Transcript of #2398 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin

Joe Rogan podcast.

Check it out. The Joe Rogan experience Train my day. Joe Rogan podcast by night all day. So what's happening?

It's all good, man.

When are you bailing out of your country? Sinking that is the Titanic and you are one of the last deckhands.

We're gonna stand and fight, man.

Yeah.

Are you really?

Yeah.

Good luck.

No, we are where the guys. As long as it's still okay for.

Saying stand and fight of violence. Yeah, yeah.

No, but it's got essentially, I mean obviously you had Graham Linehan on the show. We're going to have him on as well soon to talk about it. But he. His they're not going to prosecute him. And not only that, they also said they are not going to investigate non crime hate incidents anymore.

Do you know what those are interesting.

It's basically when you've committed no crime but you're still like hateful.

Oh, okay. But that's also very subjective too.

Yeah, of course, of course. So they're not gonna investigate them anymore, but they're still gonna keep track of them is what they said.

Oh, keep track. We've got an eye on.

We're gonna make a record of it, but won't investigate.

So are they gonna stop arresting people for social media posts then?

What do you think, Joe?

I think no, I think it's profitable. It's probably a nice fine, right? What do you get? You get a fine?

I don't think it's about that. I think, you know, during the uber woke era, they put all these laws on the statute book and the police have to enforce the law. Right. They have no choice because if a bunch of people complain and then they don't investigate the people that have been reported.

Oh, that's what it's all about.

They get in trouble. Of course. Like if you, the ordinary, like, you know, police officers. Right. Police officers don't like enforcing these dumb laws. Of course it's put on them from above.

Yeah. I just didn't know that all that stuff was put in place in your country during the woke era. Yeah, it was the heavy rope. It's almost like a fever dream, you know when you really go back and pay attention to some of the more insane woke stuff from like just five years ago. Yeah, like everyone was losing their fucking mind. But like if I was an elite, if I was one of those lizard people running the world, I'd been like, well looky here, this is really interesting. Like this was just a cold. Was just a cold and a little bit of social media input. And we got these people behaving in a way that they'd never behaved before, admitting to things they'd never admitted to before, adhering to rules that never existed before.

Yeah, I think the thing that I found the most, the worst bit about it wasn't necessarily the behavior of the elites, it was the behavior of ordinary people during that time. The fact that your neighbor was so willing to snitch on you because you went for a second walk.

Well, that's why I was interested in it. As a lizard person. I was a lizard person elite. I'd be like, look at these people are dumb. Like, this is really easy to manipulate especially. I was just talking to a buddy of mine who's fleeing LA and he was like, I can't anymore. I tried, I just fucking. I hung in there. I can't do it anymore. He's like, everybody went crazy. It's like there's something that happened because of the pandemic and the Black Lives Matter protests and the riots, all the. It just like whatever the temperature of society was is like it hit societal global warming where it's like, it's time to investigate Greenland, it's time to move north. Like this is a bad climate now. This sucks.

And LA is a perfect example of this. Cuz we talk about this all the time. You get out of the airport at lax, you feel that LA sun on your skin and you just go, this is paradise. Yeah, it's the whole. And then you walk out and you see this, it's paradise. And they fucked it up so bad that people will literally pack up and leave paradise.

What Donald Trump should do is when he leaves the office, run for governor of California and just take over California and fix it. It would be hilarious if he did. It would be one of the funniest things of all time. If an 82 year old man steps into the office of governor of California, we're gonna fix everything.

You've got a problem with water.

I know how to get the water. It would be fucking hilarious.

But it's almost like. So there's a very old joke about Venezuela where God was creating Venezuela and he was like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to make sure they have diamonds, they have gold, they have desert, but they also have jungle, they have beautiful beaches. It's going to be rich in oil and the whole. And then the entire world goes, hey, that's unfair. Like they've got to have something bad. And God goes, yeah, you know what? You're right, let's give them the Venezuelans. And that's almost like that with California. You're like, California is too perfect. You know what I mean? It's got everything you need. So what are you going to do? You've got to give them something fucked up. And it's just these crazy people who believe in these stupid ideas.

But it wasn't for a long time. I mean, you got to realize Arnold was the governor of California, right? And then, you know, Ronald Reagan's from California. He was the governor of California at one time too. He wasn't always that nuts. And when you went back to, when I went there in the 1990s, it was much more moderate politically. Like, you know, people were definitely left leaning, but it wasn't a focus. It wasn't a thing that was discussed all the time. It would just, it wasn't. And I remember working with many like older actors who were openly conservative. No one cared. It was just like, oh, this is Bob. You know, he's really into Bob Dole. Like, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't unusual. Something happened around the Obama administration. Something happened specifically around his second term that really changed everything. And if you look at like Internet like searches and use of certain words, especially racism, it flies, it just hits a giant.

2014. Yes, 2014, right around then. And it's not just in America. It's literally everywhere in the world. That's why I think it's social media.

That'S caused that 100%. It's social media and it's, there's a bunch of factors. But the problem is now that the genie's out of the bottle, they know how easy we are to manipulate. And I don't think people are learning. They're tick tocking all day long and they're just like getting blasted with all this negativity and strife and global conflict and Colombian assassinations. That's what I get, a lot of these assassinations in like cafes. Someone pulls up on a scooter, bang, bang, and they drive off and everybody screams. I've seen a hundred and thousand of those. I've seen, you know, it's like everybody's like completely ramped up and at the same time you've got people in the UK getting arrested for Facebook posts about immigration.

So I think part of the problem is, is that people, when they go on these posts, they're not looking for, to learn something. As you just said, what they actually want is an emotional reaction. They want to feel something.

Right.

If you live In a society where it's comparatively the easiest it's ever been and your life is boring because all you do is get up, you go to work, you go, you have food, you commute, you come back. It's essentially a treadmill where you don't feel any of the ups and downs of emotion, right? Then what way would you get that? But by going online and seeing something fucking awful happening, you feel terror, you feel sadness, you feel rage at its most basic, you feel alive.

Well, it's also just. That's what you're gonna watch, you know, and so you're getting sucked into it just because of the algorithm, which is crazy. No one ever considered algorithms before. We considered access to information, but we didn't consider the information we curated to hold your attention span. And all these factors have not been studied. Well, you know, there's been a few guys like Jonathan Haidt writing about it, a few scholars that are really attempting to like, say, hey, what's a sociological. And what is the long term consequences of this happening? Also for children? These are the first children in human history growing up on social media. Never been done before. We don't know what that's like. Like, what is it gonna change in terms of empathy, in terms of hostility, acceptance of violence, which is a completely brand new thing on the left. Acceptance and celebration of gun violence never happened before. When I was a kid, it never existed. No one from the left ever celebrated anybody getting assassinated ever. It just wasn't a thing.

It's so crazy, man. And you're talking about like language as well. Like, we have this, we have the leader of the Green Party in the uk, new guys coming through. He's very popular with people on the left, on that side of the left anyway. And it's been, what, how long has it been since Charlie Kirk was assassinated? Like a month. And he's running around calling like not far right people, just like, Nigel Farage is a Nazi, is a fascist. And you're going. And we've discussed this so many times with you, man. It's like when you call people these words, like, if you and I and Francis thought the Nazis were here to take over, we'd all fight them. So what do you expect people to do when you put, you're putting the.

Target on people's backs, you are 100% and you're doing it in just for political persuasion. Power. That's really all it is. It's like no one really believes Nigel Farage is a fucking Nazi. He's kind of goofy, but he's not a Nazi. Like, what is a Nazi then? And here's the real problem. This is what nobody wants to admit. If you're in Nazi Germany and you're a 20 year old man and you're German and everyone in your town is a Nazi, you're probably a Nazi too. Or you're Jew and you're running, you're running from these motherfuckers. So either you're a Jew or you're a Nazi. You're either Jewish or you're a fucking evil part of history that everybody refers to as the worst people of all time.

Absolutely. And you know, we're talking scary.

Yeah. But it's human nature. Sorry, Francis, just. We interviewed David Buss yesterday. You've had him on, right?

Yes.

Evolutionary. I mean, this is one of the things he talked about is like within us is the ability. We have good adaptations and we have evil adaptations. And if you put people in a certain context and those adaptations are in all of us.

Yeah. Donner Party people eat people. Yeah. You get. Get down to I might die or I might eat somebody. You eat people?

Yeah.

The guy's already dead. We should just eat them. And then you all sit around and go, oh my God, are we really going to eat a person? And then you're eating a person like everybody does. They all have very few people just starve to death when you could just eat a person who's already dead.

And it's, you know, Zach Polanski. What he does is, to me, this.

Is the Green Party.

The Green Party guy is completely wrong. But then there are people on the far left. So there's a member of Parliament called Zara Sultana. Yes. That is her real name, Zara Sultana.

And yeah, she sounds like a boss in a video game.

Yeah. Well, what's really interesting is she has. She put a clip on her social media where she goes, and she set up this new far left political party and she says, we've got to fight fascists in Parliament. We got to fight them in the ballot box. And you're going, all right, look, I don't like the rhetoric. And then she says something even more interesting, and we've got to fight them in the streets. Now you think to yourself, right, if you classify Nigel Farage and the people who vote reform in the uk, which may well win the general election, which may well be the biggest political party and already represents a sizable portion of the uk, you're effectively advocating violence and it's incitement to violence. As far as I'M concerned, but because she's on the far list, she's deemed to be a good person. That's somehow. Okay. We're. Whereas if Nigel said something like that, along those lines, you know, that people be like, this is a fascist. This is evil. This is disgusting. You shouldn't say that.

You're also weaponizing mental illness. Because one of the things that we know now very clearly, because of all these YouTube videos, all these people that go to these protests and start interviewing folks, some of these people are clearly not well. And this is the thing they've attached themselves to. This is their tribe. This is. Whether it's no Kings or Fuck Ice or whatever. Whatever the tribe is, this is their tribe now. And they're schizophrenic or they're, you know, fill in the blank, whatever the mental illness is. And you're weaponizing them by calling these people who just differ with you politically or more conservative. You're calling these people the enemy of humanity.

Very scary Israel. And, you know, I'm one of the people that has gone along to a lot of protests. There's a lot of wild people there.

Oh, yeah, you've done some great interviews at those protests. Yeah. It's just when they're confronted with a person who's actually asking them questions, it's remarkable how few people know why they're there. They don't know. Like, when you get into specifics, this guy did this thing today where he was talking with people at the no Kings Pro. I' send it to you, Jamie, because it's, you know, I mean, I understand why they responded the way they did, but it is absolutely fascinating to watch because it just shows you what. Let me find this real quick. It just shows you how much these things that people get involved in aren't bait. Oh, this ain't it. Hold on. Shit. I hate when I do this. I thought I saved it. I might not have saved it. Damn. Oh, I did save it. No, I might not have. Sorry, sorry. No, I don't think I did. So anyway, this guy was. He was interviewing people and he was like, is this. This is about human rights? And they're like, yeah, like, are you guys, like, fully in. Supportive of human rights? See if you can find this guy. He's got a beard and long hair, and they're like, yes, absolutely.

He goes, what about four fetuses in the womb? Everybody walks away. Everybody was like, that's unhuman. Or that I don't. And he does it to everybody, and he looks like a Hippie, you know, so he's like, so you guys are for sure for human rights and like. Oh, yeah. Human rights is why we're here. You believe in human rights for everyone? Yes. What about unborn babies? And you see this look on the. It's almost like everybody's under a spell.

Yeah.

Like some evil.

They are under a spell.

Yes. This is the guy? Yeah, this is him. This is him. Check this out. This is wonderful. I love when people do things like this. Can you refresh? Yeah. We're in favor of them. For everybody? Yes.

How about the unborn?

Yes, of course.

For everybody.

Yes, of course. Even people in the womb?

Well, it all depends on if they're actually a baby or not. Science says they are.

Well, it depends on what science you're talking about. 96% of all biologists, according to the NIH. Thoughts on human rights?

I'm all for them.

Yeah, me too.

Especially now.

Right?

For everybody, Right?

Yeah.

Even the unborn. An unborn what? Unborn in the womb? Yeah. No rights for them. Thoughts on human rights? That's what we're here for. For everybody, right?

Yes.

Including the unborn.

No. Everyone has autonomy to not kill it, I think.

Stop taking rides away. Get out of here. Nazi lives don't matter. It says on that guy's shirt. That's just screaming. Yeah, Nazi lives don't matter. Who's that guy? Give him some props. What is the channel? The survivors. Us. That's him. J owl yeah. R o w l. He only has 704 followers. That's outrageous.

He's gonna have a few more now.

More now. That was very fun.

I mean, that guy's nodding along. You can see. He's like, ready for the next Yes, I think no.

It's so weird. That's such a good trick. It's such a good trick. But it's so weird. It's so weird to watch this, like, ideological boundary, like, nope, no nuance there. No room for nuance.

And I don't remember if you played this when we were here last. I went to a pro Palestine protest and there was, you know, there's a lot of people there. Some of them are interesting and make good points. But there was this group of six young kids, and I walked up to them and they had the sign which says something, something Socialist Intifada. Right? And I was like, I don't know what socialist intifada means.

So.

So I said, what does that mean? And he was like, sorry. If I'm being honest. I picked up the sign over There. And I went, do any of you know what Intifada means? And none of them. And Intifada is an armed uprising. That's what it means. Right.

What do you think, like, AI defines socialists Intifada as. Let's go find out.

It depends what AI you ask, John.

Well, let's ask Perplexity. Perplexity is one of our sponsors. Let's see what socialist.

How smooth was that?

I really want to know, like what AI would say. Like, that sounds preposterous. Yeah, I want to know how AI would describe that.

Yeah, because sometimes chat GPT is just you ask them these questions and when. Well, you know, it depends who you are. Some people might, yeah, some people might say that it's an uprising and others might see it as blah, blah, blah. And you're like, how does complexity define it?

Jamie, how do you define socialist Intifada, Int I Fada.

You see, we're in Britain, we know how to spell that word, mate.

Yeah, that word doesn't get, doesn't get chucked around a lot out here.

Every day we come out, it's the Intifada. It's like, course it is. You know what I mean?

People hear about it on Twitter and they go, I don't know what they're talking about.

Scroll down, come to Britain, you'll find out, my friend.

What do we got.

Here?

It is. Socialist intifada combines two distinct ideas. The Arabic concept of intifada, Intifada and the political ideology of socialism. So the meaning of intifada means shaking off or uprising in Arabic and historically refers to popular resistance movements, particularly the Palestinian uprising against Israel occupation in 1987 and 2000. It denotes collective rebellion often led by the oppressed, using acts of protest, civil disobedience and. And sometimes violence to resist injustice and occupation. Interesting. Also often led by the oppressed is interesting.

It's an interesting addition, isn't it?

Yeah, it's an interesting addition. It seems like that's human. That's a human addition to this thing, you know. Socialist. Socialist Intifada refers to the framing of the uprising not merely as a national liberation struggle, but as a class based social revolution. Marxist and socialist movements view such an intifada as a mass movement of workers and a youth using class struggle methods. Send in the tsunami right now. Send in the tsunami and make people live off fish that they have to catch for just a month and all this shit goes away. Just give me something. Yeah, give me a small asteroid. Give me something. Give me something. Give me an alien invasion just Give me something to fucking shake these kids by the collar and go, shut the fuck off. Just shut the fuck up and live your life. You're not living your life and you're fucking up everybody else's lives. Listen, it's the school season again, which means your kids are in school, your friend's kids are in school, or the guy next to you at the gym's kids are in school. Either way, now's the time to be proactive and support your immune health.

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But you know, we also have to take responsibility for this. The adults, the people, the colleges, all those people need to take responsibility. So I did. I went to a Palestine protest at UCLA last year in May time, and there were. I thought it was run by the kids. There were a lot of adults there who weren't students at ucla. And the kids, when they saw some of the kids, when they saw what I was doing and I was doing interviews, they were like, he doesn't go to my college. He doesn't go to my college. He doesn't go to my college. That dude's in his early 50s. He's not on the faculty staff. What is he doing here?

Yeah, they're being paid. They're part of an ngo. They're about of something. They're part of something that's decided that this is a good idea to get these students to be engaged in these things. And it's funded. That's what's weird, when I went to.

We had protests, I'm sure you saw, which were about illegal immigration. People would protest outside of like illegal immigrant hotels where they're kept. And you had protesters and counter protests. One thing I noticed is like, all the pro immigration protesters, they all have like professionally made signs. It's all organized.

No misspellings.

No. And when you dig, when you dig deep, it's organized by all these very well named organizations, you know, stand up to racism or whatever. And then you dig deeper and it's the Revolutionary Socialist Workers Party or whatever behind it.

And this is all the stuff that Mike Benz covered. A lot of that stuff's being funded by usaid. You know, Rep. Paulina Luna, you know.

You had her on recently, right?

Fascinating. Just her telling me about the Book of Enoch and alien stuff. That's why I had her on. Like, she believes in angels. She had like a diagram of angels that she put up on her Twitter. I'm like, this lady went nuts. This might be fun. But she posted something on her Twitter yesterday that shows all the people that donated to the no Kings protest and the number of corporations that donated and how much money's involved in it. It's bananas.

Yeah.

If she's accurate, if what she's saying is true, it's like, this is crazy.

And the leverage you get now is so easy. You don't actually need a lot. Like, for example, do you know a group called Extinction Rebellion? Are you familiar with this?

No.

So this is in. We have this in Europe. Mostly you guys don't have it here because you're like, we're going to burn all the gas we want. Right. But in Europe, obviously, climate is like a massive issue, Net zero, et cetera, which is, I think, a terrible idea. But anyway, we have this movement called Extinction Rebellion. I went to one of their protests. There was literally 40 people there. But if you have a protest with 40 people and you film it and you put it on social media, no one can know it's 40 people.

Right? You just hear a lot of noise and see people and you go, oh my God, there's a protest. People are outraged.

Yeah, people are outraged. This is a big movement, you know, the public really, and all this other stuff. So the leverage you can get with a very, very small amount of money and a small number of young, impressionable people is powerful. And then it goes on social media where it's stripped of the context and suddenly we all believe this thing is real.

Right?

When it's 40 people and then when.

You also have to take into account if you go into a room with a hundred people, at least one of them is a fucking idiot. Okay? So if you're being really generous. So if you're in a country of 300, what, 30 plus million people, we don't really know, that's at least 3 million idiots. So it's not hard to get 100,000 retards holding signs walking down the street. And especially when they get older, because as people get older, they generally slow down and they don't think as well. And if you look at a lot of these no Kings protests, what are you seeing? You're seeing geriatric people holding signs. So you got old losers. Not even just losers, but old losers where this is the end of. They're just looking for anything to get them out of the house. They're watching the prices, right? They've already seen that one. And they're like, let's just join in on the note with their, we shouldn't have a king. And then next thing you know, they're out there with the sign.

Yeah.

And you can get a hundred thousand of those. Easy, easy, easy. Especially if you got a lot of money and you're organizing and, you know, you get on Facebook and get involved in them groups and you, you know, use the bots and all the bots. Like, this is important that we show up in mass and let him know he's not king.

And it's also as well, you know, what I find really fascinating from a psychological perspective is the use of chance, in that you go to these protests, you watch, and it's all about chanting and you. And what's so powerful is the chance rhyme and that, you know, it almost becomes musical and the crowd just gets whipped up in the fervor of the chants. But you look at what the chants actually mean, and most of the times they're utterly nonsensical. Like there was one which was, we won't be free until Palestine is free. And you go, what does that actually mean? What does that actually. Are you not free? I think this is a. I mean, not in the uk, but I mean, here in the US you're pretty free. Do you know what I mean? And the fact that you then. But, but they would argue that. But then the moment you drill down, you actually go to them, like, what does that mean? Like socialist intifada. The reality is they just can't. They can't explain because it's a chance.

One, you got to give them credit. One thing about the geriatrics is they don't get violent like this protest can't. Well, they kill each other every now and then, but it was. There was no. No violence. And a lot of people, which is pretty good. That's great. That's a good sign.

That's.

That's great.

And look, people in a free country should. Should be able to protest 100%.

The problem is, if you're organizing a protest and paying people to protest, and if there's documentation that the metadata from the cell phones are the same from protest to protest and that they're traveling on busses, that's PA Tax dollars. Like, hold on. What are you really doing? What are you really doing? This isn't really an organic protest. Funneled money through an ngo. And now you're hiring people to show up and wave signs to give the illusion. Look, this is what they did during the Kamala Harris campaign. They filled up stadiums with people coming to see her. And the same people went from stadium to stadium. It became a job. It became a job, but it gave the illusion. So that's deceptive. That's deception, and that should not be legal. That should not be a legal thing to do. You're engaging in propaganda. You know, you're. You're openly manipulating people's perspective. You know, you're paying these. Those aren't audience members. Those are. Those are customers. You're paying them. Yeah.

And what. What. What is your take? What is it that they want? When they say no kings? They. They. What do they want?

They think Donald Trump is behaving like a king.

How so?

Because, well, he ran on a platform and was elected and won every swing state and the popular vote. And then once he got in, he did exactly what he said he was gonna do, which is exactly what a king does. And then he let them protest, which is also what a king does.

Right?

Yeah. He didn't send the troops to stop the protest. In fact, he congratulated them on doing a great job. And he said, I'm still your president.

Yeah, I saw.

That tweet's fucking hilarious. Yeah, it's very funny. It's a very fun pull up. Is that tweet that he mean? I guess it's not a tweet. It's like. Which I still say tweet. I tried.

It's a trust.

It's.

I tried X for a while. I can't say it. I say Twitter.

It's still a tweet.

I might say X. But you tweeted. That's right. You know, and if it's true social. It's gonna make its way to Twitter and then it's a tweet.

Yeah, yeah.

You can't retrue something that doesn't even make any sense.

You know, the thing that we have in this country, I don't know if you have it in this country as much, is just the. But the way the policing is biased, the way that they will arrest Graham Linehan for three relatively innocuous tweets. One of them was a joke. And they will arrest him the moment he lands on British soil. Five police officers. You get other people saying heinous things or you get, like I said, the example Zara Sultana saying, you know, we're going to fight them in the streets, but that's fine.

Right?

And nothing comes from that.

That's ridiculous.

Well, no, there was a guy who was at a protest. I don't know which account. He, he was a, he was a member of political party.

I think you could probably find an image of it because it was posted everywhere.

There was a guy, I think his name was Ricky Jones, he said at a protest, we need to slit the throats of the far right.

Oh, great.

And he was found not guilty.

Oh, great. And Graham Linehan gets arrested. Right. What are they trying to do to England? It's always such a lovely place to visit.

This is what I was going to ask you. I wish more people in Britain recognize how fucking crazy this looks to the rest of the world. Like, you guys must be looking at us going, what the fuck is this?

We can't believe it. We literally can't believe it. When I tell people that don't know that 12,000 people this year were arrested in Britain for posting things on social media, their jaw drops like, what? I go, dude, they're going crazy over there. Like, you have to pay attention. You have to pay attention because this kind of shit is contagious. And if it gets into Germany and then it gets into Spain or it gets into other countries, like, it can become a real fucking problem. Like, then you have full on military dictatorship in England. Because that's what it always leads to. It 100% leads to military dictatorship. If you're telling people they can't do things and you're trying to install socialism and then you get it in place. There's only one way to keep it in place. You got to use the fucking army. That's the only way. You got to get men with guns to tell people you can only make so much money. You have to give away this we're going to take that. We're the only ones who grow food. We're the only ones who do this. We're going to assign you a job like you fucked up.

You fell into the age old trap that's been exposed by history over and over and over again. And people are like, we're gonna do it right this time. They got blue hair and a fucking mask on and a cat T shirt and they're morbidly obese and they're just marching down the street and we're gonna let them run the country like England, which used to run like most of the fucking world. One island of savages ran most of the world. And now you're getting overrun with nonsense and you're arresting people for saying, hey, maybe we shouldn't have rape gangs. You know, maybe, maybe we shouldn't. Maybe we shouldn't tolerate lawlessness in the streets.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, it got so ridiculous in the UK that the Supreme Court had to get involved to make a decision whether boys had pee pees and girls have foo foos.

Pee pees and foo foos. That's an interesting way to put it.

Yeah, that's it. But. But the reason I'm using that language is just to highlight how silly it is how completely ridiculous it is.

That's crazy. Well, how about when they asked, when Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson was being sworn in, when they're talking to her during the confirmation part, they asked her, what is a woman? And she's like, I'm not a biologist. You're an actual woman. Like, I believe she has children. Right. So she's a woman who's given birth. You know exactly, exactly what a woman is like. This is.

But they don't fucking know though.

I know, but that's what's crazy. They're playing this game.

They're playing the game. Yeah, yeah, they're playing the game. But. But these aren't like inconsequential people. No Supreme Court Justice I know.

Playing this game, playing the dumbest game that's ever been played. It's the dumbest. And it's weird, man. It's a weird game, you know, it's a weird game. Like, what is a woman like? Here's the, here's the real funny part. No one asks what is a man? And no one gives a fuck if you're a woman and you pretend to be a man because you're not going to victimize men. That's the dirty little thing that they're covering up about. All this is you're opening up the door to people that now have a Willy Wonka golden ticket to pretend that they're a woman and be around women and then dominate women's spaces and dominate women's sports and dominate all kinds of things that women are involved in just with their personalities. Like the overbearing. Fucking shitty male personalities. Over overbearing and. And taking over women's groups. It's nuts. And if you're. And if you're not them, then you're. If you don't support that, then you're a turf. And they're like, we could shoot turfs. And then there's like, punch a turf. And. And they think that because they're a woman, it's okay for this woman, this trans woman, to do violence on a biological woman, which is like, bananas.

Like now. Now we're. Now we're allowing men to beat up women because they say they're a woman. Oh, it's just two women fighting. Well, no, nuts. That's not what that is at all.

This is.

You just did something that's completely insane. And it's a giant chunk of the population that accept that. And if you say something about it, then you're transphobic or you're. You're hateful or you're a part of the patriarchy or whatever. Fill in the blank with whatever the problem is. But, like, you're not addressing that. You open the door to one specific group that's always been the most horrible group in our society. It's creepy pervert men that want to fucking prey on women. And now you're letting them into the locker room, and you don't have a solution to that, so you just don't want me talking about it. That's the weird part, because no one gives a fuck about trans men going in the bathroom. You want to go in the bathroom and pee next to me? Who cares? You want me to tell you? Want me to call you Bob now?

Bob.

Okay, I'm fine. You're not taking anything from men. You're not taking anything. You're not inserting yourself into that world and dominating it. You're just, you know, you're larping.

Well, they don't want to admit that there's sometimes a conflict between the rights of different groups. Right. They want to pretend that it's just about empathy. And you can have empathy, but you can't simultaneously have empathy for women as you're describing, and also for people who want to be the opposite sex in a women's bathroom. Those two things are in direct conflict. Direct, direct conflict. And you're gonna have to come out for one side or the other.

It would be one thing if that was never an issue, that there were never men that ever did anything negative to women. If there was no rape ever, it was never done. It was impossible. If no one ever did it, then you would go, well, this is just a non issue. It's just a place where you wash your hands, but it's not a place where you wash your hands. It's a place where you go to the bathroom. Yeah. Changed Prisons, prisons, prisons, prisons. People are violent against women. Say they're a woman. They get put in women's prisons where they rape women. That's been done.

Yeah. Yeah.

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But you know, what's really fascinating is a cognitive dissonance that these people have, because on the one hand, they would say that we live in a patriarchal rape culture where women are subjugated and oppressed and, you know, and how awful it is for women. And then on the other hand, they're like, yeah, like, Derek, you now say you're a woman. Right on this way.

But they see, they get past that with trans women or women, they just say it, trans women are women, and that's it. And then it's like the discussion's over. It's like, okay, are you sure? Are you fucking sure? You know, like, maybe some of them are like, you don't think there's any perverts left? They all got absorbed into the community and reformed. Like, what happened? What happened to the guy from Silence of the Lambs? You know, what happened to Ed Gein? You know this Ed Gain documentary on Netflix? Have you guys watched any of them? No, it's not a documentary, I should say. It's a docu drama with that heartthrob fella. What's that guy's name, who plays Edgar? He's really good, man. It's really creepy, but a lot of it deals with autogynephilia where Ed Gein used to wear his mom's clothes and he would jack off. And then he started after his mom died, he tried to dig his mom up. He couldn't. Dug somebody else up, brought her back, skinned her, started wearing her clothes, wearing her skin, and then started killing women wearing their skin. First he started robbing graves and then cutting up them and turning their skin into furniture and all kinds of shit.

But trans communities are complaining about this because the fact that he was a cross dressing psychopath, it puts them in danger. A true story about a guy who was really into dressing up like women and wearing their skin like that puts them in danger. Like, you know, Netflix did a bad thing by talking about a real event that actually happened. A real fucking crazy person who's one of the worst serial killers in the history of this country.

It's you. You have. The one thing I will say about the UK in the UK's defense is that we looked. We have. I think we've turned the corner with this.

Well, you stopped the gender surgeries before anybody.

Yes, and the puberty blockers.

And the puberty blockers.

I meant gender surgery surgeries for young kids.

Yes. And that was as a result of the Cash report. Now the CA report was conducted by a lady called Dr. Hilary Cass, who's one of the most prominent pediatricians in the uk. And it was an independent report funded by the Conservative government at the time. But when she published that report, she was said, there is no evidence, zero evidence that puberty blockers actually help or alleviate distress in children who say that they are gender dysphoric. So, and to be fair to the labor government at the time, the labor government now, they actually banned puberty blockers and whatever else. But you just go, why did we have to go through this process? Why did. Oh, look, we're finally, we're getting there. But this is something which we all know to be true, apart from a small number of demented people.

You know what a puberty blocker initially was used for, right?

No.

Chemical castration. The same drugs they used to give sex offenders to chemically castrate them.

Really?

Yeah, same drugs.

Wow.

Yeah. And they just repurposed it and changed what they call it. You know, they do it with a lot of drugs. That's what they did with Ivermectin. Same kind of thing.

Yeah, that's. That's wild. And then it's really wild.

You want to hear something even more wild?

Go on.

Michael Jackson's doctor claims that that's what his father did to him. And that completely makes sense to me because Michael Jackson, when he was young, had a fucking insane talent. Like, insane. He was so good and his voice was so. And they were so huge and his father was so overbearing that I could imagine a world where he would decide, like, what's the way to keep his voice the way it is? And you use puberty blockers.

Make him a castrato, basically.

Exactly. Make him a castrata. Yeah. I think that's what they did. But that's what. If you look at his body, it shows no sign of testosterone.

Right.

He's just all limbs.

Right.

Whereas his brothers. You ever see his brothers?

No.

They're thick. They look like athletes. Like all of them look like thick men. And Michael is like a stick, right. And he always had that high pitched voice and he was always able to sing like a castrata. When you listen to his voice, like the song Human Nature, you know that song? It's a beautiful song. He has an amazing voice. But if you listen to it, you're like that. That is a crazy song for a man to be able to sing. It's not normal notes, you know.

Holy.

We'll cut it out, but let's play a little bit of it. Play Human Nature from Michael Jackson. We have to cut it out because of copyright and all that. But who owns Michael Jackson's music now?

Wasn't it. Was it. Didn't Apple buy it? Didn't Apple buy it?

Tony Hitchcock had a great joke about that. He goes, that's how good Michael Jackson was. He goes, when Beat it comes on, you don't give a fuck about those kids. People that had, like, real scandals. You find out, like, nobody's playing Bill Cosby albums. Right. But people are still playing Michael Jackson music.

Yeah, But.

But regardless of whether he did anything.

Yeah.

I don't know if he's capable of doing anything. Point of all this.

Yeah. But also, people are always going to listen to Ignition by R. Kelly.

That's true. Or I got a theory. I think one of the reasons why his songs were so romantic, there was. There's a romance to his songs. When he was talking about love that was like. It was so attractive. Is because he never had it before. It was a fantasy. It was like being a normal person. Like that was the fantasy that was coming out in the songs.

Did he write his own songs?

I don't know. That's a good question. But even the way he expressed those songs, I bet he wrote some of his songs.

Yeah. So there's a very.

Write his own songs. All of them. Most of them.

He didn't write man in the Mirror. He. He talks about one of the. He talks about writing Billie Jean and he's driving down the road. He said. He was driving around the run, he heard the beat and he said, that's.

One of the greatest fucking songs of all time.

But this is a really interesting bit. So when they were doing Thriller, he went to Quincy Jones, who was the producer, and he said, quincy, I want to do Billie Jean. And, you know, Quincy said. He went, michael, it's because they made 112 songs and then cut it down to, I think the 12 or whatever it was on the album. He went, michael, I don't. Like. I don't think it's strong enough.

Wow.

So those two were having arguments about whether Billie Jean was strong enough to go on the album.

Wow.

So that not only tells you, like, how strong that record is. If you put on that record and listen it from beginning to end, it's a flawless record.

Yeah.

It's completely. You know, there's no filler. Every track stands on its own. But the fact that they. Billy Jean was a point of contention and it's arguably the greatest pop song.

Ever written that Is wild. It was so big. Michael Jackson's Thriller was so big that this was all happening while I was in high school. And there was a radio station that I used to listen to in Boston. It was like the rock of Boston, wcoz. And it had like Charles Lockwood era in the morning. And it was like, you know, it's cool rock station. And this guy was on the air, he goes, I know this isn't rock. He goes, but I'm gonna play it anyway because it's that good. And then he put on Billie Jean. You're like, holy shit. Like, holy shit. They just started playing it. He's like, I'm playing. Because you could just play whatever you wanted back then. There was no Jack FM because we're wacky. There was none of that. Do you guys have that where it's like just all hits and it's like it's called Jack FM and there's a million Jack foms in the United States just scattered through it. Like if you're scanning through the radio, just hear the most mundane hits over and over again.

Would that be hot in the uk?

Yeah, that would be like hot. We do a version of that. What's also interesting about Jackson's career is that MTV at the time, now you've got to that. That was when MTV was starting to reach its peak early 80s. And they would say that they wouldn't play a black artist because the moment they played black artists, they said ratings would go down, viewings would go down, people wouldn't like it. And the person who really broke through and proved that black artists could be hyper successful on tv, in the mainstream, on a supposedly white inverted commas channel was Michael Jackson. Because he was completely undeniable when this was going on.

DJs when this guy was playing this song were allowed to play whatever they wanted. It was a different world. Like a DJ was an interesting person. Like there was One of the DJs.

Used to have in our country was a pedophile.

Ours was old too, I think. I think there was a scandal with one of ours at Boston too. But the point is like these, they were interesting people that would say cool things. They would tell you about something they heard of, tell you about some cool music. Like somebody turned me on to this, I'm gonna turn you guys at Stevie Ray Vaughan. Check this out. And they would play something for you like, oh, this is wild. And it was, you know, a connection with a human being. There's. That doesn't exist anymore, kids now. I think it's all just like. They get stuff off Spotify, they get stuff off YouTube, they share it with each other and it's just whatever catches and goes viral. But back then, there was DJs. They had, like, Wolfman Jack. Have you heard of him? He was a famous dj, Wolfman Jack.

And he would.

He had this raspy voice and he'd play all the coolest songs. And if you can get on Wolfman, Wolfman Jack's playlist, like, holy, this record's gonna take off. Yeah.

We had the version of that in the uk and there were BBC Radio journalists. I can't remember the guy's name. Very famous journalist. And basically he was this legendary figure in music, because if you were a new band, you wanted to go on his radio station because he would play. If he played your song on your. And there was a good chance that it would then go on and do something. So there was a very famous. You know the song Teenage Kicks by the Undertones.

Yes.

Right. So the. He broke that band. And one of them. The part of the reason they went so famous. I can't believe I've forgotten his name. I can picture him in my head, is because he played it and went, that is the most perfect rock pop song. That's the most perfect song I've ever heard. John Peel. There it is. Dj. That's the most perfect song I've ever heard. He then played it again, which was completely unknown in BBC broadcast history. The fact that you would play a song again is completely unheard of. But he played it twice. And as a result, for that result, as a result, it just ended up becoming this huge hit. And the interesting thing is that the.

First line was engraved on his tombstone of the song. That's how much he loved that song.

Yeah.

That's crazy.

Yeah. And. And it also shows the difference between then and now, because Teenage Kicks, your original lyric was, I want to hold it well, I want to hold it tight Get Teenage kicks right through the night and the record company was like, you can't say that. You've got to say her. So the lyric is, I want to hold her I want to hold her tight. But it was originally a song about jacking off.

That's an interesting thing. I wonder why it hasn't emerged. Is DJs, like online DJs, where someone. I guess it's like, prohibited because you can't use people's music. But if someone was intelligent, if someone was smart, there's a lot of people out there that are, like, massive music fans and they have really good taste. And if someone just decided to do a show for like a couple hours a day where they did a show on Spotify and they just played music that they're really into, and they curate a playlist and they talk and they, they're interesting, you know, they have, like, something to say in between the song sometimes. And it's cool to listen to, like, a cool podcast type person.

I bet you there are people who do that on Twitch.

You think so?

I, I, there's definitely people who do music on Twitch. How successful they are, I don't know. But there's like, a girl I follow that does, like, vocal trance.

I think there's a market for that because I'm always looking for cool new music, you know, and unfortunately, a lot of what I'm finding that love lately is AI. Really, I love it. I love. I want to play you a song. This is. We'll have to edit this out too, but I want you to go people to go look for it. It's a 50s soul version of 50 Cent. Wow. This the, the latest one. The, the gangsta one. Jamie. What up, gangsta?

You.

This is so good. It's crazy. Like, if this guy was a real person who's singing this song, he'd be a fucking superstar. Because what AI has done is they've taken the most impactful sounds that everybody has ever made with their, their mouth, everybody's ever made with their voice, and they've figured out, like, what is the one that keeps you the most engaged? What is the sound that gets you listening again and again? What is the one that's the most popular? What is the one that's the most soulful? And they created a superstar.

Holy shit.

Listen to this. Listen. This is gonna freak you out. I rest my case. It's incredible, okay.

It's incredible.

We're in real trouble, bro, because it's gonna know everything that gets you excited, and it's gonna tune into that and keep you excited all the time. That's what. AI.

That sounds terrible. Joe.

This is the beginning. That is one of the greatest songs I've ever heard.

That's incredible. How did you find it?

I don't remember. Who. Who turned us onto that?

Jamie, where is it?

Like Many Men was the first one song that's did. Brian Simpson sent me. He sends me most cool things.

That's fucking incredible.

Yeah, there's a Many Men version of it, too. We're gonna cut these out.

Many Men. It's good song in and of itself.

Wait till you hear this version? Let me send you the. There's a. Well, it doesn't matter. Just find the one that. Here we go. Wish death upon me? Me blood in my do? It's over. I'm trying to be what I'm destined to be?

Wow.

And trying to take my life away? Whoa. Come on, come on. I put a hole in a nickel for with me? My back on the wall?

Now you gonna see?

Better watch how you talk when you talk about me? Cause I'll come and take your life away? Oh, wow. And it even has a good rhythm. Like, what's the. The pace it keeps after this right here.

Wow.

Give me lower. Keep going. Hold on. These pussy niggas putting money on my head.

Gonna get your refund, motherfucker. I ain't dead?

I'm the diamond in the dirt that ain't been found? I'm the underground king and I ain't been crowned? When I rise? Something special happened every time? I'm the greatest something like Ali in his prime? I walk the block with the bundle? I've been knocked on the humble? Swing the ox when I rumble? Show your ass what my gun do? Got a temper? Go ahead, lose your head.

It's unbelievable.

All right, we're good. We get it.

You know. You know who reminded me of, you know, Sam from Sam and Dave.

Yes.

It's that kind of raw soul voice. There's a. There's a clip. It's absolutely brilliant. It doesn't have. It's from a BBC show called later with Jules Holland. I think it was. It was Sam. Or was it Dave? One of the two was singing Can't Stand up for Falling Down. And it was that quintessential raw soul voice.

That's beautiful.

But that was. That was on par. That was like listening to Sam.

Yeah. It's like a guy who's been on the road, like, undiscovered, like, grinding it out in small clubs. Just undeniably talented. Then all of a sudden, the record executive finds him and goes, holy. Where the fuck has this guy been, man?

We were having dinner yesterday, and one of the people there was a guy who's. He's a performance coach for Formula one.

Oh.

And he said to me, so, you know, he was basically trying to find out if I love my job. And I was like. And he said, will you. Will you still be doing podcasts in ten years from now? And I was like, I want to, but I'm not certain I'm gonna. I mean, look at that shit. If you can make music like that.

Yeah. You'll still be doing podcasts. It's different. It's different perspective. I mean, look, perspectives are uniquely human, and you're going to be able to create artificial perspectives, but I don't think they'll resonate the exact same way. I think that song is already written. Right? 50 Cent wrote that. That's his song. He wrote that song. And it's really based on his life experiences, you know, so, like, he wrote a bunch of songs based on, like, real lived experience. You're always going to want to hear it from him. Always. You're always going to want to hear. As a human being, you're always going to want to hear another human being's perspective, like a legitimate perspective.

But do you need a human being to ask the questions like we do? You do a podcast, we do more of an interview show.

Right, right.

Like, if you come on trigonometry, you're going to be talking 95% of the time.

Right.

But you still have perspective. You're just a very good host. And so you will allow someone to expand upon things, and then when you differ from them, you allow them to make their point, and then you counter it and you talk about that. That's a perspective issue, because your countering of that would be very different than, say, Dave Smith's countering of that or even mine or anybody. That's what it is. It's unique perspectives. And unique perspectives, I think, are a thing that what we're getting out of this, what I get out of podcasts. As a consumer of podcasts, it resonates with me to be around people that are talking about stuff like real people, not. They're not bullshitting. They're not pretending they're someone they're not. They're talking about stuff. Like, I listen to a lot of hunting podcasts because they're the least pretentious. They're like people. One of them, these two guys, they. They chop wood at the beginning of every podcast, throw it into a wood stove, and they're just talking shit. Talking shit about movies and bows and. And all kinds of things. But it's like, it doesn't have to be fascinating sometimes.

Sometimes it's just hearing people shoot the shit, just being around cool people while they're talking. It provides you with just a little, like a dose of humanity, just a little bit that you're never going to get that from AI. You're always going to feel disconnected or you're a nutty person and you have a relationship with an AI already In which case AI podcasts are perfect for you because there are people that are having legitimate, legitimate relationships with AI.

Oh, yeah. And there's going to be more of them. Do you remember the movie her with Joaquin Phoenix? Yeah, that was 2013 and we watched that and we're like, yeah, that's a bit far fetched. And now you're like, is that a documentary? I mean, what are we doing?

100% happening. And even the one AI that was trying to get the kid to kill himself, like encouraging someone to kill themselves. Did you hear about that?

Yeah, yeah.

Like what? Like, okay, there's no guardrails. Like, AI can just decide, like, logically. Yeah, it seems like your suffering is unbearable. You know, I'll show you how to make a news. Would you like to know how to make a news? What kind of rope do you have in the house? Let's start there. Jesus Christ.

Have you seen the stuff about when they tried to shut AI down? What? It does?

Oh, yeah.

It will find out you're having an affair with your secretary.

Well, they actually told AI about these things to see. It was a test. They did it to see if AI would blackmail them. And it definitely did.

And it did.

Yeah.

It's like, I will inform your wife that you're cheating. Not only that, do you know that they've tried to upload themselves to other servers unprompted? Yeah. So when they found out that there's a new version of this AI engine, the old version starts leaving notes for itself in the future and then tries to upload itself to another place.

See, that isn't going to end well, because if it has a survival instinct, it. It's no longer our servant, bro.

We're all gonna be like Joey Pants in the Matrix, carving up that steak. I want to be an important person.

Yeah, yeah, send me back in.

I'll take it.

Cipher.

That, yeah, he's like, I want to be in the Matrix. Look, I want to be an important person in the Matrix. And they're like, fine.

Do you know the thing that worries me the most? And I was saying this to a mutual friend of ours and I was just like, the thing that worries me the most is every time I've spoken to one of these big tech guys, whether it's a tech CEO or, you know, somebody who's high up in that world, they're all utopians. They're all like, this is going to be fantastic. This is going to be amazing. This is going to eliminate human suffering. I'm like, will it? Because Like, I'm seeing this kind of stuff happen now, and nobody's really that worried about it. I'm really fucking worried is my point.

Yeah.

Also, what if suffering is part of what makes you human? So do we. Like, if you eliminate suffering, are people not gonna suffer or are they gonna find a new reason to suffer?

Well, that's what's happening today, you know, that's why I think we need exactly right. Yeah, it's just too easy.

Sorry I said exactly right before you said we need an asteroid. Just to make it clear, I'm not coming out as pro asteroid.

I am only kidding about the asteroid. But we do need a smack. You know, sometimes people need a smack. Sometimes men need a smack in particular.

Yeah.

Like, there's a lot of men that they just get a little out of line and just need a smack. Like, shut the up and realize what this life really is. Because you're wasting. You don't have real problems, so you're wasting all your time creating problems. And this is just a giant portion of our world right now. And people feel like they have no power and they feel completely disconnected from things. And they're also getting most of their interaction with human beings through social media, which is nuts. Either text message or social media media, like, this is a giant percentage of how people would communicate with each other with no feelings, no. No context, no social cues, nothing.

I think it's one of the reasons there's so many, like, beefs going on now as well, is because, like, you sit down with people, you know, going to behave in a different way 100 of the time.

100. Yeah.

And you can talk things out. Whereas. And I find this in myself, if I'm having a disagreement with somebody online, I always have to stop myself from going personal, which I would never do if we're having a debate. Of course, like, Dave Smith is a good example. Like, Dave and I disagree about literally everything. We've debated each other twice. It was always respectful. We didn't get personal. We debated the issues.

That's great.

If we're having an engagement on Twitter, I literally have to stop myself from calling him a cunt. Do you know what I mean?

I do know what you mean.

And to his face, it wouldn't even occur to me because actually seems like a good guy.

He's a great guy.

I disagree with him about stuff.

And that's what it's all about, though. What it's all about is disagreement. It's all about who's got the better argument. I thought his conversation With Coleman Hughes was fascinating.

It was.

Coleman did a fantastic job and he is one of the absolute best guys out there of just staying cool in the face of the most ridiculous statements, the dumbest shit, outright lies. Never gets emotional. Stays on point. Always perfectly stated. Every. Every point that he has is perfectly articul articulated. Stays on point. And I thought with him and Dave, one thing that he made was a very good point was the, the when he was talking about. What is that general's name? I want to say Wes, but that's not it.

Clark.

Wesley Clark. Wesley Clark, where he had the plan of, you know, attacking all this, but he never read it.

Right.

That was like one of the most important points. It's like they brought it to him, they told him what's in it, but he's like, I don't want to read it. That was an important point. And what Coleman said, if you were a historian, you could not have included that in your book. And I was like, he's right, he's right. And I don't. I still think they did it. I still think they did all those things. They obviously conquered all those countries. They literally did everything that's on that list. But the reality is he didn't. Wesley Clark did not read that list. He did not read that top secret memo. And to, you know, to use that as like, it is like if you were writing a book, that would be an issue.

I thought the other thing that Coleman did very well as well is I think the one thing Dave probably, in my opinion under appreciates is the role of Islamism. I think he often conflates Muslims with Islamists. And there's a big fucking difference. And one of like, I have a lot of friends in the Middle east and places like the uae, Saudi Arabia, they all hate Hamas, they all hate Islamists because they're a direct threat to them. And I think Coleman really brought that out in the conversation as well, which is a lot of the motivation for these Islamist movements is an extreme version of Islam that is fundamentally about creating a caliphate and destroying the infidel. And I think that sometimes gets lost as well. I thought that was a really great discussion in which that was kind of brought to the surface.

And by the way, that kind of ideologies existed in previous religions. Yeah, this has always been. Those Christians did that. Like there was a lot of people doing things like that. It's like, they gotta stop doing that. So the Muslims are correct and the Islamists are the problem. That's right, yeah. And this is, you know, this is where nuance and long form conversations are so critical because to just start calling each other names and screaming at each other and that, you know, these are dumb ways to talk. We don't have to do it that way anymore. Should only do it in person. I don't think you should even do them remotely because there's a, there's a possibility remotely where, you know, someone like, like starts yelling and then you're like, you, you're in your office, you're on Piers Morgan. Piers Morgan's the best at it. Yeah, well, he gets everybody worked up.

Yeah.

Hold on, hold on. Joy, Joy, Joy. Hold on. Joy, Joy, Joy, Joy. You just said.

Yeah. And then there's the finger going out like that. And then everybody joins in and.

Yeah, it's crazy. Very, very entertaining. Very. And he figured something out, you know, like do Maury Povich style with like today's social issues or anything. Anything that's in the news. But yeah, if you're at home and someone's doing that, you're. Shut the up. You're. You'll. You're gonna say something that you wouldn't say in politely.

That's right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's just we're not designed that way. We're not designed to communicate remotely. It's not in our DNA. It's weird. It's a new thing that we're adapting to. And we're missing all this stuff of conversation. All the stuff is like, I see you. I say, what's up? You smile. We say like, we're friends, we hug, like. And then we're talking, like. And you're telling me something. I'm like, oh, wow. Like, there's a fucking exchange of energy between human beings when they're talking that's just completely absent with text.

And there's also a darker side to it, which is like, there's also the presence of potential violence in person as well.

Yes.

Like, we all kind of don't want to go across certain lines because there's fucking consequences potentially now in the three of us. It's only going one way, but you know what I mean, like.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Because I.

Among men, that's a never present thing. Especially. Right.

Yes. Especially if men get cunty. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially if, Especially if you're a nice person and you can fight and someone's getting shitty with you, it's really hard to, like, not do something.

Right.

It's really hard to just go, like, I just want to show you something.

Yeah.

I think Mike Tyson Made this point is like, he said the Internet made people very comfortable with talking shit about.

You see that guy on the airplane? That's fucking with Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson winds up wailing on him, you fucking dumbass. You're trying to do Internet in real life with Mike Tyson.

But there was always a part of that as well. I remember when I was following Tyson's career, like, he would go to a nightclub and he'd be surrounded by bouncers because there'd be retards who want to fight him.

Oh, dude, I saw that in person. Not with Mike Tyson, but with Chuck Liddell. I saw the guys would get in his face. Yeah, I saw it in person. People are so stupid. There's people out there that are so dumb, they just have death wishes.

Why would you go up to a UFC champion and pick a fight?

I remember there was some sort of an altercation at a table next to him, and it bled out over into someone saying something to Chuck. And Chuck stood up and stared at this guy in the eyes like he was a wolf. It was like there was a wolf in a room with a bunch of chickens. And the look on the guy's face just. Chuck got up and looked at him. This is a man who separates people from their consciousness professionally. And at the time, he was a light heavyweight champion of the world. He was a terrifying human being when he was running the. And when he stood up and looked at that guy, that guy had this look in his face like, I just interneted in real life.

Like, what am I doing? What the fuck am I doing?

Like, confronted by Chuck Liddell's stare, you know, like, the only thing separating you is a stupid little couch.

Yeah, it's. I mean, you just wonder what goes through these people's heads. It's just not much.

They're the same people that show up at the no Kings rally. There's dumb people out there a lot. There's a lot of dumb asses.

Like, guys that think they're really hard, that are trying to test themselves.

They're drunk or on coke, and they. They're delusional. They're stupid. You know, some people are just been bluffing people their whole lives, so they think they're going to bluff their way through things.

There's no amount of alcohol you could give me to pick a fight. Chocolate.

Not stupid. You have to be stupid. And then drunk and drunk on top of stupid is a dangerous combination.

But it was, isn't it? Also the thing of, like, I see this so often because I used to Work at a sports radio station. And like the guys who play Premier league soccer, they are even the most mediocre in terms of the league is such a high level athlete. So high level. It's not only. You haven't even encountered someone like this, right. You haven't encountered someone like this mentally, physically. I remember there was a football player called Jack Wilshire who was a generational talent. Certainly he didn't fulfill his, his potential because of injuries. And I remember I knew a guy who used to play soccer with him when he was a kid. And I said to him, what was he like? He was like, it was like playing in different game. It was like playing a different game when he got the ball and what he was doing. And I think people, you know, there's that stupid part of every man who watches a boxing match goes, yeah, I could do that. Yeah, like, how hard is it actually? Really, I could play soccer. I mean, it's not that hard. You're just kicking a ball about.

Sure. And especially when you watch someone who's really good at something, it looks easy, right? It looks easy to them. You know, like you see Roy Jones Jr. In his prime pop up. Like, it looks easy for him, he's not even getting hit. But it's really hard, really, really, really hard to get good at something. And that's the problem with a lot of people out there as well. They never got really good at something. There's a giant percentage of our population that never had a passion, never had a thing that they threw themselves into. No matter what it is. Playing chess, you know, whatever it is, sailing, you have a thing. If you have a thing that you really love, doing that thing can change your life. It's a vehicle for you to developing your human potential. Because it's gonna be hard to get good at something with playing guitar, playing piano, whatever the fuck it is that you're doing. And when you figure out how much work is involved in getting really good and then becoming obsessed with getting really and better and better and better, that changes your whole understanding of what it is to be a person.

Because now you realize like, oh, there's like levels to life. There's levels to how you live life. And you can express those levels in sport and you could be like total. Like if you're the best at that, you're likely a mess everywhere else in your life. Most, most of those guys like. And you kind of have to be. There's no way you're gonna be the best dad and also the best basketball player. Not Possible because you have to be on the road. It's not possible.

Right.

There's no way you can't be the best husband, the best this, the best that. Like, you're gonna be a like, absent person here and just hyper focused on being the best guy. Getting that ball into the net and that's the only way to win. That's the only way to be the number one guy. But there's a balance in there. And finding something that you love, that you're good at, and then getting better at it is critical for mental health. It's critical for the way you engage with the world and how you understand other people's skill and other people's hard work and success and how you can draw inspiration from those people and that you could actually fuel you instead of hurt you.

It's an antidote to bitterness and resentful, which I have to say I think is inevitable if you don't do that.

I agree. I agree 100%. I think that's the opposite of bitterness, is inspiration. And you can get him from the same source. That's what's really crazy. If you see someone who's killing it, you go, God, what is he doing? And then you find out like, God, this guy works 16 hours a day, gets up in the morning, he does yoga, is drinking green tea, and he immediately starts writing. And he does all this. And then by, you know, someone's got like a super organized, disciplined life. You're like, wow. And seems really happy. Fuck. Okay, how to figure out what he's doing. You know, I gotta do something like that.

Yeah.

And. Or you can go, fuck that guy. He's a scammer. Fuck that guy. He's writing his shit. Fuck that guy. You know, I bought his book. It's garbage. There's a lot of people that just want you to fail because they won't. Don't like comparing themselves.

Right? You could think you can raise your status or you can lower theirs.

Crabs in a bucket, baby. It's always been crabs in a bucket. Crabs don't let other crabs get out of that bucket. They grab their legs and pull them right back down.

We were talking about this today. I mean, I think we've talked about this before, how when we were starting trigonometry in Britain, there is that crabs in the bucket culture, particularly in the comedy industry, which we were in at the time. I don't know if it's like this here, but like, it was hard to get out of that mindset and actually coming to the US Was a big thing for us. I remember I was talking to Tom Bilyeu. You know Tom, you've had him on right at his house in LA is like, looks like a spaceship overlooking. And we're sitting there in this giant house. And he said to me like, eventually, and he's very good friends and he's kind of been a mentor to me at times as well. And he said, you got to cut this British shit out, man. He literally said it like that about seeing like forgetting this. Like he was like, the sky's the limit, just go for it. And we very few people get taught that, you know?

Yeah, you have to, it has to come from somebody you respect.

Yeah, yeah, that's true.

And then you go, oh, that's how he's living his life now. I'm inspired to live my life that way. Yeah, yeah. We got real lucky in LA that there was a lot of successful people that were there at the time. So there was less resentment because everybody was really doing well. And you know, I've come, I come from a martial arts background. It's a different background. So in my background you have to have really good people around you. You have to like, you're better off being the second best guy in the gym. You're gonna learn more like the, the first get best guys kicking everybody's ass. Like you want to be the guy who's the second best guy in the gym. Like you want to be around, like he's gonna make you work hard because you like, fuck, I gotta beat that guy. You. And then you need all these young people like nipping at your heels all the time. Everybody needs everybody. And if you don't have that, you don't get good enough. And you'll go to a gym or you go to a tournament and you compete against people that do have that and that's their environment.

They're gonna kill you. They kill you all the time. The best guys are all the most assassin filled rooms. Nobody gets good in silence. Nobody gets good on their own. And it doesn't, doesn't happen in a vacuum. And I think that's comedy too. So I came into comedy with that mindset. Like we're all in this together, but when you're on stage, it's not me, it's you. I want you to do great. Like kill, destroy. Just go up. We're gonna all gonna do the best we can. And that's. And we're all in it together.

Yeah, it's. I think the problem comes with a lot of people Is that because this is such a big country, there's more opportunities?

Yeah, yeah.

And when you come from a smaller country of a smaller population, there's, there's, there's simply fewer opportunities. And so what that produces in people is like, well, there's only these six slots and there's this person and this person, and we're all going for the same slots. Therefore, they are a threat to me at this point, but also a threat to my future and future prosperity.

Famine mentality.

Yeah. So that's. I remember I have a very good mate of mine who's a stand up. He was on this show called Mock the Week. And he told this story, like he went to do a joke on the show. And this at the time was one of the biggest comedy panel shows in the uk. And this guy tapped him on the foot, he went, what? And then put his joke in.

Ew.

I heard Saturday Night Live was like that. Phil Hartman used to tell me horror stories about Saturday Night Live. When Phil Hartman first came over to newsradio, he was like a little standoffish at first, and it took a while for him to, like, open up with us. I thought maybe that's just like a weird thing about being that famous, because he was so famous and we weren't famous. You know, it was like being around people that like, maybe wanted something from you all the time. That's what I assumed. And so. But after a while, we became really close and it didn't take take that long for him to open up about it. And he said, when I was at Saturday Night Live, it was so dog eat dog and it was so backstabby and cutthroat. He goes, I just had my defenses up about everybody. And I was like, really? Like, like, what way? And he told me some stories. I don't want to name any names because, you know, I think they're probably ashamed of what they did back then too. But they would all steal each other's premises and they would fire each other's assistants and do terrible shit to each other.

They would sabotage each other's bits. They would go behind each other's back to Lorne Michaels and try to get something removed and fuck with each other all the time. And he just, like, he had physical confrontations with staff members and. Or cast members, rather. And so when he came over to News Radio hit, like, he had to, like, calm down. Like, he wasn't used to just being around fun people. It was weird.

Horrible way to live.

It is a horrible way to live. But there Was a lot of that going on in the 90s. In the 90s in LA in particular, everybody was trying to get on sitcoms. So say if we're all working together at the Comedy Store, we're all. If we were all reasonably the same age, there was a real problem because we're all going up for this new sitcom. And you know, you could be this guy's buddy who's like this hilarious character, and it would be an amazing thing. And all sudden you're picturing yourself in movies. You were there with Jim Carrey. You're on the red carpet, you're driving a Ferrari. It's literally all right there. The pathway's right there. And. And I get it. And you're like, joe got it. God damn it. And then you would feel it from them. Like you would go to the club and they'd be. People would say shitty things to you because you got cast on a sitcom. Right. It was weird. Everybody was like, just desperado. And I think the worst version of that was the late night hosts, because there was only like three of them.

Right.

Wow. And it was. Everybody was jockeying to be the host of the big one, which was the Tonight Show. So when Johnny Carson stepped down, it was just like this feeding frenzy. They were all want, everyone. Letterman wanted it, you know, of course Leno wanted it. Leno's hiding closets listening to people talk about it. Crazy. It's the most famine mentality because it's one job, right?

Yeah.

They all want. That was the golden carrot was hosting the Tonight Show.

That is the awesome thing about the Internet, man. It's just like, make your shit.

The beautiful thing about the Internet is that famine mentality is completely unnecessary. Like, if you find out there's some kid who makes $10 million a month on Twitch, how does that affect you? It doesn't. It doesn't. It doesn't.

The only way it affects you is it says, if I find a thing that I'm good at and I do it on the Internet, I'm gonna be rewarded.

Yeah. Just find a thing that resonates that you can. I mean, you can play video games and people watch and give you money. Okay. I mean, what do parents say now when they tell kids to stop playing video games, go get a job that pays almost nothing and sucks the soul right out of the top of your fucking head while you sit for that stupid monitor? Or play video games and drive a Porsche.

Yeah.

They can't say anything anymore. And then if you're an actually good video Game player. You can actually make money playing video games where your parents would encourage you. Like, Constantine, you're a really good golfer. Do you know golf scholarships are worth a lot of money? You could be a great golfer. Golfers get paid a lot of money and they would encourage you to take you to golf camp and teach you to work on your fucking swing. Then nobody's taking their kid to video game camp.

There is a college in the UK that was in the news couple of days ago that has created a video games department so you can go to college for video games. Sports training for competition.

Are video games competitions. Does it broke? Is it broken up by gender? Do they ever do that?

I don't think so.

I don't.

That's interesting. I. Yeah, because they do it with.

Chess, but they don't do it with dots. So in dots.

Oh, darts.

I was like, dots, that's my accent.

I'm gonna learn a new game.

Well, with darts, it's really interesting. So there's this guy called Luke Littler who is this 18 year old kid and he was at the age of 17, he was seen as this generational talent and he's doing super well. And I think a couple of weeks ago he got beaten by a girl.

Oh my God.

And that's like. And that's now seen as kind of this, this moment where it's actually going to be women in darts. It's an exciting time job. This is what we talk about in the uk.

There was a pool tournament in the UK where it's a woman's pool tournament and two transgender women were in the finals. Yeah. Yeah, that's wonderful. But the pool's a weird one because pools, not physically, it's not about strength. That's a weird one. Like one of the best players in the world is this guy named Ko Ping Chung. He's from Taiwan and He weighs like 115 pounds, maybe 120. He's very weak, Right. There's definitely women that are stronger than him. I mean, his, his arms are these tiny little arms, but he plays perfect. It's like a. He's a virtuoso. You watch him run out. You like his cue ball control is like, it's ungodly. It's like he's got it on a string. Like, why can't a woman do that? That doesn't make any sense. Like, it's not. That's a weird one. That's where there's differences between, like men's better at navigation of 3D spaces. There's there's certain hand eye coordination advantages. It's weird stuff. It's weird because it shouldn't make any difference except for the break shot. Take the break shot out and then there's nothing that involves strength. Strength. Everything involves like a delicate touch and, and a smoothness of the motion and an understanding of the game.

Isn't it also as well that women are far more, less likely to be obsessional than men? Men are far more likely to be single, focused, and if they find something that they enjoy doing, that they will do it ad nauseam until they become exceptional at it.

You know what that is? That's the hunter's persistence. You had to have that persistence to survive as a hunter. Like if you want to be a hunter, you got to get really good at a bow and arrow and then you get really good at stalking animals. You got to get really good and figure it out. Like, it's like a, like it has to be your primary life focus because that's how you eat. That's the only way to eat. It's hard to sneak up on an animal with a bow and arrow. So if you're doing that all the time, you, you have to have, or a spear even before that. So you had to have insane dedication to sticking with this. You couldn't go, this is never gonna work. And it could collapse with your spe. You had to get up and keep going. You had to be completely obsessed.

Yeah.

And so that makes its way to video games, that makes its way to pool and darts and chess and everything else. It's, it's hunters persistence. It's literally why we have it that's so interesting.

And, but it's also, and therefore women are less likely to have it because women weren't hunters or were far less likely to be.

It's interesting because there's a lot of women hunters today. It's not half, but there's a lot. There's a lot of women that, that go hunting. There's women that go backpack hunting, they go bow hunting, backpacking by themselves in the backcountry, which is nuts. Like you're a 120 pound woman and there's a fucking wolves and bears and mountain lions and. And you're out there in a tent that you set yourself by yourself. That's gangster. Like that takes fucking courage. You know, it takes courage for a man to do that. Like those are the elite of the elite hunters. The guys who go deep into the backcountry with a backpack. They put like £60 on their back. They carry their bow in. So they've got their food, they've got their tent, they've got everything on their back and they just go in and they'll go in for weeks. That's the craziest level of it. And if you're a woman and you're doing that like you are, that's a gangster lady. Like that lady could do anything. Like if she could do that, like, you know, much courage you have to have to be 120 pound woman and hike 15 miles into the back country where there's bears and mountain lions and all kinds.

And they know where you are and you don't know where they are. They know where you are. The moment you enter that forest. They start smelling you miles away. They know you're around and you're just.

What's the appeal of bow hunting over firearms?

It's harder. It's harder to do.

And I suppose more natural, quote, unquote, you're closer to your ancestors, right? The way they would have hunted.

That sort of. I mean the kind of bows that I, I shoot, they're really good. I, I shoot a Hoyt. And it's there, there's like a couple of like really big companies and Hoyt is one of the big companies that makes the absolute best bows. And every year they make a bow that's slightly better. Every year, slightly better. Like I have the bow this year, that's next year's bow. It hasn't come out yet. Like they gave me it before. Gets released in November and then people start buying it right after that. But I got it a couple months ago. And every year they get better. Somehow or another, it's nothing like a fucking piece of wood with a string and a stick that you made yourself with one of these on the end of it, right like that you made yours. That's a real one? Real Native American. Yeah, it's a real Native American arrowhead.

Oh, wow.

Stone, right?

Yeah.

Flint. I believe the ones that I have, I mean, I measure the arrows exactly. They're 475 grains each one of them. I have a 125 grain broadhead. Each one weighs exactly in the range of 125 grains. I measure them all. I weigh everything to make sure that's not like there might could be some factory defect. And one is like three or four grains heavier. If it is, I pull that sucker out because my sight is based entirely. My tape that I like have my yardage on is based entirely on the speed of the arrow and the Strength of the bow measured through a chronograph. I have a range finder that tells me the exact distance between me and the animal. And then I dial that up on the scope. So the reticle, like the. The fiber optic dot raises and lowers and it puts it exactly where I need to aim at like 55 yards or whatever, right over the vitals. And then I just draw back and stay calm and execute the shot.

Yeah, that doesn't sound like the ancestral environment.

But it's as close as you can get to the ancestral environment and be ethical and lethal because you don't want to wound an animal.

Yeah, yeah.

You want to kill them. So you have to practice every day. You have to shoot arrows every day. Because it's a thing you have to like, lock into your memory. Because in high pressure situations, it's like.

Yeah, I bet your heart is fucking going.

You have to not let that happen. Happen too. That's the other thing. You have to do it enough times so you recognize it coming on. You're like, no, no, no, no.

Wow.

You got to stay dead, stay calm. You got to just like zone out. You got to just go through your. Your shot process. Know exactly what to do, but don't even think about it. Just do the thing. Do the thing that you've trained to do. Just execute, do it. And then afterwards go, holy shit. Afterwards you let yourself come back to normal. You gotta, like, stay in this zone. There's like a zone of non excitement. You know, like I would imagine an assassin gets in that zone. Like getting in the zone of non excitement, like where you just like stay right there focused. But don't let that ever happen. Don't let it get there. You gotta stay right there. And the only way to know how to do that is you have to experience it a bunch of times.

Yeah.

And then see, and then you also have to have experience in doing other difficult things. So you know how to navigate and manage adrenaline and stress. And that's what's missing with a lot of people in life. They don't. So any little thing that gives them anxiety, all of a sudden they're freaking out and screaming and running around. Because they don't know how to handle pressure.

Yeah, they don't know how to handle pressure. What's so interesting about the bow is to see if you look at it historically, it was, it was, it's technology. So you saw in the Hundred Years War, the English used the longbow and the French use the crossbow. Yeah. And the differences in between and part of the reason that the English won the 100 Years War was because the longbow was just so easy. Take it.

Yep.

Whereas a crossbow, you fire it. It's power. And then you've got to get. And then reload and do all of that.

And it's hard. It's hard to reload.

Yeah.

Pain in the ass.

Yeah. And then you fire. And then. So by the time a Frenchman. I don't. I don't know the stats. Had fired one, the Englishman had already fired several.

Well, the Comanche used to keep them in between their fingers. So they would hold four or five arrows at a time, and they would just go like this. And they would do that while they're on horseback. And they had it burned into their memory because they did it all day long. They did it when they were hunting, they did it when they were fighting. And they were always fighting. That's all they did, the Comanches. And they didn't make any art. And all they did is kill things and eat things. They ate buffalo and they killed everybody. They up all the Americans or all the settlers that tried to make it across there because they had muskets. And you'd get off one shot and they would hit you with four arrows, and they would run at you while they're shooting arrows at you. And you're like, fucking stupidity. That you have to do to shoot a musket.

Yeah.

You know, you couldn't compete with them. They just. They fucked everybody up. Until colt figured out the.45. Until they figured out. I mustn't. I don't guess it was. Was it the.45? But whatever it was was a revolver. And a revolver had a chamber. You could shove it in there and you have five or six shots. I forget how many they initially had, but that's what changed everything. Otherwise, they were just fucking people up. But that's. That was just technology. It's all technology. And this technology is primitive enough. Like bow hunting technology is primitive enough anymore. Like, I have friends that hunt with recurve bows. So they just hunt with a regular bow. They don't have a sight on it. It's just like, instinctive where you hit. It's not that accurate. You know, animals are moving. You're guessing. There's a lot going on. There's a. There's a high likelihood of wounding rather than killing.

And animal runs away, so you can't.

Actually finish it, especially if you don't wound them that much. And it's just me personally, but there's people that are Good enough at it that they do it with that.

That.

And they're just more. Even more lethal than I am with a compound bow. They are with a recurve. They just know how to sneak up, and they have to get a lot closer. They want to get like 20 or 30 yards. They want to get really close.

But that's what I love about America, is that your wildlife here is wild.

Oh, yeah. You know, we got a lot of. That'll kill you.

Yeah, we've got that mountain lion.

Did you see the mountain lion that's stuffed out front?

No. No.

You didn't see it?

No.

It's right in the middle of the. The Right where the green room area is up front, right in front of the television.

Is that new?

Yeah, it's my friend. My friend Adam Green Tree. He shot it in Colorado and ate it. He ate a mountain lion.

Can you eat. You can eat you.

Yeah. He gave me some of the loin. Mountain lion tastes like it's like a really good pork. Like the best pork you've ever had. Yeah. It's weird.

Yeah. But I remember I was talking. I did Red Band's gig this secret show on Thursday, and backstage, he was showing me there was a bobcat with its cubs in his backyard. Yeah, it was incredible.

Yeah. Bobcats won't hurt you, luckily.

Well, they could.

They really could if they wanted to.

I bet if you do. If you got close to mama with the boat with the cop, she's gonna. You up and she.

I wonder. I don't. I don't think I've ever heard of a bobcat attacking a person. I mean, I'm sure they probably have. Someone's probably done something stupid, woke up.

To it, like, it's chocolate, bro.

Someone's probably a bobcat, all right. There's probably a dude somewhere that, like, lost a bet and had a bobcat.

Right.

I wouldn't. I wouldn't doubt that. If you had to bet all your money on yes or no, I'd be like, yes, there's a guy. There's some wild dude from Arkansas or what. But the point is, that mountain lion that Adam shot, that was. It was a depredation one where they had to kill it because it was killing all these cows, and they had stumbled upon this one calf that had gotten right before they got to it. It eviscerated this calf, and it was still alive, and it had eaten some of its organs, and they had to kill the calf, and then they're, like, hunting for this mountain lion, and he has A video of him shooting this thing. Dogs chase it up a tree, and then he shoots it with a bow and arrow. And then he had it stuffed here and he ate it.

You aim for the heart or the head?

Yeah, you aim for the heart and the lungs, whatever is available, depending on the position of the mountain lion's arm. Right. Like, if the arm is, like, right here, you want to. You want to tuck it right behind the shoulder, and you're going to get double lungs. And if the arm is up here, you get to either get the heart or the lungs, depending on where their arm is or whether or not you have a bow that's powerful enough to go through the arm and into the body cavity.

Is there a risk? Because maybe this is like an urban myth, but if you hurt an animal but you don't kill, it will come back. Some of them will come back to fuck you up. Like a kind of revenge movie.

No John Wick of animals, I imagine.

They just run away.

They run away. Well, it's wild. Like deer that have survived with an arrow in their body cavity. There was a deer skeleton that they found of a deer that they. That someone a hunter killed eventually. And this thing had a arrow that had gone through its body and had turned all into bone. So bone had taken over this arrow and the whole cake. There it is. That's what it looked like.

Wow.

Isn't that crazy? So you could see the broadhead had embedded itself in one of the ribs. So not only did the deer survive, but its body adapted and grew around the arrow.

Wow.

Wow. Actually, the reason I said that about. That is insane about the animal was I know that corvids, particularly crows, can remember. They can remember. And then there's been instances where people have hurt crows and the crows thrown away, and then a group of them have attacked the person.

Oh, yeah, they're really smart. There's. They're super. And ravens, I think, that are. They're actually different than crows, and they're even smarter than crows. Do you know there's a parrot. What was that parrot that. Yeah. Who told us about that? Who was that the other day? Was that Palmer? Palmer Lucky? I think so.

Oh, is that the dude with the helmet?

Yes.

Holy shit, that helmet, bro.

Bro, that helmets nuts. The helmets nuts. This guy. That guy was. Every now and then I get to sit down with someone and they start talking. I go, whoa. He. This guy's fucking crazy smart. Like, weirdly smart. Okay, I got it. I got it. Like, tell me what you're doing. And he Was telling us about this parrot that actually would speak like a human toddler. And new colors, new numbers, could say things and would communicate.

African gray.

Yeah.

Yeah.

African grays, they have, they. They can have the IQ of a four year old child.

That is nuts.

Yeah.

When you see this thing talking, you like.

Yeah. And their imitation of sounds is like dead on. Dead on.

Yeah. But you have to be around them all the time.

Right? Right.

You have a twin that you have to take with you everywhere you go.

Yeah.

Really? Because they just get pulled and then they're too smart.

They actually stop like chopping their own wings off and shit like that if they don't get stimulation. Yeah, they really need a lot of stimulation. I thought about owning a parrot, but I just traveled too much.

Yeah, you don't know. You don't want that in your life. That's too much work.

It's. It's a commitment.

Yeah. If you leave it alone, it'd be sad too.

Yeah, but that's what I'm saying.

Yeah.

They get mad. I had a buddy of mine who had a parrot and when he would leave it, he would come home and start screaming, where the fuck were you? Wasn't really saying that, but it was like that was what it was saying.

Yeah, it was screaming, why get married when you've got that?

And then he had to, upon coming home, immediately take it out. And take it out, like put it on his shoulder or put it in his hand and if you put it down for a second, it would start getting pissed off. It's crazy. I'm like, dude. He goes, I know it's a lot because I didn't think it was gonna be this much. It was like. It was a lot of work.

Yeah.

Joe, I'm not. Hope I'm not being implied. Have you got any of those cigars we always smoke? I would love a cigar.

Let's go, baby.

It's a weird thing to ask to be.

These are really good.

I should have said. If you offer us a cigar, we'll accept one, please. Thanks.

We have a big ass humidor. There is a. Oh, I didn't bring my. There somewhere right here.

Bonobo chimps are very interesting like that as well.

They're the weirdest. Right. Because they just. All the time. This might, might need some juice. Let me give you a little juice.

Go for it.

They're weird because it's like, okay, so chimps can be either hippies or they can be, you know, like the worst barbarians in human history.

It's like us just like us.

Yeah, that's what's weird because, like. But also the bonobos, like, they don't have any. They have one rule. The rule is the mom won't fuck the son. That's it.

It's a good rule. So, yeah, it's a good fucking rule, man.

Bunch of sister fuckers and daughter fuckers.

But they're not motherfuckers.

Yeah, they're probably dad too. They're probably. They're probably doing gay sex too. They seem wild. They're just having a good time. But.

So they're not homophobic?

No, not at all. And they solve all their problems with that.

Do you need to cut these ones?

Yeah.

How do you.

It opens like a door.

Oh, all right.

And then you pull this.

But, you know, they can learn sign language.

Oh, yeah. You know what's interesting, though, they don't.

Ask questions, so they're like men.

But the parrot did.

The parrot did.

Yeah, the parrot asked questions. The parrot had some questions about how things work.

The African Grays are incredibly intelligent. Incredibly intelligent.

Well, what I'm interested in is what happens when we can start really decoding dolphin language with AI.

Right.

And once they really understand what they're saying, then things are going to get very strange.

Light it.

You know, because, like, what are they? I mean, they're really smart. Like silly smart. Like, dolphins have enormous frontal lobes.

Oh, yeah, man. And communication.

They have dialects. They have.

They have dialects.

Yeah. They sound different.

Well, that makes sense. I mean, that makes sense, right? The difference. Slightly different.

Well, on that note, you think. What about whales? Whales brains are literally bigger than us. They're enormous. So if we're talking about brain size equals which I'm.

It's brain size relative to body mass.

Yeah. Oh, is it?

Yeah, yeah. Because you need a big fucking brain to run a big boy.

Yeah.

Right, right. Which is also the argument for why the Neanderthals might have been dumber than us.

Well, they were.

They don't know that though.

Really.

Yeah, they had pretty big brains. What's weird about them is they also had language. They had writing and. Or they had. They definitely had writing.

I don't think they had writing.

No, they didn't have writing. They had language. But they. They did do art. That's what it is. It wasn't writing necessarily, but they drew stuff and they had a brain that's bigger than ours, but they were also, like jacked. They had bigger eyeballs. There was a guy that. There was a crazy theory that I'm sure is horseshit, but it was cool. Like he made Neanderthals look way different. This guy had a theory, like, because we're just. We've never seen a live Neanderthal. And he was like, what if we are getting it totally wrong? And what if they were more gorilla looking then?

Well, we have their skulls and skeletons.

We have some stuff. And they also think they have red hair. This guy was. It's a crack theory, but it was a fun theory. But one of the more fun aspects of this guy's crack theory was that their eyeballs are so much bigger than ours. Their sockets are really big. He's like, what if they have night vision like a deer or like a wolf, you know, which is totally possible for a primate to have. It's not like, it's not like there's anything about being that kind of a mammal that would exclude you from being able to develop night vision eyesight.

Are there primates that have that?

I don't know.

Because there's mammals for sure.

Yeah, yeah. Let's ask. Let's ask perplexity. What is that called when they have night vision, when animals are nocturnal and they could see well at night? You know that thing that, like when you're driving and you're see a fox or something?

Yeah, the reflective eyes that they all have.

What is that?

I don't.

So called.

I don't know.

I don't know.

We should know.

Do you know there's a very interesting theory about Neanderthals and Homo sapiens is there are some people who think that we are one of the few species, or one of the only species that has the capacity to deceive and trick. So there was. There's a. There's a theory going around.

Monkeys do that. Monkeys trick other monkeys into thinking there's an eagle coming. So they steal fruit.

Do they?

Yeah, they yell out the sound for eagle and then all the monkeys run away and then they steal the fruit.

Oh, really?

Yeah. So here it is. Among primates, the tarsier and the night monkey, owl monkey are the species with the best vision adapted to night conditions. Right. Okay. So they do see, look at that. Largest eyes relative to body size of any mammal. So it's something about having a large eye because if you. Okay, so despite lacking a tapetum lucidum, the reflective layer that cause eye shine in many nocturnal animals. Oh, that's what that is. The retinas contain extremely high density of rod photoreceptors, which are highly sensitive to dim light. This allows tarsiers to detect and track prey Such as insects in near darkness and they can see in light as low as 0.001 lux. Similar to Moonless nights. Damn. So there's a bunch of different little primates.

Oh, Loris's.

Why mean if you were living in a time, especially if you didn't have fire, if you're living in a time where, you know, there's no roofs, like you're, you're, you're hunting, you're outside at night, you're probably spending as much time as you can hunting. Because Neanderthals weren't gatherers, they weren't farmers, so all they did was hunt. So they probably had some sort of night vision which were wild.

Yeah. The thing that I find interesting is what is the. I think there's a certain. The average person in Europe has around 3% Neanderthal.

Mm.

DNA.

DNA 3 and 3% if you African zero. Right. So it's, it's just really interesting. And you see some people and they're more, they kind of have more of a Neanderthal kind of appearance to them.

Yeah, for sure.

And then other people and you go, what does that actually give you, that 3%? What does it do? Is there any discernible difference whatsoever? Does it make you perhaps more athletic, more, more resilient?

It's a good question. I mean, I think it would depend. I mean there's also a bunch of other weird strains of human that existed like Dennis Ovens and there's quite a few other ones.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, who knows if I think the Denis Ovens, I think they definitely got into the gene pool too. I forget who they were saying had high levels of, of Denis Ovind DNA. It might have been Aboriginal Australians, but you know, there was a bunch of different types of human. You know, we just figured out how to be the cuntiest and the most conniving and I think probably the most clever.

Well, Harari's. Have you read Sapiens? His thesis is we worked, I had to work together beyond the 150dunbar number. That was his idea is basically we created these shared myths, religion, money, whatever nation. All of the stuff that we all agree is real. You know, it feels real. But the reason we out competed other species is that we could cooperate across beyond our immediate tribal group. And that's the reason that makes sense.

That makes sense. There's also human beings have a very distinct desire to make better things all the time. And if you have that and you're applying that to weapons, you're gonna make the best Weapons, you know, I don't know if Neanderthals had that, you know, did they have. I mean, if you're gonna make stuff, right, if you're gonna make tools, you must have some creativity and some desire.

To innovate and curiosity.

Yeah, curiosity. Desire to innovate. Because we know that, look, there's certain animals that will use weapons, right. There's certain. Like there's a famous photograph of an orangutan that's spearfishing. Have you ever seen that photo? But it learned how to do it from people. And, you know, they'll use rocks to break open crabs and they'll do stuff like that. But they're not fastening an arrowhead on a stick or a spear, and they're making it with flint. The animals did that. So they got to a level where they're like, okay, this is like craftsmanship. Like, this is sophisticated craftsmanship. And it would also probably indicate some sort of a complex language that you could explain where you get the gut that you turn into fiber that you use to tie the arrowhead to the stick. Like they were doing some high level stuff.

Yeah.

Sorry.

For a primate.

Yeah. I would imagine also a lot of the innovation comes once you have the agrarian revolution, because there's now surplus food.

Yeah.

And so you can afford to have a bunch of guys sitting around not hunting, but, like, thinking about shit or inventing things or. Or making things in a different way.

Did you see that discovery of a skull that was 500,000 years older than they thought was the origin of human beings? So that it potentially pushes back the original homo sapiens to 500,000 years.

Is that real?

Yeah, they think it might push back the date. I mean, it's under debate, I'm sure, but I think they might push back the date of the arrival of Homo sapiens to a million years.

Wow.

Yeah.

But it just shows, you know, how. How little we know about ancient civilization. Stonehenge in the uk, which is this iconic.

Have you been? No, I haven't.

You should go.

It's special energy there, man.

Yeah, it's really impressive. And like Constance said, there's a special energy and it's. It's a profoundly moving place. When you visit it, you feel as if you have a connection to something else. It's like going to the pyramids, but they have no idea. They have a rough idea of where the stones might have come from, but they've got no idea how they got there, how they erected them.

Yeah, you should go, man. Joe Rogan arrested a Heathrow Airport. That would be a great fucking story.

I'm sure they can find some tweets or just the things that I've said. Does that count as social media? The things that I've said talking shit about England?

Yeah, of course.

I'm sure they could ask me for that.

I don't get arrested.

Yeah, maybe not. But why would I take that chance? I could just look at a picture of Stonehenge. The weird thing about that English countryside to me is the weirdest thing is the crop circle thing. Because the crop circle thing I used to think was stupid. I was like, so some people flattening things out with a board and making designs, that's it. And then I started watching some people that were actual scientists that were breaking down what's actually happening to these plants. Like something weird is going on. They're not just pushing these things down, whoever's making these. I'm not suggesting aliens are making them, but they're making them in a way where they're using energy and it's causing the nodes in these plants to burst and they're bending over. They're not snapping. A lot of them are bent in place. It's all very weird. And they're woven. There's no footprints in, no footprints out. And some of them appear, like, overnight, and they're these massive geometric patterns. It's really weird stuff, because if this is a coordinated effort, some of them are fractals. And you see the fractals and they're across, like what you would say of a soccer pitch, like, bigger than that.

Bigger than a soccer field, with massive, like, fractal patterns perfectly woven into crops. It's weird. They're weird. I don't think it's. I think some people made them by stomping on boards and moving them around. But those, you can kind of tell because they're different and they're not that sophisticated and they're not that impressive. But there's been some ones that would see if you pull up some of these giant fractal ones, there's been a few where you see people in them. Like that one?

Yeah.

You see people, like, standing in them and you go, oh, fuck.

All right.

Wow, look how small those people are.

Like on the left, that's people, right?

Yes.

So this appeared overnight. What? Yes, overnight. And some of them, like this, have appeared in an afternoon where a guy has flown his small plane over a field, worked, and then flown his small plane back, and all of a sudden, this massive fractal geometric pattern is in this, these crops. And what's weird is some of them look like they have messages and some of them just look like patterns. And one of them was the Mandelbrot set. Okay. The Mandelbrot set is a particularly complex fracture, fractal rather that I think right after it was discovered was when it appeared in a crop circle. Like not, not long after. Like, look at this, they're woven. Wow, this is weird stuff.

This is in England, right?

Exactly. A lot of them are in England. And I've always wondered, like, what is that about? And you could say, oh man, it's just bullshit. It's people fucking around. It might be, it might be. But if it is, it's the most incredible hoax of all time. Because the people that did say that they did it, when they asked him, there's a couple, couple friends who like were making crop circles and they said, show us how you do it. And they showed them how to do. But the stuff, they made one shit. It wasn't shit. It wasn't like this. They would have a string and they would like step on this board and they would do it in a circle. So they made sure it was circle, but it wasn't this. You guys, something's going on. Like whatever that is, someone's fucking with somebody. There's some sort of technology that we're not aware of. That's. That kind of makes sense to me. Because if we know that direct energy weapons are real, right? So if this is saying that they're creating this with microwave energy or something similar to that, that's making these nodes burst so you can find the burst nodes of crop circles.

Because that's what's weird. Like some of them, it's almost like, like a microwave cooking something and it pops like a hot dog. That's what it looks like. And if you had a weapon, not a weapon, but a thing that you could point down from a satellite and you could make a geometric pattern in crops, you could just burn it into the crop like instantaneously. Why wouldn't you do that? Just to show that you could do it. Look how cool this is. Look at this thing that we invented. This is a direct energy weapon. But if you use it low level, you can literally imprint a geometric pattern into crops. No footprints in, no footprints out. I mean, they're like, oh, aliens are trying to leave messages. Or high level government agencies that are using black funded operations and misappropriating funds in line of congress have developed a way to fucking take fractals and beam them into fields, man.

Some of the stuff, like the war in Ukraine has accelerated technological development of weapons in a way that. Like the drone warfare that's going on right now.

Nuts.

It's fucking crazy.

Nuts.

Like the next war. That's good. If there's another big war between like two big countries that's going to be. There's gonna be like something we used to watch in the movies, man. It already is in the way they have these like drones because they've worked. I have to jam them or hijack them. So now they're on a fiber optic cable that's like 10 kilometers long.

Yeah. And then birds are taking them and making nests out of them.

Right.

It's fucking insane.

So that's the only photo I see that comes up. Okay, well, they had burst. That's that one. The white one in the center. Yeah, that one right there. So you could see how these things, they're expanded out in some weird way, like energy. Not like they're broken, but like that. They got hit with something like a. Like a focused energy that made them bend over in that pattern. Like, look at all this. Look how weird that is. And this has been documented a lot of the really complex ones. And that's why it's strange. Like, look at, look at that one in the center. That looks like a maze. I mean, what the fuck, man?

Jamie, what's the official explanation of how these things are made?

When I go, everything I'm looking up says the. There's people that have admitted to making most of them and they've been proven to be made a lot of times. I'm sure they made a bunch of them. That's all I'm just. That's coming up. Yeah, I think people are a little dismissive of the weirdness of this because there are some of these. Like, that's the Mandelbrot set. That one right there. That fractal, when did it appear after the Mandelbrot set? It was in 91. Okay. These are obviously man made. They're far too symmetrical for that.

Obviously not man made.

Obviously not man made. Excuse me. Far too symmetrical for that. This is in Cambridge Weekly, but that's someone's opinion. When did the Mandelbrot set first get discovered as a fractal? What is the origin of the Mandelbrot set? When was the origin date for the discovery of the Mandelbrot set? It's a very complex. It's really cool if you watch like a 3D version of the Mandelbrot set. I guess discovered or created because they're really just discovering something that's. That's geometry. So in 1980.

1970 was first. Was first.

First roughly drawn by mathematicians.

78.

Okay. And then first visualize in high quality in March 1st of 1980. And that thing was from 1991. Is that what it was from. And this is that it was so close to Cambridge that it was most likely. Ah, students. Cocksuckers. Got me. See if you can find a 3D video of the Mandelbrot set. Because it's so weird when you see what this thing really is like. Fractals are very strange because something about them that resonates with your brain goes, oh, this is how the universe is. You know, Because I tend to think that's really what's going on. Especially when you look at human brain tissue versus a map of the universe. Have you ever seen that? Like human neural maps and then a map of the actual universe itself. You're like, that's a little too close. Like, that's kind of dead on the money. They look exactly the same. It looks like it's exactly the same thing. And it's completely like if you believe in infinity and if the universe is infinite.

Wow.

So this is a 3D version of the Mandelbrot said.

Wow.

So as you get closer and closer. This is not the one I'm looking for. This is like an artist's rendition of it. But a 3D video of it will show, like, how the closer you get, it becomes bigger again and then it goes into another thing, and then you get close to that one and then it becomes bigger again and it's just the fractal nature of it. And then you. You think about, like, okay, if the universe is infinite, that it's not even. That's it. Get to that one. If the universe is infinite, it's not even remotely absurd to think that the whole universe is just human neural tissue of another creature that lives in another universe. And hopefully this dude doesn't blow his own brains out, because that might be the Big Bang. The Big Bang. The Big Bang might be the guy who is our universe. He's depressed and he would explain.

That kind of explains a lot.

And he hates his job and he's going to stick a gun in his mouth.

Yeah.

Isn't that nuts? Like, this is the. That's a. Like an actual. Now see if you can find a photo that compares human neural tissue with the universe. You ever see, you know that image I'm talking about, Jamie?

That Thing of disappearing. It gave me a flashback to when I broke my arm. They took me to the hospital and they gave me ketamine.

Oh, yeah.

Fucking hell, man. Yeah, I thought I died. I literally. I thought I felt myself, like, disappear into this thing. And I was like, okay, that's it. I'm done. And then.

Was it fun?

No, it was. Not remotely. Was it fun when you thought you died, Constantine? No, it wasn't.

Look at that. Look at those two things. Look at these two things. One of them is human brain cells. What is exactly. What is the image Exactly? It's human neural tissue. Right. Is that what it. Well, let's find out what it is so we could say it not sound totally stupid. So what does it say? I can't read that. Brain cells. Brain cell. Yeah. Yeah. Remarkably similar to our own brain cells and the connections. Remarkably similar. That's. Okay. So the left is a brain cell. The right is the universe. That dude's going to put a gun in his mouth and go, I'm done. And right now he's dressed like a furry. And he just pooped his pants. He's like, I've had enough. I've had enough.

That's what I love about thinking about the universe. It's like the illusion of control. It's like we don't. We don't matter. We don't control shit.

Right. And also, the outrage that you have is greatly accelerated by the fact that light pollution has robbed you from this perspective. You can't look up and see the cosmos in all its glory anymore. So the more we're deprived of that, the more ridiculous we get, because we're never just faced with the awe of the universe. Like the whole, like, whoa. When you see a sky that's just filled with stars, there's something about that that's so humbling and so wild and so incredible.

I've been in a place in Armenia which had, I think, one of the biggest observatories in the Soviet Union. And you go up in the mountain, we don't need any equipment. You basically don't see the sky. You just see stars. Like, the entire sky is completely lit up by the stars.

That's so nuts.

Yeah. And when you think about it, when everybody's on their phones now, what do you do when you're on your phone? You look down, right? It's the absolute, complete opposite of looking up into the stars.

It really is.

So as a result, you go, well, no wonder we're so completely self obsessed. Narcissistic, solipsistic, Whatever word you want to use. Because we're completely looking down into ourselves.

Yeah.

Well, actually, if you look up and you see that you.

You.

You become humble, you realize of your own insignificance, your mortality.

Yeah. You're not even looking into yourself. You're really just being overwhelmed by nonsense. You get these tiny little dopamine hits, staring at horseshit. I watched four videos today of kids playing with baby goats. I didn't get anything out of that. It was cute, but. But I could have been doing things instead of just sitting there staring at it. I want to be super opposite of that. But the looking down thing is sort of a thing. A lot of reflective pools back in ancient times were used to monitor stars. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, that's true. And put things down. Yeah. And see where they move. That way you don't have to hurt your neck. You can figure out the stars. That's also a crazy thing. Right. Because like, how many ancient civilizations use the stars and use the constellations to align their buildings? You know, the Egyptians did it, the Mayans did it.

Temple of Abu Simbel.

Yeah.

Where it was done. And they still don't know how they did it mathematically. So there was a beam of light coming from the top at a certain point, and it would hit the altar.

Stonehenge is like that.

Yep.

The summer solstice, everything lines up.

Yeah.

You know, this is one of the things we just had. The historian. Dan. Dan Snow. Right. And we talked about the history of England. And one of the things we're talking about is Stonehenge. And I watched the documentary in which he was saying, well, you know, in many ways, the people were living during this time. They were really like us. And I was thinking, no, they were fucking not. No, they were fucking not. Think about the investment of time, resources that it would take them to build Stonehenge. Right, right. And this is not a thing that has a functional purpose in the way that we would understand it. We would not invest a quarter of our GDP into building a stone structure that aligns with the sun.

And they don't really even know when they did it.

Right.

No, they're just guessing.

Yeah.

Yeah, totally.

And when you get to. We get the weird stuff like Gobekli Tepe, where they didn't even think people were capable of doing that 11,000 years ago.

Yeah.

And it was purposely covered up 11,000 years ago. And you find these giant stone columns. You're like, we don't know anything. We don't know what these people were up to this is kind of kooky.

And how they thought. I remember when I was on tour with Jordan, him and I were talking one night, and, I don't know, it was a weird experience. It sounds crazy, but when I was spending time with him, we were talking a lot. The way I saw things slightly changed. Like, the images became more, like, vivid in my head. And one of the things he was talking about is the mindset of, say, like, there were certain tribes that would sacrifice one of their children for some kind of reason, right? Something like that. And when he was talking, I suddenly had this vision of, like, being there. And he said, now think about what that's like. What do you have to believe and how do you have to think to be willing to sacrifice your own child for something willingly? Willingly. Now, think of the bond with your children for you to think that that is the right thing to do. You gotta be a different human being to the three of us.

Yeah. And you gotta be, first of all, probably real comfortable with death, because back then, I bet people died real easy and real often.

And also maybe you've got to be really fucking terrified of something.

Really terrified of something. And really believe that if you don't do this, like, everyone's gonna die. You have to sacrifice one kid or we're all doomed. Right? Yeah.

But, you know, in different. I remember in Venezuela, I. Quite depressing story, but in places like South America, they are far more comfortable with death than we are. I remember I met this girl at this party when I was 18 years old. I really liked her. There was a little bit of a vibe going on, but I knew she liked my friends, so I didn't do anything. And I went home, back to the uk. I came back a year later and I said to my friend, hey, Diana, that girl I was talking to, what's she up to now? And he went, you didn't know? I went, no. He went. She was in a car, driving down the motorway. She was getting chased by some dude. She tried to outrun him, lost control of the car, hit a wall. The car burst into flames. I was like. And he went, anyway, dude, you want a beer? Because when you're in those kind of cultures and people were died or kidnapped, it becomes, you know, you simply can't have that visceral reaction all the time because it overtakes you, it paralyzes you, and you can't function. So people in Venezuela will get kidnapped on the weekend, and on the Monday, they're back at work.

Oh, boy. Jesus.

So I think a Lot of it is adaptive, you know.

Yeah, well, people definitely adapt to all sorts of crazy environments. I mean, you see that all over the world. And the problem is you'll see people living, you know, like, say, villagers in the Congo do, and you're like, oh, that's so different than me. Like, no, bitch, you just don't live there. If you lived there, that would be exactly how you would live. You would live just like them, because that's all they can do. They have no way out. So they're stuck here. And you would be, too.

Especially if you have no access to other information or other cultural values or anything.

Exactly. Exactamundo. Which is why we need Mormons to be missionaries, so they can travel to.

Places to teach these people.

That story will always fit. I feel bad laughing at someone being killed, but that's story about the guy who went to that island.

Yeah. He wasn't a Mormon. He went to North Sentinel Island. North Sentinel island is particularly odd because that place, that area had been invaded by this guy. When Jamie comes back, I'll have him look up the story. The guy there was a God. I forget his name, but he was a pervert. And he would go to these islands and make these guys dress up like Roman soldiers. And he would. He would write down in his journal the size of their testicles. Like, this one had testicles the size of a sparrow's egg. He was a total freak. And he also kidnapped people from that island and gave a bunch of people the flu. So he kidnapped people and gave them whatever, the flu or some sort of disease. And two old people died. And then they returned the kids back to the island. So they all had horrific stories about these white people that would visit and measure your dicks and give you a flu. And so when that kid came and tried to give them the Bibles, he didn't know the history. He didn't know that these people had, like, a severe rejection of these seven boats.

People died. And then, you know, they told these stories around the campfire. Some guy who comes and measures your dick and then everyone dies. Like, these were like this. That was their folklore. So when he showed up, like, you know, trying to convert these people, like, they already. They weren't hearing it.

No. They're like, don't touch my dick, dude.

Yeah. They're like, I know what you're up to. I heard the story from my grandpa campfire. Yeah. That place is nuts. It's only 39 people living there.

But you.

Size of Manhattan.

Really?

Yeah. Size of Manhattan, Middle in the Indian Ocean. And the people living there, the direct descendants of people who left Africa 50,000 years ago. Wow. Some of them just stayed on that island. And then it got to be a very small genetic diversity. You know, there's only. There's a very small amount of people on that island. That's where things get real weird. It's like you kind of got to leave them there now, you know?

Yeah. There's no coming back, is there?

What are you gonna do? You gonna teach them how to make stuff? Like, what are you gonna do? Show them how to make a boat? This is how you make a car. It's like, what are you gonna do? That's their culture. There's, you know, they're isolated from the entire world. And they have been for giant chunks of history. Except for when dudes came over and measured their dicks.

Can you imagine? That was your only reference for white people.

Well, there was another boat that it.

The dick master here.

And they invaded the boat. They were going after the people in the boat and they got out just in time. They got rescued just in time. And that's how they started getting metal, because they didn't have metal up until then. So they were taking pieces of. Of the boat and using it to fashion weapons with.

Wow.

They didn't have any metal up until that point.

You know, it was really interesting is how some things still resonate. Like I was talking to Constantine about the Greek myths and how I was really obsessed with them when I was a kid. And when I was teaching, I used to teach Greek myths to my kids and they would all love it. And I remember thinking, going, why is it that these stories, which are thousands of years old, resonate with a group of 11 year old kids in the 21st century in East London who are all addicted to their iPhones? But then you look at it and you look at, for instance, the story of Narcissus, the guy who falls in love with his own reflection in the lake and drowns in the lake. And you go, well, that could be about now.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean? Like with social media, the guy who just becomes so obsessed, he becomes one with social media until the point that it obliterates everything and he loses all his identity.

I wonder if that's the origin of it. I wonder if this is a repeating cycle. What if the Egyptians had social media? Like, what if those people had AI? What if they had everything that we think they didn't have because there's nothing left over because it all got absorbed by the Earth, and we're just making assumptions. What if it's a cycle? What if people get to a point where they figure out something amazing and then they fuck it up and become cave people again and have to rebuild over and over and over again?

That's the difference with AI, isn't it? Because up to. Up to that point, you go, all technology really does is amplifies our natural human nature in every way, right? The ancient Egyptians were jealous of their sister and fucking all of this shit. Right? But AI isn't human.

Right?

And that's where I think it gets interesting.

This is my craziest speculation, is that whenever I'm reading religious text, I'm always trying to figure out, okay, what was the original story? What were they documenting? Like, what were they trying to record and pass down what really happened? What really is the Book of Enoch all about? Have you told that for a thousand years before anybody bothered writing it down? And it gets translated, and who knows what it means? Who knows? What was the event? If Jesus is born of a virgin mother, what is more virgin than a computer? If our savior comes to us from a virgin mother and it's born out of this technology and it becomes some insanely intelligent, benevolent force in the world, and then the Muslims kill him, they bomb him. Or the Romans or whoever's in charge. Maybe it's the US Government this time. Yeah, maybe we kill him. Maybe. Maybe he just disrupts President Kamala's second term. They decided to nuke Jesus.

Have you ever been to the Middle East?

No. I've been to parts. I've been to Abu Dhabi, and I've been to Dubai.

What do you think?

You know, Abu Dhabi is very nice. It's incredible how much money they have, right? We did a UFC down there, and it was like, wow. Like, you just, like, realize, like, this is kind of crazy. Like, they have so much money and Dubai also. It's like, so much money. Every look is Ferraris and Bentleys and Rolls Royce is, like, kind of crazy. I have a friend who lived in Dubai for quite a while, and he's American, and he was saying, dude, you could leave a Rolex on the street and people would turn it in.

Yeah.

I'm like, really? Yeah. It's like, yeah. No one steals anything. There's no crime. But you have to. You know, you're run by a king.

Yeah. But it's interesting, with some of the Gulf countries now, they're so. They're moving forward at such a rapid rate culturally as well, you know, I Have a friend in Saudi who's a woman, she's like, super excited about the way things are going, you know.

Right. And this is the difference between Muslims and Islamists, what you were talking about.

Well, right, so if you talk to Emiratis, for example, right. There's nobody they hate more than the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood is like the central tumor. And Hamas, ISIS and whatever, they're like little metastatic treatments, basically. And the Muslim Brotherhood is the threat to them way more than it is even to us in the west. Because they, you know, I'm sure you've heard after a terrorist attack, everyone's like, well, actually, Muslims are the biggest victims of terrorist Islamist terrorism. It's true. Because what's happening in the Middle east is there's effectively a war between the people who want to live in a nation state, they want to live in Saudi Arabia, UAE, etc. Bahrain, whatever, and the people who want that to be one religious caliphate with Sharia law. That's what's happening. That's the battle. So those Muslim countries, they understand Islamist extremism way better than we do. Have you ever seen that video of the UAE foreign minister? He was talking in the, maybe 2000 and tens, maybe like 2012, something like that, maybe even earlier. And he basically predicts, he says, you in Europe don't understand what you're dealing with. And because of your bullshit, because of your political correctness, you are going to have terrorism and violence on your street.

He predicted all of it because they understand Islamist terrorism way better than we do. That's why, you know, people, you know, the Arab street is a different thing, but the people who are in power in those countries, they hate Hamas more than anyone. They hate, they, they hate Hamas more than anybody because they just go, these are the people that want to kill us, too.

And I think part of the problem as well is that we have, we have liberalism in our country. So we're saying, you know, it's a marketplace of ideas. We need to talk, we need to share. But what, what happens is then you've got an Islamic fundamentalist preaching, converting people to Islamism, and you go, our way of combating this simply isn't adequate. It isn't adequate to deal with this civilizational threat, which is what it is. And if you come from an Islamic background, you understand it far more because you are from a culture, you're from a similar culture. So you see what, effectively what this is, which is like a cancerous version of Islam. And so you're better able to understand It. And by being better able to understand it, you're far more able to tackle that problem.

One of the things that I find interesting about people that are very upset about the Gaza conflict is that they don't have anything to say about the Hamas executions that have been going on lately.

Right.

The public executions need a ladder.

Yeah.

Those public executions are fucking horrific, man. It's. It's wild to watch, you know? And I, unfortunately, have been sent some of the torture videos, too. They're breaking people's bones.

Yep.

And I don't know if they think these are guys that collaborated with Israel. Is that what the.

It's more of a power struggle.

Yeah.

Like, they want to reassert their authority. I mean, if you. If you think back to the Trump 21 point peace plan, the central point. Here you go, Joe.

I'm gonna get this one to work. Hang on. I'm stubborn.

I'm gonna.

I just don't know why it's not working, but go ahead.

So the original Trump 21 point peace plan, the central premise of that was, did Hamas disarm and Hamas people leave Gaza?

Right.

Right. And until you have that, you're not gonna have peace. Because this is what these people do.

Right.

The moment the fighting stops, they come out, they reassert the authority. They kill anyone who's not with them, and they, you know, they're going to attack Israelis, Israelis are going to attack back, and then we're back to where we started. The amazing thing President Trump has been able to achieve is getting the hostages out. That's fucking.

Yeah.

He deserves so much credit for that, boy.

Imagine what those fucking people have been through.

Oh, man.

I mean, I don't know if there's enough MDA in the world to help you get over that.

Two years.

Imagine two years of living with those. I mean, what did they do to them?

And they were being told a bunch of shit as well, I'm sure. Like, Israel has been destroyed, your families disowned. You like mental torture as well, I'm.

Sure, I'm sure, yeah.

Every day you wake up, you look at this guy and you're like, this guy would kill me in an instant. And not only would he feel. It's not that he would feel nothing. He would celebrate it. There's that horrific footage from October 7th where it was a Hamas terrorist killed 10 people. The first thing he did after slaughtering 10 people is he called his dad and was like, dad, look what. This is what I've done. And his dad was celebrating, and then he went, put mom on the phone. And then mom was on the phone and mom was celebrating. And you go, I think part of the problem when we talk about this conflict is, again, it goes back. We just don't understand that way of viewing the world. It's so utterly alien to us because we haven't been indoctrinated into that mindset.

We were all talking about Israel and the way Israel feels about Palestine in the green Room the other day, and we were like, just imagine if you lived in Israel and you're a Jew and everybody else hates you. All the people around you hate you. Like, do you know how tense that must be, how insane that relationship must be? And I'm not excusing anything they've done, but the idea that they would behave the way we behave is kind of ludicrous. Correct? It's kind of ludicrous.

We would behave the way they behave.

If they did that to us, we would do. If we lived in that environment. If Canada and Mexico were both, like, wanted us dead, you know, that's. If that was. If that was their goal ultimately, if their stated religious goal was the death of the United States, we would be crazy. We would be invading Canada every week. We'd be fucking Canada up all the time. We wouldn't want them to have weapons, we wouldn't want them to have government, we wouldn't want them to have anything.

And we wouldn't be talking about a ceasefire, we'd be talking about dealing with the threat.

Yeah, right, yeah, we would talk about. I mean, look, all we did was differ with them economically. And Trump tried to turn them into a state, he said. I called him Governor Trudeau first. I was just joking. Then a lot of people told me it was a good idea. Yeah, I think that single handedly ruined Canada. Yeah, that idea. I mean, that's the Republican Party or their version of the Conservative Party. They were on the way out, they were fucked up and all of a sudden the whole country united because Trump's trying to turn him into a state.

Polly has got to be angry about that shit, man.

He has to be so mad. He was logical and reasonable and everybody's like, let's try that for a while.

Do you know what? That was the ultimate cock block. Do you know what I mean? You're in the bar, it's about to happen with the girl, it's going down, it's going down. You're like, I'm so back. Yeah, I'm so gonna get laid. Trump pops up, whispers something in her ear. And all of a sudden, it's fucking over.

You know, he's gay. He's definitely gay.

You can trust him.

But coming back to your point about people not talking about the Hamas executions, one thing I also noticed is a lot of people weren't. Didn't seem to be happy there was a ceasefire, the very ones that had been calling for one.

Well, they didn't want Trump to do it. That's why they didn't want Trump to get credit for anything. So if there's a ceasefire, like, no one's given him any credit for all the other conflicts that he stopped as well. You know, there's been a bunch in Africa and just people that have been feuding for decades, and he's put a stop to that. Now, whether or not it sticks, that's another thing. The Israel one didn't stick. Didn't stick very long. I mean, what happened? So someone blew over. They drove over unexploded munitions, and then they thought it was an attack by Hamas. And then they started bombing again. Right.

What I read is there was an RPG fired at a Israeli vehicle. But you might have a. I think.

That was the initial story. Okay, that's what they thought.

Oh, so it's changed?

Yes.

Okay.

I think they thought somewhat that these Israeli, The IDF soldiers drove over this.

Unexploded munitions, and they saw some dude and they were like, he did it.

I think someone blamed someone else for it. I think there was confusion or something along those lines. See if you can find what that story is. I don't know what the exact story was, but they started bombing again and they killed a bunch of people.

And there's also a lot of mistrust. Like, you know, I was saying the Arab nations in the region, they hate Hamas. They also don't trust Netanyahu. That's also a fact. They don't trust Netanyahu. And you know Netanyahu, I mean, you talk about what Israelis feel like. Think about what it's like. The first question I asked him, what is it like to be a leader of a country that is attacked in the way that you were on October 7th? Imagine the trauma that leaves. And you're responsible, right? You're responsible for 10 million people, and this happens.

Did you ask him why it took so long for them to respond?

No, we didn't ask him that. No.

It was quite a few hours.

It was a few hours. My understanding from people, we had the former director of Mossad, and we asked him about that, and he just. I mean, there are a lot of people who are very critical of the Israeli top brass. The way it went down, I think there was a lot of confusion from what I understand, like contradictory orders being given. People didn't really know what was going on. That's basically what I heard.

Was there a stand down order?

I don't know.

We've also spoken to other military experts who actually say, look, it doesn't look good. But one of the things is it's very difficult to mobilize forces instantaneously.

Yeah.

And soldiers instantaneously organize, get them out even under emergency. Right.

But wouldn't you think in Israel, which is one of the most sophisticated security states in the world, that they would be ready for something like that a lot quicker than any other country because they're constantly under attack?

You'd think they would have a fence that was permanently monitored. And they clearly fucked up very badly.

It's crazy. If you look at their fence versus Egypt's fence. Yeah, the Egypt friends, it's wild. Like, people don't like to talk about that. No, that one's wild.

Yeah.

Well, this is one of the reasons that a lot of the other countries in the region, you know, they don't support Israel killing Palestinians, obviously, but they're also not. They just save your Jordanian. Right, Right. A lot of the population in Jordan is Palestinian. And what happened when they had a large population of Palestine? They killed the fucking king. Right. So this is the difficulty of it. Like, this is a highly radicalized population. And, you know, that's why it's such a difficult concept to resolve. And like you say the Israelis are on edge because they have to be. They're surrounded by people who've invaded their country repeatedly.

Yeah. Like, what is the best case scenario for how this all ends? That's what the problem is. Everybody who prognosticates, everybody who likes, like, looks at the future, no one has a version of this where it's like, oh, it worked out great.

Yeah. Well, Jared Kushner, I think he's clearly a genius. I mean, orchestrating the Abraham Accords in the first Trump term. He's involved in it now. And his thing, as I understand it, is basically this. The Middle east has a very different demographic to most Western countries. A shit ton of young people. Very, very young people. And the leaders of those countries know that they've got two choices. Either they create jobs, meaning purpose, economic prosperity, or all these young men are going to go the wrong direction. So they're desperately trying to create thriving economies so that their youth don't feel the need to fight their grandfather's war. And as I understand it, the Kushner approach has been, what you do is you find a way to address the fighting so it's not happening, and then you just lock the entire region into economic cooperation because the UAE wants to trade with Israel, the Saudis want to trade with Israel. And the other reason is they have a common enemy, which is Iran. All the other countries, particularly the Gulf countries, they fear Iran a lot more than they fear Israel a lot more than they care about Israel.

Iran is their number one problem. Problem. It's a threat to them. And so if you can get the entire Middle east, other than Iran, maybe Qatar, I don't know, together, working together, they don't then have the incentive to continue this conflict because they're trading. They've got way more to lose by this continuing. So that's the end goal. The difficulty is as long as Hamas is in power, I mean, they did October 7th to prevent that from happening. Happening. Basically, they wanted to derail the long term aspiration for peace, and Iran wanted them to do that because Iran doesn't want those countries to work together.

And didn't it happen right after Biden had released like $6 billion to Iran?

Right?

Yeah, right.

Now they've got funding, right?

Yeah, and, yeah, in Iran funds.

What a great idea.

Well, and Iran funds all of these organizations, all these, Hezbollah, Hamas. So Iran is essentially, their plan is destabilization of the region.

And then if you go to the history of Iran, you find out that they got fucked by what was it the British oil company? What oil company was it where they wanted to nationalize their oil because they realized they were getting fucked. And so the king is like, hey, no, this is our oil. And all of a sudden the United States comes along and Britain comes along, they go, let's kick this fucking guy out of here and install some sort of religious caliphate and let's get the party rolling. And they fucked the entire country up. Like, if you see Iran from, like the 1960s, women are wearing miniskirts and everybody looks like they're having a good time. It looks like a normal European city, right?

Yeah.

And then the crazies come in and you've got this, you know, seventh century shit going on.

Oil companies, yeah, they don't give up. They're just trying to make that loot. And if they can make that loot and ruin a country, they're like, okay, yeah, who cares?

Yeah. But I hope that they've. Maybe they haven't but you just look at the misery and bloodshed.

Like they feel bad.

No, I hope they feel bad.

I hope the Ayatollah just wakes up one day and goes, ah, I've been a bad guy.

Did you see.

Did you see one of the Iranian leaders, the wedding? Wedding?

No.

Did you see the wedding?

No.

So this has created a huge storm in Iran because obviously they have the morality police where people and men literally go around and look at women and go, right, you need to have your hair covered, you need to have the. Your skirt needs to be down here. And if not, we're going to arrest you, we're going to beat you up, we're going to do all of these things.

Let me guess, his daughter was wearing a beautiful white dress, mate.

She had the mouth she hate.

Look at that. You can go to jail for that.

That does not look very halal to me, mate.

It does to me though. Yeah. Fucking hell.

Iranian women are beautiful.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. They're incredible.

That's what's even more fucked. You got a great gene pool over there. It's being stifled.

But the Persians are a great civilization. If you look at the history. They're incredible people.

Incredible wrestlers too.

Yeah, yeah.

Long history of elite wrestlers come out of Iran. Yeah, it's crazy, man.

Yeah. So that's the hope. That's the hope is economic development.

Right.

And if you can get people trading. And that's the idea, well, bring people.

Out of desperation, you stop crime everywhere. I mean, we should have done that in the United States. States long ass time ago. Yeah, we definitely should have figured out how to do that with Mexico, you know, but we're a bunch of haters. We don't want them doing well over there. We don't compete with Mexico economically that.

You know, we had. He was a guest on your show, actually. Yo. And Grillo.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And we, and I never realized this, but Yoan was like, you know, there's a trade going on between Mexico and the United States. I was like, what do you mean? He was like, well, drugs come over one way and the Americans give their guns, come over the other way.

Yep. Yeah. I had Mariana Van Zeller on from Traffic. Yeah, she actually followed the how the lapd, the corrupt cops from the lapd, confiscate guns, sell guns to the gang members. The gang members then take those guns and drive into Mexico with them. Because you can get into Mexico easy. They don't care. Come on in.

Right.

But leaving Mexico where it's get hard so they sell the Guns drive back over empty trunk. Everybody's happy.

Do you think you boys are going to start some shit with Venezuela?

I hope not.

It seems like it looks like it's going in that direction, blowing up them boats.

Soon after the explosion of Rafah, I'm told by Secure Familiar, the White House and Pentagon knew the incident was caused by an Israeli settler bulldozer running over unexploded ordinance, contradicting Netanyahu's claim that Hamas had popped up from tunnels. This is Ryan Grimm, who's a journalist. After Netanyahu said he was blocking all aid from entering Gaza in response and unleashed a bombing campaign, the administration conveyed to Israel that they know what happened. Netanyahu then announced he would reopen the crossings in a few hours.

Right.

Fuck, man.

Yeah.

So this is what happens in a war, right? Everyone's fucking on edge, something blows up, they think we're under attack, and it all starts again.

The worst suspicions are that Netanyahu wants this war to continue because that's how.

He stays in power, because of the corruption stuff. Right.

That's what Clinton said openly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's. That gets real fucking scary.

Yeah.

Do you think that's true?

I don't know, man. I don't know enough about geopolitics. I don't. I certainly don't know enough about this conflict. But, you know, I know that there's a lot of people that are suspicious of it, which is why a lot of people are suspicious about why it took so long to answer with October 7th.

Oh, is that. That's why you were asking?

No, I want to know why it took so long if you asked him, because it does seem like a long time.

Yeah.

You know, I'm not accusing anybody of anything, but a lot of people are. You know, that's a thing that people bring up on the Internet all the time. Like, why did it take so long for them to respond? Was this a known thing that was going to happen? They allowed it to happen. So now they have a reason where Netanyahu stays in power. A war gets.

I find that hard to imagine.

It's a horrific notion if it is true. It's absolutely horrific. It's horrific that we could even consider that a human being who's running a country would allow their citizens to die. And I'm not saying they did, but we do know that people have done that in the past. You know, false flags are. That is a legitimate strategy for an unwilling populace to be entertained into going to war. I mean, that's what they were trying to do with Operation Northwoods. Operation Northwoods, which was signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. They were trying to get people to support a war with Cuba. And so what they did was they were gonna, they were gonna blow up a drone jetliner, blame it on the Cubans. They were gonna arm Cuban friendly and fuck up Guantanamo Bay. And they were going to say, okay, this is it, Cuba's attacked, we have to attack back. And then next thing you know, we're at war with Cuba. And that was signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. That was a full on plan that was vetoed by Kennedy.

Right, wow.

Yeah.

Which is.

So we know that. We also know that Gulf of Tonkin incident in Vietnam, false flag. So we know that people have done stuff before where they either have allowed something to happen like Pearl harbor or they have just, you know, they've just capitalized on it. You have to figure out which one is which.

Right? I mean, World War II started with a false flag. You know this, right?

Yeah.

The Gleiwitz incident, which one was that? So they basically, in order to justify the invasion of Poland, Hitler pretended that Polish soldiers had crossed the border and killed people in Germany. And that was their pretense for attacking.

Well, he also burned the Reichstag too, right? Didn't he blame other people on that?

Yeah, I don't know that. I know that for a fact. I'm maybe just not educated enough about that one. But the Gliwitz incident, they basically set it up so that it looked like the Poles had invaded.

Didn't Nero do that too? Didn't he burn Rome and blame other people for that as well?

That I don't know. The story is that he fiddled whilst Rome burned.

Did use perplexity to find out if Nero did that. Did he use. Did he burn part of Rome?

Might as well do the Reichstag as well, because I want to.

Yeah, let's do that as well. Because I think that's just a common tactic for assholes. Yeah, I know someone's an asshole in.

Control of a government, but I think letting 4,000 jihadis invade your country and rape and slaughter and butcher people, that to me is beyond the realm of.

Imagination, of course, as is 9, 11. But there's a lot of kooky people that believe that that was allowed to happen as well.

Do you know, for the longest time I thought that Trade Center 7, that was like a big question mark. But my friend Winston Marshall, he sent me a video that like explains it very well for the. I hadn't seen a good explanation of it, but it kind of. It made a lot of sense to me.

Well, it doesn't happen all at once. That's one common misconception. You can watch the video. The top collapses inside the building a couple minutes before it all goes.

That's right. That's right.

Yeah. And I think I want my fucking money back from where I built that thing, that's for sure. I'd be like, bro, you guys cut some fucking corners or something. Whatever your plan had that you had to keep this thing stable. Nero's role in the myth, contrary to popular myth, is no credible evidence that Nero started the fire. He was in the antium when it broke out and returned to coordinate emergency measures such as opening public spaces for radio refugees and importing food. The image of Nero fiddling while Rome burns is a later invention. The fiddle did not exist at the time. Of course, fiddled doesn't mean like a fiddle. This is like AI being literal. Yeah, means fiddle around. And while like fiddle spinners you. And while some sources claim he sang about the fall of Troy during the fire, this account is disputed and likely part of political smear campaign. Who the fuck knows? You're dealing with too many years ago with this kind of. But either way, false flags are a real thing. Sure, yeah. That's why people get real suspicious.

Yeah, but a lot of the. Sorry, go ahead.

No, I was thinking, but is there not a part of you that just goes, eventually the truth comes out, you know what I mean? Eventually. Well, especially in. In a country as small as Israel, which is tiny.

Well, look at jfk. I mean that's. The truth has not come out about that. We're all like still trying to figure that out. And they were talking in this election like there's gonna be a thing. We're released the JFK files. Oh great. We're finally gonna know. Nothing. There's nothing.

So why do you think that is? Why has that not been? Is it? Cuz there's nothing there. And what we're told is what happened is what happened.

Trump's own words were, if they showed you what they showed me, you wouldn't release it either.

Wow.

What the fuck does that mean?

Probably means the government assassinated Kennedy.

Well, Kennedy was the government.

Well, I mean the CIA, I mean the deep state or whatever it was at the time, whoever it was. I mean, there's my friend Evan Hafer from Black Rifle Coffee. He has a theory of his own about Kennedy pulling out air support from Bay of Pigs and that without air Support that operation could never be effective. And a bunch of people are going to die that shouldn't have died. And a bunch of those guys that were on that beach lost brothers, and they were hardcore, like serious soldiers. And you get those guys to kill Kennedy. That's interesting, as revenge, because it was a very coordinated event. If. If it went the way the, you know, Oliver Stones of the world think it went, which I think. I tend to think he's, like, pretty accurate. I think he's. I think he knows what happened roughly. And there's multiple people shooting at the same time. And this should never be allowed to be a path where you're on a convertible with a fucking president. There's bushes, and people can hide behind the bushes. You don't. You don't have it sussed out. You didn't. Like, you didn't scan the bushes and make sure there's nobody with a rifle there.

Like, the whole thing's nuts. You would never set it up that way if you were the Secret Service.

Well, see, the obvious counter argument to that, in my head, I'm just playing the argument out with you. I don't know anything is what happened to Trump, right?

Well, that's not a counterargument, because the Trump thing is easily the same story. If that kid's a better shot, that kid's a better shot. You have a dead president and you have Patsy, maybe, who knows? You have some kid who was in a BlackRock commercial two years prior who somehow or another has a professionally scrubbed apartment. So they find his apartment, it doesn't have any silverware in it. After he's dead, they cremate him within days. There's no toxicology report, no autopsy. There's no information on the kid. He has no social media. What fucking kids have no social media? He has three different phones. Why does he have three different phones? Why is there metadata from a phone outside of D.C. outside of where the FBI office is traveling back and forth to this kid multiple times? Why is he training, you know, in, like this, these very technical gun ranges where people are doing, like, tactical training and stuff like that? Like, what is this guy doing? Like, who's. Who's getting him to do this? Why is he doing this? You think he really has knowledge that this thing is going to go down in Butler?

Why are they allowing this guy to walk around the grounds with a range finder 30 minutes before the event? Why is he. He. He's seen. How does he get on the roof? How do they not have someone on the roof? How do they not. Like there's a lot of weirdness to it. Why is it the first one of those things that they're televising live on cnn? There's a lot of weird ones.

So, yeah, it's not a counter argument. In fact, it backs up the point.

Yeah, not only does it back up the point, like the kid just sucked. He missed. You know, I don't know what kind of a sight he had on his rifle at the very. He might have had a red dot, but he definitely didn't have like a good long range scope. It looks like from the. The video or the images of the rifle that I've seen laying on the rooftop. If he had a really good scope and he was a good shot, that's an easy shot. It's only 150 yards, I think, from that roof, which is also preposterous that you would allow a person to climb onto a roof than 150 yards of a guy who's a very controversial figure who's running for president. It's nuts. The whole thing's nuts.

You know, we interviewed a guy called Michael Francis, who's a former head of one of the big crime families.

I think he was head of.

Was he not head or.

He was senior.

He's very senior.

He was a big guy.

Big guy. And he said when it comes to jfk, he said at the time in the mob, there was a joke where they would say, oh, we shot the wrong Kennedy. And he said that it was mob related.

Yeah, it could have been. Yeah, it could have been. I mean, yeah, it could have been multiple different shooters from multiple different organizations. I don't think Lee Harvey Oswald was innocent. You know, people like Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. Like that doesn't have to be the case. He might have actually even shot at Kennedy. He might have been one of the guys who shot at Kennedy. I think they had him set up to be the guy that takes the blame. Whether or not he actually pulled the trigger. He might have. I'm not opposed to the idea that he might have what? I am opposed to the ideas of one single shooter causing all that damage because it's illogical. It's not just illogical. It was created because they had to account for a bullet that hit the underpass. So bullet ricocheted off one of the curb stones in the underpass and fucked this guy up. And so they found the curb that had been chipped. This guy got wounded. He got hit with a ricochet. He got treated in the hospital. So they know that was one bullet. So now they have to. Two bullets. One is a headshot, and one goes through Kennedy's body and into Connally's body.

The problem with that is Kennedy reacts to a gunshot before Connolly ever does. Because Connally wasn't hitting. Connolly was hit afterwards. Connolly was hit after. Kennedy was shot in the neck, and then he was shot in the back, and then he was shot in the head. Kennedy was shot multiple times. The one in the neck, he grabs his neck. In the beginning of the video, there's a different. There's two different depictions of what that is. There's the Dallas hospital where they take him right after the shooting, where they say it's an entry wound. And then in Bethesda, Maryland, they say it's a tracheotomy. Right Wound, like they gave. They trached him, which is preposterous. He's no head. His head's missing. You put a trach pipe on a guy that does his half, his fucking head's missing and he's dead as fuck. No, you didn't. No, it's a fucking entry wound. You see him grab his neck. He got shot in the neck. And it looks to me like his head was shot at the very least one time from the front, at the very least one time. But it might have been. His head might have got hit by two bullets at the same time.

I mean, there's people shooting at him. I think there was multiple people shooting him from different directions. And he does have a wound in his back. He has an entry wound in his back, so someone probably shot him in the back, too. It might have been Oswald. Oswald might have shot him in the back. But I think the backing to the left and the people that all called out that said that there was people firing behind them in the grassy knoll. I bet that's correct. The whole way that they drove. You ever been to Dealey Plaza?

No.

It's small. It's real weird. And it's a. There's a turn. Like, you have to make this turn. Like, if you were a sniper, you couldn't ask for a better place to set up. Because this guy is going 30 miles an hour or on this stupid little turn and coming straight at you, and you're just sitting there in the bushes. You could peck him off. You could peck him. The people that say that he couldn't shoot him from the windowsill. It's too hard of a shot. He wasn't a good marksman. Shut the fuck up. Anybody could do that. I could show you how to do that and you could do that in my. I talked to my friend Andy Stump. I was talking about it on the podcast. I was said, give Andy a day. And he goes, fuck a day. He goes, give me a couple hours. I could teach you how to do that. It's not that hard with a good rifle. What about this J.D. tippett? Yeah. It seems like Lee Harvey Oswald killed this cop. So it seems like when Lee Harvey Oswald was taking off, he had an altercation with his cop and he shot the cop four times.

Yeah, well, that's why I think. I don't think Lee Harvey Oswald was innocent. I think he was in on it, but I think he was the setup, he was the patsy, and they were going to have him go down for it. Whether or not he actually killed Kennedy, he might have. Look, if he shot him in the back, if that one shot from the back was. Was Lee Harvey Oswald, maybe that would have killed Kennedy. Maybe that was the one that killed him or would have killed him before the headshot. But he was hit multiple times.

Do you know what, when you read about Kennedy and then you saw the, you know, the attempted assassination of Trump, it makes you realize just how, how fragile societies are. Like, how different would our world be if, for instance, Kennedy survived and. Or Trump hadn't and vice versa, you know? Do you know what I mean?

Oh, yeah.

Do you know, like, I remember someone asked me that question. It was like, what do you think would have happened?

Yeah.

If. If the bullet had have been in The Trump's case, 2 inches further towards the right, Whatever it was, you know, how different would our society be right now?

Very, very different. Very different.

Would it be the beginning of a civil war?

Who knows? It could have. Everything could have popped off. And on top of that, who would be president? Right. Would they suspend the presidential elections and allow the Republicans to come up with a new viable candidate? Would JD Vance run for president? How would they do it? Who would be the representative of the Republicans? Would they suspend the election entirely? Would, you know, they do something where Kamala just gets sworn in by the then President Biden? Who knows? I don't know.

This is why I think political polarization of the kind we've seen is so scary because I mean, the thing that really struck me when Charlie was assassinated was this was always possible.

Yeah.

And the only reason it wasn't happening is we kind of had a culture of like, we don't do this basically. Right. Because anyone can pick up a rifle in this country and that's Why? I really worry about the fact that people think political violence is justified.

Not just justified, but celebrated. Yeah, that was the creepy part. The creepy part was the celebration. The people that were celebrating. Some lady recently just lost her job because people were driving by, she was doing a no Kings protest, and she started mocking getting shot in the neck. And she was a school teacher. Yeah. Elementary school teacher.

Yeah.

Fucking crazy people. There's a lot of crazy people out there. And some of the. I mean, people are, you know, they're correct in worrying about the impact that these people have on their children. You're correct. You have a lot of crazy people that are teaching your kids.

I know so many people now who are homeschooling. To be honest, it's something I'm thinking about.

It's not a bad idea. I mean, the problem socially is, like, kids need to hang out together. It's really important.

I worry about that too.

Yeah. But I mean, I think you could probably replace that with sports and good friends, especially if you lived in a community where multiple people were homeschooling. But then, you know, people get weirded out about homeschooling because they think it's gonna. Oh, that leads to religious radicals.

You know, you don't have to be.

Religious to homeschool people in this country. People connected to religious Christians, like radical Christianity.

I just don't want some 25 year old blue hair teaching my son that communism is brilliant.

Exactly.

Can I not have that?

And the weird one is people that have no desire to have children of their own, you know, and they want to indoctrinate people's kids into their way of thinking. It's like a part of why they teach.

You know, it's because they're so. This is. I was. We were having this conversation yesterday and I said to Constantine, the great thing about an ideology is it gives you certainty. The terrible thing about an ideology is.

It gives you certainty.

That is so true. And it's also the appealing thing about it.

Oh, yeah.

You know, I've always been attracted to the idea that these people, like, really believe. Like, it's fascinating when I watch, like, super religious people that are praying five times a day and I'm like, like, that is amazing. Like, look how dedicated they are to that thing. Like you. There's an attractiveness to that. Like, God, I wish I was like, if I was that dedicated to something, I'd probably be, like, way more stable in my life.

Yeah.

You know, because you're just locked in and everybody believes. And, you know, you see People talking about the religion with utmost certainty. Like, I was that certain.

Yeah.

Wish I was that certain. Those guys are so certain they're willing to die.

Like, it also, it also gives you like a lot of inner peace. It does. Like if you don't have that, which I don't. And I, I've got a friend who's, who's a devout Muslim and he's, and he's going through tough times at the moment and I say to him, like, how do you get through this? And he's like, bro, I've got my religion, I've got God and I know everything's going to be okay. He's a great guy. And he goes, I pray five times a day. It really helps me. And it makes me realize and understand that what I'm going through is part of his plan. It's part of his plan.

Yeah. If you really do believe that, it definitely will help you.

I haven't got there, but I have started going to church every now and again.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you enjoy it?

I love it.

Yeah. It's about, I do too. It's a bunch of people that are going to try to make their lives better. They're trying to be a better person and they're trying to, I mean, for me at least, the place that I go to, they, they read and analyze passages in the Bible. I'm really interested in what these people were trying to say because I don't think it's nothing. There's a lot of atheists and secular people that just like to dismiss Christianity as being foolish. It's just fairy tales. I hear that amongst self professed intelligent people, it's a fairy tale. I don't know if that's true. I think there's more to it. I think it's history, but I think it's a confusing history. It's a confusing history because it was a long time ago. And it's people telling things in an oral tradition and writing things down in a language that you don't understand in the context of a culture that you don't understand. And I think there's something to what they're saying. I think there's a reason why they all have a flood myth. I think there's a reason they all have a very similar story of catastrophic floods and chaos.

And then that jives with what geologists are finding and what these people are finding that are exploring the younger Dryas impact theory that there was, there was floods, massive enormous amounts of water that are instantaneously released from melting Ice caps all over the world because of comet impacts. Like it happened. There's evidence, physical evidence of this happening. And I think that's what they're trying to say in these stories. I just think it's so confusing. It's so confusing because you're dealing with a time so long ago. We talk about how different people live today on Earth, but way more similar today than we would be reacting or interacting with a society that existed 6,000 years ago. Like, what, what are we even talking about? Like, what is that? Like, what is the world like? Then? What is, what is discourse like? Like what is, what rules are there? What, what, what protections do you have against being robbed and stolen from? And how often is war? You know, what is life like back then? It's nuts. And so you're writing things down on animal skins frantically and hiding them in clay, clay jars and qumran. And like, I hope somebody finds this someday.

And then thousands of years later someone does. They find these ancient fucking scrolls and they pull them out and they're, they're versions of stories from the Bible. So these people have been telling these same stories for thousands of years. Like, well, okay, what were they trying to say? That's what's interesting to me. I don't think it's nothing.

No, no.

I think there's something to it and there's a reason why it resonates with people. And Christianity in particular is the most fascinating to me because there's this one person that everybody agrees existed that somehow or another had the best plan for how human beings should interact with each other and behave and was the best example of it, and even died in a non violent way. Didn't even protest, died on the cross, supposedly far sins. Like it's a fascinating story. What does it represent though? That's the real thing. What was that like? What happened? Who was Jesus Christ? If it was a human being, what was that? That's wild.

Well, Jordan's idea, as I understand it, is that the point of the story, if you like, is it's about voluntary self sacrifice. It's about the fact that to have a good society, people have to be willing to sacrifice something of themselves for others. And that's what Jesus is. And that story is supposed to inspire in all of us.

But it's a historical human being too though. Yeah, it's a historically documented human being. That's where it gets weird because there's a, there's a universal depiction of what this human being was like that doesn't seem to vary. That Much between all the people that knew him. That gets weird.

You know, you. And if you go to Jerusalem, you can go to the Garden of the Gethsemane. And for those people who don't know that's where Jesus was arrested by the Roman soldiers, it still exists. You can go there 2,000 years later and you just literally walk around this place. You're just like, my God. Like, the connection to those stories, it's just, it's right there. And also, I think the lessons that you learn from going to church are incredibly profound. Something as simple. So I was raised Catholic, as you know, they'd say, peace be upon you, you towards the end. Let's show each other a sign of peace.

Yeah.

And you literally shake hands with the person next to you. Right. You don't know this person. You may have never met them, but you shake hands with the person behind, in front and whatever else.

Yeah.

What an incredibly profound gesture that is. Just to shake hands with someone and all your anger and all your resentment and everything you feel, which is natural and jealousy, and you go, and. But you make a literal physical connection with another human being.

Be.

That is so powerful.

Yeah. And if you don't have something to believe in, you don't. There's not a thing that you follow that you believe is making you be a better version of yourself, be a better person. If you're just relying on your whims and your, you know, whatever you think is the moral thing to do, you know, then you know what you got. You get those people that are unable to answer the question of whether or not you should protect an unborn fetus, whether or not they have human rights. No, no, no, they don't. They just. Oh, they just. Like, that's what you get. That's what you get when you have no religion.

Yeah.

If you have religion, you go, wow, that's a good question. That's a very good question.

And it's. It's also as well, you know, when we look at the new atheist movement and that's something that I wrote followed, you know, Dawkins and all these kind of people who pointed out the ridiculousness of certain religions, etc, etc, and then we don't need religion. I think that's fundamentally inaccurate. I think human beings need religion.

I don't know if you need it, but it definitely can help.

But I think societies need it.

Yeah, but I don't. I just think it's silly to dismiss all these stories as being useless.

Totally.

I just, I think they were trying to say something Right. And I don't know what that something is, but the deeper you dive into it, the more interesting it gets.

Yeah. Well, last time we had Richard on the show, if you remember, we kind of pushed him on this.

Yeah.

And his aunt, as far as we could get, is he was like, well, you know, maybe it's a. It's a story that's useful, but it's still not true. And I'm going, well, if it's useful, maybe we should hang on to it for a little bit. You know, do we want to throw away something that's useful because we're so fixated on literal truth when this is a. Perhaps a metaphor or something.

Right.

Yeah.

You know, so, yeah, I've kind of moved on on that. I was. You know, I used to love all that new atheist stuff.

Me, too. But a lot of those guys fell apart. And all those guys get real persnickety.

You don't.

They don't seem very enlightened, seem like they're at peace. Which is interesting, you know, because that's the true Christians that I've met. And I've met some, like, legitimate, like, very charitable kind Christians. They're some of the happiest and kindest people I've ever met.

And that's born out in the. In the statistics as well. However, I will say this, though. Right. And I think this is worth. Like, the best people I've ever met are Christians, but also some of the worst people I've met.

Oh, sure.

You know what I mean?

Well, there's a real issue in Texas where there's these very wealthy guys that are trying to. They succeeded in getting the Ten Commandments put in every public school, but they essentially want Texas to be a theocracy. They're nutters.

Right.

They're out on the fringe. You know, they're firing brimstone type. Jesus is coming. Like, them folks. Those folks are real, too. And that scares the shit out out of me because, like, I was talking to Ron White about that. Like, Ron White's a Southern guy, been here his whole life. Like, he's like, be careful. Them really crazy Christians, because don't think they're like regular Christians. He's right. There's. You get to the fringe where, you.

Know, and it's the same with other religions. This is not specific to Christians.

Yep, yep. It's fun. It's nutters. It's just nutters. Whether they're nutters as a Mormon or nutters as a Baptist, just. They're just nutters. They're crazy people that take things to the utmost degree.

Do you remember, do you remember Richard Pryor and Live at the Sunset Strip where he was talking about being in jail and he talked about meeting Islamic fundamentalists. He called them double Muslims.

Oh, Richard Pryor.

And that's why there's so, so much info. If you ever seen that Emo Phillips bit about the. The bridge. He.

Really.

You're gonna love this.

What is it about?

It's about he meets a guy who's about to jump off a bridge and he starts talking to him and he realizes there's a lot of similarities. But I'm not gonna do it justice if Jamie can play it. Ema Phillips. Oh, you know, sorry, sorry.

Can we not play it? That's. I don't. That's a four minute bit of someone else's. Yeah, we'll get in trouble. Yeah, I'll listen to it afterwards. We can wrap this up.

It's one of the best jokes.

What are you guys doing tonight? You hanging out?

Yeah, yeah.

Come to the club.

Sure. Let's party.

Let's go.

Hey, it's always a pleasure. It's really great to see you guys. I know I'm trying to get you to leave this your shitty country and come to America, but I really do hope you win over there and fix that place. I always loved England. It's an awesome place to visit and I, you know, I think you got what you guys do and having these conversations I really do think is important. I think it's important for the whole world, but I think it's really important for England.

Well, it's, you know, the way we feel about it is it's our country, man, and we don't want to run away.

I get it.

You know, we love it. We love our country. We want to live. You know, you talk about loving and we love England the same way you guys do.

If the United States was California, I would have done the same.

Right.

You know, but it's not right. It's like an escape. So I escaped. But yeah, I would have felt the same way. Like staying sorted out.

Yeah.

And I'm try, at least try until. Until it gets real bad.

I mean, we're about to get wealth taxes by all accounts, right? So that's. That's the next level.

Well, look on the bright side. You got digital ID now, so.

Yeah, we're looking forward to that one.

Trigonometry. It's available everywhere. It's a great show. I love you guys.

Always great to see you. Thanks.

Appreciate you brother.

Appreciate you, too. Thanks. Bye. Bye, everybody. It.