Transcript of The Top 5 DUDES Of The NFL Preseason | Hour 1

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You are listening to the Dan Levitan Show in partnership with the DraftKings Sports App, now live in all 50 states.

Hey, Sass.

Yeah?

Last week, Chris did this thing, and I said, man, you should have done the ad read like this.

So here's what we're gonna do.

This episode of the Dan Lebatard Show is presented by DraftKings Sports. DraftKings, the crown is yours.

Wonderful. Terrible news waking up today. You put up Twitter and Hayden Panettiere passed away, 36 years old. It looks like it's, it's still under investigation what happened there. Uh, it's gonna wind up being sad no matter what, but it feels like it's gonna be a little bit ugly when we find out some details. Uh, she'd been in the news recently too for speaking of, I guess, some incidents she had when she was younger. And I'm not gonna say like a sex traffic situation, but where she was, uh, it's the best way of putting it, groomed. I don't even know if that's the best way, but it like, you know, essentially offering her up to some, you know, big-time, uh, Hollywood or, or, or rock star that, you know, she was expected to—

singer. If you dig into her background, she's had a difficult life.

Wasn't she married to Klitschko?

She was married to Klitschko.

She was. Yeah, they're, they're treating this like a suspected overdose right now. Um, that's the latest news coming in. Yeah, horrifically sad. At one point she was, she was next, dude.

Heroes, man. Heroes.

Heroes was a hot show. That first—

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World.

Yeah, that show was hot. I never saw a second, but Like, this is really—

you never watched?

Never watched a second. But I'm gonna tell you, this is the power of the monoculture that does not exist anymore. The idea that a show that I never watched a second of, that I could recognize what Mike was talking about because you couldn't avoid it. It was everywhere. It was the biggest thing. You got to remember, this was like the closest thing to superhero content that people had because MCU wasn't a thing yet.

So They had early seeds and like, yeah, I mean, they still had the Fox thing.

Yeah, some Spider-Man movies, there's X-Men.

It was like mid-2000s here.

Yeah, it was all over the place, but Heroes tapped into what was a— I mean, they read the room correctly and it ended up being a huge show. Yeah, save the cheerleader, save the world.

The first season or two of Heroes was really good, then it kind of lost track, you know, after that. Yeah, that was a big show. She was then one of the stars with Connie Britton in Nashville. Yeah, which I watched the first season of Nashville. I like that.

It's another big-time show.

That was a good show. It was a big-time show.

And she talked about like the writers kind of exploiting her personal issues for plot points, which is kind of nuts. Like, it's a lot more commonplace, I think, in older shows, like in the '70s and stuff, where it's like, oh, you're dealing with this, that means you know how to act this well, or whatever. For a show that modern to have an allegation like that, I found that pretty shocking.

That was like when Vince gave Hawk from Legion of Doom, uh, you know, a drug addiction on Raw when he really had a drug addiction, fell off the Titan.

Yeah, but she did a lot of things that will have cultural impact. Two huge TV shows. That is a bona fide TV star. And also a role in, um, Remember the Titans.

I, I would say her— she was like 9 or 10 years old in Remember the Titans. I would say her performance as a kid in Remember the Titans is one of the great child performances. She, she was awesome in that movie. Awesome.

She was amazing.

She was so good in that movie.

Yeah.

And it's, it's so— I mean any of these premature deaths are, are so sad. And now you look at, uh, there was a movie called Ice Princess back 20 years ago. It was her and Michelle Trachtenberg, and they've both passed away. And it's just, it's so sad when you see the young people, especially people who, who came up as children in Hollywood, um, you know, we see so many of them go through something and then come out the other side of it, and it's so rare that that's the case. Like, I'm seeing, you know, Hilary Duff selling out Madison Square Garden in concert right now, which is just so insane. And to see someone who went through the, the childhood cycle be able to come out the other side of it without these tragic things happening, it's, it's so sad. And like Hayden Panettiere was like, like Mike said, like she was a huge, huge, huge actress. And you know, for me, like I remember, I remember the movie I Love You, Beth Cooper, cuz I was like 14 years old when that came out.

That movie's funny.

Yeah. And she She was funny, she could act dramatically, she was an incredibly talented person who went through so much, and it's just so sad to see this be the end result of what was a pretty tortured life.

It is kind of weird that people continue to feed their children to the Hollywood beast. Like, it feels like most of these kid actors, even when they do come out on the other side okay, Jeremy, still go through like a Shawshank level of shit. To go come out okay on the other side. And so I like, I'm still staggered that people are still willing to do this. Like, I'm gonna put my kid—

they're still paying money. Yeah, but like, we're still gonna be willing to do whatever they can to secure those funds, even if it is at sacrificing— sacrificing the child. 100%. That's literally what Hollywood's built on.

It's not even like, like, people are like, oh, I can't believe people let their kids play football. But like, that's sports, right? Like, for the most part You're not getting wholesale sexual abuse in sports, right? It happens. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I'm saying like, it seems like sexual abuse and drug abuse, a prerequisite, are like, yeah, this is the, this is the cost of doing business.

Yeah, her career was ascending when all that MeToo stuff was going down, but the child star that ends up self-medicating and succumbs to it, uh, from all appearances here, that's kind of bygone era stuff.

You think so?

A little bit. Not the sexual assault, but the, uh, the drugs and the substance abuse and a star that passes away. I feel like in the 21st century we had had a crop of young child actors that went on to be relatively well adjusted. Yeah, you had the Amanda Bynes stuff, no doubt. There is— there— it's a very difficult thing. But I do think if you look at the last 25 years of child stars, there's more well-adjusted cases of it. And what might— especially with social media, it might be an even more difficult time to do so.

No, I mean, they've They've tried. Um, but you also look at still even the most recent, whether it's, you know, Nickelodeon or Disney Channel stars and those who have gone through it, which are like the new generation. And you see Demi Lovato, who's gone through a ton and dealt with so much, or Aaron Carter, which is years before. It's, it's a slightly different thing because he was in the music world.

Or the newer ones that—

Zendaya is an example.

Yeah. Chalamet. There, there's well-adjusted child.

Yeah, for every shitty example, there's Justin Timberlake.

Yeah, they've put a lot—

they've put a lot of— they've put a lot more things in place now. Like, there's a lot more regulations. It ends up in a lot of cases now, it almost looks like, um, when you see some of these, particularly if you like analyze it just through the, the TV lens, a lot of these cases end up being the parent is actually the one, of course, that is, is driving so much, relying so much on these kids to be breadwinners. I mean, Shia LaBeouf is a disaster of a human being and done a lot of really, really, really terrible things. But if you go watch Honey Boy, um, which was the movie about his dad, he plays his dad. God, the life that this kid was living and having to be the breadwinner. So you look at all of these different examples and like, in the same way that I would never, like, I would never let my kid play football. I also would not want my kid to go through any of this Hollywood stuff. And, and the irony being like, I'm someone who's a huge proponent of the arts.

What if, what if your kid comes out to be a triple threat like this old man?

Go, go, go do high school productions and enjoy that. And when you reach, you know, the step, the, the stage of like late teenagehood to, to your early 20s, then go explore that opportunity. But like, if my kid was like I mean, I don't know, I don't have kids, but if my kid was like a super talented, you know, 10-year-old actor, I don't think I would be feeding them to that machine. Maybe like a local car commercial.

Steven Spielberg shows up and says, we're rebooting Indiana Jones from the beginning.

Jeremy says pass.

And we want your son, Jeremy Jr., little JJ Tashé. JJ.

JJ Tashé.

JJ Tashé, that's a good name. We want him to play young Indiana Jones.

You've said yes before Spielberg even finishes the sentence. What are you talking about?

Spielberg picks up the phone, you're like, yes!

I would have let my kids into that Hollywood actor scene before I would have allowed them to play football.

I would have. Yeah.

And, and I, I think when you're talking about who are the—

who are the Pop Warner guys? I mean, they're not hitting train tracks over there.

But when you're talking about who are the parents that, you know, are allowing their children to get involved in this, you don't think most of the parents say, all right, I like— I'm, I'm— I have the information that I have, and I'm gonna make sure that my kid does not turn out to be one of those terrible cases. Like, I, I would be confident in my parenting skills to, to shield my child from all of that stuff. Like, obviously there's a lot of parents who, who think that they're going to be that, and there's actually good examples pretty recently.

Like, I think about the Modern Family cast where you had all of these adults who were there for the kids as they were going through it. Like, they all still spend all of this time together and still work to make sure that in their adult lives they're well-adjusted.

Yeah, but those kids— do those kids go on to do anything?

No, but that, that's my point. Like, it doesn't matter whether or not they go on to be future stars. The whole premise is that so many of these kids that start at that age end up going through God knows what later on. I mean, God, I hate going through the list over and over again, but like Goldberg from Mighty Ducks, like that guy, oh my God, what he's been through. And it's the child actor that experiences everything that comes with being involved in that, whether whether it's just getting a taste of the spotlight and then not knowing what to do with the rest of your life, or things that are infinitely worse. So it is about having the proper structure in place on a given set. It's about having the right adults in the room that are not just casting kids off to the side. Heck, for that matter, all of the kids from Harry Potter, like, they've all gone on to be— yep, totally fine.

Tom Holland as well.

Yeah, they've all grown up to have, have nice lives.

Sisters.

Yeah, yeah.

Which could have been really bad.

See what I mean? Like, they're It used to be in the '80s or the '70s, y'all end up like Drew Barrymore, even worse. Yeah, like that.

Todd Bridges.

Yeah, it was, it was, it was virtually cast at different different shows. Yeah, it was virtually guaranteed that if you ran into fame at a, at a certain age in Hollywood, you, you were doomed. If you were a child star, you'd, you'd have horrible stories like Corey Feldman and, you know, like Corey Haim. Yeah, but it has been— so on Corey Feldman It's— it has been cleaned up to a much greater degree. That's not to say that, you know, an adult struggle too. It's right, right.

You don't think it's the same? Like, you don't think the ratio is the same? It's, it's people. We're talking about people.

As someone who's been in now 3 films, I don't know. That's all right.

But there's, there are plenty of examples.

Yeah, yes, absolutely. Like, the struggles and the pressures of stardom, of being in this space, of wanting to fit in, of wanting to impress people who you think need to be impressed for your career to continue. These are all things that are universal and not necessarily that of the domain of a child, but for a child it must seem extra like, "Oh no, I have to do this," in a way that like, you know, some of the stuff you hear about and, you know, my mind always goes back to like, if I was 15 and someone approached me with that, I'm like, "Get the hell outta here." But I also realize, if I was 15 and someone approached me with that, I had nothing riding on this. Like, I didn't have like, yo, your whole life and your family's house and your mom and dad and everyone that they all were depending on you. Like, oh, maybe, maybe I can do this a little bit, you know? So those pressures absolutely exist and absolutely must feel monumental to anyone, let alone a child. Dan Levitar.

You're gonna go to Buffalo with Bernie Parmley, Mike Ryan, and the Jags. This is the Dan Levitar Show.

I want to pivot a little bit, if I may, right here, because I think I found the greatest two Americas situation in my group chat ever. My buddy Trey, affectionately known as Black Trey, we're in a group chat and one of the guys in the group chat posts, "Hey, damn, Hayden Panettieri passed away." And I was like, "Oh man, that sucks." And he was like, "Never heard of her." And so we're like, "You remember Heroes?" They're like, "Never heard of that show." "Never? No, no, no, what about Remember the Titans?" Like, "Oh, okay, yeah. Yeah, I don't know who she is, but I remember that movie." So then we're like, "Yo, she was married to Vladimir Klitschko." And he said, never heard of him either. I'm like, what? No, hold on. Wow.

Boxing. You know, movies.

This is a dude that knows sports.

Your friend's NPC.

I'm like, yo, man, like, you can't tell me you don't remember the Klitschko brothers. But it's like, yeah, he's like, he's a little stubborn like that. I think he probably does, but now he don't. He's 10 toes deep. But I'm trying to think, like, what is an example of something like that where a friend of yours— there's no way you avoided this, right? Not, not something like Heroes. Like something that is firmly in your wheelhouse and is like, I've never heard of this because that's— that took me aback. I'm still on the channel, bro. You know, the Klitschkos, there's no way you watch boxing. How do you not know who the Klitschkos are? It's not— it's not like he's just like, oh, like the 10th contender or whatever. Dude was heavyweight champion of the world.

It's one of the great heavyweights of all time.

He's like, I haven't watched since Floyd retired. I'm like, this guy was fighting when Floyd was fighting.

He was in his prime.

It was like so much before Floyd.

No way. Like, you could be like, oh, like this is something new or something like niche or something. I'm trying to think what other example I can pull up.

I feel like that stuff happens with me and pop culture all the time.

But like, you're not a pop culture guy, you're not a movie guy, so we're not staggered when you've never heard of something.

Klitschko-Rain though, for the heavyweight cards.

Wow.

Yeah, I know.

Two of them!

They didn't really have their cards though, like on pay-per-view all that much, and they fought a lot in Europe. It was kind of a bit of a doldrum for heavyweight.

Were they both champion at one point?

I think they were both champions.

Not, not at the same time.

Yeah. No one thinks it was at the same time.

Yeah. Famously, no one fight one another.

No one thinks they were both champion at the same time.

At one point.

Well, it's like you said, at one point. WBC. There's different.

Were they both champions at one point?

Yeah.

At the same time?

At one point in time, were each of them champion? That's right. Nobody believes they were both champions.

That's what that statement means, though.

It didn't need to be spelled out.

It does when you say it like that. Am I wrong? Juju, put it on the poll. If you say something at one point, does that mean it is at the same time?

Someone in the chat pointed out when Dave Dameshek didn't know a single Mariah Carey song.

Oh, that's a good one. That's a good example.

It's a good example, but it's out of his wheelhouse. Like, I will—

it's okay though, but it's so mainstream that you should have a clue.

Right, that's the— I thought that was kind of what you were asking. Something that should have just reached everybody, but somehow this person missed.

I'm more of the, no, this should have reached you.

It's in my wheelhouse.

It would be like I bring up a baseball player and you're like, who's Cal Ripken Jr.?

Like, something like that. Okay, gotcha.

Like, what do you mean you don't know who Cal Ripken Jr. is? Because even a Dameksek one, as ridiculous as it is, as a man of his age who have lived in America and was old enough to be hollering at girls and stuff like that, to have never heard him— I can't name him Mariah Carey song. Like, impossible. Yeah, there's no such thing.

Wladimir Klitschko fought Anthony Joshua less than 10 years ago. Yeah, he also fought Tyson Fury 11 years ago. Yeah, two of the biggest names in boxing.

Yeah, but that was like— that was the biggest fight and it was the end of his reign.

Sure, but like You should have the Klitschko somewhere.

What about Vitali? Maybe it means Fran had never heard of Vitali.

No, he said the Klitschko brothers. He'd never heard of either. Mike, this is my point. I'm not a huge boxing fan. I know who the fuck they are. Like, how's that possible?

It's because of their approach. They were very European-centric.

I was just up on my European boxing.

I mean, they would not fight—

Big Ukraine guy?

All the fights over there. And they kind of were ahead of the game because now all the big heavyweight fights, you're not watching them in Las Vegas. They're all happening in the Middle East, or they started that and it hurt the sport. It's like having like an up-and-coming sport putting it behind a paywall, like what MLS did. And I don't know if you've seen the stories about Formula One, how they're struggling because they've been behind a paywall. They're struggling? Yeah.

If they're struggling, man, we're cooked. All of us. If Formula One is struggling—

Just wrap it up.

But they're struggling in the United States.

And that's where we are.

Yeah.

If you're Formula One, you have You're huge. You have this global presence. You take the most money available to you, and I don't think you care so much about sustainable growth models in the US.

Tony, it's your time to shine. Let's get to a top 5.

All right, top 5 dudes from preseason week 1 of the NFL.

Top 5 dudes.

Dudes, I was watching, scanning the games, watching highlights. Doing my thing, getting ready, and I saw a couple dudes stand out.

All right.

And I was like, I gotta put these guys in the top 5 and make sure that everybody knows some names here that you may not know of right now.

All right.

But it's coming up in the future, very important names. All right, we're gonna start off in the OLI. 3 OLIs really quick. Wide receiver for the Baltimore Ravens shining in camp, Jacoby Lane. 3 for 38 and a score, had a diving catch into a touchdown. Obviously we know Baltimore has trouble getting Lamar Jackson some wide receiver help. They just signed Zay Flowers to a big deal. Jacoby Lane, big body, could be a guy that could be vying for a number 2, number 3 spot in that rotation, the receiving corps. I like Jacoby Lane. Second OLI, okay, Malik Willis. We talked about him, did exactly what you wanted to go out there and do— command the offense, make smart plays, make smart throws, no turnovers. Did exactly that. So very encouraged by him.

He was excellent.

I was, I was It's the best of what it could have been, right, Tess?

Yeah, couldn't have been better.

Like, it couldn't have been better. Maybe like score a touchdown throwing the ball, maybe, but like other than that, he was great.

Should have, should have been 5 for 5.

Correct.

Uh, last one, Casey Concepción for the Browns. Shifty punt return, nice couple plays, good player. I really like him.

All right.

Number 5. We barely show love to this group. Mike knows him very well. Markell Bell. Absolute horse. Took a safety, pushed him 15 yards down the line of scrimmage.

15 yards?

He was, he was getting to the second level routinely. Obviously, we know how good the Philadelphia Eagles offensive line is. Lane Johnson, right tackle, has been a staple for them forever. Markell Bell, now the next generation of that line. He's been great, Mike.

Yeah, Lane Johnson's been very effusive in, in the praise of Markell Bell and the coaching that he got at the University of Miami. Come to Miami, they develop you at that position.

You want to play O-line? Get to Miami. Number 4, Drew Aller.

I saw that.

3 touchdowns, 2 through the air.

Good for him.

I was like, wow.

I, I was not a big fan of his at Penn State.

I mean, the video that I saw of him last week was him missing the throwing net. Yeah, not missing the square in the throwing net, missing it. No, I'd never seen that before. And I saw Ja'Cory Brown a lot at practice. I had never seen someone miss the net entirely.

Will Drew Aller start a game this year?

Ooh, good question. I put the over-under at a game and a half. What do you take?

Oh, wow. Well, then. So then you do think he's going to start?

I think he'll start a game.

I think he will too. Yeah.

I was not a big fan of his at Penn State. I thought he was a little over, over, you know, blown. But Drew Aller came in, showed some good stuff on tape.

He is presently the fourth-string quarterback on their depth chart.

No, he's not.

Is Mason Rudolph still there? Mason Rudolph is still there.

Yeah.

Yeah. You never remember the times that he goes, right?

But he's always back.

But he's always there. Yeah, he's right now.

And is Will Howard 3?

Will Howard is listed as 3rd.

Yeah. So maybe we just—

national champion Will Howard.

All right.

Yeah, but maybe they see something in the preseason. All of a sudden you start moving up the depth chart. Maybe they get rid of Howard.

About that running back room. Did you know Rico Dowdle is there? And Travis Homer. Nice little career for Travis.

They got good weapons there. Wide receiver too. You got Metcalf and Pittman. The only part of their offense that stinks is the quarterback.

Yeah.

Number 3, a name that we haven't really talked about, but a name that could be very interesting for a team that has 20% of their roster injured. Dijon Strip— uh, Stribling over from Ole Miss, wide receiver, 7 for 62 for the San Francisco 49ers. We're in that number 15, uh, Jawan Jennings no longer there, Mike Evans's corpse is being dragged around the field, they got the corpse of Deebo Samuel, like not a ton of guys.

I feel like the 49ers wide receiver corps is.

A lot of corps, right?

I think it's going to be really ugly this year. Like, I think we could start to see it from Mike Evans. And I don't know if Deebo—

Deebo doesn't have it. Yeah, Deebo had it for like 6 games last year and then all of a sudden it was like, pshew. But other than that, I mean, you know, Kittle's coming back from an Achilles injury. There's a lot of question marks in that wide receiver corps.

And, you know, you got that whole electrical— the substation situation.

Crazy.

So Dijon Stribling, a guy to keep an eye on. For the 49ers. Number 2, and this one's kind of a bummer because it just came out that he has a high ankle sprain, but Jeremiah Love looked great.

Did he?

11 for 53, 5.3 yards of carry, explosive through the hole, decisive, made one cut, put a foot in the ground and got upfield. Like, he was great in his debut. Has that high ankle sprain which hopefully doesn't linger throughout the rest of the season because those tend to, but, um, he electric. All right, number 1, a guy who we didn't really know why the team that took him took him because they have an MVP quarterback, but Ty Simpson, my number 1 dude for preseason week 1, came out 21 of 25, a buck 90, 2 scores, looked very, very good. Obviously Sean McVay has a great system which allows Matthew Stafford at almost 40 years hold to be able to play at an MVP level. Ty Simpson, there's something there. I'm intrigued.

Ty Simpson is in such a great spot. I, I hope he understands that because it could be hard. You're a first-round pick, and look, he was drafted in the first half of the first round, right? It was like 13 maybe. So he's drafted in the first half of the first round, and you know, every player who's drafted wants to play. But when you're selected at the position he was selected at in the draft, like, yeah, I want play when the reality of it is if the Rams had it their way, he wouldn't play a single snap, probably not just this year but probably next year too. Probably wouldn't play a single snap to what would be his third year in the league. But I hope he understands he's in such a good situation. He's gonna be able to sit behind— he's on a great team. He's gonna sit behind and learn from Stafford. He's gonna learn from McVay. Now, would McVay still be his coach like when Stafford retires? I think we could see McVay kind of, you know, do they get a Super Bowl or not?

That's— I feel like that's the question. If they have a Super Bowl in that window, then maybe you can see him get to the broadcast booth. But like, if there's something—

because we went through this like 5 years ago with McVay where he was gonna leave, you know. So I don't know if he'll wind up actually being Ty Simpson's coach one day, but at the same time, you're there for at least a couple years now learning from Sean McVay. Ty Simpson is a pretty great spot.

It's an interesting spot, and I think it's kind of refreshing to have that quarter quarterback that you can sit and be like, all right, I'm going to learn behind one of the greatest guys that ever do it. Because now it's like, all right, how good are you? How quick are you? Can you be, you know, the guy from day one as a rookie? And it's just really hard. We've seen so many generations of quarterbacks be burned out through all that, that all of a sudden now you have the chance for a guy who probably could have— it would have been better for him to stay one more year in college. You would agree. And all of a sudden it's like— would have made more, would have made more money, would have had more experience, more games, more tape under his belt. But now you sit behind a great offensive line, you sit behind a great coach, you sit behind a great quarterback and you start to learn. It's like maybe we can get back to that.

That's why he came out. The built-in relationship that he had with the Rams front office, they told him they liked him through that. And yeah, you may make a little bit more money in college via NIL in that year, but also if you're a young quarterback, you're already trying to get to that second contract. So you don't want to kick that can down the road, take a little less and make a little bit more sooner.

Were there guys that you saw play this weekend who you said you weren't embarrassed to say, wow, I did not realize he plays for this team still? Because it happened with me when I was seeing highlights of the Indianapolis Colts. I did not realize Anthony Richardson is still on the Colts. Like, I, I totally forgot. How is he still on the Colts? Like, did anyone else have a moment like that with a player they saw this week? How is that guy— hey, how is that guy still playing? And B, how is that guy still— how he's on that team?

Like, it has to be the same team or just that he's still around.

Yeah, I was a little surprised at the Mason Rudolph thing. I just found out.

Okay, see? Yeah, I couldn't believe Anthony Richardson still— I mean, like, he quit middle of a game too soon.

Case Keenum just surprised me.

Yeah, that's a good one. Case Keenum out here putting work.

Yeah.

Dan Levitar. Yo, I'm not gonna lie. Jonathan Sasselow. I look good in red. This is the Dan Levitar Show.

Amin.

Yeah.

I know you're super fired up about a season premiere on television tonight.

Oh, yeah, man. It's one of my favorite shows of all the shows. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

So that's premiering tonight.

It's premiering tonight.

Season 18.

Season 18, which officially puts them at the halfway point because when they pitched the show, they said it's a 36-season arc.

Get the hell outta here.

That's what they said.

Get the hell out. They must've been laughed out the room.

I mean, yeah, I think they were just trying to be funny at the time, but to see it now be one of the longest-running sitcoms in American television history is pretty remarkable.

Well, here's— so correct me if you think I'm wrong here, maybe the most remarkable part of that is it's the same cast.

Yeah.

Because, you know, like everybody knows SVU. SVU has been for 24 or 25-ish seasons. But outside of Mariska Hargitay and Ice-T, although Ice-T was not an original. No, but outside of Mariska Hargitay, yeah, there's cast members flying in and out of that show.

Richard Belzer, right?

Yeah.

Who else has been in and out of that? Chris Maloney.

Yeah, of course.

In and out.

The— there's a new ADA every 2 or 3 seasons.

The ADA at one point— this is deep lore— the ADA was once a criminal and then she was brought in as the ADA because they liked her as the actress.

Oh, really?

Go back. She was actually part of an auto-exphyxiation Criminal Defense, where she was the one that was the criminal.

How'd she pass the background check?

I don't know, but now she's the ADA.

Can you say you've been on Law Order if you haven't played multiple roles, once as a criminal and once as a cop?

Well, she was installed by the current administration.

You know, there was the captain, and then he left the show, so, you know, uh, uh, Mariska Hargitay's character became Benson. Olivia Benson became the captain. And there, if you're watching on the video, you can see the, uh, the original cast there.

Oh, it's my man Brian O'Reilly from Oz on the left.

Yeah, and he's the guy that does all the, the commercials.

A lot of crossover between Oz and Law Order.

Oh yeah, a lot of crossover. Yep. So that show has been on for like 25 years, but completely rotating cast. Yeah, Sonny has had the exact same cast, although DeVito joined late. I was gonna say DeVito was not original.

Season 2 is right. By late, I mean season 2 of 18 seasons, right?

He was not original.

Yeah, and which was for them at the time, a massive get because they were unknowns, really unknowns. I think, uh, Mac, who was played by Rob McElhenney, he was doing like—

he had done like commercial, commercial work. That was it.

Lost, I think he had an episode of Lost, like maybe just in and out and stuff like that.

Yeah, but Charlene Howerton had gone to Juilliard. Yeah, but wasn't yet getting roles or anything like that.

Like, what did Rob McElhenney do in Lost?

We'll find out.

He wasn't lost. Charlie Day goes by Rob Mack now.

Charlie Day had been in, uh, in Law Order. He played a character in Law Order, one of those one-offs, right? So it's like, these were all— and they pitched it, they shot the pilot on like a camcorder, and that was the whole proof of concept. Obviously that ended up being the, the actual—

from what I understood, Caitlin Olsen, who plays Sweet Dee, the original pitch for her character, they wanted her to be the foil. Yeah, but she refused. She— well, they realized she had to be— she had to be just as bad as the men. She—

exactly. They originally had her as kind of like, guys, you know, like, kind of like not just a foil, but like, they're idiots, but she's the smart one. She's like, why would I be smart and still be hanging around with these idiots? And so that's when they realized, we'll make them all idiots.

The Genius was juxtaposing the entire cast against normal human beings. So it's like, if you had had the straight man within it, it could have worked. And her playing sort of the straight man would have been been fine. But when you turn all of them into the imbeciles that they are, it allows you to have like episodes where they just interact with each other and it's great and ridiculous. But then when you pit them up against people in the real world and they actually have to interact with like standard human beings, it makes it all that much better. And it's the longest-running live-action sitcom ever, ever, and yet doesn't have that type of praise, obviously, in terms of awards and things like that.

Obviously you mentioned live-action sitcom, so we're talking shows that have been episodic, weekly episodic shows have been longer. We're talking The Simpsons. Yeah, we're talking, like we just said, Law Order: SVU.

Not a sitcom.

No, no, I'm talking overall shows, episodic television. Family Guy, South Park, WWE Monday Night Raw. And I'm like, I'm being serious, I'm trying to joke. Uh, is there anything else?

I'm gonna say this once and for all, wrestling people, are y'all a sport or a TV show?

It's a TV show.

Okay, never— then get off of ESPN, get off of— I don't want to see you on any highlight shows or whatever. Like, if you're a sport, be sports. If you're a TV show, be a TV show. But you can't mix and match, take one mask off like, oh no, I'm over here with Always Sunny. Oh no, I'm over here with the NFL. Pick one.

Yeah. Also, I don't think Monday Night Raw can say they are TV's longest-running episodic program anymore because they are no longer on TV.

Okay, so they're on streamer.

That changes things.

Okay, you're right. Is there any other shows that we're missing? That have been on longer?

Grey's Anatomy, 22 seasons.

Holy shit.

How long has this Daily Show been around?

Grey's Anatomy.

Oh, that's a good one. Drama though.

This show?

No. Our show.

Why not? 5 days a week.

The one that had Kilbourne on it.

Oh.

Wow. So I'll tell you, I love Always Sunny, but I don't keep up with it.

I get that. It's, as it goes along, it's not quite what it was in the pocket.

Like if it's on in front of me, I will watch it and I will love it.

They're still— last season was awesome.

I thought last season they got it back.

Yep, completely.

They had a couple of seasons there where it's like, it's clear now these guys are blown up, they've got other things, they're— it's drawing them away. And the whole magic of it all was that these guys were together working and creating, writing all of it together. So you could tell like, oh yeah, this is— it's— everything has to end. And then last season, like, nope, they totally brought it back. Brought it back 100%.

I think it was actually the benefit of them doing a podcast together.

Yeah.

And ironically, they just they ended it and they never said anything about it, which was a pretty funny thing and typical of, of, of kind of the characters more so than the people. But they did this podcast and allowed them to kind of go back and remember how the origins of these characters started. And they had rewatched old episodes and been like, oh man, that's a really good thing. And then immediately last season in season 17, they brought back so many great things that are not just fan service done poorly, but actually were really great follow-ups to some of those bits.

Do you know how old DeVito is?

Oh, I'm going to say 78.

Anyone else?

I would have guessed 70, 76, 77. Yeah, somewhere mid, somewhere right around there.

Say 80, 81.

Wow.

Yeah, see, I knew he was around my dad.

Good for 81.

I think so.

I think so.

I think so. Secret to aging. Yeah, secret to aging. He's always looked like that. Yeah.

Really quick, really quick to close the loop. Before playing 88 Casey Novak on Law Order, that's the one with the red hair.

Yeah.

Uh, she was guest starred as the perpetrator in season 3, episode 10 in Ridicule. She played Amelia Chase, one of three high-powered individuals accused of the sexual assault and murder of a male stripper.

Wow.

So she was accused.

I don't know if—

I don't remember if she was, you know, the whole thing went through but ended up becoming ADA.

She had murdered a stripper.

You have a list for us?

I think not only do you have a list, I think we have dueling lists.

Dueling top 5 episodes of Always Sunny ever.

Wow.

Well, any— well, any carry over? Do you know if you have the same?

We have not discussed at all, and these are both kind of off the top of our head. Like, I just thought of lines that stand out to me and then looked up the line to try to find the name of the episode, um, or given scenes. But there's so many amazing episodes, I'm like frustrated about the ones I left off of my OLIs.

I would say this before anyone jumps in the comments or whatever, again off of vibes, off the top of your head. By no means the most comprehensive list. If you love this show, you know there are a bajillion great episodes. I could probably do this all over again with a completely different—

that's right, stop trying to hedge that.

I'm not hedging. I just don't want to hear that, oh my God, you love Sonny and you forgot the episode where Mac picks his nose.

I'm like, guys, that's what Sonny fans sound like.

That's what our fans sound like. Ready? Uh, I got some more lies. OLI, the gang gets stranded in the woods. That's the one with Tom Sizemore.

So good.

As a, as a gift. I can't believe you took that one.

OLI, OLI, Dennis and Dee go on welfare.

Oh yeah, that's a good one.

Did somebody get addicted to crack?

Oh, did someone get addicted to crack?

So good.

OLI, Mac and Dennis moved to the suburbs.

That's a good one.

That'll be later on my list. Right. Uh, Oli McPoyle versus Ponderosa, the trial of the century. That has one of my all-time favorite bit performances from Uncle Jack. He's wearing the big hands.

Egregiously big hands.

Uncle Jack might be one of my favorite characters in this.

Incredible side character. I think Always Sunny is the only show that rivals Seinfeld in terms of side characters. Now Uncle Jack gets a deeper plot, like he has more episodes than some of these others, but like the characters that come in are in 4 episodes. Like the waiter who's in 4 or 5 episodes, the waitress.

Well, the other crazy thing— I know we're pausing in the middle, but like all the characters, actors who will go on and become huge— oh yeah, right. So the McPoyle Maureen Ponderosa, who is Ivan Reitman's daughter, right? Like, just the list goes on and on of all these people.

Rob Thomas.

Yeah, exactly. Tom Sizemore.

But yeah, Jimmy Simpson is a gigantic—

he's a massive star.

Massive star.

But will still come back to do Sonny.

Led Westworld.

Yep.

Will still come back to do Sonny.

All of them.

Yeah. Well, not all of them. Maureen Ponderosa is dead. Spoiler alert. Well, fair. OLI, the Aluminum Monster versus Fatty Magoo. That's the one where Dee is shoplifting. She tries to shoplift the $700 shoes, runs out, trips headfirst into the car. That was not a stunt double, and that was not like a Styrofoam car. She actually got injured doing that, and that's what made them stop letting her do her own stunts.

She fractured her back. Yep. Just doing a stunt because she went that hard. They couldn't even believe it. Uh, Frank's Pretty Woman. And when talking about— this is still OLI— uh, when talking about doing crack, uh, Dennis says to Mac, "Oh, you've never done crack? You are going to love it." It's the best delivery.

OLI, Mac's Big Break. This is the one where they start a podcast and Dennis goes, "Two wars!" I can't believe I left that one off my list. Two wars!

Uh, OLI.

We're still in OLI. Yep.

Reynolds vs. Reynolds, the serial defense.

This is OLI.

Science is a liar.

This is OLI.

That's how many good episodes.

Greatest episodes.

I know.

Look, you're gonna—

not gonna believe my next OLI.

Take a break, you get your shit together.

Oh no, this is the last OLI I have before the top 5. OLI, the very first episode. Oh boy, because they use the N-word.

Yeah, I'm gonna make you— appropriately, I'm gonna make you even more mad. My last OLI is the Dennis System.

This guy sucks.