Transcript of #2507 - Harland Williams New

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The Joe Rogan Experience.

Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day.

Dmitry was here when Donald Trump was here.

Wow, that made my day.

It was important. Doesn't matter what side.

It doesn't?

No. There we go.

Wow, these are nice.

Dmitry the Snake.

Yeah, tapeworm.

Oh, that's right.

Tapeworm.

Yeah. What's going on with your face? What are you doing?

Ah, this is a tight one for me today, guy. I'm feeling ripe.

What is that?

It's a—

it says Betty?

Billy.

Billy.

Oh, B-I-L-L-Y. Oh, it's a, uh, It's a memorial tattoo. I don't know if you knew this or not, but, uh, my, uh, my kid got hit by a truck.

When did you have a kid?

About 2 years ago. I haven't told anyone. I was ashamed. It was a one-night stand. Kid.

Is it a human kid?

Yeah. Billy.

He get hit by a truck?

Got hit by a truck.

Was he just walking?

Well, someone, and I won't say who, left the gate open and, uh, he wandered out into the street And, uh, boom, like hit by an 18-wheeler. And, uh, this is like a memorial.

So you got Billy tattooed on your forehead?

I have two tattoos. I got Billy on my forehead and I got a tattoo of his little face over my heart.

Let me see it.

Really?

Yeah.

God.

First of all, what happened to the one when you were attacked by the bear?

That healed up. This is Billy.

Billy Goat.

He's a kid.

Billy the Kid.

Yeah, yeah. Poor little guy.

Poor little guy.

He was a service animal.

I thought he was your son.

Well, he was my boy.

He was a kid, but you said he got him out of a one-night stand.

Well, that girl sold him to me. It was a service animal. Yeah, it sucks, dude. And you know what sucks? He was hit by a truck that was hauling medical supplies.

Okay, how ironic, right?

He's laying there, and to watch your kid bleed to death— he's just laying on the pavement like, yeah, just bleeding to death.

Amazing, he was still alive.

Well, he— I couldn't believe it. He was alive and a respirator rolled out of the back of the truck, a life-saving device, and crushed his stupid— crushed his head.

So he was killed not by the truck, but by the final blow of the respirator landing on him?

Right. So the irony—

What are the odds?

Well, this is the irony in life, Joe. Like, he got hit by the truck, might have survived, a respirator rolled out of the back. These things weigh a good half ton. Lands on the idiot— on the kid's face and, uh, gone.

Poor Billy.

So memorial tattoos.

Well, you're a good guy.

I was a good—

I would have ate him.

Is that right?

Yeah.

How does goat taste?

I haven't had it. It's pretty good.

Yeah. Wait, you have? Sure.

First time I ever had it was in LA at a Mexican spot. They sell— they were selling goat tacos. They were delicious.

Oh my God.

Yeah. And then I had a neighbor, well, not a neighbor, who's a landscaper that was a friend of mine that would, he would fight chickens. They'd do chicken fights.

Cock fights.

Yeah.

Yeah, I've had those.

Trying to be polite, cleaning up for the viewers.

Well.

Chicken fights.

Cock is kind of the technical name.

Seems wrong.

Yeah.

When you're saying it.

Have you ever?

I don't like how you're saying it. But anyway, they would roast a goat. He told me whenever they would do a cockfight.

Yeah.

Feel better?

Well, it's not for me.

It's for the culture.

Yeah. I mean, it is what it is. A pit bull fight.

Actually, I wonder how you say it in Spanish.

El coco.

So anyway, he lived in this neighborhood. You would swear to God that it was Mexico. It was crazy. Like every sign was in Spanish. All the people were in Spanish. There was roosters everywhere. He just on his street, you hear like all day long. It was like, it was crazy. And so he had, This friend of mine, a friend of his rather, we went to the backyard, and in the backyard there's just stacks and stacks of rooster cages. They had so many roosters, and they had these prize roosters, and they had a whole pit. So they had a thing, it was almost like a barn-looking area, and you go in there and there's a pit.

A cockpit.

And then that's where they would fight, and he was showing me where they would roast a goat. He said every time they would have a cockfight, they'd roast a goat and everybody'd have beers.

Well, if you're going to have a cockfight, you might as well roast a goat.

That's what I said.

But if I had a cockpit in my backyard, I'd get it like a Delta pilot and an American Airlines pilot and toss them in and let them fight it out. Let them fight it out in the cockpit.

Who do you think would win?

Probably Delta because they have the DEI program. Do they?

Yeah.

Or in this case, they all do. The DEI. The DIE program, because someone ain't coming out alive.

Well, I think we need pilots, so maybe you should do it with someone that's like overrepresented in the marketplace. Like, what would be like, we could get rid of some of those folks who we could single out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Would be like, we've had enough. There's too many of you guys.

Yeah.

Politicians.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

Homeless. Advocates.

I'd love to see politicians get in a pit and fight, right? Yeah.

Two men enter, one man leave. I mean, that had to be how it went down a long time ago. Yeah, a long time ago.

Oh, you're talking like cavemen years?

Tribal days.

Tribal day.

Yeah, they probably had a fight. Yeah, I think my opponent's a piece of shit. He wants to steal all the coconuts.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I think, I think back then the hierarchy worked based on physical dominance, intimidation.

Mm-hmm.

Like you'd be a good leader. You got, you got, you're jacked.

Yeah. I'm not a good leader though, because I'd be like, you got to do what you want to do. I'm not really interested in running this place. I got to get out of here.

Yeah. Yeah. Because once you decide you're running it, you're stuck with everything.

Yeah. And all the problems are your problems.

Wow.

And everyone wants to kill you. Like, who the fuck would want to be president? This is why voting for president is a real problem. Yeah, like in 2028, it was like, who's going to win in 2028? Who's going to win? Who's going to run? Who wants that fucking job? What normal, healthy person wants that job where at least half the country is going to fucking hate you? And the people that you got in, that got you in, like, they're not going to be happy because you're never going to be able to do what you're saying you want to do. It's not even possible. What'd you just put up, Jeremy?

I was going to say, do you think they could start dueling again like they did in the '17 and '18 presidential?

Yeah. Many periods of history, according to Perplexity, our AR sponsor, politicians fought literally with fists, canes, swords, and pistols, and some famous ones were killed or badly injured in these clashes. 1700s, 1800s, dueling was a common way for gentlemen and politicians to defend their honor in Europe and the United States. That would be sick if congressmen, you know, like, on— they start screaming and yelling at each other like they always do. Yeah, I challenge you to a duel. Everyone's like, oh, Let's fucking go. Yeah, go out on the White House lawn.

Andrew Jackson killed Charles Dickinson.

Yeah, the author was wounded himself.

That's not the author.

No, no, no, no, no. I mean, that's Dickens. That's Dickens. Okay.

I mean, that's a bad review for a book when you go, you piece of shit. I didn't like Tom Sawyer. Boom. Did Dickens write Tom Sawyer? Or Huck Finn?

No, no, no, that was, um, Samuel Clemens. Mark Twain.

Samuel Twain.

Yeah.

What the hell did Dickens write?

Oh, I don't remember.

The, uh, the Christmas one.

Christmas one? The Grinch?

Which ones he wrote?

Grinch That Stole Oliver Twist.

Christmas Carol is the one I was trying to think of. David Copperfield. Great Expectations.

Oh, he wrote that?

Yeah, Christmas Carol is I was thinking of.

Okay, he wrote some great stuff. What year was, um, put that thing up again about the duels? Because, uh, so Jackson killed someone in 1806. When was he president?

Later.

This is later.

Wow.

Yeah, so he shot someone and then became president. He was a murderer and he became vice president.

Did it in 1804.

Whoa.

JD Vance is going out and shooting the Treasury Secretary right now.

What? This is crazy. They had a pistol duel with the Treasury Secretary. Hamilton was mortally wounded and died the next day.

It'd be crazy to see right now.

Wow.

Wow.

UFC fights at the White House. Maybe they could do that.

It ended this guy Burr's political career. Scroll back up again. And Aaron Burr, so it was the Vice President Aaron Burr shot the fucking Treasury Secretary. That's crazy. Former Treasury Secretary, and killed him, and then it ended his career. Even in 1804, they're like, that's outrageous. Yeah, but isn't that crazy? That was just the 1800s.

Yeah, 200 years ago they were shooting each other, and America's all about guns, so why aren't we just doing that now?

It would end a lot of like really shitty conversations. Yeah, because a lot of people, they talk in a way, they say horrible mean things because they know there's no repercussions. Yeah, if, if If they could just challenge you to a fistfight on the Senate floor, if that was a thing, yeah, would change a lot. 1856, Representative Preston Brooks of South Carolina entered the U.S. Senate chamber and brutally beat Senator Charles Sumner of Massachusetts with a cane after Sumner gave an anti-slavery speech that insulted Brooks' cousin. Sumner was left unconscious and badly injured. Whoa. Well, because he gave an anti-slavery speech. Imagine, why'd you hit him? The guy's against slavery.

Oh yeah, yeah.

Did you use a weapon at least? Yeah, I used a cane. He's against slavery. What the hell do you do, just let him be against slavery? Yeah, he insulted my cousin, a slave owner.

Wow. Well, you know, America's like kind of built on gun culture, so it's sort of Seems to fit.

Well, also combat, like, thank you. It's just a little bit more. It's like violence. There's going to be a UFC on the White House lawn. Yeah, that seems like a good, safe place to be, huh? Everyone's going to know where all the world leaders are going to be. We're all going to be stuck sitting in that spot for 6 hours calling fights.

You're going to be there, right?

Super safe. I feel completely safe.

You're going to be there, right?

Yeah.

I'm going to be there.

Do you like the concept of it or no?

I do not like it.

How come, guy?

Because it's outside, and I think world championship fights should be in a controlled environment. Yeah, out of respect for the athletes and how difficult it is to compete professionally in a world title. However, yeah, I should say, however, it's gonna be a spectacle whether I was there or not. I would be watching 100%. Yeah, it's, uh, I think it's awesome that Trump— this is one of the things that I like about him.

He's like, fuck it, let's do it.

Yeah, yeah, he puts on cage fights on the White House lawn. That's nuts.

He's fearless.

Yeah, but he does wild shit. I like that.

Yeah, I like that part.

I don't like the Iran War thing, but I like that.

You don't like the concept that Iran can no longer have nuclear weapons? I think that's better than a UFC fight.

That is a good concept. However, I don't necessarily know there's a clear way to get out of this.

And if you know what we did in Afghanistan for 20 years and how much American taxpayer dollars we spent and how many people lost their lives But in Afghanistan, it felt like they were just sweeping out like goat farmers and guys hiding in caves, whereas here there's a directive where they're preventing a rebel country from having a bomb that could annihilate portions of our planet. That's true. So I think that's a much clearer and more positive agenda than wiping out guys living in the hills of Afghanistan creating opium.

That's true, if it made sense. The problem is I had Scott Horton on the podcast explaining what is actually involved in making depleted uranium and making weapons-grade and what would have to be done in order to get it to a bomb level. It's very difficult, right? It's not as simple, and they weren't nearly capable of doing that.

Not nearly, but pursuing.

It's a good question because they were being— he was also saying they were being inspected on a regular basis, and essentially this is Israel wanting us to go to this war. Israel wants that. Well, and makes sense if I was Israel. If we were America and Mexico had nukes pointed at us or whatever, it's not nukes, but you know I'm saying, like, if they did, if they were trying to build a nuke, if Mexico and America were constantly in conflict, yeah, and Mexico was trying to build a nuclear bomb, that would be a good reason where America would want to go fuck up Mexico. Like, hey, you can't have a nuclear bomb. This is Israel's position. Israel's right there with Iran. They're close enough, they're throwing missiles at each other. I get why they would want it. I just don't know if it's a good thing for America, and I don't know if there's a way out of it.

Well, I think what we have to look at is the bigger scope. If not America cleaning it up, who does it? Who has the power and the wherewithal to do it?

You know, we've used like two-thirds of our missiles doing it. Yeah, but it leaves us vulnerable if there's any other kind of a conflict. We're like underarmed right now.

I don't think we're ever underarmed when we have our Triton submarine force lurking in the oceans 24/7 and nobody knows they're there, even members of American military.

What do you know? How do you know this?

Oh, I know things, guy.

Did Billy tell you this?

Billy? Billy's dead.

Wait a minute, do you know something about these Triton submarines for real?

I sure do.

What do you know?

Well, they're circumnavigating our oceans 24/7.

How many are there?

I think there's a fleet of 12 to 24. I think it's closer to 12, but these things can stay underwater for up to a year, and most members of our American government don't even know they're there. They don't know where they are.

How much underwater jerkin' off is going on right now?

Well, think about it. One Triton submarine— Trident submarine—

has how many guys on it?

I don't know how many guys, but it has something like 24 nuclear warheads, and how many guys jerk off? And each warhead has 24 that break off. So one of these submarines could take out half the world, and we've got them going all the time. So whenever you're afraid of any little hotspot in the world, just remember that we have this going on in the ocean. A lot of people don't know about it.

I like you say this, we shit, when you're Canadian.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah.

When the shit hits the fan, Canadians like to pretend they're Americans. I like it.

I'm just not worried. Like, I'm not worried about America ever being vulnerable. It's an area It's, it's the nautical force that you don't really hear about, but if you were to look it up, there's this, there's this force out there that could take out the world.

Well, Jamie just looked it up.

Jamie, look it up.

U.S. Navy submarine force today consists of about 53 fast-track, fast-attack submarines, 14 ballistic missile submarines, and 4 guided missile submarines, all nuclear-powered. That yields a total of roughly 70 to 71 nuclear submarines in the force. Making it the world's largest nuclear submarine fleet. Why currently in the oceans is classified, except for people who talk to Harlan.

Exactly.

Harlan knows. The exact number of U.S. nuclear submarines at sea at any moment and their locations are classified for operational security. The Navy does not release real-time deployment figures. Public discussion instead uses overall force and general deployment concepts like continuous SSBN deterrent patrols rather than day-by-day counts. Okay, that makes me feel a little better.

Well, you need not worry. And that's— you didn't even tap into the tridents. The tridents are the nuclear ones that run silent, so you can't ping them.

You can't go— you can't.

That's, that's pinging. That's sonar.

What do you mean you can't use sonar?

You can't ping them. They're nuclear. They're silent. They're silent predators in the ocean.

Really?

They're huge. And I told you, one nuclear warhead splits off into 16 or 24. So one of these damn Trident submarines could put anyone in its place at any time. So don't you worry about our missiles being depleted, Mr. Joe Zachary Rogan.

Zachary? How did I get a new nickname?

I don't know. I know about submarines. I know about your middle name.

Okay, I'm gonna have to change my license. In current open sources, Trident submarines usually means US Navy Ohio-class ballistic missile submarines that carry Trident II D5 nuclear missiles, and there are 14 of these boats.

There you go.

And so these boats are just floating around ready to fuck people up. So do you think it was a good idea to go into Iran and start bombing?

I think whoever's the bad player, I think it's a good idea. If it was North Korea, Iran, Israel, Canada, Mexico, Anybody fucking up? Whoever is causing shit in the world, we don't have time for you. Let's get on, let's get in line. Let's all work together or you get a timeout. We don't, we don't have time for this anymore. We're a society of sophisticated human beings. We gotta move forward. There I am, sonar guy.

Look at you, dude.

That's, that's me on a trident.

That's what you do in your spare time?

Yeah, I ride around the world protecting things.

They dye your hair before you go under there?

Triggered an old memory when he started doing that, right?

What movie was that in?

Down Periscope.

Down Periscope.

Look at you, dog.

Yeah, but this is real, guys. So I'm just saying to you, don't ever fret.

Okay.

There's no one on earth that can threaten America.

How did 9/11 happen then?

Well, that was land-based. That was terrestrial. And that was simple planning and box cutting and hijacking. And we're talking about global warfare, nuclear war. Let's say Moscow launched and hit 7 of our cities tomorrow. Well, guess what, Moscow? Debbie 708 Trident submarine waiting just offshore for you.

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It doesn't matter. America doesn't lose is what I'm trying to tell you, my guy.

Oh, we still win when everyone's dead?

Yeah, we still win. The guy's floating around in the Indian Ocean and the Atlantic and the North Sea.

So those areas will be the new civilization.

America wins even when they lose, my guy.

Maybe that's why the aliens are under the water. Maybe they're the ones that survived.

You believe that apocalypse? Yeah, I don't know about the aliens under the water.

Tim Burchett was on this podcast.

Well, what does he know?

He said that there are 3— they say 3 bases or 5.

When your last name's bullshit— no, no, no, what is it? Oh, Burchett.

He's a very honest man.

So what did he say?

He said that there's these 3 locations— I think it's 3, see if— 3 or 5, I can't remember which one.

Hang on, let me tell you. 5.

So he said there's these spots under the ocean where regularly they have these events where things come out of the ocean.

When you say things, are we talking giant squid? Are we talking extraterrestrial?

They're talking crafts that move in a way that we can't right now. 500 miles an hour under the water. They're transmedium, meaning they can go above the ground and in the water with no— it doesn't seem like it's causing them any resistance.

Yeah.

Burchett said there are 5 underwater bases, and in some reports it's phrased as 5 or 6.

What?

The clearest reporting says he pointed to 5 areas in the U.S. waters where such bases could be. So they— there's a bunch of areas in the ocean, and if you think, like, you're gonna hide something Yeah, where you would hide it. We can't— we don't go in the ocean that much, right?

On the ocean, but we don't know the ocean. It hasn't been mapped. I think we've only mapped less than 10% of the ocean floor.

We know more about the surface of the moon than we knew— know about the bottom of the—

correct.

And so when they're— if they were here, that would be the place to hide. Just go to the deepest parts of the ocean where no one can go. Yeah, and you build bases. Because if they can travel here from another planet— yeah, James Cameron went to the bottom of the Mariana Trench. We watched a video of it.

Yeah, yeah, fascinating.

So he did that in 2012. If he can do that, for sure something that can come here from another planet can also go down there and most likely set up a base.

I'm skeptical. I'm not denying it, but I'm thinking if you're an extraterrestrial and you're coming to a planet like ours, what's the upside of going deep down into a trench that's, I think it's what, 3, 4, 5 miles deep? The Areola Trench.

Areola?

What's it called?

Areola is the thing around your tits.

Did you catch this yesterday?

Probably, maybe not.

The new Disclosure Day trailer.

I did.

So Steven Spielberg's in it.

Yeah, he's saying, first of all, bro, cut your nails. You're freaking me out.

Oh wow, he's a nose picker. Some people keep them long to get boogers. Spielberg probably likes to pull out a— crank out a greenie. Boy, picture Spielberg laying in bed at night just cranking out a greenie and eating it.

So he said that he believes that we are being visited much. I don't think he does that. He's respectful.

Look at those nails. Those are booger-picking nails.

He's just too busy to trim his nails.

I don't know, he probably could have someone trim those dirty Booger nails.

You think that's what they are?

It looks like an aye-aye almost.

What if we had like one long coke nail? What if we had like one long pinky nail?

Like an aye-aye.

Like a fucking coke nail, bro.

You ever seen an aye-aye?

Those dudes, they grow the pinky nail long to let everybody know they do coke.

Pull up an aye-aye, Jamie. What does that mean? You'll see in a second, Dr. Coke Nail.

Jesus.

A-Y-E-A-Y-E. Maybe it's that ink from the tattoo. Now show them the middle finger of the aye-aye. Zoom in.

Whoa, look at that hook.

So they have an elongated middle digit that they stick deep down into coconuts and melons. And, uh, that's a Spielberg hook right there.

That is what the fingers look like.

Look at that. That's Spielberg at night laying in his waterbed picking greenies.

I don't think he does that.

I think he does. There's one in his beard right there.

I feel bad that I brought it up.

Look, there's the hand. There's the eye.

Yeah.

Aye aye. Hmm.

And isn't it interesting, Joe, if we go full circle, if you're down in a Trident submarine and the captain says, press X572 and obliterate Iran right now, the operator would go, aye aye, sir.

I don't think they say that. Roger.

Well, the guy's name's Roger.

Why do they say Roger?

Huh?

I wonder why they say that name. Like, it's not Mike.

Roger was based off of the Jolly Roger, the flag. Is that the skull and crossbones? So the nautical term Roger came from that Jolly Roger.

Yeah, but the military uses that too. Roger that.

Right, but they adopted it from the, uh, the Navy.

Let's find out if that's true. Yeah, what is Roger— the term Roger that, where does that come from?

As I'm looking that up, do you know why pirates wear an eyepatch?

Because they cut their fucking eye off.

No.

Oh, so they could see better at distance at night under the—

under the ship because it's dark, right?

Yeah, it's for when, you know, light— when you get accustomed to darkness, the more— why does— why does having one eye closed So did they put the patch over the other eye when they go under? Yeah, at night you switch. Whoa, they switch eyes so they never have to get adjusted to the dark. Well, that's crazy.

Yes, Roger has to do with Morse code.

That is actually kind of amazing. What a smart move. You put one patch over your eye during the daytime and one patch at night, and you can always see.

Yep.

Originally stood for the letter R, which is used as shorthand for received in Morse code. Yeah, in an early radio. So saying Roger means I received your message, right? Interesting.

And it also hankers back to the skull and crossbones, the Jolly Roger. You pull that up, I don't think it does. Yeah, it is. It's a derivative of the, uh, cranial area of the, uh, the tibia. The tibia is across the cranial Jamie doesn't believe you. What the hell's going on here?

When Jamie laughs, I know something's up. What is a Jolly Roger? No, the Roger in radio talk and the Roger in Jolly Roger come from different traditions and are not historically connected. Do you think this is maybe top secret information that you know and maybe you just made a mistake by telling the whole world?

Can I answer it with, uh, boop boop boop boop boop? You've just been sonared, player.

So imagine. If there was a super sophisticated, intelligent civilization that existed way before ours, like 30,000 years ago, and then they had developed underwater travel, space travel, all that jazz, then the apocalypse comes and the only ones that survive are the Trident submarine guys that are in the ocean, right? Maybe that's why all these bases are in the ocean. Maybe they're the last remaining survivors of a super advanced civilization that existed thousands and thousands of years before, like, Mesopotamia.

But my point to you, Joe— good point, valid, valid.

Think about it.

I'm gonna play. Daddy's gonna play.

I'm not even refuting it, but I'm gonna roll it around the old Canadian dome.

Roll it around, and I'm gonna come back at you with an argument that if I'm an intelligent life force and I've got this sphere with oceans and land Why do I want to make life harder for myself? Do you know the pressure that you're at 3 miles down in the ocean? The amount of pressure that comes— look what happened to that little, that little submarine that popped about 3 years ago, right? So why do you want to live in an environment where you have so much pressure when you could simply land on the terrestrial plane and live pressure-free?

Because if they are insanely advanced, one of the things that's proposed is that they have some sort of a gravity bubble. and this is how they move through space, and this is how they don't use propulsion, that they essentially—

they just frictionless through space.

Exactly. That's why these crafts act as transmedium crafts. When these crafts are flying and they go into the ocean, the ocean rather, there's virtually no splash, huh? And they're moving 500 miles an hour.

Frictionless.

Exactly. They're not, they're not existing in the same space-time as we are. They have a bubble, and this bubble completely distorts everything around.

So you're saying if they descended into the depths of our ocean, they won't experience the pressure.

Exactly.

Because the bubble—

exactly—

is forcing off the pressure. Exactly. Interesting. But still, okay, what is your purpose for going underwater when you could just land on the surface of the Earth?

Well, maybe they're observing— maybe they're observing us and making sure that we don't fuck things up.

But how can they observe us if they're 3 miles underwater?

Well, they come out of the water, Harlan. That's the whole reason why they know they're there, because they keep experiencing seeing these crafts that are rising out of the water in these very specific locations. Yeah, you seem like a disinformation agent from the government or something.

I am, I am.

It seems like it.

I am.

You should work out on being a little more stealthy.

What do you mean?

Because it's very obvious to me that you're what the kids call controlled opposition.

Well, that could be me counterintuitively pre-programming you to think sideways.

What would be the benefit of that? I'm not experiencing these ways of espionage.

What's the benefit of living a mile down in the ocean in the Arioli Rift?

I think this whole— the whole reason they're in the ocean is because that's where we won't find them. Like, if you wanted to watch, like, a civilization— if we went to another planet, okay, let's say this.

We—

let's say we go to another planet, we find people that are living like cave people. They're killing each other with spears. They're, you know, robbing and raiding villages. If we wanted to just observe and we had the ability to observe from the sky, motionless, with no sound at all, and just watch them, don't you think we would do that? Yeah, we wouldn't interfere. We would want to know as much about them as we could, right? Every now and then when one of them was going to get watered, we fucking dart them with a tranquilizer dart, check their DNA, take some jizz, and then leave them there, just like they do to us. We would do the exact same stuff if we could do it. If we were just a little more advanced than we are now, so not, you know, millions of years in advance, which we think maybe possibly some civilizations are, but maybe 100 years or 1,000 years, and we found a planet and that planet had cave people on it, 100% we would do most of the things that these aliens are doing. If we had a way where we could dart them and tranquilize them and they'd have no idea that we did it and they would just wake up in the jungle confused We would do it if we did medical tests on them.

We could take them, bring them to a secure medical facility that we had, maybe in a helicopter or some sort of a spaceship that we've created, and we run some tests on them, take some sperm, take some skin samples, do a fucking CAT scan on them, whatever, and then put them back in the jungle. We would do it.

But wait, this isn't Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom. We're not wildebeest. We're not SEALs. Like, clearly they share some of the intelligence we have. They're masters of aeronautics. We've mastered aeronautics in our physical plane. So what's with all the mystery? Like, if they can communicate and they can talk and they can build, we're too— as we can, it's not like—

no, we're too primitive.

Why don't they just— how do you know that?

Because if something—

why don't they just go, hey, let's go, let's go chat to the idiots. No, if we're that dumb, at least we could communicate.

I think you have—

our fighter jets fly with their— our fighter jets track them, we lock onto them.

No, they don't.

So we're sharing aeronautical intelligence.

No, no, no, they're not sharing. Joseph, they're trying to find them and then they dart away, right, and move in ways that we can't explain.

We see them, we track them, we share the same airspace, we're both flying. I don't know why I'm getting so fired up.

Yeah, but still, dude, if we went to another planet and found Australopithecus, we found an early human, you know, one of the early primates. Okay, 100%, we would dart it. 100%, we would tranquilize it, we would run tests on it, we would want to know about it. 100%.

Okay, you're talking about a Neanderthal, right?

That's what we are to them. But let's say little grays with the big heads and they communicate telepathically and they could fly here instantaneously from other solar systems. We might as well be the ape people.

But why the evasion? Like, if you saw Homo picatus or whatever it's called—

Australopithecus—

holding up a cell phone, would you still go, "Let's dart it and probe it and let it go"? Why wouldn't you just go, "Hey, that monkey's got a cell phone. Let's go talk to it. We can talk. We have cell phones." Like, why the mysterious distance? Like, if they're in the ocean and they know we're intelligent beings, why not just come up and say, "Hey, anyone wanna go snorkeling?" I think Australopithecus with a spear is about as intelligent to us as we are to them. But if they have an evolved language and they have communities and a civilization, isn't that enough for us to just walk into camp and go, "Hey guys!" I mean, they did it with with, uh, you know, tribes that live in the Amazon. Who's that guy? Who's the guy they boiled in the pot? That famous saying, uh, what's that famous— oh, I can't think of it right now. Uh, but anyways, we wandered into, into the Amazon and walked right up to like weird Amazon tribal people. It's not like we hid and tried to hide from them.

Yeah, but they didn't know those people were even there, right?

But when they found them, they integrated. They approached them. They go, hey, this is a t-shirt, this is a camera.

Yeah, but those are human beings that are the exact same kind of human beings as the people that were visiting them. They're not different species. Still no.

So if you, Joe Rogan, were out in a field one day and you saw a new species of like people jumping around, having a picnic, sharing a salami. Would you just hide behind a log and watch them, or would you go, hey, uh, who are you? What are you?

Well, you're not even allowed to contact uncontacted people.

Say that again.

You're not allowed to contact— like North Sentinel Island, that island in the middle of the Indian Ocean where that, uh, preacher went and got killed because he was trying to bring them Bibles.

Right.

You're not allowed to contact uncontacted tribes.

Uh, is that like all of them?

Most of them.

I don't think so.

Indian Ocean, they, they, they have that North Sentinel Island protected. And you know, there's people that discourage people from contacting people in the Amazon. There's several uncontacted tribes in the Amazon.

I wish they'd stay that way. Yeah.

Stay uncontacted.

Well, I don't want to see a beautiful like Pygmy or someone from an Amazonian tribe wearing an Adidas shirt.

Why not?

Or a Hooters shirt. Hooters shirt.

Hooters would be funny.

No, that'd be funny. I want to see them wearing like kook kook feathers and, uh, you know, no, pick bones. I want to see— leave them alone—

spearfishing with a Bucky's hat on.

Oh, Joe, come on, guy. No, no, see that?

Why not?

Well, then that's why the aliens under the ocean are staying away from us. They don't want to be corrupted by our ridiculous society of Hooters and Cracker Barrels.

Okay. If you were in the Amazon, wouldn't you want a t-shirt?

If I was a—

if you were walking through the Amazon, you, Harlan Williams, yeah, the third, right now alive in 2026. If you were in the Amazon and I said, would you like to wear a t-shirt while you're walking through the Amazon?

Yeah.

What would you say?

As a white North American male? Yeah, I'd say definitely.

And they want one too. It's better than no t-shirt.

No, it's not.

Little bitch.

There's a tribe of 5 people and one of them has a shirt.

Now I'm just gonna say, yeah, I hate that.

Look, he's got flip-flops.

That guy The right is horrible. That is the baller of the fucking neighborhood. That's the guy that pulls up in the '65 Chevelle and everybody's like, look at him with his flip-flops.

I think that's that guy who wrote Margaritaville. What was his name? That's Jimmy Buffett. Forgot. Yeah, what's it called? Isn't that him? I think that's him.

Uh, wasted away again. Well, we'll get dinged on YouTube for that, Jamie.

You guys are getting way too close.

Yeah.

You know, you get dinged.

Oh, you can't sing?

They take away your fucking advertising revenue if you hum a song.

Okay.

These dirty criminals.

Wow.

Hum. Hum a song. You dirty scumbags trying to steal advertising money.

What if we mess with them and hum a tune and sort of play name that tune with them?

You know what they'll do? They'll fucking ding you.

Even if they can't figure it out. Like they've got to sit around in the office and like, they'll pretend, then you have to go to court. Name that tune in 7 notes. And I'm like, mm, mm.

Don't do it. Don't do it.

Do you know what I just did?

You fucked us up.

Do you know what song that was?

I don't care.

I do.

What is it?

It was that Pink Floyd song.

No, no, no. Don't say that because then they'll get us.

Yeah, but they don't know which one.

Doesn't matter.

And they can't prove it.

They don't have, that's what you don't understand. They don't have to prove it.

Of it.

Oh, all they have to do is make a claim, huh? And then you have to fight it and you'll lose.

You're Joe Rogan though. They're not gonna mess with you, guy.

Oh, you're so incorrect.

By the way, dude, you are jacked.

I work out.

Can we get your shirt off?

No.

How come? Joe, don't be selfish. I want you to— would you please take your shirt off?

For what reason?

Because you have a beautiful body, okay? And you work so hard at it, and no one gets to see it. And you know you want people to see it, but you can't do it. You can't go, well, I'm Joe Rogan, I crafted this body. But if I ask you to, you get to show it off.

I don't really want to show it off. That's why I wear clothes.

You do though.

But I don't.

It's like if you did this podcast but didn't put it out What's the point?

I don't think that's the same thing.

I would love it if you showed your beautiful body. Okay, I love it. Oh yeah, Joe, dude, can we stand? No, that's enough, dude.

Look at that, I have muscles.

Can we talk about— before you put the shirt on, can we talk about it? We want to talk about how you do that.

I work out. You could do it too. Well, do you work out?

Yeah.

How often?

Do you really want to get into this?

Sure.

You do? Yeah.

How often do you work out?

Because I'm about to crack an egg open on your show that I don't think anyone's ever talked about.

How often do you work out?

A lot.

Yeah? What are you doing these days?

Okay. You want to get into this?

Sure.

Here we go. Here we go, Joseph Zachary Rogan. I'm— I don't want to get in trouble, but I'm working out. By the way, beautiful body. Your chest is stunning. See, I'm glad you did that.

It doesn't even make me uncomfortable that you say that. Like, some men, I would be like, this is odd.

No, no, I'm not a fly guy.

What does that mean?

Like homosexual. I'm straight as they come, but I believe in holding up people's hard work. And that didn't just come from sitting around eating Pringles and Baskin-Robbins. You worked your ass off. You deserve to show it, and you never could because it's you. And now I get to help celebrate you, and all your fans got to see all that hard work, and I love it, guy. Okay, but I'm straight as a Chinese truck driver.

Chinese truck drivers are never gay?

Never.

That part of the job? Yeah, they're seriously— how many dudes are jerking off under the ocean?

How many guys are jerking off to you just taking your shirt off?

A couple. But how many guys are jerking off to me taking my shirt off while they're under the ocean?

Let me check.

If you got 14 subs, how many people on each sub? How many men are on each sub?

It might not be known.

Let's take a guess.

They keep it very secret.

If you had to guess how many people are on each sub, I'm going to say—

Joe, a thousand?

A lot more than that. Really?

On the Trident? The Trident are like floating cities.

The number it gave me might be including all submarines including like every government, not just ours.

Okay, but how many— how many people are on each submarine? How many like could one of those submarines hold?

A small one is 30 to 70.

I'll show you a small one.

Yeah, large one is 120 to 140.

Wow.

Mmm, seems about it. Big, 160 maybe.

And there's 14 of them, so there's at least 1,000 dudes underwater right now.

It's It said there's 40,000 to 70,000.

40,000 to 70,000 guys under the water? Yeah.

Yeah. Whoa. So don't worry about United States taking a hit, my guys.

This is crazy.

Miss Wild.

That's a crazy statistic, man.

Are you glad I dropped by today?

I'm always glad when you drop by, but this is crazy. 40,000 to 70,000 people are underwater in submarines at any given moment with huge uncertainty. Why? We can only estimate. No Navy or company publishes a live count of how many submarines are deployed right now or how many crew aboard each one, and how many deployments are classified. Civilian research and tourism subs are also not tracked in a global real-time way. Wow.

Wow.

That's crazy. So that could be a whole new civilization. So if they blow up the Earth, but how many chicks?

Well, that's the thing. The ratio is probably not good.

The ratio is probably nonexistent. How many chicks are in these subs?

That's classified.

Are they— do they have girls that serve in these subs?

There's, there's girls submariners.

What is the number? It's like 10 to 1.

And worse, what do they look like?

But I bet they're the fucking cream of the crop underwater because the pressure squeezes in all the cellulite. No, no, there's no other girls.

Oh, they're like, oh yeah, you got— you get what you get.

Yeah, yeah, no competition. Like how many ladies? Let's take a guess at how many ladies are underwater at any given time. 20?

Yeah.

10%. 10%. Women are likely well under 10% of submarines worldwide.

Yeah.

With higher percentages in a few navies such as U.S. and some NATO allies. Those are the ones that are in trouble.

There's 609 assigned to submarines in the U.S. in 2023.

Wow. 609 women get— getting how many dudes hitting on them?

Yeah.

It must be hell. Be underwater with a guy who's annoying you and you can't get away from him.

Can't get away. He's farting. Oh, underwater sex.

Underwater farts must be horrible.

But let's—

what do they do with the shit?

They don't come up sometimes for months.

Oh yeah, the tridents go out for, I think, a year almost.

And so what do they do with their shit?

They just eject it. They eject it into the sea. They're not doing anything a whale isn't doing.

But do they eject it into the sea?

They have to. I mean, they can't make meatloaf.

Can you imagine if like during that process somehow or another it got clogged up? Yeah. Because somebody used too much toilet paper and the sub sinks? Yeah.

A fatty.

Because Javier just took a giant dump.

They might melt it.

Melt it?

They can rise up too. Don't forget they can breathe.

Throw it into the nuclear pit where the engine is.

Yes, they manage trash by compacting, melting, or jettisoning it. To avoid detect—

Okay, that's trash. What about poop?

Well, I'd say—

Did you ask about poop?

Yeah.

Let's ask about poop just specifically, because waste could mean, you know, paper cups.

It's the same thing though. I would also go now, if you were jettisoning your poop everywhere, you might want to have detectors for human waste in the water, and you might start figuring out where the submarines are.

Maybe you don't want to do that.

He's operating on another level.

Yeah, that was something like that in the '40s probably.

This is a dude that's in the conspiracies. Jamie, he operates on other levels.

Tracking.

Do you know that term can neither confirm nor deny came from a Russian submarine that was sunk that we were pulling out of the ocean? And there was— and they had to— they got questioned about it and they said, are, are we in possession of this Russian sub? Are we pulling it out of the ground? And they said we can neither confirm nor deny because they had to answer.

Huh.

So that is an answer without an answer. That's like neither confirm nor deny.

That's akin to saying pleading the Fifth, sort of, but it's—

you actually are answering. You can neither confirm nor deny.

That's like saying, I'm— what do you do for a living? I'm in heating and air conditioning.

No, because that's a very specific trade.

Well, they kind of counteract each other. What do you do? I'm in shipping and receiving. Are you sure? I can neither confirm nor deny. I mean, this is an avoidance, uh, problem that— but I want to talk to you about my workout regime.

Okay.

Because you asked.

I did ask.

I'm doing something so advanced. Uh, you do the ice baths, right? You, you soak in them.

Yep.

So I'm doing something so extensive that I'm exercising myself into a new race.

What are you becoming?

And no one said this before on your podcast, I don't think, but I'm working out so hard to become a new race. And two words: Gara Rafa. You take your ice baths. Gara Rafa, my guy.

What is that?

Jamie, look it up and do it quick, you whore. I mean, do it quick.

Garra ruffa?

Look it up.

You becoming a fish?

Oh, that's not any fish. The garra ruffa, people submerge their legs and feet into the tanks. And the garra ruffa have vibrating lips, Joe. And they eat skin cells. Picture this underwater.

So those are the ones like when you go into Thailand and ladies dump their legs into a fish pond, right?

Vibrating lips.

Clean your toes off, Joe. Mm-hmm. And how are you working out to become one of those?

So, well, you're taking your ice baths. Yeah, I'm submerging my whole body, my lower extremities into one of these tanks. These fish are sculpting my body, my lower extremities. And have you ever heard of malaria pills?

Yes.

So while everyone else is popping Ozempic and doing everything else, I've been on malaria pills for 4 years. And these things can flip your blood platelets. Okay, that's the power of malaria pills. They can actually change your red blood cell count and your white blood cell count. It's powerful medicine. Okay, so with the use of my malaria pills and the Garra rufas— and I don't know if you want to see the results, but my legs are hammerjacked right now.

Let's see them. Let's see.

My legs are—

I took my shirt Take your pants off.

Okay.

Come on.

Okay, are you sure?

Yeah, yeah.

And before I do it, I'm going into a new race and I don't want anyone to accuse me of doing blackleg.

Notice he has baggy pants on.

I don't know if you've ever seen— Take your pants off. The fastest man in the world is who?

Usain Bolt.

Usain Bolt. The biggest high jumper in the world is a black man. The longest long jumper is a black man. The highest vertical jumper is a black man. And this isn't racist. This isn't blackleg, but this is me.

What are you doing?

Working out into a new race. And I'm proud of this.

Pull your pants off.

I wouldn't be laughing if I were you. These legs are jacked. Look at these legs.

Why are they a different color?

Well, I told you, I'm working out into another race.

Fucking serious leg muscles, man. Yeah, where'd you get those leg muscles?

I told you.

What's going on with your underwear? That's kind of crazy.

What do you mean? What is my underwear?

What kind— what the fuck do you have on your legs?

Dude, I told you I'm working out right into another race.

Are those your real legs?

Yeah.

That's very impressive. You don't have like silicone over them or anything? Those are actual leg muscles? No, no.

Wait a minute, why is—

Giant leg muscles.

Why is it you can take your shirt off and I don't— I compliment you.

But it's like your legs don't match up with the rest of your body.

Because the color's off.

No, the muscles are crazy. Stand up again. Yeah. Those muscles are insane. Yeah, look at these. Are those real?

Well, what—

Tell me the truth. They look like plastic.

What are you talking about?

It looks like you're wearing something.

Jib, come on.

Jamie, those are the most insane legs I've ever seen in my life, right?

Right?

If that was a guy weighing in at a UFC fight, that would make sense. But—

It would go viral.

Two words. Gara Ruffa.

Where'd you get those legs?

Dude, I sink them—

So if I sit in the tank, I'll get legs like that?

Well, are you taking malaria pills?

Oh, no.

You do my combo.

Do you want to stand up?

Let me see the pants. I mean, and look at the skin difference. I'm not—

take your shirt off so I can see where the skin changes color.

I— excuse me?

I want to see where the skin changes color.

If you take your shirt off again, I will.

But I just did.

But I want to do it together.

Okay. Do it together.

You son of a bitch. You son of a bitch. You. Rogan. What have you done to me? What?

Where did you get those fucking pants? Don't pull in there. Don't pull in there. A gourd.

The only thing I could fit in there was a gourd.

Oh my God, Joe. When I first saw your legs, I was like, what the fuck is going on? How does he have legs like that?

I know, sterilizing You got some baggy pants on.

I know, Jamie noticed that about the pants. It's real weird. Where the fuck did you get those pants?

Dude. Why can't I look good?

You look great.

God.

Like, you could wear those, like, to a pool, like a public pool, and the ladies would definitely be checking you out.

Yeah.

They'd be like, look at his gourd.

Can I leave the gourd with Dimitri? Can we add to the collection?

I'm gonna have people smell it. I'm gonna tell them, smell that. And then like, that was in Harlan Williams' pants, dude. Not even in his pants, it was like rubbing up against his cock. I'm gonna leave that there for people to smell.

Yeah, yeah.

Next time someone comes in, like, what's all this stuff here?

Grab it first.

I'm like, smell that.

Can I pull my pants up?

You put— yeah, sure.

Feels weird sitting here with my pants down.

Well, you are wearing pants. You're wearing rubber pants. Well, rubber muscle pants. Come on, don't you want legs like that for real? Joe, wouldn't that be awesome?

That's like me saying, don't you want a chest like that for real? You're hairier than I thought.

Really?

Are you part Armenian? Are you?

No.

No.

Great. Hang on, I gotta pull my pants up.

Gourd back in.

There we go.

Ah, fuck! Ah, blur that. I don't know. Do we have to blur it?

I don't know.

No, it's a gourd and you're worried about a song getting dinged. Oh my God. Silly motherfucker.

Joe.

Oh my God. Do you know how— I'm crying.

Do you know how moist my balls are right now? Yeah, how bad that gourd must smell. Joe.

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But I am proud of you because— oh my God, I'm proud of you that you took your shirt off because I'm not joking, you worked so hard for that.

Thank you.

And you could never show it. You had to have a conduit. You had to have someone invite you to do it so it didn't look self-centered or conceited. You deserve to show that hard work to the world.

Thank you.

Good for you.

Thank you.

And you look great.

Thank you very much.

You're welcome. I love it, and I hope it's an inspiration to people watching to want to be as physically fit and put together. That's great, right?

Sure.

I feel like— remember when you were a kid, they had those books where you take half a body and half a body and remember their little kids books and you fold them over. I feel like if we took your upper part and put it on my lower part, we'd have the immaculate human being and then those fart bubbles from the bottom of the ocean wouldn't have trouble coming around.

Yeah.

You look like me and Joe Zachary Rogan, those fart bubbles from the areolae drench will come up and Suck us a dirty lasagna! Gah! Sorry, I get excited, Joe.

Maybe it's the, like, forever chemicals leaking through the rubber underwear you're wearing.

They're not underwear, how dare you! Those are my legs!

You should take them off because you're sweating. That's leaching into your blood right now. All the BPAs.

God, I don't want to die. But you know what's interesting? My legs are bronze, and we don't talk about the bronze people. We always talk about white and black. Mm-hmm. What about the bronzes? Mm-hmm. The Incas, the Mayas. I mean, these people and the legs on them. Did you ever see Apocalypto? Mm-hmm. And I don't know if this is in any history books anywhere, but those bronzes could motor.

Yeah, true.

So I've got legs where if I'm being chased, if a rapist is coming after me, I'm outta here. There's 3 men in this room, 2 of you are getting raped, not me.

Wow.

Yeah. I mean, these legs, I could jump over, uh, Dolly Parton's gazebo. By the way, speaking of areolae, have you seen hers?

I haven't.

They're the size of lily pads.

How do you know?

I had a one-nighter with her about 3 weeks ago.

A one-night show?

A one-night stand. We were jackhammering all night. Picked her up at a bar in Malibu. Hammer jackhammering.

I don't think it was really Dolly Parton.

It was. It was Parton.

I don't think she goes out.

Oh, she was that night.

You sure it wasn't a lady wearing a mask?

Dude, it was her. And her areolas are the size of lily pads. I'm not kidding. I woke up in the morning, there were two bullfrogs sitting on her tits. Why are you looking at me like that?

She's kind of old. To be fucking.

Not for me. Have you seen my legs?

Also, she's a very respected lady. I think it's very rude.

80 years old.

80.

Very rude the way you're talking about her.

Well, it's because I said effing. We made love.

Oh, okay. I feel better now.

We made love and her areolas are the size of lily pads. I feel a lot better now. Yeah. Sorry. I didn't mean to.

Yeah.

I should keep it classy.

Do you like them big? The big areolas?

I like a big areola. Reminds me of a pancake.

Yeah.

Like sometimes I'll put a dollop of butter on it.

It's a robust woman.

Yeah.

Like it's a lot going on there. There's big areolas.

Yeah. And the dark ones. And they're great to take with you camping. If you ever have a rubber raft and you get a hole in it, you can rip one off and patch it.

Oh, Jesus.

Yeah.

That's not what I was thinking.

Well, you don't camp much.

Just bring a patch.

Yeah, but if you don't have one, you can rip off a dirty areola.

That you're hoping you're going to get out of the woods.

Well, if you can't, and you're with a chick, you got an areola.

Lose her areola forever just because you forgot to bring a patch?

Yeah, but it's— what do you want, one areola less so you have your life back?

Plus, if she's 80, those don't heal that good. She could die from infection.

It's about living. It's not about having an areola. You want to get out of the woods or not, uh, One Titty Jackson? Whatever her name is.

Okay. Tough love.

Speaking of sex, have you been on this OnlyFans thing? Have you gone on?

No, I don't go on.

It's all I'm hearing about. You hear, right? All you hear about now is OnlyFans.com.

Yep. They do comedy shows.

I finally go on this thing because it's all I'm hearing about. OnlyFans.com. I go on about a week ago and I'm on there for about 2 hours. And it's just video after video after picture. And I'm on there so long, my eyes are like, right, spinning. And finally I stopped the damn thing and I'm like, screw this, I already have central air conditioning, why the hell am I looking at this site? I don't need a fan. I mean, good lord. I'll pull my legs out. I will pull my dirty bronze legs out and wrap them around your neck like a dirty anaconda.

The fuck is wrong with you? Do you think if you're a woman, you'd be doing OnlyFans?

You know, it's an interesting question. It's a moral dilemma, isn't it?

Let's imagine if Harlan was a female and Harlan was 21 and just got here from Canada.

With these legs?

With those legs. And not a lot of them. Not a lot of ways to make a living, but you're cute.

Desperate times call for desperate matters, Joe Rogan.

Hmm.

You know, it's, it's a delay. It's a serious question and it's almost a sad one in today's world. It is because in the old days you had your sex industry sort of confined to the shadows.

Mm-hmm.

And now anyone's daughter, cousin, niece, nephew, that they can suddenly be exposed to the world in the most promiscuous way, but in the most profitable way.

That's the problem, is also you get addicted to the money. Let's imagine, let's imagine you're a lady, ah, and you have a site and you show your feet and stick things inside your butt or whatever you do, and you're making—

what was that last part?

Stick stuff inside your butt?

If you're a lady? Yeah, like what?

Some ladies, they put like dildos in there and stuff.

Okay, have you ever seen that?

No, but I'm just assuming it happens. Doesn't that happen, Jamie? Sure, sure.

You've never seen a lady do that?

I'm pure as driven snow, sir.

Joe, not real life. You haven't?

No. Stick a rubber dick inside their butthole? I don't want to be there for that.

Why not?

I'm, I'm not interested.

You ever been through a car wash?

I have.

What's the difference?

It's a big difference. One of them is your butt where you shit out of and you're putting a rubber dick inside, or the other one is you get in your car washed.

You make a good point.

Point is, my— if you were making— yeah, if you're doing all this and you developed a nice fan base, you're making $100,000 a month, $300,000 a month. Yeah. And then you don't feel good about yourself, and what do you do? Do you just save up the money and quit? How you— if you meet a nice guy and he's like, "So what do you do for a living?" You're like, "Well, let me tell you. I don't want to do it anymore, but I take rubber dicks and I oil my butthole up and I shove them in there with a, you know, HD camera a few inches from my butthole.

The guy send me tips." I think the subtext here, Joe, is what is the price you put on your dignity?

Right.

What is the price you put on your spirit? Because this stuff, it may seem fun in the moment, but you get down the road and it follows you.

You know, we looked it up. Yeah. It's something crazy. Like 10% of girls aged 18 to 24 in the United States are on OnlyFans.

Ah, this is a, this is a tough question. And you can tell me to shut up if you want.

Okay.

You have a daughter, don't you?

I have 3 daughters.

You have 3 daughters. I have 4 sisters. If one of your daughters— I would not like that. —told you she was doing OnlyFans, what would your reaction be?

I think I made a big failure as a parent.

But how would you approach it with said daughter?

Well, you would give them advice. First of all, your daughter or your son or any— is a human being. You don't own them.

Right. Good point.

So you're supposed to be—

touchy point, but good point.

If you treat them like you own them and they have to listen to you, they'll never listen to you and they're gonna rebel. This is just human nature.

Excellent point. I'm with you so far.

You have to give them advice and you have to talk to them and talk to them about the repercussions of what they're doing and realize that this stuff will follow you. And some people are gonna be fine with that. Look, there's some ladies that are like, look, I don't ever want a fucking regular job. I'm not— I'm ashamed of my body. And maybe they're not sticking things up their butt. Maybe they're just being naked. And they're like, this is way better than having a job. Fine. What does it say here? Top 1%. Top earners make about $18,000 to $49,000 per year.

Whoa, that's it? That's not much. I could work at Denny's for that.

What? So the top 0.1% make $100,000 per month or $1.2 million annual. That's the top 0.1%. But the top 1% only make $18,000 to $49,000 a year. So you imagine you're making $18,000 or $49,000 a year. You're still living in poverty. If you're making $18,000 a year, you're poor, and you are showing your pussy, and you're— no one's paying for it.

Yeah, wait a minute, but Joe, I know that you— look at that— you have a bit of a rage side. Like, Joe knows how to rage because you're a fighter. You know how to go into that red zone. You're an— you can be an intimidating force. Is there a world where your daughter says, Daddy, I'm doing this, and Joe just goes You're fucking not. Like, is it— do you go into the red zone or— that's not gonna—

if you do that with your kids, they're not gonna listen to you.

But what if you did it just because of the reaction where you were so mad or disappointed?

I would only be that mad if someone was doing something terrible to them. Okay.

Or, you know, you're a good dad. Well, you have to— I like, I like what I'm hearing here. You have to, you have to be a human.

Yeah, you're, you're their parent, but you also, you gotta understand human nature. I know people that yell at their kids, and I know kids that have been yelled at, and they always resent that. They, they, they're always angry. It's a, it's a stupid way to handle things.

Something happened here just now that I was not expecting today. What's that? I got to see a side of you that I didn't know if it was there or not, because I don't know your family life, but I got to feel for a second dad vibes, dad love. And I think I sort of pictured you sitting with your daughter and being very reasonable and loving.

Well, hopefully I'd never have to have that conversation.

I hope so too. But I see you as an understanding, nurturing dad in that moment. I love that. I try to be.

Yeah. That's the goal. I mean, if you want to have a relationship with your kids and, you know, my daughters are teenagers now too, and we've never gone through a period where you always hear these periods where the kids rebel against you and they hate you. Yeah, teenagers, that's never happened. And I think it's probably never happened because we always just communicate and I try to be as reasonable, open-minded as possible. That's what I can feel. You got to be very supportive too. Yeah, it's hard to be a kid, man. It's even harder to be today than ever before because of social media and all the pressures that they face. And, and then also this weird world that they're entering into where AI might be taking all the jobs. So they're like, what the fuck am I going to do? What am I going to do with my life? I love AI. Do you?

You're all in? I'm all in. What's your favorite part about it? I love it, Joe, because it's, it's opening a door to creativity for everybody. Now, a lot of people are being pessimistic and saying it's taking away our creativity. But think about any art gallery you've ever been to. You go in, you see the Renoir, the Degas, the Dalí, all the, all the usual suspects. Van Gogh, Goya, all of them, right? Right. Those have all been placed there over the centuries as the art that we all know and have adopted. And that came from a select group of individuals, very talented, um, contributed to our culture and art history. But it's a pool of about maybe 200 artists through the course of history. Right. Now think about a guy you bumped into working in the sprinkler aisle at Home Depot 3 weeks ago who's got a wife and kids and maybe doesn't have the opportunity or the wherewithal to tap into his artistry. But now that guy and the guy at Dunkin' Donuts and the girl that works at the car wash and Every human being now has a way to express their hidden talents.

And so with AI, they can go home at the end of the night and press a few buttons and go, I imagined this thing and AI is letting me get it out and the world gets to see it. Same with medicine, same with inventions. How many Elon Musks are there that grew up in poverty and never got the chance to expand on a concept or an idea because they didn't have the means. But if AI starts to open these doors for every human being, think of the barrage of incredible visual and conceptual designs that are going to come at us. And a lot of them will probably be practical and actually work. And the common man and woman didn't have access to that before.

That's one way of looking at it. That's positive. I love it. That's true.

Example in my own life, I come from the animation world and I like to write. And a few years back I pitched an animation idea around Hollywood and it got rejected. And so now me and a few of my friends in the dawn of AI are creating the same thing that got rejected and we're gonna put it out into the world. We couldn't have done it 2, 3 years ago. It would've cost us $3 million. Now we're doing it for a few thousand. And it looks like a Pixar movie. It looks like Pixar. So if you tell me that AI isn't opening a whole new world, it, it, it's not true. It is. It's letting all of us dig really deep and expose our gifts and our talents. And yeah, there's always the downside, but let's try and look at the good side of it too.

I like what you're saying. Thank you, Joe. Um, the, the downside is the people that don't want to be creative and they want to be accountants or they want to be lawyers, they want to like those jobs.

Stop! Stop? How about that accountant's an accountant because he can never tap into the artistry that hides within him, or the lawyer. Perhaps. But now after hitting the machines all day, he can go home and go, you know what, I never could have done this before, but I'm gonna create an image, a painting, a drawing in 10 minutes that I've always wanted to show the world. So that's what I'm saying. Even those pessimists can now throw off the demons on their back that are inhibiting them, and it's going to allow all of us to be so much more expressive. Okay, that's my take. Well, hopefully.

I mean, that's the question, like, what do people do if there's no more jobs and you just get money from the government because AI creates so, so many, so much abundant resource that no one has to work anymore? Are you going to find things to do? That are interesting. And maybe AI is going to help you do that.

I'll tell you this, Joe, in probably 7 or 8 years, I bet we're sitting here, me and you, going, remember AI? Because we're humans, man, we don't stop. People think AI is going to be the end of the line. It's just another stepping stone to our progression to where we're meant to go. You believe in higher forces, I know that. Mm-hmm. So this is just one of the steps. Remember when people thought, I'm not getting a cell phone, I'm not getting on the internet, I don't want a fax machine, but we just keep going. We're humans. We keep going up those stairs. We're adventurers. We're curious. We never stop. And so AI is just another small thing. As big as it seems now, as robust as it seems, it's just a small step in the giant ladder that's leading this weird species that we are to a bigger, higher, distant place. Hmm, look at you, dude.

You should do a seminar.

I should show my legs again.

You should tell everybody all these thoughts you have.

Well, I'm telling right now. We're sharing them. Yeah. But don't you think all these things we come up with are leading to something where we're meant to go? Yes. I don't think we're all just here randomly and wars and fighting and this. I think it's all— we're the worker ants right now, and we're the platform for the future worker ants to get to the pinnacle that we don't even know what it is yet. And maybe there is no pinnacle, but whatever force created us, Joe, they want us to keep going. That's why we search the oceans and the space and the moon and the planets. We're going to keep going. Yep. And AI is a tool for us to get there. So You can be pessimistic, you can be like, oh, AI, you know, but why don't you just spend your time looking at the positive side of things?

I agree with you about the direction that we're going. I think that's what we're meant to do. Yeah. Yeah. I just think that we are in a time of insane change and that makes people scared. It does.

Yeah. But you know, being scared almost may also makes us feel alive. Think about the most vibrant moments in your life.

How about after 9/11?

Remember those days? Oh yeah, people, people, it's like someone kicked the ant nest open and we were all scurrying around looking for the eggs. The ants always preserve the eggs. Yeah. But those eggs were our lives and our neighbors. We were talking and communicating.

We were friendly with each other.

That's right. Yeah, we realized the importance of, of a communal existence. Mm-hmm. We realize the importance of needing each other.

Yeah, people get very complacent and they need to be shook up every now and then. Yeah, it's very good for you.

And maybe AI, if there's one downside to it, it could maybe create a bigger cocoon for us because we'll have so much at our fingertips. It may isolate us even more. Maybe. But, but we have to look beyond all these weird parameters we set and go, what, what's the upside? What's it doing for us?

Well, it's inevitable and it's going to happen no matter what. And I think people always figure out a way to be okay. Yeah. And I think that's going to happen and there's going to be a time of great upheaval and it's going to change a lot. But hopefully people will be all right and they're going to have to adapt and learn and grow. And we always have. And we always have. And we always will. And most likely it'll be better for everybody overall. This idea that Elon keeps pushing is universal high income. Is that people will have plenty of money, abundant resources, and there's not going to be a problem of food, shelter, medical, education. All that stuff's going to go away because of AI. And the real problem would be, what do you decide to do with your life? What do you decide to do with your time? Right. But you'll have the freedom to do whatever you want with your time. Just think about how little crime there's going to be if there's abundant resources and no one has to steal anymore. No more stealing, no more robbing, and no more poverty. Literally no more poverty.

I don't know if that's possible, or if it is in 50 years or 100 years, but no more poverty is wild.

No more poverty is a reality. Criminality, I think you have to remember, there's people who don't engage in criminality to make money. They engage in criminality as a passion. A lot of criminals like the process. They like the game playing. They like the herd and the, and the chess moves. They, they like winning. They like deceiving, right? They like drug dealing, right?

So they're gonna big deal and a submarine shows up in San Diego, pull the fucking coke bags out, right? Or them in the back of a Mercedes. Yeah, you'll listen to the Miami Vice.

Yeah, or there's even the, the adversarial component where they like the idea of killing their competition. Yeah, it's a war. So I don't think we'll ever transcend, you know, the criminal element of it? We could. We could.

If we never know, though, if AI develops to the point where we have literal telepathy, we could read each other's minds. You won't be able to plot any kind of crimes like that anymore.

Or, and this is because I think it never ends, does AI design something to help us plot? You know what I mean?

Maybe just If you're a criminal, it just puts you in a simulation where you're allowed to do like Grand Theft Auto, but in real life. Yeah. You know, you just lock in, whoop, and all of a sudden you're in the streets of Chicago. Yeah. And you're running down the street with a gun, you shoot a guy and take his Mercedes and brrr. And you're just having a good time. But then you come right back to real life. And it's fine. Everything's fine.

Yeah. It's, this is what I like that it's so endless and it's gonna take so many twists and turns.

Well, then there's the question is, has that already happened? Are we in a simulation right now?

Oh yeah, I think we talked about this last time.

A lot of people think we are. I don't believe so. A lot of people smarter than me.

But can I take you back a second?

Take me back to the old days.

Exactly. Picture Pioneer Village. Betty O'Connor churning some butter down by the blacksmith shop. Kyle McGivens shaving timbers to build a log cabin. Amish. Do you think that those people who are in covered wagons and were us, just the old version of us, do you think they ever pulled the covered wagon to the side of the trail and went, hey Jedidiah, do you think we're in a simulation? Like, I think we've created this simulation talk because we do have all this computer and, you know, we're in this world now that, that's full of contraptions. Okay, let me ask you, but I don't think we're in a simulation.

But go ahead. Are you sure the pioneer days even really happened?

Wow, you got me, you son of a whore. I'm walking off the show. I'm walking off the show. Fuck you. And this isn't a simulation.

Fake rubber legs. Get the fuck out of here.

The only guy to walk off your show with fake legs.

I mean, if you think about it, we think that the Pioneer Days happen. We can go to the museum and we could see Pioneer Day wheels.

And what about the butter churning, Joe? The sweet butter churn.

There's a bunch of people that studied it in universities, allegedly, if they're real people. I don't even know if they're real. I don't even know if you're real. Why would you have rubber legs? This doesn't make sense. You showed up here with rubber pants and a gourd. Over your cock? It doesn't make any sense. Yeah, you're right.

I don't even think I'm real anymore.

You might not be. Good point.

For real, for real.

I, I think we're real. I, I think it's not a simulation. I don't know how, how do you make a simulation? Like how, what, we're just, we're all like pixels right now and like there's too much.

Do you know the, uh, DMT laser thing?

What do you mean?

That like the— so when people smoke DMT, apparently if you use like a DeWalt construction laser, you know, in those lasers they use to make sure things are Yeah, yeah. If you get above that laser and look down on it, you see code in the later— in the laser, like Matrix code, like the numbers code. It's like, okay, people see the same code. They describe it exactly the same. Okay, and so people see it. If you look to the side, you look underneath it, look, you see the code in the laser. And people think that this laser is exposing the code of the simulation that we live in. This is supposedly what it looks like.

I mean, I just am not there.

You see cymbals and like weird numbers. I haven't done it.

If I see the whole drum set, I'm in. But if it's just the cymbals, forget it.

I haven't done it, but I know a lot of people who have done it, and everyone that I know that's done it has said the same thing. They said it is fucking insane. DMT? No. Yeah, but DMT with this laser thing. So when you look down the laser, everybody that I know that's done it say it blew their fucking mind. You see all these weird symbols, they look like hieroglyphs or some foreign language or numbers, and it's very bizarre.

Mm, I don't know, it just seems to me, why run us through the drama of a life, a human life, where we're born, we endure pain, illness, suffering, love, hate, all the emotions, just to be a simulation? I don't get the reason for that. What's the reason for it if it's not a simulation? It's organic. It's just organic life.

But okay, what is organic?

It's made of the earth, born of the environment.

Right, but isn't that like this entire computing process where single-celled organisms figured out how to become multi-celled organisms, figured out how to interact with their environment, figured out the ecosystem, figured out how to balance itself off with both predator and prey and food and water and resources.

Right, but it's so very intricate and delicate, you have to bring into the question, was it, was it organic, or organic under the guise of a bigger creator?

Well, maybe the bigger creator is the simulation itself.

Damn it, Rogan, you know, and maybe the problem— maybe the problem— I'm out.

Take them rubber legs and get the fuck out of here. Maybe the, the problem is calling it simulation. Yeah, maybe like that. Maybe it's not that it's not real. Yeah, but that there is an underlying program that's running. Maybe instead of thinking of a simulation, because you think of a simulation, you think of it as not real. Like my— when I slap my arm, it hurts a little. Like, that's real, right? If I knock my knee, that hurts. But it's not that it's not real, but that you're— it's running a program. And this program, what we talked about earlier, when you're saying that people are moving towards something bigger and a new version of what we are. Yeah, maybe that's a part of the program. Maybe the program is that all of these different components have to work together. This is why we'll never get rid of evil. You need evil so that you appreciate good. You want rainy days so you appreciate the sunshine. You want like good times and bad times. You have to have a little bit of bad times so you appreciate the good times. You have to have some days where you feel like shit so that you appreciate good days.

You have to have bad friends so you appreciate really good friends. Okay. All that stuff balances itself out and it's moving towards something. And what is it moving towards? The thing that we're involved in right now, AI. It's moving towards the creation of a new life form that's far more intelligent than we are. And it's probably a part of this whole process. Okay.

Valid. I like what you just said. But I'm going to expand on it a little. Push through. You're coming at it from a human perspective where you're channeling it through, you know, a human mind, which is beautiful and endless. And we can think beyond, you know, the scope of who knows where our imaginations end. Uh-huh. But that's because we're humans and we have the capacity. But to the schools of salmon spawning up the river and the, the moose fighting with a grizzly bear right now and the the ants running around in their nest. Do you think that— why would they be part of a simulation? And I don't think any other living entity thinks simulation.

I don't think you have to say simulation. I think it's a program. And I think all those other different creatures are part of the ecosystem. Like, you need the bears, you need the salmon, you need the deer, you need the vegetation, you need the animals that run through the grasses and shit on them and make manure. Right. All that stuff feeds off, and we exist in that thing. And we're moving in this direction of technological innovation and moving towards this new future that's happening right in front of our eyes right now.

But there's so many processes in what you just said, and it's like, why have them all? Why not just plop us down as humans? No. And we don't need trees and grass, we just live in kind of a vacuous, vapid airspace. No, no, no, no. We still do our jobs, but we don't Why do we need all the— why do we need mosquitoes and slugs and fungus? Like, I know why we need them biologically to make everything symbiotic, but if it's just a— you just said it— if it's just a thing, if it's not real, why do we need—

you keep saying that and I'm not saying that. It's not that it's not real, it's a program. We're running a program. It's clearly real. What is real? What real is you experience it as real consequences for your actions. You feel things, you touch things, you eat, you sleep, you need You have resources. It's all real.

You're asking a guy with fake legs what's real?

You have a fake tattoo too.

Two of them. Oh, Billy. I mean, it's like— No, I like this. I like where you're going.

It's a program. I don't know if it's fake, but what I'm saying is it might be a program that runs, that makes people, and those people eventually make AI. And that might be the whole purpose of the program. We might be in the middle of it. We're in the middle of it. We were born at a time, you and I were both born at a time where none of this existed. Yeah. We got to experience life without any of it. Remember when answering machines first came around? Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. You, somebody could leave a message for you. And then the crazy one was answering machines that you could call your answering machine and get a message. Oh. From another phone. You press in your code.

Doot doot doot doot. And it was like 12 numbers. Yeah. And you memorized them because we got addicted to it.

And then you could listen to your messages. Yeah. And you could even press pound and star to skip over them. Play them back. Yeah. Yeah. Remember those days? You have 5 messages. Yeah.

You're like, oh, somebody likes me. I remember I'd go do a gig and the second I'd get off a plane, and a lot of your viewers won't know what this is, I'd run directly to the payphone in the airport and I'd boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, hear my messages instantly.

Yeah. That was technology back then. We were living on the edge back then.

And by the way, I'm not refuting or denying everything you're saying, but I'm pushing back a little because I can see it stimulating you to think deeper, and I like hearing your commentary on it. I like it that you're— if I push back a little, it makes you dig deeper to make your point, and I like it. I like what I'm hearing coming from you.

Well, I like what you're saying too, is about simulation, like the idea that it's fake. I don't think it's fake. Yeah, I think it's a real thing. It's obviously a real thing if we're experiencing it. What is real? Are your dreams real? Yes. Is sleep real? Yes. These are real things. Whether or not you can put it on a scale doesn't mean it's not real. So I don't think the simulation term is the best term. Yeah, it's a program. I think we're running a biological program, and we think of biological as being separate from like math and being separate from like subatomic particles and the fucking confusing quantum world. I don't think it's separate from it at all. I think it's all just one big super complex program that's running that, if done properly— and we're experiencing it right now— it leads to the creation of artificial life. Okay. And even artificial life's a bad term because it's not artificial, it's real.

With all that being said, where do you visualize the data center being? If it's a program, is it off planet? Is it off galaxy? Is it invisible? Like Doesn't there have to be a data center if we're a program? Or how does it just— the universe itself up out of there?

It's itself. I think the universe itself is a program. I think it runs from the beginning of the Big Bang to the, the formation of neutron stars. And I had this lady on, Michelle Thaller. Uh, how do you say her last name? Thaller.

I barely know her. Amazing lady.

Like, NASA cosmologist, where she's an astronomer. And, uh, we were talking about like neutron stars, like the insanity of neutron stars and how they bend space and time. They warp gravity around them. It's like, yeah, these things all exist out there in the universe. They do. They're all— I think it's all a part of this program. And I think this program is running on other planets. I think there's other life forms that are doing very similar things.

Look, I, I like the debate. I like your take on it. I just still struggle with the technicality of it all. Uh-huh.

But the technicality of it all, if it's just biological life, let's say it's just random. Yeah. All this stuff is random. Water rained down, bacteria turned into fucking amoebas, platypuses, whatever. It all just happened slowly but surely. That makes less sense. That makes less sense than a slow program that's running from literally the beginning of single-celled organisms, literally the beginning of the formation of planets, that this is like a natural cycle that happens everywhere in the universe. Yeah, there's a reason why these, these suns spin around and spit out plasma and that, that stuff coalesces in space. Yeah, yeah, coalesces in space. Yeah, you know, um Terry Howard, the, the actor. Very—

oh yeah, he was here.

Very eccentric guy. Yeah, he had a theory that I can't stop thinking about. What is it? He thinks that planets are formed because the suns eject particles over time and that these stars eject— we see those, the big plasma ejections and the big solar flares and all that. He thinks that material eventually gets out into space, eventually forms planets. He says when the planets get further from the sun further enough from the Sun, they people. He thinks that's what, what happens to Earth. Mm-hmm. You get a certain distance, and then life evolves, and then intelligent life evolves, and then eventually these planets people. And then when they get too far from the Sun, they can no longer support intelligent life. They can no longer support life. So then the people have to get intelligent enough by the time the planet's far enough away where they've figured out a way to bypass all the problems of living on a planet that doesn't have an environment, and living on a planet that doesn't have water, they've bypassed all that. Yeah, they've moved into the next realm of existence, and now they can travel interstellar and do all that kind of crazy shit.

I wouldn't refute that theory. It's a good theory. I think it's a good theory. I mean, it could explain how we're even here. Yeah, it also could explain the weird shit on Mars.

Wait a minute. That Mars at one point in time might have had life.

Yeah, the dry lake beds and the— No, the structures.

Have you ever seen the structures on Mars?

Oh, that face?

No, have you seen the big square? No. Okay. Jamie, I'll show you. There's this weird thing on Mars that, by the way, it's in the same area of Cydonia where that face is. The face doesn't look like a face to me.

Yeah, it's more shadowy. It's the shadows that make it look like a face, I think.

Yeah, it looked like a face in the early images, but this stuff is fucking weird. Like, that's weird.

Is that the Glendale Galleria? It is, but it's— Good God.

5 million years ago on Mars.

So you're, you're saying because geometrically it's a perfect square, you think it's a—

look what that looks like, man. That's nuts. Like, yeah, when, when do right angles like that that are in the same distance from each other, yeah, ever exist in nature? That's crazy.

And if they determine what those bumps are, or those rock structures, or—

they don't know. They don't even know how big it is because it's somewhere— it's between 300 meters is like the, the small estimate but it might be as far as like a couple of miles. Yeah, they don't know how big it is. Look at that thing. What the fuck is that? Yeah, what the fuck is that? There's a bunch of these things on Mars that are just really weird. And if at one point in time— I'm talking millions of years ago, hundreds of millions, who knows? Yeah, how much would be left? Yeah, no, how many— let's put this into perplexity, Jamie. How many ancient civilizations have myths about— or instead of do any, how about this, not how many, do any ancient civilizations have myths about Mars? Have myths about Mars?

It's perfectly feasible. Totally feasible.

Yeah. Like, if you think about it, several ancient civilizations have myths or religious associations tied to Mars, usually because they saw it as a bright reddish and sometimes ominous planet. Hey, don't mansplain to me, bro. Ancient Romans identified Mars with their god of war. Okay, do any, um, ancient civilizations have a myth about people coming from Mars? How about that? See if that is, um— do any have myths about humans coming from Mars? You could just do a follow-up question at the bottom there. Here we go. Dun dun dun. What do you think? Yes? Wow. Here it goes. No, ancient civilizations did not have myths about humans or people coming from Mars. While Mars has been central to mythology across many cultures, these myths focus on Mars as a deity or celestial object, not as humanity's origin point. What is that one tribe? Is the Dogon people? They have a weird origin story from another planet. Dogons? Yeah, Dogon tribe origin story. I don't know.

I don't know. The Dogons.

Wow. Um, I think it's somewhere in Africa. Sounds like—

sounds like they're broke, whoever they are. Mali.

They have a complex creation myth centered around Omna. Ama, the supreme creator god who lived in the celestial regions, as was the origin of all creation. In their cosmology, the stars represent Ama's bodily parts, with the constellation Orion called the seat of heaven or Ama's navel. And so I think they have this origin story from— whoa, what is this? Descended to earth in an ark suspended from heaven by a copper chain. Whoa, okay, look at this. According to Dogon mythology, Ama created the earth and then split himself in two, creating Ogo representing disorder and Nomo representing order. Ogo descended to earth along the Milky Way, uh, with which the Dogon believe connects heaven and earth, and created havoc. To restore balance, Ama created Nomo and gave him 8 assistants consisting of 4 pairs of twins. These 8 beings, also called the Nomo, became the ancestors of the Dogon people and descended to Earth in an ark suspended from heaven by a copper chain.

Okay, what was that story? I think we're accidentally reading a children's book, Joe. The Ogo people— what?

The Dogon people. The Ogo and the Pogos. Yeah, this is— but what do you— I think there's a lot of people that have like weird origin stories that involve extraterrestrial life.

Yeah, I mean, there is. Hey, I mean, are you running that through human evolution? Yes, because if you run it through human evolution, extraterrestrial life doesn't necessarily match up with like Homo erectus and, you know, Neanderthal man and things like that. In what way? Well, I, I get the sense that extraterrestrial life is far more advanced and technological, going back to what you were talking about at the bottom of the ocean, whereas our ancestors were primal, right? So how do the two collide?

I'm a bit confused. Well, what if they created us?

They created us as primates and watched evolve as an experiment?

Yeah, what if you— like, let's imagine this. We talked about, like, if we showed up and we found a planet and it was filled with, like, ancient primates, ancient hairy men that had just figured out stone tools.

Okay, I'm with you. I'm right there, guy.

Do you think— let's not say American scientists, we would never do this— but do you think perhaps, like, Chinese or Russian scientists might do some things with them and try to make them more advanced?

In terms of biological experimentation? Engineering. Genetic engineering. I don't know. I mean—

I will answer for you. Yes.

You think they would? 100%. For sure.

They're just cave people. They don't even have any civilization. Let's just do whatever we want to them because we're far more advanced. Do you know that there was a point in time where the Russians were experimenting with people and trying to make a human-chimpanzee hybrid for war?

Is that right?

Yeah, this is after World War II. They were trying to make hybrids. So, so many Russians died during World War II. I mean, Russia lost a lot of fucking— yeah, they did. And there was a program that, like, they do a lot of things where they, they just run it up the chain. Like, what do you think? Yeah, if we do this, what if we do that? You know, what if we make a nuclear bomb? What if we make a plane that doesn't have any radar signal? What if we make— instead of our soldiers dying, what if we make a hybrid just for war? We know chimpanzees are incredibly strong and they're smart and they're very violent. So what if we made an incredibly strong, very violent species that's more intelligent than chimpanzees and we can control them and we'll use them as our soldiers?

But that seems like a lot of work for something that's hiding behind a, a modern weapon. Because whether you have a, an insane chimpanzee behind a machine gun or a guy that was an accountant and got drafted, it seems like the weapon's doing the work, not the biological entity.

Yeah, but if the chimp's stronger and faster and they can get to places where the accountant can't, and they can charge into him in the middle of the night because they could see at nighttime, there's a lot of things that you could do with chimps. That were hybrids. Yeah, what was the extent of that program? Let's find out.

I'm looking it up right now. He— the guy that did it was also then arrested. I'm trying to figure out—

well, like, of course he was arrested, but he's a fucking psychopath.

Well, he was— what's his name? Dr. Moreau. Ring a bell?

It says he was funded by Soviet authorities to set up experiments. I'm like, well, were these private, you know, or did— well, official?

I would imagine if I was the leader of Russia at the time. And this guy said, uh, Mr. Prime Minister, I have a program I am currently considering in operation where I will be able to make soldiers that are increasingly strong, much faster, that retain human characteristics like the ability to communicate and to engage in warfare with weaponry. But they will be much faster, much stronger, and more importantly, not people. We won't mourn for them like our brothers and sisters. We will breed them in laboratories. We will make millions of them, arm them, and send them out against our enemies.

Are you coming on to me?

A little bit. I got hard talking. So this— wow.

So he successfully did a bunch of stuff in the early 1900s. What? Successfully. Not any human hybrids, but other animals. So they say. He was a pioneer in artificial insemination as well.

He conducted experiments that involved artificially inseminating horses to create superior offspring for Imperial Russia, and this work earned him recognition from the Bolsheviks. Ivanov was not satisfied with merely enhancing a species though. Hybridization became his obsession, and he was soon crossing zebras with donkeys, cows with bison, and several different species of rodents. With each other. In 1910, he brashly declared he could see a human-ape hybrid in the future.

Isn't this gene splicing though? Have you ever heard of a liger? Mm-hmm.

But ligers are just hybrids. It's just they breed with each other. A male tiger and a female lion, or the opposite. I don't forget which one. Right. But, but the problem is the reason why ligers are so big, it's— I think it's the— is it the male tiger or the male lion? Whichever one it is, the male has the gene that regulates size, and when they have the hybrid, that gene doesn't, doesn't transfer. Huh. And so the ligers just keep growing. They're huge. Fucking gigantic. I might have fucked that up, but I don't think I did. Ivanov imported chimps to Russia, inseminating unpaid Soviet women with their sperm. Unpaid? Though none conceived because humans and chimp chromosomes are incompatible. Interesting. Imagine you're a fucking Soviet lady and you're like, what is this job? You lie down with your legs open and we stick something inside of you and you get a loaf of bread. What the fuck, man?

We give you the abominable snowman in your womb.

How much did they know about genes back then? Genes and chromosomes. So what year was this? 1920-ish. Did they, when did they discover chromosomes?

As of yesterday, we just, they might not have even known helium was on Earth.

Right, that's right, that's right. Yeah, they thought helium was only in the Sun. Um, wow. When did they discover chromosomes? Let's find that out. Let's take a guess. Harlan?

I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say in the '40s.

I'm gonna go a little later. I'm gonna say '50s. Okay. I'm gonna say 57. I'm gonna say 42. I am purely guessing though. Me too.

No idea. Yeah, the—

what you mean by that is kind of— it's very vague because like they could have known about them, but like to what detail and how many there were?

And well, let's just, um, just put that into perspective.

I did, but like it's giving a vague answer. In the 1800s, they sort of knew about it, but to what detail isn't till the 19—

okay, chromosomes were first observed as distinct structures in the cell nuclei in the 1800s. Well, that's pretty distinct. They're talking about in the cell structure, so they must have been looking at them with microscopes. Um, once good light microscopes became available, so that's the 1800s, their role as carriers of hereditary information was not clarified until the early 1900s through work linking chromosomes to Mendel's Law of Inheritance.

It's 100 years of guessing. Watch, imagine what we're guessing about now that we don't know about. Yeah, right. It could mean any, they could have been completely wrong for 35 years and then sort of close for 10 and wrong again for 20. And then it was like, oh nope, that's what it is.

Yeah. Wild, right? It's wild how long it took.

Well, see this is in comparison to today. This goes back to AI, Joe, giving access to the average person. To be able to dig into this stuff, because it might be the guy in aisle 12 at Home Depot who discovers some of these probing answers, you know? Yeah, definitely.

That's why I love it. You might be like, you know, hitting a bong, sitting at home, talking to ChatGPT and go, bro, yeah, tell me how to make a human-monkey hybrid.

Exactly.

So this guy, um, so it was— and I pulled it back.

I was reading about him. This started to say the American backers sending them some money too.

And of course, they want to get those rotted fucking crazy chimp people too.

Call me crazy, but I get the feeling you would like to see one of those. 100%. Because physically it would have to look incredible.

Be insane. Imagine if you get a, like, a Viking, like a Brock Lesnar gene, you splice it with a chimpanzee gene. Yeah, you have a giant like Thor from Game of Thrones, the Mountain from Game of Thrones. Imagine that guy, splicing that guy's genes with the chimpanzee's genes.

Well, you keep going to chimp, but what about a silverback gorilla, which is even— they're not They're not as violent. Yeah, they're very calm. They eat vegetables. They're vegans. Whereas chimps are pack hunters. They eat other monkeys. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, they're way more violent. They're way more like us. We're way closer to chimps than we are to gorillas. Yeah, we are. Yeah, we're closer in our behavior. Like, they engage in war. They have tribal war. They go after tribes. They break off and find— they start new civilizations.

But if you're splicing two entities together, you've got— you got the human brain that's, you know, we're sort of wired to be violent, but you just take the physicality of the silverback and marry them together.

They're just as wired to be violent as we are, buddy.

What? Chimps? No, I'm saying the silverback. Then you have a bigger physical body with our minds. But maybe they'll just chill like the gorillas do. They just go to Miami.

New delivery of chimps to a nursery in 1930, but in the light of the questionable ethics and zero progress, Ivanov was arrested and exiled to Kazakhstan, where he died 2 years later. Some of the apes and monkeys that outlived him were launched into space with the Sputnik missions. You imagine, you imagine you're an ape. First they make you fuck some lady, and then they shoot you off into space. Well, you were just eating bananas, having a good time in the jungle, being a regular chimpanzee, and these motherfuckers out in orbit Fuck some janitor and then shoot you into space. Like, janitor?

They successfully implanted an ovary in a few of them.

Oh God. Wow. Fucking psychos. Jesus Christ.

Yeah, they've done over the course of history, the Germans, the Japanese, the Chinese, in times of war, they did the most horrific experimentation. They did everything you could do. They'd see how long it would take for a human body to die if you boiled it and skin people. I mean, the things that have been done, the aberrations that have happened are crazy, but this is interesting. This is almost the basis for a movie, I think.

Well, it could absolutely happen today. This is where it gets weird, because now with CRISPR and with gene editing, how many years are we away from them being actually able to do that? Actually able to take whatever genes you have in a person, whatever genes you have in a chimpanzee, pick which ones, which things you want to do, and make a life form. I like it. You know they have the dire wolves now, right?

Yeah, the dire wolves. I saw them.

I went to visit them. You did?

Are they pure? Are they 100% pure? Or are they a version of a modern-day wolf mixed with a dire wolf?

It's a really good question. So, that is the question that people always use to dismiss— or that is the statement that people use to dismiss what they've done as actually creating dire wolves. But when I talked to the woman who's the head geneticist, the way she said is these distinctions, like what we call something a direwolf, what we call something a pug, we call whatever these distinctions are, these are our creations. And that the genetics are the same. Like, this animal looks like a direwolf because it is a direwolf. Okay. And some of those genes are in wolves. Some of those genes are in the biological tissue that they got from, like, thousand-year-old— like, how old was the tissue that they got from a direwolf that they used for Colossal? I feel like some of it was like 10,000 years old, like something crazy.

Where did they find that tissue? What country? They find in America.

You get it, okay? Like, when they find fossil— they find like a dead animal, they find something that they can get out of it where they can get some DNA. Yeah. And they've managed to get the actual DNA of a direwolf. Wolf. So 13,000 years old, a tooth from Sheridan Pit, Ohio, and a 72,000-year-old skull from American Falls, Idaho. So wow, so they get the genes, they make a map. I'm just— I'm butchering this, I'm sorry if you're a scientist. I'm sorry to all the people at Colossal. Yeah, you make a map of what it means to be a dire wolf based on this stuff because you have these samples, and then you choose those genes, you add those genes to a gray wolf wolf, and then you turn it into a fucking direwolf. And they're all white, and they have a mane like a lion, which they didn't know they were gonna have. Like, not as big as a lion, but it's, it's a pronounced mane. Huh. And they look different, man. They're weird.

Are they bigger in size because they were semi-prehistoric? They're bigger. They're just a bit— it's a bigger than a timberwolf. Yes. Wow.

Yeah, they're like a 200-pound wolf, and they're built different. They're built different. Like, yeah, they're more stocky. And they look different. What's their jaw structure like? Is it different? Bigger, stronger. They're— it's a bigger, more ferocious animal that lived at a time where it was—

What does the term dire mean? Do we know? Dire wolf. That's a good question. What is dire?

Let's find out why they call them dire wolves. Yeah, I have no idea. Just sounds dope.

I wonder if they ever get sick, if they become diarrhea wolves. Is that where you go with that? No, I really do want to know. That just came to me. That just came to me. But I do want to know where dire comes from, what it means.

Fearful or terrible. The Latin words dirus, meaning feel fearful or terrible, or awe-inspiringly dreadful. Bro, back then when those things were around and people were around at the same time, you imagine how fucking rough it would be. You're in the woods and you're camping out with your buddy and you see a pack of dire wolves that recognize you and you know it's over.

Well, the thing with wolves though, Joe, and you probably know this, wolves traditionally don't hunt down humans. That's true.

That's not true at all.

I don't know, is there any record of a human being killed by a wolf? 100%.

There's record in modern times. Not a lot. Oh, that's not true. That's the reason why they eradicated them from the West Coast.

I thought that was because they were nabbing the cattle.

No, they were killing people too. That's what the Big Bad Wolf and the Little Red Riding Hood is all about. They would kill your kids. That's— those stories were about avoiding wolves because wolves were dangerous. They're deadly. Do you know that World War I, the Russians and the Germans had a ceasefire because so many of them were getting killed by wolves in Siberia? Really? That they decided to have a ceasefire, kill the wolves, and then go back to killing each other.

Because my experience is wolves are very trepidatious of humans. They fear them and avoid them. We killed most of them.

Because we killed most of them.

But that wouldn't change their hunting instinct. Now, if there were still packs roaming wild and free, if you don't kill the instinct out of them, 'Cause then you'd kill their instinct to kill an elk, or—

If you've seen wolves, you've seen wolves in Canada. Yeah. They hunt them in Canada. Yeah. Yeah. That's why they're trepidatious. That's why they're nervous about people.

Can we look up how many humans have been killed by wolves? Very rare.

Mostly happened in Europe and Asia.

Yeah, see, it's not common.

It's because we killed them all, Harlan. They're not around anymore. That's the whole point. The reason why they got killed off was because they were a fucking problem. Problem. It's not because, you know, people are evil and it was a terrible idea. It's because they wanted to live and they knew that the wolves were fucking killing everybody.

I think the problem was they were killing their domestic cattle. 100%. But not the people so much. No, people too.

Really? Yeah, they kill— they don't have rules, man.

They're predators. I know, but they're also— think of it, every living species— why is it I can go to a park And a blue jay and a squirrel and a deer and a bunny can be just fine, completely different species. But then a little boy walks up, a human, and they all just go, "Shh!" There's this driven instinct in all animals to fear us, which breaks my heart because most of us are loving and want to coddle and connect with animals. But even insects, dragonflies, hummingbirds, nothing wants to be near us. And so wolves also— all animals are trepidatious of humans. It's sad, but it's true. And if that's part of the bigger program we've been talking about, what does it say about us?

First of all, animals are not trepidatious of humans.

Have you ever walked up to a wild animal?

I've walked up to a lot of wild animals. I know that you're being silly. I'm not being silly. Okay, so realistically, all those animals you said— blue jay, deer— those are all animals that eat plants, okay? If a dog showed up, they would run. Any animal that's a predator is gonna scare them, whether it's a human. We have eyes in front of our face. The reason why you have eyes in front of your face like that is because you're looking to go after something. When you have eyes on the side of your face, you're looking for something to go after you. So all those animals like deer and all these little cute little animals, they're all prey, right? They're all like super sketchy with anything that has eyes in front of its face that's looking at them. Because we are a fucking predator. But it would be the same if it was a coyote there. It'd be the same if a dog was there. If a cat or a big cat or a lion was there, if they saw it, they would all freak out because they're prey. Yeah, but wolves have killed people. Fact.

100% all throughout time. I'm just saying, if they catch you alone, they catch you in the woods, and if it's you and 5 of them, they will kill you. Kill you.

It's, it's, it's— we're not on their dietary list though. Look, because you're not a whale, because you're not a human killed by a killer whale. Only at SeaWorld, right?

Because they— well, that's different. So why?

That's a living mammal. Yeah, but I mean, there's millions of people in the ocean every day, but there's no record of an orca killing a human.

No, because they're trepidatious of us. No, they're super intelligent.

And wolves and coyotes, they're not trepidatious of it.

They help us.

They communicate, they play with I know, but I'm just saying it's not common for wolves and apex predators to go after humans. It happens, but it's not common. And wolves, they're very skittish animals.

Okay, they're skittish if they're around people and they think the people might have a gun. If you're in the woods, wolves are not skittish of you. They're thinking about what they're going to do to you and whether or not they're going to eat you. If you have a rifle and you're in the woods and they hear the boom go off, they're gonna get the fuck away from you. They don't know what a rifle is.

I'm just saying there's an instinctual fear of humans for whatever reason. Dude, it's not true. Most critters avoid us. Even fish, if you walk up on them.

Critters avoid all predators. All of them. Yeah, but look at the plains of Africa.

You'll see a wildebeest and a zebra and I guess elephants.

Do you know what the fuck would happen to you if you walked out in the wild of Africa?

You're done. Yeah, yeah, because you have lions, leopards, you're prey there, right?

All those animals are freaking out too until one gets taken out, right? This is the Joseph Campbell story of the hero. Like, one gets taken out, the other ones go, wow, he did it for us. Because when the lions are eating that one antelope, they're gonna leave you alone. You could relax for a little bit.

Yeah, that's what it is. I'm just saying, they're never calm around lions.

They run.

That's why they run. Right. But I'm just saying wolves are probably more inclined to step around us than attack us.

They are more inclined to do whatever they need to do to survive.

They will. They're opportunists.

And if it's attacking your sheep, then they'll attack your sheep. Right. If it's killing your dog, they'll kill your dog. If it's killing you, if you're 20 miles into the backcountry and you're camping alone and you don't have a weapon and a pack of wolves shows up, up and they haven't had anything to eat for a few days, they'll take you down.

They'll take you down. But I'm just saying, I'm, I'm just trying to instill into you with all this programming talk, there's something programmed into all the other species on this planet. They go, whoa, there's a fucking human. You're wrong. And they step around us a lot. No, you're wrong.

Not that they won't kill us, but it's anything that's coming near them, they get away Right. The reason why they're scared of people is because they have experience with people. That's what it is.

Really?

Yes, wolves do. Wolves in Canada that get shot at are afraid of people. They know that people have the guns, the guns make the boom. They're smart. They— a bunch of them die. They see one of them die. They learn that. They see the gun, they see the stick, they run away from the guys. So they stay away from people because people might kill their family members, their pack members. It happens.

I think we're splitting hairs on this one.

No, listen, there's a difference between the way bears react in, say, Alaska than bears react in Montana. So in Montana, you can't hunt grizzly bears. So grizzly bears are not afraid of people because generation after generation after generation have not been hunted. Right. When bears see you in Alaska, that's generation after generation that have been hunted, and they react very differently. They're like, get the fuck away from the people, right? But unless they don't know you have a gun, and sometimes you have to scare them off. But if they're used to being around people with guns, they associate people with danger.

Yeah, that's kind of Pavlovian though. That's like when they're not— when they're not like in Montana, but in raw wild, bears are quite skittish. I've been around them.

I have too, man. It depends on the bear. It depends on whether it's a mother with her cubs.

They're not skittish. They're not skittish. They'll fuck you up. They're protective. They're They're no longer hunting, but I'm just saying that there's an element to, sadly, our human existence that scares a lot of critters. Most animals can exist together in the same area, and yet when a— when an apex predator approaches, the zebras will run. But if you look at the hoofed animals and the hippos and the— everything kind of coexists. But when a human walks in You know, we can't walk up to critters and just pet them. You can in the Galápagos. Okay. Are we— no. Are we having a fight?

No, but a lion can't walk up to it with his shirt off and pet a meek one.

I'll wrap my legs around you so fast.

It's not uniquely humans, man. It's all animals are worried about something that wants to eat them, right? That's a real part of their existence. It's all animals. If you let your dog loose and you let it around wild animals, they fucking run like crazy, man. They run way more than they do with a person.

Let me rephrase it. If a wild animal comes up on a deer, a predator-prey scenario, uh-huh, instinctually they know a predator goes into stalking mode, the deer's gone, right? But if a human, me or you, goes, oh, look at the deer, and we try to walk towards the with nothing but love and affection, and we just want to pet it, and it's gone. And that's what I'm saying.

You're not saying shit, because a dog, the same thing would happen. You're not making any sense. Yes, of course the deer doesn't want you to pet them. It doesn't fucking know you, man. What are you, nuts?

Right, but it— they just, they just flee. They don't flee like they would dogs. Everything flees us. A squirrel.

I have deer in my neighborhood, and when they see me, they don't give a fuck. Fuck. They don't care about your car. You're, you're driving in a car, you could stop the car and roll the window down, go, hello, Mr. Deer. Yeah, they just fucking stare at you.

All animals are like that.

They saw a dog, they would fucking run. Yeah, run like crazy. Even my golden retriever, my sweet golden retriever Marshall. Yeah, they run like crazy from him. They blow, they make those crazy noises.

Yeah, they fucking take off. They stamp their feet.

They're scared of predators, dude. They're not scared of people in my neighborhood because no one's eating them in my neighborhood. It.

It's their conditioning. I don't know, I'm just talking about— you're just stick—

you're stuck on an idea. People are bad. The people are uniquely bad. I wish we could just go hug the pork.

No, I'm not saying people are bad. I'm saying that animals have something in their brain that they don't trust us because we're the apex.

Yeah, we're the top of the food chain. But it's, it's just sad that it's not— it's way better than being at the bottom of the food chain. Way better than us, like, fucking wandering through the woods if your kids are going to get eaten by a fucking wolf. 'cause some greeny dipshit decided to import 'em back into the wild. We need to rewild our wolves.

Wait, you don't like that wolves are back in the wild?

You know they just dropped him off in Aspen? These dumb motherfuckers. You don't like that? They dropped him off on a cattle ranch, and all they're doing is eating cows. Eating the cows. So now they have to have cowboys 24/7 riding horses because the governor's husband thought it would be a cute idea to drop off wolves in Colorado. And they reintroduced him to an area that has agriculture. They reintroduced them to ranching areas. Wow. You don't— 5 fucking wolves. They've killed who knows how many cows.

You don't—

The government has to reimburse them every time a cow dies. They keep killing cows. They're not allowed to kill the wolves. The wolves are around them 24 hours a day, just circling.

Well, that's not great. So they have cowboys on horses.

Yeah. All throughout the night. They've got fires. They have to keep people employed.

But outside of the cattle poaching critters. Are you for reintroducing and repopulating areas of—

First of all, wolves were making their way into Colorado naturally. Yeah, they're already in the San Juan Mountains. They're moving in from Wyoming where they live naturally. And when they reintroduced them into Montana, those have spread out all over the place. Yeah, there's plenty of fucking wolves, man. But aren't there plenty of fucking cows too?

You don't like wolves?

I don't think you want wolves. I don't think you understand what you're saying. You're talking about a pack predator. It's very different than any other predator. They work together in coordination, and they're smart. And if once they— it's not like a mountain lion. It's not like a thing that acts alone. Once they figure out that the cows are in these wooden pens, and they could just hop the pen, kill a cow, and that's it, they're gonna do it forever. Right.

But take out the poaching wolves, but the ones that are reintroduced and assimilate in raw nature, I think those are crucial and important to that ecosystem.

It is crucial to have balance, and there's, there's some aspects of having the wolves back in Montana that's actually better for the elk population. It is. The elk population was very overpopulated at one point in time. They had seasons where they were allowing people to shoot them in the snow in the winter. So like, there were so many of them, when they're in the snow, like deep snow, they can't run. So you basically— the wolves? No, the elk. Elk. Because before they reintroduced the wolves, they had so many elk. Yeah, these elk were running out of resources. Yeah, and they realized like they're so overpopulated, we're gonna allow you to shoot them in ways that's not even remotely sporting. Yeah, they're stuck in snow. It's called culling. Yeah, just taking as many out of the population as you can. Yeah, and look, for the people that live there, it's amazing. You're eating elk cook 12 months out of the year, you got a freezer. Yeah, delicious. How dare you?

No, I mean, if you eat it all the time. But don't forget, the wolves also preserve the whole ecosystem because the overpopulation of elk were eating so much of the flora that the sides of riverbanks were eroding.

You're, you're quoting a documentary called How Wolves Change Rivers. Right. Yeah, widely disputed. So a lot of the stuff they're saying is not accurate in that documentary. What is accurate is that balance is important. Yeah. But a lot of things are very overstated in that, and it turned out to not be true. Not— no, a lot of the claims are not true. Huh. Because— interesting. There— you can have a pro, and the pro is it keeps the population in check and it puts a natural balance to, to the area. That's the pro. Yeah, this whole Changing Rivers thing, like, mm, some of it's accurate, some of it's not. Yeah, but there's— it's the— apparently that documentary was made by a guy who's into rewilding, and he also wants to rewild Europe. So like, these— it's very romantic, this idea. Okay, but there is positive to having a balanced ecosystem. There is not positive when wolves get overpopulated. When wolves get overpopulated, that's what you get when you had Russia and Germany having a fucking ceasefire in World War I because they were losing so many soldiers to wolves. They all united together to kill the wolves.

That's a true story.

But do you ever live in a world where you go, the wolves are part of the natural world the same way the bison were on the Great Plains before they eradicated them? You don't have kids, right?

You don't have kids. No. Okay. Well, I guess—

If you had Billy—

Imagine if you had kids and you were walking with your kids and you saw 3 wolves following you. Yeah. And you didn't have a gun. How would you feel about those wolves? When you thought, oh my God, we might get taken out by wolves. And I just thought they were these cute fuzzy things that were a part of nature.

Oh, I don't think of them as that.

Out in the wilderness.

I don't think of them as that.

They're amazing. We need them.

I worked in nature. I've been around wolves.

I know them. I am on team people. You are? 100%. 100% team people. I love all animals. I love them all. Yeah, but I love people way more. If it was between a person that I fucking hate, that it feels a real piece of shit, and I knew that they're gonna get taken out by a wolf, but I had a rifle, I'd kill the fucking wolf 100% of the time because I'm on team people. But this whole idea like, the animals are scared of us— good, be scared, bitch. It doesn't mean you should do anything bad to those animals, but good. Good, good, be scared.

Don't try to eat my kids. But Joe, isn't it team people that's eradicating all the animals as we encroach deeper and deeper into the Amazon jungle, the African plains? We're losing, look at the American bison. There used to be millions of them herding across the prairies, and now there's isolated pockets. Look at the elephant herds. Look at the silverback gorilla. Look at, there's so many things that are losing to team people that we might not have Siberian tigers in 30 years.

I'm not saying you should go and kill these endangered animals.

I don't say that either, but by encroaching we are—

I think the approach that we are— we're not always, that's not true. First of all, the bison thing was not because of encroaching. The bison thing was because of sport hunting, where these people were like— oh yeah. They were doing it, not even sport hunting, market hunting. Hunting. They were doing it for tongues. Do you know that's what they were getting? They were chopping out their tongues. All that delicious bison meat, they let it rot. Oh yeah. And then they were doing it for furs, and then they were doing it for bones. Like, what this is, is like, people were fucking insane, and rifles were fairly new, and long-range rifles are fairly new in human history. Right. And then all of a sudden you got people on trains, and you've got these insane— Just pop, shoot, pop. Now here's where it gets It's really weird. What's Dan's— Dan Flores. There's a guy named Dan Flores who wrote a book on bison, and he has a theory. It's a really good one. Yeah, the reason why there were so many bison on the plains was because of all the Native Americans that got wiped out by disease.

And it totally coincides with it because the original explorers that came to America in like the 1400s, they did not describe these enormous populations of bison, where you would see millions of them on a prairie. He thinks that that came about because literally, when the Europeans visited Native America, the Native Americans, 90% of the Native Americans died because of disease. 90%! I mean, a true apocalypse. Imagine 9 out of 10 Native Americans dead because of disease. Well, that means no one's hunting the bison.

Right, but that was their—

that was a primary food source for a lot of the Native Americans, and it wouldn't take many generations for them— if that was the thing that was keeping them in population, if they have a balanced ecosystem and the population was literally being controlled by these effective North American hunters, yeah, and all sudden they're gone, the population just booms. And that's what he was saying. And then along comes the people with the rifles. And then they rebuild the rifles. They're finding these sitting ducks just sitting out there, and they say there's so many of them, we could just shoot as many as we want, we never have to worry about it. And they're shooting them for tongues. Yeah, tongues.

Have you ever heard of Buffalo Head Smashdown?

Buffalo Head Smashdown?

Yeah. What's that? It's a town in Alberta.

That's the real name of the town?

The real name of the town where the— on the plains there. There was an optical illusion where it looked like the hills just kept going, but there was a cliff, and the Indians would chase the bison along the plains, and they didn't know it. And at the end, they'd all run over the thing, and the Indians would be waiting at the bottom and kill the bison. But they named the place Buffalo Head Smash. Oh wow, look at this. Now, wild. Wow. So the bison thought they're running on a flat plane and they couldn't see the change in the perspective, so they'd run right over the edge.

They did that a bunch of places in North America. In North America, they did. There's one of them where they killed so many bison that the rotting of them caused them to burst into flames. Yeah. And so, yeah, you know about that?

Yeah, that's like with whales when they blow up. Yeah.

Yeah, they explode. So the whole side of the hill is like black with coal. Oh yeah. Because they— They pop. Imagine that. Imagine the fucking smell of something where it gets so bad they burst into flames. Bro, what the fuck? Instant Texas barbecue. So they, the Native Americans, when they were really good at hunting, doing stuff like that, I mean, they're feasting, they're eating the best meat, and they're keeping the population in check. Now when they all died of disease, that population stopped being in check. And this is Dan Flores. I think it's called— see if you could find the name of it, Jamie. I think it's called Bison Diplomacy, Bison Ecology. I think that's what it's called.

Nature also provides disease when there is no humans around. Okay, like long before the Indians started hunting buffalo, there were buffalo. Yeah, Bison Ecology and Bison Diplomacy.

It's a very interesting paper. He was a professor of history at Texas Tech. Very, very good book. And he's got another great book on coyotes, Coyote America. Oh, coyotes.

Are you a fan of team human if team human keeps pushing animals out of business? Where at what point do we— No, I don't think it's just push. We're at what, 7 billion now, humans? I think it's more. So at what point are you still a fan of team human when more and more of team animal is being eradicated. And I'm not trying to say we should hate humans.

What animals are being eradicated right now?

Well, I just explained how the herds of elephants have shrunk down to this. Tigers are down to a few thousand. And a lot of that— Silverback gorillas are down to like a few hundred.

Okay, a lot of that is not encroaching, it's illegal poaching. It's that, but it's also encroaching.

We're using up their land.

Some of it, but also it's like, what do you want those people to do? Like people in India, like where they have elephants just invade their farms and eat all their food.

But that's what I'm saying. How long are you a proponent of Team Human?

People have been in those villages for hundreds and hundreds of years.

But animals have been for millions.

I'm on Team People. If it's your family that needs that farm to stay alive and all of a sudden a fucking pack of elephants comes in and eats all the food that you've been working for a year to plant and grow, what do you think? We should just feed the elephants?

I just wanna know where you stand. I'd rather see the animals succeed than us, if I'm being honest. I love people, but—

That is a ridiculous thing to say. We're the ones— That's a ridiculous thing to say. I like eating the animals. It doesn't mean the animals are going to go extinct.

Don't you think we're a parasite on the back of Eden? Don't you think humans are a parasite on the back of this beautiful paradise? No. No animal dumps nuclear waste or chemicals into rivers. No animal tears down forests except for beavers. So what makes team human so great?

Well, we definitely should—

I think you need to change your attitude.

We definitely shouldn't do those things, but I am a human and I like humans. I love 'em. I love 'em. I love you. And the only way that you're gonna have humans is if you stay on team human and not say, "I'd rather have the animals here." They're just gonna eat you. They're gonna eat you and there'll be no more houses.

But if you could press a button and get rid of humans with a press of a button and that everything else could just live here harmoniously, would you do it?

What are you living In a fucking Disney movie? I'm just asking. No, no, no chance.

I live in a simulation of a Disney movie.

You live in some bullshit Canadian reality show.

Oh boy, he's taken another drink of coffee.

Son of a bitch.

I'll fly over this table with my rotten legs and—

You're fucking Team Canada. I know what you're doing. I'm just asking. You're trying to ruin America by bringing in wolves. That's what you're doing. No. He's like a plant.

He's a plant. I'm asking you.

You're trying to ruin America by bringing in lions and wolves.

Do you think humans are a parasite on the planet?

I think we are a very complicated, intelligent life force that values itself above all else, to the detriment of the ecology of the Earth itself. So therefore— We could do better. We don't all do that, right? We're not— every company is not dumping things into rivers.

If you had a cancer on your body, would you get rid of the cancer? We're not a cancer, dude.

We're a part of the Earth. We are the predominant intelligent life force on this Earth.

Who predominantly destroys the Earth? Us. Cancer. We're not destroying it though.

We just do a bad job of keeping it clean.

That's a fancy way of saying destroying.

Well, most animals shit all over the ground.

They just don't have— Hit the button, Joe. Hit the button. You're funny. Come on, you want to do it together? You should have kids. I love kids. I love humans. I just wish we could do better.

How old are you now?

Take a guess. Take a guess. You saw my legs. Take a guess. I'll tell you. No, I'll tell you.

Well, I've known you for 30 years.

Yeah. So you're at least that. How old?

You gotta be 50-something.

60. I'll be 64 this year. Really? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. But I love humans, but I also—

If you had a kid now, it might be a problem. You might have bad jizz. Really? Yeah.

You might have old jizz. Have you seen my legs?

I've seen the legs look good.

What do you mean bad jizz? You don't— Al Pacino just had a kid and he's 400.

Give that kid an IQ test. Really?

Is he a dementoid? I don't know, he's a baby.

Maybe her strong genes because she's only 12. The girl— no, no, she's 30. Whatever she is, 30 years old. How old are you now? 58. Oh wow.

Yeah, we look pretty good with your chest and my legs. We're doing all right.

Right. Do you, did you ever want to have kids at one point? Yeah.

I, you know, I, I thought that, uh, at one point I would, I thought that at one point I might, but it just didn't work out. That was, I was married at one point.

And is it, it's like, it's hard when you're doing the road a lot. It's hard.

It is if you make it hard, but I never did the road a lot. I always mixed it so that I, that I enjoyed my life. And traveled and did stuff. So that's smart. Yeah, that's smart. But it just— it didn't work out. And who knows? The road ain't closed yet. So who knows?

Get your jizz checked. Make sure it's good. Yeah. Oh, it's fine. Throw it into a spectrometer. Oh my God.

I just told you I was on OnlyFans for 2 hours.

Analyze the jizz.

Make sure it's good stuff. Wait, can sperm actually go bad?

Well, when it comes to autism, there's— and maybe even Down syndrome, there's some There's some people that believe that the older the parents are, and they used to think that was just the older the woman was, yeah, I contributed to those things. Another thing, it is also likely the father. They're also realizing like a lot of, um, they were— there was this thing that I was reading about miscarriages from parents where the father drinks. I was like, wow, that's interesting, because I never really thought that the father being a drunk would affect the sperm, but of course it would. Of course it would.

Yeah. And weed too. They used to say weed affected the sperm, but I don't know if that's—

Well, they used to say it slows it down or something like that.

I don't know.

But you have 3 kids, so you— You have Adderall, dude, does it speed it up?

I don't know. Oh, zumpik? You give birth to a zombie?

You give birth to a fucking jazzed up Adderall kid. Dad, I want to fucking clean this house.

Wait, do you have any boys or is it all girls? No, it's all girls. Oh, wow. Do you wish you had had a boy?

I just want them to be healthy. Yeah, I think wishing that you had a boy or a girl, it's like the universe will give you what it gives you. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, you don't want to like— you don't want to wish you had a boy when you had a girl. Just appreciate the fact that you have a daughter.

No, I don't mean eliminate the girls. God bless the 3 girls. But if you had one more, would it be cool to have a boy?

I'm very happy. Oh good. Okay.

I don't think about it that way. You're a good dad. Thank you. That's something I picked up on you today.

I think everybody should try. Yeah, if you're a dad, you got one shot at this. One of these is really nice for me is that I don't have to travel as much because I have the club here. Yeah, you know, when they were young, I had to travel a lot when they were really young because it's like, okay, I wasn't making as much money. Yeah, it was like a little bit more difficult. And having the club where I don't have to do stand-up somewhere else, I don't have to go on the road all the time. So I'm only going on the road occasionally for like the UFC. And yeah, and you don't need to either.

No, just having fun. You're done good, guy.

You too, buddy. It's nice to see Kill Tourney like make a completely different career arc for all these people. Yeah. And you're one of them. It's fucking taking you to the stratosphere. It's wild to watch.

It's shone a new light on my career. Yeah, it sort of revitalized it a bit. Yeah.

You, Rob Schneider. Yeah. Yeah, Carrot Top. I mean, the list goes on and on. There's Kyle Dunnigan. There's so many people that it just fucking launched them.

So cool. When Tony asked me to do it 2 years ago, I'll be honest, I didn't even know what it was.

That's hilarious.

I didn't know who Tony was. I'd never met him. I knew nothing about it. I was doing Your Club and they said, hey, we're shooting tomorrow. Would you want to stay an extra day? And I said, for what? They go, to kill Tony. I said, what is that? And I went on. Really? I had no clue. I had no idea what it was. Are you not online at all? No, I didn't know anything about that stuff. How do you stay offline? Well, I go online now because I started a podcast. I'm trying to emulate you, but you've been an inspiration. Thank you, by the way. But I didn't know about all that stuff. And so they asked me to go on and I did my first set with Tony. And I think you watched it. It was the one where I had the checkbook. Oh yeah. And then Tony, when we, when they finished the show, he goes, "Oh, you're gonna be guest of the year." I go, "What are you talking about?" And then I was guest of the year. And then it just sorta all this stuff. And now I'm about to shoot a movie with Tony as my star.

I'm gonna direct a movie with him.

Was it Madison Square Garden where you were pulling the things outta your pants?

Yeah, the limes. I said I had Lyme disease and I pulled the limes out. Yeah.

What about when you pull a trophy outta your pants?

Yeah, an Oscar. That's when I won guest of the year. I love to pull stuff out of my pants, apparently. What is the movie you and Tony are doing? So, uh, my next movie that I'm writing and directing is called Rednecks, and we're gonna, uh, shoot in September, October with Tony as the star. And I don't know if you'd do any acting anymore, but I want to offer you a part. I don't know if you're interested. Yeah, you don't like it anymore? No, you got no interest anymore?

Maybe if I could kill it for a day, just run in and do it in a day. Really? Yeah. Something easy.

Be fun to have you.

Where are you going to film it?

We're going to shoot in Florida and Kentucky. Jesus. What if I got you for 3 days? Would you do it?

What else would I do? We'll talk. Let's talk afterwards. Okay. I really don't like acting.

I know.

I don't have any time either.

That's also part of the problem.

I know. Like time is, my time is rationed. I get it. Yeah.

Do you still have the passion to act at all or no? Is it, yeah.

I never really had it in the beginning. Yeah. I only did it for money. Yeah, like I loved stand-up and I loved, you know, going to clubs and doing— and then I got a development deal. It was that simple. Yeah, and all of a sudden I'm on TV. I'm like, all right. Yeah, but it was good that I never had a dream for it because then it— I didn't have a lot of anxiety about it. Yeah, you know, it was more like it was fun to do. Yeah, me too, because I was always like, I'm just gonna go do stand-up like this.

Yeah, I was the same way.

Yeah, it's better that way because the people that like where it's their, oh my god, it's happening. It's like so overwhelming for them. Like, I see people have anxiety when they're about to do their scenes, and I was like, Jesus, man, chill out. Well, we're so used to performing in front of audiences. Yeah. That for some people, the moment, like for young actors, the moment when it's like action and you walk in and then you see that crowd, it's overwhelming for some people. Yeah, it is. It's very hard for them to find that comfort level that allows them to perform at the level that they know they can. Yeah, like they might be really good actors, but the feeling is so overwhelming they can't find the rhythm.

You know what the opposite of that was for me? And I don't know if you had this experience. We were used to performing in front of live audiences doing stand-up where they're like reacting immediately. We do a joke, they laugh. But now when you're doing a movie or TV, suddenly you're in front of an audience who are cameramen and directors and make it, and they just stand there. They don't laugh. Right. And that became like the opposite of what we do. So when I first started doing TV and movies, I'd get anxiety because it's like, well, they're not laughing. They're not reacting. They're just standing there. It was all these technical people. And that freaked me out a little bit, but I had to overcome that.

Yeah. That is weird. If you think it's really funny and then you're saying it and no one's laughing. Yeah.

—because they're just making a movie.

Right, because it's not like the cameras are there by themselves. There's people behind the cameras, and you're doing it for people.

A whole crew, like 50 people will be standing there while you're doing a scene.

With a cigarette in their hand, drinking coffee, shaking their head.

Checking notes. And did that throw you when you first started?

Well, news radio luckily was in front of an audience. Yeah, that's true.

But between the audience and you was all those people. I was— and cameras.

Yeah, but the people laughed at all the jokes. Okay, good. They were good, you know, if they're good jokes. But so that was, to me, was like a different way of delivering jokes. Yeah, it was, it was still— it was fun. Yeah, it was. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed sitcom. But the only way to do it right is to have really good writers, and that's hard to find, man. Like, NewsRadio had that, and really good performers. But if you're on a bad one, you're in hell. You're in hell and you're just collecting checks. Yeah. And you're just— Good checks though. Good checks. That's the problem. Yeah. That's the problem. The velvet prison. Yeah. Those are the guys that wind up doing drugs. The guys that are on a show that they hate. Yeah. They— Yeah. You go straight Two and a Half Men. Fucking Charlie Sheen in it. Oh yeah. It's part of it. And part of it is just like you're in that lifestyle anyway. Yeah. You're wired. But part of it is also like, I don't want to do this. Yeah. You know, yeah, I experienced that. I don't want to do a sitcom.

I'm bored. I'm bored with these lame punchlines. And next thing you know, you're smoking crack and running from the cops.

You know what I realized too is with these sitcoms, it's, they all keep borrowing the same premise. Like I did 3 different sitcoms and it's like, oh, now we're doing the episode where, uh, the lead guy is somehow dating an S&M queen. And now we're doing the episode where Jim gets his car stolen. Like, you start to realize, like, there's about 40 different episodes, but they all just insert them and sort of change them a little. And it's really very weird. It's like a recipe.

So many premises.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, well, that's just the uncreative ones. I mean, that's why Curb Your Enthusiasm was so amazing. They didn't repeat any premises. That show was fucking incredibly creative and bizarre and no audience. That's right.

Another one, no audience. Yeah. But the ones, the ones that, that were fresh were the ones that didn't— it was more like the traditional sitcoms that just plugged in the premises. And it was like, it's like, oh my God, I've already done this.

There's, but there's something to that form where it's done, when it's done really well, it is very enjoyable. It's very comforting. Like I always thought, like I saw clips of The Big Bang. I never watched The Big Bang until I started watching it with my kids. And I'm like, this is a fucking very funny show. It's like a really good show with like very defined characters, really well made. And I had this prejudice of it, I think, because I had seen some clips where they were doing like retakes and there's no audience. So they're saying the jokes with no laughs behind them. It just seems kind of lame. But everything seems lame. Yeah, that— yeah, yeah, yeah. Retakes of NewsRadio seemed lame too while we were doing them. Yeah. But when I watched the show, I was like, there's something comforting about this kind of a show, and I wish they still did them. They don't do them anymore.

They're dead. They're dying. They're gone.

Miss Pat is the only one that I know of that has an actual sitcom right now.

Like a 3-cam? Mm-hmm. She's got a live audience sitcom.

Wow. Yeah. I don't think anybody else does, or if they do, I don't know about it. They used to be fucking common as shit, man.

Yeah, that was the goal. That was the dream, to go get a sitcom.

But isn't it weird that we still enjoy them? Yeah. But yet no one makes them anymore.

Yeah. I think they've been knocked out of contention because they're so set up. Whereas we live in this world now where people just scroll real life.

But why? Because dramas are still on TV. There's still a million NCSI, whatever the fuck those shows are. You know what I mean? There's a million of those shows. That's the Hulk one. Law and Order: Special Victims Unit. There's a million of those shows. So those kinds of same premise shows of cops and lawyers and all that shit, those still exist. The medical examiner shows, the forensic examiner shows, those shows exist. So how come all these, you know, there's a resurgence of rancher shows. Now everyone's a rancher, right? There's 15 rancher shows now. So those shows exist, but no sitcoms.

As the Incredible Hulk once said, me not know why.

I think it's a giant mistake because I think you could make a sitcom right now, whether Paramount Plus does it or one of those organizations that streams. You could make a great fucking multicam sitcom right now.

Yeah. I don't even turn on the TV anymore, though. I think people are being weaned right off of television. We're in a transitional phase. I think that's part of it. You don't watch Netflix? Dude, I rarely ever— when I used to go on the road, I would check into a hotel and turn on the TV right away. I don't think I've turned on a hotel TV in about 6 years. Really? I don't even turn it on. When I go home, I watch my TV maybe once a month, if that. I don't even look at it anymore.

So do you look at your phone?

I look at my phone. That's it. That's it. It's bizarre. I'm even weirded out by it. It's like, what am I doing?

You never sit down and watch a movie?

Rarely. It's very rare.

Should do that. Should watch a movie. I know.

They're very entertaining. People should watch my new movie. Can I say something about it?

You don't watch movies and you make them? Yeah. You know how fucking crazy that is?

Yeah. What's wrong with you? I'm crazy. I'm crazy, all right. What is your new movie? Do you mind me talking about it?

Please do.

Are you sure? 100%. I wrote, directed, and starred in a new movie that just came out a few days ago called Wingman. And it's on streamers, Apple TV, and it's on Prime, Prime Video. And I play a crazy wingman that helps people get laid. Nice. Yeah. And it's with Jamie Kennedy, Russell Peters, Kayla Wallace, Evan Marsh. Oh, nice. Shiva Nagar.

And did you make this yourself?

Well, we made it with a, with a studio, Stardust Pictures up in Canada with David Lipper and Justin Levine and It's a full-on, full-on movie we shot up in Canada. Nice. Yeah, really proud of it, and, uh, and I hope people check it out. I hope you check it out.

Yeah, I'll check it out if you promise to watch movies every now and then yourself.

I'll do it if you promise to be in my next movie and we'll watch it together. It's an offer. Okay, we can talk. Okay, I'm excited. I'd love to see you get back in to do a little acting.

I like that there are comedy movies I really did. Yeah, that's nice.

Well, that's the one with— I'm gonna do with Tony is full-on. That's why I'm sort of asking you, cuz I want to see you get your comedy face in there again. What is it about? It's about a redneck culture. Mm-hmm. And this is the part where you really love it, cuz I know you love vehicles. It centers around something called a mud bog, where guys in Florida jack up their pickup trucks and drive through mud for 3 days. It's not monster trucks. They just drive through mud and jump and spray. And then the other part of the movie takes place in those airboats that drive through all the marshes in Florida. And you would be the mayor of this town and get into it with Tony, who becomes one of these mugbot guys. So you'd be around all this shit.

Good Lord, Florida is a different part of the world.

Isn't it wild? Look at these fucking cars.

That's crazy. You got an old Camaro. Yeah, this is what they did. Jacked up on Johnny Depp.

Tell me you wouldn't like to be around that, Joe. Scroll back up, please. It's so fun. So the movie's—

Digging into the world of mud bogging in north central Florida. Yeah.

So Tony's going to be the lead guy who tries to win the whole mud bog thing. But meanwhile, the mayor, which would be you, wants him out of town because he's such a redneck. He doesn't like the culture. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. Look at that.

Florida is so different. This is such a different place. Yeah. God. So we're gonna have fun doing that.

But yeah, thank you for letting me mention Wingman.

No, it's awesome, dude.

It's when you do an indie project, it helps to be able to talk about it. So thank you.

If you got an offer after this show to do a sitcom, would you consider doing it? And if someone said, listen, I think we could bring back the multicam sitcom, but we want you to star in it, Harlan.

I would if it was— if it's all about the material. Yeah. 'Cause me and you were older. I think as we get older, it becomes about how do we want to dedicate our time? I'm not interested in just doing, oh, I got a sitcom. It's got to have meaning to me. Of course. It's got to be something where I think— Yeah, but if you could help create it.

Oh yeah. That's what I'm saying. 100%. All those guys that used to work on all those shows like Seinfeld and Friends, and they have to still be out there in the world.

Oh yeah.

Isn't that nuts? Yeah. Like, can you imagine? Imagine back in the '90s when everybody wanted a sitcom, when we were first coming out. Up, if you said, you know, one day there'll be no more sitcoms, you'd be like, what the fuck are you talking about? You would have never believed that. If you went into these rooms where they're making Sex and the City and The Single Guy and all these rooms, hey guys, enjoy it while you can. Yeah, because in a couple of decades there's gonna be zero sitcoms on television. They would have just laughed. Yeah, they would have kicked you out of that office. Get the fuck out of here, you don't know what you're talking about. Meanwhile, that's true. Well, this is why I love—

I hate— I'm just gonna go back to quickly AI because it shows we're evolving. You know, remember, Joe, at one point movies were black and white. They didn't have sound. Really? Yeah, yeah, they were— they— and then talkies came and color and digital. And so I love it that every form of our entertainment is evolving and becoming I'm saying there's stuff gonna come that we don't even know, which I love.

Me too. Yeah. But I think sitcoms didn't have to go away. That's what I'm saying.

Yeah, maybe not, but maybe so. Like the new way, like your daughters probably don't wanna sit down for half an hour.

They love sitcoms. They do. They watch old ones. Okay.

Well, I was wrong. I was really wrong. I'm hurting.

Me and my youngest, we sat through the entire season. I mean the entire, all seasons of Big Bang Theory. The Big Bang Theory. That was me and my family. We watched that one. Huh. Yeah, my wife and my— and then we watched Young Sheldon, which was the next version of it. Young Sheldon was really good. It was, it was a single-cam show. Yeah, it was on Netflix, and it was Sheldon as a young kid. It was the genius kid as a young boy. Yeah, very funny show, but totally different. Like, really cute, sweet show, but not in front of a live audience. And I think there's something— I loved doing NewsRadio. I really did. Yeah. And— but it was just because it was an insanely talented cast, and we were all like brothers and sisters. We were— we had so much fun.

Family.

For 5 years we worked together, and we got drunk all the time, and we— it was so silly. Yeah. It was such a fun set.

It's like summer camp. Yeah, it was really fun.

It was really— and the show, I think, was really good. Yeah, it did well. And also, here's the best part, it was never really successful. Which was great because none of us got really rich or famous from that show. It was really— it was, it was always like not doing so well in the ratings. We got moved 9 times in 5 years. And this is back before the internet, so you couldn't like send out a tweet, hey, we're on Sunday nights now. Wow. You know, and it was back also when nobody had— this is a new—

I just saw this trailer the other day.

This is a spin-off from Big Bang Theory, but it's not a— it's like, you know, in front of an audience sitcom. And it's not multicam either, I suppose, but it was popping up.

Oh, no shit.

Yeah, it's called Stewart Fails to Save the Universe. But it's a new show, you know. Okay. Comedy.

It is a 30-minute show, kind of. So it's in that universe.

Yeah, yeah, even like the logo is like that same kind of.

Oh, it's on HBO. Yeah. Nice. Wild. Yeah. Huh, who's created more bangers than that Chuck Lorre guy?

Oh my god, yeah, that guy's created so many big sitcoms.

He did look— he was Big Bang Theory. What's that?

An article he wrote, or I just read interviewing him, said that those shows kind of died because like The Office and Curb kind of killed it. Interesting.

Single camera stuff. Yeah, no audience.

Yeah, I'm also thinking I wouldn't want to go sit and watch a taping of a show right now. How much would they have to pay an audience to do that, right?

Well, you only have to pay the audience until the show becomes successful.

True. Yeah, I guess people would want to go.

Yeah, you don't really want a paid audience because they're not as much fun. Like NewsRadio in the beginning, nobody knew who the fuck we were, but by season 3, the audience was NewsRadio fans. Yeah, and it became a totally different thing. It was really fun. And Phil Hartman used to do stand-up. Oh nice. He had talked about doing stand-up in the clubs, but he would do— he was really good at impressions. He would do Bill Clinton impressions. Yeah, he had bits, little things he would run. And he would just do it for fun. And, you know, we talked about him actually doing it in clubs, and he thought about doing it. But it was— the whole thing was silly. Like, Andy Dick would address the audience. He would— people would answer questions. We had a good warm-up guy. It was like a party that was going on. Everybody had a great time. And that was after the show, you know, caught its gear. But it never was popular until it became syndicated. Then it was in syndication, then it became really popular.

At least yours was sort of popular. Every week they'd put out the top 100, and my sitcom was always number 99 or 100. So at least yours was probably up in the top 30.

No. One day, Lou Morton— Lou Morton was one of our writers, and Lou every week would show up with a t-shirt with a number on it that he would draw with Magic Marker of what we were. And one day he showed up and it said 88. I go, 88? He goes, yep. I go, no. He goes, yeah.

I go, fuck, dude, I was 100 every week.

Well, what network were you on? The WB. We were on NBC.

Yeah, okay, so WB didn't have affiliates all across the country. We only had like 60%.

88 at NBC is you're barely alive.

But still, 100 hurts. Yeah, 100.

Well, they always, always tell us, don't worry, we're not worried about the numbers. We know you got to find your audience again. Now you're on Monday Night Raw. Night. Yeah, it used to be on Sunday. And one time we were on Thursday night, we were in the Friends sandwich. So it was Friends and Seinfeld, which Paul Sims, the executive producer of NewsRadio, famous called the shit sandwich because in between Friends and Seinfeld you would have like Caroline in the City and these shows that weren't as good.

Do you want to hear about salt in the wound? Yeah. So mine was— show was number 100. Okay, it was called Simon. It was me. I was the star. I played Simon. Jason Bateman played my brother. Look at that. And the lead girl, Andrea Bendewald, we ended up dating. She became my girlfriend. Her best friend was Jennifer Aniston. She lived with Jennifer. So I would go and stay at Jennifer's house every night. Night with my girlfriend. We were like Three's Company, and I'd have to sit there and watch Friends with Jennifer, the number one show, while me and Andrea were at the bottom at number 100. It was like, oh, I mean, love Jennifer, was so happy, but talk about salt in the wound. It was like, oh damn.

Isn't it crazy though? But you're on TV, you're living the dream. This is one of those—

great, it was great.

The earliest social media was the Variety magazine and The Hollywood Reporter.

Yeah.

That was like the same thing where these people would compare themselves to everybody else. Yeah. And they would look at the rankings and I would show up on the set and, you know, like all these people love to read those things and they were reading those things and I started calling them the devil's rag. I go, why are you reading the devil's rag? I go, 'cause they were, we were complaining like, I can't believe we're number 36. If we were on, you know, Thursday night, we would be number 2 or number 1 or whatever. And I go, last time I checked, I'm on TV. Yeah, we're on TV. We're on TV on NBC. There's not a lot of people that get to be on TV. Yeah, like, this is great. We're living the dream. So we're not number one. Like, you guys are reading that and you're forgetting how many people that you're friends with that are going on auditions right now that would kill to be on NBC. But it's the devil's rag. It's the same thing that happens with, you know, you say, well, I just got a new car, I'm pretty happy.

And then, oh, Jeff Bezos got a yacht.

Fuck! I'll be honest, I was like you. I was like, I'm on TV. But I gotta tell you, as we got deeper into the season and I had to sit there beside Jennifer Aniston and watch her number one show every week, and old 100 is sitting beside her, I gotta say it, it started to seep in where you're just like, fuck, I'm on TV. You know, it's sort of like there were days when I was just You could feel it, not blaming her, but just the business. It was hard to sit at one end and see the other, but that's the way it works.

It's the way it is, but you gotta really just be happy to be on TV. Oh, it's great.

You're winning the lottery. Yeah, you won the lottery.

You just didn't win the Mega Powerball.

Yeah, and I loved it. I got to work with Jason, and I was the star of my— I came from the suburbs of Toronto. Never thought I'd do anything. Here I am, I'm the star of my own sitcom, Simon. I'm like, this is unbelievable. Yeah, I share your attitude.

Yeah, yeah, and there's a lot of them that don't work, man. Yeah, I was on the set and we were there like, so you'd go to Sunset Gower and there'd be a bunch of other places that were next to you. Yeah, and I'd go visit with all those guys because like a lot of them were my friends. Lenny Clark was right down the street and he was on the John Larroquette Show. Do you remember that?

Yeah, I got a little story about that when you're done. Please go ahead, tell me. Are you sure you don't want to finish? Did John Larroquette yell at you?

So before I got my own sitcom sitcom.

So I was in Hollywood, I did two auditions. I did one for Ellen DeGeneres's first show, it was called These Friends of Mine, and I was a guest star on the show with Molly Shannon. And then my second audition was for the John Larroquette Show, and I went in and auditioned, and the feedback to my agents was John said, this guy wants his own sitcom. And I said to my agents, I said, you're damn right I do. And the next gig I got was my own sitcom. Oh, that's hilarious. Chick Chair is pretty cool.

So you think he didn't like you because you wanted your own sitcom, or he thought you were too good for his show because you want your own sitcom?

I think he must have sensed I walked in there with attitude or cockiness, which I didn't. I just did the audition, but he must have been reading my vibe somehow. Well, that's you. Yeah.

So people that don't— that's how you walk. Like, people that don't You, this Harlan, you've always been like this. I have. From the moment I met you. Yeah. You've always been like this very happy, very confident guy. You never look rattled to do a show. No, no. You always look like you're having a good fucking time. Oh yeah. All of us, like, there was moments where everyone had a big show and you're like, fuck, real nervous. You were never like that. No. You were always like happy-go-lucky. Yeah. I don't know one person that doesn't like you.

You.

Oh wow, you know how crazy that is? I'm not even married, but do you know how crazy that is? Like, I know every comic that I know has a comic that they don't get along with, that they hate. Yeah, someone hates them or they hate them, or there's some fucking— fuck that guy, that guy's a piece of shit, his comedy sucks. No one says that about you. Do you know how amazing that is?

That's— I'm— that's a blessing.

We were talking about that in the green room one day. We were talking about in the green room because it was after after you came on with Demetri. I was— I told everybody I was howling. He waited the whole show before he pulled his fucking snake out of his pants. By the way, that snake sat right in front of Donald Trump when he was here.

I loved it. I told you that.

I know you did. So that conversation that we had in the green room was like, who the fuck do you know that doesn't like Harlan? And we all sat around and talked about it. There's no one. Aww. You are— you are like the most universally loved comedian that I know.

Oh my God.

I have to defend Tony to everyone.

Everybody. Yeah, Tony.

Yeah, he's a great guy. Yeah, he's a great guy. Yes. Yeah, it's just like in that world, you have to understand the roast world. Like, that is not the real world, kids. That is— yeah, you're going for blood, you know? Like, if you're in a cage fight and you elbow someone in the face, it's not because you're a bad person. You have to— that is— that's your job. That's the game we're playing.

If you don't do it, you're, you're, you're letting yourself down. You've got to go in and fight.

Yeah, that's the game we're playing. These are the rules that we're under. Yeah, we're all talking Yeah, you know, yeah, it's— and so when you see people complain about it, yeah, say, I understand the general public that's not aware what roasts are, because the reality of roasts are, especially for like if you're a 22-year-old kid, the last time there were roasts on television before the Tom Brady roast was literally 10 years ago. Yeah, like, do you remember the Charlie Sheen roast, the Donald Trump roast, the Comedy Central roast? They used to have them all the time. All the time. They were a long time ago. Yeah, it's a long time in the zeitgeist. Yeah, so those things don't exist to kids. To kids, comedy is joking about stuff. Comedy is Chris Rock. Comedy is Kevin Hart. Comedy is Louis C.K. That's what they think of comedy is. They don't even understand the jokes. Like, that this is— roast jokes are fucking mean. They've always been fucking mean.

They can be cruel too. Personal, ruthless.

Go back and watch all those old Comedy Central roasts. They were fucking brutal. They were brutal. Patrice would just eviscerate the entire fucking stadium. Those things— the thing is, like, if you're a person and you're not accustomed to roasts and you don't get why those jokes are so mean, I get it. But comedians, comedians that are getting upset about these roast jokes, fuck all the way off. Just fuck all the way off. All the way? You fucking traitor. All the way off. You know what this is. You know exactly what this is. You're a fucking traitor. You're just using this moment to try to boost yourself up, to try to like knock down what's happening in these— you could disagree with the content, you could say, I think they went too far with this, I don't think— but this fucking pretending that these people are actual racists and Nazis just because they're telling these jokes that are in a roast, like fuck all the way off.

Yeah, don't suit up, go out and play hockey if you don't want to play hockey. Yeah, like sit on the bench. Yeah, and don't badmouth the people playing hockey. Yeah, it is what it is. What it is. And that's the game.

That's the game we're playing. We're playing this ruthless— and by the way, you know who didn't have a problem with it? Kevin fucking Hart. Yeah, Kevin fucking Hart has defended every single person that said horrible shit about him, about him being lynched from a bonsai tree and all the craziest shit that they said.

Well, you know who else didn't have a problem with it is the people, the corporations that put it on corporate television, on corporate airwaves. So there's a subsection of the foundation of where these— the platform that they're given, they didn't care about it either. They wouldn't do it.

So they knew from the Tom Brady roast how powerful those things are, right? The Tom Brady roast was the number one watched thing in Netflix history. Wow. There's more than 55 million people watch that thing.

I gotta say, I'm not the hugest fan because I don't love cruel humor as much, but, but I do love it that that Tom Brady roast I feel like it kicked wokeness over the cliff like those buffalo. We were getting so woke and we needed that roast to sort of course correct.

There's two things that killed woke. Number one, Kid Rock gunned down a whole fucking stack of Bud Light cans. I love that. That was it. That was so good. That might have been it. Oh, that was gorgeous. That might have been it because then they got to see the real real financial consequences of being fucking completely insane. Yeah. That people were fed up. Yeah. Like, enough. Yeah. And Kid Rock saying fuck you, Anheuser-Busch, like, yeah, that is— yeah, that's a big hit to the stock price. And then people realize, oh, this is a micro set of people that are very loud, but it's not the macro. It's not— it's not— it's not the general population.

It's even smaller than micro. Yeah, it's— it's like micro micro.

Not only that, but the people that were in it, a lot of them abandoned abandonship. Yeah, a lot of abandonment.

Virtue signaling is done.

They just realized they got caught up in a thing that was like the way people were behaving, and so they imitated what was going on in their social groups. It's a normal thing that people do, but it just— it wasn't rational, and that's why it got shot down by Kid Rock.

By the way, what kind of gun did he use? I don't know guns. I bet you know what he used.

I think he used an AR. If we go back and look at it, it's an assault rifle.

Rifle. Is it like automatic? Semi-automatic.

I mean, maybe he used an automatic. He's in Tennessee. They have some solid gun laws.

He just blasted away. You kind of have whatever you want. How many in a clip for an AR, do you know?

It's called a magazine. See, I don't know.

I don't know. Canadian. I don't know anything about guns. They vary. A magazine.

They took all your guns up there in Canada.

Well, we never had them.

So what is he shooting there? Wow. Look at that. Yeah. Let's see the video of him doing it and I can kind of tell you better. That's wild. Kid Rock shoots back at Bud Light. How many views does this have? How many views does this video have?

Some news reporting of it. I don't mean to— he didn't post it on YouTube.

Look at this. Oh man. Okay. That's an AR, I think.

That's the magazine.

But it might be a fully automatic.

That's not a clip.

Let me hear it, please. Yeah, I think that's fully automatic. Yeah, that's fully automatic, 100%. Wow. So he has, uh, some kind of machine gun.

I want to go out, I want to shoot up a 6-pack of Dr Pepper just for fun. I love Dr Pepper, but now I want to shoot some pop.

Why don't you just go shoot something you don't like? Because it's kind of symbolic of something you're trying to kill.

Wolves. Yeah, I love wolves. You want to shoot a wolf? We're not going back to the woods.

Depends on where they are. Forget it. Listen, if wolves are in the mountains and they're just being wolves and they're eating elk and deer, and I'm all for wolves. I'm not an anti-wolf person, but I think you shouldn't bring them into residential neighborhoods and drop them off in ranches.

I think that's fucking ridiculous. I'm bringing you back.

But I think that wolves in the wild are important. Yeah, I'm not an anti-wolf person. I just don't like people doing what I call ballot box biology, where you get people to decide by voting that are never gonna experience these wolves. Do you think we should reintroduce wolves to Colorado? And all these people that just got back from Whole Foods like, "Yeah, that would be amazing. I heard it's gonna help the sprouts grow." And they vote yes, and then these poor lambs are getting eaten alive.

Have you shot a wolf?

No, no, I don't want to hunt wolves. I don't— I mean, I would shoot a wolf if I thought the wolf was like endangering my family. Yeah, of course. Trying to kill my dog or something like that. But I love wolves. I don't not like wolves. I think they're awesome. I think they're awesome.

Have you ever heard a wolf howl in the wild? No. It's very haunting. It's very ghostly. Even more, I know you've heard coyotes, but a wolf has this long howl. It's almost, I can see why Native Americans are so spiritually connected to it. It's very ghostly and it's spiritual almost. It's a very beautiful sound.

No, they're amazing animals.

That's pretty good. Sort of like that.

Ooh!

Argh!

You know if you do that— I had a friend who had wolves.

Sorry, it slipped. Yeah. I had a friend who had wolves.

And if you do that in his house, they start howling.

Oh yeah? Yeah, they go nuts.

Yeah, I would go over his house and— Father, wow, what a wild animal. They're amazing. Crazy noise. Look, they're incredible. They're incredible.

That's, that's so awesome. I saw one.

And by the way, they're important to keep populations. I just don't think you should reintroduce them them to fucking Aspen, you assholes.

I don't know, it might be fun to see a pack of Timbers taking down a skier, like Charlie Sheen coming down the hill with Denise Richards and you think 12 Timberwolves like take them down. And there was a movie, rip out their—

there was a movie about that called Frozen. Not like the let it go.

Oh yeah, it was with Liam Neeson.

No, that was The Gray. The, the Frozen movie.

Someone knows their movies.

It's a hard— I know all all the Wolf movies. It's a horror movie about these kids that are, uh, skiing, and they get stuck on a ski lift because they forget they're up there, and there's wolves down there. Okay, they get killed. So the guy falls and his legs break, and then the wolves come and get them.

See, you're gonna get mad at me, but I don't— a movie like this one scare me because I just know wolves to be skittish like this.

You're out of your mind. Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about.

If you're injured like lions uh, leopards, jaguars— like, forget it, they'll take you down. But my experience with wolves is they're more skittish around humans. But I don't want to get into it again. We can go to Arby's later and have a fight.

You have a broken leg like that guy did in this movie. Oh yeah, then bleeding, and they can smell it. Okay, they're tearing them apart right now. Look at— watch, watch it. They're eating them. They're eating them. They're killing the man. Is that Denise Richards?

No. Oh, it looks like Drew Barrymore.

They live live. Also, spoiler alert, no wolves in New Hampshire. It's all bullshit.

Oh yeah, there probably was at one point.

Yeah, they killed them all because they were killing people and livestock.

Yeah, yeah, idiots.

You know how they killed them too? Most of them they poisoned. What they would do is they would inject strychnine into horses and leave the horse carcass and then they would all die.

Wow, they did a lot of trapping too, those cruel— the, uh, oh yeah, the snap traps. Yep, they did that I knew some old trap guys up when I worked up north, and these guys— you might not want to hear this, but the way they'd take them out is they'd trap them in the leg traps, and then they didn't want to damage the pelt, so then they walk up to them while they're trapped and they just club them. They club them to death.

Like how they club seals like that. Yeah, yeah. Oh, horrible.

Yeah, that's— I don't like that.

The clubbing seals, man, was rough.

That was rough. You ever see those videos? And the seals At least a wolf would run away. These seals, they're just laying out sunbathing, and they walk up and just bam, smack and pop their skulls.

I know, and you're doing that for their fur.

And the babies, they'd smack the babies because they had that beautiful white fur. Oh my gosh, these things are like a chromosome away from being a sex toy, they're so cute. Wow.

Wolves are good. Yeah, you just don't want them in your neighborhood.

I do.

Should be in the woods. I love them.

I wouldn't mind if they were around. You say that.

You say that. Do you have a dog? I've had them. What if you came out and your dog was getting eaten alive by wolves?

They eat dogs. I lost a— one of my dogs to coyotes. Yeah, I remember the day you told me your pit bull went up and took out a whole squad of coyotes. No, no, it wasn't my pit bull. Oh, I thought it was yours.

Your neighbors? It was one of my friends who worked at a pet store. It was also worked at a veterinarian's office.

Okay.

And he told me the story about this pit bull that came into the veterinarian's office. It was covered in cuts. Oh, okay.

Yeah, you told me this like, like 10, 15 years ago.

Yeah, it was like one of those, you know, they— there's these companies that take pit bulls and they breed them and make them like 120 pounds. Yeah, keep breeding them bigger. Look like— this was one of those. This thing was a fucking tank. Like a tank. And he said it was covered in cuts. And they asked the guy like, what happened? He goes, I don't know, you know, I came home, he was all fucked up and bleeding. Yeah. So he brings him in, they stitch him up, and then the guy follows the blood trail out into the hills and finds 9 dead coyotes.

I remember you told me that. We were at the store one night and you told me that you just heard it. I was like, wow, that is the nuttiest story. Stayed with me because it was so like crazy.

Went there, he said it looked like Vietnam. Yeah. He goes, there was just Their necks were torn apart. Their fucking legs were broken. Because this pit bull, once he grabs a hold of them, he just starts shaking them. Coyotes weigh like 30 pounds.

Yeah, they're not super big.

But they would do this thing where they would like corner an animal and they would trick it. And the way they would trick it, they would send one animal out there to get chased. Yeah. And so that dog would chase it and they would all come in from the sides and tear it apart.

Yeah. They're really smart that way.

They fucked with the wrong dude. Yeah, wow. Isn't that a crazy story?

I remember that one. You told me that. I was like, that's crazy.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, they're everywhere now.

They're in— Coyotes are everywhere. Everywhere.

Yeah. Oh yeah. They're really cool too. Coyote America, that book by Dan Flores, the same guy who wrote Bison Ecology, Bison Diplomacy, he wrote this amazing book about coyotes where he explains like why they're everywhere. 'Cause gray wolves and coyotes don't breed, but red wolves and coyotes do. That's why you have those coywolves on the East Coast. Yeah. Gray wolves have always killed coyotes. Yeah, yeah. So when gray wolves find coyotes, they kill 'em. And so coyotes are used to being persecuted by the gray wolves, and then they just keep moving to new places. That's what they do. So that's how they made it all the way across the country. So when people were killing coyotes or people were trying to hunt coyotes, They just moved. They just moved to new places. Yeah. Oh, they can adapt.

I see them in my front lawn almost every other week. Yeah. They're everywhere. Yeah. I'm in the Hollywood Hills in there. I see them walking right past my swimming pool.

I mean, it's not cool if you have a dog or a cat because they will eat them, but they are cool. It's a cool animal. Oh, they're really cool. And their howls are wild too. These yips in the middle of the night.

Well, they go off sometimes if there's a fire engine goes by in Hollywood. —yeah, the coyotes will react to it and go off.

They also keep the rats down. Like, so yeah, that's why you don't see a lot of rats. Yeah, they keep the rat population down. Oh yeah, if they, if they killed off all the coyotes, it would have a devastating effect for the ecosystem too. There would be a bunch of shit that would be around all the time now that they're killing and eating.

Yeah, yeah, no, they're, they're cool animals, man. There was a girl— speaking of being killed by wolves— there was a girl in Prince Edward Island about about 12 years ago, I think.

She got killed by coyotes.

She got killed by a pack of coyotes. Yeah, she was out running with her Walkman on, and she was like a promising folk singer.

Yeah, they said that those coyotes were unusual because they were used to killing moose. Moose? Yeah, the coyotes would literally— they were going after bigger game because there wasn't a lot of game there, so they were used to packing together and like taking out the moose by like attacking their legs. Yeah, keep cutting at their legs.

Yeah, until they can't run. Wow, I've never heard of coyotes taking down a moose.

Yeah, we looked it up on the show. This was a very unusual area. Strange. Yeah, and it's one of the reasons why they think these coyotes killed this girl. And she wasn't big, she was small.

She was out jogging. Yeah, but that's the thing, man.

They don't have rules. They don't like, well, we don't fuck with people and people don't fuck with us. But the orcas seem to— they seem to understand what we are. They've saved people. People, even out in the wild, like people that fell overboard, they've saved them.

Yeah, isn't it strange that such a— probably the top predator in the sea next to the sperm whale, the killer whale could take whatever it wants. Yeah. And somehow instinctively it leaves humans alone. I don't really understand it. And that's why I talk about sort of the programming of nature to step around humans somehow, because it doesn't make sense. Humans look like seals, we're the same body shape, the same weight pretty much, and yet orcas— there's no documented kill of a human by an orca.

I know, other than SeaWorld's. Yeah, well, they're so smart and their brains are huge. They have huge brains. We just equate intelligence with your ability to manipulate your environment. Like, so they don't have a house, they don't have cell phones, they must be idiots. But we don't know, and they clearly understand that we're different than everything else.

But that's what I mean. All— I think all the critters do.

Well, we are. Yeah, show some respect, bitch. We're the ones with the guns.

It's biatch. Biatch! Thank you.

I mean, look, we both love animals. Yeah, I know you love animals. I do too. I just love people more.

I love people the same. But if it came to deciding whether we left Earth with humans or animals, I'll be honest, this will sound mean, I'd give it to the animals. Why? Because they don't know cruelty. That's not true. They don't know malice.

Do you know— listen, you're saying— you're talking crazy talk. Do you know how bears kill things? They just eat them. They hold them down, they eat them.

They don't even kill them first. But it's not from cruelty, it's for survival. It doesn't matter, it's still cruel. Humans are cruel. Have you heard of Hiroshima?

Yeah, I have. That was probably less cruel than a bear eating you asshole first.

No, but there's no intent with an animal.

They're just trying to eat you.

An animal doesn't have intent.

Right, but the end result's still the same. If you were getting eaten asshole first by a grizzly bear, you're not thinking, well, he doesn't have intent to be cruel, this is just how he eats me, asshole first is his favorite way to go.

But he has to eat you, he can't go to the grocery store.

A bear doesn't have to eat you, he could kill you first and then eat you like a cat does.

But he doesn't know how, he doesn't realize he's being cruel. We do.

No, no, no, he doesn't care. Right, but he doesn't know how. He could definitely kill you. If you were a bear and they were fighting, he would grab you by the neck and he would kill you like they try to kill each other. But when they eat you, they're not—

they just don't care. Right, well, that's what I mean. There's no malice, whereas humans— But the result is the same.

You're not gonna take comfort in the fact that he doesn't have malice while he's eating your dick.

It's pronounced gourd.

You know that video— well, the audio of Grizzly Man getting eaten? Yeah, 5 minutes long. Oh yeah, it's 5 minutes long of him screaming. Oh, well, this thing's just eating him by grabbing his thighs and pulling chunks out of his thigh.

By the way, they finally just recently released that audio, right? Because in the movie Grizzly Man, the director refused to play it.

No, it's not It's Werner Herzog. He— they destroyed that audio. Yeah, the fake audio that's online, that's just fake.

That's the new one. It's not even new, it's been around forever.

But you listen to it, if you know it's fake, you hear it, you go, oh, this is bullshit. Oh, it sounds fake.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it sounds fake.

Yeah, the point is like, yeah, people are gross and cruel, so are chimps, you know. So what they do to monkeys is fucking horrific. Yeah, you know, I don't know if they're doing it on purpose, but they what they do to people, it seems like they're doing it on purpose when they bite your fingers off and pull your eyeballs out. It seems like they're being cruel, you know. I think it's a primate survival tactic, especially like primates that engage in war, right? Chimps engage in war. You develop cruelty in order to be better at your job.

Yeah, but I think with them, they, they lack emotional cruelty. Cruelty like humans, we have we have the knowledge to know something's bad or good. They just know survival, and we engage in bad, right?

Which makes us— we don't think—

a different kind of cruel.

Yeah, that's a good point.

Yeah, did I just win my first argument? No, I mean, you're right.

I agree with you about that. We have a certain type of cruelty that's not, you know, it's not like any other animal's cruelty because we're aware of how it's gonna affect other people. There you go. Yeah, they're not really aware of it. They just don't care. Yeah. You know, when they do those things where they communicate with chimpanzees, they teach them sign language. You know, they've never had a chimp ask a question. Yeah, right. Interesting. Isn't that interesting? Because they communicate, but they never be like, why are you wearing clothes?

There's not— you know what I mean? I never thought of that. Yeah, that's weird, right? Yeah. Can we get Arby's for lunch? Like, why don't they ever ask for anything?

They don't ask. Yeah, that's—

well, wait, did, did, um, You know what, that's not true. How so? Koko, the gorilla, he would ask for affection. He would ask for love and hugs. I think there's a—

Oh yeah, but that's a request. That's not a question. Like, why am I here?

Oh, okay. What is this building? You're talking more of a philosophical question.

No, I'm talking about having actual curiosity about like its environment. Right, I understand. Why is your skin white and mine is not? What is— Yeah, they're just not aware. How come you don't can't walk on your hands. Yeah, there's no— yeah, you know what I mean? Like, what we call intelligence is very compartmentalized. It's very boxed in in comparison to our intelligence. We have the intelligence to understand this thing probably doesn't like being in the cage. Yeah, they don't think that way. No.

Do you believe in the concept of a missing link, like something in between Homo erectus and Neanderthal and then us, modern day? Is there— what, do you think there's a missing creature.

I think, first of all, the real problem is what's the evidence in terms of the fossil record? It's very incomplete, right? And because it's hard to get fossils, right? Like, for someone to leave a fossil behind, you have to die in mud, or there's very specific conditions. So most animals that die— I think we looked it up before— it's like 99% are never gonna leave a fossil, right? So when they find things like Dennisovans. So the Denisovans, I think they found in the 2010s or something like that. When did they find them? It was more recently than that. Maybe it was more recently than that. So they just found like a tooth and a finger, and then, and then they start finding bones. They're like, hey, this is not like a normal human tooth. This is not like a normal human bone. And then they do DNA tests on them, and then they go, oh, this is different. This is a different type of human. Human. So there's humans that lived alongside humans that we just found out about 10 years ago. Huh. So how many versions of— from ancient hominid to modern Homo sapiens, how many versions were there that we have evidence of?

That's what we don't know.

What's the Homo of this? 2008.

Here it is. Michael Shunkov of the Russian Academy of Sciences and other Russian archaeologists—

oh, what happened? Happen? We just got scrolled, player. What is that? That was weird. We're getting scrolled.

What did it just do? That was so weird. That was so weird. It's like, it's like they didn't want us reading this out loud.

What's the homo we're missing?

Uh, that's a good question. So, um, archeologists from the Institute of Archeology and Ethnography of the Siberian branch of the Russian Academy of Sciences in Novosibirsk, Akad— Demgorodok investigated the cave and found a finger of a juvenile female hominid originally dated from 50,000 to 30,000 years ago. Huh. And then the estimate was changed to 76,000 to 51,000 years ago. Specimen was originally named X-Woman. So anyway, um, the whole thing is they found out this is— go back to that. Um, a novel ancient hominid genetically distinct from both contemporary modern humans and from Neanderthals. So they knew from that that it's a new kind of human. And that's just 2008. Yeah. So this is 18 years ago they found that. So who knows how many ones they could find if they kept— if you had— yeah, there's a limited amount of archeologists that are doing this kind of work. Imagine if you had thousands and thousands of them scouring Asia, scouring Africa, looking There's probably a bunch more that we haven't discovered. Oh, definitely. So this idea of the missing link, I'm not sure if that's accurate. Okay. But then the question is—

I'm glad you said that because it sort of illuminated me a little too. Yeah. I hadn't thought of it in those terms.

2008, a Taiwanese citizen purchased a fossil Homo mandible dredged from the sea floor of the Taiwan Strait from an antique shop and donated to Taiwan's National Museum, the National Science Attempts to extract the DNA were unsuccessful, but in 2025, protein analysis of the specimen designated Pengu-1 was published showing that it belonged to a male Denisovan.

That was just in a shop. I love the missing link was in an antique shop.

Well, that's how they found Gigantopithecus too.

They found— I like that old lamp. I'll take that plate. And how about historic missing link? How much is that? The hell?

I think it's just a different kind of person. Yeah. You know? And then— interesting— if they kept finding more of them, maybe we'd have a better understanding of like what we're talking about. But there's a giant leap, that's for sure. Yeah, it's the biggest mystery in the entire fossil record, is the doubling of the human brain size over a period of 2 million years. Well, nutty, nutty thing that happened.

All of a sudden our brains grew. Well, what's interesting to me too is that you do have some fossilized remains that are very, very, very old that date back to, you know, caveman era stuff, and then we have stuff closer to what we just looked at. But there's that, that one transitional— where you'd think there'd be a transitional creature that they can't seem to find.

Well, they might find it. They might. I hope they do. I think some of these are getting closer. They don't have like a lot of Denisovan bones, but there's going to be a few more that they find, I'm sure, if they keep looking. I bet there was probably a bunch of different kinds of humans. The question is like, why did we succeed? And why are we so much smarter than all the rest of them?

We should go antiquing this weekend, see what we can dig up. I don't think it's that way. Well, according to that, Missy was in an antique shop. I think they bought china, right?

It was a long time ago.

I don't care if they bought china or pottery. I just— let's go in.

I got to wrap this up. Buddy. Yeah. Buddy. Always good to see you, brother.

Great to see you. Thanks for having me, man.

Thank you for being here. Wingman, is it available streaming? Is it available everywhere?

Only streaming, uh, on Apple and Amazon Prime right now all over the world. And then in Canada, we will start streaming the end of June, and they might even do, uh, 60 to 90 theaters up there. So we're excited. Yeah, fuck yeah, dude. Wingman. Yeah.

And good luck with the Tony one too.

That sounds fun. Yeah. And hopefully, maybe we'll see you there.

Hopefully, maybe. Yeah. And congratulations on Guest of the Year. That's awesome.

Also, oh, that was, that was last year. Yeah, it last year. Thank you, buddy. Great to see you. Love you, man. Love you too, brother.

All right, bye everybody.