Transcript of 700: Keith Hawk & AJ Hawk - Conscious Competence, Delusional Confidence, Stacking Days, After-Action Reviews, Taking Big Risks, The Power of Compounding, and Modeling High-Standards

Before we get to this episode, I want to tell you about something I'm pumped about. It's called The Arena. Great coaches want to surround themselves with other high achievers. Great coaches want to be in a group where high standards are the norm. That's exactly what The Arena is— a private community of hungry, driven, growth-focused coaches led by the Hall of Famer Sherry Cole, Brooke Cups, Garen Stokes, and Eli Leiker. These are the people I personally go to, to become a better leader. Here's what's different this year. We just finished our first full year. It was awesome. Lots of coaches from all over the country at every level, from high school to college to the pros, across more than a dozen sports. Mike Powell with the Arizona Diamondbacks said, if you are looking for a group to push you out of your comfort zone, give you the tools to become a better human coach and leader, this is the space. It's not comfortable, but you're going to grow and connect. Applications for the next cohort are open now. The Arena might be for you if you are a high-caliber, high-character coach who is not afraid to be pushed and challenged and work on yourself to be better for the people you are leading.

If that's you, Go to learningleader.com/arena to apply. That's learningleader.com/arena. Welcome to the Learning Leader Show presented by Insight Global. I am your host, Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. Go to learningleader.com for show notes of this and all podcast episodes. Go to learningleader.com. Now on to tonight's special episode. Every 100th episode I record with my dad and my brother. Today we are celebrating episode number 700.

Incredible.

My dad, Keith Falk, also known as Pistol, spent decades leading sales teams at LexisNexis and has taught leadership and public speaking to audiences all over the world. He's also a bestselling author of multiple books, including Get Real Selling. Pistol has that rare rare ability to be both universally liked by all and 100% respected. It's really cool. My brother AJ Hawk was an All-American linebacker at Ohio State where he won a national championship. He was drafted 5th overall by the Green Bay Packers. He played 11 years in the NFL, won a Super Bowl, and was voted captain with the Green Bay Packers and retired as the franchise's all-time leading tackler. Now you see him every weekday on ESPN as a co-host of The Pat McAfee Show. During this special celebration of 700 episodes, we discuss the power of delusional confidence and why this is one of AJ's best attributes. Then, my dad's framework for being a consciously competent leader and why vivid clarity is vital. We also each share the biggest risk we ever took. We talk about big inflection point moments in our lives, and we ended as we always do with a draft. This one got a little weird.

Ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy as we celebrate episode number 700. It's my dad, Keith Hawk, and my brother, AJ Hawk. Pistol, AJ, it's number 700. Thank you for being here. Give me an update. It's been 2 years, September 15th, 2024, since the last time we recorded. Pistol, I'll start with you. Because I know H said that you already scripted this entire thing out. What have you been up to for the past 2 years? Give us an update.

You guys should know by now I don't go by script. I have a set list.

Okay, well, what's on the set list then?

The last 2 years I've been spending about 5 months a year in Florida. It's actually going a little longer than the last 2 years. And my days these days are— I will talk to a couple of old LexisNexis people probably through the course of the day for one reason or another. I'll go to my spin class and get my cardio out of the way early. Then I'll go to the golf course and play 18 holes. I walk and then I have time left over to do any other errands, duties I have, and occasionally help people on stuff that they're doing in their work, whoever that might be.

All right, Ace, how about you?

A lot of the, you know, business as usual or kind of what I was doing 2 years ago, I guess. I've been joining the Pat McAfee Show every day, 5 days a week, and then now we We travel a decent amount, especially during the football season. We get to go do like sideline passes, different things. We're watching a lot of the college football playoff games. That's been awesome. Going on site, doing shows, different things like that. And then as far as back home, just raising the 4 kids. I'm helping coach 3 different football teams right now. That's a little bigger commitment than I thought, but it's been fun. It's been awesome. Want to continue to keep doing what I'm doing. Absolutely.

What were you thinking in that moment? We're on, I think I don't remember which tee box, maybe number 5, and we're with Coach Saleh, who's the head coach of the Titans, and Coach McDonald, who's the defending Super Bowl champion coach of the Seahawks. And you guys were talking about how to tackle somebody. I thought that was one of the coolest 90-second to 3-minute talks I had heard in a long time.

I mean, I, I'm genuinely curious. We had Matt Patricia, the defensive coordinator for Ohio State, At the Combine, we were there doing a show, and I, after the show, I was like, hey, I gotta ask you, like, how are you teaching tackling? Because tackling's a big, like, it's a thing now, and how they teach it. And they had to coach young kids. You got to watch all these certification videos, you know, hey, here's how you use, you know, this is CPR, all of that. Also, they want to teach you how to block and tackle and all this, and I just don't fully understand the different ways that they're teaching tackling. If I ever see a coach, I gotta ask him, so saw and Coach McDonald, obviously both defensive guys. I have to— like, I just can't not ask these guys. I love what they were about and what they— how they teach it. It just gives me clarity and kind of reinforces my beliefs in what I'm doing and how I'm trying to teach young kids to tackle.

I was— because they're head coaches now, so you think, well, you know, they're away from the position coach teaching for years, and yet the detail— because I feel like, were you ever coached to that level of detail of how to pursue and where to go? And there's all different ways based upon what's happening on the play. I felt like it's more where's the ball, I'm gonna go get it style versus— I don't even know how they think of all of that stuff.

They do, and they have like terminology. They, they break it down in ways like— I haven't told him, I'm gonna steal that. I think Salah said like he called it like the swoop when you come in. We used to call it like come to balance, all different kinds of things. They all have their different terminology on how they use it, but they're all kind of coaching similar things. But the level of detail. You're right, they're saying like, it used to be, hey, take a good angle, use your help. If I got somebody outside of me, I'm running inside out, I'm gonna force him to my help, and I'm not gonna let him cut back across my face, all that. They have that times a thousand to where, hey, if you are in a trail position, if you are a little bit ahead, and they have terminology for all that and what kind of tackle it turns into, and players know exactly what they're doing. So it's fun to, to talk to those guys. I mean, when I started asking those guys about tackling, all of a sudden You know, 2 holes later, they'd be like, well, you know, but if it's this situation, you know, and he's coming up and you're behind the ball carrier and, you know, you know, it's a 3rd and short, you know, this is a different kind of thing.

And so they all, they, they love it. You could tell they love football. Those guys were amazing. Every coach kind of does, but when you hear how detailed they are and how passionate they are, like, it makes me excited. Like, I love it. Cause I, I'm kind of like a football nerd when it comes to all that stuff about hand placement, how to use your hands. To get off blocks, block destruction, they call it. All that stuff is— as I get older, it's actually become cooler to me because I realize how important it is. And guys like Luke Fickle, my linebacker coach at Ohio State, taught me a lot and how to use my hands, leverage and all that. So I'm just trying to try to explain to kids, I kind of give them a chance, like, hey man, like, it's a tough game. These guys are big, fast, strong dudes trying to block you and the guys you're trying to tackle. I'm trying to give you a little bit of an edge here if it's possible.

I love it. It was not a surprise after that, that day, especially seeing the Seahawks having won a Super Bowl based upon the level of detail that their coach— I think they're on Hard Knocks too, so I'm pumped to watch that. But he— remember, I think you were with me and I asked him about putting and other things and he said, you do not want to be inside my head. I'm a psycho about this stuff, you know?

Yeah.

You know, like in the best possible way. I felt that Pistol— what it reminded me of is stuff that you taught and still teach with those guys. And did not plan for it to go this way, but that's how this works anyway— was vivid clarity. You say that all the time.

I remember it.

I say it all the time now because you've said it all the time, that these great leaders are great because they're giving vivid clarity to the people that they're leading of how to do fill in the blank, whatever the thing is that they're doing. Walk me through your riff on this importance of being vividly clear as a leader with your messaging of what we're doing, how to do it, why we're doing it, all of that stuff?

Well, part of it is that the core concept is you want to be a consciously competent leader, and by that it means you understand the processes of the work you're asking people to do, not just the end result. I'll just give you a tiny example. When I would sit down with a new branch manager, I would say, one of the first things I want you to do with every one of your employees is sit down with them individually and describe in minute and vivid clarity detail how these people get paid because they were paid on a variable basis. Make sure they understand their actions correlate directly with their income. That's just one example, but extend it to anything that you're asking somebody to do. Don't just give them this broad general, hey, go get the ball carrier. Here's precisely how I want you to handle it based on different situations as they come up. So part of being a good leader, especially like a first-line leader of people that are doers, in the work, you've got to have the ability to know their work somehow at a great level of detail, I believe. Yeah.

So the way this is going to go is I've written down some notes, I sent them to you, as well as then I just asked people who listen to the show some things that they were curious about. Since people know that we do this, they ask about the 100th episode. This is like a thing, which is great. I love the tradition of it. So I'll go that way and then we'll end with the draft. One of the things I thought about, and I was having a conversation with a friend about age, and maybe Pistol, you could have something about this too, is they asked me about inflection moments or specific times or a specific time when I felt like, hey, I can do this. Because hearing stories of other people say like, hey, I can do this, could be inspiring for them with whatever the tough thing that they're trying to do. And so for us, I thought, well, why don't we pick a time in college? Because high school is, you know, there's those moments too, but it's like, whatever, high school's high school. Do you want me to go first? You want to go first, Sage, where you had like a moment or a time where you go, I can do this, I'm gonna thrive here, like, I think I can really do this thing?

I can go first, I guess. I don't know if there's like complete clarity, like, oh, I can do this. But I remember one play my freshman year in camp. When I went to Ohio State, there was the last year they did freshman camp. So all of our freshman class came in, there's like 25 of us, and we did like 4 days in pads practice against each other. And then all the rest of the team came. And I think a couple weeks into camp, maybe a week or two in, I was playing defense, I don't know, probably with the 2s, I think. And we were doing 11-on-11, like, drills. And they were doing a team period. And they ran like this— I call it like a tear screen, where outside receiver takes it, he catches the ball and tries to run down, like, through the chute, like a tunnel screen almost. A lot of people call it. And he was trying to run. And I, whatever reason, I didn't know— I didn't— believe me, I was— when you're young, you don't really know what you're doing. You're just reacting and instincts or whatever. And they were in this tunnel screen.

And I somehow read it perfectly. I don't recall exactly who caught the ball. And man, I had just a, like a textbook perfect hit on the— it was awesome. Like I found it, took off. I realized what the play was coming. He caught it and smoked him in practice. It was great. Everyone kind of like went crazy. I was a young guy, but I remember that moment like, okay, cool. Like this is football's football. And from that moment, it wasn't like, oh, here I've arrived or anything like that. But I remember that giving me, like, confidence and feeling like, okay, this is still football. These guys are all monsters. They're all big, strong, and fast. But I think I can find a way to make some plays.

That's so cool. I love it. I have not heard that story. I remember when I transferred to OU, I had a really good spring that first because I played as loose as I've ever played football before because I was ineligible to play in the fall. So spring ball, you're like, I'm just going to make shots, you know, I'm just going to be slinging it. And that's kind of when you play your best, you know, especially as a quarterback. Just let it go. I look at the schedule going into the season knowing I'm going to be the scout team quarterback, right? I've already played 2 seasons of college football at Miami, you know, get beat out for the job, whatever. So I look at the schedule, notice that we're playing University of Florida and Rex Grossman is the quarterback. And I think it was the 2nd or 3rd week of the season, but I was— I had circled that one and got with our equipment manager before the season. This is like during camp. And I said, hey, This is going to be our scout team Super Bowl. It's going to be me and a bunch of like walk-ons and freshmen and all that stuff.

So I need to get the blue jersey, I need to be number 8, I need to get the thicker wristband so I can wear it on my elbow, and we're spattin' the cleats that week. And I want to study Steve Spurrier slash Ron Zook's offense for Rex Grossman. Old school football fans remember like Rex Grossman was awesome in college and even like went to a Super Bowl with the Bears. But anyway, I got with my scout team leading up to that week, and I was like, we're gonna torch our guys. Like, it was— Tim DeRuyter was a defensive coordinator who would later go on to be a head coach, and DeRuyter was really big on building— I don't know how this was for you, I'd be curious to hear you say— he was really big on you gotta run the cards exactly how they're drawn because they draw up their defense to then crush the cards, which I think is stupid because You want to prepare your players to be ready, and I know they need confidence, but that's not how football works, right? You don't just have the perfect defense called for every play.

But anyway, so I got the cards, I rewrote the cards based on real plays that Florida ran, not the exact ones that the Rooter and his GAs had drawn up. And I brought my guys in, we watched film, we practiced outside of practice the Florida offense, like some of my receivers. During that week of that game, it's really only Tuesday and Wednesday, right? Like, those are the Super Bowl days, full pads, all that stuff. That Tuesday and Wednesday, we just carved our defense up. I mean, we just killed them. Touchdowns, touchdown, touchdown. And Darude was so mad at me because I wouldn't run the cards exactly. He was mad at our offense. We tore our guys up. But what happened was the defense— I think I just earned a lot of respect from all those guys. And I remember like our Dennis Chukwuemeka, our middle linebacker, Rob Stover, our free safety who would play outside linebacker some, they said, we're gonna be really good next year because we got a guy. And so like that was a moment where I thought like, let's go, where you prep, you do everything you can. I looked like him, I wore the jersey, I wore the wristband, I spatted the shoes, I tried to like throw like him.

And after the game, so we go down, they got on the floor to play the game It rained a little bit. It was messy. I don't think Grossman played that great. And we almost pull off this giant upset when they were a big-time ranked team and we were whatever, Mid-American Conference, middle-of-the-pack team. We lost the game but had a shot in the fourth quarter to actually win it. And my guys came back after the game and said it was way harder in practice than it was in the game. And so to me, that was like, let's go. Like, we got it now. Did the rest of the career go like that? Of course not. That's not how it works. But to me, I'll never forget that week of like, this is what happens if you prepare for the moment. You get your guys kind of rallied around this thing. None of us were going to play in the game. It was all a bunch of walk-ons and freshmen, but you could do something really fun together to try to help your team get ready. And I think we did. I think we helped them get ready and almost pulled off a crazy upset.

So that was a fun one for me. Pistol, I'm curious because there was a listener question, so maybe we'll just jump to that now. Of somebody asked like, hey, Pistol, when did you know— by the way, uh, I feel like I should do this now. Pistol's nickname is Pistol because when we were younger, he showed me and Age videos of Pistol Pete Maravich We watched him. We would go in the driveway and practice doing the crazy dribbling and passing and shooting and all the stuff Pistol Pete does. And then Pistol would go out and do all the stuff, and he would look not nearly as athletic as me in age. And we said, what are you trying to do, be Pistol Pete or Pistol Keith? And Pistol stuck. So that covers that. So anyway, Pistol, when did you think there was a, hey, these guys are good, or this could be like a thing for us when it comes to sports?

If I can give two examples quickly on both of you. So basketball, I think we all know, is a sport that really shows athleticism as much as any—

run, shoot, jump, all that.

And when you guys were like 4 and 6 playing in the rec league, it's all you had available to you at that time, they had a rule that you couldn't play defense past the mid-court line. You couldn't go full court, you, you couldn't play defense past mid-court line. And you guys were incredibly aggressive by comparison to the other 4- and 6-year-olds you were playing against. And I noticed early on, you figured it out, you would put your toes on the mid-court line, and as soon as the other guys got to that line, you'd steal the ball from them, go make a layup, to the point where, at least the times I was coaching you guys, I would say, once you make a shot or two, you got to make sure all your other teammates have a chance to get a shot. And so you'd keep stealing the ball and passing it to a teammate then so they'd get a shot, and then you get the rebound and make it. So basketball showed early for both of you, and I bet you guys remember that. But then I'll give you one individually for each. Ryan, when you were playing your first tackle football game, I think it was third grade, the Centerville Wee Elks— I didn't know how you were gonna be, but, uh, I had pretty good expectations.

I noticed just about every time you got the ball, you either broke away for a big run and/or scored. That happened. Oh, number 23 you were wearing in those days, I recall. And so it showed super early for you in football. I could have said the same thing about AJ, because clearly he was running away from people and tackling people like crazy in football. But I'll give another one— uh, track. AJ ran track one season as a very young guy, and I remember vividly— remember this part. I think he might have been in a relay. By the time AJ got the baton at the end, they were half a track behind, and he roared around the track caught the leader and then roared ahead of him and won by like 100 yards. It seemed physically impossible. And so then I thought, huh, that's, that's interesting. I think he's fast. And he was probably like 6. So it showed very early. And then you guys just kept piling on as you went. And then you started doing things later on that actually built on your skills. But in the beginning, you could see you had it both mentally from the standpoint of aggressiveness and excitement, not just being aggressive, but being excited to play.

And then get after it and compete.

How about you, business-wise?

Business-wise, I had stuff early in my career, but I want to give you one that was much later if I could. Okay. I had been head of sales at LexisNexis. I had not exactly been replaced, but another guy came in and had that title, and they moved me to another role where I was a lot more customer-facing every day. But I went to a senior leadership meeting. It was all the very top leaders of our business. I noticed there was a bit of a lull. The meeting wasn't going particularly in an exciting direction. And they asked me to get up and explain something. I forget what it was. And I was probably the most experienced person in the room, despite the fact it was all the leaders of the business. Somehow I felt like I just got touched somehow. And I gave this impromptu description of why aren't we great like we used to be great? And I described when the guy that hired me at Lexus walked into the Supreme Court of the United States and sold Lexus to the Supreme Court. And I've told that story before on your podcast. And I just felt like crazy energized and enthused and earnest.

And I gave this talk, and then we got done. They had hired people to run the meeting for them, and they came to me and they said, we want you to close the meeting tomorrow. And I did a similar thing the next day. And something like inside me that made me like more powerful than I actually probably should have felt, and more experienced. And I wanted to get to their emotions, and it seemed to, because from then, that point on, I felt like a very different kind of respect I had from the leadership of our business. I just felt like, wow, there's a lot of things that I never felt particularly strong at, like business strategy or running all the financials. But when it came to describing a situation where we are big and strong and powerful as a company, I know how to do that. And so they just kept putting me in those positions for years. And I think it all had— and that germination happened in an individual meeting where it stuck out that he had this one particular skill, and that was to powerfully describe what we do best.

You said that to me real early and have reminded me time and time again, and I, I remind others now. And there are examples of people that we could talk about, both maybe good and not so good, that if you're going to get good at something, get good at being able to stand up in front of a group and give a 1-minute, 3-minute, 10-minute, 60-minute talk. Be able to storytell, be able to get up and communicate effectively, keep people on the edge of their seats, give them something useful and practical. And now Age and I talk for a living. Maybe share more about that advice that at least you share with me, and, and maybe differently with Age since his career started as an athlete and mine started sales and leadership, the importance of just being an effective— not only speaking to, because people still tell me about the Keith notes, right, the Keith emails, the old-school Lexus people. I'd love to hear your overall thoughts on that.

I believe in a business setting, the most important skill you have is as a stand-up communicator. And by that I mean you can stand up at a moment's notice and and respond to a challenge, which is actually the more common thing, or give a speech, which is much less common. And the ability to take in information, process it in your head quickly, understand it, and give an appropriate response or appropriate impromptu little talk is a crazy important skill that so few people have. It stuns me that you can go get an MBA and never take a speech class. Some of my greatest realizations about any particular skills I had came in a speech class at Ohio University when I was like 20. And standing up there, I thought, this feels pretty good. I like the reactions I'm getting. And so I just ran with that and said, this must be what my skill is. But I think it's a shame that we don't emphasize it more. And to your point, so much of communication these days is written, oftentimes on a phone, in a text, or whatever form it takes. But written communication is absolutely as important as vocal stand-up communication.

But I think it should be emphasized 10 times, 100 times more than it is in our actual educational system.

What do you think, H?

I mean, yeah, I just know from talking to kids and other people, people are scared to death to get up and speak in front of people. And I think that's natural to be scared to death to do it, but you just have to do it. And I guess every job, every— you don't technically have to do it, but I think for anybody, it can only help you if you get up there and whatever it is. Like, everyone cares about something, everyone's passionate about something. So you could easily, even without preparing, if someone said, hey, talk for 5 or 10 minutes about whatever you're super passionate about. And I think you get done with it, and yeah, people might say, oh man, it didn't go as well as I thought, or whatever. Like, anytime I've ever spoken in front of people, I prepare and do all this, and then afterwards I'm like, oh man, like, I envisioned it turning out better. And it's always— it's turned out great, I feel like, and people have had positive responses and everything. But you always think about like how it could have been better and what I missed, what I meant to say here and how I meant to do this.

But yeah, I mean, everything Pistol's saying is just like what a coach is supposed to do. If I relate it back to football, like a coach that can clearly show you the path and let you know, and also like day to day, they got to be able to get up there and do that and not just get up there and speak because they feel like they should, like get up with a true message and a true something that you, you need to get your point across. You need to show them and say, hey, this is not what it's about. We're trying to get to this. And show them and explain to them what you're trying to be. Yeah, I mean, there's so many parallels between football and business and how it all works. And a coach, a leader, they're all the same thing. Manager, like, they're all the same kind of thing, and they're all trying to get people together going in the same direction.

One of the things I think is common with— I feel like maybe we were born with this— Pistol U2, The book I just published is all about the power of compounding, and it's really like, if, if you're not going to be brilliant, then you got to be able to endure, right? So I, I might— I may not win by being brilliant, but I can win by being able to endure over time. I can stack days, right? I can get up and do the thing day after day. And I think we've done this for a long time, whether it was in sports and now beyond that. And so this power of consistency, I think it's in our DNA, this power of understanding the magnitude and the importance of compounding habits and routines and rituals. Pistol, maybe you start. What do you think about this idea and how it feels? Maybe it even comes more naturally to us. I don't know. It's still really, really hard. You still got to make the choice. You still got to do it right. AJ and I had this kind of unwritten rule that no matter what we do the night before, we're going to get up and go to the first lift.

When we were in college, we're going to get up and go be with our teammates. You don't have to go to bed early all the time, right? But you're going to get up and go to work no matter what, regardless of how you feel. And now we've just kind of taken that to everything beyond those days. What do you think of this?

Beyond being a great speaker, I would say it's right there as a number 2, being the show up first, right? You must show up. You must show up on time, show up with full power, not some, you know, drag yourself into situations, whether it's a meeting or a customer event, whatever it might be. But every single day showing up is the beginning of it. And then once you're there, whether you're lifting weights or you're writing a sales proposal or whatever it might be, put the effort in day after day. Anybody that's been great at something, they probably didn't get great on the first day, but they did the right types of things along the way that eventually it shows itself. I mean, I think Steve Jobs scruffed around for a while before he found his passion for sure and started building what became Apple. And every other innovator probably— I mean, I've read the Elon Musk stuff a lot about his bankruptcy or near bankruptcy, and he was at the edge of failing, and yet he kept coming in doing what needed to be done to build a great company. And so, you know, I'd see you guys lifting weights in the basement when you're in like the fourth grade and just pounding them away.

And clearly as a fourth grader or second grader, it doesn't show up in the form of muscles right away. But over time you're stacking that work that's not just the physical element that you're building. You're building a strong brain. You're building a, I am tougher than perhaps others that I will encounter in the world. And so whether I'm getting mentally tougher or physically tougher, I think it's incredibly vital to being a really successful person.

Yeah, I mean, as I was lucky enough to build relationships with a lot of your teammates, especially in Green Bay over those 9 years, and I remember when we'd have conversations about you, they would they would use kind of the unsexy words like the most consistent guy on the team. I know he is going to be where he's supposed to be on every single play. First guy in the weight room, will be lifting every day, gonna work. And you did that your entire 9 years there, uh, and I'm sure in Cincinnati and Atlanta as well when you were there afterwards, and certainly at Ohio State, that those guys say the same thing. And now taking it to what we do beyond sports, What do you think about this idea of consistency, of stacking days, the power of compounding habits and what you do with your work today?

I mean, yeah, it's, it's easy to like say and think about, but it's like anything else where, yeah, it's not cool to talk about. It's not like fun. Like you said, the sexy word. It's not showing up every day, being there, doing what's right. Yeah, that's the only way I know how to do anything because that's just how I guess I was wired from a young age. It's saying like, it helps me that for me eating, like, I could eat the same thing every day my whole life. I have no problem doing that. I love scrambled eggs. I know this is a— I don't need to go on a tangent about it, but I can eat scrambled eggs. Give me 10 scrambled eggs every morning, I'm the happiest guy alive. I love going, taking my kids to tournaments and staying at like, you know, like the SpringHill Suites type places where they have the continental breakfast, the free breakfast down there. And then I go down there with my kids and I'm like, oh man, I'll go down early. Get a lift in while they're sleeping and bring up a big plate of eggs. You guys won't believe this.

Another, another awesome place with free eggs down here. I'm consistently with everything. And I think that it makes it easier for me. Like, I don't need anything exotic. I don't, I don't need anything crazy. But yeah, I mean, that's, that's what sports are for me. That's what everything is like. All right. I can't come in there and all of a sudden one week decide to turn it on and then all of a sudden become good. No, it's like years and years of all that. And I didn't think about that at a young age. I do remember, I think I've said on here before, like coaches telling you, hey dude, when you come out to practice, like, let's focus on one thing to get better today. And like, when I first started hearing, I'm like, all right, that's like cliché coach speak, like whatever. I started thinking about, I'm like, well yeah, no, today I'm gonna work on my hand. I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get better. My thumbs up, elbows in, when I'm taking on a blocker, I want to have perfect hands and I will be violent and then throw these guys off me.

Like, every day you think about something to get better at it. I'm like, oh, this actually works. Like, it's actually cool when you, when you have some intention going into it. It's everything. And it's just like, uh, it's reps. From the first time you do something until the, you know, you think of the difference, like the first time you did anything compared to the 100th time you've done it, you should be much, much better. And that's how I kind of view everything.

Yeah, I think taking that approach to everything has served us well, especially doing it when nobody's watching or they're not around.

And not performative. There's a lot of performance stuff now that I noticed that starts to bug me. There'll be kids, Coach, can I run an extra one? Oh, let me run it. Like, shut up. No, we're done. Like, no, you don't need it. You run an extra one when we're gone, when nobody's here. You don't need to ask me to run an extra sprint or an extra lap because you think your dad on the side is going to be awesome, or your dad's not going to yell at you when you get in the car. Like, we don't need to do things performative. We do it because you want to be great. And sometimes I think, honestly, if I wanted to do extra stuff at times, I would wait till everybody left and then do it. Or I would, you know, I would wait till the weight room cleared out before I went in because I don't want people— I don't want it to look like or think like I'm doing this because that you think I should be doing this.

Well, remember, H, so after practice when we're playing together for a few years in high school, we wouldn't lift weights after practice in the Centerville gym because other people would see us. And so we would drive to Premier Fitness, which is by the Dayton Mall, and you would sleep in the car. I remember I would drive and you would be asleep, and it would be like a 12-minute ride, and you would sleep for like 8 minutes. And then we'd go— and this would be after practice— and do extra lifting beyond the stuff that our coaches had us do. But it wasn't like a big deal. I don't think we even really ever talked about it. We just were like, all right, let's go to Premier. And then you take a little nap in the ride and we go. But I think that's It's the same way people say, how do you write a book in the midst of doing this? And I say, well, just get up an extra hour early for 200 days in a row and never miss a day.

That's easy.

But you can do it.

Yeah, you can. You can do anything. I mean, that's a lot to say. 200 days is wild.

Well, then just start with 30 or 10 or 5.

Start, hey, for 2 days. I'm gonna do it 2 days and hopefully continue.

Just start stringing together. But I mean, it is absolutely possible Anybody can do it. It's just you're not willing to do it. That's just it. You're just not willing to do it like you are capable, but you do have to make the decision and then you have to follow through and then follow through and then follow through. And so I think that's really big. AJ, I want to get one of the funny stories about— you've told this before with Pat and with me because mainly because I copied this afterwards. You met with Mike Nolan when you were, I believe, in college getting ready to go be drafted into the NFL. Is that correct?

Yep.

Tell me the Mike Nolan story.

Oh, so Mike Nolan was the head coach of the 49ers when I was sitting here in college at Ohio State.

Yeah.

And I was still in school. It was like a month or two before the draft. The Niners brought me out for a visit. So I got— I went out there and got to meet with Mike Singletary, was actually a linebacker coach at the time. Met with all the different coaches, ended up going to dinner with the coaches. Mike Nolan, I got to ride in his car. We went to this cool place in San Fran., you know, there's a valet car guy and we're getting out of the valet and Mike Nolan didn't have any money to tip the guy. So he was like, hey, you got any extra, you got any cash on you? And I had a $10 bill and I gave him a $10 bill. I'm like, yeah, here you go. He's like, oh, thank you. Appreciate that. And he tipped the guy just 'cause he didn't have any cash on him at the moment. We had dinner, all this stuff, and then the visit was great. And then I, my college house that I lived in, we didn't get much mail. Like who's sending mail in college? And it doesn't happen very often.

I get a something from San Fran. I open it up and it's a nice handwritten note with a $10 bill from Mike Nolan telling me thank you. So I like the fact that he remembered that. And then I've, over the years I've gotten like, he does, he was doing some SiriusXM radio. I've gotten to run into him a few times and I remind him of that story and he's like, oh yeah, I felt, still feel terrible. Didn't have any money on me at the time. Like he was a really good dude. And I knew right there, like that guy, this guy's paying attention. Like he, he knows what's going on. So I thought it was pretty cool.

I love it. I love that story. I, I was at Double Days, I don't know, a few months ago, out with one of the leaders that we work with. He's a great dude. And I didn't bring cash because I was going to pay the tab with a credit card. And they brought the bill, and then our friend Johnny Thomas happened to be there that day who owns the restaurant, and he took the bill away and he's like, I got you, you know. And I said, this is a problem because I don't have any money to tip the waitress. And the guy I was with tipped her, in this case, $20— inflation, I guess— and, uh, tipped her $20. And so I remembered you telling me the Mike Nolan story. So I wrote him a thank you note. He lives in Centerville. It's like I could have handed to him, but he lives in Centerville, and I wrote him a nice thank you note and gave him $20 in cash after hearing that story. One other thing too I wanted to get to is because I have a fun Tahoe story that I remember that I think applies well beyond Tahoe, and I'd love for you maybe to tell one if you want to, or at least respond to what I'm going to share, and maybe we'd even share the same one.

But I think it was a few years ago We get to hole number 9. Hole number 9 is this beautiful par 4. It's a short par 4 for you. You can actually see Lake Tahoe down the left side of the hole, and there are a bunch of trees down the right side. It's got a little baby dogleg right. It works well if you're going to hit a nice little cut. You can actually normally drive the ball up to a distance to where you have like a little 54-degree flip wedge and, you know, putting for bird. But on this particular day, you hit it right and it cranks off of a tree. I think you remember this one. It cranks off of a tree and actually comes backwards and it lands in the first cut. So not the deep rough, but the first cut, roughly. I think we shot it at like 254 yards away from the pin. We get a distance and the group in front of us is a few guys and one of them is Jack Wagner, singer, actor guy who actually has won that tournament a few times. And before we even get to the ball, you say to the people we were playing with and to me, oh, this will be fine.

I'm just going to get a 4-iron and I'll hit it on the green and I'll have a birdie look. And, you know, that's normally you're just trying to like advance the ball or do whatever. We get to the ball, the lie wasn't bad. We shot it right. We got our distance. But Jack is still kind of reading the green and trying to figure out for his putt as he's getting ready to go. And you just stand over the ball and you say, I'm just going to go. And I said, Well, no, because if you hit it good, he's still on the green. You can't hit into him. You said, now, why am I going to hit on the green? I'm just going to go. And then before I could even say anything, you take the club back and you swing, you hit the ball. And as the ball is in the air and it's coming down and it's about to land, Jack Wagner pulls his putter back and starts to hit his putt as your ball is landing on the green. The fans start clapping. In the middle of Jack's backswing and he's putting and it literally landed right next to him to like 25 feet.

And to me, there's two parts of the story. One, it's just funny that you almost hit him as he was in the middle of putting on the green in front of us, which you shouldn't do. It's not great etiquette, but it was kind of funny. Two, was your mindset. And this is the part I want you to, to respond to. Well, you can respond to whatever you want, and that is this kind of belief of, I'm pretty far away, I just hit a bad shot, I'm gonna hit a good shot, and I'm almost gonna speak it into existence, and then I'm gonna do it. And I think this is something that could be helpful for people, and I wonder how you truly think about it. Like, did you actually believe in that moment, I am going to hit this 4-iron 254 yards out of a decent lie onto the green and then have a birdie look. And I've heard you talk about this a lot before. This is just one tiny example of you speaking something into existence and then doing it. The Jack Wagner part's just kind of the funnier element of the story.

How do you honestly think about those moments where something bad happens and then you respond and make it better?

I mean, I don't know, especially with golfing, with that moment, like I 100% remember everything about it because I— first off, I was, I was mad. I hit a drive. I mean, I— yeah, I hit a lot of drives out of bounds, but it hit the tree and how far back it came, I was like, all right. But my instant thought was like, you know, I tell you all the time out there, I tell everybody, if I can find my ball, I'm getting a birdie. Like, I can— and I think I made 1 or 2 birdies the whole tournament, so— but I still feel like if I can find my ball, I'm getting up and down. And I definitely 100% believed I was going to put on the green though. Yeah, like that That was no question in my mind. And I remember getting like— I remember me and you like going— as I'm trying to sprint up to my ball to hit it, I remember you trying to almost slow me down, like trying to get me to wait a second. But you can't, like, they're still on the green. And I'm like, yeah, I know, I know.

And so I planned on getting on the green. I thought maybe— I say, if I mishit this, I'm gonna roll it up and we can call bull yell 4, right? Bull yell 4. And I struck it It came out clean. It came out pretty good.

And I remember, like, you just flushed it.

It was in the air. And I remember being like, oh, okay, like, here we go. I don't think we yelled 4. And I remember hearing, like, even from way back, you kind of almost like the ball hitting the green and Jack looking back. And then him saying, I apologize to Jack right now. I did kind of lie to him when he's like, well, yeah, we're wondering like, why, why were you even hitting? Like, at the time while we were on there, why were you even hitting? I was like, oh, I was I was so far away, I didn't think there's any chance I was getting to the green. Jack, you know, my bad. I hit a shot of my life, and I did hit the shot of my life, but I did believe I was going to get there. Like, I knew if I hit this good, it's going to be there. But I mean, especially with golf, I think for me, like, I've always been very delusionally confident in my golf game and feel like if I— like, yeah, why not? Someone— like, someone's got to win this thing. Why can't I win?

But beyond that, if you look at people who put a positive dent in the world, they're delusionally confident. They believe they can do things that they shouldn't believe that they can do or that anybody can do. But then they have the guts to go and do it and have an actual belief that they're going to do it. And I think that's a, a trait that— can it be developed? I hope so. Maybe the reps and the compounding is part of that too, like doing the work. But this belief that I can do something— again, this is a funny example, but I think it's a very real thing of I think I can do something that's— I'm a little bit delusional, and I, I kind of like that. Like, I, I want to be around people that are a little bit delusional with what they think they can do.

I think, yeah, why not? I mean, I— a lot of it, partly, especially when I verbally— when I talk about or say stuff like that, I do it around my kids to try to pump them up and pump their confidence up. Because kids, like, that's all I care about is them being confident in everything they do, especially sports. But I am so like— my kids are at the age now where they love to tell me, I'm all, you're old, you can't move, your knees hurt, you're, you know, you have no chance, Dad, you're not fast anymore. And then every once in a while you got to remind them who you are, you know. And so I do that every once in a while, like once a year or something, I'll take off on them, catch them in a sprint or whatever it is.

Or if we play the boys in 2-on-2 basketball, like, you know, they're gonna get crushed.

It's over.

Yeah, anytime we're over, I'm gonna— no mercy. Like, they're getting destroyed.

Yeah, but I, I'm delusional. Like, I I'll tell them, oh yeah, I definitely got that. I'm like, I'm making that shot. Give me it. And like, I, I rebound all the time for my daughter. She gets upset sometimes because I like to get shots up too. I'm like, hey, I'm not just rebounding. I need some shots. Like, I need— I got to get my points. But no matter what, I, I try to tell them, it doesn't matter. I don't care if I miss 50 in a row. Every single shot, next one, in my brain, the next one's going in. Like, the next one's going in no matter what. And I— it almost started out as a joke, I think, when I was a kid, and it just became what I do and how I think about things. Like, I don't care, next one, no matter how bad it is, next one's gonna be great.

I think as a quarterback, you got to have that belief. I've tried to take that same thing because in college that wavered at times, right? You lose a job and you lose some confidence and lose some of that belief. And so it's like you got to regain that. You're just not as good if you don't have some of that, like, I can make that throw, I can do that, right? I can squeeze that sucker in there, you know? Like, I think that's a good thing. Pistol, when you hear this, what do you think about this?

I'm reminded of a— I think you know who Bill Simmons is, the, uh, announcer. He uses the term irrational self-confidence. He goes, there are some people I see, they are irrationally self-confident, but I kind of like it. It's not really irrational, it's just as long as you believe it's possible, it's possible regardless of what it is.

So yeah, yeah, I think it's a positive, not a negative. Let me get to some of these questions. Let's start with Pistol. What's a risk Or I can go first. What's a risk each of you has taken that has paid off? Alex Feldmayer, she's awesome. I mean, I left corporate America at the end of 2017, going into 2018, great job, VP of sales, L Sphere Clinical Solutions. We were beating our number, good pay, good bonus, great people, loved them. Not everybody, but certainly everybody on my team I loved. So to leave that and kind of go from all of that to nothing, but the market had told me a little bit that this podcast thing and the the business built off the back end of that, like speaking and leadership stuff, that there was a chance. But that's definitely the biggest risk I've taken because I had a family at that point too. It's not like I was single and only, only taking care of myself, but I had immense belief and I, and Miranda had immense belief, maybe even more than I did. And I think that combo has really paid off now years later.

It certainly was a little tough the first couple of years because you just take a big pay cut and that's not fun, but certainly doable. But I would say to me, that was like, It's probably the most obvious answer, but it's also true. And now, you know, we're on the other side of that and it's really good. How about you, Pistol? Biggest risk or a risk that you've taken that's paid off?

Yeah, I think you guys might remember, but you probably haven't thought of it for a long time. In 1999, in fact, August 1st, 1999, I left LexisNexis where I had spent 14 years, pretty good 14 years, and I went out and joined this one-person company and I made it a two-person company called Performance Technologies to see if I could make it just as a public speaker out there in the business world. And I did that for nearly 2 years. But then one time I'm having dinner at a place called Carver's, and in that restaurant was the then CEO of LexisNexis. And my business partner Michael said to me, why don't you go talk to him and see if he'd be interested in you speaking at their national sales meeting that's coming up? I went and met with him. His name was Lou. Lou goes, uh, maybe, but come see me tomorrow. I gotta— I got another idea that might be a little bit more interesting to you. And the next thing I know, 6 weeks later, I left my 2-year venture out into the private world of public speaking and came back and joined for a much bigger job than I had left LexisNexis with, leading the biggest sales force in the company.

I gave myself the gift of taking a risk August 1st, 1999. I gave myself the gift of coming back to LexisNexis August 1st, 2001.

Was it really on your birthday both times?

I left on my birthday, it was a gift. I came back on my birthday, it was a gift. Yeah, and my career even went up another 5 notches on returning. So those, those 2 years out there in the wilderness, so to speak, really helped me, uh, be ready for the next thing. And it also says, what if I hadn't gone up and talked to him at that dinner? Who knows what our futures would have looked like? But we'll never know because I did go up and talk to him. So I think, you know, taking, taking the risk of like, hey, go, go talk to this guy, maybe get a speaking job out of it. Instead, I got a jolt to my career. Wow.

Yeah, it's a good reminder just to go up and make the ask. But what about you, H?

Well, first off, so Mike— when Mike told you to go speak to Lou, is he pissed off that you left him then all of a sudden?

Yeah, he lost his guy.

He lost half his company.

It was kind of interesting because I felt bad, and I— once I knew I was going to make that move, I had to go meet with Michael to tell him. And it was— it happened to be trash day that day in Centerville, and your mom said, hey, take this last bag of trash out to the cans. I'm like, okay. Anyway, I go, I have breakfast with Michael. I tell him the news that I'm leaving. He's crying. He's a very sensitive dude.

He's actually crying.

Well, you know, like at First Watch, like at a public breakfast spot.

He wasn't sobbing, but it was, it was the Golden Nugget.

Anyway, we, we walked out and we walk out to my car and he's, you know, I said, hey, good luck to you, man. We'll be friends for life. He goes, hey, why is there a bag of trash in your passenger seat? I was so preoccupied what I had to tell this good friend of mine. That I had this bag of trash, that I drove it all the way up to Vandalia, Ohio in my car. Didn't even think about it.

Great. So that's awesome.

Go ahead, H. I don't know if I have like any—

I got— mine's like football, right? I don't know, like risk. I don't know if you call it a risk, but my fifth year, early in the season, I think, or maybe September, even just into October, I did something in a game. I, I knew my wrist was messed up pretty bad. Like, it was popped. It would like— it would almost feel like a— it would like clunk in and out, and it was super painful every time it happened, happened in a game. I happened to actually be mic'd up in this game. I remember seeing the clip from it. I went up to my trainer— there's a trainer, Nate, Nate Weir, unbelievable guy, officiated his wedding actually later— and I went up, I said, hey, something's off my wrist. I said, I'm not getting an X-ray, I'm not getting an MRI, don't even ask me to, but I need a cast. Like, I need you to tape this up and put a cast on here for me. I can't, I, I can't bend it. If it bent, it was just deadly. And so then I only did this because I had a teammate that like 3 weeks earlier hurt his wrist and he came out of the game.

I remember talking to him about how it felt and I was like, oh no, that's like what mine— that's— I did a very similar thing, it feels like. And he was put on IR, so meaning his whole season was over. Surgery right away, season done. And I was like, they're not putting me on IR, I'll figure this out. I had like our trainers make me a little cast that I practiced in every single day, then wore a cast in the games. It was obviously painful and everything, but luckily that year we went on, we ended making a run in the playoffs, and we won the Super Bowl. And then I had surgery like 2 days later after the Super Bowl. I had the worst MRI of my life. Super Bowl was on Sunday, we flew back Monday like afternoon in Green Bay. I had to get an MRI. I finally told him, okay, I think I probably gotta get an MRI on this wrist. And they're like, oh, finally, okay. Like, the doctors knew something was up, but they had no idea how bad it was, I guess, because I wasn't gonna tell them, wasn't letting them look at it.

And I had to do a lay down on my stomach, face down, with my arm up in the air so they get a look at my right hand, right wrist. So I was like an hour straight, and we had just won the Super Bowl too. I lost £50 sweating, laying on that table. I was so hot and just sweating out. It was, it was a brutal MRI. And then of course, after the MRI, they're like, what, what's it— you didn't tell us about this.

Your whole wrist is completely gone and stuff.

Yeah, they had to do this whole 3, 4-hour surgery with a screw and a pin in my wrist and a cast for like 3 or 4 months. And I got the cast off and became fully, like, healthy right as training camp opened that next year. But yeah, just by— luckily I decided to— I was like, I'm not—

there's not really— luckily, I mean, I don't remember it affecting your play.

Yeah, I mean, I, it, it— I grew to—

because you made the Pro Bowl that year.

It was a Pro Bowl year. You made the Pro Bowl.

I learned how to play with a little cast on. And luckily, like, as the year went, I even, like, I cut down my cast a little bit. It started out pretty high at my arm. I cut it— I would take a little bit off of it. As I was feeling okay or able to handle it. But yeah, like, if I would have let them give me an MRI or an X-ray, they would have most likely shut me down and sat me out for the rest of the year and try to get me to have surgery.

Wow. And if I can interject on that, the last time I walked through the Packers Hall of Fame, they had a little display with AJ's wrist cast sitting there in the Packers Hall of Fame.

Really? Are you serious?

A little bit of a description. Yep, it was right there.

Oh, I didn't know that.

Oh yeah, I mean, it's—

I don't know if it's there today, but it was there Wow, that's cool.

That's awesome. Okay, how do you teach standards of greatness to your kids? Pistol, why don't you go first? How do you teach standards of greatness to your kids? How do you teach your kids to have high standards, I guess, is a good way to put it.

Yeah, I don't know if you're always overtly teaching high standards. I think it starts with exhibiting high standards as best you can through your work efforts, uh, your respectfulness, and so forth. But I do think it's very conceivable to say, can we find a way to build joy into work, right? Things that others might perceive as work. So when you're young, that's kind of practicing things. So whether it's standing under the basket and rebounding, as AJ just mentioned a little bit ago, whether it's throwing passes on the sidewalk to see how high you can jump and catch them, whether it's going to the batting cages 11 o'clock at night and hitting and hitting and hitting and having the joy in the work The joy in the process of becoming great, to me, leads to the reality of becoming great. And so to me, I think it's just about, to your point, of those little layers you stack on each day of learning to enjoy the process and get excitement not just out of the outcome, but the excitement out of what I'm doing to get to the outcome. Yeah.

Hey, what do you think?

It's tough. I think, like Pistol said, you gotta like, you show them, kids. I, I remember I asked some of my kids' friends about like their parents or what, like their parents coaching them, and they say, well, my dad tries to turn everything into a life lesson, they said. And I'm like, oh, that's interesting, because my kids kind of think the same thing. If you're like, you can't just explain to them what it is or something like, well, you know what you should be doing here, what you need to do. And like, yeah, I'm just shooting hoops or I'm just throwing the ball. Like, I don't— I want to just do this. I don't need you to explain to me what happened to you 25 years ago and why you're tough and why you know, whatever's going on. So I think you show them. I think you just got to show them what it is, show them consistency without trying to push them and tell them what to do. And they'll just naturally hopefully want to follow in your footsteps and want to figure that out. And I mean, it's tough though at times. Like, if you feel like— like our kids, we don't have good or bad games.

Like, did you play hard or did you not? Like, that's all I care about. Did you play hard? And sometimes I've learned you kind of have to show them what it is to play hard and Jack Johnson, my brother-in-law, he kind of reminded me of that a couple years ago. He goes, but he goes, yeah, he said you kind of got to show them and tell them. You can't just say play hard. Like, sometimes they do think they are playing as hard as they possibly can where they're definitely not. And if you showed it to them, then maybe they would. So I'm like, you kind of, kind of describe it, or at least show them what it looks like when they actually play, like, to a certain standard. Like I said, it's all attitude and effort is all I care about. That's all we talk about. Yeah, I think it's just something you have to live every single day.

Yeah, again, consistency. I, I agree. I think too don't know who said it, leadership is caught more than it's taught, right? And so that's us being the model. So knowing like one of my primary role as a dad, husband, is to be the model, right? Meaning no leader can expect their people— in this case we're talking about kids— but no leader can expect their people to do something if they're not doing it. If I have low standards, then obviously they're going to have low standards. So So that's why it's like, if we're going to choose to do something, let's do it to the best of our possible ability, or even sometimes make it fun. We're in line at Chipotle and making sure we look them in the eye and say thank you to each person who makes your bowl or whatever, like fun games like that. So then it creates the habit of being, let's say, grateful, for example, of saying thank you, of being kind or holding the door or being curious about another person. We have to model that first foremost. And they see it, you know, they see all this stuff. Even if they want to make fun of us or act like they don't, we know they do.

So I think how you teach it— I don't think you teach it, I think you model it. That's how I would answer that question. Of the three, who's the most regimented? We probably all are.

All are.

I don't know, what do you think, Pistol?

I don't know, Pistol, it's one of you two. When the regiment— and I take that—

you don't think you're regimented?

Oh, I think I'm regimented in a, in a much less organized way than you guys.

What does that mean? What does that mean?

I wanted to hear regimented. I feel like, I don't know, I mean, regimented. I'm— you guys, like, I don't know, I think you guys, you plan it out better, you document it better, you like write it down better. You're more organized in that. I'm regimented out of like instincts. Yeah, you know, I gave a speech, you know, a month and a half ago. I used Eli to put my PowerPoint deck together. Oh, thinking of all that stuff is tough. I could tell him what I wanted, but I'm just not like— I don't know, I'm not as good at like following up and staying— I don't know like how to describe it, but I think I know you guys probably know who I am.

Yeah, I think part of it that helped me is like 12 years at a corporate job where you're using like all these tools to calendar your days and having to make cold calls and cold emails. Like, that has helped me more than I ever realized it would with all of the stuff I do now of this cold calling sales type. And some people still think of that as a word, and I, I will hate that forever because, as Pistol, you've said forever, like, the whole entire world would come to a screeching halt if sales professionals didn't exist. But I take that same regimented mentality to everything, like even being in the caddie age, you know, like, if I'm gonna be a caddie, like, I might as well try to be as good as I can be. Like, the towel's got to be a specific amount of moisture on it, not only to clean the clubs but for your hands because you don't wear a glove, right? If we're gonna do it, then do it well, whether it's giving a talk, working with leaders, doing a podcast, writing a book, PA announcer, right? You know, Pistol, you know, you got to see a lot of those games.

I took that job way more serious than probably anybody in the history of the high school.

I think so.

Alter High School. Because like I wanted to get all the pronunciation right. I wanted to make the girls really, really excited when they had a big play. Like all these things, the music playlist, like I was in charge of that, all of that. I think if you're going to do anything, then you might as well like do it really, really well. And for me, I guess to do it well, again, like there's a regimented part of it.

I think what's probably throwing AJ off on the regimented is this: sometimes we've used as synonyms regimented and disciplined.

Yeah.

And I think if you'd said disciplined, AJ probably would have had a different response. So to me, regimented really talks about some of the things like you describe— how do I write a book? Yeah, get up an hour earlier every day for 200 days. That's regimented. It's also high degree of self-discipline. So AJ Regimented, here's one for you. I think, uh, every year, as I recall, when you would go to training camp, whether it's with the Packers or later on with the Bengals, you would have a bit of a notebook and you would start your notebook fresh and you would write down everything as if it's the first time. Am I right at that, or did you just kind of keep the old notes?

And no, you're right, that's how I learned, like writing old school papers. So yeah, we would reinstall the defense every spring, every summer, and I would always Every year, yeah, reinstall like the same thing. Yeah.

So you're treating it though as if this is the first time, so you're rewriting. So like you knew it with— so I would imagine you do that so that you don't have to think, right? You just play.

Yeah. So I trust your instincts. I think that's what football is. That's anything.

Hey, dude, I think that's like the work. I think that's—

yes, you're right. Do everything, do all the work and all the prep, so then when it's time, you just trust your instincts and you don't have to think. Like, I think, yeah, you're right. I think that's anything.

Well, pistol— like, if you're good in a sales call, sales presentation, if you're good giving a speech, the people who are the best, they don't really have to get ready because they're always getting ready every day. Age already knows the defense. So you could walk in and be like, I've been here, this is my 9th year, or whatever, and say, I know this defense, but treating it as if I'm going to take the same notes, and when we install the same thing, I've done it 9 times. But I'm going to do it again. So that once you're on the field, you just go, you let it rip. Yeah.

And you're not taking it for granted. You're not taking it for granted. You're saying, I'm— I have to treat this just as importantly in year 9 as I did in year 1.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, the older you get, the more you understand that too.

What do you mean?

The more you understand, like, how cool it is. I think I remember driving. I like also those— my notebooks with all my— all the football installs. It started as I got older playing, like, it was like a little diary too. I would write in like things I didn't like from coaches. Hey, definitely don't do this if you're ever a coach, or do this. It was usually positive stuff.

I always put that in the parentheses, like when I go see a speaker. So I, I'm writing notes on what I'm learning from the speaker, and then in parentheses they'll do something that you think is not good. Hey, that's like my coaching myself. It's weird how everyone has their own way of taking notes.

Yeah, you have to. And I think that's— I mean, everyone learns. You got to understand how you learn too, and you can't get pigeonholed, not let someone tell you. That happens in football when people tell you how to watch film, how to study film, or, well, this is what you need to do. I'm like, well, no, I— how I see things, how I interpret it is much different, so I need to— I'm going to watch this way. Like, you just got to find what works for you, however that goes.

What about beating your shellfish allergy? Yeah, I've never heard of this before until you've told this story. How did you beat your shellfish?

Hear about it?

I've seen what happens to you, or at least used to happen to you, when you had some type of shellfish.

Yes. How did you beat But first off, I've had doctors have been doing this with young kids now. I think that—

so you've—

you have changed the medical field forever.

I don't want to take it— take any credit for that. I came up with it on my own, like, it all— there's no big thing about it. But yeah, I tried, I believe, lobster when I was in high school, my senior year or somewhere, and my eyes exploded, all that. I couldn't really see.

I could— Will Smith in Hitch.

Yes, just like that. And I was like, man, what happened? I guess it's a shellfish thing. Then I tried like a shrimp 6 months later, a year later, and same thing happened. My eyes are shut, throat, your tongue gets like tingly and weird, all that stuff. So it took years. I didn't have any shellfish 'cause I didn't really care. I didn't like shellfish anyway at the time. But then for some reason I thought shrimp cocktail looked good. I wanted shrimp cocktail. So I started what ended up being like a 6 or 7 year plan. And I took, I had no idea how long it was going to take, but I was like, I'm gonna try that. I'm gonna be a guinea pig. I think I can figure it out. And so I would take like one tiny bite of shrimp and then my eyes would explode and I would wait a couple months. Then maybe I'm in another situation, I'd have a little bit bigger bite of shrimp, my eyes would explode. And so I just, over the years, all of a sudden one day, I don't even remember the day when I was like, boom, I had like 4 or 5 shrimps and I'm like, here we go.

And my eyes just got like red and they didn't explode. They didn't like swell shut. And then now here we go. I can eat any shellfish I want, even though I don't really like it. Shrimp is fine. It's okay if it's there. I might try a couple, but yeah, I don't love it. I'm not obsessed with it by any means, but I was— it was great to see my body respond the way that I was hoping it would.

I love this. Again, it kind of flows with the whole theme of this entire conversation of this determination to overcome and irrational self-confidence.

Correct.

Is there a little revisionist history, or was this an active plan from the beginning that it made? I was always a player.

Yeah, yeah, I was a public about it. I told Nate, we were the trainer back there. I remember it might have been one of the first times I was able to have shrimp and my eyes not explode. We went to Nate's parents' house. They lived— when we play the Kansas City Chiefs in preseason, we would go to his parents' house, a bunch of players, for dinner. And I believe one of the first times I had shrimp, my eyes didn't completely swell shut, was at Nate's house. And I remember thinking like, I had to humble myself. I'm like, geez, what— this is— I can do anything. I There's no bounds to what you can do. Here we go. I beat this shellfish thing. But yeah, there's, there's not revisionist history. I, but there wasn't like some big grand plan where I'm like, today's the day I'm going to start microdosing myself with shellfish. That didn't happen. But over the years, I started gaining confidence thinking this is, I tell you what, we're really responding well to this. I think it's soon enough. At some point, I will be able to eat shellfish. And it was like, I think it was like 6 years worth of like trying little tiny bites.

Here we are. One of the other things you struggle with though is when you jump into a pool. Come on now, you like to hold your nose.

I don't know, I mean, we shouldn't even get that started on this.

Talk to me about your coaching on how to jump into a pool.

First off, dive. You dive into a pool even if it's 30-foot. I'm a good enough athlete where you can— I'm going— I'm not diving straight down. Yeah, I'm shallow. I'm not an idiot. You gotta do a shallow dive. No, I mean, that's just one of the things. I sure hope Pistol isn't plugging his nose down in Florida when he's jumping into a pool. I just don't understand it. I don't get— I never understood the pinch in your nose situation and jumping into a pool. Like, water doesn't just magically fly up your nose and make you freak out. The one time I've seen when it actually happens, when I— it's still not okay, but if you watch people get baptized, like adults get baptized and they hold them and they go, all right, pinch your nose. I'm like, nope, I've been baptized, I don't need to. But I promise you, if they're taking me and dunking me, I'm not holding my nose when they dunk me.

So you're brave, man.

No, it's not— there's nothing about it.

I agree.

I just think that's how it should be.

We were at, uh, having dinner, family vacation, and we went around the table saying like, what's one of your biggest icks? You know, the girls talking about dudes or whatever. And that was one of them. I had to say it.

Was it?

Well, that was mine. Like, you can't do it.

Well, like, especially a grown adult. Like, a kid, you can give him leeway. Like, okay, he doesn't know any better. He saw someone I would actually blame the parents and say he saw his dad do it, but that's something that they can fix very quickly.

But I think it's just like, no, just like you microdose the shrimp, just dive in the pool. Don't hold your nose.

Either dive in or do a sweet can opener or a sleeper. Yeah, one of those.

Driving with two feet.

What about that? I thought everyone did it. I assumed everyone did it. Yeah, I mean, it became a thing. I told Pat about it, I guess, and it's become a thing. And people do yell at me at different— you've been in Tahoe, people yell that they drive with two feet and stuff. I know it is one of the things that people— it does make me laugh when— and I, I always go and give them a little fist bump. I knew you were an athlete. I'll tell them like, yeah, yeah, I could tell you're a smart person. I think it all started— I mean, my first car I learned on, thankfully, was a stick. I had the little two-door Honda Civic. Crystal knows, Burke's old car, the little stick shift. And then I had a Wrangler So I've always had a clutch, so I'm using the left for the clutch. But then when I got an automatic, I think it honestly started from—

you got hurt, right?

Yeah, I was always kind of— I would do it a little bit, I think, when I was younger. I never understood how using one foot— I remember when they were trying to take— when the first time I was learning to drive, they're like, well, no, you, you shouldn't use your left foot for the brake. I was like, why? They said, well, you're gonna ride the brake. And thinking, why would I ride the brake? I'll use the brake when I need to use the brake. I'm not going to ride it with my foot on the gas too. It It's one of those things that I can't— I didn't comprehend. And so then, yeah, like, I remember hurting my groin and knee and stuff. I wouldn't want to lift my right foot from the gas to the brake, so I could just keep that right foot there and then use my left. And then, like, you know, that's just— that's just how I drive. Why not?

Yeah, genius.

No genius. I just think that's just how everyone's brain works differently, and that's how my brain figures out, hey, this is the most efficient way to drive. And guess what? People say, oh, your brake pads have got to be worn down, you go through brakes so quick. I'm like, no, not at all.

I just think it's fascinating to learn, and for just humans in general to learn about the weird parts of people or things they believe that maybe others would look at them and think they're crazy. Do you guys want to do the draft?

Yeah.

Okay, can't wait to see pistols. I can't wait.

So we drafted the last however many hundredth episode, all different types of random stuff, and I think the one that is really interesting is because this is a question that gets asked at like icebreakers or something, is if you were gonna have dinner, who are some people that you'd want to have as dinner guests? And so I tweaked the rule a little bit. I want this to be a dinner that could actually happen, like you could somehow organize it, meaning every person on your list has to be alive, right? So this is a dinner that if you worked really hard enough, you could maybe make it happen, okay? Pistol, is your board correct with that? Yeah, people are alive. Okay, and so we'll do a snake draft where we'll let H go first, I'll go second, Pistol you go third, which means you get 2, and then it snakes back to me, and then it goes to H, he gets 2, and round around we go until we each get 5 people to be at our dinner. And then we will see who wins the draft. And I think the— how you decide who wins the draft is like what looks like the most interesting fun, cool dinner table of people.

Is that fair?

Sounds good to me.

And I think the Luring Leader listeners, uh, who contribute could say something about that group.

Yeah, we get— it's funny how Pistol somehow— maybe like the listenership gets last place every time. No, he gets first.

Like, it's your demographic.

What's your demo doing over there? I know, I know. Like, oh, I don't know, I think Pistols are pretty good.

Play a little young. I play a little bit younger too.

He plays young.

Last time, Age, remember we did, um, Stranded Island? You had an iPad with whatever TV show and he picked golf, right? And, and they had to like broaden it to the Masters, I guess, which actually ended up being a good pick and I think helped him maybe win that draft. But, uh, Age, all right, so this is— you're at dinner, you're gonna have 5 people with you. Who is the first person you want at that dinner table?

I would assume you guys might have this guy on your list as well, but I'm taking Michael Jordan all day long. Jordan. Yeah, Michael Jordan. I mean, you know, like, he—

why Jordan?

I mean, why not? Like, what the guy— just everything about him so interesting. It would just be cool. I don't even need to talk. I just want to hear him speak. And actually, you know what, you'll get to see some other— my other draft picks. I think that might help spur some good stories out of Jordan too. So I mean, Jordan is He's the dude. Like, he's my era. I'm 42 years old. Jordan, yes. Like, he— everything about what he did, his competitiveness, his crazy drive.

Then did you hear that story he told recently about when he rented that house and the guy that had a basketball hoop—

what, free throw, when he had to make the free throw?

He said it was like the most nervous he had been in forever just because he was just so— I just thought that really humanized him. It was like a cool moment where he, he talked about he he was so nervous to make the free throw because there was like random people that he rented the house from wanted to see him.

Oh, I thought it was awesome. It was like Jordan never shows like vulnerability or anything like that. I feel like— and he, he was saying like it was like the most nervous he's been. And there's video to show it, like there's video to prove it. They had it from the backyard. So I thought that was awesome and made me even want to have dinner with that guy even more.

I agree. That's actually a really good one. All right, I'm picking Dave Chappelle. I think he's got a combination of it's going to be really funny, and I'm really optimizing for a good time, lots of laughs. He's interesting, he's not afraid to share points of views. I think we would agree on some and disagree on some, and I love people like that where you're not even fully sure where he's going to come down on something. He'll probably be really, really funny. Local guy too, right? We could eat, do this in Yellow Springs, right? Right close to where I'm at right now. But I'm picking— my first pick is Dave Chappelle. All right, Pistol, you get 2 picks. I get 2, 2 picks, and then it comes back to me.

Yeah, I have different themes across my guests. My first one, we all like a good Army story, military story, and I am, uh, he's about to pick a dead guy draft pick. I'm for sure Admiral, Admiral William McRaven. Oh yeah, the, uh, the Admiral in charge of the Vietnam War, the Captain Phillips He's on my list. Many, many more. Well, I'm glad to hear that, but he's on my list first, so he's my first round pick because I think he'd be fascinating and everybody would love to hear him.

He's awesome. What a story. Talk about storyteller. Oh my God.

Well, you know him.

Yeah, he's awesome. Literally, he's awesome.

All right, so I'm at the snake end. I gotta get another one.

You're gonna go again? Yeah, and then I'm up.

My second pick has been the soundtrack of my sports life, and that is Dan Patrick. I would like to have Dan Patrick, who is an amazing storyteller. He was one of the early guys at ESPN SportsCenter. He's broadcast NBA, he's broadcast football, he's presented the trophy at the Super Bowls. He's good pals with Adam Sandler, he's good pals with Darius Rucker, and he's got an amazing amount of stories. And we are almost the same age. And so I would have Dan Patrick as my second pick there on my dinner.

Is your board only my podcast guests?

Probably not yet. All right, all right.

Well, I mean, you're 2 for 2. Um, I know my next pick is also good friends with Dan Patrick. I'm picking the second Dave, and that's Dave Matthews. We're gonna play music. I want comedy with Chappelle, and I want music with Dave Matthews so that he's gonna be singing and playing guitar in between the comedy of Dave Chappelle. So my second pick is Dave Matthews. All right, you get 2 picks, Age.

Oh boy, that's a solid— I still don't understand the snake draft thing, like 5 years later since we've been doing this.

It goes like this. Yeah, you see, and when you get to the end of the snake, they let you go twice because you were at the end. Does it make sense?

The end here? No, it never will. Last pick, it's just how brains work. It never will. I don't— never will understand.

Okay, just trust the process. You get 2 picks now.

I do, because I don't— I trust you guys aren't going to have anyone on my list, probably. Actually, this next guy, I think you Someone could.

Okay.

The great Charles Barkley. How could you not?

Wow, you're just gonna go all basketball storyteller?

No, not all basketball, just Barkley. I'm thinking of like, you talking about a positive dude that lightens every room he's ever been in and everyone thinks is the man, is Charles Barkley.

Yeah, this year, this year we got, we got backed up when we made the turn on the last day, and we get up to the tee box and Charles is about to tee off for his first hole of the day. And you've probably seen the— we— I've sent you videos of like when they do the, uh, the bio of each player And so the guy is, as he is reading Charles Barkley's bio, Barkley hit his ball. He did not wait to— he did not wait until the bio was done. He hit it literally in the middle of the guy doing it. He's the only player I've ever seen do that. He just, he was just like, he's taking too long, he's saying, talking too much, and he just swung, hit his drive right down the middle, I think, and, uh, just kept playing. Barkley's the best.

Yes, Barkley is the man. So I think obviously him and— and I've heard recently he and Jordan are like making up. They're, they're getting back together. They're going to be be cool. So that's a great— another dinner guest. And then third one, my second one here, I saw this guy post something yesterday. I think he's turning 79 years old. Arnold, the man.

Oh, yeah.

Oh yeah. Wow, looking good. He was out there lifting on Venice Beach, and I just think he is so— just his whole— you talk about his whole life story arc of from where he started to where he is, everything he's done. Yeah, Arnold would absolutely be at the table.

Talk about having this delusional belief. This dude comes over here and was like, I'm just gonna make it happen. Lift weights, Mr. Olympia, biggest movie star ever, governor. I mean, what a life. That's actually— he'd be amazing. What a good one. Okay, my third one is I'm gonna pick someone who I think is one of the greatest storytellers, living storytellers in the world. This is just going to be story after story, and also maybe the greatest voice alive. I'm picking Mike Rowe. Mike Rowe, Dirty Jobs. He's got a podcast, he's written books, he's awesome. I mean, I don't know if I've heard— he— the way I heard it is, uh, his podcast and the way he writes and tells his stories. Dream podcast guest. All these are for me, but dream podcast guest would be Mike Rowe. Like, rich, incredible voice. Even better stories. Mike Rowe, that's going to be a— my table is going to be perfect so far.

All right, Pistol, pretty good.

You good too? Yeah, yeah. My next one, I like a little humor injected, and you've already got Chappelle there. I've got somebody I think that is the queen of roasts. I want Nikki Glaser at this dinner.

You— are you really only picking podcast guests here?

He's so far— she will tear it up. Make fun of everybody, have fun with everybody, make fun of herself. I think she's awesome. I love her.

Did you hear her process to get ready for that Tom Brady roast?

Yes.

I mean, that, that's inspiring to hear how many times— how hard she knew what a potential moment that was for her and thought, I am gonna make the most of this moment. I think that's even a better— I mean, she was incredible, but that was an even better part of the story, was I got this moment. And one, she had to call the people at Netflix and like beg to get on stage. She earns the spot and then just goes nuts in her preparation. Had a team of writers, she went out and worked the sets and at local comedy clubs. Like, I love that part of the story.

Yeah, super preparation, but she's, she's amazing.

Love it. Okay, who's next?

You get two.

Who's next?

Snake draft, you understand, Pistol?

I'm sorry. Oh geez, I'm at the tail end of the video.

This is, uh, this is—

I got you.

I'm the only one in the family that understands how this works.

I wasn't thinking about it. Talk to me again. Stephen Covey, who wrote The 7 Habits, has a son, young Covey, who is alive, and he wrote a great book called The Speed of Trust, and it happens to crystallize my biggest belief about business that says if we have trust person to person, we can make anything happen. If there's a lack of trust, we can make almost nothing happen. And so whether it's AJ trusting that great defensive back behind him, that he's going to be where he needs to be. And that's an example of trust. Or whether it's I'm going into a business situation, I've got to trust somebody's numbers that they're putting in front of us to justify something. Trust is the most important element to me in terms of interpersonal. Once we build trust, we can make anything happen. So young Stephen Covey and the Speed of Trust was important to me, and I think he could really teach us all something at that table.

All right, so it looks like you are sticking to the podcast theme. Uh, he's an awesome dude. Also a lot of athletes in that family too. One of them plays— uh, Britton, I think his nephew plays in the NFL.

Is that right?

He's a return man for the Eagles. Yeah, yeah, really good player. Okay, again, we're focused on humor, music, storytelling, and now I'm focusing on history, who also is one of the greatest living writers that we have. And has been in some of the craziest, coolest rooms ever. And that's Doris Kearns Goodwin, probably the current greatest living historian that we have, and has written many books— Team of Rivals, all the books about the history of our country, about presidents, about all of that stuff. Doris Kearns Goodwin. And she's still, again, a dream guest. I've sent her letters and called her and tried a million different ways and have not got it yet, but I'm still determined. I think she's 89. To get her to have a conversation because I've seen her and is just out of this world historian storyteller. So Doris Kearns Goodwin is my 4th pick. I doubted she was on your boards, but you never know. I didn't want to—

I had— that was my next pick.

I didn't want to risk, risk it, so I, I just, I grabbed her in the 4th round. All right, you get your final, your final 2 picks here, H.

All right, I get 2 here.

Okay, then it comes back to me and then Pizzle gets one more.

I don't know if you guys know this guy or not, it just seemed very interesting to me. A guy named Palmer Luckey.

He—

yeah, Oculus. Yeah, Android.

Remember, big Ohio State sponsor now too, but he has gigantic things they're building in Ohio now. He builds obviously weapons and all kinds of technology for the government, for the military. But he invented Oculus, sold it to Facebook. If you just see him, he's, he's like a movie character of what you think a super billionaire tech whiz kid would be. He's still young and he owns awesome like military boats and helicopters and like listen to him talk about the future of technology as far as what they're going to do for the military and different things. Like, just an absolute different human than I've been around. And I think it'd be cool to just to, just to see how he goes about his day and the stories he has. Also just how he— I don't know, he— when I hear him speak, he's super, super passionate about what he's doing, and he seems to be having fun. Like, he's just doing it the right way, I feel like.

Man, Pistol, have you seen Palmer Luckey's 60 Minutes special?

No.

Oh, you got it. Just search on YouTube. I remember I sent him a cold email that night after I read it, like, and all the people like in his network. I've been trying like crazy to get Palmer Luckey because he is so smart but also seems like a reasonable, good dude on top of being insanely smart. Already a billionaire from selling Oculus to Facebook or Meta or whatever. And now Anduril is going to be even bigger. Maybe already is with the drones and all that stuff. Wild, wild, wild, dude. But seems like, yeah, fun and smart and like a really good storyteller too. And, and yeah, fun guy. That's a good one. All right, Ace, last one for you.

Last one for me. This is a classic. I may have used him in the past for things, but Denzel Washington. He's the guy I say when, when people tell you, hey, who would you want to play you in the movie? Since I've been 10 years old, I said Denzel. Like, he is who I would want to play me, even though our ages don't match up. I know I think he could do a good job. The dude seems very interesting. He seems to like sports. He goes to basketball games.

Son played football, I think.

I haven't played football. Son's a good actor as well.

Yeah.

But yeah, how could you not want Denzel in that? Can you imagine Denzel just sitting back like his hands like, oh yeah, Charles, tell me about this, Charles. Oh, come on, Mike, what do you think? Like, it would be— I think you really—

with Arnold Schwarzenegger and Palmer Luckett. Yeah, that table would be insane.

Yeah, I'm not saying a word.

I'm just hanging Yeah, I don't think I would either. All right, Denzel, I think he'd be perfect. You guys look alike. I think he'd be perfect to play you in a movie. I like that pick. Okay, my last one. I'm staying on the theme. We got our comedy, we got our music, and we got our storytellers. So my last one is also one of the greatest living storytellers, one of my favorite writers, authors, and that is Michael Lewis. Michael Lewis is sitting there because I'm also not going to talk at this dinner. I'm going to listen to comedy. I'm going to listen to music. And then I'm gonna listen to this banter between Michael Lewis and Mike Rowe and Doris Kearns Goodwin and see what Chappelle thinks while Dave just kind of waits to play the next song. I think that feels like the greatest dinner of all time if I add in another storyteller, and that's Michael Lewis.

Good pick.

Yeah, all these, by the way, are on my dream podcast guest list. Palmer Luckey, by the way, is also on that list, uh, that I, that I chose for mine. I'm trying to get all these people and have had multiple attempts and got a little bit close, but none yet. So anyway, Pistol, who is your fifth and final pick?

You broke my code early on that I'm only choosing this year on this podcast people that have been on the Luring Leaders Show, okay, over these past 700 episodes. So I'll finish it that way too. We want to be entertained, we want to be amazed at this dinner. We don't want to just hear good stories. Done. I'm picking Oz the Mentalist. Oh boy. Pick. You round it out.

Ose got a little exposed this year by busting with the boys, guys.

A little bit. He's still doing it. That's my guy.

But he kind of, he kind of has come back. He seems to be doing it. Ose is a character. I went to New York City for that one. That was fun. It was fun to be there with him. But he was performing from the second he walked into the room to the second he left the room. He was Ose. It was funny to hear him do his thing. I mean, he was in— we saw him in Tahoe and he was, uh, it was fun there. The stuff he did out there. He kind of—

he's a master. He's a master at how he interacts with people, everything. Like, he, he knows how to do it.

All right, Pistol is gone. Admiral William McRaven, Dan Patrick, Nikki Glaser, Stephen Covey, and O's. You there, Pistol?

All right, age—

Michael, what happened?

I don't know, I didn't see it. Did he fall?

No, he got up and just walked out.

Oh, he got up?

Yeah, he got up and walked out.

I didn't see him get up. I'm glad he didn't fall over.

What happened?

I'm back. What happened? Small emergency, small emergency, no problem.

Okay, is everything all right?

Okay, your mom just got home. I had to close a couple of doors.

Oh geez, I thought you had a heart attack or something.

God, well, I wouldn't have got up and run away.

Well, he didn't see you get up.

I just saw your phone turned down. I'm like, geez, do you have a stroke? Or I thought you may have dumped your pants or something.

I didn't want to mess up the podcast.

I just said, don't go dying on us here.

I was saying, we're gonna watch it. I always started to think like, man, is Ryan gonna keep this in? If Pistol has a heart attack right here on the show, it'll be—

that'll be entertainment gold.

I was just recapping the draft, Pistol. I said yours— A's got MJ, Barkley, Arnold, Palmer Luckey, Denzel, mine Dave Chappelle, Dave Matthews, Mike Rowe, Doris Kearns. Good one, Michael Lewis. I mean, it's hard. That's a hard one. I think I would like all these dinners. I still like mine the best, but I, I would like all of them. Based on this list. It would be interesting to see how Jordan and Barkley and Arnold— Denzel just getting them going, that'd be pretty good.

Yeah, it would.

One last question before we go. Um, I always ask the champagne question. Now, Age and I had a dinner at the end of last year where I asked this to all the guys. It was kind of cool to see what they said. I'll start with Pistol. Champagne question, Pistol, is it's a year from now, you're popping bottles, you're celebrating like crazy with all the ones that you love. What What are you celebrating?

I'm gonna do it tomorrow night, my 70th birthday, with all of you guys and your, your spouses.

Well, we're doing it tonight, actually. We're doing it tonight.

Yeah, I was doing— yeah, my bad. At any rate, my birthday's tomorrow. Yeah, the dinner's tonight. No, that's what I want to— I, I get to do on the first day of this podcast year. Uh, it's tonight. So, uh, all you guys together in one place, cool restaurant. We'll do some of these little, uh, questions probably to the group. And then we'll adjourn later to your house with all the grandkids. So that would be good.

It is good timing for you. What about you, H?

Well, I think I said to— when we had that dinner, like I said, I want to continue to do what I'm doing. I want to find a way to always be in the moment and be present because I think your kids show me more than anything. You look back at your kids' pictures when you're young, like, geez, this is crazy. You got to slow down and enjoy it. So I'm like I said, I'm coaching all my kids' stuff. I try to tell them as we're walking out to practice, I'll say, man, like, hey, this is like, I love being able to do this. This is really cool that I get to come and be here and help with this and be around. So I'm just being present in the moment, not ever— you know, with kids, you worry about everything with them. So I just want to celebrate enjoying them while they're kids.

Pistol, we had a, uh, dinner in Columbus. Was that November? Maybe. It was cool. Some podcast guests: AJ, James Clear, it was awesome. Yeah, Mike Deegan, uh, Rob Kimball. Just a great group of humans, all dudes, just kind of around the table in Columbus. And, uh, yeah, we asked this. I remember H saying that, and it was, it was great, of just this idea of being in the moment. I would say for me, just a good year of college for the older girls that are going to college in our family.

We got 3 of them going at once.

So I think that's, uh, it's a crazy year. And so define good, I don't know. Hopefully everyone's happy, healthy, and wanting to go back. I guess that definition of that would be a good year. So that's forefront of our minds. I don't think that ever goes away. I remember Uncle told us at like a family gathering recently, goes, you think you're gonna stop worrying about him? You won't.

He's right, he's right.

You think he will when they get a little older?

Nope.

You know, and his kids are powerful now, they're older than me, you know. So I was just like, uh, yeah, okay, great. Yeah. All right, awesome. Thank you. I know we went long only because Pistol couldn't get Zoom working, so it's your fault. Thank you for messing it up. But, uh, AJ, I know you got to get ready to join the show. Thank you. This was awesome. Thank you. See you guys in a few hours.

You guys, we'll see ya. Awesome, you guys.

Thanks. It is the end of the Podcast Club. Thank you for being a member of the end of the Podcast Club. If you are, send me a note, ryan@learningleader.com. Let me know what you learned from this great conversation with my dad Keith Hawk and my brother AJ Hawk. A few takeaways from my notes as we celebrate 700 episodes. So cool. How about that Mike Nolan $10 bill story? What's your version of paying attention and following through? AJ didn't even remember that he lent him the 10 bucks for the valet, but Mike made it memorable by writing him a thank you note, mailing it to his college house, and reimbursing him for the money. We can all do our version of this following through. Being grateful, saying thank you. People will remember these actions forever. What is your version of the Mike Nolan $10 bill story? And then, I love it, delusional confidence and/or self-belief. It's one of my favorite attributes about AJ. He puts in the work every day, so consistent, so reliable. He is probably the hardest worker I've ever seen, and from that, he believes he can accomplish anything, whether it's flushing a 4-iron out of the first cut 250 yards, or being a coach for his kids, or having that tough conversation.

He has a belief that he can and will do it. Positive self-talk. It's real. I love being around people that are slightly delusional about what they can accomplish. I'm trying to be more like that. Our world progresses and grows because of people who are slightly delusional about what they can do. They have this belief. I love it. Then Be a consciously competent leader. If you wanna be vividly clear with your team, you have to know your stuff. And one way to do this, do an after-action review after wins and losses. You gotta understand why you win. You gotta know why you lose. Be able to describe both of them in detail. A consciously competent leader knows why they win and lose, and because of that, they can teach others and be vividly clear with with their messaging. So good. Once again, I would say thank you so much for continuing to spread the message and telling a friend or two, hey, you should listen to episode number 700 of the Learning Leaders Show with my dad Keith Hauk, my brother AJ Hauk. And by doing that and going to Apple Podcasts and Spotify and subscribing to the show and write a thoughtful review, hopefully rate it 5 stars, you are regularly giving me the opportunity opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis, and for that I will forever be grateful.

Thank you so, so much.

Talk to you soon.

Can't wait.