Transcript of "My Wife Is Making Financial Decisions Without Me"

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Horsha. Next to me, Dr. John Deloney in the house, taking calls about your life and your money. We're going to the phone lines. You know the deal. We have Greg in Phoenix, Arizona. What's going on, Greg?

Hi. Yes, this is Greg, and I have about $10,000 in credit card debt. I keep making payments on it, and it ends up going right back up to $10,000 due to my drinking.

Oh, no. Yikes, man. What are you doing to get a handle on your drinking, brother?

I'm I'm getting back into the AA programs and church programs, but yeah, getting back into it.

Are you ready to commit all in?

Yes, I am.

Yeah. So How can we help you today, man?

Well, I originally reached out to see if there was any other advice besides cutting up my credit card. Anything besides that would be appreciative.

Is it just you?

Do you not want to do that?

No, I do. I have a little bit of nerves about it when it comes to emergencies and things like that. I have to use my truck a lot for work, so I'm going to have to change the tires on it pretty soon. I know I'm going to need a credit card for that.

Have you... Oh, sorry. Sorry, Jade.

No, go ahead. I was going to say, if we give you a financial solution for that, for the things that you're concerned about, Is that all that's keeping you?

What do you mean all that's keeping me?

If you leave this call today and I give you a plan for why you don't have to fear tires on the truck or all of those things that you're feeling like, Hey, I need the credit card to fall back on, would that be enough for you then to cut it up?

Yes, for sure.

All right. So you've been to AA before?

Yes.

What would they tell you if you went into AA and they said, Are you ready? And you said, Yes, except I still need to hang out with these guys. I still need to go to this bar once a week, and I still need to do something else. Would they have any confidence that you were going to be able to change what alcohol is serving to cover up for you?

No, they wouldn't.

Okay. So as long as you keep this backup plan on you at all times, 24/7, 365, the chances of you using this backup plan are 100 %. The path forward is really, say, never again. And when you walk into your first AA meeting, it has to be never again. And when it comes to, I'm tired of making as much money as I do. And every month, I don't even know where it goes. I just look up and I'm back in the whole 10 grand. Until you decide, I'm done with this and follow the plan Jade is going to lay out for you. And by the way, getting sober, it's not easy. It's It's hard. Cost you a lot, and it's worth it. And getting out of debt is hard. It costs you a lot. And dude, the path is freedom and peace, man. It's worth everything. You just got to say, I'm either in or I'm out.

I'm in, so I'm ready to hear it.

It's awesome.

That's really good. Yeah, we're proud of you. So let's talk about the money side of this. So you got tires on the truck coming up. It sounds like basically what's happened is you've gotten a paycheck to paycheck cycle. Yeah?

Yes.

Okay. So what are you bringing in every month? What comes into your hands every single month?

I just started a job three months ago. I'm making 75K plus commission. I do have a 1,500 a month car allowance, so it's more like 90K plus commission.

Okay, good. Okay, so you've got a car allowance of a high amount. That's crazy. So how much are you actually bringing home your check? What are you writing on your budget?

What I'm bringing home is approximately after taxes and everything, about five grand a month right now.

Okay. And is it just you or do you have family?

Well, I'm engaged, and I'm about to move in with my fiancé within a couple of months in May also. So that's another reason why I'm holding on to the credit card a little bit.

Okay, so I want to challenge that. I don't want to bite off too much to chew in this little bit of time. But first things first is you getting yourself together. Amen. And that is on the addiction side and on the financial side. Adding a whole other person to this right now and moving in together. I'm sorry, John, I'm getting into your territory, but that feels like not the right move at this point in time, right? You got a lot on your plate.

It's like holding matches over an open flame and deciding, You know what? I'm going to pick up a gas can, too, while I'm standing here. You're just going to make everything way more complex.

Yeah.

And it's not to say you can't keep dating this lady or whatever, but accelerating to that point just feels like it doesn't feel like the right move. So you've got good money coming in. You've got a great allowance here. Now, the only thing is we got to get this into a budget because there's something, obviously, before it was the addiction that was spending all your money. But right now, something else is eating your lunch on a month-to-month basis. How much are you paying every month for rent?

1,300.

Okay, so that's not the problem. What is your car payment?

I'm $750 away from having it completely paid off.

Atta boy.

Way to go, dude. Amazing. Okay. And once it's paid off, do you still get the $1,500 allowance for your car? Yes, I do. Okay, so why can't we use that for tires? Can you get tires for $1,500?

Yes.

I love this. I love this. Yeah, this is awesome. So is that it? Is that just the solution? Do we need to talk about anything else?

I know that you all say it's a bad idea with moving in and whatnot, but this has been the plan for a few months now, so it's going to be hard to reverse that.

Not really. It's going to require some tough conversations. I have a sense. I don't know the lady, but you just called here and you laid some pretty heavy things on the table, and it made perfect sense to me. It was like, Oh, logical. Makes sense. So I got to believe that if you talk to her and you say, Hey, here's what I'm going through today. It doesn't make sense to what John's point says. I'm standing in front of a fire. I don't want to add you and make this complex for both you and I.

Let me flip it around. If If your fiance was a friend of mine, she was my sister and my daughter, I would tell her, Hey, continue to love this guy. You've decided you want to spend the rest of your life with him, but he's got to go get well before you fully anchor in. And he's got to commit to look at himself in the mirror and saying, I'm worth sobriety. I'm worth this amazing job opportunity I've got. I'm worth cleaning up and being disciplined with my finances, committing to something and not wavering. And then you can feel free to anchor into that concrete. That's what I would tell her. And my guess is you would tell, if that was your sister or your friend, you'd tell them the same thing. And so it's just a matter of, man, what you need right now is a simple plan, a simple path. And the more complexity you add to this thing, the more variables you throw in there, I'm just going to keep the car just in case, the more opportunities you have to trip and fall.

Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, nobody's telling you not to stay engaged, not to potentially marry this woman, but just do it the right way. And before you go, we're going to make sure Christian picks up and gets you every dollar because you need it. So you can see where all of your money, all that $5,000 plus that car allowance, see where it's going every month. And promise me today, you'll cut up the credit cards and buy the tires in cash. You've worked too hard to get control of your money just to let strangers control your data.

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That's joindeleteme. Com/ramsey. All right, back to the phone lines where we have Matthew in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi, Matthew.

Hey, how's it going?

Doing good. How can we help today?

Hey, I'm calling in because I'm in a unique situation here where my wife and I, praise God, just paid off all of our debt, over $150,000 worth of debt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome. Yeah, it feels really good. We did it in a couple of years' time. That feels good. We're freshly married. We got on board paying off debt even before the wedding and just so we were on the same page even during dating. So we've been doing everything right, trying to follow the baby steps. Now we're ready to replenish our emergency fund and baby step number two. The problem is, is my wife just dropped this bomb on me today that she is with with or without my permission, going to get her parents a used car.

With or without your permission? Please tell me how that was said.

Well, so here's the thing. It's with or without my permission because she upfront paid a lot of my student loans off, and we ended up paying a bulk of it off together. Okay. But as long as you already understand- So you owe her.

You owe her is what she's saying.

Uh-oh. As the great Warren G once said, Hold up. You all paid off you all's student loan debt.

That's how I see it. I see it as like, we already have a combined checking, combined savings, combined high-yield savings account. We have combined everything finances. And so I don't have a problem with her wanting to do something nice for her parents. I love them, and I want to do that for them, too. But the thing I have hold up on is the precedent that's set of, Hey, whether you are on board for this or not, this is on my heart, and I'm going to do it no matter what.

All right, so let me flip this around real quick. Are you a person who can hear that conversation from her and honor it and figure out ways to connect with her on it?

What do you mean by that?

Meaning, sometimes we make bold statements like that, I'm going with or without you, because the person we've been trying to communicate with is is stuck in concrete. And so anytime somebody says something that just sounds out of character or just sounds wild, you don't have permission, like you're all are mom and dad and some weird marriage. Anytime somebody says that, there's just a personal thing. I go to the mirror and see, have I made it hard for that person to connect with me?

Yeah, I hear your question. I don't think so. I'm only saying that because the way I responded to that was, Hey, I would love to do that for them, and I support you. Let's get it on our financial timeline so we can figure out where we can do that for them. And she decided to hone in on the fact of she needs my approval or something. And she's saying that she doesn't need it because she paid off all this debt.

And I just don't feel like that's us on the same page.

So that tells me, and John, strike me out of the conversation at any point. But what this is telling me is there was some part of her while that process was happening, that she was doing it, but she didn't really want to do it, or she was feeling a type of way and never voiced it, and now it's like resentment is there, which you got to nip that in the bud with the quickness.

Yes. Scorekeeping will destroy relationships.

Oh, man. Now, can I add something else to the conversation that it could be, but I don't think it is? And again, John, come get me if I'm out here. I do think in marriage, there's times where we're trying to accomplish a greater good, or we're trying to go in the direction that we say we want to go and that we value. And one spouse will make a concession in order to do so. And then there are seasons where another spouse makes more of a concession to do so. There can be times where you're like, I feel like I'm making a lot of concessions, and I want to feel like I'm being met also in the way of we're both sacrificing. There's a part of that. I don't think that this is that, but I also just wanted to put space that to be there. And if it is that, she has communicated it in a way that makes it seem like it's not that.

In a bad way, yeah. So here's your path forward, brother. It's to back completely out of the money conversation for a minute. Okay, so money fights are almost always, we've been saying this for years, money fights are almost always simply lights on the dashboard for a bigger issue under the hood. And so here's the framework I want you to She was walking into this. Are you ready? Sure. I want you to say, Hey, I want to have a pretty heavy conversation with you. Is now a good time, or is this evening a good time? If she says yes, great. The next question is, The story I've made up is. That's how I want you to approach her. The story I've made up is, you resent having helped me pay off these student loans. The story I'm choosing to make up is, I thought we were together, and it turns out we're not. The story I'm choosing to make up is, you now feel like I owe you that somehow I'm less than, somehow you're just going to make these decisions like a cowboy or a cowgirl. And then the next one is, here's how I feel about that.

That makes me feel small. It makes me feel like we're not on the same team. And give her a chance to respond to that. Because what you're talking about there is, A, you're being humble and saying, I'm making up a story here Because you don't know what is going on in her heart and mind. And you're telling her exactly how you feel about it. And you're giving her space to say, actually, that's not happening at all, or giving her space to say, you know what, I said that wrong, or giving her space to say, yeah, I've been harboring a lot of resentment. And if that's the case, you all got to deal with that now because it will burn your marriage to the ground.

Yeah, got you.

If you come at her using you statements, you said this, you did this, she's going to I'll call you wall up and fight you back, because the word you is often a declaration of war when you're mad, when you're frustrated.

I always try and frame things whenever we have a disagreement or discussion, I always try and isolate the behavior and not the person. That way, I'm not saying you are this thing. I'm saying this behavior made me feel a certain way.

Okay. I want you to go one step further. Just start the whole conversation with the letter I. I made this story up about what just happened, and I feel this that way about it. Because even isolating the behavior, it's a workaround to an accusation, right? Yeah. But you say in the word I, you take an ownership. This is what I'm making up, and this is how I feel about this thing. It gives her an opportunity. It's an invitation to respond. And if she says, Screw you, if she says, I don't care, she says, I've been doing all this for you, and now I'm going to finally do something for myself, you all got to get on the same page with that deal.

And can I just add a piece to that? If it is, I will almost... Because I'm listening to this, and there's part of me that's going, You guys are newlyweds. I'm actually really glad this is coming up now instead of later. And I might add that in and say, If I'm right, if I'm feeling this and it's accurate. Just hear me say, I'm glad that this is happening now than later, because this is something I want to work out.

Because that's wonderful. Because if this is how she rolls, it's going to show up in the home you buy, it's going to show up the kids you have, it's going to show up in the jobs you do don't take. It's going to show up the rest of your life. And so getting back on the same page now, giving her an opportunity to explain, Here's what I meant, here's what I was feeling. Here's what's going on inside her spirit. Man, that's a blessing and a gift. And like Jade said, every couple of you've ever met goes through things like this. And the fact that you're having this happen early on and you have the courage to face it head-on, man, that's awesome.

That's really good. So you're going to do it? You'll have the conversation?

Yeah, I'm going to have the conversation I think it's also not even just about the car thing. I think it's more about what you said earlier about scorekeeping because my student loan debt that was paid off gets brought up in a myriad of conversations, not just this one. Okay. It's always like my behavior or her behavior is justified or mine's just, you know, disregarded because the student loan debt once existed. How much was it? It's just the college loan that keeps being brought up. It was $120,000 of student loan debt.

Yeah. Yeah, that's tough. That's tough. It's definitely something to work out. And you might need some mediation. You might need a counselor to help you be able to speak about it in a way that's not harmful, but you're making progress and not just circling around it. It sounds like maybe she is.

And both things can be true here, right? She signed up to marry a guy. It's tough. With 120 grand, and that's super frustrating. It's tough. Both are true. Yes. She's allowed to have her feelings hurt, and she's allowed to be annoyed and allowed to be frustrated. And also, she made a commitment You and I ride or die till death do us part. And so both things can be true. You can feel all kinds of ways, but you got to be emotionally mature and go do the next right thing. That's right. That's right.

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Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. One of my buddies said, Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. I immediately went and got term life insurance.

That's a gut punch.

You're telling me for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them, and they don't know what to do next.

Me too. It's terrifying. You're going to have a crisis here. You got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly right. These are the two options. Take care of your dadgum family, man.

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All right, let's get back to the phone lines where we have John, who's in Reno, Nevada, which, by the way, whenever I think of Reno, Nevada, I think of the movie Sister Act. It will always be that way. I'm sorry, John. How can we help today?

Hey, guys. It's a pleasure to be on the phone with you. How are you doing today?

Doing good. How can we help?

Good. My wife and I are in around $86,000 in debt, and I'm considering moving us to the hood.

What does that mean? Tell me more. Not to the hood. What does that mean?

Yeah. What? The area I'm considering, we're considering is it's not the best, it's not the worst. It's certainly not what we're used to, though.

Sorry, I'm still processing.

If you're trying to pay off $86,000 of debt, very little, if anything, of your old life should look like what you're going through.

That's true.

Yeah, that's fair.

So if you say... I don't know. Where I come from, that can be a derogatory term. If you're telling me, Hey, we're going to move to a way cheaper place to live, maybe bikes in a car or two in the yard, whatever, but it's a safe place to live, we're going to do our life, and we're going to pay off our debts, I would say, Do it today. Oh, okay. If you say, I'm going to put me and my family in harm's way, we're going to be unsafe, then I would say that's not wise.

Okay, that's fair. That's fair.

Yeah. I'm with John. Going to a lower-cost apartment, great. Trading in your car for a beater, great. If the hood If COVID is a place where there are certain people, then we might have issue. But if you're just like, Hey, I'm just really trying to cut down my lifestyle, then by all means- Get on it, dude. Get on it. Jump on it.

All right.

Thank you. And by the way, if you say the words or think the words, This isn't how it used to be, you're probably on the right track. We used to be able to go out to eat, now we're not anymore. Good. We used to drive really fancy fancy cars with insane payments every month, and we're not anymore. Good. We used to have a house that we couldn't afford or live in a super fancy apartment, and we could barely make rent. And now we're living in a way smaller place in a dive apartment for a season. Good, good, and good. You got to make radical changes, man. But also, you got to keep yourself safe.

Okay.

Tell us more.

I'm listening. Okay. Well, Right now, our rent is about 2,500. We also have two kids.

I was going to say, I hear them back there.

Yeah, we got two kids. I work night. Overnight, as a truck driver, I go to Sacramento and back, which is about 138 miles away. So from about... I don't know if I should put my hours on gone, but I'm gone for about 12 to 14 hours.

What do you bring in every month doing that?

I bring in 6,900.

Okay. And does your wife bring in any? I know she's taking care of the kids, but does she bring any income in?

Yeah, she brings in about $1,000 a month.

Okay. So on that income, I mean, you're almost at 8,000 bucks a month. You should be able to float I mean, it's a little over, but the $2,500 rent, it's not the thing that's 100 % breaking you. But I mean, how much cheaper do you think you could go and still be in an environment that's good for you guys and safe for you and whatever Well, I'm going to be honest.

I think that the $900 is safe. I mean, there's things that are like, 1,300, and they're in areas that are similar. And I figured, Hey, if I'm going to go 1,300 and be in a similar area, might as well just go down to the cheapest I can find.

Yeah, why not?

It's a one bedroom.

Yeah. And dude, just know, make a deal with you and your wife. This is for a short season. My wife and I sold our house and moved into a residence hall, into a college dorm with a toddler. We did it for one year, and it completely transformed our life. Yeah.

If your wife is on board and it's accomplishing, it's ticking all the boxes, yeah, why not? You guys are young. Now's the time to do it. Again, it's not the be all in doll. It's not forever. But yeah, why not?

But here's a way to burn a hole through your marriage, brother. If you're paying 2,500 bucks now and you find a place for a thousand, and that $1,500 is not piling on whatever else you all can come up with to pay off this debt, and it just slowly goes and DoorDash orders, and you come home with some cool, I don't know, speakers, or I don't know, whatever, you come home with something, that's going to end up being a big problem. So if you all make this commitment, make it for a season, and be really diligent about getting this debt knocked out.

Yeah, that's all you can do. Thank you for the call. That's a good one. All right, let's go to Justin, who's in Houston, Texas. Hey, what's up, Justin?

Not too much. How are you all doing today?

We're doing good. How can we help?

I just really have a question My wife and I both work. We just had our third child, so three girls for us, and was just really looking for some advice or how to decide if my wife should continue to work or if she should be a stay-at-home mom. She recently got a new job where she's making pretty good money, working fully remote, but she's struggling with the... Should she stay at home or should she keep working?

What does she want to do?

She doesn't know. She's torn. I think part of the challenge is experience-wise, she was a school teacher for a long time. She's gotten into some good work, and this job is really through a couple of connections, and I think she recognizes that, and it's going to be hard to replicate if she were to take a break and be a mom for a couple of years. But I think her heart's telling her that might be the direction she wants to go.

Yeah. Is there any financial weight of this that we should consider?

The struggle we have right now, she makes, like I said, good money. It's comparing the daycare cost to that. And really money-wise, that's not really an issue.

Okay. You don't need the money.

We don't need the money.

Okay. There's no wrong or answer on this, right? This is completely a values-based question. I would be looking at a way to do this. I have found that when I'm making really major decisions like this, what really helps me is to figure out all the variables that are actually weighing in on my decision that I'm not even aware of. So that's why I asked, is there a financial thing that could be somewhere in the back of her mind? Is there some expectations she might be feeling from you that's somewhere in the back of her mind? Is there any other variables to this other than what a It's a great opportunity, right?

Sure. And that makes a lot of sense. And I think, again, my view is I think she's always worked her whole life. So I think part of her is feeling like she'd be giving up some independence, perhaps. There you go. For being fully reliant on me to take care of the family. But I think we also recognize that salary-wise, I'm three or four X her, so it's not really an issue at this point, right? Yeah.

I've watched my wife, I call it the... And Jade, tell me if you resonate with this. I call it the the American Mother Guilt Factory, there's not really a way to win, right? There's not. I've watched my wife, who was a gangster research professor, a small business owner, and then a full-time mom, and then a teacher, navigate these identities. And that's the part as her husband, I way underestimated, is the weight of I'm a professional versus I am a stay at home. I always feel like I should be doing something else. The way we've navigated this in our house, Jade, is we always make short term decisions, meaning let's try this for a season.

You can always change.

And if this job doesn't work out, she's proven to herself, there are people who will hire me, and I do bring value. I'm going to go all in. I'm going to go full commit to staying at home for six months or a year, and then we're going to circle back up and see if this is still the right path, or I'm going to quit this job. I'm going to stay in this job full-time, and I'm going to do that for six months or a year and see how we are all, how our house is operating, how I feel, how you feel, how we're working together. But I think the trap feels like either decision is a forever decision, and it's just not.

Yeah, I think that's exactly how she feels. It's whatever is... And any of the either decision is going to be a permanent, and I work on that one.

Yeah. So do the next right decision for this season.

Yeah, you've got time. I love that idea. And there's also maybe there's a world where she works part-time and she's a little bit wearing the boss hat and a little bit wearing the mom hat.

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Org, Equal Housing Lender. Jade, I want to rally America together to wish you a happy birthday.

Happy birthday. Thank you. I appreciate it.

21 is a big one. You can drink now. It's the whole thing.

John, I mean, come on. Just tell them the truth. I'm 35. I've been-26. I've been 35 for about seven years now, and it's a great age.

That's awesome. I would have put money on 28 or younger, so well done.

Thank you. Well, after having talked about that, let's talk about something even more troubling, which is tax season. Okay, it doesn't have to be troubling, though. If you have a simple tax situation, like if you haven't had any major life changes or big investments, you could really just use Ramsey Smart Tax. Ramsey Smart Tax is affordable and it keeps filing simple. Plus, it has built-in support in case you need a little help. Filing early means getting the best deals and you get the tax stress off your shoulders. So as soon as you get all your tax documents, go on and go to ramsey solutions. Com/smarttax and start filing immediately. Okay, let's go to the phone lines. We've got Christine in Newark, New Jersey. Hi, Christine.

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

You're welcome. How can we help today?

So I'm...

One of those I'm trying to figure out.

Yeah, yes, it is definitely one of those.

Hey, do me a favor. Talk directly into your phone for me, Christine.

Oh, okay. Sorry. Perfect. Thank you. Is it a little bit better? Okay. Go for it. I put myself into a lot of debt, and I was trying to be proactive in this situation, and I joined one of these debt relief programs where you pay monthly and then there's a settlement fee or whatever. Being in that process, I actually helped my ex-boyfriend get a car. He got that car, we pulled. So now I'm accumulating more debt outside of what I already have in my creditors debt relief program. My question is, is it best for me to maybe just file for vacancy because I'm still getting calls from the other creditors who are in my debt relief program, just trying to negotiate or sending me notifications about whatever the balances that are owed. And now I'm accumulating even more debt outside with the repo. And it's uncontrollable for me right now. I'm paying maybe some $366 towards this debt relief program to three creditors, and I'm only paying one of the creditors at this point. And I was thinking it's going to take me years to try to get all of them settled. And I don't want to keep on to this investing in something that's just going to...

I don't know. That's not helpful at the end. So I wasn't sure what to do.

Well, Yeah, that's very stressful. If you're making many deep breaths right now, I understand that, and you should keep doing that. So let me just make sure I understand the repoed car. Your name was on the repowed car?

Yes, it is.

Was it rolled into the debt relief or it's just separate and they're just coming after you for the difference?

It's separate. Exactly. Yeah. It was not part of the debt relief. It's separate, and they're coming after me, too.

Understood. Let me talk about the repowed car first. What is the deficit that they're coming What car is that after you four?

14,000.

Oh, girlfriend. Okay. Mm-hmm. They've already auctioned the car off? Or is it- Yeah.

It's already taken. Yeah, I can't get it. Okay.

And you don't know where your ex-boyfriend is?

I do and I don't. I try to no-contact type of situation. No-contact.

Okay. So I'm just going to hit you with something that just really, really, really sucks. And I think you know this. That is on you, girl. Unfortunately, when you sign, when you cosign with somebody, you're just as liable for the debt. And you could say, if you said, I'm not going to pay it, you're just going to feel the dings and the dings and the dings and the dings on your credit. And I feel like it's more so about it dinging up your piece because they're calling you, right? So you're going to have to add this to your snowball. And I hate to tell you that it is a lesson learned the hard way. Sorry.

So what's your total debt load that you're trying to get relief from?

So it's three creditors. One is 11,000, another is 8,000, and then another is 6,000. Okay. So in that ex-relationship, I pretty much... One was a loan, and then two were credit cards that I maxed out just so I can leave the situation and get an apartment on my own. Understood. So I maxed that.

So what do you make a year?

A year? I know I bring home maybe 38, 39 a month. Okay. And then there's overtime and things like that.

With overtime, what does it look like on a month where you do some good overtime?

You know what?

To be honest, actually, I want to say that's including the overtime.

Okay. I always like to know where people's housing fits in that equation, because if you're paying too much for your housing, it throws this whole thing off kilter. So what are you paying for housing?

So right now, I'm in an apartment complex, and it's like $18. 92. Okay.

That's what's eating your lunch.

Christine, that's half your How did that come?

I'm literally living paycheck to paycheck. But on top of that, I'm in one of those stupid app situations where you can borrow from your next paycheck. Oh, girl, stop. Yeah, I know. I'm telling you, this is what I've done to myself. I know. I know. Okay. That's why... Sorry.

We're both on your side.

Yeah, we're on your side.

But you got to stop. Are you with us?

Yeah, I'm here.

Okay. All right. So when's your lease up?

It would be next June. Not this June, but next June.

Okay. Is it a one bedroom or a two?

It's actually a three bedroom. I have three kids with me. Oh, you have kids? So three and three. Oh, you have kids? You have three kids.

Oh, you have kids. Oh, my goodness. You have three kids. Okay. So what I try to do is I'd go to the leasing office and I'd say, Hey... Because I'm pretty sure you can do this. If you just say, Hey, I just want to switch apartments in the complex. This one, I'm having a hard... This one's just too much for me. I want to go down to a two bedroom, or I want to go down to a one bedroom, and maybe I put... Whatever you have to do, I put myself on the fold-out couch and I put two kids in one room, and if there's a baby, I put the baby in the crib next to me. That's what you need to do ASAP, because with three kids, I will hate myself saying, You need to work more. That feels very impossible. I'm sure there's something you can do, but I feel like the bigger way that you can make an impact is on that line item on your budget and basically to cut it down to, I don't know, 1,000, 1,100, somewhere in that range. Do you see what I'm saying?

No, I understand.

I see. And it's going to feel terrible. You're going to feel like, I have three kids. I'm making them share a room. I'm uprooting their life. I'm making them, I'm making them, I'm making them. You're going to make them understand what it looks like to write wrongs and make things right. And that's the lesson that you're going to be teaching them doing this. So tell yourself that when you start beating yourself up.

Jane, would you recommend she quit paying on this debt relief nonsense?

Yeah, let's go to that. That's super... Yeah, debt relief, done.

We're done. It's a scam.

The reason that they're calling you, the reason they're calling you is because the way those places work is they say, Pay us the money. We're going to hold it in a pool, basically, and we're going to wait a Until these creditors get desperate and they're ready to make a deal. That's why they're calling you, because they haven't been paid. And so you've probably paid a bunch into a pool. How much have you paid in?

So I've been in this debt relief for maybe two years now.

Oh, my gosh. And nothing's been paid off?

And nothing's been paid off because the worst of it was the larger amount creditor is the one that offered first, and I accepted it because I didn't know at time what to do. So that's the $11,000 one, and it's like I haven't made a dent in it.

Yeah. So we're getting out of that today. If I were you, I'd call them up and say, I don't want to keep doing this anymore. What's going to happen? And just make sure you read through what the contracts said so that you can come into the conversation and say, Hey, I want to get out of this. I realize this is what I must pay or this is the penalty because there's going to be some penalty fee. And just realize this was not the way out. There's a couple of things, Christine, that you're going to pay what we call here stupid tax, which is it's really an I didn't know tax, and you're going to feel that. It's going to be in way of, I spent years paying a debt relief program to get nowhere, and unfortunately, I cosigned on a loan. But what you're going to find is doing this on your own, you are going to go so much further, faster. Christian is going to pick up. We're going to set you up with every dollar, and there's free coaching on there. I want you to call the number to get a couple of minutes of free coaching so you can figure your next right steps, and call us back anytime you need us.

We'll be here to help you.

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It's earning advertising. Results may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. We're going back to the phone lines where we have Ethan, who is in my favorite place, Miami, Florida. What's going on, Ethan?

Hey, guys. How are you guys doing?

Doing great. How can we help today?

I'm trying to keep it brief for you guys. I more or less have put myself in a hole over the last six months or so. Made some dumb decisions and have locked myself in a financial bind. I recently moved to Miami for work back in October, and it was about a $10,000 move. And to make it happen, I had to borrow money across some different avenues to make the move. My rent is right at $3,000 a month. And late last year, I actually bought my wife a new car. She needed a car. And the payment for that is around $900 a month.

God Almighty. That's a lot of money.

Yeah, it's pretty bad.

What's the full balance of the vehicle?

We owe about 50,000 on it.

Wow.

Okay. And we're actually underwater. I've already looked in to try the... I'm sorry, I use the wrong phrase. We're upside down on it.

What's it saying for private sale?

About 30.

Oh, is it an EV?

It is a 2025 Grand Cherokee. How much do you make it a month, dude?

How much you bring home?

My salary is right at 6,000 a month.

What about your wife?

My wife is a stay-at-home mom.

How in the world did you figure a $50,000 vehicle?

My wife has very good credit, and the dealer who sold it to us used my income as the household income using her credit.

Oh, boy, oh, boy, oh, boy. All right, let's do this. Let's don't blame anybody. Let's say I made an irresponsible purchase.

Yes, it's fully on me. I take full responsibility.

How many kids you all have?

We have one son. He is eight months.

This is a hard truth that I'm putting on the table. You all have put yourself in a position where I don't believe you can afford right now to uphold this value that you're holding, which is We want her to stay at home with our kid for right now. You all have a huge mess. That can be solved in a year, in two years of everybody pitching in and going full bore. But, bro, you're your water.

Is that it? When I say just, is there anything to add to the pile of the $10,000 you borrowed plus the $20,000 you're upside down? Is there more debt?

I believe that's about it. The $10,000 spread across a couple of different avenues.

Are there people, like family members? Yes. Did you borrow from family members? Yes. Okay. So the good news is, the way the debt snowball works, it's advantageous for the family members that you borrowed from, and it's also advantageous for you because whenever there's people, you've loaned money to family, it's just very, very sticky, and I want to clean that up for you. Here's the thing. Making $100,000 a year is not what it once was. And what happens is you get this salary and you're like, Yes, I'm making six figures. And it feels like it's going to be a way. And then you're like, I made it to the pinnacle. John Deloney, I remember that was the goal forever. If you can make $100,000. I was obsessed with that goal. Yes. And then it's like, If I do that, I can get the place I want, I can get the car I want, I can live. It was like, that was the unlock. It's not. It's just not. The way the world is, how expensive stuff is, and don't add a little bit of debt to it, right? That money dwindles very quickly, which is what you're experiencing.

Am I right, Ethan?

Yes, that's right. To add to the situation, it's I am paycheck to paycheck right now.

It's because of your rent, buddy. It's because your rent, Ethan, is 50 % of your take home pay. There is no extra. There's nothing left. I understand. You could be a very reasonable spender, but when your rent is 50 % of your take home pay, everything is tight. So first things first. First things first is We need to find a cheaper spot. Now, you're in Miami. Is there a way to go a little bit north? Can we go to an area that's less expensive? Can you go... Do you see what I'm saying?

I believe so. The whole issue with moving is just the lease. To break the lease- How much is it going to be?

Two months?

It's two months to break the lease.

Okay, but think about that. If you keep this around for the rest of the year that you owe it, think about how much you're going to be throwing away. If you can find a place that you guys can... You have an eight-month-old, they take up this much space. So if you can find a place that's a one bedroom in the baby's crib, or their stuff is in your room, or you put the baby in the living room, this is the time. We had a call her earlier. This is the time to do the sacrifice. The kids are young. You guys are young. You get in a one bedroom. You spend half the amount. You see what I'm saying? You go a little bit north. Maybe you have a little bit more of a commute, but it could be worth it to you. What work did you move to Miami to do?

So I'm active duty military. Okay.

Is there an allowance of some sort? I'm sorry. Do you get any allowance? Housing allowance or anything like that?

Yeah. So our BAH is 3,200, and our rent is 29 and some change. So within the BAH range, we're actually within the budget.

But- But is that part of the 6K, or is that in addition to?

That's part of the 6.

So it doesn't matter at that point. Yeah, you're underneath your housing allowance, but your overall monthly income, it's still more than 50. Therefore, yeah, what I said still rings true. So the key here is we got to cut the rent in half at the least.

Can you go live on base for a year?

We don't have I don't have that option on this base. Okay.

Yeah. And then what I am going to do, and I hate to say this, but yeah, I'm going to go down to the credit union. If your wife's credit is still good before you start missing payments, go down there and say, We need a loan for the difference here. We need a loan for $20,000. And what's better? The only thing better than paying off $50,000 is paying off $20,000. Okay? So instead of having a $50,000 loan, now you have a $20,000 loan. And now that frees up a couple more hundred bucks in your budget every single month. $900. Yeah. Do you see how that works?

Minus the $20,000. Jeez.

I see how that works.

Yeah. So that's what I want you to do, Ethan. None of this is going This is going to be pretty nor fun. Okay? This is going to be something that you're going to look back on 15 years from now and go, Oh, my gosh. Remember that apartment? Oh, my gosh. Remember when we got that loan? And by the way, get the loan for 25 so that you can have a little $5,000 car that you drive. That's the way this works.

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All right, back to the phone lines where we have Claire, who's in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Hi, Claire. How can we help today? Hello.

Yeah. I have a question about how to start a conversation with my family about some student loans. My mom helped me take out some parent plus loans. They are all under her name. I went to college, about $36,000 work with a verbal agreement from me that I would help her pay them back. But now that it is time for me to pay them back because I am out of college and they are coming due, she is requesting the $36,000 payment in full. But when I look back on my tuition bills, she received $17,000 in refunds that she never put back towards the loans. So I'm trying to figure out how to start that conversation of, I am not paying you $36,000 I am only going to pay the amount that I used rather than what was... Yeah. So I don't know. It's been interesting, and I don't know how to start that conversation.

Okay, so can we cut right to the chase here? Yeah. Man, I hate to say this. This one hurts to say. Your mom is deceiving you. She's lying to you.

Yeah.

And I just have a personal rule that if I'm dealing with somebody who lacks integrity, A, I'm going to make sure I don't lose my character in the process, and B, I'm going to be very clear about what I will and will not do, and I will see that through. Because trying to preserve the relationship, she's already burned it to the ground. She's trying to extort you for 17,000 more dollars.

Wild.

Yeah.

Right? That's madness. A parent of integrity. If I did this with my kid, I would say, Hey, dude, I actually spent 17 grand on my own. You owe me this much money.

It's a lot. It's not a number that you forgot. Like, Oh, I forgot I did that.

It's a lot of money. Honestly, I would print the bill out and go sit with her and say, This is what was paid for my bill. I don't know how much you ended up taking out or how much you had deposited into your accounts. Where's the other $17,000?

She did let me log into her parent plus loan portal so I can see how much she really did take out because for me and all of my sisters. But I had a feeling because then that would have made my schooling a total of $64,000 for three years, and I only went to a state school. So that price didn't really make sense. Plus, I was in state. So I did some research, and now I have to figure out how to have this conversation.

You got math on your side. You have bills and math on your side. I think it's a pretty straightforward conversation when it comes to what you owe. I think it's a harder conversation about what her choice to lie to you has done to your relationship.

I'm trying to find any reason this might be different. Is there any way that during that, did she buy you a car during that time?

She pay your car insurance and your food and rent?

So I lived at home. So No. There was one year I did move out. I lived off campus with some roommates, but I paid my rent. I also paid my cell phone bill to her. She did buy a meal plan for me.

You're breaking up on us, Claire.

Yeah, you're cutting out on us. Okay.

Oh, there you go. Now you're back. You lived at home, you paid rent, but there was one time when what?

She got a meal plan for me.

A meal plan?

Yeah. It was like $2,000. And I figured if It became a super big issue. I would offer to pay that back, too.

I'd add that. Listen, if meal plan is part of school. I might add that back in and say, Say that. Say, Hey, I looked it up. Here's what I found. Slider the paper like they do when they When you make a negotiation and say, Now, I do know that there was the one semester where you paid for my meal plan. I know that that was $2,000. I don't know if that's part of this. I don't see it. Try to have some goodwill there, I think, but I agree with what John said, man. This is dirty.

I hate I'm going to take this for you.

Yeah, I'm sorry.

I would commit walking in the door to what your boundaries are going to be on this one and play it as straight as possible. And the best you can, this is going to be hard because it's your freaking mom. It's your mother. But keep your wits about you and keep your integrity and keep your character. And don't yell, don't scream, don't make accusations. Just be very clear. And luckily for you, this is all tracked, right? You can see what she took out. You can actually probably go to the college and get the bill that was transferred the day bills were paid. You can do a little bit of forensic accounting here and figure out exactly what she paid and exactly what she kept for herself. Wow.

Shouldn't have to be like Jade, I heard this over and over and over again, working with college students. I feel like we are in the era of the parent plus loan. I feel like we are getting so many calls about that. I don't know if it just happened in that decade.

It's not the era, it's the bills are coming due for that era.

Oh, my gosh. And I just... Yeah. I mean, obviously, if you sign a parent plus loan, the parent is the one on the loan. And usually what's gone awry here is there is some verbal agreement. Either you will pay or you won't pay. And then the time passes and inevitably, someone forgot.

Either someone forgot or-They change it. If you're in a position where you need to borrow a ton of... So much money that you need to get a full Stafford loan and get a parent plus loan, then you're in a financial situation that's already challenging. And when they write you a blank check and they're like, Hey, we're going to send you 20, and the bill is only 15, it takes another level of integrity, another level of discipline to not spend that five. Oh, yeah. Because it feels like it just got free to deposit it. That's a problem for future us. We'll deal with it later. And my daughter is going to be rich one day. She can cover it. And that's not the agreement we made.

It's not.

Plus, it's a fraudulent use of student loan money, to be honest with you. But it is what it is. 100 % it is. Yes. But, Jade, I cannot tell you how often I heard this story from college students. Parents would take out loans in their children's name and use that money to pay for stuff around the house or whatever. And it just became an off-book stimulus program in a way.

Yeah, because you get the amount of money needed that's allotted to you for the semester. I don't know, I'm making this up. Say you get $7,000, but you only needed $5,000. The, quote, refund, $2,000 just sitting there. It's like, well, I may as well take it. It's real hard to not- Man. Not spend that money back. What's the moral of the story, children? To check your bill and make sure that your parents aren't jacking you?

I think any time you go into an agreement with somebody you care about and there is financial borrowing in between you two, just expect that that relationship is going to get sideways at some point.

It's going to. And the best thing you can do If you are listening and you're like, Oh, crap, I think I have parent plus loans, and I think that this could end up being me, try to jump on... Don't wait. Talk to that person today and say, What's the deal with this? If you're thinking about taking out those types of loans, of course, I'm going to tell you, don't do it. Please just stop in the name of love. I know it's a tough conversation because let's take a minute and talk about this. College is expensive. It's filled with expectations. On the student end and the parent end. How many parents get so much pride over saying which school- My kid goes to this school.

Yes.

Then there's the student who is probably in one of the most emotional periods of their life making this decision. It's This is where all my friends are going. And don't you want me to have this college experience?

College has tuned the sales cycle to a 17, 18-year-old's feelings. You hear college students say, This was the one.

What? Right. They're choosing their- And their parents are like, All right, well, I got to mortgage my soul because they found the one. It's madness. It's madness. It's madness. And then there's the element of, I guess I'm going to call it some shame, because what we're finding is a lot of parents are taking out parent plus loans and not telling the student that they did it, not telling them that that's the way that this whole thing is being funded. And then it comes back to bite in the butt later. So guys, our teaching on this is so solid and so clear. If you can go to college, pay cash, okay? And I know that that sounds what, Jade, you've lost your mind. No, the way to do it is you have to start talking about it before you're 17. You have to start talking about it very, very early, setting that expectation. Yes, you're going to school if it suits you, because maybe college life doesn't even suit you for the career that you want. That's another conversation. But make sure it's said, Hey, you don't have a college fund. We may not have a 529.

We expect you to work part-time, or we expect that you'll go to a community college. Whatever that is, parents, please have that conversation. There's no shame in that game. It is a privilege if you are able to pay for Kids College, and it is a privilege for both the parent and the student. If you're looking for a more budget friendly way to save on medical costs and stay true to your values, Christian Health Care Ministries is a great option to think about.

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One of our favorite things is when people share their stories of how they're winning. And we just got this amazing review from our EveryDollar app. This is what they said. They said, I love this app. It makes it super easy to budget with my husband. We've implemented this practice since our wedding day, and we've had zero money fights because there is full transparency and we're on the same page. That's what I would call a win. Hey, guys, you can do this, too. You can take control of your money. You can change your family tree, and you can live like no one else. Go download our EveryDollar budget app, faux free in the App Store or Google Play. Love to hear it. All right, we've got John in Philadelphia Pennsylvania. What's up, John?

Hey, how are you guys doing?

What's up, brother? Doing great.

Hey, I was about a month ago or three weeks ago, I was an unfortunate victim of a crime that has totaled my wife's car.

Oh.

Yeah. What happened? It was unfortunate. Wrong place, wrong time. And my question for you is, we were about to start Baby Step 6, and now we're looking at options for a new car. Insurance is to give me about $25,000 for the car that was totaled. My question to you is, is this an emergency fund situation where if we have some emergency fund build up, we could put some of that toward a new car, or does that not fall into the bucket of emergency fund uses?

Well, what was your wife's car worth? Usually, they'll give you the value.

They did. It was worth 25K.

So why wouldn't you not just use the 25? It was an older model SUV. Why wouldn't you just use the 25,000 to buy a $25,000 car and move on and continue with Baby Step 6?

Well, I figured that's what you were going to say. The whole thing has been very emotional for us, and my wife really loved her car. And so we're dealing with this. I could certainly go get a minivan for a six-person family for $25,000 easily, but it's not necessarily what she wants to drive. And I know that's probably not what you guys want to hear. What happened? But it's just been... So she was going on a retreat with some of her work ladies. The night before, she said, Hey, could you go fill up my car with gas? Would you mind? I said, Absolutely not. And while I was out, I decided I was going to get her a car wash as well. And after car wash, I got held up at gunpoint for the car. Oh.

Wow. They took off. Did they wreck it or something?

Yeah. I won't bore you with all the details, but it is completely totaled.

Man, I'm sorry, dude. That's terrifying.

That's dramatic.

Yeah, it was. But We're working through it, and God is good, and there's a plan on all of this. I'm just trying to make the best decision moving forward.

If we were sitting together and we had an hour just to hang out and have some nachos, I would say this a lot kinder, and I would take a lot longer to say this, okay? So it's going to sound pretty abrupt. Is that fair?

No, that's fair.

All right. This is one of those moments where the line, not by your hand, but in your lap, really rings true. You, trying to be a good husband, ended up in a wrong place, wrong time, and somebody truly victimized you and your family.

Sure.

And you have a mathematical reality to deal with today.

Yeah.

It's your emergency fund, right? I mean, it is what it is. What I don't want you to do is to say, Hey, this bad thing happened to us. And since we really want something else, this is our pass to get the thing we really want. Because what you're going to find is that momentary, Hooray, I got this awesome car, is going to come at the expense of, well, now we got to stop everything and build up our emergency fund, or we're going to have to make a car payment, and you're going to find yourself lower than you were before.

Yeah.

It's going to feel like a short- It seems like the only way there is backward.

And that's not what we want to do. We don't want another car payment. I think I'm trying to make the situation easier than it is, probably.

No, I think you're continuing to try to be a noble and good husband and a good man, and try to take away that terrifying reality from your wife, that sometimes awful things happen. Yeah. And doing an emotional thing next, which is, I'll go buy you whatever car you want. It's going to be awesome. And we're going to try to smooth over this pain with a not really wise purchase on a depreciating asset, isn't the path forward, right? Really grieving this moment is the path forward. Going slow is the path forward. Yeah, I agree. How much money do you make a year, brother?

Between the two of us, we're around 250.

Okay. In all reality, and this is going to sound nutty, but if you just held off, could you all one car for a month and just squirrel away everything you got?

Well, it is a good question. Probably not. We have four little kids, so we're somewhere between dropping them at school. And my wife works a few days a week, and I work every day of the week. And so it's just the reality is It's just the reality has been a little bit challenging the last three weeks. We've actually been borrowing a car that my dad has available because my mom actually recently passed away. There's just all sorts of stuff going on.

Yeah, it sounds like a whole lot of going on. My recommendation to everybody, when a lot of life is happening at the same time, is to make as few big decisions as possible until the smoke clears. If you could just look at your wife and say, Hey, we're going to white-knuckle this thing for 60 days. 6-0. That's it. Two months, and we're going to drive this borrowed car, and we're going to save up another 10 or 15 grand, and then we're going to go get whatever car you want. Man, that's going to feel totally different.

Yeah, I agree. Maybe more fulfilling eventually.

I promise I'm not sure what issue it will be, but it will be super painful right now. It'll feel like just getting kicked again while you're down, right? Yeah. How much is in your emergency fund?

Oh, about 30,000.

Okay.

Yeah. I think you're going to... I mean, how much would you pull out of there?

I don't know. Excuse me. Anything similar to what we had is probably going to be after tax rent around 50,000. Would be my guess.

Well, the car she was driving, how old was it? Because it wasn't worth 50K at the time of the accident.

No, it was 2016, but I have very low miles on it. This won't surprise you, but I put new tires on it two days prior.

Of course you did. Yeah. Again, you're a good husband trying to take care of your family.

I mean, can you afford on your salary to have a $50,000 car, yes, you can. Do you have the cash today to have a $50,000 car? Not unless you have another stash of liquid cash somewhere aside from your emergency fund. I think that you would feel if you took your $30,000 emergency fund down to even 10 to do this, I think that would make you feel... I don't think you would like the way that felt at night.

Yeah, I agree. Not with four little kids.

Yeah. Even if you took it in half and brought it down to 15, I still don't. I mean, I could be wrong, John, but I don't think you would like the way that feels.

Yeah. I mean, we really like not having that.

Exactly.

It's hard to go backward, which is why it's such a commender in my mind.

Well, here's the Here's the thing. If you buy something quite used for $25,000 and you get something quite nice but quite used, the vehicle has really already taken the hit. In six months or in eight months, when you've saved up some more, you could sell that vehicle really for probably what you paid for it and put another 10 or 15 with it and get what you really want. You could do that.

Yeah, I agree.

Can I give you a psychological trick? Whenever something happens to us like this, we feel like someone, whether it's the Cosmos, whether it's the Thief, whether it's the whatever, somebody owes us. And that might be right in this justice sense, But it's not true in stone cold feet on the concrete reality. And so the more you live in this, that's not fair. I don't like this. This shouldn't be this way. The more you're divorcing yourself from the reality in front of you. The other thing I want you to imagine, if this is the first big thing like this that would happen in your life, this sounds harsh to say, but the world you had, I would even go as far as to say, the marriage you had is over now. You all are living in a post, somebody put a gun to your head and stole your car reality. And so saying, Okay, we're now moving forward. What do we want this world to look like? Do we want to backwards financially? Do we want to live in debt? Do we want to really grieve what happened and recognize we need to keep our head on a swivel?

Life's a little bit different now, and we're going to make the next right move with the $25,000 we got. Stop trying to say it used to be, or we just want to get back to, or it's not fair. Man, the path forward is, this happened. What are we going to do next? What's the next right move for us?

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Today's question comes from Elise in New Jersey. Elyce writes, My partner and I have a blended family, including four children. When we discussed buying our home, we agreed that we would put both of our names on the title and mortgage. Bills are split between us. Bills Hills are split between us with him paying more. After we moved in together, I found out that he has wealth that he had not disclosed to me. He was awarded a million dollars from a lawsuit. He draws on his disability, doesn't work, and makes more money than I do. I wake up before dawn, go to work, and take care of 90 % of the housework and kids' responsibilities. I'm livid finding out that he has such a large sum while I'm living paycheck to paycheck. He buys himself $5,000 gifts whenever he wants and tells me like it's nothing. Should I let my anger go or let my partner go?

Child, that's wild.

John. Listen, every once in a while, I ask myself, How long is this job going to last? And then I read this and I'm like, We are going to be employed forever.

Man, this is... Okay. Yeah. So she says, quote, she says, She says, I'm livid. While I'm living paycheck to paycheck, he buys this. So I don't think she's mad. It's almost like, let's be clear about what the problem is. The problem is not that he's spending some of the money. The problem is not that he's telling you that he's spending the money. The problem is that he lied and never told you this money was there to begin with.

He's deceitful. He lied to her. He rubs her nose in it, and he's not a participant in the lifeblood of that home.

Not at all. And I, for for one. I mean, progress is possible, John. Everybody can change like Rocky Balboa said. But for right now, I'd be like, Oh, my gosh, I'm dodging a bullet. By finding this out while we're still engaged, they're still engaged, right?

It doesn't even say. It just says her and her partner. So I'm assuming they're not married. Otherwise, I hope they would have put spouse. But they did buy a house together.

They blended their kids.

So Elyce, yes. Oh, Lordy, Lordy, Lordy. I think you have dodged a bullet like the matrix.

Yeah. Should I let my anger go or let my partner go is the ending question.

I rarely say this, this directly, but I think this is one that I say, Bye, Felicia. I'm out.

' I would. I mean, If you wanted to, it's easy for us to say on this, and if you wanted to go further in on this and be like, Listen, this is so not okay with me. The only way that we can go forward is to have some intense, intense, some type of counseling to try to repair this.

Sure. The relationship you thought you had is over.

It's not even the same person.

It's squared out, right? So now it is, do I want to rebuild a life with a person? And what would that look like? And I'm going to give him a path back to re earning trust. And it would be from, not re earning because he never had it. It's going to start from square one. We got to tell the truth with each other. We have to support each other. We're not going to Venmo each other for light bills and water bills. Our money is going to go in one pot and we are going to pay our bills.

This is madness. It's madness. But it's madness. But and, Elyce, I'm pivoting from you, but going to a larger conversation here. Here's the problem with this whole deal, because Elyce, you're not the first one who's called in with a situation where the story changed. I was with this person. Once we made this leap over here, now I'm seeing the real them. Here's what happens. And, John, this is really your avenue. So I'm about to I'll give you the assist here, and I want you to, Ali, you break the backboard. The problem when you enter into a relationship and there's no real commitment and you say, okay, to everything. Okay, you want to combine our families and We're not married. Okay. You want to have sex and we're not married? Okay. You want to move in and we're not married? Okay. You want to move in and we're not married? Okay.

You want to buy a house together.

You want to buy a house together and we're not married? Okay. Do you want to keep our money separate even though the rest of our life is fully together? Okay. In many ways, you are setting yourself up to be a sitting duck for this thing because this person can say, Hey, we never actually committed. There was never actually a thing where I said all in. Therefore, why do I have to?

Well, let's go even further. This guy would say, Hey, as she wrote, we agreed.

We agreed exactly.

I'm doing exactly what we agreed to.

Exactly. And is it nefarious? Sounds like it is. Yeah, he's a scumbag. Is it scummy?

He's doing exactly what you all agreed to.

Right. And That's the thing. That's why the rules... There's a reason that there's order to things, because when there's order to things, it helps things be in order.

Well, and it helps darkness come to light. It helps a conversation. I'm not moving in with you until we're married. I'm not going to buy a home with you until both of us are sitting with a mortgage lender and both of us have financial lives laid out in front of both of us until we both commit to... Outside of those, you just leave pockets of secrets, even the ability to have secrets, right? Yes.

So the moral is, and this is not just to women, this is to men, require commitment. Require it. You're not going to just give people access to these major, meaningful parts of your life that have the ability to really screw you if they mess with you. Don't do it unless you're getting full commitment. Require it. My pastor used to say this, we talk about commitment, and it's really an all or nothing deal. That is what it is. You're in, you fully commit, you're locked in. And What's not okay, it's never okay for somebody to say, Yes, I'm committed to you, but on Sunday I do my thing. On Sunday I go out, that's my day. Everything but that, right? It's the same thing with marriage. You can't be like, Hey, I'm committed to We can put our kids together. We can buy a house together. But when it comes to my money, that's the day I do my thing. Do you see what I'm saying? Yes. Require it. You're worth that. Somebody should say, I commit to you and I will take everything and I will show you my everything. That is the best part of marriage is having full transparency.

And if somebody's not willing to give you that, cut them loose.

Yes. Amen and amen. It's It's amazing. This is coming up. I was just reading a pre-copy of my friend, Shon Johnson, and her husband, Andrew East, wrote a book on this commitment. She's an Olympic athlete. He's a pro football player. And the whole premise of the book is so powerful. And that is we've lied to ourselves and told us, our culture has told us, that you always have to leave doors open. You always have to keep your options open. You always have to keep an exit strategy. You always have to... Everything is always on the table for negotiation. Negotiation. And what both of them, this book is so powerful. Actually, freedom is not an endless choices and endless opportunities. That's a recipe for anxiety and chaos and being paralyzed. There's tons of psychological research I'm not going to finish about that. The power, the freedom you're chasing is actually in going all in and going through the difficult conversations, through the difficult negotiations. I want to stay up late, I don't want to go to bed early. I want to keep my money. Well, I don't feel safe. Going Coming through that and coming out on the other side, anchored into something bigger than yourself.

That is where we all want to be. We're all just chasing this lie of, Man, you always got to have a crack in the door because you never know. You got to keep what's yours and don't let them have everything. And what that does is it keeps you from ever having anything. Wow.

That's something to think about. There's a lot in that. But what you said reminded me of... It's like, part of this is when you to say okay to less than what you were saying, you're avoiding the conflict of it.

You're avoiding the conflict, and you're making a statement about your own perceived value of your worth.

Yes. But going back... Yes. And going back to the conflict part, I read a long time ago, I can't remember what it was, but it was talking about how our greatest relationships, when you see it as concentric circles and they go out, out, out. The core of our relationships, the ones that are in the very middle, that's our husband, maybe your best friend, those are the people who are willing to enter into real conflict and come out on the other side.

Because conflict is connection if you both are anchored to the same thing. Yes.

That's why there's concentric circles, because the wider out you get, those are the people who aren't willing to engage in conflict. So when you make a commitment, you're saying, And I'm willing to go through these conflicts to get to the other side and be there with you.

Yes, because being celebrated and challenged matters.

It matters. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show here in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm here with Dr. John Deloney. We're still taking calls about your life and money, so call in, 888-825-5225. Jennifer from Detroit, Michigan, is on the line with us. Hey, Jennifer, what's up?

Hi, thank you for taking my call.

Yeah. How can we help?

So my 23-year-old son will be graduating from the University of Michigan in May, and he has racked up 96,000 dollars in student debt. He did have a scholarship that he lost in his freshman year, and I've done everything I could to help him apply for scholarships, get him to sit down and get some type of money other than student loans, and he didn't want to participate. Now, my dilemma is, he's 23 years old. He just got a full-time job in supply chain management. He's going to be making about 70, 72, maybe 75,000, depending on overtime. But he also went out, and against mom's advice, went out and got a brand new pickup truck at $400 a month, plus Insurance.

Four hundred dollars a month?

Yes. So do I charge him rent, living in my house for the next year is what he's predicting, or what I would charge him in rent, do I make him pay towards his student debt?

What's the purpose? I want to know your heart behind this. Is the rent as some retribution or some punishment, or is it No, no, no.

I don't want to enable bad behaviors. I've been hearing people say, Oh, if your kid's going to be living at home, they should contribute to the household.

Why is he living at home?

He's not ready to move out yet.

What does that mean? He's graduated.

Right. He doesn't want to move out yet for another year. His girlfriend is going to be... She went into graduate school. She'll be graduating here.

So it's my guess. What's that got to do with anything?

I know. I don't know how to have that conversation with him.

I don't think... I'm just going to be straight up with you. It sounds like you've been displeased with some of his choices. That's fine. Despite good advice being sent his way, that's fine. I fear that because of that, this is just one of the fears on my list. I fear that because of that, if he moves in, you You're going to find yourself meddling because you already know, Well, he did this. He shouldn't have done that. And then, He did this. He shouldn't have done that. And I think that that's going to be not good for neither you nor him. That's just not going to be good. Second, he makes $70,000 a year. Move out. Move out.

Here's what he needs. He needs a sturdy mom.

Mm-hmm.

Not a rigid mom, but not an overly flexible one either. Right. And so whether you charge him rent or if you just say, Okay, for one year, here's the deal. You are his new landlord, and you get to determine any and all stipulations for living in your house. Let me say it clearly. He doesn't get a vote.

Okay.

You get the vote, and then he gets to make a grown-up choice. If a company is going to trust him with $75,000 worth of his skillset, and he doesn't have any wisdom yet, he's only 23, but with his judgment, then he has enough judgment to make his own grown man decision on whether he's going to follow mom's rules. And that might be, I'm going to let you live rent-free for six months or for one year, but my expectation is you put this much money a month towards your student loans And your student loans is this dollar amount when you leave. And every month that you don't send it in, you get one and done and you're out. You're evicted.

Here's the only thing... Okay, I'm on it. Or you're charging rent, right? The only thing I don't like about it, I think it's... The only thing that I don't want to say don't like. The only thing that bothers me about it is you're still telling him what to do, which in your house, you have the ability to do that.

To your point- He's opting into it at this point, though.

He would be opting into it. But I feel like a guy like this, he doesn't He doesn't need mom to tell him what to do. He needs to go out in the world and learn.

That mom was right all along.

That mom was right all along, and it hurts to have $96,000, and you shouldn't have taken out a truck payment. I feel like if he's still there, he's going to keep the car. He's not going to sell it. He's going to move very sheepishly on these loans. That's my only concern.

Oh, I've got 50 concerns. The fact that you told us he's not ready to move out yet, and you're letting that be a reason why he's going to move in? That in and of itself is a challenge.

No, I don't have a problem, and I would love to be able to have him move out. My mom has a house that she had to move out of in the system living that's sitting empty, and we've offered for him to make the rent payments and put it into escrow. And when she sells the house, he gets that money back. He refuses to do that. So I don't know how to have a conversation.

When you say refuse, what does that look like? No.

What does that mean? He doesn't want to. He goes, I'm not ready. I don't want to take care of the yard. I don't want to take care of the house. It's in the neighborhood.

Wait, he's allowed to do that. But that doesn't mean he automatically gets to then move in with you. Both things can be true. Well, you're not living here.

When he says he's not ready to even... Okay, so take grandma's house off the table. When you say, Hey, son, Just go on and get an apartment. And he says he's not ready. What does that mean?

He doesn't want to go out. He doesn't want to live on his own. He doesn't have any buddies close enough to him that he'd want to have a roommate.

Yeah, but he does want to make $100,000 worth of financial decisions and not study or get in trouble with the school and lose your scholarship. He does want to make big boy decisions when it comes to just walking out and buying a truck he can't afford.

And Exactly. And it's very... There's nothing that you can say concrete that says, But I will be in one year, right? What will happen that will cause you to be ready in one year. Do you see what I'm saying? What can he point back to? What are the steps that will be taken that will let me know that, I don't know, just emotionally or socially, you'll be ready to do that in one year, even?

Our friend Henry Cloud says this, Often, one of the greatest gifts we give our adult children, and this is so hard, one of the greatest gifts we can give them is the consequences of their own problems. And my guess is, you've been bailing him out for most of his life. And there will come a day when the bailout stops, the sooner and the more preserved you all's relationship is, the better.

Yeah. Okay. And the good news is, here's the thing, Jennifer, it's not like you're saying, and the door is locked and you can never... He can come over for dinner, I'm sure, as much as he wants. He can come over and watch the game. He can come over and you can- Do his laundry at your house.

Yes. But he's going to throw a grown-up temper tantrum. It's not fair. I can't believe you're doing this to me. All that stuff. He's going to throw an age-appropriate temper tantrum that we should have held these boundaries back when he was 12, back when he was 15. Now he's 23. Three. So we're going to have to weather that storm, but we're going to stay sturdy in that storm and stick to our guns on that. What's the greatest thing for 30-year-old him, 28-year-old him? It's some really firm boundaries from mom about what she will and will not accept.

Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions. Com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions. Com.

So here's the deal, guys. We wish we could get to every call and question on the show, but that's just not possible. So if you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head over to our website and use the Ask Ramsey, okay? Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. You'll get an answer the same way that we'd answer it right here on the show. Ask your question today at ramsey solutions. Com or click... I'm sorry. Or if you're watching on YouTube or listening to the podcast, just click the link in the description. All right, all right. All right. Going over to Timothée, who's in Albany, New York. Timothée, how can we help today?

Hi, guys. How's it going? Doing good. I was just curious. So I'm 25 years old. I'm married. I have a two-year-old, and I have about $5,000 to my name, and I'm expecting $11,000 tax return because of extra withholdings from last year. The only debt that I have, we rent and stuff, and we have cars that we paid cash for. The only debt I have is my wife's student loans, which are around $12,000. So I'm curious, and I can tell you the interest rates on each one of her loans, if you'd like. But I'm curious if I should take this $11,000 that I'm getting from the tax return and pay off the majority of that debt and be left a very minimal, what do you call it, backup fund, emergency fund. Or if I should put that into a savings account or something, maybe a CD that gets 3 % or something high and have it just counteract the interest while I'm paying it off. It's very low payment monthly.

I liked your first idea. 11,000 is the refund amount? Yeah. And 12,000 is the student loans amount? Yeah. And then you have... Did you say you had 5,000 in cash somewhere?

Yes.

I would pay off... As soon as you get that refund, I'd pay off the entire balance of the student loans, and I'd use $1,000 from your savings.

Bro, you're about to be free.

That's awesome.

Free.

So you think... Yeah, but it's just a scary place being the only person that makes income.

It's scary to be debt-free?

I want to be debt-free.

I've never heard anyone say it's scary to be debt-free. This is a risk placement. It's where you're placing your risk, and it happens all the time. So you're not different than a lot of folks that call in. When you're talking about fear, It's like, Oh, I'm really scared that something will happen, right? And what could be the worst thing that happens? You lose your job in this situation?

Yeah.

Okay. So you lose your job. Let's just play it out. You lose your job, and instead of using the tax refund, just before you lost your job, you put the tax refund over in savings. And so now you've got $16,000 in savings, still got the $12,000 student loan, and now you've lost your job. First thing is like, Okay, I've lost my job. I'm only going to pay for the most important things. So now you're trying to scrimp on things and you're like, Maybe I won't pay the student loan. And now suddenly that student loan payment is even more punishing to you because you're like, I'm having to take money that I don't have, and I'm having to pay that bill every single month. That is stressful. Whereas if you say, Hey, if I lower my expense it takes to live by paying off my debt and I have some money saved, If I lose some money, if the worst happens and I lose my job, it costs hardly anything to even operate my life because I have no debt. I don't have to worry about bill collectors calling me. Nobody can take anything from me.

Nobody can come after me because I don't have any debt. The good news is, let's pretend you had a couple of months. How quickly could you save back up the $5,000 that you had? You're going from four to five, or from five to four, I should say. How quickly could you put another $1,000 there?

Oh, a thousand? I'm not sure. My wife and I have just started our super budgeting. I've been doing most of the finances since we got married.

Surely you could do it quickly without a student loan payment. And without any other debt.

I don't think we're even paying on it right now.

Okay, then that means that we're not paying.

So it's just growing on you like a cancer.

What do you make every month?

I make around 5,000. My wife makes 200 bucks.

Okay. Stay calm. So with no debt, you think in two months, you can muster up 500 bucks this month and 500 bucks next month somehow by cutting back? Yeah, probably. I think you could. You'd have to cut back a little bit, but I think you could do that. And then you're right back, savings-wise, you're right back where you were, and you have no debt.

And can we call out one other thing? Have you gone to fix your withholding?

I just got a new job a couple of months ago, and I'm not withholding this year. I just got a job right at the start of this year, but last year I was withholding.

So if you think about it, this isn't new money. The government just took about a thousand bucks a month from you and held it for you, interest-free. That's right. And then they gave it back to you. So if you'd been making that thousand bucks a month, I mean, closer to $900 a month all year, this student loan would have been paid down- I'm going to make another 10 grand this year. Yeah. And so you're going to get what is the equivalent of a thousand dollar a month raise.

That you should have had all along.

Yeah, it was your money all along. And so dude- I know.

That is a good point. Being 25 years old paying for everything is stressful. I just about turned 26 So I'm off my parents health insurance. Oh, man. So that's $150 a week.

Yeah. Okay, but can I do something that doesn't get done enough? Can I celebrate you, man? Because I hear a ton of young men just opting out completely of responsibility, of fear, of things that don't have certain outcomes. They're just quitting. And you looked and said, you know what? I'm going to go in. I'm going to commit all in with one person. I'm going to get married. We're going to go do another terrifying thing. We're going to combine our finances. We're going to do another terrifying thing. We're going to make a human, maybe even more. Dude, I want to celebrate you because what you're going to find on the other end of this responsibility is purpose and deep, deep value and more joy. More fear, yes, but more joy than you could have ever imagined on the other side. So I applaud you, brother, for going in at 25. And you're feeling the weight of that squabar, dude, of taking care of a family. That's where you get stronger. That's where all the good stuff in your life is going to come from. And I'm proud of you, brother.

Appreciate it. To hear the Lord as the beginning of wisdom.

Listen, choose freedom. Don't chase interest rates. Choose who's as for me and my household, nobody will ever own us. And that just means I'm not going to borrow money.

You're a slave to the lender, right?

That's exactly right. I'm opting in. I appreciate it, guys. I'm proud of you, man. Call us back into your debt-free scream, man. We're proud of you.

I love that. That was so nice, John. Men don't say nice things to other men enough.

I've got to change that. Most of the guys in my life, the way we tell each other that we love each other is by making fun of each other. That's funny, and that's 99% of my communication with my friends. But it's one of the things I want to make different this year is if I see a man out in the wild, trying to make a difference in his home, in his family tree, in his community, It's a big deal. I'm going to call it out because we need more men seeing each other and saying, Okay, I've got another brother in arms on this one.

Yeah. And listen, the ladies, we can help with that, too, huh?

I mean, yeah.

I've seen you write this on social media, and I think it's a great post. So I'm going to say it the wrong way. But I saw you post one time about, Grab your husband and grab his face and just look at him and say, I'm proud of you. Thank you. You're working hard, and I see that.

You want to melt the man in your life?

I'm going to do it tonight.

Grab your husband by the face and look him in the eye and put your forehead on his forehead and just say, I'm so grateful for you. I'm proud of you. Shoot.

All right, Sam Warshall. Get ready.

That'll end him. That will end him. I can see it. The most common thing I hear from men behind closed doors is two things. One, I don't know why my wife doesn't like me.

Oh, no.

And often when they ask that, I can say, Well, it's these 14 things, right? But The other thing is, they tell me in private, I wish she could just understand that I do all of this for her. It's an audience of one. And here's the deal. We go where we're celebrated. And if you're not your spouse's biggest cheerleader, somebody else or some other thing will be. And so however hard it is, however difficult it is, man, if you're married to a good one, man or a woman-Let them know. Let them know and celebrate them. It means the world.

It does. All right, Sam Warshaw, you already know. You already know.

If you've been working the plan, paying off debt, saving, and changing your family tree, I'm proud of you. If you're in Baby Step 4 or beyond, it's time to celebrate. The Live Like No One Else Cruise is back March 14 through 21, Join the Ramsey personalities and me as we sail to Half Moon Key, Cozimel, Jamaica, and Grand Cayman on the ultimate debt-free vacation. Cabins will sell out just like last time. Lock in yours with a $600 deposit at ramsey solutions. Com/events.

Payton in Lubbock, Texas, is on the line. Hi, Payton.

Hi.

What's up, dude?

I've been a long time listening. I'm nervous to be on the line with you guys because I feel like I already know what you're going to say.

We'll be gentle.

Awesome. You get to pick the heat factor. We can bring it in gentle at a one or a two, or we can bring it at a nine 10. You let us know.

Let's go with an eight. All right.

Buckle up.

Okay. So a loaded question today, and it goes back. I started listening to the Ramsey show in 2020. When I was incarcerated and when I got out, I started doing things the right way. And then I lost my job and fell back into debt and found another job, but it didn't pan out. Fast forward four failed jobs later, and I get hit by a train. This was this past June.

You got hit by a train?

Holy moly.

Yes, sir. Bro, your life is a love it country song, man.

So I'm used to doing mostly manual labor in my life. I recently got married, so that's a plus. My wife and I combine finances, and I'm going through all of our debts the other day, and I'm realizing that we're $100,000 in debt, and I can't work yet. And so I started looking for a a hard time job recently. She only makes 12. 50 an hour, so she doesn't really make a whole lot as far as income. She's had a really hard time keeping a steady job. And for the last four years, and I just don't know what to do. I don't know where to turn. I'm at a loss. I've called my way out of debt three times in my life, and I'm beside myself right now. On top of that, I have a $750 a month child support obligation that I am unable to pay. So my kids are going without, and I'm just beside myself.

Hey, brother, I want to applaud you for calling, man. This is a hard phone call, isn't it?

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm grateful that you called.

So some of the debts are, she's got $5,000, almost $6,000 in student loans. They have been deferred until this year, and so now she's having to start paying on those.

Okay.

And because I've been in and out of work for about two years now, I've already got back child support bets.

How much?

I've got about $10,000 on one kid and about $5,000 on the other.

Let me ask you, dude, the way you're telling us your story, you fell into debt. You got The jobs went away. If you were to look in the mirror and take full ownership here, why do you keep getting late off of work? Are you not showing up on time? There's construction going. I was just in Lubbock a couple of weeks ago. There's construction projects all over the place.

So I recently moved to Texas. Okay. I got hit by the train. My wife is from a little small town outside of Lubbock, and so When I got hit by the train, she was already here. I just moved in with her.

Okay. What's your medical status? When are you going to be able to get back after it? There's so much opportunity for those who will pick up a shovel and get after it in Lubbock, Texas.

Well, like I said, I'm already looking for a part-time position. Well, abilities. I have a fused elbow, and so Shoveling is not exactly- Yeah, that's really challenging.

Yeah.

When that happened, I don't know any other way to say it, so I don't want it to sound rude, but were you at fault, or was there a fault? Is Is there anything that's going to come up with this?

No, I was definitely at fault for the train accident. I found myself making $50 a week at the sales position. It was a traveling door-to-door sales position where they promised the world and never deliver. So I was making $50 a week and barely able to have food. She was working the same job with me, and she couldn't make it either. So she decided to go home. And I had seen what happens when people leave the company when they don't have anything. So I wasn't about to get dropped off at a bus station It was nothing. And so- Did you try to jump a train? I tried to jump a train home, and it didn't work. It was going faster than I thought, and it caught me.

So let me ask you this, are you ready to change everything Anything?

Absolutely. If you only knew, my friend. Okay.

All right. So here's my call out. Number one, when you get off this call, I want you to call over to Family Counseling Services. I think they're off Avenue Q, over there in Lubbit. Okay? Okay. And they have sliding scale, and they support folks who are struggling financially. But you got to get in and sit with somebody. Okay? You got a lot of demons in your back, right?

Yeah.

Okay. Number two, you can't look for a part-time job. You've got to make it your life's mission to get two jobs by the end of this week. And I'm putting that pressure on you because I think you can. And they're not going to be fun, and you're going to be exhausted, and you're going to be sore. But I want you to commit to it. Because what you need right now, more than anything, is a bunch of little wins And these debt collectors can ask all day long, But, bro, you got kids, and I want to get those guys squared up. And you do, too. I can hear your voice, right? Yeah. All right. So let the bill collectors keep calling you for a minute. You don't have anything anyway. And your wife has got to either get the help she needs or she's got to make a commitment, I'm going to go get a second job. I can't just put her by on 12: 50 an hour.

She's actually about to get a $9 an hour, well, 8: 50 an hour raise.

Awesome.

Yeah, as soon as she gets this test done.

Okay, listen to me. Jade and I are going to give you and her, the premium every dollar app. Because you know as well as I do- We already have the premium every dollar app because we're in Financial Peace University currently through our church. Good. Sweet. Good.

All right.

The worst thing that can happen is you all get an eight dollar an hour raise or a nine dollar raise, and you don't budget it because it will disappear faster than you get it, right?

Right.

So we're going to be militant in our discipline when it comes to our spending and our budgeting. And we're going to have to go for walks. We're going to have to go over there to Severe Park and go for walks together. We're going to have to get, I don't know, a soccer ball and kick it. We're going to have to do stuff that didn't cost any money because that's where we are right now.

Right.

And if you'll go get a job, you'll get two jobs, and you commit to a year of being uncomfortable. You're already uncomfortable, commit to being uncomfortable in a direction that's going to change your life.

Right.

You hear what I'm saying? Yeah. Go sit down with the counselor over there who will work with you and say, I'm ready to change some of the stuff I've been... Put, sit down some of that crap I've been carrying for all these years. You hear what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

We both think you can do it, man. Also, you know what? Hang on the line. We're going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's Find the Work You're Wired to Do. I want you to take the career assessment inside of it. It's incredibly insightful. And begin to ask yourself, not just after a year of survival jobs, what do I actually want to do? What can I do in this local community here in this great city of Lubyck, Texas? What can I do that's going to contribute to this city, to the people who've been who are where I used to be. And now you're talking about changing everything in your life. But you need some little wins, brother. Hang on the line. We'll get choked up with some resources. We're your number one and two fan.

Hey, guys. What's up? It's Jade, and I'm pumped for the new year, and I hope you are, too. But the problem And the problem is, most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is. I'm going to save money, or I'm going to get my financial act together. But without a plan, you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself. I want you to win. Our EveryDollar app is the game changer you need. In 15 minutes, EveryDollar helps you build a plan based on where you're at with money right now. And every day, the app coaches you with ways to find extra money so So you can beat debt and build wealth faster. It's like having me in your pocket, helping you stay on track all year long. So don't just wish your money works out. You can be the one to actually make it happen this year. Download the EveryDollar budget app and get started right now for free. The Ramsey shows scripture in quote of the day, 2 Corinthians 9: 10, Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness.

Thomas Sowell, is that right? Sowell said this, It's okay to have your eggs in one basket as long as you control what happens to that basket. All right. I'm with you, Thomas. I'm with you. All right. Anna is in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hi, Anna. How Can we help today?

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. You bet. I guess I'll just get straight to the point, and if you need more details, just let me know. So my question is, how do I buy a house with my fiancé when I do not have a credit score or recent rent or loan history?

Why don't you have any of that? How were you living before?

I am a long-term Ramsey listener back in 2023, I paid off all of my student loan debt of $49,000. So after that, I was living with my parents for a little bit, and now my fiancé and I are getting married this August. So I've never had a rent payment. And yeah, my student loan history is like the loan providers say that it's too long ago to count for anything.

So it's hard to get approved. Okay. What about your fiancé who will be your husband? What's scenario? Because if you guys buy this house, it'll be together, no?

Correct. Yes, correct. What's his situation? So he actually has... What's his situation? He's debt-free, too. But he has had a line of credit since he's been 18. He's been very responsible with his money, so he does have a really good credit score. So when we go in to loan providers to get approved, he gets approved, and then I get approved for nothing, basically.

Okay. So it's going to go one way the other. You're either going to go the zero credit score underwriting way, or you're going to go the credit score using his credit score way. In your case, I can go through the requirements, but I think you already know this. You have to show 12 months of documented rental history. It's not by amount, it's just showing that you were good for a payment for 12 months. Unless you're in some way going to postpone buying this house, I don't know, when's the wedding?

The wedding is in August.

Okay. Yeah. Other thing is- So for manual unwriting, you have to show 12 months? Yeah. You have to show 12 months of documented rental history. You have to show 12 months of other trade lines, things like cell phones, utilities, insurance payments. You have to show actual money, so you have to show income for the last 12 months, 24 months if you're self-employed, and also provide pay stubs for the last 30 days if you're self-employed. And yeah, So that's a necessity. So I have two thoughts on what you've said. One is you can just say, Okay, my husband has a credit score and it's really good. We'll just get a mortgage using that. No one's going to fault you for that. If he still has a credit score and it's still really good by then. So you could go that route. Second thought, though, that I have is, what's the rush to buy a house so quickly? You will have just gotten married. Usually, we'd say, wait a year, at the very least six months.

Yeah, I definitely see what you're saying. We're definitely not opposed to renting. I think it's just the fact that we've been pretty good at... I have followed the Dave Rancy plan, and we've saved quite a bit, and we're ready, I guess, if we wanted to be, but we're not opposed to renting, I guess, if that's what you're hearing. It's just if we come across something we really love, we would love to put in an offer, but otherwise, we're totally fine renting.

If you are a long-term Ramsey listener, can I I'll throw one thing else at you? Yeah. And you know what I'm going to say? Yeah, I think so. You put yourself... Jade and I would only have jobs. Dave, Ken, Rachel, George, all of us. We'd only have jobs because people have these plans, and the plans don't work out like they hoped. So I cannot tell you there won't be anyone else in the world other than your family, rooting for you and your marriage more than me. I'm the world's biggest fan of marriage, okay? And I only have a job because people get engaged and then it falls apart. And so, I'm going to tell you this, I would not buy anything with somebody that I didn't have the legal protection of being married with first. And so even if that is nothing else to say, let's let's get married, let's live together, let's figure out distance from grocery stores and distance from our favorite music clubs and distance from our church, whatever we want to do, let's get all that settled before we anchor ourselves to a home, especially when we don't have, when you don't have, neither of you all have the protection, the legal protection of being legally married.

Yeah, I agree.

That's just what I would tell my friends. That's what I would tell my sister. That's what I tell my daughter. That's what I tell my So I'm telling you what I would tell the people closest to me.

No, I agree with that. I've definitely heard you all say that before, and it has crossed both of our minds.

And I know you all are special. Only other people have issues, right? I get that. But that's just something to think through.

No, yeah, for sure.

So have you tried the manual underwriting process with a loan officer yet?

Yes. And it's It's the 12 months of rent history that I keep running into. So I've tried to give them my student loan payments that I paid back.

Yeah, but those are trade lines. It's not the same. It really does hit different. So I think this is a... Let's call this- Divine intervention? Yeah. This is a sign. This is a sign that is maybe you're not quite ready. I mean, clearly, you yourself are not quite ready because you don't have the necessary things in place. And then If you guys get married and you guys go in on this, obviously together as husband and wife, it might make sense, like I said, to do everything based on what he's showing on his side, because either way, it's going to run one way or the other. You're going to go based on manual underwriting with a zero credit score, or it's going to go based on his side with a credit score.

And know this, banks only make money when... Well, that's not completely true, but they generally make money when they make loans. And so if a bank looks at you and says, We don't feel comfortable giving you this money, take their word for it. You know what I mean? Even if you're like, Dude, I have a great job. I've got plenty of money in the bank, whatever. All right, fine. We'll stock away more cash. We'll rent a small little place. We'll spend our time not worrying about the roof and the air conditioner, but just worrying about getting to know each other even better. And then we'll buy a house down the road. Yeah.

Or right today, you could start paying your parents some little bit of rent today and pay that through August or September, whenever it is you're getting married. And then you and your guy rent an apartment for three months, and then you're square, you're ready to go.

Or write your parents a $1,000 check for back rent.

I don't know that. Does that work?

Can you do that? I don't know. That may be fraud. That sounds a little shady.

That sounds a little shady, John.

No fraud. No fraud.

Run that one back. Okay. Yeah. So you've got some options, some of which are fraud. I'm sorry. That was funny. We'll stay here for that one.

It's okay.

Yeah. Hopefully, we can talk some sense into this for you. I agree wholeheartedly with John. I would just wait. All signs are pointing towards wait. If you wait, you have everything you need. You can buy the house together. It's fully secure. Everything is on the other side of waiting for this. So that is what I would suggest.

And a muscle for you your new husband to begin to exercise is you both really want a thing, but the timing is just not right yet. And learning to be frustrated together, to grieve together, to be annoyed together, both towards the same thing that actually will make you all stronger in the long run.

That's so good, John. Practice that because you're going to want a new Tahoe.

You're not going to have the money for it. You're going to want a third kid, but timing is just not right. You're going to want things, and you all are going to be frustrated. Start practicing that right Have you ever noticed...

Okay, here's a quick food for thought for the end of the show. When you're broke, and I'm not saying they are, have you noticed that when you're broke, you want so much? There's so much that you want to buy and go do, and everything feels like, oh, like anguishing to wait. Why not? Why not? Why not? Yeah. And then when you can finally get it, you're like, Oh, I maybe didn't want it anyway. I just want to go bed at 9: 00. You just wanted the option. You just wanted the option of saying, I can choose. That's right. It's just something to that. Oh, my gosh. What a great time. Hey, guys, remember, there's ultimately way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.