Transcript of Episode #123 Featuring Dr. Jin-Xiong She! Inside the mind of a world renowned NAD+ EXPERT! Everything you need to know about NAD+!! New

All right, everybody. Welcome back to the Dylan Gemelli Podcast. So I always say this, and it's a fact. I am one of the most blessed individuals on the planet because of the people that I get to speak to and learn from and the minds that I talk to that have so much wealth of information. And today, just sit back, get your popcorn out, and get ready because you are about to have someone unload information on you on one of my favorite topics, which is NAD+. But he's got far more going than that, and he has helped me in a variety of ways on just a few phone calls. He's got an extensive blood panel he just ran on me that we're gonna go through and he's gonna fix me up a little bit, but I'm gonna give him a short intro. I can't really do this man justice. You're gonna see right away at the brilliance and we're gonna have a phenomenal conversation. So he is a PhD, he's a leading geneticist, he's a biomedical researcher, and he is the founder and CEO of Jinfinity Precision Medicine. And I can tell you because I've been using Jinfinity a little over a month now, and we're gonna talk about some of those products.

This is one of the best brands that I've ever encountered. And I don't say that lightly 'cause I've been doing this 20 years. He's got over 40 years of academic research experience, and right now he's focusing on aging biology and intracellular NAD metabolism. I'm gonna just drain him for information today. So my friends, welcome my new good friend, Dr. Xin Zhongxi.

Thank you very much, Dennis. It's my pleasure to be with you. Good day.

Thank you for coming to see me, Dr. Jin. And let me just say this, I appreciate and value the conversations that I've had with you. You've been so kind to me, given me the amount of time on my own personal blood work and also the education that I desire. Because as you and I know, I think one of the most polarizing topics in all of really health, I don't want to say just biohacking, is NAD+.

Absolutely.

First of all, I want to talk to you about how long you've been studying NAD+ and why, what drew you to kind of, because you have such an abundant amount of research, why NAD+?

I have been studying NAD+ in particular for the last 8 years or so. So, about 8 years ago, I just got into longevity and anti-aging for somewhat selfish reason. You know, I'm 64 years old this year. And I was, like many people, not getting younger. And I said, "No, this is not the right way to age." And I wanted to reverse the process and do much better. Yeah. The problem that we have today is, yeah, we are living longer, but we are not living healthier. And the healthspan, or the number of years that we are free of major diseases, has actually shortened in the last, at least a couple of decades, even though we are living on average much longer. So the problem is we are are not adopting healthy lifestyle. Our food supply is depleted of micronutrients. We really have to reverse this process so we can live not only longer, but much, much better and healthier. That's what I wanted to do for myself. I said, well, if I can help myself, maybe one day I can help others. As a scientist, what I do is I have studied the literature, many, many papers that have been published.

And I want you to use my expertise, which is in biomarkers. And I spent 40 years to discover new biomarkers and also to implement biomarker testing in a clinical setting. I have gone through thousands and thousands of potential biomarkers for longevity, and I came up with 10 most important biomarkers that we really have to test. But many of them were not available for patients or consumers. Guess what? NAD+ came to the very top of the list.

Okay.

So, why NAD? I mean, you know enough about NAD, your audience also knows enough about NAD. But that's because NAD is such an important molecule. It's involved in the function of over 500 different enzymes. That's how important it is. We can talk a little more about what are the most important functions. And the second problem is with, as we age and also as we, our health deteriorates, the NAD+ level goes down, declines with age and with health status. Most people only know that NAD+ is deficient in older people, but they forget that unhealthy individuals or individuals with certain health conditions are also very deficient in NAD+. Even if they are very young, as young as 2-year-old, 3-year-old.

Wow.

They can be very deficient. So, our demand for NAD+ goes up as we age, but the supply of the building blocks for our cells to make NAD+ actually goes down. So, you have a demand and supply imbalance. That's why supplementing for NAD+ is absolutely required as we age, as our health also become less healthy.

So, it's inevitable that NAD+ levels are going to decline as we age. At a certain point, it's just, it's just going to happen no matter what.

Yeah. So, we have tested almost 100,000 people.

Mm-hmm.

And in adults, over the age of 30. I only have 2 individuals, 2 individuals who are not taking NAD supplement or any kind of NAD treatment and they have optimal levels of NAD. Wow. 2 out of tens of thousands of people.

Why is it that it took all this time for people to really start understanding and talk about it? Because, I mean, I've been in the health space for 15, 20 years and I really, I knew about it a little bit earlier than I think it was more mainstream, but honestly not a lot.

NAD+ is not really new. NAD+ has been used in clinical service for at least 4 decades.

Really?

Yeah. And NAD+ is actually approved drug to treat heart failure in China. Wow. Decades ago. And NAD+ IV has been used to treat neurological conditions, addiction, and Lyme's disease in the United States 3, 4 decades ago. And I have worked with many of the pioneers in the field. And—

So you had a heads up on things then.

So it's not new. It has become increasingly popular in the last 10 years. The reason has been, I think it's partly due to COVID. If there's anything positive associated with COVID is the understanding or the acknowledgement of the importance of health by the general public. So NAD+ is becoming more and more recognized and popular in the last 2 to 3 years because we partly, we have better solutions to, I would say, optimize the NAD+ levels. You know, optimization is really the key word to me. The solutions are getting better. More importantly, we now have the methodologies to test NAD+ levels. And I'm happy to say that I made some contribution to the field by introducing the first intracellular NAD+ test that can be done for patients and for consumers. We launched the first NAD+ test about 6 years ago with the testing data, people understand better how deficient they are, and they can also monitor whether they are doing anything good with their products or their other methodologies.

I can attest because when I got the blood panel back from you and I started to read it, and I've been doing blood panel analysis since 2013. So, I've been doing it a pretty, pretty long time. And there are several tests on there I've never seen. And I, I'd hate to admit that, but I mean, I'm being honest. Like there was a few things in there and I, I was going, huh? And I, I went through and read your descriptions and then it made sense to me, but I didn't, I'd never even heard of them. I mean, that's how good that test is and how deep it is because, you know, you know this, I mean, most doctors have their, their CBC and their CMP and that's it. You gotta go to a good functional doctor to get a full panel. Mm-hmm. But that was even more intense than anything I've ever seen. Yeah.

Yeah, the best functional medicine or anti-aging medicine doctors come to Jinfinity because of the unique biomarkers that we have developed. And we, we have biomarkers in 8 major categories. And that I think everyone should pay attention to.

Yeah.

These are micronutrients including NAD, vitamin D, other vitamins, antioxidants. And then we have macronutrients related biomarkers, you know, carbohydrates and lipids, panels and Inflammation. Everyone talks about inflammation, but very few people know that chronic inflammation actually comes primarily from cellular senescence or zombie cells and oxidative stress. Yeah. That almost no other company test these biomarkers. And then you have to worry about hormones, especially the new longevity hormone, It's called COSO, and it's becoming very, very popular. And, and we have to worry about the toxins, you know, microplastics. And there are a lot of other biomarkers that are related to organ function that many conventional laboratories can test as well. So we, we focus on the root causes for aging-related diseases, while most other testing companies focus on diagnosing the diseases. We don't focus on diagnosis of disease. We want to figure out what causes the diseases. When you treat the root causes, you can have much better outcomes and you can also prevent much more severe problems years or decades in the future.

And that's the beauty of it, is that you're staying ahead of the curve and you're giving people a fighting chance. Yeah. You know, instead of waking up one day and just going, holy shit, what am I going to do? Because I don't, I don't subscribe to that. I want to know well ahead of time. So what you're doing is great. And I'm glad you brought the cloth up. I— that was one of the ones when I was leaving today and I went back and looked and I said, oh man, I'm in the green on that one. I'm so happy.

You know, like, can you tell people a little bit about what that is? What? That's— Koso is a longevity gene or longevity protein. And so the protein, the name for the gene comes from a Greek goddess that controls how many years you have. There are 3 goddesses that control how many years we live. Okay. 2 sisters. And, and CLOSO is the youngest one. Oh my God. And she gives you a number of years that you can live and her sisters can modify it. So that's how CLOSO, important CLOSO is. But in terms of science, If you delete the gene in, let's say, a mouse model, and mice develop a premature aging phenotype, like what we see in humans. And if you overexpress the KOSO gene in mice, their lifespan is extended by over 30%.

Wow.

And so we now know that Not only choline is important for aging, how many years you can live, but it's also related to the function of many different organs, especially kidney function. Now, 70% of patients with chronic kidney disease is deficient in choline. Really? Yeah. And cancer patients, about 70-75% of cancer patients are deficient, extremely deficient. In, in cortisol. Wow. But about 10% of cancer patients are extremely high in cortisol as well. So there's a very narrow window that you want your cortisol level to be in. Too little obviously is not good, but too high is also not good.

Okay. More is not always better. I always say that.

No, more is not always better for almost anything.

That's right.

You, you have to find the optimum range.

Well, I was in the greens.

You were in the greens. Yes.

I have a question to go back on something that you said that I really would like to, to know firsthand here. You brought up that NAD+ was used for heart failure in China, correct?

So, and in the US as well, and in Canada. Okay.

So what kind of effect are we talking here? Like effect on ejection fraction or, or what is it making the heart's ability to pump stronger?

About 1 year ago, major paper was published by the Sick Children's Hospital in Canada, Toronto. And what they have found is the number 1 risk factor for heart failure is the lack of energy due to NAD deficiency.

Really?

Yes. And also there are many studies showing that you can increase NAD levels to prevent heart failure and also to treat patients with heart failure. Because the root cause of heart failure is because the heart muscles are not able to produce enough energy. You know, any cells, all cells cannot function properly without enough energy. Right? Yeah. It's like your car wouldn't run if you don't have gasoline. Right. So without NAD+, you cannot produce ATP. ATP is the energy currency for our cells. NAD is deficient, you cannot produce enough ATP, and you have all kinds of problems. And if the heart is deficient in NAD, you may develop a heart failure.

I stopped the Jardiance for the ejection fraction because I was having a bad reaction to it. And I had been taking this now for a month. So, I go back in 5 months to retest.

So— No, we're going to test you— no, we're going to test you after the, the conversation.

No, I mean the, the cardiogram is 5 minutes, so that's plenty of time for it to get worse. Yeah. I wanna see. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh yeah.

No. Okay. All right, great. So multifaceted function and need and necessity for NAD+. It's not just for the anti-aging qualities. There's a lot of other things that we're looking at that it can, that it can do, right?

What? There are so many potential benefits from optimized NAD levels. The benefits goes from A to W, not X, Y, Z. I cannot find anything for X, Y, Z. Okay. I have a long list and it's pretty much anything you can imagine.

So over 20 benefits then?

No, way more than that. I don't remember everything, but we, you know, we can go through it. The number one, Benefit is energy. I mean, that's the number one function for energy.

So is that mitochondrial or?

It is mostly in the mitochondria. Okay. Yeah. Because ATP is, 95% of the ATP is produced in the mitochondria with the help of NAD+. So energy production is number one. You know, 70, about 70% of patients who go see the doctor complains about being tired. 70%. We can fix at least 90% of these 70% of people. Really?

Yeah. Because most people that come to me that say they're tired, they want testosterone. They think they need testosterone replacement therapy. That's their, that's their quick fix.

That's a quick fix, but you don't fix the fundamental problem. I'm not against the testosterone. I mean, I think When it's deficient, no doubt about it.

Not everybody needs it.

Not everybody needs it. You do not need to get way, way too high. Yeah. Some people want to have, getting way, way too high. And the number one problem for fatigue is NAD deficiency. That's just no doubt about it. Obviously, there are other issues, of course. Sure. Thyroid hormone deficiencies and testosterone and there are other contributing factors for sure. But the number one reason for chronic fatigue is NAD deficiency, and we can fix it so easily now. Wow.

Does, does NAD have any effects on hormones like testosterone, like estrogen or anything like that?

It, it can improve the hormone balance, but there's no direct correlation.

Okay. I didn't think so, but I wanted to make sure.

Okay.

So energy, what else would you say, or some maybe that people aren't aware of?

I'll, I'll talk about the 3 most important and then we'll go, go to, so The second one I would say is cognitive function. It's a huge one. And it provides a lot of benefit for memory, for mental clarity, brain fog, and dementia, Parkinson's patients, everything related in relation to brain function. That's the second category. The third category is sleep. People can have better sleep. I personally experience all these benefits, obviously. Then you may be surprised by the fact that NAD+ can help women with infertility issues. Really? Yeah. Wow.

Okay.

So that's probably a surprise. The next one is We kind of, you know, briefly talk about it before the podcast. NAD+ can relieve allergy and asthma symptoms. And my asthma, I had asthma for 20 years. I'm completely cured.

Wow.

And by basically 2 supplements, mainly NAD+, and the second one is a natural antihistamine. I think we have one here called So what's, what's really important, if you want to have great benefits, only this fundamental is very important. But depending on the health issues people have, you may want to combine with one or a couple other supplements that provide synergistic function. Wow. Okay.

So on the women's side, what about like menstrual cycle regulation? Does it help with that or just fertility?

Menstrual cycle, I don't think it's Okay. There's no evidence for that.

Okay. But lower fertility issues, does that do it for men too, or just women?

For men, there's no, there's no data. I think there's actually some reports on sperm numbers and the quality. And I personally don't have any data. I was going to do a study, but it's not done. Too many studies. Too many studies to do.

Most people, I think that when they think about NAD, they think about anti-aging, or they call it fountain of youth or anything like that. What effect does NAD have directly on our aging process? Does Does it make us age slower? Does it make us age more gracefully? Does it add more quality years to our life? What is the main benefit there?

I don't think of NAD+ as anti-aging. You don't? Okay. No, I'm not.

So, that's a misconception.

Not necessarily. Because I think anti-aging is too broad, too vague, and I do not want to focus on vague issues. I want to provide the tangible benefits that people can feel, and I want to help people to do better now and to reverse their health condition. Look, everyone in their 50s, some people in their 40s and 30s, already have plenty of suboptimal health issues, and I want to fix those. And I want them to perform much, much better. For me, I'm 64 years old. I am in many aspects, I'm doing better than my 30s. And the best example is my tennis game. Everything else doesn't count because how do you know you are doing better, right? But my, I know my tennis game is much better now than my 30s. Everyone has some issues. Everyone has a different set of issues. I'd rather prefer to focus on what benefits I can provide them now. How can I help them to manage their health conditions and reverse certain conditions? And then we can talk about prevention. Prevention is very important, but unfortunately, most people don't care about prevention. Being realistic, okay?

Yeah.

You know, I, in my view, when we talk about issues. We want people to understand and be able to practice, not just talk about it. And we have to be realistic. We want to— most people want to live much longer, but I don't think about how many years I want to live every day. I do think about how am I doing every day, how can I do better every day. The performance and the health span are much, much more important than how many years we're going to live. That's my view. Now, I don't think NAD+ necessarily can extend lifespan. The argument about that cannot extend the lifespan or can extend lifespan is a moot point to me. I'd rather prefer to focus on what health benefit it can provide. By extending healthspan, consequently, you are going to extend lifespan. But we are not going to be able to measure lifespan, at least in human population, anytime soon because it's not possible. It's not possible. It's not possible, you know, why bother to debate? Yeah. That's a more academic, philosophical debate that I'm usually not interested being part of.

There's too many different moving parts with too many different people that you just could never assess. It wouldn't even be fair. It wouldn't even be worth a try. What about inflammation? Because you and I both know that, that, I mean, that's really the core key cause of all diseases. And so many people are walking around inflamed. It's insane. I've seen so many panels like the hs-CRP panels that are just like, whoa, okay, I see the problem, you know? And does NAD+ have any effect on keeping that lower or improving it?

So NAD does have major anti-inflammatory properties. And I think the main function is through controlling cellular senescence. And that's a major—

Would you tell people what cellular senescence is? Right.

Cellular senescence, sometimes we call them zombie cells. And Cells age and they are programmed to die. But in certain unhealthy conditions, these cells that are programmed to die refuse to die. So what's the consequence? The consequence is they sit there, they cannot carry out their proper function. They are not dead, but they are not healthy either. So they just act like a zombie. That's where the zombie cell name comes from. And more importantly than being a zombie, if you are just a zombie, fine, right? But they actually secrete a lot of inflammatory products, like inflammatory cytokines. Yeah. That's why it's a major contributing factor to chronic inflammation. So, as we age, and also in individuals with health conditions including cancer, and their zombie cell level is much, much higher.

Yeah. How do you clear those out?

How do you get rid of them? This is one of the products in Onnitic that can actually help to clear zombie cells. They are more natural ways and safer ways to do it. And there are also some pharmaceuticals that may help clear zombie cells. And I usually prefer the more natural ways. And I'm not willing to go to the aggressive unsafe treatment for zombie cells. Very often compare zombie cells and cancer cells. You don't want them. So cancer cells are growing like crazy, right? Zombie cells don't divide, they don't grow, and they don't— both cell types don't have normal functions. And in order to kill cancer cells or zombie cells, you have a very tiny window. Because the difference between cancer cells and normal cells or zombie cells and normal cells are actually quite small in terms of response to treatment. So you have to be very careful. Only kill the cells you don't want, but don't damage the good ones. You don't want to kill the good ones. Yeah. And you think that's easy to do. Actually, it's very, very difficult. Look at how many scientists we have worldwide working on cancer for how long.

Tens of thousands of scientists working on the problem for decades and decades. We still don't have the perfect solution. We have just started working on zombi cells in the last 5, 10 years. And it's still a very small number of scientists that are involved in the field. And we are going to get better. The good news is we actually have some pretty safe and good ways to reduce the zombie cell burden.

Is there a way to test for zombie cells or senescent cells?

Yeah, we do. And we have your tester here. And Trinfinity is the only company that can test senescence level system-wide.

I want to shift gears here a little bit now because you and I have talked about this and I've talked about it at a pretty good length because I get pretty upset with the way people get misled and taken advantage of. I've been around supplements for, I, I really started to study supplements pretty hardcore in like 2012 cuz I was going to Mr. Olympia events and I was around, that's what I was around. And I quickly learned how messed up, like the whole, I call it the whole game cuz it is a game really. I mean, if you think about it, it's a game, it's a cat and mouse game. It's who's got the most money, who kind of can market the best and Oftentimes, and I hate to say this cuz I wish it wasn't this way, but there's a lot of misleading information, which then tricks people into thinking something that's just not true. And I, I've kind of found that when something gets really popular that we know it helps, that people take advantage of people.

Mm-hmm.

And so I think it's important with you as an expert to kind of give an understanding of, of NAD, how it actually works. And I'm talking like precursors and explaining what that means. And I would really like you to talk about this regular taking regular NAD versus a precursor. And then also one of the big questions that I always get is about IVs and injections. And I'd really like you to cover that and explain how efficient those are or not.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I will cover that, but I want to respond to, uh, what you, you said. And because I think it's very important.

Yeah. To me, please.

And the common, uh, conception is supplements don't work.

Yeah.

And I agree. I totally agree. Supplements on the market by and large don't work and it's a waste of money.

As it relates to NAD or in general?

Just NAD. Not just NAD. You're going to give people nightmares, Doctor. No, I am, but I'm going to give you a solution. Okay. I'll tell you why most of supplements on the market don't work.

Please.

The first reason is you don't know what you need to take if you don't test. And you really have to find out what you are deficient in. Taking a supplement to correct a problem that doesn't exist is not going to give you any benefit. That's, that's the first reason. The second reason is obviously You know, quality of ingredients, the formulation, all these are very important. It's a much difficult thing for people to judge. The third point is the dosing recommended by the vendors is way, way, way, way off. Many people say, you know, my doctor told me this, my doctor told me that. I'm the educator of doctors. I made thousands of doctors. I'm not a medical doctor myself, but I educate the doctors. Doctors don't know anything about nutrition or supplements, and they are always against supplements. Rightly so or wrongly so? I think it's both. Rightly so because most supplements on the market don't work, and wrongly so because supplements actually can work very well if you do it right. The way to do it right is find out what you need, supplement for what you you are deficient in. That's the first one.

Second one is pick the right product. That's easy to set and then done. But there are ways to do it. But most importantly, you really have to find out the optimum dosing for each individual. How much you need may be totally different from how much I need. Or another person needs. If you don't use the right dosing, in most cases, you are not taking enough, you get no benefit. In occasionally, you are taking way too much. Biohackers, if you are biohackers around, be careful. I test so many biohackers. So many of you are actually harming yourself more than helping yourself. I'm, I, I, I look like I'm an anomalous. It's very important. I see so many people, so many biohackers with kidney optimal function.

Yep. Too much.

Too much. Way, way too much. If you are taking, you know, 30, 40, 50 supplements without knowing whether you need them or not, and I think you may want to take some tests, figure out what you need, figure out what the supplement is actually working for you or not. That's usually my first, my first recommendation when people come to me for advice. Find out what you need, do it properly. These are the reasons why supplements don't work. And, by the way, we can make them work very well. We know how to get them to work. Now I'm going to come to your question. Is one we need it? Talk about 5 points. I don't want to dominate the conversation.

No, no, no.

I want to be systematic so we can cover it all.

No, please.

The first one is NLED can deliver incredible benefits. We already covered this point. But you can only get these incredible benefits when your NLED level is optimized. You cannot just randomly take a NAD+ product and hope for what benefits that are possible.

Right.

Okay. Optimization. That's the second point. To be optimized, we have done extensive studies. We know, we define the optimum range for NAD+ between 40 and 100 micromolar. I can tell you why. The first, the first piece of data we have is 75% of teenagers have NAD+ levels above 40 micromoles.

Oh, okay.

And that's not enough. That's one piece of data. The second piece of data that's more important is when we get NAD+ levels above 40, the people start experiencing noticeable benefits. If it's still lower than 40, some people may experience some benefits, but not— if you notice a difference, I know your NAD+ level is probably going to be in the 50s, 60s. Or if I can get your NAD+ levels to the 50s, 60s, I know most likely you are going to experience some benefits. Okay. So it's based on at what level you start experiencing benefits from NAD+ product. Now, if you have been taking NAD+ products for, you know, years and years, you don't notice any difference, it's probably not working. Get your test done, you will find out. So, that's the second point. It has to be optimized to get the benefit. The third point I want to make is the only way to optimize NAD+ level is through testing because I cannot predict, as much study I have done, I cannot predict how much each person needs to take to get NAD optimized. And I have some idea, population average, but when it comes down to one specific person, I do not know.

And here I test them after the treatment is supplementation or some other protocols. So that's the third point. The fourth point that most people don't know is if you get NAD optimized, every other protocol that you do can function more effectively. So NAD is a requirement, is a cornerstone in my view for all health optimization programs. And I will have a lot of data.

Alright.

The final point is if you really want to get the benefits from NAD+, you have to be what we call P&C. What's P&C? Persistent and consistent.

I like it.

Alright. And if you are not consistent, it's very hard to get the benefits or maintain the NAD+ levels at optimum range. We know if you stop taking the a product, your NAD+ level goes down by about 5% every day.

That quickly?

That quickly. So, by 3, 4 weeks, you have gone back to baseline.

Wow. So, that's like a lifelong thing then.

It's a lifelong thing.

Okay.

I mean, this is a question that I get all the time. Should I take it every day? Should I take it for the rest of my life? Think about it. This is just a micronutrient. Yeah. It's like a food. Yeah. You may want to have intermittent fasting, then may be helpful. But if you don't eat for a few days, you're not going to survive.

So, it's safe to take every day for however you want.

I've been taking it for 5 years. And I mean, some people have been taking it for decades. Yeah. It's a product. It's a compound that's in our body. It's a part of our body. You don't have enough when, as we age and as we, our health deteriorates. I mean, it's not a foreign compound. It's a part of our body. That's why it's safe in the long term. And so these are the 5 major points that we, we, we, we shouldn't remember specifically for NAD+, for all other supplements in general, how quickly it can drop.

See, I, that's one of those ones I wasn't fully aware of, that it can drop that fast. So you could spend months building it and just that quickly gone. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Well, if you're listening and you're taking it and you see good levels, don't think that that's a a ticket to stop because it's not, because you're going to be disappointed if you retest in a month because you're probably going to be back to where you were.

It's not a drug. It's— well, we're not treating the symptoms, we're treating— we're correcting the root problem.

Yeah. The good thing is, is we know how to correct it. The bad thing is, is you just better stay on it, right? I mean, just stay consistent. But consistency is everything that we do in life. If you're not consistent, you're just—

you know, consistency and the persistence. Yeah. I mean, these are The most difficult thing to do for everyone, including me, you know, I'm not going to tell people that I'm perfect.

No, we're all human.

With my NAD supplement, I almost never, never forget unless I had one time I forgot to take a product with me, then I didn't take it for a couple days. Otherwise, for the last 5 years, I never forget.

Well, I'm not going to forget that chewable you gave me because it tastes so damn good and I don't ever get any treats.

So, that's like a little treat to me.

So, I'll never forget that. I can promise you. As long as my wife stops stealing it, I'll have plenty. We'll get into that too, because I want to talk about that. But would you talk about the precursors? So that would be like NMN and NR and why you need to take those as opposed to just taking NAD+.

There are so many different ways, so many different products on the market. Most people get confused. Yeah, I'll try to help you and the audience to classify the different ways. The first one is you have different products that can be used. We have the NAD molecule and then we have what's called the NAD precursors, are just the smaller chemicals that our cells can use to build the NAD molecule. And there are a number of them. NMN, it takes only one step to make NAD from NMN. NR, nicotinamide riboside, it takes 2 steps to make NAD+. And now you also have nicotinamide. Yeah. And that can be converted into NAD+. And you have niacin or nicotinic acid, and that can be used as a precursor. Tryptophan is how our body makes most of the NAD+ we need without supplementing with the other supplements.

Really?

Yeah, because tryptophan is pretty abundant in our food.

Yeah.

But it's not efficient and can be— it's also used to make some other molecules, so there's competition. It's not a very effective one.

Some of the testosterone boosters we used to formulate would have tryptophan.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so these are the few building blocks or precursors that can be used. The second is how you deliver these various compounds. You can deliver through the IV. So now NAD IV infusion of the NAD molecule has been used for 4 decades.

Yeah.

Right? About 5 years ago, there were studies done on NMN IV in Japan. And now one company, I'm not going to say the name, is promoting NR infusion.

Really?

Yeah. So IV infusion. And then there's a subcutaneous injection. Only the NAD+ molecule has been tried so far. I don't think anyone's injecting NMN or NAD+. At least I'm not aware of it. So now patches. People tried to deliver the NAD+ molecule with patches. Right. There's a suppository. Yes. I'm going to pass on that. Yeah, I'm going to pass on that one. And this nasal spray. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's mostly NAD molecule. Yeah. And this was mostly all supplements. Okay. All supplements based on NAD, NMN, NR, nicotinamide, and so on. I'll try to summarize what we know.

Please.

IV infusion, of anything, NMN, NR, or NAD+, does not increase interest in the NAD+ at all. Nothing. Zero. Nada.

Really?

It does not.

So why do so many people say, because I always get this and I want you— you'll be able to answer this. I felt so good after I took an NAD+ IV or injection. I feel so great. I can't believe it. Why do they do that?

A certain number of people who experience benefits. I don't deny that.

Yeah.

And there are equal number of people who say they feel nothing or they have a lot of side effects. And let's focus on the people who may experience some benefits or a lot of benefits. And there are a few reasons. The first one is if you infuse anything, just saline, you are going to feel better. Let me put it this way. So they are receptors on the neuronal cells and the immune cells for the NAD molecule. So even though it does not increase the intracellular NAD, the binding of the NAD to the receptors can potentially provide some benefits.

Okay.

That's a possibility. And also the NAD. The problem with only the infusion is the molecule has a very short half-life, 6 hours. So after, in one day, 24 hours, you have half the amount 4 times. If you do the math, I know most Americans don't do the math very well. Sorry. That's the truth.

No. Speak the truth.

Well, I speak the truth. I make a lot of enemies. It's okay. But it's the truth. After 4 cycles of half-life, you have only about 5% left in the blood. So the bottom line is it degrades very quickly in the blood. Okay.

It's like a good reaction that goes away.

It's a good reaction, goes away. And, and then metabolized, that's something, this may have some biological functions as well. The problem is, is very short-lived if you are getting a benefit and if you have neurological conditions, NAD IV may help. I'm not saying NAD IV is completely useless. What I'm trying to tell people very clearly is if you want longevity purposes, if you want performance, you must get the intracellular NAD up. Because 90% of the function for NAD is through intracellular NAD, not the extracellular NAD that can potentially provide some benefits. If you don't get your intracellular NAD+ up, you are not getting all the benefits from NAD+. You are missing big time.

Well, you're defeating the purpose if you're not going for the long-term goal. You're just getting a short-term quick fix that's going to dissipate and go away, and then you're going to be right back to square one.

If you really want to optimize NAD+ intracellularly through IV, you have to inject every day.

I was going to just say that. That's like every single day. If the half-life is that short, then you have no choice. See, like with testosterone, because I studied for years testosterone esters and how to efficiently keep levels baseline so you're not peaking and troughing all the time. And if you don't have the right amount of injection time, like on testosterone cypionate, it's a 7 to 8 day half-life, and people want to inject once a week. But then if they inject Monday, by the following Monday you went—

yeah, you don't want that. No, with many biological molecules you don't want to to psych up and down. That's not— it's not the way.

Not good internally, but it's not good mentally either, because you're just all over the place. And then you wonder why your thoughts are all over and you feel like shit half the time. It's because you're, you're lacking what you— you got this great deal of injection on the top and then it's gone. So everything that you felt great on, you're having just an equal, like, deficit and you feel terrible. People don't think that way. It's like, oh, I feel so good right now.

Yeah. You know, I mean, unfortunately many people go for the very short-term, no forcing kind of feeling. Got to think that's not the right way for, you know, non-native.

No. So NMN is the, the, the best in, in you. This is what I've always been told to understand by everybody that's an expert in the NAD field is that NMN was the best pathway to get into our cells to then, you know, let us to release NAD levels and to actually get them going in the right direction.

Yeah, I'm going to be very balanced, you know, the fact. So the best NAD precursors are NMN and NR. Yeah. Okay. Both can increase the NAD levels very efficiently. And I personally prefer NMN a little better for two reasons. The first one is to convert NR into NAD, you need two enzymes, two steps. You have to make NR to NMN, right? And then you make it into NAD+. And the individuals who are deficient in the enzyme that converts NR to NMN is called NR kinase. If NR kinase, well, in our case, deficient, you are not going to be able to use NR efficiently. Yeah. And that's— but that, it's not a huge number of people. It's a small number of people. Second reason is both NR and NMN, any kind of compound, do have their own biological functions. NMN seems to provide more biological functions than NR. So from a functional point of view, a benefits point of view, NMN seems to be better than NR. So that's the— on the pure precursors, what we have found, why the chewables we have and also the powder that we make are so much better. I'll give you the data first.

So the NLA and NMN that's on the market increase energy levels on average for about 40-50%. That's published by many companies and we have data as well. But with the formulation that we have with 4 different ingredients that can work synergistically, and we provide 3 different ways for our cells to make NAD+, we increase the NAD+ levels by 116% with the powder and over 150% with the chewable.

My favorite.

Actually, what's really interesting is After we introduced the, the chewable, we are getting more and more people who, uh, whose energy levels are way too high.

Really?

We have to tell them to cut down the dosing.

Wow. Well, that's good to know.

No, that's why testing is important because yeah, you, you can overdose.

Too high. Yeah. No. And, and the whole thing with the NR is, is like, why add the extra step if you don't have to? That's the way I see it. I'm, I know it's effective 'cause I've seen people use it and, and feel great and have good blood panels, but Why add the extra step?

There's no, there's no reason. I mean, it's for commercial purposes. And also, N-A has been on the market much longer than NMN. So N-A was introduced to the market about 10 years ago, a little over 10 years now. NMN is more recent. It's the last 7, 8 years.

What would you say is a good dose daily of NMN, and is it different for men and women, or is it just the same?

If you don't want to get tested, take 1,000 milligrams of NMN.

1,000?

Yeah. So, if you take 1,000 milligrams of pure NMN, you have a 50% of a chance to get your NAD optimized. If you take 1,000 of NMN in our formula, you have 70% of a chance to get your NAD optimized. And if you take the chewable, 1,000 milligrams of NMN, you have a 70, you have a probably 85, even 90% chance to get your NAD optimized.

Oh, okay. So I get to eat 2 chewables a day because I've only been eating 1.

No, 1 is probably not enough for 90% of the population. Okay.

Well, good.

Then I can have 2. You can take them all.

Does it matter if you take it at day or night?

It does not really matter. It depends on— my recommendation is I take the first one after lunch because usually in the afternoon, most people have less energy. You want to boost.

Okay.

Let me give a very simple suggestion. When you feel that you need a coffee, go take your Chewable instead of the coffee.

And can you split those or do you need to take it all at once?

You can split them.

I just want a treat twice a day.

So it's— no, take two. You take two tablets. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Can I take one in the morning?

No, I actually recommend that you split it.

Split it. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. Whenever you feel you need a boost, take one. Okay.

Will it interfere with your sleep?

No. Okay. I'll take it back. So, for most people, it actually helps them to sleep better, including me. Okay. But for small number of individuals, they said they have so much energy, they actually cannot sleep.

Okay.

So, test it out. In those cases, take it early in the morning.

Okay.

And I take one dose before I go to bed.

Okay.

It helps me to sleep a bit.

I'm going to test it out.

Test it out.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, man, we've already gone over an hour. I can't believe it. That was tremendous. We're probably going to have to do another one because I think there's a lot of stuff we didn't get to cover today.

We can sit here and talk for days.

Oh yeah. There's— I've got countless things in my head I want to talk about. And I just looked up and I was like, uh-oh, what happens? That just goes to show, though, I mean, how much knowledge base you have.

And, and, you know, let's just give people one One thing, if you want to know everything about NAD+, I actually, uh, I have the book. Yeah. And many questions will be answered in, in this book.

The good thing about that book is it's, it's very detailed, but it's very easy to understand at the same time. So the science is in there, but the explanations, it's— anybody can read it and understand it and get a good feel for a lot of basic questions that you need, and then some things that you would never have been aware of. Yeah.

I wanted to make it a little more philosophical than, uh, than science. It does a detailed advice. Yeah, there's more, uh, for everybody, more philosophical.

Yeah, I think it's for everybody. I, I think that everybody should read it once, get a good understanding, and then take a couple, re-look at it, you know, because there's, there's things in there that you might not pick up on that you want to keep relearning. I always read stuff over and over because you need to just refresh your mind. So the company is Jinfinity, and I can tell you because when I let somebody come on here and show products, I have to try them and use them first. I don't just let anybody and then come on here and start showing stuff. I use their turmeric, their creatine, and of course the— my favorite in the world, the chewables. But you do have other forms of— you have a powder form.

We have a powder.

Yeah, yeah. And this is NMN. But the thing I'm going to point one thing out here that I love too is on this one, because you also have creatine D-ribose and on, uh, niacinamide in this, it makes it even stronger. And that's what I love about this because I personally need D-ribose that I take for my heart anyway. So the formula on this is tremendous and all of your products are formulated so well, tested well, and they can also get testing kits at Jinfinity, right? You're testing.

Yeah. We have, we have two, two different tests. If you only, if you're only interested in, in the NAD, That's a test to get. It's a finger prick. Yeah. Very easy to do. And then we have the NAD panel, over 50 different biomarkers that covers your stem cells, cholesterol. Yeah. Oxidative stress, NAD, and everything. And that's what we call the ultimate longevity biomarker panel.

I had that done. We'll go through that next time I go over my results, and we'll also update my NAD test and share that after using this for a month, and then after using it for a few months, because I got to up the dose.

You got to up the dose, but we'll get you tested to see what level you are at with one tablet.

Okay.

So this way, you know, you see how this is really science. We do it in a very scientific way.

Perfect.

No, you know, no guess.

I love it. I love how thorough. I love the insight. And I love more than anything the dedication to everybody and doing work that's really helping people and opening up their eyes to see and understand how this really works. So your work is greatly appreciated. Your friendship is appreciated by me. I'm happy to get you on here to really spotlight this and get a better understanding for everybody. So I appreciate you coming out to see me and I'll look forward to carrying on some more conversations with you.

Thank you very much. I really enjoyed our conversation.

Awesome, man. Well, I'll link Jinfinity in the description for everybody to go visit the site, get your test, get your products, and stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Gemelli signing off.