm an adult, and we have to do things we don't always like. Does that make sense?

Okay. Yeah, that's helpful.

Yeah. How old are you guys?

Oh, she probably wouldn't like me saying this. I'm 31, and she's in her early 30s.

She wouldn't like you saying... I thought you were going to say she's 18, and you're- I thought you were going to say she's 51. She wouldn't like you saying her age.

She's a little bit older than Yeah.

Okay. There's something magic, especially in a new relationship with somebody saying, You know what? I have screwed this up out of the gate, and I'm sorry. I really want your voice at the table here, and I can be really annoying with my spreadsheets. I'm going to commit to not doing that, and vice versa. Hey, I've been really annoying with just being like, whatever. I'm never going to be in a spreadsheets, but I want to be a part of the money conversation. Like, wherever you fall on that of saying, I have set this dynamic up in a bad way, and I want to be a part of changing it. So It's a good move on your part, brother.

Awesome. Awesome. Thanks. All right, let's go to Debbie in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Debbie. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help?

When my husband retired from his first job, he received a pension, and we took the pension and purchased a 10-year deferred annuity. We realized how bad this decision was later, and we're wondering now if we should take the 10 % surrender charge hit and just remove our principal and invest it with our other retirement money, hopefully making that back.

Yes. I mean, that's usually... How much is in there?

Right now, there's 366,000.

Oh, my gosh. Oh, yes. Yes. Because it would clear your debt, right?

We don't have any debt. Oh, even better.

Oh, my gosh. Okay.

We just have a little bit on our mortgage.

Yeah. When did he this?

We purchased it in 2023.

Okay, so it's fairly new.

For $488,000. Yeah. Yeah. And we realized you can, with no surrender charge, take 10 % a year, but that's just a slow- Well, I was going to say that, yeah.

And it probably hasn't earned it a lot because you may have to pay on the gains of it, too. But I don't think there's not going to be a lot because it's so new.

The interest it supposedly earned versus the fee they're charging us. The fee are more than the interest.

Yes, I know. That's the The thing about annuities that are so tough is the fees are so high, and the person that's selling them gets a pretty good deal. Yeah, Debbie, I would. You're going to have to freaking plug your nose when you do it, though, because it's going to hurt. But in the long run, putting that in an investment somewhere, even an index fund or something, oh my gosh, that's going to grow. How old are you guys?

I'm 60, 59.

Okay, so you guys are at that point.

Because- Well, we have We have other retirement investment. We are about 1. 2 million without this money.

Okay. Is it a fixed or variable?

We'll care how much next year. This is flexible premium. I don't know if that answers your question.

Okay.

Do you have a smart investor pro?

No, but we do have a financial advisor that we've been working with.

Not the one that sold you this, is it? No. No. Different person. Oh, no. Okay. Yeah, I would talk to them I would run the numbers because you guys are at retirement age and seeing what you would pay in penalties versus if you just slowly took this out over time because you're at that age. I would run the numbers, but man, more than likely, just for your kid's sake, from a legacy perspective, if you were to leave your kid something, I think I'd rather it be in an account that's earning more interest than what you guys are doing.

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If you have kicked debt to the Curve and Curve. Curve? Curve? I've always said Curve. What do you think it is? Kick to the Curve. Kick to the Curve?

It's not the Curve. It's the Curve.

C-u-r-b. That's what my sheet says. So as I was reading it, I was like, I don't know if that's what- Kick to the Curve?

That's what it says.

It's like Ron Burgundy in reading my sheet. Oh, my gosh. Okay, listen, if you are debt free and you have a fully funded emergency fund, do you know where you need to be? Not this March, but March of 2027.

Not in the Curve because you've kicked it. You kicked that Curve.

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All those people kicking their debt to the curve.

To the curve. I was like, I don't know if that's right. All right, let's go to Salt Lake City, and we have Grace, who is on the line. Hi, Grace.

Hi, guys. How are you guys today?

Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

So I'm going to try to make this not long. It's really hard with the situation. But basically me and my partner, we're both still technically married. He has two kids. Mom is gone. We're raising the two kids with us, too. We decided to combine our finances last summer, and we're in $91,000 of debt accumulated.

Okay.

Our monthly income is like 5,700 after taxes, and we just don't know what to do. And we have other expenses, too. Last week, we found out I was pregnant. And then we also- Wait, did you say you're married to him? We are both married to different people.

Okay.

Got you. So we live together and we've combined our finances.

Are you guys both in the middle of divorces?

Yes. So mine's finished in February. So mine's done almost. Okay. His, we haven't even started because of the custody and all that. He's not even- I would not- I would- If you were my sister, if you were my daughter, if you were my close friend, I would tell you, do not combine your finances to that mess until It is cleared. Okay.

Separate it. Please, please, please don't.

Because it can get so tangled. But how do we separate it when all these things are already accumulated?

We've all done it already. Just we've inmo each other. If you need to. But don't put your names on each other's stuff. Don't be combining accounts. Don't be doing any of that.

Okay, I see. Yeah, I don't think we've really done that. We have separate accounts and everything like that, but we

I'll pay his bills. He'll pay my bills. No, no, no, no, no, His assets and all of it. If you're paying on his debt, in that situation, I don't know, it gets all muddled so quickly. Yeah. I guess the problem is that we both don't have any assets besides our cars with car payments. We don't own houses. There's no money in the banks for either of us. It's like we are living week to week. We live off his paycheck one week, we live off my paycheck one week. That's how we're living our lives.

Okay, he's on the phone, so I just want to talk to you. Is that cool?

He's not on the phone.

I'm saying, right now, I want you to focus on what you can control, okay? Okay. How much money do you make?

I make... So what makes it complicated, too, is I'm on commission-based salary. So I make... My baseline is about $2,500 a month, and then more like $2,400 because I get paid Like, 1,200 bi-weekly. And then sometimes I take it $700 in a bonus in a month, and then sometimes it's three grand, sometimes it's four grand, sometimes it's $2,500. Or if I don't make goal, like last month, I didn't get a at all.

Okay, so that feels like you are very economically insecure.

Right.

What was your W-2 last year, or what did you report on your taxes last year?

$48,000. Okay.

So in a situation like this, Grace, what I would do is, we call it the Hills and Valleys Fund, if you will. I would be so diligent, and again, this gets really complicated because you guys are sharing Sharing bills and all of it.

Now you're sharing a human, right?

Mm-hmm.

Okay. So as much as you can to go through and draw a line and say, Okay, here's what I would owe, right? Whatever the utility is, I owe half. If you can function like roommates financially, I think that's going to be really important because I want you to get your money in order. So what John was getting at is, Hey, Grace, how much do you make? How much do you make? And you have to learn to live on your salary and your commission, right? And so how do we create a budget for you, Grace? Not for him, for you. And so what that means is, yeah, when you have a great month, that means you're probably going to put a thousand bucks or so into this other account so that when you have a month that's just $2,500 and you don't earn a commission, you can pull some money out to pay your part of the bills. So it needs to have a really, really black and white situation financially with him. Okay? That's the cleanest way to do it. And then when he gets through all of divorce stuff, and you guys, I mean, I'm assuming you guys get married eventually?

Yeah, that's the goal. I guess where it's complicated is that this $5,000 retainer is what's holding us up because Like the way that we... Because I've been listening to you guys on the show, and basically we were thinking we should combine everything and do everything like that.

Not until you're married.

We want to be married. If we could be married, we would have already gone to the courthouse.

Yes. I hear you. But it's not an emotional... It's a legal issue, right? So it's not, Oh, gosh, we want to be married, so we should combine finances. No, you're not legally married. You have no protection. So no, we're not combining finances. And is his the $5,000 retainer that he needs to figure out?

Right. It's for the kids. I mean, these kids are mommy-mom. It's a whole- I know, but, Grace, listen to me, and I know you don't want to hear this.

We're just telling you because we take these calls all day, every day. The chances of you working extra shifts, paying $4,000 of this $5,000 retainer, you paying the bills while he goes through his divorce, and then suddenly they reconcile, or suddenly he doesn't love you anymore, or suddenly whatever. And the reason I know that you have a psychology for that is because it's happened to you in your marriage. What you'll find yourself with is a brand new baby and you'll have nothing. Yeah. And so I care about the woman on the phone that I'm talking to. I care about him, too, but I'm not talking to him. He needs to come up with his money for his divorce. And by the way, you don't have enough money to even be helping with that. I feel like there's two people who are F math students trying to work together to get an A on an exam.

Yes.

Right? And so I want you to work on your math skills. And it may be, I got to a different job. It may be, I've got to figure out some new things. But I want you to start getting concrete under your feet, because your life right now is a seesaw, and that's exhausting.

Right.

And he can play on the seesaw all day long. But I I want you to stand on the sidewalk on firm concrete.

And this is going to be hard because this is not only a mathematical financial issue, it's a relational issue. Big time. If you do this, I will be surprised. It would be easier to get off the phone and just keep doing what you've been doing. And then you look in two years and, sadly, a reality hits. That's not the picture you painted. Or you do what we say, what we recommend. I mean, honestly, and you do this, and then he goes through all of his stuff. And my prayer is that, sure, at the end of all of it, you guys are still in love. You have a baby. Then you have a strong financial foundation under you. He does as well. You guys get married, you combine it all, and then you go from there. And you're actually building on something strong, not something that is so shaky like it now. But the way to do it, the smart way to build is separately. Financially, you need to be separate. You are roommates financially. You have to think about it that way.

Welcome to 2026. Last year is officially in the rear view, and you're fired up to finally make some changes with your money. New year, new goals. We love it. But let's be honest, old you said the exact same thing last January and the January before that. And before you know it, those money goals fizzle out faster than the fleeting flavor of La Croix. So here's the truth. New year motivation only gets you so far. You need an actual plan. And the good news is you don't have to figure it out on your own. Every dollar builds a personalized plan based on your goals and your real life, and it actually coaches you to stick with Plus, the EveryDollar app will help you find extra money hiding in your budget. And trust me, there's always something hiding. The average person finds $3,015 in the first 15 minutes. That's basically like giving yourself a raise and a much happier New Year. So don't let future you down. Make them proud. Go download the EveryDollar budget app and start for free right now.

Well, here in Nashville, Tennessee, we do the show live every day from 1: 00 to 4: 00 here on The Glass. We have always a wonderful audience that comes out. And over to the side, we have the debt-free stage. And whenever we see someone on it, we know what it is. And so we have we have Matthew and Bre from Nashville, Tennessee. Welcome, you guys. Thank you. Thank you. Happy to How are you doing? I'm very excited to be here. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so you're obviously on the stage. You guys are debt-free. That's correct. How much debt did you pay off?

A hundred and ten thousand.

Oh, my gosh. What did that consist of?

Two car notes, a little bit of student loans, and some personal loans.

Oh, my gosh. All consumer debt.

Yeah, consumer debt. We didn't have any credit card debt, thankfully. But we just decided to get after it and just paid it off.

I love it. How long did it take How long?

About 10 months.

Oh, my gosh. What were you guys making during that time?

Roughly about a hundred and fifteen a year, give or take. I work in health care, and so it can fluctuate just on the overtime. I'm a CT tech, and so we decided last year to go on an adventure. And instead of travel nursing, think of travel CT. And so we rented out our house, originally in Las Vegas. That's where I'm from.

And I'm from North Carolina.

Okay.

So moved to Las Vegas. Which is where we met. Yeah. We got married, and then we wanted to downsize everything. And then we did tiny house living.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. That was in Colorado. It was pretty gnarly. Oh, my God. How long have you all been married?

Three and a half years. Yeah.

Okay.

But literally last year, it was about a year ago today, we just looked at each other and we were like, We make too much money to be this darn broke as Dave says. And we knew that we didn't necessarily want to go into any more debt planning this move or moving or anything. And so we drew out a plan. And both of us had always talked about moving to Nashville. She went to college in East Tennessee. And I worked for a health care Corporation that's pretty big out here. And then I got the job for Vanderbilt. But we feel really, really blessed and really-Oh my gosh. Yeah, a lot of prayer was over this. And so we're excited to be here in Tennessee after a a lot of years of praying and figuring out where God was calling us to go.

So amazing. We did sell our house, so that was a big thing that just helped it. Okay, I was going to ask because you guys basically paid off the amount of debt you make in a year. So I was like, so something must have happened.

So we paid off roughly about 20 grand during the time of the whole travel thing because we've been out here since mid-July. And so it was when we made the move out. But we knew that we didn't want to go into any more debt that move because it was halfway across the country. So it was really an experience just eating homemade pizza. That was beautiful.

We just went on so many walks in the mountains and the nature, and just the stillness.

And that's really what we just soaked in.

That's amazing, you guys. So whose idea was it? So 10 months ago, who was the one that brought the conversation to the table that you were like...

So I had actually taken Dave's class almost like 15, 16 years ago. Oh, yeah. And So I think it was a 13-week course back then.

Oh, yes. That was the only time for you.

That's right. When I was 19. And I was like, Oh, my gosh. I have to start investing. I have to start doing all this type of stuff. And so I was able to go to college debt-free, just working multiple jobs. And then we got married. We got married, sorry.

We did. We got legally married first, and then we had our- Okay.

There was an exception. That makes sense.

Okay. And so we lived the, I hate to say this, but the Dave-ish. We just fell into that. Yeah. We're in the middle. Monotony. Totally. And then, like I said, last year, we really looked at each other and like, This is ridiculous. I didn't really know much about Dave Ramsey or anything.

And so he introduced me to it and what the baby steps were and just getting after it.

I love traveling. And so whenever I was looking at different jobs and traveling jobs and saw that his job could travel, I was like, the best of both worlds. And so, yeah, that's how we went with that route. Yeah. And so we knew we wanted to get out here eventually, but we knew that we didn't want to go into any more debt for that.

Yes. Totally. So you stopped that. So you were like, no more debt. So we got to say we got to be thinking about this move in a wise way while still thinking about all this other debt you have. We want to start paying it off.

Exactly. And so we just...

Downsized everything we could fit into our Subaru.

And then we had a trailer that we also had some stuff on it. And we sold that in Colorado.

And then that's what we brought with us. And then when we got here about seven months ago to Tennessee, then we got some stuff.

And we're in our apartment right now.

And so, yeah, we're excited for you guys.

What an adventure. It's been crazy. It's been so much change, but we're just excited now to settle down, hopefully have kids, and really, yeah, just see what's next. How does it feel being debt-free?

It feels really good. Like a big relief. It's just like a brick has been taken off our chest because we knew that it was coming, but it's just such relief, and we're never going back.

Yeah. No, definitely not.

I want to throw this example out. You guys are in Nashville right now? Yes. Yeah, we're around the Gold Cherry. And you all went through this wild storm last week.

Yes.

And my wife and I were talking. Imagine being in that moment and we have to get out of here. We need to go get a hotel or something, and we can't. And you all are debt free. You all go through this first big storm. And what you all got to do is what you all wanted to do because you've worked for this all this time, sold everything, did it. But we put ourselves in a position to not if, but When life happens, we get to decide what happens next.

Yes. Yeah. It's just... I've heard both of you say it's not an emergency, it's just an inconvenience. And it's- Isn't that wild?

It's like weather or you got to travel for a family thing, whatever it is. You're like, Okay, we can do this. We're good.

Definitely experienced that since we moved here because things happen, car crashes, all these random things, or a hospital bill from way back when two years ago shows up, and you're like, What?

And then you just pay it off and you're like, Whoa.

That was a really cool feeling. We just know that it was all through God and him helping us the whole time. We took care of... We were obviously chopping away at that tree on Baby Step 2, but then with the sell of the house, we just took care of Baby Step 3 as well.

How much did you get for the house when you sold?

We got over six figures. It was a big chunk of change. That is. That's great. We were able to put a little bit away. Now it's just sitting in an account. We want to buy a home out here, hopefully. But we're in no rush. We get to just take a breather and just- You're patient.

Nothing is urgent.

There's some great restaurants in the Gulf, and you all can just go when you want. Exactly.

It is nice. What would you besides selling a really nice house, what would you say the key of getting out of debt is? What was one of the things that was so helpful?

Obviously, we've been together for three, three and a half years, and communication. She's stressed. It's teamwork. I think definitely it has to be both of everybody's idea, coming together and what that looks like.

Finding that compromise of what that would be.

For us, it was traveling, but for other people, it could look different. Finding something that just inspires you to get to that point. I love that. I'm the free spirit, and she's definitely budget-minded.

Now I am, but I used to be the free spirit.

So we've- Yes, I'm like you. I'm such a free spirit, but I'm the one that tracks all the transactions. Every dollar. That's what my mom always did just in the household and now just being married a little bit.

It's not been that long, but just seeing parent roles and what they did and how to be a wife and what I'm supposed to be in charge of.

And so I'm just trying to- No, it's great.

Got all that. It's great. You guys are awesome. And how you are, personality-wise, you lean into that, which is amazing. And I see that in you guys. You create such a great team, which is so fun. And just the diligence and the adventure, which I love. That's a part of your story.

I've never heard somebody say that, but every couple has to pick their sacrifice. And for you all, it's selling the house. For you all, it was we're going to travel or we're not going to travel. For me and my wife, it might be something different. But every couple has to get together and choose their sacrifices. I love that. It's awesome.

All right. You guys ready? I think we're all ready. You're going to hold hands? We're going to hold hands. Okay, so we have Matthew and Bre from Colorado now live in Nashville, Tennessee. They've paid off $110,000 of debt. That's cars, student loans, and personal loans in 10 months, making $115,000 of income with the sale of a house. All right, you guys, count it down. Let's hear it. Hey, ready?

3, 2, 1. We're debt-free.

Amazing. Oh, my gosh. It's a joy. That's how it's done, people. That is how it's done.

Dude, they're smiling and dancing.

Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show, whether Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions. Com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions. Com.

Our scripture of the day comes from Jeremiah 29: 11, For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Jim Collins said, It is better to understand who you are than where you are going, for where you are going will almost surely change.

I love that quote.

That's good. Do you think we change, though? Who you are? Yes. So both. Both and, right, Jim? Understand who you are more than where you're going, because where you're going is going to change, but also who you are may change, too.

You need to kick that to the curve.

I don't know.

What? That attitude. What? No, Nia. I'm totally kidding.

You said we could change, too? I don't know. I like it all. I like it. These quotes are always great. We've done them for the entire beginning of the show. There's always a scripture and always a quote. Sometimes these quotes, I like to pick them apart, see what I would say differently. All right. Not that I would correct Jim Collins.

Sorry, Jim.

No, much wiser than me. I'm going to stick with your quote, Jim. All right, let's go to April in St. Louis. Hi, April. Hi. How are you? Hi. We're doing great. How can we help today? Good.

I'm in a great situation. I've paid off all my debt, and I'm investing. However, I want to know how you define the line of being generous without becoming the family bailout.

Oh, good question. What's the situation? Why would you be the family bailout? What's the family? What's the family need bailing out of?

A lot of things, actually. I have a sister who's on the brink of bankruptcy, and she's got two kids. I've been helping her with car situations. So I bought her a car, actually, ironically, in April, and it just took a itch. The engine just went on that. So I'm giving her my car and buying myself a new car. And then my parents, they not plan for their retirement. They're living on Social Security and droning because they've also taken on more debt that they can actually pay. So my dad does DoorDash, but they are drowning and they can't really pay their bills. So they come to me quite often to help out.

Gosh. Okay, so your situation, you obviously have done well. What's your networth?

Right now, well, I guess I'm married now, so our networth is just about three million. Okay.

And you guys are debt-free, everything. You guys are doing great. Completely debt-free. Yeah, go ahead.

I went through my own journey of realizing how much I was paying to interest. I had credit cards and auto loans and student debt, and I took on second jobs to get myself to a position between 25 and 32 of being debt-free and then starting to invest. And then my husband, he had a really great example. So he bought a home when he was 25 was able to pay that off quickly.

Oh, well, yeah. You guys were just wise.

We're in a really fortunate situation, but my family is not.

But you worked for it. You made smart decisions, too. So give yourself that credit. Yeah.

Thank you.

So I like to think of generosity as a It's like an approach, right? It's like a spirit of. And so everybody has to decide what that means for themselves. Some people's generosity, they look at it like an ROI. I I want to give to something. I want to give to things that I want to see multiply. Some people like to give just because I want to be a part of what you're doing. Some people want to give because I don't like it, but it's the right thing. I have deemed it to be the right thing, right? But none of that comes from a spirit of guilt. That's where I'm at. Here's the other thing. None of it comes from a spirit of somebody's going to be worse off because I kept doing this. Because then my guilt ends up putting somebody in a worse position.

It's never the guilt of them being in a bad position, but it's the guilt of them not learning from their mistakes, is the problem that I grapple with.

Yeah, but the challenge is they're not interested in learning right now. Correct. Right. And so I think it's having that conversation. And it sounds to me, in my head, there would be a difference between my parents' situation and my sister, right? But again, everybody's different.

That's meaning of just taking care of. Yeah.

I mean, it's cool to say, They didn't plan, so they're on their own. But also, I'm not going to let my parents be homeless, right? Especially if I'm in a position where I can help out. But I might sit down and say, Hey, if you take on any more debt, I can't contribute to this.

Right? Yeah.

Or I need you to make a budget.

Have you had hard conversations in general, April, with them?

Yeah, I have. And I've even sat down and worked budgets with them. And then the next month, they just blow that up, and they do whatever they want, and they buy whatever they want. So we've gone through several conversations of how can they do better and what can we do to set them on the right path. They went through their own foreclosure and bankruptcy. Oh, my God.

That's what they were doing six years ago. Oh my gosh. I mean, nothing's waking them up, it sounds like.

No, they've had two bankruptcies, actually. So you go through financial literacy training with a bankruptcy. So it really boggles my mind that they're just not learning. How old are they? 70. They're just 70.

And what would happen if you didn't... I'm just curious. If you did not give them any money, what would happen to them? Would they not be able to pay their mortgage? Like, Logistically, what happens?

I think that they would fall into a position where they couldn't pay their rent, and they would eventually have some eviction process.

And then what?

I don't know because physically, they also can't. Physically, financially, they're not capable. We're actually looking at my mom going into an assisted living because of how bad things are. And so it's more than just financial. But I love to dedicate my time to help them with their problem, and I do dedicate my money. But there's a give and take. Yeah.

Personally, if somebody comes to me, if a buddy of mine from back in the day comes to me and says, Hey, I'm struggling with X, Y, and Z. I need some help. I'm much more likely to say, I will help with this car repair, or I will pay the landlord directly, or me and two of my siblings will contribute to the long-term care. I'm not going to write you a check and hand you cash.

Right.

Right. Right. So I'm not going to do this because you have proven over and over you can't handle this stuff. I think you and your husband need to get in a room together and just decide- Yeah, what does he say? What are our boundaries going to be.

What's your husband say about it?

So this is where we break all the Ramsey rules because we've been together 13, 14 years, married three of those, and we never completely merged our checking.

Okay. So does he know you're giving them money?

He knows. Yeah, he knows. It's always a conversation every time I do it because it's our future. We do have planning together.

This is a recipe for simmering resentment over time.

Yeah.

So I think this is the moment, April, honestly, that you guys combine everything and you say we are a team, which means we're going to tackle one of the hardest issues. Probably we're going to have to in a while. And that's what is being generous with my parents look like. And we're going to agree together on that with our money. And there's something about that spirit that... It's almost like you're adding a conflict to a really hard thing. But there's a part of me that it forces it all out there for you guys, and it forces you to face the music together. And for you maybe to hear some things you may not want to hear or need to hear, vice versa with him. I don't know. There's something about it that I'm like, You guys need to go all in together. And this is one of the springboard moments to allow it. Yeah.

I would just metabolize. Nothing you can say or do is going to change how your parents act. That ship has sailed. You have to decide what are you going to contribute out of a generosity. I'm going to do X, Y, or Z, but we're done trying to teach. As for your sister, maybe you say, This is the last time I bail you out unless you want to do a budget with me.

Thanks for the call, April. Thanks to everyone in the boost. John, thank you as always. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.