Transcript of #2402 - Miranda Lambert

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I hate it by the desk. The desk is a mess because my mind is a mess.

I wish my mind was a mess. You're a creative. That's how it works. Is that how it works? Yeah, I think so. Is that the excuse we use? I don't know. I'm trying to make myself feel better.

I think that's the excuse we use for each other.

Yeah. I'm like, I'm a creative. It's my go-to default.

Is the compression on? Something sounds weird. It's just really loud. Something happened. Maybe my ears got better. What happened?

You can hear now? My ears aren't very good.

Sometimes when I'm underwater for too long or I swim or something like that, and then I forget that my ears have water in them. And then they come out like, oh, there's that moment where like, oh, this is how I hear.

I feel like I have the in-ear monitors for my job. Oh, right. I've been using them for, I don't 20 years. I'm still not used to them. I come from honky-tonk world where you can hear everything, hear the room.

Well, it's so good that people have them now because, boy, so many people I know from back in the day are almost deaf.

Oh, yeah. I'm so glad we have them. It's not the same. I mean, you don't feel the energy of the room, but it saved your hearing, which is helpful.

It's a good trade-off. You can hear enough. It's a good trade-off. And so many of my friends who shoot guns, too. Same thing. They started hunting when they were kids and no ear protection back then. And you say something to them and they're like, What? They're all half deaf.

Yeah. My dad was a police officer, and I swear that's why my parents are still married because he can't hear it all. The dog ate his hearing aid, he never replaced it. I'm like, Is that on purpose, dad?

That's hilarious. Yeah, you definitely develop an ability to shut things off. Yeah. Otherwise, because men and women think and communicate differently. And if you want your wife to communicate with you the way your buddies do, then you married a dude. Yeah. Okay? So if you want to be married to a woman, you have to listen. You have to listen. You have to listen. And everything- With both ears. And sometimes it's like a roundabout journey to get to the point, and you can't go, What the fuck are you talking about? Because they're like, Oh, my God, why are you so hostile? So you have to go, Okay.

Selective hearing.

Yeah, selective hearing.

But my husband will like, I'll say it, and I'll be like, Say it back to me. I found that when I do that, it's worse. I'm like, Say what I said back to you. Get bananas at the store. So he comes home, I'm like, Where's bananas? I didn't get any. So don't repeat it. Just hold it in there.

That's hilarious. He blocked it out for himself. Yeah, exactly. That's very funny. The hearing thing is nuts that no one knew. It just makes you wonder. I wonder when people were that loud music was going to kill your hearing?

I don't know. I've had the in-ears for a long time, and they did save all of our ears. But it's like, I think that... And then the longer you go, still, even though I have those, I turn them up way too loud. Oh, do you? I'm missing the energy.

Do you ever just say, Fuck it for this show?

Take one out. Sometimes when it's a house band, you just get to use wedges. I'm like, Yes, this is amazing. What's a wedge? It's just a little on stage monitor. You know what I mean? But it's just so loud. I mean, it's so loud. I do mounted shooting.

I saw that. That's crazy.

It's a good reminder. The first time I took off on the first... I just started last year. I'm not good at all, but I love it. I took off on my horse and I forgot to wear earplugs, and I was like, Well, I'm a musician. I should probably plug my ears when I'm shooting a revolver off of a horse.

Yeah, but is it a Have all were using a regular bullet?

No.

No?

It's black powder.

Just the powder itself? Yeah.

So it's spectator safe, horse safe.

So it just sprays- Sprays powder.

Powder in air? At the balloon.

And it pops balloons? Yeah. At what distance?

It could shoot, I think, 15.

Yards? Feet. Oh, okay. So you're just riding around the horse popping balloons?

I love it. I do.

What was the origin of that sport?

I don't know, actually. One of my best friends, her name is Kenda Lonsane, and she lives out in Scottsdale. She's like the 10-time world champion.

Whoa, whoa, hold on. There's a world Championship of popping balloons on a horse?

Yeah, it's called mounted shooting, and cowboy mounted shooting, but she's a cowgirl, and she's like, Guys, girls, everybody. She's a badass. And I became friends with her, and I just never had the guts to go do it. And finally my husband was like, Stop talking about it and go out there and do it. Go out there and shoot with her. You're going to love it. And I got addicted immediately. It was just like something different.

Well, it's very Wild West, right? Oh, yeah. It's essentially training how to fight with a gun on a horse. Yeah.

That's all it is. Except it's the balloon as the perpetrator.

But I mean, that's how you would train, right? Without killing people. It's super fun.

And it's like just something that started a new hobby at 40. It's just trying to preoccupy my mind. I don't know. I think it inspires me to take a break from thinking about what I think about every single day, which is music industry. So Just like, trying new things and saying, what the hell? Let's go for it.

I think that's very good for artists. I try to talk to comedians about that all the time. I'm like, pick up something, man.

Yeah, hobbies are important.

Play golf, go fishing, do something. For me, I play pool. Do something. You have to do something.

I just started golf, too. I'm in my Try New Things era. There you go.

Did you Try New Things era?

Yes. My Yes era. Sure, I'll do it. Started golf. Not too great yet, but I did. I just played the Ryder Cup. Oh, Nice. They had a celebrity. Somebody heard I played golf, and when they heard that, I literally started that day.

Jamie's a nut. Jamie's a full-on golf nut.

I literally was cramming my ass off this September because I was on tour all summer, and I didn't have time to practice. And you know how that feels like golf is you have to practice.

Do you have a coach?

I had a coach, yes. Dan, I have a coach, and he came with me as my caddy. Very helpful. But it was an experience. It was a lot of pressure.

Did you feel it, even though nobody expected you to win?

Yeah. I mean, I just felt like, what the hell have I done when I got there? It's like doing something you don't do in front of people.

A lot of people. But you do it. You just don't do it a lot.

Yeah. I do things in front of people, but it's singing.

You do things in front of people and you're really good at it. That's the difference.

That's the thing, doing something that you suck at in front of people is a very scary place to be.

Right. Jamie has OJ Simpson's golf clubs. No. It's a couple Not all of them. I have a few. How many do you have? It's not really awesome at all. They're haunted.

Whatever you're into.

How many you got? Three? No, I got a whole set.

Do you use them?

I have used one of them.

Did you hit well?

I have. That's why I use it.

Why are they blessed or cursed?

Well, he bought it as a goof. It's just fun to talk about. It's a fun conversation starter. It came up. Did you get him after he died? Yeah, I got him like six months ago. I forgot. I forgot when he died. A couple of years ago.

Well, that's cool. I mean, hey.

I guess. But it is really important having some a thing that you do to take your mind off of the business because the people that I know where their mind is only on show business, whatever it is, music, comedy, whatever it is, they go crazy. You can eventually get lost in your own little world. You need a little break.

You do. And I think it's like, especially if you're a writer, you got to go live to write about Or what are you writing about? Same shit you already said. It's like, I need to go live a life and gather information and be around different people and open my circle up to just, I don't know. Different experiences. It's a different environment.

Yeah. My friend Ari does that. He disappears for three months every year and a half or so. He gets rid of his phone, gets rid of his email. He goes off-grid. Oh, he goes off-grid. He goes to Asia. He backpacks through Asia. And he's famous. He's a He's a famous comedian, and he doesn't give a fuck. He just goes and vanishes. We can't find him. No one knows where he is. I don't hear from him for three, four months. I just hope he's alive.

Does it change him?

Oh, yeah. He comes back weird. He's weird already. He's weird as fuck. Weirder. He's weirder when he comes back because he's been living in foreign countries for a long time.

Well, I'm just shooting balloons and swinging a golf club. Nothing as cool as that.

But the thing you're doing, the thing about both of those things is they require all of your focus while you're doing. I mean, if you're riding a giant animal while you're shooting a gun, there's no room for thinking about, Oh, I got to do laundry. You're just doing that thing only. Yeah.

That's what I think I loved about it and got addicted to. You I guess I don't really have... I always say I don't have an adrenaline junkie in me, but I guess I have to have a little bit for joining the circus like I did. Yes, you do.

It's joining the circus.

Yeah, but I think that just the focus and the little jolt that you get of the same how we get after a show. I still guess I need that, but just in a different form.

Yeah. Joining the rodeo. There's something about shooting at things, too. I do archery, and there's something about shooting at things that also just really cleans your mind. Because in that moment, while you're pulling a trigger, there's no room for anything else. If you're trying to hit a target, there's There's no room for anything else. And it pushes all that stuff away. It gives you a little mental vacation.

Yeah, 100 %.

And then you come back cleaner.

What bow are you shooting?

I shoot a compound bow. Compound bow? Yeah. The Hoyt?

Yeah. I used to shoot I have it a long time. Oh, really? I got him back out during 2020, went out all the time in the world. My husband's from New York City, so I was like, I got these bowls. I'll teach you how to shoot a bow. We just set up the targets and got them all fixed up. It was fun. I mean, it is It's the same thing I think you're talking about. It's very similar. It's focused. Even if it's just for a little while, it's that little moment in time that this is all I'm doing right now.

Right. Have you ever bowhunted?

I used to be a hunter. Yeah. Yeah? Yeah, I did. I hunted for a long time.

My dad-Tree stand?

Yeah. Okay. Or ground blind, either way. Right. Bowhunting was my absolute favorite to do because it took the focus and it was intimate. Yeah. And it took a lot of skill and practice. Certainly, bowhunting. To make sure you're... Yeah.

White tail? White Oh, nice.

But I raised a baby deer, a buck.

Oh, that's a problem.

That's a problem. So my hunting days are behind me. He's on my heart.

We found a buck with a broken leg on our property, and my wife took to feeding it. And all of her enthusiasm for me hunting went out the window.

It changes things.

Yeah, because it's like a dog.

He was just like a dog.

They're sweet, they come right up to you.

Wild-ass white-tail deer became my pet.

And it's different than any other feral animal in that they domesticate like that.

They really do. Like, he was literally... I'd come home and he would run over to me like a dog. So definitely changed my mind.

Well, I think it's because they're dumb, unfortunately. I think nature has them set up to be not very intelligent and just food. Yeah. And he's a beautiful food thing. Yeah. That's really what they are. Yeah.

My dad, I grew up hunting with him, taught me how to shoot a gun, all that stuff at 17. And when I raised that buck, he was like, It's over, isn't it? Yeah, it's over. It's over.

It's over. Yeah. I'll never raise a baby elk. I'll tell you that.

Yeah, don't do it. I don't like elk hunting too much.

But I get it. I mean, we have deer in our neighborhood, and I see these little cute babies that are born every year. And we stop the car, Oh, my God.

Especially in Texas. They're everywhere.

Everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. And there's not any predators out here because you just shoot them. So there's like these deer all over the place. Unless they get hit by a car, I don't know what happens.

They're not affected anymore.

No, no. But they are beautiful. And it's cool to have animals around. Just it's cool to be, at least in some form of nature.

Yeah, I'm such an animal lover. I mean, I don't do well. That's why I brought your dog toys. I'm like, I just I don't know. It's part of who I am, is to have especially dogs. That's my heart. Me, too. I have a foundation called Mutt Nation Foundation. I started with my mom in 2009. And so far, we've raised over $11 million since then. It was like a little mom and pop operation back in the day. But it just has been my heart since I was a little girl. I think growing up in the country where there's just animals everywhere, whether it's deer, or stray dogs, or stray cats, or whatever. I think it just prepped me for when you get a platform and someone's like, What do you want your charity to be? It's like, Oh, I know what it's going to be.

So what does your charity do?

We rescue. Well, we advocate for rescue. Mut Nation Foundation, we don't have shelters. We lift up the arms of shelters is what we say because my mom and dad were private investigators my whole life. And so my mom, just because we started rescuing dogs, just when I was a little girl, you live in the country, people dump them off and whatever, started adopting some from the shelter as a teenager and volunteering. And so she started vetting shelters just because that's her background, checking up on people, make sure they're doing what they're supposed to. And so, like 2009, it was like, Oh, I started to get a name for myself, and you need to pick something that you're passionate about that you want to give back to. So we started it. And basically, we advocate for spay and neuter. We advocate for adopt, don't shop, and we raise money to give to shelters all over the country. Every year, we give a $5,000 grant to a shelter in every state and try to not repeat. So there's just so many that need help, and there's so many amazing animals out there. We just try to remind people there's amazing animals out there that you don't have to go buy one.

If my wife is allergic and one of my daughters are allergic, we still have two dogs. But if that wasn't the case, I'd have 50 dogs.

I can't get. But yours are not non-shedders. What's that? Yours are shedders, though, right?

Yeah, they shed. They do. Yeah. You just keep them clean. She's not nearly as bad as when I first met her. When I first met her, she really would get hives if she pet the dogs. But also, I was not that good at washing my dogs, and they were always in the yard playing around, and they were always dirty.

Yeah.

But if you don't have dogs, dogs are like extra love. You have your love in your life will be whatever the level is at now, it'll be like 35% higher.

I 100% agree. For sure. I'm allergic to everything I love. Horses, cats, dogs. You're allergic to horses? All of it. That's crazy. I live on Allegra. Wow, that's crazy. I'm just popping Allegra to enjoy my life, but I don't care. It's worth it.

One of my daughters is so project that we went to Rome once, and we were on this horse-driven... They have these tourist things you do. You sit in the back of a wagon, the horse drives around the city. And just being downwind of the horse, her eyes were swelling up. We had to get off the horse and walk the rest of the way. Then we had to find a pharmacy. It was terrible. Oh, it was bad. She's got it bad.

Did she do shots or anything?

She did that. She did the whole thing, but they hated it. And when my wife stopped doing shots, then all of her allergies got way better. And she was doing shots because Texas has a lot of allergens. A lot of people that come from places like California, you don't realize it. You come here and then you get whammed with like...

I was sneezing all the way over here because I just landed. Wow. You get them, too? I live in Nashville half the time and Austin half the time. And it's like two of the worst places for allergies. Oh, are they really? Yeah. It doesn't matter.

I didn't know that Austin was that bad. I didn't get them at all until really, probably last year, I started to get them.

How long have you all been here?

Five years? Five years. Almost six. No, five. So last year, I started getting sore throats. I was like, Am I getting sick? What the fuck is going on? Then I went to Vegas for the UFC. No sore throat. You're fine. Came back, sore throat again. I'm like, Oh, damn it. It's an allergy. It's an irritation. Because it didn't make any sense. I was like, I feel good. I feel really healthy. But this thing in my throat is bugging me. I'm like, Maybe I just got to be careful. Maybe I'm fighting off a cold because I didn't want to admit it. I was like, Everybody else is getting allergies. I'm not getting them.

It makes sense if you're not used to the trees and the grass here. I mean, it's a whole new ecosystem that you have to get used to.

But the weird thing, they say it takes three years before it hits you. And I was like, Shut up. That doesn't make any sense. But it's true. I've never heard that. Yeah, it's true. It seems to be true. It seems to get you after three years.

What do you do about it? Nothing.

Just deal with it. I feel my body is going to adapt. I feel like If I just let my body deal with whatever these allergens are and understand what they are, it'll figure it out. I took a lot of vitamins. It'll be fine. And it seems to be better. This year, I got a couple sniffles a few days in a row where I was thinking I had a cold, and then I realized it was high something, mold or fucking cedar or whatever the hell it is.

You just didn't have to pay attention to it before.

Yeah, I guess. But whatever that is, all the positives about living here, greatly outweigh it. Yeah.

I love it, too. This place rules. It does. I'm glad you all are here. You came in 2020 then, right? Yeah.

Yeah.

My little brother lives here, and his husband, Mark, and he went to UT and never came home. Our little town, Lindale, Texas, representing today. Nice. It's about 80 miles east of Dallas. And so I bought a place here in 2017 and spent a lot of time in Austin.

It's great. It's a great town. I mean, we should probably stop talking about how great it is because people want to move here.

Yeah, it's not that great. There's a lot of allergies, guys.

Yeah, guys, stay home. Don't sneeze. I talked to a lot of people in a movie here, and I think I've done talking people. It's like, we're good.

Well, Nashville is our other city that's happening, too. Sure. But the more the merrier, really.

Well, the thing about Austin is it wasn't really much of a comedy scene. There was one comedy club that closed before I moved here. It had already closed before the pandemic, I guess at the beginning of the pandemic, it went under. And so the comedy scene here was empty. And When we moved here and we started doing shows here, it was one of the only places in the country we could do live indoor shows. And we were like, fuck it. And then comedians just started moving here because they were convinced that LA was never going to open. And once I was here and Ron White was here, Tony Hinch Cliff was here, everybody was like, well, let's fuck it. I want to live. I don't want to be trapped in my house and not be able to perform for a year and a half or whatever it's going to be. Data brokers are invading your privacy. They're recording everything you do online. And if you live in the US, they're selling your information to anyone and everyone who's willing to buy it. But thankfully, there's a way to stop all the tracking and spying, and that's with ExpressVPN.

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That's great. My first show back, I think it was after like, 332 days of no shows, no bus rides. It was crazy. What did it feel like? What did it feel like? It was Billy Bob's in Fort Words because like you said, Texas was like, What COVID? We're going to go do stuff. We're going to hope you talk right now. We did a little residency at Billy Bob's. We did five shows. Did you get COVID? Yeah, but I had it before. I had it before we even knew what it was. It was on the road. I was around so many people. I was on tour. Before we knew what it was, I had this thing none of my tricks worked with. All my singer tricks, like stereo it shot, B12, IV, vocal rest, just couldn't shake it. Then a month later, it's like, Oh, that's because it's something real bad. We've never heard I love. I had to cancel shows. It was terrible. But the first show back, I had five in a row, but the first one was just rowdy and so old-school honky-tonk feeling. I was crying. It was a cool moment.

It feels weird, right?

It was good to miss it, though.

Yeah, that's true.

It was really good to miss it. I never had a chance to. I never stopped. Country music, especially. We just don't. We just tour year-round, Weekend Warriors, make a record, tour it for two years, do it again, repeat, rinse, repeat. And I've been doing this since I was 17. So just years and years of not knowing if I could miss it, just grinding. And I did. I mean, I was like, Dang, I I miss my bus. I missed the road, which I wasn't sure would happen.

Right, because it's so grading.

It is. It's hard. And so, yeah, I was happy to be back. But now it's back harder than ever. It's like just, it's a different... It hits different after 40. You don't recover as quickly.

Do you ever carve out vacation times? Say for the month of December, I'm not doing shit.

Yeah, that's the winter. Last year, I went to Arizona. I went to Phoenix area and rode with all those cowgirls shooting guns off horses. And I was just so rejuvenated and refreshed. And I was like, I need to make that a priority. I I think none of us are good at that. If you're really driven and really goal-oriented like you are, I have to make myself. And then I'll go and say, Well, they're working me to death. They is me. I'm the one adding shit to my calendar. That is me. My husband's like, You said you were going to be off this week. Well, I had this one. So I really am making the priority to take some winter months because we start touring in the spring and don't stop till the winter again. So I feel like it's important.

It's intelligent. It's an intelligent thing to do, to give yourself a forced vacation, some a break. So just think of your creativity as a battery. You can't run your phone until it's got zero. You got to charge it. So stick it in the cable, put it into the wall, let it charge for a little while. You got to think about it that way, I guess.

What do you do for your chill time?

I don't do a lot of chilling.

Well, I No, I didn't think so.

I just do other stuff.

Same. I was like, I feel like you're preaching to the choir over here.

Yeah. I mean, I watch TV. I like to watch like, documentaries and stuff, and I watch fights, and I watch YouTube videos, but I can't do it much or I just don't like that feeling. I feel like I'm wasting time, so I have to keep myself on track.

You do other things. Well, that's the thing. It's like, not just, going out there to chill out on the couch. I'm like, I'm in the desert doing something physical. Also, musicians, our life isn't that physical. It's as far as activity. If we're writing songs, we're sitting around writing songs. We're sitting around practicing. We're standing there until the show part. So I have to make sure my hobbies should be active. Yeah. You know?

Sure. And also do something that active stuff stimulates your mind more. And I think active stuff will probably aid in your writing more, right?

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. I think so. It has to. I mean, it just makes sense.

Yeah.

When you sit down, do you sit down and write in front of a computer? Do you wait till an idea comes to you? Do you write on a piece of paper?

How do you- All of it. Usually, I love to co-write. Write by myself. I'm not good at it. I encourage it for any artist I'm mentoring or anything else. But need to do it myself more because co-writing is fun. You're hanging around with... Which I met you, actually, at one of my favorite writers, Benefit, Jack Ingram. Him and John Randall, my other best friend and I, which I think you met him, too. We have a little side project we call the Marfa Tapes, and we would go out to the desert in Marfa, which is... Have you been there yet? No, I haven't. It is like a different world.

That's what Rick Rubin says.

It is a different, literal, different world. It's It's magical. I don't know what's in the air out there.

How far is the drive? Is it like 5 hours from here?

From here, it's about six and a half.

Six and a half?

Is that coffee? Yeah.

You want some?

Yeah. Anyway, we'll sit around and J. R. Is an amazing guitar player. Cheers. Thank you. He'll come up with a rift or somebody has a title. That's why I like co-writing. I don't know. It's more fun to celebrate it with your friends. You know what I mean? Yeah, for sure.

I mean, some of the best ideas that comedians ever come up with, we come up in the green room because we're just riffing. There's always a moment we're hanging around and Tony will say something. We're like, Dude, write that down.

Write that down. Same thing. It's the exact same thing. Yeah.

Well, it's like, creativity is interesting because you want to be inspired, and you're never more inspired than you are around other creative people.

Yeah, especially people that are better than you.

Yeah, for sure. Right?

I'm like, Oh, you're a really great writer and great musician. We should be friends. I need to learn from you, and you make me look cool.

Yeah, and it kicks up your desire to do better a notch.

Yeah, especially, too. I've been working with younger artists, and I love seeing their fire, like they're like race horses at the gate. You know what I mean? And it reminds me of how that felt and reminds me to find my moments where I feel that way, too.

Yeah, that's great. I feel the same way about working with young comedians. It's important. It's good. It's great to see the spark on their eye when they do their first big crowd. Come on, man. This is just a regular club. Go out there. Give me some knuckles. You see them watch them kill in front of thousands of people, and they come back, and they're like, Whoa.

You're like, Uh-oh. Now you got the bug.

Yeah. Well, they had the bug already, but it's like you get to feel it. I get to feel it again for the first time. I've done it so many times. It's almost normal, which it never should be normal. And you get to see somebody else experience the jolt of what it feels like, that spotlight in your face and all those people in the crowd.

It's exciting. It is. And it's good. It's a reminder. I think it's so important. People ask you this, Do you get nervous? I don't get nervous. I get...

Anticipation.

Yeah, that's a great word. I'm going to start saying that because I was like, I don't really have an answer because I care and I want to do well. I get this... It's anticipation. It's not nerves per I think once you stop feeling something, really, you're doing the wrong thing, no matter what it is.

I'm sure you feel that whenever you get on one of those horses with a gun in your hand.

Yeah. Here we go. I haven't stopped feeling anything yet. Here we go. This is crazy. I'm still feeling all those feels for a while.

I'm sure. I don't know if that will ever go away, right? Because you're not in control of the horse.

No, it's not up to you. I think that's why I like it. It's because I I've grown to trust me in my gig. I trust me. I trust my band, but mostly it's up to me. I'm the one sitting there in front of a microphone, and I know my capabilities, and I know what I can deliver on a a hobby like golf, I'm like, I don't know what the hell is about to happen when I swing this club. This is not up to me. This little son of a bitch isn't moving, and I can't hit it. It's just like, I don't know. And the same thing with the It's like up to my horse. It's not up to me. I can aim and I can have the skill and be learning how to ride, but it's about him.

Yeah, for sure.

His name is cool, my shooting name.

That's his name? Yeah. With a K or a C? It's a C.

He's cool.

That's a great Morris Day in the Time song. Yeah. You never heard that song? No. Cool?

It's a great song. I need to hear it. We have a theme song, and I didn't know it.

Yeah, we'll give her some of that. We'll have to cut this out. Otherwise, we'll get removed from YouTube. But play Morris Day in the Time. Cool. This This is during the Prince days. Morris Day in the Time, I think, is one of the most underappreciated bands from that era, from the early '90s, because they got eclipsed by Prince. Because they were hanging around with Prince, and they were part of the whole Prince.

I don't know anything about him.

You don't know Morris Day in the Times? No, I don't. Oh, my God. Play Cool by Morris Day in the Times.

I'm making sure it's the right one.

I got a version that says it's just Morris Day, and then another version popped up that said it was just the time. So let me go to-Either way, it's always going to be Morris Day singing. I don't think the time ever played without Morris. Morris is cool as fuck, though. Here it is. All right, we'll edit this out. For people at home, sorry, go I'm not mad like me. That's awesome.

Is it okay?

Look at the clothes. Oh, it's so corny. It's so great.

It's so like- What year is that?

God, I don't know. It's got to be early '90s, right? '91?

'81.

'81. Dang. Wow.

I wasn't even born on the Earth.

That's crazy. 1981. Wow. I was a freshman in high school.

I'm an '83 baby.

I was in my junior year or sophomore year. Yeah, I was a freshman in high school back then. That's crazy.

Wow.

There was a weird time back then because Prince was so big that there was a bunch of fake princes. People started imitating Prince. It's almost like a lot of- That's always what happens. Yeah, men become an androgynes.

There's one, and then they're like, Oh, let's all be like that one. So there's 20 more that aren't as good.

I know. Yeah. There's a bunch of fake Michael Jacksons, I'm sure. There was a bunch of people that just tried to do something. What's that guy doing? And with Prince, it was like, What's happening here?

Very uniquely authentically himself. So even that was like, trying to be too close, probably.

A little bit.

You know what I mean?

Yeah. Not as good. That's the problem. You're not as good as Prince. You're awesome. You're great. But Prince is like a once in a generation superstar, weirdo talent from Mars.

Exactly. There are those. There's some that just aren't from here.

Yeah. That guy was just different than everybody. I remember I was delivering newspapers when I first heard a Prince song, and I was like, This is crazy. Who is this guy? It was I Want to Be Your Lover. Do you remember that? That fucking song. And it was like, this is a guy singing like a girl on stage. She's three feet tall, and all the women want to fuck him. I'm like, This is nuts. I've never seen anything like this in my life.

What's happening?

What did this guy do? This guy's a sorcerer. He was so talented that he could wear stilettos on stage and no one cared. No one cared. It wasn't like, Boo, what are you dressing like a girl? No one gave a fuck. He was so good and so… There's something about the magnetic personality that he had. But the charisma that he had was so undeniable that everybody was like, Holy shit. What is this?

That's not taught. That's innate. You're born with that.

You can't teach prints. How do you teach that?

No, you don't. You grew up in Jersey, right?

I was born in Jersey. You were born in Jersey. But I only lived there till six.

Where did you grow up?

I grew up everywhere. I lived in San Francisco from 7: 00 to 11: 00. I lived in Gainesville, Florida from 11: 00 to 13: 00.

That's a moving.

Yeah, a lot of moving. Then I lived in Boston from 13: 00 to 24: 00. Then I lived in New York.

New York, in the city?

For a few years. No, I couldn't afford parking, so I had to live outside the city because I'm a comedian. I had to drive everywhere. I had a lot of road gigs. That's where I made my money. So to drive to Connecticut, Rhode Island. In the city, it was like a parking spot. It was hundreds of dollars a month back then. So I lived in New Rochelle.

Okay, cool. My husband was NYPD. He retired after eight years because I drove him down to Tennessee. And now Texas. Nice. And now he says you all.

Does he? Does he say, Y'all? A little bit. Unironically, how long has he been there?

We've been married seven years. Okay. After five, you're not faking anymore.

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But I got to live up there when we first got married. We had an apartment in Soho, and I'm from BFE, Lindale, Texas. Dallas is our biggest city, and it's 80 miles. I had so much fun. He was still a cop, so I just wander around all day. I had gigs on the weekends, but Monday through Wednesday, I'm just like Desperate Housewives of Soho. Running around and going to rock clubs by myself and having lunch by myself and having wine, meet people. It's a city that nobody cares who you are at all.

They're just like- It's an amazing city.

It's amazing. If you like cities. Yeah. I like visiting cities. Six months was... I got my fill. I loved it. We're there a ton because his family is still there. But I enjoyed really immersing because I'd never done that. And I'm not really a city girl, but I was like, I'm just going to use every bit of this that I can. Wrote some great songs, wrote one called Firescape. I didn't even know what that was before. You know what I mean? What's a fire escape? You used to walk out the door. So it was a cool time.

Well, that would be a great place to rewire your brain creatively to write stuff because you're forced in a totally different environment. Yeah. In the weirdest environment on Earth, in my opinion, I think the weirdest environment on Earth for human beings is when they're stacked on top of each other in cities. Because I don't think that's normal at all. No, it's not. I think your whole body just goes, what? You're always at three or four all day long. Always. You're never at zero.

Yes. My husband, just now, we literally talked about yesterday. I was like, you are finally at a regulated nervous system level. Because I think he was just used to You have to vibrate at a different energy, especially if you're a police officer. That's a whole different. You know what I mean? And so finally, we have a farm in Tennessee, and we were there for a couple of days this week and just chilling, making cookies and being normal. And it's like, he's finally enjoying that because even when I had my little time in New York City, I was like, this is a lot of... I couldn't do this 24/7 for long periods of time because I just can't come down and ground myself. I need to touch grass.

Yeah, I do, too. Being a cop in New York City has got to be one of the most stressful jobs in the history of the world.

Yeah, I think so.

I mean, that's right up there, like below being a soldier in war, like being a cop. I mean, I have friends that are cops or that were cops that will tell you that the people that are working in the field, like as police officers, and they're going and seeing things on a daily basis, they're seeing way more carnage way more fucked up things than these guys who had served. They did both. They were like, I saw way more as a cop than I ever did as an officer.

It makes sense. It's a lot. I mean, his whole family, police officers, my whole family is firemen and police officers, too. So I think that was our bond anyways. We grew up exactly the same just in different parts of the country.

Well, I was around a lot of cops when I was a kid because of martial arts. We were always training with cops. And I'd listen to stories that they would tell me about things that they got into. And they were getting into things like that on a daily basis. There was always shootouts, there was always car wrecks, there was always murders and domestic violence cases. And it's like, man, how many of those guys are just walking around with severe PTSD and no one cares, no one respects.

No one's talking about it. I think that they don't even acknowledge it themselves. I know my dad worked vice in Dallas for his whole career, and back in the day, and my It's been like, they just don't... And then they just come home and like, you know.

I'd kill my hearing aids, too.

He's like the dog ate it. I guarantee you that he just threw it away.

He fed it to put peanut butter on that fucking thing.

Good job, reclamer. We know what you did now. He put peanut butter on it. That's just wrong. It's just wrong in so many ways.

Yeah, man. He probably needed peace and quiet. Yeah.

He needs mom to hush.

Yeah. Everybody shut the fucking world off. You know, One of the greatest pool players, if not the greatest pool player of all time, is deaf. There's a guy named Shane Van Boning. Really? And he shuts his hearing aid off when he plays.

So it's just silent?

Yeah, just fuck off world. People could be screaming in the crowd. He didn't hear shit.

What is it about pool? You said you play pool. You like it?

I've been playing pool for 35 years. Yeah, I've been playing forever.

But what is it about that particular?

Because the balls don't give a fuck who you are. They don't care what you think you are. They don't care who you know, how much money you have, what you've accomplished already, how many shots you've already made. The balls don't care. The pockets are four and a quarter inches wide, and if you don't hit it perfect, it doesn't go in, and it requires all of your concentration. And if you really know how to play pool, then you're dealing with English. So you're dealing with spin on the cue ball left and right, and you're dealing with draw and follow. It's a dance of the mind and these orbs, you're hitting a ball into another ball and trying to get that thing to go straight. And it just requires this complete harmony of hand-eye coordination and your spirit. You have to stay calm while you're doing it.

That's why. I like that. That's a very good explanation of that. I'm the worst pool player. I mean, you would think, playing as many hockey talks as I have played, that I could play pool.

Most people that think they can play pool can't play pool. Most people don't know really how to play pool.

Back in my day, it was just a place to flirt.

It's that. The thing about pool is once you get down the road and you start understanding, you really start getting the game and understanding it and then playing in tournaments and then gambling. Then you're dealing with real pool players. And these real pool players play pool eight hours a day. Wow. Every day. You have to. Because you know how the thing of being comfortable on stage or being comfortable riding a horse, being comfortable shooting a bow or playing golf, multiply that times 100 and you have pool. Because pool is the only game where you take a stick and you hit a ball into another ball. Every other game, you hit a ball. You just hit a ball with a stick. But in pool, you're hitting a ball into a ball and controlling the movement of both balls. Like the one that's hitting the ball, you're controlling how it spins off to get perfect position on the next shot. And then the other one, you want to make sure it gets the exact right angle to go into the pocket while you're calculating all this spin and the geometry of the table and avoiding collisions. It's maddening.

I just got anxiety. It's maddening. I just got stressed out.

It'll drive you crazy. It's a game that will drive you crazy. But when you catch it, there's a thing called being in stroke and being in dead stroke, it's a air thing. It happens once a month or something like that, where you just can't miss, where you know where everything is. And it's this calm that comes over. The world dissolves, and all you feel is the table, and you're completely in sync with the movement of the balls. You know how many revolutions each ball is going to make you feel the difference between two extra revolutions You know how hard to hit it exactly. And that's what everybody's chasing. They're chasing this feeling of being in a dead stroke.

Why does it happen once a month?

Because it's so hard to get there. I'd probably get there all the time if I played like a pro, like eight hours a day. You'd probably get there once a week, but nobody stays there.

But that's probably the draw that keeps you coming back.

Dudes do drugs just so they can get there. They get hooked on pills because they find that maybe it's amphetamines, maybe it's opiates, whatever it is. Some guys will do drugs and find that spot and then go back to drugs just to get to that spot.

From pool?

From pool. Yeah. Dang. Oh, it's a nutty game.

I mean, I've never ever dug into it like that.

Oh, at the highest levels, guys are gambling from hundreds of thousands of dollars in these fucking weird places in Kentucky and weird pool, all they're streaming online on YouTube. They're streaming on different websites. Dang. Oh, it's at the highest level, it is a crazy game. It's a crazy game.

Well, I never knew that, but I learned a lot about that.

I know a dude who's one of the best in the world, and he can't travel because he needs pills. So he can't go overseas. He can't go anywhere. He can't travel without his pills. If he does, he won't play white. Really? Oh, it's nuts. Yeah.

It's a head game.

Oh, it's the head. That's it. My friend Jeremy Jones, who won the US Open, one of the greatest players of all time. He's like, it is the... And he plays everything. He played baseball at a high level. He plays golf. He's like, it is the most mental game. And it's why nobody's good at it. That's why it never got to a place where it was really appreciated professionally. Because you have to know how to play it to understand what you're seeing. To really see people play well, you have to know what's happening.

I'm not good at any... I've not played sports, so I'm not good at them. No sports at all? I didn't really... I mean, I grew up playing softball here and there.

So it was Is it golf the first thing you really- Golf is my first, and my amount of shooting, which is technically labeled a sport. That's a sport for sure.

So it's like it's new to me. Sports are new because I just, I don't know. I started this at 17 and just was laser-focused. Like, horse with blinders, doing country music.

What is it like going from just being a regular high school kid and all of a sudden 17, just being thrust into a spot light?

Well, I wasn't in the spotlight at first. I was playing shitholes with no lights.

But even shitholes, there's some light.

You're on stage. The pool light. The pool damn light. I don't know. I don't know. I feel Like that, I didn't have a choice. It picked me. It's the only thing I've ever been good at. Everything is hard. Everything else is hard to me. But music was the only thing that I was like, I guess this is what I'm supposed to do because I'm actually good at it. It comes naturally.

Thank God, you followed it, though. So many people have a thing like that, and they say, Oh, that's just unrealistic. I can't do that.

I didn't have a backup plan. That helped. I barely graduated high school. I was like, I don't want to waste my dad's money. That does help. Going to knowledge, I was like, I have no backup plan, so it really does help. The hunger that it creates is a fire that you can't explain.

It's not good advice. I would never give the advice of don't have a backup plan because some are not going to make it, and then they'll blame you. You told me I shouldn't have a backup plan. But I really think that for someone who's got some talent and a real desire to do that, and you can stay the course, you could deal with the hard times. You can't have a backup plan. You cannot, because that backup plan will rob your time. That's the thing you have to think of. It robs your focus. It steals from your energy. So it'll stop you from reaching your full potential. Fuck your backup plans.

Yeah. I mean, it didn't come from me.

It came from me. Fuck your backup plan.

I don't want to get blamed, but I just think that's the reason that it happened is a lot of hard work, obviously, and determination, but just nothing else. I have nothing else. I was terrible at school, terrible at sports, had to get tutoring, had to stay late for the cheerleading dance. Everything was just hard for me.

Right, but that's just because you're a great singer. That's where your mind works. It's just such a wonderful thing that you found the thing that you're really good at because some people don't. They just don't know why they suck at school. They don't know why they can't pay attention. They don't know why they can't be at work on time. They don't know why. They're like, What's wrong with me? And if maybe that person just found that thing and they're like, Oh, my God, I'm supposed to be riding horses and shooting balloons.

Exactly. Here I am. I found Yeah, I think it's... I feel like we're the lucky ones when we get to we know this is what I'm supposed to do. This is what I'm going to chase no matter what it costs. I see so many people that are so immensely talented that just didn't happen for. And you don't know why. Like the why you said, you don't know if it was one little factor of a period in their life or just not seeing at the right time We're chasing the right thing at the right time. I don't know. I feel very thankful for that. But I'm also trying to learn new things at 40 because I spent my whole adult life doing that. You know what I mean? So now I'm like, What can we do next? Let's find another hobby.

But that's a great approach, though. That's great. I mean, it's recognizing you want to have some more stuff in your life. It's interesting.

I think that does come... I don't know. Does that come with- Wisdom, with age? Age, wisdom, and also feeling accomplished. I feel like I set my goals, hit them, and that feels like, Oh, okay, I can take a breath.

Yeah, that's got to be a part of it, right? That's got to be a part of it. It's got to be a part that you can relax a little. Not that You will when it comes to writing and singing and stuff. But at least you don't have to worry, am I going to make it? Like, hey, you made it.

Okay, let's just have some fun.

And what's the point? The whole idea making it is like, your life will be better. Well, your life will be better if you have more fun. Find some stuff you like to do.

Exactly. You seem like somebody that chases a lot of new things and conquers them, which I think is really inspiring.

Well, I chase things that you never conquer. That's the key.

And no one told me that until I started playing golf, and now it's too late. You can't ever win.

For me, it started with martial arts. You never conquer that. There's always going to be somebody better than you, especially if you're not a professional.

But you get really, really good at things that you're pursuing. Well, it's probably mental illness.

You spend time on them. I think something wrong with me. For sure, if I was born at a different time, I was born in the '60s. They didn't really diagnose kids with ADHD when I was a kid.

Oh, we both have it. And dope them up.

A hundred %.

We 100 % have it.

A hundred %. I got it. Whatever that fucking is, it's a superpower. It's a superpower if you use it right.

Yeah, I think so, too.

Yeah. The idea that you have to medicate a kid because he can't sit in school. Find out if that kid's good at other stuff. Find out if there's a thing that... A hundred %. Yeah. Okay, maybe they can't sit there where someone's teaching them math. Maybe they get bored real quick. Maybe they start talking to their friends. Whatever it is, they probably have a thing they're really good at. If they could find that thing, I bet they're focused like a motherfucker when they're playing video games, right? Yeah. So what's that all about? Find the thing that that kid can lock into. A hundred %. The thing is, you make people do things that are completely unnatural. You make people sit down when they're six in a chair while some lady who's making $35,000 a year doesn't like kids is teaching them some shit that she doesn't care about. So there's no energy in the room. Everything. And then when they're out in the yard with their friends, they're having fun and they're laughing. They're talking to each other. This is bullshit. This class sucks. And they're talking to each other, and then they get in trouble for talking.

Like, your child's a problem. Is the child really the problem? Seems like the child has a lot of energy. That's not a problem. You You're not providing an inspiring environment for a growing mind. Just turning you into a dull drone, some worker that just is capable of shutting themselves off all day and then showing up and then just doing some stuff that they don't want to do because they were taught how to do it when they were kids.

I feel like there's a lot more opportunities now than there was. Even when I was in school, it was just like Lindell ISD. Everybody learns the same Everybody goes to the same class. You know what I mean? And my mom says, I learned differently. She tries to say it.

You learned differently?

Differently. But looking back, it's the same. You just described my entire existence as a student.

Well, it's Not much as yours. It's mine, and I think it's most people's. The only class that I really enjoyed was, well, science. I always enjoyed science, and I enjoyed art. I always enjoyed that. But even I had a shitty art teacher in high school. It was like a failed artist who was really negative, and he ruined the art for me. Suck out the vibe. Yeah. Not really, but ruined the idea of me doing it as a profession. I was like, God, I have to be around people like this. This guy's gross. He was just so negative. Right. Bitter. Just sad. Just a sad old dude. I always remember, he ate a basketball. His whole body was skinny, but his belly was... Now I know. The guy probably drank himself to sleep every night.

Well, He was- You was sad. He was an artist trapped in his own lap, too.

Also, he wasn't that good of an artist. That's part of the problem. Part of the problem was- He needed a backup plan. Well, I just don't think he had a lot of fire in him when it came to anything. And I think the art that he created was a representation of who he is as a human. And he saw these young kids that were talented. I was pretty talented. I was the third best kid. There was a kid named Kevin that was a little better than me. And then a kid named John, who was the best guy in our class. And John told me a year or two ago, we were emailing each other back and forth. And John told me that that guy gave him an F. And I was like, okay, so it wasn't just me. That guy's a piece of shit because John was the best artist I'd ever seen when I was a teenager. And we were all like, fuck, this guy's the art world? We're out. So none of us became artists. That's sad. Oh, that was what this guy wanted. What this guy wanted was to kill dreams.

I feel like So especially in that... How old were you?

When I quit the classes, I stopped my senior year in high... But by then, I was also traveling and fighting. By then, that was when I heavily got into martial arts. So by the time I was 17, my whole senior year, I was traveling around the country.

That's crazy. I started making money, playing music at 17.

Your senior year of high school? Yeah. Wow. So that must have alienated you from a lot of your friends.

Yeah. And I mean, I was also very big into church choir and stuff. And so I'm at the honky-tonk till 4: 00 in the morning because I was the house band. And then I'm dragging a leg into church, smelling terrible. No wonder you all kick me out of youth group, you assholes.

I probably deserved it. That's hilarious. What did you do last night?

My mom had to go with me for the first three months of my house gig because I couldn't get in until I was 18 and I was playing in the house band. She'd be like, Oh, good. You can drive and I can drink beer and listen to you all play. Oh, that's hilarious. That's funny. But it's funny what you're talking about teachers. I feel like there's some that just really... There's that turning point where you meet that one teacher or someone in your childhood or high school years that turns things around for you. When you're talking about your art teacher, this teacher's name is Caldwell, and she taught speech. And I was a terrified, literal the shyest kid ever. My parents are both very vibrant and huge personalities, and I couldn't get a word in edgewise, so I just didn't talk until I was 16 because they just wouldn't shut up. They're just constantly... Dad's telling a cop story about his voice days, and my mom's a PI, so She's telling all her cool stories. And so I just was really shy. And my little brother was the same. He's five years younger, and we just weren't very vocal.

And I somehow got... I didn't pay attention and didn't put down my classes. My junior year of high school. And I got shoved in a class where there was one spot, and it was speech honors, and it was a debate class. And that is not my vibe. I was panicking. My mom came up to the school. I was sobbing. I was like, I can't do this. I don't even speak hardly. But I was singing here and there. I was singing in church. I could do it if I was singing, but still shyly singing. You know what I mean? In the background. And my mom was like, We got to figure this out. The school was like, Well, there's not really any room for her in any other classes and whatever. And it was an honors class. This girl was barely passing every class except choir.

They just allowed you to enter into that class?

They just somehow. And so then I think, looking back, Ms. Caldwell and the principal, and met with my mom, and she looked at Ms. Caldwell, and she was like, Can she do this? And she was like, She needs to do this. And I had to debate against these seniors and just real smart kids, right? But it really brought me out of my shell. And so I'm thankful she wasn't like your art teacher. I'm thankful that Ms. Caldwell was like, No, I see potential in this girl. And if she's going to... Because I sang at the talent show or whatever. She's like, if she's going to be a her, she's going to have to learn me in front of people and to show her personality and come out of her shell. And it really changed my world because then I started playing in bars and I started to come into my personality a little bit because you can't do this if you If you aren't confident and have confidence in who you are.

And the ability to be who you are in between songs. That.

That is a really important part. Yeah.

And that's where people get to see you. Yeah.

So I'm thankful for her. Thanks, Ms. Caldwell. Love you. Damn, Ms..

Caldwell killed it. She killed it. Yeah, that's beautiful to have a teacher like that. And anyone can speak. The anxiety about, Oh, I could never public speak. Yes, you It's not impossible. Can you talk to me? Okay. Then you could talk to a bunch of people. You can do it. You might have to do it a bunch of times before you figure it out. But it's not like breathing underwater. You could totally do it.

It's so scary to me. I mean, honestly, you're so good at it. I'll Also comedians, that to me is the scariest of all the showbiz that you could pick is that.

Yeah, it's one of them. That's what I like about it, though. I like scary stuff because you'll have less people doing it.

So you'll be like, I'm big fish.

That's why I got into fighting. That's why I got into cop. Let's say if you want to be a lawyer, you know what people are trying to be a lawyer? Oh, my God. You got to go to law school. You got to get a degree. You got to pass the bar. You got to get hired by some a law firm, and you got to try cases. And what are you doing? A lot of people are trying to be lawyers because there's a clear pathway. But if the pathway is foggy, how do you be a professional fighter? Like, Oh, I'll go that pathway. No one's doing that. The people that are doing that are all crazy. Those are my people. Or if the pathway is how to be a comedian. Like, Oh, yeah. All these people are all misfits. This is perfect. These are my people. This is perfect. I'll go do that. I'm in short of being around like-minded, interesting people.

Yeah, that's a great way to look at it. But I always think about how the first time you step on the stage and you're showing all your cards.

Do you remember your first time?

Well, but for a comedian, to me, it's like songs. The songs are different. The first game you play, whatever, everybody has their first time that they're learning their ropes and how to get their feet under them. But that's just so raw. Here's my jokes. Here's my whole heart. I hope you think this is funny. Every time I see it, I'm like, That is the hardest thing in show business.

The first time I ever did it, I was still fighting, and I'd done nothing but martial arts competition, literally eight hours a day for my whole life for six years. And then I was more scared going on stage at an open mic night than I had ever been fighting, ever.

That makes sense to me.

But I was confused. I was like, why am I scared? This doesn't even make sense. It was so baffling to me. I was like, why am I so nervous?

That makes sense to me. It's something you... Well, you knew you were good at it, but you had to do it in front of people.

I didn't didn't even think I was good at it. My friends told me I was good at it, and they only told me I was good. It was like, we would go to tournaments and everybody would be terrified. We'd all be really nervous, and I would be the humor. It was gallows humor. So I would be the guy cracking jokes. I'd be the guy doing impressions of each other, of different friends, like what they'd be like having sex or whatever it was, and making everybody laugh, saying totally inappropriate stuff. And my friend Steve, who I'm still friends with these days, he was a grown man, and I was like, 15 at the time. To this day, he's still one of my best friends. But he told me, he's like, You should be a comedian. You're funny. And I was like, You think I'm funny because you like me? I go, But other people are going to think I'm an asshole. My sense of humor is fucked up. And he's like, You should just go to Open Mic Night. And I did. And I went to an open mic night and I was like, oh, everybody sucks.

Oh, this is fine. I was like, you go to see a few professionals and a few people are just struggling. I thought everybody would be like Jerry Seinfeld or Richard Pryer. I'm going to get killed up there. This is going to be terrible. And then I realized, oh, this is just like martial arts or anything else. You start off terrible and then you try and then you get better and then you figure it out. But I just wasn't I was just stunned by how scared I was more than anything.

Yeah.

Do you remember the first time you ever got on stage at a Honky Talk?

Yeah, it was a- How old were you? Sixteen. It was a true value country showdown, the Rio Paul Mile in Longview, Texas. Wow. Yeah, and I was scared to death because I was like, The Shot Kid, too. My dad's a songwriter, too. You're going to love this.

He's a cop and a songwriter?

My dad is a songwriter. He plays guitar. He had a band. His cop band on their side gig was all narcs, and they were called Contraband. They were a country band called Contraband. Can you even- That's a great name.

It's the best. That's a great one. That's funny.

Yeah, but he wrote songs, so I was like, I'm going to enter this contest. My mom was shocked. I was working in the yard. She's like, Go pick the weeds. I'm like, Mom, there's an ad on the radio for a contest called the True Value Country Showdown, and I want to enter it. She was like, What? You don't even talk. You're too shy. Are you kidding me? And I was like, No, I want to do it. And she was like, What are you going to sing? You had to sing an original song, and I sang one of my dad's.

Oh, wow. What was the song?

It was called... Gosh, now I can't think of it. Too many song titles in my head. Way too many. It's like Dunbar's number. Here I go again. That's what the title was. Okay. Because I grew up on... Forever, I thought my dad wrote Mama Dried because I grew up with him just playing John Pride, and Hager, and David Allan Coe, and Got Clark. So I started to realize, Oh, some of these are my dad's originals, and some of those are more Hager. They're not just dads. But I got up there and I didn't win, but it was my first Just, okay, like you were just saying, it was my first like, okay, maybe I can do this. I'm green, and I'm shy, and I'm new, and I'm young, but I'm not terrible. I'm equal with these guys. You know what I mean? We're all babies. It was exciting. Yeah, it was. It was exciting. And it was... I don't know. I think that's the first time I was like, okay, I found something that doesn't feel foreign to me, that's not so hard to learn. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Do you believe in fate?

Yeah, I do.

You probably should. Yeah. Because it worked out. Yeah, exactly. That's my bias about fate. If anybody should believe in fate, it's people like you or I. But I'm not sure. My bias is that I believe in it because it worked out. Yeah. But I mean, if your life is shit and you're like, Is this fate? What did I do in a past life? What an asshole was I? That everything just I heard it was so terrible.

Well, I don't know. I feel like I also met my husband in a crazy way, and so I can't help but believe in fate.

There's something to it.

Yeah, I believe in it.

Yeah, there's something to it. As much my mind, my rational mind, wants to ignore the possibility, like the randomness of the universe, the size and scope of it all. Do you really think it matters what you do? But it does to you, right? It has a giant impact on your life and everything matters. Just because there's black holes doesn't mean your homework doesn't matter. You know, everything matters. Your whole world, everything matters. You can't think that things don't matter, like that the universe wouldn't have a plan for your life. It seems to have a plan for everything. I mean, all of it seems to be happening for some a very bizarre reason, all of it together. So I'm sure that there's something to fate. But it's just my rational mind wants to go, that's just your ego. It's silly. You could have been bored in Somalia. Life could have sucked for you. It's hard to... Because fate's a weird one. You can't measure it. You can't put it on a scale. But it seems to be real.

Yeah, it was real for us. So then it's real. I guess. Also, I'm like, your ceiling is giving me... I love it. The little shooting stars. And you were like, fate is real. And it was like, boom. And I was like, yeah, it is.

If I don't tell people, I didn't tell you. But sometimes people... I love it. They're like, Am I having a flashback? What's going on?

It's awesome. That's what I love about West Texas. Something about it's just so vast in the middle of nowhere. The stars are... They feel like, we call it the Thunderdome, when we lay in the yard and it just feels like you could reach up and grab them because it's so dark out there. It's magical.

Well, they're on top of you and you don't have any light pollution. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing that ruins the world.

Yeah.

That's the problem with New York City. That's why everybody's so stuck in their own world, just because they don't realize they're in space. Exactly. You know? You don't get that break. Yeah. No breaks. There's a break that you get from space that I don't think you get from anything else, where you just look up and go, oh, yeah. Okay. I'm taking all this shit way too seriously. Yeah. Because this is nuts. Just above us.

It totally is. And also, when you said that, it made me think of what we were talking about earlier about wisdom and, I don't know, just reaching some goals and taking a breath and calming down and going, okay, everything's okay. I just feel I saw she started and lost my train of thought. I have ADHD. I'm like, I lost my whole train.

Maybe I have to shut the off. Will, we were talking about space and inspiration. What happened? Where did it go? I don't know. It was quiet.

And fate. What are you zinning over there? What are those?

Oh, these are Lucies. They're breakers. Do you ever take these?

I don't know. They are bad. I like zins.

You like it? Here, try these. These are strong, though.

Oh, like what? Sixes?

Nine. Oh, I'll pass out. Yeah, don't do it.

I'm not doing it. This is not for you.

I'm not doing it. This is strong. This one's not... Yeah. These are nines. I got some fours over here. Oh, you got some fours? Oh, Chuck me a four, son.

What's the Lucy's? Why are they different?

They have a little thing inside of them. They're called breakers. So it's like coffee flavor you put in your mouth. Just like it in? Yeah. And you crack that little sucker open. It gives you a little blast of flavor.

That one's like a little piece of cupcake.

A little piece of candy in there for you. Those are fours, right? So that's not bad. That's some nice.

Fours Nice. I get up and run out here. I already couldn't concentrate because of the shooting.

I saw a dude online. He got a 50 milligram one from overseas. What? Yeah. And he tried it and he was violently ill, lying on the ground I'm like, I made a terrible mistake.

Why would you do that?

Well, I think he did it for props, so he could get some online cred just for the views. Did it for the grand. Did it work? I mean, I guess people- You saw it? I watched it. I wanted to see. I'm like, You're going to take a Oh, you're fucked, dude. And he said, Oh, my God. It's like drinking battery acid. And then he was lying on the ground at the end of it. I was like, I really fucked up. I made a giant mistake. Because it's so much nicotine. Fifteen milligrams is crazy.

But you're so into health and take such good care of yourself. And what is the bit? I just tell people, Oh, they're good for you. Have a little. What do you think? Tell me your opinion of these. This whole craze.

Nicotine is not bad for you. The delivery method is what's bad for you. And the delivery method with cigarettes, in particular with cigarettes that have a bunch of chemicals added to them, that's even worse. The regular cigarettes, like natural cigarettes, I bet, are probably not as bad for you. Dr. Suzanne Humphreys, she's a physician who was on here, was explaining to us why regular cigarettes are not as bad, but it's still not good for you. You're smoking in your lungs. But nicotine itself is not bad. Nicotine itself is neuroprotectant. Nicotine itself actually is a neutropic, which means it's cognitively enhancing. So the neutropics are vitamins that help brain function. And there's a bunch of them. We have some here. We have some stuff called AlphaBrain that's great. I've seen that. There's a bunch of companies that make different versions of a neutropic. But there are nutrients that enhance memory and enhance your verbal memory, so your ability to recall words. They can enhance peak alpha flow. State. They've done like real... They've done two double-blind placebo-controlled studies at the Boston Center for Memory with AlphaBrain. It shows more effectiveness than any of the drugs that they had studied over the past nine months before they did this.

This is pretty impressive. So nicotine does that, too. Nicotine enhances your memory, enhances brain function, it stimulates you. So there's a lot of benefits to nicotine. But the problem is, how do you take it? How are you taking your nicotine? Probably one of the best ways is maybe gum. These things- People are wearing patches now and stuff. Fucking crazy people. That's Ron White. He wears a goddamn patch. What are you doing, Ron? I got a patch on it. I'm smoking. He's got a cigar. He's got a zin. Fucking animal. He's such an animal. But I think there's real benefit. I know a guy who puts nicotine patch on for productivity when he writes.

That makes sense to me. I feel like... Because all the songwriters are... Right now, everybody in Nashville is sending. And I'm like, I'll try one. And it really does give you a little...

Stimulate.

Yeah. And also have a lot of words in my head. I need to remember words, and I also need to write new words. Anything to help with that.

If you want to help with memory, Alpha Brain is a really good one.

I want to try that. That's a good one. I just think at some point, too, when you're tired, it feels like you can't... I mean, you just saw me lose my train of thought. I don't want to be on a bunch of Adderall and stuff. I want to find a different method to have my brain functioning the best it can.

These are addictive, though. And I got to say, different people have different levels of how addicted they get with these. Some people can't not have them. I went on vacation. I said, I'm going to go on vacation and not bring any and see what happens, see if I'm not going to freak out. Just to see. And nothing. Zero. Nothing. I was like, I missed them maybe for a day or two. Wanted one, didn't have any. And then after three days, I was like, Oh, this is fine. It's not like a physical, Oh, I got them, Jones. It's not like smoking. I'm a shaken. Yeah. But I know people that have tried to get off of them that really struggle.

I mean, it is addictive. I mean, it's nicotine.

I think the vapes are the hardest to get off of.

The vapes? I don't want heat on my either. Right.

Well, vapes aren't really hot, but it is. If you buy them ones that are in the gas station, who knows where those are being made.

But the ones that heat up?

Oh, yeah. The crazy ones. I like that. Adam Curry. Do you know Adam Curry? He's the first podcaster. He used to be MTV DJ.

Yes. A guy with beautiful hair. Yes.

Good friend of mine. He carries around one of those robot lunchbox vapes, those big old crazy ones where you're blowing.

And it makes a noise.

It's like a power bar on the side of it. It's so ridiculous. And he blows this giant... But it's all like he fills it with natural oil, so it's air quotes healthy. Air quotes?

Yeah. That's what people say. They smoke American spirits. Yeah, it's healthy.

Come on, there's an Indian on there.

Yeah, exactly.

How come they get away with that? Are American spirits owned by Native Americans? No. So how the fuck do they have a Native American on there? Not catching any slack. They do, right? Don't they have a...

It's a badass package.

I've gotten in trouble in the past for stuff. Did they? I'm not getting into it. I'm getting into tobacco company problems.

He's like, and pivot.

Did you ever see Is it a movie, The Insider, with Russell Crowe? I don't think so. It's about a guy who works for a tobacco company that is explaining... He was a chemist, and he was explaining how they added all these different things to make it more addictive, and they're trying to kill him in the film because they don't want that information getting out. He's The Insider. It's a crazy movie, and based on a true story. Wow. Yeah. They put a bunch of shit in cigarettes to try to get you hooked.

Well, then they do it. It works. It does. That's the hardest one, I feel like it's the most you hear people talking about trying to quit that and drinking to me. You know what I mean? Just on the daily. I'm in a band, so everybody's like, Oh, I quit. Now they're all like, You got a zen? You got a zen? Because it's just highly addictive, I guess.

It is, but people want something. They just want something to take them out of whatever state they're in. Give me something. Give me a drink. Give me this. Give me a coffee. Everybody I know that's in alcoholics anonymous, they all smoke or drink tons of coffee. It's either or both.

Yes.

Because they just want to do something. Something is not going to make me suck dick for bus fare, but I'm at least get a little bit of something different than regular life. I don't want to be homeless. I don't want to be cracked out, but give me something. Just give me a A little relief. So I'm going to take me away from wherever I am right now. Yeah.

Not that far away, just a little bit away.

It's a little next door. Let me go next door and hide.

I'm going to start saying that way. I'm like, Can I have a Zin? I need to go next door.

Yeah, I'm going to go next door. Just A little bit. I don't want to go too far away. I could hear everybody.

Am I supposed to break this little candy thing? I do.

Yeah, I break it right away. It just cracked down on that little sucker.

What's in there?

Probably candy. Nice, right?

That's like a little burst of happiness.

A little burst of flavor. I went next door. I like those. That's funny. My buddy Duncan found out that his blood sugar goes up when he vapes because he was buying those gas station vapes. And he got type 2 diabetes because he was eating too much sugar. He's okay. Don't worry. But he realized because he monitors his blood glucose that when he was vaping, his blood was going through the roof. I go, okay, why do you think that is? Why do you think it's strawberry-flaved? What the What the fuck do you think's in there, bro? You're eating candy all day. Like you're vaping on sugar.

Sugar oils? Yeah.

It has to be. I mean, if it's like, grape-flaved or whatever the hell it is. It's like, there's some... Also, Who knows what oil they're putting in those damn things. It stinks. It's probably made in China or somewhere. I watched a video on TikTok of these dudes testing them. So some dude is just sucking on each one of them to make sure they work at the factory.

What's going to happen to him?

I don't know what's going to happen to you because you're stuck on the same one that he was sucking on. Nobody cleans those things off. You just get them at the gas station, stick it right in your mouth.

That's like a karaoke mic. Yes. That's nasty. So nasty. Okay, I'm spending this out. Hold on to pause.

Oh, you're getting rid of it?

It's like a...

Buzz.

Yeah, like a little buzz.

Yeah, a little... You went next door.

Yeah, I like that. Excuse me, I'm going next door.

Yeah. So anyway, nicotine vapes. I don't think they're good for you. Folks, sorry. Because people thought they were healthier for you than cigarettes. But it turns out, no. Not only... Yeah, here's the state. Look, he's testing all of them. All those cute little pink ones. He's got to make sure they all work. By the way, how hooked is that guy? That guy must be fucking hooked. That's awful. Where is this taking place? I have no idea. Does it say in the... That guy has to test all of them. I would like to see what that guy's... Look, that guy looks like he's 15 years old. Did you see the bottom? No. It says seven to 8,000 tests per day.

That's terrible.

Bro, test his lungs. Because there's a thing called popcorn lung that kids are getting.

Yeah, I've heard of that.

The thing about these things is that they're very, very addictive. They're more addictive than I think, any other delivery method. And the thing about nicotine vapes is the first vape of the day is the only one you really want. The first vape of the day, I would take a vape and be like, This is wonderful. This feeling is wonderful. It's wonderful. And then you chase that dragon and you never get it back until the next day. The rest of the day, you're stuck on this thing, go...

Yeah.

Nope, nothing. I'm not getting it. I'm not getting that wonderful feeling. You have to have no nicotine in your system. And then you have that one hit. It's like, welcome me into your life.

Do these people get that feeling from those patches?

I don't think so. I think the patch just make you...

Oh. Like a little Adderall-y?

Yeah, it's like... I'm sure people have Adderall patches, don't they? Do they have an Adderall patch? No? Adderall is a sketchy one. I had someone here the other day was telling me they were doing Adderall right before. I did an Adderall just so I'm ready.

It's like a writing. It's very helpful for writing. I'm sure. It's like you don't want to have... I don't want to need it. So that's why I was like, What brain thing is going to take? What are Lucies?

What does it say, Jamie? Oh, amphetamine patch. There it It is. Sure are. Adhd treatment that lets you control your time, your way. They always say that. Like, look, there's a woman who's in control. Look at her with her jean jacket on her arms crossed. I'm in control. She's got a control posture. Look at her posture. I'm on a meth patch. I'm in control.

A meth patch, please, Lord, no.

You are literally on a drug that will kill your superpower. You got a superpower and you're killing it with a drug.

So you could focus on- I definitely don't a patch of that.

Yeah, no, thanks. I don't need it. Maybe somebody needs it. I don't want to judge. But the reality is that stuff, the amfetamines in any shape or form are highly addictive, and they're passing them out like candy. My daughter's in high school, and a bunch of kids in high school have air quotes, ADHD, and because of ADHD, they get Adderall. And then also they get more time on tests because they got ADHD. They can't focus. So they're fucking on speed.

It's the trick.

Yeah. Because it's very competitive. Parents want to get their kids into colleges. They're getting their kids diagnosed so they can get their kid hooked on whatever they're probably already hooked on, too. Because a lot of people that are adults are hooked on it. And you can tell those folks because they come to the parent teacher meetings and they can't shut the fuck up. And they just want to talk to you about everything. Oh, my God. They want to corner me and ask me about some episode I did. Oh, my God. I love that episode that you did with the guy about climate. They're so cracked out. They're so obviously cracked out. And there's a lot of people out there just running around cracked out, but they feel like they got it from the doctor. The doctor gave me this. I'll tell you, 30 milligrams, and I'm just a better person. I think it's better about all tasks.

I like to talk to that person daily. I feel like those people are everywhere.

They're everywhere? Yeah. Well, we looked it up. Use Perplexity, which is one of our sponsors, and find out how many prescriptions for Adderall they wrote in, let's 2024. Let's take a guess.

How many do you think? I mean, I could not even ballpark that.

I want to say 40 million. I bet it's 40 million prescriptions, at least. It's probably a lot more. But I'm going conservative, and I'm saying 40 million prescriptions for Adderall in 2024. What do you want? You want to guess? Yeah. Take a guess. I have to say... 51. 51. You're probably closer. I bet it's like 90. I bet it's nuts. I hope it's I bet it is because it's like individual people refilling prescriptions. I don't think it's like 90 million patients, but it's a lot. I bet it's all journalists. I bet most people that are writing things. I bet that... What is it? Okay. How many Adderall prescriptions were written in 2024? According to Puplexy, 45 million Adderall prescriptions written in the United States. Well, we were both in the middle. Yeah. What did you go? 51? Yeah. I said 40. Common It's commonly prescribed stimulants for conditions such as ADHD and narcolepsy. This number follow several years of notable growth. Huh? It's weird. More people need it.

It's up since 2019. Look at that.

Yeah. Notable growth. Data suggests the prescription rates began to decline slightly After a sharp surge during the COVID-19 pandemic and shortages affected. I'll stop. 2019, it was only 35. Interesting. So it's up 10 million. That's It's crazy. 41. 4 million in 2021 and 45 million by 2023. I bet there's a lot of people getting it illegally, too. Like, what's that number? Okay, let's- That's because there was that shortage. Right. They've recovered from it. Well, also once the shortage started, people got dealers. Sure.

But people are using mushrooms and stuff for that now, too.

That's a very different thing.

I've heard a lot about that.

Yeah. Microdosing mushrooms, that's a very different thing than Adderall. Yeah. That's like the opposite of Adderall.

Yeah. Even if it's for focus, right?

Well, I'm sure it'll help your focus.

On something.

Yeah, but you got to mind your Ps and Qs when it comes to your dosages. Also, where are you getting it from?

That's so scary for me. I'm like, Where is it from? Did you just go to the cow pasture? Because that's what teenagers do. I heard they were doing mushrooms. They're like cow-tipping and going... I'm from East Texas. Yeah.

Well, they definitely found them growing on poop. I mean, that's how all humans They originally probably discovered psilocybin. They found them on cow poop. But the thing about that, though, is you got to get them from somebody who knows what they're doing. They're all different, and you can get some that are crazy strong. There's some out there that will knock you into another universe. So what are you doing? Are you just eating a cap? Are you paying attention to the... Are you getting them in pill form? Who are you getting them from?

I have a friend who- That's all my questions, too.

Gets I came from a friend, and I was like, Who's the guy? It's a good friend. Who's the guy? You're not seeing these things get packaged? Just get the fuck out of here.

It's a little shady.

Super sketch. It's like marijuana edibles before the legality in California. When it was medical, it was crazy. Because now, because of the regulations in California, I think the most they could make them is 10 milligrams, which is normal. It's a normal dose. But before that, when it was medical, it became medical in the '90s, they would make 500 milligram Chiba Chews. These things, they're 500 milligrams, which is insane. It puts you in another dimension.

I never even heard of that.

They're so strong. And my friend Joey, who's a real demon. Joey used to take the rapper off of 25 milligram ones and give people a 500 milligram one instead.

Oh, he's a real demon.

And he would just laugh because he can tolerate insane doses. So he would give people preposterous amounts.

I have a songwriter friend, and I love her dearly. But whenever she says, Do this, I'm like, Do a quarter of that. Whatever that is to the public, do yourself a service. Do a quarter of that.

Some people have ridiculous tolerances.

For marijuana. Yeah, I mean, it's crazy. Yeah.

For anything.

I'm just over here taking a Lucy from a random dude.

It's only four milligrams. It's minor. It wasn't that bad, right? I would never... Like the nine, I would have told you. That's a lot. It's a lot. I have twelves.

What do you use those for? A real busy day?

I don't like them. They jolt me too much, but I have them. This is just because Lucy sent them to me. But I think the right dose is three or four. That's right. It's just a little pick me up, just a little.

Not the cracked out, not the cracked out soccer mom.

Yeah, not the cracked out. I've never tried Adderall. I'm scared of it. I want to try it one day because I'm scared of it because I'm like, I need to know what everybody's fussing about. Because everybody I know that's tried it is like, Don't try it.

You'll love it. You'll love it. You'll fucking love it. It is focused. I mean, it is. It really hones in.

I have a buddy of mine, and his wife told him to stop because he was snorting it because he was writing.

That's insane.

He's like, That's the best way to get it real quick. And he was like to his wife, he's like, Why do you care how I do it? She's like, You're snorting drugs while the kids are asleep. He's like, Okay.

Yeah, it's a little far, dude. Slow your roll.

He's not an addict, though. He just felt like- He's not an addict, though. He's not an addict. He felt like he had to snort to really get the most out of it quickly.

Like you said, everybody's trying to find something.

Because I think if you take it as a pill, it probably takes an hour before it kicks in, and he didn't have an hour.

So he's like, I have a deadline. Yeah. Does your friend that disappears, does he... He doesn't have a phone, no digital, nothing? No, nothing. I wonder if that digital detox is one of the the best ones, I feel like.

It's got to be the hardest. I've done social media detoxes for multiple days, and you genuinely feel better. And then you go, Why am I doing this to myself, where I don't do this all the time?

I know. All the time. Something that's annoying, if I can just say it, is that when people do take a break from social media, that's all they tell you about the whole time. Well, I'm on a break from social media. I'm like, Can you be on a break without telling anybody that you're on a break from social media?

Right. They have to tell you how virtuous they are. I am actually going to break social media unlike you. I'm like, Cool, bro. You, you little addict scrolling through cat videos.

Doomscrolling.

Yeah, there's a lot of doomscrolling. Yeah, it's like people who do yoga. They can't shut the fuck up about it.

Yeah, or people with a special diet. Oh, yeah. You're hearing about it.

Vegans are the worst.

You're going to hear about it. They're the absolute worst.

No one has ever met a vegan that didn't tell them they're vegan. It doesn't happen.

They always tell you. Never. Not like that.

They work it into a conversation. Eventually, they'll let you know how virtuous they are.

You can not eat meat and not tell anyone.

Yeah. Just do it as a spiritual growth. Just like an exercise.

It's your little secret with yourself.

Yeah. Your little secret with yourself is you're not on social media.

So don't. Tell me.

My favorite is people who are on social media making fun of people that are on social media because there's a lot of really not self-aware people. They're like, mocking people that spend all their time on social media while they're making videos on social media. Like, that's rich.

It overwhelms me, honestly. I'm trying to... You can't keep up with it. So I just... I I don't try to keep up with it. I was just talking on the way here. I was like, maybe I need to get on TikTok. There's a lot of music on TikTok. There's a lot of musicians. And we have a label now called Big Loud, Texas, our offices in Austin. And I'm like, I know there's amazing talent on there. And one of our flagship artists, Dylan Gosset, posted something awesome on there, and now he's out there crushing it. So I feel like I'm missing out. But then I'm like, do I need one more thing? I don't know.

It's like this- Do you have an assistant?

Battle Yeah, and I have a great management team, too.

This is great. Get your assistant on TikTok, and then tell them to let you know if anything's cool and show it to you.

She did that, and we signed a guy. His name is Alex Lambert. You got it. That's what happened.

Perfect. That way, you don't have to be on it. So you could avoid it, and She'll be a net that catches all the good fish.

Cameron, it's all you, girl.

Yeah, it's all you, girl. She'll catch the good fish. You don't have to go by the river. Just stay off that TikTok river.

I needed that talk today because we just had that talk on the plane on the way here today. Because it's a raging river of stuff.

I'm scared. Yeah, you should be scared.

I'm already like, everything's just a lot of information all the time.

I know. For me, it's like a show of force when I leave my phone on the night stand when I go to the bathroom. It's like, I'm going to take shit without my phone.

Do you tell everybody? Nope. See, good. She just told you. See, good. She just told you. See, you're not one of those. I'm on a social media break.

No. My wife has an app on her phone that shows how long she's been without social media. And if you want to go on social media, you have to go into the app, enter a password, and open everything up.

I think that's so smart. Oh, yeah.

And she showed me the other day. It was like 90 hours. I was like, That must feel so good. She's like, You feel different. You feel different. It's not good for you.

Bad for everybody. No, but we need it, but for some things, I get it.

It's great for artists. It's great to promote your work. It's great for comedians to put clips up. It's great for musicians to put songs out there. It's great. It is great in a lot of ways. I'm so happy it exists.

Oh, me too. I was stapling my posters to a phone poll when I started. I did it old school. Boots on the ground, walking up to the radio station, knocking on the door saying, Can I play a song? Really? Yes. Have you ever seen Loretta Lynn's life story? Have you ever seen Coal Miner's Daught? Yes. That. Me and my mom with Baloney Sandwich in my mom's Ford Expedition, driving around all over Texas, me going, I'm a singer songwriter. And now I'm like, I'm jealous of the way that people can do it now.

Yeah, but I think you probably develop so much character doing it the way you did it.

Yeah, I'm thankful for that. But I'm also like, Well, damn. These kids, they just post something, and like 100 million people see it in a night. Like, what's happening?

Well, the The problem with that is sometimes people get famed and not really ready for it yet.

And I think-100 %.

Doing what you did and going to bars and then eventually becoming famous after years and years of performing and promoting yourself and getting your chops on stage and really settling into yourself. That is so much better than being a 20-year-old kid that sits around and comes up with a song. Look at Oliver Anthony, all right? Oliver Anthony is a good friend of mine. He was selling fucking farm equipment. He makes that north of Richmond song, and all of a sudden, he's a giant superstar. And he's like, Dude, I had a phone call with him while it was going down.

Was he just like, Help? I mean, that's crazy.

Yeah, he's like, People are offering me money. I go, Don't take any money from anybody. Do not sign with anybody. I go, You don't need anybody. You already did it, right? You've got talent and you're already famous, right? You just made a giant hit song, Don't give away any of you. Don't sell it. He's like, Well, they're telling me I got to strike while they are. And so I'm like, Fuck those people. They don't know what they're talking about. You could do this again. You could do this again and again and again. Now that you already did it, it's going to be way easier the second time because everybody's going to be waiting to see what you say next.

Yeah, I know. And that's like, also, nobody... You can't learn. It's like you do the journey in reverse.

Well, he did the first show he ever did was a giant soul sold out the first time he ever performed live. Giant sold out show when he was already famous.

It's so mind boggling. I can't even put it into words because I'm thinking how you get your chops and how you did it fight by fight. You did it stage by stage, went during comedy. It just happened so fast. And then you still have to pay the dues, but it's just backwards.

The thing is, though, he paid the dues as a regular blue collar human being working. Yeah, he did, for sure. And that's where he developed his character. So that when it all came, he's like, oh, my God, I just stepped into a magic story. He had a regular story. And then all of a sudden, the genie came along and abracadabra, the Internet. And the Internet just put that song out there and everyone was like, Holy shit, this song's great. And all of a sudden, he's hugely famous. But he had character from being a real person.

17. You know what I mean? Yeah, it scares me. I'm just like, We still got to go do the work now. We still got to start developing who you are now, even though the world already knows who they think you are.

It's almost impossible if you start too young. We were talking about that with Michael Jackson the other day, that no one can teach you how to do that, and no one survives that. Everybody who's famous when they're a little kid, they're all fucked up. No one gets through.

It comes with a really high cost. You can see it.

Yeah. I always make the analogy that's like, you're making cement, but you don't put the right ingredients in, and you can't go back and remix it. If you don't put enough water in or you don't put enough sand in, that cement sucks. It's always going to be fucked up. And that's what it's like when you're a kid and you get famous. You didn't allow that person to mix correctly. Right.

I think that that's why I'm glad I didn't go to college, but I got to have the learning times of just being 17, 18, 19, 20, just learning life safe while playing music. But it was just in some dive bar somewhere. It wasn't in front of people. You know what I mean? You get to build your character. You get to figure out who you are. And that's why I think the Down by the River and the TikTok TikTok River. I learned two things. I'm going to refer to it as down by the river, and I need to go next door.

The TikTok River. Yeah. It's a raging river, too. That's a scary river. That river never stops.

It never stops. Which we're thankful for it, too, by the way. I found some great talent and learned some really cool recipes and get to talk about rescue dogs. There's the good things about it.

There's great things. It's basically a new element of human civilization that we have to contend with, that We've never figured out how to... There's no real precedent on how to navigate this, especially as a child. No children ever grew up with it before. These are the first children that are growing up with it. And no one can tell them how to do it right. We can just observe what's going wrong with it. It's real sketchy. It's real weird. And people say to me, do you let your kids on social media? I'm like, yes, because they have to be able to handle it and they have to know what it is. But also don't do it. One of my daughters, my youngest, also has that same app on her phone. She never goes on social media anymore.

How old is she?

She's 15. So she stays off of it and she'll watch YouTube. She'll watch YouTube videos or stuff like that. But social media, she's like, it just I don't like it. It's not good for it. And it gets in the way of school work, and it gets in the way of stuff she's doing. So she stays off it. But she's just wise. If I was 15, I'd be fucked. I would have been fucked. I was so dumb.

Oh, no. I don't believe that for a second.

I'd have been TikTok-ing all day. I'd have been making all kinds of stupid videos, try to get attention. And that's also part of the problem is that kids are doing things just to try to get attention rather than doing things because they really love an art form they're trying to get better at. If you make great song in your 17 years old and it goes viral, at least you're doing a thing, like you're doing an art thing.

Yeah, 100 %.

You're not just trying to get attention. And there's a lot of people out there that don't have a thing. They're just trying to get attention. If you ask young kids, what do you want to do when you grow older, when you grow up? A lot of them, a giant percentage of them just want to be famous.

I was about to say that. I saw whatever that study was and I read about it and it was like, but Famous for what? You just want to be famous? But what skill or what trade or what?

What are you- Just famous.

Why?

Kim Kardashian.

Why in the world? That sounds awful.

Because they see cameras going off and people are staring at you. And that's a person. That's an important person. A lot of people just want to be an important person. They want to be a person with the nice stuff. Like, look at the nice house and look at the nice cars and look at the nice watch and the nice this and the other. They just want to be an important person. And the society that they are growing up in shows them that all you have to do is be famous. Kim Kardashian is one of the most famous people alive. She doesn't do anything. It's not a thing, like we could point to, oh, she's the best. She's the best painter. She's the best singer. No, nothing. Zero. Zero things. Super famous, worth a billion dollars. And then kids are like, that's what I wanted to do, especially if they're dumb. And unfortunately, a lot of people are dumb. And those people never thought they would ever be famous before. But now you can be dumb and famous.

I mean, that's a statement. Yeah, dumb.

You can be dumb and famous and not be good at anything. Maybe you can be dumb, but you're the greatest baseball player of all time. That's great. And you're famous. But no, you're dumb and you're famous, and you don't do anything. You're not good at a thing. There's no fulfillment in that, right?

I know, right. It can't be.

There's not.

It If you're not great at the thing or a thing, or if you try a bunch of stuff and you suck at all of it, but you are working on it or whatever, there's fulfillment in that. There's an accomplishment. I paint folk chickens, and I'm terrible at it. You what? Just folk art chickens. I don't even know why. You paint folk chickens? I have no idea why. What does that mean? And they're not good at all. You make paintings of chickens? I just paint them on little canvases.

What's a folk chicken?

Well, I just call it folk art because it's bad. And when I look up folk art, I'm like, Oh, I can do that. Some folk art's amazing, but I look up folk art for beginners, then I get inspired. I'll be like, Oh, I could do that.

I've never heard that genre before.

Look it up. It's anything and everything.

Jamie, will you please look up folk art? What is the definition of folk art?

That stuff.

Oh, okay. Reflect the cultural life of a community associated with fields of folklore and cultural heritage. It's a 19th century concept.

I don't know anything about it. I just am drawn to it because I think it's cute and fun.

Do you have any of your stuff online? No.

It's in my backpack. I'm not going to show anybody. I painted one for my mom. She has to hang it up. Mom, she put it in her kitchen.

I didn't know that that was it. Show me some more of those images. I didn't know that that was a genre. I had no idea that that was a thing.

But I'm terrible at it, and I don't know anything about it. I would like to learn. I want to take some... I look up YouTube classes or whatever.

It's like, Keep it on there. It's not realistic. Folk Art Chicken. Folk Art Chicken. Okay, there's a Folk Art Chicken. Let's see.

Look, they're so cute. Look how cute they are. Okay. Like that one, like that little chunky one in the middle, the black and white one.

How about the whimsicle red hand above your cursor?

I'm only as good as Go back. That one. Yeah, that's about...

See that one that says whimsicle red hand right there above your cursor? Oh, she's cute. Above your cursor chain. Yeah.

Click on that one. See, I could... Oh, but that one. And I'll go to like, YouTube's a teaching me. All that to I'm trying something.

I think it's great. You're doing different things. Boy, some of these chickens are terrible.

How about that one? Hey, it's art. You cannot speak ill of that.

Chicken like that, I was like, that chicken, that's a drone. That's what I look like, for real? That's a drone. They're so bad. Put in my yard by China.

My husband is probably dying out there that I even brought this up. He's like, Are you talking about your super folk art chicken? So I'll just be in there, he's cooking, and I'm just like, I'm painting my chickens right now.

Always chickens?

I don't know why. I have no idea. It's easy. That's why. It's fate.

It's fate. You're designed to be the greatest folk art chicken.

That's my next song, folk art fate.

Painter of all time, folk art fate. Imagine if that's what it is. There's something compelling you to tell the world about chicken folk art. I guess so. Here we go. But why chicken? Do you have chickens? Yeah, I do have chickens. I have chickens.

I love chickens. Chickens are great, right? They're awesome.

They're really cute. They're the ladies. I go in the yard.

I'm like, Hi, ladies. That's what I call them. I say, Hey, ladies. I give them all the scraps. They love everything from the table, like any leftovers. It's funny to watch them, though, because they're picky. The other day, I thought they would eat leftover breakfast casserole. Wouldn't touch it. Really? But they didn't eat the biscuits. Chickens don't like biscuits.

Well, maybe they know the breakfast casserole is eggs. They're like, Jesus Christ, this lady's fucking nuts. She's trying to turn us into cannibals.

Diculous. I didn't think about that. Maybe it's like, Oh, no. What have I done to my ladies?

It might be a natural reaction to them. I'll tell you what they go crazy for is mice. Have you ever seen? What? Oh, yeah. So this is how I found out. I used to have a house in California that my wife, she changed our back fence. It was a wrot iron fence, and she changed it to glass. And when she did, she signed a death warrant for a bunch of hawks, and they kept slamming into that fucking glass. And three of them died in our yard, and one got KOed but survived. And I was on the road, and she had told me about it, and they'd taken this Hawk and they had put it in a box. And when I got back, we got them what's called pinkies. And what pinkies are, are these little baby mice. They feed them to lizards and snakes. That's what they're for. When you go to the pet store, they sell you these things. They're not weaned from their mother and you feed them to snakes. I know dark. So they bought a bunch of them and fed this Hawk, these little baby mice, and it ate all of them except one.

And my daughters were very young at the time. And they're like, We want to keep that mouse. We want to raise it. I'm like, Honey, you can't. It's not going to live. It's not weaned from its mother. It won't survive. I go, I'm just going to go see if the chickens will eat it. I put this thing down and these chickens attacked like they were raptors from Jurassic Park. One chicken grabbed it and they all chased her around. They were stealing it from her. What in the world are you saying? Pulling it out of her mouth. They are so ferocious. You've never seen anything like a chicken with a mouse.

I have never heard this in my life.

I'm going to show you a video. In this video, there's a bunch of videos of cats with mice. So this is a mouse. And what are these chickens? My God. They just kill this mouse. And look, they all attack each other, trying to steal the mouse away from the one chicken. Did they eat? Oh, they eat it quick. Yeah, they devour it. So there's another mouse in there that they don't know about yet. So see, there's one with a cat. So the cat is playing with the mouse. Like, cats don't kill it. They want to play. And this chicken just runs over and snatches it from the cat.

I have never heard this my life.

Look, the cat has a mouse and chicken's like, Give me that, bitch. Look, it's got a mouse. And the cat's like, Jesus Christ, you guys are psychos.

Who knew?

Yeah, well, because they're dinosaurs. That's where they are. They're just dinosaurs that are really small that survive the impact of the asteroid.

I also love dinosaurs, so maybe that's why I'm called to paint my full chicken.

You just don't realize how ruthless they are.

I've never heard this in my life. This is blown. I'm country as a pumpkin, and I've never heard this.

They destroy mice. Dang. They destroy them. They love them. They tear them apart.

Well, I'm not going to go do that, but I'm glad I know that now.

Like nothing I've ever seen before. We also saw a mouse that got loose in the chicken coop once. We had a big chicken coop and a mouse went in there and I saw these chickens just tear that mouse up.

Then my breakfast casserole is not offensive to them.

They're just eating their own babies.

They're not. We don't have a rooster.

Well, I know, but they don't know that. You know, they brood. Sometimes. I know.

I just let them sometimes. Do you? Well, sometimes they look at me like, Let me just sit on this. Okay, you can have it. That's your egg now.

Yeah, but they pluck their feathers out. I know.

That's a lot.

They get real... It makes you sad. It's like they They want to be a mommy. They do. Yeah. You don't let them.

We had a rooster once, but he did not last. I do not enjoy having roosters. They're ruthless little fuckers. They're mean.

They're ruthless little fuckers. Yeah, he attacked my wife, and she's like, We're done.

Me too. He attacked me. I'm out on rooster.

Yeah, they're assholes. But they're doing it because they're trying to protect their hens. They don't know that you're okay. They just think this big fucking thing is moving around their hens. This giant person thing.

They're also mean to the hens. Real mean. They're mean. Brutal. Ripping their feathers I'm like, I can't do it.

Yeah, they're nasty.

How many do you all have chickens?

We have 15, 15 or 16.

You don't name them?

Yes, I don't name them. But my daughter and my wife names them. But the rooster, he We only let him... He got to maturity, and then we gave him to a friend. We're like, this motherfucker can't... I was going to kill him. They're mean. Yeah, he attacked me. I went into the... I was like, you just got to show him who's boss. He's like, no, no. I'll take you too, bitch. Yeah, exactly. He attacked me. I was like, Bitch, I will fucking kill you. And so to avoid killing him, I gave him away. Well, that's good. Because I was totally ready to kill him. Because when I go in there, he'd face off against me and just leap at me and clot me.

Every time. My mom attacked me, too. And dad dealt with it. I don't know what happened to him, but dad dealt with it.

Soup. Turned him into soup. That's the thing about roosters, too. I guess you can't just outright eat them. They're really tough. So if you do kill them, you got to either slow cook them or turn them into soup.

Well, we probably did. He didn't tell me.

I had a landscaper back when I lived in LA who used to fight chickens, and he took me over his place once.

I hate that.

It was crazy.

I hate it.

He had like 100 roosters.

We have done some. Boxers. Mut Nation has done. We're not just... We don't just help dogs. We help all animals, but dogs are focused. But we've helped break up some chicken rings in the past.

It's crazy. It's still around.

It's awful. We have a farm in Tennessee, and There's this whole farm down the road, and they keep them in a tiny cage. I just hate it. And every time we report them, they just pay the fine. You know what I mean?

Well, it's a part of their culture. That's the problem, and they all gamble on it. I know. He was Mexican and from Mexico, and he had all these friends that lived in this neighborhood where he lived in. You might as well have been in Mexico. It was crazy. Everything was in Spanish. And when I went over his place, it's like his buddy, we went over his buddy's place. His buddy had like 100 cages in the backyard in a pit where they would take the roosters. It's just awful. Yeah. And they put spurs on them.

It's so terrible.

So they put these like, knives on their claws.

We got to be part of some of the... But when you confiscate that many mean... The euthanasia. I mean, you can't reintroduce them into the world. You know what I mean? They're taught to be mean. They're bred for that.

Yeah. And they'll breed champion roosters from champion other roosters.

Let's just stick to our little backyard hens. How about that?

Yeah. It's a weird thing because their culture has been, they fight them and then they take the loser and they cook them. And he was making it seem like it was no big deal. And it was like to them, it was their gambling recreation. They would all gather around and guys would come from long distances to bring their chickens to fight.

I hate it.

Yeah. To me, it doesn't freak me out as much dog fighting. Dog fighting drives me nuts. Because pit bulls are the... Look, they're very dangerous because they have a very high prey drive and they often don't... They confuse children with other animals. But as pets, they are the most loyal- They're the most loving. They're the sweetest.

Kind.

They love you to death. They love you so much. But there's so many bad ones, and so many ones that are raised just to fight. And that part of our culture, that part of society, the underground dog fighting part, is like, how can you do that to a dog? How can you do that to the best animals?

It's scum of the earth, is what it is. I feel like I have some friends that are huge into Pitbull rescue, and when they're either rehabilitated or just... They get a bad rap period, right? Say any Metro shelter you go to, it's 90 % Pitbulls because people are afraid. Yeah. They get such a bad reputation, but there are some amazing pitties that weren't ever in the fighting rings. They were just overbred and taken out of a confiscation of a hoarding situation or breaking up the fighting ring. And it's the mama dog that's just been having puppies. And I just wish people would at least open their minds and hearts to, there are some amazing pitties out there or pity mixes. There are, but they're also very dangerous. I get it.

I know. They are. They go around other dogs, they will fight those dogs to the death.

I think they have to be vetted. It has to be a well-vetted shelter or adoption.

But the problem is oftentimes you don't know their behavior until they're around other dogs. I've had dogs that were great around people, and then I get them around any dog and their hackles would go up and they immediately wanted to fight. And you're like, oh, God. And then you're the asshole because your dog is pulling on the leash and you're like, I'm sorry. Let me get them out of here. Right. I know. They're dangerous. They're dangerous in that regard because they really are bred to fight.

And I think takes a special household and owner, too, to really handle a dog like that.

100 %.

Our best friend's Gwen. She's in my band, and her and her husband are long-time Pit Bull rescue family. And they just know how to deal with them, and they come around our dogs. They're fine. Everything's fine. But it's definitely an alpha male. They show them who's boss right away, and they understand the food chain of the house. You know what I mean?

Yeah. There's dogs that are great dogs, but they just need a lot of attention. If you have a German Shepherd or a Belgian Malamois, you got to give those things something to do.

You got to know what breed you're getting to. I feel like people, I always preach adopt, don't shop, but I still think you within the adoption really need to go, I'm going to spend some time with this dog. I'm going to talk to its foster family. I'm going to foster it just to really understand what breed you're getting. If you want a lazy, cuddly thing, but still protect her, get a You know what I mean? Just know what you're getting. Just understand as my household ready, because there's a lot of the... What breaks my heart the most is the owner surrenders and the returns at the shelters. You know what I mean? It's like you didn't think through what you were Right.

And the dog already thought it had a home, and now you bring him in.

Because you wanted a lazy dog, and you got a cow dog, and it needs to run.

Great Pyranies are great because they're a a combination of a lab and a protecting dog. They're a great little balance. I have a friend who is a Pyrenees, and it's like, such a good dog. And he's like, listen, man, if coyotes come around here, this fucking dog fucks them up. I go, Really? And he goes, Oh, yeah. You ain't never seen a change of personality like this dog when it sees a coyote.

But then they're like, laid up on the couch, their legs in there. The sweetest.

Just rub my belly.

It's the best.

I have a Golden. He's the best unless you're a squirrel. And then he's these hell. Then he's a demon. He's a squirrel killer. But other than that, he's the sweetest boy. He's just so nice to everybody. Everybody who comes over the house like, You're my best friend.

Golden to the best.

They're so sweet.

But I love them all. I love them all. We have a Chihuahua. You're getting a Chihuahua, you know what you're getting. Mean as hell.

And nervous.

Oh my God, so mean. She's 16 and blind, and she still tries to bite. She don't know where you are, but she's like, But I could get you.

16 is old.

And blind, that's a bad.

Oh, my God.

Senior dog house over here.

Have you had her since she was a baby? Yeah.

Wow. Doctor her from a shelter when she was eight weeks old. We got two seniors now. I was crazy dog lady when my husband met me and I had eight rescues. It seems crazy now, but I have farm and land, and three were Pyranies, two Golden Mixes, and then three little I don't know what. And I've lost one every year for six years. And so after this, we have two seniors left, and my husband's like, My heart can't take this. He never had dogs growing up. He loves dogs. But he was like, this is awful. Like, ever since we met, we've lost one because they're stair-step in age. And so I'm like, my heart needs a break.

It's hard. It's hard when they die. It's so hard. You're so close to them, and they only live to be 15 or 13, and then it's over.

They're put here to show us true love. I know. They really are.

Meanwhile, they're not. Meanwhile, what they are is we took wolves and turned them into bitches. That's what really, really would happen. I have a King Charles spaniel. He's the sweetest.

Is that Charlie?

That's Charlie. He is the sweetest. He's so cute. You pick him up, you just kiss his your face. He's just so adorable. That was a wolf. At one time, someone took a wolf and turned that wolf into a bitch and like, you're not enough of a bitch. Let me turn you into more of a bitch. And more floppy ears.

Now we have Bernadoodles.

It's so weird what humans have done to dogs. I know. We've created all these totally helpless little tiny breeds. I know.

It's weird.

Shitsus and all these little tiny things. Picanese.

Yeah, these little weird little- But they're all amazing, and there's plenty at the shelter that you all should go check out.

Look, they're amazing. I love them, but it is a weird thing that we've done. I know. Because they all used to be wolves at one point in time. Yeah. That's got to be It's the weirdest transformation of an animal by human interaction is wolf to dog.

I just wonder the first one to do it.

Do we know? They think it was just like cavemen by the fire, and wolves would come around, and they had killed something, they'd throw them a bone. And the relationship became the wolves would let them know if intruders were coming. And then eventually they softened to the point where they could sleep with these people. So they were like household animals or or at least stay around the house. And they trusted them to protect their children. And then they developed different breeds that were better at herding sheep. Because you got to think, most wolves killed sheep. So all of a sudden you could teach a dog to make sure the sheep don't get killed by wolves, which is nuts.

It's nuts, and it's incredible to watch. And watching dogs, like bird dogs. It's one of my favorite. And also the canine units, they blow my mind. The things these dogs can do and the stamina they I have.

I think the biggest freak dog that's ever been created is the Belgian Mellon law. Oh, yeah. That is a fucking crazy dog. When you see them run up walls and fly through the air.

They're insane. But that's one of the dogs you're like, you need to know what you're getting. Oh, yeah. You need a dude that can run with his dog. All day.

And you can't leave him alone. And you can't like, Hey, man, can you watch my dog? I'm going to be gone for a week. Like, Nuh-uh. Nuh-uh. Hard pass. That dog's coming with you, bitch. Exactly. You need to- That dog is watching you. Yeah, that dog needs activity. Yeah. Have you ever seen the video of the difference between the way a German Shepherd approaches an assailant versus a Belgian Malmoy? No. So they do these drills where they have a bunch of chairs in a room and the German Shepherd runs around the chairs to try to get to the guy who's got the bite suit on. The Belgian Malmoy goes over all the chairs, just like, flies through the air, barely touching the chairs. Watch this. So here's the Shepherd. See how the Shepherd runs around? And he's like, I'm going to get you. I'm going to get you. And he finds and he bites you. Watch the Belgian Malmoy. As soon as they let him go, he's like, Fuck these chairs, right over them.

That's incredible.

They're just meat missiles. They're meat missiles. They're designed to go fuck things up. That's their task all day long. And they're crazy smart. They're really smart. It's intimidating. Oh, yeah. They look at you like a raptor in Jurassic Park. They're checking you out. What are we doing? Am I killing you? Or are you just one of my dad's friends?

That's a perfect analogy.

They're looking right at you like this.

And you're Can I pet it? Or is he at work right now?

He's working. Yeah. Yeah. I don't ever pet Malamois unless I know for sure. Yeah. They're just... It's a working dog. It's a different thing. Same. You know? I mean, but it's also crazy that they How did you get out of the way to make a dog into that. How can you make a dog into my dog, which is just a cuddle? He's just a cuddle bug. He just wants to lie down with you. Like today we're watching TV. He just cuddles up. He's got his head in my lap, and I'm patting him, and we're watching TV. He's so happy. You're like, That's a wolf.

He used to be a wolf. The only one I think about in my house that used to be a wolf is my Chihuahua because she's the meet us.

How ironic. That is a wolf. That's so funny. But it's just so crazy that they figured out a way to make a wolf into a thing that protects animals from wolves. Yeah.

Nuts. I didn't think about it like that.

I mean, some of them. Have you ever seen that? What is that shepherd dog, that crazy giant one from Russia? What is it? That enormous... What is it called? Not from Russia. It's like a mountain shepherd. It looks like a werewolf. And it's got really crazy thick hair because of the climate that it lives in. But it's like 200 pounds. This enormous thing that protects- What is it? Caucasian shepherd. That's it. Caucasian Caucasian Shepherd. It literally looks like a werewolf. Like that werewolf that we have out front, American werewolf in London. That's scary. That's what it looks like. And they just... Look at that.

Oh, I've seen those. I just didn't know what they were called.

Crazy. See if you can find one that's doing bite work.

But look, that one looks sweet.

Yeah, unless you break into the house. I mean, that thing's great. Google Caucasian shepherd training or bite. It's right there.

Oh, God, that does look like the thing in the front.

That's fake. But look at the size. That's one pretending to... So there's one that's doing bite work, though, in that other image. That's the word for them. It's like a word of charka. Like, that is a Big ass dog. And that's another dog that they use to protect against wolves. Look at the size of that sucker.

I mean, it's huge.

So what are they doing here?

Where are they? They're Russian?

That looks like they're transporting it. Training a YouTube channel. Oh, okay. They're training it. With a big bag of shitty dog food. That dog food that people buy. I know. That stuff's so terrible.

You do Farmer's Dog.

Me, too. Yeah. We started off with another company called Maeve, which is great. It's frozen. But just the way he eats Farmer's Dog, the way they eat it, it must taste way better. And it's the same thing. It's real food. It's frozen. You get it frozen, thaw it out and feed it to him. When he's ready to eat, he devours it.

I had to start that with my senior dogs because they just had all kinds of things, and everybody had ailments and needed pills and everything else. And I was just like, all right, we're just going to do the expensive dog food. But I had three Pyranese rescues, two Golden Rixes, and three littler dogs. I'm like, This is like $700 a batch for all you all to eat. So I started making it for a while, too. I would just make ground turkey vegetables. Oh, that's great. But I just couldn't keep up with it. So Farmer's Dog is what we used to.

Well, it's definitely way better than regular dog food because way better. Anything that can sit on the shelf can't be for you. It just can't. It's filled with preservatives, and that's not good for dogs.

It's like us living on Cheetos, I feel like.

Exactly.

But sometimes I want to eat them. Sometimes I love them.

If you were stuck in a cabin for a week and you couldn't get out, and there's an unlimited supply of Cheetos in the cabin, you're going to live. But you're not going to feel real good.

No, I'm not. People are always like, What's on your rider? I'm like, Cheetos and Cheetos, that's all I need. Is that it?

That's your rider? Cheetos and Cheetos. That's hilarious. That's hilarious. Some people have wacky riders.

What's on your rider?

Not much.

I have a cheese tray, maybe.

Yeah, I have a meat tray. A meat tray. When I was drinking, we would definitely have some whiskey on there and maybe a bottle of wine, but I really don't drink anymore. Not that I... Yeah. I wasn't an alcoholic, so it's not like I can't drink. I had a glass of wine with dinner the other night. But it's not... I don't drink anymore. I would go to my comedy club with my friends or we go on the road. I'd have a couple of glasses of this and a couple of glasses of that and a margarita at dinner. And then the next day I'd feel like shit. And it wasn't ever like I couldn't stop. It was just I did. And then one day I was like, I think I'm just going to stop for a while and see how I feel. And I felt so much better, so much better. Because I was drinking two or three nights a week, sometimes four. I go out on a date with my wife, I have a couple of drinks. I go to the Comedy Club, I have a couple of drinks. Maybe I have a drink or two with someone in the studio.

Yeah. I feel like that's showbiz. I mean, it's just part of it. It's part of our culture. We have to bring the party, too. That's the other thing. It's like, How am I supposed to bring the party if I'm not partying with you? Right.

That's a problem. Yeah. Yeah, that's a problem.

Especially in the honky-tong days. I came up in a beer joint I'm talking about like, five bars. You know what I mean? You just start getting in it with people, and then you're on your day off. You're like, Oh, we're going to have a nice date and have a drink. You know what I mean? It's spirals. I know. But I love it. I love it, too. I love red wine. It's my favorite thing.

I don't hate drinking. I just hate how I feel the next day. But I'm not... I'd say I'll never do it again. But for now, I'm not doing it anymore. But I'll still have a drink or two. Not even two. Not even two. I drink. I didn't even have a full glass of wine the other day. I had a half a glass of wine. I'm like, We're good. But if somebody has a bottle of Buffalo Trace and we're sitting around talking shit, I want to have a couple of drinks. I might.

You're just giving yourself permission to be wherever you are.

I'm just trying to be healthier. That's what it is. And I recognize that if I do all these healthy things for my body, I work out all the time, I eat so well, I take all these vitamins. Why am I letting myself get poisoned four nights a week? That seems stupid, especially with my lifestyle. It's better. Even if I just limit it to one night a week, it's better. But really, it's better just not. The reality is it's not good for you.

I know, but it's fun.

It is fun. It is fun. Catching a buzz is fun. Some of my favorite podcast we've ever done. When we do Protect Our Parks, we get hammered.

They're fun. Yeah, I bet.

Yeah. I mean, people aren't doing it because they're stupid. There's a reason why they enjoy being drunk and have for thousands.

Thousands of years.

I mean, it's probably responsible for so many relationships starting in the first place, so many people meeting people, so many fun friendships.

A lot of the memories, too. It's like on the road after the show. It's like when everybody's just really being themselves.

It's also a culturally acceptable drug that most people know how to consume. I mean, they might do it wrong or they might get too drunk or DUI or be an asshole. It's possible, but it's enough of a normal thing that a good percentage of people know when they've had enough. And they know the right dose. You have a couple of drinks, you're like, I'm good. You know where you're at. Whereas any other drug that you're trying today is illegal. And any other drug, it's like, who knows what's going to happen? And if you want to go next door, like really next door, next door.

I'm going down the street. Yeah.

You can go down the street with whiskey.

With a margarita.

With a whiskey, you can go to another town.

It's martini. It's Everybody knows. Do not drink more than two martinis. Are you an insane person? You can't. No one can do that. Everyone knows it? Everyone should know it. I feel like that's what really- Do you know Bert Kreischer?

Mm-mm. That motherfucker could put some martinis down. Really?

I'm like, Two is good. That's straight up.

Well, you're smart.

Just straight. And then have your glass of wine, whatever you want. When you see somebody sitting at a bar by themselves at three o'clock, and then you're like, Dang, that's our third There's a third martini. They're about to hit the deck, and they're fine. I'm like, something's going to happen later.

They probably do it all the time. Something's going to happen later. They probably do it all the time. That's the thing.

Here's your sign.

It's supposedly better for you, right? Isn't it? Do you drink Tito's, like a A vodka martini is probably... Is a gin martini the same?

I don't know. I'm a Titos and Topo, Al. Titos and Topo.

They say that clear liquor is better for you, right? Don't they say that?

I don't know. We've made excuses for every single thing we want to do today.

They say tequila is the best for you.

This nicotine is great for us. Yeah, it's good for the brain. This Tito's is clear. It's awesome.

It's supposedly better for you, isn't it? Is there a reason why clear liquor is a real reason why clear liquor- There's less additives in it. There you go. Less additives. That's it? You're pretty sure. Even tequila has got... You got to find the good stuff. Right. But if you find the good... That's the other thing. I was reading this thing about how much tequila is fake. How much tequila is not really made with agave.

That's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot of fake. That will hurt your ass. I mean, tequila will. It's not forgiving if you abuse it.

It's a certain drunk, too.

Don't ask me how I know.

Tequila is like a shootout with the cops drunk.

Yeah, that's like, I shot my TV with my shotgun drunk.

It's a high speed chase drunk. Tequila is just like, oh, we're drunk on tequila. Yikes. You just picture yourself doing something definitely incorrect. Yeah. It's a funny thing I guess it makes sense, though, that music and and comedy in a lot of ways is connected to drinking because drinking lowers inhibitions and it makes you want to sing along and it makes you want to dance. And maybe you don't feel like you got the confidence to dance, but you get a couple of shots. Fuck it. Let's get on the dance floor.

It's this. It's like, raise your... It's just that. It's like a feeling, and you're part of the party and you're You're part of the song and you're part of the song, and you're part of the show, or whatever. I think music and comedy are the most as far as show business. That people just feel like that's something that they go there to do. Right.

Well, the two things that you have to go see live. You don't have to. You can just listen to music on your phone and all that stuff. But the reality is it's way better if you're there live. Going to see live music to me is so inspirational because I don't have any skill at live music at all. I don't have any musical talent. I can't play any instruments. So it's just I don't ever think like, I wonder why they did it that way. I see where the girl was at. You can just enjoy it. I could just be entertained. That's great. And I think music is a drug in and of itself because it does something to you. A great song does something very powerful to you. It'll make you feel powerful emotions or powerful inspiration. It does something that nothing else does in a weird way.

And it feels so good when you have a song that somebody comes up and says, That song changed my life. That song, I have one called House That Built Me that's the one people come up to me the most. They're like, That's my story. And I didn't write it. I'm like, but that's when I heard it, that's why I was like, this is my story, too. And as a songwriter, when you write a song like that, that's the ultimate reminder of, This is why I do that. It made made somebody feel something. It made somebody get through something. It made somebody want to punch somebody, whatever the emotion is, as long as it brings out emotion. We've done our job, right?

Think of how many people you've done that to, how nuts that is. You've had so many hit songs. You've had so many songs that resonated with people, where they all felt that feeling when that song came on. Like, Oh, this is my song. This is my song.

Turn it up. I have a lot of the feisty. I mean, I'm a little calmer now, but it used to be quite the fire cracker. It was just,. There's a reason I have revolvers tattooed on my arm, and now I'm shooting them off course. It's just a little pistol personality, I guess. And so my feisty songs, I mean, every single show, pretty much every single show, there's a girl fight in the pit. Really? Yeah, they just get riled up. Girl fights in your shows? They get riled up. I'm telling you, they just get... I mean...

I wonder if you have more girl fights than other female singers. I don't know. I bet you do. If every single show, you have a girl- Almost every show. I bet that's real odd. Have you talked to other female singers? Do they have similar stories?

I haven't asked. How many girls fight your show, though?

Yeah, you should ask.

You should totally ask. Because it's towards this part where it's like, I call it my ramp up. It's like, come powder and lead, little red wagon, mama's broken heart. And they just start getting wound up.

Yeah, they think about their ex, that motherfucker.

Or he's there and they're fine. It's just a lot. He's there with another woman. I have a front row seat to it. I'll stop if it gets real bad, I just stop and go, Hey, all. Tone her down a little bit. Really? Every show? Almost every show.

That's really odd, Miranda. I know. I think that's odd. I think that that might be a very specific reaction that you have on people.

Maybe. I'm pretty calm now. I'm like, It's all right. We got some ballots coming up. Everybody take a sip, take a seat. You all settle down.

I think it's great. They're feeling something. Yeah.

Bringing out of motion. That's my job.

Yeah, 100 %. I bet it's great at the gym, those songs. They think about that bitch they punch at the concert. I have a lot of those like, Girl, you're my bitch.

Those girls there. I love it. I love that.

Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, you can't buy that. That's a weird feeling. It is. You have to earn that feeling.

You'll have to come to a show that's one that I know for sure is going to be one of those.

I would love to. I would love to.

And watch from the stage.

I loved you at the McCanet event. It was amazing.

That's such a cool event, too.

It's such a good event.

I love all those boys. Jack Ingram is one of my heroes from back in the day. I started watching him when I was 15, and he had such charisma, and that's why I'd be like, I want to do that. Oh, really? That's awesome. I've known him for a really long time.

It's such a cool thing when you're going to an event like that, and it's for a great cause. So everybody's super positive about why they're there. It's not just It's just to have fun. It's also it does like such an amazing service for people.

It does. And they do such a good job with that show. They do. It's put together so well.

You know who blew me away at that show, too? Is Lucas.

Yeah, he's great. I love him. He is great.

When people are like, oh, it's Willy Nelson's son. I'm like, oh, okay, that'd be cool. And then he started saying, I was like, holy shit. Like, this guy's fucking great. He's great. He's not just good.

He's great. Great musician. And he's a great guy. Sweetheart. He's a sweetheart.

Super sweetheart. Yeah. Yeah, I've had the pleasure of getting to know him now. He's a really nice guy. A genuine nice guy. But God, can he say? He can.

Especially when he does that soul stuff, when he really leans into the more soul stuff, it just makes him shine. Because it's just so different than what people would think it was going to be. Right. You know?

Right. And his pipes. When the notes he has, I was like, God.

And when he goes for it, he like, sings with his body, his whole body. You know he's going for it, and I love it. And he does this, I don't know, it's going to hurt later in life, but he does this back bend thing. He's on his knees, he's like, all the way back playing a guitar solo, and I'm like, Girl, how does he do that? Is that adrenaline or what is that? Stretching.

It's just stretching.

Yeah, I could probably do that a decade ago. Not now.

I bet you could.

I'm not going to try. Well, not on stage.

Well, you must have core strength to be on that horse when you're shooting at things.

You're stabilizing yourself. You know what helps with that is Pilates. Oh, I'm sure. I ride so much better when I'm doing consistent Pilates.

I did Pilates once with my wife. I was like, Oh. It's hard. It's hard as shit. A lot harder. It's like yoga in a way that people think, Oh, yoga. You're just going and stretching. No, no, no. Go do it. It's fucking hard. It's hard. It's hard. And Pilates is hard. I was like, oh, this is weird. This is using weird muscles.

Yeah, like shaky ones. You're like, why am I shaking?

Yeah. Like, stabilizing muscles. But it's like a really good thing to balance out other stuff, but that would definitely improve your core strength and allow you to be able to...

When I first started riding, I was like, I'm still not great. And I still have fear on a horse. I'm just not super comfortable all the time when we're going fast. So I'm just learning to work up to that. But when I first started riding, I didn't start riding a horse ever until I was 30 years old, and I wish I'd started at four when I was fearless. You know what I mean? Right. But starting at 30, getting on this giant animal and you don't know what you're doing. And my trainer at the time was like, You need to do Pilates. And so I started Pilates, and it really helped me. It helped me stabilize myself a little more.

That's interesting. Your trainer told you to do Pilates to help horse riding.

She was training my horses and teaching me how to ride. She was like, You do not have core strength at all. You need to go do Pilates.

That's interesting that you would choose that. I guess that makes sense. But I would think that there's other stuff you could do, too. You ever see what a bow suit ball is. You know what those things are? Like standing on that ball with a flat bottom to it where you're balancing.

Yes. And they have this... It's like this saddle you sit on, and it's for that. It's almost like one of those balls, but it's a saddle you sit on. Like if you're sitting on a yoga ball, but it's a saddle. And like my shooting coach, Kenda, my friend, Kenda, she'll tell me, get your gun belt on and get your guns out and sit on your... Is that the yoga ball? The big one? The big workout ball? Mm-hmm. Sit on that and shoot off That makes sense. Like when you're doing your drills or whatever.

Because you got to stabilize. It's all just about stabilizing. I know a lot of people sit at their desk on one of those.

Yeah, which is smart.

I guess.

I'm glad I don't have to sit at a desk. I don't think I'd do well.

Well, I have to sit at this desk. But these chairs, they keep you upright. These are really good. Yeah, they're comfy. They're good. They make you sit correctly, or at least encourage you to sit correctly rather than a... But when you started doing that, when you were 30, how long did it take before you started shooting guns off of a horse?

I just I started that last year. Oh, okay. I just started last year. I showed Gipsy Vanners. They're like, Lazy Draft Horses. I got into those because I was 30 and I can't afford to get hurt. I'm on the road all the time. So I wanted something safe to learn on.

Have you fallen before?

Oh, yeah. Falling up 100. Really? Yeah. I mean, I tried to do Hunter Jumper. I thought I wanted to be... I was all excited. I'm like, I'm going to be a cowgirl at 30 years old. I'm like, I'm going to I want to finally be a cowgirl. I want a bear race. Well, then I learned that I don't want a bear race, which the guns, it's patterns, and it's going fast around. You have to go around a bear. So back to that. But this old cowboy trainer where I got my first horse, he was like, You need to go take English lessons because you need your fundamentals because you're not just going to get a Western saddle and act like you know what you're doing. Go take lessons because English is so proper. What is English lessons? English, it's like the hunter jumpers, like the dressage. It's like the very proper English writing teaches you the fundamentals. Look, I'm sitting up straighter talking about. To where Western is a lot more loose. And so it just taught me a lot taking English lessons. But I thought I'd do hunter jumper, which is like jumping over the poles.

Right.

And that's where I really hit the ground a few times. I wasn't ready for that. You know what I mean? It's been a cool journey. It's a lot to learn.

It's a lot to learn. I'm imagining it's also I feel rough on the body, too.

Yeah, it is. That's why I'm like, give me your safe. Is my cool? My horse, he is super safe. I want to learn really badly, and I want to grow and be better, but I don't want to do it at a certain cost.

Do you enter competitions or anything?

I showed my Vanners for 10 years. What does that mean? I just went to horse shows.

You said some words I don't understand. I showed my vanners.

My vanners. That sounds dirty you say it back like that. What's a vanner? No, it's my... Gipsy vanners are the horses I have. So I went and showed them in competitions, just English pleasure, Western pleasure, just riding around the rail, and it's about your technique.

Oh, okay.

It's not jumping or...

So it's just about being in control of the horse?

Yeah, it's your technique. Making the horse listen to you?

Yeah.

And then I got into the shooting, and I'm not going back.

Are you going to do competitions with the shooting?

I did one last year just to get my first one out of the way. It was fun. I mean, scary. It was scary as shit, honestly. But all these girls I ride with are so good. They go A hundred miles an hour. I got to show you, Kinda. Is her video over? Yeah, she's amazing. What's her last name? Lansane. It's L-A-N-S-E-S-I-E-N-G. Google it. I'm selling her. Jamie will find it. She's amazing. They go so fast. It's a timed event, right? So you're competing just against you, really. How precise and how fast you could go on your horse.

So you have a green light, and then you go?

Green light, you go.

How do they start you off? You do. What do they say?

They, a flag.

Oh, they drop a flag, and then you go? And then you go.

I didn't go that fast. I did mine in 28 seconds. She does it in Eight seconds. Seven seconds.

Same course?

Yeah. It's insane. She's amazing. But that's why it's something to work towards.

How many times has she wiped out?

She broke down as hell. She broke down. She has Calgary broke down But she's still going. She wiped out so bad last year and just gets right back on, keeps going. Riding in a cast like it's Calgary.

Riding in a cast. Tough. That's tough. They're tough. Yeah. People are built different.

They are.

You got any videos? I just found Here we go. I want to see this.

She's awesome.

Because I saw that you were doing that. I was like, That's bananas. But it looks like fun.

It is fun.

Do they have one of those where they do bow and arrow?

They have bow and arrow. There she is. Oh, here she goes. They have bow and arrows, rifles. The rifles are crazy.

Imagine this lady running up to you on a ranch with a pistol in her hand.

She is legit. That's crazy. She's one of my besties.

Is there a high speed where they're not showing it? Here it goes. Oh, wow. That's crazy. Oh, man, this is awesome.

She is a literal never misses.

Oh, now I get it. Okay, this looks like fun.

There's 83 patterns, so the horse never runs the same pattern.

Wait a minute. How is she shooting that many times?

It's five shots in a gun change.

Oh, you have to change your gun?

You have to change your gun. Yeah.

So how many shots is it total in one of these rounds where you run?

Ten.

Ten. Okay, so you have 10 things.

This is like a highlight reel.

But yeah. Ten shots.

Yeah. So that's my bestie who's teaching me how to do it.

That's awesome. Well, that's how to learn.

She's awesome.

Learn from a psycho. Exactly. She looks completely insane. You got to have a serious screw loose to be good at that. Wow. Oh, my God. Look at this, dude. Oh, This is her.

That's her and Charles. Wow.

Yeah. How about you, Kinder? 12 and 0, 7, 0. I don't know what those numbers mean, but it looks awesome.

It looks like fun. Yeah, it's really fun. And it's... I don't know.

It's a very country thing to be involved in.

Well, guess what? There you go. Guess what, Joe?

It's perfect.

It's perfect for you. We talked about chickens. We talked about dogs. We talked about guns on horses.

Archery, hunting, fill in the blank.

Titos and Titos.

Yeah, exactly. But that's a very country activity because it's not just horse riding. It's horse riding with pistols. Yeah, I mean, come on.

I love it.

It's funny that I didn't know that that was such a big thing. See if there's one where they do it off with bowls and arrows. I want to see that.

It's crazy. I haven't seen that in person, but the rifles.

Oh, rifles?

They do, too? They do it with rifles. That makes sense. And you don't have reins. Because you use two hands to shoot the rifle. So they're riding with their legs.

Whoa. Right? Right. And the horse is making wild turns. So you have to crazy strengthen your legs to keep you in place.

That needs a lot of pilates.

Oh, yeah. So you can find one where they're doing it, Bows and Arrows. Because I know that that's how the Mongols did it. That's how the Comanches did it. They learned how to shoot while they were... They learned how to time the release of their arrow while the horse was in the air. They had the least amount of disturbance. What is this one? Epic equestrian mounted archery. But is this a competition? I don't know that there's many of them. I don't know that there's-Oh, yeah. So they have targets. Yeah, but this looks like a British horseback archery.

See, she's in a dressage saddle doing that.

Oh, yeah. Look at this. The guy's got the crazy mongle hat on, too. Oh, that makes... Look at that.

That's cool. Is that your next hobby? No.

I don't fuck with horses. I like them. I love them. I think they're awesome. I don't want to ride them. There you go. There's a whole thing for it. Oh, that's cool.

That's like a pattern.

Yeah, so very similar. Similar deal. Tarrant tactical for horses. Yeah, exactly. Tarrant tactical is a tactical range in California. We That's where Keana Reeves learned how to shoot guns. I used to go there when I lived in California. You do like, shoot already, and you go through a tactical course.

That's where we shoot out in Scottsdale. It's a bit called Ben Avery shooting facility, and it's All of that. Anything that can be shot is shot there. So Kenda had them build a rodeo arena so we could do our balloons.

That would be the coolest thing to have on your property, to have a tactical range right on your property.

This place is huge. It's out there in the desert, so there's plenty of space to do all things.

That's what I was thinking about, the shooting pistols on the horses. When did they figure out to not use bullets? Because there had to be a time.

Something happened. Something happened. And the horses wear earplugs, too, which is great.

They probably had to figure that out later in life, too.

Horses wear earplugs.

But when did they figure out? How many people got shot before they realized, Hey, we probably shouldn't be using real bullets to shoot these balloons?

Yeah, Black Powder might be a better call.

Because you You got all those people in the audience, and then you got someone on a horse.

It is. And she catches hell for it. People are like, You can't be... She's like, It's spectator safe. It's safe for the horses. Everybody wear earplugs. It's Black Powder.

Who gets mad?

People. Everybody wants to bitch about something. Right.

But that's just how it's going.

You would know more than anyone. I don't need to tell you.

You can't make everybody happy. It's impossible. No, you can't. And you're always going to make someone mad. As long as you're really that, you'll be okay. And as long as you stay offline.

Yeah. Stay off that TikTok.

Stay out of that river. That TikTok river. A lot of people drowned in that river. Yeah. Anything else you want to talk about? Should we wrap this up?

Yeah. We talked about every country thing you talk about. We basically did.

Listen, you're really fun to talk to. I really enjoyed it.

Thank you for having me on here. My pleasure. I really appreciate it. My pleasure.

And I love your music and I love your personality. So it was really cool to have you in here. Well, come see us on the road. I would love to. Are you ever in Austin soon?

I'm playing the San Antonio Rodeo next year.

When is that? What time? February. February. Okay, so in a couple of months? Yeah. Okay. We'll try to make it down for that. Are you ever in Austin, though?

I haven't played in Austin in a long time. Really? I don't know why. I'm here all the time, and I don't know. I need to get that on the books.

Okay. Well, I will come. I will definitely come. Well, thank you. Thank you. It's for having me. My pleasure. If anybody wants to go find you on the river.

On the river?

Social media, the river.

I'm on all your social media platforms. You're on all that stuff? Com. Okay.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Bye, everybody.